Happy Sad Confused - Zack Snyder, Vol. IV

Episode Date: September 17, 2026

Welcome Zack Snyder back to HSC! For Zack’s fourth time on the pod, him and Josh catch up at the Toronto International Film Festival, where Zack is premiering his new film, THE LAST PHOTOGRAPH. Also, updates on the 300 prequel series, his ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK remake, and his adaptation of THE FOUNTAINHEAD. Plus, his thoughts on the new DCU, AI in filmmaking, and what he thinks his best movie is. As Zack himself says here, “Start the discourse!” SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! UPCOMING EVENT! 10/13 -- Joe Manganiello in NY -- Tickets here: https://www.92ny.org/event/joe-manganiello-with-josh-horowitz-bloodlines Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Forget the woman who wrote the review, but it was basically like, I'm sure Zach Snyder, every time he tells cut, he like, right? And I'm just like, that's awesome. Like, that is an awesome, like, first of all, my kids are reading this stuff. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins. Hey, guys, it's Josh.

Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Coming at you once again from the Toronto International Film Festival, this time with the one and only, Zach. Snyder. Hey guys, thanks as always for checking out the podcast. Remember, to hit that subscribe button on YouTube, on Spotify, on whatever podcast platform you are using. This is our second episode coming at you out of Toronto. If you haven't caught up with our Gary Oldman conversation that I recorded in front of a live audience, please do so. An absolute legend and a great, great chat. This is kind of like, I mean, a really interesting companion piece. Who would have expected, of all filmmakers, Zach Snyder, to come to, a film festival with an independent film. But that is where he is at. This is a passion project he is talking about. It is his new film, The Last Photograph.

And look, all props to Zach, who is, of course, a regular unhappy, second views. This is his fourth time on the show. And he is always a great conversation, honest to a fault, perhaps, for his, you know, his reputation, which can get him into trouble, I guess, just in terms of, like, just how honest he is about criticism and intention and all of that, he is, as we all know, a lightning rod.

Always has been, always will be. That is the nature. And to contextualize this a little bit, if you haven't seen the headlines, his film is called The Last Photograph. It is kind of a down-and-dirty Zach Snyder film. He deep-heated himself. He was the camera operator independently financed. This is a passion project that's been in the works for over two decades, tells the story of two

men, one kind of lost soul photographer, one who is out for some kind of redemption, revenge after horrible tragedy falls some of his family members. And they kind of go on this like heart of darkness, Apocalypse Nowesque adventure journey. It is violent. It is sexual. It is divisive as all Zach Snyder films are. As we recorded our conversation, it was just hours after the big premiere the night before at Toronto. First time it's ever been seen in front of an audience. I was there. And look, the reviews are all over the place. And we talk about it in this conversation. Look it up for yourself. It is loved by the Snyderheads. It is hated by critics. It's somewhere in between it falls. I respect Zach for who he is and the way he carries himself.

And look, some of his films are more for me than others. But I do respect always him being true to himself, and that certainly is what the last photograph is. We don't know where this is going to end up yet as we record this. It is up for, you know, sale for distribution. I'm sure it will land somewhere. It will find an appropriate home. But this is an interesting conversation because it kind of captures a moment in time as Zach was literally like still like reading the reviews and the reception and kind of laughing about, you know, the divisiveness of it all, but also knowing this kind of goes the territory for him. Quick note on the production of this. This was shot here in my, my said, a little hotel room, if you're watching this in Toronto.

We unfortunately had some major audio problems that we didn't discover until afterwards. Luckily, we had some backup audio recording. I don't even actually know the quality of it as I record this intro. I hope it's not too crappy, but I know it will be usable. I know it will be good enough to listen to. But my apologies, because it's certainly not up to our usual standards here at Happy SET Confused. And don't worry, the aesthetic will improve once I get back home to New York and we're back

in the home studio. I promise you. But look, when you can get Gary Oldman and Zach Snyder at a film festival, you do it. Remember, as always, check out our Patreon. Patreon.com slash happy. Say I confused for early access, discount codes, access to our live events, all sorts of fun stuff. I should also mention in this conversation, while we talk a lot about last photograph, of course we talk about other things. We talk about 300 and its 20th anniversary. We talk about the 300 prequel series that he's working on, about Escape from New York, which he's going to be directing, I think, next. We talk about some superhero stuff, needless to say, of course we do.

This will, as always, generate headlines. I'm sure I always appreciate Zach's willingness to be, as I said, Frank and open and good-humored and good-natured. He's always welcome on this podcast. So I know you guys are going to dig this. Check it out. And I'm not sure when you'll be able to see the last photograph, but now you'll know a little bit more about what all the fuss is about after this conversation. Enjoy. Zach, shall we do this?

Let's go. Here we go. We're in Toronto, Volume 4 of Happy Second Fused with Zach Snyder. That's good to see you, man. It's good to see it. Thanks for having me this. What day is it? Monday morning. It's a lot. Look, you're coming off of hours after your world premiere of the last photograph. I was there. Congratulations. Thank you.

Look, it's a lot to process any kind of debut. Putting yourself out there is always a big thing. Yeah. And this is a new experience for a number of briefs. reasons we'll get to just first of all how you feel in them I mean like so I feel good I feel good actually I feel good I think that the it's it's I guess you know at this point like the predictable discourse around my my what I do I guess is very it's like a palatable thing like the lines are clearly drawn you know

which I think is really interesting and I that I think in a lot of ways maybe because of Netflix and because you know The films on Netflix are a little bit kind of like they exist in a bubble. Like you can't really like they're kind of impenetrable. Right. You could talk about them all day and like no, it doesn't make a difference. You know what I mean? It's like a, it's like ecosystem that kind of it feeds on itself.

People don't really, when you go on Netflix, you like, oh, let's say it's a space movie, Rebel Moon, I'll watch that. You know, like there's no like, you know, there's no. It's easy ball. It's just like, yeah, it is what it is. Oh, yeah, sure. That's fine. And so, but it's just interesting to sort of be.

like in the trenches with a movie especially the movie like this it's kind of tiny and you know we kind of it's a lot of

yes it's a tone poem and so yeah that that description right there is going to evoke right like oh here's pretentious Zach he's going exactly yeah exactly well it's also the context

like to set the scene we're at the Toronto International Film Festival you are not like historically the film festival guy You are like. I've never been to a film festival before. Well, I was at a film festival. We were into the, we took 300.

You're familiar with that movie? I've heard of it. Yeah. Yeah, we took the movie. We took 300 to South Fire. It's about three. It's not a math movie. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a beautiful mind.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but, uh, but we took that to the Berlin film festival. And there was a huge, it kind of actually turned me off the film festival. because there was a massive, like,

there was like this whole thing about, like, the movies, like, fascist and, and there's, like, everybody walked out and booed the movie, and it was like this huge thing, and we were like, ah, what the fuck happened? My guy was like, test screening it, everyone's loving it, and then all of a sudden. Literally, we took it, and it was, like, just a complete disaster we thought, like, the movie was DOA. And we had a press conference, and all the, like, German press was asking me, why what's it like to be a fascist filmmaker?

And I was just like, what, what has happened? I remember one of the great comments was, are you pro-gay or pro-N-R-A? That was the choice. Those are my two. And I go, look, I got to be honest, I'm a little bit of both. Do you feel like exposed when you're like at a premiere

and like something, especially like this, that is a passion project. That is something that you did on your own terms. Like, you know, the truth is it's constant. It's not, you know, it's a constant, the discourse around the movies and the choices and the, you know, whether it be Justice League or anything I'm doing, the discourse is like for me is on the daily. So it's, so you're a little immune to it, maybe. I mean, it's slightly immune to it, but it's interesting. I'm fascinated by it in some ways, too.

Like I saw this one review of the movie was like, fuck you, you, Zach. Snyder, I want to kill you. And yet you still came to my interview. And I thought that was, I was like, you know what? That's awesome. Haven't seen the movie yet. Preemptive. Preemptive fuck you to Zach's man.

I was like, okay, wow, that's like, at least it's like you feel something, you know? You could, you could say a lot about my movies, but, you know, I can't, I don't think like, you know, you get a lot of like kind of. Yeah. Yeah. It was all right. It was whatever. I don't really remember it, to be honest. You know, I think that that's, I mean, I can't, that's my, that's what I'm trying to do, I guess. Yeah. Do you, I mean, so this one to set up a little bit of like where we are and how we got here, you've been working on this on and off for 20 plus years. Yeah. Yeah. What kept you coming back to it? It's, it does strike me that like you're in the era of like your passion projects, whether it's like the fame Snyder cut, whether it's Rebel Moon, which was kind of like on and off for years. And now hear this one.

was this kind of more of like just circumstance like you had a yeah literally i mean literally we've had it just sort of set up and ready to go for a long long time and how to do it was always the question you know we i think i think the budget um when we had a budget of warner brothers was like 50 million dollars right right and so i was like no i mean not that i was like no we can't do it for that much but it was like an in-between movie right right it's not like a block buzzer but it's not like a low-budget movie it's got kind of that weird movie and I was like I just don't I don't feel like it's ready but and then we had other director who was going to do the movie we had other stars yeah you know along the way it was

Christian and Jean Pan yeah right and so it was like and then you know just recently you know I was going to do the UFC movie and then we kind of put that on hold and then as soon as that got put on hold I was like oh like I have a little window like let's I'm not going to do nothing yeah and so we were like let's just go make last photo So we cobbled together a tiny amount of money and went and shot it. And so it was like, it was kind of like a last second decision and kind of did a little bit on a lark. And yeah, so it was just fun to do. And it was fun to go shoot with all my friends and just kind of, you know, be really like, it'd be really raw and just, you know, take the camera and see what you can do.

It does feel like like just thematically it is like all the popery that is used. Like it is your love of photography. It has like, look, you have a good damaged man. You got two in this one. Yeah. One's kind of like searching for revenge. One's kind of a lost soul that just kind of like is looking for a purpose in life. Yeah, sort of like one's kind of been devoured by the images.

One's been kind of had images fuck them up, you know, which I feel like is kind of like, that's kind of like that as a character. And look, we've talked about your influences over the years. You got to feel apocalypse now watching this. Like they're down the river. Oh, yeah, no, it's very Conradian in its, that's a descriptive. Yeah, I think so. So did this evolve a lot or is it essentially kind of like, I know the setting change over the years, but is it essentially, I think it's thematically the same story.

Yeah. I mean, it's essentially always been these two guys like going, we always talked about it like, you almost, they're traveling like back in time. Right. In some ways as they travel into the movie. Yeah. And approach, approach wise, I mean, like it's so funny if you hear you talk about, like, you know, we wanted to do. do this like small movie like by the standards of like an indie filmmaker this would be their biggest movie by an exponential rep like you know like factor it's it's got scale it feels big

it's got helicopters and giant like action um did it feel i mean is this i guess this is in for you probably smallest since dawn of the day no the smallest ever by by by so much i can't tell you what the budget was right now okay that will be revealed at some point like are using your own equipment? Like, how are you finding the quarter to, like to... I'm just doing all the jobs. That's how we did it. D.P. camera off, like a while that time? That was the camera operator for every shot. You're literally

holding the camera. Every single shot. Yeah. Literally for the... If you look on my Instagram, there's a really good, there's a lot of good pictures. There's that one picture that really, I think, tells the story of the movie I can, you know, I don't know how the podcast. We can put it. This is it right here.

And I... Hey. Yeah. But anyway, it's like me holding the camera. And Stewart's like crying when he's holding the sort of the chief of the indigenous guy in the rainforest. And like you look at that shot and it's like me and an apple box and I'm just like sitting on the double box pointing up. And it's like that's pretty much the whole way the movie was made in a lot of ways. So. And what does that do for you? Like you've DP the last few films but being like, I mean, being the camera off like you're in it.

I mean, obviously you're always in it as the director. It's it. I enjoy it. I got to be honest, I like it much more. It's like much less tedious, weirdly. It's much more intimate. And I really kind of, I'm more interested in the movie, you know, like, because I'm kind of like responsible for every single shot.

You're there. Yeah, yeah. So I found it interesting at the Q&A last night. They were, someone asked you about kind of like, you know, it's a dark film. It's a heavy, heavy shit in this movie. And like, they were asking kind of like the toll it takes on you and your actors. And like by the time you're like on set, though, it sounds like you're just like, you know, you've dealt with all that shit. And then you're just about getting the shots.

And we're also just like, you know, we're kind of having a good time. Like as soon as like we're not rolling, we're like laughing as like a ridiculous and like those guys are so lovely to be around. Yeah. You know, so like when I'm not like when they're not like crying and like fighting and I say cut, they're like, oh my God, that's hilarious. Okay. You know, we should do is blah, blah, blah, tell story, this, that. Okay, ready, but let's shoot again. You know, so it's a very, it's just a real, like, it's just like a lovely experience, you know.

Does it feel, so when you talked about how like this is kind of like more about the circumstance of having the whole of the schedule. It's not like is it, because I think a lot of people are going to be quick to say it's a reaction to kind of where you were at. Like, you know, Rebel Moon. I don't think it was a reaction. I mean, I'd love, I'd like that narrative, but it's just not really true. I mean, I think it was like a thing that was the only way to make it was to make it this way. And I think the real experiment was like, can we do it? Like, it was, that was the experiment.

Like, have we gotten to spun into, like, the giant world of cinema where, like, you just physically don't know how to. Right. You make a time even a lot a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you can't, like, unless I have, like, a cappuccino, like, or whatever. I don't know how.

I don't know what that would be. But, like, unless I have, like, all the bells and whistles, I can't physically do it. And I was like, you know, I just was thinking, like, okay, if I have a camera and an actor, I can make a movie. You know, like, that's it. That's all I need. You're probably doing with my phone. They're like, you know, that'll be next.

Exactly. You're going to even down a dirty. Well, I've done an iPhone movie. So that's, I mean, a little tiny one. Did you? I did. I did, like, if you go on my Vero, you'll see, I did that snow steam iron. I did it like in 2017.

Okay. But I did this little, like, I was going to teach a class up at Art Center. Yeah. And because I was really, I really wanted to like, we had like basics, right, a film. And like, what the cool thing about is we had Super 8. So when you shoot a Super 8 movie, you know. it's not the movie that's going to be the movie that like is start your career right because you know it's just like it's practice yeah feels like you're getting the hours it's like a sketch yeah yeah yeah

it's like yeah well i just feel like you know a lot of times in film school because now in the like most in the basic classes people have um use real cameras yeah you know so they don't know the starter kit they kind of think like oh maybe this is the movie right and so i was like oh no let's do an iphone class where we talk about the real kind of nuts and bolts of making a movie. Yeah. Nuss and bolts of shooting, scene creation, all that stuff. And we can really walk through it in a kind of very methodical way. You know, the things that a lot of times I think in film school, like they assume you know.

Right. And you just don't really have like real scene construction like language. Yeah. And they, and so I just thought, oh, it would be so fun. And really to make like a film every two weeks and really crank, you know, like a five-minute movie every two weeks go yeah and we had that when I would when I had my basics of film at art center we literally had a film due every two weeks and they had to be good and they had to be interesting and whatever and so I had this whole idea like I was like oh we're gonna do a shoot with an

iPhone edited blah blah blah blah and they're like I remember debby said to me like you know you've never really shot a movie out of my phone so you have this huge idea about like making iphone movies but do you is that possible right so I was like oh shit you're right So I was like, okay. So I just, like I took a weekend and I just shot a little movie with my phone. And it's on the internet. So you can check it out. It's called Snow Steam Iron.

There it goes. Shot on iPhone. There it is. More happy say confused coming up. You've got your favorite blanket, a freshly poured drink and a cold case burning a hole in your streaming queue. You're not just watching true crime. You're running the investigation from the comfort of your couch. Welcome to Murder She Watch.

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The whole family can listen now wherever you get your podcasts. So, okay, so going forward with the, Okay, so it's out in the world. People have seen it. A small, not a lot of people have seen it. No, not a lot. Like, what is the goal? Like, is there an ideal kind of, like, home for this that you hope that this lands out? Are you looking at? Yeah, I mean...

I would love it on the big screen. I just think that it's, you know, I can, I'm super excited for more visceral reactions to the movie. So it's this love hate. It's like, you like, oh, I wish people would just be kind, but you also get off on it a little bit. I mean, it's just the reality. reality like if I didn't I would just like not do this you know like I'm I I don't know how I've entered into this you know into this narrative where like the the movies are so divisive and so you know it's just a movie it's not really it's not

that if you if if after you see this you're like what I got to see that Zach's not every movie apparently it's crazy you might be slightly I'm not going to say be disappointed. No, but it's not. It's not like another, like, you know, you're not going to be like, oh, my God, it's so violent and sexually deprived and all those things. Depraved and deprived. It's actually more sexually deprived actually than it is.

Within the first 30 seconds, you'll feel that. No, but yeah, in the first like, yeah, in the first like five minutes of the movie, it's pretty, it's pretty, it's pretty hilarious. Yeah. But, like, also, it's just, I don't know. Like, I think, you know, people think people would take it. And I understand that like a super earnest, right? Yeah.

But I'm also like a very self-aware. Like, people think I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. But like, I'm incredibly self-aware. Like, I understand Kitch. Like, Kitch is my favorite genre. Yeah. It is what I can't help myself. Yeah.

Like you've watched 300. You watch Watchmen. you watch any of my movies, Rebel Moon, anyone, if you don't think I... You get a joke. You don't think Kitch is like, and I mean Kitch in the high art way,

not in like, you know, whatever like... Snarky. Snarky, yeah, like, you know, camp, there's a big difference between camp and Kitch, right? Kitch is like, the Kitch school of, like, art is a very sophisticated, like self-aware,

deconstructivist way of making movies. And that's in my DNA. And I think that, like, people think that I love that when people try and get in my head and think the way I think and I think that I always am super excited about that

because I find it really amusing because it's it's the way they they position me as some sort of like I remember this one review in do you remember those

do they still exist fuck what they um I think they're out of Chicago. It was a film. Wait, A.B. Club. A.B. Club. Yes.

It was an A.V. Club review. Yeah. And I forget the woman who wrote the review, but it was basically like, I'm sure Zach Snyder, every time he tells cut, he like jerks off, right? No. And I'm just like, that's awesome. Like, that is an awesome. Like, first of all, my kids are reading this stuff.

But, like, I just think that it was like, I just was like, that's such a, like, cool, like. If they only knew, though. One millimeter deep. Like, you know, I wish I was that shallow. That would be amazing. So much easier. People also, like, it's so funny, you're kind of co-opted by both sides of the political spectrum, right? Like, often it feels like, oh, I mean, I've seen some comments here.

It's like, oh, this could go to the daily wire. This is like so extreme right, fascist, et cetera. Like, yeah, that's cool. I don't understand. I don't understand the, yeah, sure, I think I have. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, it's, look, it's, it's, it's, it's, I thought like, you know, I think last photograph is a lot like Barbie, you know, in some ways, you know, in that it's like, you know, sort of, you know, I made it from my perspective, you know, and it's, it's, yeah, is it,

is it, is it two men on a journey? It is. I'm not going to apologize for being, for having two male characters right in the movie and that there's not a but also like you know are they haunted is the one character haunted by this this woman that he's loved his whole life and and couldn't make it like it's not about whether or not she's in the movie right right like if if if the criticism is like you know there's no female character in the movie well there is a female character in the movie well there is a female character in the movie. She doesn't happen, she happens to have her presence is the actual catalyst for every single thing that happens in a movie. Even like the idea that like, if you watch this movie and your point of view is that, well, why, why didn't we like really

flesh out that female character and have a whole, like really have her like be, like, be because that's not the movie. Right. It's not like a, it's not a choice of like me excluding. Yeah. Or like characterizing like making a cliche of the female character because we rarely see it. It also says something about characters. It's how it echoes through your existence.

We all carry those problems. Well, it says something about the men too. The guy that's haunted. It's like, is he viewing her the full person? At that point, but like all, we all have relationships where we. like you put a lot on you put all these things on to it that just aren't there probably you know and like you you you know we like are that are the people these past relationships you've had and you're like when you remember the person do you remember them as a full fleshed out character

or do you remember the bits of the person that affected you in certain ways and made you sad or happy or whatever you that's how you remember people yeah the idealized version of course yeah of course So, okay, so go. He has, he literally has like a nude photograph of the woman. Right. That she did on purpose, by the way. Right. Like, it's not a, that's how I remember you.

Like, I'm going to fuck you up. Yeah. Like, I'm leaving you. I'm doing, like, the relationship's over. I'm going to let you take one photograph of me before I leave. And in it, I'm going to, like, take my clothes off. And that I'm going to leave you with. So suck on that.

Like, that's never happened to you. Right. Come on. We all. have that picture. Where is it? Show me the picture. You've all got it. It's on your phone now because we don't have Polaroids anymore. This is true.

Is this? Don't tweet it. Don't. Yeah. Is your PSA from Z. Everybody tweeted into my feed. I want to see everybody's last photograph. Personal last photograph.

Hashtag personal last photograph. Yeah. What is last photograph to you? Oh my God. There it is. There it is. We just created your marketing campaign. Is this the final cut or would you like, are you like, are you like,

Are you delivering this to, like, a studio or streamer as is? I think so. Okay. This is the Snyder about the Snyder. I don't know. I don't know what to do to it. Right. So more violence?

I don't know. I think you got it. Okay. So can I ask you some other things going off of where you're at? I know Escape from New York is on the docket. Oh, yeah. Are there any lessons from this experience that you're going to apply? It's the same lessons I always got.

It's not. I don't know that there's any. I mean. So what's the approach? What's, because I mean, look, we all revere, come on, escape from New York is a totemic film for all of us. Oh, no. The approach is for me to like, well, I mean, you know, the movie is going to be set in in 97. You know, it's sort of a, it's a, you know, from the perspective of 1981.

I set the movie, the sort of the war between, you know, the United States police force and the, elements, criminal elements, takes place in, I think, July 9th, 1981, which is the release date of the original movie, right? So, and then, you know, there's a bit about, and then

the rest is pretty much escape from New York, you know? Just, I think it's, I mean, and also talk about a movie that is like, you know, it's like, it's the perfect combination of Kitch and Camp and yes, it's all the things. That's why

I love it. You know, it's like, but also it's a way that satire and can can get to us, you know, like we can make comments about, you know, government and all the, you know, overreach or whatever you want to call it, you know, the People's Liberation Front of America. Right. You know, all that stuff is very like, that's, that's in the headlines. So it's a really, it's quite a, it's quite, I think it's quite a, um, it's, It's a current in some ways.

Do you have your snake Fliskin? I may. Someone you worked with before? I'm not going to say. Is snake going to look like, is like the eyepatch? He better. Yeah, you got to keep it. He better look like snake or he's like, I'll walk out.

I did talk to Jeffrey King Morgan recently and he was saying that he's been hitting you up, whether it's snake or another. He literally has been hitting me up for, yeah, he's just been like, I don't know. Did he send you an audition tape, a growl? Like a little... He doesn't need to send me a growl. I got plenty of that. No, he's the best. I love him.

He's great. He's great. He was telling me when I talked in how you used to kind of like tease him egg him on on DBS, like, Flashpoint. Like, just sort of like tease that was coming. Was that was... That's cool. Was that, who knew? Was it part of the plan for Joe?

Sure. It could have been. Yeah. Did you have kind of life? And Jeffrey's great. You know, he's so strong. Yeah. You know, a lot of people like, you know, do a cameo and you're like, oh, that's, that's a,

a balsy cameo because, you know, that person obviously couldn't sustain like an actual storyline, you know? Right. But he obviously can. Oh, he's amazing. Yeah, I know. More happy say I confused coming up. There are vampires out there. They're beside you in the darkness.

But what people don't understand is that they're not monsters. They're just going to work, living there on lives. But we are a dying breed. Those who came before me, they are fearful and are not content to sit back and just disappear. And they'll do anything to fix that. From the creators of Parkdale Haunt comes Woodbine, a podcast about monsters, dreams, and changes,

those you want, and those you never saw coming. The final season begins this fall, distributed by realm. The Tudors were probably the most scandalous dynasty in British history. Names like Henry VIII and Bloody Mary are still known today. This season on vulgar history were so. spilling the historical tea on the messy Tudor era. We'll get into the Anne Boleyn of it all, figure out who really wrote Shakespeare's plays,

was Elizabeth really a virgin queen? And why was Henry the A's the fucking worst? Listen to vulgar history, wherever you get podcasts. Okay, so if you'll indulge me, a few random things. 20th anniversary, 300, you were saying, Let's go. Let's go. Okay, when you look back at that one,

all your films, so many iconic moments and shots, can you take me back to the This Is Sparta moment? Like there's no way to go too big on that, right? Like you know like you're going. You know, I've heard Jerry tell this story a few times about the This Is Sparta. Yeah. What's true? What's your recollection? I mean, I hear his version. I hear it.

That sounds a little. I hear it. It's sure. Sure. What's your version? I just think that there, from my point of view, there was in the comic book, This Is Sparta is really. written with exclamation points, you know, so I... You leaned into the fatal annotation.

It, it... And he did an amazing job. Like, that line is iconic, right? Like, it's beyond. And I just think that, yeah, the moment, I just remember, you know, him doing that version and being like, okay, good, all right, we got, we can, now what else? Right. What else we got?

Like, let's... Moving on. There's other things to do. Right. We have that, because that's correct. So yeah, no, I'm, yeah, like, I, yeah, it's fantastic. And, you know, it's a, it's a pretty, it's a very rich universe, the 300 universe. I was going to say, so it sounds like we're finally getting close to you returning to that,

yes to that universe in a TV form, yes. Yes. It's the prequel. It's the, we really can. And there's nobody here. I'm like, right. Is that cool? Can I say that?

I think we know that there's been in development. Okay. Okay. All right. Yes. And it sounds like it does. It does feel like it's very exciting and very good. Would you direct any portion of it or?

I think so. Oh, that's exciting. Yeah. There was also a, obviously there was the sequel film that you did direct, but like there was another script you guys wrote, right? Like a third film? Like, or? There was a third film, but as I was writing it, it literally got high, it was an

Alexander the Great Story. Right. They got hijacked by history when I did my research. And it turned into this, um, It's a script that exists. I had never made into a movie. But it, it's a love story.

It turned into a love story between Alexander and a Festian. And it just completely diverged from the 300 universe completely and became its own thing. And now is it complete. It's just, I had to go back to everyone and say, I didn't, I didn't. They were like, go write a 300 sequel. And I was like, cool. And then I came back and I said, I didn't do it. I wrote something.

I wrote a thing, but it's not that. And they were like, what happened? And I was like, yeah, I just. just fell in love with this other story and I wrote it and sorry. So that's not, that didn't become the prequel series. No. So you can say anything about what the topic or characters are in the prequel series? In the prequel series?

I mean, I don't, I don't think I'm allowed to say. Okay, okay, okay. I would love to. Okay, we'll move on it. But it's cool. I believe it. It's very cool. Um, I feel like we've been talking ever since Sucker Punch came out about the

director's cut revisiting it. Like, what the, what the, oh, uh, a sucker punch. Yeah, I would love that. That's like, it's one of those things like where every time I call over to Warner Village to say like, okay, we should do the director's cut of Suckermanch because obviously there's a lot of conversation.

It's like there's all these like weird things of like, you have to wait for some licenses to completely finish because if I've say I bought the original sucker punch or whatever or one of the versions. And I'm showing it on my streaming service or somewhere. And then

I release the director's cut. Apparently that diminishes the value of the thing that I bought and so I don't know that's what I've been told okay it might be bullshit it's a good excuse but I go oh yeah oh okay but on the docket one day when though definitely on the docket definitely on the docket yeah I gotta get the girls back for a couple like via like a little ADR here and there too so are any of the past I mean you've kind of revisited all the works in different ways I feel like is there anything left in the in the past work

to kind of revisit for an opening a cut. No, you've done it. I really done it. I really mind it. Are you okay? Raked it over the coals. Are you okay with some of these random ones here? Can I, because I'm fine with the random ones.

All feels like the random ones. Yeah, it's all good. It's all good. Okay. So, did you ever explore a Jorel kind of spin-off or anything? Because I always loved the opening sequence of Man of Steel. And I know Russell talked about like, oh, he would have loved to explore more there. Was that there ever a serious conversation of anything more there?

There was a small, conversation we had about some sort of prequel, you know, Zod, Jorel, early days, kind of world, but it was always just, I think it was fun. The, I've talked to you a lot about casting about all your

different famous iconic roles over the years. I never talked about Lois and I was always curious on that. Kristen Stewart, Zoe Saladanya, were any of these folks like almost your lowest? Zoe was. Okay. But Amy was just like Amy, you know, like I just felt like, you know, as far as like America's sweetheart kind of like perfect.

Right. You know, she had, she had Moxie. Yep. Leaning into kind of just like the iconic. Yeah. I just really, I mean, I love Zoe. So it was like really hard. Yeah.

And I thought Zoe's like very, she's always power strong. Yeah. And she's always like just so, so good. But like, I don't know. Amy was just like, just felt. And I don't mean this. I mean this in a good way. Like she felt like very, very much on the nose.

Yeah. But she's such a good actress. She's actually able to do it. Yeah. And actually able to make it into something other than what it is. Yeah. You know, which I think is like that's the ultimate thing. Like you think you did the obvious thing.

then the way the person does it is still like, yeah, better. But the last couple times I feel like we've talked, we've kind of, you know, we talked about the journey through the comic book universe and kind of like it seemed like you said to me, maybe not in these exact words, that you kind of needed a break. You needed like to kind of detox a little bit because you, you just went through it obviously. Surely. Where are you at now? Like are you consuming film, comics, anything?

Or are you still kind of on, I need, I need some distance from that world? Um, no, I mean, a little bit, but, you know, I still, I mean, look, the truth is, you know, I've already ignited some. And, you know, I don't think it's not falsely, but like, you know, without any real. I mean, like I said, Dark Night Returns is like the real, for me, it's a slight holy grail. Yeah. Because I think to, to have done Watchmen and, And Dark Night Returns is really like, that's the... That's the binary that defines the whole. That's it. If you've done those two, you can really... It'd be hard to call bullshit on me after that. Are you reading comics?

Like, I... People love, like, absolutely... Not, man. Really? I read a comic recently called Dead Samurai, which is a zombie... Okay. A zombie story set in sort of feudal Japan,

which obviously is awesome. Some checks the boxes for you. Some to think. If you're interested, you can go check it out. We're there. I got a chance to catch up with Ghal actually recently. And we were talking about kind of like, you know, the end for each of kind of like your characters in that universe was a well. It was unfortunate.

And James has talked about like it was just not ideal the way it kind of like all went down for various reasons. Like, do you feel like there was like a definitive moment for you where you knew like your time? in that universe was done? Like, was there a phone call, an email a moment? Or was it kind of like a slow kind of disintegration of you kind of exiting that world? I mean, oh, geez. I mean, that whole saga around me leaving was, yeah,

I think that when Debbie came back to me after watching the cut of Justice League, the Joss cut of Justice League and she said you are to never see that movie I knew it was kind of that was that was it and I thought okay that's going to be the legacy it's just going to be and I believe and I haven't seen this but I believe

that in the in the title sequence of I've seen it memed so I'm not 100% sure how it works okay there on my on my where it says directed by Zach Snyder. Yeah.

There is a homeless person that has a, I think they have a thing that says, I tried for something like that. Okay. And I find it really like, I was like, wow, that's cool. That's a good, like, if I hadn't done my Justice League, that would have been the end of it.

Right. So that's, that you can imagine that's cool. That's cool. So you still haven't seen the Jaws cut. You never not. Yeah. Is there enough alcohol in the universe to get you to watch that?

No. Yeah, I get it. Yeah, I get it. And to clarify, because I know you talked to, I think Holly Report the other day, so while you support James and your friends, 100%, you haven't seen that film for whatever reason. Yeah, I just, I honestly, it's just, you know,

look, it's a personal thing, you know, for me. Like, I want, I want success for them. And I think that, you know, I trust James' like aesthetic and like his take. It's a very kind of, you know, he has a very particular way of making movies and like looking at things. And so yeah, it's just the, yeah, it's just the, it's just the, it's just the difficulty. It's wrapped up another.

Yeah. It's got a lot of baggage. Yeah. And no supergirl, no, no lanterns. You're not watching any of them. No. Yeah. I get it.

I get it. Are you ever? I mean, it's meaned all over my ex peat. So you've seen a fits and piece. Yeah. It's crazy. Are we ever going to see you like take on like the, um, Excalibur kind of world, the Arthurian myth, which I know you have.

Hold So dear. You love that film. Yeah, I do love that film. If you noticed in the movie last night, there's a lot of Excalibur references. Sure. But yeah, I don't know. I have something that I like a property that I that I was working on that kind of goes into that a little bit. Okay. So maybe. Are there, I mean, like I mentioned, like Rebel Moon was there for a while. This has been out there for a while. Like, what's the one now? Like, is there another one that's been decades in the making that is still kind of percolating on the Fountainhead. Fountainhead is still on the list. Fountainhead is absolutely on the list, yeah.

Wow. I really feel like it's a good time for Fountainhead. By the way, right, I wish I had Fountainhead ready to release on the heels of this. What a double way. It would be a perfect. You thought I was crazy. Yeah, exactly.

I just feel like, you know, because I've written it as the 12 part. Like I've written 10 of the 12 episodes. So it would be a series. It's like a limited series. I have the original series. script. I've always been, you know, I'm a, I'm a, look, you know, I'm an apologetic fan of fountainhead. I don't care. I like, yeah. I saw Brad Pitt the other day say like, he is like not a fountain head thing. Oh, I didn't hear of that. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, bro. You want to talk to him.

He likes architecture. And like, I always said like any director, and I'm sure this is fine, it's like whatever it is what it is. But there's like, you know, I just think that it's, it's, it's, It's one of those things like, there's not a lot of books for architects out there, you know. Right. Like probably, you know, all the, all the kids who love architecture, the re-foundenhead are like, that's my, this is my thing. Yeah. And then they're told by like their teacher in their liberal arts college that they're not allowed to like fountainhead.

So then they have to put it aside. But then they secretly read it in the quiet. So how like? But anyway, so I've written a 10 of the 12. Yeah. And, you know, I had like a whole, it's just one of these things that I've, I, I started writing it in like 2018. Okay. So not, it's not like a super, no, but it's not super long time.

But it's a lot, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a lot of work, you know, to write it to adapt it. Although what I was going to say is I had, because I, you know, I'd always been sort of trying to develop it maybe as a movie. Right. You know, and then, um, I. I got a hold of Iron Rand's original script before they cut it down for the movie. But it's like 310 page script. You know, it's like a really dense script. So I used that script to help me edit the whatever she kind of edited.

Yeah. Like the storylines that she felt like weren't in the movie. Because it's not every single thing, you know, because it looks like 700 pages. Right. So there are a few edits I made, not crazy. Okay. And I use that as sort of the way through the process. So are you is the idea to finish out the 12 scripts and then go out with it?

Are you like trying to like find a place? I don't know. I have some ideas on how to make it. So not the iPhone for this one. Not the iPhone. Not the iPhone. I've talked to a lot of there's a lot of strangely there's a lot of like very powerful, very wealthy people that like found that. I'm sure.

So, you know, there's a there's a. There's some interest. Okay. Weirdly, like, you know, you, I took it around, you know, and it was the reaction. It was, it was interesting. I got, let me just say, I sold it to two companies. And then for whatever reason, they came back to me like a week later and we're like, oh, we can't do it. So I think they just, they just, they pulled it up the flagpole and, and everyone was like, what?

You're insane. We can't make a fountainhead. So I'm excited about that. That's a reason to make it right there, by the way. I get it. Is brawler still on the docket? Brawlers, yes. I have brawler.

I have, let's see what else is. What's the other thing? We talked about blood and ashes. Yeah. That's the 300. Yeah. No, no, but yeah, that's the 300. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

300. Oh, that's what became. That sort of began, yeah. So could you still make that as the not 300 thing? I couldn't make it. I own it outright. Okay. Courtney Valenti was my executive.

And she's like, she was really like, she, she was very encouraging. Okay. Of this like homerotic, very, very awesome, very beautiful love story, really, to be honest. Let's be honest. So these guys conquered the world and it's incredible. And so where is Roller out now? And Brawler, well, I just, you know, the UFC is they've got like, you know, this new home at Paramount.

And I think that there's kind of like a as that settles in, I think they're kind of kind of, I'm going to see how that, what that relationship's like. I mean, obviously, it's doing really well. That's a paramount. So that's great. Where are you at? I mean, one of the hotline initiatives, I'm sure you've been asked about this. What's your take on AI these days in terms of like as a tool as something to run away from?

Well, you can obviously like the movie I just made as like barely has any visual effects. Right. So I'm worried on that. It was very organic experience. And I haven't really, you know, look, do I have chat chippy T on my phone? I do. And, you know, like, I think, is it like right now how it's going to be used in cinema in the future? I just hope we're not making, you know, full CG or AI images that are being sold as like, you know,

I think that like once the humans are AI, I'm a little concerned. How's that? Yeah. That's my. That's my. I know it feels simplified, but I think it's the most, I think the humans need to be human. This is the wine and the sand that seems that. Yeah.

It feels like just basic. Yeah. Are you, I know that it's going to, it's going to get muddy and going to get, it's going to get, you know, because visual effects is such a slippery slope. Because visual effects, like, you know, traditional. digital effects and now AI visual effects are very you know that the line between those two things is like very it's blurry and it's hard to put your finger on but you can always say the humans need to be human yeah and that's like I think that's that's for me yeah and I'm look there's a lot of other things and the shots need to be the shots

also I don't need AI telling like making any shots like they should not AI should make no shots. Human should make shots and humans should be in movies. That's kind of how it should be. Are you been a good year in movies? I mean, the rise of horror with the obsessions of the world. I'm sure you've seen Odyssey by now. Your buddy, Chris, his film.

These all inspiring for you as a filmmaker? Oh, yeah. I love that. I like people. I do think that one thing is, I think in response to AI that you might find is that the, and I hope this is true. Yeah. This cinema becomes this sort of certified place to see actually handmade things.

You know, like I think there's, well, I do believe there'll be a resurgence of handmade, you know, whether it be serenics or I don't, I don't know what, but just handmade objects will take a value that they may be lost over over time. And I think movies in that is in the same way, you know, movies made by people, for people in a handmade way. I don't know visual effects or what's happening over here, but as long as it's presented by a person to other people. Yeah. And I think the movie theater itself will be the place where you can be... The ultimate version. You had some sort of stamp that allows you to believe that that's true in there.

I think it is like an inspiring thing right now. It seems like, I mean, I'm going to sound like an old person, but like the fetishization for the younger generation right now around the movie theater experience. Yeah. Like the IMAX, the 70 mill, like the formats. like the practical. It's really kind of cool to see. It's very cool. I like it because it really, it goes back to what I was saying about the handmade thing. It's like all those things are artisan, artisan ingredients. And I think the people can recognize that, you know, and they want

to. Yeah. And I think it's cool. We're going to end with this. I've done this with some filmmakers and actors that have amazing filmographies. I'm going to put your films up against each other. You're going to choose the best acts of signer film of all time, bracket style. Oof, you ready? I guess. All right, Dawn of the Dead versus 300. What do you choose? Oh. I got to go 300.

Okay. Now, Steele versus BBS. Those two, you really want to do that? I know. It's strong. Directors cut of course. Obviously, yeah. BBS.

Okay. Justice League versus Watchmen. Fuck. That's rude. You've done this to yourself. That's rude. I know it is. Justice League.

Okay. Sucker Punch versus Rebel Moon. Oh. Director's got so course. Yeah, always. I'm going to say Rebel Moon. Okay. So now it's Rebel Moon versus Justice League.

Justice League. And then it's 300 versus BBS. BVS. And now for all the marbles. BVS versus Justice League. The greatest is Axe and I were at them of all time. According to Zach's... I would have to say Justice League.

All right. Yeah. You got to go with the dream. Yeah. The one that couldn't be stopped. Watchman could have snuck in there, but it's it's... I didn't know what to do. I didn't know where...

Yeah, it should have been Watchman versus Justice League in the end. We'll do that next time. That's fine. Today it's Justice League. Today it's Justice League, it is. All right. Always a fun time chatting with you, especially like this is like a moment in time. We will always remember, I think.

This is a moment in time. I'm excited. The discourse continues. The discourse always continues. I know you'll find you. a great home for this one. Congratulations on the last photo ground. Thank you. And thanks to those for the time, man.

Cheers, brother. Appreciate you. That's fun. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't to do this by Josh. Oh, please, not that music.

That music gives me nightmares from my childhood. Could we get something a little bit like? Some lighter music here. Are you a fan of true crime TV shows? And what about Unsolved Mysteries? The show that jumped started all of our love of true crime. I'm Ellen Marsh. And I'm Joey Taranto.

And we host, I Think Not, a true crime comedy podcast covering some of the wildest stories from your favorite true crime can't be TV shows all the way to Unsolved Mysteries. Baby, you will laugh, you will cry. You'll think about true crime in a whole new way, and you'll also ask yourself, who gave these people mics? New episodes of I Think Not are released every Wednesday with bonus episodes out every Thursday on Patreon. And every Monday, you can listen to our True Crime Rundown, where we go over the top true crime headlines of the week. So come and join us wherever you listen to your podcast.