HardLore - Scott Vogel (Terror)

Starting point is 00:00:00 Subscribe to the all-new Hardlore Patreon now for early ad-free access to every episode and an exclusive episode every month. Doing tours with barricades as a hardcore band, which is not easy, but you have found ways to defeat. You have defeated the barricade. You book a terror show and you want a band called Terror and God's Hate and Friad, and you want the money of the people coming to see these bands, but you don't want these bands to have their show. It's like that really bothers me. Welcome.

Starting point is 00:00:57 It's Hardlark Time. How are you, Bo? Doing very well today, Colin. How are you? Fantastic. Talk about an all-timer we've got right now. Often requested. Often requested, even by us.

Starting point is 00:01:12 So this is truly a big day, a big week, special episode as, now, Scott, you're going to have to bear with me for this. I know you're not going to like what I'm. about to say. Oh, no. The front man of whom we consistently on the show say is the best hardcore band of all time. Terror, please welcome. Ladies and gentlemen, Scott Bowdo. Thank you for having me. And I do hear you say that you guys say that sometimes. And I think I always text you. Thank you. But definitely not something that I hear.

Starting point is 00:01:51 and I don't mentally reject, but thank you for the kind words. And thanks for having me. Hey, it's fine. You know, you got to stay humble. I get it. I understand. You're a humble guy. Man, episodes like this are just kind of like, where to begin?

Starting point is 00:02:12 Yeah, I think we go back in time to use your parlance, Colin. I think we need to go back in time a little bit. I think we start from the top. Yeah. Because, Scott, you're from Buffalo, New York. True. So I want to hear about Buffalo, New York before Scott Vogel was Scott Vogel. I want to hear about you fighting hardcore. I want to hear about the bands that did for you what terror does for us and for others.

Starting point is 00:02:41 Okay. Should I just go off on a rant here about my... Rant me, dude. Rant. Okay. I was actually born. This might be a little confusing in a place called Boston, New York,

Starting point is 00:02:54 which is, if you've been to Buffalo, it's, you know, I think it's the second largest city in New York State. Okay. Second to New York City. But it's a smaller city. Boston is out basically in the woods. Boston, New York is like the two scientists in the lab,

Starting point is 00:03:17 mean, finally. Boston, New York. I'm from Boston. So I'm like, I grew up out in the middle of nowhere. With my, lived with my mom and my two sisters. Try to say things nice. We were, we were poor. My mom took it upon herself.

Starting point is 00:03:41 Crack a cold one. My mom took it upon herself to raise me and my two. sisters and it was uh you know i had a a pretty good life um i went to a catholic school i love sports my mom was pretty cool i would you know i was a troublemaker but nothing too crazy how could you not be in in catholic school in boston you know yes my my uh sit we i just i i don't know what we're going to get into here but i'm not super close to my family and there was when i moved to LA and Tara started, I was really distant from my family. But recently, my mom had me and my two sisters. We got an Airbnb and all hung out together for a weekend. And my sister reminded me of a

Starting point is 00:04:31 time where I was like in front of my house throwing rocks at cars coming by the house. And I lit up a cop car and ran into the woods and they found me. So, you know, doing stuff like this. That's what, that's That's normally the path to hardcore, you know? Right. I would steal alcohol from my mom, like, cooking wine and stuff and hide it in the woods and drink. So even when I was little, like elementary school, I started my alcohol love. How's that going now? Now it's going great.

Starting point is 00:05:11 Terrible for a while. But I think I've conquered the demon. I agree. Hopefully it holds up. Musically, my mom had a record player and she was into like some cool shit like

Starting point is 00:05:30 Lily Nelson, which was kind of cool. I'm trying to think. This wasn't so cool, but I can remember she had the Grease soundtrack. Hey, there's some bangers. I think it was a gatefold. Yeah. Let me take a guess.

Starting point is 00:05:51 She have Carol King's tapestry. Oh, probably. You're right in that. A mom classic. I had a single mom. Same exact thing. Really into sports. I played tons of sports, Catholic school,

Starting point is 00:06:08 troublemakers, sisters, my mom, everything's normal. We moved around a lot. My mom was just like, she was like a dental assistant, anywhere she could get work. You know, like if anyone knows the song, one with the underdogs, it says raised in unemployment lines. I can remember going with my mom to collect unemployment and stuff like that. But at the time, you don't even know. Like, my mom was nice and took care of me.

Starting point is 00:06:35 I didn't really know that we had what we needed. It was fine. We moved around a lot. And one really cool thing that I will say is my mom had this boyfriend named Dave, who he was pretty cool. He would take me to Sabres game. He played softball, and I was like the bat boy for his team. One day he gave me the first two Black Sabbath albums,

Starting point is 00:07:05 the self-titled and paranoid on vinyl, and was like, you're going to like these. So really early, I had those. And then I got into like ACBC Iron Maiden. After that came like Motley Crew, Twisted Sister, stuff like that. What time frame would this be? This is mid-80s, 85, 86. So a big thing that happened in my life was we were moving a lot.

Starting point is 00:07:36 And I, you know, I'd make friends. I never really had trouble making friends. but as a kid, every two years when you're moving, it was pretty brutal on, like, maybe my mental state. Sure. So at a certain point, my mom, she went to her high school reunion, remet a guy from her high school,

Starting point is 00:08:00 and they started dating, and within, like, six months, she's like, we're moving to Houston. Oh, shit. Now, is this Houston, New York? This is the big Houston, H-Town, home with a ghetto boys. So I think, also I should say at this time, I would go stay with my father more in Buffalo every other weekend or something like that, typical divorce. So dad was Buffalo the whole time.

Starting point is 00:08:32 Right. So I think when I was really little, I lived with both of them. they got divorced, stay with my mom, would go see my dad. And my dad, my brother Jay is going to be intrical in a lot of things

Starting point is 00:08:48 that may come up on this. So he's my stepbrother and my father got remarried to his mom. So he's actually my stepbrother, but he's probably the closest member of my family. Sure.

Starting point is 00:09:01 So they get married. He comes into my life. I'm seeing them on the weekends. my mom says we're moving. I lay down the fucking law and say I'm not going. I want to move in with my dad. My dad says, okay. So my sisters and my ma go to Texas.

Starting point is 00:09:19 I move in with my brother Jay, my stepmom, and my father. Wow. Okay. In the suburbs still, but now in Buffalo. Yeah. And my brother, who is actually four months younger than me, gets me into everything. first got me into like run DMC, UTFO, Houdini, like early rap. And then he also gets really into the sex pistol circle jerks, dead milkmen, all that stuff.

Starting point is 00:09:51 So that starts, that's how I get my foot close to hardcore. Okay. So, and I have heard you say, and I think you've publicly said that you're not a punk guy. No. But you love social distortion. What's up with that? Okay. You want the real answer?

Starting point is 00:10:09 Is this a joke? The real answer is, I think maybe part of the reason was I'm down for a good melody. I like someone that can actually sing. So maybe it was they had some melody and it wasn't all like, fuck the world.

Starting point is 00:10:28 I've got a Mohawk. But you love the world and hate Mohawk? I don't know. I don't know. But I will say this. What social distortion did for me was my father recorded on a VCR, another state of mind on night flight, the TV station. For me and my brother.

Starting point is 00:10:57 And I think it was because he knew we like social distortion. What this did. for me was show me minor threat. So this was, so social distortion was my bridge to closer and closer to hardcore. So I saw another state of mind, which anyone that hasn't seen it that's listening to this should check that out. It's social distortion going on tour with youth breed. Right. And it's great. And it's really cool. And maybe that put the bug in my ear all. also wanting to travel and sleep in disgusting places. Very fascinating.

Starting point is 00:11:39 It all adds up. They go and they visit the Discord house and like you see Minor Threat practicing. Right. They do a thing where they walk down the stairs and Minor Threats practicing. It shows and play a show where the mic goes out and the whole crowd sings. So this is probably my first time actually seeing hardcore. And so is that, so Social D did that for you?

Starting point is 00:12:03 I'm not giving it all to them. They helped them. Okay. So tell me about the... My brother did this all. Your brother, with a little help from Socialty, bridge the gap between punk and hardcore. Now you finally, you feel like you found your home.

Starting point is 00:12:21 Tell me about the bands you connected with early. Yes. So you said you found your home. I had gone. I saw like the Dead Milkman. I saw the butthole servers with Jellobi Offer, spoken words, spoken word. I would go to some punk shows with my brother,

Starting point is 00:12:38 but I think part of it was, I just moved there. I haven't really nothing else to do. Also trying to find what I'm going to, who I am in this world. So I tag along to these shows, and I was kind of into it. It was, you know, like,

Starting point is 00:12:55 I don't think I'm very normal and I like the aggression and maybe some elements of it, but it was never like, this is me. Then I saw another state of mind and we went and saw DRI. I guess maybe the first hardcore show I saw will say, or maybe the next one I'll bring up. I'm not sure there's a fine line here. I saw DRI, Gangrene, the Gulu Dals.

Starting point is 00:13:24 And at that show, we got a flyer for seven seconds, hunger artist, and zero talents. So oh now we're getting into some shit. So when I see zero tolerance and this was seven seconds kind of longer hair, not prime, maybe 88. And when I saw zero tolerance, I see these dudes with collegiate stuff. Yeah. Champion hoodies, shaved heads, meaner. Jordan's on.

Starting point is 00:14:00 Yeah, just look at it. Xed up. I probably didn't know what it was. Cool as hell. The energy is different. And I'll say from that day forward, it was over. Wow. Zero tolerance. You heard that guys. Very important band for Scott. Very important band for Buffalo. One of the most underrated in history. Tell me a little bit more about zero tolerance. Scott, let's give them, let's give them their shine here. Okay, so zero tolerance, when I get into hardcore, they're a straight edge band. They just have a demo out, but they are so fucking cool, so good, live. They're very intimidating.

Starting point is 00:14:45 They, I don't know if they're the first, but they're definitely not the first Buffalo band because they had bands before them that they were in. I think they were called third man in before zero tolerance. but they were when I got into hardcore and will always be to me the ground zero center point of what Buffalo is at that point

Starting point is 00:15:12 more on the youth crew tip very you know but a little bit tougher as time went on hair got longer they got more Chromeags influence. They put out a 7-inch on

Starting point is 00:15:30 in effect record. No, no, excuse me. They put out a 7-inch on high-impact records. Which is not the greatest. They were so much better. They just didn't get the right recording. There were so much better than that, but it's cool.

Starting point is 00:15:47 They have a cassette. Maybe for me, they're prime. They have a cassette called Fuel the Fire, I think. Feed the Fiat. fire or fuel the fire? I think it's fuel the fire, right? Fuel fuel the fire. Yeah. And they live show they could, you know, they would open for everybody, killing time, sick of it all.

Starting point is 00:16:09 Every fucking band and they could hold their own. They toured, they toured the country. Uh, they have, if you want some hardcore lore, if you look into this band's story, it, listen, I don't want to. It's like the ultimate what could have been. Ben story. Yes, but also they have a cold as life type story surrounding them with murder and just crazy stuff, just crazy stuff. Anybody that's into

Starting point is 00:16:44 heavy metallic hardcore should really look into zero talents. They're very, very, very underrated. I said in effect, who put out, like the killing time record, the sick of it all record, was going to, I heard rumors that they might do a record with them, which would have been unbelievable.

Starting point is 00:17:09 Yeah. You know, that might not have happened, but we may collectively be able to give the people the zero tolerance that the record that they finally deserve, right? Wink, wink, wink. Boom. Nudge, nudge, together. So zero tolerance was a straight edge band, Scott.

Starting point is 00:17:25 Is that something you ever dabbled in? No. I'm the, I'm closest, I'm closer now than, I can't say than ever. But like I said, I was a child stealing alcohol. Right. I've met there, there was, I think there was a time when I was in despair, so mid-90s where I didn't drink for a while. But I've, you know, I've always smoked weed. I've always drank.

Starting point is 00:17:57 Yeah, sometimes too much. We'll go ahead and say, if you are now, you always fucking work. I am not now, but I haven't been drunk in a long time, and it's wonderful. So ever since I've known you, Scott, you've been big on youth crew and you're from hardcore, which is like very much my favorite thing, yes. Well, I well-placed set for this episode. Was zero tolerance? Is that how you found that kind of music?

Starting point is 00:18:33 Well, they were hard as shit though. But had the look, the vibe, the straight-edge thing. When I first got into hardcore, let's call it in 1988. I went to Home of the Hits, the record store in Buffalo, and I had the minor threat record after seeing another state of mine. The first after, and I had a cassette, a kid gave me that was like victim and pain on one side and don't forget to struggle on the other side, which is amazing. That'll do it.

Starting point is 00:19:06 But the first records I bought were the chain of strength seven inch, the sick of it all seven inch, the side by side seven inch, and another, the no for an answer seven inch. So right when I got into it, revelation was taking a, side by side seven inch. And another, the no for an answer seven inch. So right when I got into it, Revelation was taking off. I think youth crew was taking over. And I mean, all those bands came to Buffalo. I saw Judge over and over again. I saw Gorilla Biscuits. I never saw side by side, but all these bands were coming to Buffalo.

Starting point is 00:19:37 But also, I mean, being in Buffalo in 1988, I saw Rest in Pieces. I saw Slapshot. I saw Vision. I saw verbal assault. Like, every fucking band came here. And you're seeing. you're seeing like in real time hardcore becoming hardcore kind of yes like what we know maybe leaving the victim and pain sound which i love yes yeah and become yeah what modern hardcore

Starting point is 00:20:03 evolved into and stayed and stayed you see the the uh real time evolution of that right how was that you that's i mean that that's those are those your uh the glory days of your life in terms of just like being a fan of first. Yeah, absolutely. A great thing is I didn't know what a guest list was. I didn't know what a backstage was. I didn't know what a set time was. I didn't want, there was no way to know about any of these people. I would just mail order the seven inches. I wouldn't learn. Maybe it would come. Yeah, true. I would listen to all the records. I had my favorites, but nine out of 10, 7 inches I got was really good. And Buffalo had shows all the time.

Starting point is 00:20:54 And the scene here was great. And once I found hardcore, that's all I cared about. Like, I'd have to work jobs. But if I had to work on a Friday night and Judge was playing, I'm quitting my job. I don't care. Me and my brother would get to show. We would take buses, walk to shows. My father would work downtown.

Starting point is 00:21:16 If it worked up at night, sometimes he would drop us off on the side of the highway, which was kind of crazy. Just like we'd have to do anything we could because, you know, we're living 20-minute drive from where we had to get to shows. So we would just go. And we'd also go to, you know, death metal shows in Buffalo. Cannibal Corps was from Buffalo, malevolent creations from Buffalo. Oh, yeah. The dude from Diasides from Niagara Falls. There was death metal shows here all the time.

Starting point is 00:21:46 Wow. You know, I saw violence and slap shot play together. Wow. They would do, like maybe in the early 90s, they would do death metal hardcore shows, and it would be like 800 people. And all we did was just go to shows. And we had already started playing instruments really bad. So naturally, you start a band.

Starting point is 00:22:12 Yeah. That's the next. That's the next stuff. One of those instruments you happened to play Scott, and I didn't know this until very recently, Scott Vogel plays drums. Drummer? Yeah. I've tried and it's gone. I was never that good.

Starting point is 00:22:28 I was never that good, but it's gone. You can hit a dogat-d-d-gat-d-a-bett. Sometimes, like, I'll get behind Nick's drums and try to hit it and it's bad. It's bad. I was going to ask, is that what you did in the first band? Were you the drummer? Yes, early on, I acquired a terrible, terrible drum set. I've said this before on podcast, but like, this is so terrible.

Starting point is 00:22:58 But it's worth repeating because it's pretty fucking funny. We lived on the street of our high school, and I would after school sneak into the music room, throw drums and symbols out the door and cover them with snow. Oh. So I'd steal from the music department. That's awesome. Beautiful. And then at night, when no one's, you know, this is before there's a camera everywhere,

Starting point is 00:23:22 come back, dig it out and I'd have a new symbol or a. Dude, that's so crazy because I did the exact same thing in elementary school with kids Star Wars toys. So that kid never knew where his X-wing went, but it's in my garage right now. So you said you were doing all kinds of jobs between, you know, in your, in your heyday trying to go to these shows. I know one of those jobs was a cab driver. Tell me about your time as a cab driver.

Starting point is 00:23:50 You're a cab driver in Buffalo? Scott, and I'll cut this if you want me to. Can you tell me about something you received as payment for a cab ride one day? I received a very crazy drug that people shouldn't do as a cab patient. Okay. And were,

Starting point is 00:24:15 and were you into that drug for a while? I'm not talking about that. You don't have to cut that, but I'm not talking. Okay. You got Jordan? I don't know. He's got his birds.

Starting point is 00:24:30 I don't know. So your first band you played drums in, tell me about the first band you ever sang it. Okay, so the first man I ever sang in was Slugfest. And this was, this happened so the venue where all these bands played and unless you were like the

Starting point is 00:24:47 chrome bags or bigger uh judge every normal like you know there was certain bands that were bigger but maybe chrome mags or bad religion or some stuff like that everybody played at the river rock cafe which is crazy because now I live

Starting point is 00:25:03 like a two minute drive from it so I drive by it and cherish memories but um blow to kiss and the the the owner's son uh who did who was the sound man booked everything he was the owner was like an old guy who was never there so let's let's just say the owner yeah was this guy john radis and me and my brother were there so much i think we went up to him and we're like do you know anybody that plays drums we want

Starting point is 00:25:34 to start a fucking hardcore band he's like i play drums so we we start a band so the if If Slugfest has a seven-inch out that the singer of Chokehold put out, that it's actually, I don't like to talk about myself like this, but it's pretty good. It's good. It's pretty good. It's absolutely good. For I think it came out on like 92, it's pretty good.

Starting point is 00:25:56 Wow. But I mean, dude, first band you ever sang in. Yes. People still talk about today. Yeah, yeah. If you go back to the demos, though, not so good. And when people think of Slugfest, they think. think of like the drum we had the drummer that went on to be a snapcase and it looks like a

Starting point is 00:26:15 hardcore band five younger kids with hardcore shirts and you know maybe one day why don't you talk to me about snap case real quick wait wait we'll definitely get there but the first iteration of slugfest is me my brother this dude john guy who was like a guy that went to our school but had no idea what Ignostic Front was. Yeah, there's always got to be one in the first. You gotta have one. But then John Radis,

Starting point is 00:26:47 who is probably 10 years older than us, and his friend whose name was Andy, but his name was fuck him. F-U-C-E-M, because he always wore the shirt called Fuck-M. He also played in a Kiss cover band.

Starting point is 00:27:06 Hey. And this is why everyone from Cleveland liked me right away. When Cleveland hated everyone, they liked Slug Fest because we would cover Kiss and blow fire on stage in 1990. So you got Frank real early. Yes. Yes, I did. That makes a lot. Puzzle pieces are falling into place here.

Starting point is 00:27:30 And Snapcase, obviously, Snapcase had a band before Snapcase called Snipecates. Solid State. They were amazing. I think their, Snapcase's original singer, Chris Gallis, was the singer of Solid State. He was great on stage. He was a fucking animal. I think watching him made me say, all right, I need to do this because he was, just go off. Wow. That's cool. In the end, Snapcase kind of, you know, like back then, I like how you're and giggling. But they ultimately kind of killed Slugfest by kind of in a not so cool way, asked our drummer to be in their band.

Starting point is 00:28:19 He couldn't resist because they're on victory taking over the world. And it all worked out. But at the time, I was, yeah, I wasn't happy. I was not happy. Hey, understandable. But that's music now, you know, drummers especially. One door closes, that means another door opens. So what's the band after?

Starting point is 00:28:40 So despair would be next? Right away, I think. Right away. Right away. Talk to me about despair. Despair is... Very dramatic name. Very...

Starting point is 00:28:52 Taken from the conviction seven-inch, who maybe almost is underrated as zero tolerance. But, oh, man. Conviction 7-inch on Watermark, If you like to fucking mosh, get the conviction seven inch on watermark. It's un-fucking believable. It's probably six bucks on discogs right now. Go check it out.

Starting point is 00:29:19 Un-fucking believable. So Buffalo at this time, there's so many bands, so many, you know, kids. And all these bands are like breaking up, lasting, thing, putting out a demo, maybe putting out a 7-inch. This was at a time when Slugfest put out that 7-inch, I was like, this is the coolest thing ever. I'm on vinyl.

Starting point is 00:29:45 So having a 7-inch at that time was kind of a big deal. All these bands are breaking up. So this is just a bunch of kids that kind of hang out. A lot of times we would go to like Denny's and drink coffee all night and just

Starting point is 00:30:00 talk and make zines and just do good, good old, good clean fun, hardcore stuff. And despair kind of comes out of the ashes of a band called Discontent. This is the first time I'm a band with Joe Garlip, who I went on to do with more stuff with after that. Yeah, and we just kind of just, at this point, I'm a little bit old. Slugfest never toured.

Starting point is 00:30:31 Okay. I don't know if we ever even played two shows in a row. Slugfest? Yeah. I mean, we'd play Buffalo. We'd play Erie PA. We'd play in Canada, like Toronto and Hamilton, Rochester, Syracuse, the farthest we ever went is Albany. But I don't know if we ever had a show back to back.

Starting point is 00:30:51 We'd just go to school, play a show. So is despair where your touring life begins? Yeah. I think in Slug Fest, I'm still in high. school. Maybe when despair starts, I'm just graduating high school. As soon as I graduate high school, I leave my father's house, moving with some friends, drive a cab, start doing sick drugs. Going to shows and despair starts. And we're a little bit older. We have a little more contact to do shows.

Starting point is 00:31:34 Yeah. We get on Trust Kill, which was really cool. A cool story while we hear is the despair 7-inch, which is called, I think, 1,000 cries. That is kind of a cool story. So I'm living in this house in Kenmore, just right outside of Buffalo. This is the first house I ever lived in outside by myself. At first, it was with some kind of crazy people from my high school. then they moved out

Starting point is 00:32:01 and so now I'm living with like it's a it's a three bedroom house um so it's me and uh this kid Kurt

Starting point is 00:32:11 um this straight edge vegan kid he's super cool he despair goes and records a seven song demo okay um we're about to put this demo out he's a cart pusher at the supermarket here sure he comes home one day

Starting point is 00:32:29 and he's like like, he's like, I found a purse and a cart. It had $1,000 in it. Can I put out the despair 7-inch? We're like, great. So we give him the, I think, the four best songs, put the other three out on the demo. That's the first despair seven-inch. Josh Truskill is from New Jersey. He's going to school in Syracuse, which is two hours from Buffalo. People from Syracuse are always coming to shows here. We're always going there. Josh starts doing his label. He starts with his zine, starts doing the label. You can see he's going to do it kind of professional. Sure. I don't know if I approached him or he asked me, but he signs, and I say that in quotes. He gets, I don't know the right word. We agree to do a record with Trust Kill, which was

Starting point is 00:33:29 Kind of a really cool thing at that time. Yeah, for sure. That's when the tourie starts. Okay. So this woman from Buffalo paid for the despair seven-inch. This man. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Yes, her purse financed the record.

Starting point is 00:33:44 I hope she's listening to this and knows it went somewhere. Right. It went to a good cause. Positive, for sure. It made art. Yeah. Is it, do you ever think about Scott that after singing in five, six bands throughout your life, that like the fourth one would define you as an artist?

Starting point is 00:34:06 Just Slugfest Despair and Buried Alive all like kind of did some shit and got like almost almost to a good spot and then plummeted. So when it came time after those three bands and when I left Buffalo, I didn't think I was going to do any more music. I was like done. But yeah, I thought I was done. and then I'm sure we'll get to terror, which has been 23 years of, it's been like 21 years of insanity and two years of peace. Yes, yes, yes.

Starting point is 00:34:44 Harmony. Yeah, let's, I don't want to skip over Barrett a lot. Let's get to Barrett a lot. Yes, yes, yes. So Slugfest stops because Tim goes to Snapcase, which at the time I was very, you know, anti-snap case. I can, just like when my mom moved to Texas, I was very not so happy with her. Now I can see it.

Starting point is 00:35:08 She was lonely. She had to do what she had to do. Sure. There's a mom snapcase allegory in here somewhere in here. So despair does this record on Trust Kill. We do some tours. We do some cool stuff. We did a, snapcase gave us a, what do you call it?

Starting point is 00:35:29 like a hey I ruined your band have this tour a boy um a severance package yes we did uh we did a tour with harvest and brothers keeper who else to despair you're out with very very mid 90s hardcore type tour choke hold chokehold took us out that was really cool chokehold and frail if you know who they are yeah so around this time scott just with hardcore in general youth crew is bottoming out youth crew kind of dies

Starting point is 00:36:00 to all the youth crew people deciding their actual musicians which you know like Quicksand is amazing so I'm not

Starting point is 00:36:08 fully dissing but I'll take I can't even say I'll take GB over Quicksand but I'll take you to today

Starting point is 00:36:18 over shelter I'll take underdog over into another but I wonder what what turning point would have done

Starting point is 00:36:24 swimmer's ear is cool, but I wonder what they would have done after, you know? Turning point is so fucking good. Scott, you told me, on the first tour we ever did together, you told me that you remember, and please correct me if I'm misquoting, but you said integrity killed youth crew. I mean, I don't remember saying that, but you saying that, I kind of agree with it. I mean, from where I'm at in Buffalo, maybe Cromag's playing into this too, but I guess they didn't affect that. So I'm seeing all, you know, verbal assault, all these youth crew bands.

Starting point is 00:37:03 Everyone looks nice. Everyone looks happy. Everyone. All of a sudden, integrity shows up. In Buffalo, that 7-inch, everyone, it's kind of like the Firestorm 7-inch. You never, or not even the firest, the All-Out War or Earth Crisis 7-inch. You never really heard anything like that. And then they roll into Buffalo and they just, you know, they're like, and Dwit, every time they, and they, you know, Cleveland's like three hours from here.

Starting point is 00:37:31 So they'd come here every other month. Every time Dwight came, he'd look different. He's evil. They kind of, yeah, maybe, maybe. They changed the game. It kind of like the Earth Crisis. They changed the game a couple years later. Like, there's these bands that come along and maybe integrity.

Starting point is 00:37:52 Killed youth crew, it's possible. Or youth crew, dudes. Killed youth. Yeah. Wow, that's another good theory. I was going to ask about just Earth Crisis and Syracuse in general and the relationship there with Buffalo. So I remember, so there's a band called Framework.

Starting point is 00:38:12 So I'd go, Sarah, I'd say early on Buffalo had a better scene than Syracuse, but Syracuse definitely had a good scene. but whenever Earth Crisis popped off, is that like 93, 94, I don't know, a minute it. Yeah, 92 maybe. Maybe a year before that, that city got really, let's say, organized with the McKegg Flyers, always looking the same. They were starting to bring super awesome packages.

Starting point is 00:38:43 Their local bands were getting better. They had awesome. The kids up there had some really good style of dancing. And I mean, like, this is the time when if I go to a show, I'm dancing for every band from the first band to the last band. I had that much energy and that's just what you did. Syracuse kids had a really cool style of dancing. And the scene just started growing and growing. There was framework, which was Earth Crisis with a different singer, this dude Shane Durge, who was great band.

Starting point is 00:39:19 and then all of a sudden, I remember, Tim Redmond, the drummer of Slugfest, who went on to be in Snapcase, me and him really enjoyed. I'm 51, so it's weird to say this, well, we really like moshing a lot. Oh, I mean, I think you were, that, you are the ultimate testament to our,

Starting point is 00:39:48 our prolific thing of the best moshers make the best bands. I liked moshing. And I went to a show in Syracuse and Ben Reed, the original guitarist of Earth Crisis, who, if you look back at old videos, one of the illest stage presence I've ever seen for a guitarist. This dude would go the fuck off. But at this point, I didn't even know who he was,

Starting point is 00:40:16 this guy. had this cut across this whole face, like a scab across his whole face. And he was like, you know, this is when you'd walk around and sell stuff like person to person. It's like, do you want to buy this seven inch? I had no idea who it was, but I was like, he's a little guy too. So it wasn't like I was intimidated. But he had this crazy cut across his face. I was like, sure.

Starting point is 00:40:37 So I buy this seven inch. I don't know who it is. I go home. This is the Earth Crisis All Out War seven inch. Wow. And Ben Reed, late. Ben Reed is a character. he later told me when we became friends he got that cut from like liberating an animal from a cage do i know

Starting point is 00:40:53 if that's true no but this this guy that's like what we were that's what we would hope they yeah yeah i put on that all out war seven inch and again never heard anything like like the lyrics were so crazy the gang vocals were so crazy carl's delivery was fucking insane and I remember I called Tim Redmond. I was like, you are not going to believe this seven-inch. And I don't know if he borrowed mine or he got his own or whatever. There was a really cool weekend. Like I said, Slugfest never toured, but we did once drive to Detroit.

Starting point is 00:41:36 Earth Crisis came down here. We became friends with them and played Slugfest, played with them in Syracuse. they came down and stayed at Tim's house and they had like a like a Ford escort but not a Ford like a tiny car the whole bands in it I think they used our gear taped on license plates people if people think Earth crisis are nice happy they're troublemakers and they're that's new they're not oh they're kind of crazy I think they used to I think they used to roll around Syracuse and in someone they knew this might not sound good because this involves cheese i i think i heard they used to

Starting point is 00:42:18 roll around syracuse with cheese pizza and roll throw open a door of like a minivan and throw them at like college kids and like wow carl if you're listening could you please confirm the cheese pizza assault it was it was it was it was it was diet dude it was it was it was it was dyes wow that's awesome we did a show in detroit it was uh Slugfest, Cholkold, Earth Crisis. And this is like a, you know, a road trip with those bands at those times. And I remember, like, so many kids rolled, you know, that's probably the first time Earth Crisis and maybe all these bands. Slugfest has a tiny buzz, but Earth Crisis has a huge buzz.

Starting point is 00:43:06 Chokeholds in the middle. All these kids, I remember this is the first. time I saw people from Chicago, like 20 kids from Chicago roll in with straight edge varsity jackets store like all and they all did zines at that time. And I remember, you know, six months later when they all did a zine slug fest and all of them. So I'm like, I'm feeling good about myself. You're getting there. So that's, yeah. But this is so you're telling this as like to hear you talk about what a fan you were of, of what is essentially your contemporaries. is I think that's just like

Starting point is 00:43:46 goes to show that's why you're still around today and still revered and making great songs that you're a fan first and that is like so what it's all about yeah I'm having a like even still today like I got home from Australia like I feel like two weeks ago I can't even imagine what it's like in L.A. or Chicago

Starting point is 00:44:07 there's a show in Buffalo like every fucking day And of course, I'm a firm believer that if you don't support other bands, why the fuck should people support you? And I'm always, you know, of course I like to hear good music and music that gets stuck in my head and music that makes me goosebumps. But you could be the most awesome musician and write a song that sounds exactly like Turning Point. but if your band is all these people, you know, if I live in Buffalo and I don't know anyone in your band, I'm not going to support that as much as the five kids I see at every show going off for every band and their band kind of sucks. Like that's always the way I've thought about things.

Starting point is 00:44:55 So I just, you know, there are days when I just want to sit home and watch a hockey game. But there's this thing in the back of my head that's like, dude, this is, This is your family. This is your world. You know, and I'm 51. Sometimes I go to shows now and there's like mostly 17 year olds, 22 year olds, a couple 30 year olds. There's a couple people like five years younger than me.

Starting point is 00:45:26 And I'm like, oh, man, I don't want to be a fucking weirdo. And then I'm like, ah, you're not a fucking weirdo. You're here for the right reasons. Yeah, yeah, of course. You're the best one. You're the singer the best one. Scott, you, you rattled, I don't, I don't think I've ever talked about this on the show, but he rattled something in my head with the, the Chicago varsity jackets used to be color-coded.

Starting point is 00:45:46 If you had a black one, you lived in the city. If you had a blue one, you were from an area. Did you say blue? What'd you say? Did you say blue? Blue was like suburbs or Juliet, I think. And then green was Elgin. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:45:59 Like they all had color colds. It was cool. I think like Jim and Terry would be the people I would see. and I think they were blue. They were blue. Yeah, that's the suburbs. That's Naperville. Yeah, that's fucking awesome.

Starting point is 00:46:11 I want to ask, because we talk about this a lot, Scott. During this time, what is it like touring? Like, are you, is it Atlas payphone called the number that you have? Can I drop a Chicago gem before I get to that? Please. So anyone listening, there's a girl from Chicago named Carrie, who, in my mind,

Starting point is 00:46:35 is, I don't think she goes to shows too much anymore, but for years she had banned stayed her house. She always was at shows, the coolest person. This girl was so fucking core that she would X up, and I've never been straight edge, but I love this. She would X up and go to high school. And she exed up so much every day she got ink poisoning and had a stop because she would just go into her school with probably normal people being like, Who's this fucking wacko with X's on our hands? Now that's core. That's what it's all about.

Starting point is 00:47:11 I used to X up and go to school. Okay. Touring when I started touring. So I think my first tours would be 95, 96. I think the one with Brothers Keeper and Harvest, I think maybe Josh Grabelle. Maybe Mike's ski booked that. But I mean, the despair hate breed tour, me and Joste booked that whole thing and it was a full U.S. tour. We both just used our contacts and put that together.

Starting point is 00:47:43 And it's just like, yes, a dialer. No guarantees. It was just basically like call someone you know. A lot of times, you know, like if it was Philly, I'm hitting up turmoil. You know, it's a lot of times someone. another band. There's never any money talk. There's never any, how many people are going to be there. What's the bill? What time are we playing? It's just, can you do a shit? Not even what the venue is. It's just, can you do a show? Like, the first, the first despair van I ever bought,

Starting point is 00:48:23 it made one road trip to, I think it's New Britain, Connecticut, where Jocelyn was booking shows at this skate park. Bristol. Bristol skate park, yes. Oh. Is there where the videos from? The video? There were many videos from there, but that wasn't where the satisfaction release was. Despair plays the Bristol skate park. The thing won't start.

Starting point is 00:48:50 We took off the serial number or whatever you could, the VIN number. We popped it off. I gave the keys to Jasta. we went home in a rider truck and I think Josta was like that van I got it looked at there's no way that things ever going anywhere and I don't know what happened maybe it still lives somewhere in Connecticut but it was just maps like physical maps yeah getting lost a lot I just think about how crazy the world was like let's say like Patrick from from Reaper records this is one One of my good friends that I met at a hardcore festival, at a New Bedford Festival in Massachusetts, we became friends despair toured in Europe.

Starting point is 00:49:41 I think he came with as part of that. And it became like a really close friend. And he would come to Buffalo and visit sometimes. Like we'd probably write each other letters. He'd buy a flight. how did I know where to pick him up at the airport like I don't know and what if his flight's delayed you can't just check on your phone like it's everything is just like if you want to go get coffee with your friends like you had a set of time and be there you could you got to send a raven two weeks earlier and hope somebody shows

Starting point is 00:50:17 so trying to travel and like rolling into like Salt Lake City and you're like five dumb kids from Buffalo and you have to find the venue and finance the tour and make sure the van works and you have no phone, you have nothing and surely didn't have any money. It was interesting, but it always worked out. You know, sometimes. Yeah, okay, I was going to say how often did it work out? It always worked. Sometimes you missed a show if something broke or whatever.

Starting point is 00:50:48 Sometimes you got to a show when it was canceled. But when I was when J-Mass was playing. in harm's way. Yes. I would ask him about this stuff, you know, and Colin, J-Mass is from Buffalo, he's from over there. And I would ask him about that. He said it was just like a lot of waiting.

Starting point is 00:51:04 Like you would get to a venue parking lot and you'd just kind of be there until somebody came to get you or came or didn't come. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It was just like a lot of like, yeah, no phone, no nothing. And how drastically did that change between touring with despair and touring with Barry a lot? Because that's only what, two or three years difference? I still, I didn't have a cell phone until I left Buffalo. So I don't think any of us did.

Starting point is 00:51:31 I think it was, we had a little more money and a little more experience. But I think it was pretty much the same. And Barred Alive had victory and a booking agent. So it was a little bit more professional, but not really. Part of this interruption from one of the greatest episodes, we've ever recorded in the history of this show. We have a couple of important things to talk to you about before we get back to this, one of the best episodes we've ever had in the history of this show.

Starting point is 00:52:01 Hey, Colin, I really like that shirt you got on. What is that there? Thanks, man. I got it at Guilty Party. The greatest menswear store in the United States of America is in Atlanta, Georgia, and it's co-owned by Champ from Foundation. So not only are you supporting an incredible local business, small business, you're supporting one of our own

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Starting point is 00:53:22 Go to GuiltyParty.com, use code hardlore. You get 10% out of free shipping over $300. You got to do it. Thank you. Also, man, Bo, I've been feeling good lately. Really? Do tell. Yeah. And it's because of age you want. Really? Sometimes I fall off.

Starting point is 00:53:39 Sure. You know, I'll go a couple days without consistently drinking it, and I'll think, like, why do I, why is, something's wrong with me? Something's up. And I'll just realize that the game, what I've been missing, the thing that makes me whole. And that is AG1. I look forward to my AG one time every single day. No matter what, I'm finding a way to make sure that I have AG one time.

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Starting point is 00:54:33 Five free travel packs and a little vial of vitamin DK drops. That's right. And you need that. The sun is going away. It is spooky out there. It's a very good point. The sun is going away for a while. Everyone needs vitamin D. and this is a year's supply. That's right. This green, delicious substance changed our lives. Our genetic makeups are different.

Starting point is 00:54:56 I believe. Yeah, you can't quote me. Agee one, don't get mad at that. It's different. He's buff as hell now. And I'm very skinny. Yeah,

Starting point is 00:55:05 and it's also manscape time, as always. It's always manscape time. I got a clock, and it's got 12 manscapes on it. That's all it is. Good answer, good answer. Our crops are always revived.

Starting point is 00:55:17 Our crops are always preserved. They're always cleansed. They're always hedged. They're always trimmed. TMI, perhaps. Maybe. You are my favorite listener. If you use code hardlore to get 20% off and free shipping on Manscape.com.

Starting point is 00:55:35 And hey, let's be honest. The seasons are coming. You're going to need Christmas stuff soon. That's right. It's starting. Let's go. That's right. Just start now.

Starting point is 00:55:45 Just do it now. Start now. okay you'll thank us later you will literally thank us later or you can thank us now you better thank for this incredible episode with galvold back to the episode so tell me about buried alive the conception and like you said having victory behind you because at that time there is no better place to be right okay so on the despair hate breed tour uh we played in chicago at the knights of Columbus or whatever that place is. Arlington Heights, yes, sir.

Starting point is 00:56:17 And Tony Brumel came out. And I remember him watching despair and think, we're having a pretty good show. Chicago was pretty good to despair. And we go into like a judge cover and I'm like, all right, this is where the crowd's going to really go off.

Starting point is 00:56:35 And I think he was like amateurs and just left the room. And I can remember, you know, I think he was bummed out. We did a cover. I don't know. I'm just overthinking this. But so I do.

Starting point is 00:56:47 I have those moments too where I'll see somebody in the back and be like, oh, that's cool. They're watching. Oh, they laugh. They hate us. We're all. Yeah. You never forget those.

Starting point is 00:56:57 So I think he sees hate breed for the first time there. And later in that tour in California, we played in Riverside, California with strife. Brummel flies out to that show. I see him in front of, like at the show. I see Hayprey sign the contracts. Shreif also plays. And he asks me if despair will do a seven inch. So now I'm like, we're the shit.

Starting point is 00:57:23 Life's amazing. We're going to be on victory. We go, we do the Hayprey tour. We go to Europe for the second time. We get back from Europe. Two people quit the band and despair dies. And I'm like, I was just going to be on victory. My life's dreams are shattered.

Starting point is 00:57:43 So you're telling me, so despair and Bear it alive are kind of a Sam Hain Danzig situation. I don't know what that means and I hope not. Well, in terms of Bear it alive, you did it right? You know, it was just about to happen. You're talking signing and then it's a whole new thing by the time it actually happens. No, this was despair is going to do a record with Vicar. Victory. Right.

Starting point is 00:58:14 Colleen, you just misspoke. You said Barry to Live. Oh, my sorry. I love that. The reason I say this is because when Buryde Alive starts and puts out a demo,

Starting point is 00:58:24 I send it to Victory and they say yes right away. Awesome. So it was kind of like I had my foot in the door already and they heard the demo and said yes. Gotcha. So something I remember you telling me is that because satisfaction did so well, it put a lot of pressure on. Buried Alive to just sound like Hey, Breathe.

Starting point is 00:58:46 I know, I think what you're saying, what you're thinking of is when we gave Tony the death of your perfect world, the Buried Alive record, he said, his reply to me was, this doesn't sound like Hey Breed. And I was like, did you hear our demo? Did you hear the seven inch you put out for us? It sounds like us. So I think maybe he wanted us to, but, you know, and I definitely. hate breed influence buried alive i think beard alive wanted to be all out war turmoil turmoil

Starting point is 00:59:18 mix in some all out war in hate breed i think that's where buried alive comes from you can hear that yeah yeah i mean the haprudeness i i wouldn't i would say was you guys being like what the hell you're talking about man yeah yeah yeah since i wish yeah we're different yeah wow maybe too because he sent us to to tracts east or whatever steve evitz maybe he was just maybe in his head i he's like I need another hate breed, but who doesn't? Wasn't mentally. So tell me about putting the

Starting point is 00:59:47 Barrett Alive records together. Tell me about some tours you did. I was very hesitant to join Barrett Alive. They had the band started without me. Jesse the drummer was also one of the early drummers for despair in our heyday,

Starting point is 01:00:07 or in our like in our prime, I'll say. Okay. And he quit. a band because he wanted to spend more time with his girlfriend. So when he's asking me to be in another band, I'm kind of like... Not with you. Did you guys break up?

Starting point is 01:00:22 And they were, you know, it was again, members of Buffalo bands that had broken up, one being a band called Hourglass, who definitely was a good band, but way, way outside my We house, like, streamo, like, noisy, like, roll around on the floor like totally amazing amazing core totally different than what i was into so when i heard the early buried alive stuff i was like and this is just i lived with the guitarist so i would hear their like practice tape sometimes i would go with them to practice and they're asking me to sing for them and i'm saying no thank you but i can hear because because that buried alive of death your perfect world record is pretty fucking good yes

Starting point is 01:01:11 certifiable. And it's pretty unique. I agree, Scott. It's pretty unique. It's like they did. I would say for sure that I'm the weak part of that record. Musically, the writing is really good and really unique. And I could hear it, but I just didn't want like, like Slugfest died, buried alive, or despair died. I was kind of like had my guard up. I was like, I just don't want to do a band. But I could hear there was something special in this. So eventually. I said, okay, I'll do it. We start playing shows. We do the demo. We get on Victory right away. They put out the 7-inch. Trying to think of early tours for Buried Alive. I mean, we did.

Starting point is 01:01:55 This isn't early. This is super late, but we did like the VOD Scarhead Candiria tour. That was really cool. And how big is that at that time? You know, for me, big, probably the biggest shows I had ever played. Right. But VOD was definitely coming down from their prime.

Starting point is 01:02:17 Scarhead was at their prime. And then Candiria was like running shit for a while. Right. And we're playing for this. This is, I believe, the first time where there's doors at seven. You're on at 715 too bad. You know, a lot of, but at that time it was fine. Oh, and another really cool Bared Alive tour was Snap.

Starting point is 01:02:40 Case saves the day. Barrettel. No, what are they called? Snapcase, Kid Dynamite. Barrett Alive saves the day. I think that was where we did. That's a sick tour.

Starting point is 01:02:52 Yeah, that was pretty wild. Oh, like the All Out War, full U.S. with All Out War with Reach the Sky and a lot of it. Barrett Alive would play with Reach the Sky all the time. All Out War all the time. Death Threat all the time. That was kind of like the bands we would

Starting point is 01:03:08 play with. Do any big stories or instances come to mind from any of those tours or hanging out with any of those bands? I was thinking about like the second day of the Bired Alive tour. It was, I can't remember where it was. And I don't know EZAC, but I don't know EZAC. And they're about to go on stage. And he, for some reason, I'm on stage, like, getting ready to watch them play. And he, like, comes to me and gives me his wallet and watch.

Starting point is 01:03:40 and says, hold this while we play. And I'm like, of course I say yes, but I'm like, I don't want to be in this position. What if something? Something happens. What about what I'mosh? You know that? Yo, Isaac, I lost your wallet.

Starting point is 01:03:57 Like, that's not going to go up very good. I mean, they, being on tour with them around the country, they, you know, there was some incidents. They were pretty wild. A lot of the stories that come in my head are kind of negative. and I don't like about me being kind of a jerk sometimes. I had a little thing with saves the day that I don't really like. Dave Wagon shoots,

Starting point is 01:04:20 the drummer of Lifetime and a kid dynamite, me and him were wrestled once, but it got kind of serious where we almost got into it. Sick drummer, pretty sweet. You love Lifetime, right? Oh my God. I love Lifetime. I mean, we talked briefly earlier about your love for melodic stuff,

Starting point is 01:04:39 but like people don't really know you are maybe hot water music's number one fan. Greatest man ever. Greatest man. It's probably the first thing I knew about Scott offstage was that he loves hot water music. That's right. The show ends, the hot water music begins. Rival schools, Texas is the reason. QuickSand, Sam I am, falling forward, Elliott, split lip.

Starting point is 01:05:05 I mean, put on Colda's life. amazing, but put on falling forward just as amazing for me. Wow. And bold. Like, I think this is why I have a lot of friends in the hardcore scene and it may be because I've been around for a long time. But also, like, I know people from all these different scenes, whether it's like the toughest band or the weakest band. Because if it's real to me, I like it. You like it all except for snap kids.

Starting point is 01:05:39 Again, back to that first tour, you made us take both of your iPods because you had two. Okay. One was like heavy and one was like hip hip hop. Oh, I like hip hop too. Hip hop and like, you know, like the melodic stuff. Nice. And you were like, take this. You're listening to this tonight.

Starting point is 01:06:01 I think I'll take the hip hop melodic one now more days. Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, you've done your time in the pit. Was your love for hip hop? Like, was it ongoing during all this time? Yeah, for sure. I even, like, even got into, like, run DMC and stuff before I even knew what hardcore wasn't.

Starting point is 01:06:19 It never stopped. I do want to say for the record, I have a very good relationship with Snapcase now. I actually saw that their guitarist, John Salemi, was it last night? I went to a show. I saw Shelter two days ago he was there. Damn. Great. No.

Starting point is 01:06:36 I'm just ribbed. I know. I know, but I can't let it go. Like, I got a... Speaking of Shelter, I'm happy to cut this one too. I heard they had a, there was a mistaken identity incident with Shelter in Buffalo one time. Where they got beaten into the hospital? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:06:52 Yeah, that's a tough one. This again, the stories of zero tolerance. I mean, the long, the short version that I know in this, I was at the show, but I didn't have, I would left because it happened after the show. I think the story is zero tolerance was out front. This is when they're in their not straight edge phase, kind of mean phase, uh, drinking and stuff.

Starting point is 01:07:18 Mark, Mark the singers still, I think has always been straight edge. Um, I think they got into some altercation with like local, the, the city or the show was in not the nicest area of Buffalo. They had some words with some local,

Starting point is 01:07:35 local kids or maybe adult. Everyone left. Shelter was at the show by themselves. And Shelter was huge at the time. There's probably like 800 people to show. And it was in this warehouse where you could drive into it. I know this story. This is crazy. So these people come back thinking shelters, the people that were outside, fucking with them with a bunch of their friends and weapons. They block the place you leave and all got out and kind of just. I mean, this isn't nice, but they just beat shelter and everybody up that was there. So they thought shelter was zero tolerance. So zero tolerance were the, we're the instigators here? I think so. I read, I read that story.

Starting point is 01:08:25 I read that story because Porcel like talked about it in some interview a long time ago. And I read his telling of it. There's a song. I'm not sure. but if you if you're in after mantra a couple records like kind of on the not what I would call not the greatest part of shelter there's a song like it says we were in Buffalo we got beat up blah blah blah blah I don't think it's that cut and pace but it says Buffalo beat up blah blah blah damn yeah that's a zero tolerance man strike again they're back that it always comes back

Starting point is 01:09:01 to zero tolerance all right so tell me about Barrett Alive ending. Yes. And California Scott being born. So Barrett Alive does stuff. Cool tours. Put out some records. Much like with Snapcase at the end of Barrett Alive,

Starting point is 01:09:24 I wasn't on the greatest terms with some of the people in the band. Now that I'm back in Buffalo and we've played shows again, I have an appreciation for them and understanding of their side of it. So I don't want to like really be too harsh, but I'll say I wasn't feeling the band anymore. We had a tour booked with death threat. So I didn't want to bail on the tour, but I knew on that tour with death threat as soon as we got home that I was going to quit the band. And I take full responsibility. I bailed on those guys.

Starting point is 01:09:56 We played our last show, the last show of the tour in Buffalo. I was also living with these dudes. And I told them, this is our last show. and I'm not your roommate anymore. I'm moving to California tomorrow. I got a rider truck. I was dating a girl in Chicago. I went and picked her up in Chicago and we moved to L.A.

Starting point is 01:10:17 And I did a really, you know, I did it pretty crappy to bear it alive. But it just, the band was just going in a direction that I couldn't stomach anymore. And I've said some things in interviews before that they contest that I said was going on with the band. So I don't want to bring that up. But the band was just, to me, it was over. And I just bailed. I was gone. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:10:44 Sure. And you know, that's part of you. We grow. We learn. We never stopped learning. We never stopped growing. Would you do it differently now? Maybe.

Starting point is 01:10:52 But, I mean, everything works out. But buried alive came back. You've written some cool new songs. You guys are on great terms. And now you sing in the best hardcore band ever. So when you're, You were moving to California. You mentioned earlier that you expected your musical output to be done at this point.

Starting point is 01:11:11 Yeah, I was definitely, definitely thinking, you know, again, every band I was in did semi-cool stuff. And I think I was kind of like, these were times when, and this may, this definitely led to people quitting the bands and leaving the bands. I was like a total stress case, control-free band, not. see my way. I know we're going to do it this way. You know, I was totally like that. So that didn't help anything. But so I had a friend Mark who was, he was from Buffalo. And he had recently moved to Arizona and built, he had some money from, he got hit by a car when he was younger. So he had this money. So he had moved out to Arizona and built a brand new house. And on that tour, been a nice car.

Starting point is 01:12:05 Yeah. On the tour with death rat, we buried alive, stayed there. And I told him, and he invited me and my girlfriend at the time to, so we actually moved to Arizona. And for maybe six months, we went and visited San Diego. We went and visited L.A. I think we had planned to check out the bay, and we're kind of figuring out what we were going to do.

Starting point is 01:12:31 And then terror happened. I got the call from the crazy thing is John McCroy from 10-yard fight started terror is the reason terror happened but blew off the first two practices. So never was in terror but started terror. So was it John Nick and Todd? That was the plan. That was the plan. I can give you some more tidbit. I'm in Arizona

Starting point is 01:13:03 Rich gets my phone number calls me and says Do you want to sing in a hundred demons And I was like Motherfucker I just drove You know I didn't have the money To almost move to California

Starting point is 01:13:18 And go back I didn't have any money All these times up until All these times I had no money I'm working Bullshit telemarketing jobs Fucking whatever

Starting point is 01:13:30 doing these bands that made barely anything, which is fine. I didn't care. Yeah, that wasn't their goal. Moving across country going back. But that's like a crazy thought to think about if I, if he would have caught me before I left and I would have like ended up in 100 demons that that could have been. What a wild alternate reality. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:13:52 Crazy. So you would have had to do a lot of apparatus vocal training to do that self-title record. I don't think that. would have happened. My friend Larry, who's from Buffalo that was working at Revelation Records at the time, gave me a tape. And it had no warning, 7 inch on one side, who I already knew because I had played with their, as we once were.

Starting point is 01:14:21 And I had seen no warning once, but I never heard them. So that the first 7-inch, fucking amazing. No warning is unbelievable. Beside, carry on a lifeless plague, who I had never heard of. But, I mean, carry on a lifeless plague is amazing. I call it like turning point on steroids, I guess. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:14:52 So I'm listening to this tape. I'm like, okay, hardcore is pretty fucking cool. This is fucking cool. I come home one day. I don't know how John LaCroix got my fucking phone number, to be honest. Maybe from Larry. So I get this phone, and I don't really know John McCroy. Like, buried alive and 10-yard fight did not run in the same circles.

Starting point is 01:15:14 So not that there was anything weird, but, you know, I was metalcore and stigmata. They were youth of today and in my eyes and all that stuff. You know, we played shows together, but I wasn't expecting. John LaCroix to call me. Hey, Scott, this is John LaCroix. I heard you moved out west or I'm moving to California. I just started a band with two dudes from Carry On. We want you to sing.

Starting point is 01:15:42 I was like, God damn, that Carry On Records good. I got to investigate this situation. Wow. So are you still in Arizona at the time? I'm at Arizona. I drive, you know, five hours. from Mesa, Arizona to Nick Jet in Granada Hills house, the infamous Nick Jet House. And I just...

Starting point is 01:16:09 In the fucking Valley, as you would say? Yes, I don't know him at all. I don't know Todd at all. I just know Todd's rifts. I don't even know... I don't even know what Todd Jones is. I walk into this house. They blaze through like three...

Starting point is 01:16:28 three songs. I remember saying to myself, I hope this drummer hits hard and can play a fast part. Boy, did I under estimate? No, you found your, like, creative muse. Yeah, and I think they were like, let's get some hamburgers

Starting point is 01:16:50 and go to a strip club. And I was like, I'm, you know, I don't know how much older I in them then, but maybe five years older, or maybe seven. I can't. Maybe 10 at the most. So they're definitely younger than me.

Starting point is 01:17:03 And I'm like, okay, they want to go to a strip club and they want to eat a hamburger. Oh, actually, I'm probably, I'm vegan at this time. So no hamburger for me. How long does that last? I was vegan for like 12 years probably. Oh, wow. Wow. Wow.

Starting point is 01:17:19 Ended. Ended. Sell out. Well, I think weren't you? I think you were, uh, Earth Crisis thanked you a lot. in liner notes and whatnot. I'm on thank you. The Path of Resistance record says, like,

Starting point is 01:17:33 thank you to these straight-edge soldiers, and I'm in there. They definitely know it. They knew it wasn't straight-edge, but. Should I grab it and check? I have it on my wall here. Like, I'm saying, Scott, you are now. You always fucking were. That's how it works out.

Starting point is 01:17:47 So you're vegan. You're hanging out with Todd and Nick for the first time. Sparks are flying. And do you recall what songs were written that day? I don't even know if they became terror songs. It was just the vibe. And it was so perfect. And Todd, you know, Nick was crazy.

Starting point is 01:18:08 Todd was crazy. And it was just like, holy shit, I can't say no. So I go back to L.A. I say to the girl at the time, I'm like, what do you think about moving to L.A. And me doing this band. And we end up in North Hollywood in a studio apartment. And I, you know, I, I was in the valley.

Starting point is 01:18:33 Is Burbank the Valley? Burbank's the Valley to me. Burbank is technically an unincorporated area. But, yeah, Valley goes as far east as Glendale. Okay. So I was technically in the valley for 18 years and have been in terror for 23, I think. That's what I like to hear. And that's the thing that, you know, I want to be clear here that the best.

Starting point is 01:18:57 hardcore band of all time is from me out. Pretty cool. You think a terror is a better hardcore band than Agnostic Front. It's different. It's different. You can't classify it as better than. But in terms of like you're on LP 9

Starting point is 01:19:17 and I love every single one, you're right in LP 10. And I'm going to, I love it already. It's also a matter of like you were talking about before how integrity put out a seven inch to change the game. Few years later, Earth Crisis put out a seven inch to change the game. Now you're singing for a band who when I heard the tarot demo and then Lois and it said low, it was like, oh, this changes what I like at this moment.

Starting point is 01:19:43 It also morphed the definition of California hardcore to me. And I'm from here. So I think that opinion counts a little bit. I could sort of see, you know, when terror started it was at that peak of 18 visions and throw down and bleeding through and every time I die, all those bands, which I'm friends with all of them. And I know those bands know that that's not really my musical wheelhouse. And they all took us on tour and were all very kind to us. And on Los Alo, Todd's wearing a bleeding through shirt.

Starting point is 01:20:21 So these are our peers, but we definitely saw that, wanted to do something different. And I could see the landscape of hardcore shift. We didn't change everything, but there was a lot of people who one day had a type of haircut and a couple months later had no hair. And I'll take that as a win for hardcore. You think that has anything to do with a particular shirt tear out? It's one of my one of my Grail shirts that I would love to find.

Starting point is 01:20:56 Scott's got one for you, I'm sure. So tell me about early days of terror, demo, lowest of the low, Jim Grimes' birthday. Tours at that time. Early days of terror, it all happened so fast and it was a long time ago. But I think the beautiful thing about terror was

Starting point is 01:21:17 I was sort of mentally on a mission and the mission wasn't to get on a big label or sell records or I just wanted shows to go off it's all I wanted. I had been in bands that shows kind of went off or once in a while went off but I knew with the sound terror had and the energy I just the goal was to just

Starting point is 01:21:47 make people go off. And me, Nick and Todd, and all the people, you know, the earth, terror has been great that in the last, you know, since we've had one lineup change in the last 14 years. Yeah, right. Which is kind of crazy. So, you know, it's been really stable. But the early days, there's a lot of lineup changes and people coming and going. but everyone was kind of just like no questions asked

Starting point is 01:22:20 they knew we were just going to tour we were happy to play you know like one tour we're out with 18 Visions and Throwdown the next month we're with Blood for Blood The next month you know it was just we would play with any band another good thing about terror was

Starting point is 01:22:37 I'm from the East Coast a little bit older Nick and Todder from the West Coast I know people more from you know like I know people from death threat and stigmata and kid dynamite and saves the day and snapcase

Starting point is 01:22:52 but Todd knows everyone from floor punch and Chris Wren and 10 yard fight and carry on head toured and new people and I knew people were a little different age East Coast West Coast so we kind of knew

Starting point is 01:23:09 I don't want to say almost everybody but lots of people in this scene You're the right people. Big and make things work. And we were just ready to go. We all said, you know, we didn't ask many questions. There was nothing like what, you want to tour with this band? Like, what are we getting paid?

Starting point is 01:23:29 What, what slot are we playing? You know, how big were our name beyond the flyer? Hardcore is like so professional now. Back even then when Tare started, none of those things, it was just, oh, we're playing now, let's attack the fucking crowd. Let's go. And, you know, it'd be like, play, run to the merch, sweating, sell the merch, sell the merch, sell the merch, go mosh for whatever band's

Starting point is 01:23:57 playing, drive all night, sleep in the van, sleep at people's houses. I think the Scott Vogel story. I don't think terror ever really lost money because merch was really good always, because, you know, we had like a nice hype right away. Yeah. We, you know, we went to Europe immediately. Like, lowest low came out. I don't know if it was before or after,

Starting point is 01:24:26 but we went to Europe with biohazard. And in Europe, we're playing for like 700 to 1,500 people in night. I had never done anything remotely like that. Maybe like the biggest VOD show at the glass house was like, what 900 people at the glasshouse? Yeah, something like that. This was like that every night. And biohazard over there are bona fide.

Starting point is 01:24:51 Like they're coming down off their high point. But they're like bonafide stars are like camera like TV shows and like Tara Patrick. Like Evan was was dating that. Yeah. On star, I guess. Terra Patrick. So that's a whole new world. So now we're in seeing like.

Starting point is 01:25:11 despair had gone to Europe, buried alive had gone to Europe, but very DIY, very tiny. This is on a bus. This is the first time I'm on a bus. And we, you know, we got to go to Japan right away,

Starting point is 01:25:24 Australia right away. Those were first for me. Wow. Hey, Bree's taking us out. You know, we're like hot topics, like a big thing. And they're ordering 2,000 shirts.

Starting point is 01:25:36 And we're getting a check for $10,000. And I get like $1,000 of that. That's never unimaginable. Yeah, right. Unbelievable. So it's very clear immediately that terror is kind of like this era defining band. It's just like, you're like, oh, okay, this is working. This thing that I didn't know, this aspect of this genre that I've been in my whole life,

Starting point is 01:25:58 I'm now experiencing this for the first time on my fifth band. Yes, this is going too good to be true. I don't think I thought like that, though. I just, you know, when you're in, when you're in it, it's just all happening. It's all happening. It's all happening. I'm sure I'm getting a touch of ego. Like every show's good.

Starting point is 01:26:20 Every label wants us. Like, you know, it's hard to like not get caught up in that a little bit. But I think I've always been pretty level-headed. And is this all still low, so the low? Yeah. Wow. And then Todd leaves, which was tough. That was, that was scary.

Starting point is 01:26:38 That was right towards the end of making one with the underdogs, right? No, that was in Europe. Todd took me and Nick for a walk or whatever. He was just like, you know, super, Todd can be very blunt and a little bit, you know, too blunt sometimes, but he very maturely. You know, if anything, he's going to be straight up with you. Yeah, but very maturely, he was like, I just, touring is just like mentally, you know,

Starting point is 01:27:06 And I think he's, you know, you see nails is, you know, they tour very minimal. And I think just that touring stuff. I mean, it sounds like fun, but it is fucking tough. Right. I'm happy to say, though, I saw nails two nights ago. And one of the first things that Todd said, I don't think he would mind me even saying this was he was like, I missed this. This has been awesome. Nice.

Starting point is 01:27:30 It was nice. It was good to hear, you know. But we never got. So how did you name terror? What was the story? with that. So we right away, Matt Pike hit me up. A.N. So we, so Terror's first show was at Pat's warehouse. But before that, we must have got this call from Matt Pike. Matt Pike hit me up and said, hey, I heard you have a new ban. I'm doing a four-day

Starting point is 01:28:03 West Coast thing with death threat, American nightmare, strike. distance do you guys want to play hell fucking yeah for course what's the name of your band we don't have one so i had a sheer terror videotape next to my my uh tv and i just took the sheer sheer away and there it was wow so beautiful thank you paul it's so funny that that could even work because it's literally like me being like of today nothing nothing like that would work So who got in touch with Scott McGrath? Because he did the logo. He did the first few layouts.

Starting point is 01:28:43 Right. When I first moved to L.A. And, you know, I knew like Andrew from Stripe. I knew, I didn't know Larry, but that he was in Orange County. The only person I really knew in the Valley that was not part of the terror crew was Andrew. But like from Carry on and Nights. fight and Corey and all

Starting point is 01:29:10 these people. They had this whole crew of people and I think Scott McGrath maybe, I think Todd had an apartment that he lived with Matt Smith who was the first base player and I think maybe I don't know but all these people

Starting point is 01:29:26 Jeff Givens like kind of like the whole carry on Mosh team and people they all hung out together so these are the first people that were always around all the terror shows and stuff. And, you know, things were so, and Todd was kind of taking the lead on a lot of things. I think Todd got the demo done.

Starting point is 01:29:47 And I think, I think Matt Smith made that Eagle logo, which is still something we use all the time. I kind. I think Todd was like, we wrote two more songs and Scott McGrath, maybe Peace, I don't know the timing, but piece by piece was happening too. So, you know, like, it's funny, like the first terror show, terror played under piece by piece. Like, so Nick's doing double duties right away. Was that at headline records?

Starting point is 01:30:21 That was at this place called a Hatch Warehouse, I think in Ventura, tiny, tiny little no stage show. That was the first terror show. And then I think we did those the shows with Anne. And, you know, Todd had all the connections in California from, because he booked shows in,

Starting point is 01:30:44 oh, hi. So he got us on all the corona shows and chain reaction. And it was really too easy. Like, it was, you know, like, it was pretty easy.

Starting point is 01:30:55 So you move and you immediately fall into this, this unbelievable situation. It's like, oh, fuck, man. This is way better. It was, but, but you know what wasn't easy?

Starting point is 01:31:05 Okay. I'm in Buffalo. I'm going to Erie. That's an hour and a half. I can get to shows in Hamilton, Ontario, crossing into a different country, hour and 20 minutes. I'm going from North Hollywood to Corona, and it could take three hours. Hours. I would be like, what? How? How? How? How? How? How? can there be traffic like this? Dude, being a band in the Northeast is truly the biggest cheat code. You think we've got it easy because we're in California and a lot of people live here. But that, A, that means there's a billion shows here every single day. And B, there's like five places. There's like five cities to play within six hours. It's insane.

Starting point is 01:31:57 And if you live in New York City, you live in Boston, you live in Baltimore, you're a two-hour drive from a different show at all times. You can book a 10-day tour with hour-long drives every single day and have an incredible tour. Every time we're on a tour and it spends a week or two on the East Coast, that's the best part of the tour. That's the best part. Buffalo is kind of good because I can get to Boston and like for bandwise. Boston and seven hours down to D.C. Boston, New York or Manchester? Then Detroit, Chicago is like 10?

Starting point is 01:32:32 You can hit that. You're close to. the Midwest, Cleveland, all those places. I think Philadelphia is probably, I think Philadelphia is probably the best one to be based out of. Because that's like two hours from every other city. Everywhere. It's crazy.

Starting point is 01:32:47 It's fucked up. So tell me about rolling into one with the underdogs now. Pressure's high. Anticipation's high. The big follow-up. We're recording this one in Van Nuys at Sound City, Scott. Was it really? Damn.

Starting point is 01:33:03 with a broken China. When Todd leaves the band, he says he wants to just not tour, he wants to stay on and write. And we were totally cool with that. So same thing. Todd wrote all of One with the Underdogs. Me and Nick, you know,

Starting point is 01:33:22 obviously gave some input. One with the Underdog, that was a little bit of a weird situation with Todd in the band, but not fully in the band because we're going out and touring and he's missing some of that. So there's a little bit of weirdness with that. Sure. I mean, I hate to say this, but somehow we got a pretty bad recording at Sound City.

Starting point is 01:33:48 The mix was really bad. We had it remixed. I mean, just like I said with the Barrett-Live LP, the vocals were the worst part. I think the thing that really saved one with the underdogs, the songs are amazing. The drumming's amazing. The guitar is amazing. Everything, it just, I don't know if it was tracked wrong or it just doesn't,

Starting point is 01:34:17 the recording is not correct, but the vocals, the vocals and the lyrics to me really save that record because they're just, they're just real. They're timeless, Scott. You've made just timeless, perfect hardcore songs there. I remember reading with a Heart Made of Steel, like that line, and that was in my head, just like the cadence was in my head in high school. Like, daily. I was just, it was an immediate thing.

Starting point is 01:34:50 And a very early representation of a music video from that record that I liked that I thought was cool. And I don't think hardcore music videos are very easy to do and pull off. The Overcome video, right? Okay, you want a great story from the Overcome video shoot? I really do. So this is, this is when me and Dre from Donnybrook, Martins brother are really becoming good at drinking together. And I'm still living on Clump Avenue in North Hollywood.

Starting point is 01:35:29 This is when Corey, Corey's house is like the party house in Woodland Hills. He's got this apartment. And this is where everyone's hanging out all the time. Lots of trouble. Lots of trouble. So let's say terror comes and picks me up

Starting point is 01:35:53 and Dre is already day drinking. He comes into my house. and I have this amazing, it's like a coffee cup, like a plastic tall coffee cup, death red cup. And he goes into my, which I've never really seen since then, he goes into my cupboard or cabinet or whatever, and he's like, is going to take this to the video shoot. And he starts drinking.

Starting point is 01:36:19 And I'm like, dude, whatever you do, don't lose that cup. I want that cup. So drinking, drinking, drinking. end of the night, then the thing shows up at, or everything, the video gets shot. We end up at Corey's house

Starting point is 01:36:34 and I ask him for the cup. He's like, he's gone. The cup's gone. But you can see in that video, he throws it. It goes across the screen on the video. Here it is. Stevens, thank you.

Starting point is 01:36:48 Oh, wow. Dude, that's so funny because one of my favorite things about that video is Dre being front and center pretty much the entire time. He's like your muscle in that way. Do you know this guy, Big Zach? He used to be part of the Donnybrook troublemaker crew, really actually a nice guy.

Starting point is 01:37:11 I remember at that video shoot. So it's what is that called where we did that shoot in the L.A. River. Right. So in there, we set up. Scenic, historic. Beautiful L.A. River. We invite kids. there's all these hardcore kids there and it's like we're gonna put on the music and all these

Starting point is 01:37:32 kids are supposed to mosh and it's super awkward and we're you know I'm definitely like half drunk already so I'm all already like this is super awkward but I'm kind of drunk so I can get through it and big and I think we did like the first two takes of the song and everyone's just kind of staring at us and it sucks and then somehow Big Zach I think he like pounded a beer and threw it and just started moshing and he like saved the whole video or it would have been just it would have been just like dead so mvp thank you big zach and this is big zach that works with panic at the disco and other bands yes yeah he's out there um wow yeah that video is historic a lot of a lot of friends in there a lot of a lot of recognizable faces

Starting point is 01:38:20 It was on like Fuse TV and shit Like like the Xfinity I don't remember what it's called anymore But it was like the like video on demand thing You could like watch it And we used to watch it And it would be like the My girlfriend's girlfriend video

Starting point is 01:38:35 Punishment and then the terror video It was because it was all a hodgepodge It was all mixed up But I remember sitting and watching With my friends and being like wow That record came out on Truskill And he was like Josh was Or Truskill was like a pretty serious

Starting point is 01:38:50 label and that's when you know that record kind of sold so he he was putting money into us and getting us cool stuff and hot topic bullshit and played on whatever MTV 2 and shit like that so um you know terror never got big but you know we were doing for a hardcore band that played traditional hardcore that had no look or like gimmick or anything we we were doing decent stuff so who's in band at this. So Todd leaves, does Martin immediately join? Three guns, baby? Yeah. Three gun, baby. My God.

Starting point is 01:39:29 What was the other guy? Doug? Doug? So we went, I mean, Rich Thurston was in the band for a while on bass, and then we got Carl. Carl, right? Carl from first grade. So that, that's kind of, and then Busky, that's kind of

Starting point is 01:39:44 the base lineage, up to David Wood. At this time we had Doug. Because Martine's in that video. Is he just Martine from Donnybrook in that video? Martine came in right after we recorded

Starting point is 01:40:01 Always the Hardway. He's on the band photo of that. But yeah, so I think it was Doug and Todd for a little bit. Todd leaves we get three gun three gun leaves

Starting point is 01:40:18 and we get Martin. Now, what's that conversation like when three gun leaves? Do you understand? No. Terrible. Terrible. I got snap case again. And I don't want to, like, I was outside of Corona showcase crying to Frank.

Starting point is 01:40:38 It hurt. And like, Frank's one of my best friends, one of my oldest friends. I met Frank when I got the confront demo. And it didn't have lyrics. I wrote to the PO box and he hand sent me, I wish I still had them, to confront lyrics to their demo. Frank's a great person. And again, like Tim from from Snapcase, I see you, you get asked to be in Hayprey, that's hard to pass up. But it was just, you know, Hayprey was always one step above terror.

Starting point is 01:41:17 Oh, you know. and it just the way it went, I mean, I don't really want to put it out there, but it's like we're at the studio, at Zeus's studio recording always the hard way. Frank's there with us. He's leaving and going, hanging out and learning the hate.

Starting point is 01:41:36 I think he's learning the hate breed stuff. We take a band photo with Frank in it. I'm wearing a hate breed shirt. We drive back. We do shows to get back to California, the last shows of Corona. It's weird. Martine's the one that told me.

Starting point is 01:41:53 Martine's like, I don't know, but like, you know, I got some bad news. Frank's quitting terror to be in hate breed. And,

Starting point is 01:42:00 uh, Martin was plotting. I was so, so shook. Like, I wasn't bawling, but like, tears were coming out of my eyes,

Starting point is 01:42:10 out of anger and, uh, adrenaline. That's real. That's raw. That's love, dude. That's love for your friend,

Starting point is 01:42:16 Frank. That's love for your, heart, that's passion. You're right. So Frank leaves and goes into hate breed. And that I remember Martine, Martin had a few times been putting the bug in my ear that he wanted to be in terror. So Andrea is one of my really good friends.

Starting point is 01:42:38 And I'm not going to do to him what Frank. I hate saying this because I love hate being. No, because Frank is a beloved friend of the show. He's listening right now. he understands. And look, it's like when, you know, your ex-girlfriend, she gets with another guy, at least she marries that guy, you know? I understand what my mom did. I understand what my mom did. I understand what Tim did with Snapcase. I understand what Frank did. Absolutely. It all worked out for the best for everybody. And he's still in Heypreed and he's, and he's, he is, he is so frank now, you know,

Starting point is 01:43:11 that's the Frank he was always meant to be. And Martin, think about Tara without Martine, you know. I took Dre aside and I was like, because Donnie Brooke at this time is doing a lot. They're like, I think actually they had, I could be wrong, but I think they had kind of started to say they're going to tour less. Whatever. I took Dre aside and I said, hey, this is being talked about. What do you think? And he was like more adult than me. He said the thing that I should have said to Frank.

Starting point is 01:43:44 terror is doing beautiful things. Please take my brother so he can do them. Oh, wow. Wow. Yeah. And I can't imagine a terror without Martine at this point. He, on and off stage,

Starting point is 01:44:02 he's just an adult that did, you know, like before we started doing this and you guys had to tell me to touch this button, when terror has to do a backer, that's digital or all these things. Yeah. He's amazing in so many ways. It's done. Don't worry.

Starting point is 01:44:21 And terror at this point is in like Nick. You know, all Nick cares about is running and being calm and normal. I'm like a different person. Martine gets so much stuff done. But when Jordan is, and Linkovich, everyone is amazing. I can't remember the last time Terrors had an argument. It's been years.

Starting point is 01:44:52 And it used to be daily. Man, this lineup is like, this is terror. Scott, when you argue with someone, does the voice ever come out? The like little... No, the... Yeah.

Starting point is 01:45:07 Have you ever argued with someone that hard that the two-in-voice? I noticed you were saying. Me and drive. I have a thing called the voice, which is a joking thing. But I hope not. I strictly reserve that for the stage.

Starting point is 01:45:26 That's fair. So, you know, you said 23 years of terror now. Do you have? It is an absolutely insane. Do you have a favorite terror album? Oh. Like something you put on, you go, we fucking did that, man.

Starting point is 01:45:44 it's weird because I would say Keepers of the Faith but it's not for the music because there's songs on Keepers of the Faith that I don't think that are that good.

Starting point is 01:45:58 I will say witnessing that firsthand you know, the rollout, the anticipation. Yeah. It was so impressive how like and I feel like it was just

Starting point is 01:46:09 this perfect lightning in a bottle thing. The rebirth and the movement that it created behind terror. was unbelievable. I remember the rain fest that year, right before it came out. Terror played and you guys were playing it in the green room just to show like band members, just to show people. And everyone was like, oh, they fucking, oh, they got the dude from the warning. It was like, it was like a whole thing.

Starting point is 01:46:33 You know, I just, I remember being really excited about it. Yeah, that movement was really special. But there's, you know, there's some, like, stick tight is one of the greatest terror songs ever. But there's some songs in there I could lose. One with the underdogs, if I, it also has too many songs. If I could, if I could chop off a few filler songs,

Starting point is 01:46:55 I want the underdogs and give it a new cover because the tied up dude, I don't need that. Like, that would probably be it. Lo so low is. Dude, I put that cover on our,

Starting point is 01:47:06 we had our best album openers episode. Yeah. And I had that guy as the thumbnail for a bit, like in the background. I was like, I can't use this fucking guy. No one needs that guy. No, I mean, it is cool.

Starting point is 01:47:19 It's iconic cover regardless. So you would say those two? Yes. And the, in pain and the power, the new one. There's like that there's no, there's like pretty much nothing I'd change about that. It's, it. The feeling of the first two, I will take over the new one. Because after you've done something for 23 years and did.

Starting point is 01:47:46 7,000 million shows and all those things. It's a different energy, and I like where we're at, but it can't compare to those early days when it was just insane back then. That's just being a band, though. Yeah. Yeah, of course. Something that's crazy is nine LPs deep to, for me, like, if I'm going to see a band I love, and they're playing,

Starting point is 01:48:14 and I know they're playing a couple songs from the ninth record, I'm like, fuck. Sure. Play stuff in that ninth one. When terror plays fucking boundless contempt, I'm like, okay, all-time terror banger coming up.

Starting point is 01:48:28 That's from the ninth, God damn album. That is a lot to do with Todd. Todd, like, I don't think there's, there's terror records. I like less, but there's not a terror record that I really think we

Starting point is 01:48:43 fucked up or perused down. or anything. But Todd came and produced the newest record. He also wrote some lyrics on it. There are songs on the newest record that Todd wrote, start to finish lyrics, vocal pattern. Whoa. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:49:04 Like he came in and said, doing that terror record during the pandemic, and me, Todd and Nick getting together in Granada Hills again, 20 years later was a trip. It was very strange, but in an awesome way. But there would be days when I think we were getting together every other Sunday because we were in no rush. So there'd be days where Todd would come in. I have a new song.

Starting point is 01:49:28 I got the lyrics. I got and he'd rip the whole thing out. We demo it with him singing. I'd be like, whoa. That song's perfect. And I didn't have to do anything. It's the dream. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:49:40 At this point, like, I'd say the first half of terror, I would never. accept lyrics from someone else. At this point, like when we were doing that record with Will Putney, total retaliation, I would try to get people, like he has this whole little compound. So we would track stuff during the day,

Starting point is 01:50:03 and I would get, I'd like assemble a team. Who wants to help write lyrics? And we'd play it in one of the smaller rooms. And the more help I can get and input, someone, because my brain only works. So, like in certain ways.

Starting point is 01:50:19 My hooks are going to be the same. I'm going to use the same words. My vocabulary is the same. So getting other inputs, input is totally great. Yeah, you and I talked about, there's one of the songs on there that you asked me about helping with lyrics. I think it was, I don't want to know you. Is that a song? I don't know you.

Starting point is 01:50:42 Yeah. I don't think I ended up helping at all, but I think the title we collaborated on. Yeah, and Ben Cook helped. You were at that one time. Ben Cook on a couple of records totally helped. Like getting like someone to help me with anything. I'm totally open to. Yeah, I've done gang vocals on one, two, three, four, four terror albums now.

Starting point is 01:51:05 Well, with what I know, I would assume it'll be on the next one coming up too. We got a game plan coming together that's heavily Valley. heavy? I don't know the right word. No, you nailed it. Wink, wink, noge, noge. Something I want to talk about, Scott, that really was prevalent during the one with the one, one of the underdogs days are a little thing that exploded online.

Starting point is 01:51:36 Oh, God. Oh, no. Called vocalisms. Oh. Okay. I thought you were going to go somewhere else. No, no, no. You were, you were like one of the first memes, I feel. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:51:48 as far as the internet goes. Yeah, you know, move up, like moving company. More stage dives. I need more stage dives in the monitors and stuff. I remember when that happened and I was kind of mad at first. Like I took it as like being made fun of maybe. Sure. And I found out it was a, there must have been a contact thing on her or something.

Starting point is 01:52:15 It was a female in Toronto. and she was like, I was like, you got to take this down. And she was like, I love your band. You guys are like my favorite band. Can I please just leave this up? And I was just like, yeah, sure. But I'm not like someone that really, you know, I'm, as time goes on more, I'm kind of a hermit and kind of keep my space. And I'm not very social.

Starting point is 01:52:38 And I think touring for 20 years straight would kind of do that to most people. But I was just kind of anti it until I found out, you know, if you take yourself too seriously, like some, here's another thing I'll say. Some of those things I've never said. Like, just like I was saying, lyric vocabulary, there's just some things I would never say in my life. I would, like, there's certain phrases that would never come out of my mouth. But if you take a look back, it is, it was kind of fun.

Starting point is 01:53:06 And there are things that you hear that you did and you're like, that sounds like something I would do. Oh, that's like for sure. Like handing, handing me 40 euros. Oh, no. And saying, go get me five Big Macs. And then I go get you five Big Macs in your sleep. Oh, man.

Starting point is 01:53:23 There are so many times in Europe when, like, me and Errol would go by 50 hamburgers and then put them under everyone's pillows in their bunks. People would be like, what's this? Oh, hell yeah. That's a beautiful moment. I have kind of a stupid question. Yeah. In the early 2000s, did you ever,

Starting point is 01:53:46 get into any issues with a bunch of shirts and shit that said terror while flying and going to other countries and stuff? I know Beattie from Heybreed had an issue wearing a terror shirt at the Canadian border, I believe. I believe. I mean, we never, nothing ever really happened, but it never was really cool to roll into an airport across a border with a million things that said terror. Your paperwork said terror, your stickers that say terror, your gears. says terror. It just wasn't, but I don't think it ever stopped us from doing anything. Good. Good. Speaking of overseas, Terror are the greatest German hardcore band of all time, really. Tell me about terrorists experience touring Europe. I mean, you guys fucking live there half the year, pretty much. I honestly, you know, I hear a lot of people dog on it. I love it.

Starting point is 01:54:43 having tour with terror in Europe one time, I loved it then too. It's very different experience. I think some people get just the right taste right away and it's like, I love this. Yeah. I mean, we got to tour with all, you know, all of our favorite band, New York bands, MAD, who booked us for like 15 years, just did so much for us. And we, you know, like they just, obviously, Terror is not a New York hard group. band, but they just like, the style we play, it just, people just took to us right away.

Starting point is 01:55:21 I mean, our first time was with Biohazard. We got really good tours. We got cool festivals. We always made decent money. And we worked hard enough over there. We're like, we're always on a bus now. We, you know, and like, now you have a cell phone. It's not that tough, you know?

Starting point is 01:55:40 Yeah. We get treated okay. Aerole our tour manager that's been with us for like 15 years he gets the job done if we need something we do it I mean there there's days where you wake up in a field and there's no air you know all the all the cliche things still happen to us but like really is it that good outweighs the bad yeah and is the bad that bad you're going to sweat in the field

Starting point is 01:56:04 and play a show you have all day you're on a bus you got free food you can get drunk if you want you can jump in a lake like you know do you have a favorite european tour you've ever done oh shit i know there's 18 a year yeah it's hard to narrow down i mean this this is gonna sound a little too uh posy now that i'm not drinking on tour i'm so much happier like for people that have toured with me and really know me, I would get drunk day after day after day, and you just wake up feeling like shit, sweaty, doing stupid things while you're drunk, apologizing to people having to,

Starting point is 01:57:00 it's just a terror, like, and I'm not putting anyone down. Like, I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do, because I did that for 20 years and I loved it and had some of the craziest best days in my life. But now that I'm not, I'm just in such a day. Like people in terror saw that for 20 years. And now I'm like the dude that gets up and fucking does yoga every morning and cleans the butt. Like now I'm like this weird neat freak that cleans everybody and like does my laundry and gets my hair cut. Like now I have other weird things that are just like very neat and clean.

Starting point is 01:57:41 and it's like so now I'm enjoying things right now the most. Beautiful. I love to hear that. And terror is dynamic right now just these five guys I really think you just found the perfect perfect mix.

Starting point is 01:57:57 Yeah, Jordan. You got crazy Jordan, dude. It's pretty awesome. It's beautiful. No one argues. Like people annoy each other and I know I like dude, like sometimes,

Starting point is 01:58:11 I'm the person that gets a word and says it over and over and over and over. What's your new word? Stage dive. No, he was finally for a while. It was moist. It was choice. Yeah. I don't know what it's been lately.

Starting point is 01:58:30 That David Wood and me, we had a whole language. We could speak a whole language that didn't make sense to anyone. accept each other and everyone else. But it all catches on. Everyone starts using it. Even when they don't, like, you'll, I'll hear, like, Jordan say something and be like, are you fucking serious? I just said it.

Starting point is 01:58:54 Like, it just catches on. So, like, I'm annoying. Everyone has their things that annoys each other and terror still. But at this point, it's just like, eh, fuck it. Do you have a favorite place or city to play in Europe? Like, where is the European stronghold for? Are we talking show or chilling? Let's show.

Starting point is 01:59:15 Let's say a show, yeah, yeah, to actually play. Like, maybe your top four European hardcore scenes. I don't know. I mean, let me say this. Terror is so fucking lucky and so black. And we worked hard. But we can go anywhere in the world. People sing some of our songs.

Starting point is 01:59:41 and give us love, whether it's a show with, we still play shows to 100 people up to huge shows. We can do that anywhere. Anywhere we go, people appreciate us and sing along and give us love. I'll just say that instead of like picking out certain cities because. I like that. I don't really, I don't really know. Like, it's still a point. We'll go somewhere and have the greatest show ever and we'll go back and be like, what happened?

Starting point is 02:00:08 Where did everyone go? That's still happening. So you are still here. men after all. Yeah, I am. Okay, good to know. Scott, what do you think about telling me about the the legendary infamous whiskey go-go-go incident? Okay. My memory is pretty tough on anything. So some of the things I might say are not, may not be true. Martin can confirm later. Martin did fight an L.A. City bus. I saw it. He did he fought a bus

Starting point is 02:00:42 I got my head so shows were happening at the whiskey and I think it was a known thing that security there were kind of overly aggressive we were on tour it was the promise terror

Starting point is 02:01:08 shattered realm born from pain the fuck am I missing Internal Affairs? Was internal affairs play that show? I was going to say the hoods. Might have been the hoods. I don't know. So early in the night, early in the day,

Starting point is 02:01:25 something got stolen out of Buskey's bag. So that was already a bad thing. And he's already, he, you know, he's not one to let things go too easily. Sure. So there's a bad vibe already. We know security's not cool. I think they,

Starting point is 02:01:43 asked us to go get our hands stamped or whatever and busky came back and something was missing so it was kind of like we felt a setup so suss already right yeah uh during the terror set it's going off i don't think it was like super violent but it was wild in a good way people start getting dragged out of the show by security and then uh Javier from the warriors i remember he kind of got hemmed up and he was someone we all were friends with and that was like all right this is getting out of hand i shouldn't say this but maybe don't maybe avoid it then talk around it you know i i was at the point where i probably could have diffused it and said this shouldn't happen but i didn't and things it just turned whatever a couple hundred kids

Starting point is 02:02:43 against 10 security guards. And they probably deserve to be slapped around a little. And I think all the windows got broke and a lot of stuff got broke. It's insurance. It's collateral damage. Our merch guy at the time, Eby, he picked up like a divot. Like when you walk through the airport or a movie, the little metal thing that holds the belts together. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 02:03:12 He picked one of those up and threw it at the security guard, and it hit me in the head. And I went to the hospital. I got five staples in my head, which was really not fun to tour with. Doug got arrested. Martine fought a city bus. I say this because I believe what happened was he was, like, fighting in the street and a bus, like, beat at him. And he, like, tried to pull the doors open, but he couldn't. so he started punching the bus.

Starting point is 02:03:44 I think that's what happened, something like that. That's so awesome. The helicopter showed up. There was like 20 police cars. It was pretty crazy. Infamous. I was off to the emergency room. That wasn't very fun.

Starting point is 02:03:59 Martinez told me that he tried to go back to the whiskey years later. Yeah. And they remember, like, yeah. I think, I think, they don't want to. Left time ban. I think so. That's all right. Yeah, that's just fine

Starting point is 02:04:14 Ain't nobody going there anyway Terror is a band that is legendary for like you said earlier You do any tour You'll play with whoever makes sense Which has led to you Doing tours with barricades As a hardcore band

Starting point is 02:04:29 Which is not easy But you have found ways to defeat You have defeated the barricade What can you tell me about Doing all these crazy tours As like the kind of flagship hardcore band on them or being the kind of favorite hardcore band of death metal metalcore any way, all these bands from different genres want terror on the tour and you find a way to

Starting point is 02:04:54 deliver every time. Tell me about figuring that out. The first thing I want to say is I've accepted the barricade, but I still think it does more harm than good. I rarely see a venue that sets up a barricade and then enforces that no one can go past the barricade and has security in place for when people come over the barricade. It happens, but it's usually more of a problem. And I get it for insurance reasons, but then maybe push it right up against the stage. And if you're going to have a barricade, then don't let anyone on the stage. Make sure there's people there for when they do the crowd surf towards the stage. It's just, I've seen.

Starting point is 02:05:42 And don't fucking assault the kid when he finally makes it to you after surfing. Yeah. It's, it still does more bad than good or really move it back. So there's no way to get to the stage. And I, you know, there has been times when I've still tried to get people on stage to stage dive when there is a barricade, which is probably not. great legally. And now I've found ways to say things that are subconscious, but not really telling people.

Starting point is 02:06:15 I'll go so as far as to like you can't stage dive tonight. It doesn't mean that they won't. But at least I'm, you know, I don't want to see anyone get hurt. That's the last thing you want. Yeah. But I also have this issue in my head. Like you book a terror show and you want a band called terror and God's hate and fucking. hate breed, and you want the money of the people coming to see these bands, but you don't

Starting point is 02:06:41 want these bands to have their show. It's like, that really bothers me. I think you just got to get a little creative and look at it from the standpoint of the people there. And of course, be the cheerleader that I am, the rally cry giver. And just, you know, there's, there's, We play a lot of festivals in Europe where still a lot of people have no idea who we are. We are not the type of music they're into. And I mean, another thing I would say to a lot of bands that are playing any show or with a barricade, you don't expect the first couple songs. You got to, like, feed it to them and let things ramp up.

Starting point is 02:07:32 And I don't want to say don't give up. But. And also keep in mind that like from a lot of people's perspective, a good show isn't that someone dove over a barricade. It's there, there are some, you know, I'm not going to shows today and going up front and letting someone jump on my head. I'll, I'll be back at the emergency room like the whiskey. So, you know, you'll need a third backiotomy. Let's do it again. But I mean, I think just look at the situation, figure it out, and I think just the energy.

Starting point is 02:08:15 Give them the energy. Don't give up. And hope the crowd reciprocates the energy you're giving them. I mean, you can see when a band goes up on a bigger stage and is like, I don't want to fucking be here. Why are we playing this stupid show? Which, if that's their demeanor, that's okay. But the crowd's going to feel that.

Starting point is 02:08:35 and then your show is going to be just that. So I think attack, attack. I love that. I mean, I just saw you at the Palladium to 3,000 people where there was a barricade and it didn't for a second not feel like a hardcore show. Thank you for having us, Drain. Yeah, honestly, on that whole tour, it was really cool to see because that was the situation a lot of the times.

Starting point is 02:09:00 And you and Drain did not let it stop you from being a hardcore band. And there's a lot of lessons to be learned there. Doing these tours, interacting with these bands and all these people, I'm sure you've met a lot of people in your time. Are there any other people of note you've met that are like secret corpsmen that have surprised you, whether it be people in bands or like people in movies and stuff? Okay. Well, corpse grinder has a deep knowledge of hardcore. And specifically like youth crew, like New York. He loves youth to say.

Starting point is 02:09:38 He loves, I don't know if Warzone's youth crew, but G.B. I think he likes New York, Chromeags, AF, stuff like that. Who's really surprised me that knows? Oh, Vinnie Paz, the rapper. He really knows hardcore. Like he knows Turning point Like he really knows hardcore

Starting point is 02:10:03 And were you a big Jedi Mind Tricks guy before ever learning that? You know Andy Williams from every time I die He was the first person I heard really into Jedi Mind Tricks Which is weird because I don't really take him as a hip hop guy But I remember him listening to them and really being into them And I liked them but I got more into them after he,

Starting point is 02:10:30 I became friends with him. But that motherfucker knows hardcore. Like now, New York, emo, he knows all of it. Wow. Who else? Who else knows the core? I heard that rapper Sage Francis from Rhode Island is like, knows the core.

Starting point is 02:10:52 I mean, he was on, he was on epitaph for a minute. Okay. I've heard on him on podcast. say he knows a lot about hardcore and stuff too. He sings on a bad religion song. Nice. Colin, you think, is there a band you've seen more than terror? No.

Starting point is 02:11:07 I don't think so either. Do you want to hear something you're not going to believe? Yeah. And I think I may have contrary, I think I may have said we have earlier. Terror has never toured with agnostic front ever really isn't that we got to change that isn't that bizarre that is what's up with that not even in europe we i hope this isn't the reason why but way way back 15 20 years ago we had a

Starting point is 02:11:42 tour with them and we canceled so maybe they maybe they whiskey dust but you know like i've saying since then i've sang on agnostic front's record do you want to hear a great story about roger Yeah, of course. So, when we covered Madball on an EP, we did a really old Madball song where you can hear Roger's voice in the backups. So I hit up Roger and he did like a voice note of the song and sent it to Nick and Nick mixed Roger into our version of it. and you can hear them if you really listen. Whoa. That's fucking awesome.

Starting point is 02:12:28 Authentic. An authentic color. They just took the stage two minutes ago about a block away. Did they? Yeah, AF is playing tonight. It's all right. We're making, I'll get there while they're playing. It's fine.

Starting point is 02:12:40 Absolutely. We're making history. Wow. Yeah, we got to change that, huh? I mean, Vinnie has talked about how their love for hate breed runs deep because of, because hate breed, like, put on for them while they, during their, grand ascension. So we got to get terror and AF on the road together, finally. I hope so.

Starting point is 02:13:01 We just had Sam from TUI on, and he told us about how touring with terror early flipped their mindset as a band of just like, oh, you don't have to, you can do, you can care. You can do this for real. You can put care and attention into every aspect of touring and being in a band. Terror is a band, and you are a person who has. nurtured the youth. You know, you've tried to lead bands to as a better, you become the example to which to lead bands and to being better, acting better,

Starting point is 02:13:37 having longevity in this world. Is that an active thing that you think about or is that just who you are? No, I think, I think, you know, as you've seen, when when terror goes out with a band we're not the type of people that just disappear to the hotel room or stay out of our backstage

Starting point is 02:14:00 we befriend everybody and a lot of the bands we go on tour with are inspiring us at the same time whether you know those early days when we toured lots of times with trapped under ice we needed that like they came on the scene and were a kick-ass live band making cool people and young energy

Starting point is 02:14:21 we always need that. So as much as we're teaching bands how to, I guess you can still have fun, but take some things serious. And if you want to do this for a long time, you can't burn every bridge. You can't, you know, you can't, you just, you've got to be welcomed back

Starting point is 02:14:41 by promoters and other bands. Within your band, take care of each other. You know, and Tara's not always been the greatest example of all those things I just said but at the same time we need young bands to remind us that it is about being fun

Starting point is 02:15:01 that it isn't all about being fucking to business or whatever and I you know I love to just talk about hardcore with old people older than me or people 20 years younger than me if they can talk about

Starting point is 02:15:19 turning point or if we're going to talk about like all the bands on Reaper, like nayser, or old shit, like straight ahead. Like I'll talk about that with older people, younger people. That's a great way to kill time and make bonds on. Do you remember the first thing you ever said to me, Scott? The first words you ever said to me. I was 14 years old.

Starting point is 02:15:47 Where is this? I think this is like at studio. or something maybe? Oh my God, Studio S. I think I'm wearing something like a marauder shirt or something.

Starting point is 02:15:58 And you just say to me, two words. No context, nothing else. Dying breed. That's not true. That's a fact. That is not true.

Starting point is 02:16:10 Dying breed. And I was like, what? And you were like, check them out. Those are the first words you ever said to me. That's a,

Starting point is 02:16:18 that's some, that's some, the advice terror gave people if I could give that advice to people Hey I mean look at me I worked I put it to use immediately So thank you for that

Starting point is 02:16:33 First two words ever I'll never forget him I never forgot him and look at me I'm the I'm the dying breed guy now I think you did that for a lot of people So we of the community thank you For continuing to do that to this day Something I wonder Scott

Starting point is 02:16:50 you know having been involved with hardcore for 30 plus years there's been some pivotal bands that rise they change they change things as we mentioned earlier who in the modern era are the bands where you vividly remember coming up and just thinking like yeah this this is it okay is trapped under ice the modern era

Starting point is 02:17:14 yes yeah they definitely I mean I'm gonna go back so I think youth today would be one of them for shifting the whole thing to a cleaner, happier thing. We talked about integrity. Yeah. We talked about Earth crisis. Earth crisis.

Starting point is 02:17:37 And in the late 90s, who's changing things? This is a band that I don't particularly love, but they deserve this to be said. I think Unbroken did. Wow. Really shifted things. Right before terror, I could give comeback kid. They kind of did a big splash. They crossed over.

Starting point is 02:18:04 There were random kids in my high school who knew themselves. I mean, the demo was. No warning had a splash. How about A.N? Oh, A.N. had a splash. Yeah. Haybreed. I think I missed Haypreed.

Starting point is 02:18:21 that might be the biggest. Yeah, they kind of, they're beyond splash. Through the whole horizon. Tidal wave. Yeah, yeah. Trapped under ice, splash. Yeah. I mean, turnstile, splash.

Starting point is 02:18:40 Of course. Yeah. Who am I forgetting? Help me out. That's the... I would say in the most recent parlance, like, probably drain. Oh, splash. And it's hard.

Starting point is 02:18:52 And it's hard. to argue with speed. Yeah. Like what speed is doing right now for a band from a place that, you know, has probably statistically one of the smallest scenes in the world as far as like, just people just getting there or whatever. It's crazy. It's amazing.

Starting point is 02:19:08 Yeah. I think tsunami might be in that speed. Big time. Speed drain splash. Yeah. There's a whole, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, a renaissance happening right now. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 02:19:18 We're in it. Where that's beautiful. It is. Life's good. Scott. Scott, yes. Do you always get a hot dog at the movies?

Starting point is 02:19:27 Oh. Interesting. I like hot dogs, though. What made you ask me that? I don't know. Do you have a certain reverence for the band Stained? That's from Martine. I will say they have like two songs that I think are pretty cool.

Starting point is 02:19:52 Weren't they like kind of like heavy prior to the ballad shit? Weren't they like kind of? They were like certified new metal. Like a new ballad though, the one that the dude from a limp biscuit tank. Yeah. The outside on the outside. I'm on me. Don't get me started.

Starting point is 02:20:14 Scott, does the store we never close ever close? How do you know what that is? Oh, no, man. He does this. Does it close? Did Frank give you that? I don't know. Frank's got a thing for we never close.

Starting point is 02:20:30 Does it ever close? I don't think so. I mean, there was that storm last year where five days you couldn't leave your house. I bet they were closed. How is it being a Buffalo resident again? Wonderful. Love it. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:20:45 Zero. When we went to Australia, I stayed in L.A. to sleep because it's like a 33-hour. flight and I did get a burrito in L.A. near L.A.X. Pretty good. Oh, my God. Pretty good, man. Yeah. You know, but hey, tell me about hardcore in Buffalo right now. Is it thriving? It's good. It's good. There's so many shows like Murphy's Laws playing here tomorrow. Slapshot and Ignite Our Plan. That's like older. Shelter just played here. But there's so many young bands. Tell me about the young bands from Buffalo right now.

Starting point is 02:21:22 Spaced is a band on Revelation. Yeah, space is good. They're the band that's like really working. They're great violent ways like an oi band. They work hard to. There's exhibition. Exhibition. There's fatal vision.

Starting point is 02:21:39 There's so many bands. There's so many bands, fatal visions. My brother's band Pure Healed. They're fucking great buried alive and then went to Europe. So your brother's still rocking. Oh, he's rocked. That's fucking awesome. Yeah. He's got a good. He's married. He has a family tattoos for a living, still plays music. He did pretty good for himself.

Starting point is 02:22:03 What were you saying, Bo? It's pure heel. Is that what you said? Yes. And is that heel is in healing or like heel like your shoe? Heal like it's a wrestling term. Like a perfect. The enemy's bad. That's what I was hoping. That's what I was hoping for. I just want to be sure. So Buffalo is strong. Buffalo is, you know, it's hard for me to be the judge of this because I was gone for so long, but people here are saying that Buffalo is in a really good spot and better than it's been. It's hard for me because I support Buffalo no matter what I care about Buffalo, but I was here before I moved to L.A., and it was, the scene was really big. And then I lived in LA for fucking 18 years, which it's hard to compare. Like you can't, like you can't compare almost any scene to L.A. It's endless.

Starting point is 02:23:00 I mean, there's 30 scenes in L.A. Yeah. Yeah. So, and there's, you know, Buffalo's this big. And L.A. is, you know, this big. So it can't, it can't compare. But, yeah, I mean, there's shows all the time. There's cool bands.

Starting point is 02:23:16 there's kids that there's younger kids that really care there's cool venues that there's you know and there's a whole like scene of like more punk DIY catchy stuff there's all sorts of cool stuff and and uh we have the god zero tolerance always looking over us amen fuel the fire uh Scott yes this is a pretty important question have you ever shit your on stage? Oh, no. I mean, I know that you have, but it's okay. We don't, we don't, my pants on stage. I don't, I mean, if we really got to be technical, I've like, uh, sure. Enough said. It's not full. I'm not saying you filled them up, but cotton was touched. You know, you hit the cotton. Yeah. When, when you've been drinking for.

Starting point is 02:24:19 20 days straight and you're sweating and you you yeah trust now did you also hand wash those those boxers in the bathroom oh and keep them because they were quote good boxers I think we have some things I think we have some things that have happened that I was drunk and don't remember and I don't like that that was well that's what the new scott wouldn't do it yeah it's different guy that wasn't I don't have to worry about shitting my pants anymore. Wow. Good.

Starting point is 02:24:52 Well, I'm happy for you. You were there. Where did the hot dogs at the movie come from? That was Andy Williams. Oh, nice. Which tell me about torn with a young Andy Williams. Oh, dude, he was amazing. He was a man.

Starting point is 02:25:09 Now I'm thinking maybe when me and him, because we used to hang out a lot, maybe back then, this thing can't remember back then. You're doing pretty well. Yeah, you're doing very well. So Andy, you know, there wasn't a such thing as a tour manager or a merch guy or anything. Maybe he's, I think at that time you'd bring like two t-shirts and someone would be there most of the time.

Starting point is 02:25:36 But his main job was moshy and he did it very, very, very well. So he would come with us. This was buried alive when we would go play with all out war, reach the sky, death threat. Andy would be with us a lot of the times. And it's great to have someone with you that you know is going to set the tone in the pit. A mosh, Scott, if you will, you know? Yes, yes. Very good.

Starting point is 02:26:03 It's important to have. Very good. A mosh or Mr. Williams? Oh, yeah. I mean, was his first tattoo, a marauderic tattoo? Is that what we discovered? Ooh. Like, is it here on him?

Starting point is 02:26:13 That's something like that. Isn't it just the demo scholar? I think he's got that face, yeah. I could just see him. killing kids in like denim overalls with nothing else. It's just in my mind he's always doing some Andy Williams gimmick. And we haven't even talked about Marauder today. Okay.

Starting point is 02:26:32 Scott, now you would know just from his email, which we won't. A band's so good you might make an email about. Yeah, and you know, we won't repeat his email address, but you'd tell just from that that the man loves Marauder. Do you, did you get Master's Killer the day it came out? I got it before it came out. Could answer. DJ Rose from Syracuse from Path of Resistance and Halo tattoo.

Starting point is 02:26:59 He had, it's like a, it's the jewel slip cover, like the promo. And it was just a black cover. And it had this Marauder M that's on the one shirt. Yeah. And he's just said, hey, I just got this promo CD. you're going to love this and gave it to me. And he was fucking right. I mean, what a fucking record.

Starting point is 02:27:23 The first time I ever heard of Marauder was because you were wearing the demo shirt. I used to have so many. Yeah. That's the first time I read the word Marauder spelled that way. It was because you were wearing it. And I'm just going to put this out there. Scott, I'm sorry to break this news to you. I think I own your demo shirt, Marauder shirt.

Starting point is 02:27:43 Yeah. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I think, I, I, I, I think, I, I, I, I, I think, I, I, I, I think, Did I give you or your brother or your brother with my kickback long sleeve? Oh, that's with me now. Yeah. Like, sometimes I wish I had that stuff, but I'm also okay, given that stuff. But aren't you happier with it? You know, I'm out, I'm going, I show it to somebody that I go, this was Scott.

Starting point is 02:28:01 Yes, I do like that, but I also don't like that. I see that people pay like $800 for that shit because I, it's sickening. Like, I don't need the money, but I can use $800 for a stupid shirt. We can all use it. back in the day if someone if like you had a friend who had a youth today shirt or something

Starting point is 02:28:23 like something or an early AF shirt even or something that you know it might be hard to come by like was there a market for that is that something that people were selling I don't know I just gave all I just I'm just give shit away

Starting point is 02:28:37 I just rather give it away thank you I've held on I have a couple zero tolerance shirts I have I actually I had the when rabies died

Starting point is 02:28:49 they had the benefit shows in New York and has like a crucified skin in all the bands on the back in the date I actually just gave that to Nick from Violent Way that was one of the things I said I'd never give away but still even I probably

Starting point is 02:29:02 that shirt's probably $500 I'd rather someone get it and wear it and be happy than it's sit in my storage space which like so many things have yeah

Starting point is 02:29:14 Yeah. Yeah, for sure. That's what's all about. Of course. Did you ever, were you part of the Reaper, uh, hardcore trading cards ever? Yes.

Starting point is 02:29:24 Can you tell me a little bit about that? Uh, I believe that Kitzel just made cards of all the bands on Reaper, and would just put him in, and I don't think he ever sold them. I think it was like a promo. Wasn't there a Marauder one? that Jorge was bummed about

Starting point is 02:29:46 and then you said okay if you want to talk about it we can talk about it here's my email and you gave him that email I think he was bummed at Kitzel about making those about making those cards and I think he was

Starting point is 02:30:02 bummed at terror because on one with the underdogs on the actual vinyl on the back it's a picture of sob wearing a terror shirt oh that's awesome Yeah, I mean, to me, those things are just, I mean, I have loved Marauder from the minute I've heard them, and there will always be one of my favorite bands.

Starting point is 02:30:31 And I never really got his side of it. I don't think I've, you know, I was never really good friends with him, but he was bummed at Kitzel for that and at terror for putting that. And I mean, to me, that's just like homage. That's love. We love your band. That would be like. I hope one day that I see him and get his, you know, if there's something more of it that I don't know, then I would love to know.

Starting point is 02:30:55 But I've never had anything but full love. Totally. And he's one of the sickest fun men's ever. Holy shit. Just scientifically speaking. That's that's undenized. Voice, stage presence. Moshability.

Starting point is 02:31:10 Yes. It. Shadowboxing. Yeah. Legend. What are you saying, Bo? Oh, I was going to say it would be like, is it Gangstar? Her you're on the other label with?

Starting point is 02:31:22 Yeah, we have a label with me with Guru and Premiere, which is, that's really cool too. It would be like them. I don't know. I just, I realized it was a dumb example, but like, yeah, it's a tribute. It's, you know, the most respectful, obviously. I mean, when I saw a picture of sob wearing a marauder, a terror shirt, I was like, this is the coolest thing ever. So when he passed away, it was kind of like putting it on the record. Of course.

Starting point is 02:31:50 Immortalizing, a photo that meant a lot to you for an artist that meant a lot to you. Amen. Can you tell me about being asked to sing for Hey, Prid for a tour? It wasn't for a tour. It was right when COVID stopped and shows started happening, they were doing a tour with like, mega death and I think Lamb of God and kills with like some big

Starting point is 02:32:17 some real big thing like that and it was going to go into Canada and Jamie wasn't going to be able to make the Canada show so would have been I think it was two or three shows and we were at the point where they're sending me the set list and I'm trying to

Starting point is 02:32:36 you think you know all the words so you actually really have to do it for like 10 songs So this was when terror our first tour back when we did a tour, it was terror drain, dare, and someone else. I'm sorry. I'm forgetting who it was. And so I'm, you know, we're driving every day. I'm listening to hate breed.

Starting point is 02:33:01 I'm listening to hate breed. It's getting closer and closer. They're telling me what I was going to do was, uh, I had to take a COVID test, like a live nation, like a video COVID test where they watched me do it. And I was going to fly to Detroit and rehearse and then cross with them into Canada. And it was pretty stressful. Like those are big shoes to fill. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:33:32 And then at the last minute, the whole tour canceled the Canadian shows. So it never happened. Would have been pretty fucking cool. But probably. So you were going to do it. Oh, fuck yeah. Okay. That's good to know that.

Starting point is 02:33:46 Your answer would be, oh, fuck. What's your favorite? You got a favorite hatebreed song? Like, was there a song on the set list that you were like, I can't wait for this motherfucker? Well, Josta initially sent me a set list. And then I think Bidi vetoed it and wrote me directly and said, hey, I know there's some songs on here you don't really want to do.

Starting point is 02:34:07 Why don't you make your, I don't know if he sent me a more sky. friendly set list or I picked a set list, but it changed at one point. Here's another thing about Martine and Chris, but more Martin. When Terror plays live, those motherfuckers do half the work. Oh, yeah, yeah. Shamy has, their songs are longer than ours and he's so wordy. And I don't have a Martine and Chris to rely on. I don't know if I was going to be able to deliver.

Starting point is 02:34:43 And, you know, it's new, terror songs are like second nature. These would be, and my nerves, it could have went bad, quick. But, like, if I would have been the front man and we would have done like under the knife, just that beginning riff, I may have moshed the band down on stage. Dude, that would have been insane. Frank would have finally got his come up and said that. No, no, no. I'm just kidding.

Starting point is 02:35:22 Well, Scott, let's get into some of the kind of classic hardlore stuff we do. Imagine timeout. Imagine bumping into BD on stage. Yeah, we could go flying. Okay, classic hardloor. I don't know what this is. Some classic hardware stuff. You know, you gave us your top four.

Starting point is 02:35:41 hardcore records. I wonder if that's changed since. Okay, I know I said beyond was the one that I've, the sleeper. You said beyond. I think I said born to expire. And then you said, don't forget the struggle, I believe. That's, that's number one. Could be so many things. Could be killing time. Could be. We're talking albums, right? Well, I think, I think any record, because you can't belittle the hardcore EP. The hardcore EP is kind of the perfect format. Are we talking just New York City right now? No, no. Oh, okay, let's go top. Can I say top five, let's do something crazy.

Starting point is 02:36:24 Top five hardcore records that were not in the state of New York. I love it. This isn't going to be an order and I'm just going to rattle some off. Turning point, always darkest. Love it. Chain of strength is definitely on there. Oh, there's so many. Like I can go Lifetime or E-Town. Yes, you can. Hot Water music is not a hardcore band.

Starting point is 02:36:54 They can't be on there. No, no. I veto that. The Brotherhood, either the 7-inch or the 12-inch. I think we're at 5. I'm just going to leave it there. We got Brotherhood Chain. Confront could be on there.

Starting point is 02:37:10 Integrity could be on there. Ringworm could be on there. Ringworm could be on there. there. Oh, man. Anything from Connecticut could be on there. Oh, my God. Dude.

Starting point is 02:37:17 Under death threat. Death threat is on there. That's what I'm saying. Dude. Unbelievable. Yeah. That was great. Those are great answers.

Starting point is 02:37:25 I think it's really cool that modern terror will throw in a death threat cover. Like, I love that. I'll do it every night if I could. And modern terror is Buffalo, the Valley, with. Midier, Maine, and Toronto, Canada. That was Todd's idea to do the dead at birth. Really? That Todd guy's smart.

Starting point is 02:37:53 He is the gift that keeps on giving. God damn. All right, so also went on tour with terror. I know your dietary habits have all changed drastically. And now you're in a much different place. You're not giving me 40 euros to get you five Big Macs anymore. What? That sounds good.

Starting point is 02:38:13 I don't. So if terror is touring now, what's the, the food spot that gets everybody excited that you universally agree upon is the place to stop? They have that.

Starting point is 02:38:27 Perfect. Let's go. Can I tell you, this isn't like, I've obviously listened to your podcast before, and I know it's usually like a fast food. Can I give you the reality?

Starting point is 02:38:40 Yeah, please. Terror has been very lucky that for the last year or two, we've been in a bandwagon. So what terror does, we drive every morning to Walmart. We park at Walmart and we have a refrigerator. So this means a few things. Everyone can go in Walmart and get groceries and cook for themselves or every, every Walmart is surrounded by many fast food restaurants. Yeah, right.

Starting point is 02:39:18 I have a pizza problem right now. I eat a lot of pizza. What's the problem? It sounds like a pulling pizza solution. As Dan Sealy, he can't believe that I eat pizza like all the time. Dude, a slice of pizza is. unbelievable. Oh, I've been on a pizza kick lately that I'm like fighting to kick. Yeah, it's hard. And it's the, it's the thought is just so persistent and brutal. I like that the voice of terror

Starting point is 02:39:53 kind of had the perfect touring answer for that question, by the way. That's true. Like the answer that makes the most sense for everyone is yeah, go to Walmart. There's lots of stuff. Yeah, but I know Martine is exploring the lots of stuff, you know, I can hear him going, dude. Another thing, too, is everyone in terror is not scared to walk. So we'll, you know, if there's a Starbucks 20 minutes away, we'll go. It's the whole world is out there. Walk 20 minutes, go to Starbucks, walk 20 more minutes and get, you know what's a really good underrated thing? A whopper.

Starting point is 02:40:31 Oh, man. Dude, a wopper. Classic American sandwich, but the Burger King QC is in the dumpster right now. Yeah, it can be... The quality control is dead last. You can be rough, for sure. I like Panera bread, too, if I'm trying to be healthy. Second ever Panera bread answer.

Starting point is 02:40:54 That's true. And we don't do it very often, but I like it. Oh, you know what I like a lot lately? Jersey Mike's turkey song. That's fucking good. The Italian from Jersey Mikes with the cherry pepper. The cherry pepper relish. Oh.

Starting point is 02:41:11 We're big fans of Jersey Mike. Big fans. We're purveyors of Mike. That's good. So touring now is a lot different for you than it used to be. What is, what's a day in the life on tour for terror like for each member? Tell me about what each person is doing. We're in the U.S.?

Starting point is 02:41:33 Yeah. We're in the U.S. Nick is driving, right? Me and Nick wake up first. I do yoga, but it's more like glorified stretching for my body as I need it. It's not yoga like real yoga people do. Sure. Well, you'll like this.

Starting point is 02:41:54 I wake up and weigh myself. If I'm good, I'll go eat a donut almost every day. Wow. Donut, coffee, yoga, walk, clean the bandwagon. get a haircut, do laundry, if it's around. Play the show, take a shower, watch something on my iPad, go to sleep. That's, that's me. That's the Scott Vogel day.

Starting point is 02:42:20 Tell me about a Nick day. Nick wakes up and runs 500 miles. Nick's, Nick wakes up early, watches a lot of running and bike races on his phone, runs and dude Nick will run for like two hours like normal like I'm just gonna go running for two hours. He's an animal, dude

Starting point is 02:42:42 he's an animal. And then plays drums at the end of the end of the Yeah right. Like that's not And that drives. Nick likes to eat but he's vegan. Plays showers go to bed. We're like

Starting point is 02:42:56 we're very Sympatico. Yeah. Martin will be the last one up usually him and Dan sleep the most because they stay out the latest. They still are very social. Martin socializes, likes to go out every night, whether it's, you know, he still gets drunk sometimes, but he loves karaoke, but also likes to just like go out and eat and socialize and be around people. Like,

Starting point is 02:43:25 for me, he was built for Tor. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm very anti-social. Now, Link is somewhere in the middle. Sure. Link will sleep semi-late, but not too late. Link's the person when you cross the border. You have to, like, tell him five times to get up. He, like, gets in this coma. He also eats kind of crappy.

Starting point is 02:43:50 He likes sweets. He sometimes runs always in a good mood. Link is the person. He's always just happy. He's got a lot of energy. He's like a 70% go out at night and comes home later, but not as late as Martine. Okay. Jordan's kind of down the middle.

Starting point is 02:44:18 Jordan's lifting weights. Jordan, no, he does a lot of weird push-ups and like- Oh, like calisthenics. He takes care of his body, but not with weights. He is very particular. His day revolves around where he eats and what time. Nice. Like where I'm searching for a laundry mat, he's searching for a healthy restaurant.

Starting point is 02:44:42 But me and him are on different food schedules. Like I try to eat like four hours before we play. He tries to eat like right around 6 o'clock or something. But his day revolves around a nice walk and two good meals. He still gets drunk sometimes and goes out. But sometimes he stays and doesn't go out. He's like, if, if, If Link's 70% go out, Jordan's like 60.

Starting point is 02:45:11 Okay. Jordan, if, attending the listeners, Jordan, Jordan has a personality that is like indescribable, where it's, it's very magnetic but very subdued. But when you get real, when you get to know him, it's very Costanza-esque. Yes. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:45:26 That being said, if you get him on a topic like Seinfeld or like a guitar tone that he's really partial to. He's unbelievable. I mean, even if I start, talking bad religion with him. Oh, really? Yeah. He'll never live down that Harmsway crushed

Starting point is 02:45:41 terror, aka him, in Seinfeld trivia. He couldn't, he can't, he can't live with it. That's a big feat, though. We had a ringer, to be fair. We had this guy, we had Peter, Peter Cookies. He's like a crazy

Starting point is 02:45:57 encyclopedia, but I can hold my own, you know. But I think it was, it was Scott and Jordan, me and Peter, Dan and who did Dan play with oh James I think it was Dan and James and they like they were doing so bad

Starting point is 02:46:12 Dan and James that they just sabotaged they just started fucking up everyone else on purpose he says if we can't win no one will he says Harmsway had a ringer and I was drunk and that's why he couldn't he couldn't hold that we gotta get a live

Starting point is 02:46:27 rematch on I would love that Seinfeld trivia that that game I bought it it and I've bought it more than once, but one of the time I bought it and we played it a few times and then I'd be like, eh, all sights never want to play and Jordan was like, uh, not today. And I took it outside and threw in the dumpster in front of him and he's like, you're such an idiot. Classic Scott. Stupid, the new, the new Scott would never.

Starting point is 02:46:55 Stupid temperate. That's old, Scott. Do you have any fond memories of that summer where we hung out every day, Scott? hiking friends That was pleasant cryotherapy oh that too dude I forgot about that

Starting point is 02:47:09 Did that is that work I don't know Yeah yeah I've tried it And I can never really tell I don't know but a guy I think of anything It woke you up and made you like energetic

Starting point is 02:47:19 I don't think it hurt But yeah No it's like the cold plunge thing Where it's like more effective than caffeine It's the most that's the most common Instagram ad I get is for a fucking Like on your deck get a cold plunge I'll never do it.

Starting point is 02:47:32 I don't have a deck. I don't think I could do it. I'm like, if a pool, if we're like somewhere in a pool is semi-cold, I'm like, no, thank you. I don't want to be uncomfortable. I'm with you. I want to be warm.

Starting point is 02:47:47 Scott, have you ever seen a ghost? No. No, no, no. Are you open to it? I'd rather not. Rather not. Would you believe it if you did? If I did, I would.

Starting point is 02:48:06 But I don't know. I don't know. It's something. I know this is something you guys talk about. It's something that I have no interest in. Wow. Well, what if they have interest in you and you don't know it? That's why they don't leave him alone.

Starting point is 02:48:19 Stay away. You just told them yourself, buddy. Get him. All right. Well, that's fine. That's cool. No, I like that. Scott, not into ghosts.

Starting point is 02:48:33 Vogel. I just, I have no interest. No, that's cool. That's fine, I guess. It's October, but, you know, now that this is when this is airing, but it's fine. Also, Halloween. Oh, come on, man. Oh, you're not a creepy crawler, huh? You weren't really into the Danzig reference earlier.

Starting point is 02:48:52 Do you, you fuck with the misfits at all? We went, a terror recently played with the misfits at that, uh, something in Ohio. one of those festivals Yeah Rock Hyio Oh no it was Sonic Temple Yeah I lasted about two songs Went to bed

Starting point is 02:49:11 That's like two minutes Wow Couldn't couldn't agree there But You know we're near We're kind of We're winding down here big time Scott this has been so pleasant

Starting point is 02:49:26 And I told you we'd pretty much hit that three hour mark I wouldn't line Yeah You see that? Can you do that? Scott, we want to thank you both of us for being who you are and who you have been because the impact, I don't know if you realize how often terror comes up on this show. It's probably once an episode.

Starting point is 02:49:50 And just kind of whether it's example of how to tour or how to do music or how to maintain your principles as a band and as like people, terror fits all. of those things really well. And that's really what this whole show is about. So I want to say on behalf of both of us and myself particularly, thank you for the last 23 years and before that with everything else, but specifically for everything that Tara has done and sharing with us on the show and all this stuff. It was really, I found myself like sitting and just like listening to stories during this whole episode. And it was awesome. You know, I just really appreciate it. thank you for saying that and yeah i got to get a lot of credit to the all the members of

Starting point is 02:50:37 terror from day one till now but like we've said a few times terrors like the people we have right now it's really a cool thing and i think everyone within the band has helped each other grow and be better people and i think we're having fun and i think you know like uh behind the scenes like Vitalo has done some really great stuff for terror and with his other bands that terror gets to reap the benefits of. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's hard being a band after 23 years. It's hard for me sometimes to leave the house and, and go on tour again. But like, we're in such a good place now and our shows are good. And like, the way you're thanking me, anyone that hears this that

Starting point is 02:51:26 comes to terror shows and goes off for us and sings along and you guys saying nice things about us none of it is taken for granted like we've had such a hard ride but more than that it's been awesome and we've got to do so much we're so lucky and

Starting point is 02:51:48 to be able to do it this long has been pretty incredible and you know you're thanking us but thanks right back to you for having me and saying nice things about terror and everybody that's listening to this that supports terror it really really means the world well i mean right back at you i second everything beau said terror is a once-in-a-lifetime band going on lp10 without changing evolving the entire time but never never sacrificing your your integrity, your morals, your beliefs. Terror is, uh, is timeless, one of a kind. We appreciate everything you've contributed. Scott, if you've got any last closing remarks for the people,

Starting point is 02:52:35 I would love to hear them. So the only thing I didn't work into this whole thing is, all I listen to lately is sunny day real estate. And I don't know why, but I'm like literally addicted to them right now. So they're a very odd band. Just as hot water music is maybe people wouldn't think I would really like as much as I do. Like the singer of Sunday Real Estate sings so high sometimes. I'm like, how am I listening to this? But for some reason, they're so good to me. So if you're looking for some mellow music that I think is really great, check out Sunnady Real Estate. I like it.

Starting point is 02:53:22 Wow. So that's your tour playlist right now is Sunny Day Real Estate. Anything else? Podcasts and Sunday Day Real Estate. Literally, that's it. Love it. Well said. Words of wisdom.

Starting point is 02:53:35 Scott, I would love for you to make a playlist for this episode. Wow. Okay. What do I do? Of just whatever you want. I've just things you, things that represent Scott right now. I would like to.

Starting point is 02:53:46 And I'll put it up. We'll put it up with this episode. What's my, uh, time what's my window oh you got you have weeks okay cool just remind me i'll be have just do a do a playlist on spotify and yeah and you sent it to me and i'll and i'll i'll remake it and it'll be out to the world i'll be happy to do it just remind me please last question i want this is this is more personal i just want to know do you is there an under a terror record you think is most underrated in the catalog i can tell you mine i can tell you mine it's the damn the shame

Starting point is 02:54:21 My least favorite. You know this. You're wrong. I love the ringworm split, specifically the version. The Terra songs, the versions of those songs on that split. I mean, the Carl backups. Unreal. I always think about when there's these conversations and that people say different records, I just think it's really cool that we don't just

Starting point is 02:54:54 have that one record. We have several. So it tells me we've done something right for a while. So I'm glad when people like the ones that I don't like so much because it's spread the wealth. I don't know if that's a word of term. Of course. Very fair. Well done. Well said.

Starting point is 02:55:15 Scott, thank you again for joining us. This has been one of my favorite episodes of all time. I'm sure Beau agrees. You know, come back anytime. Yeah. When you need to talk hardcore, let me know. I'm happy to. Maybe we'll, maybe we need to talk to you about hip hop sometime, too, because we need to learn. Yeah, we got to be educated.

Starting point is 02:55:37 Get me and Jay from Mindforce on to talk hip hop. That could be cool. That would be fun. That would be fun. What a day. That would be fun. It would be fun. All right. All right. Well, that concludes this episode. Thank you all so much for watching and listening. Thank you, Scott, for joining us. We will see you next week. Bye.

HardLore - Scott Vogel (Terror)

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