Happy Sad Confused - Will Arnett

Episode Date: June 21, 2017

Despite an arbitrary underlying tension with Josh that’s been festering for years, Will Arnett is the delightful guest on this week’s episode of “Happy Sad Confused.” In truth, Will and Josh get along famously, but what’s life without a designated nemesis, even if it’s all in good fun? Of course, every self-respecting comedy nerd became obsessed with Arnett when he appeared on ‘Arrested Development,’ but in this conversation he reveals that his comedy career was something of an accident. And now he’s balancing a little drama with his comedy in the second season of his Netflix show, ‘Flaked.’ This wide-ranging chat also reveals Arnett’s hatred of duplicity, a possible alternate personality named Lewis, and how Jennifer Aniston almost died while making his new version of ‘The Gong Show.’ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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This week on Happy Sad Confused, Will Ornett on Arnett on Arrested Development, Plaked and Being My Mortal Enemy. That's not you, Sammy. See, you thought you were my mortal enemy. That's why I always like when he's around. I feel better. Hey, guys. My name's Josh.

That's Sammy. Hi. We do the little intro for this fun old podcast where I get to talk to silly smart people like Will Arnette. This is, I love Will Arnett. What do you love him from? What's your basis? Is it arrested? Arrested.

Yeah. Everyone, like no one frankly knew who Will Ornette was. I think he would admit to that until really arrested. Arrested in 30 Rock. I love him in 30 Rock. He was great. Yeah. Yeah, he's one of these people that just makes me laugh.

He's just like a naturally, like his way is very dry and. I mean, I have a question. Yes. And I think the listeners will probably wonder. Yeah, you're speaking on behalf of the. speaking on behalf of the other side. Where does, you guys have a very contentious relationship. Right.

Where did that, how did that happen? So to clarify, it's not based in reality. No, no. We actually, we love each other deeply on a profound level. Every time you interview him, it just, he really, it's like. It's the last years, I don't, and I truly don't remember where it began, we, I think, arbitrarily decided that there was a past transgression that we were angry at each other for. To the point where we would like, I've run into him on the streets of New York and basically had an exchange like, fuck you, you know what you did.

And then like, like, keep walking. But like, what if he really thinks you did something? Well, having had him on the podcast, I can tell you. I think we're okay. But, hey, if you're going to have. But you guys have this like longstanding bit. I think it's fun to have. Like, look, let's stretch us out for decades.

Yeah, let's do it. want someone that I can build, like, a true threat. Yeah, but he always, like, walks in the room and sees you, and he's like, oh. It's totally true. Hey, I'll take it. I'll take it from the likes of Will or Nett. He has a lot going on, as always. He has season two of Flaked, which is on Netflix right now. Really, his baby. He co-wrote, I believe, every episode. He's an executive producer on it. And it is a very, it's an interesting, you know, it's comedic, but it's not like the out-and-out comedies. that you associate with Will Arnett. And, again, I say this often, I feel like on the podcast, but I always appreciate when actors and filmmakers are willing to take chances and push their passion projects, and this certainly is one.

So support flaked on Netflix. It's now in season two. He also has the gong show. Do you know what the gong show up here? Do you know what the gong show is, Sammy? It's way before your time. No. Well, I know it now because I've seen all the commercials for it.

And it's like, oh, the big British host is going to be on it. And I'm like, I don't know. I am. Do you not know who the host? I didn't know him. Wait, wait, you literally don't know who that host is?

I literally didn't know who that man was. This is hysterical. This is hysterical. I have no idea who that was. I did to look him up. Wait, wait. I saw Will Arnette and I was like, oh, that looks good. But wait, you don't, you don't know that the host of the, is a character that Mike Myers is

playing? No. Okay, I just blew Sammy's brain. I think it's Tommy Maitland, I think, is like, well, what's scary is you said you looked him up, which is really like, you're Googling. skills suck. And I never saw anything about. I love that so much.

Oh, sweet innocent, Sammy. Why is Mike Myers doing that? Mike Myers is doing a full-on new character. The interesting thing, we actually don't, we don't, we don't, yeah. Oh, my God. I have to go. The promo, it's interesting because the promo material is about the show and even like talking to Will, we didn't really talk a lot about the conversation.

show in this conversation? I'm freaking out right now. But they don't talk about it. They don't like acknowledge that it's Mike Myers, but it's Mike Myers. Are you sure? I'm 190,000 percent sure. Yes. What if it's Tom Cruise?

Yeah, I mean, a little bit of that Tropic Thunder character in there. Guys, we got to watch the gong show. So, okay. So, yeah, so the gong show. And by the way, the gong show, which the history. Holy shit. The gong show was a show, I think back in the seven. It was a weird kind of variety show.

Chuck Barris, who later they did that movie about him. George Clooney did The Confessions of a Dangerous Mind. I was like, oh, they brought the original host back from the old show. She's not hearing anything I'm saying because she's still in her. I'm reeling. Yes, yes, yes, the 70s. Right. Anyway, so it's a variety show hosted by a character that Mike Myers has created.

Holy shit. Okay. So look forward to that. I think that's premiering, I want to say June 22nd. Does Will Arnette know? I hope so I'll check it with him Did people know?

Okay Sammy Okay All right This is going to be so good This interview is going to be so good And yes Of course we talk a bunch about Arrested Development

How can you not One of the Classics of our time Truly And yeah They're going to do a season five Which I'm very excited for I know season four

Had its kind of like divisive kind of reactions I still loved it Yes By the nature of it It was a different kind of a feel but those characters, those actors are genius in the writing, everything. So I'm very excited that they're getting the band back together.

Very excited. So yes, while Sammy lies on the floor collecting herself, enjoy this conversation with Will Arnett. Go check out Flaked. And yes, the gong show hosted by a guy that's played by Mike Myers. You just spoiled it for everyone. Well, I think it's an incentive. Now people are going to be curious to check.

it out. I'm curious. I'd like people to let us know if they knew that or not. Okay. Actually, don't. Tweet at me, Joshua Horowitz. I never say this stuff, too. That's a good reminder. Tweet at me, let me know what you're enjoying, who you want to hear on the show. And yes, rate, review, subscribe. Tell your friends, guys. Come on. Spread the good word of happy, set confused. Those reviews do matter. So your support is appreciated. And now the main event, Mr. Will Arnette. Played by Will or not. Not played by I'm like, let's just see it out. Okay, that was my next question.

Remember back in the day when Midtown Manhattan really meant something? It doesn't mean as much anymore. We're joined by Will Arnett, who's talking about the importance of, what are you saying? Midtown Manhattan. Right. When people would say, yeah, and they have offices in Midtown Manhattan, you'd be like, oh, this is quite an operation they have. Now you're like, great. Who gives a rat's ass?

It was Trump. This is, he's soiled. I've noticed, I've noticed that you've become, as have I, frankly, on social media since the election, I've been, I've become much more politically active. Have you as well? Have you been become more engaged? I guess so. My stuff is more, it's less, I try less to like preach as just to kind of, and more point out the hypocrisy and some of the absurdity of what we're living in truly absurd times. You know, I was just listening. to that Comey testimony. Yeah, it's happening right now as we tape. Yeah, I was getting that Comey shit. You know what I'm saying? Testifying. Do you want to just watch it together and we can just comment on it live? I'm going to get it. Yo, man, I just got that tattoo. Coimie for life.

But, and they were talking about the idea that that Comey, he confirmed in no uncertain terms that the Russians had indeed tried to compromise our elections in 2016. It was something that everybody kind of knew and or suspected, but he actually said it in a very sort of official way.

And yet everybody was much more concerned about all this Trump stuff, as we all are, because it's very important. And one of the senators went back and said, did the president ask any questions about that? Like, did he fall up and say, what can we do to stop this? The Russians have it? attempted. Quick follow-up.

Yeah. I've attempted to influence our elections to it, and they've attacked all these. And he said, no. Nah, didn't come up. Nah. Wasn't interested. He didn't fucking care. All he cared about was whether or not he was under investigation. So, it feels

like it's incumbent upon me to just kind of shed a little bit of light on that if I can. I agree. And then I'll also put out a lot of, like, photos of Trump, like Dr. photos and stuff where he'd just to make him look even more foolish, which is hard. It's not hard.

And I think it brings us a little small degree of joy just knowing like most, you know, presidents in the past, A, wouldn't have the time or interested in looking at that stuff and B, it wouldn't bother them. But we know that kind of stuff does bother him. So it kind of, you know what, maybe it is worth putting up a doctor shitty photo of him. It is. Because he might actually see it. I know.

And make him feel worse about himself. That's it. And that's the thing. I want him to, there's that off chance that he'll take a look at it. And it'll enrage him. Basically, we're just hoping that he blocks you, which is inevitable. We'll see. Man can dream.

I don't know, man. Thank you. I appreciate the compliment. I don't know if it'll ever happen. There was no formal introduction, but it's a pleasure to have you in the podcast studio, especially considering I feel like any, you know, any hero is only as good as their villain, their greatest mortal enemy. And you, as we know, you're my great mortal.

I'm a hero. No, no, no, no, no, no. You're in my territory now, man. Oh, that's true. Yeah, I don't know how it started. We began like a rivalry like a year or so ago where we started to decide we hated each other. I remember it was at Comic-Con. It wasn't.

It was before Comic-Con. You're right, it was before Comic-Con. So that's why we are... You don't... You hate me so much. You don't even remember why you hate me. And that's the key. That's because I know that that will enrage you.

And so I'm not even giving it, you know, any... I'm not giving it the attention that you think it requires. In your past, have you ever had an actual mortal enemy? Have you ever had a rival? Have you ever had somebody that you felt like that guy? I don't know if I've ever had. I have had a few people over the years. Yes, I've had a couple of people whom I did not like a lot.

What pisses you off? Is there a common characteristic in the people that? Yes, it's that they're sort of duplicitous and liars. and and it's actually this is not this is not a way for me to plug my show on Netflix but that's kind of what led me to to want to create the show was

there were a couple people who I was it came to sort of as a real shock to me I guess that I discovered that they weren't who I thought they were and I thought wow and they I realized how much energy they spent kind of keeping all these plates spinning to create this persona for themselves

that everybody saw and and i decided that's a that's so uh um it takes a lot and so i kind of the character of chip was the first thing that i ever sort of wrote uh with regards to flake and i just i remember i was flying to london and uh i just started um kind of sketching out this character based on this, based on a couple people whom I was not necessarily rivals with, but whom I had sort of grown to have a... Resented the hypocrisy of what they stood for. Yeah, and, you know, so, and that's what, that's how the show started. And I started realizing, I started looking at people and saying, including myself, by the way,

the face that we show the world and the face that we look at in the mirror when we'll brush our teeth at night or take them out and have them brushed for me as is in the case with me but that's a different podcast that's for a different show

we'll get into that your grooming techniques and I want to hear everything I had all my teeth knocked out four years ago and they're all false I also admire but I have to say this is really apropos of nothing but just looking at you

and your wonderful comfort with chest hair that I don't have. Yeah. Well, I don't have a ton of it. Yeah. Does it just stop right there? Because you're about three buttons down. Yeah.

Well, yeah, because that was the only place when I taped it on, like, glued it. It's part of the dental team. They also do chest hair. It's amazing. That's good. No, yeah, yeah. I run hot. This is a true story.

Yeah. I run hot. So I'm, I, I, I, I will, I'll, what's that, schvitz? I don't know what that is. You're sweating. You sweat, that's all. I'm a Jew. Hi.

Oh, oh. Have you ever met one of us? Is that, is that, Yiddish? You know what? That's offensive. That's not offensive. I just don't know if you've ever met a Jew. I live, I've lived in New York since 1990.

Oh, New York's all Jews. That's what it, that's what a non-Jew would say. Listen, I had an office in Midtown Manhattan. The center of it all. So you sweat. So you sweat. I sweat a lot. Yeah, I do schvitz.

And I, I, so I find my, you know, I don't wear socks. You don't. Look at that. I rarely wear a socks. Can I do this? Yeah, of course. You're putting your feet on the table or in front of me. Not a rude thing at all.

Is it a table or is it a wheel that collects cables from the bottom of the ocean? I mean, you know what? You should have seen a way. I used to do the podcast in my shitty little office, so at least look, this is like professional. We've got like engineers, producers, sound things on the wall and microphones. Yeah, sound things. Hold up with all the tech talk, man. You taught me some mic technique already.

I got my lawyer here with me, by the way. He's not your lawyer. That's not a true thing. Okay. Well, in my mind. So we were talking about, okay, the public and the fake. faces that we show the world. Is that endemic? I mean, it's for all of us, I have that to a degree, but is it more tied to your sordid industry than most, you think?

It can be for sure. You know, it's funny. It's one of those questions you get that I seem to get, especially from people I grew up with or friends that I had who aren't in the biz, in the biz history, as I call it. And they'll say, what's so-and-so like? You know, you get that all the time. And you've met, and you interview lots of people, and I'm sure people say, what's so-and-so really like? And there are times when you go, oh, yeah, that person's terrible. That's, they're a terrible person. Really? Oh, yeah, yeah.

I mean, there are a couple people who are like, oh, yeah, yeah, they're a terrible person. And a lot of people know that, and in the public adore them. You know, and their persona is the opposite. And that's always interesting. But, you know, to tell you the truth, as I started working on the show, and I started sort of writing the first season with my partner, Mark Chappell, aka Chappie, which you get it, why, because his name's Chappell. I thought it was a reference to the movie, the classic movie. Chappie. Jabby Love Lake.

But, by the way, I love you just did that. I want to get that. When that movie came out, he was so exhausted by us, just leaving messages going, jazz. Happy. It's the new Jar Jar Big some more time. So he, as we started writing this character, I started writing, I started identifying with some of the things that, you know, characteristics that Chip had and I was like, well, maybe I'm guilty of that too.

And you start, you know, none of us is perfect. Certainly I'm not. And I know for a fact you're not. I know where you're going. Come on. Well. So when you started to have to, for instance, become like a true. truly public person and start to do the talk shows and publicity and stuff, did you find that

was that something that either you thought about consciously? Like, I have to portray myself a certain way. Do you have to create a, or was it just sort of like, what you see is what you get? Yeah, no, I've been much more of what you see is what you get kind of person. You know, there are only sort of times, I think, where I was reserved was like the first time I did Letterman because I was so nervous and in awe of him, one of my idols. And, and, and I mean, like driving idols because you've got so many speeding tickets. But I, for the most part, I try to keep it, I've always tried to kind of keep it pretty real. Yeah.

Or on a real tip as I'm. Is that what people say? No, I'm loath to say that. You've got a, I'm curious actually, like for something like flaked, because in watching it, it's not the kind of thing that I'm guessing that would have been offered to you. Like how much of it was like, you talk a little bit about why you created it. and what you were kind of the issues you were wrestling with, you and chappie. Sorry, I'm not going to be able to do it, not do that. But how much of it was also like, oh, I'm going to create something that wouldn't come to me.

I need to create material. If I want to do different kinds of things, people see me a certain way. I'm going to need to create my own material. Yeah, that was a big part as well, for sure. It's a lot closer to the kind of stuff that I think that I originally wanted to do. do when I started as a younger actor. I didn't start in comedy, in sketch or stand-up or any kind of comedy. And I wanted to be, I was young enough that I thought that I wanted people to take me seriously. So I gave a shit about things like that back then. And I think that I wanted

to, doing a show like Flakes, yeah, it was not something, especially coming off, you know, the first thing that the first job I had that got me any kind of notice was the rest of development and then after that I had a few things but it was always within the realm of comedy and I knew that I wanted to do something a little different and I wanted to do

a show also the kind of show that I would like that was just kind of dry that we're not trying to be too cool for school and we're not trying to say hey look these guys live this life isn't it rad we're trying to say it's kind of absurd and in season two

You know, we took a lot of hits season one. You know, people were saying that we were glorifying these older dudes, dating younger girls and stuff. We're like, no, no, no, just pair with us. It's slow, but that's the vibe out there. We're going to take them all apart. And that's, we're not saying it's cool. We're just saying that that's, this actually exists. That's a thing.

Yeah, that's a thing. And I wanted to do a show that wasn't necessarily a comedy or a drama or it's not a, I'm not trying to compete with anybody else. I'm trying to just, I'm not trying to create my own genre. I'm just trying to be genreless. Right. So here's the chicken or the egg question. Did a midlife crisis spawn flaked, or did flake spawn a midlife crisis? Wait, I didn't know why I was having a midlife crisis.

Oh, sorry. Sorry. No, I mean, I'm not going to delve, like, you know, heavily into the season one stuff, but obviously you've talked a little bit about sort of like how, you know, some issues did come up at the course of the season one. For sure. And I don't know. You know, it's a funny one.

I'm not sure exactly which came first. I think I probably wasn't as prepared as I should have been for what kind of an impact it would have on me emotionally doing something like this that was so close. Look, it's not my story per se, but there were a lot of things that were in there that came from me. And I think that it probably,

that combined with a lot of different things, sort of led inevitably to where I, you know, making some decisions that I ultimately wish I had done differently. So what are the mechanism, how do you, when you go into season two, you obviously don't want to go down that road again. So what did you do to kind of... I think it was, well, you know, I was pretty honest about it, my situation. And I was really only, you know, I was honest about it in a public way, in a way that

I'm not, generally I don't like to get into that aspect of my life. too deeply in a public way there are certain things that I think that can remain private in this world which is I know odd how dare you we own you well exactly we got to you show a picture of people share a picture of like every meal every cup of coffee that they're having so fucking weird when you go to a coffee place or something you see people and they get their coffee and the first thing they do is they snap a picture and it's like I who gives a shit I want to and knock the coffee out of their hand

and take their phone and throw it in the fucking river. Stop it! Lewis, I will fucking kill you if you take a picture. Lewis is with me. He's not my lawyer, you're right. No, that's your alternate personality.

There's nobody else in the room. There's nobody here, Will. It's literally just us. I'm not going to holler and tell him it's dinner. But but I think that, but I think that I learned a lot and like anything in life

it either as my son said to me the other day what doesn't kill you makes you stronger he likes, he's embarrassed to admit he likes that Kelly Clarkson song it's really cute but it's true and so I think I learned

a lot in Chappie and I were talking about we knew that season two that Chip needed to go kind of even further towards his bottom, but we knew that he was going to, ultimately, we needed him to kind of start looking for the daylight. Totally. And that was important.

And I think that this season is also a little, there are some heavy moments, but it's also lighter in a lot of other ways. There are a lot more laughs and stuff. And I was just kind of more prepared for it. Sure. I think I just got probably lazy and less diligent in kind of understanding my own shortcomings. I know that you know I had a lot of shortcomings. If I'd asked you, you would have been like...

When people ask me what Will Arnett's like to go back to, you're like... It's just a list of shortcomings. I've prepared this list. Take a look and just sit in awe that he's able to function day to day. You have a lot going on. You have flaked. You have the gong show. That's kind of like a long way of saying like, you got it going on.

No, no. Is that what you're trying to? You got it going on, Billy Arnett. Does that me call you Bill, Billy? No, yes, I actually do have a few friends. Really? Yeah. Okay.

Will. My real friends call me my real friends, but a lot of my close friends. The ones I care about, the ones I value. My close and family call me Willie. Really? Yeah. Okay. Okay.

I'll stick with Will. Yep. I don't think we're there yet. We're almost back at William. Mr. Arnett. But you've got a lot going on. Sure. You have a couple shows.

You've had an app for God's sakes. You're like a Kardashian. You have like, you're a brand. Thank you. Thank you. You're like a Trump. Oh, thanks. My point is, you're more than just a man.

Yes. You're a producing behemoth. Boy, were that only true. But it does feel like your ambitions are varied these days. Yeah, I kind of like, I kind of just want to do stuff that seems fun. And I've been saying that for a long time, and then I end up doing a few things that aren't as fun. But I keep, that's kind of the goal. You know, we're during the gong show, and that was something that I thought, hey, that'll be a lot of fun to do.

Just kind of a real check your brain out and have a few laughs, and we got a lot of people to come and do that. And that was a really good time, and we got to produce it. And it was a different, you know, I produced my show, flaked and also BoJack, but this was a different kind of gear. And producing a show like this, a variety show, was very good. very different. And I got to do a lot of hands-on producing, which was interesting. Yeah. Well, it's a test, I'm very curious to check it out just by even just the people you brought in. I mean, it's not like Zach Alfanakis is going to show up on like America's got talent. Yeah. You know, it's like this sounds interesting. No, yeah. We got so many great

fun people that you would like and or do like and Fred Armisen and Will Forte and Sandberg and Maya Rudolph and Liz Banks and I don't know if I'm allowed to say. And Jack, well, Jack Black, yeah, I thought I already said Jack. No, but Jack, Jack is hilarious. Jack almost killed Jen Aniston. I don't know if I'm allowed to mention her, but Jack almost killed Jen. Oh, that's what we look forward to. Yeah, with the mallet.

And I said to Jen right after, I said, listen, obviously we all care about you and love you. But if you were to die on this show, that would be amazing for me. So just keep that in mind. There are five other friends. I mean, Courtney's here. And, you know. So what did you want to be when you grew up? If I had talked to you for some reason, if I'm talking to a seven-year-old, what was the dream or even a little waiter as a teenager?

I think as a seven-year-old, I probably wanted to be the starting goaltender for the Toronto Maple Leafs hockey team. Sure. Yeah. That was my goal back then. I think that when I was I think when I was 10 or 11 I thought the world was going to end That was a weird phase for me

Oh, it's come full circle, here we are again I went to this whole apocalyptic phase And it was just very Was that the nuclear arms race? Was that tied to anything? Yeah, it was just like 1981 and, you know, Reagan was shot And I just thought, you know what, this is forget it

It was the Berlin Wall and, you know, I just didn't, I just didn't see an end to the Iron Curtain, you know. Luckily now we live in optimistic times. Of course we do. But, you know, these were dangerous trying to figure out a way to shoehorn in the phrase the Benelux countries, but I couldn't. Well, you just did. Thank you. In a very obvious, odd way.

But I think that once I was about 12 or 13, I did my first play and I thought, oh, this would be fun. I don't know if I ever really thought it that. age that I would be able to do this as a profession. Yeah. I probably thought that I was going to end up living under a bridge. I got the feeling that my parents thought the same thing. Oh, it's nice to have that kind of confidence at home. And then, you know, it wasn't until I was about 19 or 20 that I decided that I was going to come here and I moved here to New York when I was 20. And I didn't know anybody and I was going to go and take acting at Lee Strasbourg.

And I couldn't, I don't know. I just thought at that point I was like I got nowhere else to go right eggs are all firmly in one basket it's better work you know now there's I bought a Ferrari did you really yeah because I just thought you know what I'm like what commercial money or something okay sorry well okay here's something you probably don't want to talk about but I but I did not know this about you when I was reading up on you straight sorry okay I won the office pool great but wait were you married to Penelope Ann Miller? It's funny that you should mention it.

I'm guessing you get Wikipedia. Yeah. Yeah. I was. Briefly. Briefly. Can I talk about that? Well, I mean, I don't need the dirty details, but it's just, it's a, here's what

that was curious to me. I was a very young man. Like, because you didn't have a sense of way a career going in any way, and she did. Like, I mean, it's like I had a crush on Penelperian Miller when I was young, and she had just done, like, Carlito's way in that time from. frame, which I loved. And how did you guys even meet? Through mutual friends and at Naked Angels, which was a theater company back in the 90s in New York, which was amazing.

And a lot of amazing actors came out of there and directors, including, you know, Kenny Lonergan and Matthew Broderick and Sir Jessica Parker and Rob Morrow and the list goes on, incredible people. And so we had a bunch of mutual friends. and it's weird the night we met I was at a dinner how did it happen it was an after Robbie Bates John Robin Bates who I've known for years

and he's a wonderful playwright and writer and an amazing guy had just had a new play open gosh I'm trying to think and that there was a dinner at like an after party at Cafe Lou. Do you remember that place on 13th Street? I don't know if it's still there. And I was there with my friend and a couple people there from Naked Angels. And I was also with John Kennedy Jr. Oh my God. Yeah. And I knew him a little bit through a friend of mine. Not

well, but we hung out a few times. And he was a, by my recollection, a really cool dude. Yeah. And so we were kind of hanging out having a little bit of dinner. And then Penelope was there and she just happened to be there and you know she was a good friend of my friend and kind of knew John a little bit too and and you know clicked for a brief time and yeah it was just one of those weird things that just kind of came and went you know crazy yeah so in the years because like it's there were a number of years obviously between that kind of time period in like kind of the mid 90s and arrested which is like the first time that most people saw you

and knew who you were like what percentage of those years were you actually making a decent living? Were you happy? Were you gainfully employed? I know you went through a bunch of pilots, but like was it, when you look back on that like eight, nine years, was that like a happy time, a frustrating time? Was like, or what? It was, it was all those things, you know? It's funny, again, one of the reasons I made the show flaked was because it doesn't reflect those times, but I didn't want to make a show. I've said this a lot. When you wake up at the morning, you don't say today's going to be a comedy day or today's going to be a drama day. It's all a bunch of things happening at once.

And those years were just that. I, you know, 90, that was late 94. That next summer I made a couple indie movies. I remember everything chronologically, for real. I can remember what I did any month of any year. Really? Yeah, starting about the age of like 18 or 19. So June 2001?

June 2001, I was in L.A. in the my sister and her my brother-in-law came for Memorial Day in Los Angeles I was living in Venice and then later that month I came back to New York and we went up to Massachusetts are you like that Mary Lou Henner thing like where it's like you can like I don't know the dates but I know exactly amazing yeah okay so sorry I interrupted your train of thought but like so it's everything obviously it's a long period of time and they're ups and down so yeah did a couple movies and then they you know you think like this one it's going to be the thing that gets me this and then and then Nothing. But through that, I was lucky because I started doing voiceovers and purely by accident. And that allowed me, it afforded me the opportunity to not have to work in a restaurant. A lot of my friends worked in restaurants or had various jobs. I didn't have to do that. And it was great. And I started making real money. Real money. Yeah. Didn't make you less ambitious because now you could kind of like rely on that and like.

I think it did. I do think it did for a couple years. And that is one of the reasons that when I was 30, I decided like, hang on a second, I'm getting complacent. And I've got to, what am I doing? I've been living in New York for 10 years now. I kind of kicked my own ass and said, get your shit together.

It's one of the reasons I sort of sobered up and all that stuff. I wasn't living under, I've never been like, I wasn't living under a bridge or like a degenerate or, you know, or, you know, I didn't go to rehab. It was just more about not doing this stuff I needed to be doing. Yeah. And any kind of life pass you by and just sort of actually engaging in the things you wanted to do. That's what all that stuff does.

It makes me do bad, make bad decisions and just lay on the couch and kind of drink too much and get hung over and just go, fuck it, I'm not going to do anything. I can't, I didn't want to live like that. It's depressing to me. And I realized I was letting everything go by. And, yeah, so it was. But it was a strange time, and it was, you know, New York in my 20s, which is great. And I did have a lot of great memories for sure. But I do, I did feel like I wasn't doing what I needed to be doing.

And were you able to, because I had this conversation with Tony Hale when he came in here as well. And he's been really open about, like, you know, how arrested, again, was like this huge moment. And yet, bizarrely, he wasn't able to really enjoy the moment. I mean, he did enjoy it. He enjoyed the cast. Obviously, it was creative... He loved me. He mentioned that.

He did not mention that. You know, Tony... Tony... But getting caught up in that. Like, were you able to enjoy that? 100%. 100%. You know, it's funny.

Tony's wife worked as a makeup artist on and off at S&L, so I knew her a little bit. And Tony kind of through that when we auditioned for arrested. I was here. he was already there we flew out around the same time I think and I because I was living here and I flew out to audition to have my final test

and then got the show and then the next day basically stayed and we started rehearsing and started shooting and like my life changed that day and I went through it with Tony and Tony and I were staying at the same hotel right around the corner from Fox what was then the

intercontinental or something we walked back and forth to the studio to do our test and stuff and our lives changed I because I think I had been in New York I don't know I can't remember Tony's story exactly how long he had been here before but but I'd been you know I've been living in New York for 13 years at that point on and off you know between New York and in California I appreciated first of all from moment one once we started shooting the pilot how how different it felt how the chemistry was unique and it It was really, everything kind of clicked in a, just in a very different way.

And so I did appreciate it. And once we started shooting the show, every day I would go onto the lot. I remember kind of making myself remember these moments. Sure. Not for moments like this, but just for my life. Yeah. Driving onto the lot, taking my parking pass out, putting it on the, you know, the magnetic thing, putting my window down, and doing it.

And actually, at Foxy had a guy. he was really enthusiastic for a couple of years who would take it for you and he'd swipe it and then he'd wrap it up real quick he did like a whole dance thing he was kind of like he was just like doing a bit sure but he was really into his job and so was I

appreciated every morning there wasn't a morning that I drove onto the set of a rest of the development where it felt like it was work ever and I remember saying take it in appreciate it and I appreciated every fucking moment that I shot that show is a

And Tony Hale is a piece of shit I'm saying otherwise. I'm just kidding. How dare you not appreciate what we had? You, you son of a bitch. I love Tony with all my heart. And one of the cool things, I mean, you know, you allude to this, but like these kind of experiences don't happen often. And certainly, like, the relationships both personally and professionally you were able to forge. I mean, you know, you had, I don't know if you still are producing stuff with Jason, but he's obviously a close friend, Jason Bateman.

Mitch is a producer on Flaked That's unusual to say the least Yeah It has You know I think that you know Tony's been busy on his show

We would probably do more stuff If he wasn't he's kind of in his own He's got his crew Those that gang But you know we Mitch and I After the show stayed on and did With Jason

We did a brief Animated show called Sit Down Shut Up And then we did Mitch and I did Running Wild, we created that with Jim Vallee, and then we did Flake, and we've done a bunch of other things in between. I did some, I've done commercials on-camera stuff, and Mitch's come on and helped with those. And, you know, we've stayed really close, and we're close friends. And he's an important collaborator for me. And Jason is too. We did all this stuff at Dum Dum, and we're not

really producing stuff anymore together. But we, I see him a lot, we talk a lot. I was just with them last weekend you know it's our kids get together with us and and we also recognize that you know there's a moment we were at a friend's house and the kids were in the we're all swimming in the pool together and Jason's wife looked at me and she's like can you believe this and I was like I know it's it's pretty crazy yeah and and then and then Jason started screaming Jason can't swim and not a lot of people know this oh so it turned into a thing it was actually not a happy It was a terrible...

Is he okay? And it turned out, he wanted me to give him mouth to mouth, which is like a... That's a fucked weird way to get to that. Just ask a friend. And he was like... And in front of your kids. And in my friend of my kids, he's like,

Save what the tongue do it with the tongue. And I was like, why would that save your... Are you creatively involved? Speaking of Arrested Season 5, are you talking to Mitch about his own... Is he kind of in a hole right now writing? Or are you kind of in the writer's room for that? Or what's...

I have been. and I think that I'll probably return a little bit it's been tough just because of other stuff I've been trying to do with Jabby and Thank you

It just makes me happy You would adore a chapie he's one of the funnier people he's so fucking dry He's the panniest person of all time too and he does it really slowly

man Yeah, but yes, and it's a really fun, you know, I kind of knew Mitch had an idea of where he wanted to go this season a long time ago at the end of that last season, season four, which I was also in the room on for a little while, and it's going to be very satisfying, I think, for the fans this season, without giving anything away, it's important that we kind of keep that under wraps. Is he still going to recut? So the season four was kind of divisive, right? Job inherits it all. Oh, shit. Why did I? No, you were so close.

Like, we were moving on. I literally was moving on. I know, but my ego took over. And I needed to be liked in that moment. Well, it's something to look forward to. But I know, like, there was some divisiveness around season four. Yes. Particularly because of the structure and the way you had to shoot it and necessities of that.

Yeah. Is he still going to, like, recut it chronologically? He talked about doing that. He already has. So we're going to eventually going to see it. Yeah, eventually. There's a whole, there are a lot of issues surrounding why that can't and or hasn't been released yet. Okay.

Having to do with lawyers. But, you know, I, there were people, I know there were a lot of people who didn't like season four because of the way it was and because that everybody had their own episodes. And if you go back and you watch those episodes, and you will. You're ordering me? You will. Okay. I hope you'll go back. It's, that's like the, right?

That's what the president said to Comey. Yo, Comey for life. No, no, that's, by the time that it, by the time this airs. No. What does this air? This airs right before the gong show premieres, I believe, in two weeks, yeah. By now, the nation is feeling gong show fever.

Gong show for life. Is that, is that same? Sure, that's fine. What was the question? I don't remember what's going on. Oh, the season four, and I think what you were alluded to is, the complexity of it is very rewarding. Yeah, I think if you go back, you know, there was a guy, one of the reviewers, I think a guy from the Washington Post had said initially, you know, they didn't send it out for reviewers.

Right. And so people just, you know, their initial reaction, it was very highly anticipated at the time, if you recall. And some of the early reviews that came out were withering. And then this, including this guy from WAPO, as I call them. And then the next week, the guy said, you know, I went back and I rewatched, and I have to say, this is, I was wrong. Yeah. The complexity is outstanding. This is the most, potentially the most ambitious comedy ever made.

This is like the Ulysses of comedy. Yeah. And I appreciated the James Joyce reference. Well, it's interesting. You've kind of had that experience a couple times in different ways. Even BoJack at first. Yeah. Pan.

Yeah. And there were a few people whom I was psyched about. who were reviewers who were really especially shitty about it because I know they're trying to get clicks so they have to say they have to be as shitty as possible you can't be in the middle

you can't actually have a nuanced complex at all it's got to be super shitty to get clicks because if he doesn't get clicks then he loses his job Will Arnett the worst fucking guest ever on Happy Sagan confused or the best or the best

we'll decide for the end Will Ernett blows the roof off this dump in the best way. By the way, I should just say as an aside, by dump, I don't mean this place is a dump. Well, you were kind of alluding it a little earlier

that you were saying the tables, like a wheel, that collects cables, so I mean, we have that on tape. For this building, it's very cool. You know what I mean? Because it's... There's an aesthetic we're going for. You're here, you're in this building. Do the fans know where you record that you're at Viacom?

Can I say that? Buyacom. Doesn't that sound like, hey, you know what? What are we going to call the company? let's just put it into the computer and see what the computer comes up with okay we'll toss a couple of media and TV shows

and we did this and what does that say click click click I uh okay good good enough good enough it was like the old it was like the old phone company 9X

oh yeah that was good ever 9X of course we're all connected New York telephone now Josh let me ask you a couple of questions now you're on the hot seats well you are a talk show hosts When I saw you a Comic-Con, you were hosting.

You've done a recent guest hosting on Kimmel. So clearly you want my job all over the place. Well, no, I don't. But I just said I was doing an interview with somebody. I mean, I know it's hard. That's, you know, like, honestly, it would probably take a monkey like 15 minutes to learn how to do this.

You know what I'm saying? Because at the beginning of that sentence, it made it sound like it was... I wish I had a rib shot. I could do a fuck. I would have done a rib shot. You should bring a gong along with you. No, but I was going to say,

where are you from? Are you from this... I'm a New Yorker born and bread. I grew up in... New York City. Cut it out. I have no driver's license. I'm a 41-year-old man that is not a functioning adult.

I've never lived anywhere else. That's amazing. You probably could not live anywhere else now. Well, Uber has saved my life. Of course. So I could. If you go to Los Angeles, you use Uber. Have you ever thought about getting your driver's license?

Let me ask you this. Sure. I'll pay for you to get your license. Will you teach me to drive? I'd love to teach you how to drive. Can we do that? I don't mean this in any kind of like, You know, Raymond, I'm an excellent driver.

Classic reference. Yeah, I thought you were good, everybody he loves. No, no, no, Raymond, burn the baby. 82, 82, 826? Yes, yes. We're doing all Rain Man references this week. It's perfect. We're wearing matching outfits.

We are. Wait, I'm Tom Cruise, right? Sure, you got to be Tom Cruise. I just interviewed Tom Cruise the other night for The Mummy. Did you really? Yeah. How, I love Tom Cruise. Me too.

He's so positive. Well, it's funny you say that. So, like, we did happy, say, confused photos, as I always do. And they're all the same. He couldn't not smile. I couldn't post the others because it's like. He's like, what's sad? Incapable of sadness.

Chappie, love. Tom Cruise. I love Tom Cruise. He, you know. Have you ever met Tom Cruise? I have, briefly. Yeah. I was at this thing

and Kimmel says Jimmy Kimmel said you want to meet Tom Cruise literally like that I'm going to be yes I want to meet him he's like come here I went over and shook his hand I love his movies I love those the Mission Impossible movies I love those and and

but I years ago Tom Cruise was doing the questionnaire he was on inside the actor's studio with James Lipton whom I knew, I've got to know from arrested development. And so I saw him do, it was after our first season, and Tom Cruise was on, and James Lipton was beside himself. He was so giddy.

And Cruz asked him the questionnaire, a few questions. And clearly, Mr. Lipton... He has that ready. He's got that. I mean, they were locked down. He pulled them out tablets. They had been etched. in stone and and he asked him the question

and his answers were terrific amazing so about a week later we were in Los Angeles for our first ever arrest development Emmy Bate reading session and James Lipton moderated after and

it was very strange Cross could be there and Jim Rash had to sit in for Cross and read whom you know Jim Rash is actor writer I'm sure I do it the name was about yeah yeah and

that was late July 2004 true story so anyway show off I know and so Lipton James Lipton goes along the cast afterwards just to do a brief version of the questionnaire with everybody sure and he gets to me on and the question is what profession other than the one you currently do would you most like to do and and you know and why or whatever what what profession do you think you could do and I just seen the week before his answer and I gave it back to him exactly what he said and I said that's easy

dancer but with one provisio that I'd never get injured and I never get old how did he react and I remembered this day him just kind of like looking down and going like this small it was the fucking greatest

it was such a great Lewis you were there it was at the Lewis was with me Louis is not in the, there's no one else in the room, Will. Right? You got that right, Lewis. Would you, it's interesting.

So, Tom Cruise, so like, speaking of films, what's the film career? What lane do you want to have in film? Because it's a tough kind of road. Andy Lay. No, but seriously. Because, like, the film work you've done. Yes. And by the way, your work in Pop Star was excellent.

Thank you. I truly mean that. That TMZ parody was hysterical. Thanks. But, like, has it been tough to kind of find, like, what your lane is? For sure. It's been very. difficult. And, you know, I used to,

very recently, I've joked many times, I said, if it wasn't for bad films, I wouldn't make any. But, you know, it's much more difficult, and it's much more difficult now. You know, we live in a time that, for the most part, unless it's a big

franchise, it's very difficult to get films made. And, you know, in terms of comedy, there aren't a lot of films that comedically that hold up, because it's difficult, because the process of making a film is so arduous. It takes so long that it completely defeats the spontaneity

with which you need to make a comedy. It's interesting. So we just had Jake Johnson in the other day. And he was telling me, he was a very funny guy, obviously. And he was talking about let's be cops, which made money, did well. And he was like, it was a miserable experience. Like we had, like, Keegan and, like, Riggle and, like, the funniest people on the planet. Yeah.

And it just felt like going through the motion, something in that process. us, it killed it. It took forever. And honestly, that's it. I remember making Blades of Glory years ago, and, you know, Will is so funny. And, you know, we had such a great cast, and Amy was amazing and hilarious. And we fought against that the whole time. We were constantly like, come on, let's go, let's go.

And Will Speck and Josh Gordon, who had become great friends, and we worked together, and they worked on Flake last year. And, you know, they understood that we weren't being like dicks. We were like, we got to keep it moving. You've got to keep it fresh. Comedy relies on that. That's why there's so much great comedic TV. Sure.

Because the pace is... Inherently is just quick. Yeah, you have to. I do think that's a major problem. But there are films that I'd like to make and there are stuff. You know, now there are a couple things that I'm working on that are much closer to what I want to make. and hopefully those things come to fruition. Did you have more fun on the set of G-Force or Jonah Hex?

Well, G-Force was really fun. It was because Zach was in it. Oh, that's right. Yeah, so Zach and I fucked around a lot, and it's funny. It didn't end up being a great movie. Of course, it was a kid's movie. My son loves it, and he got a lunchbox,

a G-Force lunchbox. And I kind of felt like he was, trying to like he was taking the piss out of me I was like Is he fuck with me? Ernest love. No, he legitimately loves it, which is sweet. And so.

Does he have Jonah Hex lunchbox? Jonah Hex, look at the cast of that. Amazing. Josh Berlin. Fastbender. Michael Fastbender.

Michael Shannon. John Malkovich. Me. Well, that's... You know what I mean? Yeah, I agree, but you probably shouldn't be going to say that. So, I mean, I should have led with me. so like best intentions we'll earnette joint by the way yes best intentions that was a crazy movie

um you made it a couple times sounds like it was it was a bizarre i remember somebody telling me i remember i think it was somebody something the last day they were in there was in new Orleans which is it was so hot and obviously and um we're wearing all these costumes and stuff it was very weird and disorganized and people were wandering around it was the last day and then People were, one of the second 80s was, like, crying into the parking lots. And I'm pretty sure what Josh had told me this and said, like, what? Because I had gone and said, like, what's going on? I said, oh, one of the dudes was like, oh, man, everybody's on mushrooms.

Like, the whole crew was on mushrooms. And that's just the way it, like, it was just crazy. Wow. It was just like insanity, man. And, of course, you can't get anything done. It was like the making of Apocopes now, except Jonah Hex came out of it, except of Apocopos now. Yes, that's right. But I had a lot of funny, there were some funny moments in that.

Josh Burland is such a funny guy. He's hysterical. He's a very unique, crazy guy. He's so awesome. I really, apart from being a great actor, I just love him. I just think he's just such an excellent dude. And I remember a couple years ago, I live right around the corner from here. I'm not going to tell you where I was so relaxed.

Sure. And I was going to follow you. I was walking up Hudson Street, and I had dinner with a friend of mine, and I was at the corner of my street. and we're talking and all of a sudden I hear somebody go, hey, kind of come up the corner and go, hey, Will, and I go, hey, man. And I turn and I keep talking to my friend.

And he goes, Will, and I go, yeah, man, how are you doing? And I keep talking. You know, he goes, Will, it's Josh. And it was Josh Brolin. And I go, oh shit, man, sorry. He was wearing a coat and it was dark out. Sure. He goes, do you for real,

do you for real not recognizing? me and I go, dude, it's dark. And then my friend was like, even I recognize it was you, and I don't know you. And I was like, I was so embarrassed. He was really funny about it. He almost played Batman, you know. Did he? I did not know that. He was literally,

it was like him in Affleck were like, he was like the other one that was supposed to Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. What's, I think he would have been amazing by the way. And Ben's good too, of course. But what's the, is there a Lego Batman future? Honestly, I really adored that movie. It was like a really smart funny movie. Oh, thanks.

You know, I hope so. We're working on the sequel to the Lego movie right now. Right. And, but there are a couple ideas kicking around for Lego Batman, too, and I hope it happens. So we'll see. It's too early to really say definitively, but I think it would be something everyone wants to do. Yeah. So what's, is most of the stuff that you consume now in terms of pop culture according to what your kids are into?

Yes. Yeah. It really is. And there are a few things that I love that my kids are into. You know, every, I don't mean, like, first of all, I don't mean fidget spinners. I haven't, yeah. I have a couple, but I do. Any on you right now?

Not on me. Okay. Not on me. I'm not holding. But they, I was like, God, fuck, why didn't I think of inventing that? What is the, and it's just like, I need to be reminded that I'm dumb. Are there actual games to do with it? Or is it literally just to do tricks with them?

I've had friends who come over because we have a bunch and two bucks. And so, you know, you just, I'll have friends go, that's a fidget spree, yeah, yeah. What do you do? Just grab it and then they go like this? Yeah. And then what? That's it. You can go the other way if you want, I guess.

You know what, Thoreau, Justin Thoreau stole one of, you were about to quote Thoreau. Yeah, it was. Once said. Fidget spinners. Man. Justin Thoreau stole one of my son, Abel's, fidget spinners. Well, he kind of, he didn't steal it per se. It makes sense.

He's that kind of good. He kind of pocketed it. And then the next day, he was like, I think Justin took my thing. And so I was like, hey, did you take? And he sent a picture of it in his garbage. What a piece of shit. I know. What a total dirt bag.

He knew where it was. Yeah. He put it in the garbage. And then he was, like, rubbing it in, and my son is six. That's how much he hates you. He's a maniac. And I'm like, I wish he wasn't, I wish he hadn't been left over. You know, I wish he had departed.

That's a good one to watch with the kids. They love it. My kids love departed. They love Game of Thrones. Right. They love the 50 Shades movies. You shouldn't be doing that. You shouldn't be doing that.

They're like, what's departed about? I'm like, um... A leftovers, you mean? Sorry, leftovers. What's the leftovers about? I was like, uh, how do I explain this in a non-super terrifying way? There's no way. There's no way.

Congratulations on all your success. Everybody should check out Flaked Season 2, now on Netflix. Yes. You've got Netflix. We know... Streaming. It's streaming. Do you feel it's streaming by you right now?

It's constantly streaming. It's just there. Yeah, because you're what, you know, and I've been through this before, not right now. I'm wearing these headset, but for the most part, I'm wireless. I'm completely wireless. You're not tethered. No, so people are like, oh, this place, it's wireless, it's wireless. I'm like, hey, motherfucker, I'm wireless, up in here.

Okay. So, oh, we got to go. We got to go. I got more, I'm going to do a real podcast. Is your fake friend talking to you again? What's, quote, unquote, Lewis saying to you now? Get me on Marin again, because I want to do a quick compare. I want to do a back-to-back.

You know, briefly, I listened to the Marin, and I was so, I mean, he's, I think he's the best in the business. Yes, yes. And I was like, oh, fuck, he did the definitive will interview. Like, there's nothing left to do. You know what? I didn't mention that I knew John Kennedy, Jr. Nailed it. It's good to see you, buddy.

You too, man. Everybody check out Flakes. Check out the gong show. Gong show up in here. Right, calm down. I was doing it. That's too far. Now they don't want to watch it.

Just watch it, guys. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. This episode of Happy Sad Confused was produced by Michael Catano, Mukta Mohan, and Kasha Mihailovich for the MTV Podcast Network,

with additional engineering by Little Everywhere. You can subscribe to this and all. all of our other shows on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Google Play, Spotify, or wherever else you find your favorite podcasts. for Academy Award role in Twisters. We love movies, and we come at them from different perspectives. Yeah, like Amy thinks that, you know, Joe Pesci was miscast in Goodfellas, and I don't. He's too old. Let's not forget that Paul thinks that Dude, too, is overrated.

It is. Anyway, despite this, we come together to host Unspooled, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, must-season, and case you miss them. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night. We've done deep dives on popcorn flicks. We've talked about why Independence Day deserves a second look. And we've talked about horror movies,

some that you've never even heard of like Ganges and Hess. So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic adventure. Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to hit the follow button.