HardLore - 12 Hits From Hell: Inside The Lost MISFITS Album

Episode Date: November 14, 2024

A HardLore Investigative Special… In this incredibly special deep dive, we sit down with an important name in Misfits history: Tom Bejgrowicz, formerly of Caroline Records. When the band sued Danzig for nearly 20 years of back payment for performance royalties, Caroline Records stepped into the foot the bill… in exchange for owning the entire Misfits discography. Enter then lower level Caroline employee Tom Bejgrowicz, who’s intimate knowledge and passion for The Misfits landed him the nearly impossible task of creating the formal releases for the Misfits’ intended debut LP “Static Age”, their legendary discography Coffin Boxset, and eventually their even more legendary lost 2nd LP, “12 Hits From Hell”… Which was cancelled right before its official release. We were lucky enough to have Tom personally tell us the incredible story of why the band came together to stop “12 Hits” from officially releasing.. Enjoy. Get 15% off MADD VINTAGE with code HARDLORE15! https://maddvintage.com/ This episode is brought to you by ATHLETIC GREENS! Try AG1 at athleticgreens.com/HARDLORE to receive a free 1-year supply of vitamin D and 5 travel packs of AG1. HardLore Official Website/HardLore Records store: https://hardlorepod.com Get 20% OFF @manscaped + Free Shipping with promo code HARDLORE at MANSCAPED.com! #ad #manscapedpod FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/hardlorepod/ TWITTER | https://twitter.com/hardlorepod SPOTIFY | https://spoti.fi/3J1GIrp APPLE | https://apple.co/3IKBss2 FOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/colinyovng/ TWITTER | https://www.twitter.com/ColinYovng FOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/bosxe/ TWITTER | https://www.twitter.com/bosxe 00:00:00 - Start 00:04:33 - Meeting the Misfits, and beginning to work with them 00:23:09 - Different lyrics... 00:28:18 - Is there any more unreleased Misfits material? 00:31:18 - Making Fixes 00:33:59 - What came first? Coffin Box or Static Age 00:35:18 - Booklet Layout 00:36:19 - Static Age 00:38:21 - Was this a success? 00:43:32 - Conversations with Glenn regarding Static Age 00:45:56 - 12 Hits from Hell 00:55:16 - Line up changes 01:00:23 - Pardon This Interruption.. 01:04:04 - Who helped with releasing 12 Hits? 01:14:54 - Not Agreeing with liner information 01:22:41 - How long did the development of this take? 01:25:08 - Have you Spoken to Bobby? 01:40:34 - Do you feel the same? 01:46:20 - Favorite Misfits Song 01:48:40 - Are You personally proud? #themisfits   HardLore: A Knotfest Series, Fueled by Monster Energy Edited by Steven Grise • Title sequence by Nicholas Marzluf Join the HARDLORE PATREON to watch every single weekly episode early and ad-free, alongside exclusive monthly episodes. Join the HARDLORE DISCORD for community discussions and to participate in our future Q&A episodes. FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER, SPOTIFY, APPLE FOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAM FOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER   For sponsorship opportunities, email us! [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Subscribe to the all-new hardlore Patreon now for early ad-free access to every episode and an exclusive episode every month. I never thought I was going to do any of this stuff. I thought, I thought honestly that Glenn was going to do it. And I never thought that I would be the one trying to conceive projects and put these things together and do art because Glenn did all that back in the day. So I thought that's how it was going to be. Right. Of course. And but that's very difficult to match up the goals and whatnot of a label with the goals of the

artist with that amount of money and definitely differing opinions. And Jerry and Doyle also had different opinions on what should be done with these things and these masters. And so does that mean that ultimately all parties declined this? Oh yeah, they united over that for sure.

Hello, welcome. It's Hardlord time. How are you, Bo? I'm doing so good. I'm in Portland, Oregon. How are you, Colin? You know, the flu. couldn't stop me, bronchitis couldn't stop me. I need to talk about the misfits today. Yep. Really do, dude. So we have a very special guest here to do that with us. How do I introduce him? Let's see. If you own a copy of static age, this man is partially to thank for that. If you own the misfits coffin box, this man is a huge part to thank for that. If you,

If you own a copy of 12 hits from hell, you might be in prison for the rest of your life. But this man was a huge part of the mythical, lost, infamous misfits album that was supposed to be the 12 hits from hell. Please welcome currently of Man Alive Records, formerly of Caroline Records, Tom Begrowitz. Yeah, well, they nailed it. Thank you very much. I totally knew how to pronounce his last name before. Of course. How are you doing, Tom?

I am doing well. I'm in Athens, Georgia, and you're in Portland. That's right, yeah? Yes, I've been to Athens, Georgia. Oh, okay. On a cannibal corpse tour. Yes, and in fact, my host just told me that a few minutes ago. So there you go, and he saw that.

Yeah, so there you go. That was a good one. Did it like the old Athens? No, but there isn't insomnia cookie, which I went to after the set. Ah. Yeah. Yes. All right.

They're still kicking, huh, insomnia cookies? Fuck yeah, dude. They're open late. They're open later than crumble. So true. That's true. Well, we've brought Tom here today for, this was supposed to be our Halloween special, just so you all know.

But Tom's home internet is haunted. It's haunted. Yes. It's ghastly. So we reorganized and here we are. And this is a record, this is, it's not a real release at this point, but it was supposed to be. But this is the misfits release that got me into the band. That's crazy.

That's full. So thank you, Tom. Explain that, Colin. Explain how you found it. Think about their discography, you know? And how scattered everything is. And how the best recordings of each. songs are on a different thing that never came out or came out later. Hybrid moments didn't

come out until after they broke up. There's all these intricate things that, like, all these roadblocks that you would think would stop the average person from finding this band. That somehow didn't. But for me, 12 hits and the mix that Tom and Alan Duchess did, and the remix, I should say is what finally made it all click for me. Very interesting. So I've just been dying to know why this thing never came to light, but before that. Yeah. That's the end.

Yeah, that's the end. That's the end. Right. Right. I want to know, Tom, how did you get introduced to Glenn and Jerry? And what was the first work you did with the band? Well, I was working at Caroline already, but part of the. distribution side of things. I was a sales rep for a mom and pop record stores around the country.

And at the time, Lyle Preslar of Minor Threat, and then also, of course, Sam Hain, Meatman, was a general manager of the Caroline label. And label and distribution were on the same floor, but they were different, you know, entities. So Lyle kept coming over to me while I was supposed to be making my calls to stores and kept asking me about, okay, And I didn't know why at the time, but he was asking me, what isn't released yet? What songs do you know aren't out there? What should come out? All these kind of things about the misfits.

And what was happening at the time was Glenn, well, no, Jerry, Doyle, Robo, and Frank La Carta, who's Franchet Coma, was his name, of course, on Staticade Sessions. Those four combined money to get a lawyer and go after Glenn for royalty. it's similar in some ways to the claim that the other dead kennedy's members had against jello in a sense that jello had alternative tentacles and of course glenn had plan nine and all the all the royalty checks and checks go to one address and that would be glens and that would have been jellos so um they were suing because they weren't believing the sales numbers and they thought they should be getting a substantial amount of money and it was a substantial amount of money they sued for so what But on all those recordings, the first thing you're going to see in every single one of those inserts is all songs by Glenn Nanzig.

Yes. Now, that's, but as you know, that's writing and publishing. Performance. That's not performance. Correct. So every, for everybody to know that the royalties come in two different places, if you can. And obviously, you guys know this. They'll come from the record label and that goes to all the performers on that record under contract, you know, at that time.

But then publishing and songwriting is a completely different paycheck comes from a completely different publisher from different routes. That's why you have, I'm in Athens, right, in Georgia, so this is a home of R.E.M. And R.M. made one of the greatest decisions ever when they started a band because they knew all of the bickering of big money and everything because Jagger and Richards in the Rolling Stones made literally a thousand times more money than the rest of the band members. And that's going to create some sort of weird friction when it comes to the road, it comes to life, right? Sure, of course. Yeah. So REM made the call to say, no matter who writes it, all of us wrote it. And they split everything equally.

And to be fair, that ban lasted forever as a four piece and the same four members. So it helped. Interesting. So, yeah, in these cases, all the money going to one address, certainly, you know, I'm not going to say, way or the other, but certainly caused some potential issues. Okay. So the guys were suing Glenn over that. And so what was happening was Caroline had to be brought into the suit because they need

to be forced to in order to turn over all sales figures in order to prove the claims by. And by, was this 95, 96? Yeah. So it's like 94, 95 when this was coming up. Yeah. So what had Caroline released for the misfits by this? time. Oh, gosh.

I mean, you know, Collection 1, Legacy Brutality, Evil Live, Earth's AD. So the collection has to be the majority of sales by this time? A collection, yeah, it's now Collection 1, as it's called. Sure. Yeah, at that time, obviously it was a huge thing. But then Legacy obviously came out a little later and did obviously incredibly well as you were talking. And that's something we'll get to because 12 hits a day.

addresses streamlining a specific era of the band into one listen versus what you were talking about, which legacy and collection and even collection two and, you know, did what by cherry picking from different eras. So they're just like personal best ofs in Danzig's mind, I imagine. I don't know. Yeah, it's hard to even call them best of if, you know, if Ratthink or, you know, Spook City makes it over hybrid moments, right? You know, I mean, I think we can all agree on that.

But what's interesting is Spook City is a Glenn dancing song. Correct. It was the B side to Who Killed Maryland, which is not a misfit song. Right. But then in the- That surely has something. But then in the box set, I have the band version of it. You know, so it all gets so difficult to navigate.

And when I took over all this stuff, so, okay, so Lyle's coming to me because the lawsuit's coming through. And basically, in their mind, what they did was Caroline said, you know what? Glenn, you're going to lose this case. So instead of you having to pay out, and I won't give the number, but the number was ginormous, okay? But especially in punk terms, I think when people are baffled by that number. So he was basically saying, hey, we could step in, And we could pay that to Jerry and all them. And we'd even give you some money, but we're now going to own all of those records for the rest of time. So that was a choice, you know?

And that was hard nose business to be fair. Was that the choice? Yes, that's what went down. Okay. Which one has to figure that ties into eventual reunions in live performance. and stuff. Well, yeah. That well, that well starts to dry up.

How else are we going to make money? So, Tom, from what I've heard. Riot Fest comes knocking. From what I've heard, the initial suit ended with Jerry, Doyle, and co. Getting the band and merch and the name. Band, band name and ability to sell their own merch. Glenn gets the music. Glenn gets a publishing.

See, again, there's a split there. right you're talking you just brought a publishing game but i'm still talking about performance royalties and master recordings right but for future for for for 94 95 and beyond was that was that the deal or was it just they get to do that and i i'm here yeah they get they get they got to they got to do what all you said except that now the records are not own not longer on plan nine they're on caroline forever okay okay so now caroline's paid all this money they own they only own those records. Right.

Who starts the conversation to make Static Age finally? Yeah. So that was what Laya was coming over to my desk a lot for, right? He was wondering, what could we do in a situation? And I eventually turned to him and I just said, dude, why don't you just hire me and I'll do this? And you know what? He did. So that worked out well.

So we did. And I mean, it was a lot of pressure because the simple fact of how much money was put up front. and, you know, investment in this. So, okay, so what can you do with masters that have existed forever, right? And already out, as far as you know. So now you've got to dig in and find out, okay. So there was a day where eventually, in the conversations I had, I'd say I first met with Jerry and Doyle came into the offices.

And what was great is they came in all dressed up. I mean, for a meeting with Lyle and I. I mean, we were just like, you didn't have to do that. That was awesome. That's awesome. Yeah. They were like, what do you mean? Right.

Yeah. This is how we are. I woke up this way. So, I mean, it was fun. And they were great and they're so enthusiastic. Okay. And remember, this is a very different time. This isn't now where these reunion shows been making everybody has a general numbers in their head are what they've heard.

And I don't know what those are for real, of course. But I do. Oh, okay. There you go. It's a lot. It's a lot. Well, I mean, You would think so that they're still going.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Everybody's got to be happy. Oh, yeah. But this was a time when there wasn't that. I mean, this is, you got to remember, this is Jerry and, like, post-Christre the conquer era. Right. This is Frank. Frank only recorded the static age sessions in, you know, in 77, 78.

So, I mean, come on. This is a long time, and they're vested because these are songs they performed on and are part of, and they're worth a lot of money, literally. Wow. So, and Robo, you know, obviously only played at the end with them. So, you know, some of these guys did well by stepping up an offering to chip into the lawyer fund, you know, and they paid off. So they, everything settles. So now Caroline has the masters.

Now, do they? Okay, I didn't have them yet. So it was waiting on trying to, so we met Jerry and Doyle. They had their ideas. I didn't see them that way. the same way, but we did talk a lot about static age right away because of Jerry's cassette. Literally, it's a cassette. And it was a cassette of the decent mixes off the board from CI recordings. This is not some like master, half-inch masters and, you know, and things like that.

So we knew that was on the plate. Well, obviously we wanted to do a box set. obviously there were some other concepts involved I had a 7-inch box set in play and even the box designed I was going to have a hidden a fake bottom like the fake bottom to a drawer that you'd have things underneath and a hidden 7-inch was going to be under there

and this was pre-c this was like when the internet was only raw so it was only message boards you know so every kid would have been like I found one what and everybody be flipping the fuck out you know so So that was fun to conceive those things and Jerry was very enthusiastic and would say yes to everything at that point.

You know, because he was like, yeah, let's go. You know? I mean, they've got it back. Right. They're excited about the future of the band now. Yep, yep. And rightfully so. Yeah.

So then I had to switch to, of course, hoping. And look, here's it in the beginning. I had no conception that I would be as involved as I would have been. Because, let's face it, to that point, plan nine and all those records, Glenn did this records. He can do these records. Okay. So here it is. This is, okay, so I'm just trying to facilitate, put ideas out, let's coordinate this.

And I would basically project manager, you know, and see it through. And then, you know, that's not really Jerry's thing. So, you know, kind of leaned on me. And then I'm talking to Glenn on the phone. And we start talking. And I start asking about these songs. I start saying, these fucking. song titles like, you know, all the lore songs that read in zines, you know, interviews,

you know, 15 years earlier. And he's like, what are you asking about these songs for? I'm like, well, A, we own them if they exist. Then B, they should come out because that's what we're doing here. And C is because I know you've mentioned that they, that they were written and recorded, you know, in some shape or form. That could have been a room mic in a rehearsal space. I don't care. But Caroline owns them, regardless. Yeah, exactly. Right, right. So it was, but you know, we see, this is already friction.

I mean, look, I'm label guy. You guys know label guys. I'm not going to say that you feel that way by people. Oh, totally suit and tie, you know. White collars. See, we didn't have to tap into that very long. Thank you. But yeah, so I'm that guy.

And essentially, he lost these masters. right so i'm not high on his list you know sure sure so yeah yeah of course so it was it was a little frustrating for him to have me kind of picking and trying to get to the bottom of these things he's like i don't know if we was on a cassette somewhere i don't know where it is maybe it's somewhere and you know whatever so eventually um his lawyer called and said glen sent all the master tapes from Lodi, you know, his parents' house, to his office, the lawyer's office. He's going to go to come over and get him. I mean, holy fuck, dudes.

I mean, this is like Christmas. Right? Yeah. Yeah, Christmas time. So, but of course, I'm both excited and skeptical. Is he send me everything? Is it really everything? What isn't going to be there?

What is going to be there? So I had to go over. I went over by myself, a taxi, held a taxi down at the bottom of this, you know, high-rise, you know, the lawyer's office thing, went upstairs, got it all, dolly trucks, bring them down, put them in the back of a taxi cab trunk, sweating my ass off. But then went back to the office and unloaded and started cataloging them. And then, of course, and that was, of course, pretty exciting. And that was opening the tapes and, you know, that haven't been opened in how many years.

And then seeing if there were sketches, you know, or handwritten notes on them or in them and all the tracking sheets and all that, like, just nerd, amazing stuff. Where are these now, Tom? Okay, my answer to that, Colin, is that they are in the large warehouse space. It's at the end of Indiana Jones. Oh, okay, sure, sure, sure. That's the congressional archive. Right next to the arc.

Tom, were you, it sounds like it, but I'm going to ask anyway, you were a misfits fan going into this, clearly. Yeah, and I guess that's why Laya was coming over, whether I was maybe talking about it, especially I've moved to New York City not long before that, before the sales rep job. That was my third job there. And therefore, and when you're in New York, you find a lot more boots, you know, and things like that. So collecting more things like that and trying to find a rare stuff. So I think just in those kind of general conversations in the office space, he heard that and then started coming to me for that. I would say my brother, though, I got to give credit to my brother.

He's four years older. He had a college radio show. He didn't party or drink or anything like that in college. So all he did, he took every Friday night shift that the college radio station had and it would start off with like style counsel and the jam and end up with GBAH and Motorhead by the end of the night. And he really, you know, got me into. He saved lives. Yeah, he did. I mean, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, so he really kind of helped bridge that gap from me as a classic rock and, of course, classic metal kid grown up into, you know, kind of exposed to these different, you know, genres and styles. Beautiful. So while you're archiving all these things. Okay. Yeah. So the thing that I need to do is not only write down what I got, you know, type it out, quarter inch reel, half inch reel, multi-tracks, you know, whatever. and then some of them were unknown.

So I had to, so over, you mentioned Alan Douches earlier, and Alan was the mastering guy there. I never worked with him prior because I never mastered records. This is my first real gig. And I worked with Alan and the rest of my industry career. I love him. Legendary mastering mastering engineer, Cannibal Corpse, D.A. Marauder.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I took him with me to Revelation and I took him with me to Century Media then after that. So, yeah, he's great to work with. So I sent all these tapes in, what was that little town? TNAC, New Jersey, maybe.

Anyway, small town in New Jersey, and then he was, his task was to transfer them. Except, of course, remember how old some of these are. So at the time, it was still new and still somewhat experimental. But at the time, Tom Petty's box set, there were old tapes, and they baked to them. Have you guys know of this process? Is this new? No. Okay, okay.

Do you tell. Okay. So information, of course, on an actual tape is magnetically adhered to it, but it can fall off and disappear. Okay. So it's not inherently part of the tape. It's on the tape. So Tom Petty's box set through these really ultra rare early recordings. They put it in literally in an oven.

And I'm not talking a special oven. I'm talking your home oven. Okay. Susie Homemakers. Yeah. Put it in that avocado, turd brown, whatever color. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Oh, yeah. And put it in that thing at a certain temperature and how they figured this out. You know, how does anybody figure anything out? You know, experimented and fail. But at a temperature for how long and just enough to loosen the information on the tape, and then they brought the tape on and put it on the reels and did a quick transfer digitally. And that's what was happening. happening at the time. So with, yeah, I know, it was nerve-wracking a lot of these moves,

but you just kind of had to, you know, it's the only way you're getting it. And that included- Let him cook. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that would even happen on the static age, which of course is later as well. But for the bonus tracks on this, on the standalone release outside of the box that, those tapes were baked to get that information off in order to mix the bonus tracks. which that's like in the doorway and what? Yeah, in the doorway. I think she. I forget the four that were not originally mixed.

Okay. Yeah. And boy, I was hoping for it that to be. What's the original version of Spinal Remains? That's another title. And I was hoping the lyrics are going to be on the scratch vocal tracks. That's another question I have, Tom. We're not at the coffin box yet, but I noticed some of the lyrics.

even in even on on the misfits own release are just not what he's singing is that just because that's what's written down somewhere oh oh you're talking about like printed lyrics yeah oh look yeah that is a totally other thing but i would tell you that by that point of the process which we haven't you know walked through yet but that that part of the process um it wasn't fun yeah It was just, you just, okay, so to backtrack that, obviously I already mentioned I'm the records label guy. I also represent, in essence, a voice of a company that now owns the masters of these records that were his, so on.

You know, this, it was difficult. I had on one hand, I had Jerry and them who were just like, yeah, you know, anything you want. Yeah. Yeah. Big sweaty hugs and lots of, yeah. And it smiles. Now, speaking of that, how collaborative between Glenn and the Jerry Camp are things like Static Age in the Coffin Box?

Okay. Ultimately, under the deal, I only needed to get one of those two parties' approval. Ah. I mean, how would I get both? Come on. You know, it's impossible. And the label knew it. The band knew it.

Everybody knew it. So that was a thing where I did not need to get both. And honestly, okay, so what I was also kind of starting to get it to earlier was the fact that I didn't think I was going to do all this work on these records. Right. But with Jerry was, yeah, and I'm like, okay, but I'm going to do it to be fair. Look, just being straight up, I felt like I could probably, my vision I felt believed in versus, you know, it's okay. Now, Glenn's, obviously, you know, you want to take very seriously. And I did.

And I wanted to get him involved. And we tried to get him involved. But there was so much bitterness and resentment there. Yeah, sure. I couldn't break that wall down for my life. I flew out and to L.A., met with him and his manager. And I gave him all my ideas for the coffin box, including all the, like, crazy stuff that Roger and I had come up with,

which was like, if we did a special edition, should we, make it wooden and make it make the creaking noise when you open it up you know things like that right right you know and and so roger roger gorman was the designer i brought on to see forth the vision because of course i could just throw out ideas but what's that mean i can't make them real i don't understand how to do that so um he he had been doing the wutan clan records in the 90s and then And he had been doing, he did a sound division box set, which went a Grammy for David Bowie. He did his brother painted and he designed the layout and justice for all. Wow.

They did, he did the black album. He did the garage EP. Before that, he did Queenswright's Operation Mind Crime. I mean, the guy was all over the place. And so he taught me a lot of really interesting things. So one of them was from this was Tom, throw everything. into your ideas. And if they don't like it and I think that's too much, even if they cut it back 50%, I bet you'll be farther than you would have if you didn't bother trying to push.

That's smart. Yeah, it was a great lesson. So I went with all these ideas and that includes Dave McKean being hired for, you know, to illustrate the booklet cover in the box, in the coffin. Every track, Erie writing the liners, the whole thing, everything outlined. And he gave me one of the best lines I've ever heard. It's just that I was the brunt of it. Okay. So he said, look, we went through everything. He said, I'm not here to be your friend or be your enemy. I'm just here to tell you what I think's cool and what I think sucks. And I haven't seen anything cool yet. He said that to me across the table. And it was amazing and yet totally freshing. But man, I was in all of the phrasing, to be fair. Because this is you, you're giving him everything.

You're like, this is, this is what could be. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, it all sucks. Yeah. Yeah. Basically. Right.

And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, everything I gave him is what I did. Okay. Okay. So, okay. So, okay. So, let's, let's, let's, if you want to compare, if we're going to dick to wait for a second, you want to compare my box versus the same Hane box that came out in like 99.

I mean, there's no comparison. That thing was a plastic, you know, uh, uh, tray thing with a little slip. discs and it just, you know, some kind of porn comic book or whatever it was. So look, you know, you know. So back to the treasure trove of tapes and reels that you got, is there anything in there that is still unreleased to this day aside from what ended up on 12 hits? No, between the box static age and 12 hits. Yeah, that's it.

Yeah, that's it. And I mean that. There's, um, I, look, I was hoping for like their version of Archangel. I was hoping for, um, a different version of even, you know, die, die, um, uh, anything. And that stuff wasn't there, it wasn't there. And then those songs I was getting on him about in the beginning, those really old ones, it was like 377 ones when it was a three piece and he was on keyboards. When they were playing like maxes and all that, no. Yeah.

they would at best been on a cassette, you know, room thing. And God knows, you know, where those would be. And that's okay. So, yeah, so, no, that's all good. So it was basically going through those things. And what can we do with them? And what are repeats? What are just remasters?

Or what's it just the taking, you know, four songs from that, you know, quarter inch reel? And then you have another duplicate over here. And that was painstaking. And I definitely heard a lot about it from the coffin box buyers at the time. It's like, hey, you want everything or not? Yeah. Yeah. So we did what we could with what we had.

And when it came down to art and all that, I certainly was not getting the cooperation that I was hoping for. So I just basically had to do it myself, you know? So that became... Where is the static cage and the coffin box? well static age was always we literally left that on the plate glen was not a supportive of that idea static age yeah he felt it came out as legacy um and you know again which this is the the with the bonus tracks is 17 tracks yeah is that is that one session um no not one session they were owed this. They only got that studio time because of blank, right? Blank Records name, which they had

used prior to on the Gulf Cool 7-inch. And then Blank Records was a band named Peru. It was more of a part of what would have been called the college, you know, music, alternative music wave early on in a post-punk way. And those guys already had something with a major, and I forget which one, but as called blank. And so basically to change that name, They were given 30 hours of studio time at CI, which is a major studio. And zero hours of bass intonation. I don't even fucking think of one. But that was all fixed later.

Well, we did what we could. Again, it's working with Jerry's cassette was the 14 tracks, 13 trucks. It's been a bit. Don't, you know, don't hold me to it. Um, okay. Um, so that went that that as in the box set, the, that, that, that extra CD that came in the extra pack. And I don't know which version of the box that you guys do or don't have. But there's the original one was all the black plastic, um, with silver, silver stamp stuff. And there was a fourth disc that had the back that had to be like pushed on and slid up in order to open it up for static age. And that. See if you have that. Because I don't think mine is that one. There it is.

I have the other one. Yeah. I call the other one the accountant version. I have the accountant version. Yeah. And it happened after I left. Carolyn Bowie could do. Okay.

She did, Greg. Wendy did. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So that version is that case that you're dealing with right now. Those, that is Jerry's tape straight up. This is it.

Wow. Yeah. So there was. no special master for those kind of things. It was straight up. Well, does say mastered by Alan. Exactly. Right. We mastered it. I'm just talking about like from a half inch or a quarter inch or something.

It was just off Jerry's literal cassette. So but these first 14 songs, this was the blank records exchange session? Yes. Including the bonus songs when it came out on its own. All 17 were done in those in his sessions. Yeah. Wow. So, hell, the amount of fucking hits in this section, in this session is crazy.

It is crazy. You do have to think about it this way, and you guys know this. And when you start a band or you started a first band, you have time. And then say that band gets signed. You had a year, two, three years as a band before anybody heard of you or you ever got signed, and you had all that time to write songs. And then you have to write it up. one and how many months after touring for a year?

But that was semi, the crazy thing to me is like that follow up is 12 hits technically. Yeah, yeah, that's pretty dark. And that's, that's the, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's true. It's true. Right. Right. Yeah. And people don't know that to this day.

Right. Right. Right. It's crazy, dude. Yeah. We'll get into that, obviously. Yeah, for sure. So what, what came first, the standalone static age release or the coffin?

box. The coffin box. Yep. And then when... So you had to fucking get this coffin. Yeah. Yeah, right. To hear these songs. Yeah. It was the first time, of course, the third disc in there is the first time any of those alternate versions and rare versions and stuff were ever put out officially. Yeah, they were all bootleg before that. So that's all that stuff that was in the Masters was those, that that disc three of things that hadn't been touched before. So that was, of course, exciting, you know, so people didn't have to have a boot. These were mastered. They were all compiled into, you know, a collection. And as far as, as far as fans are concerned, it's an official,

like, it's official. We did. You know, because like, you know, yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, they think the band did it. They don't know the ins and outs of what had just happened necessarily. And that's why I, I, how would we know that until Tom is telling us that right now? It's, it's all rumor. So this, the coffin box was a geria. and Doyle signing off on operation? I could say that there was also in the contract that if somebody didn't reply in 10 days, a non-approval. A non-approval is an approval.

You know what I'm saying? Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah, sure. Hey. So who approved it or who didn't? I don't know. Okay.

Did you put the, uh, did you put the booklet layout together as well? For the, the box set? Yes. Um, yeah. I mean, as far as, uh, you know, images jerry supplied to me or the, or the textures and backgrounds. and all that. That seems like an approval as well. Sure.

There's a, there's a picture in there, Colin, if you could flip to where Doyle is. My booklet is still at Taylor's house. Son of a bitch, but there's a picture where Doyle is, he's holding up his guitar and it looks like something out of Mad Max or something.

I used to sit, I remember Christmas morning opening this up and flipping through this booklet. Just page, page by page. It's just obsessing over it. That's amazing. So thank you, Tom. That was a Christmas gift.

That's so cool. Yeah, my mom got me in for Christmas, I think, seventh grade. That's awesome. So the common box is out there. Yeah. People are finally hearing officially released versions of these songs. Static Age getting a standalone release. Is that immediately the next plan or is that kind of a slow roll?

That's in the works. That was in the works the whole time. It was just trying to. do my best to see if I could get everybody lined up. Okay. That always, like I said, didn't happen. So, but here's the thing. Ultimately, at the end of the day,

no matter how things were going good or bad, and it was not easy. It was not always fun. It was difficult. These guys had a very contentious relationship. Everybody understands that. And it was a different time. And to be fair, all of this,

the matter what I've already said or I may say, is that I was, this was my first real gig. Okay. So could I, and now, you know, 30 years later, could I have done something differently? Of course. And does part of me wish I did? Maybe.

I'm not sure what it would have been, but could it have brought people together? I don't know if I, this like 25, turning 26 year old dude, could have overcome all right there's a lifetime they got brought together so right right it all worked out yeah yeah yes it did it did it was just it was just trying to do there's a constant pool because of fact that um caroline did believe in this and invested heavily into this and even the coffin box that the BP of the company CFO these people were like not loving the fact that some of these printing dyes, the dyes that you held up in order to push that static

cage type out from the plastic to do. That was a toy company that made those for us. You know, and you're talking about the metal dyes that were made to do that are tens of thousands of dollars. Right. And you're investing this in just the process that will make something when you could have just did, Bo, you know, to double this. The accountant version. And so was this a success? Yes, it was. Before I even before, before, There were 50,000 printed of the version that you have in your hand there, Colin. And that was gone, that was not gone before I left in 97, but it had already recouped and had done quite well for itself, which is great.

I think because it was one of those cheesy line moments from the movie about you build it, they will come. I mean, we didn't cheap out on it. Obviously, we didn't do the wooden, you know, with the creaking sound, you know, limited. There's still time. Who could have been? There's still time. Right.

So I think we did it for what we could, and it did go gold. And that's cheat. That's a slight cheat because of fact that it has four discs, so it only has to sell 125,000. Oh, is that how that works? As how that works, dude. So release a double album, and you got twice the chance to get a gold record. So like George Harrison's record's a triple LP.

Yeah, but that's probably still at least that like, you know, 12. Mill, but but still, but it makes you think, wow, I had no idea. Yeah, so it did well.

The static age recordings and stuff, that, like people knew about it, right? Because it had been rumored and, I remember, Colin, who did we,

who did we, we spoke to someone on the show who there was like, oh yeah, when static age came out, I like ran to the record store to get it because it was, I don't know, but I would have to imagine

just as a fan, these things finally hitting the streets in real time was pandemonium. It was fun. It was fun to see it, to be fair, you know. Yeah. This fan base is so beautifully aggravating, obsessively, you know, helpful. I'm trying to put two words together that almost mean the opposite thing.

Sure. It's a very difficult, once you have that kind of fan base, it's very difficult to do anything without being ridiculed for it by a good chunk of the people because it's seldom such reverence it's it everybody feels they would do a better job or a different thing and it should have been this and should have been that and that's fine at the time I was probably because I was just you know 20s angry as fuck and you know but now I can appreciate that but it's not what I wanted to hear at the time for all I was doing so um so when it came to static age itself um there jerry's cassette as it was and that's how we really believe

And it's why it's in a box set that way, because that first meeting with Jerry and Doyle, and they're so excited and they bring this and we're listening to it and hearing actual base, you know, and thickness of that recording versus the legacy stuff. And, you know, those versions, which were tinny and thinner, you know, there's no doubt. And they're different. So hearing this was so exciting. So actually, we had a teenagers from Mars one-sided seven-inch slated for release. It was going to be etched on the second side with the Crimson Ghost.

and of course colors and it was going to be you may have seen the shots over the years of Jerry wearing a teenager's Marr's jacket and he's turning around he's got the blue hair and you know that's that era red jacket yeah right those photos so we were

considering you know doing that to debut it because we felt that that song really brought forth the the true recording sounds and vibes that were at the time so are you telling me if I pop this CD in and put it on. Is it a different

master than I would hear on something like Spotify? Oh, I don't know. If Spotify has the complete 17 song version, you know, with the actual artwork that the individual release, then it probably is, sure, because when we put together the actual solo and added the bonus tracks that we mixed out of Allen's, then yeah, everything obviously was treated. We mixed to match the style of the 14th songs. God knows part of me wanted to remix that record, but we did not have the multi-tracks of everything in time and the cost of it was something that Caroline was not into. So we just remixed the bonus

tracks and we mixed them to match the best we could. Of course, it's a different era. It's a different time. It's not exactly the same. But honestly, when you don't know what I'm telling you? Nobody knows. You can't tell. You just go with the flow, you know? So it's like even live, if somebody, if one of you guys would miss a small thing or two, the people that are out there who know that song already are almost filling that in on their own. Yeah, they don't want to hear it filled in. They know it's inauthentic that way. Yeah, exactly. So it's all good. So, anyway, so when we did that, that's what came out there. And then at that time, it was just reviewing and liner notes and giving it its own special spotlight.

So, and that leads to somewhat where I end up, of course, with 12 hits is because if you look at it. When static age finally comes out on its own. Yeah. Is that something Glenn approves of or is that, how do the, how do the conversations go with him about that? It was never particularly sold on it. Okay. But we made a little bit of concession with him and the extent that we released Collection 2, which he put together before, even the coffin box. Because if you go to the releases in order, as far as my time period went, the Collection 2 came out in, I want to say late 95, October, November.

and then coffin box was late February 96th, and then you had a static age in 2000, maybe. There's the Collection 2 track list. Yeah, so the chorus that was included in there because of the fact that we were putting, you know, the releases in there. He just needed Ratfink on there, huh? This was, and I'll tell you that the Collection 2 masters were not new.

This is something he had in mind for some time. Gotcha. And he wanted to do it that way. And I wasn't thrilled about it, but this is what we do. You know, we, you know, and I wanted, God damn, and I wanted him in some ways to be so excited to be, to take charge to run with this, to get out the rarest, coolest stuff and run with it. It just never happened. But again, I can't. It didn't make my life any easier.

and it made me upset sometimes, but I can't also blame him because I feel like it was just a situation that how was it ever going to be great? No, of course. Right. It was set up. It was kind of,

you really had no option. Yeah. It's really funny, it's funny too to think of the, think of ratfank and think of some of the songs that are like consisted on or put in there.

And then you watch videos or even listen to Evil Live and it's like none of those songs. Hits, all hits. Right, right, right. It's only hits. It's such an interesting. It's like almost two different,

bands live versus recorded even in the mentality. Sure, sure. And of course, they changed the guitars, you know, so much, you know, and a lot that, even the style of how that was played and speed it was played, which of course changed. I think we're about to get into that. Sure. Right. Big time.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah. No doubt. Okay. Well, I, you know, I mean, we could, this might be it. It might be time to talk about 12 hits.

So Coffin Box goes gold. Yeah. We now know. Right. Static age does probably goes gold, right? I don't know. It doesn't. At this point. But it was great. Oh, I don't know now. Yeah, who knows now? Obviously, it's been so long. Sure. The songs are household names. The songs are gold. That's for sure. Exactly. Right. Now you, you've, you've held off on the 12 hits sessions because you've said that this is it. This, this, this, this, this, of songs, this session, this is all, this is all that's left. Whereas that's something where when you're going through the archive, you're putting these aside to be like, don't worry, we're going to do this separately?

Totally missed the ball on this potential record those first few years. I did. Maybe that's because of the, in mass of stuff coming at me. But what, here's the only thing that triggered me that this would even be a thing, is that on the MSP, which is the studio, Master Sound Productions, boxes, masters, the multi-track masters, on those written inside on the back of a sheet or the box, I don't remember which, is Glenn's handwriting with side one and side two with an actual track listing. And that's the first time I really even saw it or took notice of it to say,

oh, fuck, he wanted this to be an album. And why wouldn't it be an album? This should be an album. And I want to make it an album. That's it. That's where it came from. And so it's his handwriting. If you have any copies of it, and I have one of my two CDs on it,

the track listing written on the back is written in Glenn's handwriting, because that's scanned, that's how he wrote it on that Master Tate. How many of those copies are out there, Tom? I would say that I think there were 2,000 promos. out? Yeah, and those are a mix. Some of them with art. And this, of course,

one with the art. And then this isn't even promatized, so that's good for me. And then there were those, you can probably find some of these two, see them on eBay or whatever. People are selling these. They're the blank ones. They're just

the black ink on the CD. They were for press. And so they was going to press. And those commonly came with a press release. I don't even have one of those. Like, I never saw that. So those went out, and then things went south. Gotcha. Yeah. So in 78, they do this big static age session.

30 hours, 17 tracks. They do not much with it. It doesn't come out as an album. Right. It doesn't. 1980, two years later, Master Sound Productions, they go, okay, this is it. This is the full. length. Right. And they record these 12 hits. Yeah. And then once again, decide that they're not good

enough. Well, I don't know if, I don't know if we can pin it on that. I might. Here's, then that's, that's an angle. And it could be the way it is. My thought has always been the simple fact that, of course, they're releasing it themselves. What a painy ass it is to come up with the money in manufacturing the distribution to sell an entire record. It is so much easier to print a few seven inches with your favorites, give them away to friends, take them to shows, carry them to shows so much easier than even 12 inches. Sure.

And less costly. So I kind of think it's like, well, what do we do with these? And it's funny because not that we're going back to Staticage, but in this kind of rollout of what could be albums, I mean, in talks with Ian McKay over the years, he's like he literally wonders about if two or three records would have came out for real. And that's like death from Detroit is one of his favorite underdogs that never got any attention. And of course, if black dots, you know, which I organized at Caroline, too, if those, you know, original Dons and Terror sessions came out when they were recorded.

And he thinks about what static age would it did if it came out in 1978 to the punk scene. And there's no question. So I don't know if it would, I think they knew and they loved this stuff. But was it a matter of budget and funding and whether we could do this? It was a lack of interest in a label? I have no idea. I don't know how they shopped themselves or didn't shop, you know? Because instead of continuing to shop, static age, like, hey, we've got all these incredible songs.

Trust us, they're amazing. They just do it again without another plan. Yeah, it is interesting. It is not by the book. Yeah, there you go. It's not by the book. There's no doubt. It is,

it, I don't know what it was like for them at that point to say why it was, but it certainly can be confusing. And it was only made more confusing by collection and legacy coming out with these rare, odd years on the, on next to songs, you know,

like, why, what is this? And, but yeah, at the same time, you cannot dismiss the amazing mystique that Glenn created by doing those things.

100%. I mean, it's almost like he knew. Like, I like to believe that he knew. He was like, no, we're going to save it because he.

in 25 years, people are going to lose their minds over it. Well, yeah. I mean, I choose to believe that. Yeah, I would tell. While touring their asses off. Yeah. Yeah. And playing these songs and people know them somehow, right?

Yeah, right. And that's hard. That's hard for people to come in today that it was by scene. And you just because you existed in New Jersey didn't mean anybody in L.A. knew who the hell you were. Right. And how could you pull that off? Well, playing there, sure.

Maybe, you know, putting on a show with Black Flag in Jersey or New York and then trading that with them out there, but that could take a year and a half until you get out there for money. And the shows are not popularly attended. That is a misnomer. If anybody feels like they were huge at the time, anybody was playing out. There are exceptions like Flagg, of course, playing, you know, Civic, Santa Monica Civic and Paladium too. There's a, there's a story of Black Flag and the Misfits playing, I think the Babu Hai Gardens. And one played upstairs, one played downstairs, and it was two separate shows at the same time. Oh, wow.

I mean, that's crazy. Why would you even do that? I don't know. And the pictures of like Rollins' meeting that for the first time is like that was that show. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's cool. So it's like even then it's like such a special little thing that you just had to kind of be around to.

Yeah. This isn't, this isn't easy because somebody that you, one person you know is sharing it with a thousand people or 40,000 people or 100,000 people on some Instagram post. It was very difficult to. get this word around. So I don't know what those reasons are that they didn't pursue these things in the same way or didn't release them entirely as they are. But I don't think, you can't change one ounce of their story and think it's going to end up the same. So it had to be this way. And it was that way the mystique, the frustration, the like wanting more, the bootlegs, everything that happened

with it. Culture, created an entire culture. It wouldn't have been the same if you could just buy this at borders. right time i do think 12 hits 100% to this day is the best collection of misfit songs it's a great which is Halloween vampire i turned into a martian skulls london night of living dead or hotel ghouls night out astro zombies i mean come where eagles dare violent world Halloween too yeah yeah i know that's the best album ever. It's,

and I know, and the way you were speaking about static age earlier felt like you could say the same thing about that one. 100%. Right, right.

But it's like in terms of a follow-up and like establishing what you are. Right. Yeah. I've never seen two pieces of music back to back that are just like, we're this and we're fucking this.

Fuck you. Right. And we broke up 25 years ago. And we're done. Right, right, right. Yeah. But the thing is, sorry.

But you could, but, But you never saw. Nobody ever saw the music that way because that's not how it happened. So 12 hits basically comprises, of course, three hits from hell, Nile the Living Dead single, and a Halloween single, and puts them all in one. But they were released independently of each other over time. And so it never felt cohesive, or it never felt like this is the next monster.

This isn't Pink Floyd following up, Dark Side of the Moon, which you are here. I mean, come on, right? Yeah, I know. in essence, in the punk realm, yeah, yeah, for sure. But it's like, was that not their intention? I honestly think they were just kids kicking ass and writing this stuff and doing the best they could when there's not a lot of money involved and not a big scene. Here's the other factor in question here.

The lineup started during the session as Glenn, Bobby, Jerry. Arthur. Yeah. By the end of the session, Bobby's out, Doyle's in. Correct. So half on the album, on these recordings, do we have Bobby's guitar and Doyle's guitar, or is it song dependent?

No, it is always together. Always both. I would say, you know what? I wonder if there's maybe on Halloween 2, I don't think Doyle tracked. I'm not going to like make us think about that or like slant that down. But I don't. There was one song maybe that had done.

And yeah, it changed. So in order to have these things. And you can even see this on the three hits from Hell Seventh. The three hits from Hell Seventhage on the back credits additional guitar on London on, I forget which of the tracks by Bobby Steele. And then the big London Dungeon riff is played by Robbie Alter, who was the producer or like somebody a producer in the session. What?

And that states that on the artwork. I mean, it's there for anybody as a copy of it. So that stuff wasn't hidden. It's just because it was so, nobody knows what's going on except for them. They're playing pickup games. They're playing like,

who's around? Who can you play this? I mean, Doyle has the look. Doyle is that guy. Of course. And he was also 16 when he joined. Exactly.

Oh, yeah. The kid. Yeah. Yeah, him and Erie were in the same class, and they were both out. Yeah. Now, was that something where you, do you know if it was like Jerry being like, don't worry, you're going to be in? Just keep practicing, keep lifting weights. Right?

Yeah. Okay. So by the end of the session, Doyles and the band Bobby's out. Yes. To answer, Colin, to answer that question, on Miss Fitzs Central on the timeline. Oh, yeah. They're like Bobby's, Bobby saw. Doyle's guitar

like the prototype before and he was just like what's that? And they were like I don't worry about that. It was like they so it was always it was definitely there. That was the plan.

Okay. Yeah. It's just what boggues my mind the most is that and listen, don't get mad at me. You want to get mad at me. It's fine.

Walk among us is the weakest of the three. I agree. 100% agree. 100%. And that's the one that was worthy of being the only official debut album? I know. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, there's, and look, and again, all this stuff was a long time ago. So recently I had gone through some communications about this from the time and then also my own thoughts on it. And one of those things was my goal with 12 hits was to create a scenario where you have static age.

12 hits and you have Earth's AD. And in my mind, you have it all. I mean, yeah, you have the coffin box. Fine. But as far as the albums, those albums really do cover the 90 percentile of that band's existence. Those are the definitive song. Yeah. Right. Those are the three sessions that nailed down the best material in the best way. There's no doubt. And kind of they like chapter each like the era of the band. That's correct. Yeah. So I was, my counterpoint to all the mystique, because it still existed, it was always going to be there, but is creating order from chaos. So my goal was to have static age and now it was on its own. Now I have 12 hits.

And of course, there's a D was out. And then you could feel like you could walk into a record store by those three records and feel like if I don't have any more, I did it. I got it. Yeah. Okay. And God, what a world that would have been. And I wanted to, and for the record, I wanted to mix all three of the. those records. I already mentioned that about Static Age and obviously it was mixing 12 hits.

I wanted to remix Earth AD so badly to make it the most powerful fucking thrash punk record without question of Sonics because there's always some sort of question of sonics in this conversation. Is that something? I know Alan still works with them. Yes. To this day. He he worked with, he did the Graves records as well. So you would think maybe there's some door open for him to still do earthen day well well i would say that you'd have to figure out where those masters are i don't i don't i don't recall have god damn masters well the thing is i know and the issue with that is too because that was out west that was a spot um the s spot who was really produced most of sST stuff in socal so um where those tapes are who knows so those might not be under the porch

where the fucking skisks were and shit. Pardon this interruption. We've got to tell you about some very important things real quick. Bo, you just finished up a two-year-long tour, it felt like.

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Oh, I brought 30 little packets with me for a 30-day tour, and I had one every single day. I did not miss a day. Yeah. Healthy as an ox-horse hybrid. Both things. Unbelievable. And this could be you. You got to go to athletic greens.com slash hardlore, and you're going to get five free travel packs with your order.

Mm-hmm. You're going to love that little bottle. you're going to love the metal scoop. All the good stuff is so fun. What else do they get, though? They also get a year supply of the vitamin K and D drops, which, hey, daylight savings just happened. It's we're going into winter.

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the show bye so for with 12 hits was were you kind of on your own here or are jerry doyle and Glenn helping in some way. I thought I had companionship, but it turned out I was on my own. Okay. Because you've said, coffin box, nobody responded. So it got to happen. Static age, did someone sign off or did nobody respond? I think I relied on non-response for everything.

Dude, Tom, you are a genius. It's crazy. What you're telling me basically is you're a fucking genius. But that ran out. Strike three was 12 hits. Well, it was, yeah. So I, look, I will tell you that I did everything as it was, and as it had happened before. Now, what we need to remember here is we have a four-year gap since I left Caroline. Lyle's long gone. I already had another GM after Lyle named Keith Wood, who ran Caroline prior to Lyle even. and Keith was great.

Keith was very supportive. He's Englishman. He's an old Virgin Records guy, so Virgin from the UK in London. Yeah. Great dude. He was fine. Everything was good. And then, so then we're all basically gone.

And I come up with this idea. So now on a day-to-day in a Carolina, you have people who never dealt with how litigious and how contentious and how difficult it is to navigate the waters. Right. So. The Misfits waters in particular? Yes.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Those orange waters. When I look back at the emails that I have from literally when it was falling apart, it initially started off with a lot of support for me because I had done these things to date. And it had been very successful. Sure.

By the end of it, it seemed that there was a. lack of comprehension on why it was done this way. But what does this way mean? Yeah.

Yeah. Well, in kind of having to do, look, Caroline had every right to release these recordings in the way that they saw fit

because of the fact that they bought them. Okay. So there's a fine line there between that and art. And I respect both as an artist myself. in my own room.

I it was very difficult to ride that, uh, ride that rail. Yeah. So and sometimes like when I pitched all this stuff to Glenn and he didn't like it for the coffin box and, um, I called Lyle and I said literally the line I gave him, he picked up and hey man and I said, do you do, should I quit or do you want to fire me? It's hard. It was difficult to deal with so much more.

It was so much larger than not. I was. And you're 26. Yeah, about that at the time. I'm not, I'm barely time. I'm forgetting socks at 26, you know. It was, and that was a lot. And I also had, I also worked with bad brains at that time.

I also worked with, um, Hole. So I had Courtney, in the year after Kurt killed himself. I mean, this is, these were not, these were not easy waters, you know, either. And it was a lot to figure. out and it was a trial by fire. And look, I've said earlier, look, here's the thing. There can be some sort of

puzzlement or maybe I'm not 100% open about every single facet of this thing. But it's also because yeah, could it have been better? Should it have been better? Yes, to both. And I wish it would have been. But again, I can't change

it. And if I changed it, then none of it would be that way. Right. So I just have to live with it as it is and deal with how it all went down as it is. And so I did, I had to work within the contract. So I worked within the contract legally at every stance, including on 12 hits. And at some point, because I was not there fielding this, I was not, I had the defense of Caroline for years as far as even the lawyers. And they were like, oh, no, no, no, this is all good. You did what you had to do.

I did it. I have the letters which present to the band, my ideas for 12 hits, and I don't have any rejection until much, much, much later. And that's the way it is. And so it was disappointing because I was freaking amped on that thing. So you're essentially working by yourself here. It's not like you've got the active support of the band. I had active support, like I said. I believed I had that.

You were not led to believe otherwise. Okay, but I'll also tell, I'll also say this. I will say that part of the letter when I pitch this entire thing, which I did to somebody directly on the phone, by the way, but then I actually sent it to the lawyers. When I did, part of that pitch says, oh boy, and I don't know if I can find that actual notation, it clearly says that. it clearly says that we will not know exactly what to do and what's on there until we actually hear the tapes. So when I got to the tapes, and I'm hearing this, and so I had Alan take those tapes and run them in multitrack and give me a flat mix, which is, you know, if anybody had something mastered by Alan, there's this green paper, it was every piece of paper. and so this is like a reference, okay? Of, and...

Me, please. Yeah, it's... It's the 13 tracks, because, of course, London Dungeon had a, you know, a non... Alternate take. Alternate take, yeah. That's the only song they played twice.

The only song they performed twice in that session. There's a lot of stuff in that song, a lot of noodling in the back. Yeah, and it's amazing to hear it, because you can hear it in the alternate version because it's not piled on with the effects, the guitar. So you hear that raw riff. And it does change it almost completely in some ways

because you don't have that hugeness, that echoing, like, you recorded it in a warehouse, you know, kind of thing. A dungeon even. Yeah, perhaps, if you will. So he did that for me, and then I basically listened to these rough mixes and then started to kind of navigate what I wanted to do with them. And then that's when I started hearing all of Bobby.

And you know these recordings. Yeah. Do you feel like you'd look at me and think, you know, he probably heard all that and said, nah, let's get Bobby out of the mix and not bother with it. Not at all. So I was sitting there going, these are our tapes. I've already told them. And I even noted that I don't even know necessarily what's going to happen with us until I hear them,

which was the truth, and it is the truth. And now I'm seeing your learning. And I'm like, yeah, but, you know, I can move forward. Because this is real. Again, we own this. Yeah. Right. That was my approach.

Now, look, if somebody wants to debate that legally, go for it. I don't care. It doesn't deal. It matters nothing to me. But when I'm sitting there listening to these things and I'm hearing these, like, I mean, Jesus, vampire alone. I mean, it's like, you're hearing Bobby do surf guitar. is essentially what it is.

It's like, it's beautiful work. And what creates the beauty for this recording is the fact that who would think that would work in this. So it's... There's something spooky about surf guitar, though. I know, I know. It's all the key changes in it's... You've heard the black metal surf guitar comparison, I'm sure.

It's hilarious. It's great. It's almost the same music. It's interesting. But how you present it, right? It's completely different. Right. Now, Bo, have you heard Bobby's re-recording of the entire album with his band The Undead?

I'm sure I have in the past, but admittedly a long time ago. It's pretty crazy, but then you hear the way some of the stuff is played. Yeah. And you're like, oh, that was you. Aha. I see. I need to revisit. The stank on the way some of those things are played.

Yeah. Like, ooh, that was like Bobby. just did that. You were not told to do that. You can hear the thread for sure. He was a very cool addition to that lineup. I need to revisit that. Interesting. Oh, you know, I just wasn't going to walk away from it. No. You know, so I embraced it. And you're talking about, and look, the first contention that was addressed and brought up from the other side of the coin here was that the liners weren't

accurate and that's not true either. All my liners deal with the simple fact that literally pointing out that Bobby's recording multiple tracks per song. Doyle was doing one and I'm not, that's not belittling. I'm just trying to like tell

Hey, I'm here. I have this. Yeah. Yeah. This is what's happening. Right. So I'm not making it up. And look, you know, even though we've had issues, I mean, I always thought, you know, Doyle and Jerry were great. They were fun. They were good people.

And none of this was personal. Even with Glenn, even if we didn't see eye to eye, maybe we butted heads. None of this had anything to do with that. I'm coming out. You're doing this as a fan. Correct. Correct. Yeah, right.

Right. So I'm hearing this. I'm like, well, if I want to hear this, other people want to hear this. And there's no doubt we want to hear this. So, okay. So going through it, I was just mapping down the logistics and that came up. So as far as like, oh, liners. And I was like, okay. Well, obviously, so I wrote back to Carolina and was very clear about, look, when I said this, it's because this is real. Fact, truth. It's on the tapes. Here, if I wrote this, this line addresses this because of that. And I went like line by line because I was feeling, I was feeling the defensive somewhat. being yeah thrown under the bus so the first

the first red flag is that they don't agree with the liner information that's what was yeah I'll say that's what was said yes

okay and is that how do they feel about the rest of the layout is that is the artwork itself something that they see and go

we can't have this out there and I think they publicly said that I've never known And again, that's where I felt thrown under the bus a bit, I guess. Because, of course, I did that. And then, of course, I wrote the liners. And, you know.

But that artwork was like a faithful recreation of something that had already existed, right? Yeah. No, actually. Those four pictures are Erie's. And I combined them into something. So you just made that. And Glenn on the back, the skull and crossbones on the back is actually a detail of Glinch, that's the skull and crossbones shirt he always wore.

Right. And then the photos were supplied by Erie. They were not taken by Erie, but they were from that era. And, you know, yeah, and I just stood by that. And I also stood by the fact that I did do the same things I had done before to get a record moving forward. And that because of, again, the fact that I wasn't there for four years, these people were all dealing with it. internally at Caroline for the first time. And it was a lot for them to comprehend and understand.

And also, you don't quite understand what it's like to be gone after sometimes until you're in it. You know, so all of a sudden, they're now realizing the force that they're dealing with. And, you know, so. So in what way? what is the pushback like from the band regarding 12 hits? Oh my gosh. It was, I mean, I was literally looking at these last few minutes. And it's so many fold at that time.

It kind of burst open the gates of complaints, I guess. I'm noted as producer, but I don't say that. I produced the record. I produced the recordings I didn't produce. I produced this, you know, this output. Yeah. To the use of that, to guitar credits, of course, that was obviously a major issue. Remix capabilities and I outlined that, yes, of course, we do need permission for that,

but that was in the request originally, all these kind of things. Look, and I found along the way, of course, these things happened that managers don't always share all these things. artists don't always understand these things and or pay attention to them because it's just it's boring stuff seems like but ultimately it was happening and the issue is and so when I say when I say in the thanks that I thanked the guys

well of course I thank the guys this music is incredible you know what I mean but see they keep the label was like why did you thank these guys if all of them weren't specifically involved. And I'm like, because it's their music. And I, but see, again, that's not, it's not like I don't understand their question. I do. But it's, but it's that I was going about it in a different manner and thinking about it

in a different way than they were. Yeah. So it was just more of them. I saw these things as misunderstandings, but ultimately, look, it's my opinion. It is not a fact. is my opinion that there's only one thing that stopped this train. Anybody have a guess? Yeah, go ahead, Colin, take a shot.

The songwriter? Oh, actually, well, well, okay, the present to Bobby Thiel is where I'm getting at. Really? And that's been my question all along. That's how I feel. Is Bobby the reason that the record didn't come out in 1980? They gave. Ah, oh, interesting.

Well, again, they did note him on the three hits. But besides that, obviously it was on Knight of and, well, that's that's that. So I think, look, remember that only so many people came in on the legal counsel because only so many people had the money to pay a lawyer to go after this thing. and and you know factually again bobby was not one of them and bobby and them don't have a good relationship and that has something to do with the way they kicked them out and then did go into interviews and make it very clear to the public that their opinion or they wanted to say that they got doyle and the band it got bobby out because bobby couldn't play and there's a notoriously terrible live bootleg recording of the misfits playing after bobby thing and i guess

the Undead were doing shows and Bobby was talking smack two back and I won't even say the line but in one of the songs Glenn repeats a thing about Bobby Seal as a fucking whatever and says it multiple times and this is out there again I didn't make this up you know so sure I'm just in 1980 this is back then yeah wow and so that bootleg is out there and you know it was commonly traded and was known for oh is that the show that he says that yeah Okay. So the thing is, is that Bobby always felt and always said that I was, I never played bad. I was, I played great.

I was, I was on my game. Like, I showed up. I wasn't drunk. I wasn't on drugs. Like, you know, things have been said. So, again, things that had nothing to do with me and things that had nothing to do with those recordings. Right. So it's, and I get that too.

It's not my band. And I wasn't in the band. I wasn't trying to be the band. I wasn't trying to be bigger than myself. I was just trying to do my damn job and do it really well so that people like myself would be excited about these things and get quality releases that were thrilling. And the sound quality of this record is unbeatable.

It was in this band. I mean, you have Henry Rollins on his radio show. Oh, here we go. Yeah. Spending hours going track by track, talking about how much better you and Allen's mixes. And he's wondering that Henry Rollins,

like close friend of the band, the guy that influenced Earth AD to be as extreme as it is essentially. Right. Saying, this record is fucking amazing. Why? Why isn't it? Why didn't it come out in 1980?

Why isn't it coming out now? Yeah, his quote, he didn't give it to me for the record neither Ian of course or Henry would give me quotes for records and I understand that that's them and but the quote I think from

that broadcast which was maybe 2006 yeah so it was his quote was one of the greatest albums that never was and should have been and I agree you know I think alternative

alternative press listed it not long after that as top 10 unreleased albums, you know, of all time kind of thing too. What's better? What is better? But yeah, I don't, I don't remember the list, but maybe I do have that magazine somewhere. So how much, how long was the development of this? Like how, how intensive was you and Alan mixing this to getting that master back, to getting art done, to getting everything before the band gives you signs that they're putting

the brakes on it? Yeah, let me find one of them. By May of 01 is when the notification went out to people, okay, from Caroline's legal team. And then the email that came to me is on Friday, September 28th. Now, yeah, late in the game, but I understand that. I definitely will take some fault in this game for sure. There's a point where I guess I knew that being so clear and straightforward about Bobby's involvement in the liners to needing feeling a need to represent his tracks and these recordings that Caroline owned that there was going to be some pushback. I probably didn't go out of my way to exclaim that from the top of the mountain.

You know? Okay. So, but. But what do they expect with this being released, if not for this being released? Well, okay. Let's face it. I don't even think I could have made a mix out of, and I checked it, it's actually Doyle's on 10 of the 12 tracks. So I couldn't even mix some of those without. guitar right so it wouldn't it wouldn't exist right and of course it only would 10 hits it

only do they want you to re-record guitars instead yeah right yeah what is great point well like is that something that was that brought up or was it just this cannot exist with bobby's track um no i don't know if anybody even said that because i don't think that was the the game um bobby it was uh we don't like the lay out yeah lay out liner note inaccuracies, these kind of things. And that's what was publicly put out there. Have you spoken to Bobby? I didn't speak to.

No, I didn't either because I didn't want to align myself with anybody. I was already on an island and I was going to stay there alone. So, yeah, I guess I did, I noticed people were telling me what he was saying in certain interviews or things like that and and of course the web was coming around it wasn't just crappy angel fire web pages and stuff so um he was thrilled of course and he and i i think there's there's definitely quotes in interviews where he's like see this will finally show the world that i i was playing well and i was not all those things that people have said about me right damn um i do i think that helped not at all no right right yeah of course right right right right right right so

So he was very excited. He was very happy about it. I had very difficult time dealing with anybody who wasn't part of the actual deal. So when Bobby would want to contact me at a regular basis, it put me in a very difficult position. And I hated being put in these positions, but it was just the way it was. And again, I wasn't even a, I wasn't an employee, Caroline, you know, so.

So you've been gone from Caroline since 97? Yeah, spring of 97. And you're just doing this because you're the guy. Yeah, because I've done it before and I know it and I know what's there. So you're freelancing for them at this time? I was. It was all contract. Yeah, freelancing.

Okay. That's what I was going to ask. Is this passion or? So how much? So within these four months between May and September of development, letting them know it's happening, making this mix happen. How much money is invested in this? Oh God. That, I mean, I honestly, because I wasn't at the label side of it, I only know what, you know, I was, I was going to get paid a flat fee. There's no extension on that for me. It's a one-time deal to do it. And then, but I know, you know, they manufactured jackets and inserts and sleeves for the, you know, the LP. For the worldwide release. Yep. And they manufactured the CDs. And I think that may have been like 40, 50,000 of them, something like that.

God damn. And they all got... And they got destroyed. They just get destroyed. And Caroline eats that. Yeah. It was a... It was a tough time.

People were... Tensions were high for obvious reasons. Sure. Yeah. And again, I hope... I don't know. I hope there's a sense with you guys that, like, even talking about this is somewhat so sobering.

You know, it's a very difficult... thing because I don't go back to this all that often, specifically, you know, this. But I, you know, I always say I wish that things kind of rolled out in a different way. I wish also that they had a better grip on their relationships. I wish that I could have had a – there was never a foundation to be that solid to build off of because the foundation was a wreck. And, you know, you can't fill it. is different now.

Of course. It's different. It's based on different things. It is... So I wonder, Tom. Well, okay, I can tell you that after I did that, if you will, with 12 hits, and after I did the Screen With Me book because I was asked to do it, I can assure you that I, you know, I will have nothing to do with it.

Okay. But they'll be using your co-mix, which is... Well, I wouldn't know. that, but sure. I would hope so. They have... Glad if you're listening. They have the...

This mix is unbelievable. They have the multi-track so they can do as they see fit. And honestly... They have the multi-track. Well, it's Caroline's owned. So if, you know, if they agree to do it, then... And Glenn, what I assume, would want to mix it, then there you go. And you know what?

Honestly, I still feel this way. It's so frustrating to think back about all this stuff because I didn't... I never thought I was going to do any of this stuff. I thought... Right. I thought honestly that Glenn was going to do it. Right. And I never thought that I would be the one trying to conceive projects and put these things together and do art because Glenn did all that back in the day.

So I thought that's how it was going to be. Right. Of course. But that's very difficult to match up the goals and whatnot of a label with the goals of an artist with that amount of money and definitely differing opinions. And Jerry and Doyle also had different opinions on what should be. done with these things and these masters and so does that mean that ultimately all parties declined this oh yeah they united over that for sure really yeah i brought i brought i brought them together yeah there you go you did it tom wow that's may is that like the first joint

decision they had made since the trial well i don't know if the trial was a joint decision either it's just kind of forced hand i know i know i know what you mean um i don't know i mean i don't know i mean Look, they definitely agreed, agreed on that choice for their reasons, whatever those specifically are. They're the only ones who really know that. They agreed more than a double cheeseburger, that's for sure. Yes. So, you know, and look, at that point, Caroline wanted to appease that situation, and I get that too. I was over appeasing that situation

because I tried that multiple times and all I got was, you know, sand kicked in my face. So I didn't really care about trying to be that person anymore because I was just trying to get shit done and also trying to see it and create things like I said that fans like me are going to go fucking nuts for. And I didn't feel, and to be fair, let's face it, like if you look at merch, not Misfits merch,

anybody's merch. A lot of times, especially when you get to become a legacy act, okay? A lot of times I merch from the official store sucks. The worst. The worst.

And then you can hop on Instagram and you get some feed of this guy booting shit and it's fucking badass. It's the best. Okay? And so there was a point to me that like you, there you go. You know who has a great official store?

bad religion oh really oh really they get it man if you go to the bad religion story they know the bangers that everybody wants they're all there yeah and that's and that's tough to see I also know that of course a lot of people especially in legacy acts or whatever don't even want to

bother with okay should we do it against the grain shirt well fuck I don't know that was 35 years ago I don't care yeah okay they know we're talking if somebody on the team knows right right and that's important So in a case like this, you know, I don't think people are looking at the same way as I was. And I understand that.

There are things that I had nothing to do with that they were making decisions upon. But I wasn't concerned with those. And I honestly felt like it's not even my job to be concerned with those. Right. Well, I mean, you were contracted to do this. You did it. Yeah. What happened after that is not really, it's who cares?

Yeah, I said at the end, I said regardless of anything that if the guys feel this way about it, then I will walk away from it and I won't have to work with you guys again. And that's the way I meant it. If I'm that unwanted in this case or what my vision of it was so unwanted, then, yeah, I shouldn't be around. Which the simplest way to put your vision is that it should exist. Well, I believe that, yeah, of course. And it's like a young me, it looks at this as, oh, this is the Misfits, you know? Oh, this is the definitive Misfits album. So it just never made sense to me.

I do love the fact that it became a thing in itself. and again talk about okay first off this project adding to the mystique right and i didn't i wasn't attempting to i was trying to clarify things right and all i did was add to the chaos i was trying to clean it up and then even with the book screen with me i was just trying to uh put it all where you could just soak it all in in one sitting kind of thing and then look at it multiple times again and learn and more and more semore. And it just wasn't wanted by the band. It's like the monkey paw.

It's like we want to record a really great record. And it will never come out. Yeah, yeah, you know, it's literally like. The base is out of tune. Exactly. Yeah. So I tried. I don't think that I don't look at it that I was.

some victim of anything. I think we were all victims of circumstances. Yeah. That this was an eventuality that I think it finally came to a head. And honestly, I guess they released, and I'd say I guess because I honestly didn't pay attention. But maybe there was a Bucca Maryland 12 inch that was released for record store a day, maybe last year or something like that. Something like that. Yeah, right.

I got it. Okay. So, but okay, so that was what. It says Glenn Danzig on it. Oh, okay. So it does. Okay. It's like the original.

Right, right, right. Okay. So still, so since 2001, since I tried, last tried, not a single thing has come out about the misfits. They haven't released anything. Interesting. So once, once, once. Yeah. Well.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The OG misfits, right? Right. Okay.

So within that concept, once I stopped trying, it proved clearly. clearly that none of them had the real interest because that's that's the proof in the pudding which like you but you got to just accept it's just the way it is yeah or at least it not not accept the blame or anything in any way it's just hey hey they don't want it i pushed that i think tom sorry i do you think that if bobby would have pitched in for a lawyer that would have changed the outcome. I certainly think that if, say, Googie and Bobby, you know. If they were part of that and they had litigation, if that would have...

Again, this is my personal opinion, being very clear, that this is just individual belief, not based on any fact. Yes, I would happen to think so, sure. Yeah. But again, the foundation was not there. It was never going to be that. there were the Bobby band situation was when you know going down when I was 11 you know so yeah it is funny to think about me listening to like wearing the badge from the coffin set and walking around

with those CDs being like man this band's pretty fucking good and meanwhile at the same time all of this is falling apart all of it's going out yeah that I mean it's and at the very least I can say Tom is that The work you did on this in particular made me a fan of the band. Well, that's awesome. I mean, that alone is worth it. The way that has impacted my life now is insane. That's pretty cool. Very few other bands compared.

I tried to think about it when I was actually given the ability to put records together. I tried to think about what it was like to go to Stan's Record Bar in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, where I grew up. and every Friday when my brother would pick me up he was four years older right so he had the car he picked me up at high school we would go to stands and spend two three hours there every Friday afternoon in the evening and make it home in time for dinner and and to have spent the money that whether I earned it doing shitty chores or whether I earned it at a job um I took that money and plopped it down to buy this one thing that somebody put so much work into And so that connection in between the effort and the enjoyment was something that I never took for granted. So I always wanted to put as much as I could into the things. And I still do that today. Boy, do you ever, because let me tell you, those witness re-releases just showed up. Yeah.

And there was a moment where I put on innocence and I was reading the notes and I kind of just teared up. Oh, wow. That's awesome. Because that did not exist. This is another thing. You made this thing, this beloved cult favorite thing that didn't exist now is a real thing. It's beautiful. It was fun too because, again, I kind of look at it as you gain contacts and you guys will feel the same way.

Obviously, the two of you connecting through music, all the people you meet every town you go to and photographers or promoters or fans and whatnot. We collect all this, and especially we can rely on it and lean on it sometimes. So I was, of course, took over A&R at Century Media in 1998 after I love Caroline and at at Breaston at Revelation in Huntington Beach. And so it was kind of a right of passage to be a huge, only living, an only living witness fan at Century Media. So I have those contacts in one of my closest friends who literally worked as a, like, We hired him as a secret shopper at the holiday time at the record store I worked at in college, 87 to 91.

And he's still at Century Media. He's the one who knew that the job was available when I got it in 98, you know, to be a and are there. And he's still there, but he's in Germany. And to sit there and go, hey, dude, I'm dying to do these, you know, only live in witness records, but I'm not going to do it as straight reproduction. I want to redo the art. I want to read imagine everything. I want to do double albums with bonus tracks and things and do all this. And he's like, as long as Jonah's cool with it, I'm cool with it.

And because of that connection, I was able to have that flexibility to do everything. And so, you know, it's fun to do this because you just want to make sure that when it gets there on the other end, that that person is just fucking sight. I'm God, I know that they are because they look amazing. That's cool. Thanks, man. Of course. Tom, this has been.

So fun. I think we should I have like a couple general questions. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Just something. We have said multiple times

on this show that the misfits are one of the most, if not the most important and influential American DIY punk band, underground band, whatever you want to call them. I just want to know,

having done so much and been around, like how, where would you find that? Do you feel the same? Yeah. Oh, certainly. I mean, the influence that this man has had not only in punk, but in not even in hardcore, because, of course, they're so adjacent, you know, near each other.

But in, well, and, of course, metal has become so adjacent to those as well. But in metal, I mean, that's how you see the, the effect that they had, obviously in Metallica. I mean, if there's no Metallica, I can almost assure you we wouldn't have been in a position to be able to pay the amount of money that Caroline did for those masters. How many of us would have heard of them to this extent that we do? They really champion. And that's Cliff Burton.

You know, that was Cliff. So and then to an extent, Kurt, too. So when you have this happening and when they're blowing up, think about the timing of these scenarios. Metallic is becoming not even yet the biggest band. but they were the biggest from that scene in the world, you know, at the time. And then, of course, they went on. But they were kind of beyond the Misfits thing by the time Black album came out. This is really that master and then in justice period where it was the shirts,

the Erie was printing for them, that kind of influence of, because they basically took all the things we loved. I grew up in Lancaster, PA, and then in New Jersey, they would always air these, the Hammer Horror movies out of the Philadelphia channels. And Hammer Horror are the Christopher Lee movies and all the great B and C, level horror. It was just incredible on Saturday afternoons and just loved it. Well, Glenn took that kind of passion and then

infused it into music before him. Literally, some of his things are almost like brilliant Wikipedia pages. Yeah. The fly. You know, return the fly. Here is this movie I watched. Yeah. I watched it. It was fucking awesome.

Yeah. Right. And but he does it with and then he brings that Sinatra vibe, which he does. And it's like, so all of a sudden, like, because you know, he's, he's a little older than the rest of the guys. And so his influence in coming in with these crooners. And then there's this like twisted 68 and onward, you know, post hippie thing going on.

And then the 70s and a weirdness. And he's this, I mean, the beauty about all really great artists is that they were really just, and I'm not calling him one, but what of some people would consider nerds. And Glenn's like this like horror guy and he's like into a band, but he plays keyboards. and oh, that guy, he's weird. I don't know, right? Most people would think this stuff. They end up, the real, and again, Rollins talks about this.

I think he sent me something after I sent him a box setting. It was like, you know, the vision of that guy is insane. And thank you for bringing it all together, that kind of, you know, scenario. And so I think we all caught that vision because there's so many of us, especially as dudes, you know, who are into these horror movies and just that kind of, I don't know, and especially because he did DIY stuff, the art is so easily replicated. It's basically a silk screening and, you know, really classic simple stuff. And I don't know, I think that influence is so huge because, not just because of the music, but also, of course, the music

had to be great. I mean, the idea of the Feene Club and, oh my God, it's just he had it all. And he was so ahead of his time because it was so now that any of those things are, freaking like literally thousands of dollars of treasure. Yeah. I mean, it's just become so much. And yet the thing is when you read the letters that are inside those Feene Club things,

when you write personal letters to the people, maybe they asked a stupid question. He would literally tell them. That's a dumb question, but you know, hey, thanks for writing. And it was just honesty, this rawness,

this like real thing. And that was the bummer because like, when did the Screen With Me book, it was literally a love letter to them and then they literally had them go, we didn't want this stupid ass love letter. that's tough so that did they do you know if they read it or if it was just like we're not interested oh they definitely seen it for sure we you know we sent them copies when the whole thing

was going down and i know jerry likes it i just know these people like it there's no doubt i mean they look like freaking i mean same with erie's book that i did i mean these books i mean they become they look like the even though it was punk rock and it was to 75 to 125 people or whatever it might have been it was um they looked like freaking rock gods. Yeah. They look amazing. There's it.

Yeah. When I worked at a Whole Foods in, on the south side of Chicago in the South Loop, Jerry lived in Chicago for like 10 years. Okay. And he would come in. I never saw it. But part of the reason I like took the job was because it was a bunch of metal guys. And he would come in and they would yell at him from where at the counter was.

You could see the entrance. And he would do the like, wah! From across the thing. And one time he like came in and was buying fish and his car. got towed and someone said over the PA it was like Jerry your whatever is getting towed out front and he ran out. Oh man.

And the reason I even bring it up is because he's such a he's Jerry only. He's such like a guy and he is. I've only heard he is. Great thing. Yeah. Huge person. He's cool as fuck is what I've heard.

Huge personality here. Do you have a favorite misfit song, Tom? Like what's your favorite one? Well, actually I would probably agree with one column mentioned in the beginning of the hybrid moments. It's probably the guaranteed go-to. So there's some songs I feel like offer a spread across the styles of the band, not just the one. And a hybrid just, it's so melodic and so beautiful and so weird and so driving.

So hard to sing. Oh, wow. It's such a like intense register the whole time. Yeah. And it's got these like notes that shouldn't work in it. I can't, I don't know how I'll describe it. It shouldn't work. I know exactly.

I know it. But it's perfect. The first time I heard that song, it was in a jackass episode. Yeah. Oh, wow. It's just on TV. I was like, oh, that's the misfits. That's, I don't know this song, you know.

Right, right, right. Yeah. Which this didn't come out at all until they broke up. Imagine that. Imagine loving this band in the, being one of the cult fiend club guys the whole time and then hearing this song right crazy yeah yeah yeah it's it's always it's a very unique scenario because you name all of the other great especially you know if we keep it the u.s all the other great u.s punk bands for that era over those years that wave

and all of them released records and did that normal approach which collin is why you're seeing here going but why was it like this why was it like this yeah yeah but and Again, it's just that's why this band has so much magnetism to it. There's so much to sink your teeth into. And, you know, I know by the end with 12 hits, I pushed it too far. Clearly, I did. And I didn't, I wasn't my intention. I was caught up in the excitement of it.

Yeah. Why wouldn't you? Right. So, but I do realize that. And I was content to walk away from it at that point because we had done so much. And the thing is, we did so much good stuff, you know, through those periods. And even if they didn't like all of it. And I know they didn't.

Collectively, you know, there were challenges along the way, but ultimately they all added to it. And the things that are happening today. I mean, is it something that you hang your hat on? Is it something that you're personally proud of? Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. Good. You should be.

You obviously should. I mean, you created those 2,000 promo copies that are out there. that's just another piece of the puzzle baby oh I'm going on discodic right now it's it yeah it's that added to it again we talk of you know I know I spoke about mystique but that's only again I didn't cool as far and that's part of what got me into it yeah yeah don't know man you got to listen to the secret one yeah

yeah right yeah this is this is that little bit of snobbery that we all have drove into us like this thing of like making a mixtape and make a mixtape for somebody and they're like oh I didn't like that I was like well of course you didn't you're not cool it's that and it's and it's totally

dickish but it's totally true it's just who you know it's part of who we are there's always going to be an inkling to that so this idea that you now were told about this thing that wasn't released and now it's like ooh almost exotic because of fact that it's illegal you know I shouldn't have it

Well, of course. That's why you won't. Yeah. Thank you. This is why Motley crew, Motley crew, Nikki Sixth insisted on putting the warning label in the middle of the tipper gore era of, you know, censorship on music. And they put the warning label on Shout the Devil when he knew straight up that they had nothing. They just wanted it on there because he's like, because this will piss your parents off. Yeah.

So, so that's that kind of attitude. And, you know, I'm definitely proud of. of those points, but I know that there's nothing perfect about that. I mean, you got a lot done, okay? Even if this didn't happen. Two or three is pretty good. Two hundred three is pretty good, dude. Because static age is the greatest punk debut album ever.

What a crazy thing to say. And am I wrong? Static age, TV casualties, some kind of hate, last crest, return to the fly. Hybrid Moments, We Are 138. Teenagers from Mars, Come Back, Angel, Hollywood Babylon, Attitude, Bull, in for a jackal. And don't forget, yeah. And don't forget the other bonus tracks.

She, spinal remains. And then, misfits, if you're listening, they followed it up with their greatest follow-up punk album in history. That the world, many, many, most people still don't know. They know the songs. Right. Yeah, right. They don't know the version.

And that's the thing. And that is the thing about that is that it wasn't, in some ways you know i i i'm sure i talked about it with people at the time and it was like was there anything unreleased i'm like well yes and no no no not new compositions or on her the album itself but the album itself as a whole to be seen as the vision of this man at that time um and look i know it went sideways once once what was really discovered on the tapes i you know that's where it went sideways there's no question but it was just so incredible I did what I did.

Oh, and I'm going to ask you guys, so I want to point something else about this record, is that there's a, there's a little Easter egg on that record in the music, because at one point during Hort Hotel, which is one of my favorites, would be at top five, is that he says a line, and I think Alan and I were just sitting there. We mixed it over two days, a mix a master, in two days. And he sings a line.

I was like, does he really just say, it comes down to me when it comes down to naked with girls necking with girls and I was like really just say that so Alan switching instead of for whatever accidental reason he switched to the scratch track to for us to listen to it on its own isolated right? Uh-huh.

Instead of listening to the finished, you know, the finished vocal track and he switched to it and all of a sudden Glenn actually sings when it comes down to Barry in the Goals whatever and I was like, I just like paused. It was a different lyric. And Alan turned around and looked at me and was like,

you want to use that, don't you? And I was like, fuck, fuck, yeah, dude. Dude, you know what's so crazy? And we're going to do it. Static age is so necking with girls. Yeah. And 12 hits is so burying the ghouls. Yeah, there you go.

There you go. I like that. All right. Yeah. So we did. I put, I put, that one line is from the scratch track. That's fucking awesome. Hard lore exclusive.

And I'll tell you, I don't think I've ever had anybody come to me and say that, that they heard that and they wondered about it. Well, now I'm going to. I think it's just, again, I think the mind already hears what they're going to hear because it wasn't a brand new song to them. So they were kind of like lost in it. And Alan and I felt like even though the scratch track vocal, as you could imagine, was probably not as highest quality in the, mix we could get away with it and seem seamlessly so that's actually in there so the way to I'll take the ghouls over the girls yeah well before girls based on your based on your Halloween expertise Colin I believe that entirely yes oh 100% dude well Tom can't thank you enough

thank you guys you've enjoyed this this very special chat this is our Halloween special It's a little late. Glenn, Jerry, Doyle, Arthur, Bobby, if you're listening. Robo. Robo. This is out of love. We love the band more than any other band, and that's that, you know? Very true.

Tom, we hope that you're able to listen to The Misfits again after the trauma you've endured. We do it every day, so not to worry. Okay. Well, you guys are carrying a torch for me. So I really appreciate that. Very cool. Go proudly. All right. Best band ever. We hope that you don't go find this session and listen to it. You're not going to love it. That was this incredible special deep dive into the 12 fits from hell.

Thank you all so much. Thank you, Tom, for being here. Thank you, guys. Appreciate it. See you next week. Cheers. Bye. Bye.