Happy Sad Confused - Timothee Chalamet (2017)

Episode Date: March 4, 2024

He's at the top of the box office again with DUNE: PART 2 but back in 2017 Timothee Chalamet was just coming into his own. In this flashback episode of the podcast listen to Chalamet talk about his roots, his aspirations, and hopes for the future. It's a rare snapshot of one of the most important actors of our time. SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! ZocDoc -- Go to ⁠Zocdoc.com/HappySad⁠ and download the Zocdoc app for FREE Factor -- Head to FactorMeals.com/HappySad50 and use code happysad50 to get 50% off UPCOMING LIVE EVENTS Sydney Sweeney March 20th in NYC -- https://www.92ny.org/event/sydney-sweeney Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes of, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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The scariest thought for me, particularly as it relates to, like, period pieces, is the idea that nobody's going to see them. And I really can't stand, even at a level of, like, podcasts, or as a listener to podcasts, or when I watch late night shows, or when I watch interviews, and particularly when you watch movies, what's worse than being bad is being boring, and I cannot stand that. And especially as it relates, like, independent films or, like, things that are artistic. If it's boring, that kills me. And I really don't want to be acting in a vacuum. film. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. I'm Josh Horowitz, and today on Happy, Sad, Confused, it's Timothy Shalmay himself. That's right, Willy Wonka, Paul Atreides, and so many more memorable characters, joins me in this

flashback episode of the podcast. Hey, guys, thanks so much for joining me, as always. This is a special bonus episode of the podcast, and it felt like a good opportunity to bring this one out of the vaults. It was popular at the time, but a lot of people have not heard this conversation. This is me and Timmy Chalmay recorded back in late 2017. December of 2017, he visited me in my office for a super casual chat. It was off camera, so you're just going to get the audio for this, but I think it makes it all the more intimate, to be honest. It's really a moment in time. This is when Timmy had Call Me By Your Name Out, Hostels was out, Lady Bird was out, Lady Bird was It was all happening for him then and really set him on this fantastic path that he has not looked back on.

And you're going to get a real sense of him. I listened back to this and I was just struck by what I fell in love with him right from the start. Enthusiasm, passion for acting, for film, for New York City. We share a lot in common in terms of our backgrounds. So I think you're going to love this. I really do. And especially now with Dune Part 2 out. I expect many of you have seen the film by now.

I've seen it twice myself. It's fantastic. It is epic as a geek, as a Dune fan, as a Timmy fan, as a Deneve-Vil Nouve fan. This one needs to be seen on the big screen. So if you haven't already, check it out. So, yeah, this is an opportunity to, again, just kind of get a sense of our, I don't know, is he our most exciting actor in his generation? It might be Timothy Shalmi right now.

So I wanted to share that with you today. get to the main event, one other reminder. If you are in the New York City area, we do these a lot in person when we can, and we have a really cool one coming up March 20th, 92nd Street Y, me and Sydney Sweeney. Talk about up-and-coming actors, like in their moment, coming off of SNL, coming off of anyone but you, and now with her new horror film Immaculate, it'll be a really fun special night, March 20th, 7 p.m., 92nd Street Y, The link is in the show notes to get your tickets. Get them now.

They're going fast. I hope to see you guys there. Okay, but let's get to the main event. It's Timmy's time and your time to enjoy it. Here is me back in late 2017, I believe, December of 2017, me and Mr. Timothy, Chalomey. Thank you, Sholome. Good to see you, buddy.

Thanks for having me. And good to see you after meeting you in Toronto for the first time. Yeah, Toronto was our first meeting. You know, I think I've said it at least a couple times to you. I'm in love with. this movie, as you've heard from many others. And I'm talking to all your friends. I just had Army on last week.

Stolbarg's coming in tomorrow. Oh, I didn't know that. Fantastic. Yeah. I'm a little intimidated by Stilbarg. Stobarg, okay, I had the same experience. I was extremely intimidated by him, and we did a couple rehearsals that left me feeling all the more intimidated.

And I'd seen him in a play called the Pillow Man in New York when I was 12 by Martin McDonough. That was, again, all the more intimidating. And then I went on YouTube, and it's like the curse of being an actor or something these days, but all you have to do is type someone's name followed by EPK.

Right. And then everyone's humanized. Yeah, and he's also, it seems like, yeah, I've been watching some interviews with him. He seems like no soft-spoken sweetest guy. That's what is, that's what's so destabilizing is because he has played some really intense. Not in Call Me By Her Name. He plays, like, the best father on the planet. But, yeah, in other films, he's really intense or plays.

I just watched a serious man this morning, just because it'd been in a while. He's so incredible in that movie. And people say that's like the Cohen Brothers film that is, you know, the most parallel to what their existence would have been growing up exactly what their father would have been yeah right so okay so a lot to talk about with you despite uh you being perhaps the youngest guest on happy say confused thus far i didn't know that is that true i think so i think if not you're you're certainly in the top three great so uh congrats on that distinction thank you but you've been making up for uh the lack of years you've made up for in a lot of work particularly in this last year that you should be very proud of thank you appreciate i've seen i've seen two of the three films lady bird i'm in love with as well of course i love that movie And I'm seeing hostiles this week, so we'll also love that movie, yeah. So what a weird trifactor, right? Totally they, none of them fit in with each other. And hostiles seems like the definite outlier, right?

Yeah, hostiles is the definite outlier. I mean, I guess there are, you know, it's two coming of age stories that, uh. Period. Both period. Yes, yes. And hostels is period too, but it's very much not a coming of age, unless Christian Bale is coming of age. But he's not, I've seen it, and it's not a coming of age story.

By the way, it pains me to no end that I'm calling both a ladybird and call me by your name period film since i unlike you have grown up through both of those periods no ladybird i would have grown up through and certainly like i guess i would have only been five or six years old but i have distinct memories of back street boys you know cd covers or you know brittany spear what would it have been one of her first albums i mean we i went to tower records and my mom and my sister on 65th street when i was like seven or six years old yeah and my sister was getting a bruny spears album and i went i went for get rich or die trying and and my sister, I remember, like, chastised my mom

because there was the explicit warning on it. I missed that tower. I grew up on the Upper West Side. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Would you go to elementary school? I went to PS 87. That's where I went.

I went to PS 87. Are you kidding me? I'm not kidding at all. What? No, amazing. So, who did I have for kindergarten? She's probably, like, dead by now. I'm, like, decades older than you.

I don't even remember her last name. My God, you're putting me on the spot. Where did you go to junior high? Wait, let's go through the teachers. Let's go to the teachers. None of the teachers are still there. Okay, Ms. Davis, I'm 40-year-old. Did you have Ms. Davis?

No, are you kidding? Why are we comparing you're 20 years younger than me? Okay, fair, fair. You don't make me so sad. Okay, all right. Junior high, which is middle school, not to aid you, but no, would have been Delta. Okay. Which is in the Booker 2 Washington building on the Upper West Side, and that was a miserable, miserable three years.

That's not the one, because I went across the street. I don't know what it's been called now, I has 44 at the time. But no, no, no, that's 70. That's, no, that's, oh, no, no, oh, yeah. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yes. Ice 44 is the middle school that's across the street from PS-87. There's also computer school around there.

Is that where you went? No, but when I went to middle school, junior high, whatever we want to call it, they had just split it up into, like, the computer school, and there were a couple other, like, kind of sub-schools part of Ice School. Right, because in New York City they're always doing. They're always taking these big buildings that were, like, made in the 20s or 30s, and they stick four different programs with fancy names in them, like, you know, school or whatever, some specific thing.

When would you go to high school? I went to Stuyvesant for a year You went to Stuyvesant, okay We're on a podcast, I'm not going to crack a bunch of jokes But they kicked me out because I never went to school Oh, you got kicked out I got kicked out because I'm the saddest Never Do Well ever

I spent my freshman year I didn't smoke, drink, do anything bad I just didn't go to class So they kicked me out And my parents had to fork over Big Bucks and send me to Dalton for three years Oh my gosh, yeah I have great friends I went to Dalton

Yeah but yeah wow Getting kicked out of Stuyvesant That's like the New York City equivalent of Zuckerberg, like dropping out of Harvard or something. Slavson is a, yeah, smarty-pants school, but clearly I couldn't cut it. Stabstance, like, for those listening that don't know it, is the best school in New York that is incredibly hard to get into. So I didn't realize we had this many powerless. This is cool. So where did you grow up in the city?

I grew up in Hell's Kitchen on 43rd and 9th. Okay, nice. And your parents are still here in town? My parents are still here, yeah. And a little bit back and forth with France. Got it. Okay. So talk to me a little bit because I'm a New York.

City snob, and it ends up coming up a lot in conversations here. Do you feel like I mean, we're all obviously defined by where we grew up. How do you feel like New York defines you? I love that question, because I take an inordinate amount of, like, baseless pride and the fact that I'm from New York.

Nothing you had control over, but you're going to see... No, you just from it, but as relates to the identity thing, that's really a huge part of acting for me or the ability for myself, not necessarily for audiences, because that's their distinction to make and their report card to fill out. But it's always helped me, like a real sense of ambiguity, personally, about where I'm from.

And, you know, my mom's from New York. My grandparents are from the Bronx. My great-grandparents on my mom's side were Russian immigrants, Jewish, that were kind of fleeing, not kind of, we're fleeing persecution. And on my dad's side, we're French, you know, Protestants, not from, like, Paris, France, but, like, from, you know, Saint-Etienne or, you know, these are, um, also beautiful areas, but it's not the, you know, Parisian, uh, landscape that, that's Americanized. Yes. Yes. Exactly. And, and so like I said, it, there's, uh, I want to say there's a feeling of envy when I see people that really know themselves, but there really isn't. Like, I, I love this feeling of, I have no clue who I am. And what's thrilling is thrilling or maybe destabilizing

or ultimately not a great thing, but that like, I'm kind of figuring out while doing these films. And And already, like I did a movie called Miss Stevens when I was 19, and already it's so true, you know, it's interesting for me to go back and watch that. And I see a version of myself that isn't false, but just isn't who I am today. Sure. Well, you're in particular, like, you know, not to like make you, put you in a place in terms of your age, but you're at this period of time where you're evolving, probably at a rapid rate. No, it's these days I watch call me by her name and I'm like, oh, man, I look so young. Yes, I've aged significantly. The stress, the stress of show business at a young age.

Well, and it's also obviously been a surreal bizarre year, to say the least, that I guess probably kicked off with Sundance would call me by your name. Yeah, it's exactly. It's so, yeah, it's been, it's been, it's so weird. This is the stuff you dream about. And I say that non-contrast with the experiences, because the experience has been absolutely awesome. Yeah.

And yet, it's, it is totally weird. And particularly with Sundance, because as a. a young actor, like I did a TV show called Homeland, and then the idea was that I maybe could have done some television shows around that, but the idea is like, okay, I'm going to swing for the fences. And the way you do that is to, you know, do independent films with directors that are already established or look to be, you know, exciting. And really, like, the email, you know, pattern almost is like, you know, this will go to Sundance or this will be a big at Sundance and I was a part of a number of projects that even some that were developed at the

Sundance lab too in fact that that weren't at Sundance so it becomes a holy grail of sorts and it was and the tremendous irony is the is the you know commonality tone they try to infuse with that festival and then it's just like ah we're all just here and it's just a normal experience and we're all wearing plaid shirts and yet like their deals being made for you know absurd some money so yeah it's been a weird year well and also the fact that this one in particular, call me by your name, has been years in the making, not only by you, but by filmmakers, James Ivory, et cetera, have all been trying to kind of, like, figure out how to get this off the ground with different permutations of cast, et cetera.

And you were attached to it for, what, three or four years? Yeah, when I was 17. But in that way, and it also helped the production of it and the making of it. And so that I didn't audition for someone a week before I started and had the feeling, okay, I have to match the audition. But rather, I had known Luca for four years before we started shooting. I hung out with James Ivory a week upstate in New York and we went through his films. Like, there was such a preparation in this. And then there was the Europeanisms to this character that I had not addressed in performance before. All the European parts of myself, I associated with, not like, repression, but certainly not the outgoingness that is fed as a young person growing up in New York or at a middle school where it's very academic. And the only outlet for any sort of attention is to make the biggest fool yourself as possible. And so to be acting in French, even, it was so weird because it felt like worlds colliding. And there wasn't like these ideas or the identity of this character and how I relate to it still hasn't, you know, metamorphosize if that's a word in my head.

And it's really in watching it that there's the strongest identity to the thing. It must also be like a double-edged sword when you were like attached to a project that early on where like, you know, you can accumulate all this experience and you're understanding. of the character and the project can evolve at the same time in the back of your head you're like this could still fall apart maybe i'm going to get too old maybe the filmmaker's going to come and go that happens all the time or like james ivory was supposed to direct it and lucca was producing it and james i knew wanted me to be elio in it and then it came time for luca to direct it and then and then there wasn't really a conversation around it and i just kind of stayed the lead but it was actually in a q and a other day i think i forget what the question was that set it up but luka alluded to someone bringing up the fact that I was cast as Elio when he was made director and the idea being floated to him and he confirmed it and he went okay this is a cool idea but it was it was floated to him

there was the moment where you could have been like no I'm gonna open this up I mean it's not out of the question when a filmmaker comes on board as a director they want to present their wholly unique vision and to inherit another person's actor and Lucas certainly signed Luca cast me in fact I met with him before I met with James Ivory. He was like producer, exactly. He was kind of co-directed or something. There were different permutations, right?

I think at that point he was developing it, or I think you might have already been co-directing it, but certainly like he gave me the stamp of approval, even first, like I said, I might think. But, you know, when it came time and actually doing it, yeah, there was a second conversation, second thought process. Were there other actors that you met with or talked to besides Army? Because I remember, like, Shio was mentioned. I don't know if he was, that was for that part or what.

Did you get a chance to kind of mix it up with other actors along the way? yeah I mean we yes exactly we we did a number of rehearsals with Shaya who was and is like one of my favorite actors and it's just so inspiring a lot because I'm I'm a I go way back with Shia and I'm a huge admirer of his because he gets misunderstood a lot he's just so passionate about what he does yeah and not in a masochistic or romanticizing way that's part of the appeal as a performer as an actor I can't even really tell I mean because when you when I watch an infomaniac or American Honey you that mystery and that and that and that and that mystery is like not even almost good enough a word but that's what I can get to right now is just it's so tangible on screen it brings a ronis where it's like wait is this is this happening like there's like a tangible like danger to his performances that is palpable right yeah it jumps off the screen so what was his take on the character much different than armies that would have been well we didn't you know the truth

is I wouldn't even I wouldn't even be able to give you a succinct answer on that because it never progressed beyond a stage where if we were reading scenes together our heads weren't in the page and like we didn't know our lines which is fair because it was like a year

away from being made or something but no it's like you said it's like in all his films there's a certain rawness and he had just worked with Gary Oldman on a film

so he was kind of bringing that ethos in the you know we just had one meeting and one rehearsal. It was all a day. But that really stuck with me too in such a way that I even feel hesitant sometimes where I'm like I don't want to beat myself up as an actor because you don't give yourself, you don't give your talent credit if you think, you know, I need to be in pain. Right. Is that something you thought about? Because I've had that conversation with a lot of actors where it's like, whether it's just accumulating life experience, that's one thing.

But also there is this notion that some actors have had it and comes into various points in their career where they're like I have to suffer for my art. Well that's exactly it and this is independent of shying out. These are just thoughts I've had myself but that's exactly how you put it where there's and pressure is the exact word and so that you know search has said to me once

you know male actors lose their mind at 24 years old don't lose your mind and I hate it because I'm like man now I'm just waiting for three years ticking time off. I didn't hate it all actually I deeply appreciate it any advice she gives me but but no I told and this something I talk about and think about a lot and certainly in my short experience I feel like I've already worked with people that can fall prey to that ethos and it's very much a thing where people that found success early as it relates to things that weren't infused with dramatic prestige then feel like okay how can I um they still have something to prove to themselves but beyond that like I think there's

yeah I don't know there's like the idea that it can't be fun or something and the idea isn't to have fun but they're not exclusive they're not and you do yourself a disservice like the idea that you you know scow your way through a scene that could have been humorous right in the name of like marlin brando or something right doesn't make as doesn't isn't productive and I just work with Steve Correllan movie for three months that took more out of me. Here I am being mesquistic, but like really took more out of me than any project you've ever been a part of. And that was like a three-month shoe and that dealt with drug addiction. And just to see how he works and how he so doesn't fall prey to the idea that it's everything or nothing and that

he has a family. And, and like, it's no joke, you know. I really wasn't doing these podcasts before. Nobody really cared about what I have to say. Now that I am, in this, at least tangentially or a little bit more public, you know, you look at the roadmap for young male actors, even the ones that sort of made it piece together, and it's not great. So I'm even finding, like, there's so many nights now, whether it's, I don't know, like, after parties of sorts, or even if there are no organized things, are just like alcohol everywhere. And you just got to be careful because,

uh this is slippery slope yeah it's a slippery slippery slope and this is the time where you want to this is exactly and you feel like you're doing well and also you know my generation and this is why i felt so important to be making a movie like beautiful boy and i don't know what the luck of the universe was that after auditioning for bigger projects for years two things came out of way that are smaller and are important stories to tell with really without a degree of pretension i i really feel and like in and and as I was you know talking about alcohol like there's such for my you know my age particularly with opiates and pills and things like that but in the music in the culture I was talking about this the other day I was talking about post Malone with with a director I work with

his name's Elijah Bynum he directed a movie on then called hot summer nights and we were talking about hip-hop a little bit and he was saying you know it went from a a culture of celebrating distribution to celebration of use, which I hadn't, that's, that's his thought, so that's not my thought in case that's wrong. And I hadn't thought about it in that way before. And, you know, I wasn't, yeah, I don't know. You see, like, I feel like I just escaped a pop culture influx that is way more, maybe it's the fact that Trump's president or something, but is way more, like, balls to the wall

in such a way that there were groups like Nirvana, and obviously in the 60s, there were a lot of people that, you know, in the 27 club, but I feel like now it's, I don't know, maybe it's creepy or maybe it's because it's contemporary, but there's a, there's a pressure that is stifling around this stuff that, that is also cynical and masquistic in a way that earlier generations, I don't think we're so negative about everything all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I don't know what we're talking about now. No, no, it's good.

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And don't forget to hit the follow button. One thing that I sense from you, and it's indicative of the work that you've done early on in your career, is that you have a lot of focus, it would seem, as an actor. And I don't associate focus. with teenagers. You're not teaching anymore, but you were working throughout your teens. Was acting sort of just like a way, like a kind of a lucky place to kind of channel your focus at the time you think? Did you kind of like need acting to kind of keep you on the straight and narrow?

Or like what did acting fulfill in you early on, you think? Well, it's changed. And there was a significant change in that I was already working in my senior year of high school, which was a drama high school. so that was where I learned and really spent a lot of time at it. I was doing Homeland, so there was this weird dual approach

to acting where I'd be on a set where you drop everything, including even character research, and you think, okay, how does this become presentable as storytelling? And then you go back to a classroom where you're still learning, and where creating a scene isn't a collaboration with the director, but you're

being told what to do, and directors aren't paying attention to the way scenes play out, but just the truth of the moment. And then when I got, you know, that was the tension for me because I went to Columbia for a year when I graduated all of a sudden it was like it was really, it was, you know, it was the red door, blue door thing, two paths presented themselves where it was like,

okay, are you gonna take this seriously? Or like three paths. Take this totally seriously and commit yourself to it fully. Kind of commit to it, but be at Columbia at the same time or just go to school and drop it, which was never really a path anyway.

And being in school thing at the same time which a lot of actors have done, not again, like I want to be so careful never to be pretentious or anything, but like it just seemed not like the right approach to me and I really got scared where I made a joke in an interview earlier today where like you get beaten, in a good way

you get beaten down to LaGuardia to wear your heart on your sleeve and the way a lot of people talk about calling by our name is that it's you know emotionally, not in an emotive sense, but you just you know what's going on with the characters and I joke like that's because it was bred in me almost and the idea of getting a sense of comfort around academia and not in a prejudiced way

but like there's a certain elitism and influx of money at a place like Columbia that just scared the shit out of me because I thought like dear God I want to become boring and um and uh so then acting became not what was like therapy in high school in a way of not a cheesy way but like finding yourself as a person but also the idea that you're you know acting in front of girls you have crushes on sometimes just things like that uh then it was like okay i got to take this i got to take this seriously and then left school when Interstellar came out thinking like okay

I got this I got this and like and then never in a way you know and it would be insulting for me to be like ah the struggle but but in a way where I was like oh this I don't know and then I did a film called

Miss Stevens that dramatically has about as much integrity as anything I've done and and it's been really interesting like what it means to me acting sometimes I almost feel like it's an honorable way to channel a need to and need to be

and there's also the feeling that I couldn't not which maybe isn't a good reason to do something but the idea of like even with more graciousness now certainly I'm trying to get better at it

but because things are going well now but like you see billboards of things that you've auditioned for or whatever and you're like man you know but it's also so funny

because as you well know you can only steer your career so far like I've talked to so many actors with decades more experience even than you. And, you know, for many of them, it was just taking the job that was available. And, you know, for you, like, look,

there's obviously a tremendous amount of talent involved. There's also a degree of luck involved that, like, these kinds of films are the films that you're immediately now known for where, like, you know, somehow you've missed or didn't get or didn't want the, you know, the Y.A. thing or the teen sex comedy thing or the CW show.

And some of these things can be okay. They're fine. But it sounds like they're not even like close to necessarily what you wanted. No, in fact, like the idea was always, because I was up for some of those other projects. But the idea was like, okay, you do something like that. And then because of the way the laws govern this business,

like then you're more visible. And then you can finance an independent film or whatever in such a way that I have an actor friend. who's tremendously talented and I've known for a couple years now and is one of these I don't want to say like masochistic but like really takes his work

extremely seriously and in a way that is very inspiring and he never wanted to play the publicity game and I saw him in a movie a couple months ago that he was so good in but it like kind of tore me up to watch it because it just it felt like in a vacuum or something

and that's why it's important for me to go on something like this and why I'm so thrilled that it's like me by our name. That's the introduction in such a way that maybe some of these bigger budget things would be like a real dissemination of my image or something. And then to not, you know, not to be like too picky or something, but there are other like, they're indies of this nature that are also like introductions that are so self-serious in such a way that if I may say so myself, I don't think anybody goes to call me by our name, even though it deals a lot with like philosophy and all that. But I don't think exactly the way I just,

put it philosophy and all that you know i don't feel like people are getting you know preached at and lectured you don't go out the you know the credits don't roll and people look around to see like how how they're supposed to gauge it it's an emotional response as much as it is intellectual which is why like we'll get asked sometimes about the reception or things down the line and the real truth of an answer is look we didn't make this thing for a bubble like this is something that people viscerally react to and that's and that's the thing that is like stunning to me like you said before like i don't know how it's not some of these bigger projects i was up for but rather it's i almost feel like i circumvented it or something and uh and then we'll see i know who goes

from here maybe it's all downhill from here you know maybe this interview will be a totem of my youth i'll listen back on remember when it all went wrong with a glass of whiskey and a cigarette and i'll be yelling at a vision of my imagination that's not in the room give me another drink no okay i used to have this podcast i was on a podcast from josh one who is a new guy. So it is interesting, though. I mean, if I'm wrong, like talking about these paths that you didn't go down,

you were up for Spider-Man, it sounds like. You were in the running. You were one of the finalists. At the time, was that something that you were passionate about? Or was it something like, I mean, you obviously don't say no to an opportunity like that. Well, I was totally torn up because this was that year that I was, you know,

I was out of Columbia, I wasn't really working. I you know 19s are weird any age is weird age but that's like the epitome of not quite a kid not quite a adult and I was torn up because my you know that's what there was to think about in such a way that I was always fearing that not fearing but I thought man if I get this how could I say no to it right and with the idea that I had looked at a lot of Andrew Garfield interviews. And I don't think Toby McGuire ever spoke about it publicly this way, but Andrew really takes his work very seriously. And I saw him in Death of a Salesman when I was 15 with

Philip Seymour Hoffman. And this is not interview podcast hyper hyperbole. Like that changed me. His performance in that. And I've never said that, you know, anyway, nobody cares about these things. Or whatever. I've never said that. And I've been hesitant to say because I, now I've even seen him in a couple things. And I've yet to go up to him because I just want to pick the moment where like where I'm randomly feeling like you're confident or something as opposed to like going over there shaking but and and uh and yet i that wasn't that didn't feel like a big warning like i always had the feeling like because it felt like a lottery or something and those things really are like there's so many people involved in the process there's so many people up for it so but certainly

now and not as and not as an indication of how it was me because i saw spider my homecoming in fact i watched and i thought yep good on them because that he's the right guy for it and yet if that was the kind of thing now i really don't i that would not you know i feel a certain pressure and it's a gift that i look at like heath ledger or andrew or shya or um or whoever and that there were these like requisites and their youth of like y a hoops to jump through or something and that somehow there's a gift right now like i said that look it's just this project and it's presumptuous to think there'll be anything more but you know

you jumped a couple steps you didn't have to go through like Shaya will I mean all the people you mentioned are would be very open about it I've talked to Shaya about Transformers a lot and Andrew as much as he loved Spider-Man I think he has conflicting feelings about how that and it's actually interesting to talk to Shia

about Transformers which I have by the way this is funny like that day we had with where I did meet with Shai and you know he was the one I was like let's read this thing you know let's go for it and that's funny because I'd never read for Luke or James. Talk about auditioning. Talk about not having an audition and all of a sudden being like,

okay, here's an actor that just from a really beautiful, artistic purity level just wants to read it. Who can go from project to project? And I really can't yet. And I was thinking, oh, man, this doesn't go well. But, uh, uh, yeah, that was during that period. And he said, dude, you cannot do that film, you know.

He said, what I would have done, yeah, not to do Transformers. And yet I watched, you know, after that day, I watched some shy interviews. where he said, you know, he would talk about, like, Michael Bay, like an auteur of sorts, which he really is, kind of. I mean, he's a genius in his own way. And there's some story about film school where it wasn't like PTA. It was like some amazing filmmaker, and they all had a short film class and everybody put together

like these, you know, clever, dialogue-heavy short films. And Michael Bay slapped a camera on the back of his Chevy and just, like, drove around town and then edited together, like the most awesome car sequence in the world. I'm seeing Kathleen Kennedy on that poster to Back to the Future right there. Big producer name. So I was with Luke Gid the other night and one of these whatever war things

and Michael Barker was the head of Sunday Special Classics and they say you know Timothy meet Kathleen Kennedy she's a producer and this is genuine I just don't

you know I don't know anything so I said you know what's the I said what are you what are you working on? Well I said you know what's the phone you're here with and she just kind of stunned

and she said Star Wars and you know I like if I could have drowned in my shoes and started to swim that would have been exactly what happened

I think I made up for it I think I made up for it I think I made up for it. And there's always, like, the good thing of, even if it's feigned, of like... Yeah, I don't know. You probably earned some cool points with her, actually. Oh, she doesn't need... He doesn't need me.

Or she went home and took out that list and X my name of it. She sketched you as a Jedi Knight in her notebook. So saying that, because, I mean, yeah, as you were saying, like, the choices that you've made and the opportunities that have come allow you now to get some really cool opportunities. You worked with Corell recently. He's worked on the Woody Allen film. So where are you at now in reconciling that other path? Like, do you, I mean, do you have interest in those kinds of films in the Star Wars and the superhero things at all?

Or are you content to kind of work? No, that's a great question because I do. Like, the scariest thought for me, particularly as it relates to, like, period pieces, is the idea that nobody's going to see them. And I really can't stand, even at a level of, like, podcasts or as a listener to podcasts, or as a listener to podcasts. podcasts or when I watch late night shows or when I watch interviews and particularly when you watch movies, what's worse than being bad is being boring and I cannot stand that. And, oh man, I wish I, I want to reference something, but I won't. But like, especially as it relates to like independent films or like things that are artistic,

if it's boring, that kills me. And I really don't want to be acting in a vacuum. And if this election really illuminated anything, it's that, you know. Unfortunately, they must have an entertaining candidate, even if they have horrible ideas. And I didn't even mean it like that. I mean it. Yeah, that's actually, it speaks directly what I'm talking about. But rather what I'm talking about is that I don't want to act in a bubble.

And as it relates to like choosing projects going forward, there's like I feel a great tension where there's like the act. There's like the personal acting path that, you know, not that anybody would care. But for me, as it relates to what it is for me, like I want to challenge myself. And there are ways to be parts of projects that are experimental. and not quote-unquote boring, but, you know, a little more not as attuned to the viewer that have great integrity acting-wise. And yet, with Call Me By Your Name Now, we talk about this visceral feeling, and I don't want to get 12 steps ahead of myself, but like, Beautiful Boy is a movie about addiction and young people dealing with addiction in such a way that there have been movies made about drug addiction, but not the, to my knowledge, not the Al-Anon experience, not the experience of being a relative or a parent of someone who's going through addiction. and so that I've had that experience and a lot of people my age have had that experience.

So between that, call me by our name, which is a movie that, as it relates to the, you know, queer canon, as I've heard other people talk about it, it's great because it celebrates sexuality in such a way where there isn't a repressant and AIDS or a gang of violent antagonizers. So that feels important in news. So when I look at those two stories,

and how fresh and tonally, like, visceral they are or something. And then, like I said, with a beautiful boy, I'm getting ahead of myself. Maybe people will see that and be like, oh, but if it feels right, this is no good. But so then I feel like a responsibility to like, okay, man, you know, hunker down, you know, go out for cheap meals because maybe you shouldn't work for a while. So, I don't know. We'll see. Hey, Michael. Hey, Tom.

Well, big news to share it, right? Yes, huge. Monumental. Shaking. Heartbeat sound effect, big. Mates is back. That's right. After a brief snack nap. We're coming back. We're picking snacks. We're eating snacks. We're raiding snacks.

Like the snackologist we were born to be. Mates is back. Mike and Tom, eat snacks. Wherever you get your podcast. Unless you get them from a snack machine, in which case, call us. Sticklish business anyway. look at it. Come on, we'll stick together. Love movies? Love classic movies?

So do we. Tick Bush Business is the podcast where classic film is discussed in modern times. Hosted by me, film hearing is Kristen Lopez and my co-host, author Emily Edwards. We dive into the golden age of cinema with fun, heart, and serious expertise. As published film historians

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because staying informed shouldn't feel overwhelming. Are you a Cidophile? Have you become one? I mean, are you... Here's the thing, like, people will rag on me sometimes because I don't have the synophiliac, which is not a different word. That's a weird word.

You know, encyclopedic knowledge that a lot of people will have. But, you know, without, like, airing things people don't want to know, I asked Christian Bail when I was working with them how many movies he watched a year. And the answer was not voluminous. So...

If it's good enough for Bail. Yeah, and... I think Aaron Eckhart, I interviewed him once. He was like, I think he said to me he hadn't seen a movie period in like a decade. Not one of his own movies, like a movie. Oh, no way.

Are you serious? Wow. Wow. That might be the extreme. Don't go that far. That's extreme. No. No, the truth is I watch movies all the time.

And here's not in a cheesy way again. It can be hard, particularly when I'm shooting something, and never watch anything when I'm shooting something. I'll watch documentaries or I'll watch cartoons because it's just very intimidating and you don't want to replicate things people are doing. So what's inspiring to me, these like old films especially it feels preachy again sometimes and you know you know

I don't want to be one I don't want to like I don't be one of these this is the tension with acting is like I don't want to act in a vacuum and the gift of being a part of those bigger projects is you really are like disseminated to a younger audience and and and and I don't like I did a play in New York called prodigal son for three and a half months that John Patrick Shanley wrote and directed. It was about a kid from the Bronx goes to Catholic school and feels like unheard and unseen and unaccepted. And it was like the most amazing experience in my life. It's right before I did call me by her name. I like came of age as an actor on stage before I was able to go out and do this film. And a lot of people saw it and it was like super

satisfying. But the majority of the audiences were like you were older audiences. Like you're talking about something that was hugely successful that John Patrick Shanley, an amazing playwright. And at the end of the day, even something like that, what, 50,000 people may have seen it and most of them were probably 55 and older and there's nothing wrong with that in fact maybe the theater wouldn't survive with that consumer audience literally and it's a beautiful thing in its own way and yet maybe just because by way of how expensive the tickets were or whatever because young people they're not exposed to this stuff as much i do not want like i don't want to anyway i never want to be like uh you know i'm going to do these interesting projects and you know

uh be a recluse and not know what a meme is or whatever you know like no it's a push and a pull I mean, you summed it up well. I mean, like, at the end, especially something on Call Me by Your Name, where, like, you are, like, feeding off that drug right now of, like, a film that, you know, is touching audiences in such a profound way in each and every screening. And it's like, you probably want more of that. Like, that's something that's... But again, that's why, okay, it feels like naive or optimistic or to think, like, okay, I'm going to try to do things like that. But, but there's the idea that you can do things that are fresh, all this. time, I would hope. And certainly when I look at

a guy like Xavier Dolan is super inspiring to me because beyond any sense of autonomy, he really is pushing the envelope. And a movie like Mommy visually is unlike anything or at least I've ever seen. Or when you watch something like Enter the Void

or James White, which is the movie not a ton of people saw but that's like probably, that's maybe my favorite movie now or one of my favorites. And so there's this idea of being able to push a boundary in such a way that, I don't know, maybe it's because I'm like here now and I sense it,

but when I think that Greta Gerwig and the Saffty brothers were roommates in New York and... I don't know that. Is that true? That's crazy. That is true. And that Greta made Lady Bird, which is this incredible movie that is so specific tonally and is very much an independent film and yet

it voids like all the tropes of indie films or you think they're about to dive into them and they skirt them. And then Josh Saffty made this crazy movie called Good time after this crazy movie called Heaven knows what and that they were roommates and that there was like a flowering there and I feel like okay and then with Xavier or who else and maybe this is like too self-proposizing but I feel like okay here's an opportunity to be making

movies that aren't on huge budgets but are like made by yeah they're making it on their own terms it's authentic to them it might not be the there's very little in common beyond them being unique to the filmmaker and then fulfilling their own and like labors of love in such a way that I that that that what a gift for filmmakers pass that you can just kind of talk about whatever but I find it I not talk about whatever but I find what it was budgetary restrictions or or like a really intense idea from audiences and it's I guess it goes back to Marlon Brando who just started acting like real life and Merrill Street we started working with the speech goes in the 70s where things have to be simultaneously really

real now and like far from self that's the thing when people haven't been in show business or acting even at a young age so i don't know what that is because i guess the conversation amongst kids was not this in the 30s and 40s but even for young people now like 12 13 14 when you talk about acting or good performances it's always like how real was it and how far from self was it right and to that degree what am i doing i'm all over the place i'm rambling but uh but there's a certain i don't know what's exciting is the idea like push the envelope and don't make it boring don't don't. And what's cool, not cool, devastating because Trump's the president, but I really believe like, with the, like, tone, like the negative drip over everything now, and this, like, cynicism that

has so permeated everything, we don't even realize it's there anymore. That's why I really do think movies like Lady Bird, or call me by your name, or, um, or disaster artists are getting, are being received warmly because they're like, get their their celebrations and calling my name is still sad but it's a celebration and it's joyful and like even some of the meetings i've had recently like not not recently this is all a privilege anyway like this is all so amazing but i feel like you're going to see an aversion towards like even even when the little things i've written sometimes and i'm really no writer it's too easy to write fuck every other word right or like or like have such shock value on screen

again, I'm going to cut myself off because I could like talk about something recently I saw, but like, it's too easy that way. Well, and an aversion perhaps to artifice too, to the glossiness and fakeness. I mean, we hear, you know, obviously the word of the year is fake news, the term of the year is fake news. But the thing that you talk about, I've heard you talk about, is authenticity and the actors that you've cited and that we've talked about a bunch in this conversation are actors that value kind of just, you know, they can't stand a fake moment. And, you know, I've talked before about, like, Kristen Stewart's been, you know, someone I've known for a while and has been on this podcast a few times. And she's somebody that, like, can't stand BS at all. Like, she'll cut herself off in the middle of a take if it feels the slightest. Oh, yeah. And you can see that interacting. Right. Yeah. So, yeah, I totally agree. Anyway, so, um, on the press side of things, I'm fascinated because, like, this has also been a year where you've probably talked more in this year of your life than the 20 years prior combined. Um, has it been an adjustment. Um, has it been an adjustment. to kind of become like a somewhat of a public figure to you know you just did your first late-night talk show the other day like all this stuff is this something you were talking about like the you know valuing being entertaining and not being boring right is it something that you find like do you have an imposter syndrome where you're like talking you're like why the fuck does anybody care what I'm talking about yeah a little bit there's that feeling of like wait a second guy that I was a year ago but also the feeling of like if I'm here and I'm winging it that means everybody else is winging it So that's a really strange feeling. You know, it's, there was a weird thing with this film where I was, I had too long to think about the idea that all of a sudden there was going to be a, you know, like a press run and a public side to these things. There wasn't before.

Because you had like a six-month gap. Yeah, exactly. And then you knew there was this love for it and it was going to ramp up with the ball festivals. Well, I mean, you knew, but then you also don't know because things go south all the time. and and I just I have great like mentors and people that say you know look man expect nothing and like Army who has been on this train many a time right so yeah it's a little it's like it's a little it's a little I find it to be destabilizing not in the like cliched way where people think it's related to ego or you get like an aggrandized sense of self

but rather environments become just unfamiliar and I find I find what it is is like accepting compliments on camera, more than anything, because that's, like, dehumanizing. I think people see that. And then that's what makes people, I think more than anything, more than like cool clothes or whatever. It's like that is weird, because that doesn't happen in real life. People don't get compliments for no reason. Not to the degree that actors and filmmakers and public figures. Well, because there's the, there's the icebreaker at the beginning of the thing.

And anyway, so like I said, but I feel like it's a necessary part of the job. And I really am like a pop culture fan. I took an Andy Warhol class last year in school. And certainly would be naive to like want to be like, I desire to be a part of this machine now. Because like I said, the roadmap, like even just psychologically is not great amongst, you know, people that you even work with sometimes. And yet, like, I'm a Kid Cuddy fan, you know. I'm a Leonardo DiCaprio fan, you know. I'm a Kanye fan

I don't want to be watching interviews like why am I trying to bore boring is not the right thing again because it's less to do it's more boredom and less to do with wanting to be entertaining because that's also a big trap so I don't want to people to think that but I don't like want to play the role

of like young actor but that's what kind of exciting and whatever worse like not cool enough for school like I'm above I'm about Shakespeare right right You know, did, and I, far beat for me to pry into someone, someone's private life, but, you know, you were in a relationship with a pretty public person, but by, you know, familial relationship at least. Did that help you kind of with perspective on this whole fame and publicity thing, at least being kind of tangentially around that a few years back?

Yes and no. Yes and no. Yes, because there's the exposure to it, but then no, because. The person I was with, the whole family, it's just, it's unlike the, the public necessity of being an entertainer and a musician is way different than what any actor goes through. In fact, if you follow the Phillips Seymour Hoffman, Daniel Day Lewis, Christian Bale, School of Acting, you're really supposed to stay mysterious, which I'm totally crucifying right now. I asked him, nothing else. So, Beautiful Boys, the next one we're going to see you, and presumably. Is that going to do the festival circuit, do we know? I don't know. I think that's, I don't know.

I mean, it's totally the feeling I had with calling by her name where I got back from Italy and I met with my agents in New York and there was a project we were discussing that maybe I could have done. And they were saying, what do you think? And I said, you know, I don't know why, but I really think this thing we did in Italy. This is not the feeling before or during. There was no shot called then. there was like the opportunity You're like guys

I think we're telling it We're killing it We're killing it Now before it was the Luca James Ivory Andre Ausman Three months in Italy And then after it was like

And similarly I don't know It'll be different Because just by way The subject matter It's heavy heavy stuff In such a way That calling my name isn't

So Like It's not an upper of a film But But It sounds like you're It has There's a good

feeling surrounding at least the experience of making it it was fucking nuts and was surreal and like and your mind knows you're acting but when you drop 20 pounds and you're under a rain machine for eight takes and a t-shirt your body doesn't know you're acting exactly and there was a lot

of doctor visits on that movie and a lot of close calls so crazy um yeah I can't fucking wait to see it and lastly before I let you go one of the fun things about this this strange season is like I noticed like you've done at least one of these like kind of actors roundtable things yeah that's crazy so yeah what is that like to kind of like you're surrounded by the Hugh Jackmans

I don't even know who else was on like the roundtable you just did it's it's very surreal and like and like I don't know it's I try to find a roadmap for these things I do not want to be 26 or 31 looking at my peak you know and then those roundtable you know when the conversation comes my way which is rare thank you fully rare because I don't what the what do I have to offer amongst like legends like that. Denzel was not there by the way if Denzel was there I don't know if I would have been able to sit there because he's one of the guys I've looked up to the most so yeah what do you have to say those things nothing I mean you you and like I really because the conversation at the roundtable I did was like kind of moderator said so what were you guys doing at that age and they all have the or I was working hard or Franco says the McDonald's accent story that I've read in his books or or Gary Olman said I was in theater school or in Hugh Jackman's said that too. So the unsaid thing in the air is like, all right, kid, let's see what you have. But then with the winning mixture of sincerity and humor, I'm stealing that from, yeah, I'm stealing that from Kumal who said that at the Hollywood Film Awards. He got up there and he gave a speech

that was so funny. And then he said, winning mixture of sincerity and humor, which is hilarious. Well, he's coming in a couple days too. Yeah, you're part of the... That guy is so funny. And, like, we did another panel with him that was in the Hamptons. It was a variety does this thing called 10 people to watch.

And then, so all the actors are outside this hotel, and I was trying to be deferential and polite, particularly as one of the young people there. And so they were sending people in the cars ahead of us. And then I got in the car, and then you couldn't make this up. Like, a dog parade of all dog parades

crosses, and then, like, you know, so then all of a sudden I've been made late to this thing. So I get there, I'm all frazzled. I'm manic, say sorry, you know, I'm so sorry, like, there was a dog parade, you wouldn't believe it, and they wouldn't let me get in. And then he said, and then Kumal said, he uses that excuse every time. And the rest of the panel, like I'd bring up, I try to, like, have serious answers him like, the dog parade guy, and he killed me, you know, in a great way. It was very funny. It was very funny. And afterwards, I said, you know, it was an honor as a fan of Silicon Valley to be

roasted up there. And then we're at the Hollywood Film Awards, and he got up there to accept an award for the big sick, and I kind of, like, sat back in my seat. And I don't, I don't, I don't don't feel like anybody else did it, but I was like, okay, this is going to go down. I feel it. And sure enough, Ray Romano gets up there too. And Kamal goes on this whole bit where he's like, you know, Ray, I saw you weren't sitting at the big sick table. Saw you sitting with Kate Winslet. You know, how is it over there? And then Ray Romano, of all people, gets like flush in the face. And I thought this guy, I think he's going to, I mean, again, who might say this? This has been the theme of this interview, but I think he's going to like skyrocket. I think

there's going to be a lot more with him. Oh, he's amazing, man. I'm sure you're getting this advice a lot. My one bit of advice that's not brilliant is just, you know, enjoy this time, man. This is, as you well know, this is kind of a unique experience with this film in particular for you, call me by your name, and to get a chance to kind of like, you know, touch audiences and to

mix it up with like the best filmmakers and actors on these silly kind of award shows and and mixers. I mean, it has a silly side, but it's all, it's, you know. No, it's totally surreal. It's great, man. And it's well deserved. It really is. Thank you. And I really am trying to appreciate it. I'm sure we're going to be talking a lot more in the years

to come. Congrats again, buddy. And as I said, I'm sure I'll see you a bunch to the next couple months on the, on the circuit. Hopefully. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressure to do this by Josh. American history is full of infamous tales that continue to captivate audiences, decades or even hundreds of years after they happened. On the infamous America podcast, you'll hear the true stories of the Salem Witch Trials and the escape attempts from Alcatraz, of bank robbers like John Dillinger and Pretty Boy Floyd, of killers like Lizzie Borden and Charles Starkweather,

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