Happy Sad Confused - Wagner Moura

Episode Date: February 5, 2026

Wagner Moura is not only the pride of Brazil, he's a first time Oscar nominee! He joins Josh to talk about his career, from telenovelas to NARCOS to his award winning turn in THE SECRET AGENT. SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! QUINCE -- Go to Quince.com/HAPPYSAD for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Technology companies. Solar energy. Robotic pollinators might be a thing. A wrestler to face a robot, that will have to happen. So whatever you think is going to happen in the future, you can invest in it at WealthSimple. Start now at WealthSimple.com. Brazilian passion is like, is like no other. You know that. You know that first step. I love that. I have to say, I love it. I love it. I think, and I love to see

Brazilians engaging with a cultural product because it's, of course, the football, our football, what you guys call soccer, it's also a cultural Brazilian landmark as samba, as carnival, you know, and I love all that. But films is like to see, like, it's like to see, it's like to see, Brazilian's rooting. for us the way they root for athletes. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins. Hey guys, welcome to another edition of Happy Say It Confused. I'm Josh. And hello, especially to everybody in Brazil.

You're all listening and watching, right? We have Wagner Mora in the house today on Happy Say It Confused, first time guest. I'm so excited to welcome the star of the secret agent and an Oscar nominee to the pod for the very first time. Thanks guys, as always, for listening, for watching. However, you're enjoying. Happy, Seek, Confuse, you are much appreciated. I've had Wagner on the list for some time.

I know a lot of folks I've been hearing you out there online. I've wanted to see and hear Wagner on the podcast for a long time, and I'm so happy it's finally happened. If you don't know about Secret Agent by now, you're probably listening to this podcast for the first time because you guys have good taste. The Secret Agent, of course, is Oscar nominated four times over, including a Best Actor nomination for Wagner. It is a tale about totalitarianism, authoritarianism in the late 70s in Brazil, but it is very much a tale about the times we're living in now. It reflects a lot of what we're going through around the world, certainly. And it features a fantastic star performance from Wagner, who you know and love from elite squad,

from Narcos, from civil war, from so many great projects. And it's really exciting to see him take center stage on the world stage with this project. He was a delight. Wagner is so intelligent, so cool. What a great conversation. I'm so thrilled to share this with all of you. Before we get to that, though, quick reminder, as always, our Patreon is how we keep the trains running around here.

Patreon.com slash happy, say I can't fuse. Get early access to all our podcast, bonus materials, merch, discount codes to our live events, so much more. Check it out. If you like what I do and want to support what I do and want to see more of what I do, Patreon.com slash happy. sad, confused. We are in, I guess we're in kind of the final stages of award season. I've got at least one, probably two or three very cool Oscar folks still to come on the podcast in the coming weeks.

So stay tuned. I've got you covered. I'm really excited for the next batch of episodes. And yeah, and that includes certainly this one. Wagner Mora, I'm not going to say anymore except to say this guy is so intelligent, so well-spoken, so has such clear, good taste, and a good head on the shoulders in terms of his approach to art and politics and the marriage of the two. Yeah, you're going to enjoy this one. If you enjoyed half as much as I did, you're in for a treat. So without any further ado, here's my conversation with the star of the secret agent. It's Wagner Mora. Here we go. Wagner Mora, you were officially unhappy, sad, confused. sir, welcome to the show. Thank you for your time today. Thank you very much. I'm very happy to be here

with you, man. It's been a long road for you. This is all for a very, very good cause. I've actually, I've been in your orbit a few times. You probably haven't clocked me, but I saw you at tell your ride. I was at the table next to you at Critics' Choice. It's all been leading to this, Wagner. This is the right of passage to spread the good words. Sorry. Exactly. It was meant to be. Here we are. Now, congratulations, man. The film is fantastic. Needles to say, four Oscar nominations. You can tell how accomplished the movie is. If you go on Wikipedia, the awards section is about a mile long.

So that's the reason why all these months later we're still talking. First, just talk to me. Yeah, yeah. Talk to me a little bit as an Oscar nominee for the very first time. Who's getting the plus one or plus two? How many tickets do you get? Kids coming? Oh, well.

So, yeah. Of course, I'm taking my wife with me. a son and that's what I got. I applied for four more tickets to an extra extra tickets so I could buy them but it says it's pending you know so it's they haven't approved that yet. So I don't know, I have a friend coming from Brazil is a very good friend of mine. I'd love her to join or maybe my boys, my kids. I don't know if it's going to be a boring thing for kids to watch, although they're not kids anymore. So, yeah, so maybe I'm going to bring my boys.

If they give me the extra. You've got some pull now. I think it's going to pan out for you. I mean, you know, you've obviously, you've had a lot of great accomplishments in the career. But does this run feel particularly special since launching it can? Yeah, of course.

Yeah, it's like, yeah, major. recognition of the film of, you know, of Brazilian films, you know, like it's been like since last year with I'm still here, we are experiencing a very, very beautiful wave in Brazil, especially of people like rooting for the film and supporting the film and engaging in social media and that I think it's kind of amazing and it's beautiful. So yeah, no, it's been a very special moment for, yeah, for me as an actor, for the film, for Brazilian cinema. It's very special. I mean, I can speak even from my limited advantage when I've never had the pleasure

of being to Brazil, but being someone that's engaged in, you know, film culture, celebrity culture over the last couple decades. And anytime I talk to Brazilian actors, someone adjacent to that world, every, like, tweet is like, when are you coming to Brazil? Come to Brazil. it's like the Brazilian passion is like, is like no other. You know that.

You know that first thing. I love that. I have to say, I love it. I love it. I think, and I love to see Brazilians engaging with a cultural product because it's, of course, the football, our football, what you guys call soccer, it's also a cultural Brazilian landmark as samba, as carnival, you know, and I love all that. But films is like to see, like, it's like to see.

Like, it's like to see, Brazil is rooting for us the way they root for athletes, you know, like, and it's beautiful, you know, because it's, that country has a very, it's a very unique country culturally. Brazil is this gigantic country in South America that speaks Portuguese and consumes its own culture. And it's very, you know, it's very diverse. Did you know that Brazil has the biggest Japanese community in the world? Isn't that amazing? Yeah, it's in San Paulo or it's, or Salvador. my hometown is the blackest city in the world outside Africa, you know, big Lebanese, Syrian, Italian, German.

So it's a very diverse country. It's like the Brazilian passport. It's the most wanted passport in the black market because everyone can look like a Brazilian. This is a very diverse and beautiful countries. So it's kind of cool to see people like, oh, like seeing themselves. in a film in a cultural, you know, a product and rooting for that.

And because I have this, yeah, like, no country develops without that, I guess, you know, like, without building identity, building, like. And I think that that's what we're helping, cinema, Brazilian cinema is helping out, like, to create an identity. It's crazy because it's like, it's all these South American countries,

our films, from Argentinian films, Peruvian films, or Chilean films, all of them are sort of like films in search of an identity. It's different from European films or even from American films.

It's like films that are searching for to create an identity for the country. And I think that that's a very healthy thing. Well, that's, yeah, I mean, that's how certainly America has been viewed for decades through the prism of television and more importantly, film, iconic. Like those iconic images go around the world

and they define who we are. What we understand is, what the U.S. is, exactly. I grew up watching American films. So I have every time I think about Christmas, although like Christmas in Brazil, it's summer, I think about snow, you know, and I think about, you know, the American Christmas movies.

And so it's, yeah. And it's beautiful, like to export that identity, but also to create identity, identity within the country, like just so the citizens would see and recognize with those symbols and those cultural landmarks that they otherwise wouldn't even notice. You know, that's what's beautiful about art and books and visual arts and films and like a theater. It creates identity.

We'll be right back with more HappySeg Confused. With Amex Platinum, you have access to over 14. airport lounges worldwide. So your experience before takeoff is a taste of what's to come. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply.

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See life in panorama, because You're worth it. Shop L'Oreal Paris Panorama Mascara on Amazon now. Let's set up. I mean, a lot of my audience will probably have seen this film or know about this film. But give me a little sense of just like the mission statement behind something like this. Like, how does this one come around in terms of your collaboration with the director, what you want to put out into the universe? And did this succeed in all respects or surpass your expectations? Oh, yeah.

And then you suppress our expectations in terms of recognition, right? I knew Clever Mendonso was a director that was, you know, all of his films were all in Ken. And he was always, all of his films were in New York Times critics pick. And he's being in this film festival circuit, like, since he started as a filmmaker. But what happened to this film, like, like Academy Award nomination? and all that's been very suppressed our our our intentions i guess our our best dreams our but what we wanted like this comes this came from a very personal thing i guess that clubber and i shared uh we we knew each other you know when we met in can he used to be a critic and 20 years ago we met in can he was

interviewing me for a film that i did 20 years ago but we became friends and then And I started to see his films and I really wanted to work with him, especially after. So his first film, a film called Neighboring Sounds, which is, I think it's a masterpiece and very Brazilian film rooted in that tradition that I was just mentioning left, like trying to create it, to understand like a very political film and understand what kind of country that is. But the secret agent came from a very personal thing, which was, which was, what it was to be to live in Brazil under a fascist government which was under Bolsonaro from

2018 to 2022 and Cleber and I were both very vocal against him and we both suffered the consequences of that so it's I think that the I knew exactly what this film was going to be about what that character was going to be

it was not it was not like the kind of thing that like a director shows a script and hey, would you like to be in this film? It was like something that we kind of like created. I'm happy to be one of the producers of the film. To create together, it came from a very, yeah, personal necessity, like to talk about how do you stick with your values when everything around you is saying the opposite. You were saying, though, I mean, under Bolsonaro, you felt the repercussions years ago. Can you elaborate on that?

Like what was the cost you took as an artist for being so outspoken back? I directed the film called Marigella, right? Like this was my first time that I directed anything. And it was a film, it is a film that I'm very proud of. It's a film about a real character, the leader of the resistance in Brazil, the armed resistance against the detectorship. Bolsonaro himself is a fan of the detectorship, right? Like he openly praises the detectorship.

He thought that he thinks that the dictatorship was a very, very, very much. very, very good moment in the country. And he actually openly, when Dilma Rousseff, one of our presence, was impeached, not impeached, he was a victim of a coup d'etat, like a political coup d'etat. Back in 2016, he was a congressman, and he dedicated his vote to impeach her to a torturer, a guy called Brilliant Uistre. He said, I want to dedicate this to the, to this very important man of this.

Brilliant Ustra was a guy who would torture parents in front of their kids. So that's how disgusting this human being is. And so when I directed the film called Marigella, about Marigella, who was a freedom fighter, a guy who was killed by the detectorship and fought against the detectorship, he took it personally.

And of course, I was saying lots of things openly, against him and his government. But I guess I understood that fascists, they are not as concerned. For them, what we do is way more dangerous than what we say. I could spend, I mean, if I had social media, I could spend the entire day saying, no, Bolsonaro is a fascist.

That wouldn't have the same impact of, like, doing a film, like the one I did. Right. You know, and so I did the film, I directed the film in 2017, end of 17, beginning of 18. Bolsonaro became president in 18. My film was premiered in Berlin in 2019, and I couldn't release the film in Brazil.

He found a way to censor my film. But it wasn't censor like back how it was during the dictatorship. Like, it was not going to happen. It was like a cynical censorship. but he just blocks all the possible ways. And Brazilian cinema is very dependent on government fundings and things like. There's an agency that regulates what we do that.

So that's what it was. I mean, I could only release the film in Brazil in 2021 after lots of like a big fight. You know, and the worst about these people is that they empower, as you know, like their followers in their worst. You know, people that are kind of living in a parallel universe of information. And so it became sort of dangerous in many, in many places that we were premiering the film and having, like,

release in the film, we had to have metal detectors at the door, you know, because we were receiving threats of like, we are going to kill you guys. So it was, it wasn't, it was, it was hardcore. And but also it was a fight that I was happy to. to participate, you know. You're also no stranger, though, from what I gather, like throughout your career for your films to be politicized, whether you intend them to be or not.

I mean, elite squad was kind of politicized in a way that you didn't anticipate or want, right? That was kind of appropriated by forces that were out of your control, for to say. Yes, yes, but if I were right, but I think that's all part of what we do. Like, I think it's like, I don't

with elite squad I was very surprised by the way the film was seen by the right like they really because for me also elite squad was like a film about let's show how the police

operates in in Brazil and you know and how how you know sick that system is but the rights saw the film as an apology to police brutality.

And I think that's part of the game. You know, that's part of what, like, you can't control, like, the meaning of, of, I can say what I thought and what I, yeah, when I made the film and when I did, but I can't control what people think about it. That's actually very interesting. It is fascinating. I mean, I go back. I've been learning so much about it's crazy, but sorry.

I've been doing this Q&A is about the secret agent and talking to journalists and all it. And I've been learning a lot about the film, things that I didn't know. You know, and it was like, and yeah, some journalists say something to me. Oh, yeah, that makes sense. And learning about human nature and what we see or choose to see, again, we're all kind of more than ever reinforcing our own beliefs through whatever we see. But like, I mean, what you just talked about just there, like reminds me growing. up like we're about the same age i don't know if like paul vera hoven's movies meant anything to you but i always think of like you know robocop's starship troopers and like those like fascist

those anti-fascist movies that were seen by some as glorifying fascism when in fact that he was the biggest critic of fascism exactly yeah yeah so i love verhoven he's a he's a hero so so talk to me a little bit about actually i'm curious if you'll indulge me talking a little bit about growing up for you, what your influences were, I don't know, just as a budding artist, as someone that was coming of age in the 80s, what were you consuming as a filmgoer, a TV goer? Were you watching world cinema, American cinema? What were you consuming? I was watching a lot of American series and films, American blockbusters and television.

Lots of Brazilian telenovelas. It's another Brazilian cultural. Which you ended up being a huge part of your career. I did two of them. Yeah. And it was great. Listening to music, listen to lots of Brazilian music.

That's something that I lot, listening to samba, but also listening to American and Brit rock. You know, like the British bands from the 80s, you know, the Kier, Smiths, you know, New Warner.

You know, like those, those, and then in the 90s and then when I started to, and I was like in 16, 17, I started to, I discovered right ahead and was like, oh my God, what was that? And in terms of, in terms of the film work, I mean, I know like you've, I would imagine like, sure, you discover at some point like we all do. If we're cinefiles, we discover the works of Mike Lee and Ken Loach and all the socially conscious kind of stuff. But like, again, being my age, I would imagine you're also, you must have seen. like Schwarzenegger and Stallone and Star Wars and all that stuff. Rumble, yeah, and all those yeah, absolutely.

In the 80s, you know, that's when you would go to VHS store to all would, you know, see many, many of those films like, yeah, Rumble and whatever Schwarzenegger was doing as well and killing the amount of people that they killed

in those films. But also, So too, by that, back then, like, when I was like 1718, I discovered the Italian neorealism, you know, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, the, the, the, the Italian near realism with, with, with, with, with, when I saw, uh, I remember when I saw bicycle thieves or when I saw, um, Roco and his brothers or Rome opens it. Those films, uh, were like, for me was, like, like, because I connected it immediately with, the Brazilian films from the 60s, the movement in Brazil called Cinema Novo, like working class people and doing films with no money and handheld cameras

and doing in location, non-professional actors, all that, I think, that started to, with merged into, also into the French New Wave and all this, but it kind of made me think of like again about identity of like, oh,

that's sort of like how we, Brazilian filmmakers operate. It's again, like trying to understand the country and that's why there's so many documentaries coming from Brazil. And the handheld

camera work and all that. It's like true. And you just mentioned Mike Lee and Ken Lodge. So I started to discover all the Dardan brothers. You know, like those filmmakers that made

films about people that felt closer to me than Stallone and trust in there. You know, like, I know these people. I know, I know them. It's like people there. I mean, I came from a working climate. My father was a sergeant of the Brazilian Air Force, and my mom was a houseworth.

I knew people like those people and those. Starting with the Italian neolism and making that transition to understand the Brazilian films, like how I loved. films about people that I kind of knew. You could recognize. Yeah. Co-Hourke.

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I knew my routine had to change. So I switched to Garnier-Missler water. It gently cleanses, perfectly removes makeup, and provides 24-hour hydration. Clear away the evidence. with the number one Misslerwater worldwide by Garnier. What was the first, like when you started to get serious about it, what was the career that you realistically imagined for yourself? Was it in TV?

Theater. Theater. Yeah, theater stage. Because I come from Salvador, Bia, which is northeast of Brazil. It's not the center of like, it's like, I don't know what would be the equivalent here. But it's not New York. It's not L.A. It's not Chicago. It's very interesting culturally, but it's, it's, it's,

I don't know. It would be... So from actors from that part of the... Also, there was lots of internal xenophobia in Brazil. It still is. And in the Secret Agent, there was a scene about that, like in the restaurant, the restaurant scene. That's still a thing.

Like, there was lots of prejudice against people that came from... from where Claver and I came from. So an actor that from Salvador would never be in a... telenovela back in the 90s, you know, because they spoke with the, with the Rio de Janeiro's accent and they had to have some sort. It was, it wasn't, it was out of my league completely. So was it a major breakthrough then getting into the telenevella game for you? And how did that happen if that was not the norm? I know, I think the world was starting to change, you know, like the end, and, and, and, and,

it's being in the right place. Lots of lucky. Opportunity meeting. Opportunity. I remember when I was doing theater and we were doing this play and the play, we performed the play in Rio and the play was a big hit there. And then Brazilian films back in the end of the 90s, beginning of the 2000s, that's when we called

the retomada like the restart of Brazilian film industry and the Brazilian film directors were exactly looking for faces that were not like

the television kind of you know profile so that was exactly when me and those actors from the Northeast arrived in Rio

and San Paulo and we started to make films and from films from being recognized by cast directors in films they would go like

oh, so maybe this guy could be in a telenovela, but like, because the Brazilian star system is built around novellas, a lot of soap operas. Like, that's where actors make money and become famous and all that. So I started, we, myself and people from my generation, some actors started to be accepted in the telenovelas universe in the beginning of the 2000s, without having to play stereotype.

characters. So forgive me because while I've seen much of your work, I have not seen the telenovela work. So educate me. Did you have a- I don't think you're missing anything. What was the kind? Like, was there a type of character you were doing in those two,

you said there were two particular? I did two of them. One of them I was the lead. I was like the good guy, you know, because they had three archa-tipical, archetypes. Yeah, archetypes of characters in telenovelas. novel is the good guy. Yep.

Usually a rich guy. There is the good girl, which is usually a poor girl, who falls in love with the rich man. And there is the bad guy who sometimes it's funny. It's a funny character, but he really wants to destroy the life of those beautiful people. That sounds like a fun job.

So you had... It's like... Yeah, so I did the nice guy in one. Yeah. So I did the nice guy in one. one of them and the other one I played the bad guy. So I think I did what I had to do there. And also, it takes you like, it's great, man.

I mean, it's such a great exercise. And I was feeling that I was walking in something that was very Brazilian, you know, like Brazilian actors, they kind of have to go through telenovelist thing. Because it's like you learn, you shoot like, I kid you not, man, you should, if you have a main role in a catalogue, you shoot like a hundred, like 20, 25 scenes per day, you know, and you have to memorize. You're literally memorizing it? And that's not.

We kind of know, we memorize all the Mexican, Mexican actors. They use the thing. The year, the year thing. Brazilians don't. They just memorize. They go back home and they memorize their lines and they wake up in the other day. And your life is just like basically that. You must be a godsend to a director or a rewriter on set.

Like they give you three pages of dialogue. You're like, oh, that's a cinch. I can do that. Oh, that's great. Easy. You know, yeah, that's what I'm talking about. After doing a telenovel, like to go to make a film where you shoot like one scene per day sometimes. It's amazing.

It's great. It's just like you learn. I feel like like sometimes I draw a parallel with Brazilian soccer football soccer players. but these kids that grew up in the favelas and they play in like these fields with mud and shit and then they bring them to play like in a beer or the stadium in England they go like fuck yeah

a lot to cover I want to jump ahead we mentioned a bit of elite squad which I imagine is a big leap for you and I would imagine leads to new exciting opportunities I mean I don't know if that's like when when you know coming to the state started to emerge as an opportunity to start to maybe even get in rooms for stuff like do you do you remember the period of time when you came to the states and

and what kind of stuff you were going up for yeah I remember because in the lead squad won the golden bear in Berlin like surprisingly because it was being accused it was being accused of being a far right film and the and the the the president of the the jury was Costa Gravas right and then we received the that a word from the biggest left, the biggest left wing. That'll legitimize you. Yeah, totally. Yeah.

So we were like, okay, that was good. And then, but, and surprisingly, I think maybe because of Berlin, people in Hollywood, not like, like, regular movie govers, but like producers, directors, like cast directors, they were seeing it. They became aware of the lead squad. And I started to get, like, phone calls from. from agents and things like, like, hey, man, have you ever thought about having an agent here? And I never, I didn't really consider that like a serious conversation, you know, it was like,

this doesn't seem. Was it, was it, was it, was it, I can't imagine them actually leaping to that or that, or that if I get opportunities, they're going to be the worst stereotypical roles that you could possibly imagine or a little bit of both. There was that. Exactly. And there was also like, yeah, you should come here. I should go there and what should I do?

You know, like, it was a little, like, too far away from my, I didn't. But then in 2010, I met this guy who I worked with for, for a long, for almost 10 years. And he was, and his wife back then was a Brazilian. And somehow he was like, you have to come here, you know. And there was a moment that I wasn't doing it. It was like, I'm going to go there. So he introduced me to, it was in 2010. and introduced me to cast directors, you know, the whole general thing.

You know, I remember we were driving his car and he was going from one meeting to the water bottle tour, as they say, yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I did that. And I was like, oh, that was, and people were, I was very surprised how aware people were of elite squad. You know, they were like, oh, man, and it was like, whoa, they really knew the movie. and seemed excited to talk to me. I was like, okay, that's like so. And then after that, I did Elysium because Neil Blancamp was a fan of a lead squad.

And he, yeah, and he asked me to audition for it. I did like a self-tape thing in Rio sent it to him. And it was a great experience. And that was my first, that was in 2013 or 12. And not so far after that is obviously the next giant leap, which is Narcos, of course, and Escobar. And then I did Narcos. But Narcos was different because Narcos came from the director of elite squad. Right.

You know, it was familiar. It was more like, yeah. Working with people you knew. But it was also a leap in that like, you know, atypical for a lot of your stuff. You've talked a little bit about like kind of, you know, you're playing versions of yourself in a lot of roles and like, you know, connecting, like, where do I connect? And something like Escobar is a huge leap in so many different ways.

The famous stories of this, like the guy on my screen right now does not look like who you play. No, thank God. In Narcos, I mean, how much pride in retrospect, it must have been some work putting on the weight, learning the language, all of it. But 10 years later, looking back,

that's a source of pride, I would imagine. Yeah, it is. Because it was like, this was crazy. because, like, they, this director, Josep Adela, who is a good friend of mine, and, you know, we did a lead squad and we did Narcos together. So we became, you know, very, very good friends. And he's kind of crazy. And he was like, also like a Brazilian guy who wasn't aware of the Hollywood system.

He didn't care. So it's like, okay, I'm going to, they invited him to direct Narcosz. And he was like, okay, I'm going to, Wagner, you're going to play Pauloscarbar. I'm going to, okay, I'll do it. Yeah, sure. And I was excited about it. But Netflix didn't even know that he was considering me. It was like came from his crazy mind.

He invited me and I was like, fuck, now I have to learn Spanish because I don't speak the language. So I flew myself. I paid for a ticket, booked myself in a university in Medellee in Colombia. I started to learn Spanish. I was eating like crazy and gaining weight. And Netflix didn't even know. Now, did you know that Netflix didn't know at that point? No, I thought that everything was.

was okay. At what point do you find out and how much do you lose your shake? You know, I found out when I was imagining, and they were scouting there. And Jose said, okay, I'm going to introduce you to Eric Newman, the producer. And Chris Brancato back then was the showrunner and the writer. And I could see the faces of the guys when they met me. They were like, what? Is this guy?

they were like, wait, I didn't know. So this guy is going to play Paul's score? And that was scary, man. That was like, I was like, he was just, Zed. Like, I talked to, but it was, dude. And they were to produce Netflix itself. And back then, but let's remember that back then, in 2015, 14,

Netflix was known for hiring the talents and leaving them alone. Right. Venture goes off and does house a card's what he wants. They were just like, hire you and they will go like, you know, do your thing. You don't want to interfere with your work. It was, it was, that's how it worked back then. So I think that, again, I think it was lucky because if it was today, that would never happen. That would never happen.

It's lucky, but it's also what you did with it. Brazilian playing in a Colombia, Brazilian playing the Colombian wouldn't have happened as well, right? Did you and Pedro click? Are you guys still in touch? Yeah, yeah, I love him. And my thing with Pedro is like, I know, I only know Pedro socially because we never got to work together. Like, he was the cop. And I was the bad guy.

He was chasing me and we never really, I never had a scene with Peter. But we were going out in Bogota and he was just adorable to hang out with. He's probably a good hang. From my limited experience of being around him. He's so very. funny and and and and and and nice and but i i i never worked with peter so that's one one wild karaoke night any story anything popped in mind as a fun night with pedro that you can tell i like i can't tell those things man these aren't like what what happens in colombes stays in

no i'm kidding that's the old we we were going out and uh you know we had we have friends in common And yeah, I don't talk to Britain. It's like sometimes he was very, when I moved to the, to the U.S., he was super important because he wrote me. I asked him to write me in those letters, you know, to the immigration. So they wouldn't, you know. Back then there was no eyes. It was easier. But, you know, even though, even though it was like, I was trying to come here and work here.

And I asked Peter to write a letter saying that I was a good. human being and and well so add that to the list of Pedro Pascal accomplishments getting you to be he did that to me yeah yes he made him he really helped me out with that so um again we're not able to cover everything but i want to mention civil war which i think is just a remarkable piece of work and clearly like you found kind of a kind of a kind of a kind of a kind of a kind of a kind of kind of a kind of a kind of hindrance i would imagine in alex garland who's who's a guy that like knows how to create like you know engrossing powerful entertainment but also of great substance and worth And that film, I think, is really going to stand the test of time.

I was just rewatching. I mean, that scene with Jesse Plymins is an all timer to see. And honestly, Jesse gets major props for that, but watching it again through the prism of talking to you, your fear and everyone's fear in that scene is what makes that scene so damn chilling. Do you remember shooting that sequence in particular? Oh, my God. That scene was, it took us like an entire day, you know, like again,

And like at me, like doing 20 days, 20 scenes per day, that scene took the whole day from like 8 a.m. to, I don't know, 6 p.m. With me saying, no, no, don't kill us. And Jesse going, what kind of American are you? I remember that at the end, when we wrapped, I lay down on the grass, this green grass there, I lay down there and cried. And I was just crying because it was just like,

this was too much you know maybe even it moves me right now it was too much you know it feels so starkly chillingly real

so those these people exist like this is not so far off that's what makes that movie so chilling makes that movie so scary and I when I read that script

I remember saying like oh my God I think this is the most timely thing I've ever read in my life yeah And, and, and, and, and, and it still, and it still is. And it's, it's becoming more and more timely, actually, the film.

I have, I only saw the film when we released it. I, I might revisit it to check it out again. It's, I think it's a great film. I really like that movie. Truly. So, I mean, obviously, your heart lies in these films that work on a number of levels. That, of course, they entertain it to some degree, but they also provoke thought and reflect our life and times, which is my favorite kind of entertainment as well. I mean, is there,

at this point in your career with like, you've had a lot of great successes and opportunities I would imagine are better than ever, I would hope. I mean, is there, you know, is there a temptation to find that balance of like, you know, you've certainly, you've done some of the big Hollywood stuff. And I would imagine those opportunities come of to meet with the marvels and the Star Wars and you're doing the Star Wars voice, I know. But like, is there an appetite to kind of be in the center of pop culture in that way and contribute? Yeah, for sure. But I would never be able to do something that I don't truly believe or that I don't think,

you know, that I think it's bullshit, you know, I just, I would just be miserable. But I think I tend to see meaning in everything, you know, and to see politics in, I think, I did pushing boots. And I love that film, you know, and I think it's such a meaningful, meaningful, um, and I think it's such a meaningful, a philosophical film about so many beautiful things. And yeah, of course, I mean, but listen, what I'm going to do after this whole thing here, I'm going to do this independent film in Brazil with this Argentinian director called Lysandro Alonso. Right after that, I'm doing my play.

Right. Later I wrote with the director, I'm going to tour with the play in theater festivals, in Europe. And after that, I'm going to direct my film, my second feature film, which is, of course, a very independent film as well. So, yes, to answer your question, yes, but I, but I, you know, like this, my year, the rest of my year, it's exactly how it was going to be like a year ago. Is the directing effort, is that still last night at the lobster?

And is that still, is that Lizzie Moss and Brian Tyler Henry? two people you know quite well. I'm a big fan of both. Lizzie, I know pretty well. She's the best. She's just the best. She's just the best. And it's so good to work with her. You know, it's just, it's amazing how you work. It's when you work with such a nice human being, that is such a great actress as well, you know, like, I love that. I love, I love with Lizzie. It was like, we were doing the scenes and, you know, like, I love to work with actress, but they came to action and game on and anything can happen, you know, and you can just trust that whatever you go, she's going to be there or the app, it's like, it's so good.

Brian is the same. Oh, Brian's electric on screen. Yeah. Same thing. And I was like, there's no, yeah, I like just, this is the thing that I love most about what we do is like when it's like just to look at, look at the other guy's eyes and like, Let's go. And that must have been invaluable.

We don't have time to go deep on dope thief. That doesn't happen all the time, you know? But people should look up the circumstances of dope thief in that, like, this guy, you're looking at right here, had to jump in, like, with, like, no time whatsoever and kick ass. And that's all credit to you, but it's all credit to also Brian of being that screen partner that you can play off of, right? Absolutely. He's the most, I mean, adorable friend.

It's crazy when you become older. I'm going to be 50 this year. And it gets harder to, when I was younger, it was like, I was connecting with everybody, everybody was my friend and everybody was like, you know, and when you're older, like to become friends with someone, it's not, you know, the same thing. And I really cherish my friendship with Brian, Terry Harry. You know, it was, it was such a beautiful connection, you know, and I absolutely adore him. As I adore, I adore Lizzie. And they are going to be there with me not only because they believe in the film and they want to play the characters and they find it, because they want to support me

and I really, you know, they want to be there with me. My first time I'm directing a film in the U.S. and acting and directing, it's like, I really appreciate it. That's friendship. And these are the joys I always say, again, we're literally like almost the exact same age. I'm sticking around and having these relationships bear fruit in different ways

and kind of meet people at different points in their life and career. It's a moving thing to see from all ends. Yeah. So on the, on the, the, the lighter side, although I guess a series starring Darth Mall can't be too light, was it fun to at least dip your tone into the Star Wars universe to do a voice for this new series? Yeah. Yeah, it was very fun. I love doing these things, the voice work thing. It's, it really liberates you to, you know, just, I don't know, you get less. At least when I did boozing booze, So it was something that I was consciously, like, going like, just go there and have fun, you know, because as you're not, it's, you get less self-conscious of, you know, no one is seeing you, is just there. So just, and you go back to what I think is the nature of what we do.

It's to have, to play, to have fun, to, you know, to, to not, to, to never forget the, that these should be made with joy. and you've got to be, you know, like the way when you see kids playing, you know. Yeah. Well, I will say when I was sitting nearby you, I was at the sentimental value table near you at Critics' Choice. And I looked over on what you were wearing. And I was like, he's kind of halfway to the Jedi robe right there tonight. This guy would be a kick-ass Jedi. Someone cast this man right now.

Oh, yeah. That was a wide outfit. Yeah, that was, yeah. I was excited about that. That one looks like a, yeah, yeah, I'm now, I'm now working with this amazing stylist, Elida, and she's throwing me like, you know, things that I'm like, oh, is this? Would a 50-year-old man wear this? And she's like, yeah.

Yeah, you can pull it off. And I'm going to, okay, that's good. We any closer to getting you on SNL? Years ago, you said that was a dream one day. Oh, when you still do SNL? Man, I, oh, my God. Are you kidding me? you know, that would be a dream come true.

You know, that's another American, that's another thing, you know, that for me defines American humor, you know, like what's, like, I grew up watching SNL. You know, like, and, and, uh, exactly. And I went to, uh, I did, I was, I did this interview, this talk show. I don't remember which one was it. It was a talk show. Is it Seth Myers? I think it was Seth.

It's shot in there, right? So they took me, when I was doing set miles, they took me to the stage where they record SNL. So I got to see the stage of that place where the monologue is it. Where the band's play, you know, and all the monologues takes place. And I was like, man, that's really cool. So absolutely, yes. We're going to end with this.

Happy Second Feudence. Always ends with our profoundly random questions. Wagner, are you a dog or a cat person? Dog. But? Yeah, but there's a butt. I'm totally a dog person. But we have a dog and a cat.

But the cat arrived like a year ago only. So I was getting used to the cat. I wasn't, the cat was like, the cat and I were like, you know, circling each other. Yeah. But the other day, I was very, I was very, you know, I wasn't in a, I was a little sad. And I lay down. on my sofa and the cat just walked.

Oh. And just put the paws on my chest and stay there doing like that kind of thing. Dude, that was so good. You know, that really sort of like, that sort of reorganized my feelings. It was a very interesting. We had a moment, the cat. Yeah. It sounds like it.

I feel like I'm interfering just now, just even hearing it. It was an intimate. We had the beautiful. So now I'm starting to, you know, understand the kid. But of course, I'm a dog. I'm a dog guy. Dogs, they show affection. They show you love.

They, you know, they make a point in being saying, like, we are, I'm your friend. You know, like that. Do you collect anything? No. Not really. Okay, that's okay. Do you have a thing? Yeah.

Growing up, did you have a favorite video game? Favorite video game of all time? Yeah. River Raid. I don't remember it, but okay. You're old enough to remember this one. I should know it. Okay, okay.

River Raid. It was like, I had an Atari. Right. And I played that one. Like you go with an airplane and you have to put fuel and destroy little things. Or Pac-Man. Pac-Man was great. Classic.

What's the wallpaper on your phone? It's a picture of my sons, but they are, you know, all like sort of like, it's kind of cool and funky and they now put that yellow they customize it for you so it's looking it's looking nice not like it yeah it changed changed i have different photos and they go circulate and changing right now is the three boys who's the last actor you were mistaken for uh uh one of my best friends is is a is an amazing actor that came from salvador to Rio with me to do that play. It's a guy called Lazaro Hamish.

And we are so close and we are so, you know, people identify us sometimes as a, you know, and sometimes they call me Lazaro, you know. And it's crazy because this is a black dude with a big, with a big, a, uh, uh, uh, uh, had a hair. Yeah, yeah. And I love when they do that because it's like,

it's not about how we look like. It's how close. we are and how it's really sweet what's the worst noted director has ever given you Stephen Daldry I did this film with him called trash in Brazil and I loved him and I think he's crazy and amazing and really loved him but we were doing the scene and he came to me and he was like it really took him like 30 seconds going like um um um do it again It's the buildup. It's the...

I couldn't stop laughing. I was like, okay, man, I'll do it again. Because he really tried to say something. He made an effort, but it was like, it's just not good. At the end of the day, just, can we try it again? Can we just do something else? It's just not good enough. Let's just do it again.

And finally, in the spirit of happy seg infused, who's an actor who always makes you happy. You see them on screen. You're immediately in a better mood. Jack Black. What's your go-to? School of Rock? Just any anything and everything? Oh, school of rock.

It's amazing. And I can't wait to see Anaconda because I've not a good friend of my did at Selton. Selton Melo, who is an actor who is in, who is in, I'm still here. Oh, nice. He plays a role in Anaconda and I really want to see it. A movie that makes you sad. Oh. Rosetta from the Dardan Brothers.

It's such a hard. Or the kid in the bike. Or the Dada Dan brothers. films that make me... They make me sad, but they make me feel, you know, they make me believe in the power of films and movies. And finally, a food that makes you confused.

You don't understand why people would eat that. You can't get behind it. Stumped you. Is there a disgusting American-Americanism? No, I just... There's this this... This pink Japanese sweet that's made with beans.

Oh. They love like the red bean paste and a lot of stuff. But yeah, okay. Beans, bean paste. But it's sweet. Yeah. Anything that that's, also Americans like,

they like sometimes, I was when I was, I was a exchange student. I got a scholarship to study English here and when I was 15. And I was living in South of Florida, Florida, for a house. Ultra shock.

imagine. Yeah, it was great. And then, but the family, they wanted to please me as a Brazilian and they, and they cooked beans, but they cook it. Not the beans you knew. Yeah. Dude, with sugar, you know, so it was like, that's the kind of combination that I don't get. Right. You know, beans and sugar. Well, that's the American way. When in doubt, add sugar to anything. Lucky to America. But to beans. That's a damn. I don't understand. All right. Our next conversation, I want to dig into your exchange student, uh, Sarasota. That feels like a conversation in and of itself. Wagner, thank you so much for the time today.

That's like that too, Josh, yeah. This has been a true pleasure. I'm sure folks that listen or watch this podcast have seen it by now, but give it another look because this is one of the exceptional pieces of work of the last year and beyond the secret agent. Have fun at the end of this long, exciting road. Enjoy yourself at the Oscars, and best of luck, man. Thank you, Tinkina.

See you around. See you around. And so ends another. addition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. Oh, please, not that music.

That music gives me nightmares from my childhood. Could we get something a little bit lighter? Some lighter music here. Are you a fan of true crime TV shows? And what about Unsolved Mysteries, the show that jumped started all of our love of true crime? I'm Ellen Marsh. And I'm Joey Taranto. And we host I Think Not, a true crime comedy podcast covering some of the wildest stories

from your favorite true crime campy TV shows all the way to Unsolved Mysteries. Baby, you will laugh, you will cry. You'll think about true crime in a whole new way. And you'll also ask yourself, who gave these people mics? New episodes of I Think Not are released every Wednesday with bonus episodes out every Thursday on Patreon. And every Monday you can listen to our True Crime Runday. where we go over the top true crime headlines of the week. So come and join us wherever you listen to your podcast.