Happy Sad Confused - Taran Killam, David Oyelowo

Episode Date: February 9, 2017

Welcome to podcasting history. This week “Happy Sad Confused” welcomes two April fools babies as Josh’s guests, surely a first in the annals of the medium.  First up is Taran Killam, whose eclectic career has included six memorable seasons on “Saturday Night Live”, a surprising appearance in “12 Years a Slave”, and now a Broadway run in “Hamilton”.  Killam lives up to his nerd reputation in this conversation that goes deep into “Star Wars” (including the tongue in cheek audition tape he made for the Han Solo movie), how to properly imitate Christoph Waltz, what it’s like to direct Arnold Schwarzenegger, and a detailed pitch for the superhero movie he desperately wants to star in.  Later in the show David Oyelowo visits Josh to talk about his starring role in the true life romantic drama, “A United Kingdom” (out this Friday). Oyelowo also talks about his remarkable performance in “Selma”, why Idris Elba has his vote to be the next James Bond, and even sings a little power ballad, just to show off his range. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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This week on Happy Say I Confused, Taryn Killam on going from S&L to Broadway and David O'Yellow-O on Uniting a Kingdom. I'm Josh Horowitz, and I'm trying to sound important. Is that your David O'Yololo? No, that's just my important podcasting voice, Sabby. Oh, it's your... I can't stick with it because it's rooting my vocal cords.

You're trying to sound a lot. as cool as David O'Yellowell? I know. And you never will. He just exited the podcast booth, as it were. And yeah, he's got a, he's got a great voice. Great voice. But we'll get to David in a second. As I said, he's uniting a kingdom. That's the name of his film, a United Kingdom. He's excellent in it. And we had a lot of fun chatting. But first up, I do want to mention that we've got Taryn Killam on the show. Taryn Killam. Taryn Killam, of course, you guys know him from his, I think, six seasons I want to say on Saturday

And very funny guy, known for a thousand different impressions, and he is very exciting for him in his career, now appearing on Broadway in this little show called Hamilton. What? Have you heard of it? I've been heard of it. I thought you were a Broadway fan, Sammy. How many times has Sammy seen Hamilton? Three times.

How many times is Josh who interviewed Taryn for the show seen Hamilton? Zero, so might as well be like negative times. I like immediately tweeted Taryn and was like, don't give him tickets. I have one, this one thing, Terran. So we talk, of course, about Hamilton as much as I could without having seen the show. But, yeah, a very cool opportunity for a guy that, you know, is very talented and made quite an impression on SNL thanks to, you know, impressions like Brad Pitt and Matthew McConaug. He's some great viral videos. He was kind of like one of those guys that you could just plug into any sketch and he would make it funnier.

He was my favorite. Really? I was so sad when he left. Yeah. He's great. And he's one of these guys that, I'm surprised. Surprisingly, over the years here at MTV, for whatever reason, I haven't interviewed before and yet, like, totally vived with, like, has all the right reference points. By the way, says he listens to the show.

Very exciting. Say hi to Taryn. Taryn, why didn't you ask for me? I don't believe him. But he was great. He was great. And we geek out a lot about Star Wars for no apparent reason, just because. And also worth noting, this is kind of history in the making.

This is referenced in both conversations with Taryn and David. Never before, Sammy, in the history of podcasting, has this happened. Oh, my God. Where the host and not one, but both of the guests on the respective podcast, share the same birthday. And what day is that? April Fool's Day. Are you kidding me? Me, Taryn, David O'Yolwell, all April Fool's babies.

Not only that, David and I, same year, literally same exact age. Are you David O'Yellow? Yes. A lot of jokes to that effect coming up in the second half of the episode. That is pretty amazing. Pretty weird, right? Yeah. So anyway, we'll get to David in a second.

But first up for you guys, I hope you enjoy this conversation with Taron. As I said, he's appearing in Hamilton. Normally at this point, I would say go check him out and get tickets. You can't. Honestly, I can't. So I don't know how you are. Not that I have much more power than you. You cannot.

Wait, is it just me? Yeah. No one wants you there. Me and Mike Pence are not welcome. It's true. I saw a sign in the theater. Let's see if I can get his plus one to go back. So yes, enjoy this conversation with the Great Taryn Killam.

Hopefully the first of many visits to Happy Sagan Fused. And we'll see you on the other side with Mr. David O'Yellow. I'm very excited to be joined by the only man to be in both 12 years of slave and to popularize the sloppy swish. Thank you very much. Yeah, that's me. That's me. Not Fastbender.

He didn't do that. No, almost. He had the lazy lunge, which was not as popular. Right. That was in the end credits of shame. If you stayed through the credits, crazy dance moves. Just giant penis as he does the lazy lunge. He doesn't like to talk about his giant penis.

No, no, no. He lets the work speak for himself. Oh, you asked. Oh, I know this for a fact. Great, okay. He's over his giant penis. I don't know why anyone would ever be over their giant penis, but he doesn't like talking about it. It's classier, I guess.

I guess. We should stop talking about it for fear that he will never come back on the podcast of him talking about it. I'm sorry, Michael. Speaking of giant penises. No, no. Darren Gillum in the house. Exactly. I'll take it.

Welcome, sir. Thank you very much. We've never chat or we've never met so. This is exciting for me. I'm a big fan. Me as well. That's just not true. You don't know who I am.

Absolutely. No, I've listened to your podcast for a long time. First time was when you had Chris and Phil on back towards the beginning. Okay, cool. Because they wrote for my wife's show for How I Met Your Mother. And it was all very exciting what's occurred for them. Oh, my God. They are ruling the universe.

They are. I made a part in jest, but if they called up in earnest, I wouldn't have turned them down, audition tape for Han Solo, where they released the sides. And I had Vanessa Bayer be my scene partner, and we shot it on the 17th floor of SNL. And I did one take that was sort of like as written. Right. And then I did, and part of the scene was like a flirtation of like hitting on a girl. And she was like way over him.

So, and then we did one version where the second she throws shade, I shoot her with a blaster and flip a coin to a bartender. Say, sorry about the mess. I will say, you've essentially been in the next best thing to a Star Wars film. The sketch you guys did on S&L. Thank you. Yeah, one of my favorite things. Undercover boss, yeah? Not only just, like, comedically, like, a great concept and, like, super funny, but, like, in production standpoint, did you guys, like, blow your entire year's budget on those sets?

Probably. I mean, it was, it was, there have been a few times where I show up, because you write it Tuesday, you read it Wednesday, and they don't know that it's happening until 10 p.m. Wednesday night. Right. So overnight, they're drawing up the plans, and then they ship them out to Brooklyn, and they start building. And, yeah, it was, it was one of, definitely, like, at least. a dozen times, but we showed up and, you know, I don't think it's a surprise that Bobby and I are pretty big Star Wars fans, nerds. And it was, like, overwhelming. It was, like, emotional because they'd built this incredible star killer base, and, you know, there was minimal use of green screen.

I literally, I think there's one shot where they wanted to show, like, a Thai fighter hanger in the background that we used green screen on, and the rest was entirely practical. And Lucas film, I guess, who's responsible for? It flew in. the Kylo Wren costume, so we all got to, you know, finger the hem of his garment literally and touch and, yeah, and, oh man, Adam was one of my favorite hosts because I think based off his body of work, you don't know whether he's going to be. Yeah, I was frankly surprised he was as game and comedically gifted. I haven't seen a lot of girls, but clearly he's gifted and he can do anything. Yes. Yeah, but

in on it. Right. I would have guessed that maybe he's got a process and it's like, don't bother him while he's the character. But no, I mean, he fully got the joke, was in on the joke, had fun. We ended up releasing a behind the scenes kind of blooper thing. Right, right, right.

It was just one of the best shoots ever. So, a lot to talk about. We'll get this out of the way just to mention. We'll talk about it a little bit more in a bit, but you're having an exciting run right now. You're in Hamilton, man. Congratulations. Thank you so much. I want to talk a lot about that in terms of how you got involved, et cetera. But if we could, like, start a little bit on background, well, first of all, here's something I discovered.

We share a very important bond. We're both April Fool's Babies. Get out of here. This is true. I'm a little older, but April 1st, yes. Oh, wonderful. Did it scar you in any profound way beyond just silly jokes at your expense or whatever? A lot more, oh, well, that makes sense.

Right. Not as many actualized pranks or fools. Similar, yeah. I have one that was like misguided in high school and didn't go over well and it was like more mean, more mean than funny. But no, I've gotten gotten out of being an April full baby kind of scot-free. So growing up, we've already nerded out a bit on Star Wars, it sounds like from reading up on you that you, this is legit like you were kind of a nerd growing up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it sort of died in the wool.

My mom actually loved the movies and was a big student and follower of Joseph Can. Campbell. So his connection to the original script and mythology was all instilled in me at a very young age. And I grew up what we had, him on VHS. I grew up watching them. And then I was like right in prime teen years when the special edition re-releases. First, they came out with like a new relaunch of action figures. Right. Like the 95, 97 reissue. And like I went crazy for those. Do you remember like, I remember even the first trailer for the re-release. It was like that TV. I rushed home and rushed out. And the fog and the gungan, well, the gungons of phantom, you're talking about Phantom. Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. We can talk about both. Yeah. Okay.

So they re-released, what I remember, the special edition was like, it was a TV. Yeah. And it was like this, you know, like the somber narration, like you've only seen it this way. Yes. And then like the X-Wing comes out of the TV. Yeah. Yeah. But even more, you're right.

To bring up Phantom Menace, Phantom Manus, I went to see Meet Joe Black solely to see that trailer. I, to this day have not been as excited to see a movie as I was for Phantom Menace. The build-up to that. I mean, it consumed my life. Were you, let's talk, and I promise this entire conversation is not going to be Star Wars-related, but since we're on this tangent. And I am an expert, as you seemingly are in the subject. Where did you come down at the time on Phantom Medicine's prequels? Where are you now in your life?

You've got kids, you have to show them the films at some point, et cetera. There's a lot of here. I'll let them find the prequels on their own, probably, is where I'm at. because I have two daughters, so I'm very excited and proud to be in an era where Force Awakens kind of came as I have to, you know, daughters who can see a female hero and that that kind of becomes the centerpiece of the saga now is very exciting. Yeah. As well as Ginerosote, you know, I mean, there's real effort in terms of swinging the sort of the gender chasm, if you will. but I saw Phantom Menace 13 times in the theater I was an ardent supporter

and fought tooth and nailed for the Jar Jar Binks Gungan of it all and you don't understand I the eighth time I saw it I was in a theater with seven-year-olds who laughed so hard at Jar Jar Jar and that's that's for them and Ewox was for me and you know

and then Masa Agree It's my one good impression I could do. Yeah, I know. I figured you're the only person that might actually appreciate it. That was impressive. My best would be proud. I've talked to Ahmed Best.

That's pretty awesome. Fascinating, I bet. Yeah, yeah. Passing conversation. He's been through the ringer. Sure. Sure. So where have you come out on the other side?

So it took you 13 times to maybe now realize. Phantom for nostalgia and I think just for design, for Darth Mall, for that final. for that final lightsaber battle, still my favorite of the three. I agree. Of the prequels, it's the best one. It also has the most practical sets, like because they shot in Tunisia again.

Yes. Unfortunately, the second and third, they don't wear as well. To me, it feels like, and they were kind of shot in like a box in Australia. Yeah. And it kind of feels like that.

The second one is probably my least favorite. And the third one gives you the moment of the mask coming down and saying, and the first time you hear, And then he goes, where is Padmaid? And you're like, ah, I was literally going, no, before he was. Because he very shortly thereafter goes, no, he does.

It's very awkward. So what else were you into as a kid? Because like you weren't necessarily, I know from reading up, like comedy, I mean, you were interested in comedy, but it wasn't the goal until relatively late in your teen or 20s or whatever. Yeah, it felt more out of my grasp than even traditional acting and auditioning because I started that pretty young. at about five years old, like for commercials and stuff. And big breaks in between, because it was never something my parents forced me to do. They said, we know that you like to perform and that you can go into a room of adults and be precocious and not shy away.

But then for me, got into musical theater. You know, my mom, when the Schubert was still in L.A. and Century City, we went and saw cats. We saw Les Mizz. And she would always kind of play the album in the car picking me up from school before we went and saw the show. So that was a big part of my development as a performer. And then we moved to Big Bear, California, which is a small mountain town.

And in sixth grade, I started auditioning for school musicals, and that kind of took over my life. Is it true that, according to the ever reliable Wikipedia, that Robert Stack is a distant relative? My mother's uncle. Yeah, my mother's uncle. Did you have any relationship? Was he still around?

Very much so. Yeah, and my dad, who was in construction, did a lot of work on their house. And so we were around and, like, we would do breakfast together. Sometimes he'd tell me untouchable stories of, like, Trump and that. Now, any coincidence that your feature film debut was also in, he kind of came back to the four in the airplane movies, as I recall. Right. Your feature debut is a very admirable one in that you were a naked gun, 33 and a third.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. I'm not joking. No, it was, it blew my mind because I, yeah, obviously, even at that point was a huge comedy fan. Yeah. huge fan of Monty Python and Mel Brooks and certainly Zuckers. That wasn't related. I got, I became like Taft Hartley, which is sort of what it's called right before you become

SAG eligible, or join the union. I got that through an Unsolved Mysteries episode, which definitely was helped by my uncle, and then, you know, join the union doing naked gun. So were you like a reenactor on Unsolved Mysteries? Yeah, I played Hans, a little German boy who in World War II, he and his mother in the middle of the wilderness, Christmas time, his father was gone fighting in the war. There's a knock at their door, literally Christmas Eve or Christmas night, and it's like three American soldiers. And they go, this Christmas come in, we'll house you, will feed you, cut to an hour later, knock, knock, knock, three German soldiers show up. And it's actually a beautiful thing, a beautiful story where they all came together and they shared this Christmas dinner.

The German soldiers helped the Americans who were behind enemy lines, guided them back to where the safe zone. So I was playing Hans, who now as a grown man, was trying to find and reconnect with these soldiers and figure out who they were. But could Hans find the family that helped him? All right. So, Jarger first. That's my first Robert Stack impression ever. Hey, literally, as a kneeger, that's not bad. Turn, how old are you?

February 3rd, 2001. Nice. I lost my mind when he was a voice in Beavis and Butthead, Do America. Oh, yeah. I forgot that. It's been a while. He's like the FBI agent in that. That's right.

Okay. I was like, you got to hook me up with swag. And so I have like it on VHS tape and a T-shirt from that because I was a big Beavis and Butthead fan. What was your, so what are your memories of being on the set of a, what was your role in the final insult? In 33 and a third, the final insult, directed by Peter Siegel, who directed Tommy Boy. Oh, sure. Yeah. Cool connection just because I love Tommy Boy.

happened to be on SNL, shot on the Paramount lot, and it was like the climax took place of fake Oscars, and they kept showing clips of movie parodies. And so I was boy in geriatric park, as opposed to Jurassic Park. There's also like a mother Teresa musical biopic. So when I showed up, they were filming that sequence, and right next door was the fake Jurassic Park set with like, you know, a 10 times the size leg of a walker. Sure. Because it's not a T-Rex, it's an old man with a walker. And it was so fun.

It was so exciting. It was a real Hollywood movie set. And the Jeep looked just like the Jeep from Jurassic Park, which had come out a year before. And actually went on like my first double date ever. I was in sixth grade, seventh grade. We went to Jurassic Park. Wow. Yeah.

A harbens are of great things to come. Sandstrom, yeah. At the end of the movie, me and Kristen were saying goodbye, and all our friends were there, because there was a small town. They were like, kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss. And I got pushed towards Kristen and gave her like a peck like that. She filed charges. So cool.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I got into musical theater in prison in juvie. Exactly. I did a juvie rendition of a veto. Right. So what are, I mean, in reading up in you again, like, where are the lean years? I want the sadness, the tragedy, because it feels like the, you know, you, you weren't acting like throughout your teen years

there were kind of like breaks and then and mad TV happens relatively early in your career but prior to you even frankly like doing improv and getting into that scene it kind of happened in reverse was it in like did you feel

struggle before mad TV or post mad TV and pre-s and now like what was the yeah I mean I like there's the tween teen turmoil of just adolescence and feeling like an outsider at times and, you know, I would swing back and forth just because like middle school is very small. I was sort of a late bloomer, so that, and into things like Star Wars and comic books,

so that definitely formed my personality, but then was good in the plays, and for whatever reason that was cool in its own right, you know, to a certain demographic. And then went to an arts high school, and that, it was very cool there, so that was nice. So high school felt good. And yeah, towards the end, I started just doing auditions casually, like guest star stuff. And my, like, the first recurring gig out of high school was on the Amanda show on Nickelodeon. Sure. I did seven episodes of that. And doing Hamilton now, I still go out the stage door.

And there are people who either Moody's Point, which was the, like, chapter, the sort of sub-series within the show that I did, or stuck in the suburbs, which was this Disney Channel original movie. where I played a pop star. I'm literally all over the map. I'm literally, I am all over the map. I did, I did MTV's undressed. You know what I mean? And I would say between all these gigs, like in general, my career has been very slow and steady

and that I've been so fortunate to have made a living since I was 19 and sort of, you know, paying my way through life, which is a blessing. but definitely like long years, two years where like I'll do a pilot that nobody ever hears about and then thank God I can file my tax returns and get a big return because they'll take a lot of off the top. This is Happy Say I Confused. We'll be right back after this. The Jeep Wrangler 4xE. It's electrified. So you can boogie, wooogie, wooogie up a mountain.

Over creeks or boogie-woogie-woogie through a desert where you get bit by a pit viper. So you boogie-woogie-woogie back to camp and ask your friends if they'll suck the snake venom out. When they say, no, you boogie-woogie-woogie to the nearest hospital for a dose of anti-venom. And boogie-woogie-woogie your way to a full recovery. They electrified Jeep Wrangler 4xE. Learn more at jeep.com. Jeep is a registered trademark of FCA US LLC. At the time when MadTV came around did it feel like both, you know, like a new

level for you, a new exciting opportunity, also feel like something that you were equipped to do? Did you feel like qualified to do the job that you had not at all? Not at all. No, that was very flukish and and sort of thrust me into the comedy world because I was always a good mimic and I was, you know, impressions I could do and was always funny socially, but not professionally. And it just worked for whatever reason. They offered me this challenge and it was very, very, scary. And I was like, no, wait, what? Maybe I don't, no, I couldn't. They wouldn't.

Should I try? Why not? What have I got to lose? And so it worked and I was on for like half a season, basically, and I got to work with some of the funniest people to this day that I've ever met Michael Hitchcock, who was a writer and is on all the Christopher guest shows and

really looked out for me and he was from Groundlings. Michael McDonald was like, you know, the star of the show at that point, Stephanie Weir, Moe Collins, Will Saso became a really good friend of mine and it was brilliantly funny. And at the end of that season, they asked me back, but like at a reduced contract. They wanted to renegotiate for less, you know, because they're like, we don't really know what to do with you, and we're pretty sure you don't know what you're doing.

So under the sort of guidance of my reps at that point, said no, but loved doing it, loved sketched in the art form. So I started taking classes at groundlings. So and in those, you know, there was a bit of a gap like a, you know, 2010 then is obviously when you, you came aboard SNL. Yeah. What were you, what was the goal in those kind of years in between? Like, did you have kind of like a game plan of like where you saw yourself ending up or? S&L became the singular focus for sure. And was there, I mean, there are exceptions, certainly. I mean, but like, was there a sense that like Mad TV was a pro or a con for folks at the time and getting to S&L. Because of my age and because of the length of time I was on it, I didn't see

it as much of a con. Got it. Yeah. And if anything, it opened the door to it being a possibility. It kind of put it on my radar as opposed to being a lifelong fan, which I was, grew up watching it every weekend. It now became, yeah, a reality of something that maybe I always knew that if I were seen, if I had the chance to audition, I'd at least have a good shot. Right. I was certainly not like, I deserve to be on that show, but I knew that the odds were in my favor if I could be seen. And I apologize if you've, I'm sure you've told these stories a thousand times, but I'm just curious, like, you know, the SNL audition. What was your repertoire? I did it three times.

So I did it. The first year that they came, I did it and I did like, something like 12 impressions and two original characters. Then they called me back two or three weeks later and they said, we want to see you again. we want all new material. So I did like eight or nine different impressions and then added an original, like so three originals that I'd done from Brownlings. And then we got a no, but you're on our radar kind of, you know, behind the scenes like that I took with a grain of salt and continued performing at Groundlings for the next year.

And then they called me back the following session. Got it. And all new stuff that time too. What were the go-to impressions at that time? Um, Brad Pitt has always been one that I'm very proud of just because I don't know anybody else who does one. Um, so that was good. I, I had a Paul Giamatti that I did. It did like, you know, at the time, it was all very sort of, uh, timely, you know, Seth Rogen. I did, you know, one that's his laugh. And I have like a really bad Tom Hanks one. But I, but I'm more interested in, in impressions you haven't seen before. Right. If you can capture an essence of somebody that seems. uncatchable. Yeah, I mean, and it's interesting, I mean, jumping ahead to once you're a part of the cast,

it feels like you kind of like fit, you know, everyone, not everyone, but a lot of people like fall into a type or a niche at S&L and kind of a role that they play. And to your benefit, I feel like you almost had a few different incarnations. Like you could be the mimic, you obviously have a great talent for impressions.

You could also kind of be like that plug and play guy that could kind of fit in most sketches. Thank you. Yes. I, I have always kind of pushed against and fought to not be any one thing as someone in 12 years of slave and stuck in the suburbs can show. But the show itself definitely feels comfortable in assigning those roles to people. So as much as it allowed for me to do lots of different things, I think there was at times a struggle as well in that higher ups wanting to define me. and me feeling like I was something new

that you can't necessarily define by a singular trait or voice or talent, yeah. Here's a random thought that I've always had watching S&L. If I were on SNL, which would never happen because I don't have that skill set. I don't know. Beyond Jar Jar, living for a Jar Jar, is I would dread those last moments of the show, the goodbye.

It feels awkward to me. Oh, interesting. It feels like, I mean, again, you're clearly a people person, you're, you know, it's not from what you've talked about, but like, filling that, I feel badly sometimes for the host, they don't know what to do in the goodbye, they're looking around for somebody, it just feels like everything awkward about life encapsulated in 45 seconds to me. Yeah, there's, there is a genuine fascination with that I've found, because I always took

that for granted in that it seems very celebratory and it seems, um, casual, you know? I mean, how many times can you hug Bobby? I mean, I feel like you... A lot. I'm far from done. I'm far from done. In fact, excuse me. No, wait, you brought Bobby with you?

Just a hug. Bye! That's a terrible. That's a friend. So that wasn't high on your list of anxieties? No, God, no. No, the most anxious I got or most stressed or nervous was for update, for whatever reason. Interesting.

And that I think it's a similar tool to stand up, which I tried once and am still deathly afraid of, in that I have very little interest or drive to stand and address a crowd, breaking the fourth wall and say, here is me. I much prefer a character or a story or existing in an ensemble to create a show for an audience. Gotcha. Yeah. And were you over the course of your tenure there? Were you surprised?

Did you have a handle on like sort of the things that went over well in terms of like what would kind of resonate with an audience after the fact in terms of digital shorts, et cetera, and some that really broke through in a big way. We referenced one earlier. Is that something that, like, that tends to be the stuff that you believe in yourself, or do you feel like there's a disconnect between the audience and the stuff that actually becomes big? I think there's both.

I think you can't define or, you know what I mean? What happens over time is that you kind of calibrate your success meter. You know, the first time you have something on, you're like, that was great. It was on. And then the first time you get a really big laugh, you go, oh. Okay, there's the bar. That's what we're shooting for. And you're on YouTube, like, it needs to hit 500,000.

Exactly, exactly. How many likes, how many clicks, how many comments? Well, that person's stupid. No, I mean, I mean, I get a lot of very nice feedback and love for things that I was proud of and are very much of me. Sloppy Swish is one. Glyse is another one that people really liked. And, yeah, those are specific and particular to me. but then like people really like this the Matthew McConaughey which Mikey Day and I wrote I think in like 20 minutes because we'd just seen the Oscars and we're like this guy's a maniac and I'd been watching all of True Detective so I really had sort of those rhythms down I thought and that was so easy and people loved it which is wonderful but also infuriating because you're like why didn't you love the thing that I spent two days on right right so yeah so it happens well some of my favorite things I ever saw in the show were sketches that Fred

Armisen Red that never saw the light of day. Fred's amazing. Fred was literally just in here a couple weeks ago. I mean, he's a genius, obviously. He is. He truly is. Is, um, what's the key to of Christoph Waltz? I'm fascinated for that specific kind of a... Yeah, it's in the jaw.

Mm-hmm. Right? And it's very much leaning into your ars. If you're... Would you like to go and get a crescent? I think that could be great. He's a very... He must have hosted during your...

He did, right? He did, yeah. He's an intimidating guy to interview, I'll say, from my, from my vantage point. Sure. Here's what he does, if I doubt you'll ever have to interview him. But he questions your question, no matter what the question is. It could be like as basic as it is. You know what I mean?

It's like, so, you know, what was it like to do that comedy? Why call it a comedy? So you want to know how it was to do this, but when you say this, you have to define that for me, because I think the character doesn't necessarily know they are in the comedy. It's exhausting. It's exhausting. I mean, he's very talented. He's also unflappable. Yeah, he's kind of like, he's existing in Christophe lands.

You know what I mean? And we all respond to it with much cheer and joy because he's phenomenal and great at being intimidating while eating delicious foods. Oh, my God. That's one of my favorite photos ever from the, what, Oscars post-party. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, God. So, okay, so you wrap up S&L this past year. There was, you know, this kind of always happens when someone wraps up,

whether it's on their own time or not. You would thought that, you know, it's a seven-year contract. You thought it would go another year. Looking back on sort of the way it went down, do you have, like, any bitterness or anger in terms of the way you found out or the way it was handled? No, no. Not now. I definitely, I think, was my feathers.

the system at first. We're ruffled. And it more just comes out of life planning. You know, I'm a family man and it's just kind of, I'm from L.A. originally and so the fact that it happened quickly, but I also did not make it any secret that I was appreciative of my time there and was very excited to go back to normal sleep schedule. right um so so now i'm getting to do broadway which is still so crazy to me um it's worked out very very much for my lifestyle for my creative uh status satisfactory uh faction faction oh my god you're

having a stroke no no no no terry medics my spinach um yeah so so well because you were also and i definitely want to talk to you yes a film you just you wrote and directed yeah you were in the middle of that at the time, and clearly something like Hamilton never would have been able to happen. Correct. It's literally as complicated as it could be, and I think that both sides are happier for it, you know what I mean? I think the show felt that it definitely needed to shake stuff up, and things changed for me personally once Seth left, you know what I mean? Seth was somebody I really looked to and respected, and I think that he's kind of doing most of the best late night. Yeah, he's found his grief. Yeah, he sure has.

So the dynamics were shifting and changing. And yeah, I shot the Showtime pilot that was an opportunity that came up. And these were all factors that were weighed. And then now I'm doing Hamilton. So is it weird or too soon to watch the show right now? Is it a little funky to see it? I started the first couple episodes. But yeah, I'm still seeing sort of the behind the scenes.

I'm still seeing the wires and the sort of more social. political dynamics as opposed to just the content itself. But if something really connects, and there's, you know, I thought Kate's, Kellyanne Conway, Chicago piece was so good. Julio wrote the Wells for Boys, Fisher Price Wells for Boys

is one of the best things I think has ever been on that show. Okay, so let's talk Hamilton for a second. So how the hell did this happen? Was this something that you kind of like let it be known like, hey, I could do that or did they just come calling? What's the genesis of this?

Yeah, column A and B, when I got to New York, musical theater is something I've loved my whole life. So I tried to get involved in the theater scene as much as my schedule allowed. So I would do 24-hour plays, and I did 24-hour musicals a couple times. And I started meeting really incredible, great people. And one of those said people was Tommy Cale,

director of Hamilton, and he and I hit it off. It was a very, very fast friendly relationship. built off of quoting the office, the UK office, and sharing our favorite sound bites from that. And he, and Lynn, both Kobe and I kind of knew because he would write music for how I met your mother. Neil would hire him to come do musical pieces for them. Oh, interesting.

Yeah, so had a relationship there. And yeah, during the whole rehearsal, they invited me to like a bunch of rehearsals. And I mean, I think I went to two for like a couple And it, you know, I was like, great, yeah, this is awesome. I'm not really sure what's happening, and I have to go, and had I but known, would have definitely, like, you know, just what a fascinating work of art and story and musical and people and team. And so, so was always kind of around and friendly with the creative team and then had all had a little more free time. And Tommy said, I have to find a replacement for the king.

Is this something you'd consider doing? And I said, yeah. I'll be a part of your pop culture phenomenon, sure. I'll do nine and a half minutes in a silly cape and crown. Yeah. So I apologize, I have not seen the show. Because as you might have heard, it's a little difficult to get. You're the one.

I'm the one that's stopping it from being profitable. Yeah. I will get there by hook or by crook. I'll sneak my way in. But I would imagine that you're seeing an audience unlike any. I mean, they know they've got like the golden ticket. They're seeing something very special. Can you equate it to the S&L experience in any way?

It's obviously a much different environment. Yeah, I mean, there are absolutely parallels. Just being in New York, being live performing, being a hot ticket that's hard to get, even if you're a part of the show. But there is some, you know, there's a sincere, emotional connection and earnest authenticity to the way people feel about Hamilton, a feeling of gratitude, and S&L, you know, draws people from all demos, ages, type shapes, but there's sort of a dismissiveness. You know what I mean? You can be like, like comedy, funny, you know, I like that character, a catchphrase. And this is,

I flew 9,000 miles from Australia and spent all the money I had because it was important to me to see this and experience this and thank you with tears in their eyes and like it's overwhelming it really is i've only been doing it three weeks now and and to be this small part of this huge huge show is is overwhelming tough to or incumbent upon you to make this character your own to give it a little bit of a different kind of twist or no i mean i'm still defining that because i'm so early into my run and and the actor and me of course wants to go yeah well i'm gonna do all these new tricks. And then you realize that there's also, you owe it to Lynn's work and his genius and the genius of the creative team of Tommy and Andy the choreographer and all these

people who have been living with it for years and have explored a lot of these things already and maybe have a more selfless broader goal than just being the funniest person on stage and see the bigger picture of tone and connective. tissue between characters and moments and so and then and then of the 1300 people per night who see it almost all of them have purchased the album and have been listening to it on repeat so there's an expectation of how things should sound right um people absolutely sing along um so so finding the balance you know satisfying the ego of like i'm going to do something nobody else has done before with this and also honoring this multi-tony award-winning perfect piece of art is a balance.

Yeah, sure. So is New York now, you referenced this earlier, is New York home for the long run? I mean, after Kobe's show, obviously Kobe's small, there's your wife, I met your mother, wrapped up, she came back here, you were still in SNL at the time, you made your home for now here, got kids, what's the... We're looking to get back west. We think by the end of... Traders.

Sorry. No, it's okay. That's where you're from. It's where my blood is. It's where my space is. I'm not going to spend my life being a New Yorker. No, I will always come back. I mean, listen, I got to live, I've never lived outside of Southern California in my life until SNL. I got to move to Manhattan to be a cast member on SNL for six years. My seventh year, I had the great honor of performing on Broadway in one of the most beloved shows in history. in history. Yeah.

Why, you peaked. Where do I go from here? You did New York. Unless you open a bagel shop and like take over H&H bagels. Sopranos is over. If I got a recurring on boardwalk or Sopranos, maybe. Right. Yeah, so I think end of summer we'll probably move back.

So I want to hear about the film. Yeah. This is Gunther. What's the official title? So it's called Why We're Killing Gunther. Starring. Starring me, some Bobby, some friends. and then as Gunther introducing Arnold Schwarzenegger.

I mean, pretty cool. This is insane. It was insane. I mean, we, you know, we kind of bonded at the early run on pop culture references, so I'm guessing he kind of had an important part of your childhood, as he did mine. First rated R movie I saw was Terminator 2 in the theater. Conan, Terminator, Commando for me. Great.

It's one of my faves and Predator, obviously. Total recall. I'll come on. Last Action Hero. Yeah. Last Action Hero has its moments. I love it. I love it.

I do. Being a young boy with actual Arnold Schwarzenegger action figures and the idea of him coming through the screen and being like, you're the only one who can help me is full wish fulfillment. As I recall, the child actor wasn't the best. He's around. He's around, right? Is he still around?

He was. I mean, he had a good run. He did some, he was like, he was in My Girl 2. I want to say. I want to say he was in babysitters club, which was a big deal because Larissa Olinick, am I saying that right? I don't know. I had a big Larissa Olinic crush. She was Alex Mack. Sure, sure, sure. She had a secret life. Yes, exactly. She was silver. She was liquid silver. So, okay, so the Arnold Experians, how do you direct Arnold Schwarzenegger? Does he take direction well? Incredibly well. I mean, he was game for everything. He was prepared on time. You know,

And S&L is great, great training for dealing with different sized bodies of work and egos and all these things. But it was so easy, which is insane because we have him doing a lot of really funny, dumb stuff. So he knew his lines. He was memorized. He brought his own ad libs for different beats and stuff. It was truly a dream. It was really, really awesome. We shot a week with him because he's the villain.

And the premise is it's the world of hitmen, and we've shot it in sort of a mockumentary structure. So this group of up-and-comers who want to kind of establish themselves in the industry of assassins, hires a documentary crew at gunpoint to film them tracking down the most mysterious, infamous, well-known hitman who's kind of monopolizing the industry, and they're going to murder him on camera and use that as their calling cards. and it very quickly goes

badly. It goes downhill for them pretty early on and he is, he plays Gunther's. Who was on the, I mean was there a list? Yeah, yeah. Was it like Jean-Claude Van Dam types? Was it the 80s action heroes? So literally like Arnold is the

most perfect person and I approached it more from people I'd worked with on SNL who at least I'd spent a week with and could put a name to the face and I think had a good experience and so we went to Bruce Willis

and he considered it for a while but he was doing misery on Broadway at the time and ended up saying no but they represent Arnold as well his reps represent Arnold and they said you know Arnold's really looking to do something like this and I like I literally went yeah right

and they said no no no we think he we think he dig it and he's dead have you smoked a cigar with Arnold Schwarzenegger I've been around Arnold smoking a cigar It's close enough. I'm a singer. That's right. Can't damage the moneymaker.

Can't burn the larynx. Bill Hader has some good stories of working with. Doesn't he? Yeah, because he was a PA on right, like, was it collateral damage? It's, that's right. I think so. Yeah. Yeah.

Amazing. Okay, so talk to me about, I mean, again, we talked about kind of nerd credentials growing up. Kobe's obviously had a big part in a relatively large cinematic universe. Yes. Who was more excited once she got involved? in... Definitely, me. Avengers.

Yeah. Definitely. Like, even just the idea of the screen test, I lost my mind. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because she's cool. I'm a dork and love the Marvel movies. In terms of comics, Marvel is predominantly what I read.

Yeah. And, yeah, I lost my mind. I was so excited. She, you know, maybe Marvel will sue her now, but she, like, sent me a sneak pick of like the outfit from the screen test. Right. Because like five actresses did a screen test with Sam Jackson. Sure.

And so she got me a picture and I was like literally if nothing else, this is, you are the greatest wife in the world. You've done yourself for me. Thank you. Have you ever gone up for a superhero film? No. There's a spot for you somewhere. My stellar Han Solo audition.

Sure. Did they ever get back to you? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. They're still thinking about it. Yeah, they're ruminating. I think they're shooting. I think I'm the swing.

I think I'm Hans Swing. Sorry, I use a lot of Broadway terms now. No, I get it, I get it. There's a place for you in the superhero cinematic universe. There must be. Thank you. I have the one I'd like to play, yeah. I have my pitch.

I want to play Rick Jones. Remind me. Exactly. That's part of the spin. I think it's pretty well versed. That's part of the spin. So my pitch is that it's Marvel's, it would be like a Marvel, somewhat musical comedy about Rick Jones,

who is the teenager that Bruce Banner was going to say. when the gamma bomb goes off. And then for the first, like, few years, Rick Jones was like his sidekick. Like, Bruce, you got to be in there. Oh, no, you know. And then, and he's a fascinating character because he really does stink.

But he's like a cool teenager who drives a hot rod who knows karate, who then was given the cosmic power during the Kree Scroll war and, like, saved everybody because the cosmic power allows him to just create anything he thinks of. One of those great powers, like Green Lantern can do anything with the ring.

They just gave up. They just gave up. There's this huge, like, intergalactic war, and they're like, cool hot rod driving teenage boy with karate powers, you will have the cosmic power. And he dreams up the comic book heroes of the golden age to come back, to come out of the pages to help fight the war. I mean, it's insane. And then he gets his own gamma radiation. He becomes a bomb after Abomination was killed off. And he becomes a reality star.

and he's also a wannabe like folk slash rock singer too like he's had so many everything he was he was bucky for a minute he was Captain America's sidekick he was uh Marvell he was like the teen form of Marvell and so like

and then a sidekick to Captain Marvel so my pitch is that like now he has a one man show in Vegas that's like a musical variety show where he tells stories there's so much story to tell my god about it and like nobody shows up and he's a loser um but aim AIM, the evil

scientific. I don't know if they're going to do something with Modoc or not, but that's who I would love to be the villain. So how are the meetings with Kevin Feigy? Has he returned your calls? This is my pitch. This is literally this is my pitch here now. I think

like, and I think the marketing is literally like I'm Rick Jones. Like, who? Who are you? And the whole story is that he's never had his day in the sun and everybody's all fighting Thanos. So he finally gets his moment to save Las Vegas and people still give all the credit to Hulk by the end of the movie.

I just spoiled the whole. I love a few things about this. Yeah. You've put a lot of thought into this. I have, yeah, yeah. I also feel like you've had this exact same conversation with Kobe, and she's refused to get you in touch with the Marvel powers at me. Exactly. So. We're on hard times, man. We're working through it. She's mad

that all our counseling time goes to my pitch. Not another section about that. No. Well, I've done my part for you today. Yes, thank you. I sold you a few Hamilton tickets, clearly. Yeah. Now you guys. God, I appreciate it. Can make your money back. I'm going to sneak in the back.

I'm going to see the show at some point. I can't wait to. Congratulations on this exciting opportunity, man. And on everything. Anything else we should look forward to? Any other films on the can? Do we know when Gunther's going to emerge? So we're literally in post around the corner here at Harbor.

So it will be finished in March, mid-March. We'll finally have our finished picture. And then we're going to do our first sort of screener for international buyers and whatnot at can and May. Amazing. Yeah, it's really awesome. Arnold should like arrive like on an aircraft carrier and he's done that kind of thing before. I think he's now full-time job arguing with our current president.

Well, I respect that. That's all good. It's crazy. Great to meet you finally, Karen. So nice to meet you. Thank you for having. Congratulations on everything. And hopefully we'll talk to you soon.

Great Taryn Killam currently appearing on Broadway in Hamilton. Go see it if you somehow know the king of the planet because otherwise Orlin Manuel Miranda, which is essentially his title. But yes, if you have the means, go see it. And if not, look forward to his upcoming film who he just talked about. He's directed a film starring Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sammy. Your boy. I do love Arnold. You love Arnold.

Moving on, we have the great actor, David. David O'Yello. He, of course, is most well known in recent years for his work in Selma, criminally not awarded an Academy Award nomination for that. We talk about that kind of silly snub. But thankfully, he's got such a great career going, working with the likes of Lee Daniels and David DuVernay and Steven Spielberg. He just recently appeared on stage opposite Daniel Craig and Othello. And he's just charming and delightful. He is currently starring in the new. film called a United Kingdom. It opens this Friday. Everybody should check it out. He produced it. He stars in it alongside Rosamund Pike. We may have seen in Gone Girl. Excellent true story. This interracial love story that really impacted a nation. And it's a very sweet romantic tale. And he's so good. He's really good. It's crazy. We talk about there's a scene. That's right. We saw this together last night, Sammy and I. It seems like you forgot. It was like less than 24 hours ago. But yeah, that's like. I just had my checkup this morning, by the way. Well, it didn't go well. And apparently, I have severe neurological damage.

Fair enough. But continue, yes. Where am I? Yes, I mean, I saw United Kingdom last night. What did we marvel at? What was the scene? Okay. He is giving this really powerful speech and down his cheek rolls one single, perfectly timed.

So perfectly timed. And perfectly shaped tear. Okay, I'm going to do the same thing right now at the end of this thing. Sammy, this is my favorite podcast we've ever done. Nope, there's nothing there. Oh, my God, he's peeing. You can't see it, but I'm peeing. You're no, O'Yellow O.

On that disgusting note, let's class up the joint with the great David O'Yellow O. He's never coming back now. Nope, but it was a good time while he was here. It was worth it. I'm joined by the great David. a yellow-low who's discussing a delicious a Chilean Seabast dinner he had last night after his big premiere. It was very, very

yummy. Very melt in your mouth, delicious. And now my stomach might grumble throughout the interview, so thanks for that. Sorry about that. Congratulations on the film, man. Thank you. I'm a great fan of yours. It's probably been a couple of years since we've chatted. Of course, we talked on that crazy Selma,

whatever to call it, that great victory tour that it was. And in that tour, I discovered, and you probably don't remember this, this is a historic first for Happy Second, Fuse the name of my podcast. 40 years ago, a little over 40 years ago, on April 1st, 1976, not only

were you born. No. I came into this world, too, David. Are you kidding me? We are just soulmates from across the world. My brother from another mother. This is really special. We're going to get DNA tests after this. Well, I did not expect Chilean sea bass and

a mutual hideous. birthday date, by the way. Well, let's discuss this. And also, by the way, on this podcast, we're teaming this with another interview, this is going to sound bizarre, with another actor that has our same birthday, not 76, but April 1st. Taran Killem from S&L, Saturday Night Live, currently appearing on Broadway and Hamilton, has the April 1st date as well.

This is ridiculous. I don't think I've ever met anyone who has that ridiculous birthday. It's an embarrassment of riches. Wow. So I discussed with Tarant Eden seems too. scarred by the birth date. I mean, he had the jokes like I did a little bit growing up, but nothing too horrible. Do you feel any scars from this silly date that we came into the world? He clearly has nicer friends and nicer parents than I do. What, your parents have? My mom loves to remind me

of the fact that several people said, oh, you are going to have a joke. That was, so I was described as a joke as opposed to a baby as my mom went into labor and she loves to remind me of the fact. That's good for the ego growing up. It's a very good grounding thing to be told on your birthday. No wonder you've been seeking validation ever since in your work life. Can you see why I'm in the movies? Exactly. Luckily you're very good at your job so you do get the validation that you deserve and need. This movie is great and it's called the United Kingdom. It's you and Rosamund Pike. And it's a, I mean, it's a beautiful love story. Congratulations, man. Thank you. I think it debuted, what, Toronto Film Festival. And now here we get it out into the world.

Producing this one, it's obviously a subject of film that's close to your heart. Your wife's involved with it as well, I believe as a producer and an actor. Yeah, it's our production company, Yoruba Saxon, was part of making it. My wife is white. And so, you know, that wasn't the reason why we wanted to see this film made. I think, you know, hearing about Ruth and Soretti's challenges in terms of their marriage and the fact that they were an interracial couple and the amount of opposition they faced just makes us appreciate far more the fact that we didn't have to deal with that. Of course. So talk to me a little bit about the production company. When did that come in to be? And what's kind of like your own personal mandate for it? What are you looking

for and how does this reflect kind of what you want to put out into the world? That's a good question. Our production company has been going for two, three years now. United Kingdom is our fourth production as a production company. We've done five nights in Maine, captive, Nightingale, and now a United Kingdom. And I believe in the power of stories to make life better and, you know, to show us the best of ourselves. to show us the not so good side of ourselves. Hopefully we can learn from that. And, you know, I do think ultimately humanity is redemptive.

And every one of those films in its own way shows, you know, we don't shy away from the darkness, but ultimately we hope that there's a hint at the light. Yeah, I mean, as has been coming up probably in many conversations for you and for me on this podcast, I feel like we're all like searching for a little hope, a little light more than ever. and wherever we can get it.

And certainly films can be both an escape, but also hopefully an inspiration for people to realize that even in dark times, if you don't feel so happy with the world outside around you, there are truths to cling to, there's happiness to cling to, there's positivity out there, hopefully. Well, one of the things I'm really proud of in terms of our film is how two people

from completely different cultures, completely different countries, completely different backgrounds, come together, fall in love, see beyond their color, and their love overcomes an agenda against them by political institutions, by countries, by society, and they go on to win. And not only does their love gain the ability to grow as a married couple, but it gives birth to this nation, Botswana, that, you know, he was exiled from his own country. He had to abdicate his throne as the future king of his country,

but he goes on to become the first democratically elected president of his country, and he's able to implement as a leader that which he would want to see, as opposed to that which they had been subjected to from other countries. And I think in some ways why something like this works, like in that first act, you know, it's not as much about kind of the grander scale and about kind of like these kind of global implications for the country and for the world, it really, you have to kind of sell this love story first and foremost in this relationship and with two great actors like you in Rosamund. It obviously works. And, you know, I think it's hard, in a weird way,

this might make an interesting double bill with a film like Loving, which kind of like got a lot of attention as a kind of, you know, not a political story as much as just like a love story. And I think yours almost is not a flip side, but kind of an interesting kind of companion piece to that. Yeah, and that was always the prerequisite for me going into this is that it had to be a love story because it's a universal story. I don't think anyone rushes to the movie theater to see a densely political film, you know, in terms of the archaic and antiquated politics of 70 years ago, Great Britain, South Africa and Bichwana Land. I think, you know, the thing that is universal about this story is the fact that these. two people fall in love and it may sound a little corny but their love enables them to conquer all and I do believe in that you know I've been married myself for 18 years and I I know the power

of love no I'm not going to break into a power ballad not yet it's a long podcast I don't know see you teeing up that question it's not happening what I'm just getting a guitar out doesn't mean I'm going to play it just because we were born on the same day does not mean I am going to Freddie Mercury, myself, on your show. Podcast is young, my friend. This performance is great. And again, you kind of get to deliver some really rousing speeches in this. Obviously, if you saw your performance in Selma, you're no stranger to that aspect.

I'm also impressed by your ability. I don't know if this is a conscious effort. Like, the tear comes at, like, the moment you need it to come. Talk to me about that. Like, is that serendipity? Is that just you are a consummate trained actor? that can control his own tearducks. You're like Neo in the Matrix.

You have like all power. Oh dear. Well, every now and again, you get to play a role where you as the person overlaps enough with the character that you are feeling what it must have been like

to be them. And in the particular scene that you're talking about, I had thousands of extras in front of me. We shot this film in Botswana where these events took place. This film took seven years to get off.

the ground. You know, there are so many things about what Soretti is saying in that moment that I agree with. And so I think it was just one of those moments where everything came together in the way that you would hope. So in the moment after that take, are you like, yes. Oh, you are silly. Show me on playback. Because I think I nailed it. Yeah, that's a wrap, guys. I am my work here is done. Pack up your stuff. We're going back. someone give me a mic to drop that's exactly how I felt um no look you you you I we all felt that we had hit what we were hoping that that scene would be and you know that's that's what's in that's what's in the movie do you feel um I mean

in looking at your own career do you feel like you've led kind of like a slow and steady path like in the right direction from the get go I mean it seems like you know for film audiences in particular the last five years especially like it seems like suddenly you were everywhere, it seemed. But if you, you know, you do your due diligence and you, you know, you see your filmography and the television work you've done, you've been working for a while, obviously. Yeah. Does it feel like it's kind of like always been steady and you've always felt like you're on

the right path? Or have you, do you feel like things have revved up in the last few years to a point where, like, yeah, this is where I wanted to get to? Things have definitely revved up in terms of me having a degree of notoriety. Sure. That means both maybe an audience is more aware of myself, but also getting films that I am prepared to back getting those films made. The United Kingdom was a film that I've been trying to get made for over six years now. But it was Selma that really moved the ball down the field to the degree whereby we were able to get the green light.

We were able to, with the very same company, Pathay, who made Selma, we got a United Kingdom made. And there's definitely a shift in terms of for me as a producer, you know, getting things that I want to get done, done. But, you know, I've been an actor for 18 years. You know, I was at the Royal Shakespeare Company for three years. I did a TV show in the UK for three years. And then, you know, started doing movies in the UK before my wife and I moved here 10 years ago. And, you know, so it's been a – it has been a steady build. And part of that has been conscious.

You know, I say no to a lot of stuff that may have been more. more lucrative, but I don't think would be anything that would lead to an ultimately long career. And I do think that to try and go too fast too soon, the danger is that you're not giving yourself the ability to learn along the way. I think it's hard when you get very big opportunities early on in your career. They're very exposing and they don't necessarily give you the ability to grow so that when the really big opportunities come along, you have the level of experience and ability to meet with them. So, like, and the first, in terms of beyond theater, in terms of television or film work,

like notoriety, you probably experienced, correct me if I'm wrong, was probably thanks to spooks back home, right? That's right, yeah. Which was a huge show back home, especially. Yeah. And was there, did you feel at the time, yes, in hindsight, you know, it sounds, it makes sense what you're saying in terms of like, you know, I need to grow into my craft and be grown to the human being I am so I can, you know, accept all these opportunities.

Were you that being said, like, were you impatient 10 or 15 years ago saying like, where's my shot as maybe, you know, some of your contemporaries probably got an opportunity a little bit earlier on to headline a big Hollywood film? And you, for whatever reason, it came a little bit slightly later. Not that like, you're an old man, but it came like five years ago as opposed to at 25. Yeah, I was impatient about. it and that you know that's partly why i moved to the states in in a bid to um have the career i aspired to it wasn't happening in the way i would like in the UK that's for all sorts of reasons some of it you know we just don't make the enough movies in the UK and we certainly

don't make enough movies that have someone who looks like me as the protagonist um and that's what i wanted that those were my aspirations i guess what i'm saying in terms of being happy with how my career has gone and the pace at which it has gone is that, you know, that saying, careful, what you wish for is a truism. You know, things may have come earlier for me, but I may have burnt out sooner. I know for a fact that, you know, in my job, which is to portray humanity, you have to understand humanity. And that comes with age. That comes with time. And, And like I say, I've been a beneficiary of getting to live life alongside portraying life. That being said, it seems like in reading up on you, that you, it seems like you've had it figured out for a while, at least in terms of like you met your wife relatively early on, correct if I'm wrong, right?

You obviously knew what you wanted to do, it sounds like, from a relatively young age. So you've at least had those kind of like blocks to build a life around from the get-go. yeah it's easier to do those things though when you're in obscurity you know it's it's easier to stick to your guns you know in terms of our marriage for instance you know my my wife and i got married when i was 22 and she was 20 and we had this two week rule that we have stuck to for 18 years we're never apart for more than two weeks but if i had got i thought it was just spending only two weeks together oh yeah yeah only two weeks of the 52 is all we spend with each other because That's the way to go. Right.

I mean, you get bored. Can you imagine? Yeah. But, you know, almost naively in a sense, we decided very early on that that's what we want to do. But if some giant opportunity had come along early on that flew in the face of that, who knows if we would have stuck to it. But, you know, as we grew, we saw the efficacy of that and, you know, we're able to stick to it. Was the first, like, quote-unquote, Hollywood film you did, a sound of thunder, David? Wow, I thought you liked me.

You're going to out me on a sound of thunder? Look, I'm sure for good or for bad, very few of our listeners maybe have seen a sound of thunder. I want to sing a power ballad. Let's go back to that. You can either talk in depth about a sound of thunder, starring to great Ed Burns directed by Peter Himes. Is that right? That's right. Or you can sing a power ballad.

It's your choice. my friend. Dream on! Dream on! Sorry, I think I just blew the mic. So, look, we've all, it's not even a mistake. You take the opportunities that come your way. Yes.

Is there a warning from something? This was kind of, probably didn't work out in the way that you had hoped it would. Look, I had a great time doing that. We shot it in Prague, and it was the first major movie I had done. As you say, it did not come out as. well as I thought. But you know what? That was the film on which I had one of my most notable and memorable experiences with an actress. I had been obsessed with Catherine McCormack. Oh, yeah, yeah. From Braveheart, of course. Yep. You obviously had the same experience I did

with that movie and Catherine. We are Twinsies. We are. We are. We said that in unison. And she was in that film. And I remember, I was obsessed with her in Brave Heart. And I remember introducing myself to her and saying, I'm David O'Yolawa. And she went, oh, wow, that's a nice name. Oh, Yolawa, O'Yolwa. And then she came in the next day saying, I was lying in bed last night, just saying your name.

I love your name. And I literally was like, oh, my goodness, was Catherine McCormack lying in bed going, O'Yolow, O'Yolow, O'Yolwa. Oh, Yelow. That alone was reason to do sound. with thunder. So I don't care how much you knock it. I'm not knocking it. Look, I'm knocking it is the truth of the matter. But I got that experience. Well, I'm happy for you. It's interesting,

you know, you talk about sort of not getting the opportunities, especially in British films growing up, like people who look like you to star in a film in Britain, the kind of films that you wanted to be in. And I've heard you mentioned this particular performance, which I found interesting. Like, is it true that when you saw something like Adrian Lester in primary colors, which a great film by the way if people haven't seen it Mike Nichols and he's fantastic in it yeah was was that striking to you at the time and for what reason just that that's identifying your like oh that's i recognize myself in that on screen it was striking for me because you know it was synonymous with when i was just coming out of drama school and inevitably you know

when you have ambitions you're looking for other people who have an experience maybe akin to yours but they're further down the road and you're looking to them as an indicator of what may be possible. And Adrian is a phenomenal black and British actor who I had watched on British television. I knew did amazing theatre work. And here he was in an American movie, playing an American with huge movie stars.

And he was the lead. He's like the surrogate for the audience. He's like your entry point into that film. Exactly, exactly. And I had, of course, admired actors like Sydney Portier or Denzel Washington and, you know, because they look like me and so therefore you you transpose yourself onto them and you're okay, well, maybe that's, but that felt too far away. But seeing Adrian in that film, I hadn't seen that before. I hadn't

seen a black British actor get that kind of opportunity and it just opened up my view of what may be possible. There's more happy, sad, confused coming up after this break. I'm curious. I mean, we've kind of like already talked a little bit around this subject already, but for like, you know, for actors that that listen to this or people that are like early on in their career that are, it always strikes me of like how much control an actor has about their own path because I've talked to many actors about like, you know, the luxury of

choice that only comes when you achieve a certain measure of success. Did you feel like, I mean, how does a young actor that doesn't necessarily have choice, exercise, control about their own career? Is there a way to do that? You always have choice. It's a question of how brave you're going to be and how much you're going to connect with the fact that you do. The most power you have as an actor is the ability to say no. And even early on, there were things I said no to, regardless of whether I needed the money or not, or whether they seemed like an opportunity that, okay, they may give me more exposure,

but they just didn't chime with my opinion of myself or what I wanted to put out into the world, or if they were a perpetuation of stereotypes and caricatures, that's something I didn't want to be part of. Because I think there is a real effect, you know, when as a black man you are portraying roles that perpetuates certain stereotypes and caricatures that are not moving. moving things forward, socially speaking.

Now, that may sound a little lofty and not necessarily something you should burden yourself with as an actor. But if you have a gripe with it, if you have complaints with it, if you see that society's estimation of who you are as a black person, which is perpetuated by these images through the media or film, and then you step into that, well, what does that make you? What does that say about you? and how are you, you know, being what you want to see in the sense?

And so that's why, very early on, I made the decision to say no to things that I didn't believe in. Was there a great actor that you got to work with on screen early on that made a significant impression on you, besides Catherine McCormick saying your name, whether it's a farce Whitaker or whatever, just like just watching someone from afar and seeing them then up close and learning how they're, you know, accomplishing their craft, particularly on a film set that, that affected you? Yeah, so big time. I mean, I got to work with Kenneth Branagh fairly early on. He directed me in a film version of As You Like It, and I had always admired him. We just had the lovely Bryce Dallas Howard in here the other day.

Right. Right. Yes, yes, yes. He was Rosalind to my Orlando. And, you know, what I'm so full of admiration for him is he's such a hyphenate. You know, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, He writes. He, of course, is a great actor. And when I was growing up in the UK, there weren't many British actors who did that. You know, we have a lot more of that here in the States. And he was a real inspiration to me. But as you say, working with Forrest Whitaker, who, you know, in Lasking of Scotland that I was in, I watched close up what method acting is. I had always disparaged it. that's a little self-indulgent. But when you see that performance

and when you get to see it being constructed on set, you really understand the cost of playing a role of that nature. And I got to experience that again on Lincoln with my idol when it comes to acting Daniel DeLewis, who similarly is someone who's so dedicated to any character he plays. and the results are undeniable. So some of the opportunities I've been granted since working with those guys has very much been influenced by them in terms of how I go about building a character.

I saw Daniel Day Lewis like two months ago walking into a sporting goods store near me, and I was just like, oh my God, he's studying to play a guy that shops at a sporting goods store. This is a man in his el-like. I assume there's no off-switch. He is always preparing for the next. So listen, now my... ambition is anything I do that anyone sees in public. I want that's research. Wow, that's David Yelwa. He must be about to play a guy who's going to be getting into a cab. Yeah,

you know, that's what I want. In your next role, you're going to be a podcast guest, apparently. Oh, they didn't send you the memo? Oh, no. This is research. You mean nothing to me. I am using you right now. I had a nickel for every time the guest told me that. The journey of Selma, which obviously I know I mean, you told that story just in terms of like that was a project that was around for a while that you were attached to even prior to Ava coming on board and you were instrumental in getting Ava DuVernay a part of that since you'd work together. So was it, was it Lee Daniels at first that was attached to that when you were attached to it or was it like Spielberg? There were so many names that were. There were so many names. No, Lee was the one who actually cast me in the film.

And it was such a difficult film to get made for reasons that are both troubling. and confusing, but because it was so hard to get made, we made the butler and the paper boy instead, and Lee, you know, for anyone who's seen the butler would understand why making both the butler and Selma would not necessarily be attractive to him. So, you know, he moved on and that's when I was able to suggest Ava. So was the, and such a phenomenal performance and a gift to just film fans that like it kind of helped launch Ava to a whole other kind of like, you know, ability to get films of all stripes made now. She's making a huge, you know, sci-fi fantasy movie now, which is very cool. Amazing. Was, and, you know, the end product

of that, the silly kind of award season, which we're back in again here, you know, there was a tinge of, of grief and upset and people being upset with that, with the way that went down and that it got some recognition, but not for you and not for Ava. Did that kind of affect your appreciation and love of that process? Was there a bitter taste in your mouth at the end of it? you know what selma was such a dream come true pardon the pun considering who i play in the film but it really was and and so yeah it was it was unfortunate that you know the words snubbed and robbed kept on being lobbed my way um because you know so much of what that film has come to represent not just for me but the audience has been incredibly positive and and to be perfect

honestly, you know, that stuff has kind of, well, no, it's a lie. I was going to say it had gone away. Every award season, it sort of seems to come up again. Sorry, people like me bring it up. People just like, mad. They're just mad. They're so upset. But, you know, even above and beyond that, people's love for the film. Yes, the film has greater resonance than a silly kind of awards process. Exactly. Exactly. And like I've often said, you know, films are for life, not just for award season. And often we can't remember what won what what was nominated for what and you could argue actually that me not being nominated went on to gain me more notoriety there were there were people who were so mad about it that you know anything i do they're like yeah man we're going to support you

i can't believe that those mother you know so uh so you know i'll i'll take that the thing that always and when i saw the film a number of times in that season that still boggles my mind is that you guys didn't have the rights to those speeches. Right. And those had to be written in the speech of you had to deliver them in the speech in the way he would deliver them, but have to kind of basically, oh, that's, that's an easy job, recreate a different kind of Martin Luther King Jr. speech out of thin air. And I mean, were you, when you were in the quote unquote zone of that character, did you feel

an ability to, like, could you have like improvised in the guys of Martin Luther King Jr. at the time? I had a sense of his rhythm enough that I could tell when I wasn't in the zone. And that's what informed how Ava and I went about building his speeches. You know, he had this rule of threes. He had this call and respond a way of giving speeches. There were very clear rhythms to the way he would give a speech that, you know, we deconstructed and built back up through the course of the speeches. I wouldn't say that I could just improvise a Martin Luther King speech.

But what about singing a song in the guys? Now you're talking. I was hoping you were going to ask. No one's asked me that before. I spent so much time learning how to do that. The musical version of Selma on the cutting room floor. Let's do it. Well, that being said, that's obviously a joke.

But like there was talk of, I mean, would you like to, is there a, is there a, is there other story, obviously there are other stories of that character, of that real life. Like Spielberg has, I think, talked about potentially working with you in a different part of Martin Luther King's life. Has that come up recently? Is that something you would still be interested in? It hasn't come up recently. I mean, what happened was Mr. Spielberg had seen Salma and he had a project of his own that he's been trying to get off the ground for a long time. In fact, the reason we didn't have the actual speeches for Salma is because he owns the rights for his biopic that he hopes to do one day. And he, you know, thankfully he liked my

performance and asked me if I would consider doing it again. At that time, the idea couldn't have made my stomach turn more because it was an incredible mountain to climb to do that film and to be in those shoes. But I don't know. Never say never. There are definitely more chapters of the Dr. King's story and the civil rights movement that are very much worthy of being told. You just recently, correct me if I'm wrong, wrapped up a stent here in town as Othello opposite Daniel Craig. That's right.

It was a hot ticket. I couldn't get in there, man. I really wanted to. You should have called me. All you had to do was say we were born on the same day. The April first hotline that we all call into. Yeah, man. That would have made that happen.

Now I know for the next time. Okay. Can you just, you know, do it with two-man, version just for me next week? I don't know. I call Daniel up. He lives in New York. He scares me.

I'll be honest. He's an intimidating guy. Really? I've interviewed him, but you know he's intimidated. Come on. Oh, not after you've worked with him for months and months. What's the secret to melting his scary heart? Tickling him.

That sounds like a horrible. You're selling me down the river. I'm going to come back with a black guy. I'd be like, David! You don't want to tickle him? I wouldn't. He's very giggling. Yes. He's very, very giggly.

No, he's a, he's a wonderful, wonderful human being. Goodness me, what a great actor. I had such a great time with him on that. But I, you know, I guess his persona, which is probably what you're talking about, is what, you know, enabled him to play just the most extraordinary Iago in that play as well. I don't know. I've walked by him on the street and he looked like he, the way he walked, it was like a longshoreman out of like on the waterfront.

He was just like ready to hurt me. Let's talk about what you were doing. Were you gawking at him? I don't do that. I'm cool that way, man. Were you doing a funny walk? That's the only walk I have. Well, that's why he looked at you like, you know, who's this crazy guy, gawking at me with the funny walk.

I apologize in advance. That's why you're on the street, David. They keep me in this podcast booth for fear of exposing my funny walk to the rest of the world. You both have played James Bond. That's true. Look at that segue. Yeah, very good. Did you compare notes on your bonds?

Because you did audio books, right? Yes, yes, yes. Did we compare bonds? Is he aware of your bond? That sounds rude, by the way. What happens in the dressing room, stays in the dressing room? It does. I've already revealed the tickling.

No, we did not compare bonds. For me, he is the best bond. It's amazing. He is, you know, of anyone who's played it, He's my bond. I think he's so great at that role. I just had a Dan Stevens in the other day. All of you guys that are in the right age range get, you know,

lumped into this kind of conversation that comes up all over again. It's a nice conversation to be in. You'd rather be in it than not be in it, I suppose. It's very nice. It's a nice little club. Okay. So taking yourself out of the running, who gets your vote as the inevitable next bond? Do you have to go a different kind of an actor than Daniel?

You know what? I like Daniel in that role so much. I would only advocate someone I don't like, taking up Bond, because I just think you are that's a hiding to nothing. Those are big shoes to fill. So the question should be, so tell me who you hate. I don't like. Okay, Fab. Now we're talking. Let it be known, you dug your own hole here. I know, I know. No, I couldn't possibly say. I couldn't possibly say. No, I actually am so heartened by the sheer amount of love there is for Idris in that role, not because I think that, you know,

Idris should jump in and play Bond, but I just, it's clear there's an appetite for him or someone like him to play a role like that. And that, the ball has moved down the field. And I think that ball has moved down the field a while ago. It's social media, the audience's ability to make their voice heard, you know,

has made it that we now know. there's an appetite for this. But, you know, you speak to Hollywood. You speak to heads of studios or the people who could have made these kind of decisions maybe 10 years ago. They'll tell you the audience isn't ready. Yeah, invariably, they're five or 10 years behind the curve. Which is very clear, which is why our industry is struggling. But yeah, I'm very heartened by the fact that the audience has made its desire known. So Black Bond, a female doctor who all bets are off. Hey, let's do it. Right. One film that I'm excited to see you in in the not-so-distant future is, is it called God Particle?

Is that what were, do we know the title? It was God Particle when we shot it. It is part of the Cloverfield world. You're now allowed to say that. I am allowed to say that. And so, you know, I imagine Cloverfield will be part of the title in some way. The Cloverfield Particle? The, uh, you horrible at titles.

Walking and titles. Walking, titles. Birthdays. How am I at interviews? You're very, very good. I was just, I'm begging for. No, this is a lot of fun. This is a lot of fun.

Everything else, horrible. That's why you're holed up. I wondered why they were bars on the door. I have one singular talent. So did you know it was Coderfield related when you signed on? Look, listen. You know JJ will come up in here. I think I signed a contract that said he has the rights to one of my children.

if I speak too much about this film and I like my children I can't say anymore that look the one thing I can tell you about the film yeah what's your talking point David I'm in it great that I can tell you for sure are you content with your role in the Star Wars universe

or are you greedy do you need more do you need live action David O'Yllo 2 appear because you're in rebels I am I am in rebels have you seen the character I play in Rebel I confess I haven't. Agent Callas. Okay.

So he's white with red hair and mutton chops. You can do anything. Listen. Even I have limits. Even I have limits. Should we wipe me up and see how much controversy we can whip up in the Star Wars universe? Maybe do avatar style. Don't actually use makeup, but do it like, you know, put the balls on the face.

I don't know. Let's mix this thing up. Okay. Look, Othello was played by white people for so long. Let's just redress the balance. Star Wars is the modern-day Shakespeare anthology. I think... The worst idea is Stargerbinks.

You heard it here first, people. Oh, Mike, can you imagine? Well, I'm very happy for your multifaceted career. Look at all this exciting stuff you've got going on. Anything we miss? Anything coming up that we should look out for? I also have a film directed by Nash Edgerton. That's an action comedy.

It doesn't have a title yet either. Don't attempt it. Wait. The Nash. I'm not going to try. The silly walk film, the untitled silly walk film. The untitled silly walk film. You are.

It's a car crash over here. Mind you. Mind you. I didn't tell you what it's about. You said action comedy. It's action comedy. What's your character name? Help me out with that.

My character is Harold Shoyinka. That's a hard one to build up. That's a hard one to build up. You made it really difficult on me, man. I almost feel like you made up that time. I saw you digging deep. I saw you digging so deep. Let me try and just claw my way back. Who does that?

No, leave it alone. Leave it alone. But that's exciting. Is Joel in it as well? Joel's in it as well. Charlie's Theron's in it. Amanda Seafreed's in it. Tandy Newton's in it.

Charlton's in it. You know, great, great, great cost. Sold. Okay, well, in the near term, United Kingdom, out in theaters this Friday, everybody check it out. David, it's good to see you, man. Despite all the silliness, I feel like we broke some ground here. Yes. I feel like we went deep.

Wow, we're family. We are. I'll see you at Christmas. Oh, no. I've made a grave error. Thank you. Thank you. With one of the best savings rates in America, banking with Capital One is the easiest decision in the history of decisions.

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See Capital One.com slash bank for details. Capital One and a member FDIC. Goodbye. Summer movies, Hello Fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down

late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Shalamee playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget. Forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos' Bugonia. Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis's return from retirement.

There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about, too. Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2, and Edgar writes, The Running Man starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.