HardLore - Bo & Colin Interview Each Other (In Loving Memory of Bo Lueders)

Episode Date: April 9, 2026

On April 2nd, 2026, the world lost Bo, and I lost my best friend. I will have much more to say over time... But this episode was something that, upon time of recording (January, 2026), we decided was too intimate to post. We reviewed the initial cut (thank you Steven), and feared that once something so personal was out there, we couldn't ever take it back. We decided to store it and save it for off chance that we might some day feel comfortable posting it. That day sadly came much sooner than either of us ever expected... This conversation, that I am now so thankful for, is a thorough look into our lives before & during the show. We came up with something like 100-150 questions before narrowing it down to this intimate conversation wherein we interviewed each other for the first, and last time. The goal was not only to get to know each other in ways we didn't, but share something new and unique with you all. Now, all things considered, it is an absolute miracle. I expected going back through this to be painful and impossible, and it turned out to be some of the only comfort I've found since his passing. Suddenly he was here, back in the room with me, as he now is with all of you. I am writing this in haste basically on the way to his memorial, so I will let him speak for himself here now. For Bo, Forever. _______________ 00:00:00 - Start 00:05:32 - Where were we born? 00:14:18 - Who had the most influence on us? 00:19:46 - Chris Mills 00:21:47 - What did we learn early about money and survival? 00:27:11 - Childhood memories that shaped us 00:34:10 - What kind of kids were we? 00:44:50 - What was expected of us growing up? 00:53:19 - When did you first feel misunderstood? 01:05:12 - Our first bands and first shows 01:11:09 - When did we first feel like ourselves? 01:16:56 - Did we feel like we belonged anywhere? 01:21:45 - Anger, sadness & anxiety 01:28:43 - When did we know we wanted something more than normal life? 01:32:20 - What were our first escapes? 01:36:17 - Mistakes that taught us the most 01:38:10 - Who were you trying to impress? 01:40:55 - What did music give you that regular life didn't? 01:41:38 - First real jobs, and what they taught us 01:56:20 - What did failure look like to you? 2:00:15 - What part of adulthood do we feel unprepared for? 2:05:24 - When did you first feel competent at something? 2:07:36 - Do we feel any guilt about HardLore? 2:10:58 - When did we first feel this could work? 2:12:03 - What part of HardLore came naturally/unnaturally? 2:16:15 - What almost stopped HardLore early on? 2:17:21 - Honest first impressions of each other 2:20:41 - What do people get wrong about our dynamic? 2:22:31 - What we learn about ourselves through each other? 2:25:18 - What part of the show don't we talk about? 2:27:19 - Public perception 2:29:16 - How do you deal with criticism? 2:31:16 - What do we believe in more strongly now than ever? 2:32:43 - What responsibility do we feel towards our audience? 2:33:11 - What do you hope outlives you, what scares you the most about being remembered? 2:35:11 - What would feel incomplete if it ended now?  HardLore: A Knotfest Series, Fueled by Monster EnergyEdited by Steven Grise • Title sequence by Nicholas MarzlufJoin the HARDLORE PATREON to watch every single weekly episode early and ad-free, alongside exclusive monthly episodes.Join the HARDLORE DISCORD for community discussions and to participate in our future Q&A episodes.FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER, SPOTIFY, APPLEFOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAMFOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER For sponsorship opportunities, email us! [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello, welcome. It's Hardlord Time. I love you, Bo. This is Take 9, so please forgive me if I have to make it fast to get through it. But our beloved Bo has passed. This has been the most difficult week I've probably ever experienced. I'm sure his girlfriend Taylor, Chris James, his mom, Wendy, all of his friends. appreciate the outpouring of love and support more than you'll ever know all the kind words and the stories you've shared I've read them all I'm sorry if I can't respond everything really does come in waves you experience every human emotion at once but the memory of Bo is most important and that memory to all of you should be the kind, gentle, sensitive person you're about to experience

over the next two and a half hours. A few months ago, after recording eight all-time bangers in a row, we thought, how do we keep this streak going? And that resulted in this idea of, like, what if we interview each other

and write up all these... We wrote like 150 questions together and then narrowed it down to these. And some of them we were like, fuck, this is going to be hard to answer, but that's what seemed different and exciting about it. And then we watched it, and we're like, oh my God, what have we done?

Once this is out there, it's like, okay, everybody knows all these things about us, and maybe they don't need to. so we decided to scrap it temporarily or hold it until the time felt right. But now I watched it back on Friday in a state of like sheer isolation of just like if I'm not productive, I'll explode. And I really just felt like he was in the room. and it brought me a sense of comfort that I hope it brings you all and that you get to experience this different side of bow and learn all these things that ultimately he did want to share

and I did want to share but just maybe not yet and it gets dark at times especially considering now. So, you know, user beware, but it is so, I'm so grateful that this exists now. Even just for

informational purposes, you know, it brought me comfort now. And I'm going to watch it again because I just want to hang out with my friend again. So. Enjoy. Hello, welcome.

It's Hardlord Time. How you doing, Bo? I'm doing great. Where are we? We're in a strange, alternate dimension of my living room. Because we're going to do something very special today. You know, we ask other people questions every week on this show.

We get these chronological details, documentation of your favorite artists' entire lives, their entire discographies. We figured we'd do something a little different this week. We're going to interview each other so that when we die, you can reference this on our wikipedias to tell the full story of just who we are, you know, what we're all about. We're starting with the men in the mirror. Exactly. You know?

I'm asking him to change his ways. Them. Yeah, exactly. So here we go. This is me and Boe interviewing each other. Crazy style Just to do it Just to have something out there

Just so you can all get to know It's a little better Because we get the Q&A's We do the Q&As and everything through Patreon And a lot of those at this point are like When are you're gonna have this guy on Where are you're gonna have this guy on When are you're gonna have this guy on

Not really questions That we deliberate over You know and that's more what this is deep So we put together something That we could both answer and maybe not always be comfortable about, but that's when it's the best. So here we go.

Well, where were you born and where did you grow up? I was born in Arlington Heights. You were born in Arlington Heights? Illinois at the Arlington Heights Hospital, November 16, 1987. My mom and dad divorced when I was months old, And then it was just me and mom.

We moved all over the great promised land of DuPage County, Illinois. I think I counted once by the age of 10, we moved nine times kind of a thing. You know, it was rentals. It was lease. 100%. I really feel like I grew up in a town called Bloomingdale. That was when I was like a child. And there was a time where I lived in a townhome with my mom in the basement, my grandmother upstairs, and her mother upstairs.

So four generations in one household. You had a great, great grandma? I had a great grandma. Oh, great grandma. Yes. You knew her well. Gigi. We talked about it earlier.

Gigi. Yeah, it was Gigi. She was cool. She was very, she loved me. I was the, I'm the oldest grandkid on my mom's side. Wow. You had a great living great grandma. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

She outlived my grandmother. Damn. Did I tell the story about when she passed away and how she was like buried? I don't know. Okay, quick one. But this is a true story. It was around Halloween. It was very creepy.

This lady, she had a husband who I never met. He died before I was born. My great-grandfather. He was a doctor. He was a very pretty well-off guy. He was buried and put in a mausoleum. They're Italian. Very traditional Italian.

So he was buried in a mausoleum, and then next to him was the plot for Gigi. Well, my grandmother, Gigi's daughter, Gigi's daughter passed away with cancer when I was like 15, 16. So Gigi gave her the plot and then changed her last Will and Testament to be cremated and to be placed in the mausoleum

in the wall with her husband. So that eventually happened. Gigi passed away. And at her funeral, you know how every family kind of has two sides, right? And mine is there's the Bowen side, which is my mom's and all the immediate family I know. And then the Minetti side, that's the Italian side.

The Minidis, they're a little Stucats, they're a little crazy. And they got her this urn that was kind of big. Think about a mausoleum, it's a square. And then the caskets, concave or whatever. So in that right angle, they wanted to put the urn. Didn't fit. So they had the thing off, the marble was off,

and they couldn't fit her in there. And they were kind of like, well, This is what she wanted. So that side of the family, who they were, they made all the arrangements and everything. They had like the final say. They said, well, open them up. Put her in there. So they pulled my great grandfather out of the wall who had died in the 80s.

Yes. Open up the bottom of the casket. I saw his shoes. And they put her like in between his legs. Sealed them up. And that was just like, wow. Everyone was like, that's beautiful. My mom's side of the family.

The bones were all like, what? It was like October. 29th, you know. I listen to the misfits the whole way there. So that was mom and Gigi and grandma. They all love me. Together at last. Together at last. And then eventually moved to Roselle. And Roselle is where I like, cut your teeth. Cut my teeth, went to high school and everything. And it was Roselle, Illinois. And I moved out of there when I was 18 into the city. How early while you lived there did you realize how close you were to Chicago and how what a beautiful

thriving city it was. Yeah, so I eventually, when my dad came back into the picture after he got clean and everything and of course found God, part of that was hanging out more, which that's a silver lining of obviously. There's a silver lining to using religion

for that reason, in my opinion. And he would take me into the city a lot. My mom didn't like driving. She was a little superstitious, a little stitious. But my dad, but my dad, We would go there's a thing called the Taste of Chicago which is just a big food fest that would happen at the lakefront And he would take me down there and that was some of my earliest memories we go to Cubs games a lot

It was always just like oh, all you have to do is get on the Metra train which is not a subway It's a commuter train and it went right through our town and it goes all over the Chicagoland area and Yeah, that was that was very early on Okay, probably the first show I went into the city for that was like a show was when I was 13th and it was no effects at the House of Blues and that was, we took the train downtown. Wow. Where were you born? Where did you grow up?

I was born in Bristol, Connecticut. That's right. Very old world. Yeah, I'm the first Yank in my whole bloodline. What does that mean? Everybody's Southern except for me. Really? Everybody. Taylor, born in North Carolina. Really?

Aaron, my older brother. Tanna Hill himself? Oh, yeah, T-T-Y. My brother Aaron was born... I don't know, Mississippi, I think. My dad, Mississippi, my mom, Florida. All southern.

Everybody. You're the first Northern. I'm the first Yank. Congratulations. Thank you, man. Feels good. Not an ounce of hate running through my blood. No disrespect to the Southerners.

I love you. You're part of me. I'm from Bristol, Connecticut. You're like family. You're like family to me. Love them all. Except for a few. A big part of my childhood was there.

My family moved to Bristol because ESPN started. He was a big technical engineering. Yeah, yeah. So he was a tech manager, his career. That's cool. Which was great. He traveled a lot.

It was a very unique job to have. He has a very unique skill set to this day that people still pick his brain about. So he's one of the first kind of OG first wave ESPN guys. So ESPN is this new company in 1991. I almost don't want to put the year I was born because the mythos online of me being 83. September 21st, 1991. There you go. And the big reveal.

First I go to Hubble Elementary School. That's kindergarten first grade. Then we moved to West Hartford, Connecticut, for some reason. I think it's because they didn't tell me much during this time. Okay. You know? I was very aloof, very strange kid, as I told you about yesterday, that I won't reveal. Okay.

But I, you know, I was a very odd kid. I stuck to myself. Even though you had two older brothers. Yeah, I mean, Taylor's four years older than me. Which is at that age. Get out of my room. Yeah, yeah, it's significant. And Aaron is 11 years older than me, so he's, I don't even know you.

You know, I'm partying hard as fuck. Yeah. We moved to West Harford, Connecticut when my parents split up. That's when I'm in third grade. So third and fourth grade, I go to a school called Morley Elementary School in West Arford, Connecticut. And then a school called Whiting Lane Elementary School. Shout out to West Harford. Then we'd live in Hartford.

The whole Preacher Man thing happened. I'm sure we'll get into that later. That's a very true story. Bristol, Connecticut, West Harford, Connecticut are where Bristol I was born. West Hartford, I grew up, moved here when I was 12. Which is, I think you kind of, double digits are when you're in the new phase of your life. Truly. Childhood, I always said childhood, Connecticut.

it, formative years, California. I experienced both. Both are a big part of who I am. Interestingly, my dad, when I was that childhood, worked for the Hyatt Company, all the Hyatt Regencies in the Chicago land area, doing AV stuff, tech guy. There you go.

That's an interesting... It's the same game. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, he would set up all the AV stuff for conferences. That's exactly what it is. So if there was a... When you're watching live sports, and they talk about the truck, the guys in the truck.

The truck. Everything's happening from these trucks. Right. My dad would set up the truck. Oh, fast. Dad. Yeah. Much more involved than what my dad was doing.

My dad was a lot of plug and play. But, you know, an interesting similarity where you and I were probably both surrounded by cool tech and like just stuff. And now we are. No interest in it at the time. But now. But the, but the, I mean, we'll talk. We'll get into it. Yeah.

Who had the most influence on you as a kid, positively or negatively? I would say as a kid, as an adult, all around. The answer is Taylor Young. Has to be. My brother. Taylor, I just wanted to be like him. Perfect. You know?

We liked all the same movies, all the same games. I wanted all his action figures. I took all his action figures. he had all the cool comic books he just had he had every interest that I wanted you know now do you think

that never ended do you think that is because you wanted that or do you think that's because he was your older brother and he was right there I think I think I think yeah I mean I don't know that I would end it would have ended up the same at all

had he not been around do you remember something I know you've talked about bands that you found that he didn't show you and you were like was there any hobby you were into that he wasn't that you were like this is me this is my thing I would say wrestling became much more my thing than his pretty fast yeah that makes sense

he got off the train early and I was like this is still going to be my life dad and Taylor and mom but yeah I would say overall without him I the me that is known does not exist. Yeah, even the things that

if I'm around the two of you or just around Taylor or just around you, like whatever the dynamic is, you guys are very similar. Just in a sense of humor, reasoning, the way you analyze it. I'm a little more rational, I think. You know, I think

there's a lot of time where I've got to be like, you can't do that. I'll be like, uh-huh. I'm going to. Yeah, it's a, It's a, it's, he's been, he was my biggest influence and all around and didn't want much to do with me until I was 16. Oh, wow.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's pretty late. Yeah, we weren't particularly close. It was just like. Until I was pretty good at drums. He went. Yeah, he was like, I could use this now. But at first it was, I learned how to play drums on his kit.

whenever he wasn't home. Yeah. Because I was like, I better get this shit. I better hit this China now. It's step problem shit. Straight up. You're sneaking it. Straight up.

I know you touched my drum stick. Yeah. So one day he got home and I was pretty good. And he was like, when the fuck did this happen? He's scumbagged and how. And then... Keep doing that. Yeah.

And then pretty much, Jun, Jun. What about you? Who had the most influence on you? I'm gonna, I'll break it up into the two of childhood and post. Childhood, it was my dad. I loved my dad. My dad and I, he was like my guy because imagine it. Yeah. I saw him once a week.

Yeah. And for that one week, that one visit after school, he'd pick me up with a pop in the car. We'd go to Fuddruckers. Dude. We'd go to Blockbuster in the same parking lot. I can't imagine a better day today. You know what I'm saying? So we'd go to Fudrackers.

We'd rent a game. Yeah. He, it's funny. to explain this he's in this is he's in his 30s maybe late 20s at the time but he had a roommate in a condo his name was rick he was from sturgeon bay wisconsin which is right by green bay and that guy worked at a um funkel land oh pre game stop pre e b funkoland so he would always have the new systems we'd play it he would like set up the little cars remember the electric cars and like he had instruments and that's where that began. He had a stand-up, an upright piano in his condo, a Yamaha,

always had guitars around and was into, my mom loved the who and that's it. My dad loved Michael Jackson. My dad loved Led Zeppelin. My dad liked other stuff. And then there would be like, my mom would take a vacation maybe once a summer. And so I'd spend two weeks with my dad. And he's going to ball out. He would buy me toys. and all the stuff and then I also got two Christmases and we've talked about this before mom killed it on Christmas dad killed it on Christmas interesting so I got pretty spoiled I was definitely the the the only child of a Doris family got the two Christmas thing where people were like lucky and that was true but in hindsight it makes me so sad for my mom because then she's the disciplinary

and she's the one being like no you can't stay up playing NBA jam yeah I just did it It was the same dynamic. Yeah. Where it was two parent, separate households, had to go to moms to work, went to dads to play. Yes. Start to resent mom because of it. Love time with dad because you don't see him often.

By the time, music and guitar, he got me in my first guitar when I was 10. It was a white fender strat that I still have. I've talked about this. The next girlfriend of mine in high school gave it to. over COVID contacted me, gave it back to me. Wow. Still happened.

That's cool. I learned every Blink Winniated two song you can imagine on that bad boy. That started to come around, and then skateboarding started to happen around 10. We were living in Roselle when I was 10. And that's when I met the next big influence, which is Chris Mills. Chris Mills is my guy. He's my tailor. He's a year old than me, a grade older than me.

We went to the same middle school and on. and he lived half a mile from me. And one day on the, we had the same bus, and one day on the bus he was like, you play guitar because he was show and tell and I had my guitar with me. And I was like, yeah, it's white, it's Arctic White, Squire. You know, like, I didn't know.

He was an older guy asking me. And he was like, oh, you should come over sometime. I play drums. And that was like how that all started. And this is after you'd already beefed him. So I didn't beef him, but he beefed my friend. Yeah, for mooning him. Another Chris.

Right, right, right. It's well documented. But it's true. Chris Manzara, who's a good guy, Monster Halo player. Wow. He was a beast. Killing spruce. Yeah, he was fucking on one. He was the pistol. But Chris Mills, I very much the same as you and Taylor. Whatever he was into, I wanted to be into.

And he had an older brother who was showing him everything. So whatever Chris was into, I wanted to be into. I wanted to, he was the only drummer in this suburban. And the Lord knows we need him. You know what I mean? One of the most precious resources in the world. Truly. It goes diamond, drummer, emerald?

Yeah, probably. Oil. Oil. And his brother had showed him all the bands, Minor Threat and AFI, which is a huge one. AFI was, Chris wanted to be Adam from AFI, and I wanted to be in a band with Chris. So that was just that. and Adam and Bo you know

and now Chris and I have been in bands together now for 25 years that's better than that that's it what did you learn early about money work or survival dude so my first I know we ran ahead a little bit

I know there's a real job thing which is a different answer than this so my first job period I was 14 I had to get a workers permit I worked at a hot dog stand in Roselle called Bogies. Good dog? No longer there.

Okay, dog. Okay. Snap. Good Snit mall kind of thing. Vienna. Vienna beef. Decent. But not much snap.

Not much snap. The owner, I don't remember his name. It was not bogey. He offered to hire me with this work permit, which I think meant I could work like eight hours a week or something. Something hilarious. And he said, I'll pay you cash under the table. My dad was like, that's great.

but you have to take half of every dollar 50 cents out of every dollar and put it away into savings try to teach me early Did not? Did you about taxes

early maybe or just saving? It did not stick. Savings sucks. But here's the hilarious thing This guy paid me 4.25 an hour. Okay? So if I worked four hours

I made $17. So that means because of my dad I pocketed $8.50 for four hours of scrubbing tables and floors and doing the cash trap. You got to shoot this guy. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I learned that really early lawn that...

Torch and Pitsford? Well, no, just because something pays you doesn't mean it's worth your time. Oh, yeah. I learned that really quickly. Yeah. So that was something. And I also learned that, like, I really quickly was like, well, I'm a kid. I'm 14.

I at least got, you know, four or five years left in the house. I don't need to save anything. You know, that was, I was like, I'm going to eat. Smart. The electricity's going to be on. Yeah, yeah. But there was other stuff along the way. You know, we were, my mom certainly got child support from my dad, but, you know, she,

much like your mom was, like, figuring her stuff out and working various jobs, and I was a total latchkey kid. I was watching myself after school from, like, fourth, third or fourth grade. It's a little fuzzy, but I remember having a little bit. to walk some couch cushion change to town hall and pay the water bill or the electric bill and stuff, you know. And, you know, that's just kind of how it was. But mom absolutely never let me go hungry and always made Christmas dope. Isn't it?

And that's kind of where I'm getting with my answer to this is that my dad, so I, my dad traveled a lot for work. Like what? Very rarely home. Okay. And like that's ultimately what ended their relationship. Because of TV production? He would be gone.

He would be in New Zealand for America's Cup for three months. Holy shit. Yeah. So, but I learned very early. I wasn't like Jamie from Jingle all the way. Like my dad's only working. He doesn't love me. Taylor and I knew he's working because he has to.

And it was like, the the drum set in the garage is there because our dad is working yeah this uh metal gear solid one that he brings me home from japan imported because he's working there for this month is because he's working there that month you know so it's like we very earned very learned very learned very early that there's no resentment towards like our dad

busting his ass our whole lives to make sure that we don't starve you know and uh dad I hope you don't mind me putting this all out there but he part of that

was him not paying taxes for a really long time to in just just so his kids and his wife are happy He was 1099, and he didn't pay for a long time. Damn. So our house in Bristol was foreclosed on, and I'm digressing,

Davey Havoc style. But, yeah, in terms about money and work and survival, it's just that, like, everybody does it, and it takes a lot of, it takes all of your time, basically, and your free time is valuable. and whenever he did have that valuable free time, it was spent with us. Or if he's really tired and needed to take a tenor,

which is a two-hour nap, very famously in our house. Then it's because he's busting his ass. So we learn the value of money through how hard he worked. The literal sweat of his brothers. He just got a break, you know? He's not retired. He retired for a little bit,

and has a job again. He just, he can't fucking stay away. And our mom has been like in and out of jobs and now teaches music independently. She's a great music teacher. So, Teresa.

All things. All things. She can teach everything. That's crazy. She knows fundamentals of everything enough to teach at all. But she's like a mean pianist. What's a childhood memory

maybe from that time period that quietly shapes how you act today? And I focus on that key word is like act. Childhood memory. Because you're a, you're a clever like a fox. You know what I mean? Yeah. You're very good on your feet.

You pivot really well. Childhood memory, my first experience with racism. Whoa. Was my grandparents. My mom's parents. So we had this, Taylor and I had to go stay with them a few times. The first time that we ever did was when I decided, A, I didn't like them. Didn't want to go back and didn't agree with them.

Taylor and I went to, they took us to blockbuster. What else are you going to do? You got to keep these kids busy. I think I only went there twice. Once was with Taylor, once was alone. The first day, Taylor and I rent Good Burger. I'm a dude. He's the dude.

She's a dude. We're all dudes. Hey. We rent Good Burger, put it on. It's an American classic. We've seen it 50 times. We saw it in theaters But we wanted

We wanted to experience it again As we did Our grandma rips it out of the BCR And it's like you're not fucking watching this shit Goodbert And Taylor I'm I'm 7 Taylor's 11 And we're like

Fuck this lady man Fuck her Fuck her Fuck what she thinks Fuck what she believes Like we know that's wrong The implication was because they're Oh yeah 100%

Whoa And it was like fuck you Wow And so like like Keenan rocks. Oh dude. Kiena and Kel? Come on, dude, all day. So they went to Ben and we watched it all night, you know, as we did.

That was, that was, I'm sure I had like vaguely experienced, you know, witnessed prejudice in my life before that. But that was like, yo, my family member thinks this way. I come to, like, I'm a product of this. My mom, as liberal as they come. somehow was like I don't yeah she made it out and she's fucking she's the opposite of that

so I you know when we told her about that she was like fuck that watch whatever you want in that regard yeah but our end of day is VHS she she burned I think because we're watching satanic stuff in the preacher man's apartment yeah

can't do that out of pure rebellion yeah that that taught me like okay I'm not I don't I'm not that okay and I will never be that And I don't fuck with this lady It's a good one And I don't need to know her

When I I was somehow My mom really looked out I found punk And the straight edge thing Really early Dude And so I wasn't

You know I did I snuck some cigarettes And like She kept like vodka Like in the cabinet Or wine or whatever Mom's liquor cabin

Yeah you know what I mean And I would sneak that And like I just I thought it stank I didn't get it You know And I don't even remember it was so funny my mom would like chain smoke in the house and i would like smoke when i would

like oh my god she's good enough yeah no no the walls are sweating yeah straight up um but she she recognized me really early on i think because like i was a terrible student but i wasn't a bad kid i was never really in trouble so the the rule of the house was like especially once i got my license it was like you do whatever you want you stay out sleep over to a friend's house if the parents are cool with it you do whatever you want you're going to school and if you get in trouble if you're in jail i'm not coming to get you like that's that's you kind of a thing and i could call her bluff a little bit she's a she's a softy but um it gave me a sense of responsibility because uh there was a point in time where she had three jobs she she she had a two which had a eight hour a day job and then like a side

And then she would like for a while she worked at Dave and Busters that opened She worked at she would bar-atend or wait tables or whatever but she developed that trust with you very early now It was just a matter of like I don't want to put her through anything She's got enough on her fucking player She's trying to pay for this house that that she got us you know in Roselle and And I just the the memory that made it all solidify was I think I've told the story before where we bought the airsoft gun yeah And I got arrested and I think the cops were trying to scare me and my one friend Chris a different Chris and like took us and mugshot us

the fingerprinted us like the whole really don't think they booked us oh that's cool but they think they were trying to kind of try to scare us right yeah and called my mom so you don't have a record correct I was also a minor so it wouldn't have mattered okay but called my mom my one phone call and like explained to her what happened and she was like you better find her right home kind of the thing now ironically Roselle is I walked home it was very small town it was no no problem probably two miles and um got home and she was like what happened i explained and she was like oh what are you doing tonight you know she believed me she trusted me and it's because i i was a pretty reasonable kid and it just kind of instilled me the sense of like hey if i'm like

chill yeah and like nice yeah i'll probably be all right when it comes to like interpersonal stuff And I think I went out and saw Anchorman that night I believe that was the same night I think so One of those kinds of movies Maybe super bad but I think Anchorman Yeah Our dad was very much the same way

Where it was very much like a you get one Yeah yeah right Get one I stole from the CVS that I got one You know dad picked me up and was like Don't do that again It was like I get it man Yeah

Mrs. Fields cookies are good Dry I gave him something I felt bad about it Yeah I was like dad you want this cookie He had no idea He was eating stolen

and goods. But didn't go to jail or anything like that. But he was the same way with the trust where he would see the cobalt, you know, this seedy, crazy, dark place and be like, I'll pick you up in three hours. Here's 30 bucks. Get three shirts. Best day in my life.

Best days of my life. Yeah. You know? And he just knew very on. He was like, yo, my kids are straight-edge. I'm going to go home. I'm going to get highest book. And not worry about them.

I'll pick them up. Yeah. There's been moments late in life where he's like. Like, he hid weed from us our whole lives, which I really respect. Like, every time that Taylor and I went into his office, it would be like a, every time. He still does it out of sheer instincts. Yeah. He still does.

It's hilarious. But he'd be like, all right, you're going to go to the cold ball tonight? Anything going on? Or he would take us to six flags and sit outside and smoke weed the whole time. But there was just that trust there, very on. It's very important. Yeah. What kind of kid were you socially?

I didn't, I was an only child of two parents who were the black sheep of their families. My dad was an alcoholic drug addict. He kind of got ostracized. He eventually, obviously made his way back in, but at that time, he was kind of on the outs. And probably breaking his back to make child care payments. Yeah. Child support. And then my mom, the same thing.

She was kind of the black sheep in a weird. way had an odd relationship with her my aunts and uncles they both have i have tons of aunts and uncles didn't really hang out with cousins didn't you know so it was very much it was just me and very much just me and my mom so when she was gone um i would wander and find kids and sometimes that was skateboarding isn't it incredible it's bizarre dude dude you on a bike in just like there's got to be a kid yeah i got to play i'm gonna go play with somebody i want to find somebody to play with yeah uh sometimes neighbors. I did have a neighbor right next door who was really into WCW NW versus NWO, Revenge. Oh, do it. Good game. That's the greatest moment. So we'd play that a lot. They're into Pokemon,

all the obvious stuff. Stephen, big Pokemon guy. And so that was cool. But eventually, I had to make my own friends. And I do like to think of it, or obviously make your own friends, but you make your own family in a way. And like I said, I've been really close with Chris for a long time. James just a little bit less, you know. And those are my brothers. And that is how I have to, how I had to kind of do that. But man, I remember days after school where I would like, okay, all right, who can I call? Who can I call? Because my house sucks, dude. I didn't like being at home alone. I was scared. I don't have I mentioned this. You were the scared kid. I was afraid of things. I didn't like being alone. I didn't like storms. I didn't like the dark.

Yeah. I was scared of stuff. So I would, I would call. I'd kind of go down my list and call the house numbers and see like, hey, you want to hang out? Yeah. And I, you know what's so funny? There's one guy I've never really talked about, Brian Amadeo. He had a mom from Japan and a dad from Italy. Cool. Cool ass guy.

Brian was awesome. He and I were really, really good friends for a long time. And then in high school, we just kind of naturally. And he had all the video game systems and stuff. He lived right by Chris, too. And I would just go over all the time. And I remember calling him one time, like, hey, you want to play?

He'd be like, yeah, we can hang out. And it was like, yeah, we can hang out. And that was, you know, probably fifth grade, sixth grade. And that's just kind of who I was. I was really desperate for approval and to be accepted. And also, at that time, we had moved from Bloomingdale to Roselle. So I was the new kid. Fifth grade.

Fifth grade new kid. Was that cool or were you? It was kind of cool. It was kind of like, Like were you cool the mysterious new kid? I was. I was the the two cool kids were Brian and this guy Keith. And it was so funny.

It's so funny to think about it. We were like Captain Planet or something. We were very, very, we did skits together, jackass was around. You know, it was all starting to become a thing. And we were really tight and everything was really cool. And I was just, I wanted to be liked. I wanted to be accepted. I wanted friends because I was lonely.

And that was very much That if you draw that to where I am today It makes total sense Yeah now I have friends all over the country Yeah, that's true You know what I mean What about you? What were you like, you a little weirdo?

It was a little weirdo Yeah I would say until I was 15 14 or 15 I was Taylor's brother You know Where like he had this incredible group of friends And all these bands So early

And I was always like God he's so cool Like bands he was listening to or in? He was in bands very young. Yeah. When I was a little kid. And I thought that was so cool. And I had kids around the neighborhood, Mike Grinsfelder, Shane Richardson,

Etan Choucar, Sammy, the homie Sammy. I didn't really, I would say Shane Richardson was my first best friend. Okay. And we had a pretty big falling out. His brother, Ray, incredible skateboarder, absolute fucking psycho. Oh. rubb boogers on his walls it was crazy his own oh yeah like later and like like like kind of like teens just fucking I remember a vivid memory of being in his room and seeing him do that and being like I gotta go

I gotta get out of here uh but as a kid socially I was um I was pretty shot I was I was a performer you know yeah I wanted to perform yeah I wanted to act I wanted to I wanted to I wanted to perform all or I was a I did musical theater yeah same but I was still shy and very insecure and very self-conscious. I played with action figures for a long time. Yeah. A long time. How long?

Mid-teens. Oh, that's not, I don't think that's that crazy. I get it, but like... Like a long time. So, but figure this, though, my mid-teens are 2000. Yeah. Brother, I'm spin-kicking and then going home and... Oh, okay.

And writing a screenplay, you know, with the X-Mil. I don't think that's... That's a long time. I get it. I get it. I just had a fascinating. I was fascinated by them. I loved,

I loved the stories. I love the worlds. I love toys. To the day, I got a lot of them. Socially, I didn't have a lot of friends in Connecticut. Okay.

Like, kids in school didn't really like me. I was a weird kid. Really? Yeah, wore me black. But looking back, it's me in like a Yoda shirts.

Yeah, right. But I'm like the freak. So when we moved to California, I made up this lie That I that we were moving to California Because I got cast as Krillin In the Dragon Ball Zee movie And that

Dude That changed Stephen is cracking up off that changed my life And Krillin Krily I was Krillin Destructed out desk So and dude And like you there was an IMDB

Wow But so But like It started getting around the news that a Dragon Ball Dragon Ball Evolution that movie was getting made. And you were like,

I had no idea. It was complete coincidence. So I'm telling everybody I'm krillin in Dragon Ball Evolution. And like, I know, I'm like, that ain't even Dragon Balls E. They don't know that like, cron's probably not in that story yet.

But I'm like, yeah, I'm crinling. And then everybody starts being so cool to me. And they're like, because I had done Christmas Carol locally at the Hartford stage, which is Broadway in Hartford. Legit, like, the biggest... What did you play?

The first year, I was the turkey boy, which the turkey boy in the Christmas Carol is in the end when Scrooge turns around. Yeah. And he flips that coin, and he tells the kid, go get me a turkey, a Christmas turkey. I was the boy who was like, yes, my way, sir!

And I had to catch his coin, and I was one of the, like, the street urchins singing the songs and stuff. Next year, I was Peter Cratchett, who is Tiny Tim's older brother. Not bad. Brutal role. Really?

Because the Ghost of Christmas Future stuff, I'm grieving him. And I have to cry in a British accent and read this Bible. Because thou hast made the Lord. I remember vividly. So I've been like acting a lot. I played, I was the post-beast beast in Beauty and the Beast. So like after he becomes a guy.

Hell yeah. Not bad. So I was like, damn, you think I'm handsome? Yeah, right. And then I was, and then when I moved here, oh, we'll skip my head a little bit. So I'm crilling to everybody And then and dude Everybody's like Colin we're gonna miss you so much

I'm like for real that's awesome man They're never gonna know I'm lying They're gonna know I'm lying once the movie comes out But it's highly of a baby you know some things happen So it's crazy That Night Patrol happens and I'm in this movie Because I've been lying My whole life you know

Where it was like that was like the first big lie I ever told I love lying I told some fibs Some lies, for sure. There was a few people. New kid at the school. Dude, and that's thing. So I moved here.

Yeah. My, it's a crazy culture shock. West Harper, Connecticut, white as snow. Sure. Moved here and it's like, I'm the white, I'm the only, like, one of three white kids in that whole school. Whoa. So my mom walks me to class my first day in seventh grade, you know? Yeah.

Seventh grade's a little late. It's a little late. And my shirt's tucked in. It's uniform. because of gangs. Yeah. And Van Nuys. So my mom walks me to my first class, and I can tell everybody's like, this kid's a fucking nerd.

Did you have a bald head? No, dude. Like mid-length face cover. Crayal hair. Yeah. I mean. Were you tall? No, no, no.

You were still short? No, it was very, I was five foot until halfway through ninth grade. Oh, okay. High school. So I'm a little guy. I'm a believe. incredible chronic. I would have absolutely smart.

You're more of a yamcha 100% sure. I thank you. Yeah, whatever. Virginia's the goal, always. We'll get there. We're working on that. We'll go on that. That's fair. I mean, we're all, Future Trunks is really for being real here.

Second day, I'm like, fuck that. I see people wearing jackets that aren't the uniform. So I'm like, oh, you can wear jackets. Sepulter a windbreaker. No shit. So you were already, Taylor had already Oh, I was, I liked cool shit very, That's impressive.

I love Sick of It All, Biohazard, and Pantera in third, fourth, fifth grade. Seventh grade, I was like, have you heard of Ledsup? I mean, dude, but at the same time, it was like, yo, Lincoln Park. Yeah. Lincoln Park and Sick of It All, maybe the two best bands ever. Like, that was my, I was very confused. Seppeltura Windbreaker, day two, shit changed.

And I had seen the new guy the movie was out. So I learned a lot from that On what to do Intimitate people day two I'm telling people I'm good at karate The crilling thing's gone though Oh okay But I'm like yeah I'll fuck you up

You know what's up And they're like damn this white boy's crazy Okay Yeah okay What was expected of you growing up My mom My whole life was like You're going to college

I don't care what you're doing You're going to college So Figure that out You know what I mean? It was very much expected. Like I said before, I wasn't a bad kid. I was a bad student.

Junior and for a lot in common. Yeah. It's crazy. Junior senior year of high school, I did not do homework outside of school. Any work, including projects and like book reports and like the highlighting and annotating. I would do that in school. I do that during class. or I would, if I had a study hall, goaded.

Study hall's pretty sick. I never had one. Study hall is pretty dope. I took film instead, and then my film teacher married my mom. Shout out, Kevin, the homie. Yeah. And anyway, so it was, I was a terrible student. I did not, I literally think I had like a two point something GPA.

Very, very bad. So I didn't get into any schools, obviously. Not a one. So I ended up going to College of Dupage, which is a community college. But Chris, the great example, started at College of Dupage, now has his master's. He's the fucking... He's a whiz kid. He was kissed on the forehead by Jesus Christ.

He's a whiz kid. My mom would eventually kind of get a fresh start with her life and move to Texas. She's now a paralegal. She came back to Chicago. She works with the city of Chicago. All of that is all good But it was a definite like Hey you're doing this

And the deal was if you go to community college For a couple of years We'll cover everything So even when you transfer We can cover all of it Not even half of that happened That sucked And but I knew

I remember sitting in an algebra two class Being like I can't wait for this tour That's in two weeks Probably the first harm's way tour Yeah And then being like, why would I come back? Why would I come back?

I'm not coming back. I hate this. This is all the kids from high school. What is Algebra 2 going to do for me? Literally nothing. You're not going to have a calculator in your pocket. So from mom, that's what was expected. It did not.

From dad, the big division in our life was, of course, religion, Bush era, gay marriage, abortion, all the hot topics that you would expect. Anything that makes a punk? Yeah. A punk, he disagreed with. Particularly religion. Yeah. He's a very devout Christian, especially at that time. He's chilled out like you do. But at that time, it was serious.

And there were arguments where I was ran out of the house kind of thing. And it was, it sucked. So what was expected me of my dad was to be a good little Christian. And I did. He went to the large, church in North America. It's called Willow Creek Community Church. It's now, now it's Joel Olsteen's is bigger. Oh, yeah. But at the time in Barrington, Illinois, was Willow Creek. There was a massive 14,000 person auditorium type church, two basketball courts, Starbucks.

Fuck off. In the church, kind of a thing. The head pastor had some CP stuff. Yeah, of course. He's gone. Shocker. And the church remains the same. But I would go there and interestingly the one the silver lining of that is I worked in the production booth I did audio I ran the board learned a couple two terrific I ran the board for the the band that would play and then they would do skits with like labs and wireless mics and stuff and I learned a little bit about lighting and learned about running an audio board and setting up and routing and snakes and all you know is that a gazette exactly so that was cool but the two expectations my parents really laid on me, I did not fulfill.

Okay. Yeah. What about you? Okay. Well, mom would have really liked that I go to college. Yeah. And I think my, there was a little part of my dad that believed, because his dad was a surgeon, a military surgeon.

So he moved around constantly until he split. He went to California, hippie-dippy. Grandpa? My dad. Your dad. Grandpa was military surgeon. and then regular surgeon till the end.

He just died last year. So I think there was a little part of me that was like my dad had such a contentious relationship with his dad that he spent his whole life

doing the opposite of what he did where he's like I'm not going to have my kids feel the way I do about him. So my dad was very good listener and a very attentive person. Taylor

is in bands. Taylor's touring with crematorium when he's 17 years old. Crazy. You know? Yeah. And I'm younger than that. Thinking like,

my brother's already doing this thing and I'm like, what am I going to do in college? First, I want to be an actor all through middle school. Same. And I had a, my drama teacher in middle school,

Lacey Stanley, ruined every aspiration I had for. Oh, perfect. Like, deeply insecure, unfulfilled person who projected that onto her students, you know? Loser. Classic. Yeah. Yeah, classic.

Messaged me on Facebook years later apologizing with a different name. And it was like, I ignored it because I was like, I don't know who the fuck this is. And then she said something like, I understand if you don't want to talk to me. It's like, you're a grown woman and I was a child. Get over yourself. You deserve nothing for me. And you will get nothing

for me. my mom would have liked me to go to college but I was the like you the worst student imagine not doing it there's no way I'm doing homework so I was the opposite where 9th and 10th grade I flunked everything Junior senior year was like I have to graduate high school otherwise so that I can go to Europe yeah or I'm stuck you know totally yeah so I did that junior junior and senior year I lock the in down I got the B in English that I needed to graduate

as I was graduating Mary Ann who the retired office like the office the head of the office the office administrator basically my hero like she fluffed some of her

she she put with honors on my diploma I did not have a single goddamn honor I have honor not there you know so my mom expected and hoped for college and hoped for me to be a better student.

My dad was like, my kids are musicians. This is college. And like, how right he was. It is. This is what we get to do now. And it's all through that for us that he had.

Of that, like, those shitty tours and the good tours and the good shows and the bad shows everything I did from 17 when I graduated high school to pre-COVID and now is like really shaped who I am my whole life and so the the expectation that my dad the realistic expectation that my dad had of by listening and observing the passion that we had for hardcore music was was like the the created the goal of like all right I I'm gonna do it. My dad thinks I really can do it.

My brother's already doing it. Right. And then eventually my brother wants to do it with me. That's crazy. So when, when, we'll get to, we'll get there. I imagine we'll get there in a second. Yeah. There's a band that my brother and I start together.

Yeah. Then the wheel start turning. Yes. And then it's nonstop. When did you first feel misunderstood? Very early. Yeah. Very, very early.

Oh, you know. I was the smelly kid. Oh. And early in elementary school? Oh, no. Yeah, I was a bather. It wasn't a shower kid. Yeah, and you don't get real clean with baths.

You don't get very clean. You have fun. You have fun. Feels great. Hell of a time. I loved baths. Yeah. But my mom would make me turn on the shower to end.

No. Yeah. My mom, and my dad was working. My mom was, I don't know. So I think When Elizabeth Finer pointed out that I was the smelly kid in class One day, that was when

And you know Elizabeth, I don't blame you, I needed to hear that Because that informed like, if I smell something on me now Oh, oh I think about Elizabeth Finer Totally 30 years later Yeah, I'm thinking about one person

Like damn Elizabeth Finer was right You know? Whoa I would say that was the first time where I was like I don't think people like me or respect me around here. I'm so young. Yeah. Yeah. And I need to change.

So that night I was like, Mom, I'm learning how to shower. Like, leave me alone. I don't take baths anymore, okay? So I don't want that shape. I don't want the fish shaped soap anymore. I need a bar or a dial. And I need to get clean. I need to clean up my act.

Dry my skin out. Exactly. No, 100%. That was, I was not understood. And really all throughout elementary school and middle school, I would think, were. I was very different until all the things that made me different became cool. And that would happen in seventh grade. How about you?

The first thing that comes to mind was, I lied a little bit earlier about the Led Zeppelin thing in seventh grade. before that, the first band was Blink Winquini 2. That was my first, like, I can't believe this. The next thing was Kid Rock. I think that's even out of order chronologically. I think Enema came out after Devil Without a Cause. I could be wrong. You think Kid Rock was the first thing you loved?

No, no, no. I think I found him out of order, is what I'm saying. I think I was already into Blink, because I remember Enema was fifth grade. Nineties, eight. Bawat to Baja went platinum in our household I couldn't Taylor and I were like this is the hardest music ever

I couldn't believe it right so I was obsessed with that in sixth grade I had very like the haircut I had recently like hair departed down the middle down to mid-length baggy clothes skateboard you know world industries independent zero

like skate stuff I didn't really skate I skated a little I didn't know shit I wanted to be CKY I wanted to be Jackass Who did you know yeah at a dance, sixth grade dance. DJ's taking requests. I love this one.

I requested, ball-a-ba-ba. I'm the only one. I mean, the whole time, it's two hops this time, you know, the whole time. And it's, every time we're done, I get this. Anger. One of the greatest songs ever in. Bangor. And stuff like that, Eiffel 65.

You know what I mean? Like really, like, early Y2K shit. Yeah, for sure. And I say, hey, man, you got Kit Rock on there? And he had Balwada Bal. It was the only one he had. Maybe Cowboy, but Badawaba.

Bada was the hit. It came on, and I didn't even look. When it kicked in, I started head banging, full body. Yeah. Phil Anselmo, full in half, head banging, long hair. And I'm probably wearing some kind of silly shirt. Yeah. Like black shirt with like red necktie.

No, you don't. Short sleeve? No, it was like, it would be like and one, like, tight. Oh, dope. Do you know what I mean? To the dance. To the dance. Because no one more like, it was middle school.

Oh, we were kind of formal. We were not. This was like a, like, naughty, it wasn't homecoming. It was like the fall day. The sock hop. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I remember stopping and like starting to sing around and looking.

And everyone was just looking at me. Like the whole gymnasium of six. Did they think it was cool? No. Sixth through eighth graders in my middle school were just like, you know that meme where it's all the girls like, like that you weren't so nobody was like go bo a couple of

a couple of dudes came up to me and hit me on the shoulder like all right man enough buddy you know what I mean and uh that hurt dude was that your first bang over I don't remember I don't think so dude do you remember your first bang over because mine was something like that where

at an assembly they like like a like at a fucking dare assembly or something. Yeah. They played like metal. And I'm like, me and my friends are like, yeah. Yeah. And we start hanging hard as fuck in our chairs, and I can't pick my head up after.

And I'm walking like this, the rest of the day. And they're like holding me up because I'm like, oh, I'm sure I'm exaggerating. But I remember that feeling of being like, oh, dude, you can like headbang yourself into pain. Like too hard. I, yes, I do remember the first one, a friend of mine

from my old, from Bloomingdale, from the old school. old school had a birthday party had sleepover and had like 10 kids over we played 007

golden eye course the greatest multiplayer the greatest split screen multiplayer experience of all time dude and going back to when my dad

worked at the at the Hyatt he hooked up my N64 to two TVs and then covered the other person's point of view

because he was like you know where I am this isn't fair yeah what do what do people call that? Screen peeking. Something like that. Something peaking. Screen check. Screen check. You're screen checking.

But little did he know, I knew the spawn points. Dad, I knew the order. You want to go archives, pistols-only license to kill with me. You're fucked. Yeah. So I still beat. Unless you're odd job and you have that height advantage. I got him. Don't worry about it. We would also play Ken Griffey Jr. Major League Baseball.

Dude, I'd beat him like 34 to 0. Dude, adults are so pathetic. It's so bad. But what's crazy is I think I could smoke most kids at anything. I want to start playing smash bros melee. Smash brawl's great. Melee. It's tough.

For the GameCube with the GameCube. That's the one you can be cracked at. Dude. Like, Vane has all collectively cracked it. I know, but I want to play them. Like, I really feel it. Anyway. Yeah.

The bang over. My friend had a sleepover. His oldest sister. snuck him a Budweiser. We all had a sip of that. What'd you think? Stank. Disgusting.

Stanky. Yeah, I didn't get it. I was legitimately probably 10. But a little song called Faith, a cover by a limp biscuit, had come out. Dude. They put that on and we beat the shit out of each other. There was like 10 kids in a little kid's bedroom and we had like a little mosh pit. And I remember just like, oh, you know, I remember that.

But yeah, that was the first time I felt truly like, oh, this thing I'm into no one is actually into maybe that makes me not cool and even though it like that album sold millions of copies devil without a cause he's going platinum

yeah I brought Lincoln Park into show and tell very early and that they were appalled really and that's pop music now you know weird world

that's odd I know weird world of what's something from your childhood that you still haven't fully shaken have I talked about time traveling in this on hard lore before i don't know there's a phenomenon that happens where people

think they time travel i have time traveled three times in my life and i don't mean i went back in time i don't mean i went i lose time oh okay people think that this means you were abducted right it connects into all of this i have not shaken this because you know me you know i'm a skeptic i cannot explain at least these two instances one i'll make it quick one it was when i was working at bogeys that first job i had i typically started at like three p.m because i could work like two hours a day so it was like or five you know like work the dinner rush my mom would leave me um some money every day i would rent a video game i would wake up the next day decide do i want to keep this game for with tomorrow's money or do i want to go and get another one i was playing some king arthur game

Camelot game for PlayStation 2 that was sick and I woke up and I woke up I remember it being kind of late probably around noon like late in the day for like a kid to be waking up but my mom had already been at work and I went and sat in front of the PlayStation and I like looked down at the controller and I looked up and I looked at the clock and it was 515 and it's just not possible I don't know I don't think I would have slept that long I was 14 I got to work, I got in trouble for being late. On the way to work, I found a little bird that had been caught in a bunch of fishing line.

It was hanging in a tree, and I used my house keys to, like, free it. Because I had to walk to work, and I just heard this, like, chirping. He didn't believe that. It was true. I had little scratches all over my hands. I don't know what happened.

Truly lost that time. I'm not having you two more time. Once was with Harm's Way, right? Once, no. Maybe. But the other really notable time was second period, Mrs. Pierce, the legend, Earth and Space class, junior year,

I would go into her class, she knew home life wasn't great. I would go into her class, put my head down, sleep the whole period, she never bothered me. She was the fucking lifesaver. Because second period, third period, that's when you would get tired.

You know what I mean? Everything kind of... And the way my thing would go is I would go into class, that class, and then I would go see my girlfriend at the time who had my book for the next class. I would keep it in a locker

because mine was on the other side of school. what would happen was I'd have my head down the bell would ring I would immediately get up and just like I had the backmost by the door desk so I'd be gone That happened go to my girlfriend's locker She doesn't show What the fuck I go to my next class Mr. Roth's class and he goes oh you're early looters I look at the clock it's time for second period And go to second period and I go and sit down at the desk and Mrs. Pierce is like hey, bow I put my head down the whole thing repeats and only the next time I

girlfriend was there truly those two things I know this like nightmare on I'm sure I know it's not necessarily what the question meant but this is too this were you in a boiler room while you were asleep no dude dude I also remember a dream when I was a little boy four young first apartment I can remember living in where I popped out of the wall and I woke up sitting up on my bed I was in a tunnel system kind of like sonic just like flew out of the wall very scary what have you not shaken colin someone

very close to me stole something for me really yeah and uh how old are you old enough to to to know about it and be hurt by it what do they take I'd rather not say you know I'd rather just they know who they are and

what it how it felt you know and uh did you confront them about it yeah yeah yeah did you get it back not really okay it's complicated Good.

Sure. And it's just like, now I'm good. Yeah. For show. You called it. We were coming up to it. Were you in a band before being in a band with Taylor? Or was that your first?

Yeah. I had a solo project that was called Death Valley Driver. That's fucking awesome. Isn't that awesome? It's ambitious. We had one song. We? Yeah, I know.

It became, I wrote the song, but then this kid Brent, who was in, my first two bands kind of coincided at the same time Death Valley Driver was the first song I ever wrote The song was called Death Valley Driver I can see the logo It was sick DVD It was sick, it was sick

It's awesome There was the one song It was called Death Valley Driver It was eponymous Buried in Silence Was my other kind of first band Metalcore vibes I didn't really like metalcore

I loved I loved crematorium Since Taylor was in crematorium But you know why Metalcore is always like one of the first thing Because A, it was obviously popular at the time. It's easy to write.

Yeah. I was the singer. Yeah. So I was just stealing lyrics from people and I would do noise. I was kind of, I was very early kind of torture vibes where I was just making sounds and knew what I wanted to interpret to people. Those were my first two bands. Bering Sounds was the first show I ever played.

You know? Yeah. Where it was like, oh, I'm the singer for a band. I'm playing a show and people are washing. just because they're here and it's something to do. That was very cool. The band that I look at as my first real band is Ruckus. Yeah.

Taylor and I doing Ruckus is when Taylor accepts me as like a peer, you know? Wow. Because he was in Fight Everyone at the time, which I loved. And I would join Fight Everyone as like Auxiliary member, just like the kid who could, he was available, you know? nobody particularly wanted me in it in the bullpen i wasn't particularly good ruckus is where taylor's like not only am i starting this band to start it with you but like what do you let's write this stuff he wrote the first demo there we did like five demos if you have any of these i would love to hear them again because they're fucking sick they're they're not on youtube they're not on

youtube there's there's all the stuff pre-lp and And pre the split does not exist. And it's, it holds up. Like, I'm telling you, it's fucking straight up sick. And, like, a lot of that stuff Taylor was writing. It sounds like Marauder. I'm 15. Yeah.

You know? I know who I am very early. Yeah. And it's because Taylor's told me who I am very early. And I'm still playing with action figures. Ruckus was so special to me and it felt so real where I was doodling in my I would be making flyers. Dude, yeah.

Ruckus, Earth Crisis. 25th Delight. Oh, you were, shodded around. You were fantasy booking. Yeah, I was fantasy booking. Europe tour, 2008,

you know? Wow. Just like, all I ever wanted was like, I was like, ruckus is my job. Ruckus is going to be my job. Even if it makes no money,

it's my passion. It's going to be the last man I ever do. It's a great band name. It was sick, dude. It was a great band. It was sick. The band was awesome. I'm still,

The LP is not great. The LP was much like five other venom. I'm supposed to be pre-production. Taylor fucked me, man. Taylor, you know what she did. I was doing the same fill in every song because I was like, I'll do it.

Placeholder. Yeah. But by the time the LP came out, Twitching Tunes was in full swing. But anyway, first band, to me, my first real band is ruckus. What about you?

A similar thing before Double Cross, which was Mining Chris's first band, which we pressed a seven-inch. We put out music. We weren't a cover band. That's the first one. But before that, the band was called Kick Me. Brutal.

And it was all covers. And it was mostly blink, some 41, lit. I was robbed of this experience. Like the young cover thing. And like, Chris didn't want to do it, but Chris did play with Kickme at a water park. That's awesome. We got booked at a water park where there was like the beach entrance, right, where it's like gradual. Yeah.

We played on the beach and people were in the water watching us in the middle of summer. And I was singing and playing guitar. Dude, that's awesome. For all the songs. And it was this other guy, Al, the guy who bought Bitcoin. Al, the one that said you broke your arm when you lie. Collarbone, yes, sir. Yeah, your collarbone.

Same guy. Same guy. My friend, Al. Yeah. He also had Bitcoin really early on and like bought pizzas with it. Whole bitcoins. How's he doing now? He's doing, he's fine. He's very smart guy.

He kept one or two? I don't know, but he, PhD kind of guy. So that, that happened and Chris kind of reluctantly did it because I think he knew he was like, we'll get, we'll get another guy to play base and then we'll be like an actual thing. And that did happen. We made demos and flyers in class and all that thing. So double crossed with the first thing. The first hardcore show that double cross played was at the Bloomingdale Park District.

A thing I've talked about a lot where it was like sidewalk plan of attack, two sweet double crossed and another band or two. All of those bands had like drew from nachos, caution from nachos, Andy from Bricktop and nachos. The whole scene is in this one show. James was there. Like everyone I would eventually meet were there. It was a very, it was a pivotal day, early 2003. The day I got my license. Fuck yeah, dude.

When did you first feel like yourself? And when did you feel the least like yourself? Boy, when did I first feel like myself? You know, that's a complicated one. It is. I truly did not feel like myself until very recently. probably when I took a hold of my health and took a hold of

the things that I had problem with about my body image and took responsibility for that and then decided to do something about it that was that helped that was the last piece I had figured out my style if you want to call it that I wore the same thing every fucking day hair was you know that's a big thing

never ending battle never happened Yeah. I certainly did not. I mean, I was the kid in school who would like write like, fuck God. Yeah. On my jeans and then like cover up the fuck. But like make it obvious enough where you can see it, you know.

Did you ever wear like, did you have the first fucking blood hoodie? No. Oh man. I wore the shit out of that. And then my teachers were come and tape it up. That's crazy. I wore the ringworm shirt that there is no god. I wore that in my yearbook.

It's awesome. if anybody has the birmingham high school 2009 yearbook i don't know where mine is and there's i'm wearing i'm wearing this shirt somewhere i'm wearing sick-ass shirts in there so let me know damn um but yeah my whole childhood i had i was i was very aimless i didn't really have an identity i didn't i didn't know about what i wanted to do or be you know what i mean um so i i i think pretty much my like until i was in my late 20s i did not know what I, who I was. And that's fine.

It is fine. That's good. And part of that is growing out of caring. Yeah. I don't care anymore. I'm going to wear what I think looks good and what I think compliments me and what's comfortable. You know.

100%. Yeah. I never wore girl pants. And that was very in vogue at a time where I could have. You know what I mean? And I mean girl pants by like literal pants made for. Yeah, that's not derogatory. It's not a derogatory.

It's not a lot of our peers were buying. pants from the girl section because that was the swag. That was the swag and the men's... 18 Visions really changed shit. The men's pants just didn't come in that fashion. And then TUI re-changed shit. Thank God. Thank you. T.U.I.

What about you? First time I felt like myself was probably the first show with Barrett and Silence. Oh, damn. Yeah. I mean, that didn't stay. Yeah. Like I said, I say it all the time. I've been me the whole time. You know?

Yeah. I've been this guy for a long time. tonne. Whether people understand that guy or that or that or I feel like being personable that day, that changes. But like I've been me, Taylor can attest, I've been me the whole time. But that first show was very much like, oh, I get it now. When did you not feel like yourself? There was a field trip one time where my whole class went to see Tuck everlasting. It was that. It was a, it was a book that became a movie. It's about this like. guy who's young forever because he drinks from this well or some shit I don't

really remember see me you ever see that it's dog shit Alexis Bledell is in it and she was incredible Rory from Gilmore Hills come up legend so I went on this this kind of after school field trip this is the first time anybody from school had ever seen me after school so I was like I got I got to be different yeah crazy yeah so I borrowed about I borrowed a Two wallet, two chain wallets. Damn. I had two chains.

Just extra safe. Yeah, way before two chains, the guy. I had two. And my brothers had all these weird goth friends and juggalo friends who had all this weird shit. And I was like, guys, I need stuff. I'm going to movies. My whole, yeah. So I had this, like, pulley system around my belt.

And it was very much just like, and I was acting different. I was, like, cursing out loud just so people would notice. me and and I drop the belt like exploded at one point and the police I don't know what they are they're I don't even they were just like here

put these on it'll be sick but the belt like exploded and the pulleys like spilled everywhere during the movie during the movies and I remember just thinking like I don't even want these things like why do I have these and I remember the look on my

teacher's face as she saw me like cursing and acting like a different person. Whoa. That was like, she looks disappointed at me. Whoa. I think I need to be myself. Damn. And I never really acted like that again. You were like data from the goonies.

Pretty much. Yeah, I had all these gadgets and dropped them all. And like one of my biggest pet peeves, like nearly a phobia is dropping things in public. Picking them. I really like dropping keys on my phone in public and having to pick it up. humiliating to me. So having to pick up all these pulleys

from around the hearts. I don't even know what they are. Yeah. And they're all over the theater. And I'm going around picking them up after it was humiliating. I don't, I don't, that was just, that's a stupid memory that sticks with me

because I was like, this isn't me. Yeah, yeah. What do we got now? We got, did you feel, this is a great question. And I think it's going to lead

to the same answer for both of us. Yeah, probably. Did you feel like you belonged to anywhere growing up? Well, so as to not be redundant, I will choose a different path. Mom, like I said, didn't like to drive. Work downtown would take the train. So she'd get home around 7 p.m. every night, and she'd be gone before the son was up every day.

So mom was gone during the week. Once high school happened and I made like the new high school friends, there were these two twins or a pair of twins, the Becks, Matt and Kevin. my sweet beloved becks these guys I talk to you maybe once a year got food with Matt not too long ago but they're just like my guys they're your normal guys they're my normal guys but they went into shows

and Kevin there's a video of the killer playing slave New World from Knights of Columbus that kind of went around Matt is right next to me oh awesome they went to shows and they were like they were into stuff I would go to their house every single day after school. I knew the garage code.

Mrs. Beck, bless her heart, would, like, feed me because she knew I would go home and make really bad scramble dicks. You know what I mean? Like, she was so awesome, and they were so awesome. Mr. Beck was a pretty stern guy,

but very nice. They're welcoming, you know? And the two brothers, I just, like, adored, still do. And they were, they were just my guys, who I, they were the first on the list I would call it. like hey you want to hang out oh right and Matt would be like no dude I'm just playing

more coffee like I'll be right there because I know the garage code I'm coming in and you want to watch and play world I literally like analog twitch would sit on his bed just like whoa you know um W I felt I felt I felt like I belong there I felt very welcome they had a basement with a wee in it yeah it was the best okay when did you feel like you belong I think I think the Colbaut Cafe as a place socially and like ethically and

you know I was very much a product of my environment for better or worse you know a lot of older bad guys who I hung out with that made me want to do bad stuff. Yes.

A lot of really good people who were awesome right away and were really good influences on me but that's where I met pretty much anybody I'm still friends with today. Like from here. Aldo, Nate, Brody King,

fucking Myra, legend. And twice as hard. I've seen them a thousand times. Nobody knows who they fucking are, but I've seen that band more than any other band. Caesar. Everybody from the valley congregated here.

And then that would lead to like posting on strange notes, which was the California Bridge Nine board. That would lead to being on the bridge nine board and getting people were mad at me all the time on that I wonder if I like read your posts You probably did probably did you probably did but you know what my screen name was? Well I succeed yeah mine was Conan at first that was my one of my early nicknames Really Conan and that came from my friend Josh Gonzalez I'm not even gonna lie to you I remember a B9 Conan I swear to my account was made in 2006 or seven

And then I changed it to Soaks and Torment Whoa Yeah pretty slow And then Taylor and I, there was just one day on the B-9 board where Taylor and I changed our profile pictures to the same picture of Peter Steele. But mine was reversed. So it would be like us talking to each other in a thread. But his was facing this way and mine was facing the other way. So that probably jogs some of somebody was like, oh my God, it's that fucking guy.

I had a lot of posts. But I would say the Colbalt Cafe was where it was like, oh, this is my community. Yeah. This is my place. that for sure happened with me at venues and stuff but it it is nice that i think we both had very welcoming experiences as young men getting into oh dude and that's why like i say like it's why we are the way and i was told this is a lot but riley from satin fury was the mod of strange notes yeah and they well they people on this board wanted me dead for asking for a download a link of

the violation record and riley's like, why are we banning this kid that just wants to find hardcore? He doesn't have a record player. How would it, how, what is he going to do with the violation possessed seven inch? You know? Genius. Let's let him listen to it. Uh, so Riley.

Riley, and then everybody was like, damn, he's right. He's right. Yeah. And like all my peers, all the kids like one or two years old and they wanted me to fucking kill myself. Uh, but yeah. When do anger, sadness or anxiety show up for you? You know, anxiety is a recent thing. And I've realized, so I cannot be late.

I cannot be late. I have to be the one who was early. I cannot have people inconvenienced by me. In the early days of us, when I would fuck up. How much worse did this show make that feeling? Oh, dude, like, I can't even tell you, like, even over the weekend we had an audio issue. It kept me up last night. I have insane foam.

You really do. I have crazy fomo, which I think stems from being an only child. And having to find the mo. Make sure I had no mo. So that stems into everything that drives any kind of negative emotion I might feel. sadness, I'm a pretty happy guy. Really?

Yeah, mostly. I went through some, I've been very sad for prolonged periods of time. But especially now, I'm a very happy person. I'm very pleased with everything. And anger, I'm not that angry. I'm really not that angry and I've never been. And that is something that I talk to Dr. Hillary with every other Wednesday. Hey, Dr. Hillary.

See you soon, girl. But yeah, that is something, you know, that and all of that stems from, fuck, I fuck this up and now I'm not going to be on the show anymore and I'm going to miss out on it. But you know what I mean? It all stems from FOMO. It really, that's where it all comes from. The fear of even FOMO itself. Yeah.

Fofomo. FOMO is very real. What we really want is AOMO, absence of missing out. Yeah, I want to in. Yeah. Whatever the opposite of missing out is. I. Yeah, yeah.

There's one eye. What about you? You're a pretty angry guy. You think so? I don't think anger as you're not walking around angry. No. But when something pisses you off. I think anger started for me in 2018.

Oddly. I was never really an angry, spiteful person until then. Anger really started for me in general when when Twishing T tongues really took off, I think. The first real hit? Yeah. Because like It was it was pretty widely accepted at first

And then it wasn't and then it was been Then they were very vocal about it And then it was like I really sought it out I really just wanted to read it all It was brutal I read everything You know? Well that's something not to interrupt

But I don't read comments or anything At all because that's the anxiety When I see the one out of 100 That's bad it ruins my whole day 100% Yeah continue Oh I'm with you Sadness is as

maybe my definitive emotion. Really? Yeah, I don't know why. It started very young and that's what like, I think that's what drew me to, like, typo. Typo is my favorite band because of that. Because of sadness. Yeah, because it was like, it was like this, I don't know how or why I could relate to it.

But all the Kill Myself songs in the world, those are my favorite songs. And it's like, all right, this person feels this way. They didn't do it. I don't have to do it. I can write about it. Yeah. And then I don't have to do it.

Anxiety, hard lore gives me more anxiety than anything. Yeah. I was not an anxious person until a hard door. Really? And I think every time we do this, half of me is like, this is just a thing that's going out to my friends

and nobody's going to hear it. Oh, yeah, I think that every week. And then I go back in an episode, I'll have 200,000 plays. And I'll be like, what the fuck? Yeah. Yeah. It's escaped containment.

So there's that. When I don't think about that, when I think of it as like, this is a thing for my friends, I don't freak out. When it's a bigger thing and like it's going to reach a new kind of person, it becomes this performance and performances can be bad. Yeah. And you're not, and if this is our job, not every day at the office is going to go well. Great. And that happens. And I don't accept that when it does.

And if it doesn't, it's like, that was my fault. I let that happen. So if an episode is bad or I feel like an episode is bad in the moment, I'm really beating myself up or if I forget to ask something. I really freak out about the general structure of how this show goes. Especially if it's a bigger episode, a bigger guest, like the last seven weeks of the show have been. I spent those seven weeks really freaking out.

The first time I saw that was the Manchester kind of improv-to live thing. I had nothing. Yeah, and that really bothered you. I really bothered. And I loved it. Hated it. Interesting. And I was very emotional.

I also hadn't slept all week. Oh, that was... I hadn't slept in a week. I was very... It was dawning on me in real time that, like, this dumb little thing we did had a sold-out show in Manchester, UK, before we did anything live in America. You know? Yeah.

That really touched me. and I couldn't function properly. But I would say sadness informs my day-to-day existence. Not that anything in my life is sad. I think it's chemical. My wife is the funniest, most incredible person to ever walk the earth, in my opinion. She really is. She's so fucking funny.

When she gets home tonight, I'm surely going to laugh because that's what we do. Yeah. How beautiful is that? We giggle, you know? Yeah. One time I asked her, she was going to hang out with her friends one day and I asked, what are you looking forward to? Like, what are you going to do? She's like, I'm giggling, and that is her.

Yeah. You know, and that's every day. But yeah, I think sadness informs, I would say, I would go, sadness, anxiety, anger, you know? Probably just switch the one for me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.

I think, I would say high school, I became a sad guy. And then I think I became angry around the true revelation of the preacher man story developing. I was kept from and I wouldn't find out the truth about until very late this is well documented I've talked to do Taylor know Taylor knew Aaron knew but it was broken down to me by my dad as he's in a hospital bed

and his lung is collapsing and I'm thinking something horrible is happening to him it's in a way that's like hey you don't know this and this scared me so you should know this and that was when it was like fuck like my life is a lie kind of type thing yeah but yeah

When did you realize You wanted something different From the life That was presented And in front of you Maybe normal Normal life I think there's a few instances

Of that In high school Everybody around you is going to college And we're like No I want to rock You know That's natural Yeah

Once you're rocking Not everything is Rainbows and roses Yeah There's a little bit, there's a time when you're rocking where you go, if this doesn't work out, I'm really looking forward to going home and getting a job. Getting on fucking nine to five. You get that job and you go, man, I'm really looking forward to changing that and going back on the road again. And then, and I think COVID, having a nine to five,

barely working on music, but working on music nonetheless, coming out of COVID, the God's Hate record coming out, us having these Zoom calls. that were so fun and realizing I really hate my job I really love being creative and I love talking about music and I think Bo and I are on to something that was the real I think that was the biggest aha moment of my whole life was this thing developing that's pretty huge with no expectations of it totally but it was like damn we can if 800 people watch watch this, we can make a little bit of money. Yeah. You know?

And here we are, almost four years later. Yeah. It was when I didn't get into any colleges. I was open to college, and I was almost like, well, my parents must know something I don't. Obviously, I must be able to get into UIC, University of Illinois, at Chicago. So no state schools either? No. Really?

I had no extracurriculars, no accolades, 2.2 GPA. Like, truly. You're a smart guy. You know, what was the one class that had graded in? It was history and 20th century and like kind of social studies type stuff. I wanted to, I was like, I'll go to college if I can go away. Meet girls. Meet new experiences, you know, like that sounds fun.

Yeah. I wasn't thinking about it for the school. Because I also, I wanted to be a history teacher. I wanted to be an actor. Yeah. I wanted to be a history teacher. Actors seemed pretty unlikely. Yeah.

At the time, ironically. History teacher, there were so many hoops you had to jump through. I didn't want to go to more schooling. I didn't want to blah, blah, blah. So that was the first, like, well, I know I don't want to do that. And then it was fucking 15 years of grinding, of grifting, of living the most paycheck to paycheck I've ever been and hoped to never return. And then, yeah, the day I got laid off from the most recent IT job. And I we had like hey let's get serious we had a conversation where I was like if we do this because we were

We were monetized in a sense and and I was working so it was like oh I'm double dipping which was awesome And then it was like oh I maybe I don't need to find something and we could just focus on this and like travel More and do the in-person stuff and that was a very like holy shit if we work harder this is becomes more real and and and like we could just do that and so yeah I I'm actually I'm right there with you. That was a big... That was the late life. Like, oh, I can... There's a third path. There's something else. Yeah. This next question is, what were your first escapes? Do we like that one? I feel like we've talked about that long. Oh, we haven't talked about one of them. What were your first escapes? A little thing called Nintendo 64. Oh, yeah. I talked about my dad's roommate, Rick. He had all the systems. Eventually, Rick moved out. My 10th birthday. My dad got me in Nintendo 64. I had

played Sega and Super Nintendo and Nintendo and all that stuff, but those games weren't as immersive as Ocreen of Time. And that was the first like I would log, I would turn on Ocriein of Time to watch the sunrise. That's beautiful. To listen to the music and just

like stand in Zora Village because I thought it was dope. That's a great answer. You know what I mean? And that was the first sense and that truly began my because shortly thereafter a PC came along and I got into Warcraft 3 Diablo 2 And then before that

A game called Asheron's Call Which if anyone knows it was a Microsoft game by Turbine Unbelievable game looks like Rooms game But it was a full MMO RPG And then of course eventually World of Warcraft Yeah And I mean

We're talking tens of thousands of hours Yeah yeah Logged into these games I could never do the monthly subscription games I wasn't allowed I had an allowance And this absorbed it Gotcha

So it was a word It was a fine trade for me, but I understand. Very similar answer. Yeah. Was my Game Boy coat? My Game Boy Pocket. Oh, was that the... That's what I got for Christmas.

Was that the color? I don't think it was color, but it was backlit. Backlit. The pocket was backlit. That was the first... Like the second generation. That was, to me, the first thing I ever owned. The first thing that was mine.

That wasn't a stuffed animal or something. Pokemon, red and blue. The first two games I played, I played them back-to-back. Same game, you know? Just played them back. I smoked them both. All day, all night, all the time.

And I really attribute Pokemon to, like, why I didn't notice my parents getting a divorce or my mom leaving my dad for a priest. Because it was like, I don't give a fuck. What is it going on? Whatever. I just found Meutu. He's real.

You understand? And Mu is apparently in this truck, if I can move it. I see pixels. Yeah. If I can use strength on this truck in the beginning of the game, Mew is under there, and I'm going to find him. Never found him. And that would go to the N64.

That would go to the PS2. And then, dude, video games are, I feel horrible for, our parents' generations are so fucking technologically inept with that. You ever see if somebody who's like 60 hold a controller? Dude, I, it's pathetic. I fly all the time. I see people hold their cell phones. It's pathetic. Sometimes we'll do this, right?

You'll do this when you're, but this is the development. default. Do you know what I'm talking about? That's like the default. One hand. Okay? Always. Watching a grown man hold a controller like a fucking loser as a kid was very like, damn.

There's an amazing scene in Sopranos where Tony comes home late and AJ is playing Mario Car. Tony sits down next to him and holds it just with one hand by the joystick. He's not even hitting the gas. It's crazy. It's authentic. It's so good. Pathetic behavior. So, and it's cool, it's cool to me now that it's not as much of a societal taboo, you know?

Yeah. Our evenings are spent logging on and immersing ourselves. Like, I can't wait. We, we, we, that escape that got us through so much of our lives. Yes. It's still so, such a big part of our lives. And what's great is we, we're adults. We're adults and now, we can find all of them.

And now everybody my age, I hang out with them on there, you know? It's all. I go to, I go to eat with them and then we go home and hop on the game. It's beautiful. Beautiful. Let's say what mistake from an earlier era taught you the most? I think when recording disharmony, I knew that I was what I was giving vocally was a problem, you know? Whoa. Where it was like, I don't think this is right because it was sound, my voice never recovered the whole time, you know?

and my instinct was I don't think I can do this I don't think I'm doing this right and I think I should have listened to that instinct maybe listen to your instinct would be would be a mistake that not listening to my gut

kind of always a lot of the time my first instinct is very correct yeah yeah and I think I think when I ignore it things don't always go well. Understood.

It's one of the biggest cliches in the world, but the grass is always greener is probably the truest euphemism or whatever that would be called on earth. Whether it's jobs or status or bands or relationships or friendships or money or it always seems better until you're there.

You were just talking about it with the job thing where it's like you're at your 9 to 5. God, I can't wait to get in the van. You're in the van. You're like, I cannot wait to have a dollar. Or you're loading in the rain and you're like, I can't wait to just be home. Yeah. You know, and I've learned truly only in my 30s.

It took a long time to just kind of enjoy and focus on what you're doing because that other lawn or whatever doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. And if it's that important, then go, but realize what you're. That's how we learn. That's how we learn. Who were you trying to impress? or defy always trying to impress Chris always trying to impress my dad always trying to defy my dad I remember getting into political debates with my dad thinking I was a little

communist when I was in middle school in an early high school showing him the most aggressive disgusting music I could find at the time which was probably ringworm you know I mean it just to be like yeah hear that dad and And you know what I mean? And yet the very first double-cross demo, my dad recorded it. We did it at his house because he's a recording engine. So it's like it's hand. And if he liked it, you'd been so psyched, you know?

Yeah, and he didn't. It was awful. It was like shitty youth group band. But it's kind of like what we were talking about with Pinks, the hot dogs thing. I don't know what the thing would be for my dad to be like, wow. Yeah. It's out there. Probably something to do with Wrigley Field

If I throw out the first pitch He'll be psyched. He'll be pumped. You know what I mean? I got close when we were able to park at the metro Yeah, yeah. He really was impressed by that. But definitely, definitely dead Because he was a musician. He was in a band. He was in the stay tuned orchestra.

He is both answers. He's both answers for sure. I definitely, I certainly want to impress Chris. Yeah. But Chris is impressed. But Chris is impressed. And Chris is very supportive. When I told Chris we were doing Davey Havoc,

he was like, that is fucking. incredible you know and chris chris knows he knows that um but yeah it's and and obviously i want to impress mom but mom is mom is my biggest cheerleader in the world so she's impressed no matter what you know you trip over your shoes you're she's gonna be like wow you felt so good so gracefully yeah that's fair well by you i mean the the the easy answer is my brother yeah but we just eventually we started doing everything together you know you know you don't want to defy that no I don't want to defying him. I think now I'm defying him more than ever,

and it's like sometimes I'm right, and it's like weird. In terms of who do I want to impress? Anybody who cares about anything I do? Yeah. Anybody who supports anything I do? My dad, my brother, people that listen to our music, people that watch our show. Every time we finish an episode and we get messages from friends or people,

they're like, yo, that was really good. From friends means. It means a lot. People I grew up with taking time out of their lives to watch this is the best part. Yeah, I would say that's

probably constant. Just anybody who cares, I'm trying. I want to, I don't want to fail them again. It hurts. What did music or culture or art give you that regular life didn't? It's kind of everything. Everything.

Everything I have is from hardcore music. All my relationships. I met my wife because of it. We have this show because my job, my job is because of it. There's a movie because of it. Creative outlets. It's everything I've ever done. Style.

And everything I own, everything I like is attributed to hardcore music in some way. I give me art, the art that I have chosen that is hardcore music is all I have and all, and like all I want. Yeah. Same. Same answer. Excellent. What was your first real job? Real job.

Yeah. And what did it teach you? So I'm going to go, real job is going to be the first one that got me out of the house. Like I made enough money to get out of the house, right? So I went bogeys. I've talked about several times this episode. Subway sandwich artist. Park District, where I was a camp concert, which I actually really loved that job.

While also simultaneously working at GameStop. But I was making $10 an hour. I was making crap. Sick job. GameStop rocked, actually. Sick job. In the mall. Dude.

I loved it. I just didn't I didn't get enough hours yeah I eventually worked at a call center He at state Madison right then right smack dab at the middle of downtown and And I moved into the fireside house and lived in the basement And I was making I think I was making like 14 bucks an hour which in 2008 was pretty good It was enough you know if you have roommates 14 an hour in 2008 yeah I think I I think that's like a healthy living. Yeah, it was pretty good.

Yeah. I was doing good, and I was paying 100 bucks a month for rent. Yeah, you were fine. I was in the basement. You could do whatever you want. I could do whatever I want. Yeah, and I did.

And I eventually got promoted, and I was a kind of a shift leader on the weekends. I would be there. I was willing, because I didn't party or anything. I don't care. I'll work on the weekends. Sometimes I have a show. But they didn't care.

They were cool about it. It was some silly marketing thing that was like, We want to be Google. So watch Netflix at your desk if you want. Do whatever you want kind of a thing. Here's a hammock. The company hammock. Yeah, very much.

Very laissez-faire, whatever. And I think I got fired because they thought I wasn't there. I was supposed to email at the end of every weekend to be like, hey, here's what happened. And everything was smooth, right? And for the first year, I did that. And then no one ever responded nor ever commented on. So I just kind of stopped. and they thought I wasn't there because we logged our times.

We didn't clock in biometrically or anything. We just kind of put like I was here, eight to whatever, eight to four 30. And my boss pulled me in. This guy, Bob, I really didn't like him. But he pulled me in. He was like, hey, man, I'm going to have to let you go. We need somebody who's going to be here. I wish you all the best.

And I was like so shocked that I was like, okay. You weren't like, what do you mean? Yeah. I didn't think about until I was on the train where I was like, wait a minute. I've been here every weekend. I truly did not. That's crazy. Yeah, I was wrongfully terminated.

Wow. From total attorneys. Let's get back at them. They're bankrupt. Go. Excellent. But that was my first real job where it was like... You learned the real value of money.

I had insurance, 401K. Good for you, man. Really moving out. How about you? I look at my first season on the show, Big Brother. Fascinating. Really crazy, man. Man, that's a whole episode in itself.

Just like what reality TV production is actually like, the hierarchy. Kind of miserable. Horrible. Yeah. How horrible all, like, the executives can be. Even though, like, writing staff can be just fucking poo-pooing all over you. I was there for years. And most people never said a word to me.

It's kind of like assembling a PC where each component you're trying to get the most out of. Yeah. That's everything. It's just designed to squeeze. Yeah. And we're, I was bottom of the totem pole the whole time. The whole time. The whole time because, so the show turned union the year before I got there.

Which meant every position you now have to be in the union to do. So if I was there a year prior, they would have been like, pick a thing. And that's your job and you're in that union. Whoa. Crazy. crazy way that that operates but because of that you now have to work non-union days in

that role on something else a certain amount of times or be like begged for to do this job after everybody else who's waiting says no brutal shit but like once you're in you have benefits forever in the union pension yeah it's unbelievable and I left early to go on tour

after I promised him I wouldn't the next season and And so I spent that whole season being like, all right, I'm good at this. My superiors, Danny and Dave Bowman, really like me, and I love them. I bet I could move up. But I do have to leave on this tour. This was the Kings of War tour, Twitching Tons Code Orange. Big tour.

I'd had other jobs before, okay? I'd have plenty of other jobs. But to me, this was a career that I purposefully sacrificed multiple times. I left this career where by the towards the end of the season they're like what do you want to do next year You know wow like where where do you see yourself and I'm like I don't know maybe story department or something technical upstairs Yeah because my dad filled in for a guy named the Dave Something sweet guy you work together no not when I was together the right when I left my dad Started working there so it was like a void a young family void was was filled my brother Aaron did

tape operator stuff in analoging, I think. My aunt flow, I have an aunt flow, if you can believe that. How about that? How often you see her? Not very often. I love her to death.

My aunt Annie. Not like once a month. Love her to death. No, not once a month, much less than many of you. My aunt flow, one of the, like, a key part of Taylor and I was growing up

just because it was like, I think she dated somebody in CFC. What? She was just so fucking cool. And she was a, around a lot and it was just like yo you're dope like and it was the the opposite of our mom's side of the family you know where my dad is and all these southerners but his his dad the military surgeon was like liberal guy somehow oh weird hit my aunt flow from living in all's liberal gal somehow my aunt annie has uh kids one of her kids my cousin ren i believe their name is now non binary super accepting of that um So I have these beautiful family members. My dad gets them all, tries to help them all get jobs.

Flo does tape logging stuff. Aaron is the tape operator, and he's a complete disaster. To the point where I'm wearing a crumb sucker shirt one day, and this guy, Mark Roden, in my first season of Big Brother, was like, Crum suckers, what the fuck? Dude, who are you? I'm like, my name's Colin. I'm from Connecticut. And he's like, I'm from Connecticut.

And I was like, whoa, this guy's awesome. And then we get to talking over the next month And he figures out that Aaron's my brother And he's like, that's your brother Was his real raw reaction I was like, I know He's fine, he's doing fine now His niece, Amelie, my only

My only, sorry, his daughter Amelie, my only niece Yeah Beloved I would kill and die for her And my basically Other niece, Noe, Noel Suzuki I love you so much, love you both so much I could cry right now.

Big brother. You sacrificed. Yeah, yeah. Every season it would be like, what do you see yourself here? Yeah, but I have this six-week tour with Code Orange. Or but I have the disharmonic rust tour. Maybe shouldn't have left for that one.

That one was so bad that the next year was like, I'm going to take this job. And that was the first time. I remember that was my first season of Big Brother where God's Hate went on tour with nails and full of hell and I didn't go. I remember they stayed. They used our van.

It was the only time I've ever been filled in for. Who filled it for you? That was Kyle, because I played guitar. Kyle playing guitar. Kyle playing guitar. That's right. And then just stayed in the band. So that was the only,

that was me being like, yo, people hate this harmony and I think I'm going to kind of quit music. Yeah, remember that. I'm going to get this job. I remember that being like a, Did you hear about Colin? Kind of a thing.

Damn. I remember that being like a thing. Yeah, I was broken. And I had this opportunity to get this job once again. I was fine with that. Started a new relationship. And it was like, all right, I guess this is me now. You know, if I stick at this long enough,

I can maybe make like $75 grand a year one day. And then I think the next, oh, I left for, damn. But Big Brother, working on the show. I have a lot of stories That's a whole other podcast episode I think my NDA is up pretty soon Oh you signed an NDA? Oh, multiple

But I think it's been seven years Wow Since I worked on the show It's seven years Wow Yeah Yeah so hit me up When did adulthood

Hit you the hardest I have A framed receipt from Chase Chase Bank In my living room I've had it for 15 years now, almost to the day, actually. We got back from a European tour. Skyrim had come out.

Oh, man. I got home. 2011. I remember 15 years ago. Got home, got Skyrim. It was with dead end path and brutality will prevail. Got Skyrim. Had no money, right?

And was just like, well, I don't need money. I got my Xbox 360. playing Skyrim, it's snowy in Chicago. I'm set, you know. And that was a really, I was happy in that. I was happy in that moment. And then I got, God, it may have been a physical letter

back at that time that I was overdrawn on my checking account, which would happen to me all the time. If by the end of the next business day after you got the letter, you deposited money and went back into the black, it was not. You wouldn't get charged $35, right?

And $35 would ruin me, yeah. So I was like, I got the thing and it said, you are, it's either 54 cents or 46 cents overdrawn. Okay. And I'm like, well, just got to deposit a dollar. I can do that. I scrounged my apartment. I'm looking under the couch, in between, under the fridge, in, going to the laundromat next door and checking the lint traps. Wow.

I'm going every, I'm doing everything I can. I found a physical $1 bill. Don't remember where it was or like why I just found a dollar, but I found a dollar bill. I walked to the chase and deposit of the dollar and the receipt said available balance, you know, 56 cents or whatever the inverse was. And that was the moment where I was like,

I gotta do something. Yeah. Like this is... This is the most pathetic anybody. This is pathetic. I think I was on unemployment at the time from the job I got fired from. And I was just like, you know,

I was making a lot of money. like 350 bucks every two weeks. And I think my rent was 350 bucks a month. So I was surviving on $350 for food. And I just remember thinking like, I can't, this is no good, you know. I would eventually then get the H&M, or the, I'm sorry, the Whole Foods job,

the fish monger job, that I would leave for an Australian tour where we also made no money. And then started at H&M, which was like the beginning of like, I'm living. Yeah. So it was the first moment of like...

I remember H&M, Bo. Oh, yeah. That was the first... That was the time where I was pretending to be someone I wasn't for sure. Because I wanted to be corporate guy. Because again, I thought like, well, this is what I... Obviously, nothing else is going to happen. Yeah, I remember being like, yo, Beau's pretty high up at H&M.

Yeah. And I was, but it wasn't. But yeah, I just remember feeling this immediate like... Oh, shit. Hey, you're happy and you're having fun, but you're a fucking loser. I felt that way. I'm not calling you a loser. Did you go home and play Skyrie?

of course. So you forgot about it. No, no, no, I framed it. Oh, right. I can't. But you were like, all right, but I'm still going to do it. I'm still going to, yeah, it's not like I could go and get a job right now. But it was very much, I like, I got to do something.

Unemployment's no good. That's a big moment. It was. It was a big moment. And I'm not going to lie to you guys until COVID. Well, H&M I was doing pretty good. And then I quit that to go on Warp Tour. And then until COVID, when I started doing IT stuff,

It was tough. It was scrounging. Man, my dad must have been like a pig, like a literal physical piggy bank the way that I would just find change in places, you know? We would be like, if I can just get 35 cents,

I can get a whopper. I can do that thing. Yeah, yeah. And I would be like, I would check the cushion and be like, lo and a hold, 35 cents. What about you? Adult.

Adult. Pandemic. one bedroom in a new marriage. Yeah. Brutal. You know? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Most relationships did not survive that. Yeah. And ours did. And that to me is like, we've, that feels like we've been married for 30 years, you know? That year just was insane.

Codified. And we've made it work, dude. And like, we hear people talk about, like, you know, people would be like, happy anniversary of my, to my wife, marriage is so hard and we hate each other and it's so hard and we'd always be like, this is gross. And we definitely do not hate each other.

But yeah, marriage is, it is hard. And that's why the whole death due us part, sickness, health thing exists is like, it's going to suck sometimes. You're going to be down and they're going to need to pick you up. They're going to be down. You're going to need to pick them up. And I think COVID, a lot of people didn't get back up. For sure. And that was, to me, that was like, okay, I'm, I need to figure some shit out.

And her being like, yo, you need to figure some shit out is what made me reach out to Jay Weinberg, who reached out to Chris Hudson to Greenlight this show. So thank you, Jay. I will never forget. What did failure look like to you before people knew who Colin Young was in any sense? like what did that I guess what did that what did that what did failure mean what did it feel like

um I think I think giving up on the whole like theater thing was like kind of a big blow for me really yeah it was like man this woman has stolen this thing that I

that I like that I think has been like my one dream and identity so far like I I grew up so this is interesting I've told this before But in fourth grade, I went by the name Bill because I loved Bill Murray.

It was a new school, you know? Your first name is William. Yeah, my first name is William. So I was like, I'm Bill now. And it was just because I had, I loved movies before I loved music. You know, that was like, same.

Movies before video games. Before I really cared about Pokemon, I was watching Home Alone every day. Same. So I think losing that was tough. That was like, that felt like a failure. Did you email her or anything?

Be like, hey, check off this movie. I'm in. No, I should. Yeah. Yeah. With like a scan of my middle finger on a Xerox. I should. Yeah, you really, I think that would feel good.

I think she'd be proud, though, and she'd think she was. Like, wow, I told you what she had to do her. Yeah, yeah. She'd think she was part of that in some way. In reality, she delayed so many things. But who knew if I would have pursued, pursued music in the same way, had she not robbed me. You're much more... It's not like there's subcultural acting and movies necessarily.

There's indie and smaller movies, obviously. But like, you're much more likely to find success in this thing that you had very early and immediate connections to. Yeah, I was super young. Hollywood. Super young. I lived here. Yeah. I was pretty good at it.

I was doing at a professional level when I was 11, you know? But, you know, that... That felt like that was failure and obviously disarmony. I don't need to say anything else about that. That was the biggest failure of my whole life. Failure for me before I was from any band or anything that someone would know would be making mom sad for sure. I vividly remember when we were living at the house in Roselle where she's, I know she's paycheck to paycheck. I know she's scrounging.

We moved to that neighborhood because the high school was really good. But we were the house with the weeded lawn and the lawn. windows that were kind of broken and you know I was in the backyard fucking around with a friend of mine had a red rider BB gun just like the movie and I was on our patio concrete I was shooting at his feet

oh just to like and he was laugh it was my friend Andrew we were at we were both laughing and I'd been shot by the beat it doesn't break skin you know what I mean it ricochade and broke the back patio door oh sliding glass door and

but it did the spider web thing tempered yes and yeah laminated epic and she walked up to like check with the noise was and saw me through it with just you know and she just immediately started crying she wasn't mad she was just like well how am i supposed to let the dog out oh she immediately put it into a sense of like think about what this what you just did yeah not the cost or the inconvenience but just like you're making stuff harder for me and that felt so bad it's not yeah i had a lot lot of those. Yeah,

as did I. Yeah, those happened. Broke lots of windows and drywall and stuff before that. But that was, that's one that stands out

where she just like immediately started crying. Maybe she was behind on bills or something as it was, you know what I mean? And it was just like, oh, fuck.

Yeah. That, that sucked. Failing her in particular is. Failing my mom. Yeah. That, that sucked. What part of adulthood do you still feel unprepared for?

Child rearing. Yeah, fuck that. I shan't be having a child. I may adopt if I'm, you know, at some point, if I'm rich. We were just talking about this last night. You need to be rich to have a fucking kid. I just, I don't, I don't feel comfortable, nor do I have the desire to. I think I'm too selfish with my time.

One thousand percent too selfish with my time. And it's not even. Too distracted. It's not even selfish in like a derogatory sense. No, it's like, I love my time. Yeah, I love being able to come here on a win or being able to travel or like do whatever. with a friend or my girlfriend or whatever like I like just to be able to get up and go and and when you do that and you see the people at universal with the full family or you see the people on

the plane who are trying to fucking miserable but but they're also like outside of those moments they're so much more fulfilled in that way than we are will ever be you know if you're happy if you're happy doing that obviously exactly I'm very happy you're happy being a parent and I I hope you're doing a great job. It's just not, for me. It's tough, yeah. And ain't me, babe. I think that's a great answer.

Mine would probably be death. You're afraid of death? My parents are alive, you know? Yeah. I have reoccurring nightmares about them dying and me, like, regretting, not saying all these things about them. And I know you're never prepared for that. Yeah.

But I would say I'm really under-prepared for it. And, you know, my mom's... very healthy. My dad is shockingly healthy for being a smoker all his life, but I really want him to knock it off. He's not on that that vape shit or anything? No, he's not, dude. He's fucking analog, dude. But he's

a pipe guy. Hmm. Which is, I mean, our grandfather was a pipe guy. He died last year, you know? But my dad's lung collapsed, you know? Yeah, Jesus. They're not supposed to do that. No, they're supposed to... Supposed to be there.

I would say I'm really not prepared for that. And that will that will destroy me, I think, as well as my brother. I know that too. Oh, fuck. That's a crazy thought. That can't happen. I've not even thought about, like, my friends.

Yeah, I can't. I really, and when it happens, it's like, you never stop thinking about it. Yeah. Dude, when my brother, he has to outlive me, you know? What am I going to do? I'll never make music again. We have a friend named Dave who is, if you look at any early 2000s pictures of Chicago stuff, Dave's in all these pictures. He was a pretty emotionally unstable guy.

It was James' birthday. We're all at this restaurant we liked. We took the promo picks for imprisoned, the first harm's way, 7-inch, where we're all in the back shirtless and James Weight rack. While we're taking that, Dave had gotten to an argument with his family. The whole thing happened. He drove off in a car and killed him, shot himself while he was driving. Jesus Christ. Just on the highway.

And that was my first, like, it wasn't somebody's grandparent or a grandparent of mine. It was like. Or even like a loose acquaintance. It was your friend. It was my friend who I, like I stayed at his house. Yeah. And we played poker in his basement all the time. Me and James were there all the time.

And that was the first real like, oh, my friends are going to die. That's just going to happen. This feeling is going to happen. Yeah. It was very very very tragic, but it was also very We were talking about this or is like well I can't do that can't do that I can't make won't do that I cannot you know the way I am about being late Yeah can't make people sad no totally you know and like So many people in my wife's life have died young

Like tragically that I have to see her go through it over and over again and like you know I lost kale that was huge Yeah that and you're never prepared and I just wonder like and this has nothing to do with anybody we've talked about How many people that we know or that our friends know have to die? For people to stop fucking around with drugs, you know? How do you see your friend die from a substance and and ever even look at it again? Yeah. And that's something we'll never understand that obviously.

We'll never understand dependency in that way. because we've never dealt with that. Yeah. And that's a privilege. Yeah. We're privileged to think that way. But man, I'm glad to not understand how anybody can live that way. And I really hope that losing your friends.

Or loved ones. Or loved ones or something, the one positive impact it should have on you is to not do that thing or subject your friends and community to that thing. thing anymore. Crazy. When did you first feel competent at something? That's a good question. That's a great question.

Truly competent in the sense where I didn't need to Oh, you know what's so funny? When I was a kid, I could set up the TV, VCR cable box video game, input one, input two. I could just do it. It made sense to me.

Still does. It ties into building PCs. It ties into pedal boards. It also weirdly ties into plumbing. If you think about plumbing in a signal chain with a guitar, it's the same concept. It's kind of wild.

And it's different from electricity. Like, electrician work is very different. But I used to do that, and I actually remember at the Roselle house, my mom got a new cable system or whatever, and the guy came, I had set it up already because we'd got in the box. And they sent a guy out to set it up,

and then to turn it on. And he came over and said, who did this? Someone come out already? And she went, my son did it. And I was just like kind of sitting there like, you know, probably 10. That's awesome. And it was, I remember feeling like,

oh, I can do that, I'm good at that. Sick ass job, yeah. Yeah. I'd say mine would be after witnessing my brother of the musician flourishing and thriving for years and wanting to be in bands with him, finally being accepted into being one of those bands.

And the first song I presented to him of like, I have an idea for a song. It goes like this and like this and like this. Yeah. And he went, sounds good, let's try it. And we recorded it as is, and it existed. It's called Apocalypse Never. It's a ruckus song.

It's my favorite ruckus song because of that. That to me is the first full, complete idea I ever had. Yeah. And I, to this day, gives me chills. Damn. Yeah. That's my, that's my bad religion seven inch to me. You know, that's my, whatever.

Yeah. That, presenting that to him, him liking it, and it being awesome to this day. That was the first time I was like, I can fucking do this. Did you ever feel guilty choosing this path, meaning hard war? There's layers to this question. There are. Because on the surface, it seems like, well, no. But.

Guilty about doing what we, do here every week. I wouldn't call it guilt. I have felt guilty about maybe exposing too much. Lifting up the curtain a little bit. There's a lot of inside baseball. A lot of inside baseball.

People will often present that to us and offer it to us when we're talking to them, but that doesn't make it a certain aspect of knowing about straight ahead. Yeah, not everything needs to be documented. That is for that is certain. So there's a little bit, I have a little bit of that. There's a little bit of the fast food

thing. We don't eat that much fast food. We certainly eat fast food, but it's mostly because of tour. We don't like corporations. We're merely, it's a means of survival, you know? And, and, you know, that's part of it. I have a little bit of that. Corporate punk guilt. Yeah, dude, we didn't talk about that with Randy last night, or Randy the other week, but he was, in his book, he mentioned having punk guilt about being like a well-loff guy and being a well-known guy and corporate corporate corporate is like a real thing but he's charitable whenever we can be we're not at the point of our life where we can afford to be charitable not yet you know yeah once we are yeah you bet your ass dude yeah that's i'm gonna have the tiniest dog sanctuary you've ever fucking seen i'm gonna save

every small dog even this cat this our beloved omelie who has the same Same name as my niece. She's a rascal. She's a real rascal. And yet if she died, I would weep. You know? She's a sweetheart. She just winked at you.

She loves me. Did you see that? She's my girl. Yeah, I think that guilt will subside if we can ever afford to do anything about it. Which we intend to. Yeah. But, so I do have little bits of that. And there is also just something, just a PSA about I feel guilty about not putting over totally unheard bands.

new demos on the show. Yeah. The reason we don't do that is because you're putting us in a position where we either have to lie and say we like something because we don't want to affect, we don't want to torpedo anything, or B, we're honest and we either do really like it, which is great, and if we find something. And when that happens, we can't wait to talk about it. I couldn't wait to talk to you about the C4-O-P.

Or we have to be honest and we risk torpedoing something. So it's like, we have to allow. things to organically come to us and they often do. But please understand that if you send a band camp link to our Instagram, individually or not. Or if you tell us, guys, I have this amazing idea, react to demos on the show. Brother, I'm not trying to bury anybody. I don't want to do that.

I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. I also reacting channels on YouTube. The guys reacting to, like, Sepaltura. Those are the coolest guys on Earth. We'll never be them. But as a thing, like, that's hacked. That's the hackiest hack. thing you can do. They're like pioneers.

Those guys rule. Buddy hack it. So I don't know nothing against them. But yeah, that's fair. What was the first moment you felt this could work? Now that's a good one. Furnace Fess. Furnace Fest was the one? Traveling

outside of our homes. Out of our homes. Yeah. To a place that neither of us have really overspent time where we were invited and given space to do interviews with bands and and like that was that that to me was like dude we're not we're in a hotel that's crazy yeah the tough wow we're in a hotel for this and it's on it and we get to talk about that next week that is a good one yeah it seemed doable though the following spring into summer where it was

tied down england sound infuri i mean that was like yo this is work but that was when i was like oh this is this is what we're doing yeah that was where it was like here's my passport you know that was that was that was this has this worked this is somehow yeah surreal yeah and here we are almost four years later loud coming up on four years um oh this is this is good this is great what part of this came naturally and what didn't this comes very naturally easy it's the first thing we did yeah and how we've told the story a thousand times but the first zoom call we had when we were trying to set up. We were dying laughing. Yeah. We were just giggling. Giggling.

We love to get it. Um, what doesn't work? What doesn't work? Or what was not natural, you know? Trying to think. I think being learning that like, okay, you're a videographer, you're an audio engineer, you're a producer, you're a social media manager. There's so many little steps that people don't see. Yeah. And like, that even maybe you still don't know

that our consistency is what separates us from the competition and Stephen my fucking boy who's right here on this couch giggling listening to this whole thing he's the third wheel

he's the front of the tricycle we're the back that's very true what he has brought to this program the last couple years creatively technologically emotionally. Because we broke.

Oh, we were broke. I was like, dude, I'm shocked. You can't. You couldn't do it. I can't sleep. I can't eat. Who could? Yeah.

That did not come. Like, and then giving up the reins was tough. You know? And it's still like, I'm zooming with him. Yeah, you're still very hands on. Wednesdays at 10 p.m. Or like, we're on Facebook. The Discord calls putting the reels together.

Wednesday is at 10 p.m. Pacific. Yeah. hours before they go up every week. so that's it's all very hands on there's no ghost puppeteer making this shit happen it's all this room so i'm trying to think if there's anything a little more emotional that can work i mean we had no aspirations of like any like i think people taking pictures with us and like us being above anybody and in any way was never no we don't want that i hate it well i like taking pictures you know I'm not opposed to it.

I have no opposition towards it. We're welcome with it. We're welcome to it. We're so excited about it. And we're so grateful for the support always. Talking about the man on the street type stuff. Yeah. Like if we're doing that,

we're just going to make stuff. It's not like we don't want to take away from bands playing a fest or anything. The last thing we ever want to do is cause some kind of line or walk out in, even to 30 people. Yeah, we don't, I think we don't want to be the center of attention anywhere.

And that's why I kind of, moving forward, if we're traveling and doing something, it'll be more behind the scenes and stuff that, you know, like, FYA has us every year, and they give us the space to make full episodes with people who we would not be able to do it without, and that's the coolest shit.

What, that, that doesn't come naturally to us. I think, I think being like the fucking hard war guys is like, we don't want that. That's not, that, that we didn't choose that. No. And we, and we reject it. Yes. I'll still walk into a room.

room and someone will go, oh Lord. Yeah, it's like, okay. Okay. I get it. Thank you. Thank you. What can you say but thank you? Yeah.

But like, dude, I go home. I wake up the same as you. Same as you guys. I'm just looking for the goop. You know? A little bit of goon. I'll always be music guy first. You know? And this takes away, the last three years,

if I put the same amount of effort and time, and brain power into music that I have this show. But you also started two bands. I did, but that's so easy. That's the easy part. That means nothing, you know? That first album is effortless. That's why I do it so much.

There's no pressure. I see. I see. Going back and following up something people liked or people hated, that's hard. That's pressure. And if I had spent this time doing that, it'd be a different

it'd be a different story any what almost stopped you from doing the show early on you editing yeah I was I was done we had a blowout we had a minor blowout I was driving and I couldn't I was like speech to text quietly

yeah I felt bad and I'm like and I kept being like and again I'm not blaming you yeah yeah yeah but it was just it wasn't at one another no it was just at the situation like I'm dying and we and we found a Life raft. Dude, and then, and it was crazy that we were like, we're looking for an editor.

And I was talking to Steven about something else in that moment. And Steven's like, hey, just saw you're looking for an editor. I don't know why I didn't think of it earlier. I could give it a shot. And I was like, honestly? And I was like, dude, I was like, man, like that'd be crazy. Yeah, if you want to give it a shot, do it. And he was like, gotcha.

But then a couple weeks later, we played the will turn. We were walking. I said, are we okay? And you went, are you kidding? Yeah, that's nice. I brought you a bunch of merch. Yeah, that was beautiful. What was your honest first impression of me?

Dude, so this is one that I read earlier, and I was really trying to think. I knew of Taylor, toured with Taylor. Didn't, I knew of you. I didn't know you. We were in a random group chat. Yeah, I don't. That I have no matter. It was to do with typo merch.

So my first actual impression of you was just like You were funny This guy's got a lot of shirts You were funny You were really funny because it was the European tour And you were always cracking everybody up Oh yeah But then honestly

The Vine guy You were funny So my first impression of you is mostly humor I would say And why watching you at the 2012, this is hardcore, which is watching you guys play. Boing, boing, boy, boy, boy, you know?

Yeah. That was the first time where I saw switching tongues. And I remember being like, oh, he could sing. Thanks, man. Oh, where do they get this from? Oh, they're all wearing the shirts. Yeah, that's very much from, you know what I mean? That was probably the first impression.

All right. I love it. I knew of you because of the tour. Taylor coming home. I loved Harms Way, you know? So I think you've, I've obviously well documented. Episode 1 of Hardlore, big fan,

one of the biggest, someone would say, was Taylor gone on tour of the Harm's Way and me being like, dude, what was Harm's Way? Like, were they awesome? And he's like, yeah, they're sick. Like, you got to meet him. And I think we actually met in the parking lot of Santa Fury, as I've said.

And I remember being like, oh, this is a cool guy. He's nice guy. He's cool. He's cool. I love his band. He must be cool, you know? That's funny. And then, and I think on the tour was where it really blossomed. Yeah, it was where we all became.

Where it was like, I think this is my guy. Yeah, yeah. Very like-minded in a lot of ways. A lot of ways. Very similar. Liked a lot of the same things. He loves mayo and sour cream. As do I.

Yeah, my first impression was, I'm pretty sure this is my guy. You know? And then that just kept going. Yeah. That just kept slowly. Very slow burn. Yeah, it was slow burn. And we got thrown into something.

And I think there was a bit of a, whoa, kind of a buoyancy. Tell me. And now we're, no, just, just, we got thrown into Pardlor. Oh. Where we're, we go from probably interacting every once a while to weekly, if not more. So it was like, there was a kindred. Definitely. There was a kinship strongly formed early that was like, we don't have to talk all the time.

But like, I love what you do, you love what I do. Whenever we do talk, it's like, man, if I live near this guy, we probably see each other a lot. And then we got tossed into a game of D&D during COVID. That's right. And then we would hang out after the D&D after everybody logged off. That's right. You would tell me about the technical Twitch stuff. That's right.

Those conversations would go hours because we were stuck inside. I forgot about the D&D. The D&D game was what really did it. Wow. Roddy King, Barbarian. Brody King, Barbarian. And if you're stronger than him, he's mad about him. I'm a barbaric.

If you have more HP, he's pissed. What do you think people get wrong about our dynamic? You know what's interesting is I think in general, you're a much more extroverted person than I am. Yeah, I think so. I'm a pretty shy, reserved guy. You like, belining right through the crowd on your, you know. I'm a very, I'm not a people person.

And, like, I turn it on when we press record, and I'm going to give our guest everything I have and then when we're done, I'm a shut down. I'm not an extrovert. I'm not, even my wife thinks I am. And I have to be like, you're not paying attention. Because she's like,

she's, hey, how are you? But she's like, I don't need to leave the house this month. Oh, oh, understood. She's perfectly happy being up there with the dogs and being done. And as am I. I like going to get a cup, you know? Seeing my really good friends, you know, I'll hang out with Mac and Brittany seven days a week.

Yeah. That's fine. I'm totally content with that. But I'm not an extroverted person. I'm a very, I keep to myself and I can't pay attention to absolutely anything. So, existing, day to day, tough. Interesting. Yeah.

Very interesting. About you. I don't know. Just, I think it's not so much a UME dynamic. It's a dynamic of the show that is. It's like, you guys got to get X, Y, and Z on. And it's like, we know who we can. Yeah, we know who.

We're working on it. We just had Jorge. You know? Yeah, we've been talking about. We just had the guy from the band we've been talking about for four years. Since episode one. If we want him on, it will happen. It will happen.

And it's going to happen. Mark my words. Gang, gang, gang, gang. What did you learn about yourself through working with me? it is okay and this is also something I learned in in like the band dynamic eventually because it wasn't always that way in the band

it's okay to allow the person with the idea to charge is okay to support the idea. Wow. And to fill the space that might require support because although an idea can be really strong on its own in this medium

especially the way it's presented and executed and the soft skills are also very important. You are a guy with ideas and you are a guy who goes. And I had to learn to not force my fomo and my wanting to be relevant to impede on better as better. To impede on the like, hey, this is all one thing. and is long like just you can do this great kind of a thing that that's something that I've had to learn that's like you can have I have ideas some people might have a lot of ideas and that's

okay we've found the dynamic you know we figured it out yeah and it's tried and true it works yeah people might not realize we have very different styles when we do interviews Yeah. Where Colin likes to be really prepared and to do some serious research, outline almost. I'm writing essays about every fucking guest. I will have five to ten thoughts, and I like to kind of improvise as we go. Certain ones I do a lot. Which helps, which it does help.

Certain ones I do a lot more, truly a lot more. And other ones, I just, especially if it's a friend or something, apart from dates, Because getting dates wrong on this sucks. It does. But apart from dates, I love just talking to my friend. You know. I think that's,

I mean, that's a big takeaway from this is when we do these, the relief that we feel that it's just you and I. Yeah. That's been from the start. From the big. It's like when we decide it's just you and me for a week, we're like, oh, here we go. It's very refreshing and fun.

And, you know, we say that we tell the same stories a lot. But, like, there's a lot of things I'll never talk about on here. There's people I'll never talk about bands I'll never talk about. I got to keep them. Those are where I get my riffs, you know? So it's a constant journey of discovery. What part of our story is never or has never been told publicly? I have sent hundreds of emails to brands and companies and DMs and, you know,

I stopped buying loop earplugs. They fucked us. Knock it off. They suck. Like I know, like you guys, like, they work. Yeah, they're great. But they... They're scumbags.

They just didn't... They... That, that fucking, anything we've advertised for them worked way too well. Way too well. Because they're like, got my loops in. I'm like, bro, they don't get well. They haven't cared about us since 2023. Yeah.

Whereas we've kept every advertiser we've ever had. Yeah, they just ghosted us. And certain, I understand things happen. In that world, there's a lot of turnover in the relations, artist relations world and like marketing relations. People, we've had a bunch of different manscape guys. You know, like it happens. That is a really difficult part.

And we've never really addressed it before. But hey, most of the stuff we have are people being like, did you guys ever? Would you do this? And we were like, yeah. And we'd rather work with our friends than big friends. companies. We'd rather work with a friend or your small business. Yeah, we don't really like working with corporations. We don't work with a corporate thing. We prefer not to. So, send us an email if you got the best one right here. Yeah. That's an untold thing, I think.

Yeah, I think there's, I think how much work it is is what people really don't know. Yeah. And you do a lot of it, and I see it. So I know it's a lot. As the Stephen. As the Stephen does. It's a lot of work, this damn show. But we love it. I mean, ultimately, we were talking yesterday, wrapping those two interviews, just thinking like, what a fucking crazy job, man.

Great job. Like, I really think if we just showed our past selves anything. Hey, keep going. We're like, dude, can you believe this is real? Yeah. I think that's another thing we don't talk about is how grateful we are. What part of yourself feels flattened by public perception?

I have riffs. He does have riffs. I have some riffs. I don't have as many as, Others. Yeah. But I have riffs. Very early on, people would like, people would kind of, just kind of riff on our insider jokes.

Yeah, those are my jokes. I get to say whatever I want about it. Believe me. You kind of relax. I think assuming I have any ego about anything I do when I'm deeply insecure about it all. You don't think you have any ego about it? I have ego about this stuff. I think sometimes I write something and I'm like, that was awesome.

I would say I have a reverse ego, if anything. I think any assumption that there's any, like, that I think I'm superior to anyone is just like so far from the truth. I think the ego thing is natural. The superiority thing is beyond that. You know what I mean? I do think it's like, it's okay for us to be like we're doing something and we've done something and we're reaching people. We're doing a thing that we're providing a resource we wish we had. Yes.

And we're also doing something that anyone really can do, can try to do certainly. We're just doing well. Yeah, yeah. And providing a perspective that nobody else has, which you would do the same if you did it. And watch as a young person. Yeah. How do you protect your private self? I kind of have a new rule of thumb when it comes to social media.

If it isn't funny or pertinent, I don't really share it. Yeah. I think that's a good rule. I don't talk about my relationship at all. Yeah. I deleted my Twitter. People don't need to have access to my brain. Yeah, but he uses the hardler one.

I do use the hardler one. But that's the show. That could be either of us. How do you deal with criticism? I don't. I'm a lead. when like reading comments about my my appearance oh my god dude reading anything about my laugh or great laugh or when i did the subway takes thing i just talked about this subway takes thing where i said the

chicago isn't part of the midwest it's the great lakes which i stand by obviously because i was collabbed on that post every comment i saw and it like fucked me up and that's the dumbest thing ever I should have been prepared for that, but I just wasn't. So I don't deal with criticism very well. And I think I'm getting better. Now I truly laugh about it. I don't care. The other day I read that we suck off Marauder too much.

And it's like... Bro, I've owned this shirt since I was 15. I'm the same guy. I've been me the whole time, and now I just... Happens to be... Now I happen to be... Well, it happens to be cool. How do I deal with criticism?

I have to stop seeking it out. Oh, yeah. It sucks that criticism is like half of art, you know? It's true. Because it's so subjective. And I criticize stuff all the time privately. Yeah. Yeah.

Have you ever left, has adult you ever left, like, this fucking sucked? Other than like the band president who sucks. I don't know, I don't think so That's my point Yeah, I don't think so I really try not to And especially about hardcore music Especially about hardcore

Because hardcore and hardcore crime is not necessary There's musical evil in this world President That's real some real dog shit What boundary did you have to learn in the hard way There's some restricted accounts On the Instagram Yeah, you don't have to respond to everything

No What do you believe in Morse Strongly now than ever. This is a young person's genre. As it should be. It's a genre for the youth. And I am perfectly happy to be an old head. I take no negative connotation to be an unc or old or anything like that.

I'm near in 40. It's happening. I don't care. It's fine. Gray. Got gray. I had gray in high school. You believe that?

I have no issue with that. I take no issue with that. So I believe truly that it's like, When I had, when, last year at FAA when we talked to that band from South Florida. No truth. What was it? No truth. No truth.

They were pitting all weekend. And they were like, yeah, we love ringworm. That is what this is for. That's what this is for. We want to be for them. This is not, this is just like, hey, you know all those questions you have about these bands you love? We've had those same questions our whole lives. Whole lives.

We get it. Here they are. What I believe in strongly is anybody in punk and, you know, anybody in punk and hardcore who can't cut it and ends crashes and burns into a right wing grift is the biggest fucking loser on earth and that no matter what happens to the show if it crashes and burns neither of us will fall and pivot to a right wing conservative grift uh what responsibility do you feel towards our audience honesty and that's why and that's why the There's certain guests where it's like, you don't want me to have that guy.

You can't do it. You know how we feel. It would not help anybody. Honestly, I tell you what I like. He tells you what he likes. Yeah, it's beautiful. And you tell us what you don't like, that we do. And, you know, sometimes we see it.

What do you hope outlives you? I believe the mindset of rejecting, normal will always go on has nothing really to do with me I just happen to follow it right that mindset but it's not something I created or anything like that but I just think I hope that there will always be a 13 year old who's like no yeah because I think there will be that's really important it's just always important it doesn't even matter what direction it really starts just so long as there's people who are questioning everything, you know? I think that that's really important. And I'm obviously speaking more so in a punk rock and musical cultural lens, but I think that

extends kind of beyond everything. Yeah. Yeah. I think when we make every episode, we try not to date it. The only dating that there really is is when somebody has like a new album coming out. But it's meant to be viewed or listened to it at any time. We're archivists. I hope that this remains an archive for which people get their questions that they've always had, the bands they love answer. And also the art that we've made, you know, the songs, the music that we've made, you got to hope that outlives you. You know, that's why it exists. What scares you the most about being remembered? I just think we both want to be good people.

Yeah. Yeah. But you know what, man? No one remembers your great-grandparents, you know. The people in history... I don't know their names. Why? G-G.

G-G. The people in history who we collectively remember are, like, 0.000% of the population. So my answer is, I don't, I really don't worry about that. I don't worry about that. I hope my friends and family think I'm a good guy. That's it. Then, yeah. Yeah.

What would feel incomplete if it ended now? Danzig? Hatfield Araya Or King Or Lombardo Yeah for real Slayer Metallica Danzig

Misfits Jerry Cantrell Anybody from Typo Yeah Yeah there's a lot There's plenty There's a lot of bucket list That we will not stop until we get

Fully agree And then those are just going to open more doors And it's all You know But yeah Headfield and Danzig I think for me Those are top top of the silver two.

What chapter still hasn't been written? I think we have a lot more traveling ahead of us. I think the travel show idea is really fun. And I think that that is, there's definitely something there. Obviously, aside from all the work I'd like to do with this show, so many people I want to talk to you, So many questions I have, so many bands I love, so many albums I love that I just want to ask about.

All the music I still want to write. I got records and records and records and records and records inside of me that have to be unlocked that I'll always write. But this will not last forever. You know? And one day, I don't know when, I'm going to spectacularly log off. I'm going to stay off

just offline and you will never see me again you will see me you'll have a key to the compound but I will vanish off the face of the earth one day and I want you to remember that now I want you to listen real good

you're not gonna know where I am I'll pop out at some shows I'm gonna be gigging so that's it other than that I'll be at the compound how will you know where the shows are I mean it'll be my band's playing you know it'll be like is he gonna show up okay I'll be there

Okay. And I will log off when I, and I cannot wait. I have to be logged on, you know? Yeah. What we do is log on. Yeah. This show is being logged on and knowing what's going on and explaining what's going on a lot of the time.

That's true. One day, mark my words, I'm going to log off, and I'm never getting back on. And that chapter is coming. But for now, I'm so happy to be with you all. I'm so happy to be with Bo. It's the, it is the greatest privilege of both of our lives to be able to do this. It's the best. Thank you guys.

A million times over. Thank you forever, obviously. I hope this wasn't too. I think it was fun. Self-centered or anything. It'll be somebody, we're doing the fucking metal core bracket next week or something. Yeah, yeah. But anybody watching this are the people who would always watch this.

You know what I mean? Especially if you got to three hours deep. They're all right. You're all right. Bo, I love you. Love you, buddy. Steven, I love you. Love you, buddy.

Everybody watching, we love you. Taylor, you know I love you. That's my guy. Taylor Tess, I love you too. Lonna, my wife, I love you. Wow. You know? My dogs upstairs.

They're watching Lord of the Rings. It's almost over. Think about that. Fellowship is almost there. Yeah, they're about to cross the river. Warmer just died. He just died, yeah. He did not fail them.

He did not fail them. He did what most men could not. Don't you fucking start with me. We're going to talk about this off camera. We'll see you all next. week. Bye.