Happy Sad Confused - Yahya Abdul Mateen II, Vol. II

Episode Date: April 27, 2026

Yahya Abdul Mateen II was riding high the last time he was on the podcast, on his way to an Emmy win for WATCHMEN, shooting the AQUAMAN and MATRIX sequels and more. But what came next was totally unexpected, disappointment and burn out, and thankfully a re-awakening on the stage. Here Yahya talks about it all including his triumphant return to TV with WONDER MAN and MAN ON FIRE. SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! UPCOMING EVENTS! 5/3 -- Charlie Cox in NY -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠⁠⁠ 5/5 -- Stanley Tucci in NY -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 5/13 -- Matt & Ross Duffer in LA -- ⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠ 5/17 -- Billy Eichner in NY -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Don't miss what the movie blog calls something you need to watch. Saving those children is how we all go home. From binge all episodes exclusively on Paramount Plus. This is what I said. I said, this sounds like a great opportunity, but I only get one Marvel dollar to spend. That's what I said. I told him, I said, I only get one dollar to spend and I want to make sure that I spend it well. So that was really the question that I was asking him and I wanted to have that conversation with him to say, me saying yes is a huge gamble because I really, really, really like what you all do. So if this isn't the time for me to say yes, let me know because I will sit to the side and wait until it makes sense. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins.

Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the show, it's Yaya Abdul Mateen II with a look back at Wonder Man, a look forward with Man on fire, and much, much more. Hey guys, thanks as always for checking out the podcast. If you haven't already, you know what to do. Hit that subscribe button on YouTube or Spotify or however you're enjoying this podcast. 700 plus episodes, 12 years. There's something for everybody in the archives. So if you haven't dug into them, do yourself a favor.

Pick out your favorite actor, filmmaker. They're probably in the happy, say, confused archives. And a reminder, if you like what I do, if you want to support what I do, Patreon is your best friend and really mine too. helps us make more stuff over here. Patreon.com slash happy, sad, confused, get early access to every single episode. You get guest announcements. You get discount codes to all of our live events and we have a ton. You get autographed merch, all sorts of bonus content. Patreon.com slash happy, sad, confused. And we do have a bunch of live events, I should say, coming up, including May 3rd in New York

City with Charlie Cox, May 5th in New York City with Stanley Tucci, May 13th in Los Angeles with the Duffer Brothers, May 17th in New York City with Billy Eichner. And we have one more. I think we haven't announced yet. I'm not going to say it just yet. But that's enough. That's a lot. And more to come.

Okay, let's talk about the main event. It is Yaya Abdul Mateen, the second, his second visit to the podcast. The last time we chatted was 2019, and he had it all happening then, and he still does in a different way. Back then, it was a conversation about his role in Watchmen, one of my favorite series of all time probably, certainly in the last 10 years. And no spoilers, but Yaya has a very pivotal role in that series. We talked about that. In the last conversation, he was on the eve of doing the second Aquaman movie, of doing The Matrix. He had it all happening. He ended up winning an Emmy

for that role in Watchmen. And this is a really cool conversation today because it's fun to kind of come full circle and look back at where he was and where he is now. Some really eye-opening insights into to where he was coming off of that Emmy win and questioning himself and questioning whether what to chase and how to chase it and whether he needed a break. Really a candid conversation here about pulling out of a major role in Furiosa, the Mad Max sequel, prequel, however you want to call it. But thankfully, Yaya is in a great place now. He's had an amazing run on Broadway and Top Dog Underdog.

and now in television, two major shows. So you all know and love probably, like me, Wonder Man, one of the best Marvel shows, I think. Probably the best Marvel show, I would say, since Wanda Vision. He killed into that, as did Sir Ben Kingsley. He also has a new Netflix series out, Man on Fire. Yes, it is another adaptation of that story, the iconic film starring Denzel Washington, big shoes to fill, but Yaya is the man for the job. smart, confident, leading man, great actor, really fun conversation. I'm so thrilled he came back to the podcast for this chat.

So yeah, without any further ado, here it is. This is me and Yaya Abdul Mateen I, Jaya, welcome back to the podcast, man. It's been a long time. Thankfully, you've been very busy making it easy for me to have a chat with you today. There's a lot to catch up on. It's good to see you, man. It's good to be back with you. I'm sorry that we're not connecting in person in New York.

But honestly, for me, it's good because it reminds me my personal inadequacies as an adult male. I don't feel like a real functional human man next to you. Oh, get out of here, man. I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear it. Get out of here. So how long have you been in New York? We talked in 2019.

Were you living in this? I know you were shooting in the city then, but were you living here then? Yeah, I've been in New York since. I came to New York in the summer of 2015. Yeah, summer 2015. Okay, so why is New York the place for you versus L? You don't have to sell me on it. I'm a lifelong New Yorker, but tell me why it's for you.

This is where my stuff is, and it's kind of been that way. You know what I mean? I came here for the get down back in 2015. And I remember my teacher said, don't buy furniture. that was her her piece of advice for for everyone you know don't buy furniture because if you working you might be itinerant you might be moving you might exactly exactly that you know like a couple years out of school don't buy furniture and I didn't and New York and and it sort of worked that way it was good was great advice because I was bouncing all around

all around the globe really I was really fortunate you know to come out hit the ground running and then eventually I got some furniture and And now I'm here because this is where my stuff is. You know, relationships and things like that all, you know, as well. A lot of great things happened over the last 10 years. So for right now, I'm still in New York. Good. Okay.

Not that you needed more points with me, but that earns you special points with me. Yeah, yeah. So we're going to cover a lot today because you've got two, one recent show, one, like, brand new show, both of which I've been watching. I watched all Wonder Man. I've watched the first few of Man on fire, so we're going to catch up on that and a lot of things. So when you're out and about lately in Starbucks or whatever, are you getting more, Hey, Wonder Man, hey, Black Mantle? What are you getting lately for people that recognize you?

People really, really like Wonder Man. And, you know, that's the most recent thing. It's just been a great conversation out there. There's so many people who, you know, gravitate toward that project for all different types of reasons. You know, I have actors, musicians. directors, writers, these people, even outside of the business who just relate to just having dreams and relate to being counted out and, you know, being on that edge of figuring out whether

or not they're going to go forward or whether or not they're going to make a left turn. It's really nice. It's a really good energy out there right now. It's, you know, I'm not just saying this. It's my favorite Marvel series since the first one, since Wanda Vision. killed it. It's like, and I think, I think it shares some DNA in that in that, like, they both, like, if you look at it, you know, they're like, sure, they're superhero shows, but there's so much, I mean, Wanda Vision was all about grief and, and mental illness to a degree. And this show is,

is just, it's like, you know, it's a, it's a relationship, buddy, bromance, Hollywood satire disguised as a superhero show. And I think that's why it is, it is working. And I, and I have to say I'm so relieved, because I don't know how, like, it, in it you were, but like for those of us that cover this, you know, it was kind of sitting there for a while. We were like, when is it coming out? Yeah. Like, and you start to worry. You're like, what's, what's, something happened with Wonder Man?

And like, I mean, were you aware of that too? Were you like, I thought we nailed it, but why are they not pushing it out? Like, how aware were you kind of that? I mean, really that stuff was above my pay grade and it really wasn't my job to think about that. That's the, that's the honest truth about that. But the second thing in that was just a little bit of a lesson is just, Um, and this is actually came from Patrick Wilson. Um, Patrick Wilson when I was doing the first Aquaman, it was after I did Baywatch.

And he was asking me, uh, how I felt about the movie. And the movie had already come out. And it was like, my recollection was it was like moderately well received. And it was like sort of in the middle, sort of like right down the middle. You know what I mean? And, uh, I remember. telling him saying something like, uh, it was all right. Like is, is the answer that I gave him had more to do with the reception of the film as opposed to my experience. And he, and he saw that. And,

you know, I did now I'm two years out of school. I'm two, maybe, I'm two years into the business. And he's like, hey, don't make it a habit of, of like, assessing your experience based on how something performs. And I latched on to that and I had to go back and reflect and I was like, oh yeah, I actually had a really good time making that. So that's how it was. And it was the same thing for Wonder Man in this case. I didn't really think much about, you know, when are they going to put it out or like

why? What's taken so long? I had known that we had some stops and starts due to the strike, you know, the first time around it was the actor. I think the second time around it was the writer's strike, if I'm not mistaken. So we dealt with those things, so I knew that it was going to be a while. But I also knew that the thing that I was a part of, I was excited to give that away. It's funny.

I mean, first of all, I love Patrick. He's one of the good guys out there. I adore that guy. And that doesn't surprise me that has that kind of lesson to impart. But it also strikes me. because like I was listening back to our conversation way back when. And then I was listening to some recent conversations you've had. And I find it so fascinating.

And I love how honest you've been about this, kind of the journey you've been on through your career since. Because I talked to you at 2019. And it's all happening. Like you got, you're about to do Matrix. You've got Watchmen. Like, you're about to do Walkman 2. Like you are high as a kite.

You're so thrilled. You win the Emmy. You win the Emmy for Watchmen, as you should. I won the Emmy before the conversation? No, you hadn't. won the Emmy yet. But like you were about, you were on the way, right?

So you're there. And then I hear these conversations with you, like that you've recently had. And I find this so refreshing because I don't think most actors would say what you've said. You win the Emmy. And what does it do for you, Yaya? Oh, I mean, what have I said in my, in my interviews?

I probably, you're saying it didn't fulfill you. It didn't do anything in a way. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's consistent. And it's because look at what the world was at that time, man. I mean, it was, it was tough times in the world. Even aside from the pandemic, you know, there were some things going on in the world around the time where watchmen came out. And, you know, it was, it was, it was, it was, the world was changing.

And it was just challenging, it's an understatement, but it was challenging times. And then at that time in the height of the pandemic, you know, I won this award. I don't get to go to the, you know, to the, to the ceremony. So it's not like I was getting my pictures taken and meeting people and things like that. So I never really got the high of it. So the truth is that while I'm deeply, deeply appreciative of that that, that award, that award, which is right here, by the way. Actually, it's just coincidentally, it's just right here.

Just drop that there. Like, oh, weird. No, but it's just right here on the, like, on the desk. Like, right there. You have a tethered to you. You walk around the tracks right behind you. It just happened to be right there. But that was such an important lesson, you know, for me.

To have that beautiful experience, but that humbling experience very, very early on because it did not feel me on the inside. And I said, okay. Um, great to know. And I wasn't expecting it to, but the way that it happened, it was like, okay, great to know. That's really great to know. And so now I don't have to think about chasing any type of external validation. Always, you know, to be able to be humble enough and gracious enough to receive with real thanks, which I do.

Yeah. And, and I'm extremely proud of the work and extremely proud of that accomplishment because that, you know, that, that, that, that's no small feat. But I'm able to understand it all in context and then keep on going. But I also so respect the fact that like around, I don't know if I have quite the chronology right, but like you also do something that most actors would not do.

You take a break. You say like I'm burned out. Like I'm getting all these great opportunities. I'm cast in Furiosa. George Miller's next film. George Miller, the best, like ultimate. it and you know yourself enough to say, I'm not going to be able to deliver what I need to deliver.

Absolutely. For the long run, I need to take a break. Yeah, absolutely. That was, I was honest, man. You know, like I said, I graduated from, I graduated in 2015. And I had already been making my trips from New Haven to New York to rehearse for the get-down. You know, my first big scene was 10 days after I graduated. I'm shooting this big scene, this big disco scene.

this big disco scene in Les Inferno. So I had, I started. The whole thing. Yeah, yeah, man. So I started working. Yeah. And then from the get down, I do a movie called First Match. And then first match, and then first match, I'd go do

I go do another movie with Logan Lerman. Oh, Sydney Hall? I go do, I go do Sydney Hall. Thank you. And then from there I saw that at Sundance. I remember that one. Do Baywatch. And then from Baywatch, I'm all the way, I'm doing Greatest Showman.

And then I'm in Australia. And then from Australia, I go to Canada to go do Handmaid's Tale. And then from there, I go to Atlanta to go and do Watchmen. Then I go to L.A. for a bit. And then I go to Chicago. Then I look up and I'm in New York for a spell doing trial of Chicago 7. And then boom, pandemic. And then I'm off to Berlin, to San Francisco and then Berlin.

Right. from Berlin, I come back, I touch down a little bit, and I forget what I do after that, but then I'm back in London doing Aquaman too. And now it's 2021 by now, and I'm tired. You know, I'm tired. And I'm tired. That was the journey. And I know I left out Brazil, you know, even in that, I left out, I would go to Brazil to do Black Mirror.

Now, all of these are not, I won't call them champagne problems, but these are gifts. These are blessings, you know, the entire way. But it did come with something else, which was me just being very, very tired in the world was changing. The world was responding to me differently, you know, just as a, as this, as a, all of a sudden I'm sort of some type of commodity and people are looking at me differently. I'm just adjusting to this new reality at the same time as the world is changing. And then whatever else it was I had going on in my own personal life. and still having to persevere and perform. And yeah, I'm in, I'm in London.

And George Miller is, he's on top of it. He's already, we're already on the phone and on Zooms. One year before the, before the movie is going to, it's going to shoot. Oh, I know his process. I know. Yeah. It's deep. And that was, and that was, it wasn't overwhelming.

me. It was so cool. Yeah. It was actually so cool because he loved it. And it was like the only thing that he cared about. And he made the time in his life to do that. And he had his actors, you know, involved in the process a year ahead, just having creative conversations and imaginative conversations. And I knew deep down inside that it was too much and that I needed to rest. So, you know, I'm so glad that I handled that, honestly, you know, that, that, that, that, that, that that that that that that that that that that, that that, that that, that, that, that, that, that, that, you know, the way that I handled that. Um, because then I could separate myself from that with integrity and let, you know, another actor step in to do a fantastic job and bring everything that they had. And also, it allowed me to rest and rejuvenate and recalibrate and then wait, keep continue saying no until. the right thing showed up and that's when top dog underdog, you know, showed up. Which I know is a very meaningful, very important experience for you to do that. It was a dream role. It was my dream role, my first time coming back to, going back to theater,

and my first time on Broadway. And I needed that because, one, I just loved it. It felt like it was written for me. And it was a challenge to remind me that, like, hey, you know, you're pretty good at this thing, don't forget. You know, now go and go and work and go and earn it. And boy, did we ever go after that for a hundred and something plus shows. That was a hot ticket. I missed you, buddy. You need to get back

on the stage. That was you and Corey, right? Yeah, myself and Corey Hawkins. Yeah. And then, but lastly, just to bring that home, yeah. That warmed me up for Wonder Man. That got me conditioned and in shape when I had the first conversation with Sir Ben Kingsley. I was on stage. It was, it was in between shows.

You know, when I had my first meeting with Sir Ben Kingsley, we talked, you know, a little bit about the show and, you know, my appreciation for theater and his appreciation for theater and things like that. So I walked off the stage to Wonder Man, had a little, about a few weeks to, like, get myself together. And then I went to work on, on, I mean, off the stage for top dog underdog. And had a couple weeks to get myself, you know, together, went to work to, Wonder Man. And all of that is

starting to happen when I when I'm honest and when I say you know, thank you but no thank you to Matt Max and look how it's all played up. Lots of lessons there. And I'm sure you earned some credit with Sir Ben saying I'm walking off the stage of this prestigious

show. I'm not just a Marvel superhero guy, man. I got the goods. Yeah, for sure. We'll be right back with more Happy, Happy, Sad, Confused. The ride that steals the spotlight every time it hits the road, that's the Volkswagen Tiguan. Its sleek exterior makes a first impression you can't ignore.

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Patrick Picklebottom Everyday Mysteries is perfect, for kids and is just as entertaining for grownups who love a good mystery. The whole family can listen now wherever you get your podcasts. So talk to me a little bit. I know Destin was also like a huge factor, if not the factor, in working on this one. He's an exceptional filmmaker. Talk to me a little bit because I know we talked way back when you had, I know you'd at least like been in the Marvel sphere. Like you went up for Mbaku, your buddy Winston ended up getting that one in Black Panther.

Was that the only Marvel role you would ever? Kind of seriously discussed. Yeah. Yeah, that was the only one because after that, Black Manta was there very, very shortly after that. Got it. So when this one comes around, like, is it an easy, like, what's the pitch from Destin? Like, I mean, it sounds like you didn't really, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it wasn't like, you didn't care that this wasn't letting it be like a full-on superhero role.

You just wanted that experience of working with him. Someone like Sir Ben, right? That's not exactly. I forget what the pitch was. Let me try to remember, but the pitch was, it was something like, you know, this, this, you know, they're going to do it kind of differently. You know, Destin is going to shoot it like he shoots his indies. It's going to feel, you know, kind of different. We're not kind of go after the big superhero thing.

And this guy cares about acting. He cares about the craft. And, you know, he may be, you know, he's a little strange and, you know, but, you know, we think that is relatable. We would love to have someone who cares about, who's passionate about acting and maybe even the theater and the craft and X, Y, Z. Those were the sort of the details. And I'm listening.

I'm like, this sounds good. This sounds good. This sounds good. And I would love to work with Destin because Destin has a great vibe. But I need to speak to Kevin. And it was like, well, maybe, you know, maybe, you know, Kevin's busy. And I'm like, I need to speak to Kevin. Because you want the big picture.

I wanted to have a conversation with him to say like not necessarily where is this going to go. I didn't flat out ask that question. But I wanted to know like I said, hey man, this is what I said. I said, this sounds like a great opportunity. But I only get one more of a dollar to spend. That's what I said. I told us. I only get one dollar to spend and I want to make sure that I spend it well.

So that was really the question that I was asking him and I wanted to have that conversation with him to say, me saying yes is a huge gamble because I really, really, really like what you all do. So if this isn't the time for me to say yes, let me know because I will sit to the side and wait until it makes sense. Right. 2029 next Iron Man. I'm ready for you. I'll wait. You know what I mean?

I'll wait because I really, really dig what they do. So I didn't want to play myself small, you know. So I remember that. You know, my guys were like, you know, maybe he's, you know, maybe he's busy or not necessarily he's busy. But they were just saying like, you know, that's like, bro, you know, this is a big deal. And I'm like, I need to speak to Kevin. And Kevin. What did he say?

He let me know that it'll be a dollar well spent, you know. And we talked and I told some of the things that I wanted to do. And I said, and you know, Kevin, I said, people don't know that I'm funny. And when I did that, I remember, I remember he said, he did like that. He said, yes. I don't know what he saw that let him know that I was funny. That has some comedy out there. But I said, people don't know that I'm funny.

He says, yes. And that's what I wanted to let people know and show some colors. And then every, it was just fantastic. It was just really, really fantastic, but I did, it was very important for me to make it count. And you made it count. I mean, you and Sir Ben have got an amazing reviews on this. And it's like, look, it's going to get a justifiable awards run. I hope you guys both receive it.

Not that. It's all, as we know from the Emmys, so it's not what it's about. But it's nice to be like in that conversation. And now like it's been it's been Greenwood for season two, which isn't happening a lot in the Marvel TV universe, as you know. So, like, are you in Destiny, like, talking already? Do you know what the plan is, roughly? We haven't had conversations yet. He's probably in Spider-Man World.

And I'm in, you know, I'm working on a film that I'm about to start in a couple weeks. And Man on Fires coming out, you know, in a couple weeks. So I'm sort of working on what I'm working on. But, yeah, the band is getting back together, as they say. And I trust that they're going to, you know, that they're going to do what they have to do. I have my ideas and the things that I would love to, you know, to do it, the places I would love to see Simon Williams go. But I'm going to see what they offer first. Okay.

Anything you want a soft launch here today? Anything you want to secret out into the universe today with me? In terms of what? What you want to see for Simon going forward. Yeah, I want to see. Yeah, I'll say it. You know, what's so interesting about Simon is that we get to see Simon before he's. a star. You know, we get to see him while he's, uh, dreaming for everything that he wants.

What's interesting to me is to see what happens when he finally gets it. Because we haven't really, we haven't really seen that. You know, the first thing that he does is he says, okay, I'm going to go and get my, you know, break, and use this to sort of break my friend out. But like what happens when he really gets a little bit of, you know, fame and notoriety and attention? and when he can, you know, make changes on the script. And when he gets a little bit of power, that's that, that's actually what I'm saying. That's that's that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, people actually listen to him. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, what is he going to become? Have we created a monster? And. And I'm like, yeah, I think like, I think, I think so a little bit. I think, I think, I think it's cool to watch somebody want something and then they become a star and then you got to let him rise, rise, right? as high as he can go and let him get burnt by the sun a little bit. But his assent is pretty excited for me, you know, when I think about it. I don't want to put you on the couch, but you might be talking about your own story here. What happens when Yaya actually gets the success, gets the accolades, gets the Emmy?

How do you deal with that? I think I'm doing well. I think I'm doing well, man. I'm pretty chill. I'm pretty chill. But that's it's my job to play chill and not to add any theatrics to to my life I get to I get to do the crazy stuff through Simon you know I get to like you know Run from the paparazzi and I get to like wear my dark shades indoors and you know because I don't want people to see me and you know

Be worried about the fame and want more effect. I get to do all of that and that and I get to do all of that and I through Simon. And, uh, and, and, you know, sometimes I think that's what people sort of want to see. You know, I go to the grocery store and some people say, why are you here? I'm like, yo, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just getting some eggs just like you. But sometimes I feel like people would prefer if I just put my shades on and, you know, drive around in my fast car and, uh, you know, create a little bit of distance. I'll, I'll let Simon do that. That sounds healthier if in the long run for you. In the long run, right?

Yeah. Let's give some love to Man on fire, man. You don't always have to just inherit the roles of icons like Orange Fishburn and Denzel Washington, too. You're setting the bar high for yourself. I could make my life a whole lot easier for it, right? This is what I'm saying. Man, you know, that's, that's, it's a couple things. One, that's what's out there right now.

There's the, you know, that's, I still got to work. You know, just like everybody else. You know, so there's a, there's a, that's a part of the business model and some of the things that are working right now. But I also don't mind, you know, if it's good enough stepping into it and seeing, seeing what I could do. These are iconic characters and iconic roles played by iconic actors. And so, um, I look at this no different than I look at Hamlet, you know, he's a Shakespearean character. And several people have, you know, uh, uh, uh, um, walk the boards playing that character and now I get to go and give my interpretation of the

creasy character. I would do myself a huge disservice to try to put myself in competition or in comparison to any of those other actors. So I don't make that a part of my process. That's a lose. It's a losing game because they've already set the bar high. So I like to approach it with respect for the past, but also with a sort of optimism in terms of what it is that I could, you know, bring to the, bring to the canon of those of those characters. And that's been serving, that's been serving me well. What really impressed me in what I've seen so far of Mount on Fire, the scale of this is pretty epic.

I mean, the action is probably the most physically taxing, I would imagine, that you've done. And we're talking TV, but the scale is huge. Episode two, there is a sequence, I don't even know if I could describe it. It's kind of a car chase turn, plane chase turns. fight that would be a set piece in any summer blockbuster. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's that like for you? I mean, you're in pretty good shape to say the least, but that seems like it hurt. Yeah. Yeah. It hurt. I paid for it. You know, yeah, this one was physically, this one was physically taxed stretching, icing. This is the,

I got one of those Tim's machines where you put the stickers on and you give yourself like the electro stimulation and all of that stuff. Like, yeah, I definitely pay for this. It's more physical Plus, I'm getting, I'm getting older. I'm 39 now. I remember when we did the first Aquaman, I think Jason was 39. And he told me, he said, he said, use your, he said, you're doing everything on your own now. Because he saw me, just doing all my stuff. He says, he says, you're doing everything on your own now.

But use your stuntman. He said, use your stuntman. So that in 10 years, you know, your body's not wrecked. You know what I mean? And so from then, I have no qualms about using my. you know, about using my stunt guys. And I let them, you know, go to work because they're the experts. But man, this show, you talk about the scale of it.

Stephen and I, we talked about trying to, like, trying to make a movie while we were shooting. Yes. So, you know, while we were shooting his episodes for sure, we said, look, man, let's try to do this like a movie. And we tried and we, you know, had so much support from our Netflix. And then, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the scale of it is huge, but that's necessary in order to let everyone understand the stakes. And then we can sort of zoom in as we move forward and get a little bit more intimate. You've got, as always, just like our last conversation, you've got a lot going on.

I could dig in for about an hour on the Adventures of Cliff Booth. There's no movie I'm more excited about than this. For those that don't know, and everybody listening or watching probably knows. This is Fincher, Tarantino script, Brad Pitt reprising, reprising, The Cliff Booth. booth roll just pour it into my eyeballs. I'm ready for this. Tell me what was the process of getting it? Are you auditioning for Fincher? Was it hard to get? Like, what was what was that about? Oh man, you asked you asked the right you asked the right question. You didn't ask a question about like the story or about. I could. I'll go there if you want me too. No, no, no. You asked like probably the one question

that I can talk about. But since it's, you know, I'll go there. Since I don't know if I can, then I kind of can't, I kind of can't go there. But that's a good, but that's a, that's a good question. You can't talk about the audition process? Well, look, man, I'm, I'm, I have to be safe these. I got to play it safe these days because, uh, yeah, I got to be, I got to play it safe these days. You've been in a Matrix movie. You've been in Aquaman and I've never heard you clam up more than talking on.

What does Fincher have on you? He, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's got the goods, man. He's got the goods. But broadly speaking, that's got to be a bucket list moment. I mean, for all those reasons. Did it live up to the expectations, the war of working for someone like Fincher? You know, the trailer was dope.

The trailer was dope. And I am in the movie. That's what I can say because you saw me in the trailer, you know? Okay. Well, we'll have another chat. We'll have another chat at some point. Fair enough. I respect you.

We talked a little bit at the outset of Watchmen. I'm just curious. Like, are you happy that it was obviously a one and done? It's the singular, wonderful experience. I love the way it ended with you seemingly passing off the powers to Regina. Did you like the ending? Do you like that it stands kind of on its own as this singular thing? I do.

I really do. I wanted to come back because even though I'm like, what happened to him? But I'm like, nah, you know, they can figure it out. And now, you know, I'll be back. I really, really wanted to come back. Because it, it was so much goodwill toward that show and the writing was good. I read those episodes like I was, like I was watching it. I mean, that was, it was so, boy, that was the first time that I had worked on television.

Well, no, I've been really fortunate in television. But I remember that one stood out in a way where I was just excited just to read them, even looking for what I would do, but just to read as it unfolded. You know, and I was excited about the idea of it coming back, especially to see what Regina would do with, you know, those powers and things like that, the powers that were sort of implied. But I also really, really respect the heck out of Damon for how he apparently respectfully declined because it took a lot, it takes a lot of integrity to go out to tell the story that you want to.

to tell to understand that there's a huge demand for more and then to say, hey, I've already, I understand that, but I've already told the story that I wanted to tell. So I really, really respect that. And I think that allows the performance of myself and my colleagues to really stand out there and really hold up over, you know, over time. So it sort of keeps it as a kind of a piece of art, you know. You'll be happy to know. It's come up a lot on this podcast with folks I talk to. Is that right?

Sometimes I'll ask, yeah, sometimes I'll ask folks like their favorite, like comic book project, etc. And you think they're going to go Batman or something. But like Jennifer Lawrence is like, you know what was great?

Watchman. That's the best comic book thing I've ever seen. Like that's, yeah. I should go back and watch that. I haven't watched that in years. And I think I've only watched it once. But I should go and check it out now that I've gotten some distance away from it.

There was some talk, speaking of Damon, I love me some Damon Lindelof. There was some talk, come on. There was some talk of the Damon Lindeloff Star Wars project that you were going to be involved. Yeah, I never got a whiff. No. I never got a whiff of that ever. Not even one, never got a, never had a conversation, never had a phone call. I just saw that one day.

I was like, oh, that was probably saw that during the time when I was saying no to everything. So I was probably saying, man, that would be a nice job. You know what I mean? But no, never even got a whip. You didn't text them be like, anything there, boss? Got something for me? I know better than that, man.

I know better than that. Yeah, man. More happy say confused coming up. The war is over and both sides lost. Kingdoms were reduced to cinders, an army scattered like bones in the dust. Now the survivors claw to what's left of a broken world praying the darkness chooses someone else tonight.

But in the shadow dark, the darkness always wins. This is old school adventuring at its most cruel. Your torch ticks down in real time. And when that flame dies, something else rises to finish the job. This is a brutal rules-light nightmare with a story that emerges organically based on the decisions that the characters make. This is what it felt like to play RPGs in the 80s. And man, it is so good to be back.

Join the Glass Cannon podcast as we plunge into the Shadow Dark every Thursday night at 8 p.m. Eastern on YouTube.com slash the Glass Cannon with the podcast version dropping the next day. See what everybody's talking about and join us in the dark. The world of Sonic the Hedgehog has been thrust into a not-so-dark,

not-so-stormy, hard-boiled detective story that probably nobody saw coming. Follow Sonic and the Intrepid Chaotic's detective agency, as they take on their biggest case yet. This high-flying action-packed adventure will take them across the world, fighting for every clothing and fight. It's one heck of a tale, which is good, because this story might be the only thing that can save their lives. Well, if that's all, I can just dispose of you.

Wait, what? All will be revealed in. Sonic the Hedgehog presents the Chaotics Case Fires. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. So coming full circle a bit, it's been about, you said that you shot Get Down in 2015. I was going to say it's been about 10 years of the career. I mean, 10, 11 years now. Yeah, 10 years.

A little self-assessment. Like, you've learned some lessons through folks like Patrick Wilson and knowing yourself. But like, you've hit the ground running, man. Look at the body of the work the first 10 years. You've got to be proud. Are you goal-oriented at this point? If not, awards at this point, how are you challenging yourself the next decade? What are you looking to accomplish?

Yeah, that's a great question. I think the first decade, it took a decade to just, to just get the, to really just get the lay of the land. Yeah. You know, there's a lot going out there, going on out there in the business. And a lot of people have sort of, there's been ebbs and flows in the last 10 years, you know, for several artists, myself included. And I'm really fortunate to still, you know, be working in a way where there's a demand for my work. But moving forward, what I'm excited about doing is beginning to take all of that experience and to tell my own stories. You know, I have a production company now.

I've had it for the last five years. We've been quietly, quietly running and developing, and it takes a long time to develop things, but we've been putting together some, you know, some really classy projects that I'm really excited to tell and excited to advocate for. So I think then the next iteration is really about telling my own stories, whether I'm writing or whether I'm developing them up from the ground as a producer and really, you know, making sure that I'm a part of the vision. from the beginning. And then as I do that, to create opportunities for other actors, other writers, other storytellers, you know, to come, you know, into our sandbox, so to speak, and, you know, playing our playground. There's so many talented artists out there, so many talented people who, um, who just, just need a shot, you know, who really just need to push and really just need someone to advocate, you know, so things like, uh, the Emmy, things like, you know,

being surrounded in the awards conversations, you know, for Watchmen and, I mean, for a Wonder Man, excuse me, and what have you. All of those things, there's a lot of value in that because I get to then, you know, use that to, you know, elevate the work that I'm doing, but also to then vouch for other artists and things like that to put them in a position also. So this next phase is about sort of saying what I want to say, taking up space in that way and growing with other, you know, likewise artists. And there must be so many folks. on that list of folks you want to collaborate with. I know there was producing, there was something

you've been to produce with Michael B at some point. I'd love to see you guys mix it up. You obviously auditioned for Cougler way back when. I'd love to see you in your Bay Area, friend Ryan Cougar collaborate, like those guys on the list, others on the list that you're itching to mix it up with. Yeah, for sure. I'd love to work with them.

I love to get back with Nia DeCosta and you know to find something to, you know, to work on with Nia. Winston Duke is extremely talented. talented. I know he's like he's uh, I think he's doing a little bit of television, but he's also got in Baku, uh, you know, uh, still going on, but he's another one of those actors out there who, um, everybody knows that he's talented. People don't know how talented he is. Yeah. Uh, and so I'm always like rooting for him and secretly. And he's good at moving furniture too. He's good at moving

folks out of their places. Yeah. Yeah. And he help you with that way back when? Yeah, but he's all, no, but he's also, he's also got home. He's also set, um, Set Roots, I think, somewhere. And I'm not going to say where, but he's, he's set roots. He's in the vicinity. He's around. He's got a beautiful home. But, yeah, I think that was, was that just a callback from like the earlier days at earlier days at Yale when I was helping him move into his apartment? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good stuff. That's good stuff. But yeah, man, there's tons of, tons of actors and, you know, writers out there who I want to, you know, work with. There's a cat, Tom Pascenka, who I work, who, who's done some Broadway stuff. He was nominated for Tony, I think, a couple years back. We went to school together. He's one of my favorite actors out there.

So there's so many people out there working actors, writers, artists who are just looking for a push. And who I know they're just on their way. And I want to make sure that I'm a part of what they'll have going on. And I think it's really, it's a great way to, to collaborate in this, in this industry. You know, we're so nomadic that it is nice to work with people who, you know, who feel like friends and who feel like family, you know. And there's a couple of good models out there. Mike and Kugler are doing it. You got Matt and Ben, you know, they do it with their company.

And, you know, I, you know, I'd love to be able to do it, you know, for myself as well. All right. We're going to end with this. The happy, say I can fuse profoundly random questions. You ready for this, yeah, yeah. Yeah, let's go. I'm not ready, but, you know, I'm ready. You're ready.

You got this. It's the first time I've seen you uneasy the whole time. Yeah, at least since Cliff Booth. I know, I'm like, shoulders are going up? I'm like, okay, what's going on? Dogs are cats? Dogs, man, I got a giant schnauzer in the next room. His name's buddy.

He's amazing dogs. Although I come from a family that had cats too. but today for the sake of my guy dogs I say this to everybody that's a dog lover Mike myself you were cordially invited to my other show I do a show now with actors and their dogs or we just hang out with our dogs do you really I do I swear to God

it's called who's a good guest Patrick Wilson's been on it what kind of dog Patrick's got a bunch he's got rescues he's got mixes he's got the whole thing he brought one of them all right we got to make it happen We got to make it happen. Look, my guy's a star. He's a star. I've heard this before.

I've heard this from all my guests. But in your case, I'm sure it's true. I'm sure it's true. I can vouch for my guy. He's a star. He's a star. I can't wait to meet him. I can't wait.

What do you collect, if anything? What do I collect? I don't know if I collect any. I don't know if I seriously collect. anything. You know what I just got? I just, I would have to get up to go

away, but I won't do that. I'll stay in frame. I just purchased a compass. It's from 1918. And it is my one of my newest fascinations. It's from

World War I. And it's like that. It is my way of check this out it's my way of connecting to my family and the people that I love because I naturally have a tendency to place them here right like in my mind when I think about them like oh thinking about my mom I think my sisters you know um the uh my family the people that I

love and I put them here but my compass is my reminder that they're not here they're out there So as long as I know where I'm at in the world, then I can say, oh, you know, this person that I really love, there's somewhere out there. And I can send my love out into the world instead of sort of, you know, having that, having them sort of in my mind. So it's sort of my reminder that we're all here on this planet together. And, and that makes me feel not so alone sometimes in this world where I'm incredibly nomadic in my, you know. So I've got a compass. and I think that compasses are going to be, are going to be a thing. That's a beautiful answer. I love that. Now I need some maps. So now I've got a compass

and now I've got to collect some maps. Right. I'm going to see you wandering around New York. Not in an iPhone, Google Maps with a compass. Like, where am I? Yeah. I'll take it real extreme, man. I'll take it real extreme.

Yeah. Do you have a favorite video game of all time? I think Blitz, NFL Blitz is, I don't know if it's called NFL Blitz. We just call it Blitz. so nostalgic. I used to play that with my cousins and with my uncle. I would say Blitz, NFL Blitz. Okay. Forgive me. This is the Dakota Johnson Memorial question. She asked me this. I have to ask everybody this. Would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one B in your butt? I take the mouth full of

bees. Okay. We'll leave it there. Okay. What's the wallpaper on your phone? It's a Bible verse. It's Romans 12 and 2. And it says, be ye not conform to this world, but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. Lovely. Yeah. Lovely. And what's the worst noted director has ever given you?

Ooh. I can't give you that note. I can't tell you that because if I tell you, you're going to know who it is. Yeah, I can't tell you that, unfortunately, because if I tell you, you're going to know. who it is. Does it end with, and it's because I'm Michael fucking Bay. That's why. No, Michael, Michael says, Michael, Michael, he says, I got a guy for that.

That's what he says, like, I got a guy for that. No matter what the problem is, just do it, just do it. I got a guy for that. And we probably does. Post. That's the thing. Well, just do it. Just go, go, go.

We'll do it in post. Oh. One of my proudest achievements, I was on set of one of his movies and he yelled at me through a megaphone and I was like, I made it. Michael Bay just said. Mike is a star, man. He was, he's a, he's a, he's a star. I work with Mike again in the heartbeat any day to week.

Yeah. Yeah. He knows what he's doing. Yeah. He's one of one. But it's been too long. Congratulations on everything. Wonder Man, Man on Fire and so much more.

I appreciate you always. Hopefully I'll see you out and about in New York and perhaps with our dogs next time. We'll see. I take you. I will take you up on that. I'll, I will find the time for. that. I appreciate you. Thank you. No doubt. All right. Thanks, man. Peace. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to

this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't should do this by Josh. Hi, I'm Brandi Pissanti. For the last 15 years, I've starred on one of the most successful reality shows of all time, story tours. On my no show, The Real Reality, my guest and I will reveal the real story of what it's like navigating fame and notoriety. Because it's my show, I can do whatever I want, I can say whatever I want. No filters, no rules, no network executives. And I believe that's what the world wants.

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