HardLore - Mikey Petroski (Never Ending Game)

Episode Date: June 15, 2023

Colin and Bo sit down with Never Ending Game singer Mikey Petroski right after their historic hometown set at Detroit's Tied Down Festival alongside the release of their acclaimed sophomore LP "Outcry" They discuss Mikey's origins in hardcore/punk, joining the band FREEDOM as they single-handedly ushered in a new chapter in Detroit hardcore, linking up with Will Kaelin to finally fulfill his vision of what Never Ending Game could be, and much more. Join the HARDLORE DISCORD: https://discord.gg/jA9rppggef This episode is brought to you by ATHLETIC GREENS! Try AG1 at athleticgreens.com/HARDLORE to receive a free 1-year supply of vitamin D and 5 travel packs of AG1. Join WHATNOT with our special little link to get $15 off your first purchase. Get ready for the first ever Hardlore live auction TOMORROW, March 24th at 8:30 PM EST: https://www.whatnot.com/invite/hardlore Get 20% OFF @manscaped + Free Shipping with promo code HARDLORE at MANSCAPED.com! #ad #manscapedpod FOLLOW NEVER ENDING GAME: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/neg_hc/ TWITTER | https://twitter.com/NevaEndinGame FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/hardlorepod/ TWITTER | https://twitter.com/hardlorepod SPOTIFY | https://spoti.fi/3J1GIrp APPLE | https://apple.co/3IKBss2 FOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/colinyovng/ TWITTER | https://www.twitter.com/ColinYovng FOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/bosxe/ TWITTER | https://www.twitter.com/bosxe Check out our merch at https://knotfest.com/store/?view=hard... Find all of our videos at https://knot1.co/3vWXsbx #HardLore #NeverEndingGame #MikeyPetroski   HardLore: A Knotfest Series, Fueled by Monster Energy Edited by Steven Grise • Title sequence by Nicholas Marzluf Join the HARDLORE PATREON to watch every single weekly episode early and ad-free, alongside exclusive monthly episodes. Join the HARDLORE DISCORD for community discussions and to participate in our future Q&A episodes. FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER, SPOTIFY, APPLE FOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAM FOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER   For sponsorship opportunities, email us! [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

welcome. It's Hardlore Time. How are you Bo and Looters? I'm so good. I'm having a good day. How are you? Good. I'm having a great day. It's even better now that I got that hair off my microphone and because of this

unbelievable guest. Can you believe it? Oh my God. One of my one of the objectively best current hardcore man's in the world. He's so shy right now. The front man lead singer, poem writer.

Mikey from Neverending Game. How are you, Mike? Holy fucking shit. That's awesome. Thank you. Yeah, that was great. I wasn't sure I thought you were talking about somebody else, you know, with all those accolades and stuff. I was like, I think you got the wrong number or something.

Never say that about me, you simply never. How's it on, Mike? Really good. How are you guys doing? So good. Yeah. We're good now. We're happy to have you.

I feel like this has been a long time coming. Yeah. Yeah. First off, I'm a huge fan. I listen to every episode. So, you know, it's cool to have my dreams come true and finally be on the show. So thank you so much. So you get it.

Post tied down, like, come down. dude it's still like it's still kind of a blur to me but uh it was obviously fucking awesome i wish like if time went by so slow but also so fast where like when monday hit i was like oh like what i didn't say like i didn't talk to so many people you know just like those interactions where you say what's up to somebody and then you never see him again or like they're busy um you guys got the like the most respectful position on the lineup. You know what I mean?

You got the like, here's our hometown heroes. Yeah. They're not headlining, which is like, that's how it should be. But they might as well be. But they might as well. Exactly. I love that.

I fucking love that. Yeah. I mean, see, when that all like came to and they kind of were like telling us like, yeah, like, you know, we're going to put you guys here. That was like obviously super fucking like,

we're all like, uh, fuck, are you like you sure? And obviously like, we want to thank you so much for like, you know, putting us over like that. And like, there are some people talking shit and stuff about us playing after

negative approach, which I totally understand because it's like responsible for the whole, I mean, even the fucking tied down. The name's same. And it's like, I, like, you know, we respect the hell out of them. And like, I don't think I've ever done a fucking interview or anything where I'm not

like, negative approach. Started the whole fucking thing. Like, possibly. started hardcore the way we know it. As we know. We were talking about that. Yeah, we were talking about us. Dude, I mean, it's fucking...

Someone was like, how do you feel about starting all of this? That's the quote of negative approach. Everybody heard ready to fight and they were like, what if we did this now? Just forever. Literally, I remember, not to sidetrack, but I remember Freedom did some shows with agnostic front. And fucking Roger was even telling us, he was like, oh yeah, when negative approach came in New York. Like, everybody ditched the punk-like, you know, the spiky look and stuff, and, like,

they all were, like, going hard. So I feel like in some roundabout way, they are responsible for a lot of the New York stuff kind of coming out the way it did. So huge, huge props. I mean, you heard it from the source. Yeah, from the guy. Yeah, I might have missed quote, you know, I don't want to speak for him. He said something along those lines. And I was like, oh, holy shit. I would imagine Jimmy saw, Jimmy and Edgeman saw like the videos from your Sound and Fury set last year. And how magical that was. And it was like,

okay, if they're going to do this elsewhere, we got to put them over big at home. Before a new record comes out. Yeah. Then boom. Yeah, it was awesome.

I love seeing stuff like that. And, you know, I think being in a band, you kind of realize that that's like, uh, you have, the current state of your city or town or state whatever like on your back and it's like

it's a it's a sign of respect I love that it's definitely I mean yeah we take that with with such pride and yeah that that was awesome for sure did you have that same tunnel vision for the sound and fury set or were you able to take that in I was able to take that in because leading up to sound and fury it was like lead like I remember UPS like lost over our Like we didn't have merch. Like everything was going wrong and even like I remember like we were playing like kind of earlier in the day, which is totally like we're super grateful to be there. But I remember it was like, oh, okay, we're at like three o'clock. I think we played after Cola Boy, which was awesome, but was just like super chill vibe, you know, it was totally different.

So then we get up there and, you know, it's like everybody's just kind of mellow and then we're like, okay, you know, it's probably going to be kind of tough winning this crowd over. it's okay like we're happy to be here like whatever we don't have much like merge and shit like let's just have fun guys like who fucking cares yeah you know we're in l a this is crazy and uh so as soon as it like started popping like we're all like oh like this is different than any i mean that's still like to date tied down obviously was fucking awesome but like to date just the biggest like mind fuck of just like, 5,000 people outside is 5,000 people outside. Exactly. And it's like, yeah, you can't replicate like that feeling. The term like X, Y, Z was a movie gets thrown around a lot and it can be overused. But like,

never ending game, speed and God's hate. Those sets over Sound of Fury were literally movies. Like that was, I was watching Never Ending Game from the other stage, like from the Colo Boy stage, because I couldn't even get around there, you know? And I was just watching just like, holy fucking shit. It never ended. Like the pitting never stopped. The sing-alongs never stopped. It was so sick.

Thank you. And yeah, that was crazy. And I think proof to it being a movie is like, I had random coworkers tagging me in like, there's like Instagram reels that have gone viral and like TikToks and stuff. And like people would be like, wait, is this you? like, what is this? What are they doing? Why are they fighting? And like, there's so many, like, random viral things that have come from that because I mean, I totally get that you look at that

from an outside lens. That's, even from an inside lens. It's the most extreme thing in the world. Yes. Right. And so, yeah, that was a movie. Consensual mass fighting. Let's go back in time a little bit. I knew it. I knew we were getting into the DeLorean. Oh. Let's go back in time. 88 miles an hour. before freedom before you ever touched an instrument which having seen you touch an instrument I would imagine

wasn't too soon before joining freedom I don't know how to phrase that are you saying I was bad at freedom but that was the gimmick right you were like yeah you fit the requirement of like okay in order to find a base player we need like a friend who's

cool. Base aside, which is great. But before Freedom, what were the hardcore shows of your youth, like the tours that came through that made you go, damn, this is what I need to be doing. This is where I need to be. Good question, Colin. All right. Well, well, for me, it all starts with one band that kind of led me into discovering all

this and well kind of two bands but okay the first band I heard on Tony Hawk Pro Skater yeah got that game you know whatever as a kid

which one is like 98 of course one the first one first one okay first one and I hear a band called the suicide machines doing a song called New Girl on there heard a bunch of other stuff dead Kenny you know whatever I'm about to do girl

exactly so I'm like I'm like okay like I'm getting into skateboarding and stuff. I'm like, okay, so like, this is skateboard music. Okay, I kind of get it. I get into other stuff like that. I remember I go to a record store that was local to me called Rockabillies. Also, infamously, Coldest Life has a video on YouTube where they play there. It's like the declination, like, CD release or something like that. Nice. Which is also, and it's self crazy because, like, I'd, like, have my mom drop me off there, and I'd, like, run in there and, like, you know, buy a CD and stuff like that. So it's, oh,

always been crazy to me. They're like, what if I walked in when they were playing? Like that that's also the only time that you can say CD release as a bit, but it's like actually it was the CD release for declination. Yeah, straight up. No, no, no. Ceds, baby. Oh, yeah. Love them CDs. Anyways. What was so? And then which game was, what Tony Hawk was 25 to life in? Later. It was like two or three. Oh, yeah. That was the one where I was like, all right, they got 25 to life. We're good. I good to go. I probably heard that. At that time,

I was just like, what the fuck is this shit? Like, there's no... I would have got it. It was... Tony Hawk Underground 2. Oh, that was way late. That's way late.

Thug 2. But Thug, dude, both the thugs had amazing soundtracks. Yeah. Incredible. It was like GTA meets Tony Hawk. Exactly. Bad ass.

Fucking awesome. Anyway, you heard the Tony Hawk soundtrack. Then what? So then I'm like, you know, trying to fish out like punk. So I just kind of like, you know, it's like the Clash, the Ramones, the like typical old school stuff.

And then the dude at the CD store, sorry. Yeah, not a record store, CD store. He puts me on, he's like, oh, have you heard this one? It's rancid. And now come the wolves. So that's like my, you know, I don't know what I'm hearing, but I'm just like, this is, this is it. This is what I want. I want to listen to this.

And then he also throws in some, like, they used to do these, like, compilations, these Give Him the Boot compilation it was called that like Hellcat Records did. So on that's like a bunch of just like random stuff. It's like Dropkick Murphys and just like the business and random stuff that I'm like absorbing and I'm like I like I like this but I'm not really checking those out. I'm just kind of like yeah, punk. Like I get it. I think like Roger, Roger Merritt and the disasters is on there but like not agnostic front. But I'm like so then later like when I hear agnostic front I'm like, oh, that's the guy from.

the disasters for giving them the literally yeah so like had it all backwards or I'm like I like this guy's voice like oh

like what what else is he done and then you know kind of put it all together interesting so you know I'm into this like punk ska

whatever rockabilly like yeah was Tiger Army on that on that compilation oh Tiger Armies definitely on that compilation you fight with

necromatics dude you know I definitely was checking them out but you know They got some parts. Who killed the cheerleaders? Oh, my God.

A couple tracks on, are they Danish, Colin? What? Are they Danish? Something like that. Something like that, right? Yeah, there's something. Yeah, okay. So you got into hardcore through punk.

Yeah. As did I. The old way. The old way, yes. The old way. But don't get me wrong because, like, somewhere in the middle. So, like, I'm going to just ran, like, kids in my neighborhood and stuff, I'm, like, telling them, yeah, I'm into punk and whatever.

I'm getting put on. to all kinds of random shit. So, like, I'm getting, like, they're going to shows, and I'm like, oh, I'll go, and it's, like, metalcore. But then it's, like, a ska band, a metalcore band, an emo band. So I'm just, like, absorbing all this stuff at the same time. And, like, you know, there's, like, plenty of bad stuff. So, like, I get derailed and I'm, like, kind of fucking with metalcore and, like.

But, like, the random stuff where it's, like, I remember having, like, on like lime wire or whatever, like, downloading, like, one as LA dying song and, like, having that on a burn CD next to, like, rancid and drop kick Murpies. And just like, so it's like I'm absorbing it. I'm like micro-dosing metalcore through this whole journey. Isn't it funny? Go ahead. I love the conscious moment in your, in your, like, young teenage brain where you realize

that, like, something suck. Yeah. You know, where you're like, oh, not all music is good. And I can't like all of it. Straight up, a perfect example of that, because this is like middle school days. So like in middle school from Detroit area, ICP was like a giant thing, which I know it was kind of everywhere. But like in particular it was like, you know. I mean, still to this day in Detroit, it's the biggest thing.

There are juggalo's at tied down. That's like all you need to know. Right. And so I remember like seeing like understanding the whole jugglo thing. I'm like, oh, these guys like they dress crazy. you know they like the makeup the the the imagery the the hatchet man like looks super brutal and i remember some kid in like my computer's class like pulling up a music video it's like yeah all right you ready to check this shit out and it's like fucking sucks it's i'm like this is you think

this is hard like it's like it's like they're just saying crazy stuff yeah right yeah and i did because i think it was like that like one of their like kind of hits like the what Oh shit. Chicken hunting? No, Jugglo homies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, whatever.

That's like a tame one, right? Did you ever dabble, Colin? What? Did you ever dabble? Oh, fuck yeah, dude. Did you? Elementary school? Yeah.

Who's going chicken hunting? Wee's going chicken hunting, dude. I couldn't do it. I don't know what that means, but I eat chicken all the time. So I still live the philosophy to this day. That's hilarious. So ICP was the first. What was the first movie you guys saw where you were like, I don't think I liked that movie?

Like where you realized that some movies can suck too? That it sucked or that I was afraid? No, not afraid. Where you were like, I think I just saw a bad movie. Mine was SkyCaptain in the World of Tomorrow with Jude Law. I remember that movie. I hated it. And that was the first time I hated a movie.

It was a devastating thought to have. A movie that sucked. Yeah. Oh, obviously my opinion has changed, but my dad showed me Casablanca when I was like a child. So of course, I was like, this fucking sucks. I felt that way about It's a Wonderful Life. I fuck with it now because like I love suicide stuff. But at the time, I was like, this is so boring.

How about you, Mikey? Shoot, you know, I don't really, nothing's coming to mind. Like probably like seeing like a sequel to like something where it's like I don't know like fucking Was there like a flubber two or something like that? Probably. There's like Flubber eight man. Flubber or something. Right.

Like something like that where you're like, I love this movie like it's going to be even better. And you're like, oh dude, Lion King too. You remember that one? Perfect. Yeah. That's a perfect. Yep. Croc of shit there.

What's the last movie you walked out on? I know what yours is. Do you? Aren't you embarrassed to say it? Oh, you know what? I don't count that one though. We, I was just, I just wanted, we were bored. Just wanted to leave her.

But one that was like where I was actually, all three, me and my mom and Casey were all like, this is fucking terrible. Let's go. Was house of Gucci. Was house of Gucci. I knew you were going to say that. Last movie. I've only done it once or twice in my life. We just, I went to go see the new Spider-Man and I had to walk out.

Oh, were you like sick or something? No, it was like, it was like battle 14s to the death or leave. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I chose nonviolence. Wow. My mom had, I had to leave during Dumb and Dumber and it was right after the pee drinking scene. So I remember as a kid thinking, these people are going to think that like were uncool.

Because my mom's making me leave, but it had nothing to do with the movie. She didn't use it. Okay. You were right. back to the putting bands next to other bands like on a burn CD isn't it funny that

we're back to that just on Spotify like playlists and shuffling and shit like it's we're just back to that way of consuming music I never really thought of it like that but it's like it's like kind of my preferred way to like just be all over the place

like go to your whatever your radio or whatever they like make for you and just like be thrown all over the place. Because yeah, remember the iPod shuffle all days, dude? Fuck that. Oh yeah.

That little musical tampon. Nothing was, nothing was, no, no, not the shuffle. Like shuffle all music on your iPod. Oh, dude. Well, that, that was where I'm like, yo, I'm the best DJ in the world. Nothing's normalized. Levels are jumping constantly. But it's like, it's like everything I like, every next song, I'm like, yo.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Who put this on? I was never a playlist guy Until we started making them for this show Same And now I love those playslists Now I get it

Yeah I legitimately get it Because if you're only putting the hits on It's a great hour You're a big song guy Mikey You're not an album guy Oh yeah I'm a tracks Tracks

Tracks only No I like certain albums But it's like certain artists You know Unfortunately like Yeah There's a lot of artists Who didn't make a good album

They made a track There's a lot of one pit wonders out there Mikey there's a lot. A lot of one-pit wonders. A lot of one-pit wonders. You know, I feared for a while that my band with God Forgives might be a one-pit wonder. No, because you already had like five cents before then. Yeah, but, you know, there was a time where it was like, we tried to not play that song last,

and it was like, you know, Sky Rock, like reaction to that song crazy. And then you'd try to get, you know, throw in another song. And it's like, oh. I think we're, I'm feeling good after the most recent, like tied down recently playing. Where I'm like, okay, I think we might have some new songs that we can like, I think we're more than one song. No, I mean, and like just another day.

Yeah. Gets as good of a reaction as God forgives now. Puppets hot. You got tracks, dude. Don't doubt your tracks. Well, thank you. Thank you. Can we jump ahead or do you still want to go chronological?

I want to go, I want to go back because I want to go back to when you first met the freedom squad. Ooh, okay. Yeah, kind of misses stuff there. Dennis is like my, I met Dennis on the playground in like third grade. Fuck, he was like 6-1, 6-2 at the time. Probably he was, so he's from, he's Bosnian.

So he in like this, the school I went to had a bunch of like refugees and just whatever, people from other places. And so that's like his family moved. to my area from I think they moved they live somewhere in Detroit

and then they moved to like my neighborhood and met him like on the playground playing soccer just like he would be totally yeah

well and that's the thing is like all those kids brought soccer with them and they're like you know we're like let's play football or basketball

and they're like like no soccer so then like they kind of like that whole culture like rubbed off on us and we're like okay I guess we play soccer

I never like got in soccer after that is Petroski Is that like Polish or something? It's Polish. Yeah. Polish. Yeah.

So you guys. What's up with Bosnia and Poland? They tight? Me and Dennis are tight. We're best friends. They're Baltic and Poland are Slavic. So they're different peoples. Oh, okay.

Different ethnicities. Soccer unites everybody. You know, I guess so. So yeah. So Dennis is like, you know, my day one. And we kind of like got into like music together and stuff too. He was, I don't really know. his origin story, but he was kind of dabbling and stuff too. And at some point, kind of later,

like in middle school, we realized like, oh, we're both like into this alternative music. And, uh, you know, we're just become like best buds and just like hanging out all the time. And he lived close to me and stuff too. So it was just like he'd come over. He was like, you know, my mom would like make us dinner and stuff like that. Like he was like, you know, part of my family, for sure. Let me correct myself too Unless I don't want to offend anyone I was wrong

They're all Slavic So it's all good Hey I knew it leave it Leave it to the German guy to marginalize everybody That you know Dennis's origin Is like

The thing that I think was lost on people With freedom Where freedom was like Like the American skinhead band Fronted by Bosnian refugee living the American dream and like really

proving the American skinhead lifestyle was the beauty of it. Yes. And thank you for saying it like that because yeah, there were so many times where it was like, you know, hearing like people talking shit and stuff and they're like, oh, they're just like rich white kids and it's like

this motherfucker came from you know, like he hid in a box literally. It's like it. You know, it doesn't get more fucking hardcore punk than that. Agreed. So thank you for put some respect on freedom.

No, of course. I put respect on Dennis whenever I can. Me too. Me too. So the rest of freedom, because freedom represents a shift in modern Detroit hardcore. So I want to cover that a bit. Yeah.

Let me back up freedom. So there's a band called Face Reality. That kind of is like the first cool, cool, like, Yeah. Hardcore band in Detroit. In my opinion, like, there was bands that, like, we're into, but it was, like, nothing against these guys. They're some of my best friends, but, like, there's a band called Tyrant, X, Tyrant X.

That was, like, terrifying, straight-edge, hardcore, like, face tattoo. Like, I had the shirt. Yes. Murder City, straight-edge, like, bold, bold as fuck band. Yeah. Dude, you know the I Kill for Straight Edge shirt? Oh, yeah. Classic.

I Antonio Banderas, the first time I saw that. I was like, p. I mean, I bought into, I mean, I was like, I was all about that shit, too. Like, I was like, and that was also my exposure to, my first exposure to straight edge. I was like, oh, wow. Also, I'm an Edgman, just for the record. Still got me. It's fine.

You're one of the 11 left. Never any game actually has three So we're a majority But the other two But the other two are Sick and a fucking head Such fucking scumbags that it's like You know

It's maybe a little off-sided But it's okay Anyways Tyrants Chows outside of Detroit Not Is that what you're saying? Yeah

So I guess what I'm saying is like Yeah Seeing them and stuff It was it was scary like no doubt especially as like a 15 year old or whatever you know how old it was I was like I'm fucking terrified

kind of like that fear but like I didn't feel like I could get involved because I was like 120 pounds and sure you know not shit so I feel like when face reality came around that was the first time I was like oh these guys are like kind of my age and they were doing like the youth crew thing

which like was kind of new to us Like we didn't really like at least to me and like Dennis and stuff we were like we were like oh like where they pull you know like okay like youth of today yeah I've seen that name you know just like at least for me like I was like starting to understand that whole side of it and Nick from Freedom also played in face reality and so that was kind of like the first band that like made I don't make Dennis be like like oh I can do this like I want to sing for a band definitely made me be like I want to play in bands. like this is you know something attainable and something that like we can do here because it's like we're seeing other bands like this is probably like 2008 so it's like I don't know like backtrack starting

and coming through I mean even like Harmsway and like that whole wave of like these you know the like Reaper bands and like like that's like taking over like TUI is like Reaper Renaissance was worldwide dude I mean

an awakening dude yeah That was like taken over, but then it was like, oh, this is like something a little different, you know, kind of more in like a different lane. So that's kind of, I think, what led to freedom at least was, you know, just like, just knowing that like we could do it or they could do it. So the original base player of freedom is Jimmy of Edgeman printing. At the time I wasn't, when they started, I wasn't living in Michigan in Detroit. I moved away. They started the band.

And so Jimmy is like the original bass player. Not saying that like it would have been me, but like it might have been because that was like my friend circle and stuff. But whatever, they recruit Jimmy. Jimmy plays on the first like seven inch they do, which is like all the pay the price seven inch. And then I,

and then like he's focusing on Edgeman printing and stuff like that. At the same time, I move back. And so I start like feeling. in for him. So it's like, and I do have some base experience. I know it doesn't like maybe didn't sound like I did. I was just yanking your chain.

Oh, no. It's okay. I never heard you miss a note. It just looked like you were like fuck I gotta play this fucking base. Well, that's the thing, you know, especially in that band is like, we got like, so Alec, who is in your bands also like posy jumper fucking swagmaster 5,000.

Like always going off like Nick Cutchway also always going off. Dennis, like, iconic frontman. And, like, I, like, kind of just, like, you know, got thrown into the band. And I was just like... You were there to look sexy. Look jacked. And, like, the thing about those songs, too, is, like, they're really kind of bass-driven, too.

So, like... Oh, yeah. True. Early in the days, like, I was like, I can't fuck this up. This is my big opportunity. Like, especially when I was just, like, filling in. And then they're ringing out and they're fucking, you know, fucking Alex fucking doing backflips and stuff and it's like,

shattering his kneecaps. Oh, oh, buddy. Yeah. Let's talk about that story. Please. Tell me from your eyes.

Yeah, so from my eyes, I believe we're playing Chicago. I don't remember what venue. It's with Burn and American Nightmare. And I think we're the only, like, opening band,

whatever. It's freedom. It's like, you know, good packed house, like feeling good. And I don't know what song. You got 75 bucks to play. Oh, right?

Probably like 65, but yeah. You better guess that your agent has $6.20 for that one. And that was played Philly the night before with them. And then that was an overnight drive to Chicago. Obviously, everybody else flew, but they're like, hey, you guys want to play it too? And us being like not realizing, you know, money is like a thing you need to negotiate ahead of time. Yeah. Just like, yeah, like, they'll probably take good care of us.

No offense to that promoter. listing. I'm sorry. I get it. I get how it goes. That's the game. That's the game. It's a never-ending one. Anyways. Sorry. Anyway, so we're on stage. We're fucking

playing. Alex, like, doing his jumps and stuff. I'm like, maybe it's like, I don't know, whatever. One of her songs, you know, I'm like just plucking away on my bass, doing a thing. And then I see him like wipe out. Oh.

And I'm like, oh, he got tangled on his cables and, like, fell like an idiot. So I, like, look at the rest of guys. I'm like, this fucking idiot, like, these fucking jumps. Like, here he is. Like, look at me, like, falling, like, I'm like, see, this is why we, this is why I don't jump. This is why I stay on the ground. Like, thinking all these fucking thoughts. I'm like, this motherfucker.

And then, like, and then I see, uh, yeah, I see that. And then I see, like, his wife or maybe girlfriend at the time. Shannon, like, come and, like, pick him up and, like, pull him off. And then, like, his guitar in the meantime's, like, feedbacking, like, crazy. I'm like, yeah. And I'm like, all right, something actually probably happened here. So I'm like, go and, like, turn off his shit. And then I'm like, we, you know, we finish the set.

I think, I assume without him. I don't exactly remember. But then afterwards, he's like, like, goes to the hospital immediately. It's like, I think, like, in crutches and, like, a cast for, like, six months or something. I think he did that three times in his life. Like, if you're listening. He did it in the Navy Two-stepping to off my chest

That time and then I think At Rainfest When true love I feel like he maybe like Sweaked it or like kind of re-injured it Same knee Same knee but like it was just kind of like I'm good

And then I think this probably follows that And it's just like no it wasn't good Like Here it alternates disasters You know He'll blow out knee, he'll rip a crotch of a pant. Oh, that happened too. He'll stop a sample

and a set early. So, I am curious, that sample, like, what did it sound like? That first one? It was, it was like eight mile, right? It was the fucking, uh, lose yourself intro into the, into our intro. Okay. And, and Alec gets so

psyched up about samples that he's like scared to do it. And he was like, it was almost over and he's like, I should probably turn it off, just turned it off. That's what, okay, because that's what I, I was like, oh, maybe that was like a part of it is it's like a hard stop, like a record scratch, like, and then, and then your intro. It did stop at we are number one. Yeah. So it was like, that could have been the new statement. Yeah, right.

Right. That's what I thought I was like, oh, maybe I didn't hear the like, you know, one of those like record scratch like things. Cool. We made eye contact and we were both just like, he went, I'm sorry. Buh. Yeah. So in terms of the tour, freedom toured a lot. Yeah, we toured with.

Did we tour together? That was my first tour ever. That was your first tour. That was my first time playing with the band. I was like, I don't know, maybe 22 or something like that. Yeah, that was my first tour. One of the first death. Life and death.

The first time it happened? 14? 14, yeah, I think so. Yeah, that sounds right. Yeah, it was fun. which I want to give some respect to James Vitalo for like freedom, prior to that, freedom existed in like the demo core kind of like world

where it was like, we weren't like, I don't know, he just like asked us randomly, like, didn't know us, was just like, oh, I think, you know, this band seems kind of cool, asked us to like open that tour and it would like change the whole way, like, I don't think I'd be sitting here talking to you guys if like he didn't reach out to us like that because it's like remember it that that like linked everybody together like made all the like you know the real like hardcore scene like pay attention

to us and like you know tell other people about us and like kind of really like catapulted the band forward so huge respect for that um but yeah that was my first tour um any fond memories from it let me think dude so many like I because I didn't know what the fuck I was doing I remember like I remember just not eating ever and I came back and I like I weighed myself and I lost like 30 pounds like no joke lost like I was already like kind of a smaller guy and I was just like skin and bones when I got back because I just didn't understand like how eating worked like on tour it was just like financial or just you've definitely financial I was definitely like broke a shit like didn't I don't think I was like working

and was just like, the hot and ready kept you fed once again. It was not, it was like, yeah, like I would maybe get a Pop-Tart at the gas station like once a day and be like, yeah,

I think this is good. I remember, um, turnstile playing some of the Texas shows. Yeah. They like hopped on. Yeah. Like a couple shows.

And I remember, even then, 2014 being like, this band. That was definitely. Their first tour was with us. That's crazy. It was the worst for us.

Because they were before us. It's crazy. Like, freedom and like whatever. Like, I feel like I've seen them so many times turnstile where I'm like, oh, like, this is it. They've arrived. They just keep arriving, dude.

But every and then it's like just, it's fucking crazier and crazy. Like that time in the Life and Death Tour, it's like, holy shit. Like, these are the like, like, they're going to be the biggest hardcore band. Right. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Now they're just. I saw them.

I mean, I know everybody like this has been said a million times. Everyone's like, I used to see them here and blah, blah, blah. But it's like I just saw them where the pistons and Red Wings play, you know? And it's just like, oh my God. Such a crazy fucking full circle. Okay. It was. I forgot who was on the tour.

It was backtrack. Harmsway expire. Suburban scum, downpresser, iron mine, freedom. And a couple I can't read because the picture is terrible. Yeah. Incendiary did like a little leg of it. King Nine did a leg of it. That's right.

Right off of scared to death. And I remember everybody. Every band, that's when, like, it's definitely when they became a band's band because every fucking band was, we were all just going insane for that. In like the least derogatory way possible. Oh, yeah. And not in a ringworm way where band people are like, yeah, I fuck with ringworm. And the other got band guys are like, you know what, me too.

In a King Nine way where it's like, the pit is bands. Oh, dude. All of them in the world. I remember several people on that tour like getting in, because they played like Toronto and Montreal. So it was already kind of like, oh, we're Americans. Like, you know, we're just like, I feel like everybody was going a little reckless on the dance floor

and just like some very close like almost like, you know, fights and stuff breaking out. How did freedom do not in the U.S.? We only, I don't know. We only did one European tour and it was like towards the end. So with Fury? with Fury. Yep.

We did Outbreak Fest in the UK and then we did like, you know, 10 days or 14 days with Fury. And it was, it was good. Did you get any bullshit? Hmm.

Not, yeah, I remember people would like, just like, nothing against, you know, our, our foreign listeners and everything, but, uh, just like the,

like, the thing like, like, oh, like, you guys are skinhead band. And like, just like weird stuff.

stuff like that, you know, just like, just not getting it, them, them not getting it, which is, I understand. And like, we did that to ourselves and that's okay, like, yeah, I'm fine with that. Like, you know, we had something, anything patriotic is going to be read as nationalistic elsewhere. Yeah, you know, and we kind of found that out the hard way where it's like, we're like, no, war zone agnostic front. And people don't, people don't, people don't, we don't like, we don't like, we don't like some either. Right. Right. We know, we thought it was like universal language and I like, Everybody likes that, but yeah. Interesting.

They'll love it now. So, but you can't come back. Freedom can't come back anymore, right? Um, because of, you know. Yeah, I mean, Oh. Probably.

I mean, Nick is the main writer, right? Yeah. So, you know. Nick broke all of our hearts with that one, huh? He, that was a tough one to see go, you know. that that was at tied down i was watching magnitude with him and he was like dude he's like dude when i broke edge i heard this record and i was like fuck i shouldn't have done that

i remember like meeting up with him like at a show like shortly after he here's the thing about him is like anytime like like we be like in the straight edge days he'd be like get a whiff of weed he'd be like oh this smells really good i'm like bro that's weed So, like, we all knew that this day was coming, but we kind of thought maybe it was a bit also. No. But no, it definitely wasn't a bit. And I remember, like, meeting up with him right after, like, you know, he smoked weed for the first time. And he's like, dude, I did it.

And I was like, oh, fuck. Like, he's like, I don't know. Like, if I liked it, I got all paranoid. And I was like, oh, well, dude, just, hey, I won't tell anybody. Like, yeah. Reclaim. Just come back. Just come back.

We use you. We come on. It's not. But those weed smells good motherfuckers. They're the first to go. I guess they really are. But Nick is like the best guy. What are the other?

Oh, one of my best friends. Still love him to death. That doesn't change anything. No. It's and like even like, because like kind of the mission statement, not that I was there for the early days of freedom, but like their mission statement was kind of like, oh, like, what if it's the agnostic front, but it's straight edge? Yeah.

It's like kind of the whole thing. The dream. I feel like anybody out there, like, do that. Like, that's a great formula. Take band that's not straight edge and just make a straight edge. Oh, God. I feel like that can play. There's nothing better, dude.

Like, imagine, you know, like straight edge marauder. That's God's hate. That's got hate, yeah. Yeah. What's the, what are the stats? What's the lineup? It's five out of six with an honorary from Carl. But Carl dubbed Martin honorary.

So we're full straight-ed. Oh, that's awesome. All right. We're good, dude. All right. So we already got one of those. So don't do that. We got it.

We got it. We're good, dude. Straight edge hate breed? Who's it going to be out there, listener? It could be you. Please, somebody. We need more straight edge. Is there not a straight edge?

There were a few in the two days. No, no, no. No. God's hate. Perfect. Yep. Yep. Okay.

So you guys already did all of them. So, all right. Never mind. Don't do that. All right. Don't do it. What were the most devastating edge breaks of your guys's life? Who broke where you were like, I can't believe this.

This is heartbreaking. Just fucking say it, you coward. I'll think of some controversial. Yeah, I can say the Ryan George one being like a huge. Oh, yeah, that's a bummer. A huge carry-on guy. That was a bummer. I remember, like, reading about it, being like, no, no way, like going to Bridge 9 and being like, wow.

Yeah. You know, and finding out about the shirt, the Cokeline shirt. Oh, yeah. You know? Oh, yeah. Yeah. The bully shirt. I remember the exodus in Chicago.

There was one year where it was just like dozens of people broke out. I would say Richmond, Virginia as a city is pretty heartbreaking. Yeah, that's one. Luis Hernandez's crushing one for me. But weed has changed him. Yeah, some people, you know, it made them better. Justice, T-Y. I mean,

it's a crushing one. That was kind of a crushing one. But I feel like he's using substance to his advantage and doing like creative stuff. Yeah, he's writing riffs with weed. That's the way, that's the hack. Yeah. Like that's probably, you know. So I respect that.

He's on some John Lennon shit whenever he's as a highman, you know? What's a hymen? I was a high man. What's a controversial one? What you got? A controversial one. Todd Jones, dude. Yeah.

That was the first one that came on. That's a tough one. It's crushing. Because I remember a How's Your Edge interview. And they would always start the interview with How's Your Edge? And the one with him where he's like, fine, thanks for asking. It was way back. I think it was like terror days.

I will refer to him as TXJ for the rest of my life, you know? Yeah. I just thought of random stories. involving him and just Nails We did Freedom did Like the West Coast

You will never be One of us Like record release shows And I remember We're like What it was us Shoot I'm trying to remember

The lineup Anyways whatever Nails brings us out Oh yeah Terrorizer It's like Oh yeah Those shows are crazy

Yeah We played the Roxy Which was like Fucking Sick You know Being on I'm

My parents like, hey, like this place that, you know, whatever. Legendary place. I don't even know who played there. Place kind of sucks. It's not great. No, but whatever. Playing the sunset strip is like a thing. Yeah.

It's bad ass. Anyways, so like we play the last show in San Francisco. And we're like asking him. We're like, oh, so what's next for you guys? He's like, nothing. That's it. And we're like, oh, like you guys got nothing booked? He's like, nope.

And then, like, the next day we see, like, it's, like, posted everywhere, like, nails, like, breaks up or, like, something. Like, they, like, broke up. But, like, the shows were so good. And, like, it seemed like everything was good and normal. And then I was just, it was just like, oh, shit. Like, because we're, like, driving back from San Francisco, like, playing shows in, like, Colorado and, like, whatever. A couple. Like, we're taking this long fucking drive back to Detroit.

We're like, oh, did we have not come out? Like, the shows were worth it. But it was just, like, such a fucking. trip. I feel like they'll come back at some point. I feel like they got a. I love them. The tunes are too good.

I love nails so much. The whole discography is so good. There's not a bad song. That's like one of the one of the only flawless discogs. Yeah, straight up. It's so good, dude. It's, yeah, it's insane. That route coming back from San Francisco, back to like our area, the Great Lakes area is.

Yes, Great Lakes hardcore. so fucking brutal because it's always like Denver maybe Kansas City, maybe Omaha. Yeah, and I think we just like skipped all that and it was just like, nope, let's just whatever that is, 20 hour drive from Denver.

Fuck that. Oh, I've done Chicago to L.A. more than I've maybe done any other long drive. And it's something traumatic happens to me every time. Like what? Like the time I was shitting my pants every 30 minutes?

You shut your house. That was Chicago to LA. Wow. Curse drive, dude. I mean, Chicago to L.A. and where we stayed was Vegas. And that's where we're going to far. You know, it's even longer.

I was just talking about this. We did Miami or Fort Myers to Chicago. After the Cannibal Corpse tour, that's where it ended. And we just drove straight. Dude, I drove for nine hours overnight. And we were in Georgia. hit the line. You know what I mean? I stopped at the fucking the chickfil-a though. Oh, that's a good one. That's where I did the passing of the guard.

We'll get into all that. Oh, yeah. That's got it. That's got to come. Yeah. All right. So let's, it's 45 minutes in. Let's just get into it. Yeah. At what point? Go ahead. Sorry, I do have a question though. Um, so I was going to ask, there's a lot of melody in never ending game stuff. You're going to get there? You're going to go to the end of their discography? No, it's there. Whether it's like, All line or not Jesus Christ. All right. Go on. I'm going chronological, Bo.

Jesus. Right, right. At one point in while you're in freedom. Did you think, I think, look, I got the rhythm in me. I got, every time we've been talking about you coming on Hardlore, you know what you say? You say, I got a lot of things in my mind. So at what point did you say that about starting never ending game? All right.

Dude, honestly, before I was in freedom, the idea came about where it was like, all right, like, I wanted it to be, I was like,

you guys like do a band with me, but it's going to be like harder. It's going to be like, the way like Madball started from the ashes of agnostic front. Not that like freedom would call it quits, but it's just like, it's just like, oh,

let's like take it like. Well, they existed simultaneously, so that makes sense. Yeah, no, you're right. It makes total sense.

And so that was just, like kind of a thought like I had this like I don't know had these had these these visions these these things that I needed to get out you know and and and so so so I always like wanted to do this band and I like knew exactly like how I wanted to lay it all out and stuff not that I did this all alone but so there's some early stuff originally the band was going to be called eight ball and there's some like which I was like obsessed with oh thank you they were like like Mikey's singing in this new band eight ball. I was like, yes.

Right. And then. And then like, obviously like it just, we had like a couple tracks and it just like never, you know, got the momentum. But then my friends, it's okay because they're my friends, but like some dudes in the band gag like started a project called that name, which I think is, you know, obviously it's like since broke up and like. It's a dope ass name.

Yeah. Right. And I was just hanging out there like for free. And so I get that like. that was going to get taken soon. But I do have a theory because I remember at a rain fest, I would just write the name, like I was like graffeting like the fucking bathroom

just right in eight ball, Detroit, like just dumb shit. Just like just trying to put it out there, plant the sea, you know? And so I just wonder if somebody saw it. Manifesting. Manifesting. What is it parallel thinking. Yeah.

Yeah, parallel thinking. But I'm sure it's just complete coincidence because that's just like a dumb. It's just a low hanging. If I saw that group Like on a bathroom stall I was taking a shit I'd be like Sick man name

There was a Boston Harm's way Yeah Like in the hardcore To tango No way You know what I mean Yeah

Yeah Yeah I wonder So you knew Like you had the vision Already Had you been like Were you like Are you a writer guy

Are you a poet guy Do you write that shit? Yes Yes but no But yes Like I wrote shit down and the way I like still

write is I just write A ball Like Just write that stuff No I just like Write fucking psych hot Like just things I'll just like

Got an idea Right like I type I mean I type it in my My notes app or whatever And I just like So I just had scrolls and scrolls And scrolls of like stuff for like From like five years

A lot of it just A lot of it Garbage just like The dumbest shit and like But it like helped me work it out where I'm like, oh, I think I kind of like know what I want to say and like how I want to say it and all that type of shit. Did you know, like, was there an intention from the beginning to like let it be funny? Because the demo is straight up funny. Yeah, it was supposed to be a little, you know, just, you know, up maybe like on the line, like dancing on the line. You know, it's like, here's the line.

I'm going to cross it a couple times. Here's, I'm tipping my toe across the line. I'm coming back. I'm coming back. But because like overarching, it's like everything I am saying is like serious and like real to me. And like, you know, like I'm, it's sincere, but it's like I might like phrase something a little bit. You know, not proper. Like, you know, where like somebody would be like, oh, like, hey, can you like spell check my lyrics? Like I'm like, no, no, no. Like I spelled stuff wrong. We're going to keep it.

Yeah, that's the idea. So that's, you know, I don't know. Thug thoughts. You know that's the whole thing. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Thugs don't spell check. No.

T.T.D. The new twitching tongues. Thug thoughts? Yeah. Yeah, that could be a good like a poetry book or something. Thug thoughts. Damn. We'll keep that in mind.

Right. Put that on a scroll. I feel like Will Kaelin. He's my. Yeah. I don't know how we haven't talked about him yet, but he's like my, I don't know. He's the key to the whole fucking. And that's what I was going to say.

He opens my door. It was a concept until you realized Will was the key to the door. Exactly. And it's like I, you know, I tried to have the freedom guys like doing it. And they were, you know, they were doing it. But they were like, I was like, no. Like, I'm like, I'm about this. Like, I need to do this.

Yeah. And so somewhere along the line. So freedom and detain like our, you know, detain, Grand Rapids, Freedom, Detroit. Like, they were coming over to Detroit. like they probably played a majority of the shows in Detroit. Yeah. And so like we started playing together and stuff like that.

Knew him just from the scene and stuff like that. And talking to him more and more, I'm like, oh, like, I had respect for detain. Like I was always like, oh, this is like dope. Like, like, I think these guys like get it. They like the same shit that I like. And then like getting closer friends with him. I was like, you know, we're dropping like deep cuts. Like he's like, oh, do you like this one second thought?

song and just like the most obscure like or like the next step up uh cover of sweet leaf and like just like like stuff like that where he's just like fucking he's like a part a piece of my brain like just i'm like this is like my my my fucking brother this is the guy to do this so i present him the band and he's like yeah it sounds sweet like you know we should do it wrote the demo in 15 minutes or something probably. I think we jammed like twice and then and then yeah and then recorded that. I was so obsessed with him when I first met him because it was like, who is this moon-faced child wearing the same shirt as me every day somehow? We're always matching. He's pitting hard as fuck. A little kid just like, oh yeah. And then if you played a cover or something, he always knew the

He knew it. Yep. Yep. He, uh, yeah, that's where I was just like, all right, like, this is, this guy, like, gets the whole thing. And, uh, you know, Detain, like, did really well, but they were always kind of, like, lumped into this, like, category that, like, wasn't, like, freedom somehow broke out and, like, got accepted in the, you know, the mainstream hardcore, the cool group of hardcore.

I don't know what to call it. Like, you know, where we could, like, play. and stuff like that. They kind of like always had this stigma and I don't know why like... They started to break through it right at the end. And then they like called it quit. I guess unofficially called it quits, whatever.

And then that's like where I'm probably slightly responsible for that too. The guy kind of swooped in and, you know, it's kind of, I don't know, yeah. I remember they kind of got lumped in with like a beat down. Yeah. Like, and you could listen to him and understand why. Yeah, but it's all played by like,

because I don't know how it is for you guys, but there was a scene of like beat down shows that were happening in Chicago. Oh, it's a whole different world. There was a whole other world, right? And that's kind of having played drums for detain one time. Yes. I can tell you I can see why

they're lumped in there, you know. There's whole palm muted songs. Yeah. Where the palm is there the whole time. Palm ain't moving. The palm is detained on that bridge. Pardon this interruption.

It's AG1 time. Let's talk about AG1, Bo. This is my first today. This is your first today. Shall we? Let's enjoy. Cheers, mate. Cheers.

Here's to you. Wow, he really won for it. And there you go. That just goes to show you how easy it is. It's that. I did that. That took me five seconds. You watched it.

And now my body. is happy. It was not a few minutes ago. And that's the thing that we want to emphasize is that like it's just a daily thing you forget about. Yeah. I look forward to it. It's usually how I start my day. Today was a weird day for me. But that's a great day. It's a good. It is usually how I start my day. I feel you've often said it best. I've noticed when I don't take it, which shows me that my body likes it. And we have not been sick on record. One time since we started, which just goes to show, this gorgeous daily supplement we've been taking, thanks to our buddies at AG1, is a health-altering thing for the best. I will be packing eight packs for England because I ain't going nowhere without it.

This is, I mean, this is going to be an amazing test because I've never traveled internationally without getting sick. There you go. So this is like, this is, this could be a groundbreaking thing for me, frankly. What else? Code hard lore. Yeah. Athletic greens.com slash hardlore. Yes.

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special. Okay. Back to the episode. So Will comes along. So Will comes along. So Will comes along. So will like, this is it. Yeah. Yes. I love a muse. I love that. That's great. Yeah. And he's like, tell me about the demo. All right. So, so Will comes along. Derek is true love. What else was Derek? Derek was in face reality also. I'm sorry. I missed that. I missed that. Drum God. True. He, so it's like he's going to be the drummer. And in, and in, and in, true love, like, very fast, very, like, he, you know, they kind of, like, had him restricted, where it's, like, I knew he had this, like, swagger to him. Yeah, that was just...

Well, he posted drum videos every day playing, like, Jay Cole songs and shit. Right, right, and that's where, like, he could clearly, like, swagged out of his mind. And that's what, like, he, like, he and I, like, synced on, like, that other level where he's, like, like, into, like, Jay Dilla and, like, all the, like, beats and stuff like that. Yeah. I'm like, this is perfect, like, this hip hop kind of. influenced like drummer like yes like come come with me so so i swoots you know i i got this big coat and i like i've got will with me yeah i've got i've got derrick with me yeah and then i'm like

okay like feeling up the rest of the line up i need the reality stone breaking wheel is is like a touring thing at the time breaking wheel yeah so he's like so mike plays in in this band breaking wheel which is like metal death metal type band um and riffs galore so you know the man can riff. Just like a shredder also just like the funniest dude just like and like I knew him from like around the scene and stuff like that too and he was also like a diehard

Lions fan like we would watch football games together and stuff like that and he's just like he's sick for the lions dude. And he's like anybody from like not here like he's the most Michigan fucking person like in the world and it's just like, he's like, heart of gold, like, purist, like, I just don't know how to describe it.

And it's just like, so he's just like, yes. Like, I'm like, you are the most, like, best person for this job. Like, also just like good, good time, good, good guy to hang around. And it happens to be an unbelievable musician. Just like happens to be. With cool, long hair. Yep. So then, and then him and Will, like, detain and breaking wheel, like, they had like a history and stuff like that too.

So like, they. they were connected they're already like you know guitar fucking gods like sending things to each other like and then i'm gonna you know do this and you're gonna do this so we're gonna harmonize this part and like so they're like already like kick you know kicking it off like just they got it all lined up like they got their visions and then and then you gave dennis the position that he once gave you you were like you gave it you did the job you let dennis do the job exactly so then i'm like all right who's going to play bass. Dennis, like, has kind of been, like, messing around on the dummy stick.

We called it, we called him the string player early on because, like, he just played the top string. String. The string. And we always had a joke that we would, like, take all the strings off the base and just have one or, like. I believe on the demo, like, he's credited it says, Dennis, string. String. You're Mikey Poems.

Mikey Poems. What is Derek? Derek, I think it just says God. God. Yeah. And I don't know what the guitar players say. It might just say like something, you know, some fat bill or something. Fat bill like acts or something like something, you know, something that's been done before. But, you know. Sure. Um, so yeah, that's kind of how we get the group together. And, uh, that demo popped right away. And that came out in Newark because like here's the thing is. It didn't though, because freedom sowed the seeds.

Ah. It did. It was like, it laid the foundation for whatever you guys did next was going. to be sick. But we didn't see it like that at all because it's like we all had done other side projects that nobody fucking cared about. And that's okay. Like maybe they just weren't ready for the world. But we were like like the freedom crew and and even detain and breaking like we were all like starting bands just for the sake of like playing local shows and stuff like that because it was there just like wasn't many bands. So like we were always starting these new projects. And like this, we all saw this as nothing, nothing different than that. It was just. like, ah, we're just going to start this, like, you know, maybe we'll open a show or two.

You know, Dom's going to be, like, our biggest fan because he just, that's just automatic. Like anything we do. That never changes. And he's just like, you know, it was just like, yeah, like, maybe a couple of our friends will, like, you know, dance for us. And, and that'll be it. And so it wasn't like this thing where it's like, I'm going to, everybody who liked freedom is now going to like this. And everybody liked detain. It was not.

we didn't think that at all. It was just like, oh, like, maybe we'll play a show? Like, I don't know. Let's get this demo. And, you know, I remember putting it out. And then it was like immediately, uh, our first show was some months later. And it was forced orders like last, hurrah, their last like US, uh, whatever last Detroit show was coming up. And they asked us like, hey, would you guys want to play?

And I remember being like, I don't like, I don't know if we're ready. I don't know if people are going to care. Like, it was that soon? yeah like that was that well that's not long I think demo I mean yeah 2019 18 18 yeah which you know we lost a big chunk of time there

so that kind of fucks everything out that maybe is why I feel like yeah a band longer yeah no so so so whatever we do that and we're just like yeah you know we'll open the show like you know let's see how this goes and you know we'll see if we want to play anything else

and then like that show it's like a third Thursday night and it's like we're playing at like 6 o'clock because it was also like all of our bands it was like detain and freedom and this other band I did Motor City Madness and fucking true love. Which Nick sang in, right? Who sang it? Oh no, Jake sang it, right? Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes. Nick played drugs. A little, yep, yep. Classic. Which, yep. I have. Thank you. Thank you for your support. Still probably have a lot of them around here somewhere. If anybody's interesting. anyways so we uh whatever so there's the show and like i already feel bad that we're playing it

because it's like oh it's like we're playing in every other like local band here and it's like you know that thing where it's just like i played three sets that night it was like felt bad like oh i don't you know here i am like wasting people's time with this thing but it was like the complete opposite where it was like still to date like all of ours like favorite show and it was fucking nuts and it was like i don't know what had happened but it was like Detroit, all of our friends, like, were getting behind this demo and us. And it was just like, oh, like, all right, we, like, we have something here, I think. Like, people are eating this and like, all right, like, maybe, you know, and then like that same night, it's like, I had sent a demo to Sam.

I know it got brought up that he never signs anybody off the demo. But I sent him a demo. In addition, he sees like a clip from that show where it's like, you know, old school pylon. just like, you know, looking good. And he's like, hey, like, you want to do a seven inch? And then, he put out freedom, though. He put out freedom. So Sam's already like.

So there's something there. You weren't a stranger. No, we weren't. We weren't. So he knew me and Dennis and what, you know, all that. He had his triple tendrils wrapped around you guys already. Yes. Yes.

So, you know, maybe he's like eyeing it. Like, I don't know. What is this all about? And so, you know, he like hits us up. he's like, oh, you know, you want to put out a, I think he offers to put out a seven inch and we're like, how about an LP? He's like, sure. So then, so, because we were just like,

oh, it'd be funny if we went straight from demo to LP and like, let's just like, let's just do that. So, yeah, that kind of takes us up to the, so then we're like, all right, we got to start writing for this LP. Another day. That takes us to just another day. So my question is, is there's a lot of melody used in the band like throughout

does that stem from your suicide machines days like is that just something that you always liked I think yes that's always been like yes I've always liked that kind of Because it's not easy to do No oh no I'm very difficult

And I'm learning that the hard way like Trying to do like especially this new This new record like some of those songs live It's like okay I got to like warm up been like, you know, get whatever. Some of the, especially the vocal stuff. Obviously, there's like always been guitar stuff. A lot of that also comes from like,

there's always been like some like E-town influence and just like kind of that. I mean, the thing has always been with us is just like, no, no boxes, no boundaries. Like let's just do whatever the fuck we want. Like I, like we will. And like from the demo, it was like, you know, some hard tracks. And then there was like this instrumental track that was just like, it's we always joke it was called loading and we always joke that like it sounded like the gta like loading song so that's like where that came from i i and that i also wrote that on base just

uh for the record it's a great bass line thank you thank you thank you see see i like uh what was the what was the last song called going through going through some things you were going to do going through some more things right that was probably talked about yeah conceptually. Conceptually, I believe at the same time, which I ended up using from my big fucking list of like random shit,

there was going to be a song, that song was maybe going to be called emotional tank ony. And then that ended up becoming on the new record, I was like, okay, let me let me bust one of these out and tank on ye. That's where that came from. So that's, that was also like in the, you know, in the, in the realm of

the overarching lexicon. Of lexicon. Every time I read the word tank on e, I can't help but read it as take on me. The aha song. Fuck yeah. Every single time. I like that song. Tank on me.

Take me on. That's badass. Tell me about, tell me about, like, was that the first LP you'd ever put together? You'd ever, like, personally really put together in your life? Yeah, I was a part of, like, the Freedom did an LP, the USA Hardcore LP. that I was like, I'm a part of that, but not really, because it's like I was the new guy in the band at that point. So, like, Jimmy decides to focus on Edgeman and stuff and I, like, step in and I'm like, the guy now. And that's like when we are, like, putting that together, but I'm like, afraid, you know, I'm trying to, like, put in my input, but it's like, he's the fucking new guy.

Like, what does he know? You know, so I'm just kind of, like, sitting back. You know, I'm like, all right, like, I'll let them piece that together. Yeah. Um, so I didn't really like help too much with like writing. But, uh, yeah. So like just another day is like, oh, like, all right. Like this is, you know, my time, our time to like just let's try.

Let's see how this goes, you know. Yeah. It's a lot of work. It is a lot of work. It's a lot of work. But like, like, I feel like that was the first leaving that, like leaving the studio after we did that. Um, shout out to Andy, brick top studio in Chicago.

Also, he's the one who recorded it. And like, he definitely helped us. take that next step to just like getting us all mentally like at least for me he's like kind of coaching me through it because I'm I don't you know I at that point like I don't even know what my voice sounds like I'm like still figuring it out and I still kind of am but it's like I remember leaving that recording session and just being like that weight just like off the shoulders and just being like holy shit like we didn't help like listening back to those and like we did that like this is like five fucking idiots from Detroit, Michigan, put this thing together and it like sounded.

It's great. It's great. It's like good sounding recording that I had been a part of too. It does sound very good. And so it was just like, I think we went into that being like, yeah, we want to sound like, destroy the opposition and like biohazard. And it's like, and that's like kind of what I, it obviously like that's a stretch. but like, it's, it's, like, I was like, shit.

Yeah, it's like, it's like, it's like, there's, there's modern, uh, tape, like little garnishes of all of those things. Right. Where I was just like, holy shit. Like every time I've ever recorded, I've like said, I want it to sound like this. And it does, it just sounds like whatever. The guy wants it to sound like, which is fine. There's nothing better than sending the mix off to be mastered.

Oh. Because then you're like, okay. we got it. Yeah, but then sometimes you get the master back. Yeah. And you're like, damn, this is fucked up. And then there needs to be a new mix because it's fucking up the master. Oh, shit.

That doesn't happen. Yeah, I never been on that end. That sucks. Oh, boy, does it? That must suck. So tell me, let's talk God forgives for a bit. Because you talked about how that's like the runaway smash hit. Yeah.

The fact that, like, when I go back and listen to that song now, it blows me away how many. things you do in under two minutes. Yeah. Like I'm so jealous of that song. Like what? Explain. It's it's it's like verse chorus verse pit.

Where the chorus thing happens one time. But it's it's it's so clearly a chorus and like a catchy thing that everybody knows it and sings it like a chorus. And then, but then the pit happens and the song's over. It's perfect. That's perfect. It's this perfectly. structured thing. Did you feel that way when you guys

finished that song? I remember so that's a fat bill original of course. Of course. And I remember like I had to leave when we were jamming that time I had to go somewhere and then I remember them sending the the live room like demo to me and they're

like Mikey like we did it like we crack the code like this is this is going to be the track and I and I didn't the shitty recording on the phone it didn't translate or could because I thought exactly that in the worst possible way where I'm like it's just a bunch of parts like what's going you know I'm like oh and then there's this like yeah the breakdown and all these it's cool but I it it didn't so I didn't understand it

I was like yeah it sounds cool guys but then and they're but they're just like no like this is like oh like you know they're just like feeling great they knew so so that feeling was it seems like that was it seems like that was in the room I just didn't happen to be in the room that time but then as as we started, you know, jamming it and stuff like that. Then I was like, okay, like, yeah, you know, I'm into this one. So good. It's a fucking, it's a hardcore masterpiece. Well, thank you.

That's a college lecture type part. We go, look at Exhibit A. They don't do the chorus again. Yeah. Well, you know, and that's something that, uh, I feel like freedom did a lot of that, too, or it's just like, you do a part and then you just never do it again. And I don't, I don't know, I don't know why like. It's just like, that's not how to write music.

You know, it's not. How to not do it. And I feel like that kind of comes from like a lot of the old school, like bands that when you see them live, they play these songs that are like five minutes long and there, the chorus happens three times. 50 times. And then it's like first chorus like, you know, up here like Sky, you know, everybody's like singing it.

And then by the third one, it's like, you know, they're just like, hey, we did this. Pace in the pit. they're just kind of like, yeah, right, like, you know, if there's a breakdown at the end, they're just like waiting for that. So I feel like that was kind of always like, let's just like get in, give it to them, get out. You know who really cracked the single chorus part was TY,

watching them the other night. And I just kind of like really paying attention to how people reacted to the parts of the songs. Yeah, their formula is like, uh, intro accent. that are simple but no band has ever done before. Verse with one billion lyrics that somehow you know all of them.

Impossible. And then it'll be like chorus, pit sometimes, little pit, mini pit. Yeah, yeah. And then either second chorus or just bridge. Yeah. Bad ass. Very badass. Yeah.

That set was just biblical. That was like. and yeah like people knowing the verses and just knowing every lyric and my like me myself I'm like I know every lyric how is everyone dude and I'm not I'm not I'm a singer but like I'm not a lyric guy at all like I don't I'm a riff guy I go yeah yeah I like riffs I like you know yeah or drums or drums or drums or even bass probably go to drums first it's just the easiest to pick up you know if I'm if I'm into a band if a guy if a big part of guy goes,

but I'm going to hear that over everything. Dude, you know what my favorite one of those is? I thought of this the other day. I don't know if you fuck with the record, but roots, bloody roots. There's the pause. I'm not a big rootsman. Dude, that Phil is so fucking sick at that part.

Anyway. Yeah, he's the goat. Yeah. So just another day. You've done it. You've made your first LP. it yeah did you tour on that uh we played maybe three or four shows and then a little thing called covid 19 happened that's what was that so you had to have been there you had to have been

um yeah so that so it's like we play a couple shows uh a little bit on the east coast i don't think we ever made it to the west coast we played f y a and then i think like a show after that and then it was like, shut down. World's over. You were like a prime example of a band that was like, the fuse was lit. And then someone was like, put it out. Yeah. You know?

Definitely. And that was definitely, you know, a little blow to whatever, our steam and just, it was like, all right, well, they say, you know, a couple weeks. Oh, a couple months. Well, this summer. and then it was like so much time went by and then we're all kind of you know as we all were just like depressed and like stuck in like these awful habits where we're not being creative

and like we're not getting together and blah blah blah so it's like yeah that took some wind out of the sales we ended up like putting together a seven inch during that time halo and wings let's talk about it the halo and wings good second can I get a large halo and wings with a Diet Coke you know when when I presented that name I was like I was like I like this title but people are going to go to

because everybody's playing video games and eating wings right now like this is where their heads are going to go and they're like no you're good like nobody's going to think that I'm sure enough they fucking thought and that's okay but that's okay that that to me that adds to the like Meg is kind of funny yeah yeah yeah yeah but like the overarching like the seriousness is like yeah it's about like dying and when you die like if you go to have any good halo wings it's like really dark and like but yes that was the uh so that happens um we were putting that together and stuff go back to andy we we record that um how fast did that whole thing come together

uh that was very fast like how do you guys do it man i know we recorded that and i think it was that and I think it was a Friday night into a Saturday and then we went home so like a day and a half when did like right like when did you decide how far into the pandemic were you like let's do a seven inch um like not not quick enough where it was like all of a sudden it was like oh shit like we should probably be doing something oh okay so I didn't do anything I didn't write one thing during it so I get is that true oh not one but you were sitting on the god's hate that body kind of but I that I guess I'm completely wrong. I'm lying. God's 8 was done and you were sitting on it?

Oh yeah. Way done. Like before the pandemic. August 2019, God's 8 record was done. So this whole hubbub about the pandemic helped us. No, it was done. It's a lie. Interesting. It's not true.

I wish I did more. Do you wish you did more? Fuck yeah. No, you did perfect. You guys put out a fucking seven inch. Yeah, but it's crazy. But it didn't. I mean, you know, it was all good and dandy.

But then, like, right when it comes out, shows are back. And then it, you know, it kind of like, oh, shit, shows are back. So I feel like it kind of got a little lot. But that's like kind of was the intention anyways. It's like, keep the name popping. Keep the name popping. Like, it makes no sense to go from LP to 7 inch. And like, let's just like put out this thing that one day will be in like a dollar bin.

And someone would be like, wait, they put out a 7 inch. That's it. EPs are forgotten. So if you go into it knowing that, that's, sick. No. And so we did. I love to do that.

Interesting. But it rocks still. Do you, like, are you planning those songs? We didn't, you know, tied down. But we, there's one song that has kind of stuck around called Boa Not for Me. I think it's the second earth. But not for me. Yeah.

It's a great one. Thank you. Yep. Thank you. Thank you. And. And then did writing for the second LP start? shortly after that?

Yeah, pretty much. Time wise. Gridiron came a little bit before that. Okay, so, and that makes sense that that is Will's like, pandemic project is gridiron. His Call of Duty Wars on there.

Right, which is funny because, like, I remember I'm, fuck, I don't, I'm shit at video games. So, and I was trying to, like, get into it with them, and they're all getting on Call of Duty, and I'm like, just being awful. And it's, like, one of those,

games where it's I'm the last player so everybody's like looking at my screen and I'm just like hiding somewhere and they're like Mikey what are you doing like do this and then like I start doing it and then I whatever they're just clowning me the whole time so I'm like all right I'm out of this whole thing and then and then like in comes they're like yeah we're going to do this band and uh which um gridiron's one of my favorite bands and obviously I like love those guys and I think you wrote my favorite gridiron lyric oh which is when she's shit hit in the fan, you go to Lawyertown? Oh, yeah.

Lawyer Town to Boyertown to Lawyer Town. Boy, what's the lyrics? PA to the D, Grand Rapids to Boyertown, when shit hit in the fan, you go to Lawyer Town. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think I just presented Carl. I was like, all right, I've got this rhyme here. Hear me out.

You're from Boyertown. You somehow connected to Lawyer Town. And he was into it. He connected those dots. I just, I just gave him, you know, the ingredients. Yes, and I was like, all right, make the pie, buddy. Yeah, I love it. He made that pie.

He made that pie. Were there other, like, were there other gridiron lyrics on there? Who get arithmetic, bitch, I just grind much more. I think that's all Carl or will. That's a great one. I think 258, like that whole concept, we were together. I think I went out to PA for like their first. show. And it was just like the car up, the car right up to the show.

Cooking. We're just cooking because it was like, all right, they're going to do this LP. And I was like, Carl, you got lyrics? And he's like, I don't know, kind of. So it's just like, we're just cooking, just feeding him stuff. See, now I think this is, gridiron took the path of like hilarious lyrics. Yes. Where, where Negg, you were like, I'm going to do my own thing. I'm going to speak my mind now. Yeah. And that wasn't like intentional. I don't think. I think it's just maybe where I was at or something. I don't really know. Well, and people, you figured out that people liked your band.

So maybe you're like, Yeah. That might have had something to do with it. And I'm trying to think what else. I think the like bench, trench, like that was a little something we were cooking up that drive to. I mean, that is that revolutionized society. I would say.

Well, thank you. That changed the English language, trench and bench. Yeah, a little bit. But, you know, obviously they fucking did everything on, you know, who am I to just, that's all them. That's all them. I'm just curious where things came. Because I know, like, Will, as a writer, I, you know, I think he's getting his flowers a little bit now. But down the road, people are going to look back and be like, damn, like, this dude was, like, this run that he's on right now.

is like there's not many modern good like riffers writers that are comparable I would say I agree I agree and I try not to let him hear these things so hopefully he's not listening to this because I don't you know it's like he is sad I know he's listening hi Will

because it's all just going to his head and it's just you know and then he's going to be like I'm the shit I can just phone this in and I don't think he ever know and I do too I'm so proud of him and he's very talented. That little moon-faced fucker. And wearing all my shirts. He did it, man.

He grew up and did it. And I feel, you know, like I'm also somewhat responsible, so you're welcome to hardcore. Because I feel like I kind of put him over. You lit the rocket. You let the rock. So, yep, you're welcome. Okay. Tell me about outcry, Mikey. What do you want to hear?

To break it down for me, dude What was the goal with this one? You said so many things. You've accomplished so many things musically. It's like more melodic. Yeah. Yeah. To back.

Was that a goal from the rip just to have some fucking hooks or what? A little bit. I feel like we there was like some things where it's like, okay, we kind of like looked at what do we do? What do we do? that's a little bit different than like other bands.

Not that we're looking over our shoulder or anything like that, but it was just like, oh, what do we, you know, what do we want to lean into? And it was like, hey, I really like this, like, we had a couple tracks on just another day, like one of those nights and stolen life. That were a couple of my favorite songs. Yeah.

Thank you. And so I was like, I really like these songs. And I think the rest of us were kind of just like, yeah, you know, we don't want to write the same record twice. We want to like do something different, but it still be us. And, you know, I think in that was like realizing what parts worked live, what parts don't work live, kind of having that in the back of our mind. And I also feel like playing shows again, like kind of lit the fire again.

Or it's just like, because we also thought we're like, oh, are we like a forgotten pandemic ban? Like is it never going to come back for us? which we were super grateful that anybody ever cared to begin with so it's just like it's not like we're... No, that's a valid fear. I mean, you just... You don't know.

Right, and it's like we didn't think that we were owed anything. So it's just like, I don't know. Like, there's so many new bands that are, you know, it was like gridiron could fucking take over the world, which they kind of did. But like, I was like, oh, Will's probably going to just want to do this full time. And I understand because it's awesome. So, so, you know, so writing for that, it was just like,

we didn't think too much we were just just flowing it was just like all right like you know we were just getting in the room putting songs together will was coming up with ideas Mike was coming up with ideas and it was just it's just what came out you know and and and me like lyrically I was just kind of doing the same shit where I was just writing a bunch of songs I would just write songs and just like I don't know if this is going to be a song in the album but I wrote the song and I kind of tried to like do it like that and then just like if I could tailor some of those words to fit into a song. Other than that, yeah, I, you know, I think it's, it's us. It is you.

It's, you know, that's where we're at. I'll cry. Oh, yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Hook. Yeah, that's hook. A lot of, a lot of influence.

I'll give some flowers to Hunter Demon self-titled. I was thinking of that a lot with a lot of those like yeah kind of hooky chorus type things. Which is a bold move because that man is a classically trained opera singer. Yeah. Well, you know, wasn't trying to, wasn't trying to mimic that but just like, you know, we all love that record.

Inserting the melody where one might not think it belongs. Yes. Yes. I'm all about, you know damn well. I'm all about that. I know you're all about it. Thank you. Thank you.

You know, I really do it really well on that record. I'll give, who does? Sorry, sorry, my God. Sorry. No, I was just going to pay respects to Colin that, like, I feel like you, you helped, that's sorry. You helped, like, people be okay with, like, hearing that kind of melody and stuff, too. You helped, you put the first step forward, so, so I appreciate that.

Oh, thanks, Martin. As, as Bo rolls as high. Thank you so much, Mike. Bo, you contribute a lot to hardcore, too. Huh? He did, man. You went, I don't know. Got it do down, down, you know that one?

I sang on that one. There's a melody on that one. There is. Yep, yep, I've seen it. Music video. I seen it. Oh, the music video, yeah. Music video.

Who's music video? Yours. Yours? For take on me, right? That's the first. Was that the first music video that, like, the first thing they came out for it? It wasn't the, after the record came out. It was like a single.

It was like a single. It was like a single. It was like a single. But it was a single, right? Yeah, yeah. I think, got you. Okay. Yeah.

Tell me about filming that video. There's a little, there's a little lore about that day, Mike. Oh, yeah. Dude, you could have almost been in it. I could have been in it, man. You should have been. That was the day where I was flying to Chicago for to do the Maddie episode.

Oh, shit. And my plane emergency landed. In Detroit. In Detroit. That's right. And none of them could pick me up because they were all like staying in a house together to get up to film the music video at 6 a.m. Yeah, I think five, I don't know, whenever the sun, yeah, probably 6 a.m.

But yep, it was like, I remember you texting and you're like, hey, you got room. And I was like, honestly, I've got five guys staying here. Like, it's going to be a little rough. But hey, you know, like, here's my address. If you could, you know, if you want to Uber here, like, you always got a place here, you know, but. But, uh, largely. He picked me up. Yeah.

Uh, much better option. Yep. I mean, his house, dude, his basement was like, I could have slept for three days down there. And then drove me to the airport in the morning. And while he was driving to the airport, I was like, yeah, they're already filming. And he was like, I have things in the car that they need for the shoot. Are you sure? Nobody told me.

Did they get there? They got there. Yep. Shout out to my buddy, G. Will, Jake, who he's my little gopher. Our little gopher. Is your PA? Yeah. He does collide records.

Shout to Clyde Records. Nice to do it. Yep. Anyways, he's my young bull. But anyway. Isn't it nice to have young bowls in the world now? Dude, it's so nice. After being the young bowls for so long?

After eating shit for so long. You know, and that's the other thing is like sometimes I'm tired of shit. Sometimes I think of like after playing tied down, people are like, like, we run into people who like we haven't seen in, you know, 10 years and, you know, they dropped out of hardcore. And they're like, it's crazy. Like your band's gotten so big. and like you guys are doing this and like man and I'm like oh you know yeah it is crazy you know

I'm just just enjoying it as it is but then I'm also like well I ate a lot of fucking shit while you guys were like out working your jobs and getting degrees and like doing real things in the world like we were eating a lot of fucking shit so so I you know this show is a result of of the gallons and gallons of shit that we've eaten collectively speaking of eating wow let's talk about food

Wow. Oh. You know? You're going to give me, all right. You present it to me because I want to hear you say it. You want to hear it? Yeah, I want to hear it. So, Mike, there's a question we like to ask, Arge.

What could it be? We're going to ask you the Golden Archer's question, okay? You're on tour. You're doing the longest tour, never-ending game is ever done. It's like five days. It's like never-ending tour. You're driving down the highway. You see a magical sign that has all the places on it.

Every single one. Doesn't matter where you are. Somebody's, who's driving in this situation? Are you the driver? Who's the wheel man? Probably, probably me or Will. Will drives a lot, actually. Okay.

Well, Will is not shit-faced at this time. He is driving. You're next to him. Okay. You say, Will, pull over. They got this. Yep. What is never-ending game stopping for?

Well, let me paint you a real life scenario that happened Derek and I are driving to Chicago to record Outcry the album and we are we hit some god awful traffic 94 West just like I don't big big accident some bullshit and uh we're starving we're just like oh my god and this traffic like adds an hour or two to our

and it's like we're trying to get to Chicago so we can set up the drum so then he can hit it first thing in the morning and it's like we really want to get there. We get out of traffic. Traffic just starts lightning up. We're starving. We see a sign for something. And we're just, he's just like, he screams.

And I'm like, what? Like another accident. Something's wrong. And he's like, look. And it's Chick-fil-A. Next exit. Chick-fil-A. And then it was Sunday and you were crushed?

No, no. It was like a Friday. We were, that was it. So it's Chick-fil-A. Derek and I also were like long-time vegetarians. And we're like off it. I'm like a year or two off of it.

So Chick-fil-A is just like mind-blowing to us. Just like, it's all mind-blowing to us. But right now that's like, that's it. We have often told, like, when we eat a chick-fil-a, we often tell Chris, like,

dude, if there was ever like a thing, like a fast food thing that you should, tribe because ground beef, I understand being weird to vegetarians or no. The quality of chickens are, it's undeniable. They're descendants of the T-Rex. They got to go. We got to get

they could rise up and kill us all. Oh, yeah. I got no worries eating. What do you birds? What do you order at Chick-fil- what's the move? Dude, I get like menu anxiety, so I just start listing stuff off as it's like in front of me.

So I'll just be like, oh, the number five and the number, three meal Entre man Oh yeah I got to Pretty much I always end up With nuggets and a sandwich

There you Beautiful I've been a same For one Lately I've been a two sandwich man Anywhere I go Two chiquelais sandwich I'm an airport Chick-filet guy

Like if chick-filet is at an airport I'm like okay This Because something about it Doesn't Hurt you know Dude there's a chick flay In the Philly airport

and they have Pepsi. Pepsi. See? It's very upsetting. Paper straws, dude. Yeah, I feel like I've seen that at airports where it's like they have to have

whatever the airport has or something. Yeah, what's that all about? Andrew Baker used to have a famous expression in our van. It's a beautiful day at Chick-fil-A. And it always was. He wasn't lying. It just like doesn't hurt to eat.

It doesn't kill you. you. Yeah. They are wildly homophobic, which... Obviously, you know, sucks. We're talking about the food only. Yeah. Yep. What sauce? What's your sauce? Yeah, yeah. Oh, I just go Chick-fil-A sauce. I don't know any

that. I just... In these situations, I turn to Will. Will's like my menu guide because he's like, oh, dude, you got to get fucking three barbecues. Exactly. He'll be like, oh, you got to add this minus this and then get it like this. So I just like, I'm like, you know, it's like...

With sunglasses? strapped to his head and a backwards hat that's sitting up there. Exactly. You know, you don't tell Michael Jordan how to shoot a jumper. You just, hey, just do it,

buddy. Just guide me. Words of wisdom. Colin, you ever fuck with the honey roasted barbecue? Yeah, I think it's pretty good. But it's less swagged out chick-fil-a-sau.

Oh, is it? But is the chick-fil-a-what-a-chip-fil-a-sau. Chick-fil-A is honey-mustred barbecue ranch. It's just honey-musted barbecue. But you won't taste the ranch. You don't understand. It's never a taste thing. No, I know, but it's not really, it's more mustard than cream.

Okay. All right. I'll try it. I mix it with ranch because I wish it was ranch here. Gotcha. Are we, are we a ranch podcast? Bo. Not me. No. That's, you know, I'm, I'm all in. He's disgusting. He buys the Jets fucking bottle. Oh, dude. Me too.

You gotta. That grossed me on. I got in the fridge right now, buddy. I squarted it straight into my mouth and he just threw up. I literally dry heaved. I had to wash down my bite. I feel like ranch is kind of a Midwest thing maybe. Yeah.

Is that true? What do you guys think? California, I think. California, I think, was the origin. Oh, is that true? Okay. Yeah. Okay, okay.

We had to do something to it because our pizza was so bad for so long. Dude, some of the worst pizza I've ever had. It's here now. It's getting better. It's getting better. Yeah. Colleen, somebody figured out. We never talked about on that, on our Euro tour,

we were somewhere in Germany where the entire tour, this wasn't the time when we found the place in Sweden. Sweden, that was the best day in my whole. That was incredible. We were someplace and we all got margarita pizzas and just ate on the sidewalk. Do you remember that? We like sat under scaffolding that was under construction.

And all of us were just like looking around like dregs. I remember the one were you, was it with you guys where we ordered? the pizza delivered and then after two hours it didn't come so we ordered it again and then two hours later both came so four hours later both orders came

and we wouldn't and we wouldn't pay the first guy and he was just like screaming pizza delivery in Germany takes four hours it's a disgrace dude I had a crazy mishap last night I ordered from like a pub that I like on Grubhub I got someone else's

completely wrong I like a like the burger that they had it um I got someone else's complete order, but it was just like a bunch of wings. Oh. And I said, hey, this isn't my. I got someone else's. They refunded my money and I had a great meal. Yeah, I do that on DoorDash once a week.

I say, hey, my food didn't come. Oh, excuse me. And that's 100% exactly what I ordered. In your stomach. Right. Classic. I tip 50%, but then I get it, I'm going to get it all back. So you headline tie, you basically headline tie down.

You put out two LPs, two EPs. You love Chick-fil-A. What else does the world need to know about you? You say you got a lot on your mind. What's one thing where you've been dying to say on the show? Well, one thing in regards to this podcast, Hit me. My hardest breakdown.

A band that doesn't get enough respect for being breakdown kings. from Pittsburgh, PA, enemy mind. Oh, wow. I'm given the song called We Hate You, featuring Pierre from KnuckleDust. Also, knuckle dust could also be a breakdown,

you know, arguably some of the best breakdowns. But yeah, I just want to put some respect. Tune to E? Really? Which like, yeah, yeah.

When you're, if you're that hard tuned to E, that's science. You're proving that you're hard as fun. We played with them recently. in the UK and it was just like they're the tightest hardcore band I think I've ever seen is just like so

and it yeah it must be an E because it's but it's dude they just have so much swag. That whole camp of bands are like like pro level musicians pro level like hobbyist musicians it's crazy. Yeah so pro and I feel like don't get the

they get respect don't get me wrong but like they should get more just that even the whole UK thing the whole a ruction records like umbrella is fucking insane. So any of you kids out there, yep, spend a summer getting into that, please. I spent my teenage years punishing those bands on MySpace. I would, every single one of them bands, Bund them out, knuckle dust. I bet they responded every time.

Check your MySpace messages. There's something in there for me just being like, love you guys. Come to California at like 14 or something. Yeah, not realizing they're never going to come over. Mikey Yeah You ever seen a ghost? Ooh

Is that your basement? Yeah It's my basement It looks haunted as much In Detroit It's probably I've never seen a ghost here I've only lived here

About a year Um Yet Yet Yet But But uh Dude who lived here

Definitely died though So it's very possible I don't know I didn't ask Didn't want to know Yeah Well they would have to disclose it So

Is that true? The fact that they didn't means he probably didn't. Oh, gotcha, gotcha. Within a few years, yeah, they have to say it. So they have to be like, okay, and also before he signed, just so you know, really? Are you sure? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

I live in Detroit. I don't know if that applies. Oh, that might be different thing. They pay you to live there. And if you don't want me asking, are you renting or do you? I own. Own. Nice.

Good for you. You fuck with Barbarian. Did you see that one? Barbarian? Movie? Watch it? No. It's about a basement in Detroit.

You should watch it. Oh, no, I did. I did. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. True story? Yeah. It's real?

Yeah, there's like that basement of like the tunnel that like, yeah, yeah, right? He's like measuring. You got one of those? Yeah. Well, funny you say that. There's this room right here that I've never, you know, I've been here and some screaming. No. No, I never seen a ghost or anything.

No. No, no ghost stories Cool Any unexplainable experiences Outside of ghosts You ever time skip or see a Have a big glitch in the Matrix Or see a

Or are you just vibing Frigan alien I'm just You know I'm connected Oh okay To the earth Where I'm like

You're grounded You're an empath You're an empath Yeah it's just It's flowing through me And I just You know So much crazy shit's going on

In this head that I can't tell what's real and fake to begin with. So it's like, I probably did, but, you know, it's just probably, you know, just thought it was every day. Whatever you perceived it. You perceived it as something else, you know.

Exactly. It's just part of the vibe. Exactly. That makes sense. Yeah. What's a Master Killer Tier album that we've maybe forgotten? Oh, that you've forgotten? Yeah.

Hmm. What's something we should put respect on? I mean, I'd be willing to double down and just throw more respect on Kola's life and just throw a declination in there because it's up there for me. Love it. You know, if only there was a way for people to hear it, the way that it was properly, the way that it was originally imagined to be heard. Wouldn't that be great?

Would that be nice? That'd be awesome. I also feel like the original way it's supposed to be heard is like on a cracked CD too. So if that ever becomes, you know. a thing. If those two concepts were to become real. Boy, that would be something. That has like all of their hardest pit parts on it, I think.

Oh, definitely. That video was mentioning earlier of them playing it at Rockabillies on Hall Road. Yeah, I feel like those songs live are, you know, it just hits a little different too. It's dope. You weren't there for this, but I'll just let you know. Jeff and John Brandon outside were we're singing the praises of never ending game

after you play. Dude. That's fucking crazy. That's insane. How does that feel? That's insane. Jeff pulled me aside the next day and was like saying he got emotional during our set and he, whatever. That was awesome. That was like huge like him and

all those guys have been super... The guys. Like the guys that like you know when you start a band here it's like oh, like, we're going to pay respects to them. And it's like, but they're never going to know who we are. Yeah. Like, whole of his life especially.

Freedom played with like other versions of them. And like that was still awesome and all that. But like him being out and being around and like him coming to our shows and stuff. The coolest. He's familiar with the material. And it's like it's the coolest shit in the world. That's bucket list. Yeah.

Bucket list for sure. And I think even more so is like, I'm so happy that he's going to be able to experience that because that band never got to play a fest, like a good big fest and like they never got to, you know, they never got the proper treatment live and like. Yeah, that's a good point.

I don't, did they tour? I don't know much about like the band. I would have to imagine they toured, but like hardcore was so different. Yeah, yeah. Right. It was just so different and they were so dysfunctional

that like it never, panned out the way that it should have. I think they did one of those, like a later dynamo fest, like 99 or something like that, that I'm sure was, like, great for them, but it's just, I'm so excited. Like, they're playing Detroit in October, and it's like the same place that, you know, the tie down was. And it's like... Yeah, they get their own fest.

Literally. They're like... Finally. Which is so deserved. I mean, it's like, I'm so going to be, you know, that's going to make me emotional, like seeing it. them get to experience that because it's like I feel like we've been like you know like fucking stealing from them because it's like our whole thing is like based on their thing and it's like

how do we get to you know eat all this candy where like they only had to eat vegetables you know it's like they they deserve to eat the candy too and like have some fun with this so yeah I can't wait for they paved the way for all of us and in a way especially you guys yeah They deserve a piece of the pie. They're the royal pie. Absolutely. So I'm really happy for them. That's really cool.

Agreed. And looking at the size of that place and knowing that it's going to be there too is like very like, holy shit. It's going to the scariest part to me thinking about what it's going to be like when Cold is playing is knowing how many members of scary bands are obligated to pit. Like you're sorry All of them Mikey and I are absolutely 100% obligated to pit as hard as we can

It's going to be a battle to the death I think Oh I mean Amongst the elitist monsters in the world And it's right And it's gonna be eras of like The scariest dudes

Yeah Of all time So it's like Probably haven't been to shows in years Oh definitely Yeah It's gonna be It's gonna be something

Are you guys A couple firearms Falling out You know, we weren't originally going to be able to. But now I think we are. Oh. All right. That's awesome.

We'll leave that at that. But we'll go over to the hard lore listener questions for you, Mikey. Yeah, I can't believe. First question, Taco Bell order. Dude, same deal where I get menu anxiety. So I just like, back in the day, it was like, I would just start listing stuff until I got to $10. Just like, I'll take one of those and one of these. and a cascadillo.

That used to take a while. That used to take me, you know, I'd get fucking 10, you know, eight, yeah, five to eight things. Now, like, you know, it's like 25 bucks is like that. Maybe it's like 20 bucks if I'm like treating myself or whatever, really trying to get full. But, uh, so I just pick random stuff. I mean, the cassidia is usually somewhere at chicken cassidia like somewhere in the mix.

Big fan. People love the chicken cassidia. I'm a big fan, yeah. And that has a sauce on it that I don't mind. I like to say. It is a ranch sauce. And I always order it without, but sometimes they fuck up. And that's the one of the ones that I'll just eat.

Is it because you can't see it? And it's like just, it's shielded by cheese. And I literally don't look at it. That's crazy. Because that's like a pretty good ranch. Okay. There are great ranches in the world, well. One of them's at Jets.

Let me squirt a little shot in your mouth. I would sooner. Oh, my God. So the next question. What is the game? I think Yeah, thanks Thank you for that one

His life The game is nice I figured Yeah It does end But like does it Yeah And I guess the part that doesn't end

Is like You know Violence or something maybe Oh See he's got a lot of his mind He's got a lot of his mind When the Detroit style pizza Hits the table

What's going on inside your mind What's your favorite one I guess Yeah And then how do you feel when you order it? Well, let me tell you guys something. So when I was a kid in elementary school, it was like, we had like pizza Fridays, right?

You know, it was like the lunchroom got pizza. And that pizza. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so that pizza that they brought in that they, like, acted like they made or whatever, was always jets.

So when I was a kid, all I knew was jets was squids. was square pizza, you know, Detroit-style square pizza. So, like, that's all I, like, then I saw, like, Ninja Turtles and they're eating these round pizzas, and I'm like, Mom, how come they got these circle pizza?

Like, why do we get these square ones? So, like, there was a time of my life where it was like, I didn't, I was like, I don't want that, I want the Ninja Turtles. Right. Wow. Obviously, I don't feel that way anymore, but as a kid, it's like,

I don't understand. They're eating pizza that's different. than my pizza. I want, you know, I want whatever. So anyways, Jets is like still just the goat. And it's just like, consistent. It's just like I can be anywhere in Michigan and now they're like kind of around the U.S. And it's like, I know I'm going to get. I know how to make it good. My little secret, get it well done. Get a little, little crisper. And I discovered something guys. Oh. Yeah. I've put together an analogy that may will make Jets make. sense to everybody.

Do it. It is the in-and-out burger of fast food pizza. There you go. Yep. Yeah. Yep. You're absolutely right.

Regional? Yeah, regional. There's better, bougie. Better in some regions. Oh, yeah. Customizable. Not in the affordability.

Yeah, it's inexpensive in Michigan, but not here. Yeah. How do you get your jets? You said, well done. So we're already. Well, done.

You know, I'll get like an XL. Well done. You know, they've got the bold pepperoni. So that's like, you know, the little bowl. Oh,

yeah. A little cups. Um, they have one now that's like a pepperoni lovers where they give you like these gigantic like, I don't know, big old pepperonies. Big run.

The flat ones and the old world. Do they do that? Yeah. Yeah. It's like the mix of like, there's three different ones. There's like a big, big OG one and then the little OG one.

And then so that's, that's been nice. That's, I believe there's a little promo going on for that. now. Anything on that crust or you leave it as is? I'm not a bit, I like the crust the way it is, honestly, but I'll sometimes get a little like shredded parmesan or something like that. I like that. No turbo? I don't like the turbo too much. I get it sometimes, but I don't know. But you're dumping ranch on there anyway,

so. Yeah, exactly. So it's like I'm getting the flavor from that. Like, I don't, that, you know, then I do, then I feel like garbage if I do the turbo with the ranch, which is what I do every time. And here's the thing is like I eat so much of that stuff that like my stomach just knows like, yeah, no, this is good. Like it's like the same if I eat a. It's delicious. It's good for me. Yeah. It's like, oh, I know what to do with this.

Like, yep, this is good for your, for your, you know, whatever. Yeah, we know just where to put this. Exactly. It's like where other people like, oh, like, I got like, I feel like shit. Like especially when bands come to town, they like eat it. And then they're like, oh, am I going to play tonight? And it's like, oh, we get that a lot with Piquads and Luz here. Oh, yeah.

It's like, so heavy. He had his fucking cowardice is what that's called. That's how. Yep, it really is. Merry fuck kill, spin kick, crowd kill, two-stead. Wow. That's fun. Who asked that?

Kev. Shout out Kev. Shout out Kev. I'm going to kill the crowd kill. You guys don't touch each other when you pit. Yeah, I don't like interacting. I like social distancing. Yep, six feet.

I want it wide open. And I just want to do my thing. I want to, you know, I don't, I don't, yeah, I don't, I don't, I'm not, I'm not, I'm with, I'm with you so far. Obviously, but then when people are crowd killing to your band, it's fucking kind of cool. Yeah, it's pretty cool. I kill the crowd killer. What's next, Mike?

But for me, as a showgoer, um, that's the way I'm taking this. Next. Yeah. I'm going to marry the spin kick. Fuck yeah. And then I'm going to fuck the two-step. Is that answer? Is that right? Great answer. I would probably say the same.

Okay. Because I'm not like, like what the, what the world sees as a crowd kill now is not something that I do. Right. Same. I'll make contact all day. Yeah, but you're not. But I'm not, I don't think, I think, I'm, there's got, you got to be tasteful in your execution. Have you ever put your back to the band and just start going down the line?

I mean like that's what I yeah and that's I yeah there you go no I'm dancing brother yeah yeah with I know you're with me with with some style crowd killing is like can be fucking awesome if it's like you're just doing your thing and then you make contact with somebody's head and then you go on doing your thing and it's like you're not like stopping and like you know it's like

you gotta I don't know that that's my takeaway with there's an etiquette to there you gotta make it sexy yeah you gotta make it sexy yeah you gotta make it sexy fucking the spin kick and I'm marrying the two-step I know you are I love a good two-step I feel like they're hard

to come by sometimes these days too and it's like when they hit it's like I'll get in there every time and I put the backpack on it dude the kids are loving skanking I think it's bad I think we're coming oh absolutely you know what I've realized I love

is when whatever the part before the skanking part happens no matter what it is if they're already doing it because they know it's coming They know it's coming. I love that.

I do that every time. And that's more of an, to establish, like, get away from me. Yeah. Dude. This is mine. It is like, hey, this is what's happening next. Yeah. I love, that's a great move.

I love, I love pitting before the pit. Yeah. Sometimes I love just changing it up and you just, like, it's like the hard part and you're doing the two-step. Just to like, just to put it out there like, ah, you don't know what I'm going to do. Like, I'm, you know, I'm like, because I feel like. Keep your haters guessing, you know. Yeah. Like, I like, I like, you know, the, like, the early days when you go to a show and you're just like, oh, I think like this is what you do to this kind of music.

And, you know, just like, just vibe it. No, I'll spin kick a blast. No rules. Yeah. Exactly. You don't know me. You, you fuck with video games, Mike? No.

Like I said, call it. Somebody asked, and I just know that I can't ask. GTA and sports games are like all I play. I recently saved. The real non-gamer answer. I recently saved Sanctuary from Luliffe. Thank you. Oh, did you?

Oh, yeah. I just started. Who is top five mics? Microphones? Top five other guys named Mike. Oh. All right. So number one, I'm going to give it to Mike Waz.

Who is it? My guitar play. Number one, you're starting at one. Okay, I'll go backwards. Yeah, yeah, go back. All right. I wonder what he's going to put for number one. Mike Cesario, number five.

Oh, hell yeah, dude. I was thinking of him earlier as I was watching a video of whatever, of twitching tongues playing a long time ago. Refuge, yeah. Refuge. And you sent that to me, like, look at all these guys in here. Yeah, that was a boo-toe of 2014 or whatever year that was. That was one of the best shows on the tour.

That was the In Love, There's No Law. Thor. The dresser and Angel Dust played that. Wow. Oh, I have some good anecdotes about that show. Please. About Mike. Oh, perfect.

Layed on me. That was where Mike met first. Go ahead. Met Alec. Alec was wearing like a Youth of Today shirt or something. Sounds probably. Sure. Yeah.

And Mike said, that's a six shirt. Sure, dude. It's not OG, but I'd wear it. And then he was asking Derek about his kit. Because true love and freedom. Yeah, I think they, yep, yep, I think those shows, like they were coming off of a tour, like a little weekend. And so it, yep, synced up. Gotcha.

And he's talking to Derek about his kit and like, and he's just doing the mic thing, you know? Oh, yeah. We're like, us as Mike soldiers, you know, know that he's doing his thing. But I imagine Derek in the moment being like, who the fuck was that guy? Mike talking to him about his kit and just being like, oh, hell yeah, dude. Oh, that's fucking sick, man. I'll for sure watch you guys. Just so, Mike, he's the best.

He's the best, and he's my number five. Mike made this for me, my little wrist rest. See? Yep, shout out to a jack of all trades. Basel and oak. Basel and woodworking. Yep, if you need some woodworking done, hit his line.

I can't believe watching that video of him playing drums. It's a criminal that he's not playing drums in a band. Yeah. What's his deal? I don't know. He got, he, you know, Brady just. Brady had, there was, there was only room for one incredible musician in the, in the family. Someone had to start a trade in its place.

It was, it was, there was only room for one doctor who played music. So he had to learn wood instead. Yeah. Learning wood. Other mics. Mike Cesario, number five. Mike Cesario. Hmm.

Open your phone. Type in Mike. Dude, I literally just did. And that's like, it's, it's a Zazario. It's Mike Loss, my number one. Let's go. Let's go sandwiches. So now give us four.

Yeah, it's a great sandwich. Four, we can go, Mike Jordan, Michael Jordan. Yeah. All right. He's number four. Got it. And then who's two? Two.

I'll put myself two. Beautiful. I love it. Humble. Nice. Too humble. And then who's right in the middle? Who's the middle?

Who's the meat? Is there any legendary mics? Like Michael Myers? You fuck with him? I like the Austin Powers one, yeah. Okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah, let's put Mike Myers, Austin Powers. That's a good list.

Not the skisario. So Mike Cesario, Michael Jordan, in this order, Mike Myers, you, yourself, and Mike Wazelenko. Wow. Yeah. That's it. Great list. Yep, thank you for asking that question.

I've been thinking of that one for a long. I figured you've had that one. That's the thing you have in your mind. That's the first thing in the scroll. That's the clip for the episode. American or Lafayette, Coney Island? I go Lafayette because my wife knows the people that own it.

General Lafayette himself. Yep. They're the same thing. It's all fine. It's all good. What's your... It just disappeared. Whoa.

What's your favorite non-hardcore music to listen to? Oh, I love that question. Hmm, non-hardcore. So non, I'm gonna like, you know, not like metal, like, right? I want to go like completely rogue. Yeah, like, just like regular. My like, my chilling music, like, it's Sunday morning. I wake up, get my cup.

I'm putting on a little blue note jazz. Oh, yeah? What, you're a jasmine? Like not, I'm like a fake jasmine, but I just, you know, throw on some stuff and, uh, Like Spotify Best of Jazz or something? Best of Blue Note Jazz in particular. I got really into, um, Spotify best Tiki music recently. What?

It's very pleasant. What is that? What's the sound like? Hey. Give me a mouth or a tiki riff for me. Um, so there's always like a bass sign that's like, Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Hard riff, dude.

Yeah, I could get into that. And then there's just like echoey melodies over it. It's very chill. All right. What time of day are you putting on the teaky? Are you lighting the teaky torch? It never goes out. No, yeah, I like to do my morning routine, wake up and clean

and do stuff like that to like light music for sure. So whenever I wake up at the crack at noon. Nice. I guess as a good last question, who do you do? Oh. Can I give two? I want to give two. I want to give a new school.

You can give five, dude. Well, I want to give a new school. Who do I do? And then I'm going to give an old school. I like that. Let's start old school. I feel like I haven't heard anybody say this guy. And I think he's like the ultimate front person.

Oh. The ultimate like person, guys in the room and you're just like, this guy's a legend. Lorde, Zach, Danny Diablo.

Dude, one of the craziest voices, like easily recognizable. Like, easily recognizable. His whole discography, like his voice from thorns into Scarhead into,

you know, anything he does now. Ice picking. Yeah. Yeah. It's like got, like progressively harder.

Like, harder. Like, it's just like, but even that early voice and even just lyrically just like everything dude lyrically in particular lyric oh my god he's the guy who was like yeah these songs are hard as hell and i'm hard as hell but i'm a i'm a man with emotions i won't take credit for the latter the i'm hard as hell but like that part that emotional thing that's not weird um

i took a lot of influence from the way that he you know wrote those like Krona Thorne's thorn song. So that's a huge... String our blues is like, is like crushingly emotional. Just, yeah, just actual poetry. Yeah. Great answer. Yeah, very good answer.

Thank you. And then I got to give some love to Mr. Jeff G. Friend of the show. Same deal. That band gets like lumped into this thing that's bigger than them, but it's like, lyrically those lyrics speak to me so like just

I feel everything that that is like those words just come off the page and it's like I can see them and it's like I feel like they don't get credit for that because it's like there's so much other lore if you will around the band that uh I so as a lyricist

as a frontman like obviously haven't seen him live before but like the voice the voice is just rabid and insane. Incomparable. And I don't understand, like, on Born and Hard, like, what

what is the recording method? How do they do that? They put him in hell. Yeah, he's in Diablo. With 15 microphones. Yeah, yeah. How many, like, double takes and stuff are there?

I don't know. It's wild. It's crazy. I would love to hear who he does because I, oh. Yeah. Well, please. Yeah.

We'll ask. Yeah. We'll get there. Thank you. He's coming. man this was very fun this is very fun very fun hey me too thank you it's awesome being on like the other end of this because it's like I listen to you guys all the time at work and you know yeah you tell me you scream at your car at us sometimes

yeah what's the maddest you've ever been at either what do we say that where you're like what the fuck guys I feel like I feel like some of the breakdown ones just got to me a little bit you know I don't want to pick sides No, no, you can pick sides. I will defend any of my breakdowns.

Your turning point one kind of got me. Dude, it's a different kind of breakdown. And I get that. And I get it. And it just is. But I understand. Does turning point have better different kinds of breakdowns? Yeah.

For sure. I mean, that's just. Well, he's an honest man. For sure they do. But I wanted to pick the one that like spoke to me. And that's okay. And that's why it's your list. and it's not mine and that's okay

and that's, you know, hey. Do you want to make one for this episode? Yeah. Can I, like a playlist or something? I don't know if I can do it off the top. Yeah. No, no, no. Send us it.

Yeah, do it when you have time and send it to us before, you know. Mikey's top 10 breakdowns. Top 10? Okay. There you go. And you can repeat if you want, especially if it's a turning card song.

Well, that was, this was wonderful. Thank you so much for being here. Wait, I also do Dennis from Freedom. No. Yeah, he's my biggest, he's my, he's my influence, and Bob Ziger. Wow. Local legend. Fuck yeah.

Oh, is he from, he is from Detroit. Yep. Shit, we didn't even talk about other Detroit bands at all. That's probably for the best outside of, fair enough. Yeah. Yeah, nobody wanted to be guys. That's what, like, you guys are asking about, like local bands and stuff. It's like, yeah, it's just a, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to give props to, like, some garbage.

Well, Dennis, you hear that? You hear him like Mikey does you? If you're listening? He knows. Okay, good. He's got a Burger Lord's hat to make. You don't have time to listen to this. But thank you so much for being here.

Thank you guys for having me. Seriously. Dream come true. We wish Neverending Game, nothing but the best. Outcries out now. Dude, how about this? We wish never ending game, never ending fame. Dude, never ending fame.

That's like, if you were E-Town, that would be the best of them. Straight up. Yeah, maybe we'll see if this, if we can believe that out. It's fine. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to copy right that. We'll take that back.

All right. Well, thank you again. This was a, this was a, this was a fun one. The people are going to love it. They're cream in their pants out to this one. This is my first official podcast. So thanks for having me. Really?

Yeah. That makes me think, like, was there anything that we miss that you can think of where you're like, you know what? I've been wanting to say this. No, you know, it just, I, no. It needs to come. out naturally. I didn't want to like come with a script. It's like, ah, if we miss something, then so be it, you know, maybe I can. I'll insert it. Yeah. I'll pop it in. Or just buy my book when it comes. No, no book. No book. No book.

All right. Well, this was lovely. Thank you all for listening. We will see you next week. Outcry, out now, Triple B record. Bye.