HardLore - The Ballad of Sean Martin

Episode Date: April 27, 2022

Colin and Bo speak with inaugural guest Sean Martin (Hatebreed, Twitching Tongues, Kid Cudi) about everything from his early touring days with Hatebreed, all the way up to his recent treks around the world with Colin in Twitching Tongues.   HardLore: A Knotfest Series, Fueled by Monster Energy Edited by Steven Grise • Title sequence by Nicholas Marzluf Join the HARDLORE PATREON to watch every single weekly episode early and ad-free, alongside exclusive monthly episodes. Join the HARDLORE DISCORD for community discussions and to participate in our future Q&A episodes. FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER, SPOTIFY, APPLE FOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAM FOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER   For sponsorship opportunities, email us! [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello and welcome to Hardlore Episode 3. Oh, wow. It is three. This is three. Because the last one was... Technicality. Yeah, right. They'll never know that that was just one 90-minute session, but...

Technicalities. This is... Who we got today, Colin. What a beautiful day to see my blood relative, Sean Martin. For the first time in three years. Sean. It's been so long. Thanks for coming, man. Thanks for having me. It's good to see you guys.

Owner of one of my favorite guitars I've ever seen. Oh. That that Les Paul custom. Do you mean this one, though? Oh! I fucking love that guitar. It's perfect.

It's always by my side. So it's right there. One pickup. Ready to rock. I can't believe that you didn't play that Les Paul for like a year with Twitching time. Yeah, it was, you know, you weren't the only person. I had a lot of comments in my personal life about not playing a less fall. It was like people that have nothing to do with like, like family members commenting on me not playing a less fall.

You were like, you were like Uncle Buck going into the party with the hat on. It was like, they'll kill you for not for not using the last fall. Yes. And it was, but I needed a caler. I wanted to get down. I wanted to, we were shredding. Yeah, right. You got that Hanaman, right?

You got the Hanamon model? Yeah, I love that thing. And it plays just like a less paw. I don't care. People can hate on me for saying that. But you can't because I've been playing a Les Paul for mad long. I could say that. It feels the same.

It's bad the neck, the balance, everything. So I feel super comfortable playing it, but it's got a caler. And I could fucking pick it up with the fucking bar. And Lord. And Lord did you, man? And I think that's a good opportunity to kind of to intro. of this as like the year is 2015

we just Twishing Tongue just recorded disarmony whole band leaves to do other bands and Taylor and I are in panic mode and send a

I don't even know what to call it it was just an email that was like It was a cold email I might as well like to us Taylor sent the email

So, like, Sean Martin as a guitar player is the first live musician I ever saw. And you and I have spoken about this. Like, like my first experience seeing live music was seeing hate breed. Oh, really? I didn't know that. And then just total full circle. So you really got, you really got. I feel bad.

I'm so sorry. No, no, no. No, no. This is such a bad thing. And then it cuts to us to some van in Europe. and I'm like, you little shit. Boy, it does it. But Taylor sends this email that's just like, yeah, I emailed Sean Martin,

but like I guess we should start looking at, like, realistic things. And then like a week later, you were like, yeah, I'll do the tour. And then two days later, you were like, yeah, I'll do the other tour. And then two days after that, it was like a lamb goat ad mat of like. Sean Martin, he's back. Return the king. Never met. Yeah.

But we just knew, you know? That's crazy. I assumed you guys had known each other. Never met these guys. I just said, we had a lot of mutual friends, though. And like those definitely. And I liked the band. I had already liked, I thought switching tongues was great.

I thought it was obviously something a little different at the time. And like I just, and then I knew dudes that knew them. and it was just like, I was like, yeah, I backed them. And it was funny because I tattoo and I was working at a shop in Massachusetts with Jamie who plays drums for death threat. And I was working at his shop. And a bunch of cats came through on tour, like dudes from misery. The misery in Austin was playing with them.

And a bunch of people, but anyway, a bunch of people came through the tattoo shop. And I went to the show afterwards. And I was kicking it. And I was talking to people like that I met that night that were in some of those bands and stuff. And I brought up twitching tongues like where I was like, yeah, like, I don't know a lot of the newer stuff, but I like twitching tongues. Like, that band is awesome. Like, and dudes were like, oh, yeah, those are our boys, like, blah, blah, blah, like kind of like, and then the next time I saw a couple of those dudes, I was in twitching tongues. Like, it was so great. Like, and it wasn't like, it was completely like, it was completely organic. I just felt really, I don't know, man, anybody that has the balls. I don't mean it to sound like that. It's not like, yeah, it's like, I don't think, I don't think it's out of line. Like, I'm not like fucking ink, Mounstein but like I don't know this person and I'm just gonna fucking ask him to fucking do a for us Sean like respect like yo what's up I'm down like fucking doing fucking infinity symbols over here

for a living one fucking Sean Sean you are my ink thing momstein that and that's what I'm trying to say is like it's I'm not exactly the first live musician I ever saw was a guy who 20 years or what 17 years later I was in seven years later. No, no. I think for me, that would be like, that would be like fat Mike from No Effects joining Harm's Way. See?

That's, that's what it would be for me. That's my Sean Martin. But then, but then, like, we spent five minutes together and it was like, oh, like, dude, it was instant.

It was instant. Yeah, it was like, and I'm like, like, I don't know if it's just because of my upbringing or whatever, but I'm very, I'm very cavalier with like, I'm fine. I'm very comfortable with my own skin.

Like, I'm never like, I've never felt, like if I'm going somewhere I'm going somewhere confidently and not I'm not I just like cool these like obviously we're on the same level I don't know these dudes I'm getting picked up at an airport by one of them and a bunch of my dudes

fucking back them like a bunch of my good friends think these guys are fucking awesome so that's good enough for me yeah so blah blah blah and then fucking within 10 minutes of knowing them it's just like oh wait we might actually be related somehow like this is hilarious it was it was legit like a single conversation and like going through the Starbucks drive-thru, you and I were like, oh, we're the same.

So we were, when we thought about having you on, like, the idea would be to touch on if you have any favorite kale moments. Oh, man. I feel like we got to say, that's the grand finale. Oh, is that the end? Fair enough, what can I say? Cale, Cale, Cale, Sane. Life with Cale is my favorite Cale moment. There's so, there's a lot.

shout out Kail if you're watching this Shout out Kail I mean that with all the love of my heart I imagine he is watching this Kail played drums and twitching tongues Ghost main misery all these other bands He's a legend in the game

I don't care what anybody says And a lot of people don't say anything Cail don't get fucking crazy What are they saying? Jesus Christ He you know Traveling with him is an experience Unlike no other

And in the moment You're like you must pay kale but then but then six months later you're thinking about it and you're and you're sharing the experience with someone you're like oh that was the greatest thing to ever happen so yeah he's he's like a he's like a he's a high point of any like and then this motherfucker and then that like you know no matter what's going on and then you throw a little kale on top there's a couple there's a couple kale quotes that come to me once a day I definitely have a couple stories in my brain too

because I saw him last time I saw him was touring with Ghost Maid when we toured with Ghost Maid so he was doing that whole thing too he's wearing masks and yeah just being a weirdo you know like to his delight you know yeah yeah all right

Sean what what is like the first couple shows with switching tongues like when you joined after practicing after getting to know everybody does anything stand out it was cool

I hadn't played out I know a little bit like I hadn't played in a while like played out in a while so it was fun just to just to play a show like a real show because it hadn't been

like honestly like it'd been a while since I like I did Hey Breed and then I was in Kikuddy for a while and that was like fucking arenas and shit

like not even talking shit like it was just really good to play a fucking show like a real like where I come from even it was in L.A. like Yeah.

Just a lot of good friends were there. A lot of people I hadn't seen in a minute and this and that. And it was so is cool. It was the first couple shows with Twitch and Tons was great on a lot of levels, just because I felt great to be playing again in that atmosphere and in that genre, if you will. And like it was exciting. And I didn't really know these guys, but I had a great connection with them right away. And everything just clicked musically.

Like, it just felt really good. And the shows were fucking crazy and awesome. And it was just great. to be back in my natural environment, it felt, you know, and I've been away from it for a little bit, you know, maybe a couple of years at that point. So, Colin, do you remember what the shows were or tour was? Yeah, it was the disharmedia record release shows, which is just insane. Before those, we did the music video.

Right, the music video. Yeah, yeah. Which is hilarious. And I filmed that. I filmed that in Connecticut at the graveyard by my house. Like, that's so great. Never met. Oh, really?

We never met. Made a video together before we ever met. Wow. That's cool. We remoded him in, but we did the Disharmony video with the old lineup. And then like a month later had to do the video for the second single with this new lineup, which was Anthony, Sean and our beloved kale. Yeah. And the rest of us are just playing in this one room while Sean is at home in the graveyard 70 feet from his house.

and it was awesome it was like it's something I just ran what you shot like through this I recorded it with the camera that we shot that yeah you guys had an actual VHS camera and that you're like I know you did some actual lofi awesome shit

which rules and that video to this day is like one of the most fun I've ever had like create yeah video's great and it was so good you know and that was a you know I got to say like that was it was really great I was really, like, it felt really good to be being in a creative zone. And I didn't even know you guys yet, but you, it felt nice to be included in that aspect.

At that point, because I was like, whatever, I don't even know. Like, I was not, I wasn't like being, like, dismissive about it, but I didn't, I hadn't met anybody yet, but I technically had joined the band without meeting them anyway. So it didn't matter. So, like, yeah, we'll do the video and anything. And I was, like, I was pumped on it. Like, I was like, this is fun as fuck. It was like the kind of shit.

Like, I felt like, uh, I, no. disrespecter. No, my boys, all my dudes, every band I ever been and everybody I collaborated with are still my good friends and everything's all good. But it was fun to, like, being a band as dumb as it sounds with, like, dudes that were like a lot younger than me and who kind of got taking the piss out of stuff a little bit, but like dead serious and like it was just the energy was really good. And I was like, fuck, I'm fucking kind of psyched about this. It's like, I got my wife filming me in a graveyard playing guitar. I'm like 85 years old. I'm like, this rules. I fucking love this.

Like it's fucking, but it was like so cool because we made it happen. And when those dudes put it together and showed with me, I was like, oh, these dudes, all right, they got their shit together. I like they're making it happen themselves. Like, that was really impressive. I wore a leather jacket in a pool, brother. I was, I was so great. I was letting you know right away. I think that's still

your picture when you call me, I think. And who's floating in the pool? Is it Brody or is it Anthony? Anthony. Anthony. Kim hit him with the frying pan. That's right. Yeah. Oh, that video is great. But yeah. And all my dudes at home were stoked. Like everybody was really happy.

Like they were pumped that I was like fucking going to play again. So like whatever. I wasn't never totally retired or anything. But like I was kind of just going deeper into doing tattooing and like kind of not really worrying. Yeah, I didn't care at that point. You were born to play. Yeah. Thanks.

And I feel like down the road when we got to do gaining purpose and we actually made a record together and you got to flex your solo muscles. it was like aside from the Converge song that you played on it was like yeah like you know yeah no one knew I knew how to actually play nobody knew and you it was like oh you're actually unbelievable at guitar there's that clip in the stop oh stop there's that clip in the in like the metal blade making of where Sean you accidentally hit a harmony oh yeah that is becoming part of this song and it's fucking awesome you know but it but it's just it's not you know obviously happy accident, whatever, but it's the realization on your face when everyone goes, whoa, you know. Yeah.

Yeah. And that happened constantly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was fun to be in an environment where I was able to just like know that this shit was getting like, not that it wasn't. It's like, it was just cool to be in a little bit. I was still playing awesome riffs with my friends, a new group of friends.

But then it's like, oh, we could, it's a little more, less restrictions. But I left you two spots to solo on in this song. Yeah. So how soon after those shows did we do our, was that the same year that we did our tour? Yeah, that was right after. That was that tour. That was that tour. Yeah, technically it was the beginning of that tour.

The first two days were in California. In Texas. We met up in Dallas. Yeah. Dude, Chris Mills driving the harm's way van, stop and go traffic, rear ended a guy on the way to that show. Oh, fucking awesome. classic cook. By himself?

No, we were all in. We were all in and I don't even know. He wasn't even like looking at his phone or something. He just didn't expect. And he just like, and the guy didn't stop. Nothing, it was nothing.

The guy just was like said fucking kept driving. But we didn't become, but still enough to ask some stress. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Remember that show. Didn't dieing fetus play like right around the corner? Oh, I don't. Oh, yeah. I think they did. Yes. Yeah.

Or. Yeah. Some, yeah, I think so. No, there was something else going on right around the corner. Was it, was it Dallas? Yeah, it was Dallas in a room. Yeah, it was Dallas and there was some other show going on like when we were like, oh, great. Yeah, yeah.

That was kind of the whole vibe of that tour. That was like, that was another show going on. Oh, great. Yeah, I mean. Oh, right down the road. Yeah, all right. Perfect. Yeah, that tour.

So there was also, so Disharmonie had come out and Rust had come out. and, you know, there was like a joint headlining record release tour. And it wasn't great. Wasn't great. And that was kind of, that, that set the tone of just like us playing disharmoning disharmonies songs to begin with. It was like, it was like, oh, we shouldn't play these. And nope, it's not.

Yeah. It ain't, it ain't working. You know, it happens. It definitely, yeah. I mean, it's the same. We play one Russ song. these days. But you could play more of us.

We could play more, but it's the same kind of, we like the other stuff better. You know, it happens. And then like just you, you gauge what, who's doing what to what song. And it's like, ah, okay,

I guess we got to do other stuff. Yeah. So, yeah, we were in Texas. And then I, we kind of went towards Florida. We played an off show without you guys. Didn't we play the skate park on that one in Tampa?

No. Maybe I'm getting a couple of them confused. We played there a couple times, but I can't remember now. But yeah, and then I really can't, yeah, I know we started in Dallas and then we made our way west. It's all a blur. We started together in Dallas. Yeah. But I can't.

And it ended in Chicago. I think it felt like kind of an eventful tour because of just the lack of good shows. I can remember a couple. Shut up. I could definitely remember. Dude, do you remember North Carolina? No It was in Raleigh or I think Raleigh

North Carolina and it was a huge room Raleigh Raleigh And during World War 5 Like all of the young and in the way guys Like murder I do remember that Remember that it was the venue's last show

So people were tearing shit off the wall They were like pictures of Famous artists who'd like breaking shit off Like I remember that Yeah A lot of lot of it is just I think it was a like I I had a hard time dealing with the response of the record so yeah yeah you were you were quiet about it in hindsight I realized you were going through hell

dude I was I was seeing fucking helicopters and IEDs blown up like everything like for me like I realized it as we were um so like joining the band at that point and then like getting to be actual life friends like and then touring and then making music together and the whole thing it really put things in the perspective as to how you were affected by the reception of disharmoning i don't mean that like i mean gaining purpose is basically a response like you know what i mean but like you know but like it was like also awesome to see you empowered by yeah fuck you this is what i do yeah totally if you don't if you don't like my decisions with my art per se like fucking then fuck you like And that's okay.

Because disarmony fucking rips, dude. Like, I wouldn't have joined the fucking band if Taylor sent me that record. And I thought it sucked. And that, you know, I remembered that. And it was like, oh, okay. Sean likes it. So. Yeah.

Like, but I don't have some critical agenda. Like, I'm not trying to be cool. And I'm not like, no, no shit talking or anything. But like, like, I was, like, I'm not trying. I don't, my opinion is just honest. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, these dudes fucking this shit is sick. I want to do.

What? Like, this fucking riff is why. like listening to shit back, rewinding, like, yo, what the fuck? Like, I was psyched on it because it was really heavy. And I understand that that's, I also understood that it was a departure from the sound that you guys were known for, which made sense for me in my mind to kind of slide in if it was going in that direction. Like, I was just like, fuck, these are fucking wild-ass riffs.

Like, sick. They are. And it's like, we kind of were like, oh, should we not do that? because of the response it was like oh should we do less wild riffs right yeah but like not if that's what you want to do and that's what gaining purpose was it was like hey let's just do

what I want to do not worry it was uh it was cattle decavitation by the way not dying fetus I just remember yes another another thing I remember is playing in Cleveland at that bar

the bar oh yeah now that's class now that's class yeah and being in the basement and sub-zero. But suddenly I found myself alone in a room with Sean Martin, who I, you know, just met on the tour, and human furnace. Oh, yeah. And they're just talking.

And, like, one of my first tattoos is a ringworm tattoo. You know, I have a huge ringworm guy. Oh, that's great. So I was just like, oh, shit. Dude, I have a great furnace story. Oh, dude, he's the, he is a great furnace story himself. He just is. So one of the greatest people in all my life that I've ever met.

Sorry. Isolation had just come out and we're playing Summer of Hate in Cleveland. And we only have vinyl of isolation. And I see Furnace and I, you know, we're, I'm fucking young. This was like 12 years ago now, you know, 10, 11 years. And so I go up to him like, hey man, love your band, huge, you know, blah, blah, blah. My band just put out this record, like, I'd love for you to check it out, you know? And it's like noon on a Saturday.

And I'm handing him a full LP. And he goes, thanks, man. You got any CDs? I just had to be like, no, man. And then on the post-human headliner, Ringworm was direct support. And I told him about it. I was like, do you remember this? And he was like, no, but you ever thought 10 years later I'd be fucking opening up for you?

I built in for I feel there was a tour that was Nails Bitter End ringworm and new lows and I played drums for new lows on it I remember that And John glue from Nails referred to him To his face

The entire time as the human thermos Oh my God Like not even thinking about it Like not maliciously? No, not at all. He's like, he's like, thinks he's awesome. He's like, dude, human thermos sounded fucking unbelievable. Dude.

And, and like, you and I, like, I met human furnace properly through you. Like at that show, the Cleveland show, that just all came back to me is eating, eating Taco Bell at like two in the morning with Sean Martin and Human Thermis. The Human furnace. Jesus Christ. Just being like, damn, this is pretty sick. but yeah human human thermos has stuck with me

for for 10 11 years now since that tour I fucking love ringworm he liked it so this is yo he loves all we call Hunan Furn Furn has been a lot of things Fern Furn is good

Fern yeah I don't think he'd like that one but didn't stop me something I learned very He's the best that's like he really is one of the best dudes and all my and all my travels like meeting people from all over the place

playing in bands like furnaces is like obviously him and three gun they're like still oh my god still like great friends of mine like but like man like fucking so grateful that i got to meet them guys and become life friends with them you know after after doing those couple tours of hay breed that we did and like i got to be friends with frank like he oh yeah he and i like what a funny little friendhip of it is now like he and i just talk about kiss all the time and he'll just text me like he'll text me like twice a year and he'll just say like hey best friend how you doing uh Something I learned very early touring with Sean is it's like, you know how you can like scroll through Wikipedia and get from like Apple to Vladimir Putin in like three clicks?

Yeah, yeah. There's like with talking to Sean, something will lead to this time me and Bedey blank. So like there's there's like a there's like a Sean Martin. Oh yeah, this one time me and Chris Bedey. story for like any when I when I say those when I say those words to you can you give me something if just you this time me and Bddy if I say uh I don't know fucking mason jar can you can you get me to a Chris Bitty story I would say yeah this one time being Chris Bidie was drinking moonshide out of a mason jar

and then we got probably pretty drunk and may not have thrown a bunch of stuff around and raised a lot of you know like yeah raised a lot of hell i'm sure but yeah we've definitely drank moonshine out of a mason jar together so yes you can probably just throw anything out there and i could find something it's a try and tested formula yeah yeah like we have a lot of adventures man that that that you know chris is obviously like all those dudes what i love him man like there's no when i like when i like left the band. It was never any beef or anything. And everybody knows that. But like, they really are my good friends forever.

Like me and Beattie are still. Beattie does real estate with my, he works for my wife's real estate. Oh, shit. So, like, it's family forever. But like, me and Beattie just were like, two peas in a pod when I joined the band, you know, it's just like, uh, all right. It's like kind of like, whatever.

Just dude from Bridgeport, a dude from Waterbury, not scared of anything. He's just traveling around. When, uh, what year did you joined the band? I joined the band in 90. I joined the band one year after satisfaction, like November, October, November, 98. And what was that?

Yeah. Like, did you know, did you know you were joining like you were going to sit on a rocket ship, basically? No. No. But like I didn't, I didn't want to join hate brief. Like they were, Boulder was trying to get me to join for a while. and I was just kind of like, I was in 100 demons, and then I was also in death threat.

So like, but I wasn't like, I was like a sub for death threat. Because again, my dudes, man, like fucking errands to this day. I don't speak with them that much, but only because we're old and living our lives, but like, fucking one of the best friends I ever made in my life. So I was always a sub for death threat at that point. And then I was in 100 demons. So I was not unhappy. Right.

I was just like, you know, I was a roofer. Like, I don't know. I was just like fucking living a regular ass life plane. and these bands having fun playing shows and shit. But, so Boulder was always trying to get me to join, get me to join. Like, I have, I got to, I found them when I moved, and I have, like, cassettes from my old answering machine of Boulder, like, talking shit to me. Oh, man.

That's so good. Like, I know you're listening to this. I know you're listening to your answering machine right now. Real, real while I'm leading this message, you fucking asshole. Just join the fucking band. Stop being a fucking asshole. Like, all this shit. Like, it's so funny.

And then I finally, they asked me to do a tour with them. And they were able to like, you know, they said, we'll be able to give you this much to do the tour. And I was like, yeah, all right, cool. I'll just do the tour and fucking, you know, cool. See what happens. I'm seeing a pattern. And then, yeah, right? Yeah, right?

It's like how I'm going to life. But then, and then I was in 100 demons at the time. And those guys weren't too happy about me taking that tour. So then that kind of led to me having to make a decision. and then I just decided that if, you know, if I have to make a decision, then I'll go with the people that aren't asking me to make a decision. It was that simple. So then I joined April full time and I was like, all right, I guess this is what I'm doing.

Like, fuck. And then I was still roofing full time and like just being a maniac like, you know, just really living some wild ass lifestyle roofing and just living in Waterbury and then doing a tour with them and like coming back and being on the block and like where the tattoo shop ended up being for 20 years. years and stuff was this wild-ass neighborhood and water beer that I always hung out in. So I was just always there like hanging out doing sketchy shit and fucking like then going on tour and roofing and like whatever

like and then we had a point I had a falling out with the dude I was doing roofing with and we had a tour coming up and I was just like you know what man I'm done with this shit like I'm just going to like pedal the metal like me and Jamie had talked about it. We had all talked about it but it was like let's

just like let's just not come home. Like by hook or by crook. well, we ain't going to make money on this store, but if we don't come home, it don't matter. The budget will carry it, like, or whatever. Like, well, you know, and we just said, fuck it.

And we just started touring nonstop. And that's, like, how it kind of got, I got absorbed into it more. Like, I joined the band. I was good friends with those guys, too. Like, me and Boulder were the dudes. Yeah. So, like, it was like a thing where it was just,

like, they were just another hardcore band in Connecticut. We played with them. We were friends with, and Jamie put on most of the shows back then. So, like, So when I joined the band And then I actually did that tour And then all that shit happened

And we did a couple more tours And then I was tired of roofing And then all of us were kind of tired Of what we were doing at that point We just decided not to come home And that's when shit started We had a dancing tour Then we had a Sepuletura tour

And Sepuletura took us to Europe First time we went to Europe Seppletor took us And just fucking bullshit It just went like holy fuck Once we were ready to stop fucking around And take it seriously it was like the gods blessed us in terms of like the actual gods of metal like blessed us by hey we like your shit come do this with us and yeah sure no money like let's do it like fucking sleep around the floor sleeping on the side of the road awesome awesome awesome but fuck man we just got a slayer tour what the fuck yeah like

shit and so and it happened really quick like i joined the band it didn't happen really quick but like i joined the band and we were just doing shows regular local and then hitting a tour. It was, you know, regular shit. And satisfaction was out. And it was making noise. Yeah. But this is 97, 98, 99, you know? And then we were still just playing a bar and then getting a tour and playing a cool club.

And then this and that, man, like, just regular, like, Jamie would put enough shit together for us to make some money. And it was like we were hustling and playing like regular hardcore. Yeah. regular ass hardcore shit but like on a bigger level because jamie was the real hustler you know so like he was always getting a show as we're always work and so it was cool but like then all the sudden we're getting these tours and we're not making money but who gives his shit because slayer who needs the money i'm fucking on tour with fucking slayer yeah totally yeah like but we're going on tour with danzig that's crazy like you did you know we did some cool stuff we did

Danzig Sam Hain reunion. Like, you know, like we did like, it was just like we just got in and people liked us. And back then we were super wild. So like people kind of like that about us, too. There was a little bit of, we were a little wild style back. Yeah, there's a, there's a, yeah. There's a, yeah. How, what?

Go ahead. Did, like, when in this touring process did you guys go, okay, I guess we should start working on another record? Because it was a, that's a long, it's like a, yeah, it's like a, it's like a, it's like a, It's like a Michael Jackson thriller to bad type gap. It's a five-year gap. Yeah, which is crazy. Like for most bands, you're trying to do a two-year record cycle at most.

Yeah. We were, you know, I can't speak on the situation enough. Like, I wasn't contractually obligated to anything, but the band was. So we were just kind of like unhappy with the situation. and we weren't willing to give in. So, say no more. We'll just rock.

We'll rock this thing. Like, fine. And then when we made enough noise, we just worked our asses off and made enough noise to where we were important enough for someone else to come in and help us with our situation. Amazing. Wow. That really, really brings,

that's like mystery salt. This is an ancient mystery. Yeah. Holy shit. And then perseverance and rise of brutality. are like back to back. So that was... Yeah, and we were writing

and we were recording demos and stuff, you know, like here and there, you know, definitely. But we were torn and just making noise and we were just like, and I was just like, you know, like, I just had faith in Jamie because he had a kid to feed and I was kind of wild.

Like, I was like, this is what I need in my life, you know, like, whatever. Like, I kind of wanted to play guitar. I'd fucking want to play guitar. I don't want to be a roofer. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Drug dealer, like, that's ridiculous.

Like, whatever. It's not ridiculous, but at that point, like, I was just like, like it'll do. Like, it was just like, I didn't want to do it anymore. You know, so like, I was just like, oh, this is fucking awesome. I just get to play my guitar and then I come home and I can pay my rent too. Yeah. But cool.

I mean, that's the dream. Fucking. That's it. I'm good. Yeah. Done. I can do this. This is it.

Thank you. Whatever it goes after this, I'll take it. But this is cool. So this brings me to my favorite hate breed Sean Martin video, which you and I have talked about in the past John, but I got to bring it up anyway. And it ties into the guitar. It's, uh, hay breed playing proven on Ozfest, I think. Somewhere in Ohio, Colin, you should be able to find it. Yeah, I'll find it. Easy. And during the, the pit part, the camera zooms out and out and the pit never ends. Like the camera, the camera can't fit the whole pit into it. And

suddenly it's just like bubbling boiling water and I just and you guys were a four piece at the time. Yeah. Yeah, we worked for a few years. And playing, I mean, obviously you recorded it. You're super familiar with the riff, but like that's a riff. And one little fuck up on a triplet there, you know, like. Oh, yeah. With a crowd like that, like I can't, I can't express how cool that video is to me because it's pure just like.

Awesome. Like, it's so good. It's so good. Yeah. Dude, I got to tell you, man, I had a lot of, uh,

I had a lot of moments in my, I'm super grateful for everything, man. Like, that's fucking so surreal. Like, I always say like, like,

like I got a lot of great friends that are like my day to day friends that I've met through music to the hardcore scene. And I just like really, I'm blown away, dude. I'm just some dude from Waterbury. I don't know what the fuck happened. Like,

it's sick. It's sick as fuck. Like, I look at that stuff. And I don't, I don't even believe that to me. Like, I don't even fucking believe it. Like, it's so cool.

But at the same time, I'm kind of like a weirdo where I kind of wasn't impressed with it at all the whole fucking time. That's how it is, though, dude. Like, I wasn't, like, it's not about being, I was just, I was in such,

I was in such disbelief that I didn't take it seriously while it was happening. Like, I just got to go do this shit. There's how many thousands of people? Yeah. All right. Take it a, dig it again.

Yeah. Go, get it again. Holy fuck. This is crazy. like you know what I mean but like you know or you're just dead zone like and there was a lot of times too like no bullshit like not to get dark or anything but I was drunk a lot too man like I was like we were going so hard that I was just kind of like in a mode of like I was at war all the time like I was living my whole life to play that riff yeah that that moment of that night was the whole reason

I existed so like I was like going out there in a feverish anxiety riddled anguish anguish anguish like just losing my shit and then I finally get to play the riffs and I feel settled down. Other than that, I could not understand what I was doing there. It was like weird shit. Which, uh, which like a total 180 would be like us in Europe a few years later. I think, I think we should talk about that European tour that we did that made us, that made you and I at least broken, you know what that took in college?

No, that tour made me realize one thing. I'll always be in twitching tongues, but we may never go to Europe again. That being said, whatever, let me know. I don't know. That was almost four years ago, and I haven't toured since. So it was like,

it was four weeks in Europe, four weeks in the U.S. back to back. Was that the vein tour? Yeah. That was the vein tour. So this is day one, okay, Bohan. Yes, sir. Day one. The booking of this tour was done around twitching tongues finally being able to be horizontal, you know?

Yeah, right. Oh, yeah, right. We have this little minibus thing that like... Do they call it like a missile or something? No, it was a sprinter, but it was basically a modified sprinter, like a jumbo sprinter that was modified so it could be a small tour bus, but not quite like the ones we have in America. Gotcha. It had seven months. So it was like everybody had one

Which was awesome It had a little Marshall fridge You know? Yeah Who doesn't love that? So cool Day one Bohan

Oh I remember now Oh even before that Vane We got Vain on the tour We asked MAD I don't know if I'm breaking any Confidentiality things here But we asked MAD

Hey Fuck all that shit Can Vain be on the tour with us Because otherwise it's just us by our and they're like, yeah, sure. Thinking that like, Vane is. So, and essentially there's that,

that creates some like nonverbal contract where that Vane is just doing the tour for zero dollars. By us, us asking if Vain can do the tour, they like didn't rework the budget at all. So day one, all their shit they've got a ban they've got a driver they're using gear like this costs thousands of dollars thousands yeah if the people listening like bands will understand how much this shit costs just flying there is

oh dude four or five grand oh i had it i had it added up real quick oh day one minibus is dead yeah it's gone it's like okay well the ac minibus shit the bed before we even got to the first show. It crawled into the first show and was dead. We got to the first show right before we had to go on. Literally. Oh, my God. It was, it was, it was, uh, it was day one was just like, all right, we're, we're in pain.

Yeah. And dude, the first show on a Euro tour is always so weird. Yeah. There's so much rust and jet lag and just like weirdness to knock off that like showing up and having to immediately go on is. It was 15 minutes for a way. Oh, my God. Yeah, it was brutal.

And then it's like, you know, and it comes with that, as you know, Bo, being a guitar player. As you do, Colin, being a guitar player. Wow. Like, then you got to figure out, okay, fuck, we're going on in 15 minutes. We're running and gunning.

What do I got for equipment? Oh, luckily we had marshals. It was all good. Me and Taylor got marshals. We're fucking fine, always forever. Any model, it doesn't matter. but like, well, thank God for that. But I was just like,

but the fervor of insanity of like jet lag, not sleeping and fucking. The bus. It's going upside down. We had a crazy adventure in the town that we stayed in the first night with the weird place that we stayed where the guys didn't show up to let us in for hours. Like all this crazy stuff culminated to us not sleeping for like two days.

Uh, dude. And having to play. Oh, you're on in 15 minutes. And it's like midnight. Sean, Sean, the hostel where the guy running it had no shirt on.

He showed up in a BMW with no shirt on. And kept walking into our room, into our, like, the room where we were paying to sleep and turning the air conditioner off. Oh my God. It was like Germany?

Yes, it was like, this is it. We're going, like, we're going to prison for life in Germany today. Yeah. So to the point,

He walked outside for a second, and we just went to the lobby and took the remote and kept it. Yeah, we just kept it in the room. Smart. Like, fuck this. Oh, my God. They're so weird about AC over there, man. And then the windows, they hate it. And the windows don't have screens.

They just open. They open. They want the bugs in. Yeah. They want the bugs in. The window cracks like this. Oh, God. Oh, you go.

You have entered now. You're like, do I? I got something. Thank you. I appreciate that. So we're at the first show. It's like a mini fest that we're headlining. The minibus is dead.

So the sprinter, Bo. The same sprinter. Comes and picks us up. The one from Hungary with the Norbert DVD in it comes and picks us up. And we get to the second show and that's when we're like, okay, is there going to be another minibus to come? And they're like, no, this is, it doesn't exist. And then they're like, oh, also. vein's not getting paid at all

so how did you want to handle that and we were like what? Like we're in a German village on a mountain town. Literally a village. A village. Like a a village. Not a town not a city, not a town a village. Or as

they say a village. A village. Taylor's screaming on the phone and essentially what we worked out against all desires and hopes and dreams. Like This tour existed so that we, it was like, okay, I'll do it. For comfort.

If I can lay down. Totally. Yeah. Totally. And that's how it was sold to me. Right. Of course. Of course.

It won't be that bad. It's not a bus, but. Yeah. But also, you know, whatever. I'm in it to win it with these dudes. Because we did the persistence tour a year earlier on a bus. It was great. Yeah.

Yeah, of course. I'd never done that before. Changed my life. Touring on a bus is a completely different animal. Speaking of bus and kale. Yeah. At one point, this is like, this is, this will describe kale in a nutshell. Kail, I love you, but just listen to this.

There's a top floor where all the bunks are, right? Cale and I's bunks are right across from each other. There's no window outside of the bunks. So we have the same view of the outside. I don't know where we're stopped, but Kail rips his, rips his blondes. Colin. Colin. I'm like, what's up,

and he's like, are we at a gas station? I'm like, kale. I don't know. I can see. You know, two things that I think of these two things and I laugh sometimes just out of nowhere. I hear, I think of these two phrases.

Are we at a gas station? And I laugh my ass off. The other one, that's my favorite. Yeah. Are we at the venue? This is in our van. When you're in a van that has windows everywhere. We're in America, in the van.

Are we at the van? Motherfucker, I don't know. You tell me. He's like this. His windows right here. And he'll still just be like, call. Are we at the venue? Amazing.

Yeah, but that's kale. And he's amazing. and that's why we love it. I got one. On our tour, we'll get back to Europe, but on our, on the,

the co-release tour that we were talking about, we were playing in Montreal at like up three flights of stairs. I remember that one. Kale's playing. You guys finished the song. He's like,

wait a minute. Wait, like, hold on. I can't. Like, I can't. You know,

and there's like feedback. You guys are like, what's going on? And he's like, give me a minute. And we're like, Oh shit, does he need water? You know, whatever.

He takes a hoodie. He's got no shirt on. He takes a hoodie. He ties it around his waist. One, two, three, four. And then we're going. His back was hurting. He needed a little support, man.

Give him a break. Was this a, was this a... What a nut. Foofs? Is that what it was? Yeah, that was the place that was real... Yeah, it was three floors up, man. Holy shit.

Then we went and got the crazy hot dogs. Yeah, we got the hot dogs. John, that was where you hit your head entering the stage to play. Oh, yeah. Just the whole set, just like this. Just mad at the world. It was Thanksgiving. Oh, my God.

I remember that. Yo, so it was Thanksgiving. So here's a part. So it's Thanksgiving. I bash my head. And then I'm getting pictures of my wife. From my wife at my best friend and his family's Thanksgiving party having the times of their lives, literally sending me pictures of them eating Thanksgiving, like my wife and my dad, my best friend's dad picture together.

And we're in French Canada. And I get a homesick for a minute. I'm trying to be tough about it because we're all the same dressing room and shit. And then you hit your head. And I smash my fucking head. And that was like this is, I think that was the first time I heard a patented Sean Mara. Martin. Fuck!

Which would become a signature. There's two, two moments. Both in Germany, I think. There was at that mall that was like, this was like third to last day of tour in Germany. Random,

we have like an hour at a mall. And I, we're going our separate ways because we just need some space. Yeah, and I hear from across the mall, like reverberbing through the whole mall. I was like, oh, we're Sean up to. And then a signature, Sean, I think it was like last week of tour, he looks me in the eyes and says,

I am booking a flight home. And I was like, I love you, buddy. I'm sorry. I was like, you do what you got to do. I understand. I'm sorry for everything. I didn't. He didn't book flight on.

The man is a true. trooper. We had a broken AC on a summer tour one time and he just existed until we bought we just Taylor and I just bought a whole new van because that one broke which is we're still

still paying for it. I think we got like two years left on it. Oh my God. Interesting time. Haven't haven't toured since. Yeah. Haven't. So it was the Euro tour and then the U.S. tour and that was it.

It was wild. It was like, but I won't, I'll look at it like, I'll still accept the challenge. Like, I'm not, the universe was trying to break us down like that for some reason. But we want. Yeah. Wait, this was, that was before the, the hate pre-tours? No, this was the last one. Summer 2018 was like when we were like, oh, okay, it was.

Collectively, I mean, we have Alec too, who is just like. An adult. If an adult, but also like, he's, we're dead outside in terms of our reaction to things. Like, Sean and I will be like, this fucking sucks. Fuck. Alec is just sitting there like this. And you just know he's like, in his mind, he's in Afghanistan again. I knew.

I knew you were going to say. He's, you know, him and his squad is looking out for IEDs and he's just sitting like, God. Were there any good European shows on that tour? Any highlights? Because we shit on Europe a lot. There's going to be a theme on this show. We played a show with Hey,

breed that was pretty sad. That was great. And Suffocation and we almost beat up Suffocation's sound guy. Yeah, there was a guy in Suffolkation's crew that I guess was wild in the fuck out. But the band was lovely. And I'm I'm like a like a lifelong suffocation guy But some somebody on the tour was was being someone was mad at us for some reason

And it wasn't anybody in my former band that was headlining so I couldn't understand it Right yeah I was just like yo wow that's funny I hey I know I'm the opener but fun fact I'm still part of the company yeah like what the fuck yeah What is going on like I walked in the dressing room there was like like shit had just cooled down, which I'm psyched about because. Yeah, it didn't escalate, but it was, you know. There's, uh, yeah, someone was just mad. I think someone had a few too many drinks and they were a little bit, how,

just mad about what else was some dumb shit that didn't matter. I felt, yeah, go ahead. I felt bad because I was like, I love suffocation. I'm like, I don't want. Yeah. We, we had a similar thing with decapitated. They had, uh, you know, they're Polish. They don't really know what's going.

I was on an at, at the gate store. And they had this fucking tour manager who was just like the whole time just like complaining about shit. He was like, I could be in Europe right now with Tesseract. Oh my God. And we were just like, all right, dude, you know. And like decapitation, this is before all the like controversies that they were later exonerated for. But, you know, it was before all that. And it was like I felt bad for them because they're just trying to tour.

Like literally trying to do their thing. And dude, one night, this is a classic Chris Mills. We had, the only thing on Harmsways Rider ever is going to be water, diet coax, and five sugar-free Red Bulls. That's all we ever really want, right? And we're playing, it's like a real tour because it's at the gates and blah, blah, blah. And the tour manager had just gotten off a two-year tour with Weird Al, Colin. Two years? Two years with Weird Al.

I would do that in a heartbeat. I mean, she said, I know that Sean would too. She was awesome. I forget her name, Rachel or something. But anyway, we had our, we're somewhere in, we're in Austin. We had our Red Bulls. Chris cracks one open. And this guy, the tour manager for decapitated is like, you know, we're supposed to

fucking share those, man. And Chris, knowing, Chris is the guy who put in the rider and knowing, blah, blah, he sits it and goes, ah. And the guy, the guy who's like walks out, mumbles in straight up is like, fucking choke on it, man, and like walks out complaining. Shut up, really? And we mentioned it to the weird owl chick. And she was like, and someone was joking and like, I'm going to stab that guy.

And she pulls out and she was like, here you go pulled out a knife. She was down. Weird Al is down. Totally down. No problem. Fuck yeah. Rachel Michelle. She was good.

I love Weird Al. So, dude. So she's playing Weird Al's band all day. Dude. I would, like. other than my wife would be down too if I was like honey weird owl needs me she'd be like let's pack let's get you out of here

weird hell opening for the spice girls oh my yeah my wife would insist that I took that gig to such an extent yeah um she'd be like that is great you need to go do that A get out of here B that's sick but I do find a lot of times it's like the hired guns that aren't really a part of the band

end unit are the problematic ones. You know what I mean? But then you have like Kiss who tours with Heybreed who is just like, he was lovely. Really? Oh, yeah, he's great. By the end, by the end, he's like asking your question. He's like, do you have a cat? What is his name?

Yeah, you get. Yeah, getting to know you. But sometimes, man, they could be like, I've definitely had a lot of experiences with that. They try to have a hierarchy or whatever of tour. That's so whack. There's no reason not to be nice. We're all suffering. Yeah.

Like, you know, there's a way to communicate and, you know, I get that you have a stressful job or whatever. And that's from having been, like, you know, when Heapy was a headliner,

like when I was in Hayprey, you were headlining and stuff. You know, the tour manager's job, the objective is to, yes, that get the headliner as many perks and this and that as possible and this and that,

but like never at the expense of someone else or whatever. You know what I mean? like we played with like we did tours when we were like coming up and stuff that we witnessed stuff we'd be like well that's fucked up like yeah yeah cutting local acts yeah yeah you know like you know just dudes swinging their dicks around or whatever you know what I mean like for lack of a better way to put it pretty much that's what it is like dude just being mad you know whatever they're having a bad day and getting yelled at about something so the trickle down theory is like you know the crew at the club and then the fucking opener

and then the fucking band that's on tour with them are all going to get a piece of it because their wife's chewing them out at home or some shit. We learned so fucked up. I just be like, damn. We learned really quick on our, we, we opened up for the Acacia Strait on a tour. And Mr. Bruce LaPage was tour managing. And we learned real, real quick just to like be on time. That's the only thing that really matters. Just be on time.

Well, that's the thing that matters. Like, just have your shit together. Have your camp together. Yeah. Be there. It's all business. As long as your business is straight. Fuck around.

Do whatever you want. Yeah. You know, be there on time. Load in when you're supposed to load in. Sound check if you get one. Don't complain if you don't. Get off the stage when you have. Be happy to be here and like get the fuck off.

Get the fuck off. Like it's simple. Yeah. But, you know, it really was like, and trust me, we were horrible fuckups. Like, we were hilarious fuckups. But we learned how not to be and then, you know, but then if we were ever in a situation where someone was opening for us and it was, you know, obviously, how are you going to get mad to somebody when you were like the king of the fucking mess at one point, you know?

Yeah. band whatever younger band is going through or what you know something breaks down or shit's real that stuff's real but it is funny man like the the tour managers that like whatever we you know i'll tell you a funny story man like real quick i was sandy names and i won't even whatever yeah a big band that i had toured with when i was in hayfried had a tour manager at one point that definitely was a complete jerk but you know we didn't care we were always just us whatever it's all good it was definitely a jerk to a kind of like a little more so than normal, whatever, but all good. Life goes on.

Years later, I'm working for Cuddy, and I'm playing some, like, big college show in Connecticut, actually, and some big college thing, some whatever, and backline, there's backline and everything, and the backline company shows up, and then the person that's, the head of the backline is the person that was the tour manager that was a total jerk to me. Wow. Like, did you remember? Back in the day. Yeah.

Oh, you don't forget. Yeah. Yeah, but we recognize, there was a recognition. Yeah, yeah. And then I was just like, ha, ha, ha, ha. Yeah. Oh, excuse me, I want my martial cabinets next to each other on this show. Can you take them down?

That's how you win. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, cool, like, cool. And there was no, not even any other, not other than like, yeah, no problem. Yeah, cool, thanks. Yes, sir. Like, call me, sir.

Like, you know, like, who the fuck am I anyway? Like, that's so goddamn hilarious. That was like a true like like a fucking nod from like the universe feeling like hey, yeah, remember that shit like 10 years ago? Here you go kid. Yeah, you're above it. It's amazing. Yeah. That's so good.

We're hitting the one hour mark here. Jeez. It just flies by man. It's where we have fun. We're just friends chatting and then and then before you know, the whole day's gone by. I have one more kaleism that I just need to bring up. and Sean, I think you and I recently talked about this one is day one in Japan. A normal conversation is happening in the van amongst like everybody, Kail's in his own world looking out the window.

Just like, oh look, it's Japan. We're all just like, yeah, you know, like, judgment never did. There seven inches are sick. and then Kale, mid-conversation, goes, what is Ratatouille? It was like, it's a Pixar movie. He goes, no, no, no, the food. Like, what is it?

Oh, my God. It's so real. It's so good. That's great. It's so fucking real. He always, he says the last thing you ever expect him to say. And it's amazing. What is Fred?

What is right? Fuck, man. Like, you can't get mad at them. No matter how mad you get at him. Right. No matter what, fuck you. You shouldn't get mad at him. He's awesome.

Have you seen the Lord of the Rings meme where it's Bilbo with the ring in his pocket? And Gandalf's like, I believe you still have my lighter. And Bilbo, like, reached his right and he's like, I believe, it appears I do. That is your dynamic entirely. We're Kail will be like, Sean, can I have my lighter back? And it'll be the lighter he borrowed from you last time. Yes. 100%.

Oh, I love it. I got to have him. We got to have him on the show. Yeah. That's a good idea. Yeah, man. He's got stories. He is the story.

It's amazing. Yeah, he is the story. Is there any, is there a final tale? or anecdote or thing you would like to leave with the world, Sean? Oh, man, I don't know. Do you have a favorite, like a favorite show that comes to mind with twitching tongs or Hey, breed or wear your wounds or like anything, you know, that you played for? Just anything that where you're like, oh man, this was a good, that was a good day.

Yeah, I got, yeah, everything like that definitely like, uh, it's a broad question. I know. No, yeah, but like getting to do, you know, like getting to play like Oz Fests and shit in Connecticut. Yeah. Pretty consistently for like a few years, like five or six years, like type shit. It was kind of like a cool. That's pretty sick, man.

Like, like, like Connecticut's really small. So like, and I'm from a certain part of it. So like it was cool like to be like, fuck man. Like we're just fucking smashing it right now. Like and there's like, you know, those moments were really cool. Like not us show in particular. But the Oz Fest at home were cool because it just was like an accomplishment. You're getting the nod from like the, the heavy thing.

Yeah, you know, like getting my brother and a bunch of dudes that he's in the union with backstage at an Ozzie show, basically. That's all it really is. Oh, my brother's playing with Ozzy. Like, don't matter what the fuck's going. Well, you know, so like that's awesome. That kind of stuff was awesome. And then ironically enough, grand opening, grand closing, getting to fucking open the show

with twitching tongues and close his show with Heybreed, pretty fucking sick. That's awesome. That is very cool. Yeah, I agree. Like, really cool place to be in,

like, not weird, awesome. Like, I'm like, holy fuck, yeah, man, this is fucking sick. I didn't plan that. Nothing's planned, but, like, having the opportunity to, like, play with the band that I'm in,

opening for my old band, and then playing the last three or four songs with my old band. It's just a weird, cool thing that I never would have thought would have happened in a million years that I'm super grateful for it too.

Dude, same. Like, grateful is the term that comes to mind. When I just see that, I'm like, man, I'm watching the band that, like, made me fall in love with music, kind of. And, like, I'm friends with that guy.

That's a perfect way to wrap this up, I think. That is full, cosmic circle. That's beautiful. Love you, Sean. Thank you. I love me, too. You're wonderful. Gorgeous.

Gorgeous time. Thank you guys for having me out here. I love you too, both. You're wonderful. I'm so happy to hear from you, man. Yeah, man. Glad you're doing well. I miss you guys a lot, man.

Likewise, yeah, I hope we all get to hang out in real life again soon. Plug your, uh, your apiary. Oh, yeah. So check it out. We got the Martin Hives, uh, my bee company, my bee company. I don't make the bees. We got a honey company.

Uh, the Martin Hives. Uh, you can just go Martin Hives.com. take you to the link that'll take you to our store via death wish and then i have a new thing i have a i have my own like little label and everything now uh via death wish and i have like a store on there called residual effects and like i'm just putting out all my like cool weirdo rap beat stuff and then eventually a bunch a bunch of heavy stuff is coming out too but once my ocds once i get over my ocds and can actually record guitars to where i'm satisfied with them by the time i'm 75 the heavy stuff will come out awesome whatever well

But yeah, so residual effects in the Martin Hives. Check that stuff out and that's where I'm at. We'll make sure that's linked to in the event. Yeah, I got you covered, brother. Awesome. That was episode three of Hardlore Stories from Tor. Thank you guys so much for joining us. Peace out.

Hey, everybody, do you want to be part of the next episode of Hardlore? If so, we've got an email ready for submissions. Bo, take it away. It is Not Fest Hardlore, all one word, at gmail.com. Send us stories through text, video, be descriptive, be discreet, you know, because we don't want to get in trouble. Don't say names. If, yeah, just be, just be careful, but we want to, we want to know everyone's stories regardless. Yeah, if you pissed your pants, I want to hear about it.

So send us those stories. Bye.