HardLore - Malakai Black (AEW)

Episode Date: February 9, 2023

Colin and Bo sit down with All Elite Wrestling superstar, and the Keeper of the House of Black: MALAKAI BLACK. They discuss his music-fueled journey from spin-kicking hardcore kid in the Netherlands, to being NXT Champion during the company's "golden" era, to his eventual release and transition into forming the House of Black in AEW with Hardlore OG Brody King. Sit back and enjoy this rare insight into the mind of a hisortically mysterious and fascinating figure in the pro wrestling world. The House Always Wins! Get 20% OFF @manscaped + Free Shipping with promo code HARDLORE at MANSCAPED.com! #ad #manscapedpod Join WHATNOT with our special little link to get $15 off your first purchase. Get ready for the first ever Hardlore live auction at the end of February: https://www.whatnot.com/invite/hardlore   HardLore: A Knotfest Series, Fueled by Monster Energy Edited by Steven Grise • Title sequence by Nicholas Marzluf Join the HARDLORE PATREON to watch every single weekly episode early and ad-free, alongside exclusive monthly episodes. Join the HARDLORE DISCORD for community discussions and to participate in our future Q&A episodes. FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER, SPOTIFY, APPLE FOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAM FOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER   For sponsorship opportunities, email us! [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello, welcome. It's Hardlord Time. How you doing, Bo? So very good. What a very special episode we have for the people today. We really do. The highly anticipated by the hosts of this program, long awaited by the fans of the program. We have AEW superstar, the god of the House of Black. Malachi Black, how you doing, brother? Well, that's quite some intro, but I would say I'm the keeper of the House of Black. Not the God.

I think God is the house itself. I don't want to offend the house. We're 10 seconds in. We got a clip. You got corrected straight away. Gorgeous. How are we doing? Good, man.

It took us a second to get this one rocking and rolling. However, like I watched a few of the ones that you guys did. And I kept going like, fuck, I got to plant it in. I got to plan it in. And then obviously this life that, you know, me and obviously, you know, Brody King live is a continuous rotating cycle of unanticipated malarkey. And a lot of things kind of came in back and forth. And obviously, like, before we started recording, you know, I briefly touched on, like,

the new house and stuff like that. So on top of, like, being someone that is 24-7 on a standby basis, married to a person that is on 24-7 standby basis, being in a position where, you know, a new house is being, constructed and moving is slowly happening. I think we, yeah, we missed one good opportunity, but I'm glad that we're able to do it today. So pretty cool. Thank you so much for taking the time.

It's good to, I met you briefly with Brody before we got food and you introduced yourself as naked Tom because you had just gotten back into your room and we're getting ready. So it's good, sexy. Formally meet you a little bit and we appreciate you taking your time. Absolutely, not a problem. Let's talk shop here because, You know, this is a touring base.

That's the touring and music are the heart of the show, but we're big wrestling guys as well. You're now the fourth AEW guy we've had on the show. The fourth hardcore adjacent AEW. You can make an incredible band out of AEW action figures now. That is very, that is very, very true. It's a very true. I would like to know what kind, what came first,

for you. Music or wrestling? That's a really good question. I mean, the logical answer, obviously, would be music. The logical answer in terms of like cognitive responding to it was music. I first saw wrestling. Now, mind you, I grew up in Amsterdam in that ones

and wrestling was a blimp, if not even less than a blimp in the societal norms of life in Amsterdam. But I remember sitting with my dad on the couch. And we had New Japan on TV, which was quite of a blessing because we had a channel called Euro Sport.

And for some people, that might sound familiar. For some people not, but that was more typically, obviously Euro sport being in Europe broadcasted. And they would have the older WWF, but more predominantly, they had New Japan for a while. So I grew up watching New Japan. And sitting with my dad on the couch, interesting enough, the first thing I did see was a WWF small little clip. My dad was flicking channels

and he flicked on it and it was something with Yokozuma and the million dollar man. And it just grabbed my attention. But it was three seconds because my dad is not a Bucing fan. So he just kind of like, my dad likes football and tennis and stuff like that. But he's flicking through the channel and he sees it and he kind of like, I think he was kind of trying to figure out what it was. And then after he did, he just kind of kept flicking. But for me, those three seconds were like, wait, what's that? And then the New Japan came. But almost at the same time, my brother was friends with a guy named Bart, which was basically the local metalhead.

And my brother was always someone who was very much into more like 70s, 80s type music, but guitar music and stuff. And Bart was very much into Iron Maiden and Metallica and stuff. So he took home this little A track that they recorded. from like all the other albums. You know how it went, you know, you put your microphone at the... And then you press play.

You don't talk, you know, I mean? Stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. And he brought that home, and I remember the first song that I ever heard was Running Free by Iron Maiden. And it just, there was something about it where it was like, you know, you hear that...

You hear that drama. And it just kind of took me and then the little guitar comes in. And it's just like, it was just something so different for me. And then he always made a point to tell me, hey, don't look at the album covers. Don't look at the album covers. Don't look.

look at the album covers. So then obviously if you're a kid, what are you going to do? You're going to look at the album covers. So I remember seeing Killers, the album cover and I see Eddie standing in with the, you know, with the knife and stuff like that and the woman. So, you know, the, the aesthetic of that also really spoke to me. And it was, it was just something different because, you know, it was very hush, hush, you know, the medalist, medalist for, for, for crazy people. And, you know, it's frowned upon. And I was always kind of like more into, like, I think the word extremities is kind of like a bit too hyperbole, but I was definitely always drawn into things that were not the typical nine-year-old way of thinking.

I like the alternative things. I liked the different type of aesthetics. I like stuff that was non-mundane and not that there was anything wrong with it. It just, I wasn't drawn to it. You're kidding. You? I gave it away. So based on that, so the music and a rustling,

kind of, in a way, came simultaneous, but the music inspired what the wrestling did, if that makes any sense. So for me, they go hand in hand because I think that's also like, look, you guys are musicians, but you have a keen interest in wrestling. I'm a wrestler. I have a keen interest in music. There's something very coinciding about the baseline of entertainment that thrives in, and music and art and professional wrestling. It kind of like this, like this weird connection. that we'll always have. And whether that it's just the entrance music or the idea that we're touring,

just like you guys are touring, we create things for an audience that we play to them and the audience responds to it and connects to it. See, there's like so many little things about music and wrestling that kind of coincides, and I think that's why musicians are drawn to wrestling and wrestlers are drawn to music

because I cannot do my road trips without my music. I cannot do my, my, my, match fixations without music. And I think for you guys, wrestling would be, if I'm not mistaken, a great way for you guys to kind of like, okay, I got to not think about us of music for a while. Let me zone out. Let me get some inspiration. Let me, you know, because I think that aesthetics can also inspire notes, if that makes sense. Absolutely. I think if you see something and you're drawn to it from an art perspective, it gives you an idea. And the same thing it does with me, I see something or I hear something. And it makes me go, wait a minute, I can use XYZ, XYZ. And I think, think it's also one of the reasons why I'm always been a bit compulsive about like what I present to the world. And I'm hands on to the point that I have to learn how they're not the hands on because it's starting to piss people off. But, you know, I think, I think all of us understand respect and appreciate the dedication that comes with both music and wrestling and any

type of art for us to kind of like really sink our teeth in and having an audience digested. I mean, the way you just described discovering both things. was the same experience for both of them. You saw and heard this larger than life thing. Yes. These things you don't see every day. And you're like, I'm going to, I have no choice but to follow this. Yeah.

And we talk about all the time that there's so many parallels between extreme music is to the rest of music, what wrestling is to the rest of sports. We just said that. Yeah. It's a real thing. I think it's a great way of looking at it. I agree. It's very much... We pull theatricality from wrestling

and put that into our performances and shit because live performances, the music is secondary now, you know? All the Grammy nominees yesterday, I haven't heard to sing one of those records, but I know they got confetti guns, you know? Yeah.

They got all the gimmets. I don't want to, like, jump around too much, I guess, but since you're getting into wrestling at this time in your life, and we were talking, you were saying that you are very hands-on. That's something that to me even as like an outsider, even before I knew Brody.

And when I knew you from before House of Black stuff, he was like, this seems like a guy who really cares about like creative control and like everything that he's doing and being hands-on. And I, there is a certain parallel with that with music as well, where there are bands who I mean like Kyle you're a great example of that I'm a sick fuck with that

yeah yeah had a camo designed just for gotte so I have that by the way I have that so where like where did that did that come organically from you that obsession or was that something that was like

oh I think it would just work better this way and you just tried it no so this is a bit of a complex answer, and I have to think about formulating it. So the way that I grew up, everything for me made sense once I figured it out. And now you say, yeah, that's obvious. But a lot of people will do things and never ask themselves why they're doing it. Why am I working this way? Why am I saying these things? Why am I feeling this way when I say these things? My background is a lot of martial arts. I go from Muay and kickboxing and stuff like that.

And obviously, you see that back in my style. But in order for me to get, where I need to be, I need to figure out why. Why do I want this style? Why did I do martial arts? Why does it work this way? I have to literally unwrap every little fiber of what I do, write it down so I can rebuild it. If you look at my style, for instance, I'm going to take one thing, if I, just a rare body back kick, right? Just a regular kick to the chest. That's like it would be named in pro wrestling. There is a significant difference. in me doing it versus any other striker. And the reason is, and the difference is this.

I can kick you aesthetically so incredibly hard or make it at least appear to look like I'm beating the everlasting shit out of you, but I'm not touching you. It's because I have broken down every part and ounce of that technique and rebuild it in a way that it makes sense from my body to move this way because what it is that I do is I present violence to an audience. to an audience. I present a violence style

that needs to look realistic. But I have to do it in a way that I do not completely demolish my opponent because at the end of the day, pro wrestling is what pro wrestling is. It doesn't mean that I come in like a feather, but I have so much control over my body from years and years and years of doing martial arts

and years of years of training and deconstructing my training while being hands-on so that I completely understand what it is that I'm presented. presenting inside the ring within like the physicality that I that I bring. And a lot of strikers that I wrestle or that I've seen their kicks look great, but it's also because they're really, really laying it in so goddamn thick.

And I can see guys coming back with like, oh, yeah, those were, those were rough. Whereas with me, the majority of the response is like, how the fuck do you do that? Like you kick me square in the head and I need to feel a thing, you know? And like, doesn't mean that it's never happened that I, you know, you know, because like, I'd say out of a hundred strikes, maybe one or two will land land because it's still like, you know, you're working in a realm where unexpected things happen. But to circle back around to, you know, what your original question is because I've had success with deconstructing and being hands on.

It's very difficult for me to let the rope go, especially when I inside, like, for my every being know what I have to say, do or think, or present to the world for it to make sense. and that has more oftentimes not than is been presented. So a lot of things that may appear from a rate of like succession without sounding super arrogant could have been grandeur, could have been more polished, could have been, you know what I mean? Because I also work in a situation with people where I work for someone and that person with every right of their being has a say and has to say, Tom, I want it this way.

Okay, you're the boss. You know what I mean? Doesn't mean that I'm always right. Doesn't mean that I'm always right. However, I know. You're always going to care. What's that? You're always going to care in a way that.

Because I care what the audience consumes when seeing me. And I know how to present myself and I know how to present others. Brody being a big example of that because I have fought tooth and nail to, keep him as non-damaged in appearance as possible because he's a psychopathic-looking human being that is capable of having a heart of gold, but certainly capable of being an incredibly violent, nasty bastard. And I needed to, like, pull that out of him in a way that it bordered people going, man, this dude, I don't know, I don't know what, I don't know what is with this dude, but everything he does is legit. And it's, of course, his style, his town. It is real. That's the thing is we can tell you on record

it's real. Yes, 100%. Nothing, nothing. Nothing what what Brody does is fake. And I wanted that to be presented to the world. So certain things, he would come to me and say, hey, what do you think if I, you know, do this and this or this and this person? I said, like, well, you know, it would present XYZ. And in the beginning, I think him and me had a little bit more back and forth on it. But I think as time progressed. He not only found his own way with how I wanted him to be presented and now knows how to get it on. I feel like once it started really paying off, he started going, okay, no, I see what you're doing. And because he's so talented, he caught onto it. And he realized that instead of like a guy his size hitting someone four or five times, you can give him one good

elbow and just tell the guy, hey, stay down. Yeah. Because it would have more impact than him hitting, like a guy his size hitting someone half the size four or five times. You know what I mean? And it's all these kind of like little details. Nuance. Yeah. It's that because you want to keep people protected. You want to keep people nuanced, like you said, you want to keep people special. And that's what I've always wanted with Nate is for people to look at him as special

because I've always been presented as special too. And I know how that, you know, that deconstruction and construction on both ends work. Sure. So, you know, he brought the talent. He brought all the potential in the world that I already saw when he first started. And he needed a few tweets. And now he is what he is. And I think he's doing an absolutely phenomenal job.

And I couldn't have a better attack partner. Yeah. Yeah. He's a monster. We're there already. I think we were going to do this chronologically. But like, it was pretty, it was pretty incredible to watch in real time within the table group chat, the Kings of the Black Throne slash House of Black kind of come together in

real time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was a fun process, frustrating, but it was also a lot of fun. I just, you know, I like what it is that we do because it's so different. And it's like it covers a layer of society that a lot of people, you know, perhaps not actively think about. But it is something that I absolutely think is worth presenting, you know, kind of looking at the deeper underbelly of, like, humanity and kind of going like, well, you know, human beings are horrible and you can disagree, but we at least embrace it. Now you need to embrace it. And if you like us, you'd for us that you're a rotten piece of shit and that you're violent, you're violent by design. And that's okay because you can't fight your nature, you know? And I think Brody

fits that so perfectly, buddy fits that perfectly. Julia, especially because she's so different from that, from what she first was to, you know, where she's transformed in, you know, it makes in a, in the most unexpected ways. And because it's so unexpected, it makes the most sense, you know? People, people like that arc, because it's, it's, the last thing that they would have expected. So it's, therefore, it's like, it's, it's one of the coolest things, especially the success rate of it for him from that perspective. I mean, and then the first thing you, you thought of when putting this together was like, okay, I can I can get my friend's jobs now,

which is pretty like, not just Nate, but like you guys had me write your song. And now that's, now I got six in the tank, you know? And that's just because you guys brought me in. Yes, I was about to say. And that's obviously, that's, that's a big coercion as well,

obviously on the part of, on Nate and stuff as well. Like, I can't take full credit on that because that was a collective. But we were just, just kind of like, and I remember and like Nate's words, like, Nate's going, I think we should keep it into family. And I was like, I 100% agree.

I think that's what we should do. And I think it's such an organic, you know, cooperation between you and us, that we've created some, well, you created it. I just kind of said, hey, let's do this. And you created it. You've guided me. But it was funny because I think,

I think the last theme song that, that you did the house of black one there's this massive easter rake and you already know exactly what i'm talking about i do that i um that i felt that was such and when i told you that i was driving in the middle of the night listening and going like what can we put in there i was literally just i got in my car and it was like like 12 30 in the morning and i was just driving around i'm going fuck what can we put in there and then all of a sudden i go wait that would make that would make so much sense given the nature of my character and given the nature of what it is that we do and basically um i asked colin i said dude can you add like a real life exorcism in the beginning of that song and he's like say no more

i think that was verbatim my response yeah yeah 100% and um he actually said the beginning of that song is actual audio of an actual exorcism playing through the entire arena. And I think it gives such a layer of this like, it's just terrified. And obviously now when this comes out, people are going to go, wait, what? Now they're going to listen for it. The tens of thousands of people we've subjected to like exorcism. Exorcism audio, they're going to be so pleased. Yeah, like actual demonic sounding voices.

And I think there's a right. It's a right, isn't it? Yeah. It was, I forget the source of the audio where I found it. It was somebody speaking like perfect Latin. Yeah. Who did not speak Latin. Wow.

Yes. It was terrifying. It's very, really, really scary. But I just felt that it did. Yeah, you were like, I just had to pull over and turn it off. It's too scary. I'll listen to it tomorrow. I did.

I'm driving in the car again because he sends it to me. And again, like, I'm a big midnight guy due to surprise of no one. So again, I started driving around. He sends it to me. And he like, he like, I click it on. I just hear that. But it's like, oh, God, God, this is fucking terrifying. So I'm like, I have to switch it up because it was really fucking scary.

So, yeah, that's kind of how that came to be. But, you know, again, to come back to the original thing, I think, sorry, that's my phone. No problem. I think for something is something that we do, we need people to understand that side of life, that sign of like humanity and like you know that again that nitty gritty underbelly where a lot of you guys's music is coming from from from like you know at the the deepest darkest crevices of your heart and your mind and your soul that's where it comes from and that's why we have that connection again to circle back to music and that's why we need musicians like you guys to do it because you translate

what we feel because we feel what you feel and I think that's what makes it so unique not to mention Colin that you and your brother are in literally every hardcore band in the world I've recently figured out. There's literally not one band that I've listened to where you did somehow hit your at your little fingers involved in it. I was listening to. I was going to say harm's way, but then I remember there's some fingers. I'm thinking of harm's way. Exactly. There's like there's like it's almost like you can't help yourself. Like I was listening to God, what was I? Was I listening to? I want to say it's, was it momentum? Maybe. I mean, my brother recorded that.

that makes sense. That might have been. I'm listening to it. And I like every once in a while, I'll throw some stuff up on Instagram or like what I'm currently listening. And then and then Brody King texts me. He's like, yeah, that band is so fucking dope. And I was like, yeah, man.

He's like, did you know? And he just starts telling me that you, like either you, like your brother was involved. And I was like, yeah, like that makes sense because he's in every fucking hardcore band in the world. I'm pretty sure that like if I, if I, you know, if I talk to the guys from knock loose, I go, you know, at one point. talk to Colin and it was like, yeah, sure, why not? I think somehow you're involved with literally every band in the world.

That's the goal. That's the conspiracy. That's the goal. I'm like a fungus. I'm trying to spread, you know? I have a question about, and we can get back into music, because I want to know how you got into hardcore, but real quick, while we're still kind of talking about what you're currently doing, you've always had cool entrances, which I think is like really important.

Yes. For any wrestler, especially a wrestler of like dark-sided things. Agreed. When you, I was at one of the earlier times where like you had, it was the Amman Ra song. Yes. I still have that. Yeah. My single entrance is Amun Ra.

Yeah. Lights go off and then you, you know, you kind of transport to the ring. when like I'm sure that has been done before in some fast or whatever I don't know every entrance ever did was that you did yes you knew you wanted to do that yeah so the idea behind the entrance is a cycle it's the it's the it's the sun up rise it's from dust till dawn basically so the idea is that when you first see me the sun rises up behind and then as I'm progressing it cuts back and then I'm on the turnbuckle so then the sun is at the hot sorry I'm like I'm drinking monster so I'm sitting on turnbuckle

So the sun is at its highest peak. And then when I sit in the ring, there's moonlight. So it's like, it's like a cycle of time because the idea behind it is that everything is always a full circle. Everything comes to an end. So as well as that my entrance starts and finishes, my match will start and finish the day will fin, you know, it's a little bit of a math. It's just like life, but I like the idea of it being a cycle, you know, to give it,

to give it some meaning. But that was the idea behind the, um, the entrance. And every time we've used red and I know that we've used red, and I know that we've used read a lot lately, but the initial part of using the red was to signal change within me, within my move said within like the realms, because like red, you know, is the color of blood, DNA, growth, like a new life, et cetera. Everything comes from, you know, from, you know, blood is the life to quote Dracula. You know, so there's, there's a few things here and there. And there's more that, like, I just feel for myself are important to, like, present to an audience.

And not always necessarily having to explain them, but making people go, wow, that's different. Why, that's unique. You know, and there's also a large portion of people that go like, I don't, I don't fuck with it. That's fine. You don't have to. You get it. You get it. You don't.

That's fine. This is another one of those things where it's like, like, Colin, I'm sure you've opened up the, I think it's so deep and hard where it's like, Peter, axes, iron, like all like the, just like all like the shit, druid, whatever all the shit is, you know? And you're just like, you're like learning. It's like the same kind of thing where it's like. It's all lore, baby. It's all lore.

And that's exactly why this works. Yeah. Yeah. There's a video by a gentleman. God, what's his name? I actually started following him on Twitter when he made the video. And I've talked about this video quite a few times because I was so impressed by it. He made this 20-minute video on the lore of Alistair slash Malachi Black.

And for about 80, 85%, he was able to decipher everything that I did. And also, you know, my social media, how I tied in and all of a sudden, yeah, I posted some stuff that had a reference to Odin to kind of talk about the eye. But I wouldn't post Odin, but it was more something that had to do with. And he was able to bridge that. And I was like, crack the code. I'm like, damn, dude. And I thought I was like hiding some stuff pretty goddamn low. And he was just like, and I mess with him because, you know, the thing is like, that's all I've ever wanted.

It's like, I want to give you something that you can later on, you know, decipher and later on you can, you know, even the way that we brought Brody in, I had this idea of tying Jupiter into into Brody's appearance. because the back back when they were still gods and stuff they they um they Jupiter and Saturn basically represented that you're will you will suffer eternally until you learn so learning is suffering and that was in the month month of January at that exact time so it was the perfect month for a guy like Brody King who embodies like you know violence and stuff like that and to have representation for those gods being, you know, learning through violence and suffering and having him come out, it was like the perfect blend of chaos.

And it happened on the exact day. And I was just like, ah, it played out. It exactly how I want to play out. It's literally aligned. Yes, literally, literally. And, you know, stuff like that is just like, for me, it's just very, very cool to be able to tie in like a lot of like, like European folklore and ancient rights, ancient burial rights and stuff like that,

and just stuff that happen in and around like the lowlands of like, you know, thousands of years ago on my own country and stuff and, you know, where we're all descendant from, you know, to curse me as a European and stuff. To kind of bring that with me and present that to the world, same with the masks and stuff, it's just very cool to kind of have that and like play it out and not. people not realizing how much goes behind it and then hopefully not 10, 15 years later going,

like, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let me look at an entrance again. Wait, what did he do? What did his hands do? Why was his lens red him this time? Hey, oh, he did the mist. Wait, why is that?

Why was the eye read initially when he did the mist? What was that about? You know what I mean? So stuff like that and like tying months and weeks and like all sorts of like astrology stuff to it. And like I said, lore, rituals, rights. Nothing is an accident with the things you're doing. No, no, no, no.

And there's sometimes you're just stuff where I'm like, yeah, no, that's just cool. Yeah, yeah, of course. Sometimes it's just cool, like the stuff that we're doing right now that's like going on in the, in the chat that I can't, you know, talk about too much. Something that me and Brody were cooking up, which is going to be very, very cool. You'll see it, but it's very, very cool and has a lot of like different meanings. And, you know, we've done it in a way, but now it's so amplified. you know, it sounds kind of like, what the F is he talking about? That's the exact, but you'll see it.

Once you see it, you know, exactly. I think that's what he's talking about. But, you know, and we just kind of keep fabricating little, little layers. And, you know, I try to keep notes because eventually my idea is also to bring out this book that I call the black book, where all the notes are in and all, like, the ideas are in and just kind of like put some poetry in there, put some artwork in there and just bring out something that's just different, you know? Like, I want wrestling to transcend and just being. I jump in the ring, I beat some dudes up.

And, you know, it kind of gives my mind something to do as well, my heart as well, which is good. I mean, the wrestling, much like music again, as we're going to keep comparing it, the things that work the best are the things that remember that there are really no rules creatively with what you can do. There are not. The more interesting, the more uniquely you present an idea, the better it's going to work. It might take a second to get over playing with music. You talked about bringing like Dutch folklore into the character into wrestling in general. I'm sure very young getting over in America that was the goal to,

which eventually you got to be the first Dutch world champion. Yes. I have to imagine that was pretty special. Yes. So there's been. how do I word this special? Yes, very much so. But the thing for me as well is I'm very much like,

okay, now that you're standing in it, don't let it consume you kind of person. Because in the long run, it doesn't matter anything. Right now, make the best of what you have. Yes, you have this, but don't let it control. Don't let this be the, well, I've done that. So guys, I'm good. You know, kind of thing.

And that's, I feel that's something that, as like wrestlers or artists or athletes, I feel that can be a death trap. Sure. So yes, it was very special. I absolutely adore my days in NXT. I will hold them dearly for, you know, the rest of my life. But it definitely did come with some complications

because the WV especially at that point, I want to argue without trying to sound like an arrogant asshole, that that period of NXT to 2017 to 2020 was the best NXT has ever been. I feel like we, yeah, I feel like we have the wrestling world on fire. I feel that we had the wrestling world. We were, we were the blueprint for how it should have been done for a long time. And I think, I think we made a lot of people better. And I think we made a lot of people go, I want to go there. I want to be in that group of guys. And the reason why that group of guys was

special is because we were all competing with each other, but we all loved each other. We all had respect. Anyone from like, you know, my wife, you know, who was part of like, you know, the whole thing with Andrade and Adam Cole, Kylo Riley, Bobby Fish, Roder Strong, Tomaso, Johnny. And, you know, you have to say it, Velveteen at the time, of course, all, you know, they were all like integrated Viking Raiders, a ricochet, Matt Riddle, you know, like, it was, it was this group of guys that for years was on the Indies and just grinding away, grinding away. to then all be scooped up and put in front of guys like Terry Taylor, Robbie Brookside, Norman Smiley, Sean Michaels, Triple H, Matt Bloom,

and just having their minds like fucking, you know, molded into like, this is what we want you guys to do. Now, I will also say one of the biggest changes came when they did Tyler Bade versus Pete Dunn, which is, in my opinion, still one of the best matches that Nasty's ever hosted. Those two had phenomenal match. I think both of them are extremely talented guys. I'm glad that they're still so young and they can still go so long. But I remember they had that match,

and I remember very vividly, Sean Michaels going, okay, what are we teaching people? Are we teaching people what we're doing or are we doing that? Because I want to do that. And that is kind of how a lot of it kind of like, because we were pushing that narrative for a while where we just kind of went like, no, let us do what we do. And slowly, but surely they kind of let the ropes go now,

and I will have to say one thing, you know. I'm making it sound like, you know, it was just us, no, because we needed the revivals. We needed the Wesley Blakes and the Buddy Matthews and the Finn Ballers and the Baron Corbyons to kind of set all of that up so that we, you know, organically, Samishinsky, you know, we could, we could inherit what they gave us and then, you know, take it to the next level. I will never not give those guys their props because those dudes worked their asses off because I feel that they changed the level too.

And like, I feel like those are all. all the marquee names now. Yes. Amongst all companies. Exactly. And it was just like us, they're basically going like, we're going to give you this,

take care of it. And initially it was, of course, like a little bit of a drop because, you know, a lot of the loved names go up to the main roster. And like here you have guys like myself

and Johnny and Tomas. And not so much Johnny and Thomas because they were already on NXT for like a year at that point. But like Damien Mackle, sanity, you know, like Alexander Wolfe, Eric Young, that and not Eric Young, but the rest of us were relatively unknown for a larger audience.

Yes, we were known on the independence scene, especially in Europe and stuff, but no one knew who we, who we like were to an more American audience. Now, the NXT audience was obviously a lot more into like wrestling, wrestling. You know, they would look at the independence. So it was a little easier. But again, I just feel that, like, you know, those years, especially at the 2018, like start of 2018, I feel like we really did something special. And for two, three years, we had pay-per-views that created some of the best moments, best storylines. And it was just like, and I, there's actually one guy that I have to give props. And me and my wife were talking about yesterday, Joe Belcastro, the writer for NXT. I think, I think for a lot of people,

a relatively unknown name because he wasn't a wrestler, but he was. the writer, the head writer of Annextee, and him and Hunter and Sean and Matt and Terry, they created so many incredible storylines and, you know, it was all them. And Joe, in my book, was one of the best story writers.

He actually has a book out now, and the book is really good. Is he still with WWB? No, no, he's been long gone from WB. But he was an important part of why NXT was a success. And, you know, also the writing team that we had.

That whole era of NXD was just the perfect storm. It was just the perfect storm of like the right guys being in the right spot, doing the right things, having the right people to lead them. And the fan base was incredible. You know what I mean? To circle back this very long conversation to your original thing. Yes, it was very special, but it wasn't just special because it was me, especially because it was everyone else that helped the belt before me

and allowed me to create a platform where I could, ultimately, you know, gave the belt. I never really felt good about my title run because I felt that it was a little premature. But when I lost the belt to Tomaso, funny enough, that's the moment where I got super comfortable. And I was like, all right, yes, let's fucking go. Right. I was already comfortable in the point of like having comfortability in my ability because like the night I wrestle Velveteen, I basically said to Hunter, I said, just let me do it.

Let me do it my way. If you hate it, here's your ropes back. You can do it and I'll do whatever you want, but please, I know that I can, because I wasn't really happy with my debut. I wasn't really happy with Ambeds against Hideo. And it was me, not them. It was me.

I wasn't happy with myself. I think they're, you know, Ken, come on. You know what I mean? Like, it's, yeah, it was, it was me predominantly. And I knew what it was, is that I was trying to cater too much what I think they wanted me to do. And they kept going like, no, we don't want that. We want you to do you,

but then we're still trying to like micromanage things that I was doing. So I just basically said, Hunter, please just let me do me. I will, you know, and, you know, the match with, with Velveteen is obviously what it was. And it was a great payoff match. And after I came back, Hunter was like, okay, you're good. You do what you want to do. I fully understand it now.

And, you know, it takes time to kind of build up that relationship with people. And when they gave me the title, I kind of felt like, oh, I feel this is a little too soon. You know what I mean? But rating-wise, it wasn't. Merch-wise, it wasn't. But I just felt personally, I was like, I wish they would have. So Tomaso took the belt, and I was actually supposed to win it back in that three-way that was supposed to happen between myself, Johnny and Tomaso.

I got injured. And obviously we ran with the Johnny who done it storyline, which I still love. I love wrestling Johnny so much that he's such an incredibly talented individual. I think one of my absolute favorite matches was with him was that war games pay-per-view were I wrestled him. And then I had my match with Tomaso, which was back for the belt in January. I think it was NXT Phoenix 2020, I want to say, 2019. No, 2020.

I think it was 2020. It's about two months before I moved out to the main roster. And I'm really proud of that match in particular because it was one of the matches where I think it was like 35 minutes, but it was me selling my leg and everything I did had like, like, had like an impact on my leg. And I was just really proud of the of the, of the, of the, the bill towards like selling that particular like having to find creative ways to like do things while still selling, you know, presenting that my leg was was, was, was, was, you know, was incapacitated. And it was just a lot of things about that NXTI are where I feel like I really

own my skills. I really felt like, no, I'm on the, I'm on the money. And that's kind of, you know, propelled me to, you know, where I am now, but I couldn't have done it with all about the other guys. Absolutely. Is there, do you have a, a big four of guys? I was going to say the exact same thing. Guys that are still there that you need to wrestle one more time. That are still there? That are still WWNXT adjacent. Where you're like, no matter fucking what, I'm wrestling this guy one more time. One more time or just in general? In general, is great. Okay.

So number one, Roman, 100%. I don't care what people think. I think he's on, I think he's, and I think that actually, the thing is like, I say that, but I think everybody agrees. Like, Roman is like, Rome's the man. Yeah. And not just from a company point of view or like carrying the heavyweight belt,

just as a performer, that he's, he just, he just knows it. He just, you know, he's just, he's crazy good. and Seth is another one. I always hate that my matches with Seth, apart from one war in the PC era. And him and me always talked about, man, if we were just have a bigger platform, a mania match, a pay-per-view match in front of an audience, we tear it out. Because I absolutely adore Seth Valens.

And I think that he is, people don't appreciate how well and good and how not nuanced years. I have learned so much from talking to Seth Rollins and like wrestling him and he would like give me so much advice and how to present character stuff and like these little nitty details that he does just incredible stuff.

I, um, he's one of them. Obviously Johnny and Tomaso, of course. You know, that's just, um, you know, I mean, I don't really know if I have a big four. I have a big whole, a whole bag of people that I want to wrestle. Um, but if I,

and that was a very big four. you just. Yeah, well, I'll give you one more person and this is not something that would ever happen in WB unless like, you know, that part changes, but Oscar. Man. Wow.

What an answer. And we've spoken about it too. Wow. We've had that conversation. And she would love to... You two just kicking the shit out of each other? Oh, yeah. She's great. Where do I pay? I'll tell you right now. Where do I put... She would give me the fight

my life. Wow. That's so cool. She is unmatched, unrivaled. You heard that response at Rumble, right? Oh my God. Yes. Yeah. She is every bit as good as people think she is. She is every bit as deserving as people think she is. She is phenomenal. And also last one, and this might sound funny, I want to compete against my wife. That's awesome. For two reasons. Number one, because she's my life. Number two, my wife, in my opinion, other than having a few matches with us, and I don't want to sound biased because we're married, but I know who she was before she came to WB. Sure. My wife, in my opinion, has not had the role to really prove herself. And, you know, she's been injected in a match here and a match there.

You know, she had those two good matches with Oscar that people, unfortunately, because it was in the pandemic era, don't really like, you know, talk about it anymore. But there is a certain like comfortability that people get when they watch and wrestle several times a week. Same way as if you play six shows a night, six shows a week, you get really into the group of things. You can fuck around on stage and you're feeling it. But if you do one show a month, you're like, oh, fuck, I hope I don't, you know what I mean? And the same goes, again, same goes for wrestling. So my wife being like interjected in and out of matches, which is, you know, that's just the nature of the business. that happens.

I feel like Rumble was a good little thing. And then the mask that she had on TV a couple days ago, you know, was also like, you know, again, like give her more of that. I guarantee you that in the span of six months,

you're going to get a completely different woman that does things that you've never seen a woman do, especially her size because she's trained. Yeah, she's in crazy shape. Oh, yeah. She's fucking shred. We're on the hammer at the moment. Like, you know,

I think people. don't realize that she was trained by Amazing Red. That's her cousin. They trained and she can do everything that Red does. She just never really has a platform to show it. And he was one of the guys that defined this whole era. He was, Red doesn't get enough props. Agreed. Like, and same with Loki, you know, those dudes, like they created that like, let's say that video game style of like professional wrestling where all of a sudden the boundaries just kind of went out at the door. Same with Genta. Genta was one of those guys that he was a kickboxing, like did moitai. And I remember in 2005, when I first saw him, it made me go, oh, so I can do that too

with my style. And that's how I started thinking about like, you know, incorporating like wet catches and like, you know, like repost with teeps and and then arm catches. And like I started going like really back into like my kickboxing and my boy tie and going, I can do this. I can do that. I can do this. And that's kind of how that style for me progressed as well. And that's how I come up with still different things because I translated. But I digress my wife. I love that answer. And with what you said in mind with like keeping your chops up wanting to wrestle three, five, six times a week, does that excite you for AEW moving into house shows? Yes, because it was at my request. For the better of the roster. Really? It was at my request. And before people take a run with this, it was at my request

that were doing live events. And initially he was like, maybe, and I kept hammering out on it. And others started chiming into him and like we need to do live events and eventually he told me about was it four or five months ago when i sat down with them he basically said like we're going to start doing live events in 2020 and that was like put me on him because huge i love there's nothing more fun than live events because you can interact with the crowd and i think that a lot of young guys that are coming through now that need to learn how to work for cameras and like learn how to get comfortable in front of an audience in a way of that they don't forget about like, hey, take it read or let it, let people, give people the

opportunity to process what it is that you just did. And that doesn't mean stand still do nothing. But, you know what I mean? It's all these like little, little things that I think that a lot of the younger kids in that locker room are now going to be able to get, you know, pick up and get better because that's the only way you're going to get better. Same with music. The only way you get better is by doing it. And that same is with wrestling. I was just going to say something that we'll do a lot is like when you're on your way to join up with a bigger tour you'll do some routing shows and it's just kind of getting the reps in. Oh really?

Yeah. Interesting. I never knew that, but it makes total sense. It's the same principle. So I, I've said this before in the show, but I just for the conversation sake, I was into wrestling during like the attitude era. That's like when I grew up watching it. Yeah.

Being there kind of fell out of it during the like the ruthless aggression era, I suppose. this one that all started. Yeah, yeah. And I really didn't get back into it until, kind of until COVID, because I had a ton of time. I wasn't touring, maybe even a little bit before that, mostly because of Brody, honestly, just because it was like, oh, my friend is doing this crazy shit. I became aware of you. Yeah.

Because Code Orange and our friend Brendan played you out with this cool entrance. So what I wanted to know, and immediately that was like barrier breaking for my brain because I had no idea outside of Brody that anyone was into like actual hardcore. Yeah. And who would reach out to Code Orange and brand like incendiary and, you know, have them play them out. I mean, for the longest time, the only representation of like hardcore we had on screen at WWB was like punk. And then if Mosh and Thrasher were wearing a fucking typo shirt. Anthrax or typo shirt.

Yeah. And now we got big Tom, baby. There we go. Yeah, so the connection between myself and Code Orange was a WDV setup. So the guys from Cold Orange are actually big wrestling fans, and they used to come and watch me at Evolve, and I had no idea. And then we did download, and they asked me, hey, do you want to introduce Code Orange? It was still playing like a smaller state.

It's crazy, right? Then you think about that because now they're like, Grammy playing, like having, you know, big time, massive artists that collaborate with so many, like, like, you know, big artists and stuff. And, but at the time, they were playing one of the smaller, not the smallest, but one of the smaller venues at Download. But they, you know, they just had that connection with WV. So I met the guys backstage. I had a great conversation. I absolutely love all of them. They are awesome humans. And, friends of the show. Oh, dude, they're, you know, I have a lot of love for, for, for those. for those kids. They are absolutely great. Introduced them. It was a cool little connection. And then a couple of months later, the

pay-per-view came. And Hunter was like, what do you think about being played out to the crowd? I'm like, what do you mean? Well, we got Code Orange. We got, you know, we got Brandon from Incendiary who does your, who does your track anyway. Would you like, you know, would you like to have them perform your song live? I'm like, that'd be insane. He's like, yeah, the last person ever be played out at the time. I think, I think he was said was him. I'm not sure if that's was it was it was was it was

that had the performance by motorhead or was it it was right that was the last time it was yeah so um but metal band because I'm assuming that they have flow writer at some point play on rappers I mean that's way cheaper to do yeah yeah um so you know they he was like you know we want to do that and that's kind of you know it was just a very cool little apps of fucking looting you know it was so

cool was such a I'm really thankful for WDB giving me so many of these like you know unique moments and and and and and and and allowing me to just do all this like stuff and you know on the subject of hardcore and and and just based let's say this let's call it just alternative music yeah um because I would never consider myself to be a strictly hardcore kid or anything like like that I don't think anyone anything anyone would would assume that I am um but for me I felt that when I came to the WWE. They didn't really have anyone that really was involved in the scene, like the way I was involved in the scene

because I was still going to, like, small venues and seeing local bands and fucking shit up with my friends sitting in vans and, like, helping them set up and then completely wrecked the goddamn stage of every little small part that they were playing in, you know what I mean? And, you know, like, you know, we hung out, like, you know, the Dutch heart scene isn't a very big one, but, I mean, I think the OG's like no turning back

and stuff like that. know, they were, you know, they've been around for like, like, what, 25 years. They used to, it's funny because in that same era, um, that I was getting heavily involved with, uh, the Hercocene, like terror kept touring in Europe that the point where the joke was that terror was now a European band because they were playing more in Europe. They're in Netherlands straight edge. Yeah.

They were just like, you know, they were playing, they were playing, you know, predominantly the Netherlands for like a very, very long time. And obviously no turning back was always in the, um, in, in, in, uh, on the card with them as well. It was just for me, hardcore is a very magical brotherhood that transcends

all over the world. It's a collective group of kids that basically said we see your level of success. We don't like it. And we're going to do it our way. And it's like, and we're going to do it very loud. And we're going to support each other while doing it.

And we're going to bring you some, some of the most violent shit you've ever seen. But it's, it's, it's meant to be positive because we want you to do better. We want you. We want you to have to have better. But you're going to have to claw for it. And you have to understand that. You have to claw for it. And this is about life.

This is about unity. This is about being a family. And this is about persevering. And that for me was always like, I love that about hardcore. that like, you know, that unity and that like, you know, that brought a hurt feeling. It didn't matter if I was in Germany and there was a local show. And I would step in and I would wear a cool, cool hand t-shirt and people were like, oh, shit.

And like, you know what I mean? And like, it was good immediately because everybody, everybody understood it. And then, you know, everybody just like wrecking the places down. And then we jump in the van and then we drive to the next town. And, you know, I would wrestle that next night. And then we'd go to Germany and would come right back and, you know, go back to Rotterdam and I'm like jumping to the van with the guys again. And, you know, it was just, it was just a blast of the time, man.

And at the same time, growing up, I got heavily inspired by bands like mayhem and immortal, Crail of Filth, Cannibal Corps. And, you know, like, like much more like blackened metal and death metal and black metal, melodic death metal, and especially like the aesthetics of it and the lore behind it. And, like, you know, some of the crazy stories that would come out. And especially like, you know, with a band like Crailofilf, and funny enough, my clothing company actually did two collaborations with Crailfilth a while ago. And to me, that was like my mind-blowing.

Huge, yeah, yeah. There is an interview that I did many, many, many moons ago where I cite Danny Fields saying a piece in an interview that really inspired me to think outside the box and his his thing was like, well, the reason why we are so theatrical is that when I grew up, I love Alice Cooper and Iron Maiden. They had the big puppets on stage. And it was like super theatrical. And he's like, none of the younger bands do it anymore. So that's why I wanted to do it. And I wanted to take it up a notch because I love all that stuff. And like, it really made me think. And I'm like, man, he's right. You know, how can I do that? And that's kind of slowly

how the presentation came. And then, you know, stuff from my childhood with my, with my dad. that I've never really touched on this too much. And I also don't want to because, you know, I love my old man. And he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a great human being. But, you know, back then he, he was, he was a very different guy. And, like, the background he came out of was that the people he was involved with were like this super religious, heavy, almost cult like a group of people that really mess with his brains. And, uh, I drew a lot of inspiration from that.

as well because I started researching. Wow. I was like, you know, like, and then you go from from cults to a cults. And then you go to like Christianity and like all these things that you kind of like can draw inspiration from. And I got so obsessed with like world religion and then combining, you know, you know, the black metal aesthetics and some of the lyrics with, you know, your childhood interests and stuff that you've seen and went through and then grabbing like, you know, your, you know, your

broken, your broken teeny, angsty heart and put the big patch of heartcore on top of it. And that's kind of how you kind of, you know, punch your way through life and training, wrestling and, and, and Muay Thai and stuff like just to kind of keep your head above water.

It's like that entire combination of like that ball of like, raw emotion of anger, sadness, happiness and, and all that like, man, just being a lost kid. Making yourself like what you are now.

And it was like, And like, there's moments been in my life where I've been like, that was a close call. I shouldn't have done X. I shouldn't have done A. I shouldn't have done C. Whatever. You know what I mean? But I wouldn't change a damn thing looking back now because every little thing that I have done

in my life has let me to a path that I absolutely love. No matter how difficult it gets sometimes, no matter how pain for this sometimes. No matter how much regret is involved, it had to happen for that reason or else I would not be who I am now and I wouldn't change anything I wouldn't change anything simply because it allowed me to do what I did that's beautiful and like the way you described fighting together clawing together it's a brotherhood yeah it's very similar to again to wrestling in that like one one example I could think of is I remember when knock loose did a headliner in I think like 2019 and terror was direct support and terror put knocked loose over.

You know what I mean? I remember that too. Yeah. I remember I remember exactly what you're talking about because I remember I remember seeing the video of it. And you can ask and I did talk to terror after someone, a few people from terror after that tour, it was like, it was one of the best tours we've ever done. It introduced us to. That's how you stay

terror. Exactly. Exactly. You read the time, you read the room and you go, yeah, it's this guy's time. Yeah. But that'll that'll that'll keep us near the top. Yeah. And not just that, but like authentically going like, you know,

we've, we have our foundation in hardcore. No one will ever take that away from us. We are what we are because we did what we did. Here's these kids and they're about to do their thing. Because you can, you, you can argue about all.

I think knock loose is fucking fantastic. I think those kids do something so special, so unique. such a great mindset, such a great sound just show. And I was thinking about that yesterday. And funny enough, like, Harm's Way came in my head as well, because I'm listening all these bands

that have this like really like, like almost like black and hardcore type feeling. And I will say this, I feel like brutality will prevail. In my book are the first ones to really win that low with their guitars and had that like blackened feeling to their... You love, you'll prevail. Dude, I love them.

I love those boys. There's a whole story between me and those boys, but it's because I love them so much. So them desolated, knocked loose, cold orange, harms, harm's way. That cruel hand was more thrashy type in my book. You can tell me I'm wrong because you guys are a musician. I'm just saying it how I'm feeling it and how I'm seeing it. But I feel that there was just something so incredibly heavy about those guitars

and just these like low rifts that just made me want to fight people. It was just like, man, what is this? And like I said, like, I remember hearing sleep paralysis by brutality will prevail. And I just go, you know, these dudes are so slow. It's just, it's just fighting. It's just fucking fighting. And I just went like, oh, this is exactly what I need. We toured with them.

Yeah. And I believe we played Dynamo in Einhoven, I think. Oh, there we go. that's a throwback dynamo but but like the small venue the venue not not the fest yeah yeah no i think it's there were not 80,000 people there yeah i guess somebody at the venue is like mad at twitching tongues for like like leaving a banana peel behind or something you son of a bitch i'm sorry about that banana you you don't know about the dutch and banana peels problem i'm sorry man i didn't nobody you

didn't you weren't there to train me on the banana peel code i'm about the wrap this interview up because this is i love playing the netherlands Yeah. A lot of it is you're two weeks generally into, you're entrenched in this language barrier, wherever you go to. But they all speak English. And you adjust to it, but then you get to the Netherlands. And a guy comes up to the table and he's like,

hey man, you got this fucking shirt in Excel. It's so sick. And he just, no. And I'm just like, where the fuck am I? Even, like, we didn't really know each other. I'm watching PWG. I think I'm there live. I see this guy coming into Trapped and Rice.

I'm like, who the fuck is this guy? And then we have a conversation, and I hear your voice for the first time. I'm like, is this motherfucker from Florida or something? Where is this accent coming from? I couldn't believe it. It's insane. Is it taught in primary school?

Is it English? Yes. Yeah. So I used to be able to speak four languages, but my French isn't that great anymore. But German, English, and Dutch. Damn. Americans are so stupid.

He can't be Deutsch-Glearned. Fuck off. Do I suppose a good-earned? Yeah, yeah. I speak a little of Spanish. When did you, when did you learn German? I took it for four years of high school. My grandfather is from Munich.

And it was just kind of like, oh, that'll be an easy. That's funny because I've always heard that there's two options in like the United States school systems. You can learn Spanish or German. Or like, are there more, are there?

Sometimes French. Okay, okay, okay. Well, yeah, with us, It's like you get the bare bones. And I always say you're taught to at least, like, being able to save yourself if you're in a sticky situation or you're lost. But then you can obviously, you know, you can take a module and like, you know, learn more advanced like languages and stuff.

But yeah, that's, you know, in the school system, stuff like that is like, you know, on a base level is being taught. That's awesome. Pardon this interruption. Hello, welcome. It's Manscape Time. because today's episode of Hardlore is brought to you by Manscaped. Bo, tell them what they got.

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You got all ego Ethan Page on there. Explain, as you just did for me, exactly what it is. I would say whatnot is like eBay meets cameo. In that a cameo, a person of note who has some stuff people might want is selling their things. For example, today, the day this episode airs, Brody King and I, we'll be doing some stuff on whatnot. So click the link below, sign up. At the end of this month,

Bo and I are going to be doing the very first hard lore or whatnot. Whoa. So we don't know what that entails yet, but you know you're going to get some good shit if it's from us. Use the link below, sign up, whatnot is awesome. They're fans of the show. You know we only fuck with people that fuck with us and that represent us in some way that we think will work.

So check out whatnot, buy some cool stuff. Enjoy the rest of this episode with Malachi Black. It's hard for me to believe now that the House of Black is over the one year mark. Yeah. When I feel like you guys are really just getting started. Yes. You're hitting your script. Creatively, you're like the foundation is built.

Yes. You've got this perfect unit. Yeah. Yeah. Short term and long term goals for the House of Black. Where's your head at? So I think that it would make most sense for us to chase the Trio's titles. I really think so.

I think that that is something that I can hear within the ranks of like, you know, the fan base that is the AW fan base. And I agree. I feel like it's time for us to do something that, you know, turns more heads than just being the House of Black and give people, you know, an extra reason to. you know, bite down on what it is that we present through the world. There is a part of me that still wants to have a singles run in AW as well,

because I love single, single wrestling. There's a part of me that still wants to have a tag run with Brody, because I love tag wrestling too. So there's three, you know, stages that I think organically make a lot of sense. And I mean, I guess they're not that surprising, you know, when I say to my lot, I don't think anyone's going to go, oh, I never thought of that. He wants to be tag and trios and single career. Oh, you know, I think I think everybody can kind of agree.

I think everybody wants all three of those things. Yeah. I think we're in a good position to argue that I think a lot of people want us to do that. Yeah. I was at Forbidden Door. It's right up the street from where I live. Right. I was rooting for you for that belt.

I thought for sure. Yeah. That was a fun match. That was, yeah, it was a lot of fun. I think that was a really unique show as well. It was cool to be, you know, part of like a kind of an historic style pay-per-view of like a co-joined AW New Japan show with some of the like, you know, crazier names of the Japanese pro-wessex scene on the, you know, on the bill. It was just, it was very, very, very cool, good atmosphere backstage. It was a perfect show.

Yeah, that was. And all the cars were stacked against it, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The promotion was difficult, time schedules, everything. And against all odds, it was fucking unbelievable. Yep.

Yeah. I decided to go super last minute. So I had a group of friends who went who were all sitting together and I got a single seat like on my own just in the crowd. And I had somewhere right. And like it was just used. Everyone was just like pumped. Like everybody was pumped.

Like there was no. It was awesome. I had a really good time. I think that is the strength of AW. Right. Um, they do something. so very unique, so very different, and they really cater to a fan biz.

And obviously it helps that Tony himself is also, of course, like a massive fan of wrestling. And he embodies what I think a lot of wrestling fans would want. You know what I mean? And I think for him being able to monetize that and present that to the masses, especially because, hey, there's always, it's always good when there's like a call for multiple things and him, you know, fulfilling this, this need for a other product than what, you know, the WB is doing, I think is good because it's, it's, I was, I was always happy that there was a second promotion because I, even when it started, I was just like really happy

that my friends were now able to make like a really good living for themselves. Because, you know, people, people would know about, you know, us and all stuff, but we knew about like, you know, the other guys. we knew about the young bucks, the Kenny Omega's and stuff like that. And not that I think that those guys were not good off before, but they also deserve to be put on a platform that was bigger and had a more like national and now, you know, worldly, you know, view within the realms of professional wrestling. But also even like now, guys like the acclaimed, you know.

Homegrown. Homegrown. MGF Darby, you know, guys who bring something unique to the table and do something that they do something that's needed and wanted in wrestling. They've been able to present that to the masses and being able to make a living off it. And I think that's great. I have one more question about wrestling stuff.

Sure. I think I'm good. Did you have before you decided kind of, and you know what's funny about you too? I don't want to call your aesthetic a gimmick because it seems disrespectful because, you know what I mean? because you're like, I believe, it's almost Undertaker-esque where it's like, this guy is like studying this shit and living in blah, blah, blah.

Sure. Did you have a moment or a time when you were wrestling before your current aesthetic where it was like your big Scott Hall days where you were just like a guy? No. No. So, I think the first seven years of my career were spent

being wrong about everything. thing. Nothing worked. I was either being the, I'm a baby face, or I'm a good guy, or I'm a bad guy, you know, there was, there was no nuance. And I got this like horrendous injury. I had this little cut in the inner part of my thigh and it got so infected that I nearly died. Yeah, I'm a very stubborn individual. My wife will tell you, I don't go to hospitals. I don't go to doctors. I have to literally be on the brink of death before I go. Oh, brother. Medical technology is unbelievable now.

You got to go. My brother is an anesthesiologist and an assistant surgeon. So I should call it. You know what I mean? Yeah, the joke's always been that I put him in the hospital and he fixed it. But so I, I nearly died. And then I kind of went like, all right, so I'm out of wrestling for at least six weeks the three months because it was it was that bad i missed a lot of time and it gave me kind of like

time to go back to who i was because i stopped doing uh moitaine kickboxing when i transitioned to wrestling when i was 15 years old but it also took away my conditioning it took away my ability to be very creative because i was so hyper focused on being a wrestler and just focusing on the wrestling sure my style was that of like a striker and stuff like that but it was It was different. It was clearly not what it was now. And it was actually in that exact same time frame, I was about 22 years old when that happened where I just kind of went like, all right, what am I doing wrong? And I really started thinking about like, yeah, well, you know, you're presenting everything that you are not. You're not using any of the things that, you know, you grew up with. You're not using any of the things that make you,

who you are as a person. You know, you like hardcore. You like black metal. You like the occult. You know, you've got some wild stories from like your childhood and stuff like that. You've been through some shit. Why not use these things? And at the same time where I started going back to Muaytah. And sorry, kickboxing, actually, I started going back to kickboxing. And it was right then where I was like, I know all this shit. Why am I not utilizing this?

And then I started kind of weaving in like, you know, the what they call, I guess, the switching the strike or the V trigger nowadays. And the spinning heel kick. And I started using more like grappling suplexes and stuff like that. like more like clinch kind of sweeps and holds and stuff and stuff from like my panchuk Sheila days with like leg sweeps and body scissors. I started really kind of like carving out by looking at the time because I was working for WXW predominantly. And I was really looking at their roster and going like, this person's doing this. All right, I'm going to get rid of that move from my arsenal.

This person, okay, that's not being used anymore. And that kind of made me, it really laid the blueprint of what I do. nowadays, which is looking actively at a roster and then going, I'm not doing this, I'm not doing that. But also nowadays, being in a position to go, hey, guys, can you perhaps not do this? It's, you know, like, luckily. But you'll, you'll kind of starve yourself to force creativity. Yes. Yeah. I just wanted to come back, feeling comfortable, because I just kind of went like, man, I've been trying this for seven years. And I guess I've done decent, but not great.

And it was really there where like the transition from me started happening where I started implementing the, you know, the battle jackets and the letter cuts. And like, you know, I was starting to get tattooed more and, you know, using band shirts to come out and just like really like, you know, formulating myself, changing my music. You know, definitely adopting a little bit more of the, of like, you know, where I come from, like with my group of friends and then giving the hints of like the occult stuff in there and using different symbols. and using stuff in promos and making these little vignettes and, you know, that's kind of how it all, how it all grew. And then by the time it was about 2011, 12, I worked for this company called Insane Championship Wrestling and the promoter, Mark Dallas. He was very much of like, you guys, you know, I love what you guys are doing.

We work for Big Japan at the time, me and Michael Donovan, the tag partner. And we already kind of ran with the whole occult themed stuff, the Samarian Death Squad at the time. And even that name is based off, like, you know, certain things. it was right then and there where I started getting this ideas of like filming these little like movies that were like kind of like low budget horror movies as promos. And I presented the idea to Mark Dallas and Mark was like in his like super flat, heavy glass region, Scottish accent saying, yeah, you guys do whatever the fuck you want, man. And then like we did it and it came back and the response was so good that we were like,

you know, we're on to something. And it just progressed and progressed and progressed and then like, you know, so many of these, you know, the whole cradle of Phil thing came into play. bands like Watain and stuff gave me like, you know, aesthetically visuals, gave you a lot of like ideas and then dissecting some of the lyrics and of like certain bands and like, you know, reading up about their backstories and, you know, what, you know, what was this band inspired by? And then like, you know, going through all the crazy stories that you read and then like letting it, you're letting it influence you and then

listen to music, seeing the music videos and then going, I can use this, I can use that. And, you know, it's just really organically. But again, you know, it's almost like we circle back to the first part of the conversation, I had to, like, deconstruct and pull the fibers of all that apart so I can kind of, like, take a needle and thread and kind of like sewed them back in together, but I sewed them onto my own skin, you know what I mean? And that's kind of like how it all, how it all happened. Wow. You're, you're, everything you say, yeah, can apply to music to it. 100%. Yeah. You deconstruct other art to make new art in a way that's, that's, that's completely unrelated to it. That's how I can turn a fucking,

Stevie Wonder song into a God's hate song, you know? I believe it. Because if there's only like, even if there's like 1% that you can use, you're going to exploit the fuck out of that 1%. You're like, I'm going to let that inspire me

until like I, even if it's just a match that lights the bowl, you know? I know exactly what you talk. What was your first entrance theme ever? Oh, yeah. This is a wild one because you wouldn't expect it for me. But I was also heavy into skateboarding. A lot of my friends were like, yeah,

I was into like more like underground hip hop and stuff like that. So like gangstar and stuff, Talib Kuali, most deaf, Jurassic 5, etc. I used Simon Says's remix from Farrell Monk.

That was the first song I ever came out. And it was so, so random because you wouldn't think about that. And then like I used biohazard. Sick. And I used... What biohazard track? The one with Onyx,

New World Disorder. because even then because it's about conspiracies and stuff so even then it kind of like started like kind of implementing in my head because that song is about like the whole world gone of shit because of the Illuminati and stuff it's it's a cool song then I used Unreal not Unreal Jesus Christ Unreal um I got it was called again the song is called zombie autopilot why can I come up with the band on earth Jesus thank you on earth on Earth and then kind of like I've used terror, I've used trap and her eyes, cruel hand. And then I used agoraphobic nosebleed. Oh, yes. Okay. I love that band.

And brutality will prevail. Of course. You use them as a intro? Yes. Wow. It's a rematch version of some of the songs. There's actually a whole story about myself and Brutel who prevail in WB. So I own the very last song made by Brutality Will Prevail,

because that song was recorded as one of my never-released WV tracks. So I... So that would be Louis then. Was that? Louis was the singer then? It was an AJ. Yeah, it was Louis. And it's funny because this is about three years ago, 2020, 2020,

about about like a couple months before I got released. I had a whole talk with Vince and this is in the COVID era. And to make a very long story short, Vince was just like, we got to do something with you. And I was like, yeah, no shit. And I said, okay, I have this idea. I want to do this with this character, that with this character. And he loved it.

It was like, yeah, that sounds great. You know, like I gave him the idea of almost this like James Bond. type villain that has like an aesthetical, you know, difference, but it doesn't make him anything else other than like having an aesthetic that he can draw inspiration from, right? I wanted a new theme song because he was already, he already took the entrance away. He, I don't know why, but he was just to the dismay of many, many, many fans and many, many staff members, he was like, he took the coffin away. He took the raise away. And no one ever. I was furious. No one ever, even I didn't get I was just like, but that made me, me.

So whatever. So he took that away and we sat down for like, we had a 45 minute conversation. I was kind of unheard of because Vince usually like didn't talk like long and then people to five to ten minutes. But he really took the time. We really sat down for a very long time. And Bruce Pritchie was in the room too. He was taking notes. And I said, give me X amount of time and let me do X, Y, Z.

He sent me home and I started talking to the guys from Tel Avivale, because I've known them for a while. I said, hey, guys, can you be jumping on a Zoom call? And I explained it to them and I'm like, yeah, fuck yeah, sounds awesome. And I was really happy for them because I wanted them, same as that we want to get you involved with the House of Black stuff. I wanted them to get that recognition because, you know, I want everybody who I consider to be a talented individual to be seen. and if I can use my platform for that, great. You know, I'm a big believer in, like, you go somewhere, you pull your friends and your loved ones with you.

I'm a big believer with that. It shows. And I wanted that for them. And I spoke to Neil, who was a abused music guy. He started talking with them. He paid for their studio time. They wrote the song. I wrote some of the lyrics.

And, you know, we kind of go back and forth. And we get his really, really cool, heavy song. And I came back. And Vince is like, all right, let's hear it. So I sit there on my mobile phone and I let Vince hear this like extremely loud fucking hardcore, black and hardcore song. And Vince goes, well, I mean, I don't know if that's music, but I'm 76 years old. So what the fuck do I know about?

But, you know, he was, he was okay with it. But then I don't know where it kind of went iffy. I think they played that song once. I think it was against like the last time I had a match with Kevin Owens when we had that I think it was my last match to be, yeah, the one against Kevin Owens where I think they're famously doing the double knees onto the chairs came from.

And we used it once. It didn't really get an intro. It was just like, it was there. We hadn't rehearsed anything. And they were just like, yeah, just get out there. And everybody was like, okay, but you're not going to debut any of that. We were just like, I think everybody was just very, very tired. It was a very strange.

That COVID era taping was very, very strange, very, very depressing for a lot of people. people. And also for Vince, because Vince's thing was always like, I can't get a live reaction to people. So I don't know what's going on. I like the ratings aren't telling anything because either everybody's watching or no one's watching. So I don't know. I have no point of reference. And for Vince at the time, like, you know, having a loud crowd reaction is his gauging point as to see how people. And, you know, that's, that's obvious. But, you know, he didn't know. So we did the match with Kevin and we sat down again.

We talked and we talked and we talked and we talked and he said like, look, this is what I want you to do. And now that you lost against Kevin's, I'm going to take you away from TV for like the next six weeks. And you're going to come back at the bumble and we're going to reset you. And this was in November. The rumble was obviously in January. And then the new year came and nothing happened. And obviously I didn't do anything until like April of 2021, I want to say. And then we started shooting the vignettes for the Dark Father.

That was the big reset. and then obviously everybody knows what happened. But that was my story with brutality will prevail. And that song is still in my position. And I do want to release it with them because I owe it to those boys because it's, it's their art. I just like, I just need to figure out a good way of like, you know, doing it in a way that like, you know, it helps them because obviously,

unfortunately, recently they decided to call it quits. Yeah. And, you know, I guess they're like doing separate things now. but I think it'd be cool at one point we can go, hey, guys, remember we have the song, let's bring it out. And they actually asked me a while ago, but it just, you know, with this schedule, it was just, you know, another thing on top of all the other things that was going on, that we haven't been able to like, you know, figure that out.

But I do believe that in the future we can, we should, we should do something like that. Absolutely. That's awesome. I'm going to ask Ash and Louis about that. I still keep up with that. Yeah, send the wave over, brother. Yeah. Sure.

You got some time to talk about food before we call it? Sure. What do you think? You got any more specific questions, Connell? I guess just like, I kind of want to get the same gauge on who's there in AEW that you're dying to work with. Because obviously, as your friend, I'm selfishly happy that you're still there, you know, because I get to see this beautiful flower grow with you and my man, Brody. and Malachi Black gets to be who Malachi Black wants to be. Sure.

And that's the thing that for me was like a relief and you staying. Sure. Who are you dying to kick in the head there? So first thing to take a little bit, I'm going to pull back a little bit on one of the things that you said. So you say Malachi Black can be who Malachi Black wants to be. and that is true to an extent. But I also want people to understand that there is still a cooperation between myself and the powers that be.

So my ideas are not always processed the way that I would want them to be created. I want people to always understand that there is, you know, there's my ideas, there's Tony's input, and there's QT's input, and together we make, you know, happen what we want to happen. I'm very happy with that. And it's definitely allowed me to be me, more than I've ever been allowed to be myself, especially on the main roster for W. NXT was a different story. NXT, Hunter was very much like, yeah, no, do what you want to do.

Like Alster was 100% a thing between me and Hunter. Like we, I told them what I wanted to do, how I wanted to do it, and what I wanted to present. And he said, like, I've got this idea for an entrance for you. This is what I want to do. I send them a ton of live DVDs from some of my favorite bands. and music videos, and that's kind of how we came up with, like, the candles and the fire and, like, you know, the black and red and stuff like that. But main roster, obviously, a very different story.

AW, lies a little bit between what I did with NXT and the main roster. It's a little bit more mixed, if that makes sense. But there's no script being handed to you. No, no, no. And that part I'm very happy with that I can say what I want to say and do what I do. But sometimes I have to convey a certain message in a certain way. But other than that, there's not like a lot. lot of like barriers in regards to you know that um who do i want to tangle with so and this is like a

really strange thing to say perhaps but i would really like to wrestle brodie in a w and the reason why is because best friends make better enemies and i think that him and me can oh yeah him and me can kind of like bring something out of each other that is like animalistic and we can pull back the curtain on a friendship level, actually move the curtain in front of our friendship level, and just go, all right, we're going to fight, and we're going to fight, and not have any hatred towards each other.

It's just this is the business, right? Other than that, I would love to wrestle Chris Jericho, just because he's Chris Jericho, he's one of my all-time favorites. I have so much admiration for that dude, a guy who's been able to reinvent himself, no matter what, the smallest thing. And he'll just make it into like the biggest neon sign

that you'll ever see and just utilize it. He is crazy. Like, he is, he is one of the masterminds of the modern day wrestling. We talk about that damn near every week on here. He's like objectively in the goat. He's the top four. 100%.

And I don't, I don't care what people think or say. He is from a, level of as a wrestler looking at a wrestler. Thanks a group. As a wrestler looking at a wrestler, I think he is what a lot of people should take notes from because even like wrestling-wise, you know,

he wrestles bandito and he still pulls out like the craziest matches. And he's just, he's incredible. Especially us, you know, given his age, he's, man, he's Jericho, man. I have nothing but loving respect for him. I say it all the time, but I was at his WWF at the time debut. Oh, wow. Yeah, I was that my mom took me for my birthday.

That is so cool, though. That is iconic. Yeah, the big promo. It's like my one, yeah, the Y2J countdown. Yeah, oh my God. That is super special. Top Flight, myself and Nate against Top Flight. I love those boys.

Very, very unique. Inhuman. Yes. Absolutely. how are you doing that? Yeah, that's also one of the reasons why I requested to work with Dante at the time, because I knew I could have, I could give him something that he hadn't had prior to that, and that was like someone slowing him down and forcing him to sell,

but also showing him like some etiquette stuff, and he did, he did absolutely great, a lot of potential in that kid. It's up to him what he does with it. You know, and I said that in an interview at the time as well, I think he can be absolutely one of the better ones, but it comes down to what he does with it. You know, you can only give someone a candle. They have to strike the match and light it up. But you can't do that for it.

The Bucks and Kenny, I think, from a six. And I, like, you know, even even, even take away the belts. Just that interaction in general, I think, is a head turner just because of who they are and who we are. The six of you together is just like the world is fucking creamy. And it's so black first white, literally. Yes. House of Black versus the elite like golden, you know. It's the foundation of every story ever told.

Objectively, it's like a kind of a new Jack fan. I'm dying for that. That's what I want is that Sixth Man. I think so too. I think I'd be like one of the more interesting ones, especially given the level of talent in that match. So Ozzy Open and Will Osprey. And I know they're new Japan, but, you know, they have been in AW before.

I have a little bit of a little brother dynamic with Will throughout the years where I've had to correct him a couple times. In all good love and in all good faith in terms of that, because Will is a very talented young man. He's in great shape. he does things from a physical standpoint that are just like unreal every time I see him wrestling does something I've never seen before looks the part is the parts can talk convincing and Ozzy Open well if you've seen a match against them at PWG

you know exactly why I would want to wrestle him on AW because those guys are so talented oh my God of these guys good. Like some of the best wrestlers I've been in the ring with those guys. And then FDR, just because I have so much love for them. I used to love watching, wrestle them in WDB.

Me and me and Rick O'Shea at the time, they've had so many matches with them on live events. And it was just always a blast, always fun. Those guys are like through and through pros. Like, they are... Wrestlers, wrestlers.

100%. I'm saying the ringworm, of wrestlers. There is just, there is just an overflowing extent of like talent in AW. Like, I don't think there's anyone who I wouldn't want to wrestle. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think, I think the answer, I think that list is, is shorter because I don't think that list exists. Wow. But it's a, it's an incredibly cool melting pot of older guys from the Indies that have been around for a very, very long time to veterans from like the WB being around for a very long time with, you know, younger generational wrestlers that you already can tell now are going to set the world

on fire once they reach that level of like physical maturity and once they really like, you know, get it. You know, they're going to do very special things. I feel like it's up to myself and a few others to really, you know, guide them as all and make sure that they do the right things. And hey, that doesn't mean that I'm always right. It never means that I'm always right. I just know that I know what I do works and I can help them translate that for them in their own world. And I'm always a big fan of trying everything. And even if it doesn't work for you, at least you have your answer. Because if you know what doesn't work for you, you never have to go back to it again. Well, you said. You said you're on the hammer right now. You're getting real in shape.

Yeah, well, especially like, you know, a couple months ago, me and my wife had a bit of a long talk. And there were a few things in my personal life that was very unhappy about. And I had some physical problems medically that had to be dealt with. So around May, when everything was kind of cleared, I was like, all right, screw this. We're going to do it this way. And I went to AJ Sims, who is a world-runout nutrition coach. And he started coaching me. And my physique went from being not happy with it to everybody kind of looking at me going

like, what did you do? Are you on the gear right now? Like, what's going on? I was like, you know, like just making, making that change and really sticking through it and just kind of going like, well, I'm 37 years old. I'm not going to get any younger. I don't need to build like 50 pounds of muscle anymore. But what I can do is get leaner.

And what I can do is get into a different shape and just, you know, make a few minor treats. Sorry, changes. And, you know, use some tricks and let him coach you. And like, he's the same guy that does Tomaso. He does a bunch of bodybuilders. Elias, he does him too. And a couple of a W. Hell of a fuck.

That guy is a body guy. Oh, my God. He's crazy. But yeah, so just making those, making those changes and making those tweaks. And it makes me feel so much better like now, even like, you know, because a lot of bodiedis morphia happens in this one. And I'm not an exception to it. I think, I think in this day and age, I think a lot of men in general have a lot of body dysmorphia.

The internet is just fucking poison. And it's not real. Yeah, because you're being fed so many things that are unrealistic. bodybuilding is an eating disorder. Yes, no, it is. Being like, I need to eat 250 grams of protein today or I'm going to kill myself. That's your, that's disordered eating. Yeah.

And that's what it is. But one of the things that I really, really appreciate about AJ is that he makes sure that I have a really healthy relationship with food. But he will also tell me, this will work, this will not work. And he has so fine-tuned it for me as an athlete is an individual, like no, program he gives is ever the same. He'll have a base print, but off the basement, he will be like, hey, what has this done to you? Has it made you A, B, C, D, E? And if it has made you B, B, okay, then we're going to go here, you know? He's just been able to cut it into fine pieces

over the last, like, six, seven months. And I really feel like I've done something with my physique that I haven't done in a very, very long time. You're sure. Thank you. It's just like, you know, it took, it took some hills to climb because I've never really had a really healthy relationship with food in that regard. But I was also a dojo guy and never a lifter. I was power lifter because there's something for me to gain in terms of strength. But I really didn't care that much about like aesthetical features until I started caring about aesthetical features. And then I all said. Yeah. And then I started like helping my wife as well, and then she started signing up with someone as well.

Actually, his wife, and, you know, she is prone to just have more abs than, like, you know, most pro-body others. It's crazy. She's IFBB-ready. Well, everybody keeps asking, are you, are you, when we go to gym, we're like, are you, are you competing? And it's just, it's just funny because she's just, like, she's so in shape right now. And, like, you just keep on, you know, keep on going with it. And it was funny because she was telling me the story that she stood backstage and all of a

and a triple H comes up there and goes like and starts like pushing down and he's like oh I thought there were spray on there are your actual abs because everybody's just like man she's got she's like shred it now there so yeah she's going she's doing really well but I will also say I don't think I've again I might sound biased but I don't think I see anyone train harder than my wife like she her time is coming I hope it is because it's about time it's it's coming and she just works so fucking hard. Like the while ago we were doing moitai and, uh, you know, like, because that's something that's something that she picked up because I, I always kept training and she, you know,

she started joining. She really likes it now. Uh, to the point where I kind of go like, I think you've surpassed me in like conditioning for like, you know, moitai. I'll be, I'll be doing a round of pads while she do like, she'll do like a combination and then like like 10 burbies and they're not a comment. And I'm like doing, she's doing that for two minutes. And I'm just doing like regular pat work.

And I'll be like, and she'll be like, all right, let's go. I'm like, Jesus Christ. I will never forget reading, uh, that you guys got married in PW Insider and hitting the chat and being like, yeah, what the fuck, bro? Was that in PW inside our marriage? Really?

I remember. And you texted the table and you were like, ah, yeah, sorry guys. You know, like, and we were all just like, dude, congrats. What the fuck. The funny thing is, like, me, I've been a pretty reclusive person in my entire life, especially for my, like, my private. I don't think a lot of people know much about me, which I like. But when we got married, we were just like, let's just get married for us and not for the public. And literally, four days after we got married, she had a meeting at WV.

And like, I think she was on, I don't know why I wasn't. there, but I wasn't there. I don't know why that was. Oh, wait, I was still, I think, was that still in NXT? Okay. So I was still in NXT and she was on the main roster, of course. And she's calling me. She's like, I can't name this person's name. And he's like, you know what just happened? I was like, no, what's going on? It's like, we've been trying so hard to keep this, you know, that we got married to ourselves and all that stuff. And this person in a meeting just brings up, you and I get married. And everybody goes, what the fuck? Why did you tell us? And he puts me on the spot.

And I feel like, fuck all you guys. It's none of your business. So, yeah. The reason I ask about getting in fit, I'm obviously, as you said, your relationship with food has changed. So you're eating good. You're being a good boy. What I want to know is when Malachi is being a bad boy.

Oh, what he likes to eat. Oh, my God. That's what we're here for. That's a great question. I got a good piece of lore regarding that. Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. After one of those takeovers, the first thing you did was send us a picture of you eating Papa Johns in your hotel bed.

Yep. I think with the NXT championship possible. That's very correct. I remember that picture. You're like, I think I'm having pizza tonight, boys. And 10 minutes later, it was like, it's, um, Papa's here. It's, um, I'm, um, I'm, I'm a savory guy. I think, I think, I think, I think, I think a lot of men are savory guy.

if that makes sense. I do like, I do like my candies, but I love my ice cream, right? If I go for something soon, it has to be ice cream. Come on.

So there is a place here where I live, and I can't say the name of it because I don't really want people to know exactly where I live. Good point. But it's a local, I will text to you guys after this if you ever in this part of Alaska,

you know, where I reside, of course. And they're a local Pizzer, their family-owned pizzeria. And the reason why we always went there is because my wife is vegan. And they do a vegan pizza that is better than certain, quote, unquote, real pizzas. Wow. From the cheese to the tofu products slash, you know, meats that are used and the sauces. Yes.

A pepperoni? Insane. Wow. I like their, you're, I'm a regular cheese pizza guy. I do, I do like sometimes, you know, my barbecue chicken or my more pineapple. I do put pineapple in my piece of boys. I'm sorry, I do onions as well. Like I'm a big.

You said yourself, you're not always worried. It's fine. But in this case, I am right. You stick to the standard that if your cheese pizza sucks, you suck. Yeah, that's the benchmark. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

I'm a big fan. I agree. that wholeheartedly. So a cheese pizza from this, from this local place, and Coldstone creamery, and then either like their, their birthday cake

one, or their peanut butter surprise, because I'm a big peanut butter person. Peanut butter and chocolate is something that like, and then my wife got me on, oh, she's just, my wife hates, you know what's weird? My wife hates peanut butter and chocolate. Really? I'm not, I'm not a huge

peanut butter guy either. You are or you aren't, you know? Like, it's like, like, but she, she absolutely, oh, wow. She absolutely absolutely hates it. However, me, I'm just, I love ice cream, man. I'm such a massive mark for ice cream, but also like a good, sometimes just classic McDonald's, man. It sounds so, it sounds so. You're, you're amongst Ronald's army, right?

Ronald's army. You're preaching right where you need to be. All right. It's, I don't know, sometimes it doesn't have to always get super complicated. Did Brody tell you about the sushi place that we went before Christmas? No.

All right. So me, Brody and Buddy, I think it was Texas. Was it Texas? I think it was Texas. Went to the sushi place. And I took him out because I was like,

you know, boys, you know, been a crazy year. Let's wind down, sit down. Let's, you know,

let's get a meal together. you know so we went to this one place that we found there was the only place open but it looked like a really nice authentic looking uh japanese uh sushi restaurant um i i just go like boy this just order whatever you want it's card blanche today just just go for it so we order for the table and oh i shit you know i said it i think the best sushi and i've been to japan and ate sushi the best sushi that I've ever had in my life was served and and and and and even Brody was like you know this is going to cost you so much this is way too good and we're just like he's a snob yes oh he's a he's a massive food snob but I thought but but like I respected I respected um rightful he's a rightful

snob he's really wrong he knows his food he's wrong about I I I I definitely like sometimes when there's certain things happening. I'll ask his opinion of what he thinks of the food before I, you know, going because he's a big food guy. And I respected about him. So we sat down, we had the sushi, which was arguably some of the best sushi I've ever had in my life. It was like all chef sushi. It was nuts. And the bill wasn't even that high.

So we were all kind of like shocked when the bill came in because like me and they, sorry, me and Brody were like, this is a $1,200 bill. this is a 12 to 15 everybody ate good oh we were stuffed to the brim but it came out like on nice plates and there was so much attention to detail they're like these little like these little details on and the stuff like that stuff was like almost practically like it was almost like calligraphy like written on and stuff like that it was so nuts

it wasn't even one third of that bill and we were just like that's it for the three of us what is this place and it's almost like I feel like we stepped into like, you know, you hear those stories about like alternate dimensions where people like talk about like, oh, you know, I've been and went here and here and here and they go like, that doesn't exist.

What are you talking about? No, I was just there. At a mandala effect. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. A glitch in the Matrix. Yeah, it was like it was, yeah, I ate a glitch in the Matrix. And it was just, yeah, unreal.

It was, it was really almost like too good to be, to be true. But it was. Are you going to gatekeep the name from your brothers here? Actually, I generally do not remember what it's called. I'll ask Brody. He'll remember. He's going to tell you probably, I was okay.

But at the time, at the time, he was nearly crying. So good it was. So let him pull you. I don't let that big bastard fool you. All right. My last question was, why is Brody such a bully and a terrible, terrible person? So we covered that. Okay.

Yeah. So I don't know why. I just think I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I love you, Brody. No, no. Of you so much.

Well, he's, we have a very, we have a big, but a little bit of dynamic where sometimes I'm the big brother and sometimes he's the big brother. He's had to, he's had to pull me off the lads quite a few times and I've had to pull him off the lits a few times. But it's all love and I want to trade it for anything because I love that dude. And I'm ready to take the world over with him. And with buddy. Because like, like, you know, we haven't, dude, Julia.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We haven't, we haven't like, you know, covered. but he deserves a massive shot because and even though even if this is the only thing in regards to that i think buddy as a russer the way he moves and sells and does and invents and and how he just like is in general and how he looks physically um is one of the chefskes it's crazy that he's still underrated yes he'll do the like rag doll that i like love he's like i think it looks so good every time he did. Him and Wesley Blake are

two of the best sellers that this modern era has. And I will put my hand in fire for that. Wow. And then you see his body, like seeing his body in person. Yeah. Can I tell you something funny?

Please. Body dysmorphine. Oh, well, that's, I mean, James is that way. And the thing is like, and I hate that for him, because I just really hope that he won they sees how incredibly good he looks. He is a walking work of him. Oh, my God.

It's crazy. We'll go to the gym every once in a while. I'm perfectly capable of standing next to him and not feel some type of way because I know that that dude is like 17 times more jacked than I'll ever be. But especially now with the way my diet's going to how I'm feeling, I feel pretty good standing next to them. I'm like, I'm pretty proud of myself. But then like, you know, we'll go to the locker room and, you know, like I'll switch shirts

or like, you know, kind of take a breathing and stuff like that. And he's standing at it. And I'm like, I'm like, do you realize that you are literally like, you were like the 1% of the human race that like, you know, it's like, I mean, I look, I guess, okay? And I'm like, God damn, my. You don't just look okay. You look like you're like two weeks away from this.

He looks like an after picture. Yes. Yes. You can sell any product with his body. I'm before. Remember when you would Google, you would Google like Goku Super Saian 8. Yeah.

Oh yeah. That's what that looks like, oh shit. He is, you know, from, and like, also like, you know, from a human being point of view, like he's, he's an odd ball, but he's, like I said, he's my little brother when it comes to that stuff. And I have a lot of love for him. And, you know, he's, he's one of those guys that's been on the road with me

for like multiple years now. And he was also one of the guys where I was like, no, he has to come in because he can, I can do something with him. I can create something with him. I can make him an addition to what it is that I'm thinking. And he is, you know? And it's like I hope that at some point he will get his due in a different way in regards to wrestling where people are going to go, you know what?

Let's put some steam behind buddy and let him run rampant. Because if you even go back to his 205 live stuff with Ali and stuff like, crazy, dude, just so innovative. That's regarded as like the. best part of that. In the history of 2.05 live, it was like those two carrying it. Dude, nuts. Just, you know, like, and Ali is another guy.

Like, heavily underrated looks like a million bucks. He can talk. He can, he can wrestle. He can, he can do anything. He's just, again, another guy that I feel is walking around in an era where he should be doing so much more. but is not. And obviously, you know, that that's just the nature of our business sometimes.

Yeah, it is what it is. Not everybody can always be, you know, that that's just what it is, you know. And I think he's accomplished a lot. I just know that like, I just know that there is so much left in him. And I just hope that same with Buddy that there's going to be a few moments in time where they can rekindle what they did on the States that has a different viewership or, or just in general, something that makes people. will remind everybody of like who and what they are, you know?

That'd be awesome. Wow. I want to bring something back full circle. Last question I have about House of Black. Sure. One of the first things you said at the start of our talk was you would consider yourself the keeper. Sure.

I'm curious because knowing you and how. It was a deliberate use of that word. Right, right, right. Exactly. So even without explanations, I would just love to know if the other members, have roles. Yeah. Within the house.

Yes. Have you ever noticed how, there's two things that I'll tell you. Have you noticed how whenever the match is about to start, all three of us stand to the side in the corner? Of course. That's all I'm going to say for now.

Watch what happens every single time, right? And then there's another thing. If I sit cross-legged in the corner, there's always someone standing in front of me. Have you ever known? noticed that? Yeah, I have. If you want to look at roles, just I would say let your imagination go its way.

Beautiful. Right. Say no more. Buddy, if you're listening, I swear to God, I'll have that song soon. I got to follow the Julia one. We were talking about that. I was like, did Colin ever finish his song? And I'm asking buddy, and the buddy's like, I don't know. I'm like, yeah, yeah, it's not like you could like, you know, ask. We talked about it briefly, but the, I feel, the, the, the Julia one. Yeah, that was a banger. I got to follow.

I got to make a better song. It's a banger. Hopefully that one's on TV soon. Julia, you're doing great. Yep. Great job. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Man, this was like, what a pleasant chat this one. It was a fun, fun little conversation. Yeah. Thank you so much for so much of your time. No worries. No, no worries. Absolutely. The Trio's championships are not.

safe. The House of Black is coming. Damn right, they're coming. And they're going to come hard. Yeah, well, I mean, you know, I'll be a amongst, you know, I got to take a little walk first

before I get that, that quick. I'm old nowadays. So, no, you're in the best shape of your life. That's true. This was just magical. We hope that if you are joining us from Wrestling World, you enjoyed this chat. If you're joining us,

if you're joining us from hardcore world, you've got a unique perspective. And why we like wrestling the way that we do. One of us is there. Right with our boy, Brody, on TV every week. Watch AW. Yep.

Watch Thea and WWE. The whole, the extended family. We're all around. It's all the same thing. That's right. It's all the same umbrella. It's all the same world. Really.

Exactly. Well, said. Thank you so much. much lovely absolutely voice all right adios bye