HardLore - The Origin of Twitching Tongues (With Taylor Young)

Episode Date: April 27, 2023

Colin and Bo are joined by first ever 3-time guest Taylor Young to celebrate the return of Twitching Tongues and the very special double LP re-release of their debut album Sleep Therapy via Closed Casket Activities. Recorded when Colin and Taylor were 18 and 22, and taking two years to be released, they talk about the pains of outgrowing their first album before most people ever heard it, leaving behind a complicated legacy and creating resentment towards the songs. Now with the benefit of hindsight, they celebrate the album, and the impact it made on people early in their journeys through hardcore music. They're back, baby. Order the Sleep Therapy Redux 2xLP and tons of new merch items now: www.twitchingtongues.com Join the HARDLORE DISCORD: https://discord.gg/jA9rppggef Join WHATNOT with our special little link to get $15 off your first purchase. Get ready for the first ever Hardlore live auction TOMORROW, April 28th at 8:30 PM EST: https://www.whatnot.com/invite/hardlore Get 20% OFF @manscaped + Free Shipping with promo code HARDLORE at MANSCAPED.com! #ad #manscapedpod FOLLOW TWITCHING TONGUES: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/twitchingtongues TWITTER | https://twitter.com/twtchngtongues FOLLOW TAYLOR: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/taylorxyoung TWITTER | https://twitter.com/taylorxyoung FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/hardlorepod/ TWITTER | https://twitter.com/hardlorepod SPOTIFY | https://spoti.fi/3J1GIrp APPLE | https://apple.co/3IKBss2 FOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/colinyovng/ TWITTER | https://www.twitter.com/ColinYovng FOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/bosxe/ TWITTER | https://www.twitter.com/bosxe Check out our merch at https://knotfest.com/store/?view=hard... Find all of our videos at https://knot1.co/3vWXsbx #HardLore   HardLore: A Knotfest Series, Fueled by Monster Energy Edited by Steven Grise • Title sequence by Nicholas Marzluf Join the HARDLORE PATREON to watch every single weekly episode early and ad-free, alongside exclusive monthly episodes. Join the HARDLORE DISCORD for community discussions and to participate in our future Q&A episodes. FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER, SPOTIFY, APPLE FOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAM FOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER   For sponsorship opportunities, email us! [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

welcome. It's hard lore time. How are you, Bo? I feel like I haven't seen you in a week. In one day. We have a very special guest today for a very fun reason. Please welcome my brother, engineer, mixer, riffer, man, the pit recording studio, God's hate, twitching tongues, dead body, criminal instinct, eyes of the Lord. Midnight Sons. What am I missing? That's fine. Taylor Young.

Welcome to you. I'm happy to be here. Thank you for coming back. This is your third episode with us. The second that is available. Am I the only one? Yeah. You're the first three-time guest.

Was I the first two-time guest? You might have been the first two-time guest. Is there any other one? M.O. was on minis. So it's on. There's a couple, yeah, there's a couple two-time minis, Brendan, Emma, Taylor. Taylor's two-time, has a mini, too. Oh, yeah, wow.

Which is hilarious. Wow. But we're here for a very special reason today. Let's talk about the reason. Yesterday, our very first, Twitching Tungs' very first LP received a big, big-time double LP reissue with every song from that era, which, that encompasses the entire beginning of twitching tongues musically. So what does that entail?

That entails sleep therapy, the demo, a typo negative cover. Oh, cool. And a pentagram cover that was on a 7-inch. It's all out there. Now, you've heard it by now. But I figured it would be a fun way to kind of deep dive into those songs the day after they are re-released. by being joined by my brother who was my right and left-hand man at the time. And we, I mean, all of those songs were just he and I.

So it makes sense. For everything? Him and me. Him and are you he? Yes. Yes. Him and me. Yeah.

On all of those. I played drums on all of them. Wow. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. On all those two.

So it was just the two of us on those, on all 14 tracks? 14 tracks. I should probably pull it up. Yeah, that's what I'm doing right now. I've got stuff here. I've got it here. Don't worry. You got it here?

Yeah, I don't either. You're not going to need it. I'm so prepared. I'm so prepared for you. What are you guys been doing lately? I've been just obsessed with this fucking anime. You're a big anime guy? No, I'm not.

It's new. This is a new development. It's called Dr. Stone. It's about the world turning to stone. And then one guy comes to life. It saves us. Like a Dr. Pepper situation. It's, uh, you know what?

It's a little play on words. You know, that's Japanese. There's always different meanings. They're geniuses, man. Well, who knows? It's crazy that right now, of all times, you're into anime because lately, I'm going to tell you my routine. I've been waking up at about 3.30 in the morning every day.

And from 3.30 to 5.30, I watched Dragon Ball Z highlights. Oh, really? It'll be like Trunks meets Vegeta for the first time. You know, like stuff like that. Yeah. And it'll be like five part things on TikTok. I'll watch it every single one of the bastards. Well, I've watched all of Dragon Ball Z probably like eight times in my life.

Eight times? I was obsessed with Dragon Ball Z when I was younger. So I know all that shit. Who's your favorite? Dude, who's my favorite? Yeah. I mean, future trunk. Future Trunks.

I love me some Piccolo. Crillan? Dude, Crillin, kind of an MVP. Stops for you really, if you really think about it. Taylor,

you fuck with cartoons, Japanese cartoons? Honestly, yeah, but I like the gnarlier ones. Yeah. That's that? There's the, the Ninja one.

I can't remember the name of that. It's super bloody. Love that one. Yeah. There's the seven, Emphasent 7 remake Which is hilarious They're like in mecha suits and shit

I liked that one I like Roroni Kension Wow, it's pretty cool Taylor's cultured people don't know this man Yeah, he's cultured The oh the Blade of the Immortal one That's an Amazon exclusive I haven't seen the

There's an anime of that Yeah, it's gnarly Oh my God dude that movie is unbelievable There's only one season, but it's based, they're both based on a manga. I did start Attack on Titan, which is also very, like, violent and cool. Yeah, it is violent. And beautiful. I like that one.

I can't get down with most of them. No, same. And this Dr. Stone one, there's a lot of, like, like a lot, yeah, a lot of that. A guy goes, uh, why do they love that? Yeah, I don't like that. I don't know. But it's so wholesome and fun. And, like, I love video games and stuff where you start at, like,

Stone Age and work your way up. Oh, that's fun. So that's like my favorite. Civilization, Age of Empires, all that. Yeah, I love that stuff. Well, we're here to talk about twitching tongues, I guess. I could talk about Dragon Ball Z for two hours. When did twitching tongues become a thing?

Like, okay, we're a band now. Mid to late 2009. Okay. I... Yes. He's really good with dates. I'm very good with dates, trust me. Yeah, I guess that sounds right, because Ruckus was in the thick of it.

Yes. No, what is that? Okay, let's go back then. What does that mean? So on my notes here, I have Ruckus here because Ruckus was really the stepping stone into Tewishing Tung's existing. And Ruckus is the reason we thought twitching tongues couldn't sound like what we really wanted twitching tongues to sound like right away.

Because we had both. Because Ruckus was doing, dun, dun, dun, dun, you know. Yeah. And that's all he and I ever wanted to do with our lives was done, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. So it was like, okay, we have to kind of have two identities here

if we're going to justify this, the second band existing. I see. And that's, who's in Ruckus besides you two? There were a few, but the singer Jacob was the main one. Jacob was like the other guy.

He was the, yeah. Oh, I figured one of you guys saying. That's interesting. No, no, there was a guy There was a dude He named Jacob He named Jacob

Jacob Woodley He was a He's a gnarly fellow He is a He's an ass beater He's a motorcycle crewman Yeah I haven't seen him in a while

He came to one of the for the children's A few years ago Moshed hard as fuck For a hundred demons And the bounce Yeah He used to either He used to either come

And like beat at ass or send a proxy to beat ass. Yeah. Like we'd be in, we'd be in like Richmond and I'd like the scariest guy ever would walk up and he'd be like, Jacob sent me. And then we, and then twitching tongues would be playing like demo era.

And a big motherfucker in a rocker is just like murdering. Yeah. So I, that was there was one show where it was literally Richmond where the promoter was like, Hey, uh, who's that dude? He's like,

oh, he's friends with the singer of a ruckus. And he's, okay uh cool he's just like whooping ass while while we're going manna ban on bam bam bat bat bat bat bat bow yeah moshing by proxy is an incredible incredible I'm gonna start doing I'm gonna send somebody in

yeah yeah wow ghost mosher Colin sent me yeah we're we're almost there as a show um but ruckus I feel like the LP No, that's not true Let's back up a little bit Ruckus did Two or three demos

Before doing a real record Human Pollution Really? Was the thing, yeah There's a bunch of demos Most people never heard them There were There was only one that came out though

Okay Seven came out Seven did not Or wait seven did Seven did not Oh eight It did. Yeah, yeah.

There's a, demo with a different singer on it that never came out. Right. Completely different recording. And then we did two songs with Jacob that came out

and were only released for like days. And then that the label Beatdown Hardware hit us up to do a record. I was going to get to beat down hardware eventually. Okay.

Yeah. But yeah, that relationship with Beat Down Hardware started with Ruckus. And you guys did guitar drums respectively? Yes. Okay.

Yeah. Old school. You know? That's like, that's who we were. That's what our identities were. The drummer of guitar. Yeah. Player brothers.

Yeah. Because it was like we'd had that with fight everyone, which I did not start. So like I was a total outsider in my short time in that band where I was 16 years old. Yeah. Ruckus was the first thing where it was like, Taylor and I, okay, we're starting a band together.

Yeah. Got you. And it only took two years for us to go, okay, we're starting another band together. Yeah. And it was it was typo, only living witness, San Black Church, and agents of man that made us like pretty much that, would you say that's the big four?

Boys to men. Boys to men was a big one for me. That's actually true. This is the second Boys of Men in two weeks. I'm not lying. Taylor, you can partake and you're a boy too, man? No. Okay.

But he knew. But I understood that he, you know, we had to pull. melodies from places. There's like weird. We pulled melodies from weird places. That's kind of the best, right? Well, you have to do that because if you're, if you're writing hardcore, pulling from hardcore, it's derivative.

It's like it always, it's always derivative. So it's better to pull from, to make hardcore or metal pull, like pulled from normal things. You can derive. You can derive. You got to derive creatively. Yeah, I don't want to. I don't want to be, I'm not going to start a band that sounds like Cromags and lift from Cromags.

What's the fucking point of that? Right. I'll tell you a fun. Cromax. Designated deriver. I'll tell you a fun derive. God's hate number one intro. All I wrote the dun dun dun dun dun in like 2016, but didn't know what to do with it.

And then I was on a run and I had my thing on complete shuffle and a Barry White song comes on. and the Barry White song starts with and I like, I ran home and I was like, that's it. And, and like figured it out that that's how I was going to do the dun, so it was Barry White.

Thank you Barry White for helping me there. Barry White's drummer. Thank you Barry White's drummer for being like, how about this at some point? You've seen that, you've seen that TikTok of the dude that played on, off the wall, right?

Bo? We talked about it. Where it was like, come up with an intro. For rock with you. Yeah. And he's like, how about this? Yeah. That's my favorite fill of all the time. And he just like. They were like, hey, you have one take.

Do something that everybody will remember forever. Forever. And he just nailed it. And he do get a leuc. Gagataka. And he said like on that take, the whole band played better. Because he hit it and everybody was like, oh. Which.

which like Taylor and I felt that. That was a palpable feeling when putting together the demo because it was me on the kit, him on a guitar. Damn, I just went full circle. Yeah, that was good. That was good. Rock with you to Twitching Tongues demo in our living room about 15 feet from where he's sitting now

where Taylor and I would just be playing stuff. Like he'd hit a riff. I'd hit a beat over it and we'd look at each other. It was just, it was mostly nonverbal of us being like, And then there weren't, there weren't a lot of riffs like pre-ritty. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think Loveless was the only one we were like, all right, we're doing this.

I had the verse of Loveless from a one song demo I did for a band that never happened. I don't know if you remember that, Taylor. I don't remember shit. So there was a band that I was going to do and I did one, I recorded one demo track with you. And the end of the song was done. Yeah, nah, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na. That sounds like that. That tempo.

Sounds familiar. So. And then when it got to, so love those, the first song that we ever wrote. Fell from Grace. Fell from Grace. I fell from Grace feet first. Track one on sleep therapy.

Which would not be released for. The demo version was crap and it needed a mosh part, I think. It needed a mosh part. Yeah, the original ending. No, it went dad. And dund da. It was like some crowbar shit, but like without the crowbar swag. Well, there was no mosh feeling.

Yeah, it didn't feel like a pit. Looking at the demo, I don't think I know any of the songs. You don't know a love of a sniper? I don't. We never had them streaming. None of them. Yeah, so I just don't. Until now.

Was Razor's Edge named after? The wrestling move? I think so. It was. So it was like, okay, it was like, that's the coolest move. How do I, and then I was, for some reason, I was on some anti-suicide kick. I don't know why. It's like one of my favorite things.

Then you were on a, then you were on a suicide kick for 10 years. Yeah. It was like, wait a minute. Maybe, maybe those guys were on to something. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. There are a lot of questionable lyrics on this one. Oh, my God.

Start to finish. In the disguise. dude. I feel like I was like turning into a person. Yeah, my mind woke up one day when I was like 25, 26. Yeah. Everything before then, I

couldn't tell you why I did anything. Absolutely. Yeah. God, do I agree with that? Lyrically more so than anything. Because reading some, even some of the recent stuff, I'll be like, what the fuck? I think you're also, you're proof that you shouldn't be allowed to get tattooed until you're 25 because you don't actually like the stuff you're going to like.

It's true. And you are the only person in the world with like no actual bad tattoos. Legs, I got some. No, no, no. But like your bad tattoos compared to mine are like, yes. All your, yours are just in a different section of the Louvre. And mine's like in the bathroom somewhere.

But your first tattoo from like an old head perspective is the coolest thing of all time. What was this thing? Suck. No, no, not that one. The other one. The real first tattoo. That's the second tattoo. That's the first one.

Is that the typo one? No. No. Tell them what a... It's a horrible rendition of Jesus with some dying fetus lyrics on it. Oh, that's sick. Yeah. And that was what year was that?

The dying fetus lyrics make it cool. I don't two of seven. Six or seven. You wearing shorts? Yeah. No, I don't wear shorts. I'm grown. Hey, Boe agrees.

I'm wearing. I totally agree. But, It's hot. You're in Southern California. I don't know. It's not hot. It's pretty nice today.

I actually... I do wear shorts when it's hot, but I try not to. Yeah, you should. No one should never wear shorts. Yeah. Anyway. How many...

Tell me about... So I've put out a tape demo. It's like the one thing I've ever personally done on my own. And it fucking sucked. Did somebody put out this demo? Amazing question, by the way. Thank you. It is amazing question.

See them all the time. All the time. Both of them. Yeah. The Twitching Tongues demo tape was released by a fellow named Calvin. Is that who we met the other day? Me? Who did we see in Baltimore that you just couldn't be happy?

That was Nick Heitman. Okay. You were tickled pink. We'll get to Nick Heitman. Okay, okay. Beloved sweet Nick Heitman. This was Calvin and another fellow named Scott. And they did a tape label called Born Ill

at the time. And they made 100 tapes. So if you have that demo tape, just know. 100 were made, but about 30 of them were kept in my bedside table drawer until it was accidentally thrown away. So they didn't know.

No, I got them. I got them, brother. Are you serious? Yeah. The whole lot. I probably have 20 tapes. So you found the drawer? I don't know if I,

I don't know anything. about a drawer, but I have the tapes. Wow. They were in like a toolbox. What not? Yeah. Well, you can find them tomorrow on whatnot. Yeah.

Similar. Are you doing a whatnot tomorrow? Yes. Oh, then yeah, I'll dig them up. Yeah. But like tomorrow. Tomorrow. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. I think Harmsway demos, there's like 50 and over half were in James' trunk for years until he just threw away. That's how that's see that's what I thought happened. Yeah. I was like I must have thrown away because them away because A,

nobody wanted them. B, I'm sick of looking at them. They look good for it. Especially for the era. Yeah. They're in cool cases. The CDs we made and I was like, those were dope.

Cedes were fine. The tapes look cooler. I love the way tapes look. I know it's like. It's your favorite format, right? I just think it looks awesome. That's dumb. But I respect it.

How is it any dumber than a CD or like any? CD sounds great. This CD is this big. Tapes sound so bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not talking about Sonic quality, guys. You just like it. I'll say that the CD is double in size so that the artworking look cooler.

Yeah, but what I like about the tape is like I have slow deep and hard on tape, like the thought of him having to figure out the layout. Like, I like that. Yeah. It's like this weird puzzle. That works for everything, but yes. No, but it doesn't because I have a lucifuge one that's an upside on cross because they had to design it that way. That's the only one. I have a broken one that's a little booklet where there's like a bunch of pages.

You're talking out of your ass, Taylor. Let me like what I like. I don't. I won't. Beau really puts the ass and cassette. Cassette. Just kidding. I just think they're neat.

Hey, I get it, man. They are. J cards are really cool. That's definitely the coolest part. Okay, so fell from grace, obviously didn't make the demo. It wasn't ready. There's another song. There's five songs in the demo session. What was the other one?

Volunteering confinement? Yes. It was also like, it was also like, bam, band, bat, bed, yeah. And you remember, do you remember what that song came from? My Lee, Cyrus. Yeah, yeah. So I made a video, this does not exist.

If you have, if anybody knows a way to find it, let me know. Wait, you have it. No, I don't have it. I wiped it clean, trust me. Oh, I thought, okay. I wanted this thing gone. I wrote a song for Miley Cyrus as like a bit, you know? Okay.

We're about the same age, you know, it was fine. It was fine. You and Miley? Me and Miley. We're right there. Linked at the hearts and the minds forever. And it was like note for note. voluntary confinement rather than like the breakdown section yeah it was pretty good

it was a tribute it was the song I well that was the thing is I was like all right yeah let's can you delete this so we can use it yeah I think that was the first not the first song I ever wrote because I I had terrible hardcore bands when I was young but it was well I think it was the first it was the first it was the first time that I was like, all right, I'll let, I'll let this one go. All right. Thank you. It passed the Taylor Leibn's.

I think there's one song before. There's one song on the Ruckus LP. But now that might have been after. That might have been after. No, it was. Yeah, we did that because of switching tongues. Right. The earthquake split song.

No, no, no. No, no. There's a song on the LP that you wrote the whole structure. Oh, that was way after. Yeah, okay. That's what I thought. Way after. That song's good too

I don't even remember Life's End Dang it's a good guy I don't know Yeah I think the demo was better Did you re-record the two songs From the demo session

For the 7-inch No No So there is no No no sorry They were re-recorded for sleep therapy Yes So there is no

Pure 7-inch recording technically What's insane and inhumane I'll get you I'll get there We're working our way there. Okay. So when the demo was recorded, we played many shows over the next year or so. But before that, this was like the first time I'd ever attempted like viral marketing of some kind.

Because I remember posting on the Bridge 9 board. It was like, check back here on March 15th for a surprise. And people kept the threat going until March 15th. It's pretty cool. Just to see what was going to happen. And it was the Twitching Tongues demo. And a lot of people were like, and like, shockingly, the response was like, hey, good job, guys.

Good job, kids. Yeah. Because I was 18. It's pretty bad. It's not great. It's out of tune. Yeah. That's kind of charming, though, you know?

That's why I didn't want to fuck with it. That was why, like, so everything else on this reissue got a remix. Yeah. Including the typo cover, which is a different session. Yeah. But the demo is like, let's not touch it. Yeah, don't touch it. Because it's kind of a time capsule.

Oh, I think that's cool. Yeah. And so, so it sounds the way it sounds. What am I going to do? I'm going to take, like, vocals out of, on top of out of tune guitars and tune them and fix them? No, it's not going to happen. It's not worth it. So whereas I think sleep therapy got like a fucking like director's cut.

It got a, it got an open heart service. It's got a new sequence. There's a new song. in the middle of we'll get there we'll get there yeah yeah but like whereas the tape is just here it is it still sounds bad um everything else sounds good yeah um but you know people the response was good online it was good we played a couple shows that were not very good for us people didn't know what to do with us and that's fine not clear mosh parts like i hate god crowbar slow doom parts instead of like mosh mosh yeah

Like, da-da-da-da-da. Yeah. So we had to train people what to do over time. You know what I remember? You know, it was great. A nice memory, a friend of the show, Corey Williams. Corey, if you're listening. Corey got in a motorcycle accident at one point.

Do you remember that, Taylor? I think I do, yeah. And when Corey, like, woke up, the first thing he tweeted was, I'm alive. Twitching tongues is dope. Whoa. Really? So that was like, it was like, my guy, like this dude,

I look up to creatively is doing great. Yeah. And he likes my new band. It was pretty cool. Yeah, that was a jam-packed post for sure. Jam-packed, dude. That was probably a straight-up MySpace bulletin, wasn't it? It had to.

No, 2010, Twitter was, Twitter was a thing. Twitch and Tons was MySpace. So we were, and that's my next note here. Warriors Will Rain came out on Myself. Oh, boy, did it ever. Oh, yeah. I was all, that was probably on my profile, I'll tell you what. But that was 2009, just to put it into.

Right. Yeah. Facebook's wasn't like really pop until 2011. No, Facebook was, was. But like everybody had both still. Everybody had both. Yeah, like you could check, checking Facebook was an imperative. Facebook at the time was Twitter.

It was college only too. This is what I'm doing. You were writing a sentence and that was your Facebook. It was like Colin, Colin is that wing, like at waste? Stop is like every day I get at like your memories of me at Wingstop. It'll be like at Wingstop with Taylor Young in blue and Nate Bluvel in blue, you know. Yeah. Just some ice cream.

Just yeah, just got like like a straight up like a picture of an ice cream cone with like a brown filter on it. Yeah. And like awesome day. Yeah. But we were peak Myspace music era. and MySpace music was really that was like where you put that was band camp

that was the only thing it was that like Spotify don't don't hold shit compared to what MySpace music did for some bands yeah yeah and it did a lot for us and that's how beat down hardware heard us who then and a guy a fellow named Tony

from West Germany he heard ruckus right yeah right and then but then as soon as he heard pushing tongues he was like snowballed to that, yeah. I have to do this too. That's awesome. So he wanted to do the demo,

but we had, so March 15th, the demo came out. Okay. We recorded what would become sleep therapy July, four months later. Wow. And we sat on it for two years. Sat on it for a while, but that's why. We worked

on vocals for probably eight months, though. It took a long time. Because like, the demo was pretty fast considering, all things considered being three songs. Demo was, like, as soon as we knew you could sing, we, we did it. And then I think we did the split song, the record split song that you're singing on. Didn't we do that first to be like, can you sing? The type of song? No, no, no, the song.

Oh, my mind. Like was that first? No. That came out in 2000, later 2010. It came out, but did we track it before that? Because I feel like that was the test of like, can Colin sing? Cool, yep, let's do the demo. I remember it both ways.

It was like, yes. Zabalba. Zabalba is in the, in the song doing the, oh, parts. Yeah. And I think they had already heard me sing. and we're still there when I was doing the rest of the song. And they're like, oh, he's going to do it, you know, like as they would. Well, but that's still just that song.

So I don't know if that song came before the Twishing Tongues demo or not. Recording stuff. Yeah, you'll have to check your files, huh? Fuck, I got a cable to do that. We played, we didn't tour in 2010. I have two questions. Hit me, dude. when you say that you worked on vocals for eight months,

give or take, what does that entail? Like eight hours a day, you're in there working on melodies or... This is... That was sleep therapy. I know, I know.

No, that would be like... You said you recorded it and sat on it. I want to know... Yeah, it would probably... It would be like we do vocals for a day. My voice would be dead. Decide we didn't like the song. Decide, we scrapped the entire thing.

There's a million layers on sleep therapy. Sleep therapy, like, comparatively to records I do now, has just as much shit on it. Just because it needed to. Well, it needed to because his voice wasn't super strong. I didn't know how to tune. So it was like, all right.

So the thing we would do to mask it is do a million layers of something that he couldn't sing that well. And then it would sound cool. It would kind of chorus, affect it a little. It really would. Yeah. It was a good trick. It was. And it worked.

But it's like, in retrospect, we should have just pitch corrected it. But we were, we were stubborn about that. And it wasn't because you didn't know how to do it. It was because we, we had like a, you know, I want to know that you can do it. We had a thing about it. We had a complex about it about being like a band with no pitch correction. That's a block, up until the end, there never has been any. Never?

For better or worse? Never. Real? That's pretty impressive. Yeah. Well, it's all. Some would be like, well, brother. You should have.

Yeah. I mean, but, but even, you know, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm certainly not the best thing in the world, but I'm also not tone deaf. And I've never really heard anything that was particularly... Well, the thing is we redid stuff until it was constantly. Until it was right. Good. And even that, like, listening to sleep therapy is difficult for me now.

Yeah, I'm sure. Very tough for me to do. It's better, though, like the new version... Oh, I agree. I mean, you know how to mix. Well, that was the thing is I was like pushing through frequencies. This is a reason a lot of people probably didn't like us is because, I'm literally pushing painful frequencies through the mix to get your vocals to cut through

the heavy guitars. And on this new mix, it's like pull back so your vocals are sitting in it. It's balanced. You know, it doesn't hurt. It's balanced. So when did insane and inhumane come out? So July 2010, we recorded sleep therapy. What would become sleep therapy.

It was just like a session of songs. It was nine, 10 tracks because it was eight songs. an instrumental, which we'll talk about in a minute, and the typo cover. No, no, Forever My Queen, the Pentegram cover. Right. And it was, and I was the first thing we finished because it was kind of the first thing at,

like, fell from grace we already had. So it was like, okay, we have our pro immortal form. That's how we looked at it. It was like, that's our promo form. Our track one is in the tank ready to go. Okay. which we didn't want to burn. Didn't want to burn that on the demo.

Not understanding that you can fucking re-record songs on an LP. Yeah. But we didn't. We didn't do that. We only did it once. And it was on the second LP. Loveless. Well, loveless we did also.

That's just a split, though. You still can't find that. Right. It's on our YouTube. I took it down in preparation for something. later. Huh? So insane and humane was the first thing that was finished.

And we put that on MySpace, just kind of on a whim. Yeah. The way the bands do, we're kind of ahead of our time. I thought, I thought Nick was in right away. Nick Heitman? Yeah. Hey. No, because you went on tour.

You went on tour. You went on. tour with Alpha and you were showing people the song. And he was like, I'll put that out. That did happen. He was with TUI, but the song was just, the song was out. I don't know. Is that true? I promise. We put it on MySpace on a whim as bands do today with singles. It was just like, hey, we're going to keep our band going.

Here's a single on our MySpace. In one day, it became our top song. Wow. So I remember these, these little metrics where you go, oh, okay, something's happening here. I don't remember that at all. It's really funny to think that you were in Europe with Alpha Omega. And I have right here you writing Taylor Young is a bitch on a riso flyer that I took from a wall and half with me. You kept that.

I have it. That's awesome. I thought, should I grab it? You could cut it. Hurry up. It's literally here. Go ahead and talk. Oh, I'll cut.

Don't cut. I have to cart the forehead out of it. No. just leave this all in. Because, boy, does he look stupid. I didn't realize he had a Vermak shirt on. It's a cool shirt. I think it looks like a bootleg because the front looks like something else.

Probably, yeah. Bootleg ass. Oh, maybe it is a real one. I can see him at one good shirt. Is that a real shirt? Is that a real? Is that a boot? It's real. Oh, wow. That's why the necks all fucked up. It's one of the great shirts.

Truly, dude. this one says printed in 87 on it and there was one on eBay November 16th 1987 like my birthday Wow it had the date date date the full date the full date

yeah we got to start doing that literally never seen that before Taylor is a bitch so funny Colin so funny isn't he so funny who was here what's the top say Ponderosa was here that's

so it's funny This was a, oh, here's your, you're at also, Colin. Yeah, that was what I was tagging all over. All of it. So what's funny is Nachos was touring right before. So John Caution went by Ponderosa for briefly. He used to have nicknames. It says Byron Luters was here.

The drummer from Wicked Nachos, his name is Brian. And one day he just started using my name. So, like, his Instagram name is Byron Luters. Just because. and I had He had to be on Facebook And my dad one time was like Who is this?

Is this like a relative? I don't like he was like Did you find a relative? No it's just a weird dad Just a weird guy down out of my room Where were we? We were talking about Oh and San Juan was our top played song on my screen

And you were showing people when you were in Europe That's why I grabbed the finger On that first US tour I did I showed to everybody Trapping Dries listen to this. Cool hand. Listen to this.

You should have. Listen to this. To the point where it was like a meme on the tour where we would be staying, like every band would be staying somewhere. Yeah. And some like Justice or Jared or something would be like, yo put that song on.

Which song would it be? Insane and Humane. Okay. And they would play the whole thing and just like listen to it, calm and then just obliterate wherever we were staying. really just when the mosh hits when the when the when the pit part hits I remember distinctly like a like stack of newspapers like um yeah that was that was so that was cool that was like oh okay

the cool guys like it too yeah finally you know they're getting it martin very early on became a you know a silent supporter of sorts not silent he made the logo he made our logo he made our the little cross. He did the first shirt. It was, yeah, it was the triangle shirt. Triangle shirt. And that cross was just a little part of the bottom of it. And we were like, what's that there?

Can you send me just that? Can you cut that out? I think that I think you did something. What was, I have off key since 2000. That's a later shirt. That's a later shirt. I thought I have. The typo logo?

I do have the typo logo one. That's our first. shirt. Oh, I have it. Nice. There you go. Oh, off key was a coat orange tour, wasn't it? Yeah. There's a black version and then we did a green version online. First two shirts were

the black shirt with the typo logo. And then gray shirt with the demo art on the front back. I have a green typo one. That was like third or four. That was like fourth or fifth.

Fuck. Yeah, black was the first. It looks terrible. It looks crazy now, but it's kind of badass. All the other versions were better. Yeah. You're like, they didn't know what they were printing when they did.

Yeah. I wore this shirt today because I bought this Marauder shirt when I was 15 years old. This is like the first cool shirt I ever bought in my life. Oh, that's a good feeling. So I've had this shirt

since before Twitching Tongues was a band. Fun. I bought this shirt on the Disharmonic Rust Tour at Sabas. While we were watching Home Alone. I literally bought it on eBay. I bought this on eBay with my eBay account. My username on eBay?

Yeah. Twitching tongues. Who! Predates the band. Team Prozac. Oh, dude. I got my carnivore test press from him. Where is he today?

He sold all this stuff. He's gone. He doesn't have anything else up anymore? I can't imagine. He had 10 shirts a day going up. Yeah. He must. have worked at like for blue great europe huh he was a legend man team prozac kept the kept the gang

fitted up i have a few shirts for i got my wolf moon shirt from him i got a lot of shit from him before peter died that we should probably talk about that way cheaper uh dude my every shirt other than my wolf moon shirt every type of negative shirt i ever bought was sub 20 dollars no shit yes just they were they were worthless I was my like in high school. The real shirt of the first shirt that we made with the type O. That's why we did it because that shirt was so fucking sick. Well, and that shirt is like, I've never seen that.

Me neither. Since. Which one is it? It's literally type O giant logo negative. And then the Express yourself. Yeah, the Express yourself on the back. So I think it's the first version of the Express Yourself shirt. That's like a 500,000 shirt.

I have the Type O big logo. in a long sleeve, it says Brothers and Blood with the Slow Deep and Hard like triangles on the back? It's type O logo negative? Yeah. Whoa. I've never seen another one. Is it green? Yeah, it's black and green. Well, my shirt is, the shirt is green. The print is white.

Oh, dude. I'm telling you, I've never seen this thing before. Team Prozac had that. I remember it because they have the expression. Yeah, yeah. How, I mean, this is relevant because obviously you were pulling aesthetically from from Type O.

So like, would you look at shirts and reimagine and... Yeah, that was all we did. Yeah. That's all we do now. It was everything, yeah,

I know, that's all we do now, but everything we did the time was like, okay, Typo did this, so we should do that. It was also just like a thing

where like, typo negative shirts look like they are, could be the heaviest band in the world. Yeah. Like, you look at a typo shirt

and you're like, that band is good. Yeah. I've never heard it before. That band's got to be good. can know. The artist, but it wasn't what you thought.

Some people are like, oh, this band's got to be the hardest shit in the world. My girlfriend's girlfriend. When I first, that was my first experience with them, was that video on like Fused TV or whatever. MTVX.

Yeah, and I was with older hardcore dudes who were like, that guy is the guy who wrote like AF records. And I was like, yeah, it sucks. Like, what do you? Okay.

You know? I would say it's my least favorite. favorite song on that record for sure. I've grown to actually love it. I think it's so fun. But at the time when I saw it, I was like, I'll get, this isn't Junjun, get the fuck off. Oh, what? My girlfriend's girlfriend?

Yeah. Hell of a track. The bridge. Oh, what I'm saying. Then it was like, no. Woof. Yeah, come on. But so about a month after our demo came out, Peter dies unexpectedly.

So that was a crushing thing for us because it was like, we're this, in our minds, we're this tribute band. that's like our goal like maybe one day we'll even tour with them Tor yeah I thought he died in 11 no it was April 14th 2010 I've never been wrong about a date on this show it's actually true like go ahead Taylor do it this one look it up

it's fucking crazy Ace Edge would nut if yeah you're right good I was with that 2010 wow that was like that was a crazy thing yeah yeah yeah that was like that felt so I didn't know the guy I don't know anybody that knows the guy, but it felt so personal.

Because it was like, I just spent the year of my life, a year of our lives, like creatively modeling this thing after his work. I was on tour when he died with nails. And I remember Dan Weinrop calling me and being like, are you okay? And I think I was driving through like Salt Lake or something. And it started ailing. Wow. in April.

It's Salt Lake's outside of Salt Lake City. Yeah. And I'm like not giving a fuck driving through the hail because I'm like, and it's like, the van's starting to just like drift and I'm just like, don't care. He's dead. Dude, it felt so personal. What was the first typo you listened to after you found out that he died? I probably just went through all of it.

Yeah, chronological. The thing that made that I really didn't like October rest. Oh, interesting. At first. Yeah. And then the thing that turned me on typo and tech, like entirely was origin. Yeah. Because I thought the like crowd response was so cool.

It's like the way he didn't care was cool. The fact that he's like joking on a record is cool. Like the whole experience was like, damn, this might be the sickest thing I've ever heard. Yeah. And then I went back and I appreciated it. everything else because of the tongue and cheek takes me out of the parts I don't like. Yes. Right.

I can totally. There's no longer parts I don't like. I will say that. I would say that too. I like every moment. There is, I've brought this up before, but it's in the,

it's in Hey Pete on origin where, you know, we're a full, we're slow deep and hardened and then all of this fake live record in, where he says, you know, I caught my baby. I'm going to chop my baby down because I caught her fucking round.

And then he says, I really don't go for that shit. And it's so like, yeah, we know it's been two records worth of the same thing. And it's just such like a little throwaway. Like, I really don't like that. He's putting a period on it and then another one. Yeah. I don't like that you did that to me. But I got into typo after he passed away because we had

met Saba and Saba was truly the first like champion. So what's funny is I started getting into Type O as twitching tongues started kind of being my type O band. The heavy melodic band of my

peers too. It was before we really knew each other. I do Taylor. I didn't know you yet. Yeah, when I showed you sleep therapy in the van in Europe you the entirety of Farmer's Way was like shit sucks. We gotta get away from this guy. Yeah.

Cool, man. I don't think we said that. No, you didn't. But you were like, yeah, nails is really awesome, though. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't get it. Yeah, it's fine. I just...

I don't think people... A lot of people, I think, went back to sleep therapy after in love. Some people really latch to sleep therapy. A lot of people wanted us to be something else. Yes, for sure. And that's why Disarmony makes, like, no sense to some people. when reality to us it felt it did the whole thing felt like this gradual progression they wanted us to go more melodic you know like four years like us us touring with citizen

made sense in in people's minds yeah never made sense to me it didn't I wouldn't that I would do that today I think it would I think it would kill we actively declined Warp Tour we did decline Warp Tour which I think was a mistake possibly but it I think there was a lot of things we did to get in our own way. Yeah. Where it was like it always had to be, uh, cool to us. It never had to be. It was never about, um, playing to a lot of people.

Yeah. It was always like, no, no, no. We only want to play to these people. We pretty much. And then like those people were like, fuck you. Kind of. Kind of. Kind of.

We, we made like whenever you could make a good idea or like a good decision or a bad decision most of the time we made the bad decision. Huh. Yeah. Are you physically aware of what you're doing right now, Bo? Is this annoying you? No, I'm just wondering. I wonder if you're going to watch this back and be like, why was I doing, you know how? It's a mouse wrist pad.

That looks. Put it light down. It's for my wrist. Put the cookie down. Ow. Um, what the hell are we talking about? Warped toward. I don't know.

We said no. a warp tour. Yeah. What year would that have been? This was 2012. Pre and love? It was, it was whenever, Scott Lee was on board for about a year.

He was, I'll get your warp tour right now. Easy. And we were like, hell no. Yeah. What do we look like? Should have done it, man. I wonder.

I really wonder, because you, you would have had, you would have played the smallest stage. Yeah. And you would have not. We would have been in the shed's slot. Honestly, we were probably too small to do it.

And you wouldn't have been on a bus unless you split it and went into the red. Yeah, we might have been miserable. But you also may have made a lot of money just because you were doing that. It's hard to say. It is hard to say. I don't think that was the wrong decision. I just have a person who's done it at one time. Absolutely.

From that perspective, you know. If you had gotten the offer after in love, which to me, even after going back and listening to sleep therapy and stuff, in love, still has like the hooks. Yeah. In love is the one that got me. Preacher Man, the seven inch is actually the one that got me. But I think that got most people who, who wrote us off first time.

Yeah. Who didn't continue to write us off. And I hope when I say that I didn't get it, you don't take that as like, these guys don't know what they're too. You just didn't. Bo, I've told you you're Michael Hayes, you know. You're my Michael Hayes. I remember that from a week. Taylor, you're not familiar with this anecdote.

but there's a guy named Michael Hayes. He's a wrestling. He was a wrestler in the fabulous freebirds. And then he became a wrestling producer. And in every single WWE documentary about, I said this in the last week's episode, so I was going to hear it in there. But essentially, anything that ever worked,

they cut to him going, I didn't think it was going to work. Yeah, that was the whole name. That was Boe in this case. Because I listen to sleep therapy and I go, how did this work? You know? Ah. How like this, I'm, I probably like this less than anybody.

It's most of the lyrics. Because of my own performance. I think the songs rock. Songs rock. Lyrics funky. Funky. Dunky. It sounds like they were written by an 18 year old.

Yeah. I think sleep therapy has good lyrics. The song? The song. I think sleep therapy has good lyrics and I always just liked that song. Still do. And I always liked that the. The verse is the first take you ever did.

Oh, the verse? The verse of sleep therapy was the first take, the only take we ever did. It was like, damn, nailed it. Next. See, that's the thing I hear and I go, how did we let that happen? It was just so good. To me, there were so many. I think that you did one take and we let it sit for a long time.

And I think we just got married to it. Maybe I got married to it. you hear the World War Live version, it's like, oh, there's the key. Why didn't you do that? Sort of. Yeah, but at the same time, there's aspects of the World War Live one that it's like almost grading because you're like singing one note the whole time for some things like that's the note.

I know, I know, I know. But I just like, I liked how weird it was. You do this thing in one. I just like, I like weird stuff that sticks out. You know, we could be playing the music. I can edit that, you know? You know, I know that's a lot of work for you. I'm just realizing like, you guys own it.

Yeah. You can fucking. But it's out there. You can go find it. Yes. People are out now. You can order it too. Yeah.

I guess we're almost to sleep therapy. I will say before sleep therapy came out, we did our first tour. Taylor, do you remember what this was? Ruckus, twitching tongues minus. No. Ruckus. tongues in Europe. Was before that?

Twishing tongues toured Europe before we toured the United States at all. Really? Yes. Yeah. Did you play the home a lot? What did you figure like, like this was like, typo is huge in Europe. No. Tony wanted to bring both bands. Beat down hardware wanted to bring both bands. At the time there was

one member difference. Yeah. It was one guy. So like the, there's a picture of the bands on the back of the 10 inch split. Yeah. There's a, there's a twitching tongues ruckus 10 inch split that is just a grimlock cover and a typo cover. No, it's all the ruckuscovers. Was it really?

Yeah, it's Bad Brains, Grimlock, Agnostic Front. I can't go get it because I'm not wearing pants. So I can't confirm. I could go get it. Do I need to go get it? No, no, no. I believe you. I can look at discogs too.

It's fine. I believe that. I think that sounds right because the typo cover was the length of two songs. We were like, let's put. multiple songs on it. There's only three test presses for that. You still got yours, Taylor? Yeah.

Those are pretty cool. I might have sold Audrey. One of my, one of my regular ones, or the only regular one. I gave mine to Hunter Winstead, friend of the show. You gave him the test?

Yeah. No, not the test. I gave him the, I might have given him a test, honestly. Hunter, did I give me the test? Yeah. I can't remember. Yeah, there's three.

of those and those were made by just a guy in France who like owned a pressing plant or something and just wanted to make them 50 copies of stuff. He made he made 53 10 inches for us. He told us on that tour and we were like, okay, sure, that sounds cool. We'll just do a limited record. And then we picked him up. Wow. Yeah. Really?

Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah, that is actually. I don't know how that worked at that time. Wait. Or, yeah, did we? I thought like the idea was. No, I think we emailed about it before.

the tour and he was like, I'll have him ready for the tour. And we had a couple. No, that's not true. No, they all picture on the tour. They all sold online. Yeah, yeah. They, I think the idea for the split happened while we were in Europe. Yeah, some French guys.

And then we got home and we did it. That was pretty good. Was beat down hardware in Germany? Yes. Oh, yeah. Munster. Monster. Yeah.

Tony. At the place we played. Remember, he came to the show. Yeah. No, the place we played in Munster with the bowling out. arm's way and nails played there oh yeah he came to that show came to that was when that was when rick and travis were like comatose because they had to eat all the weed before we went back yes they were he's a hard mosher he's a hard mosher he's a hard mosher but he's like scared of stuff

he loved he he showed me the ropes at the german burger king one time you know yeah what do you mean like oh double double wapa is it's so good Yeah. But then he'd be like, he'd be like mosh and real hard and be like, yes, but we cannot go over there this time of night. Which is probably right. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what monster.

So we get home from that. And at that time, he put out the CD with insane and humane, voluntary confinement, and the demo. Oh. Which people considered like official discography for so long. Which we, that drove us crazy. Yeah. Remember that? But it was just like a collection of stuff.

Yeah. Wasn't supposed to be a record, but it, because it was the second thing we ever put out, people were like, no, yeah, I love that insane and humane record. And we never thought of it like that. It was just a single that had bonus tracks. So yeah, that was, it was a single. And like, so Photo Booth Records, Nick Heitman. Uh-huh.

Nick Heighton, Photo Booth Records, O-O-O-1 was the Tiger's job. The Tiger's job self-titled, I think. 02 was the insane and humane 7-inch, which was only insane and humane voluntary confinement. And the cover. The cover was on there? That's the only place the cover is.

I guess that makes sense, huh? Which cover? The pentagram cover. The pentagram cover. Oh, okay. And he made us extra test presses to sell on that tour. Yeah.

So we sold test presses as our records. on that tour. Wow. So if you have one of those, that's great. We'll go back to, this is long after

sleep therapy was recorded. So we'll go back to kind of the beginning, tracking and recording sleep therapy. Yeah, yeah. What do you remember, Taylor? Writing and recording. Writing and recording. Writing it was so fast.

Because the demo, the demo, we used two of those songs. I remember writing insane and humane, like, in my room, just you and me with an acoustic guitar. Because you remember me, me doing the beginning riff and how dumb it was with me playing it. Boo, boo, boo.

Yeah, it was so stupid. You're like, give me that, you fucking idiot. Here's how you play. Well, and then we added more parts to it. Yeah. And then the Mosh part was. Mosh part was our first science project, I feel like. Yeah, I don't think we like, and we didn't like take it from.

anything. No. The structure of the song is definitely like based around this love where it was like calm, calm, heavy. And then big, huge mosh. Big huge mosh. And then what other songs are on it? The two part song is like definitely a coheed nod.

Yeah, I loved cohesion. That's true. Yeah. It was also every time we did a part one, part two, soft song. into heavy song it was a suicide note reference yeah which we did a lot uh voluntary confinement was just on the seven inch uh seven inch sleep therapy so a stigma wait we got a shout out something huge right okay yes this is this is big so stigmatism comp song yeah lyrically garbage just just like if you're listening to this today and you're like well how can you stand behind these layers

i don't they're terrible i was 18 years old i don't know nothing about nothing i apologize you knew heartbreak at the time and the only way to express it was porn. My dick fell off. That was the only thing I knew to say. It was heartbreak, but it was a heartbreak in a very specific way. I remember walking somewhere with you, Taylor, and I can't remember if it was on the Nails tour

or if it was on our, the Twitching Tongues European tour. We were in England, and you were just talking about how Colin wrote, like very God what did you you didn't say anything disparaging but you just wrote like

yeah he just kind of writes like crudely yeah I mean he it was just kind of like song first lyrics after yes not really

looking into things just being like this is cool no I mean I we were I was a student of Pete's deal but at the same time I'm not questioning the things I'm going, does it sound cool? Yeah.

Does it, I think the first time I was ever like, no, go write it again was the last song on In Love. Yeah. Where you had really positive lyrics over a, it was a dreary song. Fridid, this is really funny. Fridid at first was a song about how much I loved my dad. I love your dad. It was basically literally like, like an emotional song about how much I loved our dad. Elver the darkest coldest.

Over done. Yeah. And that's why the lyrics to Frigid are all my favorite lines from Monotheist, the whole album, reshaped into a song. Really? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So we wrote them.

We threw it together like the day of recording. Frank's dad is here. It's awesome. I basically didn't check him lyrically until that moment. Where there were things that were I was like, what are you saying here? cool. Yeah. But there was another one where distance clause was a song about was about Pete Steele at first.

Mm. And it was and it we, I know it would have been cool. But that song fucking rocks, dude. I put that on today on my drive home. And it was just like, I think distance clause as a song like transcends us a little bit.

Oh. Huh. Bad to the bone as a mosh part. Yeah. Well, that was the thing. We wanted to do a little bit of tongue and cheek. And we didn't always follow through.

We did it a little bit, I would say, on every record. World War 5, for sure, tongue and cheek. Yeah, when we did, we were hysterically laughing when we did the mosh parts lower at the end. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember. Like, that was fun. Well, no, and the lyrics are just, you know, they're absurd. They're badass. I would say disharmony, insincerely yours, even the video.

Hilarious. So I think everything had a little bit of tongue of cheek. there. Whereas this one was like what the fuck song are we talking about? Distance clause. Disance clause, yeah. It's just like, oh, what can we do that's ridiculous? Let's put it. Bad the bone

was a mosh part. It's badass. That's the kind of question I want to be asking today. And then break it down more, which we got the broken down more from a Black Breath song. Is that true? Yeah. I don't remember that. You tell me more. It's the fucking and um...

did, dun, bed did, and, uh, oh, right. Dan,

we just love that song. So it's not taken from that because it's, we were already doing bad of the bone, but we were like, let's, let's match this tempo.

So people now, they, people now go pit to pit. Yeah, it was not common. Or, Black Breath kind of went pit to pit to pit. They went to pit to pit there.

Yeah, yeah. It was, it was, I would say, frowned upon at the time. Well, I was moshing. I remember the first time I threw a spin kick at the cobalt and Travis laughed at me.

So it was like there were a lot of things that were like, huh? To some people. That Black Breath song, just before we change topics, they accidentally, there's like an accident in the song that they kept. Do you know what I'm talking about? That song? Yeah. Yeah. So like the dent, dun, dent, dend, da.

There's a part where when the other guitar doubles it, It comes in early and they like leave it in. Oh, I love that. I thought that was on purpose. I thought it just kind of hung over on purpose. It's not. But that's one of the best parts of the rat. It's amazing.

It's such an incredible. If that's an accident, that's an incredible thing. It's such a little thing too. And it like makes that part. I don't meet a lot of purveyors of Black Breath these days just because it's, they've been gone for so long. Yeah.

Ian Shelton is is like, yo, first two, fucking game over. I would, I could see that. Yeah, I would, I would hope that he would ride for the hometown heroes. Yeah. Dude, Black Breath. Black Breath. Black Breath. Yeah.

Y'all was running shit. So ahead of their time. Yeah. I think, honestly. They should come back. They should come back. I think they're due for a comeback. I do remember the one Sound and Furious set that they played where they looked like they

were visibly bummed to be there. Oh. Yeah. Because I think every band that tried to be metal wanted out of hardcore, which to me, I never liked that. sure I was always if we were ever going to go do metal stuff like signing the metal blade we wanted we never wanted to take both feet out yeah hardcore no that's that's embarrassing yeah never and then that's when it doesn't work for most bands you know if you don't or if you

do if you do if you take all your feet out and you do other bullshit yeah you lose it you lose yeah you got to stay in yeah you got to remain spin kick in the air let's talk about the instrumental a little bit Taylor okay well it's net can I can I can I pick his brain about guitar stuff yeah do you remember what you recorded with um it was an a piece of shit two hundred dollar agile guitar oh my god the agile stock pickups holy shit um so they're just garbage yeah straight in to a 51 5050 with a 212 cab that I still have where I ran I actually ran the

Because at the time the studio wasn't done Yeah so I was sitting in my room Tracking on my laptop With the amp And cab outside my room Facing Collins room Blasting into his room And it was just straight

Yeah I think you were in there with me for some of it but you were probably playing video games while I just did work. I was playing Mass Effect 2. So the, yeah, it was straight into 50150 on the rhythm channel. The green? Crunch and break. No, no.

Yeah, green. That's green, yeah. Blasted up, probably maxed out. One mic on it. I don't. Actually, I should remember this because I just remixed it. Now, you know what? I do think I had two mics on it.

Because I did not have a hard time playing with the guitar tone. Yeah, it just sounded dope, right? You have, as I've said before, and as the pit merch states, some of the best guitar tones. So I was very curious. I try. At the time, I was very ignorant. I think that was the only amp I had. Got it for 500 bucks off Craigslist.

Do you remember, was it the black letter? Or do you remember which? It's a block letter. I still haven't. Yeah, yeah. I also don't get rid of things. generally. Yeah, I mean, I'll get rid of pedals all day, but guitars and amps, like, I'll never.

I got them all. Yeah. Got it. So, yeah, I use that. Do you remember how many layers you did? Just left and right. And then some leads. Yeah.

And I think I did everything with that same setup, maybe mixed in a little differently. um base i don't think i had a proper bass amp i think i had to borrow keiths i think you did borrow keiths and i i think i actually remember doing the sleep therapy LP and the rookess LP base all in one shot while it was like dude was like a day and a half so it was like i got this i might as well yeah yeah but i definitely so we went on tour in Europe, Harmsway and Nails.

And when we came home, Nails had about a thousand bucks. Total. Huge. And we bought an amp with the band money. Oh, the orange amp. We bought the orange amp.

Dude, legendary amp. It still have it also. Base? I got that in the fire. No, it's both. Oh. You won that in the fire? I got that in the fire.

so I um we redid bass after with that because it was like all right I'm gonna try this thing out but we kept that ruckus base and the ruckus base stayed

because it has no dude there's the the boom boom boom boom boom that one it's just clean it's clean as fuck I think it was a he just it was just an an acoustic or something crazy the brand

um yeah I remember was a huge deal when you guys got that orange and it was like yo we're we doing base with an orange head it was a huge deal for all of us like Todd was like can't believe we have an orange head because orange got hooked you guys up right yeah we got that amp for like 1800 bucks which was cheap at the time yeah how can that be well because we got an endorsement so that was an endorsement but which amp was it do you remember it's a thunder vera 200 still have it and it was like It was like nails.

We ordered it from orange because we got black tolex. It was so funny how that worked because it was like you, John and Todd equally owned the amp. Yeah. So it was like it was legit like a shared custody. John would just come get it and use it for other shit for Feltollo and then. But otherwise it lived here anyway because we would practice here. Wow. That was a huge dude.

The orange amp was a huge deal. Yeah. That's so funny. I think that was the only base amp I had for years too. It was. And then eventually you got an SVT. Eventually I got an SVT and then I got another one. Did you ever use the Model T for base?

No. Because I remember that was a big acquisition too. Probably could have. Yeah, that was I traded Greg Anderson from Sun. Because he runs Southern Lord. I traded him as partial payment for his Zabalb record. Fuck yeah. Yeah.

Greg Anderson noted creator of noted and remembered. Yeah. Wow. Which is like, I'm telling you, I do not go one day without saying it. Yeah, you say it a lot. But I like it.

Every single day. That actually is one of the only amps I did trade. But it was an even trade for a fresh new built Dean Costello. Oh, and you know that was worth it. Oh, dude, I use it

literally every record now. It's so sick. It's a great trade. And it's like we got our, well, you can hear that Model T on the Taylor Young STL tone humpack. You can hear that. So I got my Model T forever there. I've got that. I've used it all the time.

I've got that. The other thing is that it is on, we did use it on in love. So the Model T is eternal on records. It's immortalized. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. It was like the boost track.

There's a couple, there's a couple songs with four guitars. Yeah. But it's not the whole time. It comes in on choruses, comes in on like any single string part, things like that. What do you use for bass for Dead Body, that solid state?

Yeah, Quilter, Quilter 802. Gotcha. Things dope, dude. Yeah. Let's talk about this newly released instrumental song, Taylor. Yeah.

Yes. Now titled Somnus. Yes. It had many titles over time. Many titles and many versions What were the titles? Like other Latin It was Latin.

It was always Latin. Yeah. It was always like a thing in Latin. Yeah. So this instrumental was a thing that we were like so psyched on and so proud of. Thought it was amazing.

We thought it was so sick. But it became, we thought it was so good that we had to leave it off, restructure it and turn into a song. Oh, yeah, yeah. And then every time we love,

there's no law B-side. Yeah. that is like made of that song that fucking sucked that we just could not make work and then we were like we should have fucking put it on there I see well no so now I also think no it got restructured so many times that the remnants of

like it became good luck and then there were no parts left from the original song no because it was good luck was its own thing always yeah because there were demo There was like a demo session with the get it again. Get it again. That's another B side that nobody's heard. Well,

the end of that ended up being. The floor. Yeah. That's right. Which is like that's kind of the only time we've ever done that. Pulled from demos. Pulled from an old part that nobody's heard. But yeah,

well, this. This we tried. Yeah. And failed to make it. Like there's like a four minute version of it. It just feels eternal. There's nothing. good about it.

So we... Lyrics were bad. Yeah. Just like nothing was working. We buried. We buried it. And then so when we decided to do the remix, we were like, let's just put it on and we'll put it back where it was intended to go.

Where it was supposed to be. Yeah. And I showed people this song in 2010. Yeah. And it's hard. It made the record feel more complete. And now like with Forever My Queen at the end, it's a 10 song album. Yeah.

So it's weird. It's like weird that we were, because now we would know like, oh, we want to turn this in a real song. Okay, we'll do that later, but still use it as an instrumental. And then it's a fun callback. And then it's awesome. It's even cooler. Should have had hindsight. I will say that I'm going to, we're going to burn a little bit.

Somnus is the only thing I added anything to on these remixes. It just got a little update and enhancement. I added a little guitar thing and a little synth thing and that's it. Just a little juice to be like, okay, here's what we would have done. Yeah,

like if, like we knew immediately that we weren't going to finish it because it was like, all right, so here's this working version, but we'd like it too much. It's not going to go on the record. So we just never even thought about finishing.

But it's, it's so weird that like without it, like with it now, it makes the whole record kind of makes sense. Well, just feel if it has a better flow. Yeah. The darkness that's supposed to be there

is kind of there. or more or sleep therapy really ended up being the like the sleep therapy and the last song are like the only two dark songs dark songs when it's like that's we thought that's what the record sounded like yeah it felt like the aesthetic for the record is dark yeah interesting um it really wasn't yeah but it's because we were like we were so young when this was even recorded that by the time it like this did not come out until April 2012. Why am I getting choppy? Am I getting choppy?

Yeah, a little chopy. The record did not come out officially until April 2012, which is, well, there's some more stuff for that. There's definitely some more stuff for that.

But even before that, Taylor. Yeah. First of all, we finished the record in what? March, April, 2011. I feel like we had an actual master. August 2011,

but it was probably done. Had to be earlier. I don't think we had anything else tracked. I think we were fiddling with it. I can tell you why I know it was earlier. Because we played Sound and Fury 2011. Yes. And before Sound of Fury,

I sent this thing to every label. Every label you can think of can look in their email inbox from me and find a funny. little email written by 18 year old Colin. 19, actually, by the time this was done. The thing is that there were a lot of versions of the record because

every time I would do a remix of something, like the version of In Lovellors, sorry, the version of insane and humane and voluntary are not the versions that are on the album. Same takes, but the mix is completely different. Maybe not even completely different, maybe a little different. But once

we knew it was done and like had the artwork and stuff, I zipped it up. I I zipped it up and I sent it to every label, every single one. The only one that responded to me was Napalm Records. Do you remember that, Taylor? Yeah, they were like, no. Yeah, Napalm Records was like, can you send us a photo of the band? And we sent a photo of the band and they said, we cannot offer you a collaboration with

Napalm Records at this time. Yeah, because you are a bunch of children. Yeah, it was insane. But we played Sound and Fury and then labels were lining up at our table. Is that true? Yes. There were several that I sent it to that then walked up to the table like, hey, guys, let's do this. But we had already signed to Ice Cream Records.

We had already done it. Where is Ice Cream from? New York and Belgium. Yeah. Lawrence. I'm going full Joste now. Shout out Lawrence. Pardon this interruption.

It's what not time. We got the second ever hardlore whatnot tomorrow. I uploaded so much stuff. Did you really? I already got pre bids going. You do? You're slacking, brother. That's fine.

I got to build the anticipation. They're going to be like, what does Colin have today? I can't believe it. I know, but it's Friday, April 27th at 8.30 p.m. EST. Right? Nope. Friday, April 28th. Yeah.

At 8.30 p.m. EST. Yes. Please join us. It's an event. Every single month, it's an event, these whatnot things. They're basically hour, two hour long, live hardlore episodes. It's the only place that that can happen for now, you know? Yeah.

But it's a lot of fun. We have stuff for sale, stuff from our past, stuff from various bands, stories. We have hard lore stuff. Hello. The only place to get the band Polar Bear shirt for now. I got a fresh quarter of black ones. You would not believe how gorgeous this thing looks in black. This is the last gray one.

Ironically, we're both wearing, like, respective colors showing off. But Collins got new black ones. I don't even have one. They look incredible. So please join us tomorrow.

Click the link in the description. Hard lore. Code hard lore. Click it. You get 15 bucks off for first purchase. Come on. Don't miss it. It's also Manscape Time.

Wow. You know what this month is? April is testicular cancer awareness. I was going to say it's Ball Cancer Month. It's Ball Cancer Month. And Manscaped has this limited edition purple, which is the color for testicular cancer awareness. And we've been using various stuff.

We talk about this all the time. You know how it is. Yeah, yeah. I use the foot duster and the body wash every day. I am very excited to get a new bottle of the body wash. You know, I'm all about the crop preserver, prop preserver and the crop reviver.

Keeps my balls. You would never know that my balls were balls. No. Just that's my goal is so that nobody looks at me, like nobody can sniff me and go like this guy has balls. You know? Not just little love pillows. No,

just there's nothing there as far as they're concerned. Yeah. And whatever it is, smells delicious. You'll like the body wash kit. too because it comes with like this rubber scrubber thing the silicone thing not only is it fun it rhymes yeah rubber scrubber and thank god uh i don't know about you or anyone out there maybe you have you work out you sweat maybe you have a little body acne the scrubber is very good for that some people do some people

don't it happens to me not me build different i don't have that problem but maybe if you do this is the solution Go fuck yours. Get 20% off and free shipping with code hardlore at Manscape.com. That is 20% off and free shipping with code hardlore, all one word at Manscape.com. Make sure to spread the news and tell your buddies to check themselves during testicular awareness month. Exactly. Back to the episode. We signed to Ice Cream and he licensed the vinyl to Dirty Mick Records, who turned out to be,

like the man. He's incredible. But we had no idea that he was doing that. Meanwhile, Justin, yeah. Loudoun, closed casket. We had just kind of, we had grown,

we had developed this friendship with because Taylor loved his label. Well, we asked him and he said he passed. He passed at first. And then he had no money. He had no money at the time. Where his sleep therapy was his, his kill them all.

You know? It literally was. Yeah, but then, you know, here we are now, and he's, he did it. So thanks, Justin. We got the Wayne's World check from him. It's his. That's true. Got buffed that.

So Dirty Mick was the man, but it was like, damn, dude, if we knew we were licensing vinyl, we would have done it with closed casket, who we, that was like our dream was doing it with closed casket. Yeah. And that was just because we liked the, like, too, like, we loved the unholed. Holy records, you know. Incredible. But the record was taking.

And like in retrospect, no, it wasn't. But in our minds, ice cream was taking. We were basically high schoolers where six months was five years. Yeah, it might as well be forever. So there, we're like, okay, we have everything submitted in July. This will be out in October, right? Yeah, no. And they're like, no.

Yeah. So we have a tour booked. The sleep therapy tour. Sleep therapy record release tour six months before we were going to have records. So what do we do? What do you do? Well, we did two things. We did two things.

One, we put most of the songs. We put all the songs that weren't on the insane and humane seven inch on a tape and called it the sleep therapy tour tape. That's right. That was just hilarious. Yeah. And it's just the whole record. It's the whole thing. That's so funny.

But nobody's going to listen to the tapes and we kind of knew that. I don't think it was listenable. I don't think so either. I think you literally would put it on and it would sound like. Yeah. Dude, that's really funny because Harm's Way did the same thing. Did you also send the whole thing to Toxic Breeds Funhouse? No.

But before No Gods came out, we were doing a tour and we wanted to have something. We played a friend, our friend Steve Kane, he had a radio show. there was a kind of of a college radio show he would play hardcore and stuff. So we played no God songs live. And this was James with a cast because it was like the week that he had broken his arm. It was like all that period when,

so Andrew played with us because the two Johns quit. It was like a whole thing. The two Johns. And what did you say? The two Johns. Yeah, the two Johns. They both quit within the same week. And we had this like live tape as like,

hey, this is what's coming eventually. on closed casket kind of a thing. Wow. And it was fucking unlistenable. Like it sounds really funny. And nobody probably ever listened to it. I wonder if anyone ever loaded it up. Yeah.

Our sleep therapy tour tapes were confirmed, like, noise. Oh, ours wasn't noise. It was just like, I think Steve maybe recorded, like, a headphone out. Like, that was what made it to take. Something silly happened. That's awesome. But it was right around the same time. time, 2010.

2010. No. Late 2011 was when this would be happening. But we sent the record to Toxic Breeds Funhouse. Which was a blog spot that just like leaked stuff and put records. It was a blog spot ran

by now an alleged sex pervert. But at the time, it was like the place to get new hardcore music. Or old. Or old. Yeah. It was like it was just sort of.

Media fire. Media Fire City, dude. And I think this is what I remember and what I've been told. Until the day that the Fun House shut down, sleep therapy remained. The number one downloaded thing of all the time. Really? Of all time. So we leaked our own record.

Which is also like kind of like the marketing thing or was for a minute. When leaking was a thing. Yeah. Yeah. It was like, oh, people got this early. So other people would be excited about it. I don't think the other thing that people listening might realize is like most of the time if you're hearing any leaked things, it's 100% planned. Maybe.

No, there were a lot of press things. Press versions leaked early. You know, I've downloaded two leaked things that I know personally devastated the band. Really? Axe to fall. Okay. I remember, I remember like messaging converge, I think. When I found the link for Axifol,

yeah. And I was like, guys, this leaked. And I was just some kid. And they were like, where did you find this? What do you mean? And I'll tell you what my secret was back in the day. This is breaking news. This is how I found leaked stuff.

Went on Last FM. If the band had posted the track titles for their new album, I would search the track titles on Last FM. And if they had been scrobled one time by a guy, I would message the guy. No matter who it was. And this happened with Axe Fall, this is how I got Axe Fall early.

And Coheed and Cambria, Year of the Black Rainbow. I searched the song titles and people had, people had scribbled them. Album title. God, that band pisses me off. You don't even get it, dude.

Fuck. It's from a comic book that I've never read. So I would search those titles on there. I did this with every record, ever that came out that I like wanted to hear. I never knew that. And those two were those two were the ones where I was like, I just struck gold.

You guys are not going to believe this. Remember when blacklisted heavier than heaven leaked like unmixed? Oh, maybe. That was crushing. That's different than what I mean, obviously. Yeah. So wait, you would ask the guy. I would message whoever scrobled them on Last FM and be like,

can you send me the album? What does Scrabbled mean? Scrabbled means listened on LastFM. If they, like I've scrabbled AFI a thousand times this month, you know? Okay. That's what LastFM's stupid little word was. Okay. And I would, I searched every song on these records.

And if they had listened to him one time, I could see it. So I would message that guy and be like, I see that you listen to this. Could you send it to me? Two times it worked. And they, and two times they just said, yeah. Two times they just sent it because they got. they did the same thing and got it from somebody else. Copy.

Got it. But I remember a network of thieves. Oh, dude, straight up. The thieves guild blacklisted, heavier than heaven, leaked on a bridge line board unmixed. And people felt like people being bummed for them, I think drove up pre-orders. Do you remember how gnarly pre-orders were for heavy than heaven? It was the biggest record on earth. I have four copies.

I was 15. I didn't have any money, but I found money to order four copies of everything heaven, you know? Wow. It's crazy. That is crazy. So it worked. It was a thing. Yeah, toxic breed, I guess is a pervert now.

But the fun house back in the day, terrible name in retrospect. Yeah, he did the covers compilations, which we also did. We also put a stigmatism on there. And then we put the typo cover was like, it only existed there. Yeah. on the toxic breed blog spot. It's a really good cover. Which we also kind of recorded on a whim during a demo session.

Yes. For in love, there's no law. I like it because you guys do the origin stuff. That's, Taylor, that's not true. I remember it being, I remember it being, I remember it being, I'm testing the Model T. Let's record something. But time line wise, that don't add up. 2012.

It did not come out in 2012. Yes, it did. This is Collins. I don't believe it. Because it is, it is the Model T. And so it had to be after Oslo, Memorial Tiberty was recorded. I don't believe it.

Bo look up. Toxic Breed Costa Day diversion, Volume 1. No, was it, was it volume one? It was volume one. Track one. Is it still up? I'm just, I would hope so. Well, maybe Oslo Meyertae was recorded in 2011.

And released in 2013. I can see that. Yo, everybody was getting the Osloy Mori's a tattoo before the record was out. Remember that? Yeah. Well, what incredible promo for that thing. 2011. For the, what, yeah, what date?

April, kind of right now, April 19th tomorrow, last week. I'm too good. He's too good. You can't test me. You will lose. Okay, so 2011, I got the Model T. There you go. And we were, but I still think that we were probably demoing future songs.

We were. Because I'm pretty sure that the session for the for the gravity cover had a demo for a new song on it too. Yeah, that song was Eyes Adjust. And it went, for five fucking minutes. It was the worst song ever written.

Anyway, I like that gravity cover because you guys do the origin. You do like the live stuff, but then it has the breakdown. as the full structure. I don't know if that, I've yet to find a video of typo playing all of gravity. Yeah,

I mean, I think that the fucking, the literally like hair metal part didn't, they didn't care for it. Right away. Oh, the ending?

And that's like my favorite part of the whole. It's like it's like a Van Halen. It is like a Van Halen part. But that song feels like that part of that song feels like the culmination of the entire record about like, okay, I'm about to kill myself. That song is what made me a typo fan.

Yeah, same. That's why poetically it felt like this is the song we should do. Love You, Death is what made me go, oh, this band isn't just black number one. And then I went back and I was like, oh, this band is incredible. That was chronological. Did we end up doing one of the gang vocals as I'm just a fireball? Because that's what everybody thought they said. I'm just a fireball.

There's one on the cover that is that. That's a big case. It's so stupid. Yeah, because it was like, like people would comment that on stuff. Yeah. Because they literally thought that's what the song said. It's so stupid. Yeah, we definitely did.

There's one of them in there. See if you can point it out. Yeah. And then the whole thing, we like did it around putting that sample at the end of it. Yeah. Dude, the sample is unreal. There's a lot of samples. We did a bunch of samples of Pete just talking at the end of the cover.

Oh, yeah. And then the ending sample, yeah. awesome things badass and then it just cuts and then it's like spine chilling that was one thing where I was like we did good we we yeah you know what yeah 2011 does make sense because I also think you guys in your fucking dates I think that that was one of the first times we tracked drums in the studio in the studio yeah because the studio yeah the studio was didn't get finished till 2011. I remember tracking the drums because that was the first time I did the thing where I was like, okay, I have to play a really long cover song. I've never done that before. How do people do this?

So I just wrote on a big piece of paper like how many times each part happens in ways that I would understand and like seven count to seven. They do this count to eight. Wow. I don't know music terms to this day. I still don't know shit. So I played drums on that. And there's only one. real like structural error but it sounds cool was it that we played something too long or like did something too early or something I don't know yeah it didn't matter because there's

every structure every part was too long to begin with or something yeah exactly well it's it's good cover that's we're getting towards the end of the sleep therapy era here I but I feel like well then there's a release and then and then the stuff we did around the do the record release show yeah what was the record release. So sick.

We played Dirty Mick Records which was a store. It was basically like a tiny record store in Long Beach. Yeah. Where the bill was Twitching Tongues, EZAC DJing. Yeah. So like my, my one memory

of the Twitching Tongue's record release, playing to 15 people was EZAC at the door being like, and it was like, damn, this is a dream. This is incredible. It was crazy that because the vibe of it being, 15 people was kind of like, oh, bummer. But at the same time, I didn't have a bad time.

No, it was fun. It was like, oh, I think we were looking at the record for the first time, too. That was the day we saw them and we saw that. So the insert was supposed to be a poster. Oh, yeah. It's like, and the, it's smushed down to a, to a wrath. So I can't open it. But it's, it's, it was supposed to be a big, like 18 by 24 poster and they just

squashed it down to square. Oh, no. So the dimensions of the insert are. completely fucked up. Yeah, if you look at it well, just squished. It's pretty, pretty dope. But, you know, that's because we didn't know we were submitting to somebody,

to a person who was passing off the files. We didn't know. We kept asking like, everything's cool, the poster's good, and they were like, yeah, one fucking poster. Yeah, yeah, right, yeah. But now we get to do whatever we want. We're talking about it for two hours on the show. And we didn't do a poster. No. Um, we have the most, and art work and layout.

Oh, the artwork's badass, dude. For the new one? Yeah. For the re-released. It's like, it's just this. Yeah, you saw it yesterday when I went out. I want to show, yeah. Oh, that one.

Can you put it into my hands? Yeah, absolutely. And then edit? Yeah, perfect. Wow. Yeah, so the insert, this is the, uh, this is the gate told. I can't do that.

So not, don't get all crazy. I mean, we don't have that kind of budget. He's got the green screen. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not doing none of that. I'll crop it. I'll have it go throughout the whole screen. screen and that's the best I can do.

Perfect. That's good. That 2012 kind of after sleep therapy was actually out. And love there's a law to us musically was like done. It was it was finished. Well, it was close because we still played this as hardcore.

We played this as hardcore 2011. We did play 2011. That was our that was our, was it 2011? I don't think it was too. No, it was 2012. So the record the record was a 2001. I was 12 is when I first saw you guys. The record had been out for a little while.

And it was like, it was us being like, yo, shout out good, you know, who watched Code Orange Kids open the show? What did you think? You know, yeah. That's in the video, which is awesome. You guys played early as fuck. We played third, Code Orange was second. So we played Preacher Man at that set.

Yeah. And the record that sleep therapy had only been out. for five months. But we had Preacher Man seven inches. Yeah, because I got one. So sleep therapy came out, and then we put out Preacher Man five months later because we had been sitting on sleep therapy for so long.

For so long. I remember being at Rainfest and calling and being like, hey, I called Lawrence just to be like, hey, can, will you be okay with it if we just put out another record, like right after this? And he was like, yeah, you know, whatever you guys want to do. He was really cool about it the whole time. He was very, I mean, he was like totally understanding.

Yeah. And as you can see, he, we owned the record and gave it to Justin. Yeah, he just gave it back. Which that ain't easy to do. No. I remember that set. I remember vividly. You were the last.

So like, that was, I've told this story, but that was when we had just gotten back from Australia. And we like overnighted to play. And we were all James and Jay got bronchitis on the way. to this is hardcore. So like, they're dying, we're all fucked up from the time change,

and you guys were the last band we watched before we left. It was literally like, let's check this band out. And I watched from stage right. I remember it vividly. And I remember going, I think I might like this band.

We were not good. But the response was great. The response was like, it was incredible. For that early in the day. Yeah. It was pivotal for us. George, George Blackless had wore the shirt that night too.

Over as long as it. It's so funny how that was a cool. That's all for you for like that. Like I love Blacklist. You know. Yeah. That was a sick shirt though. You couldn't deny the shirt.

It was not a sick shirt. It was the beware of God one. That's a sick shirt. You think so? In hindsight. All right. Well, that's good. I'm glad you think so.

Everybody roast me for that one. I designed that. I was like the first shirt I ever designed. I still don't have the softest fuck shirt. Someone messaged me about that. We'll make new ones. We'll make a new one. I want the yellow one.

That's probably the last really cool shirt we made. It might have been the last shirt we had. Oh, that too. Well, no, we just made it a lot. We printed a bunch of different versions. We had that at This is HarkRour, which was one of the last shows we played. Yeah.

I think we had it at LDB. Oh Yeah Which is the last show we played Right Oh Who knows when we'll play another one Couldn't know

I can't tell you I have like an ideal But I just Who knows Can't do it Oh no Also I don't I generally don't like

Curse words on shirts But that shirt Sure rocks Something about it Yeah no I agree with you I agree with you I think I have one I have the fuck

Guns Rose's shirt. Yeah. I forget it's on there. I love G&R though. I have the type of negative long sleeve with his butt hole on the front cover.

It's the origin cover. And then the back says same old shit really big. Did you know? I love a shirt where the fuck on it. I just got the Slow Deep and Harden origin like revolver represses.

The origin one actually has shit smelling scratch and stuff. That's disgusting. about that a while ago. And it's like someone I know did it and it smells like shit. I don't want it. You keep it. I mean, I have it.

I'm just not going to do it. Taylor, what are your kind of round up thoughts on the origin of twitching tongues and the sleep therapy era and people hearing, maybe hearing these songs for the first time? In my brain. Before you answer, I want to ask a really poignant question.

Did it feel like, did you feel like Sisyphus? Were you pushing this rock up a thing because you believed that there was a vision that was going to The vision changed before this even came out.

Yeah, the trajectory for the band was completely different because in love was written it was done by the time sleep therapy came out. So to the degree that when we were doing the sleep therapy

lay out, out, we were making it darker and more metal looking, even though it has distance claws on it. You know, we were still, we were always heavy. But it was like we kind of wanted to shift to a darker tone. Because I don't think we knew what to do with just being like. Well, and again, that was a lot of that was Ruckus's fault. That's true. Yeah, we couldn't just be a hardcore band.

Sleep therapy would have been much harder had Ruckus not existed. Understood. Yeah. Because it was like, okay, we have our band to do that stuff, so we don't want to cross-pollinate too much. So we're going to make the pretty band, the melodic band. With like different kinds of mosh parts, but we have to have mosh parts because that's who we are.

We did say, like, I would say that when we were doing sleep therapy, there was like a, no, that's too heavy. Like that got said a couple times. But that's why, but like, dun dun dun dun, dun, done is still there. Because it was like a hard thing that Ruckus wouldn't do. Right. got you patterny made sense yeah

and it was this love so it was like okay this this makes sense in the context but then we were doing in love there's not a lot it was like fuck it here's some metal songs because deliver us is like stealing autopsy riffs and shit like that so um

I would say I look at the sleep therapy era and demo it's like one flash yeah because it was so short so fast but it was all written between in November 2009 and June 2010.

Yeah. Was everything you're hearing in that, yeah. Wow. Yeah, that is very quick. And that didn't come out for another two years. So we had to essentially the normal time that bands take to write a record before it even came out. So we had a second record written. Forgive me if you've already answered this.

But why did it take two years? It was just read tape, finding a label. Yeah. Nobody was interested in putting it out. Yeah. So it was a long process. And we did the seven-inch. Like vocals took a long time. Yeah.

We did other things to keep it alive. So you're saying in your brains, you had it written. It was done. It was done. It was recorded July 2010, musically. Vocals took another seven, eight months. Yeah.

Okay. And that's still early-bushed. Shopped, shop. Shopped, shop. Got it. Nothing until we found. We got physical LPs at our record release show April 2012. Almost two years.

That's two years at the time felt like five. It was like that's your whole life. That was me, that was me being, it was 18 to like 20, you know? Yeah. Like that's a long. The time between in love and disharmony feels way shorter. And it's the same. But it's the same.

Yeah. Which is crazy. because I love and love being done was really what drove us crazy. And it was like us playing the sleep therapy songs on the like Death Corps tour that we did. Yeah. And us thinking like, oh, you don't get it. Like we're something else. You'll see.

So why did you do that? If you're playing, I'm just picking your brains now. If you're playing a market that mostly hasn't heard of you, why are you playing like older songs? Because those are our songs that were out. Yeah, we just didn't dare play things. that weren't released. I think we've kind of always been that way. And we only did that one time.

And it was the Asylum Ave intro in New Jersey. In the morning show in New Jersey. Yeah. And it went over well. It was dope. That part is dope. Went over better than it ever did out of show.

Post release. Yeah. But then like the thing that you have to understand about switching tongues is like you will, like we're the hardest band ever. Yeah. Well, we've also always been Cisphus. pushing a stone uphill, like as a band.

Yeah. We just stopped pushing. I don't know. I think we're still pushing that we're just really strong now. You know? We just don't care. We don't care to push. That's the thing, you know.

We're fine with where we are in the mountain. That boulder's only heavy if you're pushing it, you know. Right. Yeah. I don't care to be. I don't like, we were trying to be a full-time band and grow it and, and be, like, be a career. this is what we're going to do. Now I'm kind of happy with what we got

and we're just, you know, let's just rock with that. You know who we are. We know what our roles are. Yeah. In this world. Yeah. I don't need more than that. No.

If there is more, if there is new Twitch and Tongues material, it'll just be because we're excited about the idea of doing that. And because of the people that want it, want it. We're not trying to get more new people. That's fine. whoever we got that that's the pop that's it yeah yeah I'm there love it or you're in the

you're in the soup I'm right in the soup I'm a little potato so you know if if you're listening to this and you're in like a newer band or an older band that uh people are down like aren't psyched about all the time just give it time and keep keep trudging along it took us a while for anybody to give a shit we didn't play a good show in our hometown for three years probably. From conception to show. Took about three years to have like a good set at home. So just keep going.

Yeah. So Al from SSD, just keep at it, brother. People eventually are going to like it. That's a good one. That was a good one. Oh, that's fun.

All right. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. This was the origin of twitching tongues. We hope you enjoyed it. Listen to the sleep therapy redux. now you can order it if it's still it's also ready it's not a pre-order

just go just buy it oh beautiful yeah we were ready join us on what not tomorrow pick up some some cool stuff from that era

and other eras we can't wait to see I'll go find the tape yeah you should do that not that it doesn't but yeah we love you all

thank you for for sticking by us how many years later 14 11? 11 had for 14 years that's crazy so and and to clearly state

twitching tongues is still as active as twitching tongues wants to be like it's yeah you guys are broken up we never left we'll never break up to have to have to reunite

yeah don't call it a comeback we just we just died to to players to be been here like this in the show yeah

fuck you is there a little bit of that Oh, yeah. Yeah. A little bit of like... Gaining purpose is a spite record. Gaining purpose is spiteful, dude. Yeah.

I got a list. I already got to get one of the Willie's house in Austin. That one day. That was awesome. Yeah. I'm getting... People are putting them out for me now. It's all...

They're going like, hey, man. I know I'm on the list. I don't want to be on the list. Can I... Taylor, can you share? I will after. Okay. Fuck.

Love him. You have me cut that out. This is the origin of twisting tongues. We originated and now we're still here. Somehow. Sleep therapy redux. Available now. Thank you.

This is Hardlore. We love you so much. Close cast activities. Bye.