Happy Sad Confused - THE WEST WING reunion (Martin Sheen & Dule Hill)

Episode Date: April 9, 2026

20 years have passed since THE WEST WING left the air but it's impact remains strong. Martin Sheen and Dule Hill reunite to talk about the birth of the show, favorite moments, its legacy and more in this special conversation taped in Chicago at C2E2. SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod #sponsored Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! UPCOMING EVENTS! 4/10 -- Matt Bomer in Miami -- ⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠⁠ 4/16 -- BEEF (Oscar Isaac, Carey Mulligan, Charles Melton) in NY -- ⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠⁠ 5/5 -- Stanley Tucci in NY -- ⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We didn't know if we could do a political show with a Democratic president with a liberal agenda and sell cars and prescription drugs and insurance and all the things that advertise shows. We just were not sure that that would happen. And that was the greatest surprise and the greatest satisfaction is that it had an appeal across the board to Republicans, Democrats, old, young, rich and poor. It didn't matter. People were intrigued by the show. And I think what it basically taught people is that we're all in this together.

Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Say, I Confused. Today, a very special episode. We are celebrating one of the great shows of all time, the West Wing with the legend that is Martin Sheen and Duley Hill. Thanks, guys.

always for checking out the podcast and joining us on YouTube on Spotify. Remember to hit that subscribe button if you haven't already. This is a really cool one. A live event we taped in Chicago just the other day at C2E2, reuniting two of the key cast members of one of the all-time great shows. As I said, Aaron Sorkins, the West Wing. We'll get to that in just a second. Before this West Wing celebration, I do want to mention, as always, we have a lot of exciting things coming up on Happy, Segg, Confused, including live events, just in a few days. Actually, as I tape this, if you're watching this on April 9th and you happen to be in Miami tomorrow, there might still be some tickets available for April 10th event with

Matt Bowmer at the Miami Film Festival. So if you happen to be watching, you're in Miami, a couple tickets still available, check it out. Then next week, I'm back in New York, talking to the cast of Beef. That's Oscar Isaac Carrey Muggan, Charles Melton, April 16th at 92nd Street, while we are screening some episodes of the series, the new season of beef, which is fantastic. Love it obsessed already. You will be obsessed with this one. May 5th, Stanley Tucci, 90 Second Street, Y, and some other really cool events coming up.

All the links are in the show notes. And as always, really the place for all one-stop shopping, happy say I confused, is our Patreon. Patreon.com slash happy say I confused. You get early access. You get discount codes to our live events. Merch. You can ask a question to our guests. all sorts of fun stuff. Patreon.com slash happy, say I'm confused. If you really want to dive into

all things, Josh Harwood's in Happy Say I Confused, that's the place for you. Okay, a little more context on this conversation today. This is a live event. This is an event taped at C2E2. If you don't know what C2E2 is, it is essentially the Comic Con of Chicago that happens every spring. I've gone the last few years. And this was a real treat because I was a West Wing fan. was obsessed with that show way back when. And we were able to bring together Deulay Hill, who was just a young actor starting out way back when. And of course, Martin Sheen, who was a legend then and is a legend now,

playing the president, Jed Bartlett, in the show. And to see them together on stage with such a treat, they have such a sweet energy together, clearly a strong bond that has been forged through the making of that show. and in the years that have come since. And what an amazing show that has stood the test of time, Aaron Sorkin's writing,

that amazing ensemble, Brad Whitford and Allison Janney, top to bottom of Richard Schiff, the late John Spencer, and anchored, of course, by Martin Sheen. So, and Martin is so eloquent. If you haven't checked out his podcast episode with me a few months back, we did a one-on-one promoting his podcast, the Martin Sheen podcast, which I highly recommend, by the way.

he's a legend for a reason, not only a great actor, but just a great human being, a humanitarian, an activist, and someone who just always speaks truth to power, and especially in these times, is just someone I value listening to always. So it was a real honor to have Martin Sheen on the stage and Dule Hill to talk about one of the all-time great shows. So I take you now to Chicago. This is me, Martin Sheen, Dule Hill, some fan questions towards the end. Great energy in Chicago. thanks for having me, thanks for having us. And if you couldn't be there in person, here it is.

Me, Dewey and Martin, the West Wing, for your ears and eyes right now. Hello again, Chicago. How are you guys doing? How's the day treating you? You good? You good? Yes, my name's Josh Horowitz,

and welcome to this celebration of one of the iconic shows of all time. The West Wing, guys. Come on. The West Wing. It has been, can you imagine it's been 20 years since the West Wing left the airwaves,

but it is still so resonant. Maybe it's more resonant than ever. It stands the test of time for so many reasons. The Aaron Sorkin dialogue, the walk-and-talks, the amazing ensemble, including two amazing actors that are about to join us. Shall we fill up some seats and have a chat? Okay.

Please give it up. For Dewey Hill, Dewey. Come on out. How's everybody doing? All right, all right. All right. And keep it going, guys, because we have the one and only the legendary. It's Martin Sheen, everybody, please.

Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much. You don't start every C2E2 panel like that, do you guys? Come on. We're already off to a great start. Welcome, guys. Welcome to Chicago.

Welcome to C2E2. Thank you. I said it before, 20 years since the West Wing left the air. Does that seem right? Does it feel like 20 years or? 26, but who's counting? Does it feel like a long time ago in your estimation? I mean, when you look back at that period of your life, where does the West Wing, what power

does the West Wing have in your lives and careers? For myself, it was an absolute game changer. I booked the West Wing, I was an unemployed actor looking for work. And I always told... So is I. You know, I always tell the story how I was over, you know, Freddie Prince Jr. and I were good friends. And I was over by Freddy's house playing video games. And I said, Freddie, if I don't get a job soon, I'm either coming to live with you or I'm going back to New Jersey.

Because I do not have any more money. And about maybe three weeks later, I got the audition for the West Wing. I went back in for a callback. And then next thing I knew, I was on the set with Martin Sheen and Roblo and the talented cast. And it was a complete game changer for me. And I'm very grateful for it because that was my first television series. And to be, I guess, brought up under the tutelage of Martin and Allison and John Spencer and Aaron Sorkin and John Wells. It really taught me how to handle myself in the business. Martin especially taught me how to stay connected to my humanity and to just connect with people along the journey.

And that is something that I've taken with me throughout my career, so I'm very grateful for it. Quite a way to start out, a TV series, yeah. For you, Martin, I mean, were you, you had obviously worked on the American president, that great Iron Sorkin's script, rest in peace, the great Rob Reiner, an amazing film. Did that lead directly into the West Wing? There has to be a connection there, it would seem. It did, but I just want to back up for just a minute. I went to an interview about the job, the American president,

and I was sitting in the office of the director, and I noticed a movie poster on the wall, and it was one of my favorite movies, the Princess Bride. And this guy comes out, and I said, you directed that, and that's all we talked about. I left the office. Two weeks later, Rob Reiner called me and asked me to do the American president. So that's all I talk to him about.

But I just want to remember him so very fondly. Dulae and I toured several times in campaigns. He was a dear, dear friend and mentor, and an extraordinary human being besides being a brilliant director. And we were still not able to. truly get our head around what happened, but he lives here. And anyone that ever met him, anyone that's ever worked with him especially, he was the dearest, dearest man. And the most disarming, he was always the same, treated everybody equally. And so I just, whenever I speak publicly,

I want to remember him and very lovingly. It's a huge loss. Yeah. So, the circumstances of you joining this show, for many might know this or many might not, at first it was unclear like whether you were kind of a small role, like was the president going to be like a major part of this series or not? How was it presented to you? Was Bartlett always going to be front and center? Oh, on the contrary. No.

In the pilot, I agreed to do a pilot. And you know, when you do a pilot, you have to sign on for the required seven-year contract. It's true. They got some very good lawyers in these places. And so as long as you agree to that, along the way you can maybe, you know, make some adjustments in your contract, which we occasionally did. But I was asked to just appear in the pilot. And as far as the rest of the season went, I would be a reoccurring character. There was no first family, certainly no first lady, and the show was basically about the staff, and the focus was the staff. And so when I saw the pilot, I knew that the network was going to ask who worked in the Oval Office.

And so I was absolutely certain they were going to come back and say, would you consider being a regular? and I did and very happy about it. But I think it was the pilot that sold people on the fact that you had to include not just the president but the first family. And so, yeah, it was one of the most fortunate things that happened to me in my life and my career. And I'm still, I still find it unbelievable that it actually happened. You too? Oh yeah, I'm still in awe of the effect that the show has had over the years. You know, you get a job, you do a show, but at the time I had no idea that it would last a lifetime.

26 years since we premiered, people still seem to be affected by the show, people still seem to be encouraged by the show. And it really warms my heart that, one, I was able to be a part of it, and then that that work has, you know, stand at the test of time. There's so many reasons for that, obviously. alluded to before, I mean, the dialogue is famously just so impeccable. Aaron Sorkin is one of one. Can you talk to me a little bit about, like, how, did you get scripts far in advance? I mean, there's some meaty, meaty monologues. I think sometimes we would get scripts after the show was air.

I'm just playing. So what's that like for either of you, like you get a script page, is put under your door the day before, the day of, and it's a mouth. Well, the first four years, Aaron was the chief writer. And he had, if he didn't write the script totally himself, he certainly had a hand in all of them. And it was one of the reasons he couldn't continue because it was just overwhelming, wouldn't say? I mean, he just couldn't keep up. And who could, you know?

But when we started initially, I think we all knew. that we had something very, very special, and that it was a long time coming, and it would probably be a long time before anything else like the West Wing would happen again. So we took it very serious, but we didn't know if it was possible for the series to go even one year.

Would you agree? Because we would do 22 episodes a year back then. And the reason was we didn't know if we could do a political, show with a Democratic president with a liberal agenda and sell cars and prescription drugs and insurance and all the things that advertise shows. We just were not sure that that would happen and that was the greatest surprise and the greatest satisfaction is that it had an appeal across the board of Republicans, Democrats, old, young, rich, and poor.

It didn't matter. People were intrigued. by the show. And I think what it basically taught people is that we're all in this together. Yeah. We'll be right back with more Happy, Sad Confused. The war is over and both sides lost. Kingdoms were reduced to cinders,

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you're my favorite president, Martin. He loved the show. He was in his last year when we were in our first year and he was just enamored of the show. He loved it. He would occasionally make suggestions about some scripts maybe.

But he invited us to his department. called the thing with the press? Remember when the correspondent's dinner? We were all invited and we all went. It was the only time I ever went. Have you gone since then with anyone? I went one for, once for President Obama as well. Okay, good. Yeah. There you go. But I will say during that moment

that you're talking about where President Clinton invited us to the correspondence dinner, he wanted to meet the cast before he went out, I guess, to do his presidential thing. So we We were in this back room, I remember, like behind these curtains. And the cast is all there. We're waiting for the president to come in. And finally, President Clinton comes in.

And then Martin sees President Clinton. He does this, like, grand gesture like this. And then President Clinton did the same thing to him. Like, it's seared in my mind because I was like, what is happening with my life right now? Like, I was just looking for a job a few months ago. And this is crazy. You know? But he had that.

much affinity for the show and for Martin. And I never forget that President Clinton always said that this was the closest that you could get to reality without doing a documentary in terms of how the West Wing really works. So it was a truly, truly an honor. His press secretary was our first advisor. Yeah, D.D. Myers. D.D. Myers, right? Sure enough.

And I got to give a shout out to Chris Enscoe, because Chris Enscoe was the personal aid to the president at the time. And he's the one our first D.D. connected us. and we got a chance to sit down and talk, and he really let me know how integral that position is to the movements of the West Wing. It's also great that I'm so happy we have you too because that relationship in particular was a really special one to see in the show

and how it developed. Can you talk about, I mean, I don't know, how the Charlie Bartlett relationship was special to you, working with Martin and vice versa, and how it progressed over the course of the years? I mean, I could say when I first came to this set, I joined the show in the third.

episode. And I mean, I'm coming to this set. It's on Warner Brothers, this historic lot. There's Martin Sheen. There's Rob Lowe. There's Richard Schiff. There's Allison Janney. There's John Spencer. Oh, there's a guy who wrote, you can't handle the truth. I'm like, oh, that's the guy who produced ER. This is crazy. You know, so I'm just like, oh, my gosh. And then I come onto this set, which is a magnificent set. You know, side note, I'm going to do a little side note. I never walked into the Oval Office until we rehearsed the scene of Charlie coming into the Oval Office. So by the time we filmed it, that was really the second time. I rehearsed it, came back in and filmed it, and that's when I really started to take it in. So that really was

my reaction to seeing the Oval Office because I'd never seen it before. But early in the week was when I first met Martin. I see here, okay, here comes Martin Sheen. This is crazy. And he came up to me and he says, you know how you doing? Oh, nice to meet you. He said, do you know, uh, you know, Mary Fishburn? Well, he goes by Lawrence now. Do you know? Yeah, of course. He said, well, I did a movie with him called Apocalypse Now. And, you know, he taught me this handshake and I'm going to teach it to you. And this is the handshake. And to this day, we still do it whenever we see each other.

But it allowed me to realize how personal he was, allowed me to get beyond the, you know, I guess the, what's the word I'm looking for? Like the Martin Sheen of it all. And be like, oh, wow, this is, this is a, this is a, This is a cool guy. Okay. So from there, like, really helped, I think, build the relationship. And then we used to play basketball.

And I don't want to say it, but Martin used to beat me on the basketball court. We play one-on-one right there on Warner Brothers, and I'm still very angry because I don't think I've ever beaten Martin. You know what I mean? So there you go. But things like that would help our jury. We're going to finish this outside today. We're going to play. I think we should bring a basketball hoop in right now, you know?

incidentally go alinae tonight i would imagine it's hard to pinpoint specific episodes or scenes but there are some very memorable ones that people often cite um the two cathedrals episode for you martin i mean that's kind of monologue rant to god it's a pretty powerful powerful moment for you does that does that jump out of you as an especially memorable seen an episode? It was. You know, I was astonished. He had half of it.

This is Aaron Sorkin wrote that episode. And in that monologue, he put almost half of it in Latin. And I asked, I said, why are you putting this in Latin?

And he said, well, I thought I would put it in the language of God. I thought, where did you hear that? But I was an altar boy when I was a child, and I remembered a lot of the Latin, but mostly the prayers, you know, of the Mass. And so I went to my local parish priest,

Monsignor Sheridan, and I asked him to go over it with me. So he, and I realized how far off I was until I started studying with him. But it took me about a week, and I finally got it. And so, yeah, that scene was kind of touchy because it was in the National Cathedral.

You're not even allowed to smoke within a block of that place. And I was smoking in the sanctuary and then stamping it out on the floor. I mean, there are no ashtrays there, of course. But some of the acolytes, the men, and the women who are there all the time, you know, they were not pleased with that at all. And I saw how uncomfortable they were,

but they weren't talking about it, but just their facial expressions. Because when we shot the master, then you have to come in closer and do the coverage. And during that period, which sometimes takes 20 minutes or even a half hour, to relight, you know, a scene. And I was kind of waiting around,

and I started talking to a few of these guys, and I said, you seem uncomfortable with what I'm doing in this scene. They said, well, yeah, we don't normally talk to God like that, but it's the smoking that really we find offensive. And I said, oh, well, okay. I said, but I said, well, why did you okay us doing it in here? And they said, it wasn't our idea. some, I guess some, some agency in the government allowed us in there.

And it's the last, last time that anyone filmed in there in a show, you know. But at any rate, they were very uncomfortable, and I was trying to make them feel, oh, you know, that we weren't desecrating the place or the faith. And just that, I looked up at the top window. You know how you looked like I'm doing right now trying to think of something to say? I'm still trying to think of something to say. And there was a stained glass window at the top part of the cathedral, and it was Job of all things, of all guys.

And so I said, you know what this scene is about? And they said, what do you think? I said, that guy, he's crying out to God. How could you do this to me? on the other hand you know thanks for for keeping me here

kind of you know the way we rage and and then we give thanks and praise but we rage again and we give thanks so it's very human and they kind of got it you know that we were not being

sacrilegious by any stretch of the imagination we were just trying to be really human and the fact that the president of the United States was showing the depth of his humanity his brokenness and he was having it out

with the creator had a very profound effect on a lot of folks when they saw that scene and not the least of which was me but yeah that's a very memorable scene and we forget

that it was Mrs. Lendingham's funeral that's where it started and I just wonder if we could stop and just speaking of Mrs. Landingham Dule had a Duley had a very special relationship with Mrs. Lendingham.

Every time he got into the... Delay is one of the top professional dancers in the United States, if not the world. If any of you have seen him dance. And he used to come in to work, and he would dance when he's waiting, you know, for a scene or waiting, or just waiting around. He dances.

Anywhere he can't, he just starts dancing. Mrs. Lendingham did not approve. Please take it from there. No dancing in the Oval Office. That's not allowed. Right outside the Oval Office was the one place on the set of the West Wing where I could not dance. I would come in and Catherine would be like, Dule. I would just walk on out.

It's funny. Speaking of Mrs. Lendingham's funeral at the cathedral, it brought back to my memory that in between takes, I would go up to the pulpit. And I would, I think I had like, I may have like one line or something to say, but I was up there. And I would go, you did. this, Mr. President, you did this. Just to, you know, lighten the mood a little bit, you know. It was a heavy scene.

Oh, my God. I know you did this, Mr. President. He came into the church and said, who's in the box? Virtually. I will say, I always say about the West Wing is that it was a drama, but I used to say, you know, we could go back and do this show as a half-hour comedy. because there are so many personalities on a set that we would laugh so much off camera. It would be a real comedy show.

Where are you guys at? I know you get this question probably virtually every day. It's been brought up. A reboot, a continuation, et cetera. It seems like, I don't know, it seems like that's not happening. I mean, have you wanted it to happen over the years? Like, where is your heads at right now in terms of continuing the West Wing? And what would it look like in 2026?

We're in a different environment, aren't we? I mean, I'll let you answer as well, but I'm like, for myself, I think some things are better left alone. I just think it's really told his story. The second part of it, I will say, is when you watch the West Wing now, it doesn't seem archaic. So many things are still so current, which is a testament to the brilliance of Aaron Sorkin and all the creative forces behind the show, but also a conviction to our society because we've not moved further enough along the road. So I really don't know how you take that and make it new when that still is so relevant today. But at the bottom of it, I will say, if Aaron's Sorking Camp with an idea, then I think we would all be there. Simple as that.

There you go. Here, here. He went to law school. Yeah, what happened to Charlie in the last 20 years? What do you think? How's he doing? How's he doing? I think he's doing quite all right for himself.

I would guess that he's working either in government or right outside of government. government. You know, I would say he's probably going the lane of Melissa Fitzgerald, who plays Carol on our show. She actually is involved in real work outside of, like in government now. She works with a nonprofit. Yeah, the All Rise. Yeah, All Rise, which is the drug court, basically, you know, the National Association of Drug Court professionals. It's under a different name now under the present administration. Nevertheless, people are still being served in drug court. I assume most of you know what that is.

Yes or no? Okay, good. But as far as doing, are you talking about like a rehash of the... Yeah, what's your attitude about returning to the character, seeing West Wing come back in some form? Well, even before it went off the air, I was already retired. This is true.

I'm not getting any closer to getting back there, you know. Somebody told me one day not too long ago, you ought to run for president. I said, I couldn't even walk for president. But I think that Aaron Sorkin has kept a focus, and if he ever went back or decided to do a West Wing, I don't know if it could be any better than the one he did. I honestly don't know because it was so brilliant.

He was so absolutely magnificent. It's, you know. Hard to imagine it any better. And you know, it's like, okay, what would be the purpose of doing a new one when you can still see the old one that's really still, as, as DeLay was just saying, it's as relevant today as it was then, if not more so. And you still get called Mr. President to this day, I would imagine. Do people say that to you? Well, I'm often referred to as the former acting president of the United States. It's very strange that whenever I go to see Martin, he always tells me when the president stands, you know, so he likes to like walk around just standing up all the time so that none of us get to sit down.

I'm just, I'm just playing out. You know, you may be referring to that scene. I don't know if somebody would remember that episode where the lady wouldn't. Okay. And I said that to her after I just bashed her to, you know, to this horrible level of, what would you say? what did I do? I humiliated her after she tried to humiliate me, of course, but I won in the end. She deserved to hear somebody say. I, yes. But when she, I said, you know, when the president everybody stands, she stood up and I said, thank you. They cut it. And I, do you know that?

I was, every take I'd say, thank you. And they said, no, don't say thank you. And I'm saying, no, this president says, thank you. So when I saw the show, the thank you was cut. And I asked, I said, why did you cut the thank you? He said, because that was Martin, that was not Bartlett. I said, okay. Did either of you

enjoy or dread the long walk and talks? Because that's a challenge for an actor. That's a lot of dialogue, and there's a lot of choreography involved too. Maybe your dance background helped with that. I don't know. The only time I really dreaded it when it was when I was at the end of the walking talk

and I had to come and say, here you go, Mr. President. You know, because if I come back and I say, oh my gosh, you don't want to do that. Because they have to do the whole thing all over again. And you had one line to say. So that's the hardest part. But beyond that, I actually enjoyed it because it kind of made it even more like theater.

You had to do it. You have to get it all in this one take. And I knew how beautiful those shots would turn out. So I was actually excited to be a part of those moments. That became like a trademark of our show. But it was also a very interesting technique because if you shoot a walk and talk, you don't cover it. You don't have to if everybody hits their mark and remembers their lines, which was rare enough. But if we did, that was it.

And sometimes it took, we'd do six, eight, nine, ten takes sometimes. But you didn't have to cover it, which usually. took hours and hours to cover. And I just want to mention, my favorite walk-and-talk scene was with DeLay, where we had a scene where we left the Oval and were going somewhere. I can't remember where, but you remember the scene where I was saying, oh, good to see you, Joe, and I was Harry, oh, Mike's all the best. Say hello to Sally. Hey, how are you doing, Ben? All the best. Yeah, and at the end of it, after this five-minute walk, I asked Dule, and let's play it. Charlie, did I get any of them right? I don't know what my line would be. No, sure, but no, sir, you got close on a

couple. I think that probably might have been a reflective of us on set a lot of times. You know, my favorite walk, I'll talk about my favorite one, is the one we were at the hotel. I think we filmed it at the Biltmore in Los Angeles, and we had to come all the way downstairs and all the way out to the car. That one, for me, I enjoyed it, like seeing it, but it was pretty nerve-wracking for me because I didn't have much to say. And it's like, it's so much moving in choreography. It's like, don't mess it up. Do not mess it up. More happy, say, confused coming up. I'm Mandy and I'm Melissa, and this is Moms and Mysteries. We're two Florida moms obsessed with true crime, from infamous cases like Ellen Greenberg to shocking

Florida stories like the Dan Markell killing. With 55 million downloads, we bring you new deep dives every Tuesday and Thursday. Listen to Moms and Mysteries on Apple Podcasts. Listen to moms and podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Goodbye, Kyle! Did the sound of those words call to you like Pavlov's dog? Then you might enjoy our podcast, Turtle Time. Every week you can join me, Riley Hamilton, and my co-host, Amy Scarletta, as we cover the most pressing Bravo news and dig into the new episodes to answer important

questions like, who the hell is Adrian Maloof in this world? Listen to Turtle Time on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. new episodes every Wednesday and Friday. The ensemble's amazing from top to bottom. Like, I mean, like having someone like Elizabeth Moss, who is like, you know, your contemporary, obviously. Did that help? I mean, you kind of like, she had been acting since she was a kid too.

But like having someone as a contemporary to kind of go through it with, was that helpful for you, do you way? I mean, honestly, it was helped. Like, I just enjoyed being around everybody. I love working with Elizabeth, but everyone was so warm and welcoming to me than from the beginning, it truly felt like a family. I felt safe and it really was about sitting back and learning. I'll take a little pivot.

I know there was a scene with Martin and John Spencer in the Oval Office, and I believe Laura Ennis was directing. And it might have been, what's the title of the show? Let Bartlett be Bartlett or something like that, or Bartlett for America? And you were going at it. Something had happened, and you and John came in and they were really going at it. And I'm like, man, these are two heavyweights.

These cats are really good. And Lord just kept working with you all and peeling the layers back and eventually got to just a conversation that was so grounded. And it touched me so much because I was in the scene. I didn't say anything in the scene, but I was in the scene. And it was really one of the most viable moments for me on the set of the West with me because I just sat there and got a chance to learn. But that happened to me so often on the show, just being around Martin and Allison and all these, you know, all these guest actors coming in. It really was a gift that has been a gift of a lifetime. Yeah, but imagine you bring that.

that to something like Syke when, you know, you've learned from, thank you, thank you, from seeing the number one and number two on the call sheet, and then you become that guy. Oh, so much of what I brought to Syke in terms of how I dealt with myself on the set came from what I learned from Martin and John and everybody else on this show.

A little side note, Mrs. Landingham, they did a flashback episode. I think in the two cathedrals, I think, where they show Mrs. Lendingham, a younger version of Mrs. Sunday came, and that is our Christian Nelson, who plays Chief Vic on site. All connected. There it is.

Yep. You know, speaking of Elizabeth Moss, when she first arrived, she was a little nervous of her first episode, and John Spencer went up to her and he said, you will be our daughter. And that was it. She's done all right for herself. She's done quite alright for herself. Taking a step back for a second from the West Wing, you guys both have. of like Comic-Con cred, C2E2 cred.

I mean, we mentioned, you've been to like Comic-Con's over the years for Syke, of course. Talk to me a little bit about, like, I don't know, did you grow up into genre, comics, any of this world, or did you kind of discover it along the way, or what, do I? I'm more discovered it along the way. You know, I was, my family is from Jamaica. I was, I know about Bob Marley.

Bob Marley, soccer and rum punch. Not that I was drinking rum punch, I'm just saying. But I kept up into it along the way, especially during the psych years because James Roday was such a, you know, he's so much into all of the genre stuff. That's where I'll start to really find a connection to it with. And for you, Martin, I mean, all you have to say is with great power comes great responsibility and this crowd will worship you. I mean, playing Uncle Ben and Spider-Man, did you realize how, I mean, everybody knows Spider-Man. Everybody I think knows Uncle Ben, but did you know, like, how powerful? a figure that was in the comic book world when you took on that role?

Clearly I did not. I had never seen a Spider-Man before or since. But I'll tell you what, I was speaking at the Loyola University graduation, and I was being introduced, and the fellow that was introducing me named all these credits, the West Wing, Apocalypse Now, Badlands. endless credits, and they just sat there. And then he said, he played Uncle Ben and the Spider-Man, and they almost stood up. So what am I missing? I mean, to be fair, you've also got one of the great Stephen King adaptations on your resume, too.

The Dead Zone's a pretty great. Oh, God. A different kind of politician than Jed Bartwood, a little bit. Well, not anymore. Yeah. Yeah. We're just going to let that hang there. Enough said.

It was great fun playing that lunatic, but you don't really conceive that it could happen. Duh. So, any questions from the crowd? We do actually have an audience that I'm sure has some questions. I think we have some microphones out there. Are people wind up? Yeah, let's go ahead. Let's start over here.

My name is Christine. I'm from Oakland, and I became a new mom the same time that the West Wing was starting. So I was very surprised that I got so much parenting advice from your show, watching Mrs. Leningham to help develop Jed to become the man that he became, and then watching Jed develop Charlie Young to become the man, and then your own daughters. So what was the most surprising thing of the West Wing that brought to your own lives personally? I mean, really, it allowed me at that time to realize that people in government are people just like you and me, that they are just people. And that's something I didn't realize leading up to that point because they seemed like, oh, that senator so-and-so and president so-and-so.

All of these pillars, these buildings, they're all inhabited by. people who are just like you and me. And that's something that I really start to connect with me that if I want to be a part of the solution, I have to engage myself. I have to take steps because that's how I become a part of the process. And I didn't understand that. It didn't really truly connect with me until I did the West Wing. I would have to confirm that from my part as well. I didn't realize that our government is basically run by people and that, you know, all the the cabinet posts and the president himself

change every four years, but basically these are the people that serve us and all those agencies and that's what's so heartbreaking now, as I speak, that they're being diminished and that the people in them are being dismissed.

And that's why today is such an important day in the life of our country's future because the the people have to remind the government that they're there for us we are not there to serve them so i think that i think that the i think that the i think that the west wing really accentuated that that how important those people were and here's another thing which you may not know is that most of the storylines in the west wing came from actual story stories

that were given to us by administrations going all the way back to Eisenhower, to Harry Truman. And one of them was one of my favorite episodes, and when Charlie found a letter from a little boy in Brooklyn, I guess it was. Remember the episode? And it fell in those days. We used to call it the dead letter box. Remember? Did you get my letter?

No. It was in the dead letter box for some reason or other. A little boy in Brooklyn, New York, back in the 1930s, wrote a letter to President Franklin Roosevelt asking him to please help his father find a job. That letter finally reached the right house in Jimmy Carter's administration. So it was a real story.

And then he found the guy, and they brought the little boy, was now an elderly fellow. And Charlie, in that episode, finds the guy. You want to just mention about that? I remember, and I think it was out. Was that the one where Bill Cobb?

I believe played the person, but I do remember that. Yeah, yeah, I remember that episode. So that was a real story. And I love that about the West Wing, that so many of the stories were taken from real life and brought up to date, kind of, you know. Thank you. You have a follow-up?

I just think the series helped inspire activism for an entire generation. So thank you. Thank you so much. You want to go here? Over here, yep. As if it were written by Aaron Sorkin, that was a perfect segue to my question. But before I asked it, I wanted to say, sitting here,

I can't help but think of the episode Arctic Radar and how Josh admonished the intern for and described the difference between being a fan and they're being a fetish. And I feel like he would call this a fetish, right? And like comparing episodes, comparing people. As he said, I'm fine with that. So we'll be fine with that. Anyway, I was a senior in high school when the show started.

And there was a companion website, NBC, like, it was the beginning of this kind of thing. They were kind of innovative in the way they used digital media. And I wonder if you have any recollection of the fact that, like you're talking about, each episode would have information on the NBC website where you could go and learn about the real life things that happened. And for me, it informed much of what I know about politics currently. in college I wrote a paper and accidentally used a West Wing character's foreign leaders name

repeatedly. Interestingly, the professor was like, I love the show, it's fine. But it was such a huge impact for me, and I wonder if you guys remember that at all or developing that or whether ever made it to the actors. I wasn't, I mean, I've heard about the, it was called a website, wasn't it, at that time? Yeah. I'd heard about it, but I still don't, if I had a computer, I would not know how to turn it on. I heard you say that recently. Yeah, it's absolutely true, so I'm going to let my friend respond.

I was not aware of it at the time. I do know that they had a curriculum that used to go into the schools, but I was not aware of the website. Yeah. It's funny. It's amazing to me sometimes, though, how you do something. You don't realize the domino effect that you have, and we're telling these stories, and I'm very thankful for it,

but you don't realize that why it inspires people along the way, which is why I love coming to events like this, just to see the fruits of the work over time. I think if each of us always do our part in our existence, then we can make the world a better place. And I often say if I can get a billion people to move a billion stones, then we can move a mountain. Absolutely.

And the fact that, you know, it has us being on set for all those hours informed how you look at government and politics, and then that will inform how you move throughout the world and so many other people, that's how we all stay connected, and we all do our part to hopefully move the ball forward. Yeah.

Thanks. Yeah, I would imagine both of you have encountered people that have said to you, I'm in politics. I'm in this field partially because I watched the West Wing. A tremendous amount of people have responded. And today, even a lot of people are coming when we're signing things and things from the West Wing and they're telling us the effect that it had on them. Yeah.

Amazing. Let's go over here. Yeah. Yeah. Hi. Yeah, you had such a big effect I moved to D.C., so that's one thing. But hi, my name's Zoe.

I'm dressed as Zoe Bartlett. Amazing, amazing. So I wanted to give a shout out, of course. Have you been on my life, Zoe? It's been so long since you've been together. I know. I've called you in so long. Sorry.

I still don't like that French dude you were with, man. I mean, come on. Good call. Good call, yes. Don't make it weird, man. Come on. He's right, so. No, I just have a question for my big sister.

she introduced me to West Wing and to Syke. So for her, I wanted to ask Mr. Dule Hill, do you think Charlie and Gus would be friends, or how would they get along? Oh, I think Gus would annoy Charlie. I think at first they might be like, oh, wow, you're a brilliant young man. Oh, you're a brilliant young man.

But the more that they talked, I think Charlie would be like, I got to get away from this dude because, and have you seen his friend too? No, that's not a good combination. Thank you. Let's go up here. Hello.

CJ was always one of my favorite characters. I was a journalism major. I wanted to know what it was like working with Allison Janney if you have any favorite scenes or any favorite stories of her. I can answer it. I mean, I love Allison Janney. To this day, I just love her so dearly. She is such a beautiful soul, a shining light.

As talented as she is, she is so humble and just engaging with people. I love her to the ends of the earth. really, really do. There's a scene that she did. And she had, you know, we got scripts late oftentimes. And there was a scene that was being rewritten. And it was her in Anna Devere Smith. And she was a long walk and talk with her and Anna Devere Smith.

And she received the scene. And she said, okay, give me a few minutes. And she went to her trail and she worked on it. And she came back and she delivered this performance. And I was like, how do you do that? you know and it was from the woman of kamar if i'm not mistaken and it's the one where they do the walk and talk and at the end she turns to anna diva smith and she goes they're beating their women they're beating their women and then she walks out into the press briefing room and she becomes

the press secretary when i saw that i just it well say that scene the two cathedrals scene and a Richard Schiff in Excelsius Sadeo. Those were the scene that really let me know, like, wow, like the bar of what you can do with this art form of acting, how you can really embody something and be so powerful with your vessel. So she's a great inspiration for me,

and I love her dearly. Oh, God. I don't know if Dulae knows this, but there was a poll taken by an organization that wanted to know who in the show the audience were most impressed by and hands down it was Allison. Did you know about this?

I tried to keep it from you. I mean, yeah, I'm very disappointed. I'm like, wow, really? No, that's not surprising to me at all. She, yes, we all adored her, and we loved having scenes with her. She had this image of being so straight and bright, but she was the funniest person, bar none among us, with the possible exception of Brad Whitford, who looked at you and you started laughing. But she was, we adore it.

Somebody told us a story. She was doing an interview about the show. and the reporter commented, well, you know, there's no love interest really in the Westman. Oh, yes, there is, she said. And the reporter said, between who? And she said between John and Martin, of course. Thank you. Thank you.

Let's go over here. Yeah. Hi. Hi. I just want to take a second to shout out what I imagine for most of us was government teachers because that's how I got introduced to you. And government teachers have a very... difficult job, but you actually made that job easier, I think. So shout out to the government

teachers. Most definitely. Most definitely. Thank you very much. My question is, as we know, Aaron Sorkin's dialogue is top-notch, and we know you all got it very late. 26 years later, which of those scenes really stands out to you that you can, you know, do with a drop of a dime, or what has stuck with you? One of my favorite episodes, and because I didn't get many opportunities for comedy, one of my favorite episodes was the turkey. Yes.

But the way it was written and how, and how I'm trying to pretend I'm somebody else and I'm getting the information as Dulae and Richard are scribbling it on and handing it to me. And watching that, I was actually laughing at myself. I thought, wow, I should do more comedy. I'm too dramatic.

You should do. I've got to lighten up. But I love that episode. My favorite episodes, as I think you know, was in Excells this day, the Christmas show, the first Christmas show. And it led towards the funeral at Arlington with the former Marine who died homeless on the streets of Washington.

Do you remember that show? Oh, yeah. Okay, good, yeah. It was the most moving show. It's hard to watch without just weeping, because it's still happening today, of course. But the fact that he was a Korean War, veteran. My brother was in Korea as a Marine and he was never the same after his time there.

But I just felt his presence and his gratitude that we were celebrating this man's life, even though it was too late, really, and we have a tendency to do that, unfortunately. So that's one of my favorite episodes, is that we honored a veteran. veteran who is otherwise going to be discarded, you know. Do you any, yes. I don't really have much to add to that because that is one of my favorite episodes as well. I mean, Richard's performance in that and the entire cast was phenomenal, but that episode really touched me. And of course, I have to go back to two cathedrals because it was just brilliant work.

It was absolutely brilliant work. I always say I can't believe that Martin didn't get an Emmy Award for that season alone. that episode alone, you know. As you always say, it was Passover. Every time we would go to the award shows, Martin would say, oh, this is Passover. This is when they passed over to me and give it to the other guy. Are those other guys here today?

I don't think so. Michael Chickles is here. Yeah, Michael Chickles is here. Damn it. So he's actually. All right, that was a good show, too. The Shield. Okay. Real quick, though, about the government teachers.

my daughter in university, she goes to Northwestern out here. Yeah, and she was in her constitutional law class, and next thing you know, they're showing an episode of the West Wing. And she's like, that's my dad. So it's still being used today, which is pretty wild for the mind. Let's go over here. Yeah, please. First of all, go cats. Hey!

Thank you so much for being here. I'm thinking a lot about the state of the world. I'm really just, I want to ask people who have a lifelong career of activism, how you keep your fires lit and how you stop yourself from burning out in this. I mean, there's a quote, what was it, Dr. King says the moral arc of the universe is long, but it bends towards justice. That does truly inspire me. It does inspire me because it's not always what is right in front of me. It's where we are going. As I look at the nation today, we are in a terrible. place, but if we look back at the totality of our nation, this is not the worst we have ever been.

We've done a lot of terrible things within this country. We've done a lot of magnificent things. But, I mean, the fact that I'm sitting here is showing you that we've come a long way from where we are. And I trust that the goodness of people within our nation will eventually break on through. Another thing I always say is just beyond the storm clouds, the sun is always shining. as a matter of fact it goes back to the time we were out there with Rob and it was me, you and a few of us we had taken off I think out of Nashville

and our Memphis and the storm was like raging and eventually we got in the air and we got into the clouds and the clouds you know whenever you're in the clouds you don't know which way is up which way is down but eventually we kept on flying and we kept going a little bit higher and they saw a peeking of a ray at light at first and then when we

got above the clouds it was so peaceful so beautiful up there that I said I said look at this when we were on the tarmac We couldn't imagine in our mind's eye that just beyond the storm clouds, the sun was always shining. I said, if we could hold on to this as we are going through our personal struggles in life, then maybe we can find encouragement to make one more step, to go a little bit further along the way. And my grandmother would always say, later will be greater. So I truly believe that even now in the midst of the storm clouds that are rising above our nation,

that we the people, if we hold on to each other, if we see the humanity of each other, if we stay connected to each other, we keep putting one foot in front of the other, and we each pick up our stone, then collectively we can move the mountain and get to the point where the sunshine brights again. That's how I stay encouraged along the way. We're almost out of time, but Martin, I feel like I'd love to hear you weigh in on that. Let's end this panel with a little bit of hope. Deulay did a great job, but what do you got for us, Martin? Well, I couldn't do it any better than that.

Honestly, it's about our humanity. and we really, particularly in times like these, which we have never really had to relate to before, we realize how valuable our relationships with each other are. Are we looking in on our neighbor? Are we concerned about somebody who's being taken away? Are we concerned about the level of cruelty and violence and chaos? That's coming from a very, very dark place.

I think that when they assemble in that, I used to call it that sacred chamber, the cabinet room, because in that room, there's a fellow sitting in that room whose father and uncle helped pull the world away from a nuclear destruction in that room during the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962.

who Bobby and John Kennedy literally pulled the world away from nuclear disaster. So it's possible that we could have people serving us that are conscious of being in touch with the best part of their humanity, and that is compassion to reach out to somebody. I say, we've got to understand that everything has a consequence. You can't mistreat people. You can't mistreat a country. You can't destroy a government without consequences.

We're seeing a response to that just today, nonviolently, with people who care enough to risk calling our country to its best part. This group in Washington is not a reflection of who we are. They sit across the table and see the worst part of themselves on the other side. There's no one in that cabinet that they want to be. And I promise you that secretly they despise one another because there's no heroes among them. There's no one that they see across.

I want to be like him. I want to be like her. They don't exist. And so they look to us, I promise you today, every one of those cabinet officials, plus the old man and all his staff are looking what's happening in the street because that's the voice of the people for the people.

and they're going to get a very loud and clear message about what it means to be human. It means to care for one another, bottom line. Just care for one another. Well, I do want to say very quickly, too. I can't let this time go away.

Have you heard of the Martin Sheen podcast? Yes. If you have not, please check it out because really truly, you look for little things of inspiration. The stories that Barton shares, the poetry that he reads, the,

consider this, these one line things that he puts out there, are so, they talk about the past, but they're so relevant for where we are today. You just got to find little things that you can do to encourage yourself along the way. Sometimes I'll just be in my car

and I'll play an episode. And somehow, when I'm finished with the episode, I do feel better about the world than what I see on the news. So things like that, I think is what we could do to find encouragement along the way. Thank you.

Thank you both for speaking so eloquently. Yes, Martin. Do you mind if I do that? Please. We ready to end this? We got to end it. Okay. I'll tell you what.

Okay. Delay just mentioned our podcast. We end our podcast every show with a prayer from Tagore for our nation. Do you want to do it here? Yes. Okay. We are called to lift up this nation and all its people. to that place where the heart is without fear and the head is held high, where knowledge is free,

where the world has not been broken up into fragments by narrow domestic walls, where words come out from the depths of truth and tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection, where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way into the dreary desert sands of dead habit, where the mind is led forward by thee into ever wide, thought and action into that heaven of freedom, dear Father. Let our country awake. Amen. Dewey Hill Martin Sheen.

Thank you, Chicago. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by just. Oh, gosh. Welcome and enter if you dare.

Hi, I'm Hallie Keeper. And I'm Alison Libby, and together we're the hosts of Ruined, a scary movie podcast where Hallie tells me the grisly details of a haunting new horror film each week. Whether you're a terror hound like me or a scaredy cat like Allison, we've got so many thrills, chills, and obviously kills to share with you in every episode. It's the podcast that I'll have you saying, that was so funny. I should not have listened to it at night with all the lights off. From the greats like The Exorcist and Poldergeist to modern classics such as hereditary and get-out,

to the freakiest new releases like A Quiet Place and Terrifier, we ruin them all and will leave you howling, mostly from laughter, sometimes because you're turning into a werewolf. Ooh, listen along as I try and guess the movie's twist, predict who will survive, and answer the hardest question of all. What would you do? So please listen to new episodes of Ruined every Tuesday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. And whatever you do, we're begging you, please keep it spooky.