HardLore - The Heaviest Band of All Time (Official Tournament)

Episode Date: May 16, 2024

HardLore Presents our official tournament bracket to determine the heaviest band OF ALL TIME. We methodically argued to find one winner amongst the following bands: Obituary, Slayer, Napalm Death, Bolt Thrower, Sleep, Crowbar, All Out War, Neurosis, Metallica, Black Sabbath, Suffocation, Suffocation, Cannibal Corpse, Conan, Dying Fetus, Disembodied, Celtic Frost, Decapitated, Demillich, Warning, Triptykon, Godflesh, Hatebreed, Candlemass, Morbid Angel, Xibalba, Pantera, Sepultura, Down, Converge, Deicide, and Type O Negative. HardLore is now on Patreon! Join now to watch every single weekly episode early and ad-free, alongside exclusive monthly episodes: https://patreon.com/hardlorepod HardLore Official Website/HardLore Records store: https://hardlorepod.com Join the HARDLORE DISCORD: https://discord.gg/jA9rppggef This episode is brought to you by EXPLODING KITTENS! Get 25% off (!!!) any Exploding Kittens game with code HARDLORE! https://www.explodingkittens.com Get 20% OFF @manscaped + Free Shipping with promo code HARDLORE at MANSCAPED.com! #ad #manscapedpod FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/hardlorepod/ TWITTER | https://twitter.com/hardlorepod SPOTIFY | https://spoti.fi/3J1GIrp APPLE | https://apple.co/3IKBss2 FOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/colinyovng/ TWITTER | https://www.twitter.com/ColinYovng FOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/bosxe/ TWITTER | https://www.twitter.com/bosxe Check out our merch at https://knotfest.com/store/?view=hardlore Find all of our videos at https://knot1.co/3vWXsbx TIMESTAMPS: 00:00:00 - Start 00:00:50 - Introduction 00:04:21 - Crowbar Vs All Out War 00:05:57 - Neurosis Vs Metallica 00:09:31 - Black Sabbath vs Meshuggah 00:12:31 - Suffocation vs Cannibal Corpse 00:14:13 - Conan vs Dying Fetus 00:15:06 - Celctic Frost vs Disembodied 00:17:09 - Decapitated vs Demilich 00:18:09 - Warning vs Triptykon 00:22:00 - Godflesh Vs Hatebreed 00:22:48 - The first lifeline used 00:23:38 - Candle Mass vs Mordbid Angel 00:24:35 - Xibalba vs Pantera 00:26:26 - Sepultura vs Down 00:29:28 - Converge vs Deicide 00:32:39 - Type O vs Sleep 00:35:01 - Bolt Thrower Vs Napalm Death 00:39:27 - Slayer Vs Obituary 00:41:12 - First Round Wrap up 00:41:37 - Ad Break 00:43:46 - Start of the Second Round 00:43:53 - Crowbar vs Metallica 00:45:34 - Black Sabbath Vs Cannibal Corpse 00:46:28 - Dying Fetus Vs Celctic Frost 00:48:49 - Demilich Vs Triptykon 00:50:44 - Left Side Quarter Final Review 00:51:02 - Second Round Right Side 00:51:06 - Hatebreed Vs Morbid Angel 00:53:24 - The Second Life Line used 00:54:22 - Pantera Vs Sepultura 00:56:43 - Deicide Vs Type O 00:59:25 - A third lifeline has hit the tower 01:00:37 - Fourth Lifeline Used 01:03:03 - The tie breaker.... 01:04:47 - Bolt Thrower Vs Obituary 01:07:08 - Quarter Final Match Ups 01:07:15 - Crowbar Vs Canibal Corpse 01:08:10 - Celctic Frost Vs Demilich 01:09:08 - Semi Final Left Side 01:09:18 - Morbid Angel Vs Sepultura 01:13:13 - Deicide vs Obituary 01:15:07 - Semi Finals Match up preview 01:18:27 - The final lifeline... 01:22:56 - The Finals...   HardLore: A Knotfest Series, Fueled by Monster Energy Edited by Steven Grise • Title sequence by Nicholas Marzluf Join the HARDLORE PATREON to watch every single weekly episode early and ad-free, alongside exclusive monthly episodes. Join the HARDLORE DISCORD for community discussions and to participate in our future Q&A episodes. FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER, SPOTIFY, APPLE FOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAM FOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER   For sponsorship opportunities, email us! [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Subscribe to the all-new hardlore Patreon now for early ad-free access to every episode and an exclusive episode every month. No, this next one is going to break your brain in half. This is easy. We're going to argue. There's no way D.S.I. It is heavier than typo. Are you serious? Heavier.

What are you saying? World coming down? Yes. You're thinking. You're too emotional here, dude. This is science and facts and logic. We are here to make history today. Hello, welcome to the official hard lore stories from tour.

Bracket tournament to determine the heaviest band of all time. Let's get into that right away. What are we considering heaviest band? Like, what determines heavy versus what's the other big word? So heavy versus hard is a big topic here. You're going to hear a lot. hard and heavy are very two different things. How are they different? You ask. You tell me. You'll have to listen. You know it when you hear it is how I describe it. We were talking about it a little bit before we started recording, but there are matchups on this where there are bands that have to be in both discussions. And you'll know it when we say them. Yes. And that'll be the determination which eliminates some of them. It's like, no, they're harder than they are heavy. So they're eliminated. Yeah. Is it a mutually exclusive term? Like are all heavy.

bands hard and all are all hard. You can be both. You can be both. But you're going to be one more than the other. Especially when paired up. There's one band on here that I think is equal and we'll get to it. And I'm excited. I can't wait to talk about it. I'm excited to get to it. The bands that we have selected and the matchups are random. They were randomized by our graphic designer carry. So if there's a cruel matchup, which there are. Blaine Carrie. Carry. Carrie, you're cruel. for this one. The bands that we have selected, these were hands selected by Hardlore.

So that part, we are responsible for. Yes, of course. The contenders for the heaviest band of all time are Crowbar, All Out War, Neurosis, Metallica, Musuga, Black Sabbath, suffocation, Cannibal Corpse, Conan, dying fetus, disembodied, Celtic Frost,

decapitated, Demulik, warning, Trypticon, Godflesh, hate breed, candle mass, morbid angel, Shabalba, Pantera, Sepulura, down,

converge, deicide, typo negative, sleep, bolt thrower, napalm death, slayer, and obituary.

Holy shit. So it's every band that you like. It's every band I like, and these are the heaviest bands of all time. Yeah. I'm also talking to the listener. It's like, hey, your favorite bands of all time we're talking about right now. If you like heavy music, if someone came up to you on the stream,

it was like, hey, name a couple of heavy bands. You're going to say, you're going to say, crowbar, all out war, neurosis, Metallica, musuga. Yeah. This is, I mean, this is the, this is the greatest playlist of all time for me. Oh, already. Easily. And there's a couple on here I've never heard in my life that you're going to talk to me about.

And I'm sure other people are going to say the same thing. I love it. Hope. Let's do, should we do like top left, top right, bottom left, bottom right? No, I think we'll do left side. Left side. Get that done. Left left first round, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll just get down to this. You see this bracket below you if you're watching. If you're listening, I'm so sorry for what you're going to go through. Just imagine what you're seeing. It's incredible. So this first matchup is, is perfect is what we were talking about.

Yes. This is the first matchup is Crowbar versus All Out War. All Out War really one of two or three hardcore bands on this whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think it just in the scope of hardcore, this is probably the heaviest man. Yes. But sadly, they're up against the Wayne Gretzky of this shit.

They're up against Crowbar. They're up against the heaviest band. Like the band that if you asked me to name a heavy band, that's the first one that comes to mine. You know, this is a tough matchup for all at war. But sadly, I think we've got to go crowbar. I would agree. And this is a good example, like I said, of Crowbar have pretty heavy songs. There is, you have to factor in emotional weight.

Dude. To which crowbar has physical weight. like you wouldn't believe emotional weight like you wouldn't believe tone weight and tonal weight like you wouldn't believe and just riff weight

and all at war you're gonna hear about the downfall of man in ways that you've never heard about it but in terms of sheer heft we got to go crowbar first round all at war truly this nomination is enough

you're one of three hardcore bands on here thank you for your contributions to music crowbar wins. When we do hardest bands, they're on there. They'll be back. They'll,

you know, they're one of the few that are like, they're both, no problem. Yeah. All right. So,

crowbar. This next matchup, Beau. Yeah. Neurosus versus Metallica. Now, you know me. Okay.

I do. And listen. But, dude, I... Hey, in the words of James Hadfield, brother,

don't tread on me right now, okay? Because, neurosis is heavy. Metallica, As we said when we were deciding the list, determined what heavy was for a decade.

For better or for worse. Yeah, but here's the thing. If that is the, if that's the criteria here, who's beating Black Sabbath? Which is why that's going to be a really tough matchup. And that's, here's the discussion.

I'll tell you one thing, it's not going to be neurosis. Neurosis ain't beaten Black Sabbath. Neurosis ain't beaten Crowbar. No. But here's the thing. I think the doorway, riff alone is heavier than any Metallica part. Which is fine, and I'll concede,

I will concede that Metallica is not the heaviest band on this list. I will concede that Metallica will lose. Yes. But you won't concede them losing to neurosis. You won't accept that. There's no way that the thing that should not be and sad but true and wherever I may roam, those...

You immediately come out of the gate with, oh, sad but true is way heavier than neurosis. is what makes this show work. Yes, of course. That's what sets us apart. Is that I want to tell you you're out of your damn mind. Yeah, I'm sure your brother is like shaking his head right now. I'm shaking my head.

But no, I truly think that because look, if you're going to go the route of like, well, yeah, but that's just because of time and place, well, then Black Sabbath pales in actual heaviness to some of these bands because you have to put yourself in the 60s. To all of them. That's what I'm saying, right? Like the riffs are crazy, and if you played it through modern high-gain amps and like blah, blah, blah, blah. But at the time when you realize what they're working with and how they are the first ones to kind of do this or that, then you go, okay, yeah, that changes the discussion.

But even by that criteria, Metallica still beats a lot of these bands. A lot of. But I could argue they're harder than they are heavy. Here's the other thing. And I know you don't like when I go this route, but. they are the number one most selling heavy metal band of all time. And they're called a heavy metal band. This is the heaviest one, though.

This is not, we're not, this is the hard lore. I'm not saying that, Colin. What I'm saying is, Neurosus ain't called the heaviest band of all time. You know what I'm saying? I would call them the heavier band, the Metallica easily, but I'm going to go with, I think you're going to be conceding to me a lot in the future here.

I think so too. Look, the next round for Metallica is looking grim. I'm just being honest. Okay. I'm not. We'll give it to Metallica. Thank you. We'll give it to Metallica.

I think, you know, neurosis has much, even Metallica's ballads are heavy. Absolutely. Whereas, I mean, neurosis's ballads will fuck you up. But very, that's a very,

that's actually a better point than any other thing we've said so far. But really think about 1984 and for whom the belt holds and like that riff. I understand factoring in influence here. But we, there has to be a line. Okay.

And I think we're about to get to that line. Mushugah versus Black Sabbath is the third. This is fucked. Is the third matchup. Listen, this doesn't happen without Black Sabbath. This podcast, this conversation, this bracket, these bands don't happen without Black Sabbath. The computer-like time signatures that Mishuga uses doesn't start with Tony Ionis. Without.

Da-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na- You know he's missing his part of his fingers, and that attributes to why he played what he did. Really? He plays with a prosthetic on his picking hand. So he plays left-handed. He worked at a metal-pressing factory. Right, and that's, yes. And he pressed off part of his fingers, and he plays with prosthetics on his...

Well, is that why they tune down? where they were the first band to tune down for the first time? I think he just thought it sounded good, but it had to do with... I thought there was a technical reason behind that. Like the string... The string gauge. Tension was too...

Interesting. That would make sense to me. But like, think about what we're talking about right now, and then what most of the bands on this list do is they detuning their guitars. Because of Blacks out. Because someone did it and went, oh, shit. And that's why if, like,

I'm giving you shit about influence, but it feels like a crime to put some bands over Black Sabbath. But we have to be. Mishug is pretty fucking heavy. But one could say pretty hard too. Because again, think about Black Sabbath have ballads. They have pretty songs. Yeah.

Track for track, Mishug is probably a heavier band, though. You know? Probably. And I do think Black Sabbath defined this whole shit. Yeah. You have to give them that. We're going.

We're going scientific. You're going to say Mushuga over Black Sabbath? I don't, listen, I don't want to. Sabah's gonna, Sabah's blow easy. I don't want to do it, but I'm going science here. I don't, I kind of. And either way, Musugga's losing the next round. Whoever is in the next round,

next round is losing the next round from this bracket. Let's be real here. I think that, oh, fuck, this sucks. This is hard. This is the best episode ever. I was like, dude, this is going to be. be under an hour. Yeah.

It's not going to be under an hour. So you're going to say, Meshugah. Because I really stuck to my guns with Metallica, so I'm not going to fight your tooth and nail. No, and I don't, and that feels like sacrilege to me.

I think it's Black Sabbath. You can't eliminate Black Sabbath in the first round. I can't do it. No, no, no. It's Black Sabbath. It has to be. It's Black Sabbath. And that's title track.

Name of your band first album. Come on. And then very few heavy things, things heavier have been written since. It's black Sabbath 100%. Okay. I was seeing red. I'm hungry. I haven't, it's been a rough day.

It's black south. I don't know what I was thinking. I was out of my gourd. Next matchup. Holy shit. Now, this is interesting because I don't actually, I know my answer right away. I don't know your answer right away. Okay.

So it's suffocation versus cannibal course. Yeah. Right off the bat, I'm going to say suffocating. is harder. Suffocation is heavy, but they're fucking hard. Hard. But so is Cannibal Corpse. Yeah.

I don't know. I think that cannibal corpse is, cannibal corpse is like 20% or 30% less technical. Yes, which I think lends to them being heavier. Okay. I fully agree with that. Okay.

I think it's, I think suffocation wrote several of the greatest breakdowns ever written. I would call them all harder than I would heavier. Fully agree. Cannibal Corpse front to back discography has not ceased or altered or changed heaviness in one ounce. Even technical. Like everything is like... 100%.

They're more technical now. Yeah. But the output is somehow harder and heavier. Yeah. And I think that we need to give them some flowers right now. Cannibal Corpse is like that band. In terms of discography consistency, maybe more so than anybody on this list. They're the terror of death metal.

100%. Yeah. If Bolt Thrower put out another record that was better than those ones loyal, they would be the answer. But they haven't. They wrote one and it wasn't as good, so they broke up. You know? Yeah. Which is badass.

It's fucking sick. This, the fourth matchup goes to Cannibal Corpse. I love it. Conan versus Dying Fetus. Listen. I don't know Conan at all. Incredible band, but you're up again. against dying fetus.

Yeah. You're up against dudes writing purposeful break, like spin kick. 100%. This is a band who, Crowbar, I genuinely think their goal is, hey, let's be the heaviest man. Dying fetus, I think, their goal is let's be the hardest death metal band ever.

Yeah. And by doing that, they've written some of the heaviest music ever. Conan, incredibly heavy band. I recommend you go deep dive of their entire discography, Beau and all listeners, but dying fetus takes this matchup. Okay, good.

Good. So far we have Crowbar versus Metallica in the next round. We've got Black Sabbath versus Candle Corps. And we have Dying Fetus against the winner of this bracket, which is, will either be disembodied or Celtic Frost. Let's be serious here. It's Celtic Frost. It's Celtic Frost.

Much great respect to disembodied. Again, they're one of four hardcore bands on this list. Yeah. They have written some of these. heaviest breakdowns of all time. I didn't say hardest. Oh, interesting. They skew heavier than they skew hard.

Seven stitches, heavy as shit. And, you know, what they've influenced. Yeah, there you go. They've done a lot. Yeah, that's a good point. They are Amazon-esque in their job creation in the metal core department. But Celtic Frost is like Mount Rushmore of this shit. Yeah.

When it comes to, dude, and honestly, like, I know you celebrate the full catalog. I'm a heavy monotheist guy, which is the heaviest, in my opinion. Like, that's, that's, yeah. That's when they really, where it's like, oh, here's like the heaviest riffs we're going to do with slow palmutes and heavy.

But here's the thing. A lot of heavy music doesn't exist without Kelsey Frost. A lot of hardcore doesn't exist without Kelsey Frost. New York hardcore is not the same without Celtic Frost. Wow. straight up. And that's from the horse's mouth. The horses have spoken this. They said, Kelsey Frost.

Kelly Frost is the winner. You put on, if anybody's listening right now and you don't know what we're talking about, you put on the first song on Monotheus. You put on progeny. Progeny, bow, ow, ow, go, go, gong, gong, gong, gong, gong, gong, gong, gong, gong, oh, dude, from you. Man, that's, that's an, that's an artist who only got heavier as he. Yeah. As, you know, these guys start out extreme.

Start, starting Hellhammer, you know, pioneering this genre. Yeah. And then getting more extreme as you go is crazy when everybody else's thing is to kind of go more melodic over time. Yeah, right. And he said no. No. And then with his last project is like even more. It's coming up.

Coming up. All right. All right. Next round. This is crazy. Decapitated versus Demilic. So I'm going to go, listen. Decapitated is harder than they are.

heavy to me. Yeah, I think I agree. I think I agree. Because they're also way more technical. Demulik might as well be 7,000 pounds of musical heaviness. I don't know a thing about Demilik. The singer is just burping. Oh, okay. He is just burping over the heaviest shit you've ever heard. Tune low as fuck. Single string pit riff after pit riff after pit riff. They're unbelievable. Demelik, to me, easily clears Decapitated here. And I think a large part of that is the matchup. I think Decapitated could have gone far in this bracket.

Yeah. Demalik is historically, categorically, heavy. Heavy. Okay. I got to check them out. Man, this is an interesting matchup here. Yeah, this is your yin and yang. This is my yin and yang.

So the last matchup in the first round for the left bracket is Warning versus Tripticon. Warning, half the reason they're in here is the emotional heft provided by the music. Yes. Because, man, is that there is, if that's what we're, if that is the criteria, like the most powerfully emotional heavy music ever, nobody's coming close to warning. Yeah, looking at this every song. is coming anywhere fucking near. Yeah, it's like, even typo. Cruel bar.

Bows at the feet of, emotionally, of warning. Yeah. But you're up against Tripticon, and this is the heaviest man of all time bracket. Tripticon, do listen, Hellhammer starts, Celtic Frost immediately smokes every song they ever wrote. Yep. Tripticon starts, I'm not going to say they smoke Celtic Frost's psychography, but the goal, clearly the goal was, hey, let's make, I'm going to make a heavier band than Keltic. for us. Yeah. I'm going to continue, I'm going to evolve monotheists. Yes. It is, it is truly, it feels like the perfect third chapter of Tom G. Warriors' musical output, and it resulted in

some of the heaviest music ever written. Even the songs like Shatter, like the ballads. Yeah. Are heavy. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Gass me to a bottomless bit of pain. Dude, awesome. Awesome. Great song. Tripticon. Triptocon takes this from this matchup. Interesting. When I first saw that, I thought for sure you were going to ride for warning all the way. And you're being very objective. I think that's a top four or five records ever, watching from a distance, ever, period in music ever. But I'm a man of science and logic. And this is the heaviest man of all time. I'm not going to play technicalities here. You know, it would be interesting. I don't know how to do this, but to take like a record of each of these bands and look at like the waveform of each band. and see like the actual metric of like,

here's how it's EQed. You know that, but that might go to like torch. Yeah. And which is, it's funny that they're not on here because we did talk about them recently. But they were way more melodic

than they are heavy. But those heavy moments. Same with like Mastodon. Very heavy band. It's true. They probably could have been on here. Gojira, very heavy band.

Gojira, I considered, but I'm not familiar enough with them. Fair enough. And here's the thing. I've said this before on the show a bunch, but Gojira, I always have the utmost respect for because when I saw the first Slayer tour

after Hanam and died, Gojira was the only opener. That's a tough, oh, wow. That's a tough crowd. I got you. Opening for Slayer is scary because you might just get Slayer, Slayer, Slayer, Slayer. Yeah. Some of the loudest ovations I've ever heard during Gojira.

Really? They finished every song and they had the fucking crowd in the palm of their hands. It was beautiful. So honorary mentioned a good juror. Yeah, honorary. I agree. Big time. I agree.

That's our first round in the left side. You want to sum that up, everybody just listening? Yeah. So the winners, the next round matchups for the left side are Crowbar versus Metallica. Black Sabbath versus Cannibal Corp, which is the funniest thing I've ever heard. Dying Fetus versus Celtic Frost. Demalek versus Tripticon. Those are big matches.

Those are interesting. Those are main events. Yeah, yeah. In the second round, this is pay-per-view quality shit here. We're booking an incredible fest right now. Oh, my God. This is the best festival of all time. Maryland Death Fest hit us up.

We got you. Okay. It's time for the right side. This first one is Godflesh versus Heybreed. This one... Crazy matchup. Is a crazy matchup? Because truly, is Haypreed heavier or harder?

They're absolutely a harder band. they are heavy. Okay. I agree. And I think, yeah, and then it's like, okay, but who are they up against? Godflesh. They're up against Godflesh, and I'm not, I think Godflesh does so many things so well, you know? They, they have a lot of dynamics. Again, Amazon-esque in their job creation. Pioneered, created this genre, pretty much. Yeah.

Heavier than hate breed? I don't know. I don't know. I honestly, I don't know. I don't know. Let's make, let's call in a judge. Who are you going to call? We're going to call on Taylor Young. All right.

We have Taylor Young here to determine the winner of the next bracket. So first, first round, right side is Godflesh versus Hayprey. This is tough because Hayprey skews a lot harder, but Godflesh pioneered a genre. But I'm having a hard time saying, they're heavier than Hapri. It's Hapry. There's just, there's no debate. Thank you, Taylor.

Resident expert. Taylor Young determines. Thank you, Taylor. Sorry, Godflesh. Yeah, of course. I think, I feel like Justin would be like, well, yeah, it's so raw, you know. I don't think you know. He's so raw.

It's pretty heavy. It's pretty good. All right. Well, there you go. Hayprey wins first, first bracket. Yes. Okay. hilarious matchup for this second bracket.

Yeah. It is Candlemas versus Morbent Angel. Well, this is tough. It's not. It's morbid angel. Come on. Listen, I'll do respect to Canal Mask, probably my third favorite man at all time. But we're talking heavy.

And it's a morbid angel. Okay. Morbent Angel is going to make it far unless, let's be real. For heaviest. For heaviest. Few things come close. Let's be brutally honest here. Pound for pound.

track for track. Okay. Morbent Angel clears, absolutely most things. I mean, definitely Candlemasse, who... Okay. You're doing operatic Gothic doom metal songs. Morbid Angel's goal is heavy music. Yeah, right.

Okay. Florida music. Yeah. So here we go. Okay. This next round, I... Devastates me to look at. And, Kerry, I think you've done a...

Oh, my God. You've devastated me here. It is Shabalba versus Pantera. And listen, I know Shabababababh understands. Brian, I know you're listening, and I know you understand here. Zabalba, Shibalva. One of three on the list. One of three or four hardcore bands on this list.

Deerly believes. Deserves the spot like you wouldn't believe. Justice Tripp once did an interview talking about Trappender Ice where he was like, I don't want to make as much heavy meat. music anymore because what's the point if Zabalba's the heaviest. Zabalva's making the heaviest songs in the world. What's the point? And he's got a point. And I do think, you know, it deserves to be said. Zabalba has been carrying the heavy torch for Southern California and for hardcore for a long time. They belong to be here 110%. But unfortunately, they're up against a Titan.

They're up against a band that, like, when you hear a domination, you really think about, and that's on the first, like, real effort. It's like, God damn it. And it only got hit here. And it only got. And it only got. And so as I know, too, there's, I mean, come on. Yeah.

I want Zabalba to win. I know. I want my. Listen, I would love to be nepotistic here. Yeah. I think even Chabalba would be mad at me if I, if I, if I, because I know, listen, it is what it is. Yeah. Jabalba, I love you more than life itself.

Pantera is Pantera here. Yeah. Got it. I got to reluctantly go Pantera here. Yeah. Shout out to Jabba. But what's sick is Pantera is going to lose to whoever wins this. 100%.

Yeah. They're not making a past second round. We have Sepailitar versus down, which is actually... That's an incredible. That is like... That is really difficult. It is. Because you've got Kirk...

one of the heaviest rippers of all time. Yeah. Pepper. Rex. You got pepper, a goat, Rex, a goat. And Phil. But versus Sepulterra. Versus who I think are one of the more influential bands of hardcore. Whether people know it or not.

Like non-hardcore bands that have had an influence on hardcore, Sepulterra is in the Mount Rushmore easily. Easily. Celtic Frost and Seppeltura. Yeah. From like metal world, you know, two bands that, determined the next generation 100%.

It's Suppertr all the way from me here. Okay. Okay. Because like, oh, that's interesting. I'm, fuck, I might be arguing the other way. I might be saying that Settletor is harder than they are heavy. Down is like exclusively heavy. Even so. Okay.

Are they heavier than Sipatera? Are they heavier than fucking dead embryonic cells? So I'm saying. Are they heavier than Desper Cry? No. That's a different. kind of heavy. It is a different kind of heavy. And I think Sepultero is kind of heavy. It's not even close here. Troops of Doom, dude. How are you going to be fast and heavy?

Yeah. They found a way. Yeah. It's Sepulterra all the way. Yeah. Okay. This is getting hot. That one's really hard because I listened to Nola last night. Yeah. It's heavy and it's great and it's incredible. And it's, but it's like. It's a little more melodic, a little more bluesy. It's way more melodic. Catchier than Suppletar. Yeah, for sure. But heavier? The killer once covered

Barry Me and Smoke in a venue in Chicago that never had a show ever again. It was the first and last. The count. And when it got to the fucking verse riff, there were like these streetlights in the venue,

like as like decorative streetlights, but like small. But they were just throughout and they got torn out of the ground and used as weapons. I get it. And so for what I think about, and also that's the first song

that Down wrote. but also that verse you're talking about way harder than it is heavy think about it I don't know if you're going Kung

Kung Kung kha kha kha kha kha kong okay but think about the verse to nomad it is that it's heavy as hell all right self throw wins come on go pound for pound

go track for track here and tell me I'm off and that's good because then if we can't have Phil winning twice over Zabalba you know what I mean It's not happening. If Zababa would want Suppletura to go all the way, I'm sure. 100%. And Zababa gets what they want here.

Sepulterra over down, 100%. Okay, I'm with you. Crazy next matchup. Converge versus Docide. Two very different kinds of heavy. Two very different kinds of heavy. I only like Once Upon a Cross. I mean, this is a top 10 ban for me of all time.

I know that. I do know that about you, obviously. but I'm so, I'm not very well versed, whereas converge. You know a lot, but it ain't all heavy. It's not all heavy. No, you're right. Whereas D.S.I. Every ounce of it is heavy.

Yeah. The fast parts are heavy. The blast parts are heavy. The pit parts are heavy. They are still writing good shit. I don't like the AI album art, of course. But my God, this is a special band. There was something, I posted something the other day of saying,

oh, it was the no doubt tragic kingdom. where I said almost nothing is better than this. I do think DioCide is better than that. Now, let me raise something. Are they harder than they are heavy? No. Because even converges like Jesus Lizard, da-da-da-dan-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

Those are heavy. That's a heavy song. I agree. I think almost nothing on here beats D-Asside, if we're being honest. Yeah. Heavy. Heavy. Do you got, listen, if we,

Listen, if we took every record track for track next to each other, obviously Converge would have many moments where they went. D-E-Side is defined what heavy means in death metal. Okay, you're going to, I think you're going to lament that logic when we get to the final match-ups. That's fine. I'm fine with that. But I think right now, Converge versus D-Sy.

And I see what you're going for right now. Yeah. It's going to be, it's situational. And I think it's situational with Converge because so many of it is so abstract and melodic and in a way that isn't heavy that balances out where Deaside for not for one second, do they do anything like that other than be heavy. But do you think anyone who, whose last name isn't young has ever spin kicked to Deacide? No.

And I think that determines. that something is hard. Many people have spun cuck to converge. I think D.S.I. is too heavy to spin kick to. That's funny. I really truly think the opposite. I think converge is heavier than hard.

Diazad harder than heavy. But... Deicide doesn't have a lot of like obvious big breakdown parts. Very true. Very true. But it's really just like the most hateful, uh, anti-Christian lyrics over and over and over again

that makes you feel nothing but hate. You know what's a good example? And I know, I don't think he had much to do other than singing, but like you listen to that Vital Remains record that Glenn Benton did. And that's heavy without a slow part. Exactly. So that's actually a good point. And that defines Deaside's career.

It's like it's fast and intense and still heavy. All right. I can see. It's got to be DSA. Yeah. This is actually a really good matchup. Typeo negative versus sleep. I'm not a huge sleep guy, but I do, when it comes on, I am always like, oh, that's kind of fun.

Yeah, that hour long song was pretty good. Yeah, I like the desert, dude, Dune rocks. I'm all right. It's fine. Typo is a very similar kind of heavy to them as well. And a kind of heavy as warning is like the emotional weight is considered. Typo is simultaneously the heavy kind that warning is and also the heavy kind that Black Sabbath is very purposefully. Yeah, their genre of music is heavy metal.

1,000%. I don't think they're heavier than sleep. You don't? I don't. We got problems. This is my favorite band of all time. I know it. So when I'm looking back at our winners for the left side,

I'm confused as to how that doesn't carry over here. Because I'm going, again, this is facts and logic. I'm trying to be unbiased here. sleep this whole thing to people is that you get high and listen to it because it's so heavy. Isn't that the whole point? Yeah. Typo is, my intention is not,

I need to listen to something heavy. Let's throw on some typo. What's heavier? Singing about smoking hash in the desert and taking a trip to Jerusalem for an hour or wanting to kill yourself for a whole record. Typo wins 100%. Like slow deep and hard. No,

I know. And that was that, It's tough. I mean, here's the thing is people talk about one sleep breaker for the most part. Yeah, I only know too. I know Dove Smoker and the one with Dragnaut on it, which I think is self-titled. They're both heavy, which Typo only got thematically heavier, really. 1,000%.

World Coming Down is... Dude, World Coming Down is the heaviest, both, yeah, thematically and kind of sonically. Look at the lyrics to slow deep and hard. Listen, I know. I know. I think it's... This feels like nepotism, but... bit and I'm fine with that. But there's a reason that it is. Because it's ours. Yeah. And there's a

reason. When I read the lyrics to gravity, it like changed me. Yeah. It did me too. That that's the song that made them my favorite band. There's nothing heavier than gravity, baby. You want to talk weight. Great job. Great work. Now the next one is fucking insane. Yeah, this is crazy. Bullthrow versus napalm death. Now I'm going to be honest with you. If I was a betting man and I wanted to do like a side bet. And like we should, fuck, we should have like

written down on a card who we thought and then shown it at the end of who we thought was going to be the winner. That would have been fun. Oh,

I think we both know who the winner. Sorry. Yeah. So, bowl thrower are the band who I mentioned at the very beginning,

who I think are evenly hard and heavy. I agree. Like literally 50-50 because every heavy part is fucking hard. I agree. You can say

the same thing about Napal I don't think so. You can't say that about a two-second song. That's neither a heavy-in-law. They're not. There's so much more death to them than two-second songs. I know, but both rowers doesn't have one. And it's just like, by default.

Like, it's just like, I don't, I like napalm death. I've heard. Napalm death is, is the Black Sabbath of grind. Sure. Yeah, yeah. I'm fully, oh, we didn't put carcass on here, which is kind of crazy. Didn't the, how, huge omission to carcass. It's a big omission.

mission. Shout out carcass. You'll be on the hard one because they got hard parts too. Carcass will be on the hard one for sure. And if anything, yeah, that's easy. This is hard because both are again melodic band. Napalm death, not at all.

It is truly just extreme abrasive, oppressive heavy music. Yeah, but that doesn't mean anything. Crowbar is very melodic. I know. You know what I'm saying?

That's what I'm saying. It's like, you got to, if you're going to use that logic, you got to keep it the whole time. Fast for the sake of fast grind for the sake of grind, to me doesn't equal heavy. But that's there, but what I'm saying is there's so much more to them. And I'm fully aware of that, but I don't think bull thrower ever does that. So by, like, de facto. I think that's irrelevant. Because they, napalm death is never melodic.

So if one of those things, those cancel each other out. But melody can be hard or heavy. Excuse me. Melody can be. Sure. So can a two second song is heavy. No. I just, there's no way. There's no argument. Listen, you cover you suffer anywhere in the world. You're going to get the biggest pop you've ever heard. No, you're going to get a room full of people who have no idea what you just played.

No, they love it. I've had people sing along to it. I get it and I've seen them play it. You know what I mean? Like, I get it. But I just, I don't know. I, I, both are to me, is the name I would have written down on the card. They are the heaviest band in existence. You think so? Like, that's my, like, I hate to say it in the first round still, but that's my pick, yeah.

I think bull thrower is everything I want from heavy. I think they're far harder than they are heavy. I borderline wouldn't have put them on here. You just said 30 seconds ago that they're 50-50 heavy and hard. You said they're 50. And you said, I said, you're right. I lie all the time. I hope everyone can see the gas lighting that's going on in this.

Stephen here, editor for Hardlore. Let's go back 30 seconds. Like literally 50-50, because every heavy part is fucking hard. I agree. Listen, I love, listen, there's a few bands I like as much as I like both. Mr. Young's hot air balloon. And I'm just like, I've taken so many riffs from this man. Yeah, exactly.

And they're all hard. And we're, they are all hard. But like, dude, when the kill chain comes on and that part, underneath the kill chain is, gung, gung, gung, gung, gung, gung, that's heavy as fuck. I think if you're doing this, it's hard. No, that's heavy. You're headbanging.

I disagree. You're moshing to hard, you're head banging to heavy. I disagree. How can you? I think heavy is... No one was moshing to black sat. Yeah, I know. Because I wasn't there.

Plus... You should have seen me. Now I will say this. Thematically, bull thrower is very hard. Yeah. War. World War I mercenaries. Like the Crusades.

That's, that's, that's a different discussion. All right. We'll give it to bull throw. Thank you. Now, this next one is really funny. This may be the hardest pick of the, of the whole bracket. I think if we're, again, if we're sticking with what hard versus heavy is, It's obituary.

We have Slayer versus Obituary. I personally think that obituary is way heavier than Slayer. Heavier. Way heavier than Slayer. Like, they're, way. In that scientific test of like, you know,

omes and decibels of, of like, if you're scanning heavy, heavy music, obituary might have a shot. They have a real shot. Whereas Slayer is fucking hard. There are.

Slayer is, will be in the hardest man's list of. as well. Probably in the final four. And I will say, if this was best band ever, Slayer might go all the way. You know? But heaviest band? Heaviest ban versus obituary who are like, again, similar to the dying fetus thing

where it's like, yeah, they're doing this purposefully. Their whole intention is be heaviest man. And like Slayer ain't playing LDB. Which doesn't really count in this discussion. That doesn't mean anything. But it's something. That might make them heavier. Yeah, it's obituary.

I think it just has to be. We're talking heavy. We're talking heavy. We're not talking better. We're not talking fast. Yeah. We're not talking best riffs ever. Yeah.

Dude. Best rifts ever. That's a good bracket. Steven, delete that for anyone. See in a couple weeks for best rifts ever. Yeah. Oh, that's it. We're not talking best band ever, which again, Slayers could win.

Yeah. We're talking heaviest. Obituary is heavier than Slayer. Yeah. Yes. And that concludes our first round. First round, 42 minutes in. This will go quick now.

Oh, that's crazy. Everything's having. So now we're fine. We're fine. This is fun. This is fun. Okay. So our first round winners again are hatebreed and morbid angel,

Pantera and Sepulterra, deicide and typonegative, and bull thrower and obituary. This is a blast. You know what else is a blast, Bo? What's that? exploding kittens. Oh my goodness. The number one backed Kickstarter project of all time.

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In the heaviest span of all time. Holy Lord. So, big first matchup here. Yeah, we got Crowbar versus Metallica. And look, I'm a man of my word. I know it's Crowbar. It's got to be Crowbar. I love Metallica.

Metallica is my typo. Yeah, I know. sometimes it's the misfits, but sometimes it's Metallica. Right now it's Metallica. But I know that it's Crowbar. Yeah. And they know that it's Crowbar.

Yeah. Metallica would, I would have to think they agree. Absolutely. If Headfield's wearing, you know, Headfield in some kind of monster documentary, he's wearing, Aaron Osborne told me this. He's wearing one of the most limited, hard-to-find down shirts ever. It's the first one.

Really? Yeah. That, like, you only got, like, they only had it ever at the first down show. and he's wearing it when he's doing like some bullshit vocal. In some kind of monster. Post. Way post.

Folk Metallica, man. Yeah. Speech. That's very fascinating. Yeah. And, you know, I know that Kirk is a man is a writer who's constantly inspired by stuff, you know? Yeah. He's for sure out here being like crowbar.

They're heavy band, man. It blew up my speaker. They blew up my amp, this amp. Once again, if you have that, if you have the Kirk Hammond talking about his pedal blowing up his amp, please send it to us. Kirk, please, if you have the dark blood pedal demonstration video, we're dying to see it. It does not exist anymore. We need it. We need it.

Please send it. Thank you. Dark blood. So it's Croa. So, okay. It's Corvart easy. That makes sense. No, it's no ifsans or butts.

No, we got. Black Sabbath versus cannibal corpse here. And now I'm really trying... Of most respect to the goats, Black Sabbath. Yeah. You ain't heavier than cannibal corpse. Especially... Yeah.

It's... Dude, come on. I know. I know. I'm just... I'm really trying to think of, like, what we've been saying heavy means. I think whatever we've been saying, scourge of iron takes exception, you know?

Yeah. You put, you put fucking evisceration plague up next to fucking war pigs. That's two, you're going to be like, these are not the same genre of music. Yeah. This one's way heavier. Okay. Even though Black Sabbath is the, again, that's a really good way to. The reason for the season.

Yeah. Cannibal corpse is cannibal corpse. It is what it is. I don't disagree. Okay. In our next matchup, this is tough. Fetus. Dying fetus versus kelm.

Celtic Frost. I think, I think, I do think this is a hard versus heavy. This is a hard versus heavy and I think it's got to go Celtic Frost. Yes, I fully agree. Dying fetus have harder parts. Celtic Frost have the heaviest parts. 100%. 100%.

The like, yes, period. Yeah. They, they have mastered these like slow and heavy while still being intense and makes you do the face. Yeah. That's Celtic Frost. Yeah. I fully agree. And again, Fetus is one of the bands that will be on the hard list.

100%. No problem. You'll note for anyone playing along at home that some of our, like, Marauder is not on here. And that was very intentional. That's a hard band. Because that's the hardest band. We'll see. Maybe.

We'll see in a couple of weeks. Yeah, this is, this is like, this is kind of no contest to me in no disrespect to dying fetus. because they're so much harder than Celtic Frost. You know? There has to be one heavy. So there's no disrespect intended at all. No, it's, it is what it is.

And there's like, it's not disrespect. You're on this list. You are, this is respect. And there's also, like, all the bands we've omitted,

like I'm also realizing as I'm sitting right here with this dancing poster, dancing one's got heavy parts. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, but it's,

I think it loses to everything on it. No problem, but it's in the discussion. You know what I'm saying? Like there are, there's so many bands. If it, like, the, the definition of heavy metal has changed. Mm-hmm.

Because it is evolved. Of course. You know, we're not saying best guy is some monkey. Because there's guys now, you know? What? Monkeys are monkeys now. Okay. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. You get it. We've evolved. We've, okay, evolution. We're a cannibal corpse now. I got you. Yeah, we're not, we're not stoned. We're not monkey anymore.

Yeah, we're not monkey. Monkey, I would love to return to Monke. But now we're corpse right. I'm stuck as a guy. And I think, you know, Kelty Frost is heavier. Yeah, we come blood. 100%. So now, who would we got?

We got a band name I can't read and have already forgotten. Demalik versus Cryptocon. And that, come on. Without even hearing. Oh, it's Demlik. It's Demlik. 100%. 100%.

So let me ask you this. Colin, since you're saying this, who would it be Tripticon versus Celtic Frost? You see what I'm saying? I'm so glad I don't have to be. Yeah, yeah, but now you do. Thank God I don't have to make that decision. That's such a good matchup. It's probably Celtic Frost.

Interesting. Because Tripticon does have more like melodic. A lot of weird atmosphere. A lot of weird atmosphere. That's a hard. But Celtic Frost has like a glam rock. record, you know? Yeah, but...

So you can factor both, but I do still think... I think you're forgetting about the... You're forgetting about the Demulik Glamrock record, which people often forget about it. It's so... Yeah, it's called Jess and the Ancient Ones, and it's incredible. Yeah, it's got to be Demelik here. Just, just...

Demelik's... There's... It's in fucking, like, A... Yeah. And the whole thing is that it's heavy and a very... because again, the man is burping. Okay. I will, you know, just go with your judgment on it because I have such little experience with it.

I'm also realizing we could have put nachos on this because that is a very heavy band. It's a heavy band. There's a lot of heavy bands that can go on this. Again, but it's like, it's hard to look in hardcore for heavy explicitly. Yes. You know, that's our bread and butter. You know, we love, there's, we're here. We are here for hardcore.

But we're going, this is science and facts and logic here. So our left side quarterfinals, what do we got? We've got Crowbar versus Cannibal Corpse. That is fucked. And we've got Kelty Frost versus Demelik. Okay. Let's go to the right side. That's going to be for an exciting semifinal.

Yes. Very exciting. Yes. All right. Let's get to our second round, right side picks. First off, hate breed versus morbid. Angel. Morbent.

Jamie would probably say them. He would go, oh, morbid angels, heavy. Let me tell you something. Habre, it's hard. Let me tell you something. When we toured with Cannibal and Hate Eternal opened, Eric Rutan, who played in Morbent Angel,

his first tour with Morbent Angel was opening for Pantera. He told us that when Perseverance came out, he listened to it every day for two years. Here's the thing. I get it. I get that. But at the same time, Jost is going to be like,

Morbent Angels, the heaviest band. Yeah, but that is not, that's him, that's him being humble. That's not. No,

I don't think so. Yeah, that's not an objective look. But I agree, but I'm thinking, like, objectively here, heavy.

Heavy. Morbid Angel versus hate breed? Call your brother. This is more, this goes more Benjel. There's no call needed. Think about this, dude. Think about where the slime with.

Think about what we consider, like what hardcore, as you said, our bread and butter, what that considers heavy. I consider Hepreid kings of heart. Joss's whole thing is hard. Yeah. It ain't heavy, you know?

I think, I don't know if anybody in history has done hard better than Hayprey. Breed, Morbin Angel, Mount Rushmore, heavy, dude. Tones, riffs, vibe. What I'm fighting is that you and I have very different definitions of what we think heavier. With these selections. You know, I fully disagree.

I'll concede. I fully disagree. So we were saying we need a tiebreaker. I think so. I think Heybreed is heavier, especially. Than Mooran Angel. I think, I think that is to me. Yeah.

And I think every member of Hapery would agree. That don't matter. The craziest thing you've ever said on this show. That don't matter. That doesn't matter. That doesn't matter. Who loves... Are you calling Taylor?

Yeah, we're getting the resident tiebreaker Taylor Young back here. I like that because I do think he's the best objective. All right. We've got another tiebreaker. Taylor Young is here. In the second round, we've got Hate Breed versus Morbin Angel. To me, this is not even close. It's morbid angel with a bullet.

But say heavy, heavy, heavy, not hard. Heavy. Heavy. There we go. I mean, just one riff on gateways is, it beats almost anything. And I said that Hey, Brede would probably agree. Yeah, yeah, it's hard and heavy. See?

Yeah. See? Thank you, Taylor. Thank you, Taylor. Thank you, Tyler. I'll call you in round three. That was, that was perfect. All right.

So then there you go. I'm soundly defeated in the discussion. I can see to the young. The judges have concurred that Morbin Angel wins the first match in the second round. Fuck. Yeah. What can you do, you know? What I can do is argue tooth and nail for this next one.

Oh, you won't need to, brother. Okay, good. It is Pantera versus Sepulterra. Listen. I don't know. There are two pairs of brothers in my life who have impacted me. Two? I'm talking to.

The other pair are the same? are the Cavalera brothers. And big bump, big fist bump for the cavalieras is because to me here, no question. No question. Suppletura is the heavier band. Absolutely. Pantera may be the more extreme,

like, especially commercially, considering their success, it's like, whoa, where they went and what they did is pretty crazy. But again, when we're working everything, everything in and kind of genre defining, because like, Pantera started somewhere,

and then they went, went to a place that's like the trailblaze. They're hacking. And they've admitted that. They've admitted that. You know, they heard Exorder and we're like, we got to do it exorters doing it. Yeah. Yeah. Sepulterra were children in Brazil. Yeah.

Unbelievable. Fucking changing the God damn world. I may have misspoke. I may have said Pantera started one thing and then were trailblazing. I meant Sepulterra. They started as more of a, okay, so I totally meant Sempertoeer and I'm agreeing with you. They ended up fucking bushwhacking, dude. They're in the Amazon carving a new path for music.

Yeah. Like, true, 100%. Like, they are the real deal. Those first four, five records influenced the, like, every heavy band, every hard band that we like and have ever been in. Dude, and like, you know, you may not like, people may not like the record might be divisive, but like Roots is a crazy. Game change. a game changer when you really consider where they started versus where when the brothers left or when Max left. 100%.

It's crazy. So for me, for me, it's, for me, it's, I would say it's not even close here. Okay. If heavy is the conversation.

Yeah. Not even close. They never wrote a ballad, you know? So true. So true. And I love them ballots. Dude,

Cemetery Gates is one of the best songs of all time. Of all time. But we're talking heavy here. Science has declared. I love it. Sepuletura is the winner. No, this next one is going to break your brain in half. And no.

No? This is easy. Okay. Oh, fuck. We're going to argue. It's DeaSide all the way. Get Taylor on the line. There's no way DECD is heavier than typo.

Are you serious? Heavier. What are you saying? World coming down? Yes. You're thinking, you're too emotional here, dude. No. This is science and facts.

logic. Deaside versus typo. Talking about wanting to nail the Nazarene and kill God is heavy, but there is nothing heavier than constantly wanting to kill yourself, dude. Emotionally, sure. And that's a third of what we're talking about. Well, deicide versus typo, listen to yourself. I get it. Emotionally, this is my favorite band of all time. To say typo is way heavier than deicide is. Is, um, is. emotional. You're being reckless. I really don't think so. From the tuning to like the fucking China used on world coming down to the subject matter. But intention is not even heavy with typo. That's not true. I don't think that the intention of this is like, this is the heaviest song ever.

I doubt they ever said that. Dude, they wanted to be a black Sabbath, of course. They wanted to be the Beatles and Kiss. But there's a quote where one of them is, said, we covered Daytribber because it's heavy. I know, but still. Heavy. You use the word. Your whole thing is we are a mixture of Kiss, Black Sabbath, and the Beatles. That's what they say. Yeah. Deaside will say,

fuck you, fuck God. That's what we're, that's our influence. That's hard. It's badass is what it is. Of course it's badass. Don't, I mean, I'm not saying the DSI is bad. I'm just saying if we're talking heavy. This is crazy. Wait.

This, Bo, this is my favorite. I know, but blast beats are not... You think I don't hear where you're coming from? Blast beats don't equal heavy to me. You know? And Typo doesn't have that. D-Asside isn't all blasts. I know they're not, but they have way more than Type O who have zero.

Yeah? Yeah, that doesn't help your case. Of course it does. I just said that blast beats are not heavy to me and Typo have none of them. They can be. They can be. You're right. They can be.

Like ASUC is a very heavy. This is a crazy... I'm telling you. Yeah, but see, this is kind of bad. bad because I'm realizing you guys grew up the same and you're going to, of course you're going to agree. You, please feel free. If you've got a, if you've got a judge, you want to call in on this?

James is, I think James is working around. Let me call them. Yo, you're on the podcast right now. We are doing a bracket of heaviest bands. And I need, I need your opinion, okay? Let's hear it. So we're on, on this one semifinal bracket, we have typo negative versus Dicide for heaviest.

Heaviest. Not hardest, heavy. I mean, like, if we're going what I like better, clearly typo-negative, but, I mean, once upon the cross, I mean, is probably

heavier in theory than anything type of negative. Heavier than world coming down? 100%. I mean, I would say... Collins says 100%. The decide it has harder parts. If we're talking,

about heaviest comparatively. I like world coming down better than anything DISA's ever done. Okay. I think we're going heavy.

Okay. James, James, I'll text you. Hold on. Someone else is calling. I'll text you back. Sabah.

What up? Yo, you're on the podcast right now. He's on a boat. He's on a fucking boat. He's on Harvey's Lake. Yo, we're doing a heaviest band's bracket. Okay.

Yeah. We need your objective opinion. This is for heavy, not hard. Yeah, heavy. D-A-Side versus typo-negative. Who is the heavier band? Type-O. No.

Typo, easily. Easily. Typo by leaps and bounds. No. I would agree. Is that all you called me for? That's all I called you for. Maybe we need an expert.

That's simple. It's that simple, yeah. All right. Type-o-negative by a head to flank. Perfect. This is not right. Collins pissed. We're ties is double tie.

Colin, get your ears check. He says get your ears checked. Love you, buddy. No, no, no. All right, we got to get one more judging before we can make this call. You're right, we do. Who are you calling? Tyler Young.

All right. So, you know, we called others just in case to get other opinions. And now we've got a double tie for this next bracket, which is. Reiterate heavy. And this is heaviest. But to me, the answer is clear. Typeo negative versus Dicide. See, okay, well, you were putting the brackets together.

I said typo negative shouldn't be on the brackets. For heavy? I'm going with Dicide. It's Dioid. All right. Heaviest. That's what I said. So James Pliggy agrees.

Saba says typo. Yeah, but he's special. It's Dicide, man. It is. It's clear. Heavy? Yes. Heavy. Paul Mutes.

All right. We're going to make one more call if it's, if it's, and then we're going to, we're not, we're going to go until we've got an answer. Okay. An agreeable judge. We're tied again. We're tied again. You're the tiebreaker, but we need one more because we, you're, obviously, we agree with

each other, you know? Can I pick your call? Yeah, I was going to call Mike's, sorry. Who should we call? Well, I know Mike's answer. Mike's answer is Dicide, so, so, but you can. You can call him and get that answer. That's a good one, though.

You should call him. All right. Well, I'm call Mike. Okay, bye. Let's see it. Son of a bitch. I'm getting murdered out here. We've got Mike Cesario getting a haircut right now live on Hardlore.

Okay, so this episode is the heaviest band of all time. We're down to a bracket. We're tied. The heaviest band of all time. We're tied on a certain bracket. And this is heavy. The matchup is typo-negative. versus D-A-side.

We need you to break the tie. Is it just those two that I'm... That's it. Type-O-negative versus D-A-Side, heaviest band. I mean, it's D-A-Side, obviously. Fuck! Obviously. Fuck!

Obviously. It's D-A-Side. Thank you, Mike. Bye, Mike. Got it. Have a great haircut. Bye, Mike. There's an asterisk for this, but whatever.

Let's move on. I disagree. I just think, I think that the fact that this was even a debate is insane. to me. That's how passionately I think about it. And I'm sure you feel the same. But dude, science and facts and logic. Heavy. Yeah, I just, again, the, I think the definition of heavy is, is wavering for me. I'm learning what you think is heavy. But, but how, how can you listen to Deicide and think it's anything but that? It is true that there are, like, groovy, psychedelic typosongs that are not heavy. That are not heavy. And there's not one second of Deaside music that is

anything really other, the intention is heavy the whole time. Yeah, faster heavy. Even during the blast, the riffs are like, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, you know. Yeah. Okay. That's heavy.

All right. All right. Bolt thrower versus obituary. It's both. It's bull thrower. I'm not fucking around anymore. Listen, bull thrower is it, dude. Bull thrower have as heavy rifts as obituary.

They probably, even have a similar amount of releases, huh? Maybe they have, what, eight or nine LPs? Like around that, you know, I'm sure. Yeah, butchorey's got eight or nine LPs. Dude, they are both kind of equally heavy and kind of equal. This is really hard.

This is tough. This is tough. This is harder than the last one. But after what we just went through, I think I'll go both through. Call them all up. I think I just think so. And again, like my heart says otherwise.

I'll tell you, I'll be honest with you. My heart says obituary is the heavier band. I'm going to be honest. And I think, and I think again, that's because the intention of obituaries' entire discography is, it's a heavy band. And you know what? I'm going to concede. Because you know that's not bull throwers.

100%. That's exactly my reasoning. And also, I can't argue Bullthrow versus D-Asside with you or I will lose my mind. So I'm happy to argue Obituary versus D-Assad with you because I have less skin in the game.

Bull-thrower are the best band ever. Yeah, and that's what I'm saying. Like, if this is best band of all time, Yeah. Slayer would not have been out at all. No, there are... And bolt-thrower would never be out at all. Dude, we'd be...

The best bands of all-time episodes are going to be four hours long. The compendium. It's going to be very long. Okay. Obituary takes bull thrower. Yeah. Barely. Honestly, barely.

And like that breaks my heart. I fucking love bull thrower. No, I agree. But like, it's not to say that they're worse. Of course. I just want them to win. They have, they're harder than obituary for sure. Yeah, no, I agree.

But here's the thing. Like, even in their heaviest songs, there are these like beautiful melodic moments where obituary truly never. strayed from what they know that they are and what they want to be ever. I agree. Perfect. Okay.

And that is, that's our second round. Now we're at our quarter final. Who do we get? Let's go left first. Yeah. Holy hell. Crowbar versus Cannibal Corpse.

Now listen. I love cannibal corpse. Yeah, me too. I really do. It's crowbar. It's crowbar. Okay. Beautiful.

I'm not going to, it's 100% crowbar. I think, I think Cannibal Corpus would be like, oh yeah, it's Crowbar. Yeah. You know? And I can see Crowbar being like, well, yeah, it's us. Oh yeah, it's Crowbar, man. None of it. It's Crowbar.

Weisson O'Neill. Yeah, you know, much great respect to Cannibal Corpus. They played an incredible playoffs. it far. They deserve this spot 110%. They're up against... This is this is an unwinnable match. We'll get there.

We've got Celtic Frost versus Demlech next. Again, I default to you. I'm going to say Celtic Frost because... It's Celtic Frost. It's beautiful. And again, and I'm going back to the old influence debate here. Yes. I have to bring it back because just so much does

not exist without Celtic Frost. plenty of things exist without Demlik. There you go. That's a good way to put it. An incredibly heavy band. I highly suggest if you're coming out of this episode looking for new music, Demlik is going to break your brain.

If you hate disharmony, it's because Taylor was really into Demleck at the time. So a lot of things will make sense. I'll listen to it tonight at the gym. This can be... You're gonna be baffled. But then you're gonna... You'll hear the fucking...

The magic. The riffs within, you'll be like, dude, this is crazy. Okay. So the semi-final for the left side is Crowbar versus Celtic Frost. Yes. Banger, dude. What a fight. But let's get to our second round quarterfinals first.

This is going to be a doozy. Sepulterra versus Morbid Angel. I think we're a house divided. This is a house divided. We're house divided. I got to go morbid angel here. And I got to go Sepuletura based on the thing that you just said about the influences. Dude, I mean, same can be said for morbid angel.

Morbent Angel, Covenant was until something recent, the highest selling American Death Medal album of all time. Really? Yes. Really? More than a Cannibal Corp's record? I think a cannibal corpse record beat it. Okay.

Yeah. But for some time, Covenant was. the highest-selling American Death Medal album. That is surprising. Heavy. Again, Sepulah, much harder than morbid angel. Heavy? Even morbid angels' blast parts are heavy.

They don't, there's no, I don't, there's some melody. God of emptiness is a, but even that is heavy. That's like crowbar heavy. Here's the other thing that I know you know about me. And it took me a minute with like fetus. when it comes to metal, I'm fucking keto. I don't like the noodles. Get the noodles up out of my riffs.

Morbid Angel's got some noodling. Sepultero's got none. So for me, that matters. You know, they're more about a riff, which is heavier than loo-l-l-l-l-l-l-l. But that's, but even, but around those with Morbent Angel, you're getting some of the heaviest rifts ever. And that they exist to get to those moments.

Fine. The noodles make you earn the heavy. But crowbar and supplement. and a lot of these bands do it without you needing to avoid a part. Or should I say get to... I think I think this is extreme boas right here. Yeah, yeah, I'm a boas. This is extreme bo-bias.

But I know I'm not the only one. There are... No, but you got to... This is morbid angel. You know? Like, objective death metal Mount Rushmore. Yeah. Objective.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No argument. No argument. Sepulura changed my life. Same. In ways that Morbin Angel did not. Same. But this is the heaviest band of all time.

Okay. I think it's got to be morbid angel. But if you, listen, if you're sticking to your guns. No, because I... You want to call on a judge. You know what we can do. I know. Yeah, but your fucking brother, man.

We don't have to call him. No more judging because it's just I'm talking to two of you. No, I'll concede. And I'll say Morbin Angel is heavier than Sepulter. I do think that sepuletria sepeltura is harder. 100%. And they were, are obviously,

they're going to probably be a final four on the hardest list, in my opinion. Yeah. I think they're harder than they are heavier. So it just goes to show you how heavy they are. Sepulterra? Yeah, for making it this far into the list. 100%.

I'm fine with that. I love them. Again, they legitimately changed my life more, more so than most, I would say, Kelty Frost had a similar impact. Pantera probably had a similar impact. Typo definitely had a similar impact.

I'm extrapolating and I can already see what the semifinals for the right side are going to be and I can't wait to see what this does to you. Let's continue. It's going to be fucked up. So we're going morbid angel. We're going morbid angel. It's fine. The next bracket.

But here's the fucked up thing about like brackets. I'm looking at other matchups and I'm like, they're heavier to me than morbid angel. You know what I mean? That's the name of the game. But ultimately one winner is. is going to be crowned. You're right. It's probably going to be the right one.

Yeah, certain matchups would just determine different results, I think. It's tough. It's tough. Anybody could, any one of these with the right matchup maybe could have been in the semi-fine. Except for one who I'm confident is going to win. Yeah. So the next matchup is, this is Florida, historic Florida shit right here. D-Asside versus Obituary. I'm going to go obituary.

Okay. All right, you're impressing me. I'm with you. You're impressing me with your objectiveness about it. I'm with you here. D.Side is, again, top 10 all time. Obituary is probably number 11, you know. But the intention. Heavy.

Deaside noodles. Yeah. The riffs are, honestly, obituary is just, they've been, they're so their own thing. Yeah. You know? And don't get me wrong. A lot of that is in part to Keltie Frost. where it's like, hey, maybe we're not the best guitar players.

But. But we know what fucking heavy is. Yeah, really well said. And don't get me wrong. There are noodle. There's some good pasta out there when it comes to riffs. Carcass. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. And you know? Good, delicious. That's fucking Fusili. Amang. You know, that's good stuff. Rigotone. Morbent Angel.

Riffittittoni. Morbent Angel, that's fucking one of the new noodles. What's the, I guess it's kind of a Fusili. But Diocius versus Obituary. It's obituary. Listen, if it's better banned, I'm a Diocide guy. Yeah. If it's heaviest ban, it's, I don't even, I don't think it's close that obituary is the winner.

Okay, good. I agree with that. And I'm impressed by your objectiveness. I see now that your intention all along was to be fair. Science and facts and logic is where I'm going. And that's why, like, you don't think it hurts me to, eliminate typo from this? You don't think that is hard for me?

Yeah. Science and facts, SFL, dude, South Florida. You got to think about it, South Florida in this case. We've got our semifinals done. From the left side. Crowbar, Celtic Frost. Beautiful. From the right side,

Mormon Angel obituary. Wow. Florida is in this shit, dude. Big time. Scott Burns is all over this motherfucker. And, and this is it. We've got, okay, we're going to do our left side. Yep. Semifinal.

Yep. Presented by Mansket. Crowbar versus Celtic Frost. Take a fucking, it's crowbar. Take a fucking, guess, buddy. It's fucking crowbar.

It's crowbar. It's funny putting crowbar. This would almost be better with crowbar off the list. Yeah. Because they're kind of just like. It's tough. I mean, it's just. They do every heavy, everything that can be heavy about heavy music is in their songs.

Literally. Physically. Yes. Physical. Everything. Gerth. Okay. Beards.

It's crowbar. Congratulations. Celtic Frost, we love you so much. Yeah. We so greatly appreciate your contributions to music. You had a great season. Truly. Unbelievable season.

With a different coach and a different matchup and different division, might have gone all the way. But you're up against, this is a real David versus Godzilla matchup, you know? And Lord Crowbar just nuked Switzerland. And now, congratulations to Crowbar for being a finalist. Yeah. And now we go to our right side, semi-final. I'm curious what you pick here.

This is... We got morbid angel. This is crazy. These are neighbors. Yeah, neighbors. Which is kind of cool, actually, when you... It is very cool. What Tampa has done for music?

Because you've got a cannibal corpse from Buffalo. They moved to Tampa. I got heavier. There's something in the water there, and it is... Heavy. Lead. Lead. We've got morbid angel versus obituary.

What's your immediate reaction, Obituary? I never thought of Morbid Angel as being that heavy. They never were like a heavy band to me. To me, this is, this is, we're at an impasse. Yeah, this is, this is a tough,

to me, this is like a runaway victory from Morbin Angel. I'm going to do that so that I can hear you talk through the finals. So fine. And I'm going to be, listen, let's get some judges. I'm going to do that. going to need.

Warbit Angel versus Obituary. This is tough, but I admit that this is tough. Call your brother. That's a good one. You're not going to like what he said. God damn it, dude. All right, he's not answering.

Why don't we, why don't you, why don't you try another judge? Why don't you try Andy from Weekend Notches? That's a good one. He'll, I'm being honest, he'll probably say,

Warbid Angel. But, but it would be nice to get an objective, like someone who doesn't, we don't really talk too much. Oh, I got Charlie from Ingrown in the studio. Wow.

Unbelievable. You guys are on the podcast right now. We need a tiebreaker. We're doing a bracket of heaviest bands. And Andy, I did call to get your opinion on this. All right, cool. Okay. So in our bracket, right now this is for the, to be one of the finalists.

We have Morbid Angel. This is for heavy. Morbid Angel versus obituary. Dude, obituary. Fucking obituary, bro. Yeah, I mean, I guess. That's Andy. If we're defining, like, Mormon Angel tunes lower,

but generally, I mean, are, like, faster. So if we're defining heaviness by, like, tempo and groove, it's obituary, like, no question. And then let me ask you something real quick. A former one that I conceded. It was typo versus morbid angel. No, Diaside, Diaside. Typo versus Diaside?

Yeah, for heaviest. For heavy? I mean, again, it's like, okay, like once upon the cross is like a crushing record that's like got slow. Well, not necessarily slow, but like groovy, brutal chug parts. Whereas typo negative is like slower than like most funeral doom bands. Yeah, but we're not talking to. just tempo. Tempo doesn't determine head. And again, typo, I think probably

tune lower. Yeah. That's at all factor. It is. I agree. I don't know. Like, yeah, if we're talking just straight, straight groove, tempo, tuning. No, listen, you show your mother typo negative and D-aside and ask which one is heavier. What's she going to say?

Colin's saying which one is, if you showed your mother typo versus D-aside, which one is she going to say is heavier? He's going to say D-aside, but like, because they're going to hear, Because people who don't know anything. Yes, I agree. That's science and facts and logic. That's what I'm saying.

Yeah. Heaviness. Okay. And I don't think that's, if you know about heavy music, abraciveness, like, isn't the, the most important point. See, I fully agree. But for obituary, you guys say obituary? Yeah.

100 million. Yeah. 100 million percent. Thank you, boys. Thank you. Okay. Have fun. So that's, you know, that's five judges.

Listen, thank you, Ingrown and Andy. I appreciate that. insight, I will go on record as to say, Morbent Angel is the second heaviest band of all time. Okay. When Kerry made this bracket, I said, make sure Morbin Angel and Crowbar are not next to each other. Good. Good. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So what do we do? We'll give it to obituary. Listen, we got, we're going science facts and logic. If, if, if a band like Ingrown hears the second heaviest band of all time, Morbin Angel.

and thinks they're not as heavy as obituary, then maybe my mom would too. I think the way that Andy is considering what heavy means is more in line with how I think heavy means. I get that, but you can fake that. Oh, 1,000%. There are very popular heavy bands that are not that heavy. You can cover a Michael Jackson song

and a slow, low tuning. Of course. And play it like typo. And you're going to tell me it's heavier than Dioide because you played it in a slow, Lo-tuning? I fully understand what you're saying. I understand that, but Typo ain't doing that. I think obituary is one of the heaviest bands of all time. It is, it is much simpler

music than obituary is fine. Or you mean the D.S.I. Yeah. No, no, the obituary because the matchup here is Morbid Angel and obituary. Oh, duh. You know, and I, I love obituary. I think I just think like Morbent Angel's Mount Rushmore heavy No question Okay

I think I think Maybe I need a 10 bands on this bracket Are heavier than I'm but sure Can you make a morbid angel playlist Absolutely Give me 10 Absolutely Give me 10 songs

Just give me a good taste Like a medium Done dude I'll I will fuck you up With Nobleben Angel You will print a retraction Maybe I'd love to

But listen, you're out alone, clearly. You've got a room full of guys who disagreed with you. And that means our final for the heaviest band of all time. And now this is, to me, this is now a runaway victory. The final for the heaviest man of all time is Crowbar versus Obituary. Which is awesome, by the way. Two bands still rocking. Yeah.

Still playing with hardcore bands here and there. Still writing great records. Dude, fuck. I'm actually really happy with these finalists. Me too, because Morbin Angel is not doing that. anymore. Precisely. Yeah.

I'll tell you what, Cannibal Corpse may be writing the best records of any damn ban on this list now. Band fucking rips. That's a, that's a band. But the final, this incredible final in the hard lore, heaviest band of all time is Crowbar

versus Obituary. And I think Bo and I can very clearly, confidently, and excitedly announce that the winner is Crowbar. By a mile. Like Crowbar is Goku. Like it's not even fair. Yeah, 100% dude.

This is Mario versus Obituary. Bowser Jr. Which I, who is one of my favorites. I love Mount Rushmore. But there's greater foes for Mario out there. I like that there are the far, the polar opposites on the bracket.

Yeah. Northeast versus Southwest. It's kind of cool. They just, and they beat Slayer to get here. Yeah, they beat the fucking, like bands that they would say, oh, that's a heavy band, you know. Yeah. And, yeah, I'm really happy with the finalist.

I think it's crowbar. Like I said in the beginning, I wanted bolt thrower to be a finalist. Yeah. It's crowbar. I knew right away. But I think there's just, you know, what defines heavy. And I, but here's the thing is like, Crowbar defies a lot of that. Very much.

Somehow successfully. Very much. They have cool. like guitar effects that don't like Morbidians does like the chorus on vocals a lot and like it works and it shouldn't work but it sounds fucking awesome you know Crowbar does that too. They have layers

great tones fucking just I don't know. They're much more in line with typo than they are most bands on here. Yes. Which is like they're much more an example of what is traditionally defined as heavy metal

which is truly like they've done that They've done heavy metal, heavier and better than every single band in history, I would say. And consistently. Heaviest band of all time. The heaviest band of all time is Crowbar. Congratulations. Congratulations to Crowbar. We accept on their behalf.

Episode coming soon with Kirk. I swear to God, that's a real thing. It's going to be unbelievable. Yeah, we did it. Here's Kirk watching Twitching Tongues practice. Thank you. Kirk, Krobar, truly game-changing, groundbreaking band. We're so proud of them for being the heaviest man of all time.

And we hope you had fun with this. We can't wait to do the hardest band of all time. Yeah, that's going to be, that's going to be interesting because you're going to get, like, demos. You're going to get, you know what I mean? Like, that's a totally different conversation. It is, yeah. But this was, you know, I think we had Crowbar pegged from the jump. I mean, you can almost look at this.

And actually, I know when you sent me the list, Crowbar was number one. They're the first one on the list of like, am I forgetting anyone? It was Crowbar. Moriboran Angel was number two. Big shout out to Morbin Angel, the runner up in my heart. But hey, Obituary is still out there rocking with. the like the lineup. Yeah.

Yeah. Very true. Still writing great records, still touring, still sounding unbelievable. I think a truly deserved runner up. But for the record, I think the winner,

the runner up in my heart, if I was really wanted to be annoying, would be bull thrower. Interesting. I think that would be my, my, like. I think that Morbid Angel is a hundred times

heavier than Bullsrower. That's crazy. And I love Bullthrow. You love a noodle. Orban Angel is, is breaking, the scale of what heavy is. Apparently not.

And I'll show you. Apparently not. Apparently not. Apparently not. But thank you so much for watching. We hope you've enjoyed this. Crawbar is the heaviest span of all time. Obituary is the runner-up.

A very deserved one. Again, I'm talking in circles now because I'm emotional. Yeah, I loved it. That was great. And we got more. To finally have an answer. Thank you all for watching. We will see you next week.

Bye.