Happy Sad Confused - Tim Robbins

Episode Date: September 3, 2026

Tim Robbins joins the podcast! Tim and Josh have a career-spanning conversation about THE SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION, his experience on HOWARD THE DUCK, why we didn’t see him in TOP GUN: MAVERICK, working with Clint Eastwood on MYSTIC RIVER, Tim’s new website that will be sharing never-before-seen footage from Tim’s career, and more! SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! UPCOMING EVENT! 10/13 -- Joe Manganiello in NY -- Tickets here: https://www.92ny.org/event/joe-manganiello-with-josh-horowitz-bloodlines Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I knew the first day that the duck was miscast. In the comic book, he's a rough, crunched up guy, guy. Yeah. It was smoking a cigar and trying to get chicks. And what I saw on set that day was a cute-ass puppet. Too cute. Too cute. Too cute. Not dirty enough. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy. Sad, Confused begins now.

Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the show, we have Tim Robbins in the house. Of course, an Academy Award winner for Mystic River, a great filmmaker. He directed Bob Roberts, Dead Man Walking, Cradle Will Rock. He's starring in Silo right now. And yes, we go all the way back. Top Gun Days, Howard the Duck, Hudsucker Proxy, Shawshank Redemption, and more.

Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out the podcast. This is a fun one if you've lived through these decades of great films since the 90s and even the 80s, then you know and love Tim Robbins' work like I do, and it was a real treat to have him on. He's always been outspoken in the best possible way. He's honest. He's unfiltered, and he's got the stories. So I think this is going to be a conversation you guys are going to enjoy as much as I did. Quick reminder before we get into my conversation with Tim. As always, check out our Patreon. If you like what I do, support us over there, patreon.com slash happy. Say I confused early access to all our episodes, bonus content. You can ask a question to our guests and more.

Also have a live event coming up, I should say, October 13th, Joe Mangonello, one of our favorites on Happy SAC Confused. We're talking about his entire career and his new memoir. That's going to be at the 90s 2nd Street Y in New York City. The link to tickets is in the show notes. Check it out. October 13th, New York City, me and Joe. Okay, no real further ado. You know Tim Robbins' work.

I don't need to list off the credits, but this is a great conversation. We plug silo, but we also talk about, I'm very excited about this. He's got his own website. Tim Robbins.com has. just launched by the time you're watching or listening to this. And it's got tons of archival materials from his career as an actor, a director, a playwright, a director in the theater, all the stuff he's done. A musician, he's done a lot. And we cover a lot in this hour. I think you guys are going to dig this. Here's me and Mr. Tim Robbins. Enjoy. Tim Robbins, you're on the podcast. Thank you for doing this, man.

I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I feel like I've trapped you because whether you know it or not, I'm going to be talking about some of my my favorites today. Okay. We're going to, can you guess like what, what the films that I'm going to peg me? Like, look, take me in. You want me to do your job to you? Tell me about Shawshank. No, no, it's not going to be, I mean, I do want to know about Shawshank.

No, but go, go, go a different route. I'm not that simple. I'm not that basic. All right, good. Let's get deep. I'm Howard the Duck. I'm Hudson, Roxy, all the way. I'm that guy.

Okay. Okay. Um, I did see you recently for a nanosecond at comic A nanosecond. A nanosecond. I was. You were the surprise guest on our panel for Silo. I remember.

How are you with that kind of, I mean, you've had every kind of experience. You've been on the Oscar stage, you've been in the Comic-Con stage. Where does like a Comic-Con experience? The first time I'd been on Comic-Con. Is that right? Yeah, I had done an appearance in New York Comic-Con, but never the big one in San Diego. That was pretty cool. Yeah.

Yeah. Were you a genre kid? Like, where did you grow up with, like, that stuff? Like, it was a different time, obviously. It wasn't celebrated. in the same way. Yeah, there wasn't much of that happening. The genre at my time was like paranoid thrillers.

Right. Right. But around my first year of college was Star Wars came out, and that was a huge deal for us. Do you remember that as like a defining moment? Oh, loved it. Yeah, yeah. Went to the theater a few times.

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And that was also, I think, maybe the same year, or the year before was, Saturday night fever. That was a big film. Yeah. A big cultural moment. I love how these cultural moments have changed. Yeah, not for the better necessarily. They used to be organic. Now they force them down your throat. This is going to be a cultural moment whether you like it or not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going to force you to go see this crap movie.

It's going to be started. As someone that's covered movies for 20 years. I mean, on the different side of it, we can both tell some war stories about how things have changed. I mean, well, there's a lot of things that have changed. There are some things that have changed for the better. Yeah. You can tell long-form stories now, 10-hour stories. Yeah. That's cool.

The democratization. I mean, you can with less, make more. Whether it's going to be seen by folks, that's a whole other matter, perhaps. Well, this is why I'm doing my website. There it is. Let's get this. Let's get into it. Okay, so I have a ton of stuff.

Yeah. I did three movies in the 90s, Bob Roberts, Dead Man Walking, and Cradle War Rock. And I'm proud of all three of those movies. And then I took some time off because I had kids and I wanted to be around more. When I direct, I kind of check out. And so I stopped directing for a while. And then when I started wanting to direct again about seven or eight years after that, The landscape had changed a bit.

Right. And the kinds of movies that I wanted to do were not, you know, people weren't lining up to give me money to do them. So I started just doing things on my own. Yeah. And so I've got quite a few projects that I've put on the shelf or in cardboard boxes. And about a couple years ago, I just started getting everything out. I hired some people to help me do an arc.

And I realized I've got a lot of things, a lot of movies and short movies and interviews and documentaries that I have. And I'm working on doing final edits on all of them right now. So over the course of the next year, I'm going to be releasing my own material. Because I mean, like to know a little bit about you and I know I think more than a little, like you are not the kind of person that kind of like waited for the job and then like went on to the next job. It seems like you were always creating, whether it was your own theater company, whether it was directing your own material, writing. So these were the side pursuits that just

kind of kept you alive, kept you engaged with the world. It kept me in a, it kept me engaged completely. I would go from project to project to project. So if I was acting in a movie, probably at the end of that movie, I was headed off to direct something that I'd written at the actors gang so there's also those plays that I did over that course of time that I've filmed them all you know filmed live performances yeah they're not films but they are documents of what I was doing creatively is it must be very surreal for you I'm sure some of these things like you don't even real remember actually I mean you remember making them in some capacity but they must

ignite a lot of memories of like where you were at the time what happens is you go from project to project and you you leave it behind because you're working in a new genre or a new milieu and you go full on into that. So in leaving it behind, you forget its vitality. Yeah. And so this has been a great couple of years going through my files because it's reminded me of some of the things that I did and they're quite good, I think.

And until people tell me it sucks, I'm going to say they're pretty good. I'm going to go with pretty good. But also, it's a snapshot in time of where you were at, where the world was at. And it's a marker. It's like you're a different person. You're a different version of the same person. But like that I never stopped doing the material that I wanted to do. Yeah.

And the rare thing about my films in the 90s was they were all autonomous. Yep. I had final cut on all three of those films. And so everything you see, Incredible Rock and Dead Man Walking and Bob Roberts. Good or bad, that's me. It's me. Yeah. And that was the inhospitable environment.

I came back to after taking seven or eight years on. It's been a rude awakening a little bit. There was no more. Wait, guys, wait. No more artistic autonomy. Wait, you love Bob Roberts. You love Dead Man Walking. Oscars.

What happened? I didn't get that way. I just react to the cultural landscape and you move on and you do what you want to do. Yeah. And if that means your audience is going to be tens of thousands instead of millions, that's okay. Because it's all about genuine creative freedom. Yeah. And if you have that, then people can catch up.

Yeah. It's okay. I'm not impatient. I know that from personal experience, I know that movies can come out and not do well and then be considered by everyone to be their favorite movie, which is Shawshank. I know that Bob Roberts, when it came out, didn't do a lot of business. But it became a cultural landmark. So I have faith that time is my best friend.

Okay, so to go all the way back, when you came in here, I said immediately, like, one thing that I do feel connected with you on, and I always feel connected when there's another person that was raised in New York City, because some people always look at us like, really? Like, how did you, like you were raised by wolves? Like, how did you actually come out semi-well adjusted? If you survive, you come out semi-well adjusted. It makes us stronger, right? Some don't survive. We survived. And you're still a New Yorker to a degree. I'd spend a lot of time here, right? Yes. I mean, do you feel like, you know, in what ways did the city shape you as a artist, as a human? Well, let me start with the negative. I was mugged on 14th Street.

No. I wish, I was, but, yes. But I was also, one of the negative things about New York City, and I'm not sure if this is true of all cities, but it could be. There's an awful lot of the voice that says, yeah but I've got a great idea yeah but yeah but so and so did this and so and so and so did this and there's a there's a kind of an energy that will try to get you to not feel as excited about your idea as you had when you had it and what I found when I moved out to the West Coast and went to UCLA was that

People were responding to my ideas with, yeah, let's do it. Let's just go for it. Let's try it. And that is the difference between a kind of ensconced elite and the spirit of the people that crossed over those mountains and created a new society. Now, there's negatives on both of those too, of course. But there's, but the spirit of invention, the spirit of trying something new, I felt was more welcome on the West Coast. Yeah. And I think that's how Silicon Valley happened.

I think that's why Hollywood has, for, did have for many years something to say culturally. And RIP. We were so close. Because there were inventors and gamblers and rogues that went out there to make art in a different way. Yeah. And so that's something I had to overcome leaving New York. However, New York left me also with a tenacity of purpose. Nothing's going to stop me. Right. I am, you can say no to me a million times and I don't hear that word. Yeah. I'm going to keep going. And I think that's a combination of growing up in New York and having parents that were from the West.

Right. That idea, both my parents, my mom and my dad met in Los Angeles at UCLA in the marching band. My dad's family was pioneers that settled in Washington State, in eastern Washington state. So the idea that no is not a word that I register. in pursuits of creative endeavors. So I registered in appropriate social situations. You can start to toggle it on and off. So you allude to this, like, so you come out of UCLA,

and it seems like, you know, you are energized, you're excited by the world, this is where the actors gang comes out of those years, right? Yeah. What are the, like, the, was there a founding principle by which you and your collaborators created the actors gang that has helped? true that has stayed true all these years? Yeah. It was based at the time in the spirit of punk rock.

The idea that there's a new way of speaking, there's a new way of reaching audiences. Don't get up on stage unless you have a lot of energy. Don't try to tell a story on stage unless it's something important enough to talk about. That is still with us at the Actors' Gang. Over the years, we've gotten much more discipline, much more of a collective way of working

that has evolved over the years and gotten better and better in my opinion. But the original impetus was to tell stories no one else was telling, and to do so in a way that's theatrical and entertaining, and that the way to talk about our culture and our world is not through lecturing or intellectual pursuits, but through vaudeville and popular culture and cartoons and the idea that as long as the behavior is truthful, it can be extreme.

How did those sensibilities jive with like the Hollywood world that you found yourself in, in like, so you start to do some television and you do saying elsewhere, do love boat, right of passage, you do all that to the TV, and then you start to do film. And we're 40 years after 86, which is a big year for you. You've got top gun that year. You've got the aforementioned Howard the Duck, which I will have 12 questions about. But like, did you find like, I don't know, the top guns of the world, the Bruckheimer's of the world, was fitting your sensibilities as a young artist?

No, but they were paying really well. And it allowed me, it allowed me to. produce theater. Yeah. It was it was a lot easier and more fun to do and more creative to do than delivering pizzas. Yeah. And so I, I, when I understood that, I started to appreciate it more. Yeah. I didn't get a job for quite a while, auditioning for about, I don't know, six, seven months of auditions. I didn't get anything. Because I probably had a bit of a chip on my shoulder. I was an East Coast theater guy and I was, you know, what is this I'm reading for kind of thing? Yeah. And then somehow that attitude meshed with

playing an awful terrorist bomber on St. Elsewhere. And so... Served you well. Yeah. So I got that part and then I understood, oh my good, goodness, that was actually real high quality writing. Sure. Directing and really good actors in that. And And is that, if that's possible, that's a cool thing. And so then I started appreciating it a lot more and respecting it a lot more and respecting most importantly the creative, the crews, the people that, a film crew can do anything. You know, the collective work ethic of a film crew is like nothing you've seen. Yeah.

Construction is similar, but the magic that a film crew, can pull off in a limited amount of time. Yeah, this wasn't here yesterday and it's not going to be here tomorrow. Insane. Once you understand that, you have deep respect for these people. And, you know, I showed up late once in my early career and I was like, no, never again. These people are... Too many talented artists that are...

They show up on time and they work really hard and they deserve respect and, you know, so I got my act together. More happy say confused coming up. From the parents behind law and order, comes a mystery the whole family can enjoy. Patrick Pickle Bottom, Everyday Mysteries. Step into the whimsical world of Patrick Picklebottom, a precocious 11-year-old, with a love for reading and an uncanny ability to solve mysteries.

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slash the Glass Cannon with the podcast version dropping the next day. See what everybody's talking about and join us in the dark. What are your memories of Top Gun? Like, were you going up for that specific role? Or was it like, I mean, there's so many great young actors in that film. Was it kind of like mix and match who's right for what role or? Honestly, I don't remember. I just remember auditioning and getting the part.

I don't remember reading even the script. Yeah. So I wasn't like they said Merlin, I was like, fine. Cool name? Yeah. And by the way, a great job because I did the first part of shooting, we went down to San Diego and did some training and some flight simulations. And I did that, I think in June.

And then I did one day of shooting where we're on the aircraft carrier and we land, right? Right. And that one day, and then I go back to LA and I had eight weeks off or nine weeks off, 10 weeks off, on full pay. And I had to shoot again in September on a gimbal in Los Angeles. So in the interim, I wrote, produced, directed a play called Slick Slick Slickriff Graff with the actors getting it. Perfect. on full salary from Paramount, which was fantastic. And by the way, it was an anti-war plan.

Simpson-Bruckheimer did not know what they were funding. So that's amazing. It's a little ironic. Yeah, and, you know, it was great because I met some really cool people that became friends. You know, Val and Tom and Meg Ryan. and, you know, a few others that, you know, it was Anthony Edwards. Sure. Good, good people.

It was young Hollywood, you know. It was, you know, they were all young bucks and. No, again, it's a snapshot of that era of that gang. Yeah. Was there ever, did you ever get a call from Rutheimer when they did Maverick? Was there a talk of you potentially popping in there? So I've known Jerry for years. I play, I have played occasionally in his hockey.

game out in LA. I like him. I like him. He's a great guy. I did not receive a call. However, I heard an interview where he said he did call and then I turned it down.

But that could have been just projection. Sure. It could have been my agent saying there's no way he's going to do this. Or it could have been just them knowing I would wouldn't have done it. Yeah.

Is that accurate? You wouldn't have done it? I don't think so. I did like the movie. I thought it was good. Yeah. I love Tom, so, you know, I might have done it. Who knows?

Okay, I'm going to try to control myself on the Howard the Duck moment. Is it okay? But I was 10 years old when I saw Howard the Duck. Okay, did it traumatize you? Yeah, in the best possible way. Okay, good. It's a very strange movie. I'm not paying for any therapy.

That's why you're here. The doors are locked. We're going to work this out, Tim. Okay, all right. For context, though, people might not know, this one might not know, this at the time, all a crazy idea, did feel like an exciting moment. Oh, of course. This is George Lucas.

This is his collaborators. This is the first project after his Star Wars trilogy. Yeah. So it was a no-brainer. Of course I was going to say yes. Do you remember a tipping point on set? I remember the first day. The tipping point was seeing that puppet.

Wasn't there a guy in that? There was a guy in it for some scenes. And then there was a puppet. Okay. That was, you know, had a whole bunch of mechanisms. Sure. So, I knew the first day that the duck was miscast. In the comic book, he's a rough, crunched up guy guy.

Yeah. It was smoking a cigar and trying to get chicks. And what I saw on set that day was a cute-ass puppet. Too cute? Too cute? Too cute, not dirty enough. I mean, just not even dirty, dirty, dirty. Yeah, it was white, like beautiful, pristine white.

And it just didn't, and I, you know, God bless them all, they all tried so hard. The puppeteers, Willard Hike. There was, they were trying so hard to make it work. And I thought, you know, and it wasn't for me to say anything at the time, but I thought it's the duck. It's, you know, and the guys in the duck costume were great. You know, Ed Gale is a, you know, brilliant guy and still is. And that, you know, his tenacity to be in that costume.

Kind of nice. And to have, his physicality was right for it, but still the face. Yeah. And so. There is no the bestiality of it all. There's that. There's the condom. Let's be real.

No matter how dirty that duck is, we still got that issue. Yeah. So, and then, it's just so confusing. And that, I had never been on a film that would, I would wait on a set for a whole day before I'd shoot one line. Right. And that, for me, was challenging because it was away from home. I was up in San Francisco. I had a nice place in Saucolito.

that overlooked the bay. And I had good friends on the set. I made some friends for life on that set. And I very much loved working with Leah Thompson. And but it was rough. And so what I did was I had a video camera with me. Right. This is what I've heard.

This is going to be on the website. I am so there first day. And so in order to amuse myself, I started making short films. And so one of them is one of the things I unearthed when I was going through my archive. And I found this videotape. And I hired an editor and I said, let's make something out of this. And so it's a combination of 1985 video with 2026 digital technology. Oh my God, Tim.

You're speaking my language. And I hope that people like it. I hope the people that are in the crew that are in it see it and like it. And, you know, there's a shot of Willard in that where he's looking at the puppet and it's not performing. And his face says it all. And I love him to death. And it's, it's, it's, what the film is not about Howard the Duck. Sure, sure.

It's about, um, it's, it's about a rough, it's called rough day and duck, rough, rough, rough day and duck land. I will give you props. The last thing on Howard is, as silly as the movie is. And yes, it's maybe you'll conceive there were some issues. You're, you are so committed. You are all in. You're, you're like, you have to be in something like that. Yes.

You do the duck voice. You're doing big speeches. You, you're energy. is at high levels. So I've always appreciated. Thank you. I appreciate you saying that. It was a high risk,

high wire. Yeah. But, and luckily, I had filmed already a film called Five Corners. Right. That was coming out, came out,

I think, before it. So, well, maybe after, I'm not sure, but it was a really good movie with John Tuturo and Jody Foster. So I had a failsafe. If I had something that was like, okay, I'm also this, you know, and that led to a lot of nice things for me. There's probably not much new we can unearth about Boulder.

But we should give some props to it because it's such an important moment in your career. And I know a film that you still hold in high esteem as you should for a thousand reasons. I mean, it's, you know, on a personal level, on a professional level, that's a huge meaningful moment for you. Was that, as you recall, like, it's Ron Shelton. It's of course, Susan Sarandon. It's the great Kevin Koster. Are they all, were they all on board? Like, were you, like, the last one cast?

Did you have to fight for that one? What are your recollections of getting, getting old-down? I think I might have been the last of the three cast. Because I had to go play catch with Kevin Costner around in Burbank. That was the test, the final test. That was my final audition. Really? Oh, yeah, for sure.

Ron didn't want to cast someone that hadn't played baseball. Got it. And I had played a lot of baseball. I played mostly softball growing up in Manhattan. As you know, there's not a lot of baseball. of grass fields in Manhattan and not a lot of little league as we right as America knows it but uh i i could throw and i play used to play third base so i had a pretty good arm i just had to learn the mechanics of pitching and i had a great time on that i had a couple friends with me there

uh it was it was it was a lovely memory and it changed in my life the um not so long after you're in a film that has a long you know like I think there's a reverberating effect to a film like Jacob's Ladder. That's a movie that, again, you see at a certain point of your life, that breaks your brain open. That's like a haunting, haunting film.

Yeah, it is. Does that come up somewhat often still? A lot, yeah. People love that film. That's one that's lasted. And another one that didn't do business. Oh, it didn't do well at the time? Not at all.

It was the, if there's a, what's the opposite of zeitgeist? That's what it was. Yeah. Because it was coming, it was a movie about a veteran that was tortured by memories. And it was coming out three weeks before we were to invade Iraq the first time. And it was not on the cultural shortlist, shall we say. Yeah.

And it was, it couldn't have succeeded considering that. And so, again, time. Time is my best friend. Yeah. And if you do something that's good, people will find it eventually. There's three movies I love that very few people saw. And the three movies I chose to do after I won my Oscar.

And they are Catch a Fire with Philip Noyes, Secret Life of Words with directed by Isabel Cosette. Okay. with Sarah Polly and Julie Christie. And the third one is Code 46, directed by Michael Winterbottom. Yes. With Samantha Morton. She was just here, by the way, Samantha.

Unbelievable. Yeah. And she's an odyssey. She's fantastic. Yeah. So, I... Time is the best. Time will be my friend with those three movies.

I think they're all brilliant movies. Yeah. And for whatever reason. One other thing I want to mention on Jacob's Ladder. I don't know if you're aware of this. It's been brought to my attention. Apparently the video game series, Silent Hill, is heavily influenced by what?

By what? Have you heard that? I haven't seen any money for that. Show it to me. If it's so influential, where's the money? The lawsuit. No, no, no. That's cool.

It's a great movie. I mean, Bruce Joel Rubin, who wrote Jacobs Ladder, had, you know, kind of based it on the, Tibetan Book of the Dead. There's so many layers of philosophy and, you know, different ways of thinking in it that are so intriguing. And Adrian Lyne created a vibrant, scary film, you know. I'm really proud of that. That was my first starring role in a movie. More Happy Say Confused coming up. Sonic the Hedgehog has been thrust into a not-so-dark, not-so-stormy, hard-boiled detective story

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Or Howard Walmsley, a sentient wad of damp laundry who convinced his town he'd won the lottery, fleeced local businesses out of thousands, and then became a romance scammer. We've covered tons of cases you've never heard of. Colts, scammers, killers. So come find your next great binge. Listen to True Crime Campfire on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Friday. Well, you do another starring role not so long after.

I mean, it must have been a huge moment to work with Robert Altman. Oh, yeah. And the player, you know, all of his films are important in their own ways. But that was kind of like his comeback movie, comeback movie at the time, right? It was. And again, remains a classic. Whether you're like a Hollywood insider or not, it plays. It's kind of, you know, I think of the opening shot, the iconic eight-minute tracking shot.

Did you get along well famously with Alton? Loved him to death. Yeah. I was so blessed. to first of all meet him. He was a hero of mine. When I saw Nashville, I realized what film could be. I was really scared to meet him.

And immediately he made me at home. It was actually at his home, and he had lunch ready. And he just wanted to talk. I was asking my agent for sides. And they said, no sides, no audition. He just wants to meet you. And at that point he was trying to set up shortcuts. Yeah.

So we had a nice long talk and, you know, we smoked a joint at the end of it. And I thought, wow, this guy is amazing. I love him. And then he didn't get shortcuts put together. And I was being offered a part in a film and I had to decide whether I was going to do this thing. But I had the opportunity if I waited, possibly. that the player would get financed. And I turned down a lot of money

with the off chance that I could get this thing with Robert Altman. And then that came through, and that was another defining moment in my career because not only did I get to work with one of the great filmmakers of all time, but I was able to look at the experience as film school because I knew I was about to direct Bob Roberts. see the linkage, of course. There's got to be that. That's got to lead one. So I was watching everything. And Bob, by the way, when I first arrived at the production office on the player before we started shooting, basically said, I want to make a deal with you. We're going to do things to this script. We're going to change stuff. And we're going to do things to this schedule. We're going to change things a bit. We're going to go with a different way. And it might piss some producers. off. So let's make a deal. If the producers start messing with you, I will walk off the set.

If the producers start messing with me, you walk off the set. We got each other. I said, deal. Like, you are a rogue. I want to be hanging out with you. That's the thing about him. He was like a rogue that could sometimes work within the system. He found a way where I mean, he often was on his own path. But he certainly was. But he was a conoclastic and he was making movies that only he could make. And actors loved him. And we loved him because he allowed you such freedom. And so I was, you know, in offices with him, observing him and rewriting with him and watching him deal with department heads where someone would come in and say, what do, Bob, what do you think about this? He said, you know, what do you think about this and this and this and this and this?

And Bob would always say, what do you think, right? Imagine that, yeah. And the prop, guy or the costume person would then talk and he nod his head and he said well okay good let's think about it right now I asked him why did you do that because you know what you want right said yeah I know what I want but why would I ever cheat myself out of a better idea yeah and which was exactly what the lesson that I wish everyone could hear it's you can be brilliant but you but to have humility with that brilliance is the golden ticket That is what makes everything possible. Errogance, when people start considering themselves autours, watch out.

God-given genius, it all comes through me. Yeah, because they've stopped learning. And there's nothing more boring than someone that's stopped learning. They're just talking the same stuff, and they're not curious anymore. And curiosity is what makes someone, Interesting. Not to mention you're empowering those around you and making them feel like they're engaged and not just like clocking in and out and just like do what the man wants.

And then at the end of shooting every day, we'd go to dailies. And there'd be wine and cheese and snacks and everyone could come. So you had actors and department heads and even the crew members if they wanted to come could come. Love it. And everyone would see what we did the day before. And if there were mistakes, we would know it. Everyone would know it.

And Bob reaction wasn't anger. It was like, well, just get him next time. I love it. A lot of great things about Bob Roberts. One of them is that you gave us Jack Black. Do we credit you with launching Jack Black as an actor? Even before his first movie, which was Bob Roberts, he was a member of the actors getting. Right.

You guys go way back. Yeah. I cast him in a play when he was. 12 years old. That's amazing. Now was the 12 year old Jack that you saw basically what we see today? Like with the germs there? Was the seeds there?

Yeah, the seed, the germ was there, but not the wildness, not the craziness. Okay. Yeah. He was a relatively normal 12 year old. So what did you see? What was so exciting? Well, he was all so brilliant. Yeah.

Yeah. So that must be remarkable. And that's one of the pleasures of sticking in this business as long as you. as folks were able to, is like to go along the journey with folks in you, Lord of Jack at different points in your lives and to see where he's gone. It must just like boggle your mind to see what he's capable of dramatically, comedically, et cetera.

I was invited. They were coming through New York tenacious D. The music he does with Kyle Gass, who were both members of the actors gang. As a matter of fact, they met in a show called Carnage that we toured to New York Public Theater and to Edinburgh Festival with. They said, we're going to be playing at the garden and you should come see us.

And I thought, of course, there was going to be the theater at the garden, you know. There's two venues at the Master's Score Garden. And, you know, they were in the garden. They sold out the garden. I just couldn't believe. I was like, what the hell happened? Yeah. Yeah.

It was, I've seen them several times live. It's always fun. Yeah, I love when people I know get success. I think it's just such a thrill to watch people enter into that. And I have on occasion been able to give some advice on how to avoid, you know, the pitfalls and dangers that are there when fame presents its beautiful and ugly head. Do you have a go-to? What's like the Tim Robbins 101 to handling fame and? success um don't believe it yeah don't believe the hype if you believe the hype then you're gonna believe

the hype then you're gonna believe the critics that kind of thing yeah but more more that don't believe that you've been elevated above anything yeah because at the at the end of the day when you walk onto a set you still got to remember your lines and you still got to do something fresh and new and anything you've done in the past is irrelevant yep so if you're famous for what you've done in the past that's like is not very helpful in dealing with new creativity. It's also can turn you into a bit of an asshole too and I've seen that happen and sometimes people just need a humility check. I remember telling a friend of mine that was very famous, you know, he was talking about how, you know, in a way that was like,

Like, I had to respond, like, listen, guy, it's, it's really great that's happening, but it does not elevate you into any kind of realm above simple human being. Yeah, you're still the same person. Yeah. Yeah. Happy for you, but don't go there. It's a dangerous road. It's a trap. I mentioned the other film that I'm obsessed with in that period of time in the 90s is Hudsoncaper proxy, which has its lovers out there.

I'm glad you're obsessed with that. It's a great movie. I love that movie. Right? Yeah. For context, I think folks that listen and watch the podcast know, but it's a Cohn Brothers film, the union of the Cone brothers and Joel Silver. Sure, why not?

And Paul Newman, Jennifer Jason Lee, like, come on, like, just on another level. The best. Magical. Do you remember, I mean, there's a lot of war about the casting that Joel wanted, like, Tom Cruise, that Winona Ryder, who I also love, came close to almost playing that role. Do you remember being in the audition room for that? I remember being in the audition room with Orona and with a few other actresses for that part. That was the major, that was the role that they were auditioning for.

Yeah. Yeah, that was, I think I had to audition too at the beginning. I think what they were after was they were after actors that really understood what the 40s and 30s and 40s madcap comedies were like, you know, that kind of fast talk. Oh, the cadence was so specific. Yeah, it's really, if you didn't get that, they didn't, they weren't going to be able to work with you. And I love those films.

I mean, my man Godfrey is one of my favorite films. Yeah. I dreamed about being in a film like that. And it was such a lovely opportunity. Also, you know, after playing in Jacob's Ladder and Shawshank to play a total goofball. It's kind of an idiot, a beautiful idiot, a beautiful, sweet idiot. A naive, brilliant, idiot. You know, for kids.

Yeah. Do you ever get that? Do people ever quote you, you know, for kids? Yes, occasionally. I would. One of my keepsakes from that film was a, you know, those industrial drawings they do, like three, you know, the overview, the side view, the bottom view. Sure.

Of the hula hoop. Yeah. It's a circle, a line, and a line. It is so great. The art direction on that was just brilliant. And. Roger Deacons also. cinematographer, right? Exactly. Yes. Roger, who I met on that film. So when I was offered

Shawshanker Redemption, it was a brilliant script, one of the best scripts I've ever read, but it was the first time director, Frank. And I got in my contract in the negotiations, I got them to agree to allow me cinematographer approval. I've never heard of that even So I gave the script to Roger. Wow. And I said, I'm going to be doing this movie. I love for you to do it. And that's how he came on.

So that film obviously, you know, it was such a beautiful thing, how it turned out and how it continues to just surprise me every day. Remarkable. Yeah, I mean, so many people's favorite films that talk about a film that has an enduring legacy and will clearly always will. Yeah. I mean, so much great iconography in that film.

When I think of Deacons, how he shot it in Darabon, his first feature as a director, like, how do you even do that? Yeah. But, like, you know, raising your arms in the rain, like, do you remember, like, shooting that emergence, that shot? And, you know, it's the cliche question,

but like, do you feel in the moment? like, oh, this is like a special, this is a special shot. This could have some residence. I did. I did, yes. I also needed to get whatever was on me off because I was falling into a real creek. And the real creek was runoff from farmland. Yeah.

So it was toxic. So I needed. There's an urgency. I had an urgency to let that rain get the toxins off me. That's amazing. Yeah. And that's now probably just still, that will be a daily part of your life, Shawshank. That's just there. But Hudson Zucker was as well. You know, there were two, I think they came out in the same year and there were two difficult titles too. You know, there's two difficult titles to remember. But I really love, you know, Shawshank gets a lot of attention and I love that. Yeah. But Hot Suckers like that kid that didn't get the attention. You know, it's funny. I asked Bob.

Altman, what his favorite film of his was. And he says, I think about my films the way I think about my kids. The ones that don't get attention are my favorites. Yeah. And so, you know, in a way, Hudsucker is one of my favorites for that reason because it really didn't get the audience to deserve. There's a timeless quality about it. It feels like it could have been made in the 30s or today, and it's just sort of like a

magic. It's a jewel box of a movie to me. Yeah, it is. And it's a great movie to watch on New Year's Eve, too. Do you still remember the fight on Dear Muncie song? Well, I don't know if I could sing it for you right now. You can't say yes and then not. Give me something.

Well, I don't remember. Okay. That didn't take long. You get Jennifer Jason Lee in here. The duet is what it's all about. Her trying to keep up. We're trying to keep up. Yeah.

She's brilliant in that. It's so good. Okay, jumping around a bit. I mean, we should give some props to your Oscar win for Mystic River. Remarkable working with Quint is a moment for any, actor um you obviously worked with sean in a couple different capacities as well but like quint is so famous minimal amount of takes like talk about like you talk about altman having a hospitable working environment quint in his own way same kind of thing really did you feel like that like

was that eye opening for you as someone who had already had directed by that point to see how quince ran a set and was able to i loved it i loved it we were out every day started every day at nine we're out by two It's like not even shouldn't be allowed. Like how is that possible? It should be allowed and it should be encouraged. No, it's true. You got it.

What it's about is discipline. Yeah. It was, we knew going in that Clint was only getting about us one take. He had three setups usually on every scene one take. So you had three chances. And so we came in ready. We came in discipline. Yeah.

And all of us would, after we got off at 2 o'clock, would look at the schedule the next day and we'd go into a room at the hotel and start rehearsing. So we were ready. All great actors in that film. All bought in completely. Yeah. And here's the great thing about it,

is usually when you're doing a movie, it's not necessarily always in order the scenes you're doing. Sure. So you're scrambling to remember what state of emotion and what urgency and what intensity you had in a scene because you're playing the scene after that one. Right. A month later. Right. Well, with this one, you didn't have to catalog in your memory. You didn't have to go, which take were they using? Right. Because I did it in many different ways. I did it twice. It's one of those two. I did it. I know exactly what I did. Yeah. So I know exactly how to modulate. my performance, you know, from beginning to end. Yeah. It also provided us an opportunity to really get some sleep, have meals with each other.

This is the way, by the way it started when I was doing episodics in L.A. in the 80s, crews would get home at night and see their families and raise them or if you were young you could have a date after you worked on a movie set and then it got into I think it's everything has started deteriorating post mergers I was going to say is it the bottom line's about efficiencies and money like the end of the day right like that's kind of the core problem that respect for the cruise went away. The whole idea that crews are human beings and they have families seem to have been forgotten. And Clint never forgot that. Clint always knew

that that was the way that it should be done. And demanded the discipline and the quiet and the concentration on a set. It was very zen, it was very masterful, and it was a beautiful experience.

famously doesn't scream action just like on your own time or whatever right or like when you're ready when you want to go go yeah all right let's start so great yeah I would imagine a different kind of environment here's a left field one you probably don't get asked a lot about working with brian da pama on mission to mars I mean I respect Brian da pama's work but I know he's also you know a tough cookie as a filmmaker did you got along yeah what's your remembrance because that was kind of his last like Hollywood movie. He had the money. He had the budget.

Clearly it didn't whatever click for whatever reason. It was a happy experience though for you. Yes. I would say that the happy experience. Yeah, I had I was, yes, why not? It was fun. I was working with Don Cheedel who became a friend. I liked the cast.

I liked, I had my family with me, which is always nice. It was the summer in Vancouver. I was able to go down to Seattle to see Friends. Yeah, it was a good time. Okay. Another master, you did get to re-team with Tom for War of the Worlds with Spielberg.

Yes. And you get this nice, it's almost like this like separate Twilight Zone episode in the middle of this great movie or of the Worlds. I mean, is that, what are you, it must have been meaningful to reunite with Tom that also to get a chance to work

with Spielberg in that context. What do you remember about your experience on War of the Worlds? It was, what I remember the most, it was great to work with Tom and, of course, Stephen, but what I remember the most was how Dakota looked like an adult to me. She was so professional and so concentrated.

And it was as if, It was as if she was a mature actress. Yeah. And that was rare. So rare for a kid, you know. She was just here last week, literally. Was she? Yeah.

I ran into her out in L.A. a few weeks ago. And it was really nice to see her. I hadn't seen her since she was a little kid. Yeah. And she's got good parents. She did well. Her sister's doing well. It's all nice to see.

Let's talk a little bit of where you're at now. We mentioned at the start, I got a chance to see you briefly in San Diego for Silo. You had you, we can now say it, your dramatic return from the dead. He's, he's back. Bernard's okay. Or is he? Or is he? The rewards of this kind of ongoing show, spending a lot of time shooting in London, as I understand it, right?

Working with a great ensemble and Rebecca Ferguson, et cetera. What's been the joy of Silo these last few years for you? Oh, what a gift. Great crew, great production team, producers, directors, writers, Graham Yosts, heading it all, hiring good people, 10-hour days. Again, it goes back to quality of people having lives. Yeah. It's so essential.

People able to go home, see their kids. Yeah. It creates a completely. different environment than the one I've been used to over these past few years is it's this idea that we are all professionals we can do this in 10 hours you don't have to go into 14 16 hour days it's I just had this you know random thought you know a few years before I did so silo was like this is the 21st century and our union is okay with us working 16 hour days going in the wrong direction what would happen oh

Why wasn't that part of the negotiation? First off, flat out, we're not letting our actors work more than 12 hours. That's it. Figure it out. Light and the sound, right, yeah. I just, yeah, anyway, don't have to start on the unions. But SILO was, not only was good people, but the ability to work on that kind of material at that particular time when we started it.

COVID times, right? Yeah. So rare. Yeah. It was like I couldn't, actually, I just couldn't believe it. I was, I read that, this first season's scripts. And I thought, how is this possible that they are doing something that is completely about what we are going through right now? Yeah.

How rare is that? Yeah. A controlled society where if you do not behave and do what the government wants, you will be banished. We had just lived in that. And whatever you think about what went on, it is metaphorically what the silo is. And I saw it as a great cautionary tale. And the character, as Graham described him to me, was a powerful person, but he said to have patience with it. He's not, he is not what he seems to be, which is a great thing.

Any actor wants to hear that. And he came through with that in season three. There was such a great turn. And it's everything you want to do as an actor. Like how can you like your arc starts here and yeah gets into this weird place over here. It's usually arcs are like this. It's not very much an arc. But this one was magnificent and and then to get to work with Common and Rebecca, it was, you know, and Harriet Walt, it's just so great.

It's just, yeah, I loved it. I loved being in London. I loved the way I was treated. by the production and by Apple. And they're doing good stuff, Apple. They have respect for good writing and good direction and good acting, which I can't say of all the major producers in streaming right now. They have a real understanding of the creative process Apple does.

And they have also a certain intelligence about what makes a good series. Yeah. What are you losing more sleepover, getting more up in the arms over lately? The prospect of AI dominating or the consolidation of media, the increasing consolidation, I should say, of media.

Well, they're both bad news. The consolidation of media has been happening for quite a long time. Right. And we see it in the results of what is being produced. there's less and less risk-taking. Those that do take risks are entering into a pretty hostile marketplace.

And AI is the beginning of the end for truth, really. I'm now looking as I'm looking through social media, I'm now, I'm now, able to still identify what is fake and what is not. They're going to try to get better and better at that. But I also have a very strong faith in humanity and in artistry. And I know that for years, that same kind of formula has existed. There is the standardized kind of by-wrote script that you read.

This is pre-AI. this kind of formulaic way of writing, and that's usually being done because they feel that's what the studio wants. Yeah. And what you get is more and more boring. Yeah, iterative, and it just gets... Yeah.

And so that's already existed. Sure. The fact that they're putting that through AI is even worse for them because it's just going to get more and more based on what has happened in the past. Yeah. However, these cells working on up here are unique and unique to every individual. And that will create unique artistry. I have no doubt about that. One thing I do know,

as someone that has done a lot of theater, is that you will never replace that. Yeah. They are trying, you know, to do like what they do. Like, what they're think is our innovative things in theater by using AI. It's just ridiculous. Give me a blank stage, eight good actors, and a piece of material, and I will make magic for you. I know how to do that. I did a production of Midsummer Night's Dream with no sets, and I had this one kid come

up to me and said, my favorite set of all time was Midsummer Night's Dream. Because we created through movement and through using different sticks and flowers, we created a hundred different looks in that forest. But it was all done with maybe a budget of $500. Right. You can make magic in a live situation with actors and with people's imagination in the audience. That will never be replaced by AI. They can get slick with you in movies. We've already seen how CGI can pretty much do anything.

But at the same time, you can tell. And it becomes so much that you think, wow, they really, you know, created a big bang-em-up bashing moment there. but you're not moved. No, it's soulless. It doesn't feel, yeah. It doesn't feel real. You're witnessing something that's manipulated. You're not witnessing something real.

Yeah. Whereas a real special effect, you register in a different way. You go, wow, that's, how did they do that? Yeah. Now the wonder is, yeah, they did it with AI, so I'm, you know, I'm bored. Again, it's, can you take, can you be, a Luddite in your, with your creativity. Can you use principles of Ludditism to address creativity? In other words, get back to the basics. What are the essentials that you need to create magic?

And can you do it with less? That's what I find interesting. And what I've had to live with my whole life, because I've never had a budget that allows me to do that kind of stuff. Right. You have to be creative. You have to use your limitations to your benefit. As much as I'd like to keep you the rest of the afternoon, a couple quick things, a couple random things before I let you go, okay? A couple rumor roles that I've heard about over the years.

Is it true that you almost did a quiz show way back when? Yes. Is that a regret? I mean, it's a great movie. No, not at all. I had another thing I had to do. I just didn't work out. Okay.

I would have loved to work with Robert Red for us. I admired him so much. But one of the true geniuses, great people, also a model for any actor coming up, if you make a lot of money, provide opportunity for others. Yeah. No, his legacy is beyond just his films.

He made so many filmmakers out of Sundance. That's just, that's his legacy. He said, that's the way you should live your life. Same thing with Newman. You know who I got to work with Paul Newman, who took his money, his influence, and created products that created opportunities for the disadvantage. Totally.

Here's a super random one. There was a report way back when talk about these kind of silly comic book things that you almost played Doctor Doom 20 years ago in the Fantastic Four movie of 2005. Not true. Not true. Not true. Don't remember that coming up. No.

Okay. We've set the records straight. I do this with actors with... No more rumors? That's it. That's all I got for you. Is there the one you want to put out there? Oh, there's a lot.

How about this? I do this with actors with very impressive filmographies. We're going to pick your best film in your career, ten. And you're going to choose it, bracket style. So for instance, we're pitting against each other. Create a little rock. We're not doing directing efforts. We're doing the acting.

Okay. Let's start with my two faves. Howard the Duck versus Hudsucker proxy. That's right. Okay. Bull Durham versus Jacob's Ladder. Not fair. That's why this game is so great.

No, it's not a great game. No, it's great. They're two totally different movies. I know, but like today, what do you choose? Just today, at this moment. Today, it's summer, it's baseball, it's Bull Durham. Okay, Bull Durham. Bob Roberts versus the Shawshank Redemption.

Yeah. Oh, that's terrible. I know, it's great. That's terrible. No, I'm not answering that question. Yes, you are. You can do it. No, you've come this far.

They're both important movies to me. I agree. We're not eliminating one from the universe. We're just saying, at this. moment, you're choosing one. At this moment, I'm choosing the one that I also directed. Okay, Bob Roberts, it is. Mystic River versus the player. This is a terrible game. Why are you doing? Jack Black did this. It melted his brain, too. You're in good company. I don't, you know, it's like you, it's like you're making me choose between two things I love. We'll do your children next.

No, it's like, oh, I'm not going to sacrifice my children for you, God. for my amusement. Mystic River versus the player? The player changed my life. And I met Robert Aldman, but Mr. Griver changed my life and I met when Eastwood. It's a tie.

Oh my God. So is Bob Roberts and whatever that was pitted against. Tim, you lose this game. I'm just in a tie. You've lost the game. I'm happy to lose this thing. Okay, we're going to end here.

Happy second fuse, profoundly random questions. Are you a cat or dog person? Different times of my life. I have been a cat person. I'm a cat person currently. And other times of my life I was a dog person and I love dogs. Okay. Not a better friend in the world when you're alone.

The best. Cats are more like, you know, I am a superior being to you. I pity you, human being. And I'll come by you if you want to pet me, but I don't really care. Gotta respect that in a way. You don't have enough fur on you. You're pathetic the way you live your life. But I have pity on you.

Yeah, just feeling constantly judged. So I'll let you pet me if you want. Yeah. What do you collect? What do I collect? I collect baseball cards. Oh, yeah? I collect photographs.

Okay. Favorite video game of all time. I don't play video games. Never played of a game. Not like the Ms. Pac-Man back in the day, nothing. Okay. Nope. I used to play pinball.

We'll allow it. You're going to allow pinball? Well, after you screwed up the other game, I'm going to let this one. Dakota Johnson asked me this, I ask everybody, would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one B in your butt? A mouthful of bees? Are they dead or alive? Great question.

They're alive. Fuck no. Yeah. On the butt. What's the wallpaper on your phone? My girlfriend. Okay. Last actor you were mistaken?

Last actor was mistaken for. That hasn't happened a long time. No? When I was first starting out, this kid shows up at my door, after I'd done St. Elsewhere. So I hadn't done much. And it's a guy that knocks on my door at Westwood. And he asks if Tim Bottoms is here.

Oh, sure. And I was freaked out, and the guy was one of these kids that, made the trip to Los Angeles for their dreams and didn't understand that you got to work hard and just thought that if he asked Tim Bottoms for a leg up, he'd give it to him. That's how it works. Yeah, that was a sad one. I wrote about that. Yeah, that was a sad one.

What's the worst note of director has ever given you? Worst note of director's ever given me. Well, I actually thought it was a great note. Be better. I'm all into that note. Yeah? Yeah. You respond to that?

Oh, yeah. Who gave that to you? I forget. I just remember thinking, that's a great note. Be better. I'm going to give that as a director. I want to give that note. Be better.

Okay. Yeah. Because it's an actor knows exactly what they need to do better most of the time. It's just telling you double down on what you're doing or just try. Just be better. Okay, all right. And that can be interpreted anyway. Sure, right?

Yeah. It's like when I'm working with actors of the actors gang and I'm training them, we have a rule. No, you know, at the end of a scene or at the end of a workshop, we don't say what negative happened. We say what positive happened. No actor needs to be told that they suck. They know.

So why humiliate them in front of other people? Yeah. It's just, let's just accentuate the positive. positive and move on. Another day will come and you'll be better. Just so be better. Yeah. Yeah. And finally in the spirit of happy say I confused. An actor that makes you happy. You see them on screen. You're in a better mood. Jimmy Stewart. Great. Bill Murray. Excellent. Movie that makes you sad. I stumped you. Yeah. I don't know. Really. You don't have a go-to. You're not a crier in films. I try to because of the world being what it is, I try to watch a lot of

comments. I hear you. Sad movies. Yeah, I don't have one. Okay. It's a wonderful life. Jimmy Stewart. It's like it can bring a tear. There's some emotional stuff in there. That's an uplifting movie. In the end, yeah, but you go through an emotional roller coaster, I think, on the journey.

Yeah, but I was thinking of how it leaves you. Yeah, no, 100%. One of my favorite movies of the past 10 years has been Cold War. Yeah. That was such a beautiful movie. Oh my goodness. What's a food that makes you confused? A food that makes me confused.

Oh, yeah, anything you put in a microwave. Anti-microwave. Oh, hell no. I mean, like, how can you eat that? I just don't understand how people can eat something that's been zapped by a radiated force. It seems healthy. Seems right. It's all bad.

How could you say that? It's all bad. I see some cheeses over there. Those are all bad. All your triggers are in the room. Yeah. My mom, you know, was a macrobotic and organic in 1967. Wow.

Heheaded with her time. Yeah. Way ahead of her time. And so we weren't allowed processed food. So I'm totally confused by processed foods. You never went off the deep end. You never like. Of course I did.

But you came back around. Like any rebellious teenager, I had to eat some Cheetos. And now we know. Glorious. Yeah. Oh, this sticky cheese. Yeah. It's still in there somewhere.

Yeah. But they were horrible. Yeah. Inside. Now you're wise. You know, mom, mom knew best. No more cheese. No more cheesets.

That's our PSA for the day. Timrobbins.com and no cheesits everybody. You have a cheezid like, do they give you those for free? I wish. Because you're not getting them anymore. You ruined my sponsorship to you. Damn you, Tim. This has been a blast. I really appreciate you. As you can tell, I'm a big fan of your work always

in front of and behind the camera. Congratulations on Silo. The new season is out there for everybody, and I myself will be digging into your website for Howard the Duck content and more. Oh my god, it's so much fun. I can't wait. Hope to chat with you again soon and again, thank you for the time man. Thank you. Appreciate you. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't should do this by Josh.

Goodbye, Kyle. Did the sound of those words call to you like Pavlov's dog? Then you might enjoy our podcast Turtle Time. Every week you can join me, Riley Hamilton and my co-host, Amy Scarletta as we cover the most pressing Bravo news and dig into the new episodes to answer important questions like, Who the hell is Adrian Maloof in this world? Listen to Turtle Time on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Wednesday and Friday.