Happy Sad Confused - Stephen Graham

Episode Date: February 24, 2025

Stephen Graham didn't think he'd know the likes of Robert DeNiro and Bruce Springsteen but a lot of talent and hard work has given him the life he couldn't even have dreamed of. He joins Josh to talk about his journey from a working class kid to the heights of film and TV. UPCOMING EVENT! Maya Hawke -- February 10th in NYC -- Tickets here! SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! Quince -- Go to Quince.com/happysadco for 365 day returns and free shipping! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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It's mental. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now. Hey guys, I'm Josh, and welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today's main event is Mr. Stephen Graham, a leading man, a character, actor, a guy that can do virtually anything.

This is a fun one, a great storyteller, a great actor, a first-time guest on Happy, Sad, Confused. Before we get to Stephen, though, a couple things to mention. As always, we're churning out great conversation, hopefully after a great conversation and there's a lot to enjoy on our Patreon page if you want to support what we do here that helps us make more so if you can go over to patreon.com slash happy say i confuse their different tiers at different levels hopefully something for everybody there but we offer tons of cool stuff early access discount codes to live events

exclusive merch autographed posters that and much much more speaking of the live events we have a cool one March 20th with Nathan Lane, star of stage and screen, first-time guest on Happy, Say I Confused. If you're in New York City around then, come on out, say hi. It's going to be at Symphony Space, a beautiful theater on the Upper West Side. And there are lots more live events coming. Stay tuned. Watch this space and watch the Patreon space for more announcements. Okay, main event. Stephen Graham, you know from a thousand different things. I don't even know where to begin. His work with Shane Meadows, this is England, his work with Martin Scorsese, whether it's

the Irishman, Gangs of New York, Boardwalk Empire, this guy's always working. Peaky Blinders, the show, he's going to be in the movie. He's in the new Springsteen movie that's coming out later this year. He's always in high demand, and justifiably so, because he kind of can do anything. He's also, by the way, and you'll hear in this conversation, very much responsible for our beloved Jody Comer's assent. spotting her talent very early on. So just a good dude who loves movies as much as I think I do

and all of you guys watching or listening. So I think you're going to really love hearing from him. His enthusiasm is palpable and clearly just a good guy. If anything, this is just one of those conversations where I wish we had three hours because there's a lot. We barely touched on a few of his projects. So like there's going to be a lot more, hopefully more conversations with Stephen. I want to mention, though,

his two current projects, check out if you are a fan. A Thousand Blows, which is on Hulu in the States, on Disney Plus elsewhere. It comes from Stephen Knight, of course, of Peaky Blinders fame and is a real fascinating story taking place in 1880s in London with Stephen as a bare-knuckle boxer. Yeah, intense stuff, but really well done. And then adolescence, talk about well done. This is a four-part series on Netflix coming in mid-March. really juicy material shot in single takes each episode amazing about a family a son who has been

accused of murder at his elementary school is a primary school so intense stuff but very well done great acting throughout and great you know intense smart filmmaking so put those both on your list adolescence and a thousand blows and in the meantime enjoy this chat with truly one of our greats working today, Mr. Stephen Graham. Stephen Graham's on the podcast. This is a gentleman that went from being like, oh, he's, wait, I recognize that guy to being, oh, he's that guy for me and many, many people. He's a very busy man.

Thank you so much for taking the time today to catch up. I really appreciate it. Thanks for having me, Josh. Thank you very much. So we were just talking about the workload, the good stuff. I mean, you have not one but two great shows. to talk about right now, it does feel like, I mean, looking at the resume and you've been, you've been working for a bit, there's a strong work ethic to Stephen Graham. Is that something

that's been there from the start? Where does that come from? I think that kind of, you know, that comes from my upbringing. You know, I'm a working class lad from a council estate from a block of flats in a place called Kirby, do you know what I mean? And kind of that, that fulfillment of the dream that I had when I was a young lad who always wanted to be an actor, you know what I mean? But by certain, the kind of environment where I come from,

it's kind of not perceived as something that is achievable. However, I was very lucky. There was a wonderful man who lived across the road called Drew Schofield, who was an actor and was on the telly in a great program that I used to watch when I was a young lad called Scully.

So what kind of happened to me from an early age was I saw that it was achievable because Drew was doing it and he lived across the road from my nana and he was on the telly and seeing Drew as a role model as an actor who showed that it was achievable for me and I've always been of that philosophy

if you can see it, you can do it. And then for me it's always, Josh, if I'm completely honest, it's always about the script and the project, you know, the script and the director and me and Hannah have been very fortunate where we've managed to carve some really nice productions out of later. So it's, yeah, it's wonderful.

It's wonderful. I love to hear you. you talk about sort of like seeing early on like an example of what what it could be and seeing someone like Drew because like your name has actually come up on this podcast quite a bit from a number of actors most significantly I think of Jody Comer who's been a frequent guest on on happy said confused and she is always very open and talking about I mean we you know who knows it might have happened in a different way but you you were the one that kind of really connected her very early on so do we have you to thank for Jody Comer's career?

Yes, very sweet of Jodie. She's wonderful. She's like my little sister. And that's very, very lovely what she says. You know, I do believe hopefully, no matter what her talent would have shone through. But for that particular instance, we were doing a little program called The Good Cop. I think it was on BBC back in a day. I think she may have been 17, maybe 18 at the time, possibly. And we had two scenes.

And, you know, I met her on the day and I was like, hello, I'm Stephen. and my character was kind of a horrible man, kind of very grotesque, you know what I mean? And it was kind of, and he was meant to grab hold of it in a certain area. And I just wanted to make sure this was before the days of... Intimacy coordinators and that. Yes, yeah, yeah. Before all of that time, you know,

and I just said to Jody, look, I want to make sure that you're comfortable. Is it okay if I put my hand there and the camera will think it's there? And she was like, yeah, and she was really sweet and really look. And I was like, okay, I just want to make sure you're comfortable and you feel safe. And then, you know, what I'm about to do, but just let's make sure that you're fine with it and you're happy. And she was like, yeah, yeah, not a problem. We had a really nice little conversation. And then we rehearsed the scene.

And as soon as we rehearsed the scene, I just went, see, I've just been working with another young actor on Ashley Walter's piece that I think I'm doing something for Ashley at the moment. Ashley's director and a film. and I worked with a young actor on that. And first and foremost, I think some people get a bit freaked out occasionally sometimes with me in rehearsals because I'm a fan. I love acting.

I'm an acting fan. So when I'm in a rehearsal process, I'm kind of 50% of the character and 50% Stephen. So if you do something that excites me, I'm like, wow, that's brilliant. You're, oh, lovely. And people kind of go,

well, what's, where's he at? And Jody did that. And I just remember thinking, she is unbelievable she's absolutely fantastic the way she dives straight into that moment and I was a playing a like I said a kind of gruesome man

but you can't personally I feel that you can't play status status has to be given to you by the other actors you know what I mean in many ways and Eddie Marsden does that beautifully and amazingly in a film called Gangster Number One with Paul Bettney

a scene in the kitchen so she tapped straight into that kind of quality and I was just blown away by her and then I just I asked her a couple of questions afterwards and you know I just said who's who's your agent what kind of work have you been going up for and she said not a lot and she said the quality of one or two things and no disrespect to the people that do them jobs I just thought she was she was capable of a lot more yeah and I had a words with my agents and then I just you know I said you need to take this girl on she's phenomenal and Jody was actually I found Jody and she was on the train going to

London for an audition and I said don't go for that audition go and meet my agent and she was like well what do you mean I was like trust me honestly trust me if you if you if you trust me at all just do me this one thing go and meet my agent don't go for that audition and she did and she met Jane and Jane fell in love with her and the rest is history I'm talk about like a generational talent I'm sure you saw her on stage and prima facie and like all the stuff she's done like it's it's just next level so you have a career as a talent scout if the acting thing doesn't work out is what I'm saying. Yeah, that's the nice one, Josh.

Yeah, I love that, yeah. So you refer a bit to your upbringing. What did, what did friends and family make of young Stephen? I take it you were, I mean, were you outgoing? Did you have kind of a performative gene that was very obvious from the start? Not really. I come from a very big family, lots of cousins and lots of aunties and lots of uncles. I think my mom is from a family of 10, so there was a very big family.

And one of the key things was I have any ability to make my nana laugh. Once I knew I could make my nana laugh, that was my little way in. Do you know what I mean? And I used to do some crazy impressions, people like Margaret Thatcher and Idi Armin. Don't ask me where these noises, these voices came from. But that was the kind of thing I used to do. And I'd make me nana a jambotti because me and my mom lived with my grandma for a while. And I'd make my name a jambutti and I'd come in and I'd do all different silly voices and stuff.

and I think that was possibly one of the beginnings of oh oh I can make people smile and you know this I can make Manana laugh and then it was just kind of at school being at being doing at the school what was really beautiful was I went to a lovely lovely junior school called Ovidale and we had a wonderful headmaster

an amazing head teacher called Mr Facket and what he used to do was each class would do a performance like one every three or four months. So every Friday, in assembly, we used to have assembly every Friday. Well, we had it every day, but Friday, each different, a different class within the whole school

will be performing. And he saw it as a way of, you know, young kids being able to express themselves, that kind of getting over fears and, you know, that kind of insecurities that we have and shine us. And it was a beautiful learning too that we had within that school. And that was the moment where we did a play then. we did a play called Treasure Island.

And I played Jim Hawkins. And it was, Drew Schofield came to watch the show. And, you know, like I said, Drew was a huge star at the time in many ways. And a wonderful actor and a beautiful man. And he lived across the road from a grandma, like I said. And he came, thank you. He came to watch the play because his nephew was in it. And after the performance, he said to my mom and dad,

your son's really talented. I think he's got a lot of talent maybe it should be something you should look at and we did and we put our names down and we went to the Everyman New Theatre that was the first kind of thing I did but my mum was always so supportive and you know I'm pops

my dad they were so supportive from the very beginning completely and I've said this before to the extent when I was about 15 and I'd been going to everyone and I said to my dad I think I want to do this now dad I think this is what I want to do and he was like, okay, come on, let's go

and we went, you may remember Josh, you might be of a certain age do you remember video shops like Blockbuster and things like that? Yeah. Remember going to Blockbuster and you'd be in there for like two hours. It's my happy place, wandering those aisles for hours, yeah. We'd got it just to choose a film.

You'd be there for hours, wouldn't you? You'd read the back, you'd like, look at the fault, yeah, it was amazing. And me and my dad went to the video shop. This was even pre-blockbuster, I think. And we got a couple of films. He got The Deer Hunter, Taxi Driver and The Godfather. And he was like, right, if we're going to do it and we're going to watch these.

This is the films that we're going to watch. And I'll show you know how it's done properly. And that was kind of how my, I suppose, love affair for acting started, but also my appreciation for those great films. You know what I mean? And I think a couple of weeks later, we watched like a razor head. You're saying all the right filmmakers. You're speaking my language.

You're doing good. sour we watched we watched i remember watching yo jimbo going oh my god dad this is unbelievable yeah and that's kind of how it began if i'm honest for you you you i mean you truly i mean you are carrying on the lineage by the caliber filmmakers you're working with and they obviously gravitate towards you as much as you gravitate towards them so and i love to hear the enthusiasm you are as much a fan as you are a practitioner of all this and that's it's very uh very endearing um it can't be strange don't get me wrong it can be strange on set when because when when we're we did, I know we're going to talk about

adolescence, but there's a particular scene, there's a particular moment within the whole thing. And I hadn't really seen him until rehearsals, and it's one of the lads who plays the police officer, and he's going through the procedural elements of like, right, can I have you left,

your first finger, second finger, and just this whole demeanour. And as we were in rehearsal, and Jack was there as well, the writer, Jack got, seen me do this and Phil our wonderful director as well, and Jeff the amazing writer. And I just kind of went, wow, you're brilliant time.

Yeah. And he looked at me and he got really shy. And I was like, sorry, man. I just think you're amazing, just what you're doing. And he was like, oh. And then I didn't realize until like a day later, Joe, Joe Johnson, our beautiful, wonderful producer, she said to me, you do realize that you're talking to him like, that blew his mind.

And I was like, what do you mean, Joe? What are you on about? And she said, well, I had a really, lovely conversation with him the other week when we started. And you're the reason why he's an actor today. I was like, what? No chance! And she was like, honestly, this is England.

He watched it and he was like, he saw someone who spoke similar to him. It was from a similar background and he's followed your career. And I can't quite get over that sometimes, Josh. It blows my mind. You know what I mean? It really does. Well, you're having I'm sure the reverse of that working

with, you know, Pacino calling you out and that kind of thing. And that's you know, growing up watching all the Lumet films, I'm sure, and then to be a equal at the table with him and him saying flattering things, again, must be mind-blowing. Yeah, completely. Wait,

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I wish I could spend all day with you instead. Uh, Dave, you're off mute. Hey, happens to the best of us. Enjoy some goldfish cheddar crackers. Goldfish have short memories. Be like goldfish. We'll circle back to the early goings because I do want to give love to both of these projects.

And you reference, let's start with adolescence because I was telling you before, this is an ambitious, really fascinating piece of work. And both of these projects you're promoting today actually, I don't know if it's a coincidence, but they are projects that you are very creatively, you know, a part of behind and in front of the camera. Is that something that's become a priority in recent years

to kind of have a seat at the table as a writer or executive producer on projects like A Thousand Blues and Adolescence? It was never, great question. It was never really the aim. It was just kind of the way things worked. We set up our little production company, me and Hannah. I think it was just before COVID. and it was kind of we wanted to be a part of trying to create stories that we don't see that often

or maybe that people are not really not represented as much so to speak and you know and I'm not look I'm not standing on speaker's corner and I'm not waving a flag and I'm not I'm not on you know I'm not shouting from my soapbox but that kind of working class stories or people from minority I feel that sometimes those stories are overlooked and we don't nurture those stories enough or we don't spend enough time really cultivating those stories by producing writers from those backgrounds or giving them the opportunity to be able to tell stories

that they can identify it and represent and show a different side to these people. So we set it up to hopefully just be able to be a part of the process of telling some stories. And it just kind of happened the way it did. First of all, we got involved with Boiling Point, the film and the TV series, which happened really organically.

Do you know what I mean? Completely organically. And then after that point, a thousand blows was kind of brewing in the background. It started from, I did a wonderful series that I really love, a little comedy thing, called Cold 404 with Danny Mays and it was brilliant. We had such a great

time. But Tom and Sam who were our partners on a thousand blows who were from Water and Power. Tom approached me on set one day and said look, we've got this possible thing we'd like to develop and we'd really love you and Hannah to be a part of it, your production company but also you as one of the actors because

we've got a photograph and we also have three paragraphs about these people who existed at the time. And the And I was like, okay, don't worry. Send it to us, Tom, please, and Hannah will have a look. Because that's my thing to everyone. She gets sent so many emails because I go, yeah, sure, send it.

And then I'll have a look. So she shifts through thousands of things, bless her. Thankfully, unfortunately. But Tom sent it, and the photograph arrived, and Hannah went to me, wow, look at this. And the photograph of Hezekiah, I have never seen, especially in that time period, a photograph of a black man who looked so regal.

so elegant, so graceful, so full of poise and so full of dignity and yet seem to capture the essence of humility as well. I just, I was intrigued with that story straight away. We both were, we were like, wow, how's he got to this position? What's happened to you? How's this man? You know, what, what is this story? And then that's where Hannah said, I know he's going to tell this. And I was like, who? And she said, Steve Knight, who you know is a prolific writer. And I was like, love, don't be silly. And she was like, I'm telling, I was like, no, no chance. And she went, when I'm talking to Julie, who's his assistant, about you,

and they want you to do picky blinders. And, you know, we've already been discussing the character. And because I like to get as much information as I can about the character. So Steve has given Julie a lot of stuff to give to Hannah. And that's how we kind of develop this relationship, them too had. And then Hannah sent it, and she was like, I know he's going to love it. She sent it. And I swear to God, but in three days, he sent a wonderful email back saying,

I want to be a part of this. I want to tell this story. Let's set up a Zoom. So we had the kind of context of Hezekiah and that story of a man who came from Jamaica after the Rebellion of Moran Bay and things like that. He came with this dream and this aim and this desire to be a lion tainment. And he ended up falling into the world of bare-knuckle fighting

and then he became a boxer. And in the great respects, you can't, Steve always says something which really sticks with me, is you can't write better than fiction sometimes because it's there, do you know what I mean? It's historical content. And then we also had the two brothers, Sugar and Trickel, who I play and so does the wonderful James Nelson Joyce,

who's another lad from Liverpool, who I kind of got with my agents as well, the way I helped with Spotting the gorgeous Jody, maybe I did a little bit as that work as well. That was a really interesting story. we met James in and I know there's many chicken shops out there but we met James in Nando's years and years ago and he came up to me and Hannah and he was like I'm a big you know I'm a big fan

Stephen I went to college or one of the reasons why I was an actor and I was like oh nice one lad thank you very much and we took a photo and Hannah said give you an email and we'll keep in touch and he did and then the next minute we were on time together I didn't realize he'd auditioned and he got the part and I was like you're the kid from And he's like, yeah, that's me, that's me. I was like, oh, wow, mate.

And we kept in touch and I just thought he was a wonderful talent. So again, I had a conversation with Jane and then he ended up going with Jane and stuff and things have progressed. And now, you know, he's forged out his own wonderful career. He's doing brilliant, he's just been the lead in a big BBC production.

And I knew he was the right person for my brother for this, but he still had to go through the audition process. Do you know what I mean? We had lots of people in and he managed to get that role. But we only had these two paragraphs of Tricul and Sugar and obviously Hezekiah. And then Steve, which is the genius of Steve Knight, he kind of, he had this wonderful idea as well to bring Mary Carr and the 40 elephants into it because he was looking for the right vehicle to tell this story.

So we had these kind of, this trifecta of these three fantastic characters who existed in the time and walked the cobbles on the streets of this. this London that we're talking about. And the genius that is Steve, he created this wonderful world and just put them in the environment. And then he found stories from newspapers and from historical content that these people were involved in or were similar. Other people may have been involved in similar stories.

And he just combined them together and created this wonderful world, which is a thousand loads. I was going to say it has a bit of that kind of vibe of, you know, peaky, of course. Even I think of gangs of New York, honestly, kind of like that. kind of like, this feels like science fiction. It's so like alien, but it's so specific. And as you said, it's so, it has to be true or elements have to be true because who would make these disparate elements and combine them in this way.

I've seen the first couple episodes, you have quite an entrance. At first I thought I was seeing your buddy Tom Hardy from the back. It was like, Bain was entering the building. Oh, wow. Nice one. Yeah. Yeah, that was, that was a hell of an expedience in itself. Yeah.

I mean, are you the type of actor? I mean, you're obviously in hell of a shape for this one. Like, I mean, that builds from the outside in, that, like, physicality, how your exterior informs the character. Is that important to you generally? Specifically, in this case, I would imagine it's important. Yeah. Yeah, you're right, especially in this case,

because we had six months, so primarily what I wanted to do was to get in the best shape I possibly could to look like the man who I was playing. Do you know what I mean? Because for me, sugar is very much kind of bygones of age, gone by, do you know what I mean, those kind of men. And what I did was, you know, I'm not the tallest. So I'm short and stocky, and we wanted to have that kind of like little bulldog element

to him. Right. And for the physical aspect of the style, I concentrated on how we would make him as a, what his style would be as a fighter. So with my boxing coach, Graham, he was a good friend, we really worked hard on kind of that Mike Tyson element of like body shots and great hooks and uppercuts. But then we also watched a lot of Lenny McLean, who was a bare-knuckle fighter and was a big Bruce brawl of her man.

And we kind of combined both of his, both of their styles to create this kind of fighting content. And my trainer, Rob, was fantastic, absolutely fantastic. He was brilliant. He honestly got, he pushed me and he pushed me in. And we wanted to reach this physical condition, which wasn't like. a normal it's not a modern physique because it's much more kind of you know shoulders and traps and arms that's what we were going for that kind of man who lifts beer battles and you know and

and and and hammers and it's just just a worker a really hard worker that's developed this great physique um and kind of that was how we worked on it and normally i for one of my great things that i love to tap into a character with is the shoes i love to find his shoes because they can alter They can alter the walk completely. Do you know what I mean? And that, for me, the physicality aspect of a character is always important. I always like to change my walk or find the walk of the man who I'm playing. To the extent where, you know, sometimes I'll do Hannah Zeddin and the kids, I'll go, right, watch, watch.

They'll be watching the film. And I'll go, pause it, pose it. I'll go, right, this is the walk. What's his thing? And I'll do it. And they're like, yeah, dad, great. And I go, no, no, no, no, is it good? Do you like it?

Yeah, yeah, no, it's great. So that's kind of how I've always based my characters and found my characters. And then I work on the internal work with, you know, the director and with the other actors that I'm sharing the scenes with. Right. Amazing. Okay. Let's give a little love also, adolescence. This is a four-part series for Netflix that you play a dad of a kid in school who's accused of murdering a classmate. And as I said to you before, I mean, this is like, this is, this is meaty, real. I mean, amazing acting throughout and not to mention the ambition of what you're doing here each episode is a oneer is a single shot i don't know if you're stitching stuff or if it's a true oneer but not a show honest i believed it amazing that's an accomplishment so talk to me a little bit about and you

co-wrote this one the high wire act of being i mean i feel tension watching halfway through this you're working with some young performers my god the pressure on them like no one wants to drop the ball, 27 minutes into this extraordinary wunner. But what's it like, what's it like for you, even for you? Are you feeling the pressure? Are you feeling it for your performers? What's, what's it like? Do you know what, Josh?

And I don't mean to sound, I don't want to sound pretentious in any way, shape, or form. But it's possibly the most beautiful, wonderful way of working ever for any actor. Because what it does is it combines both disciplines, I think, uniquely, which I have never had the experience of being able to do that. So it captures and encompasses that truth and reality and that instantaneous kind of in the moment response of theater. Right. Do you know what I mean?

Because it's live. We're there. We're in it right there and then. But it also has that beauty of filmmaking because that minimalistic naturalism, you know, because you don't have to project up to people on Rozette, row seven stories high.

You don't have to do that, but you still have that same feeling internally and that excitement and that kind of driving force that you do when you're on stage. And also in the same respect, we are a company, we're all together. So we all, you know, everybody's looking after each other because nobody, as you rightly said, and I'm glad he said that. I said that. I said, look, when we, I'd be like none of us, there's no poor fucker on, excuse me, for it's okay. Not one of us wants to be the one that drops the ball. Do you know what I mean?

Not one of us. So let's all look after each other. Let's all help each other and let's go on this mission together. It doesn't matter where you are on the call sheet. If you're 12 or number one, if you fuck up, you're fucking up for everybody. Exactly. And that's the thing. Do you know what I mean?

Look, and I managed to kind of, I'd always give a little rally call at the beginning of every, you know what I mean, every day. Well, after we'd finish, because what's beautiful about it is, with the process is, we have, we have three weeks. So we spend a week rehearsing, which is just Phil and the actors. And what was really lucky, we had both writers. We had Jack and myself on set for that whole first week. So we can really look at it and we can really iron everything out.

And we can focus more on nuances or, you know, if certain things aren't working within the elements of the script, we can work on that and we can find a way that we're all comfortable with it. And we're saving the story. So we have a whole week of rehearsing it, which is brilliant. It's absolutely fantastic. You really get to feel it and we really get to explore it as actors. And then the second week, we rehearse with Matt, our amazing DOP, who is just a genius.

He's an absolute genius. Him and his team are absolutely phenomenal. From phenomenal, Josh, honestly. You know, they go from having electric cars and cranes to attach them to a drone. It's unbelievable. stuff he did and his capabilities and his talent is exceptional um so we spend a week choreographing the camera moves with with matt and all of us then you know so it's never they matt and phil work out kind of what is going to happen but then in the same respect when

we're in a room matt never tells you where to go or what to do because that's the joy and the beauty of matt he accommodates the camera to your movements as well um so then we do that for like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. We do that right through to Thursday, taking it nice and slow and steady and, you know, getting it to a really good point. And then on the Friday, we just have a goal. We literally do a dress rehearsal.

We get in costume and we see how it's going to work and we do a take, which is for free, and we just see how it goes. And then we'll have notes and stuff like that, or we'll line out the things that don't quite work. And then when it comes to the week of shooting, we have, we do two takes a day. So you get ready, you do one take in the morning,

you have lunch, you get to do, and then you do one take in the afternoon. And that's kind of the process and the excitement is, like I said, those live performances, to the extent where in episode two, because you'll have seen episode two. I've seen that one, yeah, yeah.

Well, episode two, we got to, I think because we had a couple of stops. So initially you're supposed to do maybe 10 takes throughout the whole week. We had a couple of stops and a couple of camera glitches. and things and you know cars not starting or something like that so we had we ended up getting to take 13 uh for episode and and also what you have wonderful toby from netflix who's one about

exec producers Toby came up with an idea on the wednesday on the wednesday bear in mind Josh Wednesday of shooting bear in mind Toby had this genius idea but on the wednesday of shooting he said oh wouldn't it be really great if we you know as we fly up in the sky, we'd run, and we could see Eddie again. And it was like, what? He's like, yeah, be great there. Do you think we could do it? We're like, oh, for a fault.

Where were you on Monday? Yeah. And so it was now, shit. Okay, so we had to go, no, it might have been Tuesday, he said, because then I think we tried it on Wednesday, and the wind was not brilliant, and then Thursday. So it come down, we've got an alternative, and it comes down, Josh, to the final take,

the 13th take on the Friday I'm sweating in New York hearing this yeah and it was amazing because we're all just locked in and a wonderful Ashley was phenomenal the kids were unbelievable every one of them all of them Hannah

Joe they were all brilliant every single one of them were fantastic and it just it just glided and literally when I say glided to the extent where the drone's coming down and I have to get out in the van and it just felt really smooth and really nice cohesion

and it really, it seemed to work beautifully. And then he went, and cut. And it was like, oh my God. So the take that you see is the very final take we ever did. It was that one chance to get it really right. And that's what lives on, you see. Well, it's a wonderful process. And it's the most zen I've ever been as an actor

because you're locked in. You're completely locked in. I mean, as someone, yeah, who grew up both loving theater, but also on the film side, like watching, like De Palma movie. and discovering, like, those amazing oner's and just, like, what cinema could do. This checks all the boxes. So, congratulations. And, yeah, I would imagine that.

That's like, that's an exhale. That's a beautiful moment when you know you've got it in the can. The white chocolate macadamia cream cold burb from Starbucks is made just the way you like it. Handcrafted cold foam topped with toasted cookie crumble. It's a sweet summer twist. on iced coffee. Your cold brew is ready at Starbucks. Goodbye, summer movies, hello fall.

I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the ultimate movie podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution

in one battle after another, Timothy Salome playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos's Begonia. Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar. In The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up

again, plus Daniel DeLuess's return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about two. Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2, and Edgar writes The Running Man starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and

YouTube. God, there are like literally dozens of movies I'd like to talk to you about, but let me to ask you this first. Like, when did you exhale and feel like the career was safe? Because I heard you talking even post This Is England, which obviously was a huge one for you, that you still even post that the career was in question and you questioned whether you were going to be able to make a go of it, which seems incomprehensible to most people probably. Yeah, after we finish this, England, you know, I think it was seven and eight months before I got a job. And I think, and I, and I

was, I was ready to stop acting and, you know, I was going to become a youth worker. But like I said earlier on, the support of my mom and my dad and Hannah, of course, my rock and very close friends and family, you know, they were like, no, you're not, you're not doing that. You need to carry on. But it literally came down to the wine. I was going to go for an interview to be a youth worker because I worked with the kids in our local village and making films and stuff like that, only voluntary but I really enjoyed it and it was like okay well look if I can't be an actor this is what I'm going to do and literally I think the day of the interview I got an audition I can't remember what the audition was for but I got an audition for something else and again that sliding doors

moment I went for the audition and thankfully I got the part and then I think it might have not been too long after that where I got a call from Marty and asked me to come and be one of the players in Borde Walk Empire, which was fantastic. Did you ever talk to De Niro about sharing the Al Capone role? He obviously played it in Untouchables. Did that ever come up? We did, yeah. You know, I was doing it.

I was over here. I was filming a thing with Shane Meadows, which was a wonderful experience called The Virtues. It was brilliant. I loved it. It was such a powerful piece for me and, you know, such an honor to be able to tell that story with Shane, who is one of my favorite directors of all time. And kind of, it was a, I said,

lads, I've got to go to New York in the weekend. They were like, what? I said to Shane and Mark, Mark Herbert, our wonderful producer from Walker. I said, I've got to go to New York. I'm flying on Friday after work. I said, I'm flying on the Friday, but I'll be back. Like, you know, I had to be back for work on the Monday, I think. And they were like, okay, all right,

wow, this is amazing. And I literally flew in, got off out of the airplane, into a car, boom, straight to Marty's house. because it needed to be signed off by Bob, who was one of the execs. And, you know, you can imagine, he's one of my all-time heroes. So just the fact that I'm off to New York, look, I'm a kid from a normal background, you know what I mean, I'm getting on a plane, going to New York, going from that, and Scorsese, he's out, meeting Robert DeNiro.

I mean, come on, what's going on? It's mental. Who's already played that role in the, amazing role in a different incarnation, too. Yes. Yeah. I mean, like, yeah. So I was sat there and, you know, and he comes in with his paper under his arm and it was lovely and it was, it was, it was wonderful. It was one of, you know, it was a joyous experience. And Marty went, oh, yeah, you know, you two got self-incombe and Bob was like, yeah, anyway,

you know, you both played Al Capone. And Bob went, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you were great, you were fantastic. And I was like, no, no, you were great. You were fantastic. You were amazing. Yeah, it was, it was a, it was a wonderful moment. You've, yeah, I mean, an amazing performance. Some of my favorite actors, Michael Shannon is always someone I've long been obsessed with. He's been on the pot a lot, what an amazing man. Like, you worked with some of the most, like, enigmatic, fascinating actors, not just in talent, but also kind of like, there's an aura about some of the folks.

I mentioned Tom Hardy, who I find, like, just endlessly fascinating. You know, Daniel Day Lewis, obviously. I mean, I don't know. Did you ever meet Daniel Day Lewis, or did you only meet Bill the Butcher in the course of making Gangs of New York? What was really beautiful for me is I got to know Daniel about two weeks before we started filming because he was training at Chinichita Studios where we were getting ready to, you know, we did make-up testing, costumes and stuff like that. And it was a big up even and a big move that me and Hannah both gave up.

We gave up our little flat in Beck and moved to a place called Via Marguta in right in the center, right by the Spanish steps in Rome. So we were there for the duration And I met him in the morning And we used to do a little bit of boxing and training together He's a wonderful man And I'll just, I'll never forget it From the first day of cinematography

I'm sat in the makeup department And he comes in in his full regalia In his whole costume And he literally put his hand on my shoulder I'll never forget it, it just sends chills down my spine He looked at me in the mirror. So I was looking at him in the mirror. And he just said to me, from now on, I call you Shane

and you call me Bill. And I just went, okay, okay, Bill. And that was it. And I taught, because when I was a student, when I was at uni, we used to play a game called Shitters. It's a card game. It's a great card game. And I started teaching them all out to play.

Leo and Jim and Edie. and the rest of the cast started to teach them out to play shit-ed and Daniel came over and he went is the screen that you play in sharing and I was like, I was called shit-ed-bilt and he was like, I won't teach me how to play this game I was like, all right, yeah, so we're showing up

and then like we do a scene and it'd be a big, mass, important scene and that and then he'd come over with his pipe and his little, he always had a metal mug with his tea and things in, he'd come over with his pipe and his metal mug and he'd just go, shank, And I'd look and go, yeah, yeah, Bill.

And he goes, fancy a game of Shibhead. And I'd be like, yeah, sure, okay, all right, let's play. Let's get the boys together. Wow. Me and Hannah used to get, because we lived there, me and Hannah used to get sent. There's a program over here called Match of the Day, which tells you about all a football that's happened, you know, on that Saturday. And we were like a week behind, so we get sent, we get it sent every week.

And Daniel loves his foot. He's a big football fan. So I used to go, I used to go, I used to. to give him the video after we'd watch it. And he'd take it away and then he'd go, hey, Manchester United Stuffed you guys the other day, huh? It was amazing. It was great.

It was wonderful. He's just that I was in awe of his Britain. And he's, you know, just to really learn so much from being a mess of within a role and diving straight in was wonderful. I'm sure you could write a book just from that experience. I mean, I made a short when I was in. in Rome, I made sure to visit Chinatito one day. Just, I mean, that's history in and of itself.

I mean, Marty, the Pet Project, the Leo, all of it, unbelievable. I've heard, and your Bill the Butcher is amazing. I mean, you are very good at impressions. Do you have a favorite co-star director to flow into? I don't really, I'm not really good at impressions. If I was as a kid, I don't really do them, but it just, I think it was just the sound of him

and that whole Bill thing. which was amazing, yeah. I'm sure you have a Marty, you have a Leo, you have a Pacino, I'm guessing. I don't really. Not really. No, I do. Similar voices. Fair enough, fair enough.

I want to mention a couple upcoming things because you are a busy man. You worked on the Springsteen movie, which I'm very, very curious about. Are you the dad? Are you Bruce's dad in that one? I do, yeah. Yeah, I would say Bruce's dad.

And that was a wonderful thing that came through Scott Cooper who's a wonderful man and absolutely a beautiful man and a fantastic director and we were looking to work together for a while. I was supposed to do something for him a long time ago

due to work commitments and other things it was unable to happen but we spent a lot of time having conversations about this particular role and it just unfortunately it didn't pan out for me that way but he did say look we won't work together at at some point. And then I got a phone call from him. And he just said, look, I've, I've wrote

this script with Bruce and I've got this really nice piece. And when I was thinking and when I was writing about the father, you came into my head, which was a huge on it. Do you know what I mean? And anybody that knows that, I mean, I'm a big Bruce fan, knows anything about him and his history with his dad. I mean, that, I would imagine, it's a very significant part, this relationship in the film. Huge. Yeah. Yeah. It really is, Josh. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's integral. There's not loads to do and there's not huge scenes but it's integral to the core

of who he is and his story. And when he said that to me and I was like yeah, being on it, I read the script, the script is fantastic. And Jeremy Alan White, who I'm a huge fan of. I think he's a wonderful actor. He's an amazing actor. He's brilliant. He's like

to me, he's that new wave of like Pacino's and De Niro's of today, you know what I mean? Him and Timothy Jeremy, I just think that I would stand in the both of them. And that's kind of, they're that new ilk coming through from America for me. And I just think they're wonderful. So to work with someone like him as well was a joy and an honour. But also what Scott said to me as well was a lot of my stuff would be with young Bruce. And that was joyous. You know, the stuff in the 50s, that was absolutely joyous.

And to try and find this man who was, no, he was an alcoholic. He was a man. He was a man. depressive. He suffered from schizophrenia. He wasn't well. He wasn't a well man. And to be able to try and tap in and tell that story for me was a huge on it. And then to meet Bruce. I was going to say, it seems like he was on set quite a bit. So yeah, what's that like? He was. Yeah, he was. And it was just, I mean, he sent me a text, which, you know, it's very personal. It was just so beautiful. But for me to be able to to do, justice to, oh, the like one thing, for me to be able to do justice to

what was on that page and for him to say to me that, you know, I'd encapsulated the presence and the order of his father was, was a huge on it. It really was, and you couldn't get any bigger compliment, you know what I mean? And Bruce is, I mean,

let's face it, you know, and the same milk is the Nero and Pacino for me. He's an icon. Yeah. He's a huge icon. But again, like both of those men as well, he has such humility and such, such dignity and such grace, but his humility, I was so touched by his humility, so touched by it. Yeah, I got, one of the highlights in my career was visiting his, his home in Jersey and interviewing him there. And my God, like, what he has contributed

to my life and like anybody my age and under, it's just, like, he's, he's the real deal. He really is, isn't he, Josh? Yeah, yeah. And it's not, when else you're saying it, I don't think, yeah, he really is. And he's, he's iconic. For Christ's sake, he's iconic. And he's texting you. You're living the dream, man. I know, I know, that's one of those moments again,

like I said to you earlier on. Sorry, I'll just try to put his light back on. Yeah, thanks. For the surreal kind of, for me, oh, wait on, yeah, for me, that whole kind of, Bruce Springsteen sent me a text. I can't get over it.

It's like, mad. It's really mad. Yeah, who is that for you? Is that? Because I've had this conversation with folks, like, who is the person that when you get a text from in your life? Because you probably got a bunch that still breaks your brain in half. How do I know this person? How does this person know me?

I think it was the Bruce one for me. Because and how that came about as well, he was like, because he, we were on set and we were just talking. And he said, I'm playing Liverpool. I'm playing. I'm playing.

I went, yeah, you're playing at Anfield, aren't you? And he was like, yeah. He went, you want to go? He's kidding me, I'd love to come. And he went, give you your phone. And I was like, what? And he went, gives you, I went, and I got my phone. I was like, yeah, and he went, right, there's my number. And I was like, thank you. But then you know, when you don't want to text them, they give you your number and

you don't want to text them. It's like, nah, I'm never going to text them. And then the next minute, I think that same night, ping, and I've gone, oh shit, shit. And it was Bruce. Does it just say Bruce or the whole name? I've put it's, I've put the whole name just, it says, but yeah, it's Bruce. And I was like, oh, shit, that's Bruce. And it was like, hey, lovely, great team today.

Well done. Lovely, lovely torrentice. Can't wait. Yeah, see you next week. And I was like, and then I'm like, oh, shit, no, I respond. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, brilliant.

So, yeah, it was mine. Yeah, it's like calling back the girlfriend at 15 years old. Like, what do I say? It's like you're back to that kid, yeah, right? Yeah. Yeah. That panic is. Peaky Blinders, what was the experience like?

Amazing, amazing. Is it going to feel different than the series? I mean, it's obviously a film. You know, it's going to have a different scope, I would imagine, a little bit, or? It's a great script. Again, look, and I'm just being completely honest, to be asked to be in Peaky Blinders in that final series for me was a huge on it. But again, one of them moments where Killing to me is phenomenal.

he's phenomenal he's exceptional he's absolutely exceptional and like I said I'm a huge fan a huge fan of Killians but especially the you know the series

I was a big fan of the series but Killian I have to me he's one of the actors I've watched his career from the get-go as well do you know what I mean from the very beginning so to just be in his company

and to really spend time with him and get to know him little bit was in absolute joy it was a little bit kind of i was like is killing on set can i go on me you know i was i was a bit of a fan boy um and what was really sweet was for me is that he was a bit of a fan boy as well i'm sure we just sat there having a little you know a little fan moment but um watching him on set as well how he just the maces and becomes tommy is brilliant uh and i did catch myself kind of steam in rearsal again like i said in rehearsal I catch myself watching him going

Oh wow he's brilliant Is they brilliant Look at that Lord he's doing it And it's like oh shit No I'm in the scene with him Wake up come on You gotta get yourself together Get in it with him

Yeah sorry go ahead It's a great That was the series But the film itself is It's a really good film It's solid The script was brilliant The director was fantastic

And I think what Killian's brought To the Sable again Is amazing And to have Barry Keio Yeah Who to me is a powerhouse. Yeah.

He's a powerhouse. So I think, yeah, hopefully I can't wait to see what it looks like, but I should imagine it will do really well. Here's the one filmmaker I'm surprised has alluded you. Tarantino needs to get on it for the 10th film because I feel like back at, if Reservoir Dogs was being made today, you're part of that ensemble. Like, you're, you're one of his guys. I feel like you're destined to be one of his guys.

Have you ever crossed paths with? I haven't, Josh, but if you should throw in a good word, I really appreciate it. I will. He's done the podcast a couple times. I'll do it. yeah please i mean yeah i i did say to i think i did say to leo i remember saying to leo if he does another one please have a word for me see if he can throw me name in the an he's like of course i will of course i will so fingers crossed you never know oh you're a busy guy you got a lot going let me

end with this this is the happy second fuse profoundly random questions a little more rapid fire for you uh dogs or cats which do you don't oh no but our cats lovely though that's okay but we got the truth It was instinctual. You couldn't stop it yourself. I know that our cat is lovely. Bonnie, okay, I'll go dogs.

Do you collect anything? Oh, yeah. I do, actually. trainees. Like sneakers back here? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've got a lot of trainees. Okay, that's good.

It could be worse. Too many, apparently. Yeah. No, no. Do you ever read a video game guy? You've a favorite video game of all time. Yes. Do you know what I used to love?

The original Mario, you know, because we used to have to get the mushrooms and grow bigger and all that because, and also, Asteroids, in the Boys Club, we had Asteroid, but in the video shop,

at school, at lunchtime, when we go across at lunch and you get your chips and that, the video shop, they had Mario Brothers and you used to queue up and you put your 10 pence in

and you'd be there for ages. sometimes I'll be dead honest with you Josh I'd miss the odd lesson because it's good for the hand-eye coordination it helps yeah I missed the odd lesson this is the Dakota Johnson Memorial question she posed this to me so I apologize

for the crudeness but would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one B in your butt it's provocative oh that's a surky question oh no I'm no no look as a man of a certain name I have experienced

piles This can be really stinging and itchy but in your mouth though I'm going to go for one being a butt Yeah, I agree I think that that's the right call What's the wallpaper on your phone?

Oh, it's actually Can you see it? Let me see there with you. Over here, yeah. I see a beach. I see three people. What do I? I don't know. That's me, Grace, and Alfie running into the sea at Cornwall. Beautiful. Do you ever get mistaken for another actor, who's the last actor you were mistaken for?

Not an actor. Anyone in England will get a fanning. Not an actor, but a fella that used to be on Big Brother. yeah yeah fell of our own big brother and occasionally every now and again wants to believe with Craig Charles yeah it's like well we're two different tones man like I see

yeah yeah but yeah there you go yeah what's the worst note a director has ever given you oh oh shit

oh I can't hear a boy it's not a moment that just was not helpful it could be a general or specific note Oh, that's hard to think that one. Okay.

You've been well directed. You work with the best, so they give good notes, apparently. Mostly, but you do get a bumps. I have, I've had the odd one, I've had quite a few where the directors giving me a note, and I've gone, are you sure, and you've gone, yeah, and I've gone, all right. So I've played it, and I've, inside, I've gone,

and they've come back over, and they've gone, should we go back to the way you did it? And I'm like, okay, thank you. Vindication, yeah. Thank you. Thank you. And in the spirit of happy, sad, confused, a actor who always makes you happy, you see them on screen, you're happier. Bruce Willis. No, no, no, no, no, not Bruce Willis for a man of ours? No. Robin Williams, I meant to say. Robin Williams is probably the most frequent answers to that question. I will let you know. Robin Williams. Yeah. A movie that makes you sad, always.

Oh, okay. Sh! What have you cried the most at? What film? Oh. The color purple. That's a good one. Yeah. Yeah.

And finally, a food that makes you confused. You don't get it. Why do people eat that? I don't understand it. Um, that makes you confused. Oh.

I have to pick it out of the things all the time because I don't like it. I get very angry with it. Oh shit. What's it called the green thing? That's that out when it's like prickly. Is it kind of lettuce? Like a string beans?

Like a... Oh, fuck. What's it called? I've just picked it out of my lunch then. And I forgot what it's called. It's the green thing. It's like a... It's a green thing.

It's a pea pod. A, no. No, no. No, no. Not par. Keep going. The worst game show ever. Not parsley.

It's like, oh, why have you put that in there? They put it in salontro. No, they put in science. They put it in food. Stephen, we're going to have to continue this on the second round of the podcast. Wait, wait, give me one second. Yeah, I can know where to be.

One second. Right, one second. Hang on. One second, please. How are you Googling this? How are that? What is possible? Here's my Google.

He's calling a friend. He's phoning a friend. Oh, no. Love, sorry, quickly. What's that thing that we pick out of salads that I can't stand, that green shit? Rocket. There we go.

Yeah, yeah. Sorry for waking you up. Love you, bye-bye. Rocket. There you go. Rocket told you. Oh, she was having a little. news there as well. See how my life to

go though, Josh. I know exactly where to go to and I'll fix it. Hannah solves everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fucking hate rockets. I don't understand it. It's everywhere as well. You have to pick it out of things. Even when you say no rocket, please. It comes back. I don't like it.

I've seen this aggressive side in some of your roles and finally it came out at the very end. Man, this was a blast. You know, we hit the tip of the iceberg of your career. You've been doing so much amazing work for so long. So we'll have to continue this another time. Truly, truly, truly, you're one of the best out there. Everybody should check out A Thousand Blows.

That's going to be on Hulu in the States, Disney Plus, elsewhere. And then adolescence is coming on Netflix in mid-March. So everybody should check that out if you want to see what this guy does as well as anybody in the business. Stephen, thanks again for the time today, man. Thank you very much, Josh. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you very much. And thank you for your kind words.

Of course, of course. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. The Old West is an iconic period of American history and full of legendary figures whose names still resonate today. Like Jesse James, Billy the Kid, and... and Butch and Sundance, Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, and Geronimo,

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