Happy Sad Confused - Woody Allen

Episode Date: July 20, 2014

Woody Allen, in his very first podcast conversation ever(!), talks to Josh about “Magic in the Moonlight,” his early stand up days, the actors who got away, and his controversial stance on bagels. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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please contact ConX Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. Hey guys, welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. I'm Josh Horowitz. Today's episode, I am thrilled to say, is Woody Allen. This one requires a bit of an introduction, to say the least. Woody Allen is, this is his first podcast appearance on any podcast, maybe his only one, who knows. I have to say this is a moment. This was a moment to sit down with Woody Allen for 30-plus minutes and pick his brain about his new movie, Magic in the Moonlight,

and really about much, much more. This interview talks about his stand-up career, his days growing up in Brooklyn. A lot of, we hit on a lot of things. It's really actually very much more than. just about his new film, which is delightful, I should say, starting Emma Stone and Colin Firth. I feel like we all have a very personal relationship with the work of Woody Allen. I certainly do, being a lifelong New Yorker, being someone that, as you'll hear in the

interview, I reveal a little bit of my own personal pass with Woody Allen in that. My dad knew him a bit growing up in Brooklyn. I don't go into on the show itself, though I talk about. to Woody about this later that my mom actually also randomly knew Woody Allen in the, I guess, the early days of his stand-up career. This was something that growing up, as you can imagine, as a fan of his work, blew my mind to know my parents actually had interactions with this man that created so much profoundly inspirational work for my own career, and just as a moviegoer, his films really have, um, I've really marked my life in many different ways. It's, it's,

uh, it's not hyperbole to say that, um, there's really no one, I don't know. I would want to sit down and talk to you more than someone, uh, like Woody Allen. Um, and this interview certainly lived up to, um, all that I had hoped it would be. Uh, Woody, uh, picks his interviews very carefully nowadays, doesn't do that much. And, uh, it's, it's a true honor that, um, um, it's a, it's a true honor that he said yes to this, that his team said yes to this, and I'm profoundly grateful. I guess there's not much more to say, except I hope you guys enjoyed as much as I enjoyed sitting down with him. Just to set the scene a little bit, I was asked to moderate the press conference for Magic and the Moonlight, which I did with him, with Woody and Colin Firth and Jackie

Weaver, moderate the press conference for a bunch of journalists. that was hugely entertaining also kind of frightening but he was amazing and right afterwards I went off to Woody's office sat in his screening room set up the mics

you know poked around a little bit had a little of his diet coax and we were off to the races he came in looking for a suite he likes to have a suite after his lunch he just had lunch and he found

the first vanilla tootsie roll he'd ever encountered. And that's where you're going to hear this conversation start off. Woody Allen chewing on his first vanilla tootsie roll. So here you go, guys. Woody Allen on Happy Sad and Confused. Tweet me at Joshua Harowitz. Let me know what you think.

Use the hashtag Happy Sad Confused. And enjoy this special moment for me. And I hope you guys get as much a kick out of it as I did. Here he is. Woody Allen. away into oblivion in a minute. For those of you listening, this is the sound of Woody Allen

consuming his first vanilla Tutsi roll, which is a special moment. I've never had a vanilla Tutsi roll in my life. I've grown with chocolate Tutsi roll, but I just had lunch, and they forgot to send the Snickers and I'm desperate for candy. Is that any particular rider

that you always need Snickers in every green room of every talk show? you've ever been on? Yeah. There's a Nestle's crunch. Okay, okay. First of all, I want to remind you of a conversation. I've talked to you once before.

I had a conversation with you about six years ago on the phone, and everybody, I feel like, feels a very personal relationship to your work. And certainly, for me growing up, I was regaled with stories of my father, who was in his Larry Horowitz, who knew you way back when in Brooklyn. Sure. And, you know, I want to, can I set the record straight because growing up, he told me that there was

truancy related to Hebrew school in relation to you and him. Do you have memories of such a thing occurring? Yes, I remember him well. I remember I was truant in Hebrew school and high school all the time because the greatest pleasure of my life was to play hokey because you you didn't it was spontaneous you were going into school

which was a nightmare and suddenly you would say hey I don't have to go I could get on the BMT subway and I mean Jay go to Times Square instead of sitting in class we could go to the Paramount or the Capitol see the movie when I'd be sitting there 10.30 in the morning watching a movie at the Paramount or watching the Duke Gillington

Orchestra or something and not being in school. Were there truant officers on the lookout? Were you ever... No, that's only in comic books. There were no truant officers. Because my dad always warned me if truant officers would find me and I

and the apple does not fall far from the tree because I was a horrible truant as a child i barely went to high school uh it was it worked out in the end thankfully for both of us i guess but it's still very easy in new york city to be a truant officer was in the in the mickey mouse comics but no but you had to um you had to you know bring a note from the doctor yeah to school but you could always you know forge that yourself or that yeah do you have particular nostalgia for that time do you think back to childhood days often, or is that something that just comes up when people remind you of those days?

Well, much of childhood was loathsome because it was school. Right. And school was, when I went to school, it was not like my kids. My kids, you know, go to some nice school in New York, and everything was, you know, delightful and the classes of small and personal, and the teachers never yell. You know, we had brutal, terrible teachers when I went to school. And school was awful, and you hated it. They taught you not to learn and to hate school.

That's all they taught you. And so I have very nice memories of the times that I was able to play hockey and not go to school. And very nice memories of Friday afternoon when you get out and you didn't have to go back. It was like a furlough for 72 hours. Yeah. No, it was the godsend. Is there, when you look back, is there, is there a happiest time in your life? I mean, when you think back, for instance, to the stand-up days, the early stand-up days,

which I would think must have been a rush to get on stage for the first time and to really feed off that crowd. Is that something that's... It was nerve-wracking. I was nervous, I was nervous about performing because I was a writer for years before. And if you're a writer, you're home in your own room, quiet. or you write a television show you're in a room with maybe a couple of other writers or something but it's very private then you're a performer and you get out there and there's a lot of people

you know looking at you and the hardest thing to do is to um and the most nerve-wracking is to do a stand-up act if you're in a Broadway show a live show you're with other people and you're talking to them. And you don't even know there's an audience out there. If you're playing music, you're enjoying yourself, and you don't know there's an audience. You know, but when you're a stand-up comic, there's an audience out there, and you have,

it's you and them. Yeah. And you have to, you're talking to them. And what you can't understand at first is that they like you. They're there because they like you. But it's hard to fathom that. You know, you see them as a potential enemy. Right.

You've got to make them laugh where they won't like you or they're going to heckle you or they're going to walk out or they're going to be. But the truth is, and it takes a while to learn this because it's counterintuitive, you can only lose them. Right. They're predisposed. They're on your side. Yeah, they're on your side.

But it's hard to learn that. So does any aspect of that experiences, do you miss that? Because it occurs to me when we did this press conference just moments ago. That's probably as close as you get to entertaining an audience. And they're still eating out of your hand just as they were 40 years ago. Yeah, for some reason I can do that. That's one of the only skills I have. If I didn't have that skill, I would have had a menial job my whole life.

Because all my friends went to college. I never finished college. I never finished the first year of college. And I don't know what I... You know, I wasn't a good student. My friends in Midrard High School were all becoming doctors and lawyers. And, you know, it was so strange.

And I was lucky to be able to make people laugh. And there's something I could always do. So I can still do that. talk at a college or who goes someplace. Now, I will say this, at this stage of my life, I get a fair amount of unearned laughs. Right. Because they're...

You walk out and they already are laughing. And they're laughing. Yeah. You know, so... Does that feel hollow to you? Does it sort of like, wait, let me actually earn this before you start cackling. Are you a grateful? You'll take anything you can get.

No, no, I'm grateful. because when you start out as a comic and they don't know you, you have to earn every single laugh, you know, an unknown comic. You know, when I was younger starting out as a comic, you know, if Mortsaw would go out on stage or Lenny Bruce or something, they knew them, and they had a following. It was one thing, when I went out, because I came along a little bit after them, they didn't know me at first.

And so it was, you know, you have to earn every single laugh. Now it's a different story. Right. And I've seen that with iconic comics. You know, I don't compare myself, but I've seen older iconic comics, Groucho Marx, Jack Benny, in the latter part of their career. They'd come out and, you know, the audience was, you know, buying the ticket. grinning already yeah so Seinfeld talks about that still that he and he's still on the stand-up

circuit but he who is this Seinfeld jerry Seinfeld talks about a similar phenomenon where he yeah the first 10 minutes they're his whether whatever he says and then you get past that and then he has to earn it you kind of have to get through that grace period um you've also you've employed some some great stand-up actors who are also great actors in recent years and one gentleman louis c. um i'm just curious Have you watched Lewis's show, Louie? I mean, because some people have compared it very much to your work. I haven't seen much of them on television because I'm out every night. You know, I mean, when I come home either from shooting or from editing or from writing, you know,

and generally my wife and I go out for dinner, and we don't come home until about 11 o'clock at night. and, you know, I'm tired. I generally get into bed, watch a little bit of the news, and by 11.30, I'm out. So I haven't, I don't see much television. Once in a while, I'll stop and see it. Where I see the most television is on the treadmill. Yeah.

And I'm only on it for half an hour. But in that half an hour, I am able to watch, you know, something. But usually what I watch are the two guys who do the sports show on cable television. Right. Well, you talked about at the press conference, I mean,

it's also a good casting tool, apparently, helps with seeing the work of someone like Emma Stone. You can see people through the treadmill through that half an hour is valuable.

I never would have, I never would have seen her otherwise, because I don't see those movies. Not because they're bad movies. I just, you know, they're aimed at a different audience that they get, and it's not me.

So I wouldn't have seen it, but she's so captivating. Absolutely. I mean, you're notoriously probably the harshest critic of your own work. What's your assessment? Can you have any kind of valid assessment of magic in the moonlight and you're related to your other films? I am always disappointed.

It's the baseline. Yes, it's just always because there's a big difference between what one sets out to make and what one winds up with. Because what you set out to make exists always in fantasy. it exists in your mind exists on paper it doesn't exist for real so it's just stuff on paper or stuff in my mind i'm thinking oh this is going to be great Emma's going to come down here and this will be great and this will be great then when you do it you know Emma doesn't want to do these words because they're hard to do and the you know the weather was not so great so we have

to shift it to a different location because the sun sunlight's too harsh there, and, you know, the joke, it takes much longer for her to shuffle the deck of cards than I thought. And, you know, by the time it's over, you know, you just want to give up. Basically, filmmaking is one giant sad compromise. That's what Marshall Brickman said. Marshall Brickman said that every morning the truck pulls up with fresh compromises. I mean, in one interview, I even heard you say that, like, after seeing Manhattan, you literally didn't even want to release it, which is... I didn't, right. I thought this is the best I could do. I better pack it in. And I offered United Artists to make a film for them for nothing if they would not release it, if they were just... And they said, well, we can't do that. First of all, we like the film. But more important, you know, there's a bank loan that pays for this film, and we can't...

just, you know, not release it. It's, you know, cost a few million dollars. At that time, that was, you know, a few million dollars. It's still important. Still a good chunk of change. There's still a few million dollars. You, the film's great. And there's one, there are a few sequences that in particular jump out at me.

Your protagonist, Stanley at one point, kind of breaks down contrary to his own belief system and just resorts in a way to praying. He's kind of just, it feels like he has to. Have you in your adult life ever contemplated praying even for anything at all? No, not really. Not my adult. You know, when I was a kid, they beat you into praying. So you pray, or they hit you.

But no, not my adult life because it doesn't mean anything. It's like the people that say, have a good day. It doesn't work. You know, you don't have a good day necessarily. How do your parents reconcile your lack of the belief system? I mean, were they fine with your view? Well, of course, they're both dead, so I don't get much flack from them now. But they, my father didn't care.

My father was not religious at all. He was a street guy and didn't mean anything to him. My mother would have liked me to have been. more observant but you know but she would have she would have liked me to carry on the tradition and at least you know be more observant than I was

I was particularly you know I found it all nonsense all the time it just seemed silly to me yeah I mean if you look at the pan I mean the pantheon of people that you've employed in your films the actors and in this film you as I said

earlier at the press conference, there are a bunch of new people you've never worked with before. And, you know, it strikes people that, like, you've worked with everybody. But, in fact, there are many, arguably some of the greatest actors of the last 50 years that,

for whatever reason, haven't been in your films. And I'm curious, is there, like, one that got away that you... I mean, you know, for instance, like Tom Hanks, Jack Nicholson, Pacino, De Niro, none of these gentlemen have appeared in your films, surprisingly, when they look through it.

No, there's a number of conflicting reasons. One is... For years, most of the films I did starred me. Right. So that was one that eliminated a whole cluster of film. Then, mostly I wrote for women. Right. You're a lot of all the great, I've worked with all the great women just about,

just about every great woman. So that's another reason. A third reason is that those guys you mentioned, they're also great. They're hard to get. They're always busy. So, you know, I've called De Niro. I've called Dustin Hoffman. I've spoken on the phone with Jack Nicholson.

But I can, you know, Nicholson was going to do Hannah and her sisters. And I wasn't thinking of Michael Keynes at the time because I wasn't thinking of an English guy. Right. You know, Michael Kane's one of my favorite actors. but I didn't want an English, a British performer. It just would never occur to me. When it did occur to me, that I could use a British performer.

Of course, Michael Kane was perfect. But originally, I spoke to Nicholson on the phone, and he said, look, I'd like to do this film, but I'm also up for Pritzisana. Not up for it, but, you know, my girlfriend's father's directing it, and I've got to do it. so if he didn't have that I probably would have had him for that film

I've spoken to Dustin Hoffman but he was unavailable I've spoken as I say with not Alperino Robert De Niro you know I could never get these guys so and I don't often have parts for such great actors Usually they're for great actresses, you know, maybe some, I've worked with some pretty good guys, though.

Now I'm working with Joaquin Phoenix, who's a great actor. I've worked with Sean Penn, who is a great actor. I've worked briefly, but with Gene Hackman, Michael Kane, Anthony Hopkins. So I have worked with some pretty good actors, but I just have not had enough of the job. to work with some of our greatest, Pacino, De Niro, Nicholson. I mean, that's, you know, about as great as you get. From what I hear, like Kevin Spacey sent you a House of Cards or Netflix subscription, he's desperate to. I love to work with him.

If I had anything for him, I would do it in a minute. I think he's just great. I followed his movies. I followed him when he went on stage. I, you know, I'm considering myself lucky if I had a roll from him. Usually when I'm finished with the script, usually the role. for the woman. Right.

And in Magic in the Moonlight, I needed a British guy. Right. It occurs to me that, I don't know, we may never see another filmmaker with the kind of autonomy

that you've experienced over such a sustained period. Whether it's the timing, whether it's whatever, you've had a very rarefied, odd existence in terms of working at a manageable budget on your own with final cut.

I mean, do you, count that again just according to the luck of timing and how important has that been in terms of like creating the body of worth that you have that you've been able to kind of been an island onto yourself? Some good luck

definitely and the rest is a con job I was lucky because I started off United Artists and Arthur Crimm who's the head of the company took a liking to me

and regarded me whether true or not, as an artist. And so he said, leave him alone. So I was with a studio, but they left me to be autonomous. Then as I developed, I could actually demand to be autonomous in my contract negotiations. And over the years, I'm just you know now I'm independently backed for many years now

and so that's part of the deal if someone wants to back my films they they're told right away you're not going to see a script you're not going to have anything to say about it you're going to put the money in the bank and you know you'll get the film and that will be it that I would have complete sale over the advertising, over everything. Now, I don't throw my weight around and do this. It's really more a preventative measure just so somebody doesn't come up with a horrible thing

and impose it on me. But when I work with the distribution company like Sony, Sony Classics, you know, I let them do everything and everything's fine. I never, you know, I've had to say no to them. No, don't do this or don't do that. I just know that if it came down to it, if they suddenly came to me with a terrible trailer or a terrible tasteless ad for some reason, which they don't. But if they did, I could always say, no, you can't do that.

Right. So it's good to have that veto power. But I've never really had to use it. And I don't. And I do all their promotion that they want me to do. But I've had a good... One of the things also that helps, and I think it helped Mel Brooks for a while too

when he started out making films, there is an erroneous thought that people have that comedy is some special kind of thing. And I say, well, you know, he's a comedy genius. This is like, you know, a comedy. geniuses, it's not a legitimate genius. It's a strange variation on the disease.

Yeah, it's like the president of the PTA instead of the president of the United States. It's, yes, so, and it's always leave him alone, that's his area. He knows this, we don't know this. Like I am in possession of some secret that nobody else knows

and they leave you alone. And Mel Brooks is in possession of some secret that nobody knows and leave Mel alone and you get a funny film, leave me alone. So they would leave me alone. And over the years, my films were successful and none of them were so that I could say, look, if you want to work with me, this is the way I work. And I get no small amount of takers who are willing to say, you see, at this point in life, they know if they work with me, they know the budget's going to be modest, that I'm not going to suddenly come to them and say, I'm triple the budget, or even over the budget. I mean, if I go over the budget

and spec maybe once in a while, but they know it'll be a responsible experience, and they know that because the film costs so little, there's almost a sure thing they'll break even, Right. And they know that there's very little chance he'll get rich. Only one in, you know, a few really are very profitable. Are there ideas in the drawer that have you entertained any that have been beyond kind of that sweet spot in terms of budget that you've had over the years? I mean, do you just not entertain ideas that would cost $50 million or $100 million? Well, I had always thought about the idea of making. the life of Sidney Boucher, the great jazz musician, which immediately is an unpopular subject,

a non-commercial subject. He was a New Orleans jazz player, but had a very interesting life, and it was a miraculous musician. But one, no one would have heard of him, no one would have cared, and in order to make that film properly, I would need a much more substantial amount of money

than I get, and even if I could raise it, my firm belief is that I would lose it for the people. That, you know, if you invested, let's say, $50 or $60 million in that film, my guess is you'd have no chance of not losing money. You're not selling the project very well to potential investors right now. To be honest, I don't think it's a good investment. Does legacy matter at all to you?

I mean, you know, like 50 or 100 years from now when people are looking at film, does it matter to you whether they're talking about Woody Allen films? No, because I'll be dead. And nothing, you know, I'll get the same kick out of it that Shakespeare gets, having his wonderful legacy. No, legacy doesn't mean anything.

Once you're gone, you're gone, and that's it. And it doesn't, you know, you have no consciousness. You know how it is, when they, you know, when you get a colonoscopy or something and they put you out. I mean, that's what it is. Is there any accounting for, I mean, generally filmmakers, frankly, peak early. There's usually kind of like a shorter window of productivity in their careers. And you are remarkably consistent.

You're still producing amazing work. Is there any rhyme or reason in your mind of why you've succeeded where so many others have failed in terms of still creating things? I know in your own mind maybe they're not the success. as you would imagine them to me, but by other standards, they are. I think if you just keep your nose to the grindstone, don't think about money, don't read reviews, don't concern yourself with anything but the work, and just keep working, you know, you'll have your share of good stuff over the years, and that's all that counts. And so, you know, I just keep going, and if one hits, it hits, and if one misses it misses,

and you just focus on the work and in that way you know you'll have your share just quantitatively statistically if you make you know by the time I'm finished making

films if I have decent longevity you know I should be able to make maybe 50 films and if I make 50 films just percentage wise with a lot of

averages. Yeah, the law of average. You know, some of them are going to be good. Do you, are there any scenes that stand out

to you, not films, but scenes in your career that really either even matched what was in your mind or exceeded your own vision? I mean, just to throw that out, some of my favorites,

I mean, the scene along the send and everyone says, I love you, is transcendent, the Manhattan, there are a handful. I mean, for you, are any that match

what you were hoping to achieve or exceeded it? Yeah, There are scenes that worked for me, the scene in Blue Jasmine with Kate Blanchett blew up and lost her sanity, lost her cool. It was a scene that worked for me very well. And yes, there have been scenes that I do recall that were. There were some scenes in Vicki Christina, Barcelona, that worked very well, some romantic moments and that that worked well for me.

Individual scenes over the years I've enjoyed. I just haven't liked the films, but I've enjoyed... There are moments at least. Yeah, I've enjoyed individual moments where they come off, you know, and I think to myself, God, that the actor is so good there, and it's better than I had imagined. You know, the scene where Jonathan Reese Myers is flirting with Scarlet at the ping pong table.

That was always a great scene. You know, people don't realize. She was only 19 years old, and she did that picture. And she got off the plane, having slept all night coming from the United States, came right from the plane to the set. and did the scene and was great

I had never worked with her she had never worked with me had no conversations about anything and she came right from me Naomi watched it the same thing she came on Toll Dock Stranger she had the hardest scene to do of all her scenes

I never never met her I never spoke a word to her and she came on the set and just simply didn't speak to me, say hello, and did the scene full of emotion, and I guess if you're talented and professional, you can do that. I don't want to get ahead of ourselves, but the end of next year will be your 80th birthday.

End of next year. Yeah, and December of 2015, correct? I'll be 79 this December and 80 next to 70. So big plans for a gala 80th birthday. You strike me as somebody that will not end up. entertain something with balloons or pomp and circumstance. No, no, no, no balloon. No, it's no achievement.

It's no, it's not, it's not a good thing, first of all, because you're getting older. And I'm hoping, but this is purely a hope based on, is that there's longevity, you know, there's longevity in my family. Right. And so I'm hoping that it rubs off on me, but there's no guarantee of that. Lastly, in our remaining moments, can I just run through some rapid fire things? kind of like quick answers if you have any answers

to any of these random questions for me do you have an email address? No. Have you ever seen a movie by Michael Bay? Transformers movies. He did bad boys, pain and gain. I'm sensing a no.

I have not. Pros and cons on scooping a bagel. Do you believe in scooping a bagel out or do you need a bagel? I don't eat bagels. Really? I never liked them. Wow.

Do you have a driver's license? I do, but I haven't driven in, I would say, 50 or 60 years. Do you have one treasured piece of movie memorabilia? Is there anything in particular that has sentimental value? Memorabilia. Yeah, from your own movies, or? No, I have no photos, no clippings, no memorabilia. I don't save any of that.

And last two for you. If you could reshoot any of your films from the beginning, is there one that you would go back and want another crack at? probably September I shot it twice I was going to say you wanted a third crack

I think if I could do it a third time I could get it third time's the charm And finally Do you think the New York Knicks are going to win a championship in either of our lifetimes Oh yes

Yes it's certainly in your life But I do think I do think if I'm lucky Maybe in my lifetime too There you go Melo's back So there's hope Yeah, I think that's a very good thing

I think that he's great and that the Knicks were very lucky to get him and that if they didn't have him last year they would have won maybe in a single digit We've made history here today This is Woody Allen's first podcast I don't know if you realize what you just did your first podcast Really? I don't know what a podcast is

Well, you did it Congratulations on that And thank you so much for your time honestly It's been such a treat Thank you, sir Goodbye, summer movies, hello fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James.

We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Chalemay playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos' Bugonia. Dwayne Johnson's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuess's return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about two.

Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2, and Edgar writes, The Running Man starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.