HardLore - Jeremy Bolm: Touché Amoré, Grief, Growth, & 10 Years of STAGE FOUR

Episode Date: March 5, 2026

After years of build up... We finally sit down in person with our good friend & Touché Amoré vocalist JEREMY BOLM in-person at The Pit Recording Studio. We talk all about Jeremy's upbringing in Burbank, CA, and how he went from Nirvana and Michael Jackson to Sepultura and Earth Crisis... From facing adversity growing up due to his unique speaking voice & his early bands, to finding the courage to sing for Touché Amoré, breaking down their entire discography, including their now 10 year old landmark "Stage Four", grieving to the masses via the albums lyrics, working with Ross Robinson, and much more. This is one of our most requested and anticipated guests of all time, by you and by us, and it lead to a conversation where I learned a lot about someone I've known for over 20 years. Whether you like Touché, HardLore, or anything in between, there's something for everyone in this episode. See you at the Stage Four anniversary gig. ________________ Cool links:  • Try AG1 at DrinkAG1.com/HARDLORE to receive a free welcome kit, flavor sampler kit and a year's supply of Vitamin D/K drops. • Don't miss what might be the craziest rock/metal/hardcore festival in American history at Louder Than Life Festival 2026, featuring our very own Twitching Tongues ________________ 00:00:00 - Start 00:00:52 - Jeremy Bolm 00:02:43 - Growing Up in Burbank, CA, From Michael Jackson to Nirvana to Korn to Earth Crisis 00:23:31 - Finding Community In Hardcore, Hellfest, Collecting Records 00:29:40 - Jeremy's Long, Straightened Hair 00:32:27 - JEREMY'S SECRET VOICE 00:42:33 - Stricken & Thriller: Jeremy is The Godfather of The Worst S*** Ever 00:51:23 - Touché Amoré 00:56:22 - Pardon This Interruption... 00:59:39 - "TA" DEMO... Nick Steinhardt's Art, No Sleep Records 01:04:28 - TO THE BEAT OF A DEAD HORSE... Breaking Up, Elliot Joins, 6131/Geoff Rickly 01:12:28 - T-Shirt Prices Rant, "I'll Go To Morrissey...", Documenting Every Touche Show 01:19:32 - Re-Recording TTBOADH 01:21:10 - PARTING THE SEA BETWEEN BRIGHTNESS AND ME... Touche Grows, Singing to Deathwish, Touring Nonstop 01:28:47 - IS SURVIVED BY... Re-Recording ALL Vocals, Touring Europe, "Overplaying" 01:37:47 - STAGE FOUR... Grieving to the Masses, Celebrating 10 Years at the Hollywood Palladium 01:49:08 - The Last Message from Jeremy's Mom 01:52:10 - First Ever Podcast, And a Few of Jeremy's First Evers 02:01:53 - LAMENT... Ross Robinson, Musical Relief, Releasing a Record in 2020 02:22:25 - SPIRAL IN A STRAIGHT LINE... Lou Barlow, What Jeremy is Yet To Achieve 02:30:00 - Food, Ghosts, The Usual... 02:35:21 - Jeremy's Top 4 Hardcore Records  HardLore: A Knotfest Series, Fueled by Monster EnergyEdited by Steven Grise • Title sequence by Nicholas MarzlufJoin the HARDLORE PATREON to watch every single weekly episode early and ad-free, alongside exclusive monthly episodes.Join the HARDLORE DISCORD for community discussions and to participate in our future Q&A episodes.FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER, SPOTIFY, APPLEFOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAMFOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER For sponsorship opportunities, email us! [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I remember we were playing a festival in Europe. I got pulled in, you know, it was pouring rain at a festival and it was like, hey, you have to do this interview. So I'm like, okay, go in, you know, close the van door, just, you know, classic doing an interview in a van. And the guy just starts bawling at me about the record. It just kind of seemed like he just needed to talk to me. That was the part of the, of that album that I did not expect and still don't have a good

handle on of like, hey man, person, anyone. I'm also going through this. Hello, welcome. It's Hardlord Time. How you doing, Bo? I'm doing great, Colin. I'm very excited this evening. Who do we have?

It's a beautiful day here in the Valley at the Pitt recording studio. Speaking of the Valley, I've got to introduce our lovely, lovely guests today. It's a big week on the show. So allow me to introduce a true San Fernando Valley, OG. One of the most prominent voices in post-harkour with blast beats,

a music aficionado, tushie amore a vocalist, and my friend of over 20 years. How about that? Jeremy Ball. Oh. Come on.

It's nice to be. I'm going to do the full. Come on. Reach over me. The far reach. Welcome. Thank you. How you feeling?

How you doing? I'm good. I was just saying. This might be, as I've gotten older, I've become a lot more nervous with interviews. I don't know why that is.

Because everything can go everywhere so fast. I don't know. You know, I don't know if it's really that. I think it's just, I don't know, it's like, I've never had stage fright. Do you guys, nothing, anything like that? Bad shows, I'm horrified. Great shows, I'm like, let's go out.

Yeah, I think just when we've been doing this as long as we have, we've felt all the things of like, this went well, this didn't go well. And I think that anxiety and the stress of the world nonstop has like amplified all the things that could go wrong. But I'm with friends. Yeah, yeah. And that's all. You're safe here.

You got your moon struck hat on. Oh my God. I just noticed that. Share. Yeah. Shout out, share a friend of the show, share, obviously. Let's go back in time here. Let's get real comfortable.

Let's get real familiar. And I want to learn some things about you today. Okay. There's so much I don't know. let's go back in time. Tell me about young Jeremy. Okay. Growing up,

where did you grow up in Burbank? Burbank. St. Joe's Hospital. Wow. Yeah. I got my appendix out there. Wow. That's where it happened with the Burger King.

How about that? Yeah. You see with the Burger King? Yeah, that's a whole thing. Do it and say it real quick. They have told it a bunch, but when I got my appendix out, I ruptured. Yeah. Didn't, wait.

Yeah. It ruptured, didn't burst. Right. On my way there, I was like, I'm feeling a little, this hurts but I got to eat like maybe it's that I was like well I'm going to the doctor I got to eat something yeah right yeah so I got a

double wopper combo large full sugar doctor pepper yeah I feel like on the list of things to ingest before an epinectomy that's like on the no it's on a chart don't get the double yeah double wapper is on the chart that do not do not ingest chart got there and they're like yeah this is this has got to come out

have you eaten anything today I was like well but You know. See, the thing is this. Yeah. By anything. Does it, does a double wafer, large fry, onion ring, and a full sugar, dark pepper count? So I stayed an extra day.

Lovely hospital. Great place to be born. Congrats. Tell me about growing up in Burbank. Yeah, it's, you spent some time there. I love it. Yeah. It's an interesting place to grow up.

Yeah. This has come up, you know, just talking to, mutual valley friends or just people people from other states that had very more rural upbringings. It's kind of a fascinating thing to say where it's like it kind of messes with your brain a bit when you're a kid because you'll put on a movie

and be like, that's opening, first time I saw back to the future. He skates out of the parking lot next to the Burger King. Right. Oh, hey. Yeah, it all ties together. it's the burger and what used to be in that parking lot was the Toys R Us

so as a kid you know you know that location Wow Super bad Right in the liquor store down the way My high school is where they filmed the Wonder Years The true romance Safari Inn is around the corner

from where I grew up I have a little bit of that with Chicago John Hughes movies You get a little bit of that but not I come here and I'm like I'm like, yeah, you know, so wow. So there's, so there's that weirdness. And then there's also, if you are born and raised there, there's a chance that your folks

work in the industry in some capacity. It's probably not a glamorous job. It's probably, you know, I was raised with a single mom definition lashkey kid. I lived around the block from my high school. So it was just like ditching school with my dickhead friends and just like, you know, hanging out and whatever else, not really being policed on what I was doing, watching, or whatever. But I also had two parents that were so burnt out by

work and also being a single mom that like, I was never taken to the movies. It was just like, I work in movies. I don't want to go do more of that. So you discovered, because you're a big movie guy. So I had to find all of that stuff on my own. And I've talked to other friends from Burbank and they kind of agree that it's like, it's kind of a weird thing where it almost makes you sort of devoid of culture, even though you're surrounded by it.

Wow. So, yeah, it wasn't until I got, like, I loved TV and things like that, but it wasn't until I got older that going to friends' houses whose parents also didn't police them on what they were watching. And it's just like, oh, yeah, my dad, you know, my mom didn't watch a ton of stuff, but friends who's like, oh, yeah, my dad let me rent, you know, Terminator 2, predator. Every time. Die hard.

and then R-rated movies and everything else kind of came into my life. But, you know, I don't know how you... It's the things that are kept from us that become like... Oh, yeah. Now I need unlimited of that. Yes. Sometimes. Absolutely.

Not for me. What? I'm just saying that sometimes... Yeah, you're not like a horror guy. So what came first, music or movies? Music. Yeah. Yeah, music.

I was pretty obsessed, pretty young. I was of the age group that... like Michael Jackson was just like inescapable it was just like instantly just like I need can I get a jacket that looks like that like just obsessed her CD I ever bought was thriller as a child

yeah yeah yeah we'll talk a little bit more about thriller later huh yeah bad was mine like bad just that music video was just like the epitome of cool yeah I think it was like the mix of like I never put this together until now But like the bad music video with like jean jackets, leather jackets, that sort of a thing. And then also like Ernest goes to camp.

There was the one bad boy kid who had like the cut off jean vest and like spiky bracelet. It's like kind of my intro to like, oh, that I think that could be punk. That's awesome. Kind of a thing, which is interesting. So thank you Martin Scorsese and Ernest. And Ernest, yes. It always comes back to both. So what are some early punk bands you connect with?

Oh, uh. And how did you find them? So my, like, okay, so I liked Michael Jackson and stuff like that. And then I got unsurprisingly obsessed with Nirvana Pearl Jam. Okay. I was the right age, the right everything for that. Like, I, like, you know, Kirk Cobain died a day before, uh, yeah, day before my birthday. What was that like for white people in 1994?

Huge. Huge. No! Burbank, dude? Tears everywhere. Yeah, I was about to turn 11. Okay. So I was in the backseat of neighbor's car.

They had taken us to Pink's Hot Dogs. Oh, man, we had a... Those are our guys, man. We had a hardlord dog. We had a dog. Oh, I didn't know that. That's cool. What was on it?

Guacamole. Yeah, guac. It's version one. B2 will be. B2 is going to be lit. Trust me. What was on it? Chicago dog with Guac.

It was a Chicago dog with Gwock, basically. Oh. Yeah. Which doesn't that sound nice? It's cool. It was good. It was legitimately good. Yeah.

I like that it's a mix of both of your personalities, too. Aw. We try. We'll do more. But yeah, like, I was backseat of the backseat, and it came on over the radio. It was like, Kirk Cobain, lead singer of Nirvana, has kind of passed away in his home. And I was so devastated that I didn't get out of the car. Like, I was just, like, confused.

It was, like, the first, like, and I. And I took it, like, personally, too, because it was, like, right before my birthday, where I was just, like, music. And I've said, I was like, I genuinely was like, music is done for me. Like, I'll never like music again. How could you do that? Yeah. Straight up. Because, but in a way, that's how your brain thinks as a kid, you're just like, but you're, you're, you're my got.

You're my got. Yeah. So, that was devastating. Did you discover Pearl Jam and Nirvana because of, like, K rock and other stuff? Or was it also the MTV, K-Rock, yeah. Like, uh, that. the even flow music video when Eddie Vedder stage dives, you know, this is...

We've been chasing that ever since. You know? As a, as the little brother, when you see that, you go, look at all of that attention. Oh, like, oh my God. You know, it's just like, I think it implants it in my head to be like, I want to, I want to rock, you know, like that kind of a thing. So that's when all of that, you know, and then I just,

was the kid who there was a record store on the corner right there in Burbank called D.B. Coopers. Coolest name for a record store that I did not know what that was. Is that the guy who disappeared with the money? Yeah, that was the name of the record store. How cool is that? It's awesome. Yeah.

And that probably closed in the very early 2000s or late 90s or something. Can you recall the first record you ever bought from there? First ever. First ever record I bought from there. I probably. I probably can't

but I mean cassettes I know some of my first that I walked into warehouse music which is what were the chase is

and it used to be a warehouse music I mean some of the earliest cassettes were like obviously like the Nirvana 10 or sorry Pearl Jam 10 Nirvana never mind but then also like TLCU on the TLC tip

I love shit like that Guns and Roses, use your illusion, maybe two. Because of Terminator 2. Yeah, yeah, that actually probably is why. Absolutely is why. Yeah. Black album. Metallica is 191.

He looked right. Black album. Black album. We're closer. I'm like right in between you two in age. Oh, okay. So a lot of what you're saying. You're resonating.

Yeah, it was like I went to a date. daycare also being a latchkey kid later on but when she would have me in daycare there was one record the single would beat it you know what I mean so it's like I'm like and the the ruins of what you grew up in over by me so yeah that makes a lot of sense how do you go from okay yeah Nirvana Pearl Jam to so I there an easy entry point which probably gets that a lot here it's it gets set a lot on my show Green A. Duky is like kind of an entry

to like, okay, that seems like it's different. And then I found, and then through the Southern Californianess, found no effects. And punk and drollick being right then and there and hearing the lore that they tried, that K Rock played,

Leave it Alone on the air. And apparently Fat Mike called and said, stop it. That was lore that kind of came to me in a way where I was like, wait a minute, but no effect seems to be like more punk than Green Day. Yeah.

Kind of a thing. My first show ever was no effects. No way. Who else played? Do you remember? Yeah. Mad Caddies, Frenzel Rom,

an Australian punk band who are still rocking to this day. And something else. It was like all fat records. All fat records. But punk and droplet was the record. That's awesome. The record.

Yeah. Do you still? Yeah. I riot for no effect. Absolutely. Yeah. Same. You never did.

I like, I read the book and that honestly really really made me. I'm dead. down. Yeah. Yeah, they got some... I'm a big bad religion guy, so it's right there. Well, it's funny to, not to go full into no effects, but like guitar-wise, they are very good guitar players. Lots of crazy picking. Yeah. Drums are rock solid. And then there's all the shit from like melodic punk to fast punk to kind of reggae and stuff to the bruise, which is an oi song.

Yep. Which puts in my brain at 11 years old. Oi-Oi-Oi-Oi. Exactly. Yeah. Like, oh, this is like a punk thing. what this is from. So it was a very, it was a perfect gateway into actual underground. Yeah. Well said. Yeah, that's, that's all too true. Also, give credit words, dude, those are, for degenerates to play that. Oh my God. That's crazy. That well. Yeah. It's like, no, I got into the replacements later in my life, but it's like to, when you have that level of being a degenerate and with that level of talent and being able to do both at maximum mobility. Yeah. Awesome. Pretty cool. Undenial. Pretty cool. Pretty cool. Um, after Kurt died when I was like, music's dead for me.

Uh, six months later, I saw the corn blind music video. Dude. And was like, that is the scariest. What the fuck? And I immediately went and bought that cassette. And then that got me into metal. Wow. Yeah.

Like, I already had black album, but like, I didn't, and I owned, I liked, I had the black album and Justice for All, and then really fucking loved Countdown to Extinction. Dude, it's unbelievable. Again, is that the Terminator 2 record? No, that would be... Last Action Hero has... Oh, it is. You're right, it's Last Action Hero. Angry Again? Dude. It's such a good song.

That record does rock. It's very black album. It totally tracks. And then they have a song in the Bogus Journey, Bill and Ted's Bogus Chilohy soundtrack that goes crazy, and they steal the Now I Laying Me Down to Sleep. It's like straight up, enter salmon and disc track. It's incredible.

It's awesome. Yeah, it's funny, a co-worker, I work a few days at Amoeba. A co-worker just told me that apparently the lore about angry again is that he got out of rehab sober, and that's the first song he wrote, Sober. Whoa. It's awesome. It's wild to be like, sobriety made you write the angriest song. Yeah, that's awesome.

It's pretty sick. Broken clock, you know what I mean? Yeah. Amen. Okay. So we're finding corn? Yeah. Corn?

Corn and no effects are your gateways to the extreme. And truthfully, and then through all of that, the Ross Robinson of it all, I get very into Sepuletura roots. Okay. And by the OzFest 96 VHS, which has Earth Crisis on it. Wow. And that's why I learned about Straight Edge. Same. Yeah.

Is that no? No, Earth Crisis. Yeah. But not specifically. Sure. I just remember watching it and being, because I bought the VHS

strictly for Fear Factory for Sepuletura. Probably mainly those two. But I remember being, I remember watching the neurosis part, which is in black and white. Oh, it's the best shit ever. And I remember just watching that

and being like, okay, that's different. Yeah. Like, there's something about, like, I don't know. Is it Locust Star? Is it the Locust Star? That sounds correct. It's unreal.

real. Yeah. But then also when that VHS has like early like Power Man 5,000. Yeah. No disrespect to all the Power Man 5,000 fans out there. But I remember thinking like, okay, so that's really gimmicky. Sure. And like coal chambers on there. I'm like, that's really Yeah, you can tell. And then you watch Earth

Crisis and you're like, they have X's on their hands. That might be gimmicky. But I want to know more. I want to know more. And they're just dressed like normal people. Yeah. And like it's harder and heavier than almost anything else on this. Well, it's always fascinating as a kid to start refining what you don't like.

You know? Because like there is a conscious moment. I remember the first movie I saw in theaters that I thought to myself, I didn't like that. Was Sky Captain in the World Tomorrow? And I was pretty, I was old enough to be like, I should have not liked a movie by then. But refining your tastes musically is, that's where you really begin.

It's being like, I don't like that. I do like this. Yeah. I'm going to chase this. I love how metallic. your entry is, I bet most people would be surprised by that from you.

But they don't know about your first bands like I do. They don't know. Before we get there, did it ever blow your young mind that Sepulah toured with Earth prices? Like, did you ever, did you discover that?

So, there was a record store in Burbank that I eventually got a chance to work at, called Backside. The base player of Downset worked there, James Morris.

He, in so much, many ways became my shepherd even before I started working there to be like I remember going in and getting do we speak a dead language signed by him because I just loved that record uh like I thought rage was cool but I was like downside that's that's fucking Southern California like came out around the same time you know I mean granted second I know southern California as well respectfully uh but like it had just like a different it was way more hardcore obviously so that interests me a lot and I remember talking to him and him telling me stories about like

oh yeah we took VOD on their first tour him telling me insane stories about them touring with Pantera and tons of stories about turning with Earth Crisis you know and just stuff where you're like holy shit like you actually were like right there for all of this stuff so he's your old head in terms of just entry into the world the greater world yeah absolutely like once I

once there was little I'm curious if you might have you might have had this too where it was like because I liked a lot of like I loved deaf tones also super early on like as soon as I got into corn I found deaf tones like

makes sense. A week later. You were just looking at the Adidas. Adidas catalog. I was like dreadlocks yeah but yeah like adrenaline was massive for me when that came out and loving the deaf tones going to DB Coopers, opening every CD,

reading all the liner notes, Chino sings on In This Defiance from Strife. That's right. So I was like, and Dino from Fear Factory plays on it too. So I see both those names and the credits, and I was like, what the fuck is this CD? Bought that, that's still like an all-time favorite hardware. And then you find out there from down the street.

Yeah, and totally. And I was like, wait, and this is California or whatever. And then Victor Records. And then I'm like, I know that because of the Earth Crisis thing. and now I'm going to buy Snapcase. Now I'm going to buy anything. This is the universal tale until like internet. Yeah, literally.

The liner notes, the thank you notes, the features and all that stuff is like a true lost art that I don't think will ever recover. No, because even like Spotify-related artists are wrong. Dog shit. Yeah. Like you could still put it in the records

and I hope people do. Yeah. We do. You know, I'm sure, but you're not looking for it for the same reason. You don't have to look anymore. Yeah.

Yeah. And I wonder if there's also the aspect of there are so many pivotal hardcore records that everybody just knows to point to be like that one. And then you have the thank you list to be like here's my path, right? Whereas like nowadays we're all in bands that put out several records at all times. So I don't know if it's as easy for someone to find the record from one of your bands. The record from one of

your bands kind of a thing to be like now which thank you list do I fall? There could be some underrated record no one's ever heard of with the greatest thank you list of all time. True, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you would never know. But it's, I mean, the, the, the origin of our genre, hardcore, is right there, you know, and it is this traceable tree that you can follow to get to us, you know? Yeah. And, and I hope people learn about the roots of that tree every time we talk about them. That's why you do it. It is the, it is a genre where that is important. Yeah. You know, and it just, it puts everything in context. Earth Crisis and the Bad Brains?

There's one, there's like, there's one line that separates them. There's a thing that always I feel like gets talked about too in its similar conversations is like when you take a chance on a CD, you know? Where you're like, you see the label and you're like, it's used, it's eight bucks. Yeah, I'll grab it. And it's so rough, but you're like, well, I spent my allowance on it. I'm going to listen to it. I'm going to make myself like this.

Absolutely. And you eventually kind of do. Track 8 is like, that was pretty good. But there is, what's interesting too is even when pirating came along, there was still a sense of that because it was a pain in the ass to just get it on your eyes. It's about six hours downloading all 30 megabytes of this album. You know what I mean? 92 kilobytes per second. Yeah.

A friend of your show, someone I just had, Davey Havoc. So I got to tell him that I think my intro to AIFI was the God Money soundtrack. which they were on, but also had also had descendants, which still has my favorite descendant song on it because I bought that, but I bought that because it has, because Strife was on it, because Far was on it, because it had all of this stuff. There's the band Living Sacrifice, like Christian Musuga, basically, hearing that being like, what the fuck?

But it was, that was also became a roadmap, like just discovering that soundtrack. And just thinking, what the hell? So how does that turn into finding local? community in hardcore. Who are your, who's your circle in Burbank, Burbank H.C. I had to go to Orange County. Really? That's where I started. Taken. Taken was huge. Like, I had friends that knew them, so I got to know them. There was Cooze Cafe out in Orange County that I would go to, see them play. They were always playing with bands like Curl Up and Die from Vegas, so it got friendly with those people. The first tour I ever got to, I ever did, was.

was selling merch for Taken, and they were supporting Poison the Well. Oh. And, like, Poison the Well. That's a good first tour. It was, you know, four days, something like that. No, you don't. But, like, it was my first experience.

Being in a van, selling merch at a show, like, being around new people. You know, I was probably 18 years old. Were you pitting hard every one? No, I was just at the table. But just by being, like, it's cool. Yeah, I'm on tour right now.

Yeah, just on tour. It's neat. But yeah, it was really cool. And then the base player of Taken, Nick Beard went on to be in Circus Survive. And so when we got the offer to open for Circus Survive back in 2012, it was because of that connection I had with Nick Beard back one. So that was like super nice. Did he remember you?

Oh, yeah, yeah. We didn't know each other pretty well, yeah. But he had moved to the East Coast, and I hadn't seen him in so long. So Orange County becomes your local. scene. You got a couple guys in Burbank, though. I did. You did. You would start a couple bands with them. We'll get there in a second.

You can't wait. I can't wait. When do you start collecting records? Burbank band. It's a Burbank band called Bleedy Kansas. Do you remember a band called Bleedy Kansas? They put out records on Abacus, which was that Century Media affiliated label,

but they got to record with Curb Blue. So for a band from Burbank, Dude, you guys are recording a Kurt Baloo, like, holy shit, right? So they to us, like, even when Tushay started, the very first Tushay song on the very first demo is called The Gociating the Shade. I wrote it on guitar, and that's why it sounds nothing like any other Tusha songs

because that was the one song I wrote, right? And it was me just trying to write a Bleeding Kansas song. Like, it just straight up is like... You're just keeping that O.G. Burbank shit alive. Alive, right. The drummer of Bleeding Kansas gentleman named Daniel Polliette. He just filled in for us. playing drums for Elliot

because Elliot has a new baby. So he, so Daniel, the man who played in Bleen, Kansas and got me into collecting vinyl, yeah, he's still honest. He's just played with those. It's so cool to play with him.

He's in Horse the Band. Oh, really? Yeah, he's a drummer, Horse the Band. Horse the Band is Burbank H.C.? By association? Affiliating. They kind of have some Burbank. Okay, all right, well, yeah.

You learn. Base player. We learn. Base player of Thriller was also on Horse really we'll get there in seconds what's what do you think is the craziest single thing in your record collection uh well i i i'm it's it's tough but because i have sentimental but then i have also like value i'm talking value i'm talking about monetary value yeah yeah um i have like all the like i have every pressing of jane dough like that helps you know uh but also before we were on camera

we're talking about Hellfest. The last Hellfest that happened in 2004, I think it was, I brought such little money, but I was like, I'm going to want to buy some merch, you know. So I probably brought like 100 bucks or something like that. I could get you far back. Yeah, back then, yeah. So I was like, I brought 100 bucks with me, you know.

Literally 10 T-shirts. Yeah, truthfully. And I walked in, and this guy had his distro out and was selling his personal collection. And the first flip was Asatia 7-inch. and it's like, it's like this, it's called like the Coffin Kids Club 7-inch, which is like hand-numbered out of 25. And it's like the most sought-after thing. And the fact that it was like the first flip. And then I went to his LPs and the first flip of that was the Sacia LP, which was

also impossible to find. So I literally spent my $100 on two records immediately. I was like, well, I'm done. I'm done. That's it. I'm not coming home with anything except these. Yeah. And then at one point, I had him in my backpack. Andrew W.K. was on stage later that night. I was circle pitting with everybody else. And someone came out to me and he was like, your backpack's open. Scary.

Oh, my God. At that point in my life, scariest mode of your whole life. At that point in my life, that was the scariest moment. The craziest thing? Yeah. Probably that Halloween 7 inch.

Halloween 7th. Oh, he's got a good one. He got a bag too. I do have the bag. It's whatever. It's awesome. What about you?

Aside from, he gave me a walk among us, first press. That's probably monetarily the most, I think. But I also have, I have a double R mastering of Led Zeppelin, too. The one that skips. It's mastered so loud. Yeah.

That is cool. You have a specific record you regret selling or trading? Yes. I had an original pressing of hums downward as heavenward on blue vinyl, which I got an amoeba for $7. And someone I still know, to this day. I was like, oh, I have this

orchid split 7 inch. And at the time, I was, like, getting really into all this primo stuff. And I was like, yeah, for sure. And we did the trade, and, like, it was a very quick interaction. And then I realized it was an extremely water-damaged cover.

So I was, I felt very... I immediately kind of knew I fucked up. Yeah, yeah. But now, like, it kind of haunts me. Well, we'll see if we can find that for it. That buyer's remorse, that feeling. When you get God. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then it's like that record goes for quite a lot. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. When did the long, straightened hair come for you? Because, man, it was such a unique vibe when I was like, this guy's wild. Yeah. I can't even imagine your hair.

Oh, it was unbelievable. Oh, that's funny. It was unbelievable. It was iconic, really. some of us were just really victims of the era yeah yeah yeah um i never had cool hair let me start by saying that but you're pitting for andrew wk at health as so forth so like you're you're cool you know i appreciate you're doing great i never had cool hair it was always just like like dense and and like curly but like

Like it couldn't do anything, you know, and I never had a cool hair. All my friends had straight, long hair, you know, like, just always, like, or like everyone had like what I called the pantera, like the shave underneath the ponytail up in junior high. Everyone I knew had that. So like, I just never had, you know, just I was like the odd person out just being like, man, I got nothing over here. And so when all of a sudden it was like, wait a man, I can grow this out and just,

and now I can be one of them. Uh-huh. Yeah, I was terrible at doing it, though. Do you have any photos of it? Oh, sure. Here they are. Now you have to do it. Wow, that looks crazy.

Isn't that great? That's nuts. I saw him gigging with that hair for years. Would you find this photo that you're using? You sent it to me. I sent it to you? Yeah. After the we were doing.

Fantastic. Great. I'll find, like, the least embarrassing. Yeah, no, it's up to you. You choose your own destiny. Yeah. It'll be a photo. from us playing at the Cobalt. I love it.

I'm probably there. Your hair is naturally curly? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And over the pandemic, I felt it fitting and I was like... Fuck it. That's how to do it, man. It's funny, because we met very briefly

in Belgium in 2010. Yeah. Nails, Parmes Way and Rise of All played and Tusha played too. The show got combined. Yes. We met very briefly. I think there's one other band that was on that that also makes it crazy. Trap them.

Yeah. I think. Yeah. Stacked show. Yeah, it was like a stacked show in Hussalt, Belgium. No one was there. But it was good. Yeah.

But we met briefly, and I don't... Me, you look the same in my mind. Oh, I did not have that hair then. Okay. Yeah. No, not this. No, no, but even any hair. Oh, oh, oh, yeah, sure.

It just had like short brown hair. Yeah. It was just... Classic hair. Just, it was just hair. Classic hair. Yeah. You've had such a unique speaking voice

from the day I met you. Yeah. Was that a source of adversity for you growing up? You know, it's funny. I've thought about going into this here. Let's do it. Yeah. Because I've never been open about this.

Oh. So it's a condition. Wow. So throughout all my years, especially being in Touche, and having to do interviews, on the road and every time having to do an interview on the road, a voice is thrashed or whatever. Or just people hear me talk regularly and they're like,

that guy fucked up his voice. I've always sounded. You've known me a lot of that. I've always sounded like this. It is a condition. And do you, have you ever heard, do you know anything about, was this leading anywhere?

No, no. Okay, okay. Because I have a record label. It's called Secret Voice. And that's been an inside joke for people closest to me who like know what that is. Because if I wanted to, I could talk like that. You just... Dude, what?

I just jumped out of my skin. What? You just scared the hell out of me. So you've always... Dude, you're like the incredible Hulk. You're always angry. And that's your secret. That's crazy.

That was unbelievable. There was a rapper. There was a hip-hop guy recently. Holy shit. I thought, I thought Taylor just played something. Yeah, that was unreal. What is the condition? Bad-ass motherfucker, Ivan?

God damn, dude. Holy shit. This ties in to, like, all things, tusha. Okay. I can't talk louder than this. Like, I just can't. Like, my voice breaks up. Okay.

But I yell in tusha. Yeah. Hey. Hey! That's that. So it's two different things. So it's called mutational falsetto. That's your falsetto?

No, my talking voice. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. So you're talking in a falsetto. My talking voice is this. And it's, it is, it's like curable. Oh.

If you read about it. Don't you dare hear that? No. You are not. Is there a need to cure it other than convenience? So when you read about it, it's basically like, so we can get personal. Absolutely, as personal as you want.

I feel comfortable here. This is the Lord, hard lore, so it's lore. And I thought about talking about this too, because you guys have a great platform. And I think I've historically gotten really frustrated by the amount of people who just think I'm bad at my job, you know, or just like, oh, that guy can't do this or something like that. Which is insane. Like, you've sounded this way from the day I met you. Totally. And you are the singer of a coveted band, a genre leading band, and you have a fucking podcast, you know? Right, yeah. And the podcast for me was my way of kind of confronting my, because this is the thing I'm, like,

absolutely most self-conscious about. Like, really? A hundred percent. Like, when I, the amount of times of my life when I meet somebody for the first time and they'll be like can I get you some tea that type of thing sure it's just like it's just always been something that I'm like super it's why I don't like being in loud environments like you go into a bar because I can't project I know exactly and I it's that sort of a thing so I get really stressed out about it and so I was a late bloomer and I think having all my friends mature faster than me made me then nervous about my voice then changing. Sure.

So without me realizing it, it kind of like stuck me in this place where I mentally just like, I was like, I refused. This is what I've learned about reading about it. It's kind of like you refuse to like let it all happen naturally, even though your body completely changes in every other way. Yeah. So it's just it's, that's at least what I've learned from it. But like you can, if you read, it's like, oh, this is something that.

that is curable through going to basically like voice therapy. Holy shit. Because what I just did for you guys was like the lowest version of it. That was great. I'm still. Yeah, I mean, I can talk. It can get really low down there. Do you know about this, Erica?

But I, but this is probably what my voice would, would be, which is like a little bit of a mid register. Yeah. Wow. This is crazy. How many people know about this? Probably. So, this is interesting.

I used to, it used to be my party trick on tour with bands that, like, I become close with. Of course, yeah. It's like, not something that I've, I talked about. Sure. My family didn't really even know I could do it. I don't know that they, we never talked about it. So, for me, it was like a fun party trick. Yeah.

And it was always called Secret Voice. Wow. Jeremy did the secret voice Yeah, right Right but But I've also been very protective of it Where like if I If you and I were on tour together

And I did it for you And you thought it was a riot Don't tell you. And then We're at a show A year later And you go up and you're like Yo do them

Would never Wow It's like You hear that? Yeah Don't do that So that's also why it's like Here it's like

Because I think a part of me Wanting to potentially talk about it was maybe put to rest the amount of people who just don't understand what's wrong with me. You know? And the amount of, you know, people in my life, whether friends, lovers, whatever, who are just like, you're you. Like, you're good. Like, you know, my, you know, my girlfriend right now is like, I would have never thought twice about how you sound.

No, dude. Which is nice to hear, but my brain's, it's hard for me. It's hard for my brain not to be like, what do you, like, I don't believe you. Because it's the thing that I'm like most self-noughtrous of. You know, but this is not about your voice, but just you in general. Yeah. Is like, we'll tell people like what episodes we have coming up. We did this six times.

And it'll be like the chorus, hardcore people imaginable. Yeah. Beat down guys. And we'll be like, yeah, we got this coming up. We got Jeremy Bolm coming up. They'll be like, get Jeremy sick. Like, no matter who it is. Like literally multiple people today.

multiple people today we were super bowl is today we were at a super bowl party multiple people today were like great guy what a guy god jeremy's awesome so don't matter what you sound like yeah nobody said crazy voice everybody said great guy oh i appreciate that yeah and you know i mentioned being nervous for this like i think that was lingering my head and also as i've gotten older the more nervous i get i feel my voice break up a lot more oh so there's also that it's it's all mental Exactly. You and I maybe have talked about this where like someone wants to explain to me

losing your voice is mental, which is I kind of believe it because for instance, you have like a monk-like practice though where you're doing this thing. Yeah. That your control of your voice is kind of mental. Does it hurt you to do the secret voice?

Not at all. It's a choice. It's a choice. And I've met. You're so awesome. Which one is the secret voice, by the? The deep one. The abyss.

Just being able to do that. The one he summons is the secret one. So like. I didn't know if that was the secret or if the secret was that he's using it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No. There was a rapper, a hip hop artist, recently I saw on YouTube shorts of my algorithm. He does the same thing.

He speaks in a very high-pitched voice. But sings in a different... No, not even his singing voice. And people would ask him when he'd be like, because. and he would go into the other voice. His secret voice. Oh, interesting. I'm sure somebody will comment

and let us know who it is. I can't remember what it is. I've met two people in my life now. Really? Yeah. It's not my place to say, but one plays in a band within our world a bit. And he was the first person to talk to me about it.

Did he clock it or did he know? The first time we met, he said, you got the big boy voice, don't you? This is a secret secret. Dude, what? A secret voice society. And it kind of fucked me up a bit, and I do feel some guilt there because I think he was looking for comfort.

And I kind of was like, I didn't know it was a thing. Like, to find out that this thing that I just thought was my shit was like a condition is what kind of fucked me up. Was there any comfort? I don't think so. Because I guess just to kind of find out that it's like, oh, it's a condition. like a medical condition. Yeah, but that's like the coolest medical condition. But it's funny, so playing shows, touring and stuff like that, I can yell all day. Yeah. But my talking voice

can get fucked up. Yeah. Yes. From doing that. So like I can still go do my job, but it gets harder to like communicate. And then when I'm on the road, it's like, hey, you have two interviews today. I'm just like, great, because all the comments are going to be, this guy can't fucking do a shit and it's just like and I know you're not supposed to read the comments and stuff like that but after while it fucking it eats at you Jeremy yeah tell me about your first band ever so the first band what's called victim of atrocity aren't we all hardest name for a bunch of white kids from burbank californ it's a really hard name yeah wow that's an earth crisis song time yeah yeah it was I mean it was it was so bad I sang and played a standard tune

guitar that I guarantee you was not in tune and it was like but we were like playing like blind and standard oh cool so sick yeah just awful uh we played a we played a talent show that was that was like the first time ever getting up on stage and did that i was wearing an adidas jumpsuit my two band members were dressed like maryland manson so which era of manson yeah like antichrist yeah yeah okay rib with the one with ribs off the ribs yeah yeah yeah now uh forgive me for asking Sure. Did you or have you ever sang in the secret voice? That's what I mean, well, that...

In like an aggressive way, you know what I mean? That's literally what Tuchet is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, anytime it's just like, hey! Oh, I'm sorry, I meant like a low... Here we are all. Yeah, yeah. Bear and give.

So, I mean, if someone was to listen to like the songs in Tusha where I'm like, where I'm actually singing singing, you can be like, I've heard plenty of people be like, Is that you? Different voice. Kind of a thing. Benediction. Like something like that.

Who's that guy? Yeah. Yeah. It's been him the whole time. It's been me the whole time. So, okay, victim of atrocity. Okay, victim of atrocity. Now.

I know where you want. Is that your first real bad? Cut to the chase. Okay. So, I then, so victim atrocity is where I get my, like, I play guitar, like, this is whatever. And then get to high school, meet a gentleman named Zach. who he and I find straight edge the same time,

become straight edge together. We decide we should start a band, so we do. And at first it's extremely new metal. We're like a very new metal band, even had a DJ at some point. He had a lot of bands with DJs at that, Zach. Yes, he did. Yes, he did. Yeah.

And so that band was called Stricken. Here we go, baby. Yeah. So it was originally called denounce. Okay. Sick name. All good names so far. And then became stricken. I think even shrapnel was in there at some point.

Fucking that. Dude. Hard. These are all hard names. Yeah. I'm with it. So stricken, to my knowledge, is like the godfathers of the combining breakdowns and like electronic dance parts genre.

Yeah. Our joke for the longest time is like, We were the Fugazi of the worst shit The game later in life You like broken side You are Ian Mackay To Blood on the Dance floor 100%

Hold Yeah because but also And I was in the pit Dude You saw shaking my ass Oh kicking my spins I'll tell you what I mean

You know it's funny because If you were to like Walk into that room now and watch it It was probably a much smaller situation But to us at that time, it was like, those Cobalt shows got pretty packed. Yeah. And it was like a bunch of bands kind of doing beat downy sort of stuff. And then we would go up there.

And you saw stricken at the Cobalt Cafe. A ton. We were the house band. This was fascinating. I had no idea. He told me I would like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, so we would have people swinging on each other.

And then all of a sudden, all the girls would come in. just started dancing like crazy. It was crazy. And then they would leave and club dance? Yes. They had actual dance. I understand. I just didn't know. And then they would clear out and then the marshes would come back. Adult swim. And like, listen, in my mind it's packed.

Yeah, yeah. In mine too. I imagine the density was lower than we're used to now and that's why there was plenty of room for all. For shenanigans. Whatever kind of dancing they're referring. But my God. And like So Zach from the singer Stricken was one of the singers

of Fight Everyone. So when Fight Everyone started, it was like, you got the Stricken guy? Yeah, it was So what was fun about that band and continued to be fun as we then changed her name to Thriller

and got a different singer, Zach left to eventually be in Fight Everyone. we got a gentleman named Kevin. Michael. We, we like made all that dance music ourselves. Like, you know what I'm saying? In the sense of like it was all pedals

and we didn't have keyboards or anything like that. It was all like... Was a drum machine, programmed drums? No, the drummer would play. Yeah, we just literally went into the parts. Practical effects. Wow. Practical effects, yeah.

Movie magic, baby. Burbank. That's how we do it, dude. Stricken. Go back and listen to Stricken. It's crazy. And now let me ask you, where are you getting as stricken? Where are you getting that? Like, where's the inspiration for that?

The dude who played bass in the band, Brian Grover, he's the one who ended up being in Hors the band. He and I had this vision of being like, yo let's combine like yeah the metal core of the day we love converges A-O fucking earth crisis any of that sort of stuff

breakdown-y stuff we also love the faint and we're like if we can just combine the faint with this we will be extremely unique in what we're doing it's a scientist in the lab not considering whether or not they should

right a hundred percent is Yeah, Oppenheim. You know, so the vial spilled and a gremlin was born. Truthfully, truthfully. And, like, I haven't listened to those songs in definitely 20 plus years, but, like, it's definition part core. Like, it's just every song is five and a half minutes long. You're like, what are we doing?

It's just part to part to part. So how does this all, because thrillers kind of right before Tushmore? It was like a year different. Really? Yeah. What time were we talking about? I think Thriller, because Thriller was my first touring, real touring experience, like playing in bands. You know, like not doing merch kind of a thing.

And that was the most important, like, boot camp situation of all time. I mean, it was the classic tale of, like, booking tours through Myspace kind of a thing. We historically did not play a major city where, you know, you talk to someone and they're like, oh, shit, dude, you're coming to, you're coming to Oregon. Where's your show in Portland? You're like, no, brother, Salem. Eugene, yeah, yeah. Like, oh, you guys are, damn, you guys are playing Boise? No, I'm in Twin Falls.

Ah, you know, like. Sleeping on the floors of the showgo. Shows, showing up, shows not happening. Like, just everything that could have gone wrong, but also the classic, all of my best stories are from that. And truly the salad days. Like the times that you don't think. are that great that are just priceless?

And most importantly, we had no business touring. No, like, we weren't on a label. We just thought we should because of the amount of, like, plays we had on MySpace. That's how that was determined. You were huge in Santa Clarita. Yeah, we can crush it at... Right near Magic Mountain, you guys were one of the biggest fans.

Yeah, tour out to maybe Thousand Oaks to, you know, play Kung Fu Corner. Maybe. Maybe. But yeah, if we tried to play LA proper, like if we tried to play like the smell, no one's going to that. I might have seen you at like the knitting factory or something, but I for sure actually,

I think I saw a thriller in like New Hall. Some real New Hall H-T-U type. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there was that venue that was out there for a minute. Which was sick. Yeah. Like one of Tuchet's first shows was there. And it was us, Trash Talk, Trapped Under Ice.

Trapped Under Ice is first. Great show. Yeah, internal affairs. Yeah, I was there. Yeah, we were first of, Three-N-thrillor? No, no, no. This was too-shae.

Okay, okay, we moved in. Let's talk about the beginning of Tusha-M-Wa. How do you meet Nick, Clayton? Who else was in the band of the time? At that time, a gentleman named Tyson, original guitar player, and a gentleman named Z, who played drums originally. Jeremy Zepnett, his name was Jeremy, went by Z. Yeah, and Nick played bass.

Didn't play guitar. So Clayton was on guitar, Tyson was on guitar. V vocals, Zeon drums. It was a fun situation because, so I had left Thriller, it was just very clear that it was time to go, kind of a situation. And I'd always, so it's kind of fun. We toured with a band called I Am the Ocean.

They were from Salt Lake City. And the most like road dog band of all time, we're like literally like a week before this tour. to do together was starting, their singer couldn't go anymore. They're like, we'll still do it. And they just played instrumental. They said, fuck it. Just like that much loving being on the road kind of guys. To them, they were like, if there are six people there, it's a good show. Like, that was their mentality. Just true heads, right? Different time, you know. So when they didn't have a singer, they had one song that was like super short and very aggressive. And I was like,

can I try singing it? And there's a video of it somewhere. I just felt exactly. I just felt exactly. I'm exhilarated doing it. And I think hearing that voice come out, all of that sort of stuff, which I didn't know what happened. I was just like, I'm just going to yell and see what happens. It gave me just like this sort of rush and excitement. So I just started, I wanted to just sort of chase that. So I left Thriller and then within four months.

I probably put Touche together. It was very fast. Yeah. So I met our original guitar player Tyson at a party. And we had a funny, like, connection where, like, we both, he and I both had girlfriends, long-distance girlfriends that lived in Louisiana at one point. Oh, wow. And they were, they were once best friends.

And then once we started dating, they weren't friends anymore. So I would always hear about Tyson. And he would always hear about me, but we never met, right? And it was like, holy shit, you're the guy. And one night, I'm at a party. and like a little small get-together and I'm in a standing circle and I hear that this guy's name is Tyson

and I just said are you Tyson White and he goes are you Jeremy Baum? And I said do you want to go talking about Louisiana on the front porch? Holy shit. And we went out there and just instantly became friends. Just like one of the fastest friendships

of my life and so we'd get around to hanging out all the time and he would just kind of mess around on this acoustic that was laying around his house and he would play these really like dissonant like just uncomfortably melodic chords all the time and I'm like, what is that? And he had never played guitar out of an amp before.

Never been in a band, nothing. And I was like, we should start a band. So he used all of my stuff from Thriller when the band started. I was just, like, I used to have to set up his amp like the whole nine. And Nick's best friend, his man named Dewee, I don't know if you ever knew Dewey, but he played in a band with Dewey called Tiptoe Charlies, was a big cobalt band.

Right next to the sheds all the time. All the time. All the time. Yeah, yeah. So I hit up Dewey to play bass. And Nick said, there's no way Dewey's going to that. I'll do it. So Nick grabbed his bass and came to band practice. Wow.

So that's how Nick joined. Z was just someone who played. Daniel Poliat, who I mentioned, is still to this day, like one of the most incredible drummers of all time he has a swagger to him which is just like undeniable. Z was basically the baby version of Daniel because he learned everything there is to know about drums

from Daniel. So we're like we can't get Daniel. Let's get Z. Yeah. Okay. So like the drumming difference on like Dead Horse and the demo wildly different from Elliot. Elliot brought just like insane energy to him and like

you could tell like a kid who listens to like Charles Bronson. and all that sort of stuff. He's blasting like there's no tomorrow. Absolutely. So like, Shredder. And then Clayton was the last one to join.

And, but what was cool is like, not everybody knew each other. It was kind of like getting a bunch of almost kind of strangers in a room to be like, let's see what comes out. It's like the real world. Yeah. What's that?

It's like the real world. Yeah. I don't really know anybody else in the end except for Clayton. Yeah. Who is unbelievable. He's great.

I can't believe Clayton. Yeah. Pardon this interruption. Before we get back to this long-awaited episode with my good friend, Jeremy Baum, we got to talk to you about two real quick things that made this episode possible. That's right. We do. What do we have first?

Well, first off, there's something that makes every day possible for us, though. And that is a G-1. You're absolutely right, Colin. Tell the people how we both start both of our days every single day. One little scoop of this beautiful green. powder that now comes in multiple flavors, all of which you can sample for free if you order the welcome kit at drinkagy1.com slash hardlore. We never had a winter slump because we've been drinking AG1 this whole time. Ag1 is a daily health drink clinically shown to support gut

health and fill in common nutritional gaps. With more than 75 ingredients, including five clinically studied probiotic strains, AG1 completely replaced. places the need for a daily multivitamin, probiotics, and more. That's right. It eliminates the need to juggle various pills and supplements and all this stuff. You just got one little packet about this size. How do we take it, Colin? One little scoop, cold water, done, shake it up, suck it down, done. Energy, immune health, gut health. And boy, did we need better gut health before AG1 walked in and sprinkled green all over our lives. Drinkage1.com

slash horridor right now you're going to get the free welcome kit including the canister the bottle a year's supply of vitamin D and K drops and again the flavor sampler check it out. Let us know live a better life.

This episode is also brought to you by Louder Than Life Festival the biggest rock metal hardcore punk music festival in the world ever maybe? We were talking about it right before we started

shooting and this is a crazy lineup. You got Danzig, you got Megadeth, you got Mykem, you got Sublime, you got Tool, you got Danny Elfman. It sounds made up. Yes, it sounds like one of those drafts. Iron Maiden Alice Cooper, Anthrax, twitching tongues, blood for blood, agnostic front, madball, tsunami, angel dust, haywire. If you listen to the show, there's like 30 bands you'll probably want to see. And hey, We'll be there the whole time. So go to Lauderthefestval.com. Pick up a weekend pass.

Pick up a camping pass. You can camp there. They got all kinds of stuff. They have vendors and food. They have roller coasters. What? Yeah, because it was in Kentucky Kingdom, which was like kind of six flags.

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My birthday is the next day, so get a pass and then bring me something. Back to the episode. Okay, so tell me about putting this demo together. Okay. The TA record is just called now, right? Just like listed as like self-titled or something like that, sure. Yeah, so, I mean, for the longest time and honestly still to this day, our goals as a band kind of are the same, which is put out as many cool things on vinyl as possible, play as many cool shows as possible. That was the only things we cared about. I love it. Nick having a huge art background was so instrumental and continues to be instrumental.

He was going to Cal Arts at the time ended up graduating. He's had an insanely amazing career and it just gets crazier and crazier every day. Well, do you think the sunbather art was like the turning point for him? I think that was one I was like, yeah, I became a wild dealer.

But like at that point he'd already done covers for like Britney Spears and Pink and Katie Perry you know, it's like, so he was already but he was working under a company. At that point he hadn't gone fully independent, but I think within our world. But I mean, like, that Sunday their cover ended up, like, getting, like, on the Apple iPhone thing. It was on the front door.

It was on the window of the store. Yeah. So, like, he also going to Cal Arts at the time had all this cool stuff at his disposal, like, screen printing rooms and all sorts of stuff. So he and I just kind of clicked pretty quickly about that stuff. So, like, the two-shade demo originally came in, like, a DVD case that is all silk screen, like, full, booklet like the whole like this whole insane thing and like I said like vinyl was always the goal

I knew Chris Hansen who ran Chris or sorry who ran Dateline NBC. Dayline NBC I was like there's no way to say that name without that joke coming directly after especially if you paused yeah you made me do it I made you do it he ran no sleep records

oh yeah and he was working I knew him because he worked a Revelation he like worked in the warehouse at rev and I knew he started this label it was super new at the time and I kind of was like you know I bet that guy would pay for it kind of a deal so and he was always nice enough

so I hit up Chris and was like hey man I got this band would you maybe put this out and he was like yeah I'm down and at that same time he had just put out the first lot of speed CD and also like the Wonder Years like a CD for the Wonder Years or something like that.

So he was starting to like get stuff that would eventually make his label much bigger and everything else. But he only ended up doing a couple seven inches with us like splits and stuff like that. Like we did a lot of speed split.

I think that might actually be out with him. Oh, and a casket lottery split. But I mean, once that happened, it was just kind of we were off and running with wanting to put out. Yeah, man. It seems like you kind of figured out who you were right away.

Like honestly, it was on the demo. Yeah. And like, you're still playing that, right? Yeah. You have to. You have to. It's a good song.

Yeah. I don't, thankfully we don't hate the song. No, it's great. It's fortunate. You know? And it's like, it doesn't not fit with what you're doing today. Yeah. And that's hard to say for all of the bands.

It's so funny, it's like, we, there's got, when Harms Way, were you original Harmon's way, original member, right? When you guys started, are there things in the early catalog that you're like, oh, that's so clearly. we were directly ripping this thing off. Yeah, we played four of them last night. They did. It was awesome. Yeah, of course, because you don't even expect people to hear it. Ever hear it.

Let alone know where you're getting it from. There are things like in some of those early songs that I go, yeah, that's that. Yeah, that's that. It's like, like, a show that we played last the other year was, we got to play with page 99, which is like one of the biggest influences to our band or whatever. but in Onesleep, the whole last part is the biggest page 99's on. And I just yelled out. I was like, we're talking this from page 99?

You know what I'm saying? It's like, it's like so clearly us trying to do a part like that. I mean, the opening to To Ones Sleep also is converge. Oh, wow. From fucking. You feel me? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's like we didn't know what we were doing. We were just kind of playing stuff that we liked, but we weren't. You know, you hear it later and you're like, oh, shit. that's cool you dude we must wear what we love on our because then when people discover that they go back and they find things and it leads

to Jake's been able to make a bunch of money exactly in many ways in many ways to the beat of a dead horse debut LP yeah fully realized version of the band

I mean you've the last record you've done there's some changes you've experimented you've grown but like you're too shaman All right. Here, first LP. What years is this? 2009.

This is when I learned all these songs and the first record because we talked about me being in the band. Yes. Pretty cool. Yeah. I don't remember what happened with that. I think you found Elliot. Oh.

I think it was so, I remember it was right before Sound Infuri 2009. Yeah. I was about to graduate high school. I was 17. And it was like, you were like, just learning. Here's our demo. here's our new thing. You sent it to me early. Learn this and like, let us know if you want to do it.

And I think Elliot was just like right then. And like he's so the guy, you know? There's a great video of us playing Caliubor Alice where you sing the Jeff Rickley part. Part's awesome. Do we have a clip? We do have a clip. Here it is. I can't believe that was you. That part rules.

So skinny, so little. I know. I was so very skinny. Dude, that song's a rule. It's still on the internet. It is for sure. So I don't know how much we would have maybe talked about it, but the van had broken up. Oh.

That's not, it's like we've talked about it a little bit here and there. I think maybe when we were doing the anniversary of Dead Horse stuff, maybe we talked a little bit more about it. But Z wanted to quit. Z quit. And if you look at even the liner notes on Dead Horse, it's the four of us, and then it says drums on this album by a German. Because he was like, I don't want to be in this anymore.

I'm out. I checked on Discogs today and there's no credit. progress. So we were like, fuck, in our mindset we were just like, well, he's such an important part of this man. We can't be a band without him. And then we were like, well, we wrote all these songs and we like, let's at least go record them. So we have them. That was the mindset.

We didn't have a record deal, nothing. So we were like, let's just go record him. And then this, I think, is who I am at my court where I was like, well, I should probably I mean, if I have the ability to get some cool people to sing on this too. Oh, yeah. So I asked Jeff Rickley from Thursday, who's like, you know, an older brother to me in so many ways.

And the part rules. And then also Jeff Eaton from Modern Life is War had just moved to California. I'd seen him at shows, didn't know him, kind of befriended him, and then just sent him a message. I was like, reducing on my dumb bands thing. And he was like, sure. And he showed up. And his first time raising his voice since the last Modern Life, as a war show was like in that room and just being able to witness that and be like this is

fucking sick so shame the band's breaking up but thanks for doing it totally and then but it was jeff eat and who said wait so you guys are breaking up and we're like why and he's like and we told him and he goes fucking get another drummer yeah it was like as if we never considered it we're like maybe we yeah truthfully so we had a couple fill-ins and like we had two different people played short west coast tours um but then yeah and so what how which I'm sure when we talked was, I was at a barbecue at 6131, who ended up putting out the first record.

Also, just fun, small world situation. So, the singer of Take and Ray Harkins, who does 100 words or less podcast, his roommate, Joey Cahill, who runs 613 on Records, he and I get extremely close, and he's the one who I was like, hey, I guess we're going to stay together. Would you put this out?

And he was like, yeah. Wow. He's incredible. Wow. Niceest guy. Great guy. Want to hear at Records? Want to Hear at Records? Want to hear records?

Want to hear records? Oh yeah. How great store. Never been. It's a great store. Would love the Instagram. Great Instagram, yeah, that's right. Check it out.

So, at a barbecue at 6131, our drummer who's supposed to be filling in for where we get an offer to go on tour opening for Thursday. First of four. Great. 150 bucks a night. Let's go. In 2009, 10, that's some good money. That's some good money. That was union rich standard.

Straight. Yeah. Yeah. Has that been talked about on this show? Oh, yeah. How no money existed until like six years ago? But no one also complained. Yeah.

Our first real tour was one of four for a vacation train. We got $150 a night for five weeks. It's absolutely right. And we were happy to be. Oh, yeah. And then when you break 100 in merch, it's like we did. Dude, that was the true milestone. It was like $120?

I have a rant I'm going to go on in a second about shirt prices. Absolutely. I would love to talk about that. So we. So we get this offer to open for Thursday, and then we book an entire U.S. tour, because we're only on Seattle, I believe Seattle or like Portland, down to Houston. Sure. And then we're like, let's just do the whole rest of the U.S. I book it.

I book it on the Bridge 9 board. Fuck, yeah. Wow. So I literally put up the dates that who can help me out and got the whole thing booked on the B9 board. Wow. So we're like, fuck, our drummer can't do it all of a sudden. He got in trouble. We're like, we can't.

Fuck, he can't do this tour. I'm at a barbecue. Sam Boston is there. One of the greats. Probably front of the show. One of the great. Friend of the show. Friend to all, really?

Yeah, friend to all. He was in trash talk at time. He also filled in for us last year, which was amazing to have happened. So I was like, do you know anybody who plays drums? And he goes, uh, calls Elliot. He and Elliot, friends from the Aqua Mass message board days. Whoa.

Yeah. And Elliot. drops out of college, learns our songs on the drive down, comes to practice, plays them eight times faster, we say this is the fucking guy. Mac just went fuck you. And my god, dude, is he the guy? Yeah. Can you tell me the Elliot Terminator 2 lore? Yeah. Is this where we reveal the Nepo baby aspect of it?

If you want. Obviously, he's gained nothing from that in music whatsoever. He's not better at drumming because of termit because of it. James Cameron, you know? Elliot has the coolest parents because Elliot's dad, Paul Bavin, Sr., Elliot's real name is Paul,

but he just goes by Elliot. I don't know him, so I'm learning at all. Yeah. I didn't even know as you was Elliot. Paul Babbin Sr. voted People Magazine's sexiest cameraman. Is that true? Oh, hell yeah. It's true. Very nice.

He was a camera operator on Terminator 2. And Elliot had, was pretty new to the world at that point. Brand new baby. And there's like the scene where they're shooting on the overpass in the, what do you call, Elie River. Yeah.

And they literally had the helicopter filming go under it. And Elliot's dad was like, I got a new porn. I literally can't do this. And James Cameron said, I'll do it. Grab the camera and did it. Legend. And like, it's legendary in movies that James Cameron shot them. himself. And he did it because of Elliot.

Yeah. Isn't that sick? Who is the pilot? James Cameron. He's like that. But if you look at his dad's IMD, he's got so many bangers. Wow. Like so many bangers. And he's worked with so, it's funny. There's a few, like, worked with some of the most masterful directors, but on that movie?

Yeah, sure. Like he did Francis Ford Coppola on Jack? You know? Jack's pretty good. Which Elliot is in. Hey. You see, and there's like a scene in a doctor's office and he got to be an extra. He's just like, it's like in a pediatrician's office or something like that.

What are your thoughts on T-shirt prices? Yeah. Okay. T-shirt prices. Yeah. Follow me here. Yeah, I'm going to. The arc of a hardcore band can be measured in the prices of their t-shirts.

When you start eight or ten bucks. Now? Hold on. Okay. I'm just saying when you start as a band. Okay. eight or ten bucks, right? They're probably rolled masking tape. Oh, I see, I see, I see. Yeah, yeah. Right. Don't roll. They're printed on the worst blanks. The worst blanks, single-sided,

single color. Yeah, black shirt. Stack them. The thickest white, the thickest white ink of your life. Oh, yeah. Right. But still, you're new. You need them. You need them. Right. Eventually, you're like, I think we got to do 12 guys. I think we got to do 12. So you start selling it for 12 bucks, right? And then you're at the counter and you're like, or you're dealing with it and you're like, fuck, man, ones. Singles. Singles, it sucks. And it's like before anyone would tip you anyway.

So I feel like those tips are going away. You know, you're just dealing with that. And then eventually you're like, you're about three years in, four years in and you're like, I think we can do 15. Come on. We're doing multiple colors now. Let's do 15. Yeah.

Let's do, should we do 15? Let's do 15. And then you're doing 15. And you're like feeling maybe a little guilty about it, that punk guilt is starting to be like, $15, my t-shirts, right? And then you start going on. on tour and you have to all of a sudden price match or or gas you're like fuck are we doing $20 t-shirts guys we really are because we're doing $20 t-shirts and eventually here we are now 30 something like

that right here's the thing here's the phenomenon tell me tell me tell me the consumer the people who want to support you have never batted an eye since the beginning and that is a miracle but you know who has who has made the my eyes bad is printers. The cost of printing is astronomically higher. You could charge $10 for a shirt because it was $2, $3, $4 to make.

But still, even when shirts were $7, we were definitely still selling them for $10. Yeah, and that's like... And it's the punk rock guilt of being like, I know what this costs and we can't charge that much kind of a thing. But so many of us have discounted, people just really want to support your friend.

Yeah, for sure. You know, they're happy. to pay it. They're happy to pay it. And then, but like now, the, the, the, the, the, a shirt selling for $30 now. Yeah. Is probably the equivalent to a 2009 shirt being $10. Or legitimately like 12 to 15. Yeah.

Yeah. They were, it's 15. They were five to print and we sold them for 10. Absolutely. Hellfish baby. Oh, Lord. My God. Well, now to.

A hat that Hellfish made. The other thing. is back then the blank no one cared about no no none of us thought twice all style came came and

and changed the conversation gilden hammered gilden gilden heavy gilden cotton I would have taken it all bella canvas you know like nobody gave a shit was it tullex

was it tullex that one too Toltex I tried to like that for a second no one gave but we didn't give a shit no this this one's weird and now the comfort colors are the most expensive

running the game. Yeah, and everybody won't buy it unless it's on it. Yeah, we kind of created a monster. We didn't, yeah. It's all our fault. Sorry for the diversions. No, no, no. This is, we like that. The people need to hear it. But, and like, and it is fair, but the cost, and I don't blame printers because this stuff costs money and they have a lot of employees. Yeah, labor costs, everything. It's a business.

It's a business. Shipping costs, everything. You can't buy, you know, you can't order one thing of black ink. You got to get them in bulk. There's all kinds of shit. And you get what you pay for, you know, you want a printer to go above and beyond. You're going to, you're going to, you're not going to, you're not going to, So on to the beat of a dead horse. There's a lyric that I wonder if, you know, we'll just get to it.

And I'm sure you're... I'll go to Morrissey to answer my questions because Ian Curtis has left me hanging. Yeah. I would say Morrissey's left you hanging as well. Yeah. As a guy. So starting around...

20, oh, I don't know. I don't want someone to check a YouTube video. I inevitably was like, I'm changing these lyrics. And we re-recorded the record. I changed the lyrics on the way. Who'd you change it to? I'll go to El Cohen to answer in Russians. And then I say,

because Ian Curtis has died. Because I was like, it's kind of a shitty thing to say about, it's kind of like. Yeah, like when you're in 2008, I'm like, oh, I'm fucking clever. Like how clever I am. It is clever. Sure.

But I was like, I think as you get older, you deal with a lot of friends and you lose your friends. You're like, it's not probably something to make a joke about. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I've softened. And look, you know, Morrissey may be politically, personally, all the Lee's. spiritually. Spiritually. Like the worst guy ever.

Yeah. A couple tracks. No less than a thousand bangers. Oh, my God. Yeah. 100%. It's a deep shame how many bangers he had. Yeah, I just don't know that I need him to answer.

No, you don't. No. The questions have been answered and we're not interested in the... And that... I don't know how many people realize that song title is a Smith's reference. What's the title? And now it's happening in mine. Yeah.

You're awesome. Morrissey? Not so much. Tell me about the decision to document every Tushé Mori show. You're the only person I know who's in that. we so when i talk about my relationship with steinhart is that we one of the things we very much bond on is like wanting to archive everything so we even put out like an art book a couple years back where it has every shirt we've ever printed in there it has so cool it has yeah so we always kept the list of

every single show we've ever played um and yeah we still i still update it on the website to this day uh And... Call that foresight. And lore site. And also, been updating and working on now, we even have like a discography page on our website, which shows all the variants,

all the breakdowns, like the matrix numbers, the barcodes, the, the, it's real dork stuff. But yeah. That's a real guy who works the counter at amoeba type thing.

Yeah, I mean, there's so many, what we lack in like, in like, lots of demo recordings and like that sort of stuff we i feel like we make up for it like the amount of uh physical art stuff like it's like we have all of these things like still like laying around yeah i would rather have that uh tell me about re-recording the whole record in 2022 what was the what was the decision there it was so it's it's so funny where we were like oh uh

sorry i don't know if you do you ever you ever work with alex estrata no okay We recorded that record with our very dear friend Alex Estrada. I consider him a sixth number of touche in the sense of every album we do, we record with him first. We go to him, record an entire album, and then do all the pre-pro, and then go record it elsewhere. He's done so much to help me in so many ways. But we went to him and we were like, yo, we kind of want to remix and rematch to that record.

Do you think that's possible? and he goes, I deleted that shit like six months later. Like, you're kidding me? Like, I don't have that. I don't have that. Like, he was, he was, he was the guy to make your demo or album for $200.

Sure, yeah, yeah. You know, so like, he was just recording crust punk band after beat down band, after mariachi band, like, you name it, you go to Alex, he'll get you in and out within, you know, for an album in two days, kind of a guy. So he's like, he didn't think we were going to stick together. So he ended up having to,

Get rid of that stuff. So we're like, well, we can't remix and remaster it. We got two new members that have been playing those songs for the last X amount of years. Like, let's just go do it again. Do it. And I can fix all my grammar, which I did. And now Ian Curtis is just dead instead of hanging. Yep, Leonard Cohen, baby.

R.P, man. You want it darker? Banger. RAPE. When do you feel a shift for Tushu-Morri in terms of just like audience growth? Definitely parting the sea. Like 100% that record. It was, you know, a lightning in,

we felt like it was like a lightning in a bottle sort of situation where we played Santa Feary 2009. And we could not have felt less welcome. Really? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It was, this was a funny thing because I remember, I remember getting some clarity on this, where it was like, the state,

we played the small stage. Yeah. And there was no real runtime. It was just like runtime kind of a deal. We went up there, we were super rushed. And the person who was running the stage, I think we played like a quarter of our set or whatever. He's like, you guys are done.

Like wrap it up, like just kicked us off super, even though as soon as we started, all of a sudden, all the, I think all of the, you know, maybe outlier kids, outsider kids came up and I was so bummed that wasn't playing I was like damn this guy took more spot but he was so good

damn but that wasn't Elliot even that was one of the fillins really that was a guy named Alex Tonya who played yeah yeah in 2009 two cross mixing yeah with heavier stuff and hardcore and less more adjacent stuff yeah what wasn't really happening

yeah were very weird on that yeah it was like black breath and COA on that stage after you after us was I think retaliate played that It could have been. It was unbelievable. I think whoever it was, maybe started the set by saying whatever the fuck that was, kind of went into those situations, which respectfully, I get it, sure. But it's funny getting kind of, like, all right, guys, rap, whatever.

It was Andy Rice. And Andy Rice ended up telling me later, he's like, yeah, that was me. Like, yeah. I just wanted to kick you guys off. I was just like, thanks for all this man. But we still felt that we had a sick show. That was great. Yeah, I was like, whoa, like really just like a, wow, this is different.

And if we go to the merch table, up walks to me, Trey McCarthy, says, hey, how do, he instantly very ball busting because Dead Horse was put out by 6131, 90%, 10% put out by collect records, which is Jeff Rickley's label thing. So he was affiliated. His role was mostly like just kind of helping R&M get out there. So I instantly also learn how ballbusty Trey McCarthy is because he comes up to me and he goes, How do I get your records in my web store without dealing with famous people? Wow.

Or it's like something to that effect. And I was like, it's 6131 kind of a thing. And he was like, you guys were good. And then within, yeah, we had a moment where we were trying to decide whether we were going to do Death Wish, Bridge 9, or Equal Vision. And we went with Death Wish. I have in my notes here. were you a tray band or a Jake band? And you just answered it.

Trey band. Jake band. Jake band. Yeah. Parting the sea between brightness and me. Let's talk about it. Yeah. What were the big inspirations

for this record musically and personally? So Nick has now moved to guitar. So we're bringing in Nick influence. And it's important to say that Nick is not a hardcore kid. Nick likes AFI. He likes the nerve agents. Respect. He likes converge.

Might be it. That's like a little bit of hardcore kids. I could get him in the... But he's like, he loves pop music, he loves... You know, like he's... So, oh, and he... But importantly, he also likes voice that's fire. So a lot of them, a lot of guitar playing from him

is AFI and Boyce That's Fire. That makes a total sense, actually. So that's where he's pulling from, which that starts to change the thing, change sort of the sound altogether. He's pulling from the two bands similar that he likes. Yeah, yeah. That's hilarious.

Yeah, yeah. Like the boss baby, me. Yeah. And then we, so something I think kind of also explains kind of who we are where it was like, okay, you guys signed a Death Wish, surely Kurt's going to do your record, surely Jake's going to do your art. And we said, Nick's going to do our art. And we're going to go to Kansas and record this with the guy who did the Get Up Kids records.

Oh, wow. And the COLS records and the Casket. three records. Like, we want to have that sort of, like, melodic Kansas sound, and we'll do that. So we, yeah, we did the record in, like, three days or something. I think it was three days, yeah. And what comes to mind when I bring this record up to you emotionally? That was, that record to me was your classic, like, struggles of being away from home. Okay. Like, that's what that album is. Like, each record has, like, especially in retrospect, I can,

could look at certain records like dead horse to me was me saying look at all these worries concerns stresses depressions that i have but i'm not doing anything about it i'm just complaining about it so i'm beating a dead horse uh part of the sea was yeah uh being away from home it's hard enough to be away from my family i don't feel good enough like i don't feel like i could put a loved one like a like a girlfriend or something like that through some through something like that so like all of those sort of stresses and the depression that can come from that, all that sort of thing. So yeah, I look at that record as like a, you know, learning to exist on the road while also loving being on the road.

Sure. Like I don't, I'm to this day, I don't get, I don't have a hard time touring. Like I could be on, like, you could put me on tour for a year. Wow. And I won't complain. but what I had a hard time with was what it was doing to the people who cared about. That's the hardest part. Yeah.

So it wasn't like, man, I wish I was home. It was, man, I hate that that's how I'm making people feel. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And this is also the first record you're like intentionally writing. To be an album. To be an album.

Yeah. Like, okay, the band's not breaking up and we're signed to Death Wish. And we have money to do this at a crazy place wherever we want and do whatever we want. Yeah. and it turns into this this like new defining chapter for your band are you a lyrics first guy

like are you writing poetry and fitting it into music the music informs the lyrics always yeah yeah and there was like one song in that record that I was like still writing in the like apartment above just being like it's the song pendolences which

yeah that makes sense to me that that's the one that it was but yeah I'm tracking that entire record and in tracking all the vocals, one song into the next one. Terrible. I can hear my headache. Isn't that the worst? I can hear, like, when I,

when I have had to listen to that record back, I'm like, oh. Like, I hear how much pain I'm in. Wow. Yeah. So does that process change now? Oh yeah. Like once, once all of a sudden it became like, oh, I don't have to do this.

So we can split this up and divide it up or whatever. With the following record, there was a funny situation where I recorded the entire album, and I did it in a way that ended up being the wrong way, where we recorded it with a gentleman named Bradwood. This is a survived by. Bradwood, absolute legend, one of the best in the world, coolest guy. Did amazing, has done so many amazing records. Yeah, Sunny Day Records, Far, Me Without You, so much stuff. Liz Phara, Far Rook As Salt.

Smashing Pumpins. Yeah, it's insane. He's the best. So we're getting to know each other, and he's like, he's like, yo, is there anything about your, you know, doing vocals that you would ever want to try? And I was like, I feel like I just, when I hear a studio recording

and then I hear myself on tour or something like that, it feels like it's totally different things. And it's like, what do you think it is? I'm like, just handheld. So I like, so I record the entire record with an SM 58. And another mic strapped to the top. And it's through like this. Crazy.

No, no, no. It was through this weird head that he, I think if I'm, he'll probably, he might watch this and be like, you got this still wrong. But it was like through an amp that was used in his family's like funeral home. And that immediately to me was like, cool. Yeah, we're doing that. It's like that's so my shit. Let's go.

Wow. So then we record the record, mix the record. We get the, you know, I send it to Trey. and I'm listening to it going, I don't know if there's clarity in my vocals. Like, I'm someone you can like usually make out every word I'm saying. I don't know that I can feel that.

So I'm starting to get nervous, but no one's talking about it. I send it to Trey, and I'm like, Trey, I'm kind of concerned about the vocals. And his response was, oh, so we can talk about your vocals. Ah. So I had to go back and re-record the entire record

in probably like two days. Okay. Awesome. But I'm so happy that I did. Okay. Yeah. So, Part of you to C, it survived by How much does touring change for Tushay this time?

It becomes nonstop. Nonstop. Like those, you can see, like, when you look at the archive, like every year we're playing 200 shows, probably, 200 plus shows, maybe. We were the band that refused to have a day off. If there was a day off on the tour, we would post on Twitter saying, whose house can we play tonight? We would show up and play a house.

Like, we just did not know how to not play a show. It was like, it was simultaneously the most exciting thing and also that's gas in the tank. 100% of course. So that was always kind of the drive, you know, didn't want to be home, just wanted to keep going. And it's like, I know for me that the only reason I'm taking breaks is because my voice is fucked up. Yeah. You're talking about how you feel when your voice is fucked up. So respect.

In our defense too. Our sets were like 30 minutes long. Wow. In 25 minutes long. You know what I'm saying? This is a big one for some people. Yeah. First, tushé European tour.

Yeah. Walk me through it. What's your first experience like? Oh my God. It was brutal. Yeah, just winter, you know. Was it that one or were you there before? Yeah, it was that one.

That was that one. Dead horse was so cold. That was a tour where I could probably speak. It was probably the same to you because we were there at the exact same time where every show in, like, Germany, central, more central northern Europe, the Primard would be like, oh yeah, it's snowing, so wouldn't expect a lot of people to come. Meanwhile, this is a place that boasts about having, like,

robust public transit. Yeah. There's a way to get everywhere. And sure enough, it would snow and just... Nobody. It was a rough tour. Or there's a soccer game on. Yeah.

Not in the winter. And it was also... I've only been doing it. It was also, like, we were supposed to do it with the known band, and then all of a sudden it became like, oh, no, you're going to go with this band for. Germany who's also going to drive you. Lovely guys.

Great, great, great guys and everything. All respect to them, but it was one of those things where it was just like, everything kept changing very last minute. So, yeah, it was, it was tough. It was a tough one. Do you remember any distinct German compliments you got? Funny enough, I think I was so ready for it to happen, but also no one gave a shit about us yet.

So, like, there wasn't much to critique just yet. I do have my all-time favorite. favorite situation, which was we got to open for Rise Against in fucking stadiums, like arenas, right? Not stadiums, arenas. And that was like one of the situations we're like, we have to do this. Of course, right? So we're first of three in an arena, you know. And we played in, it was in Prague.

And we were opening with a song called Gravity Metaphorically, which ended up on the split seven inch with pianos, become the teeth. but it was before we had recorded it. Or like it hadn't come out yet. But at that point, it was our longest song. I think it had broke two minutes. Congrats. You know, like one of those. It might have almost hit three, maybe it hit three.

Marathon. Yeah. But it starts with like a, like it starts with like a floor tom punk beat. And we're like, rise against. Punk song. No one in this fucking arena knows who we are.

Anyway, let's just start with a new song, right? So we're starting that, the show, you know, whatever. So I walked to the merch table. That shit was so, it's like we're playing stadiums of like 12,000 people and we're selling like 100 euros in merch. Oh, my God. Yeah. And then we're going to playing a 100 cab venue and selling like $1,200.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny how that works out. But we, I'm at the merch table. This guy comes up. And he just, and he does one of these. He has like the looking at everything. He says, you played a new song tonight. And I said, yeah, yeah, we did, yeah.

And he goes, it was long. And I said, yeah, it's in fact our longest song though I think we've written at this point. And then he just keeps looking. He goes, wasn't good. Walked away. One good. So, not only did he not buy anything.

Not only does he extensively know your catalog? He's a fan. of the band and that was the one interaction with the singer of a band he likes he'll ever have yeah and alice just like to hope that he maybe bought that ticket for like you know a lot yeah right yeah right yeah right to see the first of three and just was so disappointed by that new song that he had to come tell me about it wasn't good wasn't food just wasn't good and just walked away brutal dude didn't buy something thanks any is survived by songs that you're particularly proud of I know Harbors.

Is that a set staple? Because it's a banger. We, from that record, we don't play a lot of that record. That's, that's for us. That's the one for us where we, we all have, we, it was a symptom of sort of the, this, this sophomore slump thing, even though it was our third record theoretically. but like it felt like really the follow-up record right um and i think i fucked up by not being vocally ready like i was still writing almost the entire thing in the studio out by the patio stressing out every day not feeling good about what i was doing and then the guys in my band

talk about it by saying that they were nervous themselves so they were overplaying so it's like i think all of us were just a bit in our head so i am always so so appreciative when I'll meet someone who says oh that's my record or something like that you know like when you hear though when you hear people be like fight or debate sure yeah yeah yeah stuff and I'm just like that's awesome I'm so happy to hear that because for us we're just like that's the one you made it through totally okay yeah and and and you know and I'm not saying this as like some sort of bragging right but it was our true amazement where it was our first time that like pitchfork covered us and Pitchfork gave it like an eight.

Wow. And we were just like, what? This one? Like we were like, we're about to lose all of our fans. Like that, at least that's how I felt. And so all of a sudden it did okay, like critically. And that was our first time really getting any sort of critical response like that. And then, yeah, just over time, you know, we make more records and slowly,

but surely we're playing less and less off of it. Yeah. Yeah. But to answer your question, And the last song on the record, the title track song is survived by, I think if I had to put together, like what I think are the five best Tushé songs, it would be in the top five. There you go.

All right. Here we go. Tushai Mori, stage four. Yeah. This beautiful expression of grief for your late mother. Thank you. And, you know, that's one thing that every human being will experience at some point. Totally.

And yet you're putting the most personal. thing you've probably ever experienced in your life into this sonic presentation for everyone to hear. And it becomes your biggest record. And the thing that people connect with more than anything, how does that feel to, I mean, that exists for your mom. Yeah. Who, as we've talked about before, is like such an important person in your life, such an important part of your story. Yeah. Let's talk about this record.

Sure. Yeah. It's interesting because we're about to start doing a lot of lead-up for, we're playing the album in full this year in multiple places all around the world. And we're talking about what to do to kind of promote it and things like that. And one of the things, one of the band members asked was like, you know, we'll maybe do a thing where we talk about each song like, you know, anecdotes and things like that. And I was like, I genuinely don't remember. I don't remember anything. I just remember just writing like I just remember the words coming and being very confident in the music that was being brought to me being very like yep like and just knowing there was like a comfort in these words that I was writing being like how well they fit to what I was given you know and that feeling very comforting that was also the record where like we learned so much from Survived by because we also went back to

Brad Wood for this. Where it was like, let's all, let's not record a song and let's all five of us are 100% sure on every single one of these decisions. Like, no one's compromising. Everybody loves every song. Better is better. Better is better. Yeah, and that's how we've continued to run things.

Very good. Yeah, it was one, I'm sure a friend of the room, I've told this story in one. for twice, but like Pat Kinlan, I remember playing the record for him before it came out. And his response was, so you're just trying to like alienate just your entire audience with this one? Which is a very Patrick Kinlan sort of way to do it. And he was just like, you're at an age where you start losing your parents. He was like, your fans are younger. Like, I don't know, like, I hope this for you, like I hope this. But he, but he sensed like, You went pretty hard on this one.

Yeah, big time. Kind of a thing. And that's a criticism that I've accepted and I've heard since the day the record came out of like, can't listen to it. And I say, totally get it. There are records that I can't listen to. I reference some of them in the song New Halloween. Like, I can't live without my mother's love from Sun Kill Moon or what Sarah said from Death Cafe Cutie. Or Sufion Stevens Carrey and Lowell to Mount Erie records are.

so heavy and so, so upsetting, because they deal with grief head on. I've talked to Pat Flynn about this. You know, Fiddlehead has written some pretty heavy and devastating records himself. But are these things that you can't listen to now, but used as medicinally at the time? Or it was just like, I was like, I know what that is. And like the songs that I referenced were songs that I liked at the time, but then, or, you know, that are just, but instantly, all of a sudden, lyrics mean different things to you and all of that sort of stuff. But what I found, which was the coolest thing to come of it at the time, was a lot of people who wrote off our band.

Older heads who were like, you mentioned this. We're like, yo, fucking, I never listened to your band. Band name's stupid. You know, or like, I never checked you guys out. I thought you guys were like fucking some lame shit or something like that, which I'd say for sure. All of a sudden we're like, yo, that record hit me in the way. away or like someone recommended me that record after I lost my so-and-so and I get it now kind of a thing

and it was interesting over the years all of a sudden people who I never ever would have you know thought I'd get some sort of nice sentiment from reached out to me or talk to me or something like that in some capacity about that which was never the goal for me it was just like look I didn't go to grief therapy I should still go to grief therapy It's just something I didn't do. And I just poured everything into that. Because it was, that was, some people say, like, how hard is that records right? It was the easiest record to write.

Because there was an endless supply of things to reference. It's like, I can talk about being with her in the hospital. I can talk about what it was like, you know, dealing with, like, having to clear out the house. I can talk, you know, there was endless things to be like, I can reference this or this one conversation I have. There was this, there was that. There's only one song in the record, and this is, you know, there's a friend of Los Angeles, but like, there's a song in the record called Posing Holy, which is half about my mom and then also half about Tim Butcher. Because he was someone in the LA community, and a lot of people knew him,

that had passed around that same time of recording the record. But, yeah, I mean, it was my first time really writing about just loss and grief in that regard in. general and I just really, really put it out there in a way. I had a few people be like, are you sure you want to do this? Like, are you sure you're going to be able to do this every night? Are you, you know, that kind of a thing? Which I didn't consider for me. I was just like, I just have to do this. And how is it, is it still just ultimate catharsis and the songs mean what they mean? Or are they just? You know, the, because that, you know, that comes up, you know, when the tour got announced, the amount of people were like, I can't believe Jerry.

me has to sing this entire record in full in all of these different cities and all of that. He's being forced. Yeah. And it's like, you know, we all know, like, when you're up there, it's autopilot. And that's self-preservation. Because I think if most people went up there and we're singing about what they wrote the song about, night after night, we wouldn't have a lot of us up there. You know, like.

It's interesting, too, despite Pat's sage-like forecasting, you know, I liken it's like a life raft or a lighthouse. house because there are people who are lost in the notion that need to connect with something like that and who need that and you know people who go through things at yes we all expect to go through what you went through not necessarily at the age that they go through so it doesn't matter age is kind of irrelevant I understand the point he was trying to be obviously but it's it's it's the amount of people when I became aware of that record and what it means to some people and and people close to me, I had a very new appreciation for it as well,

because how often do we really look into what the lyrics mean in this kind of music, or what the message is necessarily, like truly, is it a true story? As a full album, it almost never means one thing, you know? Yeah. So it's heavy. But so, I think the value that has been put onto it is immeasurable. I have a lot of what the, I didn't expect with the album.

Like I said, all I was just, I just needed to get the stuff out, you know. I was anxious as hell about PR for it, like having to do interviews about it all the time. Like I was, it was my first time being guarded, being like, I all due respect to, you know, handsome guy at blogspot.com, but like I can't. have these conversations and I had I mean I had circumstances where I would I remember we're playing a festival in Europe and if this person happens to be watching this I don't fault you but I got pulled in you know it was pouring rain at a festival and it was like hey you have to do this interview so I'm like okay go and you know close the van door just you know classic doing an interview in a van kind of situation and the guy just starts bawling at me about the record

and doesn't really even like it just kind of seemed like he just needed to talk to me and that was the part of that album that I did not expect and still don't have a good handle on of like hey man person anyone I'm also going through this like I don't have answers but at the same time I always I never fault somebody I've 1,000% understand what it means to like want to go up and tell somebody like what their record means to them

because i've been that person so many times darrell from glass jaw jep from thursday like all these people when i was a kid where i was just like yo this that and the other thing we're all where we are because we feel that way about something we're fans of we've had albums change our lives and if and the beauty of hardcore is that the the beauty is that the ceiling's very low if you try just hard enough you can play with your favorite band and is not even trying that hard And if you're not a dick at all, if you're not a dick for long enough, you're going to be their friend in some way. A hundred percent. Yeah.

Yeah. So I understand the amount of times that people want to come. But like, respectfully, like, I can't, I've never been able to look at my DMs. It's just, it's rough in there. And I, I, 1,000 percent feel guilt because I don't engage. But at the same time, it's just too much for me sometimes. For sure. It's your grief.

Yeah. Like the guys in my band have commented, and sometimes they'll get a, you know, like a back rub or something like that backstage unexpectedly because like they'll be out in the crowd after the show and people will be talking to them about, yo, guitar tone, yo. Yeah. What did you see today in Berlin?

You know, like where'd you go? What museums do you check out? And the second I walk out, that same person who's like, ah, blah, it turns to me and just goes, hey, so that record, like I lost my such and such. And I get it. I a thousand percent get it. But to get it as often as I had and kind of continue to,

I don't fault anyone and I get it and I respect it. But sometimes it's hard. It wipes me out. It can wipe me out. Definite silver lining, though, you connected. Yeah. A lot of people needed it. Greatest gift in the world.

Yeah, yeah, truly. Yeah. Also the title, stage four and it being your fourth record. It's like you and bolt three. have ever done. So good, great job, dude. We actually had a conference, both through our. You did?

You and Carl? Yeah, we talked. Yeah, we're like, You joined. Well, yeah, right. Sounds fucking good. Did you ever find the courage to listen to the last message that you talked about in the record?

So, if you get to the very end of the record, it plays. It's the voicemail. It's at the end of the record. Yeah. Which, which I'm so happy is there, because, the age of losing phones and losing that. I was like that that's that because it was a conversation. It was like, I was like, is this too much?

Like, is this too much to put on there? Yeah, of course. And the band members of course were like, are you sure that's a good idea? That's an extremely personal thing because it's a very nonsensical message. It's just about picking up a prescription or something like that. Right. But a part of me was like, it'll live on. It'll be like if I ever need to just hear her voice, which as time goes on, I mean,

she's been gone for 12 years. this year. So like, you know, as time goes on, you start to forget how they sound or their inflections and things like that. So like, I'm very happy that I have a recorded record, literally on a record of that, you know. What's the point of what we do, if not to immortalize, things like that? It's also just such a perfect epilogue to this whole story you just told, you know. It really. Ten years of stage four live at the Hollywood Palladium with Glassjaw and Sacia, baby. It's crazy that you turn that into like a nice occasion. Yeah.

And it's so funny. Incendiary's on it. And they're a band that since the Get, we've always tried to play shows with. They're not in the SEO, by the way. I didn't leave them out on purpose. Crush is on the show as well. Another great band. Grush is fucking insane.

Really good band. Yeah. So it was one of these things where it was like, fuck it can we what about this one like it's a weekender because they're like weekend warriors you know they're the weekend warriors and they've always been sweeping like it's not you just keep asking

just keep asking yeah yeah yeah and we wanted to have like kind of I think the that lineup in particular feels like a cool representation of what our band is because there's all the melody of Glassjaw and everything they're huge influence on me young and all

of that Sasha is a huge reason why we're even a band Help Fest 96. We just wanted to rip them. Or 2004. Helfast 2004. OzFest 96. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just, there's so many things that it's just, it's kind of a cool mix of so many different sounds that, yeah, it's going to be awesome.

Can't wait. May 14th? Something like that? May something 12th. Mid-May. Is that the biggest headlining show of C-Shoes? Yeah. Yeah.

It's scary. Yeah. It's scary. You're going hard. You got to be looking. You better come strong or not coming at all, right? That's the great. prophet James Ismine once said

You gotta have a riot though You know that right At the Palladium Just yeah For Black Flag You ain't shit if you ain't a riot at the Palladium Everybody knows So if you're watching this and you're going to the plating

You have to riot Hardlora is not liable for anyone The first ever podcast Oh yeah When does that start? You're the first one, congrats That's amazing Congratulations isn't that crazy

Thank you for trouble Yeah yeah yeah Yeah no you're both very welcome which you know what I'm going to take this opportunity to say I've said this to you both personally you guys do a great job

I think thank you like I remember texting you after going to the live thing where you interviewed the director of Green Room oh yeah and because so much of the beginning of the show there's a lot of fun

you guys are doing a lot of goofy things whatever yeah and and but also still doing interviews which was which you can you guys were feeling out what the show was gonna be yeah which is what the first year of a show should be right yeah you guys still have fun and everyone loves it every day I love it everyone loves it but watching you guys interview him I was like because this is someone that they don't know personally yeah those are those are almost easier yeah because we do the

same thing with baby no no no with um jackass guy what's his thing oh Lance Banks. That was awesome. Oh, yeah, yeah. With Anthony. Yeah. You know, that was also just very easy. It was like, hey, we know some of the stuff you've done. Let's just talk about that.

Yeah. As I'm sure you experience with your pot. With doing the pot. Yeah, for sure. But just before we get in it, I just want to say, you guys, it's really been awesome to watch. Thanks, my name. It brings us so many people joy every week, you know. That's all we want.

And you can actually sense that you guys like each other too. Oh, that's my guy right there. Which is also nice. It doesn't feel like you guys are in true. No, there's no malice. Yeah. There's no malice. 95% of the time.

Yeah. Well, there needs to be soft. If a mic goes out, if a mic goes out, it's never been my fault. Yeah, yeah. So keep up. So just note that. But the first ever podcast, when did that start? Okay, it started in, it started in 2020.

I was of the echelon of 40-year-old white guys, you said, I should start a podcast. But we had finished recording our record. lament and it was at the point where I was like, man, I just miss seeing my friends and, and, you know, not unique in this thought at all, but like, the, you know, the best, the best conversations are the ones you have with, with people that you've shared the road with, or, you know, or people that you admire that you know certain things about that you're like, oh, you know, all of that sort of stuff. The same thing that, you know, with you guys, the, what started this show.

So, like, and I've always just been, you know, I've always just been fascinated by the what led people to where they are type stuff. But, like, it's fun to have, having kind of like a questionnaire set up. When you sent us the questionnaire, we were like, this guy's genius. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, but, I mean, I had, you could, literally, you could not pay me to listen to my first 100 episodes. Like, just in the sense of, like, it was clunky. First 100 ever? Like, yeah.

It was like, you know, I was probably super nervous. Like, the show went through different, you know, different companies, editors, all sorts of stuff to where I am now, you know. So, like, it was a lot of growing pains. But I didn't start sending the questions until probably, like, maybe even 100 episodes in. Whoa. Because maybe it wasn't, I don't know. But, like, you would ask a question, then you would, you know, understandably get someone kind of stumped on that answer. Yeah, yeah.

And I'm like, you know what? if I could just circumvent that and just make someone feel more comfortable. They're ready. Also, seeing those questions, you just kind of makes you go, oh, it shows light. Light, yeah, yeah. Like, I'm not going to be asked something, you know, out of pocket. Absolutely. Like, it'll be easy.

Where did first ever come from? I think I just, I think just, I was like, if I'm asking first questions, it's like, it just seems like a fun, like, first. What was your first ever show? Yeah, because it's also a fun, ironic thing of like there's a billion podcasts. 100% just like the nerve of this guy to say like this is the first ever podcast so what are you let's do the gimmick what are some of your first ever's what's your first spin kick oh my god uh was your hair straightened oh yeah oh for sure yeah it's right there first you were like uh this is pretty hard because they're because you have to have the moment because you know what a show is now And like what is...

And your heart is pounding. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, what is at stake? Yeah. And where were you? It's looking foolish and getting... 100%. Yeah.

Probably the whiskey go-go. Okay. Wow. Probably one of these M productions deals. Oh, God. M productions, if you're watching, you get yourself. Horrible, it's not responsible.

Running away. Anyway. It, honestly, it might have been the hate verge show. Oh, God. Yeah. No shit. Stricken opened. That is one of my favorite documented things.

Sold 150 tickets to play back show. Oh, Thank you. Thank you for your service. That's terrible. You kept M Productions in business for years with those 150 things. Yeah, but we got this video on it. Do you know how many times we've talked about this math?

Okay, there was three locals before First Blood and Curl Up and Die, who I think were the openers on that? like the actual bands that played the show, three openers, three local openers, we had to sell 150, bam before us had to sell 100, bam before that had to sell 50. Who's left to actually buy tickets to see converge?

What's the cap there? 500. 500, yeah. That's like basically every second. We were, I worked at the record store at the time, so I just said, I got converge tickets. I didn't say, come see my band. I said, I got tickets to see conversion to whiskey,

and I sold them within a week. Genius. So for us, it was. no stress. 150 tickets. Yeah. Didn't meet them, but Brian Grover had it was playing a Flying V bass

and Nate Newton walked in the room and goes, Flying V! That was our only interaction. That's so, Nate. That's so nice. For those of you who don't know, there's a video out there. Look it up right now. It's Hate Verge. It's Josta with Converge playing Haypreet songs.

And within the first 10 seconds, Bannon Dives, and EZAC is singing backup vocals on before to sign. It's crazy. It's one of the greatest things ever. Off the cuff, right? It was so violent. It was like the most violent show, but

Converge Open with Downpour. Whoa. Which I hadn't seen them play before, because Unloved and Weed It Out, I think had just come out, like the LP version or whatever. And I was just like so fired up from getting

to play that show that I was just like Spinjid. What a, that's a historic one. What a fucking answer, dude. You want to know something? cool about that before we move on. Joss is singing when Ben starts counting, so he misses

the what makes you think? So it's let's do-dun-d-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da- makes you think. He's talking. So he's like, let's fuck it up, whiskey, makes you think everything. He's so good. Because his sense is so good. He's so good that he doesn't miss

a fucking V. And he's going to wear the first ever 100 demon shirt. Oh, I have that shirt. The brass knuckles. No, that's not the first one. One of the first ever. First one has this weird tiki thing. I haven't.

I got it for Naper's birthday. First ever, personal artistic achievement where you felt like you'd accomplish something. Opposite of the spin kick. So when I felt like something was like, you're like, I fucking killed that and I'm proud. Yeah. Opposite of the spin.

Whereas mine would be the spin kick. Yeah, right. Mine would be like, I think getting good at the spin kick. Art is the opposite. There's no art. 100%. Oh my God. If I was

the first song on parting the sea, Tilda, Tilda, however you want to say. Yeah. I don't know. Right under the escape button. So here's some... Squiggle.

Some background for people. Why it's called that. A couple of reasons. Tilda's right. So, you know, when you're writing a song and they all have fake names for the long of time, like, oh, fast.

song, the song, sounds like this song. There's a sepeltre on every harm's worth. The opening note is just guitar pinging out notes. So it always like, you know, play the fucking song. Right? And then the opening lyric is I'm parting the scene between brightness and me,

till day, tilda, tildo, is Latin for title. It all. That's pretty good. Water, sea. You should. You should write this stuff. Down, this is pretty, good, wow.

But that song, still to this day, when we play it, I'm just like, this is who we are. Like, this song is, it's like a minute 10, but it does all of the things that our band continues to do. It has all of the parts. It feels so good still to this day to sing. It's got a big sing-along part at the end that like still to this day, it feels so fucking good, no matter what room we're in where I'm just like, I think we, that felt like, it also felt like we weren't trying to mimic anybody. Yeah, you'd arrived. We'd arrived to figuring out kind of who we were.

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, perfect. Lament. You mentioned previously that this record should feel like relief compared to the rest of your geography. Is that the goal when writing it? This record for me was moving on from stage four, right? Where I was like, this song is, or this record is about, like,

my life posts that record, what that record, you know, got off of me. sort of thing, but then also like the stresses and anxieties that came from it, as it described earlier. Like, so it was me sort of battling with all of that. But there was like the catharsis that I had reached with it.

I found some like actual like happiness, you know, for the first time. And that's what some of the songs, like reminders is one of those songs. It's like, it's definitely our most upbeat song too. You know, I started to have those moments. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah.

That's good shit. And got to do it with Ross Robinson. Yeah. Wow. What the hell? And the last one was two. I mean, for me, that was such a just like a full, like, as described, like finding corn. Yeah.

And then like, and, and, fuck. It's just such an unexpected thing, I'm sure, for any touche fan to hear from you. Yeah. Dude, corn. From corn? Yeah. Like, it being a fan. Oh, my God.

Well, see. Like to this day, you're like, we got to work with the corn guy. So I was. Right neck and neck with him for so many records. Because granted, there's things that certainly he did that I was maybe not as into, but like corn, sepuletura, slip knot, glass straw, at the drive-in, blood brothers, the cure. Like, I'm right there being like, I like that now too. Or I like that, you know, whatever.

So he had influenced through like multiple parts of my life. So when I got to know him a bit and have some real heavy conversations or real conversations with him about even just like what he meant to music and means to music and all that, I had the realization that what drew me to corn was the vulnerability. Oh, yeah. And that, I think, informed everything in my life going forward. That makes total sense. I mean, it's very Jonathan Davis cathartic. Crying on many of those tracks. Yeah. And that's, I think, what it was.

And then finding the vulnerability in hardcore was, like, instantaneous because it was like... Big time. It's like, respectfully to a lot of metal, and I'm not here to speak on the entire genre. Not as much vulnerability in the show. No, absolutely. So I think I just felt that pretty quickly.

And then so getting the opportunity to work with Ross was the scariest. That then became the scariest moment. my life where it was like, because I knew all the lore about him. He has decades of lore, and a lot of it is terrifying. And our manager at the time was managing at the drive-in when they did that record with him. So he came to me and was like, because we're trying to figure out who we're going to do the next record with. Our band works in twos. We do two records on Death Wish, two records on Epitaph, so on. Yeah. Two records with Bradwood, two records with Ross. Like,

we just historically like to do things and twos, you do the thing, it's, you learn and then you perfect it. And then you work out the quirks with the thing. Then you perfect it. Do the next thing. So,

we were trying to figure out who to do the record with and manager at the time was like, I have a suggestion and I fucking knew what he was going to say. And he was like, I don't know how you, what you think about this? And he was like,

what do you think about Ross Robinson? and I was like, I was so terrified you were going to say that, but I was like, I don't think that there's someone who will understand our band more than that guy. And how did that work out? Did that end up being the case? I would, right now, if someone walked in was like, I am going to shoot Ross Robinson,

unless I shoot you first, I would take the bullet. Like, he is, he is, I've learned so much from that man, and he is the biggest, uh, no, when you, you can work a 12-hour day with that guy, and he has not, he didn't look at his phone once. He is on it. If you have a question about something,

like you're like maybe a little unsure about something, he will not only listen to you thoroughly, but present you with five roads to take. Okay. Like he is operating on such a high level of caring that you're just like, I'm in such good hands right now. But, I mean, we did a try out with him because we were very nervous,

and it did not go, Well, he and I butted heads very, very, very hard. And I know we're going along. Is this annoying if I tell the whole story? No, I want it. This is the lore. This is it. We do, brother.

So we go in, you know, and I know bands that have worked with him. Like, I've, I love to talk about people's experiences working with this guy because they're, they're all crazy, right? And I've had certain bands be like, oh, yeah, like, you. for instance, you have to, if you're the singer, you've got to read those lyrics out loud in a room

with everybody, go line by line, explain what every single line is about. He will, like, so to track drums, everybody's playing, everybody,

I'm singing, every take to get the drums. Bob rock, dude. And, but before we track, it's, it's get in this room, what are these lyrics about?

Right? And I kind of knew, I had heard this was a thing, so I was, like, prepared for that. But you're going line by line and he'll be like, okay, stop. And then he'll look at another band member and be like, what does that mean to you? Because he wants to bring everybody to be on the exact same page so everybody knows what's at stake.

Okay. Which is we come from hardcore, right? Borderline impossible. And we're also in bands where we don't, we just, we're like, that's your department. Yeah, 100% of course. Like, I don't, like, I trust you, whatever you're doing. You know, it doesn't, I don't think twice about it. That's how our band had always been.

You know, I have all the faith in these guys. They have all the faith in me, and that's just how it's always been. So to have them all of a sudden now being like, okay, we're going to talk all of this stuff out, you know? Did you do the same thing with guitar riffs? You know what I mean? Oh, sure. I mean, when it came to that stuff, it was more so like, are you playing to play perfect or are you in it kind of a thing? I see.

But you wouldn't look at you and be like, how do you feel about Gmail? No, no, no, no, no, he wouldn't be, he wouldn't do that stuff, but like, he would, there, I mean, there were times where he would be mixing the record and just all of a sudden call one of our band members in the middle of the night and be like, you gotta come retract this. Wow. Whoa. Yeah, you're just like, you're just like, you're just not. And then if any of us heard it, we'd be like, sounds the same. Sounds the same. But like, he's hearing, so even when I'm tracking those scratch vocals, they're all over the record. Those are, like, he, you, you, you Just takes whatever he is. When he's doing, like, he has everything, you know, whatever. So anyway, we get in the room. I know what to expect, and I say, hey, listen, I know we just met today. But just to give you some background, our entire last album is about my mom pass. And this album is not that.

This is me moving on from that, what I've learned, et cetera. I explain the whole thing. He goes, cool. I'm like, that's not what this is. is this um so we we uh we record the song or we you know whatever do everything and and comes time to do vocals and i'd been warned stands in the vocal booth with you the whole time oh my god and and goes line by line and wants to talk everything out that whole thing right so i'm like kind of mentally prepared for that right so you get in the room and and first thing out of his mouth is so where's your mom right now oh and i said

nope and he was and that's kind of where it started yeah we probably stood in that booth for two hours kind of arguing yeah you've known me a long time yeah I am not a confrontation no person in any capacity I have a really hard time with confrontation so like I was it was really hard for me to be like you know and he was pulling we just met that day yeah so like he's pulling out all the tricks he's being like do you want to talk to shit to me, cuss me out, say anything you want, it doesn't matter to me. Like, I just want you to, you know, like, say what, and I, like, put my hand on a shoulder. I'm like, Ross, I respect you. I respect what you're trying to do. But for me to force myself to be into that headspace is insincere

to what this song is. Because that is actually the incorrect mindset. You're pulling from the lowest-hanging fruit to make me upset. So I then all of a sudden, he's like, all right, let's do a track. So I do a track. I start recording, and he makes you do the entire song. So as I'm in the middle of it, he just grabs him by my waist and starts swinging me around. And he's moving. He's moving. using his mind, he's all excited. And he's just like, and I'm like, this gets fucking insane. Like, what that, you know, so we get through the song, I leave the studio, you know, a week later, we get a mix, and it's incredible. You know, I'm just like, fuck, one of those things, right? So our manager even called me the next day is like, how do you feel? I'm like, because he was there.

Oh, okay. Because there's an engineer who's having to listen the entire time to our conversation waiting for Ross to say roll tape. Oh, my God. So he's in there, our base players in there, managers in there. Everyone's just like listening to this happen. And Blaze was like, how do you, where manager was like, how did he did it at the time? He was like, how did you think that went?

And I was like, you were there? Like, what do you think? And he's like, I don't know if he's had anyone talk to him like an adult. Wow. In that regard, you know, like to really. Rationalize like, here's why you're wrong. Yeah, here's why I can't.

Yeah. I don't want to do this. So fast forward a little while. We are still writing the record, right, but we haven't fully committed to what we're doing yet. And we play in San Diego, Justin Pearson of The Locust, and a million other amazing bands, comes to the show to say hi. He plays in the band Dead Cross, which records with Ross Robinson. And he was like, yo, I'm in the studio with Ross right now. He fucking loves you.

And I say, what? and he goes why are you surprised by that? And I'm like, and I told him the story and he goes, are you kidding me? That is the most Roth's shit of all time. Like you showed him how much you cared

about what you were doing and like how much emphasis you were putting on like all of the aspects of what your band is about. Like that's that he loved, he's like, come to the studio. He was dying for somebody to fight back.

He was like, come to the studio this week and just say hi. So I stopped by. He greeted me super warmly. Went back. So we're like, let's fucking do it. Let's do the album with us. So we went into the studio and never stood in the vocal booth with me again.

Wow. Just believed it. Just believed in it. And we would still talk about the songs. Yeah, sure. Totally. We would get into all of that. But we would talk in the mixing room and just have a conversation.

And in the middle of it, he would just be like, you good? I'm good. Let's go. Get up there. Wow. So it was surreal. And just for me also personally, there was a really awesome moment where he was pulling out this microphone, this vocal mic,

hangs it up and I'm looking at it and I'm like damn that thing is a fucking tank that thing is crazy looking I'm like how long have you had this thing he's like every one of my records has been recorded with that microphone and I'm like that's crazy what's the backstory where did it come from he was originally owned by Nick Cave

I'm like no way that's crazy and he goes yeah it was I mean tons of records have been recorded on that I mean Leonard Cohen recorded the future on that microphone he doesn't know me at all when he says that all my band members just like turn and I'm like I'm like, how did you get it?

He goes, it was owned by Indigo Ranch where I used to record out of the studio closed. I got the cure record at the time. The label said, what do you need to record that cure record? He said, I needed to buy me that microphone. So that's how he owns it.

Wow. It's fucking insane. He had to, I think he had to buy a multi-thousand-dollar microphone to break, to get pieces out of it to repair that microphone, which is insane. Yeah. And you did it, dude.

That's probably the microphone that blind was recording on. It is. You did it. Yeah. It's like, it's, again, bar low,

here we are. Did you hit any... Rateur? And then it just hit it. Obviously. Once I got comfortable with him, there was times where I was just, like, brought up,

like, I just thought of something, you know, that I've always wanted to ask about to be like, tell me about, you know, recording this one specific thing, you know,

like, what was it like recording Iggy Pop's part on that, the drive-in record? And he was just like, came in here one day. They both had handheld mics and just like ran around the room singing together. Or recording Rick Hapo with Glassjaw. Same sort of a deal.

Yeah, right. Yeah. Wow. Fuck yeah, dude. And then you had to release that record in 2020. After all that. After all of that. That's awesome.

We, did you either read to put out a record in 2020? I waited. They waited. We wrote. So we did like opposite paths, got to the same spot, though. It was one of those things where we had the option to hold it, but we looked at the open playing field. And we said, you know what? A lot of people are not getting new music right now.

Maybe this will do. Because our record was also supposed to come out the week before or after every time I die. And they held their record for almost two years. So we're like, okay, now we don't have everything. every time I die is competition. We don't have, you know, like, let's fucking do it. And then, you know, sales-wise, all of that did better than any of our records. Like, it's to this day still, like, that was our best set of record.

But because of, because everybody was at home and needed that dopamine burst of fucking buying something on right. And those Biden books, you know? Oh, my God. The Biden, yeah. Hmm, interesting. Those were good, man. Very interesting. Wow.

Although I guess it wasn't Biden at the time. But anyway. Yeah. Do you think, well, I guess you kind of answered my question. It's just like, is that, there was stuff that came out over those two years, let's say, of everything being shut down and tours not really happening. Like, do you think that was a net loss for those bands? My heart... I think in touring, maybe, but overall.

My heart broke for the bands that were just starting to get steam in 2020. You know, we know there was a few of them, and then there was, you know, then some bands had huge success because of a band like Golt. You know what I'm saying? The whole Bay Area just exploded. Completely. I remember what was your guys' first show back? We did, so we had a Gonset record release, like, pop-up. It wasn't a show.

It was, like, come by the record and we're just here. Yeah. And that was the first, like, thing that happened here that I remember. And it was cool. It was at midnight hour when it was in a tiny store. It was, like, mask required, and we put a little, like, Hanja mask on the flyer which was cool

show fuck I don't know we did a 10 year of isolation okay in early like early 2021 did either of you have concerns on whether you would still like doing this no no my god

it was like I did really oh really I'm coming from the guy who doesn't who could be on tour for a year I think I think there was just so much pressure and stress and anxiety put on to like what the future of touring could even be and already seen the writing on the walls of the state of what the industry was going to now was going to become and has become i think all of those things were i saw it and i was like it's about to get real rough out there insofar as is what do you mean okay we saw a lot of venues close yeah horrible and we're seeing venues continue to close we just lost chain reaction uh bottom of the hill is closing Like, it's heartbreaking to see happen, right?

But I do also remember thinking a lot of these venues are getting a lot of public support, which is amazing. But I also know what that means. That means there are now going to be a lot more fees that are going to take more away from already bands that are making nothing, you know? And I get why they're there. But, for instance, I think our first tour back, one of the venues had, like, all of a sudden $1,000 cleaning fee. there was no soap in the bathroom. Oh my God. So you're like...

What am I paying for? So things like that, you know, I'm not saying it's every venue. No, no, I got you. I'm not, you know, I'm thankful any venues exist, but it was the start of being like, oh, like less. It's going to be even harder to make ends up now. Wow. Like because...

In and out, stop doing refills. So literally, I was just going to say, because Chipoli stopped doing refills. I was like, well, that's the future. America's toast. It's over. It's over. What's the difference between us and dream?

Ice, I guess. Yeah. Not that kind of ice, though. Like frozen water. But also ice. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't, I was dying to get back on the road. I was dying to see my friends.

Yeah. So one of the earliest things I got to do was Soundup Fury, 2020. Oh, yeah. Two. That's true. You know what I mean? That was like... Because of our little show.

Because of our little show. And Furnace Fest. So like doing, getting to do hard lore stuff? Yeah. And that was... Oh, the gnarly one, the huge first one back? Like, knock loose and stuff? Had to have been the first one.

That would have been 2021. Then maybe it was... Maybe we played 2022. 2022. Okay, we were there for that. Thrice played in the big stage. Macedon played. I remember our stage, I was just like,

this is so my shit right now because it was like Jeremy Enoch from Sunny Day played before us and Mineral played after us. Was it the lake one? Or did you play the shed? We didn't play like the big inside room. We played the, we played off to the side. The lake one then.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or drug church played the lake one. Probably, yeah. But I just remember like going up and being kind of anxious being like, I hope this, like, also my voice being like, does my voice still do this live? Like it's been off for this long, you know? and as soon as we went into it I was like I love the shit

riding the bike it is it is like riding the bike it's who we are it's it's I will say though the grasses is often greener and there are one of the nice things nice things about being shut in

was that I had no FOMO and FOMO is one of my biggest sources of anxiety not possible to miss out when there's nothing nothing going on I missed that sense of hey, which is, I realized something over this winter. We had a crazy blizzard a couple weeks ago in Chicago.

Yeah. Everyone's locked in. You love it. Everyone shut down. And it gave me a little, like, I can just stay in and play a video game and cook. I'm not missing anything. Yeah. So I do miss a sense of that, but obviously I much prefer being able to do it. What was the episode you guys did where, I think it was a seasonal episode and you chose like Godflesh? And you were like, because of... Oh, the summer albums.

The summer albums. And you chose Godflex. And you were like... The summer sucks. Yeah, the industrial, urban hellscape that is a humid city site. It was fucking coastal elites being like, oh man, the beach boys. Yeah, come on, man. That sounds.

Versus street cleaning? The sounds of summer on horrible. Christ's fate rising comes on and I'm like... Pretty hot. Pretty hot song. Spiral in a straight line. Yeah. Possibly your biggest

Sonic departure yet. I think it's a leap. Okay. Non-derogatory. No, I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you're singing melodically way more than ever.

Is that a Ross? I think as time has gone on, I'll go into records now being like, I'm not singing on this record. I'm not, like, I'm over it, I'm not doing it. And then as soon as we write a song, I'm just yelling in melody.

You know what I'm saying? We're just like, that's mostly what I'm doing. Sure. But there's a few moments, yes. Like there's a song that has, like, Lou Barlow, which is insane. Insane. Wow. On it.

That whole story is the coolest, coolest story in the world. Why don't you tell me? Lou Barlow from Dinosaur Jr. Yeah, yeah, Lou Barlow, Dinosaur Jr., Sevedo, Full Compulsion. So, yeah, it's a song called Subversion. And I was writing it. We were on tour in Australia at the time. And I had to finish like three more songs,

and I was going crazy, not, I really, really take a long time with lyrics I always have, but I really, really, really take a long time. I'll write, all write the song four times and throw it away. And just be like, no, starting over, don't like it today. I heard. So I was having a really hard time with that. And I'm not afraid of flying by any means, have to do it enough.

But if I'm conscious of this, I will do it, where if like when we're landing, I'll be like, I'm going to throw on one of my favorite songs in the world, just because in cases go sideways. I'm listening to my favorite song. So one of my favorite songs in the world is a Sepato song called Brand New Love. And it's incredible. It was introduced to me through a really funny way by the cover first

by the new metal adjacent band, Deadsy. They randomly covered brand new love. You're so interesting guy. Yeah. Yeah. Well, do you want it else that else is interesting? That I think the singer of Underdog does backup football. No way.

Richie? Why? I got to interview the singer of Deadsy on the show, Elijah Blue, Cher's son. And when I realized that, I was like, were you into hardcore kind of a thing? And he was, and he talked about how he had a stint where he got in, I think he got into, like, Harry Krishna and was into, was friends with John Joseph and all those guys in New York. But like post, I think he said post-ded-D-D-D-D-D-D. ask for you to do it or was it?

Yeah, I think they was just like, yo, you should do this. I know, it's insane. It's like, he's like deep in there. He's like, it's like, it's like, I just when I saw that credit, I was like, what the fuck? Oh, that's crazy.

Yeah. So anyway, that's how I found brand new love. Okay. And it's always been the song that I've been obsessed with in the later in life I realize it's a cover. Tons of people have covered it. So I'm on the flight listening to it.

And I was at a point in my life where I had gone through a breakup and I'm listening to the song and loving the song, and like, the song is about sort of finding new love unexpectedly, and the beauty that can come from that, and it's also sort of maybe the drama that can come from that. And that's how I've always interpreted the song, at least. I'm not speaking for Lou Barlow. But I found myself really, like, wonder why I chose that song in this moment, kind of a thing. Right. And so now I'm walking around the streets listening to subversion being like,

what the fuck do I do over the whole end of this song? Like, I'm having such a hard time. And it clicks where I'm like, you can weirdly sing the chorus of brand new love over this outro. They sound nothing alike, like nothing alike. But it weirdly fits. So I bring it to my band and I say, guys, I don't know shit about music. Is this the wrong key?

Is this the wrong whatever? Like, I had this idea. What are you guys thinking? I was almost kind of like, ask them, I'm like, how dumb am I going to look right now? Does this even work? And Clayton and Nick listen to it and they go, that works completely.

That absolutely is the same key. It absolutely work. And I was like, interesting. So now I'm like, we're going in to do the record and all of that. And I'm like, I'm like, oh, this is an opportunity to get like one of our cool special guests on our record. You know, like we've always prided ourselves on kind of bringing in people that maybe is unexpected. Julian Baker's been on goddamn three records in a row. This one, too.

Three in a row. She's also, she's the seventh member of the band. Legend. So I was like thinking about all these different people I could ask. You know, and I'm like, oh, that can be cool, that can be cool, that can be cool. Then I was just like, what if I just literally asked Lou Barlow? Like, how brazen of a thing to be like, what's the worst he could say? What's the worst he could say?

Yeah. Yeah. So, do you guys know Yasi Salick, Brandon Van Spleen? Oh. So Yossi had around that time interviewed him. So I hit up a Yassi, and I'm like, yo, is he cool? Is he nice? And she's like, he's perfectly sweet.

I'm like, okay. All right. So got his email. wrote him an email, I wrote them, I wrote them about the context of the song, what the song meant to me in my life, what I went through when I was writing the song, sent him the lyrics, and I sent him a demo of how it would work. He responds, sounds fun. It's like, what do you mean?

So, but just like in retrospect, it's insane to just be like, it is brazen to be like, hey, would you sing your song on my song? Yeah. You know, it's like, it's a huge ask. Like, I am not, I am not. Can I have this? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, also it's like, can we, also, is it okay if we use your song?

Like, you're gonna get a hell of a piece off of this, like respect. But, and the fact that he was like, yeah, I'm down. And then, of course, like, it took kind of a minute for it to get the tracks, but, you know, we've had guests on our, when you all of a sudden get the email with the vocal tracks in there and you're just like, No way. You did. So going into the studio and just putting it on and then like hearing it like with the,

because at first when you just get the stems, you're like, it's just the, I need to hear it in the context. Put the sauce on it. So when you hear it in full, I mean, hearing his voice singing that song that has meant so much to me in my life, like, in our song, I was like, this is, that's like top coolest things that's ever happened in our band, for sure. That's awesome. Galaxy brain. Yeah, man. It's, it was, it was so cool.

It was so cool. Is there anything you think you haven't achieved artistically yet that you'd like to? Do you have a big goal that you haven't gotten to reach yet? I would really like to put out like a published poetry book. I've done a, I've released, I've self-released a lot of stuff over the years. I haven't done one in a minute. It's been this sort of thing that's been nagging at me kind of a thing to be like, yo, like put effort into this and do it.

And that's not to say I'm deserving of it because I know that there is a pipeline of like singer guy to poetry to, you know, I'm not, it's not lost on me. I do really like writing when I get in the headspace to do it because it's it's nice to know I can get this off my I don't have to be as crazy about it as I am lyrics because it's like I don't have to perform this rest of my life. It can just be a nice expression to get out that I feel good about. I'll still work it to death but it's just it's like another form of expression that I really found a lot of joy in throughout my life. So at some point in my life I would really that would feel really good to get to do it. Great answer. Yeah. Let's talk about something very important. Is it bad that I've been just looking at you guys side? No, not at all. If you have something you need to address them, you just take your camera.

No, it's totally fun. Playing music around the world, there's so few things that bring us comfort. So few. It's a hard world out there. It's a hungry world. It's a very hungry world. So the end of the day, a guy's got to eat. Guys got to eat.

What are you into? What do I like? Yeah. We don't really talk food much. in our lives. No, we've gone to Winksoft before and you got barbecue. You got only barbecue. And I remember being like, I know, I just take... It's a choice.

I haven't forgotten. It's a choice. I remember my friend's orders and you got all barbecue. I remember being, okay, I don't do that. I don't do that now. Now I'm a mostly just original hot. Love the original hot. Yeah, all flats. That's, that's him. Did I put you on? You might have. I must have.

You don't get enough meat. I must say. Yeah, you don't get enough meat on the on the drum. On the drum? On the drum. The flat is more tender, stark, or excuses. You don't get enough meat on the bone. That's my stance. I'm a boneless guy. What can I say?

Those are chicken nuggets. That's fine. The new crispy tender? Also delicious. Yeah, it is fantastic. Okay, so your question is what kind of... Yeah, well, no, what's number, like, so, too-shaimori. Yeah. You're on the road.

Is on the road. Oh, yeah. You unanimously are like, we got, okay, here's the spot. We got to eat. Well, okay, so that, and I'm not dodging the question, because I'm going to, we're, we're Let's go you and let's go too. Because there's always compromise on them. You know, and it's usually...

The compromise is usually Chipotle. But so like for the band, if it's like, is there anyone's like, oh, fuck, they have that here? Let's go there. It's going to be Chipotle. That's going to be probably me wanting to eat something very specific. Like, forgive me if I'm getting the name wrong because I think I'm getting it right, though. But is it Smithfields that's in like, it's in like North Carolina, South Carolina? I don't know Smithfields.

I think it's, fuck, I hope I'm not getting it. It's something Smith, something, it's something like that. But it's barbecue and fried chicken. Oh. Fried chicken is fucking unreal. Okay. It's unreal. Like, they basically give you two gigantic patties on the smallest piece of bread.

So you're just like, this, this is a mess. Okay, good. It's perfect. Slat of that thing in hot sauce. I'm pretty sure Smithfield. Okay. Unbelievable. Okay.

But the band would be Chipotle. But yeah. They also, I'm not a Taco Bell guy. I've never been a Taco Bell guy. They love Taco Bell. Often they'll hit Taco Bell. I'll take a walk, probably find Wendy's or something. Yeah. Interesting.

Dude, people need to put respect on Dave's double, you know? I do a Wendy's spicy chicken. Fucking Elite is. I mean, it's fine. I like Wendy. Yeah. Wendy, she's... My grandfather was her personal trainer at one point. She's never frozen.

She's always there. I don't... I really only do McDonald's in Europe. Yeah. It's just a life line. Yeah, it's a lifeline. Same with Burger King. It's a lifeline.

Like, yeah. Literally. Hey, the long chicken? Yeah. The long chicken? Yeah,

love a long chicken. Yeah. But like in the States, like I'm hidden, I'm hidden probably like a Wendy's or something like that, yeah. Williams rocks. All right.

Here's a big one. Okay. You know, it's nighttime. It's dark out there. You're going to have to walk back to your car. It's scary. Mountains. You ever see a ghost in any circumstance like that?

No. Do you believe? Do you believe in the supernatural? before I answer this, is this, does this, do we, do we get into afterlife question about this? No, you can. You can if you want. Okay. Because I have a, I like to hope goes surreal. Yeah, yeah, I like to, yeah, I like to, yeah, I like to hope go surreal. I like the concept of it. I don't love the concept of being haunted by something. Sure. My mom had some pretty crazy stories about, uh, about scary stuff that happened to her and her sister growing up because they worked out of a

funeral home in Nebraska. And her stories were very, very, very, very, very, believable. It's where I was like, yeah. It's settled then. Yeah. So, she wouldn't lie to me. She wouldn't? Yeah, there you go. So there's that. Are you calling him the Darren's mom a liar? I would never. I would never.

I do think that a lot of it is probably in your mind and in your... Step up really quick right in front of his face, though. Yeah. Thank you. But also, you know what? If you need to make yourself believe because of one thing or another, it's going to. That's what cavemen did when there was thunder. They invented gods. It's nonsense. I'm on.

I've seen what I've seen. And so has Jeremy's mom. Yo. Marissa from Westwater, that photo? Did you guys talk about that photo? She, her story was very intense. When she sent me that photo, I'm still shook by that photo. It's saved in my phone.

I don't like it. It freaks me to fuck out. Get it off your phone. Believer. Yeah. I'm all in. Well, by aliens? I mean, 100%.

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's proven at this point. Yeah, I mean, 100%. Yeah, it's proven at this point. We're one tragedy away from them being like, we need, okay, just drop it. We got to distract them. Yeah. Have you ever experienced anything or seen anything?

No. Explainable? No, no, no. Nothing like that, but... 200 shows a year and never seen anything. That's crazy, huh? Or aliens either, though. Yeah.

I know. Okay. I mean, they're both real. And lastly, our final question. Yeah. And you can take as much time as you need. Jeremy Bollms,

top four, hardcore records of all time. Four. I'm going to try not to think too much about this. Yeah, you don't need to. You shouldn't have to. You shouldn't have to, right.

Jane Doe. Yeah, I knew it was coming. Cursed two. In This Defiance. Fuck yeah, dude. VOD self-titled. Great answers. In This Defiance

is actually a crazy record. Like front to back, every song has a riff, at least one riff where it's just like, what? So let me put it. There's a gentleman who used to fill in when Nick can tour with us in our band. His name is Eric Goodman, legendary guy, right? Would often get pretty drunk and be the funniest man on earth, right? One time, sitting shotgun, I'm driving, blasting in this defiance on an overnight drive because fuck these guys trying to sleep.

I've just, I got to stay up, man. I'm playing the hits. going from this right into fucking fixation on a co-worker. I'm, we're off. Maybe we're going. We're going. And I don't know where Eric, like we're listening to like into half the, probably during Blister or something like that.

He just turns around and he just goes, yo man, even if you don't like this shit, you like this shit. It's so real. It's so accurate. It's perfect hardcore music. Yes. It's a perfect blend of truly two eras. And there was a day where we discovered that blistered,

goes pit to pit to pit to pit. Oh, yeah. No, I think, didn't we just say it was Mosh 6? Dund-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-Fi-T-D-F? Four. Half-down. I think it's four. It's four.

Mosh four. Mosh four is hard to achieve. We all know this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that force of change? That is blister. It's the end of blister. Force of change.

However. Yeah. Hard. Unbelievable. Yeah. Where do you go with Converge, if not Jane Doe? What's the, your next favorite? That's a great question.

Because I think all of us know Jane Doe is the record, impactfully, musically. You know what I mean? It is such its own thing. Yeah. So then I like to know what your next one is. Yeah. So because of when I got into them through petitioning. So I go Jane petitioning.

Wow. I have a buried by breathing tattoo. like such an, like no one's referencing buried with breathing. You know, that's like, that's a Dahlbeck song, for sure. You know, like it sounds like it's a Bain song. Yeah. It sounds like a Bain song. Yeah. But, yeah, so probably

if I was to do the order. Yeah. Sure, sure, sure. Jane, petitioning, no heroes. Yeah, that's my... That's yours, right? Ax to Fall. Wow. When Forever Comes crashing. You fail me. Wow. I love you fail me. I expected you to be That's my number one.

I love you fail me. This is me just off the cuff right now. Of course. If I probably really thought about it, you fail me might have moved. Actually, I'm swat. Okay. Jane petitioning.

Jane petitioning. No heroes. No heroes. You fail me. X to fall. When forever comes crashing. All we love, we leave behind. and probably just

everything in order since then. That makes sense. That's probably where I'm going. Oh, heroes. Goated. What a band. What a band. Harms was your story with them?

Yes, a couple times. When was the first time? What album? The second Death Wish record, Rust. But we did, in 2015, we did Europe with them our first time on a bus.

So 15, what record is that for them? Is that that? That was, That was moons. Post, All We Love We Leave Behind. That was the moons, yeah. Because we did the first All We Love We Leave Behind in Europe with them. Oh, ours was definitely a B market, so that makes sense.

Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Were you on, did you ride a, were you on a bus? We're on a bus. With them? First time. Yeah, same with us. It was the death wish. It was us, trap them, young and in the way converge.

It was like the Death Wish tour. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so you had four bands on the bus? Yeah. We just had three, but, yeah, it was. You know that big red one? Oh, yeah. The bit, everybody takes it.

It's got 20 bunks upstairs. 24 bunk upstairs. Yeah, there was a lot of, there was, I feel like they were still all used. Like it was, oh yeah. People just hanging their show clothes in that hallway. Oh, it's gross, man. Yeah. Never trod with them.

Love to. It was, man. That was awesome. Yeah, yeah. I haven't been on a bus many times in my life, but that was the first one. That was, that was the very first one. Yeah. Yeah.

I was just like nervous every day. Really? I mean, just, we had toured the U.S. with them a little bit, and that was awesome. But there was like a funny, so we, I know we got to go. To the AXTA Fall, we got to the AXTA Fall tour, and we were only supposed to be on the first three or four shows. Because it was like, I don't know, it was one of the early days of the flyer with 800 bands on it. And so Thursday was on the first couple shows, and Thursday invited us to be the band on it. So we got chosen because of Thursday not going to convert.

Oh, wow. So we were their pick, and Lodax was Converg's pick. Interesting. And Thursday leaves a tour, we then bullshit our way onto getting to play before the local at the grog shop. Jesus. We're like, we just need a show, we have that day, we're going to do a whole, we had a whole DIY tour book, we're like, we'll do the, can we please open the show? Like, sure. And are you on to, which is this time?

Axis of Paul, was that? Not yet. 2010. Yeah, that's right. So we were, but we were, it was in the works. It was going to happen. So we showed up to Cleveland and the only other band that was there at that point was converge.

And they were like, Tyler quit Lodak's last night. The, the, uh, one of the people in the party of Black Breath had a seizure. So they're still stuck in New York. Like, uh, so Lodak showed up, had their merch guy sing after the show. They were like, you got to go home. and then they pulled us in the room and they were like, do you guys want to take their spot?

So we canceled the rest of our DIY tour. Hopped, we're like, let's just do it, whatever, and then Converge breaks down two days later. So the joke at the end of the tour was, Tusha Moore, the only band do successfully play every night on the Converge Axe Fawntour. They left their own tour for like three days.

Coal S headlined. Oh my God. Yeah, Coal S then hopped on. I mean, that's pretty cool. Yeah, I was pumped. Yeah, but like, there were so many bands on it. They like throw up the damn jewelers loop to figure those things. Yeah, yeah.

I hated that stuff. Yeah. Too sure, Mor of the Lone Survivor. Yeah, it was so funny. Hey, where did the name come from? So, it's so funny to be asked that. I know, no, no, no. Thank you, I haven't had to answer that in a long time.

It's funny because we never thought we would ever go to Europe. So, you know, got reminded over and over how our band name means nothing, which is true. it's obviously French and Italian I originally liked that it seemed like it was just like a sarcastic jab

at love right but also it also could be yeah which I like that as well so yeah that's kind of I thought about making a self-title record but like naming the record

Touched love that's cool oh yeah but then our demo is now called self-titled which is why it's held me up yeah but it's not called I

that's why I'm I got you. Might be the next one. We'll bleep that. Yeah, it might be the next one. Might be called. This is fantastic. This is unbelievable.

That, Jeremy. Yeah. We love you so much, man. 20 years, 22 years strong. I think this friendship is with you and I. Maybe more. Here's to another 22, you know. I'm so proud of you.

This is a band I truly watched from like before the beginning. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Like, I'm mosh for stricken, you know? And then I saw you sing, and now I'm going to see you at the Pladium. That's what's up. And a perfect app.

Derry Bowl! One of the best guys ever. Wow. Thanks for watching. We'll see you all next week. Bye. This episode is brought to you by Mad Vintage.