HardLore - Michael Smith (Pain of Truth)

Starting point is 00:00:23 Hello, welcome. It's Hardlore Time. How are you, Bo? I'm great, buddy. This one's a long time coming. This is a huge event. We're here to celebrate the release of Pain of Truth's debut LP, not through blood. We're joined by one quarter of the Smith dynasty, Long Island royalty, the baby boy, the crown prince of Long Island, Michael Smith. what's up what's up how are you michael i'm good how are you guys so good doing good nice thanks for having me we are both the youngest of of several brothers in a musical family michael yes um chris and danny both playing in backtrack your brother your all your eldest brother being like a f***in the president or something yeah he's a lawyer that's something different right now He's in a different field of work, but he's in the law. He's kicking professional ass somewhere while you're kicking

Starting point is 00:01:31 non-professional, unprofessional ass. Unemployed ass. Was the path to hardcore laid out for you? Did you have a choice to get here? Yes. Really? Yeah. I did.

Starting point is 00:01:50 I did have a choice. I could have just kept playing. playing basketball or something. Are you good at basketball? Yeah, I was when I was younger. I was pretty good. Do you want or what, dude? No, I don't even crazy like that.

Starting point is 00:02:02 I started smoking weed too early in high school. High school. Did you make a decision to, like, I'm going to do, like, I'm going to get into music instead of sports? No, I mean, honestly, I was always, I'm trying to think of, like, the first, like, experience I had with, music like like live music people playing guitars and everything and yeah it was pretty early on on

Starting point is 00:02:29 it like that i was pretty sad on like i always wanted to do it you know like seeing christopher play and bands even like way before backtrack like just in the basement then practicing yeah um were you peeking around a corner looking like yeah yeah for sure i mean i wouldn't like think about like if you ask me when no one was younger if i'd be doing it when i'm going to be 29 in like a few weeks like i'd probably be i'd probably be like god that's crazy but like just being around music and everything i was going to be definitely like be involved you know especially when i went to a backtrack show and got involved in like hardcore you know that's the classic story right you saw you saw franz singing no i mean for backtrack i did i did uh franz was at like a

Starting point is 00:03:17 early backtrack show on Long Island at this spot called the Black Box Theater. And that was like the first time I met him. And he actually, I remember that night he stayed at my parents' house. And I think in the morning, like my mom was like, oh, like going to make breakfast for everyone. And he said like exactly what he wanted to like a tea, like ingredients, like very specific. And she was like, how do you know I have that? He was like, oh. I think they might have like rated the fridge in that before. He responded in perfect Italian.

Starting point is 00:03:52 Yeah. Oh. Como did you make a choice from, were you ever a sport guy? Ah, fuck, no, dude. Couldn't skate, couldn't throw a football. I was flexible. So I was like,

Starting point is 00:04:09 spin kick or die, you know? Yeah. Those are my options. I played baseball a lot. Were you good? I mean, I have long arms and I was the only kid who could make a play from, I played third base. I could make the throw to first and make the out because I could throw really far.

Starting point is 00:04:30 That extra length. I just whip me. This is what my dad would tell me. But anyway, I may, I was batting and I got hit by a ball and broke my wrist. And I wasn't able to play guitar. And that was like, well, fuck this. like all I want to do is play guitar. Why am I?

Starting point is 00:04:48 And then later on, fell skateboarding, broke my thumb. Couldn't play guitar. I was like, well, fuck skateboarding. It was literally all like, these accidents made me into just committed guitar play. The butterfly effect. I would say I had a half guide in Taylor and a half reverse guide in Taylor. Because it was so, it was very much like, listen to this stuff, but also, fuck you. Fuck you.

Starting point is 00:05:14 don't come in my room you know no i get that too i had the same thing like i was going to bring it up earlier when i was talking about them practicing like in the basement like trying i think the band was literally called vitala like the band which is hilarious did you did you hear about that ever or not no vitala had a danzig no no he wasn't in it he wasn't in it the way i remember it the way i remember her coming about was they were in a band called at best not Vitala, just Christopher and his friend Tim Shumenti. I forget who else was in it, but they were, they would practice all the time, and Vital would always be there.

Starting point is 00:05:58 And then they started playing shows. And like, it wasn't like New York hardcore music or anything like that. It was more like, I don't even fucking know what you call it, just like some Long Island, like melodic. But by Talmud. Majority type stuff or? Yeah, like a little bit more like emo-y. I would say, you know.

Starting point is 00:06:16 Fuck, yeah. But Vitalo nonetheless would just pit, like, Leeway was playing. To practice? Yeah, like, they wouldn't really let me down there, like, when I was younger, you know? Like, so that's why I would bring it up. I'd open the door and they'd be like, get the fuck out of here. So Chris would say that to you? Yeah, like, pretty, probably not so aggressively, but he'd be like, y'all get the fuck out of here.

Starting point is 00:06:41 Okay. We're busy, you know? Yeah. Yeah, I got a shit. Dude, Colin, you got to start a band called like Bevalt or something. Well, I was just telling you about how I wanted to open a coffee shop named Scanlon. Yeah. So now that just makes me want to do it even more.

Starting point is 00:06:57 That's so you're telling me, you're telling me Chris always hasn't always just been like the best guy ever. No, the best most supportive guy. No, he's been the best guy ever forever. But he was, I mean, he was. You're the little brother. You're the little fucker. Yeah, I mean, like, nothing, like, too crazy. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:07:18 But when he was, like, 13 to 15 in those first couple bands, he would take it very seriously. He would be like, yeah, I don't, like, want you down here messing around, you know? Yeah. But that made me want to do it more. You know what I mean? Like, the first, like, I'm trying to, the first person I saw played drums, that was, like, because there was guitars around my house and, like, like, little amps and shit. So it was more normal. but the first time, like, someone set drums up downstairs,

Starting point is 00:07:45 and I was like, oh, shit, it was our friend, Sean McMahon. And he's a good drummer, so, like, I remember being like, holy shit, that's fucking awesome. Do you play drums at all? Yeah, I can't play drums. Yeah, nothing like, I can't back it up like you, but I can play a little bit of it. Yeah. Yeah, I wrote, uh, how do you work this like?

Starting point is 00:08:08 I wrote acting up, uh, the first single. On drums? Yeah, I wrote it on drums with, like, when me and Nick got to the studio before everyone, we flew in, like, a night early. And I think we got in, like, late as shit. And it was, like, two something in the morning. And we just weren't sleeping. And I was like, yeah, I wonder if we could just go in this, like, in the room where we were going to record. I was like, everything was set up.

Starting point is 00:08:31 So I was like, oh, I wonder if we could fuck around in there. We only had nine songs at the time where we might have had more, but we knew we were going to cut a couple of them. Right. When we just started fucking around and I was on the drums and that's why like that part kind of king nines it like the high hat part yeah like we just broke there and like looked at each other. I was like oh fuck it and then he he was like oh that song's dope I was like dude that song with the actual like with Nick the drummer on it would be insane and you're telling me

Starting point is 00:09:05 acting up single one my favorite song on the album was not with was not a song on the flight there. Sick. Which is sick, you know? And, like, there was question whether or not to put it on, like, or to even, like, start recording it or maybe we would record it and save it for something. But then, like, once it was actually recorded and then, like, they heard the lyrics and everything with it, they were like, oh, fuck, all right.

Starting point is 00:09:27 Like, you know what we call that, Michael? Our Lord, baby. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:09:33 Wow. That's awesome. Yeah. I have a video of us, like, the first run through. Here it is, right here. You want to see? Wow, that was awesome. That was amazing.

Starting point is 00:09:56 It's kind of, uh... You can send it to me. I'll put it in the episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can do that. I'll send it to you. Everybody just saw it. It was awesome.

Starting point is 00:10:03 They loved it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm trying to think, I think most guitar players who I know can play drums. A little bit. And most drummers can play a little bit of guitar, too. Yeah. I feel like if you can write, because there's a difference between playing and writing.

Starting point is 00:10:19 True. Yeah, yeah. I think if you can write riffs, then you fundamentally understand what you want to happen on drums a little bit. Yeah, exactly. That's how I feel about it. Like, I don't, like, write the, I wouldn't never take away, like, saying I write the drums. But at the same time, like, I'm showing a riff. And it's like, all right, the drums are going to sound something like this.

Starting point is 00:10:40 You can fucking do, like, whatever. I want you to go do to gada, yeah, yeah, half the battle once again. I want you to go, d. Oh, I love that part. We'll get there. Yeah, man. How does it feel? So with Chris and Danny in mind, you know, they paved the way you had a choice.

Starting point is 00:10:59 You chose to be here. And now here you are the last man standing on the road. Yeah, I mean, like, Christopher is with, uh, he joined I'm the Averinch with Vinny from like the movie life, the other band he's got. Which that's got to be an insane full circle thing for him. Yeah, yeah. And growing up, like, that was his. like that was like even for me honestly like he was the avalanche yeah yeah for sure like i remember

Starting point is 00:11:24 listening i'm the am avalanche like when i was younger and like thinking like they're the fucking biggest band ever you know i was in like fifth grade or something yeah but yeah it's crazy that i'm like the last one like kind of touring like a lot yeah so it's it's uh congrats man It feels sick. I'm happy that it seems like it's working right now. And it's got to feel good for them. We've talked about it many times on the show how many doors backtrack opened. Just like the gates between Long Island and the city were opened and have been open since.

Starting point is 00:12:00 Like now it's one unified thing. Yeah, yeah. I agree with that. So this journey that they started and worked so hard. It's kind of still going through. You're doing it. You are the proof of like that their work paid off. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:12:17 Fuck yeah. So when it comes to, when it came to writing this, was it collaborative? Was it, are you? No, no. This one was like more collaborative. I mean, honestly, the only reason the other songs were not collaborative, like more collaborative between us was just because I just fucking wrote that shit in my room in like a couple days. And it was just me.

Starting point is 00:12:42 And then drummer recorded it. And like it wasn't, there was no band yet. You know what I mean? So it wasn't anyone to really collaborate with. Like no one was. Pain of Truth was like a, I hate, I don't mean to say this in a derogatory way. But it was like a pandemic project.

Starting point is 00:12:57 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I had the songs a little bit before because I had like, I want to say pain, the song, Pain of Truth. I had a recording of me when I was in Europe with Hangman. I just, I had like a video of, I gave the bass player, like when we were sound checking. I was like, yeah, record me playing this riff. And it was like pretty much that, that song.

Starting point is 00:13:20 So I had a couple of them like started already. But it was probably intended to be Hangman songs. Yeah. What made you make it something different? Those do, like, I mean, Hangman did a lot. And, you know, we weren't super hyped up band or anything. We were just doing a lot of that because we just wanted the experience of touring and being together. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:13:42 Some of those dudes are a little bit older than me. And they just had to like buckle down. We were making absolutely, you know what I mean? There was no like money involved or anything to really keep it going. They didn't have the same grind set. Were you playing in Hang Man when we played a show together in Anyata? Oh, yeah, with the, I think we like touched on it a bit on like the short that we did. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:14:05 I forgot about that show. And I didn't realize that you were in that band. I didn't realize it. The SWAT like showed up. shit because I think someone, it wasn't even anything too crazy. I think someone just got hit. Someone got, someone got hit and the person who was like kind of putting on the show, which was just coming up to me to talk. And like, and she was like, you need to make an announcement or whatever. And I was like, there's the microphone. And she was like, well, stop the, the noise. And we were

Starting point is 00:14:32 just like, no. Yeah, I remember. And there was like actual, like, riot police there and like gear and shit. It was on a campus. So it started as more of you and, like, one of the, other guy as just kind of a project. At what point did you know it was going to be a full-time band? I guess more so like when we, because, all right, the real, the real thing, like the first song, Painting Truth, I wrote it like, Hangman in Europe, like whatever, but when I was really getting it together, like I say his name, I don't know if you want me to say the name on here, but I have a childhood friend that he went to prison and I grew up going to shows of him. He's a drum. He's the first dude I ever jammed with like fifth grade like playing like covers with him and shit yeah was he

Starting point is 00:15:16 was he he he he the only reason he wasn't in standard ground though is because his parents were just fucking hardcore on him not the good kind yeah like they were just very strict with him yeah um he's a fucking he's the best kid ever he's such a good kid always had jobs and shit and like i never really understood it like why they gave him such a lot of time but um he was in jail for something and i was trying to i wanted to give him something to look forward to when he got out so the plan was to like do like three songs or something like three or four songs like record him with one of my friends that doesn't really just do it for fun you know yeah and when he got out or if i could get him the tracks in there somehow which honestly

Starting point is 00:16:06 is pretty easy like where he was he was like we could have figured it out right um And he could have just learned him, like, give him something to look forward to, like, when he gets out to just, like, try to put, like, a benefit show or something together for him and get some money together for him when he get out. So that was, like, the only goal of paint a trip. That was really, like, original. That was just me, too. Like, that wasn't have anything to do with anyone else. That was just between me and him. And I told, like, I gave him the idea.

Starting point is 00:16:32 And he was like, yeah, dude, that'd be so fucking sick. But I guess, like, when you're in a situation like that, like, sometimes, like, like, other things in life. I'm guessing, there's, like, more important things, like, when you're wasting so much time sitting there. So towards the end, I had the songs. I showed him to him. And he was like, dude, this is sick, but I'm going to get married when I get out and get a job and, like, have a kid. And that's exactly what he did. And it's awesome.

Starting point is 00:17:00 You know what I mean? And he said, he was like, yeah, the songs are fucking dope. And I'm never going to be able to do anything. You know, we're going to play, like, one show. And that honestly could have been. awesome too, but that's a good man. Yeah, that's really, that's honestly like why I got all the songs grouped together. It was because hangman was kind of like slowing down a little bit because everyone just honestly, we didn't have the money to keep doing it. Um, and then I was just kind of bored

Starting point is 00:17:29 and I had him sitting there talking to him every weekend. And I was like, fuck it. I have a couple tracks. I'll just like, not that they didn't mean anything to me, but it was like, I have them. I'll just like, what's the point in sitting on him? You know what I mean? Right. Then, like, once he said he was out, then I was just, like, I didn't really think about it for a while. I think Lumpy had, I sent him the Lumpy just as like, just because I knew he'd fuck with the style of it. Yeah. And he was the one that really, I think he hit me back up and was like, dude, you got to sing on this. And I was like, I sang in a band before I hate listening to it. Like the lyric and like all the lyrics and shit now. I was like a little, I was younger when I did that, but. And he was like, yeah, I think it would be fucking sick.

Starting point is 00:18:13 Like, I think it's time for you to do that. And then I was like, I'll try it and see how it is, you know. And I don't really remember like when it became an actual, I guess when we put it up on. Yeah. Like online, you know. Did you have the Northeast Avengers assembled before putting it up or did that come after putting the music out? In terms of like, oh, was everyone on it? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:18:38 Yeah. Because once I started doing the vocals, then I, I started hearing like backup vocal parts. Yeah. And that's when I hit Nick up. Like I was really, I really just hit him up to come. I think like the first text to come. Hey man, you're going to come?

Starting point is 00:18:57 Yeah, I'm on my way. Where's Nick from? He's like from five minutes down the road from me. So he's Long Island. Yeah. He's Long Island. I'm Long Island. Ridge is Long Island.

Starting point is 00:19:10 Ridge is not Long Island. Oh. Ridge, honestly, he deserves an episode anyway, but maybe then we'll all find out where Ridge is from. No, he's from, he's from St. Mary's County. He's just in like, that's like, Collins. What is that? Come again?

Starting point is 00:19:29 Who is St. Mary? Which one is she? The St. Mary's County, it's like south of Baltimore. It's like a little spot. I've never been, but any opportunity he has, he lets people know that. you got to go to St. Mary's County apparently the most beautiful place in the world. So is Ridge the northeast aspect of the?

Starting point is 00:19:51 Yeah, and then yeah, and then Zach, the base player. He was like in Connecticut for a while. But he's been, yeah, he's awesome. He's in Brooklyn now though. So, yeah. But yeah. Pain of Truth, Northeast hardcore,

Starting point is 00:20:08 the longest Instagram handle. Yeah, yeah. Kind of awesome, though. I 100% agree. They all thought that was so stupid when I first made it that. But now everybody knows it. Yeah, it sticks out. Yeah, you can't.

Starting point is 00:20:23 If you tag it, it's going to fucking, it's got its own gravitational pull. It's awesome. But yeah, Nick, I think the first text that I sent to him, like, about the painting truth thing, it was like, oh, dude, I need someone to do backup vocals on, like, a couple of these songs you want to do it. And he was like, yeah. So he just came in the studio and just like, I. I remember him listening to it and he was like, dude, this is fucking awesome.

Starting point is 00:20:47 Like, what the fuck? Like, and not expected to be like sound, sound like this. Was he like, did you know that I played guitar or? No, I mean, I've known Nick for like, I've known him for over 10 years now. And I always wanted to be in a band with him. Like, me and him just clicked like the second we met like a while ago. And he could just, he was always so big. busy. He's like a grown, he's like a 50 year old man. You know what I mean? Like he's always at work.

Starting point is 00:21:18 Isn't he like your age though? No, he's younger than me, dude. He's younger than me. See? Which is insane. He's a fucking, he's a living question mark. I know, dude. He's a fucking man. He's a character for sure. I always wanted to be in a band with him. Honestly, that's why I hit him up. Like just because it was like, oh, whatever. Like, it will be down on paper. Me and you were in a band. We'll be able to look back on it one day and be like, oh, that was sick. remember. Yeah. We were in band for a couple shows or something.

Starting point is 00:21:46 Same thing with Ridge. Like, I just like, he was doing the artwork. That's what it was. Ridge did the art, like the dog or whatever for me. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:21:53 Put the logo together. And he sent me, uh, the last song on the first release, the L-I and YHC song. He like, uh, sent me that last track.

Starting point is 00:22:05 It was a little bit shorter. I added like a couple riffs into it to make it a little bit of, but that was him just mess around. Yeah, like, dude. Wow. He, his whole fucking, it's fucked up. His computer. Like his files, like, he's got a whole, like, E-town record that he just made for fun.

Starting point is 00:22:28 Like, it's like, it's so good. It's insane. Wow. Like, I was like, dude, you better, like, actually put this out one. People are going to be dying for it after this now that it's out there. He is like an actual brilliant musician. It's crazy. Dude, he really is.

Starting point is 00:22:42 And I'm nothing like that. So it's crazy hanging out of him and like watching him like do his thing. I'm like, dude, fucking. Because it's funny to him too, I think. You know, like how good he is. Like how good he really is. Like it's silly. Yeah, it's almost like a joke.

Starting point is 00:22:55 Like he thinks it's funny. Like the better he gets. But you assemble these two incredible rifers, you know? Yeah. And it's sick. It's like if you watch the first show that we played like none of them knew each other. You know, it was only like Nick didn't know Ridge. Whoa.

Starting point is 00:23:12 Nick didn't know Zach. Zach didn't know Ridge. Like none of them knew each other. And that was the first practice before the first show, like the day before the first show, they walked in the practice room. And they're like, hey, what's up? I'm there. Oh, my God. Introducing.

Starting point is 00:23:26 And we went to Texas Roadhouse. Oh, fuck. Yeah. I think Lumpy posted a picture. The first show was at Ammonieville Music. Yeah. Yeah. We did two.

Starting point is 00:23:37 Yeah, you headlined your first two shows. Yeah, we sold them out too. That's why we did. How did you have, like, what, what made you think to do that or think that you could do that? You did it. So, congrats. But what was the gimmick there where you were like, what if we just fucking headline? I don't know.

Starting point is 00:23:54 Dude, the vibe was just something about, like, the pit was probably mainly like the pandemic. And it was like, oh, people are going to be itching to go to a show. Yeah. I'm pretty sure we put the flyer up before. I could be wrong. But I think, like, it wasn't really happening yet. Like, shows weren't really good. like going oh oh when so was it 2021 or 22 yeah i think it was 20 i remember it was near ours

Starting point is 00:24:21 and uh we both had the dual black and white yeah for two shows and i was like there we go yeah yeah same way i remember being fucking psyched on that uh but i don't know yeah it was i don't know who's idea i don't think we ever questioned not to i don't know if that sounds like bad but the bands like you had like king nine and tsunami on there yeah bands who was the first shows it was not yes and they were they all didn't even think about it they were just like yeah sounds sick let's do it yeah that's awesome awesome dude tsunami was putting on for us like right off the bat i didn't really know any of them either uh prior so it was i think like i met a couple of them when i was with hangman over there but we didn't really like get a chance to quit too hard it was like death threat hangman

Starting point is 00:25:07 was in Mexico together and we went up to Cali and we fucking played the hands of God record rooms like in like school and that's like the first time I really linked up with any of those dudes but the second that Patriots came out they were all like backing it and they were all popping off at the show like at our first show like all gone crazy so it's amazing I love all those dudes

Starting point is 00:25:27 yeah that's awesome so you play your first show you headline two of them two sold out first shows Two sold out first show debut shows. Is it had does it dawn on you immediately? Like, oh, this is a this, this is a fucking real thing whether I knew it or not. Yeah. Like, yeah, I knew it was going to like real thing in terms of like.

Starting point is 00:25:54 This is my job now. No, not like that. Like I'm still, dude, I'm, I don't believe shit until it really is like right in front of me and like I have it. You know, I try not to get too excited for anything. So I kind of had that mindset, like, from day one with it, you know. But I knew, like, we were going to, I was, I was going to try. I definitely knew that. Sure.

Starting point is 00:26:21 I told all them, you know, I was like, I'm going to, at a certain point, I'm going to try to, like, go out and play some shows. So if you guys can't do it because of work or whatever, like, I just want to, like, be up front. So find some guys to do it, you know, if we have to. And for the most part, everyone was cool with it. So we were able to keep going. And then once we played a couple out-of-state shows, I think, like, Nick saw the vision of it more.

Starting point is 00:26:49 And he, like, you know, took risks, I guess you could say. Or I think the right word. I don't know. You know what I'm saying. Like, he, like, quit his fucking job. Committed. He committed. Yeah, like, you know, that's what it came down to. Like we all slowly show by show.

Starting point is 00:27:07 We were like, all, dude, this could be like cool. We know, we've all wanted to do this shit. We can try to do it right now, you know. And having them in the band now is, Bo asked about writing already. And, you know, we're skipping ahead. I like to do these chronologically. So we'll backtrack at some point, no pun intended. But how collaborative was this record with U.Ridge and Nick being three like prolific.

Starting point is 00:27:34 Riffers. Yeah, yeah. So it was pretty, dude, we're like, I've never been in a band that's so honest and open with each other. We've really, like, knock on wood, like, no disagreements. If someone doesn't like something, it's just like, ah, I don't really like. It's like, all right, like, even if I did it. Like, even if I wrote it, I'm like, all right, fuck it.

Starting point is 00:27:55 Because Ridge is going to write something insane anyway and vice versa. If Ridge write something that's, like, that we don't like, someone else is going to pick up the slack on it. So like we're pretty, and that's worked the whole time. So like we're not trying to fuck with it at all. I think it also helps that we're all so far apart from each other that like we're not always together. It's not like we're in like a practice room twice a week or something like meeting at the same

Starting point is 00:28:19 time every week. It wouldn't surprise me if you were though. Yeah. I feel like that's real. That's the real NYHC destiny. Yeah. We ain't played a show in 10 years, but we practice three times a week. It'll be like we're the complete I can't remember the last time that we practiced.

Starting point is 00:28:35 Wow. We haven't practiced in so long. So I think it kind of helps though, like a little bit honestly because we're not like, we're never at each other's throats or anything. We're just, we're always chilling. I love to practice before a show, before a tour, whatever. But practicing just for the sake of practicing is my least favorite thing. It's the worst.

Starting point is 00:28:52 It's my absolute least favorite thing. Dude, I was just talking about it recently. Like I feel like it might be like, like, I feel like some younger kids when they're trying to be in a band. It's like, we just got to practice every day. We just go to dance. I don't know. I see the side of it or you guys might sound really good, but you also start to fucking hate each other.

Starting point is 00:29:14 I think when you're learning an instrument, obviously it's different. It's different. When it's like, hey, we got to practice well enough to be to play a song. Yeah, yeah. But once you're cruising, dude, once you're a self-sustaining entity, it's more about rehearsing. Yep. I agree. The like the set or whatever rather than like, how do we play these songs?

Starting point is 00:29:34 Yeah, yeah, yeah. You would think, I mean, some of my bands, his motherfuckers be forgetting. Let's go back in time a little bit, Michael. Yeah, yeah. Were you, that you say, you know, you say you're a relaxed, laid back guy. You guys, the vibe is chill and pain of truth. You guys all love weed. You've made that very clear.

Starting point is 00:29:56 Were you, were you ever an edgeman? or were you born smoking marijuana cigarettes? I went to my first show and I don't think, I mean, I was too young to be getting like, I wasn't getting trash or anything. I definitely, like, snuck a few beers or something

Starting point is 00:30:13 by that time. I was probably, like, 12. And, like, first or second show in, I remember, like, Celie and Vitalo coming up to me and being like, oh, youth crew, youth crew, like, you're in the youth. Mainly Vital was like, yo, you're a youth crew. And like I didn't understand the whole I just heard like oh like you're in you know you'll be in and I'm fuck yeah yeah yeah I think I put it on like a stand your ground shirt like standing your ground youth crew oh oh oh like literal youth crew yeah yeah but like at the same time I was already like starting to roll joints with like receipt paper or some shit there you go room so then but I was smoking weed or had a beer or something at a show not too long after that.

Starting point is 00:30:58 that and they were like, what the fuck? Like, that's not. That's not youth true. I was like, wait, what? And they're like, you got to be straight-edge. Like, no. Like, oh, dude, that's not me. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:31:12 I was just being honest. You know what I mean? I didn't want to take it. I could have faked it. I could have. Like, yo, dude, you know what? You're right. And put it down.

Starting point is 00:31:18 And then two years later, I would have broke. But, yeah, I was never, I was never, I actually stopped drinking. Like, it's been like a year now. Congrats. Yeah, no alcohol for a year. Feels so much better. Yeah, dude. Really?

Starting point is 00:31:33 That's cool. Weed is chill. Weeds chill. It's awesome. Yeah, really chill. My dad is fucking dope. Yeah, my mom's too. Yeah, for sure.

Starting point is 00:31:45 Tell me about stand your ground a little bit. Because I remember becoming aware of stand your ground and hearing about the 12-year-olds playing hardcore on Long Island. Yeah. Which feels like this cyclical. New York Carcourt story, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Which made me excited to see what you would eventually all come to do. Because a lot of the time them 12 year olds disappear.

Starting point is 00:32:07 Yeah, no, for sure, for sure. But here's one now. They did. They did? So, I mean, some, like, no, some disappeared for sure. Like, a couple of them are still in it. I mean, they're not, like, in touring bands or something. But they still go to shows, you know, every weekend.

Starting point is 00:32:25 I still see them. some of them were in band still one of them's in that band stand still from low down oh okay cool cool so but honestly stand your ground fucking awesome dude it's awesome it's fucking awesome it's fucking awesome uh that's like one band that i look back on and that i'm like i could like listen to it and be like oh dude don't like that's sick i wrote that when i was fucking 13 years old you know that's real man that's real hardcore and that was all just like lindenhurst high school kids like just from my hometown. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:32:56 I would say like three of them. Like there was three of us that, so two other dudes and me going to shows like every weekend and like making it like a thing. And then the other two were more just like metal head dudes that like played instruments. They happened to play. They're like really new, you know? I've seen one of them kind of recently. He was the fucking man, but it's just a different type of music.

Starting point is 00:33:23 And like he's like knows. I don't know how to fucking play guitar. Like I learned tabs. He knows how to read music. Yeah. You know, like that is such a high school. There's two different things.

Starting point is 00:33:34 So like he liked it when it was right in front of him the shows. But like he wasn't thinking about it when he went home. Like, oh, I can't wait till I can do that. You know, he was like thinking about playing like stadiums. That's such a high school thing. No, totally. There was a, there was a band that was like our, we had a band in high school. and then there was another one,

Starting point is 00:33:54 and they had this guitar player who could fucking Randy Rhodes, like sweet, like unbelievable, couldn't strump, couldn't da-na-da-na-na-na-da-da-da-da- the most bizarre shit. Yeah,

Starting point is 00:34:06 I mean, the kid's so nice, so it's not even like in a bad way, but the kid would definitely, this one guy from my high school, I know he kind of keeps up with everything that we've been doing, and I know he's just like,

Starting point is 00:34:17 how the fuck is this kid playing these shows? Like, how the fuck? Because he was so good at guitar and, like, just knew all the music theory shit and, like, sweet. Oh, dude. Doing all that shit, you know. I got a bunch of those from the best guitar players in my high school are fucking

Starting point is 00:34:33 fried cooks. Yeah, yeah, straight up. Yeah. Because they don't know. They, they masturbate on the guitar. They don't write. So they're not doing anything. That's the other thing.

Starting point is 00:34:42 Like, I don't know how to put, like, a song on and necessarily just play it. But if you give me a guitar and a joint, I'll fucking write. Yeah. Give me a tree and a baseball bat and a tambourine. I'll write you a whole album. Fuck a guitar, dude. Yeah, yeah. So, standing around.

Starting point is 00:35:03 Standing around was sick. And there's like a couple, there's a couple pictures of our first show. And it's just so funny because it's from kind of like the side behind us a little bit. Like you could see the back of me with my guitar and then out into the crowd. and it was like a teen night at like the local moose lodge but we booked like four like punk hardcore bands on it and took over the night then there was like one like techno thing or some shit

Starting point is 00:35:33 but the crowd is just like one level going like this and then I know it just goes like up like this because it's just like Vitalo Dan Sealy Drew Casabary I think was there that's awesome just like Scanlan maybe Jake Zimmerman Scanlan booked it Scalin book the Moose He's like, I got this teen night thing. I was like, oh, this is going to be a good spot.

Starting point is 00:35:56 Maybe that. Did stand your ground play out a lot? Did you play out of state at all? No, no. We almost played Connecticut one time, but it fell through. But we did get to play with a lot of like, like we played with Alpha and Omega when they came through. Nice.

Starting point is 00:36:14 Which was sick, dude. I'm trying to think how old. Is that an am? No, that was at this spot Out Eastmore. I think it was in Ron Concoma. It was like, they only had a few shows there. But someone's mom like got lost, classic story.

Starting point is 00:36:32 I got lost on the way there. Picking us up. So it was late. And it was like the mom that like didn't know anything about. The hardcore shit. You know, if my mom was picking us up, she like kind of got the gist already. Like what was going on. But this one was just like a regular.

Starting point is 00:36:50 soccer mom, you know, and she was lost, she was calling us freaking out, she couldn't find it. And all the Alpha and Omega dudes saw us hanging out, like waiting. We were probably the last one's there and they stuck around and we just like chilled.

Starting point is 00:37:06 Awesome. Watch them like climb light posts and shit when we were like 13 and we were like, dude, these guys are awesome. This is great. Yeah. But and yeah, we got to play with them. We played with rotting out. and soul search on Long Island, which was fucking awesome.

Starting point is 00:37:26 Yeah. What was standard ground? What were those, all you guys into? Like, what were your favorite bands at that time? Um, I would say the drummer Ryan loved Hammer Bros. Dude, fuck, yeah. And he still does, honestly. He still does.

Starting point is 00:37:44 He loved Hammer Bros and throw down. Fuck you. And, uh. I love this guy. This guy sounds awesome. The other, the other guitar player that was more, he loved like Metallica and.

Starting point is 00:37:58 This is a youth crew band? It's the best band. Of the coolest guys, I know. Yeah. He's awesome. I'm trying to throw some respect on my man, Brian too.

Starting point is 00:38:07 Brian was more of like a Long Island guy. Like, when I showed him, he loved like taking back Sunday and shit when I first met him, when I showed him sound majority. Like, we were young too.

Starting point is 00:38:17 And I showed it to him. I was like, dude, they went to this high school. school. He was like, like he just moved there too. Like he moved. Oh, okay. He moved to the nurse too. So to him, he was like, oh, I just struck old. Like moving in. He kind of did because we still fucking hang out. He really did, man. Yeah, yeah. But, um, but yeah, saying around is fucking awesome. It's on band cam. Check it out. It'll be in the description.

Starting point is 00:38:39 Standing around. That's so sick. Michael's first band. It's so sick. I love that. Was Hangman next? No, there was one in between. I don't know. I don't want to talk about. So Hangman was next. Tell me about Hangman coming together. You were on guitar for Hangman as well, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was just like I went to college for a little bit,

Starting point is 00:39:02 and my roommate was just, he's just so crazy. He's just a crazy guy. And he liked hard music, but he just didn't have anyone to, like, show him the way to get to a hardcore show. Okay. And he was from Long Island, but we just got linked up his roommate. together. Really?

Starting point is 00:39:21 What kind of music did he like if he wasn't, you know, like? He's super, he was a pretty like, like just on his own kind of guy, a learner guy. He was playing video games, I think, at the time. So he knew certain shit from video game tracks and then like went on YouTube. Oh, badass. So I put like a T-U-I poster up in our room and like very quietly. He's like, oh, I've listened to him on, like I found it on YouTube.

Starting point is 00:39:49 but listen to it. And I was like, dude, that's fucking awesome. What are the odds? Yeah, what are the? Yeah, that's fucking crazy. For real. So then, like, the weeks went on. And I was, I asked him to come to a few shows.

Starting point is 00:40:00 I remember Power Trip was playing Long Island and I took the trip back to Long Island to go see Power Trip. And I was like, dude, you'd fucking love this shit. Trust me coming. He's like, I feel weird. I don't know anyone, blah, blah. Like, all right, all right. And then we fucking. Little did you know.

Starting point is 00:40:16 A Smith was going to show him around Long Island. Yeah, right. It was so lucky. And then there was like a party at a lacrosse house at our school, like off campus. And we went classic fucking just got our asses kicked by like 15, 20 dudes, like bad. Like pretty bad. It was pretty bad. Like we fought a couple of them, but then it just turned into like we were at their house.

Starting point is 00:40:41 So it got pretty fucked up. And he was banged up specifically. The roommate was? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And maybe two days after that, it was like Blind Justice, I think record release. It might have been their record release or it might have been a Jersey Shore show. It was backtrack down to nothing, Naysay or Blind Justice, maybe Out Crowd or some shit. Something like that. Those blocked the bans out. And I was like, dude, you're coming to this fucking show.

Starting point is 00:41:14 I shaved his head right before. all these laceration all over his head and I remember pulling up and I don't remember exactly who but someone was just like

Starting point is 00:41:24 who the fuck is this guy like he just mean ass looking insane but yeah it's genuine though like I'm not gonna spill his his personal shit but he had a hard

Starting point is 00:41:35 fucking upbringing and he's just been through a lot of shit but he's a nice dude but he is legitimately fucking crazy and I right when I brought him the show and I you know like when you're younger you bring like a group of friends to the show and like

Starting point is 00:41:49 maybe you skated with them or hung out and like in school like maybe like three out of five of them would be like what the fuck this is weird and then there was the two that were like you know I'll be there next weekend yeah I get it yeah he was like that he was the one that I can tell right away I was like oh he's gonna come to every fucking show of me now and he did he just kept fucking he just kept coming to shows with me and like I knew he had a lot to say and I knew it would be rough because he's never done it before, but I had the songs. And I just felt like it was the right, like, I was, dude, do this. Like, you'll fucking, wow.

Starting point is 00:42:25 He was like, I can't fucking get up in front of people and fucking say shit, blah, blah, blah. Dude, like a couple months into it, he was like, it changed. If you talk to him, he'll tell you fucking straight up. Like, it changed him. Yeah, I mean? Like, he's the better person ever since then. Wow. Dude, that's unreal.

Starting point is 00:42:42 Yeah. So. And then, um, Ron the drummer, I went to Oneonta Punk Fest. It was like a huge fest, like every band in the world play that felt like. It was like Pureer 5 and Marauder and King 9. That was the one. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:43:01 Arms Way played it. That was the one where he couldn't pay anybody. No, we didn't get paid. Yeah, I know. Well, actually, I should rephrase. He ended up, this poor fucking college kid ended up going bankrupt. Yeah, I know. He had to drop out of school.

Starting point is 00:43:17 He had to drop out of school. Yeah. Because of a first. Yes. He declared. And we got, yeah. We got like payments eventually of like, you know, $80 every couple months or something. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:43:33 And we got our guarantee eventually. We got it. I know someone pulled them aside at the end of the night and I took pictures of his ID and shit. We're just like, dude, if you weren't like 16 years old, I can kill you. Well, I know. I know there was a moment where I don't know if it was this kid but it was whoever was settling. He was like

Starting point is 00:43:51 to our camp was like, I know I'm supposed to pay you guys, but I'm really worried about paying some of these New York bands. I have the exact same fucking story. You can keep you know, James was just like, yeah, pay them.

Starting point is 00:44:08 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I went up with I forgot who the fuck I went up with. I think detriment is like James Alosio's like band back in the course and I went up with them and was staying at like an apartment

Starting point is 00:44:23 from like someone's dorm room or some shit and the kid who booked it came like walked into the room and we were talking and he was like yo is your brother in Backtrack and I was yeah and he's like oh can I talk to you quick I was like yeah I guess he's like oh like

Starting point is 00:44:39 do you think you could hit him up and see like how much like they're expecting he paid and I was like, no, dude. How do you not know? That's step one. He was like, I know I gave him a number, but I want to see if like it was like, you know, a reduction or something.

Starting point is 00:45:00 Yeah. You're on your own and I was like, dude, you're on your own. And I was like, you fucking got yourself in the deep one. And then the venue, do you remember the venue? You remember the venue? It was like. Yeah. Well, there was one that was like a strip club.

Starting point is 00:45:12 Oh, yeah. You're right. There was another one that was like the full. thing. We're set up in the whole world. You had to walk like 10 minutes to get to the other. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:45:20 That was crazy. It was, it's funny seeing like, like there's that fest in Little Rock that we're going to be at. There's a thing in Oklahoma City or Oklahoma that you're playing. Yeah. Both you guys. It's crazy to see that, crazy to see those fests and that they're like selling out and doing so good where when was this Anianza Fest?

Starting point is 00:45:41 It was like 10 years ago? Yeah, it was probably in like. 2000 and 2015 maybe or something 14. Yeah, so ambitious and did really poorly, you know? Yeah, yeah. It's just crazy that like that kid was just, he was ahead of his time is what I'm saying.

Starting point is 00:46:03 Yeah, I don't know, man. He also put like there was, it felt like there was 200 bands on it. Even the second. Where is Anyanta? It's upstate New York. But it's in the middle. So it's like. Yeah, yeah. It's like same distance from Syracuse, Buffalo, Albany, and the city. So you would think like-

Starting point is 00:46:20 But not those. But yeah, but not. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Not the places where people already go see bands. Dude, that was fucking. I think we did that as a one-off. I think we drove to New York and didn't get paid and drove back.

Starting point is 00:46:35 Because the guarantee was really good. So we were like, oh, fuck it. We don't care. Yeah. And Hangman played that too? No, no. So I rolled up there with detriment. and after the first day

Starting point is 00:46:46 I was like Jesus Christ I cannot stay here another day I gotta go fuck home so I was looking I was scanning the room and I was like

Starting point is 00:46:57 who's from Long Island here and I'm like there was only a few people and I saw this one dude that I would only see in the K9 pit and like dude

Starting point is 00:47:08 he would come he would come to the show he was with another dude and they would show up for at King Nine or Backtrack just mash so hard and not say a word to anybody

Starting point is 00:47:19 and they would just go home. And that was, and like I think everybody noticed it. Like when I say everybody, I mean like, just anyone that was, you know what I'm saying. Like anything.

Starting point is 00:47:27 They are. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, it was a thing. Like people threw respect on them. Like,

Starting point is 00:47:34 yeah. And I saw one of them at, on the antenna and I was like, dude, that dude's from long on. I'm going to ask him. So I walk up and I'm like, oh, can you drive me home?

Starting point is 00:47:44 so long, I didn't even leave in tonight and you're gonna stay for the extra day? He's like, no, I'm getting the fuck out of here. And I was like, dude, I know we don't know each other and it's like five hours, but can I please come back with you? Like, I don't want to stay here. And he was like, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna leave in the morning. And I was like, all right, cool.

Starting point is 00:48:01 So I met up with him in the morning. And it was, that's Ron, the drummer from Hangman. Wow. So that's how I clicked up. That's how I clicked with Ron. Notorious King Nine ass beater. So that's all it takes, guys, if you're listening. You've said it 100 times

Starting point is 00:48:15 I've said it 100 times If you mash real good All the time Somebody's gonna take notice And they're gonna want to be your friend And then you're gonna join a band with him And have a friend for the rest of your life Yeah wow

Starting point is 00:48:27 Yeah yeah So that's pretty much how hangman started That was like the two key pieces that Wow So I wrote tracks with him A couple of like when I got home He mentioned on the ride That he'd play drums sometimes

Starting point is 00:48:39 I got some tracks Classic thing Yeah well jam some shit Yeah You know, but then we actually did. That's the thing that does not ever pan out, but happened to pan out. But we actually, yeah, but we actually did meet up and it was sick, dude. Hangman was fucking awesome.

Starting point is 00:48:53 Dude, the tracks are, are really good. Yeah. I don't know. I think it was just like a different, something about the time period that we're in right now. Oh, dude. I know you guys feel it. Like, oh, oh, yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:49:05 Yeah. 2000, 2015 to like 2017. Yeah. It was kind of, kind of stark. when it came to some tours and some shows and stuff. I don't know what it was. Especially for a straight up, like, hardcore band. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:49:20 I feel like, like there's nothing too crazy about, like, if you like hardcore music, like hangman's a fucking hardcore band. Like there's nothing too crazy. Yeah, there's nothing too crazy about it. It's not like. The hangman, you guys put that up while I was at, I was at the gym one day and you posted like new hangman album out. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:49:39 I listened to it the entire day. Fuck, yeah. That's awesome. Immediately something about your songwriting resonated with me in a way that was like, this kid's got something. That's fucking sick, dude. He's here, man. He's got something.

Starting point is 00:49:54 Yeah. So when Pain of Truth went up, it was like, all right, he's fulfilled his destiny and he's the singer now. Yeah. Yeah. That's what a longbie I think was on too. Destiny, dude. When you, when he was saying, like, yo, it's your time to, like, you know, do the thing. Like, go from him.

Starting point is 00:50:10 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. vibe that he was Because there was a charisma to the way you play guitar, you know. It was like clearly you were part of, you're part of the show rather than just a guy

Starting point is 00:50:20 playing songs. Fuck yeah. Yeah. Which that guy, you always look at him and go, that guy's going to sing a band. It's going to be awesome. So that being Pain of Truth makes a lot of sense that that kind of became your, this is your pain of truth has arrived now. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:50:35 I feel like. Yeah. Definitely. You know, it was this pandemic project that turned into. a full-time touring entity. It was also a good way to like, like not, I didn't know it at the time. I just thought that's just the way it is,

Starting point is 00:50:52 which it is. But like, I learned a lot from being in Handman and like, dude, we played shows for no money. Like multiple days in a row, you know, like straight up, like emptying my bank account. Like, quit my job to do that. And like I said, it's not like it was the craziest shows we were playing.

Starting point is 00:51:08 We were just doing it because we were getting a little older and we're like, damn, like we all just want to tour even if it's not like the biggest thing you know i mean we still just want to do it to like say we did it you know absolutely it definitely taught me a lot and and it makes me appreciate like if i would just if paying truth of my first band i'd just be like oh this was fucking easy what the fuck yeah it makes it it it makes it a lot more um like i could appreciate it you know like when i play crazy if we play a crazy show like i'm like this is fucking insane if we play a show to a hundred kids and there's kids singing along.

Starting point is 00:51:43 I'm still like, dude, it's fucking crazy. You know what I mean? You paid your dues for sure. Well, it's crazy that like you were doing hangman and you were just like, just want to tour, just want to do it, want to, you know, grind and it didn't pan out the way that you would have obviously preferred. Yeah, yeah. And then this thing that you're like, ah, all right.

Starting point is 00:52:03 Dude, right. When you're kind of not in that mindset and that's always how it happens. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. Because you're not, when the pressure is off, something magical happens. Yeah, that's true. Sometimes.

Starting point is 00:52:18 Sometimes. True. It really is just kind of, yeah, it's amazing. And now you're, you know, headlining, sandwiched between a Colin Young fucking weekend in Oklahoma. Oh, shit. I didn't even notice that. You're playing both days, right? Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 00:52:36 You're playing both. No, it's both days. Both days. Yeah. No, we do. I meant that. I meant that in parentheses, I'm tired. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:52:46 And close friends. And having, you know, some of the most memorable moments from a lot of the fest that we've been to. We've seen painted truth a dozen times over the last year in different states every time. And it's never been bad. And it's never been bad. It's awesome. Fuck, yeah. Which when we did this, when we did the mini in Boston, I think you had seven songs out.

Starting point is 00:53:10 you probably played nothing but good shows. Yeah. You've toured Europe now. Oh. Has that changed? Have you played some, you played a couple stinkers or? What in Europe?

Starting point is 00:53:23 Anywhere. Yeah. Have you played a bad show yet? You have. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. How was,

Starting point is 00:53:29 how did you find Europe? Like, I know you had been there before, but. Mainly in Europe, like, we played back a couple that were like, but honestly,

Starting point is 00:53:37 I don't know if it's just a hangman thing. like I never really get offstage and I'm like yeah that was because either way even if it wasn't like a crazy crazy show is still like dude I'm in fucking Germany I'm in Bakum dude yeah here's the thing I share yeah I share that mentality but the problem that I have is then you'll randomly play like Stuttgart and it's incredible yeah yeah like then you will have a show where it's like oh I could be in Richmond right now for all I know like everyone's going insane It's always, it's always like some fucking army guys who like got a weekend pass from a base that they're stationed at. And so then you're just like, what the fuck then? Well, just every country has a Springfield, Missouri. Yeah. Wow. They're all out there.

Starting point is 00:54:26 Wow. This is like. Springfield, Missouri proved itself as a place bands needed to play in the, in the early 2010. So no dis to Springfield, Missouri. There's a Springfield every state. Love me in Springfield. You know, so it's any, any state. But I know that's a really well said.

Starting point is 00:54:44 So touring Europe, a pain of truth. Touring in general, where your thing is guest vocals. Yeah. Which I feel like at a fest, super easy to pull off. Definitely. There's a billion guys there. They're dying to sing a part. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:55:00 What is that like touring? Honestly, like, what, all right, so when we first were recording just the first banisher songs and like the idea of all the guest spots came on it was like the pan like i didn't picture playing shows it with it you know what i mean i just thought it would be cool to like have it down yeah and recorded and everything then we started playing shows and the parts that are guest vocals i see more kids singing along to those parts so like i think it kind of it's right it could be rough sometimes. Like, I've played a show where I just thing all the parts, like in Europe,

Starting point is 00:55:39 like, but honestly, not even, because if we're in, when we were in Europe, like, we had tsunami there and they all pick up a track. Who you tour with is important. Yeah, yeah. Like, it's not, obviously, we're not going to roll out of the van with, like, Freddie Madball and justice with us at every

Starting point is 00:55:54 show you're right. Yeah. But, um, I wanted to, I wanted to ask you about even just getting all of these contributions. Like, we had a hard time scheduling and getting the three of us to sit down and talk, right? Yeah. How did you fucking...

Starting point is 00:56:11 How did you coordinate what, is it nine out of nine? Nine out of the ten tracks have guest spots? Because one doesn't have a... 10 out of 11. I think it's 10 out of 11. Yeah. I mean, like... It seems like a nightmare.

Starting point is 00:56:29 I don't know. Like, it just is what it is. So I didn't really, you don't really think about it as like a nightmare because it's like the end result, like knowing like that what it's going to be. It's like, all right. It's going to say. Very true. Like to me, you know, I think it's dope personally. I tell you guys in the other one, you know, I think like I always thought yes, vocals and shit was just cool.

Starting point is 00:56:54 I love hip hop. So like it doesn't really seem that crazy to me. And I see kids like, oh, like they must be compensating for like. like shitty music or something like something like that you know and like it's it's just a thing no other hardcore band is doing and that's why my thing is like it just literally it doesn't even have to be like it doesn't have to be like it doesn't have to exist it does i made it because i think it's hilarious that there's a million people and it fucking worked and it's just recorded and it's yeah it's out so like do you have a you know does that just sound like stonerish or something no no no like when i

Starting point is 00:57:32 read something like that. I'm like, what the fuck do you care? That was, that was socratic, brother. It doesn't have to be, but it is. But it is. Do you have a, do you have a favorite guest spot on the new record? Is there, is there one where you were like, damn? Like, the Freddie Madball one, dude? Yeah. I was. I mean, you have so many parallels to his journey

Starting point is 00:57:52 that I have to imagine. Does he know that? Yeah, yeah. We like, yeah. Because he toured with Backshack a bit. I think they did like a few Europe runs together. So Dude, I was trying to meet him. Like, you know, I just see Mad Balls since I was pretty young. I've seen them a few times when I was younger. And I always fucked a manball. Always like that would Vital would come over.

Starting point is 00:58:16 You got to listen to Manball. You got to listen to Manball. You got to listen to you. What are you listening to? He's the best. I mean, him as a spirit guide is like, oh, fuck, yeah, dude. He's going to teach you the passion.

Starting point is 00:58:25 Yeah, yeah. He's like key piece in like me being. in it, you know? You sound like him too. There's a really cool thing on that track. To sounding like him, there's a really cool thing on that track where the vocals kind of blend

Starting point is 00:58:40 and then like it likes kind of, you know, it'll switch through a phrase from one to the other. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's like a really cool touch because like it'll be like sentence of only one,

Starting point is 00:58:53 sentence with both, sentence with only the other one. As it like, as it like goes through the verse. I think that's like fucking awesome because that's unique too you don't hear that in hardcore bands yeah it was sick too

Starting point is 00:59:06 because I mean it wasn't they were all super organic like the way they came about like I wasn't sending a million emails out or something like hey what's up I'm Michael from this band we do this and it wasn't you know like if if I linked up with Freddie

Starting point is 00:59:22 two years ago and I had a dope song that sounded like hold it down I'd be like hey dude like if we were talking about me music and shit, like, hey, I got this track. But it just happened to be, like, we were literally in the studio, in Chicago. We just finished that song. And me and him were going back on Instagram back and forth through the band accounts,

Starting point is 00:59:45 like trying to work out a couple dates that we were doing. And he was just like, oh, dude, like, I have like shitty service or something. Like it would work better if we text. So then he sent me his number. And I was like, fuck, Freddie Mabel's phone number. It's fucking crazy. So then we started texting. And I just, I was listening to all the tracks trying to figure out, um, where to put

Starting point is 01:00:10 them. Yeah, like what, where to place them and shit. And I was just like, dude, this song just reminds me of a hold it down like error. A ball song. Yeah. And so I just. So you figure it out after. You don't, you don't approach writing like, I'm going to write this song for Freddie to sing it.

Starting point is 01:00:25 No, no, no. No. but I did that'd be fun when I when I did like I didn't write all these songs where it was collaborative but I did write that riff

Starting point is 01:00:37 the opening riff to it it does have a very hold it down feel when I wrote it I was definitely thinking about like hold it down and like oh like I need that that was one of the last songs we wrote for it besides acting up because like I said earlier that was in the studio but

Starting point is 01:00:53 that might have been the last song that we wrote and I I'd probably have a text to Ridge, like, dude, like, I've been trying to write, like, a hold it down track, like, all these different riffs I have, and I just can't get it. Like, do you want to, like, do something,

Starting point is 01:01:08 like, try to, like, write something like that. And it's, it never works, like, when you're trying to, like, trying like that, you know? That's just happened. But, like, listening to all the other songs, like, if you listen to Not Through Blood without you and me on it, I don't know, like, it's, there's something, like, it's just a very, like, straightforward,

Starting point is 01:01:26 hardcore track and like I felt like it was missing that so like going in it's a good intermission between yeah yeah like because it's kind of like the first couple tracks are like hey here's here's here's pain of truth this is what we do yeah and then a little splice of something different and then back to back to formula yeah exactly so like I felt like it just needed that and then like I said I finished the recording I was listening all the tracks trying to like figure out where to place them and then me and him were just texting and I was listening to the song. I was like, I'm just going to fucking send it to him. Like, what's just going to, like, the lyrics were already on there. Um, and I sent it to him and he was

Starting point is 01:02:06 like, dude, this track is fucking crazy. He was away somewhere. So he was like, not doing, he was like on a, in the airport or something. So he had time to listen to it. He listened to it right away. And I was like, yo, like, would you want to hop? Would you want to hop on the track? And he was like, yeah, 100%. He was like, let me write, let me just like, write, rewrite some of the lyrics or whatever. Then he texted me another two minutes later and I was like, ah, fuck it, I just listened to it again. They're fucking dope. I'm just going to sing them. That's awesome. That's fucking bad. It's so sick.

Starting point is 01:02:32 Where did you record in Chicago? The bricktop. Oh, you recorded with Andy? With Andy. Yeah. I had no idea. That was, you know, the first five Harm's Way records. Yeah, he he mentioned it to us. That guy's a fucking man. He made sense so crazy, you know?

Starting point is 01:02:48 Did he mix it too? Dude, I'm the fucking worst. You're amazing I have no idea You're real NYHC Dude that's awesome I bet the internet

Starting point is 01:02:59 Us asking Jeff G Last week Where Declination was recorded And he was like I don't know That was a bag That was all That was the perfect answer

Starting point is 01:03:08 Yeah but how long That's hilarious I just has no idea though I love that Like that's what I want Yeah Yeah You know

Starting point is 01:03:15 I want I want the new wave Of New York hardcore To tell me I don't know Who mixed this shit I don't know Who mixed it

Starting point is 01:03:22 It was... It was... It's off. Whoever it is. It's recorded and mixed by Andy, mastered by Bill at Azimuth. But yeah, Andy mixed it. So Andy did... Andy done good.

Starting point is 01:03:33 Andy Nelson. Shout out Andy Nelson. Chicago H.C., basically. Chicago H.C., weekend nachos, recorded fucking... Every goddamn, man. Do you find it... Was putting Ridge in the band a power maneuver to have, like, the best contemporary shirt artist?

Starting point is 01:03:52 dude like it's so fucked up because we didn't but he is like i it wasn't a thought and none of this was a thought it's so brilliant the thought dude like he sent me the artwork with the fucking dog on it which is just a logo with yeah on an image like a jp like a random google image and um like i said he sent me that one track the l i n y hc track and it was only me nick like killing Nick. Did you ask him to? Who? Did you ask Ridge to send you that song?

Starting point is 01:04:27 No, no, no. He sent me the artwork and the track was in the same email. It was like, hey, this is like if you want it? He was, no, no, he didn't even want it. He didn't, I don't think he wanted in. He just said, yeah, hey, I have this. That's what I said. He's got a whole fucking crazy track.

Starting point is 01:04:41 I have no idea how that ended up in that email. That's fucking crazy. Ooh, did I suddenly drop this like incredible new song in there? Was that me? He was just like, dude, yeah. Like, if you want to use this, you could use it. I've had it. It kind of fits the same style. I've had it for a while.

Starting point is 01:04:56 I'm pretty sure, like, he ripped off, like, if you listen to it, it's like a ripped off, like, figure four part or some shit, like the intro to it or something. Because what- Kudos to you for saying that publicly, you know? Yeah. I don't think he'd give him. He'd probably be psyched, I don't think. Figure four would probably be psyched.

Starting point is 01:05:13 Yeah, no. I don't, I'm not, like, too familiar with, like, the lineup of who they are. But we were somewhere in Ridge, was like, yo, this is so-and-so he played. Like, he never met him either. So, like, they were, like, hitting it off. And I think Ridge told him, like, yo, listen to the first track that we opened with.

Starting point is 01:05:31 Like, it's probably the sound. The guy is, like, following us and shit. Well, Andrew, Andrew's friend of the show. So, Andrew, if you listen. No, no, no. He knows, too. Because he put, Andrew was putting on for us from, like, day one. And I guess, I'm pretty sure it's because he heard that song.

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Starting point is 01:07:19 Every day. We got to try the new one. The shaver. Dude, it looks awesome. It does look cool. The handyman it's called. Maybe next week we'll have some handyman for our new episode. I can certainly try.

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Starting point is 01:08:47 This is an interesting one. What do we got? Our buddies at Danny Wimmer Presents. They got louder than life and Aftershock Fest coming up. They wanted us to tell you guys about them. You were at Aftershock. I was at Aftershock last year, which is the biggest music festival, biggest hard rock metal festival on the West Coast. No kidding.

Starting point is 01:09:09 Yeah. Wow. It was four days. You had a great time, you said. 150,000 people, I think. Oh. Yeah, man. And last year it was like Kiss, uh, Danzig.

Starting point is 01:09:20 Yeah. That was one day. Yeah. That was crazy. You said MCR rocked. Dude, MCR was crazy. Unbelievable. Who's playing this year?

Starting point is 01:09:29 This year, uh, louder than life, we got foo fighters, tool, rancid, code orange, Pantera, Jesus peace, turnstile green day and over 90 plus more bands. What? Aftershot.

Starting point is 01:09:42 a bunch of those same bands are playing minus I think Code Orange and Jesus Peace but man if we weren't at the cold as life reunion I'm telling you we'd be an after shock but we'll be at the cold as life reunion back to the episode I heard Ridge fucks with

Starting point is 01:09:58 the lor is that true? Yeah yeah he loves him yeah like no joke really yeah like he fucks with God like that yeah if you don't fuck around with that shit

Starting point is 01:10:11 him and Josh some last question too. Wow. So he'd be pissed if I was like, damn, you fuck with God? He'd be like, yo, don't say that. No, no. He'd be like, fuck yeah, fuck with God. Right.

Starting point is 01:10:23 He'd be like, fuck yeah, fuck with God. You don't? You fuck with God is the funniest way. Hey, you fuck with God? Yeah. He's so, he's such an enigma. He's able to draw a revolver inside someone's mouth. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 01:10:41 That was, you know. I sent him, I sent him like a picture. I had it on my phone. It was like, I'll send, maybe I'll send you to, never mind, I'm not going to send it to you, but the picture that I originally sent him looked like shit. It was so bad. And I was like, I know he's going to be mad when I send this to him

Starting point is 01:10:58 because he's going to be like, what the fuck do you want me to do with this? But I wanted it to be the artwork so bad. So then I sent it. Dude, do you know the picture where it comes from or no? No. Me neither. Honestly. I was going to have mine one day.

Starting point is 01:11:14 I was hoping you were going to tell me because I don't know where... No, dude. But he fucked with it like a lot. Like, I don't even know if you'd really recognize the original picture at this point and he added so much shit to it. Yeah, there's all kinds of stuff. One of the single arts looks like Chris. No, it looks like this dude from fucking...

Starting point is 01:11:36 It looks like a character from that movie hook with... The crying one? Yes. It looks like the guy that they stuff in the box on the pirate ship. Dude, that's Glenn. That's Glenn close. That is Glenn close. It's a came in.

Starting point is 01:11:48 It dressed up as a man. It is. That's exactly who I'm talking about. In the boo box. It looks like, it looks like that. I just ruined that. I just ruined that single hard for anyone who's seen hook.

Starting point is 01:11:59 Was that intentional? Because I know Christopher's a big hook guy. No, he is. No, but, that's a picture of, that's Ridge.

Starting point is 01:12:09 And like one of his homie he's from St. Mary's County and he like combines their faces together. Yeah. He's incredible. He's crazy, man. But man, what a, what a gift you have having him in your band just for. Yeah, we didn't even think about it like that. And it's just funny how everyone just clicked together, not really knowing one another, you know, and everyone just.

Starting point is 01:12:33 And everyone's different too. Like, none of us are the same. Who's the craziest guy? and this band full of crazy guy, like actually a great. Not like, yeah, he's scary, but like, where you talk to him and you're like, yo, you're a little insane. I feel like differently, it's all of us. Like, Nick is a sweetheart.

Starting point is 01:12:57 Nick is a, his name is Killer. Yeah, his name is Killa. So, I mean, that's him. Yeah. Nick Barker, the drummer, is he's a crazy. guy too he's he's a good drummer he's so good at drums and like he's a crazy guy i don't know i was that's that's the angel right zach is um he's fucking he's pretty crazy too but yeah he's he's sweet i don't know man it's hard to like describe i don't know it's hard to put in the words but i rich is

Starting point is 01:13:30 probably the coot the coocious right which is definitely like the most character you know like He's one of con. He reminds me of the dude from Whose Lines It Anyway? I always forget his fucking name, The tall guy. Colin mockery? No, Ryan Stiles.

Starting point is 01:13:43 Ryan Stiles. Ryan Stiles. He is Ryan Stiles. Like, when Ryan Stiles dies, they should hit Ridge up to take his spot. Straight up. It would work. That's awesome.

Starting point is 01:13:55 Who's it in God's hate? The craziest guy? Yeah. It's kind of secretly Alec. It's secretly Alec. Yeah. He has actual. PTSD from war.

Starting point is 01:14:06 War. Yeah. I don't really know him that well, but I did hear that and he observed. Yeah, he's in Afghanistan. That's why he don't have no knees anymore, you know? He blew him out, Moshing to Carry on in the barracks. He's a legend. Man.

Starting point is 01:14:26 Was there a European country or city that you played on that tour you did? Did you just call me Matt? No, I said, man. I thought you said Matt. So, Matt, when you toured Europe, was there a city that, like, blew you away how good it was that you made you think like, holy shit, my, my New York hardcore band just had an insane reaction in Slovakia. Warsaw, Poland. Like all the Rattel dudes and all them. Josh hard.

Starting point is 01:14:55 Dude, the main, the Rital Prez fucking broke his arm. Like, mosh and darned. On purpose? Like, he was just mosh and really hard and just. to acting up too it was a brand new track yeah he was just fucking popping off he's the older dude too so he is the one who i saw i witness do the gnarliest mosh maneuver i've ever seen what was it where mid spin took somebody's glasses off and smoked them crushed them and kept moshed yeah he he's one of those dudes are like so crazy like how far away people could be but

Starting point is 01:15:34 like they get it yeah like fully we're the same fully understand it um and and the show was like scary like i know body was in the pit for the pot set and afterwards he was like dude body's a hard monster too yeah he is big time and he was like prolific that was that show was fucked up like that was crazy wow i know uh you've traveled a lot met met a bunch of people just just because of the kind of the nature of what hardcore is you know and having brothers who travel a lot you've met a bunch of people have you been to japan before no i'm going friday though that's why that's why i bring it up the the guys over there who get it it's it's unbelievable it's going to be your most favorite place i know i've been told that so many

Starting point is 01:16:23 times i'm just dreading like the i'm not a huge uh like plane guy or traveling guy so that's literally the only part but i know the second i get there i'm going to be so sorry dude you just watch the departed like six times you'll be yeah yeah straight up and then that that was the only place I wasn't ready to leave so I imagine yeah yeah yeah weren't ready to leave I was not ready to leave when the tour in yeah that's crazy and every other time I'm like get me fucking home yeah I'm that guy I'm that guy I keep my cool I never let it really show too much yeah but that's me 100% I want to lay down dude yeah yeah yeah I want to lay down and hang out my cat You love a cat?

Starting point is 01:17:06 Dude, yeah, dude. You got a good cat, though? Yeah. See, that's the thing. I got a shitty one. Oh, okay. So you're a cat. Terrible cat.

Starting point is 01:17:14 Yeah, I love cats. I don't believe in one side of the other, by the way. I have my two cats, but I love a good dog. Are you kidding? Oh, yeah, absolutely. I just like pets in general. Yeah. There's no, like, whenever I talk about cats and someone is like, I like cats,

Starting point is 01:17:30 but I like dogs too. It's like, yeah, no, shit. I fucking like that, too, you, you know. love a good fish, you know? Yeah. Dude, you're talking to the, are you kidding me? Are you the fish king? I have like four fish things.

Starting point is 01:17:41 It's fucked up. It's fucked up. Wow. It's fucked. I'm sorry I didn't know. I got so involved in that shit. It's so crazy. Don't even start.

Starting point is 01:17:52 Don't even start. I kind of just did. Oh, no, no. Oh, buying a fish. Yeah, don't get it. Oh, I won't do that. Oh, don't. Yeah, I had some, and it's expensive. Dude, it's so.

Starting point is 01:18:03 awesome, but it's a lot. It's a lot of work. They start eating each other. I don't know what I'd do in that scenario. Yeah, they just die too. You gotta get the right ones. Yeah, it's crazy. But yeah, dude, I have like four.

Starting point is 01:18:19 No, I got, yeah, three fish tank. Tanks? Yeah, tanks. Three tanks. So you're a fish hobbyist. Yes. An enthusiast. Yes.

Starting point is 01:18:30 What are the odds that I would bring that up? I know. I'm not super. super like just like with anything else technical about it like I don't really know all the names of the pH balance and shit yeah yeah like you have to kind of get involved in that because then they die so I yeah

Starting point is 01:18:46 so I do know a little bit about it okay like anytime I go on tour I come home and the fish tanks are like literally as green as they could be because my brother Danny he's a sweetheart and tries his best I'm sure but is he still playing music with anybody? Dude, my brother Danny

Starting point is 01:19:07 is so good at writing songs. It's absolutely fucking insane. He's only been like his only active band really was backtrack and obviously he came into that. But he

Starting point is 01:19:24 writes like he loves like Dagnasty and like a lot of DC like really DC and he loves Rourkech punk. Like he is the Ramones like you could ask him any anything about the Ramones and he'll fucking know it. And that's like from when he was nine years old, like him and my neighbor, they, uh, they in the, in the basement, they had like a printout from like Microsoft Word of like 70

Starting point is 01:19:48 Ramon songs and Sean would just point to one with the stick and then they'd play it and then just point to another one play it. Like for, what the hell's he doing now? Dude, he's, he has a new thing that he has a lot of shit recorded, you know? And this one, I told them a million times. I was like, dude, you just got to fucking get some people together. I might try that. Like, I kind of want to play drums for it.

Starting point is 01:20:13 But I don't want to not give it. Dude, dude, dude, cat. Yeah, but, like, I'm not a full-time drummer. And I almost feel like it deserves, like, a drummer. You know? Okay. You know what I'm saying? Oh, shit.

Starting point is 01:20:24 Yeah. I'm going to hit him up about the Dagnasty thing. Oh, dude. I want to sing, play guitar in a band like that so bad. Really? Just do it. The reaction. Really? No, no, it's it.

Starting point is 01:20:36 It's just, it's kind of rare. Honestly, I love that shit. I love, can I say. I really know of those bands. Those were like, not even that I got into. Those were just the bands

Starting point is 01:20:48 that I was shown first. You know, like that was like the bridge from like being into like Green Day in Blink 282 and then. So even with Chris and Danny as your hardcore guys, you still were into Blinquent A2

Starting point is 01:21:02 and Green Day. day first early though i'm saying like literally oh like five six yeah like five six years old like i loved all that shit and then well by the time i was 10 christopher was in the band vitalo and then i understood the idea of like starting which is hilarious yeah yeah it's like starting and I was like oh shit like I could actually just like start a band and like play a show

Starting point is 01:21:28 like I don't have to figure out a way to like get to Jones Beach Amphitheater and like figure yeah no you just do it like when I was younger though it was like how the fuck do you even go about like young young like I'm saying like six years old like going to see bands at Jones Beach

Starting point is 01:21:43 amphitheater like Newfound glory and shit and Green Day and Blighway 2 and fucking wondering like how the fuck do you fucking go about doing that but it's funny that like i i'm i'm a few years older than you michael and a few less than you colin but like the enemy of the state came out when i was in i was like 10 fifth grade and i feel like that that that record probably affected i think that is the answer for what we were talking about a while ago colin of like which record impacted the most people it was over with in my kindergarten class for sure.

Starting point is 01:22:21 Yeah. It was popping, dude. It's hilarious. No, for real though. For real. I hated it. And I get that, but like. No, I was already rocking with Sepulterra at that time, you know?

Starting point is 01:22:31 That's crazy. I knew what I wanted. I wanted. He has the most backwards story out of. You have, I would say, a pretty classic story. Yeah. He has the most backwards. Mine is weird.

Starting point is 01:22:41 I want it. Dada, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, immediately. You know? Yeah. And I got lucky. Yeah. That is. fucking awesome because sometimes like i like i'll talk to people now and like i'll be you in our like

Starting point is 01:22:58 like they'll look at me and be like dude like you had it good because their first shows where i go into warp tour and just moshing for like yeah attack attack or something yes which baffles me yeah how do you how which like i you know i'm glad to hear that they got here somehow yeah i totally agree that's not the conversation i'm not i'm not bashing anyone of course whatever but how did you get here from that. Yeah. What is the domino there? It's crazy to like even go like because yeah, like I said, people will be like, oh yeah, like that's crazy. You just got straight into hardcore. I really didn't. I was listening to

Starting point is 01:23:30 punk music. And Danny was listening to like minor threat and dag and descendants and like faster shit. And that's and then that was still like, um, so out of reach I felt like like a show. You know, like going to one of those types of shows. Like I've been to the backyard. shows and shit and some shit like that, like Christopher and his bands. But then when Vital was being backtracked, that was like the first like pit, like hard

Starting point is 01:24:01 pit, yeah, like hard mosh pit. Like everyone in the room with the same agenda, not like some people on the sides like skipping around, like not knowing what was going on. It was like everyone in the room was fucking moshing hard and like receiving and giving out beatings and like no one was fighting. It was just what it was. And it was like, dude.

Starting point is 01:24:18 The way I remember it, I remember being on the computer with him, and he, like, pulled up a video that I'm either practicing somewhere or playing a show to, like, a very small amount of people. Oh, is this backtrack starting? This is backtrack starting. Okay, okay. And he was like, oh, I think I'm going to do this. Like, that's how I want you to play guitar.

Starting point is 01:24:37 And I was like, oh, it's sick. And so the first show I saw with them, yeah. Pretty much the same for me was, like, Taylor being in a band that was playing shows. And it was like, I got to go check this out. So was Taylor just already into like heavy-ass shit? Is that how you got? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:24:55 So he's, he's my guide through everything. Yeah. And he's a reluctant guide at that time, you know? Whereas like what he found laying around, I would, I would then find. Yeah. And he would share some things with me, but then also, you know, fuck you get out of my room. And in that, you know, that, at that age, like Seppelter and Lincoln Park are the same thing. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:25:16 Right. So he's the guy who's going to tell you, like, like, no, they're not idiot. Here's the difference. Yeah. And then you learn like, okay, you're right. I'm an idiot. And these things are different.

Starting point is 01:25:27 But then eventually we grow up and they go, oh, you know what? Can you play this while I play this? Just so I can see how it sounds. Yeah. And then you're in the band. Yeah. Like you know what. That's fucking awesome.

Starting point is 01:25:40 You're pretty good. Have you started a band with, have you considered starting band with the two of them? Yeah. We've like, we've talked about it a bunch of times. I just like starting a random ass hardcore band. I'm just seeing like whatever. You got to call it Vitalo. Bring back Fatalo.

Starting point is 01:25:56 Just bring it back. Dude. Bring it back again. The reunion. Yeah. Dude. Unreal fucking time period though. What were the other Long Island guys like as as guides for you as a young end?

Starting point is 01:26:08 Because it seems like they embraced you very young. The Dan Seleys, the Vitalo's, the Lopez's. It's funny. Like, I want them to listen to and be like, what are you talking about? like I personally feel like I looked up to them immediately all of them I mean they were like the first show they were going to they're all like definitely looking after me and shit but and I think this is a good thing like the way they in terms of the way they treated me like I personally don't feel like I was ever like

Starting point is 01:26:37 handed anything too much like as a band like in a band it wasn't like oh it's just like I I had to like sit on the sidelines just as much as like all the other young bands you I mean, which was cool, you know. No, I wouldn't say that hangman had any particular advantages or anything. Exactly, exactly. So, like, sometimes people like when they first hear about, they're like, oh, this kids just probably got into it or like probably has it easy, you know, like didn't really have to do much to get.

Starting point is 01:27:06 But it was, I was like any other kid that was going to shows at the time. But they definitely always looked out for me. You know what I mean? And as I grew older, I would, dude, I was such a little dickhead when I was young, you know, like fucking just like 15 years, like 15 years older show, like getting wasted and just fucking being stupid. But I think like a lot of them saw me grow up a little bit. And it's just, I, you know, it's just a mutual respect there. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I love all those dudes.

Starting point is 01:27:42 and you know there's other people too that aren't even necessarily like so like Tommy from Sam majority the singer from Sam majority he grew up in Linderhurst and he was always like a key piece like always looked up to him he had I had another similar story where like I got left at a show like I didn't have a ride home and him and then stude Rob that was from Long Island he passed away but they both were walking by the Chinese food spot I was sitting outside and they're like oh are you christian little brother I was like yeah you're like what you just you need a ride home and you're just waiting on here and Chinese food or what

Starting point is 01:28:23 huh you just sitting here eating Chinese food? Yeah yeah yeah I was chilling out like no it was just I actually asked the Chinese food place if I could chill in there because it was like kind of in a weird spot on Long Island and it was in like a shopping mall and the venue shut down that was the only other thing open it was probably like 1130 a night or something. Wow. And I was like fucking 14 years old.

Starting point is 01:28:46 And they just, they stopped and hung out with me like the whole night. And that guy, he's not the easiest guy to talk to. Like for every, you know what I mean? It's not like he's just talking. So I was,

Starting point is 01:28:56 I always looked up to that and like always, I brought that up recently when they were going through everything with, with Rich that passed away, rest of peace of Rich. But yeah, like just that scenario and shit like that. Just like a small act like that. It was like, yeah,

Starting point is 01:29:09 like, it's been like, oh, we don't fucking give a shit about the kid. It's fucking balance. But like little things like that. And, uh, that's how you nurture the young hardcore kids, you know? You just be nice.

Starting point is 01:29:23 Just be nice to these fuckers. They're here to this is, this could change. Every single sentence you say to like a 13, 14, 15 year old hardcore kid could change their life or change their perspective or scare them away. Yeah. Make them, this is,

Starting point is 01:29:37 this is the community. That being said, if you do it, I feel, seen it happen. Like, I feel like if you, like right off the bat

Starting point is 01:29:45 to start like giving them too much though, or like, you know what I'm saying? Like, like you booking them or like putting them on every show or something or just like. They disappear in a year. Yeah, like they might like just think they're hot shit too quick and just fucking.

Starting point is 01:30:01 You gave them the cheat codes. They beat the game too damn room. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So there is like a fine mind there. I feel like. Um,

Starting point is 01:30:08 and I feel like they, all these dudes like i don't know if they knowingly did it but i was always in that spot you know i mean i feel like i always like they never gave me too much uh and let me like figure it out on my own i guess you know which that feels good too especially like now that i'm like throwing respect on it is like absolutely you know it feels good obviously so yeah i love all those dudes john bang's the fucking man oh love him let me ask you this michael if i if i ask you your long island music Mount Rushmore. Ah.

Starting point is 01:30:40 Your big four, Long Island. Now, does that include the city? As you said, they're kind of one thing now? No. So strictly Long Island. All right. Ron Conkima. Lindenhurst,

Starting point is 01:30:55 etc. All the others. Backtrack. They're kind of like half the people. Automatic. Automatic. Backtrack. Vision disorder. sleep sleeper pick

Starting point is 01:31:09 dude it's a hard fucking question because I feel I'm gonna forget someone that's like important yeah but you know what and how many faces are on on the rushpoint 12 it's it's kind of like whatever comes to mind

Starting point is 01:31:25 first is the answer you know yeah yeah all right batch back which is sort of king nine neglect sound majority I love it yeah I love it how many how many faces though are on

Starting point is 01:31:37 There's four, but you know what? On Long Island, there's five. Yeah. It's long as hell. Long Island, Mount Rushmore is, yeah. That's how it works. Tell me about your relationship with Lumpy and days. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:31:51 Because you said Lumpy is kind of like a key role to the band. No, he is. Did he play in Hengman? No, he wasn't in Heng Man. I don't even think he liked Hanged Man that much. Oh, shit, he's lighting it up. I lit it up before, too. In the house?

Starting point is 01:32:07 yeah you're savage dude true pothead vibes yeah it's a nice it's blaz me is that just weed or is there other stuff in there like what dust i don't know i don't know i'm an amateur in the field that's why i'm sorry honestly it's uh i put a little bit of tobacco here my mom you're one of those my mom's really mad if she hears about but europe fucking europe changed you yeah it's fucking really so i put a little bit in there You're Sigmund Freud, dude. I never smoke cigarettes, and yet I'm putting fucking this shit. I hate this thing.

Starting point is 01:32:45 You love them. I know. What flavor is that? Yeah. Pink lemonade or something? Mango sunrise? Strawberry watermelon. Brutal, dude.

Starting point is 01:32:56 Pretty reasonable. Yeah. That's right. You, you know, hard men like strawberry watermelon, too, you know? If you want to be honest, like a week ago and prior that for, like, months. I was on one that was called Cuban cigar. And it was so fucking gross. But for some reason, I liked it, dude. And then you loved it. I went to go get another one. And I think I said it was the same. And then when I started smoking, I was like, what the fuck? And I looked at the flavor and said

Starting point is 01:33:24 coffee tobacco. And I was like, ew, bro. Like, what the fuck? That's disgusting. Cigars are impressive, honestly, because it's like, it's pretty impressive that some scientists somewhere like, perfectly replicated the smell of poop and people just like, people just suck on it all day. I think cigars smell great. I fucking, well,

Starting point is 01:33:43 you love poop. I don't, I don't catch a poop on it. You're a scat man. I hate cigarettes too. Yeah. Oh, they're the worst,

Starting point is 01:33:53 dude. I fucking do. But they look badass. I know. You say that, but they're just such a deal breaker for me. If I catch, if I catch a whiff of cigarette on someone,

Starting point is 01:34:02 it's like an immediate, it like, but like I just mean I'm looking at a cool guy in a leather jacket ripping a sig I'm I'm like I want to interview him you know you're in love with him if you could rip a sig real quick I mean I'll smoke a cigarette every once in a while honestly it's bad like when you've been drinking oh no you don't drink no I don't drink anymore honestly yeah these these came in after I stopped drinking so I probably had something to fucking do with it you needed a vice yeah some space city baby fuck done so yeah so yeah so yeah so yeah Yeah, where does Lumpy, how does he come into the picture?

Starting point is 01:34:38 I mean, I've known Lumpy for like a pretty long time. When like we played shows together when I was in Stand Your Ground, I couldn't try to think of the band that he was probably Brookside, I think it was called, hard-ass bands, honestly. Brookside, dude. Yeah, Brookside. It's a gadget store in the mall. I love it.

Starting point is 01:35:00 But the online, the store. It's the Brooks. So, like, yeah, we used to play a lot of shows. He would just beat fucking ass when we were younger with no regard. Yeah. You know, like, he didn't give a fuck how old anyone was. Like, he would just beat ass out. I would always just stay away from him in pit.

Starting point is 01:35:17 And, like, he was always funny. So we were always pretty tight meeting up at shows. And then as we got older, he was in King 9, obviously. And always stuck around fucking, I don't even know, man. I just knew that he would like the style of the music when I recorded it. That's why I sent it to him. And Days was already a thing or was it just his CD archive at the time? Yeah, he was just posting like videos on there of like old school shit.

Starting point is 01:35:45 I think he put, I think he put Queensway out on vinyl. Yeah. And that was one, that was the first thing that he did. And when I hit him up, it wasn't with the intentions of like really putting it out because he wasn't really doing that. Like he kind of, I think he just did the Queensway thing as like a, something to do. And then, yeah, like I said, he was hit me up.

Starting point is 01:36:07 He hit me up about it, like a month after I originally sent it to him. I was like, oh, you're going to do something with this? Or you should sing on it, blah, blah, blah. And he's your fucking, he produced the band. He's the manager. He hyped me up on it, too, because I wasn't like, I didn't see the bigger. He was like, dude, just could be like the biggest fucking, you know. You know, but.

Starting point is 01:36:31 And then you did. you fucking co-headlined every American festival with seven songs out. Yeah. It's fucking awesome. So thank you Lumpy for seeing the vision there. Lumpy is very, very smart, like in a wrestler,

Starting point is 01:36:43 wrestling terms smart. He's very like, he'll pull up to the gig and flip flops and like, say the most wisest. I wouldn't be surprised if he was the reason why we did the two headliners. Like he might have been like the one that was like, nah, you should just headline this shit.

Starting point is 01:36:57 Like I think, honestly? Yeah. Because I feel like Billy Club was on the first day. I was like, yo, Billy Club's gonna have on. He was like,

Starting point is 01:37:03 dude, like, I feel like he was the one. I was like, honestly, you should just fucking, you could just do it, you know.

Starting point is 01:37:11 It's such a cool idea. And it shows, like, that is the bands underneath you, like nurturing Michael, the guy they've watched grow up. Yeah. And being like,

Starting point is 01:37:24 Michael's fucking band is going to do this and we're going to help him do it. Yeah. It's fucking awesome. And that doesn't happen without the 10 plus years of grinding. done before in other bands and as just they see the guy they've seen in the pit their whole life

Starting point is 01:37:36 telling them like hey this is i'm doing this now so yeah help me yeah yeah and they go okay that's hardcore yeah that's why we're here past the torch fuck yeah i love a torch let me ask you an important question yeah let's hear it how many mcdongots do you think you could eat in one dude honestly I don't really love McDonald's I need the conversation I'm here to come up thank you so much for watching

Starting point is 01:38:04 this has been yeah I've had my years of eating McDonald's I stopped kind of recent like you know after I stopped

Starting point is 01:38:13 yeah but let me tell you something crazy that you guys don't drink but you eat McDonald's honestly because the second I stopped drinking I was like dude I can't believe I'm eating this like it's no you're going to the wrong locations

Starting point is 01:38:25 is what it is that's operator You got to bring that shit back right now. My order was two McDonald's with mac sauce on it. And I would get a McChicken. And sometimes I'd like get an extra McDouble and smash me together. Make one of the McKaynecks. That's a good order.

Starting point is 01:38:45 And I could smash a 20 piece. I've done it. So probably probably the most I could eat until I start throwing out, probably like 40. Yeah. See it. A reasonable man Sad All right

Starting point is 01:39:00 Sad I'm sad I'm sad You know You can do better I think I could eat 20 gordita crunches from Taco Bell See that's

Starting point is 01:39:08 That's about 100 nuggets right there Yeah Cheezing gordita crunch That's a heavy item That is a heavy item It's so good That's two shells I know

Starting point is 01:39:18 It's so good So Taco Bell That's your that's your advice Yeah that's my go too Is that the one That one's stuck around So Hmm

Starting point is 01:39:26 Are there any vegans in pain of truth or vegetarians? No. Are there any fast food spots that you veto that you just won't do? Because like you said, you stopped eating McDonald's, but it's not like if that's the only thing open, you would eat. No, yeah. Like when we were in Europe, we were eating McDonald's and shit. Because that's the only fucking thing open.

Starting point is 01:39:45 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But like when I get home, I really don't. I haven't been there since. But, I don't know. I get, oh, what a burger fucking sucks. the self. They're coming for you now. I mean, it's a mid-tier fast food burger, 100%.

Starting point is 01:40:05 It's not better than Wendy's. It has no business being in the conversation as... Yeah. I can talk about this all fucking day, man, Michael. You've opened a real can of water. It's so funny that you guys love fast food so much. It's awesome. Let me ask you this, Michael.

Starting point is 01:40:20 This is a very important question. Yeah. How many McNuggets do you think I could eat in one soon? I guess. I guess like, if you brought up 100? Oh, 200. He thinks he could do 200.

Starting point is 01:40:36 It's seven and a half pounds of food. Easy. That's so crazy. Yeah, it's crazy in like saying, I can fly when I want to. Because it's just not possible. What if you die from the experience of trying to reach that goal? Can happen.

Starting point is 01:40:50 Then it wasn't easy, but I did it, you know? No. It'd be a crazy way to go out. That's how that works. Well, because, so in Cool Hand Luke, he eats 50 eggs, right? 50 hard-boiled eggs. Sure. And then there's an infamous story about how Marlon Brando was like a crazy eater

Starting point is 01:41:09 amongst many other vices. But he was like he had a crazy appetite. And at like an Oscars party or something challenged Paul Newman. Right. Who wouldn't do it. Or is, yeah, Paul Newman, who wouldn't do it. He called him a coward and he ate 51. I just brought it up to see if you believe.

Starting point is 01:41:27 just a test to see if you believed in me. You said 200, right? Yeah, yeah. I believe in you. Okay. It's a lot. It's 250. So that's 5.5 pounds.

Starting point is 01:41:40 Okay. What was the most you've ever eaten so far? In one sitting? Yeah. Like 80. But that's not true. But that's not where they're gun to my dog's head, which is the other part of this scenario. It was also hours apart.

Starting point is 01:41:55 What is the most you've ever eaten? No, recently, after that, I did 80. That's hilarious. You did 80. Okay. For recreation. Without a gun to my dog's head. You factor in the gun, I'm going 800.

Starting point is 01:42:07 The first time I ever ate Chipotle, for some reason, the very first time, I had three tacos and a burrito. You just couldn't believe it? And there's no way I could do that again. Now I can barely finish a burrito from there. You love Chipotle, Michael? No. My man. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:42:24 What do you eat at home? Pizza? You want to know why I hate Chipotle the most? Absolutely. E. coli. I got to throw respect on this place, too, anyway. Ruby Soho? No, no.

Starting point is 01:42:36 I mean, that place is awesome, too. No, me and all my brothers worked at this Chinese food stop down the block from my house as busboys, like one by one. Like, Eddie worked there as a busboy. Christopher worked there as a bus boy. That's so good. Danny worked there was a bus boy,

Starting point is 01:42:50 and then I worked there as a busboy. There was always a Smith. Dude, bomb-ass Chinese food. Like, ask Scanlon. like scandin knew about it like people people caught on and then i don't know what they had going on it was a it was kind of sketchy like however they were open like i don't i don't really know it was exactly good with it but they closed down like super out of nowhere and then a fucking chippole bought it and like didn't even keep the building like the building it was in it was

Starting point is 01:43:17 so fucking dope and they just fucking cleared out and the next day there it felt like there was just like a fucking chippole there it was that just sealed the deal i'm I already hated it. I already hated it. But one, I had to bring up tanks because it's legendary. And two, fuck Chapo-Lang place. So it's on-site with Chapolet is what you're saying. So that's the answer then.

Starting point is 01:43:39 That's the one you would veto. Yeah, honestly, yes. Except for women were giving everyone free food. That was that time period. Yeah. It was a magical time. You just pick the guy in the band that could like speak the best, which was always. Hello, I'm Dave.

Starting point is 01:43:54 Jim. It was me. It was me. It was you? Yeah. Because I always had, I had fucking telemarketing jobs. I was always on the phone. I had, I had a voice.

Starting point is 01:44:04 Harold from Coya would do it for Hangman. He would always be the one. He'd like, get like, ready for it and be like, all right, I'm going to call. Everybody's shut up. Yeah, yeah, exactly like that. When you said Hangman, were they ever like, oh. Oh, we would lie. We would lie about our name.

Starting point is 01:44:19 Oh, okay. We were never a harm's way. Yeah, we were a throwdown. And occasionally it bites you in the ass. And a guy goes, I ain't seen y'all in a while, man. Y'all look different. You go, yeah? Remember line-up changes, you know?

Starting point is 01:44:34 You know how it is. You ever, Long Island's kind of a spooky place historically, Michael. Yeah, a little bit. Y'all got Amityville there. That's one. Amityville. I was listing off ones earlier. That's a good one.

Starting point is 01:44:51 That's a town. You ever see a ghost? I feel something coming. I don't know. It's hard. It's hard. I don't want to. It's easy.

Starting point is 01:45:06 Maybe. That's a good answer. That's a fair answer. I don't completely believe in like visual ghost. But you've seen something you can't explain. Yes. Yeah. You know, whether it was real or if I was just,

Starting point is 01:45:25 I turned in my head too quick and saw something. I don't fucking know. Sure. Do you care to share? Oh, you want to hear the story? I want to hear about it. It's almost October, man. Yeah, we're gearing up.

Starting point is 01:45:38 Dude, if you want me to be honest, I don't know if it was my vertigo, because I had pretty bad vertigo. It wasn't true. It couldn't have possibly been your bed of it. This happened, like, literally, like, it could have been this morning or yesterday, and I was washing my hands

Starting point is 01:45:55 in the sink and it looked like there was a bunch of like gray hair like floating like to my right and this is like during the day it wasn't at night or something where it was like pitch black like it was like during the day and like it was just like a fucking ball of floating gray hair it seemed and it was like spread apart like pretty long and i quick turn and obviously it wasn't there but i felt weird after it and yeah the cbjvs Yeah, and like, um, I don't know, the, the house that I'm in, like, is, like, it was, like, there was weird people there before. So, like, I don't know what they're into. Um, so it's like, what's that the grudge, juan, the fucking, br- Yeah.

Starting point is 01:46:45 You know, this is the first time somebody's had a story about where the person wasn't tired. That's, well, what, so a common thread amongst all ghost stories that, that, that we've ever come across. As a matter of fact, someone who I talked about this to a couple days ago, it was a nighttime thing. It's like when they're wakes up or something. It's always around sleep. And it's like, yo, when we're falling asleep, you think a crazy shit every single night. Yeah, that happens all the time. Or our mind is open to the rest of the world. Yeah. I mean, you're on my, that's my shit. I mean, I mean, look, it's like I said, it's like I said, there's Wi-Fi around us all the time.

Starting point is 01:47:27 No, no, no. What I'm saying is we don't know how to perceive it yet. So maybe there's... No, I know how to perceive it. It's Wi-Fi. That's how we make this happen. No, no. The head, right here, that's something else.

Starting point is 01:47:38 Oh, yeah, that was weird. Wait, were you on the dream thing before, though? Like, saying, like, different, like, dimensions and shit. Is that where you're... Oh, that's... That's a whole other conversation, brother. Yeah. What are dreams?

Starting point is 01:47:51 Huh? Dude, what are they? I was just going to say... they're going to kill me if I say this on on recording no I'm fucking them I'm yeah them no but like it's crazy to me I just can't believe that like think about how crazy dreams are that yeah yeah roughly like you could say every night for some people yeah yeah I'd be dreaming happens to happens to some people every day some other people every once in a while still have oh reoccurring serious shit happening in

Starting point is 01:48:24 there. Yeah. And then like they just tell you yeah, you're just dreaming. Like it's just dreaming. In the dream? No, I'm just saying no, just like just like, yeah. They're fucking making it lighter than what it is. Oh, them. Yeah. No, for sure. They'd be doing that. Dude, I, I've been having really, I take this supplement. The one I gave you in, in England, Colin, where you, when you did sleep a ton. That ZMA shape, it gives you really, really crazy dreams. ZMA, it's zinc, magnesium and something that starts with an A. think you need that though. No, I definitely don't, but I do take it anyway.

Starting point is 01:48:58 Why? Did it make you knock out? No, he sleeps for 23 hours a day. It makes you sleep. It makes you sleep. No. So what it does is when you fall asleep, it keeps you asleep. It doesn't hit like a Benadryl or something. But what you do? I still fell asleep at like

Starting point is 01:49:14 4 a.m. UK time, but I woke up at like noon. Yeah. But this is poignant for the date that we're recording this. The most recent intense stream I had. I was on a plane as it crashed into the World Trade Center. Oh shit.

Starting point is 01:49:29 What's the fuck, dude. It was so, it was so intense that I woke myself up by yelping. I was like, and I woke up in my bed. That's crazy. Fucking so intense. I remember literally like,

Starting point is 01:49:42 buckle up, like people screaming. And it was like, holy shit. That brings up a good, a good question for my, yeah, where were you?

Starting point is 01:49:50 Where were you on September 11th? Um, I was in my, I think I was in second grade. I was in class. You were right there. Yeah, I was fucking close, dude. I brought someone home with me, like one of my childhood friends,

Starting point is 01:50:06 like came back with me because his dad was NYPD. Oh, shit. Yeah. Yeah. And he was freaking out, yeah. And I mean, we were young, but I think, if I remember correctly, I'm pretty sure my mom just told me exactly what was happening immediately. Wow.

Starting point is 01:50:21 Yeah. I was in eighth grade. a lady and she was just like yeah just fucked up like and she couldn't call my dad I don't think and like he does work in the city all the time she didn't know what he was so I remember it being like

Starting point is 01:50:36 pretty crazy I mean obviously I mean like yeah but even being young and like I grab 100% didn't grasp fully but I did understand like that who told you your mom told you? We were in class I'm on the same time zone

Starting point is 01:50:52 as you I remember being in school So was I. At first time. Yeah, yeah. I was in school. And yeah, they sat us. We all had to get back in our seats. From what I remember, my teacher said that some of us were probably going to be going home and that there was like an emergency.

Starting point is 01:51:09 But anyone who's staying, something good deal, whatever, blah, blah, blah. But yeah, I remember going to my house and TV was on. Like, you know. That TV, CNN was on in my house for fucking four weeks. Yeah, I did. Nonstop. Yeah, it was fucked up. I mean,

Starting point is 01:51:25 I was in, I was in Miss Kreschow's eighth grade English class and they put it on the fucking TV. Damn, and we saw the second plane hit and then the fuck off. And then the towers fall. Right. Watched it happen. I remember when that English class let out,

Starting point is 01:51:42 none of us went home or anything in the changing period in the hallway. I screamed at the top of my lungs, we're all going to die. Because I didn't realize what was happening. Like you said. I didn't really. Yeah. It was just like, oh,

Starting point is 01:51:55 a bill, like surely everyone was out of the building if they knew if it was, you know what I'm saying? Like I didn't, I didn't know. Were you joking? Of course.

Starting point is 01:52:02 Oh, okay. Everyone was like screaming shit. But you were scared of like Blair Wish and stuff. I figured maybe you were like, oh my God. This was, uh,

Starting point is 01:52:10 this was too abstract. And it wasn't until I got home. I live, I grew up not too far from O'Hare and there were no airplanes in the sky and that was weird. Yeah. And then we had the second, we had the talk. building in the city or in the country at that point.

Starting point is 01:52:26 That's what I remember the fear being a base route. It's like, who's next? Who's next? Exactly. And it was fucking, that was scary. I remember that was like, oh,

Starting point is 01:52:34 this can happen. This is a thing now that can. I mean, it was fucked up for us too. I remember like, uh, because we're just on the island and like, if you wanted to get off the island,

Starting point is 01:52:47 you pretty much had to pass the 20, like you, like if you were gone. Yeah, right. Yeah, like you'd, usually see the Twin Towers if you're driving past the city.

Starting point is 01:52:56 So like, and just the fact that like the islands on meant, it wasn't built for as many people that are actually here now. So, and even then. So like, if something bad happens, like, in general and people have to leave, like, it's, it would be fucked. Like, and it was fucked that day. Like, just trying to, like, just trying to, like. Long Island has the worst traffic I've ever been.

Starting point is 01:53:20 Yeah, the roads aren't designed for. as many people is like better here you know like yeah they were built so long ago even like a lot of the parkways and shit like they're just like the off ramps and shit or like they feel like they're like five feet long like you know what I mean it's just like yeah it's not take a trailer and you can't drive a van on them for some reason yeah yeah Christ ones you can't yeah it's fucking brutal well you know it's because the fucking bridges they built man long ago I'm pretty sure a lot of it's because some of the overpasses are so low like it would just take the top off it happens You'll be driving and see like a fucking tractor trailer with like the top of it clean off because it tried to go on a parkway and like try to go into the British.

Starting point is 01:54:02 So that's why. Do you guys remember flying at all before September 11th? You're younger. So I don't know if you remember flying. I do. I do remember. Like how different it was. It was so easy.

Starting point is 01:54:13 Yeah, for sure. I mean, yeah, back then, I mean before that I would have never even. I thought flying was fucking dope. I loved, like, going to Florida and seeing my grandparents and shit. Like, wouldn't even think twice about getting it on an airplane. You know what I mean? But after that, I mean, it was just like, that's just the world that we grew up in after that. I mean, there was like, there's literally like a hard line change, like after that day.

Starting point is 01:54:43 Oh, yeah, yeah. It's just embedded in everyone's. Worldwide, really. Dude, it's a joke in the office, but, like, our whole generation had to process this. Oh, yeah, dude. It's fucked. And like, you know, no matter what age you were, like, there's like really bad parts of it being young, like that young and being exposed to that is probably crazy. Being an eighth grader and being exposed to that is crazy.

Starting point is 01:55:08 And then, dude, I mean, we talked about this another time, but then when when we invaded Afghanistan, that was the same year I had to sign up for the draft. So that's like, that's lingering on my mind too Where it's like If this gets out of control I'm going to war like it was like It's very intense and it all started with this shit It was fucking wild Yeah, dude

Starting point is 01:55:34 In New York I imagine it I was only two hours from New York But I wasn't there The way that it united people Was a crazy thing to remember Yeah Dude Fuck yeah the flags on cars

Starting point is 01:55:47 Like you fucking roll around New York now I mean it's like it's so fucking dead like people like yeah like people treat each other like shit you know what I mean people really fucking I mean that's everywhere that's fucking everywhere and then something like that it takes something like that to like yeah you know I mean which is fuck but that's just yeah it is that's just the way shit is I mean the fucking the flags flags on cars everywhere yeah my dad had them like everybody had them you know like It was fucking...

Starting point is 01:56:21 Yeah, it's crazy. Let's go back to Painter Truth a little bit. That's enough 9-11. Enough 9-11. Who was the first feature that you asked? Martin from Billy Club, actually. Very nice. Yeah, I asked him, and then he did that track,

Starting point is 01:56:41 and then Josh Lice question was just like at my house during COVID. I just drove from Philly, even though we all thought we were going. going to die. He was just like joking about it too. We're just like, this is currently. Like we just didn't know how serious. So what was, yeah, but we had no idea. Yeah, we halted the God's hate record completely.

Starting point is 01:57:00 Yeah, he just like drove up from Philly anyway and just like hung out with us all summer. And we just woke up and I was finishing recording it. And I was like, oh, you want to come with me? And he was like, oh, you're like, yeah, do this fucking part really quick. Let's see if it sounds good. So then that was two out of four songs. And I don't know if I just have like, it. CD, right?

Starting point is 01:57:21 Yeah. Looking at the songs and it just being like not just one. Now it's like two. For some ways in my head, I was like, I can't not. I have to get. Got to do them all. I got to just do them all. And Celie was actually the last one to do it, I think.

Starting point is 01:57:38 But yeah. I really like, I like the, I like Steve's, the 200 stab wounds one on the new one. Fuck yeah. I think that part is awesome. And I think I want to talk to you about the T-U-I, the Justice one, because there's a lot going on with that. He put his whole ass into that one. Yeah, there's like layers. What's like there's like a talking part?

Starting point is 01:58:03 Yeah, dude. I mean, yeah. It's crazy because when I wrote the lyrics for it and like first heard it all laid out, I was like, yo, like, it sounded good with me on it. Like it sounded cool, but I just could not stop hearing Justice's voice, like when I'd hear it. I was just like, yo, him on it would just, it just sounded like a lost TUI track or something. Yeah. And I just, the way he sings and shit, I was like, yeah, with his voice on there, it just sounds so fucking perfect. And he really did the, like the TUI voice.

Starting point is 01:58:40 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is cool. He did. He fucking brought it back. And he sound, but he sounds like a little bit older. It's cool. Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:58:47 So. It's, it's funny. that it's like mostly kind of a positive song you know a little bit in a way that's like hey man oh yeah come up yeah and then it goes pit to pit at the end yeah abruptly yeah yeah love I mean I wrote that shit about fucking just like losing classic like losing people over drugs and shit and just seem people fucking get into that shit but there is like positive side to it they're right because it's like hey man yeah i'll help you just yeah exactly yeah of course that's exactly let's go from the top let's look at this track list here life was on the ground with uh with anthony

Starting point is 01:59:28 yeah and john too and john yeah you were opening with this one for a while before the record came out yeah that was one that i wrote um i wrote that in the no blame just facts like error uh like i was that was contender for the first track on that so It was either the test or lifeless. You held off for the LP, but I've been there. Yeah. I don't know. I'm happy that I ended up putting the test out first, I think.

Starting point is 02:00:00 100%. And I think this is a perfect, like, LP opening track. Yeah. It has a big intro that really feels like the pain of truth. Honestly, Lumpy didn't want that to be the intro. He wanted this falls on you to be the intro. And I was just telling him, I was just, like, that is a good intro too. but I just I couldn't picture this song in the middle.

Starting point is 02:00:20 I was like it didn't make any sense to me. There is a certain thing with writing that's kind of like it's first or it's out? Yeah. You know what I'm talking about. You know, I'm not very like musically inclined in some like, but when I like hear something, when I have it pictured in my head a certain way,

Starting point is 02:00:36 it's like, dude, some things I'll budge on. Some things I'll budge on and be like, oh, that, you know, like it's good to have another set of eyes on it. But that I was like, nah, it's going to be the first track.

Starting point is 02:00:46 That's got to be. And if, you know, it's worthy of an opening track, it has the cool, the big fucking on the ground, Mosh call is badass. Yeah, fuck yeah. Track two, in your heart was Scott Bobel. Yeah. That's a big acquisition.

Starting point is 02:01:00 He might be the guest spot king. Yeah. In all of hardcore. Yeah. And also kind of the, the trailblazers with that. Because like live, they would always have people doing parts. Their merch guy sang like the, did like the coolest guest. spot whoever it was.

Starting point is 02:01:18 Yeah. So that's kind of a cool full full circle thing. Yeah, for sure. Tell me about that. Tell me a little bit about that song. Putting that together, getting Scott. That was,

Starting point is 02:01:27 I just quit a job that was just, I was like selling, I'm not going to say what it was because I want them to fucking hear it. But still like no people there, but I was, I left and like, they were just fucking bullshit in me. And I just knew it.

Starting point is 02:01:43 So it was like a mixture of that. ends also like steaming through people in the scene too um so it's like a combination of both things like coming into my head as I was writing it but it is like a hard like mainly about just like whether or not fucking hardcore like when you're into that shit

Starting point is 02:02:06 like you know from day one like the second it's introduced you a clicks right away it's not rare I don't think it's super rare yeah and when you meet somebody you know if they're if it's actually in their heart. So, yeah. So, like, that's what it ended up. I did start the song by,

Starting point is 02:02:25 with the idea of it, like, being about, like, the shitty job that I was at. And about, like, them just trying to, like, teaching me a sales pitch and then bullshitting me and changing the words around and, like, the subject matter, but pretty much it's the same pitch that they're trying to sell me to get me to do some shit for them. And I'm like, dude, you just taught me this pitch fucking,

Starting point is 02:02:45 15 minutes not 15 minutes ago you just saw me this fucking two months ago yeah like you're using the same wording on me and the same like give and take whatever the fuck it is

Starting point is 02:02:55 yeah I mean it's like yeah yeah I don't need that shit and who better than to talk about what what's in somebody's heart than Scott you know yeah are you kidding me that's like yeah that was another piece of it too I was trying to think of like that one he

Starting point is 02:03:09 me and him talked about him being on a track um prior so like when that when I've heard that song, I was like, ah, this just sounds like, like, one with the underdog song or something, you know? Like, yeah. Yeah. For vocal.

Starting point is 02:03:24 And, yeah, I think I kind of like started gearing it more towards, like, the hardcore, like, halfway through the song because that's when I realized Scott was probably going to be on that track. And I was like, I don't want to, like, make a song about my shitty job. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you could listen to it and put it to that. You can adapt that to anybody. Anybody has that experience.

Starting point is 02:03:46 Yeah, exactly. Absolutely. So, like, the song could really, like, be put to anything that you got going on. But I did base it around hardcore by the end of it, you know. Of course. Love it. Acting up. We've talked about.

Starting point is 02:04:00 Was this the first single? Yeah, acting up was the first one. How what? What's now listening to it with Stab wounds man over that part sounds like I can't picture anybody else there now just because of the vibe they're kind of like one syllable per kick drum type or all that metal performance perfect mixture what made you want to get him on there um me to bless him with this moment yeah yeah me like us and them kind of i i want to say they came out either during the pandemic or maybe right before but i know they started playing shows like i think

Starting point is 02:04:36 during the pandemic i remember seeing a video and i was like dude like i just thought they were sick right off the bat and i thought it was cool that they were playing the show And I think I might have hit them up like early on and just like through respect on it. I was like, oh, shit and stope. Like, respect for just fucking going and playing a show. Like, that's awesome. And then they came down to play our first show. So, and then any time that we roll through, I think it's Pittsburgh.

Starting point is 02:05:03 Anytime we're in Pittsburgh, they're there. So they must live, but I don't really know exactly what they're in Ohio. Ohio, yeah. So anytime we like play Pittsburgh, like they run. roll out. And we just have a cool relationship, you know, like two different styles of music, but like I know they're genuinely hardcore kids. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 02:05:23 And there's certain bands like that that click with me too. So like, that's just like, yeah. I mean, that song fucking rocks. That was an amazing first single. Yeah. Fuck, yeah, dude. Yeah, and I feel like it just like had the vibe too. Like when I first sang the chorus or the verse or whatever it is, this look

Starting point is 02:05:42 motherfucker part. I wanted like yeah like I wanted myself to sound like the way he did for you know what I mean like like that's usually how it comes about and I think I'm like I wish I sounded like that you know what I mean like but I don't know how to

Starting point is 02:05:58 fucking I just don't sound like that so yeah just see if he's down to fucking do it you know originally he sang like a little bit of the first like the first time it comes in like I had him in there a little bit but we ended up taking it out everyone I think it's perfect as like the build to it.

Starting point is 02:06:16 All right. Yeah. Fair enough. That's what everyone likes. Yeah, that's what everyone else. That's what everyone, that's what Lumpby was said. That's what Lumpby was saying to. You got to earn it. You earn it. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 02:06:26 It was just a little taste though. It was a little taste in the beginning. That's where I was coming from. Now it's the big moment. Yeah. Rather than like, oh, he's coming. Yeah. It's like, oh, he came.

Starting point is 02:06:37 Yeah. Oh. You and me, Painted Truth and Madball. Wow. your favorite you said it's your favorite you hate all the other ones no honestly well you asked what my favorite like guest spot was and it's just the fact that it's the coolest one like of course all of these people would say it's the coolest one

Starting point is 02:07:00 yeah this is it's an achievement as a new york thing it's like it's a poetic but scott would say freddie was the coolest one i was gonna bring it up before there was a while where like when I was young and madball play and then I'd see him after or something you know

Starting point is 02:07:16 I'd be like oh let's say what's up real quick to say like like good set or something you know I walk up and they didn't care

Starting point is 02:07:23 like that was little or nothing like he'd two or three guys like whoa like no he's not like talking to people right now you know

Starting point is 02:07:31 like he just played you know what I mean he kind of made something yeah yeah oh shit so that it was like that I never really never really like

Starting point is 02:07:38 talk to him much you know and then um play the thompson or we we went to the thompson park uh show that was like during covid yeah yeah yeah and like we had a little moment there um after i moshed on the stage and he is that we we talked like we talked a little bit after that set and i think that's when he found out that uh i was like oh you know my brother chris like you guys went to europe together he was like oh dude and the other one too right and i was like yeah so you remember chris and danny he got it and then um yeah we just like kind of started going back and forth he learned more like once paying truth was like playing more shows and shit i think he like caught wind of it and uh then that's

Starting point is 02:08:25 why we started he he hit me up about shows like playing shows together and um that's it just like was organic you know that's it was sick because it just came kind of full circuit Beautiful. Hardcore. Yeah. Best thing ever. This falls on you with Shane Moran. Back from the dead, dude.

Starting point is 02:08:46 He brought him back to life, dude. I know. It's awesome. Tell me about that. Dude, I just thought the song. I wrote that track too on guitar. That was one of my songs too. And like right off the bat, right?

Starting point is 02:08:58 When I was writing it, like with the drums I had pictured in my head, I was just like that like, I think it's just as deserved like the bad seed track with like all the tombs in the intro that dan did the get did did did is that justice is there yeah yeah um i was just i was just picturing like the beginning having like crazy rolled out like thoms or something and i was like i got the way it pictured in my head i was like i kind of sound like bad seed track like similar vibe so that's why and then and yeah and me and him like when i was super young and they played long island they were like i could not believe bad seed when i was like they were amazing i don't Yeah.

Starting point is 02:09:38 The name, the logo, the fact they were in title fight, but they were playing these hard-ass songs. Like, the whole thing to me, I was just like, whoa. Like, that's me. Like, I love, like, soft shit like that. But then I like playing hard music, like, you know? Yeah. And I just thought that was so fucking sick. So, and he, you know, we met when I was a young-ass kid.

Starting point is 02:10:01 And he was kind of like, he was at a hangman show in Wilkes Bear, like, small-ass show. we chopped it up there a little bit um and we always just kind of kept in touch like and uh I sent him the track and he was like dude like honestly I'm sure he was super psyched and grateful to be a part of it honestly I like I love paying truth honestly and I've been you know trying to kind of get back in

Starting point is 02:10:27 into it uh and you know he appreciated me thinking about him he was like I was surprised he was like no one's ever asked me and I was like pretty fucking I'm happy I did. Yeah, nobody asking him is crazy. Because the mark that Batside made in such a short span of time was pretty massive. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 02:10:47 He sounds totally different, too. It's crazy. He does sound different. Yeah. He was a wee lad in Batsy. Yeah, yeah. Ladd seed. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 02:10:55 They're all young, right? Yeah. Michael's headphones just died, so he's going to sound a little different, but you're going to bear with us. It's going to be fine. Not too much longer. Too late featuring Justice Traffman Rice.

Starting point is 02:11:08 This was a Ridge track. Pit to pit to pit at the end. Beautiful. Let me ask you, Michael. When it came to Justice doing what he does on the track, did you just let him kind of run with it?

Starting point is 02:11:30 I mean, I had... Because it's very, you know, it's very to you. It's like very much his style. I had the, he used all the same lyrics. I think we might have changed up like, he might have changed a couple of them up, like one or two. But I really didn't give him too much.

Starting point is 02:11:51 I think like there was actually a lot of, I'm the worst dude with like texting as you can imagine. And like the worst was like shit like that. So I think he might have been, there was a point where he's like, dude, I have no idea what you want me to do. Yeah, I sent him like time. stamps and shit like in my own way and he was probably like to yeah what the fuck is this

Starting point is 02:12:10 yeah I mean but so I don't even I really don't think I explained that that well and I like what I wanted but honestly I think the way I pictured it is like the way I came out like I think he knew he's a pretty talented dude I feel like he knew big time he knew what was what was good and like what he was going to be doing you know yeah so when we did the one with me on it You were very much like, here's my idea, but do your thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that kind of the way it was with everybody? Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 02:12:42 I do that. Like, you know, I don't want to ask someone to do it and I'd be like, you have to sing my shit. You know, if someone's like, yeah, I don't want to change this. I'm like, all right, do it up. I mean, if it sounds bad or like if like everybody's like, I like it the other way better, then maybe we would change it or something. Sure. For the most part, I let everyone.

Starting point is 02:13:02 Everybody killed it. Yeah. And picking at scraps in particular with Austin Sparkman and Jay. Yeah, yeah. I'm trying to think how like Austin, I think like Austin was supposed to do a different song. But I think I sent a file for picking it scraps. I was supposed to send a different one. So like I sent I sent him like all the lyrics, the same kind of thing.

Starting point is 02:13:29 like I sent him like timestamps and shit and he was like bro these are not matching up at all so fucking confused I'm pretty sure or something like that so then he he just sang like

Starting point is 02:13:43 random parts on Picking at Scraps and then we're like oh shit like because Picking of Scraps is very much like yeah Long Island and New York and Hudson Valley

Starting point is 02:13:54 and then Austin's like guys I'm I live in Boston I know it's hilarious it's awesome it's awesome that's what I'm saying that's it perfectly

Starting point is 02:14:03 some people like just take it so fucking serious you know like we're or maybe not take it serious or think like we're taking it very like it's sick I love it and that's exactly

Starting point is 02:14:17 how I want it to end it's perfect but then you have Austin who is like that's a talented musician and and song that's what makes it even funnier you know what I mean it's great It's like, and it's just dope, dude. Austin's been around for so fucking long.

Starting point is 02:14:33 Always looked up to him. 100%. He's a lifer for sure. And so it was like, we could have just took his parts out and just had Jay just do the whole thing, but it was like, no, dude, that's just. That's way cooler. Let's just fucking leave it. Yeah, I mean.

Starting point is 02:14:48 Yeah. Because he didn't really do the parts that for that song I would have done the guest spots for. Like he did his own thing. But it's awesome. Yeah. Like and then I was like

Starting point is 02:14:59 Different times Are accentuated And that's that's like top three tracks for me Yeah Yeah Out of our hands Track 8 Featuring the Movie Life man

Starting point is 02:15:09 Yeah That's a wild one That's yeah Dude I mean I've had a movie Like the movie life poster In my room for like Since I was like five years old

Starting point is 02:15:17 So I've fucking To me that Like You know I'm like There's no difference From like Vinnie to like Votw

Starting point is 02:15:27 in terms of like my perception of like how they influence me you know what I mean like even like me like different things like to me it was always the same shit on Long Island in general it's like the vibe here is like everything is kind of hardcore so right so to me like I totally understand why someone would be like what the fuck does so crazy but like it really does he sound like that in the movie life dude he sounds like that yes like live that's what I realized I was watching I'm the avalanche and I was I was like, dude, I love this dude. I've looked up to him for so long.

Starting point is 02:16:02 And if you put a hard-ass track behind him, it's going to fucking sound dope. Like, he's screaming. Yeah, it sounds wild. Yeah, he's screaming. That's how he screams, like, alive, you know? He didn't really do anything like that. I had no idea. So it was, that was just like a cool, cool kind of thing.

Starting point is 02:16:22 And I might be tripping, but. besides Brandon from Incendiary, who's the only other Long Island guy. Oh. Wow. It's funny. It's funny to think you had that poster when you were five and he's singing on your song. By comparison, that would be like me having like Scotty Pippen on a harm. Like at five, I had no.

Starting point is 02:16:48 It's actually, it's an Atticus poster. It has like Blingway 2 on it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Life, Bain is on it. Yep.

Starting point is 02:16:57 Wow. American Nightmare. It's like a... Right. I remember. I remember it. Honestly, like... That too.

Starting point is 02:17:05 Like, that, too. Like, that, like, I always fucking love that poster because it was, like, a bunch of bands in one thing. Yeah. Always love that. Finally. Always love it. One poster, many bands. Dude. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:17:19 We got a brand back. One record. One record. Many bands. One record. One record. Many bands. we just that atticus poster yeah just unlocked the key to paint of truth that's why you did it

Starting point is 02:17:31 dude real recognizes real oh my god you know what i mean like the idea of it like the song is so sick breakdown is so sick um but it's more so like the idea of the track and like the fact that all those dudes were like yeah let's all do this like even that like that drove that gave me the idea to do that shit for painting truth and it's like all right, let's do that, but just a whole fucking record instead of just one track. That's what we did for the Valley Beyond. It was just got that, but Valley guys. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:18:02 That's the coolest. That's, yeah, that's tales all the time. It's a proven formula to be awesome. Yeah. Same old story, the only song with no track. Yeah, I mean, it's just like an instrumental thing. Yeah. It's badass.

Starting point is 02:18:14 Yeah, Killa and Nick wrote that. Killa and Nick? Killa and Nick is the drummer. Nick Barber's a drummer. Oh, okay. Yeah, it's Killa and Nick. killing Nick and Nick very nice

Starting point is 02:18:27 yeah under my skin with old Joby on there the other guest spot king yeah yeah always delivers yeah he's

Starting point is 02:18:37 his voice is obviously super unique iconic always love criminal instincts you know they're an era defining band for sure

Starting point is 02:18:47 oh fuck yeah dude like that era of time is so sick you know and Yeah, I was psyched he was fucking down to do it, too. You know, I mean, I feel like the style fits like the song pretty well. Big time. Fuck, yeah.

Starting point is 02:19:03 Yeah, he was born to sing with a bunch of old guys in New York, you know. Fuck, yeah. Big, the fucking cabby hat. Yeah, yeah. He got the voice of a band full of guys in the cabby hat. Fuck, yeah. Big old guitars up here. But, and then also coincidentally, the voice of just a,

Starting point is 02:19:23 wonderful country singer. True. You're right. It's not fair. It's not fair. You should only get to have one. I think fair. Title track, not through blood,

Starting point is 02:19:33 featuring Brendan, and the homie from Last Wish is. Yeah. That's awesome. You know what the title track that represents our whole band? Let's get a British guy. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:19:44 Yeah. I mean, that was like last minute too. I think I showed him they were here and I already had like the roughs or something. I just showed him the whole thing. and he was like dude this is fucking crazy

Starting point is 02:19:55 and I was like yeah dude fuck yeah and I was thinking I was like be awesome if you were just on it you know and we were trying to find a spot where it could be

Starting point is 02:20:03 and that baseline part was just like empty yeah I wanted to like say something there but I was like yeah that's funny

Starting point is 02:20:13 because that part within the context of the record I would have assumed you always had someone talking over that break yeah yeah like in that break

Starting point is 02:20:21 yeah I was going to end up recording something for it, but I didn't really know what to do with it when we were at the studio. So we ended up just leaving it. And I was like, oh, we'll just have someone, whoever is on the song. But, like, Brandon, like, we were trying to talk shit into the mic, and it was, we were both just laughing, me and Brandon from Insignary. And Brandon from Insidore.

Starting point is 02:20:44 What was that? What was that? You and Brandon from the song? Yeah, yeah, yeah, we were just cracking up, like, talking shit into the mic. and it was funny but we couldn't like use half of it. Yeah, right. And then Corne wanted to do it. I was like, honestly, he talked shit really well.

Starting point is 02:20:59 Yeah, he says cunt and like the first word. That's the last thing ever. Yeah, I didn't know. Like he said it to me. I was like, whoa. That means a different thing here. Overall, this is like the kind of hardcore that I like, you know? Like no like to a T this is what this is me yeah as a band everybody knows that yeah so I'm just glad

Starting point is 02:21:28 That people want this and people want to do this you know there's been so many dark times michael yeah So there's there were dark times melodic times oh yeah yeah and i you know younger people nick is fucking in his mid 20s and he's right and he's writing these riffs yeah so there's gonna be more nicks out there. There's going to be more Michael Smiths out there. That's what I was saying before. It's not a rare thing. It's a beautiful thing. It's not for everyone, but it's not rare. Yeah. Right. It's it's it's the ratatouet formula again. You know? Not anyone can cook. Yeah. But a great cook can come from anywhere, you know?

Starting point is 02:22:10 Yeah. Harkhor is ratatooie at the end of the day, always. Everything is ratatooey. Right. Every art. Not through blood. But, 2023. The hardest record in quite some time. I feel like this is a good place to kind of wind things down. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:22:31 You got any send-off? Any final words? Yeah. Anything you want to leave the people with today? No, not really. But thanks to you guys for having me on here. I'd ask me. Of course.

Starting point is 02:22:46 I'm talking about it. I appreciate it. I appreciate to love you guys. No, it's well deserved. It's earned. What was that phone? I was going to say it felt deserved because we did the mini really early on. That was like the first of the minis like when we were doing them.

Starting point is 02:23:03 Yeah. Those are our second trip, I think, that we ever did. Yeah, it was in Boston. Yeah. And it was in Boston. It was just felt like we didn't really get into enough. Yeah, yeah. So I'm glad.

Starting point is 02:23:14 The nutshell of Michael. Yeah. Yeah. Now I appreciate you guys. Of course. Yeah. I feel like you're retiring my song now, right? So it's gone.

Starting point is 02:23:23 No. It's out. No, no, no, no. It's around? Fuck yeah. You got so many songs now. You don't need to play that one anymore. Dude, people love that track.

Starting point is 02:23:31 Not just saying that because we're talking you. We fucking on the record. Oh, is it on the, is it? Is it hidden? No, but that would have been fucking sick. You told me you were doing that. I know. I don't know.

Starting point is 02:23:48 I don't know. You were too high. You were smoking a marijuana cigarette. I know. I don't forget, dude. Everyone was just, they were like, yeah, I think it's cool that we have, like, the demo release, whatever you want to call it, like first EP, a split, a comp song. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:24:08 It is cool. And now you got a bullet in the chamber for LP2. I was just going to say that too. Like, we could always re-record it. That's clear. Look at that. Dude, declination is like half demo song. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 02:24:21 So you never know. Just do whatever. I love that song. I was honored to be part of it. Whenever we play that song, people fucking like flip the fucking out of it. Everyone's singing the words and shit to that. That one probably like second most to like the test and paying truth. Like people, a lot of people sing along to it.

Starting point is 02:24:44 I love it. And doing that was like, okay, I should start singing again. That's sick. So you did that. That's awesome. Let me ask you, when it comes to the other guest spots that you've had, has anyone done theirs more than Colin has done these? I would imagine so.

Starting point is 02:25:03 See what he does it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. I got to throw respect on my man, Tyler Anderson, from our own, because we were playing hockey one day and I showed him snake in disguise. It was like no, I think it was just me on it.

Starting point is 02:25:17 And I just had that spot blank. And he was like, oh, dude, this song's crazy. He was like, dude, you should try to sing there. Like, someone like, like, you should. Oh. You know, you should try to sing or get someone to sing there. And I was like, yeah, sure. Like, it would be cool if someone like sing on it.

Starting point is 02:25:33 And first person he said, he was like, dude, you should try to get Colin from switching tongues. Or just said it would sound, I think he said it would sound sick if Colin from switching tongues did it. And I was like, honestly, we chop it up sometimes. Like, me and calm. We shop, which up. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:25:48 I was like, I could. probably hit him up and it wouldn't you know what I mean like I feel like I recorded it like two days later you literally did anytime anytime that we play and he's there he's always in the pit for snake and I'm always like yo Tyler was good that's awesome I had thanks Tyler Michael I had something I wanted to ask you that I forgot yes in uh I think it's you and me there's is it is that the one with the line it's killer be killed yes you hit a little melody where you go Yeah

Starting point is 02:26:24 Let's go It sounds awesome Yeah yeah And it's I'm like You know I wish there was more of it No I feel you

Starting point is 02:26:35 Where did that like come from You're not the first person Like yeah Like Andy It was Andy actually Specifically it was like Oh like when I would hit little things like that You'd be like oh shit

Starting point is 02:26:45 Yeah Because I think there's one more Later on in the record I can't remember which song it is I think you do literally twice on the record. Yeah. And it's out of our hands. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:26:56 Yeah. If you take, but here's the thing, if you take your time working up to that. Yep. Oh, yeah, for sure.

Starting point is 02:27:03 The people will be more receptive. I'm out of post. I just feel like I wasn't really thinking about it until, like even doing that, like I kind of just did it and to take, like those higher ones. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:27:17 Yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't be like opposed to doing shit like that. Cool. Yeah. Very cool. I really, truly genuine, like, the first time I heard it. Do on the next one that's a little different. Maybe if I think I'd start.

Starting point is 02:27:29 Keep evolving. Yeah, yeah. Keep evolving. That's the, that's the way to do it. And in hardcore, it's such a difficult genre to evolve in. Yeah, for sure. Because you can just lose them so fast. But if you, you know, if you slow and steady, kind of wins the race.

Starting point is 02:27:44 It's like you said a thousand times. You evolve. don't change. Evolve don't change. For sure. But you're, you know, you don't need to do either

Starting point is 02:27:52 of those things because you've got a proven system here that rocks, not through blood, is going to be on some album in the year list. I guarantee it.

Starting point is 02:28:01 For sure. Thank you, Michael, for joining us. This was awesome. This is our longest one in a while. Yeah, this is a long one. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:28:08 Big daddy. Yeah. All right. Well, you start a tour very soon. We will see you. We will see you there. I'll be at a couple of them.

Starting point is 02:28:17 Oh, okay. Now, I thought you meant in Japan first. Oh, that too. But then there's a U.S. one, too. Yeah. I'm not going to see you in Japan now. No, I won't be in Japan. Oh, fun.

Starting point is 02:28:27 Not yet. I'll go with you if you want. You have a great time. Why do you guys go do this there? We would love to. That'd be fine. It's awesome. Japan, if you're listening, fly us on that.

Starting point is 02:28:43 We'll be there. All right. Thank you, Michael. You're the man. Not through blood. out now. Days Media Group Records. Lumpy. Have a great day.

Starting point is 02:28:53 See you next week. Bye. Bye.

HardLore - Michael Smith (Pain of Truth)

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