HardLore - ARTHUR RIZK: Master of Extreme Music Production (War Hungry, Sumerlands, Eternal Champion)

Episode Date: September 3, 2026

We're joined by Pennsylvania's own ARTHUR RIZK! Longtime friend of the show and expert producer/engineer of all things extreme.Before discussing his work with bands like Blood Incantation, Power Trip, the Cavaleras, Cro-Mags, Kreator (and so many more)... We discuss Arthur's background as the once reluctant guitar player of legendary PA Hardcore band WAR HUNGRY, which lead to him finding his footing in the hardcore community in the early oughts as a young metalhead. These days Arthur is juggling his time as a musician between COLD WORLD, ETERNAL CHAMPION and SUMERLANDS when he's not manning the board for metal's biggest bands.We're also joined once again by guest co-host and another modern great in extreme music engineering, our very own Taylor Young. This is a fascinating deep dive into the world of hardcore, metal & punk production with two of the greatest minds currently doing it. Enjoy._____________HardLore: A Knotfest Series, fueled by Monster Energy.Shot, edited and mixed by ⁠⁠⁠Steven Grise⁠⁠⁠ Title sequence by ⁠⁠⁠Nicholas Marzluf⁠⁠⁠ ​Join the ⁠⁠⁠HARDLORE PATREON⁠⁠⁠ to watch every single weekly episode early and ad-free, alongside exclusive monthly episodes​Join the ⁠⁠⁠HARDLORE DISCORD⁠⁠⁠ ​Get 15% off ⁠⁠DUNABLE GUITARS⁠⁠ with code HARDLORE. Seriously. A guitar. What are you waiting for??? ​Get 10% off ⁠⁠⁠⁠MILLS VINTAGE⁠⁠⁠⁠ site-wide with code HARDLORE.____________00:00:00 - Start00:01:17 - Arthur Rizk00:03:46 - Arthur's Path to Extreme Music00:16:01 - Arthur's Lesser Known Bands...00:25:41 - Engineering And Producing Music00:27:11 - Arthur's Engineering Breakthrough (Power Trip)00:29:14 - Approaching Production as a Musician First00:32:45 - War Hungry00:41:40 - WAR HUNGRY SELF-TITLED!!!00:50:53 - Pardon This Interruption00:53:18 - Eternal Champion & Sumerlands01:05:27 - Remembering Brad Raub01:07:54 - Sumerlands - Dreamkiller01:13:04 - Balancing Time Between Producing and WritingMusic01:15:42 - What Session Did Arthur Learn the Most From?01:20:36 - Goats****01:22:18 - Shout Out To All Producers' Spouses01:24:17 - Re-Recorded Sepultura Classics01:28:30 - Blood Incantation - Absolute Elsewhere01:32:49 - Most Difficult Records They've Made01:38:01 - Perfect Production01:41:42 - Best Drum Sound of All Time01:44:49 - Best Guitar Tone01:46:54 - Heaviest Record Ever01:49:41 - Production End Game?01:51:23 - Re-Recording Age of Quarrel01:59:19 - Arthur Kinda Likes Touring02:04:31 - Making Records vs. Playing Live02:06:23 - You Hungry Arthur?02:12:28 - Top 4

Hey, everybody, and thank you for joining us this week for this amazing episode with the great Arthur Rizek, one of the greatest minds in extreme music today on the production side, on the writing side. We start, of course, by talking about his bands, War Hungry, Summerlands, Eternal Champion, and more. And then we dive deep into production world, into records such as Blood Incantation, Absolute Elsewhere, Power Trip, both LPs, working with the Cavaleras, re-recording age of quarrel, we get into everything. And I am once again joined by, of course, one of the other greatest minds in modern extreme music production, my brother, Taylor Young. So I hope you enjoy this conversation where two great engineers collide.

And we dive deeper into what goes into music production than we ever have before. Enjoy. Welcome. It's Hardlord time. How you doing, Bo? What a special day we've got today. we've got an incredible guest, but let me first introduce to my left. My special guest co-host this week, you know him, you love him.

If you watch this show, my brother Taylor Young, engineer, producer, one of the greats. We love him. Twitching tongues, disgrace, God's hate, dead body. The list goes on and on and on and on. To my right. Wow. Our very special guest this week. one of our collective favorite guys, I would call him.

One of underground music's greatest engineers, producers, overall minds, and rifers, of course. Pennsylvania's own, Arthur Rizek. Thank you. Thank you for that introduction. I was waiting for a hard lore introduction. It happened. You got it?

I could just go. I could just leave now. That's all I wanted. Is that okay? Great. I feel like I summed you up pretty well. Perfect. Pennsylvania, everything.

Come on. Pennsylvania. You know that one? I've heard it. Yeah. I love that one. They're like 15 minutes away from me. Wisdom and Chains?

Yeah, like... The Poconos. I live at the foot of Poconos now, but I don't want to say where, because my haters will come for me. I don't want to docks you here. They literally won't come for you. I do want to docks early, Arthur.

Let's go. Tell me about where you grew up. So the Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania, like I says, near the Poconos, it's an hour from Philly with no traffic, an hour from Wilkes-Barre, about an hour from New York, all with no traffic.

Wow. So I kind of grew up in a perfect circle of places I could go. Like New Jersey is directly next to where I grew up, and there's tons of stuff going on in New Jersey. And I kind of just got lucky with the musical stuff because of all the gigging and stuff that's been going on for my whole life around there. You live in this beautiful triangle of swag.

Yeah, this is cool. So the Poconos, we got the honeymoon sweets with the hearts and stuff out there. That's a big, big deal. It's a big, it's a big vacation spot. Yeah, it was the biggest. And then it kind of went downhill after a while. There's a lot of cuckaroches around there. Kind of like all kinds of stuff.

Is it the dumb and dumber motel? It's more or less like that. What kind of kid were you? and how did you find extreme music? I was, I mean, I was always into music from just MTV, maybe people coming over my house watching MTV music videos and stuff. I kind of just got obsessed with any music videos.

Music videos, like, from a really young age. But when I got a little bit older, I have my cousin, shout out to it, who was giving me, like things here and there and my cousin, Joe and Alan Milan from Lebanon that when I went there, they just wanted to get me into good stuff. Fuck yeah.

And they were into metal. They were getting it illegally there because there's kind of no music stores. They would have somebody who maybe had a relative or something that would dub stuff and send it. And then they would get like dubbed cassettes and they have like hundreds of them. And you're just given to me like this, like stuff you're listening to Sucks.

Yeah. Listen to like Iron Maiden and listen to Metallica and like all that, all that stuff. And shout out Lebanon. Yeah, shout to Lebanon. I mean, big metal scene there as far as like people who are obsessed with it. Yeah. But no metal scene as in pretty much gigs because they get shut down by the government right away. And I've been trying to do like an eternal champion gig or something.

there for years but you know stuff's complicated but they got me in the metal basically and anything they would give me i worship them so much that i was just like i'm gonna pose on this i don't really understand what's happening here i'm like seven or eight years old and like i have like all this crazy shit what was the first thing were you that were you didn't feel like you were posing that actually connected with you i mean they when the great southern trend kill came out they gave me that and they put it on and it kicked in with just like laugh

and I've never heard anything like that I was just laughing I couldn't believe what what am I hearing like it's just insane shit like screaming and blasting and that was like the fastest blasting I've ever heard that was like pretty much right when it came out they were getting

that stuff over there from wherever they had cousins too that were sending them stuff from like Canada because they were into it so but that I really liked, I mean, the Iron Maiden stuff that was coming out at that time was like 90s Iron Maiden, Virtual X-I

was like some cool stuff but for me I was definitely like posing on and I was like I don't really get this. What's interesting is you say that like you're a later candle mascot like me. Oh, I love later candle. I like I mean I like it from beginning

to end. There's very little that I don't like shout out to Waife. Yeah, big time. But yeah, I love the And that actually is probably because in Lebanon and like Europe in general, the metal temperature over there is like way different. It's not like here. It's all like hard, you know, working class at the time or, you know, whatever. It's not like nobody's really like fucking with rainbow and deep purple and calling the metal bands here.

But over there, everything was influenced by like that whole circle of black stuff. Player and Rainbow hardest band of all time. Literally over there. But so, like, I kind of got into different forms, like a different more European taste of metal because of them. Right. And, like, later stuff, obviously, because over there, and still to this day, anything new that comes out in Europe,

people are just like, we're going to listen to that shit. Like, we're going to buy this CD. Like, they were playing the new Madonna record in, like, everywhere in Italy. I'm like, this just came out yesterday. And it's kind of like... It's Madonna! Yeah, it's like, that's it.

It's like new. So I was like, they just, they're down. Like, whereas over here, like, fuck that shit. Want the old shit. Fuck that shit. Yeah. So they got me into a lot of, a lot of, uh, that kind of stuff. But there's a difference between Pantera and Iron Maiden and then eventually finding...

Yeah, I mean, but also like they had like, Sam Ail and stuff like there and like, like, just more extreme stuff. But that's kind of what started me down that pattern, like Sepul Turo. and stuff like that. It kind of led me down the path of exploration because over here, stuff was a little bit more accessible and then eventually extremely accessible because we all know what happened.

Yes. Metal archives. Medi-fired. Metal archives. The greatest day is my life. Amazing. So how does that evolve in defining hardcore? Hardcore is like a weird thing

because I found it in high school but I wasn't like I was just kind of also like a little bit posing on it because I was into like Slayer and Sepulter and stuff like that, Jesus priest, whatever, death and the only people who knew who that was were people who were listening to metalcore in my suburban high school. Sure. So like I'm like, oh, you know Slayer. Like thank fucking God someone knows Slayer here in my like high school. And like, yeah, well, have you ever heard of like?

I don't know, like poison the well or something. Like, no, but if you like if that's what you like, if that's what you like, I'm rolling with you guys. So like, I kind of like metalcore and hardcore in high school I was like down with because I just wanted to be part of something.

But like, when I found like noise and extreme music, like black metal and stuff like that right at the end of my high school time or whatever, I was like, I don't give a fuck about anything. These guys are to at this point and it went like a different way for a little while like listening to like techno and

uh like trance and like just electronic stuff in general like really really into it noise punishing base frequency yeah 100% okay and then that point i started going to college wow in philly yeah temple you temple you shout out temple the owls um yeah and my buddy Alex Metz, who is from the Valley, and he's also, like, one of my good friends. He was playing in Warhungary at the time, and we were just hanging. I was, like, kind of sleeping on his couch, literally. Like, I didn't have a place. I was going to college and sleeping on his couch, and even some of his roommates

weren't happy about that, but he was like, fuck you guys. Like, this is my bro. And I kind of chilled with him. And he was like, you should play Scab guitar and Warhungary. And I was like, whatever. What is scab? What is war hungry? War hungry is a man.

No, this is you're going to time. Oh, yeah, that is me. I thought you're asking me. I was like, I'll school you by Warhundred. So, yeah, I was basically like that. I was like, this kind of isn't really my thing, like the early stuff. But I was like, this is cool. So you were not into hardcore when you joined Wonder?

Not really, dude. Like, I was like, I was really just into black metal. death metal electronic music and like anything like noise under underground um hospital productions like uh anything like the noise board just shitty shows jeff the pigeon there's a band called air conditioning yeah we're gonna get into that okay so anyway we're uh i'm into that stuff i'm just not into hardcore and then i start hanging with them and playing shows and i'm kind of like a little bit like okay, we're doing this. It's whatever, you know.

And me and Mook, the drummer of War Hungry and Hoodrack, we started to get good friends. I played a show with them where I did something, gave somebody a birthday cake on stage, and they're like, he doesn't even know these guys, really, and he's handing out a birthday cake to somebody. It's kind of weird. And Wojj from Cold World thought it was the funniest thing.

And he was like, do you want to be my friend, basically? and I was like, yeah, and we started hanging out every fucking day. There was something about you playing with one hand? Somebody played with one hand at this show? I mean, I heard about the cake. I mean, I could recall. I can't recall. Honestly, there's a lot of cannabis in these years. And honestly, that's kind of what brought us together.

I was like, yeah, I'll go play in front of like 300 people and get baked and, like, chill. And did you like the early War Hungry songs before you started writing? I mean, I didn't dislike them. I just didn't understand them. I'll get there in a second. Like, I didn't really understand hardcore in general. And even though I knew stuff about it, like, I knew bands. I mean, the more like hardcore bands that I knew at the time were just people who were playing in Philly, where I was working at the Unitarian Church,

I would be like working the record distro there. and like I would see like whatever bands came through there like Bain and I don't know Converge and like all those All the bigger Were there any you saw that you were like oh I actually like this? Yeah I mean I did I actually liked terror when I saw them They just put out lowest of the low at the time I think

And I liked that record I thought was intense Yeah But you know like I never really got down With it until I started hanging with it Woj. He would be trying to show me. He was like trying to break me. He's like, I got to break the code. He'd be showing me stuff. And I was just like, whatever, whatever, whatever.

And then we watched the video for Kingpin by Leeway and something snapped in my head. I was like, fuck. I was like, this is crazy. It's like, what is this? Like, it's so hard and it's good and it's like also like metal and it's also like hard. And it's like real. It's like street shit. And it's like,

and everything. Beautiful melody. And this was like, bridge the gap. And that was it. And I was just like, I need more stuff like this. And they're like, well,

you know, you've heard the Chrome acts. It was like, well, they just play power chords, right? Just like, da-na-na-na-na-na-na-na. And I don't,

I think we were listening to, he put on, I want to say it might have been crushed the demoniac. No, it was down but not out. Something where we were listening to it And I was like a little baked, obviously.

And a part came on where just the whole record got so loud. It was so, like, like, hard. I was like, God, that's like, Chromex are fucking awesome. Like what? And everybody's, like, laughing because it's like 2008 or something. Like, this dude. Yeah, no shit. Yeah, like, yeah, good one, bro.

That's like saying like the Beatles are good or something. But I heard a story. Pretty good. I heard a story recently of Nergel having the same moment like five years ago. That's crazy. It was like, have you heard of Chrome mics? They're like... It's amazing.

But it was, it is like that. That'll get you. Because I thought it was like, you know, it's kind of just like, I was like, this is kind of basic. But it wasn't. It's very intricate and the lyrics and everything. It's masterfully basic, if anything. Exactly. And those two records really just bridged the gap for me.

And then I went down the wormhole for a long time. I never really gave up my underground sensibilities and the stuff I was into. But when I finally got into writing, which was like with War Hungry, it was so much more fun for me because before I was writing like, basically like tech...

Epics. Yeah, like stuff like that. I want to talk about some of your lesser-known bands before we really dive into War hungry. October Skyline. Yeah, that's a... That was like a, I guess, math corps is what they would call.

all that kind of thing now. Were you ever into that? Math, core? Same in high school. So the people who had to do. Yeah, doing what I had to do. But I did like it. Bands like Neil Perry,

a bunch of like Providence bands, like as the sunsets and like, I don't know, like the Locust even from your coast. And just like random stuff like that, you know, Joshua Fifford about, like just like random shit, which is like, Ironically, now, like, people were hitting me up

in my Instagram being like, yo, bro, are you Arthur from October Scotland? And I thought somebody was pranking me to get under my skin because it's like one of my first bands ever. It's like something that I'm not really into now, but, like, at the time was like everything. And, like, we're now. But they're for real OS heads, and that's why they were... Dude, they hit me up in a week.

And, like, six people hit me up. And I said, someone's fucking with me. It's like someone just like trying to fuck with me and be like, yo, like, we know that you're in this brand. There's something like that. It's on your disco. Yeah. I'm like, I was like, okay. And then I at one point I was like, dude, I was like, I already fucking told you.

Yes. Like, he was like, what do you mean? And I was like, I was like, are you not texting me from like six accounts or something? And he was like, no, dude. He was like, a lot of people like your band. I was like, oh, that's kind of weird. And I guess like, because of like. TikTok or

TikTok or something like that it had like a revival or something like that for you man endless humiliation that was me and Robert from air conditioning and that was like basically like noise

core it was one of my favorite bands I ever did just drums and noise more or less like a table full of like trash and contact compact mics and stuff.

And air conditioner? Air conditioning. There's all kinds of stuff going on. But Robert was in air conditioning. Tell me about air conditioning. He's a genius. Well, that was my introduction to noise, basically, because in Liliha Valley, there was this place called Jeff the Pigeon that had like the most fucking insane shows.

It was in the basement of like a sweatshop. Insane noise shows? Noise. And other stuff, too. Tell me what constitutes an insane noise show? I mean, like, people, well, hell of noise, but also, like, violence against everybody. Really? Like, people, like, crawling in the shopping carts and jumping on, like, like, throwing, like, fucking fire extinguishers around.

They're hard pitting at noise gigs? Dude, like, just straight. Well, back in the day. Dude, that's sick. It was, it was all physical. And it was, like, crazy people just lose their fucking minds. You get that right frequency? All over.

frequency. I mean, also, like, I don't know, man. Like, if you, if you're a mosh to a breakdown, I know you have. 100%. I mean, no one spin kicks in noise, but like people just kind of fucking lose their minds yet. I mean, back in the day of that time where I was getting, where I, like, saw your conditioning. And I was just like mind blown because they had a, they had a drummer. And it was just like, for like 20 minutes. It was just like in trance. So you joining air conditioning.

I did one show with air conditioning. They probably had like 100 members or something, but that was like, not 100, probably like 20. That was a big deal to me. I was like, dude, I'm in fucking air conditioning.

This is sick. I was like, I still to this moment, I still, I'm like that I can't believe I got to like play with them. Me and Robert started endless humility show afterwards and he's one of my best friends

and a fucking like genius. So we did have Well, thank you. I mean, that was his, it was his concept. I just was happy to be there. But we played Chaos and Teos once. 2010, I want to say, or something like that. And it was, like, pretty insane

where it was just throwing symbols that were already broken, just flinging them like frisbees into the crowd. Sick. And people were just, like, getting hit by shit. And everyone was psyched. It was a good time. And, like, crazy loud at emo's and didn't get paid, but... Very cool.

You know what I mean. Have you seen the guy who does the snare solo? But he just, like, has a loose snare, and he's, like, throwing the snare and then hitting it and hit it sideways. He's, like, throwing it off the table. I might have to download it for the plane. Somebody in on the comments is going to be like, yo, that's some fucking noise legend. It may be.

It might be. It might be. It might be, it might be a poser also. Oh, maybe. There's a lot of posing going on too Because with any subculture There's a lot of posing going on But I'm not the gait

There was no mic involved So I wouldn't call it noise I would just call it racket Racket Okay sure Fair enough Last but not least Maybe my favorite of them all

Terrorism Oh yeah I mean That was a That was one of Also one of my favorite things That I did Because that was a lot of

fucking Physical noise And it was also Inspired by to Jeff the pigeon days, but also like... Physical noise? Yeah, like where basically just, I mean, I was known

for throwing like cinder blocks. Oh, cool. So there was a show I played where at Chaos and Teos a couple years later where I threw a cinder block out and somebody, it broke, and somebody was pissed and they took it and threw it back in me and it went right past my head. I felt the wind going and it like went into the drum set of the band

that was playing next more Boston. and it like exploded their kick drum. And did you love that? I did, yeah. That sounds like good set. Yeah, and there was a lot of like powder and like explosions and stuff like that and like people would just get really pissed every time.

There's the time I played St. Vitus where I hit somebody in the knee with a cinder block and Dave from St.Vitis like, dude, you're fucking fucking up here. You know what I mean? Like, he was like, can you like? What band was playing? terrorism yeah you book terrorism what do you expect that's what that's what that's what that's

pretty minor yeah usual terrorism well he hurt his knee really bad but then i was meant to go make it right and i walked in the bathroom to get my ridiculous garb off and the dude was there with like his knee bleeding i was like oh i was like like like urkel i was like did i do that you know and he was just like he was like i was like what can i do can i take you the hospital can he's like no that was fucking awesome man thank you and I was like you wanted to be but that was like second you wanted it yeah it was like the second to last show I think and as in like we were going through a um border check in Russia terror they pulled up my name and somehow that they they did and I they didn't say anything

but I was like looking and I was like oh he's like I'm fucked I was like why would you do that he's why would you start a band like that and call it that and then also be lebanese and also like and i was just like but i mean that's the thing it was just it was to me it was sick at the time as a noise guy yeah do you walk around outside and just want to sample everything bro should i bust out my phone and show you i mean you got some machinery i have like a hundred and ninety like voice memos of just like trash and shit you know what i mean like if you don't let me see I mean.

Oh my God, I still hit this. Oh, there it is. It's like, just gunshots. I think this might be, this might, like, we're so sad. I think it's like me, ghost main at some point. Doing some casualty outside. Just doing casual gunshotting, yeah.

What's, bowl hits? Why would I do that? That's got to be good. I mean, oh, literal bowl. Just like anything like I hear. This one says, Crash Bandicoot laughing? I like that. I was like

that maybe that would be good. You know, like... It's a good collection already. Yeah. Can you do this from last week? This is 22? Anyway. Any of those make a terrorism track? No, no. Terrorism's been long gone, so I haven't dabbled in

making stuff at all. Like, I'm really into what I'm doing now with a recording and like you know my like three or four bands that I have are enough to keep me busy and enough like people in my ears like we got to do this we got to do that I do not have time to be like terrorizing and terrorizing but I do try to work stuff into like my productions if someone's like you know we need intro's like crash bandicoot laugh got it you know what I mean absolutely into the Mosh part exactly this is this This is how he does it.

When do you start engineering and producing music? I mean, I went to community college first and didn't have anything, but I was trying to record stuff and would get laughed at everywhere I went because of stuff like that, you know what I mean? So I kind of was like, I got to learn to do the shit. So when I want to do something, I don't have to fucking answer to anybody. And that's kind of what made me want to start recording. So about 2006, I would say, I started dabbling with garage band.

Great program. Great program. And, you know, a little bit of pro tools, like learning stuff. What's your DAW now? Pro Tools. Okay. Sorry. I know, too.

He's the last holdout. The DP gets the DC's. I'm not like proud of it. Just the one I get the fuck out of here. You just like your, you like your fucking hotkeys, you know? I like my hotkeys. Yeah. I mean, that's a.

Keys anywhere. Bro, once you have a hot key, it's like you don't want to mess around. I mean, there's no point of being well-versed in anything when you're like on fire. Why even try it? Like that's how I feel about Pro Tools. So there's definitely better shit than Pro Tools. What's better? I think like Ableton is pretty cool.

Ableton is, I want to learn it. I want to learn it too. Too many shapes. Sean's good. Sean is good. So Ableton, that's probably the only one I think is like really. one i think it's like really better than pro tools what do you look at as your kind of breakthrough engineering work that proved to you that you could do i kind of want to say the first power trip

record honestly i mean there was stuff before it that i was like i got that i got this but power trip was like the first thing that i was like buying gear left and right's like oh i don't have this i don't have that like i've got to i got to figure this out i got to like that was 2012 i want to say we started on it and we did it in my mansion on Broad Street in Philadelphia where like the room was so tall it was just a living room I think I've seen the outside of this maybe I've run into you outside of it yeah maybe maybe honestly I went in there one time they had the basement too were you recording in the basement sometimes yeah okay yeah damn that's crazy yeah we've been up so yeah we did like the that record there and that was like the first thing

time that I had implemented pro processes, better plug-ins, better mics, better thought-processed and everything, whereas, like, a lot of other shit was, like, punk stuff that we could just get away with getting a good sound, good, and, like, mixing it and getting it done, and that's it, but this was, like, a real, to my knowledge, a real record, and, like, Southern Lord was a real label. that wasn't like. And then the band agreed and the world agreed. I think so. I don't know.

They did. I think so. But that was like kind of my first, like, okay, I'm going to do this forever if I can. And it was a lot of blood, sweat and tears, but for good. And I listened to it for the first time, like, not too long ago. I'm like an anniversary of something. And I was like, this is kind of fucking crazy. Like, I like, I like the shit.

This turned out good. You know, for whatever. I knew. I think it turned out pretty fucking good. Yeah. So. I agree. That's a good choice. Thank you. Do you approach production as a musician first? That's a great question.

Let me think about that first. Because you definitely do. Yeah. And you approach it from your own tastes as well. Yeah, which I have to turn off. You do. But you've been getting better. Taste is like one thing that, I mean, that guy

Richard Rubin says that he has paid for his his taste that's the thing he's like I got paid for my taste but he's got pop taste and I have like anti-pop taste so I have to go whatever I would do I'm going to do the opposite

but is your taste exquisite is the question 100% for sure to me it's snakes and sparklers which they're the best snakes and sparklers but not everybody knows that yeah exactly so I mean

I think that for me like I do have tastes but I've learned to curb them because it's not what Arthur likes and then is what people is what people like or just the band or everybody you got to think of everybody so my philosophy was that like I was saying earlier

I got fucked in the studio when I wasn't when I was paying somebody and giving weird ideas and getting shut down but I define the balance between like I have weird ideas and other people have weird ideas if we push and pull and we really believe in each other

and everyone's vision comes together, in the middle somewhere is an unknown thing. Single piece of art. Exactly. So, tastes are, as a musician, I probably do look first, you know what I mean? Like, as a musician, but I've also come to find that most regular people,

like people who aren't in bands, which regs, people, they like vocals more than anything. Yeah, it's so bizarre. I know. It's a guitar player. Turn up the guitar, man. I live in riff. You live in riff.

Kick snare guy. You know, I like a snare. I love riff. But people like Vox. They like a message or they like something that they could think about and apply their own experiences to. That's true. I do think heavy music people like guitars. Otherwise, they would be listening to something else.

Yeah, they do. But it's still half and half at least. Tell me why a lot of. a lot of records. I'm not trying to be scandalous here, but why do so many records sound the same? And then people are just fine with that. Like, this is how a guitarist. Do you really like something

if everything has to be the fucking same for you to like it? No. I think... Preaching to the quiet. Just putting it out there. It's interesting that like nothing sticks. Nothing is timeless anymore because so little is real. Fair. That's where I'm at, like, when I'm thinking about. I try not to think too much.

Just try to get in the room and do stuff. Do the thinking before and then execute when you're in the room. I like to ask people what their favorite records are and, like, hey, you're a drummer in the band. What are your favorite five drum records? Then I go and I, like, listen and I think of, like, things that could communicate with people about in the studio. Like, oh, I don't know, like, Trey Cool or something. thing, whatever. You know, like, we want to talk about it.

Rip, whatever, yeah. Undercover Ripper. Yeah. Or like, Igor Cavalera, you know, the Ripper. The Ripper. You know, or something like that, the goat. Okay.

All right, well, let's get into one of the greatest bands of the 2000s and 2010's Warhungary. Oh, Jesus. This clean-cut group of guys in Use of Today Shirts plays this,

somehow creates this, like, perfect, I don't even know if it's... Lead metal. Yeah, it's like, I don't even know if... Yeah, that's a good. Perform me. It technically is metallic hardcore. Yeah.

But because the context that you've just given me of like not really being into hardcore when you joined Warhung. Yeah. Makes this record makes so much more sense. So, yeah, I mean, we were actually, I was into, I was getting into all this stuff at the time. And then things that I loved already, like white zombie. and like faith no more and shit like that were suddenly taking on a new

kind of like perspective to me Oh this is as hard as some of that? Yeah so I was like before I couldn't write a riff really to save my life Before the self-hidal war before I credit a lot of it to Moot Kevin Dowell and some other people who were kind of like like Wade from Iron Age came to one of our writing sessions for the LP and I was like showing him a riff and he was like

that's a lot it's a lot of shit there he's like where are you going to put the vocals and I was like okay good point remember the clear difference is chops were grown yeah yeah from the last thing to that record and I think yeah and I think that really like it's kind of what set me on a path for everything is just that being there and like learning to not be like fucking crazy got me like I would still be in my parents basement today while trying to like learn Malmstein or something like I mean like I got to get these arpeggios down like the chicks love arpeggios totally yeah everybody's arpeggiating no it's it's not about it's it's really about serving a purpose

of a whole song yeah and then getting in with them I was just like all right i'm gonna dumb down every idea i have and just see what happens and we worked super hard on trying to get like a good balance there so it's a magical record it's magical dude um and i wonder what their feelings are are they going around time being like yo we found this fucking freak guy well you get so guitar dude you can talk to matt hudrack about that because he's always been extremely vocal about like he was like they brought this fucking guy and like

I was like what the fuck like these like can't we get like a straight edge hardcore guy in the band and and then like we made the record I'm not sure how long it took him to come to I think it was like two weeks ago he was like hey that was a good record and you were a good addition to the band

you know that's just his bad right he's just as much of a freak as you I know yeah more maybe way more and I love him the death. He's the best. I think, yeah,

that those guys were kind of just like, whoa, this is, like, not MOOC. Because remember, me and MOOC are, uh,

recreation buddies. Right, right. And, uh, Ian, who's the bassist on the record, Ian Marshall,

he also, a really freaky, straight-edge guy, like, could be, could be on drugs, but isn't? I accidentally buy records from him

on discogs all the time. Nice. You should send them something back and be like, dude, this is the corner of this, he'll love it. Like, you'll go nuts. But, yeah. They definitely were, like, weird guy. But through that time, I kind of got in, and it's funny because now I look at stuff,

shows I was playing back then. And, like, I look at, like, the lineups, and I'm like, what the fuck? Like, where was I? I was in my car, like the whole show. Listening to Manil. Listening to Manil. Yeah, it's just like, what? Like, it's crazy to think about.

And I wasn't even like really in it. You know, I mean, I was just like, this is like we're going here. We're playing, we're playing like United Blood. We're playing with Trapped Under Ice Record Release show and stuff like that. And all these legendary shows that I was just like, I'm not even, it wasn't until Sound and Fury, 2009. where I really felt the community. I felt like the potential. And I was like, this is crazy.

Like that lineup was insane. I mean, put up the poster. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's crazy. And we walked in on that. I was rolling with Iron Age, Mammoth Grinder, and Hatred Surge on a tour from Texas to Sound Infuri.

I was just just, just, you know, I was just like, Tarpie was like, come down, jump in the van and like, let's go. And they connect with you as like the metal freak from war. Yeah, that's, I mean, we met at the cake shop. I was actually playing in Razzle-Dazzle because Harun, the guitarist of Razzle-Dazel, also a recreational guy. You know, we were just having a good time. And we were like, yeah, we're going to go play the show at the cake shop with Iron Age. You're going to love these guys, you know, whatever.

And, like, I met Jason. He was wearing, I don't remember what he was wearing, some cool shirt. He was like, I heard about you. I was like, I heard about you. And we're like, you want to be best friends? Yeah, straight up. So that, but growing with them to Sound in Fury, it was so much fun. And when I got there, I mean, we had, we all played our sets and then, like, ate mushrooms and stared at the beach for, like, two hours.

And then just, like, just, like, went off in our own ways. And all, I watched every band. We practiced at Violations House where there were like a million pets in the house. I just remember there being like bird cages everywhere. And like, do you know anything about this? Might be Nathan's place or something? Nathan's, I think it was. I think it was his parents' house maybe or something.

It was like super cool. But we went, played there. They gave me a tape, I think. And I think I listened to it in like the van or something else. This would be the possessed seven inch probably. I don't remember. I still have it. If it was 2009, maybe I'll send you a thing of it.

Did it go b'am-da-da-da-da-da-d-d-d-van-d-van-d-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b... That could be. Something I, somehow we were listening to in the van. It could have been a tape, but I still have a tape from that era. But I was like, they're, I was like, this band's sick. It's like, they're kind of metal-ish. And then, like, Iron Age. And then, like, I remember we were rolling up.

We're like, oh, we got to get there. Todd Jones's new band is playing. So we were like, got there, watched like a little bit of nails. I was like, this band's like pretty sick. Like Mammoth Grindr played and they were sick. Iron Age, even though like I've been with them, I've kind of only seen them a few times. I was like, you know, I was like, they're sick.

And every... Actual metal band. Yeah, like, pretty much. I mean, it was like, I think like there's a lot more metal going on than I thought. Because when... Most of it. Yeah, when I was playing the gigs, everybody on the East Coast was shaved.

Yeah. But it's so interesting, going back to something like the sleeping eye now and how metal things are now, where that feels like straight up hardcore music to an extent. No guitar pedal. I mean, dude, yeah, literally, it's... But it was way... Like, Wade as a writer was way ahead of his time.

I mean, he was, yeah. And he was also, like, me and him were kindred spirits with music. both into, you know, queen and stuff like that. Like, I think, like, a lot of, like, harmony and, like, dissonance and, like, merciful, faith influence, all that stuff came into irony. But at the end of the day, his favorite bands were, like, I would say, like, F-tier bands from Texas, like, hardcore bands. I don't know who they are, but that just, like, just, like,

Like, bands I couldn't even tell you that have, like, one cassette or something. That's his favorite. That's what he would listen to, even though he was, like, a genius beyond recognition. RIP. RIP.P. RIP, weird. So, I think. Do you know at the time, like, how long does it take you to understand that by entering war hungry,

you're entering this kind of, like, legendary ecosystem of bands in Wilkespa. the title fights, the cold worlds, and the Warhungers. I mean, I never, I'll be honest, I never felt that because we were all so close. Like, the title fight guys ended up feeling like little brothers to me, even though they're, you know, like, I would go on tour with them and do their sound and stuff. And we were all just kind of like in the moment. It's not to like now where I see people, it's the 20 year rule where like something. They could be the biggest rock band in the world right now.

I just, I would love that for them, but I think that at this, at this point, I'm noticing that. I, like, back then it was just like, oh, this is crazy. You guys are on Warped Tour, that's crazy, whatever, you know, like, and we're like, cool, everything's cool. And we all had, like, a sense of pride or whatever, but I didn't know until now, pretty much. Did you do any production work on War Hungry Self-Titled? Yeah, I mean, I did a lot of it. Will Yip did all the, like, engineering and tracking. And to his credit, he was one of the people who didn't say no to me because...

There's a lot of crazy shit on that. Because I would be like, yeah, I was like, this part, I was like, I just want to, like, he had great, a great rack of gear at Studio 4 that was just, like, used on everything in the 90s. I would be like, like, I want to use this thing. And I want to, like, crank it just for this, like, two seconds, like a, like an AMS or something. like i don't know whatever i and he would be like okay like we'll set that up and i and like i could i would be like i would be dying inside if we couldn't do it but he was just down for whatever but it was probably so fucking annoying to him for me to be like we really want like this much reverb on this one second of the record there's a ton of there's like a noise and then reverb and then

the and then the rift it a lot of that stuff i did at my house like all the like sound design and shit. And for a lot of the records, I've done. I just, I love that stuff. And that comes from Sepul Tura, 100%. I can't, like, credit anybody except for them for that. The sound of Max's voice in reverse, anywhere, or like anything like that is like... Heartbeat at the beginning. Yeah. Any of that sound design stuff, like, that's, it's, it's, like, noise, but it's not. It's serving a... Musical noise. It's serving a musical... Yeah. There's a transitional purpose.

Yeah, purpose. Not that noise isn't it musical. Right, no, exactly. I'm in respect to it. But I'm just saying, like, you can mosh to it. You can mosh, you can kill. You know what I mean? But this is like a perfect thing that I wanted on everything I did.

And how did the rest of the band feel about that hearing? I think they're all psyched. I mean, I don't really remember a lot of celebration, because at the time, I don't know if it was the right time for that record to come out. It's ahead of its time. You know what I mean? I'm not saying that. But also, I think it had a devout following even then.

That's why it's aged well. Yeah, it's just great. It's cool. And I appreciate you guys saying that. But at the time, we played our, like, four-show record release tour. And I was like, all right, this is like, there's, like, a hundred people at every show. It's like, this is, like, a pretty, like, good success. But I was like, we haven't popped off.

And then we never really did. But I was just kind of moving on with. other stuff so but I it definitely now people are more hyped on it yeah than ever takes time to be timeless come on brother um there's the episode title yeah uh is there a song on there in particular like a riff that brought you supreme confidence that made you feel like you're doing doing it right i really like on the first song there's a um it's called the bottom there's a there's a breakdown in there that's just like really fucking hard

and I really like that breakdown kind of comes out of nowhere. It's just like chish chidding dan and ding down it felt it felt like it felt like war hungry

you know what I mean it's what I wanted I was like this feels like war hungry I was like this is what they're doing like kind of like stonery type stuff but also like it's got to be like hard. Blue scale hard. They just needed actual weed to be injected

into the band. Actually, that's what it was. Sorry Hedrack. You don't mind. Ben without being yeah, timeless, hard, ridiculous song that I love so much. Tell me about writing out. That was the band track

for sure. Big time. I think like the intro for that song also another one that wrote, like I was listening to a lot of like French black metal. Like I told you like at the time there was a band Death Spell Omega that had a lot of like really like

dark like open notes like evil sounding shit and I was like I want to do something like this for Warhungry which I don't know how it's going to work but we're going to do it and that was like that was like the intro and then the middle of the song like the harder

type riffs that was like from listening to like gore death, now like pathologists and stuff like that there's a lot of like transgressor stuff like that was like really this is shit that the rest of the band has no idea that you're

I mean I don't want to say that but I don't think I don't think anybody in the band was really like like you know play that transgressor part of the exactly the colors of the band everybody brought what they needed to bring

to the man like Hoodrack had like an STP type vocal thing that I love. Mook was really into like rock at the, like, glam rock and like, and like Faith and More also stuff like that. But like we were trying to like inject like, I don't know. I mean transgressor has straight, mosh parts.

Yeah, that was transgressor. That was kind of what I was bringing to the table was like more of like evil sounding stuff. And then we would just, I mean, we'd spent a long time trying to craft that stuff to me. So why was this just kind of a one and done? Just life circumstances. Kevin moved to the bay to start like a different career and stuff. And then I at the time wasn't, I was trying to start recording.

And I wasn't trying to really do another band. But then I started touring with Cold World probably. in like 2010 or something. Oh, so right before this came out? Right before or right after they were like, do you want to, do you want to go to Japan with us and stuff like that? Like, yeah, I'm going to fucking go to Japan. I never went to Japan.

And I want to hang with you guys. And like these are like some of my best friends. So I started playing with them. And at that time, it was just like, all right, well, I'm not going to like work hard to do this other stuff that is so hard to do. Yeah. at the time where Hoodrack started doing stick together

which is like he really liked that like straight edge. That's who he is. I was happy like everyone's happy so what's the... He did those records. I did do one stick together LP which was a lot of fun. We did in Rifkin's attic. Nice. With a board that, a carven board that

I actually left on my doorstep when I moved down. I just left it there. Did the power trip record on it. It did like a ton of shit on it and then I was like I'm not moving this fucking thing like I'm just gonna leave it here that's nice sat there for like weeks we drove by our old house and I was like that's still there nobody took that but yeah that's a relic that's an ancient sacred relic no I guess so but it is with war hungry it's such a wilks bear thing to make something

everybody loves and then just ride into the sunset I like it very appropriate common thread very common thread you know I nobody's ever put it to me like that but that's a that's actually a very astute observation i would say that's cool i think there's more integrity in that than just beating it and beating it and beating exactly i think so i like integrity the band and the concept you know the concept both two great things how uh do you have any plans to do more stuff with war hungry going forward uh me and mook have stuff written and like we're just we it's like once every eight to 16 months we'll get together and make like one demo oh cool and so probably Probably like 20, 31.

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That's MillsVintageUSA.com, code hardlore, 10% off. Back to the episode. So let's talk a little bit about Summerlands and Eternal Champion. Two sides of heavy metal made with expertise and love for the craft.

Thank you. How do both of these bands come together? Are you in Eternal Champion in the initial lineup? No, so when... We could start with... Summerlin. I'll start with Eternal Champions.

So when me and Tarpie had met up after we like, we're at that show at the Kigshop, we're like, let's start band. We were both into like Candlemas a lot. So we were kind of like maybe we could do a band that's like straight, like hard doom. And we started writing stuff. I did like maybe three or four demos. And then Eternal Champion started a whole. Officially and I was not in the initial lineup because it was like more of had moved on to like a U.S. Power Metal

Epic Fantasy type of thing which was like Manila Road and like Syri Thongle for all the hard lore Watchers that are falling asleep right now check out Syrah Thorethongle Dohertho dude goaded yeah you can mosh to Seerthongle Paradise Lost join the Legion like there's there's They're amazing. And they're from around here, Ventura. Two hours, one hour? Hour. Um, hour.

So, but we- Doom, doom is horror. Well, doom is, yeah, so. Period. From moment one. From moment one. From moment, literal moment one song one. Which is.

Black Sabbath, Black Sabbath? Black Sabbath? Which is. So we started doing stuff. I started doing Summerlin's demos because I was me and Jason were playing in this band called Hour of 13. We weren't actually in the band. We were scabs.

Hour of 13 is also a sick Doom band with Phil Swanson on vocals, who was the first Summerlin's vocalist. We were like kind of going to play some fest in Texas and then we were in their music video and then they broke up like a week later and Phil hit me up and was like, hey, do you want to write some stuff with me?

because he actually, as a, he heard of War Hungry. He liked Pennsylvania hardcore for some reason. He was in Connecticut, but he was like, I know Pennsylvania hardcore, and he's like naming all these bands. He named War Hungry. I was like, Jason was like, that's like, that's like, you're on that? He's like, you're on the record or the seven inches of the record? He was like, huh.

And they hit me up. He's like, you want to start a band. So I was like, fuck yeah, I'll do some. Having a unique interest in Pennsylvania hardcore is so cool. It's insane. Was it like crushed? I thought he was messing with me because what are the odds of that? Yeah, like strength for a reason was mentioned, like stuff like,

and then like a bunch of 80s bands and San Antonio bands. And like, I was like, Phil, like, are you like, did you like look me up or something? And he was like, no, and he literally had no clue. It was just so weird. I don't know. But so we, so he asked me to write him some songs because he was done with Hour 13 and he wanted to continue doing stuff. But he didn't.

It's like, let's just put on tape and give it to our friends. And I did the Summerlin's demo three tracks. And that's kind of what we did. We didn't even put. We just put it on band camp and immediately got signed to relapse. And then we were like, all right, let's do a record. And, of course, when I was in the demos,

the first, like the raw stuff is me on drums. But then I was like, hmm, do I know any drummers? You know, I was like, DFJ. Why not? Did you know DFJ? Yeah, I mean. DfJ were also cool. DFJ, the show

that I met Jason at, DFJ was playing drums and Razzle-Dazzled. That's how we met. We met on stage, and I was like, I heard about you, and he was like, I've heard about you, too. I love him. This happens. It happens all the time. It happened with Brendan Radigan, too, who's now the singer of Summerlin's that same

fucking show. It was like Iron Age and Razzledazzled The Cakes Shop in Brooklyn. I met all of the people who are still in my life you know so and and when he says these names this is DFJ dance floor Justin

like one of the most prolific hardcore drummers in history Brennan Radigan the singer of rival mob is the singer of Summerlin so this is all yeah it's like it's all hardcore people making metal which when we first started people did not like

people in the metal bar metal scene were like these guys are fucking hipsters Summerland's first LP they were saying that? Literally, they were like, these guys are hipsters. What? We played a show and people were like, you know, like, fuck these guys are not true or something like that.

It's the best heavy metal since 1989. Dude, straight up. So I was like, I was like, okay. I was like, if you're calling me a hipster, that's a good thing because that means that I'm cool and I've been waiting my whole life for this, waiting my whole life. But dude, second one of the Summerlands LP is the stuff that Jakey Lee is not allowed to do anymore. You know? It's like this is...

Jake, where is he live around here? I think he's San Diego. We love Jake. I love you. We love Jake E. I worship at your altar. I sent him an email. Jake, please, come on to the show.

We're dying. You'll come back for that home. I'll come back. I'll be here to cause of a guest interview. Sounds great. Jakey Lee's like amazing. Shot in the dark. Shot in the dark.

It's like the most perfect song. Every ring. I think. It's on my list of songs I wish I had written. That's like one of the best songs ever. And Bark in the Moon and like every song on those records. Bark in the Moon chorus riff is the second greatest riff. So cool.

And it's one of the first things I learned on guitar. So I realized that you could play a power chord on the next. Dude, isn't that crazy? That's a power. And your mind doesn't process it that that's the root. It's crazy. And then the fucking high string. skipping trim.

It's all crazy. And he doesn't use, like, Eddie Van Halen also is like, I don't use effects or anything like but Jake Lee was like, fuck you, I don't use a whammy bar. I just will push my guitar up here past the nut and do stuff and like whatever. I think he's the most underrated to ever live. I love you, Jake. We love you, Jake. So, yeah, but that, the whole Summerlands record, I was like Queens, right.

Jakey Lee and like I was like I want to do like something like this not Ozzie jakey Lee no Ozzy was I clocked it from a mile away dude and I'm and like in the best way and and heavy metal at at the time was so uncool in 2012 2013 it was there wasn't like cool heavy metal bands it was kind of like people who are doing cool shit but were playing the like 40 40 people or something like that a night. And I just was like, I mean, let's just fucking do this. Let's do something that's like heavy metal. It's perfect music.

Then down the line a little bit, Eternal Champion was like, kind of had like three or four lineups of like legends from bands. I'm not even going to mention because there's so many like underground power metal involved in Eternal Champion that we got to a point where, he had ended up with just a bunch of people and nothing was really getting done and like Blake was in the band he was going on tour a lot with Power Trip

and I kind of just stepped in and he was like will you come up and like help write the LP? This is the second LP? The first LP? Oh the first one you played base on right? I played almost everything on the first LP but you were like the bass player of the band I was no at that point I had to join in

on drums. Oh, drums, okay. But I wrote, like, I would say, like, half, 60% I want to say the wrong thing because other people were involved in the first LP. One of the songs was one of the Doom songs that I'd written when we were in, like, talking about this in 2009.

We got to do this band. One of the songs, we revisited it. And then from that on, I got New John, my, my life partner to be from war hungry he's in war hungry he's in uh summerland's eternal champion he's when i'm like doing something he'll fill in for me in cold world uh he's basically like he's arthur two he's he's he's he's he's arthur one he's better than me he's so good at guitar um and i was just like yo i want you in the band like we just play some solos on this i kind of was like

We already have a whole band, but do you want to be in the band too? And we'll figure it out later. You know, like, just so he played some solos. And we kind of did that and then figured out the lineup stuff. And then from ravening iron was our second record. Bangor, yeah. Like, kind of been the same thing. We introduced Connor into the band recently.

I stopped playing drums. I'm not a really good drummer at all. I have to listen to a click to play the time. Yeah, I can't like. Like, I can't, I could play once I have the click. Wow. Then if not, I'm slow. I think it must be my ADD or something, but I cannot play.

Just thinking about other shit? Yeah, thinking about other shit. You know about air one. Vival smoothies. Thinking, I mean, I'm usually like thinking about like, that mic is angled wrong. And I'm like, wait, oh, fuck. He does this thing that I love where a front of house guy will be saying stuff. And they'll be like trying to troubleshoot something.

And he'll be like, just drop the 600. Yeah. I love that. And they'll be like, yeah, well, it worked, I guess. I do fix a Yamaha M7 board at our own headlining show recently because they couldn't figure out why stuff wasn't routing correctly. I was like, oh, yeah, the M7. I was like, I've run off the stage. And honestly, it was like the best moment in my life.

Dude, so sick. Done. I was like done. I was like, I walked back, I was like, yes, fuck it. Taylor is a, by the way, a much better multi-instrumentalist than me than I. I did sound for him, for nails for like, I don't know, a few months or something like that. We saw the world together. He's my favorite drummer.

Yeah, and I was like, no problems at all. Barely any compression, for those you know what a compressor is, barely any of that. just a nice hard-hitting drummer. Stop. And nobody even knows. He doesn't show this to people anymore. It's bullshit. You want me to do?

Plenty drums, motherfucker. Play, join a band. You don't have any. But that was a good time. And yeah, so drums, we got it, we got, we got Connor, and then I'm kind of just like, now I also have like a spawn, a little baby. yes congrats to juliet love you

i kind of just like taking a little bit more of like delegating position more than being like uh can't just go caroac caroac i don't want to do it and i don't want to be that guy either and like i just i love i think i love collaborating more but it's just my brain sometimes

won't let me jam anymore because i don't know what it is you got to i got to come loaded Or it's just not going to happen. Jamming is hard. Do you want to talk about Brad? Yeah, always. Absolute legend. Yeah.

RIP. Thank you. Thank you for bringing up RIP, Brad. We joke about Brad a lot because he was such a, like, a funny dude and also, like, a lot of funny habits and mannerism. So we're just, like, literally talking about him all the time. I know. When I see you talking about Bo, I'm, like, everywhere, I'm like, I know that, I know that feeling. Or you're just like, I just want to, like, speak his name all the time.

time and stuff. Yeah, just want to bring his stuff back. Yeah, but Brad, he's, he's a legend too. And he, he, he was all, he was playing bass when we toured with twitching tongues, right? On the, like, little mini, coat orange twitching tongues, War hungry tour on the West Coast. That we needed Warhungary on. Mm-hmm. And it wasn't even an negotiation. And Moose couldn't even play something. We didn't know until I was getting on the plane. And I got a text as like, hey, I can only play like two of these shows.

I was like, oh, no. And then I had to, like, practice drums. So I don't know if you remember. I played drums for, like, too. But, yeah, Brad, he's just like a fucking legend. And it's been weird playing gigs without. Summerlin still hasn't replaced them. We've been using a sample.

And we're like, oh, Brad did good tonight. You know what I mean? Why not? Did better than ever, you know? So, like, but we use his, like, tracks from the album and stuff and, like, play to a classic. Yeah, we're going to, we'll eventually figure something. now but for now it's fun and we're like bringing his ashes places and leaving them places that

we know he wouldn't want to be like we're going to leave you on the stage of hellfest okay you know what i mean like a little bit here leave you the leave you like around the world france these world france like these like beatnicks that are hanging out reading poetry to each other you're going to sit with them but yeah we try to keep his memory alive you know but it's tough yeah it is tough that kind of shit will make you want to actually work less and do less and like kind of enjoy life and shit like that a little bit more yeah but it makes when you do work so much more meaningful exactly there's there's a little bit like there's brad and like also i'd like to give out shout out to all the all the deceased homies riley wade you know everybody kale

kale of course i'd be kale yeah we keep going in their in their memory yes important dream killer 2022. Brennan's in the band, Justin's in the band, certified super group. Thank you. How does this lineup come together and how does this record come together?

I mean, Phil was like, yo, I'm out, basically. And he was like, I love you. He's like, don't be mad, but I don't want to, I don't really want to sing. He isn't like performing live too much and we were starting to do a little more of that. And I think he was just like, you know what?

We killed this together. let's just let's just call this like we look spare style yeah let's call this and like i'm gonna i'm gonna back down and like just find somebody i was like i don't want it unless i'm gonna dissolve the band and he was like no he's like just because i'd written most of dream killer he actually did some guest er sorry he did some demo vocals for some of this stuff and but we just were like kind like all right should we continue and then brandon was literally the first thing we brought up and I'm like, nah. Like, he's in all, like, every band.

Like, we can't do this. He was ripping Magic Circle. Magic Circle. Pagan Alter at the time. Pagan Altar is, like, a very big, a classic Doom Band, and a big, like, they're just legendary from. So he was singing with that.

He's singing a little million metal bands, and we were just like, let's find somebody. We talked about every, we were looking in the core sector. We were talking about one of the bands. Finish guys. I think in one of the bands. that you guys fuck with,

I don't, because I'm so not well versed with hardcore, I can't remember if it was into another singer. We were like, do you think we can get him? We were like, we were talking about like Tony Martin from Black Sabbath.

We were talking about all these like insane like names came up. And then we went through all of them and they were like, wait, what about Brendan? Like, that was our first. You'd be perfect. And that was. That was it. So we got him.

And he like, of course, He's a fucking genius, and he just nailed everything right away. And the whole time was like, this, I sucked. I fucked that. Oh, dude. I was like, no, this is perfect. And I was like, no, let me do that 10 more times. I was like, no, it's perfect.

It is. Yeah, like, he's really good at singing. The song, Night Ride. Nice. Dude. What a hook. Thank you. Tell me about that one.

That's one of my favorites. I think we're going to start playing that one live. Do you guys, does Yacht Rock get talked a lot about on? every now and then i'm not opposed at all um there's yacht rock is a genre it's not really a genre that can define anything and you're talking like christopher cross chris cross like one of my goats um the the the bg's in the 80s and their solo records yeah the eagles in the 80s like uh does that count yeah uh the the long run after hotel california they have a record full of soft yacht bangers and it's It's one of my favorites.

And that's, like, a huge inspiration. I, like, after playing, recording the most extreme bands, like, you get done recording a band, like, piss grave, for example. And then you're like, I don't really want to listen to anything extreme. No more piss, no more gray is for a lot. Nothing. We got poop noises for 46. Dude. And that would just be like, you know what?

I love me. I love guitars. I love solos, music. I love the soft piano. So I was like, we need like a banger like this, something that's just like, you know. I mean, there's one on every Ozzy record. For the cruise, yeah, for the cruise.

That's kind of it. More of what, there's nothing really more behind there. Yeah. Do people often try to book both bands together at like a bargain rate? Do you like that? I do. What is it up with that? You guys ever hear about them?

Would you like to do more work for less money? Yeah, always. It's like... It's more work. There's only one shared person, right? We have a booking agent. Shout out to Nick Storch, if you guys want to Book a Turtle Champion. And so he handles all that shit.

And then that kind of has broken that up lately because they'll hit me up or they hit him up, but then they realize, oh, wait, there's two separate people. You can't just tell one guy. If it's in Greece is the only exception. Because it's like our labels from Athens, No Remorse. And also Up the Hammers is like the greatest heavy metal festival I've ever been to. So they can get the bargain. They can get the bargain.

And they pay too. They'll pay. But like everywhere else they're always trying to do the bargain range. It's crazy. It's hard. Hey, if we give you 60% of what both bands get separately, would you play back to back and absolutely punish yourselves? Literally. I mean, does Airw...

We say yes every time. Does Erwan pay for the viral shakes if you make the same blue shake eight times? Yeah, is it Bogo? No. No, go. No, no. Do you know... That's a great question, by that. Hey, thanks, man. How difficult now is it balancing your time between creating music and making records for other people? I think, like, it's pretty...

I mean, it's pretty difficult because you do want to sleep every now and then, and, like, Also, like, enjoy life, like I was saying. But you also, like, I don't know if this happens to you at all. You kind of, when you're listening to one band for so long that you're working on and you get sucked into their aura, you kind of lose your aura a little bit, just temporarily. But it thwarts the whole process of creating music, which is kind of why all the my heavy metal bands are, like, records like four to six years apart. And it's just kind of like, we're not trying to make it or anything.

We just want to make some cool shit. When you're on day eight of a mix, you do not want to play guitar? No, you don't. And you're thinking about that one Tom roll or something. You spent 10 minutes trying to clean up or something. I'm coming back in. I think every time we make a record, again, they are four to six years apart at this point. And there are these hyper-specific time capsules of what we were into at the time.

And also, being a pretty... producer and an engineer, you kind of sometimes lose your center because you're doing so much for other people. So like for a little secret is sometimes I'll send a mix to Taylor. I'll be like, you know, Taylor, what do you think of this? Like what's, does this sound fucked up to you? How can producer's code? Are my ears broken? Producer's code is important. Yeah, and he'll be like, this is trash. The song sucks, but the mix is good. I've never been that harsh. I'll be like, No, he's honest. And, like, that's actually something that's really cool in the community where, like,

if you have friends that you trust and you can send them something and they give you a different perspective, even if you don't agree, you're like, oh, yeah, like, I can see that and maybe try and do stuff. So for your own shit, it's really important. Agreed. Big time. Yeah, bro. What's up?

Producer codes. Friends. Producer code. Yep, yep. Do you know how many total discogs credits you have? it's got to be at least two digits right maybe three more than that definitely three definitely three i would say probably like somebody brought it up to me about two years ago and it was like up to like four or five hundred six hundred and twenty six it's a lot i let's start playing clips from everyone

and see if i could guess them okay sounds good seven hours seven hour of a six what and and maybe this might be the same answer from the question i asked earlier but What session or band do you think taught you the most? I mean, that was one of them, but there's probably, you know, every time, there isn't one thing. Every time I get a band where in my mind I want to, like, elevate myself, I'm like, this band is doing good. I don't want to, like, let them down. I'll sit on forums and read stuff. if I'll watch videos and I'll try to like buy something new every time that might actually

really actually help not just be like, you know, I got this shit. Like, you know what I mean? Like I try to do something. I got some new knobs. Yeah, new knob, which I want. You know what I mean? But I just like, I think like everything is, it's everything. I mean, there's, I would say the one record, to be honest, that I really was like nervous about was working with Creator because...

That wasn't even that long ago. It wasn't that long ago. I mean, I was like, you know what? Every one of this band's records sounds so fucking crazy, huge. Probably since like the mid-90s or so. They've all been like commercial grade. And I don't know why they're trusting me,

but I'm going to like learn everything possible of modern techniques to bring something closer to what I have, to what they have. So they're not like, you just fucked us out of like three years of touring because you had the loudest mixes of anybody. So I don't think you needed to. I just wanted to figure it out. And I kind of worked on that a lot.

And also Cavalera conspiracy record psychosis. That one I really worked hard to try and do max justice because that was my first record working with them. And I really wanted to kind of like. I'm like, I want to give these guys. They were playing a lot and not really, they were not really like, I don't know how to put it. They were just like playing with playing shows

where a lot of people who should have been hearing them and knowing about them just didn't. They were just like, I don't really know. Put them back on the map. I don't want to say that exactly because those guys, they put themselves to form with the right song. They drew them. They drew the map.

They drew a map, but they had to get, he'll get back on the map a little bit. They put themselves on. They're my goats. Like literally, like, I think Max is the most metal person I've ever met my life pretty much. And somehow the most punk, too. And the most punk, too. And Igor, like, me meeting with me meeting Igor in like through Andrew from Strife put us together. And we were both into noise and weird shit, electronic music,

techno and that's kind of where we linked up and years later when we finally all decided to do this we brought everything all the worlds into that record and I was like I was painstakingly not sleeping for a very long time trying to make it the record and I wanted it to be and they they have everything to do with it I just they were but they but we did it together I got to play bass on it so If you look at the record, it says, Max, Igor, I think Mark, and then Arthur. That's a super group. And that's like, okay, retire.

And I didn't even done anything. You know, it was just like, that's it. Yeah. Beautiful. And I came, and I was going to try to come to the old pit and do a little bit of mixing, because I was here way too long. I used to do this all the time. I would buy plain tickets to the wrong place and long dates.

Not on purpose. I don't know why. It's just 80. The weed was buying. It was probably weed. I did the first War hungry razzledazel tour in Europe, I flew to Leipzig. And the first shows in Belgium, which is like a 10-hour. And I think I literally think it's because I was like, live in Leipzig.

Literally listening to it and accidentally bought it. This is where I need to be. Yeah, I was like, I'm going to Leipzig. And Leipzig sucked. And I took a 10-hour train to get to. Or maybe even longer. I was a train for a long time in a car for a long time, and I missed the Razzle-Dazzle set, which Rifkin filled in for.

Excellent. Planes, trains, and the automobile. But at that time, I booked overbooked, and was just hanging out in L.A. And Andrew from Strife just let me crash as place and just took me everywhere. It took me to Ross Robinson Studio where I met Ross, and eventually me and him work together on Ghost Main, like 10 years later, 8 years later, something like that. So you did a record for a band called goat semen? Yeah. Any relation to goat penis?

Peru and Brazil. Yeah. They're just both. They're both, yeah. But the goat is a very symbolic thing. So it's a lot of like penis and semen that's like... Goat penis, goat semen. You can't have one at the other.

You have one at the other, no, really. But yeah, goad semen are awesome. Is there any hesitance in making a black metal band sound good? that's a bad question because you know their fans are going to be pissed i said that i said that you have a lot of good question that's a bad one i'll tell you why because sounding good on like a black metal band for example um might be sounding what you think is bad but it's good it but to be to be like in all seriousness polish maybe not good but it's the it's like everything else you know what i mean it's like the whole thing and i haven't really listened i haven't really been

listening like to a ton of black metal for you like i said like i'm just like too much stimulation with extreme music and i want to keep it for the studio if i end up working with extreme man i want to give all my extremities love it to them in that moment all of your my yeah and then when i get to home it's crisscross and like uh or nothing or nothing or like sports or just like, not to be, like, pretentious, but like, I do really like classical music. I've always felt like classical music. I love this heavy metal in disguise. It is.

It's the earliest form. Yeah. And like, extreme. Yeah, so I don't know. Now, with Taylor, I know that when he dumps a mix, he takes it inside and he fires it up in the living room for two to three days straight at a time. Or the car. Or the car. And I know your wife, Kyla, just can't handle it.

She's heard every record more than anybody else. Is that the same case with Jackie? Shout out to Jackie, love you, Jackie. Big shout out. So I think, yeah, she knows everything. And she doesn't, like, she doesn't ever get sick of it really, but she's not, like, happy about it either. But she's just like, oh, this is a goat seam.

I know that song. Yeah, I know that one. I mean, day six of the Pissgrave record. Yeah, I mean, it's like, there is a little bit of, uh, I listen in the car a lot, and I do listen in on many, different things because you have to you can't not even if you have like a million dollar room it doesn't matter that's not the same as the way people are now and any in AirPods and fucking like five five speaker whatever everything you have those everything

make notes everything has to be jbl ready she knows that any shout out to all all producers wives come straight up give them all 100% just like thank you guys or ladies or husbands or husbands yes sorry their ears are bleeding internally but their arts are full of beautiful so there's a lot of single producers yeah it's a very sedentary gig i did ask somebody that once early on i was like so do i have to be single to be able to like make it and he was like unequivocally yes I was like, but they were wrong. Look at you guys. It was a guy in a studio

who had like worked with like Guns and Rose. I don't remember what his name was but I was just asking him kind of like tongue in cheek and he answered like seriously. He's like yeah dude get rid of the hose. That guy's alone. Brutal. Brutal shit man.

He's got his frequencies. Yeah. Negative 600. Now you spoke in the Cavaleras and working on the psychosis record. They would then eventually trust you with mixing, remixing a re-recording of morbid visions. So, yeah, I mean, I've, since psychosis, not to brag, shout out to Gloria Cavalera. I've done every Max Cavalier thing with the exception of one Soul Fly record and one, I think,

Killer Be Killed was the name of the band, right? But everything else, they've kind of trusted me, and I really, really, like, I'm always honored because, like, we're cool. I'm sure you guys are friends with people that you've looked up to and are cool with but it never gets old to jump in the studio with him. I was talking about him a little bit earlier in the interview Max. He just loves

everything. He just loves playing guitar. When I met him for the psychosis, I walked into his house and he was sitting with like a little drum machine and like a CD burner and just making like riffs and watching like a concert DVD and there's like a thousand horror movies on his wall.

And it's like, oh yeah, I'm just coming up with some shit for the record, man. Like this is, you know, whatever. It's like, I'm like, this is where you're dealing all the time. You just live the whole thing. He's the ultimate, like, do meet your hero situation. Absolutely. Not one disappointing. And he will, and he loves an appraiser.

It's like the South American thing. Most of a lot of them, you don't come to Brazil. Oh my God. So we're doing that passion. Legit passion. But yeah, so I ended up to... I'm dying.

You guys haven't? No. Razzle-dazzle tour in Brazil is how I ended up, eventually ended up, working with the Cavalers because of Andrew Klein from Strife because we met and we all went on vacation together. Straight at Andrew, by the way, I should say. Of course, yes. For the hardboard fan. That's right.

Still strange. That came out yesterday. They got one. Yeah, it did. But yeah. So then I did the most of them. or eventually after doing like Soulfly, a bunch of other stuff,

I'd really love to do another Cavalera record with them with the lineup now and what they know and where we were then and where we are now. I would say that the Morbid Vision's Bestel Devestation record re-recordings were awesome to mix because they were just,

they just went in, listened to them, played them. Like, okay, that's done. And it was like raw. So it wasn't like, hey, we're going to get this for... Let's make it sound a little better. Yeah, no, we just... They just tune the guitars. They tune the guitars.

So cool. That was the difference. And schizophrenia, too. That was, like, my, probably my favorite Sepul-Tura record. I think if we're talking about my whole, my whole career of liking Sepul-Turo. I like that they did a third version of Troops of Doom and changed it again. Gotta. Yeah.

Can't have the same thing. My favorite is get it again. Did-a-da-da-da-da-da-da. Well, the new one is the new one... I think it's... I think it's faster, too. Like, they went back to fast. I don't remember.

Igor loves to go back. But I remember hanging out and be like, oh, they changed it. They did it again. That comp version was like the iconic one. They got to do that so that somebody complains. You know what I mean? They have to get the complaint. They need to do it fourth time and just have it be like,

should. Catch who the real fans are. True. Got it. Right here. Right here. three of us. We recognize it's all different. I did, when I was listening,

schizophrenia, when I was mixing it, sorry. I was comparing and contrasting. I had the finished product, and I had like MP3, and I would go, 10 seconds, 10 seconds, 10 seconds. Is there another take of that? Can we put something there? Oh, like you tried to, like I tried to make it close. Yeah, because I love, I love that record.

It was stuck in my car. You don't want to fuck it up. You want to make something new. You want to make that record. Literally. Stuck in my car I was listening For years Could not get it out Shout out to the Lexus

Oh Lexus 2001 RIP Blood Incantation Absolute elsewhere Wow Crazy shit dude I love that record

I would say that that's probably the most realized thing I've ever been a part of in a sense of We've been talking about it I've been through All the Denver

bands in a way like starting with the band Black Curse, which was Eli from Spectro Voice. I was a Spectro Voice fan, and I wanted to record them. So did Black Curse, then Spectro Voice, then another Black Curse, a primitive man,

like all these Denver bands that were blood incantation, either adjacent or related or had members, did them all to the point where they were like, okay, I think you could do blood incantation now. The only thing was we needed to do, tape and I was like I don't fucking do tape because I'm they just they needed it they wanted it and then we did so I brought my buddy Aidan Elias who's my assistant love you Aiden and he was running

the tape machine the whole time in Germany where I did the creator record hansa studios David Bowie low uh David bowie heroes all the Depeche mode records marillion it was like a crazy studio The Tangerine Dream is the reason why we went there. Wow, cool. It was like one of my favorite bands of all time. And we went there and we had good shit. And we had been listening to demos and they worked their asses off. And we just did like 30 days of saying no, no saying no to anything.

Really? Hey, can we? No saying no. Can we add this? Yes. I mean, it created this. Dude, it's a monumental extreme music achievement. I appreciate that.

And I shout out to the boys because they, they busted their asses. I just tried to make their shit come true. And my dreams are coming true, too. Being there with them and being at that studio and having, you know, my coffee brought to me every day. My espresso brought to me every day. My matcha, my everything. They got a matcha there? They got everything in Germany?

They got everything in Germany. Berlin at least. Berlin has everything. Cabab and matching. It was cool. It was a really creative time, and it was probably the hardest mix I've ever done because there are like 200 tracks of shit. And we just went to Pompeii, where Pink Floyd recorded their live, and did the set there. And just with the five of them, it sounded like the fucking record, like exactly. I was like, how are you guys covering all this?

Like the shoe, two arms, a couple samples here, and there, nothing crazy, but like, it was just like, it was awesome. I saw it at the cemetery in Chicago. Yeah, I wasn't jealous of that, actually, when I saw the little clips of you guys there. It was awesome.

And Beau was a big fan of it, too, right? Yeah, that's why I went to that. Like, I liked the record, but he was like, dude, it's in a cemetery. Yeah, so I was like, that was cool. That was a great record. Shout out to the guys. And does a band like this come in knowing

kind of exactly what they want? Yes and no. Yes, because they know what they want, but then no, it's like there's no ceiling on what we can have. And that's kind of what they brought me in for to kind of just be like, what can we, well, what else can we do? Like, let's just throw everything at the wall,

see what works. Because what they had already going into there is the core of the record was unchanged. The second song, on the record side B, the message was the first take of the song with some like a couple of dubbs, like a couple of drum punches here and there. It's awesome. It was like literally the guitars, everything was the first time they played it.

And it's like crazy click that changes like a hundred times with all this like ambient shit and stuff. So they really practiced. But the stuff that we added later, that's what that's kind of the, what gave it more and more dimensions. We are through it all? More dimensions. Got to have more dimensions.

This is a question for both of you. Go ahead. What would you think are the most difficult records you've ever made? Like number one. And that doesn't have to be a negative thing. Just a lot of work and then a satisfying result. It's funny. You mentioned we're thinking about today,

Ghost Main dropped a new song. And I was thinking that the last record that I did with him anti-icon it's called with kale was probably the most work and hard work that I had to put into something because of like circumstances of recording it like multiple different places and um doing stuff that as like a metal and like other stuff producer but also like diving into the rap world which is like really competitive and there's really a lot of sample libraries and stuff like that that commercial rap producers just go to

and they're set and they have systems and I got no systems. I was just like I'm going to try to mix this rap record like a cross between I don't know like something big like Drake or something like that but also like underground like 36 like 3-6 mafia like OG like Memphis demo Houston stuff, but also like find the middle metal,

harsh stuff like harsh noise or whatever. And trying to find that was like insane. It was like the hard, it was so hard trying to carve. You know how like carving a record where you could hear everything is, but then also it has to be more fucked up sounding than anything else that's coming out. I failed. Yeah. You know, I said.

Why you? Yeah. So like. The author of it all. So, yeah, I mean, more or less, like, that was a pain to mix because it was like, I really was, it was more of like science at that point where I'm like, how can I get this all to like fuck, but also be hard and also come like, digestible to people to that kind of audience. To people, yeah, who like rap or like SoundCloud rap or whatever. It's like it wasn't easy at all. And when we were done, we felt like we had crossed like.

mountains together, you know what I mean, both of us. And like, I really love them for trusting me with all that. Because it was a lot of, it was a fucking lot of work from like putting a whole full live like sessions of like Kales, drums and like guitars and stuff, condensing it and trying to fit it into like a ton of like rap, rap stuff and like make it work. That was the hardest, I would say for sure. And it was like the most rewarding in more. more ways than one.

Great answer. What do you got? I don't have anything that brutal. And honestly, the recent living weapon record was only hard because they had a very specific vision in their brains. And also severe, I'm sorry, Jeremy, severe demoitis. Oh, yeah. Like, to the rough mix. Like, and the rough mix was almost the mix.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was like, nah, this ain't it. That happens, man. Yeah, so I was battling both things. And there was like a turning point where it hit, we hit like a magic frequency. Yeah. Like something hit the mix right. And they were like, all right.

Yeah. We're almost there. You gotta get, and when you get there, it feels good. Yeah, I agree. I was like, this is a relief. This is slamming now. And I know, we talk about that all the time where it'll be like, what if this was a little different? My other answer.

Is working with me ever? Is the last God's hate record? Just because it was like, we were, we were just, he had a specific vision, but also, like, it battled everything I ever like. Yeah, yeah. Like, I like, I really like the most natural sounding shit. And he's like, just make it sound good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, well, fuck.

That's tough. I mean, it goes back to what we were saying earlier about being your tastes and a producer. Yeah. And then also dealing with your brother also, like, not one pissing. That's the thing. I have it the hardest because I'm not going to work with anybody else, you know, and it's just what it is. And so I got to meet this very specific brain that I'm related to. Yeah.

Especially with that record because it was so. Well, it was do or die. It was do or die. And it was like, I spent so much time on that individually that I think you were like, all right. And there was a big time gap. So it's like hard to care a year later. Yeah. Yeah.

That's true. A year and a half. I would say the living weapon stuff is impressive for sure. I agree. I think it's your right to say it's probably like a tough. It was tough but rewarding. Amazing outcome. That's why.

I literally love the record. It's probably my favorite mix of the year. It's awesome. Awesome. What is to both of you? I have questions for you, the unit of the production unit now. Let's do it. What is perfect production to you?

What do you think is the record you? use as a reference goal the most. You want me to go first? If you got it. I don't have a record in general, but I will name some, but I also say that there's many facets. It's about... I have those specifically as well. Okay.

So give me overall. Okay. Overall, perfect. Are we talking like genre rise or we're talking like in heavier stuff? Heavy music, perfect sounding record. There's like, not a lot. you know what I mean? Yeah.

So you know when you hear them, you know? Yeah. I think like, I think a lot of, there isn't, there's just not one. There's so, I'm like, I've, I've scanned like 50 in my head that I love. There's no one that takes, I might have one that may be a little scratch. Go ahead.

Death human. Well, that was one that came through my, that I had it all. Shout out to Scott Burns. Big SB, the goat of all goats. And I think that that one is. is perfect for sure guitar drum feel drum sound every drum performance performance the weight of it's heavy a lot of stuff he did is was perfect he was the he was the blueprint he's the greatest of all top blue brother goat and um but i think like also to be honest roots by subalturro to me

sounds perfect like it's i like the recording more than i like the record it's clean yeah but it's also like it has like the spirit in it that it's dirty it grew so much by that time and with that record that it was like prophetic of what it needed to be before they knew what it needed to be which is like the guitar tones fucked yeah everything's crazy and it sounds crystal clear i do love that record that's also another record that i heard when i was a kid that i was like what the fuck like why is this so crazy like it's like everything's crazy about it's like everything's crazy about it so it was it was both a product of its time and ahead of its time that's for that's for heavy okay i think the best maybe the best produced and i know that you'll maybe agree with me

this would probably be rumors like oh that's like i know we're big fleetwood mac heads here and i think that's that might be the most and that's not even my i don't even my i don't even think it's my favorite flea wood mac record or like maybe not even the best in my opinion but i'm not trying to just be crazy here. My thing about it is that it is a singular piece of art that can't be replicated. No. Because it was recorded in such a fucked up way.

It's so hateful. It's so emotional. Lindsay Buckingham's right hand. Lindsay Buckingham's left hand. Everything is crazy. Everything is crazy about it. But it's also just the fluffiness of certain things. And any

sound system, like there would be times when I was going into big live sound situations where people test the sound systems. It's always fucking deaf tones. It's like something or like something weird or something. Like I feel like it's just a show for the sound guy. Like I don't have a chance to be the guy, so I'm going to be the guy. But, and that, because I don't really think it matters if you've listened to the pyramid.

But I would always listen to the rumors. And every time it came on in any room in the world, it was like, really, like this hits. is the perfect. So that would be for the great answer. On the other answer. Great answer. Okay.

Death human flew with mac rumors. Easy. Cool. All right. What is? And roots as well. Roots, yeah.

What is the best drum sound of all time? Heavy record. There's a few of them that are really good. I kind of really love Cowboys from hell. Like,

I don't even listen to Pantera. So unique. You're waiting for this. Yeah. I don't even listen to Pantera that much anymore like really but like i i think like something came on somewhere where i was like damn i was like that fucking drum sound sounds crazy it changed the world it's really crazy it's one of one and that's what i think that's why that's a great show the amount of reverb on the kick is

crazy they they put like they they sent everything into another room that they weren't even playing in and recorded that room on top of everything so it's like terry date uh is a fantastic and Andy Wallace didn't mix that did he maybe he was so I don't think like a million things like never mind goaded yeah he worked a layer KSAD like a bunch of stuff so but I think that might be an amazing uh drum sound and also cynic had some pretty insane drum sounds if we're talking weird we're just talking about Scott Burns yeah um But, you know, Cowboys from Hell, like, even if you do like them or you don't like them, you just want to hear a good drum sound, that one is, like, perfect.

It's kind of like peak 80s metal, like perfected in the 90s. And then they're like, all right, take all the rules. In a different context, yeah. Yeah. It is, if you try to do that, you're doing that. Or somebody goes, oh, you're doing Cowboys from Hellstrom. That's the maximum it can be. Yeah.

Dr. Phil Gooden by Molly Crew and the Black album by Metallica also are really good. Black album was under the other. Bob Rock also changed the way drums get on a record. I don't chase that kind of stuff ever, but if we're just talking about appreciating. Yeah, that's what's all about. Yeah, that's what's all about. Yeah. My thing is that you can't get, you can't aim for a drum sound so much as work around the drummer that you're before.

Yeah. You can't, it's kind of hard to do both. Exactly. You kind of got to tailor everything. Taylor. Hey. Everything. What's the best drum sound? I'm gonna go the opposite of that and hit neurosis times of grace. Yeah. What are you gonna do? Literal opposite of that. It's just the room. Yeah. He might not have the snare mic. No snare mic. No snare mic. No Tom's mic. It's fucking incredible. Yeah. How did he do it, man? RIP. No one will ever. Who recorded the

the record that's albini albany okay yeah he there go a ton of good shit yeah yeah ton of good and the most punk you know the most the most the most integrity never took points on anything should have probably taken points on nirvana though big time everyone agrees yeah what is the best guitar tone ever recorded i don't want to say metallica but i think metallica did have some great because we keep bringing up italica they did have some great benchmark for reasons yeah when i see this amp here on my reminds me the Mesa reminds me of some great guitar tones, but like in modern times, those tones,

I mean, they stand the test of time, but there's stuff that I like a lot more. So I want to be on with the hard lor crowd, but to be honest, I want to hear the art. I'm just going to give you what I think. When I think of, like, crazy guitar tones and that I could just listen to the guitar tone and phase out everything else

and just be like, damn, that's sick. Docking. George Lynch has a ton, like, some of the hardest, like, you hear them play a power chord up high here, just two little strings, and the A string. It's not lowly tuned, and it just sounds like earth-shattering and everything is, like, perfect. I think they might have that great, like,

I'll say, like, Cool, cool, sig guitar. Yeah. The, the Comacazi, yeah. I would say, like, even more specifically, if we're talking specific albums, I would say, like, tooth and nail is a really good one,

and check out the song, Kiss of Death also has an amazing guitar tone, you know. But I don't want to go too crazy and get too out of the horror universe. Who cares about the universe? I want, this is the Arthur brain. Thank you.

Our amp tech is Dawkins filling. Where is it? Greg Leon. Where is he? He lives down the street. Let's go now. He also has a bunch of Van Halen's amps

in his studio. Van Halen is the prototype for high-gain stuff. The godfather of high-gain amplification. He said, can you put more? Yes. Please. More.

What is? And take your time. The heaviest record ever reported. That's tough. Heavy is also just, you know, subjective. I want that I'm looking for your qualified subjectivity. I know it. You know yours?

No, I know yours. Oh, no, you're not. I know ours. You go first. I think it's Camas, nice fall. Well, that was the first thing that in my mind. I'm going to give you that. I mean, it really is.

And it's like almost everything. It's a perfect record. It's all hard. It's so hard. I don't know what they did. You know, I'm friends. with lay if i've worked with them to some extent and i just never want to punish him and ask him because he's so cool and like i just don't but i really wish i knew what the fuck they were doing

that is definitely it i would say more civil answer that if we're going to be i'd say cause of death oh maybe i've heard so what i heard about the mix is that the guitars are intentionally out of phase that's awesome sick as fuck And I mean, like, they were, they're kind of like Celtic Frost worship lakes on the day. Yeah. Like, I think like, yeah, I think that's that those, those two are really nice ones. I love those answers, guys. It's, and it's rare for a record to have like 45 seconds of vocals and then three minutes of rip.

Yeah. Dude, you know what's awesome about both records you guys just mentioned? Because we have this argument about the distinction between hard and heavy all the time. those are two records that are hard and heavy. They sure are. That's actually a great rare double double. And also two incredible, very different drum sounds. Nightfall has these massive reverby tombs, dude, mountainous tones.

There's verbon. For sure, it's just not the same. It doesn't. It's more 90s. Yeah, it's more natural than 90s. Yeah, it's a fucking snare cracking like a motherfucker. And then just. also the composition of of cause of death like all over it's ridiculous it's just like yeah it sounds like

the one of every song and first draft in the best way yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah fuck it dude yeah sounds great i heard so there i've heard also notes from the label on that record was please put more vocals on like in the songs they were like nah this is also this one just goes with i That's it. That's all you need. Are we not dying? No. I mean, it's literally true.

Very good. Great answers, guys. What is the production end game? Is it Metallica? What is the fucking... I had this thought the other day where it was like, I don't have that anymore. It's just whatever's next.

Nice. Yeah, I mean, that's a great answer. there is a long time where I was trying to, like, under some other people's influences, trying to make my stuff drier and more roomy and more natural because of, like, records, like, back in black. And, like, anything from the 80s that was under the, like, American, the Rick Rubin banner, like... Yeah, he came in and should turn that show.

Yeah, like... Yeah, he really did. Danzig and the dryest kid imaginable and I was just like man like what is right but nothing's right it's always it's just what you like it's always

what you like and what the band wants in general and I mean like the band is really all that matters you and that's why it's good to be a musician first sometimes because you're like for better or for worse you're giving somebody what the fuck they want

and you're giving them guidance too you know well you know I think it's crazy to not be a musician. Yeah. Yeah. But you know that Dockin having your best guitar tone of all time is in large part due to his hands and not really what gear is going on. Of course. Yeah, of course.

That's musicianship. And that somehow equates to tone. Trying to push the docking on everybody. You should. Riffs for days. Well, I'll tell you a crazy endgame to many is re-recording Age of Quarrel. Yes. coming up this has got this got to be one of the scariest things anybody has ever done in their life

well okay so let me start from the top of this story please well this was not um shout out to harley bububb i love you um uh this was not a thing that we were going to do harley's making a movie and he's like yo i cannot get these age of choral songs like i can't get the rights or something to put them in the movie for some reason how can that be i think there was some something where they couldn't clear it they couldn't get the rights of the masters yeah whatever they couldn't clear those songs for the movies and they were working on it but they're like in the meantime can we record these songs and try to make them sound exactly like the record and maybe possibly trick some people which i was like no i don't think anyone can't make sure looking bit but we worked really

hard on it. Thank you. We worked really fucking hard. Harley sounds like JJ. Yeah, it's him singing that is the tell. But dude, he's an I'm not going to go on like a Harley glazing streak, but like he's a lot, he's a misunderstood person and there's a lot of

stories about him that are unfavorable to people. But the thing is, is that he is a good, harder person and a musical he just loves music. He knows. He knows shit that people don't know like he's knows he sits at home same way max does he's he sits at home

and he listens to like the most insane shit like throat singing like uh like free jazz uh and when we were in a car together doing his the first record i did with him like some this song called nights over egypt came on it's it's like a it's just like a rmbi song from the seven these and he fucking lost his mind. He's like, night's over Egypt. There's just something that was on one of my like rip-off lists. Like, this has a part where I could rip- rip-off. We all got that. And it was like,

he was like, you know this shit? I was like, you know this shit? Like, he just knows everything. Like, so working with him is like a joy. And when we do stuff like doing like the age of quarrel, for example, like bringing that up

and when I do that, it's kind of like sacrilegious. And he knows it. He knows that too. but it was out of necessity. It was out necessity. So we're, why not put it out? We started doing it, and we get down,

and he's like, hey, this ain't bad, you know what I mean? This record's pretty good. Keep chipping away at it, and then we're doing the vocals, and this is what I was getting at. Like, his vocals,

his clean vocals, I'm always trying to get him to do more of that shit because he has such a good voice, and we're, like, working on it, and I was like, dude,

this sounds like, the fucking record. Like you're like doing a, he's like, I don't really want to do that, but like we're just trying to get this done. And then we did it. And then we're like,

okay, now, now what? Like we have the stuff for the movie. He was like, let's just do this and see if anyone's interested in it. And then we did.

And I think he's actually, I don't want to be quoted on this, but I'll say, I think he's actually like sharing some of the, the, what do they call that cop? publishing with some of the other guys that

aren't really I saw him say that he's approached the other people that performed on the original record throughout the years to do this with him. Yeah and then he declined. I think that so Doug Holland came to the session. He was there. Okay. He came and he did like a solo. He did his he did his We Got to Know section. He did something else and he was really cool and really like all those guys are crazy they're they're just cool and I'm

I know you've talked to do you have Paris home he was at jeopardy the other man yeah so like I I wish they would all get along but it ain't gonna happen yeah it'll never happen and there's too much and there's too much bad blood and I think he hardly would like it to happen it would be cool but he didn't I think I think maybe they declined me it's I wasn't like in the mix, but Doug was there. Doug was on the record, so it was cool. It was, like, fun to see them reunite after so many years. Did any of the same gear make it to this version?

Yes, actually. Tell me. A rat pedal and a guitar and something else Doug brought with him. Like, some stuff, he just brought it with him. And we're like, you still have all this shit. And, like, I was like, I was like, I'm going to open this up and look at the seat. number all checks out I was like damn one's his

oh six yeah so but yeah some of that stuff was on the head the bass Harley still has like all of his bases I think from back in the day I'm pretty sure the arias um yeah the one bass he has sounds so fucking good it's like

but it's also his like concrete hands that have something to do with the sound he's fingering like most things right no I think he was He's picking? What is he thinking? He'll do a pick with no pick. Yeah, he does that.

Sick as hell. Yeah, he doesn't need it. But he's got a great tone. I don't want to glaze too much. I do love the guy. But you'd look at this as a positive experience. Yeah, I thought it was good. I mean, obviously I was like, I don't know, man.

Because, like, people really worship the shit. But he kind of had the same attitude that, Dwid had with like doing integrity stuff. He was like, yeah, I know people are going to be like fuck this, but some people who've never heard the band before might be like, hey, this is cool. But that had a very specific purpose, right? What?

The integrity stuff? The integrity stuff was, I mean, he just wanted to, he didn't read, one thing was re-recorded, right? Yeah. The drums? Yeah. That sounds like that. Get one of the guys out of there.

Yes, allegedly. So, but yeah, that was, like, doing that stuff, he was like, for the other remixes. I know he's done, like, a couple remixes. Like, I think he just wants, like, to expose a band that should be exposed to younger people, obviously, now. And, like, doing that as a way of doing it. And, like, I know I've heard, like, when I was younger,

I heard like re-recordings of some bands where I was like, oh, like this is crazy. We're like remixes and remixes. Like, oh, this sounds like way better now, but you just don't know. You don't have taste when you're younger. You're just consuming everything. I think there's one,

there's two full re-recordings I can think of that I genuinely love. Suicidal, still psycho after all these years. Yeah, I have been. Fucking unreal. Amazing. And then anthrax, greater of two evils. I've never heard that

Dude Yeah, where's that one? It's with John Bush singing Okay, John Bush is amazing It is unreal The Indians pit On this version That riff is already hard to sell

Dude, they slow it down Oh hey now It goes Gathe kudan kudan It is insane I love it And you can only find it on YouTube So go check it out

What? I'm going right now I don't know We're headed there That was Tim Droll's idea Shout up Tim You like touring Arthur? Yes

Yes and now. Talk to me. I think that I do like seeing things. And I'm one of those people now that makes itineraries for myself. Like I'll get up, I won't sleep. I'll get up and go somewhere and get some good food and shit like that. Or like get into trouble or do something like, you know, like try and find, if I'm in Europe, try and find some medicinal marijuana.

That's why I'm in trouble. recreational stuff and or like go like see something like how many times i live in philadelphia or i lived in philadelphia you've seen them steps i've seen steps i've never seen the liberty bill don't know are you serious yeah dude it's pretty lit i've been there i'm sure you know i'm just saying like it stuff like that happens and then you're on tour and you're like in your head you're like we're not going to see fucking big ben like who the fuck wants to see big ben like you're because you're too cool you're And then you go and you're like, holy shit. I missed out on Big Ben.

Time was created. I've been to London like 20 times. I've never seen Big Ben. Yeah. You know, like, just shit like that. I like to do stuff like that now. And I love gigging. And I actually love fans and stuff like that.

But I also like being, uh, working on stuff at home. And obviously the, the, the, the, the, what everyone like, spend time with the fan. And like, seeing, you know, not be. being miserable of the things that touring brings. When you're young and you're touring, and there's so many good stories from tour, you know. Yeah, you got one for me. I got some stories from tour.

I'm trying to think of something funny. I mean, I've talked, can I bring up one that I've talked about before since we're bringing up recreation? I've talked about this a couple of times before. There was a time in Germany where on the power trip tour we got pulled over and we had struggled so hard to find some weed in like italy and we got it and we hadn't had it for days and we got a crazy amount we're just going to chill and go uh go like rest of the tour we're fine but we got pulled over immediately so it wasn't yours austria and

everyone's asleep bane was the other band that was on the tour and they drove right past us like and we're like sitting there and everyone's like wait are you fucking serious there's dogs coming up to the car right now and we just start feeding ourselves everybody takes

them they come up and as they're coming up we're like okay we're done we ate all we ate this insane amount of stuff we had a month supply and then this and then this dude named Scott who was in the opening band he's like

there's more and the guy's opening the door I pull out a McDonald's hamburger that was just right there that I was like starting to eat and I put all the weed in the hamburger and I just close mush it together and they're like okay get the fuck out and whatever blah blah blah

and I like grab the hamburger like don't grab anything I was like dude I'm starving if we're gonna be here for a while and he's like all right whatever have the hamburger So I'm sitting there eating the hamburger. It's like probably weed in my teeth and stuff. I'm just like, we're all sitting there. And I don't know if you know who Hood is. Yeah, of course.

He's like being as cool as possible and like making fun of the cops' cars. He's like, why does that guy have like a BMW and you have like a Pujo or whatever? You know, like, and they're just like just distracting. I'm just like casually eating. and I slammed like a lot. And they didn't find shit and we kept moving

and we didn't stay right. Everybody slept good. What happened after that? They were just, they were fucking with us for a while. With you? Oh, well, nothing really happens. Like, it, because it needs to be heated

to a certain temperature to release the effects. But you do get a body experience. Euphoria? I was, my stomach was hurting because there were a lot of stems in there. They were poking around. So that happened. And, you know, that was pretty much it.

I mean, they did mess with us for a while afterwards. They actually put a bag of heroin on one of the people. And they're like, don't worry. We're just putting this on you to train the dog. And we're like, no, no, no, you're not doing that. But they did anyway. They've, like, forced us. And the dog couldn't even find this.

This is Italy? This fucking dog knows Austria. Right outside of Italy. What the fuck, man. Stupid dog. Could not figure it out. Stupid cops, whatever. Stupid cops.

No shoutouts. Yeah, zero shoutouts. Shout out Levinol. Yeah, shout out to Levinol. You know? But that's like one of my favorite ones. There's video footage, but it's just so funny. And when I saw the video footage, I was like,

this really unfolded like a dude where's my car movie or something, you know. Amazing. Do you prefer making records over playing live? I know you like the record process, right? Yeah, I do. You like to play. I like to play anything but drums or vocals. Yeah, so I like to play guitar and bass.

I do like making records. Yeah. I have a thing where it's like when you're making a record, you feel like you're part of the band. You're like, you know, this is, I'm part of this band. These guys, we can go anywhere together. We're part of the crew. But then when you're done, you're like, all right,

I'm still part of the band, but I'm not fucking going on tour with you guys. I'm not dealing with your bullshit. I'm not dealing with the issues. I just get all the good parts, the camarides, the camaraderie, the journey, and then we're moving on the next thing. And we're just, you know, like you make friends for life doing this kind of stuff. Because it does feel like you're going through a lot together, and you learn things from each other every day.

I do like doing that stuff more than playing, I think. There was a time that I felt the other way, but it's just super rewarding. I like working with people. I like making people happy. That's like my favorite thing. It's just when somebody's like, dude, you save the record, you taught us something, whatever. That's like fucking awesome. Not to be positive.

No, be positive. Just on being positive. I'm just saying, it's the most positive thing I'm going to say. What would Hoodrack say? He likes you today. You know, Hoodrack only ate chicken tenders for like 20. Popcorn. Six years.

I think everybody who's ever met him. Yeah, that's like this. That's why I say he's a freak. Yeah. We're like. Has he moved on from that? He started drinking jamba juice. for a while and he was like this is healthy i was like i don't know there might be a lot of sugar

you're getting the or dream machine it's juice man it's gotta be good jama juice but i would you know legend shut out shout out arthur you like eating eating you know it man let's talk about it you know about it what are you into let me let me let me rewind a little bit i think it was kind of weird that on your fast food tier list you didn't include peteries see pteris is really You think so? It's so regional. But is that one of the rules? And I only just...

It's got to be on the freeway... It's not everybody knows about it. You hang out with guys from Texas all day. That's true. I only recently tried Pete Terris. Okay. Fantastic.

Yeah. Shout to Jason Tarpe. I've promised Tarpe that I would bring this up because I was just in Texas. I'm a fan. Okay. A tier. P. Teris, A tier.

I think that I'm trying to remember what your list was like if we're just talking about fast food I just been thinking about this for you yeah I didn't think about break it down I think I think that culvers is kind of trash is one I don't think it's nearly as good as both overrated overrated they don't put salt on their fucking burgers it just tastes like butter and bread and it's like it's literally butter and just slides I don't hate it no because they had the cheese curds too and I like that but if you yeah I would say I would say like fast food why

I think your list was pretty solid. I just didn't like that P. Terry's wasn't included. I love P. Terries, but to me it was like a, that's like a regional restaurant. Yeah. And like even having Taco Bell up in the top, was it was Taco Bell in the Nass Ter? Yeah, that's like, that's great. Even living in California, shout out to beer and tacos. Sal some beer.

Sal some beer, sorry. Taco Bell is my wife's favorite food. It's good. So I had it last night. Yeah. So it's one of the two things. I have down the street. It's just great.

Food-wise, my favorite food is just like mostly Lebanese food, Indian food. Shout out Lebanon. Dude, how long are you in town? Town? Yeah. Today. You leaving tomorrow? I got to the studio.

I could have blown your mind within Indian food. I'll go. I got six hours. Tell me where to go. If you can't come with me, I'll go alone. Okay. I will write you. I'll write you.

Okay. And I'll write. Law Merge. Studio City. I'm not. Yeah, keep me. I think that food-wise, I'm just, I really love, there's not anything that I won't. Either just, that's, that's my love language.

That's what I grew, like, grew up. And my parents have a Lebanese restaurant deli. And I've actually still work there from time to time. You could find me making a falafel or a shawarma. And I take pride in that shit also. If I ever couldn't. I need a bite. No.

Listen, anytime, I'll, I got it. Where is it? It's in, I'm not going to give it a plug. It is in Pennsylvania. You're not going to give it a plug? I'm not going to give it a plug. Come on. You don't want to put your parents on?

They'll go. What, are they doing fine? They're doing good. They're doing. I don't go. I don't want people. You don't want to docks the Rizeks. Yeah, I don't want to docks the Rizeks.

I do have, I do have a less than, less than savory fan base from every now and then. I like keeping them second. It's because the goat semen shit sounds too good, man. I did wear a good story. We had a very religious lady who helped us out, and I did wear the goat semen hoodie wants, which is like hella offensive. Yeah.

Just art, but it's very offensive. Look up, look up the goat. Just look up goat semen and hit photos and look for the most of stuff. Well, that's going to. Look up the most. No, no, no, no. It's only going to. to bring up one thing. Find the most offensive

thing. She was like, hi, I do. She was, her mind was blown. She's like, don't you love Jesus? I was like, yeah, yeah, of course. I love, this is just a joke. Like in Sopranos where they get veto. He's like, it's a joke. I was like, it's a joke.

You know, like, it was like telling me this. You're going on tour. Yeah. U.S. tour. Yes, yes. What is the one regional restaurant, single place you're most excited to stop that? Well, a lot of them was spread out. You know, like, like, um, Bojangles used to not be anywhere.

It's bow time, baby. Bo's, bo's spread out. Um, it's mostly south, but it's kind of in the north now, actually. It's in Quaker town, Pennsylvania. Wow, good for QT. Got it. Coming up. But I do like, I do, I do like that.

Um, I would say Tex-Mex is fucking awesome, obviously. And then when I'm in general. Tex-Mex. Well, there is one cheese in Texas is kind of a chain is really good. Or Texas Barbecue, you can go to the one that is like, oh, that's the touristy one. Go there. Salt Lake, you go there. Yeah, it was good.

And you just fucking have like a buffet of meats that are all delicious. California also has amazing Mexican food, obviously. But I would say that the number one thing. thing that I look forward to being on tour, can I get one of them hot dogs with the bacon wrapped around it? Oh, outside of the venue? And yeah, outside of the parking lot, everything. Like, I love those.

Street dogs. They're telling me that there's some kind of worm or something going on right now. I don't care. Who cares? I already had some last night. Oh, no. I'll eat this hot dog and then the worm will erase it from within me. No, it's still, I just still have had it.

I'm not going to die. I don't mind. I'm not going to be spreading the worm. My only beef is that they're like $12 sometimes. Are they getting expensive? Yeah, they're getting up there. I'll give them 40. I don't give them to fuck.

I'll take Zell, so I'm down. Overpaying for everything. Like that, I will pay anything. I'll give my shoes. I'll take my shoes. Understood. Everything on it. Well, I have two questions for you.

One of them is for both of you. Go ahead. Arthur Rizek. Yes, sir. Can you tell me your top four hardcore records of all time? I was worried you were going to ask me this. That's what I do. Because, you know, there's a lot of.

of when I'm answering this question, I'm not thinking about myself. I'm thinking about my friends roasting me. You know? One of my favorite hard lore episodes was the 2000 hardcore bands, because not because of the content, no offense, more so that it became a epidemic amongst group chats where people were like, can you believe X, Y, and Z, blah, blah, blah.

You know, by the way, the winner is Iron Age, in my opinion. But anyway, they, like, people were freaking out over that. And I don't want to be like, not that anyone's even going to watch this, but if they do, I don't think, did he mention that? Like, he's a fucking poser. But mine are pretty vanilla, honestly.

Give it to me. Weway. Desperer measures. We've already talked about that in no particular order. And then I don't know how to pick between best wishes and age of quarrel. But if we're talking about favorites or best of all time. Favorite. Your top.

Then best wishes. Best wishes. It's a great metal record. Desperate measures. It's a hard. It's hard. I know. I'm just Josh.

Josh. There's a lot of metal. There's six minutes. There's a lot of songs. Six minutes songs. That's what I like. Eight songs. I was listening to it on the way here.

To get hyped for. I love it. I was like, I'm going to listen to this. The song, age of quarrel. The song Age of Choir. Harder, Mosh, then a Buckle, that is so crazy. drum tester.

Amazing. If they go snare, I go, bra, gag, got, it is like epic metal.

Yeah. So we'll say best wishes, desperate measures, gizem, sonic crime therapy. It's something I

listen to on a weekly basis or something, you know, put in the best use of delay on vocals of all time. Extreme.

Amazing. The best. And for me, something like that is something I really enjoy. And, I mean, just in favorite, if we're talking favorites, I really love humanity as the devil. And everything integrity's ever done is incredible. And like the use of noise, which side warfare, obviously.

Head of its time. And they got it right the first time. Yeah. And that was something that was like, again, like later in my life where I'd already been through all, this stuff and I heard that I was like damn this is kind of perfect yeah it's hard and it's abrasive and the noise aspect of it is great and I think that's that's pretty like pretty much it from like my goats like those are things I still listen to listen to like if we're on tour in

Germany like eternal champion and we're like we got to get like hyped I'll fucking throw on like ball hug or bow or something just give another bow reference bolly bolly bolly the breakdown Yeah. And that song just comes out and I read, he goes, Ha, ha, ha, ha. That record has a lot of that of like, oh, this song is all. What the fuck this mosh part is Chris? Stand for being this beautiful song into the most insane fit.

Everything. Perfect. Everything on that record. That's like a perfect. No skipping. Agreed. And it's an opus. There's these long songs.

It makes sense that it connected with you. RIP. The Eddie. Big time R&P. And I have one final question. Does he answer this question? He's already answered. Yeah, we've been through it.

Can I hear it real quick? I don't remember. Okay, next question. Okay. And I want to know both of your, as, you know, two of my favorite engineers to ever live, your four favorite recording engineers. I have a, I definitely have a, like, what's the, what's the mountain cold? Mount Rushmore.

Mount Rushmore of like metal engineers. We're talking engineers. General. Yeah. Whatever you want. No, whatever you want. I think like, so I would say first would be Martin Birch. Martin Birch did Iron Maiden, but also did Deep Purple, also did Fleetwood Mac,

but the OG Fleetwood Mac, Peter Green, maybe the first heavy metal ever recorded then play on. It's like, wow. Like, that's my favorite Flew of Mac record, too, by the way. Wow. I listen. I think it might be the best one also. If you don't... Great answer.

If you guys don't fuck with it, then play on, listen to the beginning of heavy metal, green monolicee. It's just fucking amazing. I mean, everyone just named is, that's what I'm saying. Everyone ripped them off. Everything you just mentioned is, like, still a reference note in every genre of music production. Sean wanted to cover Green Manalishi two weeks ago. Black Sabbath.

Dio year. Wishbone Ash, Martin Birch, is hands down. He did all Iron Man. He was like, hands down, I think the best metal producer. He did all Dio years? Not Dhumanizer.

Not Dhumanizer. And that guy actually is on my list. Let's skip to him. Reinhold Mac. This is a German producer, engineer that did like dehumanizer. But isn't even known for it. That should have been on best reporting.

Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, that is perfect recording. Perfect recording. Drum sound, guitar, guitar, and everything's perfect. Yeah. And he did,

he did so much crazy shit, but he also invented triggering with Donna Summer. He did like George, you know, Georgio Moroder, the,

the synth dude, the Italian synth dude. He did Donna Summer, Georgie and Marour and invented triggering by basically the trick with a sine wave.

You hit the kick and a gate opens up. and it plays this that makes everything hit fucking they were they were pitting to Donna summer wow because of Reinhold Mac he's like goaded in my opinion but he also did queen um just tons of shit uh Scott Burns should we be going back and forth he's on mine should we go back first no he'll be yours I thought that Scott Burns I mean he needs no but I love him to death and he also is a good person and the most insanely humble for what he did like you try and I've tried I've tried the

link because I met him because of Taylor in a way we were searching for the human board I wanted it I wanted to buy a board I was not using a board I wanted a board and we found it together Taylor found it the the actual model and I had been emailing Scott Burns about it ran like we weren't we weren't we didn't know each other he was just nice i got his email and then we figured it out and then we ended up hanging out and he's like so humble and just he's like you ask him like well what do you think of this what do you think of that he's like i don't know man it was just there you know all these great bands they came to me i'm just a lucky i'm like no dude

fuck that there's no way there's no stinkers no he also did one of my favorite bands California Agent Steel who are basically like Power Metal Chrome Mags essentially about aliens which leads me to my shout out Juan of the Dead who plays in Body Count

who's in Agent Steel too to the last one Bill Matoir who's also a California guy who did trouble but also like Syrithongal Sacred Reich warlord like all these

power metal bands. And this is like trouble is like what we're talking about nightfall being perfect. Trouble. Perfection. Nightfall is they're just going please give us the trouble. Yeah, literally. Literally like trouble is like it's like a blueprint for anything that ever happened after like cathedral. Like everything is like they just were so fucking evil without being really. Inspired everything that inspired everything. Exactly. So and Bill Matoir was the head. He also did like, I think he did Halloween. too and like a bunch of early slaves and like all kinds of other shit but Bill mottoyer is still around amazing in his uh more riper years he still just did a mix for a new sacred rite record and I heard it I was like dude this is fucking awesome like this

guy's a god it's those years man got it just throw it up to him love it a lot of other people I would mention like I love I love Ross Ross Robinson like but But I'm talking about like, you know, and like some of the people we've mentioned in the interview, Albany and like Andy Wallace, all those guys are great. But for me, for Arthur, when I'm thinking about like having made Arthur, fate's warning also. Bill Metori did Fates Warning. Maybe some of the hard, some of the hard lore listeners don't listen to Fates Warning. But, dude, that's like my perfect record, Awaken the Guardian. I like cry to that record still.

and Bill Notori did that and I just think that he's like an unsung god in the metal production world Excellent answers Taylor I can't wait to hear yours Let's go Burns obviously burns The GO

The OG of scooping the guitars more You know Making you feel it instead of just hearing it Exhorter Yeah that's I mean The law is the most scoop guitars Dude the right The drummer of Exhorter

order's right hand on Slaughter in the Vatican is perhaps the greatest ride performance. Absolutely. It's crazy. There's no question in that. On stop. No question of that. Albany. And what's weird is for me, I listen to Albany stuff from an engineer standpoint because I'm not like the biggest Jesus lizard guy on earth.

Yeah. But I do love neurosis and he like changed neurosis in a crazy way. the sonics you're you're yeah well you're going engineer yeah no i won't go too far down the line but he also was a he also did noise and industrial bands too and was like fucking all his like some of stuff he didn't talk about his bands because they fucked yeah yeah but he did like some he did so much crazy shit in those in those genres that that people don't even know like dude he did that you know so yeah he's he's a wild one and just an innovator and and a different type of thinker for sure he also had a very similar base of integrity that you have

where it's just like you're hiring me to do this so i'm gonna do this yeah sort sort i take a lot from and there's things he said in interviews where i just like resonated with a lot where it's just kind of like he's like i'm i'm here to make something for you yeah i'm not in your band yeah so uh for sure him for for sure burns i really like blue i learned everything from him just being around him and his workflow and how he does guitars and approaches records. His stuff always sounds great. It sounds amazing. It's another thing where like half the time I'm listening to a record, I'm listening to it from the recording.

You're doing that 100% of time. I'm doing that 100% of time. But like, no, because I'm putting on old stuff. I'm not really thinking about that. I'm just hearing dope shit. Because everything was sounded dope. Everything sounded dope. I do, I do like feel like I like older sounding things a lot more.

Yeah. I'm going to go with a weird one, and I don't even know his name, but he did. He engineered CLC Blind and Bruehl Truth Extreme Conditions. Oh, my God. And he didn't produce them because there's a, Colin Richardson is the producer of Bruele Truth. And he, I don't know who did Blind, but this dude definitely engineered both of those. and those blind is like the best drum sound that's a good that's a good record in general i think it sounds that record does sound sounds unbelievable there's fucking 10 guitar tracks all the time yeah uh that's a hard

heavy record is clean my wounds on blind no that's the next that's the next deliverance yeah yeah but yeah that blind is like a great produced it's insane the guitar tones are insane uh damn for all time intro come on uh and then extreme conditions to me it was like like benchmark grind like that's yeah napalm death but then there was brutal truth that was the definition there are napalm there there are a napalm death for sure as yanks yes bloody yanks as as people born in late you got to find that guy whoever he is he did a tape up interview oh okay yeah so that that's how i there is a chance that he didn't engineer brutal truth but i know no he did i'm pretty sure he did and they're definitely from the same studio

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. They sound similar. That's the thing is you can hear that. You can hear the room. It's got like a wood room. Yeah.

And those are two perfect sounding records. Unbelievable. Dude, the brutal truth, Extreme Conditions, guitar tone. Well, it's up there. That's deep chug. Do I have permission to quickly shout out

some non-metal guys real quick? Yeah, hit it. Because there's some like innovators like Phil Specter, obviously. He did like Beatles and like a ton of other shit. But his thought of putting 10 of everything on every record is my also like I love that uh Glenn Johns who is also with him on the Beatles and Glenn Johns is like the goad of of just do less engineering yeah like he did like

Zeppelin like everything you can't even like you can't even like get a sense of what he did because his shit's so like first got a point of 57 at something literally like fucking amazing guy and George Martin also did the Beatles I'm not even like a huge Beatles head but like my huge Beatles production has the source of modern music the source changed everything and Joe meek who is like the guy who invented like a ton of recording techniques that Phil Specter did he's he was like insane he would kill this landlady oh just for no reason basically he should she was like turned down your shit but he was like a million unreleased like 45s that he did he's like a guy from like the 50s or something like

that but I just thought I would you've probably heard him as in gear Joe meek compressor or something like that but just want to throw out some non-metal stuff just real quick sorry don't you ever apologize me never thank you that was so fun dude don't even get me started come on because we'll just talk about how fun I'll be like do you remember when I answered your question question but tell him your bit the bit you had planned I had made like a trapper keeper of like every hard lore thing like list and I had

made a counter list but I didn't actually like I wanted to I wanted to watch every one and then and then argue stuff you had to argue and it's like that's taking all day it's a whole other episode

it's a gimmick it's another great gimmick but an episode I will we should do yeah I have like a bunch of like lists of ridiculous lists like because you know you guys have like specific lists.

Yeah. Best Blue album on a rainy but rainy but rainy but cold. Yeah,

but then a rainy but sunny day but with lightning That's too many fucking lists. Yeah, it's like I got a lot of lists you know. I got to do a lot like the best non-metal guitar player. You got best non-metal guitar player

Adrian Blue. Who? Adrian Blue. Who's Adrian Blue? Who's Adrian? I don't think I know Adrian Blue. 80s Crimson. Oh.

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, fair, fair. That's metal, dude. King Crimson is the 80s, 80s, not metal. 90s, what do you got? What do you got? John Mayer, Prince. Prince. John Mayer is this one that he's really good.

Dude, he's goaded. But I'm in Iowa. That's a, I'd say like, Robin Guthrie from the Cocktoot twins and from the Smith's. Dude, Johnny Marr. Johnny Marr. Dude, that's the god. Johnny Meyer.

That's like what you can. And steel for metal stuff. Oh, my God. Or someone that you guys mentioned a lot of episodes, Elliot Smith. Yeah, go to. It's like one of my favorite. All around.

Performer. So I'm like tons of lists. I like this just mean and stuff. We'll do another episode about that sometime. That was fun. I'll do that. Well, thank you for joining us. Anything else?

Anything else you say? Goodbye. Do you have a sign out? A sign off? Yeah, do you want to leave a final message to your camera here? Thank you, Colin and Taylor. This was very fun.

I'm now not just a fan, but I'm someone who's been on the show. We love you, Arthur. Love you guys. You're the man. My man. Arthur Rizick, truly, just genuinely one of the greats. And many are saying this. We've been saying this for years now.

Thank you for having me. Thanks for joining us. We appreciate you. And check out all of Arthur's stuff. Listen to every record he's ever worked on. Listen to every band he's ever been in. And go see Cold World soon, because they're surely playing near you. near you sometime this year perhaps tonight tonight all right but you can we'll see you next week

bye bye