Happy Sad Confused - TOP GUN: MAVERICK with Joseph Kosinski I Watchalong

Episode Date: January 25, 2024

It's time to watch the movie that saved movies! TOP GUN: MAVERICK is always worthy of a rewatch and what better way than to watch it alongside director Joseph Kosinski! Joe spills all the behind the scenes secrets from casting to music to Tom Cruise's mysterious cake list. To listen and watch the entire Watchalong go to patreon.com/happysadconfused SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! HelloFresh -- Go to HelloFresh.com/HSCFree and use code hscfree for FREE breakfast for life! UPCOMING EVENTS February 6th -- Emily Blunt -- tickets here! Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes of, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot? What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on, none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Here, you're just shameless. You're just setting this up here, this, this moment. Oh, Mab's going down. He's dead.

Just pulling the bowstring back as far as you possibly could. Maybe too far. No, no, it worked. I mean, yeah, I've seen a lot of movies and I still thought he's going there. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. I'm Josh Horowitz, and this is a happy, sad, confused watch-along. What are we watching today, guys? We're watching the movie that saved movies, the movie filled with Tom Cruise, with Miles Teller wiggling, with Miles Teller facial hair, and yes, more Tom Cruise. We're watching Top Gun Maverick with director Joseph Kaczynski. Joe Welcome. Thank you very much. It's great to be here.

It's good to see you, man. Congratulations for the upteenth time on this amazing, remarkable film. Luckily, this is one of the most rewatchable movies of all times, so we can tolerate watching it. That's great to hear. Thank you. That's the ultimate compliment, I think. So we're going to dig in the way this is going to work, guys. If you're watching on YouTube, if you're listening to the podcast, you're going to hear all the best bits. But if you are a glutton for punishment, if you just want to sit with Joe and I for the entire duration of Top Gun Maverick, here's what you do. Go to go to patreon.com slash happy, say I confused. The whole shebang is waiting for you there.

First of all, it has to fill you with a certain delight to see this logo. Yeah, no, that was very important to me. pitched that to Jerry and he was delighted to bring it back to honor, obviously, Don Simpson's contribution to the original. So, yeah, we had to rebuild it, which was fun to do. I remember vividly seeing a press screening of this and being struck by this opening credits, which are 99% exactly what was in the original, hearing the music and just feeling the flood of emotion. Was it always intended to start exactly this way? Yeah, I think that always was the idea was to let the audience know that this is a top gun film.

And, you know, the opening of the original film is so iconic. It's what I remember, you know, vividly seeing it as a kid myself. So to bring those back, but obviously update it for the age we live in by adding and women to that opening paragraph because there are a number of female aviators in Top Gun and actually flew for the movie. So that was the only kind of tweak we made. All right. So we have to get into, like, yeah, you kind of dive us right back into Top Gun World. Yeah.

The music, the iconography. Talk to me a little bit about how you constructed that. Was that always the intent to kind of bring this music in now? Did you play with that? Yeah, I mean, it was something I think we always knew that we would open with the kind of Harold Faltermeyer theme at the beginning, and then Danger Zone came in as we were kind of putting this sequence together. Again, you know, Top Gun to me is kind of a, it was a universe. It's a world that you have to go into. This is not quite the real world. This is a, you know,

a world where, you know, the sun is always setting. Yeah, magic hour 24-7. You can ride a, you know, a ninja without a helmet with no fear of being pulled over and kind of putting you in this world again was kind of the first step. And then, you know, here, finding Maverick again, you know, where is he, what's he been up to, starting to kind of peel away the layers of that mystery with this opening, which we shot out at Inyo Kern, California, which anyone who drives up to Mammoth from L.A. will see Maverick's hangar on the right side as you head up 395. Talk to me a little bit about, I know, like, your pitch to Tom when you got on board this project, one of the key components was where we find Maverick. And the fact that he hasn't really evolved, in fact. He's kind of stuck.

Right. Did Tom respond to that? Was there an evolution or was it kind of baked in from the beginning of your participation of, like, where we would find Maverick. Well, that was the big question because in the drafts that I had read, it felt like Maverick. you know, once I, before I kind of start working on the project, it felt like Maverick essentially was exactly the same guy he was in 1986, still buzzing the tower at the air station. And it felt like we needed to find him, like you said, Maverick is Maverick, but 36 years have passed. Yeah, it becomes sadder. It's like if you're, that's cool 36 years ago when you're a young man, but when you're middle age, it's a little bit, there's a little more weight to it. Right. So what we see is Maverick's still a captain.

Most importantly, I think from kind of an emotional point of view, we see that he's alone. Right. You know, he's surrounded by the memories, the awards, the accomplishments he's done. He's given his whole life to aviation. But he is alone at the opening of this film. And, you know, this always was a journey of Maverick essentially kind of finding a family, which is a reason why we return to the hangar at the end of the film and see that it is a very different feel. when we go back, but, you know, when you talk about that first pitch, one of the things I did

talk to Tom about was, what is Maverick exactly doing now? And I was kind of obsessed with this idea of Maverick as kind of a Chuck Yeager figure. The right stuff is a very important touchstone for this film. Especially this opening sequence. Yes, and obviously it's no mistake that Ed Harris is in this film. So for me, Maverick is Yeager. Kind of pushing the envelope of what's possible was an important kind of foundation for the character at the opening and kind of reintroduce, you know, people who love Top Gun to what Maverick's up now, but also for people who hadn't seen the original film, which is about half of our audience, to kind of explain who this guy is and what makes them tick.

And structurally, correct me if I'm wrong, was there an iteration of the film that kind of flashed forward in the very beginning where we meet Maverick towards the end of the film first? Yes, there was a draft that Chris McCory, an idea Chris McCoy had, which I loved, which was that we would, after we see that opening sequence on the deck,

we cut below and we see Maverick in that tight close-up that you see in the third act saying, talk to me, goose, and we just feel the weight of some enormous decision on him. And then we flash back and start our story of how to get to that point. So it was a great idea. I loved it, but ultimately, as we were putting the film together, it felt like it was unnecessary.

Right. Should we immediately get to the most controversial take on Top Gun Maverick that I know you've heard a lot, which is Maverick dies in the Dark Star sequence? and the rest is a dream. Did that catch you off guard? I assume that was not a real thing ever. No, that wasn't, I mean, you know, maybe, you know, actually we, the original version of the script,

we actually followed Maverick and his free fall back to Earth, which would have, you know, I guess, debunked that theory, which would have been, it was a pretty spectacular sequence, imagining what it's like to reenter from space in your space suit. So when you heard that conjecture, that theory, does it amuse you? It's kind of a badge of honor. I love it. I love it. Film is meant to be interpreted.

It's, you know, hopefully it's a piece of art meant to be interpreted. And I love people reading those things into it. You know, it's like the Big Lebowski theory that Donnie's not really there. Exactly. So, no, I welcome that. So this was, again, one of the key components of the early pitch to Thomas. I understand it. In 2017, as the story goes, correct me if I'm wrong,

you and Jerry Bruckheimer, visit Tom, you have about 20 minutes on the clock to give your take on what you think a Top Gun sequel should be. And Darkstar was part of it. Dark Star was one of those things. Obviously, the most important thing was the kind of emotional core of the film, which is the relationship between Maverick and Rooster, which is, I think, the thing that really hooked him.

but this notion of what is Maverick doing at this point, I think was another important piece of the puzzle. You know, the notion of shooting as much of this practical as possible was also something he, you know, I pitched to him, and then obviously the title was in the other one. You know, I said, we can't call this Top Gun 2, which is what it was called at the time. I said, this is Top Gun Maverick.

Well, because, you know, I'd follow this for years, and I'd even ask Tom about this at various events about the Top Gun sequel, because it was always being talked about. And there was even talk when Tony Scott was still with us, there was actually talk that he had signed on, that like it was a go project or close to a go project. So presumably there was a script.

Yes. Did you read that script? And did, because there was also talk that like Maverick wasn't even the lead character in an earlier version of the Top Guns sequel. There was a script by Peter Craig that I believe he did with Tony that I did not read because that was maybe seven years, before I started working on it. There was a draft by just, two drafts by Justin Marks

were the two drafts I read. And there were a couple elements from those drafts that I, I, we kept in this version, which were the character of Penny Benjamin was something he had in there, which I thought was fantastic. And the notion of stealing in F-14, which I said, you know, I knew that was, that had to be in the film.

Right. So, but otherwise, yeah, we kind of, we, you know, Eric Singer, Aaron Krueger and Chris McCory, you know, wrote this draft. We worked on it for, you know, 18 months. I mean, I don't know about you, but I've been on many flights the last year and there is about 30% of the cabin that is always watching Top Gun Maverick. You must have experienced this. It is, yeah, it is surreal to, you know, be walking. down the aisle and see the smattering of different scenes. And, you know, like, even occasionally, a couple weird things have happened where I've

gotten, like, a note from the pilot while flying, you know, saying, I'm not going to do anything crazy like Maverick, you know, and you're like, it's kind of an odd note to get from the pilot on a... It's a concerning, yeah, but... I will say, I was going to bring this up as a sore point, I do feel like, and this is going to come up later, as a line that recurs, don't think just... us do is the last thing I ever want to hear a pilot say as a mantra. If I'm on a commercial airline and that's their, that's their code. I'm getting off that plane. Exactly. That's why when

I got the note, it was a little unsettling that he was even considering trying to pull any sort of maverick move in a triple seven. You've established almost like a little company of actors that have recurred in different of your films. Like it's a testament to you. They obviously love working with you. I was half surprised, honestly, that like Brolin didn't show up in this. Was he ever on your mind? Absolutely. Brolin was on my mind. For me, you know, you always have to, you can't put all your eggs in one basket. So for me, it was Brolin and Ham were the top two. He would have done this role, presumably. He would have been. Yeah, and Joshua had done this role. We did actually talk about it but it's just he was having a baby literally the moment we were starting to we're

going to start photography so I knew it just wasn't a possibility but yeah brolin ham both guys I'd be thrilled to work with again like I since we're going to see the the ensemble here let's start by talking about miles so this film was so hinges on that relationship it sounds like when you went back to the the original Top Gun, you realized, no surprise, it was really about that relationship between Tom and Anthony Edwards and Goose and Maverick. What were you looking for in Rooster? He had to have a very specific blend of qualities. You know, if you look at Carol and Goose in the original film, you know, just incredible personalities. I mean, both went on to become, huge stars for, you know, obvious reasons, the charisma on both sides.

So it's like, well, what does the child of those two people, what does he have? And, you know, obviously I had just finished a film with Miles and just had an incredible experience working with him in that he's, I think, one of the few actors of his generation, that can bring the fun, the wit, the charm, but also has the dramatic chops to pull off the real kind of deep-seated damage that's been done to him, you know, losing a father and obviously the events that precede this film

that we learn about and can go toe-to-toe with, you know, one of the biggest movie stars on Earth. And I thought Miles, might be the right guy right from the start. In that very first meeting, I actually showed a picture of Miles to Tom because he had blonde hair and only the brave. Even in that pitch meeting? Yeah.

Oh, wow. I actually had a photo of him. So you had a mind. It was a Hail Mary. Yeah, I said, I think this. And Tom instantly, I mean, he already had so much respect for Miles, you know, because of the choices he had made in building his career to that point. And once I got them in the same room together, it was like instant.

it was just like it was one of those things where it's like the chemistry was instant between them and the respect was mutual and I could just see that you know the two of them were going to be fantastic together and and they were yeah Miles is I mean like I've known him forever and he's he has that mix of kind of like look he's deferential to Tom no doubt but he has bravado yes like he is he's he's he's that alpha male no and you need to have that in this film you've got to stand up and and And I could see that and knew that of Miles. So, you know, on the other hand, I knew it was going to be really challenging for Miles along with all the other actors because it's one thing to act in a movie like this. You know, obviously, they had to go way beyond in terms of getting in the jets

and doing this stuff that Tom looks forward to doing, you know. Yeah, but it's not every actor. Not every actor can do that. The challenge of casting this is not just getting the best actor, but knowing that these are the kind of actors that are going to be willing to put in that level of commitment. Yeah, and I tried to be up front as much as I could with them, you know, and a couple actors respectfully declined, you know, saying one,

I remember one actor said that, you know, they had issues flying commercial. And I was like, well, this is not the movie for you. This is not going to be the experience you'll be doing. So, but, you know, you look at who he did get and all of them just crushed it, as Tom would say, in the jets. just beyond all of our expectation so before we get to the rest of them um look uh glen of course we'll get to in a second he was in the running for rooster uh it's well known that nick holt was in the running and tom obviously loved him because he cast him didn't end up happening but he was going to be

a mission impossible um was his take interesting too i mean he was obviously nearly got it so you must have been intrigued by nick holt yeah no all three of them are incredible actors and all did an amazing job I had to do the due diligence of testing all three, but as I've already said, Miles, I guess, was the first initial instinct. And, you know, luckily, we convinced Glenn to play Hangman, and it's the perfect role for him. Again, he took what was there on the page and elevated it. And that role expanded a bit, too, as I understand it. Because this is a fascinating story, and that Glenn turned it down.

Yes. Glenn really had his heart and soul into Rooster. He's been on the precipice for a while and felt like this was going to be it. Doesn't get it. That's a hard moment. I mean, a huge Top Gun fan, huge Patriot. One of the hardest things I've ever had to do in my career is call Glenn and tell him he did not get the role of Rooster. And since then he showed me a picture of him receiving that phone call.

And I think he's wearing an American flag t-shirt as he's talking to me on the phone. So devastating for him, you know, the worst, one of the worst parts of my job is having to choose between three actors of that caliber. Yeah. But luckily, as you said, we were able to convince Glenn, and really it was Tom who did it. And, you know, I'm sure you've heard the story, which I was witness to, which was amazing. to convince Glenn to join to pick the film not the character right and then make the character great and that's exactly what Glenn did and yeah so everything worked out is it Jim well and you look at I've always remarked in talking about Tom especially I think of like the first 10 15 years of his

career of the way he approached the choices he made picking projects and filmmakers yep and just like you look at the 80s and 90s greatest filmmakers He hit him all. He hit as many as he could. He's, yeah, I mean, it's amazing when you look at the list of filmmakers. And that was what the advice he gave Glenn that I really, that really blew his mind, which is choose the films, not the characters, make the characters great once you're in the film. And obviously now looking back at Tom's career, you're like, oh, yeah, I can see that now.

But man, to have that insight at a young age, you know, for Tom to be able to see that, It's just, it's pretty mind-blowing, but no surprise why he has gotten to the level he's at. So how was Hangman different in earlier iterations before you guys kind of like fleshed it out a little bit? You know, just a little more one-dimensional, more of a bad guy, maybe too close closer to Iceman. And it just needed dimension. And, you know, once Glenn was cast and agreed to take this journey, then Chris, was able to tailor the script to Glenn a bit. And again, putting this group of actors together,

there was this chemistry that you just can't manufacture between all of them and watching them train, flight train together, watch them go through swim training together, and to see the bond that was formed and to see the energy and how they played off each other in real life, it all fed into their on-screen personas and, you know, created that magic that you, you know, you hope that you can capture when making a film like this. Hey, Michael.

Hey, Tom. Well, big news to share it, right? Yes, huge, monumental, earth-shaking. Heartbeat sound effect, big. Mink is back. That's right. After a brief snack nap. We're coming back.

We're picking snacks. We're eating snacks. We're raiding snacks. Like the snackologist we were born to be. Mates is back. Mike and Tom, eat snacks. Wherever you get your podcast. Unless you get them from a snack machine, in which case, call us.

Are you looking for a movie review show where the critic is at the top of his or her game, meticulously breaking down and experiencing. explaining exactly why a film does or does not work? Well, good luck with the search. Because we're having fun here on Adam Does Movies. Each and every week, I hit the big blockbusters, I cover the streamers, and I even toss in some movie news for fun. Check out the show on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, on YouTube.

And hopefully, we can do movies together. Hot. to not bring Meg's character back is that I mean that's that's a narrative choice I mean if she exists in this universe still that adds a whole other set of questions yeah no we we you know as much as I would have loved to have worked with her narratively there's a reason why Carol can't be in this world both for rooster and for Maverick as we learn later in that one of her wishes to him was to make sure rooster doesn't fly again and if she were still around I think it would it would complicate that so yeah that was one of those there's one

those hard choices you have to make sure when telling a story like this a continuation set the record straight for me did paramount ever have a conversation with you about streaming never with me no um what happened behind closed doors at the upper levels of the studio. You know, maybe it came up, but, you know, our intent was always for this to be, you know, it was shot for the big screen. It was meant to be a theatrical experience.

And Tom, I know, was not gonna let this movie be released any other way. And as hard as it was to hold it for two years, obviously. I'm glad we did. We, we, I think, released at the perfect time and, and the audience showed up and, you know, did everything. One point five billion worth of showing up. I mean, this was a phenomenon and must have exceeded even your wildest expectations. Oh, absolutely. All of ours. Yeah, all of ours. Because like,

did you have, I mean, I would assume yourself aware enough to know that the movie's working and that it works on the level and you're satisfied with it. But were you, did you, did you have anxiety prior to released? You always do. Yeah, you, you always, um, you always, um, Even if you think it's working, how it's received, what the audience sees, how the critics react to it, is always, it's not really related to how you feel about the film. It just isn't. It's its own thing. The movie tested fine. It wasn't like it was off the charts. And it wasn't until CinemaCon, which maybe you were there. I actually wasn't at CinemaCon. I saw you guys at San Diego, of course. cinema con was the first time

I watched the final film with a full house and it happened to be at cinema con with a bunch of critics and journalists and you know pretty tough crowd usually and after that screening the response from that screening was the first time I kind of exhaled a little bit and said

all right maybe maybe this works you know and and then it was just kind of a you know, a ride from there. How many, how many coconut cakes do you get per holiday season, the famous cruise cake? You know, there's a, there's another level of cruise cake, which I don't know if it's out there, but, um, if you, exactly the platinum level of cruise cake.

If you have kids, uh, I have three kids, um, you get the cruise gingerbread house, which is spectacular, um, you know, with the kids' names and the figures and stuff. It's, so that's next level cruise cake. I like to imagine he constructs it himself. He's working on it. I've gotten cakes from him that almost seemed that way. On my birthday this year, I got a F-18 as a cake with me flying it, literally my face photo reel on a cake.

I don't know how or where he got it made. It was spectacular. So, yeah, there's multiple levels to the cruise cake experience. I'm just trying to get to the base level, Joe. I'm going to be honest, really, the ulterior motive of this in every interview I ever do with anybody around Tom and Top Gun and Mission is to get on the damn cake list. So whatever you can do. I don't know, I don't think there's any secret. I don't think there's a formula.

I think at some point it'll just show up. And that's what makes it all the more special. Yeah, I got it. Let's talk more important things. How the hell you shot this movie? Well, the goal is to shoot it for real. So when I did that first meeting with Tom, I showed him some footage, what are called, funny enough, cruise videos, which are the Navy pilots put together these kind of greatest hits of the year of their training that they shoot with their own Gopros. And the footage that they were getting with these GoPro cameras stuck on the inside of their cockpits was better than any aerial footage I had seen done with much more expensive.

equipment. So I showed that to Tom and I said, I think, well, I know we can get you in a plane, but I think we can possibly get some of the other actors in the plane as well and capture a lot of this film for real. And you're speaking his language there. For him, it's like there's no other way, Joe. That's what we're going to do. And then it was a matter of convincing the Navy that we could do this to create a camera system that would pull this off. You know, when we first approach the Navy, they said there's no way you're going to be able to get a film camera. I mean, by film, I mean a motion picture camera into one of our jets. By the time we were done, we had six in there.

And IMAX? IMAX quality cameras, Sony, Venice cameras, 6K cameras, using the Rialto system, which splits the sensor from the recorder so that creates a much smaller form factor. If you go online, you can see the layout of the six cameras. the actors in the backseat, the top gun pilots in the front dress the same as the actor. So when you're looking at the actor, you see them, you know, it appears to be flying the jet. When you look over the pilot's shoulder, you see what you think is the actor flying the jet. And when you cut that together, it gives you the experience.

But it's all captured for real with top gun pilots flying real maneuvers. And I, you know, I just got to say we couldn't have done this without the Navy. the top gun pilots, their professionalism, their skill is what makes the action sequence is great. So just an incredible experience. And again, hats off to the actors for putting in the training to keep up with Tom and pull this off. Were you keeping notes officially on who was puking the most in the planes? I think they were unofficially. Among them, it was a badge of honor. Badge of honor, certainly. Glenn was very proud of his performance in the jet.

Or whack thereof. Yeah. But, yeah, I can't imagine. I just can't imagine. I don't think anyone can imagine what they were going through in those jets and being able to do the movie. Yeah. Even more intense and dangerous than the plane stuff. This is the hardest scene to shoot on the movie.

I got to be honest with you. This is the San Francisco Bay, you know, 20 to 30 not wins. That's a carbon fiber race boat that Jennifer is piloting there. I mean, how are they a lot? That's not right. Joe, what are you doing to Tom Cruise? You're going to kill him. I loved the idea that Penny Benjamin is someone who can do something that keeps

Maverick off balance, figuratively and literally right there. I mean, that's him almost falling off the boat. Yeah. But it was important for her character to have something, you know, where she can one up Maverick and Jennifer trained hard to pull this scene off

and again I shot the scene three times I shot it once off the coast of San Pedro once off the coast of San Diego and then finally here in San Francisco in order to get the speed

that we needed to get the wind are there like 10 other people on that boat that are hiding there are there must be yes yes there are there's an America's Cup team basically

inside the boat making sure that everything was going okay that makes me well but tom did rip the spinnaker off the boat uh that afternoon when he plowed through a wave which was pretty spectacular history has been very very kind to tron legacy i mean it made a lot like people may or may not remember it made basically 400 million dollars and like it's still probably with my mind that you guys didn't get the sequel obviously they're doing their own thing now but talk to me i mean it is it is a pervasive film in pop culture it still is like it exists

You must feel that, and that must be, again, you're experiencing it a different way with Maverick. But can you talk to me a little bit about the satisfaction that 10 plus years on you feel for legacy still existing? No, of course, no. I mean, listen, that would have, we all could have only dreamed that it would become that kind of, I don't want to say cultish, because I don't know if it's that far, but that's kind of what the first film was. And Tron was never meant, it's not really a mainstream property. I was explaining it's the art student with the black fingernails in the back row. right he's you know it's it's a it's it's your alternative uh blockbuster um and uh very proud of that film can't like you said can't believe we pulled it off we were all so many you were on

the deep end you yeah i mean my first film daft punk's first score uh you know just a you know garret olivia just all fresh new people making this insane film with uh disney's backing um i just did a remaster a couple months ago. So again, to watch it again, now to see it, you know, ultra-h-D, Atmos,

I, it's great, I can't wait for that. I can't wait for that. I can't wait for that. Do you have any connection to you know even what they're doing,

this, this Jared Blito project? I do have a little bit, I met with the director of the new film and know a little bit about the approach because it is related, I think,

partly to a version that we called Tron Ascension, but through a different point of view. So I'm really excited to see what they do with it and thrilled that, you know, Tron's still alive. So let's start to talk about Val in the return of Iceman because the other shirt I almost wore today was my real genius shirt because I was an obsessive Val

camera fan still am. The evolution of this, look, obviously Vowl's in a different place in his life and is not able to act in the way that he, I'm sure, would have liked to, but so beautiful the way he were able to integrate him into the film. And as I understand it, he was part and parcel of that. Yeah, we met with him early on. You know, it was, we were all adamant to try to find a way to integrate Iceman and Val into the story. So we met with Val early, and it was Val who came up with the idea of Iceman's, uh,

story in this film and it was a very it was a very generous thing for Val to allow us to do and to do in this film and working with him was everything you know I dreamed it would be he's funny so smart so good with story obviously an incredible actor as you see what he does in this scene yeah how different a day or a couple days is it on set. It must have felt like a different energy. Yeah, definitely. I mean, this is a, this is a very intense scene. It was a very emotional day, um, not only on screen, but off screen, I think, for, for both

of them to be revisiting these characters 36 years later. Um, and, uh, yeah, this is one of those shooting this scene is something I'll never forget. It was just watching two guys at the top of their game, you know, work together. And again, I didn't have to work hard. I created the environment and we had, we dialed the script in and let these guys go. You know, as many callbacks as there are, you avoided some. There's no like, I feel the need, the need for speed. Is there an iteration of the script? Did that ever come up? No, we tried it. We tried everything. Did you shoot it. We shot it. I still feel that need. I still feel that need for speed.

I think we shot it in Darkstar. I think there was a version where he said that. Yeah, you've got to try. Art is about trying, failing, trying again, failing again. And you have to give yourself permission to try things, even if you don't think it's going to work. And sometimes it does. but ultimately, you know, the edit room is where you really craft the film that you're making and, you know, the film, you find it and the film starts to speak to you and you find your way through it. Okay, most important scene, obviously. Dogfight football. Do you go through different sports? Do you... No, I think it... Because this is not a real sport. This is not a real sport. We created, Aaron Kruger created this sport on the page and, uh, We definitely had some head scratching about what exactly are the rules of dogfight football. Has anyone tried to try this out in reality yet?

I don't know. But the point is offense, defense at the same time, chaos, which essentially is, you know, ultimately what they find themselves in the third act, but more importantly, it's about building a team. And that's what Maverick's goal is here. And, you know, it was a great couple of afternoons at Coronado on the actual beach that the Navy owns. Did you know when the wiggle happened, the Miles Teller Wiggle, that you had something special? The Wiggle was a total surprise. I don't know if Miles had been working on that for months, but thank God.

I like to capture it. That's the most important thing. I got it, you know. But, yeah, no. for the actors yeah I'm sure one of the best memories but also get in the shape they need to get into

for this film a lot of pressure on them and they shot it twice didn't think it didn't like you we shot it I mean we shot yeah I mean it was all shot during magic hour which is when the sun is just above so I had probably an hour

and an hour and 15 minutes on one afternoon then two weeks later another hour and then the shot of rooster the close-up of him lifting maverick up that was something we grabbed even later than that just a little piece you obviously look at all your films there's a high degree of difficulty that clearly you get off on in some way that you enjoy pushing for narrative purposes always but like you know just pushing like you know i think of a lot of great filmmakers that are you know zemakis in his own way it was always like that right um and you're in the middle right now as we speak today

of shooting another boundary-pushing movie. So this is F-1? Is it an F-1 film? Yeah, it's an F-1 film for Apple, starring Brad Pitt, Damson Idris, Javier Bardem, Carrie Condon, incredible cast. Yeah, definitely taking everything I learned on Top Gun

and now applying it to the World of Formula One, which has been an enormous, enormous challenge. But again, I can't wait for people. people to see what we've been able to capture, you know, shooting at the Grand Prix, developing a whole new camera system, the next generation of what we did here. And, you know, having actors driving real cars on the track. I was going to say, is Bradd's driving, Brad's driving.

Brad's driving, Branson's driving, months of training, driving real race cars at speed on tracks during Grand Prix weekends. It's, it's been, it's been pretty amazing. Does this scratch the, the racing itch, or is there Days of Thunder, Cole, trickle, legacy sequel in you? Did you even ever flippantly discuss it with Tom and Jerry? I didn't, but, you know, that would be an amazing crossover now, thinking about it with Brad, Brad's character, Sonny Hayes, in the F-Land to come across. There's cold, Cole now.

A NASCAR champ, like Cole. But you were going to do, weren't you going to do a movie with Brad and Tom? I was. I was going to do a movie called Go Like Hell that became Ford Ferrari. Right. In, I think it was 2015 with Brad and Tom and got to the point where we, I had them both in a room reading the script together, which was pretty amazing. Wow. Yeah.

And that's, we've never seen them together, have we? No, we all, of course. Interview the vampire. Yeah. Yeah. Well, at least it bore some different fruit. Yes. No.

It all worked out. When I watch the scene, I smile because I see Lewis Pullman in the back seat there on that shot. And in the movie, he's saying the lines, but in the dailies, he's saying, I forgot my line. I have no idea what I'm doing. But it doesn't matter. We told them, if you forget your lines, just say anything. Count to 10 if you have to. We'll make it work in ADR.

And that was one of the funniest takes. I remember watching Lewis just freak out. Just bob your head a lot. We're concerned. We'll fix it later. It's hysterical. You did a great job. They all did.

I mean. Well, you have to convey a lot with your eyes and you're just like your movement. No, it's a different way of acting. When you've only got this much showing, all that has to come through there. So it was a learning process to make sure that we were doing what we needed to do to tell the story. By summer movies, Hello Fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James.

We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Shalamey playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme.

Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos' Bougonia. Dwayne Johnson's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel, teaming up again, plus Daniel Day Lewis's return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about two. Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2. And Edgar writes, The Running Man, starring Glenn Powell.

Search for Raiders of the Lost Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from the League, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We come together to host Unspooled, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, musts season, and in case you missed them. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night.

So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic adventure. Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to hit the follow button. Okay, it's official. We are very much in the final sprint to election day. And face it, between debates, poll. releases, even court appearances, it can feel exhausting, even impossible to keep up with. I'm Brad Milkey. I'm the host of Start Here, the Daily Podcast from ABC News, and every morning

my team and I get you caught up on the day's news in a quick, straightforward way that's easy to understand, with just enough context so you can listen, get it, and go on with your day. So, kickstart your morning. Start Smart with Start Here and ABC News, because staying informed shouldn't feel overwhelming. So it's been a year plus since the film came out, as I said, a $1.5 billion, awards, consideration, awards that were won. Look, it took over three decades for a sequel to be made.

I find it very difficult to believe there haven't been at least a few meetings at Paramount, brainstorms. Can we come up with something? Have you been a part of those discussions? I haven't. I mean, listen, I can't help myself, you know. As you're about to go to sleep at night, the brain dreams.

And, of course, you can't help but think of if there was another one, what would that story be? What, how could we possibly, what's the emotional reason to bring Maverick back? What's the challenge? Having done this, how could you possibly? push it further enough that there is a challenge there to go beyond um so of course you think about those things but for me i've i've got this f1 movie in front of me right now yeah um i'm developing some other things tom's off shooting another mission and like you said possibly going to space

that's a good excuse though yeah so we've all got uh very ambitious things ahead of ourselves Is it the kind of thing where, like, I assume you're your friends with Tom, obviously. So like, is it the kind of thing like where it's understood, like when you have an idea to pitch him, you will? Or do you throw random ideas out as you know? No, I don't throw random. And I would only do it in person, you know. So maybe, you know, when Tom and I have dinner at some point, it'll come up. But, yeah, no, it's not something I would just throw out because also I'm busy here.

He's busy. Yeah, what's the point? Jerry's producing the Formula One movie with me. So Jerry and I are working hard on that now. But listen, it took 36 years for Maverick. Could take 36 for the next one. And who knows who does that. How about five?

In these times, five years is a lot between sequels. So somewhere in between. Yeah, I don't know. It's all about, you know, for me, it's about finding again, a story that I love, a challenge that's exciting, and that's, for me, that's why I do it, and I know that's why Tom does it as well. So this emotional sequence, of course, obviously, farewell to Iceman. This does seem like a opportunity, if you were going to sprinkle in more cameos, I could imagine a Rick Rossovic, a Tom Scarratt sneaking in there.

Was that considered? It was. It was absolutely considered, but ultimately, you know, you get to that question of fan service. Are you doing it for the fans? Are you doing it for the story? And what story are you telling? And right here, we were so honed in and feeling really good that we were right on a story for what needed to happen. It didn't make sense to...

Almost the distraction. Hey, check this out. Look who's here. And it wouldn't have been fair to those characters, ultimately, to include them as just cameos. Fair enough, yeah. So, yeah, you know, like I said, you have to be diligent in when making a film like this and make sure that you're always on point and not getting distracted. Before we get to the end, I should have mentioned the music, which is so fantastic of this film.

And obviously, a fascinating collaboration between very disparate sort of artists. Amazing, huh? Of course, we have Harold Faltermire, where it all begins. Yep. You know, we have Kenny Loggins in there, but we have Gaga, we have Hans Zimmer. yeah um again this like finding a cohesive music soundscape yeah no i mean you'd never think with three composers that that would come together but um i mean if you have hans in the middle of it he he was you know as soon as we heard gaga's uh track melody he instantly said i can use that

i can work that in the film so you got to give hans credit for knowing a great melody when he here's one. Right. And Harold Faltermeyer's themes are timeless. They just are. And so somehow those three elements combined to create, you know, score along with Lauren Balfe, who did some incredible work on the film as well to create what this film needed. But yeah, again, you're working with the best in the business. and a lot of a lot of good potential ring tones you could do the gong you could do any of those on your phone i'm sure not on mine but i'm sure on someone's uh i'm sure you can download those no gaga cameo there aren't many places where i could imagine she would have justifiably popped up

no no that would be tough she you know has a tendency to uh fill the screen i did get to shoot the music video with her, which was amazing experience. We shot it in like six hours in Inno Kern. It was 114 degrees out. And she gave it all and just belted out a great track for the film. So that was a nice bonus for getting to make this film. The most intense action sequence in the film, this is it, without a doubt. This is Tom doing something that with walleye,

the pilot who's a blue angel pilot flying the Toyabe Canyon in Nevada which is a low level training route meant to be flown at about 200 feet they're flying it at under 50 feet so special permission from the Navy the ride of a lifetime this pilot walleye who flew it

I mean look at that that is not CG that shadow is on the mountain next to him. When he landed, he said to me, the pilot said, did you get it? And I said, yeah, because I just watched the take. I said, yeah, I think we did. And he said, good, because I'm never doing that again. This is one of the best pilots on the planet, probably. And Tom is smiling through the whole sequence in case you're wondering.

Do you ever worry about his safety? You have to. Or do you have to put that out of your mind. Of course, I worried about all of them. But I had so much confidence in the top gun pilots that were flying. I knew they were in the best hands possible, and you see that in the film. I mean, there's always going to be a degree of risk when you're flying planes like this. But they were trained, and, you know, they were trained for ejection.

They knew what to do if something went wrong. But, yeah, certainly that was the thing that weighed on me most was, you know, some nights I'd go to bed going like what am I doing this is insane and no less than I mean Spielberg essentially telling Tom yeah thanks for saving movies I know that was crazy no he said the same thing to me on a conference call once which was very bizarre and surreal just like bite your lip and say thank you I know yeah it's like you don't even know what to do except say thank you because, you know, obviously I grew up on Steven Spielberg's movies. I loved everything he made. So to have him say that was pretty remarkable. And again, just another moment along

that whole journey where you're like, how is this happening, you know? You're just shameless. You're just setting this up here. This moment. Oh, Mav's going down. He's dead. Just pulling the bowstring back as far as you possibly could. Maybe too far. No, no, it worked. I mean, I, Yeah, I've seen a lot of movies, and I still thought, maybe he's going there. That's good. And when I think of great dogfights, I think back to a new hope in Star Wars. Star Wars guy growing up? Oh, of course.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, absolutely. I mean, that almost goes without saying. But you know, George, I mean, obviously, everyone knows this. George cut that to World War II dogfight footage. Right. So it started as airplane footage became, you know, Star Wars, which is why it works so well. And now here, you know, I know there's definitely some parallels here with the trench run.

But that all comes out of a military strategy, you know, flying down a narrow canyon, trying to avoid enemy radar, hit a very small target, the difficulty of doing that. And instead of Thai fighters, we have fifth-gen fighters, which are real things. Obviously, we didn't have access to the real ones, but we were able to create relatively realistic ones using a little movie magic. Did you have any trepidation about the facial hair for Rooster? Did you feel like, yeah, this is going to be a good way for the audience, the key into who he is, or that it might be too on the nose? it felt like he just felt like he needed it and and it's it's not like uh you know what i felt good

about it is when i went to the carrier and i have the photo i met a bunch of young aviators who were doing their first catapult launches um and landings where they train and like i looked at them and like half of them had the rooster mustache it's a navy i mean if anyone who knows navy pilots they wear that mustache the way it's trimmed the way it is so it fits under your mask Got it. So as soon as I saw that, I'm like, okay, it's not like we're pulling something out of the past here. This is a, the rooster stash is a real-life phenomena. Right.

And, yeah, and Miles just looked great with it. So this sequence with Hangman saving the day, always on the page? Does this go through iterations, as you recall? Hmm, hangman, I think it must have been there from early. I don't know if it was in the first draft that Glenn read. But, again, we felt like we'd set it up that he had earned it as a character at this point. Because the last time you see him, he's kind of on the deck, just desperate to get in the fight. So there's that one dangling variable out there that we've set up.

Yeah, I love that shot. coming up through the clouds that was shot off the coast of san diego and now that i think about it not to keep bringing up star wars the little han solo at the end of uh new hope definitely so then again this is like you can kind of only do this in like a top gun movie like this kind of like extended victory lap yeah sequence um cheering yeah getting out an airplane to a cheering crowd it's so great it's but it's it's like it's pure movie making there are things you can do in this film you can't do and any other and that to me was kind of fascinating and the challenge of making it is a little bit of buzzing the tower yep no coffee spill though you know again crossing the line crossing the line

possibly yeah so the interesting thing about the scene this this cheering on the deck is i didn't know i was shooting that scene to about 12 hours before it happened we were on the carrier getting ready to go out to see and had a whole week, two weeks of stuff we'd planned to shoot out there. And the morning we were set to leave, something broke on the carrier. And it was unable to go. And all of a sudden, all the scenes that I was supposed to shoot for the next two weeks, I had a full crew. Because we were going to be dockside, I couldn't shoot.

And I quickly looked at the schedule of what could I possibly shoot in a carrier stuck dockside the next day and there were two scenes. There was the scene in the hall where Warlock gives the final mission brief to everyone standing among the jets and the final scene of the movie

I know. No pressure. So Tommy Harper our producer somehow managed to find someone to crane the F-14 up onto the deck I got the cast together we pulled extras from the real crew on the ship

and said, all right, we got to shoot the end of the movie, guys. And actors, this, all this. This is all done dockside. The sun wasn't even out. Can I just say this line here is like the field of dreams. Dad, do you want to have a catch line of the last 20 years? Yeah. If you don't cry at this moment, it just works.

Thank God. Yeah, so I was saying the sun wasn't even out. This was a foggy day. The carrier was broken. Claudio put a light on a stand. I pulled the actors together. I just said, listen, I know you might not be prepared for this, but we got to shoot the end of the movie today.

And there's something about the challenge of doing something unexpected that just puts everyone on their toes. And I firmly believe the scene is better and works because it was shot under those conditions as opposed to, all right the big scene is tomorrow everyone get ready can't overthink it yeah thank God it worked out

because otherwise I didn't want to be the guy who screwed up Top Gun you did trust me you did not I mean look I'm allowed to say this you're not it's actually a better movie I love Top Gun this is a superior movie and it's insane to say that and then of course it's lovely

credit to Tony that had to do that no congratulations man I mean like this is like as you said a very special movie for a number of reasons and I can't think of a better filmmaker that could have executed this. Thanks is always for the time, man. Thank you, man. Always great to talk to you. Always a pleasure.

And yeah, let's do it again in a few years. I was going to say, we'll do this one, we can do Tron, we can go back and forth. Sounds good. All right. Thanks, man. See ya. If you want to watch all of Top Gun Maverick right now alongside me and director Joseph Kaczynski, just go to patreon.com slash happy, say I confused. It's right there for you along with all of our watchalongs exclusively.

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