Happy Sad Confused - Wyatt Russell

Episode Date: March 31, 2021

"Happy Sad Confused" loves a good family dynasty and on this episode Josh welcomes not only previous guest Kurt Russell's son, Wyatt, but his grandchild! Ok, said newborn just cries a little but that's still 3 generations of Russells in our book and we'll take it. Wyatt joins Josh to talk about his transition from hockey to acting and now superhero status as he dons the iconic Captain America suit in "The Falcon and the Winter Soldier"! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! And listen to THE WAKEUP podcast here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot? What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on, none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now. Today on Happy, Said Confused, Wyatt Russell, from being a part of Hollywood royalty to playing Captain America.

Hey, guys, I'm Josh Harrow. It's welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Been covering this show a lot, and it's a worthy one, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Of course, I love all things MCU, and this series has been a treat. to watch unfold. We had Emily Van Camp on Happy Say I Confused a couple weeks back. I had Sebastian Stan and Anthony Mackey on Stir Crazy just the other week. And now pleased that this has given me an opportunity to get to know Wyatt Russell for the first time on Happy, Say I Confused.

Of course, Wyatt is the son of Hollywood royalty, Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell. It doesn't get any cooler better than that. We of course talk a little bit about that. And, you know, that's quite a mantle to live up to as a young actor and why it certainly was aware of that growing up, not pursuing acting in his early years, instead going in a different direction, really pursuing hockey and being a great hockey player by all accounts. And unfortunately, his career was cut short. In recent years, he's turned to acting and has found success, you know, some up and downs in the early years, but now really seemingly finding a groove with lodge, 49, which was his show on AMC for a couple seasons. He started Overlord a couple years back. He was in Everybody Wants Some, directed by Richard Link later. And as I said now, this is a big opportunity

for him and exciting for fans of Wyatt like myself to see him in this context playing the new Captain America. We don't know if we like him yet. I don't know. Some people have said he's got a punchable face in that costume. We kind of joke about how he looks in the costume in this conversation. But Wyatt's got a great attitude about his career, about his kind of place in the universe. He's fully aware of the baggage, good and bad. He's had growing up the son of these mega-watt movie stars. And I really enjoyed getting to know him in this chat. Briefly, chatted with him years ago for 22 Jump Street, and then a couple years back, I saw him when they first announced Falcon and the Winter Soldier at D-23, that big, like, Disney X-Eum.

They do every few years. But, yeah, like I said, this was a good excuse to get to know him a bit. He's a new dad, and, you know, you won't be able to see it, obviously, because this is just a podcast, but he was really pulling double duty on this. His wife was at the place, too, but it's just them. They don't have, like, help with their newborn. So he was scrambling a bit to keep the baby happy and fed, and his wife was, and it was very sweet to watch him in new dad mode, and I appreciate Wyatt.

balancing it all for 45 minutes to, to chat with me on this silly show, even as he had to, you know, negotiate being a good dad, which he clearly is, and he's clearly very happy. So happy for Wyatt and happy for his career and his personal life. Also, I should mention, we do dip into the comfort movies discussion. As always, he decided on a John Hughes movie. He went planes, trains, and automobiles. surprisingly our first John Hughes entry on Happy Second Fuse for the comfort movie category. You'll learn why Wyatt really loves this one.

And I don't know. I always find it very illuminating what the actors and filmmakers choose as their comfort films. So I think you guys will enjoy this chat. Other things to mention, let's see. Oh, there's a cool new interview I've got coming up on MTV News I conducted with Millie Bobby Brown, talking about, you know, Godzilla versus Kong, but really, that's just the tip of the iceberg. This is a bit of an in-depth discussion about her, again, fascinating circumstances in her young wife.

She's just 17, but in the last five, six years since bursting on the scene in Stranger Things, you know, was she like one of the top, like, 100 most famous people in the world? Maybe? I don't know. She's got a bizarre existence, and that's a tough road to handle for any. let alone somebody going through their teen years, yet I think Millie's doing really great with it, and I'm really excited that she's both making cool new work inside Stranger Things and outside of Stranger Things. She had that big success with the Noah Holmes. She's got a couple, more than a

couple, a bunch of projects cooking as a producer and as a star. And more importantly, you know, seems to understand, you know, the challenges, but also understands like, you know, she wants to be a teenager. She wants to just be a normal kid. And I hope we can all give her space to do that and to live her life and not, you know, drive these young stars insane with the expectations, the unrealistic expectations we put on them. We should let them screw up a little bit in front of us and make bad choices like we all did. It's, I can only imagine what it's like to be someone like Millie Bobby Brown at that very pivotal age in this crazy time of social media.

But anyway, that conversation is on MTV News. That's dropping any day now. And I really enjoyed chatting with Millie, as I always do. So look out for that one. Not much else to say. Those are the big things. I hope you guys are having a good, you know, Passover or Easter, whatever you're celebrating now. I had the opportunity to get together with some of my family that I haven't seen in a while

thanks to, you know, the fact that my mom's vaccinated. I'm vaccinated. You know, this is a nice time that we're starting to open up our worlds a little bit and come back to some semblance of normalcy. We're not there yet. I'm not running into movie theaters quite yet, but that time is also coming soon and maybe some travel. You know, I'm eyeing all of the quote-unquote normal things and anxious and hopeful that we're all going to be able to get there very soon. So, anyway, on that optimistic note, I hope you guys enjoy this chat with Wyatt Russell. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to Happy Second Fused, Spread the Good Word, and enjoy me and

cut him some slack as he tries to negotiate, taking care of a baby and a baby host like me. Two babies for the price of one. Poor Wyatt. Enjoy this chat. How's it going? It's going all right. right man i i appreciate taking the time especially given um yeah life that must be a little bit different these last few months for you congratulations man thank you so much and yeah it's like

it's it's incredible in every way and also like you know impossible i yeah at the same time so you've summed up parenthood in in 20 seconds right there um yeah so um you know this is uh congratulations on the new show. We haven't talked much. I doubt you would remember, but I think I talked to you for 22 Jump Street, of all things, way back when. Oh, wow. And so it's kind of a trip to talk to you now as kind of things are really, you know, I've obviously been following your career a lot in the last few years, and it's exciting to see you get all these cool new opportunities. I'm curious, talk to you a little bit about where Falcon and Winter Soldier began for you, because I remember I saw you guys, I saw you and Emily, actually, at D23, like a year and a half, two years ago.

You guys even shot anything then? Like, what was that experience just? No. We didn't try to. Well, it all started our interview on 22 Jump Street. That's where it began. That's where it all began. We hadn't shot anything.

I barely knew what the character was, what it was going to be. They don't tell you anything, you know. So I went to that, to that exposition or, I don't know, what do you even call that? What do you call it? What do you call it, like, convention? I don't know, whatever it is. And they were kind of just like, it'd be really nice if you can come or introduce your character. I knew the name of it.

I had like researched online to the extent of what Wikipedia is. You had the Wikipedia entry, basically, yeah. That's literally what I had. And, and also, if anybody who doesn't follow Marvel can follow the way. Wikipedia version of the it's like impossible I was like wait what like these like 19 different worlds and nothing makes sense that it's all it's all like presupposes that you know what's happening in the Marvel universe even when you try and research the character on Wikipedia so yeah it was truly you have

like that chart you're like you're like the detectives in seven and just like you're like you have string on a board connecting all the dots of yeah and and none of them make sense even when you're connecting the right dots yeah so It was ultimately very confusing, so I didn't, the 10 minutes I spent Googling it was more than enough, I was like, well, I'm going to get a script and it's going to be in there too, so I'll just wait. That's pretty much what I had at that Disney thing where I went out and waved everybody and pretended like I know what I was doing. You did a good job. Well, you could just also just say, sorry, I can't say anything as opposed to I don't know anything right now. Right, exactly.

How much, how much of the last few years, I mean, like, invariably, the last 10 years of my conversations with actors has been like 40% has been about, so what's the comic book movie you're doing? What's the comic book TV show you're doing? Like, how have you done a ton of these kind of like auditions for comic book properties prior to getting this one? I didn't. I always stayed away from it because it didn't, it wasn't something I liked doing. Also, if you're going to do comic book movies, you want to do them with the best companies, Marvel is. the best. So you get these ones where it was like, you know, kind of like, in my opinion, they were like, you know, there's like kind of shitty characters. It just didn't like, and it's didn't like them. They were like, they're doing comic books for the sake of doing comic books because it was known to be something that could make money and you, you know what I mean? And this was something that I kind of, to be honest, in the beginning, felt a little bit the same because it was like, oh, you're, okay, now they're just moving it to a different platform and what and then but then they were like oh no it's it's not that we're not just like

trying to crank out a money making machine although it is or we're not just trying to do that we're trying to create the the same quality on that we have in movies in TV right and what was cool about that was all the same people all the same creatives were working on it so movies is the people you're working with in my opinion that's like that's it you can get do something with an iPhone, you do it with Steven Spielberg and like Roger Teakins. It's probably going to look pretty cool. Totally. You know, and so the same goes for this kind of stuff. It's like you have the, you have all the stunt teams, you have all the actors, you have all the directors and the producing creatives and everybody. So I knew that it's going to be as good as Marvel can do it. And if

you're going to take your bet, you do it with Marvel. And, you know, I think, I haven't seen, I haven't seen all the episodes. I've only seen one. the beginning of one and I but but you can tell it's like yeah it's all there you don't want to get on set and realize like wait looking at your costume like oh they ran out of money I have the underruised captain that is not what you want that is really not what you want more than that for me it was like the stunt things like you don't want to get to set and be like oh you didn't get the that the the okay like that kind of going to not but no that everything was you know

know a grade is it true though in reading up on on you did you way back when was like your first audition for the first captain america it was like a first edition i had gotten i'd gotten done playing hockey i went out on an audition it wasn't in my opinion i don't think it was an auditioning you to actually make the move to do you know what i mean to like do the movie we're auditioning you to see if you're any good or not got it at the at the at acting. And it was an audition for Captain America. I'm sure they had already figured out that they wanted. Oh, fuck. My baby's crying. Hold on that. Okay. For those listening, Wyatt is now doing double duty as dad of the year. That's not Wyatt. That's his child, just for the record.

I'm sorry, but my wife's in the shower and I don't want to blow the interview. This is the first for Happy Second Fused. I've done, I've gone through a lot of iterations of this podcast, but this is an exclusive. Thank you. Now technically, I was just going to say, I've had your dad on the podcast. Now technically, I've had three generations of your family on the podcast now. Oh, what was the? Oh, yeah, right, right, right. I was just say, did you interview my grandfather?

And I'm like, I know, I'm holding my child. We were talking about, oh, yeah, your initial somewhat kind of sort of audition for the original cap. So you feel like they were just kind of seeing if you had chops. Yeah, I think that it was more like, can this guy act? is he like is he good at all should I bring him back on other stuff

is sort of what it was in your own mind how did you do on that initial one I think it was okay I mean honestly what I it was I literally just got done playing hockey 10 days ago

or maybe like maybe maybe three weeks ago and I had gone to Egypt with my with my hockey friends and Charmel Sheik and I had contacted my agent who had contacted me

maybe a year before he'd seen me in a movie that I did for friend for a friend as a favor right and and it was like there's that guy of representation type thing it was this movie called high school it's like no but i'm a hockey player and maybe i'll do commercials well we don't really do commercials and it's like okay well i'm i'm done this is my life this is not what i do but thanks for the interest right a year later i call and i'm like i'm hurt

you know i don't know what i'm going to do does that offer still stand and he's like yeah basically here you know you go and you can read for people uh they're going to be interested in if you're any good or not and you know no one knows so i had a couple things that had done that i had i could put a reel together just for fun for friends that were like you know semi-professional things where they had shot on a camera that looked good i got to play like this doubting tom the that version of modern day doubting thomas which was kind of funny and like kind of work and it was fun to do and so i got to put a couple things together to show cast and directors before i walked in the door and uh so she she had seen some stuff and said yeah bring him in

he might be right who knows and for me it was like okay i'd just come from live pro sports it's a very different feeling than walking into an audition room with like one person where you got like two or three chances to get it right and I just didn't feel the the pressure of which I would come to feel later on but that first one when you're like I don't know what I'd sit here and read the lines yeah okay you had nothing to lose yeah yeah yeah it was like and that's the way I think that that all has always worked to my benefit knowing that when I was playing hockey like I used to get really crazy nervous you know like fucking super nervous puking and because I wanted it so bad.

You know, like, I wanted it so fucking bad to be a hockey player. It was my identity and I wrapped up in it. So when I didn't have him, I'm doing an interview with him. He was crying, so I went and got him. This is Josh. Hi, Josh. Hi. How's it?

You want to take him? I'm sorry. I tried to put him on. No, no, no. But then I got him. I know. I kind of forgot as well. Sorry, I totally like, in the midst of,

insanity all good man thanks so we i'm curiously as you got so i understand so sorry early days of like of kind of that that that freedom that you feel but then when you start to get invested in acting now do you get more nervous as the years go by do you like put yeah you know what i mean yeah that was that was what i learned playing sports was oh don't you can't want anything too bad you just can't You got to go in and you got to give it the best because you can hear the baby cry. You got to do the best that you can, but you can't, like, your life simultaneously has to depend on it. Yeah. But also it has to not matter at all.

You know, like, you have to see the bigger picture always. And it was always difficult for me to see the bigger picture with hockey because my identity was so wrapped up in it. It was like, well, if I'm not this, then what am I? You know, and I'm just like these people's son. That was sort of how it always played out for me. And once I had sort of conquered that in hockey, I played professional hockey, I got to a point where I'm like, oh, no, you just work your hardest for you.

It doesn't, you don't give a fuck what anybody else think, sorry. Yeah. You do the best that you can. But if I'm waking up every day and going like, no, I know where my sixth gear is because I've found it. And, uh, and that's, that's how I am going. to get to where I want to go in my life. Then when I transitioned to film and TV,

I did it where it was like, well, I'm not doing this for you. Like, I'm not doing this for anybody else but me now. Like, I don't give a fuck what I cast and director thinks. I don't care what I'm just going to do it for me. If you like it, then you're going to like it. If you don't like it, then you're not going to like it. But I'm not going to live in this world anymore of, you know,

oh, please, can I, I hope that, you know, do you enjoy the things that I'm bringing you? it's like the that that day was over and it's like that's very hard for people to get to and there's a lot of people you when it was said to me when I was playing hockey they'd give me that advice and like don't worry about it so much like hard easy for you to say right it's like well dude if you don't get there I'm sorry I can't can't help you but you're going to live a very long difficult road if you're going to continue to feel that way and so finally once I got over that it was like you know my my my my My difficulty came when I got shit right off the bat.

It was like, you know, a few things. Boom, boom, boom. And I'm like, got it, easy. This is over. I'm talking, this is awesome. It's so easy. And then a year and a half went by and it was like a desert. There was nothing.

It was like horrible. This is after the aforementioned Jump Street. So you have a couple rolls out right off the bat. No, no, no. This is before Jump Street. Before Jump Street. Okay, got it. Yeah, yeah.

This is before Jump Street. So I had gotten like, I was an alien. and I got like a law and order and I got like these things that you get you know like everybody knows once you get one law and order you're all set for life one order you're fucking made I was like why isn't this working for me

law and order is the biggest show in the history television Dick Wolf should put me in everything I no it wasn't like that it was just that like oh okay I'm gonna get jobs right I'm on the path like people like what I'm doing I guess

I have no idea what I'm doing that they like, but I'm getting the job. So that's good. And try to keep getting the jobs. And so I went, yeah, I guess it must have been a year and a half before I met this director named Jim Nicol. And as I was going into that, I was like, I was realizing I had fallen back into the, into a rut of trying to now be something.

for somebody because you get affected by the business that everybody's that you start listening to everybody's advice you start listening to all the other poisonous shit that enters your mind and you know you you want to be you you want to do great things you want to make great art you start to realize what kind of artist maybe you want to be whether that you consider yourself an artist or not you you you start to run these these these things over and over in your mind and they start to infiltrate your mind in a negative way my opinion when you think about it too much and I was and so at the end of the day uh what what I did was after this year and a half Jim had come with a script that people were like I don't know it's

kind of weird like this family who's of cannibals and I was like I read it I love it I think that I watched this movie steakland he did for like a hundred grand dude's unbelievable what you can do like he's going to make a good movie. I was like, okay. So I went in and I just told Jim the truth because I was right about at the time where I wouldn't say I was going to quit, but I'd say I got six months in me, you know? After two years and not getting anything, it's like, dude, I want to see the writing on the wall before other people do.

And I was getting to that point where I was like, I think I'm good. I just don't think that what I'm doing lends itself to an audition process at all. And, and so I decided to tell Jim the truth, which was like, I, I, I think I'm a good, I think I'm a good enough actor. I don't think I'm a fucking genius, but I think I'm all right. And I think I'm terrible at auditioning for some reason. I think something about me or something is there, I used to get the note, like, I don't know, kind of boring. And like, you know, it would be like, fucking script's boring. I don't know, like, you know, I, it's kind of boring.

I, you know, I'm just reading it like a normal and very, I want to be natural and normal. And an audition process is really difficult for the producers and creatives because you're watching people trick you into believing and feeling something without anything. You're acting in a phone booth. So you need to be able to see through people who make you feel something so cool, but then they get on set with the costume and the clothes. And all of a sudden it's like, double. And you're like, well, now it's like a hat and a hat. It's not that good. And I always thought, I want to take the road, like sort of the low road, and be normal and natural and real.

But in order to do that, you need to be able to interact with people in a real way. And sometimes when you're at casting director's office, not usually the good ones or the great ones, in my opinion, you get a lot of people who are interviewing a lot of people. Yeah. And they're tired. You need to stand out. It needs to be the big one. Yeah. Yeah.

you know and like you got someone reading with you on the other side and they're not you know looking up and they're just reading off the page and it's like well how am i i now you're just asking me to do a preconceived version of what i've been living with for a week and a half in my head which is weird and horrible there's been no interaction with anybody and i it's a test it's a horrible way of knowing if someone's any good or not but you have to do it and you know you I get that. Jim, I basically had this conversation with Jim, and he was like, I totally know what you mean.

Like, I totally agree. And he was like, how would you want to do an audition? I was like, well, if it were me, I would shoot it like I was shooting the scene so that I can see someone's nuances and how they were. And do the nuances work? And I showed up the next day, I left, he's like, I hope you can act. I like you as a person, and he had his camera, and he had, it was with Riley Keough, and she's an unbelievable actress.

And, you know, so that was part of it, too. It's like, you know, I got the benefit of that. Yeah. And we were doing the scene. It was like shooting the scene, but it was in an office, but he had different angles. He had a reverse, and he wanted to cut it together to see what they, looked like in the movie not like in this weird version of a of a test that like isn't ever going to even come close to what you're looking at the movie and she was so great and he was so great

and it was like it worked and i you know we got i got the part and that movie and that experience changed my life in terms of how i looked at making movies who i wanted to make movies with how i wanted to make movies because they're the way they did it is like that's how everybody should make the movie. It's so funny the way you put that. I'm going to think of that in my further conversations about auditions going forward because it's like, yeah, it's like testing a different skill set. It's like 100%. It's related, sure, but it's not acting. It's like it's not acting. You could give a gold medal in auditions, but the best officer is not the best actor. A hundred percent. It's really hard to, it's hard to disseminate, you know, between the

two. It's difficult because, you know, that person made me feel something, but it's like, but that person feels real. So is that person going to be boring? And, you know, it's really hard. It's a really hard process to judge that off of. So to take me back a little bit. So growing up, you know, I know about the hockey obsession. I'm just curious, like your appreciation and love of film, we all grow up loving movies and pop culture, obviously you're going up with two ginormous acting, you know, legends in the house. I assume you're on some sets growing up. I mean, did that change, knowing how the sausage was made,

seeing sort of two actors talk about just their life in that business. Did that change your appreciation of film? Or do you love and appreciate film just as John Cue Public? There's sort of two different things. So the appreciation and love of film didn't come from being on the movie set. That actually, for me, came much later. later in my life, the understanding of what life on a movie set was like was obviously sort of ingrained in us as that's what life sort of was.

It's just a workplace. It's a very fun workplace. It's a circus. It was much more of a circus atmosphere in the 80s and 90s than it is now. It's very corporate and professional now in ways that it probably wasn't back then good and bad, in my opinion. And what it was was, I remember it's the same kind of thing

where I went to a Washington Capitals camp when I was 17, and I remember seeing Chris Bork, who's Ray Bork's son. And Ray Bork's obviously one of the best defensemen to ever play the game. And Chris Bork, he was short, he was not big. He wasn't like what you'd look at and just go,

player and but the way he carried himself in the locker room was one of I I belong here not because I'm I'm elitist or I'm delusional and my dad was Ray Bork and all that but just I grew up in this locker room I know everything is I walk around like I've been here a million times because I have nothing bothers me and so for me it was a bit it's a bit like that where when I got onto a set it was like oh no like this is very comfortable for me because I've been here my whole I have been here my whole life I grew up on sets so the cameras and the and the action that could be very daunting for someone who was not hadn't ever experienced that before uh it just wasn't like that for me because it was like oh yeah like I know exactly what this

stuff is. So it was just, that was, that was a benefit I had for sure and going into this business, for sure. You're just not, it's just in your senses. You already, you've already experienced it. The love of movies, because when you're making a movie, it's so difficult to, especially when you're a kid and you're just around it. You're just seeing the machine work. You're not really, you know, watching people like love movies. You're mostly seeing people complain about the movies were on. And later on, everyone was like,

it's such a great film. Like, I knew it was going to be fucking great. Like, no, you didn't. You thought it was going to be shitty when you were there. It was a job, and you were trying to get home. Yeah, exactly. It was late, and you were pissed off that they didn't have a vegan option at the crap service table, and you wanted to walk off set. I remember.

You know, but... But we were a family. We love this. Oh, yeah, exactly. It was such a family. Oh, my God. The amount of Sometimes I've heard that when I'm like, you're such a liar. Sometimes it's true. But the love of film came when I got hurt playing hockey and realized that I might not do this for the rest of my life. Like, this might end.

So I need to figure out what else do I love. And I'd always rejected it because it was like, I don't want to do this. It's not who I am. I'm this other person. I'm making my life in this thing. I'm not a actor or I'm not even in this family. Like, I'm a hockey player and I do something different. Once I realized like, well, that's stupid.

That's just sort of like you being rebellious and trying to make your own way. I really do love movies. I love movies. So what I did was I joined like a USC summer film program at, like, I think it was like, you know, three months. And we made four short films, silent short films. And it was like a class. And I was with people who had, never normally been with, like people who were English majors. No one played sports. It was the only

athlete in there. And I had the greatest time making movies. And in this class, I really did bring out in this idea that, no, I do love doing that. There's a directing course, but you kind of did everything, you know, helped other people with their projects and that kind of thing. And I really did love doing the stuff. Like, I loved it. Like, I loved making the movie. And, and, and, and And then when I got out of that, I realized, oh, no, you know, I really do like this a lot. So I think that what I'll do is I'll act because I know I can do that right away. Like directing is something or writing. It's a long process to get to that point.

And I was just out of playing hockey. I was like, I don't want to struggle another 10 years beating my head against a brick wall trying to get like a movie made. I just want to go make money right now. Like, I just want to go make money and have fun because I came from me. And like, it was a, at the end of my occupier, it was just like, you're beating your head against brick wall in, like, some weird European country getting hurt. I wanted to do something I was going to have fun doing. Right. And that's, and that's where it went.

It was just like, okay, let's go figure out something that you're going to enjoy. Of course, all the same shit you've come across on the way. But it was just a little easier to deal with because I already kind of done it. What about the, your dad and mom and your dad, for dudes of a certain age, including myself, your dad stands as like this avatar like he like they're a handful of roles he played you know growing up jackburn snake fliskin like these are these are like i literally at my office have a big trouble in little china you know poster hanging over my desk um do those roles hold different or same meaning for you or is it hard to enjoy the thing and escape from me they probably are yeah

they probably are different for they probably hold different meaning than other people i like I love those movies. But what I love about them is I love that what it was was my dad doing things that he loved to do. He did not do them because they were going to be hits. They weren't hits. Big Trouble in a little China was a bomb.

The thing was a bomb. They weren't hits. But what they were were creatively super interesting world, which he wanted to be a part of bringing to life that that was exciting for him and it was fun for him and it was challenging and it was critical thinking problem solving type things for him he never did things just because yeah and that was one of the things I think that's probably the biggest thing I've taken away from from his career and my

mom's career both of them is like they didn't do things just because they did things because they saw potential in them to be good right and what makes him this sort of Like, and I love seeing it because it's this, you know, my dad's a very humble person when it comes to, I mean, he's humble and he's not, but in different ways that you'd, you'd know. He's, he's, he's the greatest guy in the world. He's totally like, my hero. He's, he's all that stuff, right? But the movie aspect, it's fun just to see my dad, I laugh, my, he's, I think he's fucking hilarious. And Yu's Car's is probably my favorite movie.

Great one. of his, that him and Bob Zamekis together, that type of comedy and type of storytelling and whatever that mix was for me was, that was my favorite. And then Zemeckis, with your mom

and death becomes her, another one of my favorites. Yeah, another amazing, another great movie. Again, a movie that had some interesting, really interesting stuff to it that hadn't before been, you know,

stomach and all that. There was just interesting things that you hadn't seen a lot of. And that was what for both of them that I think holds up and why people are still interested in watching the thing or why they're still interested in Big Children of China because it wasn't some, you know, it wasn't some money grab. You know, none of them were. And they're always interesting and And they always worked so hard on them. My dad, I remember doing Tombstone, probably five or six. And he would come home every night. And now everybody knows that, like, you know,

he basically directed the movie, right? So he would come home. And I remember he'd put me to like, you know, he's got me too. I was like, maybe I was like, yeah, I was like six years old. And so I'd sleep on this, like, couch. in this like area of the hotel or staying at like a motel and some near what Tucson or whatever and and then he would I'd go to bed but I'd you know be up looking at

him and he was at the table in the room this was back in the days when you could smoke cigarettes and hotel hotel room and he'd be smoking cigarettes at the hotel at the table going writing that is it like three and the morning after they just finished and he's got to go back to work the next day at like three in the afternoon so he's going to stay up and write for another two hours go to bed at five so that was that that's that's who my dad is that that's why you like kurt russell movies he cares because yeah he cares and that's what that's the thing that i think now um that's what i try to do you know i if i see something that i feel like i can help and not just to do it to say it to say it

or just to be annoying or just to be a contrarian, if I can help, then I'll offer it. And it's because I want it to be good and I want it to be interesting. And if that works that way, then it's going to be a better project or a better movie. And that's what, that's,

that's the love of film that I got was sort of through that osmosis, but things like that. So when I asked you for a comfort movie, you didn't go Freudian and go to used cars or Death of Cums or one of your parents' films. You went to another all-time classic. Maybe I think it's the first John Hughes film,

surprising, when someone has selected for a comfort movie. Oh, really? Yeah, I know, kind of shot. I mean, Ferris Bueller would definitely be one of mine off top of my head. But yours is different. Tell us your comfort movie and why you chose it. Planes, trains, and automobiles is my comfort movie. It's, it's, it's, like, has to check some boxes, I think, right?

Like, it's got it every time it's on, you got to pretty much, like do that thing where we're like oh i'm watch i've been watching this for 45 minutes i didn't even plan on walk on i planned on flipping buy i've seen it 15 times yes the space not 15 you want collapses when you're watching yeah exactly and everything folds into the into the fray while i'm sitting on my couch that that movie to me also my wife i was we were talking about it with me i was talking about my wife i'm like oh because there are a lot you know used cars is definitely one of them but it was like what's a that's not a comfort movie though that's just that's just the what and she was like well we love playing trains and automobiles and i was like oh my god totally

you're right and we have that she's john candy i'm steve mark like in our relationship we've she always brings up she's like we should remake your plane strains and automobiles like that would actually be funny she she and i have she i just love that it's such a fucking absurd movie. It's so absurd. And when Steve Martin goes off on John Candy in the hotel

room, that part to me is the genius of the movie. It's kind of the genius of any John Hughes movie, but it's the genius of the movie where Steve Martin is laying into John Candy for all of the things crushing him. All of the things that you know, like

he goes on and on, on and you're laughing your ass off and john candy is also simultaneously making you just ripping your heart out so it's these like this it gives you a it gives you this dichotid this feeling of a dichotomy when you're watching a movie that is so funny i'm having such a blast listening to steve martin rip into somebody and i'm watching john candy rip my heart out yeah at the same time and that that type of thing for me and it's always been the holidays so it's like one of those holiday movie for you're constantly, you know, you got to watch Plans Trains Automobiles. But yeah, I mean, there's a lot about that movie.

It's interesting. It gives me comfort. No, it makes sense. Everything you're saying. I mean, for context for folks that are rusty on their planes, transit automobiles, came out Thanksgiving in 87, 1987, of course, written and directed by John Hughes. You mentioned, of course, it's anchored by Steve Martin and John Candy. First, just, I mean, I looked up like, you know, we all know the John Hughes filmography, but

like to look at like this specific time period for him so check this out from 1984 to 1987 leading into this movie this is what he did this is a pretty small period of time right directed 16 candles the breakfast club weird science and ferris beelers day off leading into this movie in those four years also in that time he wrote pretty and pink and some kind of wonderful that's so crazy like you know it's so crazy about that now this is again, I don't know how this has changed or what's changed or this is the corporate structure versus whatever that studio system was that they were in that. You can't do, you couldn't do that now. Like no director is doing that now in three or four years making those making those

kind of movies back to back to back. The machine doesn't move that quickly now. Yeah. The machine doesn't move that fast because everyone's got to have like a perfect answer for how am I going sell this or how am i and it it poses an interesting question where it's really like well where does this where are we going with this how does this work because if you can't get the reps and like the roger corbin uh you know school of movie making yeah they got reps and you made 30 40 50 movies you're going to make 30 40 50 movies you're going to end up being a pretty good filmmaker at some point or make something interesting and if you're any good at all you're really going to be good it's your mate you're doing it you're working you're not just in your head thinking about it

thinking that you're a genius and and you know then when it comes out it's like you're you know it's amazing that they could make these movies that quickly also amazing he i mean i think i'd heard this before but apparently he was some kind of savant in terms of writing like he would these writing outbursts would come out of him he i don't know if this is you know hyperbole or not but supposedly he wrote this script, 145 page script, by the way, in about three days or five days, depending on what you read.

So I don't know if he was on something or what was going on, but he, something, yeah, was in a fertile, creative period in this time. Adderall had just come in, the,

yeah, the invention of Adderall coincided with exactly. Yeah, it might not be a surprise that it was kind of all confined to like a 10-year period for John Hughes,

who left us too soon. There's, of course, been talk about remakes along the, along the way. I mean, even as recent as last year, there was talk of, sorry, not you and your wife, but Will Smith and Kevin Hart are potentially doing a release. It's like the same. We're the same. Yeah, basically. You two go into the same audition room they go into. Yeah, exactly. Oh, you guys are here, yeah. Give me tough. Give me a tough choice. Exactly. Good idea or bad idea. I mean, we love Will Smith and Kevin Hart, but is this a bad idea to give us another shot, you think?

or, I mean, everything is fair a game for re-making. Everything is kind of a bad idea, in my opinion, to give another shot. Yeah. But, you know, it's like, no, look, is it a good idea for a company to make money? And could it be funny? Like, yes, of course it could be.

But it's never, if you're ever going to go to that movie thinking, like, I'm going to have the same feeling like I had when John Candy and Steve Barber. It's like, that's totally, you're in totally different time periods, different world. I'd rather than see personally. I'd rather see a planes, trains, and automobiles type movie. Exactly, yeah.

Starring Will Smith and Kevin Hart. I want to do something, show me something different. Just a plot that somewhat, there's lots of planes, trains, and automobiles. You know, like, get him to the Greek is a planes, trains, and automobiles movie. Yes. But, you know, there's tons of them. But when they ream, they take these, like, big pieces of IP because they know they can, they can sell them. It's like, I don't know, okay, fine.

it's going to be no one's going to remember it exactly that's the weird thing is like it probably works in the room to sell it and to get it going but in reality it's like old people like you and me that care but like 15 and 20 year olds frankly don't care they don't care and by the way if it's amazing and super funny then we're both stupid idiots and are wrong you know

right no that's fair too so it's like so it's like hey if you go make a great movie it doesn't matter what you do you can go make remake citizen cane if it's fucking amazing then it's amazing you know it's like go give it your best shot do you do you wrestle with it and it seems like you have a good attitude about the whole thing in terms of like you were obviously very cognizant of the the odd circumstances in which you were you were born I mean we're all we all we're you know odd circumstances but yours are is a little bit more of a public one but I guess in terms

of wrestling with your acting choices like I would think there are impulses for casting directors to put you in the kinds of all the time associated with your dad do you feel like a you know an impulse to go in another direction or are you now like enough into your career where you can kind of do the Kurt Russell type of performance if there is one in a you know what I mean like yeah I think this is how just stupid the whole business is or I don't want to say that I mean it's I guess I guess I did so do but the like when I first started right everybody had this preconceived notion of what I was supposed to be like. Yeah, I looked like my dad. I played professional sports. My dad was an action star, whatever. Yeah. So then I'd go in and they'd go, I'd do the other thing.

We love it. It's so great. We just don't think that, we just don't think that he can be vulnerable. That was a note I got a lot, right? Like vulnerability. Like, I don't know, the vulnerability aspect of it. It's like, you just can't. And I was like, okay, I'm just getting this note that I can't be vulnerable a lot. I don't think that's a quality that I exude non-vulnerability or some sort of person that can't be vulnerable. But I, okay, that's what the, that's what the zeitgeist is giving me. So what should I do? So I started doing this thing. Again, this is tricks of auditioning. It's not acting. I started looking down and not making eye contact with the casting directors or the people. So I'd like look down and

say my line's like and I look away I wouldn't make eye contact great they loved it right okay so now you get some of these so mysterious he won't even we can't connect we won't even we love it yeah okay great so I got some parts I guess some parts is vulnerable people I think it's important to like you know you have to be able that that's a human emotion that as an actor you need to be able to portray right vulnerability that should be in the color out yeah that has to be there and and so I started doing that then couple that goes that goes by do I don't know how many movies three or four movies or shows whatever that like I play sort of a vulnerable guy because I was able to get the part then then I come back to do the stuff that I wasn't right for

because or that I wasn't getting because I was whatever and they're they're going yeah just I don't know if you can you know get it like he's like the vulnerability it's just kind of too much like i don't know if you can like get it to the point where i'm like what the fuck like these people are all crazy they're all like have preconceived notions of what i'm supposed to be everything's their brains are all jumbled because they think they already know me and and they don't have no idea also i don't have like instagram i wasn't a public person i'm not a public person i'm just and i always want to just be an actor i like falling into different things and people i love them people are like you're that guy from holy shit i didn't know that that's what's fun so that part of it

did weirdly work against me and then work for me and certain like it works for you where you get to go in the room and it works against you and they're like but you're supposed to be like this you're like but i'm fucking not like that so i i don't know how to change it for you unless you unless i get apart and then you can see me as whatever you want to see me at after you think that I'm like the person that I am in the movie, you know, like that's like what it was for a while. And I don't mean to be like me, you know, I don't want to be like that.

I'm very grateful for everything that I've been able to get. But at times you're like, how can you, how can you be so, you know, whatever? So that aspect of it was, you know, a little bit frustrating. And then I got to the point where I had done enough good stuff enough people had said like oh we really liked you in this or lodge 49 was a really different show i'd done enough different things that were of my right sensibility you know lodge 49 is very me like that's very my sensibility it's not me as a person at all i'm not dud but the way jim gabvin

wrote yeah the way he the way he he he interacts characters the world secret that's very my sensibility it was very unique i'd never seen another show on tv like it and i'll stand by that now it's one of the I'm so proud of it because it was I read it and I was like no one's putting this on TV and then they did and it was I got to do it I felt so lucky and so at this point now I'm just kind of like I'm 34 years old almost 35 you know it's one of the benefits of having kids it's like I don't give a fuck what you think at this point like I really don't care I'm just going to do the best that I can with the things that I like doing a few thing for them like my dad it's like great he's a great actor thank you and and uh but yeah you just

keep doing it and keep plugging down the road and things kind of like pan out as they pan out you know and i'm trying to force somebody's opinion of what it's like so so let's put a bow on this becoming full circle on falcon and winter soldier uh we as we speak um second episode about to drop uh we saw a little bit of a tease i saw your chin peeking out of a captain america costume that's about it in the first episode. There was the fucking best shit. I don't have Twitter or anything like that, but I have friends, obviously a bunch of friends do. And one of my friends sent me a picture of, you've got to have,

if you have Twitter and looked it up, you probably would have seen it. It's a picture of me and the helmet. And the helmet was always this thing and I was like, I fucking kind of hate the helmet. it you know like it's like i just it's like god i got to act with this thing on and it seems awkward and you know you're trying to and then and then and then you get used to it as you get in but i came out with that helmet on and you're trying to be the guy and do everything like okay cut end of the day and i go home you think god do i look fucking stupid like what do i look like i don't want to look myself in the mirror because i think i look stupid so and and someone on

Twitter, genius, some fucking genius on Twitter linked that photo of me and the Captain America helmet with the guy, the old man from up wearing the California helmet. And it is unbelievable. It is so spot on. Like I don't think I look like the guy from up, but from that angle and what it looked like, it was like, oh my God, it was, whoever did that should win an award. Peek into your future. That's amazing. I was like, also one of my favorite comfort movies.

Perfect. You don't cry in the first 20 minutes of that movie. Yeah, you have no soul. No soul, exactly. So what's to come, tease me a little bit on what's to come for your character. I mean, you can't make a Falcon and Winter Soldier show with a new Captain America without some conflict and some actions. So you mentioned the stunts.

You mentioned the scale. Did this feel like just making like a ginormous movie or running around the world? Give me a sense of... It just felt like, yeah, I mean, the biggest one for me was the stunts. Like the stunts, it is real deal. Those guys are make half a movie, in my opinion. They are unbelievable. They make you look so great.

And you do as much as you can, but you can only do so much, you know. That was the first time I'd ever really done anything on that scale. So that was the scale of things that was I was not used to, right, of the kind of preparation that it took to to make a Marvel movie. The flying around and doing all that stuff was great. We did a lot of it in Atlanta, shut down for the pandemic, went to Prague. It was, it was great that way, but it wasn't anything out of the ordinary. The thing that really stood out to me was the stunt performers and have. unbelievable. They were really incredible. So are you excited to see sort of how cool you look

in the finished product of when you're running around with a shield and doing God knows what? I don't know. I mean, I don't know if I'm going to, I'm torn on watching it, to be honest. I don't like had a bad experience a little while ago just watching myself or I used to be okay with it and then something happened. It's like so self-loathing came in and judgment thing. Not a much 49. Was it a citizen? No, no, no, no. No, it was, yeah, it was, yeah, it was just, it was something I just didn't, I realized while I was watching it,

I'm like, this isn't good for me, like I, yeah, I'm not learning anything about myself. I'm not learning what I should do or what I shouldn't do. Like, one, this is not what, this isn't helping me. And, and so I don't know if, uh, I'm gonna, well, I'll just take people's opinion because it's honestly better than my opinion. It's, I've realized that. I'm like, well, if everybody likes it, then it's probably good.

If everybody doesn't like it, then it's probably bad. I thought if we learned nothing else from this, this is all, it's all for yourself. Don't please others. That's what I mean. You're a walking contradiction. No, that's what I mean is that I don't want to have to, I don't even want to have to judge myself. I just want to go do it. And if everybody thinks it's bad, then I guess it was bad.

If everybody thinks it was good, then I guess it was good. I mean, it doesn't, it shouldn't have any bearing on how I feel about what I do. That's what I mean. And all of the time I spend watching myself, you start, you can't help but judge yourself. If you don't judge yourself, then I think you're a robot, you know, it's like, I thought, I'm pretty good at not judging myself too harshly in trying to see the bigger picture of what the movie was good or all that kind of stuff if it worked out. I'll probably end up watching it, you know, but it's like, after that like five minute like model, you're like, Yeah, fuck it. I'm going to go watch right now.

I'll let you go watch your own show. I'll let you go take care of your new baby. I appreciate the multitasking and this must be an exciting, but, you know, a lot going on in your household right now. And it's been really fun to get to know you, man. I really appreciate the time. Yeah, good to know you too, Josh, and I'll see you on the next one. Yeah, exactly.

All right, have a good one now, right. Okay, you too. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't. I should do this by Josh.

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