HardLore - Jay Petagine (Mindforce)

Episode Date: March 2, 2023

Colin and Bo sit down with Jay Petagine AKA Jay Peta, frontman of MINDFORCE and co-frontman of Pillars of ivory. In the longest Hardlore episode yet, the three discuss mosh technique, etiquette, the science of writing the perfect breakdown, Mindforce's untouchable songwriting formula, and much more. Enjoy 2 and a half hours of platonic sparks flying between three like minded mosh enthusiasts. Get 20% OFF @manscaped + Free Shipping with promo code HARDLORE at MANSCAPED.com! #ad #manscapedpod Join WHATNOT with our special little link to get $15 off your first purchase. Get ready for the first ever Hardlore live auction soon: https://www.whatnot.com/invite/hardlore FOLLOW JAY: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/jaypeta_ FOLLOW MINDFORCE: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/mindforceNY TWITTER | https://twitter.com/mindforceNY FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/hardlorepod/ TWITTER | https://twitter.com/hardlorepod SPOTIFY | https://spoti.fi/3J1GIrp APPLE | https://apple.co/3IKBss2 FOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/colinyovng/ TWITTER | https://www.twitter.com/ColinYovng FOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/bosxe/ TWITTER | https://www.twitter.com/bosxe Check out our merch at https://knotfest.com/store/?view=hard... Find all of our videos at https://knot1.co/3vWXsbx   HardLore: A Knotfest Series, Fueled by Monster Energy Edited by Steven Grise • Title sequence by Nicholas Marzluf Join the HARDLORE PATREON to watch every single weekly episode early and ad-free, alongside exclusive monthly episodes. Join the HARDLORE DISCORD for community discussions and to participate in our future Q&A episodes. FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER, SPOTIFY, APPLE FOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAM FOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER   For sponsorship opportunities, email us! [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome. It's Hardlore time. How are you, Bo? I'm great. How are you? Bo has strep throat. And before we started, I was like, Bo, you don't have to talk about having strep throat. And we just had the exact moment where Michael Jackson's being interviewed. He was like, I don't like touring. I'm tired. I'm sick. And the producers like, but Michael, you can't say that. I love to tour. So thanks for being a good sport, Bo. Thanks for being here. Strep throat, man. No problem. Who do we got?

we got a what a special guess we have dominating the airwaves currently Mind Force Pillars of Ivory this pizza eating motherfucker cinema watching legend

Jay from Mindforce how are you sir It's great to be here guys I'm honored Thank you for that intro It was great Certified friend of the show I am a pizza eating motherfucker

That's true Scientifically speak This is objective You know. Object. How are you doing? I'm doing good. I'm just over here, piloting the X-wing fighter.

That's right. And, you know, I'm doing great. I got off work. There's a snowstorm coming tonight, which means someone like me won't probably have to go to work tomorrow, so I'm really excited. What do you do for? I'm a public school teacher. Oh, lovely. How about that?

I had that at like eighth or ninth of my notes here, but we can get right into that. That's our third teacher, I think. It's our third. Harkcore loves teaching. Hudson Valley Harkor loves teaching. That's right. Yeah. Houttson Valley Harkor loves teaching.

So. Wow. What age, what age group? Oh, high school. Oh, boy. All the grades in high school. Have you seen a Mindforce shirt yet?

Oh, no, no, no. Not where I'm at. Not where I'm at. Not a lot of Mindforce shirts in the hood. Okay. Even then, even are you not, do you teach in the Hudson Valley? That's, and you preach in the Hudson Valley.

I teach, yeah, yeah, I do, I teach in the Hudson Valley. I mean, I don't see any. I do show my kids sometimes. Like, you know, look at this shit's crazy, right? And they're just like, you know, what's wrong with you? They think it's nuts. But they are familiar with stage diving and stuff because, you know, like at rap concerts these days, people moshed and stage diving and shit, you know what I mean?

So they are familiar with that, but not necessarily. like the fake karate type that we're used to you know yeah I like that so a lot of we had a lot of comments that people were asking about you and the kickboxing gimmick the I did I had no idea

that was such a commonly known thing your your your live isms yeah I mean you say a word and then you know you got to hear about it for months game over game over yeah you know no I just when I came into

this thing of ours, you know, that's what the guys called it. And I always liked that term for it. So I just started using it again. Real, real, like, legit old head move to be the, like, that's like the human furnace type move where he's

like, you know, motherfuckers, ninja ninja kicking. Ninja kicking, yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's good shit. What, uh, are you like a sub? Do you do multiple things? Or do you focus on one subject? I'm a history teacher. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm a history teacher. That's the second history teacher, too. You ever meet Petlin? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Pat's a great guy. You guys talk about history and shit? He loves to.

I try not to. Right now, currently I'm dying. Okay. You got a favorite history? Nah. I think suicide file man was a history teacher, too. I wonder why history teachers. Is this so mind force as an entity?

You've perfected the kind of current form of existing as a band of like, hey, we can't tour. You got to see us when we're playing. I love being a part of the can't tour community. It's great. It's great. It's great. Do you ever, it's great, but every once in a while, man, I wish I could get out there for like two weeks. I know.

Two weeks, at least. Sometimes it's even hard to do a week, dude. Yeah. Could you do it? In the summer, if it lands on two months, I could do like a week. But honestly, I could do more than a week if I wanted to do those two months. But I miss my family and my dog too much, man. It's funny.

I feel like we've been around mind force and pillars every time we've been doing something for the show that like I feel like you guys are always touring I feel my body feels like that too but we aren't yeah you're flying twice a month for two days

it's the your body it has the same effect on you physically your ass is going to be sore dude I'm noticing a lot of injuries all the time from just being a athletic psychopathic masher in my whole life and shit like that. The plane,

kickboxer, fake karate specialist. The plane kills me, man. Like this past month, um, you know, we don't tour,

but, you know, I work full time all week, you know, and, uh, we did three weekends in a row. And it was brutal,

man. Last weekend was my first weekend off in a while. And I was like, this shit rules. You know, It felt like we, I mean, I mean, that's, I mean, people who are on tour probably like, yeah, okay, it felt like you're on tour. But at our age, with what we're doing during the week and everything we have in our life and with the injuries we're nursing, you know, Mike is, you know, he walks with a cane sometimes, you know, he's real fucked up from an injury. We had like a year hiatus because of it and all this shit.

So like, it's one of the, it's one of the reasons we haven't been. certain long distances. It's just because it's just too much. Like Australia and that shit, that's crazy, man. That's a long flight. It's not good. It's so funny. It's like, it's interesting to hear you describe Mind Force this way when I feel like peripherally the perspective of Mind Force

is this like, you sound like a young band. You haven't been that around that long, but you as people have. You fit right along with the fucking tsunamis and Pain of Truth out there who are. Hell yeah. They just got their GEDs. Love them.

Yeah. It's like every fest is now it's mind force and pain of truth at the top. But like mind force and God's hate spent like two years back. That was great. It was the best. What a run. I used to any time you guys were after like after or before us, I'd be like fuck. Then there was a couple where we were before you.

I was like, yes. Yeah. Those were, I mean, those weren't what I was like, fuck. Yeah, no. Everybody feels the fire and then I got to go fucking. There's some certain bands out there now. I feel like there's more than usual where, man, I hate going on after them. I hate going on after them.

Every band gets a road warrior pop now, you know? That's why they shit rules right now. Exactly. Yeah. It rules right now. What do you think, I'm curious to hear. I don't think we've ever. asked this. What do you think is the darkest era in the

dark age? Well, some of it has, yeah, that's a great question. Yeah, yeah. Well, some of it has to do with my perspective on things and the sub-genres I love the best in hardcore, you know what I mean? But for me, it was definitely the 2000s. Across the ball. Just melodic. Like, yeah, like 2002 to 2008, 2007, maybe. Yeah. It was just like, you know, For me, a lot of things started to happen where I was like, oh, we're calling this hardcore. Oh, yeah, we're calling this hardcore.

Cool. You know what I mean? Things got a little, I don't know. You know, and I definitely was a part of some of the worst parts of it. I, you know, I was in a bunch of terrible bands. What bands? Alphabetical order. 2000s, 2000s, well, in the 90s, I was in a band called Elevate.

We weren't good. Then I was in a band When Dreams Die, we weren't good. Yeah, the 2000s, the two bands I were in were When Dreams Die and this other band, Robots and Empire. When Dreams Die was like an early metalcore thing at the time. You know what I mean? Sure. Like Caving or Comberds or some shit like that. And Robots and Empire was like neurosis shit.

Damn. Yeah, it was like, doomy. slow, doomy, sludgy shit, which is also kind of the late 2000s was popping too, so. It was. Yeah. We were kind of like,

we were kind of both sign of the times. What did you do in the bands? I was a drummer, man. I'm a drum. Most of my life I've been a drummer. Huh. Yeah. You're breaking news every minute on the show so far.

You're a drummer with a beastash drummer in your band. That's got to feel good. Oh, he's, he's popping. He's an animal. He's popping. Happen. I love him. Yeah, he's great. He plays with my snare drum. Does he? Yeah, because the shit is crazy. That shit sounds crazy. I never thought to ask. But you and I talked about at Sounding Fury, your slash mind forces method of just writing pattern breakdowns. Oh, totally. That's a,

that's a lifestyle for you, right? Lifestyle for me. I consider, you know, I consider myself, you know, as you mentioned it. consider myself a connoisseur of mouth riffing. Mouth riffing those patterns. Could you walk me through the mouth riff pattern breakdown process, start to finish? A lot of it has to do a copying. A lot of it has to do a copying. So, and I find that the older I get, the worse my patterns get, I almost have to go back to the old way

and think of like a more not good at music brain pattern. You know what I mean? I don't know if this is making sense at all. No, it does. No, when you overthink and you get into like perfectionism, it kind of cuts out some of the organic. Like one of Mind Forces' biggest mosh parts, one of our biggest songs in Nightmare,

John, John, John, John, you know, whatever. It's stolen from my first band I was in, Elevate. We just took it because it was just the pattern was, right and everything we were thinking of was like too smart you know what i mean but usually i'm listening to like you know some hardcore shit or maybe some death metal shit and i hear something i like and i stop and i try to like mimic the pattern a little bit or reverse it and then i just record it into my phone you're speaking of my soul bam bam dunna da da da da and i just keep going yeah You know, so.

I love it. I mean, if you look at like the fucking, like the 50s and 60s, it was the same song under the lyrics, under the melodies. We're doing the same thing now, but we're just repurposing things in a creative way. I love that you are, that you're a purveyor of that. Chuck Berry wrote Johnny Be Good like 30 different times. And that's all you needed to do.

I mean, literally all he needed to do. But every one of his hit songs is the same fucking song. Every riff is gone. We got to just figure out ways to play the ones that are out. And stop playing notes. Enough with the notes. I'm with you. Just done, dung, yeah.

01. One is all you need. Each is whatever. Seven for the one, the octave of O. Yeah, but that's still one. It's still O. It's still O one. Oh, you know.

I mean, sometimes, I have to, sometimes I'm not the best at, like, some of the more licky parts in a riff. Like, I might come up with a part and, like, have, like, a little part where I'm like, all right, Mike, you got to do something there. You know what I mean? Do a lick, yeah. Do like, yeah, insert. Like, something like, you know, I don't know. Because I play a little guitar, but I'm real bad at guitar. I'm terrible.

You don't need to play it. You just need to know. Figure it out. What rocks, you know? Yeah. Oh, no, you know that's going to be good. It's going to be. Yeah, it's rocket. There's like this, there's a, there's a formula that Mind Force has, has perfected at this point, you know.

And I'm, I, I, I'm, I'm not tired of it. I want it again, you know. It's the big intro. Big fast verse. Most definitely. Ring out a hard ass line. Most definitely. And then, bum, bum, bum, bum.

Most definitely. Hard ass line after the bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. Bum, bumb. Skank version of Bum, bum, bum, bum, best song of all time. I love it. Which is the hate breed school, which is where every, every,

it's sort of like hate breed, like hate breed and pop music. Have the same kind of structure I'm always looking for. Start big. Pick it up. Hit them hard. And then give them a reason to get to the end. You have a reason to get to the end.

You got, this is two guys who Magna come loud as hell from Haypreed University talking right now. Oh, yeah. I mean, everything I do has that, even if I'm not doing hardcore, hate breed really influenced me. And like the way, it sounds funny, but like the way I look at Stormwriting comes a lot from

the first Hayprey, seven inches I got and satisfaction. So they gave you your glasses that you're looking at. Oh, most definitely. Everything I do as far as song structure, I mean, Colin nailed it, not that it's a Rubik's Cube to figure out, but it's,

I mean, it's, it is not broken. It's all, it's all I want from music for me. And it's, and it's honestly, for me,

I don't want much more from hardcore. Hmm. It doesn't need, I mean, no. you're talking about the old way you know that's the old way the death right way hook them

kill him bring them back to life kill them back to life kill them again kill them again over I mean is it the only genre of music that where a band could get away with playing for 15 minutes and people will like love it because it's not really

about maybe noise because they're like alright guys it's a little loud but you know what turn that just hardcore but like with hardcore it's more about the vibe and the energy and blah, blah, blah. Is that a black album? Sorry to jump in, Bo.

Is that a black album era, Metallica shirt? Hell yeah. Okay. How do you guys feel about the black album? Take a fucking guess, brother. I love the black album. I love it. Bo would die for the black album.

I'm fucking down with it, too, man. I don't think it's their best, but I love it. It took me a minute to just be like, Yeah. Loosin up, you know, just be like unbutton the shirt and be like, oh, it feels good. Okay. Yeah. Andy Williams was the one who was like, just like, oh, it's fine.

Just step back and look at the songs. It has a few of my favorite Metallica songs on. Exactly. And they're both ballads. Yeah. Yeah. You got it. Those are the two.

You're going to tell me those are bad, you know? It's a can't be done. My dad tries to. He's right. I mean, he's scientifically wrong. Right. Oh, he's wrong about a lot. One time we were in the band.

backyard smoking cigars. And he said to me, you know, if you ever have a moment, well, no, you guys don't smoke cigars, but. I don't know. But like I eat a super drinker. Think about what that might be like for me. My cigar with my dad on the, on the deck. You know, it's a real father, son, moment. Nobody's out there.

We're talking about music. And we're having real connections. And he's like, you know that sound like that they started doing in the 80s? Like, it's like gung, gung, gung. He's like trying to make the sound of a par mute. Uh, yeah, dad. And I'm like,

do you know about gun, dad? I'm like, you mean pom muting? And he's like, yeah. And I'm like, okay?

And he's like, I fucking hate that. And he, I said, dad, that's the sound of your son's soul. How could you, and he said,

I'm sorry, Jay, I just hate it. And the more I, I talk to him, the more of I find things that, like, for me, the Palm you is the greatest thing in music ever. Ever. Yeah.

The greatest thing of music ever. I can remember the first time I heard it. When was it? What was the first time you heard of Palm Music? Speaking of Metallica, it was in, it was in, I was either in Nick Haynes' car or Scott Prater's car in ninth grade. He put on. darkness

it was the injustice for album it actually might have been the blackened breakdown oh yeah and I just heard it because I wasn't not from that world guys I never listened to heavy metal or rock and roll

I mean rock and roll but like 70s rock and roll because of my dad or like punk rock or anything like that so I hear that I heard that shit and I just wanted to do you know that's what I was going to ask

is what kind of music does your dad listen to. My dad listens to 70s shit and 60s shit. The hardest he gets is Black Sabbath. I mean, that's what the palm you was invented. I know, I know, I try to tell him that. I try to, he just, I don't know. I mean, listen, don't try to understand this guy.

Get him in the room. Let's go. Is he 100% Italian? Yeah, he's 100%. Oh, yeah. Come on. He doesn't understand it. When I was in 10th grade, my friends and I, there was this band called Inner Dam.

I don't know if you guys ever heard of them. They're from the Hudson Valley in the 90s. If you like shit like 108 or I'm broken, check them out. They're a dope band like that, but nobody knows who they are. But the singer used to record VHSs of all the shows everywhere in the area in Connecticut and he used to sell him at a heavy metal store called rock fantasy and we used to buy them to try to see ourselves moshing. We didn't give a fuck about the bands.

Fuck yeah. And my dad comes home one day and I don't know if you guys ever had an old VCR with the slow motion button on it. Yeah, yeah. We were like putting in slow motion like pictures of us taking shots and connecting on other shots. And just be like, oh, no, how's your face? It's not broken, you know. And my father walked in.

And, like, we were just, like, looked at him. And he looked at us. And he looked at the slow motion. And I was, like, getting punched in the face, like, at that moment in slow motion. And he just looked at us. And he was just like, you know, you guys are like, you know, you're real fucking stupid. You know what that? Wow.

And it was just like, yeah. Yeah. You know, we were just like, yeah, this is stupid. But we love it. You know, we love it. Disgratia. Was he supportive? Did he drop you off at gigs and stuff?

Or was it? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, the first show, the first show I ever played at the Chance Theater. After we played, I got put in the hospital because I tried to mash. And I don't remember or know exactly what happened. Damn. Some maniac I'm probably friends with now killed me.

and you know it was bad like they kept me overnight i kept repeating the same i kept having like 10 minute memory lapses didn't know what happened all day and i remember my parents showing up and just being like you know the fuck kind of music concert where you at you know but they let me go back and you know to this day they're really supportive of me they're my biggest fans and they love Hudson Valley hardcore they get the whole thing they love all my friends a lot of them been over on Christmas and yeah even even though my dad he doesn't understand anything he's a dummy I love him I mean they're a big part of Hudson Valley hardcore whether they like it or know it or not you know they really are they really are I got some songs

to bathe them they're the great godfathers of Hudson Valley Hartford well there's a there's an iconic story that's only iconic to my brother or not but uh When CD shopping, when Taylor was like a young, young lad, asked our dad, I want to hear Jen Jen. Because he didn't know what a penit was or how to describe it. But he knew he knew he wanted to hear Jen Jen. And much like yours, my dad said, no. Here's Soundgarden.

Which probably had a couple of Jen Jen. There's some. He didn't know. He fucked up. It was a different gate way. Different gate was open. That's like what my dad threw out my snoop dog tape. Brutal.

So how did Taylor discover Jun-John if it wasn't Soundgarden? He wanted Ride the Lightning. So he went back and got Ride the Lightning on his own terms. Gathered some coins from the couch and some shit, you know? A lot of Jun-Juns on that. And that was, and a lot. Sick-ass John-John-Zons on that shit. Big one.

Dun-Tun-Jun-Jent. Right at the top. Yeah. You kidding me? No, I never had my dad with me and my dad were always in a battle over gangster rap. Okay. He, he hated it. He hated it.

Did he want you to not listen to it? Oh, yeah, yeah. Like, he, um, one day I came downstairs and he was sitting at the table with my snoop dog cassette tape. And he was just like holding it, kind of like waving it in the air. Look what I got. And I was like, yeah, you know, that Snoop Dog. And he was just like, you see this cover? You guys know the Snoop Doggy style cover?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, the dog's bending over. And I was just like, yeah. And he said, you know what, Jay? I listen. I got to stop for a minute. Yo, Dan, I'm sorry.

I'm telling this story. But anyway, so he's like, you know, Jay, you know what? I listen to this tape. I gave it a chance. And you know the way they talk about women on this tape? And, you know, he was right. you know that's a progressive take yeah he was he's a progressive guy my dad

wow aggressive guy and um i was like yeah dad but you know i'm not i don't i don't think you know i was just trying to tell me and he and i don't remember what happened but i made him mad he said you see this tape and he opened up the backdoor window it was wintertime so it was snowing and muddy out and he just wow oh the whole thing the whole right right in front of me and then do it outside and he's like fuck that tape, fuck them, fuck those guys,

fuck the way they talk about women, blah, blah, blah. He was ahead of his time. He was really upset about those thoughts. The way they, you know, talk about women. And,

but you know what? I went out that night. I snuck outside. And I got that tape. And I went inside. You re-spooled it. And I fucking stood there, bro.

And I, and I can't get. No way. And there was some, like, of it I had to gently uncrinkle to make the flatness, to have the flatness come back. And I listen to that tape forever still. And I recently told my dad, I said, you know what?

You tried to throw out my Snoop Dog tape. You didn't fucking get it. I listen to that shit every day and I still love it. You motherfucker? Wow. I told him. Yeah. Unreal.

And you can't. Wow. That's an experience that cannot be. you like you can't compare that to anything that happens today you are you are your parents like delete and spotify playlist i know how they can't man these motherfuckers don't know how good they have it it's so it's everything's free basically i know i'm so glad i did not grow up now dude bro i would be a a fucking demon the things i would look up because we used to seek out um i'm making myself sound like with Van Winkle, but...

You're doing great, don't worry. We would seek out these videos called Traces of Death. Have you ever heard of? Of course. Faces of Death? Well, faces, the traces was the real shit we heard. Oh, really? Yeah, because... We were awesome. We really want to see a human being die shit, you know, which is...

Totally. What was wrong with us? Not the thoughts of a functioning human. Yo, I needed. I was like, I got to see a corpse. I don't know what I'm not. I'm not even joking today on my wall. walk back from coffee for whatever reason. Rotten.com popped into my head.

Oof, that's a rough one. That went to places I didn't want to go. Because see, that would happen. I just want to see a corpse and then, you know. I want to see a face of death, please. I can't watch any of that shit at all anymore. Like, any more. I can't even watch like a leg break.

No, no. Oh, check this out. I thought I could watch it then, but I couldn't even watch it then. So I used to live with this dude from the Hudson Valley called Big Will. legendary masher from our area masch for all out war for 20 years straight just a dope dude shout out to Will but he loved traces of death

and when we live together when we live together he was there was a period of a couple months where he was unemployed and I was working and I would come home and he would be asleep on the couch like with Joe Traces of death just playing, bro.

I'm repeating, feeding into this motherfucker's subconscious. And I would be like, I would be like, yo, you got to shut this shit. I would come home and shut it off

and he would like wake up. What are you shut it off? What are you shut off for? I'm watching it. I'm like, no, you're not. You're sleeping. And it was a whole thing.

And we even had some small skirmishes where I'd be like, yo, you can't, I need to stop watching that shit, man. So I couldn't even take a dembo. I thought I could. But once,

once was, too much for me. I can't even take it. To this day, I have trouble with some death metal covers. Wow. Death metal artwork. Like cannibal corpse and shit? Oh, brutal. And it's hilarious because I love cannibal corpse. But I will never, I can't rock the shirt. But visually, you hate them.

It's just so, it's disgusting. It's icky. It's very icky. I'm not, that's that world. And, you know, shout out to anybody that loves this. That's totally cool. if you do. But like the whole horror movie, blood, you know,

that's not from me personally. Let me ask you this. And it doesn't really make sense. I'm a hypocrite because I watch someone get shot with a gun in the face and be like, oh, that was dope. Yeah, but that's simulated, you know? Yeah, all movie stuff.

That's for the sake of the story. Yeah, yeah, movie stuff. Oh. Certain like movie violence, like horror, torture stuff. Yeah. I'm with you there. Yeah. I can't.

You fuck with Saw? Nah. You should, dude. I mean, yo, I don't know if Tiffany can hear me, but that was one of the first dates. My wife and I went to, we went to go see Saw. Saw one? Yeah, Saw One. And I was just like, great date.

I was like, this is fucked up, babe. You know, good movie, but, man, I mean, you know. But then the ending hit, and maybe that's the reason you guys remember. married today, you know? Yeah, maybe. And I remember people screaming during the ending of that movie, like in the theater, just like, like, freaking out. Yeah, when the fucking score kicks in at the end with the song.

What's that? Colin, that director's names escaping me. What's his name again, dude? James Wan. He's done a bunch of stuff. I like. I like that. You fuck with Aquaman?

Yeah, I do fuck with Aquaman. It rocks, dude. It's better than the new black. Panther. I do fuck with I started watching that, not knowing who did it. And that first fight scene happened, where they're in the sub. Yeah. And just some of that, I was like,

oh, I was like, who did this? You're like, this has saw vibes. This is visually stimulated. You know, just I think Aquaman visually is stimulating. It's a fantasy epic. It rocks. It's a straight up good movie. I don't care. I like, though, a lot of stuff I would get crucified for

in the DC world. I mean, I fuck. I fuck with all the DC movies. You're talking to a Batman versus Superman ultimate cut loyalist, right? Yeah, you know, I fuck with the Snyderverse, the Snyder cut, whatever it's thought. It's straight up good. I love it. It's only one moment I hate that I fast forward every time.

Grandma's pee or whatever, the pee in the gym? No, no, but that is crazy. The scene with the flash and the slow. motion and that song I hate it. At the end of Justice League? No, it's like the middle of it. It's a scene with the Flash. He's like saving a girl in the Snyder cut

and they're playing this really overly dramatic American Idol music and he's catching her in slow motion. Oh, right, yes. Right, it's like the Flash and Iris classic origin scene. Exactly. I know what I'm trying. With the truck. With the truck.

Classic. Classic, yeah. That was cut for a reason. That was done. That's a dog show. I was the song ruined it for me. For sure. Colin, before we move on, what's your favorite saw trap? My favorite saw trap. Yeah, see, this is the mentored. I really like the Chester Bennington one.

Crazy. It's like the, I think there's like clamps involved in like a car. Okay. Really good. The exploding face one is classic. Clamps. I can't imagine where those are going. With the head thing? Yeah. That one's classic. The heroin needles one is real

gnarly. That one's the same. That one is eaten. Jay, you don't want to see that one. That sounds horrific. You would hate that one. They died by heroin needles? It's like a junkie that they have as a trap victim. And they're like, you will now die by your own vices.

You know, like, for years. How many saws are there? How many saws are there? Thirteen or something. It's got to be maybe six or seven. Maybe nine? See, why can't they do that with like casino? then I'm all in

I bet you saw one made more money than casino that's why yeah you're right casino nine you know could be good dude casino nine I'm watching yeah has Scorsese made a sequel like no right

holy shit what a great question I thought when you said that I was like oh my brain's about to answer it I don't think he hasn't no yeah that's fucking for lack of a better word gangster took the words right out of my mouth man i was about to say that's gangster yeah tarantino's made one kill bill but it's part of a so i don't know if it came out separately

it made its own money okay i consider it a sequel it's a sequel it's a part too time goat sequel yeah oh i love it which which part do you like better one or two i think i like too i like the uh the kind of Japanese vibe of one, but the something like so serene about two. Um, where it's, it's more, it's kind of, it's really dialed in. And then the five

point palm exploding heart technique scene at the end is all time great. It's amazing. I love the, the bud, Michael Madsen shit too. Oh, he's incredible. He's so good. His life just being useful in Tarantino movies. It's crazy.

It is crazy. Oh no, I like them in something else what do I like him in shark nato five or something I like him in wider up with Kevin costner that makes sense oh that makes sense there's something else I just saw him in I'm not going to be able to think of it so you were like yo it's what the fuck is most of the time when I see him in something it's like a tbs original movie and I'm like what the fuck is Michael Madsen's Michael Madsen and Gerard Butler fire agents Girard deserves so much better than he's getting it. Yeah, what happened to Gerrard Butler?

Yeah, that's what, like, who does he owe money to? But I will say, plain kind of dope. Plains pretty sick. I didn't see that. I didn't see that. It's as insane as you want it to be. And the action is like brutal. Dude, he really is only in Tarantino movies.

Michael Matzic. Like good Tarantino movies. Tarantino movies and Shark Nato 5. And free willy. Yeah. But then Gerard Butler, his agent breathes. And Gerard's like, I'll do it. I could see them both as the villain in a Stephen Cigar movie.

Absolutely. It's coming any day now. Anyway. Mind force, huh? Mind force. Something else I like about Mind Force songs. We're not talking about, I mean, let me get this out of the way before we go to the other stuff. you do something that I'm all about.

Oh, let's hear it. You go pit to pit. Bro. There's something that I created with my brother, Jesse Sutherland, from all that war, called Mosh Three philosophy. Please tell me more. Enlighten us. Well, not every song has the ingredients to get to Mastrit. Of course.

But when you're talking about Pitt. to pit to pit. That's coveted. We were in a band that called Cobra Commander together. You probably could not find it. I don't think it exists. Nothing exists on MySpace anymore, right? Link in description.

Yeah, I don't think so. Cobra Commander. It's like Hudson Valley, Mosh bullshit. You know what I mean? So sick. Yeah. And we talked about how all our favorite bands and Jesse's band, all at war, will go pit to pit.

we'll go MASH one and then MASH two. And Jesse was like, bro, do you think Mosh three is possible without being stupid? Right. You know what I mean? Of course. I love this. And it is. And it is.

And if you can get to Mosh three in some songs, I feel like, I feel like Mosh four is overdoing it without a part in between. I don't know. Again, it depends on the degree. Does let me ask you this. Does Mosh 3 slowdown count? Like, does slowing down Mosh 3 halfway count as Mosh 4? Is that extended Mosh 3?

No, it can count as Mosh 4. Well, then Mosh 4 is entirely is absolutely possible. Okay. I'll tell you. One small step for man. One, I've left there for MASH 4. That's amazing. And Mosh 4 can pick up rather than slow down if it's all slow.

You know, and it depends what we're bouncing back and forth. Great point. What are examples of Mosh 3? if you have any off off the rip. Mosh three. Mosh two. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Condemned to suffer all that war.

Condemned to suffer goes three. Goes three mashes in a row. Condemned to suffer, condemned to drown in this bill. I'm trying to work out. I mean, technically it's just, it could be like six mosh farts. Yeah, yeah. Condem to suffer. I think only has one upbeat part.

if that i'm gonna have to do a study after this to make sure i'm right but i'm pretty sure contempt because then it goes that one starts off well na na we're mashing right away which is how insane is that far it's incredible it's incredible i mean they could condemn to suffer they're the band where that's that they haven't they haven't they don't suck and i don't think they ever will no they never will man they're there they're there's there are bolt thrower, you know, their hardcore's bolt thrower, where they're just, they're never going to stop rocking. You just blew my mind

with how on point that statement was incredible. They're our bull thrower. I'm going to, can I use that? It's yours. That's amazing. It's on the record. But I think the reason they get to it on condemned to suffer is they start with Moss 1. Yeah. Oh.

And then they do one. Then they do then they do gagagagagong, goagga, gong, gag, that really, that really, that slower one right in the middle. And then they get to another one, but I think there's a fast part in between. You're saying the Mosh 3, you're

talking within the confines of an entire song or within a section. A section. So just pit to pit to pit to pit. Pit to pit. They start that song off that way. Boom, boom, boom. Let me see if I've gone pit to pit to pit. Let me do some math here.

I believe you have. I believe you have. I've at least come. I've tackled it. I've witnessed it. World War 5 for sure. World War 5 is pit to pit to pit live. Ah, tickling. Now that's fucking cool. When you go Moss 3, only live?

Only live exclusive. You got to come and see it. I can't give it to you on the recording. Moss 3 live mentality. Be Harder's two. Finish the job is two. Trying to think. I don't think harm's way.

Two. I mean, two is usually the move. That's the move. Yeah. And you can't, you can't go, you can't abuse three. No, you really can. That's the right. It's sparing.

I mean, I'm not, I'm not seeing it. It's like your best mosh move. You can't abuse it. You can't do it too much. You got to save it. What's your favorite move?

Oh, a three kick combination. Yeah. A three kick combination. Frontal kick into a spin kick into a back kick across the edge of the pit. So, that's my, Right foot forward.

Right foot forward. Left foot comes around. Comes around. And then you hit and then reverse the trajectory. Wow. I haven't figured out the back kick yet. There's a few different ways. I don't have the balance for it.

My equilibrium doesn't support back kick science. I don't think I've ever thrown a spin kick. That's so sad. It just wasn't. It's not my thing. You got to change up your pants. situation. Because mine, I'm telling you.

And clearly I did too. Yeah. I saw that on stage in front of everyone. That's rough, man. It's rough. But I was wearing some man-scape dundies that kept me real secure. So we're good. Everything was fine.

Colin, what's your favorite move? Yeah, I wanted you to take a step back and show us. Like this one? Like that? Where you come there and come around? That's the one. that's the one I'm not there yet

but you know maybe that's my new year's resolution that's why I have well yeah it's February we'll get there my favorite move has gotta be the stick man

yeah that's I mean that's classic you can make that look cool it's fucking crazy it's beautiful it's graceful that's the thing that we're like you could get somebody

in a hardcore with that move alone no music some of the it's good a more dangerous move them people realize because if you do it right, you're real dizzy. You're like a little thrown off with where you are.

Oh, I'd be falling left. You ever like, like do it across the whole floor? I mean, I have moments where I'm like, I hope I don't die. I don't even know where I am. Straight up. I feel like Taz. F's fucking injured being like.

Tass. Straight up Taz. Yeah, the sick man is just so, so. He would, he, he snapped with that one, you know? Yeah. No. Oh, man. The video?

in the music video when he does it? It's the greatest moment in any music video ever made. Oh, I don't know. It's better than bad, Scorsese.

It's better than... What about in the biohazard video where they're mashing with a pit bull, holding a pit bull? That one... I told, I had a moment with my wife where I said,

that's the greatest moment in music video. The Bobby Spin being... Bobby Spin is good. Being in my life forever. Yeah. Isn't Marauder, some of the Marauder guys in the punishment video too? Oh yeah, all those guys are around of thorns, man, they're moshing on the Brooklyn Bridge, I'm pretty sure.

I mean, that, I think that's it. I think that kind of thing. What does that? Was that permitted, you think? No, I saw something. I forget if I saw, what did I see? Or maybe Drew Stone told me. I can't remember, but no, I heard they just did that.

I heard they just did that because he always, and I could be getting the details a little wrong, but that dude who also filled, I think he filmed the down by law, madball video too. He always had like stock rolls of film to use. So he had a camera and had stuff with him. And he was like, you know, he just invited all those maniacs up on that bridge. The rest is history. Was he the through and through guy too? I don't know. You just do all that stuff?

I don't know. he did a lot of that stuff in the 90s. I'm not sure. Those two I'm sure of, but I'm not sure what else. The craziest. Well, I mean, that's quite a resume.

Yeah. The craziest to me, and I think we briefly talked about this on the last episode, Colin, but is Slayer playing in front of the pyramids. Yeah, that's fucked, man.

But, like, and like, actually there, so they had to get permits. What did that cost? I have no. And, like, why? Why? You know?

Like, for the video? Yeah, I don't know, fucking go to the pyramids or something. And then they're like, okay. So sick. Yeah, it's crazy. I think I read somewhere that it was the last time that like anyone was ever allowed to perform and film in front of them.

They're like very protective about it now. Nice. It's a good last time. How do you guys feel about music videos? Have you? I fucking despise them. I hate them. Making them. Have you made one yet?

I won't. You won't. That's not for me, man. You and you and Brody King are really firmly on the same page there. I have ones I like and I think are good, but I'm not trying to see me and one. Be the guy doing that stuff. For me, I don't mind the finished product, but it's actually like a pretty miserable experience. It's humiliating.

Oh, dude, the fucking dead body one is dope. That one's sick. But that's one of the best ones I've seen. And we did that in a way where, that it was like this cannot be this humiliating thing because we're just kind of rock in the desert real quick. It's one shot, right? For 30 seconds, one shot, done.

That's so cool, man. That's cool. That's fun. That was like a way to be like, how do we not make this corny thing and how do we make somebody maybe want to watch this twice? Pretending to play your own song for hours and hours is, like, brutal. Singing is the word.

I didn't do a music video, but we did do something where we went on a show. when during COVID when there wasn't music and um we had to play a song a couple times and I didn't even like that. I didn't even like that. Just not as this. Just wasn't for me. That's all.

You know what I mean? I think it's dope. I think if, if other bands are doing it and I want other bands to do it to do it, do it because as a fan, I want to see my favorite bands. There's definitely, it's not for me. There's ways. There's ways around doing the corny shit for sure. And some bands have figured it out.

live stuff mixed in, you can't beat it. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like the TUI fucking believe video that we talked about. That one's awesome. That's fucking sick, man. It's just a guy smoking crack and then like the best show you've ever seen. Yeah.

No, yeah. If I do, if we did like a full song music video, I mean, we do shit on like social media and stuff. But if we did do one, it would just be insane. Moshing. Yeah. Just Moshing. Probably not even. We wouldn't even be in the video.

much just moshing you could redo you know that sick at all video with the with the mosh moves yeah like teaching you the mosh moves it's one of the first hardcore videos i ever saw man i think it's the that and punishment we're like on the same day on channel four 72 tv x yeah probably um you could redo that with just other dudes mosh on showing you mosh that could be cool i think the first like hardcore related video i ever saw was a live a f i like early A-FI playing through. What's the intro on Black Sails? The through-ar bleeding.

Strength through wounding. That's it. What a friend. They opened with that. It was just like crazy, you know? I remember, I think Chris had downloaded it on like lime wire or something. I remember that. The first music video you saw, though?

No. Oh. What would that be? Had to be. Had to be punishment. Or. Iconic. Dude, terror

had one very early on from one with the other... Overcome video. And that was on like fuse. Did they had a video for that? Yeah, yeah. They're just kind of walking around L.A. and like singing. It's that crazy.

If you look at that now, you'll be like, oh, that's that guy, that guy. There's Luis. There's... Oh, really? That's how that's sick of it all video is. I think one of those guys is, isn't Lord Isaac one of the monsters?

I'm sure. I would imagine. I haven't seen it since like 1999, probably. So I have the... Yeah, you know what's crazy? That's like my least favorite Sikivit All song. People love it. That one was not for me.

Post, post, just look around. I'm not like revisiting much. But that and before, those are something. That's a single ball is a band where I can revisit like once every three years. Okay. God damn. They're a band I forget about. Biohazard kind of is too.

But I know those songs so fucking well that it's like I don't need to listen to them. What's your stance on State of the World Address? I'm in the first Biohazard album I got, so I like it. I think it's one of the most ambitious hardcore records ever written. I could totally see that. That's a great way to put it. It's long as hell.

It's creative. it's it's like weird but still hard it sounds major label audience friendly but it's also still hard weird and hard is really difficult to do stuff to do oh that's only a few bands have ever gotten it right my friends only a few in my opinion and the thing is about that is once you get weird and hard a couple times you don't need any more weird and hard sure so like I like I love like my favorite

weird and hard band of all time is dead guy I fucking love dead guy but I don't need any other dead guys that's where I'm kind of weird no I get that they were definitely bordering on omission from our master killer list

to me it was close but yeah you're right I think Converge is probably my favorite. Weird hard. Weird hard. Definitely. They're one of the best at it.

But they balance weird hard on like their, on its own, on their own wavelengths though, you know? Absolutely. But then there's, dude, we didn't talk about this when we were talking about Jane Doe, but there's like parts on that record where I've listened to that record a thousand times. But like, what's the Phoenix in flight, Phoenix and Flay, like the two? Like the really fast double, double, there's no snare in that whole part. there's just like things Ben being like a

yeah and it's just like things that like like that's a really weird thing to do in a really crazy part yeah you know so I think they're like the kings of of it but there's a few others

yeah I would argue your list is short Jay your weird hard yeah my list is short I mean some of the especially the early converge I mean I can remember where I was the first time I heard Jane Do that's how explosive that hour them was if you were there when it dropped it was no matter what you were into you were stopping to

listen to it they're definitely one of the one of the best but for me the list is short also for me another one on the list is um a legendary unknown hudson valley band called dissolve they're there actually i take back what i said they're weird and hard big body hard i mean they'll they'll crush dead body they'll crush that guy they'll crush that guy almost said dead body but i didn't mean i meant that's okay you're probably right probably crushed empty physically no i that's one of the reasons why i i i you guys are so sick is you have some death mental shit that reminds me of them because they were they were on some morbid angel shit a lot i know you guys are too big time and that's my shit i love that some of that little one with the you skip the middle one but you do

the third one oh my god give it to me every time Love it. I'm a huge morbid angel fan. Huge morbid angel fan. Yeah, they're the master killer of Florida death metal. They're the marauder of Florida to me, you know. Okay. Who else is, wait, wait, who else is in?

Wait, I feel like there's another one I might. Well, Diozai's pretty fucking sick, dude. Yeah, of course. I love Diocese. Love them. So this is not like criticism, but they have the, the kind of death metal stigma of not really knowing when to end the song. You know?

Whereas Morb an Angel, there's a payoff 99% of the time. Camptorps, I'll say there's a payoff 100% of the time. Which is crazy. Yeah. There's always a thing at the end. You're right, though. There isn't always with Morbid Angel. And those songs do not make it on my death metal bangers only playlist.

but deicide the couple that do are like the best death metal songs ever you know i mean for me it's morbid angel i like them better than d aside but um i'm with you they're a marauder you know i'm with you on that i'm with you on that is obituary from tampa yeah oh yeah they're and they're fucking i'm i'm more a morbid angel guy more than i'm just like in my top three death metal bands 100% Covenant is the master killer of Florida death mode For me it's

That was my state That's amazing No particular order Morban angel Bolt thrower I gotta think about Spot 3 I'm gonna have to get back to

It's got to be You might have to go local For me For that third Cannibal corpse Who? Suffocation problem I mean I love suffocation

I love suffocation I love suffocation. Long Island Boys. Yeah. Long Island Music Hall of Fame. Suffocation. Would you consider death a death metal band? Yeah.

Oh, then they're my number three. Really? That's fair. Yeah, I'm a big death guy, but not everybody will fucking say their death metal. You know what I mean? Oh, I think. They just kind of invented the like Prague. Totally.

Totally. Mm-hmm. But they got on some like almost like, almost like, like, like from symbolic on, they're almost on. And it's my favorite shit. So this isn't a knock. But they're almost on some like Ozzy Osbourne death metal shit. But then they like mix the Ozzy shit with the hardest.

Oh, dude. Chug pattern. Bug it on. Bug it on. Bug it on. Yeah. They're crazy. What's the one the fucking scavenger of human sorrow?

You know that one? Do I know scavenger? Bro, you just went up to my soul. Open the blind. and looked into my soul, bro. If Mike Shaw listens to this, Mike, you hear this? Dude, that's the kind of shit I would send Mike when we were writing new Lord's shit.

I would be like, like, do this, but stupid. That's, and that, I'm telling you. Do this, but with a rap drumbeat under it. That's how, that's literally how I write music. So we were the same guy, you know. Speaking my language. You take a thing, you play a long, it, you make it stupid.

You have you have God's hate self-titled. That's all you do. Dumb. But on purpose. On purpose. So it's smart.

And it makes, I was about to say that makes it smart. Exactly. Just like Colombo. I've been watching a lot of that lately. Have you? Yeah, because it showed up on the tube.

You guys fuck with the Tubey app? I've been hearing about this Tubeby. Tell me about it. You don't know it, my friend. I know the, I know the, the very basic premise of it. But I, I don't know.

It feels like, like I know Dom, my buddy, Dom Bargis watches to me. You might hear that and I go, Dom, you're insane. Let me give you a multitude of, a spectrum of things you might find on two, you might find Robocop 3. Wow. You might find King of New York. You might find the Godfather 3. You might find Ghostbusters, the cartoon.

Oh. You might find. find the child of the Incredible Hulk. Wow. You might find Columbo. I think I definitely will. This shit is all over the place. You feel,

okay. What is the, what's the premise of the app? It's just an app with stuff. It's just a free app with all free shit movies. It does have ads. I'm out. It does have ads.

I'm out. Brendan Greer, I'm sorry. You can't do it. I'm sorry for not watching your ads. No, I can't do it, man.

Okay. I'll, does it have a, let me ask you this. Does it have a four and I believe it does Add free version I believe it does

He's back to me I got too many apps man I got apps coming out My fucking ears over here bro Yeah but you I mean you could write them off You write off them apps You say Mindforce likes to watch movies together

I'm writing them off I should Yeah They won't even let me use them at my job Apps Because of copyright laws Yeah it's so whack Don't even get me started on it

You got to wheel the TV in On the old fucking Bucket No I use I do something That the kids taught me With the hot spot and I make my phone do it. I couldn't even explain it to you.

I don't know. They do it. Wow. That's incredible. Let me ask you this. The world's finding a lot about me tonight. This is great stuff, man. Yeah, this is good.

I'm loving it. Let me ask you this. You can't hear my dog, can you? I'm sorry. No, not at all. It's a great gate on that thing. Don't worry. Let me ask you this.

Mind forces point. Mm-hmm. And just for the right, I'm not trying to get you here because my answer is yes. Okay. Do you encourage violence? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Big time.

Yeah, of course. I mean, I beg for violence. I mean, I, you know, I believe the last show we played, I called for a stylistic expression of violence. That's gorgeous. Yeah, right? That's beautiful. Well set. It's not, it is a martial art, you know.

Like break down what those words mean and tell me moshing isn't that. Yeah. There's definitely an art to not getting knocked out. If you watch some of the best moshers, there's an art to like bouncing around. I don't know. I think it's true. Well, it's kill or be killed, truly. Oh, it's worse than ever these days.

It's really. The more you embrace that. You think so? You think it's worse than ever? Yeah, and this is something like I like to put out there on the record because, I mean, I haven't been here forever, but

been around a while. You know, I mean, I saw, I was at the satisfaction record release show for Hey Breed. I was at legendary, all out war shows. I've seen a lot of legendary shit. And I've been around a lot of scary shit.

And I think when it comes to the moshing, I think it's crazier now. And this is why, hear me out. Back then, only a couple of the craziest motherfuckers could get away with the way everyone is moshing now. And back then, people were quicker to fight when they got hit. You know, now if you fight when you got hit, you're an asshole. The whole show is throwing you out. You're kind of a pussy.

and like there are ways it was way scarier then but not on the dance floor i think the people were scarier at shows and i think show like for like i think like someone would stab you in the venue more than in that way it was scarier but when it comes to the actual mashing yeah i think it's more violent now i also think it was scarier in um where the where the shows were like you had to follow a treasure map to some of these shows. Leaving from the car to the venue door, the parking lot, almost getting robbed, stabbed. And that way it was way scarier where the shows were.

But I mean, motherfuckers are just, motherfuckers with pink hair are punching each other right in the fucking face. Killing each other. They're even killing each other these days. It's awesome. It's the best thing ever. Yeah. It's the best thing ever.

It is, I mean, it's like why do, why do what we do if we don't want that, you know? That is to the core of you, Colin, that is your ethos. It really is. I don't know about you guys, but when I'm writing like a mosh part, like I'm envisioning the fucking warfare. It's, it is a visual thing. Every mosh part is a scientific, it's a science project. Okay. And there's not like,

Writing an original Mosh part now is so much harder than writing like a hook. Yeah, well, of course. A chorus? Oh, I agree. I agree.

That da da da da da da da da da da da da da da. Done. There's a chorus. That was it. I just wrote one. Yeah. Mosh part that makes me feel something enough to visualize it in my mind.

You got to see it. I see, do you ever see like specific scenes? I see like, I'll see something from like maybe it's some type of mesh of a video I saw and something I saw live. Like when I was writing the new Lord shit, I was picturing a lot of like specifically Japanese mosh pits. Oh, the fucking, what's the one video? Something Mosh style two or whatever. I know, I don't know the name of it, but I know the one.

I'm talking about. It's like some of the shots are from low motherfuckers are spin kicking over the camera. It's like the dude's in the pit. And it's crazy because like they're. kind of Japanese my experience in Japan is that they mash very respectfully yeah yeah yeah it's like one guy at a time doing his thing and then the next guy goes it's like it's like a breakdance but the thing is it kind it was more like that back then like watch the videos you'll see it for yourself yeah the thing is a lot of older guys they want to feel like their time was they were

the craziest this and that but i think the videos speak for themselves watch the videos man I remember there was a big one I will say this I will say this when it comes to stage diving that shit's whack now it's bad motherfuckers need to

YouTube all that war 25 to life at the chance but Kipsy New York watch everything copy it it's not that hard figure it out well the thing that's crazy to me is people don't jump they just run

or they step and step and step You got a fucking jump. Just do a little leap. And land on your back. I'm more likely to catch you. If I can see, if you got some hang time, I know you're not going to hit me as hard.

I'm going for you if you do that. Most definitely. If you just fall on me, what the fuck? Get off me. You know? But flight is like, I feel like it's a,

there's the momentum is different. I can, I can safely escort you to the thing. You can kind of, yeah, it's like catching a heavy whatever. Yeah, I got you. I remember a very early, early in my hardcore life. There was like a, I think it was an American nightmare video of like a dude in a varsity jacket like floor punching to a part in, in a song.

And another guy like grabbed him to like stop him. And I remember I had this, this like preconceived idea when I first started going. going to shows that like you were trying to get away with something before someone else got you. And it was this, it was very, that's the Joe hardcore system of ethics there. He'll fucking get you, man. Dude, we were talking about it earlier and I almost brought it up. Three seconds. What? That's all you get on the stage. Three seconds. Oh, oh, yeah. Yeah. Um, there, it's, there's video proof of this. The killer was playing. This is hardcore at the old venue before they, they, they went

the electric factory. And I was moshing. I forget what song it was, but Joe was doing like spin kicks like in a loop, like exactly what you were talking about. In the video, he spin kicks me

in my baby blue shirt flat over and then in the same move picks me up. He's a pro. That's hard. In one week and I just... Legendary spin kicker for sure. Mount Rushmore.

Style, cap. the letters. That's what I love about Joe. He's got style, man. That's what's, that's missing from washing today. Style. A little, a little too much emphasis on violence and style goes. You can have both. You can absolutely have both. The most psycho masters, in my opinion, the guys that I thought were the craziest, had the most style, man. It was amazing. Give me, give me a name. Well, they're local guys. You want to know him. This dude Caesar, the singer of this band Beneath the Remains.

Mm-hmm. I mean, he was amazing. Yo, you ever see videos of Chaka from Byrne back in the day? He's actually, yes. Bro, he's a spin-kick pioneer. Wow. Wow. It's one of the first to bring that to the dance floor.

I mean, I know he's the reason why the oldest guys in the Hudson Valley started doing it. And I heard once, I don't know if it's true, because side note, I'm like really into like my style history. Oh, I mean, that's hard lore. It's fascinating. It is absolutely hard lore. That's what we're. And I had heard that the first, the first people to bring spin kick into New York City were from Boston. Wow.

And then a bunch of people in New York City started doing it. Yeah. I heard it was the wrecking crew. the record whoever the recon crew masters wow i don't know if it's true please confirm for us i wonder this is just what i've heard i don't know if it's true or now i wonder where that came from in the first place

like who was the first guy at a punk rock i think i think it was to this is my theory yeah i think the first spin kick was to the beetles i guarantee you it was fucking she's so heavy or something and that's a hard part bro Yo, I know, but some guy was, that's what I'm saying. And some guy was just like, I, I feel something.

I feel like. Why do I want to do fake karate? Yeah. That's my theory. I would love to know who the first guy to spin kick out of show was. I've never really thought about that. Beatles didn't play shows the second half of their career. It can't be true.

That first half, though. you tell me some girl wasn't so fired up to see John that she didn't spin kick I would bet my life savings on at least some kind of kick some something front maybe the back kick maybe that's where that came from

because I know the story of like like Rollins talks about it in the one in the American hardcore documentary where like everyone in DC was kind of just pogoing and then they all went to like California and then came back and it was like a stylistic change where it was like punching

and like actual violence. That's right. I love that kind of thing. Violence. A little Greg, EG.H. Fucking king, dude. King of Marshal. The thing is I seen him a lot back in the day because he was

always up by us and we were always down there because you guys ever get into it's another not known band you'd have to find it on band camp or YouTube this band called eye to eye no uh well they were they were part of that whole squad and um they're the they're the one band that nobody knows about now like a lot of those bands have gotten bigger now billy club everybody gets hurt irate um you know all those bands but another band that was in that whole crew was this band i to i to i. but they were from the Hudson Valley. And they were always playing with those bands,

and I was always seeing those guys. But there were some guys by us that, in my opinion, were just as legendary. I mean, the first dudes I ever saw wearing gloves were these two dudes, Maddie Campbell and this other dude, Sean Messler. And they were doing like crazy fucking crazy spin kicks into the crowd with gloves on and shit.

And I was like, yo, that's the coolest shit I've ever seen, you know? Yeah. pardon this interruption, but I believe you know what time it is. It's Manscape Time. Let's tell them what we got today, Bo. We got the all-new beard trimmer. Some might say the master killer of male grooming product. This bad boy has a million settings.

So many settings. So many more settings than the average trimmer, which only goes zero to five. This one goes. And think about it, you got to carry them all. True. the little bits and shit. This guy just stays on and you just ratchet them up. Just like the barbers

at the shop with the music and the quartets. You could have that at home now. It's basically what we're saying with Code Hardler, 20% off free shipping. They got the lawn mower of 4.0 the go-to, the goat two. You mowed your lawn recently? Today. But that's one of your business. My favorite is

the crop reviver. You just spray them. And look at that. You got shorts on. Wow. The beer trimmer came with all these little bells and whistles too. Beer oil, balm, shampoo, conditioner, brushes. You can get that VIP package and so much more with code hardlore 20% off and free shipping. It's also whatnot time, but let's talk about whatnot real quick. Let's talk about it.

I'm dying to talk about it. Click the link below. Join us. We're going to be putting some good stuff up there. What are we thinking? What are you thinking? Maybe a T-shirt. Maybe five T-shirts. That's what I'm saying. It's like, we can, we can do some hard lore for specific items that we have. I love that. And then the people get to have it. I'm going to put a guitar on there. Wow. That will fly. Let's see what, let's see what it was described to me as. This is, this is a good description.

We describe it as cameo meets evening. Right. But they like to say the most interactive place online to buy and sell hardcore vinyl records and music memorabilia. Back to the episode. You know who comes to mind for me, actually, Colin? Chris Morrissey, the elder. The Santa. The Santa. So good.

Pre-Pri-San Amash, you know, like. But then he was immortalized forever. That's the guy in the Santa Mosh video? Yeah. You guys know. He saw him. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's from Chicago.

Wow, man. Shout out. He was one of the first... Brother of a friend of the show... Yeah. Several friends of the show. It's a legend. That's a legend.

He was one of the first guys I saw like Two-Step. One of the first guys... He was like a pit for every band kind of guy. Very sick. God. I would kill to have that endurance back. Oh. But, yo, there's a lot of legends today, too.

Agreed. You know? A lot of legends today. They're out there. They're out there doing the work, you know? And then they start bands and they're the best bands ever. Best maschers are the best singers. In my opinion, that's what I think.

That's what I'm saying. Get off the mic if you can't spin kick. That's why if, yo, that's, if you want to start a band and you're young and you don't know who to get for a singer, ask the craziest masher. That's right. You'll be the best. You'll be fine. He'll dial in his voice.

It'll take time. But it'll be. sick of it, you know. Moshing indicates rhythm. Good moshing indicates rhythm. And knowing the part is half the battle. Knowing the part that makes people want to mosh. Exactly.

They have an indicate, they have the banger scanner is on. Yeah, well said, Bo. That's true. Beautifully said, Bo. God, Bo, Bo, Bo. You believe in ghosts? Yeah. I don't not believe.

Okay. That's kind of where I'm at. You know, I used to think I saw a ghost. And now I'm not so sure I have. I wonder if it was a type of sleep deprivation happening to me. I mean, I'll share the story if you want. I want you to believe. I want to believe.

That's the thing. It's like, I'm that dude that's like, oh, there's a ghost in there. Let's go in there. Where's this ghost at? You know? Same. Yes. So, you know, the story's a little weird, but when I was a little kid, I don't know, maybe five, I could be getting that age wrong because I was so small.

Sure. I was going through a traumatic time, you know, not to get heavy or anything, but my brother was dying at the time. He was in the hospital. So that's also, like, from what I've learned about sleep deprivation and traumatic time periods is also why I'm questioning what I saw. Okay. You know, but I saw this figure in the window next to my bed. It was a shadowy figure, and it had a hat that had like a long, he had a long hat that went up. And he had like two long brims that went like this.

Like it was like a man with a hat, right? That's scary. And it was like something. that like scared I lived like in fear of my whole life like it really traumatized me like I can remember calling my my nana in my nanny in to come and see me and um I was even scared to tell her what I would see because I even knew at that little age that she wouldn't what I saw couldn't be real you know and um yeah something I didn't I didn't really share with a lot of people only my parents really and a few other people I met

And then like maybe seven years ago, I watched this sleep deprivation documentary on Netflix. Have you guys seen it? No. Oh, you got to watch it. Okay. The shit is frightening, dude. No. Shit is frightening.

Um, and bro, what I saw, I started watching this. And then all of a sudden, this movie starts unfolding. And they start showing this stuff. bro I'm getting chills just thinking of it they showed what I saw like

exactly yes they showed what I saw and I got freaked out and they went on to explain people that have sleep deprivation share seeing these shapes like one of the things is you hear about the person looking at you

I don't know if you've ever heard of that people will see the guy in the room Yeah, yeah, yeah. What if they call him? There's a name for him. Like the hatman or something. The hat man, that's what it is. The what man?

The hat man. The hat man. So is the hat man is what you saw. A hat man. Oh, shit. So check it out. Another one, some people will, like, see somebody sitting on them sometimes. Yeah. Sometimes people will see a face.

But the thing is, all people see one of these things. Multiple people share seeing the hat man. Now, the Bow School of Thought thinks that some type of phenomenon of sleep deprivation that is the same. If you think about it, people dream about the same things. You know what I mean? Have you ever dreamt this man? You know, that's very good. Or have you ever dreamt going to school naked?

And then there's, you know, there's another school of thought that thinks, you know, it could be an entity from another dimension. He's fighting to get in and he can only get in when you're a little bit sweeping. But, yeah, man, the shit was frightening, and I did see that. I think watching that documentary and seeing a thing that you've held on to since you were a kid, that would like fuck me up. How would you feel? Would you feel? Would you believe a little bit, though? Yeah.

But it would just be so shocking. It, it, the hair on my back of my neck stood up, bro. The only people I had told about it Because I tried I can't tell anyone because people won't believe me I didn't tell it The only people that know this happened to me Were my parents so they were the ones I called up

I said you remember the fucking guy Used to be scared of with the hat I said you need to watch this And they were just like this is crazy Because they remember Did they remember vividly like you describing it? I talked about it forever I had nightmares for 10 years after seeing it

It really really really scared me seeing it. And also, you know, it was a crazy time in my life. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. It was a crazy time. You know, I lost my brother and shit. Condolences. And thanks.

And, you know, so, but from what I've read about trauma and sleep deprivation, you know, the skeptic in me just sides there. I'm not sure what I saw. I think I was just. But like an identical match to a thing you see, you know. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a silhouette of a guy with a hat. You can, if you, if you, if you Google sleep deprivation, I know, but it's like so universal that how I, like, I see no room for skepticism, you know? I mean, listen, man, the older I get, the more I start to believe shit.

I don't know what it is. Like, I've never been a God guy, you know, I grew up in a very, or, I shouldn't say that. I grew up very traditionally, Roman Catholic. Some of the rituals I like, but I've never been like a guy guy. You fuck with the wafer? You like that thing?

Not really. I don't like it. Not really. I never had it. That shit sucks, man. Always wanted it. They got them on Amazon? It's tasteless.

Is it really? Yeah, there's no flavor. Fucked the wafer. Give me the wine, bro. The wine. Even that, that was like all grape juice. I was an altar boy. I got caught drinking the wine once.

If I pull this on screen, this picture of the guy in the hat, is it going to bother you? No, no, no, no. Just making sure. Yeah, yeah, thank you. Let's see him. That's it. That's it. Right there.

Right there. That's him. This guy? That's the one you just pointed out. That's exactly what I saw on my window. I mean, that's scary. Much like Alex Baldwin's The Shadow. Totally.

Yo, good film, bro. Good movie. Good film. It's all in the movies. There's a little kid. Groundbreaking 90s, CGI. He's got that big snows. That big nose that grows.

That's right. I love that. Why? Why didn't get a big nose, man? He becomes Italian out of nowhere. I was thinking of Billy Zanes, The Phantom. Oh, that's a good one, too.

You know what else I would put to finish that trilogy out? The Rocketeer. Rocketeer is incredible. I love the Rocketeen's. The Rocketeer. The Rocketeer. The Rocketeer, the Phantom. Yeah, man.

The 90s, like, radio show superhero trilogy. Yeah. And then the shadow broke up in a car. Yo, you want to hear something crazy, man? Growing up, my dad had his dad's, like, audio cassettes of those radio versions. And growing up, I would listen to him with my dad. So, like, when that movie came out, I was like the only kid in school who actually knew who the shadow was. Wow.

Interesting. That's like what those were before their time, you know, because people, I'd do that now. I listen to, listen to my stories, you know? Yeah, they were podcasts, man, that's all. They were just podcast. We're just doing the shadow. That's what hard we were doing.

It was our noses. Well, mine's pretty crooked and it's kind of long. My dad and I would listen to fucking Bill Cosby stand up. Wow. Which at the time was delightful. It was family-friendly, very family-friendly, clean. Very clean.

Little did you know. Little did anyone know, apparently. I'm not going there. Yeah, we don't need to go there. I never own the DVD. Himself, right? Bill Cosby himself. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, it's just pretty good, man. It was devastating to me as a Jello fan. It was devastating to me as a user of the slang term Cosby sweater. Cosby sweater is still. I cannot say that anymore. It's just. Oh, wow.

It's like wife beater. You know, that's like just as dark as that. Dude. Which I've said, I've said wife beater on stage a few times. And luckily I didn't get in trouble. But all I meant.

You remember Facecast? No. What's that? What's that? Yo, Facecast, the band with the song, Wifebeater? I'm the wife beater?

I'm not, I'm wearing one. I am the wife beater. I'm, pretty sure they're upshade you. I don't know this. Damn, we're putting facecast over. No, we're not.

There's a music video. I swear to God, this is real. Not like I'm wearing a wife. No, the guy he used the wife beater. Holy shit. It's crazy. I grew up thinking that wifebeater was derogatory

as in calling the people who wore just wife beaters. Like wife beaters. Like I grew up to know that as like a derogatory thing. I grew up in a place where there weren't a lot of Italian Americans or like people who would wear them who weren't necessarily wife beaters. Is that not what the... It was like white trash people. No, the same is

trailer park. The same for me. I mean, I grew up in an Italian-American family, but nobody in my family wore white feeders. Yeah, Bo, what are you trying to say, man? But all the white trash people did, Bo. It was the same for me. No, what are you talking about? Fucking Tony Soprano wears a in every fucking episode. Yeah, I didn't grow up around people with white beers.

I don't know any of Italian. He does, but like... Well, because what's the other name for? Undershirt. I don't know. What's the third name for? Jay. I literally only know white beaer.

Really? So this is interesting. What's the fourth name then? Listen, my family's part Italian. I can say this. It was Dego T's. Holy shit. That was the other name for him, and we would say that.

So that's an interesting. difference in cultures there. That's crazy. And like calling him a Dago wasn't a big deal. That's what the shirt was. We never called them. I never called them undershirts.

Ever. I'm going to start calling them honky tops. Taking them back. I'm going to start calling him Dago T's. You really never heard of that? I never have. I never have. But you know. Nobody ever wanted to say it to you. I always heard what wife,

wife feeder. If you look up Daegotie on Google, the first thing is a very buff Italian-American guy. Well, if you look up facecast, the wife feeder, I bet you'll see something else too. But don't worry, they're going to see plenty because I'm putting it in here.

It's a, I think they're from Troy. Really? I am the wife feeder. That's crazy. Facecast Band. Sounds Spotify? Today's awful metal video is HXC Titans facecast. with the song,

Boyfe Beard. FaceCast refers to themselves as a comedy hardcore band. So they were doing a bit. Oh, okay. They're doing it. Okay. They weren't like proudly beating their wife.

That's what I thought. It was a bit. Crazy bit. Albany. Crazy bit. Yeah, 118. People got crazy then.

They really did. People got crazy. So true. What was the one, like, the one really well-known comedy hardcore band? Good, clean fun. Good, clean fun.

That's right. Speaking of darkest era, I have a hard time with that, man. Yeah. I'm trying to think if I like any funny. I like fun things, fun hardcore, like I'm in this band out for justice. We're kind of like fun. Right. But not funny.

You know what I mean? I don't know if that makes sense. I've said many times, and Colin is the opposite, but I have no time in my life for musical comedy whatsoever. I'm not going to ever listen to Weird Al as the goats. I'm not going to listen to it. I know you fuck with Weird Al. Most definitely.

I'm a hypocrite, though, because I don't like it in hardcore, but I will fucking put the Lonely Island album right in my car. My man. And I will sing it very loudly. I will say there's a difference. I especially don't have room for it in hardcore.

You know what I mean? It's just there's something about it with, I don't know why. I just trying to think if I like it in metal. I don't know if. I don't think I... No, I'm not... Are you at home listening to fucking death clock, you know?

Yeah, I don't even know what that is. Yeah, exactly. But Lonely Island? Ah. Those are incredible songs that happen to be funny. I'm glad to say, there's a great song. It's like, just well-written songs. Are all of his songs spoofs?

Lonely Island? I'm just saying in general. I literally only know like Amish Paradise and Fadden. So for Weird Al, he has non-Spoof songs that he plays. plays on tour, but I don't think those go over as well. We want to hear fat, you know? We want to hear all the other ones. And you know what? Some of the hip hop I listen to, some of the lyrics,

I don't know if they're silly, but they make me laugh. They're fun. They're fun. Some of the shit is so crazy that it's fun. Yeah, yeah. I mean, this is one of my favorite musicians, this dude, rock Marciano. He says, crazy shit, man, hilarious shit. Like, what's the real difference? there, you know? He knows it's funny.

Oh, he's, he's probably cracking up writing it, dude. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, they know it's funny. That's a funny thought. Funny's funny. Weird Al? Very fun. Good, clean fun. And you know, I'd say, Bo, I'm definitely a hypocrite because there's some funny, fun stuff on Pillars of Ivory. So. Why is that different, though? I don't know. I view that differently.

It just feels more self-aware, you know. Right, because you're not, you're not like, you're doing a bit, but you're not like really doing a bit. No, yeah, yeah, that's a good way to put it. No, it's real. You mean everything you're saying, but it just happens to be fun. Yeah, we were really high. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Is that, how special is that for you doing a band with Aaron?

Oh, man. It's like playing basketball with Michael Jordan, man. Amen. It's like, first off, I mean, death threat, I got a death threat shirt on right now. I said last week on the show, Peace and Security is the best hardcore record from 2000 to 2010. Okay. Okay. I think Dead at Birth is the greatest hardcore song written of the 2000s.

I love that. I've said that. Excuse me. I stole that from Mike Shaw. He said that first. I had a take in the last episode where I said, Can't Stop One Stop is the best. Great song.

The best hardcore song of that era. Because it gives you everything and it's a minute and a half. I mean, it's like literally, the lyrics are scary. The lyrics are good. The music's good. It's got a breakdown. It's got a fast. It's got everything out.

It kind of follows the perfect mind force formula. It's a great length. I was just about to say it's a great length. That's a great contend. Bo. It's respectable. I got to stick with debt of birth for me. Peace and security, I think, is like unmatched. It's between that one with the underdogs, right?

Yeah. For that error. That's... Are you a piece of security, your favorite death rat? Oh, yeah. Okay. And I love Last Days and shit. I'm a last days guy, man.

I can't help it. I love that. You don't need to help it. That's the thing that you could do. They both are there for us. I love them all. I fuck with it all. But doing that with Aaron, man.

Yeah, I was just going to say, watching you guys, here's a good example of what we were talking about of the fun shit. Watching you guys at Sound infuri. As somebody who I'd never seen you. And as like an edge guy, I was having a fucking blast watching. Yo, dude, straight-edge dudes are our biggest fans. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You get high so we don't have to.

No problem. The soldier is taking all the bullets and arrows or stuff where the kid is sleep. sleeping that's you guys were. And then with me, Bo and I are asleep. We just sound asleep. That's beautiful, though. I know you're just as big of a pizza enthusiast as, as Aaron as, as I am.

I was just that Aaron spot this past weekend. How was it? How was it? Fucking. Popping, dude. Really? Is it popping? He has, first off,

he can accommodate anybody. Like, you can show up with your vegan friends, anybody. And also, too, Aaron the same way we have years of experience writing Marsh Parts. Aaron has years of experience, experimenting and creating pizza all over the world. In New York City, in L.A., all over, man.

And he, like, right before he even opened this pizza place, he did a tour of all the different pizzas in Italy to find new recipes and shit. Like, that's not, like, that's real deal. like this dude went to Italy and did tasting of all these different Italian pizzas and tried to bring this home and bring it to the Hudson Valley. I, uh, I, there's a Roberta's here now. Okay, that's his, that's his OG spot.

Yeah. Which I, I asked for his recipe there and they made it for me. I think it's the three kings or the three emperors or something it's called. He showed me some crazy, he showed me a few from there. He showed me some of my favorite pizzas from there. You ever have the Carbonara pizza? No. Bro.

I'll go today. Talking to you about this, like, I just wish you could be here tomorrow and I could just take you on a tour. I know. We'll... So Aaron, when Aaron moved to the Hudson Valley area

a few years ago, he brought me to a place that somebody he worked with at Roberta's had started in a meeting in New York. And he had me try two pies there. So it's your girl. No. Can somebody get Tutsi out of here? Tutsi not now.

We're talking. We're talking. Pyes. I know. She heard the word. She heard the word. So the two pies I had was the Carbinar pizza, which is like a Carbinar sauce, but pizza version. Instead of tomato sauce, you got egg yolk. Like to make this, you crack the egg yolk in a plastic bag, poke it, and put it on like sauce. Does it bake with the car? carbon arsau sauce or is that kind of put on at the end?

You put the egg yolk on after. But there's a few other ingredients. Just look up the ingredients are out there. Or just hit up Aaron on Instagram or whatever. Is it really peppery? Yeah. It's very peppery. And it's, and it's, um, there's a meat on there too.

I can't remember what meat he puts on there. But the other pie besides the carbinaura pie that he showed me, you'll, you'll see it a few, a bunch of places and you'll hear it called either the bee sting. Some people call it the heartthrob. See, the bee sting I had at Roberta's as well. Okay. Incredible. Is it a hot honey? That's the one, but that's a Roberta's recipe. That's, yeah, it's the hot honey. And I think it's the hot super set or the hot pepperoni. I'm not sure. Some people use different things. But yeah, it's the sweet hot. It's the sweet and hotness. It's crazy, man.

Getting into spicy foods within the last few years and then discovering hot honey pizza like blew my mind. I can't do a whole pie of it, I'll be honest. No, no, I got to split it with someone and get something. Yeah, yeah. Even like a personal joint, Colin? I could do a personal one. Okay. So that's such a, that's so rare of an experience for me.

I could eat. I need, yo, let me tell you, don't let the skinniness fool you, my friend. I don't, I don't. I have to. I'm literally on a doctor's diet right now because of what a pig slob I've been. Oh, dude. I've been having to be fucking, bro. It doesn't end in a good place. I'll leave it at that. Okay. I see. But I mean, I'm a harsh version. Like, do you eat vegetables? Barely, dude. Bro. You know the lettuce and them Big Macs?

Bro, my wife sent me to get lettuce the other day. I didn't know how to buy it. Like I didn't even know Like I try to tell people like I know I got Spring mix or something Romaine Romaine babe Classic

Romaine's great Yeah Romaine Romaine's classic They always got them eco-lib outbreaks I still though even though I'm eating healthier now I'm not fucking with lettuce man Lettuce isn't from me Lettuce sucks

It's just water I fuck with like spinach And shit like that See I don't like spin I'd take a spring mix over Spinole Dude cooked spinach is one of the worst things.

It's the worst food ever. Yeah, it's terrible. But all I've eaten my whole life is pasta, different type of breads, meats, and fast food. You are blessed genetically. Well, see, that's the thing, bro, is I'm thinking, oh, I'm not, I'm healthy like this because I'm not gaining any weight. And it's been, it's like, it's, it's starting to like cause injuries with me and shit. Like my body's so inflamed from eating so poorly my whole life that I'm as I get older I'm getting injuries a lot quicker because of my diet.

You got to do that. That's one thing. You know, there's a whole bunch of factors, stress, all that shit. Sure. Colin's method is genius. What's his method? He works out like a fucking maniac and takes care of himself so that he can then be a I'm falling off.

I work out like a motherfucker, but I'm telling you, man, like, man, getting old is a bitch. I'll leave it at that For the past two months I've been eating gluten-free Yo is My wife's on it It's miserable It's rough

I have two cheat days a month Where I just fucking go insane But I gotta keep doing it Because I feel I feel better Oh you feel better Dude you know

If you feel better That's it The only person That has made gluten-free pizza that has been good is Aaron. There you go. How far are you from Tommy B's? 40 minutes.

Holy. My goodness. So that's a trek if you want to. I mean, you know, when you're living in the Hudson Valley, that's really not that far, man. Things are far apart in the Hudson Valley. Everything's 40 minutes? Kind of.

Yeah, kind of. Everything's 40 minutes. It's a lot of forest out here, man. Right. Gorgeous. Yeah. I bet. What's your favorite style of pizza?

Mm. Your two days are coming up. I like your classic New York or your Neapolitan. I love a Neapolitan. That's probably my favorite. Neapolitan is your favorite? Probably, yeah. Wow.

It's just so easy to make them without love, you know? Mm. The thing. Because you can make them, like we could make them at home, and it's not going to be the same. What I love about them is the same thing I love about Hayfu. It's so simple.

Yeah. But if the guy making it is using the right ingredients, it's the best shit ever. Wow. I got no counter argument yet. That's the thing is you can have neopause. A lot of places you go, like there's all these spots in Brooklyn now. Every other fucking blocks got a neapolitan spot. That's my problem.

And it's the same thing. And none of it's bad. No. But bro, my friends, I could take you to Posto Pizzeria and Reimbeck, New York. you'll never be the same again. I want to never be the same. You will never be the same again. It's rare to experience that with the Neapolitan Pots.

Because that's probably my favorite pizza of all time, my favorite place. And, you know, I'm not saying it's the best. There is no best. Everybody has their favorites. That's right. My favorite is not in New York City. It's in the Hudson Valley. Posto.

Do you think there's some like regional bias there, though? you know, it's, it's, it does it, is it nostalgic? You tell me after you try it. I will. Um, it's been, it's been, it's been, it's been, it's been, it's been, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's in. I will. Um, it's, it's, it's, it's in the, I mean, don't get me wrong. The city's got some great spots, some of the best spots, some of my favorite spots ever. DeFara. You ever have that? Brooklyn. I haven't had Defar yet. It was too, uh, dude. I think it was too deep for us to go to, but we went to L&B. That's fucking good.

Did you go to any places on Mulberry Street in Manhattan, Little Italy? Probably all Brooklyn. We were mostly doing Brooklyn. It was like Joe's, Ellen B. Joe's is fucking popping. There's a Joe's on Mulberry Street. That's one of my favorites. It's like, that's like movie New York pizza, you know?

You know what you want and you know you're getting it. Definitely. It's consistent, but it's not going to like. That's kind of my big problem with some of the New York pizza. Is that it's all the same? John's on Bleaker was kind of... Where else did you go? Where else did you go?

Johns and Bleaker industry was to me... Oh, I haven't been to that spot, bro. It's unbelievable. Really? Unbelievable. There's a place that... the like the local guys always we've been like half a dozen times I think it's like little anthony's in Brooklyn no you're in Brooklyn yeah you're in Brooklyn yeah you're

talking about little Vincent's is it little Vincent's the cold cheese place no no no no it's in it's in Brooklyn for sure how do you feel how do you feel about the different pizza experiences are you down with them all because I am man I love pizza absolutely and the different regional styles I'll eat them three meals a day, three days a week. I tell you what's tied for me with Posto and I can't

as a New York individual, I cannot say it's better, but bro, Connecticut pizza? Miss Sally and Mr. Frank Pepe have done something. You know?

Who, I mean, so who's yours out of the two? I'm a Sally's man. Okay. A little a little bit of a contrarian. But it's, you think so? I think a little bit, maybe. I don't know. I think maybe now,

but it wasn't always, Sally was the OG, you know? From what I, from my perspective, Sally was like, I mean, you can't,

you can't go wrong. It's, it's amazing. It's amazing. I'm a Frank Pepe's guy, but that's because it's what I had first. Sure.

It's what I have first. Probably the same for me. I've come to a bit of a crossroads in my pizza journey where I'm, I think I'm done with like deep dish Chicago style shit. I'm just kind of over it.

I like it. It's good. Lumanates is. Once a year is a good call, bro. Once twice a year. So the thing is is, but friends come on tours. They come to town.

They want to go. I mean, I'm going to want it if I, I'm dying for it. You're going to have to show me. Yeah. I mean, we got the places and I know where it's good and it's great.

But I'm just like, Detroit style shit is right there. And how do you guys feel about the Detroit style craze right now? It is, it's definitely, it's a fad. Definitely a fad. It's a little much for me. Back off a little bit. But I agree.

Like there's like 12 Detroit style places that just opened here. Two of them are genuinely great. I, when Detroit style is done right, it's fucking unbelievable. Because you get the, the satisfying, you get the satisfying bite that you get. from Chicago style shit, the deep dish shit, but then it's like airy. You don't feel like garbage afterwards. When we go to Pequods, I can only eat two slices.

Yeah, that's a, you're fucked up. I can demolish an eight corner. No, I refuse to not demolish it. You know what I mean? So I just, I don't know, I'm a bit of a convert. It makes me sad as a Chicago. Do you guys make pizza at all? Fuck no, dude.

If I'm gonna make it, I want to make the dough. I want to make it. I'll send you my grandmother's dough recipe. I want Nona's recipe. I need that. And what's cool about that is, is I don't make a lot at my house, but my few items, my few dishes, I got some, I got some guff behind them. Like my French toast is pretty popping. My pizza is off the chain.

But Aaron's helped me so much even with that. Sure. You know, we've made pizza together in my kitchen. It's fucking amazing. Is your pizza sauce different than your family's centuries old, madanar? Same. Same one. See, I use the Mike Cesario, the original drummer of Twishing Tongues,

his family owns an Italian restaurant. And he gave me the, he let me in, bless his heart, on the Societio family. Maranard years ago. Now it's like, if I eat something other than that, I'm not. I'm kind of having a bad time. I do. And a lot of people won't admit this. I do think there's some good sauces out there in the store.

I think there's one that's good. Rouse. Rouse. Rows. Rows. Rios is good, man. Their vodka sauce is dynamite. Bro, it tastes like the real thing.

I don't know how they do it. That's his restaurant I really want to go to. But you got to like book it nine months ahead of time. Well, how they do it is the jars are like eight bucks of pop. and like a ragu is under three dollars so they they just put better shit into it better time but how do you preserve like a real san marzano tomato you know yo i just i just saw a thing on instagram i don't know what it was maybe like growing up italian or some stupid shit like that but they had like this famous italian cook saying that he would prefer if he was cooking in america

a fresh tomato from New Jersey rather than a San Marzano tomato. Really? Yeah. And the people... Was he in like a gray soup? Yeah. Yeah, I saw the same thing. And like the hosts were like, wow, you're going crazy. They asked him. And he broke it down. He was like scientifically

what that tomato went, you know, what that's going through in the aluminum, how long it hasn't been fresh. Yeah. And so, you know, you can't always follow the lore. You gotta try things out for yourself because that's one of the things that I think makes Posto the place in the Hudson Valley

that I go crazy over so good. Those real jerse. I don't know what is these tomatoes they're using are so fresh, bro. They're so fresh. I mean, that's everything. The dough and the sauce is really 99%.

They ask this dude, this Italian guy, What makes the San Marzano tomato like so influential, so impopular, so blah, blah, blah. And he says because it's from San Marzano. Yeah, he says something like the hype or something. It's like just the name. Wow. That's it. I mean, that's the only ones I buy.

So should I stop? No way, because they're still popping, motherfucker. It's still fucking great. But I saw that same exact thing. Yeah, it is growing up Italian. That is what it's called. I'll check it out. I didn't get to grow up Italian.

So maybe I could learn some stuff. Do you see that post recently? Is hardcore safe for Italian people one? That can't be fucking real, man. No. It says, I've been Italian for basically my whole life. And I always wanted to go to a hardcore show. I'm not sure Italian people are welcome.

Thanks again, Italian flag pasta emoji pizza. You think it's safe for Italian people? Hell yeah, it's safe for Italian people. We'll take care of anybody who makes it not safe. You heard it here. Hardcore is safe. That's not right. That's a bit.

Well, let's do some questions, Colin. Well, I got two questions for Jay. That's yeah. When my force is playing, POI's been having so much fun. But do you do?

Yeah. Well done. Oh, shit. Like, cool. Okay. Who do you do? How many do I get?

As many as you need, as many as you need. Typically, it's like two to three. I think I got like four. It's fine. I love it. Chaka from Byrne.

Eddie from Leeway. Yeah. Aaron from death threat. Aren't we all? Ray Kwan from the Wu-Tang Clan. Wow. Wildcard, fourth pick. Either him or the dead dude I mentioned earlier,

rock Marciano. Hip hop has a big, big influence on my live performance, I guess you could say. I would say that that shows. and my second question pertains to that because we did the master killer tier thing last week I love that all our records that we think are on tier we didn't really get to talk about a lot of hip hop hip hop because we're just we're uneducated

what are the what are the hip hop master killer tier records there's a couple for me we said Illmatic and Elmatic Liquid Swords and back to find when you were doing the the master killer list Did you have any moments with certain bands where there were two albums where you're like, this is kind of the master killer in society, but this is my favorite. Yeah.

So what becomes your master killer then? And that was, no, we didn't really agree on the converge one. He said Jane Doe and I think, I think No Heroes is like the best collection of songs that they wrote. But he's asking even internally, Colin, if like, if you know that there's one that everyone thinks is the one, but you're kind of, what do you feel is... I think this is about us. All right, well, then I'm going to surprise people. I'm like notoriously, strangely, a second album guy.

I don't know what it is. Desper Measures, my favorite leeway record. That's the best one. Best wishes, my favorite Chrome Ag's record. Love it. Yeah, record skip, right? Love it. I love the record.

It's just, yeah, that's a surprising thing to hear. But I can hear that in your band. Definitely. And so my, for me, my master killers, societies would be, you know, 36 chambers for Wu Tang. Mine would be Wu Tang forever. Some people hate it. I don't know. It's my favorite.

A lot of people would say Illmatic by Nas. My favorite is it was written. It's the second one. You know what I mean? A lot of people will say shook ones, mob deep. I might go with murder music. You know what I mean? I'm not as much of a casual rap music listener.

You know, I like a little bit of a deeper cut sometimes for some choices. You like when they really find their own is like what that says to me. Most definitely. And a lot of those, you know, I'm a little younger. So a lot of those were the first ones I heard. I wasn't there, you know. I was playing with He-Man or some shit when I'm a little man. came out.

But that's why I can comfortably agree with you on best wishes, desperate measures, et cetera, because we, we can remove ourselves from the bias of, of being there when these things came out and just say, hey, I'm looking at these from the perspective of,

are the songs better? Yeah, that makes sense, man. And they are. Yeah. Especially with desperate measures. Well, it's not even close.

I mean, Desper measures has Pocke on drums. Groove master, bro. Grove master. Move master. I love him. I love, I love, I love, I love, I don't know where I'm going. Now, go with it.

Follow the road, brother. But it's not, it's about Bradbrains quickness. Okay, because that's my shit, Babrain's quick. See, I'm more of an eye against eye guy. Okay. Same. I'm a quickness guy. Mackie's drumming is so wild on those.

It's fucking crazy. dude. It's wild on Quickness. I always forget that he played drums on this. It makes the album for better or worse, it makes the album special in a way. Ah. Because Mac is out. It's way more raw, where I guess I is like

so dialed in. Oh, yeah. They sound so pro. And I kind of like that, you know? But quickness is a little harder. Yo, which is sick. Quickness is the hard record in my opinion. Quickness was the record, like, A lot of my favorite records are my favorite records because, like, my favorite old head masha was like, yo, this one, motherfucker.

That's everything I like. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, and that was that for me. That was that for me. My whole life is that because I don't know if you know this story, but my brother grew up with Matt Grippo. Oh, he told me. Your brother told me the story.

Yeah, yeah. Which is amazing, which is crazy, man. We're part of the same team, brother. I know. We're right there. And it's like truly this, this would not be a thing without that insane chance. And like,

I'm just as much a Connecticut guy as I'm a Hudson Valley guy. The Hudson Valley is right on the line, man. My first shows were in Connecticut before New York City. And then talking about seeing satisfaction record release. That said it was infamous, infamous night. Violent shows for fight reasons, like you said. Those, those Heybred videos,

there is it is nonstop yeah i mean i'm not going to get into what i saw that night but the lore's out there it's a very infamous night the show did not end understood you got anything you got anything left for him bo before we get into uh the the people's questions i don't i've loved this conversation yeah this is incredible stuff it's fun to talk about moshing so much isn't it the best so i live for it bro it's it's a Same year, dude. You can't have that conversation with a lot of most people in your life. You know, this is rare.

This is a special. Favorite all-at-war record? This is weird for me, bro. I go all around, man. Let me look at my playlist right now. Mine is truth in the age of life. I mean, that's probably, yeah, it's probably my favorite. But, dude, cross of disbelief.

Yo, come on. I've recently become a fucking crazy assassins in the house of God guy. Great record. Bro, I never used to listen to it because my fucking dude doesn't play drums on it. You know what I mean? Once I started listening to it, man, it's like, has some of the best truth in the age of lies. Rip. You know why that shit is so good, bro?

Because they got big Jimbo back for it. he left before kent condemned for suffer they got jose from end of one on guitar i mean he's a big reason why that shit it's fucking dope but then when when big jimbo came back for his house is in the house of god i feel like he brought back that flavor yeah and in between that those dudes were doing a band called through blood reborn you guys ever hear them no miss me i'm sending it to you tonight i'm gonna love it it's the greatest hudson and Valley hardcore band. Wow.

It's Dissolve and all out war together. It's a super group. It's basically just all out war with the singer of Dissal. So it kind of sounds like it's more like hardcore singer over all at war stuff. Yeah, where it's just straight up. Yeah. If the right person heard it, they'd be like, oh, this is a death metal band. Straight up.

Yeah. That's cool. That's very cool. Yeah, I'm going with truth in the age of lies. it's just like but I fuck with a lot bro yeah it's all good

that's the thing dude dying gods EP what it's one of the best they've been a bad

that's 20 years how long have they been a band 21 22 years at that point for me that record the into another record and the maximum

penalty record are the trilogy of ultimate comebacks there's none better which one is the into another record omens

oh dude it's good I mean if you don't fuck with them you're not going to No, I do. I do. I just wasn't sure which one is the... Hell yeah. So you're on that higher level musical set. Hell yeah, man. It's unreal. That's my favorite album of 2022. The Omen's record from 2012. So good. I talk to some people that say it's one of their best records.

It's hard not to say it's their best collection of songs. It's really well put together, man. It's perfect. Got that little break in the middle, you know? Oh, it's great. It's great. Epic closer, big pits. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. I heard some infamous lore about Into Another, and if you know the Hudson Valley, Connecticut area, they have certain bands they love. Into Another is one.

And I heard that the Into-an-Nover pits were so violent in Connecticut that they would stop playing their songs and just start playing two snowflakes to try to stop it. Wow. Because it was these fucking maniacs just going off, dude. That's the thing. That's like, like one of my favorite genres is of hardcore as Secret Thug. Do you know this? Are you familiar with this genre at all? That's a, that's a, it's a term my twin lumpy coin.

Shout out to him. Secret Thug. He might say Mind For us is Secret Thug. But like lots of bands that don't seem totally hard, but they really are. Like Crown of Thorns. Yeah, it's the, it's the, uh, if your tour player looks like this, you're about to die in the pit type of, we're just like a guy with glasses. You got it. And for, and into another was a band like that in Connecticut.

Wow. I heard it used to be insane for them. And like I said, I heard one time they were playing at the tuning or something and they were getting so fed up with how violent it was getting, you know, where we'd be like, yeah. Yeah. They just stopped and they were like, they started playing the acoustic. stuff. Wow. It's crazy to, like, that's a band that has, like, lore with them, too, because, like,

hearing stories about how Richie was, like, back in the day, like, in the, in the youth crew shit and, like, it's just like, he was just, like, a monster and was like. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Beating motherfuckers up and shit, right? Yeah, he was like, I don't know a lot about that. That's crazy. And he said, by the way. What?

Yeah. Yeah. You know, like the best singer of all time. But dude, always in like Underdog? Like, he was always in the coolest shit. It's a cool ass dude, man. Shout out Richie. Cool bands.

No, no skips, basically, across his entire personal disguise. Favorite AirMax silhouette. That's a great question. Air Max one. One? Airmax one. They're re-releasing the OG red, Big bubble, which is...

I got two pairs of them, brother. Then you... Then you know the fucking deal. Yeah, I'll have it. I'll get a third. That's my favorite... That's my favorite... The OG.

That's my favorite sneaker all the time. They are max one. That's a gray, red color white. Great, great answer. I thought I had them right here. I go 97, stylistically. I wish I could pull off a 98. man I do 98s are one of my favorites but they're not that comfortable kind of like the 97 no the 97 is like a

there was a reason jerry soundville was rocking them motherfuckers yeah you know standing in them for 12 hours is what you were gonna be fine yeah man Tom cruise running through the park in that in that some bitch favorite sword katana nice oh strong nice very nice katana um thurman merman wants enough you like cheese I love the shit, man. Melted cheese might be the best food ever created. Isn't that crazy how that works? It's crazy. You put a little heat on it.

It's a completely different. I wish you guys could see how my dog is just staring at me with a toy in his mouth like this. Just. Because you said cheese. Just will not just like play with me. Just will not accept that I'm doing this stuff. I can hear mine barking begging for some love right now. Wow, we're at two hours.

That's incredible. Melted cheese is fucking incredible. The best food. Who did it first? You know? Who melted cheese? Who caramelized cheese? I mean, it's an Italian guy, right?

A genius. Maybe in France? Yo, who ate cheese for the first time? Yeah, that's a sick fuck. That's a sick bastard straight up. Who figured that out? I've thought about this with a lot of things. Even meat.

Yeah, even meat. Like, somebody's just being like, fuck. How the fuck did somebody smoke weed the first time? I know. Accident, maybe. Like, yo, that's stuff that we lit on fire by accident? I did read a theory of how someone came up with figuring out how to plant the seed the first time. They think they might have urinated in a certain area or like notice some urination or different types of hydration and notice a change over time.

But I've never come down to how they figured out to smoke weed. It's all piss. Everything's piss. Everything's urination. It's amazing. I think the first joke ever. was that when one time it was really cold outside and some guy was probably like, look.

And his friends were like, holy fuck. That's incredible. Most underrated New York hardcore band. Ooh. I mean, New York hardcore is pretty high rated all around. I feel like I got to go deep cut. Yeah, you do.

Go deep. It's I do. You've said a lot of Hudson Valley. Underrated city. Oh, a city. of Poughkeepsie is underrated in every way. No, no, no, no, most underrated like NYC rather than, because you said a lot of great Hudson Valley bands.

Oh, I said too much, yeah, okay. Oh, my gosh. Queens is my favorite borough. That's when it comes to music, hip-hop and hardcore. I'm going to have to go with Cold Front. Great answer. If you like Lee, if you like the later leeway stuff,

that is a little more posty, not metal, like the more, post hardcore type leeway shit cold front is for you and if you like crown of thorns uh you'll love it mike dejohn joined cold front he was the later cold front guitar player there it is shout to mike dejohn love him he's uh mount rushmore yep hardcore songwriter for me one of those dudes who's the best hardcore guitar player but also the best dude ever i never met him you don't you don't get that a lot oh he's the he's the best man

Lifelong fan. Incredible. Right here. Big fan. Favorite Living Laser story and what the future holds for POI. We haven't talked about Living Laser at all. Wow. I did not expect to get asked favorite living laser story.

That's cool. I'll tell you one. All right. Let's hear it. I'll tell you one. Living Laser had, I think the logo itself was the Angry Birds. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Worst logo of all time. We did a shirt with that font on it by actually. accident too. So we, you and I, we're having that moment afterwards. We're like, fuck, this is the angry birds. Yes. For years. You know. So I'm, you know, we got that. It's, you're not alone. One of many appropriation.

One of many mistakes I've made throughout the years of writing music and making merch. Any other, any other, any, uh, positive memory of living laser story. Yeah. Living Laser one time. We played a garage in. Connecticut. We pulled up to the garage. At that time, it was very early in our careers. I hadn't played a lot of shows with Mike.

I was driving separate. We go up the show. I stop Mike before we pull up to the driveway. I say, Mike, we have to have an entrance. I made him roll down all the windows and blast the diplomats.

As we pull up, it's icy. the driveway is covered in ice. It's January in Connecticut. We're sliding. We're blasting diplomats. We get out of the car. I kid you not.

As we get out of the car, a dude just standing there looks at me and goes, dipset and shoots a flamethrower. I don't know if it was a real flame thrower or just like a torch hooked up to a propane tank. But this dude had some type of household flame thrower. I came to find out later, he had it to melt all the ice in the driveway. Wow. Anyway, we play the show. It's one of the craziest shows I ever play in my life.

Dude is shooting the flame thrower inside the garage. Wow. The garage doors were up. People threw M80s up. The blast from the M80s broke all the glass in the garage door. doors. It's one of the scariest, most frightening. And even me, and I'm a never stop guy. Yeah. I really, you know. You got close. I got close to stop him, bro. Now I now I stop because I don't want to get canceled because it's something that happens. I just don't want to see a lifeless body,

you know. That's like the one place I draw the line because that's where that's where somebody can come up and be like, you have like. Here's the thing is I've been that lifeless body. I know. Me too. I've been that lifeless body, and they just dragged me out. And I'm not saying everybody has to go through that experience, but. It's part of the fun. I'm not going to win any fans by, by, no. But you know what?

You said yourself that modern stuff is more violent. Like, we were forced. We stopped recently. We played a show in Texas. And I did not see this happen, but, um, I believe it was, I'm not positive, but I believe it was the infamous stage dive Jesus himself, the guy, a Fubu Man. Yeah. And I'm not sure, so please don't crucify me if I get this wrong.

But I believe he got knocked. He was in a situation where this gentleman was out. Wow. You know what I mean? I like read someone tweeted like they killed Fubu Man. Like I read. Oh, yeah, I think he got it. He got a back.

I didn't know they killed him, right? There's a video of this. I'll send you. Okay. And the guys in my band were, like, looking at me, like, yo, man, should we stop? And I was like, what the fuck? Don't stop, you know?

Because some of my favorite memories were riots happening around me and all that war is just keeping it going. You know what I mean? And it's just, it's crazy experience. But I understand it's a different time and everything. finally people they like literally come up and catch the symbol

they stop us and then everybody sees and then I see that you know there's a man on the ground that yellow jersey and uh so you got to stop these days

but it's so much fun to play through a fucking fight man through a fight there's no stop I'm never stopping for a fight yeah that's different that's different because then it's like not only you know what you're doing. And you know.

And like fuck you. Like we're playing. Yeah. We rock so hard that you started fighting. Thank you so much. You ever. We'll keep doing that, you know? You ever hear people like, I seen blood let do this.

They go right into eye of the tiger. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Got. God. God. If they see a fight happen, they'll go straight from the rip.

They'll look at each other and just go. God, God, God. And it's just amazing. You get eye of the tiger over the whole fight. Terror. What's terrors? Terror had one. Terror's fight song.

I think they, it might be spit my rage. They might just all know to do. Really? That's pretty good. That's good. We all got to get fight. Yeah,

yeah. They're like, they know where to come in if there's a situation, a fight situation. Genius. It is genius. They are the geniuses.

man. Yeah, they're, I mean, they are the, the, the, the blueprint for just what to do, what you could be. Fucking kings. Yeah, straight up. When is out for justice coming back? Oh, what do you mean? Come back. We never left.

We don't have to play a show to still be in the room. That's right. We're going to be recorded with me and Lumpy. We have plans for more out for justice. We got some plans for some other stuff to, uh, you know, me and him always doing shit. But there's going to be more out for justice soon. Hopefully it'll include a scarhead cover. Hopefully it will include a scarhead cover.

I love that. You ever get this is a, this is not related at all. Mm-hmm. You like those box cutter records? I don't really know them that good. Dude, what's the one? I think it's called Ghetto Story Part 2. That's a sick name.

It's a sick name. And the verse is just like, Did the dad, Diddaad, did dad, Did dad, Did dad, It goes Oh, I need to listen to a box cut it,

You gotta, You gotta check out by it's, It's Stickman and Jotham singing. Oh, dude, I've heard of this band, but I've never heard them. Put on Ghetto Story Part 2, you're gonna love it.

Is that on Spotify and shit? Let's see. I hope it is. I mean, I'm a big fan of Stickman stuff, so I'm sure I like it. Just had a tip. Tiff, where were we driving?

Oh, no, that was Mike. That was from when we came home from, where were we? Seattle, Tacoma. When we came home from there, it was a late, late night drive from Newark Airport home. And me and Mike just put on no reason to smile. Oh. There's some master killer to your shit right there.

That's an omission. That's not an album. I was talking about how hate breed is in everything I do. And bro, listen to the mind-forced, moss parts. In everything I do, as far as my stuff, there is some of the moss part for every man to himself. Looking out for number one. John, John, John, John, John, John, John, John, John, John, John, John, John, John, John, John, John, John, John, John, John, oh, God, that's my one of my favorite chug patterns ever, bro.

That's very, they, they were ahead of their time, they, they, they were, uh, they're, they're secret, they're not secret thugs. They're, they're very, oh, they're not. Not secret. Not secret. Secret musical geniuses. Oh, most definitely. Incredible, unbelievable musicians.

They used to play the Hudson Valley a lot back in the day because Jersey's right there. I used to love seeing them. Love seeing them. But I also used to be scared seeing them all the time. I don't know why. They were so intimidating. Just their presence. It would frighten me as a 16-year-old kid.

I get it, man. Listen to a ghetto story part, too. you'll be scared all over again. Bacon, egg and cheese or sausage egg and cheese? I'm back and forth, but these days I'm sausage egg and cheese. I'm with you. I'm not a big bacon guy. There's no real wrong answer.

Bacon keeps fucking up my teeth, man. I like my bacon a little harder, and it keeps fucking up my fillings and shit. Bite on a hard piece of bacon. That'll get you. That don't sound like a good time at all. Did Bo watch Pop Star? I don't know. Next question

You said you were going to buy it rented for me Yeah you said you were going to buy Slay the Spire What was in Pop Star It's a lonely island movie You said you were going to buy me a pair of glasses I didn't even know they had a movie dude Fucker Oh I gotta see this

Dude he's been telling me to watch We need to wrap this now I live in a bubble somewhere I'm sorry dude you don't understand You're about to watch your favorite movie It's a lonely island movie Man that's probably great I'm watching it right after this

I can't believe that you're saying this it's their best songs surprised man certain stuff I haven't just I haven't run into it's their best songs well yes dude Tiffany did you know there's a lonely island movie did you hear her she just went no

it's called pop star it's it's called pop star and I have heard of that right I didn't know it was lonely island sorry you gotta get on we got to hang up so that you can go watch it fucking eat pizza and watch that movie you gotta get out of here spink it's gonna uh I'm not saying.

Oh, favorite Chauncey story. Connecticut. I can't tell him on here. Yeah. That makes sense. Yo, shout out to my fucking dude right there.

That's my brother, man. We're going to have him on, actually. That's going to be a legendary episode. You need to have him on like next week. I mean, that's going to be legendary episode.

Agreed. I can't. That'll be not stories from tour. You won't even be able to breathe. You want to. Oh, dude. I mean, you're getting some ultimate.

hard lore stories from tour with him. I need it. It's coming. One time me and him almost got beat up by the bouncers at CBGBs. Maybe we wanted to get beat up. There was a lot of us, but we were so high we thought we were going to get beat on it. That's fair. That was a crazy.

We were smoking weed backstage and they had the no cigarette smoking inside had just kind of started. So like if you were smoking weed, it stood out, boom. Okay. You know, and this guy was like, you're going to fucking buy it was the whole thing. And then he killed you both. No, Eric, Eric talked, he talked to him out of it. Somehow he got us out of it.

I would love to hear that verbatim. Yeah. And Eric's iconic place. It's good. One of the great voices of our, of our, he's the songbird of several generations. He is. Eric, you hear this, we love you, man. We really do.

He's, he's, I will never forget. Because when Sean Martin joined Twishing Tungs, it was like, I think Eric was one of the guys. Another one of the greats, man. Yeah. That's my, whatever he needs, whatever he needs, he gets. I mean, he's a fucking king. I'll do anything for him. But that was one of the guys where I think, I think Chonsie was one of the reason,

Choncy being like, yo, those, those dudes are, you know, like, just putting on for us a little bit was enough. But I'll never forget that first show back was at Gilman Where Sean played Or so we saw it. Okay And Eric was just on stage Like tears from his eyes while it was happening

It was the best Like looking at that was one of the best moments Of like my whole life Just looking at that Is there anything better than having the people you love so much on stage with you When you're fucking just bringing the pain No Absolutely I saw a tweet recently

I don't know who it was. I think it was somebody from LDB Fest. And I don't know them that good. So, you know, I mean nothing by this. But they were talking something like, you know, there's not going to be that many people on stage for our thing, like when they were talking about like FYA or something like that. And I remember just thinking, man, why you got to ruin everybody's fun?

Yeah. When it gets to the point where like members of the band can't move, it's like that's when it's a problem. But from a performing perspective, if I look to my left and right and I see my boys in some capacity, I'm having a way better time. Yeah. See, and I guarantee you people in my band,

especially the instrument players will not agree with me. I love when it gets so the guitar player can barely move. I want my shit to look like a mob deep show in Queens, man. I completely agree. Because the first thing I think is like, wow, thank you for being here. You know, wow, that's awesome. Thank you for watching us. That's sick, you know.

I'm with you. It's just like, we did it, man. You know, like for me, like all my friends are like, I consider them a part of the band. You know, like five people I consider a part of the band. You know? So Mind Force has 10 people. Mind Force probably has eight people in the band. That's awesome.

Yeah, a bunch of them I put even in the liner notes. You know, I put the players and the team. Love it. You know, I need those guys up there, you know. How do you feel about it, Bo? I think a Fest shouldn't really weigh in on it. I think the band should have the kind of say. It's a case by case basis.

They're performing. I want who I want on stage while I play. If I, if P.O.I plays in a, another show and there's not at least 37 people on stage. I will not walk on stage. I love it. I will not walk on stage. And I know Aaron will be with me.

Oh, I guarantee it. He'll be with me. He'll have pre-roll. He'll have pre-roll. He's pre-rolling joints now. And he's pre-rolling 37. And LDB Fest and Associates, I know that you're here with us listening. I love LGBFET.

We love the fest. One of my favorite shows I've ever played was L-D- Can't wait to go next month. I also think that people. People don't, from like pictures and stuff of FYA, you don't get the perspective of like, yeah, yeah, there's a bunch of people on stage. There's a lot more people not on stage. Like it doesn't, it didn't look that crazy. I mean, don't get me wrong.

I totally get why it sucks for a lot of people. But for me, it's fun. The TUI stage situation was definitely. That was rough. For sure. Crazy. Yeah. But it was like, but if you looked at the crowd was live music fans who were like seeing Trapp and Rice for the,

first time. The Moschers had to be on stage. Because the monsters weren't safe amongst the crowd. You know, there was no, there was no spin kicking. Oh, was that tight. It was so, it was packed, dude. Pacted. Beans. I like that playing, not a fan if I'm mashing. Agreed. Playing and I see beans, can of beans, can of sardine singing. It's like, damn, I'm a fucking legend. But, but, but when I'm trying to spin kick and I can't make a full 360 rotation.

Come on, man. How are you going to get that momentum? You can't. You can't. You can't be done. Cannot be done. You good, Bo? Beans, fucking beans are like the loosest thing.

You got to respect me. The worst. Oh, that was good. A can of beans. Well, Jay, this was maybe the longest episode yet. Oh, fuck, man. I'm sorry. I'm talking.

No, no. All of a sudden, it was two hours. One of the greats flew by. I, I willingly. missed my urgent care appointment, by the way. It wasn't even urgent. Scarlet fever had my way. I've had some bad experiences at urgent care, man.

The one by me is good. Yeah. Yeah, I go often. Well, Bo's going to urgent care. I'm going to watch Popstar. I'm going to listen to Boxcutter. And then watch Popstar. And then watch Popstar.

Dude, get a story part two. You got to send me a message after you listen to it. That verse, you're going to go. It's so hard. part and I think it's two notes. Oh, that's my favorite. Those are the coolest ones. Two notes, get a short part two box cutter.

Shout out, Joe with him friends of the show. Jay, mine force. Incredible time. Let's do this again. I got one more question. We didn't even ask it. All right.

Let's see that. You're driving down the highway. Oh, my God. There's a giant golden glistening sign. It's magical. It's got any fast. food place ever. It doesn't matter where you are.

You got just enough time. You're pulling off. What's the one that makes you go? Oh, they got a X, Y, Z? I'll give you my main one, and then I'll give you some contenders. Perfect. It may shock you, but it's actually McDonald's.

Not shocking at all. And the reason is there's certain things that I just, I always know, nuggets bad for me are still doable. Yeah. And there's a lot of stuff, man, at 3 a.m. You know what I'm saying? Duncan Donuts is another one, though.

I will pull over for some fucking Duncan donuts. Wow. First Duncan answer. Yeah, first. But I, but as for what, you know, him from Connecticut and in Chicago, they're everywhere. I love Duncan donuts. I'm all, I'll stop at Duncan any time. But my favorite fast food chain, I can't say I'd stop for it because it's

only in one state. Connecticut is Dutchess. Duchess. I'm not a chance. Wow. We've not talked about Duchess on the show.

Connecticut staple. Frank Pepe's Duchess fucking stage diving. Yeah. Connecticut. That's it. Yo,

I can't believe you've never had Duchess. I, I probably had it when I was 10 or so. Most definitely did. I moved a long time ago. The buns,

though. Yeah, it's just, I, My dad didn't know shit about, he didn't never, we lived between a McDonald's and Burger King, so that's what we were getting, you know? And then my mom.

Oh, I fuck with Burger King. There's a lot of Burger King haters. Dude, there's a lot of haters. And I also fuck with Burger King. I fuck with Burger King, dude. Their fries are fucking good. I love the fries, but Burk has scorned me more than any, anywhere.

What's your favorite, like at McDonald's or Burger King or Wendy's? What's your favorite, like, I don't know if this is the right term. Seasonal, not seasonal. Like, they only have it for a little bit. I know. This is hard for me. There's a few things.

The Italian chicken sandwich from Burger King. Oh, dude, I've never had that. Motsorella with Marinera on the chicken sandwich. Wow. Do you remember the Moussua Chicken Supreme from Wendy's? They haven't done that in years. That's shit. I do remember that.

Kind of sounds like that. I'm a sucker for all of that because there's never like a mayo or any bullshit on it. I can always get it exactly how it comes. And that's, that's like, my favorite. thing. I only like mayo on my breakfast sandwich. Wow. I've never heard that. I'm a fucking freak show, man. That's all right.

The spicy McNugget to me. That's mine. Yeah. What are they doing? Bro, what are they doing? I'm sorry, I'm getting so passionate. I'm talking loud into the mic. Why? Where is it? Why do they have to take it away?

Give it to me. I'll go there five days a week. Why is it so much better than the other? other chain spicy nuggets. It's crazy. Well, but here's the thing. The McNugget was made tested,

battle tested in a biased scientist in a lab to be better than anything else. And how great is it when you get that box and it says spicy on it? It's got that extra stuff. And then you open it and they're a little redder. A little, yeah, yeah. Oh, man.

And then they got that sauce. I was on a tear. This is why I got to fucking go. The health diet or whatever. because I was on a tear. I was going on this drug run to buy, I mean,

to buy a bunch of weed in Massachusetts because it was legal there before it was here. And I would buy a ton of fucking, I mean, I don't, I was, yeah,

I would buy a bunch of stuff and I would come back. But right next to the dispensary, I almost gave all the details. Yeah, not. Right next to the dispensary was a,

extra good McDonald's, bro. Like, it was a better one. They're unicorns, but they're out there. And I would get my joint. I would get spicy chicken McNuggets. I would eat the nuggets first. What's the drink? Dude, this is going to shock you.

Bottled water. Desani, a cool, desani, wild water. Now you're sick. Now I believe you. You're sick. Now it's not because it's DeSani, but just because. I'm a water guy.

You need a water. I don't fuck with soda guys. Wow. I don't fuck with soda. And it's not, I blame part of it on my parents. I don't know why. We didn't have soda in the house. So I would like go over my friend's house and be like, damn, what's this shit?

This is spicy. And I don't like bubbly drinks. Wow. You're blessed for that. Yeah. You're better off. I don't. I don't know why.

I just, I don't like shit. Celtzer water. None of that. None of that. Dude, one, my favorite, if I had to, if I'm going soda, is Mountain Dew. Respect, but I think it's just because it's so sugary, you know what I mean? It is. Yeah. You can, that's a meal. That's not a soda.

One time I ate, I mean, one of my favorite old snacks, like if I ate, like, if I just smoked a bunch of blunts and shit all day, then I go home and I'm just on the couch, yo, box of fruit snacks, bottle of Mountain Dew. I would have believed that you were a fruit snacks. I love, I'm definitely a food snacks guy. Okay. That makes a lot of sense. Wow. Man, I'm just thinking about spicy of McDonald's. Yeah, me too.

I think so good, dude. Dude, the week that they came out, I think. You went every day? Me and old, me and old Brody King probably had between 40 and 80 a day, the first week. I would like to one day. I would like to. as a small you know

I'm just a small little dog I would like to hang with the Great Danes one day and see if I could keep up because I would like to try I would like to try I think I might surprise some people I'm with you

I would love to see that because to me sometimes I'm a little dog with the Great Danes you know and I smoke them who I mean you're kind of a great day

my friend I appreciate that that's new though. Okay. That's, I'm new to that. So, so, but my appetite has been that of a, of a whale or a walrus for,

if you will. For decades. My thing is, is I can't always eat a lot, but if I'd like something, I can eat a shitload of it. There's a German word for that. Really? Bo, do you know what it is? No. My wife's from German. I mean, I don't know if she'll know it.

There's a German word for when you're full, but the food is so good that you don't want to stop eating. Can I ask her? I want to ask her? Yeah, let's ask her. Fat asses. Is there a German word for when you're full, but the food is so good you don't want to stop eating? I'm putting her on the spot. She don't know. She's going through everything.

That's okay, babe. Yeah, I mean, how would you know something so specific? She did great. Yeah. She did it so great. I swear it's a thing, though, to my German. I see Walden Samkait, which is means the feeling of being alone in the woods. So I don't think that's it.

But if any real Germans are watching, let us know what the word is for when you're so full, but the food is so good that you don't want to stop eating. But that's it for today. This was... We called them Americans. Yeah. It'll just say my full legal name.

That's really fun. Jay, thank you so much. Thank you guys. shout out to Mind Force, Pills of Ivory, Hudson Valley. Thank you. Incredible episode. Shout out to you guys. Thank you all for watching.

Thank you, Jay, for joining us. Have a great night. Peace. Bye.