HardLore - Militarie Gun - "Life Under the Gun" Deep Dive (With Ian Shelton & Taylor Young)

Episode Date: September 21, 2023

Colin and Bo sat down with Militarie Gun frontman Ian Shelton and producer/engineer Taylor Young in-person at The Pit Recording Studio during the week of Sound & Fury 2023. We talk about Ian's approach to writing, how long this album was finished before the world could hear it, how Taylor became involved, and MG's unique approach to engineering and navigating their success. Enjoy two hours of lore and insight into one of the best albums of 2023. Join the HARDLORE DISCORD: https://discord.gg/jA9rppggef This episode is brought to you by ATHLETIC GREENS! Try AG1 at athleticgreens.com/HARDLORE to receive a free 1-year supply of vitamin D and 5 travel packs of AG1. Join WHATNOT with our special little link to get $15 off your first purchase. Get ready for the first ever Hardlore live auction TOMORROW, March 24th at 8:30 PM EST: https://www.whatnot.com/invite/hardlore Get 20% OFF @manscaped + Free Shipping with promo code HARDLORE at MANSCAPED.com! #ad #manscapedpod FOLLOW MILITARIE GUN: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/MILITARIEGUN TWITTER | https://twitter.com/MILITARIEGUN FOLLOW TAYLOR: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/taylorxyoung/ TWITTER | https://twitter.com/taylorxyoung FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/hardlorepod/ TWITTER | https://twitter.com/hardlorepod SPOTIFY | https://spoti.fi/3J1GIrp APPLE | https://apple.co/3IKBss2 FOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/colinyovng/ TWITTER | https://www.twitter.com/ColinYovng FOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/bosxe/ TWITTER | https://www.twitter.com/bosxe Check out our merch at https://knotfest.com/store/?view=hardlore Find all of our videos at https://knot1.co/3vWXsbx #HardLore #MilitarieGun   HardLore: A Knotfest Series, Fueled by Monster Energy Edited by Steven Grise • Title sequence by Nicholas Marzluf Join the HARDLORE PATREON to watch every single weekly episode early and ad-free, alongside exclusive monthly episodes. Join the HARDLORE DISCORD for community discussions and to participate in our future Q&A episodes. FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER, SPOTIFY, APPLE FOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAM FOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER   For sponsorship opportunities, email us! [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Can we start there? Because I've got stuff to say. So let me know. Let's just all, should we just all hug? No. I've hugged. I've hugged everybody except for you.

Yeah, we bumped. I'll hug you out of this. I'm a hugger for sure, but I've never hugged him. I mean, he's recording? He's recording. That's why we're going. Oh.

He's wrong? I'll. Okay, so you guys got to do the handshow. You know? Yeah, it's like we did it. We did it. And that's good. Like yesterday, I think there was a hug.

That was probably the third one. Yeah. You know, hello, welcome. It's hard Lord time. How are you, Bo? I'm doing so good. Feeling great. Me too.

Buzz him. You know, we're in the Valley, San Fernando Valley. We're in Van Nuys, California at the Pit Recording Studio for a very special occasion. This is really the first time we've done something like this. Yeah, yeah, like this. We're going to deep dive into military guns debut LP Life Under. the gun. Here we have frontman, Ian Shelton, and producer Taylor Young,

their reluctant best friends. They had no choice. They fell into it. It's true. How are you guys doing? Good. We're doing good. I was recapping right before this. We went to Sugarfish, so we had a great lunch. I had some sake. I'm now drinking a white cloth. It's a great day. That's a good day. Yeah, it's a great day.

Saturday vibes. I'm on a Tuesday. It is a Tuesday. I am a full-time rocker. Wait, come on. It's a special week. What else is going on? So I guess let's get into life under the gun.

No, wait, we got to get into hugging. Oh. Oh, wow. I felt like we got to start with the hugging. Just to address it. I know. I did. I called you guys reluctant best friends.

Yeah. I think Taylor and I are very similar in a lot of ways where, like, for instance, for instance, Macmill, the singer of Cosmic joke. I hang out with this man. twice a day sometimes I think I've hugged him one time really oh yeah you're just not a touch you guys

but you touch me all the time that feels good to me no I yeah no now I can think I think Colin Colin is a toucher yeah yeah yeah but not a hugger I'm sensory

but don't get too close you guys are a hug so we've never hugged but we we've shook hands once and we both went like whoa that was weird

I don't like that it was in Texas on the God's hate Oh, when you said goodbye. They were leaving. When we were leaving for the, yeah, we continued on for our tour and God's hate flew home. Yeah. And yeah, we, I shook.

Kailen remarks that all of RJC lined up to hug her. And then everyone was like, what the fuck do we do with Taylor? Yeah. You know, and we shook hands. And for one, I thought he needed to moisturize. You have smooth hands as a drummer? I have incredibly smooth skins. my my girlfriend was roasting me for it earlier because she was like you don't do anything to take care of yourself

you barely drink water you don't put on like lotion nothing like but yeah but the sun has also almost killed you yeah i did have like a we talked about it on me yeah yeah poison yeah i've definitely hug taylor before and i'm just not realizing that he hated it like i like i like leaned in and you did the like it's different though because because of the reluctant friendship thing with my like friends I don't mind but it's like I have this other brother where I'm not hugging

brothers love to have one someday not to downgrade our friendship which is immense but we don't hang out every day we sure don't I'll hug my brother any day I'm I wanted to just hug my brother yesterday you didn't get to see him for a while

my favorite thing is that if this ends with anyone hugging it'll have to be on your knees to be in frame On the sky. I'm not doing that. I'll hug you. I'll touch you all day. Oh, fucking.

Let's talk about it. Okay, so I'll say, oh, no, the weird thing is times when we're in group settings and there is a big goodbye. Yeah. And I'm also leaving. Is everyone else hugging Taylor? And then you not. From a distance. Like, all right, no, well, I'll.

It's because I'm going to see you in like 12 hours. You know the end of the Dark Night Rise? when Alfred and Bruce make eye contact with each other and that's enough. We don't greet each other when he shows up either. Yeah, just we start talking. He just shows up. He walks in the door.

Yeah, you walk in the door and go take a shit every single time. Whereas, I mean, he does it too, to be honest. Look at that. He has the fucking... The fourth young? He goes into the other back. There's about eight.

I said that I was another episode. I was like, I'm at least owed an application. I've done since. the previous episode, I've done singing lessons with Teresa Young. Have you really? I have. He has. Did you do that for this record? No, no, no. Oh, okay.

It was more like, don't ever yell. Would you love you, Teresa? I imagine you're going to listen to you. But I have to yell. I have to yell. That's the style. Yeah. Let's go from the top here. Let's get into this record.

This gorgeous looking record. Well, you're a sicko, and you write tons of shit way in advance. We've covered this before. Yeah. When was this written? Before we ever played a show. What? This whole thing? The whole thing. Entire record before we ever played a show. You're fucking sick in the head. So those, the

three EPs that you put out that are now compiled onto one. Yeah. Those were recorded in August 2020. August 2020. With the intention of just being separate EPs? Two of them were recorded. August 2020. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. So one of them was recorded after that. Right.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That one was recorded after Live right of the gun. You're sick. Oh, it's three. Oh, wait a minute. So something that was already out was recorded after that. Yeah. Fuck. That's what let me be normal. He's Nolan. He's Nolan-esque. You knew what you had with this one.

Yeah, well, it was all about building the runway to like to actually be able to land the plane. We knew that the songs were great. So it was like, I want to take as long as possible. We could have had that shit out two years ago. Yeah.

But we wouldn't have had what happened happened. It may have fallen on death fever. Exactly. Yeah, they would have been the way to receive it. So I think that's the big thing because bands will ask me for advice

and I'm like, tour a hard as fuck before you release the record. Like, so many bands rush to release the record for the tour. And you're like, you're going to have more fans after the tour. Why would you, why would you release music before?

You're not gaining anything. Bring awareness. And then. Wow. Yeah. It's part of hardcore, though. Hardcore has a big. instant gratification problem.

Yeah, but hurry up. Hurry up. Let's get this song out for this one show. Or dude, one of my, something I really have been become made aware of and hate is hurry up and produce content for the 90 second reel or TikTok or clip. Yeah, brother. Like that.

Well, you do that. Come on, man. Well, no, I know, I know, but with music, with music, it's like, it's like, it's not, it truly, like, it ain't about the best man winning any more. It's about the best, the band that has like the most reels. If you can make a great reel.

I mean, dude, if you figure out the algorithm. It's half the battle, dude. Having a good reel. Artwork. Huge. I mean, M.G.'s got some fucking reels. You got some real. I mean, we got our biggest one recently. So but you guys are, that's a different thing. You know, I'm not saying you're not good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can, they're not mutually exclusive. You can definitely be more. So, like, I try to focus on TikTok and you can't actually court that. That's just something that happens or does not happen. It happens to you. It does not happen because of you. It's just like, what's happening?

Have you guys seen what's happened to Super Heaven? No. Super Heaven has one million monthly listeners right now. One million. Which is crazy. Really? That's probably most shocking to Super Heaven. They, I don't know if it's TikTok.

I don't know what it is. I originally just saw it because they got added to like a viral song's playlist. I'm going to check. Just curious. Yeah, just the other day. They crossed and it's some random song that just, I don't think it's one of their singles or anything. It's just a song that's...

Apart from a song and a 15 second video. Yeah. And now it's fucking massive. It's the same thing. One point one. Holy, good job. It's got up 100,000 since last time. The other great Taylor in music, congratulations.

So youngest daughter has almost 15 million plays and the next nearest ones are in five million in less. Dude, that's crazy. That means millions upon millions just now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, because it came out with jar. Yeah. Holy shit. Memes equal sustainability at this point.

Dude, when someone made that soldier boy video for us and I was like, well, so the crazy thing was, I was in a bad mood on the first day that it happened and I thought they were, it was like, sorry, this was someone else's idea or something. I thought they were dissing the music video saying it like had been done before. Right. So I just muted the person's account because that's what I do now is this anytime there's anything like it seems like it's going to offend me, I just mute it. Yeah.

and so I muted the account and then it got brought back up later and I was like wait no this is like a really funny video yeah and it was... This could benefit me? Yeah and then I was like okay and then I like DM and I was like you send this to me

I unmuted their account we talk about it a lot but the running man thing with Harms Way came out in the middle of the pandemic when we had no new music out and there was a significant bomb so it's like fuck dude Oppenheimer and Barbie right now is right the memes are half the battle

First, is it like the first movie, the first two movies ever that both consecutively made over 80 million at the same weekend. Is it the first or like the third ever or something like? I think it was, it's like the first that are doing it in like two movies at the same time. Because usually there's not two blockbusters the same weekends. Usually they stagger them because it's all about whipping your dick out. Which is what's awesome is, and you know, not to not to derail a little bit. We're movie guys. Yeah.

No, but this is fun. Nolan, this is his first not. Wonder Brothers movie. Oh, yeah, yeah. And it was definitely a strategic attack against him to put Barbie the same day. Do you think so? And it 100% backfired. And it 100% completely.

I wonder if this is a bigger, I would love to see the opening weekend of Dunkirk versus this because, because, yeah, I think it's probably just only benefited more. I think it's lower. Is this lower? Do you think Oppenheimer is lower? No, no, Dunker is. Yeah, it is obviously lowest. Well, I think this, yeah, this has got to be.

be the biggest since Batman. No. It was Inception and Interception. Inception was for sure third. I think I just saw this metric. Look it up. We don't need the phones. We don't need the phones. Military gun. Life under the gun. debut LP. What makes you when writing these crazy things

in your Gremlin, music, Gremlin brain go, this is an LP song. 100%. Because you say these are all written, but I know I know firsthand. He'll tell you this stinks. And ain't ready. Yeah, but you want to know what songs he told me? Stink?

Very high. Do it Faster. No. Never fucked up once. Never fucked up once. I was thinking about the day I got it. Really? I never said.

No, you never said it about Do It Faster. I said do it faster is quintessential. Yeah. Never fucked up once. It did not change an ounce from beginning to end, but he hated that one when I first played it for him. Which, that's kind of why. I can't even tell you which one that is. You can't tell.

Yeah, fucking right. Yeah, right. No, I mean, for the most part, it's just about, I think. think there's nothing that I'm saving I'm never like this is for something else they like I would say you write with a mission as a record though yeah yeah and so it almost is to fall into line in a sequence yeah because it's like let me be normal it was like okay this is the next thing yeah I was like this is this is track one on LP2 when I wrote it before and then we ended up getting moved before because it's a little bit more hard than and it was

it was a it was a great idea to be like hey here's one new thing because it's the hardest the hardest musically and the softest vocally. So it was a good segue song. I have a question for you. Do it faster. The single version versus the LP version is sounds different. I don't think that's true. There's the

same. I swear to God because you sent I asked you for the record and you sent it to me. I'm going to quote every single European tour driver ever and say, not possible. Okay. I'll accept it. You are listening off of

which is most likely a higher quality thing than Spotify. That would be my... Why would never use Spotify? Let's go. It's our Apple music gang in the house? Oh, dude, 100%. Yes.

We all care about quality. Yeah. I'm artists. I listen to people's like unreleased records and then I'll go be like, oh, let's go listen to their last single. And I,

if I listen my friend's music, I do it on Spotify so that it goes towards their public metrics. And you want to hear what people are hearing. Yeah. I also have Spotify for that.

I do too. And so... It's heartbring. Heartbreak. Spiritual cramp. I was listening to their new LP, and then I went back to listen to their most recent single because their new singles are fucking incredible.

And then I was like, holy shit, it's crazy how much worse Spotify made the sound. It's like 40% worse every time. Same session. It's unbelievable. But the Spotify compression makes it just... It's got all. Is that to make, like, bandwidth more reliable

so that people can... It's crunching the songs to make the loudness the same across most every song. is it, but is it for the sake of normalizing or is it for the sake of your streaming wirelessly, you're never going to have, you're never going to have like skipping. Because nobody's downloading on Spotify.

It's streaming. A huge thing with that is, I think Netflix is the same thing in comparison to other streaming. Netflix downloads so fast. Netflix? Yeah, because it's 500 megabytes. On my phone, like on the plane, like, oh God.

Yeah, it's just compressed a shit. Because our Wi-Fi sucks in our bedroom and the only one we can watch is Netflix because it's just so compressed. You get in 1080I. I ain't seen 1080. Yeah. So does that mean that like as you're writing for this record, you're writing with sequence

in mind? Like yeah, yeah. Obviously we're always, everybody's writing with sequence in mind. But I mean to say like- We've never had a track one that ended up actually being track one. Right. So like with our newest record, which I can talk about that, which is kind of weird, we had all the songs and then like the sequence was.

like weeks of deliberation. We're dealing with that right now with RJC. We just recorded the RJC record and we're trying to figure out what the order, because that was just like write as many songs as we can and figure it out later where the military gun process was two years of writing that and putting it into place and rearranging. I mean, for a band like military gun, you kind of have to front load. Yeah. But the B side's got some.

The B side, I mean, it's funny. So I noticed major music. press is one thing and then like minor music press. So minor music press is the one that's going like actually basically the record's way better after track three. And then major music press is like oh track three is amazing. Yeah yeah yeah exactly.

8.5. I've only heard track one. Yeah. Yeah. 9.2. But yeah. So sway two and see you around and think less were the final three songs and they all were written like the same week. Wow. And that was like towards like the last one think less yeah that was on A side. That was

That's on the A side. Accidental A side. Yeah. But that was, originally there was a different song in its place that got cut. And I like, I don't, you know, I will get into the record itself later. But I like that C-U-A-Round isn't the closer. Yeah. But feels like a closer.

Yeah, it does. And then it's like, yeah, I'm just getting fuck. It's the icebreaker to the last rock and track. Yeah. Well, that was what, so I refer to him as track nines where it's like, I was trying to ride a track nine. And so Sway to and C-U-Rowns. Because originally it was going to be a 10-song record. but then it was like

well both these songs are was that a was 10 was that a request from a no no no you were just like I want more record was done before the deal was done right yeah yeah yeah oh yeah we recorded the LP before we were signed did you shop it around at all or was it just a thing we wanted Loma Vista like that was the thing

like Loma Vista it was tunnel vision on them the entire time like they almost got all roads initially too yeah it was the type of thing where I just felt like I I follow whatever, like, this is where Taylor and I are very different is. I am somewhat of a spiritual person and just following what feels like something like. Which spirit?

Something, no, no defined anything. Just vibes? But something enters. Well, it's called energy. Something enters the matrix, right? Like you hear someone's name. Yeah. And then you start hearing their name more and more.

You're like, I got to fucking meet this person. Amen. And then, and then I embraced the fact that I needed to meet this person and that we have something to provide. each other. Taylor being a prime example of that. Sure. Um, and so Loma Vista like entered my mind at a certain point and it just was like, that's, that's the, that's the slot. That's where we need to be. Like, uh, Audrey makes fun of me because during, like, I'm big on just like, obsessively trying to make things happen that I have no control over. So like manifesting basically. His girlfriend, Audrey. And I, uh, our twitching tongues fan. And I. And, and, and, and, and, and,

And I, uh, I, I, like, bought a Loma Vista tote bag from their web store just as like a manifestation, like, activity. I didn't tell anybody about it. He said just a silly little bit. Yeah. But it's because I hate being powerless. So I just do things that make me feel like I'm affecting some sort of outcome because I'm, I relaxed. And that's, that's exactly what ancient people did to create religion. And.

And I signed the label that I wanted to be on. And now everything's going well. So. Clock. Broke. ride twice a day. You're Jesus, your... But I really like that.

I do genuinely like that because I think what that does is it allows you to kind of like, not to sound super cliche, but to like go with a flow and be like, okay, where is this taking me? And what can we make out of this situation? Well, it makes it more easy to recognize when something isn't right. Like, so specifically Taylor and I's relationship started because RJC, my old band,

we did a lot of our records with Will Killing'sworth and Will Killing's worth is a guy that we always really looked up to and I love his recording and it was a type of thing where I think when you're in a band early on especially like your first experiences with like working with nationally known people you're like well this worked I'll never do anything Yeah, you know yeah I've never recorded with another person

So we were like You've never been allowed to I've never been allowed to So we were like you know We'll probably never record with anyone besides will. And then it ended up being like, Taylor kept getting brought into my world in some sort of way.

And we, I was sitting behind calling on a flight to this is hardcore. And I talked to Taylor and he's like saying all these nice things to us. And like, low-key put feelers out to Kinlan to be like, you should tell them they should record with me. I don't know if you. Did you order a pit recording studio topeck?

No, no, no, because this was not the type of thing. No. But it was like, all right, I live in L.A. now. I just had these additional songs because we were talking about doing the regional Jurdis Center, me and Justice. And I was like, well, I'm not flying to Western Mass to do two songs. So why don't I do it? Let's try out Taylor. And we just had a great time.

It was only me here. And then Justice came in for his vocal day. So this was your guy's first time working together? January 2020, yeah. Did you get a-year-for? Well, technically self-defense. base. That did not count. So that was the thing where you recorded with him playing

base with self-defense. So you were like, oh, this guy knows me. I played base on him. And then... No, no. I was like, this guy doesn't even remember who I am. That's not true. But to me... When we saw each other at Candy Cane-Lane, I remember who you were. I was like, Taylor, and you looked at me, and I was like,

that guy doesn't know who I am. I did. I did. I did. He didn't Shelton. He was literally a drive-by. I did say... He was like... Oh, wait. He was in Self-Fent. He did. I'm pretty sure I was there. You were there. You were there. You're right there. What's Candy Can Lane?

We've done this already on this podcast. Put in a clip right here of us talking about this on the previous article. Oh. That was you have to do. Wasn't that insane? That Candy Cany Lane Lane. I like that you never do that. I do it sometimes.

Candy Cany. And so, but Taylor literally texted me as I was writing RJC Riffs in Seattle, like visiting. And he's like, that's like, that's. session's going to be really hard to beat for me for the year, like, I really want to do your LP if you're down. And because he like asked and was proactive about it, I was like... That's a rare thing. I would say

I actively do not chase bands. Right. Yeah, yeah. How did you guys start texting? Who asked for who's number? That's a good question. I don't even know. Isn't that fun? I don't think that's provable. It would have been me DMing him on Instagram saying,

I have a session, can I ask you? Like, I have an idea. I probably just got your number. Yeah, yeah. And then that, or I probably asked Kinlan for the number or something. Oh, right. You didn't LP and moved in. Yeah. Yeah, what was that? What was the order of operations there?

Well, so one, I was, I was not allowed at the pit. We were going to cancel the recording sessions for crime and punishment because Taylor and Kyla were a little scared. I was scared of the, it was the beginning of it. Oh, dude. I didn't leave. I didn't see him for six months. I did push-ups for three straight months. I thought my parents were going to die.

Straight up. I thought this was it. I was just willing to die because I hated my lifestyle changing so much. Yeah, and so it ended up just being me for those recording sessions, and he was down to record it because it was just me. So then he was a week of me being here without anyone else. You know, it was just like, he was easy to get close. How much of that was just you performing? All me. I mean, Taylor played some guitar parts that I couldn't play because I'm not a great guitar player.

the man just the techie parts yeah he also would contribute contribute a part you know there's one part where I had like a one no part which is his least favorite thing on earth so he's like let me add this complication to it and then

no those would be him no those are me no there's a part like so he added there was that one little lick yeah and so yeah I don't know it was just us and I think it was easy to get close in that time especially pandemic like

you were my only friend Yeah, yeah. At the time we were the only people because you wouldn't come over. So that's when I replaced you. That's when I replaced you at that time was me. When let me and you know if you want me to cut this out of I will. Audrey moved in first, right? Audrey actually moved in. I never moved in. Well, the timeline was officially. My things never lived here.

The timeline was like at the same time whereas like they really started dating right when she moved in. When did Ian invite Spencer over for lunch without? That was over a year in. That was over a year. That was over a year. Maybe six months. No, it had to have been early. No, because our friend Spencer,

as seen on the show, Barry. And a good recent meme. Oh, great meme. Great meme. Yeah, I don't know. He wasn't lunch. It was dinner. They weren't home.

That's worse. That's, of course. What happened? So Ian, who doesn't live here, just has Spencer over for dinner. Okay, I would like to contribute to the fact that I do partially pay the bills here with how many records I do. Well, that's semantics. That's, that's the... I pay my taxes.

That's wrestling fans telling CN Punk they bought their house. Come on, man. I paid for years. I love that. He just had like a night dinner with you. It wasn't an actual thing. We went to salsa and beer. He had.

of dinner. But I thought it was funny. When he didn't live here. I get it. See, me having grown up with Taylor, know that that's very Taylor would be like, you just have him guys over for dinner? You don't live here. You're just, you're having guys for dinner at my house? But he would also, they would also be weird if I was like, well, I'm going to go do this over here. And they're like, why not here? And that's how you know he was. But that's more of a Kyla than you guys are all a little strange with your houses, though. You gave me the thing to your house. A total of 10 times. Come on over.

You don't want me. What are you going to do with? I think the heart of it is. Come over. It's a group of people who are all strange with intimacy. Dude. That's it. Very well put.

So this is a deeper dive than we thought it was going to be. And now Dr. Drew is about to come in. Drew Pinsky. Drew, come up. So. It's a family intervention. Not a podcast. Get in here.

Oh, no. Fuck. Was Life Under the God. Tracked here? guitars and vocals and auxiliary things we did drums and bass at Studio 606 the Foo Fighters

Dave Grohl's studio You can't come They're incredible practice space That is actually a world-class recording studio Is it like crazy? The ceiling is so high Tell about the console Yeah please The console is the console from

Such records as Nirvana Nevermind Fleetwood Mac's partial rumors And self-titled and Shitload of Neil Young records. What kind of board is it? Danzig? It's a Neve.

Eve. Yeah. Neve. I'm sorry, Neve, what's the number? Like a six or... No, it's a weird one. There's only two. Oh, okay.

Yeah. Will Yip has a Neve, and there's seven. Yeah. He's got some crazy... Doesn't Needham have the other? Needham doesn't have shit. He has fucking monitors. No, Needham has a Neve, but he doesn't use it.

Yeah. It ain't plugged in. Yeah, he... This is the one from... Sound City? From Sound City. This is a Sound City.

There's a documentary about it. Sound City now has another knave that wasn't in there when we recorded there. Super cool.

Yeah. No, what we had we recorded on a helios of which there were two ever of that board. Really? Yeah,

which have more sought after components. More sought after than the board from never mind. Well, harder to find

like Pete Town Townshend is like trying to get That's your boy. Trying to get one made for him. He had like his own. She is all over that. So wait, you're a who head?

I'm a huge who head. I was just DMing Pete about that Oasis. That Oasis video I told you about? You can't talk about DMing Pete, dude. They talk. You guys chat. We've only about gear. What about the towns?

Only about search project. I'm not going to bring that up, dude. I'm not going to get into that. He, I'm not going to talk. What's his stance on vaccination? Oh, no. It's way worse than that, buddy. He's very...

Abortion? No, no, no. He's very, very liberal. A little too liberal. Oh. But... Where was he in... The whole...

The... Like, four? He was alive. I don't even know if he was alive. No, but the whole... The story of a guitar going to Johnny Marr and then getting to Noel was, in fact, his guitar originally, that he smashed.

And that's why, in this pedal show interview, he's like, yeah, there's a different neck, blah, blah, blah. That's why. A little... So there is a guided by voices side project called the Townsend Research Project due to a certain controversy that he got in at one point where he said he was researching something incredibly bad. We'll go past it. If you read his, from there, if you've read his book, put in the comments, put it in the comments.

If you've read his book, which I have, he talks about some trauma he had been through in his life. Of course, I mean, those are things you can't go near. We're not going to go near him. In 60 to 75 minutes, I'm going to be Googling. Foraciously. We don't want to go somewhere so dark. Next topic? No, absolutely.

But that's very cool. The Neve stuff. That's like new to my world, but like my dad is like, oh, Neve. It's got like all the signatures on it. So like they're all on there. So that was those drums, right? We ended up doing bass because Vince is just too good at drums. Vince did.

So we recorded, we recorded 13 instrumentals in one day. two clicks that changed We had a full fully mapped songs So it'd be like And then the chorus pushes 2 BPM

Like we did all that Yeah He's absolutely He smoked 13 songs But that's because He's so good We had the ability

To like fuck with the songs Because he just a one taker Everything is one take Yeah and occasionally I'd be like I don't know At it We were building off of

So we did demos With this guy Phil Odom before we were with Taylor. We recorded the Absinthe Father record that I love. Yes, I played drums. You did? I played drums on three songs.

On bells, right? I played drums on bells. Oh, my God. The, uh, so, so yeah, Phil helped us with demos and was it was a real big help on, um, like, locking in a lot of, like, vocal ideas where I just wasn't good enough yet to actually sing what I wanted to, and he'd be like playing it on a keyboard. Like, here's what the note you're actually supposed to be doing. Any of these melodies that you can think of where it's like, oh, yeah, that was...

Well, like, Sway, too, he has a main songwriting credit on because I did the riffs and I just sent him the riffs, and he sent me back a piano melody of what is the vocal melody. That's cool. So he has a straight-up writing credit on that. See you around. See you around is him on the keys and me on vocals. So, like, him and I are the only people performing the song. We did get a half day at 6606 later.

Yeah, yeah, we did keys with him there. We used roads. Nice. We used the, what else? We used the Rhodes, the organ, which it wasn't a Hammond B3, which I wanted it to be. It was the other one. And then a grand piano. They lied to you.

Well, we knew they didn't have. They did say they had a Hammond B3 and then it was something else. It was on tour, though. It was on. Yeah, yeah. They had a Melodron. We had one. We didn't say we had.

Because when we did bass, they were like, all the SVTs are out. Like, how do you have? They were like, five or six. And the food fighters had a five or six. Sv T's something. Yeah. So they have like a crazy warehouse. Oh my God.

The back room is hundreds of guitars. Did you lose your mind? It's incredible. We used allegedly, oh, maybe I shouldn't say. Hey, I don't know.

I've been incredibly losing. Okay. All right. Well, all right. Here's breaking news. I'm trying to get it to get back to him that we've done all this. We recorded some dead body songs there and we used Dave's favorite JMP. Fuck, yeah.

What year is it? Do you know? Probably an 87. A july. It's a master volume. Oh, okay. Not the four. Yeah.

Yeah. Sixty-three. I used his, I recorded his 12th string. We did do that. You did that? You did what? Yeah, I recorded the 12th string first. You rip a good?

No, no, I'm not good. He's editable. What's the best song you can, what's the hardest song you can play? Not anyone else's. I don't know anyone else's the songs. Taylor, what's the hardest song you could play? What's the most challenging guitar riff you can play? I don't know.

Dead body songs. Yeah, Dead Body's fucked up. That's just crazy. When he sent it to me in the first. first time i was just like i this is nuts yeah this is just i think there was one friend i showed who was like oh so you're showing off and i was like uh i just playing guitar that wasn't brodie king

no it wasn't he didn't respond until months later yeah i don't like dead bodies yeah but then he was like hey can i put this on tv every week so he's the reason our six and a half minute song is our like second highest played Yeah, he's responsible for 6,000 of our 7,000. I literally saw that song played one and a half times because they went to commercial break during their intro. So I was just like, oh, there it is again. So Ian, Shelton.

When you guys first work together, I'm sure there was a moment where you realized, damn, there's a lot of things we don't agree on about music. Oh, yeah. That's part of it, though. That's what I'm saying. Is that beneficial to your working relationship? It is because, like specifically Life Under the Gun, right? A record where as I showed him songs, he actively would dislike them as I was making the demo. I've seen that.

And so for me to work with somebody who might be willing to dislike the song we're working on, I have to be incredibly confident of what's within that song. And eventually Taylor comes around, I think partially due to my confidence, partially because he just doesn't have the same source material as I'm working off for these things. There's two ways to look at it. If I don't like it, it could be a hit because I hate pop music. Two, if I don't like it, it could give you the doubt to look into it. Yeah, yeah, which is the case very high.

It is famously, I've been talking about a lot in interviews. We recorded that for All Roadsley to the Gun, and it sucked. We recorded it was, the tempo was too fast. The pieces were not, they were like so close to exactly the same pieces as we have now. It made blink one of two sound like Metallica. But they were just different enough that all the nuance that's there now was gone. You know, like, and now it is like, do it faster, very high is, to me, like an all-time one-two. It's a rock-law.

Thank you. I mean, I, so that was also written originally by our guitar player, Will, like the riffs. It was his first song he's ever written. In his life? Yeah. Fucking asshole. Yeah. So, well, that's interesting, though.

It had a terrible, he had a terrible pop- He had an offensive lead on it. On very high. Which is why I felt all the ways that I did. And then as soon as the lead got axed, I was like, oh, there is a song. It's a rock in there. So that's what I want to ask you, Taylor, is this is, I would say, pretty well out of your wheelhouse of what you normally do. Well, he's created me a new wheelhouse.

So we're building a new wheelhouse. So we're building a. you have. But before the creation of said Wheelhouse. I'd done a few indie records, but so that's what I'm I think that was like. Self defense family who I came here with to work with him. That's about as indie as you could

get. So that's what I'm trying to ask is what were the other things that made you think like, you know what? I can I can do this. Self defense was was the one where it was like, because I like really you know, vintage productions without even

really liking a lot of the kind of stuff. The music. But like there's yeah, but there's aspects of like classic recordings that I just really appreciate and I lean towards even aggressive music that sounds a little more natural. And so it's like okay this music

kind of I wanted to sound the way I like things to sound already. So it's like these are the things that should sound the way I like. Whereas I'm trying to make metal bands sound like fucking laughing hyenas and it doesn't always work. And with that, his

entry point to this was all roads y to the gun and like the original like direction of the band was more closer to hard rock you know he was very influenced by the Jesus lizard and it was very influenced garage rock and and his thing was about trying to make us be laughing hyenas

that's what he wanted on all roadsy to the gun I was inspired we literally got into arguments during that session because I was like I want to record my vocals less harsh right and he would literally did not let me wow well were you dope yet or what?

I wasn't dope, but I wanted more... So it's an interesting thing because I think it is what people like about that record, but at the same time, it does create somewhat of a chasm between the two releases of... You had to grow. And the growth would have been there regardless, but I... And I sang like that live, how all roos is a gun. I did sing like that live. I was singing that harsh, so it is a different thing, but...

I was right. And also, yeah, I will say, how did the M.G... Day one loyalists respond to you inserting much more melody and we we so it's so It's so complicated for us because the day one versus day two is only nine months Yeah the the the complicated thing is that again we we had this record written Yeah two set like our first tour Which our first show we played two shows before our first tour so our first tour we were listening to the sound cloud of our first tour of our first show we were listening to the sound cloud of our first show

all of these songs, the entire tour. Right. Preparing to record the record in a month after the tour ended. So for us, we were that band already. So it was about leaving a breadcrum trail. This is a sound and very familiar. For people to follow, that's why we did Pressure Coker. That's why we released Let Me Be Normal.

It was about having. Nobody thought twice about pressure cooking. Dude. Nobody. Nobody. And God, what a track. Interesting. And I wrote Jack Shit on that song. Like that's James from Daisy that wrote that song And then I did some additional talking parts And I did the Ooo on the song

But those are his melodies, that's him And he literally wrote that being like I kind of wrote this for your voice Because I think your voice can do this Oh, that's fun. That's very Laurel Canyon in the 70s But he also, he is also hearing the demos That we were making You know, like he was up on all that

So Yeah Whose idea was the Ooo in Do It Faster Oh, that's always, I mean, me, yeah. That was the first song, no, Return Pause. You was the first song I recorded with Phil Odom and Do It Faster was the second, and Ain't No Flowers was not out yet. So I did the ooh-oo on the track and I had to be like, so there's this thing I've done on a different song. I'm going to do it on this song and I don't know, might sound weird, but I do it.

Cool. I like it. It's an aggressive. How it's your thing. Yeah, apparently. I view it as just a complete. completely traditional thing of like traditional of the genre of hardcore and metal

is just like the act I just call it accent yelling where it all do it yeah there's a couple I mean there's some great U-Us in the history of music yeah I mean here's some trapped on the right it spans genres I mean it's even like hip hop has improvisation and sure yeah yeah but specifically uh-u yeah

it's uh-u-u-u-too belongs to him oh I mean I don't I'm certainly leaning into it but I don't think I belong I don't I don't think it belongs to it World War 5 has got a real good one. There's a call. Yeah. But ooh is just, it's just a hardcore.

That's just a hardcore. That belongs to hardcore. Celtic Frost and then hardcore. And Van Halen. Oh. Should we trace it back? Doesn't Jump have a? What is it?

Hot for Teacher. Ooh. There's like a, and he else, dude, my favorite, this is a funny thing to talk about. But my favorite, like, like, call out part is in hot for teacher. the solo starts and he goes, uh-oh. So like, you guys are fucked after this one.

Yeah, I'd be mosham for sure. So let's get into the, the anatomy of this album. Taylor, do you have a favorite song from this record? I'm excited to hear this. Honestly, it's one and 12th. Oh.

Those are my two faves. A brilliant move putting title track last. That is the M.G thing. People... Oh, yeah, it's on the same one. Yeah. So, well, it ended up not being because of the deluxe EP thing.

But yeah, my goal is either title track is either going to be the opener. Like I have the next album title planned, and it's either going to be, I feel like this one could be the opener and not the closer, because I think of the song, I know the song I'm trying to make. And I'm like, that's an opener. But Life Front of the Gun was a song that I knew was a closer, and All Roads Lead of the Closer of the All Roads Lead to the Gun LP. Gotcha.

You don't have the next record written? Just gets me. There's a lot of song. The 12 string. Fuck. The 12 string? On life on it again. Yeah, that's good shit.

Fooks me up. The who part? Oh, dude, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, on the rough mixes, the 12 strings are like, what about this? What kind of the 12 string was it?

Was it like a Rickenbocker or anything sick? I don't remember. It was a Taylor, I think. Oh, is it a Cousie? Yeah, is a 12th ring. We play, we, we, there's an electric six or electric. There's an electric 12 on some parts. Yeah, yeah.

Well, Nick owns the, like, the, like, the, hockey stick looking, like the incredibly expensive fender 12 string. And then we use the other Dave Groles one. Oh, like the Explorer kind. It was an electric. I think, no, it's a, it's a, I don't know what the phone. Electric sticks is that, I don't know, whatever, we're in the 12 string guitar. There's a 12 string electric.

Nick, Nick owns an incredibly expensive one. That's all I know. We're doing a deep dive on the record. I love gear talk when people know what gear they're talking about. Yeah, I definitely don't remember. I'm trying to move on from it, but now we're stuck on it. So this 12th string. So one in 12.

No, but seriously, what is Candy Caneland? Oh, Jesus. It's July. Call me in this. You're going to have to come December this year. Come on back. I'm going to. Hard Lord goes to Candy Cany Lane.

Let's do it. Do you have a favorite song for the record? Yeah. It's way too. That's just to me like doing something more than the other songs. and like conceptually and lyrically I'm very proud of it.

Your favorite song is the art song. Yeah, the art song, yeah. But that's not like the direction of the band. It's a very pop-centric band, but that's the song where it was very much like, here's our space to do something more. And, you know, like, it doesn't have to be indicative of the rest of the record.

It just is its song, it doesn't not fit with the rest, but it's also more than the rest. Right. And it's creative elements. And do you feel there's a risk at it being track 10 on the album? No, I mean, nobody listens. With the whole.

Nobody fucking listens that late. That's it. I mean, as someone who obsessively looks at Spotify for artists, I know what's going on. It's crazy. But at the same time, All Rosie to the Gun,

one of our least listened to songs of all time, one of our best live tracks. How could that happen? Every single person who knows it fucking loves it. Is that because they listen to the vinyl? So they go crazy for that song. Because they're like, All Rosie the Gun.

The song. people sing louder to that song than most other songs it's so bizarre how could that be so Spotify doesn't matter no it does it does well do it faster get I'm saying the people who sing along sing louder because that's their track but obviously do it faster it's a bigger reaction yeah it already passed a million I saw that yeah a million the music video is sick too thank you I like the very high video too Mason Mercer directed that one I can't take credit for that one that's fine you directed do it faster I directed do it faster, yeah. He directed all but very high.

Pressure cooker. Audrey directed pressure cooker. That's cool. The man does it all. Oh, he really do. He's got a couple. Very high video. Big ones is very, like, horny,

horny college movie vibes. Yeah. It's meant to be... Me and my sexy friends are at the park. Deal with it. It's like meant to be... Which is, like, ties in with the artwork and everything, but it's like meant to be like a situation that just one person doesn't fit into.

So, like, I don't fit into those scenes. I'm like... You're as handsome as anything. But I'm saying, like, I'm, like, cutting through the scenes. I'm interrupting scenes. I'm, like, the non-idealistic version. Like, you're Jason Biggs in the scenario.

Yeah. I'm actually walking because I just came in my pants. Got to get out of there. Yeah. And then you take off your glasses and, oh, my God. He's sexy, too. There it is. Good for you, man.

Let's go through this record, anatomy-wise. Do it faster. I heard immediately. You knew. I do that. We got one of our biggest clips on freaking TikTok is you singing it. Call him the shot. Because I knew.

I heard it immediately and I was like, A, that's track one. B, that's single one. C goes hard. It almost wasn't single one. It almost wasn't single one. I felt, so as like a record head, like as a person who overthinks things, I was like, I want release day to happen. And then this massive song that nobody's heard yet,

just to punch you in the face right off the top. Track one's a freebie. It's a free. That's a single no matter what. It's not anymore because people don't listen to albums. But I think it still is. I think track one still gets there.

I still, I think track one was, but anything else. If the single is enough to grab you. Yeah, yeah. And I think Do It Faster was the one where it's like, okay, this is so good that I have to listen to this record.

Ultimately, Do It Faster was the right to do. Because my thought was, like, with the EASTR was, like, with the EASTor was, egomaniac part of my brain was like, I want people to hear it and be like, that should have been a single. And then I was like,

well, if my goal is for people to say that should have been a single, why wouldn't I make it a single? Yeah, yeah. That seems stupid and short-sighted. We've lived with single regret for... Yeah, but it worked.

True? Took a year. Took a year, but it worked. It didn't, it doesn't need to take a year. It took a year. It took a year for some. It already passed a million, brother.

Took a year for some. Isn't that? Well, yeah, exactly. There's a lot of outside elements. A million. Emilia this fast to me, like Loma Vista isn't, is a major

label in all ways, you know? It is, but it's not. It's an independent major label. Like they have the resources of. Exactly. The resources and the distribution of a major label. But it's not it's not like, oh, they're on fucking universal. That's the coolest part about Loma Vista

is that it's a, they're pushing them in the shadows. Nobody knows the name. Nobody gives a fuck about it. But they just see this band exploding. and it's because they're working. Well, it's also because they're art forward. They actually care about the creative of everything. Like, I pitched music videos, and they're like,

I feel like it could, like, mean more. You know, like, that's where they're coming from. That's cool. Is they want it to actually mean something in regards to the album. You know, they're like, no, we don't want a performance video. So they give a shit. Yeah, they give a shit. That's why, and that's why that's the cosmic pull of it.

I was like, this makes sense. This is the thing that had to happen. Yeah. What a, just a back-jew. check. What was the first single for in Love There's a Law, the title track? In Love There's a Law. Yeah. Carry on. Swinging a miss. Insane decision. The video.

That's the video. I remember the video, yeah. The video's pretty cool. I like the video. The Preacher Man video needs to come back up. Can we cut to a clip? No. Preacherman's a Yeah. Gone, gone? It's private. Okay. Somebody, I've said this before, I think, but somebody pointed out that it seems like I'm saying I want to fuck our mom in the video. Oh.

And then I watched it again and was like, this can never be seen again. Can I get the unlisted link so I could watch it with that lens? 100% no. Whoa. Once you, if you legally change your last name? To this episode. I don't care. If you legally change your last name to Young, you can have the link.

I'm the only Shelton. So I would actually like to be a part of a family. Is your brother not a Shelton? No. Holesto. It's a hard name, dude. Yeah, they're all H-E-L-E-S-D-S-S. What's the hard as fuck?

He's about to release some music. God damn right. is. Vatican Boss. Shout out. Look out for the new EP. Can we talk about R.J.C. A little bit? A little bit. Is that private?

It's not private. I mean, I mentioned that we did a new album. He did. The inspiration of the band was... Yeah, it's my brother. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think at this point I'm waiting to be able to do interviews with him. Okay. Because I want him to be able to speak on... He's never been able to talk about.

Everything that he's been through. I wish he was here. And the way that they're... But we'll do that when the... when the RJC record comes out. And, yeah, because the big thing, I mean, there's always been, like, somewhat of a guilt for me of, like, I've benefited a lot off of his story, you know? And so it's, like, now about doing a record and having it point back to him and having it point to his music and everything he's trying to achieve and him having the same effect that I've had off of RJC. But he's going to have a big footprint on the new record.

Yeah, massive. It's a good brother. Two good brothers. there's a good brother. What do I get? You know? Get to record all that. You've gotten some free recordings for sure.

You waste my time more than anybody does. No, that's not true. Anyway, very high. Track two. I will say when I heard this, I was like, that's track two. Yeah. This track two sounds like track two. Yeah, 100%.

Yeah, I mean, this was one that the self-consciousness before Taylor, before Taylor, self-consciousness. I was right. You were just like, does this song suck? No, I thought it would define me, define my life. Oh, shit. I was like, this is our creep from the moment. From the moment we wrote it, I was like, this is our creep.

It is currently, and let me tell you, do it faster, has a million on Spotify. Yeah, but very high is top. Yeah. And from the month, we wrote, we wrote this song June 2020. Wow. And held on to it since then. Were you high as fuck when you wrote it? No, sober.

I'm a day sober. I don't create so. I don't create high, nothing. It's, it's, uh, As someone who loves... It would be cooler if you did. Alcohol, I don't create anything on them. Those are escape.

Like, that's me shutting my brain down. Would you do, like, an experimental thing? I did, I did mushrooms and went to the space, and then I got a bad phone... I went to the practice space, and I had a really bad phone call that for some reason I answered, and then that resulted in, I'll pick up the phone when you're on drugs. Which is a great song. So he did write a great song on. drugs. No, no, no, no, no, no. That was the result of trying to write a song. So what you're saying is you should probably do it again.

No. Don't. No, because I left. I did not write any songs. But you wrote a great song about that moment. Yeah. So pick up the phone while you're on drugs. Yeah. And then talk, talk, tell the world about it. Yeah, I was just on mushrooms and I answered like a tax phone call. And I was like, well, I'm ruined. So you got high as fuck, very high. Did you say tax? Yeah. All right, sorry. Very high is your magnum opus to you. Is that, No, no, it's not, but I just felt like it,

I felt like you would have such a big imprint on us. And I knew it would change the trajectory and the vibe. And, because even then, like, don't pick up the phone had not been written yet. So the drug aspect of the band was not like a thing yet. Like, it was a thing I'd never, I'd never, I'd never sung about drugs. This is like, if Jerry Garcia heard the song, he'd be like, brother. Yeah. Me too.

You've got something. But, yeah. And I think the great part of the song was that there was almost no pressure to it because, so it was Will's first song ever wrote. I knew that, like, it was not all there from what he originally sent me. And then it was about me trying to make it like a different song from what he originally sent. I just went into it and I was like, my friend wrote a song. I'm going to record vocals on it no matter what to encourage him. So for me, I didn't think I was making a military gun song.

I thought we were just having fun. You're like, I'm humoring this. Yeah, yeah. I'm just... This amateur. Yeah, yeah. I'm just... Yeah, we'll see it through, and then we'll get it better next time, you know?

Like, and then as soon as I laid the hook down, I was like... God damn it. What's happening? You know, like, this is fucked up. And we literally, we left the space that day going, like, I feel like we kind of wrote a hit. And, like, I feel like it's bigger than any other song we've written. And I don't understand what that will do to our band. because it's a better

better song than anything we have and then Taylor's like that song fucking sucks and you were like all right I got to pull up the rough mix because that twinkly at least okay no you don't have to pull up the rough mix me all okay that option no no no no exclusive okay so check us out there is in my old computer

there is us placing a bet on very high and I have to go in and I'm pretty sure it's that Taylor owes me a car a car A car? He said he was comfortable over betting because he said there's no way that song will ever be good.

But the tempo, it was like this. No, no, no, no. He said, there's no way that song will ever be good. Well, there's got to be some technicalities here. But no way. Because it's a different song. It's not a different song.

Same hook. Also, there were no vocals that I ever heard. Yeah, but you said no way? I think there's some ways because it happens. I started singing on you said, just stop. I think we're going to need to review the footage here. Probably. I need to go. I just need to boot up my own computer

because the eye message has it. Luckily that was truly Taylor saying there's no way and then there were some ways and now the song rocks. There were some ways it was the lead that was. He said there's no way that song. I got to pull it up because no way is a blank check. No way is a blank check. It's true.

One time we made a bet with Taylor that Hugh Jackman would never be in an action movie again. That's what he said. It's true. I lost that bet. Logan dies. He says Hugh Jackman will never make an action movie again. He's Wolverine again. Yeah. Do you have to wait until Deadpoles out to get the check or what?

He didn't, really, until he came back to Wolverine. He hasn't in a while. He wanted to be. He wanted to sing, man. He wanted to do Broadway. Wasn't he made a brief cameo in one of them? No. After Logan?

No. He has not done an actual movie. Now he's in the yellow show. Where it was Days of Future Past? That was way. That was before Logan. No, yeah, Logan was the actual last thing. But he was in some, like, garbage spy movie that he had an action scene in, so I lost on...

He lost. So would you pay him? He paid out. He paid. He paid. He paid. But it wasn't a car. I'm pretty sure our bet was big because he literally was so confident.

I can't wait to go to the junkyard and buy you a fucking... I was pushing him. $50 car. I was pushing him because I was like... You have a voice recording of the... No, not a voice recording. I have a text message from him. That is the bet.

He's not going to... You can buy him like a hot wheel. in my old computer because I've never erased the eye message off that computer. I would love for you to find it, but... I'm waiting for further proof. When very high hits... It's not the same song.

When very high hits one million in like a month and a half. Oh, dude, not you. It's at $6,000. I will say, dude, it's getting like 13,000 streams a day or something like that. Does it feel good that the whole top five is new album? Oh, yeah.

It's the best. That does not happen. It's smoking them. so by a million miles. Now, is that affecting your live set? How different does it have to be? Well, so we've been slow playing it. We're slowly adding.

So, like, the European tour, we started the tour the day before the record came out. We're not playing festivals on new songs nobody knows. Dude, on Apple Music, all 10 are their top song. All 10 is new record. We know what we're doing. Yeah, well, Apple Music's got about 186 guys. Yeah, but still.

What I'm saying is if Spotify showed 10 It might boost you even more That's fucking I know the metrics It's all the time But that's because it's released It's like it just passed 28 days from release So those could change But as of right now

It's smoking old material by double at least That's the best case scenario I don't know where we're at before that But Logan Taylor buying you a car It's gonna be so much That's what I'm going for You can write it off

It's gonna be no you don't get to choose the car I'm going to the junkyard and I'm going to give you. There was a lot of caveats on my end. It could be an R-C car. There's no way that all these details were looked at. I need to see this thing. When it crosses a million, I'm posting the screenshots. Oh, my God.

That's great. You're getting a, you're getting a geometro. It'll be better than what I have right now because I don't have a car. When I first met Andrew Morrissey, that was his car. I believe it. Yeah. He's a geometro. I'm going to give you a geometro that has no wheels and park it in your driveway.

and it's going to be the worst day of your life. So tell me about Will Logic, track three. We're going to do each song. Yeah, I'm going through. We're doing the anatomy. Will Logic, this one's annoying to me because people keep comparing it to Interpol, which I don't listen to.

Isn't that weird? We got Red Fang for about 10 years. It was like, Twitching Tongues for fans of Red Fang. Really? I couldn't fucking tell you what that is. I wonder if D.D. likes Red Fang. Hey, for sure. Maybe.

So yeah, this one's So there is an Interpol song that Is similar and I understand the reference point But then people are so shallow that they go like The entire song sounds like that And I'm like there's literally a five second part That I can hear the reference And the rest of the song is not similar in any way

But people are The reference wasn't that at any point Yeah And at a certain point, because during the demoing, people kept referencing that to me, we did things to minimize. So, like, the intro is mono instead of panned guitars because on their version, I went and listened to it before the record was released. And I didn't want to change the creative because it had no, played no part. Right. It played no part in the creation of the song.

So I'm not going to change what I do in relation to it. Yeah, yeah. So we changed the mix to be like, the guitars are mono. and, you know, like, but yeah, I don't know. That's my favorite song to sing. It's my favorite song to sing. How do you feel about doing things like mono guitars for a minute? I feel like you didn't have to do that.

Yeah, yeah, the record was mixed by Mark Niedom. But he didn't hate it because what was cool was that... I was trying to get the beginning to explode. Yeah, and it explodes because then it goes wide. Right. So it starts mono, and then it goes wide. Then the guitars go wide. That's my favorite song to sing just because I feel like the melody is just really fun.

I feel like the chorus is like the most in the Kirk Cobain bag, and I can kind of send it in a similar way, and it's really fun. Pardon this interruption. We have got to take a break to tell you about some important stuff. What do we got? First of all, the pit recording studio where this very episode you are watching is being recorded, is shutting down. This is the very last and first hard lore episode shot in the pit.

Wow. My brother, Taylor, as some of you may know, by now is being kicked out of the house and studio that they've been renting for 17 years. More than anything, I think we just want to thank people for coming together to help them. And I want to thank Bo for putting that whole thing together. Yeah, I mean, hey, it's a group effort. Everybody's helping out. And, you know, it's one of those things that it just goes to show that this thing that we're in is more than just music and more than just merch and clothes.

and whatever. It's a community, and the community often comes through when it needs to. I know he appreciates it. I know I appreciate it on his behalf. So thank you, Bo. Thank you to the listeners and viewers and anybody in the world who has helped out.

All of the band, a ton of bands that have recorded there have made some very cool shirts that will be available tomorrow. So check those out. We're going to be doing a whatnot stream that is just to benefit the pit. So we stay tuned with us.

We're going to give you a date. What not is the best place to buy and sell new and use hardcore memorabilia. And they have been gracious enough to cut their fee for this one whenever we do it so that every cent made goes to the pit. Straight to the pit. And it's great. It's like a live podcast episode where you can chat and interact with other people with us. It's all in the moment.

It's not recorded. It's just live. And if you miss it, you miss it. So click the link in the description to get $15 off your first purchase that will go towards 100% towards the pit. Whenever we do that, stay tuned for the date very soon. Yeah, make sure you follow us on social media, join the Discord, which is in the description underneath the video. Best way to stay up to date with what we got going on. All that good stuff.

And we've also got to talk to you about AG1. Oh, you know, I haven't taken mine. Today? I haven't taken it yet. Me neither. I'm feeling a little slow. luggage. I think you're right. That's why. Yeah, I think so. AG1 is a daily, easy, one scoop, green supplement with all the good stuff you've been missing. You wonder, why does my body feel

like absolute butt? It's because it's missing AG1. That's it. That's all it is. I notice when I don't take it, and that's why I continue taking it. I feel great. I don't get sick. I don't get sick more. I haven't been sick in a minute. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm just saying. It improves your life. We got a bunch of traveling coming up. I got a bunch of packets ready to rock. Well, they could have the packets too. That's, you're so right. Athletic greens.com slash hardlaw, you get five free travel packs and a year supply of vitamin D. Don't mess it up, man. Don't do it. Don't miss this. Give it, give it a shot. Try it out. That's right. It's also Manscape Time. is it ever, almost more than ever.

100%. Listen, guys, summer's over, okay? Yeah. Summer is manscape season, but I think it's important that you go into fall and winter and keep manscape. You have to escape your man.

You get, you slack, and then before you know it, the lawn is unscapable. Uniscapable. And we just can't have that. But it's not, just, you know, for trimming pubs. No, no.

There's much. They got all these other products, Bo, that we use every day. Every single day. As a matter of fact, I would say it's almost least about trimming pubs. Yeah, yeah.

It's about trimming nose, ears, beards, stanks, everything. Yeah. Trim all that. It is an all in one stank removal. Realistically. Any odor you can produce in your body can be removed

with a manscape product. It's 1,000% correct. And what are they, get if they use code hardlore. This is maybe the most impressive part is that you get 20% off and free shipping. Oh. 20% off and free shipping is basically all I need to hear to buy anything. Anything. And this is something.

I'm happy to give it to you guys. This is something you'll actually use every day and it's the best. Absolutely. Please enjoy this episode. Thank you all again for supporting the pit, for supporting my brother. He's the best guy around. and I wouldn't be here without him I wouldn't make music without him

the day he retires is the day I retire I never tell him this to his face enjoy the episode is it these first three that are getting over live like crazy those are the ones we're playing so like we play that we play my friends right we play the first five songs so side a

we play side a almost minus one and then so far besides big disappointment nothing else live but you don't play never vote to Not yet. That song is a bitch to sing. That song. Do you warm up? Do you do vocal shit?

Well, I've gone through like vocal problems recently. So I got to go. You've had this. This is a new thing. I had to go. Well, no, this was from. You just played. Played shows.

And then I stayed out with MSPaint until 6 a.m. So last night? No, like two nights ago. You haven't, I've been with you many times in the past two years. Yeah. You've never not sounded like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've never heard you with a normal.

voice. It's because I'm always singing. You always be singing, man. I'm never not singing. You can't stop. You can't stop him from singing. I'm going to, I have a session tomorrow. I'm a session the next day and then I got to go play a show in New York on Sunday. Do you sound, do you think, do you like the way you sound more when you're a little bit fried? I think it sounds cool. I don't know. Am I talking voice? I don't really care about. I literally only care about like, as long as I can still sing. It's all I care about. Vocal coaches have told me I talk like shit. Like I have the wrong. I speak of my throat instead of the front of my face.

Yeah, my mic's going to be fucked because you talk. alone. Yeah. You speak with your throat and not... Yeah, so like, that's why my voice is so deep is that I'm speaking in my throat. But you're supposed to speak up here with the front of your face. Oh, look at that. He takes all the base out. Royalty. Yeah. Prince Ian. Posh. Yeah. It's a little too posh for me. How do you do that? How do you... I didn't know there was an option of how to talk. Hello? Hello? Hello? You're supposed to speak with like your lips only. Hello. Hello. No, I don't like it. You're on to something. With the throat thing.

Your mother literally would be, I went to, I went to, I went to, I went to, I went to, to do a vocal lesson with your mother.

Oh. And she literally goes, stop. Stop talking. She did? Yeah. And the same thing happened, I went to this

freaking super Hollywood Ariana Grande's vocal coach. I started talking. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. That's like literally, it's like, you're being destructive right now. You are destroying your instrument.

Stop talking. So, I mean, could you have any tips for me? Yeah, after this, I got a vocal exercise I can send you. Please. You're supposed to do it in the morning before you start speaking. What? Yeah.

That's a place is your voice. You fuck with Jacob. Shout out, Missy from Man, I can pussy. You just sent me that. You fuck with Jacob's vocal academy? Jacob's, I did. And now I'm on an app called seven minutes sing. Dude, there's, I'm trying to think of you waking up without going, come out, chilly.

It's like, impossible. There's no way you're doing that. I'd be attacked by both of them for seeing Before you talk I've yet to do it Oh missy sent it to me on Saturday Because if I if I wake it straight up That's that's not he's not kidding it's come

Oh Come on Go get him That's what I hear in the morning when I sleep over this Go get him chilly Come on It's so destructive I would do the same thing

If I had chili Yeah oh dude So I did I did 10 days of Complete vocal silence What It was the funniest week Do you have any of the things? I might have the app and my phone's inside.

He didn't talk for 10 days. I didn't talk for 10 days. My voice went out too many times in a row and I was legit scared that I ruined my life. Yeah. And he was typing things and pushing play. Yeah. It was so funny.

It goes like this. Like the one we had, they came over to the house. The energy in the room is telling me. It's crazyer than that. They came over the house one day and we had soup. That's how you know how domestic The Taylor and Ian situation is He comes over where we have soup

It's intimate soup Maybe the funniest food Intimate soup And his voice is broken We had soup Yeah okay So we Yeah we had soup and the soup was very hot

So I had made the I made the thing say And I had it set to all these strange settings And it goes This soup is taha The soup is too hot And it just sounded like It was weird

It was very weird It like gives you uncanny valley Hearing the voice I feel like you're Colin Farrell And you're Brandon Gleason in this area That adds up Yeah That is it huh

Yeah Dang I never thought Here Hughby Come here Qby One day You better watch out He's gonna not want to be your friend He's gonna cut up

Just don't want to be friends Much anymore Just don't like you no more But yeah So I do a lot of vocal stuff now to Well Seven minutes sing I think

Check this out. I stop. The set saved you more than anything, though. The set changing. Well, I just learned to sing differently. I'm sure if that's learned at some point you had to do as well. A strategic set. Well, it also just happens.

Yeah. Without you learn. You get invincible. Do you have in ears or do you just? No, I'm trying to go to any ears. Because that, like, we played. We just got them. We just played a show.

Like, so we did a European tour. So the monitors were incredible the entire time. Because they have really put money into their sound gear. Side fills are cool. And then we played our first state side show since the LP and I fucking blew my voice. And it's because the monitor's all blown out, can't hear any nuance in my voice. It just was rough. Those monitors are.

We're trying to do it for our fall tour. I really hate the look of it. But I, um, you can you need it. You need it. Oh, I mean, look, I understand. Everybody anticipates that, though, you know? And I understand the look of a thing. And like, I hate the look of like a wireless guitar pack.

but it serves a practicality Yeah but amni think about the most Famous singer in the world Yeah They weren't They're playing the ugliest shit Well I think about Tom Yorkies and like Like that's one of the coolest guys

They look cool They look cool You could put a fucking Well pop punk guys ruined it True yeah true Like so much of the way I define my life And have like since I was a small child Is like you what are pop punk guys doing

And how do I not do that Whatever that is I don't want I think that's kind of ultimately why your relationship works. Yeah, we... That's the one thing we despise together. Yeah. But there's nothing uncool about, like, wanting to hear yourself and not blowing out your voice. So I would the most humiliating thing is having your, well, one, people show up and pay money to see you and then you can't deliver.

That's humiliating. I'll say I've delivered, I've delivered more times than I've delivered. Dude, it's so humiliating. No, you're so hard on yourself. No, he's been there. Yeah, it's... Yeah, but I don't... It never bothered me as much as it bothered you.

It's... Well, when you... It's a signal... I can't not hear the correct thing in my head. Yeah, but you're doing something that no one in the room, like 99% of them can't do. Well, if you're in Europe, they'll tell you, you did a pretty bad job tonight.

Yeah, I think you should do better next time you come here. That's because they're all... Did you have any of those experience on the store you just did? No. Really? No, it was good to you? Well, I didn't talk to many, but yeah. Nice.

It was good. Yeah, so you... I was hanging out. I'm just just... sidetrack a little bit, just a little bit. I was hanging out at the FedEx Kinkos. Oh. And went to like Walgreens did some stuff yesterday. And this town is fucking, you're not from here, right? Yeah, I'm not from here. This town is full of people in Edgar suits. And then Rosenbaum,

the other guy who Edgar kills. It's one of the other. It's a rich person who doesn't know they're on planet Earth or the grimyest person you've ever seen trying to print a single flyer and losing their minds. I think that's the whole country. No. It's a huge. Everybody's doing a bit. Dude, it is so fried, especially I'm staying in Hollywood. It's insane. Oh, Hollywood is right. That's where Will lives.

Will lives in the heart of Hollywood, and it's just going over to his house is crazy. Come to my FedEx office. It's wonderful. When you were here and, like, spending a lot of time here, did you find that? That people are strange? Okay. So, have you seen Boas Afraid? I haven't yet.

Nope. So you know the neighbor, the neighborhood that he lives in? Like, like, he doesn't. Oh, I'm very familiar. But it's in the trailer. It's fucking crazy. That is what my block was. Just being chased into the store by.

Straight up. Yeah. Like it was... You had an event every night. Yeah, yeah. It was like always some shit happening. Like, and... Because it was like right where the bus line lets out.

Ian was afraid? Yeah. I lived one block from MacArthur Park, which is like one of the most notorious drug parks in Los Angeles. And like, I literally think that I'm like, I think Ari Aster stayed within a block. of my old apartment and that's what he based this section of the movie on, you know? Like... Dude, I mean... So yeah, I definitely was like, it's

it gets straight. But also, I'm also like, there's no way in a city like this for this not to happen. Yeah. The park in the course, that's it. You don't judge it. It's too many people who have, like, do not have their needs met that are just failed by society. Yeah, yeah, I don't think you're judging. I'm talking about

people who are... They're like, Hey, my dog is in the Mercedes outside with the air conditioning on. I need this printed now or I'm gonna fucking lose it. I don't encounter that. I don't encounter many rich people, really honestly. Yeah, it was the opposite of that. Unreal.

My friends are having a hard time. I love this song. This is one of my favorites. This is a, when I heard this one, I was like, that's track four for sure. So this is one that, like,

was kind of boring until James from Daisy put the harmonies on the chorus and just, like, lifted it. Beautiful harmony in there. I mean, if you hear just his harmonies, it's great. It's like the Beach Boys. But we buried it because we knew

that we, can't actually do that live as of right now. But you... You're gonna do. We do a two-part harmony, but I think that one might be... That one's a four. It's a queen. Why don't you get the voice live pedal?

It sounds too faky. We have it. Waylon broke it before the tour. Well, you can turn it down. That's the thing is you turn it down enough. Yeah. It doesn't... It's just...

It's cooked back there. Yeah. We're not going to use it either. What? But... You want mine? I'll sell to you real expensive. They don't make him that.

anymore? They do make them. They don't make the mic. Oh, I don't have the mic. I don't have the mic. The mic is like you can do it. Well, so the problem is Waylon has to do it

because the harmonies are generated off of him, not me. Because if there's a part he's singing. Well, then he can go. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, we have it. It's built for guitar players too. Yeah, it is.

It's got cool shit in it. But yeah, couldn't be more proud of that song like conceptually, lyrically, instrumentally. You like that one? Yeah. Nice. There's no song on there that I don't like.

Which is impressive for you. Like, this is not your forte, this genre of music. Right. I think that's why it works. I'm open to things more in the last three years than I was. I wonder why. It's his fault. It's his fault.

And I would never say that otherwise. It was a type of thing where I literally was having to inform him. Like, okay, this is a story Taylor doesn't know. Hit me. I had to call justice one day because Taylor insulted all of the songs. from All Roadsley to the gun. I sent him the demos. And Taylor, like, straight up

clowned it to me as we were, like, two weeks out from recording All Roadsley to the gun. And I was like, do I cancel this session? I feel like he's being so rude. Like, why is he got to be a dick about the songs? Like, what's happening, dude? Well, there's a biological reason about it now. But, yeah, keep going.

But I was like... We both have it, though. Yeah. We just were talking about that much. The... Yeah, but I was like, I was like, dude, why... Because he was basically implying that All Roadsley to the gun.

The subject of that lunch being what they talked about is so the subject of that. Like, yes. Yes. But I remember calling justice and being like, dude, what, what, what do I do? Like, because I wanted to cancel because he was just rude about the song. Because like, to me, I was so putting my entire life in the recordings and then it'd be like, this isn't All Roadsley to the gun. This is Ian Shelton's life's heart. Yeah.

Yeah. And he just, he just dissed it. Taylor. Did I? Oh, yeah, you were real. How does that make you feel? I feel sad, but I feel like I was also probably doing my job. None of the songs changed.

What size is very high? I think he just, he definitely, also, you're saying you never heard a demo very high. That was, you diss that and big disappointment. Those are the two songs you dissed. Big disappointment. You like big dis-dispoint. I sure do. But you know what?

I don't think I heard vocals on it. There was vocals on everything. There was not a single song that did not have, because I, A song it does not exist To me until it has I don't think It's not the first time I've been told I've been harsh

I don't think music is supposed to be absorbed One time No no way It takes me a bit Especially because I'm not This isn't my wheelhouse So I'm like Laughing at things because it's like

Oh I'm at this on the radio Right yeah I get that So famous Yeah Like when I was a young That is a great example When I was like a young

guitar player when I figured out how to like pitch squeal I thought it was like hilarious because like you only hear that and like we also had a big argument about how you guys thought a marauder riff was funny it is funny it's objectively a funny I don't even want to talk about it continue next

I'm a big coheed guy I'm a big coheed guy I don't think like you got to listen to those records two three times before you even know what's happening I think I think I thought it was embarrassing until I'm spin kicking in my room.

Cohe? Yeah. Hard as fuck, dude. Yeah. Shout out, that's gang right there. Straight up. Yeah, it is gang for him. 100%. Going on a cruise together.

Can I come? Is there a casino? There's a casino? I'm there. So you, when working on a record like this, you hear it over and over and over again. You get close to it. And I know how that is for you.

Because I know there's things you record. I've sent you at least 30 things in the last three years where you've gone, well, this sucks but sounds good. You did a good job, yeah. Yeah. Are they happy? Yeah. And good. I mean, that's kind of the ammo, right? That's kind of the role. That's the job. He's a documentarian.

Like, I think that specifically since him and I started working together, he went from an engineer to a producer. In a way. Like, he's been produced. I've always, uh, interjected, but now I actually... Now he makes it a part of the title. Now it's like, But like you should. Like,

like, you have that year. And I think, I don't know, I don't think, I don't think I wouldn't say that crime and punishment is one of the first, but I was emphatic on the fact that his name be on there as producer. You wanted,

that's nice. Song input. Yeah, because I literally was like, how do I make these songs better? Yeah. Like 50, I would say,

it used to be maybe 70, 30 where bands would actually want input. Now it's 50, 50, probably. But this has like, So there's a difference, like, in hip hop, producer means...

You wrote the songs. Yeah, yeah, you did everything. With this, it's like, you know, Ian Shelton wrote the songs, and then the other... And then the vibe curation surrounding... There's sonics and performance, which I file under production.

Right. If I'm moving a knob that's not in here, that's production to me. So true. But also there's, if I'm fixing a harmony, if I'm adding a lick to a riff, that's production. Sometimes you get writing credit for it, but

other times you don't. But to me, it's all filed under one thing. Like Will Logic, the harmony is him. He conceived of that part. He keeps tabs of these things. Oh, I have a fucking Rolodex. I know any part that did not come from me. I could never do that. It happens. It comes

out of my brain, and then I forget about it. I know, I get that, because there's a little bit that's like, why the fuck didn't I fucking think of that? Well, it's good to know. Like, you know, like, people can get really attached to the autour bullshit and it means like nothing because it does not result in greatness

you know like the end product the end product is the only thing that matters like I like and I've I joked about it on a different podcast but everyone uses my name first no matter what so it's like why would I not just steal all the great ideas in the room because everyone's gonna assume it was me you know like but at the same time I keep trying like Phil Odom is another person

where like I'll be like oh yeah you came up with that part that was your thing and he goes how do you know that? You know, like, and I'm like, oh, I know that I didn't, I know what I came up with. It is interesting that you're like,

front man face of the band, and then the ass of the band too. Like, you're doing everything else too. For sure, that. Well, not everything else, but. It's, but at the same time, there's so much else,

like, like Nick Cogan's guitar tone, like, and his style, like, I wrote riffs, Nick played every, almost every riff on the record because he's the most competent hands in the band I don't need to I don't need anybody to play out of fairness

I want the best performance and why ever would I play drums if Vince win is in the room you know like that that dude is a monster I think we lost over Vince a little too fast before yeah Vince is one of the best drummers in the game yeah 100% I don't think well we we went over him so fast because his performance is done so fast yeah we did a one take

Stop and focus. I want to, this is a specific to Vince. You're doing great, buddy. He's doing great. Next thing. Yeah.

But, but, you know, like him and, him and Nick are two of the best in the game, period.

And therefore, they're the ones that should be playing the goddamn song. Nick, Nick Rippin the Beatles solo was like the thing where I was like,

fuck. Yeah, so we did it. We did a John Lennon cover. We did that two days before we started tracking Lifehundred the gun. It was New Year's Day.

And Nick, nobody knew the guitar solo part. And Nick learned it on the spot. What song? Give me some truth. Okay. And he learned it on the spot in like five minutes. It was awesome. Because I thought I was going to have to go to fucking tabs.com. Yeah, and he just did it. He just did it on the spot and that was it, you know?

Like, yeah. That's incredible. And that's like the I like I've direct music videos right I direct things and that's how I view this role is like I'm just directing the project you know like oh okay I'd rather I'd rather have a great actor in my place than me be in front of the camera you know is there a production nugget that Taylor provided in particular that stands out where you were like damn I mean the Will Logic harmony is one of my favorite parts of the record I mean that that part is is is really incredible I'm trying to think I mean I mean, it was such a long process, honestly. And then for me, it was like a year before that, too. So it was a lot of steps. Instruments were also done in like a week. And drums and bass were done a month before

because we had to kind of slide into 606 time that was available. And then I did two records. And then we went back to military. How much did you just listen to those? drums and bass. Not at all. Not at all, but he was going. They were not balanced out for me.

But he was like, when are you done? When are you done? Can we start a car? Can we just get in there? If you get done a week early, we can start a week early, right? Yeah. I'm impatient as fuck. It's by the first song is called Do It Faster.

You fuck with tracking packages or what? I wanted to ask you about, like, what is that about? That song is, like, specifically what is Do It Faster about? In its most earnest sense, it's like, it's about not getting signed. It's like about like. Oh, that was the worst. I don't know. Continue.

What? How long it took. Yeah, yeah. It was like waiting on other people to decide your fate, you know? And I made it sound like it's about like a stoner friendship, which is also a thing. Because I've had those friendships and you're just like, I'm a chronically early person. I showed up to this at 11. 145.

What? That's why we went to lunch. So we, so this is, this started at 2 p.m. That was our schedule time. I showed up at 11. So that gives you a sense of my vibe. Jesus. Had sugarfish, though.

Yeah. And, yeah, but it was like, ultimately I just felt like pretty out of control in the fact of, like, things I couldn't affect. And just wanting the reality to change quicker. So, like, really ultimately, like, kind of points back to, like, not getting signed. Speaking of Quicker, the first person of the thanks list on this album. Yes. Is Michael Quick, aka cheddar? from candy tell me about why

Michael quick is first on this thing so number one on the on the thanks list because that was the person that made me realize that this had a broader appeal than just signing to a hardcore label and doing um

whatever kind of going through the motion going through the thing that that we see a lot of bands in our peer group do not not not as a criticism not as anything else but uh I sent it to him he was working at a publicity agency and he said, is it cool if I hand this to my boss, who is this guy, Nick Dierel, who is now our current publicist? He gave it to Loma Vista. We started having phone calls. We didn't get signed at that time, but those phone calls were what made me not sign with a label

and instead release all Roads of the Gun independently because, you know, like I, I, realized there's maybe somewhere else to go. Yeah. There's maybe somewhere new to go with it. So Cheddar. And Cheddar, Cheddar did that. Like,

like, straight up. Like, uh, and he was like, the person that like, like, would keep me update. He's like, this is what they're saying right now.

You know, like, oh, inside man. He was the inside man. And, uh, yeah, I remember, and he was the person. He was like,

would you ever, like, like, like, a label with, like a label label with this? And I was like, I mean,

as much as I would anything else. Yeah, I'd love that. and at the time not even knowing what that meant outside of our sphere but yeah that I mean he was the person that made me realize that all this was possible and so number one in the thanks list because because yeah that we would have just this record went about a year ago

and you know the reality would be very different do it bigger oh yeah next song it don't get any cheddar all right what's next next we got things Glass, track five. That's the beef track. That's the beef track. Do you want to elaborate? There's been, I got some phone calls the other day because I heard it out in a podcast.

Oh, okay. Has it been discovered? No, no, it's not widely discovered. But there's a group of people I've been beefing with like 15 years. Oh. Everyone in the Northwest is a coward, so nobody fights. Oh, okay. And I've written a lot of songs about them in the past.

and this was like starting to feel tired, but it was like a thing that I still was revisiting in my mind. And that's why, and the song like starts like on straight beef. And at the end, it ends up being like a list of people I've fucked over. Do they think the same of me? And so it's like meant to be like this beef shit is futile because in the end someone. So it's a beef track, but it's also like, come on. It's introspective.

Yeah, it's like it's just meant to be like. Maybe it's me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because at the end of the day, I've hurt someone the way they've hurt me. And like, ultimately, I got to just let. that shit go and and huge part of the record is just like talking about forgiveness and moving on with your life. forgiveness.

Beautiful. So fuck him. That's beautiful. I hope they get, I hope they get O'Doyle rules, you know. Okay. So it's back. Oh, no, no. Yeah.

It's never gone. Yeah. Hey. Crafts a man. Who cares? Works for me. Track six, uh, return policy side day closer. Side eight closer.

This is, uh, is meant to be like Rollins band in the beginning. Ooh. Cool. I want it to be like Rollins band and then go into like a, like, classic rock song in the second verse. Like it's like meant to like trans. It has like three phases where it starts just harsh and then like gets Are you telling him these anecdotes as you're recording?

Well, sometimes because it'll be like, oh, well, there needs to be an acoustic guitar under it because like I want this specific type of thing or like. Does he push back on that? Sometimes I don't want the reference in my head. Because I want the song to live for itself. Michael Scott. And versus, you know, whatever. Yeah.

I don't know if he like specific. We also listen to the songs so much together before because the demos had been done for so long. So he had heard all those. So he had heard of a fair representation. There were things where like, oh, this is a thing I need to happen from the demo. And then there were things. We also do a lot of like, okay, we're holding this.

We're going to try every song with this thing and see where it sticks. Oh, that's fun. Like putting percussion on every fucking part until. oh that's obviously good this is bad we put 12 string all over all over the record that's cool electric hand it ended up on what four songs three songs yeah

but it's playing the entire song 12 string over no I'd be like all the chorus on this one would be cool with that and then and then me like nope never mind yeah that's cool yeah see we could have used all this a long time that's why I want to get a 12 string for the next the one you're good at this now huh

I've been I'm pretty good at this now you like you the next The tongue's record is going to be fucking insane. Do you realize how long it's time? Can I say that? That there might be new in the future? Yeah. It's going to be insane.

I'm going to use all the tricks. Or I'm going to use all the tricks. I want to use none of the tricks. Is that a part? I want a part. I want a part. I want a part. I just want a part.

You should have assumed you would have a part. I'm going to have a part. There it is. So Side B, we're at Side B territory now. When putting this together for the modern listener, do you fear Side B? Are you like nobody's getting there? No, because I like it to still pick up steam.

Like I said, like smaller music publications are like, oh, side be's better than side A. You know, like, I like feeding into those sorts of things. That's where you put the interesting song. Yeah, yeah, and that's why I sway 2 and see you around there. The only thing that changed from my sequence, original sequence, to the final, was the swapping of return policy and seizure of assets. I could see that. I could see that. Think Glass originally wasn't on the record.

Well, that's what I mean. Oh, wow. It got inserted into the track of. So my thing was like seizure of assets and never fucked up once or the pop songs. And I had them like separated by return policy because it's a little more like intellectual. But then I realized, then I think Taylor was like, well, that just kind of like muddies up what you're trying to do. Like why not do the smart song and then go into two bang and pop tracks? Yeah.

And so that was that was a big producer Taylor moment. Honestly, it was changing the sequence. Sequence is a big thing. Yeah. I think we both care about sequence a lot. Like sequence. I think the four guys in this room care about sequences. Yeah, sequence.

So that's, I mean, I know we kind of already covered this, but like you record more bands than anyone else in the year. So like how an attitude that I've come across or I should say a school of thought that I've been exposed to recently is like it doesn't matter what the order is because playlists are such a prevalent thing. But it always matters. matters what the order is because the end art piece is still, in my opinion, what it matters the most. All the other things are important. Yes, playlists are the thing that's going to make your band big. But I think that your physical art should still be the sickest it could be.

It is true that that, like, that playlist will eventually get deleted. The playlist lasts a month at most. Right. Yeah. Like that, like, unless it's extreme metal workout. The workout has been fucking, they're killing. The work was awesome. It's rare that you get on the ones that you stay on.

And like right now, so our focus track, when the record came out, was never fucked up once. So that's been getting our like third most plays because of its position in the record paired with playlisting all these things. But it's about to get kicked off of all of those playlists because it's been a month. You know, so like that now ceases to exist. That's just, it's just a normal song on a record after that. And that's what lives forever. And the record is... And now it's track eight on that record.

Yeah. But... Anybody under 19... They might not hear it. Yeah, yeah. But that's when you start doing the things where, like, going into tour, we're going to have a playlist at the top as our artist pick. That's not the... That's going to basically be the set list.

Oh. So here's what we're training you to enjoy because we're going to play it live. I went to Paramore's freaking... Apple account and they have a playlist pinned to their thing is just the set list Oh what? Why wouldn't you do that? That makes perfect

The set list. You want to have a nice time at our show? Here's the set list. Dude, if I see a big band now, I go to setlist.com. I look at what they're playing on them for. If it's not good, I don't go. God of My Voice is one of my favorite bands.

They have entirely too many songs. Yeah. And they play mostly modern song. They play half and half. Like half new, half old. So I'm going to go and learn every new song. I don't know. so I could actually enjoy the two and a half hour performance.

Because otherwise I'm going to hate it. I saw The Cure, when I talked about this already, but I saw The Cure like a month ago, and their set list was, it was 41 songs. Yeah, I heard that all the biggest songs are at the end, right? Dude, their encores were like science. Yeah. It was perfect.

But I don't understand. Okay, so as a set list creator, I love starting with the song. I want to start with one of the biggest songs. Personally, like I don't know. That has to be a heart. core thing because no, I don't think big rock acts do that. I don't

think that it's like advised. It's, yeah. Well, dude, you ever seen Kiss? No, I've never seen Kiss. It's Detroit Rock City. Okay. And you're saying and they're gone. They open dealing it. Wow. And they rise from a fucking elevator to

dan-na-na-na-na-nan-na-and-so. Some bands get it. Yeah. I just love that, but then I've been thinking... Metallica would open with Samin for a long time. I've been thinking about it in the way of sometimes the crowd. does need to get warmed up. So if you open with your biggest song and they need to be warmed,

that song was thrown in the trash. As long as it's like that, that's, that's done. As long as it's like strategically placed, I think it doesn't really matter. Who's that fucking somebody that I used to know guy?

Gautier. Gautier. Gautier played that song just in the middle of the set. Yeah. And it didn't address it. Just played it. We, yeah, we've definitely,

when we go to Europe, specifically on support, we'll put three songs before the big song. So the end of the first block is the first song you're supposed to react to for the most part Because they're specifically for support slower to enter the room And you're really have to kind of bring them in you know and so is what we sound like you know this one Yeah, yeah exactly so this is set list this is setless science. People don't know how much Sequencing on a record and sequencing sequencing for a set list I mean that's like it'll drive a man insane well that yeah

I have our next European tour set list written That's awesome We have to have to have a fill in drummer for that tour And I sent it to him And he was like, holy shit And I was like, he texted me two days later I learned it I was like okay, well that's crazy

You learned 20 songs Yeah, that's a tough one Is it tough to play without Vince When he's doing modern color show? We've only had to do it once for But yeah, it's about the I want to put a gun on my mountain It's the worst thing in the world

Good feeling though Amazing feeling David from David Stallworth's from Oh dude from Terrain and Colour Cole boy. Yeah. He's a gang. Is he doing the tour?

He's doing Europe. Happy my boy's first time in Europe. Yeah, yeah. We're bringing an 18-year-old with us to Europe. Is he still going to be 18? I'm pretty sure he was 17 the first time he played with him. So he's going to be 18 now. He's, we got to stop.

He's an old soul. Yeah. Never fucked up once. Well, we never talked about seizure of assets. We didn't. But we talked about the secrets. It's, it's, that was in my many dirtbag tendency. that that's just me not paying

I don't pay bills as best as I can So I got too many parking tickets And the city took my car And I just was like, well, y'all can keep it That happened to me I did the same thing when I was 18 Do the bills go away? Well, if they keep the car

I can't comment too much on this bit I'll explain it afterwards Oh, okay I got you Gotcha, I got a thing I got a thing that accidentally is a loophole But we're gonna keep riding on it All of my show

it got wiped because they took the car as collateral. It's a good deal. I called them and was like, I'm not coming for the car. It has an electrical problem. I can't afford to fix already. Why would I pay all these parking tickets? And I was like, what can I do so you stop running up the bill in my name? And they're like, you can bring us the title, but

we're going to keep charging you every day for 30 days. And I was like, well, burning hell. Come find me. Yeah, yeah. That was it. Let that car go. They took his assets. Therefore, Seizure.

He had to walk. He had a seizure. Never fucked up once. Never fucked up once. Again, a track, Taylor, I think, originally didn't like. But again, I think it's in the production. It's in the things that make the song, the song, you know, like its final rendition. Like, I was originally talking to him.

I was like, I wish I wasn't so harsh. He's like, that's what makes the song good. You know, again, but that's what the entire conversation for the last record was, was I was like, I'm too harsh. And he's like, no, that's what makes the record good. So sometimes he knows that. and I don't. Do you want to do more shit like this, Taylor?

Yeah, and we have. Yeah, we did the N.S.P. I mean, I'm not specifically with Ian or with like... I would do... Oh, yeah, how would you do a record... Say, like, the next... Like a band that wants to be us comes to you. LP...

Offering as much money to do this long of a session. I would do it. You'd do it, but how would you hold up? I would do it. I would... I mean, I have that part of my brain. well trained. Yeah.

Do you find it like a good... You'd have your tricks. I can't wait to see these tricks. I don't think it would be a challenge. You don't think it would be a challenge? No, I don't think it would be... Ultimately, he's not having to write it. He's not having to do...

Like, he's just enhancing the things brought to him. That's a good producer. If it was on him to create the new song, like that wouldn't be a thing. He wrote a lead on, let me be normal. You know, like, he is a part of our writing group. You know, like... I definitely don't mean... challenge in like a derogatory way.

Sure. As like a fun challenge. It would be no, it would be great. I, you love out of the box. I really, really love when I get to do records that aren't about

mosh parts because to me those are easy because that's just like me. I could do mosh. Give me mosh part. I'll fix it. I'll make it so much better. I'll make sure you play it great.

I'll put your hand in the right position so that you're chugging right. When it's like Twinkly shit that I maybe don't listen to all the time. I would not describe our record. No, I wouldn't. No, I'm saying if I got something else, if I got something else,

I could, I have fun with something new to me. What type of, what type of, like, genre would you say no to? When you guys had your P-break, Sean joked and said, so you want to do my hip-hop stuff? And I was like, that's probably the thing I would do a bad job at.

Ah. Like, I don't. But he's also offered to help my brother out. But I have. I have done that. But that's the thing. He hasn't done it yet. But I'm not going to sit and write beats for him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but one time you chopped and screwed this Luther Vandros thing and turned into like a hip-hop beat, it was sick.

I have no memory of it. Yeah, exactly. It was good. How long ago? 10 years, 12, 15.5 years. What the fuck did I do that for? For no reason? No, there was a reason, but it didn't. It didn't work out.

But he could do it. He's capable of it. So I know what you're capable of more than you do. So is he in. So to talk about it. other bands, it would be good to mention that we did produce the MSPaint record together which I would like to know what was your

first opinion of MSPaint? Because your first opinion on things are not always, usually negative. The last one. I think I was like I think you showed me hardwired and I said I think I liked it immediately but I

it's like weirdly catchy and obviously I think I have to talk a lot of people into MSPaint at first. But that's because of the world you're coming from whereas the punk world is not feeling it. They're like they're in. This is it. We found

what we've been looking for. But I I think I saw the potential in it instantly. And it's like still kind of hard. Like there's no singing. It's heavy. I described it as raged against a machine with synthesizers.

And that's kind of where my mind went with it was I made it a little more aggressive than they seemed like they could be. There's also a difference between like, hey, what do you think of this? And hey, what do you think about working on this? There's a little, I think it's like, ooh, the possibility. But it wasn't brought to me because you showed me the demo is just like a you should check this band out. Yeah, I'm not sure. Yeah, I don't remember what the, and I thought it was, I thought it was cool. I think Taylor is one that talked me into producing the record. Because I was like, I really want, because they sent me stuff that I didn't feel like it was always all the way there and then I was like I just I'm so busy but I

fucking love I feel like this band has like insane potential and just needs that last like three percent of help you know and then uh and I think he's like you should you should do I mean I was here pacing the block when I called them and was like hey can I say something really out of pocket to you and invite myself into your record and ask you to come to LA to record it because they had it done oh in their mind they had done uh-huh No, recorded. Oh. You're like, what if no?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's what ended up happening. We did the whole thing? I called them and I said, which, and I'm not talking about school. I think they've said this in interviews as well. But I was like, there's no other hardwired on the record, which was their hit.

And so I was like, I would like to come to Mississippi to work with you and then we'll write some songs, bring them to Taylor. And then Taylor will make them sound dope. And it's funny because D.D. the singer, like, did not know. what Taylor was, what twitching tongues was, what Nails was, nothing. But their base player, Randy, is the hardcore guy, and he's like, the guy from Nails. The guy from Nails is saying he wants to work on our record,

you know, like, and then that's when it happens what happened. Now D.D. is obsessed. Now D. D.D. is obsessed with Twitching Tung. You literally the only thing. Each other's number one fans now. Pretty much. I really love that. Happy birthday, Dede's, Dede's birthday. Oh, happy birthday, Dede's.

When it comes out, who knows. It's going to be months from now. Yeah, you guys are a great job. That's out, right? That's out. That's out. That's out. I hope we get to do the next one.

That's my, I don't know what their goals are. That would be great. I mean, that's like, I would say, Life Under the Gun, MS Paint, and, like, maybe drain and suicide sounds. Those are, like, my favorite things the last five years. RJC, too. They're all vastly different from each other.

They are. And that's the thing is I don't, I think that I just look at music a little differently now where I can see what the cool parts are or the things that I can contribute and the things that I can make sound cool because I really like sonics. Like he flew there and fucked with the songs,

twiddled a little bit, wrote some songs with them, brought them here and I said, well, I can make this explosive, this can be sick, well, it's double this, I'm going to compress the fuck out of this. He comes in and he's like, oh, this song, the synth is the driving part. so let's have the synth be the panned part and the base down the middle and then the next song is bass is wide synth down the middle because the they're at you know like they change the roles and that's all him like i'm not pitching that that's him being a producer you know like and that's where we compliment you know is i care about the songwriting first and foremost like i'm fine with something sounding like shit if it's a good song but taylor's like the sonic guy you know he loves sonic i love son i actually did buy the new song

I can didn't play it. Oh, really? Mm-hmm. Continue. He's more of Knuckles vibe. I like that. He's an echidna. He's very echidna-esque.

We got big disappointment up next. This is fun, isn't it? Yeah. Tell me about this one. This was an old song. This was on All Roadsie to the Gun. This is the only re-recording? This is the only re-recording, yeah.

Justice was somebody who told me that he felt that people would talk about this song for a long time, the first time he heard it. and I like am chasing making that true I don't think it's like the best song on the record I think it's one of the best it's our biggest live song Is it? It is yeah I mean But it took a minute it was a grower

But that's because we The first shows we played were before it was released And then our first tour happened Three weeks after the release of the record So it wasn't like like do it faster is a song that has But it wasn't a single and it grew into a big song Yeah yeah yeah Yeah it into a big song

rode into baseball man yeah yeah uh it's a big old boy now and uh yeah so i just was like yeah i want to make that i want to make what justice said true you know like prophecy yeah i will see i mean straight up i mean like i mean justice was such a huge influence on this whole thing you know like this moment in hardcore doesn't happen without justice like um i'd say the last 15 years yeah a few moments justice has been the leader of this shit for for a long time now and we're all... Yo, yo, what if like the song,

like, did something else right here? You're a cheat. That's honestly the conversation we have the most together is that where he'll be like, even I, like, you gotta not shut your mind off from the opinions of others

because somebody else might have this perspective about what you're making that you would never think of that is just going to make it better. So when you get into the ego mode of just like, no, I don't care what you have to say. You're only hurting whatever you're doing. Definitely. And I mean, Justice is like one of the first people who ever took a chance on me like as a person.

Like I cold emailed this man asking, can I make a music video for your band? A music video for your band. He said, yes. We made that music video. Yeah, we could do that. Since then, you know, like it's grown into, he was on a RJC record. He like, we've done so much. I've been on cold mega music.

So yeah, he's just deeply influential. So when he says something about, like, I think the song is special, it's like, okay, I'm going to take that seriously, and I'm going to lean on that. I'm going to try to make that true because you see the potential in it. So, yeah, that was a big reason why I got re-recorded was that it was just like, this song is special, but I don't think we got it completely right the first time.

So you prefer the re-recording? Oh, yeah. I mean, the melody's better. melody's different for the chorus just slightly it's so difficult to do we got the like you went and sang it on tour for a month you got the nuance so the live and live nuances and inflections got added to the song all

roads into the gun that we'd never played a show you know like that was a studio record from a guy that had never sang before in his fucking life and the first show was fucking lit yeah and it's and it was fun the whole time but it's like you know I had a lot to learn as as a singer and and and that's song benefited from that.

How was Chicago the other day? It was amazing. I didn't even ask you. It was amazing. I was a little nervous because I saw some big horseshoes. Yeah, yeah. And I combated that by being like, listen, we are the softest band on this show by 10 miles.

Like, get up here. There's no mosh parts. Get up here. Get up here. Get up here. And it worked. Did you eat? Did I eat food?

Did you eat in Chicago? I had. I had two Chicago dogs. Oh, nice. Just from the food cart. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That place is pretty good. Yeah, okay, cool.

Yeah. Sway, too, you've been dying to talk about this one. We already kind of, dude. This is your favorite song, right? This is my favorite song. Yeah. It's up there for me. So, I mean, this is, like, the funny podcast.

So I haven't been, like, talking about too much of, like, the emotional element of the songs. But a huge part of the record is, like, talking about regret and hurting other people. and like trying to keep moving with your life in a way that feels all right even though knowing there's like all these things behind you. And I really struggle with that of being like, you know, like if it's exes, if it's ex-friends, if it's anything, you know, like, because I feel like I live my life in opposition most of the time. Like I am a very spiteful person.

I am, but with that, if someone's no longer in my life and I don't feel spiteful towards them, I feel uncomfortable winning without them, if that makes any sort of sense. Like, it's a guilt of, like, someone that you used to know. And, uh, Gautier. Yeah. I didn't say it, but I thought it.

Halfway through the set, he played it. But, but yeah, I don't know. It's, like, that's a huge part of the record. It's just being, like, embracing the idea that, like, there's all these past relationships and all these people that've hurt you, you've hurt, whatever. Yeah. And, uh, this song is like,

the first verse. It's like a very conceptual song, which the other songs are not. Every other song is written almost completely freestyle, like lyrically, where I have no lyrics written going into demoing it, and I start making sounds, and slowly they turn into words. So, like, when it comes time to write down the lyric sheet, I'm writing all of that down for the first time, for the most part. He's a freak.

You do that on every song? Pretty much, besides Sway 2. So you're the headfield. You're the headfield guy. Besides Sway 2 and return. policy because those are the conceptual songs on the record. And so this one was very conceptual. So it was very premeditated.

Again, Phil Odom made the melody in advance, like sent me a piano part of... Dan, dan, dan, da, da. And so I was like, all right, so I know the cadence, you know, like... Now you just need syllables. And now I need the words. You could probably do that again. You could probably do that some more.

Yeah, oh, definitely, yeah. Like the melody. And yeah, so I don't know. And so it was very conceptual of like, the first verse is trying to escape blame. Like someone else has made my decisions for me. Like, because I can be a very manic person. I've burned my life down like five times.

Just because I suddenly am like, I don't know. I feel crazy. Can I just get rid of it all? And then I do that. And then I'm like, what happened? You know? And so like, it's about that feeling of like mania

where you're like, first verse is like, I wasn't there that day. You know, like, I don't know. I wish none of this happened. And then the second verse is being like, yeah, okay, I did it. And that fucking sucks that I chose to make those decisions. And then the bridge is like,

can you trust your own feelings? And the lyrics are, what do you trust when your brain flips in trauma and lust? Because that's like so much of what makes our interpersonal relationships. It's humanity, baby. Is this like, you know, intersection of trauma. and lust. I mean, trauma and less is like

what makes relationships, you know? Yeah. It's the way you relate to the opposite sex and yeah, I don't know. I've never been more proud of a lyric than that. I don't think. Awesome. Good shit. So yeah, a very conceptual song,

heavier song, but. Seen's favorite song. Yeah, favorite song in the record. It's one of the other songs. Taylor's really nice it too. It's because of the most like classic rock. I wanted to sound like Rolling Stones,

but then Nick refers to it as the Red House Painter's song. Which I love, house painters too so and mark needem mixed red house painters you go you got a favorite stones record uh mine sticky fingers okay

for sure that's probably the most obvious one but that's a favorite um onix member sticky fingers sticky fingers mine too I didn't I didn't think that I would get a rap reference I got you on this podcast I mean trust me it's not a

we'll pull him out no sure it's fine you know what do you mean he's relevant Wow. Yeah, when he was on M&M's Marshall Mathers, I'll be for sure. There you go. All right, so there's... See you around.

This might be my favorite song. Really? Wow. I remember you, I remember it being sent to you and Taylor was like, Colin likes that one. Oh, I fucking...

Which, like, trust me, there's nothing but self-consciousness surrounding this song. Oh, I mean, I can see that. The demo version, I think I just hated how... The vocals were off time. There was another thing. No, there was less happening.

There was only the Melatron. the one layer. The way the vocals sounded. Oh, it's because they're tuned. But they were like on purpose so you can hear the... Like share vibes? No, what it is...

Yes, it was like that. It was like that. But I'm all in on that. Okay. If you hit me with like some believe, like obvious one, I would take that over trying to tuck it in. So what it is is the...

I make all my demos on my phone. So Phil Odom did the keys for that song and we... It was like me, standing over shoulder being like, no, do something like this. You know, and then we, then you just exported it, and then I just went to the, I went and recorded it without

him on my phone, and I just cranked the auto tune because a lot of the time, I don't even, let that early on, I'm not like, my ears and mouth are not totally in tune, and I'm like needing a little help finding where I'm trying to go. I thought it was, it was an aesthetic choice. Oh, it was just a demo.

But I thought it was a demo. Which all the demos have a lot of tune. Yeah, but that would have been a dope aesthetic choice. Do you believe in life that? You're telling me, believe doesn't go hard as well but it rocks without it

it does it's my favorite song on the record yeah but that's just like saying like a particular distortion is too much or something

like it's just a effect at that extent it's just a but it's like a chill song and and it's like classic sounding

with a fucking melitron I don't want to hear it sounding like T-Pain over a fucking melitron T-pain is one the greatest singer

you know what I'm saying yeah the aesthetics the aesthetics clash sure so the most emotion

he shows He's like, no, no, I know, just a T-Pen, I swear. T-Pen's a go. Not dissing anybody, I'm saying. This is also one that's like very much, not only is it meant to, like, nod to my love for the Beatles, but my love for Kanye West,

where it's, he does really amazing minimal songs. And minimalism became a really big part of his thing, like, Yis and On. And, yeah, I don't know, that, like, the idea to go, like, we don't need anything else is a crazy decision, you know, like. Especially when you have, the world at your fingertips.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You didn't do anything else. And so we did some layering, like the song gets bigger. Like, the demo was just the one Melotron part. Nothing changed, and it was just vocals. And then we added, it's funny because we use the guitar on the Melotron. So it's like the guitar feature, but it's like not, it's not actually guitar. It's a melitron.

Right. But yeah, I don't know. That song is just similar to Sway, too. It's like just the idea that, like, you see people around. where you used to know them, you know? And I wanted to put a really male intimate line in it. We're talking about struggling with intimacy here. There's the lyric, he doesn't sing.

He doesn't sing to me when it used to be something that I'd like to see. And I feel like what we do in hardcore, what we do as musicians, is really intimate in a way that none of us address, which is that it's men singing to each other. Like at the end of the day, like Taylor and I don't hug. but he's listening to me sing in the other room and going like, no, do it like this. You know, that sounded beautiful, brother.

Like, yeah. That's so many times. Yeah. And so that's, that's a cool, beautiful thing. And I wanted it. And I feel like that male intimacy is not something like really ever addressed. So I really wanted to like use the pronoun. He doesn't sing to me.

It's nice. It's something I like. Really like that. So yeah, that just was like, again, a lot of it also kind of like dances around like, some cancellation stuff because that was really a big thing during the pandemic and like people you used to know is like a

that falls under that umbrella yeah wow and what closes sad as fuck well before that I just like I I love that song and I love the minimalism of the song like I genuinely think um with writing

like possibility can be so poisonous to creativity yeah because a a song can spiral out of control so fast. I know Taylor used to like hate production. He hated it. And I think because it was like just let the hard songs be hard. Let the soft songs be soft.

But the soft songs were where I would put up the most stuff in it. Of course. But now I think it is nice to see kind of like with things like this record with MSPaint how much your mind has broadened. Yeah. So thank you. Well, it's probably easier when like, Like, you're also referring to, like, 15 years of recording and making music together, at least.

Yeah. Where now, like, I think the songs are closer now, you know? So it's, like, easier to not get, I'm sure he's like, oh, well, this just aids this. You know, I'm sure his motivation is just like, this would just aid this part. Well, I just think, like, I also would say Twitch and Tongues still had the most production. You guys had the most production of any hardcore band at the time. It had to. That's what I'm saying is like.

I wasn't a verse to it, but sometimes it's like, oh, fucking reverse whatever here doesn't do anything for me. I just want this riff to be beaten ass. Yeah. See you around. Great song. My favorite song in the record. Life Under the Gun, title track, last track, brilliant. And I think that is the way you get the 12-year-old that is streaming this to be like, oh, this one, this is.

That's an important song. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's an important song. I think I'm supposed to listen to this one. That's genius move. Tell me about it. That was one. I wrote that first riff in like 2014. Bain it. Yeah, I was like, I was trying to do, so I tried to do before pre-RJC,

I tried to do an indie rock band inspired by God of My Voices, and I just was like straight up just ripping it off. And I refused a yell sing on it because I was like, yell singing is what title fight does, and that's lame. because I've historically kind of ridden the line between two punk but also does like run for cover and all that stuff you know like so I just like I'd be like I admire it at times but I I can't do something that's not me you want to do your own thing

yeah and so and you're not saying that title fight is like lame you're saying I would I mean title fight is what like it's funny because because like I even still to this day I can find myself getting offended if someone says something sounds like title fight but I'm like oh you're saying like one of the best bands of all time at this point. You know, like that, that is, like, they are going to be historically one of the bands. You just didn't, you didn't want

to buy it. I didn't want to buy it. I didn't know, like, I didn't want to be a, like, just, it wasn't my thing, and that's not like necessarily exactly the scene that I was coming from. So, like, to be compared to it was always felt weird. Title fight has, has, I know I've said this before. They've created more jobs than Amazon.

And so, so I did this, this indie rock band that failed because I was really bad at singing because I wouldn't project. That basically was it. I was trying to do it. You wrote it 14 years ago? No, I said, I said, no, 2014-year-old. 2014-year-old or 15.

Okay. And I misheard that. Which my, our buddy, Kevin Hart, from Public Opinion, who had to drum for that band, Mike, called me on the correct date. I haven't seen the public opinion yet. Is it good? It's great. Does the rock in that one, too?

Or do it separate? What do you mean? Said Kevin Hart. I got it. Oh. That's your Kirk Hammock. Creeping Death. He wrote that when he was a kid. Yeah. The breakdown of creeping death.

Well, I don't know if it's, I mean, I've had to get a lot more streams now for that to be in case, but maybe TikTok find in terms of like, hey, I've been carrying this with me a long time. I don't know what to do with it. Oh, here it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's what's funny is like it didn't make it on to All Roads the Gun or the demo. It made it onto this. Wow. Dude, that's very impressive to me. Coming from a band and a, like, we wrote a lot for this record, but it was kind of like

whatever we come up with is getting on the record so we better make it real good so having the wherewithal to like save it save it but it's not that it's that it just is there didn't come up it's just there it's like in the ether and it's like maybe sometimes I pick up a guitar

and I play that riff but I don't remember I'm not thinking about it it's not like on a note that's like use that riff someday it just was like I thought that shit was dead and then eventually you wouldn't list some shit out for later I see I see and then yeah and then it just happens so But that was like the homage to like classic rock was just, which is a huge part of the record is like Rolling Stones, Beatles, The Who.

Like, uh, and this was our, our Who song. Just like making an epic close song. It also feels like that one feels like a very natural progression from all roads too. Yeah. Well, when people talk about how much we change, I'm like, the vocal production and melodies got better, but the guitar work is like almost the exact same. Riffs. Yeah, it's the same like. Still your dumb shapes. Yeah, it's the same intentions, like, really, like, it's a lot of incomplete chords. Are his shapes dumb?

Are his shapes fucked up? That's why it's magic, though. Trepozoid. I play half the guitar at a time. Shut up. Yeah, so, like, some songs, I'm only playing the top three, and then there'll be a part where I go down to the bottom three. So he's doing the chord shapes without the full chords, and it's creating these weird melodies within each chord. Because it's missing or bass notes, or is it?

That's kind of a scoffing, honestly. Oh, dude. That kind of works. I would say that that creates a sound. Horns? Yeah. Please don't. Oh, I would love that, dude.

Not a horn section, but the Nelotron's got some horns. That's a great question. That is a great question. Actually, a single... Actually, I don't even know which one was. What's the base clarinet? I guess it was a base clarinet. Base clarinet of what it's called.

It's a base clarinet of base clarinet. That was only like... It was this year. It's not a... What record? Apparition. Oh, my God. Oh, right, yeah.

Wait, no, bass clarinet starts with a B. Base clarinet. Basinette. Barbar, bar, bar, bar, barbers. A bassinet is a basket, isn't it? Anyway. Gear talk. We got the gear talk.

Clarinet, I don't want to call it gear talk. So there's no bass clarinet on Life Under the Gun, but there is a great song at the end, and it's the name of the album. It's one of my favorite songs. It's one of the other songs. You're a big who-haired. Did you clock it as a,

as a who reference i'll be honest with you not really interesting because i feel like the the uh where you do the your have your finger on a but then you ring the the d and g below it like that's the who oh you know like kind of i'm free yeah yeah yeah yeah i get that fucking mega jangle yeah i get it jangle jangle that's interesting but i'm glad i'm glad i'm gonna go back you know yeah that means that's good it's fresh yeah right well that's the thing is i think the whole thing that we just do we rip things off with incompetent hands so it makes something new

like that's that's the that's the goal we rip things off with incompetent hands yeah so it makes something new not as good at guitar so it sounds like something else yeah that's great I mean that's like that's worse to live by right there that's what punk music is that's the entirety

of punk music yeah you're never allowed to get guitar lessons no yeah I'm never getting guitar listens you can never get better at guitar I might get piano lessons more like do that it's a woodwork It's not a horn. A bass clarinet is not a horn.

Should I go to Teresa for piano lessons? That would be where you would get the most... You could get like advanced piano lessons from my... You were broken in your hand? Yeah. It's going to be tough to play piano. Yeah, you got the thing. I got the bend.

It's going to be tough to... I got this. It's all... You have to have these extended at all times. And then when you get... Does that hurt to extend? No. But I've really pulled it a couple of hours.

Can you pull out this far? You're pinky, pinkie. Can you roll a binger like this still? Can you roll a burger like that? Well, then you're good. Yeah, you're fine. Once you lose, if you lose that, piano's out. Okay.

The buger rolling? Right now I'm on some straight up power cord vibes on the piano. Same, same, but really. But that's, if you listen to, did you guys watch McCartney 3,21? No. Oh, my God. It's so good because it's just him and Rick Rubin talking. And he'll talk about this, and they literally just listen to, they isolate stems.

Oh, I've seen clips. they isolate stems from it Oh, that's what the Cannibal course mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, like, he'll play the piano part and then he'll be like, well, that's just me, like, trying to figure this out. And then you're just like, yeah,

if you just slowly change the bass note, then you got your major seven over here. Like, I didn't know anything about playing piano. I just did what sounded nice, which is all I do on guitar. So just do what sounds nice. It's all that matters. The military gun ethos.

This was a lovely chat about a great record. Thank you for doing it. Of course. This is awesome. We hope that you have enjoyed this and that you support the record. Hire military gun to play your show. Hire.

I thought that was going a different direction. To make an album and then send me money directly. This has been hard, Lord. Oh, you got to get a pit recording code. A code? Yeah, he's like a sponsor. It's going to cost $100 more per day. And that's what he gets.

He gets. We. Using code hard law. You have to come to the address and open the first door, knock eight times on the second door, and scream hardlore at the top of your lungs. Those scare the shit out of me. If the dog starts barking, you get one percent off. One percent. Thank you so much for watching.

Military gun, life under the gun. Out now on LomaVis Recordings. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.