HardLore - The Best 2000’s Hardcore Band (Tournament Bracket)

Episode Date: January 8, 2026

The time has come… After crowning the best 1980’s and 1990’s hardcore bands in heated tournament brackets, we are now crowning the best 2000’s (2000-2009) hardcore band of all time…We lived through this era so we’re finally qualified to weigh in (lol), so sit back, don’t relax, and be prepared to yell at the screen as we put 64 of the best bands of the new millennium head to head to battle it out.____________________Cool links:HardLore Official Website/HardLore Records store: https://hardlorepod.comGet 10% off GUILTY PARTY site-wide with code HARDLORE and grab some of our favorite clothing brands of all time: https://www.guiltyparty.co/Get 15% off MILLS VINTAGE site-wide with code HARDLORE: https://www.millsvintageusa.com/Get 15% off TIMELESS COFEE site-wide, including coffee subscriptions, cookies and cakes with code HARDLORE:  https://timelesscoffee.com/_______________00:00:00 - Start00:03:36 - Converge vs. Rampage00:05:24 - Bitter End vs. The Hope Conspiracy00:06:35 - The First Call00:09:12 - Trapped Under Ice vs. Violation00:10:50 - Shattered Realm vs. Born From Pain00:12:21 - Framtid vs.Think I Care00:15:08 - Carry On Vs Justice00:16:05 - Trash Talk vs.Pulling Teeth00:18:12 - Iron Age vs.The Promise00:20:53 - No Warning vs. Bracewar00:22:08 - Ceremony vs. New Lows00:24:07 - Cold World vs. Donnybrook00:27:05 - Piece by Piece vs. Reach The Sky00:29:11 - Mental vs. Extortion00:31:20 - Tragedy vs. 86 Mentality00:33:08 - American Nightmare vs. First Blood00:34:47 - Rise And Fall vs. The Killer00:38:35 - Left Side Recap 100:39:15 - Down To Nothing vs. Wisdom In Chains00:43:06 - Cursed vs. Count Me Out00:44:27 - Stout vs. Deadstop00:45:58 - Pardon This Interruption00:51:40 - Comeback Kid vs. Ramallah00:54:57 - Terror vs. Betrayed00:55:43 - Cruel Hand vs. World Collapse00:58:45 - Outbreak vs. Guns Up!01:01:07 - 100 Demons vs. Go It Alone01:02:41 - Righteous Jams vs. Suicide File01:04:56 - Internal Affairs vs. Lights Out01:06:11 - Bane vs. Desperate Measures01:07:39 - Knuckle Dust vs. Numb01:09:42 - Throwdown vs.Death Before Dishonor01:12:44 - Blacklisted vs. The Warriors01:13:56 - From Ashes Rise vs. Allegiance01:14:48 - Round 2...01:15:15 - Converge vs. Bitter End01:16:02 - Trapped Under Ice vs. Shattered Realm01:16:23 - Framtid vs. Carry On01:16:36 - Pulling Teeth vs. Iron Age01:17:18 - No Warning vs. Ceremony01:18:42 - Cold World vs. Piece by Piece01:20:57 - Mental vs. Tragedy01:23:53 - American Nightmare vs. Rise And Fall01:24:03 - Left Side Round 2 Winners01:24:19 - Down To Nothing vs. Have Heart01:24:57 - Count Me Out vs. Stout01:25:38 - Comeback Kid vs. Terror01:25:55 - Cruel Hand vs. Outbreak01:26:30 - 100 Demons vs. Righteous Jams01:27:18 - Internal Affairs vs. Bane01:28:43 - Numb vs. Throwdown01:29:56 - Blacklisted vs. From Ashes Rise01:33:34 - Round 3...01:33:56 - Converge vs. Trapped Under Ice01:35:16 - Carry On vs. Iron Age01:36:18 - No Warning vs. Cold World01:37:32 - Mental vs. American Nightmare01:39:16 - Round 3...01:39:27 - Have Heart vs. Stout01:40:16 - Terror vs. Cruel Hand01:40:28 - 100 Demons vs. Internal Affairs01:40:48 - Throwdown vs. Blacklisted01:41:12 - Quarter Finals....01:41:45 - Trapped Under Ice vs. Carry On01:42:41 - No Warning vs. American Nightmare01:43:54 - Semi Finals Left Side Recap01:44:03 - Have Heart vs. Terror01:45:02 - 100 Demons vs. Blacklisted01:52:56 - Trapped Under Ice vs. No Warning01:53:43 - Terror vs.100 Demons01:54:32 - The Finals...  HardLore: A Knotfest Series, Fueled by Monster EnergyEdited by Steven Grise • Title sequence by Nicholas MarzlufJoin the HARDLORE PATREON to watch every single weekly episode early and ad-free, alongside exclusive monthly episodes.Join the HARDLORE DISCORD for community discussions and to participate in our future Q&A episodes.FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER, SPOTIFY, APPLEFOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAMFOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER For sponsorship opportunities, email us! [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Bitter End, San Antonio, versus the Hope Conspiracy. Another Boston monolith here. HopeCon, I love. Oh, are you leaning? I'm going Bitterend here. I'm going full HolbeCon. So let's see, let's get somebody on the horn here. Here we go.

Dan, are you, are you, you, you're about to be? Can you have a special guest on the podcast? Who? MJF. Oh, yes. MJF. MJF is going to weigh in on something very important. Oh, Max, if you had to pick between bitter end or hope conspiracy, who would you pick?

Oh, the suicide file. Holy shit. Hello, welcome. It's Hardlore time. Here we go again. Yeah, we do this to ourselves. We do this to you. I hope if you're going to listen to this episode, you're alone so that when you're yelling, you're not scaring anyone.

Yeah, easy. This is the official Hardlore episode to crown the best 2000s hard. core band of all time. Now, I know what you've been thinking the past 24 hours or so as you've been staring at this bracket. Oh, my God, there's twice as many. You know, we were there. So we're finally really qualified to handle this. Yeah, this is one where we, as Colin said, we were there. It's a lot of our peers, a lot of people we're still friends with to this day. And there's a lot of bands that aren't on it because there's that many bands. You know, it's crazy. It was impossible to do an honorable mention section because there were as many

regular mentions. So we had to just go ahead and double it. And we know there's still some things missing. You cannot please everybody. We know you're blowing up the comment section saying, where is this band? Where is this band? They, there were, turns out there were 64 bands that we thought fit a little better. Yeah. And I'm sure we're, we forgot Ramallah until minutes before this. this. Yeah, ridiculous. If we don't do this right now, the whole thing will be different tomorrow.

Yeah, and we should clarify to when we say 2000s band, we're talking 2000 to 2010. That's right. And some of these bands started in the 90s, but their era was the 2000s. Very important. You know, carry-ons on here. They broke up in 2001, played one show in 2005, but we all spent the whole decade hoping they'd play again. And that means

there are 2000s back. Converge started in the 90s. 80s? 90s. 90s, but that's a certified ran the 2000s. Right.

So it's all about the kind of the era, not just first thing they ever did. And if you've seen any of our other tournament bracket episodes, you know that sometimes

we get stuck, we hit an impasse, we hit a road and we need a little help. So we'll be calling in some guests who have not been prepped on the bracket to

to be our tiebreakers in the toughest moments of this episode. Yeah. Yeah. So what do you say? I say we start. All right. Matchup number one, left side, top of the page, we got a Boston showdown.

Converge versus Rampage. All right, listen. The first round of these things is, it's tough to be fair because when there's a especially when there's a band like converge yes like I'm sorry

here's the thing everybody complained about our first couple brackets because I didn't seed them at all it was just like here's heat heat versus heat massive band versus massive band this is seeded pretty well now which leads to the first round

being pretty brutal so Rampage gets the shit end of the stick here for sure but great band straight up capital H.C of a great amazing discography. Not a bad song.

But Converge is the clear winner. What's fun about this is as you said, we were there. So we can literally talk about how like Converge was at one point like in hindsight seemed like turnstile.

Seemed like in a creative league of their own. And huge. And doing all these crazy tours and constantly in doing all this cool art stuff and DVDs and just things that were just like, wow, you can do that. So ahead of their time. So ahead of the time. That damn Jane Doe face sold about.

I know. This is a band that all of our peers look. A band where if they're playing a fest, the band's go and watch or they're playing the show. Everybody's watching, you know. Yeah, that's a monitor sellout. So Converge is a clear winner here. out Rampage, though, great band. Matchup 2. Bitter End, San Antonio,

Climate of Fia. Yeah. Versus the Hope conspiracy. Another Boston monolith here. It's funny because I actually thought Bitterend was a little later, but that being said. The P.P. is like 2005, Climate Affair was 2007. Oh, look at that.

I really didn't know that. That's a perfect record. HopeCon, I love. Oh, are you leaning Bitter End? I'm going Bitter End here. I'm going full HopeCon. All due respect to Bitter End, but HopeCon. Listen, I love him.

I'm a huge fan. I'm a day one fan. Dude, also to consider the comeback record with like Animal Farm on it, what's it called? Death knows your name. Dude. So good. Came out of nowhere and rocked, you know.

I agree. and I also think Bitter End, climate of fear is like a decade defining hardcore album to me. But we're at an impasse. We're at an impasse. Already. I didn't expect that. Yeah. I mean neither. But it is what it is. This is why this is fun.

I love HopeCon. I love Bitterin. And here we are. Okay, we can't call anyone from New England or Texas. So let's see, let's get somebody on the horn here. I can't believe the second round we're doing it. here we go Dan are you are you you're about to be can you have a special guest on the podcast who J yes MJF MJF is going to weigh in on on something very important Dan one of these like weird goth music again all right so here we go Dan we're crowning the best

2000s hardcore band of all time of all time no we're we're at an impasse We're at an imp-I-no. I know. We all do. But we're at an impasse, and we need, we're, this is matchup two, and we're stuck. Okay. Bitter end versus the Hope conspiracy. Bitter-end. There you go. So much more than rope. Climate of Fear, decade-defining, right? Yeah, I would absolutely agree climate of fear. It's like an era-defining record.

Max is saying Frank Sinatra. Yeah. Tell them about, to ask Max, bitter and or HopeCon? Max, if you had to pick between Bitter End or Hope Conspiracy, who would you pick? Suicide. Oh, the suicide file. Suicide file, yeah.

They're coming up. All right. Thank you, Dan. I may call you back. Okay, bye. Bye. There you have it. Definitely keeping that end.

Yeah, 100%. We got, okay, so Bitter End and suicide take the round. That's very surprising to me. Very surprising to me. I, you know, Bitter End broke out, dude. I wonder if it's because at the time I was into HopeCon, I wasn't into like heavier, heavier yet. And Hope Cotton was kind of weird, had like musical parts

as opposed to kind of like best wishes type stuff. I wasn't there yet, you know, so I wonder if just hindsight. I would say even in the time, 2007, common of fear comes out, it changes. the landscape. All right. One of those landscape changing bands. Not that HopeCon wasn't. Dark H.C. You know, next, okay, next matchup here.

Man. Sorry, guys. Trapped into ICE versus Violation. Violation is one of the greatest Ventura County. This is a Santa Barbara HC band. One of the best 805 hardcore bands of all time. And some other matchups here, they could

go very far. Unfortunately for them, they were seated again. the band that killed melodic hardcore once and for all, got everybody in bigger jeans, bigger hats, bigger shirts, trapped under ice, changed the world. Yeah, you want to say era defining. I mean, that's, TUI is one of the bands with like with a bullet, you know, where it's like.

United the world. Yeah. The beat down kids, the posy kids, the straight edge kids, the crusties, everybody loves TUI. To this day. Very good. point. And also like, you know, I didn't know about bands from Baltimore. I didn't know about Stout. I found out about Stout because of TUI. As I'm sure many, it did many, you know.

You know, I think that's cool. It's a band from a place. And I identify with that where maybe not a lot of people know about the music going on there. It's, it's TUI for sure. There you go. All due respect to violation. I totally agree. Violation, dude. I mean, that was, they were kind of a local see change too because they were all in crowbar shirts and ripping off life is pain very early for I mean they were they changed the game here

at least but TUI changed the game everywhere yeah what can you do up next shattered realm versus born from pain this is the kings of New Jersey beat down versus the kings of German

hardcore really yeah I've only seen born for pain once one time dude they have a like eight great records. It's crazy. Shadow Realm, broken ties, spoken lies, masterpiece?

I mean, this is a Colin Young bracket. These bands weren't really in my wheelhouse at the time. These two. I would say when I was 17, I wanted my first tattoo to be a Shattered Realm tattoo.

I did not get that tattoo, but I did feel that way. I didn't feel that way about Born for Pain. but I think Shadow Realm has two LPs Broken Ties spoken lies and from the dead end blocks where life means nothing

Born from Payne has a lot of great records but I don't know that any of them hold up to the modern audience as much as Broken Ties does on its own I see I fear it I think it must be Shattered Rome I'm good with that Born from Jane definitely

born from pain or definitely synonymous with that era of hardcore for sure. You know, yeah, I think that's the right decision. Massive band. You know, and like broke out. They crossed over. They got over in the U.S.,

which was very hard for international bands in the 2000s. Very hard. I can name like four. Insane matchup next. Yeah, I feel like we're going to be. Nowhere but here can this happen. And that's really the most beautiful thing.

And I want to remind you all, that's what this is really about, is putting you on. this big list of things rather than actual, we don't give a fuck about the winner. Everybody knows it's between five of these bands. Yeah, yeah. But we get to talk about franted versus think I care right now.

I feel like we're going to be at another impasse. Oh, yeah, I would think so. Because franted is not really anything to me. Man, I've played with them twice. Yeah. Japanese crusty legends. Yeah. Zero skips.

Debeat Masters still rocking expertly to this day. a massive discography. That's impressive. You know, I think I cares got mongrel. What's the other one? World Asylum. World Asylum, of course.

Is that the role? Is that it? And then the new thing. And then the new thing. Which is very good. They just had, they got a way about them, you know?

I don't know. There was just, there was something about how that group approached music that hit so fucking hard. I completely agree. And it's the, there's a band we're going to talk about later where I feel the same,

where it's not overly, obviously, hard, like classically, like what hard means now is a different thing than what Think I Care was doing. And it's still harder than so many things. It's a convention, it's like a different kind of conventional hardness.

And I'll give you the best example later, but I don't want to talk about it because they're coming up. Incredible band. Obviously, I'm a frampeded head. Okay. I mean, it's not necessarily a hill that I want to die on because I'll give you a little hint. Either one's losing the next round. So.

100%. So, like, it's fine. We don't, like, I'll accept that. But I mean, here's the thing. In the U.S., and this is another thing. This is not, we did not put this bracket together with the thing in mind of, like, what was most popular at the time. It's the best up, you know? Right.

Some things we did add because of how popular it was at the time. Not necessarily because... Right, right, right, right. But that's not to say, I think Frampton is like so much insanely better than think I care because they're both such great bands. I think the sheer depth of their discography, their consistency, and their unique position on this list makes them the winner to me. Okay, I'll accept it.

we've got a lot to argue about later. Yeah, I know, I know. But it's not a hill I need to die on. Carry on versus justice. Oh, man. I saw justice with either dead stop or with 86 mentality. I think 86 mentality at DePaul University, maybe 2005. Love.

They had the weirdest songwriting, really cool. I like that record very, very much. Carry on changed my life I'm not I'm not exaggerating the 7 inch and the LP fucking

rearranged how I thought about what this kind of music could be I agree and justice is maybe the best to ever do the like super touch worship style

yeah Carry on is one of the best fans ever ever period carry on yeah I mean that's you guys

no us. Justice for justice, but Karen wins here. Yeah. Very interesting matchup up next. Oh. Trash talk

versus pulling teeth. Now, if you want to talk popularity, trash talk was over. They crossed over to all sects. That fucking t-shirt? Yes.

Everywhere. Still at the mall. You know, you go to borders. It's right there. Pulling teeth, creative band. Original.

band. Dude, the dead is dead. Yeah. What a banger. What are you so afraid of? Come on. What are you? Oh. Dude, they wrote, I think the Dead is dead is like one of the greatest

vegan, most convincing vegan anthems of all time. Oh, interesting. Where I read that and I thought, he's got a point. This is tough. This is tough. I've seen both bands a handful of times.

Yeah. Just played with Trash Talk at the ICP. And it was probably insane. It was awesome, you know? I would say if this was who was most popular, it would be Trash Talk. Yes. If it's who I listen to more, it's pulling teeth. Yeah, I think that's how it was for me.

It feels, it just feels a little crazy because we're talking about, yeah, okay, because we were talking about converge and TY's like impact or Bitter Ends Impact. But that's not the only thing. Because impact-wise, trash talk had a much bigger impact. To this day. So we're not... Like, still impacted. Yes.

So we're not only talking about that. I love pulling two. Me too. Me too. I think I'm going to pulling two. Okay. I'm with you. All due respect to trash talk.

Yeah, of course. They were, I mean, both bands, so this was initially 32 bands. You know? We made it 64 because we had so many honorable men. tensions. Trash talk and pulling teeth were both on there immediately.

So both no-brainer matchups. Trash talk could have gone a lot further, but pulling teeth takes it this time. Iron Age versus the promise. Now this is interesting

because Iron Age, I remember Iron Age playing Chicago and everybody like went and sat down because it was like, oh, this band sucks. We were young.

Which is so crazy because the first LP is like everything you like. Dude, I think it was mental blacklisted Iron Age and blacklisted huge. Yeah, of course.

But Iron Age sounds more like best wishes than and you love best wishes, you know? Not in 2000, whatever. No, I totally understand. I did not, you know. So I don't think Iron Age sucks. I actually think Iron Age is sick now. Amazing to.

But I'm just explaining that like it's very interesting because at the time, You know, I only saw them once And it was like, oh, yeah, we don't like that band I was, it was young, I didn't know Saw Promise once too, fucking love the promise I love These are ideological opposites, you know

We got kings of, we got the guys Who were doing the Volcano weed bag Before anybody versus Syracuse Straitage. I think of the two Yeah, Iron Age is clear winner I think what they're, and if we're talking impact They're not talking with, I know,

But two LPs and could probably headline any U.S. festival tomorrow? Yeah. Promise probably couldn't. But, you know, many riffs. Straight edge. That's a perk. Believer. Crush all fakes.

Again, I will. Okay. I'm fine with that. Not a hill I need to die on. I would probably personally put the promise. It's just funny looking down the road and just being like, well. If we call anyone, do you think they're agreeing? with you? Oh, if we called one of

yes. But you, one of the four people that don't think the exact same as you, you know? Yeah, right. Yeah, because Chris and James are absolutely agreeing with me. Caution would probably agree with me. I wonder what... You're all the same guy. I know, I know, I know. That's why I'm saying

that I don't count. I know. The first person you tried to call was Brody. You are the same person. Yeah, yeah, but Bitter End versus HopeCon, that's not a... Those are two bands I've never heard him talk about. You know? Oh, sure. That was my thinking, then.

I've never broed down with Nate about the hope conspiracy or bitter. I wonder, I wish Bob would have answered because this would be a good one for him. He's going Iron Age. All right. I would bet my life on. All right. Next, we're halfway through the first round. Yeah.

First round of the first round. This is insane. No warning versus Brace War. Listen, Brace War in 2006. Pandemonium Rich Mund Straight up, dude played more

sound almost second most Sound infurias than any other band that we found No Warning was one of those

sea change game changing bands The best New York hardcore band The best New York hardcore band from Canada demo 7 inch

first LP suffer, survive. Absolutely. All happened in this one decade. All bangers. It's no warning here. Of course. All due respect.

Of course. And I'm sure braces would agree. You know what I mean? Ryan braces basically extended family to all. You know? He was unk before unk was up. But it is

it is no warning here. Yeah. fascinating matchup next. Yeah. One of those bands. Ceremony? Another one. Yeah.

Sold out the motherfucking Palladium. Yeah. Versus New Lowe's, who I've briefly played for. I love Nulos. Me too. When the first, it was either the demo or a seven-inch or whatever the first Nulose thing, when that came out, we listened to, I think it was just a seven-inch. We listened to it nonstop. Yeah.

I love the LP, too. Harvest the car. What is the LP Harvest of the Carcass or is that a song? So it was literally it would be the TUI demo and the new new los like back and forth because they're around. Get the fuck out of here. And I'm pretty sure was the home I think I care writing that first one. Yeah.

It was Doug free. D.FJ. I think. I think you're right. Come on. New Lows rocks. If you don't know new lows, check out new lows. Oh my God, dude.

All do respect to them. It's got to be ceremony. Yeah. Ceremony, a meteor. Legit meteor. Yeah. And so much, so, such a dynamic discography. Discography?

We talked about it with Anthony when we spent the day with him, but like dressing and performing how he did at that time and touring was scary. That's a difficult thing to do. Today it would be a difficult thing to do. At the time it was quite a bit, you know, and he fucking owned it. They owned it. They went off hard. They killed. Dude, we did a tour.

It was have heart blacklisted ceremony, let down and convicted. Ceremony, like, kind of stole the show every night, you know? Unmatched energy ahead of their time in many ways. Ceremony wins here. Yeah. Oh man, big one for me. Cold World versus Donnybrook. I'm from California.

Yeah. So Donnybrook is second eight. The songs are so ingrained in my brain at this point. Well, yeah. That they're just part now and now especially. But Donnybrook, both great bands. I had the Donnybrook seven inch in the back of a car and it warped in the sun. Nice.

Got it at a Chicago heist that turned into the Rumble. Saw them play one time. Liked them. Didn't get it, you know? Too young. 15, 16. You see him now with Drea and Martine singing? I think I would get it.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Cold World, one of the biggest hardcore bands of the decade. And like, kind of still. This is the weird thing is the 2010s and 2020. didn't, haven't yet produced a lot of headliners. Oh, interesting. Interesting.

The 2000s are still kind of headlining stuff when they're in there, when they're in the mix. I think that's changing now, you know, with like drain tsunami speed. Yeah. Turnstile is obviously the exception to every rule. But like a lot of a lot of festival. headliners are in this list and the 90s

and obviously the 80s. Very good point. Cold World is a festival headliner. Absolutely. And we're at the time. Donnybrook, I love so much. This is hard for me. Yeah, I think it's Cold World.

If you consider everything and impact, I think it has to be. Having played for Donnybrook, I will pardon my bias. And agree with you. It is tough when it's a Southern California band. Big time.

Seeing him a billion times. Been so terrified. But the biggest relief while seeing Donnybrook is that Dre was on the stage. He was on the stage, yeah. He's not out there. It was honestly a very, Donnybrook pit as long as you were pitting, was a very safe place to be. As long as Corey Williams was not pitting or on stage, pitting for Donnybrook was a safe place to be.

I mean, you had some fucking scumbags in there, for sure. But as long as you were about it and you were really participating, you're going to be all right. But Dre being on stage and not moshing near me was always really.

Not being from either place, Wilkes-Barre or Southern California. I think it's I think it has to go to Cold World. Okay. Next round is a is a is a bias i will not i'm i'm no bias here piece by piece which is it's a shame that donnie brook didn't win because that would be interesting that would be fun piece by piece is one of the greatest bands of all time piece by piece is a top 10 los angeles hardcore band in history

and they're against reach the sky here all due respect to reach the sky they were again on the bracket immediately obvious two thousand's pick piece by piece better than the Rolling Stones to me. And I think this is the man I was talking about where much like Think I Care, they're not conventionally hard in the way you would think hard is now. They're harder than any beatdown band

without doing any of that kind of thing. Yeah. Every song holds up. It's peace by piece. I'm fine with that. I saw reach this guy one time. I didn't, again, I didn't connect with it because it was like kind of melodic.

Like I didn't, I didn't. Yeah, there's like an amazing core element to it, you know? Yeah. Very. But then the singer went on to do a band called Stand Accused. And the Stand Acuse demo is fucking awesome. If you know about that, that was a demo that I carried in my backpack at school. That's awesome.

Because I was like, I ordered it, you know, and it was awesome. So check that out. Great band, Richie's Guy. Great band. No disrespect intended, because they are on here again, which we want to. that to mean something, you know? Yeah. Piece by piece is one of the greatest bands of all time. Some would say better than the Rolling Stones.

Some would say better than the Rolling Stones. I think one of the most underrated bands in history, put on the We've Lost It All, Comp record. It's unbelievable. The intro, you'll be like, what does this band sound like? I don't understand. And then it kicks in and it's just hardcore, hardcore, hardcore, hardcore, hardcore, pit, pit, pit, pit, pit, pit, pit. The best lyrics, coolest vibe.

Peace by piece. Next up, mental, one of Boston's finest versus extortion. Australia's finest. So when we're talking about this era, I didn't know about extortion. Of course not. Mental? Mental were the Beatles for real. Like, every time they came to Chicago, it was the best.

show of the year. Every fucking time. They ran shit. There was nothing cooler. Everywhere. Everywhere. There was nothing cooler than their songwriting, the merch, the artwork. Fucking, like, I don't know. Locking out. Like, all that, like, everything about it was just, oh, that's the coolest thing in the world. I was so into locking out in Boston hardcore at the time. I thought I was going to go to school in Boston. just because you loved DFJ. I was like, I was like, yeah. I was like, well, obviously the scene rocks. Like, so that's cool.

I'll just go to Boston. Like, I really, truly planned on it. Then I didn't get into a single college. Oh, you applied to them? I applied to quite a few colleges for some reason. I never even bothered. I mean, it's mental. It's mental here, but I want to give extortioned their flowers because they are such an

incredible band. Krusty legends still rocking to this day. Aaron Osborne is in the band now. Aaron's go, what are you, Darren? Please, he's pissed. It's mental. Mental. Mental, another decade-defining band.

And their, them going away is still being mourned, you know? Dude, also, Planet Mental, fucking awesome record. Many tracks. Weird. Weird. When it came out, people were like, it was very different. It's awesome. I love that record.

I think Mike Sario's a big Planet Mental guy, if I'm not mistaken. This is mental. Yes. Country Mile. But I wanted Australian representation. Extortion is such a great band. And here we continue.

Okay. Tragedy versus 86 mentality. Listen. I was never like a big crust guy. Stadium crust. Oh, you're doing listen on behalf of 86 mentality? I love those. Oh, man.

It is tragedy. I don't think I can really argue. you that. You know what I mean? I love those seven inches. Terriboes unbelievable. Great, great, great band. Captured that time and 86 so well. Yeah. Holds up so well. It actually, I actually listened to it like last winter, which is very recent for something like that. You know, they were a brief, brief band. Yeah. I remember, God, I saw, um, Oh, I mentioned that I saw them and justice. Dead Stop also toured with 86 mentality.

Dead Stop and Rise of All played Chicago. Dead Stop played the 86 mentality intro just to do it. And the room went fucking insane. A very fond memory of mine, a Pulaski Park District in Chicago. That's awesome. All of that being said, I know tragedy is like the American Cross.

One of the greats. Yeah. Them and from Ashes Rise, who we'll talk about soon. crust hardcore pioneers legends and did the

Burning Spirit thing as good as the Burning Spirit bands so it's tragedy here fine listen they made it

you know yeah yeah yeah also I mean they had I think they legitimately had two seven inches and that was it yeah

and tragedy have fucking like eight LPs yeah and they're all good oh Yeah This is a tough one

Is it? Because it's not. American Nightmare versus First Blood. First Blood demo, dude. Did this is, you know what's funny about this? This is our first like era, like genre defining era defining matchup.

Yeah. Because First Blood was synonymous at this time with every other band we're talking about. That demo and the split. It's, I mean, it was like terror and piece by piece. continued with Carl singing but but like with an insanely hard

hate breed twist dude all the LP is wild I like I like songs on it for sure yeah it's wild it the the sampling on the demo all the rambo shit so it's like the

the I actually just got chills that that part is incredible I like I really do like first blood. A.N. I loved American Nightmare. Yeah.

Loved American Nightmare. Haven't listened to background music in a minute, but I mean... Still goes. Yeah. I know it does, you know? And I just think, man, they were very important to me. They were like headliners, too. Like legit...

Still are. You know? Mm-hmm. I think it's A.N. for sure. I completely agree. Good. I'm glad. I'm glad.

Here we go. Oh, no. Yeah, this is a tough one. This is a tough one for you, I feel. It's okay. Two bands you love, Rise and Fall versus the Killer. Now, any of my Chicago heads,

you'll notice a lack of Chicago hardcore bands and Chicago punk bands, but I think we're being fair because it would be a little to bow Chicago biased. So shout out, obviously, to punch of the face, wound up, 14 to fight the repos, sidewalk, plan of attack,

expired youth, all the bands who you might be like, what about, I know. But then it's like, all right, yeah, take out Iron Age and put plan of attack, you know? Exactly, exactly. It would be a little disingenuous. Exactly. So I don't want to do that.

I'm trying to be as objective as we can. The killer are, to me, the most important Chicago hardcore band that I lived through and experienced. I've been a champion of theirs on the show since the start. We are certified killers over here. I'll never forget. One of the first times I went to the old house in Van Nuys seeing the demo tape.

Just on the window cell, being like, huh, they know about the killer? Yeah, absolutely. Love the killer. There would be no harm's way without the killer. The most respect for that band. And they know it. rise and fall the hellmouth

7 inch into oblivion and circles I grew to really like that record what was the single between it was it clawing? Oh yeah dude I love the way he said that word

clawing it was like claw wing yeah it's just really there's something sometimes when the accent comes out I really connect with that even harder into oblivion if you guys haven't listen to Rise and Fall, into Oblivion. For me as a young person

getting more and more into hardcore was like, oh, there's hardcore in Europe. Oh, this exists there. Into oblivion from second one. Yeah. To the very, very end is a perfect fucking record. I cannot

give it enough praise. Like, I love that band. Got to see him, got to tour with him a couple times. One of the greatest group of guys I've ever met, still friends this day. I love this man. I love this man. You know. Me too. Saw them a lot, had a lot of merch. Yeah. The brown shirt with the gold. Come on. Goaded. Dude, every, man. I'm going the killer. Why are you doing this to me? Okay, call anyone not from

Chicago. I'd be happy to. I need the record to be shown that I'm picking the killer. And they're doing this just to be a little fucker. No, I'm not. I'm picking the the killer. You think better to be judged is a better or more impactful record than into oblivion? I think

I listen to it more. I think I listen to it more. I think not all who wonder are lost smokes everything. What sucks about this is when you call someone they're going to assume I'm going for the killer.

It's misrepresent. representation. This is tough because we pitted two of your favorite things against each other. Like truly two of my favorite bands. So like either way, I guess I'm happy, but I know you're doing this just to be a I think here's the thing. Realistically, I think anybody we call is saying Rise and Fall. Yeah.

Therefore, we'll skip the call. Okay. But I picked the killer. And on that note, our left side is complete. Our winners are. Converge, Bitter End. Trapped under ice, Shattered Realm.

Frempt it, carry on. Pulling teeth, Iron Age, no warning ceremony. Cold World, piece by piece. Mental, tragedy, American nightmare, and rise and fall. What a doozy, baby. A lot of great bands in the dust here.

Yeah. But now we're getting into like, every one of these could be day one of a fest and just smash. This fest that I just list. Yeah. Yeah. sold out in an hour

okay let's get to the right side here yeah who interesting oh first matchup is down to nothing versus wisdom and chains

two bands that their respective fan base would say are the band you know what I mean like people in Richmond they're going to say it's down to nothing

down to nothing were the kings of Richmond people in the state of Pennsylvania are going to say No, no, no. Wisdom and Chains is the band, you know? Yeah. Very interesting.

Tell you what, man. Down to Nothing had some of the craziest sets I've ever seen. Yes. The production is the same dude who did Blood for Blood on a lot of those records. So they sound exactly like the Blood for Blood Records. And that means they sound very good. Straight Edge. Not anymore.

Wisdom and Chains. This is a tough one. I don't really have a... I love Wisdom of Chains. I don't really have a dog in the fight. I think, I think, we're not talking impact. But DTN is like, festival headliner across around the world, probably. Interesting.

I love wisdom and chance. Again, toured with him without hearing a song. By the end of the tour, I knew every word to every song without ever listening to the studio recordings of them. That's unbelievable. But I think this is DTN. Okay. I think that's fair. I think just it is what it is. Okay.

Have Heart versus Stop and Think. I love Stop and Think. Both demos. Both demos. Love them. Have Heart. What's funny is in this era, when did things we carry come out? 2005, maybe.

Oh, is it that early? Five or six. I thought the seven inch was 2007. I thought. I think things we carry is six, probably. I remember listening to it while I was driving a car that I had it. Because isn't songs of scream at my son like 2008? Yeah, that makes sense.

Okay. I love stop and think. Have heart. It's half heart. Like they're just fucking... Drew 10,000 people in Worcester, Massachusetts. Exactly. At a regular ass show.

And it's funny because when they were, first around. I've told this on the show before. Like, they toured on the 7 inch and there were 7 people paid in Chicago. Seven. I mean, they're about 800 in chain reaction whenever they would play.

The cap is like 140. My point was, it's interesting that at first they weren't quite a national thing yet. But then immediately became the worldwide thing.

Yes. They were the first band. They played Burning Fight and they were getting ready to leave for like a world tour. Yeah. Like that big world tour, the last thing that they did before they like broke up, I think. And that was like, I didn't know hardcore bands could do that. I mean, I don't think anybody did. Yeah. They played like Africa. Yeah. You know, and it was like.

We talk about it extensively on our amazing episode from many years ago with Pat Flynn. Go back to it. It's very good. Stop and think. What an underwerex. rated band. Very underrated. Would have loved to have seen them go farther. Yeah. But again, that's kind of... This bracket's out of our hands.

Carrie made it not us, so... Yeah, Carrie our tormentor. It's half hard here. Yeah. Stop and think, great band. Go listen to both of them demos right now. It's on one record together called Both Demos. Up next, we got cursed versus Count Me Out. This is a really cool opposition of styles here.

I wonder, yeah, we should call like Foster or somebody like just to weigh in. This is certified freezing cold, Canadian dark, crusty HC versus Count Me Out, Capital HC. Pretty melodic. Pretty melodic, but very straight edge. Very straight edge. I like that. It's count me out. It's count me out.

It's count me out. I agree. 100%. I agree. I like curse. Yeah, come on, dude. Count me out was such a cool, kind of a flash in the pan band,

not in the derogatory sense, just like they weren't around that long. I never got to see him. Wish I did. Very cool band. It's definitely coming up. It's coming. All due respect to Kirst.

I hear that they were one of the first to really use, I mean, the Canadian, like, music grant system. Oh. It's such an insane thing to us. Americans. Yeah.

That Canada just wants art and wants to support art. I always heard that curse, like, got a ban or something. I don't know. This is all hearsay, but I wish we had them grants. I wish I was Canadian. Stout versus Dead Stop up next. Baltimore's finest versus one of Europe's finest ever. Again, though, Dead Stop wasn't around that long.

Right. Pretty good. But my God. What a sick band. Yeah. Belgium, man. They just... They get it.

They just had a thing. I love Belgium. Yeah, it's crazy. Stout, I mean, it's funny. Now, I think it's... I think my mind would say Stout. At the time when early 2000s, I would say Dead Stop. I think Stout's legend grows every day.

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. The mythology of Stout is backed up by... this insanely unique, aggressive, and shockingly, the band is like high IQ hard music. Baltimore, dude, gut instinct, next step up, stout, all these like dying fetus, you know? Yeah. Like this is, these are peers. And these are these like brilliant, secretly brilliant musicians other than dying fetus,

who's obviously brilliant. writing Hardcore in a way that I'm never heard outside of Baltimore Interesting It's got to be stout here I fully agree

Yeah Deadstop what a band Yeah It's stuff Yeah Sleep bits is one of the greatest Records ever written And that's a fact

Part of this interruption We hate to interrupt this fiery debate Surely that's happening You guys are all screaming at your car stereos and TVs or however the hell you watch us. I know, I get it. You're saying no modern life is war, and I'm saying no. But what I am saying is this episode is brought to you by Guilty Party, the greatest menswear store in North America.

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Comeback kid versus Ramallah. I think we're going to be at an impasse on this one. Big time. Because, because I love Ramallah, truthfully. But the demo and is it, turn it around? It was the first LP. And then a lot of people ride for the next one. the wake the dead i mean that was like kids in my high school were like wearing comeback kids shirts

and i seen them at fucking i seen them in justin beber shirts the week before you know right the way that the way they crossed over is truly insane to me it's romola no question yeah to me it's it's it's for what we're talking about we're not talking about preference for me i i think it has to be comeback in who the fuck do we call for this no one no one from the east no one east of chicago is allowed to weigh in on that. So what's the furthest? Do we know anybody in Seattle? Like, yeah.

I think that, I mean, how about, how about Aldo from Human Garbage? No, no, he's going to say Romala. I think you'd be surprised. Okay. Here we go. All right, everybody, we've got Aldo from Human Garbage here. The mayor of San Fernando Valley,

one of the greatest people to ever live. Although, we are tasking you with something very important. We are doing a bracket to crown the best 2000s hardcore band of all time. Okay. And we're stuck at an impasse on

Comeback Kid versus Ramallah. Now explain. That's a fucked up decision. Yeah. So I picked Ramala. Bo picked Comeback Kid. This isn't like who's most popular. Or preference. This isn't who this is just

the best band. And there you have it. And you and you were You were there. When I was a kid. We were there. Some of the craziest shows, yeah. Ramallah, I never got to experience that because I feel like that was like more east coasting. You know?

I don't think they ever came out to LA. They did. They played a matinee with righteous jams, I think Shattered Realm and... I must have been like 15. We were young. Yeah. I remember Jeff Gunnell's had a bunch of Cold's life stuff at the table. It was amazing.

Yeah, yeah. But all right. I saw come back here to show a lot of times, and they always swear it. insane shows. I agree. Thank you all, though. You're up. I appreciate you.

See ya. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I told you. I told you. I stand corrected, but I'm glad he said that. Listen. Dude, but a whimper and kill celebrity.

To this day, dude, I listen to him all the time. Ramallah legitimately has one of the heaviest riffs ever written. Which one? It, uh, Gagin. A, uh,

a, uh, a, N- which song is that? Is this the end? Yes. This the end?

Yeah. Unbelievable man. Love it so much. I understand comeback kid winning here. Yeah. Let's go to our next bracket. Okay. Terror versus betrayed.

Listen, you knew it was going to happen. This is double TXJ here. Yeah, I know. So. It is what it is. But Terra wins. Of course.

Betrayed is somehow one of the only melodic hardcore bands that, like, I really connected with growing up. Like, Gint, like, it was so straight edge. And it was so, it was the exact kind of angst I was feeling. Aram, amazing front man. Terror is Michael Jordan. I mean, truly. Like, I fear for any of my favorite bands. being put against terror because it's a tough it's a tough today for any ban against terror okay cruel

hand versus world collapse huh fascinating right that's a weird one uh i think it's got to be cruel hand on what basis on the basis of all the all the like the amount of music the impact the longevity of the band you know what i mean how how often are you putting on georgeland Doysland into the night versus prying eyes. But that's not what we're talking about. Is it not? I'm listening to Romala way more than I listen to Comeback, Kid. So what are we doing?

That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about the best one. It's not preference now. It's the best one. I think no, because if it was preference, if it was the best one ever, then we'd be talking about ruiner and modern life is war. And who wants to do that?

Wait, why? The hell are you talking about? What is happening on this show? To me, to me, this is world collapse. Nobody's going to agree with me. Nobody's going to. Like, I like World Collapse. I would probably sooner listen to World Collapse than a lot of these bands now.

But that's not. I tore with Cruelhan at their absolute peak, and it was amazing. Every night, stole the show, sold all the merch in the world, have the craziest sets I've ever seen. I love War Collaps so much. So do I, dude. But that's just, it's not what we're talking about. Is it not?

Is this not our show or we make the rules? You're off your rocker. Call anyone. I am firmly on this rocker right now. Rocking World Collabs 24-7. Call anyone. Everything is going. I love it.

I love it. Call anyone. Yeah. Call Andrew Baker. See what happens. Your world is getting collapsed. Motherfugger. All right, fine, it's cruel hand,

but it's world collapse, but it's cruel hand. And listen, I get it. Prying eyes changed everyone around me. Exactly. Cruelhan frustrated me until I toured with them and played with them a bunch. Because I saw them, they were playing

like, yeah, that's the first thing you think of, but I'm looking on stage and they're wearing like crumb sucker shirts. Right. And I'm, I'm ripping off crumb suckers at the same time. Being like,

and I'm like, what do they like? Who is this? And then I get to know that I'm like, and everything makes sense. I understand. This is, this obviously cruel hands should win here.

Okay, thank you. But I love world collapse. Only, only the heavens no. Unbelievable. If you guys haven't listened to that, Listen to that. Dorstein, Dorisline, into the night, dude. Great.

Masterpiece. Outbreak versus guns up. This is an awesome one because... This is 2000s personified. I was just thinking the other day about... And we talked about it a little bit with Skull, but outbreak, fucking ranchet, dude. They were... Because they, I think they had a video...

Oh, it's funny that we were just talking about Cruelhand, too. We had a video, or they had a video from one of the posy members. It was like 0.4 or 05 posy numbers. where they played that and like the whole room. The entire room is going insane. And I remember watching it on YouTube and like just being like,

oh, well, they are the biggest band. They, that outbreak and the Yor scum shirt legit ran the world until one day they just didn't anymore. Yeah. It was kind of the same for Gunza. Yeah. Yeah.

Guns up. It's funny. I remember hearing guns up and people being like, oh, they're ripping off entombed or they're ripping off this or they're doing no warning. Like they're doing this stuff. But meanwhile, like all of us in our band, we were doing the same exact thing with every other band that existed. You know what I mean? So it was like a, well, yeah. Yeah, we all.

Yeah, that's what we do. But I was 15, you know, so it was a little different. But yeah, I get what you mean. Was there a little resentment there? A little bit. Yeah. Just because, well, just because I... Because there's like...

Like, yet you are ripping off in tomb, yet you still sound like no warning. Yeah. Which is kind of, to me, in retrospect, pretty impressive. Awesome. At the time, I was like, that's not for me. I got you. I fully agree. It's outbreak.

I think it's guns up. Realistically. I do think better band. I know I'm crazy. I know. Yeah. This is, this is... I do think like a, like, like, just a better man.

Huh. I don't agree. But also, don't care to spend the time on it. I mean, like, this is not something I'm like, be like, come on, man. Yeah. You know?

So if you're saying an outbreak, I'm fine with that. I think it's, I think it's outbreak. And that, that, that just gives us the fun cruel hand versus outbreak matchup next round. Very true. So that's fun. That's fun.

And I will be objective. Okay. Well, this sucks for them. Yeah, it does. 100 demons versus Go it alone. It's obviously 100 demons. Yeah. Go it alone is a, I mean, the drummer of a lifeless plagued.

Absolute ripper, dude. Wow. Wow. Absolute ripper. And you can hear it because he does the b'b-de-b-b-b-all-the-time. And that's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. His thing. So the drumming on this is like,

unbelievable, sick band, melodic, H.C. Very of the time. And following band with fucking Black Breath. Yeah. You know, one or two of the guys. I mean, crazy. Very talented. Very talented.

Hunter Demons is the hardest band of all time. It's 100 demons, dude. Yeah. Calm on. I am anxiously awaiting the new music. Oh, my God. I am. I love how open they're being about it.

Yeah, we just recorded hell of songs. Me too. It's awesome. I've heard some stuff. Okay. I've heard some stuff. Very excited. One of the songs I put on and I just sat there thinking they've done it.

And what's funny too, man, is like, in the eyes of the Lord, kind of a different thing. Self-titled, the very different sounding records, you know. Both win here. Both, yeah, both would win. That's exactly my point. Fantastic. Oh. A battle of Boston once again.

Yeah. Righteous jams versus suicide file. That's a, this is a really tough one for me. This is right in my wheelhouse. This is righteous jams all day. I think so. But suicide file were, here's the thing about suicide file. I'm writing racist jams.

Okay. So here's the thing about suicide file. They were very political. Yeah, yeah. In a way that was like. ahead of their time because it was like it was like not cool and and but also not annoying not like preachy it made me go like well who is ashcroft i had to like look up these people you know what i mean really and like dude was a history teacher niraj is in hope con and this and he's a chicago

high IQ hardcore music high yeah very much so so all due respect to suicide file i love suicide file in the 2000s it was not what i was looking for at the time okay i've grown to appreciate appreciate it. Righteous jams was like, I lived and breathed for it. Righteous jams. Oh, I've been wanting to tell the story for a long time. They played the Knights of Columbus with Colin of Arabia. And they played their whole set. And they were like, all right, thanks. We were righteous jams. People wouldn't stop going side to side. And they were saying, one more song and they wouldn't stop. I remember he said, we don't know any more songs. Like, that was all of our songs.

And Crucial Kyle said, play one again, and they played Busted again. They just did it again. It was fucking awesome. Amazing. What a band. That's, there's a rage of discipline?

I will enter into. There's only so many bands that, that have not come back. You know, the list is very short. But I think I like, I like that when, bands don't come back.

Me, I mean, me too. It leaves, like, think about, we were just talking about straight ahead. I'm glad straight ahead is coming back. I think it's cool. Craig made me very excited about it. Yeah. But it still had that mystique. It had that thing of like, oh, yeah.

For 40 years. You know, that's fucking awesome. Righteous Champs comes back. So, Righteous Chams needs to wait another 30 years. Yeah, yeah. And we're good to go. Up next, Internal Affairs. Huh.

Versus lights out. You know what's funny? Even at the time when I was like peak youth crew, I would still say internal affairs. I always loved internal affairs. Lights out, RBS, O-G-R-B-S. Really? Great band.

Internal Affairs was a very early band for me that I fully connected to entirely. And always, visually, musically. Yeah. It felt like a... Because these were like the cool older guys here. Gotcha. You know? So I saw them and it was like, this is the, this is what I could be doing.

And it was internal affairs piece by piece. Yeah. Terror. Yeah. So hypnotizing to me. Yeah. Love it. Big part of why I'm still around is just watching bands like this at the time.

This is internal affairs. Yes, agreed. And it's another one of those bands that they got it all, man. Fast, aggressive, good lyrics, fun lyrics, sometimes funny lyrics. And like, hard. without being like beat downy. Yeah, another example of that. Yeah, very good.

Bain versus Desperate Measures. Interesting matchup. They just played recently. They did. Ryan went on stage. Did a quick, I think they did never enough time. I really liked Desperate Measures. I really liked the 7-inch.

I had a shirt. Good band. Young blood. Bain. Bain, I mean, Bain was probably the first. Hardcore CD I bought. Give Blood was probably the first one I bought. Freshman year.

You know what I mean? First band I ever toured with. First U.S. Tour I ever did with Bain. Dude, I think it's undeniably Bain. They were everyone. Yeah. Yeah. They were huge.

Yeah. The Count Me Out 7-inch. Give Blood. Come on. Or not caught me on. Can we start again? Sorry. Yeah.

Weird. I just, yeah. And I've told the story, like, one of them wearing a Metallica shirt in that CD jacket. Oh, yeah, made you feel a firm. I was like, oh, it's okay for me to, if like this huge hardcore band is blah, blah, blah. Dude, go to watch their Hellfest set.

Oh, yeah, it's insane. From like 2005 or whatever. And look, man, they didn't really stop running shit until they broke up. Right. Yeah, right. Yeah. That's Remedy's a great band.

Yeah. really like that they're on here. But it is Bain. Okay. It is Bane. Knuckle Duss versus Numb, an international act of war here. This is possibly the greatest United Kingdom hardcore band of all time.

Mm. Versus the best example of insanely hard Japanese hardcore. Knuckle dust, E standard. No shit. I didn't know that. No real shit, dude. Doing all that and E fucking standard. Yeah.

It's crazy. Man. I've seen Numb once. We played with him one time in Tokyo. Numb still kind of blows my mind. Yeah. Yeah. Like those are Mosh scientists.

I think Nucle Duss is so good. This is tough. This is really tough. I think I got to go Numb on this one. I'm with you. It's not easy. No. But dude,

you know, I didn't know about... Dude, Numb does these time signature things that... But I didn't... I didn't even know they existed at the time. I did know knuckle dust existed at the time. Well, you weren't Googling Japanese Mosh style. No.

I did. I remember. I watched that. But you're right. I wasn't going out of my way. You watched it, but you didn't study it. I didn't live it. Yeah.

Yeah. Me, when, like, I remember in 2004 or five, somebody being like, you know, Japan has breakdowns. Me being like, what is that from? What? And hearing numb and sand and all these other bands and just and being like, this is, this is everything I've ever wanted. But I do love knuckle dust. I think it's not.

Okay. I apologize to the United Kingdom, but I'm psyched knuckle dust is on here. Dude, the early, like, UK bund them out, beat down stuff, I could not believe as a young lad. I punished them all day on MySpace. And if Numb had my spaces, I would have been punishing them too. So got to be fair. Throwdown versus death before dishonor. When I first heard the song True Till Death by Death Before Disanour,

I of course assumed it was a straight-edge thing. It wasn't. But I assumed it was. I must have had me about 15 Dr. Peppers. Like, I could not stop listening to that song. iPod on repeat. Dude, friends family forever? Yeah.

Masterpiece. Holds up. It does hold up. What's the one after that? Does it count me in? Oh, I'm not sure. With the hand on it? So good.

Great fucking band. Held it down. Also a band that like brought a lot of people together. Very true. Still. They were on B9. And still rocking. Still rocking.

And they are Boston, you know? Yeah. Throwing out. And I'm from California. O.C. Throw down at one point in the mid-2000s. Yeah. Were the Cromax.

Yeah, this is a tough matchup, legitimately. Legitimately, very tough. I was a bigger throwdown fan for sure. I think they, Haymaker, yeah. Was like an overnight phenomenon. I remember I went to Best Buy to get it like the day it came out, you know. And it was available at Best Buy.

Yes. Yes. Crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, it was like, no joke. It had a satisfaction.

impact on hardcore immediately. It was like, oh, this is the next biggest band. I, yeah, I love it. I think I would pick ThroDown. I think that's my pick. Because. But when you look at the full scope of each band, Throaton immediately was doing Pantera and.

Well, not immediately. Immediately, I mean. Immediately, dude, the next one, What was the next one? Vendetta. Vendetta, but it's still like 10 years after beyond repair.

You know what I mean? Like, it's still like... Yeah, but it's O.Sept, you know? Yeah. They were, it was, Haymaker was a hit and they didn't do another Haymaker. But there's two LPs before Haymaker.

Yeah. Like you can't, you can't ignore them. Those are great records. Yeah. All right, it's sort of. All due respect to death before dishonor. What makes me sad, though, And I mean no disrespect to the guys in ThroDown and Beyond Repair out there is the branching out and multi-band thing happening.

I don't like when that happens. That's a 2020 decade issue. I know. I know. But this is. I agree with you. I just want to put it out there that it makes me sad when anybody does that. The morbid angel, I am morbid thing.

Yeah, that's awesome. It makes me sad. Don't do that. Be friends. Yeah. Make it work. but I also, when one is the full band doing the songs. Yeah.

What are you going to do? Blacklisted versus the Warriors. I like the Warriors. Warriors war as hell. Yeah. Front to back. Bang. Yeah, I was a fan.

They got out there too. Definitely. Broke out. Over. Over. Blacklisted. One of the greatest bands of this entire era. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. It's got to be blacklisted. It's got to be blacklisted. Blacklisted had an L.A., a Philly, and a Chicago record release. Never before done in 2008. Couldn't believe it. Couldn't believe it. I also didn't, I mean, I didn't get the second Warriors LP.

I didn't get it. Yeah. And I think, I know a lot of my peers felt the same. I think at one moment, warriors were like bound to be the biggest man. many moments blacklisted carried the decade. Yeah. Not that that's what we're talking about. No, but it is something to consider.

But I do think peace on earth, heavier than heaven, beat goes on. Yeah. The split. Oh, man, come on. Game over. From Ashes Rise versus Allegiance. This is again,

Brad fucking Boatwright, baby. Audio Seed From Ashes Rise Stadium crusts Pioneers Huge influence On one of my bands Unbelievable

Holds up More than you would ever imagine Allegiance RBS Many bangers Some a thousand times Pitted my little ass off From Ashes Rise

Just has stuck with me more and held up harder for longer. I'd go from Asher's Rise. It's fine with me. I have no dog in that fight. I wasn't into either. I could get you. And there we have it. Our right side round one.

Lord, only an hour and 19 minutes in. But this will go fast. Yeah, yeah. Right side round one. Down to nothing. Have heart. Count me out. Stout. Come back kid. Terror. Cruel hand.

Outbreak. Hundred demons. Righteous Jams. Internal Affairs. Bain. Numb. Throw down. Flackleston from ashes rise.

Let's kick it off. All right. Left side, round two. Yeah. Converge versus Bitter End. Converge. Of course. Come on.

All due respect. You're going against Titan. You're going against Goliath here. You're going against like the band. of all bad Dude, I mean Yeah Yeah

Everybody loves Converge Yeah Gene Jacket IPA drinking fucking Dorks Love Converge Spin kicking

Freaks Love Converge Circle Pitting Freaks Love Converge Yeah Skanking freaks Love Converge

Yeah It's Converge Cats and Dogs Love Converge Because they don't They don't know What he's saying either Traip

Or Ice versus Shattered drum. It's got to be TUI. It's TY. Yeah. We're moving now. We're cooking. Yeah, because, well, I mean, that just, it just makes sense. You know, we're talking.

It just is what it is. Yeah. This is where, this is now we're, this, this, this, it's like the John, the era defining bands are going to be very clear here. Yes. Agreed. Franted versus Carri-on, carry-on. I love Carri-on.

I love Frampton. It's Carri-on. Okay, good. I don't know enough about Frampton. argue, so I wouldn't be able to... I get it. Here's what might be a tough one. Pulling teeth versus Iron Age.

Yeah. I think for anyone from Texas, they're going to say that Iron Age should be winning the whole thing. I think right now, I think this is Iron Age. You do. Okay. Yeah. And I think if you went track, even just track for track objectively, Iron Age had no peers

that really sounded like that. That's very true. Neither does pulling teeth. Kind of, yeah, I was going to say, kind of not pulling teeth either. But I do think a lot of bands are still trying to sound like Iron Age.

Okay. That's my piece. All right. No warning versus ceremony. That's actually really difficult. That's a fun one. Because preferentially,

I just like No Warning's style of music more. Me too. And did at the time. Me too. Dude, this is a really cool two-side coin look at this decade. Yeah. Yeah. And it's really like no warning ran shit early half of the decade until somebody like ceremony came along.

Right. And dethrone them. Well, No Warning kind of dethroned themselves. themselves, which we love. We love. It's really like, man, it's tough. I think, I think, I think, I'm going no warning. Okay.

Wow, I was going to say, I was going to give it to ceremony, but I'll go with no warning. I'm like, kind of happy for either. Yeah. I love ceremony. Always have. You know what's funny, too, is the argument can be made that, like, well, after Roner Park, like, they kind of changed. They weren't as, like, hardcore.

Well, Suffer Survive is a departure as well, you know. True. So it's funny. They are an interesting matchup. And Rona Park was 20-tenths. Wow. So if we're looking 2000s in the context of 2000s. Okay.

I think it's no warning. Okay. Cold World versus piece by piece. I know what you're going to say. 100%. Yeah. I'm fine with that because I do, well, you know what's so funny, though, is I think

Oh, War Hungry was a band that Or this. Yeah, we fucked that up. God. That's just how it happens, guys. We just remember stuff in the moment. It's just how it works. But the LP came out in the 10th.

That's true. That's true. And a lot of the consideration here was first LP in the 2000s. Yeah, you're right. Good point. Oh, sorry, War Hungry. I think a lot of the people from like Northeastern Pennsylvania and in that area

they're all going to say that like cold cold world was the piece by piece or was the iron age of their area but but way bigger way more influential and like you many could say made way for title fight to come and and change music great point but piece by piece better than the rolling stones i think it would be unbelievably biased if piece by piece won this bracket okay But isn't that what this show's all. Fuck off. No, I think it's Cold World and I think that's objectively true. Sorry. You did it to yourself. I'm trying to think if I should challenge. I don't know who I would call, though.

Right. It is a good matchup, to be honest with you. That's a really fun matchup. Yeah. It's very time and place. Think about this, dude. Terror's first show, supporting piece by piece. Or second show or something.

Yeah. I love Peace Bar Peace so much. I had the 7th, right when it came out, you know. I remember I was, I was in. It's unbelievable. Awesome. But. All right.

I don't want to hear the bullshit, you know? Yeah. That's the thing. Yeah. Peace by peace over Cold World. I don't want to hear it. That's, I, I'm, I'm a peace by peace guy and it is what it is. But I'll give it up to Cold World.

Here's a fun one. Mental versus tragedy. Now, That's an interesting one. Now here I'll plant my flag here for tragedy. Really? Yeah. Challenge.

I'll do respect. I'll do respect. I'll do respect. All right. Call somebody who's, who cares about the thing that this show is about, which is hardcore, not fucking crust stadium anthemic nonsense. Hey, I'll let you pick. You'll let me pick?

Nobody, nobody in Hermesway. What about former members? The hell now. What's funny is caution. Call caution. Caution, yeah. Who, Hofacker, too, he would pick tragedy.

Who's a good... Who's an objective, bare-minded individual here? You think Bob? He responded, so he's like available. But I feel like he might be not cross-pilled, you know? I think he's a dynamic guy. He is. Should we call?

Let's call Bob. Call Bob. I'll call. Now remember, we're talking hardcore bands. That's the name of the bracket. That's a hardcore band. Okay. Just word it that way.

All right, Bob. We've got Bob Wilson here, FYA Fest. I'm sure most of us are on our way there as we speak. Bob, we've got a fucking doozy for you. All right. All right. We are crowning the best 2000s hardcore band of all time. Oh, shit.

We're at an impasse in, in the in the twilight of the second round and we're tasked you to break this tie between mental and tragedy

Jesus Christ I obviously love tragedy all right I get it but that's the fun of this show isn't it nice? Yeah I feel I can lay you down

I'm sorry you did what I thought You did what? Thank you, Bob. See you in a few hours. Bye. That's fun. That was good. Yeah. Mental. It's mental. Listen, I get it.

I don't think mental's winning. Don't get me wrong. But there... I think, dude, I just think tragedy could win a like best 2000s music bracket. Which if that's what we were doing, then it would be a different discussion. That's not what we're doing. It's not music, Lord. It's hard lore, baby. Here we go.

American Nightmare versus Rise and Fall. American Nightmare. There we go. There you go. I mean, it just is. You know what I mean? Yeah.

So our left side, round two winners. Converge, trapped under ice. Carry on. Iron Age. No warning. Cold World. Mental and American Nightmare. Wow.

That's a good. That's fun. I like it. All right. Right side. Round two. Here we go. to nothing versus have heart.

Similar. How interesting. Similar, you know, straight edge ideologies. Two bands I really agree with every time they say something. One band is screaming at their son. One band is screaming into the, into the sun over the James River. It's have heart here, right? It's half heart, yeah. Yep.

I mean, have heart is like the band of Boston for the last tower. over many years. You know what I mean? Despite the hiatus, you know. Oh, it changed nothing. Only made them more popular. We got Count Me Out versus Stout. It's fucking Stout.

Okay. Thank you. It's absolutely Stout. I would for sure pick Count Me Out just for the record, but I wasn't into Stout at the time, so I can't really. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Yeah. But I think the way that Stout has held up and the way the legend has grown every day. Dude, permanent sounds fucking awesome. That's great. But that, like, I also think that's like certified melodic HC. Yeah, but some of them get passes. Have Hart gets passed.

I don't know why. I agree. I don't know why. To this, like, I'll put on stout right now and be like, wow, this has not aged today. Gotcha. Comeback kid versus Terra. Sorry, comeback kid. I love you.

The people love you. It sounded great. it's terror. It's terror. It's terror. Cruel hand. This is a crazy one. If you know the lore, this is, this is inter,

these are kind of some of the same guys. Cruelhand versus outbreak. Portland, Maine versus Portland, Maine. I think because of all the considerations we had when we were talking about cruel hand versus world collapse, it has to be cruel hand. earlier I said outbreak ran shit until one day they didn't that next day yeah cruel hand did yeah it's cruel hand for sure 100 demons versus righteous jams

i think it's got to be demons it's got to be demons got it all due respect to the jane to the r jays I and righteous jams was like legitimately one of my favorite bands when they were around Like during this time period, I couldn't, as I've said, could not get enough of that Boston, DFJ locking out stuff. Yeah. 100 demons. Has anything held up as good, you know? Well, it's just so interesting, too, that like you get two flavors. Yeah.

And they're both, dude. You get fucking Coca-Cola and Dr. Pepper. Yes. Yeah. That is actually what it's like. It's crazy. Wow. Yeah, it's, it's...

Hunterdance, Internal Affairs versus Bain. Now, how objective can you be here, Colin? I wonder. I can't be. Yeah. It, like, yeah, Bain made a bigger impact. I know every lyric to every internal affairs song.

And I always will. This is, this, I have a clear bias here. I say internal affairs. Yeah. The best of best up, you know. What are you putting on between the two right now? Right now, internal affairs, for sure. I think we have our winner.

All right. I don't think it's true. But what does true mean? We do this every time we do these brackets where we like, we have, this is what we're talking about and then the whole widens. I'm always just talking about the best. What does that mean, Colin? means who's better? What does better mean?

Who's doper? Fuck it. What would you rather put on right now? I think that means something. Okay. Fair. Am I wrong? This is for you,

LA. I'm with it. And I was, that was, they was talking to me, dude. To you. And I didn't want to start again. No.

No. I want to move on. I'm, I'm good with it. No, I'm so sorry. Numb versus Throwdown here. Come on. Listen, if you've never heard NUM,

yeah, press play, they're going to blow your mind. And I'm... Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. It's Throwdown, of course. Numb is better.

No, I think... Put on the edges strong, the song. Unbelievable. Weird song. still strong? Well, some of them, I think. None was just talking about, I don't know what they're fucking. I don't know what they're saying.

Come on. Nobody we call is going to agree with me. So I'll go throw it on. I'll give it to you. Because you're wrong about it. Yes. Okay. None is so good.

Numb rocks. It's so good. I got a long sleeve when we played with them and it was on a crazy Japanese blank. And it fit like a small. Like it could never wear it. Might fit you now. burst out of that thing. It'll be fun.

All right. Blacklisted versus From Ash's Rise. Blacklisted. It has to be blacklisted. We're talking about 2000s hardcore. That's when For Matches Rise existed. This isn't about who's drawing more people at Chain Reaction. That's some of it what it's about.

That's best of. Who's better? Blacklisted. I don't know. Blacklisted. I think Blacklisted is incredible. You're going to pick... From Asher's Rise never put out a record

that their entire fan base turned on. Which record are you inferring? Anyone passed heavier than heaven. That doesn't matter. Which, as somebody who's done that, I know the pain. No warning did that. But from Ash's Rise doesn't.

No warning did that for a lot of people. Yeah. It's just not a consideration. That doesn't matter. Yeah, they're up against Cold World. You know? They're coming. coming up. We're not there yet. If this is, if this is, listen, if I'm filling out my bracket, yeah, from Asher's Rise is winning. Okay, we got to call somebody because that's crazy.

Who are we calling? Call somebody where from Ashes Rise from? I don't even know. PNW, Portland. Okay. So just nobody from there and nobody from Philly, obviously. Okay. You got to tell me who you're going to call because if you pick some, some music head. I won't. Yeah, I won't call a music head. I can't call my brother. What about Martine? That would be an interesting, because he'd be pretty objective about it. Yeah.

Okay, ladies and gentlemen, we've got Martin Stewart here. He's going to help us settle a quick debate. Oh, God, here we go. Yeah, it's time. Martin, we are in the middle of the best 2000s hardcore band of all time bracket. Oh, okay. We're at an impasse deep in round two. We're hoping you can settle it for us.

I hope so. Blacklisted. Versus from Ashes Rise. I mean, I love both of those bands a lot, but I'm going to stick to hardcore because to me from Ashes Rise is, you know, a little too crusty stadium crust. Are they not hardcore music? Martin? Stop it. Stop it.

You know, that's all subjective, but in my personal opinion, I can see Bo talking, but I can't hear anything you're saying. He's saying, stop it. No, he's saying, keep going, keep going. I personally wouldn't call them, you know, a hardcore band, but I love them just as much. But, yeah, I'm going blacklist. It's specifically because of We're Unstoppable. That record is, like, flawless front to back for me. Yeah.

I'm with you. All right. Thank you so much. Love you guys. Love you too. Bye-bye. Listen, I knew it was coming. I just want it from Asher's Rise.

Great band. Obviously Blacklist was going to win. You're the worst person I know, dude. Why? You drive me insane. Why? We're making a show, baby. I need to make a show.

It's a show. I'll tell you what. I'll listen to From Ash's Rise tonight on my drive. Okay. Dude, you're going to be like, what have I done. Uh-huh. You know, um,

Oppenheimer, you know that guy? You're going to feel a lot like him. Blacklisted wins. And there we have it. Our second round winners from the right side are have heart, stout, terror,

cruel hand, 100 demons, internal affairs, throw down and blacklisted. Oh. Okay. Now it's time for round three. It's getting wet and,

wild out here. And now we have this very first matchup in round three is finals worthy. Okay. Converge versus Trappender Ice. Yeah. Like that is legitimately really difficult. I think to to find a winner here, we must focus on the word hardcore. Converge is so much more than that. You're right. You're right. Like truly out of the box. One. One of one, original, dynamic, creative, one-of-a-kind band. Trappner Ice, God-tier, hardcore music. Amazing songwriting. Like, T-U-I songwriting is bizarre and catchy and cool,

which can also be said about Converge, ironically. But I fully agree with you. We're talking about hardcore. I don't think Kurt was ever getting up there thinking like, okay, what's going to make the kids spin kick? Where that's all TUA's thing. That's exactly right. So I think for the sake of this discussion,

and that's exactly how I would like to frame it, it should be TUI. 2000's hardcore music. Yes. Which converges much more than much more than TUI wins. Carry on versus Iron Age. Take a fucking guess, buddy. Yeah.

I mean, it is carry on. Yeah. And I think the impact of the. they made with a seven inch in an LP, impossible. You know? Really crazy. Impossible to do today. Really crazy.

Iron age? Great seven inch. Two great LPs. Great singles. Highly influential to the last 10 or 15 years. Yeah. That for sure. Carry on. Highly influential to the last 25 years.

Yes, exactly. Like all the, there's a lot of shit that we cut off here that is just like bad carry-on clones. And somehow that somehow Carillon made work and all these other bands could not. I think it is Carillon. Yeah. I mean, I know it's Carrey-on. Yeah, I don't really.

I'm not an Iron Age guy. I just didn't. It wasn't, I never got it. I got you. I was a big carry-on guy. Carry-on. It is decided. No warning versus Cold World.

This is a tough one to not have my bias. because I love No Warning. I like Cold World. I love No Warning. I think Cold World LP, I think if you go LP for LP, you know?

Yeah. Then it's, it is no warning. Okay, good. I agree with that. Like 7 inch, demo 7 inch LP. Demo 7 inch is where it's,

it's really tough. Because ice grills, cold world seven inch? Yeah. Unbelievable. Genuine classic. Changed, changes the game. No warning. When you factor in ill blood, it gets a lot harder.

I think I got to give it to no warning here. Okay. I'm happy to agree with that. Okay. For sure. There we go. You know, it's funny is Billy Graziotti recorded the Cold World LP dedicated to babies? Really?

Yeah. It's crazy. Very clean record. It's crazy. Mental versus American nightmare. So that's hard. I go in here. Just putting that out there.

I kind of think you have to. Oh, man. But then Planet Mental was so cool. And I didn't love down to our underground. You know, I didn't love that give up the ghost and on. stuff really. It's background music and the year one stuff. But then having that revelation the other day that A.N.

is just kind of dark floor punch. Pause this right now if you're listening. Put on the Ice Age comes or Ice Age cometh, whatever the A& song is, and then listen to changes by floor punch. It's the same thing. It's just the same thing, like kind of redone. But dude, what's crazy about mental is like nothing sounds like that.

Yeah, they try. In a crazy, in a crazy way, it's hardcore that you cannot replicate. And I think a lot of that is, is it Greg, the singer's name? Yeah. His voice. His voice is so unique. Yeah, unique for sure. DFJ is drumming.

Come on, dude. The greatest of all time. This was, this was like peak DFJ too, in my opinion. I think it's where he kind of figured out. I mean, I don't really know. I'd love to know his story. someday. I don't really know exactly how that, where that all came

about, but mental from the, and you know this seven inch on, I don't know. That's a tough one. I think going A.N. Makes more sense. Because I do think, yeah, I think so. I think so. Okay. That one

hurt. That was actually tough for me. That was tough. That was tough. So that means our round three winners are trapped under ice, carry on. No warning. an American nightmare. We're getting into like my favorite bands. Are we ready for right side, round three?

Have Heart versus Stout. Come on. Stout all day, baby. No, fucking right. Listen, I get it. We're going to give it to have heart here. Yeah, yeah. Shear impact, depth of discography.

It is what it is. Straight Edge. You know, love that. Groundbreaking band. Yeah. Could headline anywhere in the world today and it'll sell out. Yeah. Stout is just this mythical.

Yeah, I love it. I love the legend, you know, yeah. Have Heart wins. Okay. Oh, no, Stout lost to have heart. Yeah. Great job, Stout. Terror versus Cruel Hand.

That's terror. Of course. And I think singer of Cruelhand, who is now in terror, would agree. I think. 100%. 100%. You know. Terror makes it once again, 100 demons versus internal affairs.

Demons, baby. It's demons. It's demons. For sure. Yeah. This is both of my heart biases. Yeah. Split in half.

Connecticut and L.A. Just that I was Connecticut first. Connecticut takes it here. Throwdown versus blacklisted. I was a bigger throwdown fan because when blacklisted was around and really doing stuff, I was also touring and playing, touring with them. I'm going to say blacklisted. I would go blacklisted.

Yeah. I just think that's objectively true. All right. There we go. There we have it. That was fast. That was quick, yeah. Down to the wire here.

Our right side round three winners are have heart, terror, 100 demons, and blacklisted. Holy shit. All right, guys. It's time for the quarter. Quarter finals, Stephen do a crazy graphic here. Explosion Eagle, sirens, and Margaret from By-My Birdie, and from Grumpy Old Men. All right, left side quarter final, trapped under ice, versus carry on. So this is where the size of the catalog has to come into play.

longevity and depth must be a factor here and with that in mind it must be trapped under ice fully i fully agree and i love carry on both bands created so many clones trapped under ice's influence are now festival headliners yes carryons the influences are not on this bracket maybe that's maybe that's biased but i don't think it is there They're nowhere to be seen. Carry on. One of the greatest man's ever. One of the greatest man's ever.

Yeah, yeah, true. It must be TUI. Yep, agreed. No warning versus American nightmare. Now that's interesting. I'm going to go no warning. Me too. Perfect.

I did not want to argue about that one because I don't know why. I don't know why. I mean, I think you look at us now and what we like and we love Madball. You know? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'll tell you this. I know every word to ill blood.

Yeah. Front to back. I'm not smart enough to know every word on background music. Exactly. I do think I don't like a lot of music that sounds like A.N. No, neither do I. I love A.N. Yeah.

Kind of melodic. It's weird. Kind of melodic. But in a hard, aggressive way. Yeah. Yeah. But no warning was just capital H, capital C. Until they were weird singing some 41 produced band, which I still...

Incredible. So that means... Put on Scratch the Skin off of Suffer's Revive. Good, modernized. The breakdown in Scratch the Skin is one of the heaviest things that they ever did. It's incredible. All right. So that means our left side semifinals are trapped under ice versus.

is no warning. That's fun. And our right side quarterfinals, we've got Have Heart versus Terror. Hey. I think it depends on who you ask. Let me ask you this.

Which one of them didn't take a hiatus? Terror. Which one has their 12th LP on the way? Terror. Which one has 11 great LPs? Yeah, I just think like they never stopped. they never stopped.

They changed shit the second it came out, and they have continued to set the standard for what hardcore is to this day. They'll also support anybody. And they were kind of one of the first bands to do that too. To be like, oh, billing doesn't matter. Yeah, it doesn't matter. Oh, you're better than us? Cool.

Get in front of people. Yeah, we'll do it. Awesome. Yeah, it's, dude. Yes. Terra. Tevra. Have heart.

Great work. You made it so far. You could have gone to the finals and other circumstances. 100 demons versus blacklisted. Now, this is tough because I would say demons, but I know there are people who would say blacklisted. For sure. Of course there are. But they don't host this program. Just because we agree doesn't mean we're right, you know? No, but it's our show. You're right.

Okay. I'm trying to even think if calling anybody's even worth. it? I think it's sure, let's do it. James would say demons, I know. You know what I mean? Like I'm just trying to. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I'm sure there's, look, there, people are screaming at the phone saying blacklisted for sure. A hundred demons is the hardest hardcore band of all time. Does that mean nothing? All right. Does that not mean they're one of the best? I just wanted, I want the discussion to happen. So I'm, we did that. So I'm fine. Because I just think blacklisted's importance kind of it can't be overstated. Cannot be downplayed.

Yeah. Unbelievably important band. Like I said, heavier than heaven, an unmastered version of the album leaked on the internet. Yeah. And people loved it so much that they pre-ordered every copy of the record out of like spite to this leak. They were like, damn, this unmatched, unfinished thing is unbelievable. let's buy every copy. The motherfucker didn't wear...

George did not wear shoes for 10 years. Jumping around, nails, spit, everything on there. Fearless. Eye for an eye. Unbelievable.

You will never roams the homes that I've roamed. I'm sorry. I don't know. That's the tongue twister. Great. George, one of the greatest lyricists and frontmen of the decade. 100 demons.

one of the hardest the hardest hardcore band are yeah certified yeah all right demons that seems wrong and you know this is all just seating you know true that is true like if have heart was somewhere else they'd probably be here right here if have heart was on the other side they could be in the finals blacklisted versus demons is honestly really difficult that's a very difficult one yeah that's fun it's a fun show we should call some people just to see what they say yeah what's that all right we're here with a with a pitch black car that contains

Josiah Hofflinger from Criminal Instinct Josiah, we're in the middle of our best 2000s hardcore band bracket and we're you know we already have our answer here but we want to get some second opinions on this for fun okay we are

in the semi-finals here, quarterfinals here and one of the matchups is 100 demons versus blacklisted that's not even that's 100 There we go. We're just getting some second and third and fourth opinions here. We made the bracket.

100 demons already won this. They already won, but we wanted to, we just wanted to get some words on it. That's not even close. There we go. You had it. All right. Thank you so much. Have a great day.

Yeah, please, bro. See you. Oh, dude. Jamie Morgan. He's going to pick blacklisted. I don't know. That's good. Oh, sure.

All right. Let's get some perspective. Here? Dude, demons! He's in Chicago right now. You're calling him here. What's up? How you doing?

Are you camera ready? All right, Jamie Morgan here. Jamie Morgan here. Jamie, we're in the middle of our 2000s hardcore band bracket. All right. We're in the quarter finals here. Okay. We already have our answer here, but we just want some different perspectives on this next matchup.

All right, all right. 100 demons versus blacklisted. listed. I'm going 100 demons. Wow. Okay. P-A-H-C going 100 D's. But I fuck with blacklisted heavily. Yeah. And I love the fucking weird strings one. You know I love that.

You do? I do that. The violin part is so good. The whole album's unbelievable and the world hated on it because it's a sick, sick world we live in. That's exactly what I wanted to hear. Yeah. But both unbelievable bands, 100 demons is just, you know, when you think about hard shit, it's kind of like the definition. So what can you do? How can you beat it? What can you do?

You can't beat them in physical combat. That's for damn sure. 100% true. So we have to give in. We have to give in. Thank you, Jamie. Be so. Have a great day.

Now, I like what he said. I like that he defended the record. Should we get one more? Let's get one more. If we go three for three, that's... Let's call Chris. I'll call him. I'll call him.

He's always doing shit, too. He might be busy. Oh, yes. Are you camera ready? We have a question for you. I'm not camera ready, but... I think you look beautiful. Let me see.

Let's check my hair out. Put him in front of the microphone. All right. Chris Mills here, everybody. So handsome. So handsome. Chris, we are doing a bracket for the best.

2000s hardcore band. So 2000 to 2010. We are in the quarterfinals at this matchup and we're just getting opinions. We just want an opinion. We kind of already have our answer for this, but we want to know what you think of this matchup, and I know you're a fan of both bands.

All right. We got 100 demons, 100 of them, versus blacklisted. Yeah. That's a really hard one. But 100 demons. Okay. Both LPs incredible front to back.

Not one skip. Not one skip on either record. And honestly, they just like sonically changed the game. I mean, I think about like that second L, that second hundred demons LB and it was like maybe one of the best sounding

heavy hardcore records I had heard. Yeah. At that time. Yeah. Yeah. The self-time is unbelievable. Dude, I also got hit real quick. I got hit with A.N.

versus mental earlier, and it like broke my brain. Damn, dude. Broke my brain. Very sentimental bands to us. Fully agree. We went with A.N. We went with A.N. Yeah.

Yeah. I would probably, I'd probably do the same, honestly. Just given like, just given when I first heard American I'd marry and the trajectory that it kind of like set me on. Exactly. All right. Perfect answers, Christopher. Thank you so much.

Thank you, Chris. All right, guys. See you soon. Good night. Bye. So thank you. So thank you, Chris. That was all we needed to hear.

It's three for three for 100 D's. There you go. 100 demons goes all the way. There you go. That means our left side semifinal is now Oh no. Trapped under ice versus no warning.

And then the right side semifinal is terror versus 100 demons. We can't do it to Scott. Not again. Left side. Trappner Ice versus no warning Trappingter Ice wins

Yeah Yeah You know Wait just did more Did more Went out on top Came back on top And also kind of

Yeah And also kind of like Spawned Angel Dust Spond turnstile You know what I mean Like Spawned the thing That we're all chasing

Everybody's chasing now TUI is still like Putting that on now, I hear something, some new detail and nuance that I think like how did they know to do that? Yeah. Yeah, I think that is just objectively true.

Trappenter Ice is going to the finals. Now. Right side semi-final is terror versus 100 demons. Hey. I think, I think I guess Deans didn't really take a hiatus. They just didn't put out in a music. They would play.

Yeah. But I still think I just, it has to be terror. It has to be. Just some sheer consistency. Unapologetically, unapologetically hardcore, you know? Yeah. No, there's no other like kind of metallic. Nope, just hardcore men.

No. Except for the damn ashamed. Pretty, pretty, pretty. That's true. That's true. But aside from that, capital H-A-R-D-C-L-R-E. Terror advances to the finals. Wow.

And there we have it. The destined matchup. What I kind of knew it would be all along. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Trapped Under Ice versus Terror. You know who I think we should call about this? James Vitalo. Let's get our, let's do our reason first here.

Trapped under ice. Three LPs, a perfect 7-inch, a perfect demo. Terror, a perfect demo, a perfect 10-inch, yeah, yeah, yeah. Perfect split, and they're about to put out their 12th LP. Well, and one with the underdogs is perfect, too. Oh, no, I mean, I think they're all unbelievable. And then also just like the resurgence with keepers of the faith, you know?

Traffender ice. Genuine sea change. Towards the end of the decade. Yeah. One could say their efforts really affected the 2010s more than the 2000s. I would say so. But it brought what was happening in the 2000s to a screeching halt. After Sanofuri 2008, things were different.

Yeah, but the life and death demo. Like the second I heard that, it was just like, oh, this is. And then finding out, too, that it was. The guy from Carion. The guy from Carion. And the guy from Buried Alive. Yeah. You know what I mean?

And all the other... TY caused an overnight sea change in hardcore as a whole. Terror with a demo changed what the words California hardcore meant. You know? Wow. These are two monumental, groundbreaking bands. my gut is terror. I agree.

That is, when we decided to do this list, that was my pick. It kind of doesn't matter who they were seated against either. It just kind of doesn't matter. If it was half-heart, the answer would be even faster. If it was, who else could have made it to the end here, you know? Yeah. A.N. Terror wins. No warning. Terror wins.

Yeah. World collapse? Close, but terror wins. Yeah, I just, I don't, I just, I, that feels right. They're the band. Yeah. I think if this conversation, if this was like 2000 to 2005, and then 2005 to 2010, this would be a little harder.

Okay. But overall, terror has never stopped for a second. When did Secrets of the World and Big Kiss Goodnight come out? Secrets of the World is 9. Okay. And then Big Kiss Good Night was 11? Yeah, that sounds about right. Okay.

So that's the thing. Big Kiss Good Night. And then they were like, hey, we've got all these other bands now. We're going to take a break. Yeah, I think considering that too, you kind of can't count Big Kiss Good Night, kind of. Yeah. It must be terror. It must be terror.

It do be terror. It do be terror. terror. Do we even bother calling? I would, it's funny. Vitalo, I would love to know his opinion on that. Let me call James. Let's get James. I have a fun idea. Okay. Let me see if I can pull this off.

Okay. I'm going to call Justice and then I'm going to call Scott. I want to hear what Justice has to say about terror. I want to hear what Scott has to say about Trapp and Dr. You're a producer. You know, you're a genius. Let's see if we can make this happen. Oh, Vitalis calling me. This will be fun. Hey. What do you fucking got?

All right. So we've got James Vitalo here. And Jake Lonsbury is there as well. He's calling for the first time this episode. James, I haven't seen you in so, so long. Hey, he's going to see you, bud. We're in the finals now. Who's that?

We got a squad right now. Is that Rick? Big Rick, Sam? That's what's up. All right. Give him the question. All right. We're in the finals.

If that lights out versus Ned until I'm out. It's not. You're going to be in, though. Because we're in the final. And before I talk to those bands, I want to get your thoughts on terror versus trapped under ICE. Bias. It was that awesome? Yeah.

It's boys. It's the finals. I'm holding my rib in extreme pain right now because I've seen Trapped Under Ice in L.A. a few weeks ago. Terror is one of the most consistent. hardcore bands ever. I gotta say terror, but I love Trapped Under Rice so much. Trapped Under Rice literally changed

hardcore, the trajectory. From Amazing Corps to what it is now, they deserve so much credit and respect, and they're fucking incredible. Having said that, I think that terror is maybe the most consistent hardcore band ever. And anyone else being in the top of this list is a

tragedy. I agree. I've got Scott Vogel calling me as we speak. Thank you, James. Tell him I said, hey, tell him I said, hey, we'll do. We'll do. Thank you. Scott Vogel. I need you to weigh in on something for me. Does this happen to have to do with hardcore?

It does. It's fun. It's a really fun thing. Okay. Here we go. All right. We have terror vocalist Scott Vogel here. Scott, we're in the middle of our best hardcore band. of the 2000s bracket. We're at the end. We're at the very end.

The finals. Oh, no. The finals are terror and trapped under ice. Wow. And I thought it would be fun for to hear your thoughts on trapped under ice. As well as justice. Yeah. Oh, man.

You know what's funny? Right when you were talking about this, I got a text from Patrick Kitzel, who is like the reason I found Trapped Under Ice and many other people. He just wrote me again. It's a busky Kitzel group text. But my thoughts on Trapped Under Ice,

man, they should win. Give it to them. Perfect live band. So much personality, unique style. All the records are great. Their demo is great. And terror in the,

I would say about 2009-ish to 2012 we toured with them so much so we got really close with them as people and they're just amazing like just amazing but I do

I do want to say even being number two is pretty fucking awesome so it's pretty cool to hear terror even in the running for this stuff what else can I say about TUI what did I forget

anything you want anything you've ever thought about them anything you've ever wanted to say. What a bunch of fucking maniacs, too. What a bunch of maniacs. Just the way a hardcore band's supposed to be. Couldn't agree more. Thank you, Scott.

We may be calling you back in a few minutes here. All right. Have a good one. You too. Now, I'm predicting. Justice says, give it to terror. Vitalo calling me again. Hang on.

Hey. It's not really a fair question. Well, here's the thing. If it was 2000 to 2010, I'd say terror. Yeah. 2010 and on, 2010 and 2020 would be trapped under rice. Like, you're asking me to, hold on,

I'm getting the heat off. Like, you're asking me to pick between a band that I grew up listening to since I was 15 and a band that I met when I was, 20. Like, it does it. I resent the question. You can't.

You have to. No, you answered it. You answered it. Whether you resented or not, the 2000s, 2000 to 2010, who is the best band from that era? Traffernice wasn't fully formed. They had a couple years. Therefore, I get it. What you guys are doing is great for hardcore music, but this is the bad question.

No, the first half of your sentence was exactly the point. Who else is on there? You'll see. We'll send you the worst. I can't. I can't you work two and a half hours in. I can't use air time on this. All right.

I used to play of wolves. Oh, yeah. I'll be there. All right. See you there. See you. Later, bye. Peace.

Oh, he can't hear me. Just screamed in your ears. We have Justice Tripp here. Trapping her ice, Angel Des, hardcore. Justice, we're in the. the middle of crowning a winner for the best 2000s hardcore band of all time.

Oh man. And we're down to the finals. The finals are terror and trapped under ice. And I wanted, I just got some words from Scott about TUI and I wanted to get some words from you about terror. Come on.

Talk about terror to me. It's a joke. They're Michael Jordan. Never seen terror. play a badge. Our name was put into that conversation. You know, that means a lot to me. But, yeah, I mean, I figured you guys probably on the same page, right?

That's the band. Yeah. Yes. But as the finalist, we wanted to, you know, give you the time. Yeah. And I wanted to get your thoughts as the co-finalist of who is the greatest.

Just want to throw this out there, because I'm sure they were into discussion, but just what I, I think my favorite hardcore band of my lifetime is criminal instinct. Pretty flawless discography. I would say 2010's

band. Okay, we're talking more specifically just the first. The aughts. 10 years, yeah, yeah. I mean, again, just that's my favorite band, but your favorite and the greatest are different conversations.

It's like, is Forrest Gump, my favorite movie, no. Is it the greatest movie? Yes. Yeah. It's like there's no conversation about what hardcore band is greater than terror. It's just like every band that you love the most growing up, you find out that terror holds has, it's just that. And it's authentic and it's lasted a long time. It's just like, again, they've been the heavyweight champs for as long as I've been really active and

hardcore music and I don't think it's ever going to stop. Like, I just think they keep getting cooler somehow. And that's your answer. That's the winner. I don't even, I don't know how you got like a, you're doing like a vote or something or I don't know what the deal is, but I'm telling you what the fucking answer is. It's there. It's just it.

There you go. There you have it. He said it. And that's it. Thank you. Have a great day. Love you, bud. Love you too.

Isn't that beautiful? Couldn't have said it better myself. One of the finalists said that the other finalists is the winner. And so did the other one. And so to the other one, yeah. I think it's terror. And I think we are, I just think it makes all the sense.

Our winner is terror. It's beautiful. The best 2000s hardcore band. Terror. Wow. Who can argue that? No one. And you shouldn't.

And you shouldn't. So go through the Discog today. There's so much gold in there for you to discover and for you to enjoy. And listen to all. 64 of these bands and all the 64 that we forgot. Put the war hungry he'll be on. You're going to love it.

Yep. But Terror and Trappner Ice, our finalist today, unbelievable, game-changing groundbreaking bands. Congrats to every band for being on here. Congrats to Terror, the winner. Best 2000s hardcore band of all time.

What a better way to ring in 2026, you know? Yeah. We'll see you all at FYA this weekend. You can tell us all about it, who we missed, and how mad you are. Thank you all for watching. We love you so much.

Bye. This episode is brought to you by Mad Vintage.