Happy Sad Confused - Vin Diesel

Episode Date: October 19, 2015

Vin Diesel, star of The Last Witch Hunter joins Josh this week for a very rare podcast appearance! Vin talks about his indie filmmaking roots, writing the script for his first short film Multi-Facial in five days, the story why he passed on taking a role in Reindeer Games, and his dream project Hannibal. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Nathan Fielder, the comedian who brought you dumb Starbucks and Pigsave's coat, is back with more outlandish ideas to help real small businesses. This is his most ambitious season, yet you have to see it to believe it. Nathan For You airs on Comedy Central Thursdays at 10.9 Central or any time on the Comedy Central app. Check it out. Hey guys, welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. I am Josh Horowitz, and we are often running on a very, very special edition of the show. Every show is special, but this one, I'm very pleased to say, features a gentleman who's a ginormous movie star. He's a ginormous man, period, and frankly doesn't do a lot of podcasting.

I don't think he's done one before this one that we're releasing here at this very moment. is Mr. Vin Diesel, Star of the Last Witch Hunter. So we're going to talk about that and other things. But before I proceed into the proper podcast, let me introduce Sammy again. You guys know and lover. Sammy, hey. Hey, Josh. How's it going?

That's not your real voice. Let's hear your real voice. Hey, God. Oh, God. I'm trying to, like, contain my excitement right now. Why? What are you so excited about today? For Vin.

This is good. This is a good one. How long did you guys chat? About 45 minutes. Wow. Yeah, this was a little coup because he's, you know, he selects his press very carefully. And as I said, I think he hadn't done a podcast. I think he done Nerdist, which is coming out after this one.

So you'll get a double dose of a VIN this week in the podcasting realm. So, yeah, let me give you a little context of this conversation. Okay. So the movie that is opening this Friday is the last witch hunter, which is a, as it sounds, I mean, this is a crazy kind of done. Is it a comedy? Yes. It's a wacky comedy.

No, it's kind of like a Dungeons and Dragons inspired, you know, action adventure. With Elijah Wood. Elijah Wood. Michael Kane. Rose Leslie, if you're a Game of Thrones fan, really cool cast. And Vin is, if you're a fan of Vin, you probably know this. But he is a legit, hardcore Tolkien, Dungeons and Dragons, like, full-on geek. Makes me look like the coolest guy in school.

No, seriously. Oh, I love. My heart is full. Yeah. So it's good to see. know, legitimately to see a guy that is coming at this from a place of fervent passion and excitement. I mean, this is his baby. And we get into that. This is an interesting conversation in that Vin. So, Vin's a talker, first of all. You'll hear that. Like, there are a couple

stories he delivers here that probably last 10 minutes, but it's great. It's riveting and kind of fascinating. We talk about his beginnings. Again, if you're not familiar with Vin, like, he really came from indie filmmaking roots. He shot and directed and started. in a short film called Multifacial, that landed in, I think it landed in Cannes, and Steven Spielberg saw it, cast him in Saving Private Rhine, and the rest is history, basically. So we get into a lot of that, and we talk about, there's an amazing story in here, just to tease it out, where he was actually in the movie, a very kind of forgettable movie. They're not kind of like reindeer games.

Remember Ranger Games? I do remember Ranger Games. Ben Affleck, Charlize. Yeah. Right? He was in that film. He's not in that film. So he was in that film, and he was either five.

or left the film. It's a little fuzzy. You didn't get into it? Well, we did get into it. He tells an amazing story of, I mean, I think it's an informative story, frankly, for any kind of like, you know, young actors out there, actors that are coming into their own and kind of like, you know, they have their process. And then they work with like a, this film was directed like a legend in John Frankenheimer who was like, you know, had been through it all and had his own way of doing things. And they kind of came to blows. So I think it's, it's an interesting kind of like capsule snapshot of sort of like.

a young actor versus an old school director and like them coming to blows and kind of figuring out how that's going to work. It didn't work clearly. So we'll forward to that. So yeah, no, it was fun. This also just contextually, this happened literally right after his New York Comic-Con panel for The Last Witch Hunter, which I was lucky enough to moderate with him and Elijah and Rose and the director. And so we literally came off stage, went to a green room. Poor Vinn was shoveling down a turkey sandwich in the opening moments of the interviews. Where was it from? I don't know. I didn't provide him the turkey sandwich.

I don't know. No, but he didn't ask him or talk about it. Hey, hey, where did you get that? Can I get a bite? What's the best turkey sandwich in Manhattan, Ben? I felt badly because the first minute or two of the interview is him trying to wolf down the sandwich

as I'm just monologuing. I feel like it's important, important to say that like before you listen to this podcast, go to Vin's Facebook page. Oh, yeah. And it's like, you can get the whole experience. If you want the full-on 360 experience, that you're reminding me, Sammy.

First of all, let's give props to Vin for being like, I think he's the third most whatever number of Facebook friends. He has 100 million. His Facebook videos have brought me, like, pure joy, like the way a child feels joy. He likes to sing. Oh, my God. He's not afraid to show his body. That body.

And, and yeah, so he recorded in a fashion that only Vin Diesel can do a video of him backstage right before the panel and walking onto stage. So it's actually, it's kind of fun to just be in the shoes of like a big movie star as they're walking out to 3,000 people. Super excited. So check that out after this. It's very funny. And then come back for the interview. And then it's like you're Ben Diesel for that full moment. Yeah, exactly.

Like, if you want to be Vin Diesel for half a day. It's basically Vin Diesel Fantasy Camp is this podcast for you. I didn't know I wanted to be Vin Diesel, but now maybe I do. Maybe you are. You're like slowly morphing into him. It's going to take a while. Other things to mention, we put out a really fun video after our sketch with Jack Black last week for his film Goosepumps, which, by the way, is a super cute movie for the family.

But this sketches him as a ghost murderer. It's a little darker, weird, fun. All the stuff we do in After Hours is hopefully weird and fun, but this is definitely that. It is. I just watched it. Yeah. And I laughed like four times. I'm just kidding.

It was very funny. It really was. I love Jack Black. He's, I've said before, he's been on the podcast. He's like exactly what you hope Jack Black would be is Jack Black. Like your funny older brother. Yeah, yeah. He was awesome.

He was also wearing the same exact shirt that I saw him wearing the last time I saw him like six months ago. Was that the shirt he wore in the sketch? Was that, that was really his? That's his, yeah. I thought that you, it was like... That's not wardrobe. You can't afford that kind of thing.

Why does he have that? No judgment, whatever. No, it's amazing. Only he can pull that off. That's true. Like, if you wore that, you'd be shot dead in the stream. Who is it? Hey, you.

You look stupid. And we should tease, if you're listening to this on Monday when we release it, tomorrow Tuesday at noon we're releasing something that is really special his name comes up every damn episode but we have to mention it because his film is out and we shot a sketch we shot a sketch with Tom Hiddleston of Jessica Chastain that is bonkers there's a gimp there's a game we don't want to reveal too much more than that it's our third sketch with a gimp over the years can I just give a little okay I trust you a little bit of Josh did say when he came back that there were about 20 kisses that he received on the cheek.

Cheek, 20 cheek kisses from Jessica and Tom. Yeah, combined. Yeah, there was a lot of love. Not like, not, oh, I thought like each one of them gave me 20. I would have to go back to the videotape to see, to actually enumerate it. We'll get back to you next week on an actual number, but there was a lot. There's a lot of love in the sketch. There's a lot of aggression.

There's a lot of, yes, Sammy in the back. Can I do a follow up? Yeah, please. Did they switch off on who kissed you on the cheek or was it like Tom? went in and did 10 kisses, and then Jessica went in and did 10 kisses. It was kind of like a double tap from Jessica, and then Tom came in for a double tap on each take, and we did multiple takes. Okay.

As I recall, it was all the war. This was part of the sketch. That's so weird. I thought just like as a goodbye. It's like, who loves it more? No. Yes, there's dancing in the sketch. There's a gimp in the sketch.

There's kissing in the sketch. It's everything you want in an after hours, basically. No, very proud. of it. We're editing it as we tape this today, but I think it's going to come out great. So look forward to that on the MTV News YouTube page. And what else to say? This week, just in terms of movies coming out, you guys should check out, have you heard about this new Sarah Silverman movie? I smile back. I have. They say, like, she's going to win an Oscar. I don't, I don't know. I mean, it's always a tough field. She should certainly be in that race because she's amazing

in it. Yeah. Like, it's super dramatic. It is basically about a woman who's just wrestling with addiction issues, and it's just basically very depressed. It's a very sad but poignant character study, and she, yeah, to her credit, she really is amazing in it, and I think we'll open up a whole new aspect of her career with this. So no funny. No funny. I don't think I smiled much in this one. But that's out Friday. A Rock the Casbah. If you need your Bill Murray fix is out, or if you would just want to go back and listen to our Bill Murray podcast, we recorded at San Diego Comic-Con. Check that out. And of course, the last witch hunter. But that wasn't even Josh doing that.

The ghost just came into the room. Vin just jumped in. That's my Vin Diesel. Did you record your Bill Murray podcast before or after he stole Cheetos from our production office? Right before. That was amazing, huh? That was amazing. Well, it was like, it was a little bittersweet for me because, I mean, one, it's Bill Murray coming into the production office.

So, like. So, again, context. So we had just done, I just moderated this panel at Sandy. Comic-Con, just like the opportunity of a lifetime. Bill Murray, amazing, an hour. It was just phenomenal. Then he came over to MTV's kind of production space slash studio, did an interview with me there, the only interview he did at Comic-Con. And then, yeah, sauntered into our production office. Yeah, we're so like all the worker bee. We're all in there, like on our computers with our headphones in, like, and Bill Murray walks in, and it's just like the whole energy shifted.

What happened from your perspective? From my, okay. Okay. Okay. So I'm sitting and I'm facing the food table. So I monitor what everyone takes, not to judge, but to know how much is left of certain items. Sure. And there are certain items that go really fast. What goes fast in your...

Funions? Ew. Really? Oh, my God. Have you ever had one? Of course I had a funion. Look at me. Yes.

Well, then how... I don't believe you have because you just... Why would you make a reaction if you've actually tasted it? I don't like the consistency. I feel like it dissolves in my hand. Like, it's like a little brittle. This actually Well, shout out to Joel Hanick

I wish he was here right now I don't normally say that But I do right now Because he would back me up on the Funions Anyway, we digress The funnions, sour straws Any sort of like a gummy candy Yeah gummy I can see

Like a licorice Josh always likes the Diet Coke Keeps me spry He just injects it right into the side of his neck You can't see this right now but there's an IV dripping right now. Like instead of an happy pen. It's just, yeah, okay.

And then the cheetahs, and then the Cheetos. The Cheetos. Which is again, and the Funyan, it's similar to Funnians than that, it's like if there's a cost to a Cheeto and that your hands are coated in in orange powder for a day. They're coming after you. Whoever makes funnions and Cheetos are coming after you now. They're our sponsored today. And so, and then Bill Murray comes in.

And he's like just looking like Bill Murray Everyone's like freaking out But trying not to take pictures of him But at the same time they're like I have to send this to my parents And that M or Fer takes the last bag of Cheetos Look I mean he's entitled to it

For all the joy he's brought us He can have the last Cheetos I don't think so I really don't We're all in there We're working 16 hour days And there's one bag of Cheetos left And Bill Murray who probably has

This sponsorship Right. He probably has a wing of his house devoted to just Cheetos. He's like his half made of Cheetos at this point. And he takes a last bag. Wow. The one person on the earth that hates Bill Murray and it's over a bag of freaking Cheetos. I don't hate him. I don't hate him.

I just don't respect his Cheetos obsession. I don't understand. I think he's a little selfish. We spent a lot of time on this intro talking about movie stars and their eating habits. Yeah. So let's go right to that to Vin Diesel. The next sounds you're going to hear are Vin Diesel. are Vin Diesel trying to eat a turkey sandwich as I fumble an introduction to this conversation.

From an unknown restaurant. Yes, we don't know. We just don't know. Part two. Enjoyed this week's podcast with The Last Witch Hunter himself, Vin Diesel. What did his head smell like? It smelled good. It was manly and yet...

Moistrised? Definitely. He definitely tends to that. We're going to set the scene here, because as we tape this, then, it's been quite an afternoon for you and me, mostly for you. We just came off the stage of New York Comic-Con. That's crazy. I mean, is that still a rush for you to be out there, thousands of fans, a new property to hear the kind of response that we all just experienced? he's chewing i'm gonna pull the veil back should i not have said that been

no it's okay here's what happened here's the context he's mom i'm sorry i'm talking with my mouth full he's been on stage for over an hour yeah the dude needs a fight to eat i get it can i have a turkey sandwich well i'll just say this that um you know we've you and i've talked a lot over the years and it's it's it's thrilling to see you know what the word that comes to mind when i think of you is ambition and this is you're a guy that doesn't rest on his laurels you're a guy that's always creating always trying to push himself uh and it's cool to see a franchise like this that's born out of like a deep seated love come to life and it's throwing from my position and i just want to get a sense from you being out here to see the fans respond to that it's it's got to be a rush that is a

rush um you know you don't always think that you're not sure that the whole that there's a huge audience for fantasy because we don't see a lot of fantasy nowadays. So when you talk about wanting to do something in the fantasy, well, sometimes people in Hollywood will look at you like, huh, right. And yet, I think we were smart to couple it with, you know, to set it in a modern day setting, to, um, to, to delve

back and forth from the modern day present New York City and this pre-modern civilization world and I don't know it's just I'm still yeah we are we are kind of overwhelmed with how great that panel that was an exceptional I've done a lot of Comic-Con panels obviously in San Diego. But I don't think I've ever seen such a huge, warm reception and people so excited about a brand new IP. I was going to say, yeah. I mean, you know, obviously you get your questions about the other amazing thing of your work is expected, but thrilling to see how many people legit are ready to embrace this, which is really cool. Because we're in a time we alluded to this on stage where the easy thing is to go to something that has

some kind of intellectual property that's already has some kind of fan base. People go to that easy realm. Especially in Hollywood. I mean, in Hollywood, you know, studios and producers, that's the recipe. Find something that's been done before. Find an IP that's been somewhat successful and exploit it. And it's rare to kind of have the confidence or the ambition, as you mentioned before, the desire to start something from scratch. So since we have some time, as opposed to those horrible four-minute junket slots. Oh, you love those four minutes. We're going to go deep today.

One of us is going to cry. I'm not sure which one. Probably me. I always cry, though. It's boring now. I took the option. Actually, this morning I watched multifacial, which is about 20, it's been about 20 years in now, right?

That was your calling card way back when. That's exactly 20 years. It's crazy. Exactly 20. I made it in 1994. but I was in Cannes in 1995 with it. I mean, talk about an amazing story. Tell me where you were at in your life, in your career,

when you created that, which was, it just struck me. I frankly had never seen it before, but struck me as a calling card as a filmmaker, as an actor. It worked on so many levels. Was that a last ditch attempt to get going in the business? What was that at the time for you? well as you know i started acting when i was seven years old and i was fortunate enough to have a father that directed off off off broadway plays and um taught theater in brooklyn college so i was exposed to

that and and i was also raised in an artist housing so i was exposed to the arts um and i started acting at seven years old. And by the time I was 23 or 24, I decided to head out to California, head out to Hollywood and make it big. And I... Easy. Easy. Everyone can do it in a second, right? Like that? And I told all the bouncers that I was working with in the last 10 years, or the last five years at that time. I'm going to go to Hollywood and I'm going to be a big star. And I went out to Hollywood

and I thought the doors were going to fly open. I thought I was going to be offered every role. And a year and a half went by and I didn't have an agent. I couldn't even get an agent. And so

I had to head back to New York with my tail between. my legs. I was $10,000 in debt, and I had to think, I had to rethink my strategy. And one of the things I noticed at the time was that not only was I not offered roles, there weren't really a whole lot of roles created for me. Or I guess in Hollywood's eyes, there weren't a whole lot of roles created for me and because you didn't fit in that box I didn't fit in that box I was I was a little ahead I was for this millennium I wasn't totally I wasn't for that millennium I had no place in the last millennium I wouldn't have been that kind of six I wouldn't have reached that kind of success in the last millennium I had to wait for this millennium and and I had to somewhat take part in spearheading so that's what I did I went back to City College and became a writing major, an English major, with a writing concentration, with the sole purpose of writing scripts.

You know, when you're a musician or you're a painter, you don't need anyone's permission to be artistic. When you're an actor, you depend on other artists before you are ever given the opportunity. knew you to be artistic. You need a great writer, you need a great director. And I wanted to start filling some of those hats in service of my initial passion, which was acting. So I went back to college and I started writing scripts. And I wrote a feature film. And I wrote a feature film. And I actually tried to get it made and I couldn't get it made. And this is kind of important for anybody that's aspiring,

anybody that has dreams, anybody that wants to accomplish something. If you can't do it all, do what you can, it is such important advice and advice that I, I needed it because I was trying to do a feature film. And I couldn't get a feature film launch. Nobody knew who I was or what I was capable of or if I was capable at all. Right. And I was working at a, I was driving a truck for a catering company here in New York.

And one of the waiters at the catering company had just directed a short film. Now, to me, if you would have said short film, I would have said, what would be the value of that, right? But I remember going to a screening, a couple hundred people, and we all sat down for 16 minutes or whatever the length of the short film was. and this short film somehow was able to draw an audience

and that experience of being in the theater and watching a movie was real I remember everyone clapping at the end of the short film and everyone going up to the director and giving them you know props and love and and I thought my God, maybe I should just do a short film. I can't get the feature.

Maybe I should just simply write a short film. And that weekend, over a night, I wrote multifacial. In my bathroom, staring at the mirror, I wrote multifacial. And it was initially just a eight-page script. I Then there was a Forget the name of it There was a

A non-profit film organization I think somewhere on 12th Street Okay And university That would let you use their equipment Would let you rent a Steenbeck Because initially this was at the time when

editing was not on computer editing was splicing and using tape and hanging the strands of film and that's how you edited a movie half of the audience is like very confused during yeah it's so surreal it's like just it's it almost feels like another time yeah and um and I remember actually after filming for the first thing I did was you know I didn't have enough I knew the would take three days to make, but I didn't have enough money for three days worth of camera rentals. So I rented it on a Friday and filmed it over the weekend and returned it on a Monday. It was a little, not a scam, but a little kind of trick you could do to get three days' production

out of one day's cost. So you wrote it in a night, you shot it in three days. This is the best use of time in the history of mankind. It changed your life. It simply changed. changed my life. So much so that, I mean, I had to rent to Steenbeck and my mother was like losing her mind when I brought this huge machine into the house and said it has to say here for a month. She's like, I want that thing out of here. But mom, it's serving a change my life. Trust me.

Give me one second. It'll change your life, mom. It will be ripple effects. It's going to change your life, ma'am. the house you always want in the country? Just can I please? Can you not force this old contraption, pre-war

contraption out of my house? And then yeah, there's some other little lessons there too because after I finished the movie or after the movie was in essence in the can

it didn't get transferred yet. There was this whole transfer process. We used to go up to the mid-50s and 8th Avenue at a place called Duarte. That's where all the films went to get transferred. And I had abandoned multifacial for a minute. And I remember my father, it must have been about eight months after I had kind of abandoned this short film.

And the reason why I abandoned this short film was, I guess I was slightly impatient. And I felt like there was no value to. having a short film you'll never make a living off of a short film you can't sell a short film every the wine scenes are buying everything in sundance and their feature films people are becoming rich left and right what am i going to do with that short film and nobody had seen this short film i was the only one that's it i didn't show anybody my father used to say in in terms of giving me advice in writing he would always say don't tell anybody what you're writing don't show it to anyone don't look for any immediate gratification wait until it's done right there is power in withholding

until completion and i wanted to do the feature because i wanted to change my life i wanted to get it going yeah well it was something you would point to i mean the genius of it of course was like in that age where you couldn't send a link to a youtube think this was the closest thing you could it's not on paper this is how I act this is how I direct this is my view on the world take it or leave it and clearly somebody wanted to take it there was no iPhone there was no iMovie there was no vine there was no instagram there was no youtube yeah there was no youtube barely an internet and barely in internet i mean literally barely in internet um barely computers to be honest i wrote my first script on a word processor.

My first feature film that I wrote in the early 90s was on a word processor that I had bought from an electronics store called The Wiz. Nobody beats it. Nobody beats the Wiz. You know what I'm talking about because they had some new concept that you could return any merchandise in 30 days for any reason what you. so ever. And for like a New York hustler, that was just, are you joking me? This is probably the reason why they went out of business. They went out of business because of me. Because when I heard

that, I had gotten a credit card because I was in college the first time before I went out to California, I was in Hunter College. I got a credit card. And there was no way that I could pay for this $600 word processor for brother. But I could definitely make sure I could return and get back in 30 days. And the first script I ever wrote, which was strays. I wrote strays before multifacial. I wrote because I, in essence, rented a word processor from the WIS. The only way I would have loved that story more is if it was Crazy Eddies.

Remember that? Crazy Eddies. I was going to say because... That's way back. That's way back. That's way back. I think of my grandmother when I think of Crazy Eddies. I grew up in New York as well, and I think this is the only thing you and I probably share is the fact that we make more than me.

No, please. But I'm curious, do you feel like, I mean, I often in these podcasts and these interviews, New York comes up a lot on my end because I feel it defines my view on the world. I mean, you obviously, you don't live here, but I would think that is a formative part of who you are. How would you say your upbringing in that way defines what you are today? everything the multiculturalism that I feel like I've been a part of forcing into Hollywood comes from growing up in the melting pot of melting pots yeah when you grow up in Manhattan you're literally you're growing up and it's just hard to you in the face you can't it's there is like you're one of millions it's not and and in the 70s and 80s it's it's it's profound how I'm so grateful that I was raised in New York City because it is such a part of me yeah and such a part of my accomplishments and why I've come this far it is in everything

what you're exposed to in the arts. And I grew up in a time when Soho was just beginning. And so the Soho downtown, you know, it was 10 years after the hippie movement. And it was the next decade. And the arts came to Lower Manhattan. And I was a part of that. What were, I know your dad, your stepdad was a theater director, right? Talk to me a little bit about what you, what was your bread and butter in terms of

pop culture growing up. We know, of course, D&D was a huge part of your life. But like in terms of the filmmakers, the films that you could recite backwards and forwards that you kept coming back to, what was the first stuff that you really soaked into your DNA? Well, I was my father had a lot of friends that were actors that would come over. Some friends that were in the actor studio, various friends with different acting methods. and it wasn't uncommon for them to discuss. Alan Arkin was the best man at my father's wedding. Oh, my God.

Did you think of amazing? I don't think I ever told anybody that. Is that freaky? I haven't even seen the guy at 50 years. That's amazing. Yeah. You just cast the next mechanic in a Fast and Furious movie. I mean, I just thought about him because I saw a picture with him and, and Morgan Freeman and Michael Cain.

Yeah. And it just struck me like, I wonder if Michael Cain. I wonder if Alan Arkin told Michael Cain. I knew it when he was just a kid. Random of all random, amazing. So damn random. Anyway, but. So the discussion of acting.

And the discussion of method was, you know, common in my house, and amongst my father's circles. So seeing movies was part of the family business. And something that my father loved to do with us. We didn't go to, I mean, we couldn't afford to go to, like, the football games and the baseball games and concerts and even Broadway plays or any of that. It was movies. And, you know, we would try to fit under that line. We tried to fit under that line, but so do you remember there was any line when you would go into a movie that if you were shorter than that line, you'd pay it half price or something?

Got it. So the amusement part kind of rules. except that you get a discount instead of you're getting committed. Amazing. Yeah, discount if you could actually fit in the line. Or the matinees. We're a little cheap person. Or the matinees.

I mean, if I wasn't with my parents, one kid was going to pay a ticket and we'd all wait at the back door and sneak into the back door. Oh, I don't know about you. Yeah, I skipped many a day at school and just spent the entire day from theater to theater in early multiplexes. That's, luckily it paid off for me too. Yes, sure did. When we left the theater, whenever I would leave the theater with my father,

we discussed the movie and we discussed every aspect of the movie including and most importantly the acting so I was exposed to the actors that my father loved and the actors that my grandmother loved I was a big Clark Gable fan which I discovered when I did

the last switch under that Michael Kane was also a huge Mark Clark Abel fan. It's interesting. If you really think about it, there are a lot of similarities between Michael Cain and Clark Gable. They both had a way, they were both extremely talented, but had a way of coming off like an every man. Yes. And they had a way of looking as though it was off the cuff. And they weren't thinking about it. And they didn't, you know, labor over how to perform it. You don't see the gears turning. It's like Gene Hackman, I think of that.

It's like, everything is like, oh, he's making it up on the spot. And that's the goal for any actor. That's the goal for any actor to really be in the moment. So that's what I was doing. I guess to answer your question in some ways, I wasn't a kid seeing movies escaping from my parents' reality. I was seeing movies and understanding further my parents' reality

and their perceptions and their artistry and their sensitivities. And so at a very young age, being thoughtful and reflecting on all aspects, I was a fan of Bud Schilbert at a very early age. I mean, I actually met him, which was one of the coolest things in the world because I met him with Spike Lee and then we were talking about this movie, the script that he had written that I'm dying to do, and then that's a long story. Well, it's interesting to me to hear that kind of thought, and it confirms what I feel like I know about you, which is that, you know, you have the, I think from the outsider perspective,

you have this kind of A, B career in that, like, you have massive pop phenomenon things. It doesn't get any bigger than the kind of franchises that you've been a part of and helped create. And you've also, and someone would put this in a different category, worked with Sidio-O-Met, just worked with Angley, Stephen Spielberg. You created, you were, you were an indie film guy. That's what you came out of. I was a real indie.

As indie as you get. That's his indie. I was so indie. My shoestring budgets were just like string. I mean, it wasn't even a shoestring. Right. It was like dental floss budgets. So do you see it as two different things in terms of like, do you compartmentalize fast movies,

Riddick movies as one thing and Lumet and Angley as a different thing? Or have you found 20 years in, it's all the same. You can label it what you want, but it's kind of the same. It's all the same in the approach. It's all the, I approach an Angley film the same way I approach Fals and Furious. It doesn't matter what it is. That authenticity is authenticity. Yeah.

And that's part of the craft. And that's part of trying to master the craft and getting better at the craft. and I've been doing it for a lot of decades, and I'm still a student. As Ang Lee says about himself, and I could concur, I'm a slave to the art. I'm a servant of the art. Is that what the ambition is now? I mean, to go back to what we were first talking about,

what would you characterize the ambition now? Because, you know, you put yourself in the hands of someone like Ang, you continue a franchise like fast and it's hard to keep topping yourself but you're endeavoring to do it three more times you're launching a franchise i mean is that just something inherent in you and your upbringing in terms of like always wanting to kind of push and you know josh you know what stands out from today's incredible panel you know when i leave here what i'm going to be thinking about you know which comment I'm going to think of that. I don't.

That very earnest request for the realization of Hannibal. Which is obviously something you've wanted to helm for many years, and you're not giving up on that. So people go, oh, my God, you're Vindiesel, man. What's it like waking up being Vind Diesel? I don't think about that. the accomplishments.

Yeah. I only think about what's outstanding. I only think about what the things I will manifest. Yeah. I never even look at movies I've done. I never see. I never go backwards. Are you able to enjoy it then?

Because some would argue take a moment, take a breath, enjoy yourself in. That's fair. That is totally fair. People could argue that and people close to me could. people close to me could wish that I enjoyed the success more right do you learn something this comes up a lot of my conversations of this type of like learning from whether you call them mistakes or missteps or whatever they are we all go through our ups and downs

you know it struck me like I wasn't aware that you for instance relatively early on you worked with John Frankenheimer and I know you the old stories that you were asking you had questions and that John has quite a reputation as a tough old school filmmaker right this was on reindeer games

do you learn from an experience like that because obviously that didn't end well for it didn't end well for anyone especially Mira Max this is that just desserts you're like ha the movie didn't succeed without me oh god it didn't end well anywhere

but what you take away from something like that What do I learn from something like that? I'll tell you a funny story. I went in to Miramax, and I had just come back to New York for, I guess, a weekend, and I was multitasking in the sense that I hadn't seen my mother in months. I needed to see my mother, and wanted to spend time with my mother. So I went into the meeting at Miramax with my mother. And Harvey and Bobby and Harvey had a meeting with me.

And we were talking, they had summoned me with the idea that they wanted me to start in something. They said, we want you in something. We saw you in Sunday. We want to do something with me. What can we do with you? Yeah. We hear you just did saving prayer.

Ryan, we just, we want to, we hear that you did some sci-fi, nothing film over in Australia. You know, this is a time when Supernova had come out of like $2, $7 million, something like that. So people didn't have a whole lot of faith in whatever the hell we were doing in Australia. It didn't matter. It was nothing. Right. And I'm saying, but it might be something. It kind of felt good, guys.

Okay, if it's something and something. All right. I'm hungry no matter what, so it doesn't make it. So let's talk. So you have something. So, and my agent and managers were like, they want to give you half a million dollars to star in something. And get this.

You can pick one of five different scripts. It's just so couch-talkie. You don't even think that's real anymore But like, yeah We love him so much We're gonna pay him 500,000 And he can pick He can pick one of five different scripts

Amazing Like you want a kind of game show Yeah it's like So I get there and I And I'm like This is exciting You know I know you guys are huge And you guys have done such a great job

You know transitioning from Sundance to the Oscars I'd love to you know Blah blah blah blah and I say, hey, you know, we have one other thing. Yeah, we're going to give you this $500,000 deal. $500,000 deal. And that was a lot.

Same part right. I was at $60,000 or $75,000? In the worst time I ever got paid as an actor. And I spent half of that by giving my mother her first trip to Europe. And the other half went to the reps. So I'm this half a million dollar conversation is serious. This is a life changer at the time. It's a life changer for sure.

And so just as the meeting, oh, we love that you brought your mother in. We named our company up to Miriam and Mac. And it's really cool. I'm like, yeah, you guys, this is great. Yeah. And they said, we have one little small thing. There's something that we're doing over here. Director John Franker, it's a film called Rainier Games.

We want you to play this one character. We really think it's a, okay, what is the character about? What is he? Well, he's like a thug, but he can really, you can do anything you want with him and Frankenheimer. You guys, you know, talk to Frankenheimer and you can really manifest it. You can really create your own character with. This is the deal with the devil to get the final.

Leverner K and the pick. That's the idea. Exactly. And so I'm going, Hey, maybe this is a blessing. Okay, cool. All right. Who?

And Ben Affleck's, I just did boiler room with Ben Affleck. Yeah, and Danny Trayle and the dude from Mod Squad. And, um, Gary Henry and Charlene Thoreau. Okay. It's going to be cool. Find your games.

And I read the script, and I had tons of, ideas. So in order for me to do it, I had to have a conversation with John Frankenheimer. I get on the phone with him and I start, I don't think he even expected it. Yeah. Poor guy. I don't think he even expected it. And I just started going in about the character.

I like to do this. This is with this character. He's from here. He comes in. He's got Coke bottle glass. I mean, I'm going really creating a character, trying to really assist this film. Right. This is not coming from a selfish place.

This is your process. You're creating a character, a significant character. You've seen Boileroom. You've seen I'm doing these characters and trying to contribute something to the movie set in. And he says, oh, I love it. Oh, great. Yes. Oh, perfect.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, sure. That's good. Oh, yeah, great. That'd be perfect. Oh, super. Yeah. Oh, great.

Okay. Wine scenes? Yeah, I'll do it. I had a really good conversation with, uh, I have. I get up to Vancouver. Yeah. I feel like I'm there. I'm tense.

Just feeling this built up. We're at a table reading. Hey, Ben, Iena. Hey, oh, hey. Oh, hi. Hey. Hey, hey, hey, man. Oh, you're cool, man.

Yeah, I love you. Tim Brown, right. And we sit around. We're doing this reading. And I, I, everyone's making line changes. As you do. Yeah. This line is one.

Can we come over with another life? And I want to change this line. And I had like a one word. I don't know if it was like a something like these or those. Like literally like nothing. I changed the possessive article here. It was zero and there was nothing significant at all. Right.

And he did something very dismissive. and just which is the worst thing he could do to an artist he just went no just keep it that because just keep that and then I'm sitting around

for another hour and I'm watching everybody change your lines and not necessarily for the better and so I'm like huh and then I'm like

hmm maybe I have to have a conversation with him And so I say, can I talk to you about this? And he says, yeah, yeah, yeah. At the end of the day, I'm really, I got a lot of people I got to talk to you at the end of the day. So I wait from lunchtime until about 7 o'clock. And I'm waiting, and I'm waiting, and I'm waiting. And then finally he calls me into his trailer after everyone is going.

Gripsick tear stuff down and I'm the schlub that's been waiting waiting waiting and he calls me in the trailer and he has the writer there

I'd love to find that writer that was there it was Aaron Kruger right wasn't he be able to find him I'd love to hear the story of this yeah I would love to just for my own clarity

just my own reminiscent and he invites me to the truth and he says, look, here I've been. You're a new person in Hollywood. I mean, really. I mean, you know, dead saving prime, but what have you done?

Listen, I know, I told you stuff on the phone. But I'm, too busy, too old, and too goddamn wretch to worry about what I said on my heart dropped. Oh, man. My heart dropped. Like, well, yeah, suddenly it went from collaboration to antagonism and dismissiveness. That's the, these are not the hallmarks of a creative set. Or the Hollywood that you.

you've dreamed of your whole life. The Hollywood that you dream of your whole, and the experiences that I've had, I mean, Ben Younger couldn't have been more collaborative. Right. That whole scene of me holding up that speaker and boiler room

came from my real experience, selling tools. It's what I did. Yeah. I went from filming strays to a 47,000, dollar film to at the time a huge was $67 million saving by Ryan and what what was so remarkable and so refreshing was I saw the same enthusiasm from Stevens Wilburne yeah yeah and that was

empowering that made me feel great about Hollywood but this cynicism the let's just get through the day God. I've never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever seen anything like this. And he must have seen that my heart dropped because I was very calm about it. And once he said that I can be sometimes that person, I don't know if it's good or bad, but I can be that kind of person that if I feel like I've been cross somehow. Yeah. that New Yorker kicks in. Yeah, not totally.

And he said, and I said, well, I did just do this movie called Pitch Black. And I'll say, I also do the movie called Spoiler Room. Yeah. I'm not just a hired hand. I actually do know my shit. There's stuff that I've done. And you know that I directed a few things and was in Sunday. it's in dramatic competition in his choice.

But that was just, but you're right. Because he said something like, there are thousands of actors in Hollywood that would love to have this role. And I said, you're right. And his face changed. I said, there are thousands of actors in Hollywood that would love to have this role. And you should give it to one of those thousands of actors. And it's faith change and he said, you saw it in an instant when somebody realizes, I guess, who you are or something about the core in you?

Well, yeah. This is not the pawn piece that I need, this like lifeless, just the vessel. This is someone that actually has ideas. And I don't have the energy at this point in my career to deal with collaboration. Yeah. Or, oh, my God, did I just, did I mishandle somebody that is really going something, is really deeply, and is all of this coming from a real place? And he said, when his faith changed, he went, ah, well, what are the ideas? And he had the writer there. and I humored him

and started telling him the writer was just like that's a great idea oh yeah we could do that oh that's super and but my heart was already broken it was over

yeah my heart was it was like broken and he gave me he said come on come on give me a hug and he gave me a hug and I just looked at him

kind of like wishing him well but I knew he was the ship had sailed and I got back to my hotel and the first person I called was my mother and I said mom I've got too much

I don't feel like I could go against my code here I don't think I can take the half a million dollars yeah well the integrity is a little more worthwhile than the 500 K and I remember telling Danny Trejo Danny Treo, we shared a car home, and I'm looking at him like, and he's just like, no, just be cool, man, it's going to be okay. And, nah, it's not going to be okay.

And the first person I called was my mother. I said, Mom, I don't, I'm not going to be able to do this. And I'm almost asking her to forgive me for potentially losing the only half a million dollars our whole family line would ever see. Right. the second person I called was Stacy I know her time is short and I want to cover a couple other things before you run

you mentioned Hannibal which will happen this is going to come into existence because of you Josh Hart all of us together were you serious do you think before the fast franchise ends you're going to direct one of these is that something that's important to you that you feel is the right

makes the most sense no I mean there's a method to my mother's madness so I think when she says director I don't do it I think she's basically saying you don't have to do everything essentially or get back to your directing thing Or she, in some ways, I think she's trying to support my standards.

You know, she was really supportive when I turned down too fast, too furious. She's, she, she, she likes it when I, I stand up for things. And there's a method to my madness. And, but she wants me to direct desperately. So is it a case of like, you obviously have Gary Gray and there are plenty of really cool filmmakers you will find to finish us out. And meanwhile, you've got Hannibal, which will clearly be that project that sounds like. I'd like Justin Lynn to have, I feel like Justin Lin's done a lot of work in the franchise. My heart feels like I would want to make some available for Justin

Lynn. Totally. Talk to me as we kind of wrap up. I'm just curious, like, again, as an appreciator of acting, of film, as a fan today, what do you get off on? What's exciting? Because this is the time for us, right? This is like, it all happened. And, And you're reaping the benefits. I'm reaping it from my end. What are you enjoying in pop culture? I mean, are you a fan of all the comic book films? What's been the most exciting kind of stuff you've seen in recent years?

Um, I, I guess, I'm, I'm excited about David Eyre. I'm he was you know a fast one alumni and he the fact that he's

just directed that movie for looks amazing suicide squad yeah looks so much fun and I'm so proud of him and I know his heart's in the right place and I know he's really going to

do something special that's the most recent time I went oh yeah yeah Is inhuman something that you feel is a real thing or is one of those fun things they're going to talk about? And it's a dream. If it happens, we'll see.

Is that something you serious? I don't do too much if it happens. Okay. So I should, yes. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Whether smoke, there's fire usually with you. If they smoke, they're fire.

But I don't do too much if it happens. It's more at what level will it happen. I just got through telling you this whole story. Yeah. Reindeer games happened. Yeah. But it wasn't going to happen the right way. Yeah.

So it's not a matter of me wooing Marvel. It's a matter of Marvel wooing. Fair enough. And I love them, but I'm just saying, show me a dope script and show me a great director. And all of which I know that Kevin is capable of because he dazzled me when he suggested Groot. I mean that was like profound to me

of course he was you know playing off of the iron giant so it did feel like a natural next step for that but in a way to service the iron giant in a kind of new form yeah yeah but no it couldn't have gone better I mean it could have gone better it was I thought it was genius so I'm I'm not doing anything

just for work yeah I'm doing things that I could feel passionate about and that I feel I could contribute to. And there are so many times where someone will offer me a script and I'll say, this script would be better for so-and-so, or this role would be better for so-and-so. That just happened two weeks ago with a friend of mine who runs a studio. And I want to really feel like I'm making a contribution and that I can and that there's something thematic that I believe in when I make a movie. It's been fun to dive deep with you today, man. I'm so thrilled for The Last Witch Hunter.

As you know, I love this one. It's a lot of fun. And to see it come, as I said, out of like a good place. There's nothing like calculated about this. It's out of love and it's out of a lot for the audience and a love of your core beliefs. So next time you have to teach me how to drive one of these days. I still don't have my driver's license. Get out of here.

I don't. I'm still in New York. I never got you shitting me I always see you in LA yeah well I'm here I'm still here buddy so I will teach you how to drive like you won't believe I mean I'm gonna teach you I'm gonna take you this stunt driving school with me I'm ready that's what I should do with the other next fast totally I'll suggest it on the next fast interview let me take Josh over to us one of my stunt driving schools and let him play around show yeah I'll take you with me it's a lot of I'm ready.

It's dangerous, but it's fun. It's good fun. I'll trust you. You should trust me. It's good to see, buddy. Congrats again. Always good to see you, Josh. And, you know, when I see you and when I talk to you, what's refreshing about talking

to you is I have a history with you that includes some very memorable and important moments to me. So I'm talking to a friend and I'm talking to somebody that I trust. So it's always, always good to talk to you, Josh. Thanks, man. On to the next one. Yeah, baby. Hello, podcast listeners.

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