HardLore - A Day with Anthony Anzaldo (CEREMONY)

Episode Date: August 10, 2023

Colin and Bo explore Los Angeles, California with Anthony Anzaldo of Ceremony, Cold Cave, and new solo project ANTHONY, as Bo gets a tattoo from renowned tattoo artist (who just happens to be Anthony's wife) Heather Bailey. They thorough explore Anthony's journey from attending legendary wrestling events as a Bay Area child, discovering punk/hardcore/straight edge as a freshman in high school, Ceremony's early days into their uniquely ever-evolving discography, nearly 20 years of veganism and MUCH more. Please enjoy our newest installment of the "A Day With..." series with this 2+ hour adventure to discover why this modern Bay Area hardcore legend planted his roots in Southern California. Thank you to Anthony for joining us, Heather for hosting us at Holy Union, and Monty's Good Burger for hosting us. Join the HARDLORE DISCORD: https://discord.gg/jA9rppggef This episode is brought to you by ATHLETIC GREENS! Try AG1 at athleticgreens.com/HARDLORE to receive a free 1-year supply of vitamin D and 5 travel packs of AG1. Join WHATNOT with our special little link to get $15 off your first purchase. Get ready for the first ever Hardlore live auction TOMORROW, March 24th at 8:30 PM EST: https://www.whatnot.com/invite/hardlore Get 20% OFF @manscaped + Free Shipping with promo code HARDLORE at MANSCAPED.com! #ad #manscapedpod FOLLOW ANTHONY/CEREMONY: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/anthonyxanzaldo/ INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/ceremony/ TWITTER | https://twitter.com/ceremony FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/hardlorepod/ TWITTER | https://twitter.com/hardlorepod SPOTIFY | https://spoti.fi/3J1GIrp APPLE | https://apple.co/3IKBss2 FOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/colinyovng/ TWITTER | https://www.twitter.com/ColinYovng FOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/bosxe/ TWITTER | https://www.twitter.com/bosxe Check out our merch at https://knotfest.com/store/?view=hardlore Find all of our videos at https://knot1.co/3vWXsbx #HardLore #AnthonyAnzaldo #Ceremony   HardLore: A Knotfest Series, Fueled by Monster Energy Edited by Steven Grise • Title sequence by Nicholas Marzluf Join the HARDLORE PATREON to watch every single weekly episode early and ad-free, alongside exclusive monthly episodes. Join the HARDLORE DISCORD for community discussions and to participate in our future Q&A episodes. FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER, SPOTIFY, APPLE FOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAM FOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER   For sponsorship opportunities, email us! [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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We're going to sell some really cool stuff next week. And it's a live hard lore episode that airs one time. Yeah, you never get to see it. You just get to participate. So don't miss it, man. Back to this episode. Hello, welcome. It's Hardlore Time. How are you both? I'm feeling great.

Feeling so good. We're in my hometown of Los Angeles, California. What are we doing it? I don't know yet. There's no plans. We figured we're very thirsty boys. We like juice, so we figured we'd come here and get a juice. I heard this place was pretty good.

Hopefully we can run into somebody that can show us something to do around here. But until then... It's Anthony from there. Anthony. Hey. Hey, bud. Hey, buddy. Oh, my God.

What are you doing? Whoa. He's miced up and ready to go. This keeps happening. This is Rick Owens. This is Anthony Anzoldo from Ceremony, Cold Cave, and Anthony. All facts. Wow.

All facts. This is amazing. What do you say we get some deuce and then just go around L.A. today? I would love nothing more. Yeah, you busy? I would love nothing more. I'm very busy, but I will drop it all. Cancel on everyone.

Perfect. I'm yours. Awesome. Let's get some juice. Now, there's an ordering, there's a situation. So you can get like a juice. And this is Beverly Hills Juice Club. Yes.

You can get a juice the end if you want. I'm liking that. I'm liking that. Or you get whatever juice is talking to you. Oh. and you get it with the banana manna and that makes it are you not a banana i can't do i'm a huge banana okay then we are we beefing bananas it's just like i like it to eat a banana uh-huh i like it to eat of banana uh-huh but when it comes down to like banana flavoring uh-huh it's not it's not i could

i could linda blair right on you know all about that yes something you know about okay or you do a comparing and contrast you get the juice and spend another and do spend $25 and just just for the bit an extra I'll do that for you and I'll just get me a mixed green probably let's let's order some juice and then we'll talk about why we're here ordering some juice I would love the apple blackberry coconut with the almond banana manna to please those and I think My friend here would like the same.

Sounds awesome. Pardon me. Now let me ask you some advice here. First time. If I was doing an apple ginger, thank you, an apple ginger of sorts. Is there one that you like the best? Like what apple lemon double ginger sounds extreme. I was gonna say that.

That's my favorite one. Let's go, let's get nuts. When in this movie? No. Just a bonnet's on. I'm not there yet. He's afraid of the banana. It scares me.

Yes. Cheers. The reason we wanted to fill our goal, it's full of sugar today, was Bo here is getting a fresh tattoo by your wife. This is, this is a fact. More facts. Heather Baylanzal, the Holy Union tattoo. Yep. You know.

A talented young woman. Good? Yeah, there's a hint of banana. It's really not that much. Bowie-likey? Bowie-likey. It's delicious. I think it's the goat drink of Los Angeles.

Really? Ooh. Wow. That's very good. Yeah. Now this is, this might be the goat drink of Los Angeles, to be honest. It's just where, it's where you go for juice. It's a spicy, spicy beverage.

Yeah? Okay. Yeah, I guess we should talk about, let's talk about Anthony. Yeah. Anthony. You're a baby. You're a area of man. This is, yeah.

But this is your, this is your zone. This is home. When did you move here? October of 2017. The day of... Oh, really? Halloween. October 27th.

Halloween. I live adjacent to Dodger Stadium. And we moved on the first day of the World Series. Oh, my God. Which they were playing in, performing in. Yeah, which they were performing in the baseball team. They were performing in the World Series. Okay.

I didn't know I lived that close until that day. Perfect. So I thought I was moving into a quiet neighborhood, and it was not quiet on that evening, my friend. It's not the place you're in now. It's on that street, yes. We moved to Los Angeles. We moved into one house. One year later, we moved two houses down.

But yes, I've been here since 2017. Do you think you'll be here for the rest of your life? I sure hope so. You're an L.A. boy. I'm an L.A. boy. I love it here. It felt like home immediately. Also, being from the Bay,

like down here all the time for shows, it's not that far. I mean, we like to talk about how far it is, but in the grand... It just adds up when you're driving. We can get dinner there tonight if we wanted to. I won't. We could.

I will not. We could. So you, as a... a Bayboy as a young small lab. Yeah. When did you discover punk music? Fresh or near, well, I discovered punk music. Yeah.

I guess punk and hard punk in the like the subculture of punk, punk community. Yes. Fresh and year of high school. I sat next to a gentleman named Scott Phillips in first period. What was the class? Class was Um, this utter was her name.

And she had cow, cow themed everything. She owned it. She owned it. She owned it. Yeah, it was, it was algebra. It was out of okay.

Um, dude, real quick, fresh, hit me in your first period. Health, first subject of the year, sex to learn about boobies and stuff.

Right away? Second period, gym class. Some, you're way too, you're way too horny going into his gym class. I'm not fucking believe. I took health in summer school

like a real piece of shit. Wait, what? You took the unfailable class in summer school. So Scott Phillips. Scott Phillips, who's staying in a band called Life Long Tragedy. So we sat freshman year, you're sitting next to life long tragedy. So we sit next to each other. Our personalities are in sync. I grew up in a sort of a musical family.

my dad was a radio rep for Elektra records and MCA records. Wow. My uncle, his twin brother, was the head of promotion at Maverick Records, which was Madonna's label. Right. So that was like, kind of the family biz. So I was like, I'm music guys. All three of us have dads. That's interesting.

So you remember being young and be like, yeah, you guys like music, but like me? I, I, my dad is ripping. In Dracula notes at three in the morning. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. My dad's writing music about God, who would leave? Brutal. I wouldn't.

No, no, no. It was pretty good. I would not. I would not believe it. Yeah, I would, I shan't. Believe it. What shirt was he wearing? It must have been an AFI hoodie.

Best, besties. How many? Maybe a Nervyns hoodie. I was 15. Now I don't. Now I'm 15 still. Yeah, that's, still 15 year.

That's a 15 year old. What year did you graduate high school? I graduate at 18. That you're doing, this is awesome. This is killing. Yeah, no, you're doing my head is doing backless. Because I'm trying to think, I probably got into AFI around the same time in the year. Yeah. That's what I'm saying.

They were my gateway. When did you graduate high school? Um, 70. You were 17. Yeah. What year? Seven, no, 2006. Okay, I'm 2005.

So we're, so we're very close. Right. Um, so Scott was really into hardcore. Sure. And so I'm in freshman year. That's interesting. Yeah. Going in.

So this was first period, first semester of freshman year. I already like Hart. Yeah. So he was all summer he's thinking. And he was young. If I sure. He was young for our grade too. He's a year younger than me.

So he was, I mean, lifelong started. I think he was 14. Oh, yeah. Um, and so he, he introduced me to, um, the scene and the genre of hardcore. And I was so enthralled because it was something I didn't,

was unfamiliar with. So I was like, there's, there's music that I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, right. You know what I mean? Jucklehead. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. There's a lot. There's a lot. I had the same trajectory where I was like, oh, Blinkwood 82 is cool. You know, whatever's on the radios. I kind of like more, the more aggressive stuff. And then it was like, misfits AFI. Right. As soon as I found out what those were.

Over. It was over. I was hauling. I was exing up at school. Exing up with eyeliner. So was A-F-I like the band? I mean, so this was before seeing the sorrow, which is a 10 out of 10 out of moment. One of the greatest ever. I think we would all agree.

We were all there at the 20-year anniversary. Yep. I forget that it was 20. So yeah, and so the thing my AFI, they played the Phoenix Theater, which was in Petaluma, which bordered the town of Brunner Park. It is where we live. Exactly, which if I wrote a song about, so they were very recognized in the North Bay. Right. Yeah. So they were, they were a big deal and got, you know, most all of us into punk and hardcore.

I mean, they're just like a perfect vessel band to go from. Totally. Not knowing anything to being all in. Because you can go back in the discography and see about early hardcore days and they've been about it. And their influences were so broad that no matter which sort of subculture you belong to or spoke to you, you would find something in them that resonated with you. You look in that room at the Singings-Sorrow anniversary thing. Right next to each other, it was Bo who's a who likes the who and Peter Gabriel. Yeah, yeah. It was Rody King who likes favorite NFI.

Yeah. And it was Colin Young who likes... Anthony and A.F.I. Yeah. I was going to say Hans Zimmer. Oh, that's my big too. Yeah. It's like you say how when bands wear shirts and the promos and they wear it on the sleeve, that was very apparent with AFI and that's like good.

Totally. The best. The way it should be, wear shirts and your promos? Bands. So when do you take up an instrument for something? instrument for something. I picked up an instrument a year before. I had started, I bought a Purple Stratocaster.

Well, my father bought me a Purple Stratocaster for my birthday this summer before because I wanted to, I wanted to be Prince. So Prince came before punk music. Well, well, well before. Yeah, I, um, first time I saw Prince was in 1996. I was 10, Jam of the Year tour. So that was like, and then the, following Christmas, I got every one of his record. So that was my, Prince was my guy well before that.

So I didn't get into guitar from rock. I wasn't a rock guy. Yeah, I was a Prince guy. Cool. Prince is the guitar music. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And then obviously getting into punk, you find other people who are just starting to learn how to play their instruments. And that's the beauty of the genres that you could join a band without really. really being that experience. Right. Absolutely. I mean, that's, amen.

To this day, yeah. I'm certain bands with guys over 30 who are like, I'll try to be in a man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Prince, people don't know, man. People don't think of them as this upper echelon guitar player. But we've talked about this a couple times. That fucking live while my guitar gently weaves solo.

He shreds. I have worn out that tape, my man. That guitar is still on YouTube. Yeah, still fly. I'm linking it in the description of this below. So click on that. It is unreal. And if you really want to take a deep dive, I found this.

I can't remember the teacher's name, but there's a guitar teacher that breaks down that solo and the modes that he uses that are a bit unconventional for the key, but why it works, but why you think it wouldn't work. And it's like, it makes the improv of that solo even more. impressive. How proficient were you a guitar in your first man? I was pretty you could read. I was pretty good fast. I started taking lessons immediately and I always told my teacher to give me things that he knows for certain I can't play. Challenge. So I was and it just I'm not I'm not trying to do a thing. It's something that came natural to me and I practiced a lot and I had a teacher who taught me how to practice well. So I was I was good fast. And how was that during your freshman year or was it quite? Yeah. So in my yes, during my

freshman year I got I would say is when I got so you became a consistent hardcore punk showgoer and musician yeah at the same time. Yeah. So already things are things are moving things are getting it. Things are kid. You figured out your world. That's right. That's right. That's right. You moved in. But world, here I am. What was your very first band? My first band was called The Rubber Band. Sexy.

It was with... There was a band called Set It Straight. Oh, I remember Set It Straight. Okay, so the singer of Set It Straight, who's from Roneer Park later moved to Redding, was two grades older than me. So he was a junior. And we started the rubber band together.

And it was like one of those bands where... The rubber band. The rubber band. Was this a thing where you were like... You were like, we need a name. And he was like, I don't have anything. I just have this rubber band. Wait, wait.

Say that again. Dude, it's kind of the rubber band. That is, that's Colin Young right there. That right there, that's Colin Young. I love it. Is it the rubber band or the rubber band? One word. Rubber band was the item.

The rubber band. Yeah, but the rubber, like the band. So I don't think we ever got to the points of stylizing it. And it was one of those bands where every song was a different genre. Yeah. You got to have one of those. That's how the first band is all. It was just one of those.

You threw beat down. Yeah. And you're covering the funniest shit. Yeah. Peter Gabriel. Totally. Yeah. Yeah, we were new.

We were doing. We were doing Peter Gabriel. Yeah, yeah. And then we played the Phoenix once. Whoa, that's pretty... That's awesome. I remember calling Tom Gaffey, who owns the Phoenix, just... That's how you did it.

Yeah. I called him. I left a message. Hey, I'm this person. I play in a band called this. Would love to play the Phoenix. Months later, Tom Gaffey calls me and goes, hey, going down my list and it looks like we owe you a show.

Wow. We have a show with a toast machine, inertia, and exposure. We'd love for you to open, and we open the Phoenix Theater once. You know, obviously, ceremony went on to play the Phoenix Theater a lot, and the first two homesick events we had at the Phoenix. I frequented the venue many times. Still around? It's still around.

Oh. And Tom remembers one of the last time I was there, he was like, I remember, man I remember when you played with the rubber band and we were not we like weren't a band you know what I mean like we just we it barely existed yeah I mean you back you fucking flung your way into his heart but it's like to open as an unknown a first of four and then he's like he's a special Tom Gaffee of the Phoenix is a is a legendary figure awesome and the North Bay what were some some you know marquee gigs that you used saw as a youth that really affirmed that this is the thing that you wanted to be done. There was a band called Resilience. There were like a street punk band that would play the Phoenix a lot and that was those shows where I was like oh this is like not just a fun this isn't just a new genre that I'm that is I'm absorbing but it like kind of showcased the community aspect of it so those early resilient shows but like there were

was, you know, this is when A.N. would come through the bay. Converge would come through the bay. That era, you know, 2001, that was like the first year. But then, I mean, this was, I was well into punk by then. But when I think back about shows in like my late teens and early 20s that made me, that really blew me away was, it's looked back and last. I'd Gilman. I think this is the first ever Look Back and Laugh Shout out

On Harvard So it's funny Years ago I was listening to Another Another podcast What? Turned out of punk Turned out of punk

Fucked up Hey buddy Hey Damien And he was talking about Look Back and Laugh And how underrated they are And I In the Bay

I think they're underrated In the Bay They're very much Not Underrated They were rated They're very celebrated and just blew everybody away. Every member of the band, they're one of those bands where you were like, you were like, how did the five of you find each other? Yeah.

There was like a bus stop band. Exactly. And every, and live every member was essential. But my first ever show that was like I knew I was going to a hardcore show. right was the first life-on tragedy show ah um and it was your boys big show yeah there were my friends band first show first friends band yeah really right right yeah feel like it's yours exactly yeah yeah exactly and it was them and beneath the ashes at west coast worldwide in sacramento wow yeah what west coast worldwide mackie hoods not oh shit oh yeah yeah

Wow. So that kind of changed it all for all of us. Yeah. Because Lifelong, you know, they were like an, they were an active band who would play Gilman and would play like a show down here. Absolutely. So they were like, oh my God, we could, that's a pot. That's a thing that's possible.

Yeah, we can do it. Yeah. And there were our friends. Yeah. Unheard of. You know. And they were all in high school. Wow.

So Lifelong tragedy, they opened. Open some door street. Life long tragedy is why is why the North Bay. It exists 100%. You heard it here. It's a fact. It's a fact. It's on record.

We're facts. We love it. Big. Yeah. It's all lore. We love. It is all lore. All the way down.

It's while we're here. Yeah. Let's get Bo over to his doctor's appointment here. Dr. Heather's got to fuck him up. Get to yad it out. Yeah. This has been Beverly Hills Juice Pub. I loved this. Yeah, this was delicious. I crushed it. I'm doing, I'm trying so hard.

You were talking about. I'm a usual, I'm a, I'm a three-sip guy. Oh, same. This is a 10. Yeah. We'll see you at Holy Union. It is very hot. We're at Holy Union Tattoo. We are now joined by another guest of honor, Heather Bailey Anzaldo, co-owner and resident Tatter, President Tatter, at Holy Union. How are you, Heather? I'm great, how are you? So good. So hot. So hot, but, you know, so much hotter when I'm with the hottest married couple in the world, frankly, scientifically. How long have you guys been married now?

We are coming up on seven years. Seven. Laws a talk. Yeah. What was your first impression when you saw each other in the wild? Well. Well. Let me just give you the story.

Oh. Oh. I'm grateful for it. I was in a Whole Foods market. And Heather here was with a mutual friend of ours. We had never met. And we knew of each other. Right.

How could you not? Same circles. Of course. How could you not? Our friend walks up to me, introduces us, and then she remarks at my Depeche Mode to my Depeche Mode tattoo. Violator tattoo.

Yeah, and Heather says, oh my goodness, we have the same tattoo. And I said, yeah, but mine's bigger. Okay. Wow. Is that really what you said? It's true. It's true. The kids these days talk about a little thing called Riz.

I think it was invented in that moment. And now here they are. Years later. Seven years on. Yeah. For the first time, I was a couple on film. Yep. But Bo's here today to get you added up.

We got him full of juice and sugar. I'm all juiced up. And then we're going to kind of go through the history of Anthony as a musician, of Heather as a tatter, and just get down to the lore of these two lovebirds. Just immerse ourselves in this beautiful city that we reside. In the air conditioning as soon as possible. Let's go inside.

Come on in, Sean. Ladies and gentlemen, for the first time, there's a couple of Mr. Mrs. Bobin. But what are you getting tatted today? I'm getting a Sean Michaels inspired dagger because Heather and I also share a love for Sean Michaels. I think we all share a love for us. We do. Big time.

Wrestling, big time. That's the other thing. So many things in common. Heartbreak kids. Let me ask you this. To the group. Which one of us was at the Sean Michaels razor room? Here we go.

You were there? I know the answer. I know the answer. Holy shit. Who was there? It wasn't me. It was Anthony. It was me.

Forget about that all the time. Spoil. Except they don't. Spoil. When he pulls the belt off, he falls really up. That's a bump. Yeah, like he bumps hard. That looks like people.

And he got back up there for the, for the one shot. Oh. Had to. Had to. No choice. So wrestling's the best. And that's why I'm getting a Sean Michael's dagger. So myrails rocks.

His is in the shape of Vanessa. Did you know that? You got to, are you going to get a beat? I wish. Up saying, just like, ah. Is it Emily Rose beat? No. Not doing it.

She's thinking about it now. I can see. I can see. Let's see what we'll turn. Let's talk about this real quick. Let's talk about this. Check that. There's four,

four edging. Yes. And this is the first tattoo that Heather did on me. Oh, that's fucking awesome. This is the first, this is the second time we ever met was, was this tattoo. I'm thinking about getting the hardest, the hardest tattoo ever. Will you marry? Can you see it?

Yeah. Can you see that? Yeah. He's crying. It's an emotional guy. I feel you. I feel it. That's fucking awesome.

I feel it. What a story. I feel it. Yeah. Yeah. So tell me about finding, finding straight-ed. How soon into your, uh... Very, very soon.

I'm never, I've never, I've never, drank alcohol so I found I found straight edge at the at the top of my um of my entry into into punk and that's really what allowed me to sink my teeth in straight edge Mount Rushmore oh bands or humans oh whatever you want that's fun maybe two bands two humans bands minor threat yeah we what well do you not consider them a straightage band I do Tom care. De facto. Yeah, de facto.

Proto. They're the stooges. They did it. They're the stooges to straight edge and youth of today is like the remote. Look at that. But on certain days, I want to count the stooges as a punk band. So on that day, I'll count minor thread. It's in argument.

Yeah, they make. Yeah. As to borrow a young term, young with a capital Y, scientifically. scientifically, um, infest. That's a great answer.

Look at that. The logo with the chain where you're set up. I mean, I got to give it to you to today because they like ritualized. They made the straight-edge that we now know and love and sometimes are. I challenge you

to listen to Break Down the Walls, the song. And not just It's fucking good. It's good American music. Straight up. But it's true. It's like a club sandwich.

Yeah. Hey, we're vegetarian. Hey, we're fucking, like we have our group of guys, like our youth group thing. We're doing something different. And hey, we're this thing. Not like, it's okay if you're not. But it was like that and like, dude, we just might. It's the hardest, one of the hardest head songs ever.

I mean, and so inspired. You know what I mean? Like, you could tell, I mean, Ben, that seemed like they really meant all that. And, yeah, incredible songwriters, the whole thing. What's your fourth thing? They have straight-edge songs, but they're not an entirely straight-edged band.

But boy, don't want to put in AFI. Oh, honorary. Honorary, right? I mean, like, come on. Dave has as much to go. He has a lot to go around. Say, yeah. Say less.

Yeah. Yeah. Easy. That's easy. I'm with you. I'll take it. I know you are because of your policy on how many band members have to be.

So Harvestway started off as a straight edge band. Me, Chris and James, all are all the original members are still straight edge. It's very difficult to find touring members, as I'm sure you know. Period. Touring members, period. You hang out with who are also straight out

you live in your area. Yeah. Who can play their instruments? Yeah. So we got two guys who are. Yeah. But I maintain that the three us still are so fuck it let's uh let's get your tat started yeah let's get going and i'll start

talking ceremony cool i mean i know we all sean michael yeah but razor look yeah i mean i like an italian yeah what's up with this metallica cat it's a dude did it and all of that fell out it's my cat's name yeah i see that all of it fell out looks great like i like do you find that tattooing Tattooing on like bicep or like solid muscle lead to problems? Um, no, because I'm a professional. We love it? I love it. I love it in the 80s.

As 80s. So ceremony. Yeah. Tell me about how ceremony started. 2003, four, five. Um, so I say 2005. Love it. Because that's when we played our first show.

Established is different than. But we recorded our demo in December of 2004. Ceremony established 2004. Yeah. So I know there's, I, Wow. So I don't feel like the band really became a band until we were able to play live. So I say 05, but I, if you say I'm wrong, I'm not going to fight you on it.

I say that you were a pioneer before you thought you pioneered. Here. Go on. So, secures, so smells so good. So. Right. What's on the demo? What's the track list? Curse, it's going to be a cold winter.

You're all the same. The Living Hell, the Bad Song, and Throwing Bricks. We actually recorded it. This is something that will interest the both of you in probably no one watching from the comfort of their couch on their YouTube app on Apple TV. Thank you to the YouTube watchers. The demo was recorded in D-tuning because J.D. and I played in a band called These Days that tuned in D, and we were just like, well, we're standard.

Yeah. D-Standard, yeah. And Alex, who was our original second guitar player, also playing these days. So all three stringsmen of these days started this band, so we're like, it'll be annoying to tune to tune back we can't fucking tune no no this

this intonation is locked in so it's in D wow yeah did you go up to standard later on then we went to as soon soon after that we went to

E flat yeah because you like you wanted we just wanted to be a little yeah it's a little different you know what I mean like you think it's an E but We're flat. But is it? And then from Roanert Park,

I know this is not the question that you asked, but it just got me, I'm in my own rabbit hole now by myself, as I am per usual, business usual locking our records. Half of Roner Park, the album, is tuned between E flat and D, and the other half is tuned between E and E flat.

Like, do you mean between meaning like... Between the notes. So like 4.40 something hurts. Because we just wanted... Just so that nobody could fucking play. We wanted it to sound distinct and really shot ourselves in the foot because now when we've had fill-ins and we have to relearn something for four. I mean, we're fucking tuning.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What do you mean 445 cents? What is that? And then from then on, it's we've been an e-standard. But we started in the D in D in 2004 and five.

Or five. Unbelievable. Four and or five. Now something that like going back to ceremony now for me, I was surprised how hard it. And I think at the time as a kid who was like, I like hate breed. Yeah. Obviously to me, ceremony is a different thing. Yeah.

There's like different genre of music. But like for sure. barely, you know? Like, you're one volume away sometimes. What's the song after curse? There's a part in it that's just like, just a hard-ass 0-1-3-4.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what? It's crazy. It's 2, 3, 5, 6, but it's in D. So it is 0-1-3-4. Ah, look at you. Impressive. I know.

Yeah. That's the connection. Yeah, yeah. It's literally four hundred years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, I've heard your Mount Rushville, you know?

Yeah. I know where you ski. You know where I... Yeah. Somewhere between Prince and Eutha today. Yeah, yeah. What was the hardest man as a youth where you were like, I think I like this too?

So I know this is very close to, uh, in the, the spectrum that is Prince and Euth of today, this is pretty much at you. youth of today, but we all worshiped negative approach, which I, I know it's, you know, obviously it's mostly fast. And people kind of associate hard in these modern times. Heavy, which are different things. Yeah, and like a lot of times, too, will kind of, they need something to be kind of slow or

half time to be hard, which I think that is obviously not how it works. If you do it right, the fast part can be the hardest part. Dude, but there are literal Morrissey songs that are hard. Of course. You know what I mean? Like that, it doesn't mean anything. Of course. Intention and presentation.

Exactly. Couldn't have set a better myself. So we were just negative approach to worship. Okay. But, you know, trying to, being of the time where, like, tempo changes were very, of that of that of that of that time you know where if you hear us now like there aren't like runner park has no tempo changes how not a breakdown i don't think on that whole record pre-production does you do on because to me i find pre-production is what is great but also like when you're programming drums on a

computer yeah you sometimes you're like i don't want to change the tempo that would be a lot when you say pre-production yeah or do you mean by myself or with the with like Collectively. Zero. That's true. We have never done any we have not demoed We did not demo anything until our second record with Mattador Until the L-shaped man so I mean the demo is a demo Yeah, most of the songs arrived another thing so by definition put that you put the L-shaped man demos out yeah to for the world to yeah Which is a cool move and that's the only thing we've ever done So you were like, we did this one time, you got it.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so no, we went in, the first time we pulled, we ever recorded those songs at all or even, because we didn't, we're not the band that writes things and sends it to each other. We're me, Jady, and myself Jady and Jake are in the room together. Cool. So no, no pre-production.

First few ceremony shows. Yeah. How quickly. Do things start moving? Is the first gig good? Yeah, because we were selling and giving away our demo at the Life Long Tragedy at Merch Table and giving it. So our demo had been out for months.

Were there any crossover between Ceremony and Lifelong Traged? That's why Ceremony was able to work because we were the only band in North Bay that didn't share any members with LifeLomb. So Sabretooth and these days, so yeah, Sabreto Zombie, these days, Hammer Time, all these bands had members of Life Long Tragedy. You ever run into MC Hammer up there? I've never seen MC Hammer in Oakland.

I heard he's like run shit. I'm sure that's true. No, Joe. I've heard he's like, yeah, no, he's legit for sure. So sick. So cool. Yeah, he's the man. out to MC Hammer.

Yeah. The MC Hammer if you're watching. Yeah. Somebody who happens. If you never heard of them, check them out. Yeah.

It's got these pants. You would be used. Yeah. The first few gigs are good. Yeah. We toured together very early on. Yeah. I think it was 2009.

Was it the Habhart Blacklisted tour? It's Habhart Blacklisted ceremony. And Letdown. And Letdown. And let down. And our band can do. Oh, eight. Yeah.

Super early on. So was that post still nothing moves you. Yep. And they were, oh my, my, white, hot. Everywhere we went. We were, it was the East Coast thing and like Detroit and stuff. Yeah. So we, yeah, so that was like a full US and we had like different regional like bands doing like chunks. We're lucky enough to have y'all on one of the chunks. So yeah, but yeah, so we were just, I mean, I love, obviously love, love everyone in lifelong, but we were just so lucky to not have any of their members because they were always going to be, like at this point, they were like touring Europe.

And like they were, they had opportunities. I saw it. Left and right. Totally. Up and down. So we weren't bound to their schedule, which allowed us to, you know, go off. Absolutely. And flourish.

Flourish. You did. So the violence violence kind of like compilation thing comes out. And then it's all these songs finally on one thing. You guys become this like full time. touring entity in the time of Dude, you look at that roster The like 2006-2007 touring band roster and it's every band that headlines every fest

Yeah, like fast now. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty wild your class. It's I mean Yeah, all of things We were lucky to be around such Inspired and good bands, but yeah, I mean like us, Haphart, blacklisted, TUI, I think was starting like, 08, 07. They killed, they killed a lot of. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cold World.

Terror was still. Terror was like, exactly. Um, y'all were not that much later. No, Harmsway was just, we started in 06, but we were very, very invest. It's all we wanted to be. Yeah, yeah. And it went to like 2011. Got it.

Yeah, yeah. Really kind of. 10. Great class. Something I want to highlight. Okay. Because in that time, it was like, if you were different in any way, ah, it was maybe not going to work, like personally,

yeah, between a lot of people. And then you guys come around and you're in drag. Yeah. Genuinely so ahead of your time. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you. Well, there were conversations.

I remember it was like, have you heard of ceremony? Oh, is that the guy who? Yeah. You know what I mean? And it was like, yeah, just like on literally, especially at that time to not be wearing fucking cargo camo shorts. Nike SBs and to be embraced. Yeah. Would that to be to be so musically and personally undeniable that all these people in in Jordans and Flatbill hats embrace you?

What went into that? When was the first time you realized that you liked having fun in that way? I mean, definitely in high school, I was, I presented myself that way all kind of throughout high school. Ceremony started in my senior year of high school. But, I mean, I was just doing what we all do. You know what I mean? I mean, you guys talk about who do you do. I was just doing who I did.

I loved Katie Pop and Prince and Suzy and AFI. and David Bowie and Mike Ness. Oh, like to me, there was precedent, Robert Smith, you know what I mean? And within like the broad punk umbrella of people who were androgynous, you know, and were glam. So to me, it didn't feel like I was taking any sort of like stand or risk. I was, the only thing I was was just honest with myself. And I understand, you know, I mean, I grew up in Northern California and I, you know, and like fans like the nerve agents in AFI who, you know, wore makeup and like, you know, covered David Bowie and wore sister the mercy shirts, um, were prevalent. So you drive 50 miles south and it's saying.

Totally. Totally. Um, and I didn't realize how sort of, uh, how much of a highlight there was on, I guess my personal. aesthetic at the time until we started touring. And I had a lot, a lot of words were said to me in a lot of places. And it was funny because a thing that happened so much then was there'd be someone, we would play a show. And then someone at the show would be like, yeah, dude, I was with my friend. And they were like, who is that?

Yeah. F word. And then they saw that it was you and then you guys got up and did that. And they were like, oh, no, like that guy's cool. and I was like, fuck you. Like, oh, I'm, now that I do something that you think that. Oh, I play guitar. Yeah, yeah.

Now, yeah, you like a thing I did for 10 seconds, so now I'm not an F, like, fuck off. Yeah, that would happen. And like, but the person telling me would always be like, but I kind of always knew you were cool. It's like, well, you're telling me this. Yeah. So I know you are. Yeah, so you're not. I mean, very, you know what?

At the time, I remember a quote. waiting into like T-S-O-L, how they would, he would dress and drag sometimes. Yeah. Just kind of do whatever and then be ass. Like, it didn't matter. Well, that brings me to the first time I met you. Yeah. I don't know what to expect, you know?

Personally, I'm just like, man, I wonder what Anthony's like. We've never talked for. Yeah. And then I'm greeted with, what's up, dude? He's like, bro. Anthony. And it was a legitimate, like, lifelong friendship. Which is, um.

Speaking of Sean Michaels, that's how a lot of people have sort of described meeting Sean Michaels for the first time because he was a kind of a small, you know, I guess the word cruiser weight wasn't really thrown around that much. I mean, he was a small, like, very, you know, he wasn't one of the big giants of professional resident. He was bigger when he was with the rockers, which is crazy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you have this, you know, Kevin Nash meeting him. He's, it was like, he's the biggest six foot guy you ever. Yeah, you know, I'm just like a bunch of different things. You know, you can't put me in a box. Oh, there's no box here. I brought it up the last time we saw each other, which was here. Yeah.

But on that tour in Detroit, while Ceremony was playing, I just wanted to document this because I don't think it was documented. It was so sick. I think the, I think your singer pulled down a projection screen that was at the front of the stage at the magic step. So it covered the front of the stage. And Anthony shirtless, long hair. playing only a guitar part, like walked around and was just like, it was just him in front of a silver screen. That's cool. And like, I remember thinking like, oh, this is a moment.

Fucking awesome. I was, you know, a lucky to do of surrounding myself with people, you know, not to get overly sincere on you. Who just supported who just supported who we were at our core? I mean, which is funny because like if you know anyone in ceremony, you know, You'd be like, everyone's like such a total freak. And I took up a lot of like visual space. So a lot kind of gets highlighted on me. But like take, even take me out, like most of the other people in ceremony

didn't aesthetically reflect, like kind of what was in vogue at the time. There's like weirdo freaks. But then left in white shirts. Yeah, yeah. But then lyrically saying like, I like, fuck God. I'm literally and I'm sidetrically.

That's objectively sick. When I look forward to, that's a Veside lyric. Like, Ceremony was singing Diaside lyrics while you were wearing a blonde wig and made it. Yeah, yeah. I wish that everybody, that time, had the eyes of the world now. Because it would just like, it sucks to me that if there was, if there was even one second where you felt like,

damn, am I? Like, am I doing the wrong thing by being myself? You know, like, just, but you've opened doors for people to do that now, to feel like themselves and for the world to embrace it and not think twice about it. And it's, it's, and again, we're piling on, piling on Anthony right now. But it's also like, it's real punk shit. Yeah. That's, that's the thing.

Because to me, this community was where you go to do that. And then, like, I love hardcore. We all do. I mean, far. I mean, come on. But I was a little,

I was confused a lot, especially in that era, how, like, um, how male bro, click, jock it was at times. I was like,

but isn't this the place where we're like, subversive and we have ideals that differ from like what we've been, sort of taught our whole lives. And I think now it's gotten it's gotten way more diverse. It's just who will kill you for saying something home of us. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I think that's beautiful. Yeah, yeah, totally. Totally. Totally. When in the in the timeline of ceremony, did you know that there was going to be like a pretty major sonic shift

that became new? Never. Never. No. I mean, every record, we never like, you know, again, we've never done any pre-production. We never talked about what we're going to do when we go in to work on a record. We were so young. Like, when our first seven-age came out, three of us were in high school when Ross had just graduated. And 2006, so it was, all of us weren't out of high school until after that tour that we did. Yeah. You were in high

Jake, our drummer graduated in 08. Oh, all of us. I see. Yeah, yeah, all of us. Yeah, so, like, we were so young and still, like, growing and involving so much as, as people that it was just, you know, if you, our sort of, if you look at the bands that you started when you were 14 and what you do now, you'd be like, wow, we just live that within ceremony. Yeah, and your, and those songs have lived with you. and people are cream in themselves.

Shout out to Ross because those, that first, the demo for 7-inch and violence violence, he was like, he had all the lyrics written for,

for those before we would, he'd like, no, that's not, like, that's not good enough for what I wrote. It's not timeless.

Yeah, it's not. Because the lyrics are timeless. So we, so it was the first band that, you know, I, we,

you know, you would start bands for like a couple weeks and, you know, play like a show and then it went you know we had a lot of bands like that that were very short-lived but not that much thought that were like fun hanging out with your friends expressing yourself so on and so forth but ceremony was the first band where i had ever had anyone say no like not that risk

your demo sticking with you throughout your discography on hurdle as a thing people want to hear is i'm sure to you the musician like you'd rather die than play curse again i've i've ended up in a place where because like like every person that's ever been in a band you think the what you've done most recently is the best thing that you know and i and i do really think that i think yeah like uh the songwriting and the performance and the production on in the spirit world now is us is us at our best. Right. But I recognize that a ceremony demo or ruined Seven-inch

is closer to the ceiling of that respective genre than what we're doing now to a new record now's respective genre. Yeah, I mean, the evolution has to be taken into account. Right. And like, I think... Have you made peace with... Yeah, no, I'm now, I'm... I'm...

And I'm so flattered and grateful that we have any music that is sort of... I'm trying not to put myself over. I'm trying to say this without putting myself over and just being sincere. Sure. But that some, that there are, that people consider timeless, you know? So I don't think of songs like sick or curse or doldrums or whatever, like the songs that we have to kind of play every night. Like, I don't, I'm not bothered by them. Okay.

I'm so grateful that we were able to write these songs that people want to hear. I'll tell you what I did before this. As I ran through the ceremony, Disgog. Disgog? Brother. Can we, can, so can we get? An honest ranking? 100%.

Yeah. I would say, Runner Park 1. Okay. It's one of the greatest opening tracks in the history of punk movie. Thank you. I mean, and this thing, I love that song.

And I don't know, the crazy thing is like, it's refreshing to hear. Yeah, I mean, it rocks. I think it's a great song. And there's not, there's, for the first two minutes, there's only one note. Yeah, that's what I like. It's like, you know what I mean?

Imagine that, though, was JN-Jin-J-J-J-J-J-J-J-J-J. That's the same mindset. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're doing connection in your own way. Okay? So, Runner Park number one. Spirit World now, number two, probably. You know, I was, for there was a brief moment where I was learning some songs

to maybe play some drums. Yeah, yeah. So I was diving in. And we were, and our friendship really bloomed from when we, recorded that to when it came out. So you, you like heard songs before they came out. So on. So I did. And it's, there was, that was a nice thing to be like, oh. Yeah. Isn't it fun? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's so fun. Um, exclusive, special. Violence, violence, probably three. Just that's, that was my, sure. I was a kid.

Yeah, that's, yeah. So, and then going back, with. It was like, even in my own discography, you like to go back and go, does this whole day? Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Were you living here when that came out? Okay. And we were at first, like, here, like, ceremony was a very California thing for the first. And when I say that, I don't mean, like, we were really being California.

I meant, like, it was kind of really only recognized in Cal, like, and I guess most fans, it's like that, like your local community. Brace you more. Like the whole state in my ceremony. Like we, you know, the, that first,

within that first year, things were happening to us that we never, like people singing our songs who we weren't friends with. Yeah. Like low bars,

you know what I mean? Like being able to play outside of Petaluma, these things were like, oh my God. And then we got booked on the hardcore fest in the mid-aughts

uh posy numbers posy numbers oh really yeah ceremony played posy numbers we played at 1130 on the last posse numbers best wow t yeah yeah gm t mm a m 11 30 a.m opened on the sunday but we were like having these really good reactions in california and um and then we go there and it's like the it's kind of the only Hardcore Fest. And no one... Nothing.

Which, of course, why would they? We only had a demo out. But that just shows you that at the event that showcases all of the young, the hardcore bands, we were still not on the radar. But in California, around the time that you... It was in North... It's in Wilkeshire. Pennsylvania.

Yeah. P-A-H-C. Where... What were you wearing? You know? I do. I was wearing... I had long...

dyed black hair and I was wearing these like really thick, chunky pinstripe pants like almost Beetlejuice S. Oh, your prom outfit? They were the bottoms to my

prom outfit. Played posy. I know we got the wife anecdotes here. Yes, yes. The bottoms to my prom. And you know Pennsylvania sometimes a red state so. Yeah, yeah. Oh, you never know. I have a real swings. I. Yeah. I was afraid at that show.

There were showgoers coming up to me. I remember this one person, I'll name drop them off camera to you too, who propositioned me in an aggressive and facetious way to have me show them my pussy during the show. during the show. Did you do it? I didn't do it. I left my pussy was, was.

The first time I'm hearing this. I think maybe I've, you know, I've told the full story. I'm a little fire right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. When you, it's such a cliche thing. This would be like, oh, it's a really different time. Yeah. But, my God.

It's not that long ago. It's really not. I mean, yeah, it was 18 years ago. So how does that make you feel about the state of punk today? I think that I'm elated. That it's people are, I mean, you know. That would be said with like so much pride now, hey. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Or there'd be some like someone getting their ass beat. Oh, they would be killed. Yeah, yeah. No, I'm so proud of where hardcore is out right now. And not just within its ideals, I mean, especially within its ideals. what is now accepted. But the genre itself is a lot more diverse. Absolutely.

You know, it's, you know, a Positomer's 05, like most of the bands sound rather similar. Yeah. Where an outbreak festival, even a Sound in Fury festival, there's a lot, like, hardcore means a lot more now than it did. Coal Boy, a never-ending game back-to-back last year was like a, was an incredible, example. Right. This year you have, was it Twitchy Tongues then high biz or is God's high biz, model actress, you know? Yeah, cold world. Cold world. Yeah, yeah. Um, that's a beautiful thing. I assume you share our viewpoint of like, whatever we consider this hardcore or punk rock or whatever. Like, it really doesn't matter the notes or the production or what you sound like.

It's all totally, you know. And I think, I think that's what connects. us being in bands and touring. Whereas the second you feel like somebody gets it, that's it. That's all that matters. Yeah. It's all I give a shit about. When ceremony goes,

da-na-na-na-na-now. I go, oh, they get it. You really felt that. I really felt that. So anyways, L-shaped man. Mm-hmm. I'm a pop boy. I know.

I love that record. Yeah. Um, still nothing's move, still nothing moves you. I'm the least familiar with Zoo. Yeah. Those are the two that the world at large are the least familiar. I see. So I'm sorry for me.

Zoo is still nothing moved. There was, it was weird because they're in between. We, like, like, we've had an odd, like one, one forward, one back, one forward, one back, sort of, like our whole sort of musical career. When did Zoo come out? You remember? 2012. When did? And I'm not trying to lump anything together, but when did Hyperview come up? 15, 16.

Was it later? That much later? Yeah, I think that and L-shaped were sort of. Maybe that's what I'm, yeah, I'm mixing the job. I really like, I was very much on board, but I was really surprised. Because, again, this is kind of before my own personal musical awakening. This guy, so I liken him to, I'm sure, I'm sure. I'm doing reruns now.

Yeah, I know. I reckon him to Michael P.S. Hayes, who, when interviewed about everything creatively in wrestling that has ever been successful, says, I didn't think it was going to work. I never said that. I never said it wasn't going to work. I was just surprised at the band who I saw people beating ass to put out records that were so sonically. Absolutely. Yeah.

No, no. I wasn't saying that's what happened. And that's, and that's, yeah. Your evolution is truly like, I think it is gradual. Definitely. If you listen and, like, look, we all as musicians, we want everyone to be paying very close attention to everything that we do, all things that we do. And it's a, that's an unfair. I realize that the expectation that we have for our audience is at times unfair.

That said, if you listen to our entire front to back chrono... Which I... Which I... Yes, did. Which I just did. It's gradual. And let me tell you, it's like a straight up, like, graph. Yeah. It is a sonic graph of growth.

And, I mean, I'm just so lucky that we could play a show where it's like people dance. People watch. People do all of the things, and everyone is letting each other do the things. do the thing to the respective genre that you're supposed to do to that respective genre at that time. And sometimes there are people who do all of it. But it's a person who grew with you. Totally. And like, and like, I mean, I'm just so, you know, thankful.

How would you make for the ceremony here? Ah. I think. Not necessarily best, just favorites. Yeah. Favorites. Spirit World. one.

The newest record should be your favorite, right? Yeah. To any artists. What's the point? Don't do it if it's not your favorite. What's the point? Probably then Elshay Man, which is the one, I mean, this won't be full of chronological,

because who wants that, who wants that information? But that would be, that would be probably second. Van Roner Park. I mean, that thing is special. Yeah. It's objectively.

I just, yeah. Is that the hit? Is that like the crowd favorite? That's the one I think that will, yeah, the other record that most people who consume our band will envision first when they think of us. I mean, dude, I mean, it fits many of our criteria when we talk about what a perfect record should be.

Like, production's crazy. The production is crazy. It's crazy. Well, so. It's huge. So, okay. So do you think we're getting really in the weeds now? No, no, this is good.

As someone who just listened to it and give it to me straight, Daddy. I will. You're daddy right now. Yes. Daddy. Is the bass mixed too high? No. Okay.

No. I thought the bass was mixed too high. And Dan Rathbun, who is a genius, he reported tragedy, fucking iron lungs, all the, all the, a lot of the prank record stuff. But he, he's a bassist, incredible bass player. And I was like, do you think the, you know, we're mixing the record together? I'm like, do you think the bass is too loud? And he was like, he did a little thing, a little ego stroke, where he was like, you know, I just think that the bass and the guitar on this record are just so exceptional

that I think it would be a shame to not, to not be showcasing them. And I'm like, what did you just do? You're right. And now when I hear it back, I'm like, the bass is so loud. I'll tell you why I don't think so is because. is because the bass frequency is so different. Sure. The bass is filling up such a different frequency that while it may be prevalent,

it's not taking away from. No, I think it is a type of punk music where a loud bass only contributes. I do remember, do you remember when people would make up lyrics to sick, different ones? No. One of my, my favorite one was... I love finding lore that I was... I know you never heard this one, and I'm going to hit you with it, and I can't wait too now. I'm already, it's already my favorite thing you've said today, and I haven't heard it yet.

Sick of Obama, sick of Aunt Jamila. Oh, my God. This was Colin. He's being of all time. Here it is. Got his ass. You'll never hear it any other way. Yeah.

What are they saying? Um, I believe you says head trauma. Not a fucking chance. That is a 100% syrup, Liz. You can't pull me. So, we're our part going to see. I'm going to break up violence, balance, and ruined here. I get that.

Yeah, right. And put the ruined 7 inch probably at 4. I feel like for what we are going for, it's like exactly what it... what it's supposed to and what just the state of hardcore at the time was was begging for

and like I'll go back you know and hear Zoo you know our first record where we sort of like officially weren't making hardcore songs anymore obviously there's a bunch of stuff on

Runner Park that like is not hardcore but most of it is like an objectively punk hardcore music zoo is the first one that isn't. And I look back, I'm like, oh, we've gotten,

we've gotten so much better at writing, like, melodic bass. It's learned, man. You know, so that one, I think it has moments, but I feel the op, I don't feel that way about the ruins,

seven minutes at all. I'm like, for that, for the thing that we were going for, it's, I would not change a thing. Okay. So I'll probably ruin there. Then probably zoo,

violence, violence. the LP that doesn't include the ruin seven because that's a thing. No, no. The CD and the digital, the Rune 7 is just on Bounce Bileance. So people think, when people think of Bounce Bounce, they think of like those songs being included and obviously they're not. And that and that has shifted the conversation about Bileance Boundance a lot. Sure.

Because streaming is, that's all the only thing. Yeah. That's all you know. Totally. Totally. And probably still nothing at the last. I think it's an interesting record. I think we needed to kind of have that moment where we're like,

okay, where do we, you know, I kind of, when you hear, whenever you've heard, like, Metallica talk about injustice, now he's listening. Yes. You know, they always talk about. Yeah, they needed. Big pop. Big pop. They needed to go to the end of the line

to realize that they needed to go somewhere else. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know, writing nine-minute songs that sound like shit. Right. You know, I get it. I get what you said. And they needed Bob Rock. They needed something that were real it in.

And like those songs were just like, they were so technical. And I feel like still nothing moves you. was our end of the line for, you know, we couldn't, I don't think like we could have got any darker. Right. So if that record needed to exist for Roner Park to happen. Absolutely.

So I think that we tried a lot of stuff on it that we never, you know, that was really, we got to be really creative, but I just don't think it's as, you know, as good as all of other stuff. It happens. It happens. We've all got one. And we have, you know, if you, and if you include the remix album, still nothing to a spiral hour now, we have seven LPs.

Wow. You know, so it's like, you should be proud. One has to be. Oh, dude, of course. Statistically, mathematically. Yeah. I like them all the same. Yeah.

They're all my children. They're all, they're all. How can you choose? It's not how that works. One sucks. Yeah. Yeah, do you have any, like, do you have a favorite tour of ceremonies ever done? So it's funny.

I was listening, this is not going to answer your question. Perfect. Oh, perfect. That's what I want. You were talking, I was listening to your episode with Jamie from Coen Orange. And, you know, I don't remember the exact context, but you guys were talking about, you know, just opportunities that you have been given. And you mentioned how Twitching Tongues hadn't gotten a support tour until 2017. We have not done like a proper support tour.

Ever? Until 2022 in terms of. Holy shit, really. Now, how can that be? We've done tours with blacklisted in half where it's like every day someone's, someone has to be somewhere. So we have the difference and guarantees is 50 to 70. Exactly. Yeah, right, right. And we did, um, I guess we did, um, I guess we did an entire, we supported Titus and Dronicus on a 48-day U.S. tour in 2012. So I guess that's, but we, are there even 48 cities in America? Check this out. It was a 44-day tour. There was a bunch of days off. On the days off, we played every day, and two of the days we played twice. So on a 40, on a 44-day U.S. tour, we played 46 shows.

That's what we did once. That's what we did. How's Europe for ceremony? There it is. Wait. There are places where we do, where it's where we do well. But it, Berlin. It took a long time.

So we headlined Sound and Fury 2007. Oh, and boy, it was like, we were like, we, it was a true, like, a moment in our sort of. I was 15. Uh-huh. It's, man. Dorable. How are you doing that? Re-skin kicking the ceremony?

No. Crass intro. I was woven ass for sure. Oh, yes. The crass intro. Oh, yeah. So, okay, so you were at that show. We had a good time.

We had a good time together, okay? We toured from there to the East Coast. You know, what, nine shows, eight shows, however many shows it takes to get there. Phoenix, Austin, Arkansas. Yeah. Yep. I'm there. Done.

Philadelphia. Flew from there to, I totally lied, by the way. We've definitely done support tours. I'm about to exemplify one right now. I lie on here all. What are we talking about? I'm making all of this. Flew from the East Coast to start our first European tour with Have Heart and Bain.

So, grit. So this is two weeks after we just have, we just headline sound of fury. Like a set of a lifetime. And like the most, like the most recognized hardcore fest in America. Yeah. First show sold out. We're like, where it was. It was at where I think it was Leipzig.

Okay. What's the place that we all have played a million times in Leipzig? Is it like the like Park District kind of place where it's like a arena? Yeah, kind of yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. No, right. That's Vienna. We played there with G.B on that tour. different story um i believe it was life's egg like okay and we take we walk on stage packed house have heart and bane fans to the to the ceiling to the rafters ass the ankles i don't know if one person knew one word to our songs and it was like oh okay we we haven't done wow and like i didn't i don't i didn't feel entitled

to a reaction or but i just figured that i was like oh because we were able to do what we did in a man we just headlined the biggest thing yeah right what's this gonna be yeah i'm sure should be good and there was like position that's amazing there were like that was also really that was like a really long tour like a 30 30 to 40 five and a half week europe those were long those were long those already 45 and a half week tour yeah yeah 30 30 30 30 to 40 days slash 5 and a half week tour and there was long there was probably there were i could probably count on one hand maybe it would bleed into two of shows where we got like a a good reaction were they in the ukk so it was funny everyone was like i know it's you guys

aren't doing that great here but trust it once you get to the uk you're going to slay yeah and it was It was like okay. Yeah, I didn't have that experience either. So it took us a long time to sort of get to get to a place where, you know, European fans were receptive to us. I dare say that it's easier, like infinitely easier at home than trying to get over in Europe. Which is the same for them trying to play here. I feel like, yeah, it's even like it's a lot harder for them.

to get over in the States. When they do, it's real lightning in a bottle kind of thing. I can name probably 10. And there's something that hardcore is like a truly American genre music, you know, where punk is, punk British is, you know, obviously is not as much. I said exactly that during our live thing in Manchester was like, you guys have ended it, but we changed it and made it in weird things, but slatter it and Barbecue sauce.

Yeah. Fuck. Yeah. I mean, jazz and hardcore are like the American genres. What we got out. You know? Hip hop? Yeah.

Oh, for sure. For sure. And I think the same can be said. I mean, how many how many rappers or hip-hop artists have gone abroad have really gotten over in the States? No, not a lot. Yeah. You know, it's a very similar. I need, I know even.

Oh, look. That's not the only one I can... He's not... He's British. He's British? Yeah, there was a big reveal that he was British, like, a couple years ago. Really? They're, like, broke the anime.

Oh, he's from, like, Alaska. No, and then there was a bunch of memes about him being like a Batman villain, and it's... Oh, yeah. It was a great day on the online. Although, there is a type of... A subgenre of hardcore that I feel like is bigger in Europe than, than here. Right? Yeah, it's anthem.

Like there are bands who do better in Europe than you hear. Oh, fuck, yeah. We are very not much that. Anthemic, sing-along, kind of, what's the band? Is it risk it? Briscuit? Risk it. It's a risk.

Yeah, no. They're fucking huge, though. That kind of shit. Absolutely. There's American bands that can tour Europe and lots. The bands we're talking about are American bands, yeah, for sure. Bowie Hungry? Bowie Hungry.

Well, we're doing what Anthony wants to do today. We're vegan today, by the way. Yes. Also. So out of respect. I got oat milk in my coffee. Me too. Kings.

What should we eat, Anthony? Yeah, I'm sorry. I would suggest that we go to Monty's Good Burger up the street. I think it in the in the Venn diagram that is myself and y'all and hard lore, it like, it real that that center section is is large. Perfect. I've been there with you before, you know? This is true.

I'll eat a vegan burger. Do you want to tell the story? Do you want to tell the story of it now or until we get to Montes? Am I, should I tell that one? Do you think that's a good full circle moment of like, yeah, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell it there. Okay.

We'll tell it there. See you at Monty's. Heather, my beloved, gorgeous queen, matriarch of the entire of the family the bailians all the family when did you start touching 19 years ago oh when you were five you know too kind what what made you want to open holy unit co-open holy year yeah um I just didn't want to work anywhere that already existed in Los Angeles I did I tried some spots and then I was like this is a work for me yeah i need my own space

wanna be your own boss yeah pretty big endeavor yes i'd say i feel like every tattooer just wants to work for themselves one or alone as they you mean you should yeah realistically i won't tell your employees that but i remember very vividly the conversations of like i think you were there you were there that's right i was like i'll put you know i'll put down what do you need you know that's right he did i said i still direct quote so yeah i said Grandma's going to die someday. I'll find out where it's going on. I'll give it to you.

Don't worry about it. She did die. Yeah. Go to me. Of course. So, you know, I just wanted to say how proud of you, I was a dream, you know? And now it's very, very, how long are you open? Because I was, I'm new.

I'm new to this friend group. This is new for, welcome. Yeah, welcome. Very new. When did you open? Well, we signed the lease in January of 2020. Yeah. Yeah, we did.

So that was scary. It was. But then ultimately we're like, who cares? Yeah. Let's do it. Let's go. Because it's still like isolating in a tattoo shop. Yeah.

Pretty easy. Pretty reasonable. Right? Yeah. Mask up. Mask up. Yeah. The tables are six feet apart.

Yeah. Absolutely. Sanitary. Salvo sanitary. What's your idea? What's your Mount Rushmore or tat music? Tat shop music. Ooh.

Because to me, like I, There's a couple things where I'm like, I mean, Tat shop metal as a genre is maybe the worst. It's real. Yeah. Yeah. Like, it's, what is it?

It's like. Define tat shop metal to me. I mean, it's like pentagram. Oh, okay. See,

I like. I mean, I do too. I'll say, but you're right. Later, Metallica is tat. Tat shop. I love it.

Paranthases. I mean, it's all pentagram in all of that. World. Absolutely. I mean, that's really all does. And then, like, Lucero. Lucero is post-Tat Shop metal.

Yeah. It's like, yeah. Dude, I think, like, five-finger death punch. No, none at all. That's a different, I mean, that's a, I don't know what Tats Chop's you're at. That's 24-hour walk-in Tats-Shop. That's what I'm saying. That's what comes to mind when I think.

So a prestigious Tats-Shod metal would be like a Kinnigand, a Lucero. You buy a big hat? after being real into hardcore, you know? Yeah, yeah. Game over. I think, so I'm thinking of the two, like, hardcore run places in Chicago. It's a lot of, like, a lot of just punk. Mm-hmm.

To be like, we're, we know this game. What's your idea of Mount Rushmore Tatshop playlist? I mean, Danzig, number one. 100%. Come on. It is kind of insane how much music makes a difference. It's huge. I have stopped playing more, like, aggressive stuff because I find people don't sit as well.

Absolutely. It's like I want to listen to dissection. Absolutely. My client probably doesn't while I'm, you know, I mean, you know. You know. You know. What has she done on you? She did my neck.

That was the first? Yeah, we're going to do something real big. Gotcha. Gotcha. I might promise her that appendage. Maybe bottom ass. Yeah, right. You know?

Yeah. What do you mean? Yeah. Okay, you said, yeah, right. You got bottom ass now. All right. On, Tam. Do you have any hard vetoes that come on music-wise?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I'd love to hear a couple. I, yeah. Like, you know, maybe not a personal. Like, like, like a one.

Like somebody that's not watching them. For example, mine would be an Aerosmith's song. Skip, skip. Just a song. Any veto. Or a band in general is fine, but I'm saying like if a playlist comes on and Spotify gets a little wily. And for some reason, loving an elevator comes on. You're like absolutely not.

Bow and bow out of a tant to show. Yeah. I mean, Lucero is. Absolutely not. I'm sorry, ACDC. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with it. It's okay. We've spoken.

Yeah. It's, I have reasons why I do not love the ACDC. Sure. And, you know, they're valid. 100%. Should I? It's all subjective. Sure. I mean, this is your top. The vocals. We cannot. And then they found the guy that sounded exactly like the last guy. Can you live that? How is there two guys that sound like that? Yeah. Wild. John Scott died. It's a little dark. What do we got? He fell asleep in the car. He was probably really drunk, but he was like, I shouldn't. drive home i'm gonna stay parked but i'll sleep like that it's fixated how we die wow it's fucking crazy that's a fucked up way that is a fucked up way he did the right thing who knew he didn't

drive down did the right thing now um the guitar tone the dryness i'm a reverb kind of lady you know what you know what oh just let me swim let me float absolutely zero it's like Like just desert. Let me ask you this, something we ask every musician we talk to. Who they do. Oh, musician. Yes. Ooh.

Am I the first? Yeah. You are. Easily the first. It's a family affair. Okay. Who do you do? Family affair.

There it is. Sly. Now, who do you do, meaning who's my line? You saw a tattoo, like three or four where you saw that you were like, damn. So I do Hetfield and I do Porcel from Utah today. That's who I do on stage. I do Anzaldo and Bailey Enzaldo.

Hair-wise. Yeah. We do have good hair as a couple. I got it. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you. I said the most gorgeous couple in history of marriages.

I wasn't going slow. It's not hyperbole. I love me some Tim Lehigh. I mean. That's church. As a human and, you know, a tattooer, artist. Friend of the show, technically, Tim Leigh. He did the dragon.

That's right. And he got to say, LP. I mean, his, like, looseness, his movement, it's just, like, it made me feel okay to be, like, loose. Yeah. And, like, I don't know, it's, he's able to just do so much. It's crazy. I love Matt Shama. No one really knows about Matt Schama.

And maybe he's a tattooer's tattooer. Yeah, he's the ringworm. He's the ringworm of tattoos. Wow. Oh, hell yeah, ringworm. It's all one thing. Mad Shama's fantastic. This whole sleeve is Mad Shama.

This Iron Maiden is Matt Shama. I mean, he's, come on. I mean, Dan Higgs, of course. Sure. Come on. Yeah. What are some trends happening in the tattoo world? that you don't really like.

There's so much I don't want. Well, that's got to be most of it, right? Correct. Look at an athlete, and I can tell you, they're doing all the things. Correct. Do you have to, is it like, do you become an athlete because you have shirt,

or do you get serious out of these? I think it's the latter. Classic chicken egg. Yeah, class. Yeah. When will we know? I mean, trends in tattooing have always kind of been a thing, but it's also kind of weird

because it's such a permanent art form that like what how is there trends because they're ever changing i mean the new stuff right now is super foreign to me like the little scribbly little everyone wants little things like yeah the little just like yeah really they they almost want it to look really bad yeah like that's the whole deal and i just maybe i'm just an old woman and i don't understand she's 24 years old right double that Do you find, I was just talking about this with Sean on the way over here, that the second I, like, decided I don't care about tattoos and, like, I don't need everyone to have a meeting.

I just wanted to look at a little. Oh, dude, looking dope. The second I, like, realized that, it became so fun. Yeah. Do you, do you agree with that? Yeah. I mean, you can't take it too serious. No, we just got a Sean Michaels.

Yeah. People are like, what are your tattoos mean? I'm like, I don't know. It's just stuff I like. Like a fucking. It's band stuff. skeleton i like it yeah yeah exactly let me ask you something do you have a favorite ceremony son do you have a least favorite ceremony i let's let's let's let's let's let's let's let's he is

generally interested in yeah i am i really love doldrums a lot it is so like creepy good wife a real one g-dub good wife vibes yeah yeah i'm getting jeepov yeah i came in later right i came in when right when you were writing L-shaped man yeah when we were writing L-shape man and you were a gothic rocking artist you know so when he was like doing the demos and like playing stuff for me I was like this is so cool this is like right up my alley is like for gothic this is like gothic rocking art yeah so I was like hell yeah because I I never like really saw ceremony it was like in a different world because like the bay is it's small but there's so many different pockets of like

hardcore sure so i just didn't like run with that crowd is that where you're from shoot no i'm from san diego but i lived in the bay for like 13 years yeah so you know i came in at the more post-punk era of ceremony and you two met here the bay you met in the bay okay that makes it's berkeley yeah it's berkeley oh this is the one telegrams And Ashby. Is it the one by Gilman? The one, no. Okay.

That one is rather new. The OG one is special to me. Telegraph and Ashby, the second Whole Foods ever in California. Really? 1990. It opened. Dude, that Whole Foods and then fills across the street were heaven. Oh, yeah.

That's for years. Yeah. Heather. This was so lovely. It was so lovely. I'm so loud. I'm so lovely. I'm so lovely.

Guys, you got to come here. Holy meeting. It's beautiful. Sean, did you get the. Look at that. That's good shit. You don't want to get tattooed next to that? You're crazy. We're going to go to Monty's on the fucking stuff.

I'm starving. How about you go first, and I'll just say, meet you. Hey, bud. How's it going? How are you? Thanks for having this. Yeah, of course. I would love a double, please.

As is. I'll do the same. Cool, a double. And how do you feel about the chicken sandwich? Pretty good. Before? I've had it before. Pretty good.

Vegan, pickles. It's a dipping sauce. I'll do it. It's really good. Can I do the Nashville hot? Yeah, of course. It's a dry road. It's pretty delicious.

This still have a, like a sauce on it of sorts? It's a, it's a, it's also gonna be on the side. Oh, yeah. Mmm. And by the way, that we still play your meat to try and rice cream and stuff like that, you know? Sure. We have like a buffalo salt, honey mustard,

up and arrow as well. Can I do the, I'll do a ranch. Right. That's a little, chicken and actually the branch? Anything else? Yeah, can I have a double? No. And instead of the spread, could I catch up please? To the spray, cut up? Please. And then I'd love to try the chicken tenders with buffalo sauce. Hmm. Are you beverages? One sparking strawberry. Yeah. Any other figures? I can't. Can't drink a calorie. I'll eat them all. He does it every day.

but yeah never never have so three wire you start with lemonade all right you guys are all that's it thanks buddy your best thank you so much front cam busted i know just fucking just what is worse sb dude yeah hey here's what you look like yeah how long have you been vegan 19 years 2004 are you like uh were you at one point you know you mentioned something earlier how like as a straight-edge person you kind of go through face where like when I was younger in high school I was a prick. I was like the worst straight-edged

kid. I was very judgmental, very mean. But all of us were all there was like a little group of like 15-20 years and then you grow up and you kind of chill out. Were you ever like, or are you still animal liberation front kind of guy? Are you just? I think that's, are you vegan for the animal? That's sort of the difference I think between veganism and straight-edge. is like yeah, I don't, if someone is drunk over there and I have nothing to do with them and they're not around me at all, I'm not dealing with them at all, obviously, by design. Right. With veganism, it's like, well, of course I would like there to be less animals that die for food consumption. But I don't, no, I mean, I don't pick. I don't, I don't fight with anybody.

I think you and I, you and I being close good friends, yeah, right, maybe the proof is, that is the pudding of which the proof is made. Totally. And ultimately, I just want, I want there to be more options for people, like plant-based eating needs to be more normalized for all, for all diets, you know? How often do you eat like a fast food alternative? Very rarely. Yeah, right, yeah. Which is, I think that's, that's the trap. that people might fall into.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's also a good gateway, you know, I mean, Burger King and Jack in the Box having vegan options. A brings, you know, makes vegans who are just, just became vegan a little, it ease them into it a little, a little better than it. You know, I was, I felt like I was dropped in the middle of the ocean when I became vegan. Oh, 100%. I mean, dude, I are, remember the first wave of like vegan fast food that you guys had to deal with and just be like I swear that it's good.

Boca burgers. Oh, my God. Where I don't want to eat, you know, I personally don't want to eat the jack in the box vegan burger. Or what, like I'm just using that. I don't even know if they have one. How do you feel about like the McVegan? Again, great, great for those people who are making the transition. And if something is easier,

it will happen more. That's what Carl from Earthrexia said. That's in the same thing. Because some people get a little caught up in the... Assumption under capitalism. Exactly. Like that aspect. Totally.

And I don't think... I think that is true, but I do think that two opposing truths can both still reach a thing. Right. And it's never going to happen overnight. The changes are never... It's just not going to be... Totally.

And now there's an option for someone who... who eat, who does eat meat, but they just don't, most people I know who eat meat don't eat meat every meal, you know what I mean? And that's becoming less and less normal. I would say if, if like protein intake weren't a disordered thought in my brain. Right. I would, it would be way more rare. Of course. I'd be eating fucking vodka sauce pasta. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so, I do feel it important for the greater, for society to be more plant food conscious, where, I mean, I guess I could say that I think it would be better for the greater good of society for people to drink less too. But that's different.

That doesn't have so many, there are so many variables that make, that I feel that make veganism important. that just are absent within sobriety and straight edge. People don't need to drink to survive. People, especially have lower economic status, need to eat in order to survive. Well, and no, there's there are, and on the flip, there are no animals, like nothing died to get that beer in your hand. Right.

So, so yeah, on like both ends of the spectrum, that is true. And like, we talk about McDonald's all the time. We love it. But scientifically, if you break it down, it is like, it can be an inexpensive calorie-dense thing to eat when you don't have time or resources to eat something else. So a place like that, having an inexpensive calorie-dense vegan option is for the sake of progress. Of course. It's a very good point. Yeah, it's a gateway and, you know, an option and another option for someone.

who does eat. Touring bands. Totally. Oh, dude. Totally. You guys had, you guys were starving. You had Taco Bell.

Man, so it's funny. I knew going into this pod that we'd get into this discussion. And I was like, how do I want to approach this? Because of what I think, what makes hard lore what it is, is that you have been able to make this type of consumption fun. I love, there's a lot of podcasts by people who I love who do a great

job but I think it's so evident to why you to have garnered so much success in such a short amount of time because this is listening to an episode of hard lore is a fun thing to do good and that's it's clearly what you want that's clearly the objective and that it clearly

works and that's that's what makes you stand out oh here we go Oh, wow. It's timing. Bring it in, brother. Is this for me? This looks like it's for me.

I think that's for you. Oh. So, Anthony, you're flying, the ceremony's on tour, or Colke's on tour with Depeche mode, which just happened.

Crazy. You fucking hear that? This man just tour with Depeche mode, and we haven't talked about it one time. We'll get it to that. We're going chronological. We'll get it. That's what we do.

Yeah, yeah. You're flying down the highway. Let's say it's, I don't want to put a year to it because I want you to have every option. Ceremonies on tour in the United States. Yep. You're about, there's a magical exit time with all the places in the world and the country on it. You can stop anywhere. It doesn't matter.

What's the place on the sign where ceremony unanimously is like exit the freeway? We got to eat. I need to go. soon. Thank you. This looks good. So if we're living in fast food land, we are. We are. Yeah. In these modern times, in these trying times, that simply, it just doesn't happen anymore. Sure. We're, uh, um, we're go to the grocery store before we leave the, before we leave the city. Really? Group. Do you have time for that? Uh, not always. You make time. Yeah. We've Yeah, we make the time.

But in the, in our, in our earlier, in our younger days, 10 times out of 10, that stuff is Taco Bell. It has to be, right? It has to be. It's all you had for so long. We were Taco Bell psychopaths to the point now where it's hard for me to eat half of a burrito. Really? Because it's just, I associate it so much with the boys.

Whipping in with being malnourished and anxiety and and yeah like right But we were so we could like we were the we were the kind of people The money shop Look at that come we were the consumers where it's like the okay so the tackle bell on the other side of run up park the beans are a little more dehydrated and we we we we we we we We knew every, we knew every pro and con of every Taco Bell in our vicinity. Right. And of course, I mean, vegans can eat there.

Everyone. And it's just a, it's such a California. It is. It feels like, even though it's everywhere. It's everywhere, but it's like, it's like we were, we just grew up. I don't eat it ever. No. I only ate it on tour.

And I think that that is at least saved it for me a little bit. Yeah. Because it's because I do like it. Brother, do I eat it at home? Do you really? Oh, my God. What's your? I've never, I've recently, there's something I've been doing on edit days.

All DoorDash, two large Baja Blas. Costs me about $14. It's a cycle, but I got, I need something to get me through that. A need, oh, you know? Yeah. Listening to below. I'm going to give you this. Thank you.

Oh, perfect. Put it in there. All right, let's try this burger. Will it, all tendee? All 10. All 10. Mm. Ranch blessing.

How's the vegan ranch? Pretty good. Pretty good. He's very particular about this ranch. You're a ranchman? He's a ranch. I'm a regular cowboy. He's fucking Yellowstone.

I'm Kevin. You're Kevin Godham, Kossner. I'm the opposite progress. Like, at this point, there can, there's really no excuse that I've ever any fry. should be not vegan. I agree. You know? Can you tell your story or do you not want to?

Oh, no, I'll put your show off. Most of all, thanks for having us and for the meal. The first time I came here was with Anthony and a man who needs no introduction. His name is Dave Havik. He's right there. You know, lifelong fan. So it was just nice to

to, I think it was my second or third time hanging out with the two of you together. Invited me to have some burgers. Oh, this was after the Haunted Hayride. Right. I went to the Haught Hayride first, which was... Great time. Terrifying.

Went to Monty's after, and somebody who, like, an owner or the co-owner, somebody, one of the, like, higher-up people. I think it may have just been someone, just a classic, team member who knew that of his closeness with the owners. I think I have to do a full body.

Yes, yes, sorry, sorry. A body representation of the moment. So let's say the table was Dave, Anthony, or Colin Anthony. And the T-shirt representative came over to the table and said, did you want a shirt, Dave? in a way that was like, not you, not you shirt for either of you. Dave, I got to get you this shirt. And bless Dave, Dave was like, like, ah, you know, like, you guys want, you know,

like very immediately inclusive. That was my one real Matthews experience. I also walked here to the other one. The K-Town one from Glendale once. time. That was crazy. You were and the folks at home don't me of course why would they know this but that year you purposely do not use a vehicle. They were walking you were you would walk 20 mile round trip for for a stick of gum. Oh my mom. Oh a lot of time I would be like hey what are you

doing, I'm going to maybe go get a donut in like two hours. Yeah, which meant I'm leaving now. I'm leaving now. See you in two hours. And your response was either, dude, I'm there. Or I just put a pot of lentils on. I can't make it. And that's how I know that the vegan fast food thing is not at every night.

Because you're a pot of lentils. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can't make it. Kinoa's on. Yeah. Yeah. That combo is one of, if, because a lot of times if I'm cooking for both Heather and myself, I'm like, you know, I need to dress it up a little more. But my, if my go-to meal, if I'm just cooking for myself and I'm only have to worry about me, quinoa, red lentils, little brags, little turmeric.

Really? Done. This moment that I'm referring to was five years ago. And I remembered your exact home order. This is, you could, you can confirm that I had not, that I had not changed in the last five years. Real. Because it was verbatim.

When was Cold Cave? Enter the picture for Anthony. I started touring with Cold Cave in February of 2019. Oh. Do you know Chaz? Of course. Fireboy. Yeah. He's a good friend of mine. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, he was touring with them too. Hi, Chan.

Yeah. So, Chaz, he was on that tour. Right. They were on that tour. I remember my... Great, great human. Lovely guy. Sounds awesome. You love him. Lovely person. Yeah, they were doing merch for us on that tour. The tour prior, Cold, choir boy was supporting. Right. They got along. And so we, the first time in the cold cave van I was with it was also jazz this first time so we so we bonded um I love that

yeah so about I mean you know obviously a year and a half two years of that was was dormant but yes it's 2019 it's um my offer still stands by the way you I you're you're you're always rolling around this noggin and you're

You're in many compartments. I own a lot of black clothes, you know? What was the offer? I'll play drums for Colquid. I have so many black clothes. At one time, didn't London May play? No, London May played guitar, right? He played drums for a tour.

Like, I've in 2011. I could guarantee you, I got more black clothes in him, probably. Than London May. Now? I would see, yeah. You have a lot going for you, my friend. Let me tell you that. Some of you.

You kidding me? Sexy, man. But yeah, so join that. You know what? I like this more than the burger. The chicken? Really good. When the chicken sandwich dropped, I did not.

That was my order and only my order for like a year. I'm 11. I had to like stop. Careful. I'm liking this. I'm enjoying this. Bada, da, da, da. McDonald's reference.

Man, there's one, the bit that we've done a couple times in this episode. Uh-huh. I completely stole from Anthony. The I'm daddy thing and like, I've used that. I'm, I'm. And that's Anthony. I have no, I, I take no ownership. What's mine is, what's mine is everybody.

What do you take it or not? Yeah, yeah, irrelevant. I credit the arts. You're like, I, I, I take no. You know? I appreciate that. Of course. And right now, you are daddy.

You're giving daddy. It's giving. It's giving daddy. And what's... What? I don't know. Have you gotten to write material with Coke? Yeah, so the EP or LP that you...

It's an, it's an, it's an ambiguous... format. Yeah. It's a seven-song 12-inch. And there are certain, but certain publications have put it as a full, I mean, I think it's literally an LP, but is it a, but whether it's in the full-length album or EP status. I think that the LP-E-P determination is in the intention. Totally.

Is it written as an LP? I don't, I think that. That has not been disclosed. I think that's where the, you know. Yes. So there's a- I think it's intentional. So there's,

I don't know. I mean, I don't want to project onto, onto, you know, West's, like, thought process.

I mean, it should be said that it's, Cold Cave is very much West, is West's project. Yeah. He's dad. He's daddy. And Wes is dad.

Yes. But on that release, Fate and Seven Lessons, I am on four of the tunes. And each song that I'm on, my role was a bit different. One song is kind of like a proper co-write. And then like one, West was like, hey, I have this song, I just want a guitar solo right here.

And then there's a song that was written. He's like, okay, just play guitar. Like the core progressions were there and just play guitar throughout it. So it was really, it was a really fun experience because I never knew what I was going to have to do. And then there were three songs I had, I'm not, are purely electronic and, and wested on his own. So you're a Sean Martin now. In, in, in, in, in, in, and always, I am Sean Martin. That's right.

That's all, all, all roads. All rows truly lead to Sean Martin. Yeah. But yeah, we then, so we did that initial tour with adult and vows, got home, did a six-day full U.S. tour with ministry. Oh, how was that? It was awesome. I mean, I am an early ministries super fan. I mean, I love ministry.

I'm not trying to say not a not. I'm not a mid-to-late period. fan but um the rapin honey and mine and solom like those those three records i mean and of course with sympathy but like i feel like you know that's a different it's a different that's a different that's a different band yeah twitch rocks too did they have any of the uh twitch is awesome yeah did they have the um the fence up at all did they know they know they started doing that again kind of on a tour not long after that okay this was a a wow It was for the wax tracks documentary.

So it was only in like the six major, major markets, as they say. And it was meant to be, it's obviously a fly tour, but we did not do that. Oh, no. Yeah, so we drove. So Brooklyn to Toronto. Oh, day off. Austin, Texas. Oh my God. That was all done

and then Austin to home. In all of that, we lied down one time in a hotel.

This is what the this is what art is all about. This is what makes you appreciate the things. This is what makes you hard more certified. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Holy shit. That's right. What is, what is, what is including to Toronto.

Hunter? That's like the smallest portion of that. Yeah. Yeah. So that's that was like 2 a.m. I think we got in at like 6 p.m. Oh,

4 p.m. Like, like we made sound check, you know, but it was like, but we drove straight from, we're here, might as well,

load in. Straight from Toronto to Austin after the show. So didn't, didn't sleep that night, drove a two days to Austin got there in the middle of the night. So we slept

the night before Austin and then right after Austin drove to LA. Yeah. But we knew it was going to be, obviously we knew it was even brutal. But it was such a short amount of time. True. That was like, okay, well, let's just have like

a rough nine days. Rough week, yeah. Who cares? You know, it'll be over in a flash. And it was so fun. Did it end at home? It ended home. That never happens.

Yeah, so. Yeah, not for you guys. Yeah. I drive, driven from Chicago and Connecticut more times than I've done. For some reason, things end to Chicago all the time. It's the middle. It's the middle. It's like not that bad for anyone, but it's really bad for everyone.

Yeah. Yeah, unless you live in Chicago. A few months later, maybe a year or later, you're torn with Depeche Mode. So then we get home from that. And then West gets the songs together for, for fate. record those, that comes out during pandemic times. Yeah. Then we do a few Cheris of Light Years anniversary shows on LA, one in New York.

10 year anniversary of and then, you know, a couple one-offs, but then yeah, we have been a year, probably a year later. It's probably really hard for you folks on your couch with your YouTube app and Apple TV to follow this timeline. I apologize. We going towards a fish time. Tell me about that. How long was it through? It was six shows, two weeks.

Oh, right. They're on a bus. They're on. Are they fly? Yeah, I don't know if. They're on two planes and two buses. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, they're on some transport, transporter.

You know what I mean? They're like night on two days. Yeah, yeah, Jetson's vibe. It was the best thing. thing ever. Like what happened, right? It was just the best. I can't imagine how that felt. Yeah, I mean, they're probably my favorite band, Depeche Mode. So just that alone. They played blasphemous rumors. They did not play blasphemous rumors, but they did play, um, they played a lot you want to hear. They play stripped. They know? They, yeah,

they're, but you know, they've, they've never been a nostalgia. Right. And, like, every, Every record's good. They only tour when they have a record out, and you're getting four to five songs off every record. And if you're not into that record, Dave Gahan is going to make you love that record by the end of that show, because he has the weight of the world on his shoulder. How do you craft a ceremony set list with seven LPs out? Of varying genres.

Yeah, it's, you have to commit to. a certain feel for a few blocks, for a few numbers. And then you have to kind of ease out of it into something else. Or you know, sometimes we'll make the conscious decision to hard stop it from a, from like a really down tempo subdued song into something really abrasive. But it's actually it's pretty easy because there's not a lot we don't really play anything on still nothing moves you And then the the the ruin violence violence stuff is is There's not a lot of that and usually that's at the end. So it's it's not

It'd be a lot trickier if we were like felt like we had to play something a few things off every album But you just like like with anything you know like with with with with with with with with make a love. You know what I mean? You don't just go. It's a 30 second set and you go to bed. And Colin doesn't talk about it. Yeah. Collins approved. He doesn't talk about the set. What did I say the one time that you love? I'm not horny. Wow. That's that's what that's my favorite.

Yeah. Uh, calling on, calling on quote all the fact. We are not horny. Yeah. I feel, you know, we don't, we won't go from an L.J. A man song into a violence violence song into, you know, a runner park song into a synth song. So they're in blocks. Yeah, you kind of, yeah. And not even so much in eras as so much in just sort of like intention. Intention is everything. Yeah.

Why is so much more important than what? Let me ask you. I'm going to set of better myself. Let me ask you something. I probably could have. I'm asking. Hit me. Before you, you know.

Make me cry again. Let me ask something. You were spin-kick? Has Anthony... I'm... I don't know if I've... I have not... Spunk-cooked.

Yeah, that's... I have done adjacent... Adjacent movements. Adjacent maneuvers. Tell me about a maneuver that's adjacent to spin. Well... Like a sweet-chin music? Like, uh...

Yeah, maybe I've never spig kicked, no. Could you? I think you could. My pants? I don't know. I don't know if my pants. If my bottom attire would allow

for spin kicking. I would have there would not be a thread, a crumb of thread left if I spin kicking those. What's the name of that The Cure album? Dissegregation.

That's about me, spin-kicking. In my pants. Jeez. We got one. Sorry. That's what this integration is about. That's what the best record ever is about. Me, spin-kicking.

Yeah. The actual title track, integration. It's the best song. It is the best song and they played it. Period. Best song. That's not a wrong. thing to say. That disintegration is the best song. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. The best song on the best

record. Agreed. Who do you do anything? We know the fucking answer to this, but come on. So live, yeah. I feel like live and recorded are different. Especially for, especially for kind of what live, like what we do, you know, um, like I feel like if you watch this live with the volume down or, or maybe me, we're talking about me. So I'm, yeah, this is about anything. You may, maybe, maybe, you wouldn't think that we're playing the genre of music or the genres that we play. I don't know. But why it's so cool.

I think, you know, my, like the way I approach guitar and hold a guitar is very prince. That was, that, he informed me on the guitar as an instrument. So live, I feel, I feel. That's kind of, I feel so, because he's the greatest. Yeah, well, so I'm doing print. It's like, well, I mean, you know what I mean? We're all trying.

We're all trying, doing an attempt and that's, the attempt is what makes a unique. I've lifted a lot of moves from Prince. I've lifted more moves from Prince than any, than anybody else. That's a good one. What's your favorite on stage move? Well, yeah, absolutely. Spin kick.

I only spin kick on stage. Oh, you meant in the pit. Yeah. Oh yeah. No, on stage, five, five spin kicks a track for me. That's what I thought. Do you play only boss pedals because Prince did? I play mostly boss pedals, but I was just gifted a bunch of deadbeat pedals, which I really like.

So I've been playing with those live lately. On record, I'm doing Rick Agnew from Christian Dead. than adolescents and Greg Ginn and... I saw Greg Ginn once at Handelbar in Chicago, the vegan place. He was during a Rye Fest and he was playing with Off at the time. And I got up, me and my friend were leaving and I looked and I was like, oh, I... Greg Gain was playing in Off? Yeah.

Are we sure? Yeah, 100%. Or Off was playing and he was doing a Greg Ginn solo. Okay. What's something like that? Okay. So not 100%. So not 100%.

Yeah. So I, like, looked and I was like, oh, I know that guy. And he was like, he did that to me. There's a person with tattoos. I know exactly what's about to happen. Please leave me alone. I just, never mind. Yizert.

Blackfire was playing next door to his ceremony recently. And we were, like, loading out at the same time. And he was like smoking a cigarette while we were, and I just didn't have. Did he hear you? Smoking a cigarette while we were loading it. The old man. Yeah. you guys play

um i you know i do i do johnny ramone i'm a big down you got a you got a downstroke in the in the world that sick is all downstroke yeah if if it's one upstroke you played it wrong that's right downstroke and son that's right that's right

wow he'll break that and fucking thing in half right he'll break that guitar he made with his bare hand is old yeah he'll get another $645. At the time one, Rick's, you know, it's insured. Downstroking. Johnny. More or less.

Yeah. Absolutely. And then, like, Greg and Rick had, like, a really interesting and creative approach to playing punk that was, like, dark, but still melodic, but violent, you know? That was, like, that really influenced, like, the, kind of through Runner Park and then Johnny Marr and Robert Smith. Like, I've wholesale, almost whole, I've almost wholesaled both of them quite a few times.

Yeah. Tell me about Anthony. Oh. Anthony is my solo project. I'm recording a record right now. It's, I'm finally, I feel like I'm at the place where my vision, my vision and my abilities are on the same level.

What a scale that can be. So I'm- George Rukas. Yeah, yeah. So I'm really excited about what, everything I've done now, up until now, is not a good, is not a very good representation of what I envisioned the project to ultimately be. But it's, I'm really, I'm really, I'm very, really excited. I'm really hopeful that it comes out. I love the one that I've heard. I'll

tell you that. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I did a over the pandemic I released a Prince covers album. I did the album Dirty Mine front to back. Really? I recorded the vocals with your lovely brother, Taylor. And I think that is more representative of what where the project is is going. And it's funny. And it's funny. every time I've tried to like explain what it's like, you know, it's like, you know, post-punk, but kind of like art rock, you know, and like advent pop, but there's like some R&B and I'm like, it just sounds like a guy that really likes David Bowie and Prince. I think that's what it is.

I think that's what's the guitar player of Sarah Louie covering Prince. Wow. That's what it is. But also all of those other things. Yeah, can you do the bio? Yeah, yeah. Can you do the bio? Picture this.

Yeah. Anthony Zoldo. Yeah. Let me ask you some. Playing music. Some people. It is your birthday. We hit each other that way.

So yeah, I just played my first show post-pendemic at Genghis Cohen a few weeks ago. What a place, huh? What a place for a... What a place for a... To attend a live... Some live music. I mean, the food.

The restaurants are nice fun? The Queens Tofu. The Queen's tofu. The Queen's tofu. The place is unbelievable. Yeah. It looks incredible. So there's a game that you wanted to show us.

And I think that Beau should be the recipient of the game. So the game, I... On the drive to juice, we were talking about... a mutual friend of ours who will remain nameless, I suppose. But they lost all their contacts in their phone. So I called them the other day. And it wasn't until like a minute in where they were like, hey, I don't know who this is because I've lost all my contact.

So I just saw the number. And I was so impressed by that they answered an unknown number. Obviously for it being, who is, have you heard of anyone doing that in the year of our Lord 2020? So this reminded me of a game that we used to play in the Ceremony Van, where someone would take out their phone and you'd go to your contacts and you'd scroll. And then you would blindly select the contact. You would then show the contact to the rest of the van and wait for their green light to ensure that the contact you should ensure that the contact you select. Was not like a family member that you've had a following out with or you know so it would also

Have to be someone that they sort of knew we both know so like if you're about to call someone that we didn't know It'd be you know does the be still purpose. Yeah, so we'd give the green light then you would click call and you would Blindly call a random contact in your phone and the game is you trying to figure out who you're on the phone with So the tricky part about this game now is that it's almost a faux-poa to call someone. So a non-pick-up is rather commonplace. I like it, Sean. How stressful was it? A little bit, but then I saw it was Nick and it's...

Of course. Hey, how are you? I'm doing great. Are you? I'm doing so, so good. What are you up to? Kat, I just want to tell you something. I just won a game where I had to call someone randomly

I didn't see who it was and I had to figure out who they were. Kat, you're live on hard lore right now. You're live on hard Lord. Hi, Kat. Anthony says hi, Collins says hi. He figured it out in record time. Record time. So thank you for me.

So that's a best case scenario. Yeah. Thank you for being a champion cat. You were so welcome. That makes sense. Wow. So thank you. Continue to do so.

You're so welcome. I think I deserve a prize. You do. Okay. We'll figure something else. I'll send you money. Thank you, Kat. Have a good night, Barbie.

Okay. Bye, Barbie. That is too close. That was perfect. Okay. That was best case. That's best case scenario. She has a very distinct.

She said 17. I was like, I have, in playing the game, there are people that I've landed on multiple times. No way. So there are people in this world that walk through their life thinking, there's a time when

Anthony was just calling me all the time for some reason Do you want to play the game? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. Yes. Well, think about what I told you earlier in the problem. I mean, yeah, if you land on someone and I don't know who they are or, you know, you also part of the game is...

I got to trust you. It's a trust fall. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, ready? Yeah. You're going to scroll? Yeah, I'll do. Okay, stop.

Or go the other way. And hit it. Oh, let me see. I don't know who that is. No. Okay, we're gonna do it again. This is fine. Again, if it's the one that I think and hope it is,

it would be awesome, but I don't think it is. If we don't know, I'm kind of like, okay, go down. Scroll down. Yeah, I keep further. Faster, son. And there you go. A lot of content. There's just no way.

You are, however, you were by someone. Sorry, do we cheat the game and just, and just click? Well, so he did Yeah Yeah, yeah Do that It's adjacent It's near

It's near where you landed on And we're gonna try it Okay So I've picked one now Now this is cheating But For the sake of good television Hey, what's up?

What's that? How's it going? Good, how are you? I'm just biving, dude I'm out to dinner with Beau and Anthony from ceremony sick all good people what are you doing

I'm eating up some Indian food from where a little spot called DESE spice where is that what city is that in Atlanta Georgia wow so is this

foundation reunion show really happening champ is it happening is not okay champ I'm just going to tell you what I just did you are live on hardball right now Oh, goodness, great.

We were playing a little game where we had to scroll through our contacts and call someone live. They picked you for me. Oh, that's all honor. And you were the example I used for both. This is random. I said, Bo didn't understand the terms of the game. And I said, let's say you landed on Champ Hammett. You would try to figure out if you were talking to Champ Hammett.

And by God, did I just figure it out. Hi, champ. Hi, champ. Hi, man. Hi, guys. I hope you have the best day. Enjoy your Indian food. Foundation Mount Rushmore Straight Edge.

What's up? I appreciate the call. I have you guys have a great time this weekend. Thanks, man. We love you so much. Love you guys, too. Have a great day. Bye.

We're good at this game. That was good, right? Where is that? What city is that? Perfect. And then I heard the voice and he's like, only a real estate agent is picking up my call. Oh.

Clever. I like the game. I think it's time for something sweet. I think it's... Well, fuck, we gotta recharge a little bit. We can recharge with a car. I need to recharge my batteries with something sweet.

Yeah. Let's go to Magpie's. I love that idea. They have vegan stuff in Magpies? They do, mostly. Big time. Holy shit. Mostly.

Let's go. Let's go over it. We're gonna get some ice. Good at sea. What's your... So the change flavor... What's your beef late? Their corn almond is incredible.

Yeah. I guarantee you the brown and brown. And I'm diarrhea is good. And you can swirl those two. Wrap us up. Yeah, so we're gonna wrap up here. We're at Magpie's. It's dessert time.

I wanted to stay in here. I apologize. You know, Daddy always needs something sweet after something savory. And we're dead. We are daddy. And we are daddy. So as we eat this ice cream,

I have a couple of questions for you. Uh-huh. When I asked you your favorite breakdown of all time, you responded with BG's nights on Broadway, which, don't get me wrong. Uh-huh. One of my favorite songs, it is up there with Return of the Mac in songs I've listened to for the most consecutive hours of the book. Yeah, yeah.

But in terms of what the world perceives as an actual breakdown in hardcore punk, rock, do you have any answers for me? So I think my answer within the punk and hardcore realm, rock, still may be even a bit controversial for the for the context of this pod I would expect nothing else but you tell me get out by madball it's a it's very simple it's not madball yeah yeah it's so simple it's so iconic the call-out at the begin at at the at the top of the breakdown It's just... Band name, you know I'm all about that.

Love that. Also, I can't not move. Before the song starts him doing... It goes, get out, get out. Yeah. The whole audience is already pop. Yes, yes. You created a moment like that

that you've created a live nuance that is so... At is iconic as the song itself. And the breakdown is your fucking band name as the Mosh call? Pretty hard. Game over. That's a great answer.

It's one of those... It's one of those riffs. that you think to yourself, how has no one plucked that from the... It was just sitting there amongst the atmospheric river and they're the ones who knew to pluck it. They really were, man.

And that happened all the time with them. Truly. Them and AF, it was like, damn, those notes were just there the whole time. Wait to be used like that. What did we, what did I, I said New York City, I think, was mine. Yeah, mine too.

Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. That for what, maybe what I feel like most people would consider like that's what a breakdown is. If something, if we're talking something that's a halftime that incorporates halftime and palm mutes, I would probably agree with you. Okay. Well, thank you. since maintained that Can't Stop Won't Stop is one of the like a top-up hard

for song of all time period period top top-top I think we quoted it on the way to juice today we did yeah I don't remember the context but it was what it happened can't stop won't stop you know that part it's sorry dude you make me laugh I've sent Bram all over the place also I guess was a last question we you know we said that perfect albums we We could call it the master killer tier. We should probably stop doing that, you know? Perfect album is a perfect album.

Sure. Master killer is a master killer. What do you feel we've missed? So, um, very good question, Paul. So I have a two-part answer to this question, and the first part, I'm certain it will be controversial. And for that, I apologize. But, you know, if you know, if you know what controversial,

Don't call the cake. Don't have a phone on Tony on. Don't call double a. There is a master killer tier album that you frequently reference when explaining the concept that I do, that I strongly feel is not master tier. Oh. Are you gonna say it's master killer?

No, no, no, I'm not, I wouldn't. Come on. Oh, right. Yeah, I'm not trying to have all all the threads unravel here. I'm listening to it. For it to be master killer tier, I think we could agree on this.

No skips. Mm-hmm. Uh-huh. And I believe the album, Thriller by Michael Jackson, has a skip. Agreed.

The dark girl is my... Yes. Agreed. That's why I say bad. I don't... I don't... I think bad's... High points are plentiful.

I guess I wouldn't make them high points. That would be... What's wrong with you? I'm dropping shit. I non-ironically think that song rocks. The girl is mine. Yeah, I really do. I think Paul McCroney's voice sounds great.

You think that they should have any business chasing the same girl at any point in time? I mean, that's a ridiculous way to look at it. Is it? I think, I mean, look, if there is any such thing as objectivity, and art, folks would not have a podcast. Of course. So,

I feel you, but I think it is like, it is quite silly in a way that, you know, I don't feel like is, that makes it not classic, I guess.

Paul McCartney, 10 out of 10 singer. The, the performances, obviously, are great, but. I don't like that song. I went to Michael Jackson

Stable Center Memorial. Right, right. light long fan let the man rest bad smokes it in hundreds of ways so so I just wanted to

put that out there Paul I'm a lover not a fight yeah Colin I'm a love yeah like the talk like the monologue it's like yeah it's so silly

Paul being like no Michael I'm gonna fuck her we're gonna listen to that immediately Sean as soon as we in the car Michael I need to fuck this girl no Paul I need to fuck this stuff.

I don't believe. What you've missed, I have, again, have not listened to every Hard War pod, though I am a fan. So I, maybe someone has

dropped fees in the past. I'm sure it's been a shock to either of you. I think Prince has three master killer records. We never mentioned... One being dirty mind, one being Purple Rain and one being Sound of the Times. I think from 79 to 89, every album is essential. But I could see the logic and some people thinking that maybe parade is not only classic songs, so on and so forth.

It is a practical. Of course, of course. You used to yelling me. And say that the point of Master Killer is that it's not a subject. No, I don't, it's not bad. It's just that there's a difference between, like, favorite and best, you know? And there's a difference between amazing album, great album, and... Timeless album and Perfect.

And this thing I really, I like. Well, then, by that rationale, Thriller Smoke's Bad. Because it sold more. It's his best record. That's what I'm saying. Oh. Let's just go, try. by track and tell me. Come on. Yeah. It's not

close. But by that logic, Swamp Thing also belongs on our list somehow. Swamp thing. Because somebody thinks that, you know? Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I guess it's not subjective. It's objective. But you guys, I love you.

I mean, I think the cure by disintegration. Other way around. Strike that, reverse it. Yeah. You got some chocolate on. No, no, that was right. The Cures disintegration. There it is.

The Smith's, the Queen is Dead. Depeche Mode violator. Do you prefer the Queen is dead? I think that's my favorite. Stevie Wonder talking books, Stevie Wonder, Andy Wonder, Songs in the Key of Life. Are you Smiths over Morrison?

Suzy, the screen. the scream. I no, I prefer the smits. But I do feel that because there are people who only like, they love the

Smiths, but they don't care for Morrissey solo. And I feel like most people who love and celebrate his solo work and the smits prefer Morrissey solo. Yeah, I did so. So I feel I am on I and one of the few who love both but still celebrate, but still prefer the Smiths.

Okay, that's fair. I mean, those are different moods. That's Taco Bell and they'll talk about it. You're absolutely. Wow. You know? Absolutely. It's like Smiths, you're getting fucking riffs.

Some of the best rifts ever written by a guy who had never heard the word riffless. And can never be rep. Can never be rep kidding. And Morrissey, you're getting the most finely crap. like pop rock and roll songs ever really. Totally. And I think with the Smiths, I like how his a lyrical approach was a bit more story oriented where he gets a, he's more heavy handed with the solo stuff,

which most all of it is I do love. But there's something about kind of involving the listener, In the tune. He was less worried about like... That grass... Rhyme and fitting things and the Smiths and... And Morsi's like finally crafted boat troop. Right.

He like hated rhyming. You know what I mean? It was like anti-rime. He hated layers and harmonies. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. I love a layer.

I love an an anthem. Really. And that's why we're here. Freedom of choice. Devo. Wow. How huge was that for you interacting with... Oh my God. The mother's ball. It was in... Come on in. It was unreal. It was so... It was so him, too, which made it so much better. Right. Tell me about that experience. Cold Cave played a friend of their, a friend of ours theirs. It's hard to, you know,

I never know what to really say. Yeah, yeah. birthday party that Mark Mumsbao from Devo was in attendance. And Wes and Amy introduced me to Mark. And they asked me to show him my Devo tattoo, which is here. And then he, well, I'll send it to you. Maybe you could... Oh, here it is. You know, with your text-adviness, could...

Show these folks. Isn't this great? Show these. And then he proceeded to do the most Mark Mother's Popping ever. I know what it's... You see, right now, the expression on my face is

joy. It's pure joy and honest. Gorgeous. Anthony, man, I could do this all day. We'll do... We'll do... We'll do something.

We got some album anniversaries coming on. something once. I love it. Yeah. We got, we got, um, we got the Anthony solo album coming out soon. What? Anthony. That's what I want you to walk away from this thinking like, wow, what a cool guy. Because he's been in the shadows for so long. And I've been trying to bring him out of the shadows. Look at this. Black clothes, which I own a lot of. But man, and now I'm glad that you all know the real Anthony just as I do. Anthony, thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. Ceremony, Cold Cave, Anthony.

Whatever he does. Calling. Bo. Black clothes, cold cave. Montes, Good Burger. Jack. Bag pies. There are fucking Balians.

All to a whole unit tattoo. This is been Haraldor Source for Tour. We will see you next week. Bye. It's a day, you know?