Happy Sad Confused - THE INCREDIBLE HULK with Louis Leterrier I Watchalong

Episode Date: November 6, 2023

Strap in for a new exciting HAPPY SAD CONFUSED mini-series! This is WATCHALONG where we watch an entire movie alongside a filmmaker. Today we bring you Louis Leterrier watching THE INCREDIBLE HULK! Josh and Louis go deep on the underrated 2008 film, discussing the infamous Edward Norton stories, how Louis earned William Hurt's respect, the iconic band that almost did the soundtrack and so much more! If you want to watch the ENTIRE Watchalong, it's available exclusively on our patreon! Patreon.com/happysadconfused SPONSORS Masterclass -- Get 15% off RIGHT NOW at Masterclass.com/HSC BetterHelp -- This episode is sponsored by/brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/HSC and get on your way to being your best self Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, it's official. We are very much in the final sprint to election day. And face it, between debates, polling releases, even court appearances, it can feel exhausting, even impossible to keep up with. I'm Brad Milkey. I'm the host of Start Here, the Daily Podcast from ABC News.

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I was like, I don't know. I honestly don't know how to do that. It's a tough one. And guardians. The first time I met with Kevin and Ovi, I was like, okay, great, you know, got the job. I'm so excited. Okay, where's the script? We don't have a script, but the great news is that we have a release date.

Oh, God, no. Hello, devoted happy, say, confused listeners. It is I, Josh Harrow. It's here with a quick preamble before we dive into this week's bonus episode of the podcast. You are about to listen to a happy, say, I confused watch along. The very first happy say I confused watch along. In fact, for the next couple of months, you are going to hear a series of bonus episode. with great filmmakers who I sat down with and watched one of their iconic works.

This first episode is with Louis Lettieri. We sat down and watched the entirety of the Incredible Hulk. It's a two-hour conversation. Now, what you're about to hear is kind of the best of, the 45 minutes or so that we deemed the, yeah, the best of that conversation. But if you are a fanatic like me, you want the whole damn thing, don't you? So here's what you're going to do. You'll go to Patreon. dot com slash happy say I confused sign up over there and you can in fact watch louis and i have a conversation for the entirety of the incredible Hulk there's so much bonus material there it is well worth checking out if you're a devotee of the MCU of louis of the incredible Hulk it's all

there for you right now all you'll have to do is fire up the Incredible Hulk at the 321 hit play on that special bonus content and you're off to the races anyway that's what's coming And what's coming up in the next few weeks are a series of amazing filmmakers all talking about very important works to them and hopefully to you, certainly to me. I'm so proud of this mini-series that is basically a bonus series, if you will, on your feed of Happy, Sad Confused. So without any further ado, here we go. I'm going to toss to myself. This is the very first Happy Say I Confused Watch-Along, me and Louis Latterier talking about The Incredible Hulk. Enjoy.

Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins. now i'm josh horowitz and this is a happy sad confused watch along what are we watching today guys it's an incredible movie from the dawn of the mc u it's filled with monsters and angry shirtless dudes it's the incredible Hulk and we're watching it with louis leiterre louis are you ready i am very ready i haven't watched it for a long time how long has it been a few years i must see okay are you filled with dread, excitement, worry. No, I mean, excited, excited.

I really, that's the thing. As a director, you sort of like do them, watch them so many times. Just sort of like put them away. And then, you know, this is exciting. When you called me, I got very excited. We're pulling it out of the closet. It's worthy of a second look. There's a lot to talk about.

And the opening, there's actually a lot to talk about because this was not originally how you were going to start this film, correct? Absolutely. The opening was supposed to, and we shot it, it's in a version. of the Blu-ray that you can find, where Banner was traveling up north, up to the North Pole, and we shot it in Belcula, in Canada,

and was walking up a glacier and trying to off himself, stripping off all his clothes, and Edward did that, and putting a gun in his mouth, and we focus on the eyes, and the eyes turn green, and then we go into a point of view,

and he hulks out. But it's all point of view. that he saves him basically Hulk saves banner got it and as he did this and that's very interesting he does his first Hulk smash breaks the glacier and as he breaks the glacier you see in one piece of the glacier the shield right yeah you remember that so i do i have to say that sounds amazing and it you can watch it but i do love this sequence because for any fans and we're going to talk about the tv show a lot in this because you obviously have a lot of affection for the TV show there's shots that are pulled basically right out of the show here that's an homage yeah i grew up watching the

show actually the show is what made me want to become a filmmaker uh i was so invested in the the pathos of uh of of of david banner in the show and and we we you know we we just approach zach penn and i the the screenwriting of this movie that came actually close to the original Hulk directed by Angli, but we didn't want to do a sequel. No, I didn't want to do a remake. We wanted to make our version of something that felt more human. This all was intended, or a lot of this was intended, as I understand it, as kind of flashbacks. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, there were flashbacks.

And, and, you know, it was, you know, quite a bit of storytelling. And we combined it through, you know, in this great opening sequence, by Cal Cooper in Prologue, you know, Cal Cooper did the opening of seven and, you know, amazing, amazing credit company. So they, so we, we came up with this edit and with all the titles and then worked on this, on this, you know, dream type state of Bruce Banner. We spent two days shooting that Bruce Banner doing yoga and doing some exercises and everything. And I got a call from the studio saying, guys, guys, you're doing the incredible halt, not a yoga video. So please, you know, get moving, get moving.

Had you been up for other superhero comic book properties? Never. You know, I grew up in France. You know, I, although I studied filmmaking in NYU, I'd never thought I would direct superhero movies. I was attracted by them. And that's why one day after doing, actually three movies I'd done before, I did Transporter one, Unleashed and Transportor 2, after Transportor 2, I just came to LA and basically did my

homework, went and met everyone and told them, here's my resume, and I'd love to do this. And I met Avirad and Kevin Feige and told them, I know you might want to do some things about you know with your superheroes i'm very very interested i'm a huge fan and and they had this big poster in the in the lobby and said well pick a superhero that you'd like and i want this guy tony stock ironman that's what i want to do like that's the one one i can't give you no no no no no no they're like great great great go back home and literally three weeks later they called me and they said we've got great news we'd like you to direct movie for us. I was like, ah, and they said, Hulk, you know, Angley did it really two years

before, three years before he gave me the call. And, uh, and, uh, thought about it, uh, and realized that my favorite movies growing up were Frankenstein, the original King Kong, Werewolf movies, and Hulk, I, you know, and Hulk, the TV show being so formative. So I was just like, of Of course, yes. They saw what I couldn't see. They saw that I was the guy that could do this movie. So we came to a, it was my first Comic Con ever. They brought me to San Diego and sat me in a whole Z, you know, 30 people in the audience. You introduced John Favreau, myself, and Edgar Wright. Right. And we were the three first directors that were supposed to do Iron Man Hulk and then Ant Man. and then we started writing

and I started writing with with Zach and and and we again like we took a lot of stuff that we liked we really based it on the event the ultimate you know Avengers Ultimates

that's that's a book that I really loved you know Bandis Ellis and Mark Millar and and really based it on this plus the TV show plus some ideas and this has a very distinct aesthetic

and tone and feel to it that it's it feels apart in a good way I mean that is a compliment from the from the MCU films well we shot it I wanted to make it a little you know

dirty used you know a huge fan of Fincher what he did on 7 I thought what was fantastic and really made this movie tactile Actile and timeless and everything. So we shot on 35, and it was just the beginning of digital,

but we shot 35. I used an old Panavision series, anamorphic series, animorphic also, so you know, so you get the flares. It really looks like, you know, it's really beautiful. The colors is really treated beautifully. And we try to do as much practically as possible. You know, obviously the Hulk we couldn't do practically, but everything he moved,

you know, a lot of the car stuff, everything that you'll see with it practically. And, you know, that mix was, and also shooting on location. Really going to the places, traveling the world with all our crew was very, very useful. And I had a great combination of studios, Marvel and Universal, great, great filmmaker-friendly places. So we should start to get into the casting because you've got an amazing group here. So Edward is, you know, top 2% of actors. on the planet. He's amazing what he can bring to a performance. He's also a very smart writer, a director in his own right. Was it a short list? Like, were there other people

even considered? Yeah, it's known, well known that my original choice was Mark Ruffalo. And Marvel, David Maisel at the time, you know, who was running Marvel, said, you know, he's not famous enough at the time. And although he was perfectly right, he was not famous enough. And somebody had the idea of Edward and I said, wow, it's great. I mean, amazing actor, genius. Let's go and meet him. And Galan and Herd and myself, we go to New York and have a lovely meeting with Edward,

pitching ideas, the movie, and he hates it. He absolutely every hates the tone. Is he open about it? Like, that's not for me. I'm just, that's not my thing. It's like lovely dinner, but no. So, Gail and I, we fly back to L.A. And the moment we arrive, you know, no Wi-Fi on planes, then,

we arrive in L.A. turn on our phones. And we have 15 messages each. And we pick up. It's like, Edward's in. He loves it. We made the deal. You have an actor and a producer and a screenwriter. So that was the caveat.

Like there's enough here for me to sink my teeth into, if you guys give me a little bit of creative control too. Exactly, exactly, exactly. Were you guys kind of in lockstep in the kind of movie you were making? Oh, Edward and I, absolutely. I think the whole way everybody was very much in lockstep. It just got, you know, I mean, it just got tense at the end. And I think at the end, very much it was tense about the tone and the level of humor although edward is very funny yeah all his friends are comedians like he's a you know extremely

funny guy but he i think was very right in defending the seriousness of of the movie you have to remember it was you know the mid 2010s the dark night had such an impact on superhero movies family we have to mention yeah yeah is that a moment is that a day on set that was an amazing day on set that was there was an incredible day on set i think the implications of this is stanley then turn into a hulk is that the sequel we never saw that's the sequel you never saw that's the sequel you never saw but he was always our plan he was always you know zach and i that was our plan like that's follow the drop yeah have you ever seen this movie lord of war you know andro an yes yeah they follow a bullet yeah they follow a bullet so i wanted to do like you follow the drop of

blood that would turn uh the banner in uh and i wanted to finish with stanney because i always thought that Stan is great when he does his cameos, but they're all a little jockey, but I thought that if it was like the most important part of the movie, you know, my first time directing a big Hollywood movie was very, very important because there's all these challenges, big budget. It was a bonded movie. This movie was financed by the fireman. You know, Marvel movies were financed in the beginning by the fireman. The fireman insurance was the people. Yeah, that's the stuff that paid for Iron Man and Hulk, you know. And so we had, you know, we had bond people on sets. saying don't go over don't do this don't do that you know so no it was very important and then and then you'll see and I'll show you upon these shots yeah sometimes I was letting him direct himself I was I was doing you know first unit during the day and second unit at night or vice versa and I was like I was asking him to start the first five hours without me as we were overlapping and there's some really amazing stuff that Tim Roth directed oh wow oh Edward directed

Edward, I was going to say. Both of them's like, no, everyone's the wrecking. No, Edward, again, such a great resource. Why not use him? Was there a much different cut that you all kind of came to blows on? Not at all. It was very much that opening with the community suicide. But obviously, we all knew it's four quadrant.

We cannot start with that. But I thought he was a very important one. And frankly, you know what, it's because of the soundtrack. Or maybe I don't remember if it was a teaser of the overall soundtrack, where Edward is great friends with Tom York and he wanted Radiohead to do the music and thought it was genius. But we know what Radiohead sounds like

and I think Marvel was pushing for a little bit more of a typical Hollywood soundtrack and we thought and not a compromise but what we thought was the elegant in between was to find Craig Armstrong, who had worked with Massive Attack, to create this soundtrack, which is haunting. It's kind of, I mean, I will say, I mean, I would love to hear Tom York soundtrack, too, of this, but like, it's a kind of romantic, old school kind of movie, movie soundtrack.

I know, completely would, you know, shot, you know, recorded, you know, in a church in Seattle, like, we really went for something that felt, as you said, a little, a little dated, you know, we didn't want to do like beatboxes and you know sort of like exciting bone born supremacy volunteer mediums you know right action sounds you know like we've done before i think that's one of the sequence i think oh no i was there for that yeah i love that like that i think that was his idea uh that he shoots the dog that we'll immediately know which side you're on yeah yeah there you go i was like i just me Okay, let's do it.

You don't want to wait for the Hulk and just, you know, look at your watch. When is the Hulk coming? You want to love the movie with Bruce Banner and everybody else. And actually fear the moment when the Hulk arrives. So you have this sort of like dichotomy of these two movies that are fighting with each other. And the only way to do this was, you know, great script, number one and frankly, amazing actors. So you cast the hell out of it and you have amazing actors that actually really

you know clash together really well on screen and don't like each other because that's the beauty of seemingly don't like each other that works really well

you bring the tension you don't have to have screaming matches on the screen you just sense it with one look and William Hurd gives you that gives you that

that intensity and you know was he game I mean he's a he was notoriously kind of a very intellectual, serious actor, was he tough to kind of get on your

side to like... Not get on my side. It was tough to convince that we're not just making... You know, paint by the numbers comic book, but just that look at this look. Everything is non-verbal in this movie, like a lot of his non-verbal. And so you can only do this

with amazing actors. He also didn't want the mustache to act him out, you know? So, you know, just the size of the mustache was a discussion. but sometimes he and I clashed but I think that was this you know you have two types of actors

three types of I guess you've got your partners you've got your best friends that you have to control all day and you have the people that like to have these these arguments yes they feed off of that

and from what I gather that was not unique for you that that was just how he worked that's how he worked and then one day he just was screaming at me you don't know

anything about actors we have a and he was and you know too bad for him he was in the helicopter the giant helicopter at the end and I was I was in the control he was like you have to find the the button to the nuclear power that is the nuclear plant that is in my and I took the joystick and I went and I shook him into the thing he fell and he looked at me he was like I like you and that was it he just wanted to have a little bit of a fight You know, it's just a little bit. Yep.

Well, it works. You know, the performance works. So however you got there. So he was actually really, it was very interesting. It's when they go on top of the thing. So coming up, it sounds like, in a way, this plays, again, there's a good, whatever. You can look at both sides of it. Like you would have had the revealed, the green eyes if you had done the different opening.

But I kind of like that. Like, you know, we're 20 plus minutes in. Yeah, absolutely. You're holding back. And that's what the idea came from Peter Kramer. who was the exact then and who's there we go right out of them that's that's kind of the show that's that's exactly that that's that's exactly this and you want to do this with a you know a nice film noir thing so that the beauty of it during the volvo fall experience event

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obviously it's yes you know it's what you don't see that's important yeah the yeah it goes a while before we get a really good look at yeah and the first person to see him is emil blonski that's Tim Roth right to get a good look at him and a terrified look You a Star Wars guy, too? Yeah, we all are. Of course. I mean, that would be weird for you to say, not really. No, but we all are.

We, we, we, we all, any, you know, person, man, woman, you know, American, French, you know, Asian person who says they're making, you know, in their 40s, saying they're making, they're, you know, they're, they're, you know, they're, they're, they're. making movies for a different reason than trying to do a Star Wars movie are lying we all are trying in a way to make a Star Wars movie like even like in my last movie in Fast X I put Thai fighter sounds in it you know just cannot help myself so do you have your dream Star Wars idea you have your yeah I had it a long time ago when I came to them and pitched a loan full we should do a Star Wars TV show with conceived as a lone wolf and cub And they said, we don't know if it's a great idea. We'll come back to you. We'll come back to you with this idea. Did you really? What? Yeah.

And what kind of characters were it? Was it a mandoloren? Was it like a... It was not Mandoloreen. It was two things. It was a... I wanted to do the missing part between... Basically, you know, before New Hope, where...

Where... Obi-1 takes Luke and then, you know, I wanted to do. do that, but also was very interested in the Boba Fett movie. What you sure? Did.

Then, that's okay. I did all. I did other things. But that must have been a moment when you saw the announcement, like, wait. But when you, you know, it's all good. It's all good. Yeah. It's all part of the thing.

And frankly, I had this idea because he was like a low hanging foot. I think it was like so obvious. And so the characters are so iconic. And, you know, so, yeah, didn't go the way I wanted. You've, you've gotten some pretty amazing shots, some amazing franchises. I mean, let's be real. You know, be upsetly.

So in retrospect, like, do you feel like, I mean, by any standards, the movie did well accepted by these crazy, like, comic book movie standards, right? And like, but, like, how much of it is a function of, like, it was pretty soon after that Hulk movie. It was very early in the MCU. You kind of had some challenging circumstances in retrospect. Yeah, but I never did it to be the king of the box office. Like I did it because I was in love with a character.

And it was my dream to make this kind of a movie. That was, I thought, would be my last movie ever. I put everything in it. Do you take it as a badge of honor that so many of the supporting characters have now come back around into the MCU that you cast it well, clearly? because Tim's back, word that live might be back. I know, yeah. William Hart was back for a second. Yeah, exactly.

Yes, absolutely. I mean, there was a, wasn't there? Look, that's Luferino. That's our cameo. You played the Hulk in the original one. So, yeah, there was a conversation where Edward could come back and it didn't happen. But, yeah, it's just a...

i don't know it's is it is it uh did they realize we did it right uh you know afterwards or or you know does it make sense or is it you know fan service who knows but i i i thought that they were like the right the right people for this job yeah were you surprised how that from your vantage point when that all went down that was a big big deal very oh very surprised yeah very surprised because it was never there was no tension no tension and then one day it was done and i was like oh okay and and i loved edward and and i had to finish the movie like i could yeah yeah again i don't want to belabor it but i i remember because i was kind of doing stuff at mtb at the time like as i recall like edward

didn't do press really at the time no no we did one thing all together um it's hard it's funny it's like i feel bad because i love him i loved him martin star yeah martin star yeah everybody was like yeah but it's also like so martin star friends of edward so again like just to tell you like he he yeah he was invested he brought he brought he really tie burrell i believe tyberl okay absolutely that's that he really has great taste great instinct great instincts for comedy but yeah yeah yeah it's it's it's it's it's it's i feel bad because i i just like i love love love him and i loved working with him yeah and i saw him the other day at park with his kids and i i just want to go and be like hey oh it's been 10 years man has it been

that one you haven't seen him since the end of the film i saw him at the like in new york at a premiere yeah quickly um he's friends with wudie harrison we did this movie together with he and i and he was there but i i don't know if he thinks i'm like part of the other guy whatever i was just I was neutral. I literally was like, let's make the best movie possible. I just don't want to. And I was,

even after he was gone, I was asking him what he thought of some ideas. And so I just wanted him to be proud of this movie. It should be. Well, we're going to bring the gang back together. I'm going to make this reunion happen. Yes.

Edward, come on in. When I saw that third mic, I was like, oh, what's happening? Were you fully invested? By the time you wrapped on NISC, even given kind of the back and forth on the cut and what you want to do.

You were apt to do a sequel? Yeah, well, no. I mean, it was difficult. The ending was difficult. So it came before. That was actually our plan with Zach Penn and even with Edward was to cast as well as we could all these bit parts

because we knew how they would evolve. So obviously Red Hulk, obviously the leader, we were talking about the leader, Emil Blonsky. We knew that everybody could, there could be arborescences from, you know, created off of the main movie. Never dreamt of doing an MCU, but knew that we could do our own little extension of the movie.

Just like, I mean, one of my favorite superhero movies is the second Spider-Man, the Sam Ramee is Spider-Man. It's so good and so good because Doc Hawk is so great. a familiar performance and frankly the freedom I mean the pure Sam Ramey directing that is involved in when he's crewed that the moment on the table

on the table pure horror pure horror that's amazing we talk about this with Andy Muskeetti all the time about that scene and we're like we need to make a movie that is just this takes place in a hospital when there's a creature and that's that

and just have no music no that just like tentacles grabbing stuff. Love it. I'm there. Do it. And so that's what I wanted was to make a, you know, a pure first movie with some seeds planted here and there and then expand. But you were giving yourself, like you weren't locked into one story. You kind of like had different ideas that like, okay, I've cast

this so well that I could go in any direction depending on where the script goes. Everything is possible. You want to give yourself you know you want to give you know deal yourself the best hand possible and that's what we did so the the betty ross movie the you know the red hawk the everything you know jo fix it like really we could have had you know many movies like you know we were hoping it would work but it worked in a different way because hulk is you know very important part of of the mccu but but you know it's not exactly the vision were you i remember there was talk that you were on the short list at the time did you ever talk to figy about avengers no i uh no i talked to

figy about uh passed on uh on thor i was like i don't know i honestly don't know how to do that's a tough one uh and guardians avengers yes i mean obviously i told him about avengers but i you know didn't make it to the list i think but but i met on on the guardians and i met uh and he actually asked me if i was interested in thor yeah so and guardians had you been a fan of the comic did you have a no well i mean uh when i knew they were doing it i just went deep into it and i was just it's crazy they're doing this and you know talk about my star wars i was like i'm definitely not doing a star wars obviously since my terrible meeting So take your idea, but you can go.

There's the door. Yeah. But no. And then and but to add this sort of like feeling of space opera. Yeah, yeah. With the Marvel look and a sense of humor would be great. But even this, like this is really a horror movie. It's Frankenstein and look at this.

And that needle could not be longer. Give me the longest needle. in America. It doesn't exist. Bring it the one, the Russian one. Attach another needle to the needle. Exactly. We have had snipers on target in a few more minutes.

I want to know who jumped that time. Thanks. Also, one of the beauty of this movie, like we didn't have a second unit. We had, with a splinter unit, but I was directing, as we said, like day and night. Right.

And so it's truly, truly my vision. Like, you know, no shot was not something that I had thought of design. And there's our... Which doesn't mean that, yeah. Our Super Blonsky. Super Blonsky. Don't for real. Like we had this.

I heard you say that. So he's literally being pulled? Is that what's up? He's being pulled. So he was like running on a... So we had this rug made out of fake grass pulled by a truck and he was running on that rug. So, so, you know, just imagine like an escalator or, you know, thing. And you're just like, go 50 miles per hour.

Better not fall of the truck. the rug if you roll off but but that was him doing that stuff so this is what is this comics king Kong a little both that's a bit of both it's very much that's exactly shot by shot gray Hulk you know uh and then definitely inspired by king Kong sort of like that's yeah this might well be fair ray and yeah it's a fair yeah exactly yeah i guess had she done war of the rings by now so she'd had some experience yeah she she had no problem she like give me a tennis ball I've done this before I know it's

I'll cry Is it an ork? Is it a whole? Tell me What I got? She was more comfortable She was like Yeah, just

Just give me tennis balls No, she was She was wonderful to work with We just We had a really good time I don't remember I think it was like a 13 week shoot

Toronto and And Brazil But we It was a really smooth shoot And Well you must have been balancing kind of like I mean obviously there's pressure but like the giddiness of getting to play with this yeah like it's just knowing what I do about you and your interests like it must have

been like I get to do this I guess actors come on I think we're coming to the most important scene in the film Louis so the floor is about to be yours 45 minutes please just tell me about the sexual okay um the sexuality of Bruce Banner okay so so yeah obviously he's deeply deeply in love with Betty Ross and we wanted to you know have these moments

where you know he would be intimate with her and we had we talked about this we actually talked about shooting a scene where

they are actually you know making love and and his eyes start to turn green a little bit and she has stopped she

she sensed it and she's So we just had innuendos. I just thought it would be like, I think movies are fun when you can go with your family and then see different things. And, you know, it's just we just wanted to, you know, not take ourselves too seriously about it. But, you know, make it real. Like, what would two adults do? Yeah.

Were you a DC guy too growing up? Were you into those heroes? Not really. Yeah. Yes. Yes, obviously. but I think... I mean, you can't not be into Batman, I guess.

No, I cannot be into Batman, not be into Batman. But I think, like, for example, I mean, it's very, you know, Andy's going to do it, but I don't know what you, you know, I don't know how to do Batman after Chris Nolan has done Batman. Yeah. Like, you know, I honestly don't know. He has to go a different way. Superman, I actually pitch myself on a couple of...

Oh, yeah, I feel like you were on the short list for Man of Steel, weren't, Berman origin story, like younger, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But it would have been very different, yeah, yeah, absolutely. You wanted to do, like, a younger Superman, like a... Yes, kind of... I mean, it's just a high school Superman thing. Oh, cool.

But played in the 50s. I mean, you know, go back to the dig down the thing and just go for it. But the... Yeah, there was a great comic book that I loved. I wanted to adapt. It was called Secret Identity or something like this. romantic. Well, I thought it was absolutely great. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times.

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Hey, Michael. Hey, Tom. Big news to share it, right? Yes, huge, monumental, earth shaking. Heartbeat, sound effect, big. Mait is back. That's right. After a brief snack nap.

We're coming back. We're picking snacks. We're eating snacks. We're raiding snacks. Like the snackologist we were born to be. Mates is back. Mike and Tom, eat snacks. Snacks.

Wherever you get your podcast. Unless you get them from a snack machine, in which case, call us. I think, I mean, ultimately, every, ask any filmmaker they've had. Oh, yeah. They've been called for something. Would you be, is there an interest if this, you know. It's just whether we know about them or not. Yeah, exactly.

Whether we, the press heard about it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, it's official. We are very much in the final sprint to election day. And face it, between debates, polling releases, even court appearances, it can feel exhausting, even impossible to keep up with. I'm Brad Milkey. I'm the host of Start Here, the Daily Podcast from ABC News, and every morning my team and I get you caught up on the day's news in a quick, straightforward way that's easy to understand, with just enough context so you can. can listen, get it, and go on with your day.

So, kickstart your morning. Start Smart with Start Here and ABC News, because staying informed shouldn't feel overwhelming. Did the meditation kind of aspect in the beginning was that, like what did Edward contribute to the script? Yeah, that, for example, was a very important, you know, he just brought, he sort of like, he brought it into more of a human, level, very much a human level, with less, I think the tone in the beginning, you know,

you know, Zach Penn's movies, it's like, you know, the script, yeah, it's very, you know, it has a great comic book sensibility with, uh, with sometimes big, big lips and bounds throughout the, through the story in order to get you to where you need to be. Whereas Edward, Edward's script was, you know, and it's a good balance between the two of them, was much slower, much, much, you know, human, human, human. I think in Edward's movie, like, the first time Hulk showed up was like page 45 or something. So we come from, you know, we did, okay, page 20. Stuff like that, that's Edward. I mean, that's very much Edward, you know.

practical things like you know what if you know if you were the Hulk and this happened to you like you know he lives in New York he said yeah New York taxi rides out terrifying you know totally this is your your Spider-Man 2 yeah Doc Oxy kind of yeah exactly no the oh the the American Warwolf this was my American World Wolf this was my American World War Wolf yeah we see these shots they're like very precisely designed because they were very difficult shots to then you know it was like 10 years ago no one had done stuff like that is you know obviously now he's full CG but before he was like a hybrid not only if he's for CG still Edward it it's interesting to do this for you because you always want to do something that's never been done before but also pay homage, you know, and, you know, don't take it to the Uncanny Valley and just keep it real. But the technology has to, you almost have to, so you write the script two years before

you are going to post the movie. So you have to hope that the technology gets there when you write the script. That's also something to think about, like when you, you know, like, that's why avatars never come out when they're supposed to come out, because the technology is not up to snuff when they're supposed to, yeah. Yeah, well, he's somebody that, like, can write anything and knows he'll, he'll make the camera that can do what he dreams of. Yeah, but it's, I work with him and we design cameras together, so I know, but the camera is one hundredth of the difficulty of Avatar movies. So this, that's the problem with this, with movies like this. I remember, that's one thing also.

I remember the first time I met with Kevin and Avi, I was like, okay, great, you know, got the job. so excited. Okay, where's the script? We don't have a script, but the great news is that we have a release date. God, no. It's a good one. Is that a good news? I mean, I guess it is. It's, it's a good release date. In 18 months, you ready? Yeah, kind of that. It was my intro to Hollywood. It was like, it was like, okay, and now you get it. It's really about proffing within the parameters. Well, it's like, yeah, exactly. Pulling out a product. Now, as a filmmaker, will you, you know, fight and defend yourself in order to get the best movie possible

or just give up? I mean, that's, you kind of see, we all see the movies that were filmmakers just couldn't fight anymore. And just, yeah. This is for the fans. They know what this leads to. Exactly.

You really want to see a doctor if your head starts to do that. That's where he's, but yeah, he's happy. this was my uh again like horror this is like cloverfield homage oh sure i love i love matt reeves i love jj and there was like a few things that i was like paying on i just think that they're you know what they brought to modern filmmaking you know in in its simple their simplicity of their directing storytelling so yeah yeah it's very visceral you're kind of in the boots of them yeah exactly it's just there and yeah you're playing a lot with

perspective yeah yeah yeah yeah play with perspective and like if i were if i were to do the movie now i would go even more uh you know practical like i would shoot hell like real helicopters and stuff yeah like we didn't have that sikorsky it's a big helicopter so we can get it from the military but i would i would push for it because that that was all practical like this street this is downtown toronto you that's a young street yeah oh yeah yeah yeah we see like you know all real like all that stuff was real that's great hundreds and hundreds of cars that i remember that oh yeah yeah that's that was the a partnership with

Hasbro, but they're like, okay, you have to find a way to use the Nerf gun. Are you kidding? That's hysterical. I think I found it. I think I have an idea. I have an idea. So again, I try to ground everything. Like, if it didn't make sense,

if a design didn't make sense, just like the Hulk, if a design didn't make sense, I wouldn't do it. So this is this is drama. This is romantic drama, sacrifice, everything you want. Music, I love also the swel. Oh, this is great.

Oh, I was going to say, you know the Hulk going like this? That's me. That's me sort of like mocap, the thing. But you can see because also I play the Cracken in Clashore the Titans, and that's the same thing. That's my... You got your one move. That's my one move.

And I do it to my kids these days. I'm like, it's my Cracken Hulk move, guys. I get paid millions of dollars to do this. I get paid millions of dollars. hero I'm a bad guy what do you want and you get this for free yeah and also oh so okay so you're I love that that was my the gloves that was my you know because remember the Hulk gloves yeah yeah yeah of course let's do like some cool new Hulk gloves and I was like oh we should take like cars that you can split in half and then they didn't go for the toys did you get any

hulk swag out of this at waste do you still have anything I have cool Hulk nikes yeah Air Force ones that I designed. You and Cameron sounds like you have a working relationship to be James Cameron. James Cameron, yeah. Because my wife is named Cameron, so yeah. Oh, you have a relationship too, hopefully. I have a Cameron at home.

No, we had, we had a great great few months together. I mean, that guy. It's like, no, he and I worked on, you know, that's still the movie that I want to do. It's just a new interpretation of Isaac Asimov's Fantastic Voyage. But hard, like, hard, like good, like a thriller.

Yeah. Not a joke. And it's a love story. It's amazing. But, yeah, we invented cameras for it. We worked seven months together. And then when they disappeared. And I was like, where are you?

Where are you? And he just disappeared. And he was doing the Marianna trench. Right. And you haven't heard of him since. What's going on, Louis? You have lots of fancy friends. If you see him, two things.

I want to ask you two things. Since you have your best friend with Tom Cruise, if Doug Lyman doesn't do the space movie. Oh, you want to go into space with Tom? That's my, I'm a little tall. I'm 6'4, but I'd love to. Yeah, yeah, I'd do it. But I'd love to do that.

Is that both, like, both things appeal to you? Working with Tom, of course. Oh, incredible. Yeah. And you're a space guy. yes and also doing you know doing something again that practical aspect of it just the idea of like going and shooting the stuff and you know I shoot I operate I do all the stuff like yeah and then James Cameron yeah if you see him like I just convince him to was that script done did he like what did he

write yeah there was several no it was it was it was it was James he was Chancellor no the lead actor or greatest there was like lots of very excellent versions of that script that always very you know a really scary world war three on the outside and a love story on the inside sounds amazing amazing um where where you know the person operated woman operated on and then her lover goes inside and her husband is the surgeon on the outside and Imagine that. Josh, if you will. I will do my best.

The will listen to existence. IMAX. Make it happen. High frame rate inside the body. Oh, wait, we have to talk about this. No, why? Come on. So you get a chance not only to do one more

scene with William Hurt, but Tony Stark himself. That must have been a swell day. That's the stuff we picked up. So that's the only thing we picked up. And, you know, maybe a couple of inserts. but we yeah you know I in my dream of sort of like I've been sort of like I was badgering down I was like Kevin is there any way I can't get Robert anyway I anyway I anyway you know again because obsessed with the Avengers obsessed with Ultimates saying like is there any way we

can sort of do this and then we worked it out with with Paramount and and we're able to do that scene I thought it would be a wink wink scene but that's yeah beginning of the MCU. Truly. And Downey, amazing, just to have even for a few hours

to do this. Oh, it's incredible. He comes in. He's like such an incredible pro. Amazing. We did it, Louie.

We revisited this amazing movie. It wasn't painful. It was pleasurable, I hope. Totally pleasurable. It's great. Actually, yeah, it holds up.

Yeah. It holds a little bit. No, no, you're good. You're good, but look you can watch She Hulk now with a very different

a little bit different. Let's stick with the Louie. Uh, congratulations, man. Thank you for indulging this trip down memory lane. Uh, incredible Hulk with Louis Latterier. What a treat. Thanks, Josh. Thanks for having me.

Thanks, man. If you enjoyed this watch along with Louis Literrier, I've got great news for you. Go to our Patreon page, patreon.com slash happy, say I'm confused. And you can watch the entire film alongside me and Louie right now. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on I, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person.

I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. American history is full of infamous tales that continue to captivate audiences, decades or even hundreds of years after they happened. On the infamous America podcast, you'll hear the true stories of the Salem Witch Trials and the escape attempts from Alcatraz, of bank robbers like John Dillinger in pretty boy Floyd, of killers like Lizzie Borden and Charles Starkweather, of mysteries like the Black Dahlia and D.B. Cooper, and of events that inspired movies like Goodfellas, Killers of a Flower Moon, Zodiac, Eight Men Out, and many more. I'm Chris Wimmer. Join me as we crisscrossed the country

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