HardLore - Karl Buechner (Earth Crisis)

Starting point is 00:00:00 I want to ask about the wrenches. The Earth First logo, their group that would go out in the woods and try and stop logging or mining companies from clear cutting or strip mining or doing things that were destructive towards the natural world and disrupting wildlife habitats. So these guys were going out there and sabotaging machinery and preventing roads from being put into wilderness areas. They were going all out. and their logo was a stone hammer and a wretch. And Judge already took hammers. And Judge already took the hammers. I was like, we need something.

Starting point is 00:00:37 And I had these radical, we all did. We had these radical, which we still do, animal rights, animal liberation views. I was like, how about a wrench to realign and a monkey wrench to sabotage? We'll put them together and overlay them. Stephen, clip it. Hello, welcome. It's our Lord Tom. How are you, Bo?

Starting point is 00:01:19 I'm doing so well, Colin. How are you? Exquisite, because it, frankly, it's a huge week on the show. It really is. It's a long time coming. Some would say it's 30 years coming, you know? 31. Who's counting?

Starting point is 00:01:36 We've got a very special guest today. That's right. A man who's responsible for me being straight-edge, many being straight-edge, many being vegan. One of the all-time great straight-edge frontmen, certainly one of the all-time great vegan straight-edge frontman. The trailblazing, groundbreaking frontman of Earth Crisis, Mr. Carl Beakner. How are you, sir? Good. How are you, gentlemen?

Starting point is 00:02:05 Fantastic. Doing really good. Thank you for coming back. We had a little mini with you quite some time ago. And I feel like we were just scratching the surface, you know? We were barely getting in there. that was one of our first interviews ever one of our first like fest interviews ever yeah you i don't we had net we had we had like spoken briefly a few times before then but i think in that moment

Starting point is 00:02:30 you were kind of approaching it like what the hell am i getting myself into have you have you watched that back since it's a furnace fest yeah yeah yeah it's awesome we're just kind of talking at you for 15 minutes which is great it was like and another thing Like the whole time. So I'm excited to, you know, have you talk today and learn some things. You know, you've been vegan for so long. You've been straighters for so long. You've been doing band stuff for so long.

Starting point is 00:02:58 But now I have just learned you are an author. I am an author, yes. How does that happen? How did that come to be, I should say? Yeah. Tell me about the unraveling the Council of Crows. Okay, years ago. I wrote a short story about animals that had evolved after being experimented on in a vivisectionist laboratory.

Starting point is 00:03:27 And they live in the future and the world is very different. Not to give everything away, but in the story, in the story, they're created by a laboratory that works for a mercenary army. like let's say Blackwater or Triple Canopy, something like that, which are real. And the Navy has used dolphins, the military has used dogs. So all those kinds of things are real. This is a fantastical true story in some way. Well, it has elements of reality embedded into the plot. But it's about the future.

Starting point is 00:04:06 And it's kind of a way. way for us to look at how bizarre some of the warlike behavior is when it's conducted by these animals and then kind of look at the mirror image of it and it's a reflection of how humans have this cutthroat competitive conquerous nature. Wow. I said to Colin that the title and subtitle is like, it sounds like an Earth Crisis record. Are you, I mean, it's a carryover of the, you know, a lot of the animal rights and environmental anti-state sponsored warfare ideas that Earthbreakism has always been about. Wow.

Starting point is 00:04:52 I just got chills. He just, he just chilled me up. Yeah, it's a science fiction story. Yeah. It's a science fiction story. Well, I mean, we know that there's no man more qualified to tell a tale about animals destroying the machines. So it's cool that young readers will now become familiar with this story. and then go back and hear what brought you there over time.

Starting point is 00:05:14 That's right. And Earth Crisis has done something similar in the past. We did a comic book companion to the Salvation of Innocence record years ago. Whoa. I don't know if you guys saw that. I'll definitely mail you guys a couple copies. But this is a whole world. We took a short story that I wrote.

Starting point is 00:05:35 And my pals Jeremy and Keith are both incredible writers. and over the years we built we built it into a world and there's there's three books and it debuts on on earth day it's being released so we're getting close what what's the date of earth day uh i think it's towards the end of the month 22nd April 22nd i believe yeah you know what keith might have wrote it down uh well Stephen will insert it here i'll tell you what thank you Stephen? Thank you so much, Stephen. Yes, Stephen will say that. You can pre-order that now. You can pick it up at Barnes & Noble. I'm telling you, this thing is real. Amazon, you can do the pre-orders for sure. Yeah, even now. I'm going to go and get mine from my local book seller.

Starting point is 00:06:22 You should all do the same. I really look forward to that. So, Carl, in 2025 now, how many years now does this mark as straight edge and vegan for you? I became straight edge, I think, in 86. I was 16. But I had never really wanted to experiment with drugs or alcohol or smoking or anything like that. I saw some pretty bad examples within my own family as to what types of problems those things would lead to. So I really shied away from it. And when I discovered straight edge to the bands of the time, I was like, this is perfect.

Starting point is 00:07:01 This fits incredibly well with the views I already have. So the bands at the time being minor threat, SSD, youth of today, etc. Any others? Yeah, yeah, D-Y-S, absolutely, uniform choice. And I probably had the greatest high school graduation weekend of anybody ever in 89. We graduated from high school on Friday. That night we saw uniform choice at a club that's now gone called the Elk Sloth. Lodge in Syracuse, and then we traveled to Albany and saw took an entry on what I think was

Starting point is 00:07:37 the J-Bird tour. One weekend? In one weekend, yeah. Oh, man. It was unbelievable. Yeah, I used to have it good. Let me ask you something. Carl, when you were that young, and maybe you were too young to really scrutinize it this

Starting point is 00:07:52 way, but based on how I'm assuming you kind of evolved through straight edge and your opinions on it specifically through Earth crisis and Path. Did you, were you more into the SSDs and D.YS that are a little more overtly and harder edge as opposed to minor threat and uniform choice that were kind of like, hey, you know, kind of more like liberal about it? Like did you see yourself aligning one way or the other? Or was that not even a thought yet? Loved it all.

Starting point is 00:08:22 I loved it all. And I took it very seriously. About a year later, I was very, very much. My buddy J.T. and I were very into skateboarding. I had like a half pipe in my backyard that we made out of lumber. We stole from a construction site. And we were just really focused on being the best skateboarders we could. And actually, I think it was, I might have been 18, but I was with my girlfriend and we were sitting at a stoplight. The story's going someplace. And I was like, it was in night. I was like, that guy is going to hit us. She was sitting there. She's like, well, okay, I'm like, that car is speeding towards us. That guy's going to hit us. I go back up or pull forward, and she's like, what? Bam, this drunk driver hit us.

Starting point is 00:09:07 The car spun around. He got out. He was crying. Something horrible must have happened to him. And he picked a brick up out of a wall, like a little flagstone and broke his window because I think he had locked himself out and he sped off. Oh. And we were sitting there stunned and like my knee got hit against the door.

Starting point is 00:09:29 And it was wild. Like she was okay, but my knee was hurt. Like we were rattled. And it just, that experience, you know, was very nerve-wracking. And it was kind of a painful recovery. And I think that at that's the point where it started to be like, you know, drugs and alcohol can be very dangerous for every. one, not just the person that's like using them for escapism or whatever. Wow.

Starting point is 00:10:03 So that moment would kind of go on to define your entire life in many ways. It did. It did. And then, you know, just seeing relatives pass away from problems that were directly result, direct results of addiction or, and then after that, you know, people are influenced by things in good ways and bad ways. now, the three of us are talking about the good influences. There's also a lot of negative influences out there. Like a lot of the harder hardcore kids figured out that they could sell drugs

Starting point is 00:10:48 and make money. And some of my friends are going over to Europe and they were, they'd fill backpacks up with whatever they were smuggling, and they'd ride the trains around, and they'd come back with dough and you know and even just from simple stuff like weed they're making like three hundred dollars in two days which back that was a lot of money you know sure yeah and I was like I don't I don't ever want to be a part of this um I'm gonna make like a clear line of demarcation between those types of behaviors of myself and were you were you scrutinized at the time for not taking part in any of that well of course people wanted me to do stuff because it was lucrative and we were all insane hardcore skateboard dudes.

Starting point is 00:11:34 You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And we were the only hardcore dudes at the time. And that's not to say everybody was involved in that, but like, you know, teams were kind of factions were kind of splitting. And people were going one way or another. And I was starting to get more militant and they were starting to get more, you know, fast track to profit minded.

Starting point is 00:11:56 and the city was in a lot of trouble. We had at least four factories closed during that time, including carrier, which was where they made all the air conditioners and things like that. Can't lose that, man. Yeah, I know. And like the street that ran directly up the middle of the city, you know, the main like boulevard, like all, like one by one, all those buildings started closing down those offices and getting boarded up and people were leaving the city to go to like tennessee or north carolina for jobs and

Starting point is 00:12:36 in a place like syracuse like we're in we're not in new york city we're not one of the boroughs we're north for people that don't know yeah like if you look at a map of new york state and put a pin in the center that's we are that's where we are we're called central new york um but the winters here are very severe so as soon as these buildings were abandoned and windows got smashed out or boarded up like in three, four years because of the weather here, it started to look like the city was falling down. Totally. You know, so the jobs are gone. You know, certain sections look like a wreck. People were upset and angry. People were leaving. You know, people saw their dads playing the game and losing, so they were trying to take shortcuts.

Starting point is 00:13:21 Well, yeah, what can I do to prevent, what's the point? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you got it. You can empathize, but also not take part of it. Yeah. Actively. Exactly. Because I did not grow up in a hardcore scene. We did not really, we had a hardcore scene flare up here in the very early 80s that I was a little too young to be a part of. I got to know those guys later.

Starting point is 00:13:43 Some of those bands like Fast Furious Death and Catatonic's. Like they were legit good. Like I would definitely urge everyone to check out the catatonics hunted down seven inches. It's great. Awesome. So, I mean, there are school kids and there was good, good music being made, but like that hardcore scene, you know, rose and fell pretty quickly. And then it kind of went back to like a punk rock scene where it was more like, you know, drinking and drugs. And that's, that's unfortunately the one I grew up. And I was always strange the whole time. But I was, you know, me and JT and some of our other pals, we were, we were the minority within the misfit, the misfit group. So, I mean, we're only a few years. out from the creation of Straight Edge as a concept. Yeah. So did you witness it kind of evolve from a song to a movement? And how did that movement hit your circle?

Starting point is 00:14:39 How did it become more than just a song? Yeah, I did witness that. And it was thanks to my cousin. My cousin was a little bit older than me. He played bass in a band called The Crucifixion of Christ. They never recorded. but he was a pretty severe guy during that era. He was kind of like the alpha wolf, I guess.

Starting point is 00:15:03 So we were kind of following his lead on certain things. Sure. And in some ways we were being taught wrong, you know? Sure. But, you know, he was always of that mindset. And later on he went into the military. But he was playing motorhead and angry Samoans and Black Flag and all that stuff. stuff for me as well as some of the metal like accept and Metallica, all that stuff.

Starting point is 00:15:29 So I was getting it all at once. But when it came to the straight-edge stuff and when it came to all the music, like what I was gravitating to and I was younger was more like a comedy-oriented aspect of it. You know, like Black Flag TV party. Yeah. You know, or Angry Samoans, they saved it was cock. Or the meatmen, you know? To me, and I've said this in other interviews, but it's true, so it needs to be reiterated.

Starting point is 00:15:58 Like, I was there at first, you know, just like I was into skating for fun, I was into music for fun. You know, like all those bands were South Park or Family Guy or Simpsons before those things existed. It was like the most outrageous comedy you could get, you know? Sure. Wow. But then, after all these experiences that we just kind of went through the itemized list of, Yeah. I was starting to realize that you kind of had to take things seriously if you wanted to stay up, you know? And boy, did you?

Starting point is 00:16:29 Yeah. So in this skateboarding era, did you ever shred it up in any of the scan jams? What we did was we would go to different competitions. Oh. And they would have street style contests at a shop on the boulevard called Wayne's Bike Shop. And what was cool was, every time it was a contest, they would bring pros into judge. Wow. They had Bill Danforth, from Alva, John Lucero.

Starting point is 00:17:00 They had Jim Murphy. And those guys judged. And, like, granted, I'd get third or fourth, but at least that place. Pretty good. That's pretty good, man. And I remember, I won some wheels. I won Alva Speedskins, and I saved them all these years. Hell yeah.

Starting point is 00:17:14 He still got it. I still got it. That's awesome. Wow. They're the only trophy ever won. so you do you still do you play bass or at least you did at some point

Starting point is 00:17:25 you did you still you dabble with the bass at all today I haven't been writing recently because you know I'm doing vocals for three bands simultaneously so I'm more focused on well you know I have and I play piano a little bit too

Starting point is 00:17:43 here and there but yeah I'm primarily just focused on vocals and lyrics at this during this era Which is understandable, but I bring this up because you are not the original vocalist of Earth Crisis. No, the original vocalist of Earth Crisis is the vocalist of Path Resistance. It's DJ Rose. And he's a famous tattoo artist in Central New York.

Starting point is 00:18:07 He built a shop called Halo. He's done very, very well. I've been to Halo without realizing that connection. Yeah. But I've certainly been there. And it was like, oh, this is the Earth Crisis guys. kind of thing, but I didn't know the exact connection. That's right. Carl, I believe I read

Starting point is 00:18:25 that he came up with the name for Earth Crisis. He did, and I think he based it off of, I think he originally wanted to call it Youth Crisis, which would be a great name for somebody out there if it's not taken, you know? No, he got it, according, of course, to Wikipedia from a Steel Pulse record from the 80s. Yes. That's not right? And I think we just went with the Steel Pulse song instead.

Starting point is 00:18:53 I was like, there's nothing wrong with just calling it Earth Crisis. And we actually have come out on stage to the song Earth Crisis. Hell yeah. That's very true. Which is a reggae song. And reggae and just so everybody knows, like, now I think a lot of hardcore kids, they're just, it's just the thrashy punk. It's just the different versions of hard, hardcore and metal. But like back then, if you grew up in the early to mid-80s,

Starting point is 00:19:18 with this scene, you were going to see Fishbone and Bad Manners and Bem Skala Ben. You were probably also going to see, you know, GBAH and Circle Jerks and Black Flag, but then if you got the chance, you'd be at, you know, later on, you'd be at Testament and entombed. You know, you would see the punk and the skater kids at all the shows. So we would, you know, meet these different tribes because the metalheads were the metalheads. Sure. You know, they were. And the punk guys that were older than this, they were the punk guys.

Starting point is 00:19:51 But it's all the greater underground. Yes. Yeah. Which is where we thrive. We've thrived. And that's what the show is all about. It's bringing it all, bringing the whole underground together. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:20:01 And blending styles and blending styles. Totally. You know, and that was a, I think, I don't know if it was unique to that era or not, but it was special because, I mean, you're meeting all different kinds of people. You're seeing all different kinds of bands. nothing ever got stale. And you see that reflected when you look at the flyers, especially here from Syracuse in the early mid-90s.

Starting point is 00:20:22 Like you would have a band like Overcast, play with Starkweather, play with like a youth crew band, play with like a dark edge band, you know? Dark edge. Yeah. Yeah, I think to your point, Carl, it is kind of a moment in time because now the phrase,

Starting point is 00:20:42 mix bill is even a thing. Yeah. Like that shouldn't even exist. That's a ridiculous concept. Just a bill. It's just a bill. It's a show. Nobody's the same.

Starting point is 00:20:50 Nobody's the exact same. It's really. No. No. So framework is existing side by side with this original iteration of Earth crisis. They beat you to the punch of being the first full vegan tradeage band, right? They did.

Starting point is 00:21:06 It's very true. But then you said, guys, what if we merge our powers together? Well, we were. I mean, they were a full-fledged band with two guitar players and a real drummer, you know? Like, we were just like giving it up. Okay, bro, you're going to have to play drums. Right, right, right. You know, come on, man, you got to sing these lyrics.

Starting point is 00:21:27 I wrote them. But DJ's out. DJs out. And framework essentially absorbs you. Yeah, that's truthfully what happened. DJ did not, he was not a big fan of my lyrics. He thought they were too over the top. Just to be direct.

Starting point is 00:21:44 you know and i was like that that's fine you know yeah um and i remember i showed my friend down the lyrics and i showed some other friends were like ah i don't know man really what what were they so averse to i don't know like well like let's say a song like no allegiance yeah you know let's say i mean even by modern standards it's it's pretty unforgiving but for me music is always it's an outlet it's a way it's a way to release that anger and vent it out you know totally that's like the psychology behind it for me. So I need it. And, you know, I thought straight edge has been very, had to been very disrespected by certain people. And no names were used, but I was calling people out. I was. I wanted to let them know how let down I was by not necessarily their choice, but by the

Starting point is 00:22:34 disrespect that accompanied it. Now, is this local? Is this low, you're saying people are just locally disrespecting straight edge or on a worldwide scale? truthfully both but what hurt me more was you know i've like i said i grew up in a punk scene as one of the few straight-edge dudes so i was getting along with everyone i wasn't judging anybody for not being edge not at all never you know but when they would but when certain people that were had stopped they would suddenly you know see me as the villain i'm like where's this coming from this is bizarre but it was because they wanted to like you know link up harder with those other people so they thought it would be cool to this

Starting point is 00:23:13 Which not very cool. Not necessarily either. Let me ask you. Yeah. If that's, we found out where the straight edge aspect came from for you. Where did veganism come around? Because it must have been literally cutting edge, mind the pun, at the time. Because vegetarianism was obviously a thing, even with a lot of the 80s punk and hardcore bands.

Starting point is 00:23:37 And just in the cultural zeitgeist. Where did veganism, how did that reach you? We have always got to give credit where credit is due. And, you know, Colin, you listed all the, some of the biggest edge bands of the time when I was young. So we got to do the same for the people that were pushing animal rights, veganism, vegetarianism, like, conflict, especially concrete socks, youth of today. Instead, like, all those guys were on top of that. Yeah. And they were doing...

Starting point is 00:24:10 But are these vegan bands? because youth of today, the Go Vegetarian shirt is like that's their kind of marquee item. Right. Who went hardest with vegan before you? Probably statement, vegan rike, and raid. But they existed simultaneously alongside us. Totally. Raid.

Starting point is 00:24:30 Yeah, Raid. Above the law. Check it out if you missed it. It's fantastic. Great, great riffs, great lyrics. So did music bring you to veganism? No. My, it came, truthfully, it came like that was definitely encouraging. But for me, it came from my grandmother.

Starting point is 00:24:52 My grandmother was vegetarian for probably 40, 50 years. Holy cow. Yeah. And my aunt, then my mom, then my little sister, they all went vegetarian. in and my sister would get the pita stuff and I'd be like, ah, steak is delicious. This is, you know, you're overreacting to all this. Yeah. And they're going to clip you saying steak is delicious, by the way, so you know.

Starting point is 00:25:22 No, that's okay. That's okay, because we're dealing with reality. That's right. That's right. And that's where I was coming from. That's right. At that in my mid-teens, you know? And my sister's like, no, this is this is what.

Starting point is 00:25:37 going on is not right. And she was showing me all that stuff. I was like, this is terrible. They take the calf away from the mother. I don't want anything to do with this. So, you know, I became straight edge at 16, although I, you know, never really had any interest in dabbling with drugs or alcohol or smoking. And I certainly didn't want to do anything that involved cruelty towards animals. So as soon as I saw those images, I was like, oh, I'm out. I'm not, I'm not doing this. And I became- So from day one for the animals, vegan. Yes.

Starting point is 00:26:11 Yeah, it's never, I've never been a health nut or an exercise fiend or anything. I should be, but like, you know, it's just purely for the animals. Yeah, vegan for the animals. Exactly. Yeah. And then, let me ask you this. Because I want to make sure that we're reconnecting with your latest project with the book. Along this time, were you writing?

Starting point is 00:26:35 Like, were you a journaler? Were you writing short stories when you were young? Did you have an early interest in creating and writing? Because you sound like a poet. I'll tell you what. Yeah, we'll get to your use of thesaurusism a little bit. Well, here's the thing. Like, for me, the first interview I ever did was with Chad Rapper from Chicago.

Starting point is 00:26:56 He's an awesome drummer. I know Chad very well. I've known him since I was a young teenager. Okay. Well, we love that dude. Did he ever talk about the fight in his living room? Probably. Okay.

Starting point is 00:27:09 Ask him about it. I want him to tell the story. I will text him about that after the same. I'll keep it short. I'll give you the short version. We were staying at his house. I think it was on the All Out War, the Firestorm Tour. And he's sitting in a chair.

Starting point is 00:27:22 I'm sitting on the couch. My roadies start fighting, literally fighting. And they're grappling on the floor. And I was reading a newspaper. He goes, Carl, Carl. I go, don't worry. They'll stop. and they didn't stop.

Starting point is 00:27:40 How was the newspaper? It was fine. You're just catching up on the day's events. You got it. And I was like, come on, guys, come on, please. Guys, I'm reading. And then they stopped. And I guarantee he thought we were all utterly insane after that.

Starting point is 00:27:58 But anyways, get it back to the point. He did a zine at the time called Persist. So the first Earth Crazes interview ever done was with a Chicago Zee called Persist. And we were talking about all those bands that you named at the beginning of Colin. And he's like, so what did you? I was like, I'm into skateboarding. I meant to Lord of the Rings. I'm into Star Wars.

Starting point is 00:28:19 I go, it's the holy grail. You know, I'm going to love this stuff forever. And I have loved it forever. And on some levels, it inspired me to write. And I always wrote short stories. I always journaled the tours. I've never released them. Oh, man.

Starting point is 00:28:36 Now, hold on a second. That is, I mean, you have it right over your left shoulders, the Rollins, like the cover of the Rollins book. What are my favorite things I've ever read, or especially his audio book of reading and listening to, is his book getting the van? That, I think. I would die for an Earth Crisis version of that.

Starting point is 00:28:59 Yeah, that would be incredible. It exists. It hasn't been, you know, ironed out, but all those journals exist, like Firestorm Tour, All-O-Wort Tour, destroy the machines. I would write them down like kikus, just like whatever the craziest thing that happened that day. Yeah, yeah. Well, let's get into it a little. Get it out. Before we do that, I want to ask about the wrenches.

Starting point is 00:29:26 Okay. Because the wrenches are now this universally known symbol of straightage. It's like almost bigger than the band itself. You got Scott Sparks, tataned him on his face as he's writing about shitty rap music. So they're bigger than hardcore. They're bigger than straighters. Tell me about where the wrenches came from

Starting point is 00:29:47 and how early did they, where they created. Okay. I'll keep this short. But the Earth First logo, Earth First are the group for any young, guys or girls that are listening that haven't really read or heard too much about them, their group that would go out in the woods and try and stop logging or mining companies from clear cutting or strip mining or doing things that were destructive towards the natural

Starting point is 00:30:19 world and disrupting wildlife habitats. So these guys were going out there and sabotaging machinery and preventing roads from being put into wilderness areas. They were going all out. And their logo was a stone hammer and a wretch. And I thought that was awesome. And the judge already took hammers. And judge already took the hammers.

Starting point is 00:30:48 I was like, we need something. We need something. And, you know, I came from a blue collar background. and I had these radical, we all did. We had these radical, which we still do, animal rights, animal liberation views. I was like, how about a wrench to realign and a monkey wrench to sabotage? We'll put them together and overlay them. And that's pretty much the origin of that.

Starting point is 00:31:20 Stephen, clip it. Wow. Beautiful. Wow. So you kind of skip the demo phase here. You go straight to the All Out War EP. Yeah. This is your debut.

Starting point is 00:31:37 It's kind of crazy how solidified the identity of Earth Crisis is right off the bat. And how most of these guys are still in the band. Yeah. I mean, you think, I mean, I'm sure you see it with, with both your bands, you know, when you're out on the road. It's like we are all, all of us are very lucky to maintain a strong nucleus. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's, there's, there's guys that have OD,

Starting point is 00:32:08 there's guys that have been killed in accidents or a suicide or these horrible internal feuds stabbing each other, all kinds of crazy stuff, you know? Like that is more the norm from like my era than five guys. stick together. So we're very fortunate and granted Mike left but Mike maintained his position and path of resistance.

Starting point is 00:32:34 Right. Right. You know, and granted, Ben left, but he had a job calling in California and he went for the opportunity and he's a nutritionist and he's been very successful out there. He loves it. Totally. Is he a vegan

Starting point is 00:32:52 nutritionist? I believe he is I believe he's fully vegan, yes. That's incredible. That's amazing. And then just for the record, and Eric was not in the original lineup, but Eric, Earth Crisis, Freopath, or resistance, Eric Edwards, he was in two vegan straight-edge bands before he joined Earth Crisis. And he would tour with us as a rodee and we would play with both those bands. And we're going to have to have Steve put the names up on the screen because I'm blanking right now. I got you.

Starting point is 00:33:29 Yeah. One of them was cross-section. I know that. Perfect. Good. Yeah. Yeah. So what is the reception to All at War within Syracuse outside of Syracuse and how quickly

Starting point is 00:33:42 did you kind of guys figure out that this was working and less of a framework side project and more this is it? The response was shock and horror. because framework was very melodic and uplifting. Oh. And my literature, I felt they needed to be as aggressive as they were. Yeah. And, yeah, that was that. I mean, like, people split up into teams.

Starting point is 00:34:14 Pro Earth crisis, or let's throw a dead mouse at them when they come to town, you know? Oh, my God. So is that happening pretty early, the Dead Mouse and yogurt? Yeah, I think. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Okay. But I said... We'll get into that a little later maybe. Yeah, but I... Yeah, but I said, I was like, okay, and you touched on it earlier. You're like,

Starting point is 00:34:40 Straight Edge Worldwide. And here's the thing. I dearly love all of the founding fathers from the original era of Straight Edge. I love their music. We've toured to them. We've played with them. They gave me everything I have. have and everything that I've tried to pass on. But what was missing with that first incarnation of it was like solidified

Starting point is 00:35:07 guidelines. You know what I mean? Yes. You know, so some people would say, well... Don't fuck was as a little iffy in there. People got questions. Caffeine. Where do you stand on caffeine? It's not necessary for me, but I'm not against it.

Starting point is 00:35:23 Okay. It's necessary for me. So, you know, I got do what I got to do. And let me ask you, let me throw, I'm going to throw a quick one at you. You mentioned the founding fathers of that kind. I'm going to hit you with, I'm jumping ahead a little bit, Colin. I want your Rushmore of those bands. Your personal favorite of those bands. We'll have more Rushmore's later, but I want to know this one. Okay. Well, we have to give all love and respect to teen idols and minor threat. Of course. Of course. But musically, lyrically stage presence

Starting point is 00:35:59 because I also got to see them and I did not get to see those earlier ones. I'll say Ray Capo, I'll say Mike Judge and Dave Smalley. Dude. I mean, I would take DYS over all his other

Starting point is 00:36:17 bands and I do appreciate Dag Nasty and you know, the punk rock academy fight band you know, all that stuff. I like all that. But, like, I don't know. You can go back and listen to those records and, like, the anger in his voice. And, I mean, you can't match it, you know?

Starting point is 00:36:35 No. And there's something, all of from, like, negative effects and last rights and slap shot through SSD and D.I.S. There's something that they had that, for my money, no other, I'm a huge early Boston hardcore guy. For my money, no other bands. Like, Judge kind of did it. And I actually wanted to ask, was. the more hard-minded and more aggressively lyriced judge, did that appeal to you right away? Were you like, when the New York hardcore, when the seven-inch came out, the judge sevenage came out,

Starting point is 00:37:10 were you like, there we go. Like fed up hits and you go, yeah, those are the lyrics. That's what I was looking for. Yes. Yeah, because that's a thing. It's like at that time, there was like kind of like two camps of straight edge, you know? There was like the suburban guys that were like, hey, I don't want to do drugs. I want to be a successful athlete.

Starting point is 00:37:29 I want to be successful in all my future endeavors with school or business or whatever. But we were in the city. So we were like seeing the devastation. You know what I mean? We were seeing like the drug sales and our friends from the punk scene becoming full-blown alcoholics or overdosing, you know, or just all of the vileness. you know sure like with the street crime like oh great that car got broken into oh great that stop owner got ripped off a gunpoint and half the time it was for people to get quick cash

Starting point is 00:38:05 to buy drugs you know yeah and when when when people say that you know when you watch some of these documentaries oh the crack epidemic dude they were not kidding that was like drug like like it was everywhere and you would see people like nod and out on the sidewalk and staggered around and Well, and especially in rust belt cities when the industry leaves, like you were saying before, when factories are closing and these solid jobs that have been around for a while. That's what's left. That's what's left. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:38:36 And people were, you know, people were just, you know, kind of left stunned by the situation they found themselves in. Wow. I got a soft track. But, yeah, dude. I mean, you can't. Birth crisis is your response to that. So it's all one track. You know, this is your, your coping mechanism for.

Starting point is 00:38:53 through that. How long did it take post-all-at-war? You know, you're established, you're playing shows for young hardcore, you to see and notice young hardcore kids rising in there, and being straight-edge and being vegan activists and whatnot. The environmental thing and the animal rights thing was very real for us. Syracuse is on the shores of Onondaga Lake. and Onondaga Lake was surrounded by factories that were putting toxic waste and mercury into it. So we would see, you know, a lake in the summer that's a short bike ride away that you could have put your hand in because it was so polluted and poison. Just some Simpson's Springfield toxic plant type shit. The first thing I thought of was three-ads flushed out of it.

Starting point is 00:39:44 Yeah. Wow. Wow. It was that bad, you know? And you just see all the smoke and the steam pouring into the sky. And right around that time, or a little bit before that time, you know, we'd watch on the news about a neighborhood called Love Canal in Buffalo. A development was built over top of a toxic waste site. And there was radiation leak from a power plant in Pennsylvania that was just a couple hours away.

Starting point is 00:40:13 Also, there was the toxic tower in Bingham, in a city, maybe 45 minutes south of us. And it had some type of contaminant that they had to bring all the people out of it. And they didn't even know how to demolish the building. So it was just standing there. So there really was an earth crisis. Literally. We were not kidding.

Starting point is 00:40:35 Yeah. We were not kidding. If the response to All Out War was shock and horror, they had another thing coming with the next one. Because right before the All Out War tour starts, Who was on that? It was us and this awesome band from Vermont champion. Okay. Oh, another champion.

Starting point is 00:40:58 Yeah. And we were out of the road. I'd be the better champion now. Yeah. And we were out on the road with those guys. And yeah, it was pretty tough. That tour was tough. We recorded Firestorm on that tour.

Starting point is 00:41:10 Right. On that tour in Cleveland with the late great Bill Corrachie, the Firestorm EP would come to life. Yep. And you signed with victory. Tell me about that. Well, we played in Detroit. And I will tell this story. I told this story before, but it's, it was a testament to how, to our tenacity. Okay. Okay. We got the show in Detroit. And we were saying yes to everything. Because we wanted to be out and we wanted to play. So we took my guitar player Scott's girlfriend's car. This car had no dashboard lights. It had a hole in the floor.

Starting point is 00:42:00 It had a hole in the muffler and it had a hole in the gas take. Perfect. Yeah. And no license plates. Perfect. So we took some old license plates that her dad had hanging up like for display in the garage and we put them on the car with coat hanger wire and I took a little flashlight and I held it in my teeth and I drove at night because you couldn't see how fast you

Starting point is 00:42:27 were going and if you filled the gas take up past a certain point it would spill out onto the ground oh perfect so that's how you'd know yeah it's fall time to go guys yeah um so we're driving along and we're going to Detroit we get to Buffalo and the, I think the muffler went out. So we skid. The one with the holes went out? That was the one. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:42:57 So we skid off the highway and we just happened to pull into a garage. It was at night though. And like we'd given ourselves, you know, a day to get there. And we ended up staying with, with Dennis, our drummer, who is not our drummer. Yeah, Mike was a drummer. Right. And I remember we played Jenga with Scott Vogel. And Dennis and I think his brothers,

Starting point is 00:43:24 it just had like a normal night. And how crazy is Scott Vogel at this time? No, at that time he was still normal. Okay. Was he like Scott Vogel? Like, do you know what I mean? Was he in bands already? Or was this pre?

Starting point is 00:43:39 Yeah, he was in Slugfest. We played with him the next day in Detroit. Yeah, but he wasn't out of his mind. yet. He's still he was still his stage presence is always the same but oh the best. Yeah but he he's you know he was still

Starting point is 00:43:54 relatively hinged I mean I'm not anymore either but that's none of us are that's why we're here. That's right. So anyways we went to we went to Detroit. We bounced over I think we bounced over black ice or something. I remember sliding

Starting point is 00:44:10 sighted on the highway. We pull off and we get into Detroit. We've never seen anything this bad yet. Like every store had like bulletproof glass like that thick. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, they're talking to you through like the little microphone. Sure.

Starting point is 00:44:29 We're at the stoplight hookers are reaching the car. We go, baby. It's like, whoa. Like, we've never counted anything that crazy. Right. We get to the show. Damn, Syracuse is kind of awesome. it was dude it was better than detroit in the early 90s i'll tell you that much sure so anyways um

Starting point is 00:44:48 we get in and we play the show and it goes really well and chad rapporte happened to be there and he went back and told tony's like you got to see the spanish guys are these guys are over the top and and that's how he got signed to fire so tell me about victory before before that. Like the victory is kind of their legacy is defined by the 90s

Starting point is 00:45:16 by records like Destroy the Machine, satisfaction, et cetera. What was it before that? What made you want to sign with them?

Starting point is 00:45:22 I mean, we loved all the stuff on Tang. We loved New Age. We loved Revelation. But we love victory most of all.

Starting point is 00:45:34 Because victory put out avant-garde stuff like Iceburn or Integrity or I think they probably did confront, you know, all that stuff. And we're like, well, I think we'd fit in good there. And Tony had been in a strange band called Even Score. Yep. Which was great. I mean, you know,

Starting point is 00:45:51 this is all probably just local history for you. It is, but a lot of people don't know that. And also, I wanted to say for anybody listening, any of my Chicago heads out there, Chad Rapper, the guy who keeps coming up, he was in a band called Haunted Life, Expired Youth, One Foot in the Graves. He's been around for ages. And he, he, He even once told me when I was a teenager, if I was still straight edge in five years, he would buy me dinner. That's awesome. He never did that. Chad, if you're hearing this, the bill has come due.

Starting point is 00:46:22 Bo is starving. So did you meet? He just made it back from Australia. Yeah. Did you meet Tony on that tour? I think God's truth is I don't remember when I met him. But I loved even score. I loved it.

Starting point is 00:46:33 But on that tour, you record Firestorm right in the beginning. And then you have this. conversation about Victory. So you've got this shelved three-song EP that would really define your entire life by these three songs. And then he hears it and is like, yeah, this is cool. I'll put it out. Or is he like, holy fuck, I got to put this out, please, God. I think we were signed by then. I think Victory sent us there, actually. If memories there's correct, and it might not. Scott is on top of all the dates. everything but like I'm pretty sure we got signed first and when the seven-inch came out

Starting point is 00:47:15 Eden's demise was the fourth song I think it was forcing the flames firestorm or firestorm forged in the flames unseen Holocaust and Eden's demise and we experimented with a lot of very slow tempos on that record that weren't really what was going on in hardcore at the time and I think that's one of the things that made us stand out because I was like if we stir some metal into the mix it's going to make the hardcore far more vicious so let's and let's slow it down. I was going to say, Colin, you said, like, defining his life, it also, like, changed the way people looked at a guitar.

Starting point is 00:47:49 Totally. What if we just did this? What if I went, good, good. And just did that. Yeah, if we turn the guitar itself into a percussive instrument. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:48:01 So what is, what, tell me about writing and recording that. Tell me, and then most importantly, tell me about the response to Firestorm, because it was like, this is a controversial song in 93, it turns out. It was, and I was going, I was in college and I was going off and on. And my original goal was to be a history teacher or a history professor. Beautiful. So I was just reading everything voraciously. And during that era, the history channel was pretty real.

Starting point is 00:48:36 Like, it was documentaries. It wasn't just like hillbillies killing alligators like it is. now, you know what I mean? Like you would watch it and you would absorb like really interesting facts about how the cities or the states or the nations had evolved and the different conflicts and inventions. Like it was incredible. And I'd get names from that and then I would go get books.

Starting point is 00:49:01 And I was reading about, you know, Earth First and the Animal Liberation Front and Greenpeace and the Black Panthers and all these different groups. And I was like, wow, these guys, to some, maybe they're terrorists, to other their freedom fighters. But this is fascinating, you know? So, and a lot of that stuff, like Unseen Holocaust, again, we're like, like Central New York is surrounded by massive reservations. There's the Oneidas and the Onondagas.

Starting point is 00:49:39 And I think they're all part, forgive me if I'm not pronouncing it correctly, but Hadasani or the Iroquois. So, I mean, those guys were coming to shows too, you know? Right, totally. And I was like, wow, that is crazy. Like, right now, there's people that are living in harmony with nature, like in South America, like how everybody used to live or how these people around us on reservations once lived. And roads are getting put into their land.

Starting point is 00:50:09 it's getting clear cut. So that's what inspired Unseen Hallcast, you know? And the stuff that was going on with the radiation leaks and the toxic tower and the pollution on to the lake, that's what inspired... Edith's demise. Yeah. And like, you know, people falling away from straight edge and us kind of in some ways feeling like the last been standing.

Starting point is 00:50:33 That's what inspired forage into flames. And for Firestorm, you know, the scene fact. And some guys going into the drug game and other guys saying, no fucking way, not ever. So all that stuff, all that stuff was about history. But it was a mixture of what was going on around us in the world and what we literally were experiencing ourselves. I mean, it still is. Unseen Holocaust echoes the same of the Palestinian genocide happening right now. It's like it's unfortunately as relevant as ever. Yeah, and people are talking about, like, you know, moving everybody out and resettling.

Starting point is 00:51:13 And, I mean, yeah, it is. It's manifest destiny. Yeah. Absolutely. Let me ask you, was there, I get the sense that the straight edge thing, as I became familiar with Earth Crisis, especially in these beginning, the first two releases, I get the sense that the straight edge thing was like, well, of course, your straight edge were sensical human beings. And then the like, the like, but like we're going to get like the controversial part is

Starting point is 00:51:43 the veganism aspect. Like the almost like the catch because I'm sure veganism at this time wasn't very popular as as a lifestyle. Were there songs that were overtly only about straight edge versus songs that were only about veganism? Yes. And while we're on the topic, I want to give credit to statement, Raid, and Vegan Reich. We did not mention Vegan Reich earlier, and they had the name Vegan in their title. And Sean has always been very kind and helpful,

Starting point is 00:52:18 and I think that first seven as they did is great. And that was one of the things that we did different too, because if you looked at the biggest bands back then, uniform choice, token entry, verbal assault, or Vegan Reich, or whoever else, they were singing, naked Reagan,

Starting point is 00:52:36 Chicago. They would sing in a nice clear voice like the FUs from Boston. The biggest fans all sang, you know, so like, I think it was just easier for people to it was more pellet, you know? Sure. But I was like, no, we're going to scream hard as

Starting point is 00:52:52 fuck, you know, and Bulldog you're doing backups. Eric, you're doing backups. You know, before Path resistance with Earth crisis, everyone had a backup, like you know, Dennis, we want you to sing too, you know what I mean? Like, like, scream like you're dying. You know, You know, scream like we're charging over a hill.

Starting point is 00:53:10 So is Firestorm at this point where you see things really pick up? Yes. Okay. Yeah, that's when we started getting offers for like legit tours. Yeah. We've heard nothing but like, like, in the Josta episode, he tells us about a very early Earth Crisis Hepery tour that they were offered that they just couldn't believe that they were offered. like it was it was this uh this kind of big right of passage like wow we're doing an earth crisis tour this is incredible and i've heard you say colin that like no don't be a demo guy but i will say

Starting point is 00:53:46 under the knife when that came out i was like this is perfect oh that's fair it is perfect i love that perspective yes it's it's a it's a flawless record uh speaking of josta could you tell me about the josta pigmy village all right he is a kid He was a teen, and he booked Earth Crisis at the Sports Palace in Connecticut. And he said, you guys can stay with me, you know, after the show. And I was like, okay, super. So we played the show at Sports Palace. It was great.

Starting point is 00:54:26 I get to his house. And his mom's like, why don't you come help me weed the garden? I was like, okay. And how old is he at the time? this time because he's been he's book and shows at 13 14 years old he was a kid and his mom i think basically thought i was a kid so she's like having me help her with chores i'm like all right it's the straight-edge curse she you looked younger than you were i'm pulling weeds with his mom in the garden and when we left he paid us and he goes let me fill up the gas tank for you i go you

Starting point is 00:55:02 you've got to be kidding me dude you're going to fill up our gas tank like we've never been treated like royalty before. Don't fill it up, it'll spill. No, no, no, we had a real vehicle by then. Okay. This was like two years, three years later. Good, good. Yeah, oh, the other part of that story is I crashed that car on the way back. I fell asleep at the wheel

Starting point is 00:55:20 and told me. Oh, shit. Yeah, so I woke up and we were trying to stay awake. I was like, okay, let's sing now at Gilligan's Island. So we're just singing Gilgan's over again. And I remember, I was like, what are all those sparks that I looked over and I fell asleep and we were scraping the median. Oh, my gosh. And I sat on the brakes and you spawn and hit the wall.

Starting point is 00:55:39 And you were going, and the skipper, too. Yeah, so it worked for a while, but not all the way back to Syracuse. So tell me about this Pygmy Village. Yeah. Okay. So we're, yeah, we had a van by then. And he goes, I want to show you that. He goes, oh, the shamrock shakes at McDonald's are vegan.

Starting point is 00:55:58 I'm like, no, they are not, dude. And I should have known he was a prankster at that point, you know? Did anybody believe in? No, no, I believed it. But he's like, we've heard of like the Jackson White. Have you guys ever heard about that stuff? No. No.

Starting point is 00:56:12 Okay. Well, supposedly in New Jersey, there's a some area in the Pine Barrens, some mountainous region where there's a group of families that have just kind of inbred, inbred, inbred. It's probably like a legend, you know? Yeah. Anyways, he said there was something like that up there. He was just driving us through the woods. I think it's this way. I think it's way.

Starting point is 00:56:36 I think you could fit between those trees. I don't know why we fell for it, but we did. He got us. This little kid is guiding you into this fake village in the woods. But he just booked us a beautiful show. You know what I mean? So you had no choice but to believe it. And we just trusted him at that point.

Starting point is 00:56:53 He'd been good to us. What a little fucker. That's incredible. Back to your point. Did he eventually just go, nah, I'm just kidding. Yeah. Yeah. It was fine.

Starting point is 00:57:05 Back to your point. After Firestorm came out and you asked, did they notice it start to pick up? When I have talked to people like Shane Merrill or Jim Grimes or Chad Rapper, like the old heads for me from Chicago, even though Chad, or I'm sorry, Jim wasn't from Chicago, but I've always known him as a Chicago guy. Earth Crisis was like, to Justice's point, the band. like the biggest most like pro serious band at the time and that's in chicago which is pretty far from syracies were you noticing that everywhere and how far were you going at that time i mean the big bands

Starting point is 00:57:48 truthfully were were slap shot and sick of it all and agnostic front and biohazard like those but we were we were probably the you know air quotes biggest band in our age group. You know what I mean? Gotcha. You were on Roadrunner yet. No. But all those other bands, like look at like violinsers.

Starting point is 00:58:13 Like they were, I think Warner Brothers and sick of it all was huge. And they still are. But I mean, like, I can't remember which album came out at that time. But I was like, how could they ever top blood, sweat, no tears? And they kept somehow topping it. It was incredible, you know? Yeah, they did a couple times. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:58:30 So how far were you going? How far were you touring out? in Firestorm like 93-94. We did one that one tour where we recorded Firestorm was so poorly booked we were literally

Starting point is 00:58:47 drinking melted peanut butter out of a jar in the van in Arizona. That was our food. Like that's when we started resorting to like shoplifting for food on the road. It was that bad. Yeah, touring as a vegan in 1993.

Starting point is 00:59:06 Yeah, it was dark. It was dark. It was an ordeal. Okay. You guys were you, were you just deathly skinny the entire time? There are some, there are some pretty wild photos of how, like, I was unbelievably thin. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:59:23 And we were just not getting paid either. Like, I remember literally splitting a toastata at four ways. It's dark. Yeah, it was crazy. And, you know, I felt bad about, you know, if, I mean, if we didn't get a, if we didn't get aid, we would have to steal stuff from the club. Right. And then take it to, you know, a music store or a pawn shop. You know, God will take the wedges then, you know?

Starting point is 00:59:59 Yeah. Hey, you got to eat, man. So are you rolling into town and looking up like, I don't even know because whole foods didn't exist, right? Like are you looking up mom and pop like stores? Are you trying to do as whatever fast food was available at the time? Like I can't imagine using pay phones and atlases to tour, let alone worrying about where I'm going to eat. Yeah. Right.

Starting point is 01:00:27 You know, yeah, we were using paper atlases. We were making calls from pay phones. There was no cell phones. There was no laptops. We were going to the grocery store and everyone would have a mission, like steal some food. You get the Scott. You get the peanut butter. Eric, you get the jelly. And let me ask you, was there fast food? You could eat that or were you ethically anti-fast food at the time? We were ethically and still are. But like, I mean, Taco Bell sometimes was the only place that we should go, you know? You got to eat. You got to eat. A cup of beans, brother. Yeah. I mean, we did what we cook.

Starting point is 01:01:02 We can destroy the machines once we're powered by these beans real quick. Yeah. So you're touring hard on Firestorm. You mentioned Sick of It All biohazard Slapshot. Are you in communication with these bands at all? Do you know them? We played with Sick of It All in Ithaca. And they were awesome and they were super nice.

Starting point is 01:01:26 Yeah. Like are any of these bands like, damn, you guys rock. We got to take you out. And are any of them like those wacko? vegan guys from Syracuse. I don't know about them. Yes, and that was real. And I'll tell you what happened. We started playing New York City, and rabies

Starting point is 01:01:41 met us from Warzone, and he's like, he was like Johnny Avons. He went around. He's like, you know, we played with Earth Crazes. We hung out with those guys are totally nice. So he basically was like the liaison. And he was

Starting point is 01:01:56 singing our praises to everybody down there. And then that was kind of the icebreaker. And his word his law to many, especially at that time. Rabies putting over Earth crisis is pretty incredible. That's a good war, man.

Starting point is 01:02:10 Wow. He saw the wrenches and he was like, okay. That'll do. All that works. And he, you know, and later on, we played shows with them in Europe.

Starting point is 01:02:20 We wrote the same boss. And yeah, he was definitely a strong supporter. And I remember he was, he was doing an interview in a book. Like I put in a book. And this girl was like trying to bait him against us for some reason.

Starting point is 01:02:31 And I don't think she, I think it was kind of, like old school versus new school you know that i think that was her angle and he and in that book you know polly polly storm polly edge has that book and he showed me the the excerpt and he he was like no those guys those guys are good guys so he really helped us and that's how we met roger and then his brother freddie and everybody else of course it's crazy to think about old school versus new school at that time being bands that are 10 years apart yeah yeah yeah but those are those are contemporaries now.

Starting point is 01:03:04 Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So 95 rolls around. Big year. And the people are out there begging. They're saying, Earth Crisis, please give us an album. When will there be an album? And you've been destroying machines your whole life. You figured it was only fitting that it's time to do this on a professional basis with a perfect piece of music. I would call it one of the great hardcore debuts, LPs in history. Crazy, I think.

Starting point is 01:03:34 Wow. Right? Yeah. DeRoy of Machines is an era-defining landmark record full of incredible metallic riffs, incredible lyrics. Incredible lyrics. Tell me about writing it, recording it, and the kind of critical and audience reception at the time. We basically took a lot of the elements from Firestorm, like some of those slower tempos,

Starting point is 01:04:00 the lower vocals, the aggressive lyrics. And I said, let's take it up a notch. Let's take it up a couple of notches on what comes next. And how involved with you are the musical aspect of Earth Crisis at this time? I was definitely a big part of the arrangements. Cool. Yeah, yeah. Because the insane step up in musicality and technicality, even from Firestorm to Destroy

Starting point is 01:04:29 Machines, is like, it's wild. Yes. It's a big leap. Were you influential to that? And were you just kind of in awe of what the rifts were these guys were coming up with? Well, here's the thing. Like, everything that we, like originally, like we said at the beginning of the interview,

Starting point is 01:04:51 like I was a bass player of birth crisis. So I was writing the music. Right. You know? And Ecoside was probably the song I was most proud. of. Sure. And I was like, this is what we need.

Starting point is 01:05:04 Tempals like these, wrists like these. You know, let the drums breathe, make sure it has that halftime bounce. And I would work on the arrangements with Ben and Scott and Bulldog. And I'd be like, right there, this is a driving double bass beat. You know, right there is the China. You know what I mean? That's cool.

Starting point is 01:05:26 And you're producing, essentially. Right. I was like, we're going to have staccato. vocal cadences over this part. Awesome. And then when we do it live, we're all doing the backups. You know? So we were writing as a unit and performing

Starting point is 01:05:40 as a unit. But then somebody shows up with the Danica, and you go, God, you know, again, I always want to take the opportunity to give credit what credits do. You know, we were musically influenced by Believer, the Dimensions album.

Starting point is 01:05:58 We were musically influenced by conviction. Right. We were musically influenced by zero tolerance and Slayer. You know, I love South of Heaven. That's probably my favorite Slayer album of all times. Okay. So all these things would go on to.

Starting point is 01:06:18 Yeah, they're ingredients. Influence. Yeah. Ingredients is a good way to put it. Yeah. Let me ask you. We had our own, I mean, we had our own recipe, but those were other ingredients. Let me ask you about my personal favorite song

Starting point is 01:06:31 and your opener the last few times I've seen Earth Crisis recently. Let's talk about the discipline real quick. Okay, cool, yeah. Again, using the guitar as a percussive instrument. Very much. That's what I tried to do with that song. And we started a touch on this earlier is I wanted Strathes to be clearly defined

Starting point is 01:06:52 as to what it meant to me and Scott and Ian and Dennis and Eric. Eric, like this to us is not a phase. This is not a chapter. This is the story. And the story is if we abstain from drugs and alcohol and smoking and promiscuity, we are going to be sweeping obstacles out of our path. We're going to achieve our goals quicker and faster. And we're going to be able to see things with a type of clarity that other people can't. So I wanted to present to the world what it meant to us

Starting point is 01:07:32 which is it's a lifetime commitment to to stay loyal to those ideas. The reason I even brought it up and we'll get there but on a later record you have ultramilitans and being a young straight edge kid I wanted ultramilitans to be about straight edge come to find

Starting point is 01:07:48 it isn't. Right? So I was always curious about defining each thing because I would I would assume in, you know, some people's mind, maybe your mind that their straight edge and veganism are kind of one in the same. I, I feel like in Syracuse and all of Europe, I think they're one thing. The fourth X is that, you know, whereas like, you know, for me, kind of religion is kind of that way for me. I think that that's, that's part of it for me, you know.

Starting point is 01:08:18 And I'm just, I was always curious about how you saw the two and if they were intermarried or if they were separate, you know? Well, here's the thing. I didn't want to, you know, we couldn't be you for today. We couldn't be SSD. We didn't dress like them. We didn't sound like them. And our message was different too, because it was so direct and so defined. Beautiful. And, you know, I respect the uniqueness of what they did. And that's what we wanted to do. We wanted to do something that would stand out that was true to who we are, who we will always be,

Starting point is 01:08:53 and what our musical taste is. Same thing. Some people would say, oh, a straight edge, it's a law of moderation. Not to us. It's not a law of moderation. It's very defined.

Starting point is 01:09:06 And that's why we called it vegan straight edge. We're like, we're doing something different. We're not trying to overtake your thing. We're not trying to take anything away from you. This is just what we're doing. And it caught,

Starting point is 01:09:17 you know, and it caught in certain parts of the country, certain parts of the world, you know? Sure, it did. Yeah. So you mentioned, having journals and journals

Starting point is 01:09:26 full of tour stories and anecdotes for me. Yeah. Anything ring a bell that you can tell the people?

Starting point is 01:09:33 Let's get a story from tour. I want a firestorm tour story. I want Destroy the Machines Tor story.

Starting point is 01:09:41 This is turning, this is going from Weekend Warrior band to oh shit, this band is my entire life now.

Starting point is 01:09:50 So break me off with something. I will say this. One of them, we played Milwaukee Metal Fest. Beautiful. And we were there, I think Moroder was there with us.

Starting point is 01:10:04 So this is the original iteration. It is now owned by Sir Jamithin Josta. Yes, it is. It is. And he gifted me with a Milwaukee Metal Fest gas station shirt

Starting point is 01:10:19 when we played in Chicago a couple months ago. Of course he did. Yes, he did. So, anyways, we played an early one. Okay. And it was cradle of filth. It was Marauder.

Starting point is 01:10:33 It was us. It's a good day. Yeah, it was a great day. And some of our guys, some of my guys, were mashing for Marauder. And your stance on Master Killer, could you repeat your famous catchphrase for me? Master Killer? masterpiece. And I love deadly venom,

Starting point is 01:10:57 I do. But that is, you know, like we mentioned when we were together in Alabama, it's like, yeah, it's age of quarrel, it's judge bringing it down, it's sick of it all blood, sweat, no tears, it's agnostic front of one voice. Yeah, there's, there's just, you know, Marauder has all of all those elements,

Starting point is 01:11:18 but it's probably, I think it's the greatest New York Cardcore record of that decade. You heard here. Next to one voice. It's not just us. I swear to God. Yeah, it's not us guys. No.

Starting point is 01:11:32 Yeah. And live, oh my God, dude, people need to watch them in Syracuse at Hellfest. Watch that video. Okay. I wear this.

Starting point is 01:11:42 Yeah. Check that video out. So tell us about Milwaukee Metal Fest. What was going on in the pit. Okay. So some of my guys, if you want a crazy story, I mean,

Starting point is 01:11:51 we might not, want to put this in. But I'm going to tell it anyways. Okay. So Wisconsin had a pretty strong Nazi skin presence in the 90s. That still does. There was two choices for the crazy guys. You could either join the Nazi skin ends or be vegan straight edge. But everybody seemed to gravitate to one of the other who was like very, very aggressive. Crazy. Crazy dichotomy there. But it's real. You want to be the best guy or the worst guy? much. If you were crazy as fuck, you chose your team. You know what I mean? Okay. And the bad guys went that way and I think the good guys went our way, you know? Yeah, I would say so.

Starting point is 01:12:33 But they were there and somebody got, you know, punched and tempers were flaring and we were outside and, you know, before I go on, I'll say this. like some of those dudes or one of those dude yeah okay after we went outside we're standing on our street light

Starting point is 01:13:02 and there's a stand I think they're from Chicago they're called I think they're called balls of power or something like that okay and the singer

Starting point is 01:13:09 was sent it next to me and these dudes were fucking huge these dudes are jacked and all of us are vertically challenged so vertically challenged

Starting point is 01:13:21 slim frames you know at that time and they like they opened up their trunks and they started fanning out and this one guy he opened up the trunk of his car and I saw him lift up into the air a sawblade and the light flickered off of off of the and this is balls of power both of power are with us okay false power is good guys they're good guys on our side and I turned to this thing I was like dude I was like I got a fight because they hit my friend but if you want to run, it's okay.

Starting point is 01:13:57 He goes, I'm not going to fucking run. I was like, okay, man, I don't know if it's going to go well for any of us. Holy shit. Oh, my God. Yeah. How to go? Yes, so how to go? Police car pulls up with the lights flashing.

Starting point is 01:14:12 Oh, I'm like, oh my God, we got sick. It was divine intervention because the dude had an assembly. Come on. Yeah. Jesus. You don't want, they made a whole movie franchise. but how dangerous those things are. You don't want to use those.

Starting point is 01:14:27 No, you don't. And we had another incident. We were playing with a Gnostic Front in Buffalo. And my bass player threw a brick at those dudes in their car. And this dude chased me with a little samurai sword across the parking lot. It was insane. Nazis using samurai swords? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:14:48 Yeah. Well, they were front of the Japanese. That's true. Yeah, I guess they know their history. It's the one that's allowed, huh? I guess. They eat hot dogs and ramen. That's it.

Starting point is 01:14:58 They shouldn't have access to them. So, I mean, it was a very volatile era. Okay. Wow. And maybe we shouldn't tell fight stories, because I don't see you guys normally do that. I don't know. We've got some. It's totally fine.

Starting point is 01:15:14 We've got some. It's totally fine. And there's statutes up, brother. Statutes up. And we'll, we can bleep names. We can do anything. But the, but the people want to know. stories, you know? The fight never happened.

Starting point is 01:15:25 Exactly. Exactly. I mean, my guitar player hit somebody with a rock or brick or something, but I mean, I think that's, I think that first it was in the pit, then it was with the rock or the brick, and then the sawblades came out. But I mean, the takeaway is, is that Chicago and Earth Crisis were willing to fight Nazis with sawblades. That's all, that's all we need to know. I mean, it didn't look good, though. Well, again, we're being real. It didn't look like we were going to emerge Victoria. But you were ready for it to stand up for your beliefs.

Starting point is 01:15:55 Oh, we're ready. We're ready. Yeah, we're always ready. So, with Destroy the Machines, after, after this, these years of touring, this is the highest selling victory release of all time at that point. Wow. And would remain that way for several years. Wow. Oh, I didn't know that.

Starting point is 01:16:16 That's right. Cool. So that's got to feel pretty good. I mean, if I'm breaking news to you, that's pretty cool. Dude, it's a hard law exclusive for me. Hardler exclusive. Carl, let me ask you something real quick, before we move on, Colin. When did Firestorm become the closer?

Starting point is 01:16:34 Was it like an immediate, like, oh, this is the song? We used to open with it, actually. There was a video, mid-90s at the fireside with a lot of the guys. I mentioned, Shane being one of them, losing their minds to you guys closing with fire side or closing with firestorm at the fire side yeah um so i'm just curious as to when it became like oh they this is like the hit we should close with it you know i feel like we used to open with it hard yeah we used to open with it and close with gamoras and then it started getting switched into different spots in the set until it became the closer yeah okay sometimes the closer decides itself

Starting point is 01:17:19 There's not much you can do. It's true. Yeah, it's true. Pardon this interruption. We know you're enjoying this incredible episode with Carl. We are too, so we're going to make this fast. Yes. Look, manscape.com, you need it.

Starting point is 01:18:18 If we're going to liberate these animals, we can't be stinky. No, no, no. Rule number one. Straight edge. You've got enough adversity in your life from everyone around you. Why would you stink, too? The least you could do is have people say, he smells pretty good, though.

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Starting point is 01:19:02 I'm back. I'm fresh. Wow. the monkeys will be free once you can see past your disgusting crop, okay? Manscape.com

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Starting point is 01:19:32 I check their website so far. frequently. Every time their Instagram says we got a new product, we got a new brand coming, whatever. It's like I'm a kid on Christmas. I respond with the emoji every time they post new thing. Like these right here. What do you got?

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Starting point is 01:20:03 Oh, these? I can't get enough of them. I just got back from tour. First thing I did was changing the whole. Unbelievable. Yeah. So this could be you. These are things that are built to last a lifetime.

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Starting point is 01:20:26 they're the clothing that you're going to call a piece because these pieces are going to last you forever. Somebody asked me, Why do what I wear salvage denim when I can wear a pair of Levi's? And the answer is you can blow out the crotch of those Levi's taking a piss. Oh, dude. Walking a dog are going to blow that thing out. I have to spin kick 400 times before I blow my crotch.

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Starting point is 01:21:10 The greatest vegan straightest frontman of all time. Carl Bickner, here we go. Yeah. So, you know, becoming the top dogs in American regular touring H.C., I'll call it, that can come controversy. So with that, I am of course talking about. the alleged floor punch yogurt incident of 1996. Can you tell me about that and other incidents at that time?

Starting point is 01:21:41 You mentioned dead mice. What else was there? Yogurt, mine, why are these things being thrown at you and what are they? Okay, here's a thing. Like we said earlier, there were bands like you said today, um, thinking about vegetarianism or instead, you know, feel their pain no more. What was different from Earth crisis as compared to those bands was they were, their message was go vegetarian.

Starting point is 01:22:11 Our message was, let's save the monkey from the laboratory. Right. Let's break in and rescue the veal cat. Let's destroy the hard drives in the laboratory. Let's directly strike at these people who are abusing and exploiting and torturing these animals. So obviously that's a far more military approach. Sure. You know, rescue and disruption and destroying their data or whatever else or their devices of torture.

Starting point is 01:22:49 And I think that one of those guys in that band or one of their friends or somebody's, relative was, you know, they were somehow involved in owning a first storage unit or something. Probably climate controlled. So maybe they were offended by our message or whatever. I see. And, you know, all the times, too, it was weird. People were very, I mean, sometimes things were ego-driven. You know, like, oh, why is that band headlining over us?

Starting point is 01:23:25 We're the kings of this scene. And I would say the same thing every time. I was like, dude, we'll play first. We don't care. I want to watch your band. I want to watch every man here. I love hardcore. And also, it's like, you don't want to play after us, brother.

Starting point is 01:23:37 Trust me. You don't want to follow that. I've never had an ego about where we play in the bill. It doesn't matter to me, you know. I want to watch every band. I want us to play our best. Now with the yogurt incident. Okay.

Starting point is 01:23:54 What I wonder is how, how, how, I, aggressively did this yogurt get distributed? How bad was the scene of the crime with this yogurt? It was a yogurt carpet bombing. Okay. Oh, wow. See, I've been curious. Right.

Starting point is 01:24:09 But the funny thing is, you know, nobody had anything to say before we played. You know, nobody wanted to debate us or go toe to toe to, like, barring or with insults or throwing a punch. You know, they waited to her on stage and they're throwing stuff. from out of the dark. And I was like, I would do this. Yogurt is insane.

Starting point is 01:24:34 It was ridiculous, you know. But at the same time, I mean, punk, I mean, hardcore does come from punk. And I understand that there's wildcats. I mean, I've made a few frank phone calls in my life. You know, I get it.

Starting point is 01:24:49 That's part of the time. Let us also not, let's consider the flip side of the coin, where if somebody fundamentally disagrees, with Earth Crisis. Yeah. Sabotaging their set is their form of destroying the machine of Earth crisis.

Starting point is 01:25:07 You know what I mean? Like they're also a flip side. You can't destroy the spirit in this machine, my friend. Wow. What a quote. Beautiful. And I'll tell you what. So people are throwing yogurt and they're unplugging our gear.

Starting point is 01:25:22 And what was funny is Dennis was just, he just kept the beat and the crowd kept singing. Wow. And that was powerful. And Fury of Five were very upset. Like for you? They were our friends and they were very upset because we were guest in New Jersey. Yep. And also, I don't want them upset at me.

Starting point is 01:25:42 They are phenomenal. But I'll tell you a story about them live later. But, and what is the band from Boston? 454 Big Block were very upset to all the original FSU dudes. And, you know, so a guy, they throw some yogurt, a guy runs up on stage, he's wearing a fake fur coat or a real fur coat, and kids started hit him. And you can hear me on the mic say, back off, you're going to kill him back off. You know, so I wanted to stop. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:26:14 Well, what was really cool was when people were being aggressive, our fans kept singing even without the guitars. When the power was cut to Dennis's drumbeat, and they actually got up on stage and made a little long. around us. So it was amazing. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Like to try, you know, to try and view that as a diss, actually, I think it backfired big time, you know. Okay. And have you spoken to any, any, anybody involved since? I, you know, I, I don't think I have. Okay. And I mean, do you want to go back 10 years before that? You want to go back 10 years before that with a fight on a playground. I mean, it doesn't matter, you know? Sure, sure. I got you. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:26:59 It's just such a, it's for some reason. It's this critical story in in Earth Crisis history. Well, to the point that it's created the two sub-genres of Straight-Edge. Oh, Earth Crisis Strait-Edge. No, dude. Because think of it like this.

Starting point is 01:27:15 It's like, yes, Earth Crisis experimented with different temples and darker guitar tones and more aggressive vocals and different subject matter. But, I mean, we've got our youth crew band, too. We've got Path of Distance. Right. Oh, we're about to get there.

Starting point is 01:27:31 Which we're there right now. You know, I love youth crew as much as anybody else ever did, you know, because that's, you know, that's what I grew up with. I love it just as much. But I wanted to do something, I wanted to do something different before I went back and revisited that and celebrated it in our own version. So let's get into that because a van crash on Destroy the Machines. in that era is directly kind of responsible for the formation of path resistance. Yeah. I read that everyone in the crash was affected in some way. Everybody got hurt. It was bad. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:28:09 That's a nightmare. I mean, we traveled pretty poorly during that era. We would take all the seats out of our van. Okay, gotcha. And load all the equipment in flat and then put mattresses on it and lay on top of the mattresses. Did that a couple times myself. Yeah, and it was, you know, not great when you're doing a U.S. tour. Well, yeah, I mean, you don't think about the fact that everything has momentum and everything's a lot more dense than you are. So when if a van rolls once or you're in a free-floating death machine.

Starting point is 01:28:41 You're in a blender. Yeah, now that machine, my friend, was destroyed for me. How, what, did you, how badly were you injured, Carl? Honestly, for me, it was just scratches and bruises, but I thought everyone was dead. Because, you know, I fell asleep and we hit black ice and our buddy Mike was driving. He goes, we're spinning or spinning. And we spun off the highway and then rolled four times. Oh, my God.

Starting point is 01:29:09 And every time we rolled, I was hitting the ceiling. I was hitting the dashboard. Hitting the ceiling, hitting the dashboard. And, you know, every time we're rolling, the windows are breaking and people are flying out the windows. I kid you not, flying out the windows. No one was left in the back. It was just me and the driver. And I was going... Can you still see this in your mind when you think about it? I had nightmares like, I mean, that was my Vietnam. Like I had nightmares about that for years, you know? And I turned around. I'm all bloody. And I'm going Scott Tennessee and Scott Tennessee

Starting point is 01:29:41 and I'm trying to lift up the base cabin. I'm looking for him under the stuff. Because I was like, I thought they got crushed under the gear. Yeah, yeah. But they flew out. And I didn't realize that until I looked outside. And there was this trail of wreckage, like, rectors and boxes and luggage and everything, you know? And boxes, like, just guys laying there, like, knocked out. But the odds that they all survived when, with the inertia of being thrown out of a thing that is still moving,

Starting point is 01:30:12 potentially crushing them, is, like, unbelievable. Yeah. It was literally unbelievable. like Dennis was laying there and he had I think he had two clap lungs a broken collar bone

Starting point is 01:30:26 Jim had to have his spleen Jim from conviction was out with us he would play with us from time to time he had his spleen removed his ear was partially detached

Starting point is 01:30:36 yeah everyone was all cut up everyone had to go to the hospital and and Jim when Jim regained consciousness he goes out is there still time to at the Salt Lake.

Starting point is 01:30:50 Like, wow. Of course it's fucking on the way to Salt Lake. Dude, was it on, was it on 70? Was it between Denver and Salt Lake? I think we were going from Yakima, Washington to...

Starting point is 01:31:02 Okay, so the other way, but still, Jesus Christ. Yeah. It's another tough one. Yeah, and so anyways, everyone was banged up, and Dennis was hurt the worst. So he,

Starting point is 01:31:12 but he always a trooper, he's like, as soon as I'm better, we're going back, you know? We had, like, he took him three months, to heal fully. Okay. Which is pretty fast.

Starting point is 01:31:22 Yeah, it's pretty quick. All things considered. That's the thing. My guys are all, they're all fitness. They're all judo, jujitsu.

Starting point is 01:31:30 Like Dennis is, I think he's a third degree black belt. So, I mean, his bones knit quick, you know. Um, considering how much the severity of the injuries he's sustained.

Starting point is 01:31:42 But anyways, our, you know, our old drummer from, from Earth crisis, Mike, He's like, okay, we'll do something. And, you know, we were just, you know, we would sit in the van and just talk about songs we wanted to write and different beliefs or different perspectives.

Starting point is 01:32:02 And I was like, straight edge is the path of resistance through life. Like, everything is getting thrown at us. Like, no matter who you are, there is some type of a drug that could tempt you. Maybe you want to be a wrestler or a bodybuilder. So you go to steroids. maybe you want to, you know, paint or sculpt, you would, you could gravitate towards psychedelics. Maybe you have high anxiety so you would want to smoke a type of weed or what, you know what I mean? There's something.

Starting point is 01:32:32 There's something. You know, maybe you're wicked into chasing women so you want to be in a bar and drink. And you know what I mean? Like, there is something that could tempt every personality type. Absolutely. And that's what I was like. So straight edge is the path of resistance through life, you know? And I was like, that would be a great name for a song,

Starting point is 01:32:52 maybe even a great name for the new band. And from what I've heard, the writing of both records was very fast. We wrote that first record in three practices. Wow. Yeah. And just like how DJ named Earth Crisis, I named Path Resistance, so the favor was returned because he was one of the three vocalists. I was like, so if we're going to do a youth crew band,

Starting point is 01:33:16 And I want faster tempos. I want slower breakdowns. I want more sing-alongs. I want solos and leads. I want multiple singers running around the stage and everyone will have a backup mic too. So it's like an army, you know?

Starting point is 01:33:31 So let me ask you, I had heard that with the three singers in mind for Path, tell me if maybe this is literal folklore made up, but it was kind of like the three different archetypes for straight edge guys, because one was a more punk, you were representing a more, you know, metallic kind of modern guy. And then there was

Starting point is 01:33:55 like a more like an in-between, a more traditional youth crew guy. Was that? It was, it was purposeful. Yeah. It was direct. Yeah. Because like I said, you know, we we love all that youth crew stuff. And we wanted to, you know, keep that torchlit too in our own way. And let me ask you another thing about this record. Thank you, Taylor. You told us in, in Alabama, that every single one of these people on the cover of this record is still vegan straight edge. All the girls are for sure, yes. All the girls. So, so are there some people in here who maybe you've just kind of lost contact with over the, over time and stuff as life goes on. But was this like the Syracuse straight edge, vegan straight edge. The dudes are straight edge. I don't know if all of them were vegan,

Starting point is 01:34:46 but the girls are definitely both. They're vegan and straight edge. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. This is one of my favorite. And that was part of the first path record too. It's just straight edge, you know. Okay. Okay. Got you. My mistake. Yeah. But I don't think, I don't think all that, like I said, I don't think all those dudes are vegan, some for sure, but the girls definitely. So one of my favorite record covers, like album art of all time. This is like, I agree. Here we are. This is, this. Eagle is sick. I saw this eagle at Halo.

Starting point is 01:35:16 It's on a flash sheet. Is it not framed up in Halo? I believe it is. It's awesome. And seeing it, I remember, I was very young, but I remember being like, hold, that's the one. So you're telling me that see the damage and counter, which are my two favorite songs, are written within the three practices.

Starting point is 01:35:35 Yeah. Man, that is incredible. It's incredible. Yeah. How far after was, uh, was the second? second record. On this second record is probably 10, 12 years later, I think. Yeah. Or do you mean how many practices did it take? Yeah. I mean, was that, was that another quick, quick operation? Not like that. Okay. Not like that. It was a little more intentional. It was. Yeah. Yeah. I got you.

Starting point is 01:36:06 Yeah, we wanted a better recording. One of my, one of my favorite things about that record is you can tell that you have been out on the road just crafting your voice because there are parts where it's single syllables between each singer and it'll be like From the Beth

Starting point is 01:36:24 Abraza it made it fun It made it fun live It did Yeah You sound so insane in contrast to the other singers because your voice

Starting point is 01:36:34 is so like finely tuned by that point That to me is one of the biggest standout things on Gamoa on Gormor's season ends the next Earth Crisis record is like,

Starting point is 01:36:46 that's Carl's voice. Like, that's your voice now. Kind of really settled into place on Gamora. And that just happens to every guy after touring. You kind of first hear it on the California takeover recording. Where it's like, damn, this guy's, this is road worn and his voice sounds crazy. But on Gamora, this is like the kind of Earth Crisis final form. as we know it.

Starting point is 01:37:15 So let's get into that record. Tell me about writing and recording that because the title track now, like you said, is either the opener or the close or forever as this incredible statement piece of somehow being the first guy to make I am straight edge

Starting point is 01:37:33 the simple statement of the song become this beautiful live sing-along. Well, when we wrote that record again we took certain elements to destroy the machines I was like what if it's even slower what if it's even sludgier

Starting point is 01:37:52 yeah okay what if it sounds what I want the image of like a bloody body being dragged down a hallway with a light bolt flickering like I want this to sound devastatingly dark wow wow and I think in some ways we achieved it and we took a long we took it took a longer time to craft

Starting point is 01:38:12 that record. It did. You can tell about it. Yeah. Two years between them, maybe it was long for you. Yeah. But we did. I mean, we used to practice. When we wrote that record,

Starting point is 01:38:26 we had a real band room. We had it out. Everything was miced. We had quality gear at that point. And we had you know, real recording sessions where we would demo things. And we tried to like fine tune it

Starting point is 01:38:42 as much as we could. You know, but we would practice three times a week, and practice was real. Like, we would show up in the morning and jam and then go to lunch and then come back in jam, and then we'd go to dinner, and then we'd come back in jam. Wow. It was beautiful, yeah.

Starting point is 01:38:58 It was beautiful. So a couple years of that is what it took to make the Gamora record. Yeah. Wow. And it shows. Yeah. I normally, I mean, we're fast forwarding just to like, you playing this song live, I normally dislike when a band does something different from a recorded

Starting point is 01:39:18 version. Yeah. Earth Crisis playing Gamora live dropping out for the part so that it's just the crowd and high hat. Yeah. One of my favorite things ever. Oh, cool. Yeah, that was fun.

Starting point is 01:39:32 It's incredible. The first time we did it, I was like, oh, we got to do that every time now. Yeah, yeah. I want to get into your lyrical style a little bit because I think. definitely on definitely i mean even early on you you had a different way of writing um in that you're using very eloquent words the vocabulary is really impressive difficult to learn um as a as an enjoyer of the music but i feel like by gomora season and you were really like like a wizard like we'll get in and you know the listener goes to class a little bit by getting to learn these lyrics yes

Starting point is 01:40:09 and the reality situation was I was going to class. I was going to college. You know, I was going to college because I wanted to teach history someday. And was the title of Gamora's season's end, was that you pulling from something you had learned in your studying? And you likened it to an application for Earth Crisis? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there's a story in the Old Testament about a city that was overcome with,

Starting point is 01:40:42 crime and depravity and victimization and exploitation and it was seen as so unredeemable that it was destroyed with fire right and i was like you know we're like you know i we might want to cut this out but i will say you know what i mean like during that era there was like all those innocent people were killed at waco and all those people were getting killed in the streets in LA and there was other riots and those horrible, horrible war in Bosnia. I was like, man, like,

Starting point is 01:41:22 this is getting real wild now. You know, like, are we like on the verge of civil racial collapse or something? Like, I'd never seen stuff like that as a kid, you know? Yeah, I don't think there's anything that needs to be cut there. I mean, you're absolutely right. Every generation kind of goes through these big events that divine,

Starting point is 01:41:42 in our generations and what better way to address that than your art? Art, yeah. I mean, maybe, but like, to me, all I remember is getting chased by cops relentlessly and, you know, handcuffed and being kicked and being slammed in

Starting point is 01:42:00 the walls, like the cops would show up. And if I was fucking up, they were fucking me up. You know what I mean? Yeah. So to see guys getting hit with bricks in the street and everything on fire, I was like, wow, man, the cops aren't even showing. up and this is serious. You know?

Starting point is 01:42:15 I was like, like, what's going to happen next? You know what I mean? And along all of this touring, were you an avid reader too? You mentioned Lord of the Rings. Absolutely, yeah, news junkie, history junkie, current events, current affairs.

Starting point is 01:42:30 And, you know, we're traveling to these cities. So we're seeing this craziness. We've seen the craziness of Baltimore and Detroit. You know, we're seeing the craziness of certain parts of California, you know, or Chicago, for God's sake. you know. And our city, you know, we would come back and, you know, we would feel safer leaving Syracuse being on the road at that point by mid-90s. Like, it was insane. I know you mentioned you were journaling along through all this. Are there any inklings yet halfway through this time period of you writing something like creating a novel?

Starting point is 01:43:06 Are you seeing something that's expiring or inspiring you at the time? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And that's what happened. You know, like, I would write these short stories on tour. I would also journal the events of the day or our goals. And I would also write science fiction or fantasy stories. And I would just put them in a notebook, in a backpack. I put my notebooks in a backpack.

Starting point is 01:43:34 Like, you know, I would see I would share my lyrics with my band members. But they don't get to hear about the Wizards and the Warlocks. They're just hearing about them now. Like, I kept this under wraps this whole time because I didn't know if anybody liked it. But one day, you know, I'll just criss-cross over into a little different territory real quick. And then we'll get back to Gimore's. But like, Jeremy's like, oh, come on over. You got to help me.

Starting point is 01:43:56 We got to fix the, we got to rebuild this part of the dining room for his lady, Glinda, at the time. And I went over. And he's like, bring that backpack you were telling me about. You know what I mean? I was like, okay, I brought it over. and we sat at his kitchen table and he was just reading through the notebooks and he's like

Starting point is 01:44:16 we should be developing these we ended up not working at all that day or not getting the thing done because we just sat there and poor Glenda man yeah Linda I mean she probably had to hire a contractor she's defying gravity somewhere getting this table built

Starting point is 01:44:30 not yet but anyways you know he was like he's like we needed to develop these into something real and I was like well we'll just pick one. We'll just pick one and we'll work on that. And that's pretty much what happened.

Starting point is 01:44:46 But to get back to Gamora's, yeah, again, I wanted to, look, it seemed to me, like, things are really coming apart at the seams, you know? Worldwide. Yeah, worldwide. And I was like, okay, we're going to need to be a tribe. We're going to need to be a tribe. You know, those deaf cases. Or Strait-Ech? I wanted Strait-Ech to be a tribe.

Starting point is 01:45:15 Okay. I was like, we need true unity. We need things clearly defined, and we need to understand the threats and the dangers that are out there and to get as far away from it as we can. So that was one of my goals, and I put that record together. I hate to ask this.

Starting point is 01:45:36 but is one more important to you than the other, veganism versus straight-edge? Veganism or straight-edge? Yeah. It's brutal. I know. It's a brutal question. I know.

Starting point is 01:45:49 It'll always be both. That I would bet my life. I'll always be both. I mean, if there was ever like some like crazy collapse or something, I probably would eat a fish before I'd starve to death. Or before you drank a beer for sustenance? Oh, I would never drink. I would never involve myself with anything.

Starting point is 01:46:06 that's not straight edge. I would never be a girl. I would never be with a girl that's not being a straight edge, never. You know what I mean? Wow. Wow. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:46:14 Yeah. But that's just the way I'm wired. Sure, sure, sure. Not to get us too off track, but I was just curious. Oh, that's all right. So 97. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:46:30 This is an incredible time for hardcore in particular. Yeah. Roadrunners on the rise. You guys are almost, you're about to sign there. But Gamora's out. This is your sophomore LP, the big follow-up. You nailed it. In my mind, I wasn't there, obviously.

Starting point is 01:46:48 But like, from a musical perspective, I think you did what any Earth Crisis fan wanted to hear next. What was touring on that like? What was the response like? Gamoras was awesome. And I thought Gamoras was the highest selling Earth Crisis record. Maybe not. Maybe destroy is what turned out to be it.

Starting point is 01:47:08 But those tours of Europe were fantastic too. We went over there with Snapcase and we toured with strife. We toured with turmoil who were phenomenal. Catch up with them if you haven't listened in recent times, everybody. And, you know, we were playing with agnostic front and we did, I think that was when we did the Guilty By Association tour. With hate breed, Scarhead, and Madball. Good tour. Which was a crusher, yeah.

Starting point is 01:47:42 Yeah. And this is Europe? That one was in America. That one was here in the U.S. That was the only bus tour we ever did in the U.S. Wow. And I have journals from that, and that was unbelievable tour. Like, I remember some of the guys who were in Mexico and they got arrested

Starting point is 01:48:03 and they were handcuffed in the backseat of the police car and the guy went over and opened the door and got them out. I mean, that tour was over the top. It really was. Just wild night after wild night? Yeah. Yeah, literally. Anything come to mind you can share other than, you know,

Starting point is 01:48:24 we might have to skip the details of it, but all I can say is that it was pretty out of control. Okay. Yeah. I'm sorry, man. I'm sorry. I mean, it is. It's just about storytelling,

Starting point is 01:48:37 but at the same time, you just never know. You know what I mean? No, I get it. Yeah, yeah. Some things you just can't talk about as much as you want to. Along this time,

Starting point is 01:48:46 I don't know exactly what the year was, because I wasn't able to find it, but there was an interview you did that's pretty infamous, I would say, where you were on the news about straight-edge, gang activity in Salt Lake.

Starting point is 01:49:04 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you seeing this everywhere? Is Salt Lake a particular bastion that it still is? When it comes to this mentality, like, how did you feel about that at the time? Okay, here's the thing. There was a band called Lifeless, and the singer Alex was a very, very violent dude.

Starting point is 01:49:30 and just like how my cousin was kind of like the alpha wolf that we followed his example in a lot of ways the younger guys were looking to alks got you and he was like swinging chains and padlocks on him and you know getting in horrible brawls of people and the guys in his circle were the same way So the young guy thought that that was just normal. You know, he ended up being an accident where a car flipped on black ice and he got paralyzed and he took his life to end his suffering. But, I mean, I think that that's what started all that there. Okay. Wow.

Starting point is 01:50:14 Yeah, I think it was just, you know, the war path he stayed on for so long. It just created this sense of normalcy for younger guys to get in. And I think it's because Salt Lake at the time, you know, You know, you'd go to school, you'd be out of school. I think there was just lots and lots of gangs, probably like where you guys are from, you know? Sure. You know, it just seemed normal, you know? Yeah, you got to wear uniforms in middle school for that reason as a young kid and not really understanding why.

Starting point is 01:50:43 Pretty wild. Yeah. But I think that that's why Salt Lake was the way it was. Interesting. A straight-edge bastion to this day. Yeah. what I can tell. Very much.

Starting point is 01:50:56 Yeah. So that's good. That's cool. So around this time, one year later, you guys wrote Breed the Killers very fast, it seems. Yes. That would be your Roadrunner debut. So how did that come about?

Starting point is 01:51:13 Roadrunner's definitely like the label in the mid to late 90s. Tell me about them approaching you, writing that record, and ultimately leaving victory on the note that you were able to come back eventually. Okay, here's what happened. Hardcover was getting bigger and bigger and bigger and Madball was getting huge, agnostic front, sick of it all.

Starting point is 01:51:37 Strife was rising, Snapcase was rising, Marauder, turmoil. So Marauder and turmoil went to Century Media. Right, right. And we went with Madball and both worlds and shelter to Roadrunner. I was like, wow, HardCard's going to have it day, baby. It's going to happen. This is real, man. Sounds very familiar.

Starting point is 01:51:57 No more drinking melted peanut butter in the Chevy Astro van. She can buy the jelly now. We don't have to put it into our cargo pocket and try to slip out the back door. And how big were, let me tell you. Let me ask you. Oh, great question, Colin. How big were them cargo pockets at the time? Let me tell you what.

Starting point is 01:52:15 I never owned a single pair of Jenko's ever. Never. Oh, how about that? And I never moshed in the backpack. Never. Those things never happened. So that's all, that's urban legend. No, man, it's chill cold.

Starting point is 01:52:27 Yeah, but you got that hat on right now, and that's a whole other urban legend. Why? What's wrong with the hat? Nothing is, that's what I'm saying. This is, you, it's the, you're defining archetype right now, you know? I love to see it. Okay. No, these hats are just a Boston, New York thing. Do you guys have them out there?

Starting point is 01:52:47 I don't know. We got them in Chicago for sure. Okay. They're out here. For sure. Okay. But it's like a certified old head staple. Okay, yes, that's true.

Starting point is 01:52:55 If you're a 55, 45-year-old hardcore guy, you probably got three of. You're invited to the unction if you got one of those on, you know? Right. I love it. So, Roadrunner comes calling. This is their top dogs. They want your next record. They do.

Starting point is 01:53:15 How hard of a decision is that? It's perfect. It's awesome. We're going to be with our pals and shelter who we tour. with. We're going to be with both worlds and madball. It's going to be beautiful, you know? So we're very stoked. We got brought aboard. I was like, wow, look at this. We're going to be on here for like six records. We made it. Yeah. We made it. And next thing you know, along comes a little band that we met out in Iowa. We played out there and we're hanging out in the van on the sidewalk

Starting point is 01:53:51 after the show and we meet these crazy guys are like, yeah, man, we wear masks and we jump on trampolines and we're, you know, we got some metallic hardcore stuff going on. I was like, oh, cool. And it was Slipknot.

Starting point is 01:54:08 So now their festival brings us this very show. Right. So Slipknot came out and Roadrunner was like, no more hardcore. Wow. Slipknot. We need Mushroomhead. We need these guys.

Starting point is 01:54:22 We need those guys. You know what I mean? Sure, sure. So they kind of dissolve their hardcore divisions pretty quick. Wow. And that's pretty much what happened. You know what I mean? Slip-not-killed Roadrunner H.C.

Starting point is 01:54:36 I'm not going to say that because they were supportive and they've been super good to us. They had us. Inadvertently, because the labels, all of their entire economic system was redistributed to New Metal at that time. That's what I'm saying. New metal, like hardcore was rising, rise, right? I'm going to see, bam, here comes new metal. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:54:57 So, totally. One thing I was going to say that we haven't touched on, but I would love to talk about is Earth Crisis merch. Okay. The merchandise over the years. And for lack of a better term, I don't like saying branding, but, you know, for lack of a better term, the branding of Earth Crisis felt extremely deliberate

Starting point is 01:55:17 and extremely like you didn't just put whatever on a, shirt you were very thoughtful and and mindful about what was going on a shirt and what you were putting out there i'm just always curious especially hearing about guys from before our time how how that happened where designs came from where who's doing that are you making them an ms paint yeah how are you putting these things together yeah what was that process like 30 years ago okay um when it comes to album art When it comes to t-shirt designs, they're all things that we've kind of had a vision for. And for the most part, directing an artist to, you know, create the image for us.

Starting point is 01:56:04 Sure. And just like with the wrenches, you know, it's like the symbology. And for lack of a better term, the slogans, you know, I wanted to leave an impression. Yeah. I want it to be in a way its own piece of art, you know, and to send a message. The recycling symbol should not be cool. That should not be that cool. It should not work.

Starting point is 01:56:31 But it works so well for Earth Crisis specifically. Yeah, and I love the idea you guys came up with us for the three, the three wrenches for the 30-year anniversary. That was us. That still needs to happen. All credit goes to you guys for that. So I, like you mentioned earlier, I just got back from a, and I picked up a very cool Earth Crisis design. Oh, that's stuff with a road grader.

Starting point is 01:56:55 Dude, indigenous people throwing weapons at a bulldozer. Destroy the machines. They are attempting to destroy that dragon-like machine monster that is destroying their forests. And that is from an Earth-first book. Perfect. Perfect. Excellent. That's exactly what we were looking for.

Starting point is 01:57:17 Yeah, exactly right. Yeah. Wow. And so, well, just to wrap up with Roadrunner, it's like, you know, I love the label. I thought it was awesome that that we got to release that record on it. Like when you lifted the CD out of the tray, there was like a five-paragraph essay, for lack of a better term, again, that was about the correlation between veganism and a healthier your natural world. So I felt like at that point, it's like, okay, we,

Starting point is 01:57:49 we accomplished one of the biggest parts of our mission. We made it to a real deal label. Yep. That was reaching out beyond hardcore into just, it's like, you know, thrash metal, death metal, really aggressive stuff that probably had never heard about any of that stuff before or straight edge either. Absolutely.

Starting point is 01:58:08 So I felt like even though we were only on the label for one record, it was, to me, it felt like a massive win. Big time. And your voice, again, sounds unreal on this record in particular. I agree. And I do think I would hope that Roadrunner feels good about releasing the hardest Earth Crisis song of all time, which is, of course, ultra militants. Dude, I'll tell you what, ultra militants is a super fun song to play. but if I'm going to be honest,

Starting point is 01:58:44 I just think it need to be a little shorter. It is four minutes. It's four plus. Yes. Four plus is tough. Yeah. And I said, listen, listen,

Starting point is 01:58:53 I've been arranging and producing a lot of this stuff over the years. You've got to trust me. Four is too long for the core. You're the guy who's interfacing with the live environment the most, right? No one, trust me, no one knows better.

Starting point is 01:59:05 Four is too long. These guys are going to all be out of breath. But the, now this war has two sides. Yeah. Well, again, was such a statement for young me. I wanted it to be about straight edge so badly. I know.

Starting point is 01:59:20 But I love that image because the war now having two sides, I literally picture monkeys with guns and spears and stuff, fighting back. Dude, the unraveling the Council of Crows comes out on Earth Day, and I am as proud as can be of that book, you know, thanks to, My buddy Jeremy and my buddy Keith, it exists. Like I said, we're having two sides?

Starting point is 01:59:46 Yeah, it has two sides. Like that, if it ever gets animated, that song should be in the movie. Oh, yeah. Amazing. Shadda, kick, out of getting, Ooh, ha, ha. Finally. So what was the treatment like at Roadrunner versus something like what you were used to at,

Starting point is 02:00:04 Victory? I mean, Victory was first class. I mean, they would fly us out there for meeting and stuff. Oh, wow. And, you know, they lay out like a spread for us. And I mean, they did a lot more right than wrong. That's for sure. You know, you were experimenting with the Roadrunner decision.

Starting point is 02:00:22 It was just like, hey, we have to do this. Exactly. Yeah. Clearly, Tony understood enough to welcome you right back to victory. There was no hard feelings. No. Cool. And, yeah, and we put slower together.

Starting point is 02:00:34 And again, like, we would get credit to jump ahead now on the timeline. Yeah, let's do it. We got criticized for Slyther. I was like, dude, we wrote a song called Killing Brain Cells, where you can clearly hear every word that it's about how destructive alcoholism to the individual and their circle of friends and family. Yeah. That could, it was clear enough and the tempo was slow enough.

Starting point is 02:00:59 It could have been played on the radio. That is delivering the straight edge message. Look, and people are like, ah, you guys sold out, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, how on earth could you brand us with that when we've got animal rights? songs and straight-ed stuff, and it's clear. It's clear. You're just changing the form of the message, but the message remains the same. Yes, changing the delivery system for the message to make it slightly more coherent.

Starting point is 02:01:24 I think it's a controversial cult favorite is how I would call it now. Growing up, much like Alpha Omega or something, like growing up and you're hearing about, oh, you got to check out this record, got to check out this record. By this time, they changed. is, you know, that can apply to a million bands. When you revisit Slyther as like someone who's older and into heavier stuff, I was much more of a punk kid growing up. A couple, couple fucking tracks.

Starting point is 02:01:49 Yeah, I mean, it sounds like the same guys, which is, you know, the evolution is there. The trajectory is there. Tell me about what went into Slyther and how the, we'll call it, we'll call it mixed response at the time felt. Well, some people loved it, man. And, you know, and other people are like, ah, it's too, you know, it's too melodic or it's too clear. You know what I mean? It did have kind of a higher end quality to it, like, tonally, I think.

Starting point is 02:02:19 But so did breed the killers. Yeah, absolutely. Which it really, that really worked for, like, that record is very clean and very hard, which is a really tough balance. Yeah. But that's the thing. I wanted to be, I wanted to try and get it to a point where you could hear the words and understand them without the lyric sheet. So that's what I was kind of striving for with both those releases. And I think we got it on Slyther, at least that aspect.

Starting point is 02:02:48 So do you look back fondly today at Slyther? The one thing I will say about Slyther is this. You know, maybe it should have been the first Freya record. I don't know. Okay. Okay. You know, but as an Earth Christmas record, as a vehicle for delivering a message, I think it accomplished its mission.

Starting point is 02:03:07 Absolutely. Totally. I remember reading criticisms of you specifically for wearing a leather appearing jacket for a promo shoot, which is like, it's really funny. I'm not even going to ask you. I'm going to assume that it's just fake leather. It's for sure. If you look at any of those old photos, like I never gravitated towards like canvas or denim. I always wore like the fake leather Adidas on stage, the fake leather belt, you know.

Starting point is 02:03:36 So it's so funny that that was. a criticism when it's just like guys some people don't need to be said yeah exactly it's winter we're gonna wear it's okay you know yeah sure so a year later you guys break up we did yes you're done

Starting point is 02:03:54 tell me about why why that happened and and what the next few years was was that you were like I want to do Freya full time or what else went into it no no no not at all you know it's like I mean We successfully did Earth Crisis and Path and let them overlap. Totally, yeah.

Starting point is 02:04:13 You know, but the thing was during that time, like, I'm sure with both your bands, with all your bands, you guys aren't jamming in the same room. Almost never. Yeah. Which I would love to. I hate that that's the case. It'd be easier, yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:04:33 Right. But, you know, we didn't know that we could do that yet. And Scott's lady got a really good job. And Dennis got a good job offer at Buffalo where he's from. It just seemed like, okay, well, we can't do this full time. I mean, the God's truth is we were tour burnt after 10 years. You know what I mean? Absolutely.

Starting point is 02:05:00 Of course. You know, everybody that hits everybody. Right. Sure does. And we're like, okay, we'll reignite path of resistance. and we'll just all work on projects, and that'll be fine. And that's pretty much what happened.

Starting point is 02:05:13 Yeah, it did take a couple years to get the path record out. It did. And Scott and Dennis worked a little bit on a band called Slave 1. Scott did a studio project called Isolated. And I did Freya with Bulldog and Eric, because they stayed in Syracuse. The other guys moved away. And we would,

Starting point is 02:05:37 you know, we would join up and work on the path record. And after a while, I realized, oh, well, you can write parts here and just email them. You can write parts here and email the file. And we can build the record like that. Revolutionary. Yeah. And after we did the path record, I'm sure it was just a year or two later that Earth crisis came back. It was like, okay, well, we can absolutely do this.

Starting point is 02:06:00 Like, the technology saves a day. Dude, destroy some machines. Right. Only the machines that kill the forest. We need all the... Thank you for email machines. Yes. I mean, I'm not into technology.

Starting point is 02:06:15 Yeah, I'm not anti-technology in any way. And the line is destroy the machines that kill the forest that disfigure the earth. You know what I mean? So it's technology being used in a negative way that's destructive. Which AI is the new forefront of that. It's just absolutely destroying everything. Right. And I've got that punk band that I do Apocalypse Tribe.

Starting point is 02:06:36 And that record is called AI McGettit. So I tackled that with that. See, there we go. See, he already knew. He already knew. Do you have a hard time recalling your lyrics, Carl? No, no. Everything's in the hard drive.

Starting point is 02:06:51 The only thing that gets me, the only thing that gets me is if I don't know what song is next. I got to have a set list. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you can think of that first line and be like, yeah. Yeah, that's the cue. Straight edge. Okay. Relatable feeling.

Starting point is 02:07:10 So emailing, the ability to email and send rifts is what got Earth Crisis back together somehow? I'm just saying, like, that's how we worked on the second path record. And we saw, okay, this can be done. We don't all have to live in the same place. Right. And jam in the same room. But that's how we did everything else. You know, like I was saying.

Starting point is 02:07:30 We come back from tours and people would work, part-time jobs. But, like, the majority of our time was spent composing. You know? So that was Earth crisis to you, was where we are the guys together in the room. Exactly. Exactly. And path was not. You know, there was no animosity.

Starting point is 02:07:48 There was no falling out. Like all of our friendships were strong. You know, everybody's the godfather and this guy's daughter or son. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Everything is fine. It's just like, okay, job opportunities, you know, more income, have some type of stability. I mean, look, you know, these are stories.

Starting point is 02:08:07 These, we're all telling stories today, but like, a lot of it was not fun. You know what I mean? A lot of it was not fun. It's hard. Like getting ripped off by, like, I don't know, I don't really know what things are now. But back then, a lot of clubs were like mob money laundering operations. And, you know, sometimes you get ripped off. It's a time.

Starting point is 02:08:27 It's a time. It was called Live Nation. Yeah. It's a different kind of mob. Okay. But like back then, like a guy that might be outbreaking kneecaps. You know what I mean? Like, and that's a.

Starting point is 02:08:37 a real thing. Yeah, sure. You know, it's like, hey, we can't lean on this promoter. I mean, his nephews, you know, look like they're out of central casting for some, like, you know, underworld crime film, you know? Totally, totally. And like I said, just, it's everything, you know? I mean, touring is never easy.

Starting point is 02:08:56 It doesn't matter that there's iPods and laptops and, you know, routing and everything else off the satellite. It's GPS. It doesn't matter. It's still hard. You're still away from, you know, your lady and your and your brothers and everybody else, you know? Yeah. Yep.

Starting point is 02:09:13 Totally. Let me ask you something. I was just going to ask you something personal about you. Yeah. It's one word. Bandanas. You are the forefather of sporting a bandana. Truly the George Washington of bandanas.

Starting point is 02:09:33 Okay. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Like I said, I was a skateboarder. And for as horrifically cold as Syracuse winter is, like we are in a valley. And a lot of central New York is swamps. People don't know that. And it is hot and muggy as hell for like five months here.

Starting point is 02:09:53 Sure. So more than being any type of a fashion state or something, it's a necessity if you're working outside, if you're skateboarding, if you're riding a bike, if you're running, sweatsh just going to be pouring in your eyes. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. So it's a functional utility. It's a functional thing.

Starting point is 02:10:10 But again, credit were credits too. That's what we should call this episode. Christian Hussoy always sporting a bandana. Tony Alva always sport in the bandana. We just thought that was normal, you know? To us, there was no like, you know, motorcycle gang connotation or street gang connotation zero. It was skateboarding, you know? Amazing.

Starting point is 02:10:33 Functional swag. Love that. Yeah. And that's what thing. You know, it's like... The way Ralph Lauren intended, you know? All right. You're bouts of jokes and I'm trying to stay on target.

Starting point is 02:10:47 I'm sorry. All right. Here's the thing. So if you look at half or Earth Crisis or Freo over all these years, it's always the same. I'm wearing the same types of shoes. I'm wearing the same types of shoes. I'm wearing the same types of shirts that are two sizes too large. Like, I've never tried to be a fashionista in every...

Starting point is 02:11:04 And anyway, you know what I mean? it's like we're going to grab a you know a pal-breltta shirt and a windbreaker and we're going to see what happens we're going to leave the Jankos on the rack we're not we're not fucking with those JNcos go to Chico

Starting point is 02:11:18 I got them all I got one more kind of fashion but not really fashion hardcore related thing on the cover of the path record is a guy in construction gloves that are axed up construction gloves are of course in New York thing New York City thing

Starting point is 02:11:33 yeah I've always wondered where that came from. I actually, I asked Joe Hardcore recently, he gave me where he thought it came from. I'm just curious. I want to ask guys from before our time, like where, what was the function of wearing construction gloves? That came

Starting point is 02:11:49 from Mike Judge or Project X and I think it was just a way to protect your hands. You know, sometimes you get nicked by people's teeth when they're in a single one. Wow. Fascinating. Because rabies wore them. I read a thing. Joe mentioned that

Starting point is 02:12:05 that Roger wore. So it wasn't necessarily like an edge thing. It was just... My hands are safe and sound ever since wearing them leather at leather X gloves. So honestly, I'm... Look at that. You're right.

Starting point is 02:12:18 Wow. Because that's a thing. During a pile up on a sing-along, sometimes you wind up and you see a little tooth mark in your hand. You know what I mean? Catch rabies from one of those. That's a great problem to have. So many people singing that they bite your ass.

Starting point is 02:12:31 Yeah. It'll happen. That's good stuff. It'll happen if... That's why the gloves are, honestly, they are a good idea. They are a good idea. Fascinating. Love that. Thank you. So what ultimately makes you get back together? How does it come about? How does it happen? The opportunity was there. The means were there. The friendships were strong. Everyone's hard drives were just riff banks. You know, the vaults were everything was stacked up. So we had just like tons of

Starting point is 02:12:57 material to choose from. And the offers had been there the entire time. That's beautiful. That makes sense. Yeah, and I felt like, you know what? It's like, Scott, the isolated CD is fantastic. Your vocals are great. Everybody should check that out. And I feel like Freya had accomplished very cool things. You know, we had played some really cool festivals.

Starting point is 02:13:19 We had videos on MTV and stuff. Like, I was like, it's not time to revisit Earth, Chris. It's time to reactivate it and accomplish what we did it before. You know, we can have better artwork. We can have better songs. We can have better recordings. we could be on a label that gives us a little bit more of a push. And, you know, I know you don't really want to stray over into that following era.

Starting point is 02:13:43 But- No, we want to hear what you got. Yeah. So, I mean, that's what happened. And it's like, okay, ultra-militans didn't do the job. So vegan to the death, you know, was kind of like, let's try it again and see if we can structure it properly, you know? I feel like vegan to the death, like that song.

Starting point is 02:14:04 accomplish what ultra militants did it, you know, as far as like getting a crowd going. You had the same intention. Yeah. With both? Yeah. Yeah. You recently finally did a proper recording of Smash v. Smash. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:14:21 After all these years, yeah, that was fun. That's awesome. That was fun. I just put it on again the other day. It turned out great. Dude, I was going to say, I'm going to the gym after this. I know what I'm listening to. From 2001 to 2007, what did you know?

Starting point is 02:14:34 in terms of differences, how has the response been since? Between 2001 and 2007? Yeah, like that was Earth Crisis's big absence. So you come back, you've been playing other bands, but Earth Crisis is reaching an entire generation that never got to see it. Like, Earth Crisis, as I was finding hardcore, was this thing that had came in way. Yeah, a myth. That I, this mythical thing that I loved that I could, that I didn't have access to.

Starting point is 02:15:03 and suddenly you're playing at the Ventura Theater in a couple weeks with my brother's band. Yeah. So that was cool. Tell me about just reaching a new generation of hardcore people and how that response was upon your initial comeback. All wearing the tightest clothes you've seen in decades. That is true. Yes. Well, I think that a lot of the crew stuff was starting to calm down finally.

Starting point is 02:15:33 which was good because shows were violent. And I think that some of the negative stuff that was on the peripheral edges of our world was starting to die down too, which was good. It seemed like the proper spirit was there. And we played Maryland Metal Fest. I think that was our first show back with full-blow chaos and Tyrant. It was New England Metal and Hardcore Fest.

Starting point is 02:16:01 Okay, New England. I'm sorry, New England. And yeah, it was awesome. It was awesome. Like, you know, people had been to see Path and they were supportive and cool. Path had been to Europe, Path had been to California. You know, so, yeah, I felt like between Freya and isolated and Pathans, we had accomplished some pretty cool things during that gap in time. And when we came back, kids were, kids were very stoked and they were bringing their little

Starting point is 02:16:29 brothers. And there was some guys that hadn't seen us before that had seen us for the first time and they knew words to the new record and it was really cool. It was. And how do you reflect now on Earth Crisis overall legacy?

Starting point is 02:16:46 Getting people like me in straight age, getting tens of thousands of people into veganism, probably. I think it is a team effort, you know? It really is a team effort.

Starting point is 02:17:01 It's a collective force of of all the bands that we love and, you know, us just passing the torch to each other. And, I mean, think about what you guys do, you know, with Hanswey and God's Hate and that body and everything. Like, we're all doing the same thing. We're all still in love with this music. We're all still obsessed with it. It's in our blood.

Starting point is 02:17:24 We love it. You know, it hurts us to do it. It tears us away from things. It puts us in parts of the world. We might otherwise never go, you know. that some of them are dangerous. But yeah, it's fantastic. I mean, I wouldn't change this thing.

Starting point is 02:17:39 I really wouldn't. Because everything is, you know, everything is a lesson that we can learn from, and it helps us advance, and it helps us understand other people and ourselves. I know that sounds a little hippie-ish, but it's real. I mean, I think being vegan straight-edge for 30 years,

Starting point is 02:18:00 you're allowed to get hippie as much as you want, you know? One love, you know? For real. We're named after a reggae song. See? It's fine. The interesting thing is, though, Carl, is like, Colin and I have bands to go off of. Even Joste said they had Earth Crisis to kind of go off of as to what was possible.

Starting point is 02:18:25 The direction, both ethically and, like, the message, and musically that Earth Crisis was doing, all combined in one. I know that there were influences, but truly combined into one package is unheard of prior and just really amazing to see the impact thereof and to, like, hear these stories

Starting point is 02:18:50 and to see, you know, exactly what you were able to do with such a thing. Well, here's a thing, you know, it's like, like I said, I thought, You know, we got a critique by your brother a little bit. I remember in an episode in the past. What was it? He said, you know, not everything with Earth Crisis is real, you know?

Starting point is 02:19:11 Like they were singing about some stuff, like, let's say, nuclear war or whatever, you know? Oh, okay, okay. Do you remember that? No, but I mean, I got nuclear war songs, so I get it. I get where you're coming. In my mind, the nuclear war is real. Because we lost to push button warfare, right? Oh, and in the, I see.

Starting point is 02:19:29 I see in the the brackets. Man, Carl's watching a little more than we know. Dude, you got me in my favorite podcast. I'm not even kidding. I watch you guys more than Joe Rogan. I really do. Well, thank God for that. That's how I can recognize your voices before we turn the camera around.

Starting point is 02:19:46 Beautiful. That's incredible. I could address you my name because I know your voices. But anyways, yeah, I think that we witnessed so much environmental devastation, so many casualties and fatalities of the drug plague, so many, you know, suicides and everything else that just were related to the chaos of what was going on in this city when we grew up. Yeah. You know, that it was like, we have to develop a plan. We have to have a code of conduct and we have to be a brotherhood and a sisterhood and stick together because I literally think everything's going to collapse.

Starting point is 02:20:27 Wow. And you've thought that since 1993. Pretty much. I mean, that's how crazy things were. It's like, okay, you know, you heard World War II never again, never again, never again. I'm like 23, 24 years old and there's death camps in Europe again. You know what I mean? I'm watching the police not show up and guys getting smack with bricks, you know, and everything's on fire. And the police are staying home, you know? And it was just getting crazy and crazy. I was like, this is not a game. You know, this is real.

Starting point is 02:21:01 Like, we have to be a brotherhood and sisterhood and stick together because, like I said, you know, I feel like we're just headed into more and more dangerous times. Amen. Wow. Including right now. And I don't want that. You know, I want to heal the world. I want unity between people.

Starting point is 02:21:21 And the hardcore scene I grew up in that I helped be a part of putting together, you know, was it was the opposite of cancel culture. It was inclusive culture. You know, you didn't have to think the exact same way to be my friend. You know, and Freya, that was part of Freya, too. It's like, we got this band that I want everybody to play in. You know, we can be its own tribe. If you're free, come with us.

Starting point is 02:21:46 You know, and if you want to drink, you can drink. I'm going to be driving so you'll be fine. You know what I mean? I mean, one thing that I do, and I've always admired about Earth Crisis, is that it's not nihilistic. It's like... No. It's pretty...

Starting point is 02:22:00 It's like... It's very optimistic. Whether you agree with us or not, here is how we think you can fix yourself or fix things. And that's kind of rare. You know, like, it's easy to write nihilistically.

Starting point is 02:22:13 It's easy to be like, yeah, it's all fuck. You know? That's an easier path of least resistance. In many ways, yeah. Something we talked about during that interview we did many years ago now, Carl, was,

Starting point is 02:22:29 and that I'd like to leave this on before we get to some questions from our Patreon people. I want to talk about the bunker, Carl. I'm officially, I'm doing the call in public. Who do we still got? What new bands are going in the bunker? And the bunker, of course, meaning who is still straight-edge? And in the apocalypse, who are we saving?

Starting point is 02:22:54 We're going to save everybody we can. And I'll tell you what. Polly from Storm, still straight edge. Chuck from Black Sheep Squadron. He's a lifer. Okay. The guy's in perfect murder. Up in Canada, we've got on dying in North Carolina, all still edge.

Starting point is 02:23:20 Who have we lost in the past three years? What straight edge in memoriams can we do since 2022? Well, we lost Isaac from Forrest to the Grim Reaper. Oh, geez. Really? Yeah. I think he got hit on the motorcycle. Oh, that's devastating. Yes.

Starting point is 02:23:40 And we love chorus. I mean, that big chorus. That inspired the PATH column album cover, the first one. If you go back and look at the course of disapproval album, that that was the source of the image. Wow, that's amazing. Awesome. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:23:59 Well, I didn't mean that. Yeah, RIP. I didn't mean to, actually. No, I don't, I don't keep tabs on the edge breakers or on the sellouts. I don't. You keep tabs on the new blood. Who do we got? What are some modern straight edge bands you want, new straight edge bands you want in the bunker with us?

Starting point is 02:24:17 We're going to have clear cut from Germany. Okay. Okay. We need some Germans to keep us on our toes. So that makes sense. We do. Keep things organized. We got to stay humble, you know?

Starting point is 02:24:29 Yeah. Keep things organized. Eco strike. Yeah. Of course. Nomad. Okay. There's a, oh boy.

Starting point is 02:24:42 There's a new straight-edge band from Syracuse with a girl singing. Oh, really? Is that, I don't want to say the wrong band. Yeah. It's X. Oh, man. Love it already. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:24:56 I'll look it up. I'll look it up. We got fire starter, Carl. We got fire starter. We got a starter. We got a starter. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:25:04 So, I mean, there's plenty. It's a big got a bit. The bunker's getting, the bunker was getting small for a while. Siver from Japan. Okay. Cool. Thank. That's awesome.

Starting point is 02:25:14 We need them. Yeah. Oh, that's something I wanted to ask you about, Carl. If you're, if you're done with the bunker. Are we? Is the bunker full? We're never. We cannot possibly be full. We need more. We need more. Okay. We need more square footage. I gave you some. Give me some. I'm ready.

Starting point is 02:25:31 Yeah, I gave you a fire starter I need in the bunker. I need Brad. I would say magnitudes in the bunker. They're young. Of course. They're hungry edgemen. Yes. Yeah. Yes. I saw them. They were great. Foundation. Foundation could go right in that bunker. They're Georgia, right? Yes, sir. Yeah. Yeah. quality there. So if you're in a

Starting point is 02:25:52 Stradish band, put your name below and we'll see if we can make some room for you in the bunker there. Colin and I are the dormant for the bunker. We'll see if you're on the list.

Starting point is 02:25:59 We're the door. Yeah, we're there with sunglasses on. Just like, ah. Real quick, what I wanted to ask about. Oh, yes. Earth Crisis had a DVD.

Starting point is 02:26:09 Yes. Which was like fucking crazy to me to learn about in early 2000s when I learned about it. In it, you're playing, you're touring and playing in Japan. And I remember, I think even in the DVD, there's like, this is us in Japan, we're eating

Starting point is 02:26:26 fucking rice because it's the only thing. Fishheads everywhere. Yeah, they go heavy with the seafood. Yeah. It broke my brain. You had heard about bands going to Canada, going to Europe. That was normal. A hardcore band touring Japan seemed like such a reach to me as I was young. I didn't think that would even be possible. And I'm just curious about how you find it, how you found it your first time being there and how you managed to not starve. I think that we were the first American strange band to play Japan, at least the first hardcore, strange hardcore band to play Japan. Wow, that's awesome. Thank you for opening the door, because now I don't want to play anywhere else. It's all I want. Yeah, it is incredible. You know,

Starting point is 02:27:13 we've been to Japan, we've been to Singapore, Indonesia, Australia, but never we've never been to Korea yet have either you guys been there not been to no I'm dying to go you're trying to play soul yeah I would love to go to Korea you're going to Brazil tomorrow that's pretty cool yep Brazil is tomorrow yeah it's coming quick awesome awesome well let's not let's not keep you let's hit these questions yeah let's get okay okay fire it will all right first question watching earth crisis sets from the 90s and early 2000s Carl had a sick-ass t-shirt collection do you still have these crazy pieces, stuff like animal liberation front designs, et cetera?

Starting point is 02:27:53 I do. Yep. Everything's, uh, everything's been well taken care of. I basically have like a little museum of all the stuff. And I kept every demo anyone's ever given me to. Wow. Wow. Wow. Bunk, it's, we need them for the bunker. Let's see here. Tell us about it could get dull in there. You're right. We need them. Yeah, we need entertainment. Other than the Germans. Could you tell us about having Rob Flynn do a guest spot on One Against All? Yeah. I mean, I think the Burning Red is a masterpiece. Burning Red is the masterpiece of the Discog?

Starting point is 02:28:33 It might be. Overburn my eyes? Which is the one that has let Freedom Ring with a shotgun blast? That's burn my eyes. Okay, burn my eyes. There's burning involved in both. You're a fire, you're a fire guy. It makes sense.

Starting point is 02:28:46 They got me with the shotgun blast line. And I was like, okay, I love this fan. About Waco, which you had mentioned before as being kind of, you know, influential to you. Absolutely. When it came to lyrics and stuff. So did you just reach out cold or was this a roadrunner connection thing? I think Scott knew him because Scott had lived in California. Okay.

Starting point is 02:29:08 I think that's how that happened. Very cool. Yeah. Are there any other passions in life that you hold as dearly as you do, vegan and straightage? I mean, I have plenty of hobbies. Yeah. I mean, I've done everything. I mean, I used to play street hockey. I did softball. I did martial arts and fenced. I've done everything. I've done everything. Yeah. Very cool. What are your top three non-major city scenes to play for or were maybe in the 90s? That's a good one. Because now everywhere kind of rocks. So like what were those underrated? places where you'd show up not knowing what the crowd was going to be like and then it was just

Starting point is 02:29:52 insane. Musick, Pennsylvania would have to be one of them. Never heard that name in my whole life. Yeah, that was great. We would play there. We'd play Springfield Mass. They had a wild scene, yep. That's Western

Starting point is 02:30:08 Mass. I've played there once. Oh, Western, sorry. And Maine. Maine was awesome, too. Wow. I remember my baseball. player was jumping and he broke he broke the stage

Starting point is 02:30:20 hell yeah he was he's a he's a thick boy so that he is yeah yeah it makes sense for sure so there's this famous photo of a kid in his room with one X on his fists and a bunch of

Starting point is 02:30:35 looks like Pluto stuffed animals can you confirm or deny whether or not this is you that is me indeed wow you got a pink you got a pink Ombray. That's right. You're really ahead of your time here.

Starting point is 02:30:51 I don't think you even know. In what way? Just like, I see the singer of a band. I'm going to go see it at midnight hour here. Yeah, like he'd be big in the scram scene. Yeah, and then having the Pluto collection, I feel like people would be much more loud and proud about the Pluto collection now. Tell me about this kid, seen here.

Starting point is 02:31:14 Tell me about the origin of this photo, too. Okay, that was There's some core stuff on the wall There's a map of Middle Earth Oh There's some Prize some Star Wars stuff

Starting point is 02:31:32 And Cars and books Yeah, there's all kinds of stuff Yeah, it's Yeah, the Middle Earth map is right above the Convulsion and Cramp sticker And next to the fate void record that's right

Starting point is 02:31:47 yeah so i mean that's basically what before there was before there was a flood from the attic that wrecked that room that's pretty much what it looked like for six straight years yeah it's a good bed spread too looks crazy this is an incredible picture i need a new earth crisis shirt with this picture

Starting point is 02:32:09 with that picture it's time it's time um is the lore true that the fbi sent warning letters to factory farms upon the release of breed the killers. That is true. And that comes directly from, let's see, Peter Young. Peter Young was an ALF activist that freed probably thousands of animals from fur ranches, vegan straightest guy from Pacific Northwest.

Starting point is 02:32:46 And I'm pretty sure he's the one that told us that. So this guy's an animal rights legend. Yeah, he went to prison for it, unfortunately, for years. But he's since been released and he stayed out of trouble. Without saying too much, was anyone in your circle alleged to have been involved in similar things? Well, I mean, I'm not even comfortable talking about the fight stories as a, As a dad. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 02:33:18 Sure, sure. But I will say this. You know, there are reasons why people took our band seriously from you. Beautiful. Say no more. Say no more. Yeah, that's a perfect answer. Are you still mad at Joste for trying to get you the shamrock shake?

Starting point is 02:33:37 No, I can forgive him. I can forgive him. He's been very good to Freya and Earth crisis over the years. Beautiful. Okay. Despite making me pull. weeds with his mom in his garden. Just to see the pygmies.

Starting point is 02:33:51 What is, in your experience, the worst experience you've had, somebody says, with people hating on veganism and or shredders, like the personal experience that sticks to you the most of just somebody not getting it? The dead mice were a bummer because I worried that somebody got the mice from a pet store and killed them or something. You know, so that was a bummer. And I hope that's not the case. I hope they just got taken out of some traps in somebody's grandma's attic or something.

Starting point is 02:34:20 Sure. Yeah, true. But that was pretty rough. Now, somebody asked, when it comes to activism, did you know you were setting a standard early? I don't know what that means. Like, you were setting the standard of like, hey, we're the band. This is what we believe we're out here doing it. Were there other bands around you doing the same thing?

Starting point is 02:34:42 I think that statement and raid and vegan Reich had similar views. views and street justice, similar views, but they did not score nearly to the extent that we did. They did not build the catalogs that we did. So I just, we got known more for it. Was influencing something that you were interested in? Yeah, like I said, I'm trying to literally build the tribe here. That was the message. Yeah. Beautiful.

Starting point is 02:35:07 Now, somebody said they're moving from the UK to the East Coast soon. What are some of your favorite cities and neighborhoods that are havens for vegan food? I mean, it's everywhere now. It's so widespread. You don't even need to worry. I mean, you just happy cow your way to Nirvana with vegan food. Are you playing in California anytime soon? I think we may be out there in October with a couple other bands.

Starting point is 02:35:33 We're putting something together now. Okay. There's a place right down the street from me, Carl. It's called El Cosenaro. It's a Mexican vegan place. Oh, wow. I'm going to take you. I might fuck your stomach up for a little a day.

Starting point is 02:35:45 but you're going to have some of the best stuff you've ever read. And when you guys come here, it doesn't matter what month it is, I want to be your tour guide in Syracuse for an episode of Hauntler. Because there is so many haunted spots and so many awesome legends within 45-minute drive. Really? Like, all within the county. Like, we could do it in a day and it would be a blast. And Carl, that of course means that you believe in ghosts, right?

Starting point is 02:36:12 I hope they're real. I think it would be fun. there we go. See, now I like that, but for me. Yeah. Wow. That's a good answer. That's a good answer. Yeah. You ever seen one? No. Not yet. Not that we come back.

Starting point is 02:36:27 Somebody asked some of your best or worst memories from the dark ages of veganism. So the peanut butter. That was the worst. Yeah. Melted peanut butter. So what's the inverse of that? What's the like, oh, I'm so happy we're here. It's 1995. Just probably any of the restaurants in New York City at the time that had vegan stuff. They were all awesome. Like did a Boca burger bring you to tears the first time?

Starting point is 02:36:56 Not me. Not me? No, I'm not that picky. Oh, okay, I got you. So you'd be happy with like stir fry vegetables? Well, no. Actually, I want to do a cookbook someday called Vegans Against Vegetables. Okay.

Starting point is 02:37:10 Wow. Well, vegans for scurvy, baby. I'll be right there with you. Let's get it. Dude, vegan for lab processed fake meat. That's... Where do you fall on that? How do you feel about lab...

Starting point is 02:37:23 He loves it. In favor. In favor. Because it's anything to decrease the impact on animals, right? That's right. Yeah. Okay. Because here's the thing, man.

Starting point is 02:37:33 I don't know more about anything than Bill Nye does, you know? Yeah. And he's the... proest GMO guy there is. Well, let's not argue with them. So I want my M's. Ode. I want my O's GM, I should say.

Starting point is 02:37:51 Yes. Okay. What is your all-time favorite vegan dessert? And where is it from? Oh. I mean, there's a place here called Strong Hearts and they have awesome cupcakes and stuff. So I put them there.

Starting point is 02:38:05 Have you ever had, Carl, the milkshake from the Chicago diner? I've been to Chicago Diner every time we're there. It's awesome. How good are those fucking those milkshers? He kept them in business for about eight years, I'm sure. Probably. I was just going to say the peanut butter cookie dough milkshake is

Starting point is 02:38:21 unfucking real. I'll try it. What is one band from the 90s that never got the recognition they deserved? Probably abnegation. Yeah, check down now. They're from abnegation. Yeah, the singer was a Tavemanian devil on stage. I love those.

Starting point is 02:38:41 I love those in cartoon form, so I can't... Right. Let's see. Let's see. This is a good last question. Where do you see the future of hardcore music? Sonically, thematically, lyrically, what do you want to see? What did you guys think of Tidedown Fest?

Starting point is 02:38:59 Let me ask you one question first. I love Tidedown. Loved it. Watched your whole set. Couldn't believe it. Had a blast all weekend. Yeah. I love Jimmy and Curtis and Mike so much.

Starting point is 02:39:11 Yeah, that is what I want the future hardcore to be. Perfect. They're going to love that. They're going to love that answer. But, I mean, I thought, I mean, I had a great time hanging out with everybody. Yeah. You know, and the show was awesome, the energy was awesome. It was really well run.

Starting point is 02:39:34 There was all kinds of bands. Yeah, that's what it needs to be. Beautiful. A diverse lineup. 2,000 kids going crazy. Yep. No fights, no injuries. It was a beautiful weekend.

Starting point is 02:39:47 Yeah. Totally agree. Great answer. Let's go out with one very important thing. Carl, what are your top four hardcore records of all time? Well, you know what they are, but we'll say it. We'll say it. Chrome Hades Age of Coral, Agnostic Front One Voice, Killing Time, Brightside, and Marauder Master

Starting point is 02:40:09 Killer. New York City, baby. Thank you. Thank you, Carl. Let's one more time. The unraveling, the Council of Crows will be out in stores. Earth Day. Probably near you, this Earth Day.

Starting point is 02:40:26 You are seeing the new creative endeavor. Yeah, hold that up. Is that the... This is the original manuscript. See that? And what this is is a short story that I wrote. years ago that I developed into a full-fledged story with my friends Jeremy and Keith. They brought all their creativity, all their devotion and drive to it.

Starting point is 02:40:51 And we would meet two to three times a week over the course of years. And we built my little story into a world that now is essentially going to be three books. That little story, though, was built. in your mind from a lifetime of vegan straight-edge activism. Yes. Yeah. So this is like this, this fantastical story about animals dismantling the,

Starting point is 02:41:21 the metaphorical and real machines is, is born out of, is somehow the truest. Yeah. Form of expression that I see here. This is the perfect kind of next chapter of the Earth crisis story. I think so, because, you know, this is a story that was designed for middle-aged readers.

Starting point is 02:41:46 It's, you know, it has action and adventure, but there is a lot of philosophy woven into the plot and the dialogue and the discussions between the characters. Wow. And it in some ways is a very unflattering portrayal reflection of how humans, have been a very destructive force against the natural world and against the animals. And maybe that's what we need. Yes, because more than being a condemnation, I want it to be corrective. You know, it's like the old saying, if you stand in somebody else's shoes, if you walk in somebody else's shoes, you'll understand them.

Starting point is 02:42:30 And it's from the perspective of these beings that have been abused or exploited. and hopefully it will verify why compassion is so important. Wow. And there you have it. That's a beautiful closing statement. Carl, we can't thank you enough for your time today. This was unbelievable. Gentlemen, thank you for your music.

Starting point is 02:42:55 My son pointed me to your bands. Wow. Hey, look at that. Amazing. And I have one question for you, Colin. were you when PATH played in California at that show? Yes. We know you.

Starting point is 02:43:13 Was that at the key club or something? Were you the guy that was fighting the two bouncers in the corner? No, I was probably 14 or 15. Okay, because it was a kid. And he got pulled out of the pit by two bouncers. And I remember he was in the corner and he was swinging and swinging and swinging at both these guys that were like, you know, two feet taller than him. And the bosses were looking at each other's smile.

Starting point is 02:43:39 They're like, yeah, this kid's got it. That might have been me. There was an incident at a murder fest that I think Earth Crisis or Path were playing. I think it was Path and fight everyone. I think it was you. Oh, that was me, man. Damn. That's awesome.

Starting point is 02:43:56 A plastic garbage can went flying, right? Oh, yeah. That happened all the time. But there was the singer of Fight Everyone came to my rescue. One of the singers of Fight Everyone came to my rescue. you at that show. And I'm sure he wouldn't mind me telling this. We don't have to put it in the thing if it gets anybody

Starting point is 02:44:12 No, this is awesome. This is like one of the coolest things I've ever seen was he had one of the guys that was trying to rough me up. He had him by like, he had long hair. Yeah. So he had a chunk of his hair in his hand and hit him so hard

Starting point is 02:44:27 that the chunk of hair remained in his hand. And the guy was on the floor while he had this giant chunk of He scalped him. He hit him so hard. He scalped him. So thank you. Thank you, Zach, for that. That was nice. That's crazy, man. Do you remember that? I had no recollection of that. Wow. I was like, I want that guy for the tribe. We need him. I've been in it ever since. I used to mosh my underwear to Path to Business. I was crazy. So I've been, I've been here, man. I'm telling you.

Starting point is 02:44:58 And kids got the fighting spirit. We need it. I do. Thank you. I appreciate that. Carl, this was beautiful. That was a fun note to end on. really, I got to do some critical thinking now. And tell your brother to rethink his verdict on the Earth Crisis versus Push Button Warfare. I will. So you would say Earth Crisis. No, but it just hurts the loose.

Starting point is 02:45:26 Doesn't it always? But thank you, Carl. This was incredible. Thank you all for listening. Earth Crisis, Freya, the Unravelling, the Council of Crows, Path of Resistance, There's so much of Carl's work out there for you to check out so much of it that we love. Thank you all for listening. Thank you all for watching.

Starting point is 02:45:43 We will see you next week. Bye.

HardLore - Karl Buechner (Earth Crisis)

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