HardLore - Walter Schreifels: Gorilla Biscuits, Quicksand, Youth of Today & Producing Title Fight

Episode Date: January 29, 2026

We finally sit down with one of the greats at FYA Fest: Walter Schreifels of Gorilla Biscuits, Quicksand, Youth of Today, Rival Schools and MANY more.In this long awaited discussion, we discuss the danger of NYHC in the 1980s and how surviving it to tell the tale was all just part of the fun that kept him coming back, Gorilla Biscuits being his first hardcore band/writing “Start Today” at 19 years old, the effect on his writing that being in Youth of Today had on him, expanding beyond hardcore for the first time with Quicksand, producing Title Fight’s “Shed” and much more.A true legend in hardcore, punk and beyond and we’re honored and grateful to have shred this time with him. Thanks to Walter and all of you. Enjoy._______________Cool links:HardLore Official Website/HardLore Records STOREGet 10% off GUILTY PARTY site-wide with code HARDLORE and grab some of our favorite clothing brands of all time.Get 15% off DUNABLE GUITARS with code HARDLORE_______________00:00:00 - Start00:02:47 - Discovering Music00:06:35 - Early Hardcore Bands Walter Connected With00:13:57 - Finding Community in Hardcore via Token Entry00:15:40 - The Danger of 1980s NYHC (Walter is Handsome)00:20:06 - First Band (The Rodents, Not Quite)00:21:18 - Gorilla Biscuits & The "Together" Comp00:30:10 - Youth Of Today, Revelation Records, Walter's First Tour00:36:35 - We're Not In This Alone, Disengage00:41:55 - Danzig vs. Youth of Today00:43:05 - Pardon This Interruption...00:46:39 - Youth Crew Fashion00:53:05 - Start Today01:06:45 - Walter Loses Stuff01:10:28 - Between GB & Quicksand01:13:43 - Formation of Quicksand01:19:35 - "Start Today" and "Slip" in Retrospect01:21:06 - Tool Comparisons, Hearing His Riffs in Other Music01:22:38 - Touring On Slip And Response To The Record01:24:06 - Thoughts On Streaming01:29:00 - Producing "Shed" For Title Fight, Discovering Memes, Playing for Outburst01:34:58 - Top 4 Hardcore Records  HardLore: A Knotfest Series, Fueled by Monster EnergyEdited by Steven Grise • Title sequence by Nicholas MarzlufJoin the HARDLORE PATREON to watch every single weekly episode early and ad-free, alongside exclusive monthly episodes.Join the HARDLORE DISCORD for community discussions and to participate in our future Q&A episodes.FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER, SPOTIFY, APPLEFOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAMFOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER For sponsorship opportunities, email us! [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I started Gorilla Biscuits and we, you know... So Gorilla Biscuits, is that your first real band? First hardcore, like, yeah. 37 or 38 years later, you did one LP. Yeah. And you're on top still. Oh, man, you know, it's, it's, I think I'm so lucky. The hardcore scene continues to keep re-energizing itself and re-you know, it's just,

and I think it's like more valuable. now than ever because there's so few things that are people-based like this is. Welcome. It's our Lord time. How you doing, Bo? I'm could not be better in this moment. This is a big day. Some would say it's decades in the making here. This is, we've got here one of the most prolific minds to ever make hardcore music, right? I dare say. The original heartthrob in our sport. Queens New York, a story of Queens, many of your favorite bands,

Many of our favorite bands, Bo, take it away. From yesterday, Gorilla Biscuits, Quicksand, rival schools, many others. Many others, let's leave it there. Mr. Walter Shrifles. Hey, guys, thanks to be, thanks for inviting me here. Thank you so much. Thanks for coming.

Yeah. I asked him two tie downs ago. Okay. Been punishing them ever since. Here we are. 2026, can you believe that? No. Yeah, it seems...

I live in New York, and I have noticed there's so many like super futuristic tall buildings. And yeah. But I mean, what did I want? It's to be the same as it was when I was 20. You know what I mean? It's kind of futuristic and stuff. I guess it's just happening.

What are you going to do? But yeah, 2026, here we are. I love that. Let's deal with it. 40 years of basically everything good ever. Yeah. Growing up in Queens, Astoria Queens. I lived in Astoria Queens when I moved there for high school.

you know my mom moved so so I lived there in high school but for the majority of my like elementary junior high and stuff was in Rockaway Beach Rockaway Beach like the songs Yes

How do you find music and how does music evolve to finding punk and hardcore My first initial music stuff was My parents' record collection What that looked like? My dad had a lot of yacht rock kind of stuff and my mom had more

folk kind of stuff like yeah my dad was more steely Dan Doobie brothers and my mom was more Bob Dylan Donovan Neil Young sure and so kind of parsed through that stuff and then I had cousins that were into like

just rock and roll like album oriented rock you know so I got living in New York you get Bruce Springsteen and all that kind of stuff I used to stay up as I started to get my own taste It was from staying up late to watch Saturday Live. The guests. And there were shows and it was very hard to stay up that late when you're like 10, 11 years old. I would, you know.

And there were shows on even after Saturday Live like Don Kirchner's rock concert, which sounds so ancient. And, you know, I would just discover a band here or there. Then once I was old enough to start buying records, I would even read Rolling, I started to read Rolling Stone. Anything got like a really good review. a really good review I would I would no matter what it was well you know we'd have to the record cover would have to appeal to me you know stuff like that but I that's

how I got into like REM I forgot their first EP when I was probably like I don't 11 or 12 because it got a great review or the Velvet Underground I got into them when they got reissued in that time and there was a radio station in New or it was actually in Long Island called WLIR that used to play a lot of imports from the UK So when all this really cool stuff was happening in the 80s, I would hear on this one particular radio station, like all the sort of, like I heard the Smiths when the first single came out, like all the sort of Depeche Mode, Blamage, OMAMD, like all of that kind of like electro pop that was coming out of UK in the early 80s, Echo and the Bunnyman, like a lot of that kind of,

like post-punk kind of stuff, XTC, all that kind of stuff. When that was all happening, I was hearing it on this radio station. So that came all before punk music for you? Yeah, I mean, you know, I was aware of the Sex Pistols by that time. I had seen the rock and roll high school film. Banger. And I actually went with my cousin. We were going to go see The Kids Are All Right, which was the Who movie.

But it ended up being a double feature. So we stayed for the second movie, which was Rock and Roll High School. Oh, cool. And that really... That did it more. I mean, kids were all right. It was fucking amazing, too. That definitely has had a huge impact on me.

But Rock and World High School was looking at, it was a view into a music scene that was not big. You know what I mean? And it was right there. It was right there. You know, you're, I mean, it looked like, it looked like tangible. You know what I mean? Like, A, I wanted to learn how to play guitar. It seemed like these guys didn't really know how to play that good.

So chances are the entry would be a quicker. entry and they just seemed cool like they were wearing black leather jackets and talking about your neighborhood just it was funny and fun and and the lyrics were funny and fun and so I was aware of the Ramones I was wear the Sex Pistols so I think I got into hardcore you know I had gotten to Dead Kennedy's album you know so these are sort of the big heavy hitter bands that you I was thinking of it in terms of punk but then there was a radio show like I think it was on Sunday nights on L.A.R. they started to do called The Midnight Riot and that was all like a lot more punk from

the UK but also New York hardcore. So that's one of the first times I listened and one of the first songs I heard was um gosh I remember like hearing urban waste on the radio wow and Beastie Boys for a single. And all these like uh you know alongside GBAH alongside you know anti nowhere league and all this other kind of stuff. Very proto New York hardcore yeah yeah yeah let me The first up, the first seven inches. I mean, Urban Way 7-inch was on, shit, I can't remember a record label that was, but the B.C. Boy's record was on Rat Cage.

So that made me more aware of what it, that was a thing. Something that was really happening that wasn't necessarily in a movie. It was not in a movie. Even more tangible. Yeah, that was like, what record store might have to find

to find these records? Like, I'm going to have to go to Manhattan and just walk around areas that I think are cool. There's no way to know where the record store was going to be. You would just go to an area where there was like, you know, St. Mark's Place or something like that. And you just walk through and try to find a thing and then another one. And then where, how do you find the shows from there? That took a little while longer.

It wasn't really until I moved to Astoria, which was in my sophomore, no, my junior year of high school. I moved in the summer before my junior year. And I started working at a grocery store, and Arthur, the bass player of Grill Biscuits, started working at the grocery store. And I trained him. And we were both into the same kind of music. But he had already been going to Seabees for a while. Was he already dressed in fancy? He already looked.

He wasn't dressing like how he looks now, but he looked cool and punk. He had bleached hair. And, you know, he's wearing vans. And you couldn't really get vans at that time. And so he... And Crout were from Astoria, too. And Crout was another band that I was aware of. When we spent the day with Mike Dijon and Jojo from Hubbard,

we went to the bench at the park in Astoria next to the bridge. And Crout was the band. That's what they described as. Oh, yeah. Crout and Leeway were like, those are the bands that did it all. I mean, those got, to me, Crout was like, I mean, you listen to their record now. it's like as good as any British punk rock record of the time. Like it's got so many hooks.

They had such a cool vibe, their whole thing. I think they were just like a little ahead of the curve maybe. But they were from Astoria. To me, they were rock stars. But by the time I got to Astoria, they had already kind of crested in a way, I think. And it was sort of like a weird, I think it was 85 time like where there was that first wave of bands have mostly broken up. United Blood is out. Yeah.

His record was about to come out. A.F, yeah. Cause for alarm had not yet come out. So they were still, there was just sort of, you know, COC were probably the biggest band. And they weren't, you know, they were from Carolinas. Yeah, they weren't from New York. So New York's, I guess Murphy's Law was probably the biggest band in New York. Were you looking at CFC as a hardcore band at the time?

No, I thought COC was a cool version of, crossover. Yeah. You know, at that time, like, to me, I did not, was not into metal, because metal was, like, way more defined, like, um, and a lot of it was just, like, just garbage, you know what I mean? A lot of it was just like, you know, kids in my high school were into, like, Cinderella or thinking, like, you know, Dockin was so badass. Like, I can get into Dockin and appreciate it now. But are you hearing Celtic Frost at the time? Yeah, Celtic Frost was a thing, but Celtic Frost was more like, like, you know, it's harder to look at it now.

Like, Celtic Frost was underground music. Yeah. So that had my respect. It just was not my taste. Gotcha. Sure. Because I think it was more, um,

you know, I just wasn't, I was looking for like, I wanted to live in like a suicidal tendencies video. I wanted to be like, don't we all, you know, being punk,

you know what I mean? I wanted to be in suburbia and stuff like that. And that, that sort of like Celtic Frost vision of the world was legit and authentic. And I had friends in high school

they could relate to that were into Celtic Frost, but that just was not my aesthetic. That's not where I was aimed. And surely anything that was like technically metal played to me was like anathema. And I thought that COC were coming from a punk place and like grabbing that in a way

that I thought was like cool. Yeah. Like good. You say it all the time. He says all the time, death metal made by punks. That's the better kind of message. It's great.

There's not so many examples, but like DRI work. really kind of doing that at that time. But I thought Technocracy by COC was really good. I saw them at CBs. Blind is my. That's my number one. Yeah. I can't believe it. That was a little later. Yeah, I wasn't following them at that point.

But they were the band. And so New York scene was like, I mean, obviously Murphy's Law was so great. And I would say that they were kind of like in their prime maybe at that time as the biggest band. Leeway at that time, like those guys, guys are younger, me, Dejan and Joe, no. Not by a lot. But enough. In hardcore years. Yeah, like our perspectives might be slightly different. Leway had a demo out at that time.

Right. We were not big. They were, they could play C-Bs, maybe do their own matinee, maybe. But they were, and Leeway were kind of like way more attuned to that metal crossover thing. Yeah, yeah. And so I couldn't help but like Leeway, because I knew AJ and I knew Eddie and they were fucking cool. and they were like older dudes and the music was just... So good. You didn't have to like metallic music to recognize that they were doing something really special

and especially if you saw them live, they were fucking way better, I thought. And the LP the Born and Expire took so long to actually come out that it was like the secret amongst your community of like, we know these songs. Yeah, I mean it did take a little while. That wasn't unusual, you know what I mean? Because bands, you know, it's... It's... It's...

took a while before there were some record labels to be interested in this stuff. You know, like the time like 85, when leeway, they used to be called unruled, but I think by that time they were probably called leeway, um, were, uh, just sort of early adapters. And I have never really talked to AJ about it,

but, um, I guess AJ just really knew how to play fucking metal. Yeah. Yeah. In a cool way that, that made sense with hardcore, but then you know,

like basically a long story. show, the scene was I felt, yeah, in a crossover period, you know, it's like in between things. So how do you go from the double feature and looking for these records to your first hard call? Oh, that's what I'm talking about. So anyway, so I met Arthur and then so I got invited into like the token entry kind of camp because they were, and they were sort of like they had been in a band called Gilligan's Revenge and they, token entry was sort of like their, and they, token entry was sort of like their,

they were sort of in between too. They were sort of like hardcore punk but also kind of wanted to be a rock band. A lot of this music was just in between I think at that time. But anyway, Anthony was the singer, Anthony who was later in Killing Time, was the singer of token entry at that time.

He, it's fucking best dude. He was very much a mentor to me and Siv. And Ernie as well, like those token entry guys, especially Ernie and Anthony, really like turned us on to different music. and through what they were doing showed us like, you know, what it's like to be in a band

and all this kind of stuff. So the first shows I would go to, when I moved to Astoria, I used to just started, I started going to the big shows like, you know, Dead Kennedys Circle Jerks. Sure.

Like the big shows that you could read about in the newspaper. Of course. And I would look at Seabies and I knew that there was something going on there, but I was a little bit scared

and I didn't know what day to go. So it wasn't until I went until I made friends with Arthur and those guys that I started going to CB's. And that just kind of, it's maybe like a year or so of just kind of like this like in between sort of mid period. And then within that year, you know, Sick of It All started playing. Gorillivus gets started playing. Youth Today came to New York. You know, just this scene started to like start to match. Yeah.

So did you have any? trouble growing up in this kind of mythically dangerous time and around these mythically dangerous groups of people as an incredibly handsome young man. Oof, I wasn't, you know, I was one of those kind of, you know, not aware of my effect on people at that time, you know, it's only now that I give me the podcast world that I get. That you learn everybody's wives are the hall pass. I just don't know the, yeah, so I'm learning this now. You're doing great.

You're doing great. I'm trying to keep trying to remain humble Yeah, good But yeah, this scary time You're like, you're a smaller guy amongst giants Oh yeah, I think that's probably Part of the thrill of it Not even not just for me

But I think for a lot of people Because it's all relative There's always somebody that can beat you up Or intimidate you Yeah I think the fun of going into the pit And going to these dangerous parts of town And all this kind of stuff

Is that you get that you survive it And you're like, I'm kind of a little bit More of a badass today Than I was yesterday You know, if you go into the pit and people are running around, it looks like a bit violent and people seem to know each other and you don't know them or people know how to do it and you don't know how to do it and you jump into that. That's what keeps coming back. Yeah, but a lot of people don't make it. A lot of people jump in, some punches them in the head and they're like, this is not for me.

Or they get beat up because they're the new kid and it's like jail and they're like, I don't want to go back there. You know, it's a bad place. I think figuring how to you know make friends build community and being lucky you know what I mean? Because you could just be there the wrong day were you accepted and looked out for right away

or are there any like key instances coming to mind of a big bad guy coming to your defense for something I remember because it happens a lot we talked to Craig just the other day oh dude I came to a call let me think of like where someone came to my aid. Like Mel Walter's cool. I know he's small and handsome, but...

Yes, yes, there was once. I was walking down the street with a couple of friends, or maybe a few friends, and we were walking down in any way, and this group of skinheads came up to us. Arthur was with me, Arthur and I think Gus. And these guys just, there's probably four or five of them, just attacked us.

One of them was hold me behind and was like holding my arms. hitting me in the head. Whoa. And I was just like, I don't know if you guys ever been beaten up or got it, but there's an adrenaline rush and I was just thinking like, first of all, it's moving slow and I was like, this doesn't hurt as bad as I thought this experience would hurt. Yeah.

You know what I mean? And I said in my mind is like they're going to realize at a certain point that they're beating up the wrong person. Someone's going to understand it and I'm going to be okay. And that's ultimately what happened. They realized that they were beating up the wrong person because I was in war zone. And I think one of my guys just kind of made it clear to them that I was in war zone. Like he's in war zone, you're beating up the wrong guy.

Big no-no. So, yeah, but I mean, I didn't like weaponize it or anything like that. Yeah, of course, of course. You know, there was really, I mean, it was so long ago I can't really remember high plate. I'm sure it sucked. And I remember the next day, my head hurting. It was fucking bad. Luckily, it wasn't like I had bruise on my face, but I was like, oh my God, I have such a headache.

This is like, so that they hit me hard. Okay. But that adrenaline saved you in the mouth. But the adrenaline saved me. It was kind of like when you're, and I think this is a good metaphor for being in the pit too. It's like growing up in Rockway, you go out when the waves are big and you get knocked down and you're knocked under. So you're spinning and sometimes you don't even know like what, which way is up. but if you keep like struggling to get up

you're fucked it's not it's not gonna help you what you have to do sounds a lot like quicksand or quicksand is another one but you're in there you're in the pit and you're like oh god I might die and then just kind of let your body just don't fight it

and just kind of find your way out of it and then get out of it and then you're back on the side you're like oh my God I'm still alive exactly surfing is just like moshing And surfing, yeah, it's very similar. So you said you were in Warsaw on at the time, let's go back a little bit. What was the first band you ever played in?

First band I ever played in. We didn't really play shows at venues and stuff, but like parties and talent shows and stuff like that. We were called The Rodents, and we were kind of like being like, you know, sort of punk songs. We had songs making fun of kids in our class and stuff like that. And then we kind of got better our instruments. We went a little bit more, like, deeper.

And then we became Not Quite. Sick. And that... Sick name. That was pretty sick. And the bass player got, like, a not quite denim jacket painting on the back of his jacket. How long had that man last? How many weeks?

In, like, yeah, you know what I mean? In, like, kid years, it was like a long... Your career. It was a whole era. Yeah. But in actual time, it was probably like three months. Fuck, yeah. And then I moved...

I had a year of high school in Ohio. Because my dad lived in Ohio, so I lived in Toledo, Ohio for my sophomore year of high school. Then when I came back, I moved to Astoria. Fuck yeah. So then you joined Warzone? Well, Gorilla Biscuits. I started Gorilla Biscuits and we, you know. So Gorillibiscus is that your first real bad?

First hardcore, like, yeah. Okay. Because I made friends with Arthur and this token entry crew, and we were all in Astoria. Yeah. And... Because the timeline is a little weird. It is weird. because your first credited appearance

on a piece of vinyl is for both Warzone and Youth of Today on the Together Comp. And I'm also on Death Before Dishonor. What are they called? Super Touch. I'm on that record too, but I'm not credited. Really? Yeah, which is fucked up.

Well, that's fine. Mark apologized. We're good. Did you play guitar? I play bass on it. Wow. On Search for the Light. And I also played on Youth Today. I played on Youth Today,

Gorilla Biscuits, Warzone, and... Super Touch. Super touch. I played on four of the seven songs on that first seven-inch. So, I'm still waiting for my credit for that. So waiting for that $85. You know what I mean? I really do. So Girl Biscuits was the first one.

It was the first band that I did that way. When I moved to Astoria and met my heart, this is like this is going to be a hardcore band. Okay. And Grill Biscuits was like kind of more, I wanted it to be like descendants, really. Like that was the initial thing because. You hear that on Start Today. Yeah, there's, I mean, there's melody baked in, you know? Yeah, it's in there.

So it kind of evolved as like Straight Edge came in and, you know, youth of today and like that whole youth crew thing. Like, it definitely spun Gorilla Biscuits from sort of like a humorous descendants slash Murphy's Law AF. Yeah. influences to something more aligned to seven seconds and stuff like, you know, in that wall. Sure. Did you come up with the name? I didn't come up with it, but I had, I, Siv was just talking about different drugs that he,

because he was in, he was in junior high and he was, Siv's been straight edge since then. Like when I met him, I think he was straight edge. How long were you straight edge, Walter? in those time years forever. But in regular years, probably until I was like probably 20, 21. And then set probably like three years. You know, those are important years to be straight. I'm grateful for those years.

It's true. They set the tone for like knowing when you're over your skis and just keeping yourself, surrounding yourself with the right people. Don't put yourself in dangerous situations. Absolutely. I never, I'm always so lost on straight-ed lineage between. old straight-edge bands, the formative straight-edge bands, like how long they were straight-edge

when it became this kind of lifetime commitment thing. And then Bo tells me the story of you guys at dinner. What I do? Did I make a straight-edge show? No, no, no. You and I and our mutual friend, friend of the show, Jordan Olds. Yeah, I love Jordan.

Got dinner when Harmesway played at the Bowery Ballroom. Not too long ago. That was a great night. And we were talking about something and you were just, you were like, yes, youth crew, because I mentioned that I was really into youth crew. You're talking about music. Yes, I love it.

I love it. Yeah. Anyway, guys, margaritas? And it was just, it was just, Jordan and I kind of looked at each other. You know, it was just one of my- Nobody will believe you. Yeah, nobody will believe me. So, okay.

So Sid was talking about it. You heard it, and you thought. Yeah, he was just talking about drugs that he dealt in junior high. And it was like, he was like, yellow sevens, you know, all these, like, drug name things. He's, you know, Gorilla Biscuits and blah, blah, blah. It's like, what was that one that you just said? And he said, Gorilla Biscuits.

I go, there's the band name. Let's go. Wow. Yeah, that was the one. And here we are. And he was so cool that he actually would, all right, it sounds good, which is amazing. Wow. Because he said, that sounds stupid.

So the GBE, I mean, the demo and a seven inch. The seven inch is pretty hard. Seven inch and Gorilla Biscuits. Yes. Okay, I like to hear that. It's pretty hard, especially compared to start today. Yeah. It's not as manic and crazy as like,

can't close my eyes or even break down the walls, which I think are kind of influences. Contemporary. Contemporary. Yeah, contemporary. Yeah, I guess definitely can't close my eyes would have been a big one that was such a huge record. I don't know. I can't remember when Breakdown the Walls came out, but short, yeah, certainly.

Yeah. And also being in youth today informed my songwriting. Yeah. Because I was in, to me, the youth today at that time were the absolute best band in a musical way. They still are. Yeah, there's the other bands at the time that were absolutely great for all different reasons

but in a musical head I just thought that it just that's the best shit. So I was playing in the band at that time. So I was just soaking up sponging it and then applying it over here. And then just then using that information to

you know apply but I think with the 7 inch similar but you know I'm just drawing off a more broader you know like bad brains for sure And we weren't as good at playing. Not that we ever got that great, but we were, you know, but the songs are sort of always had a silliness to them.

I thought, for the most part, you know, like... You're called Gorilla Biscuits. You're called Gorilla Biscuits. And I always wanted to have like an overly serious point of view that it's almost funny in a way. Like, it's sort of like... There was a band called Crucial Youth that were like making fun of the genre.

and I think Gorilla Biscuits in a way was like almost right up to the line of that except that we meant it. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Like I think it's really when I think about it, I had like an idea of how when we were talking about the scene before like from youth today and all that kind of stuff and seeing shows like at the anthrax and in Connecticut versus shows in New York, I guess, like a vision of a scene where everybody was like cool to each other and supportive and and.

not violent, you know, there's a lyric in, um, finish what you started, where it goes, uh, wish I could see music and scene, uh, attitude free and nobody's mean. Yeah. And it's funny, but is it not true? Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. So I always want to play to that, to that. So it's a little tongue in cheek.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. But I mean, but also real. Yeah. But the thing of the New York car course, he's like, yo, we don't take no shit. Yeah, yeah. But that's changing with youth today. Yeah, and youth today were kind of putting a righteous, you know, finger-pointing, Warzone as well. Sort of cleaning up the nihilism of the scene that had sort of kind of was done anyway, in a way.

You know, it was turning the page on all that. So the Grillman's Good stuff was like, you got a big mouth, you know? Like, it's funny, I think. And that's why. And you have rabies doing his part. Your rabies is doing it. So it starts off. Yeah.

But dude, people do have big mouths. And I wish they would just shut them fuck up sometimes. You know what I mean? But it's not like, uh, so when you say it's hard. Musically. I didn't think, I wanted people to dance to it. I wanted people to take it seriously in the pit. I didn't want it to be a joke band at all.

But I wanted it to be like, um, have a sense of fun and of joy and of like, you know, um, earnestness. Interesting. That song in particular, Big Mouth, the kind of harmonic, D-Din-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D. Do you write that?

I wrote all of it. I wrote everything. And you were lyricist as well for it? Yeah. For everything? Damn. Wow. Good on you, man. I mean, some of that stuff...

I don't know how I wrote those songs. Isn't that a good feeling, though? You know, it took me... I was literally in my 30s when I figured out what you guys were saying in like biscuit power. Mm-hmm. Like that's like spelling it out.

I had no idea. I didn't know what was going on. Yeah. I didn't know. I thought I was hearing Dragonslair. Yeah. But you're actually saying Dragon's Lair. Yeah, quarter for the Dragons Lair.

What is the Dragons Lair? Dragon's Lair is a video game at the time of the, in the 80s where it was like really cheesy but kind of slick at the time where it was sort of a choose your adventure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was like with these sort of filmed cartoons and you'd be like, choose room run, choose two. And then you'd, get through that room and then you'd be like okay you made it this far choose this room or that

room it was stupid i never even really played it but i just i think it rhymed with something yeah better watch out better be scared yeah yeah quarter for the dragon's lair so then so okay so help my timeline please grill biscuits was already a thing how do you get linked up with he's it today you think because gb we were coming up and we were dude our dream was to get on revelation records and such an achievable dream yeah well i mean at the time it was like Such a gate key like that was the that was the ultimate thing. I mean there wasn't really any other records on it There was like the comp which we got on so that was magic But once we heard that Ray was doing a record label was gonna be called Revelation

We just wanted to be down because there was really not really any other record labels in New York as many bands as there were And you know the bands like crumb suckers or Agnostic Front or this is all the like combat, Caroline. Yeah, they had all signed to these sort of like more metal labels. So they were the sort of like hardcore signing on the metal label. And the metal label was like, had all the shit contracts and all the music business crap.

Yeah. But they didn't really have the push of like an actual major label. So I mean, that's still how it is right now. Yeah. So you get a certain exposure to an audience. But I wasn't really aiming for that. But those bands had joined that thing. So there was no like hardcore independent.

label at the time. So Revelation came out. We were like, oh my God, I want to be on Revelation. And, you know, they, I remember Ray and Jordan came up to me at a show at the Ritz. And they were like, hey, do you want to go up? Be on Revelation. Oh, my God, yes. And then it was sort of like, you know, you're going to go out with the prettiest girl at school or something. You dream about it. And then nothing. Then like nothing happened. And they just, the whole communication went dead. And then I saw them, oh, we're going to do it. Oh, yeah, you know, some other time. Also still happening. We'll see what happens or whatever.

And so we were on the radar, I guess. I had been playing with Warzone. And Craig quit Youth of Today to join Ignostic Front. And I had a show at the Pyramid. They asked me to play bass. And I was like, fuck, yeah. I mean, that was basically like joining the Rolling Stones. Yeah.

To me at the time, it's like, and we're going on tour. So this is like end of high school, 19. We're going on tour for Breakdown the Walls. First tour? For you? For me. How was that? The first U.S. tour for youth today, too.

Wow. Any memories? Any fond memories? Oh my God, so many. I mean, it was absolutely epic. You know, we all shaved our heads. We looked like nut jobs. We were all teenagers.

Shaved heads driving this van around. Like every city was, you know, you're just, not to be like old about it, but it's like, you know, you're looking at maps, calling people from gas stations, you're talking to kids, you're never talking to adults, you're rarely playing venues, things, you go drive to a city and there's just no show or, you know what you mean, just all this kind of crap and you're always picking up shows and you're always staying at different people's houses. You know, we were living on a, you know, $5 a day, PD for a while until that ran out.

Then we were just shoplifting. And, you know, we played some incredible shows. Like, one of the highlights was what we were in Texas, I think. And we got an offer to play a show in L.A. A few days or a couple days later with the exploited at Fender's Ballroom, which was like a very, was the epic hardcore venue in Southern California. Is that still around today? No.

It's been gone for a long time now. One of the craziest flyers ever was at Fender's Ballroom. Fender's Ballroom. It doesn't have a different name. name now maybe? No, I don't think so. I don't even know if the bullying is there anymore, to be honest. And it is Fender. It was in like the Fender Font, wasn't it? For all I know, maybe it was the Fender Factory? I had to look into that. But, um... Was there a show? I could be mistaking it with another one, but there was, like, you played some with, uh, maybe

uniform choice on that tour as well as a seven-second show? We played with uniform I don't think on that tour, but played with them a couple times. G.B. played with Uniform Choice and Wishing Well Records. That was a big thing too for G.B. I mean, just like that, between Youth Today and Uniform Choice, Wishing Well Records, Revelation Records, these forces were so powerful in hardcore. Not only because they were doing something really cool, but they were also, it was only a few years prior. But they were plugging into the hardcore that I seen that I wanted to be in. I didn't want to be in a metal scene. being a hardcore scene. So they were referencing minor threat, they're referencing negative approach, they're referencing SSD, like all the bands that like I thought that's the scene

that I, and they were doing the most creative scene supporting work. You know, Ray was putting together these matinees at the Pyramid Club. And the scene in New York just had gotten so diverse and awesome. And it just, yeah, so the tour anyway, going back to the tour was was fantastic and I met so many, every place that I went, I would meet, you know, the most core people of a city that were going to like write the fanzine, form the band, book the show. And I know a lot of those people from that very first tour that are still like, that's what they do as professional people. And that, you know, how the fuck would I know anybody in Salt Lake City?

Like that just was not going to happen for me. But now I go pretty deep there. Were you a four piece for that tour? Five piece. We had, Richie, the singer of Underdog, was the guitar player. And Mike, the singer of Judge, was the drummer. The drummer,

seen as kind of the, like, wow, lineup. It was kind of like an all-star. Yeah. Although I would have been the scrub at that point. I would have been, like, if it was the Super Friends, I would have been, like, Zan and Jana or something like that. Because those dudes were, like, already, like, the main dudes, like, we had Batman Superman and you know sure there's a great picture of the five of you yeah that

is just one of my favorite is there is there a secret recording of you singing an underdog set somewhere I know I know that's never happened that I know that I can remember although sometimes them like oh that actually didn't happen I don't think so no are you writing we're not in this alone in the van on the store uh no but we did write some understand I remember writing on that trip um which was on a comp and together, no, we wrote together before. Also a comp song. Yeah, that's on the comp too. But we wrote, Understand, that's the one I remember.

And I can't remember if we wrote anything else. But I remember writing that on our roof with Ray. Sick. Which was pretty cool. Pretty cool. So how involved are you in writing? We're not in this alone. I wrote the music for, I don't know, a handful of them,

and contributed to some. Like I wrote Keep It Up, Choose to Be. Banger. I wrote the beginning part of the baseline of, I have to look at the credits. Yeah, sure, sure. But I wrote a handful on that. But you were very involved in the record overall.

Yeah, yeah. And Purcell was writing songs, and we would kind of translate Ray's songs. Like, Ray's songs were like more time we'll remember. Yeah. Flame still burns. I feel like they're more sort of theatrical. Yeah.

songs. And anthems. It's like he's writing it as the front man. It's more, yeah, writing this front man and Purcell songs are kind of like he wrote some more, I guess

somewhat metallic or kind of ones. Yeah, I mean, Judge is coming. Yeah. So I'd have to look at the thing to break down. But basically, me, Sam and Purcell wrote a bunch of the songs. Ray, we translated ones that Ray

you know, would kind of like, he could play a little bass or he would just articulate it and we would just kind of come up with it for that album. And then for the seven-inch that we did afterwards, Disengage. I wrote Disengage music. Oh, you know, now you just disproved a folktale about that. I had always heard that the song Disengage was a judge song that they just didn't use

or whatever and it was used because it's very different. It's very heavy. That's the heaviest youth today thing in my opinion. Yeah. I wrote that one. Wow. Guys. We call that hard.

We do call that hard. That's hard luck. Yeah. So that's... Who is Les Paas Davis? Les Paas Davis was the guy that... Is he an engineer of one? I think he's the engineer, yeah.

But he... I don't want to disparage this man, but we're down this alone recording is just really insane. Like we recorded it at Chung King, which later was the Chunking. So he was a guy at Chunking. So he was just, I don't even know. Like, we would record it off hours there. we would start recording at like midnight and go until like 8 in the morning. So I was

delirious. I was a straight edge at that time. So I wasn't like, by any ways like, I was just tired. So I was just asleep. Little Sam is like fucking 14 years old or something. Just left-handed. Rough-handed freak. They recorded

all the drums and then the guy, less pause, with his little pause, recorded over the snare drum. So the snare drum got erased on all of it. He Dr. Midnighted Sammy? Whatever that, I don't know what that

is. I don't know the reference, but if that's what it is that's called. Dr. Midnight comes in and does surgery on the Yeah, he erased the entire snare track. And so he called Sam, like little kid Sam, oh, come in, oh, yeah, I just wanted you to work on a little something, you know, whatever, just coming a little early, and had him just overdub, the snare throughout. So if you listen to the drums with that in mind, you can

can hear the ghost of Sam's old snare drum on the other drums mixed in with the snare that the poor little kid just sat going like this. It fills, pop, pap, pat, pat, pat, pat, pat, pat, pat, I'd have to ask him. Yeah. On the whole record. We'll have, Sam is gonna be on at some point. This is a lot. Yeah. Wow.

He remember, well, Sam, you know, we didn't have, we had very limited experience, especially in a place where we had recorded it on Furies. That was like an eight-track room. and we were very familiar with Don, and there wasn't really too much going on, whereas, like, you know, not that Chump King was particularly fancy, but they did have, like, a full, you know,

it was probably like an SSL or something like that. And they can suck it, you know, from what we've heard. And surely, they can suck it. Yeah, so that's what we've heard. I would have, if I was in charge of you today, I would have said, hey, let's cut our losses and re-record this album at Don Furies, which is exactly what I did with Gorilla Biscuits,

because we'd so desperately wanted to record at Chung King because that's where Beasie Boys had recorded, that's where Public Enemy had recorded, that's where Slayer had recorded, Danzig. Would they do Hallowaits there or something? No, they did South Heaven there, I think, there too, but they surely did...

What's the one before South of Heaven? Reasons? Rain and Blood. Rain and Blood? Rainer Blood. Rainer was Chung King? I'm pretty sure. I had no idea.

Huh. But it probably, for you today, it probably would have been more that, I think we were more about the, like I remember going to Chum King and L.L. was there one night. Oh. Like Chuck D. was there.

So we were just psyched to be there. Yeah. I read a story once. Maybe another folktale. You're unlocking a lot of things in my brain right now. Danzig was recording at the same time. Yes.

This is true. There was an elevator that had been painted. Yes. Oh, my God. So there was an elevator that had been painted. And who did it first? You guys did it first? I think that Purcell had some like little graffiti war with Danzig.

Yeah, so there was like straight-edge shit written, right? Yeah. And then the next day it was devil shit. Mm-hmm. And then finally, you guys crossed paths one time. And as you today got in the elevator and somebody said something about straight-edge and Danzig turned around and said, Satan. Yeah.

The door is closed. Yeah. Yeah. Confirmed? I have confirmed that that story happened. I was not there. Okay. But Sam and Purcell, I think, were, that was their thing.

I didn't have anything to do with that. Were you a misfith guy? Yeah. Not like, you know, having a tattoo or carrying on that level. But, no, but that is people, the misfits are a band that people obsess on. I just, you know, I liked them. Okay. Pardon this interruption.

You know we hate to interrupt this masterpiece with one of the, the greatest to ever do it. But we have two very important things to tell you about. That's right. We do. Who do we got first, Colin? First off, this episode is brought to you by Guilty Party. It is our favorite menswear store on God's Green Earth. They're based out of Atlanta, Georgia, co-owned by the drummer of Foundation, and it's where we get all of our favorite denim in the world. We got Flathead, Ironheart, free note. What's the fancy one you love? Full count. I love it so much. The other one, the French one. Oh, Studio Dardtisan. That's a good one. And then I got a pair of these samurai baker pants this week.

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Either way, you're going to have my favorite guitars in the palms of your mutes. It's good. Thank you. Back to the episode. Let me ask you something. At this time, with the you through thing, your scene that you guys are all making,

style, clothing. Yeah. And the fashion is very specific, very iconic. Where are you pulling this from? Why is this becoming a thing? Obviously, I think having an identity is important. Yeah.

And we can all understand that. Why that one? Why the sports stuff? the athletic. From my perspective, you had a city, like this New York City was the hardcore mecca at that time if you lived in New York or if you lived even in surrounding places.

So, that look was leather jackets, combat boots, you know, ripped jeans, shaved head, flannel shirt. You know, you kind of dress like the Circle Jerk, man, maybe. Sure. And the guy?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And a crossover into like a skinhead look, which I think was very inspired by Harley Flanagan, kind of bringing that to New York and Harley had a lot of influence. So I think a lot of skinhead kind of look. I mean, I wouldn't say, yeah, because there was other guys into it. Obviously, like Vinny and Roger. And I think a lot of people from that era were taking from OI, you know,

because OI has this, like, working class. you know, power to it that I think was very relatable. Because the New York scene, well, it had all different walks, but I think there was like a real working class element to it. It wasn't like art schooly. Although that existed in the scene, but, so it's fashion-wise, I think that was kind of the look. So when you today came, A, they were coming from the suburbs,

they were coming from... Danbury, Connecticut. Danbury, Connecticut. So I think those guys came with this sort of jock look. Yeah. And I thought that that was, especially for me personally,

having spent a year in Ohio where they had football teams and all this kind of crap and like, you know, the jock look was such a thing. And you're an SSD guy, which the varsity guy. And they were ripping it from SSD.

Yeah. So I think it's like this sort of subversion of that look, like where you're rather than being the circle jerk man or you know a crossover guy

you're going to dress like you're a jock from the suburbs in the way but we were also very attuned to hip hop too so we were buying like fancy shit too fancy sportwear nice sneakers

and that got more and more refined as more of that sneaker mania thing because hip hop hardcore sneaker fiends street wear is hardcore and hip hip-hop is happening

that is like coming together like it was just happening at that time and so we were just very on that and it was identifiable within the scene and and different looking and when I went to high school

they didn't know what the fuck I was doing because I was like throwing this sort of strange pitch at them where I had a shaved head or blonde I looked weird. Jock is from the beginning of punk is the antithesis of punk. Right, right. And now you're making this whole group of guys making it. You're taking, you're bringing, you're horseshoeing it. Yeah. And so that was how I felt about it because I was obviously not into the jock mentality at all. Yeah. And if you listen to the lyrics of youth today, they're not, they're not, I mean, I think there's things that are, they're definitely not jock mentality

in terms of they're about human rights, respect there was one but it got changed which we just might yeah yeah but that was one they were starting off and it was cool it was cool it's still cool like it's still cool like we literally just might who's hard it's not even saying we're gonna but we just might and you don't know

that we will or won't it's amazing so I think that that was the thread you know like that that subversion and then also that it took you know like Nike Nike Adidas my daughter gets so pissed off

when I say Nike You say Nike? Sometimes Yeah I only do that because of the Esoson Rivok or son Nike video I don't know if you know that one Check that one out if you never seen it I was originally to me Nike

And then it became Nike Whatever it doesn't matter My daughter just like piss her off so much When I say Nike Were you ever disparagingly called a sneaker A sneaker? A sneaker A sneaker

This was a term That I read was a derogatory term For the youth crew guys Maybe they were calling you behind your back I really hurt my feelings I'm glad I never never happened to me But we were very into like sneaker culture Yeah

And and what would have been like I'm still into it Like I'm wearing fucking like to warm up Like sport You're swagged out of your mind Yeah you're pretty swagged up Yeah okay so I like I think that that

aesthetic just fit really well into it And it's really cool. Because when you look at, when you look at, like, when I looked at in my eyes, my own threat, I just like saw this dude. I didn't know who I'ma Kai was, but it's like, this motherfucker looks nuts, dude. He's just wearing a t-shirt and his head shaved. And he looks like he's coming out of a fucking concentration camp.

And he's got a microphone. And he just, it's black and white and just like the look of it. And then like, dance. And then you hear it. And it's like super aggressive, but really sharp. and well done. You know what I mean? Like the quality is there.

Not that I was like some like a music critic at the time, but I was into fucking cool music. You know what I mean? I was into like, I was in, or I heard Velvet Underground and R.E.M. or stuff like that, the Smiths before I heard minor threats. Right.

Which all landed to everything you've done in the latter half of your career. Yeah. And all those influences went into what I was doing with hardcore, even though it was like, primitive in what it was, but I think that that's the coolness of it. Well, speaking of, let's get to start today.

Yeah. Which is thematically and musically, even compared to youth of today in Warzone and the first Brillow Biscuit stuff, a giant leap, in my opinion. Songwriting, lyrical content, record album structure. Cats and Dogs is a song where I know every single word to. I don't know why. But it's just some of it is just written in such a way that that is very prolific.

How old were you when you wrote, start today? I was probably 19. That's fucked up. 18, 19. Yeah, that's not right. I remember it was finished. You today was going on tour in Europe. Was that the soccer team tour?

That was the soccer team tour. And we had this thing called Be Loud. Like, you just should be loud, like, Liway. Be Loud. Great song. And yeah, we would talk about bands that were loud and bands that were not loud. And Sam and Sam and. Purcell were saying like yeah

Coralbus is great but it's not really loud and I was like you fucking assholes so like we just ended up getting in fights they would just abuse me for that grill business not abuse me but just like subtly digging me and it worked but I think yeah but I just had gotten so much more

like putting out and you've probably experienced this being in your band and you're doing your songs and our songs fucking dope and then you play it for an audience and they're into it or they're They think it's okay or whatever, you know. And then you make a recording and then people hear it and then they come back and they're singing the words to you. And they know the song.

It's the best thing in the world. Like, it's not only a good feeling, but it's educational because you're understanding why it worked. So are you telling us that your writing Start Today songs based on what you're imagining people? I understood what made people move. You see what I'm getting in here? Yeah. Like I was in Youth of Today, so I understood not like. I was like, you know, drawing it out on a fucking chalkboard.

But like, I understood why these songs worked so well. And also playing the GB7 had come out. And we had our own energy going. So it was just more well-informed. I knew. And there was other records that had come out that I thought were fucking cool. Like, I really loved, and I thought we're pushing the ball forward a little bit. Like, Dagnasty, can I say?

Dude, one of my all-time favorite. record. I mean, he's taking all the cool shit about DC and made it contemporary and a little bit more, yeah, sort of, you know, it had hints of whatever was cool about, you know, say, right to spring. Yeah, yeah. It had touches of that, but it still had a fire to it. At the edge of Smalley. Yeah. It had Brian Baker and, like, I love. It was a perfect timing, you know, and it wasn't. So that record, so that record, was like, oh, you can do something sort of... There's a lot of different things you can do.

I can use octaves. Yes, exactly. I can express melody through octaves. And so that was very directly from Dagnasi or government issue had put out a record called You that I got into, like, right around the time that we started recording grill biscuits. And that was Jay Robbins played on you.

And I think Jay Robbins wrote a lot of the material. on that. And again, it was like, had the cool things of DC in this kind of like, I thought, progressive way that still was rocking me. And so I think I soaked up a little bit of that. And but also wanted to, lyrically, I wanted to like make like seven seconds sound like pessimistic. I just wanted to be like the most positive album. How was that received by your peers at the time? I don't know that anybody really... I guess some people would... If someone were critical of it,

I don't have a certain memory of anyone saying this to me, but... I think that's probably why the Be Loud thing bothers me. Okay, that was their way of maybe... Of, like, digging to dig at me, that it's not the Cromaggs, because, like, the Cromag's was like... Survival of the streets. Yeah, I'm surviving.

Like, it's brutality. Yeah. You know what I mean? Whereas, like, Gorillibis gets just basically saying, hey everybody let's not be so brutal you know what's funny is the song competition uh-huh which has whistling yeah is like

is like one of the better messages anyone can be I probably heard that record when I was like 16 or so I that's a perfect message to hear is like we need to work the the friend uh the list of friends on top

where you're on the list of friends to drop is like that's an amazing it's like yeah I don't need to be the best or on the top and here's There's this band who ultimately is their final thing and it's the culmination of all this research and work you've been putting in. That is a crazy thing to then yourself be writing when you're 19 years old. That's unbelievable. Yeah, I mean I was writing, I think I was writing to like what the scene and I think it definitely

sort of piggybacking on what I saw as like, Rays from Youth Today's like kind of mission of sort of like cleaning up New York City in this sort of like clean your room sort of way. You know what I mean? And that wasn't my way, you know what I mean? But trying to make an vision of like what the scene would look like

if it was how I wanted it to be. And I look at the scene tonight and a lot of the shows that we play and it's way more like that. I mean 37 or 38 years later, you did one LP. Yeah. And you're on top still.

Oh, man. You know, it's, it's, I, I think I'm so lucky, you know what I mean, that this, not only just, I'm lucky to be where I am today. Yeah. Not by myself. Uh, this summer's, I'm just singing the girl who's got a lot. But, um, it's, uh, that the hardcore scene continues to keep just re-energizing itself and re, um, You know, it's just, and I think it's like more valuable now than ever because there's so few things that are people based like this is.

You think hardcore is more valuable now than ever? I think so because there's just like so much niche stuff and so many things that are just, it doesn't make them, I can't assign a good or a bad label to it, but I think that a lot of the stuff is just, I just think hardcore is about community. You know what I mean? And I think people are so isolated now more so. Yeah, and that's just how it is, man. You know, people are like that. And to different people fight about it against it in different ways, or maybe not really at all.

But if you're going to be hardcore, you're dealing with people. Yeah. You know what I mean? You're going to be talking to people. You're going to be meeting physical humans. It's a participative thing. It's a participative. And you have any role in it that you want.

You want to be in a band, grab a guitar or jump on stage. Yeah. You know, you want to be a journal. You know, start a fucking start interviewing people. You want to be, you know, you want shows to come to your town. Book it. You know what I mean? And the information is, the tools are all there to do it.

You know what I mean? And like you said, on the first tour you ever did, you met all these people who still do those things they were doing. Yeah. Now at the top of their profession. Yeah. And Harkwell kids are silently running the world now. It's in all media. We're all there.

Yeah. It's weird. I think it's because those skills that people built from this young age and in this very on your own go-getter kind of way gave empowered them to have the confidence to, I think, work effectively in what the world currently is. I'm older than you guys. But like I thought my projection was like I finish high school, I go to college, I get the job. I do the job for a while. I get the retirement. Then I'm retired. And then I just kind of like,

we'll do whatever those people do. Like there is no way that's happening anymore for anyone. Like everybody's just like, oh, I graduated the college. Okay, now I got whatever. All this debt. And then I get the job. No, you don't get the job. You're actually going to do the job that you would have done without college.

True. Or you do get the job. And they're doing the job and you're feeling really cool about yourself. And then they have a bad quarter. So now you don't have the job. And things are not set up. So you have to be able to like, hustle and think on your feet and be creative and I think work your, in your communities.

You know what I mean? To be like, hey, I call this person because I, you know, I'm not really reading people's resumes, but you know what I mean? Like I trust certain people to do things well and I have a community. And if I don't know them, then some of my community would know somebody. Very much. And I think that it helps you. Last question I have for Gorilla Biscuits.

Coded messages and slowed down song. Yeah. I ironically, always wondered what coded messages meant. Coding messages like poetry. So just like be direct with what you're saying. Yeah. Like, yeah, I thought it was very much into saying exactly what the thought was.

But of course there's like poetry within that. Yeah, sure, sure. I'm saying it in a way that it rhymes or it puts, some image in your mind that like might help make the point but um it wasn't i guess i was like more protective of um the sort of straightforwardness of of hardcore and slowed down songs just like metal like yeah metal just whatever just you two style pop just i would i would rather stage that couple track. Yeah, like I'm here, it is in the voice of something that I even knew about myself. Like, I like coded messages and slowdown. So it's like, I'm into that stuff. Sure. But I saw it

as a sort of, I guess in the one way, I think it reads like a fuck you to anybody that ever changes or does something different. But I think if you, the subtext is like, that's fine, it's going to happen. It is going to happen. And Lord did it happen. Yeah. And like, you know, but this world, this community right here right now is about this. And, you know, I could have just as easily said, like, overly chuggy Yeah, of course. You know, of course. You know what I mean?

I could have, I could have had a bone to pick with that, too, because... How do you feel about overly chuggy time signatures, you know? Well, when they're good, they're good. Yeah. What are you going to do? I mean, leeway would do things that are like, you know, that would be something where people like, you know, friends that I have are just still will not like leeway. Yeah, sure. You know what you mean? But it's just like, dude, what are you going to do?

Yeah. It just is moving me. It's just good. It's just good. These, sorry, these records that we just talked about, the two Youth Today records, the two Gorillus Records, in the liner notes and the bands that you think, that was like finding an actual gold mine for young me. Right. That was the only way I could find more stuff like this. Yeah. And then find the stuff that you didn't think, but maybe those other bands thanked. And that's how I found Turning Point and Wide Awake and Instead, and Chain and all the other youth crew bands and anything that would fit there in. Yeah. How intentional was that? Or were you, like, were you trying to actively put other bands over? Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah,

because that's the, I mean, how I found out about other bands was reading the thanks list. I mean, that was like your best, a really, really good way to breadcrumb people to your scene. And also a good way to shout out the people that you respect and you're truly grateful to. Yeah, I would have never found YDL. You know. You thanked YDL. Yeah. Wow.

I'm just saying that these are examples of just like, of the community aspect. Yeah, I mean, because we were in the community together. Like, we played shows. We were all in the New York scene. So, like, you look at the New York. compilation the way it is it's a very wide variety of bands and they're all fucking good i mean every song on it's really cool um i just i i thought with wadiel i was like i think we were competitive with wadier i think it's in the seven inch yeah believe so i want to cross-reference the story

real quick yeah you're on tour a young a young man named widd gives you a shirt uh-huh for a band that doesn't exist yet uh-huh you wear the shirt uh-huh in chicago in chicago oh wow A young Tony Brummel approaches you and says, hey, I want to sign you. Uh-huh. He doesn't, I don't think he's put out a single thing yet. You say, you can't sign us, but you should check out this band integrity. Really? So you're talking to a label that doesn't exist yet about a band that doesn't exist yet.

Wow. And that got integrity signed to victory. You're welcome. That's what Dwyd told us. That's amazing. So if you still have that shirt, it's probably five, maybe five figures. I don't. Oh, yeah.

That brings me to a great question. When in your life do you start losing stuff all the time? I mean, like t-shirts? No, wallets, pedals, passports, and guitars. Oh my God. I've never lost, I've misplaced passport, I've never lost one. Okay. For you've forgotten a couple, maybe. Uh, yeah.

I travel a lot, you know what I mean? I'm moving a lot. So when you're moving, it just increases the odds of you losing shit. Yeah, but I think your odds of all the people that you know are. be a little bit more than average. Yeah. I don't sweat small stuff. Really,

the short answer. So, like, the Les Paul from We're Not in this alone or something, you know? Can I ask you about that? All you guys back in the day, I actually don't know what you played in Grill Biscuits era, guitar-wise? Fender Strat for the two albums. That makes sense. But with an EMG, so it was like a little hotter.

Like a metallic guitar. Purcell had a Les Paul custom. Yeah. All these guys had. had crazy 70s customers. He's impossible to acquire a guitar. How was that? I think it was more, I mean, that was a cool guitar then.

And he had a JCM-800, which I was very impressed by, because that was like an over $1,000 investment for a teenager, and those are like $1980,000. Yeah, right. That's like $600,000. That is, in today's dollars, yes. Yeah, he had a nice less Paul, but that would be, your only guitar. Like a lot of, like the chain guys had less pulls. There's just like

rich kids from California. Yeah, for sure. Okay. So it's just a money. I'm just kidding. I don't know. Yeah, he never. Probably. Yeah, he probably. Yeah. But they, um, I had got my Stratocaster from Arthur who sold it to me very inexpensively. Gotcha. So I maybe bought it from him for like $500 or $600. Okay. Uh, really, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, And I had that for a long time. I sold it when I was finished on a tour and I was going to go travel around Europe and I just didn't really want to carry a guitar around with me.

So I sold it, which I regret. But the guy that I sold it to kept it in the exact same condition. Did you get it back? No, I played it. He brought it to a show and I played it and it was awesome. And it was very heavy and I didn't see myself playing it. He wasn't offering it to me anyway. Oh, okay.

But this is the Gorillibus guitar? This is the Gorillibus guitar. I mean, maybe if I busted his chops, he would sell it to me. 100% I think he would. What's his name? And his address? He's in Holland. I forget his name.

Hello. Of course. He's a bow. Yeah, maybe don't tell it because maybe I should, I don't want him to find out of that I know his name when I try to sweeten him up. Sure. Butter him up to get the guitar back. Holland guy. I do always guitars and amps.

Those, I won't sell those. Pedals and stuff. Now I wouldn't. There's another, and my amplifier from that time too. Yeah. This is more, I had it through like Quicksand day. I sold that too for some reason. So you remember all these pieces of gear?

These two. And the amplifier, the head, the guy in candy plays it. Oh, okay. Chatter? Yeah, it's got to be chatter. Yeah, that's awesome. And it still says Walter on the back of it. That's cool.

Yeah, we played a show with him in Texas. He goes, hey, man, I got something you might want to see. And I was like, what? It's a 2203, I think, 800. 800. Yeah, that's the 100-1-1 one. That's a good amp. So I'm really happy that it's...

Still rocking. And that someone appreciates it. I have an 800 also 2203. It was the gin blossoms. Oh, wow. Not bad. Very cool. Look at us.

Here we are. So between Gorilla Biscuits and Quicksand, walk me through that time. How do we get from one to the other? Grill Lickenskins and Quicksand or Gorill Biscuits, we... I think it was like we put out the Savage's... The album came out a bit late, so we did a summer tour. and I think the album came out right at the end of our summer tour in 89 so we sort of didn't really like

it was just jointed and then Arthur left the band which kind of shook us a little bit why did he was you know we were going to college or we were in college I just felt he was like into different shit at this point you know the thing was we were just getting growing out of hardcore I think a little bit sure getting earrings that'll do it

wearing necklaces you know uh losing guitars just not as into you know wanted to go to clubs and meet girls and things like that I don't know regular club music clubs stuff that was happening life yeah life man you know so

and but he was also musically wanted to do something different wanted to do something more expansive so he started in band with with Drew and Richie so it was like a proto into another thing

Oh cool Tell me your thoughts on Into Another In 1990 You hear like creepy Epie and the early Into Another stuff Well I was very I was living with Drew

When they were making Into Another So like They would I was amazed by how long They would rehearse And how serious they were Yeah

And the other two guys Were like really good musicians So Peter Moses Peter Yeah and Tony and they were seemingly on the track to be like guns and roses. Like they were going major label, 100% world domination.

Wow. That's what they wanted or that's what seemed like was coming? That's where they were aimed, I felt. And there was no reason that it wouldn't come. I mean, I had no idea. Songs are... Who knows. And I felt it was off ultimately for the hardcore scene.

For sure. But was that, did they care about that? Was that the point? I think that they wanted to be a really big stadium rock band, but I think that they also didn't want to die on the vine, so I think they just started making records. Because I don't think they were just handing out... Guns & Roses' Contraising. No, I mean, and then they were on Rev, you know? And they were on Rev, and, you know, eventually they did get a very big record contract.

And I think it could have been a very big thing, but, you know, there's so many different elements. to why, you know, in any sort of field, like why something gets as big as it gets, you know what I mean? It being good is an important one. Pretty, pretty good. It looking good is important. Who tells you about it? The timing, all these things. There's probably like five or six pretty powerful things.

I think what they were doing was really great onto themselves and didn't have that sort of, it just went to some other band for some reason. that lane. But yeah, they were great. So Arthur leaves GB. You're growing out of hardcore. You have necklaces and earrings now. Yeah. Tell me about the formation of Quicksand. I think it started what we're doing, making the Start Today album. So I had to go on tour with you today. And we had finished all the music for Start Today, but we hadn't finished the vocals. So I had written the lyrics and I said, hey, try the vocals when I'm gone. Here's my vocal guide. So I sang the whole album

in like basically one take. Okay. And does this recording exists somewhere? Yes, it's called Wally Saves the Hit. Wally sings the hits. That's right. And actually Steve Ioki was the one that put it out, bootlegged it. No kidding. He confessed to me many years later.

And so having sung the album and people like, oh my God, I think this is really great, people that I had heard it because the cassette got out. I was like, hmm, why don't I just sing rather than sing and then have to show someone how I want it to be. Totally.

Let's just go straight from this to this because I'm getting some people think that it's good enough that I'm getting a compliment. So then I started doing, I did a couple of rehearsals with Luke and we made a tape called Moondog. And Moondog, I think we did one set song that got on a comp and people liked it. was good and some of the people heard the music off of this boot-like set and got good response from it so i said okay well i got to there's something here there's something here yeah so um that led to a moon dog show which kind of ended you know sam was in the band sam seagler he replaced luke who went away to college so luke wasn't really in e gb anymore and uh and then alex was out Which we, I put it up to just, I think it would have been like, it just wasn't, we just weren't that, I personally was like not feeling this forward motion anymore.

You needed to make the record, but then after that, were you fulfilled? I don't know. Maybe I just didn't feel Star Today too in me, you know, and, and, and, because so much of this other shit was happening. You know, I was, these guys, like Arthur was feeling these different changes. like this was not our career I never thought like grill biscuits was going to be like career oriented it was like something I was doing that I was into and excited about but felt um you know I was still going to like go to college and do some other shit yeah and so in the meanwhile I started just do other kinds of music that I was interested in and so that started to when the seven inch of

gorilla biscuits of quicksand came out it was just good timing like we were at sort of like related music, but like just at the end of it. Yeah. To where hardcore people got it, but it was a bit challenging in a way, but appealing to a wider group of people who just like rock music, I think. Yeah, because

it's a little heavier. Yeah. Is it down tuned? No, but it just was a bit heavier. It just was a bit heavier. It was a little bit more, yeah, more chugging. Yeah, and hooks, you know? Hicks, like more vocal hooks. And, you know, because I was into like Jane's Addiction

and SoundGarden and stuff that was coming at a sub-pop so that's where I was interested so I was no longer interested in like SSD and Youth Today and all youth today had already broken up and the scene was getting stupid anyway I thought at the time and the stupid it is maybe too strong of a word but like

Were there any bands at the tail end though that you did connect with like the raw deals and the killing time? Yeah I love shit that stuff like I love killing time they're amazing talk about heavy riffs man that's just like insane but the movement the scene movement, besides

what was going on with me, the way I saw it was like it was either like you were into youth crew so everybody's the same, everybody's dressing the same, like it's a success but be careful what you wish for. Yeah. Because all the bands sound the same, all the kids

look the same, and it's no longer subversive because no one else goes to the shows except for the kids at all agree. I got you. And the other side of it is the sort of of like, I don't know if it would be called the beat down, but this sort of like really like aggressive like 100% not that.

Yeah, yeah. So I didn't feel really at home there either and there was really like a lot of violence and people were getting like, you know when you're like a teen young, like an older teenager or a young 20 year old something like you'll knife some but I wouldn't ever do it. But you know people that are young are fucking, fucking crazy. And so the violence was like out of hand. Yeah, sure.

So that didn't appeal to me. So I didn't really want to write or be a part of either scene to... So Quicksand's goal is, I mean, your goal is essentially to play outside of hardcore for the first time in your life? Yeah, I think... Or to say something different within it. Oh, aside from not quite. Yeah, not quite. It was very proud, though.

A lot of people couldn't handle that. But I guess to kind of like venture out from it. And also, there was a lot of, also Fagasy was happening. So there was like another example of like, hey, you can play cool music that makes sense with where you came from. You can still be that guy. But you can expand it on our musically. So there was just a lot of things that were pointing to that. And that's where I was excited to go.

Okay. And ultimately, G.B. kind of like, you know, because we'd gotten more popular because the album, you know, we didn't really feel it in the same way, but we were still getting bookings and people wanted to see the band. How do you feel about it now? How to start today connect with you now? Oh, it's perfect. It is. Yeah, like I don't have like any, it's nothing I could possibly change about it. It's like, and I think that that's maybe unique for any record that I put out.

I always thought, oh, that could be a little bit. That record's absolutely perfect. How do you feel about slip? Love it. But it's not, it's not the record that I envisioned. Oh, why not? I just didn't have as much control as I would have liked. Did you have a producer?

We had a producer, we fired him, we got another producer who was more amenable and cool to us. And so I'm very happy with it and how it all came out. But I would have assumed, I would have preferred to record it at Don Fury, which... Fuck yeah. So that was, we did do some of the tracks at Don Furious because I just dragged my... I was a pain in the ass about it. It does sound very good. But that's my, that was my power, was really pain in the ass power.

where as opposed to like, let me cook power. Sure, sure. So my let me cook power got reduced. And so I had to start flexing my pain in the ass power. And that's how I got the Don Fury songs in there. But yeah, it was recorded. And there's probably like part of me that was just like not comfortable in that environment of like, okay, we're in a big major fancy studio and all that kind of stuff.

Who put out slip? That was on Polydor. Holy Lord. That's right. Okay. Big step up. Big stuff. You ever hear the tool comparisons?

I have heard them, but I was not really aware of tool when we were making music. You started the year before. Yeah, because you were around before. Okay. How about that? So that's pretty cool. You can always say that. Yeah.

And we started a year before. I would let them start the year before and trade with them for their career. But do you ever hear any of your riffs in other bands and think, oh? Once in a while. Once in a while. Once in a while. I feel, I have, I was one to see LCD sound system, the last record before the holiday, and this is my little fun one that I, I probably wrong about it. But like, I think that, um, Dap Punk is playing my house is a, is a grill of biscuit rip off.

You think so? That's all. I'm going to check that out. Okay, okay. I can hear it. Bam, bam, bam, man, you got big mouth. Yeah, yeah. And he worked at...

Tempo, all that. He made it more fun and more palatable for most people. But the lyrics from Big Mouth fucking rule. Come on. What are you going to do? Do you know, I think you are the only person, I'll have to ask my friend Moe who works with Riot Fest. But Riot Fest 2023, you played every day in a different band.

Yes. Love Riot Fest. Only person ever to do that? I think so. Because bands will do every day or something, you know, but he played every single day. Yeah, there's a plaque. Oh.

Is there a black? Good for you, man. There should be a plaque. Maybe we'll get you a plan. We'll see if you can find it. Tell me about touring on Slip and the response to the record. Touring was really fun. It was the most I'd ever done.

And I think it was really nice to be on a tour bus. And we had all the money that we needed to do all the stuff that, you know, I had like... That's just labeled giving you money? Yeah. Wow. Yeah, they had they were flush. I mean, you got it like, they had the whole... This is the time of CDs.

Yeah. So... Music made. And you could not download anything. So everyone had to buy it. The record labels were so flush from people buying CDs. And CDs was a higher profit margin. That was so cheap.

So I used to think, like, whatever money they're giving us, it's like thanks to Elton John. Yeah, pretty much. Because they're just, you know, we're going. Was he a polydome? Yeah, they had the catalog. So we would, you know, we're just getting car services anywhere that we wanted to go, eating out every night. it's nothing that not stacking at all

but like in the moment living a cool lifestyle for a person my age sure sure you know and being on a bus having all the shit and we would just hire our friends anyway and get to pay them like a cool salary and have a fun time and be comfortable so it was really cool

it was grinding after a while because I think we played like probably 300 something shows in a year in a year Jesus Christ so it was it would get grim Not grim, but like just, yeah, tiring in a way. I'm going to ask you a question a little controversial. How do you feel about streaming? Streaming.

Well, I would say I would rather it not exist because then I saw like a little meme clip about this where it was like, you know, I always thought that the bands that I'm in, like, Gorill Biscuits getting to make a record or having a record be popular represents the failure of like 10,000 bands. Yeah. That's a fact. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, that's a fact.

And those people, those 10,000 people went out and lived their lives and did all kinds of fun, cool shit in their own lives. And, you know, their kids are doing great now and all kinds of fun stuff's happening for them. Whereas now, you know, there's more bands. and I think that's really sweet and cool and all that. But the bands can't make money. The art gets treated more as advertising

or like it just doesn't have the same meaning. You know what I mean? The good side of it is I feel like more in control of my career, you know? Which is like I can release something or do something whenever I want. On the fly.

And I like that. I'm not like really you know I didn't grow up with computers I'm not like savvy I'm not really like trying to like figure out the fucking algorithm or anything yeah I'm just not that person and there's young people right now that are doing that and are smart to do it and I applaud them but that's not the fucking that's not the that's not the good that's not that's not rock and roll to me I want to make music I want to make music I want it to come out when when when on the terms that I want people to anticipate it in a way and they listen to it and they can talk about it and um you know, invest in it because if you invest in something, you're going to give it a chance. Dude, I've liked some shitty albums for economic reasons. That's like, I'm going to find out

what's good about this album because I think I might have bought a lemon. And some of them are just lemons. But like, that is, that's a great point is that if you invest in something and you have your $20, whatever would be now, $30 into something, you're going to sit there and look at it, read it.

I'm going to get my, my money's worth. I'm going to get my money's worth. Whereas skip, skip, skip. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, dude, this has been shoved up your ass online for like the last four months. I've been seeing every aspect of this thing and then you listen to it and you're like either

like, well, I already know it already or or like. That one song's good. That one song's good. The one song's good. These guys are fucking suck. You know what I mean? And then it's done. And who's next?

Who's next? You know what I mean? And that's not a critique of people. No. because people are... The entire music library of the world is $10 a month. Yeah.

And what do you expect? On the upside of it is, there's so much music that has been brought to light in my... Like, even in like hardcore or like 60s music, 70s music, that's like, how was this not the biggest song in the whole world?

You know what you mean? And it's like, I fucking love this song. I'm listening to this song like crazy. And I was alive for, when it came out and I had no idea. So, streaming is allowing me to hear that. So it's not like,

I think there's just certain things in the world where it just it is what it is and you got to like figure out your own way to relate to it. But like, if it were my choice, I would say let's all make a, have a big beautiful party, get in line and put our computers in a big ditch.

Love it. And pat it on the top and no one does it anymore. Love it. We'll press this episode on vinyl all. vinyl only yeah you know what I mean and then let's just see where we go and let's be nice to build communities and have conversations and you know not be so neurotic and self-conscious often is there a person or group that has come to you telling you hey quick slip was a huge influence on us that really kind of blew your mind yeah for tons for years deftone yeah I mean

it's not like as I would say to people I mean I don't necessarily consider a glazing but like what is, if something affected you and you met someone, you could play it cool and I think that's fine too. Maybe you just want to meet someone as a person and not get into what their work is. But sometimes you just don't, I'm not going to have any time with anybody. So you just say, hey, dude, I love your fucking music. You rule. That's the best. To me, like, got me through a time or it really influenced how I write or whatever.

People have done that for me. So throughout, I mean, I've been very fortunate that the records, you know, not all of them, but a good grip of them have found audiences that feel strong about them. We should probably hurry up because I know he wants to catch. And it actively going to see Hardcore.

I wanted to talk to you about working with Title Fight and on the record shed. Yeah. Oh my God. It's so fun. Will Yip, the famous producer recently put up a clip. I was producing this record. Of course, Will was working for me at this time. Was that in Concha Hocken?

In Concha Hocken. Magical time. It was just like, I'm meeting these guys, and when you're talking about someone being influenced by your work, that was a kind of maybe more MySpace era kind of time. I think I was living in Germany at the time. So this very young guy reaches out to me on MySpace, and he says, you know, I got this band.

you were gonna have a we want to make a record and we'd love for you to produce was it ned his ned yeah and uh and i remember meeting them in in brooklyn and going out to this vegetarian restaurant and they were all just cool sweet young guys

and that was the time to me that I was like this fucking rules that cool young guys like this are picking up on this kind of part of hardcore uh yeah and knew everything about it. And they were explaining back to me what it looks like to someone 20 years younger than me.

Sure. Or whatever. And it was really cool, you know, and talking about at the time of like streaming and stuff. Like I remember Ned saying like, you know, we get all this stuff at the same time. So it's like you're hearing this band lead to that band and this band and that band doesn't exist. Like we're getting it all at once. Retrospectively, it's all one thing. Yeah, so I found that really interesting and I think, you know, talking about streaming, like that makes room for a band, I think, like Outburst.

Yeah, big time. Yeah, big time. And there's other ones, but that's one that comes up because Outburst was, I thought, a great band and I played an Outburst by the way. Did you? Yeah, like a couple of shows or a few shows. And I thought they were fucking amazing. Yeah. But they kind of came out a summer too late, I think.

Yeah. Interesting. But if everything comes at once, you know, it's just about the music. 100%. That's why when we make our like tournament brackets and stuff, we'll do like best band of the 80s, best band in the 90s, and people will be like, this band was not big in the 90s. We go, yeah, we know, but retrospectively, is it not better than many other things? Yeah, right, yeah, of course.

And I'll look at old bills, old flyers and see grill biscuits like low on the bill. And remember being so grateful that we were on, that we even got put on the bill. Of course. And then, you know, the bands that were way above us are like, you know, whatever. Like, they're still cool, cool bands or whatever. But just like everybody getting something at once, it just changes that sort of thing. Anyway, back to Title V. It was just an all-star cast.

They had made some music. This was like, I went out to Wilkes-Barre with them and, like, we played in their, you know, I think Jamie's basement. and, you know, talking about lyrics and song structures and then we did the record at Will's, and Will was just so fucking cool. He rocks. And we just had such a great... Everyone was funny.

Those guys were just introducing me to, like, clips. You know, like, it's hard in the D. Oh, yeah, yeah. And stuff like... You know what I mean? Like, things from that. era like they were they got you on vine yeah they were just they were just up on all those clips and i had never heard of any 19 nine plus 10 you know that one 21 21 i'm not sure i know that one there's

another one with like um we're gonna know it whatever it is oh uh oh my god it's like a funny saying anyway there was a whole they just got me into all these clips it's gonna conjure clips um okay that's what they called them so i still call them clips i don't know i like it i guess we got to get you out of here, but... It was a lot of fun. It was awesome to, like, blend something of... And they were very, very open to things

that I would suggest, but I was also very careful to, like, let them cook. Yeah, because they, especially at that time, they really... Those are smart motherfuckers. They were white-hop.

Yeah. I mean, they were touring, like, non-fucking stop even then, and they didn't have an album out. So I think there's, like, no stopping them, but we, we just had... Me and Will Yip and all those dudes firing on all cylinders, making like a debut record and just being like open to whatever.

And you just basically, you know, I don't want to boast, but it's like an Ocean's 11 kind of thing. I can see it. It was like mad, deep bench. Science. Musical science. Yeah. Now is rival schools a big part of why they approach you about producing that?

I thought it was more, probably more sieve and just me being who I was. Yeah, yeah. Your catalog. Yeah, I think just that general thing. And I had produced some other stuff too. I'd produce some... I'd also produce the first step. Did you?

Yes. I didn't know that. Yeah. What we know? I produced. I should take more credit for that. I should. That's a sick-ass album.

Yes, it is. And they were flying the youth crew flag at a time where I think it was not the most in-fashioned thing. It was on its way out. Yeah, yeah. I found it interesting. Whenever the time that it happened was not what I was expecting to someone to be nailing that style so hard. Yeah.

And they were. And I fucking loved working with those guys. That was super fun. So like, I don't even know if that's why title fight was in any way, but I'm sure I would have factored in. For sure. I have a feeling it's for everything we just talked about for the last 90 minutes. To be honest with you. Yeah. As a final note here, could you let us know and let all of them know your four favorite hardcore records of all time? I mean, the honorable mention list would be vast. It always is. But I guess I'm going to go for the ones that first really hit me hard. and it would be suicidal tendencies,

first album, fresh root rotting vegetables. I mean, minor threat records are EPs. You can put them together. You can lump them as one. It's fine. Okay, so those. And I don't want to say it,

but I just got to say break down the walls. It's just so good. It's kind of like a blueprint for something. Amen. Yeah. So that's a pretty good setup. It's a pretty good list. honorable mentions though could go on forever there's so many fucking good ones tied down negative

approach album is the reason for the season i against eye bad brains album yeah he's a quickness guy i'm a big quickness guy i love it all yeah it's true um so many jude we love hardcore what we're gonna do we love hardcore what are you gonna do it's too late you realize at a certain point it's too late exactly do you have any uh final words you like to leave the people with uh everybody take care yourselves be healthy, try to make good choices, and be good to one another. Unbelievable. Walter, thank you so much for joining us. My pleasure, guys.

Had a blast. Me too. Well, have a great set, and we'll see you all next week. Awesome. Bye. This episode is brought to you by Mad Vintage.