Happy Sad Confused - Tom Holland (plus Kevin Feige & Amy Pascal)

Episode Date: July 30, 2026

It's been nearly a decade for Tom Holland as Spider-Man and its time for a look back on Happy Sad Confused. From his auditions to his Infinity War death to his plan for the future, Josh and Tom talk about it all. Plus a chat with SPIDER-MAN: BRAND NEW executive producers Kevin Feige and Amy Pascal. SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Do you ever think of like the multiverse reality where you didn't get Spider-Man and Timothy Chalmay is flinging around Spider-Man? I think he would make a great Spider-Man. I think he would really bring a lot of emotion. I think he would be a more brooding version of the character, which might be kind of interesting. Sure. And you know, maybe I got Dune. And Dune would be this kind of like blumbering idiot, like running through the sand.

That would be kind of fun, though. I don't think that would be your take. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today, it is a Spider-Man brand-new day spectacular. Tom Holland is on the podcast.

Plus, stick around later. We have a special chat with Kevin Feigey and Amy Pascal. Hey, guys, thanks as always for checking out the podcast. Remember to hit that subscribe button if you haven't already on YouTube on Spotify. whatever platform you're using. I appreciate you guys. A big one today for the biggest movie. I think it could be the biggest movie the year.

I mean, with apologies to Avengers Doomsday and Dune Part 3, I don't know, Spider-Man brand new day is going to give them a run for their money because the love of this franchise, the love of Tom Holland in this role is palpable. It is strong. And this movie delivers. I am so thrilled to say that Tom Holland is on the podcast for the very first time. Later on, as I said, we do have a little mini kind of bonus conversation with executive producers Kevin Feigy and Amy Pascal. So let me explain a little bit first about both

of these conversations, a little context. But before I do that, let me remind you guys, check out our Patreon, patreon. patreon.com slash happy, say I can infused, you get early access, you get access to our live events, bonus content, merch, all sorts of fun stuff. Check it out. Patreon.com slash happy, say, confused. If you like what I do, support us over there. Okay. So context. Tom Holland. This conversation was recorded before I saw the movie. This was, in fact, recorded quite a while ago, a month or two ago, at least. He was in New York, schedules lined up, and who's I to say no to Tom Holland? Of course, I've wanted Tom on the podcast forever. I've been talking to him a long time for MTV and for other things. But finally, to have the deep dive with him was fantastic. And in a way, it's okay for my purposes that I, I hadn't seen the movie because it gave us an opportunity to dive into his, particularly his Spider-Man history. So we talk about the early days of joining Spider-Man, the early pressures, his growing contributions through the years. That moment in time when Spider-Man was seen to be leaving the MCU, the rumors about Spider-Man joining the other Sony films, his role in Infinity War, his death scene.

So many things we got to touch on that I probably wouldn't have had time or if I was just concentrating. on the new film. So yes, there are teases on the new film, but this is mostly kind of a look back at his Spider-Man life. There's a little bit of Odyssey in there, too. And again, just for context, this was before the Odyssey was out, before I'd seen the Odyssey, before anybody had seen the Odyssey. So that's why we're talking about it as if it hasn't happened yet, because it hasn't happened yet. Okay? So there's the context for Tom. Context for Kevin Feige and Amy Pascal. This is a, just a mini kind of bonus thing that we're going to put at the very end of the episode, 10-minute interview. Mostly about Spider-Man, a brand new day.

Again, I hadn't seen the film yet, so it's, you know, given that context, that's what the conversation is. Also, there is some conversation about things like Ghost Rider and X-Men. This, of course, happened before Comic-Con. As you guys probably know by now, Ghost Rider was officially announced with Ryan Gosling. I'm very much connected to that story. If you don't know, if you know, you know. So there's that. And, yeah, so I have the newsy stuff.

with Kevin might feel, I don't think it feels old because we talk about Blade, which wasn't even brought up at Comic-Con and some other things. So anyway, just wanted to give you the context for that. That's why we're talking about Ryan Gosling as a potential ghost rider and not, in fact, of course, the fact that he is now a ghost rider. So I think that's all. We'll get to the main event because there's a lot of juicy stuff in this one. Stick around until the end. Kevin Feigey, Amy Pascal, producers of Spider-Man brand new day. But first up, a deep dive with Spider-Man himself, a long time coming. I'm so thrilled it happened.

Here is me and Tom Holland. Enjoy. Mr. Tom Holland. Nice to see you, Josh. How are you? It's good to see you, man. I'm doing well. I'm doing very well.

Welcome to Happy Say I Confuse. We've talked many times over the years. You've never done the official pod. So this is a big moment for me. I will say I have a really poignant memory of you. Oh no. When we met in Vegas. Yes.

And we did an interview. It was the first time. I was very nervous. And you really set the tone. and I think really helped me kind of start my public journey with the Spider-Man world in a really lovely way. Tom. So I'm always excited to chat.

I'm going to cry right at the beginning. I'm going to make you cry by the end of this, Dan. That's what I do for a living, right? So it ain't that difficult. Congratulations in advance on the new film. I was just telling you, I haven't had the privilege. We're taking this a little bit in advance. Needless to say, you guys are keeping this under wraps.

Yes. I'm just going to assume this is the greatest movie ever made. Yes? You said it, not me. And put it on the poster, Josh Harrowy. Yeah, exactly. Five stars. Hasn't seen it yet.

But it is a look. It's a big summer for you. The Odyssey, Spider-Man, brand-new day. I mean, is it even a summer movie if you or Zendaya are not in it? Does it really count? Listen, man, I am still coming to terms with how exciting the summer is. I think being in The Odyssey as a young, like lover of cinema is one of, if not the equalest experience I've ever had. Seeing Chris work, seeing his crew work, getting to share

the screen with Matt and Anne and John again and, you know, the rest of the amazing cast was a dream come true. Yeah. Like it was out of this world. And the movie absolutely sings, dude. Like the movie is unlike anything I have ever seen before. You're saying Christopher no one made a really good movie? He made a pretty good movie, bro. He made a pretty good movie. Finally. We were rooting for her. It's a bad time. It's a bad time. It's a about time. No, the movie is, the movie is awesome. The movie is absolutely like... I don't need to be hyped more. I'm ready. Yeah, it's so good, man. You're going to love it. You're going to love it. Okay. So since, since we have the luxury of a little time here,

and we have been talking for a number of years, I want to kind of like take a macro view of like the, particularly the Spider-Man run because, I mean, you alluded to it. Like, I met you, I think you were probably maybe 20, 21 back in Vegas. Probably a cinema con. Yeah. Right. And I mean, I was guilty of this. I'm sure everybody was guilty of this. Like, it's always about, like, Are you feeling the pressure? The responsibility, right? When you get a role like that. I'm curious what those words mean to you now at 30

versus what they meant to you at 20. Pressure, responsibility to this character. It's a really interesting question because I was talking about it this morning. I feel more pressure and more nerves releasing Spider-Man brand-new day than I did Spider-Man Homecoming. And I think there's something about that kind of childlike naivety of what was happening to my life at 20, as opposed to finishing that third movie, sharing the screen with Toby and Andrew,

being really kind of conflicted as to whether or not my time as Spider-Man had come to an end, taking a leap of faith and diving into this new movie, falling in love with Destin, making a movie that I am so unbelievably proud of. And I think because I'm so proud of it and Destin was so gracious and allowed me to be a part of the development process and, you know, I've been involved in this movie in a way that I haven't been before. I think a lot of those nerves are down to the fact that this movie feels like it's a bigger part of me somehow, I guess.

You pushed your cards on the table and has more of a voice at the table. Yeah. And I want to get to that because that evolved over the fact. the years, I know for you. But it is funny because, like, you were, you're saying, like, look, you weren't, like, you were an adult, but you were a young adult when you got this. And, like, there's only so much the brain can wrap itself around when you are cast in that role. You can intellectually know, like, this is a big deal. Yeah.

Like, this is James Bond, Batman. This is one of those. But then it's another thing to actually walk in those shoes. I mean, my sense about you, and I'm going to pay you a compliment, is like, over the years, you've handled it kind of as well as you can for something like this. something that no human being really has the capacity to handle. Right. When you look at kind of the 10-year journey, do you look at it as like kind of a straight line of kind of like learning or were there ups and downs in the road of kind of like I'm buying

into my own hype at a certain point or I'm prioritizing the wrong things or give you a little sense of like that? I think that all of those things are true. But if they weren't true, then you wouldn't be like a well-rounded person, right? You wouldn't be a human being. You have moments where like golf is this, everything goes back to golf. I know. Golf is a perfect analogy.

Right. There are days where you're like, I could be a pro golfer. Like, why don't I pursue golf? And then there are days when you're like, I don't think I'll ever play golf ever again because I suck. Right. And I think life is like that. You know, there are highs and lows. It's about appreciating them both for the different ways in which they affect your life and the ways you learn from them.

I've always been like a big, um, I've always really believed. in that you learn more from your failures than you do your successes. Right. You know, and I've loved every minute of it, to be honest. I feel still as lucky today as I was when I was 18 and I got the job. I think something that I've really loved about the process is that playing this character has never felt like a job. Yeah.

It has always felt like a gift. And I love the people that I get to make it with, the guys at Sony, the guys at Marvel, the incredible cast that I get to share the screen with. it has just been a positive experience in every way. So I'm feeling pretty blessed and feeling pretty lucky and I am super proud of the film. We'll be right back with more Happy SETG Confused. From the parents behind Law and Order

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Back to the beginning, and you've talked about kind of the famous six-month-long audition process. Right, right, right, yeah. I don't really rehash all of that. But what I'm curious about, like, when you look back at that time, that long process of getting the role, it seems like looking back and hearing you talk about it way back when there was something in you that thought you were the right guy for this, that you were kind of destined for this. Even like as long as it was going, it was going to work out. Is that safe to say? And if that's true, like, where do you think that came from? I don't know if it was a sense that I was the guy for the job,

but more the sense that if I got it, I would do a really good job. I don't know if I would maybe do the best job of everyone that was going up for it. Right. But I knew that given the opportunity, I could really do something that was well within my wheelhouse. And I'd been a fan of Spider-Man since I was a kid. I'd grown up kind of cosplaying a Spider-Man. it was such a huge part of who I was as a person. Yeah.

That it was less, it was less about a performance and more of a portrayal of myself, I guess, just with an American accent. But I've always been confident. I've always kind of been confident in my own ability. Yeah. And, you know, I had a really healthy, a really exciting experience the other day.

Like I went for my first dance class to prep for Fred Astaire. Yeah, yeah. And I was equally, as excited as I was terrified, which was the excitement came from, oh my God, I can totally do this, but then the fear was, but I have to climb a mountain to do it. But it was like that perfect level of fear and excitement kind of meeting in the middle. I know I have it within me. I can learn it, but it's going to take work. Yeah, it's like, I know I can do this, but in order to do this, I'm going to have to work harder than I've ever worked before. Right. And if I'm willing to do that,

then I'll achieve what I want to achieve. Yeah. So it's, it's not. It's not. blind faith. Right. It's with the right, I have the tools and if I really put the work in, I can do it. Exactly. That's what it is, yeah. Do you ever think of like the multiverse reality where you didn't get Spider-Man and Timothy Shalmay is swinging around Spider-Man? I think he would make a great Spider-Man. I think he would really bring a lot of emotion. I think he would be a more brooding version of the character, which might be kind of interesting. Sure. And you know, maybe I got Dune. I was going to say that would be this kind of like blumbering idiot like running through the sand

that would be kind of fun though I don't think that would be your take um there I don't think they've never released like I mean you obviously got the part before Jacob and Zendaya got you screen tested with them as far as I know right like they were reading opposite you they've never released that footage have you seen the footage of like I mean that's probably like your first meeting with both of them is on literally on a camera somewhere yeah yeah yeah we've all seen it we've all sat down and watched it and laughed about it and you know it's really funny in this movie in particular there are flashbacks to previous movies to try and help audiences understand

like where we're coming from a certain moment and I remember even shooting the third movie feeling like an adult and feeling like a kind of a young man yeah and then when you see those flashbacks in comparison to the movie that we're making now right we look like children yeah so when you go back to the audition tapes yeah I mean, I was a child. I was 17 years old when I was auditioning for these movies. Right. So it is kind of crazy to think about how much of my life has been about Spider-Man.

Yeah. No, you can mark different parts of your life. Yeah. And obviously, overlap with the personal life too now. I mean, it's just, it's everything. I mean, it's not everything, but it's a lot of your life, obviously. I mean, I would say it's damn near the majority. Yeah.

Yeah. Was the physicality part of like what you feel? felt like initially was like in your bones like I can bring something a little bit unique here like I'm good in my own body I know what I can do like Toby Andrew amazing but like I have like some I'm a little a bit different body type I can do some other things I guess just having a dance background yeah for a character where you completely cover his face and you have to kind of tell the story through physicality yeah you know I was really lucky to have the emoting eye Right.

You know, the kind of Tony Stark eyes that can kind of give the audience a sense of what's going on, but really you can just do shocked or angry. That's kind of the limitation to the emotions the eyes can do. But yeah, I think, you know, when I was auditioning for the movie and thinking about how I would play the character, a lot of it was sort of standing in front of a mirror and... Oh my God. That's the footage I want. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, pretending to sort of be in fight scenes or in scenes and I try to do this thing.

I tried to do this thing in the first movie which kind of ended up sticking, which was like, you know if you fall asleep on your arms and your arms go dead? Right. This idea that when he's in the suit, he doesn't necessarily have control of his arms in scenes. So you'll notice, like, if I ever turn around really quickly, I kind of let my arms go a little bit loose. Yeah, yeah. And I just kind of thought that was like a funny little thing, which ended up becoming a bit of a staple, I guess, for me.

but physicality has always been step one of stepping into the shoes of Spider-Man. We do, as an audience, sometimes worry about you doing the stunts, and I'm not alone. I want to show you, where's my camera? So one of my favorite interviews I did with your friends, Jacob and Zendaya, was talking... Is this one just talking about me being sick? Yeah, I love it. Let's just play it again. Just for shits and giggles.

Here we go. You know what I think about all the time? really scares me. It's like when he wears that thing, like, the mask that you can't just take off. Yeah, you can't scott with you. Because it's all like one piece. I get scared all the time.

Like, what if he's working so hard that he throws up? And then he can't, he chokes, yeah. I think about all the time, like that's really scary. You think about that all the time? I do. Because I look at it, I'm like, please, I hope he never get sick. Oh my God.

Oh, but also like, what is like doing flips and stuff? So was that a fear for you as well? Or was that just your friends? being very kind and... It was definitely something that crossed my mind. I think that in reality, I knew that if that did happen, I could pull the eyes out,

grab the eye tray, and I could just rip the mask. There's a rip cord. There's an emergency. It's not designed that way, but I'm pretty sure... Yeah. I could have done that. But now, in the new suit, having worked with Toby and Andrew...

Yes. And seeing the amount of... of engineering that went into their comfortability, I have a zip at the back of my head which allows me to take the mask off to breathe. This comes with Signior. Imagine that. You can actually breathe. How good is that? Do you have a favorite of the entire canon of Spider-Man of the costumes, like the one that you wore or they wore? Like, what's your, what's the favorite? I love Andrews Tasum II costume. A lot of our new suit is inspired by that. And, you know,

we kind of broke the rules a little bit by justifying the fact that Peter had met those two guys in Spider-Man 3, that we kind of made this new suit as an amalgamation of the things that we loved from Toby suits and Andrew suits. Nice. I love the black suit in Toby's movie. I think that's really cool. I think if we ever got to do a black suit in Spider-Man, I don't know how we would, I don't know how we would tackle that challenge because they did it so well in the game.

Right. And I don't know how you make a suit that's similar to the one in the game without having a CG component. Right. It feels like that's the place to obviously go, but you obviously want it to feel tactile. Yeah, I don't know how you would do that. I'm sure as you well know, among the thousand rumors that are always going around is like that potentially we see you in the symbiate guys for secret wars. Okay. Well, I have absolutely... You're not making eye contact.

You just went away. What happened? I swear to you, Josh, that I have no idea what Secret Wars is about. And I think that that is by design. Because Marvel know I'm going on this press store, and that is their biggest asset. And I think it's really important that no one ruins it. So I think by design, I went on holiday with Joe Russo not a month ago. And nothing.

I don't know nothing. Do you want to do the rest of the interview holding up our hands like this? Like this, no? Yeah, I truth be told, I know nothing about our movie. Do you think you've gotten a bad rap over the years? Has it been overstated, and how much have you played into kind of like that you're the leaker, the one that's, that just can't control themselves? There's part of me that loves it.

Yeah. I think my dad's a comedian. Right. So having thick skin and growing up with people taking the Mick out of you is like, part of our upbringing, right? You know, my love language, I think, is taking the piss. out of me. I really love. I just, I love it. Yeah. Um, and I think it's been, I don't know, I think it's been really fun this whole idea of me spoiling things and I have spoiled things.

Right, there's a germ of truth, more than a germ of truth to it. Yeah, it's not like it's completely out the blue, right, you know, but then again, there are times where we kind of maybe lent into it, sure, to try and, you know, create some buzz on the internet. That's not the worst thing in the world's the way of the world. I am, yeah, I am pretty loose lip, but it's only because I'm really excited. Like, I love these movies. I'm a fan first. For 10 years before I joined this amazing universe, I was first in line at the cinema.

So I feel like I'm a fan that kind of got into the trenches with them, you know? And sometimes when I do these interviews, I want to tell everyone what's going on because I'm... You're excited. I'm a fan. Let's jump to Infinity War. Mr. Stark, I don't feel so good. Was that ever...

Was that ever written on the page? Was that one of those where you were workshopping different things in the moment? I feel like I or I think maybe I gave myself a little too much credit in that moment. It definitely wasn't written as long as it was on the page. And maybe it was just my insatiable need to milk that moment. I don't know. But I think the I don't want to go was made. be something that I improvised.

Okay. Or if it wasn't that it was improvised, it was that I kept saying it over and over again. I see. But truth be told, is that an acting exercise that I have done since I was a kid to find real emotion.

Repetition. Is to repeat a phrase, whether it's, I'm so sorry, I don't want to go, or I love you, or something like that. It's just a really, really effective way of, like, bringing up emotions. Yeah.

So I think that scene is an amalgamation of like some acting exercises, Downey, improvising myself, improvising, and also just the brothers giving us the perfect flaw to dance on, you know, in those big moments. It's so funny, like, obviously, I've talked to all of you guys

from these films, and, like, I just talked to Paul Bettney recently, and he was talking about, you know, his death scene. Right, right, right. Joe was like, can you guys come up with something? Yeah. Like, now, this? But sometimes, I mean, that's also a beautiful thing. Like, yes, it's scary, but it's like,

obviously they have something on the page. They have some ideas. But it's also, in these kinds of things, kind of movies you don't think of it of being able to have that freedom, which is kind of awesome. Yeah, and I think what is so good about Joe and Ann for these humongous movies is that they know that no one loves their character like the person that plays that character. Right.

You know, and everyone has an understanding of what would do just, what would be... Right and appropriate for themselves. Right. and appropriate for that character in that moment. And I think Joe and Anthony are such great collaborators that they are not afraid to put you on the spot and say, like, what do you think Peter would do in this moment? Right.

You know, like we have our ideas, and this is what we've sat around in the writer's room, but we want to hear what you think because you've been living, breathing this character for the last decade. Tell us what you think. And I think that that is why the movies feel so personal, even when they're so big.

Right, everybody's bringing their own passion. soul and people are bringing to the characters what they love about the characters. And I think that Joe and Anthony are some of the best at that. Except for Anthony Mackey, who's just kind of phoning it in. He just shows up. It's like, what do I do? Mackey came and surprised me on the movie. We were shooting in Peter's apartment and I was doing this scene.

And all of a sudden, Character America was like in my apartment. He just like walked into the set. On the latest one? Yeah, because we were both filming at Pinewood. So Avengers was across the way in Spider-Man. I remember our new day was on the east side or the best side of the property. And yeah, I was shooting the scene and then Mackey just walks in. He just screams, cut the check.

Yeah, number one's here. But no, we had a good time. It's nice to catch up. He looks great in his costume. He looked pretty cool. Really, you're being kind to Anthony Mackey, despite all the things he said about you. I didn't mean for that to sound, like I said, it was such surprise. Yeah, finally, he's got it into shape.

He's okay. But it's about time. 2019 is kind of a down moment in the midst of a great movie. There's a small period of time where you think Spider-Man is no longer going to be part of the MCU. Yeah, that's right. About a month or so where it's like we all thought it's over. What do you put me in your head during that time period, were you kind of like ready to check out? Like this isn't what I want.

This isn't what I mean, how down were you about that prospect at the time? I think I was probably more confused than I was down. In my eyes, everything between the two studios was fantastic. First movie went really well. The borrowing of the character for Civil War seemed to be a big success. But that said, I love Tom Rothman. I love Amy Pascal. I love Rachel O'Connor.

I still had a great sense of confidence that whatever we would do with that second movie would be great. Yeah. And would be really fun. And it was made very aware to me that they weren't moving on from me. It was just that the relationship between like mum and dad had fallen apart a little bit. Kind of literally, yeah. And I think, you know, both of the studios chatted with each other and figured it out and recognized that the characters would service both studios in a really good way.

And I think that, you know, they, I don't know. I don't really know, but I just know that I always had confidence in the character and Amy and Tom and Rachel. You talk about being, you know, protective of the character, having a voice, we kind of alluded to that, how it's kind of grown throughout the years. And part of that I would imagine is also, we're talking about the Sony side of things.

Obviously they were for a while trying to do all these spin-off movies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Morbius, Craven, Venom, obviously. Yeah. Did you have to kind of like take stands about like whether you made sense or not to be involved? Because I would imagine for each of those movies, there's a point in time where they're like, we really want to use Spider-Man. And someone has to make the argument that it's not right or appropriate. Yeah.

To be perfectly honest with you, I think that, you know, Rossman is a really smart guy. And I think that he was building this universe and they had this plan to kind of merge the worlds at some point. And I think that they just never found the right time to do so. Yeah. I think it was on the cards. Sure. You know, and there were never any battles of like, we want you to be in this movie and I don't want to be in this movie.

That never happened. It was just like, we'll get there. We just never got there. Yeah, I think that was the idea. It was like one day this will happen. And like lots of things in the creative world, it just never came to fruition. Yeah.

And I think that we were feeling great confidence in my franchise with Watts and with the, the Marvel guys and the MCU, that Tom and the guys at Sony just wanted us to continue on our path. Yeah. And yeah, but there was never any times where I was being forced into

a movie I didn't want to be in. That never happened. I mean, I will say just from a fan perspective, speaking for many, it's like probably the one thing we always wanted, obviously, was you and Hardy. Yeah. And look, anything could happen. Anything could happen, you know.

Who knows what the future of my Spider-Man looks like. You broke eye contact again. You just went away. You just went over here again. Well, listen. Just wait and see, bro. Just wait and see. More happy, say, confused, coming up.

When WestJat first took flight in 1996, the vibes were a bit different. People thought denim on denim was peak fashion. Inline skates were everywhere, and two out of three women rocked, the Rachel. While those things stayed in the 90s, one thing that hasn't is that fuzzy feeling you get when WestJet welcomes you on board.

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Listen to Rebel Girls wherever you get your podcasts. And find us on YouTube.com slash Rebel Girls. And whatever you do, stay Rebel. So No Way Home is a miracle of a film. Yeah. Like that it even exists. It's awesome. I'm so proud of it.

And that it wasn't just like a novelty. It could have just been kind of like coasting on like, this is awesome. Look at that. And then, but it's emotional and somehow works. Like, what do you take most pride in about that film from an acting perspective?

From like a creative perspective, when you look at that achievement. I think sharing the screen with Toby and Andrew. Yeah. I think as a fan of both of those guys and their movies, like it's such a wild experience. to play a character while doing it with like two of your heroes from when you were a kid. Yeah. And having a shared experience, you know, playing Spider-Man is a really unique experience.

Yeah. You know, on the big screen there's only three of us that have done it. Yeah. And to share that with those guys was really awesome. I think working with a lot of the villains, the iconic villains, for me as a fan again, was just absolutely out of this world crazy. Yeah. To see Wilmdiffo across the certain Molina, yeah. Come on. I mean, come on. It was crazy. And it just was an awesome experience. We had, you know, we kept it a secret for the best, for the most part. You know, there were little things.

Talk to Andrew Garfield and his Uber Eats guy or whatever. But what's so interesting is that like that, while at the time it felt like the walls were closing in and like, oh my God, the world knows the cat's out of the bag. It's over. Yeah. It just added so much amazing speculation. Oh my God. One of my favorite interview I think I've ever done is my post-mortem with Andrew Andrew after the movie came out, where he talked about lying to me for a year.

Yeah. It's actually really tough, I think. When you are sitting on these secrets and people are asking you about them and you are actually just lying all the time, that weighs really heavy on me. And to be clear, from our perspective, at least speaking for me, I don't actually want you to spill anything. I don't want the movie ruined. Yeah, no, I get that.

I'm just enjoying the dance myself. Yeah. No, I get that. I get that. But no, that was a crazy time. Yeah. And a highlight for me, I'm so proud of John Watts and like what he did with that original franchise, you know. He really, really landed the plane there.

So, again, talking about kind of like creative input, getting to this new film. As I understand, you had some ideas. You had some things you brought to the table. Yeah. I keep reading hearing spider puberty. Yeah. Is that kind of like the leading, I don't know, sentiment. you brought to the table. What was the pitch?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wish you could hear the lead balloon that spider puberty was in the room. Do you have anything else? Yeah. For me, it was this idea of exploring how a superhero develops over time. Right. You know, as a young kid, you go through puberty and your body changes more than ever. Yep. In my franchise, we never got to explore the really exciting time. of any superhero movie where someone is figuring out how to use these new gifts. Yeah. And I always felt like I wanted to try and find a way to explore that.

So my idea is very different to what's in the movie and it evolved in the way that Peter evolved in a really big way. But I basically just put on the table like, what happens if Spider-Man starts developing all of these new powers? And he's getting stronger and he's getting faster and his senses are becoming too much. senses are becoming too powerful. And he, I didn't come up with the organic webs thing. At one point I was like, what if he had like fangs that come out his hands and he had like venom spikes at one point?

And that is not in the movie, don't worry. And then, you know, we explored the nightmare sequences of him waking up as the man spider and very quickly we were like, we do want children to enjoy this movie as well as adults. You know, it's a little bit too creepy. But yeah, I was really great. to Destin and Amy and Kevin and all of the, you know, creative team for letting me sit in that writer's room and just kind of bad ideas back and forth and try things and explore different

options and we went down so many different rabbit holes before we got to what the movie is today. And, you know, sometimes it's the worst idea. Right. That berths. You gotta go down that road and then- An absolute gold nugget of a piece of information. So yeah, it was really fun. So besides the stuff you just mentioned, I was curious,

because you've never been shy about pitching stuff. You famously pitched Tom Rothman, like the James Bond origin thing that came uncharted in a way. Like, what is the craziest thing you've ever pitched, like, years ago for Spider-Man that just, like, never went anywhere? Is there one that jumps out at you that, like, maybe this was a good idea in the bathroom, but it's not a good idea in practicality?

Oh, God. I can't think off the top of my head, but there will be some rogue ones in there. Okay. I'm sure there are some terrible ideas that I've pitched over the years. So you talked before about, like, we all didn't see Miles at some point, Miles Morales. Like in your head, will you know when it's time to kind of pass the baton?

And like, have you imagined how you want that to go down? Oh, yeah. There's a whole, there's a whole plan that we have been working on for, I would say since we finished Spider-Man No Way Home. And it's like laid out, it's going to change for sure. But I have a really clear vision to the passing on of the baton. And I think it's really exciting. I know I get really excited when we have these meetings and chat about it.

But that is the thing that I want to do most in this character. Yeah. For sure. is, obviously, we're all selfish. We want to see Toby again. We want to see Andrew again. We want to see a new Miles. Do you think there's room for concurrent, like, for, you know,

there was talk after No Way Home, a lot of different talks. Sure, sure, sure. Andrew could do it a thing in his multiverse, et cetera, like, as a fan, from a fan perspective, because you were a fan first. Do you want to see that? Of course I do. Are you kidding? I think what's been so fun over these last few years is that there's so many different

Spider-Man mediums. You know, we have Spider-N-A-Wile that came out a few weeks ago. We have my version. We have, you know, the stuff that Sony've been doing. We have the animated movies that Sony make, which are just like the best Spider-Man movies that have ever been made, those animated movies. Like, you can't.

The heart in those movies is out of this world. You should add Nick Cage to the Spidey Bros. text chain. That would be interesting. Maybe the whole screen just goes black and white when he texts. I don't know what kind of textor he is, I don't know either. I don't know him. I don't know the guy. But no, I think there's room for, of course there's room for it. And, you know, I think D.C. are going to start exploring that now.

Like, I think they're doing a new Batman. Yeah. That's running adjacent to Robert's Batman. Yeah. I think Robert is so good in that role. I love those movies. I think he's so good in that role. Yeah.

He looks, I mean, you've seen the Odyssey, so you can tell me. I mean, he's amazing in the Odyssey, dude. He, like, what I love about Rob is that he, he never goes like. like down the middle. No, he's fearless. Like, he's super fearless. And what he does in The Odyssey

is top-tier, for sure. So, okay. So heading towards the finish line. Well, you mentioned Fred Astera. I just want to bring that up because this is something you've been attached to for a long while. Yeah.

And it's interesting, I was reading up, I mean, we all know Fred Astaire a little bit, but like I was reading up and I'm curious, like, is this about, like, he famously, like, worked with his sister, and they kind of like how to, they broke up as a team.

Like, it's kind of like, it sounds like a story of reinvent He had to kind of like change his career and life. Like what's what's a what about this story has kept you attached for nearly five years, I think? And what's what's exciting? I am super excited about the challenge. Yeah. And equally daunted.

I think the thing I love the most about the script at the minute is it's the story of two siblings. Yeah. And being a sibling and a brother is like a huge part of my life. and I don't feel like I've had the opportunity to tap into that in a way. The movie is still very much something that we are figuring out. Yeah. So I don't really want to talk too much about the ins and outs of what the movie will be. But I think thematically, it's just really interesting.

Yeah. It's really, really interesting. And it was finding that balance of if you don't know who Fred Astaire is, it's still a movie for you. Sure. Because there's so much more. so much more to his life than being a movie star that's interesting. And I think that's what we've been trying to figure out. Because truth to be told, if you ask my brother, Paddy, who Fred Astaire is, he's no idea.

Right, right, right. And that to me is crazy, but I grew up a dancer and I love dancing. And I'm sure there are people my age at 30 who are like, I don't really know who he is. So yeah, we're figuring it out. It'll be great. Paul King is such a lovely guy and a super talented filmmaker. So I have a lot of confidence in that. One step closer to the Paddington universe. There you go. Exactly. Will you be singing as well? Because I mean, he's obviously known as a dancer, but he sang.

There's some singing, yeah, there's a bunch of singing. I got to play the piano a whole bunch. And yeah, it's going to be great. It's going to be a lot of fun. All right. We're going to end with this. The Happy Second Feud's profoundly random questions. You've never got to do these. Let's go. I think I know the first dancer and I want to hear about it. Dogs are cats. Dogs, all day. Big time dog guy. Oh, man. What's the name of yours again? I got Phil and Noon. Okay, there are two. Yeah, I am really. allergic to cats, so it's a little bit of an unfair advantage, but my dogs are everything.

I'll have you know, besides Happy Say I confuse my other passion right now is who's a good guest, my show where I talk to actors and their dogs. Tom. Who has had the best dog so far? I'm not going to rank the dogs, but... What are we even doing this? Well, here's what I'll say. Zoe Deutsch has a dog very much like mine.

It's a pit mix. Cool. Love that. Just like a love bug. So that one, I relate the most. Okay? Yeah, yeah. Very diplomatic. Who has the best dog?

What do you collect? Good memories. Not a physical, nothing? Not so much anymore. Okay. For a while, I was like really into collecting watches and and then I got a really meaningful watch and I just don't want to take it off.

Right. So then I was like, why would I collect watches when the watch I'm wearing is, it means more to me than buying any watch. So I guess I collect watches, but not anymore. Okay. Okay. But yeah, good times.

Love it. Favorite video game of all time? Oh, the Last of Us. It's a good one. The second one. So good. Watch the series? Have you been watching the HBO?

I have not watched the series. I'm kidding. No. I have not watched the series. Because I love the game so much. Like, I don't play video games all that much. And the... the game is just so good.

Have you played as yourself in Fortnite? There are multiple skins, I believe, of you. Do you know what, dude? I am so bad at Fortnite that I cannot play it because I just, I don't even think I've ever got a kill in Fortnite. And when you play those people that stop building stuff, I don't know what to do.

You need some cheat codes. Yeah, I don't know how to do that. Would you wrap, this is the Dakota Johnson Memorial question. She asked me this. I ask everybody. Would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one B in your butt? A mouthful of B, one B in my butt, I think, would be... Yeah, yeah.

Okay, yeah. What's the wallpaper on your phone? Zendaya. That's the correct answer. Yeah. By the way, did you enjoy the end of euphoria? I love, yeah, I mean, I'm always, like, continually blown away by how talented she is and how she holds herself.

Yeah. and how much of a part of her life, that whole experience was. And it's just an amazing achievement. And she's, you know, she's been really decorated for making those shows. But I think the relationships and the friendship she's made and the creative risks she's taken and the end result is something that she should be so proud of. And I'm so proud of her for doing it. And, yeah, I mean, what an awesome, what an awesome run.

Yeah, talk about a fearless performer. Yeah, absolutely. Last actor you were mistaken for ever happened? You're Tom Holland. I don't want to sound like a dick, though. I said it for you. Yeah. That's okay. You're not dick. You're the last thing. No, I don't know. My brother Sam has been mistaken for Timothy Shalamee before, and I was there with him. So we were standing together straight past me and straight up to my brother, like you are Timothy Shalami. and I was fucking devastated, but I was like, it was actually, yeah, it was really funny. Promise, wrapping up here.

Worst noted director has ever given you. Oh, I can't say that out loud. Don't name the name. You don't have to say who it is. No, because people will figure it out. Oh. It's really bad. I want to know that off camera.

And finally, in the spirit of happy, say I confused. An actor who makes you happy. You see them on screen, you're in a better mood. Jacob Battleon. Just love that guy. He's doing the deal. dog show next week. He is? Yes. Let's go, Jacob. Movie that makes you sad. About time. Great. In a really wonderful way though. Yeah, yeah. And a food that makes you

confused. You don't get it. Sea urchin. This has come up before. Who? Why? Why? It's a consistency, what on earth? Yeah. We have, yeah, sea urchin. There it is. There it is. Tom Holland, finally, I guess, on Happy Second Fuse. Congratulations for having me. On the best movie ever made. You said it. It's on the poster now. You heard it here first, folks.

Thanks for the time. Thanks so much, man. Always a pleasure. Thanks, man. Hey, Amy. Hey, Kevin. Hello. How's it going?

Good to see you both. Good to see you too. Okay, let's talk. Let's take a look back first of all. I'm just curious. When you look back at the course of these past four films, what feels like the biggest creative risk you guys took? over that span. Well, Kevin and I can look back on 27 years. We could go back to that far if you want.

I'm happy to. And I think, but when we think of these movies, it was really important to have to put Spider-Man into the MCU because he's a character that exists amongst other characters. And that was, on the one hand, risky. And on the other hand, a no-brainer. And I think we've you know, I think that we've managed to keep Spider-Man on his own and also within a larger world. And I think that's, I think that, that, that was, that we did that good. I think we did good. I did. I'm going to say yes.

You know, because you could have gotten all lost. Totally. But we didn't. It could have stunk. It could have stunk. It would. The history of studios, different studios intermingling and figuring out. It just doesn't happen.

No, it was us. Well, it's a testament to Amy and to her long-up Spider-Man. No, and to you, and you're a loving of Spider-Man. It was because Kevin loved Spider-Man and I love Spider-Man so much that we both wanted to do the right thing for him, and we got our companies to agree. You know, the other thing about risk, which is weird to think about now, but, excuse me, recasting him so soon after Andrew,

was a bit of a risk. That was. Bringing him in 10 years ago through Civil War was our way to try to mitigate that risk. And then also taking three movies to tell an elongated version of Spidey's origin that Sam told in the first half of a movie. I think was also a risk in bringing in non-superhero supporting characters like Net and MJ that plays such a big part, which is what we wanted in his high school. environment and then sitting in your press conference today, Josh, with the three of them, now Titans of Industry and much better spokesmen than we've ever been.

Well, it's also you've reaped the rewards of that risk that you just talked about because you have made another what could be considered a risk on this film, which is the Hollywood playbook is you go bigger, you go bigger, you keep escalating. And because those three actors are so phenomenal because of what John and you go smaller. You went smaller. Yeah. Was there an iteration of this where you said, Like, let's try to go even bigger?

No. It was always the mission statement. It's hard to get bigger than three Spider-Man. Well, Amy does that in her animated movies with a hundred spiders. That's fair. Right. That's fair. But, you know, after you do a movie with Three Spider-Man, which was a beautiful and generous reunion

and generous experience for all of them, the point was really to concentrate on Peter. And going bigger and never works. Yeah. Because you can fucking help. When you go to so-called street level, a lot of characters were talked about. Was there ever, did you ever go down the road of Daredevil, Kingpin? From what, like, Vincent has said, there are some rights issues on the Kingpin side. Right.

They're not. They're not. I mean, there are things to navigate like everything else. But we did. We talked about all those characters at all those characters at all point. We had Daredevil in our movie, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And is that, I mean, that's the thing, the Spider-Man Pantheon, is you have such an insane wealth to choose from on each one. And you know as well as I do, it's like, like, you know, from a fan perspective, it bumps me out a little bit that I've never seen Venom, Tom Hardy's Venom and Tom's and Tom's Spider-Man. And I'm sure, how close did you guys get to that actually happening along the way?

It would be great. Let's put it that way. Yeah. Do you still have hope? Always have hope. Hope. I don't have hope. What are we without hope? If we said no, we have no. No, Josh, go home and cry about it. We have hope. We have no hope. But wait, there is an animated version in the works, yes?

There is. Yes. There is. Okay, okay. When you, I kind of alluded to this, because when I talk to you, Kevin, it's always like, you were a fan first. You came at this from a fan. You still are a fan. Can you talk a little bit more about the satisfaction of seeing Spider-Man and Punisher, Spider-Man and Hulk?

It must make your geek heart very happy. Yeah, it's surreal. There's a, there's a, it's not a spoiler, this very brief moment in the movie where, where Spidey is perched on Hulk's back. And that's an image years ago, and certainly when we started and Amy made the Sam Ramey movies

that I never thought would have been possible. Hulk was at one studio, Spidey was another studio, we were our own studio. So there are moments like that. And it's, And it's, I've been lucky enough for it to happen for a quarter of a century now. Where, yes, my inner nerd is very, very excited about what I'm watching.

Tom recently did the podcast with me. And we talk about the future and like Miles Morales always comes up. And he said to me like he already has in his brain how that kind of torch is past. Are you all in alignment of kind of like if and when you get there, how it goes down? Even when we get there, we'll be aligned. I mean, he has more of a creative seat at the table, obviously. It seems like this time especially, he was there with you by us. He was.

He was. He's Spider-Man, so he knows more about Spider-Man than anybody. And, yes, of course, we love Miles. We have a movie coming out next summer. How's it looking? It looks great. Do you get a sneak peek? No.

I offer him a sneak peek. No, I don't. Your old buddy, what's going on? I would like to see it as a fan. I like to see movies in the theater. We'll go together. You guys go together. One more reminiscent thing.

You talked about Sadie today and I also think back to the great choice you obviously made on Tom years back. Was it a hard choice you put him through the ringer? I mean, as you should. You went to endless auditions, but ultimately was it easy. There were a lot of contenders, but as the choices were all down, it became very, very clear. that it was top. Yeah. I think the first time we actually saw him on camera, you know.

That's the one. He was pretty hard to beat. He just, he just has Peter Parker's soul. And his agility, like that, that's just the odd bonus that that you're also a real for granted. He's also the best stunt. Yes, he is. He's not allowed to do that much anymore, but it's. I know, he's always wanting to.

We always have to stop him. I'm going to put your buddy on the hot seat for a second. We have a long history of me trying to get dirt out of you. Can I do some rapid fire with you? Please. You're so good at this. You're going to snap all of these away. Okay.

Okay. Go. I'll watch. No. Ryan Gosling wants to be Ghost Rider. Cynthia Reevo wants to be Storm. Why is Ryan Gosling not Ghost Rider? Why is Cynthia Revo not Storm?

You never know what the future may bring. both very good actors and great characters. Next, that's the Rapify? It wasn't that rapid. No. Adam Driver. Yes. You've had conversations over a number of characters.

Many, many, many. Are we getting close to getting him on board? It's no secret we'd like to. It's a tradition to Zoom with him and then he passed. That's a long-lived tradition. Very cordial. It's a nice conversation. Could be more cordial.

Yes. Does he say, does he pass in the most? or does he wait to pass afterwards? He's usually up front about how we're feeling. How much time in therapy have you spent talking about Blade? This poor product, we just need to get this done, Kevin. How are you doing? Therapy. Should we get into a therapy session?

Yeah, lie down. I mean, we all want it. Mershiel wants it. How are you feeling at this moment? I'm feeling very excited that we got Wesley back for a time in Deadpool and Wolverine and like a gigantic. like a gigantic loser and failure that we didn't get off the ground with Maharshala. Is there a World War Secret Wars as two films?

Not this world. No. Okay. Doomsday sticking to its release date? Yes. Definitely. Okay. What does the MCU look like in a nutshell coming out of Secret Wars?

Do you consider this a reboot? No, but I look to the comics as I always do in terms of our storytelling and and And after both the Secret Wars, but particularly the Hickman Secret Wars from 10 years ago, there's a nice roadmap to where we can go. And last thing for you, how many X-Men have you cast that I just don't know about? Are people signed on right now for X-Men actors? Not necessarily. Not necessarily.

Okay. Okay. We're going to go into this more in depth. One day you're coming on Happy Second Hughes, eventually. And I'm happy to talk Star Trek with you, other things. I'd rather you talk Star Trek with Amy. I was on your part. I was a Treki before I was a Marvel fan, so we can go there.

It's good to see you both. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate you guys. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person.

I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't should do this by Josh. Hey, I'm Ashley, host of crime salad. week, my husband Ricky joins me as my partner in crime. We know the true crime space is crowded, so we skip the loud, bubbly small talk and get straight to the facts of the most gripping cases. If you want to see what we're all about, check out our recent two-parter deep dive. She saved him, can you save her? Covering the baffling Rebecca Zahow case. If you want a true crime podcast that feels authentic and respects the details, come check us out. Search Crime Salad wherever you get your podcast.