Happy Sad Confused - Telluride Special with Michael Shannon, John David Washington, & Danielle Deadwyler

Episode Date: September 5, 2024

Josh has made his annual pilgrimage to the Telluride Film Festival and he's come back with a pair of exciting interviews! First up is one of our faves, Michael Shannon, talking about singing and dancing his way through the end of the world! Next it's John David Washington and Danielle Deadwyler talking about their big screen adaptation of August Wilson's THE PIANO LESSON! Subscribe here⁠ to the new Happy Sad Confused clips channel so you don't miss any of the best bits of Josh's conversations! SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! GreenChef -- Go to GreenChef.com/happysadclass for 50% off your first box + 50 FREE Credits with ClassPass! UPCOMING EVENTS! Kathryn Hahn 9/13 -- tickets here! Kate Winslet 9/23 -- tickets here! Zachary Quinto 9/29 -- tickets here! Andrew Garfield 10/4 -- tickets here! Anna Kendrick 10/22 -- tickets here! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When you're with Amex Platinum, you get access to exclusive dining experiences and an annual travel credit. So the best tapas in town might be in a new town altogether. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Terms and conditions apply. Learn more at Amex.ca. The twisted tale of Amanda Knox is an eight-episode episode Hulu original limited series that blends gripping pacing with emotional complexity, offering a dramatized look as it revisits the wrongful conviction of Amanda Knox for the tragic murder of Meredith Kircher and the relentless media storm that followed. The twisted tale of Amanda Knox is now streaming only on Disney Plus.

Okay, it's official. We are very much in the final sprint to election day. And face it, between debates, polling releases, even court appearances. It can feel exhausting, even impossible to keep up with. I'm Brad Nilke. I'm the host of Start Here, the Daily Podcast from ABC News. And every morning, my team and I get you caught up on the day's news in a quick, straightforward way that's easy to understand, with just enough context so you can listen, get it, and go on with your day. So, kickstart your morning. Start Smart with Start Here and ABC News because staying informed shouldn't feel overwhelming. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now. I'm Josh Horowitz, and today on Happy, Say I Confused,

it is a special Telleride Film Festival edition of the podcast with Michael Shannon, with John David Washington, and Danielle Desmond. That's right, guys. I am just back from the Tell You Ride Film Festival. Truly my favorite festival of the year. What a privilege to be there every year. The best movies on earth, the best people. And we got a chance to sneak in some cool conversations. So coming up on this episode, later on, you're going to hear and see me, depending on how you're watching or listening, talk to Daniel Deadweiler, who very well could be an awards contender. Mark my words,

for a performance in the piano lesson alongside John David Washington, good dude, so happy for him. He has an amazing performance in this one, the piano lesson, which I was privileged to see on Broadway, where he starred in it as well. And this is the adaptation of the beloved August Wilson play, brought to life on the big screen directed by his brother Malcolm Washington, a true family affair. So that is coming up a little bit later. We shot a brief conversation outside in Telluride, and it's a great catch-up with John David and also great to meet Danielle, who's so talented. But first up will be my spirit

animal. I always talk about him. And here he is. It's Michael Shannon. It has been way too long since he's on the podcast. I know that. And don't worry, this is just an amuse boosh. We're going to do the full-on Michael Shannon experience before too long. But I wanted to catch up with him because he had a really cool film that I dug at Tell You Red called The End. This is a film, as the title suggest about the end of the world. It's actually about the after the end of the world in a way. It's about a family in a bunker led by Michael Shannon and Tilda Swinton. George McKay is their son. Moses Ingram kind of is the interloper into this family unit. And it is a musical. Yes, you heard me right. A musical about the end of the world. It is directed by Josh

Oppenheimer, who's a very talented filmmaker. If you haven't seen his documentaries, put those on your list as well. And I found it really compelling. fascinating movie. You will see nothing like it. It does not have a release date yet, so this is a bit of a tease, but Hopefully, neon will be releasing it before too long. It's a really really cool piece of work. So Generally speaking, I did also want to give you guys an update on tell your ride like what I saw because I saw so many great things So many great things. Enora is the movie everybody's talking about unjustifiably, so I actually got a chance to see it before I got to tell your ride. This was the Palm Door winner at Cannes.

put this on the list. This is just a huge crowd pleaser from Sean Baker. It's on Florida Project and Tangerine, but this is arguably most accessible film. It features a star-making performance from Mikey Madison. Everybody loves this movie. It's just, you can't quarrel with it. It works, and it is kind of,

the shorthand is almost like a more adult-themed pretty woman story about a stripper who, connects with a young oligarch, or son of an oligarch, and kind of a wild adventure ensues. It's fantastic. Other standouts for me included Conclave, which you may have seen the trailer for, which is coming I think in October, November. It's from Focus, amazing ensemble led by Ray Fines, Stanley Tucci, John Lithgow, and it is about intrigue in the Vatican as they're trying to select a new pope, and it just works.

It is from Ed Berger who directed All Quiet on the Western Front. It is very entertaining. It is more fun than I was expecting, and I think it will play very well to a wide audience. Saturday Night was a big crowd pleaser. Put that on your list. That is from Jason Reitman about the first night of Saturday Night Live, and that played huge. It played appropriately enough on Saturday night. On the dock side, I got a chance to see piece by piece, which is the Wild Morgan Neville biopic.

doc about Farrell Williams done with Lego. You heard me right. Put that on the list. Separated, which does not have a release date yet, but hopefully will soon. From my old buddy Jacob Soberoff, if those of you that watch NBC News or MSNBC know Jacob, he's fantastic of what he does and he wrote a book as he found himself kind of like obsessed and immersed in the horrible crisis at the border where children were literally put in cages. You may remember that story. Unbelievable, hard to fathom. And it is directed by probably my favorite all-time documentary filmmaker, Errol Morris. Jacob, I've known for a thousand years because Jacob used to do basically what I did covering movies. So it is so exciting to see him now on this other side

of things at a film festival. I got a chance to see him briefly, and it just made me so happy. And also, this movie will blow you away. It's fantastic. So many good movies. And I didn't even get a chance to see so much I wanted to see Amelia Perez. Everybody's talking about Maria with Angelina Jolie. Yeah, a lot of good stuff. Hopefully I'll catch up on everything very soon in Toronto and fill you guys in on what's cooking this fall

because it's, as always, going to be a packed season. Oh, I should mention I got a chance to see Sersha Rohn in there briefly, catch up with her. We didn't tape anything, but hopefully she will be on the podcast very soon for her movie, The Outrun, in which she's amazing as always so wanted to give you guys the lowdown on what it's like to be at Telly

Ride hopefully you don't hate me for seeing all these good movies but I'm just trying to be your vessel just tell you what it's like and I'll do the same at the Toronto International Film Festival where I'll be seeing a lot but also be talking to some of the happy, say, confused regulars that you know and love so

as I said coming up a little bit later in the show enjoy John David Washington and Daniel Deadweiler on the piano lesson put that on your list November 8th on Netflix, actually out in theaters, and then November 22nd, I believe it will be on Netflix. But first up, please enjoy my conversation with the one and only Mr. Michael Shannon, Star of the End. Enjoy. Michael, welcome to my palatial tell you right estate.

Wait, no, it's yours, actually. What's that thing? What's what thing? Oh, they can't see that, so it could be anything as far as the audience is concerned. All right. It's good to see you, Mike. Nice to see you. We've never done tell you right together.

This is a first. We're breaking new ground. It's a very sleek jacket. Thank you. You're looking, what's what, I don't know what adjective to describe you. You're looking here. You're looking alive and present. Did you sense my presence in the audience yesterday?

Did you feel the Horowitz vibes? No. Oh, wow. No, I'm sorry. No, it's okay. It's okay. We're here to talk about the end, which is appropriate. Because I feel like at the end of every conversation we have, you say something to the effect of that's it.

This is the last time. Yeah. How are you feeling about your insane Josh Oppenheimer epic, apocalyptic musical? Well, I'm pretty fond of it. It's a good one. It's a big swing. Well, I think it's, I think everybody should watch it. I agree.

I agree. So, okay, this, for the uninitiated, and most people don't know what the hell we're talking about yet, but we're going to give them a little sense. Josh Oppenheimer, who thus far is best known for his documentary work, his first narrative, and this is a musical. This is set in a bunker of sorts, an apocalyptic landscape. Something really bad has happened to the world. And you're the patriarch of a pretty delusional dysfunctional family. Elevator pitch? I don't know.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot. of delusional dysfunctional families right now yes yes what um so in the list of of things that i mentioned of the of the of the musical aspect of the dealing with kind of the end of days aspect of josh oppenheimer as a talent which of those piqued your interest oh i i love josh's work uh the act of killing and the look of silence uh are astonishing movies and uh yeah i i was drawn to the the subject matter and the story um i mean i've i've always been drawn to that ever since take shelter you know i was going to

say it does feel like there's a bit of symmetry there doesn't it yeah i mean i i happen to be somebody who thinks there's something uh deeply wrong and troubling going to going on in the world. So why not make movies about it? Right, right. Yeah, I mean, are you somebody that, as always, or at least in our recent dark days, thought about the end in every manifestation, existentially, literally, what the end might be? Well, I mean, we're seeing more and more evidence of it every day, you know. It's highly likely, yeah, that something is going to happen that makes it hard for us to stick around. Yeah.

So when you're in the throes of something like this, that's all consuming them. This is all you're thinking about, essentially. I mean, are you thinking about, I mean, the subject is the subject. I mean, like, you're shooting this, that is the subject at hand. So is it even more on your mind part of the discussion between you, Tilda, and Josh, that every day well i just know that you know josh's inspiration for writing this script was that when he was working on the act killing in the look of silence he met a very wealthy man in that part of the world who was building a bunker right for his family i mean it was

uh and josh describes it as this film the end as being the uh third panel in the triptych of these films. It's not separate for him from his documentaries. It's kind of a completion of a through line of sorts. I see that now that you're saying it. So the guy you're playing here, I don't know. He's a loving father, but he's also, you know, without ruining anything, someone that's at least indirectly or perhaps directly responsible for the end.

he is the kind of person safe to say that in real life you abhor I would imagine so do you have empathy having played this guy at all for someone like him for this particular character yeah I have empathy I mean I was talking to my stepmother the other day about the upcoming election and there's a lot of people in her family that will probably vote for Trump and she was saying well but Michael they're good people and i'm like oh yeah i know them i they are good people you're right they're they're kind people um they're thoughtful people uh i don't dislike them in any way shape or form but uh this collective of good people is somehow managing to drive civilization off a cliff so right um i don't doubt that the character i play has positive attributes or a heart or love for his family i don't doubt any of that um but it's it's very mysterious what's happening like um and he he he comes to a reckoning uh in the in the bunker uh i i hope that's obvious or yeah clear to people when they watch the move

but I don't I don't think of him as a villain necessarily it's interesting because he I mean we all have degrees of self-denial just to get through life right we if we thought 24-7 about the potential calamity of mankind we wouldn't be able to get out of bed so but it does feel like there is some some kind of it's invoked to kind of really set aside anything unpleasant just to like take care of you and yours. There's a bit of selfishness in the air of the last couple decades, which makes it hard to have optimism.

Yeah, but I think one of the reasons to have optimism, perhaps, is that there are people like Josh making this kind of work to help us confront or not run away from you know the situation yeah i mean i think the film could be a catalyst for something that might be a grandiose assertion um but when i by and large when i pick projects nowadays i'm thinking about that yeah if the project could

move the needle slightly at all yeah inspire people to consider certain things or change or you know but what I appreciate you about the film is that it's it's

it's not didactic and it's also a musical and it has beautiful music in it it's beautiful music yeah it's old school kind of like MGM era like classic musical throughout and it's a real treat to see you saying i mean for those that know your work they know that there's another part of your life that is music is a huge part of

your life yeah um what's it like to be on a set like this and just like you're in kind of a classic you're you know you're in the bunker talking about the apocalypse at one point and then suddenly you are in a kind of a classic mGM musical yeah well you know josh the director made a interesting point at the q and a the other day The moderator was talking about how this was reminiscent of the golden age of Hollywood musicals. And Josh said, well, even at that time when they were making those musicals, it was in the context of a tremendous upheaval and a very dangerous new era we were entering into with the admin of the atomic bomb.

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Wait, what about Lyon? Choose from our world of destinations if you can. Air Canada. Nice travels. There was a lot of unrest in the world. And the backdrop of sound of music is in all. yeah exactly yeah so um but music is um music is one of the more affirming things i think that humanity has come up with you know if you think about should you know human beings really be here um i think

music is a strong argument in favor of human beings right in the smaller pro column that is a good one Yeah. Guys, I'm so excited to talk about Green Chef, our sponsor on Happy Say I Confused this week, primarily because we just had an amazing meal thanks to Green Chef. We made delicious cassidias that were easy, that were delicious and we're actually healthy, no guilt whatsoever. Don't let the back-to-school season set back your nutrition. Green Chef is making it easy to stick to your healthy,

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Have you been up for movie musicals before? I mean, obviously George and Tammy you sang, but you haven't done kind of, like where was your cats, man? What's going on? Do you have an appetite for that kind of thing? Have you gone up for that kind of thing? Well, I've never met with like Rob Marshall or anything. No, I, but I mean, I mean, to be fair it's it's a very small percentage of what gets made it's true it's not um as common as it once was although it feels like there's a resurgence or um it feels like la land helped it a little bit yeah la la land was uh some wind in the sails as it were but you know also you know chicago moulon rouge right um but i you know i i i love music i've i've been involved with music longer than i've

been involved with acting actually so uh music is so important to me um but no it wasn't anything i had been approached about yeah do you have a favorite of the last like 20 years of the musicals we mentioned or not that you connected with are you a mama me a guy are you a no i'm not You're a mom to be a two guy. I mean, I don't want to disparage you. No, I'm not, I don't want to disparage anything. You're never negative about anything. We know that about you.

You know, a musical I, frankly, frankly found quite fascinating was Annette. Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was just a couple years back. Yeah, I can't necessarily say, like, I enjoyed every minute of it, but it was certainly provocative and challenging. Yeah, I think the notion that a musical just needs to be the structure or genre of musicals needs to be reserved for, you know, sort of vapid entertainment is unfortunate.

Yeah. I mean, if you go back to opera, people were willing to get into some pretty dark areas in the opera world. What's the, I feel like you're always working, but what's the last concert you went to? It's the last. Oh, boy. Can't count your own gigs.

Well, I've been in Budapest for like a long. long time. Oh, the last concert I went to I was in Chicago and I saw guided by voices. Okay.

And I actually got to meet Bob Pollard afterwards. The frontman. I would imagine your kids would be Swifties by now. Like they're in the Target demo. Have they roped that

into becoming a Taylor Swift fan? Well, I mean, that cat's out of the box. I said on one of them talk shows that uh yeah they went to the swift show in uh chicago yeah uh i'm very happy that they love taylor swift if it makes them happy i'm happy yeah um but the music doesn't doesn't move me personally did you have a brat summer i i don't know what that means i know it's the charlie

person but i i don't know what that means i i don't i literally don't know what the term bratt means it's it's a step in the right direction that you acknowledge that it's something not to that you don't know about you could well yeah i mean it Kamala harris it's all over the place right right right okay you're plugged in don't pretend like you're a what i you're you're connected well i mean we're bombarded by everything right right right so has budapest been just for fun that's where you were you holiday now or you're working yeah i went there to get away from it all no i went to work I did a movie there

called Nurenberg Oh that sounds fun Yeah it was lovely And then It actually It actually was Yeah Interesting

Yeah that's got a good cat Russell Crow Russell Crow's in there He's playing Herman Garing And then Romney Malik's in there Oh nice Playing a psychiatrist Okay

It's based on a book called The Nazi and the psychiatrist. It's a fascinating book. Yeah. And, yeah, I play Robert Jackson, the guy who basically made the Nuremberg trials happen. Got it. Yeah. He was a Supreme Court justice, and he was a prosecutor. Oh, I'm so sorry. That's that, that's, that's, that's, where were you, brother?

No comment. Yeah. There we go. We got there. You're warmed up now. Hey, happy birthday belatedly Although I should say I said text to you, never responded You did text me Oh wow, you remember, see you just fucked up big time So you acknowledge you saw it Well, it was my 50th birthday, Josh I'm going to ask you a question

Oh no It's like a pop quiz How many people do you think texted me On my 50th fucking birthday Take a wild guess Like six? So you just said I just say, heart emoji it.

You just say you acknowledge it. I don't need like a fucking dialogue, but I don't know why I invest in this relationship at this point. How old was I when we met? You were 12. Remember, I visited your grade school and I said, this kid's going far. Do you think, am I, how old do you think I am? You don't even care. You don't even, you see me as just a vessel to get you your damn Oscar one day.

I'm just here to just promote you. 60? No, I'm 48. 48, yeah. I look forward to the birthday text from you one day that I won't acknowledge. When's your birthday? April 1st. Appropriate.

So what's the next phase? Big birthday, you just celebrated. What's our next, like, phase of Michael Shannon's life and career? What are we looking forward to? Retirement. No. Don't do that to us. Retirement.

What are you talking about? You're not serious. You would never. You're going to be one of those that acts until Richard Harris. Yeah. Peter O'Toole. Exactly. I just collapse.

Hopefully during one of our conversations. We'll both collapse into each other's arms. That's going to be... You have to keep doing this for a while. But you were talking before about sort of like your standards right now for what you're looking for. So that's changed a little bit in recent years, and that's based on kind of just like where you are in life, where the world's at. and there's always a shifting

landscape of criteria you know depends on you know but I've been fortunate actually that I've been able to survive but I don't have to do stuff that I think is silly like I am somehow able to pay the bills

and tell stories I think are meaningful It feels like, speaking of age, like you got in at the right time, just under the wire where people, because you, like, got that body of work under your belt where you now have the cred and all the directors want to work with you, and you don't have to do the franchise stuff anymore. I mean, yeah, I mean, that doesn't really come my way much anyway, but I'm doing something right now. I'm very excited about something for Netflix called Death by Life. I'm playing President James Garfield, who was a magnificent human being, and it's a real shame that he wasn't able. They call him the best president that America never had because he got assassinated shortly after he was in office. But it's an amazing cast and directed by Matt Rock. who did gaslit yeah we're having a ball

so there's nothing I need to manifest for you at this point you're good the offers are coming in you're happy with where you're at I don't need to start the campaign for you to be the next Batman are they doing it I mean there's always going there's always six Batman going well Pattinson isn't he the Batman's Batman

but that's the Batman he's the Batman literally it's in the title yeah yeah I've never done one of those. Did you ever watch the Flash? Did you just do your work and get out of there, or did you watch the movie? No, I was at Premier. You went to the Premier. You supported. Yeah, yeah. Filmmaker's a lovely guy. Yeah, I do like him, Andy. I don't know what he's doing nowadays. When your investors, customers, and workers demand more from your business, make it happen with SAP. The AI-powered

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Starting at 17 grams per medium latte, Tim's new protein lattes, protein without all the work, at participating restaurants in Canada. I was thinking in the movie not to reveal anything, but your character's son in the movie is writing basically the memoir of his father. If you want me, I could be your ghostwriter. In the flesh?

Not the flesh. I went back to this movie. Oh, okay. Yeah, I'm sorry. Got to keep up. I can write your memoir, and we can correct like all, you know, we can kind of whitewash

a little bit of the horrible stuff you've done. Okay. Yeah. And we can call it, release the world engine, the Michael Shannon story. You just can't get enough of that kidding. I'm going to show you my tattoo right after we get off camera.

There's a new Superman. There is. You excited? Well, I love Nick Holt. Yes. We love us. Some Nick Holt. But it's like the fourth legged Luthor at least.

But he'll be great. Nick's amazing. He's also in that Nospheratu movie, which I'm very excited. about Robert Eggers I don't know if you're a fan yeah yeah yeah he talked to me about that once a long time ago really about because I pissed him off no he's been trying to make that forever you're a busy guy you were probably like in Budapest somewhere yeah yeah but uh yeah I love Nick he's a good guy he's a real sweet guy well this isn't the full podcast this is kind of like a moose because we're in tell you ride and both of our brains are too fried to have an extensive

conversation but it's been way too long since we've had the full on your fans always chase me for the big conversation because yeah it's no truly seriously like they rely on me as the vessel to michael shannon to bring them more shannon into the universe so we'll catch up at a later date um thankfully you're always working so there's always stuff to talk about you said it not me and eric loroo we're going to get that damn movie out at some point the movie you directed yeah it looks like uh the spring maybe good okay maybe that's the occasion for the long chat oh yeah yeah i'll need uh yeah that would be nice yeah that would be lovely all right we'll do it then uh it's good who else you're talking to today the only other ones tell you're right i talk to john

david washington and daniel dedweiler for their movie the piano lesson yeah which is really well done yeah they're both excellent in it but tell you right i'm just seeing movies and just doing a couple of these i made time because you were a priority see me Yeah. Thank you. It's good to see you, Josh. Nice to see you, too. All right.

We did it. We did it. Thank you, ma'am. Okay, it's official. We are very much in the final sprint to election day. And face it, between debates, polling releases, even court appearances. It can feel exhausting, even impossible to keep up with. I'm Brad Milkey.

I'm the host of. Start Here, the daily podcast from ABC News, and every morning my team and I get you caught up on the day's news in a quick, straightforward way that's easy to understand with just enough context so you can listen, get it, and go on with your day. So, kickstart your morning. Start Smart with Start Here and ABC News, because staying informed shouldn't feel overwhelming. because we're in Telly Ride. Danielle, it's a pleasure to meet you. Thank you. I'm a big fan of your work. John David, it's good to see you, buddy.

See you too. We're here for a very important, good occasion. I was privileged to be in the audience for the premiere of The Piano Lesson. How are you guys feeling? This is a big moment for a very important movie for many reasons. I feel good.

I feel good. I felt good when we first got it started. If you're being led by Malcolm, you're fine. Yeah. Do you have anxiety going into something like this, David, or is it more excitement of finally getting to share with the world what you guys have been working on for years? Well, yeah, that excitement is, I guess it trumps the anxiety of what you're saying, though,

like working on it for so long. But I guess less anxiety than ever before because of who I'm with, you know, who made it, who our leader is, and, you know, who the crew is, who the cast is. I feel a great deal of ease because of that, how we made it and what we did. Yeah. The pedigree is obviously exceptional. For those who don't know, this is part of August Wilson's amazing body of work. I got a chance to see this on stage when John David was on Broadway, and many of the actors returned for this. And it's stellar performance after stellar performance. But talk to me a little bit about, I guess, first, August Wilson's place in your own path as an actor, as a lover of the arts, was were you raised on August Wilson's work? Or when did you come to?

Totally raised. I'm from Atlanta. So Kenny Leon's True Colors Theater Company, rather, is based in Atlanta. They've done August Wilson's plays numerous times. I remember being a kid seeing stuff at the Alliance Theater. And so the century cycle is just a part of my personal, artistic, creative rearing. I know so many people have done all of the works. I remember the last time I saw in August Wilson piece in Atlanta was Jim of the Ocean. The dear friend Tonya Jackson was in, and it was just like Black Mary.

her was just crazy. And so it's just a part of our lives. It's our canon in the same way that Shakespeare is very much everyone's canon. This is August is that, too, like as real as can be. And you want to honor it. You want to honor it because of the way that it's carried? What did I say? I saw seven guitars as a kid in New York on Broadway.

Crazy, crazy, crazy. Heavy hitters in that, too, at that time. I can't remember. Too many drugs. But, alas, but it was, it was, I'm probably Ruben Santiago, right? And he's like, you know, just quintessential August thinker, creative. And so those are the people who have defined my understanding of August's work, who have defined my understanding of black life in a certain kind of way,

as presented on stage. And you carry that into doing this work with these beautiful people. You're good. This is a Washington family enterprise. and I'm guessing that August Wilson's work is important because, I mean, your dad has talked about wanting to produce the cycle, the 10 to 10 plays, this is the third film. Was it a game changer to finally, like, do the work on Broadway?

Did that change you as an actor, and has this further changed you, you think? Absolutely. Yeah, I wanted to do it on stage, you know, more than I wanted to do it on film, or at least I wanted to do that first. I felt like it's funny, you're talking about this shit, you know, Shakespearean comparison, I couldn't agree more. Like, it's our, you know, coming of age. It's our language, and he's been able to draw such raw and real emotions

and the African-American experience in such a poetic way, you know, that it's like a rites of passage for any actor to be able to speak his words. And so, I mean so much to me, even selfishly, just chasing the kind of actor, the kind of performer I want to be. I needed to, it's like I got to do taming of the shoe, and I got to do. do you know and August wills in peace you know and I'm like okay I have the confidence to to take on whatever I need to whatever I want to so I alluded to this I mean your brother's directing it he did an exceptional job Malcolm you know dad is a

producer on this your sister is a producer I believe another sister's in the film mom's in the film I mean Washington's throughout what does that add to this whole experience I mean this is obviously a personal project for the whole family I would imagine well I mean I mean, the atmosphere was familial. You know, like, she's family. Like, everybody, like, that's part of the, right. Hey, I'm about to get a tad.

And you say the Washington's, but the Jackson's as well. I mean, Sam Jackson originated the role, you know, and I'm seeing him every night on stage, like, oh, my God, like, you did this first, you know what I mean? And Latania Jackson directed the play. So it's a familial sense. It feels, I guess that's why I told your question earlier, I feel so confident and less anxious about presenting it

because of those factors. So it's, you know, it's a privilege. I'm very lucky. I mean, it's appropriate given the subject matter of this play essentially because it is about legacy, it is about family, it is about how we look at the past, how we move on or don't move on or honor the past. Can you talk a little bit about this specific play

and why this one resonates with you? Oh, dear. Big question. I mean, it's critical. Everybody's in a moment of family connectivity. How are we connecting? How are we dismantling? The pandemic was so just horrific for all of us.

And I think we're in a moment where we're all trying to reconnect with each other. And so when you talk about piano lesson, you're talking about a trauma that has occurred that has not been addressed and how do we even begin to come back and confront it. You can't wipe things away. You can't act as if they don't exist. And so confrontation is pivotal. for any kind of healing. And I think we are all globally in that kind of space.

How do we even begin to talk about the thing that has happened that has wrecked and ruptured every quality of our being? And I'm always trying to, you know, I'm always trying to like move through that kind of feeling, that kind of boiling of the blood, that movement of my spirit. And, you know, yeah. And it is one of those works.

It's the reason why people keep coming. back to August Wilson's work is, you know, like Shakespeare, you come back and you approach it in a different way, you ask different questions, the same questions, get different answers. I mean, I would imagine this experience for you, again, you get a lot out of the Broadway experience, but did this open up new questions and answers for you as you shot this on film? I mean, it's an excellent point you bring up about like how it's reimagined. We always come back to these works, and what was so exciting for me, being a part of the the cinematic version was the new lens.

It's being told through, which is Malcolm's, which was being a part of the nexus of the old generation, the Wilsonians, the originators like Sam and company, and seeing what the new folks have to say about our history, because it is our history and we know all about it, but saying it in a different way, the perspective of it changing, you know?

Maybe not the antiquated issues changing necessarily, but the opinion and the perspective of those issues are expressed in a new way and a new idea. And using these being us, the actors, the instruments, to tell that I think was the most intriguing part about the approach to the film. I think it's also exciting. I mean, I think people can tell from the trailer,

maybe you have some preconceived notions if you don't know this work, that it's gonna feel stagey, it's gonna feel whatever it is, but like, to use the cliche, it feels cinematic. This feels, in many ways, there are genre elements to this that I think will play to hopefully even a wider audience than is predisposed to go see theater. Is that part of the dream and the hope to expose this,

I would imagine, to a larger audience? Oh, that's Malcolm doing a psych your mind on everybody, right? Like, no, this is not just a play. This is, psyched mind. Yo, booty shine. Yeah, yeah, you're welcome. No, I mean, that's, it is a haunting place, right? It is about a haunting.

And when you don't address the haunting, that impacts us all. And so he brought in all of these other aspects of the genre to give people a different end. Because I saw, you know, or people told me that folks are like, what is this? It's just a thriller? Is it a horror? Is it a drama? Period. Like, that's fun.

You don't get to peg it down. because it is that complex and that's exciting for people you know it brings more people in who may not engage with the stage as often and and that's that's beautiful everybody needs an end and then that will perhaps encourage them to see the play you know or and vice first and there's the reality too of you know we were kind of alluding to what we were talking before like more people will see this than saw the play saw any play a version of this and august wilson has said that that they were doing the television film, you know, Alphi Woodard, Charles Dudden and company. And there's an interview you can see online that it's so interesting seeing that, but like today, you know,

in today's era, like how August Wilson was excited to know that more people are going to have access to this work. So it's the very thing we're doing right now. What's it like to be on set with this company of actors? Because literally, like, I could talk to

any of this ensemble and gush, because everybody truly delivers. You don't want to get, caught watching, but you get catch yourself watching Sam Jackson, Ray Fisher, everybody and say these guys have the goods. This is amazing. You can go. Oh, yeah? Yeah. I was definitely caught watching this one right here. You know what I'm like? Oh, you know,

we're acting, right? She's living in a reality that I'm like, we didn't discuss this in the rehearsal. You know, wait, you've alternated the reality. You invited it. You invited it. You invited it. It was a jam session, and Michael Potts, I mean, and just, Ray, you know, Corey coming off, you know, his performance, too, on stage. Just like, everybody was on fire and wanted to be there because of this new perspective from Malcolm Hayes, Washington. So everybody's bringing that A game. Why do you say that man, a whole name?

Oh, my bad. I'm sorry. But it brings that out of you. You know what I'm saying? I'm not telling you. You're my middle name. Anyway, I mean, it's delightful to be on a set that is so. loving. You want to be

there. So much so that you come on days where you are not working. Because you want to see Erica Badu do her thing. You want to see the guys, you know, playing, yes, I watched. I watched you. Saw her in the corner watching you. Supporting.

I was going to say. Judging or encouraging? Sending loving energy. And bringing you cake. I can't believe. Oh, that's true. I love his man. I get, I was sending him all the beauty and joy. No, it's really love. It's really fantastic to be on this kind of set.

You can tell, you can feel it in the finished product. I want to end by talking a little bit about just the experience that we are among the privileged for you that get to be at a film festival like this. And Telluride in particular is a really special one. What's it like from your vantage point coming into something like this? A very unique experience for anybody, let alone an actor in a film like this. This is my first experience at Tell Your Ride and I'm shocked and I'm in love with it. It's so calm and intimate and

casual people just really want to go look at film and that's what I want to do too I know you know and people want to talk about film in a in a richer way a deeper way and you happen to be hypnotized by these glorious mountains and

the streams and the altitude careful the bears I saw bear here on campus I saw a stream very nearby here I saw a couple years ago the trash can I just learned that are the black bears

and they knock them over looking for food. I don't want to cast a pall over this, but you know, you gotta be careful in nature. They look for popcorn because they want to watch a movie too. Yeah, they're fans of August Wilson. They want to watch a movie too. Oh yeah, all right, they can pull up. They can pull up.

But yeah, it's delightful to be, it's like, it's less pomp and circumstance, less, you know, to do and more, let's talk about the film. Yeah, yeah, totally. What's it like for you, John David? I mean, yeah, it's, it's, I agree with everything she said. I mean, there's just such a comfort and relaxed environment that's set here, I guess, due to where we are in the elevation as well. But whether it be, you know, Pablo Lorraine or, you know, Will Ferrell, they're like chill and talking about stuff, like, whether it's, you know, films and experiences and some of the insecurities and some of like, I'm like, oh, my goodness.

But, like, willing to give that information in a, in a cipher that's just organic, not like, you know what I mean? That's not like cameras here. We're doing it. Right, it feels more organic in that way. I know you got a chance to see Nickel Boys, so you're trying to sneak in some movies while you're here? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Heavy, that was a heavy one.

My goodness. Experimentation. Amazing. Well, that's a thing, honestly, not to gush too much about this festival, but, like, their standards are so high. Like, if you make it into this festival, chances are it's a special place to work. That's what I've been told. What's coming up next for you guys?

A couple of films coming. Talk about. Little actioner. A little something, something. Something else, horror. Yes, I made those words. Oh, horror. That's the new genre?

That's the new genre? Okay. She can do it all. That's what you're saying. Dibble dabble. What are you dibble dabbling next, John David? I don't see anything coming up. Something's cooking.

Something's happening. Keep it quiet. I got the, I got the, it turned on. Okay, that's always a good sign. It's going to be something. It's worth talking about when the mic goes out and seriously. I said it. We need a cruel.

Come check this technology. It's a pleasure to meet you, Daniel. Always been a fan. You totally kill it in this movie. Amazing. I know we're going to be talking about this one for months and months in the best possible way. And John David, I mean, another achievement unleashed. I mean, again, when I saw you on Broadway in this,

unbelievable, and again, to see it on the big screen, I'm so excited the world gets to experience now. Thank you, Josh. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from The League, Veep, or my non-A.? eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We love movies, and we come at them from different perspectives. Yeah, like Amy thinks that, you know, Joe Pesci was miscast in Goodfellas, and I don't. He's too old. Let's not forget that Paul thinks that Dude, too, is overrated.

It is. Anyway, despite this, we come together to host Unspool, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, must-season, and Casey Mistoms. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Darkness. we've done deep dives on popcorn flicks we've talked about why independence day deserves a second look and we've talked about horror movies some that you've never even heard of like ganja and Hess so if you love movies like we do come along on our cinematic adventure listen to unspooled wherever you get your podcast and don't forget to hit the follow button