HardLore - Perfect Albums (The Master Killer Tier)

Episode Date: February 23, 2023

Colin and Bo discuss "The Master Killer Tier" of albums across all genres throughout the entire history of music. When perfect production, songwriting, sequencing, musicianship and lyrics are combined, you have a qualified candidate for the Master Killer Tier. Did your favorite album make it? Is Master Killer better than Thriller? Find out in this epic 2+ hour episode.   HardLore: A Knotfest Series, Fueled by Monster Energy Edited by Steven Grise • Title sequence by Nicholas Marzluf Join the HARDLORE PATREON to watch every single weekly episode early and ad-free, alongside exclusive monthly episodes. Join the HARDLORE DISCORD for community discussions and to participate in our future Q&A episodes. FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER, SPOTIFY, APPLE FOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAM FOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER   For sponsorship opportunities, email us! [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

welcome. It's a very special hard Lord time. Bo, how you doing? I'm okay. I hurt my back. You always got something wrong. I got something. What happened? Well, we had, okay, so we, Harmsway played heart support festival this past weekend in Orlando, Florida. It was a lovely time. There was a booking discrepancy with price line. We got a room with four bed spots. I volunteered. Slept on the floor, bad night. loaded gear, you know, and that was after sitting on the play loaded gear, played the show, jumped around. All back, baby, base cab. Yeah.

All back. Save those knees, you know. And got, even got two massages at the fest. They had massage chairs. Amazing. Two. Two of them. Before and after a second one is what fucked you.

You think so? I think what fucked me was sitting on an airplane for three hours. Probably. Or just, you know, age. But today we're talking about master killer. for a very specific reason. It's the pinnacle, you know. A lot of people argued today, like,

why isn't this the set it off or the Brightside tier? Remove yourself from hardcore and what you know about it. You show these records to a layman, to Johann Sebastian Bach. You go back in time, you say Bach. Listen to Master Killer, set it off in Bright Side.

Okay. He's going to be like, Schweiss and Das and... Yeah, that's what he would say. So that's a really good point. If you, if I showed someone who like peripherally likes heavy music,

Brightside or breakdown, they'd be like, yeah, this is good. They'd be like, okay, you show him. MasterCol. And a few others that were submitted that we're surely going to get to. Yes. But I think it's important that we...

Our criteria today. Let's explain. Yeah, yeah. Let's talk about the criteria because I think people are confused. So Master Killer is, is, is, uh, is, uh, is louded on the show because of, there's a few, there's a few, uh, reasons here. The production.

Mm, is perfect. The sequencing. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm.

The musicianship. Perfect. The songwriting is perfect. The lyrics. The lyrics are perfect. and and I will even say this, it's not my personal aesthetic, but for someone who likes Eastern style tattooing,

who's into the samurai shit like yourself, like the artwork, the music video, fucking amazing. It ticks every box. It ticks every box. And it's important to also remember, there's no samples. There's no gimmicks.

It's front of that. Yeah, there's no like the craziest, like, production overproduced thing is that like dive bomb that's like a minute long yeah that's just real that's just a guy going for one minute and um i think it's because i'm gonna one thing i want to talk about is when we talk about these albums are they allowed any skips um because master killer has quite literally zero no no skips let's and to that to that point Let's look at the track list of Match to Killer real quick.

I want to talk about it. Time ends. My favorite. That's my favorite song. And it's like, think about that as an open. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's as strong as anything.

It's as strong as anything. It's perfect. It's got a perfect breakdown. The yeah over the chug part is. They tell you everything about the band from the first song. And then track to. Yeah, yeah. you something else.

A rock a cow cow. It goes from like perfect first track to what is time has shown to be the hit. Yeah. Into like again, a completely kind of different sonic experience while just evolving what they've already done. And then they wait until track four to give you the single. But dude, don't skip mirror shows black. That's what I'm saying. Oh.

The chorus of Mirrors show black. Dan. And just on the ride to get to get down. Unbelievable. That was for a long time. That was my favorite song. I thought it was so good. I'm with it.

There's Marauder on this record. They throw away riffs in a way that works for them. There's riffs where I would take that and build a whole song around. Gotcha. They're like, no, we're going to do that twice. for 10 seconds, 15 seconds, where I would be like, I got to get that in a third time. It's too good.

Yeah, it's right, right. And good point. And that's, that's like a thing I've, I've tried to adopt writing wise, but it's hard because you get attached to something. And, like,

you look at movie scores. They, those motherfucker, John Williams writes one sick riff. And then. And he's like, all right, how do I play this a thousand different ways?

Yeah. Marauder, writes a thousand sick riffs and says, how do I do this one time? That's respectable. The A side is so stacked. It's crazy.

Not that the B side isn't, but it's just when you think about what side A is, because Mirat Shill's Black, master killer, Donful of Christ. Yeah. It's just like...

Perfection. Quite literally. And like, for anybody who plays guitar out there, playing all of Downfall of Christ, live standing at like show speed. The triplets? The triplets are fucking crazy.

Dude, I mean, that's double bass for three minutes. Three and a half minutes, yeah. It's crazy. And then even the chorus where you normally get a little respite as a player is dant and diddling, dend dend dendal and d'dron. It's still, yeah, the drummer gets a little bit. I mean, you get our point at this point. Great bass slide.

It's just, it's just hit to hit, hit, hit, hit, hit, hit, and it's. And it's in a way where, anybody we talked to that kind of came up in this era is like yeah they this went over a lot of people's heads like it wasn't a huge deal even though it came out at century media at the right time um it's just like everybody like top we did a we did a we did a mini hard lord with tom sheen where he kind of breaks it down i'm looking forward to people hearing that yeah that was a really cool talk now obviously people grow it's uh all these things are more people can appreciate it.

Some people still don't understand what we mean by Master Killer Tier, though. Right. So we're going to list off, I have a lot. I have quite a few. But let's, okay, let's just be super clear. So we're talking about, are there any skips allowed?

I think it has to be a per capita, per pound for pound situation, you know? Okay, because there's one that you said even before we started that I take objection to. You've got to skip. I've got to skip on truly one of my favorite records of all time and one of yours that I know. So that'll be an interesting discussion. But so we're talking about something that if the other hits outweigh the dud.

I think there can be this song is this album is 10 songs. And it's bad enough. Let's just let's just start with one example. Okay. Rancet and out come the wolves. Unbelievable. One could argue. Right?

Yeah. My only complaint is that it's so long. It's very long. But that's not. But pound for pound. Pound for pound, it's beefier even than Master Killer. One could argue. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, France is a band that I got into because, like, getting into kind of modern versions of, like, Lion's Law. I saw Lyons Law and Brody was like, dude, if you like this, you like, Rand's. answer just so you know. Gotcha. Yeah. So it was it was game over. But the complete sonic experience is is what I like. Gotcha. I love that. That's a good. That's a good answer. And it's, I feel it's objective. A pound for pound. And I also think it's important to keep in mind, someone asked, and I respond on Twitter, like a paradigm shift. It has to have done something. In terms of the paradigm shift argument, like, it needs to have at least shifted a paradigm with me.

You know, a lot of these, I don't think they need to have like, because Master Killer didn't change the landscape of hardcore. Not until like now, you know. But it just like connected in a way with me where I'm like, okay, this is just a perfect thing. So I, I, if you, if somebody suggested something that, like, dying breed, take my soul, give me grave. changed no paradigm.

But I could argue to the death that it's like sounds perfect. The song's perfect. The lyrics are insane. All right. But I, I don't, I wouldn't necessarily say it's masculine tear, but it's damn close. Okay. All right. I just want, like, okay.

There are, they're like, the fucking, the guy that said sinking ships, I, I, diplomatically, what are you talking about? Yeah. we're talking. Master killer. Sinking, I'm guarantee you and sinking ships would be like, I don't think so, man. You know? No diss to sinking ships, but not at all. Master killer. We're literally going to, we're about to talk about some of the most selling records of all time. 100%. So Master killer is the lowest selling thing that we're going to talk about. Yeah. Yeah. But it just happens to be perfect. What's your first one? Let me, I have a, on my notes app. I have so many now than looking at it. It's crazy.

I don't have that many. So my first, the first one that always comes to mind is homogenic by Bjork. When I heard, I'm not a big, I know that. So I also,

I was kind of, I don't want to bias, but I was kind of actively searching for unobvious ones. I mean, I have some obvious ones on here too, but also once in like,

where we wouldn't be like, oh, like you and I just wouldn't. Yeah. I just have. I have no stake in this discussion. You can tell me that the production's perfect and the songs are perfect. No, no, no, what it was for me and the paradigm shift for me was like realizing they're like, oh, there doesn't have to be a guitar. I'm not a huge hip-hop guy.

I'm not a huge. And at that point, I was not a huge electronic music guy. And this was like, oh, this chick can sing and she writes every, she does everything and is a total nut job. the record is just like beautiful. Like it literally, it changed the way I looked at music. Okay. Because I got into it after I was already into hardcore and stuff. So it changed like what I was hungry for.

I have no response. Well, get ready for that. I never heard. That's going to happen. I'm sure you're going to have ones that I haven't heard too. I don't think I do. Fucking Jack. I don't think I do.

We'll see. You want to know my first ones? I really would. Faith. more angel dust. I've just never heard that. No, yeah. That's a great.

It's crazy, right? Yeah, that record has zero skips. Zero skips. I could listen to it every day of my life. I did listen to it every day for a tour. The production is perfect. The musicianship is perfect. The production, even from like a modern,

hey, let's throw everything in there. Yeah. It's perfect. there's no skips. The like two hour, three hour documentary of them like making it is fascinating. It's awesome, which that's just an extra master killer point, you know? Totally. Yeah, totally.

Another box. Yeah. Wow. I didn't even think about that record. For some reason, it just didn't, because it's pretty new to me still, to be honest, 2015-ish. I would say it's my second favorite record of all time. Of all time. Yeah, album.

I have one coming up that I know we're both going to just. Jizz. Yeah. Cool. It's not coming yet, but, um. But I am. What's next? Well, let's just get it out of the way. Morris E. Vox haul.

Oh, you put Vauxhall. I put Vauxhall. Yeah. That, that for me is like even the stinkers, like lazy sunbaters is like the lazy sunbaters is like. The lazy sunbathe. It's like I can't help, but just. It's just amazing. That's all very well.

I put quarry. You put you or the quarry. Yeah. It's not that I think there are bad songs on you or the Corey. I just think there are more, like the pound for pound discussion for Voxal is what gets me. So I discover them both at the same time. So which means maybe my view is more objective because I didn't have any bias. It wasn't like, oh, I heard this first, so this is better.

I heard Viva hate because Josh from American. nightmare had Viva hate written on the back of his base. Josh, if you're listening. Thank you so much. Happy belated birthday, Josh Holden. I'm so sorry for punishing you on Instant Messenger when I was 14. He doesn't remember that. He doesn't know what a friend of the show he is.

He has no idea. He has no idea. Shout out. And that's how I discovered like those earlier records. And then Vauxhall was a little later in life, but not much. There's not, there's, there's not a bad second of music. of on box hall. Yeah, I mean,

that, so that's a big argument towards both of them. Dude, Morrissey with sequencing is crazy. Mm-hmm. He always saves the best for last. How was Speedway,

the last song on the record? Because he knows. He knows how to do it. I almost, so 39 years ago today, the first Smith LP came out, the self-title. I almost put that.

But then I was like, Voxal is pound for pound better. I get it. I mean, quarry's on mine. So we'll just say these at the same time. You are the quarry is my Morrissey record that I think is Master Killer Tier. Box?

I'm not going to say Box Hall isn't because put on fucking, what is it? Why don't you find out for yourself into hold on to your friends or vice versa? Vice versa. Fuck off. Like, what do you? What are you talking about? Fuck you.

Try it, motherfucker. You can't. Can one have more than one master killer record? because even Marauder doesn't. I love Five Deadly Vendos. I love Five Deadly Vos. But it's not. It's not the same.

I mean, the proof is in the production is like, they were demos, but they, yeah, it's fine. Where do I go next year? I'll just go in the order

that I wrote them. Yeah, that's what I'm doing. Here's for you, well, Master of Puppets. That's what I put too as my Metallica representation. I think it's just...

It's the best one. It's the best one. all the way, front to back. Production songs. Like, closing, like, yeah, lyrics, the vibe at the time. They weren't, they, you know, they were a full. Dude, the artwork is unbelievable. Come on.

Unbelievable. And it's, the longevity is in the, is being shown today, you know. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that was, that was the one I put for sure. And I, I saw a couple rides in our Twitter thread. Ride is close. It's close. and people were also tagging me and saying Black album,

which I obviously love. But like, I don't need to ever hear Unforgiven ever again in my life. I love Unforgible. I love it, but I don't need it. Sure. There's not a song.

But when it hits, you know, when we're at fucking Bloomingdale's and like Unforgiven comes on or something, we're like, oh. Feels good. French horn.

So this one. I have so many. That's fine. You're going to have somewhere. I go, oh, carry on a lifeless plate. Was a, I know, I see it in your face. And I don't think this was a nationwide thing. I really don't.

I'm from, like, they were, this was a huge record for me. Okay. Paradigm, I would say this was paradigm shifting. It's why, it's partially why I picked it. Every, okay, now, now consider also, like, what we know. Like, some of these songs are, like, about breaking edge. Some of these songs are old songs about being straight-edged as fuck. It's fast.

It's catchy. It's melodic. It's, dude, the fucking roll with the punches is so fucking fast. Do you do. Like, I love it so much front to back. I don't think it's Master Killer, too. Okay. I would ride for it to the death.

Why? What in your? Yeah. Master Killer in Not for heavy hardcore I'm just saying you would say You would say it's as good as Master Killer I would say well

See this is what we're saying This is what the discussion is But this is a pitfall of this discussion But that's the pitfall Master Killer is not as good When you're using the same genre MasterCillar is not as good as Master Puppets I disagree completely

It's my favorite album of all time It's your number one It's better than Master Puppets to me I would rather listen to it than Master Puppets right now you would rather listen to Master Killer than you are the Quarry right now? 100%. It's your number one. I picked this discussion because I was wearing this shirt, not vice versa.

You know? I think it's the best record, period. Okay. I love a lifeless plagued. I love Carri-on. I love every band, every member of Carri-on as ever done. Probably more than you. And I can't argue that.

that is magical to you. For me, it's, it's like a no-brainer. It was, it was one of the records that got me into, like current hardcore

and terror included. It was just like, there was just like, no, dude, I don't know if you remember this, but back in the day, you would,

you would illegally download a record. And sometimes when transferring it onto your iPod, the last track of whatever it was wouldn't make it. I don't know if this ever happened to you, but it was like a, habitual thing that would happen to me.

So the last track on LifeLess Plague, with the breakdown of the d- d-g-g-g-g-g-g-g-g-g-g- So you pirated it? Maybe. I didn't have that on my iPad for like 10 years and then got the CD and listened to it in my car. And it was like having a new carry-ons song. It was fucking awesome.

That happened to me with an album I have on here. Perfect. I love that. That's a unique thing. that will never happen again. Maybe I just go into that now. This one's controversial. Okay. I would love this shit on one of yours.

You're not going to. Brand new, the devil and God are raging inside me. Controversial. But that's one hell of a record. Archers Bowes was not on my original download. You know what? Lifeless Plagued is Master Killer Chair.

Now that I'm thinking about it. It just is. Archers Bowes was not on my download for first time. Really? So that, when I heard that track a couple of years later, it was like I had a new song from that session. And now it's like my favorite song on the record. Yeah. Yeah.

It's crazy. It's raging, dude. This is controversial. We understand. Yeah. Any issues you may have with this disgusting man. We're for sure going to talk about Led Zeppelin and guess what? Oh, there you go.

I mean, it's everywhere. There's scum? Are they scumbags? I mean, Jimmy Page was dating a 14-year-old, like, very openly. That is young. Jimmy Page was dating a little baby. Yeah, straight up. Well, that's gross.

But I'll just go into that now. Houses of the Holy, Led Zeppelin. Is my personal... So you get into a thing where I think, like, Like I would argue that Metallica have several records that are contenders. 100%. I'm not going to argue against Ride the Lightning at all. Yeah, right, right, right.

It's just kind of... Bade to Black is a better song than anything on Master Killer, probably. Anything on Master Killer? That's what you said. No, I said Master Killer. Oh, and that's what you meant. Oh, interesting. Yeah.

I thought you've meant to say... It's like legitimate, like perfect song. It's a perfect song. In, like, an objective musical. Yeah. You know? So obviously, I know, like, let's have on a ton of records. And a lot of them are, like, perfect.

Not all of them, in my opinion. For me, Houses was the one where I was like, oh, this band is like not what you hear on the radio because a lot of what's on that record is not really, like, radio hits. Sure. I have one real argument. for why this is the one. Sure. If Crowbar covers it and makes it heavy,

it's done. Okay. They cover no quarters on that record, and it's so fucking good. The rain song, over the hills and far away, the ocean, the bridge.

I love that record front to back. I like it a lot, and I respect your decision. Do you think any... I'm not going to argue against you. Do you think any Zeppelin record is up there? No.

Are you a classic rock guy much? I'll tell you what I am. Okay. I'm a kiss guy. You're a kiss guy. So Kiss Destroyer would be my... I was going to say, I was going to guess Destroyer. For Master Killer Tier records.

Love Gun is like right there. I love Creatures of the Night too. But Destroyer, Master Killer Tier, no question. Opener. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fuck you. That's how I feel. I have Love Gun, like a...

an old one. And it comes with a cardboard love. Like an old one? What? Like a, like a, from, from whatever year. And it's probably like an eighth pressing, but it was like. But it was old as fuck. Yeah.

I just, I'm not a huge kiss guy. And it comes with like a cardboard love gun. That's awesome. Cool. And I have it. Nice. Good for you. Thank you.

What's your next one? I'm trying to think. Trying to think. I'm just trying to think. if I'm skipping anything in my head. So next I had Metallica, Master Puppets, for sure. This one, I don't know how you feel about this, but this one, there's a lot of context to it.

I think Pretty Hate Machine is a Master Killer record. I think great songs. I don't need to listen to it, start to finish. So I do. There you go. I love, I mean, that was created in 1989. Yeah, that's crazy. Way ahead of its time.

Way ahead of its time. The next thing they put out afterwards was an EP that won a fucking Grammy. Is that broken? Yeah. So that's my favorite. And that was the follow-up to Pretty Hate Machine. And like one could argue it got the Grammy because Pretty Hate Machine was so, holy shit. Yeah.

Broken is so much harder. Oh, it's way, way harder. And like, don't get me wrong. Rain, rain, rain, go away. I mean, there are parts on Pretty Hate Machine that I'm not like crazy about. But do you feel that way about Master Killer? Are there parts you're not?

There's a, there's a riff on Master Killer that I once called Silly and Taylor was very upset. What was it? It's in life is pain. The d'a-lan-prican-l-l-l-l-pan-pah-dala-pand-a-dada-dun- Before the solo after the breakdown. That's a great riff. I just don't think so.

It's nuanced. It's adventurous. Look, it's better than anything that I could write. I'm not trying to say. I'm not trying to say that it's like whatever. It's just like in the context of the rest of the record, it's just kind of a silly riff. I don't like it.

Not crazy about it. That's an adventurous riff. That shit is mad adventurous. So I think it's okay to dislike parts of records or whatever. But I think when you look at like production-wise what it did for like that genre, like everyone knows nine-inch nails. Yeah.

I don't agree. you, but I know many people do. And I think that's enough. I got one for your ass. Hit me. A fire inside. Sing. That's your one.

For them? For them. Think about this. Production. Amazing. Sequencing. You know, I guess I haven't really thought about the sequencing. I'm going to, I'm going to say it to you and you're going to go, holy shit.

Hit me with it. Ready? Yes. Miserya Kantar, the beginning, intro. Right? Ah, yes. Leaving song part two. Biggest hit, track two.

Bleed black right after that. Yeah. Silver and cold right after that. I fucking love that song. Dancing through Sunday right after that. Love that song. Girl's not great right after that. That's okay.

It's, but that's like that's because that time has done that too. It's mother. You know what I mean? Mother rocks. Right, right, right. But you don't need to ever hear Mother again. Death of seasons after that. Love that song.

Great disappointment after that. Paper, airplane, cellular dream, leaving song, but home is nowhere. And then the greatest hidden track of all time. The hidden track, right. It's time of purpose. Art of drowning was just really important. Come on.

I can't argue with... Is it better than sing the song No, I just like it more. I know, but we're talking, this isn't about you. No, no, I know. I'm agreeing with you. Okay. This isn't about you.

It's about Master Killer. All right. What's your next one? That was a good one. Thank you. I didn't really think about that one. This one, you might hate. I don't, actually, actually, I have no idea.

But for me, and again, looking at the paradigm shift thing, Nails a band in all life Wow Why would I not like this one? I don't know because You're a contrarian This was a modern You're a real bastard

I would say I'm biased That's what it lies You know Yeah I'm biased so maybe I don't get Like I wouldn't put One of my bands on here Sure

I wouldn't put I would feel weird Even putting harm's way on here Even though like Those were paradigm shifting to me Because of bias I have no bias To any of these other things

Because this is just shit I discovered my life. Like, man in all life was like as a follow. It was a follow up to an already perfect thing. Mm-hmm. Which is near impossible to do. Like the sophomore record being, in my opinion, better. Yeah.

That the debut is, is. Way harder. Way bigger. Way longer. Yeah. Miener. The production was perfect. You know? Todd, like, sounded the way he did live on record kind of the first time. Yeah, yeah. Everything about that's, that's a perfect record. That's a perfect record. I don't listen to it a lot because I listened to it for a year, one year every day. Yeah. I remember, I don't even know if it was Todd or Taylor. So I got it early and listened to it so much that by time it, or maybe it was sale, by the time it came out, it was. It was.

kind of like, oh, yeah. Dude, I heard every version of every demo and then every mix and every master. By the time it came out, I had heard it. I had it for two years, you know. But still, I was like, okay, now it's perfect. So it's totally different. Yeah, everything, everything about that record. I like, I love truly.

I think that's a great pick, Bowen. Thank you. Great pitch. My next one would be morbid angel covenant. Covenant. Some would say the master killer of death metal. Would you say that? period. I think I would.

Over a dying fetus record? I got a dying fetus record on here too. Okay, but no, but I'm saying, would you say, there can only be one master killer per genre, would you say the covenant is the master killer? It's a dear. I would say it's the master killer of Florida death metal, which I think is its own thing. Okay. Yeah, well, yeah.

Has its own DNA, you know? Yeah, okay. Yeah, 100%. I think it's like the death metal record. Very interesting. And it's morbid angel and dying fetus don't sound that similar, you know? No, no, no. They're not doing the same.

They're not that they don't approach songwriting with the same intention. You're right. Dying fetus has heard Master Killer. And it shows, you know. Morbent Angel, probably not. Right. What's yours? Total gear change now.

We're going super soft. Change it, change it. Beach House Teen Dream. Get the, Fuck out of here. Dude, have you ever listened on that record? No.

You know, you're out of your element. I'm in it. Dude. I'm psyched to be out of my own. This record, front to back,

zero skips. What? There's nothing for me there. Dude, that is so, you like Morrissey. I'm gonna follow this up with something

that you're gonna laugh out loud. So fucking stupid. You're gonna say some weird owl thing and be like, I was watching. I love. I know. I'll put the fucking

pop star soundtrack on Master Killeteer straight up. But hey, I'll check it out. What is it called? It's called Fuck You. That's what it's called. That's a badass title. Beach House, fuck you. They'd be a lot cooler if they did.

Ready? Yeah. Lana Del Rey, born to die. Dude. Great. The Master Killer of like. Of like shitty PBR. Of like indie Tumblr.

Yeah. Of Tumblr. Dude, I mean, I still know, I know every lyric. Every lyric. Every single one. What's your favorite song? Off to the races. Really?

Right off the rap? I love off the races. National anthem, dude. Tell me. I love the red, white, I love the red, white, blue, and the eyes. Love that. Masterpiece.

Masterpiece. And even she does the fucking, she does, like, Red Hot Chili Pepper shit. Tick up up to downtown. Yeah, but there's actual words. But I still hate it. The thing I don't like about the album. There's one thing I don't like about it.

There's a guy in the back just yelling. Ha! He's like, ah! In every song. It's crazy. I hate that fucking guy. But other than that,

I think it is a genuinely perfect modern piece of pop music. By the time I was like... For what it did, Dude, everybody's doing Lana now. Yeah. Yeah. They're trying.

They're failing. By the time I was like firmly like, oh, this record is amazing. Paradise EP like just came out. And like for a follow-up, there's real drums in it. Well, they're like connected. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when you get that payoff of real drums on the first song of Paradise, it's like, crazy.

Holy Josh. And then she she changed instead of evolved for ultraviolence. Yeah. And it did. I like it. But I like 40% of it. Yeah. I was really excited too. I was a pre-or of the motherfucker.

Did you really? Oh, I love Born to Die. And Paradise. I love them. Yeah. I think they're like... What's the fucking dude? What's the song on Paradise that I cannot believe?

It's not ride? No, I love ride, but I think it's gods and monsters. In the land of God's... Looking to get fucked hard. sexy. Oh, dude. Oh, wait. Where is it?

Oh, dude, body electric. Oh, my God. Yeah. That's a masterpiece. Perfect record. What's your next one? Wow. Let's get this out of the way

because we're going to disagree, but we're going to agree at the same time. Oasis, what's the story? Mourn Glory. I put definitely maybe. I knew you would. And we've talked about this outside of, like, not even recording.

I think you're blinded by the singles. But like, I don't like Wonderwall. Like, I'm not. Well, then you're, then that's, you just discluded the album. No, I didn't because we, we have the pound for pound clause. I think, I think, I think the other songs

that are deep cuts, not on the radio. Way outweigh how overplayed Wonderwall is, was whatever. I look at the definitely, maybe trackless and I see I see Master Killed See I've probably listened to it like Five times dude

It just it just doesn't grab me It's that's I but I it's like You're brainwashed by time I think because I could sit down with you If you were sitting in a car with me And I put fucking slide away on You'd come all over me I'd be like what the fuck

You'd be like sorry this song's good Anyway You wish I like that you put them at all. See, my most controversial take would be that be here now is the best record. Right. Pound for pound. Especially if it had acquiesce and master plan on it.

I resent the idea that you think you could describe something to me and then I would get it. No, I don't think. That's not what I'm saying. It's like watching a comedy by yourself. It's not as funny. You want to know a true story? Harmsway went and saw Step Brothers in theaters together

And we all left going It was okay That's how I felt first time And then later on I got it for Christmas on DVD Watched it alone Immediately texted James And he had also gotten it

And we were both just like But that's the only other time In your life in that Every other time Like if I watch the office by myself I'm watching it like this Yeah Yeah

I don't laugh I don't crack a smile But if I got a Britney Miller here Yeah We're dying over the over like anything. Somebody sneezes. I'm like, kill. I've never heard that sneeze before.

It was crazy. But yeah, Oasis, I think is. They belong in this list regardless. Yeah, yeah. So that really only speaks to their strength. Oasis is the master killer of Brit Pop, Brit Pop, period. For sure. Yeah.

It fuck blur. Dude, I'm not. Yeah, straight up. I'm not down. I don't got time for both. I'm down with Mr. Ashcroft, but I don't need. I don't need blur. I'm good, dude.

Speaking of British things. Yes. No argument here. The world will nod in unison to this one. Coxbar, shock troops. The Master Killer of Oy. I mean, it must be, right? Sequence, production, lyrics, songs, musicianship.

I think when we... Artwork. Oh, the artwork is sick. Cammo with a big... ass eagle. It's like right up your ass, dude. Oh my God. I think when we talk to the chisel guys,

they didn't even mention Coxbar. They didn't. But it's like... But that's because they like... It's written on the sleeves of their songs. Right. They don't need to. We are meant to assume that they love shock troops, you know?

Yeah. Um... Yeah. Take them all. Finish the job. Yeah. Right. It's in everything that I do.

that record is in everything that I do. Take them all is straight up like, it gets me pumped no matter what. I could kill a man on the spot. It's so, it's such an intoxicating song. And obviously I'm sure the first Coxbar song I ever heard was Zingham belongs to me,

which obviously rocks. But that record, dude, I got your number. Riot Squad. Yeah. Amazing. Shoot on site squad. Oh.

What's your next one? Well, let's stay in England. Stay, keep me here. I got one in England next too. Beautiful. This was a later one for me. It's not going to be what you have. Rolling, this one's for Bruce, specifically,

because he and I have talked about this so much. Okay. Rolling Stones beggars banquet. All right. I'm going to act of a stater of the stones. Listen, I thought my entire life, and also being like a crazy who guy because of my mom, I thought my entire life that every Rolling Stone song

was Jumped Jack Flash or, brown sugar. Like every, you know what I mean? I thought everything was just like all the worst music. The worst. Yeah, straight up. Like what you just named were that's what I look at is the worst music. Dude, so I was exactly. The first song on Beggis Banquet is sympathy for the devil, which like you've heard a thousand times. I fucking hate that song. The rest of the record is blues and folk. Sounds nothing like it. I got you. The, The other thing that's sick, also I listen to that record because Street Fighting Man is on it, and that's what Chris Farley picks in dirty work. Oh, right. Street Fighting Man.

What did he want to fight to? And I put it on it and it would not be a great song to fight to. But the Rolling Stones were obsessed with Chicago Blues. Not like Delta Blues or anywhere else. Specifically Chicago Blues and took Chicago artists with them on tour who were already like old men past their prime and literally put them over. to their young fans to be like, hey, this is where we got it from. You should listen to this. And you can watch interviews. So you think that makes the record Master Killer Tier? I think it makes, well, but let's be honest now. Part of what makes Master Killer Master Killer Tier are the individuals in the mindset of the people in the band where they're, where they came from.

What I'm arguing is take away everything. Look at the record. You're talking. But can you do that? Yes. That's what I'm arguing. That's why I'm not. But no, you're not, because you've got these boxes that you're checking off that are all other superfluous shit.

They're not superfluous. They're objective. No, so I think you can include the fact that that dudes from was it's Somerset, Brooklyn? Yeah, yeah. Like a bunch of guys from the neighborhood made that music makes it more mystical to me. I know. I agree. Obviously, I can't argue that one of the most famous and successful bands ever isn't.

among the tier of like perfect albums. Just because I don't give a shit about them. I think they can die in a fucking... For sure. The more I learned about them, the more I like understood, blah, blah, blah. But that record's amazing, front to back. Okay.

We should say each other are... We should send each other our lists after this and actually listen to the records. You've heard all this stuff. I've heard most of it, yeah. You're putting some... You're putting Beach House on here. I'm putting bolt thrower

those once loyal. I mean, I didn't put that because I knew you were going to put it. Actually, I would. Didn't you, so you think that one's better than, uh, would you say your, your, like, go-to is honor valor pride? Honor Vailor Pride is just the one I put on. Those ones loyal is objectively.

Yeah. I mean, I agree. I mean, I agree. Okay. Okay. I agree. Period. Production, songs, lyrics, sequence, everything. When cannons fade is the closer. The closer of the band.

Straight up. And it's like the cannon's fading. It's beautiful. That's everything. Booming. What's next to me? I have so many left. No, it's good because I'm nearing the end.

Oh, this band has quite a few contenders. But I think Jane Doe is like an obvious front to back. Every song's got the riff. Production's crazy. artwork is crazy. The paradigm shift is fucking crazy. Sure. The musician ship is crazy.

Right. Everything about Converged Jane Doe. Even though I might prefer, like, you fail me over it. I think No Heroes is their best record. And I think that's totally fair. But I think when you look, I mean, some might say it's the master killer of the converged discography. In terms of popularity?

Sure. In terms of all the things I just said. Because it like, just think about how synonymous the Jane Dole face. Yeah, no, I'm not, it's tough to argue about that, but it's not my favorite. Therefore. And I don't think it's the best. I think they've only gotten better. I could say the same thing about Metallica.

I'm black album. But I think Master of Puppets is the best record. It's just not my favorite. Not what I put up. Yeah, but I'm saying I don't think Jane Doe is the best record. That's what I'm saying. Even if it was my favorite, I think it's like, you listen to Axe to Fall objectively, like they've gotten better at writing music.

Yeah, 100% of course. But I like these, well, that's actually an interesting point. Isn't it? Yeah. Because you're sitting here saying, no, they have better albums. Master Killer, the Marauder doesn't have better albums. That's the best one. You see what I mean?

I see what you mean. This is why people are putting sinking ships in our response. I need to dig myself out out somehow. It's tough to do. Because I think, do I think converge itself as a master killer tier band 100%? They have to be. They're unrivaled in their craft. Quite literally.

There's nobody that can do that. Yeah. I do. If I put no heroes or X-Fall or partitioning on or something, I can go a year without listening to it, but if I pick it up, I'm like, damn. I could not do this. Nobody I know could do this. This shit is crazy. They're on another plane of existence as a band.

They are to us what like neurosis is to them, as we've said before. You know, where we hear that and go, this is the best shit ever. Yeah, this is crazy. But I don't think Jane Doe is the best one. Nah. I think it is. One thing I think is. You just said it wasn't.

Yeah. You just said they got better. I wrote it down, though. I respect a stubborn man. I just, it just seems, yeah, I,

I kind of think of, I read an article or something that Henry Rollins, an interview that he did where he talked about how pink Floyd, he thought they were just like, actual druids locked away in a tower somewhere writing music because they didn't, they didn't put anything out with pictures. Like,

that wasn't a thing. And I remember when people don't realize, like back, like when Jane Doe came, what was that 2000, 2001? Yeah. When that came out, like, the internet was around, but like, you wouldn't find converge on the internet. Yeah. So like, I had no idea what these guys.

Yeah, they're mythical. You know what I mean? Now, even talking to Kurt. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So I, I, I, I just remember when, and it was the same with American nightmare, truly. I don't think. I loved American Nightmare when I was younger. And when I first heard some of those songs, I was like, oh, this West dude must be a fucking, like, monster. He sounds like a scary monster. You know what I mean? I thought they were all just, like, flannel wearing, like, tough dudes.

Like, I had no perception. And instead they were the best dressed. Yeah, the finest. You still ever seen. Yeah, ever. Yeah. And so I had that about Converge, too. and actually the first thing I heard was definitely sad to stay.

But anyway, I digress. Okay. I'll rapid fire a couple. Yeah, yeah, yeah, go ahead. Bad brains, bad brains. You're going to say Rock for Light? I love it. I think the production on Rock for Light is cooler.

It's better. Yeah. But I think the trash canness. Yeah. Yeah. I can't. I can't argue with it. I can't argue with that.

Time and place, it's like untouchable. Yeah. River runs red. I knew. It's kind of the only thing. Other thing from that era I can really argue just personally. You wouldn't say October Rust.

I didn't put down a typo record. Neither did I. But I did put down retaliation. I assumed we would talk about typo anyway. Yeah. I always say Master Killer is my favorite album. Typo is my favorite band. Yeah.

Because the discography as a whole is the Master Killer of Music. Period. Yeah. They have as many good collections of songs as songs on Master Killer, basically. More, arguably. They're going to have more than 10 amazing songs. Typo has more than 10. No, I'm saying almost as many great albums.

as there are songs on Master Killer. Oh, yeah. Which I think is, is inarguable. You throw a carnivore in there and you're like, and you did it, you know? You did it, yeah. That's what I put retaliation on here

because of the front to back sonic experience, track for track, songwriting, production, everything. What is, so do a typo, like pick one? Yeah. Yeah.

Like front to back. I mean, and then all the other considerations, artwork, lyrics, music videos, production. Okay. So I can't put bloody kisses. No, I wouldn't. There's skips on bloody kisses. It gets very goofy. It gets very goofy.

Again, favorite band ever. I modeled my life after them for better or worse, you know? October Rust. It was a record, October Rust. Isn't it funny that it's it's Johnny that starts that? Oh, is it really? He like just joined the band, you know? But maybe that was a nice thing to do.

Like, hey, you're in the band. Now, why don't you start off the funny little intro? We hope you enjoy it. But then, dude, here's how I'm going to lock this in. We hope you enjoy it. Dude. Yeah, I mean, that's crazy. So my experience with Typo was much later than you.

you. I was way more of a punk guy than a middle guy. We talked about this. And it was Saba and probably you two, you and your brother where I was like, I should check this, you know, blah, blah, blah. And you hear all the hits and you're like, okay, I get it. You hear bloody kisses and you're like, okay. Like I get it. But like, and it wasn't until I heard Love You Do Death where I was like, oh, this, there's way more to this, like, sure, way deeper. I, I used to get really depressed on my birthday. So this is so stupid. From my like 15th birthday on,

the moment I turn, uh, it hits midnight, I would take a walk outside to love you to death. And just take it in. Like I'm still fucking here on this earth. It's a door. That song has nothing

to do with any of that. But like it just made like it always, it grounds me somehow for some reason. Just the connection I have to it. Would you pick World Coming Down over it? I'm going to tell you something. I think front to back, slow deep and hard is the best album. Dude, I don't actually disagree.

I probably actually know more lyrics to slow deep and hard than anything else. The experience of start to finish, it's like what, six or seven actual songs? Six or seven actual songs that each have three parts. Like, they each have acts in them. And your brother explained to me that, like, each. song is like a form of grieving, which I didn't know. Yeah. Like that,

that record has a lot of meta to it. A lot of layers of the onion there. One of my favorite- It's not even on here, but I'm like just talking about it. I'm like, fuck. Dude, one of my favorite things, and then we can move on, is on the fake live record. When they play the Jimmy Hendrix cover. Right.

So Typo had been out. they cover it then on bloody on slow deep and hard. And then there was like, it's been years, right, since Bloody Kisses was done. Or fuck since Slow Deep and Hard was done. They do the Jimmy Hendricks cover

and there's a part where he says like, I'm gonna kill my baby because I caught her cheating around with another man. And Peter just goes, I really don't go for that shit. And like, that is such a- Where are you gonna go? Dude, that's such a little subtle,

like, I know this is crazy. this is all I've been talking about for the last like five years. Yeah, I swear to God, I don't like it. But I really don't like it. Like, it's so fucking funny to me. I just hate that you never hear the end of gravity. Like, laugh.

You know what's crazy is I'm looking at the Twitter and things are coming in. Yeah. And our buddy Brad put that Bloodborne soundtrack as like a bit. Genuinely on my list. I think it's the master killer of video game soundtracks.

Really? Yeah, 100%. Over Halo? 100%. Halo has one great track. Oh. Foreborn is every boss is like the best song you've ever heard. Like the next best song you've ever heard.

Okay, fair. But I mean, I did that as a joke too, but I'm also not joking at all. I listen to it every single day. So, but just to sum up, you would pick Slow it Even Hard. Slow it even hard is my pick. Okay. The Master Killer of Doom. Wow.

Yes. Boom. That's a great. That's a great record. It's perfect. And guess what? Six songs. Explain.

You'd never know. For people who don't know, explain the lore about the switch to the singer. Because you told me that. What do you mean the lore? Just. I bet you people don't know that they were like done. And then he was like, let me do this. Yeah, Messiah stepped in and was like, please let me sing for the band.

Auditioned over the phone. Because he loved them so much. singing over the phone songs from Epicus, Dumicus, Metallicus. And he was like such a classically trained in amazing operatic voice that they were like, all right, fuck it. And then he delivered like the most iconic metal recorded singing performance to me. It's unbelievable. It's all time.

It's perfect. It's unbelievable. And then hearing that this man, while they're playing, kept like double hamburgers, double cheeseburgers in his robe so that they'd be hot. by the time they finished playing. Is that true? He's hard lore, dude. He's one of us.

We got to get him. Messiah is in Ronald's army, right with us. So you got to give him that. Dying fetus reign supreme. I knew that was coming. It's the master killer of Maryland. Death metal with the spin kick parts. Straight up.

Straight up. Danzig lucifuge. I was debating between, one and two. It's two. I think. Production. Songs. Production's fucking perfect. Sequence. Performance. Dude. Two sounds wildly better than one.

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. It's perfect. Did Rick Ruben do two? I think so. Did he do one? I don't think so. Really? Okay. Three sounds like hot dog shit. Yeah. I mean, I'm not. I really don't get into later dance. at all. You don't like three? Not as much.

Like, I like it, but it's like, that's where it starts. It's not as, I mean, it's nowhere near as good, but I think it's awesome. But one just, dude, like, no, it's two. It's two. It's two. If you looked at the track list back to back, you. Yeah, I'm thinking about it in my head and like long way into snakes of Christ. Yeah, it's not even fucking insane.

I got one that you're going to fucking despot. Are you done? Yours are gone? I got a couple more, but you got more. So go for it. I do have a lot. We didn't keep this one short because I know you're going to argue

and it's fine. Coheed and came right and keeping secrets of sour. Get the fuck out of here, dude. We don't have to talk about anyone. No, we never need to talk about. It is a perfect piece of music. Production, songs, musicianship, lyrics.

I don't know what he's talking about, but I know it's sick. I don't know what he's saying. I fucking, all right. No, it's not. It's awesome. All things must pass, George Harrison. I mean, that's almost cheating

because it's a triple LP. Yeah. It's, but I'm just saying, it's almost just like, what it, it's the master killer of triple LPs

written by people members, you know? There you go. I mean, he's easily the best beetle. Best beetle. And I love Palm-McCarnie. Don't get me wrong.

Yeah, yeah. I love Paul McCartney. Yeah. Okay. So one of my ones, I don't know if we've ever talked about this, but I love the first Carl Spie Stills and Nash record.

No, we definitely have not. So it's just, nothing but harmonies. There's one song that's like a little goofy, and the rest are like, oh, I've heard this in a ton of movies before I just didn't know.

That's what All Things Must Pass was for me. Yeah, exactly. Every single song is in a movie. A movie covered or not. Oh, yeah, it's almost like Bob Dylan. I'm not a huge Bob Dylan guy, but again.

You know every one of them songs. You know every one of those fucking songs. Yeah, they're all on the Big Daddy soundtrack and covered by Natalie and Brulia or something. Fucking bare naked ladies. Yeah. Um, go ahead. I just did one.

Satisfaction. Almost the counterpart to MasterKiller, isn't it? Because it's fast. It's almost two sides of the same coin, almost. Not really. It's the other side of that coin. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah.

I don't, I think even Joste would say, like, there's probably no satisfaction without Master Killer. Mm-hmm. They covered it. They covered Life is Pain on their cover album. Yeah. Dude, that cover album? Cover album is dope. Some might say the master killer of cover album.

Yeah. It's very good. It's very good. It's, this was a paradigm shift. Big, well, obvious, yeah. The greatest production ever for hardcore album, maybe. Maybe. Snare's a little high.

Snares pitched a little. Love this. I love the Jamie Muck and Hobb snare, baby. Jamie, if you're listening, you know how I feel about you. He tuned to. There's no me without you. You got a favorite song? Can you just pick one off?

Betrayed my life, probably. Yeah. Got it. And then do that. Yeah, the catch is amazing. That's a feel-good moment. I love fucking, not one truth, maybe. Oh, that's a great one.

That to me is like, that's the thing that I turn that record out for. I got you. It's the one. But it's a perfect record from it back. Yeah. If we're talking that too, I think one that's like obvious, but I think it would be silly if we tried to pretend like it wasn't. And this is very much, because there's skips on this record, it's very much the pound for pound argument is age of whorel. It's undeniable. There are songs on the second half of the record that I'll skip. Pardon this interruption, but I believe you know what time it is. It's manscape time. Let's tell them what we got today, Bo. We got the all new beard trimmer. Some might say the master killer of male grooming product. This bad boy has a million settings.

So many settings. So many more settings than the average trimmer, which only goes zero to five. This one goes. And think about it, you got to carry them all. True. All the little bits and shit.

This guy just stays on and you just rash them up. Just like the barbers at the shop with the music and the quartet. That's that you could have that at home now. It's basically what we're saying with code hard. They're 20% off free shipping. They got the lawn mower 4.0, the go-to, the goat, too. You mowed your lawn recently? Today, but that's one of your business.

My favorite is the crop reviver. You just spray them. And look at that. You got shorts on. Wow. The beer trim came with all these little bells and whistles, too. Beer oil balm. Yeah.

Shampoo. conditioner brushes. You can get that VIP package and so much more with code hardlore 20% off and free shipping. It's also whatnot time, but let's talk about whatnot real quick. Let's talk about it.

I'm dying to talk about it. Because next week, next Thursday, I believe, will be the first ever Hardlore whatnot. So put it in your calendars now. Click the link below.

Join us. We're going to be put some good stuff up there. What are we thinking? What are you thinking? Maybe a T-shirt. Oh, maybe five T-shirts. That's what I'm saying. It's like, we can, we can do some hard lore for specific items that we have. I love that.

And then the people get to have it. I'm going to put a guitar on there. Wow. That will fly. Let's see what, let's see what it was described to me as. This is, this is a good description. We describe it as cameo meets I. Right.

But they like to say the most interactive place online to buy and sell hardcore vinyl records and music memorabilia. Wow. What? And why don't you see for yourself tonight after you listen to this? Go to Danhausen's. He's got one tomorrow at 830 Eastern. Back to the episode. Back to Master Killers.

And I'm sure there's no Master Killer without Age Quill. I've listened to Ajoral over. a thousand times. Easily. I mean, for a long time. And I think probably I could still objectively

say that's my favorite hardcore record. It is way up there. I think Brightside is better than it. I don't. I would go Brightside, set it off,

Asia Coral, personally. I would put Brightside on before Age Coral. But I just like... Isn't that? Oh, is that just because of the sheer amount of time?

Dude, I've literally listened to Age Coral so many fucking times. I love it. I know every second of it. I love it to death. I just like this argument, this isn't what this conversation is, you know?

But to you it is. To me. I'm saying it's, it's, it just like has to be because all of my things too, like the paradigm shift. Sure. The fucking lyrics where they're acting like they're living on this,

you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's all real and it's all fucking dope. And, you know, no carnivore typo without chromags like an AF and stuff.

Like it, it's in there. It's in there. arguable. It's the limit, dude. Great song. It's a perfect record. I'm not going to say it's not. It's unbelievable. It's just different. It's different than the conversation we're having. To me. But hey, how? How? How? But what do you mean it just is when you say fucking Lana Delray? Like, what are you talking? That's the master killer of Tumblr, in the female pop music. I'm saying the age of quarrel is the master killer of late 80s, New York hardcore.

Okay. When did Brightside come out? 89, I think. Yeah, I know Rodill was 87. Let's see. It was in the water in the 80s in New York. From aldehyde. 89, yeah.

Brightside is the master killer of the late 80s in the last year of New York hardcore. To me. But why is that, but why is that the conversation? It's not, I'm just, I'm countering. I'm going off what you're saying. And I'm giving my. You're saying what I'm saying, what I'm saying?

what I'm saying is not the conversation we're having. No, but I'm I'm folding on that. Okay, okay. And saying, okay, I understand that now. Brightside to me is that I think it's perfect. So I love killing time. I'm with you. Yeah.

King Diamond them. Interesting. Yeah, that's my favorite King Diamond. Interesting. I think it's a production start to finish, songs, musicianship, lyrics, yada, yeah, the story, the artwork. Oh. I'm not a huge King Diamond guy.

I could get you. I think you could. And that would be one I'm like open to because I'm ready. Oh, you're, dude. I mean, you're a guitar guy. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I know. Some of that shit is like.

I know. And I like ghosts. You know, like I'm, I'm there. I'm in the wheelhouse. You're a child of King Diamond, whether you know it or not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll get you. Yeah.

You got, you got a good one? I'm waffling on it. Okay. I was going to say the who who's next. but I'm changing my mind. I can't argue that. Yeah, yeah. I know it's going to be a boring conversation

because you're not a team player, but also I just think like that. I just don't know. Yeah. I have no argument to that. I can't tell you you're wrong. Yeah, I'm just changing my mind on it. I'm not, yeah, okay.

I got a crazy one. Okay. Justin Timberlake, future sex love sounds. Oh, man. Do you remember when that came out? It changed everything. It really honestly did.

It changed the world. for a few years. And it was like, oh, this guy is like, cool. Like, he's not like a,

a boy band dude. No, which is hilarious because, like, every single one of those songs was for sure written by somebody else,

probably for somebody else. For. And it's still, like, it's just this perfect thing that he struck gold with. Love that record. It's perfect.

Yeah. That's a really good one, honestly. That's a very, yeah, it's a very good one. Thank you. I got two more.

Hit me. I got, about 15 more. That's fine. Allison Chains. You got one of mine. Finally. Fucking kidding me,

man. Perfect. Production. Songs. Sequence. Lyrics. You know he means that shit. He's dead because of all that.

Yeah, straight up. Nothing more provable than that. And like you, we've talked about this too. Like I'm, I'm into Pearl Jam. And like even if they're kind of different scenes,

whatever. I'm not a huge Nirvana. but I get it. Out of all, like Soundgarden, all that shit from that era, blah, blah, blah. Allison Changes the only one to me that, like, it's still right there.

I feel Pearl Jam 10 is as good. As good. As dirt. Those are both my, my bright side and age of quarrel. Okay. Of that. I love 10.

I mean, that's the like Pearl Jam. They're both zero skips. Yeah. Perfect. production. Perfect performances. Perfect songs and perfect lyrics. I'll also venture to say that Allison Chains before Lane died. And it's not that I don't like the new stuff because I do like the one record credit quite a bit. The dinosaur one or whatever. The dinosaur one. Yeah, I like that record. Uh, with Lane, no bad releases. No. Zero skips, period. Period.

Dude, the, the Jar Flies EP? Zero skips. Unbelievable. Same production. So it's still perfect. Yeah. So it's still perfect. No, I'm with you 100%.

Big fan. What's next year? Machine Head, burned my eyes. That is actually the craziest one you said. Really? Yeah.

You think it has skips? No. Yes, I do. Production? Production literally incredible. Perfect. No argument there. Sequencing, to me,

Fine. I'm just like, no, I have no argument. Yeah. Yeah. Lyrics. Lyrics.

I mean like, Davidian's like cool. You know, like like, like yeah, he's got cool lyrics and stuff. But I just like, I,

musicianship insane. He's an insane guitar player. Oh yeah. And I know it's not the same record, but like singing and playing on the first song on the blackening is genuinely. Dude, the blackening is incredible. The blackening is very.

Why is it so good? I don't know. I don't know. 10 minutes song, right? the rip and it's so good. But yeah, I don't. I think Burmae has has some skips.

That's, I think that's just a record that didn't. Oh my God. I just remembered another record. What? Sepultura. Chaos A.D. You could see that it was next on my list.

I just, well, I almost said, compare that to Chaos A, you know, and I just like, oh, wait a minute. Production,

songwriting, sequencing, everything. Lyrics. Yeah. It's probably is, it's probably Max and, fifth fucking language. And he's writing the smartest shit I ever read.

You know the heartbeat in the beginning is Zion? It's his son. Or actually, it might be Igor. One of his sons. gorgeous. It's like Igor and Max friends of the show. Writing a record that changed our lives. I can confidently say that there would be no harm's way without chaos AD.

Yeah. And Master Killer. Yeah. those like like when we would write songs even in the early days with like the other two guys who like started the band with us john and john we all loved master killer and all love ksad like that was like a unanimous thing ks ad was maybe the first domino for me the first thing where i was like that's a cool word like grimlock was the first hardcore man which is always so hilarious yeah But KASAD was before that.

Because those songs were around for some reason. And that was the thing where I was like, this is what I like. Where is more of this? So maybe if it wasn't the first domino, it was probably the biggest domino. You know what the first domino was for me? For sure.

It was AFI, for sure. There's a video of them opening with through or bleeding we are one, you know? And like, they're just like going off, People are going insane. I remember Chris had it on his computer, and I was like, what is that? Like, that looks awesome, you know. Yeah.

But yeah, KSED can't. It's perfect. Can't be overstated. Don't, you can't argue that. I got one that maybe doesn't count. Okay. But you tell me as a misfits guy, if you'll allow it.

Oh, gladly. The unreleased 12 hits from hell. Oh, you prefer those versions? Oh, I love it. of them. Interesting. I also think this, the production,

like the production is better. The sequencing is better. The selection of songs is better. Yeah. I wonder if they even put thought into sequencing at that time. Like, I wonder too,

because whatever sequence I have hit me with the track. I think is, here, let me see it. I don't know it off the top of my head. As I have it. Yeah.

Like, I look at this and I go, okay, well, this is like objectively their best collection of songs. Let's see.

Your library. Well, it fits for mail. Halloween. Undeniable. Yeah. Vampire. Vampire. I'm not a huge vampire, but go on there.

I turned into a Martian. Unbelievable. Skoles. Unbelievable. London. Unbelievable. Night of the Living Dead. Incredible.

Horror hotel. Hotel. Amazing. Ghoul's night out. Un-fucking. Believe. Astro zombies. Perfect song.

Where Eagles Dare. Perfect. Violent world. Amazing song. Halloween 2. Way ahead of its time. London Dungeon. London again?

I already said that. Okay. No, it says alternate take London. Oh, cool. Yeah. Halloween 2, really cool ahead of its time. I'm a static age guy and even that kind of doesn't count.

Nah. You know what I mean? It's a comp. It's, well, they both are. Yeah. But it's a comp of songs that were written and then released way later. Right. So you remember the

conversation we had at the beginning where it was like, I got lifeless plague later on and discovered there's another song. Yeah, yeah. Imagine already being a misfits fan and then finding out here's a whole record. I can't even imagine that. I was really listening to famous sponsors earlier in the week or like

last week. Dude. Some might say. The master killer of post-glo And Misfits? Dude, I mean, every song. It's crazy. Every song has a hook. Every song is insane.

Feen Club would get anyone moving. And it's just, it just smells like Team Spirit. Yeah, right. Yeah, it's crazy. So that's my cheating answer. Okay, that's fine. But it's real to some people. It exists.

It's out there. there, you know. Here's a crazy one. Green Day, Duky. All right. I get the, and it's fine. I'm not, like, sitting here listening to it. No. Okay. That's a valid point. Yeah. So I, for some reason, and this isn't even really true, it was just like in my brain. Growing up, you had to, in my like middle school, you were either Big Winni-82 guy or Green Day guy. See, and I hated, I beefed the Blankwant-A-2. And I was all Blankedronty-2. I'm a Gilman guy, you know. It made me poser, you know what I mean?

Yeah. I pose her. So, like, I get it. And don't get me wrong. When I hear the songs, you're like, damn, I know that one. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

So, like, I told, it's the same thing with Nirvana for me. I have never mind on here, but it's like, I don't personally, like, I think they've written better things. Absolutely. But it's tough to argue against the impact. Yes.

But we're talking perfect albums. We are. So I don't need, I really don't need Duky or Nevermind on there as my personal picks. I'll tell you what I do need. What? Far Beyond Driven. You pick that over Vulgar.

Fuck yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'm on board. I'm on board. I just thought you would be a little more of a terrorist. No. I never put vulgar on. I do,

but Farbyn driven is. I love Cowboys. But Farbyon Driven is the one for me. Farbyon Driven or Tran killer what I'm putting on. Okay. Far Beyond Driven was the one where I was like, Oh, this band. is like not, they're not heavy by accident like some thrash bands were. They're a heavy band.

They're like, this shit is fucking hard. We grew into a monster. Yes. They know they're hard and they embrace it rather than hide from it. Yeah. It's, I think it may, someone pointed out, it may have been you honestly that like they got more and more extreme with every release. Yes. The other day, more popular they got the more extreme they got. That's crazy. Fucking crazy. Yeah. Aaron Osborne and I were just in my living room listening to Pantera the other night. Just like playing our favorite Pantera songs. And of course, the first one was Suicide Note 1 and 2. That was my favorite Pantera song. I mean, those on this album, but, you know. No, yeah, yeah. But, but like, dude, have you looked at the Pantera set list from the shows? It's fucking amazing. But the only thing they do, I know why they do it. I get it. I've heard the live record. Play all of domination. Yeah, they don't do. on man that song is so fucking dope

I know and I've seen a video of him playing the solo so I know he can right I think they've looks like they've been playing less songs there's a lot of songs but yeah the set list is crazy and now that new level mouth for war strength beyond strength becoming with throws of rejection

intro I'm broken use my third arm five minutes alone this love yesterday don't mean shit fucking hostile cemetery gates planet caravan walk cow is from hell domination hollow but the only thing that sucks is also is Cemetery Gates, it's not real. It's like that's during the video

like tribute. They don't actually play or sing it. Nobody can play that. Who cares? No, I'm with you. I'm with you. Yeah. It's fine. I love Ferbio. What do you got? It's crazy how long this episode is. It's pretty funny. Okay. Well, we can wrap and get to that.

No, I don't give a fuck. We're going to go through fucking sinking ships and whatever other people fucking is. I got a few more. All right. I got one that I know we both agree on. but this was a consideration when it came to the one skip, even though I don't skip the song. Thriller. Absolutely.

Some say the master killer of music. I thought me. I would, here's the thing. I'm going to say, I think bad guy. I think bad is a better album. I don't disagree, but I think when it comes to all the other considerations. There's the landscape of music as a whole. Yeah.

Yeah. And a lot of the times, the one that is skipped is the duet. is the duet with Paul McCartney. Girl is mine. It's so boring. Dude, you really think so? I don't give a fuck about that song. It's just like,

it's like, Paul, why are you arguing with Michael Jackson? Paul, I'm a lover, not a fighter. Dude, I love that song. That girl is too young for Paul McCartney. So that song is perverted and period. Okay, bad is bad. A ratio bad better. To be fair, that girls probably too,

old for Michael, too. That could be. That could be. Van Halen, 1984. Wow. Yeah, the master killer of music. That's a good pick. Start to finish, production.

Lyrics are silly, but that's what you want. But that's just, yeah. That's the idea. I want to fucking, yeah, I want to feel good, you know? Hmm. I cannot believe sinking ships. Let's talk about rumors.

Is that on your list? I mean, I took it off for some reason, but it's, I mean, it's the master killer of music. Is that 70s rock? Is that what that would be? Yeah, I believe so. I mean, it is like the best music ever. It has one of the quickest skips of all time for me. Which one?

Oh, Daddy. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Get the fuck out. But everything else. Everything else is so good that it's like, oh, even don't stop. I could, I could, I would, I would maybe pay a monthly subscription to never hear don't stop thinking about tomorrow again. Yeah.

Yeah. But everything else. Yeah, yeah. But that's just because you've heard it a thousand times and Bill Clinton used it on this campaign. It's just like whatever. He was thinking about the old sucky-sucky, sucky-sucky he was getting tomorrow. I am cutting that out for sure. Yeah, you can't say that anymore.

You can't say sucking, so again. I got a crazy one for you. I want the controversy. I think the controversy ones are more interesting. It's just like, why am I saying this? You know, why is this white man saying paramour brand new eyes is a master killer tear music, you know? But it is. Production sequencing.

What's the cover? The butterfly. The butterfly. Okay, okay. a great record. It's crazy. It's crazy. She is those honkeys were, they snapped with that one. She's probably pound for pound the most talented person. Of our generation. In like in our world

at all, like it's unfucking believable. Yeah, she is a genius. Quite literally and so talented. Yeah. Do you like any hip hop? I like Elmatic and Yeah I like onyx

Back to fuck up a lot I like bone thugs A lot I just I realize that we're like Like we're not talking about hip hop at all And I'm sure We're staying in our lane a little bit But it's just yeah

It's just not my thing That's not our business You know That's that's it's not We are not the qualified Yeah It's not up to us to say No

Liquid Swords isn't Master killer. Like that's, I don't, I have no stake in that fight therefore. You tell us what you think. You know? Yeah.

It is what it is. Now what I do have a say on is Jimmy 8 World Bleed American being the master killer of early 2000s. God. Are you kidding me? No skips. What's your track?

For me, it's obvious. What? Praise chorus. Can't beat it. I love, I mean, as sickening as it is, I love Hear You Me. Oh, really? Yeah. Also, what does it call?

Gets it faster? Get it faster? I'm not. Ow. Oh. How. Dude, praise chorus, after the Crimson and Closed apart, and it goes back to the I'm on my way, and it gets open D.

Oh, my God. Oh. Unreal. Perfect right. Perfect right. Front of back. Master killer of early 2000s post emo, Arizona rock.

What do you got for me? I'm winging it now. So I've given you all of mine. Okay, I got... Keep going. Five more. Okay, perfect. It makes me think of others,

so it's like, it's valid. I interestingly have not set a single youth crew band because I realize that youth crew is not the master's, killer of subcultural. None of it is master killer tier, is the truth. That is the, well, floor punch might be, but I don't know if you can really call that youth crew.

You can. Yeah, no, I mean, I wouldn't. It's so hateful and awesome, you know? Yeah, yeah. I think youth crew is very early youth today was to. Come on, but it's still, there was still like a aspect of it. Where floor punches, fuck you.

You know? Yeah. I get it. Tears for Fears. Songs. From the big fucking charity. Holy shit. No skips. That's another band where you'll listen to that record and go,

oh, I know all of these songs because it was in a thousand movies. Yeah. Dude. It sounds like a compilation of the best songs ever, but it's just an album. It's just their record. Yeah. It's crazy. Wow.

That's a great pick. That might be your best, like, I didn't even think about it. That you said. That might be my favorite selection. This one might, I mean, this is modern, but it's postal service give up, dude. I feel I must interject here. You're getting carried away here. I mean, sorry for your love.

On these. Bing, ding, and gaps in here. I'm going to the fucking 10th anniversary thing. Or 10th. It's got to be more than that. 20, 20, yeah. You'll cry like a little baby. Oh, when they,

play that, it better be Jenny Lewis. Who does it? Van Nuys fucking legend. Oh, is she from Van Nuys? Yes, dude. Yeah. I... Come on.

Keep going. No, I had one, and I lost it, but keep going. Trevor Jones and Randy Edelman, the last of the Mohican score. Dude, Elkhunt. You're not beaten Elkhut. It's the master killer of movie scores. B'n-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d- It's perfect. It is quite literally perfect. It is the master killer of movie scores.

It's very interesting to me that someone who writes scores can, I mean, when we were in Florida, and you showed me the 10-minute version of the podcast. Pirates of the Caribbean song. It's amazing to me that, like you said, at the beginning of the Conrad, that they can take one riff and make you see things. Yeah. Like they put you there. There's a visual aspect to the sounds that they give to.

Unbelievable. And that's why music is so important in this visual media. Outstanding. I love that. Oh, I do have one. I remember the one I was thinking of. Hit me. And I think you agree.

We bonded over this once. Depeche Mode Violator Oh How dare I forget that Dude You had something to hide Should have hidden it Something that was pointed out to me

Dude unbelievable They put that record out 10 years into the career I pointed that out to you pointed that out to me That made me That was like hey don't give up Because Depeche Mode was 10 years in When Violator came out

straight up. Don't give up. And that goes to my understanding of what the master killer tier is. Like that's sea changing. That has an impact. The art, the vibe, the production. Everything. Yeah, I'm with you.

This is maybe the only modern hardcore record I'm putting in. Okay. And I've got some context. Okay. It's King Nine scared to death. Okay. when you see them it makes sense it really like they're playing they could play this record start to finish anywhere and a few hundred people would be there like it was the like it came out

yesterday same for master killer i think it has parallels to master killer in the like ethos of the songs start to finish sure lyrical content the the sequencing, the production's amazing. The musicianship is, it's like the, the guys that are, are there perfect at their thing. They can play this record forever only, as much as I like Death Rattle.

I love it. I think it's like one of the best close casket records, as I said in last week's episode. Scared to Death is, and arguably, with some bias, the master killer of the, of the 2010s.

Ooh, okay, interesting asteric. I like that. I'll put my 2000s ones, just get them out of the way because I think they're probably obvious, but ill blood, first terror RLP, one with the underdogs, I think is like,

I would say one of the underdogs to me, well, one with the underdogs. and Hunter Demons self-titled are the master killers of the 2000s. James and I were just talking about the self-title 100-deans record.

It's... That has quite literally zero skips. And that is a dense record. Yes. Riffs production. Yes. Oh, man. It's the master killer of the 2000s. I love,

like, genuinely adore the fact that they were kind of one band with Bruce and then another band with Pete kind of just like stylistically and song right it's like Bruce in the eyes of Lord is this fucking perfect dark scary piece of music you know for for different reasons than self-title is scary yeah yeah and then self-titled is this like modernized melodic opus and it's it's it really is two completely different perfect bands Yeah.

That, and like both of those sonic experiences shaped me as a musician, as a songwriter, everything. Like they shaped what I want from hard music. When that, when the second record came out, the self-title came out, we listened to it constantly. Because it had all the stuff that I wanted at the time. It had sing-along parts from the video. It, like, every aspect of what I wanted out of heavy music at that point in my life. and still today was all on that record. And sequencing.

Dude. Crazy. Crazy. Perfect opener into the perfect next song, into the perfect next song. Danik, da, d'an, lae, de, de, lae, de, de, de, de, de, de, de, de, de, de, de, de, de, the, both of those records, and self-title are, like, the guy, those, they mean what they are saying. There's no bullshit. Provably.

I know you, Bruce is listening. right now. I want them to know how we feel. Okay. Yeah. So take that, Bruce. What a band. One of the greats. That's a perfect discography. Perfect discography. Never did a bad thing. My last submission would be warning, watching from a distance. Dude, I got into warning because of you guys, you and your brother. And I believe that's the one that I know. It's the one. It's the one. Yeah. Okay. It is perfect start to finish. Yeah, talk about it. Production.

Sequencing, there's five songs, but it's an hour long. Right. But each song is like brilliantly structured around a bridge that absolutely demolishes you. Yeah. Destroes you. The lyrics are like the most profoundly personal things you've ever heard. The footprints bridge, I think, is the best bridge ever written by a musician. Ever?

Ever. Wow. Any genre, any band, any song. It's warning footprints. Best bridge ever. Wow. I'm surprised you didn't say Toto. I don't think a single Toto record is thoroughly perfect.

Oh, fair enough. Fair enough. We're talking to, I think, on a, like, hits. Yeah, hits are crazy. Hold the line, Rosanna, Africa, I think are all on four. I think it's all. I don't think Hold the Line is, but I think Rosanna and Africa are on four. I mean, that's crazy.

Yeah, it's insane. And I mean, as Van Nuys legends, I respect them. You know, it's Paul Abdul Toto got tape. That's what we got, you know. And Jenny Lewis. Yeah, Hold the Line was self-titled. Oh, interesting. Africa and Rosanna were one record.

That man reinvented the shuffle beat as like the second single. Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah. Crazy. All the way. And then they played on Thriller because there's nobody better than that. It's unbelievable.

I'm trying to think if there's any one, bitch. There anyone were forgetting, like any major records for you that you're forgetting. Why don't we go through the user submissions now and see what we might have missed? There's about 500 responses to this. Really? Yes. Which is too many. That's far too many.

The first one was sinking ships that I see here. And I can't believe it. Do you know any of those sinking ships guys? No. And I'm sure one of them was in Black Breath, who is fucking incredible. Black Breath. Loveliest fellas. But I have to imagine even sinking ships is like, Master Killer guys.

come on. Yeah. You know? I'm talking, I'm talking Van Halen, 1984. Yeah. We said thriller and rumors.

Thriller. That's like, I, singing chips, please don't take this as disrespect. But we wouldn't put our own bands. No.

Anywhere near that. Anywhere near this. Okay. What do we got here? What's people are saying? Perseverance. No heroes. Dude,

I love perseverance, but all the way through. It's a long record. It's a long record. It's damn near perfect. I don't think the productions is good as satisfaction. No. That's one box unticked, you know?

I think Rise is better. I think it's a better record. It's so fucking crazy. Crazy. You didn't say death threat, which is surprising. Peace of security. While I think

man, that's tough call because I would call it the best hardcore record of the 2000s. It came out in the 2000s? Yeah. I don't know timeline of death threat very well. I think it might have been 2000.

Wow. Let's see. I take me all the way. February 15, 2000. Damn, I'm good. Wow, that's almost 23 years ago. Yeah. I guess maybe it has to be,

because I'm saying that nothing else that decade is better than it. You wouldn't put the, you would put Loa's of the Low over it? No. Interesting. I love Loa's Loa. Loved One with the Underwings. Peace and Security is the best hardcore LP from 2000 to 2010.

They would probably agree with you too. Terror? Yeah. I guarantee you they would. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Scott would say fucking hot water music or something is the master killer of music. Sick bastard.

Somebody said downward spiral is the master killer of industrial. How do you feel about that? I don't. I don't agree. Downward spiral is awesome. Is downward spiral the one with the big hit on it? Yeah. Yeah.

It's amazing. But like, it's got skips. It's very long. it's kind of hard to listen to. It's like heavy, but in an emotional way. Somebody said blacklisted, no one deserves to be here more than me. Hmm.

I think that's like the fourth. I like it. I pre-ordered it when it came out. I was in the pit for the fiddle song. I would maybe be my fifth favorite blacklist. Heavier than heaven was. was a paradigm shift, though. Yep.

Absolutely. It's not matched killer to me personally, but it was to many people. I have every color of the LP of it. Even more on, um, Peace on Earth war on stage. Thank you.

Yeah. That was like kind of a paradigm shift too. Top 10 hardcore seven inches ever, maybe. Personally. Wow. But I, I can't,

I can't say, like I loved how hard it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I feel like they got less hard. Mm-hmm. And it was on purpose. It seemed intentional. And that's okay.

You know, so I get it. Radiohead, okay computer. Are you into radio head at all? No, I like creep because I'm white, but that's about it. I don't like radio head at all. Yeah. Patrice O'Neill was right about that. Sorry, guys.

We like it. We're creeps. Leway desperate measures very close. I had a talk with someone recently about leeway in general. And... Do you not care? I did care. And then I just kind of like very organically kind of evaporated from my mind.

Yeah. Maybe I need to revisit. I do love Desper Masures. I think it is the superior album of the big two. Yeah. But I don't know if it's master killer to me. And that's what this is about. I wonder if Marauder would say.

I would think that maybe they would. Yeah. You know, which is like that's an interesting thing too. It is. But it's like... No, no, I'm... Bands outdo their influences every day. Of course. That's how it goes.

You take what you learn from 10 different things and make a better version of it. A bunch of shit I never fucking heard. Let's see, what is it? Say something. Toots and the Maytalls, funky Kingston? Toots and Maidtiles, yeah. That's real?

Yeah, yeah. I thought that was a long month. No, no. No, it's like early... Somebody putting Dugan Nash. on here first. Reggae, Scott, yeah. How about Wolf Sash?

All right. Hey, cool. Oh, man, London calling. Dude, amazing cuts. But I don't think all the way through it's, it's quite. I don't care enough to put that on you.

I do, I do. I'm like a, I'm a punk guy, you know, and British punk is, that's the one. Sure.

No, I agree. But, I'm not putting a fucking clash shirt on, though. No, no, for sure. But like, I could see it being in consideration. I just, I wouldn't put it on there for sure. Crime written society, a lot, a lot of submissions for crime written society.

I think integrity is the best Klebo man. And I just don't think there's any. I think crime ridden society is the best Cleveland record, 100%, but I wouldn't say. The master killer of Cleveland. I don't think that's tough to say because I love, I love seasons. I love systems, but master killer? I can see the argument. Production start to finish.

Start to finish. Yeah. I ain't never finished one of them, you know? I couldn't tell you the last song on Those Who Fair Tomorrow right now. Is it judgment, dear? The first song? I couldn't tell you the closer on any of these four records. Got you.

And to me, that's the mark, you know? I know. I know the last song on any of those records I just, I just talked about. That's a really, that's a cool, like we say a record and you go, what's the last song? That's kind of, I like that.

Okay. It's fun. Coffee is the master killer of beverages. Not true. Like, I saw that and I'm, I was saving my response. You disagree? You ever heard of a little company called Coca-Cola?

Yeah, because it's like track one, Coke Zero. Yeah, because it's like track one, Coke Zero. Yeah. Diet Coke. Track three, Sprite. Cherry Coke. Yeah. You're right.

Come on. It's Coca-Cola. If you had to pick it, though, because I, you know, you can do that with coffee, too. If you had to-track one, Caramel Macchiato. Track two. America. Quad-shot latte. But if you had to pick to get rid of one for the rest of your life, all Coke products

or all coffee products. I'd get rid of Coke. Wow. Yeah. But you ain't having a coffee with pizza, brother. And you have pizza every frack. I'd have a doctor-peper. you know good pivot

great pivot or a fucking Baja blast you know uh kill them all a lot of people say kill them all how do you feel there there are definitely people who are trolling me because they know how I feel about it's just so stupid

it's just it's a it's a really glorify it's not their best record it's not even their fifth best record it's yeah I agree I agree reload is better than kill them all I'm going to say it I said it That is fucking crazy

It's a little bombastic But I really don't like kill them all I get it but it's just like not my thing I'm shocked you didn't say I saves the day record I was okay that was another one I was thinking about Okay For me it's through being cool A lot of people would say stay what you are

But through being cool Stay what you are is three great songs Untrue Like wholeheartedly agree But I think through being I actually think sandwich which you are has zero skips but I think through being cool

has cooler zero skips. The thing is, I don't like that genre of music at all. I think it sucks and I love through being cool. So that should speak volumes. It does.

It's got melody and harmony everywhere and like fast, interesting riffs. The songs are like objectively amazing. Yeah. But they're two very, it's apples and oranges really to compare those two.

records. At your funeral, though, one of the best songs I've ever heard. Crazy. And just because someone's going to say something, I would say from here to an infirmary by Alkaline Trillo is my Alcline Trudeau. Do you think it's Master Kielder's here? Absolutely. Especially You know I can't even. In like Chicago too. Yeah. Yeah. Well, speaking of Chicago, a lot of people put, take this to your grave. How do you feel? Fall Out Boy.

I vividly remember when from under the cork tree came out. And that was a nuclear bomb. Right. And that was all, dude, that was all anyone listened to every walk of life. Every single person was listening to that record. So I like, take this to your grave. But from under the cork tree is, is their master killer for sure. What I say, yeah, it is.

although there's a couple, there's a couple skips. Not going to lie. But yeah, that was like a big deal. In and out of hardcore, like whatever. Everyone was like on that,

that bandwagon. Beach Boys Pet Sounds had a lot of that. I love Pet Sounds. It's very tough to argue against that. It's one of those things where you're just kind of like, it's like dark side of the moon where you're just kind of like, yeah, I guess so. Like I can't.

If I was at the mall and they were playing PetSound start to finish, I'd be like, damn, I know this one. Yeah. Damn, that's on this. Damn, I don't know that one. It's, it's, it's, the songs are bigger than the album. So you don't think about it. But the fact that that is an album is kind of insane. Are you an ACDC guy at all?

Fuck no. So I'm not even a little bit either, but that's another, you know back in black. Of course. It's like another one of those where it's like, oh, I know. 80% and that's crazy because that's second singer. Yeah, right. Yeah. Crazy.

Unbelievable. Yeah. Sounds the same. We got we got third eye blind self-title a lot. Couple skips. A couple skips. Couple skips. I like confident skips. Yeah. Like a couple hits. Couple hits. But when I'm not putting it on to finish it.

I'm putting on to, I put narcolepsy something else. And then I go back to master killer, you know. I go back to where I belong. And I go back to where I'm called, you know, where I'm respected. This is interesting. Bringing it down.

I have mixed feelings on Judge as an adult man. And after the thing that you and I saw in Richmond once. Yeah, but this is about the record. I know, I know, I know, I know. But I can't help it. Sure. You still, but then after that. Dude, AF doing

Yeah. Live at CBG. We just started to start to back. Yeah. I'm surprised you didn't say an AF record actually. It's, I'm torn because like... Or Madball.

I love both bands basically their entire discography. But I would say one voice is their best record. But is it? I don't think it's necessarily a master killer tier. Yeah.

I would say, set it off or like hold it down are are pretty much perfect hardcore records. I'm not. I don't think that they're, I don't think they're better than Master's Killer. And it's like, again, there's different scales that I have to judge these.

I agree with you. Because this is a, this is the kind of thing where I'm saying, remove yourself from hardcore and what you know about this. And look at the song. The product. The product as a whole. I will say a small caveat.

I think Can't Stop, One Stop is possibly the best hardcore song ever written. It's got everything. And it's so fast. And it's like under two minutes. Yeah, it's crazy. Front to back lyrics. It's got fast part, sing-along part, heavy part, scary lyrics. Like, calm the fuck on.

Yeah. Amazing song. A lot of crazy stuff, man. This guy sent a big note. So I want to read it because he put a lot of time into it. American football. LP one. I don't know shit about that shit. Illinois.

So is it good? It's not my, it's like straight up emo, very guitary emo. It's not really my thing. The, the dude Mike, who was in it and then who did Owen is like incredibly talented, crazy guitar player. Yeah. But yeah, it's not really it. And then he put the dying fetus destroy the opposition as the next thing. Which like, I'm not going to argue against that.

But I don't think it's their best. record. It's maybe the classic record. You think Rain Supreme is? I think Rain Supreme is the best piece of music that they wrote. Yeah. Earl's sweatshirt and a bunch of letters. No idea. Frank Ocean blonde. Never really People fucking love Frank Ocean. I've only heard a potato flew around my room.

That's what I know. Yeah, absolutely. And then he put God's hate, God's hate. So thanks for that. What a guy. Again, can't. Champ. Can't comment. Well, it's just like, it's just like, no. That's not, that's not for me to talk about, you know?

You know what? It would be a good, so actually, you answered it. The most recent record that you would say is that tier is the King Nine record. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And just in terms of like the legacy that it's left behind. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Have heart songs to scream at my son, he said. That's not the name of that record. that's what I've called it for 15 years. I can't call it anything else. Hot Mulligan, you'll be fine? What the fuck is that?

That's a genre of music that I don't know at all. What is that? It's, um... Hot Mulligan? Yeah, it's like a kind of poppy, punky-ish stuff. You'd have to, you'd have to zell me, brother. Oh, I thought of one. That made me think of one.

And I mean this with no hyperbole. I cannot believe this record. Citizen Youth. Oh, okay. I fucking love that record. Front to back, not a single skip. There's a hook in every single song. Musicians hit production.

Matt's singing is incredible. Matt is cool. Matt is one of the most talented people of our. Straight up. Of our era. It's not fair. It's crazy. Annie's jacked.

Annie's jacked. So like literally pick one. My God, it's not fair at all. Pick one. I resent that. Matt. I think you should get fat. And then a bunch of shit that I don't agree with.

So I'm going to exit out. Asap for trap lord. Honestly, maybe. I just don't know. It kicks ass. Biohazard State of the World Address. Interesting. Yeah, I noticed you didn't say a biohazard record.

I thought for sure that would have been. That would be the closest of the three. If I had to put you together like some, kind of monster. It would be typo, Marauder, life of agony, biohazard. Those are your four

parts. Like, do you think those are the four things I like the most? Or just that's how you describe? When it comes to like that era of music, that kind of music, heavy music, I thought, basically what I'm saying is I thought that biohazer would have been

much higher on your list. No, I would do like a dying fetus over a biohazarder. I would do so I would do Sepultero over by a hundred Sepultero my Ks AD might be number three on my entire it's insane yeah um what's better rumors or chaos AD yeah 100% uh I killed the prom queen somebody said yeah keep on scrolling well you shouldn't have done that I think cryptopsie nonsile was is a great pick I think something that that people need to be aware of too is we're answering these without having really explained the question.

Yeah. So if we're just like blowing past them, it's because... I'm saying what do you think is as good as what I think is the best thing. Right. Right. So we're being, we're being kind of like, ugh about it because we didn't really nuance that. There's only so many characters in a tweet. Yeah, exactly. American Nightmare background music. At the time... Paradigm. Yeah, 1,000%. I,000%. I, Personally, and this is no disrespect, I just don't think it holds up quite as well. I think the carry-on LP holds up better. Yeah.

I just, that's just kind of, I've heard of, I've gone back. Production-wise, it's kind of hard to hear. There's something weird with the kick. Like, I just, I don't really know. But it's impact, it's art, uh, the lyrics, undeniable. the fucking A-N hoodie.

Good Lord. Change the world. Unbelievable. Somebody said Great Melancho by ICP for Horror Corps. The Great Melancho. And energy by Op Ivy for Skopunk. I know Mac Miller's listening to this going, what?

Yeah. You know why Op Ivy is definitively the best scop hand ever? Why? Zero horns. That's so cool. I love a horn. A fuck a horn, dude. Are you a Thursday guy?

No. A lot of people put Thursday full collapse in here. Cool. I prefer. I'm more of a Friday, man. Bitter and climate fear. I could see that being some people's master killer. I really can.

Of like that, that decade. That era, that region. Absolutely. I can see that for sure. I don't think. any of them would agree. But I could see it. Yeah.

I could see. Yeah, I don't know. It's, it is, it was a paradigm shift. It's hard to argue. I mean, no real skips.

Production's crazy. Lyrics are amazing. Master Killers. Yeah. Do you think a TUI record is Master Killer Tier? In a different way. Now,

wait a minute. You just opened a whole new Yeah, I don't know how to describe it. Uh, I wouldn't say there's skips. Maybe they can't. TUI is one of those things where, like I didn't put typo, you know?

I didn't put my favorite band on that list. But I think TUI is one of those things where they are a once in five generations type band, where you could argue that the discography as a whole is, is Master Killer Tier. Interesting. Okay. It's tough to pinpoint a record when I like them all. And I think the production is good on all of them.

The lyrics are good on all. The lyrics are fucking crazy. Yeah. That was like, I think that that was kind of what made it work so quickly. The lyrics being unique. And he's like, I'm cold all the time. I'm cold. And they're like, there were, there were callbacks.

it's fucking crazy I'm fucking freezing once in a once in five generation band trapped and drag ah I have one actually I'm trying to decide so for me it's it's between rain and blood and south of heaven

rain and blood I don't I have that on my list I don't know why I didn't say it it's like at the top I just skipped it because we were talking about other things even though I'm a huge obvious huge Metallica guy I think rain and blood is the best metal record best threat like not even just thrash metal yeah yo showing like raining blood the song to regular people

yeah they hear the intro they're like this shit's hard you know they don't know what that means and they know it's hard yeah it transcended everything that's an unbelievable record even outside of like the obvious ones Jesus saves altar of sacrifice. Yeah. Peace by peace. Yeah. Goodbye to the gallows by Amir. What's next?

Suffocation peers from within. One of my favorite death metal albums ever. But the start to back Sonic experience is what this is about. You know? Yeah. So I don't know that this adds that. I got you. I got you.

one of the greatest guitar tones ever. Maybe the greatest recorded chug in the history of music. The greatest recorded Palm Mute ever on Pierce from Within. Would you say prone mortal form is?

There's a couple skips. But again, production. You're being fair. You're being fair. The production. Productions. And the production is untouchable. Could never be replicated. And the performance.

The sequencing is amazing. but there's like a skip right off the bat. Which song? And the second song, I skip every time. But I, it's near perfect. And it's, I'm,

I say that while being named after a song, you know, it's, it is obviously influenced me in more ways than most other bands. So that's like, I'm being, I'm being as real as it gets here. Yeah, yeah.

I didn't put typo and I didn't put only a witness on here. Two of the most important. things in the world to me. The aside Once Upon the Cross couple skips. I actively didn't put this on. But again, one of my favorite deathment albums ever.

A couple of the best. And it shows. You won't get it big time. Another kill them all. It's crazy. That's crazy. Guys, no. It's not even close.

They weren't them yet. They weren't them yet. They were still trying to be like New Wave of British heavy metal. It's crazy. Come on. Start today. What do you think? I love start today.

And with the exception of turning point, Gorilla Biscuits were for sure, I mean, Walter's a wizard. They were for sure a league above every other band of that ilk, minus turning point, who were a little later. Some of these things are so crazy that I don't even want to say to them. It could be Master Killer Tier, honestly. I could, I could, I could accept the argument. I don't think personally, I would say that.

But it could be. That's a good fucking record. Dude, somebody put Swamp Thing. That's crazy. Swamp thing. Guys. Somebody put Axis. Show your greed.

Master Killer. Like the, the, we're putting Master Killer above satisfaction. I'm saying Master Killer is as good as. thriller and you're giving me swamp thing and like that's that's not even that can't be perceived as disrespectful to swamp thing no of course not it's it's thriller yeah master killer is the thriller of metallic art form music but honestly be real here folks guys grow up but it's also like kind of not because you would skip a song on thriller think about that yeah master killer better than Thriller.

It's what I'm saying. Master Thriller. God damn it. Shit. Even Hill Blood, which I love start to finish. I don't, I wouldn't say as Master Killer Tier.

I would. I would confidently say that. That's and I get that. Yeah. But see, like it wasn't, it wasn't a gateway record for me. You know?

I already liked what they liked. Yeah. See, so there you go. I was youth crew guy But I wasn't into New York hardcore yet Right I was right there

I was next door Same neighborhood Of course But I just didn't I wasn't aware of killing time yet I wasn't aware of Marauder yet I think it's an incredible Hardcore record that

That influenced so many things And defined a decade That's what we're talking about it It is But master killer Yeah Yeah master killer Oh

This could be nine hours long. What's your favorite? What's your favorite ringworm record? I almost said what's your favorite marauder record? Record? Yeah, your favorite ringworm record. Earth This Pain is my favorite record. I think a lot of the, I think the hardest one is justice replaced by revenge.

Absolutely correct. I think the promise is. Production? Production is. Actually. the production is booty, dude. Booty cheeks. How about the production on the demo, though?

Way better. It's incredible. Way better. It's perfect. Yeah, I don't know what happened there. It went from good to booty cheeks. If I were to put on a ringworm record right now, it would be justice for sure. I've committed war crimes to,

Both, what could we consider, like, biological warfare to both birth is pain and justice replaced by revenge? The songs? The song, yeah. So I accept either answer. Infiltrate, Destroy, Rebuild by CK.Y. I don't know enough about the, I don't hate on CKY. I don't either. They wrote, I mean, the best riff ever is the one, you know?

Dude, we were talking about, oh, never mind. I already talked about how. Nick made the comparison of the One Saves Today song to. That na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-n-na-n-a. I mean, that riff is fucking crazy. It's amazing. Jane Doe, one with the underdogs, Franks, Cream.

Keepers of the Fate. But Born and Land Hard production is... It's wild. Crazy. One of the scariest. Yeah. Scary production. That's a difficult.

That's a difficult thing to do. I might put a mortal light heart as master killer cheer. I definitely have one that you're going to hate. But you know I'm not alone in this. But white ponies up there. Kill yourself. Manscape.com.

Oh, we should do that. We will. No, we got to put it in the middle. That's going to be funny when they've already heard it. Like somebody said acts to fall. And like, I don't have an argument against that. Yeah. Well, Converge, their batting average is really crazy.

It's insane. It's really crazy. Yeah. So I can't argue against that because production, sequence, songs, don't know any lyrics. So I don't know. The one I know is incredible. So. Yeah, true.

Good point. Yeah, it's very good. Refuse the shape of punk to come. I know people really love that. Yeah, people love that stuff. I think there's cooler. You know the TikTok with the TikTok trend right now

with the fart over the like beat? Yeah. Where it's like where's like? Yeah. Where's the megaphone? That's how I feel about refuse. In reality,

the main thing to take away from this that Bloop 24 says is that hard lore is the matter. Astro Killer of podcast. We know this. Objected. Yeah. So thank you so much.

Catchphrases. Production. merch. The big three, they would say. I'm just doing one last scan. Yeah, do a last scan. Try to find a big. I feel like we're forgetting something.

I'm sure we're forgetting dozens. But I feel like we're forgetting like a major something. Break down the walls. Would you say that? You almost put. that, right? I almost put Utha Today. I don't think, I think there are skips on breakdown walls.

Production, unreal. For what that record is, it's perfect. It sounds crazy. Yeah, and that was Don Fury. Yeah. Um, yeah, I don't know. I, I think there's other stuff I like more.

I love, youth today is is my favorite trade edge man. They're perfect, like, I'm crazy about them. But that doesn't, this is me doing your typo thing, where I can say, like, they didn't put anything out that is like that. They did do paradigm shifts. They had a music video in the 80s, like crazy stuff. Yeah.

But I just don't think, you can't compare the performances on any of their records to 30 seconds anywhere on MasterKiller. Right. Oh. Just two different things. Well said. That was very honest to be, you know. What about in terms of the crowbar discog?

I love crowbar. What's your favorite crowbar record? Probably I said, that's what Aaron said when we were talking about this. I think I'm a broken glass guy. It's a lot harder. Yeah. You like it harder? I like a balance of, like you get planets collide and to carry the load fucking back.

to back. I mean, Planets Collide is my favorite song. And then right before that is the hardest breakdown

maybe ever written. Planets Collide might be one of my favorite songs ever. Yeah, it's like I got Lana, my wife, my non-hard music

wife into Coralbara with Planets Collide. Yeah. Now she's into the hole to Scott. Nice. Opposite of December. See,

that was so never my shit. Same. Chris might say that. Chris, Chris likes poison the well. You know what I already liked that I could, that made me like not really care? Terror.

Master killer. So it's hard to, it's hard to argue for it. Wow. Pillars of ivory. Master killer was my ups for December. Pillars of ivory. Somebody put that?

No, no, no, what I'm saying is, it's like, the phrase, a pillar of ivory. It's just like,

you were already living in this. Yeah, I was there. Grand place. I was there. I'm out here. I think that's about, ooh,

I just got the chills looking at the sinking ships one again. You got the CBGP's. I got the CBGs real bad. God, no dis the sinking ships, man. No, we don't know them. I don't know them at all.

I'm not a melodic hardcore guy to begin with. So, like, I was clearly never their target demo, you know? I saw them 10 times. All my friends had the hoodie. Mm.

But Master Killer. Yeah, we're talking, we're talking about the guy, Some might say Master Killer is the Godfather of heavy music. Gorgeous as spoken. Vice versa as well. Gorgeous is good.

Some might say Godfather is the Master Killer of Cinema. That's, I would, I might say that. So I think that's. That puts it into perspective for me. That's it. And that's where we wrap this, this very long episode. Very long, but remember we had the, Oh, right, but that was surprising.

I mean, it's still over two hours, so we hope you enjoyed this, this very different thing for us. Um, we, this is what we're all about, you know? Yeah. You're, this is the,

this is the boys shooting the shit about their favorite things. Well, we got brought back, straight back into music, you know, the way it should, the way it should be. That's right. And this is something that like,

we do this on tour every day. Every single. Every day. Um, so this is, this is a story from tour. because this conversation has been had. I've done this same thing with Sean Martin at some point,

and he agrees with everything I've said today, probably. When the first day of tour, when Sean joined Twitch and Tunes, I put Faith No More Angel Dust on. And I was driving, and he was in the front seat, and he was like, is this angel there? And I was like, yeah. I was afraid he was going to be like, turn the shit off or something because, like,

and he's like, this is like one of the best records of all time. This was day one of being friends with Sean. on basically. Really? It was like, we're going to be just fine. It was very cool. So,

wow, Sean Martin agrees, then you can't disagree. And that's how it works. Master Killer is the master killer of master killer. Hardlore is the master killer of master killer. Thank you for listening. See you next week.

Bye. Bye.