Happy Sad Confused - Willem Dafoe, Vol. II

Episode Date: October 23, 2019

With a career as storied as Willem Dafoe's, it's no wonder he's back on "Happy Sad Confused"! This time, he's got another award worthy performance to talk about--the grizzled foil to Robert Pattinson in the moody and haunting film, "The Lighthouse". Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Conditions apply. Visit rbc.com slash avion. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Wilhelm Defoe takes us on a mad trip to the White House. Hey, guys, I'm Josh Horowitz. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Yes, one of the greats, the wonderfully talented, the unique Willem Defoe on the podcast today.

His second trip to Happy Say Confused, I guess he survived the first one a couple years back, and he's a glutton for punishment. He came back for more. I could talk to this guy forever. He's had not only such a storied, fascinating career, but is so eloquent and interesting talking about his own career and art and his philosophies around acting. He's got a great sense of humor, and he's so prolific. I mean, year after year, he just turns out great work. And it seems like he's only, I mean, I don't know if he's getting better, but he certainly feels like he's at the top of his game, or at least as much as he's ever been.

The last few years, he's been Oscar nominated. The last time he was on Happy Second Fused, he came by for that wonderful film, The Florida Project, which was two years back. He got an Oscar nomination for that one. Last year, he got an Oscar nomination for At Eternity's Gate, where he played Vincent Van Gogh. And he's back in the hunt this year.

he may very well end up with another Oscar nomination. I would be perfectly happy to see him get in there because it's a great performance in a atmospheric haunting film called The Lighthouse. The Lighthouse, if you don't know it, is out now in select theaters, hopefully playing near you, seek it out. It's from the director, Robert Eggers, who you may have seen his last film The Witch a few years back,

which was one of the most, just, again, I go back to the word haunting, but it was such an atmospheric, like, meticulous journey for an audience. And in this one, he takes the audience on another journey to a far-off place. We are in a square black-and-white box from the moment this film starts, and we are basically stuck on an island with Willem and Robert Pattinson for a couple hours. and it is, it's just like hardcore lighthouse, like the mermaids and mystery abound. It's a weird little movie, but you will, there's nothing like it that's out in theaters right now, so I would encourage you to seek it out if you're a fan of great cinema,

of beautiful cinematography that transports you, and of fine performances. Willem and Robert are, you know, you would never mean, I guess Robert Eggers would put them together, but I can't imagine many other people would put these two actors together, and I'm so glad he did. They both deliver fantastic performances in this one. So seek it out. The Lighthouse, Willem Defoe is the main event on Happy Set Confused this week. Other things to mention, I've mentioned it probably last week, but just because there's a lot going on. Let's see. The newest episode of On Location, my series for the Paramount Network is out. Super happy with the series so far. So far we've done episodes with Lance Reddick

taking me on a tour of New York of the locations that are, that populate the John Wick series. And the most recent episode is with the great Kevin Smith, taking me on a little journey through the quick stop back in New Jersey where they shot the original quirks 25 years ago. If you haven't caught on yet, the notion of this show is to journey through these storied films with the filmmakers and actors and sort of just glean some kind of wisdom and get some great stories. We've been shooting a bunch of these, and I'm so happy with them. The Kevin Smith one is just perfection. It's exactly what you would want in a series like this. So if you're wondering where you can catch it, well, don't worry, I'm going to tell you on Paramount Network's

Facebook page, on Paramount Network's YouTube page, or you can dig through my social media. Twitter is Joshua Harrowitz as his Instagram. So definitely recommend that. I hope you guys enjoy it. Other things to mention my interview by now is out. with the zombie land crew, zombie land double tap is in theaters. I got a chance to chat with Emma Stone, Woody Harrelson, and Jesse Eisenberg and Abigail Breslin for a really fun conversation. That's on MTV News's YouTube page. I got a chance to catch up with Paul Rudd for his new series, Living With Yourself on Netflix. Always great to catch up with Paul. Talk to Little Ghostbusters. Yes, he's in the new Ghostbusters movie. Some very cool stuff there. Yeah, a lot

a lot going on guys um that's enough plugs right i've given you a long list of things to watch and listen to uh and you're already here for for something for a treat as it is why why do i need to give you other things to check out when you're here for willam defoe right okay uh here is my conversation with the great willem defoe remember to review rate and subscribe to happy second fused uh and without any further ado here is willam Yeah, I've decorated differently since I probably saw you last, Willem. Yeah, yeah, I'm checking it out. Just taking it in.

No, no judgment. Just just, just. It feels like a little judgment. It feels like a little judgment. Oh, no, I'm just trying to get your number. This is really creepy. The, uh, what do you know what that is, Will? It's like one of these face thing, uh, face change.

It's Jennifer Lawrence. Yes. Yes. You. No. Oh, sadly, I wish. Thank you for the compliment. Jennifer Lawrence and Bradley Cooper.

There you go. William doesn't realize it, but he's on my game show now, apparently. Non-sexual escort cash on me. That's pretty good. That's a sketch I did with Michael. I will happily share it with you. I think you would appreciate. Shit?

Wow, what's that? That's a sketch I did with Donald Gleeson. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Lots to... If you get bored of the conversation, Wilm, there's a lot to stare at. No, no, we'll stick to conversation. Okay.

How about that? You like that? That's fabulous. Who's that? That's me. That's a painting of me done by, a great actor by the name of Danny McBride. Okay. Okay. Willem's leaving the room.

Why is Willem leaving? No, I'm okay. I'm okay. I'm enjoying. It's always a treat to have Willem to phone in my office. This is the second visit to the podcast. Clearly, I did something okay the first time. You're back.

But judging, by the way, you're receiving my office, I don't know if there'll be a third. No, no. I just don't have an office. Well, I do, but I keep it pretty. Actually, I've got a cabinet of curiosities. Oh, that sounds fascinating. It's like, you know, like a chunking heads? What, like?

Basically, yes. I mean, things like that. Things in travel that are basically useless, but they're memories. My parents are there. Their ashes are there. That's sweet. But I come from big family, so only an eighth of their ashes. Right.

And I like it very much because their ashes are there in a mason jar with a photo of them. And I wrecked their names and their birthday eggs on. And so, you know, they're around. But some people scald me. They say, you're supposed to let the ashes go. But there's plenty of time for that. Exactly. Exactly.

I think it brings you peace and happiness and furthers their memory. It's a good thing. But when I get something useless in my travels, I know where it's going to go. There you go, into the Willam Defoe Man Cave collection of curiosities. There's always a lot to discuss with you because you are a prolific contributor to our arts. And last time you were here was a couple years back, Florida Project. Okay, yeah. I mean, it really, it speaks to your amazing career that, like, you know,

these aren't even the three most recent films, but three of the more notable ones people have talked about are Florida Project at Eternities Gate and Lighthouse. And you think of these three films, and they are just... Very different. They couldn't be more difference. Oh, good. Which is, I suspect the goal of any, of any artist, any actor. Not really a goal.

Not really a goal. But when you notice it, you say, yeah, that's nice. You know, just, look, it's, it's, everybody's different. But for me, it's helpful not to go to the same well all the time. Yeah. You know, it's more fun to, you know, try different things, learn different. different things work in different situations and do you think you've you have obviously gotten a lot of acclaim throughout your career but I mean those two of those roles at

attorneys gate and forward project earned you Oscar nominations well-deserved thanks don't want to jinx that this one could lead to some things too are you getting better at choosing the material are people noticing you in a different way what's what's the what's the alchemy what's happening I don't like to think about that stuff. But, you know, I'm going through a good period where, you know, I cultivate relationships with directors and in the case of those three movies you mentioned, those are seeds that I planted somewhere and then something, you know, grew from them. Sean Baker, I really approached him. Julian Schnabel, I had known for 30 years, and I had done that.

small things in his movies. We were friends, but there was never really something substantial for me to do in any of his movies. Right. So then when at Eternity's Gate came, it was like a natural extension of our friendship and knowing each other. And for Robert Eggers, I saw the witch. I saw it under beautiful circumstances because I knew nothing about it. I had been away, and I just saw this movie. You saw the poster. No one told me anything about it. I went in. I think

I saw it at Angelica, you know, like in an afternoon. And I went, wow. And then I took my wife to it the next day. She went, wow. I said, this guy's got something. So I wonder where he's at, what he's up to. So then I had a meeting with him, and we hit it off and basically said, let's find something to do. And as it turns out, Rob Pattinson did exactly the same thing. Great minds. I mean, I don't blame you if I were in your position because, I mean, like, from my position, I saw that film too, and I had never heard of him.

I think he was maybe a DP or something before then. He was a lot of production design, and he was an actor as well. It was an experimental theater, yeah. Dunstreet Theater. Oh, so very much of your, so you're back. Yeah, we certainly hit it off right away. I knew what he was talking about. He knew what I was talking about.

But, yeah, when I saw The Witch, I was blown away. It's one of those things where, like, I mean, it almost sounds like hyperbole, but I watch it. I'm like, are these actors? What am I, like, what am I even watching? He's very good at, you know, one of the things that I noticed is when you have a period film, you know, people usually to achieve that period kind of point to it. You know, you.

Markers. Markers, but they were invisible. You were really in that world, and he found those people, some were actors. Most of them were actors, of course, not children, really. But through the language, through the research, through the story, you know, he found a very specific kind of unrecognizable feeling. And then, of course, Jaron Blaski, the DP that he works with,

They work together with a very refined visual language. And he certainly brings that in a different way to the lighthouse, a different aesthetic completely, but very specific, very evocative and transports you right from the first frame. You're in a virtual box, kind of a square frame, black and white. I don't even know how to describe it except that it's like nothing I've seen on the screen in many, many years, if ever. It's true.

Um, did, was that part and parcel of like his vision in the script in the initial talk with you of what he was trying to achieve? Um, do you describe it like the visual approach? Like what he's trying to get out? You know, yes. Uh, first of all, he's a research freak. He really lives in his head in those different times. And I think he really believes he can, you know, express and, and illuminate what's going on today with knowing the past. Well, I mean, that's his MO. He's very interested in. history, he's very interested in other cultures, in the occult even. So he does an incredible amount of research, and he turns you on to that research. It's done with a lot of love and a lot of detail. So you have this wealth of stuff to look at before you even begin. So you start to form an idea of what he wants to do.

And then when we did some rehearsal, and the thing that was particularly, particular about the rehearsal was usually the actors rehearse and then you set the camera or have an idea of the camera. But in this case, the camera is there and basically the actors have to, we have to figure out how we're going to place ourselves in the frame and how we're going to do the actions. So you're really submitting to the language and you're submitting to, you know, the world. Yes. Which I don't mind at all because I find that really focuses you. Yeah, sometimes if every option is available. Yeah, it's true.

Too many choices. And also, you know, I think, you know, being present and receiving things that are there, you know, if you can concentrate on that, concentrate on the actions that are there, concentrate on what's around you, and not always feel a pressure to invent, it frees you in a way. Even spontaneity isn't dependent on invention. It really is on being comfortable and be receptive and entering that world. So he makes a very complete world and you get there and you feel like you know what has to be done. You don't feel intellectually that you're making choices. You feel more intuitively like you're living that life just because the world is so complete and the things that you have to do are so detailed and precise.

Is there weirdly any similarity then in like the Wes Anderson world? I mean, obviously, it's so different, but he has such a specific world that he creates for you. Very different just because Wes, West, for example, likes to really refine as he's shooting. And you can go many, many, many, many, many takes and shoot lots of variation. In this case, it was very clear what we had to do.

We're under really hellish conditions. So you had to prepare as much as possible and get it fairly quickly. Yeah, very different conditions. But they're similar in they have this thing gnawing at them that gives them a special attachment to a world that they turn us on to and then let us loose in. And that's the movie. Yeah, I'm sure you never want the reverse where you turn over to. of video village or the guy next to the camera and you see the guy yawning and just none of that

none of that and you know there isn't a lot of there isn't checking stuff and we're shooting film huh and nobody's around hanging around video village yeah you're like video village not on the lighthouse no no it's avanti avanti avanti and that's nothing to brag about i mean it's fine to you know sure there's all kinds of ways to work but for this that matched the world it matched what we were doing. You know, the story is quite simple. The language is quite elevated and quite specific. The way we're shooting is quite specific. It was great fun. Is the language fun? Is the dialect fun? It's fun to listen to. It's just like, you know, it's evocative. There are great images in there. And it's skillful in the respect that it's beautifully written. And like when I'm berating,

him, the insults are quite articulate and quite interesting. Colorful and they stick with you. And they get a rhythm and they have a music. So it's fun to be able to sing that, you know, to be able to do that song to really

get in the groove and have the rhythm take you to an understanding that's beyond thinking. And it's more, you know, poetic and taps into your instincts.

I realize I haven't. I'm always the worst at setting up things. But like for those that have seen, you know, I mean, it's the least fun part of this job. But like, basically see the trailer. But this is you and Robert Pattinson in this lighthouse. You are stranded together. It is, I mean, this is not a thing where you want to know much about the plot, except that you two have a very antagonistic at times relationship that builds and gets more surreal

and what's real and what's not. Yes. It is a two-hander. You're doing pretty good. It's a two-hander. It's you and Robert Pattinson, which I think piqued a lot of people's interests, just the notion of you two together. Okay. You know, I've talked to Rob many times over the years. I admire, I really admire what he's done with his career. Just in terms of like he knew he had to put in the work kind of to like get to where he's at. He was gifted a lot early on and now he's kind of like reaping the rewards of some hard labor. From what I gather, different approaches in terms of approaching the work. I think that's true, but, you know, the truth is his approach suited his character. My approach suited my character. Because we have different jobs, really.

I mean, the way he's positioned, it is a two-handed, but he's really the true protagonist in the respect that you see the world through him. And you enter that world and you're with him. It's very rare that you see me alone. I think you don't. You always see me with him. and so he's kind of the guy that the story is working on and I'm kind of the part of nature I'm the force that's the motor that's pushing him to a place

I mean I get my buttons pushed too but they're very different functions and also for a lot of the movie in the beginning he's got he's got the actions and the more contemplative stuff and I have I'm driving the the verbal stuff because he's very I'm loquacious and he's quite

withdrawn. Yes. But then it shifts after a certain point. And also we have different backgrounds. I mean I come from the theater. I'm older than he is. Just have different takes on it. When we were rehearsing

he always felt like he didn't want to commit to anything until the cameras were rolling. And I don't require rehearsal, but in this case, I thought it was good to, you know, like prepare things and then let them go, you know, because that's what I needed, particularly with the heavy language and with a lot of business and physical things that had to be very precise. You'd like to get that to a certain place and then jump off from there. Then that's your time to jump off, you know. but my character needed that preparation

his character needed it less so it all made sense and that often happens in movies different people have different approaches and you got to respect that and let them get there the way they got to get there and it's really up to the director to kind of balance and calibrate things

the same movie etc yeah but we also were we also were operating under the same conditions pretty much. So we came together. I mean, it was good. No, no problems. We've talked before about how physicality is kind of a place where you often start

for a character. And this one, certainly there's the facial hair, there's teeth. There's a lot of their choices that have to be made. Yeah, well, I mean, it goes part and parcel. If you want the crusty old Whitehouse guy, this is it. Yeah, and an accent was very, very. important knowing where to place my voice for that for that accent was important um you know one of the nice things about the character is you don't know what's made up in what he's putting on

so that's fun uh to approach a character like that do you ever get into a performance into a production and like on week two you're like oh wait i i made a terrible i made a terrible choice like i i i don't make choices I don't I do things and you know live and die by this by them no I mean

I don't I don't feel like I you know I don't know I'm very I feel very much like I try to be an extension of the director you know

I try to live in that world and when you speak about choices choices always sounds like people you know if you make choice of course I'm a choices, but the language I have a little problem with, because it assumes that you are conscious

of showing a particular thing or imparting a particular thing, where I'm kind of more, I wouldn't even say intuitive, I'm kind of simple. You know, performing on some level is very simple. It's doing tasks for me, and then as you do them, things happen to you. But if you're too strong in your choices. If you're there's too strong in in what result has to be there or what has to be conveyed, I think it squelches your receptivity to what's happening to you when you're doing these things. Right. And how you do these things, um, I feel like you do one action and that tells you how to do the next action. It's like, it's like, you know, one thing I learned in, uh, at eternity's gate is make one mark. Yeah. And then you make another mark. Don't think the final results.

And then the other one, each thing informs the next thing. So the choice is to be there and listen and have stuff work on you. Or the director gives you a text or tells you something has to be accomplished and you try to find the most skillful way to do that. I'm kind of talking around it, but this word choice is a little trick. I hit one of your buzzwords. I was like, oh, shit. I just have to go and my choice.

You push my button. Now I know for the future. I know I can change. He's going to choose to change. Maybe I love that button later. From the start, you've worked with exceptional directors. And clearly that's been more even than the writing has been what you followed.

You followed the director. He followed the person who has a vision. was that something that you knew from the start when you started your film career that this if I'm going to follow anybody if I'm going to follow some rule of thumb for how I choose projects if I have the luxury of choice

a little bit a little bit but you know I've worked with first time directors too it has to do with being with people that inspire you and people that you think you can trust and people that are serious and passionate I always get in trouble

when I feel like when we're on set or when we're doing something the person directing is interested, it wants to be somewhere else or is just crafting something for another film, another day, or something. You know, it comes, you know, you want to be around people that burn hot

because if you're, if you're, or are thoughtful or really haunted by something that they have to do, because you're an extension of them. You're trying to help them do this thing. Because you're their agent. You're the creature in front of the camera.

They're behind the camera. So you're their actor. You act for them. You do things for them. So if you're going to give yourself to someone, you better give yourself to someone that you think is worth it. It's like falling in love.

Where's the way by? Last time you were here, we got a chance to hit on a number of films that I admire viewers, but it was only the tip of the iceberg that we could do 10 hours. We're only going to do about 45 minutes today, so don't worry. A couple we didn't hit last time, and I'm surprised. Usually it often comes up is, of course, Spider-Man. I'm curious, like, when you took that role, when you chose to get involved in that, were you, was there a concern about process or even perception of that choice for you in your career?

I mean, you come from a very, you know, an artistic community that maybe some would thumb their nose at projects like that. I was, you know, I think some people said, you know, kind of wink at me and like, ah, doing it for the paycheck. Not at all. I did it because it was interesting. Right. I didn't have any perspective on it because, you know, doing a film of a comic book was kind of wacky then. It wasn't business as usual. Yeah.

But I think once again, I'm going to book. bore you with the recurrent theme. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. I get it. No, because I thought, this guy is nuts. He's going to make this popular, you know, kind of tent pole movie before probably that term was used.

But he's doing it like it's the most personal movie in the world. I mean, he was a believer. You know, the way he'd approached those scenes and he'd talk about the relationship between, you know, the father character me and Peter and his son I mean there was stuff to play I mean it wasn't we weren't just it was a deeply felt film

and a lot for you to chew on not even just the goblin character but Norman is a fascinating character Normans maybe the better of the two characters because and the biggest thing that I always go back to is I think somewhere I knew it was a beautiful mix of

comedy and drama and sometimes one line next to the other you know yeah there's a dinner scene that I think of

particularly that hit shifts you know ten times between being kind of winky kind of aware kind of fun

jokey comedy and then really getting a little heavy yeah well because Norman is just on the press of us the whole time he can snap at any second end

it does but everybody's with him on it I mean Aunt May is getting her licks in there too So, you know, I look back on that fondly, and certainly it's a good film that I liked a lot, and people like it. You know, that's one that people still stop me on the street about. You have a fondness, I think, and I do too, for your collaboration, David Lynch on Wilder. Oh, very much.

I mean, that was very memorable. It was quite brief, to tell you the truth, but that was a special character, just because there was none. understanding and there wasn't it was one of the least um it was almost effortless it's like he gave me the costume i put in those teeth and bobby prue you know did me i didn't do bobby prue and you know that has to do once again with the world being really complete a beautiful costume a mask in the form of a teeth a couple physical things that made me feel differently

and a beautiful, you know, beautiful lines, beautiful writing and situations and good partners, good actors in it. So all those things come together and you know, touched something, something triggered, something in my head of you know, some

hoodie guys of my childhood that I was probably scared of when I was about 10 years old that used to hang downtown by the bar and it was my chance to be one of those guys and kind of exercise the fear, you know? He passed it on to many of us that watched. Bobby Peru, it's a good character.

A great character. And Lynch is just endlessly fascinating. I mean, he's such an agamatic kind of mysterious figure for people like me. He doesn't talk much, doesn't like to explain his work. Is he someone that gives much direction? Is he sort of just hang back? I mean, you know, he's very present, but he doesn't, you know, I can't emphasize enough, you know,

there are very few directors that pull you aside and actually walk you through stuff. They do their best work by giving you a good setup, by giving you good things to work with, and letting you be free to have all that stuff swirl to play on your imagination and have you pretend you're someone else and find a different set of impulses in a different mindset.

And I don't think you do that consciously. You do it by pretending, like taking a leap, like through association, you know, through having great props to work with, great actors to work with a world that is evocative, but you don't know exactly why. All those things work on you and something happens. What about someone like Scorsese, who you've worked with a couple times, most notably... Well, most notably, Last Temptation, that was a beautiful experience because so much was demanded on me. And not just because of the character, because we had to kind of forget that.

We had to cleanse ourselves of who I was playing. I was playing Joe Schmo, not the Jesus. I was playing our Jesus. That was one of the key. things. But I had beautiful things to do in that and beautiful things to consider, and he's a master filmmaker, and it was a low-budget movie. I mean, we were a million miles from Hollywood. Everybody was there for him, and we were in the middle of Morocco under pretty extreme conditions, and we were making this thing. It was real hands-on and real direct. And he had prepared this movie for a long time and had thought about it for a long time. So he was perfect in

realizing the world. He had restrictions. But I think in the end, those restrictions, mostly budgetary, really helped. For example, we didn't have the money to have lots of centurions. So we had to deal with this kind of, you know, a different kind of scale. We we couldn't flirt with pageantry or with, you know, what do you call it, spectacle. Sure. So that helped us to keep our eyes on the prize if it's really about this guy that's, you know, asked to do this thing. And he has a little trouble. He has a trouble accepting the job.

Cliff Notes version of the Bible by William the Bible. Oh, boy. Don't joke. Don't be joking. I did. Yeah, you went through that. I was a kid, but I remember, I remember the headlines. Yeah, I was a kid, too.

It made me own pretty quick. Yeah. For those they don't know. Go look back at the headlines back in 87 or so. That was, you don't know controversy unless you open a movie about Jesus Christ in those times. That's crazy. But it was weird because it was such a well-meaning, you know. exploration of belief, you know.

I just saw The Irishman, his new film. You know what? I'm gonna see it in a couple of days, and I'm really looking forward to it. You'll love it. I mean, all of his work is so... I mean, there's obviously the tactical mastery and his ability to work with cast the right actors, as you said, put them in the right context, but there's such a deep spirituality in all of his work,

and this is kind of like, I don't know, I don't want to review it for you before you see it, but it's just the marriage of everything he does well, I think. It's remarkable. well we mentioned west you worked with west again recently i can't wait to see the new one to be fair um you know it's a real ensemble thing and i and i have uh i mean maybe i don't even have to say this but just to be clear so i don't make people think and i'm starring in west it's a group it's an ensemble yeah i'm there i can't wait but it was wonderful and uh i didn't work

long, but what we did there was beautiful. Yeah, I just spoke to Timothy Shalmy, who I think is also. Oh, yeah, yeah, he is, he is, yeah. In fact, we're in the same part of the story. Nice. It's a three-story thing. Got it, got it. Your first collaboration was on, like, Aquatic. Yep.

I'll forever be in love with your reading of the line. Thanks, thanks a lot for not picking me. Yeah, yeah. Which is still a running line in my house between my wife and me. Excellent. Excellent. What are your memories of what? You talked a little bit earlier, but...

Oh, that's a lot because that also was life changing for me because I'm not my wife. I was in Rome for a long time, and I met her there. And so that really introduced me to a huge part of my life. And also, it was the first time working with Wes, and we've worked since, and I love working with him. He, yeah, you've really cracked the coat in terms of splitting a life between New York and Rome

and then working more than here and there. You work a lot, but it seems like you've figured it out. Well, there's no figure. I mean, thank you. But you're wrong. Don't be deceived by what you see in front of you. You know, yeah. A fish on the riverbank, you know, flopping around.

Well, that's me. I also enjoyed your work in Motherless, Brooklyn. I enjoyed that. Edward Norton's long-awaited, return to directing, a passion project for him. Yeah, and he's really incredible. I mean, he wore so many hats on that, and I think he made a beautiful movie. Yeah, and again, if there's a through line in this, among others, it's directors with passion directors that, like, have a story that just has to be told.

And clearly, this was in his bones for many years. The beard was a must-have out of a light-house. It was, in fact, I don't want to make too much. of a story out of it to distract people but um you know uh edward edward said i would love you to do this part and i you know you really respond to need particularly on a passion project and if there's someone that's talented and you like like edward um so he says i really need you to do this and i read the script and i thought there was really interesting text to do uh it's a challenge for me my rhythms are usually very slow you know that guy had to be uh yeah

So that was a challenge. I said, but we got a problem. I've got to grow this beard for the lighthouse. And it doesn't seem very 50s. So I thought that puts me out of it right away. You know, I can't do it because I can't shave. I can't grow in time for the lighthouse. And I wasn't going to wear a fake beard

just because it wasn't the spirit of how we were working on the lighthouse. And he thought about it and he said, no, no, I think it might be okay. And actually, in the end, it kind of works because in the beginning, you think I'm like a crazy paranoid homeless guy, and the beard sets me apart. And also with the kind of clothes I'm wearing, you know, you can almost smell me. It looks like I'm down on my luck. And even though the beard doesn't come off in the process of the movie, you know, you start to see that character differently. So it's a good setup. Well, and yeah, actually in retrospect does make a lot of, I mean, he's the outsider.

He's kind of the black sheep that kind of, yeah, it works. Yeah, it kind of, I look at it and I don't quite recognize myself. So I like that. What's the biggest way you approach, the biggest difference to the way you approach your work now versus when you were starting out in film, what do you say? Is there, has the process changed that much for you? I don't know. I certainly, I've changed.

I think, you know, it's a question of getting older. You know, I think when you're younger, you got to plant a flag. You're a little more aggressive about, you know, going towards stuff. And as you get older... I thought you were going to say making choices for a second. I was going to kick you out of my office. Okay, no, you got me. You got me making choices. No, but, you know, you want to do a good job.

Yeah, something to prove Yeah, a little bit So I guess I don't know You're more You're more kind of aggressive And now I'm still aggressive

And I have the same kind of love If not more For performing than I ever did But I feel like I'm more patient And more flexible And I know how to conserve My energy Where

It's like a lot of things when you're young you just want to go and splat you know and when you get older you know you only have so much time and joy you said it I didn't and I'm not necessarily agreeing with you wait a second how did I get to be like the weirdo you took it on we had a fascinating chat last time about television I thought like I mean you were really open about sort of like your creature obviously a theater, but in terms of the filmed arts film. That's just where I've landed.

I mean, still is that. I am. I am just because if, you know, my opportunities change. Like, for example, in daily life, you know, when I do have free time, yeah, I watch a movie, I don't watch TV. And that's not a big choice. It's just what I, there's movies that I want to watch.

And with all the platforms in different TV shows a lot of people talk about them and they love them but I've watched a little bit and I just have a preference for movies and I think I like you know movies from other countries so I'm always catching up on stuff

so it's not a choice yeah I mean I don't have a beef with television I haven't really worked in television I've made movies that end up on on those platforms. The De Rees film is going to be for example. Yep. Yep, that's Netflix.

And yeah. But it's all about how they're made in, the community it's made and the impulse behind it. And also, you know when I say television, I guess listen, there are all kinds of ways to work

and if my life were different, I'd be maybe I'd be very happy. You know. in television, but right now I don't really know it so much. Well, it's no coincidence. Some of the films you've done in recent years have been distributed by this great company, 824, which is doing Whitehouse, which I'm thankful is, enables filmmakers like Robert Eggers, et cetera, to put stuff on the big screen, because this is a gorgeous piece of work.

And it really, as I said, it transports you. It's got some amazing performances, and it's well worth anybody listening to this podcast's time. It's always a pleasure to catch up with you, sir. I can talk to you for hours. I'm sure you'll hopefully come by again soon if I haven't creeped you out too much with my weird office yet again. No, I just get jealous.

You can take anything you like. It's like one chotchky for your cabinet of curiosity. Oh, there's the booze. You found the booze. No, but that's not for me. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person.

I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. Hey, Michael. Hey, Tom. You want to tell him? What do you want me to tell him? No, no, no, I got this. People out there, people, lean in, get close, get close. Listen, here's the deal.

We have big news. We got monumental news. We got snack-tacular news. After a brief hiatus, my good friend, Michael Ian Black, and I are coming back. My good friend, Tom Kavanaugh and I are coming back to do what we do best. What we were put on this earth to do. To pick a snack. To eat a snack.

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