HardLore - Jamey Jasta (Hatebreed)

Episode Date: March 16, 2023

Colin and Bo sit down with Jamey Jasta, frontman of Hatebreed and "Godfather of Spinkick Music" in this 3 hour chronological journey on how Hatebreed went from struggling to open local shows, to major label, grammy nominated headlining band. A fascinating deep dive in to the way Jamey analytically looked at growing as a band well before internet resources were available to him. By the end of this episode, it will be clear that Hatebreed's success was much more by design than coincidence. There is no Hardlore without Hatebreed and without Jasta. Thanks for listening. Get 20% OFF @manscaped + Free Shipping with promo code HARDLORE at MANSCAPED.com! #ad #manscapedpod Join WHATNOT with our special little link to get $15 off your first purchase. Get ready for the first ever Hardlore live auction on March 24th: https://www.whatnot.com/invite/hardlore FOLLOW JAMEY: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/jameyjasta TWITTER | https://twitter.com/jameyjasta FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/hardlorepod/ TWITTER | https://twitter.com/hardlorepod SPOTIFY | https://spoti.fi/3J1GIrp APPLE | https://apple.co/3IKBss2 FOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/colinyovng/ TWITTER | https://www.twitter.com/ColinYovng FOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/bosxe/ TWITTER | https://www.twitter.com/bosxe Check out our merch at https://knotfest.com/store/?view=hard... Find all of our videos at https://knot1.co/3vWXsbx #HARDLORE   HardLore: A Knotfest Series, Fueled by Monster Energy Edited by Steven Grise • Title sequence by Nicholas Marzluf Join the HARDLORE PATREON to watch every single weekly episode early and ad-free, alongside exclusive monthly episodes. Join the HARDLORE DISCORD for community discussions and to participate in our future Q&A episodes. FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER, SPOTIFY, APPLE FOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAM FOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER   For sponsorship opportunities, email us! [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Have you guys had Carl? If you guys, if you survived Carl from Earth Crisis and Scott from terror and because they, no, not like, they're true hardcore caveman. Like, this was hard enough for me. I had to have a tech. We did Carl in person. Okay. And he really warmed us up to us about halfway through. He realized we knew, we knew what we were talking about.

And then he said I was in the, I was in the apocalypse bunker. I don't know. Oh, good, good. Yeah. He's who you want to be when the shit goes down, which might be soon. The Road Warrior vehicle is coming to pick me up. I'm going to see if Bo will fit. I'm right along the way.

You're right there. I'm right off. Now, let me ask you because I hadn't, I didn't have time. I only got to listen like the first 10 minutes of the bands who put out albums that were kind of like considered bad albums, not by you, but you know, like by the fan bases or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Did you bring up Slither? Because I back Slither.

Yeah, we did. That's a prime example of like a record you're not supposed to like. You know, that's like, oh, I listen to everything before this. That's a perfect example of something that we dove into about halfway through the episode, Boe, of a saying. I'm excited to go listen to the rest. Couple tracks. It's a couple tracks. The lore of the expression couple tracks is explained.

Well, because I think if any of those records that you guys talked about, and I'll go and listen to the rest of it, were any of them later life of agony records? Yeah. Ugly and soul searching son. I ride for both. Oh, I was going to say Broken Valley. Broken Valley's got a couple tracks. Well, I think Broken Valley was just, it was a major label return. Yeah. And they just either could have called it something else because they want,

it was Newman from sheer terror that signed them for that or re-signed them or whatever. So to me, and then when they pitched it, the headbanger's ball and I got the advance, I was like, if this was just called another band, this could probably be big for what's big at this time. But because they were already connected,

if you're connected to the scene that's not accepted by the radio, and by the higher-ups at MTV, you got to have that deal to get pushed to the front. And I'm not saying it's necessarily like a 360 deal. But, you know, there's bands that were, even back then, they were in 360 deals that got the hardest push.

Right. Because they stand, those companies stand to make the most money, whether even now, there's a certain amount of money that can allocate and something has to kind of organically pop for them to be like, okay, this is where we're going to, we're going to put all our eggs in this basket.

And the other, some other stuff may suffer, even on the same label. Sad. Yeah. And they can upstream things, right? And that was, I think maybe they thought at that time. And I don't know, you guys should probably try to get Newman on the show or get Joey from life of agony or get Mena on. But I think at that time, it was just the wrong style. Because the headbangers was coming back.

If they had come out with super hard. fucking River Runs Red Style or harder, it would have popped off. It would have been game over. Big time. Because it was so STP meets whatever the radio rockets in time. Yeah. Okay. I didn't realize there's there's another thing that we we preach on here all the time is evolve,

don't change. You know, if it feels like the natural next step, maybe that's where you should go. But the River Runs Red Ugly Jump, even that was kind of a stark change. and like the tone of the vocals. It's it's significantly less hard. They were they were changing with the times

rather than changing with like what the people's expectations were. And that was a serious dollar bin. Like that was back in the dollar bin days. I could tell you many dollar bin pickups. And I still got it. I still I still picked it up. But you know, there was a lot of those records that you would go up to the counter

and the kid behind the counter would be like, don't do it, bro. And it was, wow. You know, it was that type of thing. And especially in the cassette days, because the cassettes,

the dollar bin in the cassette world was a big deal where you would think that you, it was always too good to be true. You would think you were about to score. Like, oh, man, I'm going to get this Celtic Frost record for a dollar. And it was Cold Lake.

Yeah. Or you would get like the promo. that looked a little different, but it was, you know how they used to sell the promos? Of course. They would get given for free. There was a lot of those records,

but that one in particular, the one after River Runs Red, that was, there was a couple tracks, but I like Soul Searching Sun. I thought that was a better record. I mean, Wedes is an incredible song. But let's give the proper intro that Jamie deserves here.

Yeah, we can go back. Don't let's us forget. I got to tell you about when no, morning came up to MTV. Absolutely. Because I heard that part. I listened to that part where you guys were talking about that record. We're going to get to that part of your life.

I'm going to go, we're going to do a chronological journey here. I'm excited. Hello, welcome. It's Hard Lord time. Bo, how are you? Do you miss me yet? I do miss you. Okay, good.

I'll see you in two days, but more importantly, more, most important, perhaps. We have an unbelievable guest today. The godfather of spin kick anthems. The podfather of Extreme Music Podcasting. Wow. A man who paved the way for Hardlore in so many ways. Wow. Musically, personally.

Other Lee's. Jamie Joste. Welcome, sir. Thanks for having me. Two very high praise coming from two very accomplished individuals. I'm going to tell my mom you said I'm accomplished. Mom! Yeah.

She's going to love it. I, this was so easy to put notes together for, because these are just, I just have so many things that I want to know. I full disclosure was watching just random hate breed sets on YouTube last night. And it was just like,

I wonder where this, and then it was like, well, oh, I could just ask him. Yeah. I can, I'll just ask him. I want to, I want to take this journey chronologically with you, Jamie. I want to find out how James Shanahan became Jamie Joss. As a boy from Connecticut, you know?

Are you 860 or the other one? I'm 203. 203. See? We got both. We're pure Connecticut representation happening here. Two sizes. There's just two, right?

They never came up with like a third for like New Londoners. Yeah. I know of them. No, it's just the two. Um, 1999 Yeah. He breed demo cassette.

Not one truth. Severed puritan. Is that like those, those three songs being the identity of a band right out of the gate. Um, I can't even, I can't imagine, frankly. And then are you, I like the demo better guy? Fuck no. Fuck that. I hate, I hate that.

But Dave snare sound was, was good on the demo. Like that, he, he had kind of like a little St. Anger going before St. Anger. And that demo did make it to high places. I mean, it had to have, considering what happened. But, but, but I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a Jamie Muck and Hopped, uh, die hard. As die hard as they come. I am, he's, he's, he's my Mount Rushmore straight up. It's like, it's, it's, I've said this before many times.

Jamie Muckin hopped. Mickey D Danny Schuller who was my fourth one Sal Aubur Scott D-Lux forget about it yeah he's up there DLUx those are my

that's who made me well you know Muck and Hopped he really would that cheater be or as some would call it I call it like the thrash beat but people will call it the DBE

we just called the cheater bee there's a lot of different terms for it but it's not like the Luki Luke beat because the Luki Luke and Luke played for hate breed for us for like half a minute.

Wow. And that was our claim to fame at first. We were like, we got the dude from youth today, George. Because he came on in Texas, but he was like, yo, I'm listening. He would listen to the tracks and be like, yo, I'm listening. And this is like, it's different on this demo than it is this. And I said, well, it's a different beat, right? It's like, I don't know what you guys or the fans of your show call it.

I like to just call it the D-B, but there's a lot of different. Or the hard quid. Like where it's staggered. What's a song? What's the Hap? The high hat follows the foot rather than just constant. Yeah, that's the D. Whereas Muck and Hop kind of like popularized the other way.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, got it. So he was playing pretty fast. He should get more credit than he does, just the reach of that album alone, I think. But Deluxe definitely, and Lombardo too, but they could, they would go back and forth from like the rolling kicks or what, what do you call that? Like when it goes to the halftime or the double time. Yeah, double time. Those, I mean, that's, that DNA is in everything now.

those three guys, especially of my ilk, you know, spin kicking music. Finally crafted by those three drummers. But what... But Dave, Dave laid it down for the demo. You know, shout out to Dave Russo. I mean, that style and that we were, you know, we were trying to get that tone more of like entombed and bolt thrower, but also we liked...

you know, integrity and Madball and Marauder and All Out War, like All At War always had a good drum tone. And it's so funny that those are your contemporaries. And you're saying that on the cover album, most of those bands are on there. Your influences are your contemporaries. So that's a pretty special thing. Well, also the cover album has bands like Shear Ter and Sub-Zero,

who also had that kind of four on the floor and had some of the breakdown style beats. Shear-Therr especially had that DB, but because Blake, who was originally in Shear-Therr, he had that big Celtic Frost influence. And if you listen to those drums, I mean, you know, he's up there as well. Why is his name escaping me right now?

He's fucking unbelievable. Yeah, I want to say Martin, but I'm fucking it up. Isn't Martin the guitar guitar? No, yeah. He's the other guy, yeah. That's the other homie. Oh, the homie. Yeah. This is why I need my producer, Brian.

Yeah, yeah. Shout out to Brian. So the guy who's not Martin Errcane or Tom G. War, that guy is awesome. Yeah. So what, I mean, he's really like, he's really like the drummer that was, you know, putting it down that style. Because discharge, think about Venom, discharge. Because discharge is like the, the, the, the DB. That is the DB.

Oh, G's, right? The OGs, right? Who, what was the decision to basically put the same, were you going to release the demo as a 7-inch, but then just took away a song? Read St. Mark. I'm so sorry, Reed. Read St. Mark. I forget.

Legend. Read St. Mark. Those same songs. Is that the same recording on the neglect split? Yes. So you, instead of being putting out a demo, just re-releasing the demo on a seven-inch. You said, no, fuck that.

I'm going to put on for some long island shit. I'm going to self-release this split with neglect. Well, yeah, and also we love neglect. Like Dave and I, shout it to Dave once again. We would listen to the, like, neglect was ignorant before it was just commonplace to be ignorant. And just, you know, saying, they just had a different, I don't know how. how they put a lot of the same influences probably together, but they just had a different delivery and it was very unique.

It's nice to see that they're getting some resurgence with fans and people find their stuff because they're another one that it probably would have popped off like a life of agony or a biohazard had they gotten, you know, signed to a roadrunner. I think that label, I forget the name of that label, but I think they kind of did them a disservice. What was it? We bite or for whatever. Was that it?

I think so. But now you got the distribution. Didn't have the videos to get on Headbanger's Ball. Great production. Very unique. Very unique. Yeah. But listen to that Sub Zero demo where they went kind of industrial.

You could hear that snare sound. You can hear that. because I liked that demo and that was when people were like oh they're jumping on you know the ministry thing or whatever but there was a lot of bands that were you know incorporating samples

and having different styles of snares and kicks and just harder like more just in your face and crunch on the guitar tones which people would because we didn't have terms at the time they would go oh it's kind of more industrial but really just because you put in samples it's more industrial a lot of bands like samples

it just wasn't during the song it was it was like before between or so. Yeah. Interesting. What do you remember about doing the demo, about recording the demo? Because like even for my own bands, when I think about doing demos, they're like so brief and like nothing. Like very winging it, very just like, oh, yeah, that sounds good.

Like, does anything come to mind when you think back about the first, those first three songs and like tracking them and putting them together? Just, it was just throw and go. just very quick. Larry had a, I mean, just even back then, knowing somebody with an amp was like a big deal. Like, because my previous band, Jostal 14, two of the kids had good amps. And that was like, that's key.

Like, you've got to have gear. Because we would, a lot of times we just show up and borrow people's gear. If you had gear to rehearse, like we would rehearse in Bridgeport. in Dave's basement and his mom was nice enough to let us do that

she would be watching like Howard Stern on the E channel upstairs we would go down rehearse and the neighbors must have just fucking thought we were like Satan worshippers and stuff but before we would rehearse we would listen to records to get inspired listen to shit

in Dave's room and try to like because there's always a lane that's open in in certain eras and we knew like everybody knew the lane was wide open for the crossover to come back because the shows had become very not well attended for certain bands and certain styles of bands but there was a new scene coming up so we knew we had to get the demo out we wanted to play a show even before the demo was out it was like that like it was the changing of the guard was happening

where the revelation stuff was kind of going below the wayside. Not that there was anything wrong with that stuff because I liked a lot of that stuff. But those bands were like, okay, what are we going to do? We got to like make a career out of this or call it a day. So they started signing to majors and making the jump and everybody started jumping ship. Like I don't like this.

Yeah. Like I just, you know, sieve and burn became orange and shine millimeter. Yeah, yeah. And there's always only ever going to be one or two that are going to really pop off. And I had been told that by multiple people with my previous band because I had gone to New York City and tried to shop my previous band and played. Like we played at the space at Chase a couple days after G.G Allen. And I was like, you know, in my shorts, like wanting to go on stage barefoot like Rollins. And the guy was like, what your fucking shoes on?

Are you crazy? Do you know who was just here? And like, because I was so young, I didn't know. I was like, ooh, and they're like, G.G. I was here. There's shit blood. There's people with AIDS. And we're like, oh, really?

Oh, no. So I put my shoes back on. Did the shit. But I had called so many of those labels and called so many of the, even the indie labels, I had bothered so many people. So I knew that in order to shop a demo, you had to have a good recording. You have to have a good guitar head. You have to have a good drum mix.

Because at that time, also, when I had put out the Jostaf 14 demo, we pretended like we were a label. So we put like the logo and I went and got a peel box. So I started getting sent demos. Whoa. And I knew, and I was getting hundreds of demos in the mail, like in the snail mail. So I knew what was commercially just garbage compared to what was like at the time I would use quickness, bad brains quickness I would use as like it's got to be as close to this or body count or even like somebody like. Quickness was the measuring stick to like how to how to pop off. Well, no, just sound wise.

Oh, Mackey drums, big thick guitars. Yeah. Yeah, because I knew we weren't going to be able to afford. I mean, we used other records too. Like, obviously, the guy there in Rhode Island, who did the Chromeags and did leeway, Jamie Locke, was it, no, even before him. there was a guy before him

I can his name's right on the tip of my tongue people are yelling at their screen right now keep talking um there's uh but those were really good right and so when stuff would come out

people would go there to record and stuff would come out I would go oh wow this might even like this might even top quickness quickness Chris Williamson Chris Williamson um

Tom Sores, Jamie Locke. There was a lot of like recordings that would raise the bar sort of each time. And I knew we didn't have the budget for that. But with the demo, we just, I just wanted it to be like even. That was the main thing. Like, let's just have it even where everything, like the snare pops, the guitar pops. You've got the little samples, the wind and shit, but it just sounded pro enough for having zero budget.

So even at the conception of the like of the day of the hay breed demo you were planning how to make the biggest impact you could. Oh, it was always like horse before the cart. Like it was never like it was always like some. And even I think when we did the joke song because there was a joke song out. And like a level at the time. Shout out to Scott. level, had a demo.

And Jocelyn 14 had gone to this guy real sound. Shout out to Dan. They, he had a four track. And then he had, I forget what the other thing was called, but it was like, you would bounce down from the four track.

It was, this was all pre. It was a tape machine. I forget what it was called. I want to say ADAT. I think you're right. but even prior to ADAS, there was something else that we did

at this other studio in Connecticut, but that guy, Dan, and then there was a band that we would play with, trying to think where they did their demo, and their demo sounded really good. It was, it's so fascinating to hear this

to just be like, yo. Because we had a show booked. So it was like, you've got to have demos to sell at the show. Yeah, to get it out. So that was your motivation to recording music was just having something for the gig? Because it's hard to describe. There was this like, I guess back then you could call it a collective consciousness, but you knew shit was about to pop off because it was a changing of the guard.

And you would go to shows with these legendary bands. I was to go to every show. So I would go to like overkill and prong. And I would see, I would be like, oh, these guys, like this audience is totally different from the audience that was at fucking into another like it's a completely different crowd but you would see a couple of the cross-up of the yes and you would go

oh this is a person like this is a dude like or this is a chick so you go to see mighty boss tones and you would go wait okay they there's moshing they're stage diving but it's different and then there's girls at that show so you give your flyer to those girls at that show and you holler

and you say, hey, come to this show. Now they come to your show, and they're like, oh, man, we're the only two girls here. It's a little scary. Sure. But you, we're building something out. Wow. The analytics that you're describing right now are,

this is all evidence to why hate breed is the biggest, statistically the biggest hardcore band of all the time. My band still doesn't think about shit. Yeah, I would never. You know what was a big, what was a big eye opener for us? And rest of peace this guy, Mark Shetty. I don't know if you ever heard stories about Mark.

But he he. Mark shitty. Yeah. Rest in peace. Mark Shitty. Mark Martin. He, I used to take the Q bus to the record store. And then in New Haven, and I would take the bus to and from school. You take the city bus like everywhere. And so I was going into a record store and he was coming out.

And I forget what shirt I was wearing. I think it was super touch. and I remembered he was like dude nice shirt whatever and he had just bought urban discipline on tape and he was like wait till you hear this I had a couple of the songs from the maze record from a friend of mine at school who made me a mixtape and I had like Sepulterra

Benediction napalm biohazard carnivore some of the typo stuff I think it was back then it was probably like the stuff that made it on slow deep and hard yeah um but um he had said right on dude you know I said oh I want to get that

I want to get that tape I didn't have enough I ended up getting um I ended up getting earth AD and I listened to and Earth AD actually was in the dollar bin I remember the kids saying oh they're trying to go metal they're trying to go thrash or whatever because depending on who you would talk to, there was always like the gatekeeper thing with this was big back then. Like the punkers didn't want quickness. They didn't want Earth AD. But I was all about

that action. This is the, this is everything we were saying last week on the bad albums one is that like people now don't understand this divide that there was upon the release of every single one of these things. It's like this, this band's entire fan base basically being like, nope, fuck this and fuck everything they've ever done because it's not exactly the same. Yeah, and I thought, wow, this guy's really, this is cool that he likes the second biohazer, because even then there was people like, do this, it'll never touch the self-titled or the maze record or whatever you call it. But so then he goes, oh, we're going to a show, you know, and I was like, all right, right on, I'll see you there. And it was Fugazi.

And we started moshing me, him, and some other people. We didn't know. We thought, oh, it's members of Mike. We don't fucking know. They stopped the show. They kick us out. Wow. Yeah.

And I thought this is it. Like this is, there's a whole, like, for every one of these people, there's like thousands of people that need this release. Like I was like, how could the guy from minor threat be too cool for the? And they were just evolving as people. They saw all the violence already with minor threat,

ruining the shows. And that was happening at that time at even like biohazard shows and agnostic front shows. Like the violence had really put a damper in things. But I would hear from older Connecticut guys, they'd be like, yo, I didn't even really like biohazard. I just loved moshing. And it was like so violent that I just had to be a part of it. Oh, it was, it was sanctioned violence. It was crazy.

They played down the street from my house. with typonegative and exploited. I rode my bike there and literally walking up, like people are coming out like bloody, fucking shoes off. There was so many fights. It was crazy.

But that was an important thing. It was a, it was a positive release, even though that bands like Fugazi and their fans looked at it as very bad. It was way better than these kids what they could have been doing. They could have been crawling through your window.

they were at the show moshing and having this release. So that was always like in my mind like okay yeah this is if these people hate it this means other people are going to love this. Right.

Yeah there's there's such a thing as positive aggression and there are ways that people can let it out whether it's like lifting weights or doing fucking you know moitai or jiu-jitsu or whatever and sometimes it's spin kick Oh.

Preach diving. Preach. Yeah. When how far? It always gets taken too far too. So you're going to go to extremes. It's like a healthy balance of it. We just had a collective consciousness where you knew this is not welcome here, but that's good.

This is fuel for the fire. We can do it somewhere else and we don't need them and they don't need us. And it's fine. That's how you felt at the time. Yeah, and also that's kind of the thinking behind your last episode with, you know, people wanting to make the jump. I never fault the people for trying to make the jump and create a new collective consciousness. But you're really rolling the dice when you don't serve the base that you have. Some people don't know they're making a jump with these with these records, though.

They do. They say they don't. they say they don't but they do and and and before i forget i wanted to bring that up because when you guys were talking about that no warning record yeah i was like deep into i don't know how far into the conspiratainment stuff you went with um with carl because he was he was really deep in it then but i was going deep into it at that time and having signed to a major label and become, I had become a

Viacom employee. Yeah, right. Right. I knew at some point, it wasn't me, but I knew at some point the shit was going to be co-opted. I was just trying to have a plan B

or a plan C, which you never want. I don't, I don't recommend that to anybody. You never want that. You want to be all in, especially if you're 17 or whatever, 15 to, I would even say like,

Just be all in. But when they came up to MTV with Mike Shinoda, I was like, ooh, this is just career suicide. But when I heard the record, I was like, oh, it's actually good. It's still hard. So, and I would joke, I would joke with Zeus. I would say, hey, if we, we could mix this,

we could just edit this down to, like, Instead of being two and a half minutes or three minutes songs, we can make these like one minute bangers. And hardcore kids would eat this shit up. Yeah. The second you hit the some 41 type of chorus or the Lincoln Park note hitting, you've lost everybody from your base because they're just not ready for it. I think that's how even no warning looks at it as a band now.

Yeah. But not true because I was. But I thought, tell me what I was right. But what it was like. It was. weird. It was so weird to see and hear about this stuff in the industry like oh we're going to do the hate brief thing. We're going to sign to

a major label and we're going to pop off and I'd be like, but you're changing your sound. How is that going to work? Yeah, no, that's not how it works. Yeah. And so with that scenario, I thought, okay, if this shit is really being co-opted, how are they going to

like how are they going to make this palatable but still have the base Room for the OGs. Yeah. I mean, and time showed that it did. A lot of bands couldn't do it. Poisoned the well. There was a lot. Most. You know who did it? Hey, breed. I would say Thursday. Yeah. Thursday. They, they, they say AFI. Definitely. The one. You know, they they, they, they, they were like, I mean, we, we, they're, they're ones that we pulled up to the show and borrowed the gear. And they let us. They were like, wait, what? And then they did.

And we were like at a Christian coffee house. Yo, let us play 20 minutes. We, you know, our show got canceled. Shout out to Tony No Clubs. He booked the show. I think it was at Tampa or Ebor City. But so AFI, they were another one. Even though it was a different scene, they were still in tune with the collective consciousness

of their base. So they knew for every, you know, 10 or 20 people that might jump ship, you're going to grab however many more. because you now you have the reach because you can get your record into the stores. We just saw them play to 10,000 people. 10,000 people on that record two days ago. And it was fucking crazy.

Oh, no way. Yeah, we were there. And the pop is for that record only, right? Only. That's the pop off. Yeah. That was all they played. And that was all people were there for, trust me.

Yeah. You should do a mix. You should take that song. We were, what's the one? We would go, yours is scratch the surface. Ours is scratch the skin or whatever. You should take that song and just edit the singing parts out and put it out on your podcast.

People are like, this is the greatest shit ever. Of scratch the skin? Is that the, yeah, that's the no warning song. I'll do it for the whole album. It goes soon on hard law records coming soon. No, you should do that because that's a lane that's so fucking wide open right now. With all these hip hop artists, like giving away their libraries and giving away their sounds.

And now, like, even with, like, Jay from Slipknot, you could get his whole kit on Mixwave. Oh, I've been using it. He's got it. It's dope. It's dope. Yeah. So, like, and I'm going to do a bunch of demos with that for my Patreon. But I was thinking that should be a whole niche.

That should be a whole side lane. Like, give me, like, code orange. Call me. I'll do like the Josta, like no fucking, no, um, no gimmicks. Uh, no glitching, no, um, electronic, uh, just fucking Gibson, Marshall reamp. And put it out because you're, that's a whole lane that wants that. They're, they're, they're for sure listening to this right now. And I know they're going, fuck's sake.

Fucking burying us. Burying me, brother. Why? That's a compliment. I know. It is a compliment. I've had this conversation with them many times. And that's one of those records that somebody brought up.

Because I think the glitching and stuff was on the wall. But there's a conversation to be had of like the glitch might be interrupting a spin kick. You know, a foot might be mid-air when that glitch hits. It's a danceable moment. You don't want to remove that. Also, because your ears are evolved doesn't mean the people that got you to the dance. It doesn't mean their ears are evolved too. And I used to have this same conversation about slither, about quickness, about Earth AD.

In time, some of these records that people are shitting on will be viewed as classics as the best record in the catalog or whatever. Ex-Alph Omega. Yeah, yeah. You know? Oh, I covered, wait, I don't know if I ever did the vocals for it, but see the signs. I used to tell Zeus, I would go, yo, take out the cheesy scratching. And this is not a disrespect. It's a fucking opinion.

The egos also get in the way. Like, people come to me and they go, oh, I don't like this hate this hate being record. I don't care because I have my ego in check. Like, I'm just happy I was able to get to that many amount of records. Still going. Fuck, yeah. Right. So, like, that was never a case.

There was no happy endings. There was very... Aside from the record scratching, that song is undeniable. Oh, it's bananas. Hard. The lyrics could be written today. Agreed. I mean, the whole album is lyrics could be written to me.

Like, if you look at what's happening now in the fucking East Palestine, Ohio. Literally, that song about the Skid Row in L.A. And about... It's literally could be happening today. Yeah. The records are the signs of a corrupt nation. Let's talk about a... But near-death experience.

No. No, brother. First song, awesome. First song is a save. Why don't you go to these fans? Like, why don't you do a whole... Because you could license it from the labels. And...

No, I'm serious. Like I was saying earlier, the producer at one... What are you're saying? Well, the producer... at one point was a star. Yeah. The producer was a star. Like Ross Robinson,

he put out shit and these kids with the big pants and the mesh and the guy liner, they were buying that. With the spiky hair, they were buying whatever was on there. Ross touched, yeah.

Near death experience was Century Media. All music gave it one and a half stars. Well, I had Ross on my show and I was talking about why we didn't go with him. to record perseverance. And people looked at me like I was fucking crazy. Are you fucking crazy?

You have a chance? Ross Robbins, he's even taking your call. He called him my old landline. Wow. I have my Greek landlord like breathing down my neck. Anybody who's ever had a Greek landlord, they know the Greeks don't fuck around.

Our old drummer was Greek. Like I knew a lot of Greeks. Like he wouldn't, I had a baby on the way. He wouldn't even fix the railing. Like my girls out there were like, my daughter was born in January. We're coming home trying to go up to

fucking concrete steps to the apartment. There's no fucking railing that just snowed. Like this is the type of scumbag shit we had to deal with. But I knew that this record was so important that if we put Ross Robinson's name on it, now I'm no warning. Now I'm

right? You have to know your base. Well, I mean, I want to work our way there. But before I do perseverance quite possibly

the great not even just hardcore one of the greatest follow-ups in the history of music crazy you're too kind no this is this objective brother this is not this isn't even it does come from a place of kindness

and love but I don't know a single person that would be like you're wrong you know and then it's even crazier what comes after but we'll get there we'll get there let's go back let's go back to under the knife real quick but was it before or after under the knife

when it felt like a turning point of like okay we got something I think I think the our formula of handing out the flyers to the two girls at the end to another show might be working it was kind of during because the snail mail started to rack up the mail from Europe Japan Australia the tape trading too

was was key because you're that was like the original sort of internet. When I talk about the collective consciousness, you knew that you're feeling that you got from that demo tape. You knew that there was somebody on that same wavelength that when they got it in the mail,

they were going to put it in the tape deck, and they were hopefully going to get that same feeling. Just not like, hey, these guys like what I like, clearly. And they're on the other side of the world. Wow. Yeah. Oh, you know what? You guys were nice enough to,

Let me go off on a what I call it is a Tommy tangent. Like that's a character on my, my Patreon. So I apologize. Slash. Slash josta. I went on a full Tommy tangent. But I was going to say was I was going to shout out higher force because their demo. It was great.

I was just talking to Sean about this. Shout it to Sean Martin. I forget where I was talking about it. The biggest. He was our first guest. First guest. Nice. Yeah.

But I was saying. that quality of that demo and then also they had the real cassette where the cassette was like a color and then it was printed on the cassette i didn't even know that i thought that was only available to like major label right people so when i saw that and i forget who they recorded it with because i'd really like to give that person a shout out but um that i was telling sean that was such a step up from his previous band Evolve who when I was in my old band I would always try to hit those guys up talk to those guys in the shows but that was they were like the gatekeeper guys you know it was like oh leave me alone who's his 13 year old kid don't bother me with your band so I knew early on nobody's doing you any favors you got to book your own show you got to be the guy

yeah absolutely you have to stand out in some way yeah because no one's no one's going to put you on their show they already got five other bands they're friends with that want to get on the show right um and there was a vf w hall that actually was run by a greek dude shout out and shout out grease grease was no because the like anybody's ever been to a diner after a hardcore show or a punk rock show oh it's like you know the deal the greeks They're making it happen. They're coming in. If they don't come in, they send like a cousin to come in to do the work.

And it's like, Panos is, Panos can't come. He's sending in. And you're like, all right. Nick, I got a Greek spot two doors down. Wonderful. Nice. Wonderful. Yeah, so I would see people at like the diner after the shows at the Greek diner,

give them the tapes, say, hey, let's do a show. sometimes they were like, leave me the fuck alone. Sometimes we're like, our people. But once our shows started popping off on its own, then it was like, oh, now, now we're talking. Like now we got, it would go from 40 kids to 60 kids to 100 kids and so on. And then under the knife, post, post under the knife, everything was different, right? You know, that was kind of a step back with the recording because again, we didn't have the budget.

went to a different studio. It's not the best sound. But people love the way that thing sounds. I know, which is, which we were just happy that people liked it. We're just like, and that was a big deal. Like, oh, we're going to go, we're going to make it at disc makers. And I remember talking to disc makers and they were like, yeah, we got the cassettes with

the printing on it. And I was like, really? That's what I want. Yeah, I want. So I want the black cassette. that's extra. Shit, okay, well, we got to come up with the loo. We'll figure it out.

Yeah. Wow. Wow. Under the knife, man. And infamously, after under the knife and before satisfaction, is a long period of time. Or am I, I'm sorry, it's after satisfaction. But you did a split with integrity. What was that like for you as just an integrity fan at the time?

I mean, it was a let down just strictly because, Dwyd was on his other like worldly. He was just in another world. But I'll give him some art shit. Well, I'll just, I'll hand it to him that after just giving me the run around, he did eventually get me the tracks. And I was scatterbrain too. So a lot of it could be put on me.

If you ever get him on the show and you ask him about it, you could, he might put it on me. But I just remember. it was like punish, I would like punish this dude to try to get a response. And again, I thought, okay, maybe we don't need to rely on other people to, like let's, maybe we should just do our own thing. Like maybe we should just distance ourselves from these bands because they're not really, like integrity wasn't a band that was like unifying people.

And I mean that with the utmost respect. because they were I think as far as players and as far as the tones and as far as and I know people will say they can say like

which riffs they ripped off and this and that you can say that about everything that's that's making music baby that's the business we're in but at that time there was also this whole scene divide where I was like

I don't want to be in this like I don't want to be involved with this I like I'm want to go play Buffalo. I want to go play Albany. All these places have great scenes. Like, it's not a competition. But for whatever reason, with Cleveland, and they were older than us, too. I think that might have had something to do with it. Like, they all had very large egos in all those Cleveland bands, not so much ringworm because they were kind of like your buddies, like, neighbors band. And I remember getting the vinyl and being like, oh, my God, like they're drinking

Milwaukee's beast like we do like they're not you know they're not rich kids because that was the other thing the rich kid bands you know they would show up they got 51 50s they got fucking brand new 40 conaline van with fucking rims on it we're we we we we're like who are your parents how do you make this shit happen we're you know we're sleeping on top of my grandmother's house with my uncle paulie rest in peace he's on under the knife he's the guy on the on the um he he brought us on our first tour with my previous band so we rented a you hall yeah wow so so we went down at virginia beach played with nate from converges old band channel who i had put out on my label i put out to seven inch day and uh we went with this band dive

from massachusetts who now matt is in the drop kick murfys so we had seen like these guys that weren't like team players we grew up dealing with them so we knew like let's not make the same mistakes that they're making it's not a diss it's just they would probably admit that now i'm sure maybe even dwind would admit that now it's like you know and it it was funny it was entertaining sure i mean you can't get it worked out for hatebreed in the end You can't get mad at whatever path you took. And you can't say they took the wrong path. I'll say that much.

Did you have any interactions with Frank? No, there are people that say there are people that literally they just want to support the most underground, obscure small bands. And I'm the same way. So I don't knock them. I'm just saying I realized that there was a huge network of great bands. We could all tour together. We could all come up together. But that wasn't the case.

with certain bands. Sure. They weren't putting the, the ladder down. Was old Florida Frank cool in 1996 to you? Yeah. No, Frank, Frank was always cool.

You know, I had, I had rodee for the band, too. So, like, I had driven in the van with them and, and helped out here and there. And I liked all the guys,

but you could see they, they weren't going to, that lineup was not going to stay the same. And to me, that, you know, that, that classic lineup

was the best version. Sure. A lot of people don't remember when they jumped the shark and did the whole Integrity 2000 thing. And so that was like an example. Like, do not do that. Do not. Evolve, don't change.

That was a change. I was going to save this for later. but he came up and I think we have to talk about Frank's pedigree of bands possibly the best untouchable resume like pound for pound ringworm integrity Tara Heybred well see that

but also the only reason why I bring this up and shout out to Frank still love the promise I still go listen to it and not too long ago I listen we put I forget what song we put on my it might have been when you were on. There was one episode we were on. Maybe my hardest hardcore tracks.

I think we put, Misha, like, integrity is on there. One of the songs is on there. There was a blowout. There was a verbal blowout between Wayne and Frank regarding seasons and systems. Really? Yeah, I don't remember the exact context,

but it was like, it ended up in both, like, being like, I can't talk to you right now. And it was like, I was, it was nice for me to see the passion about the integrity discography is still going. You know? Yes. That was nice for me. Well, a lot of people,

a lot of people jump ship like on seasons, seasons in the size of days, which isn't, which isn't a bad record. A lot of people is hard as fuck. Do seasons as pound for pound some of the hardest integrity pit parts? For sure. Orbital teleplastic emanation.

Fuck off. That's a pit, dude. Spin kick. Rolls off the tongue. It does. We were also getting accused of being like an integrity ripoff band on the demo. So you can hear on Under the Knife, it was, I said, well, Integrity doesn't do blast beats. Like, think about all these bands that we like that have so much of a bigger audience than Integrity. And if we got to get away from that tag and create our own sound, that's why you hear such a different sound from. And it kind of makes me crack up when you say, when people say, oh, every.

sounds the same. It's such a big difference from under the knife and the demo to satisfaction where satisfaction is really not inspired by integrity at all. No, I wouldn't say so. And our old guitar player, Lou, God rest the soul, you know, when I first

showed him the riff for empty promises, he hated it. He was like, this is like rage against the machine or something and I'm like, what are you talking about? Dude, this shit's hard. Like, this is going to be the opener. Like, this is the album opener. This is it. And it was like...

He said that about the... Yeah. Wow. And I don't even like bringing up stuff like that because he's not here to state his case. Yeah, yeah. But he did that multiple times. But that was kind of like, you know, in a loving way, I was kind of like, well, you're older than us. Right.

And you don't have the same vision as us. Like you're, you're kind of in that older camp where you have one version. And so I thought if he doesn't like it, it might be huge. Wow. You know, because he didn't like I can't believe either. The litmus test of age. Boulder, boulder razzing you on the empty promises breakdown. Yeah.

And he didn't like I will be heard either. And that's a certifiable mistake. He didn't like the riff. Oh, I see. Hmm. Interesting. again he's not here to dispute that so like rest in peace bolder legend yeah and now when i look back and i go when you you just when you go with your gut and when you hear things because you know how

you like you hear things with your gut like it hits you like you hear something and it's like you're just going by a feeling you could strategize all you want but if you don't have that feeling no someone else is not going to have that feeling that's why probably when you guys your demos and stuff, you scrap a lot of stuff. Dude, I have what's called the next day test. If it still rocks the next day, it's good. Yeah, like I... You sit on it overnight and then you listen to it the next day.

It's so good. You're like, all right. Fresh years. It's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I have an addictive personality. So, like, I'll haul a song in my head. Like, if I get an earworm, I can have an earworm for six months to the point where I'll

lose my mind. Like so people go, oh, why, why was it so long in between two records, almost five years? You don't understand. That shit was replaying in my mind for years. We're the same person, Jane. Yeah, you're describing. We're the same. You're describing my entire, like one, every single riff, especially like breakdowns and mosh parts,

is like a full science experiment. It takes a year of focus grouping in here to figure out the right way to play. little part. I still have the riff you showed me over the weekend. Only twice. Still have it in my head. So you go. You got one that one fat. The focus group is the results are in. You ever have a riff that has to go with certain lyrics. It can't be like the two are married. I wanted to ask you about this specifically. Yeah. Because I I learned over just, you know, over the course of time that you are the riffman for a lot of, if not much, most hate read stuff. And being the lyricist singer, I'm imagining you do that a lot where you,

you hear a riff and you hear the part and you know how you're going to deliver it. You know it's going to be the sing-along part or whatever it is. I have to imagine that that happens at the same time for you. A lot of time it does, but also if I if I write like say a chorus or I write a verse and sometimes um i'll write a second verse with a different cadence or whatever i'll then fit the riff and i'll choose whichever riff i think like flows better under that cadence but i've had and this is why now i'm just branching out and doing production and doing co-writes and stuff i've had so many songs that i knew i couldn't put out as hate breed or as josta or as kingdom or whatever like i I just where then it's in my head for so long.

That's how this whole corpse grinder record came about. Wow. I had this hook. And it was so ignorant. It was I'll pull the trigger. I'll flip the switch. I'll pull the trigger. I'll flip the switch.

I'll pour the gas. I'll light the match. No questions ask. And I would go. And it was in my head for like literally eight months. And finally I was like, I can't, I can't say this shit. like I don't want this shit coming to life and I don't want this on me

like because I want it put it on old George because it's it spells like you're casting a spell like it was so dark like some of the some of the shit was so dark and I know because after touring for five years unsatisfaction and seeing people like almost kill each other I was like this is this is some sorcery like I need to

I need to balance out some some some positivity you've been casting spells on me for a long time Jamie I'll tell you well thank you So is that where that came from? The lyrical, I'm not going to say change, but just kind of redirection towards a more positive view point, I guess, or message overall. Wow.

So you wanted to not mosh as hard? Is that? No, you just, you just wanted to have the violence be associated with a cathartic experience. and have it be associated with a cleansing where, like you see now, say in UFC, these guys are going to take each other's heads off. But at the end, there's, like, sportsmanship. I just looked at it as, like, having a balance and, like, having sportsmanship. Like, we could have the show.

Everybody's fucking beating the shit out of each other. It's controlled chaos and it's sanctioned violence. There is more sportsmanship than ever, pit-wise. in hardcore right now, I will say. I've seen less, less fights per capita for show. Very few fights recently. Good. But way hard. It was getting bad and it was getting to the point

where there were people like high up people going you will be named in the suit and the judge will set a precedent and then you will be known as the person who ruined it for Mariah Carey and ruined it for and all you need is one judge to set the precedent

because it starts, you know, when we first got on Oz Fest. It was like, you can't say this. You can't say that. You can't do this. What couldn't you say? Fuck it up or something? Like, look at the person next to you, punch him in the fail. Like, if, like in Boston, look at the person next to you. If they're standing still, they're a Yankees fan and vice versa, like in New York. If look at the person, anybody standing still is a Red Sox fan. Literally the whole place turns into a fight. That was banned. Oh yeah. They were like, you cannot. No spots references at fucking Oz Fest, dude.

but also it was because you were associated with hardcore. This is back when this, this is when people with like face tattoos, nobody saw them until they were at our shows. Like it was like you seeing somebody in the wild that this was a shock to people. Like they're like, these people are coming are criminals. These kids are criminals.

Like so it was different then. They, now it's normal. Like now you see someone with a face tattoo. and it's not taboo it's a tick tocker it's a yeah yeah right you don't think that they're gonna have

like a bunch of dudes roll up on motorcycles and when before it was it was guaranteed yeah he has a face that too I'm dead it goes along with what jay from mind force was saying is that like moshing now

like hard moshing is kind of scarier because everyone's doing the crazy shit whereas back in the day he was saying especially particularly in like Hudson Valley, which he said a thousand times in Connecticut. It was like there'd be one or two guys doing that and they were just the craziest guys.

The untouchables. The untouchables, yeah. The made man were doing it. And then you had people swinging chains. You had people bringing pipples, people bringing shovels, you know, just all sorts of shit where it was just ignorant.

I mean, yeah, garbage cans being thrown. Did you do much touring on under the knife? Yeah. actually we did a tour with Vorhees. Shout out to Neil. Shout out to Final Conflict. Shout out to, yeah,

we did a tour. See, that was another real turning point, too, was that was like a more basement, grind, crust circuit, which is a great circuit.

Like, that's a fun, that's a good time. Like, I'm sure that still exists. Oh, yeah. But that was, was an eye opener because it was like, okay.

And this is the case for every crossover band. It was the same for AF because I remember A, I remember reading about AF going through this where, you know, they're on tour with malevolent creation and and cannibal corpse and obituary. And I thought that was rad.

But then they were like, what record would that have been on? That was on one voice. Which is, that's like they're straight up most modern hardcore record. That's hard as fuck. Yeah. So that's wild.

I went into Rhymes Records and I go, that's a tattoo. This guy has a, the poster is just Roger's chest. Right. And it's this crazy tattoo. And the guy goes, yeah, that's Roger. That's Roger Morat. And I go, I got to know this guy. Like, this is crazy.

Who would do that to their chest? I got this guy that has to be the best record ever. Then I got the tape and I played it for a friend. And they were like, and he's like, one of the songs, I think it's under toe. He's like, yeah, that's about Roger going to prison. Um, that's some hard lore. Yeah. And I was like, this is the, one of the hardest things I've ever heard in my life.

This is one of the hardest records in my, but then when I went to the show, um, and they played at this place. It was, it was either called the urban jungle or it had just turned over and it was called the tune in. They, you could tell everybody was scared at the show. Like people didn't want a mosh. And it was, it was like a, they had taken a dip on that. record, even though I thought it was amazing. I liked those records. Yeah. Yeah. That was actually the perception has changed now. That's that's it's very fondly appreciated. Yeah. But then they came back and they had Lars produced the record. We did a bunch of the

reunion shows. That was a game changer for us too, getting the co-signed from AF. When they came back that they, they knew the collective consciousness. Like yes, let's have it be sing along. Let's have it be Brotherhood, Unity, fun, inclusion. Like, that was a big deal. Like, inclusion means something different now. Back then, it was, it was like, yeah, let's have punk rockers. Oi. Because Warzone, we would play with Warzone all the time.

It was, it was amazing. And I had gone to see. What's that? Hey, sorry, Hey Breeding Warzone would play together all the time. And actually, Ray B's was going to guess on satisfaction. Wow. And we just didn't, it just for whatever reason, we didn't link up. This is back when you're calling people on landlines, you're writing letters, or you're going to their place.

That was a big, like, that was a big deal when AF and Warzone both started popping off again. That was amazing because I was like one of those kids. I liked the re-records. Like the victory re-records of Warzone, they were great. The production was up there with other stuff that was out. and all was forgiven, like, from the bullet hole record. That was another dollar bin record. We talked about that briefly the last week.

Okay, yeah, like that was one. You walk up to the counter. The kids like, don't do it. I'm like, it's only a dollar. No, don't do it. Not worth it. But the changing of the guard is another thing that you've got to be aware of because the kids that would come and go.

Like all those kids at the Vugazi show that were like, you know, you guys get the fuck out of here. go fuck yourselves, fuck moshing, fuck stage diving. They were all lawyers and doctors like three years later. They were going to Yale. They were the kids that we hated. Yeah.

You know what I mean? So it was like, you see at the time, if I was a young Joss, I would have been like, fuck these motherfuckers. But you immediately business mind where like I see there's another thing happening.

I need to do this other thing. If I want this, other people have to want this. Yeah. But I was also promoting shows and I would see the kids that would get dropped off. So that made me think differently.

Growing up, being so close to Yale, but having so little and being like, how do these people have all the, like, there's like helipads and shit. Like this is the most powerful and rich people on earth. And literally two blocks away is just gang violence, homelessness, projects right at the end of my street. I was just there the other night because my brother actually bought some other

property right near the house that we grew up in. The projects are still there at the end of my street. I mean, that was like, that was just scary walk into school, just dealing with certain people there. And then the club that you go see the shows, like where Nirvana played, Melvin's typo, exploited. That was only maybe eight blocks down, Waley Avenue, this place, the moon. And then another, whatever, eight to ten blocks down is where the urban jungle in the tune in was. But it was stark contrast going there, walking, riding your bike or taking the bus. Once you get into Yale,

I mean, you're talking skull and bone society. Yeah. You're talking about relatives and people. Like kids where, like I remember, this girl had security. She was going to Yale.

She had security. And we were like, who the fuck is this chicken? She ended up being on the show, Roseanne. I think she was like the daughter. Oh, Sarah Gilbert. Becky or.

Someone should, I could be totally Brian Williams thing, the shit out of that store. what's the guy's name? I could be fucking Brian Williamson the shit out of that story. You're Andrew Morris seeing

the shit of that story. And I love, you know, I love to embellish with the rest of them. But the point I'm trying to make is that it was once I started

doing the door at my own shows, I was like, I can't really knock these kids because they're helping me not lose my shirt. They're helping me pay my rent

or pay the studio bill. And when they're getting dropped off, you know, in the Mercedes or in the BMW, but they got their Liberty Spikes. And I did all the shows. I did the Christian shows. I did the ska shows.

I did the, you know, the metal shows. I did even like glam shows. Like I did rat. I did. And then I did like big shows like Guar, misfits.

So I promoted shows. And I saw each sort of crowd. Did that help you at all later while Hey Breed was popping off with these bands remembering you, booking them? It did. In some, where it didn't go great, it didn't help me. Like, because Gwar was like, yo, the fucking Connecticut dude. Yeah, Gwar, there was multiple times where it was almost came to blows. Um, another one with Lou, God rest of soul. We, we rolled up to go see these

dudes in Amen. And they were opening for Gwar. And we just rolled up to go see them. And we were taking a piss out back of the chance. But we were pissing on Gwars. But we were pissing on Gwars. bus. Like we were pissing on on the bus. On the tire. Because it's like the buses parked in the alley. That don't count. That's going to roll right off. And Brockie came out, started screaming, wanted to fight. And then when we eventually got put

on their shows, we got kicked off the tour because of a whole that was because we had too many friends backstage. Somebody stole something. The typical, like, this is why we don't have nice things. Yeah. That a lot of bands deal with. Connecticut. Connecticut activity, you know. And I actually got spared, you know, going, like having long-term problems with people you don't want to have problems with.

And sure. And booking agents and managers and people that could really fuck your career up. Yeah. Like, misfits eventually, like, we're like, don't worry about it. Jerry was cool. Um, Doyle was cool. You know, it was just stupid, drunken behavior with us and our friends. And, um, but yeah, I was seeing those.

kids come up to the shows, I would, I would say like, yeah, well, this, why wouldn't you want this person as your fan? Yeah, because I, because that was the tickets to something. So, right. Because that was the shortcomings that a lot of bands like,

volunteer. They just volunteered. They would go like, oh, we're not playing with that band. I go, why? Are you crazy? The band is huge. Now, fuck that. We're don't, we're not playing. And I'm not going to say what bands, but you guys know them. And, you know, it was like, you don't want to open for Slip? you don't want to open for deaf tones

you don't want to like like corn um we turned we turned down we actually went to play with machine head instead and then everybody was like yo you what do you and the machine that show was great but it was only like 200 people corn sold out Toad's place a thousand fucking people

yeah right I did not growing up I'm 35 now so growing up when corn was when corn was first like a thing I was very very young I never really realized until I watched that fucking Woodstock documentary that came out last year. How big

big corn was. They were, yeah, the kids, the basketball team at my elementary school was for sure all about corn. Couldn't tell you another rock band. And you know what? No one's really cool about them especially. Actually, you know Scott Lee? Shout out to Scott Lee. Of course. He was the one who told me, he's like, this is, these are the kids you got to play for. Like these

kids, they just want to mash. They just want to to jump around. They want heavy shit. They don't even know that your scene exists. That's what he said. He goes, they don't even know. So I said, all right, where's the show? He's like, because we're playing at fucking Pearl Street and Toad's Place in these clubs. He goes, dude, they're playing New Haven Coliseum. Fuck. And you know what's funny is when we went to the, when we went to open for machine head, you know, they had, I love machine head. Don't even wrong, but they had their weights and back. It was like, we couldn't have a dressing room. They have to have their treadmill in there. We're like, this is fantasy. I'm like, bro, there's

200 people here. Like, what do you need all this year for? They, and Stuck Mojo, like they were, they were lifting weights too, and I gave the singer the tape. He kind of like big time me. I was like, whatever. We had a line for the tapes and the shirts

like a line bigger than those two bands. And I, and I was like, all right, we're on to something here. But then they started playing a song. Machine had started playing a song. A place fucking went berserk. And I go, yo, what song is this? Like, what album is this off?

I don't know this on. They're like, no, they just covered corn. Machine had covered corn. That's how big it was. Wow. At that show. Yeah. At the show where they were.

And I was like, you said no to corn. We were supposed, yeah, because it was something happened like somebody canceled and they booked like a last minute show. They would have never, they would have never even had a local band, I think, at that point. Because they were already taking out. Sure. I forget who they had. Yeah.

Kitty or something. So they came back, satisfaction had come out. They came back to New Haven Coliseum. I went to Kinkos, and I just made like 5,000 handbills for all our shows coming up. And then I grabbed a bunch of people. I went to New Haven Coliseum. And I was just giving them out to everywhere. And then I went back by the buses.

I went down the loading ramp. The dude was looking away. So I got down the loading ramp and I had a copy of satisfaction on CD. And I saw a monk. and I gave it to him. And they ended up taking us on tour many years later, but he had remembered, like, me giving him the CD, but that was another thing that...

You think he signed you to Roadside Records that day, or do you think he... He might have, but, like, that was a good thing for us on supremacy. We needed, like, some bigger looks, because at that point, everybody was gravitating towards the, like, the Dragon Force and avenged and just, like, more noodley-y-type-of-a-old.

heavy music. The noodling was a, and there was, you know, all the remains was popping off. Kill Switch on Earth. Like there was a lot of noodling. So for us to go out with corn, like in Australia and in Europe, they, even though people looked at it as new metal, it was really caveman still. It wasn't noodley. No noodles for me, dude.

I closed up. He's vehemently anti-noodle. But before we get to noodling. Keto when it comes to riffs. You said a word a few minutes ago, Jamie. You said the word satisfaction. Let's talk about objectively a record that is on the hardcore Mount Rushmore in terms of impact on the genre.

I got to come on this show more often. We're going to come and suck you off whenever you want. This is just facts, though. Like there's nobody that can listen to this and be like, satisfaction didn't change things. It changed things. Yeah. You're the biggest hardcore band ever.

Did you feel when recording these 14 songs? 14 songs, by the way. Wow. Jesus Christ. 14 songs, 25 minutes or something. Did you feel, did you feel like you did something?

Or were you like, all right, we just did our first LP? Let's hope it goes well. Or did you finish this thing and think, damn. Boys, boys,

we got something here. Yeah, but there was a lot of people. I like the demo better. That was a major thing. Oh, my God. And also there was, I don't see this. This is one of the craziest things.

And when I tell people this, they don't believe it. But this was a real thing. There was this movement of like, we, Lou, God rest of soul. I mean, I'll bring him up again. He would call him the persnickety kids. And I go, what do you mean? And he goes, look at them.

They're just fucking persnickety. They're just. they're like and I'm like what do you mean like like nerds like why do you even like this music like they're just nerds and so they would call victory like the McDonald's of hardcore and they would like boycott victory bands shows and it would be a thing and we were like and we were offended because we would go places and they would be like boycotting our show and we're we wanted to smack the people up we knew that wasn't we knew that wasn't going to be a good idea long term of Sure.

And these are kids that were just, they were just snitches and they were going to become cops and lawyers. You know, so like. And meanwhile, McDonald's fucking. And McDonald's the goat. So we're like, that's high praise.

Like, have you had a fillet of fish extra harder? Like, come on. I mean, this is, but. Happen to be on that team.

So we would be bombed. And then we, and sometimes we would be like, man, we could have been friends. Like we could. And so that really changed our perspective. Like, okay, now we really got to try to not have these people fuck our whole careers up. Because they're, they're looking to cause problems and instigate and get us to react. So instead of being reactive, we had to try to be, like, proactive to be pro when we got in, get to the show on time, which was hard,

keep a steady lineup, because people really liked the songs, they liked the record. Madball and Earth Crisis really helped us out. That was a big deal for us to get on the Mad Ball and Earth Crisis tour. But really, also the big, big one for us was entombed.

That was a big deal for us to get the entombed tour. Really? Is that the one that did it where you felt like things had changed, things were changing? Well, yeah, and also because you need that ultimate warrior moment, moment.

Like everybody, and there's many mini, like, I call them mini ultimate warrior moments. A lot of bands are afraid to have the ultimate warrior

moment where the other band puts you over. Got to get put over by Hogan eventually, you know? Yeah. It's just not going to happen. And you got to, and you got to,

like, ride with it, and you've got to sell it. Like, like Warrior sells it. Even though he's not... You're speaking of language, man. So,

so for us, getting a couple of shows, like having the promoters be like, yo, you got to go on above bloodlet. That was a big deal because there were people that were like, bloodlet is the next integrity or bloodlet is the next, you know,

big thing. How did bloodlet feel about you going on after them? I forget what shows we went on above them. I think probably Connecticut, probably a couple other ones, but the bloodlet was cool because they had brought us to Florida. We had gone down and played with them, and they were a great band.

still are a great band. So they got it. It's good business. It's exactly like wrestling. Right. And it's like, you know, you scratch my back.

I'll scratch yours. Like when we went like a goal of ours was to sell out Lamour. I used to go. I used to take the train down. I used to go to Brooklyn hand out flyers at those shows. Like if we were playing in the city, if we were playing at Ceebies or we were playing at, you know,

any of the venues, we would see like, okay, you're too metal for fucking ABC No Rio. We would try. We would try to get on shows. Yo, we did a tour with Voorhees. We played with Disassociate. We play with Final Conflict.

No, no, no. You're two metal. You're too metal for the hardcore matinee. Eventually, they, you know, once you start to draw. Yeah. Then. They need you. When they need you, things change.

Right. But then you also have to have somebody put you over, right? Right. So the Perenni brothers at Lamores, they said, and this is on satisfaction. and they said, you've got to get another ban with a name, you know, and then we'll give you the door, or we'll give you a guarantee,

or we'll give you a budget, and you pay that ban. So we got leeway, and that was a big thing. Like, you know, you headline over leeway, and just keep doing that, trying to keep creating new ultimate warrior moments to the point where you get to Roseland,

and it's like now at Roseland, the biggest venue in the city, the most legendary venue in the city, have biohazard open, have sick of it all open, and have suffocation open. Because they put the, they, you know, I put the ladder down for us.

We're having our moment. You want to do the same. But it's also great for you because they're putting you over. They're giving you the ultimate warrior moment. Sure. That's a beautiful thing. And I think we talk about wrestling pretty often on this show. And like a lot of our listeners don't really fuck with wrestling.

But like the thing is, is like that, this aspect of what you're talking about is what got, once I found that out about wrestling, what got me back into wrestling. When I, when I, when I, there's an heaven flow. There's this whole thing where they're working together. And it's a beautiful thing. It's awesome. And it's exactly true.

You got to be in tune. It's a moment-based business, wrestling and music. You got to be ready. When those moments come for those bands, it's, it's up to you to make it happen for them. And then they, so that they can do the same thing for you. What is, what's a, what's a modern band who, who's ultimate moment? moment, ultimate warrior moment you want to give to them? A modern band?

Or what's the last ultimate warrior moment you've provided to a newer band? And you were psyched to do. You're psyched to do the job. I mean, we wanted to do it for Parkway. We thought that was going to be a great look for them. It's too bad that the tour didn't pan out because we, we, that was going to be a world tour. Yeah. Where we were going to go to Australia, Europe.

And they, you know, they had always given us props and had always shown us a lot of love in, like, big, big magazines and on, and big interviews, big radio shows, like internationally, like, shouting us out as an influence. And so, you know, when they started to really have that rise and that come up, we're like, this is a great time to do it. where it benefits both of us and it's just too bad it just wasn't in the cards but it's not out of the question though but no I say

never say never to all this stuff but we're coming up on our 30th anniversary and we actually believe it or not on this last run that we did with Gate Creeper dying wish and body snatcher who were smaller bands at that time

like they've already all really all three have really grown in the last six months. Like Body Snatcher is selling out fucking thousand caps right now. Like they sold out the plays we played together. I think last night or the night before. So, you know, when bands like that, they start to have their moment. It just helps our case down the line when we have to sell a promoter or a group of promoters on a package that they don't feel is necessarily strong.

Once you do the numbers, then it's. all good. So like coming off that tour for perseverance, now we're going to, you know, next year is going to be the 30th anniversary. I don't know if we'll be able to provide that moment, but we would still want to have a stacked package like we did on the 25th anniversary with legendary bands. But yeah, I don't, I don't know who that would be. I thought you meant like vice versa, like, you know, the band to play above us. No, yeah, I did. Okay, yeah, so Parkway Parkway would be a would be a good one.

But I mean, who's on the come up that's more metal core? That one just seemed like that. Something like a knocked loose probably. Knocked loose would be a great one too. Yeah. A great example of bands that have longevity, apreet obviously being one, terror being the next that comes to mind.

And a couple years ago, terror was direct support for knock loose before knock loose really really popped too they they did exactly what we're talking about and that tour ended up being great for everyone across the board that's exactly yeah and i think knocked loose is a good example of a band that they went more extreme like they didn't even go they didn't even go um there's no melody softer or anything no melody nothing like that yeah and and that more bands should look at that and because that's even sort of a better litmus test

of what's out there, right? Because I don't know, I see the names and I see the logos. I don't know the music. Like I see this group, Spirit Box. People were sending me this for my Patreon show, my news show,

where we do a little bit of metal news. Like they dropped off some tour. But I had played them on my show and watched the video and the girl is like very charismatic, really likable good singer yes and

they popped off crazy hard over COVID and there's some like hard riffs and like some bounce and some groove like even kind of like there's some stuff that kind of reminded me a corn not a lot like more gentie I don't even know how to describe it but sure a band like that

needs the moment from say like a corn or a death test and people would go why they have their own thing because you don't understand this generational thing and when people fall off, they look at that on paper and they go, I wish I was at that show. It doesn't matter if they're smoking corn or drawing half the crowd and it's leaving. It's still great for everybody because it's high tide raises all ships. Absolutely. The satisfaction record release is something that has come up on hard lore a few times.

Really? And it's like a thing that people are scared to talk about. like an infinitely Rowling Legendarily violent event Is there anything specifically you remember about the satisfaction record release

that you can tell us What would you say that people are scared to talk about it Is it because This I don't know I can't tell you

I wish I wasn't there November 11th 19 You could tell me about it You know what There was stuff You know how I said Like the

He would call him Like the personicity kids that exists now but bigger than ever and they don't they would look at that show as just a toxic masculinity fest sure and they would look at they would look down on it and they would go just like we said this is what we don't want to be at the Fugazi show

they would look at it we don't want to be that so there might be people that just are like the glory days of talking about that stuff they might feel doesn't reflect well on them in this current climate. I don't give a fuck because it was fun. Yeah, some people, it wasn't fun. Jamie, we love violence.

We are on, we're all on the same team here. We're for violence. So if you have a, if you're something you remember where you're like, yo, this dude killed this dude, I'm a psyched. No, I mean, it just, it just. Look, the culture, whatever the current culture is, they're very, they're very hesitant to be pro security. Because there's almost this view of like security or like, you're like one step away from being a CEO or being a cop.

Yeah. Right. And in hardcore, that's so prevalent because that like is the case. like in the smaller like borderline DIY venue that's probably still owned by Live Nation like the security don't get it they don't understand that the people

moshing are kind of on the same page while they're being shit out of each other especially now in the in the metal world like there's the viral video of like Acacia Strait playing and the security guy being like and that's kind of more what it's like

in like a normal venue and that's cool yeah I agree yeah It should be that way. Catch the people dive and put them down, let them get back in. Yeah. Don't rough them up.

There's no, there's no need for that. But also every situation is different. And every variable that comes into play is different. And every city is different. And every venue is different. And people want to just generalize and be right. And that's probably why there's reservations about talking about shows like that. Because if you, if you say it from the viewer,

of the security, now all of a sudden you're a sympathizer with that. But if you say it of the view of the wild-ass band dude and the entourage, let's hear it. You know, my thinking is, especially during that time, we had done so many other shows and packed out so many other venues locally. there was no reason to have any of this nonsense. It could have all been avoided. But you're also, what was the thing that pissed everybody off when it was like,

there's good people on both sides? Oh, God. Right? Very fine people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. On those eyes. Insane. You know, you just sound like.

a total idiot saying that, but there was like a point. People go, oh, you're doing the middle, you're playing the middle or whatever. But no, we've done both. I've been a promoter. And I, and by the contract, I had to have security or otherwise the band wouldn't play. In that case, it was put on us very last minute. And there was multiple conversations had of like, this is going to end badly. You can do whatever you want. But trust me, going to end badly.

There's hundreds of people who are ready to beat the shit out of each other. Who hate you? And the only unification is the band and hating you. Well, and also it's like at that time, say the cops did come and people actually got detained or actually got arrested. No one's saying shit. Yeah. And it was guaranteed.

It was like that collective consciousness. Nobody was going to say shit. So even then, it's going to be your word against whoever gets detained or get. Obviously, that's, you know, it was, that was well avoided. Yeah. There was fallout. There was calls. There was other things.

After the fact, nobody knows nothing. What are you going to do? Okay. I think we might have even, I don't think we ever went back and played, but I might have promoted another show at some point there. Or that could have been the end of it. I don't know.

There was a lot of, also there's a lot of these guys that they thought they brought the crowd. At the satisfaction record release? No, at every show. at every venue. So there is these guys that would own the venue or that would promote like the cover bands and then they would go, oh, I could call this booking agent. No, no, they don't get that.

It's an established, like they didn't get that. We're mailing out flyers to fucking 1,200 people. I'm really good at fucking shows. Like, they wouldn't get like we would literally mail out 1,200 fucking flyers. Like we would go to the-one that what killed CBGBs essentially is like hardcore kept it alive. and then they kind of were just like, now we're going to do some,

some jazz nights and shit. And then the hardcore matinees ceasing, wouldn't that have had a huge, like, CBGB's kind of not fucking with hardcore anymore. Wouldn't that have killed it? I think, I think there was,

you know what? There's a movie. There's a, a movie about CBGBs. They don't talk about a single fucking hardcore man. Yeah, Dead Boys is like the only thing. No, yeah, that, that CBGV's movie is,

the biggest piece of shit in cinema. That's terrible. That I would have to ask Drew Stone. You guys should really have Drew Stone on this show if you haven't yet. He has a great podcast and he would know more. But I was, I played one of the last shows at CB's. And I remember they were saying like rent was going to be raised. or the building was going to be sold

or a combination of both like maybe until the building was sold they were going to try to they were going to try to renew the lease but then the lease was going to be upped or something and then it just became unmanageable I'd have to ask Drew he would probably know

but I remember thinking like someone should step in and buy this like where's all these rockers that wear the fucking CB shirts like where's the green day yeah like I don't want to put anybody on the spot but like, yo, like, where's like Iggy Pop? Like, where's fucking Axel Rose? Like, who made this movie?

Where are they? Yeah, where are they? Jesus. That's a very good point. I just got those, um, those negative night bootlegs that I bought. Speaking of infamous, you know, Lamar, Lamar shows. The carnivore, sheer terror, biohazard,

Lamar show shirts. I just got today. That's amazing. I love talking about like these infamous, just like, oh, yeah, that was, that was a bad one. So see, it fits right in with the. We knew then, especially trying to be in a professional band, we knew that there was, tragedy was avoided and that we got lucky and that you, there was kind of like a nine lives

thing where it was going to eventually you knew the more, it's just variables, like it's just math. You go from having 300 to 800, now you got 1,200. and some of these places it's not safe, the capacities, you're oversold. And if the promoter's telling you at 600, there's 1,200 in, you know, especially with some of these sketchier clubs. Yeah. And then, you know, we had, remember what happened at Lomor at Life of Agony.

That was a big deal. That made it onto like the news. Like that was, and even some of the stuff was suicidal. It had like the ban in L.A. Like that made it onto our news. That even made national news. Yeah. Yeah.

And so when shit started to get like that, we thought, okay, it was cool in theory. It was cool for the story. In light, it wasn't cool. Sorry, I'm sorry to interrupt you. What happened with Life of Agony at Lemore? I don't know this one. Somebody died.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's never cool. Like, you know, like there's no like, oh, that was a rough one. That's the one line that you don't want to cross. But other than that, Christ, pardon this interruption.

It's Manscape time. Bo, tell them what we got. We got the all new weed whacker. This bad boy, let me show you guys something. I got them both. Here's the old one.

Listen to this. Okay. Here's the new one. Oh. You kidding me? That's going to whack the fuck out of you. It's great. You can use it wet.

or dry, so in the shower or not. It's got replaceable heads, so every couple months you can be a clean little boy. And that's for like ears, nose and whatever? Not, no other holes, I don't think. I think it's just ears and nose. I'll find out. I'll love in the foot duster lately. The foot duster rocks, right?

I got some nasty dogs that are barking, and this silences them a little bit. A little bit. It puts a little muzzle on. Crop revivers, my OG. This is like my, I'm not leaving the house. without this basically. Tell them how you use that. Like what is your...

If I'm working out, I don't want anybody to smell me. Of course. And I come with a funk. I'm sorry. This eliminates the funk. It eliminates the funk. I also recently got the body wash,

which is in my shower, so I don't have it right here. But it smells very nice. Take a shower live on the... Should I take a shower? Yeah. All right. Give me a second.

All right. And yeah, I'm very... It's like we said in the beginning. We tried some Manskid stuff, and we were like, yeah, this stuff is good. Let's see what we can do with them. Every product that I've tried, I've been like, oh, this rocks. Yeah, code hardlore 20% off, free shipping.

You could get all of it too. You should. You should. Because it helps us. Helps us a lot. I would, woo. It's also Whatnot time, Bo. Yes.

And more so than ever. Yes. Because we finally have a date booked for the first ever Hardlore What Friday, March 24th. The 24th. It's going to be the only place in the world you can buy this. It's going to be... Oh, that's a good point. We're going to have some OG harm's way stuff,

some OG, God's hate, switching tongues, all of our bands, many other bands that... You know, there's going to be lore for every single item that we've got on there. If you're a medium, if you wear a size medium, brother, I got you. Oh, you're going to be rich with stuff. So join us on whatnot.

Also, for Jasta, we want to plug Milwaukee Metal Fest, baby. It's back Friday, May 26, to the 28th. Yeah, that's the weekend. You got some lineup heavy hitters for them. Go ahead and just give them. Crazy fucking lineup. Bile has her first show back. Dark Angel, Napalm death, dying fetus the best man ever.

Crowbar, Revenge, C.O.C. Anthrax, Suicidal, Black Dahlia, Chattosphal, Fiatuary, Fear Factory. Lamb of God, Machine Head, After the Burial, the Halo Effect. Terror, fucking... Game creeper. Goathoor? Frozen Soul. Undead. Dying wish. Friends of the show, many friends of the show. Lots of friends.

We want to give away two free tickets right now. Colin had a good idea. I do. So if you're seeing this, you might be the first one to do it. So the first person that tweets us a video of them screaming for five seconds absolutely as loud as they can. As large as you can. We'll win two free tickets to this.

We will announce. the winner scream as loud as you can for example do something like that for five seconds for five seconds no bullshit now yeah i want to see four three i want five full seconds of loud screaming to show that you belong at milwaukee medal fest yeah um that's it for that's it's it for our ads enjoy that's this legendary episode with josta go hard do you see see i like it's it's a little different now you obviously hate breed is the biggest hardcore band in the world you're playing these massive arenas and big shows and stuff. I see

violence as like the ultimate sign of respect. When playing this inherently violent music, that's the ultimate sign that I've done my job. You know? It's like this, this, this riff was so hard that you're beating the shit out of that guy.

Thank you. That's awesome. Do you see that as respect or are you bummed? Like now? it depends I think in whenever I've had like um

outbursts or I've had to go into the crowd and um grab somebody or yell at somebody or whatever I can see I'm not stupid like I know when there's punk punk shit being happening you know I think it was Vermont um you know watching this kid like target the smallest

weakest kid like multiple times. Yeah, that's insane. I think it was Vermont. You know, you know by by approaching them, you know you're opening a door where there is no learning experience to be had. They're going to double down. They're so deep in this hole, this punk, just shitty hole

that they're not going to go, hey man I was wrong sorry they're gonna go fuck you it's on next time I see you all this fake bullshit nonsense so you know what you're getting into that's the type of shit where I go this is not what I was intending with the music sometimes that sorts itself out that's there's some natural selection and hardcore now that's that's that's sort of stuff out every time that's absolutely what how it should be yeah absolutely but uh but it's different now because there's accountability and then everybody's got phones and then it's actually like really like um it's it's kind of like i dare i say it's normal to like snitch on that type of behavior or

whatever and you don't they don't even know that they're doing it by recording this shit it's right stop recording fights like i'm so glad that we're not like i'm so glad we're past that like i'm so glad we're not like the the the exposure to the normies Like whenever I see these clips And then Normies are seeing it And they're losing their mind Or it's becoming viral I'm so glad it's not us

Mind force that like the gods hate dive Those are all things that like Oh by the way Seas and he's like what the fuck By the way I wanted to debut When is this gonna air? This Thursday All right I wanted to debut our new shirt on this show

I think I could just send it to you And you can send it to me here it is look at this shirt oh well I'm dude yes yes incredible reorders on 3rds on 3rds on 3rds when this airs martyrs store.net get your preorder in and just hit me up whoever the photographer is it's Ramon from Notfest all right so you're good we'll make sure we hit you off with a check don't don't get crazy all right Dude, unbelievable. No way.

Make sure the photographer gets a check. And if the photographer wants to send me the high-res, we'll make the shirt look even nicer. But I did think it was funny with the low. And I love the phone. Yeah. Right here. Showing exactly what it's very meta. Jamie, we're honored.

Does we're honored? Does Brody know this? No, I just sent it to the- Well, this is one of the best modern show photos. it scientifically is and you know we we've done the hate breed logo we've done God's saying

the hate breed logo we covered the hole under the knife 7 inch I think I think you you deserve this one and you and you guys even did the mistake like the where the song where you did that actually like the version where it gets cut off which was hard

we did we we were true to the 7th everybody was like where's not one truth and we're like motherfucker not on the seven inch. It's filled. I think the measure gets cut off

because of the mastering or whatever. It does, yeah. Yes, it was very conscious. I'm glad I'm glad we're going to talk about this. Shout out to Wayne. Wayne is the one who really, he noticed that. Thanks, Wayne. Wayne's always got my back, man.

Let's let's talk about now the thing that I was mistaken about, the time in between. How do you follow up satisfaction? And was there pressure or was there so much time that you were writing and doing your market research in your brain, you know? Well, yeah, without the internet, it was, well, it was there, but it was, we didn't know about it. We were just here. Like, we would go to Richmond and we're like, man, these motherfuckers in Richmond, they got money.

Like, they could afford a computer. And they're telling us what they're saying on the computer. And it was like mind boggling to us. Like, they would tell us, like, what was, and we're like, where do you see this? Like, what is this? Like, we didn't get it. And they would say that, you know, we sold out. We're like, but the record's not out.

Like, we're not, what do you mean? Like, they're going to be. Because you signed, had you already signed a universal at the time? I don't even know. I just remember thinking, oh, no, it was because we did the Danzig tour. That was like a big no-no because. Wow. Really?

It was, it was, it wasn't even that much of a ticket. Like, I want to say the tickets were 18 bucks. Then that was double or even maybe triple than some of the. shows that we were doing. So I could see that complaint, but we were like, yo, the band is called Hape Reader. You know, it's Danzig. He wrote Mother. He wants to take us out.

Like, we're not getting it. We're getting the tour because he wants us to do the tour. Like, that's pretty cool. We had heard horror stories about him. Yeah. But he chose us and he was taking like six feet under. And he was going to put us on the Sam Hain Danzig tour. Is he cool?

He was always cool to us. us. And rest and peace, Todd youth. Todd would let us say at his hotel room if they were leaving. Joey C. Joey C was in the band, you know, who's in Circle Jerks and was in Queens of the Stone Age. Like the whole band was cool. Lazy was cool. Like, we had a good time on the

tour. And and we had to, like, there was nights where we had to help dancing out. That was when we saw like, oh, this is when your whole fan base is persnickety. Like a lot of the, like, we were like, this is so weird. They're here, but they don't like him or like they're he they paid the money to get in the show but they're like heckling him

like it was weird did they not like the new whatever new album was or what i don't know it was there would be like issues where that was when i first got the whole mental illness and the stalking thing and i was like oh now i get it why dude just goes to the bus or goes to because there would be times where they their tour manager shout out to gary uh coach we would call him he'd be like boys can you go out and just make sure the shit's cool and this this dude needs to get punched in the face. This dude needs to just push this full. And we would go out there and try to just make sure like these fans, you know, weren't going to do something crazy. Sean Martin was running Danzig protection for the. No, just, just looking out. Like,

you know what I mean? Like just, just, just in case. I can, I can hear Sean being like, yeah, whatever, dude. I don't give a fuck. It's fucking dancing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Plus we're like, why are people doing this? Like, this is weird. So that you started. It's so bizarre. It was, that was a really good time to see haters in real life and just witness it and witness human behavior and go, all right.

Yeah, this is what you don't want to be. This is what you don't want. You don't want to be fixated on someone and go to their show and bother that. Like, you don't want to do this. Like, use this as an example. That's mental illness for sure. So Danzig tour being a turning point. And so 97 to 2002 was satisfaction of perseverance.

But also the rollover. You see the rollover. That was important because a lot of these kids, we would have people from older bands go, like, don't worry about it. Like the kids that are hating on you, they're not going to be around in two years. And they weren't. The real people stay around.

The real fans, like, stay around and support. And Soulfly, that was a big one, too. Soulfly neurosis. and that was only a year after that was 98 right that was really big because that was the trial by fire of like oh you got to match the prices you got to do this you got to do that you know

and it was and that was another one where it was like Max you know he had like the stalkery kind of thing going on too like people you go wow these are your fans but they but they're acting weird and they're saying shit out of the side of their neck and like yeah um yeah that was a learning experience and i know everything is cool now like whatever we went through it's all water

under the bridge i i said what i had to say back then because i thought it was weird that uh you know max was just going straight to the bus still now yeah but now i you i get it like yeah you're your sobriety is on the line your life is on the line you know what i mean i mean same thing same thing with dying bag that guy was there and was saying i'll be back and i'll kill everybody he was there at Bogart's and multiple people tried to get him out of the venue and couldn't and this guy had like superhuman strength

and JC I think he got him out he put him in like an old maplata and like dragging him down like he got him in some sort of jiu jitsu move but he didn't he didn't go unconscious this guy and that was the guy who ended up coming back and killing him so

unreal that all was like all right yeah you got it this whole business has to change people don't get it because they just see their little scene and they're people that they know

and they want to generalize but you really can't you don't know until you've been there and you've seen it and you see the the real dark side to that shit that was rise of brutality too so that was another one where

we followed up quickly because again we knew that changing of the guard was coming. Dude, one year. How'd you do that? That's crazy. I want to stick on perseverance for a bit, but how'd you do that? After five years between. We didn't have a choice. We just had to because the weight was so long in between

and that that turnover was about to happen and we knew we had gotten a call and it was like Slayer's going to give you the like basically the ultimate warrior moment. Yeah. Oh, fuck. And it was like it's gonna the tour's gonna be in october it's gonna be the yager tour and yager's gonna uh cut a check too and they're gonna market it so you had to have this record ready yeah and

and we had already done some stuff so it was and it was really good and that was a big thing was like when we had heard the bands that said no we were like are they fucking crazy like go out there and look to people in the eye and fucking get it done but some people at that time it still scary. I think also because on Diabolis, they had taken clutch and tried some different things, taken system of a down. And those bands did get a little bit

of, I don't want to say a bad reaction, but like enough resistance where... Then they popped over, you know? Eventually. Yeah. But like Musugah and Sick of It All, I went to that show because I was like, I'm going to go and flyer the fucking show.

We were bummed because Sick of it got it over us but we're like hey if you're going to lose the tour to anybody you might as well lose it to one of the goats you know who kicked down doors for us yeah but they had a hard time it was not like it was not the reaction that i expected but again it's like okay i can kind of see what we need to do to avoid the same type of reaction and then that was the yager tour yeah yeah and then once we got it we were like, finally we got it. And then they took us all over the world. Then that even bled into 05, right?

Because we did unholy alliance. But they had the ultimate warrior moment. They gave Slip not the ultimate warrior moment. So we got to- Took you guys a ton, right? At that time? Yeah. And that really helped our case.

Them taking us in 2000 and getting us on OzFest, that really helped our case with Slayer. Wow. Because that was, those were building blocks. this show is a is a gift from slip no basically yeah yeah we can't say it so slipnot and slayer because and soulfly because if you think about soulfly really popped off before slip not and yeah slip not really rode that wave and really surpassed all those new metal bands surpassed limp biscuits surpassed corn surpassed by being way harder than than all yes way more and incorporating blast beats

and then also having the cred. Like they were at the show. They were front row singing empty promises. They were at Milwaukee Metal Fest. They were doing other things. But also, you know, tattoo the earth, even though it was a festival, by them partnering with Slayer and then also showing that they could do all these numbers in these non-traditional venues. It just helped everybody the next two summers. Because by that point, we knew.

we could ride it another two years into getting perseverance out. We just had to survive another summer, stay above water. And then when they, you know, when we, when Musuga and us were up for the second stage, it was whoever, you know, sold more records was going to get like the slot right before down. And then I think we ended up selling a little bit more. And then we got the slot right before down. And you got to, you got the, this is, this is rise of brutality or perseverance? Well, this was perseverance.

This was 2002. But so I don't think without that reaction at Ozfest 2002. And admittedly, it was the perfect slot, right? Because down probably got paid way more money to close that stage. They had to bear the brunt of people heading towards the main stage. And then with Musuga being, you know, the type of band that they are. It's more thinking man's metal.

It's different time signatures. And they're one of the greatest ever to do it. But putting us in between those two bands that are just a totally different vibe, it just added to this reaction of hard pitting, everybody, you know, getting the logo tattooed, buying the merch, really creating this groundswell. But it then became a case for us to, you know, get those Slayer tours. and not lose it to you know bands that were you know comparable

at the time you worked you busted your ass to the point where Slayer had to have you rather than fighting for well we had heard like that was a big deal like we had heard like oh Slayer played Saul Lake my buddy called me from Saul Lake and was like dude fucking Slayer was here last night they were wearing your shirt Carrie Kim was wearing your shirt Hanaman had a sticker on your guitar on his guitar like it was a big deal but that was still in the

I mean yeah I had an email but I didn't like check it. It was like free. It came with a disc. Like it came in the mail. AOL. Yeah. It was like he dialed it up. Like my stepmom was like showing me how to work it. They Fedaxed me a picture of like him on stage with the shirt. I was like, I guess victory had sent him

the shirt or whatever. So it was like luck meeting preparedness. It was like just grind it out, grind it out. And then, you know, have them give you the cosign, which every band needs. absolutely

was getting off victory a reason behind perseverance taking so long yes yeah because they had to buy us out of the contract and that took forever and there was other shit like and it just goes you know I know I've been saying it for years and years and it's like this is why you have to have a good attorney

you never want to sign deals in perpetuity you never want to sign away you're publishing you never want to sign. Like, I don't think any of these contracts should even be longer than five years. Agreed. Because Victory didn't have any hand in getting us on these tours. And, you know, all those bands, they subsequently signed. They signed with our money.

Yes. So. And they signed, like, it was, Scott would tell us about when Victory signed buried alive. saying like he was unhappy Tony was unhappy with the mix because it didn't sound like satisfaction yeah see he didn't like our he didn't like our record because we didn't do gang vocals we were like no you already got strife like we're just doing our own thing like we're not gonna and um and he was like you got to have the gang vocals and we're like no it's it's got to be different and we love strife i still love strife but they had that

You got not one truth. They got one truth. Which one is it? You know? Yeah. I go with not one truth. Personally. See, that line we had before they had one truth.

Yeah, it was on your demo. It was something, but it was something like that had to do with the Hieronymus Bosch artwork. I forget it was like, Horonis Bosch, I think it's been in the public domain for, I don't know, 300 years. and that was the thing I learned about. I was like, oh, you could use the, you could use this art that's in the public domain.

It's all ours, dude. Any military imagery, public domain. But there was, like, articles written about him. Like, this is back in the microfeasian in the library days. Oh, wow. And so there would be captions to the paintings, or there would be, like, art critics talking about the paintings and what,

inspired the paintings or I forget and I just remembered I wrote that down out of a um it was like yeah so you saw one truth on some painting and you were like that's no no the quote was there is not one truth oh cast into stone only lies cast into flames and it was it was accompanying this um painting it was like a hieronymus botch bach like a painting and I said to the screen printer yo I want to use this on a shirt it was a shirt before it was a song just like destroy everybody wow

like you said that's horse in front of the cart right there or other way around but you know what I mean it was like it was like some anti-biblical shit or something and so I was using that as like the hook you know you're like oh you got to have a hook there was multiple people who were who were purveyors of the hook

early on. God, I love a hook, dude. John Popper. Oh, yeah. Freeop, Johnny Popp. You go pre-op. Pre-op, Johnny Pop is the best. He can go.

Why? Is all perseverance tune down to see? Yeah. Was that a conscious decision for that record? Or is satisfaction C? Sure.

It's a standard for sure, right? The tuning. is a weird thing. That again goes back to the demo because the demo I think is slightly out of tune. Just tuned to itself. Like whatever I'm in this. Right. Pentarian? Right.

Yeah. Yeah, right. They used to call it Texas tuning or whatever. Yeah. A4.45. The, once you get in, you have to have to have a real tuner and you have to put a battery in it or whatever you got to plug it in. Like then the shit changes. I just left that to the guitar players. Like even now. Um, you know, I, I prefer, I actually prefer the higher tunings now.

Yeah. Hey man. Metallica. And even Slayer, there are only what. Slayer. Yeah. Look at municipal. When they started popping off, I felt like, yeah, if you're coming up with hooks, if

you're coming up with hard riffs and hooks in standard tuning, like you're, you're like, it's a show off. Like, you're like, I don't need to be tuned to queue. Like, that is the thing. I mean, if, if, if you're really. if it's hard in E standard it's objectively hard. If you don't have to tune it down for it

for me to spin cake, you've done something. Yeah. I mean, dude, I'm from the era where like people were bummed on Wolverine Blues. They were bombed on heartwork. And you go, are you out of your mind? That's crazy. What is wrong with you? But that was the thing.

It was like, there's no grind. Like listen to necroticism. Listen to, you know, and you're like, oh, they're coming with hooks. They're coming with hits. Like this is a hard. I got a problem with straight up. We would do, we would do that on our Jostas shows like on our Jost and Friends tour. We would do that.

We would fucking come out to that. And I would intro the band. People would be like, what is he doing? What, when did you have the idea to start Rise of Rurality with the Perseverance outro? This is probably Collins like, favorite thing. This shaped my brain, the way that I look at music.

I perceived music differently when I heard the resultality start. I was like, wait, I've heard this. Yeah, wait. So there was a, who did it? Shit, actually, it might have been bad brains. Did bad brains do it? I against I.

Somebody else had done it. Now I'm going to fuck it up. You might have to just come. We might have to put this in the show notes. Because I don't I don't want to Don't they re-record I can't-Sty on quickness

They did it on quickness And Igen-Sye for sure It's the I-G-G-Sai intro And I remember this because Mackey plays it Fucking wild Mackey's like Somebody had a closer Somebody had like a closer outro

That went into the opener On the next album I got to figure it out I want to make sure I give them the props It doesn't look like it's bad words at least I'm shit I'm not sure then

damn it it's gonna bother me too because it's right on the tip of my tongue I forget who it was but I remember I remember hearing it and going oh my God that's fucking genius

and then I think it was a quick follow-up too I mean the eye against eye intro is on quickness so that could be what you're thinking about that I know for a fact is it

yes because Mackey plays it way crazier than it than it is on a eye and size very concise on and like two it sounds like it's to a click track quickness there's not a fucking chance

that is too much right right okay it could have been them and I think it's somebody else somebody John Thompson in the chat says doesn't bull throw also do the same thing and they might have been it might have been it might have been

the Senate Taf intro is 10 different times then right and they always put it in front of like the best song the song it's so sick let me ask you a crazy question Jamie you have a favorite rift

you've ever ripped off just the famous ones you know like when tuned that was our big thing like that was like because when we got the tour you know we were like oh my god you know because back then you would get an

earworm even if it wasn't like on purpose you're jamming it and then someone would be like oh shit we got to change it. But then you change it so that it's not a direct riff or not a direct rip but when they gave us the cosine that was like the ultimate honor. Rest of

peace LG just past two years since we lost LG. But that's got to be my favorite one. But also was demon Puritan? No. No, we

did like we would take like a snippet like just a turn because I don't know if you ever heard the thing where we would say like the 203 we would use the area code because I didn't know like oh this is C or this is D or this is F

I would just do the fret I mean I'm the same way I say that so if a riff similar I'm like all right change up the turn you go all right give me like a 310 give me a fucking give me a give me a Maryland give me a Baltimore like a or give me a Western Mass, like a 413.

Chicago's 3.1, too. I've used an 818 a couple of times. Yeah. The Kings of the Black Throne wrestling song is 818, and that's why I did that. I say that myself and Connecticut residents have 0134 flowing through our vein. That's our blood type.

There you go. That's a great turn. It's in yours. Let me tell you. You might have put it in mine personally. It's a great one. I like a 7-1. I like a 7-1-5 or like a fucking 7-0-5.

7-0 is... That's maybe the greatest hack there ever was. 0-7-0-7. Yeah. They'll never know. You're duping them with that one. And that's the same thing. What does your dad say?

When you go to the 6? Colin, what's your dad saying? My dad says three chords, great song. Two chords, masterpiece. Yes. And that's a great. The 0 and the 7? One chord.

One core. There's the song. Look at Orgasmatron. Yeah, what is that? One? What's the blood for blotts? Waiting for the moment is two notes, I think. Other than the B at,

na, na, na, na, na, na. It's just da-d-d-dun-dun-dun-dun-da-da-da-da. And that's all. That's a good one. When we toured with Damage Plan, And we were in Des Moines and Dime was like, man, man, fucking perseverance is so hard. He's like, did you all, did you all like, you know, maybe like, did you get that like from the end of domination?

And like, what was like, like, how did you fall on like that pattern? And I was like, I was just trying to jam some shit like helmet meantime. And he was like, me too. And so like we both. Wow. We both owed, um, helmet a sandwich. Dan, nah, nah, nah. But there was, there was a lot.

of bands that, I mean, there was even bands that had fallen on to that kind of like the Earth Crisis, especially, I had told, I even said to Dime, like, you ever hear Earth Crisis Firestorm is basically like rain and blood, but just without the fucking lick, like, and it's- You put Dimebag Daryl onto Firestorm? He hadn't heard them, but he had a great, like, he was the one who really, like, made me think, like, yeah, you got to have a playlist before you go out. you really got to get pumped up. Like I used to always get stressed out because I would be dealing with the guests or I'd be dealing with like, you know, all these dudes who showed up who want to be on the guest list and then they want to be in the dressing room.

That was the first time where I was like, oh, wow, they have it locked down where they're just vibing so they could go out and have a great show. And I would go in there while they were vibing and they would have everything from like, because we really bonded on Halford Resurrection. Because I got that fucking cassette single. and at Phoenix Records, shout it to Phoenix Records and Waterbury. I got that cassette single, and I was like, whoa, Halford is going hard.

Like, that's what I'm talking about. Like, don't, like, you should just go harder. You shouldn't try to go more commercial. Always go harder. Just go harder. It's a recipe for success. And Halford, so, and then he showed, so I heard him playing Resurrection,

and I bust in there. I'm like, oh, my God, I fucking love this record. And he shows me the Halford tattoo. do. And then we started talking about prong. I was like, oh, snap your finger, snap your neck. We talked about helmet. We talked about obviously like, you know,

biohazard, machine head. Like all the bands that they took on tour are Sepultero. I love it. I love it. I love it. I got something for you. When we toured with Cannibal Corpse, Hate Eternal was direct. And Eric Grutan of Morbentel,

Hayt Eternal, now Cannibal Corpse, and recorded all their fucking shit, said that when Perseverance came out, he listened to it every day for two years. Wow. Dude, that's awesome. That's high praise coming from the master. Straight up.

When we do the documentary, we got to get him in it. Him and Ben Falgoo from Goathorn, So in the Green, like Ben broke his legs and I thought he wasn't going to walk again. And he said he listened to the record. I was like, dude, this is like, you've got to say this in our documentary and make us look cool. I'm like, this is fucking awesome. Perseverance is basically auditory DDP yoga.

that's that that's awesome. Dude, yeah. Every time was like, yeah, man, I fucking hate breed, man. Like he was, he was, that was what we bonded over because like, us and Hayd Eternal would share green rooms often on that tour. And it was just like, oh, you guys are in the hardcore, are you into hate breed? We were like, yeah. And that was where it went, you know.

That's great. He's the best. He's the best. We took Haiti Eternal on Rise of Root. That was a big thing. You know, we wanted to, because a lot of, we had gotten away from that for a couple of years of trying to unite the scenes, but that was a lot of the bands that we had come up playing with. Like, we played, you know, we would open for suffocation or we would play with internal bleeding,

play with, um, a lot of the death metal bands. And I would book a lot of the death metal shows, too. So when we got to take out, we wanted to do a half hardcore half death metal bill. So we did terror, madball, sefalocarnished, Haiti, Eternal. And that was a great tour. We had an amazing time. Yeah, Rutan is a legend. He's the best.

I really hope that for next year, we tried really hard to get Haiti Turnal on Milwaukee Metal Fest. And I have notes here. I have notes here. I got to plug that. Original biohazard lineup for a show back. Friday, May 26, Milwaukee Metal Fest. Get your tickets.

And you want to send us like an ad copy thing? And we'll put it in with the ads in the middle of the episode. Sure, yeah. And we'll give you some tickets to give away and stuff too. Oh, that'd be huge. Dude, that crushes me. It's an hour and a half away from Chicago. Our dear friend, both of us,

our dear friend is getting married that weekend. Yeah, because we tried. I thought, like, Tim had reached out to your guys. Yeah, we didn't get anything. Probably would have missed a winner. Sorry, Andrew. I have a new segment I want to try today, Jamie, if that's okay with you.

Yeah. This segment is called, how the fuck did you write that? You know the song Doomsayer? Yes, there's a video. How the fuck did you write that? There's a video. You can pull it up and share it on YouTube. About how you wrote Doomsayer? Yep.

I was jamming with Chris from Poison in the Well. Because I said, dude, I got this fucking riff. And I remember I tried to show it to Sean, like maybe in the back lounge on that tour. or so I and I and I had the um the pre-course oh I was that was when we were like oh we got to have a bridge like it was like you can't just have riff chorus riff chorus riff course breakdown you got to have different arrangements you got to have a bridge or you got to what did you what was the riff you had that you started let's see someone want to pull up the video I'll find it um you could just do um I think you could just do Josta doomsayer someone sent me

the video and I was like who posted this it might have been it had to have been chris from poison the well or someone did you have the breakdown section first is that what you had because that is that's in my top three and this is we can segue into that for you top three spin kick riffs of all time is doomsay what do I owe you for all this I mean this is you're this is it you're this is it by coming on you this is it this is a Oh, wait, Jamie Heypreid writing and playing Doomsayer in 2002. Yeah. There was like video.

Can you share that video? Of course, of course. Yeah, we can, I'll pop it in now. Here it is. Here's Jamie writing, doomsayer. I'll put it in the chat for everybody. Wasn't that incredible? We enjoyed that so much watching that.

Dude, you know what's funny about that segment, Colin? The first note I have on this for this episode is the voice, comma how how do you and Colin I think you tweeted about it when you guys tour together

oh you you summon you summon the satisfaction satisfaction voice like on a way that tour now I was having a really rough time on that tour

I had gone and got scoped before that because I was on this like hot sauce kick for months and whenever I used to do a thing where when I would get a check

or I would get like something would happen I would have a little money And I, it would, like, old me would come out. And I would be like, okay, you got to get like, it's, it's that feast or famine, like, mentality was like, oh, yeah, you got to, like, get fat. You got to eat. You got to, like, be ready for the winter because the famine is going to come and you want to be prepared for the famine.

Now, it's not how you're supposed to live your life. You're not supposed to know. But right before that tour, I was freaking out, stressed out. And I was, like, having, like, oh, I'm going to go to get scoped. and they're going to say, I got throat cancer or whatever. I was just freaking out. When I went there, the guy was like, you have all this erosion. You got to stop eating all this spicy food.

You got to like sleep on this pillow. You got to stop with the coffee. And I really, I've never been so depressed in my life. As that tour we did? Trying to give up coffee right before that tour. Oh, yeah. And I've heard it's brutal. I won't do it.

I'd rather burn it out. Oh, it is, it's really bad. I'm weaning myself down now and it's really bad. Why have a worse life? No, but, but so when you guys, someone else had said to me on that tour, like, was that with code orange? Yeah, yeah, it was dying fetus. The first one was code orange. Maybe we did too.

We did satisfaction first and then it was perseverance. Okay, so someone else had said it. me like, oh, you, you switch your voice over that. I go, no, that's just compensating for trying to be able to do the hour plus set and going easier. And so that tone on satisfaction is because I needed to get through the record. I only had X amount of days. That's crazy to do it. And I didn't want to be totally blown out. So it's like, it's just like dialing it back a little bit. That's why I was blown away when people said, oh, I like the vocals better. Dude, it never sounded like you were dialing my back.

It sounded like you were doing Josta. Yeah. Like 97 Josta. Wow. Well. Speaking of doing. I got, I think I got better on this last run because I weaned.

I stopped with the coffee at like 11. I stopped at like three cups. Then nothing acidic. Okay. Right. Then I would do the, the Arnica. I know people are tired of me talking about Arnica,

but shout out to Ann Wilson. She told me about the Arnica just helps with the inflammation. what what what what's kind of funny and I don't know if this is still the case and hardcore is like bands will do 15 minutes sets 20 minutes sets especially on festivals yeah oh yeah so when you're going hard for 15 minutes that's easy yeah but when you got to do a 75 minutes or 90 minutes and you got to do it multiple nights in a row and you're not 20 or you're not 25 you're not 30, you end up having a go to see an ENT and they go, yo, what are you doing?

Are you fucking crazy? Like, this is crazy. So right before that, they put me on the shit. I'm off of it now. I don't even want to say the name of it because I've heard it causes like people, bile duct problems and stomach acid problems. And I had heard of people trying to get off this drug. And it's just a, it's like a, I guess it's like a proton pump inhibitor or something

where it just stops the production of the acid and it throws your whole body chemistry off. We don't need that. I don't know. Yeah, but actually Jesse from KillSwitch was telling me about it. Like, oh, my God, so getting off that and getting off the caffeine

was a challenge, and I did everything, like I did the licorice, I did all the natural shit. DGL is one you could look up. That helps with acid reflux. And when we did this last tour, my voice was stronger because I didn't have the acid reflux. Now, since I've been home, I'm putting fucking Florida Frank shit on my shit.

I'm putting fucking Doyle's fucking shit. Like, I can't do that. I have to cut that off like a month or two before the tour. Wow. But Doyle's hot sauce is pretty good. It's amazing. It's amazing. It's not even hot.

You love hot sauce, Jamie. It's flavorful. James, that's your big vice, hot sauce? No, no, I'm,

I'm, I'm off of it. I just been hitting it lately. Frank's Red Hot. Louisiana. I don't have many in the house, but my daughter never liked anything spicy, and now she's liking spicy shit, so. You're fucked.

Dude, we sent a few in the proud tape demo to Stillborn. I just remembered, like 15 years ago. Dude, and did it get unloaded in my crew? Can we plug my depop right now? Because everything is getting unloaded. Absolutely. The whole storage room is getting unloaded. And actually, I want to shout out Bruce from Pushbone Warfare and a Hunter Demons because I was

going to just show you. Bruce LaPage, friend of the show. friend of the show. I want to shout out of the friend of the show. I found a box of these. I'm sending Bruce half and the other half will go up on the store.

The other half needs to go to me. Wherever it is. We're half of which I will take. We're literally unloading. So apologies to anybody who's sent me shit throughout the years.

I can't pay for five storage rooms anymore. Fuck. Oh. But I found 400 of these. Four. Yep. Oh, I do. I found so much because some of the stuff has not been,

has not seen the light of day since the old office in 2009. And then before we moved is the old office in 2009. We moved it from, I think, the one in 2004. Wow. Wow. Shout out to Bruce. Bruce. We love you. But I'm sending Bruce a box of these and then the other ones will go up on my D-pop.

But yeah, any demos, a lot of the demos originally when we started on Gas Digital, we put them up, we digitized them. Like we put them in pro tools. We would do like little remixes and where we would do mastering jobs and we put them up as bonus content on gas digital. Wow. Metal Blade once told me that they never signed a submitted demo ever. Really? I found one like I found a demo from Cavan with like a nice letter and was like we liked the integrity hate breed split.

Check out our demo. You could have had them. You could have had Cavan. You could have the best band ever. Who knows if it would have got to that point, you know, because you got to offer the band's deals and stuff. That's right. Do you want to do lightning round fan questions? Yeah, let's do this real.

We're going to rip through these questions from the hard lore universe to Jamie Joss. Let's do it. I'll rip the Twitter. You rip the IG. I'll do Instagram. Favorite venue in CT past or present. Oh, it's got to be the skate park. Bristol?

Yeah, I guess it's done. It's fully done. now I think it's closed. That's my birthplace. I don't know if you know that. Born and Bristol. Shout to. Favorite venue in the world.

Favorite venue in the world? Yeah. I don't know. I mean, a lot of bands like venues for stupid shit. Like we used to like the Norva just because I had a hot tub. And then we were like, we're like, why go in that hot tub? Like you just got fucking skating or whatever.

Oh, God. You know what I mean? You're sitting in egg drop soup. Oh, I mean, yeah, that's disgusting. More ice pick ever on a number ever? Yo, shout out to Danny D. We did remaster it. We found the drives.

I thought we lost the masters when I lost my drives. And I had to send, I had to send my drives to actually have to send it to San Fran to a forensic. Detective. Yeah, like a company that goes in and fixes the data. But Zeus actually found. shout out to Zeus. He, and I just talked to Danny D. about this. Zeus found the files, slapped a little remaster on it.

And I think what we're going to do is we put it up first on on band camp and shit and do some merch. People are begging for it to be on Spotify. I got a lot of that. Yeah, we got to get that done. Also, now that everything from the old distribution deal is in the past, I think we're good to go. So, all right. Here's a good one. After touring for so long, what are some non-

negotiable comforts that you won't tour without. Are there just any little things that you need on the rider? No, I just... Just chapstick, but I just bring my own. Yeah, but... That's the one? Chapsic's the one.

Have you ever tried to go without chapstick? I don't use it. Yeah, I've never used chapsic in my life. Don't, don't start because they try to get you... That's what I'm saying. It's a sci-op. Yeah, totally. Same with deodorant. You start using deodorants and then you think.

It's, it's, there's something, wrong with this shit and you're putting aluminum in your body and shit but no uh yeah just a glass bottle water I need the glass bottle water now that's the thing still or sparkling I'll do mostly still but I fuck with some sparkling

especially like with a little drop of like lime juice little fucking cranberry in that ass we didn't ask you many food stuff I just I got a great one what's your McDonald's order fish fillet extra tartar or you slap another fucking slice on there slap another slice of cheese

to go double cheese extra target. That way you know they got to make it fresh. I have had it where they just do it. Oh my God. You are an example of the live moss hard law mentality. We, we alter every order because we know that's, that's just for us.

You will get to something to it. Find that rip in the bun and you know they ripped open an old one. Hey, it is what it is. That's the risk. That's one percent, whatever. Hit them with the golden arches question. You're tapery What was that?

I took I did light to earth crisis and say that the shamrock shakes were vegan They're still mad about that I guess they technically were Because it's just like plastic and chemicals But there was like Fucking milk

Lessething or some shit Yeah some shit in there Oh that's good For shamrock shake It's March so you got to say right now It's March Fish Filet Shamrock shake

And you'd get the apple pie You dip it in the the shamrock shake. You know what? That's the most original order we've had quite some time. Hit him with the question. Your hatred's flying down the road, right? You got all the time in the world.

You're on tour. The bus is approaching one of them signs with all the food exits, you know? What do you see on that sign? No matter what it is, if it's a regional thing, it doesn't matter, that makes you go, hey, driver, hey, kiss. Tell them to pull the bus off the road.

we got to eat here. Oh, dude, I'm not picky. I'll do whatever. I love stopping for shitty snacks as it is. What are you excited? What gets you? What gets Jamie Josta excited to eat? I mean, I'll do, I'll fuck up a flying J like hot bar. Like one of the wackest, like most dangerous ones. Like I'll fuck up, I'll fuck up churros at love. Tequitos? Yeah. I'll fuck up a fucking cheese filled like sausage at a fucking TA. So you'll eat like a 7-11 pizza? I have. I don't really like it. You know what I like at 7-Eleven?

Is the um the cheese like the fucking what's the thing where it's like it's um shit. I don't know the name of it. It's almost a donut. No, it's almost like a euro.

It's almost like a euro sausage. I don't know what the fuck. It's not a brat. It might be like a brat with some like is it the cheese. filled sauce hot dog thing? I used to love a 7-11 hot dog.

7-Eleven in Japan is one of the greatest experience anybody can have. That family mart in Japan? Yeah. Better Gioza than five-star Japanese places here. Michelin star Gioza in the 7-Eleven. Dude, AM-PM has like some sort of

like ramen bar thing in there where if you zoom in, it's like you're in the never-ending story when the horse goes down. water and fucking grasses coming up and shit. So your answer for the one place you would stop is flying excited about.

You're like, fuck, yeah, yo, it's flying gigo. Well, I'm like, listen,

if you're down for the core, you know about like a split tape, split seven inch split shirt. You know, there's, you know, you're down for the split. So like back when they split the fucking,

when Pepsi bought up all the shit and they were like, fuck it, we're going to fucking save on rent. We'll, we'll do a split. it restaurant. Yeah. Yeah. You split up a fucking KFC. KFC Taco Bell. KFC Taco Bell Pizza Hut combo. That's a great pick. Two, two fried breasts. Like we did that like multiple times. Like what was that thing called?

It was like double down. Double down. It's back. It's back right now. Yeah, double down was evil. We got back on for us. You were dehydrated for weeks after that. Yeah. I'll take a couple years off your life. This is a fun question. Who has done the Hate Breed cover? I don't know. There's been a lot of good ones recently. Squyla Grine did one. I like.

They did filth. You guys, you know, that was, that was nice. You got the new generation, you know, getting into us. I mean, that's, that's high, you know, there you go. That's a high praise. And that was fun.

Taylor recorded that for free just because he wanted to hear. It's so sick. What a guy. And just, here's one just so that you know, you don't have to, we already went over, but just so you know we weren't making this up,

someone said stories from the satisfaction record release. So that's like a real, it's out there in the, in the ether that, you know. No, listen, I get it. Like if somebody's hero moment is another moment where somebody's been bullied and is a victim. And so, who am I to take someone's experience away from them? Right? Like and and somebody being in the wrong.

Yeah. In one story, someone's totally justified in another story. And back then, meleys of the most insane, um, fucking level would happen a lot. And you've got to just kind of like become numb to it and, and not get in the middle of it and just move on to the next gig. Yeah. Um, but some, for some people, it's like a life changing. life-defining event. For me, I had already been like fucking my cheek broken doing the door.

You know, people trying to rob me of the door money. I've, you know, been hitting the head with a bat. Like I had, like, like, like at that point, you know, I have scars all over my head from just being in from sixth to ninth grade. Like so at that point, being in a band and being playing shows where, you know, somebody gets punched in the face. To me, it was like, hey, no big deal. Let's figure it out. We got a next show to do. Well, you weren't looking at that for what it actually was, where it was like this moment is,

this is this, they're doing this for you. You did that. It's your fault. You made that happen. What do you mean? Like, well, well, no. That was for you. They said, Jamie, this is what we're doing is that we're doing is for you.

We love your album. I'm going to beat the shit out of this guy because I love your owl. But, but if someone was in the, but if someone was also in the wrong, that was working at the venue who believes that they're in the right? I mean, Darth Vader is the hero in his own narrative. Right, right. I mean, we went through a whole time

where the fucking, where the villain was, I mean, people loved the villain. So if we were... I'm so sorry. I was just going to say, if we are our friends or another band on the bill, if we were looked at it as the villains because of that. Oh, well.

There's nothing, Bill. You did, you did great. You did. a good job. We have a thing real quick with that was our an episode a couple times a couple weeks ago called the master killer tier

list. We consider there's good albums, there's great albums, there's master killer, which is just a cut above. You know, like albums like thriller, brain and blood, those are all master killer to desire. Satisfaction. What are your master killer

to your record? You know, I used to, I used be so bummed. I would do the door. You know how many marauder shows I booked with like 60 people? 40 people. And I would go, that's why we're here doing the Lord's work. I would go, this is like, have you heard the record? Like, they got signed essential media. They toured with

Fear Factory. We would put that on the flyer. Yeah. And, yeah, like, you would, like, you would, like, you know what, you would, you give the list of shows to the radio station and be like, check this one out, like, listen to this record. And then the radio station wouldn't play it. And you go, what the fuck? The production's awesome.

The songs are great. It's the best. It's the best production ever. That's some of the criteria. Yeah. The bottom line is that for every great record, the fan base is out there. Like we used to joke like we would see when at the gates eventually went on and they started the haunted. We would see them at festivals and they would be like, hate breed open for at the gates.

But at that show, I'm not kidding you. Everybody went outside to smoke for at the gates. And it was like. And I was like, this is insane. Like, this is one of the greatest bands ever. They have one of the greatest Slaughter of the Souls is one of the greatest metal records of all time. Would you say it's Master Killer Tier?

It's, I would say you might have to do Slaughter of the Soul Tier. Wow. That's a different show. That's a whole other episode. That's a whole different show. You know, it's a different genre too. So I'll give you that. It's a different genre.

No, we do genre. Like thriller is a master killer. It's a thriller. rumors master killer but so we would see the haunted and we would talk about that show because it was it was sick of all napal napalm death at the

gates hate breed sub zero and maybe there was 150 people at the show so people will post the flyer now and people are like oh my god I would kill to see the show but when we would see the haunted we would joke around and be like you know that like you guys literally started like an entire genre

like I'm not kidding you like right after you fucking left and you went back like a whole scene popped up. We would tell him like black die, you murder, fucking, I mean, like multiple scenes. Yeah. Metal core, death metal, Malata death, mellow death, whatever you want to call it.

I'm like, I'm like, these guys, now they know, obviously, but it was same with refused. Like we played hate freedom refused in Snapcase. We played and people would went outside for refused. And they kind of sounded like more like strife back then.

Right. If you had told me back then, oh, they're going to go away for 20 years. Come back, a headline Coachella. I'd like, you're fucking crazy.

Yeah, that happened overnight. That's the beauty of music is like, it's going to find the audience. The people that want to hear it, it's going to find them. It might not be now. It might be 10 years for now.

That's why when bands get discouraged, I'd be like, don't worry, don't sweat it. You could be at the gates or you could be refused in fucking 20 years. You say, master killers coming back.

Don't worry. You'll be fine. Top three hate breed songs play a lot. You know what? It changes. I'll do every song. I like a long. Can you confirm or deny something? Yeah.

Do you guys have every song in the tank? And you can just call them and okay. Because we've heard that. You got most of them, though. I've seen it happen. I've seen your verbal cues on stage where Frank and Frank's on his toes. He don't know what's going to, what's happening next. And he's just like, oh, okay.

And then it's, there's this, you don't have to speak. The band just knows. We, we have a lot, but you know what's funny is like now, like there was an album we did and it wasn't really well received and now it's catching on. And people want to hear it. Divinity of Purpose. It's, and we're, I think we're getting that record back soon. Like, I think the, I don't know for sure, but maybe for Europe or something. One of the licenses like reverts back to us.

But like, that's one that now I would remix, remaster, or I would put. out like the other versions of the songs. Like people will hit us up and be like, oh, why don't you play Time to Murderer? Or why don't you play Dead Man Breathing or why don't you play the, and I'm, and these are songs that at the time, you know, some places that just didn't react. Yeah. But now people. Sorry.

I keep doing this to you. I'm so sorry. No. Dead Man Breathing is probably my number one hate breed track like post self-titled. Really? I love that song. see that song's grown on people big time no i grew on me right away but i'm i hear it from your mind because we're the same person i've seen hate read a bunch i've never seen you guys play spitting

venom it's one of my favorite okay yeah that that that that could come back we've done it recently song rips that you know what people like self-titled now too like people ask us to play hands of a dying man they ask us to play merciful merciful merciful tide um there's some there's some cuts you know that that's uh we we made the mistake on that record and didn't like my i call it a monte conner trick like monte shout to monte he said you always go with the trojan horse song you go with the fast heavy song first we should have did that on self-title we should have led with merciless tied we actually it's john franks fall we led within ashes which became a mild hit but it was um it was too different at the time but merciless tide or

pollution of the soul were to me you buried them they were way down there it's like track 11 and 13 or something we should we when when we went with merciless tied as the second track or whatever then people were like oh okay maybe the record will be all right but you know you live you live and you learn there's no blueprint you just got a i think it'll find its audience eventually someone will find the songs and they'll go that's my that's my jam so it's good not to take any of this shit personal like when people don't like it absolutely um two questions from quincy punks when are you playing brockton shout out to brockton yeah and so there's a there's a theme on on this show that we ask let's close with this yeah yeah i think we've we don't want to take up

anymore your time it's been three hours um we'll close with this this this is a good one this is something we ask everybody at this point the question is who do you do who does james Amy do who were the front men you saw three or four guys where you were like that's that's me. I'm going to do that where you subconsciously bring in what they're doing on stage, what they're doing with their voices into what you're doing. Well, a buddy of mine, John, we call them Pugs, shout to Pugs. He had a tape of Cromags at City Gardens where John has like the fresh chest tattoos.

like they're still covered up in bandages and he's doing flips off the monitors and it's a high stage at City Gardens we actually got to play there eventually and then I remember getting like a circus magazine or metal maniacs or whatever

and seeing a picture of the tattoos like without the bandages on his chest and then I went and I got whatever records and then you could buy like the bootleg tapes and trade the VHS tapes

and I just I always thought he had a great energy but it's different because it's it's different beats it's different like he has a different rhythm than I do but I was but I also thought there was times where I could feel like he was looking directly at like certain people in the crowd and I thought okay he he's good at like connecting with people And there's other times where, you know, frontman was just kind of like talking outwardly to the crowd.

There's a famous, uh, there's a famous tape of Freddie, uh, from Madball going like, don't you punch me in the dick, motherfucker. I'll punch you in the, or whatever. And he was, he would go right to the front and command the people and look people dead in the eye. And because that's how it was. Like a lot of times when you go to towns and you're playing and you're playing this heavy, hard music, you have people that want to test. You have people that want to size you up.

and so I think him Roger too like Roger when he had the long hair and he was going nuts very sick so hard but he he didn't so much as like engage with people in the crowd as Freddie did I think Freddie kind of took that to a better like a

he's really engaging and just you know just hard just a menacing but still like you wanted to be his friend like hard but you knew like oh I got to go talk to this dude after the show yeah yeah you know you like and especially like with john I think because of that I could never be that athletic like I remember trying to dive

off the monitor and I just fell like flat on my face like the crowd didn't even catch me so I was like all right I'm not going to do any John Joseph's um you know city gardens moves but those three um it's a good three I mean I love that singer in the biggest hardcore band ever references the other biggest hardcore bands. To like, I mean, influential hardcore.

Like, well, how, what's the percentage of, of hate breed fans that have never heard another hardcore band, you know? Well, also,

if you think about the frontman that I really like the in metal, a lot of them play instruments. So it's a different way of connecting. Maybe they'll move from the mic stand and connect. Like, but if you've ever seen them without a guitar, like if you've ever seen Tom or I, without a base. It's kind of like funny.

If you ever see Rob Flynn, Rob can do it because he's a, he's a, dude. They don't know what to do. Yeah, they don't. Yeah. But Rob is great. I always, I always thought Rob was great with the lead-ins to the moshes and really commanding the crowd, especially if you watch in Biohazard too, if you watch Dynamo, but Madwell played dynamo, that's a great video to watch because they're, that you're really seeing the genesis of the, of the crowd involvement. That's when they fuck up the crucified cover and Freddy's really pissed and he said, come see me after the fucking show.

And it's very like, oh. That was a great. Those are three great picks. Max is great. Max sure is great. Because you could see him like channeling like and just just vibe and it's different when you're, again, like when you're playing the guitar. But Burton from Fear Factory was always good.

Max has one of my favorite mosh calls of all times. Unjo's Trey's Quatt? Yeah, I mean, that's incredible. Yeah. It's from a live, it's like a deluxe, I don't know if it's from Roots or something, but there's a live recording and he says, Sal Palo show the world. Wow. That's the Mosh call. That's hard.

New Haven show the world. Connecticut shows the world all the time, right, Jamie? Pizza. You want to have pizza beef before we go? You want to talk about, yeah, what's your, are you Sally's or Frank Coffey's? Sally's all the way. my Uncle Mike made the sauce. My Uncle Mike's worked there for 45 years.

I'm with you, man. When I said Sally's, Jay was like, wow, bit of a contrarian. And I was like, am I? I don't think I am. I think Sally is number one. Let me, let me, one thing, one last thing. I'm sorry to keep you. I think three hardest pits all time.

Crowbar to carry the load. Suffocation Thrones of Blood. Hey, breed doomsayer. Give me your top three. I'm going to go suffocation liege of inviracity. Great pick. I'm going to go sepulterra dead embryonic cells. Actually, if you name a better three piece out of the gate, then arise, dead embryonic cells and fucking desperate cry.

Desper cries. Desperate cry is an ass beer. I just had Mickey D on my show and Mickey D calls him a smokers. Desperate cry is a smoker. I mean, you want to talk about a... I love a two-word chorus or a two-word shout. Yeah, yeah. Desperate.

But disciple, God hates us all. I mean... So that came up on. on the bad, the bad record, heavy quote, bad, because I don't think it's bad. Diabolus is the one. I don't love either one.

But Disciple is the one where you're like, there's nothing you can say. Dude, disciple has a hate pretty breakdown. It does. Like, objectively hearing it as an outsider, I'm like, what?

Well, people were going crazy with that when they first came out. New faith, they said sounded like before dishonor or so. I think it's new faith, one of them, where he's like,

holy man, up in and they were like, yo, Slayer owes you a sandwich. I mean, that owes you a sandwich has been around for, yeah, forever. So you're saying that Disciple is number three pit part of all time? I mean, I saw people that whole tour, like it got, that really brought back the heat. Like, they brought back the mosh on that. But this, remove yourself from what you've seen. What is Jamie Joss a fan of Spin Kick music?

that you're saying you're gonna go on record on hard lore to the to the world disciple number three disciple oh dude i mean no i mean you could go you could go anything off of the fucking first biohazard you could go hold my own you could go you could go anything off a set it off or you could go anything off of hold it down i mean first first three on hold it down is ass beat or delight what have i been saying yeah i mean you could move stop is the best hardcore song. Best modern hardcore song. It's perfect.

I think that might have been my number one on the hardest hardcore countdown in top 50 or whatever. That might have been my number one. Was it really? It's, I'm going to ask you a Connecticut question on the way out here. I think dead at birth is the best hardcore song of the 2000s.

2000 to 2010. That's a good one. See, I, you know what? I'm too close to it because I was like, to me, when I put out last days, I thought this is going to be the biggest band. Like, I really

thought, like, this is going to be the one. And then I had people like, once you realize there's a whole world outside of the, like, and it was, I also realized this when we did another voice with Ignostive Front, like when I got them on Headbanger's Ball, like,

you realize there's this, there's millions of people who they do not feel the same way. And they will go out of their way to tell you this. I remember the MySpace, the MySpace. But with Death Rat,

people said like he sounded British. I never understood that. I'm like, you know what's crazy. Somebody lately that I know was like, yo, is that the band with a guy that sounds Jamaican? And I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? But to me, okay, if he sounded British, like we love the business, like we love, there's tons of, like, yeah.

I always thought Death Threat should have been the biggest band. You know, Aaron's like a heart throb. Like, I thought, like, oh, this is going to be the band that's, like, going to be the bridge between H2O and Hayprey. Like, somehow you find the middle ground. It's youth of today and Hayprey combined. Or, you know what I mean? Yeah. I'm with you, man.

I love hearing you say that. Who does the backup vocals on before dishonor and set up? That's Matt. That's Mattie Matt. Shout out to Mattie Matt. Hard to find on the internet some of these little details. Wow. This is a this was a masterful episode of hard Lord Jamie. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me guys. And, um, and I hope you, you know, I'll put in the word

with D. You got to get O GD. He's original PMA. He had a PMA book. We've got it in. His, his daughter is a friend of the show, um, shy. Shout out to shy. She's working. He would tell me like he, he would, he would hit me up. He'd be like, do you know death before dishonor? His favorite bang? Yeah. And he goes, that's my favorite band. Dude, we got it. Yeah.

Unreal. The audience will be found. Like, you just, you put it out there and it's going to, someone is going to hear it. And it's going to be their, and they could tell people and whatever. Like, he told me, Ignite Darkest Days is one of the greatest records of all time. And I'm like, you know what? You might be right. And I went back and revisited the record.

I'm like, this is a fucking unbelievable record. Bleeding is a perfect song. The hit. It's a smash hit. A hit is a hit. It's a hit. Science. It's science.

Ramones, Ramones Pet Cemetery. Oh, dude. Masterpiece, dude. All a brain drain is actually fucking awesome. I believe in miracles. I went to New York City. I went to EMI.

I had all the meetings. And I went to Toast Place and I saw Ramones in a van outside. And I go, how is this possible that Ramones is, in a van. And when I got to a meeting, they said, so what do you think? Like, what, and I go, we want to be like the Ramones of fucking heavy music, like just, like just solid. Like you just got hits, but you're not, you know, you're not like the biggest band in the world, but you, you know, every, your shirts are everywhere. And, and he goes, the Ramones, this guy literally looked at me in the meeting. I won't say what his name was, but he looked at me in the meeting. He goes, they didn't even sound scan 20,000

records. At that time, they hadn't sound scan 20,000 records yet on, on, on, on, on, brain drain. I think maybe even after like 30 years, I think maybe it's at like 30,000 or 35,000 sound scan. So we should check that. It's their best record. That is a crime. It's a crime. And so, you know, when satisfaction got to like 250,000

records, and now it's way past that, but at that time on sound scan, reentering the billboard charts. Yeah. That's when the weight of it hit me like, you know, you sold like almost a hundred times or whatever, like the fucking, it was crazy. Yeah. 10 times.

See, I'm Brian Williams in the shit out of it. You did great. Don't worry. We'll do the math for you. But that's why. But now everyone will find,

hopefully people will continue to find brain drain and they'll realize the weight and the heaviness of I don't want to be buried in a pet cemetery because I don't want to live again. I don't want to live my life again. I mean, how sad is that?

It's a major. It's a crusher, but it's a hit. It's a hit. Great movie. Great song. Great movie. great song.

It's a great episode of hardlorn. Go listen to Monstrance Clock. You like Ghost? Yeah. You like Monstrance Clock? The world is on fire. Is it that one? No, it's the sound of the monstrance clock. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I had, that's an earworm that I'm not kidding you. That fucked me up for like nine months. I had to go see a professional. Come together. Oh, yeah. Together. and then it for Lucifer's son

I went to take a nap at Bloodstock I woke up during the nap and I could hear that through the wall of the bus and I went out into the crowd into Gen Pop to watch it first I went on stage and I was like wait is there no amps going

like what's going on like then I went out to the crowd and I was like oh okay it's just all through the PA but I was like whoa and that shit that's like a pet cemetery for me that blew your mind When I think of Pet Semetery, that's a brain, that's a brainworm for me. That's a brainwarks in my goddamn head.

Dude, I played that on the bus over and over. I got a brainworm right now. It's a TikTok of the, uh, the gray, the millennial gray bathroom in the Mexican restaurant. You seen that one? That one is, I'll send it to you, Jamie. I don't want it. It's going to run my life for nine months. It might because you're going to be like, this is so stupid.

And then an hour later, you're going to be like, there's a millennial gray bathroom in the Mexican restaurant. Shit. It'll get you, man. You're fucked. There's a millennial Baye the game.

Restreams are the Mexican restaurant. But thank you. This is, I mean, I could go another hour easily, but we,

well, thank you guys. Milwaukee Metal Fest, May 26th, 27th, 28th, and Jostra, for all,

hopefully be out of the end of May. Go to martyrstore. Dot net, get the corpse grinder, check out the Ripper. And yeah, that's it. And then hopefully

we'll see everybody next year on the Heypre 30th anniversary tour. Unbelievable. Thank you so much, Jamie. 30 fucking years of the best

tarquor band ever. And I'm not gonna load up on fucking hot sauce and bullshit beforehand. I'm gonna get, I'm gonna really hit it hard. So, you know. I think you should do whatever you need to do, man. I'm not gonna load up on pizza before that one. I gotta really tapered

I'll meet you at Sally's before the tour. We'll get one in. I just went there with Ricky Rachman a few months back and it was nice. It's amazing. Shout out to Ricky rackman. A couple presenting legends. Get him on there. He's, Ricky's down for the core, dude. He's got some more.

You guys paid the way for this. Like, you got the pods to set up. But like, head bangers ball, man. That's like, that's what we're all doing headbangers ball. You know. Dude, you got to get him on the show. He'd be great. Let's get him.

Let's get it. Let's get into the future. Let's hate breed 30 years. Jamie Josta. Thank you guys. Oh, yeah, Furnace Fest. I got to plug that, right? OG said at Furnace Fest.

There was other stuff I was supposed to plug. I'm forgetting. Is that what are you doing in Furnace Fest? Yeah, we're doing Furnace Fest. There was another one I forget. We'll be there. Oh, Inc. incarceration.

The Tatt show? That's in Ohio, July. So that's another one we can announce. All right. Huge. Check out everything Jamie's got going up. Martyr store. Still.

We got Jamie on hard lore. We got to bring, we got to do this once a month. We didn't even talk about it. his ball or nothing. Yeah, we'll get there. We'll get there on part two. Jamie, thank you so much. This was perfect. Anytime. Thank you guys. I appreciate it.

All right. We will talk to you soon. Thank you all so much for watching. Bye. Take care, fellas.