Happy Sad Confused - Taylor Kitsch

Episode Date: September 8, 2017

Taylor Kitsch may always be Tim Riggins to some but he's come a long way from "Friday Night Lights" thanks to memorable roles in "True Detective", "The Normal Heart", and yes, the underrated "John Carter". Now he's visiting Josh to talk about going bad in "American Assassin" opposite Dylan O'Brien and Michael Keaton. But there's another role on Kitsch's mind that they have to discuss, playing cult leader David Koresh in the upcoming "Waco" series, a role that's still haunting the actor. Plus Kitsch talks about his life in Austin, invites Josh to the house, and teases his upcoming directing debut! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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See Golden Nuggett Casino.com for details. Please play responsibly. Today on Happy Second Fused, Taylor Kitch, on American Assassin, playing David Koresh, and directing his first feature film. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy Second Fused. Our second this week, an embarrassment of riches. I'm Josh Horowitz, joined as always by Sammy for the intro. Hey, Sammy.

You're spoiling them, Josh. I know. Two in a week. It's not always going to be this way, guys. but I couldn't pass up bringing Taylor Kitch in. Thank God. Your mouth to God's ears. Not mad about it.

He is our second actor from American Assassin. Of course, we had Dylan O'Brien in the other day. And Taylor's always welcome here. I've always been a big fan of his. Of course, Friday Night Lights is what many people first got to know him from. But I certainly was with him all along the trail of John Carter and Savages. and he was in here for the normal heart last, which was actually three years ago.

That was three years ago? Yeah, we were saying it was three years ago. He was on the podcast, and he's just one of my favorite guys. He's like, what you see is what you get. He's very sweet and kind of like, you know, in it for the right reasons. He's living in Austin for, I think, like, a dozen years now. You going to go visit him? We talk about him in the podcast.

I got the big invite. Oh, boy. We broke through. Oh, no, he's a, he's a very talented actor. and serious about his craft, and you'll hear a lot of passionate talk about not only American Assassin, but I was super curious about this next film that he, I think it's actually a six-hour film that's debuting next year on a new, like, Paramount, I think it's called the Paramount Network that's starting next year, that's called Waco. It's about the siege at Waco, and he plays

the cult leader, David Koresh. We ended up talking at length about that, partially because I was interested, but also once we started on that tangent, he was clearly passionate about and it was a big, big role for him and a big stretch. He showed me a photo of himself in character, and he, like, lost, like, a lot of weight, and he's just totally transformed. That changes things.

Because I was thinking if he looks like Taylor Kitch, yeah, I'd join that cult. Well, but, you know, I mean, I don't want to, like, ruin what we talk about, but, like, yes, like, I mean, look, to be a cult leader, you have to actually be charismatic and, like, you know. Look like Tim Riggins. I guess so.

So, a lot of talk about that, a lot of talk about American assassin, this cool new action flick that stars him and Dylan O'Brien. Michael Keaton, as well as his directing debut. He's going to be directing pretty soon. So, you know, always an actor that's not complacent to say the least. And he's, he's, he has a really cool career going.

And, you know, he obviously has dabbled in, like, the big budget kind of franchise things, like the infamous, like, John Carter thing. But he also is ready and willing to do kind of, like, quirkier, interesting kind of ensemble things. And then, like, doing something like Lone Survivor, which was so well, received. And he's also got another cool-looking ensemble coming up called Only the Brave that comes out, I think, in a couple

months, and it's him and Miles Teller and Josh Brolin. So look out for that as well. All of our favorite Sammy. I was going to say, that is, you got to get them in for an after-hours. Yes. I don't know if that's the right movie we do it. But we did a sketch around Lone Survivor, which was bizarre. Yes.

Everyone should go back and watch that. The most unlikely sketch after hours ever did was a sketch with that whole crew, Walberg, Emil, Hirsch, Am I missing something, Taylor Kitch? Taylor Kitch. Is there a fourth? It wasn't, Ben Foster wasn't in there.

I feel like I'm missing one person. I keep on wanting to say someone who I know it wasn't. I'm blanking. But it's a fun sketch. It was look up the after hours holiday special with Mark Wahlberg. If you want to go down memory lane for that. God. That was a weird one.

So by the time you listen to this, Sammy and I are probably in Toronto for the film festival. You'll hear, I believe, at least one podcast. I'm taping next week in Toronto with a very cool filmmaker. So I don't want to jinx that, but you will want to check that out very soon, as well as upcoming guests. I can mention this. Nikolt was just in here,

so Nicholas Holt will be on very soon, and a lot of other really cool folks. And an amazing sketch we just did. I didn't know if you were going to say it. We can tease it. Because we shot it and said it happened. You never want to jinx it before it happens. But keep a look out for a sketch with the Outlander.

guys they left like five minutes ago yeah sam and katrina just left as an outlander fan sammy as an outlander fan i promise you all i did good by us we did good by us sammy helped write the scripts well what you really you needed help with the language no i wanted to make sure this was faithful to because they are in character guys they are in character so um i'll i'll tweet about that Sammy, I'm sure we'll tweet about it. So if you want to make sure you don't miss that sketch, and I think it's going to be a good one. You can't miss it.

Follow us on social media. I'm Joshua Horowitz. What are you again? Sammy Heller. Of course, Sammy Heller. That's a Y. S-A-M-M-M-Y. And speaking of spreading the good word,

please remember to rate, review, and subscribe to Happy Sank Infused on iTunes. Do it for Taylor Kitch. Do it for me. Do it for all that is good in the world. No, but seriously, the reviews and ratings do help spread the good word. So if you could take a second to do that, it is much appreciated. And let's throw it over to a conversation with the dashing, the charismatic. Whoa.

The gorgeous. The gorgeous. Taylor Kitch. He had short hair, everyone. I know that that's important. Yeah, and we don't cover that. So thank you, Sam. No, he had short hair. So just keep that in mind.

If you have your Taylor Kitch doll in front of you while you're doing this. T-shirt, jeans, and short hair. You're all welcome. Okay. And here's an actual conversation, too. Kitch is in the house. Good to see you, buddy. Yeah, I am. Good to be back. Three, what were we saying? Three plus years. How is this possible? What happened to us?

I gained 125 pounds. Yeah, you guys can't see it. He is a mess. It's genuinely disgusting. A little dry heave when we saw each other. From your end, obviously, looking at my body. No, I was sexually aroused. That's what I was. Oh, yeah. Flattering. No, it's been too long, man. Good to be back. It's good to see you.

So, yeah, last time I think we spoke, I was actually listening to our last conversation just so I didn't, like, go over the same territory. There were tales of drunk tanks in your early days. Oh, yes. Any drunk takes in the last three years? I need to know it. No, unfortunately.

How, that story, one, I can't believe I shared that. We were deep into the conversation. Yeah, right. I probably voluntarily they just spewed. But, yeah, that's definitely a true story. That's amazing. Yeah. Good moments, good beats.

So let's talk about, well, I'll talk about a bunch of things. First of all, you're still in Austin. Austin is a year for a decade now. I'm five weeks away from moving into the house on the lake, which feels I bought it the land seven years ago. Wow. So this has been a little endeavor. So the career can actually dictate when you move into a house.

Yeah, totally. How busy you are and, et cetera. But ups and downs and. Everything else, man. Yeah. For sure. How much of Austin is it about being in Austin and how much of it is about being anywhere but L.A.?

Is it a little bit of both? 90-10. Okay. Mostly Austin. Yeah. Yeah. I need to not be in that system in that whole mindset. Yeah.

That hit me pretty clearly right when I got to L.A. I just didn't. A little too much. Fit. It's just the lack of, I don't know, soul? Hey, you're talking to a New Yorker So I'm fine Yeah, you're fine

I can rip it away Yeah, I'm fine But yeah, it was just I don't know The traffic kills me And I mean there's great people there I got great friends there But it's just, I don't know

Just not my town man Has it had any costs Do you think to the career to be It's obviously not so far away What I mean? Arguably I think it helps Yeah Yeah I mean even normal hard

Or these kind of things Where it's like You kind of see their true colors or how serious they are, if they can't, I mean, everybody, if you can't have them, they want you more, right? Sure. Or access to me, not being down the road. But, you know, if you want to really talk about a gig

or you want me to, my hat in the ring and audition, then you got to get me there, you know, or so, you know what I mean? It just, it challenges that whole thing. So that's helped, I think, and I will say, like, just prep-wise, it's a 180 just being able to be oh just concentrate a little bit yeah like literally i mean waco's a great example just being in texas i mean obviously it's convenient being two hours from waco but um but just literally being in a room eight hours a day and researching not having like just shit to do parties that you don't need to be at or anything like that you know so it helps immensely dieting all

that can we actually talk a little bit about waco before we're going to too i'm gonna assess because i'm I'll talk about that, Tom, Blue in the Face. That's a problem. When I heard about that project, just based on the subject matter, for those that don't know, this is about the siege at Waco. You play David Koresh, this kind of like, you know, enigmatic, charismatic cult leader, I guess. I can say, right? I remember when this all went down.

You see my love of Michael Shannon on the wall here. Oh, yes. Michael Shannon's in that one, a crazy man. I love Mike, man. He's amazing. He won. he's a lot obviously he's so brilliant at what he does

and he's really the only guy that can do it at that level but he needs to do more comedy oh yeah I've done two sketches with him really I got to appreciate it because I mean you probably know from working with him now I don't know how much on these scenes you actually have yeah not a lot okay but like

yeah he is the driest man on the planet and I end up talking about him on this podcast all the time because I'm obsessed with him I think just in terms of sheer talent He's at the top of the game. He's all time, man. But I just love that, like, he, um, he intimidates people and he doesn't care. And he doesn't care about really, like, softening it.

Like, he's like, yeah, it's fine for me to intimidate you. Yeah. You should be intimidated. Yeah. Because I'm as kind of a scary guy. Yeah. Um, but Koresh. This is like a hell of a mind to get into for a while.

I'm not just picking out. I can show you what the look is. Oh, yeah, yeah. Because we're not on camera. And it's not out, obviously. It comes out. January 24th. Is this like, it's like a miniser? It's like a few episodes.

Six hours, yeah, which is the right way to do it. It was a movie at first. And then, I mean, you have to dive into this for it to be, to really get the scope of just what the fuck happened, man. To shed and bleed the honesty that deserves to be in there to, so I can't formulate because I'm trying to look at Dave's pick. But yeah, I remember this. What year did it all go down?

This is me as Karrasch. That's crazy. Yeah. That's amazing. That's the transformation thing. Yeah. Look at the sunken cheek. Like, man, you're like, that's legit.

But yeah, that was here. I mean, I'm... The back. I wish I, I wish it was. Grow that main. I know. The lion's mane. Oh, you know who I was talking?

Bingham. Ryan Bingham was a great country guy. I'm learning guitar because of Karrash. was months and months ago, and he saw the look of Koresh, and he called it a Kentucky waterfall. I thought that was awesome. Nailed it.

So, I'm going to use it, but I will give it, I'll give it to him, but that's all time. But yeah, so, I mean, it's life-altering this, that role. That was a bad one. It was huge, man. I mean, I think normal heart scared me at a

whole different level. And then this one, I literally was having a panic attack and almost you're getting like a lot of no one knows any of this shit but it's uh like five weeks before i almost pulled out and this was after three and a quarter months of prep and i had lost 25 i was just there's so many personal things or whatnot that were there through the process and was it about not thinking you could do it or not when to go there for a few months and like yeah you felt yourself already kind of there and then it was like the more you read into it

and the more of like it's a really intense role and it's it's there's some things I don't agree with obviously and I've never really dived really dived into a character like this that had done certain things that I truly can't understand

so as an actor's standpoint I couldn't really yeah it was hard for me to be like because Dave's all in like and you have to be obviously rhetorically but you have to be have to be beyond all in to believe and, you know, for me to emotionally connect and to play this honestly, you have to go, you know, which I love and that's what it's about. But there's

just some things that crossed into my personal life that, so it was, it was a really tough. And then, you know, I talked to a few actors that have played really shitty or really intense characters. And the thing that pulled me through was just not to judge. You know, it literally was that simple. Because you're cutting yourself off from a whole emotional aspect if you do judge these kind of guys. And it was like, this is what happened. This is literally what happened. And I listened to probably 40 plus hours of conversation and tapes.

And, you know, from the Child Protective Services to obviously Nesner, who's played by V. Mike Shannon and watched all the tapes and watched his upbringing a lot of tapes from his upbringing tapes he would send for recruitment to Australia to UK to Middle East to I mean this guy was fucking mad brilliant let's not make like this guy was an incredibly intuitive and we kind of equated it because I'm a simple like if you're going to give me direction don't water like don't give me 30 things to play if you need someone to bust on camera or more whatever it is, you know, like break the fuck down. Just say that. Right. Don't, you know what I mean? Like, I don't need a map. Yeah, yeah. In the scene, you're fucked up or

whatever. Yeah, so exactly, you know. But yeah, so that was the beauty of playing him too because he really did live with his heart on his sleeve and as an actor. It was like Kevin Carter and Bang Man Club. They're, yeah. Both kind of

were those type of guys in that sense you know like so he was just a magician with people man right the shit he would put those people through but also you know i mean we're going to go on long tangents because he's still i'm still getting through dealing and dropping him uh seven weeks ago so it's still for yeah it's still a bit yeah and um well any of the like i don't know if like because i remember growing up being obsessed with like the jones town yeah deal too yeah all these guys they are look i mean yes they they have to have something in them that elicits these followers. They have to be, like, they have to be like rock stars in their own right in a weird bizarre way.

This, I mean, literally, you just hit on the head. This, picture this. Who wouldn't take this up, all right? We, you know, the Dowdell brothers who wrote and dreaded are fucking awesome. And we'd be on set. We laughed quite a bit, too, which you need. in between takes and there is some great humor

at the beginning too before the shit hits the pen before the first siege but you got to picture this it was like Dave's birthday every day before this siege

I mean he would go on 1825 36 hour sermons walking through the house he would play the guitar so this guy wrote songs was a lead guitarist lead singer

would play at local bars all around Texas was trying to get a production album made in L.A. Was the only guy after this New Light Revelation, the only guy in the house of 120-plus people that could sleep with the women. Married or not, he's your guy. You know?

He's alpha male. Yeah, 24 elders, which he was creating. So, I mean, it's good to be Dave Krasch. You know what I mean? Like, in this world that he created. Yeah. I mean, it's, these are like these lighter moments of like before this whole thing happened, you know. And obviously there's some dark times and dark beats and there's so much you can dive into before the Brant, yes, the Brativians became them or how he got the compound was a whole movie if you want to go there, you know.

um the how that mugshot of dave was it's just incredible the stories are just insane and that was in the beginning but it was just it's so hard to get it all in you know from 15 years yeah so we did kind of just go from like six months before the siege right before the first siege and then the 51 day standoff then the obviously we all know what happens um The gassing, the house on fire, the, you know, I mean, shit, it's a crazy story. And I'm excited to show or shed some light on the injustice of it all. Where is it, is it a spike? No, yeah.

So it's at Paramount TV is kicking off. And Waco is their whole kickstart. So, yeah, yeah, we're excited. So in three weeks, you're going to see a 30-second teaser. and then and some stills of Dave maybe the one I just showed you but yeah you're singing

and so this sits on the shelf this is one of the two or three roles definitely for me just as a challenge and I just I wasn't ready five years ago for it you know the toolbox wasn't as big right you know and so yeah it was

it was incredibly fulfilling you felt like just you're serving something bigger as well you know it was just a shit show of what happened and it must must be also um satisfying given you giving me that background that you were they almost dropped out and you kind of were able to complete yeah i mean you know me enough that i mean it's it's hard i'm a fucking fighter man i'll you know what i mean like i love the challenge of it but there's like this moral ambiguity at the time that you're just battling that certain things affected you and my family that were just too close you know so and to go and play someone that has delved into this part of this and it's it's tough

yeah but so so so let's segue into something a little lighter which i mean it's weird to call american assassin yeah yeah because it's a super fucking intense movie i know it's a really good movie i really enjoyed it man and um and it's like this old school action yeah yeah and it's super gritty like i mean like the first scene like with dylan like it's harrowing it's it's it's your worst nightmare come to life And you got a really cool part in it. It was fun. You do.

You honestly do it. Because you have like the part that like, you know, the role that everybody's talking about. The character everybody's talking about. Oh, nice. Throughout the entire film. Oh, yeah. Totally. Yeah.

My best mate said that too. He's like, you know what's fucking great? Like the more they talk. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. And you know if like you're playing a character like called Ghost. I know.

If you're not in a Casper movie. Yeah. It's slimer. Yeah. And Taylor Kitch. that's a Ghostbusters review but is it fun to be like you know you're not the young punk in this one

that's Dylan I know You're a slightly older punk Yeah totally Is that kind of a fun place to be in your career right now I loved it yeah It's exciting We're doing the firefighting movie And Lorenzo D Bonaventura

Yeah And Lorenzo produced that And he came out to me on set And he's like man I got to see you try I mean if this hits you if you want to do it do it he's like I want to see you play this guy and he's like free rain it's not plugged from

Vince Flynn's book so you can build this guy from the ground up nice um so I was like man let me give her a read and then Mike Keaton obviously and I had my I was getting the tattoos done for McKenzie in the trailer and I was talking about whether I was going to do it or not in the age and it's like look you get to torture Mike Keaton I was going to say you get to

You know, it's like, this is a cool beat. It's, you know, this guy is, you can really, just from the ground up, you can build him up, and you haven't played a guy like this. And it's more fun. We had Dave Koresh coming up, so it's like, go take a breath before taking a real, yeah, you know. Yeah, it reminds me of, like, in the born films, like, they're always kind of like, they always cast really well, like the assassins tracking him, like the Carl Kloorne go in parts. Yeah.

Like, that's kind of what you've got. And they have very little screen time, but you remember it. Totally. Yeah, really well. So, wait, it strikes me. I was going to mention this to you before. Whenever I've always noticed this about you. I feel like every person that comes into contact with you gets a nickname.

You don't ever call somebody like, I'm probably like Horowitz as opposed to Josh or Keaton's Keaton as opposed to Mike. Yeah, Keaton. Is it usually the last name? Yeah, that's sports. Is it? So that's like junior hockey, hockey growing up. That's really. That's where, if Friday Night Lights, it's like William Street, you know, everybody, seven.

Yeah. What's the, do you, what's the, cons, Connie Britton. What's the weirdest nickname you have for a friend in your life? Oh, shit. Man, I don't know. Nothing too bad. And you're just kitch to everybody. Kitch, yeah, kitcher.

Okay. You'd be hero, probably. I'll take it. Or the hero. All right. Something like that. Right. It's a bit of a mouthful.

Yeah, it is. We got to shorten it a little bit. Yeah, it would be a lot. To, like, even sling a joke on top of that would be, like, just a deep breath. How do you penetrate? I feel like I'm on the outer circle right now, which I'm totally happy to be in Kitch World. I feel like to penetrate the inner circle, I'm going to need to devote a lot of time in the gym. I feel like everybody in your life probably is very physically fit.

Is this accurate? I will throw my best friend under the bus right now. He played ProHaw. hockey 10 years or eight years was fought for the Red Wings and played the minors. Tough guy, obviously. But he got a bit slot. He's got a fucked up shoulder. But, yeah, no, I guess so.

I think that's what you bond over, you know. Pete and I, we're going to go box, you know. It's just something that I guess you do together. Yeah, you really do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We would accept you, though.

You know what? You have to come. if you come down to Austin and if there's any if it's good weather doesn't even matter the fucking weather just come and stay at the house one night with the boys

I don't know if I could survive I'm going to be hazing I feel like Don't plan on any work before noon the next day That's fine I just want to get out of live Yeah you'll I mean I'm not even a start shit

I can't really hold my liquor too well Really? I don't have I mean I like to drink What do you drink? Like, all I hear is a blender going off right now. I do love a good friend in Mars. Fresh, yeah, the peanut collata and the water. Okay, what's the go-to drink in Casa Kitch?

What's that? I'm going to say, I just, I love a good Jack Daniels on the rock. Me too. Simple. Do you? Yeah, nice. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Nice. Okay. Yeah, yeah. All right. Next Austin trip. I'm hitting down. Yeah, you have to, truly. And I'm not just saying it because we're like on the air here.

We're not big friending it right now. Yeah. You're more than what. It's 25 minutes outside of Austin. Nice. If there's any sun, we'll get you on the boat. Get your wake surfing. I had Dylan.

This is a good little little full circle here. Yeah. So we're not just talking nonsense for 25 minutes. You're actually returning to the movie. Dylan, we had the premiere for us or one of them, Q&A in Austin, which was awesome to bring it there. Yeah. which I got to do way more of.

And Dylan got shattered the night of. We all had a feel after. And I texted him in the morning. I'm like he had like five hours before his flight to London. So I'm like, he was way too hungover. So I'm like, I'm picking you up. Let's go. I'll get you on the boat.

And we got him out there. And he hadn't been on a boat in like 15 years or something ridiculous. I know. And he was wake surfing in like 15 minutes. It's the hangover cure. It really is. Apparently. When the lake water hits you, it's awesome.

That sounds amazing. Yeah, it's great. I've only ever really been an awesome for South by, and it's just too frantic and crazy. It is, man. It's fun. This will be a good escape. So, okay, let's talk a little bit about just where you're at in terms of like the kind of the choices that you're making. Because it's exciting, like, I mean, as I said, like something like American Assassin.

Like, I think it's cool to do a popcorn movie like this where you don't have to carry the load. and you get to kind of steal a bunch of scenes from the likes of Dylan and Mike Keaton and then you're part of a cool ensemble with the only wave like are you and serving something with those guys yeah yeah exactly which is kind of along the lines of the lone survivor kind of yeah very crazy close right crazy

I mean 19 guys and both passed lone survivor in each one so is the is the ensemble kind of thing something that you've always been open to something you're more open to is it like are you totally not carrying Applying that at the beginning, it was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, who's one, two, three, and four on the call sheets? It's not kitch, kitch, kitch, kitch.

All I'm saying is, we know you can be the leading guy. You've got what it takes to do that. But I think it's also cool for, like, because a guy, you know, your age and your stature, like, can just kind of, like, coast on being kind of like, and they're often by roles to be, like, the leading guy in some of these roles. And sometimes the cooler role is to be the second or third. love it. Yeah. I think like from Norma to Kev Carter even I guess Savage's

I was one of the... I mean it's still an ensemble. Yeah, definitely. But you're obviously two or three people, yeah. I don't know. I think it's obviously, it goes down to character and the filmmaker, but some just speak for themselves. You know, it was a careful what

you wish for with Karras because I mean I will say like once I got the call and the doubtles were fans and they're like hey man they they want you to you know think about it and let's go meet and i'm like yeah i look them up obviously and right and you're like oh yeah i just this is going to be unreal i want to play like this and it's just like careful what you wish for when you start to dive into it that's a bit of ego no doubt sure um to be like the challenge i can you know this this and that but again it's in the degree then you're like oh shit yeah you know and it's

Nothing to do with number one or two, but it's like, wow, that's beyond leading something, you know. Right, right, right. But, yeah, I think I'm just super conscious of it. I feel I always have been. And I've always said, you know, I'm going to swing for the fences every time, you know. No, it feels like even, like, when we even started to talk in the first big films that came, like you had the right attitude. You kind of, like, knew that, like, um, how. unique those kind of opportunities were and like you know we talked to death over the years about

john carter and like you've got such a great experience out of like working with stanton and like come what may of it like you have the experience and i'm so glad i learned that then 10 year contract i'm not going to sign ever again really you know i don't know no no you know i had point. I had two 10-year contracts going with Battleship and then JC. Like, my life, I wouldn't be near the actor I am if I stayed in that groove. It's totally true. You wouldn't, not even close. No. And I wouldn't be able to do it justice. I don't foresee that, you know? Um, yeah, you think of someone like, I mean. But the most fulfilling, to interrupt, it's like, the most fulfilling is like, Kev Carter's still one of my favorite all time. I know not a lot of people saw. I know not a lot of

people saw it, but that was just a beat where I was like, wow, this is why I do what I do, you know? Yeah, Bang Man Club and then being as scared shitless as I was from normal heart Um, so there's there's truth to that, there's truth to that cliche of like if it scares you because you're saying

that, but like that's what that makes it worth doing. Like that makes it worth exciting and like the last thing you want to do is kind of coast that in your 30s. Like, no, fuck no. You know, when you work with these shannons and these guys, you know who just Paul Sparks was incredible.

He plays my right-hand man. He was on boardwalk forever. He's Broadway. He's a beast on Broadway, New Yorker, and just lives in New York. And he plays my right-hand man in Waco. Got it. Phenomen. And he's best friends with Shannon.

Shea Wiggum. Great. Awesome. He's one of those guys whenever he's on screen. He's very close with Shannon, and he's on the FBI. side and his arc is fucking beautiful. Really? Yeah. It's just so heavy

and... And I want to mention also you're going to be directing soon. Yeah. Yeah, we're having a meeting the car about it. Yeah. This is exciting, man. It is, man, yeah. So is this something, can you tell me a little bit sort of like why this is... That's obviously going to be a passion project. I mean, that's putting yourself

out there in a big way. Is it something that you've been thinking about for a while? Yeah, it took years to write. I did this short, which is just basically, let's see what I do with 20K and called in favors with actors and cameras and camera ops and yeah um and it came out really good and then it took a couple more years to write it to get to where i'm like okay i'm going to send it to another actor i admire you know yeah sure um it's a big send on the email i know man and i get you know you get these talks or these emails from other bodies of like hey i'm i'm doing

this do you want to do it and it's just a pile of shit yeah how do you You know. Here, tell me, I want to know. I'm, uh, I'm unavailable is a good one. And or I'm just like, mate, I'm just coming off this gig. I need a beat. Right. You know, I'll do, you know, I do it in a heartbeat, but yeah.

Just did Koresh. Come on. Yeah. For the next year and a half. I'm playing that car. Like two years ago? Yeah. I don't know what you're talking about now.

Yeah, totally. Still taking a toll, man. Yeah, we're doing a prequel or just talk about it. There's a junket coming out. Yeah, a junket. That's when it's really bad. Right, you know when you're calling the junket card? So, yeah, so this was, it's a script worked out.

Yeah, I'm really happy with it. And it's, I don't know if I even said this earlier, but I won't go too much into it. But it's about three best friends who grew up in the shittiest part of Detroit. And they all have, my guy is about to get married, has a five-year-old. and then another guy has come out of the military, discharged out of the military, and then another guy is taking the right route in life and is in residency at the hospital.

Three best friends, and they kind of come together to take an opportunity to change their own lives and their family lives by intercepting this drug drop in the Mexico, Texas border, and they all go through their own kind of cleanse and are changed forever from what happens there. I hope this is not based on a true experience you went through. No, but I will say, like, I grew up, you know,

kind of in the outskirts of the drug game and stuff like that. And I was, you know what I mean? So it's like I've seen or met a lot of these guys that are like a guy who used to pick up drops, you know, and stuff like that. So I definitely stole some of that. and the passion and interest to direct is it about just like getting the story told that you want to tell tell for a while or is it like I want to see what kind of director I am I mean you did the short yeah like you know this is something that like you know both just like selfishly from a career

perspective it's good to kind of like do different things and you know adapt and change but like or have you been having the itch for a while like you know I think I think I have a sensibility that for me and maybe this is convincing myself not that there's not a lot of pressure but it's more of just I'm still a storyteller I still I just I know I have an eye

and I can if I grab the guys that I want for this like I mean any director I'll tell you 80% is casting and I've casted

three already they're fucking great actors so I'm in good hands there and they just get the tone they get it you know their notes back are like okay you want to

do it. It's like, I'd love to play this guy. Because he, you know, as an actor, you know, who helped me a lot was Taylor Sheridan. Have you seen his movie by the way? Yeah, Win River terrific. Yeah. I was with him during that whole process of, we'd just

bat stuff back and forth, but he's awesome. And he just plainly just would send a note of just being like, and it goes a long way, he's like, write what you want to see. Write a a character that you would want to play

keep it that simple don't start writing for ratings don't start writing of what this is going to mean blah blah blah you know and it's like it really was that simple and so that's why I think I can hook these actors that I've hooked because I comes from a real place there's one actor we literally casted last week who plays my best friend

who's about to just pop huge and we're just facetiming talking about it And it's, I literally challenge him in the sense of like, I want to go 20 minutes in this movie without you saying a word. Let's see what you can do, you know. And as an actor, if you've watched any, like I love less is more. And I love, and he's just like salivating, you know? And that's when you know you got the right guy. Totally.

Because he's just like, oh, bring it. You know, so. Challenge me. Yes. And so I'm going to sit on this guy with the camera and just, you know, just sit in there with him. So it's a $3 million movie. Where are you shooting at, Becca? Detroit and Texas.

Yeah, so. That's awesome. Yeah, I'm excited. So I'm curious, like, you know, you talked to a little bit earlier about, like, the kind of direction you want as an actor. Like, you almost, like, don't want a ton of, like, conversation. Like, get right to the point. Tell me what you need.

Right. If you're directing me. Yeah. Yeah. Has that changed over the years? Like, are you the kind of, like, what do you respond? on to on set, like in terms of do you want a director to be like, great job,

great job, or is that like all bullshit to you? Or is that helpful? That's the doubt. Really? Yeah, but he's so genuine. So it feels real. John and Drew, yeah, they really are. It's like, and Koresh is so big sometimes and so emotional and so, so

he would just come out and he would be crying or something watching. He's like, dude, we don't need to go again. Do you want to go again? That was blah, blah, blah. And it's like, I appreciate it for sure. And then you got Dirty Pete Berg who works completely different, you know. What does he say after a take that he likes him, Holly? He'll either scream, yes.

And then he will say, like, great job. It looks great or whatnot. Or he'll start, I mean, Pete's his own entity, really. But yeah, I don't like the raw, raw, the fake. Like, oh, my God, that was a minute. And even your gut is like, we got to go again. you know what I mean clock's ticking

that was actual shit and if you think that was good that's the worst indicator all in trouble yeah this show's gonna suck I'm sure that's happening and now I'm gonna get lazy

because you think that was good you know and what kind of director do you think you'll be in terms of like your attitude real real yeah I'll never be like that was shit right but I'll be like, just push it.

Yeah, you'll talk to them the way you would want to be talked to. Yeah, for sure, for sure. No, I'm not going to appease. But you, I mean, we're a little, we can be giant pussies sometimes. No. Actors?

Yeah, I know. Insecure actors? Yeah, I know, right? It's an oxymoron. So, so that's probably the next thing. You're going right to prep on that? Yeah, we got crazy press for Only the Brave.

And then Koresh after in January, or November, January, but, but yeah, directing, I think it would be, I'd go that route for sure. I mean, in the sense of how I would direct, I don't know, like, let's not waste time. I love shooting quick. I have to trust you to bring it on the first, second, third take, and let's move, you know, keep you on your toes that way and not let you settle too much. That's big for me. No one likes 12 takes. And you, you know, what you know what you're doing you come prepped and ready yeah it's the classic clint eastwood kind of thing i mean that's a beautiful thing i mean that's almost like absurd it's like yeah it's like one

take i know i know yeah i would love to swing for that though i mean pete's pretty known i love oneers you know even just a long steady or one big wide and just sit in it yeah there's a couple in in mine that are written that way um yeah Any appetite to do a comedy? I'd like to see you. Yeah, man, I'd love to. I mean, McKenzie's the humor in Only the Brave. Chris McKenzie, for sure.

You meet him, and he's talking about this stripper that he had sex with the night before, and it's a pretty funny scene. And he's just kind of the light of the whole thing. And that's who he was when he was alive, and he's just a life. You know, he really, every day that guy would, you know, if they're on the line for 14 hours and they get off on a Friday and start Monday again,

a lot of guys will just obviously go home to the families and just sleep. He'll literally go for a run, catch a plane, go to a concert overnight, go hard, then come back and get back on.

You know what I mean? The guy, like, just every day was like, so I love that about him. I'm excited about nothing else. Yeah, you and I've always been a big fan of Miles. Yeah,

he does good work in this. He's a good one. and Brolin, of course. Brolin is, I will say, I've written two letters in my career to another actor, and I had to send Connolly a note after this. It was just, she blew me away, man. Really? She's phenomenal in this.

She's just a beast, yeah. She's one of those that, yeah, she kind of. And in a movie with 20 guys, you got a man's man in Brolin who does, there's just some beast. in there that in this movie and you'll feel it when you see it just meant so much to him yeah during prep and just he led this movie just in the best way possible through his prep and through his action and his work so I love the guy he's great and um you'll see it but connolly as well and a movie that's so male driven in this sense of like really one of the only females we truly meet in the movie i mean in the heavy lifting that she has

she just dealt with it so well and comes across so strong and she's just fantastic. She strikes me as a pretty intense actor. Yeah. It's, in my experience with her, she's like, she's like, she's seriously. Yeah, which I love, you know. And I remember, obviously, I'm not there on the days we're rolling shooting with her. Yeah. With all the house stuff and the relationship stuff.

And Kaczynski, who directed it, did a beautiful job in that balance, which is always tough to do. He's an interesting director He's awesome, man I don't know if you know this My brother's a writer And he wrote hit the Trom movie Come on Yeah

Really? I spent some time with you No way Yeah yeah That's awesome Yeah pretty cool I love Joe man Yeah he's a good guy

We just did It was funny because We did obviously only the brave And And there's You know He's juggling this story 20 other actors

Blah blah blah So he We really dug working with each other And he's really great in that sense directing-wise. He lets you fly, but he'll rain you in when it's, you know, I go way too over the top, which Mac would do sometimes for sure. So that was fun playing him that way, but so then I get an email from Joe and he's like, hey, you know, I had such a blast. We're doing

this little short at Sony, you know, you want to do it. And I'm like, yeah, you know. So we went and shot this short with him and Lily Collins and who's terrific too. I never met her, worked with her. She's great. Yeah. She's just in here a few months ago. Cool gal, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. But yeah, that was just flattering. I didn't know it was with Joe. It was, you leave on great terms, but it was just like, he's been tracking you kind of thing. And so there's a little bromance with Kaczynski and I know. So I'm a big fan, man. He's just really, really, as you know,

just incredibly smart. Yeah. And I was, like, literally breaking down at school and everything, which is, I was like, wow, okay. Yeah. I mean, because, like, even just seeing that first Tron film, you knew he could handle the spectacle, and it's cool. Yeah. He's also an actor's director. He really is. And how technical Tron is and coming from commercials, there's a negative connotation as an actor when you hear of like, man, check out this commercial. It's beautiful. It's like, um, is there any dialogue I could listen to? curiosity. I'm going to speak in this film, so I just want to see how it would work. Yeah, totally. And him going, you know, Fincher and him are really close and just like, so technically

he's literally brilliant. And then to have that little, when he can work with you and understand it, too, he was great. So would you be, but we talk about the Eastwood thing, Fincher's on the total other end. Oh, I know. Would you be interested in going, just like for the experience to see what it's like? Yeah, he's still, his movies are still terrific. I'd still I'd love to even Joe was like oh you gotta work with him like oh let me just call Fincher then yep oh Joe you're right it's he wants yeah we're actually gonna hit camera next week that's all I

need to do just say it yeah yeah good to know yeah but yeah I'd love to yeah he's top five for sure it'd be um that's my taxed what's the sound it's the wolf hold on maybe another one comes in no not um so no 10 year contracts maybe yeah some more comes to jo kaczynski maybe a fincher and you're yeah coming up there's a lot going on yeah and then you're gonna be i'm gonna come back for waco yes please do so i will yeah that's as i said there's everything about that project really intrigues me you know what we should do is get shannon and i in here let's do it the the shannon podcast i did is i gotta listen to is it really because it's like i can't even describe it it's 45 minutes of just sheer insanity

you would enjoy it. Give me more. Like, what do you mean? Well, he's so fucking dry. I know. And we just like, I think, I think the reason he likes me is that I'm willing to like poke at him and kind of like give him shit. And I think, as I said in earlier, I think people are so used to like, they're so scared.

Yeah, like just, okay, whatever you want, do that. My favorite thing is to like see like at a junket, someone walk into Mike Shannon's room and just walk right out and they're like, I don't know what the fuck just happened. That was the worst thing ever. Yeah, basically, you have to, like, learn how to speak Mike Shannon. There's a trauma center down on the third floor. There should be. Yeah, it ended with him, like, playing with the, I think I had his action, his general

Zodd action figure. This is good. Awesome. Yeah, he played a non-sexual aspect only once. Cash only, dear. Yeah, so basically, I'm calling a, uh, for a Mike Shannon to come entertain me. We end up playing Twister. Wow.

Really? Yeah. See, you're not the only one that I've subjected to. stupidity. I love it. I'm genuinely going to, he's such an intriguing cat, man. He is. He is. Watch them for days, man. It's very exciting and always pleasurable to see you, buddy. Always good to be back. It's been too long. It's been way too long. Let's not make it three years again. Hopefully I'll see you for Waco. And if not, I'm just going to crash your pattern. Bring it. I literally will get your number here. I appreciate it. Thanks, buddy.

Dick picks en route. That's a way to end a podcast. Yeah. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. Goodbye, summer movies, hello fall. I'm Anthony Devaney.

And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the ultimate movie, podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Salome playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos' Bougonia. Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis's return from retirement.

There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about two. Tron Aries looks exceptional. plus Mortal Kombat 2 and Edgar writes The Running Man starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.