HardLore - Freddy Madball Part 2: 1995 - 2026

Episode Date: April 2, 2026

We're back with the second half of our conversation with one of hardcore's all time greatest frontmen: Freddy Cricien AKA Freddy MADBALL. We discuss their hectic, but iconic performance at the legendary Dynamo Open Air 1995, the evolution of the karate mosh, the classic NYHC Documentary, Demonstrate my Style, Look My Way, Hold It Down, Madball initially breaking up in the early 2000s, New York Hardcore after 9/11, and so much more...  Thank you all for joining us for both parts of this incredible chat, thank you to Freddy for joining us and for paving the way. Hardcore lives. Madball's next LP "Not Your Kingdom" is coming soon. _______________ Cool Links: • Get 15% off DUNABLE GUITARS with code HARDLORE • Get 10% off MILLS VINTAGE site-wide with code HARDLORE Get 10% off GUILTY PARTY site-wide with code HARDLORE and grab some of our favorite clothing brands of all time. _______________ 00:00:00 - Start 00:01:27 - Dynamo Open Air Festival 1995 00:10:04 - The Evolution of Moshing 00:15:53 - The NYHC Documentary/Rick Ta Life 00:34:14 - Stigma Leaving Madball 00:35:30 - DEMONSTRATING MY STYLE: Pride, Madball's Growing Influence, Agnostic Front Reunion 00:53:12 - Pardon This Interruption... 00:57:41 - LOOK MY WAY: Leaving Roadrunner, Contributing Musically, Developing the Live-isms 01:10:57 - HOLD IT DOWN: Legal Trouble, Perfecting the Madball Sound, Breaking Up 01:22:38 - September 11th, 2001 01:29:00 - The NYHC EP & The H2O Show That Brought Back Madball 01:33:30 - LEGACY: Introducing Madball to the Next Generation 01:40:23 - INFILTRATE THE SYSTEM: A Prophecy Fulfilled 01:45:52 - New York Hardcore Word Association 01:48:46 - EMPIRE: Madball in the Late 2000s 01:54:28 - Most Underrated NYHC Band of All Time 01:56:26 - HARDCORE LIVES & FOR THE CAUSE: Is There an End in Sight? 02:04:03 - Ending the Lockdown: Tompkins Square Park 2021 02:09:07 - The Future of Madball 02:11:45 - Madball Eats Good 02:17:13 - Top 4 HC Records Of All Time  HardLore: A Knotfest Series, Fueled by Monster EnergyEdited by Steven Grise • Title sequence by Nicholas MarzlufJoin the HARDLORE PATREON to watch every single weekly episode early and ad-free, alongside exclusive monthly episodes.Join the HARDLORE DISCORD for community discussions and to participate in our future Q&A episodes.FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER, SPOTIFY, APPLEFOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAMFOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER For sponsorship opportunities, email us! [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Something I've been saying for years, and I'll say to the new generation. I love the new music that's coming out. I love all these new bands. I love that they're all doing their own thing, and there's so much freedom to do your own thing. But don't forget where this comes from. Don't forget the roots of the music. And the bands like Agnostic Front, who literally paved the rows that we all walk on. Hello, welcome. It's Hardlord Time. Welcome back to part two of this incredible two-part special with the great Freddie Madball.

If you haven't watched last week, go back and check it out. We get into finding hardcore at seven years old through Agnostic Front and his brother Roger. We talk about starting Madball when he was 12, Ball of Destruction, dropping many suckers, and of course the great debut LP set it off. Now, this week, part two, we start right around 1995 when Matt Bowler. Maddwall played the legendary Dynamo Open Air Fest. Enjoy. March 6195, Madball plays Dynamo in Einhoven, Netherlands. Big one. Certified, Guinness Book. Biggest book. Biggest one.

Biggest one. Guinness Book, largest crowd in the history of the world. Wow. What was... That's crazy when you put it like that. It was a big crowd, I say. I mean, I watched it last night because I wanted to make sure I got one thing right that I'm going to ask you about. that I've been wanting to talk to you specifically about for like 20 years.

Sure. First, before we get to that, like, what was that, like, it is the biggest sea of people I've ever seen in my life? It was shocking, man, to be honest, because, like, we're just coming up. You know, like, we're just, we're a new band. 95. We're a new band. Like, we're, like, even though, like, people think, like, oh, yeah, that's prime madball. I mean, we're, like, just figuring ourselves out still.

Like, we just drop, set it off. Like, we're still figuring this out. I don't feel like I was, like, as a front person, where I'm at now is different. Like, everything, you know? Like, you know, you grow, you evolve, you figure, you figure this thing out. We were green, man. We were green. We had never played a, I don't think we had ever played a festival, to be quite honest.

Like, we had, like, not only was it one of the bigger shows we had ever played up to that point as Madball, but it was it was massive. Well, many bands say it's the biggest show they've ever played. That is the biggest show we've ever played still. And we've gotten good fortune to play a lot of big, cool festivals.

I mean, we've been on festivals together. But, like, that one was something else. That one's crazy. That one was something else. I attribute that show a lot, not to knock MAD, They were our agent at the time And I think that Roadrunner played a heavy role

In the reason we played that show We were on Roadrunner We were in like big company of people And if you look at that lineup It's heavy roadrunner Yeah big time It's basically Roadrunner Fest Yeah basically

So yeah it was crazy man And we were just like it was horrible Like we were horrible Well, I read you were sick as a dog. I was sick as a dog. I was like, fuck. That was probably the last time I was sick.

But, no, I mean, no, I, you know, like, it was just one of those things where, like, the road. Yeah. Flying there. You know, eating poorly, drinking too much. And we hung out with the business, I think, the night before. That's got to be some real part of here. Played like London. Yeah.

Underworld or something. Which we still play. Yeah. And then we're like, hey, we're off to do this festival tomorrow. I wonder what that's going to be like. And they're like, oh, yeah, good luck. You know, like, and then, you know, and then, like, we drive through the night from England. Yeah.

Because I'm wearing a bit, I'm pretty sure I'm wearing a business shirt. I think you start in a business shirt. I start a business shirt and end up. Yeah, I always ended up my shirt off. This road. Some days are over. I don't do that anymore. Back then, that was commonplace.

Yeah. We were hanging out with our homies. And we had, you know, we had become friends with those guys, great guys. I mean, legends. in their own right. And so I was feeling like terrible all of a sudden. I woke up and I was like, great. We're about to play this festival.

I've never done a festival. We've never done a show this big. But I still didn't know the scope of how big it was going to be. I'm thinking it's going to be a festival. It's going to be a lot of people. Okay. They're going to be scattered about. Yeah.

And they're not going to give two shits about us. That's what I'm thinking in my head. Not to be negative, but I'm being realistic. Sure. They get me out of my bunk. I'm sleeping a lot because it was a long night. And also I feel like crap. And they're like, all right, man, you got to play early, you know, because we're like, you know, I don't know when our set time was, but it was in the day.

And, yeah, I walk out there. I don't think I saw the amount of the people until it was time to play. Holy shit. I don't think I even peaked. Oh, no. So I get my stuff together, my shorts, put my shorts on. I get ready for, you know, for stage. and I walk up and I look like, what?

Yeah. Like, and they're there. Yeah, yeah. Because, you know, like, they're right there. They're all the way smashed to the front. So it's not like they're back and scattered and getting food and like, yeah, you know, what's this being? You know, they're there ready for us. And so, yeah, we just went and we did what we do, man.

And it was just like we treated it like just a hardcore show. How else are we going to treat it? And speaking of that. And this is the thing I wanted to talk to you about. About halfway through, you play Crucify. Yeah. A couple guys come out and hold a madball flag. And then they sing along.

The song gets derailed a little bit. Do you recall? Well, the guys were Nicky the Knife and Ingo. Okay. Nicky the Knife was one of our guys, of course. With a name like Nicky the Knife. Wonder who gave that. Yeah, he's actually a guy who grew up with Will Sheppler.

in Pittsburgh, but he moved to New York and he's a homie. He was on the road with us. Great guy. Ingo was our friend from Germany, one of the Berlin crew, and old-timer. And he was on the road with us doing, I don't know what. I can't remember exactly. I don't think he was doing anything. I think he was just hanging out.

But they carried it. Are you talking about when the guy sang? I don't know. Yeah, I couldn't tell if it was. those two guys singing, but someone came up and took Hoyas' mic and started singing, but started too early. Yeah. So there's hitting the chorus over the second half of the verse. Yeah. It derails. Everybody stops. Yeah. At the end of the set, you say, meet me after the fucking show. Oh, my God. And I just want to know. Where? Where are we meeting? Where are we meeting?

Was that on stage or I think that happened when I was down with the mic? Like, they could grab, Like, I think someone's, I feel like someone snagged the mic from somewhere, me or whatever, and, like, sang it all wrong. But, yes, it derailed the song. It derailed the song. And at that time, we were super touchy. I just wanted. We had never done this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And, like, we're being put on this huge, you know. The biggest pedestal. Like, this huge platform to play. And, like, we're nervous. And, you know, you know, yeah. I don't know what I was thinking. No, they didn't. I was like, no.

assholes. It's okay to sing along, but like, get it right. Don't mess up the song. I forgot what I was. And then I was like, yeah, meet me. I don't know what I said. It's stupid kid stuff, dummy. The reason I even bring it up is not even to laugh about. It's funny, though. It is funny. I hear that. It is. And I'm glad you can look at it that way. But it is actually to give an example to the fact that you treated it like a hardcore show. Oh yeah. Yeah, it fucking derailed. That happens. We knew nothing else. You know what I mean? I mean, chords were flying out of speakers. We didn't have long enough cords.

Yeah, there's no wireless. Clearly didn't have wireless. I mean, they probably exist. Yeah, they probably existed. Yeah, they did. But we didn't have them. They were stands. Yeah, a sure prototype.

Yeah, exactly. I think Biohazard had him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he's got a spin. We're the poor guys. We were wild, man.

Like, it was like, you know, the guys coming across with the little teeny banner this big. It's so, everybody's not like. It's immortalized, though. Everybody's got banners the size of this room. Yeah. Yeah. But like, we were like, we were just like, that's what we were, man.

And like, I think wasn't our best show. I didn't feel my best. Wasn't the best smoothish rollout. But people still talk about that show. And like in a fond way, like in a positive way, which is like, okay, cool. Hey, good. Mad Ball of Dynamo is like an iconic. Yeah.

What put a lot of people on to our band. And I see I meet people all the time that are. Like, I know about you guys from Dynamo. You're the only guy who played that stage who's slamming on stage. You're slam dancing. You know what I mean? I didn't even set it off starts and you're fucking, you're going for it. You're the only person, you know?

Yeah, I didn't think about that. I think about it. That's an important thing. And if you didn't know, if you're not from that world and don't know that, I guess you're like, what's this guy doing? What's this guy doing? Should we talk about moshing real quick? A perfect. Perfect segue.

Okay. Moshing. What an insane evolution it had from the early 80s to even now, the rise of like the karate mosh in our core. Do you watch that happen in real time? Yeah, for sure. Who do you attribute to as the innovators of mosh style? Like modern?

Modern and late 80s, 90s. Who were the guys who set who you saw? Minus is one of them? Yeah. Saved. Minus is sobbed. They're in the mix of that. Kevin.

Who do you think? Who was the first guy you ever saw spin kick? That I don't know. We love that. We love to ask people who would have been there, you know? I definitely remember, like, that started coming into play because I remember watching people mash the old, you know,

in the older days when I was younger watching. And, like, you know, I was always intrigued by that. Moshing and stage that. Who is it? It's the best. Who is it? You know what I mean? Like, people watching is like,

What better than to like watch people do that? But that's way more creepy crawl, kind of going to circle. Mutual slamming rather than like this beautiful. And there were guys that were great at that. John Watson, right? Yeah. I've heard you've heard his name. Yeah.

He was a standout guy from like the earlier period. Funny thing is though, like John Watson was dancing the last time we played Brooklyn. That's what it's all about. John Watson gets it in. And he looks great. And he's like, has aged really well. And like, because he's like my brother's generation. So he's like, they're like 10, 12, whatever years older than me.

He's an older cat, you know. And that's like a co-sign that's awesome. Because he doesn't necessarily, you know, have to be into our type, our band. Like, but he is. He, like, supports all, like, the newer bands. Like, you know, to him. Were you active in the pit? I was.

I was sometimes, yeah. Yeah, not like all the time, but like I would get out there for sure. When you're moshing during Madball every time. Well, yeah, there's that. But like a friend's band or like if something, A.F. of course. Or like, you know, Crown of Thorns when they first came out, I danced a lot. killing time if they ever came on

like if it gets me going I'm out there were you at the killing time last show at CB's in 1990 no I was not there that's a great that's a great show isn't it unbelievable that's a great great great show

I had a tape back I wish I was yeah yeah me too yeah I have a tape or I had a tape back in the day that was that set and then a madball set but not the same show right right right but just coincidentally it was yeah that that show just like was awesome yeah it was like everything about it was was you know they sounded great people were like the reaction was great it was awesome it was awesome it's one of the other favorite but yeah there's certain bands

that would get me going okay yeah to answer your question yes yes and then modern day uh wash guys yeah I mean like from like early 90s that I'm thinking like guys that stand out yeah I mean there I mean, then there were guys, okay, so there was this guy. Danny was a guy, I don't remember his last name, there was a guy named Danny, who was that kind of like a bulkier guy who danced really hard. Danny, I'm sorry, I can't remember your last name. And then there was this other cat. It was like an Asian cat, but like darker complexion, so I don't know where he had been from. Not Philip, I don't know if you might have been Filipino, I'm not sure.

We had a lot of, like, Filipino homies, Chinese homies, but like I didn't know him like that. But he would do a lot of kicks. And he wore like a black bandana and like black. He like dressed in black. He had like a style. Like he was like and I can't remember this guy's name. I want to like hopefully like we'll dig him up and find out who he is. But that dude got it in.

Okay. In the 90s. That you would always see him. him dancing and like kicking and doing stuff. And then like your usual suspects that I named from various bands would jump in there and dance. And who else? Who else?

Rap bones cannot go unmentioned actually. Rap bones is originally a Detroit guy who moved to New York and was very, very, very much in the mix. Diving from crazy angles and just like getting it in. So yeah, yeah, there were some guys. I love it now, Colin. I did the spin, I did a lot of that. I kind of liked that move. Like that came in in the 90s.

Like the swirling, the spinning of the arm. Oh, like the windmill. The windmill deal, yeah, I like that one. I did, I utilize that one. I'm in a Bauer video doing that. Okay. If you play, if you, if you pay close attention to, is it Shades of Gray? Shades of Gray.

The Paris direct it? Probably. Shades of gray. It wasn't the onyx one. I was there for the onyx one, but I didn't get in the video. Okay. But I think you see me and like Rick, 25 and like maybe Kevin, like just, there's a few of us dancing. And I'm doing like, you see me kind of doing like my like detached arm thing. I love it. Yeah. The New York hardcore documentary. Yeah.

Such a fascinating look into this time. How do you reflect on its legacy and have you revisited it since that time? I mean, I haven't watched it all the way through. I'll see clips pop up, like, online. And I mean, I have fond memories of it. It was like a really good time. It was like the contrast of like that moment versus when we, like, I said, when we first started playing. Yeah.

like when we played NYU to like 25 people yeah um that was like in a few couple of few years it was a big change i mean you're like the band in that yeah and it documented that like that that that you know uh frank put that together right frank Pavich did that one and and good guy too and uh yeah and no one was like doing documentaries on like you know like but there was definitely a resurgence and someone had the bright idea to document it and it was great it was at like Coney Island High right

so Coney Island High was dope What a show July 29th, 1995 so like three months after Dynamo same year, crazy year and also kind of the definition of a hardcore band is you can go and play Dynamo

and you can go and play Coney Island and you don't change what you do it's the same shit. We only knew we were We're like, we knew what we knew. Yeah. And this is a year after you're saying 50 people are coming to see you. Probably. You know, people have had time to digest, set it off.

Yeah. And here it is. Yeah, we were playing little scrappy places in New York for the first little bit. Like, you know, besides like the AF shows or like bigger shows, when we would try to play on our own, it was pretty light. You know, we played like, yeah, the scrapyard and Avenue B and like, we played like NYU some weird thing. And so, yeah, but 94-ish, 95, all of a sudden the scene wakes up.

Yeah, yeah. And then, like I said, then there's like, crown of thorns comes in, bulldoze comes in, 25 to live, which... Speaking of it. You know, with Bulldoze invented, in my opinion, beat down. 100%. Yeah, yeah. I just got to clear that up because I see, I mean, there's always, like, stuff that you see written

and they're like, I don't know, like, I don't know if that's accurate. like we were talking something about us. I don't know if it's on Apple. I don't know what platform it's on. It is on Apple. It says in your description. Yeah, I was like, you got to change that

because I never considered us a beat down hardcore band. We're a hardcore man. I mean, I know we've been called tough guy hardcore, which is also corny. We're just madball, bro.

Like, just deal with it. You know, like, you know, like, it's really definitive hardcore music. I'm sorry, man. Like, it's not traditional, like, as traditional. It's like, oh, yeah, It's not this, it's not that, it's just us.

It's just what we do. But it's like, stop trying to give us all these, like, additional titles, like, you know, like, we're not beat down. Beatdown is bulldoze. Like, when they did that stuff, everyone was doing different stuff. And I love that. And that should always be the case. And they were the ones that were like, gung, gung, gung, gung, gong. And I was like, that's pretty dope.

Like, okay, go ahead, go, you know, do your thing, Kevin. Go ahead and do that, you know. Yeah, and I dance to plenty of bulldoze shows. So, yeah. There be dumb in, not us, okay. In the documentary, I think you present yourself really, really well. I do. You're like a young guy.

In the interview. In the interview. I think you're very eloquent. I feel like I was shy. You and Isaac, I think, are like the, you're like the young guy. You're like the young guys. He's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, I don't even like hardcore. He's like the cramination.

But you got, you come off really well. Well, thank you, man. And then to see. I was thought I felt awkward. I looked awkward. Like, anytime I look back on that, I'm like, I'm so, you have the great shot. You're 19. You're 19.

And I was. I was awkward. I had never really been like in that kind of, you know, on a documentary. They give you the best shot. You're like, you're on the water. That's a cool shot. It's awesome. Yeah, that's a cool shot.

They show me with my dog, right? Marco. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, one of my old dogs, yeah. But then the show itself, the actual Mad Ball set, which is all out there pro-shot, I think only set it off as in the documentary. However, the clip of you playing New York City is like very popular in our world. Oh, okay. And there's just like little parts in it.

There's a part where stigma is just like flexing during the song, which is incredible. But she did a lot. Which is awesome. During the little bridge part before the breakdown, you fix Matt's mic so he can sing that part. And he's like smiling. It's just like this awesome moment.

And then the pit for what can't, goes so fucking crazy. And it's exactly what, like, young me hoped it looked like. You know what I mean? Also in that set, Roger comes out. Yeah. And plays crucified.

Yes. And in that moment, there are like, like, every New York hardcore head is in there. Caesar District 9. Oh, yeah. Toby was there. Eric and Mike was dancing. Jimmy G. is there.

And Rick to Life. Yes. Rick is. Yeah, he's in the mix. Rick is like such a central part of the New York Hardcore story and in this documentary. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is not the case now. Like you sing on Loyal for the Grave.

Self-inflicted, by that. And that, you know, I would love to know, just. kind of when did Rick's place in New York hardcore start to fall apart? I think it happened earlier than people realize. And I'm not going to, I don't want to give them too much airtime because I have a motto that's like, I don't want to give credibility to those who don't really deserve it or have lost it. Sure. You know, in a dishonorable way.

Yeah. But I will, for the sake of like this conversation, of course. History. Elaborate a little bit. And for the sake of history. Yeah, I think that I don't not it wasn't at that time. I mean, that was like 25 was coming out and everyone was happy and had their bands and things were fine. But maybe later 90s things started to surface.

And I think that was the start of it. Beyond that, like when he went full-blown cuckoo, that's his own, like, I don't know, like when that happened. But, you know, there were always signs of like instability in character. And there were a lot of passes given because of friendships. Sure. Lots that I won't even say on this thing, you know, because I can really dismantle people. But I don't do that. I don't get down like that.

But lots of passes were given. And it's unfortunate that people use friendships to sort of get away with shit. You know and It's not the way I operate But so there was a lot of that There were some years of that Where it was like you're getting away with a lot Because of the company you keep and the scene that you're from

And then ultimately that wore out its welcome That whole thing dissolved and then started to become like hey man You're gonna have to just be accountable for for your actions on your own at this point You know Got it But you Yeah, that happened probably earlier than the internet dictates. Interesting.

You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? But then now you see the unraveling of people and all that. But there was always signs of like weird character things and like pathological behavior. Always. His distro is, you know. Yeah. Yeah.

And then when all the things he would say later on like online that I would get secondhand or third hand, I'd be like, dude. Just outright lies. Like outright made up stories or like taking a story that he may have heard secondhand and like making it his own and then like throwing my name in it or something like it's like huh? You know and then the posturing it's like come on man you're not what was your when you first heard he called you sadball what's your reaction? It's kind of funny it's kind of funny sad ball and I don't take myself that seriously I can laugh at something like that it's fun and it might have even been something he said To me, like, when things were okay. Yeah, right, right. And, like, I was, like, upset about something and, like, jokingly might have even been so...

Tusha. It's one of the funny ones. Yeah, yeah, good. That one's good. A hundred scumbags is good for a hundred demons. And then... Yeah, he just went crazy. Wisdom in a cock ring for wisdom and shame.

Weird. Out of his fucking mind. You know, yeah. You got to laugh at it because otherwise, you know, it can't be taken seriously. And, you know, to the younger folks out there that don't know. I mean, you know, it is kind of messed up when, like, you don't know it's out of context for some people or they don't know anyone, one person from the other or any backgrounds. So if they happen to like that band, you know, I know you're a 25 life guy.

And, I mean, they had some cool stuff, you know. I mean, it was not my favorite band to come out of New York. but I mean they had some cool stuff that they put out I'll give them some credit and they had a lot of guys You're all the song it's great yeah later on That's a whole other story But yeah Ezek pushed me to do that one

I was like I kind of don't want to do it All right well let's go But we did it whatever it doesn't matter But we knew like the original squad We're like all our friends Yeah you know so we were rooting them on And they definitely like started to like Gade a fan base

and like make noise, you know. So, yeah, I'm not, I'm not going to take that away from them. Yeah. But he took away from himself. Yeah, they were, yeah, they were important to the scene in that, in that respect, you know. But unfortunately, I can walk anywhere in the world. I can go into any show anywhere in the world my head up. And if you can't do that, it's going to, it speaks volumes of your character.

100%. You know what I mean? Like, I don't care where I am in the world, you know, and especially, in New York, like, if you can't go into a show in your own scene that you came from, what's the point? It says something. It does. But yeah, but yeah.

How do you feel about the rest of the kind of selection of casts, the various characters in the documentary? Do you feel it was an accurate assessment of New York ArcCard? It was them being them. I mean, like, he was kind of funny and like nervous. He always had this nervous laugh that he does still to this day probably. like he was being himself Puerto Rican Mike was funny

being Puerto Rican Mike. Caesar from District 9 Caesar and Puerto Rican Mike that combo were hilarious you know who else is in there remind me And then isn't there 1 of the Christians? 108 Yeah 108

Yeah Home me from 108 yeah I mean you saw all the different personality It's fascinating Yeah it is fascinating Anything that's authentic is

okay in my book. Agreed. In the Madball set in this incredible clip of stigma grabbing the mic saying that's Freddie Madball that's the new king right there. Sticky. Do you feel

as if a new king has risen since? I mean I don't know about that but I appreciate that he views me that way And I mean

To get the co-signed from him My brother Jimmy those Because those guys have all said something similar like that In one At some point or another And I just am like man Listen man I'm just

I'm just trying to honor Like The opportunity that I was given Yeah I'm just trying to honor that And I will forever do that I will forever do that I will forever be a

defender of the core and the culture, you know, and like protector and like, you know, I don't know. I don't know if I'm a king or whatever you want to, I mean, I'm flattered. I'm flattered by the title, by the, especially being endorsed by someone like Vinny. Who you've known your whole life. Who I've known my whole life, you know, but yeah, I mean, it's flattering. It's awesome. Yeah, there's got to be. some pride for him of like

this kid that we chose when he was a child to build this thing around is sticking with it. I mean that's exactly how you've used it I guess right because he saw me from being a scared little seven year old like

you know going up there super timid to like the documentary where I had started to find a little bit more of a stride a little bit more of a comfort zone. Still wasn't fully there.

I don't think I still was great about communicating, great at communicating with people as much. I was more like all about business. Like, play the song and then I'm in. You know, like just, you know, but like, you find that as you grow in this thing, you get more comfortable in all those areas. But the fact that, yeah, he said that was awesome.

It's got to be something for him to see a little kid growing to a man and like still, you know, take that and do something. So, yeah. I mean, he got Madball tattooed on his head like three years ago, you know? Yeah, it wasn't like it was in 95. No, it was like, that's love. That's love. That's love. Yeah.

That's love. That's love. And he got to see my daughter sing, which I thought was a special moment. Oh, wow. Like a full circle moment for me since we're on that topic. We played punk rock bowling and we finally got to play like the actual punk rock bowling like the main stage and it was cool It was like in the middle of the street like a bunch of people there watching so it was a good show And I brought my daughter out my family was with me there and I brought her out to sing it's my life

How old is she? She was nine at the time perfect that's your song or eight or nine Wow that's your song that they gave you but then he was there Whoa. So that's what made it extra special because AF we're going to play either they played a day before or we're going to play the next day or something. A.F. We're in town. And Vinnie and Gallo were at the show. And yeah, there's like videos of it, but like pictures of it, but you can see stigma in the back with a big smile on his face. And like imagine seeing from his perspective, his viewpoint, I was seven. Yeah. You know. The kid's kid. The kid's kid.

Wow. So yeah, that's pretty cool. That's awesome. It's pretty cool. How'd she do? She did great. All right. Yeah, if you look up the videos, man.

She did great. She bounced around up there. She did good. She definitely likes music. I'll tell you another funny little. Can I interject? Can I insert one thing about my daughter about this? So she's got a very eclectic taste in music like myself.

And I have a daughter and a son. My son's 14. And he's, they're both, you know, they're fantastic and their mother, of course. I'm big on family. I'm all about, that's, I'm all about my family. But my daughter has similar music taste to me being like she looks 90s hip hop and like, like, oh, this like very similar. Like, you know, she'll know like, like a Fleetwood Mac song or something. Like, she'll know, like, it's like random.

Like she's got like a really, like, she retains lyrics. Cool. And then loves. Victim of Pain. How did you know? I felt it. So I think she might have heard it. We showed them with little clips of the documentary, my brother's documentary.

And like, it's the intro. And immediately, like, resonated with her in the song. Whoa. And so she plays soccer. So before we go to a soccer game, she always request victim and pain. Get pumped up. To go to play the soccer game. And I don't think I've told my brother this.

I don't think I've told Vinny this. So they might even hear it on here first time or whatever, but she requests victim and pain. And I'm like, how does this happen? I didn't push it on her. I didn't say you have to listen to this record from start to finish. Nothing like that at all. This was like her mind.

She heard the song and it did something for her and then like specifically request that song when she's about to go play a game. to get her like... You know, in X-Men, when mutants have this moment in their lives where they discover their superpowers? It's basically that. Hearing victim and painting that documentary was like her blood fully formed and there she was.

She could pick any song at this point. Unbelievable. She's a 10-year-old. Now she's 10-year-old little girl, I mean, of all songs, victim and pain. That's crazy. That's awesome. Without your, like, distinct guidance?

No. Yeah. It was in her blood. It's wild. It's wild. Unlocked. When does stigma leave Madball to become, and I quote you, a famous tattooist? A famous tattooist, yeah.

He's still working on that, by the way. But 97, 67, 67. So right around, demonstrate myself. Yeah. I want to say he was with us on a couple of demonstrations. my style tours in Europe. Okay. So, let's just say 97.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was sad to see him, like, depart from, like, the tour. But, man, he stuck around, you know? Yeah. He really fucking did it.

Yeah, he stuck around, man. It's like he saw us off. Yeah. Right. You know, he was like, he came with us. He like, we got going, we got going. And then he was like, okay, guys. You got it from here.

And then soon after that, A.F. came back. So there was a minute where he wasn't playing music. Oh, yeah. He was with us. I mean, he was playing with Madball, but he wasn't playing A.F. Oh, okay. Well, A.F. So, demonstrate my style, and A.F. Coming back, kind of

happened simultaneously. We'll get there in a second. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I did. Demonstrate my style. You did it again. Second LP. Back on Roadrunner, back with Jamie Locke. Tell me thoughts and feelings from this time. What comes to mind with this record?

Definitely feeling like we've grasped, like we kind of have our own sound going by this point. I mean, I think that started with dropping many suckers, very early stages, but then grew more, would set it off. And then by demonstrating my style, like this, like that kind of, hence the name, but, like, It has many metaphors, but like, yeah, we kind of like, we're, this, this, our style is this. This is our version of hardcore. Sure. It's taking from the old school, you know, taking from all these, you know, like, like, well, my cadence, you know, like the whole, the whole thing.

You know, like every, Maddie's writing style, Hoyer's writing style, all that in a pot makes Madball. Yeah. Like, I think that that it was more defined and refined by demonstration of my style, I would say. And there's probably more new songs. I mean, yeah. Because set it off as like half old babos. Is this you lyrically across the board here? Yeah, for sure.

So that's really the first real time we're start to finish. Set it off, I would say. Minus. Minus like one song or song and a half. but like yeah so yeah set it off I started my own lyrics

but demonstrate myself but like the whole thing yeah I would say yeah I think I'm pretty sure the intro my lyrics yeah come on so cool

awesome you guys really understand it was different it was different you understand the importance of the title track of like okay this one's gonna represent

the album yeah let's go let's go crazy on this one yeah I think any other you're 21 around this time something like that 2021 96 I'm 21 yeah yeah I think any other 21 year old saying hardcore is my life I'll carry the name would feel disingenuous but here it is objectively

true yeah exactly that's like those are like could be cringe worthy lyrics but it's completely honest yeah completely honest yeah so how how as and it rhymed with whatever I needed to rhyme with right there you go that's half that's half that's about Yeah, yeah, yeah. How is hardcore changed by 96? And how is like the inner operations of Madball changed by this time? Not drastically from 95? I will say yes.

Drastically in Europe. Dhrastically in Europe. It caught on? It caught on in Europe. So much so that for demonstrating my style, we actually went out to do promo in Europe without playing a solitary show. It's the dream. Like radio and press and stuff?

All that. I had never done that. And we were like, what? You want to fly us out to Europe to talk? To interviews? Yeah. Like, really? So we did that for that record.

I guess set it off, broke some ground, dynamo, these things start happening. So they take, so Roadrunner takes us a little bit more seriously as a band. And so they put a little bit of oomph into us. for demonstration of my style. Yeah, okay. And I'm grateful for it. I mean, it helped us cement something there that we still have today there. You know, we did like crazy promo, played crazy festivals, like the weirdest bands,

the most eclectic styles of band. It was like Los Lobos, Mad Ball, and Corn. Like, there's one show. And then like some other thing. like a rap band like a it was like uh spoke riders they were like this Dutch rap band and like us and then like Lords of Brooklyn like it's like the most Holland had like the illest lineups of bands like and is that working it was so working it was like they were ahead of their time like whoever was putting together those Dutch festivals Holland I mean Dynamo was a Dutch

They had, they were on to something. They were mixing, crossing genres and mixing stuff, but somehow they were making it work. It's still the best place over there, in my opinion. One of, for sure. Pride, times are changing. Music video from this record. Big chair.

Huge chair. And New York Marquore's big chair budget. Vinny said it, so I had to have a throne. I see. It's like a classic NYHC song, start to finish. It's still your live closer, you know? It, you know. We alternate it now, but yeah, pride is still one of the big ones.

It's got that whole intro, big sing-along kind of song. You know what I mean? Was this chosen with Europe in mind? Or was it just a random thing? Because they love to sing along over there. So funny thing about Pride is, it was a song that didn't come together until the very end. And Maddie was instrumental in that. I think this was heavily Maddie's song, my lyrics.

It was like a hodgepodge of stuff. And somehow this is going to, we were like, this is going to be a cool song. But it wasn't put together in the right order. And then we somehow finagled that. Maddie did. Mainly I got to give him his props on that. And then we listened back. We're like, okay, now it's what it's supposed to be.

And, yeah, I don't know why. We chose that, I think, again, because it had, like, a catchier chorus maybe. It's an anthem. It feels like an... Yes, correct. It had an anthemic vibe to it. And I love the fact that, like, it kept, like... I don't know, New York Harkor has always been a little bit influenced by, like, OI. Yeah, definitely.

Whether people want to admit it or not. Even going back to our stuff with like when we did the blame, that's like whoever's song that is originally. But like, you know, we kind of like became our song and like we loved doing that song. So it was like we always had that element in our music, Madball did. You know, AF has it in a different way. We kind of, it manifests itself in different ways with our bands, but like, yeah, there's always that element. And I feel like pride has that kind of thing.

If you close the high hat, sang a little more melodically, that's a Coxbar song. You know, like, straight up. Like, it's all, the DNA is all there. That's a compliment, you know what I mean? So it's like, yeah, it's like, we weren't, like, thinking like that. Like, we want this to sell like a business or a Coxbar or whatever.

Sure. Cockney Rejects, whatever. But like, I think it's there. I think it's just there. It's all there. And we always enjoyed doing those kind of songs for sure. Do you know the amount of band names and record labels you've given via lyrics? Like you've given, there's probably a band name for every musical song.

I know there's a band name set it off. Yeah, there is. Because my buddy Maddie manages them. And I don't know if it's directly related to. to Madball, but you got to wonder. It ain't the movie. You got to wonder. Yes. This movie's killing me. I'm Googling, set it off shirts. Queen Latifah, and I'm getting this fucking movie. Who's it like Queen Latifah, Jada? I know, I'm sick of it. Yeah. Yeah. I won't watch it. Forget the movie. For real, man. Streets of Hate Records.

There's a record label. Oh yeah, it's a great one too. Oh yeah, yeah, okay. There's a many Madball songs are something else now. So you're doing a great service. Oh, man. to all. Respect. Respect to all of you who are inspired by that. So would you say 96 is when Madball in Europe really becomes kind of what it is today? Or was, you know, as we know. Definitely a big, a big, it was a big push.

And we like, serious, planted a very serious flag there. Like, and did some good tours and some more festivals. because we weren't familiar with the whole festival scene, and we started to do more festivals. And all that is is longevity. You know what I mean? That's guarantee your band being able to go. Yep.

And just go and go. So it's so important and difficult. It's instrumental, man. I can't, I can't. I mean, we're now finally starting to get on festivals in the States. I've been trying to do it for years because I just saw how well it worked in Europe. And it's not even speaking

from like a business mind, but it definitely works from a business standpoint. But just from like you said, a longevity standpoint, having the opportunity to play those festivals just extend your life

because otherwise you're just playing to the same crowds over and over. But now your crowd broadens and there's going to be the people that don't care for hardcore, but then there's always going to be a few that are like, hey, I dig that stuff.

Whatever that is, I want to check it out more. It opens up a door for other people. And like America's really kind of, like that proof of concept in Europe, the Hellfists and all that, that's like kind of just now. Just now. Like louder than life is every band. And it's really, you just got to do that. And assemble everyone and everything grows.

Yeah, absolutely. I've been talking about Tim Boar is my booking agent here in America and has been for like 20 plus years. And I was always like, are there more festivals that we can get on out here? Because I feel like that would kind of spark something for us here because it just always, it just always works so well in Europe.

And mind you, in Europe, we're doing, one day we'll be doing some massive festival and it'll go well and we'll have like a cool reaction and like it'll be cool. And the next day we're playing a little club. So it's not like it's, You know, like it hasn't like shot us into this like, you know, category of like whatever. But it helps.

It helps keep the clubs more full. And it helps us expose our culture to like different people. Absolutely. Year after year after year. It doesn't it. It was not only in dynamo. It was like still today like we play a festival and it's like there's somebody watching Matt Ball or a hardcore band for the first time.

And throughout all the. And throughout all the ebbs and flows of hardcore growing and leveling out, how do you feel about where it is now? I feel it's great. I feel it's great, man. I feel, you know, I was asked that recently, and I think it's in a really good place. You know, it's tougher for what's the word they use for us,

legacy bands or whatever. I don't know, man, I'm just a band. Like, we just do what we do, you know what I mean? But, like, yes, I get it. it's tougher for legacy bands in the States. Yeah, yeah. Not in Europe. But it's fine.

At the same time, like, so what? Like, deal with it. Yeah. Just get in their face. Yeah. You know, I got offered, can I even say it? I got offered a tour recently that I'm going to do that I'm not going to say because I don't know if I can say it.

I don't know when this will drop, but you know it's a band that's new and young and hot right now and rightfully so and they asked us to do a tour or a section a segment of a tour and uh i had no ego about it i'm like yeah you know made support that's also i don't have the pressure of closing that's the terror method of just like yeah we'll fucking play with you and kudos to terror man they were like they were with that they were with that too like we're the same like in that regard like we don't have any ego that's the same like we don't have any goes like that. Like we'll, we'll, like, yeah, we'll open up for you. Yeah, problem. And maybe it gets flipped on another, you know, like, I brought a bunch of bands out out to Europe to do my

rebellion thing, you know, and like, that's right. Hey, we, we didn't even, we are you all your rebellion. We, the day, we, you know, there was the day we were flying out. Same. The travel band happened for COVID. Yes. Wow. I had to make an executive decision. Yeah, you made the call. That's right. About the tour. Vitalo showed us the text. If the tour is going to happen or not. Yeah, he made the call, which is crazy, a lot of pressure. A lot of pressure. But it was Us, Madball, it was Madball knocked loose. Yeah, check out this lineup.

Us, knock loose, harm's way. And dagger threat, a German name. Ah, yes, I know that air for it. And, yeah. Which would have been a killer. Yeah. I literally, at the end of that night, I, like, emailed this place and was like, hey, I need a job. Wow.

And that was how I started the IT shit. But anyway, that's so I forgot all about all of that. Well, yeah, the whole world went upside down. at that point but that was a tough one because I had worked hard to get together that lineup that was going to that lineup was going to and knock loose hadn't quite yet yeah got now it's yeah now I'm never now I'm like yo when you're going to bring me on tour yeah let's go straight up but like it would have been cool it would have been really cool and sadly it didn't happen but you know then by the time we got out of all that yeah yeah it's like I'm not going to ask them to

I'm gonna try to do that tour again like that's a wrap back to 1996 here we go in the middle of a madball set after you spend time talking about what I do now what I do now this is good this is good you're gonna love it after talking about remembering

the roots of the genre which we're all about like that's what this is all about at the end of the day we love to know stuff agnostic front reunites in the middle of your set that at wetlands yes how was that in the works far in advance or was that a spur of the moment thing

that was spontaneous Really? Yeah. Holy shit. Completely spontaneous. I looked around and I saw my brother, Rob Cabula. Maybe Ray Bs jumped on the drums.

Or was Will there? No, Will. Because Will was playing with us. Because Ray drummed for AF at some point, didn't he? Like early on. Ray drummed for AF very early on. And I'm going to insert a little lore for you. Please.

Ray played a madball set once. no shit yes wow at the continental in new york we had a show something happened i don't know why it came to be this way but ray bees played drums it was me it was

hoyovini ray myself so hoyas already in so this is like 93 or yeah wow that's a lineup it was rest of peace ray but it was horrific was horrific but that's not where I but classic

yeah yeah yeah nonetheless nonetheless classic wow like I wouldn't have it any other way like I love that that happened I love that happened and we basically did all the you know ball of destruction

yeah of course what is Ray only knows like United Blood stuff yeah so that was like a one of those random weird impromptu mad ball sets that like yeah that's crazy but back to your thing yeah yeah i feel like ray played us i don't know i feel like he was part of it but oh no i'm talking about ray maybe jimmy jimmy coletti might have been there that's what it was something like that but like part of the old lineup was there and i invited them

up to play christop right yeah and victim and pain yeah that well they just kept going with it i was like well he might as well just play a show at this point but like uh so yeah so yeah I was like, hey, AF's here, so they're going to do, and then, yeah, it was, like, very impromptu. It was not, like, we didn't talk about it, like, leading up to it, really. Like, it was like, yeah. That's awesome. That's crazy. You know, put a bug, you know, in my brothers, you know, like, they start, you know, maybe there is still something here.

But, mind you, the scene is now vibrant again or getting there, like, growing again. And there's all these younger people now, younger, like my generation. And they booked a two-night reunion in the same venue, like the same year. Exactly. So clearly that put the bug in. So it's reciprocated, you know, I return the favor. They put me on, I put them on. I feel like it's one of the only genres in the world where that can happen to.

100%. Yeah. And now look at them. They're still, we're all, I mean, we're all still doing what we do, you know. But like, yeah. Part of this interruption, we hate to keep you even more than a second from this unbelievable part two with Freddie Madball, but we got to tell you about three very important things really quickly, all of which this episode would not have been possible without.

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Get 15% off and enjoy this episode. It's time for LP3. Okay. Look my way. Okay. This is your last record with Roadrunner. is do you approach this the same going into it thematically, musically, lyrically? We approach a different from a studio standpoint.

We didn't do Jamie. We did Dean, Dean Bartolonas, which was Maddie's close friend, our friend. He was a friend to all of us, but Maddie was especially close with him. And they had worked, they did a lot of studio stuff together. and he was branching out trying to like establish himself doing his own studio

and doing whatever so we gave kind of through him that record and again it was in Mass oh yeah like I said we never recorded New York maybe it's like a bad thing if we recorded New York

maybe it's like a bad omen so we went to Mass Boston area well wouldn't Ball of Destruction was Don't oh my God

yeah what am I talking about. LPs. LPs. Yeah, yeah, I got you. I got you. That makes it. Duh. Besides the Don Fiery stuff.

None of the major LPs. Okay, LPs. And I'm glad you clarified that because there people are like, what? Where was Don Furies? Boston? No, you're right.

So the first two EPs were New York. Sure, LPs, we'll say. The long, yeah, the albums, the full albums. None of the full-length albums have ever, none of them have been recorded in New York. Jersey, yes.

Not New York. So, what was I saying? So, yeah, we gave Dean a shot on this one and on the strength of Maddie. And, I mean, it was cool. We were down for that because we needed to change it up a little bit. We needed to, like, you know, three records or a couple records with Jamie. We need to, like, get a different flavor going. And so Maddie was heavily involved in that one production, like, producing wise.

And, like, yeah, I mean, it was. a darker record for us vibe-wise. And I got more involved. There were some songs that I guess you could say some of the riffs were mine. Really? Are you saying there going, da-na-na-na-na-na-no-now?

Or are you playing guitar? No, I wasn't playing guitar. I can hack a guitar now, but for some reason, I was around all these great musicians and I never, like, picked up an instrument up an instrument and try to like learn it just for writing purposes or whatever you know like I it's shame on me for that um I have in the last little bit I've started to you know do that a little bit but um it was no it was like me I stayed with Maddie it was like it was like we we all stayed

with Maddie because he was living there at the time going to school in Boston um so we all stayed with him and then we would go to Deans and record. And I can't remember how much of the album we had written beforehand. Oh, interesting. But I feel like it was like half and half maybe. Like we had some stuff written, but then we'd be writing at Maddie's. But yeah, there were some songs where I can remember like humming a riff to Maddie and then he'd play it. And then there was, so there was like, that was probably the first record where I could say that I, like,

came up with a riff in a roundabout way. Yeah, of course. But yeah, same usual process. These guys with the riffs. And then the difference was Johnny LaFato was on drums at this point. So he brought his own kind of caveman style to the mix. Yeah, the more like half-time mosh parts is cut off. Yeah.

What a track. Yeah, musically was... Hard. Musically was different. Yeah. a little, it was a little different. And you're going, shuka, kukkukkakakakakak.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is, like, that's very of the time, but you do it in a very madball way. Right, right. Very good. Yeah, it was, no, man, we were into it. I mean, we didn't, I don't think it got the push that, like, other records got.

And is that, is that roadrunners fault? Is that on you guys? What do you attribute that to? runner's starting to go like more mainstream by this point I think they got nickelback by 97 I don't maybe 98 yeah it's 98 when it's slip knots not even there yeah I think that's like about to happen 99 right so maybe they got plans that they're starting yeah it's weird it's like it didn't get the push to demonstrate my style guide it was only like a couple of years later or whatever um but yeah um I mean we toured for it we did our our part you know we did we did we did a

some really cool tours off that album in the States. We did like a kind of infamous tour with Earth Crisis. It was like Us, Earth Crisis, Hate Breed, Scarhead. And then the second half, instead of Hate Breed, it was Blood for Blood. That'll do it. How was that tour? Very cool. I mean, I don't know what record Earth Crisis would have been on,

but I think it was one that was like pretty big for that. That would have been Gomorra probably? Yeah, I think it's more season ends by then. Maybe. So we were doing like a co-headline thing. Wow. Flip-flopping. Yeah.

Yeah, they were popping at the time. And then we were on Look My Way. I mean, it was doing good enough. We were like we were still going, doing our stuff. And, yeah, Hey, Preet was like opening up for us, all of us. Which is funny to think about now. I remember watching them a bunch of that tour, actually, and thinking, Span's got something.

Sure enough. And that would have been like right when satisfaction came out. That was that record. They were playing that record, that satisfaction record. And I thought, damn, this band's hard. And I kind of knew Jamie because he had, I think, booked a couple shows for us in Connecticut. So, like, I mean, we weren't, like, tight, but, like, I knew them. But I was like, damn, Jamie's band's pretty damn good.

Yeah, and then Blood for Blonde in the second half. Legend. Legendary. But that tour was, like, super long. and like crazy rowdy rowdy yeah I can see

and like just it's a miracle that the tour like that we made it out in life but yeah that was like one of the highlights of 98 of that looked my way

or time and in Europe we had some good some good stuff happened but didn't get the shine that didn't rest of my stuff and you were

I mean this was your last record with Roadrunner was that writing on the wall or was that something you said you signed for a million records you did three sort of for us

it was was and I'll give credit to Monty Connors and like the people that started to like climb up the ladder at Road Road at the time they were guys that we knew and I basically asked him we asked him if we could leave and try other stuff yeah because I think we we might have been locked in for one more album or something like that and or an option or I don't know but we talked to Monty and they had respect for us so they were like yeah and he knew like maybe like you said maybe like nickel but i don't know something was coming in the in the in you know like okay we can save that not hardcore something that's like more you know even death

metal probably yeah whatever you know and and so monte is at nuclear blast now yeah yeah did he are you on currently we're on nuclear blast yeah yeah full circle look at that yep yep go figure right But yeah, no, he is, yeah, he's, he's, he's there. But, yeah, he was like, he was like, yo, man, I get it. I'm like, he's just, we feel like we're just not, you know, getting that priority anymore, that priority anymore. And I mean, I get it, I guess at that time, hardcore had like a ceiling, I guess. I mean, you know, so like, so yeah.

So that was, that's when we went over to Epitaph. On Look My Way, the logo changed for the first time to the 3D one. You know, technology's booming. I love this attention to detail that you guys... Oh, it's sarcastic. Like, even when you were just mentioning people's faces and the Coney Island show, like, I love that. That's like, that's like good...

You guys are good at what you do. Thanks, man. So are you. It's the details, man. It's the details. It's the details. It is. Why did you change this video?

So and so's face during this song. Why do they feel that way? Yeah. Right. Right. What made you want to change the iconic logo? You know, I couldn't tell you, man. of being fully, fully honest with you.

Like, I don't know. I think it was just part of the whole vibe of like changing studios, altering the sound a little bit. The writing, I think the whole theme just changed a little bit. And I think we were just trying to like, you know, we knew who we were,

but also like freshen things up. Yeah, of course. You know, what you have to do as a band. Yeah. You know, so, yeah, it was that. That's fair. Yeah. So the live version of Hold It Down that you do today with the band intro,

when did you realize you could just ring out forever? Over and over, forever while you intro the band. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, do you recall doing that the first time being like, keep ringing out? Yeah. I'm going to just, I'm going to talk a while. I don't recall the first time, but there's... Yeah, yeah.

You mean, look my way. Yeah. You said hold it done. Oh, did I? And I was so confused. I know what he meant. Yeah. The title track of Look My Way.

Yeah. When did you realize you could ring out forever? Yeah. Yeah. I was reading the worst hold of that. Yeah, that happened like live. A lot of things have happened. The get out, the get out thing live.

Yeah. It goes get out. And then you do the long stop in the middle. Yeah. Well, that's, yeah. And then we do the smell of the bacon thing. That came to life live. Yeah.

Numerous other, numerous other shenanigans. There are liveisms. We played right before you at Copen Hell last year. The last time I think we saw each other. Or two years ago now. And we were only able to stay for a couple songs. Okay.

And then we literally had to go to whatever the next show is. But watching you interact do those kinds of things with the crowd. It's funny to hear you say that you were once kind of awkward, all about business. Let's just play and go. Very. To how you are now, has this started to catch on by this time, if I look my way? A little more.

Yeah. A little more. I mean, like with every year, it's like repetition, you know, like with every year that you're a band or like with every show, you're a little more confident, a little more open, you know. I feel like I was super awkward and super shy. Like, you know, I just wanted to go out there and play. Like, I was like, I don't know. I'm not going to like give some kind of.

of deep speech about whatever. Like, I'm like, I'm just, you know, but like as you keep growing in this thing, you realize that, yes, you, they're there to hear the songs and all that, but they also want to hear from you and, like, they do want to, you know, chat a little bit. Who is this guy? You know what I mean? They want to chat a little bit. So, like, but that all happened, like, just what years of doing it and like, especially

in the festivals are hard because, like, festivals are weird because you have to get them. you have that separation. You know, at a club, it's easier to get more comfortable when you're right there in the mix and a room full of people. You're like, hey, what's up, buddy? What are you doing? You know, like, you can play off of the crowd

a little bit better. Yeah. In that environment, but the festival setting is like very daunting, very like, you're all the way over there and I got to figure out a way, not only for my music and the energy to reach you, but also like whatever I'm going to say has to like get a reaction

it's like man this is crazy but now we've gotten like more comfortable you got it locked in. Do you prefer to play with or without a barricade? Oh without. Yeah, yeah that's just not even a question. I hate barricades. Yeah, as do we all.

I hate barricades. Most dangerous thing at a show. It's stupid. Amen. I mean they got the platforms that they do nowadays which is like I guess a happy medium of like there'll be festivals

that like put out the platform which is it's better than a barricade. Absolutely. Actually, don't mind it. The mini stage. Yeah, I like the mini stage. Yeah, I like those things. You know, I like, go that route.

Like, skip the barricades are weird. That's for like, yeah, I don't know. Rock. I don't know. It's dangerous. Yeah, but I try to go out there and still engage. Get up on it. Yeah, engage with people, man.

What can you do, you know? So now Epitaph comes along, and it's time for the next step, and yet another one of the greatest hardcore records ever made. I have said on this show, I've said multiple times that can't stop won't stop, I think is a perfect modern hardcore song. Start to finish, lyrics, the actual riffs, big chorus, I can't believe it. It's fast. It's fast, but then it has to... Yeah.

It's awesome. It's as good as it gets. It's as good as it gets. Thank you, man. And then it goes straight into the title track, which has to... It hits so hard. Straight into fall this time, which like, let's say aliens crash land on Earth. Okay, go.

And they say, what is hardcore? You could go, can't stop, won't stop, hold it down, fall this time, and say, aliens, here's this, take it away, go wild. Enjoy it. They'll come back and they'll understand. You guys are awesome. Thank you. Very, very kind. You make it easy.

How does epitaph? It's obviously not solely responsible for that. all my guys. Of course. The Royal You make it easy. How does Epitaph enter the picture here? I forgot how we linked up with Brett, but I think there was some interest from out west,

from Brett and his camp. And we were on the fence about it because we're like an East Coast band, New York, blah, blah, blah. Interesting. And we were like, is that the right place for us? Is that the right home? So you looked at Epitaph, Epitaph as just this like California punk thing.

Yeah, totally. Interesting. Totally. I don't think epitaph back then was the epitaph that it is now even, you know? Because like, I mean, not like, you know, like, so it was like, I don't know, it seemed like heavily West Coast and like, not even like our genre per se. Like, you know, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. More punk, yeah. Punk, but not like hardcore or like heavier or whatever. So we were. little apprehensive, but then it was like, again, one of those things where like there's not a million people knocking on our door, you know. But they don't know that. You don't know that.

And there's a couple, I'm sure there were a couple, like, smaller up-and-coming labels that might have been like, yeah, let's, you know, but I forget the exact connection with Brett, but we end up working something out with them and we drop, hold it down. which I'm glad you guys appreciate that record. I think our whole generation does. Yeah, that is often, I find, like, when I was getting into this kind of music at all, it was set it off, hold it down,

and then we'll get to the New York hardcore EP because it had just come out around that time. Right, right. But, yeah, I feel like it's like a, I don't know, not a return to form necessarily, but just like a blueprint for the next generation. Yes. I always felt like any of our stuff from like 2000 down,

if I were to have to pick a record, a personal one that I like and also one to show people an example of our band, it would probably be holding down. It's awesome. Over, set it off and all those, you know, not that, you know, everyone likes what they like and came into this thing at a different time,

so that's also something, you know. It's a definitive Madball record. It sounds like Madball in the best. It's where I felt the most comfortable. It's probably the first time I liked my vocals. Wow. I mean, I think this is like, you sound like you now. This is, 2000 and on, we're getting this performance.

Yeah, I just wasn't worried anymore. And we were kind of living, kind of wildish. So, like, I would just go in there and belt it out, And it was just kind of like happened like, I don't know. It was for me, production-wise, and just like how they captured my vocals, just not to make it about me, but like, you know what I'm saying. Yeah.

Like, in comparison to like set it off and like, well, demonstration of the sound my vocals felt a little too thin. You know, like I can like nitpick about a lot of things with us. But like, song-wise and performance-wise and everything, I felt like that was definitely one of our better output. Agreed? And this was, was this, Matt Henderson produced? Yeah, and wrote.

Oh, and he wrote, he was part of the writing process. Did he track guitar or something? Yep. Okay, okay, but this is the last one. This is the last one. He's not in the band. Right, but he, I got you. He's not in the band, but he's involved.

Did he write? Can't sub one's up? I believe so. Guys, good. Ben's saying. He's sick in the head. Who, yeah, who was part of the writing process? Same, same usual suspects.

Boy and Matt. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. As far as like, yeah, yeah, yep. It was like Maddie, Hoy and myself. The other guys were, it was Darren played drums, which he did a really good job. He played a maximum penalty and a couple other bands, but he did a good job.

He's a hell of a drummer. And Beto, I don't know if he played on the record, though. I feel like he was part of the lineup that came like right after. We dropped it. But I don't know that he played on the record. But yeah, same. Like the writers were like Maddie Hoy and myself. But the record for the first time ever was executive produced by Roger.

Tell me about that. Roger was managing us at the time. So him and Billy Milano. Hey. Yeah. All right. He's, you know, old friend of my brothers and like old hardcore head and New York hardcore head.

And so we, all old friend of ours. And he was, I feel like they, I want to say they had an office at like Big Blue Meaty where the record was recorded. And so yeah, that was kind of the connection where like they had an office there. They put us on the Big Blue Meaty, which I thought was a good. option, a good choice. It was close. Like, we could go over to Jersey. You know, we were all living in the city, but we can come to Jersey and record and go home. It was cool. And I just sonic, everything about it, I liked the whole experience. It was cool. It was comfortable. And they were there. So, like, yeah, we gave him an executive producer credit because, like, that's all it was?

Made it happen. Huh? But not really. So he wasn't part of, like, the writing process for anything? No. Understood. No. It was more. The executive side. Gotcha. Heavy emphasis on the executive. Yeah. So any fond memories of touring throughout this time? Did you get to tour throughout the time?

Yes, we did. We did some stuff in the States. Went to Europe a couple of times in 2000, maybe. Like I said, I was having some legal stuff around there. so then I was out of the picture for a little bit and then yeah I was out of the picture for a little bit and then when I came back into the mix

we had some issues with the guys I think the guys to be fair man you know like it was a lot like for like Beto and Darren like we were kind of pissed at them for a while but if you look at it from their

perspective they were walking into, you know, there was a lot going on. Like, I mean, sure, there was this cool album that we did. But... Maybe the best one, you know, internally as well. But there was like a lot of, like, personal stuff, especially with me. And, like, you know, I was like a powder keg, you know?

Like, I was like, it was like, you know, so it was maybe scary to them. It was maybe intimidating for them to commit to, like, this band. And I think it was also, like, they had jobs and other stuff in their lives, and they weren't so sure that they wanted to, like, tour. And the reason I bring this up is they were kind of instrumental in us, like, going on hiatus because it was kind of like, okay, these guys don't kind of want to tour. and then we were just kind of like well we needed break like maybe we should

just shouldn't even drag this through the mud maybe we should just be done wow and it was not like a wise it wasn't thought through that well but like it was you know a meathead decision but a decision we made

and so then yeah there was some touring for holding down but then like it kind of got shut off did you play a last show We played a last tour in Europe. And it felt like that. Yeah. And actually Mitz played that tour with us.

Okay. So in came Mitz at the end. When it was the end, supposed to be the end. We knew him from Scarhead, whatever. So Mitz jumped in and do that tour. But that wasn't the end. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you've been, you, Maddwell has now existed within three different decades and you're 25 years old, you know, like 80s, 90s, 2000s, you've existed throughout all of that.

Yeah. And now do you, at this point, do you now understand what Roger was feeling in like 93 to 96? Aha. Okay. Absolutely. How interesting. Yeah, good way to frame that. I mean, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, and, yeah, the scene's weird, you know, like, things are weird with us, you know, and a lot of it is, a lot of it is, it is, you know, self-inflicted. Early 2000 scene was weird. It was weird. It was weird. And, you know, Europe still had love for us, like, when we did that final tour, it was a good tour, good turnouts, like, it was still cool.

but yeah everything sort of imploded and like line up you know those guys took off and it's not like we couldn't find other musicians but we just were like yeah screw this fuck it and uh I mean in hindsight we should have just probably said we're gonna take a break instead of being like we're breaking up you know it's kind of silly but ultimately we did uh resurface yeah you know but we had like a year and a half two years of like nomad ball you know and in that time i met my girl who became my wife

been together you know 22 25 years 22 years married so like a lot of good things happened in that time a lot of like very bad things and then very good things happened in that space of time you know one of them is september 11th oh right and i have this photo here oh man that's that's my that's my wife yeah Sure, we'll show everybody too. Yeah. That's a crazy picture. You showed me that. That's Brooklyn.

Like, honestly, a harrowing, beautiful photo. Like, museum-esque in a way. Thanks, man. My sister-in-law took that photo. And, like, to have that thought in that moment of, like, holy shit, the most devastating thing that we've ever seen just happening, I should take a photo of them right now. now is like it's amazing that she had.

Yeah, my wife was crying. And so I was consoling her and holding her. And her sister, you can't, you know, at that time, I love my sister-in-law, Lizzie. I love her. You couldn't take a camera, like, she took photographs of everything, you know. And still she's like that. Like we always count on her, like family things like, like Lizzie will get pictures. She'll get them, you know.

So like she's, and she's great photographer. And she just had a camera in her hand and just went up there and like we were up on the roof of That's like on new I want to say that might have been on Newell in Greenpoint in Brooklyn and It was actually their apartment. It wasn't my place It was my wife and her sister had an apartment and I had spent the night there And woke up to shit. Yeah Twin Towers and so I was the only dude with these two ladies.

So I was also felt the sense of responsibility to be like, okay, what do I do? I can't do anything. But I'm just going to be here. I'm going to hold it down. No pun intended. But you know what I mean? So like, and then, yeah, so my wife was crying and we're watching the smoke and the whole thing.

The ashes are coming into Brooklyn. Like you can see the ashes. She snapped that picture. And what was that day like? Do you recall, like, connecting with, you know, stigma or your brother or anything? I want to say, I tried to figure out, I try to reach out to my brother to make sure he was okay. Yeah, I mean, obviously you communicate with your friends. And then, like, I was, yeah, like you said, like Vinnie and them who are in the city.

There were a couple people that we were close to that were in the city. And, yes, we checked in on them. They're good. Okay, cool. You know, and then you hear about, someone, so-and-so's cousin, he lost the cousin, he lost,

and then it's like, oh, man, it's crazy. I want to say, Hoy's brother, Dave, was down there and, like, right down in the mix of it.

He ended up being okay. Okay. He passed some years ago now, but unrelated to that, but rest of peace, Dave. But he was there. There were a couple people that I knew that were there, like, you know, clouds of smoke, like hitting them and, like, sutt all over them.

And, like, yeah, it was pretty intense. And are they, like, you said it's unrelated, but, like, now they're finding that more people are dying from related effects to the aftermath than died in the actual. I got to thank my wife because there was at one point I said should I go down there and help like yeah like whatever that could mean whatever that means because they were like they were actively looking for like volunteers or whatever and I remember and she were like we talk

about this you know and it's like I was like should I go down there like what can I do like I'm not like a structural engineer or anything, but like, I'm an able-bodied young guy. Yeah. But pretty strong. I can do something. Yeah. You know, and she was like, don't go. She was like, there's a lot of people going there. It's going to be a mess.

Who knows, danger. You know, of course, typical, like, what your lady would tell you. Like, don't just wait, you know. And, like, I knew my friends were good. And so we just kind of waited it out. And thank God for that, man. I'm glad I didn't go down there. I'm sorry to the people that did because there's a lot of, like, bad stuff that happened to people after the fact.

Yep. How does New York change after that? And New York hardcore, really. Great question. We've never asked anyone who was there these questions. How does New York change? It got friendlier for a moment. it was more like, like, it was like a humbling experience for everyone, right?

Like for the world. But especially in New York, so I feel like it gave people that dose of like humility and also humanity. Like, hey man, like this, like this is crazy. Like we, you know, we got attacked or whatever it was. So it's like there was like some camaraderie with the people of New York. And like, you know, people were more inclined to help each other and stuff like that. At least that's what I got out of it, you know, because of this catastrophic event crazy thing that happened.

But as far as the music scene, I don't, man, what was even going on at the time? Oh, my God. The early 2000s was so weird. Yeah, were you checked out? I was kind of checked out. I was kind of checked out. Yeah, I was like getting into all kinds of other goofiness, you know, putting myself in bad environments, but kind of checked out from music. Okay.

Yeah, yeah. But the silver lining is you're with your now wife. Yeah. It sounds like things are turning around because shortly thereafter, 2004, we have the first Madball record. I was into hardcore. that came out. Like I went and bought it. I got on blue.

You know what I mean? And music has changed so much in those four years. Yeah. Like Napster. Yeah. I remember that. Mass hysteria.

So that led us to like the streaming model that we're at today. For sure. In that little gap where you guys were gone. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That, you know, Napster came in.

All this other kind of stuff started to happen with digital stuff. Yeah. Yeah. It definitely changed. And for us, like my mind wasn't on music. But I went to like an H2O show at Ceebies.

CBs was still doing stuff. And I went to an H2O show. And my wife had never seen me perform. And my mother-in-law was like visiting. So she went to C-B's. This was awesome. She could say that to people like, I was at CBGB.

And, My sister-in-law was there. And, like, all these people came. And it was, it was just to go C-H-2-O. It wasn't for me to, it wasn't a madball. Obviously, it was, mad-ball was no more at that moment. But Toby called me up to do guilty by association. And it's like around that time, like, right out.

I forget, like, oh, whatever, whatever time period it was. And I go up and I do guilty by association. and then I go back and sit down and like all the ladies are like what the hell was that and they're like and I'm like whatever like they had never seen me perform they had never you know they didn't and it hasn't been that long hadn't been that long but you know in that short amount of time a lot goes on I'm assuming your mother-in-law didn't come from a punk or hardcore background so she would have no idea God no and we were just she was visiting and I was like Hey, I want to go to my buddy's show.

I wasn't sure if I was going to sing or not or whatever, but I was like, let's go see a show at CB's. That might be cool. And they were like, yeah, let's go. Mom Dukes was like, let's go. I want to see CBGVs. Wow. Yeah, her background is not that at all.

Great people, though. I love these people. I mean, they're my family. But the point of that is when I did that, my wife was like, like, you're pretty good. at that like why don't you do that like you know because not to say too much but I was not doing like the most positive stuff I was doing other things and so I feel she was trying to anything that's not bad of course you know and I did have on and off like this moving job

and I did some other like legit stuff but I was doing not not so good stuff too but so that was just another positive thing And then shortly after that, we decide to do a reunion show and Mad Ball comes back. So that kind of influenced, you know, kind of influenced. Yeah, kind of influenced. Yeah. The same thing as AF in your cell. Right.

And I don't even know if Toby knows this or not, because those convos were more behind the scenes. But it definitely sparked something and where people were like in my ear like, you know, you're only 20-something years old. And hardcore so weird. You know what I mean? It's like you're not. We need Madd Mal. We need Maddball. Hardcore so weird now.

There you go. The song for My Enemy is the first song on the EP, the New York hardcore EP. Did Mitz write that? Might have been Oia. Great song. Might have been a Hoy of Mitz collab. Sure, sure. Great song.

Because there's a lot of that. Like I said, man, like there's a lot of collaborating going on like with Madball. Like it was always, you know, yeah, there's a lot of collaborating going on like with Madball. Like it was always, you know, yeah, there's certain songs where it's like, yeah, that's more Maddie, oh, that's more Hoyer. But there's always like a, you know, it was

always collaborative for the most part. I'm going to ask Mitz about that. Because he did, he doesn't get enough credit and he has written songs that are important that he maybe doesn't get credit. You had some live staples in Legacy, which is like to do that

this far into your career. have like heaven hell, hardcore pride, the song. It's rare that a band can get these songs that they can play forever this late. Was the gap from Hold It Down to Now something that pushed you to go harder on the EP and legacy? I mean possibly, yeah, the fact that we had been

inactive for a while and then like hadn't put out a record for a while. Maybe we felt like we had something to prove. Because Mad Ball is back is the byline now, you know? Yeah, for sure. And when this is happening, when you're kind of getting back into it, you got the bug again. Yeah. Are you checking out, like, does terror come across your radar at that time?

Yeah, yeah, they came across our radar around that time. We were, we were, I feel like we were on a tour doing some shows with hatebreed or something like that, like right around when, like, Legacy came out. Sean Martin's on backups on the record. And yeah, right? Yeah, yeah, he did come through for that. Yeah, that was cool. I mean, that was like a leveled up production, I feel like, you know, going to Zeus and like all that.

And then like, yeah, we were trying to step up in every way, you know, like musically, lyrically, it was trying to like, you know, we, you know, like we've been at this for a little bit now. Like we got to, like, show people. Like, we still have something to say. We still have something to offer. So there was definitely that vibe. Terror came across our path on a show. I feel like we were in Canada or something.

I don't know. And like they got thrown on the bill. We were like doing some hate breach shows and they got thrown on the bill. And I had heard the name, somebody had mentioned to me, there's a new band, there's like a new band out. They got a little buzz right now and I'm like, and they, oh, you gotta check out this band.

They're actually playing this show today. And I checked them out that day. And I was like, okay. And that had to have been very early. I was like, they got something going on here. And were you familiar with Buried Alive or any of their other ones? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Scott's other stuff.

Yeah, I was familiar with the names, you know, but like I wasn't like homies with Scott or anything like that. So it wasn't like that. But like I knew the names. Like I knew the names and things, hey, you know, he was involved in. But I didn't, you know, terrible. was like, yeah, it impressed me for sure. Like I watched their set on that show and I was like, okay, they mean business, you know. Perhaps hardcore lives.

Hardcore might just live. Yeah, exactly. Well, and you're correct to say that because it always feels good when you see a band that that gets it and delivers it because that's not always the case, you know, and this probably rings true throughout all genres, but I love when I see those bands that get it. Yeah, yeah. And I could tell that they get it.

Like, I was like, oh, they get it. Like, their style, their output, like, they get it, you know. You know, because some bands you see, and then, like, I'm not knocking, I don't want to knock anyone's efforts or talents or art ever. But, like, some people, they just say, They, you know, they don't, you know, it doesn't translate. It's a genre where authenticity, as we often say, is the most important thing.

Yeah. And it can stick around long enough, you can see through. Yeah. And I was right about them. They stuck around because I saw them. I've also seen bands that I was impressed by that were a band for about a year. Yeah, of course. You know what I mean?

And I was like, oh, they were cool. Yeah. You know, so it's like, and that's like with anything. That's with anything. But like, you know, they were one that I was like, Oh, that's a good, that's a solid band right there. And then, you know, then I obviously cross-pass with them more. And then we ultimately ended up touring in Europe together and doing stuff.

And I got to know them better. And, like, yeah, I mean, we're, you know, we're very cool with terror guys, of course. What is the response to legacy like at that time? Because, like, my generation, that was the new Madball record. Yeah, right. And it was, it connected. Yeah. Did you feel that thing?

I think it was decent. Yeah. I think it was cool. I think so. I mean, I'm trying to remember tours that we did. We did something with like Walls of Jericho. And then we did like a tour. Like, we did a bunch of, like, random things.

But I feel like it, I feel like it, uh, I feel like we got on people's radar again. Like, I feel like we did. 100%. Yeah. And then the heaven hell video dropped. And like, I feel like we were on our way to be like, hey, we're back. Yeah. I mean, I was 14, 15.

You got on my radar. period, you know what it's worth. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. What was the first European tour post-Madball reunion, like bigger crowds than ever? Other than Dynamo?

I don't know that it was like crazy, overwhelmingly big. Boy, and I would say probably pretty solid. Pretty solid. Europe's just consistent, man. They're just They ride with you, man. They ride with you,

And they ride with you. They ride with you. Yeah. Once you got them. I mean, you know, but that keeps you honest, right? Yeah. Because it's not just hype driven. It's like, you know, you got to show your stuff out there.

And then if you stick with them, they stick with you. And it's reciprocated and it's awesome. You know, where America is a little bit more hype driven, you know. It's like, you know, you could. It's about the new here. Yeah, whatever, you know, Instagram and this and that. It's like very, you know, and that's not, I'm not knocking any bands here either, but it's just, it's just a different, culturally different, you know. Before we move on, I have one more thing I forgot.

September 11th happens on the day that, as the anniversary of rabies passing away. Yeah. Was that something on your minds that day already? I mean, what happened probably like, you know, Trump's, at all, you know? Like, you're not, but yeah, I mean, it is pretty crazy that it's like...

Because that date was like immortalized on shirts and all kinds of things before. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it was more like an afterthought, I think. But yeah, it is kind of... It's kind of weird. Yeah, yeah. Weird.

Darksided. Two years later, infiltrate the system. Yeah. I went to like five shows on this tour. Oh, okay. Cool. I definitely went to some. Nice. Opening track, I remember hearing very vividly the day it went up and just thinking like vintage madball they've done it again

who who's writing this record now usual suspects more mitts now obviously um i mean yeah usual suspects as far as like hoya mitt myself uh riggs was playing drums that's right yeah you know whatever you want to say about the guy very good drummer. Very solid drummer. He did his thing with the drums on that record too. Like he really, I remember there was a couple of things where I was like, maybe let him rock a beat real quick and like, let's get inspired by that, you know? And that was like a thing that we had never really done.

Interesting. You know what I mean? Writing a round drum. Yeah, like kind of like, what do you hear for this? You know what I mean? Like we did, like we experimented a little bit as much as we could. but yeah usual suspects writing and my lyrics

and you know like yeah yep yep yep all that another big music video for the title track on this where there is like a crazy cast of characters in the video there's stigma oh yeah yeah yeah there's Jasta if we'll trade the system this is oh yeah yeah yeah there's a guy named Rico yeah he was

homie Rico yeah was he a bouncer at CB's back in the day Could have been. I believe he's one of the guys in like the underdog set. He's an old New York skin. He's, you know, he's one of our homies, you know, he's one of my guys. He might have, yeah, it could very well be. Or it could have, there were these.

It sure looks like them. There were also these twins that were bouncers there that we used to know, you know, from like, you know, even outside of like C.Bs, but like Frank and James. These two, like, I don't think they were twins, but they were like close brothers. They were brothers, but they were like, you know, close in age, but not twins. Were they like power lifter huge? They looked like two powerlifter shit. Yeah. Yeah.

They looked like two powerlifter guys. And they ended up, like, bouncing at hip-hop clubs that we would go to sometimes and stuff like that. So, like, we would see them in other circles. But like, yeah, they were like, they were security there. But I'm not sure if Rico. Did security for CVs, but could be. Sure.

He might have. Yeah, he might have done it. Jimmy's in the video. It's just, you know, kind of everybody. Yep. It's very cool. Frank from obituary. How cool is that?

It's unbelievable. And I don't know if I've mentioned this. We love to know things. And, you know, that is a... You think? That is a video where it's like, you do have to know who, like, all... Oh, yeah, for sure.

People are. And then the message of infiltrate the system. Like, it's a very cool. Cool concept for fans of the genre. Yeah, yeah, one could say, thank you. I mean One could say hardcore has infiltrated the system now Now more than ever movies TV Taco Bell We're everywhere. Grannies is it is it Taco Bell? Is it a Taco Bell? Is it turnstile related turnstile military gun? There's a few Scowl really? Yeah, scowl. Yeah, where's the hard? Where's the hardcore?

Person in that in that in that corporation? saying, there's somewhere. Yeah, let us all know. Hit Freddy up. No, you're right. You're right. It has. And, I mean, that was sort of where I was going with that.

And the fact that it's happening is pretty cool. Interesting. How do you feel about Turnstile being the first hardcore band to win a Grammy? God bless them. Good for them, man. That's right. Good for them. You know?

We agree. I think, again, they're another band that, like, as they've transcended, like, you know, This was their starting ground. The hardcore was definitely where they came from. But like, they've gone somewhere else. Yeah, sure. And as long as they don't forget where they come from. They never will.

Then it's all good. That's how I look at it. Agreed. And like, yeah, man, go into that world and go snatch you up. I was actually texting with Vitalo the night that they won the Grammy. I was like, I can't believe that hardcore is even not in the vicinity of like a Grammy. Yeah. But like these dudes, like hardcore kids have won a Grammy.

It's like wild. Like I would have never a million years thought that possible. You know what I mean? That's such a specific and exclusive, you know, like it's just a weird world that I didn't associate with our world. Yeah, of course. But good for them, man. Yeah. Good for them.

Amen. You know, we brought them out. We did a set it off 25 year anniversary. anniversary tour. And, you know, we handpicked them. It was turnstile. I think it was like downpressor at the time. All these bands, and we like, you know, I could see that they had something, you know what I mean?

And like, yeah, man, they're, they're, they deserve it. Good for them. I'd like to play a little game if you're open to that. Okay. I'm going to list off some bands. Okay. If you can tell me the first word that comes to mind. First word.

Yeah. That comes to mind. Maybe the first couple, but, you know. Okay. You get it. I just realized why you're doing this, by the way. Okay. Antidote.

Classic. Carnivore. Hard. Crum suckers. Harder. The Ice Men. Cool. Leway.

Dope. The misfits. The misfits. The misfits. fits what could i say for them i'm trying to think of like a one word or no you can make a you can do a phrase um iconic there you go you killed that uh straight ahead scully bold bold influential okay yeah yeah breakdown oh grove hell yeah uh burn fire fire Gorilla Biscuits.

Cool? Judge. Judge, wow. Wow. Straight edge hard. That's right. Underdog. Unique.

Into another. Whoa. Even more so. Life of agony. I like life of agony. I mean, no, I do. There's a video of you singing underground, I think, like just before.

I really dig it. I was really into, when they first dropped, I was like, this is dope. I'm just trying to think of a one worder that describes them. F. Vagney. Brooklyn. There you go.

Killing time. The best. I agreed. Marauder. Pretty hard. Especially with minus. Quick sand. Quick sand.

Quick sand Eclectic That was a great answer Crying with thorns It's like if music was graffiti Whoa That was unbelievable Unbelievable

That was really good Indecision Indecision It's pretty hard Yeah Yeah Pretty damn hard There you go

All out war Heavy Yeah Yeah. Last one's a fun one. Okay. Neglect. Bloody.

I love it. Bloody. I love it. That was fun. That was worth association with Freddie Madball. Oh, right. So, late 2000's Madball, you're still very much doing your thing while hardcore is doing something else.

You know, melodic hardcore is like reigning supreme at this time. Yeah. But that era is about to end. I guess so, yeah. You know? I think Trappender Ice comes. along and things change. What comes in mind with the late 2000s kind of post, post-legacy, post-infiltrate-the-system touring era for Madball? I would say, I mean, just we were just

in motion, man, doing what we do, you know. A lot of euro stuff. But, you know, always, we always mix it up. You know, in the later years, in the later years, we've done like more strategic touring where it's like we don't go out for these crazy long grueling tours we do like more like regional stuff which I think helps you know keep the band sort of like we're in the mix but we're not overplaying or whatever we're not playing ourselves out but it's also beneficial to us family wise You know what I mean? Sure.

You know, for me especially. Hard touring, van touring. Shit sucks. That's a young man's game. It's a young man's game. And I want no part of that. But I will jump in there and get in there if it makes sense. If it makes sense.

If it makes sense. But so yeah, like I'm thinking late 2000s, what are we doing? Like we're, you know, we're just playing, man. We're just doing what we do, man. I saw you a lot. A lot of cool. You were. A lot of cool.

A lot of cool. They're still, you know, we're just. We're active, man. We stay in the fight. You do. Empire, 2010. Another decade has come and gone. Oh, yes.

Yet, Madame all remains. What comes to mind for this era and this record? Well, yeah, I mean, a lot, a lot comes in mind. That was like a weird year. There was a lot of stuff happening in people's personal lives, and there was a lot going on. But, yeah, we still manage to, like, pull that one out. And, I mean, I'm proud of that.

record like any other man you know it's like it just was just it it was you know uh who we were at that time you know where we were where we were at that time you know so um would i rate empire as our best record that we've ever done probably not but i think that the there's still a lot of like good songs on there and like uh you know we were just kind of just trying to like keep things going and we had you know we had some drummer weird weird stuff with some drummers that the certain guy that played on the j who played on the record but then he was soon after he was out after that so some weird lineup stuff so there's a weird time weird time weird time there was weird lineup stuff there was some personal stuff going out with hoia there was but you know like we we we we

we held it together man like and you know mitts and i really worked hard to like like keep that together, you know, because we had all these songs and all these different things and we kind of really, we wanted to make sure that it was going to happen. You know, we wanted to make it happen. And so we did, and we did just that.

And then I was, the upside to that is, did that come out in 2010? That was 2010. So I think my, yeah, my wife was expecting during that record. So that was the, you know beautiful things about that you know my son was born in 2011 but like that was like the year where like you know so i was starting my family so that side of it was great but yeah i mean yeah i i don't

i'm trying to think of highlights of like that year nothing super special but we were like trekking along man and doing our things we did something with eric rutan which was different for us metal guy yeah legend the metal guy cool Cool guy. Yeah. Awesome guy. And that opened up a relationship with me and him, with him and I, because then I ended up producing an agnostic front record at his studio.

So it was like, it was cool, you know? So, yeah, that, that, you know, that was, that was a cool year. A lot of, a lot of cool things happened. Yeah. I mean, I think hardcore got, that was like the start of another. generation for sure you know yeah who came like yeah thinking about who was out at that time like who started no nails trap like i said trapping rice sure uh terror was still terror's still going that was keepers of faith yeah yeah so that that was a good period for them and yeah we started

right around yeah yeah that was when we became touring guys off the backs of yeah yeah yeah the way that mad ball paved i feel like us and terra did some euro stuff around that time period i would bet my life so yeah yeah yeah so yeah so yeah yeah so yeah yeah yeah so yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah Yeah, no, it was a good time. I mean, the record, like I said, it wasn't like our most talked about record or like whatever. Like, it wasn't like our biggest,

the biggest push we've ever gotten. But it was, it was, it was a decent effort. I think it was a decent effort. And it was, yeah, I kept this going. And there's songs on there that I really, you know, I back. I got you. Yeah.

As you should. This has nothing to do with the record, but what do you think is the most underrated New York hardcore band of all time? Rejuvenate. Whoa. Talk to me. Rejuvenate.

Tommy Rat. I mean... That was fast. Yeah. You meant that. You meant that. Yeah, I got it. Well, because I got a shout out Tommy Rat

because Tommy Rat was like a fixture and a New York hardcore scene from the beginning, the very beginning, first day, up until like into the 90s, like maybe even into the 2000s. Like, he was like

this old, character that like Man like if you know you know like Tommy rat was like this classic dude and like Ask Craig about Tommy rat like Craig's like best front man ever But like he was it like he wasn't like doing flips or anything. He just was like he's like he's it's funny man But like yeah, yeah, I'm gonna give that to Tommy rat I'm gonna rejuvenate but but but there's several there's several for sure There's several

underrated sure Tara wouldn't be underrated right I think to a modern audience probably yeah okay big time to me yeah no same not to me yeah no same not to me but if we want to get more serious not that rejoinate's not serious but like

this is a little more serious yeah I don't hear them in a lot of conversations nowadays and yeah Paul's still out playing you know and does random tours and stuff but like just stylistically

and you know just yeah I mean they're they're super important to the New York hardcore movement super important super important and they're like one of my favorites

hardcore lives the appropriately titled eighth LP yeah and uh almost forgot about that Yeah. But you've been involved with hardcore for 30 years now as of this record. Has it been that long? Geez. Yeah, I mean, now it's been 40.

Yeah. Do you see an end in sight for Madball, or is it just till the wheels fall off? I don't know the end. Like, I don't see an end in sight. I don't know if it's till the wheels fall off. I mean, it's just, I don't see an end in the very near future, you know, only because we all feel good. I got a great group of guys. I mean, the album that we just wrote is like, like, some of my favorite stuff that we've ever done.

Awesome. So it's hard and like, and then our trajectory is still like good, you know? Like, you know, we're still doing stuff where, like, I'm like, wow. Like, you know, we're still playing show. Like, we'll go to, like, we were just, like, had, like, one of our more successful Euro tours, like, one of the more, you know, recent tours where we, you know, doing festivals and club shows and, you know, and it was still, like, very vibrant and good. So I guess as long as it's good for them, good for us.

Yeah. I saw you three months ago in L.A. Yeah. And your cardio's off the charts. Oh. Oh, thanks, man. You ain't slow, no. Try, yeah.

What's your regimen like for that? How do you prep? Nothing spectacular. Nothing, like, special. Are you not like a runner or anything? No. Really? No.

I do my running on stage, man. I mean, that is a whole different beast of cardio. It's 45 minutes. And there's no way to really prep for it. It's repetition, man. It's just because I just been doing it as long as I've been doing it. And it's also like I really don't know any other way to do it with Madball.

And that's part of it. It's like if I can't do it on a certain level or to a certain standard, then that would probably factor into me not do it anymore. And that applies to everything. That applies to the music.

Like if the standard's not up there with the songs, live performance, then that's when you have to evaluate or reevaluate what you're doing. But like, we feel

we feel great. Like we feel young. We feel inspired. Like, especially with this last album. I mean, you know, the lineup I have now is like, the best. Like, these guys,

it's that same feeling like back in the days. Like, these are my brothers. It's not like, Babel's always had that family thing where it's like, I'm with my brothers, you know, like not just a dude that plays an instrument well. And, you know, he's just tagging along.

He's just going to, no, I'm with my brothers, you know. So, you know, Mike's, my drummer's been with me 15 years now. It's like, these are the new guys. He's been with me 15 years, you know. Even Mike Granary has been eight years in the band, you know. And then the most recent is Paul, you know, who, who finally, we finally got, we finally have a permanent, like a confirmed replacement for Hoyo, which is like,

It's tough. Things were like a little bit like we had like a team of guys. These are guys that have filled in for him in the past, mind you. Paul Delaney did a Europe tour 20-something years ago when Hoy couldn't come on a tour and he did it. So he's our original filling guy. He's our original go-to guy, ringer guy. But he's also a dear friend for 25 plus 30 years. You know what I mean?

So like these are not just people who are pulling off the street or finding on the internet. like this is still a family operation and those are big shoes to fill yeah big and if anyone knows paul delaney's playing uh you'll know that he's going to be okay doing playing the base because he's one hell of a bass player yeah i've seen he's a hell of a bass player yeah i mean he played with bands like kill your idols and classic you know new york stuff and like uh you know he has don't ban black anvil but like he is a very solid bass player so i'm not worried about in that department but yeah no man it's it's it's it's uh if anything i see good things ahead cool i see positive things i see upwards movement i see i see i see a lot i see a lot more

happening especially with the state of hardcore yeah exactly it's never been better yeah for the cause 2018 yeah as of now the last of Madball record, but we know now no one's coming. Produced by the great Tim Armstrong. How was that experience? It was cool. Tim had wanted, you know, we've been talking about working together for years. And so he had, you know, he offered me his place.

And it's a super, super cool studio, man, like really, really nice place, really comfortable place. and yeah we just talked about it and he was like man next record bring it to my spot and he only has like it's not open to the public to everyone it's like exclusively like if he invites you you know you can use his studio that's cool

and so he invited us and like took care of us obviously you know like financially it was very fair and reasonable and like all that so you know because that is a part of the process Yeah, and yeah, I mean, and we put that, we had a lot of it done before we went to him. So that was written, like, we had a lot of the writing done.

And then we just went there and banged it out. And, like, he was, like, helpful. Like, we bounced, like, you know, like timing stuff off of him, you know, like, like tempos. What do you think? or so, like there was a lot of little things like that where he was really good at. He wasn't super, like, invasive as a producer because I think he respects us too much. And respects the time that we've put into this and that we're at a point where we sort of know, like, what we're doing.

We know our craft, you know, like, so that's not to say, mind you, I wouldn't have, like, I'm very open to, like, any ideas or what. whatever. I mean, you're there. Super open to me. Not like, don't tell me what to do. Just put your name on the thing. No. It wasn't like that, but it's like, but he had a lot of respect for, like, he respects us as a band and whatever. So he like let us kind of do our thing. But then he would chime in a little here and there and, you know, give his opinion or two cents. Or I would ask him, like, what do you think about that? Should I go more this route or that, you know? but yeah i i love that record

i love the sound of it i love the songs yeah you know you know it it was it was a good time yeah yeah shortly after that a year and a half the world shuts down oh boy yeah for another year and a half on april 24th 2021 madball plays tomkin square park which has a long history with hardcore beautiful history yeah really In the first hardcore show post-pandemic. You opened with lockdown, which is hilarious, very self-aware.

What was that experience like? And did you see any of the blowback online from it? Oh, yeah. Yeah, we saw blowback. I mean, the experience was great. It was a great show. It looked awesome. It was fun, man.

It was like, enough of this, like, lock. You know, everyone being locked up nonsense and like, you know, I mean, whatever, everyone went through what they had to go through and everyone has a different, you know, perspective on what went on or whatever. I won't get into all that. But clearly everyone was fed up. And in New York, there had been like a Joe Biden rally like the week before and there had been all these other things that happened out in the open.

no one really shined a light on because it was okay politically or something you know like there was a rally with like 10,000 people for like celebrating you know this and that like you know but like those things were okay but like um people getting together to have fun it's not okay that was the kind of the vibe but sure um after the fact but i mean man it was so positive and like I didn't didn't even like like when my friend joey like mentioned it to me the possibility of us doing a show like hey there's a possibility we can get you know a show happening in the park and it before he can even ask me are you down i was like i'm in and he was like okay that's all i wanted to hear and i was like yes i'm in would you want a headline would you want to whatever when i was like i don't care

i don't care where i go on i was like it doesn't matter i was like i just want to play yeah we just want to play everyone's tired of the nonsense and everything that's going on and new york was about to open the doors anyway like they were about to like like like they did it was like they did they did so it was like yeah we're doing it yeah and so whoever really the first show was going to be was going to get the flag you took the bullet for everybody it just happened to be you and and i don't mind at all it's one of my proudest moments doing madball uh for the statement that we made doing it looking at people's faces and how much fun they were having, I contributed to that, yeah, I'm down, I'm with it.

People can say, oh, germs, this, that, man, you know, you're not going to get around that. That's everywhere. Like I said, the next day they opened up the doors and everybody came outside. Like literally. What's a difference? There's that meme of Squidward watching Patrick and SpongeBob through the window. That was like me on my phone.

Just watching everyone have fun at a mad ball show while I was locked. It was so positive. And that's the thing. It's like to put a negative spin on it was like unfortunate because when you got there, it was like smiles, happiness, sunshine, all positive. You know, like, crowd was great. Far back as I've never seen that many people with Tompkins Square Park. And that was like my park.

That was like I lived on 10th Street, which is right a tat, like the park's right on the corner. Were you at the breakdown show there in 1987 or eight? I don't remember if I was at that breakdown show, but that's a classic. Yeah, that's a classic one. I might have been. I don't know. Did a bunch of punk bands play that, too? Did Nozgy played that one too?

I think so. I might have been there. I think Noggi did play that one. It's awesome, actually. Yeah, I think I might have been there. Yeah, that's a big maybe, but yeah. Tompkins is great for shows. I mean, it's out, you know, it's part of our history, like that area.

I did the Ray B's, one of the Ray B's celebrations, you know, tribute, you know, to... The one that Fireburn played. That was awesome. You know, Todd Youth asked me to do... We were actually supposed to play a show. We were headed to a show in like Pkipsy or something. And then Todd asked me if I would do a song

and I was like, and we like went, did a song, bounced. Oh, shit. Yeah, we played a show, I think, that night. Yeah, but that was fun. Yeah. I mean, there's an energy there, man. Like, the shows at Tompkins are like, there's a vibe.

I'd love to go to one. What I'd love to do? But no one, it was no vibe like that one where, when, you know, we, you know, when open the doors without, you know, permission. Yeah. I got you. So there's a new bad ball record coming. What else can you tell us about?

I could tell you the name. It's called Not Your Kingdom. And I could tell you that I could, I, I predict that you're going to love the cover. It's a very throwback vibe. Okay. Gives a nostalgic feel to it, but it's also current. It's very in line with, like, the lyrical content and the message.

And it's by far the most diverse Madball album, even more so than for the cause. Wow. Which I thought for the cause we did. A lot of melody. Yeah, we did a lot of different stuff. Which we were happy to do because it's like you can't just keep doing the same album over and over. It's like, you know, I mean, yeah, obviously you want to hear our sound. But I like that we were venturing out and doing different stuff on that one.

And this one is, yeah, there's like some songs that are like reminiscent of like Can't Stop, won't Stop. That's awesome. But then there's like some more like Doc Monta stunt vibes Like boyish You know vibes But still madball Still bad ball

Still very madball So it's time It's very Ecclectic in the best way I think I think I hope I mean I'm the You know It's gonna be for the people to judge

But I'm super proud of it And writing with these guys It was very natural Was it like forced Was it like oh well you know It was like, you know, we all were like hungry to, it's been like 2018, like, since we put out an album. It is, eight years, yeah. It's time.

It's like way too long. Do we have a release date or a single drop? May. May. Okay. Yeah, it kept getting pushed back because of this, like, nonsense. Like, the album was done, but then, like, we had to get a remix because we didn't like the first mix. And then artwork got held up.

And then you got to wait for it to go into the, like, nuclear blast, like. Nuclear blast, like. system. Which is always like, why can't you just drop this tomorrow? Yeah. Lionel. That's not how it works. So now it's finally like in the system and it's going to come out in May.

Here we go. So soon. It's going to, you know, I think it's going to, I think people are going to dig it. All right? I hope so. I can't wait to hear it. That's the hope. So let's say Mad Ball's on tour right now and you're a little hungry, as I'm sure you are right now, as we all are.

Yeah, I'm getting there. Five hours later. It's hungry o'clock. It is hungry o'clock. What's your poison? What are you into? Whoa. What's your favorite thing?

We're like, we've like grown a little bit and evolved a little bit. I know you guys are like... We like it all. But we will dive into the dumpster if we need to. Yeah, but we dined fine. Yeah, we did. I think the answer you're looking for is somewhere in the dumpster. But I want to know.

But no. The high-rise Well, back in the days we got into everything. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, just whatever was open. Having a Cuban family

and growing up in South Florida, I'd imagine you have some of the best food in the world down there. A very, my mom is a very good cook. Like, she definitely, like, she would cook for agnostic front. Like, that was like a traditional thing that would happen.

Like, they would come on tour and my mom would make a feast for them. And she only, She's been doing that up until like just like last year. She's getting a little older now. It's a little harder, but whatever. But like she was doing that forever. That was like a thing.

So my mom could cook. So yeah, Cuban food's like, it's just food to me. But as far as like tour food, like when we were younger, we'd get into whatever. You know, you name it, you know, Denny's, Waffle House, whatever, you know, all the, all the usual nonsense. nonsense i mean in europe like late night McDonald's runs like that'll say you're starving yeah that's that's just such life affirming it's kind of amazing yeah but we've gotten more sophisticated these days like over the years and you know we're getting a little older so we have to act our age a

little bit so like yeah we these days i just like look for like quality man like solid like mom and pop good, good, like, good ingredients, preferably organic. If not, it's okay. Good quality, nice food. Doesn't have to be Michelin-starred. If it is, I'm not mad. And talk about infiltrate the system. Like, we've met, like, chefs that are not, like, oh, I work at a Michelin restaurant.

I was like, oh, really? Cool. Yeah. We know some. You know what I mean? It's crazy. Crazy. Infiltrate.

So it's like, crazy. But like, yeah, we eat a little better now. Okay, so let's say you're touring in the U.S. And there's a city on the tour with a restaurant in it that you cannot wait to go to. What is that restaurant? Quebec City, let ketchup.

Whoa. Quebec City. Yeah, and it's a weird name because it's like ketchup. Ketchup. Dude. What kind of leaveable? What kind of food is it? It's like French, like, you know,

so we're in Quebec. a lot of French-inspired stuff, but it's like their own thing. It's like new French Canadian. Like, I don't know, it's like... Modern French. Yeah, modern French, like, you know, with its own twist.

Just really well-sourced fish, meat, whatever it is. And the thing about that place is like, it's a small, tiny little place, so you're lucky if you can get in there and get a seat. We've been lucky the last bunch of times to get in there.

and they're cooking on like an electric crazy wax stove like you know not like a you know high-end like whatever you know what I mean like a you know it's like it's like very simple stuff and they're making the most amazing food it's got to go let's ketchup let's catch up oh yeah you like it yeah love it's good right it's great yeah that's what I'm saying what's wrong No, no, so I'm saying. It's the really, like, his favorite movie. It's the best one. Oh, I love it.

Yeah. I knew you did. Like, watching all those movies with my kids, you know, like, but that one, that's a It's crazy, right? That's the last time you watched Rattatooey 2 days ago. On the way here. I'm going to watch it at home now. You should.

You should. I'm hungry enough where it'll really hit me. It's awesome. But, yeah, no, we, we, we better these days. We, we try to find, you know, find nice places. You're waiting for luck, catch up. And, and. and eat something.

And it might be one meal a day, you know, like we'll do the coffee thing in the morning. Yep. And not Starbucks, sorry Starbucks, but we do like good mom and pop, good quality coffee spot and maybe get a little snack there, but sometimes we only end up eating

one real meal a day. So we figure if it's going to be one meal a day, it might as well be decent. Makes sense? Mike Dijan told me he put Agnostic Front onto good coffee. could be and that they that now rogers like mike might take us to your uh your next your gentrified coffee yeah where are we going here yeah oh i would guarantee that yeah i would i would i would

concur yeah because they don't they don't know about coffee and food like us they don't they don't they don't know they don't they don't they don't but they don't yeah but yes it would take a djean to point them in the right direction in that department gentrified coffee for sure all right we've got one final question for you wow Freddie Madball's top four hardcore records of all time. Victim and Pain, Brightside, in that order. Shear terror, thanks for nothing. Thanks for nothing.

Yeah. Better recording than ugly and proud. I just love the songs. That's like one of my favorite albums that ever come out of New York hardcore. I agree. It's amazing. and maybe negative approach total recall. Yeah.

I can't give it all to New York. No, I got you. You know, I mean, there's, of course, honorary mentions of Aja Quiro and Lee Way and certain, you know. That's it. What's it? Great answer. Yeah, you like those? Yeah.

I like to be ordered the Biggsman-Fame Brightside. I love to hear that you love Brightside. Yeah, that's awesome. Oh, yeah. One of my favorites. Anthony's on a song on a new album. Really? got him to do a feature.

I've been wanting that for years, and I finally was like, just going to ask him. And then he was like, oh, man, be honored. And he killed it. Clash of the Titans. It sounds like Anthony.

Sounds exactly how you would want Anthony to sound on a feature. It's like this, he took him from Brightside and inserted him into our song. That's amazing. I was like, I can't wait to hear it.

Can't wait to hear it. One more question, actually. Oh, talk to him. Do you say New York style before Kent's up on stop? Oh, yeah. It's Hoyer. Yeah.

And it's taken from an interview. Ah. It was snipped out of an interview. Love it. Always wondered. Yeah, I think it was like a Japanese interview. In your style. Oh, yeah, that was a little studio tricks.

But him saying that was from a Japanese thing that we did. Oh, that's so fun. Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. Just took it out and boom, threw it in there. But it worked, isn't it? Yes, it sure did. And, you know, we put all our homies, you know, my boy, L.D.

We put his beats in there as segways. I don't think a lot of people were doing that around that time. That was like our homage to hip hop. But also a way to put on our people. Because it was like our boys' beats. Well, this just could not have been more pleasant, I think. Thank you, man. Thank you.

I had a pleasure with you guys, man. It's awesome. Thank you for your time. Thanks for having me. I'm sorry about the congestion. and everything. We never notice at all. Okay, cool. We're so grateful that you join us. We're so grateful that Madball exists. Oh, thank you, man. And continues to... I'm grateful to you guys for, you know, big in the culture up, man. Keep doing what you do. Please. We will try.

We need it, you know? Any parting words you have right there, send them home happy. Thanks to you guys for having me. Appreciate. Appreciate the invite. Um, uh, something I've been saying for years and I'll say to the new generation. I love the new music that's coming out. I love all these new bands. I love that they're all doing their own thing and there's so much freedom to do your own thing. But don't forget where this comes from. Don't forget the roots of the music and the bands like Agnostic Front who literally

pave the rows that we all walk on. I've been saying that forever. And it's not... You literally have. It's not... It's... I mean, it never gets old. Yeah.

Because we're in a place right now where like the general... It's like a huge flip. Like, we're in a completely new time right now for hardcore. And I'm grateful that I'm still in the mix and we're still in it and a lot of us are still in it. But don't just jump on the hype. embrace the culture is what I'm trying to say really you know I don't you know that that's that's

that's that's the message and I want to put out there to the people perfectly say and show each other respect and be classy and let people have a difference of opinion it's okay to have a difference of opinion you don't have to put everybody into a box you can have a difference of opinion and still have respect for each other there it is cheers guys that was five hours with Freddie Maddball wow and uh unbelievable Real. Thank you all for joining us. We will see you next week. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me. This episode is brought to you by Mad Vintage.