HardLore - CEREMONY: Never the Same Band Twice (With Ross Farrar & Anthony Anzaldo)

Episode Date: September 24, 2026

This week we're joined by vocalist Ross Farrar & guitarist Anthony Anzaldo of the great CEREMONY...From childhood friends to lifelong bandmates, we learn all about their individual introductions to punk and hardcore music and how that eventually lead to the fateful formation of now legendary bay area hardcore band, Ceremony.From the aggressive hardcore origins of their demo, first 7", and first 2 LPs, to their first big evolution and breakout Rohnert Park, all the way to their newest (and possibly best) album Tell Me Your Dream, we discuss everything in between, and the many "Gauntlets" in between that got us here.A thoroughly fun, fascinating inside look at what is truly one of the defining underground bands of the last 20+ years. Enjoy this monumental 3 hour chat.___________ HardLore: A Knotfest Series, fueled by Monster EnergyEdited by ⁠Steven Grise⁠ Title sequence by ⁠Nicholas Marzluf⁠• Join the ⁠HARDLORE PATREON⁠ to watch every single weekly episode early and ad-free, alongside exclusive monthly episodes!• Join the ⁠HARDLORE DISCORD⁠! • HardLore Official Website/HardLore Records ⁠store• Get your passes & tickets to AFTERSHOCK FEST to see the craziest lineup to maybe ever hit Sacramento!• ​Get 10% off ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠MILLS VINTAGE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ site-wide with code HARDLORE.____________00:00:00 - Start00:02:00 - CEREMONY00:04:52 - Rohnert Park, California00:12:46 - Ross & Anthony's First Bands (Hammer Time)00:17:31 - The Origin of Ceremony00:28:39 - RUINED 7"00:43:17 - VIOLENCE VIOLENCE01:01:14 - Pardon This Interruption...01:03:27 - SCARED PEOPLE EP, Signing to Bridge Nine01:12:28 - STILL NOTHING MOVES YOU01:23:15 - ROHNERT PARK01:38:39 - Rohnert Park Live at the Hollywood Palladium01:46:14 - Signing to Matador01:50:43 - The List of Every Ceremony Show Ever01:53:02 - ZOO02:10:08 - THE L-SHAPED MAN02:14:58 - Ross Goes Back To School02:19:43 - Reception To L-Shaped Man02:30:21 - Relapse Records & IN THE SPIRIT WORLD NOW02:39:18 - How Ceremony Handled 2020, Almost Breaking Up02:43:16 - TELL ME YOUR DREAM (CEREMONY'S BEST RECORD?)02:58:01 - Misconceptions of Ceremony03:05:00 - Top 4 Hardcore Records

Hey everybody and welcome to another incredible episode of Hardlore. As I sit in this chair once again on the evening of my actual birthday, I feel nothing but gratitude for the support that you all give this show each and every week, the opportunity to continue to create it, and for the friends and family that keep me going and keep me strong throughout the hardest years of my life. The hardest year probably being this one, but we must persist. It's what we do. And this week's episode brings us the glorious splendor of this long-awaited episode, long in the works, with Ross and Anthony from Ceremony. Now, just a few weeks ago, Ceremony put out what I think is the greatest record they've ever written in Tell Me Your Dream.

And this week, we are going to follow and break down the entire ceremony discography and figure out what led to what I think is the culmination. of their musical career thus far. This week also brought the return of HardLore Records. That's right. Syedine's new LP, Violence in Measure, the young lads from Detroit, these expert crossover geniuses, have made their debut LP,

and it's out next Tuesday. But right now you can stream the new singles, spill your guts, and suffer inside, and pre-order a CD or cassette at hardloremerch.com. please enjoy this unbelievable episode. Hello, welcome. It's our Lord time. How you doing, Bo?

What a special week we have here. Today, I must first introduce, of course, my guest co-host this evening, really in name only because he's also in the van we're going to be talking about for the next day. Anthony Anzaldo of Ceremony, Anthony Family, Cold Cave, ex- Youth, and I'm sure, Skin like Iron for a while. Yep. What am I missing here? That's a good.

That's the brunt. Yeah, sure. Maybe one will start and stop there. Maybe one coming up. Maybe one coming up. We'll see. And to my right, our illustrious guest, first time ever on the show.

One of the defining hardcore vocalists of the 2000s and on from ceremony, fresh off the release of their newest record, Tell Me Your Dream. Please welcome Ross Ferrar. Wow. Thank you.

What a day. Look at them. This is like... Look at them. This is like months in the making. Months, yes. Literally. I know.

Literally. It is, this is long awaited, so thanks for finally being in here. Should we getting it out at all? No, that's, they don't want to... Logistics? That's not what they're tuning for. It was... We did it, you know?

I heard it was our first time you had to cancel, though. That was the first time I ever had to cancel. I got COVID at our own show, and it was the first time I've ever had to cancel, I guess. So, apologies. Thanks for being here. I'm just happy I didn't get COVID. I'm being one person from that never didn't get COVID.

Your wife who's, and let me say, this episode is presented by Heather Bailey's Private Tatoo Studio, which we are currently in, did get it, was on her ass for a week, I hear,

because she was so dehydrated from never drinking water ever. And thank goodness someone was there to feed and nourish. Right. Yes. Both of us. And I was just talking.

and him I got COVID as well. You did? Yeah. So you got it right after Monty's. Oh man. Yeah. That might have been where it started because that was the hottest room I've ever been in. I think so. It could have been the Reaper. And I, you know, I, say it. I thought I got it. I thought I got it when I got to the Bay Area because I went to a meeting of sorts there. There was in a lot of people in the room. This lady was coughing next to me. Older lady. She goes, ah, it's allergies. Yeah, right. And then. five minutes later she leaves the meeting completely and i was like this fucking lady gave me covid but i think now after talking to anthony it was there was a super spreader of that was a major incubation of something i think you got in the bay which is a bummer because i was trying i wanted

to go to ink and dagger a few days later and i couldn't go to ink and dagger and i couldn't do a handful other things and it was a real uh it's a major covid's back guys covid's back and bad yeah welcome back COVID, it's bad. Knock it off. Let's get into it. Ross, where do you grow up and how do you discover hardcore music? I think I know about half of this answer. Yep.

Rona Park, California. Shout out. The rope, RP, RP Playboys. The murder, if you will. The murder. You know, there's a lot of nicknames for it. A very cruel and unusual place. A lot of, you know, hard dagger

type of into. No, no. It was total suburb. Okay. Total weak suburb, you know, San Francisco. Seven square miles, I read. Is that true? Yeah. That sounds right.

Which is what San Francisco is. Look at that. Is that true? Parallel. That's why we have so much in common. Yes. It's a big city. I didn't know.

That sounds small. It's small. But, wow. It's pretty small, yeah. And hardcore, you know, I got into it by way of, I guess, punk rock music. I was into punk right before I got into hardcore. But that was kind of a short stint. I think that was like maybe freshman year of high school.

And before that, I was really into hip hop, underground hip hop, bury hip hop through skating and things like that, like many of us do. And then I got into hardcore through the lifelong tragedy kids. Right? As we both did. I feel this is a band that's going to come up a few times. They were the origin, I think, of that. So lifelong tragedy as a unit of guys.

Yes. Yes. Talk to me. What are the bands that, that get you. When we were, when I was getting into that style of hardcore music, you know, again, like coming from, I was listening to a lot of the UK stuff, so like, crass conflict, UK subs, all that. I had the jacket and everything and, like, it was new. So it was only, I was only into it maybe three to six months, you know, trying to try on different outfits.

And how taboo is that walking around the RP? I mean, people are obvious. Whenever you see somebody with studs in their jacket or whatever, it's just kind of, I think, for older people. people especially it's weird you know i'd get remarks every time i went to the taco bell by our house just for having nail polish for sure like my whole it was every time to this day probably right probably yeah m section taco bell if you're going to the a taco bell and run it park that was a good one you go to the m section one not the one by chilies that was a good one obviously i will keep that yeah yeah you've always said that it's one of my things right but they were listening to music that i of course had never heard of they were listening to like glass jaw and thursday and

And I guess you would call it more metal adjacent band, bleeding through. They were listening to Big in the beginning. Screamo metal. Yeah, yeah. But then, of course, the local scene was like animosity, hoods, all bets off, all that was happening. So it was the local stuff and then the stuff from Southern California. So is Roner Park closer to Sacramento? No.

Because that was... It's about an hour and a half away. It's a little further, yeah. But you know, when you're younger going to shows, you'll go any old place. Yes. So we would get in a lifelong tragedy van and go to West Coast worldwide. Yeah, for sure. Wow.

Big time. And also, I remember you, Ross, because the lifelong guys were, well, I guess there were lifelong guys in your grade, too, Ross Langer, two grades apart. But when we started hanging out with them, you were already into minor threat. Yeah. I feel like they introduced us to, like, the modern hardcore scene. But you were already, like, you already had all, like, the Urban Waste records and, like, Yeah, I was into that stuff.

Like, a gnaustic front. Like, like, Ross was sort of our, because again, like, lifelong was this band that were kind of metal adjacent at first and were, like, really into, like, converge and, like, all, like, the now and now stuff. And Ross was sort of, like, putting us on to the first wave stuff.

Okay. And it was, I mean, I was into it, you know, it was, it was novel for me. It was learning about something new, you know, and it was unlike anything I'd heard before. And I think, you know, I was getting into the, the way I got into, like,

minor threat in those bands, it's probably Napster or something like that. Sure. Or like maybe the local record store. Now, in your mind is urban waste, A.F, minor threat, is that the same thing as what you're discovering locally? Or does this seem like an offshoot of punk and then that what now is hard? Yeah, everything was much different. And that's, I think that was the exciting part of it, you know, because we would go to Gilman and see like, for the crown was a big name that we liked, and Allegiance would play and those kind of more, I guess, like positive hardcore. Yeah.

Post youth crew, kind of like youth crew. More posy stuff. And I was introduced to all that through that, you know. What did you lean more most towards? Was it the hoods

and the animosity of it all or more of the posy? I didn't really dig it as that. I mean, I dabbled in it, you know, and I watched it and as a part of it. It was there. But obviously, you can tell

by the music we started making later on, the things that I've been a part of, it wasn't really my core. You know, no pun intended. Sure. something that really I kind of felt like a tourist and but there was parts of it that I enjoyed too you know so it's more like cultural yeah sure you know yeah that was the moment yeah

and being thrown into a scene you're really the the reason why you're doing all that is to make friends and to be a part of something and to feel welcomed because the way that I was getting into punk or listening to that music obviously I felt a little bit different from my other peers sure I feel like I fit in really and this music really spoke to me the aggression or whatever you know I don't know what it is about kids at suburbia being angry. You know, you think about it, they don't really have much to be angry about because everything is really like safe and beautiful, but something, their angst is just there, you know. I asked myself that constant, I go, what was that thing, you know?

It got me into that. Like subversive culture. I don't know, you know. Is there anything you guys can think of something you guys like that would surprise people? Like, you love Madmo. And not everybody would be like, obviously Anthony loves Mab. Sure. Something along those lines.

With Ross? I don't know. That's a great question. I think a thing that, if I may, speak for you. But a thing that I've always found interesting about Ross and sort of his taste in music is that you're not, there are very few bands and acts and records that you like to revisit. it like he's he loves new stuff so even the records that like we grew up on like maybe i would be more inclined to like throw on like the germs are minor threat or like i couldn't i could never see you throwing on like the adolescence record even though like that's a record you introduced me to

at 16 but like i feel like you are someone that always is trying to find new new stuff i think that's true i think um i do dabble a little bit of everything there's not really stuff that I outwardly hate and talk shit about. It's not really my style. And I was thinking about this actually on the way here. I think a big reason for that is wanting of the new and the novel and all that is like ADHD. Sure. Yeah. Which I didn't really know I had when I was growing up. But now when I'm revisiting my youth and being a kid, I was always getting into trouble constantly, always. I was getting thrown out of class, kicked out of schools, whatever. I've always bit my cuticles and my nails, which is stemming, right?

And I've always tried to find ways of keeping busy. And even like now going to the record store, I get kicks from going to the record store looking for something new constantly all the time. That's dopamine. That's boom, boom, boom. That's like opening the phone, like people say, or getting into the app.

So a lot of this, I think, points to that. That's cool. Having an attention deficit disorder. That's a very positive way to spin something that is an affliction to many. Or going to the thrift store, trying to find a shirt or pair, that somebody used to have that you dig,

like that is a whole part of that whole thing. What was your first band? It was Hammer Time, yeah. Hammer Time. Yeah. Sick-ass name. Hammer Time, yeah. Now, do you name it that?

So, now, do you name it that because locally MC Hammer is a... That was definitely a part of it. Yeah, that was definitely a part of it. I remember going to, like, I think it was Candlestick as a kid, and he would be on the field, like, close, you know, like talking to the players and everything, and then they played the song. We'd be like,

do we talk about this in your... You talk about art? Because he's like historic, like, ass beating. He's the man. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

Tell me about Hammerton. Let's see. It was Jason Woolery, R.J. Phillips. Yeah. Justin Davis. And you. And me. Yeah.

J.D., obviously is in ceremony. He's a bass player. So it kind of started off as a little bit of a joke, I suppose, you know? I mean, there was Duck Hunt was playing at the same time, and we were kind of both in the mindset of just having fun and playing music with our friends and being crazy kids. And I don't know, I guess we didn't take that band very seriously. We just wanted to make fast-aggressive music that was quick

and like 30-second and 20-second songs. And it felt a little, I guess even at the time, maybe too juvenile or something, or we couldn't take it to the next level. So J-D. and I talked about starting a band that was a little more serious, I think. There was a lot of serious bands going on at the time. Big time.

You think about lifelong tragedy. In the band, especially. A nice long tragedy. I mean, there's some serious shit going on. People are taking it very seriously. And you compare it to Duck Hunt. And like obviously us Duck Hunt and Hammer Time were all very close and very similar in sort of like aesthetic. Yeah.

But Hammer Time had more, Duck Hunt was like an overtly joke band. Like that was like the point of it where Hammer Time was clever. But then a song like 6 to 11, the Hammer Time song. It's like as much of an outsider as an insider could be, or I guess the other way around, was that you weren't meant to be in a joke band. And I remember, I don't know if you remember this, but when you were trying to start your first band, Hammer Time, so Ross and I knew each other much longer before we got into punk and hardcore. We were kind of our go-to guys, and I was playing in these days,

I was playing in jealous again, and I was playing in Duck Hunt and Out. and Alex C's band Days of Streaks. And you kept trying to ask me to start a band. And I just like, I didn't want to blow him off. And I remember being at the punk section of Rasputin where it was me, you and RJ from Lifelong. You were like, dude, come on, man. Like, let's do this band. And I was like, I don't know, man.

Like maybe not having like the confidence to be like, dude, like, I'm too busy right now. Right. A lot of bands. A lot of. RJ, I don't know if you remember this. RJ was like, dude, I'll just do it. And you were like, yeah? And I remember being like, I don't know.

have to disappoint my friend Ross. Mm. Yep. Rest in peace. Rest in peace. So RJ, who we spoke about, who was the guitar player of Hammer Time, was the guitar player of Lifelong Tragedy, who's like, sort of him getting into hardcore is like, we're all downstream from sort of like him doing it.

Very influential. And he was a bit of like a ringleader, proprietor of sorts. He brought a lot of people together. He was very serious about the music scene, the hardcore scene then. Right before he died, a couple of things. he sent me a video of our second show, our second lobby show. Hammer time.

No, no. Ceremony. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He sent me a video that he had taken, I suppose, of Ceremony Second Show at the Phoenix. But, you know, he was very much like driving a lot of the time to these shows and he was in cahoots. He made it should happen. Big time. Clearly it sounds.

Big time. Do you remember the first thing you wrote lyrically that made you feel confident enough to keep doing it? for the rest of your life. That's really hard to say. Because Hammer Time had a bit of levity, I think I said, you know. But he's saying...

Skate or die, maybe? Okay. You know? Because there you have, you know, life and death. You know what I'm saying? You have the line in the sand of sorts. Skate or die, you know. It's a philosophy many still live by.

And this is the thing that always constantly comes up in ceremony is like polares and contradictions and paradoxes. It's always that. So it's kind of, yeah, absolutes. So I guess that was probably when I started going for it. But I don't, and I've been thinking about this myself, like, when did I start taking things more seriously? I guess it was when we started getting into the movie. Because you took it seriously before he did.

Yeah, I think so. You saw the potential. He took music seriously for sure. But I mean, he took you seriously as a vocalist and a lyricist. Well, of course. I mean, like, when we, so when ceremony started, well, even before that, again, like, he, Hammer, had the song 6 to 11 that is a great hardcore song and it did have 11 it it was significantly more elevated than like what sort of the scene was projecting onto ceremony and definitely been with like a lot

of the our contemporaries but then when when ceremony started he had the lyrics most of the lyrics to the demo if not all the lyrics yeah we would try and write a song we we we were trying to write cursed I don't know if you remember this but we were trying to write cursed and like it wasn't working in your eyes. But we were just like it has to be, the music has to be as moving as the lyric is. Because we knew what the lyric was before we started writing the song. That's huge. So we weren't fast. We weren't just like, it'll, it'll, we definitely did not have a, it'll work itself out mentality. Like we, we really felt that Ross's lyrics, you know, to that demo were like of, of meaning and we really tried to sort of live up to it with, which is maybe

Maybe the first time in the history of hardcore music that that has been the case for the band's demo. Of course. Totally. Sure. Yeah. So how does ceremony start? That's probably more of a question for Anthony. I mean, I know that we were playing in Jake's bedroom or garage.

So me, you and JD, I don't know if you remember this. So once Hammer Time was done and a few of the other bands I was doing were done, it was like, okay, let's finally meet us do this band. So it's me, you and JD. kept practicing with other drummers. We did that practice with Kavan at Kavan's house. We played a couple times with Jason from Lifelong. And it was cool stuff, but we didn't find our thing.

And I think J.D. knew Jake, because they were closer in age. And they started doing a band called Jump Street. So it was like, well, let's just Jake, Jake's parents lets him play drums in his house. And he lived. Huge. And he lived like a walk. distance from myself and Ross. So we kind of met Jake through JD's suggestion of him being the drummer in ceremony.

And by proxy because it was so close. And by proxy. Why not just go over there. Dude, how many bands have been created by proxy? That's it. Yeah, yeah. Totally. That's unbelievable.

And I may have mentioned this, you know, on our episode years ago, but we were the only band in that because there were so, like all scenes, right? There's so many bands that share. And there's like, there's like 10 people. but there's 10 bands, you know? To this day. We were the only band from the North Bay that did not share members of Lifelong. And Lifelong was a real, like they had gone to Europe.

They were like, they had a record on vinyl. Like they were a real, like they took the band seriously. They were touring in between, you know, in between school years. So all bands from our scene were sort of like, you know, at the mercy of Lifelong schedule. And we were the first one that, that, that, That wasn't. So we were able... When they're busy, you can play anything.

Yeah. So exactly. So that's really, I feel like the combination of us finding a drummer, Jake, and us not being bound to lifelong tragedy schedules, what really was able, was able, you know, what allowed us to, like, really be a band. What is the dynamic like between you guys when the band starts? The band starts? I mean, we're like...

I think we're all happy and joyous and free. Yeah, yeah. I think we all loved each other pretty much. I was J.D. and I were like the best of friends. We were one grade apart in school. J.D. and I were really tight in elementary school. Anthony and I had known each other already a bunch before that through just, I was friends of his brother, Miles.

That's how we. So I don't know. I may have toyed to this. I probably have, but you probably forgot. Our man. Yes. I forgets. Forgetful.

So an elementary. school at Montevista Elementary School in Roner Park, shout out, shout out, M section. Ms. Wheeler, she was. You didn't make it easy on her. Let's just say that. She was just fine the way she was. You said you were always

getting it. Let's just say you didn't make it easy on this room. But you had a condition. I did. I had a condition and untreated ADHD. Exactly. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So I was thinking about this recently and so you're, Ross is two grades older than me. So when I was in second grade, you were in fourth grade. And we didn't, you know, the grades didn't commingle.

You know, it was only like at lunch and recess where you ever... Second grade to fourth grade is a little baby. Yeah, he was an adult, right? But I remembered Ross from the recess playground because Ross would normally be solo hacky-sacking in a... You sack? In a likely Green Day dukey shirt and a flannel. Something like that.

Alternative. So I was like, so I thought about that. this because I wasn't into rock or alt culture then. Sure. I was into Prince and like R&B stuff. I think Ross, you were my first ever example of someone who is alternative. Yes. Dude, that rules.

And Miss Wheeler, the old bag, she had her eye on me. Across the way, just shaking her head. Because you were this outcast, Loner, green-haired piece of work, man. And you're sure it says, dukey. I mean, come on. I had the poster, the dukey poster. Check it out. With all the crazy color.

Well, I guess it was more like a Where's Waldo type situation. It's all the different caricatures. You got to find the Duky or whatever it was in there, middle of that. I don't know. And the tape, the blue tape, huge. You still have this? I don't. Well, I just recently got a tape.

A friend of mine, Michael Antinino sent me a tape from the Duke. But I don't have the original. And Rage was a huge one then, too. Those two were very much like. Green Day, if you're listening. Get it back. So he mentioned you have. a ton of lyrics written for the band when it starts.

Are these written for the band? I wouldn't say a ton. I had compiled some thoughts. I was just then entering, I was right after high school, I was just then entering Santa Rosa Junior College. I didn't really know what I wanted to do, and I didn't really know that until maybe 10 years later,

but I had a little journal. I was taking English classes, among other things, and astronomy. So I would jot down little notes. And I was listening to all this. crazy music, caustic music. So I was like, okay, let me try to see what I can do here. So I had maybe a couple pages worth of writing.

So pack your fist full of hate, how does that come about? Do you remember the day that lyric is written? I think I was sitting in the old library of the Santa Rosa Gere College writing something. I have this memory, but as we know, memories can be perverted by other things, right? And they get erased and they get replaced with other stuff. But I think I was in the original library writing something down before. the classes actually started. I was like, you know, gathering my paperwork and things. Fuck this class.

Yeah, dude. Santa Rosa. A beautiful place, nonetheless. But here I am, of course, pissing on everything. Mr. Schultz, right? Just pissing it off, man. Any Charles M. Schultz? Did I hear Mr. Schultz?

Yeah. Mr. Schultz is also a teacher at Montevista elementary school. He was... Probably. I've never thought of Mr. Schultz being related to Charles Schultz. Because he's the pride of Santa Rosa, right?

He's the pride of the North Bay. They had a similar kind of look, even, too, maybe. They must have been related. Did he talk like, wah, wah, wah, ha. He was. He did talk funny. He was very monotone. He was peanuts like, man.

Yeah, he was tall and monotone and dry. Wow. Wow. You're welcome, guys. Could be. Did you have Mr. Schultz? Or did you have Ms. Nuddin? Loved him.

He was a great teacher. He was the first teacher who I actually had felt kinship towards. It's because he taught sex ed. Did he? I don't remember that. Horny. I had him for fifth grade. Porning.

And he was, he was, he was, he felt some kind of camaraderie with Mr. Shultz. You know, I remember him waving, I remember him waving goodbye to me, okay? There was a sunset. I was on a bicycle possibly. He waved goodbye to me. He had this big shit eating grin smile. That's all it takes, teachers. Smile.

Just a smile in a way that us. And be related to the greatest, uh, yes. Children's illustrator in history. Yes. So ceremony. skips a demo altogether, essentially, right? No, we did demo. You did a demo?

We did a demo. What's on the demo? So most of what is on ruined. Right. So it's like, it's a, it's a demo in a sort of, and not like the traditional hardcore sense in the actual meaning of the term. Yeah. You know, we, it was our first demonstration of most of the songs.

Does this get to the public? Oh yeah. Yes. Okay. But, but we made a tape. And then, but we sold it at like at the lifelong table. No, no, no. There's a preempt to this.

CDRs. Do you remember the CDRs? But those were next. I thought they were first. No, no. Oh, no, the tape was first. You forget. Yes.

Yes. The tape was first because we started, we did the demo on CDR because the tape was so labor. Okay. Of course. Yes. That makes more sense. But then once we signed a malfunction, malfunction said stop selling the demo. How quickly does this all?

all happened. Real fast. Well, we didn't, we did this demo right. We gave it out mostly to people, right? Yeah. And then the CDRs, I had a bunch of CDRs. I came down to L.A. for, I guess it was like maybe make a move and a couple other LA bands that were playing, and Lifelong was playing on a trip.

IA. Maybe. Maybe Internal Affairs or something. And I was just giving them out to people at the show. Give them out the CDRs in hopes that people listen to it, catch on. And then in a month or two later, when we play our first show, people would like the music. Which is like exactly how things used to go. Yeah.

That went a long way. Free CDR at the IA gig? Yeah. I think so. Next big thing. I think so. Yeah. Now, does this demo make waves to get signed to malfunction?

Or is it more just you get switched up or? So that happened. So Alex C was our second guitarist. He played the first. He played on the demo, played the first like seven shows. And then our next guitar player, Ryan, he joined the band and he toured with the nerve agents. He was their roadie who Linus of one half of malfunctioned

did a lot of shirts for. So they knew each other. So we were able to get the demo to Linus and the malfunction. Because that was sort of our only like... A lot of connectoids. In anywhere, you know? Malfunction was popping. In 2006, five?

Yeah, so they agreed to put it out in 2005 and then... It came out, ruined came out the end of 05. Bar fight, dude. Bar fight? Yeah. Let's talk about making ruined. What do you remember from putting together this initial batch of ceremony songs? Zach? Zach Oren.

Oren. Excellent. Engineer? Yes. Yes. He was a big computer guy. I remember that. It was computerized, right?

Digital. Digital recording? He liked digital styles, man, this guy. Yeah. Which people, a lot of people were still analog at that time. 808s. You had 80s? I don't know.

We didn't have them somewhere. So we were... Pack your... Yeah. Yeah. We actually recorded it ourselves first at the Jell's again practice base in Oakland with our friend Sean just in a practice space, mic, sent an interface because we... Live.

We didn't want it to sound that good. Okay. We just didn't see that path for the band, like a polished, like, clear sounding recording. Like that wasn't what we were into at the time. And it sounded really bad. And I, and it sounded really bad. Crunching. And True said, hey guys, this sounds worse than the demo.

And five of the songs, four of the songs are on the demo. So then we went to Zach, which is such a funny thing now because we recorded in like five. The whole record took like five hours, the whole seven inch. And it was like still very. you know, it was, looking back now, it was not the most professional studio or setup of all time, but to our,

perfect for what it is. Like 18, 16, 15, 15, 19 year old brains, it was like so pro. So we resisted Zach and Cass Ultimate for a while. Then we were like, okay, this needs to sound a bit more elevated. Yeah. And when I say computerized,

I remember him being behind the console, computer with all the screens and blah bl blab-blibing bong. And lifelong tragedy, I went to their record. And there was a lot of him doing this. And it confused me because I was like, aren't we supposed to be playing this thing live?

Like, where are all these computer-generated things happening? Yeah, but then you do the studio practice recording and you hear how dog shit it is. And then you see what the bloops and the bloops all really did. They're important. So we really got a malfunction got us on posy numbers because I remember Linus did. Linus did the artwork for the positive numbers poster in 2005.

So in exchange, he asked if they could put on this new band. It was like our eighth or ninth show or something. It was so, we had no business like driving across the country on a demo playing like the hardcore fest. Yeah. Which it was at the time. Which it was. And then I saw true recently and I was like if it wasn't for that and if it wasn't for you insisting that we not put out that first ruined. Like we wouldn't.

Who knows? I do know. We would have been ruined. Yeah. And I'd been to the posse numbers a year before. I flew out to that. Two years before. You went in 03. The fire station.

And then we all went in 04. Yeah, that's right. And who got you to fly out there? Who are you psyched to see in 03? Probably frostbite. I like that. And I remember a striking distance, I think, played. Unbelievable.

A lot of the other bands I didn't know about, like, I walked into mental. I walked into the seven-inch being sold. And there was like, kids were like, get me 10. Yeah. Like, what's going on? And then I watched mental and I didn't really understand. And then, you know, I get into frostb-I jump into frostbite. I step into the pit and immediately get knocked out.

Lights out. Out cold. Temple, out-cold. Someone picks me up. He's like, he, little guy. Come on, get off the floor. And then the rest of the time, it was like me kind of looking through records and getting interested.

How was striking distance? Striking distance was amazing. Yeah. One of the greats. But, you know, they had like, I remember getting the knife fight seven-ins. there, which is really up my alley. Some of the other stuff on my war, that was really incredible and pivotal, I think, at the time.

So with Ruin, much like many of your classic California punk and hardcore predecessors, track one of your first seven-inch defines the rest of your life. I suppose it does. And you're still playing several of these songs today. Yeah.

How do you reflect on this record now? We do it for the kids, of course. The kids love it and the kids want it. And it was a time in our lives that really kind of shoots back to origins, of course, and how we got started. So we like to play it. I think it's just almost a part of our general makeup now. It's like we play it for you and you hopefully love it.

You don't play it for you anymore. I mean, I suppose I do. But like I say, it's a part of my DNA now at this point. It literally is. Yeah. So I do it for me too. but obviously, and this gets talked about a lot in other interviews, like I don't really obviously constantly feel,

pack your fistful of hate, you know, take a swing out the world. I think that a lot of that, and I've come to understand this now, you know, when I was younger, everything was happening to me, you know. I was the center of the universe. I was a victim in all these different ways. The world was so fucked up. It was really the world is, of course, not doing anything to me. Things are happening around me, right?

Things don't happen to me. They just happened. and sometimes I notice and sometimes I don't. So I think that now it's more so just passing me by a lot of this stuff. And I don't take so much, like, you know, I'm not too offended by things as I used to. I didn't take things so personally. Sure. Yeah.

Most things suck all the time for everyone. Exactly. Exactly. But, and that's why that message is so eternal. Of course. Everybody's angry. And I feel, of course, I still do feel like that from time to time throughout the day, you know, it'll pop up.

Throughout the day. Yeah. This sprouts up at usual times and places. I always describe Ross as like, there's a lot of people, there's a lot of, obviously a lot of genuine people in our community and that we know. But there are a lot of tourists and people who arrive here for aesthetic or, you know, social reasons. And a lot of, sometimes there are.

a lot of people who present subversive or left of the dial because that's how they feel they have to act, but they're like civilian at heart. Right. Where Ross is someone who I've known since I was in the fifth grade is one of the truest weirdos subverses ever who is constantly, my view of Ross's always been the inverse. Like Ross doing his best to acclimate to... to civilian society, but yet in his heart and in his DNA is a true weirdo and subversive in all definitions of the word.

It could be. I think so. Could be. It could be. It could be. That could be true. It's so interesting what's going on here with early ceremony musically. And I know we talked about this in your episode many years ago, but like it doesn't not sound

sound like Hey Breed Under the Knife, you know? Like, it sounds more like it than it doesn't. I love that record. Yeah. Maybe that's, maybe that's the, to answer the question. I mean, that's the one for me, you know. I dug perseverance, but under the knife was the one for sure. The look of it, everything, too.

It's like, you know. Monkey. Raw. Yeah. It's raw. But what else were you guys doing music with them? Other than Under the Knife, obviously. I mean, we were really.

into infest. Yeah. Yeah, we're getting into that. And then, like, the new, like, there were so many, there were a crop of newer bands that were really, like, outbreak was really fast. Yeah, outbreak was really cool. Outbreak.

About just hating, hating people that used to be your friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know. Yeah. Negative reproach. Negative approach. I mean, like. I bought the, I bought the second pressing, which I always say it's the first pressing,

but it's actually the second pressing. It's the red label. I bought that early on in Hammer Time days, like, towards the end of the hammered time. I still do, yeah. Red devil records? Red devil records, yeah. The motherfucker said it was a first pressing.

Oh, that sucks. Come to learn it's a second pressing. Yeah, but the difference, black labels. Now the difference in pricing between the first and second pressing is probably... 700, 800, 900,

for the second press, but like 2,000, 3,000 for the first. Here's a question for you. As, I don't know, are you... You're a physical media. You got a lot of print stuff. Uh-huh. Oh, yeah.

If your home is on 5,000. You can save one record. What do you say? I mean, it would be that for sure. That's my favorite of all time. I would say that would be. If I were to guess what his would be, I would say. What would yours be?

Maybe one of like the ceremony. I think I may have the only complete ceremony collection. In the world. In the world. So maybe like the demo tape or like the ruined test press. I'm waiting for antidote That'll shall not kill a good old pressing of that For a fair price

That would be the I would take those as a bundle Because I'm obsessed with that record That's too good Yeah what is that What's I mean that's kind of There's the $1,000 going rate For like first press

New York HarkCore EP is kind of Kind of the norm right now I just man you know Some people did clothes And they buy expensive clothes And it's similar And you know like But to pay $1,000 right now

For a 7 inch I'm just not quite there Yeah 200 Usually it's my top. You know, but like, I've got to really enjoy this. You got to save it from a burning building. Yeah. I got you.

So from my point of view, seeing Ceremony as a new band at this time, you guys are like on top immediately. You know, and I'm not mincing words here. What are these early days and early shows like? Do you feel like there is kind of like an awkward growth period for Ceremony? it just explosion? It was, I think, like anything, a steady growth upward, you know, a steady incline. I do remember our first show, and our first show being Cold World Blacklisted Allegiance, lights out, internal affairs, snake eyes. And nobody else has ever had that first show. Yeah. And that was

our second show, too, because the next night, it was, we played the Sacramento show of that, of that tour. I vividly remember saying this is the first time I've ever seen anybody sing along for any of my bands that wasn't a cover. First show. At our first show. Interesting. You never told me that. That's cool. The wall is there and the writing is on it.

It was the free demoing, you know, giving it out to friends and stuff, you know, and they liked it. I mean, I do sometimes feel like you're in a tight-knit friend group. Anything you could have put out, they would have listened to it and probably liked. You'd be surprised. But I think this is good. Yeah. This is good music. It's a good record.

And it has stood the test of time. They were all really good at their instruments, too, though. You know, like... So you hear... But you were kind of a stickler in the songwriting process because you were like, guys, I got straight heat here, and I need you to step it up. I just wanted it fast.

You know, I wanted it fast. I did want it a certain way. I was like that. Thankfully. You were the older guy, right? Yeah, I was the older guy. I was kind of the... I was pointing and shooting at sorts, so, you know, I don't...

Once you finish the Ruin record, do you guys feel good about what ceremony is, what the mission statement it is, and the record you've made? Definitely. Yeah. I think we're really proud of that record. I mean, like the Ruin 7-inch, it felt like every song had its moment. Yeah, it was cohesive. It was cohesive. You know, every...

Backs and low. It ups and downs. Yeah. It's got it all. And in like five minutes. And when you go to throwing bricks, it goes into the breakdown in the Mosh part. It's like, that's what I mean by the highs and lows. It goes into a slower part.

It goes into a faster. Dude, and that's what I'm dead. This record is full of mosh parts. A lot of mosh. We were also, I mean, like... A lot of moshing. Obviously, in our own way, but, like, pixies were the quiet, loud thing. So I feel like, you know, and who doesn't...

Who doesn't fucking love the... Yeah, exactly. So it's like, we were just really into, like, the dichotomy. it's like a concept. I mean like our first like that record sounds like what it sounds like but all of our aesthetic was like was floral and roses. And even dude you listed

as a lot of the PV stuff I mean it's the same way. Yeah. Hard crossed out. Really hard mush heavy parts lighting fast. Lighting fast part. And then it comes back. I mean it's something about the drop when it comes down like those I mean the crossed out records

are just like incredible for that. That was huge on us in the first year of writing. This is powerful man. You guys had this instinct of like if you're going to, you use time to build dramatic space and then the song would happen in this brief little window and explode. And then you do that live and then people

are still moshing through the silence essentially. We're just like, I think we're just a bit dramatic by nature. Yeah. also a lot of drama we're just like yeah to the time just kind of loud personality is true at birth which the drama I mean and my nature right by definition drama is what makes things exciting essentially right you got to have that or else if it's if something's just one way it doesn't have a change just like a just like a poetry they call the the turn of Volta you get towards the end of the poem and there's a quick turn

there's a quick change and literally real it is as a surprise and what that surprise does is it gives you delight it gives you this kind of like dopamine essentially or or hit of some kind and you do the same thing in music you know what I'm saying I feel like especially we definitely honed in on that I think

hardcore without payoff it doesn't stand the test of time 20 years ago this year your debut LP violence violence Mazel on 20 years Thank you. Unbelievable. Oh, baby. Yeah, you did it.

Walk me through the writing and recording and overall creation of this record. How do you go approach LP one? So this was our first... This is hard. Because, you know, if you count the demo as one and ruin as two, it was our first record going in two where you didn't have something to give us. So it was kind of like violence violence was when we started. started writing kind of the way we write now, you know, where it's like, we're kind of like,

we're kind of auditioning riffs and parts for Ross to be like, oh, I like, I could, I could sink my teeth into that. And you're still orchestrating. Oh, my God. Yeah. Brother. Yeah. There's some of that.

For better. Sure. For better. Control. It's control. For better. We love control, unfortunately. So it was our first, it was different.

in that way where we're now like there's nothing there's sort of no blueprint you know we're now in the kind of like for the first time I'm in this together because Ross you know didn't have already you know written lyrics and ideas

so we're figuring out I do think I want to put this I want to put this to an end which was this which was the last song we wrote for Ruin which the last song ruined kind of informed we were really proud of that song

and it was the most recent song that we had written. So I feel like that sort of informed violence violence. Which is like that on all the releases. It's literally a pattern for ceremony. Is there something that's like, you can tell you guys are really excited about this new idea that then spawns into the whole next idea. It was when, and I feel like that allowed us to get like really dark.

Like I feel like that's when like the sort of like the darkness that is balanced violence and then really heightened. It's something that moves you and is on scared people that, the EP in between, that starts and we get comfortable with that, like, more augmented chords and diminished chords and notation. Like, that really starts at violence violence. There's more freedom, more freedom to kind of get weird with... You got to be...

First LP, you've got to figure out what you are. Mm-hmm. And you remember being so nervous to show you the intro to violence violence. Yeah. Just intro, because I was so... Because it kind of, like, the buck then, like, kind of stopped at Ross. Like if he didn't like something, then like it wasn't, you know, it wouldn't be, it just wasn't going to happen. Sure.

And I'm going to be like, I hope he's into this because I love this thing and I just saw how, I saw how it could be a great. So dark and weird. A great. It's perfect. Yeah. So I was like, I mean, come on. Fucking thank you. Perfect.

Well, and there was, like, we had no instrumental song at this point. It's menacing. Yeah. It's menacing. And hardcore was in such an interesting place in 2006. We never really felt like we were so. obviously appreciative that like the sort of like hard i mean there are many scenes there are many like subsets of punk right and like even in in hardcore but like the the scene that sort of accepted us and

latched on to us like so thankful obviously but like musically genre wise like it was a bit confusing for us yeah because we're like we feel like we sound more like other things but like the band those bands that were more like in other worlds that we felt like we fit with more musically or aesthetically like just didn't give us the time of day so we're like fucking we would thank you for having us here yeah you know what I mean which I think is kind of indicative of the Bay Area punk and hardcore scene you know there was a lot of different styles of hardcore being played there was like powerhouse and then of course bands like for the crown which I've already mentioned and they were more like

a amazing core like they were they were yeah grandios and all that soft was strange too because they had metaly parts but they were also all sorts of parts and it was all meshed together so i think in our minds and i've talked about this too in other and other interviews but just the music diversity of the barrier and the history of all the music that happened there and the stuff that our parents were into and the other kinds of scenes that were going on all around us at all times of day and hour I mean, it was, that's how we grew up. So we kind of pulled a little bit off from that.

And that's what made us sort of weird, I think. It is like inherent. The Bay Area is inherently the sort of like left of the dial sort of like counterculture. So like embedded. Even if you look at like, like, Slice in the family stone is like so much zanier. Yeah. You know, for lack of a better term than like a lot of the other like Funk and Soul stuff like that was happening. And you look at the early like 87 like we have Operation Ivy.

and then like you know but down here it's like bar religion and then like over there is you know like youth up today like there's just like the things from the bay that were always that always worked and was the most honest was the stuff that was like a bit you know more like subversive by nature it kind of feels like every generation some some bay area man like resets the meta of what's going on in a way at least in California I mean right now it's tsunami and drain

two of the biggest bands and underground music. The pressure's on cover on this record. This is one of those rare covers where it's just kind of yours now. Yeah. Whose idea was this?

Wow. Yeah, I got it from Rockin' From the Crypt. I heard their version first, before I heard Red Sea. But I had an early version of Flexure hit, so I don't know, maybe it was kind of around the same time. We knew it was, we knew it was, like when you brought it to the table.

For sure. We learned about the history of it, But I think the first time I heard it was Rocket from the Crypt on All Systems Go. They covered it. It unfortunately does sound like you're saying balls on my back. Yes. Yes. Which I do say actually on the record.

Okay, good. No, he doesn't. Man. I wish I did. Stephen cut out the part where he says he doesn't. Yeah. This ends up being a big year after this record comes out. You guys do a ton.

Do you properly do like a U.S. tour in 2006? We do two. We do a full U.S. with Lights Out. Yeah. In the beginning of summer, our first full tour there, Lights Out's last tour. Wow. And then we take about a month off. It's so funny how we all did it back then because then we toured with Goat Alone.

And it was we played a lot of the same places. But you didn't think about it. Yeah. You couldn't, we couldn't play enough. But there's something to that. No, for sure. Why this works is because like, okay, I like this band's record. I'm going to see them twice this year.

And now it just doesn't, it doesn't work the same. It's not possible. I think it, I hope that it works the same with new bands. Because when you're starting, there is, obviously, there is a period where you could play too much. after you've been a band for however long or how, you know. But before then, you can't play enough. And I hope that sort of like younger bands don't look to like how older or more established bands tour as a sort of blueprint.

I hope that they just like, you know, if you've been a band for under two years, you need to play as much as possible. Go do the 90 day thing. For a litany of reasons to get good at playing and to. You know, and like then 30 people felt like a million people. Yeah, for sure. But only 30 people, so maybe next time there's 40. Yeah. And just to experience the culture of that.

Yeah. And like, I guess the kind of, how would you say it, the history of doing that as a punk and hardcore band, touring all the time, playing little places, doing the vets hall, doing the parking lot. I don't want to say too much about like putting in your dues because I don't think it's quite that. I think it's just for your own interlorn. life just to experience that and do it. I think it's a wonderful thing for a person to do. And I think the circumnavigation of all that, I was going to pull out a party trick for this interview.

There's a gentleman who sent us a tour history. He's followed every single show. He wrote down in a PDF file of all the shows we've ever played and the bands who played with us and the places and the dates. So you can pick a date and I can look at this list and be like, where, what city were we in around that time or close, or you say, pick the closest date to that date. and it's been, you know, 20 years of that list growing. I'm not sure if he still makes the list,

but a few years ago I emailed him and he sent me an updated version of it, which is pretty incredible. Now, does anything specific come to mind story-wise from these first two tours? Any big events? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

What can we say, though? I mean, what can we talk about publicly? Well, I mean, we weren't a little bad, but there's stuff that involves. like other people. Yeah. I mean, like, a thing I remember, our first tour we played Richmond,

Jake and JD were enjoying... inebriated. We're doing their best to enjoy some wacky tobacco. Uh-huh, yes. And the person that we were, that they were staying with, because I remember we split up, they were with like the lights out people and the person who owned that house came out

and like this is in the days of like, you know. Straight of revenge. Yeah. And like I do not condone their use of marijuana. We're straight of revenge. But they got like lit up by the person that they were staying with. I told me get the fuck out of here. And I'll never forget the confusing, perplexed looks.

They thought he was kidding. They had on their face because they're California boys, Northern California. We smoke weed every day. all day you know all of us not all of us but you know some of us from our from our little group only edgeman uh and at the time uh at the time i mean old ryan was he on that tour ryan was he was on tour yeah so him but they're in ronner park living okay their way of life is their way of life when these guy comes off the porch and says what the fuck are you doing get out of my property for smoking weed they were like they thought he was kidding they're like totally mad you want some

and then like what is happening right you know but my Mind you, while this yelling and all the things were going on, a fucking torrential downpour came, a deluge of rain came down, okay? Wow. And it just crushed everyone. And so we ran into wherever we were going to car or whatever, and there didn't, there wasn't any physical authentication.

But there would have been. Until a month later. Until a month later. We played Nancy Reagan. The real straight-edger revenge happens, baby. We played... It always does. We put our show with Go to Alone,

and the gentleman Moshed Jake in a way that seemed intentional. Let's just say that. Yes. And but so at the time, I remember all of us being so scared because we knew how Richmond and Gorilla Crew rolled. We're like, fuck, dude, we're going to get our fucking ass beat tonight.

And Richmond was so straight. So straight. And we have been touring for, like, we're not, It's not like we're a ceremony, this band's been tour for 20 years. This is our second tour. Yeah. So we don't know any of these people. You know what I mean?

And I remember Foster, Dave Foster, now dear friend. One of the greats. Comes up to us, like, fuck, this is it, dude. He said, about tell us that we're going to ask to be. And he was like, I just want to say, I'm really sorry for my friend. Like, that was uncool. Like, I hope that that doesn't, like, reflect on, like, us and, like, the scene or whatever. And we're like, I remember feeling so relieved because, like, we didn't have any of our people.

You know what I mean? I thought we were going to get our ass board. We're about to get rolled. I thought we were about to be rolled. For sure. And we didn't. A bunch of them surrounded me. And I was like, all right, I'm just going to take on everyone right now.

And Jake was kind of there. But it didn't happen. I think it's probably because of Foster or something. Do you remember when you tried to do that in somewhere in Germany, two years later on the Nereheeled Tour? Took on a bunch of Germans? Well. Yeah. Ross overheard a singer in the band calling me a slur.

Wow. And then after the show, was the band that he was in. That was real. Don't edit that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He went, I remember you going up to each person in that like 10 band touring party because it was two bands. It was like us and never healed and then these two other bands. And you'd go in like one by one like what?

Do you want some? No, fuck you. What about you? It was everyone like down the line. I love the fight when I was a kid. I loved it. Mind you, I probably got to like 37 fights as a kid and I lost 30 of them. You know what I'm saying?

So I'm not like this. Like I'm the bitch. I'm my chees-in-a-guy. I love the beef and I was just ready to-roll. Well, not being afraid to lose gives you an edge over most people. For sure. And we only learn from failure. For sure.

There we go. And, you know, my friends were everything to us. So it was like we would do anything. for them and the whole thing. But, you know, interesting because punk and hardcore, especially this hardcore scene that we got into,

violence was center of a lot of it. There was a lot of that. I remember being in posy numbers, I think it was. Yeah. Was it the year before? It was the year after the fire station. I don't know all the politics of it.

I think it was something. Not the year we played. Not the year we played. I know there was the Cold War incident. That was the year we played. I don't know the politics of that either. I don't care. I know that people got into a fight,

whatever. But the year before that, in the it was like leveled yeah posse numbers there was a huge fucking fight brawl everyone was getting jumped and beat up I don't again don't know why but I was sitting there just like damn this is crazy just like I had gotten the first cold world shirt the blue one with the white riding I was holding I was like damn this is crazy I'm about to get out of here and get the fuck out never got punched or anything but good wrong of course loved it I just love seeing all of the

flesh and all of the people just socking each other this is why we do it it It was just beautiful. Yeah. The first, like, couple days of me knowing what Cold World was, I thought they were an old band from the 80s that I never heard of. It sounds like that. Well, because Ross was only into that stuff. So all the shirts that he wore were, like, first wave 80s stuff.

This is that shirt for new. So he was starting to, but then he was wearing this Cold World shirt. I'm like, oh, I'm like, what label is that on? And I remember through our conversation. I was like, no, I just bought this as a brand new band. I was like, oh. Yeah, that was their first show. Was that, it that was the 03 positive numbers?

The stacked place. It was their first show. That's where I got the shirt. And then the next year they played the big show, and there's a big brawl. 2006 marks the first Sound and Fury Festival, which you guys played. And I was there. Was that the crass intro? No, that was a seven.

Okay, okay. Tell me about, do you remember 06? Oh, yeah. Memories from 06? Oh, yeah. Do you, you don't headline. No, we're middle of the day. We played after sinking ships.

Scared people? No, that's a 7. No, it was, yeah, it was, it was, it was, uh, violence violence. I remember, that was, I vividly remember, because we played posy numbers in 05, and we opened at 1130. There was, I remember one person there knew, knew the words, and that was cool, but it like, again, we had no business playing that. It was a total, just ocean of MNus, you know. And the East Coast, and we had been.

been a band for six months. Six months, yeah. This would have been a band for one year in six months. Yeah. And it was California. El P's out. And so it was kind of our, like, again, we had been, we had gotten good reactions, but they were like all, like they were in rooms

the size of this room. So never did we, that was our first big stage like, yeah. React, that reaction. And it was, it was a fucking trip, man. I don't remember much of it, but I remember it was serious. Okay. And now you've played Sound Infuri more than any other band. Yeah. Which I was wrong about in the Jeopardy, but we talked about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you already start to have the urge for ceremony to evolve musically in some way?

Urge. I don't think we've ever had an urge. It's always just been organic. I think it's just natural. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like. There's not much premeditation. We talked a little bit on this interview, I think, about premeditation in the beginning. I wanted to be fast and tight, you know, and put some, of course, I guess flowery, it would be like, of course, because of the imagery of ceremony. And I wanted there to be an emotional element mixed with like the acoustic, really fast, brutal music. Sure. I thought that was interesting. So that was kind of the beginning of anything being premeditated, but that was it really. After that, we're just like, oh, let's get together and whatever comes out. Okay.

I think we just had a natural sort of feeling that if we were going to do something at all reminiscent of a thing that we had already done and needed to just be a little different. Okay. Pardon this interruption, please. You know, I don't want to interrupt this unbelievable chat. Isn't it so good already? But I got to tell you about the two very important things that brought you this incredible episode. First off, Aftershock Festival. That's right.

October 1st through 4th, we have the craziest collection of bands to ever hit Sacramento, California. One day, you got My Chemical Romance, Sublime, and The Offspring. The next day, you got Wu-Tang, Sikis. Cypers Hill and Public Enemy, with Drain and Haywire earlier in the day. Then the next day, you got our friends in the story so far playing alongside Down, Black Label Society, COC, the fucking Melvins, and Pentegram. That's just about the best stage I ever heard. And the last day, back to back on the main stage, you have Zach Sabbath, AFI, Danny Elthman,

and Toole, with suicidal and the Cromag's playing earlier that day. Much like louder than life, which I just played this past weekend, this is a, Sonic buffet. This is an entire iPod. And if I was not in Europe this same weekend, rocking some gigs, I would surely be there. So head over to aftershock festival.com. Pick up your single day tickets or four day passes now. This episode is also brought to you by Mills Vintage, the greatest place in the world to get vintage, hardcore, metal, punk, rock, pop, everything, memorabilia. He just gave me this shirt for my birthday, so you never know what he's got. Morrissey is the twat. With new items, you don't see. every day posted every day. Your best move is to follow Mills Vintage USA on Instagram and check that site every single day. And when you see something you want,

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this stuff. People come from all around the internet, all around the world, and give him, this stuff. Don't you want to know when it goes up? I do. I got those notifications on, man. You should do the same thing. And once again, go to mills vintage usa.com. Use code hard lore, get 10% off. Now enjoy this episode. Up next would be the scared people seven inch 2007 headline. Front page ceremony signs to bridge nine. Read all about it. B9 board. It's a dude. I was reading all about it on the B9 board. Tell me about how this came to be and this time for ceremony.

After violence violence, malfunction wasn't going to be a label anymore. Purchased by Death Wish. Yeah, later purchased by Death Wish. But, like, it was, I think we actually had a conversation with Drew and Linus that they weren't going to continue. We probably just would have stayed with malfunctioned. Yeah. But, you know, all of these labels started reaching out to us, which was a thing that was like new and a weird. trip. We were touring so much that we went to the Brazilian office a few times and there was

not only label that had reached out to us, them in rivalry records, which was a Bay Area label, were the only ones that we considered. And it was kind of either way. Remember, like, we went to Kyle's house and like we was like seriously considered considering rivalry, but we just thought that like we were just really into like, we just couldn't believe we were in a band. that like people were paying attention to and like had opportunity and we're like we're talking about going to Europe and putting out records you know so we just felt like and bridge nine had a little more history too a little more on the other side of the country that's cool yeah so it was like i think that was a big part of like we could kind of have like some east coast establishment you know rivalry was popping

but bridge nine was the label and i think that the history like rivalry was pretty new so i think that there was an element of knowing that bridge nine would probably always exist. You know, and then not really knowing if, you know, who knows what could happen with rivalry. Who ran the ceremony of Myspace in 2007? We all had access to it. We had a Myspace?

Oh, yeah, you put me in your top 302 when I changed my name to Colin Murray. Oh, yes, that thing. That was a, that. It was a viral marketing stuff. Yeah, that was, I think. Ryan was more into the, sort of like managerial stuff.

Okay. Yeah. So Ryan, Toast put me in the top of-302. That was his, that was all his doing. Toast, thank you for putting me in the top 32 on my last day's briefly. Dude. This record is kind of proof that like EPs are forgotten over time,

as this was like a huge deal. And now I have to like dig through the ceremony discography to find it. Yeah, it's not, we were having a discussion about this today because we're rehearsing today for our tour coming up and maybe putting a song in the set from this record and we're like, well, would that just be, what would the point of that be? I don't know. I'm going straight from Vios Vianna's to Svonimoje. I forget sometimes about the scary people,

but I love that record. He's forgotten himself about you. I think it's a great, I think it's a great record. It is. It's got great cover art by Cody Sullivan, the. Great cover. Great cover. Great cover. Great cover. Was this the Boston of it all? Inspiring? Yeah, I mean, we get into this later, but. Okay. I, man, some of that East Coast. I mean, I gravitate a lot towards East Coast things, especially in punk and hardcore. I just love that sound.

You know, there's something different than, it's not as, let's say it's not as smooth as the West Coast. You know, the West Coast by nature has that kind of like, you know? Yeah. But some of that, some of that East Coast stuff is just, it's the winner or something. I don't know. And it is the dichotomy. I felt like, because we, at that, at that. point we were covering live we were covering circle jerks and dead kennedy's yeah so that's just i think

made me felt like obvious to cover any of that stuff because that's where we were from yeah for sure and you're paw meeting your fucking ass off on this record you know that yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah too thanks for keeping it a lot now what does touring continue to look like for ceremony in 2007 it's just i mean all over everywhere all we're have you gone to europe yet We have members in high school, so we're only doing summers. But 07 is when we do our first. We essentially, we play Sound and Fury. Did you headline Sound in Fury?

We had Lined Sound in Fury. We did, okay. Yeah. Pretty fucking cool, man. It was a trip. Like two years into being the band, basically? It was not lost on me. I was like, when Todd and Bob and Riley told us a few months before that they wanted us to do that,

I thought they were, I thought it was an actual like dumb and bad idea. And then once, but then the record come out, I was like, okay, like, I think this will work. California. But we toured from that show to the East Coast and then flew from Boston to Europe with Havehart and Bain to start our first European tour. But it, I'm just like, the gravity of that. It is, Sound and Fury is now 20 years old. Mm-hmm. And it has not happened since.

that a two-year-old band has headlined the festival. I mean, it's... Haywire this year is like the closest thing. And they've been a band for more than two years. And they're on Roadrunner, you know? Yeah, I mean... They headlined this last year? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, I mean, it was such a trip. I mean, that's all I... Like, how do you... But, I mean, it's just a... It's a big sign of what is to come for ceremony. That it was really... It was working.

It was connecting with people. It was an important time, for sure. I mean, I don't, the gravity of it, I don't, I wasn't thinking about it then, obviously, you know, it wasn't something that was on my mind. I was kind of just going about my time. To chill, relax California vibes. I was playing gigs, but, you know, looking back on it now, there's such formative years. And we played those songs fast.

We just liked them. That's all you wanted. That's just how we liked them, you know. And we played for like 12 minutes probably. Yeah. I remember Todd getting. on the mic from the sound booth through the monitors being like, you guys could play more if you want. And I remember us being like, we don't have any more songs. We don't have any more songs.

Then we probably played our first show. We played our first show in Europe two, three weeks after that Sound In Fury, like really soon. And I remember then being like, okay, we headline Sound and Fury. We have a record on Bridge 9. And like, it's, things are happening. We play our first show in Germany with Bain and Havhart Just us, Havart, Bain Ripping gig. Sold out. I'm like

Incredible. Yeah. Maybe one person knew us at that show. It hadn't carried over the pawn I was just saying. But so it was like, oh, okay, like

It was an American hardcore okay at that point. Havhart was definitely having their moment and Bain is Bain, you know, but there were like probably five shows on that tour that like were where we went over well but that i feel like that's confused often

though yeah what is this yeah it's five and a half weeks five and a half weeks yeah it was everywhere it was strong yeah and we were there were two vans on a there were two vans there were two vans for the three so bane had a van and half heart had a van you're describing my exact first european tour and then ceremony was split between the two van so we didn't really even like yeah we're really even around each other. Mind you, I didn't bring anything. I brought one pair of shorts. No. Yes. And a t-shirt and a little coat and a skateboard, a passport, and a toothbrush. You're so hung, man. And a little book that I wrote a little, thoughts in my commonplace book. He would shower in his clothes. I would shower in my clothes because it was the summertime, right?

Put the soap all over my clothes, get in like a washing machine in there. And you still smell better than pain, I'm sure. It was great. It worked. Because I would get done with the show first. Yeah. Right? I would go and shower in the weird European shower. And then I would go outside and I would skate. I would skate and just hang out and it would drive. It was beautiful. You figured it out in night. It was perfect.

It was perfect. There was no show clothes. No show clothes. No show clothes. So your show clothes for your clothes. The show clothes are, don't work for me, man. They get too salty.

It gets, you know? You need a couple sets. Can we talk about Andy? Can we talk about Andy? Can we talk about it? He's got a show clothes. And it's, it's, it's, it's, It gets often, it's too much.

It's a problem. Yeah. It's a problem. Some people, it's problematic. We need to, we need to do the Fugazi and start touring with a washer and dryer.

I heard about that recently. It's interesting. Yeah. How can that possibly be? Just a washer, though, because... I think, yeah, just a washer. They would hang. Yeah.

Come on. We should tour. We should tour it just a dryer. Using the electricity. 2008. Yes. Still nothing moves you. Your second LP on British Iron Records.

What stands out to, to you when I bring up these words. The first is recording at Polymore Studios with Dan Rathbin. Yeah. I mean, he did the legend. I mean... He was insane. Is this you going

give me the tragedy guy? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, going into his studio, being around him and getting that experience, we were like, okay, this guy is a weirdo. The real deal. Like, this is what we need. Yeah. You know.

A kindred weirdo. But he also wasn't into punk or hardcore. He fell into that because he did all those records. He recorded Gauz. You know, I mean, fuck. And so I think him not being involved in that scene or having much of appreciation of that style of music, but also being his band is so much weirder than our bands.

He was in a band called Sleepy Time Gorilla Museum. That is like, they would make instruments with, like, pieces of foam. and like they were just fucking free. Like they probably had like a trapeuse artist in the band or something. Yes. You know what I mean? Yes. But to have that, someone who just is naturally kind of like gets.

So being around him and absorbing him and also this was the most songs we ever did. Yeah. You know, we started like experimenting with tunings more, you know. So does the process change creatively on the writing side? And does Dan contribute creatively as a producer at all? No, he was forming the sound. He was like a sonic producer. Which is production, yeah.

Big time. I mean, you... I mean, dude, vengeance is like the best sounding thing. That's why we... That's literally why we recorded there. Perfect. Yeah, we saw them at Gilman before that, and they were just out of this world.

Yeah, I mean... Tight, just incredible, you know. Talk about a band that makes you just feel like you're not... Yeah. That you ain't shit. Straight up. It's like seeing tragedy at Gilman in 2000, whatever that was, so six, seven.

But, yeah, so I feel like we were going into it, because Violence Violence is an LP, kind of in name only. You know, it's like, it's... Nine minutes or something? It was two days. Okay. And that included mixing. Okay.

So we recorded two days, that included mixing. Scared people was an afternoon. And not a true LP because it's an amalgamation with other parts. Totally. Totally. So this was like, we recorded for, like five days. And then we had to book another mixing.

So it was our first sort of like sort of venture into how we started, how we would record now, take our time. And there was just a lot, it was just, it was a lot different. Different bad or different good? Different good. Different different. Different different.

Yes. Different different. Different different. Different. But I feel like we couldn't have traveled further down that road. Yeah. right yeah i mean we were like you know i was i was in a lot of the 625 stuff then i was listening to spas and like plutocracy and uh all the base stuff and it was just the whole being in the little

dark little dungeon with him it was just speaking to all that you know it was it was to tape you know the other records were you know were computerized as ross's influence yeah i just thought it was cool I just dug whatever what they were doing. Sure. I was into it, you know. And I liked, I think I probably liked that it was more analog than the Zach Orrin experience. That sounds real and raw in a professional way. Pretty experimental.

It did a lot of weird. Yeah. We did some, uh, we did some interludes that I've been trying to get us up with. I think Jake, like, maybe recorded some things at his house on, like, his iPhone that we, like, mixed to sound. Yeah. Overcast was a instrumental. We don't really do instrumentals. Yeah, dogma.

So we were getting, we were getting... Getting wacky with it. Yeah, we gave ourselves, like, the most permission on that record since anything to, like, really, like, push the limits. How do you find this record connecting with people at the time? And how do you see it connecting with you now? I feel like it's probably the record, the LP, that if you were a ceremony fan, this is probably the one you're least familiar with.

Yeah, I would say. At the time, I felt, I mean, there are, there's some songs on that record I really love, but I feel like it's very much an album. You know, and I feel like there were, it was the, we were writing songs where we, or like an audience reaction was just like the furthest thing from our, from our concerns. It wasn't a lot of mosh parts. It wasn't a lot of part part. Wasn't a lot of hooks, you know, it wasn't a lot of melody making.

It was more just crash and burn. It was like a hardcore record for listening. Which is kind of weird because hardcore is like, you know, we go back to some of our curse. It's like when we say we do it for them, it's like, well, that is live music. You know what I mean? Like if not to do it for them, why have music like that? Yeah. You're so conscious of that now, though.

So it's like, does that play into what you're doing now creatively? Thinking about the audience first? No. No, no. I mean. Anthony does it less. I do it a little more, I think. I think about the audience a little bit more.

I think about the audience. it's done. Yeah. What do we play, not what do we do? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But still anything moves you, it feels like an isolated event and it looks and sounds like an isolated event. The whole thing is not very participation-esque, you know what I'm saying? It's very like that. And I think that's a cool point.

It's like a listening record, you know? People call it like art punk or something. You know, I don't know. It's a, yeah, it's different for sure.

Well, it's interesting to hear you talk about it this, this way. And it, in itself being kind of, the end of the original ceremony sound in a way. Yeah, totally. Big time. He God has favored our undertakings. This is your, this is your D-Assad song, if you will. Tell me about writing this one in particular. I think I was looking at money, you know, and it has it right there. In Latin,

he got his favorite of our undertakings. So, you know, I wrote that down in my little commonplace book that I had at the time. And I just kind of took off from there, you know. I Which is a lot of how ceremony works. It's a lot of patchwork with lyric writing. Things that I find interesting, little bits and pieces from what have you, you know, quotes, whatever it is. So it started there and then it kind of went into the more, I guess you could say, like gnarly imagery, you know, thunder and lightning protecting from God. And then, of course, maybe we'll say it here. The skull fuck is, I don't know what that was.

Maybe that was 2008 situation, you know. Just two great. You needed two great syllables. got that from. Where that came from? Was it a movie? Was it wrestling? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know where the skull fucking thing came from. I don't. But it

rubbed off on. You did. He wanted to put it in the oven. It rubbed off on me. All the things from friend groups, you know. So I don't know where that I really came from. Skull fucked. And there's biting curbs and things, you know, on another song. So there's this very violent imagery, you know.

And that's how, of course, you get the point across, right? You take somebody, you hit them over the head with the club, you say something outlandish, and of course they go, voila, you know. So I think that's where my, probably my mind was at. You did good. It's been like that with ceremony a lot. You did good. And what are things like with ceremony after this record comes out? Do you think, because it's kind of just been up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up since the band started. Does that continue with still nothing moves you, or do you notice? You say that this is the record ceremony fans are least familiar. At the time, it felt like a, you know, I don't say triumph, but it felt like a monumental.

It was our, again, like, to me it felt like our first proper LP. Okay. And we toured, I think, oh, this record and zoo, I feel like are the two records we toured the most on. So we were, we did three full U.S. tours. First time going to Australia, I think, yeah, Australia. Yep. Europe, just the once, but still like... 2008?

Japan? It's Japan or 2009? Japan was the beginning of 2010 before Rona Park came up. But in that point, we did go to Japan before our next record. So it felt like, and then at the, our last tour on that record in the States was with Havhart and Blacklisted. And all three of us were kind of like had newer records. and we're all having like our own like respective moment so and like I feel like that would never like

I feel like there would be it would be unlikely for there to be a tour with three bands that are kind of on similar footing or like have like similar popularity they're all doing their own tours they're all doing their own tours but we wanted like we just didn't that just wasn't even like and like that's so big and the venues were probably chain reaction yeah yeah it was all the venues we normally would play, but they were just full, very full. You know, so... Yeah, it was kind of an old-timey thing, a super tour with all the bands that were bigger and loved each other and were friends of sorts.

Every day we'd get to the show, all three of us, we'd be like, we'd essentially have to like flip to who would not headline. You know what I mean? Like, there was no, like, set order. Like, sometimes if, like, Half Hard got there first, they would set up first and be like, we're playing first tonight. Like, you know what I mean? Like, there was...

It was all loose and it was just like... And it didn't really matter. It didn't matter. Wow. None of us cared. The only thing we cared about was not playing last. No one wanted to play last. Sure.

You're going to get that walk out no matter who you're all. You know, the only ones that were like, obviously how far we'll play last in Boston, we'll play last at Gilman and Blacklist will play last at the church. That was kind of the only... But then the tour we did before that was like a teen... We took out this band, Poverty. Saints, this small band from Seattle, like, Street Punk band.

So, like, we couldn't play enough on this record. So to answer your question, like, yes, and maybe like a record that's the most likely to be forgotten, but we probably did 150 shows on this record. Holy hell. 2010 is rapidly approaching here.

You've been doing a lot of tomorrow, you did 150 shows, but it's time to talk about Rohnert Park. It's a landmark paradigm shifting punk masterpiece. Beautiful. Some are calling it. End the episode there.

It's done. The DNA may be the same and the writing may have been on the wall, but this is a completely different band in execution. Break down this process for me because it feels different and it feels special literally from the first second of the record.

there were some accidents involved there were some happy accidents very happy accidents big happy accidents some happy accident tell me under into things sometimes you know and I'm I guess just starting on and I'm gonna go topically here I'm gonna go with it just with the imagery we almost went with another photo that I had of like a dilapidated barn near my house and I think maybe there was going to be or there was a word already spray painted on the wall there There was something there that I found interesting that we were going to use, a black and white photo. And, you know, you look over this a few hundred times and you think, here's, there's something itching you, you're saying, this isn't quite right.

This isn't quite it. And then lo and behold, I was going through some old negatives. And there was JD skating by Anthony's house across the street, and it would just, and I started thinking, okay, we're naming this. The town we're in, Rutter Park. It's about suburbia. here he is with the minor threat sweatshirt on the skateboard

I said this could work that's all I really said I wasn't sure of it it wasn't like this aha moment you know it wasn't this epiphany and I was like this could this could work and then when we put it on the panel with the white and the title

came together with LP on there too we were like this just this alone is going to be amazing you know just the look of it and why Rohnert Park as the title of the album Why celebrate your hometown in this way? I feel like it's not really celebrating it.

It's not. It's more like... Commentary. And just purely, this is where we are. This is what we are. This is where we are. This is who we are. It's not that exciting. We're going to make some excitement out of it.

And again, this goes back again to like, you know, punk, hardcore nostalgia or way... It's like we... There's been so many bands that have... talked about suburban life, that it's just like almost our kind of nod to that, right, or homage to that or something, you know. And that was our moment because we'd already been established. We were doing something new. And it just came together. Like, I just, I don't know, man. It just all kind of came together in that way. I mean. Sometimes it just does. Even

musically? I mean, music. But the music fell into it, I guess. Yeah. So the original concept was, I had this idea to do a three EP, to do three EP set and then kind of compile them into one album. Yeah. And it was sort of like- Never works that way. No, no, no, but like the loose structure, I remember pitching it to Ross in Europe on the Still Nothing Movies tour,

was like a past, present and, like, future. Which was sort of like my idea where we do an EP of stuff that it's like reminiscent to like what directly influenced us. and then do an EP like kind of reminisce of what we're doing now, a la Still Nothing Moves You, and then do an EP of the stuff from Still Nothing Moves You that's way out there. That's not like what we would do.

And I feel like the songs that we gravitated, that were like easiest for us to write were the sort of like kind of first wave stuff, you know? And then we were kind of into like, because tempo changes and like, stark dichotomy was such a part of us. We're like, what if we didn't tempo change at all? You know, what if we didn't blast beat at all?

You know, so like, I feel like- Rural addiction. I feel like we, like, removing a lot of sort of our, like, like, the things that, removing our comfortabilities allowed us to just like find this whole other, like, that of inspiration. So intentionally exercising restraint. Yes.

by way of doing something you've never done before. You're like putting training wheels on to take them off in a weird way. Yeah, totally. And Dan knew us at this point, so we were kind of comfortable with him again. Yeah, dude. He knew our plays. The way this record sounds, just out of bounds. It's out of bounds.

As Guy Faddy would say. It's just out of us. Yeah. And that's right. And it really, it really feels. different from the, from the first second, and then, and then, and then sick comes in and got this four-minute opus to this band that has been writing sub-minute songs the whole time. Does this song spawn musically with, with what he's doing vocally in mind, or is this

just kind of blank slate for Ross to do whatever? Blank slate. And I was like, how, how are we going to make this work? And, Even still, this album, every, I don't know if you, the first song on each record, even until this point is the first song that we wrote. Yeah. Curse was the first song we wrote for ruined, violence, Dead Moon. That's crazy. Like every- You're coming off fresh vacation.

Yeah. Yeah. And then so for whatever reason, like that the first song that we've written became the opening track. Remember us playing it a lot on the AFI trip, trying it out, right? Weren't we playing it? Yeah, so. To see if it worked and then it was working. We liked it.

We dug the feeling of it. We recorded the record and then we did a tour, a West Coast tour with AFI. But we had just recorded it, so it wasn't going to come out for like many months. So there was potential for this to maybe not be the final version of the song. No, I think we were just like we had to play 35, like however long. And now we have these songs that are like not, you know, 45 seconds. So we were playing a lot of the Rohnert Park songs to fill the space on that tour. But we were playing Sick and a few of the other ones.

Yeah. Probably Terminal Addiction and Open Head and Doldrums maybe. No, we didn't play doldrums until we didn't play doldrums until chain reaction with Bain. How does he remember that? Because I do remember. This is how I remember. I remember us having it. So Sick was already out because we, because we.

released the runner park EP and we were going to add doldrums to set that night and I remember you and I in the van talking about it and you being like I don't how are we going to I'm kind of nervous

playing a song like like it's clean guitars a lot of restraint the vocal you're not screaming and you're like I don't know and I remember telling you you have to do it as if it's not weird at all yes and that and that clicked

But so that's Yeah so we didn't play doldrums on the If I tour but I mean this song is like At this point in the context of Ceremony so far This is like the major creative Outlier

Doldrums Yes yeah oh yeah And also I mean And this is that indication of you guys being like Oh we can do that Okay then what do we do next then And you could hear that and not to Jump forward

But you could hear that in zoo where I feel like there's like three or four doldrum-esque songs on zoo where it's like, oh, it's exactly that. We can do that. We can do that. Yeah. And, you know, we had had the interludes before, the violence intro, but it just goes to show. That's the thing that Ross and I, I would say, not debate, but like ruminate. Yes.

Often where I feel like the vocals are the most important part. And so what makes this song such an outlier is that by putting vocals to it, it's not an interlude now. It's a song where there are interludes and instrumentals on violence, violence, and still nothing moves you that are like way different from the sort of general, like, feeling. But they're not sounds. But they're not. But once you put a vocal to it, then it's like. And a very different vocal. Yeah.

Yeah. And that was all. Were you, was that, were you scared doing that? I just, it wasn't, it wasn't very comfortable for me. me you know because I was constantly stepping up into the microphone you know screaming yelling etc so doing something that was refrained like that and pulled back it was difficult for me to comprehend or of course I did it and you know back to the thing about the music or vocals this has been a huge huge debate in ceremony for me I think that I the music will pull me

into the song, right? When I hear the music, I like the music, it will give me a feeling to produce something that reflects that of sorts, right? And our music writing has changed over the years, whereas they would write things, write the music, and I would just put lyrics to it, or whatever melodies I felt would go with it. But I still do believe the better sounding the song, the better the vocal appeal will. No, I could see that. Totally. Totally. It's a But it's easy to throw. Is this a chicken or the egg situation? It is in a way where it's like if the song sucks, yes, the vocals can save it.

But when the song rocks and the vocals rock, you've got it all time. They work in tandem, though. But it's easy to forget that most audiences are, they're all about vocals. The riffs are going to be secondary to the average music listener, you know? And my thing is like, Because everything that you just said, Ross, I 100% agree with. I just have this sort of, you know, I just feel humans connect and communicate through voice. 100%.

So be it subconscious when you hear a song and then a vocal enters, you are trained to then put your focus on that as a way of communicating with the music. Especially with something like doldrums where it is this different. thing in the midst of the chaos. And this just, I think we've really just kind of unlocked, like, Ross is a vocalist and lyricist who puts the importance of the music. I am in the band of ceremony, an instrumentalist and songwriter who puts the importance on the vocals. And that sort of, like, that friction, if you want to call it, it's not friction,

but like, you know, but that, like, opposing dispositions is what, for better for worse, That is why ceremony sounds the way that sounds. I think it's interesting too because the vocal, of course, comes from inside of your body and then it materializes outward, right, into the microphone. And you could say the same thing happens with the guitar, right? You're using your body's energy to pick the strings and then, of course, the amplifier goes out. So it's coming from inside your body too. But quite literally, the breath is coming from inside of your body out.

Right? So immediately when you hear a song, when you hear it with vocals, it is more intimate sounding to you, right? I think that rather than just being playing along, bada bada buma, boom, which I wish every ceremony record was an instrumental record. But here we are. I always make the, if we could go a little behind the scenes, I always make the joke when we're writing that Ross wishes that he could just be the conductor in an instrumental band. I'm always like no vocal here no vocal here and they're like shut the vocal there's going to be a vocal here

I'm like no vocal we don't we don't use that kind of like so can we swear it? Yeah okay we can we can yeah you're but as the guest I feel like you need to be a bit more I try to hold back a bit

How hands on is Dan this time around he's it's the first time where we're sort of using you know all the music is written going in. Right. So we're, so we're, and we're not demoing the album. So we know it's the only shot,

but it is kind of the first time where we're asking questions like, does that, do you feel like that is too long? Or like, we're asking sort of like general opinions, but the songs are fully done when we go in. But he, mixing and sonic, the sonic element is like, is where, is like, that's, That's his...

He's so good at... That's his thing. Who did the bottles? Was it... Bean? Was it being... Who did the... Somebody blacklisted was there?

Bean? I don't know. Who did the bottle? Did Dean? Did the... ...s his part because Blacklissa was playing Gilman the night that we played. Who did the bottle? I think I did it.

You did? I think I did it with a knife and a kombucha bottle. Is there a song or a moment from the record that for either of you in the writing process, us that felt like a holy shit we're on to something. Dolgums. Yeah, that was pretty cool. That's Heather's favorite song too. Yeah, I mean, like that was like, it was a, I can't believe we could write.

Because all the other elements of that record that are, you know, that are so different were sort of like these compounding sort of like efforts and accidents and it were a bit more like intentional, I guess. Well, with doldrums as well, it's not only did you do it. it, but it worked and people liked it. That, I just, there's a perfect storm to it. Yeah, and like, with that song, like, you know, everything that Ross said about, you know, like your vocal approach and how you felt about it was true, but like that was your not,

like no one made you sing like that. Like, that's how you felt to do it, you know? I just like the vocals. To this day? I like the music a lot, but I don't like my vocal approach. That's just a you. But I think that's a singer thing. It is a same.

Like I could do it maybe differently now Or I do it weirdly live Sometimes or whatever But when I listen to it now You do kind of a British thing sometimes What's going on in this? People have said that too, yeah You've got a British life

I mean never I mean like I'd love to just go fully British on it You know I could do it You literally can do it every I would love to do it We were really into like wire And Gang of Four Yeah it was that time

So it's like For sure Obviously it's isn't it interesting How the records we make are kind of a reflection of just what we're into that year. Definitely. You know? Definitely.

Totally. In February of 2024, ceremony played at Runa Park in full at a sold-out Hollywood Play-Dame. Unbelievable. How did this come about and how cool was seeing such a monumental idea pay off? It was a trip. You did it. It was Merrick.

It was our booking age. You know, this may be a boring answer to the listener. I don't think it is. I think that's fascinating. But it was Merrick's idea. the concept and the venue and we thought it was way too ambitious

and not a good idea because 4,000 cap tens of thousands of dollars to turn the lights on in this room you know and yet you did it so hold it off and it wasn't even like not even like a pressure

I was just like I just don't like there just aren't that many people who would want to see that yeah and What sold us on the idea was everyone being like, if it's half full, it'll still look okay because the play game is just one big open space. Totally. So it won't, it'll look okay. So we're like, I remember you saying this to me.

Yeah, while it was, you're like, dude, it's 4,000, but like, if we could fill it half, it'll be sick. Yeah, it'll still look cool. Maybe we could close the balcony or like, whatever. I still don't get it, to be honest. I don't know how it happened. And all honestly, I don't get it either. I don't understand it. Because you see these bands, and I guess it was why we did it.

This goes hand in the hands of why we ultimately did it. Because we don't do, it was the first time doing the remember when thing. We're always like, what's next? Yeah, yeah. But because this runner park, it was well received with like the people who were already familiar with us when it came out. But we didn't start playing bigger rooms. We didn't start selling like, there wasn't a zero at the end. to the amount of records that we sold.

It was like, it was like a little bit better of the same when, when, when, when a park came out. So to me, I was having a hard time wrapping around like why it wasn't like, oh, that was our big record from the 80s that everyone knows. And it's the 14th anniversary of it. Exactly. Yeah, strange. I kind of was in it.

I was like, fuck a round number. That's cool. Which was a COVID-orata of sorts, right? It was because of that. We were going to do maybe something, but. We had an idea because 2020 would have been a 15-year anniversary, so we had an idea to do like a residency, like another thing. Okay.

Yeah, I don't, it's still kind of strange to me because I understand if, this is a bad example because we're not this band, but like if Bon Jovi does slippery when wet. And that's, it's like that's the right. That's the record, like, that, but that record when that came out, that elevate that that that took him from like a smaller act to a stadium act and you there's millions of examples right with with that with bands that didn't happen with us so yeah on the inside maybe and maybe maybe like live show attendance didn't exactly reflect it but i can tell you as a as a fan

and a spectator at the time it was inescapable but like culturally sure but but it remained within the culture where like you see and that's what's changed is the The culture has grown that it remained in. I suppose so. The culture is jumping. I suppose so. I suppose that's why. Stocks are up.

The stocks are up. So I guess that's what made us feel comfortable doing it because it was kind of a thank you more than the let's try and like relive the glory days. Yeah. Because they were the same days. Love and gratitude completely. It was an infest. That was one of my favorite parts. You got soul search on there.

Gouds away Yeah, yeah Blazing High Rip and get They're all fine In fact I was like Yes

And now during the time That record was being made I was like that was our My shit You know So I was like During the time the band was being made It was so cool to have that

You know Come back And yeah Of course all our friends bands Yeah Lance Bangs Shot and directed

A live DVD For this performance I've seen it, where the hell is this thing? We would love to know the answer to that question. We were able to play it once at

Brain Dead last year. You were there? We spoke. Yeah, I moderated a Q&A. You moderated a Q&A. What the fuck is going on with this thing? I would love to have it in our possession. Now, this is the question because I'm not really involved in, once again, the politics

of a lot of this stuff. I stay out of the business and the drama of things sometimes, you know. But in my mind, I'm thinking, this is without talking to Anthony or Andy or anyone we're hearing it about, I'm like, does Lance not feel fulfilled by this endeavor? Does he feel like it's not complete? Does he not like what he produced?

That's what I'm thinking it is, other than just a drop of the ball, you know, maybe on his end. Maybe. We don't know. But like, I've seen it. I know it's good. It felt done. I was like, well, this is obviously done.

Which leads me to believe he doesn't want it to be in the public eye too much because maybe he wasn't successful on articulating his, what he was process. And the part of it that's... So communicate that, maybe. The part of it that is, that is I, that's a little bit troublesome for me, is just not knowing, is the unknown. Like, we, that's a very good theory and you could very well be correct. But who's to say?

I don't know. I hope that. people could see it one day. Me too. It's great. I've seen it. You saw it. Your brother mixed the LP version. He did a great job. He really did. And let's talk about that for a second. Because Taylor Young, who much like Dan, Rathbun, their biggest goals are maintaining the natural human performances in recordings. So I really, I think maybe a bias. I think you pick the perfect guy.

And I think it sounds amazing. He did a great job. And it was, there was definitely an option to not do it because when many bands, when bands do live records, often they'll do two nights to have two recordings or they'll like go in the next day to like. You had one shot. And we didn't re over it up anything. We didn't.

Yeah. That was the show. Which is incredible because, man, I'll tell you what, I got on that stage. I drank water all day long, hydrated. I was sober, okay? I didn't do anything weird. But I felt immediately, this might have been the nerves. All the water left my body, dry mouth, not from the herbal remedies, anything like that.

And I was just dehydrated feeling and I couldn't get it out. I wasn't feeling right about five songs in. But somehow we made it sound okay. Somehow we made it sound okay. You did great. You did. You all did great. And though the DVD may have some strange taint to it

that hopefully is resolved soon, having this to remember forever, at least sonically, is unbelievable. Totally. The music is ultimately the most is why we're here. So for that to be the part that still exists and is living on is the reward. Yeah, people enjoy it, get to listen to it.

I mean, that's all of the matter. Exactly. Now, the record's out. You're touring a ton. you say that things don't change much in terms of like a rapid overnight growth or anything but labels, managers,

agents, is there like a frenzy bidding war to get ceremony now? The only band, the only label we heard from was Matador. Yeah. Yeah. So you went with Matador because they were the ones who asked. I mean, we love, we... It was a natural progression like anything else.

It was an, and we had heard, the word Matador had been, like, circulating a little bit with us. First. Because it fucked up. So, so Damien, I remember Damien telling me in 07 that he heard Patrick from Matador listening to our negative effects cover. And he's a Boston guy. And he's a Boston guy, old punk guy. So I was like, oh my God, the guys from Madador have heard of our band. Sure.

And then fucked up got signed to Matador. And they were like, I feel like. spiritually, like, very similar to us. And then we make this record, Rone of Park that had elements that, like, seemed like, could fit on a label, like, but then they, they were the ones that reached out. You know, it really was, and that kind of goes, sorry, Ross, you know, you go ahead. It kind of goes to my earlier point where, like, it wasn't this frenzy. You know what I mean?

Like, which is so fascinating. Which is why the Roner Park show was like, are you sure? Because, like, I remember being there. It was good. But, like, you hear about these bands that have these. albums and it's like this album was 170 on the charts and then but this next one grew and grew and grew and grew and was number

or one and it's like we didn't that didn't happen like we sold like 2,000 more records and still nothing of you you know what I mean or like now a lot more but like time time it takes time but that was just so it was hard to see the to sort of the growth but you're inside it so it was incremental it was so incremental there was a bit of a punk and hardcore surge happening at the time too.

There was a resurgence of people being interested in aggressive music, I think, that helped boost our economy in that way, right? Yeah, in certain ways, like, yeah, like bands like hoax and like Piss-Jeans. I think Ice Age was going. I feel like there was bands that, like, were a little outside of hardcore, like the hardcore scene that we felt. And Piss Gines signing to Sub-Pop, I think it was, right? Like, that is in the same world.

Totally. Right. Indy record label signing something that's a little more like... That comes from this world, yeah. You know. But, and correct me if I'm wrong, I believe that... This can be something I made up on my mind again, but Leo from animosity introduced Robbie to me at some kind of festival day show in New York. And we came together and he started talking to me about Rurner Park because he liked Rurner Park a lot. Robin Morris did.

Yeah. But I think he was... Leo from Anamoa? Dude, maybe. It wasn't dead. Animosity. I don't think so. I love animosity. Incredible.

They were so to not to, I know we're chronological here, but animosity was the only other band and people apart from lifelong there was like our exact age. Yeah. The entire scene was older. So in 2001 and two, even though like the things that we were doing like musically were like different, but like spiritually, we really. we really felt connected to them because it was like we've at least i felt like i'm i don't know how they felt but like oh my god you're because then you know like if you're 22 you just felt so much

older we're like oh my god we're both 16 they've been well established in the bay area hardcore were you guys out there pitting for animosity oh yeah fuck yeah i booked animosity in runner park in 2000 so when i ask about surprising things that you guys might like anima Mossies at the top of the list. Yeah, it goes back to that first thing we talked about of just getting into whatever was happening. You know, you just step into it, man. Well, and they happen to kick ass.

They ripped their instruments. Yeah. Well, the drummer... We couldn't believe that people, like, our age, like, could play that well. Yeah. It was crazy. It was nuts.

Great, man. And really interesting, sweet people, great senses of humor. That all came together in one thing. It always does. Yeah. I got the party trick out. Do you want to do one?

Show me, yeah, show me some... You name a date. All right, here we go. In the past. Uh-huh. July 30th, 2008. The closest date is 27. Okay.

727. Is it Sounded Fury? It sure is. Wow. I nailed it. Annihilation time, race war, shipwreck. Still nothing moves you, wreck a release show. Mongoloids.

Yeah, I remember that one. Okay, here's another one. Okay. You got that on tape? He got it. This is a party trick, baby. This is good. Ceremony, let's see.

September 7th today, 2010. Oh, I have a 2008 right in front of me. Let me go down here. Let me try and guess. Let me go down here. 2010? I think the closest one would be Gilman. No.

Am I close? You're close. On the West Coast. How many shows am I away from Gilman? 9-11 We go from 9-4 to 9-11 We can't forget that Was 9-4

Gilman? No, FYF Mm-hmm Oh The fuck you festival Yes You said 2010

That is Okay, yep Oh right 9-11 The day before my birthday Shameless plug No, it's the day after The day after

Excuse me The day after A shameful plug. A shameful plug. You just got everything. You just now you know ceremony. You've been Ross. Yeah, yeah.

That's exactly it. No, Ross. Your birthday is the 10th. This it is. What is it? What's 11th? In Oregon. You played with Satiricon?

In Portland, Oregon. Music Fest Northwest. That's where we got. From Ashes of Rise. That's a colicolicon. Wait, Satiricon played this, or that's the name of the venue? Yeah. That's the name of the venue.

Oh, man. So there's one. Great, bad. So it went from four to 11. Yeah. So he's missing the A-N show and at the Metro. Then the list is voice. I told you there's some around.

Oh, no, I'm sorry. That was 2012. The guy's voice. We're back. I apologize. Thank you for that. Thank you, Scott. Scott, great job on this list.

You can have it all. 2012. Album for Zoo. Let's break it down. The inclusion, the injection of melody in your voice is kind of the first. thing that jumps out at you upon listening this record. Is this a discussion beforehand of like Ross, it's time or is this you just doing whatever? Never a discussion. No. Just going for it. I feel like it's just how, I mean, I don't want to speak for you, but I feel like it's just how you felt

your voice made sense on those songs. 2012? Yeah, so after listening to that. I think the doldrums really like gave you permission and like unlocked something for you. J. Richard was heavy on the box then. all that stuff. Heavy on the box. Heavy on the box. I like heavy on the box. I'm going to use that. I was really into that lower dense record.

I was listening to that a lot. This isn't really punk hardcore stuff. That's okay. But it's, I mean, it's punk. It's punk. It's punk.

Well, J. Recharge. You have, but you're also, there's like a, there's like a classic California punk thing coming out of you at the same time

as the melody now for the first time. I mean, that's what a Californian sounds like. 100%. And it's, drown it's kind of drowned in different

reverbs and things the whole record it has that people describe it right usually as like a cross between a punk and like garage rock

almost feel because that was coming in hot during that time it was big time like a lot of Tycegal stuff and all that was pretty

OCs the OCs like especially in San Francisco that millennial garage Rock yeah garage rocks so that was kind of

happening but I don't know, man. I just kind of stepped into it like per usual. Went for it. I remember saying out loud when we were recording the record. I'm like, this feels like it's like protopunk and post-punk mixed. And we like skipped over punk. It's like it sounds like the stooges or the cure or something.

You know what I mean? Or like VU. But I also still think this record, like, I, obviously I listen to every record in chronological order within the last week. And I think from the, I can tell as a listener from the inside, you guys aren't thinking like, let's change. Like, this is a conscious evolution. But I can also see from the listener that this feels like a completely different band somehow. Yeah. And we were on Matador, so there was a little bit of that influence.

We were getting a lot of, listen to a lot of their records. A lot that was projected onto us too. Like, oh, they're on Madditor now. So they feel like they have, and it's like, you know, it was a weird time. Also, 2012, we're time for music in general. Like, weird time for punk. We're time for hardcore.

I mean, right? 100%. So it was just like everything was just, everything was in flux. Everything was changing. And we were just. There was so much good music. That was our, of course.

And that was that, 2012, 2011. are kind of when the Pandora's box of possibilities opened. Yes. And it was okay to really venture out and start to evolve and be whatever you wanted. And it yet wasn't like expected at all. But then in like music, it's like people weren't buying record, like record collecting wasn't as much of a thing. Seven inches were still $200. You know.

Yes. But like streaming wasn't, didn't exist yet. I definitely stepped away from record collecting. It was more online. Or just even like, you know, like record sales like we're down. Yeah, for sure. Correct. People weren't buying physical records or CDs, but there wasn't this thing that,

but nothing had replaced that yet. So I feel like a lot of music from that time is kind of stuck in that time and didn't really get to like kind of have legs after it. Yeah, there's a lot of first pressings still available from 2012 that people that just aren't knowing to look up. It's a good point. Just a weird time for like, for the culture in general.

Do you guys feel pressure to follow up, Riner Park? I don't know. I know you state over and over again that it doesn't feel like this big cultural landmark, but like I was there, to me it did. So it didn't feel like,

okay, guys, pressure's on. No pun intended we got a rip? No. Just right, you're writing to write. No, I think we're just really excited. Yeah. We got to work with, like, we traveled to record, and we were, like, there for a month. Yeah, John Goodminson was a pretty interesting character to do it with.

He had done these pretty incredible records in the past that we thought was interesting. His favorite punk record was, like, Zero Boys, which was kind of, like, interesting to us. And so we were just, like, we were just excited that we get to, like, kind of step into this world where we could, like, be in a studio for a long time and, like, really, like, you know, figure out, like, the best, sounds for each song like that those elements and like ross's freedom with like his vocals like we just thought like the possibilities were just kind of like endless and you know you're in sattle seattle two weeks we were in saddle i was in seattle for a month a month yes i was sleeping on the couch for two weeks yeah the dangler yeah yeah so like little punk hardcore house

we're we're we're making this matted our records at london bridge studios where like all the Seattle like all the Seattle bands recorded. Crazy. But yet we're still sleeping on our friend's couch. And I did not drink until the last day famously. Good for you. Which was different. You know. But the record

kind of sounds a little like it sounds a little more unhinged I feel like Well it's just so different from anything you had done so far. Yeah. Totally objectively. Literally objectively. Yeah. What is the dynamic like in the band between you guys

between Runner Park and Zoo and during zoo. The biggest sort of change is Andy joins the band, but Andy lives in Philadelphia. Yes. So, which doesn't change the writing process or anything like that. But I guess really it's just like, you know, we sort of had the bare bones of the songs and he kind of came in at the end to learn them

or like add whatever, you know. So he had, he's like a really interesting player. So, like, he had some really cool, like, kind of lead stuff and, you know, like, some really good, like, fun treats throughout. Texture. Yeah, throughout the record that were really cool. He's, you know, Andy's a bit older than us. He comes from, like, a different, he's very East Coast. And we're, like, the most, we're just so California.

You throw that monkey wrench into the California boy. Yeah, so, like. God, it's a recipe there. So there was a fun. So there, I feel like there is this, like, secret third thing. He says water. Oh, yeah. Yeah, wooder.

Gets a laugh. He says water. I mean, come on. I get it. That's hilarious. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah, it was on it.

It was a really, like, it wasn't pressure filled or like at all. It was just exciting, you know, like all of us were out of high school by this point. Like, it just felt like we could really, you know, and then we toured so much. Destination wedding. Okay. We had a little bit of freedom there. Yeah. Yeah.

Totally. A group destination wedding. Totally. Now, does the beginning, like we said. with every other record you try this new thing this light bulb goes off you realize what you're going to do in the future and then the inclusion of the post-punk stuff in this record would go on to kind of define the next like 10 years of ceremony does this is this just like learning as you go or yeah oh my god totally learning as we go okay i listen so i like i really like that record but it's funny

I feel like there are songs on it now where if we wrote, they'd be a bit more refined, which I think maybe what makes it cool, but they're like... I think that's just how art works. Yeah, there's just like a strip, but of course, but there's just like, you know, a lot of the songs I feel like maybe... There's some patterns.

Yeah, like maybe like a bit like structurally imperfect. There's some repeats. There's some repeats. There's some songs that sound like other songs, but we weren't really privy to that at the time. There's some moves that we do on that record that when I listen back I'm like we do that thing and every song in this record it's so you know like that it's not an intentional motif it's no it's like it was just we were just in this like

which a producer might have parsed all that out if we had one right well I mean we did he had a little bit of pre-pro but I don't think yeah he was he was quite there he was very much like you know like a a mixing I mean he he helped with like there were there are certain you know structural choices that he did that I'm like so thankful for but um but you know yeah it was it was our first time making like a not at all hardcore record yeah you know so it's like do you do you know that as you're writing it no no I guess there's not a lot of hardcore moves on that one no they're like we sort of expanded on some moves from run at park that were sort of like the least you know like there's like the mid-tempo like kind of full chord like terminal addiction kind of there's a few of those songs

what's the intro song to zoo hysteria of course yeah that's what i was just going to say but yeah huh i for some reason in my mind is like second or third song but no it's the first song and our first trip the first song that is a track one on any release we ever done that wasn't the first song that we wrote wow so big changes all right big changes oh does the first song does the jump up to Matador feel like it pays off after the record comes off? Do you feel like there's this grand culmination to this move? In certain elements, yeah. Like, yes.

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I mean, just being on the label with the history and the gravitas of it, it was just like, this is so cool. So this feels like a positive thing to you now. Dude. Totally. And still, we still have like such.

Amazing, dude. Yeah, I mean, like still buddies with them, like had a great time on that label. Like, you know, ultimately it's like... It was the big time for us, man. We go to New York, we go to the office. They take us to dinners. We have a good old... We have a ball.

We have a ball, okay. Yeah, really. In New York City. And Los Angeles and everywhere else. We won't go too far. It just felt like there were... We had a good time. Less so me.

Dine 69. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Obviously. Yeah. And was there a while touring post zoo? Is there like a country or a city you play in or a specific show that makes you realize how far ceremony has come since the beginning?

Well, this is L-Shu-Man maybe for me. There was a show. We're almost there. The sort of announcement, like the hysteria single release and sort of album announcement, label announcement, all that culminated into a show, a one-off show, New York at LPR. That was $5. That was so fun.

Ceremony, rival mob, hoax, Piss Jeans. It was amazing. And that, I mean, granted, it was five bucks,

you know, but it sold out and like, it sold out quick, and we had never dealt with pre-sale tickets before. Like,

we played Gilman every time we play the Bay Area. So, like, that wasn't like a thing. So we were like, you're in the big Apple. That was such amazing bands.

That was like, and that show was just, just like what I would do to kind of do that show. Electric for sure. So that was like a memorable, like that was a memorable thing for sure. See, this is why we have him here. He's good. He's good.

Straight of stuff. We don't forget. Of course, of course. And how close are you guys after four albums at this point? And what's going on with you guys personally and separately? We're thick. Yeah. I mean, we're just like, we know everything about each other.

I feel like all the goings on. This is like an era or like you weren't back in school yet. And we were just. Playing gigs. I think we played 150 shows between May and December of this year. Scott, is that true? Ginging. Hello?

Gigging. Also, the record release weekend stands out to me because the L.A. show, Chelsea Wolf opened and Nails played. The chain reaction show, Joyce Manor to this day, got the best first of five reaction errors in any band get. First of five. Joyce Manor was first of five. Holy hell, man.

And it was clear that something was happening. Cole World played that and the Bay Show. Old from Casuals played the Bay Show. So it was like, the weekend was like It was stacked. Chelsea, Nails, Joyce, old firm, Cold World. You know, it was like, it was crazy. Like, we were just able to like kind of like curate these things.

It was just a really like fun and creative time like in all sort of elements of the band. Yeah. And how do you decide where to go from here? Zoo. Yeah. Well, you know. From here.

Well, I. Another Matador release. So. You know, it's not going to be, I don't think, very shocking to the listener after I just declared that we played probably 150 shows between May of December that Ross and I came home from that cycle. No longer in relationships that we had been in for a while. Yes. This is 2012. 2013 is coming.

Which means... HB's coming. HB's coming a little later. All right. So, Ross... That's just turned this, right. So Ross and I were in, you know, a bit of a personal flux, like at the same time. Yeah.

And I feel like if you listen to the music and you listen to the vocals and read the lyrics of L that followed you, you know, I feel like it's quite evident that we were maybe not in like the best personal like spaces. Definitely. Not with each other. Obviously with with each other was great. but like yeah we were sad and we didn't really know how to register that quite correctly i think and or maybe we was correct i mean we chill it's it's a great way to do it but i but like you know i think about this now i mean men or people who identify as men i think we have a harder time sometimes

talking about our feelings amongst each other personally one-on-one in intimate ways right i didn't have anyone really to talk to them therapy wasn't on my lip I couldn't talk to my family about what was going on. So I kind of went insular when I broke up with this woman. I didn't really know what to do. And on top of that, of course, I was, you know, drinking, et cetera. And so ceremony was my outlet into this. But, you know, back then, that's how I identified my,

I identified myself with pain rather than it just being a symptom of just a passing thing that happens to me. It was everything then. It was like, this is what I identify. with. This is who I am. You know. And of course, this is how a lot of art is made. A lot of great art is made. It's through adversity and everything else. So I definitely went into that and Anthony was there during the whole time and we did it together. Now, you say that you're doing this very insular and not having somebody to talk to, but you're going through the same thing. It starts insular, but then of course it becomes public. So are you guys communicating with

each other about this? A bit. A little bit. It's a way of a man. We were living in, I was living in Oakland and you were living in Santa Rosa. So we were like, there's distance and... A lot of other crazy shit was going on during that time, dealing with other personal things. But, you know, that was our way I think of, you know, just getting through it, right? Like I said, emancipating the feelings. And it didn't feel that way at the, like, at the time, you know, you, I didn't have, like, the scope to kind of realize what was happening. It's only now when I sort of, like, think back about the record.

And when I hear those songs and just hear how, like, cold they sound, I'm like, oh, yeah, we were, like, that's, it makes sense that that's what the record sounds like, given, like, what was going on. Yeah. And this would, of course, become the L-shaped man, literal post-punk music. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Probably our post-punk. Probably our most co-and, like, cohesive album.

Really cohesive. Yeah. And it feels like a brand-new. band with a brand new goal. Yes. How collaborative is making this record musically? And then... Gauntlet.

It was a gauntlet. Yeah. For sure. Yeah, I mean, it was like... Demoed. It was our first, the first album we ever properly demoed. Which you can all hear. Which you can all hear.

It's released. Matador to dig the demo quite correctly. Yeah. No. So... We will learn, you know, when you start a band so young, you know like who knew that we would be making our fifth LP as like you know early and mid 20 year olds um crazy but like you know should we have shown the demos to madador probably not you know because

that was the only because we were just doing it as sort of a way to be like we're stoked on like i think you guys will be stoked on this and if you thought if you think the the lshae man sounds like bare and cold and sparse. Like the demos are especially sparse. And they kind of didn't get it. And I think that kind of like maybe messed with us. Or maybe you, I mean, like. Messed with the flow a bit, yeah, I think.

Yeah. Probably. But. Whatever. With making the final version of the record? Like, are you intimidated by it now? Well, there was just a bit of confusion thrown into the mix, you know, because you're making this thing, you demo this thing that you like.

But you're still. on the fence about the lyrics too low are they a little too mumbly, a little too sad a little too this and that. And you're, you know, a chronic editor. Yeah. You know, like you're never

like that's just your natural way, I feel, right? And there's doubt involved, you know? It's like just like anything else, in any kind of expression, any kind of art form, there is that phase of will this connect

with the audience? At least at least for me and especially coming from the writing world that is a constant thought in your head right not so much i think with musicians sometimes but because i think of i had that writer background or coming into i was really getting into it then i had this like you know well what where are they going to think about this like a lot of that kind of thinking and it was totally new territory the delivery of the vocals in that sense you know like those demos were ice cold You know, like, don't come into my room, motherfucker. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Don't come into my vicinity. Yeah, totally. You know, I'm blue. And I think just that being in that headspace, too, you're very extremely vulnerable. So everything, you feel everything tenfold, you know. There's a lot of factors here that contribute to this. Big time. The label has just told you the demos aren't good enough.

Doubt. This is your, arguably your most personal artistic endeavor yet. Yeah, probably, yeah. It is a completely different band sonically. Yeah. So now going into something this extreme with your confidence shaken is no bueno. Yeah, and just talking about love and that kind of thing, it's a bit scary. I mean, there's eons of musicians doing this, of course.

There's a huge, long historical context to this, but the hardcore band had become in like this. I mean, it was a bit intimidating, I think. just the whole process and evolution of it. Yeah, it was, you know, everything surrounding Zoo was new in like this sort of like celebratory way and everything around Elle was like new in this like secret third. It wasn't like, like we loved the songs, you know what I mean and like still like, you know, I look back on those records. I think that Elle is like we definitely got better at songwriting and despite everything that

we're saying. I think it is a more confident album. but it was it was just it was so different you know you know and it was like but a different kind of raw than then the the intention behind the band at the beginning which is more vulnerable yeah that's it that's that's bottom line just you know violent raw to emotional raw yeah because you sing about you know for lack of you know better word love on ruined but when you're screaming it and the guitars are loud and the song's 30 seconds long, it's like easy to sort of like, there's, there's things to hide behind where there's no hiding on L.

When do you decide to go back to school? After zoo. Right after zoo. Yeah. So in this time, you've gotten a master's in poetry? No, no. I was going to San Rosa Junior College slowly over time, like 10 years, kind of just taking classes whenever I can get a break from touring.

And then I turned it up in 2010 or, 11, I climbed into math. I took the math test and I was like, I couldn't do any of the adding and subtracting fractions because I hadn't done math since, you know, high school. Why would you? So I placed in really low. So I had to take three years of math, I think, or something like that, to get to the point of transferring. Jesus. I was slogging along in that junior college and then they saw that I turned my grades from like C's to A's across the board and everything. And that's when I got that's huge and that's when I started being like okay I'm going to apply to UC system Berkeley of course was my number one school Bay Area Go Bears and then I got in and I

went to UC Berkeley for a little for two years from 2014 to 2016 and that's when yeah oh here we are you know and what writer as from the from the masters in poetry side yeah what writers would you say have influenced you most personally man I mean in that time I was reading John Barryman pretty heavily. The 77 dream songs were like the poet that I really enjoyed. Richard Speaks from Santero Junior College got me into him. And that kind of got me into like the confessional poetry, which I think delivers in L-shaped man and some of the other stuff, right?

Because you're talking verbatim about things that you're, raw things that you're going through in your life. Verbatim, but yes, in the second person. Yeah, very cool. And then I use the second person. obviously for that, which was a little bit of a trick. It was a little bit of deflection. It's this fucking L-shade.

Deflection, you know, but nonetheless. So he was a big proprietor of that in the beginning, and then I got into all the other confessional poets. But I originally wanted to go for short fiction. That's what I was really shooting for. There's a whole long story before, after that. I was at UC Berkeley. I got a, I applied to, I'll do a quick version of this.

I applied to a workshop with Joyce Carol. Oates. She denied me. So I went back to poetry. Unreal. To Syracuse. Yeah. What the hell does she know? She said, I liked your story, but it was a little too fantastical.

Because I wrote about some kind of, it wasn't fantasy. It was like, well, that's why you want to go to the work. It was fiction, man. That's why you want to go to the workshop. Yeah. But the fact that Joyce Carol Oates has played a role in your writing, T.N.3, is just simply pineapple. And that's what pivoted me to, to poetry.

because I talked to Robert Haas, a poet at UC Berkeley. He told me, he said, I believe that your poems have more authority than your short fiction. So I was like, okay, fuck this. He's going to tell me that. I'm going to poetry. Fuck yeah. And then I applied.

Now, as somebody who is now a learned poet, are there old ceremony lyrics that, one, embarrass you, two, impress you? Ah, man. Retrospectively. Yeah, I mean. I'm sure we're all embarrassed. by some thing. There's a lot of that. Yeah, there's a lot of like, I don't know,

youthful bliss in some of the early stuff on the demo. I think what I go to now is like this, the black and white thinking and anger that I very much use in the beginning days, I know now that that's not quite the total story, you know. But in the early writing, it was like a lot of hatred of all sorts, you know. And I don't know sometimes, Sometimes I feel like it's unqualified maybe, but, you know, I was just really in that time, in those days, I was lost a bit. Like I said earlier in the interview, you know, I didn't have a lot of places to go to talk to people about things, which I know it's not, when I get into the male aspect of it, that's a little bit, you know, I guess, that's a bit subtracting. You know, everyone deals with these kind of things, I think. But coming from my family, it was pretty working class.

Like, we didn't really sit down. I'd be like, so tell me exactly how you're feeling today, you know? So I think that now when I'm writing things, it's not as much of that nature, right? It's not as much like hate, hate, hate, hate. But of course. It happens. It happens. It happens, you know.

With L-shaped man, to me, I think there's something triumphed. about getting a bad pitchfork review? Like it's this musical ride of passage. Yeah. Have you ever read it? I've never read it. I've seen the score. I've never read any review after Roner Park.

Nobody should. But no. The guy that wrote it as a registered dietitian? He wasn't eating that now. Exactly. I've read them all. And I, you know, there's some parts I agree with and some parts I don't. You know, I think just like anything else.

I think that... Doesn't that guy review the pop-punk records? Of course he doesn't understand our record. Dick the fucking meal planning, all right? Scumbag? Yeah. There's some truth to some things, but again, it's like very subjective. It's one person's thoughts and feelings.

Which is important to remember. It is one person representing this publication. And that's okay. You know, he can not dig it and tell everyone that he doesn't dig it and then put the score there. But, you know, we have a fan base that disagrees. And that's fine, too, you know. Absolutely. So, you know, you have this doubt going into this record.

It's very different. It comes out. Are you surprised by the reception to it? Are you satisfied with the reception to it? It was a slow burn, I think, like, most of them, you know? I feel like, yeah, but it has burned. Like, this is the record. I feel like after Rohnert Park is the one that people reference the most.

Really? At least to me, like, and like, knowing, like, you know, the boring stuff, like, sales and, like, all that. like it's it seems to be the one and like violence violence is a weird thing because a lot of people think that the ruins seven inches on violence violence so that kind of like gives violence like this sort of you know extra sort of shine and there's when you're a new band things are different yeah yeah it's so easy to be the cool new band but um but yeah this one i feel like uh over if it it felt like the people who who got it really got it and it's till this day it's like one of the albums like when people tell me

is is their favorite record of ours it's it's usually this or runner park that's cool yeah yeah a lot of positive reactions to it from people who mind you it would be like like some crusty kind of spiked punkers

like this is my favorite one you know you get some of that sometimes and it's a trip I'm like really you like that the most okay and did matador eventually come around on it so the thing with madador and like again they are their friends and like it was what a privilege to be able to like work with you know with them for those years but like i do i feel like they totally ever got the band like looking back i feel like they when you know with zoo they were hoping that they were going to get runner park part two and then with

l shape they i maybe like wanted us to like really be a a post-punk band and like play 21 and up shows and like, you know, wear like suits on stage. You know what I mean? Like, or, or funny hat with multiple layers. Yeah. Funny hat. You know, like, so I kind of feel like we were just kind of figuring each other out

and we figured each other out the best that we could have in those times. And like, ultimately, like, it wasn't meant to be a forever relationship. So, I mean, did they come around? Like, they did every, they were so supportive. And, like, the things that they did, you know, do for us. those years are like are so great but ultimately like you know we're we we're a odd band we make your many things you know but like we make a record that sounds like l-shaped man but then we're like continuing to like tour and operate like a band who you know his favorite band is frugazi so

it's like that's a hard place to sort of like be in you know so it's like for a label i guess so i could kind of see it you know i mean because we were because we weren't going to play 21 and up shows and we weren't going to play in suits but yet we're making music that sounds like the second cure record so like i don't know i kind of get why they were like we don't really know what to do with these guys you know 100 percent so i totally get it it is like objectively not the band that they signed totally sonically for sure yeah but the reception has has warmed over time and you think the ceremony crowd has has embraced it i feel like kind of from the beginning oh good i'm were playing like our second show on tour was in san diego and like the reaction to like the non-singles

from that album was like yeah like the fans really i think maybe because the clarity of the vocals like you just heard every word and like that's huge there were hook you i mean like you just never know man just never know like and and i do think there was a reaction against the pitchwork with you yeah which is great i think i think people were like give me a like yeah right you know i mean like felt like we had like there was like some, a lot of like residual support, which is kind of like part of part of the right of passage of the foot fork reviews. You learn whether or not you have these, these diehards in your corner. You're a reviewer though and you go and you see there's this new band ceremony on your table and you go, okay, let's hear the discography. Let's go back to ruined and then violence,

and then you're left with this new thing you got on your table. It doesn't represent any of the older stuff. What are you going to do? Well, you're supposed to review it objectively. Yes. And it's, I don't, I don't think that that. But subjectively. It's a different band, but I don't think that makes it worse. Yeah.

And I think why it also kind of clicked with fans is because we had then been a band for 10 years. And we had, us and, like, the listener, our tastes seems like, if we tried to make, if we tried to play L-shaped man songs at, in a positive embers arena in 2005 it wouldn't work but now like those people are now 10 years older and they have 10 more years of of getting into different kinds of things so we were growing together so like we never like it felt like we weren't losing they've been along for the ride you know basically you know and what happens between 2015 and 2019 that makes the next record take four years now ross moved to syracuse yeah it was in syracuse i was in syracuse i was doing his NFA program.

Yeah, I mean, we played some, we played some shows, but I guess we were active, but it was hard to write because we. Yeah, we didn't get to get in a room. We now didn't all live in the same place, is the, is the, and also JD moved to Riverside because he was getting his, his PhD in pure mathematics. Damn, learned ass, man, some learners, shit, yeah. Yeah. And I was in L.A., so we up in, with H.B., Heather Bailey.

With, with the great Heather Leighley. Sowing the love. Yeah, that's right. Sowing the love. Yeah. Truly. Married. Unbelievable.

Yeah. Coming up on... Coming up on 10 years. Congrats, Heather. Decade. You're welcome, Heather. Big. Yeah.

So it was just really like a logistical... It was purely logistics. No, no. We could have made a record in that time. Yeah. We could have. If we all talked about it and wanted to try to make a record. heard. There just wasn't that conversation.

Well, also, we could have done it. We're a band that needs to be in the same room. Really? For sure. We, like, I've never been able to send Ross a demo or an idea and then get, like, that's just like we. This is a highly democratic man. It's not even democratic. It's more we like need, we need to hear the music loud with everyone playing to sort of understand where. We've tried to demo things alone. Where it's going. No good. And like Ross, you're very lively, like, you're a lively person. Like, you need to hear it from its inception to kind of understand it. From the beginning. I like it.

I like that. And Syracuse is that Earth Crisis-based decision? Yes. Okay. Yes. I figured. He's more of a past guy. One of the guys from Path of Resistance, he tattoos there, right?

DJ. I almost went and met up with him and hung out. I didn't get to do it because I learned that he was there, the very, very, very, end of my time there. But I know that he's a very happy, boisterous kind of guy that loves to hang out. I was kind of bummed that I didn't get to meet him. And I loved Path, dude. So fucking could have been you, man. Yeah. But check this out. This is a little story, a little tidbit. We had been, I mean, I could pull up the party trick. I'm not going to do it. But we had been in Syracuse in 2008. We pulled through there. Yeah? I checked. I go across the street down

into the liquor store grabbies, which was still there when I got their grad school, right? Get the little thing. We were skateboarding up and down the street. We played. We played. at the Westcott Community Center there on the corner. Now, when I applied to Syracuse, 10 years later, I was like, a little bit less than 10 years. I was like, wasn't really thinking about my time playing a show there. I knew we had played a show there, but I wasn't sure of where it was or what the fuck was going on, obviously.

So I get to Syracuse. I go up and down the street. I'm looking for places to rent, and I'm on Westcott. And there's the place where we played the show. So I'm back in this city, living up the street from this place I played a show. Later on, I step into that towards the end of my tenure at Syracuse. I'm dabbling in sobriety. I go into that room and I go into an A meeting.

We're sitting there. We're holding hands. We're doing the thing. And I'm just like, this is the room I played the ceremony gig in. 10 years, eight years prior. And here I am doing this other thing. And it's all coming together strangely. And, I mean, it goes back to what we're talking about with the touring and being in the same place and circumnaving it.

I couldn't believe that I was back in this room doing this thing. Grad school, of course, but somehow it centered me back into that place. It was a trip. And I lived up there the whole three years. I lived right up the street from the Westcott Community Center, you know. And touring gave me that kind of gift, I think. What a trip. But, you know, I felt like, oh, I was in the right.

place yeah yeah yeah yeah it was a good yeah yeah this that's a that's a that's a thing that's so few people will ever experience yeah it's it's strange life yeah it was incredible yeah you got to do it yeah 2019 eventually does roll around yeah long long break but you know it's it's back we got we're pulling the reins in we're getting back on the horse relapse records comes calling for ceremony which I think this is so cool that the indie label is bummed about the post punk record so the death metal label

wants the Devo record yeah yeah yeah you know the hummus that's fucking awesome and then to this day you're with relapse they get they get weird

well and they just get it like they understand like what ceremony is about and celebrate how does this come to be and how is this relationship today must be Rennie Reni, who is the, I believe his title is the vice president of relapse.

Reni, I'm sorry if that's slightly inaccurate. He was our lawyer. So he looked over our deal when we signed to Matador. And he's a Philly punk hardcore guy. So Andy is known in forever, a million mutual friends. So he had been someone that we had known for probably coming up on 10 years at that point. as like he also like managed bands but all the bands he what he the bands he managed were like not lame you know what I mean like he clearly was like able to navigate this sort of like industry

world in like a very like graceful and like positive way that never felt like uber capitalistic or gross at all at all so it was kind of natural like when when we didn't get picked up at out of Oregon. It was like, it was just like made sense to just go wherever Renny was because he's such a supporter of the band and like really understood it and like wants us to be only us. Right. So it was just kind of the obvious decision. So cool. You know. There's a like musically, I get like a fuck you element in this record. Like we're going to lean farther than we've ever and go all in. How was putting this record together

musically? Was this another gauntlet? It was so much different. Yes. In my mind, yes. Okay. But it was the first, so every record we've made up until then the four of us lived in the same place. So the writing for every record prior

was like, we get together once a week. And when we have 12 completed 12 to 16, however many pieces of work, we go to record them. This was the first time where we all lived far away from each other. So we got together for like a week straight in Riverside because J.D. was living there and he had a new, a new child. So we were all staying in Riverside for a week and just kind of eight hours a day going to the rehearsal space. And then there was one other like three day period where we worked on on instrumentals. And that was, so it was like, it was gontlet, but it was very concentrated.

And John... Which is extreme. Concentrated is extreme. It was extreme. It was like... But then we demoed... We demoed that record. And then we sent it to Will, yep, who produced it.

John Reese was unavailable. And then he started working on his notes. And that was kind of like, that's the boring, you know, like, you know, logistical answer. Yeah. But you say extreme. gauntlet as well now what does that mean to you this time well we went to wills wills is like the subterranean kind of place right and i wasn't there completely for all the drums and everything but i know that jake went through a pretty extensive drum takes for this will is very particular

with the drums wanted him to hit all the same hits velocity everything so there's that the record sounds of that nature right it sounds precise almost like like drum machini because of Will's precision with that. So that, mind you, six, what, six days of him and then maybe like a week of me being there. Yeah, six days of drums? Something like that. Yeah. Holy hell. And then me going into it and let me, I did a lot of takes on a lot of the vocals, right? He wanted it a certain way. He was pretty particular with it, which is fine, which is great. So in my mind when I'm saying gauntlety, yes, there's that aspect of it. The recording process. The recording, yeah. And then on.

On top of that, the record went, I guess it was before that, went to a new territory because you did your synths away from everyone. And we didn't hear it until it was just like waxed. So me being, of course, the control freak that I am, when I heard all of Anthony's dabblings, I was like, wasn't ready for it because I hadn't heard it yet. And I was like, this is a whole new record. Yeah.

So for me, it was a little bit difficult. You can say. Because a new wave element gets... Yeah, and I just never heard those sounds before. Like, I haven't heard them in the practice studio or anything. Yeah, like the songs that were sort of kind of like written, like half the songs were written with and played in the rehearsal space. With the demo.

With like the guitar and then the others with like synth. So the other part, like the songs that didn't have the sense in the recording or the songs that didn't have, I'm sorry, the songs that didn't have synth in the rehearsal space or the songs that I didn't have guitar in the rehearsal space, then did, you know. So it was jarring. And this is a moment for me to practice acceptance. I wasn't going to fight tooth and nail and I wasn't going to tell him to change what

he did or to hear a different version. I was just like, I'm going to have to have this be the record. And how do you feel about it now? I have mixed feelings about it. Interesting. You know, but I think it's a good record. It's a ceremony's nature where it's different. from the last and it's tripped out and weird and funky and everything else you know we really like i feel

like honed in on like on songwriting songwriting i think is weird big time songwriting yeah like record for that that it was sort of an exercise in in songwriting and i have fought too to the nail about too many i don't want a chorus here i don't want a pretty thing you want unstructured i don't want fucking harmony and all this but in that record it was all of that you know like really stepping into it which i think is a great was a great training for me and it got me to understand music a little more but my brain music wants like the same note for five minutes straight no changes hit yourself on the head with the on a pot and pant you know so ceremony and anthony of course teaches me to say well that's not quite music you know you if you want to do music these are

the things you need to do in music, melodies, etc. Right. You know what I'm saying. So that's what I've been doing. But then, like, without the filtration of someone who wants one note for five minutes, you know what I mean? Like, that sort of mindset isn't discounted either. Right.

And that's like, that's the sound of ceremony. That's how you get songs like sick. That's how we get songs that, like, neither of us would ever make any of, any of the songs, I mean, this is obvious, but the songs that we have would never. come to be without sort of that like the full context that that struggle and that is why we are who we are and that's the only way you know if it was my way only no one would listen to the music you know what i'm saying if it was anthony's way only maybe more people listen to the music but now it wouldn't be the it wouldn't be the same yeah do you feel when this lands that it's more or less divisive than

l-shaped man i feel less i mean by that point we have done if you are still on the on the on the on the on the ride you know you know to expect something unexpected right do you feel like you guys have arrived at this place creatively where you can functionally be whatever you want i find i i feel like we've always done that yeah i feel like when you're not like l-shaped man was like the biggest yeah step what do you have to lose yeah i'd like to fuck around a little bit more but you know i think that yeah you would like to fuck around a little bit more but you know i think that yeah you would like to fuck around a little bit more but you know i think that yeah you would like to fuck grow over more? Yeah, we could, you know, we could see what else is in the bag, you know, what's in the hat, you know? Okay, and don't we? Yeah. Yeah, but I do, yeah, it's, I have a feeling like

at this point, especially with all the different styles and things we've doubt within the ceremony is pretty bottomless, meaning that you could kind of keep digging and keep going down and finding more, more fun stuff. So let's get to it. We're almost there. You put out this

crazy record after a four-year gap. 20-20s, shit. up to be this great busy year and then wall like all of us yes how do you spend that time well we were one of the lucky ones where we released in the spirit world now in September of 19 and did a full we did two US tours and a Europe tour and then we got home from that second US tour then that's when shutdown happened so a lot of friends bands a lot of a lot of creatives you know based on like when they were releasing their stuff got you know, weren't so lucky. So we were able to like, you know, when you have been on the road for so long,

being home sounds is just so nice. So we had that feeling of like at least we get to, you know, we weren't itching to be gone. Especially after three tours and three months essentially. Yeah. So for us it didn't affect us that much. And I think maybe we're one of the only bands. Like we played in February and March of 2020, and we played in December of 2021.

Wow. We've never gone a year without playing a show, you know. So we kept it moving. So why seven years between records? I mean, I don't know. I got out of grad school, came straight to L.A., found my wife who was on a ceremony photo shoot, was taking photos of us.

That's how I met her. We quickly got together during COVID. Ended up living together during that time, which was wild. And I, you know, in that time, in that seven-year span, I got married, had a kid, changed jobs multiple times. It was writing music and all kinds of different bands. All of us were. We're doing different projects and gathering, I guess you could say. And I think we wanted to get together.

but there was a couple different. There was one conscious year. We got home from, so after when the shutdown lifted, we went on tour with Turnstile and we released the vanity single. And then, so we did the glow-on tour. And then we got home from that, we're like, let's do our own tour off the single. And then we did that.

And then when we got home from that at the end of 22, obviously we don't have to speak on this as much you don't want. But it was like there was a we were like, hey, we need to an indefinite break. There was about a year and a half there where we were consciously like not, not doing anything. Sure. For, you know, 20, you know. Personal reasons. 17 years is a long time and a lot of changes and all sorts of things, right?

So that's seven years. And honestly, I feel like, I do feel like Ross maybe, I don't know, I'm curious how what will you think. about this. We probably if we didn't, if that turn-s-out tour hadn't happened, we probably would just would continue writing after the van, after those two vanity songs. You know, so like, instead of

a single or EP, there probably would have been an LP in 2023, probably. You know, but then like the touring kind of just got the best of us and we need to break. And music was so fucking reinvigorated. Totally. Live touring

was insane. And like, I will say, I hope that did not come across. The Glant Tour was so fun. And it was like just a blessing to, not a blessing. But it was, but, you know, we were so, it was so fun to, like, see what was happening to them. Yeah. To turn style at that time to be, like, their front row for it was like, just so fun. So the touring was great until it kind of, like, got the best of us.

And we needed to take a break. So, so much in between these seven years, how do you decide it's time to get back to work? Living close to each other, proximity. All right. Yeah. Proxies back. Ronert Park. Ross was living in L.A. Yeah.

You'd move to Pasadena. Yep. So we were, we... I was in Pasadena. Ooh. Yeah. And then, so in those, in that break time, the only thing we did was the secret set at Soundfuri. I'm sorry.

Loved it. Yeah, he lied to my face. You know that? Barely. Barely. But he did. Yeah. Well, I told it, we barely played.

Oh. We almost didn't play. Right. I did not barely lie to your face. But if I may. You thought I was like in on the lie. I thought you were winking at me. No.

Like, do you know who's playing? No. And I was like, no. And I felt you were like. We've talked about that. I know. It's a well-documented. I just want the public to be on my side.

They're not. He's a liar. It's my show, all right? I'm Kim Jong-un. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We were close.

Yeah, I get you. We started bouncing ideas off each other. Everyone wanted different things. Long songs, short songs. But that's always... Punk songs, maybe not something, you know. And that's, yes, that's always the case. I think the break...

I think the break of the only two shows being the Sounding Fury show and the Runner Park show, like just there being a break and then having the two things we did being like you know like fun just kind of made us be willing to made us inspired

yeah maybe people want this maybe people want this and let me tell you something tell me your dream this is my favorite ceremony record wow sick smoked it seven thanks man

take seven years again you know I I really think this is like the final evolution of ceremony because it has It pulls from everything Dude the best of everything

It's hard It's fast It's pretty I think it has your best melodies Your best hooks I agree And it has the best song you've ever written Paradise

Yeah What a fucking track It's a beast I love that song That's Anthony's song Of course. Well, it's all, it's, come on. It's all the song.

But, I mean... The egg. Yeah. The timing of this song, so poignant to my life currently. And it continues to be poignant as we lose more and more people. Right. And being able to just name your friends by name in this song and have this as this beautiful closing statement on this record. What an incredible job.

Yep. Thank you so much. Thanks, man. It's beautiful. It took a long. That was a hard one to come together. And like once we finally cracked the code and unlocked it, we were like. So we needed John, I mean, John Reese, who produced L-shaped Man, came back for this one.

Only difference being we gave John a demoed album to work with. We didn't know who was going to produce it when we produced El-Shade Man when we demoed it. This one, we knew he was going to produce it. from the writing of the first note. So we were able to kind of like have somebody. WWJD. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Kind of just like we knew there was a middleman or a negotiator from moment one.

You know, so we didn't, it allowed us, I think, to not maybe put so much pressure on ourselves. So it's like, that's good. If a song got to like 70% done and we would get to the place where then we would start to not know where to go. You know, we'd be like, you know what? Let's just put it aside until we have John. Spare the gauntlet, ask the guy. Yeah, yeah. Let someone gauntlet with us.

We knew he was going to change a lot of things too, because that's his body. And did he? Well, it's... Little tweaks. Paradise is a weird one because it was so... It took so long, but it was a full circle where what we ended up back to was not different from where we started. And we tried so many other...

avenues. That worst instinct sometimes is just one. And he was really instrumental in saying, guys, I don't think this one needs that much work to be done. These other, now these other ones. Now, in comparison to L-shaped Man and Spirit World, the gauntlets, you know. Always. This sounds different.

This feels different. This is not gauntlet-y as the other ones. This is pretty. It definitely sounds the most like you. Lise Faire. Like, this sounds like you singing the most, like any of our other records, I feel like. Yeah. I agree.

I don't know. Some of the, I have. It's so natural. I've never felt like I really hit the Marco ceremony. I don't want to get too much into that, but I just something. I just have not found my groove. I've done it and tried. Do you think that you're like, do you look at yourself as a singer?

Now I do I never grew up like that You know I never did I never I like I blundered into this thing You did I didn't really know I was gonna do this at all I just kind of tried

So I have repeated attempts of trying to do ceremony And I think we've made some great songs But I just I haven't been able to Really feel into this Until this record I think There's some things on this record

Then I'm like okay that is me And I feel like Like the intro song Prograde I feel like that is Bangor dude That is me 100% you know death destruction mayhem you know yeah what a hook yeah accident of a song tell me about it oh my god we made this record with like we got together because again we all live in different parts of

california now and so we would get together for three days and just trying like hash out as many ideas as possible that we did that like four times and in doing so we came up with about 17 or so ideas. And it was the last day of the last one. And like, Ross, he's kind of alluded to this here, Ross wishes we could write 40 instrumentals. You know what I mean? Like, he just wants, like, what else, like, what else you guys got? What else you guys got? So it was our last day of our, last day of writing, we're doing, we're going into the studio to record, like, pretty soon. and we have like 16, like 60 to 95% done songs, right, that we're going to work out with John.

And we're done. We have so many. And Ross goes. He thinks we're done. Yeah, he thinks we're, I think we're done. Because it's 7 o'clock, the rehearsal space closes at 8. Yeah. You're never done.

We're done. And Ross goes. Are you at Summit? We're at Soundwave in Oakland. Okay. Shout out Metallica. Shout out in Vogue. So.

Shout out Powerhouse, too. Shout out Powerhouse. And I'm like, we're done. We have so many songs. This is definitely enough for a record. Ross goes, do you guys get anything else? And I'm like, dude, come on, man. Haste on, man.

He's like, I'm just asking. And I was like, I mean, I have this. Like, this is the only other thing I had. I wasn't going to bring it. I just think it's like, okay. And I played Death Destruction of Mayhem. And he was like, yes. Play it longer.

And then everyone else, everyone else, everyone else fell into it. Elongate that. Yeah, yeah. And Lord did you ever. And then that's... It's a platinum punk song, dude. It's a great one.

It is perfect. We, even after we recorded it, we didn't... I think because of the origin was affecting our... What do you mean? That's the last one. Yeah, we were allowed to the origins. Like, we were projecting something onto the song based on how it was originated,

just like flippantly and everything. But when relapse, suggested that relapse is great because they suggested it to be the first single but they were like but whatever you guys want and I had to like live I'm like okay the people outside

everybody outside who's heard this record is saying that's the one let me live with it for a week or so then we and then we did and we really wrapped her head around like that being the kind of one of ones I had in my mind gray matters I am cover of I am a wall I am the walrus

oh yeah I just thought I just heard that song and there. And the enchant where they go into the kind of droney enchant of that song. And then I kind of executed it on Death Church of Man. It had that. I saw that egg and then it had. Yeah, a little bit of British. A little British. Yeah. How did it feel kind of digging fully back into the hardcore bag for the first time? It's totally natural. It was 11 years. Natural because we had just tour we did a west coast tour with circle jerks and negative approach yes so we were mostly done with the songs with like we had a lot of ideas when we did that tour and at the end of that tour i was

so inspired by just being around all of them and i'm talking about the germs with keith morris and i'm talking about social d with mc5 john's on mc5 yeah exactly so that being around them was like was so inspiring that I for the you know it just made sense for us to kind of like and that's where that's where other hells came from so just proxy of negative approach negative a proxy yes and the jerks I love it and the CJs yes yes that's not as no it's not yeah yeah wow really helped shaped what the end game of this record I think so yeah I mean that's where I wrote so They always had. They always had, baby.

They always had to get you had to remind yourself. Well, with other hells, when we got done from that tour, I wrote like 10 to 20, like, first wave hardcore songs for fun as an exercise. Not thinking that they're going to be. No. Wouldn't this be so funny? But then at the next ceremony practice, I started playing the one I liked the most, which of being other hells. And Jady and Jake fell into it. And I remember Ross being like.

to it is such a funny way to describe it. Well, they just... They went with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They went with it. Yeah, yeah. And Ross was kind of like, wait, for real? And we're like, I don't know, what do you think?

Were you excited? I kind of laughed. He was like... But then that was the quickest... Then the next day you came with full lyrics. Yes, yeah. So we're like, oh. It's rudimentary, right?

Yeah. The way the pattern is and everything, it calls back to the old times. Teen-eye. You can just... And that's what I try to say. I mean, the simplest the song structure, the better the lyrical content will be upon that. And there's a, there is a thing with ceremony that you do simple so well historically,

where you turn these simple musical refrains into these timeless things that live forever in your discography. Simplice. So, of course, you hear it for some, you're like, we can't do that. Yeah. Oh, wait. That's what we do. When I heard terminal addiction, I came to it. I was like, this is for me, dude.

This is for me. That's what it's all about, dude. Have to have that, dude. And now you do again. Yeah. Yes. So there's a relief in your mind of. Yeah, I mean, we, there was a bit of conversation in and around this.

I remember the backyard of the house past it, you know, being like, we would like to make something with more energy. But energy was the only. Energy was the only word. It wasn't just cold. Yeah, no, not, no. And going back to the audience thing, I was struck on that kids want some energy. They want to jump around.

They want to lose their minds. So let's give it to them. And of course, Andy's like, fuck the audience, let's just do whatever we want. You know, we'll do our hair. Whatever the fuck. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

And I was like, okay. Not those exact words. And let's come together on that, as we did. And you did? And you remember showing me these songs in the car? So I was, I really don't, I don't mean this to be. be self-aggrandizing.

Okay. At all. And I love all our records. But each record that we made, I hear it done and mastered for the first time. Even before then, to me, it's obvious with the first single or what the two or like the two or three songs that we're going to play live. Which many labels would say, if that's not the case, then you don't have your single.

Sure. The only other time after making an album where I heard, the master and was like, man, there's like a lot of songs that could be kind of live, you know, that we play live for a long time or singles, whatever you want to, you know, was Roner Park. I remember talking about Roner Park before recording it with, with a friend and kind of like thinking of all the songs. I'm like, man, there's like eight songs in this record that we might be able to play live often. Tell me your dream was the first time I had that feeling where there wasn't the obvious one single.

And I would say from an outsider in a very good way because there's so many options. Like Paradise, the five minute opus closer could have been single one. So I wanted that. You wanted that. So to John. So to John. But like, but I actually liked, but anyway, so I enlisted, I was like, Colin, these are, these are some songs. What do you think?

It was the first time I ever really even felt inspired to like bring anyone from the outside because like I truly felt and again I'm not trying to I would be the first to say I right after making a record like that's the single that's the that's the only song that we should play live or like whatever this was the first one in a long time where you know I felt like there was most of them where I feel like could agree one agreed fully agreed you did it right love this record tell me your dream is out now on relapse records you should check it out right now go through all the way to the end man i'm telling you that payoff is enormous it gets interesting it does in the best way what is the biggest misconception about ceremony i think maybe is

that that that we attempt to change yes it's that it's premeditated that they're thinking about doing this that is a conscious effort that's not happening okay what's something you believe at 20 you disagree with now and what's something you still whole whole heartedly agree with. I think I've talked a little bit about that. I think maybe Anthony can have more. Anger and the hate and the whatnot. Yeah, I just think I didn't, building my identity around those things rather than knowing

that they're simply just passing feelings in time, you know. Well said. Very good. I think. Veganism? I'm pretty much the same since the band started. Yeah. vegan, straight-edge,

Prince of Suss. It keeps a three low-key. You know? Yes. Doing great. Yes. What is the best decision you ever made? I laughed while writing that.

That's crazy to say. I was laughing alone, typing that question. It's the best decision you ever made. Ever made. He just mouthed something to me. I don't know what he said. What is he said? You could say it.

I was going to say that. Yeah, probably having a son because I fought tooth and nail against her for a long time. I was of the making. I was of, you know, the house that bringing a kid into this Thresher is not the best thing to do. Violence.

Famine, war, what have you. All the things. Probably should not a good idea to do it. Right. But then, I even got to, like, fights with my family members about this, right? Like, vehement against it.

And then Ned and I, when we didn't really try for it, it kind of just happened naturally, which is the way that I think when it gets in your mind, things happen and budding, but a boom. But I'm glad I did it. It's changed my life completely. I'm much more of a wholesome person now. I think more about someone else and myself, the old adage stands, you know. You're doing great.

Which is important. Love it. Great answer. Yeah. What's best thing you're in your man? Um, no, no, can't be that. It can't be that? No, I can't be that.

No, I just, I just kidding. I can't be. No, but you're the best decision he ever made, he said. Yeah. Well, I was, I was, that's, that's what Ross knew I was going to say, and then he, he stopped me. I didn't stop. Which he was wrong to do, because, because you are. But I, but I, but I actually pushed back on it a little bit because I didn't make the decision.

Right. Yeah. You, I, it's kind of massage. You allowed me into your life. Yes, yes. You allowed me into your life. So I can't say you in that exact phrasing of the question. But you are my favorite part of my life.

Great answer. I guess so if we're saying that, maybe asking my dad for a guitar for my birthday. Oh, man. Boom. Because we wouldn't be here today without. Can you? Start again. I will.

Can you make meaningful art as a genuinely happy person? Yes, 100%. Okay. 100%. 100%. But only because I've stepped more into the fun, feeling like, I guess, having it be not so much a chore. More feeling like experimenting and the fun of it.

Well, also, what's meaning? Yeah. What is meaning? You know? It would be meaningful to you, I would assume, right? Like, do you feel it? Do you love it? Does it move you?

Is it an expression of those things? Is it an honest expression? Yeah. Many people are wondering. What do you think that little fucker and Roner Park would think of the person you become? A poser. You know? I don't think so.

Where's the fucking anger, dude? Where is it gone? Instant poser. Where is it gone, dude? You've changed. It's there, dude. It's there, of course. So, you know, so much changes in adulthood, right?

Like, I partaking things that I never would have thought I would have partook in. I wore sandals with socks to the grocery store the other day. They'll kill you. I said I would never have done that, but I do it. You know, sometimes I'd do it. You've also stopped partaking in things that you never thought you'd stop partaking in. Yes. Stop partaking in certain things.

Yes. Congrats. And just, I don't know, some of the, yeah, some of the old thinking is. If that little fucker knew who you were. It's self-annihilation. He would be down. It's self-annihilation. You're trying to preserve, which I think is maybe we're also some of the having a sign thing happened.

Immortality and everything. If that little fuck on Rona Park heard, tell me your dream. what would you think? I think he'd still dig it. Dude, I think he would really love it. It's kind of got the same movements to it. I agree. I think it's the best one.

After everything you've done, hardcore ceremony, touring the world, poetry, academia, all of it, what are you still chasing? I mean, just being a creative person, I think, and this goes back to what we talked about in the beginning,

I right now in this moment, have my mind set on what's the next record to make and whatever band it is. There's various bands that we do. Ceremony, I'm thinking that right now with the other bands I'm thinking that. And I'm also thinking that with other creative endeavors, you know, whether it's like drawing, painting, writing, really want to do another book, haven't been able to make the jump. But as you know, being a creative person, that's what you're thinking about.

the next 100% always. The thing that is moving you. Mm-hmm. But the thing that is moving you is so mysterious. And it's not something you can really grab onto.

That's the fun part. Which is what makes it incredible. What makes it fun, you know, is that it's like, it's omnipresent. It's out there all the time, but you can't really, you know,

you try to materialize it into music or whatever else, but really, it's totally fucking mysterious. Yeah. You know, so. Great. answer. Yeah, I think so. Just whatever the next thing is going to be. And that leaves me with just

one last question. Oh my God. The big one. Ross Farrar, can you tell us your top four hardcore records of all the time? I can, but I think somebody wants to maybe take the cake on this. Well, so I was like, hey, I think it would be fun if I've tried to guess them. I love this. But then today at coffee, Ross said, well, there's one, there's, you're definitely not going to guess. There's one you probably never heard of. Okay. And then he said, and they're all 12 inches. I was like, well, LPs.

LPs. Why the classic definition? Long play. Yeah. So I was, so now I, I feel like this game is less fun because I'm, it's harder. That's why. It's harder for him. Well, I just didn't know that, I didn't know the, I just said, I was unaware of the.

There's strict rules. Yeah. Yeah. I love the strict rules, but I would have guessed negative approach. I would have guessed probably urban waste. BP. I would have guessed nihilistics. that LP is pretty great

but not so that's not top four I just got an OG of it but it's not to top four not the top four to end total recall is not that's a collection that is yeah but you know I didn't know how far you're late I've seen it I've seen it if we were going to do 45s it would be some of those

I've seen it set on the show before you know yeah no 100% for sure so with that said also why I wanted to get strong contenders why why you're such an interesting person for this question is because like we said before like I know that like group sex yeah or you know the blue record or like great records you know there's so many albums I know that were formative of you but just knowing how you consume music yeah I don't see you like listing one that was like your

favorite this is so fun 16 Ross talking well because when I was thinking about this you know there's of course the old very strong standing American hardcore punk records everyone loves and I love them too. But I didn't want to give them just that because it would be a little bit, you know, I don't know, I guess, reductive or cliche maybe or something. I want the honest truth. Which is interesting because I was reading the American Best American Poetry and they did the 2000 episode was they were asking all the poets in the book to name their favorite books from the century, right? And it was all the theme, all the classics. T.S. Eliot, it, odd end, you know, on and on, right?

William Carlos Williams. And I could do that with the hardcore. And guess what? There is going to be some of those. I love it. Because it has to be. There should be. But my definition was this.

It was like a full LP, hardcore, straight up, capital H, hardcore. And it had to be something from my past that I can listen to now and be stoked on. That was a huge part of it. Longstanding, it will always be played throughout all generations of time. Sure. there. So, with the definitions. Yes.

The first one, I'll start with a weird one that you probably wouldn't think. Crucifix, dehumanization. Fuck, yeah. San Francisco, Bay Area. Okay. Of course, you know, D-beat Anarcho, really interesting, interesting singer, Cambodian guy. He just had a cool approach and sound,

and it's just fucking powerful music to it. I have to give a shout out to Carl Cardover for getting me into that record. It was right when ceremony started. It was right when ceremony started because Carl Cardover did an interview for Maximum Rock and Roll for me. I went to his house and he put it in all this crazy shit on my iPod at the time. And that was one of the records I was like, this is what I want to channel, dude.

And I still listen to it. I'll listen to the gym. I'll listen to it any old time. You'll hear listen to Crisis Man. You're like, that's exactly what you were trying to do. A second one, of course. California. You got to put California in here.

Damaged. That'll never end. I'm shocked. Really? I love, but I love, I love how incorrect I am. The feeling. The look. Yeah.

That is California. That's who I am. And the songs. The songs are incredible. The songs. The songs. The songs. It's just fucking nuts, dude.

We almost, we almost covered spray paint the walls instead of, instead of Red Sea on really? Yes. That would have changed your life, I think. Another one would be, this is a little bit controversial because some people like, You don't like the kind of dungeon sounds of this fan, but you like the hardcore version, but of course American hardcore.

I like it fast. Earth AD Misfits. Whoa. Big, big record for music here. Oh, yeah. And I'll take that above all the other Misfit stuff. Whoa.

Yes. Green hell, dude. Dude, bang, here. You like that? Queen Woss? Kid me? First song we ever covered. Is that true?

On the front, dude. The first time we ever covered was Mommy kind of gone and killed tonight. Oh, right. Of course. I paused in her was, Pusset on the front, dude, with the crazy graveyard. Bontors. Yeah.

And then the Wolf's Blood art is just as cool and you don't see it half a time. It's so good. And then, um, wow. I guess, you know, the two, the two I'm going to have, can I just say one, can I say, I can't say five? There's going to be a hand. Give me one honorable mention. Kids will have their say. What are you going to do, you know?

Those vocals, the fucking power and energy of the music, it's incredible. Mm-hmm. That may be intertwined or swapping with infestl. They're formative. Yeah. Those are very formative records. Where would ceremony be without infestate? But I might even put Eutha today on there.

Which one? In this alone, dude. Really? I love that one, dude. Wow. If I want to be positive, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. That's the one to go to for me.

I think you did a great job. There's more in there, of course. Those are the big standing ones. So which of those last two are the honorable mentions? In a couple months, that might change a little bit. That's how it goes, though. Honorable mention would be, I would say, infestine. Okay.

Okay. You know. What were in, Anthony? Is anything going to do his? Have you ever done it on him? I don't know if I did it. I don't think we did this yet. What's your top four of course? I was even think because we were focusing on you.

Do you want to do it? He was going to say minor threat, discography, but that's not an LVV. Yeah, but you could say, you could do Philly. If I'm just... That's not seven. Well, then you can't. Then there's no minor threat LP. All sevens.

Yeah. Yeah. I think mine would be, and I would probably cheat a little and have sevens and 12s. I don't discount seven inches. Oh. I say they're a lot.

Okay. Record. You know? That might change the game. If we're doing seven inches, just off the dome, minor threat, negative approach,

United Blood. Come on. Nervous breakdown. And jealous again. If I'm doing 12s, it's Fresh Fruit, DK. Yeah. It's... Greatest opening track in punk history.

Probably GI germs. Yep. Yep. It's probably... There's one that you said that I felt like could have been in mine. Classic, dude. I mean, I'd probably throw maybe my war in there. Oh, my God.

It's like six, isn't it? It's tough. Yeah. Well, you did seven inches, too. I mean, satisfaction, maybe. Damn.

You can hear it in the ceremony demo. Maybe. That's crazy. But this is, you know. So cool. Yeah, but D. D.K. D.K.

I mean, probably, you know what? D.K. D.K. D.K. germs. Adolescence. Fourth spot's hard.

Fuck you. Yeah. Can't be swish swam. And then. There we have it. You swap them out. That is our time this week. Guys, thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you. What a fun chat. Heather, thank you for having us. No problem. All right, awesome. This was such an incredible process. Group sex. Definitely top four.

What are you going to do? Group sex. You had my brain chemistry going through years. Well, you had time to think about it. I did. I thought a lot about it. Yeah. I thought a lot about it.

Sorry to interrupt the outro, but I mean, but duh. I get it. But duh. I do get it. Dug. Group sex. DK germs fucking adolescents

Group sex goes crazy man Can't wait to talk about it It's just incredible Can't wait to talk about it more someday Ross, thank you for taking the trek Nice to meet you. Yes Nice to meet you both You always touch you'll

Tell Me Your Dream is out now And it's fantastic I think it's the best record They've ever made And I hope you all enjoy it And enjoyed this episode Ross if you have any final thoughts They would go into that left camera there

Right here? Yeah Hmm I always hate that question Because I'm lost to You don't have to say anything I don't know You can just say bye if you want

We got a show coming up In Montreal That's the first show That was weeks ago Yeah that was weeks ago We got a show November 20th

In Los Angeles Oh November 20th in Los Angeles I believe the place is called The Novo Novo Yeah Novio

I was going to say Sovo But that's not a place That's right. All right. Exactly. Thank you all for watching and we'll see you next week. Bye.

Do you wish you could just hit skip on the worst parts of your life? You know the same way you can skip an ad? I get it. I'm Siaiaia and I live in Ice Cove. I've made some questionable decisions that didn't end up the way I planned. And today I'm still figuring it out. Somehow things usually get worse before they get better. Apparently, that's how I roll.

So bundle up and come along for the bumpy ride. Stream a new episode of North of North Tuesdays on CBC Gem.