Happy Sad Confused - Steve Zahn, Eugenio Derbez

Episode Date: August 18, 2021

We've got the best in film and TV accounted for on this episode of "Happy Sad Confused"! First up, Steve Zahn reflects on his career from "Reality Bites" and "That Thing You Do" to the hit new show "The White Lotus". Then, Josh and Eugenio Derbez, talk the Sundance hit, "Coda", which just debuted in theaters and Apple TV+! Don't forget to check out the Happy Sad Confused patreon here! We've got exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Get after him or have you shot You mean blow up the building From this moment on None of you are safe New episodes every Wednesday Wherever you get your podcasts Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now.

Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Steve Zahn, from Reality Bites and That Thing You Do to the White Lotus, plus Eugenio Derbez on one of the best films of the year, Coda. Hey guys, I'm Josh Harrow. Let's welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Two new guests on the podcast today, talking about two of my favorite recent projects, one of my favorite TV shows going on right now and truly one of my favorite movies I've seen in quite some time. So first up, let me tease

later on a conversation with a gentleman by the name of Eugenio Derbez. You probably either really know his work or have no idea who Eugenio is. It's kind of had this odd life where he is very much an international star. He's a huge star, particularly back home in Mexico, though he's broken through several times in American films in the last 10 plus years. But he is, like, he's one of these guys that, like, just exudes charm and charisma. You can see why he's a star, and it's been kind of fascinating to sort of see him dip into American films over the last decade. He was in Overboard with Ana Farras. He's been in animated films. He's not a ton of stuff. And he's currently taking a supporting role.

in a fantastic movie, a truly moving sweet film called Koda, in which he plays a music teacher who is kind of helping to inspire and teach a young woman who is the only hearing member of her family. The film is an ensemble piece, but it really stars a young woman named Amelia Jones, who is just fantastic, and I really think there are big things ahead for her, and she's just sings like an angel, and it's just, again, another very charismatic great performance. Marley Matlin, Oscar winner is in this one as well. Can't recommend this one highly enough. It's on Apple TV Plus. It's also in theaters Coda. We're going to talk to Eugenio about that a little bit later on, and you're going to fall in love with him because he's a charming,

charming gentleman. But first up, our extended conversation today, the big one today is with an actor I've always admired and bizarrely have never really had this kind of conversation with. Steve Zahn, one of those guys we all know and love always pops up in the least likely places and is always just authentic and real and fun. Of course, his first film, he hit it big with reality bites. He followed that up very soon thereafter with that thing you do. And he's one of these guys that just pops up every year or two in different genres of film and kind of keeps reiterating. and now is one of the ensemble members of the cast of The White Lotus on HBO. White Lotus, I believe by the time you hear this, has just ended its first season run on HBO.

I binged this early on. I got a chance to watch the screeners. It's from Mike White, who you may know as the creator of the TV show, Enlightened. He wrote the movie Chuck and Buck way back when a very unique voice in television and film. and the White Lotus, about a resort, a group of kind of not, I don't know, I wouldn't say endearing, I would say problematic screwed up individuals at a resort, all going through it individually and together. And Steve is part of this great ensemble that includes Jennifer Coolidge and Connie Britton and

Cindy Sweeney and Alexander Didary. It's just a great cast and a really absorbing, quirky, odd. drama at times, comedy at times, social satire at times, a special piece of work. The White Lotus, if you haven't checked it out, check it out on HBO. And had a great time chatting with Steve, who spends most of his time on a farm in Kentucky away from New York and L.A., just living his life, and somehow sneaks in these great film and TV works throughout the years. I should say, as much as I love Steve, the Wi-Fi could be better back home at Kentucky,

and he owned up to it. So this one, it's a little frustrating at times. It was for me at least a little bit. He goes in and out a little bit. There are some little bits where it kind of like stutters, go with it again, doing the best we can in these times of Zoom. But you'll get 95% of the conversation that it just might be some little bits and bobs that are a little hard to follow. But his charm is self-evident and it's a great chat. Two very charming gentlemen today. Eugenie O'Darbez and Steve Zahn. So that's a good show. Very pleased to present this one to you today. Also pleased to mention a couple other very exciting things. So stir crazy. For those of you that follow my work, stir crazy was kind of my baby in the last year of COVID that we created,

this Comedy Central talk show that was made basically in my apartment with the help of my friends at Comedy Central. It kind of ran its course, it did its thing, and then we decided to kind of reiterate, and it's now kind of been reborn with the very imaginatively titled, The Untitled Josh Horowitz Show. So what are the differences? I don't know. We're still kind of trying to figure that out. It's very similar to stir crazy. I'll be honest. That being said, hopefully, and there are plans afoot, to do some of these, hopefully a lot of these eventually, in person. And that would make me so happy. Zoom's fine. It works. We figured it out. But it would be great to mix in some in-person chats as well. So I'm so excited. Comedy Central. My show is back.

The first guest is Alexander Dadario that is up on Comedy Central's YouTube page. I think by the time you hear this actually, the Jody Comer episode should be up as well. So that's a nice one-two-punch. Jody, who of course has been on HappySick and Fused before on the podcast, got to have a fun, silly chat, some games with Jody about her new movie, Free Guy. Speaking of Free Guy, you can also check out my conversation with Ryan Reynolds. I did that for MTV News. That's on MTV News's YouTube page. Oh, my God.

I'm exhausting myself. So much content. What else can I tell you? We just taped a new game night. Not quite sure when we're dropping it pretty soon. You guys are going to enjoy this one. Some new folks, a returning gentleman. It's a good one.

Anyway, that's over at patreon.com slash happy. sad, confused. I'll release that pretty soon, I promise. So yeah, cool, cool things afoot on Game Night at the Patreon page. Am I missing anything? That feels like a lot, doesn't it? Hoo! I'm exhausted. Okay. Enjoy these conversations. As I said, the main event coming up right now, Steve Zahn, talking all things White Lotus and his very fascinating career. A little bit later on, if you want to be patient and stick around, check out a very fun, a little bit shorter chat with Eugenio de Rez. about Coda, the excellent new film on Apple TV Plus, an embarrassment of riches for you on Happy, Say, Confused, today.

Let's start it off with me and Steve Zon. It is my esteemed honor. This is a special moment in the annals of Happy Sack Confused. Finally, I don't know how Steve Zon has evaded my grasp this long, but welcome to the podcast, man. Thanks. I appreciate it. You're one of these actors. I've loved your work for so.

long. I've been doing this quite a while. I don't know what the universe has been keeping us apart, but damn it, here we are. I don't know. I had stuff to do. You're working. Every day, or if I'm not working, I have stuff to do, I'm, you know, do stuff. I hear you. And you are speaking to us from home base, from Kentucky. I'm speaking to you from my home base, New York. You have a history in New York, though. This is a part of your soul. Do you, Do you romanticize the good old days of being in New York? Yeah, I loved it there. I mean, it was like a, you know, I moved there, it was like 89, you know,

when you could live in the city and not have to be filthy rich. And, you know, there was neighborhoods. And there was like heap shows. You know, and, you know, those days. Oh, I know, I think fondly on that time there. And then I was there for a while. And I moved to Hoboken, lived there, up on Washington Street. And that was a great place.

And then moved out. You know, my wife and my girlfriend at the time, but we were on this national tour. And we saved up all this money, all this money for us. It was like, you know, we'd hit the jackpot. But we bought this cabin in the Poconos. We thought, this is going to be our weekend. place. And we stopped working. And then it became our place. We had to get rid of our apartment. So we've always kind of been outside. Right. You know, we were kind of an adult daycare for our

friends who would come out and play bed. Now it's a real test of the friends, the ones that come all the way out to where you are now. That's real friendship. It's true. It's true. It does feel like when I see when I've seen like your conversations in the last, what, like 15 or 16 years since you moved out there. Like, I feel like we treat you like a zoo animal. You're like, wait, you live where? How do you? What? Like, and I'm, I'm as guilty as it of it as anybody. I'm a born and bred New Yorker. I'm a snob, but I'm like, he lives where? How does this even work? Yeah, it kind of makes interviews easy because you just start talking about like, you know, you know, your horses and then it's, yeah. Right. But, well, yeah, I mean, it is unique, I guess.

it's not to us because this has always been our lives and and you know I just never wanted I you know I used to get more crap for not living in like Santa Monica or in Chelsea and I just kind of told them look I live in I live in Santa Monica okay just assume I live in Santa Monica and let me deal with the logistics involved with getting to where you think I have to be right and then it was during dropped in meetings and things like that became more important. I mean, if I flew in to meet someone, it changed the dynamic of a meeting with a director or a, you know. Yeah, yeah, this guy's willing to, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Obviously, you know, I'm here. So going back to, I'm just curious about the New York days because I know you came from kind of like you found a tribe. You found a few actors that you called friends. and that you've kind of like interacted with the different points in your career. I mean, Ethan Hawke, like every few years, you guys just still intersect. And it's even good Lord Bird really recently. Is he somebody that you immediately, do you remember meeting Ethan? And did you guys click immediately?

Yeah, yeah. Ethan, we did a play at Playwright's Horizons called Sophistry, written by Jonathan Mark Sherman. And that's where I kind of met a bunch of those guys, you know. Robert Sean Leonard, Josh Hamilton, and Frank Whaley, you know, all those guys and that started a theater company and we, we, you know, rented a theater on 42nd Street. We did, we did young American playwrights. You know, we wanted theater to be inexpensive and great for young people. And yeah, it was really exciting. It was really fun. And Ethan and I work like, I forget. One time we did. We did sophistry, we did reality bites. We came back and did sophistry, a second run of sophistry.

And then we did another play. We did like four gigs in a row. It was very strange. Wow. So we're right. You know, Sam Rockwell, all those, all those guys, you know, that were around like hanging out and those are fond memories and, you know,

their early theater days. It's cool to also look at like the, that amazing group you just talked about and to look at the varied careers all of you have had and like, you know, one person's had a high and other person's had a dip. It's like, it's just like the nature of the business and the roller coaster. And it's just, there's something, there's something kind of beautiful about it to see sort of everybody's had their moments. You're all good. Yeah, yeah. And that'll continue, you know, as we get older. It's just, it's, it's never, you know, never like this. It's never this gradual, you know, it's, it's, it's always like cliffs, man.

And then, and then you get bumped up and then you, and then you come back down. And, you know, and I'm addicted to that, really, you know, the beauty of being an actor is you never truly freak out with unemployment or, you know, even during COVID, like of a, the initial, like last year, I didn't morph for eight months. Yeah. And we. all kind of we're all we're talking and in texting and facetiming and we're like yeah but with actors it's like yeah okay something will happen well that's i don't know i've talked to a lot of actors that don't necessarily think that way i think that comes with experience and enough varied work that you at this point i mean you didn't feel that way at 27 probably you probably were like yeah but i was

dumber. Yeah, you had that advantage. Ignorance. Yeah, you know, hubris and yeah, exactly. Let's go to, you know, West Bank Cafe or where, no, what was that place on West Jane and Forth? That's okay. Well, we'll find out from Rockwell. So Rockwell's a buddy of mine as well. And I was, I was actually just texting with Leslie last night. And she was saying that he still remains obsessed with you. And she claims that you might be as good a dancer. as Sammy. Who's the better dancer? You or Rockwell? Well, Sammy's got more of a kind of a impromptu kind of, he's like, he's got this like wild, you know, just rhythm built in. I need a little more practice, but I can dance. I can move for sure. But yeah, he's a shame. He'll put it into any part. Like it doesn't even have to fit the role. And suddenly there's like in the middle of

A Lincoln's biopic, there's a giant dance number for some reason. Totally. Oh, God. So you were referencing earlier, yes, the weirdness of last year, this pandemic where everybody's life to different degrees were on pause. And then this must have felt like an amazing gift. I'm obsessed with this show. I was just telling, Dom, your publicist, I just binged White Lotus and I just loved it. I've always been a Mike White fan.

But talk to me about, like, does this feel like this was a gift from heaven? Like, wait, I get to work with Mike White. I get to kind of escape for a couple months. How did it come about? Yeah, no, it was out of the blue, truly. And, you know, I was at that point. I mean, luckily, you know, my wife doesn't act anymore. She's a New York Times bestselling author.

She writes. So the good thing about that is Robin was writing. um her ass off and keeping us afloat but i mean yeah i would have played a janitor and some nicolodian show you know that would have been a surprise i'm flipping channels and i see wait maybe sam and i could have done that yeah the two buddy janitors on you can't do that on television i would watch that yeah but no and i and i and i got the script and i was like hey it's mike I'm like, oh, geez. And then I read it, and I was just blown away by it.

And character was amazing. And then they were like, yeah, it's Hawaii. I'm like, okay, well, what else sucks about this? I mean, there's absolutely nothing that, that, you know, it's really an amazing, an amazing opportunity at a horrible time, you know. And then getting there, quarantining. And then, but the whole structure, you know, quarantining at that time really helped the show. I mean, it made all of us just hunker down together.

Like, I've never done a show where I was, where I knew all the crew people, like, we had dinner with everybody where the extras stayed in the hotel. I mean, it's crazy. Right. So we all got really tight. And, and I mean, it would have been a good show without that. I really think that that bleeds through in the final, you know. It's, it's, it is. And it's an amazing ensemble from you and Connie,

Audario, the amazing Jennifer Coolidge. Like everybody's just firing on all cylinders in this. And Mike is clearly just such a gifted, unique writer. I've always been a fan just from Chuck and Buck on. He always surprises in the best possible ways. No, he's a master. I mean, you know, HBO called him and said, hey, can you do something?

like during the pandemic. Right. Is there something? And he wrote it like in, you know, starting in August and we were shooting in October. I mean, that's really masterful. Yeah. You know? And he's as good of a director as he is a writer.

And he's an amazing writer. I mean, it's really, really an incredible artist. Do you find it's been helpful over the years? Like, do you as an actor chase creative types, like writers or directors you like? Or is that not fruitful? Does it feel like they know me? I've been doing this a while. If they like me, if they're interested, they'll come around to me.

Like, what's been your philosophy over the years? Like, do you have the secret list that you've tried to manifest or what? There's always people, like, you watch a movie and go, oh, my God. You know, the last cow. Oh, God, I got to work for a man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, Kelly Riker. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

last cow sounds completely last cow ever last cow ever oh no first cow first cow was brilliant yeah and i'm like i i i would she's amazing like brilliant yeah you know something things like that or yeah it's it kind of goes back to that whole like let's start a theater company and and and put on a show um you know fred who played my son on the white lotus young guy i mean to me he's he's like a pal he's an he's a equal you know playing field amazing actor and yet he's 21 he's same age as my my son you know it's it's to mix with people like that and be inspired by that that's what you want and that's why we'll do it for free i'm telling anyone but we will not to mention it's rich material i mean this character you meet this guy and

and he's in the middle of this, like, existential crisis. Like, this gives you something to chew on right from the get-go. In the first episode alone, he thinks he's dying. You get prosthetic testicles. What more can you want for an actor? I know. He's having the worst week of all time. Right.

I mean, he's challenged left and right, and he's up and down. And, yeah, I mean, it was just, yeah, the blueprint was so, you know, obvious for all of us. and you don't always get it and go into a gig with it being that clear well i know my journey is i know who my guy is yeah now the tone of it we had to figure out a little bit which which came from mike you know is this is the funny here or is it the funny here or we're you know and i was coming in here and mike you know day one just brought me back to here and i was like okay i got it what does he like what does he literally say to you he's just like a little less a little less broad, a little less big?

Or what's he saying? I mean, he knew exactly what he wanted, which is, you know, he just wanted it to be real. Yeah. He just wanted to be really real. And it's hard to do, you know, depending on the material. But this, this lent itself to real. Well, he, I feel like he's always kind of like reveled in the awkward,

which life can be a lot of the time. I don't know about you. My day is filled with awkward moments. And Mike White has never shied away from the weirdness of humans with other humans. Yeah. It's really beautiful. And then and then the contrast of the of nature, which I loved about this show. Right. You know, the water and whales. And really, it just, you know, put up against that. It's, we're just ridiculous. did you feel that like like do you get that insignificant feeling when you're when you're doing something like this and you and you know it's tackling those themes you're like oh wait especially in the middle of a global pandemic like oh god we're just insects we're just struggling

to survive amidst amidst nature yeah and it's liberating to know how insignificant you really are yeah you know and we're going through that while we were shooting it you know you have a few hours off and you go snorkel and see a tortoise that's a hundred 20 years old that was alive when the Titanic sank. I mean, that to me, it blows my mind, you know, and it's still around. And I'm worried about my, no. His damn Wi-Fi in Kentucky. Yeah.

Extra back fat. Sorry, the Wi-Fi spotted up on us for a second. So some bittersweet news. I mean, I'm very excited about this. The show's been renewed. I guess we don't get to see you guys again. They're going to treat it as kind of like a whole new cast. Is that the word on the street?

Yeah, I haven't heard much. I mean, you probably know more than I do. But we talked about it during when we were shooting. Because I know HBO when we were shooting, they were really excited about it. They were like, oh, my God, they really love this. They, you know, they're already thinking, and how do we do this again? And we knew that you couldn't do it unless you followed Jennifer, you know, to Germany or whatever. Yeah, this whole collective group is not going to journey together to another location.

Oh, my God, this is such a weird collection. You can hear a Gilgan's Island kind of thing. Maybe you're all stranded together somewhere. Yeah. Yeah, so, you know, it'll happen again, and Mike will make it amazing, and it'll be just as interesting, and, you know, it will be wherever in the Alps or wherever Mike wants to go. The man's been on the amazing race.

He knows the globe. He'll travel wherever. Yeah. So indulge me, we started talking a little bit about New York in the beginning, but let's journey back for a second, too, because, you know, I was the right age for reality bites, hitting out the right time. That was your film debut. It's a hell of a way to start a career. When you look back at that experience, did you know what the hell you were doing? Did you feel like ready for film at that point? Or do you look back at it saying, I was just kind of like faking my way through it? well no i was i was really scared i remember i remember just because no one it no one takes you you know there's no class all that stuff you have to and you kind of go in pretending yeah i know what i'm doing where's what's my mark you know and all that stuff is oh i'm the blue mark and i have to stand there off focus got it got it and i can't move too fast because if i move too fast it's out focus and then they won't use it so that performance it so all those little things you have to really

kind of figure out and I kind of freaked out about it but I do remember going you know being in theater and doing really good theater and challenging theater and and being an confident actor but then going to like rehearsal for film I was you know over prepared and you know I thought we were going to sit around, you know, with the dramaturg kind of, you know, like a part of the scenes. And it was really, you know, there was tape on the floor and no one knew their lines. And I was like, oh, wait, no, I got this. My God.

And I learned in that moment, like, oh, if you just overprepare. And I overprepared out of complete fear of sucking, you know. and a total insecurity. So, but when you do that, you're really on top. I mean, you're way ahead of the. So I was pleasantly surprised that, yeah, I can, I can do this, definitely. That's a little sad to me that it's like the bar is that low is like that there will, that people just don't do the basics and come to a set knowing their lines being ready. Yeah, sometimes, but, but yeah, it's weird.

I mean, most people aren't, most actors aren't. like that, but you do run into people every once in a while that don't prepare, which I think is so bold. It's unbelievable. You know, like White Lotus, Fred and I, we rehearsed every scene a hundred times in my room. Right. I mean, it was like, we had them down to the point of where, how do you want us to do this, you know? So coming out of, where, we, reality bites did you have like a the idea of like what a film or TV career would look like did you have like a model in mind of what what's pursue or what to emulate or no no not really i didn't i i really just kind i didn't look that far down the road i mean you know i i young and

dumb and just kind of like what's next man you know what's next am i going to do go do another play am i going to and it it wasn't until you know like the whole thing is such a it's screws you up because you know i remember coming back from reality bites and i was i was poorer than when i went there and i remember i remember going wait this is up man i i don't i have less money how is that got to save that per diem you got to be managed manage and so you know and and you as a character actor you don't really get recognized for anything until you know movie 17 right depending on what those movies are so there's all these things that you think it's going to be and it's not so you don't have any expectations you're

just like i'm just paying my rent man you know did you did you have a sense though at some point where like you i think you've talked about this before like there literally was or is like a steve zon type that has been referred to like you must have had that realization at some point that like you had done a few indelible performances of a certain stripe that in the good way kind of like cemented your kind of identity and and maybe a bad way typecast you did you have do you remember like when that happened when there was kind of a Steve's on archetype created I don't know I mean I think it's like I do remember someone saying yeah I went to an audition they told me be like you like really

Why didn't they call me? I'm available. I'm around, yeah. I can do it like me. But I don't know when that was. I mean, I really, honestly, it's such a gradual thing for me. I mean, that thing you do kind of did some things and put me on a different platform. And, you know, I know an out of sight did something.

And then, you know, it's just interesting because sometimes you work on films that you think are brilliant. And you're really proud of your performance, but no one saw it. Yeah. But in your head, you're like, no, that was great work. And I'm so proud of that movie. And it's very strange. What's an example of that? Because I mean, I remember back in the day, I feel like you were, you were like

Sundance guy. Every year, there was like a cool Sundance film with Steve Zong. I remember being up for meet the parents. It was like me and Ben, you know. and then there was another movie called Happy Texas that I loved and you know at the time when you're auditioning and you're up for stuff you're not going you know you don't know what movie is going to hit or not and and I really wanted to do Happy Texas so I did it and then Miramax bought it and it was like the biggest acquisition at my sundance broke all these records

yeah and I think ironically the movie that beat it that broke that record was like Little is sunshine. Right, right. And, and, and, and, and, you know, it, it, it wasn't released. It was released like two houses. And I was doing press for it and everything, and there's a whole story behind that. But, but, like, if that was released, I really think that movie would have, would have changed things in a different way, you know, for sure, because it was a really, you know,

it was a good movie. Well, it's funny. It's so much, I mean, this is a constant refrain. the conversations I have with actors. So much of it, you know, people have the, have the false notion that actors are in control of their own careers. And the reality is that like two percent have the luxury of like a lot of choice. Unless your name is Tom Cruise of George Clooney, most of your career are taking what's available. I mean, and I know for you, like you've talked about like that thing you do was an amazing opportunity. And obviously one of the high water

marks I would say in a great film career. But like, I know you wanted courage under fire. at the time, right? That was the other one you were going after. And that's a different path. That's a different career. Isn't that crazy? A completely different thing. Yeah, me and Matt were up for that. Like, you know, sometimes you think you're up or stuff. I know that it was like me and Matt Damon, I think, for that with Ed Zwick, you know, directing. And it was, I wanted that so bad, you know, and then I didn't get it. And it was so upset and I was so bummed out. Damon is great, and it, you know, it was just like, and then I got that thing you do, which is a complete different avenue, but I mean, you know, you come out of acting school

and you're playing, you're an ingenue, you know, you're, right, you're playing young lover, and then, and then someone, you play a stoner, and all of a sudden you're a stone guy for 10 years, you know, it's pretty interesting. Well, that makes it's funny. And then, and then eventually get older and you're not stone guy anymore. Right. You know, well, and it's interesting. Like, Speaking of, like, you know, stoner guy, like, yes, you're playing some parts that are similar, but it's also a wide array of different kind of films. Like, I think of that period in, like, the late 90s, and we talk about that thing you do, but we also talk about, like, safe men and out of sight, and you've got mail.

Like, you can't, like, I mean, like, Nora Ephron to Soderberg, like, you're getting some variety in there, even if you're playing similar types. Oh, totally. Yeah, I mean, I think back, you know, I wish I was a little more aware of, what was happening as it was happening. Right. Because I was, I was so lucky to work with such amazing people. Even if it was smaller stuff and a bigger movie, you know, like, you've got mail, you know,

you know, with Nora, I had a much bigger part. My love interest was cut from that movie. Okay. Can I bring this up? Because I've long-headed obsession. So first of all, I grew up on the Upper West Side. So you've got male when I was growing up was like a big thing. Like I love, I love Nora's work.

So I've always been obsessed with a subplot and you've got mail about the rooftop killer. My, I've always wanted, here's my spin-off idea. If Nora, sadly, we're still with us. I would pitch this to her. I want the film about the cops chasing the rooftop killer. It's a drama going on in the background of You've Got Mail and there's a serial killer. It's such a weird, odd subplot in a beautiful romantic comedy. And I know your character was very much involved in that subpoena.

plot right yeah because i the detective investigating this killer comes to my apartment and i can't i can't even remember like the scenes or but but basically it was really funny we you know she's interviewing me where i'm looking at her in this weird way we can't we we we we have to kiss like there's nothing said there's that we just start making out and we we we we just start making out and we just we're just this this force of sex and love and sweating and we can't be away from each other it's just like and and so my co-workers are just baffled with this you know here's this nerdy guy and this and here i am you know like on this the greatest love you know whatever ever and and so there were all these just funny kind of scenes these great scenes with this with my my love that was this

detective and then i remember going to looping and yeah she was like hey we had to cut that your love interest i was like oh it's tragic but then i was like oh wait then you're wait you're wait you're cutting mice right wait i was in those scenes with my love interest why am i in the movie she's like no no no it's gonna be okay we're working you know it's just like oh no it's it's amazing when i discovered that in recent years that there was more to the rooftop killer subplot i like justification because it always felt like there was unfinished business in that one movie who are you going to cut tom no we skipped we skipped over one early film that i'm fascinated by you you popped up in uh in crimson tide the great tony scott with some of like the acting titans of the time were you i'm always obsessed with jean hackman jean hackman always comes up on this

podcast was he intimidating he seemed like i mean he's still around but he's he seems like doesn't suffer fools he's a tough one. Yeah, no, for sure. But like an actor, like, you know, like a, and not like a mean guy or right. He was just like, yeah, he would just had this, it was Gene Hackman, man. Yeah, people just kind of bowed down to him. I mean, it was, yeah, that was a, that was a great experience. Tony Scott was so amazing. He was one of the most, like, I've never seen anybody able to, like, he had this incredible gift of controlling some people just have this some people freak out and you can tell they're like maybe in over their heads and they're and they're pretending to be stronger than they are just so they can control each day and each like crazy you know and that was a huge movie

for at the time and even by today's standards and and he was just like cool as a cucumber man and everybody loved him. He was never, he was always joking. He was, he was, he was a great director. And I, you know, I was one of the guys in the stuff, you know. Right. I didn't have a lot of stuff. I played a lot of poker.

I remember that in the trailers. That's a good cast to hang out with. I mean, like, Vigo only had a couple scenes too. You were in good company there. So, you know. He was really fun. So. Yeah.

No, I mean, yeah. And I totally. I'm with you and everything you said about Tony. His loss is significant. He was so confident behind the camera, and there were a few like him. And then on the other, like another much different kind of filmmaker.

I know this is a part that's close to your heart. You got to work with the great Werner Herzog on Rescue Dawn. And, you know, talk to me a little bit about the significance of like, that sounds to me from everything I've read or heard you say was a very special role that you chased. And why was it so? Well, for one thing, I was a huge fan.

And that's one of those that we were talking before, where you go, if I could ever get the chance to work with that guy, I would do it. And everybody on that set, everybody said the same thing. They were like, I'll do anything. I just want to work with the guy. But then he made a movie called Little Dieter Needs Fly, which is this amazing documentary about Dieter Dengler, who is, you know, Christian plays in the movie. and that movie that that documentary moved me to i loved that that was so cathartic i remember when i saw that the first time and then when i heard that he was making

verner was making movie of you know i was like oh man i have to meet him i have to talk i have to it it's the kiss of death to go in and just open your chest and right you know let them know your passion it just it never works you know i have so many stories about that like you have to hire me there's no one get okay and you know i'm not even an extra you got to be above it all like yeah i could take it or leave it and then they actually want you have to do that you know but uh but yeah no and i and i got a meeting with them you know and and it was like made me a stake at his house in l-a and i and i had to borrow us i borrowed a sport

coat from the front i was shooting something i was like i need a sport i want to look good and i got like i went just i you know at the time i didn't know much about wine i just got like a you know a hundred thirty dollar bottle of wine and i was like a year he was like oh my god this is amazing and he cooked me a steak and we talked and he cooked two steaks and i was watching him like cook steaks and he didn't have a tv i remember and he just showed me journals and art and it was incredible and from that meeting he was like i want you to play duane and i was i was thrilled it was one of the only times in my career where i i i had a gig you know four months ahead or five months you know yeah and i started losing weight and i was just totally into it you know and when

you're on set of something like that is it just i mean obviously christian is so dedicated like he's infamously it just like will go to any length necessary and you clearly were invested does that does that set experience stand apart in terms of just like I don't know how extreme it was in the best possible way oh yeah yeah it was insane I mean it was a little movie right it wasn't a lot of money and we're in Thailand and and I think they're bringing cash in like from a plane You know, like, it was crazy. Like, you know, one day the teamsters weren't paid or that, those guys. And then so, Werner was saying, we're going to go to study.

And we're going to break the doors and we're going to shoot. We don't eat lights. It's just incredible stuff. That's what you want. That's what you want in a Bernard Herzog film. You want the full experience, right? Christian was so funny. Oh, my God.

That guy is so funny. He's a, he's one of the funniest. dudes I've ever worked with. And we had so much fun and we laughed so much. But it was really our gig for sure. I'm sure. It shows it on the screen, but it paid off. Another one that I know was difficult, but also creatively very fulfilling.

It's one of the few times actually we chatted. I moderated a big Q&A for War of the Plan of the Apes here in New York. And I just adore Matt Reeves. I think he's just, I know he's a, like again, a very like singular. director very focused and like we'll just you know in the best possible way um but man nobody can create like that kind of spectacle like him talk to me about and this was your first kind of performance captured experience was that a kind of a game changer for you yeah totally i mean that was a that was a that was a talk about being scared i mean i was so intimidated by that whole

thing yeah and and then i remember my first day it was i was just i was just petrified because i was i was i had to go out and pretend I was a monkey. People, you know, I've been practicing in my hotel and I killed it in my hotel by myself. I was like, look, chimpanzee. A plus, dude. And then I, but then you go and you put the whole thing on

and I'm going to act with Andy and all these guys that have done it like their third movie or whatever. And I'm like, and you know, the sets built and it's like, It took like three months to build my set, it's my set, you know, and you go in. But I remember Matt, Matt treated it like we were, we were doing, we were having play rehearsal, a rehearsal for King Lear. Yeah. And we sat for an hour and we just talked and worked on the scene and we did.

And it totally eased me into, oh, wait, this is not, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is acting this is and it totally blew me away i thought it would be this technical kind of wizardry and i'd kind of figure out all these technical things and it really wasn't the case yeah no it strips it down to the basics it actually goes back to the essentials doesn't it it's kind of crazy so much fun yeah that was a that was fun so talk to me i mean coming a little full circle as we wrap up i'm just curious like you know we talked a little bit about that that merry go around that roller coaster that actors go on that every good actor goes on if you're so lucky to make your career,

your life. What's your philosophy like in recent years? Like, again, do you kind of like, you know, you've played the leading guy, you've been the character guy, you've been the sidekick, you've done TV, you've done film, you've done theater. Like, do you, again, is at this point, is the philosophy kind of the same as it was 20 years ago, or are you more

calculated about what you want or what you want to do? No, I'm less calculated. Really? I mean, you know, I don't know what's going to happen. Are there going to be less opportunities. Are there, you know, as they get older, you know, I just love doing this. I'm so lucky. And I still feel like it's day one. You know, when I work on a script, I work on it. Like I worked on Biloxi Blues in 1986, you know, yeah. I, I don't know any other way of doing it. And, and like you said, I don't sit down and go, like, read scripts and go, like, baby pile, no pile, and death, you know, I just don't, you know, I don't have that, that luxury. Now, I do turn things down that I don't get excited about or I don't see myself in, but it's

almost like I'm, I kind of work harder now, you know, because it's harder to shape shift in front of people that know what you do. Yeah, it's kind of exciting because it's like you've transcended, like you went through that period, like, as we kind of alluded to earlier, where you were, like, of a certain age and playing that young kind of stoner type. And now it's kind of like, it kind of gets more interesting. Like, now it's like, you can be the dad, you can be the side, you can be the lead, you can do it all.

And you have the body of work that shows you can kind of like, I would argue, like, people like you, like Rockwell, you make it look so easy and seamless, that's the, and that's the mark of a great actor. And like, I think it's just, it seems like it's just, getting better and better. So I hope it feels that way to you. I feel comfortable doing. I love being on set. I love working. Yeah. I love the circus. I love being a part of it. And that's what drives me. It's it. That's it. I mean, all the other stuff that's attached to

this business, I really, I don't really, it's fine. It's whatever. Yeah. Going to festival stuff. that's great but but i just love to work and that's why covid was hard because sitting on set and shooting the shit with people and having fun was minimized because of masks and protocol is is there is there work on the horizon right now are you in kind of like a wait-and-see mode well as you can tell my beard's pretty wicked notice that means that i'm waiting that's a dead giveaway that you're in between yeah this is this is options right i see yeah this is this is so you can show the director what do you want what do you need state trooper 1983 right there um you know pirate uh one of cook one of custer's guys right there there's a lot of options right

there. I mean, I really like to mask. I really do. It's really about masking. It's like, you know, maybe the next guy has a wicked beard. I don't know. All I want in life is you and Rockwell back together again, some wicked beards. How long has it been since you guys did, I mean, you did Safe Men way back in the day. What have you done? Have you done anything recently? Well, we did. We worked on Blaze. Right. With Ethan. And that was fun. Just like a reunion. We went down like for three days and that was so much fun right but um but yeah and i'm just you know when i have all these tapes these like from you know the camera and i used to take a lot of video and i never watched any of it and a friend of mine is now making a digital and right and you know and

and i two days ago there's this stuff with me and sam in my kitchen you know in a farmhouse in Jersey rehearsing safe men and I was like oh my god I can't wait to I can't wait to say I'm gonna send him that and he's have to it it'll blow his mind that's I love it I love it I did I did a book way back when of like young filmmakers at the time like 20 years ago and John Hamburg was one of the the guys like profiled and that of course was I think that was his first film at the time so well anyway as you can tell we've got some common people in our lives I'm thrilled that finally we connected. We conquered the spotty Wi-Fi in Kentucky. I think we did it. Congratulations, man, on White Lotus. As you can tell, I'm a big fan of this project,

and I'm a big fan of yours. And hopefully we'll continue to connect in the future, man. Yeah, right on. Anytime. Yeah, that was a really good conversation. Thank you. Eugenio, welcome to the Happy Second Fused podcast. It's a real pleasure. I'm a fan of your work. And I am in awe of this movie. This movie is a special. And congratulations, ma'am. It is. I'm glad you liked it.

I love this project. You know, I was working at Lionsgate like probably four years ago. And Patrick, one of the producers now, showed me the original movie back then. And I loved it. I was really crazy about it. And I was thinking about probably adapting it, because I'm a more a comedian. So my background comes from comedy.

And I thought that probably this was more a drama, more than a comedy. So I loved the project, but I thought it was probably not exactly what my audience was expecting for me as producing as me starring. So at the end I didn't end up making it, but years later, it came back to me as an actor and I was crazy about it.

I immediately said yes and the result blow my mind. No, I mean, I guess it's, you know, it's that all that is yes, it was meant to be, but this one, for those that don't know, Coda is a film that ironically debuted kind of at that virtual Sundance. I go to Sundance every year, sadly. Obviously, it wasn't the normal Sundance.

This movie would have blown the roof off of the place. It is such a crowd movie. It's about a young woman in Gloucester Mass, who is the only hearing member of her family. She has aspirations to be a singer, and it is just so moving and powerful and sweet and funny and surprising in the best possible ways. And as you said, you're part of the same.

great ensemble in this film. You're her teacher, kind of her mentor. And I mean this in the best possible way. Like, I'm surprised you're in this movie, because like this, as you kind of alluded to, your comedy generally tends to be a little bit broader, which we love, but you kind of have to kind of rein it back in in this one and play a supporting role. Was that a fun adjustment for you? Was that kind of something that you had to, like, be mindful of, like, I need to make sure I fit into the vibe of this movie. Absolutely. I was always worried and conscious that I, that there was a completely different thing.

I was born and raised in Mexico City. And I did my entire career around comedy, as I told you before. I had my own comedy shows. And when I was in Mexico, I always wanted to do movies, a little bit of drama. also and nobody wanted to hire me because even though I was like the my shows were the most popular shows in not in just in Mexico but in Latin America right yeah God yeah but my image was linked to the you know comedy so nobody wanted to give me a chance in drama they said no you know if I put you in my movie people are going to laugh and I don't want people to laugh because this is a drama

whatever. So now that I am working here in the U.S., and nobody knows my background, I mean, few people, but not everyone, when I got this opportunity, I was like shocked. I was so happy. But at the same time, I knew I had to be like very contained. So I was always like reminding myself you need to be very careful, very contained. It was a challenge for me because I usually am brother and I have to be really contained in this role. Well, you totally fit in. I mean, and the ensemble is fantastic. And it's funny, like the way you talk about it, like you turn kind of what might be perceived as a disadvantage to your advantage. The fact that like in the American market still to some degree, you're clearly have a different kind of profile,

but you've kind of used, I wouldn't say it's anonymity because you're still very well known here. But you have more of a clean slate to experiment and do kinds of things you wouldn't necessarily do probably back home. Absolutely. And I'm aware. I'm a very well-known phase for all the Latinos here in the US

and in Latin America. But for the general market, for the Americans, I'm a new phase. And that's good. I love that. It's like living these two lives at the same time. So the story of Ruby is interesting. I wonder if you relate to it on any level because like she is somebody who,

it's a very loving family. I kind of love this movie because there's really no bad guy in the movie. But they still, there's a disconnect because there's nobody in the arts in this family. This is a working class fishing family. And to hear that this young woman wants to sing is just like it doesn't make any sense.

No, they don't. But my sense in reading up on you, I mean, like the arts were part of your family, clearly. Was there any kind of like were you just, did you feel born into this? Was there any kind of like when you proclaimed your interest in pursuing the arts, I would imagine in your family it was pretty well received. This is what we do. Yes, but I think anyone can relate to this story because usually I learned that a lot of parents, they want their kids to be, if you're a doctor, you want your kid to be a doctor. You're an architect. You want your kid to be an architect.

or whatever. Right. And especially when anyone, any kid, want to become an actor or a singer or a dancer, they usually have to face a lot of, yeah, a lot of trouble because they feel that this is not something, I don't know how to name it, probably profitable or decent or professional. It happened to me when I was young and I said, I want to be an actor.

Everyone was like, uh-huh, but, uh, but what do you want to be when you're grown up as a professional? I was like, an actor. Yeah, no, no, no, but I'm talking about a career, a real career. And we're like, what are you talking about? So that's the perception. People think that acting or singing, it's like just a hobby, not a professional career. And so I think anyone can be related, feel really. related to this movie because it talks about how your family probably doesn't understand your dreams,

your, what you want to do, what you want to do for a living, especially in this case we're talking about a family that they don't hear anything. So they don't understand singing. They don't understand music. They know they hear the rhythm. They feel the vibration of the bad. Yes, but they don't get what is singing. So there's a beautiful scene where they are, like, looking at their daughter. It's not exactly in a spoiler. No, it's not a spoiler. But they are watching people reacting to the singer of their daughter,

and it's a beautiful scene because they don't get it. Yeah. So that's why they're a little bit against that because they don't understand that world. It's a beautiful movie. It's a great mix that the director found. in the casting of this. Like, obviously, again, as we've alluded to, you're well-known.

Marley Matlin certainly people know she's an Oscar winner. And then you have people like Amelia who's at the heart of this, the young actress, who's the lead. And, you know, I just put, I wrote this on social media the other day when I was watching.

I was watching the film for the second time. I have to watch a lot of movies. I don't watch movies twice, but I wanted to watch this the second time. Yeah, no, truly. And, but like, again, without any spoilers, there's a scene towards the end of this movie with a song and you're involved

that I was just watching. watching and I'm like, this is, I'm watching a movie star become a movie star. And did you have that sense on set? Was she singing live? Like, did you feel that in the moment working with Amelia? I'm feeling chills right now, just by remembering. I was at the piano, playing the piano with her. And every time, I remember that it was, we were shooting that scene for many, many hours and no matter the amount of hours we were there every time she was singing you could feel the energy it was beautiful we were not tired of hearing her singing and exactly i thought the same thing this this girl is a star we're i'm watching a star being born and the most the funniest thing is

that I asked her for how long you've been singing. And she said, like, this is my first time. Oh, why are you talking about? And she said, yeah, I mean, I used to sing in the shower, but that's it. I didn't know I could sing. So for her, she took lessons, singing lessons for this movie, and this was her first time singing.

So it was incredible to watch that, to be the witness of that. I can, yeah, I feel like they're like, That doesn't happen very often to watch it kind of happen in real time, and it's a very special thing to witness. I mean, your character is supportive, but can kind of, like, deliver a little bit tough love at times. I'm curious for you as an actor, have you had those moments of mentors

that have had to kind of deliver tough love lessons to you, kind of like stern but encouraging guidance to you? What's been helpful to you to hear from mentors over the years as you pursue your craft? Well, I think that all of us have experienced this to be with a teacher who's really tough, a teacher that maybe you end up hating because he's mean or he's tough, he's very demanding. But at the end, you realize, at the end of the year, probably or anything, you realize that that teacher really cares.

That's why he's that way. And in my case, I was trying to make a character of this mean. It's not that he's mean, but it comes from love, you know? Yeah. He cares so much about Ruby. He knows that she has the talent to become a singer, that she pushes her to the limits

because he wants her to be. successful. And the background story that I made, I worked with Sean, the director about my character, and we made up this story where he supposedly, he was a very successful, he had a band in Mexico or Latin America, and then he tried to do crossover, and he failed. So he ends up teaching classes, but he loves music, and he's so passionate about music. He's not playing around. He's He's not wasting his time. He really wants her to succeed because he loves music and he wants her to become something that he couldn't.

And that's why he's so exigent. And it's beautiful because it comes from love. But sometimes he's mean. But it's just because he's pushing her. I want you to know, there's a powerful sense of that. I think that's like an indicator of why this movie works is like while maybe not a lot of that is on the screen, what you just described, enough of it is that, like, you can sense that this, this guy's lived

a life. There's another story here. And you know that the scene before this and the scene after this, there's a, there's a story. That's interesting. It's not this story necessarily, but it's something worth pondering, perhaps, of your friends. Exactly. That was the idea, yeah. So, so as we close out, I'm just curious, you know, you alluded to, you've had this kind of interesting, this fascinating career, really, especially in the last decade where you've kind of like, transitioned into more stuff in America, American productions. Does it experience like this prove anything to you, change your attitude at all? This is a smaller film.

This is not a film that has a $50 million budget, but arguably it's probably the most resonant American production you've been a part of, supporting parts, small film. There might be, are there lessons there? Yeah, absolutely. I actually, I've been struggling. a lot. Let me tell you why. I was, as I told you before, I was born and raised in Mexico City and I did my entire career in Mexico. And when I was at the probably the highest point of my career, I always wanted, of course, to come to Hollywood, but I thought it was too hard. I tried

a couple of times to some stuff here in the U.S. and nothing happened. I did a movie with Adam Sandler called Jack and Jill. Right. I did a Broadway play. I did a series with Rob Schneider called Rob on CBS. But nothing happened, really. My life didn't change. So I quit.

And I went back to my country and said, I'm going to forget about the American dream. And all of a sudden, I did a movie called Instructions Not Included. Right. And all of a sudden, from one day to another, my life changed. it became the highest grossing Spanish language film ever worldwide. And my agents called me and said, it's now or never.

So I had to make a decision and take a leap of faith. And I left everything behind. I shut down my office, my life. And everyone was like, you're crazy. You're not a teenager anymore. What are you doing? And I just shut down everything. and I came to this country to start from scratch in a certain way.

And when I came here and I started doing all this commercial movies that have been really successful, thank God, I'm very grateful. But I really wanted to do something else. I felt that now here that I could have a fresh start, I didn't want just to do commercial movies. So when I was doing CODA, I said, this is the kind of film that I want to do. I mean, of course, I know that my audience, they want something more commercial like the movies I do. But this is what my soul and my heart want to do more than commercial movies.

So I think I find, I'm finding finally the balance of what I want to do versus what I, I'm supposed to do. Yes, exactly. Well, this is the mark, yeah, this is the mark of any great artist is to reiterate, to follow your passions wherever they will. no one does the same thing for 50 years or without it, you know, getting a little bit stagnant as much as the audience wants it. So I appreciate that you keep pushing yourself in new areas. And this should hopefully just encourage you more because, as I said, I mean, as you can tell, I'm just obsessed with this movie and you're fantastic. And it's, sir, your charisma and talent always jumps off the screen. I really encourage folks to check out Cota, whether it's in a theater

or on Apple TV. And I'm glad it gave us an excuse to get to know each other a little bit today, at least. Yeah, absolutely. And, yeah, I'm aiming to do more films like this one, actually. I would love to change to do a...

You know, and I think every comedian, for some reason, they go, or they aim to drama after a while. Yeah. Tom Hanks. To Carrie, they all of it. Yeah. Harry, Robin Williams.

all of them. So, yeah, I think I'm in that point of my career where I would love to switch a little bit more to something deeper, more. It's clearly in you. I mean, you've conquered one mountain, now on to the next. Thank you again for your time today, sir.

I really appreciate it. Thank you very much, Judge. It was a pleasure talking to you and your audience. Thank you very much. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person.

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