Happy Sad Confused - Timothee Chalamet

Episode Date: December 7, 2017

It's all happening very fast for Timothee Chalamet and he knows it. Sure, he's been acting and performing for years but no other 21 year old can point to the trifecta of films he's just made, all earning awards season love. Oh and he's just been filming the new Woody Allen movie in between endless red carpets and interviews like this one.  On this episode of "Happy Sad Confused", TImothee opens up to Josh about his career aspirations, his acting idols, and how he almost ended up playing Spider-Man. Plus Timothee and Josh talk about the film that is launching Chalamet into the stratosphere, this universally loved, "Call Me By Your Name".  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Get after him or have you shot You mean blow up the building From this moment on None of you are safe New episodes every Wednesday Wherever you get your podcasts Today on Happy Say I Confused, Timothy Shalame, on his breakout year with Call Me by Your Name, Lady Bird, and Hostiles. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Horowitz.

Welcome to another edition of the podcast. As I said, our guest this week is Timothy Shalame, who Sammy, I think Timothy might be our youngest guest yet. I think he's 21? No way. I think so. You're doing the math? No, you're wrong. What?

Bella Thor. Got you with Bella. Is Bella younger than, then, too? Yes, she is not 21. Okay. Okay, well. I'm not positive about it. You said it so authoritatively.

I know, and then I'm like, oh, God, I don't know. You know, usually, you know, people sometimes bring up, you know, younger actors for me to talk to, and I'm hesitant often. especially, you know, if they haven't, like, kind of, like, put together enough films for me to talk about with them. But there were a couple factors that made talking to Timothy a no-brainer. A, you know, we've been talking about this great movie, Call Me By Your Name, which is now out. Army Hammer was on the show just last week. Michael Stoolbarg's going to be on it very, very, on the show very soon.

It's a beautiful movie that that movie alone can warrant a long conversation. I'm seeing it in three hours. Come to us then. You're going to love it. If you don't love it, there's something wrong with you. Well, we'll see. Okay. Oh, no.

There's something wrong with you. No, I'm going to love it. But beyond that, Timothy, as I said, has quickly, I mean, I don't know if I, I don't think I knew who Timothy Sheld me was six months ago, or at least before Sundance, when, Call Me By Your Name debuted. But suddenly he's everywhere. He's in Lady Bird, which is another one of my very favorite movies of the year. He's in this Christian Bale movie Hostiles, which I have yet to see that I've heard, though I've heard good things.

And then as I started to do research on Timothy, I just, I got really interested in talking to him because he, you know, he's a New Yorker, he's done a lot of theater, he's just his performance alone in Call Me By Your Name is already putting him on these like best actor short lists for awards consideration. He's one, he's been winning awards left and right. So he's somebody that like, I feel very confident in saying this is not just like a, you know, a one trick pony that like next year we're going to forget about. about him. This is the launch of a very exciting career. And he was great to talk to. You were there Sammy in Toronto when we chatted with him. I really. And he and Army Hammer had such cool chemistry and we're so comfortable. And I loved him. And guys, he does not have a French accent. He does not. Though he speaks fluent French. His dad is French, to clarify. Did you say to him, is this how you found out? Because you were like, well, wait a second. No, no, I've done my research. I knew, so I didn't need to get that clarified. Here's a revelation to spoil something coming up in the podcast.

We went to the same grade school. What? Didn't Jordan Peel go to that school, too? Yes, Jordan Peel. But the difference is that Jordan Peel and I are roughly the same age. He's a couple years younger. Timothy... I thought you were to say Timothy's a couple years younger, and I was like,

and Timothy was very sweet both on the podcast. And afterwards, he was like, he was trying to compare teachers with me. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, Timothy. Mine are all dead by now, probably. Like, we're different generations, my friend. But it's very sweet of him to think that. So, yeah, there was a, you know, he grew up kind of close to where I grew up. So fun to kind of just bond with something like that. You were not speaking fluent French, though. I took a couple years of French. So did you guys, do you guys dive into any French in this podcast? Just so you guys know, this podcast is done entirely. Broken French. Biencer.

Really good. That's all I remember. That's a good accent, too. Yeah, it was beautiful. So that is this episode of Happy Second Fused. Timothy Chalemay. We're rooting for him. We like him.

Yeah. I mean, he's, look, he's got tough competition in his category this year. It's Gary Oldman or him, I think, is the two biggies. And I, I mean, I adore Gary Oldman. So I'll be happy either way if it ends up being one of those two. Okay. As long as you're going to be okay either way. I'm just saying.

Okay, I'm just saying that... You will survive if either one of them win the Oscar. Here's what... If someone else comes in and wins, that's it for you. We have several months left of Oscar race. So let's not get burnt out already. Okay. Things can happen.

And B, Timothy, win or lose... He's got a while to go. He's got a while to go. And the career has been launched. And you're going to fall in love with him on the screen, and you're going to fall in love with him when you listen to this podcast, because he's a charmer.

Oh, I will fall in love with him, probably. Remember, as always, guys, please review, rate, or subscribe or do all three on iTunes. Timmy would want you to. Oh, Timmy Tim definitely would want you to. And he asked in French, too.

He did. After the podcast, he said, do review, wait, and subscribe. That was French. That was amazing. Yours is only slightly better than mine. Enjoy this. conversation with Timothy Chalme. And remember to check out all three of his movies. Hostels

isn't quite out yet, but Lady Bird is in theaters. It is remarkable and beautiful. And call me by your name. You've heard the buzz. It is well warranted. It's a special one. In the meanwhile, here's this chat with Timothy. Thank you, Shalmi. Good to see, buddy. Thanks for having me. And good to see you after meeting you in Toronto for the first time. was our first meeting. You know, I think I've said it at least a couple of times, see you I'm in love with this movie, as you've heard from many others.

And I'm talking to all your friends. I just had Army on last week. Stolbargs coming in tomorrow. Oh, I didn't know that. Fantastic. Yeah. I'm a little intimidated by Stilbarg. Okay, I had the same experience. I was extremely intimidated by him,

and we did a couple rehearsals that left me feeling all the more intimidated. And I'd seen him in a play called The Pillow Man in New York when I was 12 by Martin McDonough. That was, again, all the more intimidating. And then I went on YouTube, and it's like, the curse of being an actor or something these days but all you have to do is type someone's name

and followed by EPK and then everyone's humanized Yeah and he's also seems like yeah I've been watching some interviews with him He seems like no soft-spoken sweetest guy That's what is That's what's so destabilizing Is because he has played

Some really intense Not in call me by her name He plays like the best father on the planet But yeah In other films he's really intense or plays I just watched a serious man this morning Just because it'd been in a while He's so incredible in that movie

watch that movie again. And people say that's like the Cohen Brothers film that is, you know, the most parallel to what their existence would have been growing up exactly what their father would have been. Yeah. Right. So, okay, so a lot to talk about with you, despite you being perhaps the youngest guest on Happy Sank infused thus far. I didn't know that. Is that true?

I think so. I think if not, you're certainly in the top three. Great. So congrats on that distinction. Thank you. But you've been making up for the lack of years you've made up for in a lot of work, particularly in this last year that you should be very proud. Thank you, appreciate it.

I've seen two of the three films, Lady Bird, I'm in love with as well. I love that movie. And I'm seeing Hostiles this week, so we'll completely be a tri-factor. What a weird trifecta, right? Totally, none of them fit in with each other. And Hostiles seems like the definite outlier, right? Yeah, hostiles is the definite outlier. I mean, I guess there are, you know, it's two coming-of-age stories that...

Period. Both period? Yes, yes. And Hostels is Period, too, but it's very much not a coming-of-age, unless Christian Vail is coming of age, but he's not, I've seen it, and it's not a coming of age story. By the way, it pains me to no end that I'm calling both Lady Bird and Call Me By Your Name, period, film, since I, unlike you, have grown up through both of those periods. No, well, Lady Bird I would have grown up through, and certainly, like, I guess I would

have only been five or six years old, but I have distinct memories of Backstreet Boys, you know, CD covers, or, you know, Britney Spear, what would it have been? One of her first albums. I mean, I went to Tower Records and my mom and my sister on 65th Street when I was, like, seven or six years old and my sister was getting a bruny spears album and i went i went for get rich or die trying and my sister i remember like chastised my mom because there's the explicit there was the explicit warning on it but i missed that tower i uh i grew up on the upper west side oh i didn't know that yeah yeah yeah and i did you go to elementary school i went to uh ps 87

that's where i went to ps 87 are you kidding me i'm not kidding at all what no amazing so who did you have for kindergarten who did i for kindergarten she's probably like dead by now you're like decades older than you um i don't even remember her last name my god you're putting me on the spot where did you go to junior high wait let's go through the teachers let's go to the teachers none of the teachers are still there okay miss davis i'm 40 years old did you have miss davis emily davis oh are you kidding why are we comparing you're 20 years younger than me okay fair fair no okay all right junior high which is middle school not to age you but no uh would have been delta okay which is in the book or two washington

building on the northwest side and that was a miserable miserable three years um that's not the one because i went across the street i don't know whether they did It's called now, IS-44 at the time. No, no, no, no, that's 70. That's, no, no, no, oh, yeah, yeah. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yes. IS-44 is the middle school that's across the street from PS-87.

There's also computer school around there. Oh, is that where you went? No, but when I went to middle school, junior high, whatever we want to call it, they had just split it up into, like, the computer school, and there were a couple other, like, kind of sub-schools part of I-Squiv-4. Right, because in New York City they're always doing. They're always taking these big buildings that were, like, made in the 20s or 30s, and they stick four different programs with fancy names in them.

like, you know, school or whatever, you know, some specific thing. When were you to go to high school? I went to Stuyvesant for a year. You went to Stuyvesant, okay. But then they kicked me out. I'm not going to crack a bunch of jokes. No, they kicked me out because I never went to school. Oh, yeah, kicked out.

I got kicked out because I'm the saddest never-do-well ever. I spent my freshman year. I didn't smoke, drink, do anything bad. I just didn't go to class. So they kicked me out, and my parents had to fork over Big Bucks and send me to Dalton for three years. Oh, my gosh. Oh, yeah, I have great friends that went to Dalton. And, but, yeah, wow, getting kicked out of Stuyvesant, that's like the New York City equivalent of Zuckerberg, like dropping out of Harvard or something.

Stavisn is a, yeah, smarty-pants school, but clearly I couldn't cut it. Stavisans, like, for those listening that don't know it, is the best school in New York that is incredibly hard to get into. So I didn't realize we had this many powerless. This is cool. So where did you grow up in the city? I grew up in Hell's Kitchen on 43rd and 9th. Okay, nice. And your parents are still here in town?

My parents are still here, yeah. And a little bit back and forth with France. Got it. Okay, so talk to me a little bit, because I'm a New York City snob, that always ends up coming up a lot of conversations here. Do you feel like, I mean, we're all obviously defined by where we grew up. How do you feel like New York defines you? I love that question, because I take an inordinate amount of, like, baseless pride and the fact that I'm from New York. Nothing you had control over, but you're going to say, but as relates to the identity thing, that's really a huge part of acting for me or the ability for myself, not necessarily for

audiences, because that's their distinction to make and their rapport card to fill out. But it's always helped me, like, a real sense of ambiguity, personally, about where I'm from. And, you know, my mom's from New York. My grandparents are from the Bronx. My great-grandparents on my mom's side were Russian immigrants, Jewish, that were kind of fleeing, not kind of, were fleeing persecution. And on my dad's side, we're French, you know, Protestants, not from, like, Paris, France, but, like, from, you know, St. Tietien or or Luchampos-orignon or, you know, these are also beautiful areas, but it's not the, you know, Parisian landscape that, that's Americanized. Yes, yes, exactly. And so, like I said,

there's, I want to say there's a feeling of envy when I see people that really know themselves, but there really isn't. Like, I love this feeling of, I have no clue who I am. And what's thrilling is thrilling or maybe destabilizing or ultimately not a great thing, but that, like I'm kind of figuring out while doing these films and already like I did a movie called Miss Stevens when I was 19 and already it's so true it's you know it's interesting for me to go back and watch that and I see a version of myself that isn't false but just isn't who I am today sure well you're in particular like you know not to like make you put you in a place in terms of your age but you're at this this period of time where you're evolving probably at a rapid rate no it's these day I watch call me by her name and I'm like Oh, man, I look so young. Yes, I've aged significantly. The stress, the stress of show business at a young age. Well, and it's also, obviously, been a surreal bizarre year, to say the least, that I guess

probably kicked off with Sundance would call me by your name. Yeah, it's exactly. It's so, yeah, it's been, it's been, it's so weird, this is the stuff you dream about. And I say that non-contrast with the experiences, because the experience has been absolutely awesome. Yeah. And yet, it's, it is totally weird. And particularly with Sundance, because as a young actor, like, I did a TV show called Homeland.

And then the idea was that I maybe could have done some television shows around that, but the idea is like, okay, I'm going to swing for the fences. And the way you do that is to, you know, do independent films with directors that are already established or look to be, you know, exciting. and really like the email, you know, pattern almost is like, you know, this will go to Sundance or this will be a big thing at Sundance. And I was a part of a number of projects that, even some that were developed at the Sundance Lab, too, in fact, that weren't at Sundance. So it becomes a holy grail of sorts. And it was, and the tremendous irony is the, you know, commonality tone they try to infuse with that festival. and then it's just like, ah, we're all just here, and it's just a normal experience, and we're all wearing plaid shirts, and yet, like, their deals being made for, you know,

absurd amount and some money. So, yeah, it's been a weird year. Well, and also the fact that this one in particular, call me by your name, has been years in the making, not only by you, but by filmmakers, James Ivory, et cetera, have all been trying to kind of, like, figure out how to get this off the ground with different permutations of cast, et cetera. And you were attached to it for, what, three or four years? Yeah, when I was 17. But in that way, and it also helped the production.

of it and the making of it. And so that I didn't audition for someone a week before I started and had the feeling, okay, I have to match the audition. But rather, I had known Luca for four years before we started shooting. I hung out with James Ivory a week upstate in New York and we went through his films. Like, there was such a preparation in this. And then there was the Europeanism to this character that I had not addressed in performance before. All the European parts of myself, I associated with not like repression, but certainly not the outgoingness that fed as a young person growing up in New York or at a middle school where it's very academic and the only outlet for any sort of attention is to make the biggest fool yourself

as possible and and so to be acting in French even was was so weird because it felt like worlds colliding and there wasn't like these ideas or the identity of this character and how I relate to it still hasn't you know metamorphicize if that's a word in my head and it's really in watching it that there's the strongest identity to the thing. It must also be like it's a double-edged sword when you were like attached

to a project that early on where like you know you can accumulate all this experience and you're understanding of the character and the project can evolve at the same time in the back of your head

you're like this could still fall apart maybe I'm going to get too old maybe they're going to maybe a filmmaker's going to come and go that happens all the time. Or like James Ivory was supposed to direct it and Luke was producing it

and James I knew wanted me to be Elio in it and then it came time for Luke to direct it and then and then there wasn't really a conversation around it and I just kind of stayed the lead but it was actually in a Q&A the other day I think I forget what the question was that set it up but

Luca alluded to someone bringing up the fact that I was cast as LEO when he was made director and the idea being floated to him and he confirmed it and he went okay this is a cool idea but it was it was floated to him there was the moment where you could have been like no I'm going to open this up

I mean it's not out of the question when a filmmaker comes on board as a director they want to present their wholly unique vision and to inherit another person's actor um and lucas certainly signed lucca cast me in fact i met with him before i met with uh james ivory and he was developing with he was kind of co-directed or something there were different permutations right at that point he was developing it or i think he might have already been co-directing it but certainly like he gave me the stamp of approval even even first like i said i might think but

you know when it came to i'm actually doing it yeah he there was a second conversation second thought process were there were there other actors that you met with or talked to besides army because i remember like shio was mentioned i don't know if he was that was for that part or what did you get a chance to kind of mix it up with other actors along the way yeah I mean we yes exactly we we we did a number of rehearsals with Shaya who was and is like one of my favorite actors and it's just so inspiring a lot because I'm I'm a I go way back with Shia and I'm I'm a huge admirer of his he gets misunderstood a lot he's just so passionate about what he does yeah and not in a masochistic or romanticizing way that's part of the appeal I

as a performer as an actor. I can't even really tell. I mean, because when I watch Infomaniac or American Honey, that mystery and that, and that, and that, mystery is like not even almost good enough of word,

but that's all I can get to right now. It's just, it's so tangible on screen. He brings a ronis where it's like, wait, is this, is this happening? Like, it's like there's like a tangible, like, danger to his performances

that is palpable. Right, yeah. It jumps off the screen. So was his take on the character much different than armies? That would have been a much different film? Well, we didn't, you know, The truth is, I wouldn't even, I wouldn't even be able to give you a succinct answer on that because it never progressed beyond a stage where if we were reading scenes together, our heads were in the page, like, we didn't know our lines, which is fair because it was like a year, a year away from being made or something.

But, no, it's like you said, it's like in all his films, there's a certain rawness, and he had just worked with Gary Oldman on a film. So he was kind of bringing that ethos in the, you know, we just had one meeting and one rehearsal. It was all a day. But that really stuck with me too in such a way that I even feel hesitant sometimes where I'm like I don't want to beat myself up as an actor. Because you don't give yourself, you don't give your talent credit if you think, you know, I need to be in pain. Right. Is that something you thought about? Because I've had that conversation with a lot of actors where it's like, whether it's just accumulating,

experience, that's one thing, but also there is this notion that some actors have had it, and it comes into various points in their career where they're like, I have to suffer for my art. Well, that's exactly it, and this is independent of shying out. These are just thoughts I've had myself, but that's exactly how you put it, where there's this

and pressure is the exact word, and so that you know, Sears said to me once, you know, male actors lose their mind at 24 years old, don't lose your mind, and I hate it because I'm like, man, now I'm just waiting for three years. Ticking time off. I didn't hate it all. Actually, I deeply appreciate it in any advice she gives me. But, But no, I told, and this is something I talk about and think about a lot, and certainly, like, in my short experience, I feel like I've already worked with people that can fall prey to that ethos.

And it's very much a thing where people that found success early as it relates to things that weren't infused with dramatic prestige, then feel like, okay, how can I? They still have something to prove to themselves and to the rest of the world. Beyond that, like, I think there's, yeah, I don't know, there's, like, the idea that it can't be fun or something. And the idea isn't to have fun, but, like, I just weren't with, they're not, and you do yourself a disservice. Like, the idea that you, you know, scowl your way through a scene that could have been humorous in the name of, like, Marlon Brando or something. Right. it doesn't make isn't productive

and I just worked with Steve Corrella movie for three months that took more out of me here I am being masquistic but like really took more out of me than any project I've ever been a part of and that was like a three months shoe and that dealt with drug addiction

and just to see how he works and how he so doesn't fall prey to the idea that it's everything or nothing and that he has a family and and and like it's no joke you know

I really wasn't doing these podcasts before. Nobody really cared about what I have to say. Now that I am in this, at least tangentially or a little bit more public, you know, you look at the roadmap for young male actors, even the ones that sort of made it piece together, and it's not great. So I'm even finding, like, there's so many nights now, whether it's, I don't know, like, after parties of sorts, or even if there are no organized things. are just like alcohol everywhere and and you just got to be careful because uh this is this is slippery

slope and this is the time where you want this is the exactly and you feel like you're doing well and also you know my generation and this is why i felt so important to be making a movie like beautiful boy and i don't know what the luck of the universe was that after auditioning for bigger projects for years two things came my way that are smaller and are important stories to tell with really without a degree of pretension i i really feel in like like in and and and as I was you know talking about alcohol like there's such for my you know my age particularly with opiates and pills and things like that but in the music and the culture I was talking about this the other day I was talking about post Malone with with a director I work with his name's

Elijah Bynum he directed a movie on and called Hot Summer Nights and we were talking about hip-hop a little bit and he was saying you know it went from a culture of celebrating distribution to celebration of use which I hadn't that's that's his thought so that's not my thought in case that's wrong no but and I hadn't thought about it in that way before and and you know I wasn't yeah I don't know you see like I feel like I just escaped a pop culture influx that is way more maybe it's the fact that Trump's president or something but is way more like balls to the wall in such a way that there were groups like Nirvana and obviously in the 60s there were a lot of people that You know, in the 27 club, but I feel like now it's, I don't know, maybe it's creepy or maybe it's because it's contemporary, but there's a pressure that is stifling around this stuff that that is also cynical and ascistic in a way that earlier generations, I don't think we're so negative about everything all the time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't know what we're talking about now. I'm curious because, like, it's one thing that I sense from you and it's indicative of like the work that you've done early on your career is that you have a lot of focus it would seem as an actor. And I don't associate focus with teenagers. You're not seeing any more, but you were working throughout your teens. Was acting sort of just like a way, like a kind of a lucky place to kind of channel your focus at the time, you think? Did you kind of like need acting to kind of keep you on the straight and narrow? Or like what did acting fulfill in you early on, you think?

Well, it's changed. And there was a significant change in that I was already working in my senior year of high school. which was a drama high school so that was where I learned and really spent a lot of time at it I was doing Homeland so there was this weird dual approach to acting where I'd be on a set

where you drop everything including even character research and you think okay how does this become presentable as storytelling and then you go back to a classroom where you're still learning and where creating a scene isn't a collaboration with the director but you're being told what to do and directors aren't paying

attention to the way scenes play out but just the truth of the moment. And then when I got, you know, that was attention for me because I went to Columbia for a year when I graduated, all of a sudden it was like it was really, it was, you know, it was the red door, blue door thing, two paths presented themselves

where it was like, okay, are you going to take this seriously? Or like three paths. Take this totally seriously and commit yourself to it fully. Right. Kind of commit to it, but be at Columbia at the same time or just go to school and drop it, which was never really a path anyway.

And being in school thing at the same time, which a lot of actors have done, not again, to be so careful never to be pretentious or anything, but like it just seemed not like the right approach to me. And I really got scared where I made a joke in an interview earlier today where like you get beaten in a good way, you get beaten down to LaGuardia to wear your heart on your sleeve. And the way a lot of people talk about calling by our name is that it's, you know, emotionally, not in an emotive sense, but you just, you know what's going

with the characters. And I joke like that's because it was bred in me almost. And the idea of getting a sense of comfort around academia and not in a prejudiced way, but like there's a certain elitism and influx of money at a place like Columbia that just scared the shit out of me because I thought like dear God I want to become boring and and so then acting became

not what was like therapy in high school in a way of not a cheesy way but like finding yourself as a person but also the idea that you're you know acting in front of girls you have crushes on sometimes just things like that then it was like okay I gotta take this

I gotta take this seriously and then left school when Interstellar came out thinking like okay I got this I got this and like and then never in a way you know and it would be insulting for me to be like the struggle but but in a way where I was like oh oh this I don't know and then did a film called Miss Stevens that dramatically has about as much integrity

as anything I've done and and and it's been really interesting like what it means to me acting it sometimes I almost feel like it's an honorable way to channel a need to and need to be. And there's also the feeling that I couldn't not, which maybe isn't a good reason to do something, but the idea of like even with more graciousness now, certainly I'm trying to get better at it,

because things are going well now, but like when you see billboards of things that you've auditioned for or whatever, and you're like, man, you know, come myself up there. But it's so funny because, as you well know, like you can only steer your career so far. Like I've talked to so many actors with decades, experience even than you and you know for many of them it was just taking the the job that was

available right and you know for you like look there's obviously a tremendous amount of talent of all there's also a degree of luck involved that like these kinds of films are the films that you're immediately now known for where like you know somehow you've missed or or didn't get or didn't want the you know the y a thing or the teen sex comedy thing or the c w show like And some of these things can be okay. They're fine, but they're just, it sounds like they're not even, like, close to necessarily what you wanted. No, in fact, like, the idea was always, because I was up for some of those other projects,

but the idea was like, okay, you do something like that. And then because of the way the laws govern this business, like, then you're more visible. And then you can finance an independent film or whatever in such a way that I have an actor friend who's tremendously talented. I've known for, you know, a couple years now, and is, you know, one of these, I don't want to say, like, masochistic, but, like, really takes his work extremely seriously. And in a way that is very inspiring. And he never wanted to play the publicity game. And I saw him in a movie a couple months ago that he was so good in, but it, like, kind of tore me up to watch it because it just, it felt like in a vacuum or something. And that's why it's important for me to go on something like this and why I'm so thrilled that it's, like, call me by our name. That's the introduction. in such a way that maybe some of these bigger budget things would be like a real dissemination of my image or something. And then to not, you know, not to be like too picky or something, but there are other like, there, there, indies of this nature that are also like introductions that are so self-serious in such a way that, if I may say so myself, I don't think anybody goes to call me by our name, even though it deals a lot with, like, philosophy and all that.

But I don't think exactly the way I just put it philosophy and all that, you know, I don't think, I don't think, feel like people are getting you know preached at and lectured you don't go out the you know you know the credits don't roll and people look around to see like how how they're supposed to gauge it's an emotional response right much as it is intellectual which is why like we'll get asked sometimes about the reception or things down the line and the real truth of an answer is look we didn't make this thing for a bubble like this is something that people viscerally react to and that's and that's the thing that is like stunning to me like you said before like I don't know how it's not some of these bigger projects that I was up for, but rather it's, I almost feel like I circumvented it or

something. And, uh, and then we'll see. I know who goes from here. Maybe it's all downhill from here, but, uh, you know, maybe this interview will be a totem of my youth. I'll listen back on, remember when it all went wrong with a glass of whiskey and a cigarette and I'll be yelling at a vision of my imagination that's not in the room. Give me another drink. No, okay. I used to have this podcast. I was on a podcast for Josh once. Who is a new guy? So, It is interesting, though. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, like talking about these paths that you didn't go down, you were up for Spider-Man, it sounds like. You were in the running.

You were one of the finalists. At the time, was that something that you were passionate about, or was it something like, I mean, you obviously don't say no to an opportunity like that. Well, I was totally torn up because this was that year that I was, you know, I was out of Columbia, I wasn't really working. I you know 19s are weird any age is weird age but that's like the epitome of not quite a kid not quite a adult and I was torn up because my you know that's what there was to think about in such a way that I was always fearing that not fearing but I thought man if I get this how could I say no to it right and with the idea that I had looked at a lot of Andrew Garfield interviews and I don't think Toby

McGuire ever spoke about it publicly this way but Andrew really takes his work very seriously and I saw him in Death of the Salesman when I was 15 with Philip Seymour Hoffman and this is not interview podcast hyper hyperbole like that changed me his performance in that and I've never said that you know anyway nobody cares about these things

anyway or whatever I've never said that and I've been hesitant to say because I now I've even seen him in a couple things so and I've yet to go up to him because I just want to pick the moment where like where I'm randomly feeling like you're confident or something as opposed to like going over there shaking but and and uh and yet i that wasn't that didn't feel like a big warning like i always had the feeling like because it felt like a lottery

or something and those things really are like there's so many people involved in the process there's so many people up for it so but certainly now and not as and not as an uh indication of how it was me because i saw spider my homecoming in fact i watched and i thought yep good on them because that he's the right guy for it and yet if that was the kind of thing now i really don't, I, that would not, you know, I feel a certain pressure and it's a gift that I look at like Heath Ledger or Andrew or Shia or whoever and that there were these like requisites and their youth of like YAA hoops to jump through or something and that somehow there's a gift right now.

Like I said that, look, it's just this project and it's presumptuous to think there'll be anything more but you know you jumped a couple steps you didn't have to go through like you know Shaya will I mean all the people you mentioned are would be very open about it I've talked to Shaya about Transformers a lot and Andrew

as much as he loved Spider-Man I think he has conflicting feelings about how that that and it's actually interesting to talk to Shia by Transformers which I have by the way this is funny like that day we had with where I did meet with Shai and you know he was the one I was like let's read this thing let's go for it and that's funny

I'd never read for Lucca or James. Talk about auditioning. Talk about not having an audition and all of a sudden being like, okay, here's an actor that just from a really beautiful, artistic purity level just wants to read it. Who can go from project to project? And I really can't yet. And I was thinking, oh, man, this doesn't go well.

But, yeah, that was during that period. And he said, dude, you cannot do that film. You know, he said what I would have done, yeah, not to do Transformers. And yet, I watched, you know, after that day, I watched some shy interviews where, He said, you know, he would talk about, like, Michael Bay, like an autore of sorts, which he really is, kind of. I mean, he's a genius in his own way.

And there's some story about film school where it wasn't like PTA. It was, like, some amazing filmmaker. And they all had a short film class and everybody put together, like, these, you know, clever, dialogue-heavy short films. And Michael Bay slapped a camera on the back of his Chevy and just, like, drove around town and then edited it together, like, the most awesome car sequence in the world. I'm seeing Kathleen Kennedy on that poster to Back to the Future right there, a big producer name. So I was with Luca the other night and one of these whatever war things

and Michael Barker who was the head of funny picture classics and they say you know Timothy meet Kathleen Kennedy she's producer and this is genuine

I just don't you know I don't know anything so I said you know what's the I said what are you what are you working on? Well I said you know what's the phone you're here with

and she's kind of stunned and she said uh Star Wars and you know I like if I could have drowned in my shoes and started to swim that would have been

exactly what happened I think I made up for it I think I made up for it And there's always, like, the good thing of, even if it's feigned, of like... Yeah, you... I don't know. You probably earned some cool points with her, actually. Oh, she doesn't need...

He doesn't need me. Maybe I need him. Yeah, exactly. Or she went home and took out that list and X my name of it. No, no. She sketched you as a Jedi Knight in her notebook. So saying that, because, I mean, yeah, as you were saying, like, the choices that you've made and the opportunities that have come allow you now to get some really cool opportunities.

You worked with Corell recently. You just worked on the Woody Allen film. so where are you at now in reconciling the kind of that other path like do you i mean do you have interest in those kinds of films in the star wars and the superhero things at all or are you content to kind of work no that's a great question because because i do like the the scariest thought for me particularly as it relates to like period pieces is the idea that nobody's going to see them and i i really can't stand even at a level of like podcasts or as a listener nerd of podcasts or when I watch late night shows or when I watch interviews and particularly

when you watch movies, what's worse than being bad is being boring and I cannot stand that. And, oh man, I wish I, I want to reference something, but I won't. But like, especially as it relates to independent films or like things that are artistic, if it's boring, that kills me. And I really don't want to be acting in a vacuum. And if this election really illuminated anything, it's that, you know. Unfortunately, the most entertaining candidate, even if they have hardwile ideas. And I didn't even mean it like that. I mean it. Yeah, that's actually, it speaks directly what I'm

talking about, but rather what I'm talking about is that I don't want to act in a bubble. And as it relates to like choosing projects going forward, there's like, I feel a great tension where there's like the act, there's like the personal acting path that, you know, not that anybody would care. But for me, as it relates to what it is for me, like I want to challenge myself. And There are ways to be parts of projects that are experimental and not quote unquote boring, but, you know, a little more not as attuned to the viewer that have great integrity acting wise. And yet, with Call Me By Your Name Now, like, we talk about this visceral feeling, and I don't want to get 12 steps ahead of myself, but like, Beautiful Boy is a movie about addiction and young people dealing with addiction in such a way that there have been movies made about drug addiction, but not the, or to my knowledge, not the Al-Anon experience, not the experience of being a relative or a parent of someone. someone who's going through addiction and so that I've had that experience and a lot of people my age

have had that experience so between that call me by our name which is a movie that as it relates to the you know uh queer canon as I've heard other people talk about it it's great because it celebrates sexuality in such a way where there isn't a repressant and uh uh uh aides or a gang of violent antagonizers so that feels important and new so when I when I look at those two stories and how fresh and tonally, like, visceral they are or something. And then, like I said, with a beautiful boy, I'm getting ahead of myself. Maybe people will see that and be like, oh, right, this is no good. But so then I feel like a responsibility to, like, okay, man, you know, hunker down, you know,

go out for cheap meals because maybe you shouldn't work for a while. So, I don't know. We'll see. Are there, are you a xenophile? Like, have you become one? I mean, are you... Here's the thing, like, people will rag on me sometimes because I don't have the synophiliac, which is not

a different word. That's a weird word. You know, encyclopedic knowledge that a lot of people will have. But, you know, without like airing things people don't want to know, I asked Christian Bail when I was working with him how many movies he watched a year. And the answer was not voluminous.

So... If it's good enough for bail. Yeah. And, yeah, exactly. I think Aaron Eckhart, I interviewed him once. He was, like, I think he said to me he hadn't seen a movie period in like a decade. Not one of his own movies. Like, a movie. Oh, no way, are you serious? Wow. Wow.

That might be the extreme. Don't go that far. That's the extreme. No. No, and the truth is I watch movies all the time. And here's not in a cheesy way again. It can be hard, particularly when I'm shooting something. I never watch anything when I'm shooting something. I'll watch documentaries or I'll watch cartoons because it's just very intimidating. And you don't want to replicate things people are doing. So what's inspiring to me, these old films especially, it feels preachy again. sometimes and you know I don't want to be one I don't want to like

I don't be one of these this is the tension with acting it's like I don't want to act in a vacuum and the gift of being a part of those bigger projects is you really are like disseminated to a younger audience and and I don't like I did a play in New York

called prodigal son for three and a half months that John Patrick Shanley wrote and directed it was about a kid from the Bronx who goes to Catholic school and feels like unheard and unseen and unaccepted and it was like the most amazing experience in my life. It's right before I did call me by her name. I like came of age as an actor on stage before I was able to go out and do this film. And a lot of people saw it and it was like super satisfying. But the majority of the audiences were like you were older

audiences. And like you're talking about something that was hugely successful that John Patrick Stanley, an amazing playwright. And at the end of they, even something like that, what, 50,000 people may have seen it. And most of them were probably 55 and older. And there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, maybe the theater wouldn't survive with that consumer audience. Of course. That's a beautiful thing in its own way. And yet, maybe just because by way of how expensive the tickets were or whatever, because young people, they're not exposed to this stuff as much. I do not want to, like, I don't want to, anyway, I never want to be like, oh, you know, I'm going to do these interesting projects and, you know, be a recluse and not know what a meme is or whatever, you know, like. No, it's a push and a pull.

I mean, you summed it up well. I mean, like, at the end, especially something on Call Me by Your Name where, like, you are, like, feeding off that drug right now of, like, a film that, you know, is touching audiences in such a profound way in each and every screening. And it's like, you probably want more of that. Like, that's something that's... But again, that's why, okay, feels like naive or optimistic

or to think like, okay, I'm going to try to do things like that. But there's the idea that you can do things that are fresh all the time. I would hope. And certainly when I look at, like, a guy like Xavier Dolan is super inspiring to me

because beyond any sense of autonomy, me he really is pushing the envelope and a movie like mommy visually is unlike anything or at least i've ever seen or when you watch something like enter the void or uh or james white which is the movie not a ton of people saw but that's like probably that's maybe my favorite movie now or one of my favorites so uh and so there's this idea of being able to push a boundary in such a way that i don't know maybe it's because i'm like here now and i sense it but when i when I think that Greta Gerwig and the Saffty brothers were roommates in New York. I didn't know that. Is that crazy? That is true. And that Greta made Lady Bird, which is this incredible movie that is so specific tonally and is very much an independent film and yet it voids like all the tropes of indie films or you think they're about to dive into them and they skirt them.

And then Josh Saffty made this crazy movie called Good Time. After this crazy movie called Heaven Knows What and that they were really. roommates and that there was like a flowering there and I feel like okay and then with Xavier or who else and maybe this is like too self-proposizing but I feel like okay here's an opportunity to be making movies that aren't on huge budgets but are like made by yeah they're making it on their own terms it's authentic to them it might not be this there's very little in common beyond them being unique to the filmmaker and then fulfilling their own and like labors of love in such a way that I that that that what a gift for filmmakers pass that you can just kind of talk about whatever. But I find it, not talk about

whatever, but I find whether there's budgetary restrictions or, or like a really intense idea from audiences. And it's, I guess it goes back to Marlon Brando who just started acting like real life. And Merrill Street, we started working with the speech coach in the 70s where things have to be simultaneously real now and like far from self. That's the thing when people haven't been in show business or acting, even at a young age. So I don't know what that is, because I guess the conversation amongst kids was not this in the 30s and 40s. But even for young people now, like 12, 13, 14, when they talk about acting or good performances, it's always like, how real was it, and how far from self was it?

And to that degree, what am I doing? I'm all over the place. I'm rambling, but there's a certain, I don't know what's exciting is the idea, like, push the envelope and don't make it boring, don't, and what's cool, not cool, devastating because Trump's the president. but I really believe like with the like tone like the negative drip over everything now and this like cynicism that is so has so permeated everything we don't even realize it's there anymore that's why I really do think movies like Lady Bird or Call Me By Your Name or Disaster Artist are getting are being received warmly because they're like their celebrations and call me by name is still sad but It's a celebration and it's joyful.

And like even some of the meetings I've had recently, like, not recently. This is all a privilege anyway. Like this is all so amazing. But I feel like you're going to see an aversion towards like even when the little things I've written sometimes and I'm really no writer. It's too easy to write fuck every other word or like or like have such shock value on screen. Again, I'm going to come myself off because I could like talk about something recently I saw. But, like, it's too easy that way. Well, and an aversion, perhaps, to artifice, too, to the glossiness and fakeness.

I mean, we hear, you know, obviously the word of the year is fake news, the term of the year is fake news. But, like, the thing that you talk about, I've heard you talk about, is authenticity, and the actors that you've cited, and that we've talked about a bunch in this conversation are actors that value kind of just, you know, they can't stand a fake moment. And, you know, I've talked before about, like, Kristen Stewart's been, you know, someone I've known for. a while and has been on this podcast a few times. And she's somebody that, like, can't stand BS at all. Like, she'll cut herself off in the middle of a take if it feels the slightest. Oh, yeah. And you can see that interacting. Right. Yeah. So, yeah, I totally agree. Anyway, so, um, on the press side of things, I'm fascinated because, like, this has also been a year where you've probably talked more in this, in this year of your life than the 20 years prior

combined. Right. Has it been an adjustment to kind of become, like, somewhat of a public figure to, you know, you just did your first late-night talk show the other day, like, all this stuff. Is this something, you were talking about, like, the, you know, valuing, being entertaining and not being boring? Right. Is it something that you find, like, do you have an imposter syndrome where you're, like, talking? You're like, why the fuck does anybody care what I'm talking about? Yeah, a little bit. There's that feeling of like, wait a second.

I'm the same guy that I was a year ago, why is everybody? But also the feeling of, like, if I'm here and I'm winging it, that means everybody else is winging it. So that's a really strange feeling. I, you know, it's, there was a weird thing with this film where I was, I had too long to think about the idea that all of a sudden there was going to be a, you know, like a press run and a public side to these things there wasn't before. Because you had like a six-month gap. Yeah, exactly. And then you knew there was this love for it and it was going to ramp up with the ball festival. Well, I mean, you knew, but then you also don't know because things go south all the time.

and and I just I have great like mentors and people that say you know look man expect nothing and like Army who has been on this train many a time so yeah it's a little it's like it's a little I find it to be destabilizing not in the like cliched way where people think it's related to ego or you get like an aggrandized sense of self but rather environments become just unfamiliar And I find what it is is like accepting compliments on camera more than anything because because that's like dehumanizing. I think people see that. And then that's what makes people, I think more than anything, more than like cool clothes or whatever. It's like that is weird because that doesn't happen in real life.

People don't get compliments for no reason. Not to the degree that actors and filmmakers and public figures. Well, because there's the there's the icebreaker at the beginning of the thing and anyway, so like I said, but I feel like it's

a necessary part of the job and I really am like a pop culture fan I took an Andy Warhol class last year in school and certainly would be naive to like want to be like I desire to be a part of this machine now because like I said the roadmap

like even just psychologically is not great amongst you know people that you even work with sometimes and yet like I'm a kid Cuddy fan I'm a Leonardo DiCaprio fan I'm a Kanye fan I don't want to be watching interviews

like why am I trying to bore boring is not the right thing again because it's less to do it's more boredom and less to do with wanting to be entertaining because that's also a big trap so I don't want to people to think that but I don't like want to play the role of like young actor but that's what kind of exciting

and whatever worse like not cool enough for school Like, I'm above it all. I'm about Shakespeare. Right, right. You know? And far beat for me to pry into someone's private life. But, you know, you were in a relationship with a pretty public person by, you know, familial relationship, at least.

Did that help you kind of with perspective on this whole fame and publicity thing, at least being kind of tangentially around that a few years back? Yes and no. No, yes, because there's the exposure to it, but then no, because the person I was with, the whole family, it's just, it's unlike the, the, the public necessity of being an entertainer and a musician is way different than what any actor goes through. In fact, if you follow the Phillips Seymour Hoffman, Daniel Day Lewis, Christian Bale, School of Acting, you're really supposed to stay mysterious, which I'm totally crucifying right now. So, beautiful boys, the next one we're going to see you in presumably? Exactly. Is that going to do the festival circuit, do we know?

I don't know. I think that's, I don't know. I mean, it's totally the feeling I have calling by her name where I got back from Italy and I met with my agency in New York. there was a project we were discussing that maybe I could have done and they were you know they were saying what you think and I said you know I don't know why but I really think this thing we did in Italy this is not the feeling before or during there was no shot call then there was like the opportunity work with luka guys I think we're helled it we're killing it we're killing it no before it was the Luca James

Ivory and Andre Ausman three months in Italy and then after it was like and similarly I don't know it'll be different because just by way of the subject matter that's it's heavy heavy stuff in such a way that calling me by your name isn't so like it's not an upper of a film but but it sounds like you're pretty it has

there's a good feeling surrounding at least the experience of making it it was fucking nuts and and was surreal and like and your mind knows you're acting but when you drop 20 pounds and you're under a rain machine for eight takes and a t-shirt your body

doesn't know you're acting exactly and there was a lot of a lot doctor visits on that movie and a lot of close calls. So crazy. Yeah, I can't fucking wait to see it. And lastly, before I let you go, one of the fun things about this

strange season is, like, I noticed, like, you've done at least one of these, like, kind of actors' roundtable things. Yeah, that's crazy. So, yeah, what is that like to kind of like you're surrounded by the Hugh Jackmans? I don't even know who else was on, like, the roundtable you just did, or like... It's very surreal. And, like, I don't know,

it's... try to find a roadmap for these things, I do not want to be 26 or 31 looking at my peak, you know? And then those roundtable, you know, when the conversation comes my way, which is rare, thankfully rare, because I don't, what do I have to offer amongst, like, legends like that. Denzel could take that one. I know. Danzel was not there. By the way, if Denzel was there, I don't know if I would have been able to sit there because he's one of the guys I've looked up to the most. So, yeah, what do you have to say at those things? Nothing. I mean, you, you, and like, I really, because the conversation at the roundtable I did was like kind of moderator said,

were you guys doing at that age and they all have the or I was working hard or Franco says the McDonald's accent story that I've read in his books or Gary Oldman said I was in theater school or and Hugh Jackman said that too so the unsaid thing in the air is like all right kid

let's see what you have but then with the winning mixture of sincerity and humor you found the secret sauce to get through these things I'm stealing that from, yeah, I'm stealing that from Kumal, who said that at the Hollywood Film Awards. He got up there and he gave a speech that was so funny. And then he said, winning mixture of sincerity and humor, which is hilarious. Well, he's coming in a couple days, too.

Is he really? Yeah, you're part of it. That guy is so funny. And, like, we did another panel with him that was in the Hamptons. It was a variety does this thing called 10 people to watch. And then, so all the actors are outside this hotel. And I was trying to be deferential and polite, particularly as one of the young people there. and so they were sending people in the cars ahead of us

and then I got in the car and then you couldn't make this up like a dog parade of all dog parades crosses and then like the you know so I'm something of a sudden I've been made late to this thing so I get there I'm all frazzled I'm manic say sorry

I'm so sorry like there was a dog parade you wouldn't believe it and they wouldn't let me get in and then he said and then Kumal said he uses that excuse every time and the rest of the panel like I'd bring up I try to like have serious answers like the dog parade guy And he killed me, you know, in a great way.

It was very funny. It was very funny. And afterwards, I said, you know, I said, you know, it was an honor as a fan of Silicon Valley to be roasted up there. And then we're at the Hollywood Film Awards. And he got up there to accept an award for the Big Sick. And I kind of, like, sat back in my seat. And I don't feel like anybody else did it, but I was like, okay, this is going to go down. I feel it.

And sure enough, Ray Romano gets up there, too. And Kamal goes on this whole day where he's like, you know, Ray, I saw you weren't sitting at the big sick table. Saw you sitting with Kate Winslet. You know, how is it over there? And then Ray Romano. of all people gets like flush in the face and I thought this guy I think he's gonna I mean again who might say this has been the theme of this interview but I think he's gonna like skyrocket I think there's gonna be a lot more with him oh he's amazing man oh I'm sure you're getting this advice a lot my one bit

advice that's not brilliant is just you know enjoy this time man this is this is as you well know this is kind of a unique experience with this film in particular for you call me by your name and and and to get a chance to kind of like you know touch audiences and to mix it up with like the best filmmakers and actors on these silly kind of award shows and and mixers. I mean, it has a silly sob, but it's all, it's, you know. No, it's totally surreal. It's great, man. And it's well deserved. It really is. Thank you. And I, and I really am trying to appreciate it. I'm sure we're going to be talking a lot more in the years to come. Congrats again, buddy. And as I said, I'm sure I'll see you a bunch of the next couple months on the, on the circuit. Hopefully.

confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. podcast, you'll hear the true stories of the Salem Witch Trials and the escape attempts from Alcatraz, of bank robbers like John Dillinger and Pretty Boy Floyd, of killers like Lizzie Borden and Charles Starkweather, of mysteries like the Black Dahlia and D.B. Cooper, and of events that inspired movies like Goodfellas, killers of a flower moon, Zodiac, Eight Men Out, and many more. I'm Chris Wimmer. Join me as we crisscrossed the country from the Miami drug wars and Dixie Mafia in the South, to mobsters in Chicago and New York, to arsonists,

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