Happy Sad Confused - Zazie Beetz

Episode Date: November 10, 2021

Just 5 short years ago, Zazie Beetz was waiting tables in New York. Now the young actress still lives in New York but she's busy starring in crowd-pleasing films like "Deadpool 2" and "Joker", critically acclaimed shows like "Atlanta", and currently in a dynamic new Western, "The Harder They Fall". Zazie joins Josh to talk about it all, plus her comfort movie, an Audrey Hepburn classic. Don't forget to check out the Happy Sad Confused patreon here! We've got exclusive episodes of GAME NIGHT, video versions of the podcast, and more! For all of your media headlines remember to subscribe to The Wakeup newsletter here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Nights definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear, I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on,

none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now. Today on Happy, Said Confused, Zossi Bates, from Deadpool and Joker to her new film, The Harder They Fall. Hey, guys, Josh Harrow, it's here with another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused, and a new guest to the pod this week,

the very talented Zossi Bates. She is, of course, someone you know and love from TV and film, and all. happening in a very short period of time. In the last five years, Atlanta, Joker, Deadpool, just hitting it out of the park time and time again and currently appearing in a really entertaining new Netflix film that has this amazing ensemble. It's Idris Elbow, it's Jonathan Majors, it's Regina King, it's Del Rey-Lindo, and it's Zossi. It's called The Harder They Fall. This is, I was going to say it's kind of an old-fashioned Western. It is in some respects, but in many respects, it's also a new take on this treasured old genre of film,

maybe the most treasured American genre of film, the Western. James Samuels has created a very stylish, cool Western, populated by actors that sadly have been marginalized in Westerns. Black actors traditionally not very present in the American Western. Well, this film is dominated by them in the best possible. and it's the best slew of actors I can recall in a Western period. So the harder they fall, highly recommended. Zossi's great. She has some really meaty stuff opposite, none other than Regina King, and she is more than equal to the task. A hearty recommendation for it. And it's on

Netflix right now, so check it out. This conversation is fantastic, but I do have a confession to make guys. And it's kind of a cautionary tale for my fellow podcast. out there, maybe don't drink in podcast. Now, don't get too excited. This isn't me just drunkenly rambling through a conversation. But to set the scene, this was a little bit on the later side. And I was like, okay. And it was getting pushed back for a variety of reasons. And I was like, okay, I'm just going to pour myself a drink. I'm not going to blame the drink. But all I know is, for the first 15 minutes of this conversation, your beloved podcaster, Josh Horowitz, did not record. Yeah, it happens to the best of us, guys.

And sadly, it's happened to me twice, basically, in the last couple of years. One was really not my fault at all. This one I'll own. This was my fault. Luckily, Zasi couldn't have been cooler. So what you're going to hear is we restarted the conversation, basically. We just started from scratch. You'll never hear.

No one will ever hear. This is Zossi and I had a special 15 minutes of talking about her background. we'll save that for another time. What you're going to hear today is still a full-fledged, ginormous, 45-minute, juicy chat about her life and career. It just doesn't have the preamble that we discussed in this lost tape of Happy Sack Confused. So that's my confession to you. If I sound a little flustered in the beginning of this conversation,

it's because I am just beating myself up because I can't believe I simply didn't bother to hit record. Just hit record. guys. It's like Joseph Gordon Levitt says. Hit record. Anyway, the conversation that you will hear is fantastic. We talk about her participation in these ginormous superhero franchises. I had a very memorable chat with Zossi a couple years ago before Joker came out and we reference it in this. And I hadn't had a chance to talk to her, like kind of the post-mortem on it. Basically, it was Sundance a couple years ago. Joker was going to come out in a few months. and she was remarkably candid about the production of Joker,

basically saying how they were rewriting like every single day. That got picked up everywhere. There was so much fascination with what Joker was going to be. So it was kind of fun for me to talk to her about it now and realize that, yeah, she got a little shit for it. And she definitely remembers that conversation and what happened with it. But now we can have a good laugh about it because the Joker made, I think, like a billion dollars and got a slew of Oscars.

So not a big deal in the end. Anyway, Zasi has had a fascinating life. She split her childhood between my beloved New York City and Germany. And up until a few years ago, was struggling like many of us were just getting started, waiting tables in New York, before Atlanta came around, before that amazing series from Donald Glover came about. So life has certainly changed a lot for her in recent years. and I was happy to detail it all with her on this conversation. Plus, she does go deep on her favorite comfort movie, which is a stone cold classic, breakfast at Tiffany's,

another solid choice from a great guest. Okay, other stuff to mention. My Kristen Stewart conversation is up and about in the, in the, I was going to say the metaverse, but I don't want to give credit to Mark Zuckerberg's newly rebranded. Facebook. It's on YouTube. It's on the social medias. A great chat with Kristen to catch up about Spencer, a film that is going to definitely be one of my favorites of 2021 and could land her and Oscar. Anyway, I jokingly said to Kristen it was our 500th conversation. Maybe not that,

but maybe our 100th. I don't know. We've talked a lot. So that's a great chat. That's on MTV News's YouTube page. If you check out my social media, I've sent it out. So you'll be able to see it there. What else? What else? We're getting closer. I know you guys are, some of you guys are very excited for the Sam Hewan comedy Central sketch that I taped that I've teased. We're getting there. It's, it's being edited. I've seen cuts of it. It's super funny. We're just getting it right and getting it ready to be delivered to you in the right, in the right time frame, which is very soon. So patience on that. Some really cool conversations coming up on the podcast. That's that cool time of year. when really good movies are coming out and really great guests are available. So I am psyched about what is to come in the last few weeks of the year that was 20.21. Okay, I guess we might as well just get to the main event, right, guys? This is my conversation with the lovely and talented Zossi Bates. Yeah, you're going to hear Josh a little off his game for the first minute because, damn it.

Hit that record button, guys. Always learn from me. Uh, here's me and Zossi. For those listening to the podcast, this is take two with Zossi Bates. Take two. Yeah, we didn't record, but that's all good. Now we're going to, you know, freshen it up. Now we're going to do it for real.

I've got my nagroney. So obviously this is the, here's the thing. That's a problem. One podcast. Um, that's so sad. It was gold too. You delivered gold. But let's just dive right in.

You're back here in New York, where you belong. How about this? Let's start with the harder they fall in this time, just to keep it to make it. Okay, sure. Yeah, okay. So you're in this awesome new movie, which I'm just so curious, like, how something like this reads on the page when you receive it. Like, because there's so much style dripping off of the screen in this, the music, the visual scheme of things, the split screens at times. Like, is that all there?

Like, how much of the movie that you see now was in the movie? the script that was delivered to you for The Harder They Fall? Well, you know, in a way, I guess all movie making is like, you know, you get some stuff in the script, but then the final product is always kind of a little bit of a mystery that reveals itself to you. But I think a lot of the style of The Harder They Fall was definitely written into the script, which is also an element that drew me to the film. James, who's our director, when I spoke with him after they approached me for stagecoach

Mary, I felt very clear, or it was very clear to me that he had a very specific vision, kind of how he wanted to shift the narrative around the Western and how it's going to look and sound. And particularly, you know, he works very closely with Jay-Z and sort of all of the music ventures. And so James is an incredibly musical person. And so a lot of, I think he wrote almost all of the songs, or co-wrote at least, almost all of the songs in the soundtrack and in the film. And he also wrote a lot of that into the script already. So you kind of feel that and see that. That was a part of it. And while we were shooting, he, you know, he plays guitar. And so in rehearsals, he would be playing the sort of mood music as we were going through stuff.

that's unusual you don't usually get that um and then in between takes we're often playing music and stuff and you know certain things as we were shooting it i was aware like this was going to be in a split screen situation you know where they're like oh this is what we're getting this reaction so that we can like line them up and do this blah blah so yes to a degree but then you know once it's all kind of puzzled together it it becomes something new and it becomes you know, the script is just the blueprint for something much bigger and more vibrant. And so I had an idea, but of course, seeing it and feeling it and hearing it, it was definitely a different experience. But I liked that it was trying something different. And so I wanted to

kind of be a part of that. Yeah, I mean, I always say I like the big swings, whether they connect or not, at least try for something. And this one does actually both tries for it and it connects. Um, you're also in the company of this insane, insane group of actors. Like every, you know, if you're not into one, wait two minutes. Someone else amazing is going to pop up on sky. Like, and you should be into all of them from, from Jonathan Majors to Idris, to Regina. Um, everyone is in Delroy, Lindo, of course. Yeah. Um, is it, is it more intimidating to be on horseback or play a scene opposite Regina King and listen to you like a monologue from Regina. I think the, I think, I think, acting alongside somebody you know it's pretty nerve-wracking if you don't have like a good

rapport you know because I feel like um honestly everybody on this set was just so lovely and particularly you know I feel like Regina and I really created this like big sister little sister sort of bond and um you know as we were also working through our fight scene you know her and and I really sort of spearheaded the rehearsal process on that. There was just a lot going on set, a lot of COVID. And so we were kind of taking the charge on like making sure that scene would work out. And that really sort of, I don't know, it was a really great bonding experience. And then everybody on set is just really great people.

And so that element of sort of the fear, I think, got chased out pretty quickly. I will say, though, in terms of the horseback riding, I did horseback ride sometimes. a kid not really not never like I never took classes but I would visit these farms and they had it was they'd be like dairy farms and stuff and they had horses and they would just like throw the kids on them and you know and so I I had that kind of thing already so I was like no I know to do this so you're not the actor that puts on the resume and lies about like oh yeah I can no that was actually on my resume and yeah it was not a lie I was always too scared to lie about stuff like that.

I can. Is it, is it, is it, you mentioned, we mentioned the music. Is it cool or lame to listen to a soundtrack from your own movie? Being that I listened to it yesterday,

I think it's really cool. Cool. It's good cool. Yeah, it's out on Spotify if you want to listen to it. It's great, a really great mix of people. Jay Z,

Lauren Hill, Barrington, Livy, just great group. Yeah, when in doubt about, how to pick projects, just associate yourself with cool people. It's okay to listen to the soundtrack.

It might be lame to watch your movie over and over and over again. Right. But I'm not chating anyone who does that, but I'm usually a one and done kind of person. But, you know, listen, maybe one day I'll meet my, you know, my match and just be like, wow, I did a great job. I'm not going to catch you on the plane, just tearing up watching your performance in Deadpool, too? No, you know, I always love when people watch it, though, and I, like, walk by them in the aisle, and I'm like, it is funny to have, like, multiple movies on airplanes or something, and then you're like, I see myself.

But anyway, why don't we talk about that? Let's move on. No, more about that. I mean, it strikes me, you know, we haven't had this kind of, like, long-form chat much, or at all, rather, talked to you a couple times in the last few years. And it's really only been a few years for you to be in these kind of high profile projects. Does it feel like, I mean, it's basically been five years, essentially, I think, since we were cast in Atlanta, right? Yes, yes. Does it feel like it happened quickly or did it feel like you were like toiling forever, waiting for something like Atlanta to come around?

I feel like it happened very quickly. I booked my agent, my first agent, and I got really lucky with who. I ended up with. In September of 2014, I had, and then I booked the pilot of Atlanta in June of 2015. And after that was picked up for, and that whole time I was working, like I had a day job and I was working full time. Around the time, I booked the pilot. I was able, I had done another film and I had to quit my job in order to do the film and I was like well like you know let's see I'm going to do this for the next month and then we'll see what happens after like you know I was like I yeah I wanted to do the movie and I couldn't be at my job and so I sort of took that leap

and honestly was fully expecting to have to go back to serving and and then you But in the meantime, we shot the pilot. I booked the pilot while I was shooting that movie. And that gave me a little bit more buffer because then I got paid for the pilot. And then when the pilot got picked up to series, that was starting top of 2016. And so that buffered me out.

And then since then, it's been kind of a, it's been a go. So I will say I did feel like it was all very, very fast. And I felt, I think, emotionally definitely unprepared. Sorry, that's me. Let me put that all good. disturb and felt emotionally definitely unprepared but then also incredibly like fortunate and lucky and I don't know kind of an awe of how quickly everything unfolded and yeah so I do feel like you know I definitely had my time where I was running around and and working multiple jobs

and doing short films and everything for free and, you know, carrying around multiple outfits with me and doing my makeup on the train and like, you like, I, you know, I was definitely, I had that experience, but I graduated from that very, very quickly. And initially, I had wish for like a longer time. But now I, you know, I'm really glad that I had the experience I've had and I think have also been able to like become more comfortable and where I am right now on my work and, you know, doubting less my like place in the industry. I think I used to have really, really big like. Yeah. And of course I still do. But I, you know, I think it also happens with like,

getting older a little bit, you know, I just turned 30 and I think it's just like a general sense of like just a little bit more confidence as I get older and and learning how to communicate. And I also feel like, I don't know, you know, as people also ask me to work with them again, then I'm like, oh, okay, maybe it was a good experience for them, you know? And I think I need time to like get through those projects and be like, do they hate me? do they don't hate me and I, you know, I just didn't really know. And now it's just starting where I'm like, oh, okay, people do enjoy working with me and they want to work with me again. And so I couldn't have let them down that badly. And I probably, I shouldn't need that external

validation, but I think all of us do to a degree want it. Maybe not everybody, but yeah. So I'm working on that. And I think I'm better than I was. But you know, I've still always got room to grow always did you get the like when you get Atlanta did you get like the momentous like I'm quitting my job my final kind of like day job moment like go into the restaurant and be like I just look this awesome show with Donald Glover no because at that point I had already quit so I had quit for this movie I did called Wolves by my Bart Freundlich and that was actually I, yeah, quitting was sort of, I had tried to postpone. I tried to be like, can I take a month?

Like, I cannot do both at the same time. And they were like, not happy about that. And so I was like, fine, I guess I got to go. They were actually very, very bitter about me leaving, but I was like, I. So we named the restaurant? Which restaurant was it? I don't want to name the restaurant. The restaurant was really good food.

So you were at, I think, I don't think it's around anymore, but I remember enjoying Cafe Mogadour back in the day. Yeah. Cafe Mogadour is still around. Is it not? I thought it was gone. Oh my God. Is it gone? No, I don't think it's gone. Did I just name it? Okay, never mind. Okay. I don't think it's gone. I've worked at multiple places, but okay. So I'm not confirming or denying me. It must be welcome in all places. Um, Cafe Mogadour. Um, I think it's still there. I think my friend ate there like a week ago. Oh, good. Great food if you ever want like Moroccan sort of stuff. But I, yeah, I quit and they, yeah, they were very bitter about me leaving. And, but I left because I was like, this is what I want to be doing. And, you know, if I need another job,

I'll just apply and be barista somewhere else or whatever. So yeah, so I did that. And I didn't really know what was going to happen after. But in the meantime, I was still auditioning. And then I got the pilot and that got me another track, as I said. And so yeah. And when I booked the show, obviously, you know, I was very excited about the like Donald Glover, Childish Gambino aspect, but none of us knew it was going to be. Oh, you never know. How can you? Yeah. Yeah. And also, you know, it was also like just the pilot, right? So it wasn't, it hadn't been ordered to series yet. I don't think I was aware how many pilots don't make it. Like I was lucky the first pilot I booked made it. Like that's really lucky. And, um, you know, I don't know. It was a reason I, I booked

Domino. Like, I do often feel like I've had a very, I don't know how I was to say this, but I always growing up, I just always felt like things were going to work out. And I don't know if it's maybe because I'm kind of like, I feel like I have a loose grip. on things like i'm sort of very kind of like flighty like not really committal and i i feel like i am good in like switching of plans and changing things and in like unsteady kind of situations and so i feel like i i don't know i've always felt like i kind of and i don't want to jinx anything but i always felt like no matter what happened i always ended up landing on my feet And, um, I wonder if that also applies to like the audition process.

Like so when you walk into an audition, even if it means a lot to you, do you kind of like, I wonder if that translates as like, not like I don't give a fuck, but like, I'll be okay. If I don't get this, I'll be okay. I do feel that way. I actually really love, I love auditioning, actually. I always, that was almost, which I'm glad I did. I really enjoyed like, um, going into a room and feeling like, I'm going to just, show them what I'm going to do and just kind of I just sort of would just like ball to the wall

just like do something and then leave and be like all right and after every audition I would like buy myself a little treat or something like I was always very like I'm just going to show them and then I'm going to leave and that'll be what it was and I and I felt very free in that versus then when I actually booked stuff I actually was like oh my God like what did I do what do I have to replicate you know, it was a mistake, then I would kind of get an overdrive. But, and, you know, maybe I, I can say this because I, um, I didn't spend, I think as long of a time as some other people really, you know, pushing for something. My door opened pretty early in my career. And I think I would probably feel differently about that had I had to, um, had I, had I,

had I needed to spend more more time kind of like really grinding in that or hustling in that way, I guess. So yeah. But what happened in the audition room at for Deadpool too? That's just like, because I mean, you were going up against reportedly like really big names. I don't know if you were aware of that at the time or not. You obviously knew this was a high profile film and a high profile role. Yes, that I, you know, I definitely, it was a mix of definitely like, I definitely felt nervous, but then I also felt like, listen, I'm going to just do what I can do. And that's what that's all I can do. And, you know, I was loosely aware. They don't always share who, you know, I was going against. I knew like one or two names. And, but I figured I was like, I guess, you know, there's a reason. I guess they're calling me as well. I don't know. I, at that point, Atlanta had already come out.

And so I felt like, I felt like, okay, like I've had one thing that's really sort of worked out for me in terms of work. And I don't know. I felt kind of like, I don't know, I felt kind of like, all right, like, I did something great. Like other things are like like icing or cherry on the Sunday, you know. And so I think maybe that I don't know if I don't, I don't really know. But I did. So I met with, I met with David Leach and Ryan. We just had a meeting and it was really lovely meeting.

And then I read for it and just kind of again, I think I just, I walked into the room. I was like, I'm just going to go for it. And I went for it. But then I also, like, I'm also somebody, if I'm in an audition and I've always been this way, if I'm like, if I feel like I did a bad job, I'm like, I'm doing it again. And I just, I'm like, I just tell them. I don't know. I go with.

Yeah. I'm like, all right. I didn't like that. I'm going to do it again. And I remember doing that in Deadpool. I think I asked like three or four times. And they're like, I think it's okay. And I was like, all right.

I don't know. Like, we have three other actors to talk to. So we're on a step here. And I remember. leaving and being like, all right, like, I guess, you know, hopefully that'll work out. And if not, then not. Or even like in Joker, that was a multiple audition thing where I originally, there was like a lot of stuff going on and I originally actually didn't book the role.

And then I was like, I really want this. And so I self-tape and sent it again. And so I kind of was like, I don't know what that says about me. I can't have it now I really want it really want it yeah maybe but yeah I don't I don't know I don't know if you recall this

I chatted with you I think it was at Sundance and Joker hadn't come out yet and your comments were very honest about the process and they kind of circulated everywhere it was kind of do you remember this you were basically saying I didn't remember that there was some rewriting and you've been awesome this happens

I don't know if we got into trouble about that. I apologize if you did. There were some conversations. I remember thinking, as you were saying, and I'm like, oh, my God, oh, my God. She's terrible. You know, there were some conversations, but it all got smoothed out. And I think in the end, you know, I think because it all worked out that it became, I think, a larger part of the narrative. But, again, I think people, I don't know if people really realize.

things get rewritten. Yeah. Constantly. It's like a very normal thing to be day of rewriting stuff. Like that's happened to me, I would say, in every project I've worked on. So I think in the moment I didn't really realize what that implication could be to people, that it didn't work, you know. And I think also honestly, I think it also came in a, in a, the stuff we were rewriting,

It didn't feel like this isn't working, nothing is working, we have to change it. It was more like they were discovering more and more her Arthur Fleck was. And that shifted who my character was to him. And so they just wanted to like, I think as they were like getting deeper into it, they were just discovering more. And so I don't know, to me, I think it felt like, oh, cool. Like this is just like a cool shift. But of course, I think as an outsider, you know, you wouldn't necessarily.

But yes, that was, I remember. I remember when that area. Well, yeah, I think, and there's also the thing, like, I think people are more aware of this now. It's like every big studio film, particularly like these superhero films, like, now they build in the reshoots, the additional photography. Yeah, a lot of them. Oh, like, this is like, everything's fucked up. But, like, no, every Star Wars movie, every Marvel movie, it's like, nope. They all do that.

Traditional photography. Yeah, exactly. Particularly after like test audiences and you don't, you know, you don't, you know, you again, like a script is a blueprint and then you, you see it all together and suddenly you're like, oh, this house actually should have a chimney on it too, you know, and you didn't notice that in the drawing of it. But when it's standing 3D in front of you, you're like, oh, maybe you could use another window. And like, it's, it's, yeah, it's a hard thing to just translate what is just black and white

on paper to this completely moving crazy wild contraption and then yeah you watch it back you're like oh you know this and that can shift so yeah reshoots are particularly in big films is definitely i think i mean i don't want this to come off as like a backhanded compliment but like i feel like a lot of people felt this about joker in that like it exceeded all of our like Todd didn't have that on his resume Todd phillips i i've known Todd for a while and he's done some great work, but like just how fully realized that what was and committed to that kind of path. Yeah. And how well executed it was.

I know some people had quibbles with it in different ways, but like, he did what he set out to do. And that's. I have to say, I, um, 10 pages into the script when I first got it, I was like, I must do this film. I had zero, I don't know, reading the script, I was like. I was like, he knows exactly what he's doing. And I felt so confident. And I remember, or I don't know, the movie just honestly meant a lot to me.

And obviously, obviously it's not about my character or anything. And my role is rather small in the film. But I think the journey of Arthur and sort of the other implications around society and sort of support and what that means, like I just really resonating. with me particularly at the time not that Arthur resonates with me but like you know just kind of the thematics I just I just found to be interesting and and and I remember getting on social media some people being like this is going to not work blah blah and I remember there was one person I don't usually really comment by one person I was like I really think you're

going to like it and then I remember when the movie came out they wrote me back and they said, I remember when you said you were, I was going to like it. And I saw it. You were right. I liked it. And I was like, oh, my gosh. And I, you know, I just felt, you know, everything to me was there on the page. And I've found generally, if you have a really strong script, it works out. And if you don't have a really strong script, I found it doesn't really work out. And that has been, I think, definitely my, like, I definitely feel very, I like to attach myself to projects that I feel like now where I'm like really, really confident in the script or, you know, whatever is being sort of tried for. Because, yeah, it's the, again,

it's a skeleton for everything. And you need the strong foundation. The few times I've had the honor of talking to Denzel Washington, but the most off-repeated phrase he always gives in a conversation with me and others when you're talking about any potential project is if it ain't on the page, it ain't on the stage. And he's just like... That is so true. And I think it takes a while to realize that

because you're always like, oh, you know, but this person's working on the da-da-da. If it's not on the page, it really, where else is it going to come from? You know, like, you really do need that. And I also feel like sometimes I'll be like, oh, we'll work on it. And then it doesn't usually happen or I don't know you know but um you know that being said is that's not always the case so there's examples where that didn't happen yeah but they're few and far between so where are you at

in terms of I know you're pestered with these kind of questions all the time but I'm just curious like the future for domino a potential future in another joker film are you hearing rumblings on either front lately or are you kind of just like if it either happens I'm around but you know where to find me or yeah i'd say more of that so i don't um i don't know if anything's happening or not but i would absolutely um absolutely if if sequels for anything um or domino and joker specifically um i would love to revive domino and i would love to revive sophy so um yes call me call me if you have thoughts I am around, and I am currently unemployed. So, call me.

Should we talk some comfort movies? As you know, I've been asking folks for comfort movies. I think it's a telling question to ask, and I love talking about old good movies. And the one I wanted to talk about, if you're cool with, the one that you mentioned, hasn't been brought up yet, but it's a stone cold classic. You chose breakfast at Tiffany's.

Why? I did. um i think i there was a time sort of in high school and through college i just watched that movie a lot um i think it partially has to do with you know i think everybody owned like a you know a rotation of DVDs and that was one of them um but i think i felt very connected to to the holly go lightly character again i think i mentioned before i'm kind of this emotionally this kind of like i think i can be kind of non-committal very if you're not in front of me very sort of out of sight out of mind like i feel like i'm very present with people who are here um but i'm like

all over the place with my phone and you know i'm always like gosh why don't i hang out with these friends more like I love them so much and then as soon as I'm gone I'm like oh I don't know I'm just sort of where I'm at and feeling I think at the time I felt very like my freedom and my untethered self was what I valued the most and not feeling bound by people not feeling bound yeah bound by anything I I still identify a lot with that and wanting to just be in the world and see the world and and have no one box me in, I guess, as she says. And I just really like, I think her character just, I just really resonated with her. And I think, you know, I was like a young woman who I love to dress up and I loved to play

roles. And I felt like that's who she was as well, you know, pretending to kind of be these different people trying to, trying, you know, to kind of keep these different identities separate. And I think I sometimes have had this as well where like growing up, I didn't really so much have like a big group of friends. I was always like at this table, this table, just sort of all over kind of like a floater. And I didn't really like integrating my family into my friends or like my relationships into my family, like, I just felt like I just, I was kind of just like I could be all these different people in a way. And, and I feel like Holly was like that. And the ending, for some reason, I just always felt so moved by it. I'd always cry every time. And I was just thinking of it now,

like her fear her like utter fear to be boxed and to realize that love shouldn't be that um you know obviously it's like it's simplified in the film and obviously there's you know issues with like the mr unyoshi character and stuff like that which you know was very apparent to me um even as i watched it when I was younger and was cringy, but I think I really focused in on the Audrey Hepburn and her sort of like ethereal spirit and me, I think, finding, finding myself in that and, and yeah,

so yeah, I did why I love breakfast at Tiffany's very much. It's an interesting film in that, like I feel like it transcends like, I feel like a lot of people haven't even seen the movie, but feel like they know the movie, or they at least know that character. They know the iconic imagery. They know Moon River.

Yeah, exactly. Moon River, and it's also, it's this New York story, you know, which obviously I identified with. I'm also very, very, like, into, I love period pieces. The other movie I suggested was Pride and Prejudice, which I love. Yeah. And I think also a part of me growing up, I think I felt like

I think I can speak more to this on like if I was talking about pride and prejudice really but like feeling like oh you know black actors aren't really in those stories and so I feel like I was sort of like obsessed with them because it was my act I don't know it was my only access point to them or I don't know why but I always felt like

it wasn't available to you as a yeah and it's like that made it that much more seductive or yeah so i'm actually really glad with how that's changing now like it makes me euphoric honestly because i you know i've been sort of developing some stuff um with me my partner david we've been like writing and putting stuff together and like it's all like period that i'm just you know i just find it fascinating and how people move and speak differently and uh the dress up element and also i don't know just find it interesting And I think there was that element, too, of the, like, The Breakfast at Tiffany's, like, this old, beautiful, I don't know, nostalgic version of New York, I guess, in a way, what it was versus what it is now.

Well, whatever. But, yeah, it's also interesting how different the book is actually from the movie as well, which I don't think a lot of people realize that it. It's from the Truman Capote novella. Yeah, for those who don't. Exactly. It's a Truman Capote story and the lead character who's like, who, it's from the more the, the man's point of view. And he, if I'm not mistaken, it's, it's implied that he's also gay and they weren't lovers, but there was like love. And it was this very interesting, very different take.

I haven't read the, I read the book once a long time ago, so I don't quite remember the details because they're so different. But, yeah, I remember finding that really interesting as well. You were talking about developing stuff. And I'm curious, I mean, the stuff you were just talking about harkens back to frankly the harder they fall, which was like part of the power of seeing a story like this is we haven't seen black actors.

We haven't seen women get like these kinds of roles. in this like one of the most iconic important genres of film and that in and of itself is like there's a power to like seeing something on screen that you're like oh wait I've never even somebody even I've never seen this and and and I mean it's happening over and over it's a great feeling like it's happening I can I can think of a lot of examples in recent years of like different variations on that same theme so it sounds like it's emboldening you and exciting you as you kind of develop your own material. Yeah, it definitely is.

I'm definitely feeling very inspired by that. And also, I think I would have done it anyway. And now I'm like, oh, okay, like, there's an audience for it. Yeah, exactly. You know, that was sort of my, I was already, like, I'm very in, yeah, I was already into that, like, I was really into, like, costume construction. Like, I was very into this.

And maybe it's also, like, It's different in theater too, right? Like there, I think theater is a little bit more, there's more blind casting element to theater than there is in film and television. And so I think, you know, and especially if you're doing like, I never have actually, I haven't actually ever done theater professionally and, you know, I've only done like community theater and in my high school. And so that is a very different sort of experience in terms of like who's getting cast as what.

And so I feel like that, you know, itch was getting scratched in that way and of doing things of like different time periods and, you know, Shakespearean and whatnot. And so I think I was already like, if I make stuff, that's what I'm going to lean into. And luckily, I guess I'm not the only one. And so I, yeah, I'm very happy to see it. Meanwhile, on a different side of the coin of different kinds of projects, you have re-teamed with David Leach, sounds like. Yeah, bullet train. Bullet train sounds bananas.

Like, just like from, I haven't seen like an image and anything, but just from the cast list. And what I know sounds like it's going to be pretty impressive. What can you say about? I don't know. What I can say, I think it'll be a good, fun ride for lack of a better pun. And Brian, Tyree Henry's in it as well, who, you know, it was in Atlanta. And he, you know, he's just so talented and Brad so talented.

Just like, yeah, a great group was also nice because the whole, a good part of the crew was the same crew as Deadpool and so going to said it was like oh my gosh hi hi hey and it felt really nice um and you know she's just dropping Brad's name not no last name needed just dropping Brad like it's no big thing he's in the movie um and you know I think yeah that was just fun that was like a fun thing for me to hop in on and um it was nice to do something like for laughs and a good time and Yeah, I hope people enjoy it. I haven't seen anything or nothing at all. So, but yes, I don't even, I don't know when it comes out. I'm sure they're figuring it all up. What do you, what do you, what do you watch? Like, is it a mixed bag? Like, are you going highbrow, low brow, reality, drama, like all over the place or is it, is it all kind of in one way? I think, I think, I do, okay, I would say in my, like, I like, I don't know, like, I don't know, like, I don't know, like, I don't know, like, I don't know, like, I love a good.

you know i um stuff like succession and um i what have i been watching i don't even know what i don't know what i'm trying to think don't worry this is the question that thumps me the most like i'm paid to watch things and i'm like i can't answer you i know it's weird like i'm like what am i watching i like rick and morty too nice um i will say though i think i watch more movies than i do TV. I really want to watch the last duel. I want to see

French dispatch. What else have I seen? I don't know. But I will say also like I feel like maybe I'm like high brow, I guess in that way. Maybe like basic, but like TV and film.

Like I don't, besides like Great British Breakoff, I don't really watch that much reality um television um but i i watch a lot of youtube so i don't know you know if that's like that's my like turn my head off at night like i don't if i'm tired something i don't i don't like to watch like a tv show you know i just want to watch something that just turns my brain off and and then i'm i kind of like get into youtube holes so that's my i guess my my low brow stuff what's the last can you think about YouTube rabbit hole you've fallen down recently um gosh well I'm not going to reveal all of us she's trying to maintain her cool demeanor right um I have the

brand to upkeep here no no I'm not trying to brand anything but um what do I watch I mean honestly I'm I'm very like ASMRI um I'm really into like this is not even that embarrassing. It's not the most embarrassing thing. I engage it on YouTube. But I like like ASMR cooking stuff. So like things that are like no music and just like the sounds of like the whisketing the bowl and like cracking eggs and that I find really satisfying. And particularly if I'm like wanting to go to sleep, I want to go, I want to fall asleep. I watch a lot of cooking stuff, cooking, baking. I've been really into like traditional. Chinese cooking, like this movement. Anyway, blah, blah, blah. Moving on.

You're also, I will give you on the, on the more like kind of contributing to society level, I want to give you props because I know you, you've made an effort to kind of like be involved in the climate calamity that we're facing in our world. My wife works through the NRDC and I know you've done some work. Oh, she says. Oh, cool. I love that. Something close to, close to our, should all our hearts considering it's, oh, I don't know, just the world at stake, the future of our planet. You haven't had a baby recently, have you? I'm like, do I never, do you wife? Okay. I do have a baby dog, which is basically a baby. It is. Did you grow up though in terms of like either of your parents or both your parents in terms of like a socially, politically active household? Or did

did you kind of find that on your own as you kind of, I don't know, kind of life? Huh. I would say my parents were socially and politically active in a way that, like, I think, to a degree, like the average person is. You know, I would say more my mom than my dad, like I remember as a child, we went to like the women's march in Washington and you know she was always very um she worked in sort of like the social work space and so she was very about like empowerment of women and

and and black women and girls and sort of ended programming around that also did programming for sort of young men and their rehabilitation so like kind of like in the home home and in the, and in like women's, um, rights. I would say my mom was active. Um, and you know, I think obviously had political points of views and advocated here and there, but it wasn't, um, like, I don't know. I wasn't, um, I would always go with her and vote and stuff like that. But I feel like that's like normal, you know, I don't think it's anything outside of sort of an ordinary experience. And. I wouldn't vote with my dad because he's not a citizen.

And he was, I think, a little bit more removed also from, like, U.S. politics, I suppose, and stuff like that. Right. But I will say, I think both of my parents, you know, I was always very interested and I was always aware of, like, the climate and conserving water and turning the light off and, like, not wasting and sort of. you know animal welfare and stuff as i've gotten older though i think you know i think a lot of kids are like that though too where you realize it goes beyond just like turning off the light when you leave the room um and i was very very like militant as a kid about littering and like i got in trouble with my cousin because i yeah i was i was like six or seven i yelled at him because he left the water running when he was brushing his teeth and we got in like a huge fight about it and i think he bit me anyway

So I, and I remember I was very like that wasn't, you know, but I think that's again is like also like sort of the simplified child's point of view or in high school even. Like I remember seeing people, they would like throw stuff in the halls. I'm like, why? What are you doing? That would really irritate me. So I guess I had that. I don't know. And now it's just it's grown.

But to be fair. I honestly, people often ask me if they think I'm like a political artist and I don't actually think I am. I think that I just talk about things that are interesting to me or important to me and I'm just trying to be myself and I don't know if that, you know, and I honestly actually doing the show actually really puts me out of my comfort zone and I'm like, trying for something there um you know i don't feel like interviewing people is really hard as you know and it takes like a skill set that i like i haven't trained for you know and i recognize i have a platform and so i'm like why not try to use it my partner david rizdall really is kind of i think

he's like the producer of it like he he like gets all the guests that he puts the whole thing together um i want to say it was really kind of of his brainchild and we like did it you know we made it happen together um um but i think it's also good like i i also like honestly i feel like i've learned a lot through the show which has been so cool things i didn't know or realize or even sort of the hope in it like there are people that are engaging and doing things um you know in it you know to not focus just on the doom and gloom and gloom. Right.

So, yeah, I, I, but I don't know, maybe that does make me a political artist, but I've never had an interest in politics. I don't think that's my strong suit. Like, I, I'm not a good public speaker. I'm like not, I'm very, like, I feel very protective of my inner self. And like, I feel like to be, I don't know, you have to really. put yourself out there. And so I guess I don't think of myself that way, but maybe I am. I don't know. I was going to say, I do think it's part of the, hopefully the prerequisites of just being a decent

human in 2021 is to just have some awareness and participation and not focus just completely inwardly. It doesn't need to require, you know, being out on the front lines every day. There are different, you know, there are different ways to do it. But, I mean, it's, you know. But, you know, I would actually love to be more engaged in the front lines. Like, I think I'm very, you know, honestly, like, there's a lot of things that I'm interested in. And, like, I've reached out to different organizations and, like, how can I help? How can I do stuff?

Sort of across the board and, like, women's rights for productive rights and, like, in climate and stuff. And the response I get all the time is post about it. And I'm always like, oh, like, yeah, you're like, not what I want to do. Like, I want to. And, you know, maybe this is just me needing to self. motivate more like I want to go I want to like be with people and like I want to plant trees and I want to like I don't know I want to be more sort of physically active versus feeling like my power is just my Instagram account I don't I just it just doesn't I don't know that just doesn't really

calculate to me but maybe it is that anyway but that's what I like I guess with the C-Tox climate I'm like probing that element or that platform or that part of I guess where my responsibility is and and trying to, you know, yeah, I guess do a difference I can make in that and that way, I guess. All I would say is don't diminish what you're doing because unlike me, I think you've recorded everything you've ever done on Instagram. forgot to hit record on the brilliant first. For those that want to know about Zossi's

amazing background and fascinating background, we'll save that for the next conversation in New York and Germany. We've left some on the table for the next chat. Didn't you get some on your voice memo thing, though? Yeah, but they're just going to hear my end talking to myself. Oh. I don't want to tell them that story.

We want it in your own voice. Don't worry. It's good to save some for the next chat. Congratulations on the new film, the harder they fall on Netflix. No, honestly, it's such a, like a great piece of work in every respect. It's just like great movie making, great actors, a story worth telling. Two thumbs up from me.

And this has been great to chat today. Hopefully you didn't say anything incriminating. No, I hope not. Well, I think my publicist is on here, so she'll let me know. If you hear like a five-minute gap in the conversation, guys, you'll know something amazing. It was something really bad. Thanks again for the time, and I'll see you around New York, hopefully. Yeah, thanks, Josh.

And again, really nice talking to you. It's always really honestly a real pleasure. And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh. The Old West is an iconic period of American history and full of legendary figures whose names still resonate today.

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