Happy Sad Confused - Terry Gilliam, Vol. II

Episode Date: April 16, 2019

After years and years of false starts and absurdly bad luck, Terry Gilliam's "The Man Who Killed Don Quixote" is here at last and the great filmmaker himself returns to "Happy Sad Confused" to talk all about it and his storied career.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Welcome back to my podcast. And today's guest, a returning champion five years later, Terry Gilliam has re-entered the happy, sad, confused vortex. I can't believe it's been five years. It's crazy, but I'm thrilled to have the great visionary filmmaker. Yes, visionary. I feel like I see that in every trailer

for every director right now, but I'm going to give Terry that one. He deserves the visionary moniker. I've said this before when he was on the show years ago. Terry Gilliam was a big part of my kind of awakening as a film fan growing up. One of my first memories of going to see a movie in a theater was seeing Time Bandits, which kind of blew my brain out the backside of my head.

And then ever since then, so many of his works have meant a lot to me, whether it's the Fisher King, Baron Munchausen, 12 Monkeys, so many influential pieces of work. And Brazil, my God, Brazil. And this one, the man who killed Don Quixote, is a fascinating, project for a number of reasons. First of all, it should be said that the finished product is a quality of piece of work. And I know Terry's had his ups and downs in recent years. Some of his films maybe haven't been to everybody's liking. I think Man Who Kiotes is one of his better ones in recent years. This one, of course, stars Adam Driver and Jonathan Price, and it is going to

begin. It kind of had an unusual kind of release strategy. It had like a one-night-only fathom event thing on April 10th, but thankfully, on Friday, April 19th, it's going to be out in a bunch of markets around the country, and it's also going to be available on VOD. So you'll have ample opportunity to check out the man who killed Don Quixote. And for those that have followed Terry Gilliam's career, you know how exciting that is, because this film just didn't want to be made. It had so many false starts. Every kind of calamity hit this film over decades. This has been decades in the making. There's a great documentary actually about the ill-fated making of an earlier incarnation of this around 2000 called Lost in La Mancha. That's the name of the doc. You can watch

it online and it's free and I highly recommend that you check it out. Lost in LaMancho Chronicles a film that was to star Johnny Depp and an actor by the name of John Rochefort, who sadly is in the year since passed away. I mean, in fact, two different actors who were supposed to play Don Quixote have passed away in the last couple decades since this film was in the brain of Terry. But it finally happened after a lot of false starts, Terry got it across the finish line and major props to him for accomplishing that. He is such a delight to talk to. This guy doesn't give a crap. He will say whatever is on his mind about the current state of filmmaking and superhero movies, I will say, I expected him to

crap, I was going to say shit, I just said it anyway, doesn't really matter, to shit on every superhero movie known to man, because he has before. He actually name-checked a recent one that he really dug, and it kind of shocked me, so stay tuned for that. But a lot of great stories from Terry in this, casting what-ifs of his past work, his flirtation with making a watchman movie, which I will always wonder what that would have been like. Oh, my God. a Terry Gilliam Watchman movie, could you imagine, all the way up to the production and completion of the man who killed Don Quixote. So this is a conversation I was very excited to have, and I hope you guys enjoy it as much as I did. Elsewhere in the Josh Harrowitz universe,

what else to say? Well, we recently debuted a new after-hours that I'm very proud of, two new after-hours, actually. If you haven't checked out, we did one with David Harbour. We released it on the eve of the release of Hellboy. That's on as all. after hours are on Comedy Central's Facebook page, or you can go to Comedy Central's YouTube page. There's an after hours playlist. You can watch all our crazy bits of madness there. The David Harbor one was a delight to film. He is the best. Just delicious. You'll love it. And then we did a Game of Thrones themed episode with the one and only Paul Scheer. That was fantastic. And I think I've gotten a lot of good feedback on that one because I think it touches

a nerve in terms of what a lot of people were feeling going into this season of Game of Thrones. So go check those out. In addition, I just got back from Chicago where it was Star Wars Celebration, which if you don't know, it was basically Comic-Con that is just all Star Wars all the time. It's my second time covering Star Wars celebration. It is a fantastic event. There's so much positivity in the air. I live and breathe Star Wars ever since I was a kid. I've just been obsessed with it. So to be able to be at these panels and then to interview the cast of the new films, it's really one of the highlights for me and my job. We've begun rolling out those interviews. I interviewed all of the folks. Everyone from Daisy Ridley and John Boyega and

J.J. Abrams and Oscar Isaac. Billy D. Williams. So we're rolling out all of those interviews right now. I know we just released the Daisy Ridley one, which is really fun. They're all, honestly, pretty great. They were all in great moods, and I'm very excited for you guys to check them out. If you're a Star Wars fan, if you like those actors, you'll really dig these. So check out my social media feeds, yada, yada, yada,

Joshua Harowitz on Twitter and Instagram. I'm posting them all there. Or you can go to MTV News's social feeds, and you'll find them there as well. So that's what's going on in my universe. A lot more coming up, but we'll talk about that at a later date. In the meantime, remember to review. you rate and subscribe to happy say confused spread the good word and in the meantime enjoy this chat

with terry gilin you've had a second to at least hopefully acclimate slightly or no no it's better not to go back to london in a couple of days so just i just wake up i wake up at ridiculous times at night here it makes me crazy well we're taping this at 3 a.m i don't know if you No, that's, okay, perfect. The fluorescent light confuses people, but it's... My circadian rhythms are fucked up. Excellent. Now, can I say fuck on this time?

Of course you can. That's how I like my guest to feel, totally fucked up. Because I had to do a thing on the one I just did. In fact, I could have said what I wanted to say, but I could, because I was talking about Brazil and how Sid Schoenberg, who is universal, he commandeered all the intelligent words. I was only left for the vocabulary. fuck shit, conchrist, and I couldn't say it. So hurtful.

Well, now you can get it all out of your system here. Thank you very much. This is for adults and children alike. Congratulations, sir, on what must be a surreal moment for you. It's surreal for me, just as a film fan and a fan of yours that we have gotten to this point where this film actually exists and it's great, and it doesn't feel like you're not, the best thing I can say to you is watching it, I do not feel like I see the seams. This feels like a complete great work. It doesn't, what I was, I heard from other people, it doesn't feel like an old man's film direction.

And as we know, that can happen. That can happen. So what is the general feeling on this press tour? Is it relief, excitement? What? I mean, no, it's just what I have to do. It's the job. It comes with the job of being a director.

You have to go and blow the trumpet, beat the drum, and try to bring a few people in. Strangely enough, my daughter and I were down near Times Square, just before a previous interview and a guy said, are you Terry Gileadam? I said, yes. And we started talking, are you going to come and see Kehoti?

He didn't know it was playing. That's why you're here. And that's my job. This is, ironically, by my count lucky number 13 for you in terms of feature films. Yes, I think it is. There's irony there. And for those that don't know the past,

that, again, it's not a prerequisite, it, but look, there's a great documentary made out of one of the ill-fated efforts back in around 2000 on this one. I've gone through a couple leading men, some sadly not even with us anymore. Just, I guess, talk to me, like, how much

this resembles the film that you were working on 15, 20 years ago. What's... It's changed a lot. I mean, when we were doing it with their brief five days with Johnny Depp, John Rothford, it was closer to Connecticut, Yank,

in King Arthur's court. Right. Modern guy gets bumped on the head and ends up in the 17th century trapped with Kejordy. And we've changed it along the years. Some of the changes were originally for pragmatic reasons

because their budget was shrinking as each year passed. And so let's not make it in the 17th century. Keep it contemporary. Then we don't have to worry about aerials on television and planes flying over, all that stuff. So you start from that.

And then that led us the next stage of showing the character that Adam Driver plays at Toby, which Johnny Depp was playing, we then showed what he was like 10 years earlier when he was young, ambitious, pure, in a sense, not corrupted by success. And so it kept shifting. And that's what kept it alive in a strange way.

Because if we just hung on to the original script, it would have been dead in the water. Yeah, it needs to feel contemporary of life the moment in your life. And I have to fool myself that we're doing something new and better. Right. You don't want the dusty old script. We've got to keep it fresh.

It is interesting because it does feel in some ways like a self-reflexive, not about this particular filmmaking process, but about your own life and career in that. It's about a lot of things, but it's about a filmmaker who almost feels like they have to make amends for the way they've treated others in the past.

Is that something that you've ever felt like you've had to, have you had to apologize for behavior or whatever of the young Terry Gillian? No, it's not that. It really, it can, came from the making of Montepirth and the Holy Grail because we were working up in Scotland in a little village.

And here we were all successful guys coming out from London, you know, and, you know, relationships changed, let's put it that way. Some followed us back to London afterwards thinking they would be able to get into showbiz. Other marriages fell apart. All sorts of pregnancies occurred, all of these things. And at a certain point, we're like Vikings, and one should occasionally apologize for the chaos we've created in other people. lives. Totally, totally. So I'm curious also, you mentioned the casting changes. So what,

well, first of all, let's talk about your coyote. You end up with a frequent collaborator, Mr. The Great Jonathan Price, who I know, I mean, ironically, you didn't necessarily want for this at first. You kind of had to be convinced. What was the reluctance? This is one of our greatest actors. You love him, obviously. I know. It was, it was, but it must have been, it could be 15 years, Jonathan has been banging on my door saying, when can I play Keote? And, you know, He was too young. There was, I was still probably clinging to the image of Jean Rochefort, all of those things. And it just, basically, it came to the time we were able to do the film, and Jonathan was available,

and all the other people had dropped out or died or whatever. And he explodes on the screen. He's just fantastic. It's almost impossible to imagine another version of a coyote. He's brilliant. What did you know of Adam Driver prior to the movie? Like, what was your reference point for Adam? Very little.

I'd never seen girls. I did see his first Kylo Ren. And my daughter, Amy, who's one of the producers, said, you ought to meet this guy. And I did at a London pub. He just wasn't anything like I had imagined the character that we had written was going to be. He doesn't look, right? He behaved completely different. And I thought, this is exciting.

It's a new. It's going to be a nice surprise. There's something about him that is so unactored. that is he's a genuine human being and the fact that he joined the Marines when 9-11 occurred that's heroic it's also very quixotic

it's a bizarre thing to do most kids would not do that but he did yeah I have to admit I kind of came to him reluctantly myself like I wasn't watching girls and it was sort of like he was like this kind of enigmatic beefcake kind of guy on girls and the more I saw him inside Louis and Davis and he's just

he's fascinating And in this one, what I really appreciate is I don't think I've ever seen him smile more in a film. You've found some new dimensions to Adam that haven't been explored yet, which is always exciting. But that's, I think, this part in Keoti is broader and the range is greater than anything he's ever done in a single film or TV series.

He goes from being a complete asshole at the beginning. You don't like him. Right. But as it develops, and he's dealing with his sense of guilt, getting caught up with Jonathan as Kehody. He, he, it goes from that to desperate to romantic and it becomes beautiful by the end. And it's like, same guy.

But he looks like different people in the course of the film because it's all coming from within. It's not makeup and all that. It's from within. Did it take you a while to learn sort of how to direct actors? I mean, you mentioned the first directing efforts, Holy Grail. These are your collaborators. Like, did they take direction well from you?

Python does not take direction. I was going to say, I wouldn't imagine. Especially from an American animator. And that's why I started making films on my own and why I've never done another Python film as director. But once I started on my own working with professional actors, they took direction. I asked them to lie down there in the dirt.

We'll cover you with even more dirt. And they did it. This is amazing. I knew it couldn't work this way. John Cleese never did this. And that was it. And I discovered, I didn't really, because I had no training in either actors or dealing with actors as such. And I just realized what I am is a really good audience.

And I laugh when they're funny. I cry when they're tragic. And I'm very present on the set. And so actors need something to bounce off of, something to say it's going well. And I just seem to be deemed, at least now, to be. trustworthy. When they go too far and fall in their face, the public will never see that. Well, it's funny

because you mentioned that, because in the days leading up to this, like, I'm very well versed in your work, sir. I've seen it all many times, but I did decide to go back, and actually I watched the two docks that are out there, the hamster effect, which I've seen before, which is fascinating. It's about the making of 12 monkeys, and of course Haust and La Mancha.

And among many things that struck me in watching them again is kind of what you were just saying, is like, you kind of run the gamut of emotion. Like, sense like you there are high highs you are giddy you are the biggest the best audience on a set and and we're also seeing you like despondent is that is that filmmaking for you is it sort of a roller coaster did those two docs kind of capture what you're like on set it is I mean I'm not sure if I really like making films I I do it because I'm reasonably good at it and the

the ups just lightly are more frequent than the downs but not many and and and And I just like working with other people. I like being part of a group and also being the guy who is the boss of the group. It makes it so much easier. But as ideas come out, whether it's from the designer, from it's a cameraman, from it's a sound guy, or the actors. That's what's exciting. And I'm just very transparent about how I feel. So they know he likes what I'm doing.

And that's important that they not, that everybody actually not only, knows that I like what they're doing, but that I could do what they do, but they're better than I am. And that's important, but I know what's involved when I ask somebody to do something. I know how difficult it will be

or uncomfortable or unpleasant. And so I think that's maybe my skill. I don't know. You alluded to something that I do find fascinating, which is that, like, you've become now, like, you know, you've always been this, like, a mad genius kind of character. And now you're kind of also in an elder statesman,

as a filmmaker which is kind of strange and it must be surreal for you too I mean you mentioned kind of that concern and I have it too when I watch a filmmaker that I admire for many years like will they still have it

will they still have that vitality and for every Scorsese who's still doing a Wolf of Wall Street that still feels like a 30 year old man's film there are five that feel like oh they've run out they should have tapped out at 45 or whatever how are

is that something you're keenly aware of and how do you combat something like that? Well, I mean, it's by great fear that, you know, suddenly the magic is gone. I can't do it anymore. Or my choices, my, are the wrong choices. It's just, yeah, you think about it all the time because basically, I'm just amazed I've been getting away with it

for so long. And I know I'm a fraud. And it's when people, everybody realizes I am a fraud, that's the moment I worry about. Up till then, I keep fooling people. when I spoke to you for Zero Theorem a few years back I can't remember the exact words you used but suffice to say you were not

thrilled about the state of filmmaking in 2014 I'm guessing you're not that much different today tell me where do you stand in terms of I think the problem because I'm just very selfish is what it's about and the kind of films I make are too expensive for the I mean Kehote end up was $20 million. That's the wrong number

The number is to be less than 10 or more than 100. That's the deal. And that's what I think is sad, that that middle range of films, which require a more cinematic, a bigger view of the world than just people sitting around a table talking, it's hard to make now. And I don't want to make the big Avengers and X-Men. There are other people that are much better at doing that kind of work than I am.

I'm much more hands-on guy. but my ideas are bigger than less than $10 million. And that's what frustrates me. Well, and it's very – because the main conversation for cinefiles in the last year or two is, like, you look at the Paul Greengrass, the Alfonso Coron's, where have they all gone? They've gone to Netflix, because they have the money and they have the distribution, and maybe they'll give them a week or two in a theater, and that's the bargain. That's what it is, and I'm tempted the same as everybody else,

because ultimately what we do is about storytelling. I like to have a big screen but for years I know that the majority of the people have seen my work it's on their computer or their television at home luckily TV screens are getting bigger and it's the only when I see somebody watching something of mine on an iPhone is the moment I want to get out of my axe

and chop bits off because that's ridiculous I think but I mean I just was thinking about Kehoti because last year in October the London Film Festival we sat there the big audience and it plays so wonderfully because people are not agreeing on what is funny they're not agreeing on what is the bit they're enjoying so it's a wave of emotions that are moving around the room constantly but they're always reacting to something or other somebody is and that's great

where you sit alone watching something which unfortunately is what i watch both things when it comes to the academy wards the screeners and i'm sitting at home watching and i'm very judgmental but it's not the same experience. It's the wrong relationship. I mean, in the cinema, the audience are little people. There's that great screen with a great story being told. With your iPhone, you are the giant and the story is just minuscule thing. That's a very funny way of putting it. That's totally true. You mentioned the Oscars. Are you an Academy voter? You, uh... Yes. This year was so tiresome, so boring. I really began to wonder what is going on. Meaning the films that were out there

or the awards show stuff itself? Well, the films were pretty mediocre at best. I thought it got, especially the smaller films where they need funding from a lot of different sources. They all seemed to be having to tick the number of boxes. Okay, we need a lesbian, we need somebody, we need a black person here, probably Hispanic. It's like that's how you do it.

And that's not how to tell stories. You tell stories that are true for what it is. I'm great, I'm glad that diversity exists. yes, more the merrier, frankly. But you've got to be true to the story. That's all it's about. Did anything strike your fancy? What was, did you have a favorite?

Copernium. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which was a foreign film. Which, unfortunately, BAFTA in London, which is the British Academy, Alfonso got Roma as Best Picture and Best Foreign Language Film. And that cut Copernium out of the running down there, which is wrong. Copernium, I thought, was a wonderful film. I thought there were a few others that got me excited at all.

Again, in looking back at your work and your accomplishments, it surprised me, frankly. You've only been nominated once, as you well know. And I lost. It was co-writing on Brazil. I mean, Fisher King was well, I think, got five or six nominations. Mercedes got the Oscar for Best Supporting, which was great. Of course.

Did that, I mean, you know, you're a human. being like the rest of us, no? No, because I don't respect the Oscars. Why? I mean, if the best film won all the time or the most artistic or whatever, it's not happening. I don't even know what the judgment is. How can Green Book win? Come on.

I just thought, you can't do this. There's so many other films. What? And I still understand the logic of the voting on it. I don't either, frankly. I thought I'm glad that I can't do his name. the black actor I'm glad he won

I thought it was a great performance he was the thing in the film that sparkled and was wonderful last superhero film you've seen actually the Avengers Infinity War I quite liked it This is breaking news I know because I had been watching

all these other films who were up for the Oscars and one night I was so tired of the films I'd been watching The ostensibly great films you're like you know what, I'm going to watch the popcorn movie everyone's talking about. And I enjoyed it. I thought, and it actually was saying something, you know. I mean, we should be concentrating more on our future, where we're going.

So this was one approach to deal with what is going to happen if we don't get our act together soon, folks. Fair enough. I'm curious, this is way back when. You dabbled, you thought about doing or pursued doing Watchmen way back when. Did you, did you ever crack it as a feature? I know there was talk of at that time of expanding into a TV series. Was there a feature script you liked? Yeah, we wrote one, and it wasn't good enough.

It was, again, trying to cram too much into two hours. Right. And that's, I think, at the time I said it would be better as a TV series. Because the book is very dense, and to tell all those stories, you need more time than two hours on the screen, I thought Zach Snyder's beginning was great. And then it just fell apart, but it started. I thought, wow, this is going to be wonderful. The guys got it.

Yeah. And then it went elsewhere. Did you ever get into any casting dream scenarios for your watchmen? We were just dealing with a script at that point and seeing if we go forward. Yeah, but you like, like, because, you know, as much as you are critical of comic book movies often, you grew up, you read comics. You like comics. It's not the source material. It's the interpretations you have borrowed with.

No, it's a bitter old man who would have loved to make those kinds of movies when he was younger, and nobody. gave them the opportunity. So I am bitter and old. Now I get the subtext. Let's run through if you'll indulge me a few movies that you are, you know, on the IMDB, it says that you turn down if you'll indulge me. Who frame Roger Rabbit? Yes.

That was, where was I in that one? Let's see. That was 87. So that would have been post-Brazil probably, or maybe around Brazil. Now, this is where memory is now fading. I just don't remember. I think there was a point where I was approached. At least somebody was saying somebody.

was interested to me and I wasn't interested because I was so into my own things at

that point fair enough a far scump that definitely came down and I think I said no

because why did I say no there was a reason which passes me by at the moment so I said no

let's do the Truman Show I know that one I turned that one oh really yeah I sent the script and I was so

angry that Philip K. Dick was not being in any way acknowledged as where it all came from. And I said, well, I'm not going to touch that if that's the approach. I know you were developing some stuff with Mel Gibson at one point, and Braveheart was mentioned. Well, at that point, they were trying to undo Tale of Two Cities. That's what I read that. And Mel was supposed to be playing Sidney Carton, and they came to me directing, and I thought he'd be great.

And I really, I mean, I love Dickens, and that particularly. tale I love. And so we had meetings and I was spending a time with Mel talking about it and he was beginning to get hesitant and and he said because he's got this other thing he really would like to do and he asked me if I

would direct it. This is medieval film and I said I dug medieval things a couple of times. It's boring and of course it was brave heart amazing. Yeah others are mentioned like Alien Resurrection we've talked before about Potter did any of those you desperately want to do

or things that we didn't like in that sphere that you really went after that for whatever reason No these all came to me That's what sounds like I wasn't begging to do them Forrest Camp I remember now

Because I lived through that period And I knew what it was really like I didn't buy It's good This I never heard Strange Glove That Kubrick apparently Wanted you

to tackle a sequel to Dr. Strange Glove? This is really weird. I have never heard it from first person, but I was told on good authority that, yes, he had, you know, AI, he had passed over to Spielberg. Yes. And apparently he was serious about talking to me about doing Strange Love. Amazing.

Did you know Kubrick at all? Did you ever met him? We talked on the phone. We had a few conversations. At one point, my wife and I were on holiday in Greece, We came back and there was a letter unopened that had been sitting there for a couple of weeks from Stan Lee

asking me to do the credits for clockwork orange but he needed them done by the next week we came back from when we came back that was not on after Jabberwock he called me because he wanted he was working on oh come on what's the one of Snow Jack Nichols shining

shining thank you very much and he wanted me to see if I could find an art director that would work with him in the way he wanted to work. I won't go into the details of what he was wanting. And I said, I'll try and I got in touch with a lot of people I knew. Nobody wanted to go and work with Stanley. Some had

worked with him before and said, never again. And finally, having failed, I wrote him a note and said, I really am sorry, but I really have failed. This, this. But it would be great to sit down and have lunch some time. Never heard back. Well, it's true. Did you see that

Doc, a film worker about his, like, long-time assistant slash kind of like... No, I've heard about it. I haven't seen it. But I think you would appreciate it. Just because it's like, yes, to be in Stanley's orbit, you were at the beheld for Stanley. And that's a choice. Well, he was one of my heroes.

There's no question about it. And to even just talk to him, a bit on the phone was wonderful. Can you, which of your films can you watch with, like, satisfaction and which, which do you see the seams and see the mistakes? Like, what do you take the most... I don't watch them. Yeah, I guess. That's the key. I'll tell you something, though.

two weeks ago I was in regrading fear and loathing in Las Vegas because it's going to come out in a new not a new version but just you know remastered

and re-mastered and watching it without the sound and I had to watch the whole thing going through and I thought this is brilliant this is I can't believe how good I was and how good John and Benizio were I mean it just marveled

I've got the camera there and I'm doing that Brilliant. And I thought, that was a rare occurrence. I normally don't like watching them because I see all the flaws. I really do see. If only I had done that better.

On the other hand, I see things that I can't believe I actually pulled off. I could never do that now. It's that thing of who you are at a specific moment at time, and you change. And whoever you were at the specific moment that you were able to create Brazil,

which still stands, is just like, I mean, could open today and still be considered visioner. And they would think it would be about the past Or about the, you know Because I mean, actually when I was here on promoting Tideland I was saying I was threatening to sue George W. Bush and Dick Cheney for the illegal and unauthorized remake of Brazil. Here's another factoid according to the internet.

You were considering Tom Cruise for the lead role in Brazil? There was a point. I was out in Hollywood looking for actors. And I was mainly concentrated. on actresses and they were all coming forward because I was I think a list at that point

for a brief moment and they and I was getting them all and then my casting director said you gotta come to this editor room and see this and it was a clip

from Tom's first movie the one that was it Oh a risky business or Risky business the moment his little dance in his underwear and I said this guy's clearly a star

but when I said, I've got to go back to London, but before I go, I need to put you on video. That's what I was doing to everybody. And he said he couldn't do it. His people wouldn't let him, whatever that meant. And it was very sad because he was just starting out and he felt, I felt clearly he's under control already. Right. And he's a lovely guy, but it never happened. So, because the riskier stuff he's done, it's like, I appreciate the Mission Impossible movies, but I also, like, when he does the magnolia. That's when it gets really interested.

No, it's good. Yeah. And there's another side. You know, Tropic Thunder. I didn't know who that was until I saw the credits. Good for him. Totally, totally. Is there, I was, again, I was watching Hamster Effect about 12 monkeys? Was that your one and only test screening experience?

To watch Terry Gilliam have to go through test greetings, seems like... I thought it was very good. I mean, that was that documentary was nice, because there it was, because nobody ever sees that side of filmmaking. And that's the stuff that you've done your work, and then you, Well, when I'm cutting a film, I'm showing it to a lot of people as I'm going along,

so I know pretty much how it plays. Sure. But then you go to those things, and those screenings, the executives are there. The audience knows they are given power. And the stuff that comes out is unbelievable. And that document is great because I'm still talking to the editor. It was like, wow, it works. They really react.

Yeah, and then the paper comes back. Yeah, because you felt the energy. and it was not on paper. No, and it happened before on Chabawak when I first was doing that, and I remember getting good reactions. Then afterwards, these people just hated the film, apparently. And you think, what's going on here? And it's because a sheet of paper put it in front of them.

And they then become like critics. They feel I've got our approach just not just like a guy coming to watch a movie. I'm going to tell the truth. It's very weird. since in recent months there's been intriguing news for someone that grew up I've told you this before but the first movie I ever saw in a theater was Time Bandits

that Time Bandits is going to be turned into a TV series So I'm told Are you involved at all? I'm apparently the executive producer Whatever that means Whatever that means Are you okay with that? My contract is not signed yet Okay

And I just want to be able to try to Make sure it is In the same spirit as the original and I want to be able to say no I'm still waiting to find out how this thing really works in fact will I have real power

or what we don't know so have they given you their take on like what their approaches or anything well I've read who's directing and writing the first one yeah yeah and I read it on the internet and I've said when they sign my contact

then I'll get involved and we get chatty at that point, but I think he's a good choice. He's a very talented. Very talented, very funny guy. I would imagine you guys would get a long famous guy. Because I only saw the Thor Ragnarok. Yeah. And I know, great. This is somebody who's got a good take on things. What we do in the shadows, I would highly recommend as well, as well as Wilder people. He's like, I can, I'm going into this with high hopes that once it's signed and sealed, you can figure it out. I remember you were talking, speaking of TV about defective detective, about developing that into a TV series. Any

progress on that front? I don't know. In fact, I'm seeing Richard Lugrovine's this afternoon. And I wrote it after Fisher King. And at one point we started thinking, okay, we're never going to get the money to make this. It's to expense, but maybe Netflix would like a six-part series. And we've talked about it. I'm not sure of a six-part series is the right way, because this film is flipping back and forth between reality and fantasy. It's actually a middle-aged detective,

New York detective, having kind of a nervous breakdown. And I think within a two-hour piece, you can control that and you can't escape from it, which is more powerful than at the end of each episode, you're relieved or you're not relieved, whichever. Right.

I don't know. The pressure cooker of it is almost part of the... That's it. The pressure is really key. And that's why I like making films and not series. On the other hand, the best stuff that's been done to me,

breaking bad, is still one of the great, stories told in the last many years and it's beautifully done. Is there a script in your back pocket that you have as much love for as Kyoto that with a little bit of freshening up that makes it feel of the moment would be ready to go?

Nope. I'm empty. I'm a void. There's nothing going on up there for the first time in my life. I'm actually a bit nervous. I'm reading a lot right now. Books hoping something will spark. Well, sometimes as you well,

Well, no. I mean, like, as much trepidation as you probably had of Fisher King or Twelve Monkeys, sometimes the collaborations from Without have turned it to some of your best work. Here's what I'd love right now. To get a script that's pretty much ready to go, they just need a director and a couple actors. Yeah. And that's what happened with Fisher's Day. You deserve something like that.

You put in your time. If there's karma in the universe. I know, if there's any karma. I hope it's working against the Trumps and the others of this world. but I'm not sure. The camera's on holiday at the moment for a few key people. On an extended leave, exactly. We're waiting for it.

But when it comes back, Terry, it's going to be so juicy, so good. Yes, that's what I'm counting on. We want the fall to go on forever. Just watch the fall. He's falling and he's still falling and he's falling and he's about to hit. Or he does hit. Oh, he's still falling. He hits another one and oh, it's endless.

We want that. Exactly. You haven't lived here for quite a while in the States. Is there any part of you? What's the most American part of you at this point? I mean, is that the Minnesota boy still went within you? Fulish optimism. That's the, he already story, is a bit of an American who just couldn't let go.

No, but I'm now 100% British. And I don't, I'm, no, Britain is a complete disaster at the moment with Brexit. But at least I'm glad I'm not responsible for the Donald. Don't put that on me, man. But I love the fact he's helping Quixote by saying windmills cause cancer. And so Keote is out there fighting windmills. He's a man fighting cancer.

Oh, my God. You always find the right marketing in, sir. Well, as you know, every film is kind of a miracle. This one in particular is a true miracle that we've got in here. Congratulations on it, sir. Hopefully it won't be another five years. Someone give this guy a great script and get back to work. I'm ready to be a whore.

There you go. Terry Gilliam will work for food. Thanks, ma'am. Great, thank you. Appreciate it. I like these where we just didn't talk like this. It's a chat. And there's bad shit.

You just cut it out. It's easy. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Joe. Gosh. Hey, Michael.

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