HardLore - The Best 1980s Hardcore Band (Tournament Bracket)

Episode Date: April 17, 2025

HardLore (and some special guests) crown the best 1980s hardcore band of all time in our most diabolical bracket tournament episode yet. The best of the best from some of the founding fathers and trailblazers of what we know as hardcore today... This was brutal, sorry. If you are a touring musicians or crew, check out the SIGHT FOR SOUND program by Neven Eyewear to get FREE prescription glasses and sunglasses. No strings, no catch. Just free glasses. https://neveneyewear.com/pages/sight-for-sound Join the HARDLORE PATREON to watch every single weekly episode early and ad-free, alongside exclusive monthly episodes: https://patreon.com/hardlorepod Join the HARDLORE DISCORD: https://discord.gg/jA9rppggef Cool links: HardLore Official Website/HardLore Records store: https://hardlorepod.com Get 15% off MADD VINTAGE with code HARDLORE15! https://maddvintage.com/ Get 20% OFF @manscaped + Free Shipping with promo code HARDLORE at MANSCAPED.com! #ad #manscapedpod FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/hardlorepod/ TWITTER | https://twitter.com/hardlorepod SPOTIFY | https://spoti.fi/3J1GIrp APPLE | https://apple.co/3IKBss2 FOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/colinyovng/ TWITTER | https://www.twitter.com/ColinYovng FOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/bosxe/ TWITTER | https://www.twitter.com/bosxe 00:00:00 - Hello Welcome 00:05:59 - Suicidal Tendencies vs Agnostic Front 00:07:33 - Outburst vs SSD 00:10:06 - Youth of Today vs Antidote 00:11:39 - Slapshot vs Negative Approach 00:12:53 - Black Flag vs Warzone 00:15:54 - Sick of It All vs Uniform Choice 00:17:31 - Judge Vs Leeway 00:19:49 - First Guest Judge.... 00:21:38 - Gorilla Biscuits vs Discharge 00:22:31 - Poison Idea vs 7 Seconds 00:24:13 - The Next Guest Judge... 00:26:20 - Minor Threat vs Breakdown 00:28:37 - Bad Brains vs Descendents 00:29:16 - Cro-Mags vs Side by Side 00:30:42 - Bold vs Underdog 00:32:38 - Straight Ahead vs Turning Point 00:33:54 - The Next Guest Judge 00:36:08 - DYS vs Dag Nasty 00:37:52 - Negative Effects vs Killing Time 00:39:23 - Round 1 Review 00:40:22 - Agnostic Front vs SSD 00:41:09 - Youth Of Today vs Negative Approach 00:42:07 - The Next Guest Judge 00:44:20 - Warzone vs Sick of It All 00:45:48 - The Next Guest Judge 00:48:42 - Leeway vs Discharge 00:50:14 - Minor Threat vs 7Seconds 00:51:21 - Bad Brains vs Cro-Mags 00:51:59 - The Next Guest Judge 00:57:24 - Underdog vs Straight Ahead 00:58:04 - DYS vs Killing Time 00:58:38 - Second Round Review 00:59:00 - Pardon This Interruption.... 01:01:18 - Quarter Finals 01:15:55 - Semi Finals 01:18:03 - The Next Guest Judge 01:21:13 - The Finals   HardLore: A Knotfest Series, Fueled by Monster Energy Edited by Steven Grise • Title sequence by Nicholas Marzluf Join the HARDLORE PATREON to watch every single weekly episode early and ad-free, alongside exclusive monthly episodes. Join the HARDLORE DISCORD for community discussions and to participate in our future Q&A episodes. FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER, SPOTIFY, APPLE FOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAM FOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER   For sponsorship opportunities, email us! [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Straight ahead versus turning point. We got a nasty one coming, folks. I think we got to call on an expert here. You got a call about this. We've got Mark Porter from Floor Punch here. Perfect. Porter, we've got to ask you something very important. This is to crown the best 1980s hardcore band of all time, straight ahead.

Yeah. Versus turning point. Hello, welcome. It's Hardlord time. How are you, Bo? I'm doing very well today, Colin. How are you? I'm scared of this one.

Yeah, this one. sucks. You know, we haven't even posted the thing yet at time of recording, but I can imagine the discourse is perilous and never-ending. And honestly, it has been internally as well. We've been staring at this bracket for a few days now, made by our graphic designer, Kerry, who is a sadist. But, you know, I think she, I think there's a couple tough picks in here, but overall,

she did a great job. Of course. but today Hardlore is going to crown the best 1980s hardcore punk band of all time and we need to specify that this is

you know earlier in the 80s you go you're going to get a little more on the punk side and then you know there's a spectrum here but we're talking about everything within this decade that we've got there's a couple things we couldn't leave out but we wanted to mostly

keep it capital HC hardcore you know and before we really get going on that after we submitted the bracket, I just realized that there were some bands missing. So I thought I'd go through. For all you guys out there, we know what we're talking about.

I promise. I just wanted to list some of the honorable mentions. We couldn't fit on this bracket unless we wanted to do like... We could only put 32 bands on there. What do you want from us, right? So obviously a few things are going to get left out. Here are the honorable mentions.

DeCroits and Zero Boys, Effigies, Dix, dead boys, MDC, Adolescence, Anadone, Naked Reagan, Chain of Strength, Dead Kennedys, D-O-A, S-O-O-A, FUs, Jerry's kids, fear, gangering, flipper, germs, life's blood, government issue, icemen, iron cross, JFA, Kroot, Meatman, Minuteman, Murphys Law, Neckros, nerve agent, Sub-Zero Project X, Reagan Youth, Red Cross, Youth Defense League, Scream, S&FU, Subhumans from Canada, TSOL, teen idols, token entry, undead, urban waste, rest in pieces, verbal abuse, bad religion, social distortion, and these circle jerks were left off

of this list. Just a few. A handful. the bare essentials made it circle jerks not on it just the biggest punk bands so like we know but you guys we know but we

it's our fucking show god damn it and this is you know like life's blood yeah they probably should go on here but what can you do they got fucking what six songs or some shit that's also that is the thing is like some of these bands have one record you know yeah and they're

great records they're great records but You know. But I, you know, and we both did this bracket independently before this. Yes, we did. So I'm excited to see what we come up with together as a result. Right. By trying to convince one another. Yeah.

I feel like my answers are nine out of ten your answers, but there's, we're going to differ on one. There's a few big ones. There's a few that are like, like, I guess we could just start now. Before we start, there's something important we want to tell you guys about. Absolutely. We are beyond excited to be working with and sponsored by officially the Site for Sound program brought to you by Nevin Iware. This is probably the coolest partnership we've gotten to do yet because it directly helps every single working person in the music industry if they click the link below. Site for Sound is a program created and run by people from punk. metal, rock, hardcore over at Nevin Iwear.

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We're starting off with a main event. Yeah. Pissing me off event. This one is a damn near impossible call. And honestly, suicidal is one of the greatest California hardcore bands of all time. You could even, you could call them one of the greatest hardcore bands of all time.

You know, like, so influential, groundbreaking, creative, hard. And like the cultural, you know, like there's the whole other aspect to it, which makes you wonder they're paired up against the Gnostic Front. Are they the West Coast counterpart? It could definitely be argued. You know what I mean? There's some similarities. What's interesting is, like, suicidal was doing like 3,000 people in the plating,

and AF was doing CVs, you know? Totally. It's crazy. Different worlds. Yeah. Is it more of a metal thing, more of a crossover thing? Or is it the cultural? I mean, those, the first couple records.

Yeah. That's hardcore. That's H.C. I'm calling it core. Capital HC. But you're up against a giant here. Yeah. You're up against the godfathers.

I got, I have to, and like, any in other spaces, suicidal could make it to the finals. Right. We run into this with all of our brackets. Every single time, there's one lamb that gets led to, to, to, to, unnecessary slaughter and today it is suicidal because AF has to win. Has to win. F. fully agree. There's no way around that.

There's no way around it. Up next. We've got out. Live on camera. Up next we have Outburst versus SSD. Now listen. Dude, these are two similar stories here.

I know. I know. The young ins who took the torch and ran to the top of the mountain and kept the world burning, you know? With this one, I had to go for volume. You got to go SSD. I got to go SSD. I agree. Okay, cool.

As we said last week, who knows what the straight edge movement would be at all without SST. And two, you know, they're essentially compilations. Kids will have their say is a record and then get it away as kind of a comp. Get it away is incredible. And then they did, you know, they did like a rock record. They did power. Yeah. Yeah.

It may not be your thing, but like we can respect it. Totally. And miles to go stands on its own. It's the most expensive seven inch, actually. Second most expensive expensive seven inch I've ever bought. Good. Yeah. But you're talking about a bigger discography, an arguably bigger impact in a place.

And they created it there than. 100%. So I think SSD clears outburst with all due respect outbursts. And listen, you heard those honorable mentions lists, you know? Yeah, you've already beaten those. Outbursts beat Circle Jerks. So this is no, there's no discredit, crediting to anybody who's out in the first round, you made it to the first round. That's a great way to put it.

We love you. That's why you're here. we love most of those honorable mentions as well. So that's this whole thing is we're, you want to hear about shit you already know or do you want to get, if you're a young kid, you want to get put on the outburst, you know?

Your uncle, unk already taught you about circle jerks. We're here to talk about outbursts. But SSD has to win here. I agree. And also it's like, hey, the circle jerks are grouped up against underdog. Guess what?

Underdog's winning all day. You know what I mean? So it's like, we're, we're, we got to keep it real. a little bit. This is just us. We cherry picked Hardler's favorite bands for the most part. That's true. So what can you expect?

Maybe we should do a bigger one sometime or something. I don't know. Like an 128 or? Yeah. A giant book. Carrie. Next up, we've got, I mean, we're free of controversy so far, which is good. But right now we've got Youtha Today versus Antidote.

If Vitalo here is about my SSD versus opera or our take, I feel as though I will get text message. I imagine he will. He's already mad that token entry is an honorable mention. So there's nothing we could do. Listen, Anadote, Thou shalt not kill. Groundbreaking. Landmark. Early to the game. Sonically similar

bands, too. Antidote is kind of like evil youth of today. I agree. And like, there's a few bands on here that figured out where the way they sound seems so intentional, so early.

Yeah. Like, the Anato was dialing in those tones. Yeah, yeah. Dalshanak Hill is an incredible record. I agree. But they're up against a giant.

You're up against arguably my favorite hardcore band. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's got to be youth of today. And again, we're talking about

cultural impact, a subcultural movement coining a phrase. Yeah. Like, again, we're talking about youth crew. Like, they coined that.

You know, that matter. That matters. We're getting nipicky because these are all of our favorite bands. Also, the Youth of Today family tree is all over this. Yes. And it kind of all, the youth of today are the roots of the tree. Yes.

So it's Youth Today here. Okay, great. We've got a kaiju fight up next. We've got Boston's finest. Versus. Versus. The band. God.

Slapshot versus negative approach All right listen Listen this is I feel I really feel for Anybody that had to go against negative approach was going to have a bad time Yes and and I agree I am one of the biggest slap shot fans that I personally know It's like me and Alec favor that's it I love slap shot but

I'll tell you who I bet Alec likes more You know what I mean Negative approach negative approach Negative approach. They're the band. Changed the world. It's who they all wanted to be. Who knows what this bracket would sound like if negative approach never existed?

You got to give it to Detroit's finest tier. Without, like, it's a hands down. There's no argument there for me. Agreed. All right. This is, this is our smoothest bracket so far. Just because this is the,

the next ones are where we pit our actual favorites against favorites. Bottom right is going to, we're going to get into this. some trouble. Okay. But right now, Black Flag versus Warzone. Now, this is an interesting one, isn't it?

It is. They're very different bands. Very different. You know, Black Flag, what I can say, I've never been a huge Black Flag guy. I like Pettibones

work for Black Flag more than I really like their music, you know? Interesting. But what they did as far as, like, touring and playing fucking everywhere, pretty amazing. I mean, but, but,

But regardless of your, like, the work is the work, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those records are monumental. All of them. Change the misfits, as we know. Earth AD wouldn't exist without Black. And like, I like Rollins. I think Des is kind of the guy.

I like Keith even more. And then the other guy is sick too. You know what I mean? Like, I don't, there's the one guy who's saying on, like, one record. You know, so it's like there's eras. the impact can't be overstated. Sure. Damage is absolutely goaded.

And then you know, a war zone. Listen. I'm with you. On the war zone seven inch, you have Todd Youth in a backwards hat, and I find out they're like a skin-ed, straight-edge band when I'm 16.

Black Flagg's got a song about six-packs. Sure. And TV parties. You know what I mean? Well, the TV party, I'll be there. That sounds really cool. Yeah, you're right. but this is just

I'm going what am I what am I throwing on right now yeah how are we yeah you know what we should have done in the beginning is like not what we prefer how are we determining

you know there's no there's no criteria there it's just it's gut gut feeling if it's gut then it's war zone all day 100%

and it's this is this is us we understand like legacy it has it's going to black flag all day yeah to the final four

for sure Yeah, easily. Yeah. And we don't question that. That's beautiful. I would never deny that. What am I putting on right now? Yeah.

Lower East Side. Yeah. Don't forget the trouble all day. You know what I just realized? In neither honorable mentions or the bracket are the misfits. That's the best punk band. They don't even belong in this. They're just the stratosphere.

It doesn't matter. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. So war zone. For us, it's war zone, I can see that being where, you know, the public's choices veer off, but we are who we are. And listen, we are talking hardcore. Hardcore. You know?

And Black Flag is one of the most influential punk banks of all time. And most, they are a hardcore man, you know? Yes, yes, yes. In terms of impact, legacy music, but it only got harder from there. and intro bust or TV party, come on. Sick of All versus Orange County's finest uniform choice. So I love uniform choice. I love straight and alert.

I like screaming at the sun. I like Unity. I like Pat DeBarr's catalog. You know what I mean? Oh, I mean, what a record, you know? I'm not a huge, sick of it all guy. I'm a huge Sick of All-Gar

So this is kind of where I don't really have a dog in the fight I can't tell you the last time I listened to Straight Alert You know what I mean? Or the Unity's side. I mean, I put it on today and yesterday just to

Just to get my head in the game here. Yeah, yeah. Unbelievable sounding record. It does sound good. Times change, people change, sing along One of the goats, you know? Sick of it all is sick of it all here. I may not be in this chair

without the Step Down music video. I think, I think objectively, it has to be sick of it all. And which like ruins our Black Flag Warzone argument. But I'm saying, you're saying that. I'm saying subjectively all day. Bloods, sweat, no tears. Just look around.

Scratch the surface alone. I would take over the uniform choice to sky. Also, I think it holds up what we're saying because Sigval is a hardcore band. That is still fucking rocking. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? And they're on fat wreck. They did it, dude.

Yeah, I'm so, like, I'm, I'm all in, I can objectively say that that's the correct answer. Okay. I would agree. We got a burn burner up next. Dude, this is fucked. Why would she do this? She's a sadist. All right, guys, the next bracket is Judge versus leeway.

Are you going leeway right off the rip? I mean, I am. This is the first one I read where I was like, oh, we're going to disagree on this. I am. I am. And I know, but I hear you, you know? Yeah, I don't know if it's, because look, judge, seven inch, amazing LP, bad seven inch. Right. You know what I mean?

That's it. And they were like, okay, we're done. We can't do this. We're done. when we're talking about impact and we know what everyone from our New York Harkour Chronicles talked about AJ

and the importance of his guitar playing. Which, which, you know, Judge was the same thing to a lot of people as we found. Straight edge. That's a great factor. That's a whole other thing for sure. But leeway,

enforcer demo, born to expire, desperate measures, open-mount kiss, adult crash. I love three of those. I like to. two of them. Yeah. I would say no skips other than, uh, what is it? Catholic high schools.

I don't love that one, but that's fine, you know? Um, I, I, I don't think this is a no-brainer. Yeah. It's a brainer. But it was, it was a fast answer for me. This is tough, but it, to me, overall, it's leeway. I like born to expire. I like desperate measures. I love the judge, And I love bringing it down. Of course. Dude, bringing it down is, if you go a while

without putting it, bringing it down on. Dude. It hits like whatever crack. They weren't taking it. They may be smoking now that they're not straight-edge anymore. You know?

Yeah. I don't know. That's not for me to say. But I think it's leeway. You're going, Judge? Yeah. I mean, that's what's on my. for sure.

We can call on a judge. We got to call somebody on this one. For lack of a better word. Okay. We're going to call on a guest here to settle this debate. We have to try to pick the least biased person. So actually, maybe it has to be someone from New York. Although anyone from New York is going to choose, they're all going to choose leeway.

All of them. I agree. There it is. Is that better? That's better. Okay, great. All right. help us settle this debate, we have

none other than Mr. Todd Jones. Yeah. Todd, we've got a big question for you. Judge or leeway? All right, now, what's the content matter? What's the subject matter? What's the... The subject matter is we're crowning the best

1980s hardcore band of all time. Well... Tell them it's the first round to. Leeway and Judge. This is first round, dude. Leway Judge's first round is diabolical. Thank you, Todd. I said the same. It was tough. It was tough. It's tough, but like, favorite judge record is the New York crew seven-ish, right? Fed up, dude. Fed up is top 100, you know? Easy. Yeah, New York crew. Come on. Yeah. Thank you, Todd.

You're welcome. We may be calling you again. I may need a couple more audibles called. Yeah, call me back. All right. Thank you, Todd. See ya. All right. So that's that. I like that. Yeah. I like just an outside.

I'm going to go leeway. Okay. Okay. So now that's settled by the great Todd Jones, we move on to our next bracket. This is Gorilla Biscuits versus Discharge. Fucking hell. Okay. So again, Gorillibiscus have a 7 inch in an LP.

Discharge kind of started hardcore. Pioneers. That everybody ever is ripping off. off to this day. It's got to be discharged. The D beat, you know? I can't... The discharge beat. I love Gorley Biscuits. Truly. As I get older, I find

I appreciate them more than I did when I was younger. I completely agree. But I can't argue with discharge. Discharge. Discharge is discharge, you know? So you keep that fucking energy next round. Fucker. All right. I will.

Oh, actually, I may not. All right, we're moved. That's our left side, guys. We've got first winners, Agnostic Front, SSD. Youth of Today, negative approach. Warzone, sick of it all, leeway, and discharge. Wow. Heavy hitters, some heavy hitters left behind as well. Oh, shit.

This is crazy. All right, guys. This is going to be interesting. Bracket time, right side. Here we go. We've got Poison Idea, the Kings of the Northwest versus Reefs. Reno's finest, seven seconds. And, you know, seven seconds, highly influential band, groundbreaking, beautiful, melodic,

they did it all. But unfortunately, for them, they're up against a giant. I don't know, man. Sometimes David beats that Goliath, you know what I mean? He does. Not in this case, brother. Listen, but if we're talking about impact, like better youth put out youth today. shit. That's cool, yeah.

They, they, like, seven seconds, the crew and the blood and gutsy, and walk with us, rock with us, rock with us, I can't, I can never remember. I don't know. I feel like, we can, I mean, we can call on a judge, but I, I think

did you, did you put seven seconds in your bracket? Oh, yeah. Wow. Like, immediately. Well, then I mean, I think this calls for another judge. An intermediate. Who are you going to call? No one's going to pick seven seconds. I'm surely on my...

Dude, this poison idea, man. I know, but... I think, like, I'm taking... All due respect to seven seconds. They're on here, you know? I legitimately think, if I'm not mistaken, the first two albums, first two pieces of vinyl I ever bought.

One was the lowest of the low, 10 inch. And number two was seven seconds, the crew. So why don't we call Scott? Yeah. That seems appropriate. That's a good one. Yeah, yeah. I like that. Yeah. What do we got? All right. Mr. Scott Vogel is here to help us settle a debate. Scott, this is, we got a tough bracket here. What's the, what's the premise? The premise is we're crowning overall the greatest 1980s hardcore band of all time.

But this bracket we've been. got right now that we need your help, we're at a standstill. It's Poison Idea versus seven seconds. You're out of my realm, but I'm going seven seconds. I've imagined you may, but I do think we called the right guy here because you're able to be a super objective. Poison idea really doesn't mean much to me. And seven seconds is possibly If you don't consider DRI, then seven seconds is the first hardcore band I ever saw. Headlining. Beautiful.

Beautiful. Called the wrong guy, it turns out. That is true. Beautiful. All right. Thank you, Scott. I may call you again later. Good luck, dudes.

Thank you. Bye. Fuck! Hey. Jerry, I tried, man. All right. I'm trying. All right.

seven seconds in a shocking moves on to the night and a big upset to me but you know I'll do respect this size sucks this side is fucking brutal dude

minor threat versus breakdown oh how do you do this I want to hear you reason this out actually there's no the reason here is that like

minor threat to hardcore is like Van Halen to electric guitar. You know? Like legitimate Mount Rushmore. Just Mount Rushmore band. Like, but like actually, you know. Period. It's on stigma's top four. And that's huge, you know.

The Minotrette record. Yeah. Who knows what would happen without the Minotrette record? Breakdown. like one of my favorite bands, you know? Mm-hmm. What do I listen to more in my adult life? Of course.

Breakdown. Of course. Do I, who do I, minor threat, one of the greatest bands ever. All time, any genre, period. Yes. Got to go minor threat here. Okay. Thank God.

Because we were going to run out of people to call. Yeah. Because Breakdown Tompkins Square Park was in our last week, right? It was the greatest live video ever. You know? But Mider Threat is again more than just out of step in the seven inches, you know?

More than a band. More than a band, yeah. And like you said... Not that breakdown isn't, you know? Of course. Walking down the street with my Big Mac? Hey. Like you said.

that about youth today having roots, minor threat, teen idols giving way to minor threat, there's some serious roots there for the DC. Big time roots that a lot of these bands owe a lot to. Absolutely. Ourselves included. Absolutely. So minor threat goes on to round two. Thank God.

I'm sorry to Mike and Jeff and everybody else and break down. But they get it. You're here, you know? Their family. Bad brains versus descendants is the next round. To me, this is easy bad brains. Easy bad brains. All due respect.

Bad brains are, if they're not in this conversation, we've done something wrong, you know? They're the band that bands in the 80s we're trying to be. It's bad brains, discharged negative approach,

minor threat you could say are the most influential things on here, period. Yeah. So this is obvious next pick. And like, we're going to have to talk about this more later. But so bad brains win. Easy.

We'll save this discussion for the upcoming discourse. Chromeags versus side by side. Listen, I love side by side. I just discovered a wonderful video that I shared on my Instagram story the other night. Side by side rocks. One of the coolest. Chromeags are a monolith. Unfortunately, for side-by-side, the Chromex are the Chromex.

They are the band. They're the band that made me like, they made me go, oh, New York has good music. You know what I mean? When I was 10, I thought it was all Boston. So when I was young, it was like, oh, they're from New York. Cool. I wonder what other bands come from New York.

Interesting. You know? Side by side, I think, is like one of the most underrated all time. Yeah, especially in the youth through side of things. You don't, you know. Agreed. Yeah. I would say a perfect record.

Yeah. And many, a great deal of tracks. Chromags are the cromax The chromags Where age of coral comes out Local bands are covering We gotta know that year You know

What can you do Best wishes Alpha Omega I think come on dude I apologize This is a tough matchup For side by side Who could have easily gone

To round two or three But the chromags went Yes Here we go This is a blowout Right? Bold versus Underdog. This is just, oh. All due respect to Bold.

Yeah. Anybody would have lost to Underdog first round. First round? Are you kidding me? To me, like, if Underdog doesn't make it to first or second round, we failed. Yeah, I fully agree. I'm also, I've never been a huge bold guy, but I am kind of now. Oh, I have utmost respect for Bold. I've kind of turned into a bold guy within the last two years.

But when I was young, it was like, oh, that band sucks. Crippled youth was better. See, I, I, growing up hearing the people not liking bold thing made me spitefully be like, I fuck, I'm going to fuck with bold. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bold rules. But they're going up against a giant here. To me, I don't want to imagine a world with no underdog in it, you know?

I refuse. Zero skips to me in the underdog. zero. There's zero, like, every part feels intentional. You know what I mean? Like everything on those records feels intentional. And there are another part of the youth of today family tree and it's just a fascinating story to follow just to see these roots grow into this. And like, in terms of motherfuckers singing over hard music, singing, singing, singing, yeah. Where would I be today without underdog? Wow. I mean, Bold also has. has quite the connection to all the youth of today,

crippled youth shit. So it's all intermarried. But yeah, I think Underdog clears bold. Underdog clears. Underdog clears. Underdog may be the dark horse pit. Could, in some spots,

could make to the finals. Yes, there you go. Good way to put it. Because God would have been. Straight ahead versus turning point. We got a nasty one coming, folks. Listen, I fought for Turning Point to be on this list Because they started in 88

They started late compared to a lot of the bands And from demo To darkest And then into the stuff like the The kind of post-hardcore shit they put out There is not a single fucking skip Turning Point's important to me To me is actually cannot be like overstated

Like I love that band I don't know how to compare it to straight ahead. Straight ahead is groundbreaking God tier S-tier hardcore music. Straight-hedge. But not. Only him. Only Craig. I get to, no, well, Tommy, I think.

It was whose straight-edge. Oh, you're right. Tommy Carroll. I get to hear about it from him. So it's fine, you know? Okay. To me, this is straight-ahead in a. runaway.

Interesting. So I think we're at an impasse. Yeah. Mike, I think we got to call on an expert here. You're going to call about this. I wonder what Scott would say about this, actually, because I know he's a turning point guy. He is. That's why I'm not going to call.

You fuck. Hello. What's going on? We've got Mark Porter from Floor Punch here. Perfect. Porter, we've got to ask you something very important. All right. We're at an impasse.

We're still on round one of the draft. Okay. This is to crown the best 1980s hardcore band of all time. We've got a damn near impossible matchup here. Straight ahead. Yeah. Versus turning point. Porter Malky disqualifies them, and they're New Jersey, and I still love them.

But slap base is a disqualification. You heard it? Slap base. I can't argue. Is a disqualification. Where are you right now, Porter? I'm at my son's I'm at my son's football practice

They are currently running The bleachers behind me Okay Can you imagine a more appropriate place for him to be Than his son's football practice Yeah straight ahead all the way Okay It's gonna come down to agnostic product of chromags

I think Spoiler alert Thank you so much Porter We may be calling you back for For round two Please do I look forward to it Thank you sir Later

See ya I can't argue with that What are you going to say? I can't argue with the guy from New Jersey telling me what it is. So there you go. Hey, I tried. Oh, this is good. I tried.

You did try, and it was valiant. And listen, Turning Point. I'm also, I'm not, like, mad about it. No, but at Tri-Hort one of, like, groundbreaking melodic band paved the way for emo and post-hardcore and all that. A lot of stuff I don't like. You know what I mean? But I really love.

Trit had paved the way for all the shit I like. Maybe that's the way to look at it, really. good point no I mean that's tough because it's a good point is all I'm saying yeah it is a great point thank you Porter that was great all right this is the thing that's going this matchup is going to make me lose my mind I cannot but they're on here though you know yeah but do DYS versus Dagnasty and listen we're gonna pick Dagnasty with Dave to make it interesting because then he's singing for both bands can I say has Brian B Baker and Dave. Can I say it's like a perfect kind of post hardcore, more skater vibe, very melodic. Very

influential. DYS. But again, inspired a lot of shit I don't fuck with. 100%. DYS. Another Boston heavy hitter. Fucking Wolfpack. Hateful. Hateful.

I got to go DYS. Oh, wow. I have to. I have to. Dude. Here's the thing. Love it. Okay, great. Because Dagnasty, also, I only really like, can I say.

I don't like Whigout very much. When we were texting about this bracket, you were telling me how hard you were going to fight for Dagnasty. I was until I really, you and I kind of framed at the beginning with like SSD and Ignosti Front suicidal. Like, we kind of framed how we have to think about this. And it's not just preference. It's more than that. DYS is, I mean, both bands change the game in many ways. DYS.

I was DYS all day here. Yeah, I'm with you. Fire and Ice, you know, like the rock stuff later on. You know, so I'm just saying like, they did a lot. They both have, they both have that, you know? Yeah, they did a lot. So I think it's- Personally, I'm a DYS guy.

Okay. Oh, fuck. This is, this is tough. This is tough. Because we've got negative effects. This is your guy, you know? Yeah. for those of you don't know, it goes last rights,

negative effects, slap shot is all Jack Chokelly's bands. He's sang in all of them. All bangers. Unfortunately, in this case, they're up against the giant. I can put it simply. As much as I love, all of that shit, especially the negative effects years and the cop. None of them touch Brightside.

None of them touch Brightside. And that's all due respect. It's all it is. It literally. Who talks about early Boston shit more than me. You're the guy. I love it. But none of it touches Brightside. And that's just objectively, dude, you're not

come home. Dude, even the demo is half of them damn songs and they already got it. Royal Deal demo rocks. And you look at, you look at 88 demo comes out, right? 89, Brightside. 90, last show, the video we talked about last week,

sickest thing I've ever seen. Done. That's a two-year legacy. And everybody in New York is there killing each other. This is, this was tough. This is a tough matchup. This is another one of those things where whoever was against Roddale

Killing Time in the first matchup was losing. Yeah. It's a tough. Period. So, but yeah, I think it's, it goes without saying. Right, right side is, that's it, you know. So that concludes round one. Yes.

Our winners for the round one right side are seven seconds. Yes. minor threat, bad brains, Cromax, underdog, straight ahead, DYS, and raw deal slash killing time.

All of these I'm happy with. I feel I'm pleasantly surprised. Yeah, you know, like, I did not expect straight ahead to make it through. I figured,

figured you would be tears in your eyes fighting for turning point, you know? I love turning point. Please. That's what I thought was going to be. I love turning point. point, but I can be, I can be

objective about some bands. All due respect to turning point, truly. They're on here, you know? Yeah. Straight ahead, it's straight ahead. So is this the semi-finals now? No. This would be the quarter-finals.

Isn't quarter-finals? Okay. Okay, quarter-finals. You'll see. Gotcha. We make this mistake every time. This is the quarterfons. I don't know. I'll do this for us.

Yeah. All right. Round two begins with Agnostic front versus SST. This is cool. This is awesome. They're kind of, dude, there's history there. There's like, you know, there's a couple feuds that have happened.

Similar time frame. Similar time frame, similar movements, similar, you know. This is cool. But you look at overall discogs and output, I got to go AF here. Of course. There's no argument there. All do, like, SSD, we bow down. You know, we thank you.

RIP, Al. A-F is A-F. A-F. Yeah. All right. Beautiful. Next round, we've got Youth of Today. Holy shit.

Versus negative approach. I'm going to argue for Youth of Today, obviously. But I'm going to do it because of the straight-edge thing, because of the subcultural you know like double subcultural impact sure and like kind of the youth through thing

and because they're my favorite bit I hear you I respect you you know we do this show every week call Alec it's negative approach call Alec you want me to call a guy from Grand Rapids Michigan

yeah a straight edge guy who loves rev shit as much as me you're fucked you're fucked no i have faith i'll do respect you today i have faith in the one of the greats can't wait to have them on someday it's negative approach

there is okay we have alec favor holy blade god's hate twitching tongues to answer this diabolical next question for which bow and i disagree alec we're doing a tournament bracket to determine the greatest 1980s hardcore band of all time.

Okay. The matchup you need to determine is youth of today versus negative approach. It's negative approach. If you don't get everything else everything else. Everything else. What are you

putting on right now? I can sing along to it. But this is subjective. This is this is what do we who do we like more? You know? they're the most important band to me but if you put if who's more important

hardcore as a whole it's a negative approach for sure but you can't do it we're not doing that so I don't know what your criterion is but the criterion is ultimately whatever you decide who are you saying in the winners because I say a negative approach both says you through today

you are the final say boom excellent thank you I tried you did you did I think oh no no but Scott sided with you.

Other than that, I think I'm three for four. Well, yeah, you fucking lined up all your judges. I got a line. No, but please. Hold on. I got it. Well, yeah, next one. Call fucking caution.

All right. All right, next up. Big matchup. Huge. Warzone versus sick of it all. I'm going war zone. I'm going sick of it all. Yeah.

Jesus. So here we are. How about that? Make the call, brother. Well, okay, let me, hold on. Give me a second. Listen, I, I, I, I'm, this, it is what it is. I know who to call.

When I was in elementary school, I did a, there was a report about, like, my day, like my day in fifth grade, fourth or fifth grade or something. Uh-huh. And in the book report, I'm going to try to find it. I mention, and then I say something like, and then I listen to In the Underground. My whole lot, I forgot what song that was throughout my youth and tried to figure it out and realized elementary school me was talking about Step

Down. Oh, really? In the Underground. I thought it was called In the Underground. So I was born with Blood Sweat and No Tears up my ass. and it lives there to this day so I'm going sick of all I just

all due respect towards him yeah who are you gonna call I was I'm trying to get a hold of Aaron Warman who I think would be a good he would stay sick of it all though wouldn't he

I don't know why don't we call Vitala would be good you want me to call him I can do it all right here we have Mr. James right oh we're live well we're live

I'm just on the music James, I've got a big matchup for you right now with the Mets hat. It's very appropriate for this. We're in the second. M-A-F basketball jersey. Beautiful. This second round matchup, we're at a standstill. We need you.

Warzone versus sick of it all. Isn't that tough? I don't know I feel totally off guard. I just feel like naked in the woods right now because I answered this in a basketball jersey. a hat that I'm proud of, but I'm just totally shocked right now. And then the question you're asking me is crazy. I know. Can I ask some questions on, like, how you're getting these answers?

Absolutely. Our goal here was pure gut feeling. It's just like gun to your head. You got to make a decision. Gun to your head, you got to make a decision. I went sick of it all. Both said Warzone. And I'll have you know that Warzone beat Black Flag in the first round.

As they should have. As they should have. my god. I think it's pretty impossible to beat plus sweat, no tears. I'm saying sick of it all. Thank you. I do it. I think longevity has to be a factor here and that's a huge part of my thinking. You're not wrong. And just like the sheer discogreful output, you know? And you're saying sick of it all? I'm saying sick of it all. I think you're saying sick of all, man. I hate the situation that I'm in right now. it's good. What do you say?

I'm flipping. You're, oh, I'm going to work, though. Wow. Yeah. Shocked. That's why he's our manager. I'm not fucking happy about it. I know, but you went warzone. And you know, listen, that's gut. Gut is gut. And we, we thank you. We may, we may be calling you back for round three. Okay. All right. You heard that.

There we go. I, I, I, I don't entirely disagree. Right. That's kind of the fun of this bracket is like, they're all winners. Anybody that wins, I'm going to be like, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, exactly. Especially if it's underdog. But just saying, yeah, okay, so Warzone goes on to the next round. Which is.

And up next, we've got a doozy. This is kind of all you because you're a bigger leeway guy and a bigger discharge guy than me. Okay. I'm going to defer to you. We've got leeway versus discharge. If you're going, impact, legacy, etc, it's discharge. If I'm going raw, gut, personal,

what am I putting on right now? I've listened to Leeway thrice a week. I'm going leeway. And I think that's fine. I think if there's a lot of purists who are going to be like, you guys are fucking nuts.

And we are. And we are. Yeah, right. We're crazy to do this in the first place. You know what? We're crazy, but not insane. Hey, there you go. And there we have it.

We have our left side quarterfinals. Yep. I think. I think. No, this is not the quarter final. I think this is just round two. Oh, okay. Quarterfinals next.

It was when there's four. So is this the semi-finals now? No. This would be the quarter-finals. Isn't the quarter-finals? Okay. Okay, quarter-finals. You'll see.

Gotcha. We make this mistake every time. This is the quarterfinals. I don't know how to do this for us. So our winners are, agnostic front Yeah Negative approach

Sick of Sorry Warzone And leeway Wow Stacked Stacked That's a lot of New York

It is All right Here we go Ready Immediately sucks Minor Do you think so? Yeah a little bit

Minor threat Versus seven seconds No it's minor threat It's minor threat It's minor threat You're right. All due respect, man. I love Reno.

My wife's from there. I love gambling. I love mountains. I did, I worked Riot Fest one year that seven seconds played. And I was selling merch. And I met Kevin and just talked to him for a little bit. And didn't hit him with any, like, hey, I'm a fan. None of that.

Just kind of like. And he was awesome. He was fucking sick. And I was like, you guys sold really well. You have like two shirts left. And he was like, really? Oh, wow. And it was just like, thankful.

cool and it was like do you want anything of what's left and i was like oh you're the best and i think honestly because they're they were just like one of that literally bought the crew from hot topic when i was like a preteen you know yeah that i just have always loved them but minor threat is minor threats minor threat is minor threat is minor threat and what can you do that what can you know yeah yep all right minor threat moves on and next we've got a doozy yeah oh wow we've got the bad brains versus the Cromax. I think you and I are going to agree on this. Yeah.

For what we want out of this music, the Cromags deliver what we want. More so. Oh, really? Oh, I'm going bad brains, dude. Because you're a quickness guy, right? I'm a quickness guy.

I'm a big eye against I guy. I'm a big rock for light guy. Really? So you're going bad brains? I'm going bad brains. I'm going Cromax. Here's the thing. If I call James, it's Cromax. I got Little Aaron. I got Aaron Warman on deck.

Aaron Warman would be a good, would be a good objective take here, I think. Okay. He says, okay, I'm available. I'm calling him right now. This is Aaron Warman, Long Island legend. Oh, yes. All right. We got him. This is the Aaron Warman. You guys know him briefly from our New York Harker Chronicles.

That's right. A couple cameos. A couple cams, yeah. Short end. You just get off work? I just got home. Perfect. All right.

I need you tired. I need your gut instinct on this one, okay? All right. We're ranking the greatest 80s hardcore band of all time. We have a bracket. Okay. Yeah, we're getting kind of far. Right now, you are tasked with deciding between the bad, the bad,

The bad brains and the crow mags. What the fuck out of here? Why am I being called for this? Long Island, dude. I just, I know you can provide. You've been out there. Jesus Christ, man. I went crow mags.

Colin went bad brains. We both independently love both bands. So it's all love. I'm happy with whoever wins. Right. Kill your mom or kill your dad. Yeah. That's literally how it feels.

Yeah. I mean, arguably, no bad brains, no cromags. Sure. You know? But just so you know, Warzone beat Black Flag first round. So we're not really doing that. Yeah. Jesus, man. This is, this is tough. This is heavy.

If it makes you feel better, Vitalo took his decision really hard as well. I could imagine. All right, let's see. I mean, listen, the bad brains are probably the most influential hardcore band ever. And I would say every band on this list would probably say the bad brains. Yeah. But the age of quarrel is also... It's pretty good.

It's the blueprint. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to go with the chromags on this. Beautiful. Wow. Beautiful. I think...

This is shocking. I think the Cromag's changed the trajectory of hardcore. Yes. In a way that has, you know, reverberated through the years. Beautiful. You think Bad Brains didn't do that? I don't know. Yeah.

Beautiful. Love the answer. I will, I'll let you know if we need you again. I wish we had instituted some kind of like one-time, one time veto rule. Ultimate veto rule. Would you, was this when you would have used it?

Oh, 100%. I probably wouldn't have used mine yet if you want to use it. I'll bank it. No. Dude, it's just like you're going to see my,

this is crazy. This is, this is, I think, a huge upset. I think you have to think about the kind of hardcore that we like and we create is more in line

with what the Chromeags did than with what the bad brands did despite both being influential and I agree it just doesn't change the fact but like I get the same feeling putting on eye inside that I do

best wishes you know you go track for track bad brands has more tracks no skips for like a long time but but then you're so then you're talking less quantity

more quality and I was saying that that bad brands have bad quality songs I'm just saying I'm saying even in bad brain's greater quantity the quality does not cease for a long time are you questioning

versus near-death experience well sure but are you questioning our judge's decision no I mean listen I'll allow Aaron he's been around a long time all right

Cromaggs goes on to the quarterfinals wow three for three We're three in three, by the way. All right, it's pretty good. I'm stunned. Yeah, I'm kind of surprised too.

But I'm glad I chose that hill to die on because I really do think, like, I don't know, man, there's a... Cromax would say bad brains. Cromag's would say bad brains. Bad brains would also maybe say, like, we're not a hardcore band. What are you talking about?

Right. What is, you know, we don't care what you're talking about. We play youth energy music. Yeah, which is dope. But I want hardcore flying the hardcore flag. Either way, I will die on the bad brints hill here. But you know, I love the Cromax. At the end of the day, I ain't mad about it.

He was right. Kill your mother, kill your father. It was, that is what it was. It was very difficult. That was maybe one of the toughest choices we'll have to make. Up next, we've got underdog versus straight ahead. It's fucking underdog. Okay.

All due respect to straight ahead, whom I love dearly. Underdog is, this is, this is, this is, this is a, this is a, a bite, an essential vitamin to me. A daily. This is a daily driver for me. Underdog. One a day. Come on. It's got to be underdog.

I agree. I agree. Okay. I wonder, I bet you're rich, you would say, are you fucking crazy? Maybe. But those are like, you know, they're legit contemporary bands. Yes. You know, essentially.

Okay. We've got D.Y.S. Versus Raudill killing time here. Listen, I have to be objective and I have to be fair. It's bright side. It's killing time. It's killing time. It just is.

And I love D.YS. Love DYS. No matter how you spin it, you're up against King Kong. Yeah, straight up. I will find other monsters to use. Trust me. But yeah, I think that. That's pretty easy.

That's an easy one. That was an easy one. Therefore, we have our quarterfinal set in stone. On the right side now, we have minor threat, the Cromax, Underdog, and Raw Deal Killing Time. On the left side, we have agnostic front, negative approach, war zone, and leeway. Holy moly. You know, Colin, I'm starting to get sweaty. I'm starting to get stinky.

I actually have a cure for that. You're kidding. Yeah. If you go to manscape.com, there's a product to make the sweatiest, stinkiest motherfuckers in the world. You're kidding. Just completely sane and normal.

What kind of products could this be? Don't get me, sir. Products such as the crop reviver, which is an easy spray for, you don't have to get in the shower. That's the best application. You know what I mean? 100%.

It's like, oh, I just went to the gym. I kind of stink. I'm about to hit the pit. Sprits, spritz, they'll smell me coming, and they're going to love it. They're going to welcome you into that pit. The crop preserver, post-shower, rub a little bit on there. It's like liquid talc. It's incredible. It's awesome.

The lawn mower, keep the lawn mowed. When the hedges aren't trimmed, you can get bugs in there. The weed whacker, clean out your nostrils, clean out your ear hairs if you got those. The body's... The Lord knows my dad does. And Father's Day is at some point this year. Neither of us would know, but it is kind of.

And if you use code hardlore, you're going to get 20% off and free shipping sitewide. Come on. You can't miss it. This episode is also brought to you by madvintage.com. M-A-D-D-Vintage.com. Every single band we've talked about is probably represented on there in some way. That is 100% true, including many of the honorable mentions. Oh, yeah.

All 73 of them are on there right now. Now, you go check it out and use code Hardlore 15. You're going to get 15% off your order. And you're going to need it because this stuff adds up, especially with how old some of these damn bands are. Luke is also looking to buy your stuff. And let me tell you something. He's getting good stuff.

And he's paying well. You guys got to get a hold of him. He'll buy your stuff that you're looking to offload. He's got all kinds of metal, punk rock, hardcore rap, like wrestling, random miscellaneous stuff on his site. He's also going to be in person at LDB, Furnace Fest, and I believe tied down. So sell them your stuff, and you may see us wearing it in a future episode. Okay.

I think it's quarterfinal time. Yeah, I think so. This is big. This is big. It's getting heavy. Our first matchup here, agnostic front, Goliath, versus negative approach, Goliath. I knew it. Gorilla versus Kong.

Yeah. This is a crazy one. This is crazy. Knee jerk? Yeah. AF. Yes, I agree. I agree.

And I love negative approach. 100%. And like many have said, like we have said, who knows where we'd be with that negative approach. But AF has such an expansive discography. Yeah. That evolves and ebbs and flows. And they got some new stuff coming that may blow our minds.

To me, this is, I am proud to send Ignatio Front to the semifinals here. Okay, I agree. That hurts to do. That was painful. Our next quarterfinal matchup, war zone versus leeway. I'm going leeway. I'm going war zone. but I don't know

I don't know if I can argue it you know it's just like what I'm gonna I know what I'm gonna put on is gonna be leeway because I know war zone shit like the back of my hand I'm less versed with leeway there's a reason you know it like the back here yes of course

you want to call on a judge who could we call you got somebody let's get Porter back on you know he did straight ahead and turnipoint now let's give him yeah Let's give him some hard shit to talk about.

Leway and Warzone. Mr. Porter, we've got you back. Yes. We are in our quarterfinal matchups here now. We've got a big one here. Okay. Warzone versus leeway.

As in Pryniz case. Two NYHC classics. I'm going to air with leeway due to the full catalog. and each record being amazing. That's a fair argument. You know, war zone for me is basically don't forget the struggle in the seven-inch. I'd have to tip my hat to leeway.

Outstanding answer. Outstanding answer. But two classics on the left, that is a tough one, but I have to give it to leeway. Two of the greats, I respect the zero hesitation. You had no preparation whatsoever for this, and he came swinging. Heat. I'm locked in. I'm locked in.

You're always locked in. Thank you so much, Porter. Appreciate you. your help. Have a good night, you too. Take care. Take care.

All right, I'm not angry at that. Fucking legend. He's so awesome. Uh, leeway. Yeah. So that's our quarterfinals. I'm not angry at that.

The semi-final matchup is Agnostic Front versus Leeway. Yeah. Chills. All right. We're going to the right side of the bracket here. Mm-hmm. The first quarter final matchup for the upper right district is minor threat versus the Cromax.

I mean, come on. What are you saying? Come on. I'm saying Cromax. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love minor threat, but also minor threat. Dysography is pretty short. Pretty small.

It is. You compare that to. I got, but here, dude, this is my original. My bracket that I did independently. Yeah. Bad brains goes real far. Uh-huh. They're gone.

So I'm... They're gone. I don't know what to do. You got to let it go. You think I didn't have you to today in this? No, I definitely do. Chromax versus minor threat, you're going no hesitation, Cromax?

What am I putting on? Yeah. Yeah. What do you put on now? That may be true, but this is one where I'm really thinking about, like, the best 80s HC of all time. Yeah.

Minor threat is minor threat. They're up there. Some might say semi-finalists. Quarter-finals at least, right? One of the two. But yeah, Cromag's to me, from musicianship

to evolving as a band, to having an impact, and to kicking ass and having a message with whether you're into the Christian or shit or into the vegetarian whatever they had a message they they were there and minor threat did too but it was very very short and that after minor threat they all very purposefully did like soft stuff to be like oh we're we're done with that we're over that embrace rights of spring fugazi you know yeah but i almost wish chromax have done that having heard near-death experience you know what

But what I'm saying is by the time minor threat was done, you wouldn't have gotten the best wishes. So I'm just saying, like, when you really, grand scope. Like, I've listened to age of quarrel. Yeah. Maybe more than I've listened to anything. Yeah. But this is hard. I might need a little help with this one.

Okay. It's really hard for me to make a pick Minor Threat versus Kromag. must be a Kempo or something he's not responded My My gut says Cromags My heart says my a threat Interesting You know

My gut says Cromags And my ass Says Cromags You know Wow Yeah strong Cromax Bukaku

I think I think we got to get somebody on the horn Here All right Calling James for that would not be fair So my judge would not I mean I mean

One record All right Todd, I'm sorry in advance to do this to you. I've got a brutal one here. This is a quarter-final matchup. Minor threat. And listen, this isn't like legacy or importance. This is like what you're putting on right now.

Okay. Minor threat versus the cromax. Minor threat, no question. Better old-school hardcore man? I see, see, he's... But it's... But it's, and it's like, the old school isn't even the factor. It's just like, who's winning?

Yeah, right, right. You know, I think there's an emotional depth to minor threat and more of a musical depth to minor threat than there is Cro-Mags. I mean, as great as age of choral is, God, age of coral is great. God, age of coral is great. Very narrow. It's very, like, the lyrics and the music, they all, I don't want to say everything sounds the same because it doesn't, but it does have like a very similar tone across the album. There's like a, there's a vibe.

Interesting. For sure. You know, it's very cold. It's very, um... I would call Minor Threat Beatles-esque in their, in their career is so sure and so impactful. And that what they managed to do with so little, to me is as much of a factor as a band having some expansive discography. Okay. Yeah.

On planet T.J. Cromag died after Asia Quarle. Wow. I don't hear about it being after Asia Quarles. Maybe not the best judge. So I might not be the person to ask on this one. Okay. I got no love for best wishes and I probably never will.

Wow. Breaking news. Yeah, I mean, I don't like, what are there other records? What's... Alpha Omega? Alpha and Omega, the... Near-death experience. Yeah, that's the one I'm thinking about

Like when I got into hardcore those records are super Corny and I I'm not going to say they're still super corny Like I think I understand them more a little bit Before I did then But it was just like Age of Coral and that demo was where it was at That's like fucking crow mags

Like all the other things it was less like Like to me best wishes sounds like a second or even third rate Like want to be master of puppets Wow And then the other shit is just like What is the song? Eyes of Tomorrow. Yeah, I love that song.

It's like, it almost sounds like biohazard, which biohazard is cool. And, yeah, I don't know, man. I might not be the right person for this question. No, it's kind of perfect. Maybe we'll consult a bonus judge here. I think he might need to. All right, but hey, your input is invaluable. Thank you so much, Todd.

Thank you, guys. All right. We'll talk to you soon. Later. See you. Stunning revelations in the quarterfinals. And L.S.E. Miserie is miserable yet.

The great song. I have a tattoo from that song. Hold on one second. Do we want to? I mean, yeah, I'm thinking about it. I'm still torn.

Because unlike Todd, I love Best Wishes. I love Alpha Omega. But he is right. Like when those were, that was not a popular opinion to have. 100%. It was only worry about age of world.

Don't worry about the rest. But that's almost. But that's almost an argument for why he's a better judge. Because it's kind of an equal body of work between the two. I agree. I think, I think it's minor threat. Okay.

I can't be mad about that, can I? Yeah. Oh, minor threat. It's in the final four? Great. You know? Yeah. I think,

I think that, you know, the only thing that robs us up is, uh, no, I don't want to say it yet. Okay. But,

but, yeah. Yeah. But, uh, minor threat goes on. And then, you know what I'm saying. Same outcome.

Yeah. So it's all good. Agreed. It's all good. All right. All right. Our next quarterfinal match. This to me has to be the most devastating one yet.

This is a rough one. God, I wish James... Okay. Go ahead. Introduce it, please. Underdog versus raw deal slash killing time. This one's crazy. I hate this.

Because I don't actually know how to really answer it. Because killing time is so perfect. Perfect demo. Perfect LP Done. And then, you know, no, they got more,

but perfect demo, perfect LP, you know? Yeah, sure, sure, sure. Whereas Underdog,

perfect 7 inch, where none of the same songs are on the LP. Right. Right. Perfect LP. That is like a crazy jump in evolution. Doesn't make sense.

It's innovative. Nothing sounds like a hundred dog. 100%. What sounded like bright sounds? you know dude when you put oh my god bright side is crazy

think about fools die teherna bened da da da da da fools die uh gink again uh I

I don't this is fucked up who's the most objective judge we could have on this I think we got to start this one ourselves okay okay well listen

we love both of these bands, Bo. It's underdog. It has to be a killing time. Right? I just, I think the Zoom thing happened and I went, it's underdog. Then you said it has to be killing time. I'm just thinking, what am I putting on? It's going to be underdog.

I mean, dude, I literally breathe, sleep, eat underdog. Yeah. All day, all night. All right. I celebrate Birkenhead Saturday every Saturday. I know. It's on the hard Lord calendar. I get notified for it every Saturday.

You're like, fuck, what do we got today? Oh, working on Saturday. All right. I'm fine. The final four being what it's about to be is fantastic. If you have any reservations. I only have a reservation because of how much I love Underdog. I'm with you.

And how much more I think how diverse and dynamic their music is. Those are the two things. Plus, I would agree. I would be quicker to say, like, Underdog Descog as a whole, goaded. I'll take it over almost anything ever. Brightside is easy top four Harker Records ever. Okay. Therefore, I think maybe that means they should be in the top four.

Okay. to the semifinals. Listen, it's weird because, like, I want to say underdog. Yeah, that's where I'm at. I want to say underdog. But I think it is killing time. Okay. All right.

I'm fine. I agree. Yes, it is currently killing time. It has to be killing time. Underdog is the underdog. Just like me. And, but they got here, you know? Yeah.

And again, in a different matchup, Underdog's making it to the finals. If we did this tomorrow, Underdog may win. But right now, killing time has to go to the semifinals. Okay. I think. All right. So what are our top four, Colin?

Our semi-final matchups are here. On the left side, we have Agnostic Front versus Leeway. On the right side, we have Minotrette versus Ler. Raw deal killing time. Crazy that killing time made it this far. That's fucking awesome. Kind of crazy. It would have been just as cool if Underdog made it this far, you know?

Yeah. And this is all due to the seeding. Yes, of course. Because again, like... If you etch-a-sketched this thing, it's totally different. Totally different. Bad brains could have gone all the way. Maybe should have gone all the way.

But here we are. First up, Agnostic Front versus leeway. I'm pretty confident in saying that it's an agnostic front. Okay, good. Good. 100%. Agnostic Front should go to the finals. Yes.

Okay. 100%. 80s hardcore band. 80s hardcore agnostic front has to go to the final. So, okay, beautiful. Now we have... That's that. And now we've got a doozy.

This is so funny. minor threat versus raw deal and killing time who is one band i don't know if we've clarified that yet obviously yes how does this make you feel good it makes me feel it makes i'm having fun because everything that could be said about like the the chrome mags one lp kind of end demo can be said about killing time 100% right so it's kind of the same argument but but See, this is what's interesting is like, I want to go Kromag's over my threat, but I kind of want to go killing time over myta threat. But when I see that on paper, I don't know if I can sign off on that. How about I call a judge?

Who? How about I call James Plicky? Or Chris. Okay. What do you think? It's called Chris. He's never on the shot. I'm open to it because I'm stunned here.

Maybe for the final. We call James because I know it's... I feel like a flash grenade just went off. I got you. Minor threat versus killing time. I'm going to call Chris. He's never been a guest judge on the show. He's a little camera shy.

Huge day. Big day. Look at this handsome man walking his dog. Oh, look that hair. Sean Hunter-esque. You can't hear Colin, unfortunately. But where we are... We have a bracket going, Chris, where we are determining the best 80s hardcore bands. Okay. And we got you down to a quarterfinal, semi-final. We can't figure it out yet. This is a semifinal.

And this is a diabolical matchup. We've been calling various judges, and I needed you on this. Your bracket is minor threat versus raw deal slash killing time. That's a tough one for me, honestly. Go ahead, sorry. No, no, it's tough for us as well. Because you got to keep in mind, minor threat has made it this far. They've beaten Kromag's, seven seconds, you know, bands within that tier. They've beaten some serious bands.

So, like, they've made it far. Yeah. So it's hard for me to not personally go with minor threat, just given the impact that minor threat had on my life. And personally, what I think the impact minor threat had on just, like, hardcore and straight-edge hardcore in general. And, like, DIY and punk and... Yeah, yeah. I mean, no doubt, right?

Like, you can't separate it from, like, Discord records, you know? Yeah. And, like, what that label did for. DIY music, hardcore music, you name it. So, like, personally, I gotta go with minor threat. Just because it is, obviously, it's pretty instrumental to my love for punk and hardcore, you know? Yeah.

And obviously, like, you can't separate the legacy personally. So, I think that's right. I think that's right. I think I'm with him. We're with you. We just needed somebody to let us down softly, you know? Yeah, I'll go minor threat. All right, buddy.

All right. I'll talk to you later. Outstanding. See it. I, and you know, my gut and heart say minor threat. But like, put bright side on right now. Pause this. Yeah.

Listen to the whole thing and tell me that ain't top four all time. Yeah. Yeah. Da, da, da, da, da. Gant, come on. That's. Oh, that's what's all about. I just got chills.

I know. I did it at the gym today. I couldn't believe it. I may do it after. But I think that we got it, that that means our finals are set. This is beautiful. This is incredible. Yeah.

Our finals for the best 80s hardcore band of all time, agnostic front versus minor threat. Wow. This is a tale as old as in time. A tale of two cities. A tale as old as in time. This is Godzilla versus as like if, so if Tokyo had a Godzilla. Yeah. And Osaka had another Godzilla.

Two Godzilla's. This is the same thing. Imagine that. That's a good one. There's other Kaiju's, but other two Godzilla's because that's what we have here. Ignotic Front versus Minor Threat I'm going AF. I think I am too.

I think I am too. I love minor threat. But again, it's a couple. The discography is like a comp. You know, it's essentially a compilation record versus several

influential AF records. Several life-changing LP. he's in different eras of hardcore. And like, errors of hardcore are short. You know?

Yeah. Two, three years maybe. And AF adapted and edbed and flowed through every single one of them. To this day. And evolved brilliantly and perfect. To this day. And that is maybe the ultimate argument. A.F. has to win this.

Should we call people just to solidify? Because I think that would be fun. I got to get an I mean out of James, you know? I would like to hear that. Okay. I think we only called Scott once, so I think we got to get one more Scott. Good. Here he comes.

All right, buddy, boy. You're on the show. We are ranking the best 80s hardcore bands in our finals. We have, and we need you to weigh in on this. What you think is the best hardcore band between agnostic front and minor threat. Oh, agnostic front, not even close. expand on that for me. To me,

Ignatcic Front is probably the earliest thing that I would say is influence modern hardcore more than anything. I mean, they had short songs. They were fast. They were angry. They weren't recorded very well.

I mean, United Blood 7-inch is absolutely legendary. Don't get me wrong. I mean, minor threat, obviously influenced trade is and influence a lot of things. But I'm talking, when you think about 80s hardcore, I mean, I think Ignostic Front has influenced way more bands than Meyer Threat has in the past 40 years.

Wow. Just my opinion. Beautiful. Perfect. That's what we needed. Sound reason. Thank you, buddy. You got it.

See it. All right. I mean, that's a pretty resounding win for AF. Hip shot, just no, you know. Yeah, that was, that was no question. And I agree. I think I have to too. I just, it's nice to hear if we don't have a bias in this discussion.

Yeah, I don't think we do. I think this is pretty objective here. And I think our reasoning for it makes total sense. I agree. There's many factors to consider. And I think Ignoxic Front checks every box. Longevity may be the biggest one that. That may be.

And please, let's reiterate the whole like, Like, I have the Discord first five or six, seven inches box set. And you look through these things, and it's like a faithful recreation of all, that they made by hand with scissors and glue, you know? And they made all of them. And like, that's really cool. None of this happens really without that. And the minutia of it all is so cool.

And those are the things I can't wait to talk about them with them someday. is just like, how do you get people to be aware of this show you're playing? Yes, yes. How do you figure out which glue to use with the flyers, you know, or the records? Yeah. So that is all obviously so important. But A.F. In many arguments, I would say, but minor threat is minor threat.

Right. In this argument, I would say, but A, Agnostic front is agnostic front. They're agnostic front. And also, like, let's not forget what they and Vinny did for, like, C-Bs. Yeah. Just like the shows happening and hardcore matinees happening. And what do they often refer to as? The godfathers of hardcore.

And there you have it. There you go. Agnostic Front is the greatest 1980s hardcore band of all time. We want to congratulate all 32 nominees here. If you all had a shot, truly. Yeah. Honor Dog, you really did. You really did.

We also want to give a shout out to all the honorable mention. Should I list them again? Okay. Yeah, we want to give a shout out to all the honorable mentions, by the way. Just real quick. DeCroids and Zero Boys, FHs, Dix, Dead Boys, Millions of Dead Cops, Adolescence, antidote, naked, Reagan, and chain of strength, Dead Kennedys, D.O.S.O.A. FU.U.'s. Jerry Kids, Fear, Gangering, Flipper, Germs, Life's Blood, Government issue,

Iceman. Iron Cross, JFA, Meatmen, Miniman, Murfkees, Law, Necro's, Nerve Agent, and Sub Zero, Project X, Reagan Youth, Red Cross, Youth, Youth, Youth, Youth, Scream, Siege, SNFU, subhumans from Canada, of course. T-S-O-L, teen idols, token entry on dead, urban waste, rest in pieces, verbal abuse, bad religion, social distortion, and who can forget the circle jerks? Definitely not us. And crackdown. We forgot crackdown.

That's it, folks. That's our time. That's our episode. I must protest, sir. You and I have separate brackets that we need to share. Oh, you're right. Of course. So here's mine. You'll see AF still making it to the finals. But I got bad brains in the finals with them. Okay.

And AF still wins. So I came upon the same winner. Oh, interesting. Interesting. Yeah. So I went, my top four were Youth Today, Kromag's, Killing Time. You had Youth Today on top?

I had Youth Today all the way, baby. Really? They're my favorite band. They check every box possible for me. Wow. So this is drastically different from what we did together. With mine, I answered from the heart. Boom.

Did you have underdog in the semis? Underdog lost to Turning Point. That's diabolical. I love Turning Point. I got into Turning Point long before I got into Underdog. I didn't get Underdog at first. Okay. So there's a certain sense of nostalgia for me.

The toughest matchup for me easily. was Underdog and Raw Deal killing time. Yeah. That is a crazy tough one. But now, for that, so I went turning point and then killing time and between the two I went killing time. Yeah, easily. Just to show you that I'm still grounded, I just got there

different ways, you know? So who made it to the top semi? The top semi was AF versus Youtha Today. On the top right, I mean, sorry. Oh, my bet. It was minor threat. and Kromag's.

And Kromag's went to... And Kromag's, yep, went to the finals, and then turning point and killing time. So yeah, it was Yuttha Today, Kromag's judge Kulag's. Judge Killing Time. And Youth Today went all the way. You said to the moon, baby. So that's a very different list.

You'll see. Very different. Together, we're different, but I'm somehow the same. And that's our episode, folks. I'm sure you're pissed or you can understand our sound logic here. But, you know, we got some objective judges here. We got some people we respect, you respect, to help us aid through this journey, you know? So here we are.

Yeah, I love doing these because you and I are just in the trench together. Like there's no. Taking grenades, getting our limbs blown off. And surviving to love agnostic front. Yes. That's worth it. Thank you all so much for watching. We are so sorry for what we put your brains through.

And we'll see you next week. Bye.