Happy Sad Confused - Stephen Lang

Episode Date: August 12, 2016

Don't hate him just because he plays an awesome bad guy. Stephen Lang of "Avatar" fame stops by to update Josh on the sequels, reminisce about his theater roots, and discuss his new films, "Don't Breathe" and "Beyond Glory". Oh and about him playing Cable... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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or go to explorevolvo.com. Don't miss Swiped, a new movie inspired by the provocative real-life story of the visionary founder of online dating platform Bumble. Played by Lily James, Swiped introduces recent college grad Whitney Wolf as she uses grit and ingenuity to break into the male-dominated tech industry to become the youngest female self-made billionaire. An official selection of the Toronto International Film Festival, the Hulu original film Swiped, is now streaming only on Disney Plus. Hey guys and welcome to happy, sad, confused. We're back. I'm Josh. That's Sammy.

There's Jenna who's not speaking. But the team is back together, guys. I don't know one to tell you that Jenna's never, that there's no one yet. It's like you keep thinking there's someone. I heard her. I just heard her. Gosh, there's no one there. Apologies, guys.

We took a couple weeks off in the transitional phase. We're kind of in between our friends at Earwolf and on the way to the MTV podcast network. But I'm happy to say the podcast is back and nothing's changed. We're all talking to the great American and international actors and directors and yada yada. What do you got, Sammy? Nothing's changed for the audience, but for us, we're in a different office. Oh, that's true. I've moved offices.

So the vibe feels different on that end. That's just we're trying to figure out the new space. Yeah, we're trying to still figure out the new space. What else has changed? not much. I do want to say I haven't had a chance. Part of the reason I took a couple weeks off was I've been busy

kind of launching a new series that I'm very excited about that I co-created and co-wrote called Junkateers that if you guys are, if you're listening to this and you're a fan of mine, bless you, you're a wonderful human being,

then perhaps you'll enjoy the series that I have done for Comedy Central digital called Junkateers. It's on their YouTube channel, search Junkateers, and basically, long story short, it's a scripted comedy that takes place in kind of the world that I've inhabited for a decade, i.e. film junkets, red carpets, tons of guest stars, everybody from

Kristen Bell and Chloe Grace Moretz and Josh Duhmel and Eli Roth and Gillian Jacobs, yada, yada, yada. It's very funny. Thank you, Sammy and Jenna. We're both at our, we had a little a New York gathering, little friends and family, colleagues, kind of premiere in New York. We had an amazing premiere in L.A. Dr. Dr. Drew was there. It was a major event. It turned into an intervention for Josh. I didn't realize he actually wasn't there for the premiere.

He was there to just curb my problem. But either two birds, one stone. Whatever. But no, I'm so proud of that show. And there are eight episodes up. I've been working on it for a long time. I haven't been talking about it because we purposely kind of

decided to launch it kind of all at once as a surprise. So, as I said, if you enjoy these kinds of interviews, you enjoy my silly sense of humor, I know for a fact you'll enjoy a junketeer. So check it out. Let me know what you think.

As for the podcast, Happy Said I Confused. Who do we got? Who do we got? This week we got an amazing... We talked at length. He called himself kind of like a journeyman actor and he is that,

but he's also a great character actor. He can be a great leading man. He's just a force, Stephen Lang. Stephen Lang, whether you know his name or not, you should know his name. But he's probably best known in recent years as Quaric in Avatar, kind of the bad guy, the bad military dude in Avatar. He made such a great impression in that film. He's had a hell of a career.

He's been around forever. We talk at length about his early theater work. He was in The Death of a Salesman, with Dustin Hoffman and John Malkovich. He has worked with Michael Mann a bunch of times. He's one of these guys that, like, is a consummate New York theater guy, and you can kind of fit him in any role, and he'll always deliver. He's got two films, actually, that are about to come out.

One is a real passion project that we talk about called Beyond Glory, which is a basically based on a book, and it's a one-man play brought to the screen, which he plays eight different Medal of Honor winners. So it's a really impressive feat of acting, let's say the least. The other kind of the more commercial prospect that you guys probably have heard of that's about to open is a movie called Don't Breathe, which is like a really great thriller. It's directed by Fedé Alvarez, who directed the Evil Dead remake recently. I saw it last night, and it so works with an audience.

It is one of those things where you're going to do with. You get scared? I got a little scared. I don't know what you're like. Do you cover your eyes when you're watching like a... Like a thriller, like when you know a scare is coming, how do you prepare yourself? I'll put both my hands over my eyes, but sort of like crosslock my fingers so I can peek through like little cracks. I do it much more dignified.

I don't raise the hands in front of me. I will like kind of like cock my head down as if like I have like some kind of prick in my neck or something. And like I don't want to actually admit that I have to cover my eyes, but I basically will just like turn away. Behind you, we'll be like, oh, is he throwing up his? Yeah, so you're having a stroke? Nope, I'm just watching a scary movie. So this is definitely that. A lot of great scares. He plays, if you've seen the trailer, you know it, but if you haven't, it's basically a bunch of teenagers break into a blind veterans house.

And they make the misfortune of breaking into the wrong dude's house. The wrong blind veteran. Stephen Lang is the wrong guy to burglarize. Trust me. And it truly is a really taught thriller It's like it's like it just it works as like a great piece of filmmaking And I think it's gonna be a crowd pleaser I think it'll make a boat loads of money

Anyway so Stephen Lang Super cool guy he's one of the first guys we ever did an after hours with So he's always got a Got a place in my heart Yeah, what a special thing Yeah he is and he's somebody that I definitely consider A friend of the show friend of after hours A friend of mine he goes by slang by the way

I thought you were kidding when you were like, slang was here. And I was like, look at Josh doing the name. He kind of goes by slang to friends in recent years. So, you know what? I feel like we're at that point. I'm going to call him slang. Does he say like you are now able to call me slang? Yeah, in fact, we do address that in this.

I've entered slang territory. Wow. I would hope so. The Avatar year, I interviewed him probably eight times. Any Avatar talk? Of course. A lot of Avatar talk. A lot of Avatar sequel talk.

That's what I'm talking about. He's also been rumored, kind of fan-casted to play Cable, this character in the Deadpool universe. So Cable is this major comic character that's going to be in the next Deadpool movie. And fans really think he would make a great cable because he actually looks at the part. He really does.

He's kind of like the grizzled kind of badass. And he would be an amazing cable. He himself is kind of hedging his bets. He doesn't think he'll actually get the part, but it would be kind of cool if he does. So we talk a bunch about that. that and a whole lot more. I'm really happy we're back in the podcast zone,

some cool guests coming up. But in the meantime, anything else, Sammy? What else? No, should I spoil some of the guests coming up? No, we've been over this. Got it. I always forget whether it's absolutely don't or absolutely do. It's like, ugh.

Jack Nicholson, the Pope. Obama. Malia, not Barack. The interesting one. Yeah, yeah. Who cares about the dad? some cool folks coming up but for now

let's not worry about the future guys let's live in the moment and enjoy this conversation It's slang time I hope you enjoy this conversation with the great Stephen Lange Bye daddy I shouldn't say bye you're about to hear my voice

I can in five seconds I'll say bye Okay say bye signing off Bye See you in five seconds I've welcome to the office I've known for many years Thankfully James Cameron brought us together

years ago, and I feel like we talked about 10 times that amazing year of Avatar, and it's been good to get to know you over the years and follow your work. And Stephen Lang, thanks for being here today. Oh, it's great to be here. Thanks for speaking with me, Josh. So there's a lot to cover. The beauty of this podcast is we have some time to kind of luxurate in your wonderful career and make you cry and, you know, Barbara Walters on you. But I don't even know where to begin. Maybe, well, I mean, I always appreciate a fellow New Yorker, and, you know, and you are. You're born and bred New Yorker as far as I know. Indeed, I am. Have you ever lived in L.A.? Did you ever make the trip out there? Well, I've never, I mean, I bought a place out there

years ago. I bought a little bungalow on the edge of Santa Monica, actually back when it was sort of gangbanger territory. And I was never there. I, you know, I loved it, but I wasn't there. And I worried about it. I'd lend it to friends. I didn't want to rent it because renter's rights are so strong in Santa Monica that you can't get them out apparently. Once they're in they're out and they're out and I bought it for myself but I ended up selling it and so much of my work has been elsewhere. I mean I'm sorry I sold it now because my oldest son Danny he lives out there and works in the industry out there. Right.

He could have had it. But, no, I really like L.A. very much. Yeah. And we will be out there for an extended period of time over the next couple of years because Avatar, a lot of Avatar, will be shooting in Manhattan Beach. Gotcha. And that's going to go on for a good long time.

I mean, do you think that, I think I've referenced this with you at some point in our conversations, that you are, in fact, the second Lang that I've interviewed in my career. I actually interviewed your dad when I was like a child reporter here in the city. And for those they don't know, Eugene Lang, Stephen's father, a very well-regarded philanthropist entrepreneur. And I remember I and some other young people talked to him about the, I think it was the I Have a Dream Foundation. Sure. Which was this amazing.

Still going strong. Fantastic. Which would, I guess, I mean, you know better than me, but it would basically fund kids from the start to get them all. all the way through college or pay for their college education. Well, it does, but it really, it's so much more than that. It mentors children, mentors children from a very early age and sees them right through college. And it was, he founded it in 1981,

and it's still going strong and has made a difference in the lives of thousands and thousands of kids all over the country, because there are dreamers all over the country. And, of course, that always has a, it has a, I guess, a geometric effect because it also, what's good for the child is good for the family of course. And so, yeah, I was with my dad yesterday. He's 97 years old.

Amazing. He's not, he's lost a lot, but he's still with us. Fantastic. I'm glad to hear that. You talk about a New Yorker. Yeah. It is a New Yorker. Well, how did that, I mean, you know, it's hardly encapsulated in a soundbite.

isn't about sound bites, but how did growing up in New York and being the son of a New Yorker, a quintessential New Yorker, do you think define you, define your worldview? I mean, how do you think it's sort of still influences you? That's a really, it's a terrific question. Well, first of a, the first word that came to mind is it toughens you up a bit. New York has it, there's a toughness to New York, which is not to say a meanness or a brutality. I mean, all of these things, exist everywhere. But I think New York is, you need to be a resilient person. Right. To really be a New Yorker. But I think that the other thing that I recall that was so important was being surrounded by a diversity of people all my life, you know, and that it just, I was, I had classmates

of every stripe, every color, every religion. and that was the norm and so New York is a place unto itself in that way I mean it's the first place it's when you think about coming to this country

immigrated to this country you know we think of the statue exactly the lady in the harbor and what it means were the arts something that was prevalent in your family did you was theater

a regular practice or give me a sense of service well you know my grandfather father was a foreman in the Brooklyn Navy Yard, and my grandmother was a school teacher, and so they didn't make a lot of money, but they did, you know, they raised a family, and they both love the opera. And that's the first thing that I really remember culturally was that they loved the opera. I was going to say, I haven't seen your opera. How's your singing voice? Oh, I sing like a boy. Oh, yeah. No, no, truly, I can, oh, I can sing a baby.

I'm just waiting to do a musical. Have you done a musical on Broadway ever? Well, I did keep workshopping this musical, but someday they'll let me when I'm old and I do the character songs, you know. Amazing. Yeah. But anyway, from there, and of course my,

yes, there was a great appreciation for the arts in my family. My mother loved the theater. And so I just fell for it. I love the movies and I love the theater. So, yeah, it was encouraged. What did they make of it when you, if there was a good defining time where you said, I'm going to make a go of this, were they encouraging? And when did you kind of make that decision? Well, you know, I'm the youngest of three. And my sister's an attorney, was an attorney, and I'm retired now. And my brother, a businessman. By the time they got to me, it was like, yeah, yeah, do whatever.

He's the bonus. Are you the youngest of three? You're the youngest. I'm the youngest. I'm the youngest of three. I was like, yeah, do it. Yeah, sure. Get a shot. You know, so they were very, they were supportive of it, I think. I think they were nervous in a way, but not exceedingly so. They thought, you'll do all right, you know. Was there a moment, do you think, that legitimized, if not for yourself, for family and friends your career? Well, you kind of look at everything that from, I think back on the first roles I had, which were essentially spear-carrying roles.

I remember my debut in New York was in Central Park, Shakespeare in the Park, with Sam Waterston as Hamlet, and I had lines. You know, I had lines in the show, and it was, I'm working in the New York theater, and this is at a time in the 70s, 74, when Joe Pap, which may mean something to some of your listeners, but it won't, but Joe Pap was the titan. the god of New York Theater to work to work for the New York Shakespeare Festival and so that was a great coup

but undoubtedly you've got to kind of then fast forward to 1983 when I'd been in the theater at that point for about 10 years and I was cast as happy in Dustin Hoffman's death of a salesman right and that was that was gargantuan so that was the seal of approval I would think and that gargantuan performances all

around, I mean, Malkovich was in that production as well, as I recall, right? Adapted into, or filmed for, like, a television production, as I recall. CBS made a film directed by Volker Schlondorf, which is seen, I think, in many, many schools. The last I heard, Death of a Salesman has not been banned, you know. And it's quite a splendid film, and that is a, that's a very interesting hybrid of theater and film. Yeah, yeah, yeah. that movie, and they did a great job. Which we're going to dovetail into Beyond Glory,

which does another interesting recreation of something you've been doing for a while on the stage. But in terms of even before, or that Sam Waterson experience in the Dustin Hoffman, the Death of a Salesman experience, I'm curious, was there like a first role or collaboration with a actor or director that made a huge mark for you? I mean, in terms of like, oh, this is what I want to emulate, this is who I want to work with, this is the kind of career that I aspire to? When I was very young, I wanted to be a member of the Doily Cart Opera Company, which was based in London, and they produced,

they were famous for Gilbert and Sullivan. And I, as a child, I was one of those nutty guys who's a Gilbert and Sullivan aficionado. Still am, I confess. And I wrote a letter to Bridget Dolly Cart, who ran the company, and she kind of made me in a sort of a mascot of the company, as it were, which meant that when they came to New York, which they did every other year, I think,

and they played at City Center, I would get tickets, and I would be taken backstage to meet the artists. And that was the first time I was backstage in a major theater, and I fell in love with it. I fell in love with the darkness and the sandbags and the ropes and everything.

I just, I like being backstage. I probably was actually born to be a stage, hand rather than I've been an actor. So that was important to me. That was my experience just being on a stage. I felt this is where I belong. And then in high school, I had a very, I had a guy, the guy who taught theater there

also taught religion, which was interesting because he was a very good teacher. And, you know, in high school when you're 15 or 16 years old, what you're really, what it's really about is not so much technique about learning to act. it's being inspired right is what it's about being inspired with the importance of what you're doing that what you're doing is and he and and this is where the religion and the theater kind of dovetailed for this guy was that there was something sacred about about working in the theater

so he kind of imbued me with that and and that kind of carried forth so in falling of with theater um the transition or or whatever to trying to get your face in front of a camera and television and film. Did it feel like those first opportunities, did it feel like comforting, comfortable, or did it feel like this is a totally different art form that I need to figure out? It felt, as I recall, it felt pretty natural.

Once I got by the kind of being awed by it, I mean, the first feature I did, I did with Gene Hackman, Ellen Burstyn, and Margaret. I mean, really iconic actors. and I had that you know I'd just kind of stand there with my mouth open I think but then you

you learn from the best and it felt pretty organic to me I'd been at that point when I first started working in television and film I'd been in the business about nine or ten years I often wonder because I didn't go to Hollywood in the 70s and of course

the 70s is kind of a golden age of film in a way, but I always wanted to be called to Hollywood. We request your presence, Mr. A. Exactly. To this bungalow here. And, you know, and they weren't calling. So I was doing whatever I could do,

but I do wonder if had I gone out there, what would my life have been? And sometimes I think at least one possible answer is it would have been ended because I probably would have gotten deeply into some of the other pursuits the other stuff that was going on there at the time I think but maybe not

but in any case it's all worked out Yeah I mean it's interesting you bring that up I mean are you kind of like you know philosophical in terms of like how you got to where you're sitting here today in terms of like as I mentioned at the outset you know we got to know each other thanks to Avatar and much of the world got to know you there

you'd live the life though you'd had an amazing career already in theater and television and a film I would imagine there had to be the frustrations in the decades before of like, I'm just as good as these other guys. I could be a leading man. I should have these opportunities. I mean, you know, Josh, those frustrations never go away.

Yeah. I mean, they still exist. But as I think you said philosophical, I'm extremely philosophical. That comes partly with age, I think, partly with, you know, as you get older, I think you do get, hopefully you get a little bit wiser. But listen, I, what I always found was the victories, the death of a salesman, a few good men, speeds of darkness, the roles that you do get, you forget all the pain for a little while.

You forget the day-to-day pain. Possibly it's a bit like childbirth, you know. And, but sure, there were a lot, there was a lot of, The worst thing in the world is to wake up and not have anything on your plate that day. Right. And that can be that way. I had days like that. Well, maybe that accounts, I mean, not to put you on the couch,

but like you are quite a prolific actor. I mean, it seems like you like, you know. I like to work. Yeah, you like to work. I mean, like, you know, when the going is good, you take your opportunities. And as you know, there are lean years that for any, no matter how good you are, the industry tells you when you're wanted and not wanted. It's out of your control. No, absolutely. And I think it is wise to make hay all the sun shines.

But the other part of the answer to that question is that by the time Avatar came around, my career was established. It was, I was, I think, you know, well regarded. I was what I would call, and I think a lot of times this term is used in kind of a almost a derogatory way, but I don't see it that way at all, is I was a journeyman actor. Sure. And, you know, I looked up journeyman, and it means it's a hard work and person who's good at their job. Right. You'll take that.

And that pretty much define me. Well, to be honest, I still consider myself a journeyman actor. And I, the success of Avatar was not unfamiliar to me because I'd had an analogous success with Death of a Salesman, being part of that. And Death of a Salesman put me in another place, although all the glory in that show really belonged to John, to Malcovic. That's the way it is.

and justly so I have no beef about it I support it, love him but you learn from that kind of stuff and so I was I was cool I did

I had we all have a streak of envy sure and as I think why didn't I get that part why did I get this and then when something like Avatar happens it's almost like the cosmos everything sort of comes into focus

and everything is you go oh that's what all of this was leading to right my goodness i'm glad i'm still sober you know what i mean i'm glad i can enjoy this yeah glad i'm not bitter yeah i'm glad i'm still working hard and so uh and and i think if i'd had some tremendous success when i was in my 20s or in my 30s that i probably would have gone i could have gone off the rails yeah a bit but for it to happen to me when I was in my mid-50s it just felt really great

I'm sure and also I would think it kind of a success like that clarifies your priorities a bit and that kind of brings us to kind of where we're at today with something like not only don't breathe but more especially something like Beyond Glory which is clearly you know the cliche a passion project

but this clearly is a passion project something that you've brought to the stage hundreds of times in every different conceivable city and country was it important to you in the wake of Avatar because by then you'd already been performing this production for a while right to kind of

again use this kind of new juice that you had and be like okay maybe now's the time I can actually bring this passion project to the screen and really bring it to a whole wider audience it's a what happened was you know I got Avatar quite specifically because of Beyond Glory

quite because Jim Cameron because Margie Simkin Jim Cameron's casting director saw the ad in the New York Times of the play Beyond Glory which was about to open at the roundabout theater on 46th Street and the ad I'm in a military

and I look strak and she said, huh hey Jim Jim do you know Stephen Lang and he went oh yeah really good actor read for me for a you know Jim's got a steel trap of a memory. Red for me for aliens, did a really, really good job.

This has all been recounted to me by both Jim and Margie. You know, maybe I should have cast him. Well, whatever. He did a great job, though. Why? And she shows him the picture, and they both said, he goes, oh, Quarach. And that's how the call came. So beyond, but just to just go back a little bit, beyond glory itself, the play came out,

was the result of the failure of gods and generals, which was my shot. A huge role for you, very well-regarded role, for those that have seen it, but what, it was not the commercial success that? It was not a commercial success, but beyond that, in many ways, the film was reviled because it recounted,

it's a Civil War film in which I play Stonewall Jackson. Robert Duvall played Robert Ely, and of course, Bob Duval is, there's no actor who I have a higher regard for than Robert Duvall. And it was an incredible experience making this film. I took such pride in the effort we put into it and in the product itself, which is a flawed product. But the film was ill-regarded for many, many, for a number of reasons,

some of which are legitimate, some of which are bogus, in my opinion. But it doesn't matter. The point is, this was a big, big movie for me, and it fell with a thud. And I began to have to really rethink, kind of evaluate my position in this business. I mean, I was kind of thinking, well, maybe that was it. What are you going to do now? Because I can't do any better than that when it comes to acting, you know, and my phone ain't ringing. And that was when I, out of necessity, I kind of felt you need to take advantage a little, you need to show some initiative.

You need to take responsibility for your own career to the extent that you can. So I was looking for something, some subject, either to write about or to direct or whatever. And this book that had not been published yet Beyond Glory by a journalist Larry Smith who I played basketball with and he was a casual acquaintance came into, I read this and then I just started working on the thing

and it all happened very, very quickly I had something that I needed to get out. And I would think, I mean, from, I mean, it checks off so many boxes. From your perspective, I would think just as an actor for those that don't know, this is really an amazing performance piece in that.

Essentially, it's 80 minutes, I think, eight roles, basically. It's eight roles in 80 uninterrupted minutes in which I play. Eight Medal of Honor recipients from World War II, Korea, and Vietnam. Of all, they are men of different wars, men of different services, and men of different ethnicities. And so it was conceived to be, a tour to force for an actor. I did it.

I wanted to do something I wasn't sure I could do. I wanted to do something in that, in fact, I knew I couldn't do. And so that's why I did it. And it's been, as you pointed out, a very personal work for me, something that I've returned to over and over again. And the idea of filming it,

the first time I wanted to film it, really was when we were, well, I was touring in 2005 in Iraq and the Persian Gulf and to troops at the DMZ in Korea. And so many times I was wishing that it was being filmed. And that may be just kind of, you know, vanity in a way because I, these experiences were so personally important to me. But then when we were doing Avatar, when I first got introduced, started working in motion capture I thought oh God this motion capture

would work so great for Beyond Glory they could morph me into all these things it would be extraordinary and one night John Landau who was the producer of Beyond Glory we were having dinner in

Los Angeles and I was telling them about this and that I really had a dream and make this movie and he said to me the thing is playing. It cost a million dollars a minute to do the

mocap, you know, of your face. So how long is your show? 80 minutes. Okay. So it's... We just did a very easy budget there. We figured it out. 80 million dollar film there, okay? I think, you know, no, but you know, and John Landau, interestingly, you know, his parents,

the Landau's Eli, and I can't remember his mother's name, they were producers back in the 60s and 70s and they did a thing called the American Film Theater where they filmed theater they did Ice Man Cometh with Lee Marvin and they did Luther with Stacey Keech they did a number of things and I saw them all

and they were terrific so he knows from theater and film and he said the virtue of this thing is the performance the live performance you want to film that that's fine blah blah blah so John was always very supportive of the project as was Jim

and in any case that was my first I wanted to do mocap in the end I had retired the piece for a while because I'd done it so much then in 2013 these booking guys came to me and said you know what this show will play all over the country

we'd really like to book it and they were good guys and so I let them book a tour and we went out and we took it to the heartland of America played every place from Milwaukee to Texarkana to Aiken, South Carolina and it was old time theater

It was great and I hadn't done the show in a while You're literally out there with a trunk It doesn't get there any more basic than that I traveled with a stage manager And my wife came along Tina came along which made it great And we had a lot of fun It was hard work and a lot of laughs

But it was a finite thing We did like 22 dates In you know Three weeks or something like that gone all the hell over America and people were really, really enjoying it and then after that I took it on tour again for the military

since I'd learned the peace again I called my friends in the Navy they're very, very good about getting stuff together and said, you know, I'm doing this again and they said, bring it over, please and so we took it to Afghanistan and we began filming it. And so we amassed a lot of footage

And finally, I decided, this is, we're going to make a movie. This is a movie. We're going to make them. I don't know. I can't make the movie, but somebody's going to make a movie. I had worked on two films with a company, 8180. I did a film called Christina and a film called The Girl on the Train, different than the big one that's coming up.

Both written and directed by Larry Brand, and produced by Jim Carpenter and Rebecca Reynolds. who comprise 81, 80 films. So I called him, I said, I want you to, I want you to produce this, make this movie. And I said, okay. And Larry came in, and he did, he directed it. And he edited.

You know, this, and his list is directed and edited by Larry Brand, because so much of this is in the editing. Cross-cutting between different locales, different backstage scenes, et cetera. And it makes it feel dynamic. I mean, as you said, like, it, it works just as like a performance. performance piece and just I'm actors are going to just die watching this like aspiring actors to see what you do here but I think it's smart in terms of the way it does feel like it has a scope it has a dynamism that maybe some transfers from theater to

film don't have it's hard to do in particularly a solo show yeah right which is a form of direct address to to an audience so but Larry and one of the first things he said to me was we need to do a green screen performance of this which I had not done. So forget about mocap, but green screen we can afford. And we went out to L.A. And we were in this tidy little studio and it was being produced at that point also by my son, Noah, who's a prolific producer. And my boy, Danny, was, you know, key gripping in the show. So it was a real family affair. And we did green screen performance. I did two performances in that day on green screen, which enabled Larry to create all these kind of kicky, arty sort of environments,

which are, some of them are quite specific, some of them are not. Right. Some of them are a little more abstract. Right. And I found it very pleasing what he did. And as you say, in a way, there's a lot of cinematic finesse that goes into making this film. because you're taking 80 minutes of one guy talking and turning it into something that's visually, you know, interesting as well.

Well, I think the hope, and I have a feeling it will be like, in kind of a similar way we were talking about that production of death of a salesman that was transferred into television and plays to the staying classrooms around, I have a feeling this is something that will be able to, I mean, it's a small release, it's a labor of love, and I think it will find an audience soon when it's out, but I think it's also something that will play hopefully for years to come. Yeah, thank you. Good. And I just feel, I'm just, well, I'm glad the damn thing's done.

Yeah, I'm sure for you. Oh my God. Yes. You know what I mean? Because it's been a long process. You never have to do it again. You're like, go to the videotape. I feel that way, but I probably will is the thing, you know, but not right now. The other thing that we need to talk about, because I just watched it last night is your film Don't Breathe, which is, it's an interesting kind of juxtaposition between that and Beyond Glory, because, you know, we're, talking about the cinematic prowess of Beyond Glorium and transferring something that's that's relatively simple and stagebound to film terms. Fetti Alvarez, I believe I'm pronouncing his name correctly. Yes, you are. Who did the Evil Dead remake, which I was a big fan of, has directed this one. And it's just a consummate thriller. And it's just like, it's clearly just a guy that knows cinematic language so damn well. He's like, you know, it's maybe

overstating it to say it. But like, when I was watching it, I was like, This is like a Hitchcock film. This is like somebody that just knows how to use everything in the toolkit. You play a blind vet who some teenagers have the misfortune of breaking into the wrong house and insanity ensues. And watching it with an audience, by the way, it was a full theater. It was thrilling because it was one of those things where like the audience members are so identifying with whoever's perspective it is. talking to the screen, and it's a really fun, smart film and another fine performance.

I guess just to talk to me a little bit about, I mean, the challenges of this one, on the flip side, the other one is so, it's certainly, Beyond Glory, has a lot of physicality, but it's so dialogue-driven. This one, you, up until two-thirds into it, you basically grunt and scream a couple times, but there's almost no dialogue.

It's a silent performance. That's one of the things that attracted me to it, I think, and you're right about Fede Alvarez. Fed, he, he, he's a master. I mean, and he's young, and we shouldn't pin that on him right now, but his command of the toolbox of cinematic language, opportunity, potential is really quite extraordinary, I think, and he's a hell of a lot of fun to work with. Is that right?

As well, yeah. It would seem, I feel sorry for Jane Levy, who's his leading lady in two consecutive films. He puts her through the ring, or puts all his actors through the ring or a physical performance to say the least. I mean, you know, I would think you, you embrace physicality, you enjoy physical roles, it would seem, is it as rewarding in its own way as something like? I love this film. I'm very proud of this film.

I'm very happy to talk about, go out and talk about this film because I think he did such a great job. It is, well, you said Hitchcock, I read one review, they're calling it, and now they're using it as it's Hitchcock on crack. I'll take that. And you know what? It kind of is. It kind of is.

I think. But, yeah, the physical nature of it, I'd never played blind before. I hadn't done that. So that was intriguing to me. And you have to enter into that, particularly in this day and age, with a real measure of respect. Sure. To do that because we live in a time, because there are many. There are blind actors who will wonder why am I not playing that role,

and I can't answer that question. Philosophically, I do believe every actor should be able to play anything. It's part of what we do. Being blind is part of my toolkit as well. But in any case, that's another discussion. I'd never done it, and so I was challenged by that, and figured out ways to give myself so much of playing a role is about having the confidence to play the role.

It's just about developing confidence to take that leap of faith that's necessary. So I kind of created things for myself that would give me that confidence which had to do with getting to know the geography of that house very, very well by counting steps, by spending a lot of time in there,

which meant that I actually could flow through that house like Bruce the shark. or something. I, and in other ways, I did stuff that's perfectly normal for me. In my dressing room, I lifted weights, but I did it blind. I did yoga, blind, which is really hard, you know, stuff like that. But I just, I, and what I did was, there are all kinds of directors. You have all kinds of relationships.

There are many directors who kind of set you loose. And then there are directors who tighten the noose on you. And with FedE, it was a very, very intimate relationship because it really had to do with, for one of a better term, selling blindness. And so much of the time that has to do with just the direction you're looking, with the cock of the head, with, you know, the slightly inappropriate movement, whatever, you know, whatever it may be.

And that's something that I can feel, but he can really see. And if he's feeling it, and he sees it, so many times that he would say to me, lift your head a little bit now. No, no, don't open, don't open the eye there. Keep it lazy. It's interesting because, like, in watching it, like, one thing that I was kind of anticipating, and I'm kind of thankful, well, it didn't go to this extreme was, like, this guy's going to be almost, like, like, supernaturally gifted,

like a blind ninja. And while he's exceptionally talented and has amazing skills, he's still blind and he's still their impediments and he's still bumping into it. I mean, it's just the nature of, I mean, you can't,

you can compensate in only so many ways. Well, that's, we certainly really didn't want to make him daredevil. And as I saw, it is important to realize that it's only within the confines of his own little self-imposed

exile, his kingdom there, that he has the ability to move that way. When you see him out on the street, there's a he's lost his power to a degree. Or what it is, but there's a vulnerability to him, I think

that, because he's not comfortable, particularly comfortable out there at all. So, yeah, that was very important not to make him superhuman in any way, but to amp him up. We needed to have him amped up.

No, you're, yes, you can play intimidating and dare I say it's scary pretty well, sir. Dare I say? Dare I say scary? There I say it scary. Well, you've said it, haven't you? I've said it. Stephen Lange! By the way, I know

you go by a slang to many. When did that start? Was that all the way back to childhood? No, it's not child. It's about 15 years ago or something. And dare I tell this story. You've got You bring out the actor in me, Stephen. Shall I?

Should I? Did I go there? What happened was, now, remember back a long time ago in this interview when we were talking about the dark days in my career? Well, I believe it was during the dark days of my career. You reinvented yourself a slang. When Stephen Lang wasn't, he wasn't getting work.

And so I'm driving with my wife. This is true. I'm driving with my wife one day. And I said, you know, And I just, you know, I like to bait her anyway. I mean, I've been doing it for years. I said, you know, I'm thinking that it's time I change my name. And she goes, uh-huh.

I said, I'm thinking it's time to go with the uni name, like, you know, like, you know, charo. Share or, you know, Liberace. And she goes, uh-huh. And I said, I'm thinking, I'm thinking that I should. I changed my name to slang. Silence. I like it. I almost hit a tree.

You do? And then she says, slang. All lowercase? And I said, absolutely. Should, okay. So that's, that was the genesis. I really hope Avatar 2

You're credited as slang Well I think that's hard to do I've tried to get myself credited that way And they said no no no no you know you're known Maybe it's end introducing slang Because you're kind of reintroducing yourself It's a new guy Yeah yeah so that's the story

I hope I don't I hope I don't live to regret having told this story Is it okay to do you know people You grow up you want a name right Yeah I went through a phase Yeah, totally. I went through a phase. I wanted to be called Max for like a year when I was a child for no discernible reason. And you know what? You know the thing is that it's taken. It's taken root. And the reason it's taken root is quite simple. People like to say it. It's a fun word to say. It is fun. And it can be useful too because when we're doing public enemies. Yeah. We had Stephen Dorff. We had Stephen Graham. No other slangs. We had a lot of us. We had Stephen, you know. And of Michael went, ah.

Stephen. You know, nine of us look up and go, what, what, what? Let him go, ah, sling. So that's the story. I love it. It's as wonderful as I had hoped. So Avatar, which I feel badly because ever since we started talking about Avatar, we've been talking about the sequel, and that's seven years ago now. You should publish a volume.

Oh, my God. I could have all the interviews I've done with all you guys about. One's the sequel, what's the start date, everything, everything, everything. But we'll get there. I was actually in cinema con when James dropped the news that, wait, what are we out now? Four more, see? Four. Yeah.

Okay, there were going to be four more Avatar movies, which is amazing. Yes. That mind cannot be stopped. It's just a big story. I would think. I mean, I guess my question, and again, I know, like, there's not much to say at this point, but have you, like, read any, is it all him talking to you about it? Have you read a scriptment or I know he calls them scriptments or screenplay or anything

at this point? Let me say this. What I think the best thing for me to do is to say something highly articulate, very quotable, and utterly meaningless. Okay, fair enough. You know, if you take, and you know, the thing, and think about it, if you take the highly articulate part of it away, I could be describing the Republican candidate for President of the United States, you know, highly quotable and utterly meaningless.

Right. There, I've said it. Avatar is going to be huge. I wanted to get, yeah, it's great, it's the greatest. It's the greatest of the Avatar movies. Whatever. Yes, I have read over 75% of the entire project. Wow.

And, you know, the delay has always been the scope of the project. And there may be, there may be delays. You know, one of the things that I know is that when Jim, Wrote Avatar, one of the challenges become creating the technology that you need to bring the vision to life. And so necessity being the mother of invention with him. And that's what an exciting and dangerous, you know, way to work. Yeah.

And I'm sure that there is, having read what I've read, I mean, there are extraordinary challenges. But to get to the articulate and meaningless, statement. It's a pretty, you know, it really is an epic saga that unfolds on a very majestic planet that, you know, you're going to see unparalleled environments and creatures. And yet, at the same time, Josh, it's extremely intimate and very, very, very emotional. Right. So there I've touched on the macro and the micro. Without actually saying anything.

There was some substance there because I would agree. I think that's, and it's interesting. I mean, like, there's been a lot, you know, I follow a lot of film discussions, obviously,

as a big film, dork myself. And, like, this happens a bunch with a lot of his work. It happened with Titanic to a degree, and it's happened with Avatar, where there's this kind of like,

there's a segment of the population now, especially in kind of like the film nerd community, that kind of like poo's avatar a little bit. It's like the highest grossing movie of all time, so it's hard to poo that. But, like,

there is something, and I think it's because, Because his films as sophisticated and as just dynamically, visually, stirring as they are, they're very earnest films, actually. He's like a very classical filmmaker, and there's nothing without the emotions in his films. And I don't know, I'm just curious, have you followed that? Is that river rub you the wrong way when you hear people now, like, in retrospect, dismissing, like, the power of Avatar and saying, oh, wasn't that good.

It was just kind of cheesy or whatever. Well, that's got to be just water off. off my back, you know, uh, sure, there's always going to be people who do it. And I see it, uh, because if something new appears, you know, in the internet about Avatar, I want to see just I, you know, I'm waiting for some news too. Sure. You know, and there invariably are really, really, you know, vicious and negative comments about it, but you know, whatever, it's free country, I suppose. I, I, I expect, I know that, that, that the project is so, uh, it's, it's stunningly exciting and challenging and this original story that he's telling because this is not

you know with all as much as I adore Lord of the Rings and everything it was that's there's a source material there this is all out of his brain yeah you know and um it's quite it's pretty stunning stuff I think and I think what what people forget about him is like I mean sure other filmmakers it might seem like on the surface a cash grab or something something that doesn't feel authentically artistically rewarding but look at his work look at his filmography this is a guy that like doesn't do anything by halves he pushes himself to such degrees has made you know two of the best sequels i think of all time trust in jim katherine i always say that i mean he's proven us proven the naysayers wrong so many times well if you take a film a

Aside from the sci-fi, I watched Titanic again recently, and I am awestruck every time I watch that movie by, because there's a very, there's a very direct through line, but, you know, with Jack and Rose, yeah. But the, there are at least 40, 30 or 40 ancillary characters whose stories get really, really exciting. explored, who serve the through line and who make themselves shine as well. Down to even the old couple in the bed. The old couple in the bed is one of the most beautiful shots ever. And you know what? That's all you needed to, that shot is all you needed to tell that entire story. Now that's brilliant filmmaking, it seems to me.

So, yeah. So, as I said, you're always a busy guy. I think you just, did you shoot something with Scott Cooper? I did. Scott Cooper. Sure. He, you know, I did Black Mouse. He did Black Mass. He did out of the furnace. And he did, his first one was Crazy Heart, which was Jeff's Academy Award. And I, I've watched Scott with great interest and pride because Scott was, when I did God's and the aforementioned gods and generals, Scott was a young actor, really a fledgling just out of the nest. And he was on my staff. And I remember very well the exactitude, meticulous. quality of the work that he did, even though it was a, you know, it was not a big

part. He was right in there, and I liked, I marked him as a good one. And then, lo and behold, it becomes a director. So I was off somewhere, I followed him, and he called me

and said, Stephen, because he calls me Stephen. Hasn't gone on with the program yet? Nobody knows. Come on. He did. He did on the shoot, when I refused to answer. No, he said, when I was writing this role, I heard your voice.

Now, it's a really important role, although it's not a huge role. Can I send it to you? And I said, Scott, you can send it to me, but I'll tell you right now, I'll do it. I mean, you know, I'm on your team. And I went out, and it was one lovely nine-page scene with myself. Christian Bale and Bill Camp I mean and those are that's a pair of actors

yeah Bill Camp who's having a kind of speaking of like a character actor who's kind of having a moment in recent years he's popping up everywhere Bill is terrific yeah I've admired his work for many years yeah I think I just he was just on stage here in the crucible yeah someone for Tony this year that's right

so it was a great pleasure to be out there with him he told me he'd called for black mass but I was unavailable and so I'm glad he's put in the call and I'll tell you what I'm really glad I was nice to him back in the old days exactly exactly he's clearly an actor's director as they say I mean he's drawing quite a quite a company around him I have to find care I think it's going to be a should be a very interesting movie and bail of course I'm very very I love bail we'd work together in public enemies sure and he's a terrific actor and a hell of a good guy

yeah yeah we've we've joked recently when we've seen each other out and about about the cable phenomenon as you well-name people will keep asking you about this and I know this is not of your own volition you're just look if people want to see you as cable you're you're a service you're a servant to the masses this is obviously cable

the comic character that people have kind of fan casted you in for years and now that Deadpool is such a hit there we are going to see that character in the next film supposedly so as I understand it there's nothing like you haven't talked to Ryan Reynolds or the studio or anything I haven't talked to anybody you talk to me about it that's about it this is

it I mean I've what happened because it kept cropping up, I finally, I did one tweet. And I, because I'm so witty, I wrote, I wrote, yeah, let's lay some cable. All right, right. It's not funny. I'm, I'm ready. That was it. That's all the internet needs, man.

And it was like, and so it's like, he's campaigning for the part. And so, so, and of course, we live in a very shameless age where you can campaign for parts. I got to tell you, that was the extent of my campaign. But when people do fan art, which they do constantly, where they impose my face on some gargantuan sort of, you know, body with a big steel arm and one weird eye and anything like that, if I like it, I retweet it. Why not? Exactly.

The way I figure it, it's a win-win situation. Because if I get the part, good. And I would add, if I get the part, they're going to be really happy. I'm going to do a real, real good job. Oh, no doubt. Even though I'm old, I'm going to do a real good job. He's grizzled. He's grizzled.

You can play grizzled. Exactly. I can do grizzled in my sleep. And but if I don't get the part, which would be a terrible part I might add. If I don't get the part, then the fact that I actually am doing four sequels to Avatar makes me feel that I can be made. magnanimous in defeat. Yes.

And say something nice about whoever the hell they give the part two. So no actual conversation with anybody. It's literally just you and me in the interview. I haven't been taking their calls. No, I don't know. Listen, dude, it's the same studio as Avatar. I mean, somebody's going to figure out like, well, you know, so I would say it's a long shot.

But hey, you never know. Stranger things have happened. Have you talked to, I'm surprised we haven't seen. you pop up in like a Marvel or DC thing with every consummate it's shocking actor have you met with either of them about parts in any of these giant films I don't know I think that I think they

have me tarred avatared I think I've been avatard what about Star Wars you could be like a grizzled evil something I don't see any movie I see yeah with a grizzled old something yeah and I think why am I not playing your part I'm back you know we're back to the envy thing again

how come he's playing that I should be playing that part. I'm with you. I'm your de facto agent. And then there are guys who are getting like two grizzled. You know, it's like Tommy Lee. Jones. He's at the high end of grizzled right now. Exactly. He's too grizzled. You need somebody a little less grizzly. That would be me. Yeah. You can jump around. And then we're not grizzled enough. Yeah. You know.

No, you're in that sweet spot. You're in that Tommy Lee circa fugitive grizzled stage where you can you can, you can bust some heads and jump around. I can still, I can still kick ass and jump around, you know, with the help of a good That man. Amazing. So putting a bow on this, Beyond Glory. How are people going to be able to see this one? It's coming out on October 4th on iTunes. And so I guess you can pre-order it.

The trailer just was put on the internet. And I hope maybe my friend Josh Horowitz will put it on his website. To talk to him. He's now known as, I don't have a good nickname like slang. I need to. My names are hard to conflate into one thing. I'll think about that. Jorowitz. Doesn't sound that the same good thing.

I mean, I was working with Ray Leota lately, and he was talking about he really likes the name slang. And he said, what about mine? I don't really have one. Some guys call me Ray Ray, but I know. And I said, well, how about Raylo? He is working with Jaylo, so why not? And maybe you should have an affair with her, too, you know. Didn't hurt anybody's career.

Exactly. So October 4th, I'll look out for it on iTunes. And then on various other platforms. because I don't, you know, this whole way they're releasing films now is kind of beyond me, but gravitas ventures of the releasing company and they seem to know what they're doing. I'm sure VOD and everything you won't be able to miss it.

And, hey, if it's in a theater, check it out. Oh, don't breathe? Oh, well, don't breathe too, but I was saying Beyond Glory, but yes. I don't know that, you know, I don't know that Beyond Glory will get in a theater. Got it. You know the way it is these days. And also, I don't want to walk into the AMC on Columbus and 68th for the 3 o'clock show and see that there's absolutely nobody there, except me.

I can't take that. Well, don't breathe, on the other hand, a different kind of a crowd poiser. Will, I think, pack them in when it comes out. Honestly, as just someone that both enjoys your work and just enjoys the art of film and it being done well for that kind of genre, and it even transcends that genre, I think it's going to be a big hit. It's a good one. Thank you. I think so, too. And transcending the genre is exactly how I felt about it.

And I read it, when I worked on it, and when I saw it. Excellent. Well, one of the byproducts of working at MTV for years has been to get to know some actors that I greatly admire. You've been really kind to me over the years. Early on, when we were starting to just do my silly sketches, you were always game and did a couple really silly things with me that I'm always appreciative of. I know what? We're not doing one today? This was me at my classiest. This isn't my Charlie Rose version of myself. but don't worry

I'll get you into like a clown suit or something Let's do something stupid soon Soul, sold, buddy It's good to see you Can I call you slang? I wish you more. All right, thanks for coming soon. Thanks, brother.

Thanks, brother. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the L.A. Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from the league, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We love movies, and we come at them from different perspectives. Yeah, like Amy thinks that, you know, Joe Pesci was miscast in Goodfellas, and I don't.

He's too old. Let's not forget that Paul thinks that Dude, too, is overrated. It is. Anyway, despite this, we come together to host Unspool, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, must-season, and Casey Mistoms. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night. We've done deep dives on popcorn flicks.

We've talked about why Independence Day deserves a second look. And we've talked about horror movies, some that you've never even heard of like Ganges and Hess. So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic adventure. Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to hit the follow button.