HardLore - Will Putney (Fit For an Autopsy, END, Better Lovers)

Episode Date: January 4, 2024

Happy New Year! For our first episode of the year, we are joined by GRAMMY-WINNING producer/recording engineer Will Putney. Aside from being the master of the modern metalcore sound for other bands, he is well known for playing guitar in genre-staple Fit For An Autopsy, multi-regional supergroup END, and the spiritual successor to Every Time I Die, Better Lovers. We discuss getting his start as a recording engineer, his early, lesser known bands that spawned into FFAA, winning a Grammy with Body Count, re-discovering his love of touring, his studio Graphic Nature being haunted, early collaborations with Knocked Loose and MUCH more. Join the HARDLORE DISCORD: https://discord.gg/jA9rppggef This episode is brought to you by ATHLETIC GREENS! Try AG1 at athleticgreens.com/HARDLORE to receive a free 1-year supply of vitamin D and 5 travel packs of AG1. Get 20% OFF @manscaped + Free Shipping with promo code HARDLORE at MANSCAPED.com! #ad #manscapedpod This episode is also brought to you by MADD VINTAGE, use code HARDLORE15 for 15% off your order site-wide: https://maddvintage.com FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/hardlorepod/ TWITTER | https://twitter.com/hardlorepod SPOTIFY | https://spoti.fi/3J1GIrp APPLE | https://apple.co/3IKBss2 FOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/colinyovng/ TWITTER | https://www.twitter.com/ColinYovng FOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM | https://www.instagram.com/bosxe/ TWITTER | https://www.twitter.com/bosxe Check out our merch at https://knotfest.com/store/?view=hardlore Find all of our videos at https://knot1.co/3vWXsbx #HardLore   HardLore: A Knotfest Series, Fueled by Monster Energy Edited by Steven Grise • Title sequence by Nicholas Marzluf Join the HARDLORE PATREON to watch every single weekly episode early and ad-free, alongside exclusive monthly episodes. Join the HARDLORE DISCORD for community discussions and to participate in our future Q&A episodes. FOLLOW HARDLORE: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER, SPOTIFY, APPLE FOLLOW COLIN: INSTAGRAM FOLLOW BO: INSTAGRAM, TWITTER   For sponsorship opportunities, email us! [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Beau? Yeah. Let's make history. Hello, welcome. It's Hardlord time. How are you, Bo? I'm so good. Me too. Ask me the question. Who do we got today? Yes. I'll tell you who we got today. First ever Grammy winner on Hardlore. Can you believe it? No, actually. That's crazy. Neither can I. Grammy winning engineer, producer, fit for an autopsy, better lovers. And, friend of the show the godfather of modern metalcore, I call him. The

blacksmith of modern metalcore. He's at the smelting pot forging iron. Will Putney. What's up, boys? Thanks for having me. Oh my God.

Thank you so much for being here. How are you? Great. Great intro. What a fucking intro. Puffed up. Ready to go for this now. Pump that chest for me. I want you to... You're the chess guy, dude. It's more of like a... It's more of a hamstring guy.

Oh, okay. Calisthenics. You can leg calisthenics. You can bust those out too if you want. A lot of stretching. A lot of standing. Well, where are you at right now? Are you at News Studio or Old Studio?

I'm at News Studio. Old Studios is RIP. It's totally... Well, not, technically not. Old Studio is Steve Evans's studio now. Okay. Oh, cool. It's cool that it, you know, remained in a way.

From King to King? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was very happy to see that stay alive with Steve. It was awesome. Good timing for both of us to make a move. Wow, that's awesome. Well, that's really cool, man. You're welcome.

This is a long time coming. The first thing I want to really talk about is just the sheer volume of work that you do. I was looking at your discogs today. You tell me if this number sounds right. 436 credits does that sound right Jesus I don't know that's crazy yeah that might be right though yeah I mean we're busy

I'm not complaining I mean I am complaining but we're uh this is like my dream job got the opportunity to do it worked it up so I can get the chance to work with the type of bands I want to work with so I'm gonna do it you know I wasn't I was never one to kind of sit on my ass If cool shit came along and it was something I felt like I had to do, we just figured out a way to do it.

So we've made a lot of records here. Now, when you say got the opportunity to do it, how did you get the opportunity to do it? I think it just came from zero to ten, you know. Like for me, I was lucky to get in working under a producer early. I worked with Machine, who at the time I'd just come off a Lamb of God. and he was like one of the dudes in this world for sure. And, you know, I was like his intern and sort of like got my chops up learning from him and then started doing my own local bands, start writing my own records.

That's what I was going to ask. So were you already doing music prior to that? And you were like... Were you playing in bands before you were recording them, basically? Oh, yeah. I mean, I started playing in bands when I was like maybe 14. We just hardcore bands around here and stuff And I had always had a band

And had always tried to do stuff In that world I booked shows I tried to run a record label Like I was involved in music But it was always like You know it was always like a hobby Passionate thing that I would just do for fun

I was still going to school I was actually in college Taking music classes for fun Same kind of thing And wow Wow Yeah so the career path was never this It was like

I'm studying to be in engineer and like taking science classes and this was like an engineer engineer like chemicals and math and bio medical engineer was uh was where i was yeah boy it's a different funny how life works out but um you got the easier engineer job yeah yeah i was just i was interested in studio stuff i had made a couple records going you know with my bands and i always thought it was fascinating and yeah i just didn't know it was a light like a career to me it was like an option. Yeah, it was like, my band suck.

I'll starve to death if I try to pursue this. So I guess I'll do science and then this will just be for fun, you know? And then once I saw a door open where I was like, oh shit, I could actually, this guy makes a living off of making music that I like. Let me figure that out. And I just went hard that way. Wow. I do recall, like, early days, even with our bands, when you would go and demo something.

It was just that, like, oh, we could do it at my dad's house. Yeah, I mean, it was exciting to, like, the first time you recorded yourself and heard it back, like, on a cassette. I mean, I don't know how old everyone is here, but on a cassette tape or something and played it back. And you're like, holy, wow, I just did that. Like, I made a recording, you know. It's like making fire. Like a caveman making fire. I have been fired.

I was always drawn to it, you know. So, yeah, and then it became real. So I just went all in on it. Are you from New Jersey? I am from New Jersey, yes. Let me ask you this. As, like I said, the master, the godfather of the modern metalcore sound, what is your core of choice as a listener, especially as a New Jerseyan?

My core of choice was, oh, okay. So it's changed. over time. But my entry to hardcore was E-Town Concrete, Fury of Five, second and none, that era. Oh, yeah, it's the sweet spot. There he is. Now you're speaking to the heart, brother. Yeah. So that was like years of my life was just like that New Jersey hardcore scene, late 90s, you know, turning into the world of like shattered realm around here. Yes. I played in a band called Nothing Left to Mourn, which had some of those guys in it. So that was like the world I was in.

You know, I grew up on the, like, you know, my, I think my, my, like, seminal records would be, like, all at war for those who were crucified. Like, that era of, like, the crossover stuff when that started to happen. And that was my, that was my shit. I knew I liked you. Yeah. And now we got something special going on. Yeah. Etown has a, we'll always have a special place for me.

That's fucking the Michael Jackson of New Jersey hardcore in a way, you know. In terms of sheer. Michael Jackson of Ardo. I love it. Shout out to Aunt Monny. I don't know if he's a listener, but love the guy. They're vaguely familiar. They'll be on the show soon.

Etown episode coming soon. I love that. They had a great quote when they won the single of the year award. It was, what do you want me to say? Love that. So you said it evolved. What are you into now? So over time, that world changed a bit, you know?

I think this is not a knock on younger bands, but the stuff that emulated that hard stuff over time became, I guess, because it was very real and very scary around here, and it kind of got less scary over the years. And I got drawn to inherently darker music that just sounded scarier. Because, like, no shows weren't as scary. so I started to enjoy music that sounded scary. So sort of like the art, hardcore and power violence and like into the grind stuff,

that sort of became like more of my sweet spot. But anything that was like stuff that kind of picked a pace of bit, like I'm a big turmoil guy like where I was like, okay, this is still hard, but it's like a bit more dissonant and progressive. Progressive. Faster pace. Yeah. And now it's like, now I kind of like what I like everything now.

I've learned to let go of feeling like I have to stay in a certain box or any kind of subjohn. Imagine you have to as an engineer and producer. Yeah, I mean, it was years of just like give me the brutal shit. It's all I care about. And then I sort of, you know, I don't know when it flipped in life. Maybe I had a breakup or something that got sad or something. You know, I don't know where that flipped in my head, but I just started absorbing everything.

Well, it's interesting to think that way too because you're, I would say your catalog is so associated with a certain style, as opposed to a Neetown style or like anything that we've been talking about so far. But it took a while to get that for sure. Of course. But it's just like I'm sure people don't realize the background of Will Putney. You know what I mean? Yeah.

I mean, the first record I made ever was the Span Stuff for the Living, which was half of the Shattered Brown Dunes from Jersey. and then shortly after I made a banner record, which was like that same series. Those are like the first records I made, you know? Oh, okay. And I was like dead set on doing a hardcore band full. Like at the time, me and what the original version of Fit for an Autopsy was, we were trying to do a hardcore band in that world again.

And we just happened upon a singer who leaned more into metal. We're like, oh, let's try to do a metal band. Maybe that'll be fun. Have you had the same singer the same singer the whole time? No, we have, we've replaced, we've had the same singer for about 10 years. Okay, yeah, I mean, the original guy. Oh, yeah, I'm sure he'll love to hear that. He loves to hear.

He's awesome. No, Joe's great. I love Joe. He's just a monster vocalist. Yeah, he's got it. I see what you were doing there. When did Fit start? It started like kind of about 2006, 2007.

Okay. Like, kind of off of that band, nothing else to mourn that we were in. And we were just, it kind of started around the same time I was making records. And even like our first demo is one of the first things actually made at the studio. You know, like machine, let me use the studio in downtime and actually cut the four-song demo that started that band, you know. And was that, would you say the fit for an autopsy demo was one of the first things as an engineer where you were like, I think I'm pretty good. I might be good at this. I mean, I don't think any of that stuff is good per se,

but I think, I think, sonically, I don't think any of it was good, but I think I was starting to understand how to make songs that affect people at that point. You know, I just, I barely knew what I was doing. So to say that it would be awesome, would be crazy, you know, but people probably liked the songs that were coming out of the studio more than the production for a while. And then I think it caught up to its same. When do you think it caught up? What made it catch up? I don't really know. I just kept doing it.

Was there a record that you heard that final mix and master of that you were like, this is, you know what? This is good. I mean, I know early on I did American Violence, the Rain Supreme EP. Oh, okay. And that was like one of the first records kind of that was outside of, it was like not a New Jersey band. It was like one of the first records are kind of outside of my local friends in space around here. Is that the sticker one? Yeah, the sticker one.

Yeah, that one sounds awesome. And that reacted good and people were like, who did this? It sounds like one of the first times, at least in this world where I saw like, oh, people dig the way this sounds too, not just like what the band is. So that was a good early one for me. And I feel like that turned into a lot of stuff. Man, I don't even know. It sounds like 2008, 2008.

It had them in seven or eight because I had the shirt in high school and I makes sense. So, you know, it was a good shirt. I think 2008. But yeah, that was like, that was an early, like, kind of win for me. And I think, um, it was cool because, uh, it was like my first, my first go meet and Jay, I was a big blacklisted fan. And, of me and Jay have been friends for like, you know, ever since.

He plays an end. Yeah, bandmates now. Yeah. Yeah. Now it's like full, it was a really cool full circle thing to do a band with him after after that and stuff. Well, you and I have recorded together, which we'll get to. But and through that time, I kind of gathered what the backstory was, but we didn't really dive into it.

We were busy. We were busy. When you're, when you're, you know, do you have fit going on and you're recording a bunch? Like, is it becoming, are you getting too busy? Like, at what point does it, is it like, oh, shit, like, this is my career, like, recording? Yeah, I mean, I've definitely, I've definitely had moments where I was like, shit, I might be taken on too much. I got to figure something out. But, like 10 years ago, I saw myself out of touring full-time with fit.

It was like, we're going to get another guitarist for the band. And if I can't make a tour, I can't make a tour. And now I just don't go on tour. So 10 goes, it's like, yeah, the Tim who's like in the band, because we're like a band with six people, you know, and they tour is a five piece. He's great. It's fantastic. If I got on stage, I'd probably make it worse.

You know, so I'm like, it, it was. It created this thing that just works unbelievable on its own that I don't have to interfere with now. You know, and like creatively I steer the ship and I managed the band too. So I handle a lot of the vision that is that band. But I just can't do the touring. Yeah. It would have been one or the other. It's a cool model, though.

I like the day. It's a great model. Yeah. Because if you're right and then who fucking cares who's right. Yeah, who gives you a shit. It's cool. It was weird for a minute because I was like, man, I don't know if I, like, I'm watching. my own band play show. I was like, I don't know what I feel about it. And I was like, well,

it's this or it's nothing. And I love the guys in the band and it was like, I didn't want to have to leave the band, you know, and we had this conversation where I was like, look, this was like the fork in the road with the production stuff too for me where it was like, I'm now getting asked to make records all year and the band's getting asked to tour all year. I can't do both things. So what do we do? You know? And, you know, they rode with me and they're cool with the dynamic and it's like turned into this beautiful thing for everybody. That's amazing. You know.

That's awesome. And so you said the band started around 2006. When did you start recording even as a hobby? I'm trying to figure out how long it took you to go from hobbyists to... I didn't record as a hobby. I started recording in a recording studio. I mean, that's... I didn't know shit about recording other than what I had seen with my bands.

And I had taken a recording class or two. in school for fun. And it was, you know, I was, I worked at this, I had a little internship at this place called The Syndicate. It was like a radio promotion thing. They used to manage, they managed, they managed, like, shadows fall and poison the well. Okay.

Oh, cool. A bands like that back in the day. It was just something I was interested in. And the class, the recording studio that I had the class at, and that company, all shared a building with machine, the record producer. So, like, Word, they knew that I was, really into the stuff he was doing because at the time he was doing every time I die and I'm a guy.

Yeah, yeah. I saw Sepuletor demos on his desk when I was like, what is happening? You know, but all this stuff, all this, you know, word got back to him. Like, hey, there's this kid around. He's like pretty dialed in to your world. So he had a kid and needed an intern to kind of just start babysitting bands at his studio while he had some downtime. And he's like, hey, do you want to do this? And that was just the start of that relationship. It was timing. Pure time, place and time. What year was that?

He's like, it was probably 2005, maybe. So like nine years. Wow. Wow. And I didn't know anything. He's like, you know how to use Pro Tools, right? You just got a demo this band. They're just going to jam while I'm home.

And I'm like, yeah. Yeah, I got it. That was just scrambling. It was a couple months of just scrambling to be. Just lying. Just to hit the threshold. of like a sucky intern, you know. Holy shit.

I sponged it, I sponged up quick enough where it was like cool. And I think what he did, which was like a beautiful thing that I learned and apply that to when we take on people is he didn't care about the technical stuff. He was just like, I just want to be around musical people. And I just want, if someone's going to work at the studio, like that shit will come later. He just wanted to see that people had that sort of brain, you know. Right. And he was just like, you'll figure this stuff.

out. I just like that. You're musical. So we'll get there. And we do the same thing. Like when we get kids, you know, if we have interns or assistants, I'm less concerned if like they went to Berkeley or they worked 10 years in this other recording studio. It's just like, hey, here's some music. Can you, is this in tune? Can you hear this drum field? Can you hear that? It's just like I just want to see if people are musical. So he caught up on the, like you kind of knowing the unteachable things already. And that was enough to know he could teach you. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's kind of where it started. And then within a year, I was just like, it. I mean, I was, it's all I did. I would sleep at the studio. And I'd work for him for like a full day in a studio. And then when everybody left, I would just stay up and try to figure out stuff of my own. Really?

It was a crazy time. Were you working? Like, did you have another job at the time also? I had like, I had like bullshit jobs just to pay bills. But I was like, I was in a. Because I had school bills, and then I had, like, I was living in Jersey on my, like, in, like, apartments, which is expensive. And so I would try to, like, bartend or work at coffee shops or try to make money booking shows, which I don't know if you've ever booked shows. But that's, don't do that.

All right. I made 83 bucks. Yeah. Yeah. So I would, I would just scramble, you know, to try to just make ends me while I was, like, getting all that done. You see, you know, he took care of me a little, but it was like, dude, I didn't. you know, an intern, I don't know anything. He's not going to like, you know, I didn't have the salary.

Oh, that's the purpose of an intern is so he doesn't have to do that. Yeah, so it was rough. I mean, I learned not to sleep and it was, it was wild time. But we got through it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you did. Before we get to bands and stay on bands, I have some rapid fire questions for you. Okay, hit me.

So get ready, all right. Okay, I'm ready. Best drummer you ever recorded. Ooh. Best drummer. Ooh, that would be Aric from the band Night Versus. Night versus. Not a hardcore band, more of like a Prague metal kind of band, but he's a freak.

He's like 101. Good job, Barre. Definitely one of the best in the world. They're on tour of Tool this summer. Well, there you go. It's like one of those. There you go. Tool hears you and goes, that guy's pretty good.

You're probably pretty good. Yeah, yeah. Have you ever sent a band home for not being ready? Yes. We don't have to disclose the name. We never get into that, but God, that gives me chills. It sounds so bad. Oh, it's terrible, but it happens, and it's happened more than once, for sure.

Sometimes, you know? Yeah. You ain't ready. All right. Have you ever had a trigger or edit a drummer's performance so heavily that might as well be a robot playing? Yes. Perfect. Sure.

And band you're dying to work. with. Oh. Ooh. Dying? I want Metallica. That's the one. Fuck yeah, dude.

And let me tell you, Will, I want you to have Metallica. Yeah. I want to have Metallica. I'm going to try. I'm going to try next time. I think I think I'm going to actually try. I say this respectfully. Metallica needs you.

Yeah. So I want Metallica because of the like room for improvement thing that I feel like I could bring to the table. I mean, Metallica is one of the greatest bands to ever exist. But they're not, you know, 25-year-old kids anymore. So it's like, just put somebody young in the chair, even if it's not me. Just put a young person around. Yeah, they need Bo Rock to get in there.

Fix them up. Bo Rock. Exactly. Okay, yeah. That, man, Metallica, if you're listening. If you're listening, yeah. Lawrence, you're listening. will, he's qualified, okay?

Because let me tell you, you don't have to, when you write a song, Lars, if you're listening, when you write the song, you don't have to do the whole song twice. Twice. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? You barely, you can do one and a half verses, done.

Done. But anyway. You don't like five verses? You guys like five verses? I was just talking last week, I think, about how like you don't even need verse three. No, you literally don't. You don't.

Verse three needs to be bridge. Verse three, if you're going to do verse three, you got to like, you got to piss all over it and make it be like, what, what? It's covered in piss. Yes. The piss take. Exactly. I miss the classic Metallica Bridge. They don't do it.

They just do another verse. But all the old records that had the seven, eight-minute songs, you got a journey half a year. I mean, it's just those are the best. When you think about the song. We're not here to disparage the greatest band to probably ever exist. But when you think about Master and you think about the building into the solo into the like that build and that payoff, which is a direction that you couldn't see coming. No.

That's what makes the whole thing. So it's just getting someone to tell them that. Someone to tell them. They need that when they put a note for note Lenny Kravitz riff in a song that. Yeah, dude. You hate to see it. It doesn't need to be there. But now it's fine.

Will, I think the job is yours. You know, they covered that song, Colin. So at their icons performance, they cover, are you going to go my way? So maybe it was like an intentional bit? I think it kind of was. Because I heard that and I went, you took this man's one riff? Yeah, it's a cool riff, too. You took the only riff he's got.

Anyway. Yeah. All right. Well, that was fun. Good question. Let's go for an autopsy. Let's start there. The journey.

far. You know, the band started in 2006. How did you find each other other than nothing left to mourn? And what were the first couple tours the band did? So, yeah, most of the band start was from Jersey. And then we hooked up with a lovely fellow named Nate Johnson. He used to sing in this band, Deadwater Drowning and spent some time in Three Eyes of the Dead. And he wanted to do a new band. His bands had dissolved at that point. He had a buddy Seth, who was also in that band. He played in the Casey Strain for a bit. He's like, I want to do a band with this guy. And we had three of us. And we're like, okay, let's just do it. So we kind of like hung a bit, demoed, wrote stuff. That was that first

four song thing. Did a record pretty quick after it. We wound up getting picked up by Black Market Activities, guy from the Redcords label when he had that kick in. And it was fun. We were like in that space, doing a lot of shows locally with the bands that were on that label, architect, the network, that kind of like more chaotic stuff at the time and kind of leaned to what the band was doing. And then we sort of started getting some tour opportunities. I know the first tour we did, we tried to do our own tour, didn't go so well. Then we did a support tour to this band Molotov solution or good buddies that were like more leaning into that death core space and stuff.

Were they from Vegas? Yeah, Vegas band. Wow. And then second record, we wound up sign into another label and kind of leaned a little more into some of the classic metal influences. And it started to pick up, we started to see a lot more opportunities outside of just like noisier bands and stuff. Was this good fight? Yeah, E1, good fight, like that era of stuff. Yeah.

We did a couple records on there. Band just grew steady. did a lot of stuff in the death core space just because by default that was just sort of what was popular is like what we could tour with suicide silences and white chapels and that kind of thing

then we signed a nuclear blast we're on our second record there bands sort of evolved into we're trying to just be a proper metal band and do more stuff in that world so we spent the past few years doing things like we have a god and kill switch tours and you know we just

finish a headliner with Exodus and Darksour and Undead. That was awesome. So now, you know, we're, we're, we kind of play between, kind of play between both worlds and trying to figure out what's next. But it's been like, uh, we're never a hype band or anything like that. It's just a thing we grew slow and steady over, you know, I always say if you're like, if you're a band without a gimmick and you can just be good for 10 years, then you probably figure it out. Like, then something, something probably cool should happen by that. You know, I feel like you're trying. Yeah, right.

If you, if you rock so hard that you, like, Musugah, rock so hard, they don't have to move. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Just some lights and fucking play a riff. But, yeah, we want to be, we want to be a lights and play the riff band, you know. I like it. Amen. Yeah, everyone's getting older and like, fuck it. You know, that's where we're at.

And, you know, it's good. Morales high. Everybody's fucking stoked on doing the band. still creatively we're in a good place. And yeah, I look forward to where it's going. Seems like you have a good tight-knit group of people in the band. Yeah, we've all, I mean, these dudes have, we've all been together for a while now, you know. I mean, everyone who's in the band's been here for at least 10 years and everybody knows each other

and what each other's flaws and things are. And so good. You go through your band therapy stages, the growing pains and stuff. and then you're just like always on a page, you know? Yeah. It's nice when you get there and you're like, all right, it's like I could tell these dudes how it is. Everyone could talk shit to each other without it being a problem.

I don't know. Everyone's just a grown-up, you know. You got to have a little roast, roast. Mutual roasts. I don't know, you'd be surprised how many bands don't get to that level with their communication and shit. Because, you know, I've had every version of a band through the studio, and there's some bands that just, like, don't know how to talk to each other. It's crazy, man.

And it just makes problems. You got to dish out wedgies every now and then and keep each other in check. Yeah, I'm sure you know how. Anyone who's, like, a real dude just, like, wouldn't have time to deal with shit like that. No, you know, you give out some wedgies, Will? I give out some wedgies, yeah. Who's the wedging guy in Philadelphia? Who's getting the wedges?

No, no, no. It's like group wedgies. Oh, nice. Not like a literal wedgy? A circle wedge. No, because Anthony gets wedgies all the time. I'll tell you what.

Me and Pat, who's the guy who's the guy who's the guy who started the band with? We've had, we're at each other starts from time to time, but we're like brothers. So it isn't like, you know, we'll scream at each other and then call each other and be like,

all right, so tomorrow we got to do this. So that's kind of like a sibling relationship almost. Like yeah. Fuck you. What's for dinner? It feels more like that. Yeah.

Fuck you. What's for dinner? Where did the band name come from. Is it like a sexy corpse? No, and I hate the band name, honestly. I tried to change it so many years ago. The band name came from a band that wasn't even our band. It was the original singer's old band. We didn't have a band name. And he's like, well, we're not going to do that band anymore. We're like, oh, fuck it. Let's just use that. This won't affect us in 20 years, you know. Yeah. Yeah. It's fine. When I say I hate the name, people are like, no, it's not that

bad, but I could see that they know that it's bad. I think, yeah, it's that. Oh, dude, it's not that bad, you know. Sexy clips, I get it. It's cool. When people ask where the name came from now, we just say death was taken. I'll just say, look at that. So, like, fit for, so it means a body is now ready for an autopsy.

I'm just trying to actually dig into what the, what the band name means. Yeah, I guess that it means that a person is dead. Yeah. In a sexy way. Yeah. Yeah. I don't get the sexy thing. But if you think it's sexy.

Fit bird. Fit bird. Oh, fit. Like in shape. She's fit for an autopsy, my God. Yeah, okay. Fuck, I never looked at it sexy. All right. Damn. You look fit for an autopsy. All right.

Oh, no. Sorry, that's going to follow you maybe now. Death already taken is really good, though. That's great. I like that. Yeah, thanks. So let's just go with that. Yeah. When I say favorite tour, in terms of fit for an autopsy.

I know them days is over. Your touring days is over. Like Forrest Gump. Right. What comes to mind when I, like the one you think about and you go, you know, that was awesome. I mean, the first tour. The first tour I did with the band was the coolest. Wow.

Even though it was like, even though it was bullshit. It was like we were on tour with our friends. This band called Bassinate from New Jersey. And it was like my first tour. And I always remember it as being, holy shit, I'm on tour. Like, this is insane. It's very pirate ship. It's very like, here we go.

Yeah, it's very, very fun, the early ones. Yeah, it was just something, I think because I never thought I could do it. You know what I mean? It would always just seem unobtainable to me. Like, fuck, man, I'll never be in like a band that goes on tour. I got too much shit going on or my band's not good enough. That that was just being able to do it and get home. It was such an accomplishment.

And we had so much fun on that run that it was just like, I don't always has a special place. Beautiful. Tell me about the Grammy win. Grammy win was weird, man. It's fucking strange. We've been, uh, I've been up for a few and I didn't think, uh, this was not the one I thought we would, you know, um, because I did some stuff.

Yeah, I did some stuff with Gojira that got nominated twice. And then I did the previous body count record got nominated. And they got invited to play. they do like a Grammy pre-show where they give out all the less popular awards. Right, right. Like best metal performance

and like best jazz duet and whatever, you know? Yeah. And it's like, it was at the garden and it was sick and we went, did the sound check and they're playing. And then they tell us like, you know, we're sitting at the award show.

Everybody goes up to perform and they tell us, okay, after body count performs, everybody go right here because they're about to announce your category. So we're like, oh, shit. They're putting us right next to the stage. Like, we're 10 feet from the guy who's announcing the awards. And they're like, okay, everybody's staying right here. We're like, holy shit, I think we won.

And then they're like, and the award goes to Mastodon. And then we get ushered off like the hook comes out. And we just get ripped off the stage. And everyone was like, what the fuck just happened? Yeah. But, so I was like, all right, if we didn't win that one, you know, that was the shot. We're never going to win it. And then, you know, fast forward like to the next album, it's COVID.

And we're like, I didn't even watch the Grammys because, like, I don't know, some fucking crazy world event was probably happening. I was just, everyone was at home and they were like live streaming the Grammys and stuff. And then my phone starts blowing up. Like, yo, body count just won a Grammy. I was like, how? What? But that means I've won a gram. Wait a minute.

Yeah, I was like, oh shit, okay, that's cool. Yeah, and then I went back and, you know, and I was like, well, let me get a clip from somebody, you know. So I wasn't, I really wasn't expecting it, especially like, I mean, I don't remember everybody that year, but I know, like, Power Trip had a nod that year. Yeah. I was like, they're going to fucking win this. For a live song, when, this is how, like, weird the academy is, like, they put out a song that year. Yeah. The live version was nominated.

I don't know. The choice. I'll never fully understand it. I have a little insight into how the Grammys work, and I still don't. I think it's not quite put together. Sure. It's not the most in touch all the time, but, I mean, it was cool. It was still cool to see a band like that just be nominated.

Yeah, I agree. And then I was like, we did a song with Riley, like, on the body count record. And they chose, and they chose, and it was like a single, too. And, like, there's a video with ICE and Riley and stuff, and I'm like, just pick that song. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. So, I don't know.

The whole thing was, like, surprising. But it was like, it's cool. It's, like, the type of thing where, like, your mom's proud of you. And it doesn't really change my life, but it's definitely, I don't know, I never thought it would happen, you know. It's amazing. Yeah. I appreciate it. I don't think, you know, I don't know if it happens again.

I feel like that's a one and a lot. Who cares, dude? Even the nomination asterisk is like something you carry forever. Fuck, yeah. Did you get any cool, any cool swag gift bags or anything? I got a plaque. It's a very nice plaque. And then I was told I was getting one in the mail.

And then it just never showed up. So we'll see. Amazon's got them. I'll send you one. Yeah. Well, they said, ice is going to make me like a, he's like, I got a fake one for you. I made for like my homies. I'll get you one of those.

Nice. Let's talk about ice tea for a second. Yeah. Can we? Yeah, he's the fucking best. That's the best news. I'm now on my third full rewatch of SVU, and let me tell you.

Let me tell you, Will. I love this man. Yeah, he is a treasure, an American treasure. How did they find you? I was, I did a lot of work for a label that signed him. And my buddy,

Sean Keith, who now runs like Sharp Tone, they were looking for a pretty, because, like, we got to reinvent body count for modern times. I haven't put a record out in a while. Right. He went to bat for me. He got me to meeting with him and everything. So I, like, I guess he had talked to a few people, but I kind of, I think he liked that I understood the lineage of body count, like, what it actually came from.

I don't know if he had connected with another producer that sort of knew the world where it was actually from. Gotcha. So he would, so that's, that's like kind of what got it done. And then we just started working together and having stopped. It's been great. Did you write a good amount of this stuff on both those records? I mean, I'm pretty involved. They take care of me like a band member, you know?

As like a, I know they definitely value my creative input and stuff. I'm handsy with the band for sure. But it's like, you know, a lot of it is ICE's vision. Yeah, yeah. It's like the storytelling and what he wants to do and the type of song. like it, a lot of it just like goes through his lens. Did you record the suicidal cover?

Yes. So the Xbox lines and stuff. Oh yeah. I would have screamed. I would have been like, yes. I was dying. He's making I'm vegan and he's like writing parts making fun of fucking vegans and then laughing at me.

Like the whole dude it's he's the best. That's awesome. Is there, could you give me some insight on some some kind of modern hardcore metal bands that he's into? Oh. He loved, I know he loves Power Trip.

He's pretty big on, I've showed him, like, I've showed him stuff that was like adjacent. Like, oh, he should check out like terror. You should check out. I know he like straight from the path

because that's got rage similarities and stuff like that. He's pretty big into like the New York hardcore stuff. That was like his, I think because that's kind of, that was partially his intro to that world too. But like, yeah. Ice pick track he's on? My God.

Yeah, he'll get down with a madball record. He's a Jamie Jost fan. You know, like he's he kind of lives in that East Coast shit too, so I think that's why we... You ever hear this? You know what I haven't done? I haven't showed him E-Town. I feel like I should. Dude, you got it. I know, I will. Next time I see him,

I will. Have you heard the Six Feet Under song he's on? Yes, I have. That's one of the... That might be... And this is a spoiler for when we do a best guest spots episode of all time. episode. That might be number one. Is that

is Chris Barnes always in six feet under? Yeah, he's that's like Yeah, that's like that's his thing. Wow. Wow. And it's even more apparent because when I start saying you're like, God, can't I just have this? Just do this. I love it.

Anyway. Body count. Wow. Grammy winner. Unbelievable. Do you have plans to work with them again? Yeah, we are like kind of in the middle of a new one. So I'm almost, almost done with it. It's been a bit in and out because the writer's strike.

Oh, right. You know, body count's cool in a, it for him because he only does it because he has, it's fun. He doesn't need to do body count. Like, the dude's clearly got his main gig and stuff. Yeah. Which is awesome.

What a gig. Because it just makes it so pure and fun. But it also has to take a back seat when it's time to, like, film television shows. shows and stuff. You got SVU spoilers? You get them early? No,

no, I can't be doing that. No, no. Do you have a favorite moment, Colin? What do you say? Do I have a favorite what? Favorite SVU moment? Dude, I mean, okay, so there's a John Mullaney bit about ICE's character,

Detective Odafin Tutuola. And it's basically like in, in every episode, there's a moment where Finn, who has been a detective in the special victims unit now for better part of 20 years. Yeah.

Which is, the whole thing is that it's sex crimes. Right. Like, that's the thing. That's what they do. That's the show. And there'll be a thing where it'll be like a pedophile, you know? Yeah.

And Finn will be like, hold up. You telling me this guy gets off on touching kids? It's like, well, yeah. Yes, Finn. And that, every time that happens, or also when a criminal's like making an escape. Yeah. You know, but ICE is like body blocks him from leaving. And he's like, I don't think so.

Those are my, that's what keeps me coming back. Oh, that's good. I love it. I like when the district attorney lady, the blonde lady. She like. They're both blonde, Alexandra Cabot or Casey Novak? When Alex, when one of them disappears and one shows up. Like, but then because we think-

Cabot disappears and Novak shows up. But she doesn't really die like that thing. Yeah, I loved that part. There's a couple of those. Yeah, I know. It's good. It's a good show. Spoilers.

S. For you, spoilers. Maybe the greatest procedural drama in the history of television. Anyway. Anyway. Let's talk about End a little bit. Sure. How does this multi-regional supergroup come to be?

End started as a thought for me. I'd worked with Brendan a lot with counterpart. parts and for fun. I was like, hey, you want to sing on a fit record? Because we were recording around the same time. And she's like, yeah, maybe I'll try this new heavy voice thing. And then I hear Brendan for the first time do some kind of low voice over like down-tuned guitars. And I was like, oh, that was cool. And that just banked that for six months. And I was like, fuck, I kind of want to hear that again. I mean, honestly, it was

the way fit was headed. The band was getting more like kind of traditional metal. And I found myself being pulled away from it. I'd go sit down and write a song and I feel like I was throwing the kitchen sink at songs because I want all this like dissoning chaotic

hardcore shit because that's just my shit. And I'm writing music and I'm like, yeah, but now it's like losing its way and this sounds like two bands. And I was like, what if I just do another fucking band and lean into this stuff, you know, because that is like at the time when N started, and it's kind of still, it's sort of like my, that's like my sweet spot for when I want to listen to aggressive music now. I like the grind and power violence stuff and always never got to do a band like that. And so I just called up some people that I had worked with or

were friends with it. I was like, hey, if I do this band, you'd not convince this guy to be in it. Would you be in it? And then, what if I got, what if I got this dude to play a would you sing like you know and that's like kind of you know j from rain supreme yeah obviously because i knew when at towards the end of rain supreme he was starting to really lean into that stuff too he was like trying to go that way with rain supreme a little bit um Greg who's i met working with misery signals who like wasn't doing a band at the time we sort of we have so many parallel interests with heavy music i was like man he'd be perfect and um this dude andrew who were friends you know it came together as just people who i knew like this stuff

that weren't doing it, you know? And it was like a thought experiment almost first where I was like, even if I just get this out of my system, we do an EP, put it out, I don't know what the fuck will happen with it. So everyone, like, kind of knew each other or knew of each other, but we like met at the studio. I was like, just making a fucking record, you know? And it was cool.

We all became, like, great friends real fast. And that EP did all right. We started getting asked to do shows. I would say it was wildly successful. Yeah, a little better than, it was fucking everywhere. It was cool, because it was like, it wasn't a joke, but it was not a band. Like, it was never, it was not serious. It was like, the music was serious, but it was like, we're just going to make this thing and then go back to our day jobs.

And then it went good and we're like, fuck, okay, let's do stuff now with it. So, you know, start touring, playing shows, writing records, and it's like snowballed. Now, you know, obviously we're real into it now, you know, especially me and Greg, like, because we are like, this is our outlet for this kind of stuff. We want to creatively, it's one of the most fulfilling things I do. You know, and I love making those records. I love playing those shows. And it became like a cool reason for me to get out of the studio, too,

because that's the first project since I stopped touring with it where I'm like, cool, I'm going to go back on tour and stuff. How do they feel about that? They gave me shit for it. They gave me shit for it. Oh, that's cool. You're going to tour your other fucking band? Yeah, cool, man.

Yeah, yeah. And now there's a third one. Yeah, now there's another one Yeah I think when we did post-human I think End was like You were talking about it Yeah, it was like

It was like baby inception That was the inception of N was right around then Yeah What was the writing process Did you write everything Or was it you and Greg

Or was it Me and Greg are pretty We're pretty hand in hand on it We'll do a few He'll do a few We'll do a bunch together We'll fuck with each other's songs We're kind of both

like it's very collaborative with the two of us on that it's like our baby you know um cool and i loved i love writing with him it's awesome tell me about working with justin just justin's great he's like the guy in this like i don't want yeah i mean if i if you're a hardcore band he's the guy who should put your record he just let you do it full artistic freedom and he's like i always call him like dude uh what do you think about if we like did this and i know it costs more but But like, I love you. Yeah, it's great.

Yeah, let's do it. I wanted to ask you, the new record art is one of the craziest things I've ever seen. Oh, dude, the layout? Thank you. Yeah. What the fuck. Thank you.

Yeah, we were like, I just wanted, I mean, I like packaging. I've always been a vinyl guy. And I was like, man, let's just go fucking crazy on this. We've spent enough energy in this record where I wanted the visual component of it to just have that. I want to know the cost on that motherfucker. Yeah. I mean, I got the opposite reaction. Well, not, I mean, knowing Justin, I thought he would be stoked.

But I was like, I was calling him to convince him that we should do something insane like this. And then he was like, dude, I love it. It's awesome. I can't wait to do it. Oh, that's his dream. That's his dream is to have bands who care enough to be like, can we do something different? Yeah. Yeah.

And Alex is the guy who did it. He's just on a whim. I hit him up. And I was like, he had never done an album cover. He was just like this visual artist who had done these 3D things and I was like, hey, I'm in this band and blah, blah, blah.

He's like, yeah, I fucking love it and this would be awesome. I was like, the fact he actually knew the band too and was in our world, I was like, just by chance, we were able to get out of the box with a new artist who kind of liked the band. I don't know, it was just really cool,

collaborative thing that worked out great. It's one of the most striking album art layouts that I've seen in recent memory, for sure. Like, it immediately grabbed. We spend some energy on it. Yeah, it looks awesome. Well done. Tell me about making post-human together, guys.

Tell me some stories. Post-human was great. Post-human was great. What do you got? We all speak about it very fondly because it was the first time that we went and stayed. So the way graphic nature or machine chopper or whatever. At the time, it was graphic nature, right? Yeah.

The way that it was, was there were, there's a live, there's like multiple booths and a live room upstairs and then like bunk rooms and a kitchen in the back. So we went and lived there for like three weeks-ish. And it was the first time that we had ever done anything like that. So it was like very cool, very exciting. It was also the first time we did real pre-production where we sat with Will. We had sent Will demos that we did in Madison and Milwaukee or something. We sent him them.

He had notes. Then we just played through every song with Will right there and like went through every song. And he added the becoming machine breakdown. It was it was Will's idea to go back into the, that, I guess it's the verse. I don't know what it is. Yeah, it's the verse. That's kind of the chorus. But then the chorus is done, done, dun dun da become a machine.

You know, maybe it's a, it's the refrain. Yeah. So it was, we had it ending just on the wane and and fade out. And it was, Will's like, I think we should go back into that. Thank you. Yeah, broke my heart. No problem. Happy to help.

Among other things, we also wrote Last Man kind of with Will, like all together. And that's like second or third song, right? It's the second song. Yeah, we wanted something because, you know, the first song is a little longer. So we wanted something kind of quick and upbeat to kind of. break into it. And yeah, I just, it was, dude, I'll never, it was like, we would wake up, have breakfast. We would go to Steve's around the corner, get some eggs. Oh, yeah. And go and, you know, track or record, whoever was doing what that day, finish up, and we would always eat with Will during the day,

finish up, go work out, cook dinner, watch Game of Thrones, rinse and repeat every single year. So just summer camp. Literal summer camp. And it was like, saw, a cool experience and so fun and felt like it was the first time we had done something outside of Chicago outside of Bricktop so it just felt new and fresh and exciting and and Will was very patient with us will also um tracked guitars with us in a way that I had never done before where and Will I mean this with all due respect but he was when if if Colin hold up your air guitar like you're tracking hold up your real guitar like you're tracking okay real doneable yeah R2 V-2?

Yeah, that you love to play. It feels so good. Will's... Shout out to Donable. Yeah, look at that. Dunnable. Will's looking at you and watching your hands

and making sure that you're playing it right and then like also muting strings for you behind your fretting hand to make sure nothing's ringing out. You do that? You do all that? Yeah, I get in there. I'm very, uh...

I'm a giver, dude. I want the good performance, you know. He's a guitar player. Oh, okay. You're behind me going, don't hit them fucking bottom. Don't hit the, yeah. He'll lightly mute it. And also, well, the way that will, the way that will track stringed instruments is so enjoyable as a guitar player.

It's like, run through the song. Run through the song again. Run through the song again. Of these three takes, we got it. Oh, that's good. makes an amalgamation of the three, generally speaking. And it's just so, like, there's not a lot of stress. There's no, like, punching in where you're going to kind of perform differently.

It's all very natural. And I just, I loved it. He has a great selection of guitar heads. I had a great time. Well, what do you remember? Yeah, it was all right. Yeah. I was going to say, Will, do you like this?

You like Hormsway? No, I love Hartsway. It was a blast. Harm's one of those bands where it was, like, like the vision was so clear that it makes the record so fun. Because for me, like half the battle, not half the battle, but it's like what I consider one of the most important things is like, I want whatever I record, I want it to have its own identity.

Want it to be unique, stand on its own. When you hear a band, I want you go, oh, it's that band. Like I know that's their sound, that's their thing, you know. And these guys came in with like a vision that I liked. And it was like, man, I don't have to like pretend. I don't have to like cook something up. We don't have to find that. It was like,

fuck yeah, we're doing this. We all agree. We're on a page. You know, and then it kind of makes it so fun because everyone's working towards a common goal.

And it was, yeah, it was a great experience. Everyone's good. Knew their shit, rehearse. They're a real band. Now,

how often does that happen versus a band coming in and saying, just make us sound like knock loose, please? I mean, it depends. I don't,

I think I've been lucky lately where it's been bands that have their thing I feel like anytime there seems to be a pattern if I do a record and it kind of pops or whatever that then I'll get called

for like hey can you do that thing you know and well then that's a testament to your work absolutely no it is it is cool and I'm very flattered and I'm more so prefer to like take on mixes like that but if I'm like gonna produce a band I'm like well you do

your thing you know I don't why do I got to copy their thing that's their thing Don't you want to hear you? Yeah. So now I kind of try to just do like, yeah, okay, I do like, I do these Knock Loose Records. So like I don't want to do another band that sounds like that because it's, I'm like, I want to give it to them, you know. Yeah. And I feel like, you know, over time I've just been like, yeah, I already do a band like that.

So I'm not going to do this. Yeah, you can be a little choosy. And it's helped. It's helped like focus for the bands that kind of rode with me that when they weren't the big band, band or anything like that. And it's like, well, you earn that, that care. You know, I feel very like, I feel like I owe a lot of my success to bands and the work that they do too.

So I don't take it for granted that I'm just going to give that to somebody else, you know, after they kind of put the work in to build that sort of sound for themselves, too. Did you do low teens? I did, yeah. So that was a big, not that I'm remembering, that was a. big thing that was like, oh, he did, every time I die's record low teen sounds very different from, I think, their prior records. And you did, did you do the one right before it, Will? I did low teens and radical. Okay, radical. Low teens, I think, was like a sonic departure

from both like stylistically a little bit and also just like sonically. The production was so fucking cool. And that was like a huge, that was a huge push for us to want to do post-human with Will. It's because we really, really like the way that that record sounds, we really like the way that the drum sounds sounded on that. And I think that that's like a testament to like, that's every time I die was a band that was super established and had their thing and was was very much in their lane and who were always willing to kind of try other things and like try to be different and try to like, you know, do there be every time I die. And that record is kind of one that stood out for me. And I think that that is a testament to what you're saying is that like you are

in a position now where you can be a little choose, more picky about what you're trying to produce and what you're trying to make. I think that that's like the coolest position you can be in being a producer, you know. It is nice. It's made me sleep like a baby at night because, I've been on the other side of that where you take a money gig or you take a band just because you need to, you know. And then I just like live to regret it almost every time. And it's, it just, it just eats at my soul. I don't know. It's not for me.

You remove the passion. And then it's, then it's work. If I have to be convinced to do it, it's like, I just know I'm not going to, I'm not all in on it. I'm not going to do the work the right way, you know. Right. So what are your thoughts on graphic nature being haunted? I knew it. I knew this was coming up.

Okay. Before the haunted, can I share one Harmsway story? Please. I don't know if Beau knows. This is like one of the... This still lives as like one of our funniest moments. Oh, shit. I don't even know if you know this.

I'm in, walking into the kitchen. Okay. And I'm being quiet. I don't know. Maybe like somebody was tracking in one of the rooms or whatever. and I could walk around the kitchen and I was just like seeing if anyone was around and I see James

at the table and he has a 24 pack of eggs open at the table he's just sitting there and he's just staring at him and I'm like he's just fucking staring at eggs like is he doing? And then I'm like I'm just saw Mike just watching

James watch eggs for a quick second and I'm like, yo what's up man? And he's just like oh I'm like are you just look at eggs and he's just like, yeah, I just really like eggs. And he just goes back to staring at him. I was like, all right, cool. And I'd be like, to this day, if we're like at a diner or something, it's like, do you want,

yeah, I just really like eggs. Like, it still makes rounds all the time. I need to say at the day of recording, it is James' birthday today. So happy birthday, hi, May. You'll hear this late. I love James. James. I hope you get some eggs.

Hope you get, hope you have all your eggs today. I wonder what happened to them eggs. Whatever happened to those. Oh, they got eight. I could tell you, they got to eat. Dude, something, something that would happen is,

is Nick would, would drink a little bit. He'd get a little, little tipsy, and then he would just be like, hey, who wants to eat? And he can cook,

he was vegan at the time. He could cook eggs and meat better than I could. Wow. He's a really good cook, and he worked at a, a co-op where he cooked professionally and like, dude.

Every band needs a fucking line cook in it. I love that. Yeah. Chef in a band is a treat. Light cook, riff cook. Nick is the complete package. Everybody needs, you need one, you need one or the other. Nick had this cool ability to make every song major, too. Dude, it's crazy.

I really do. Have we talked about safe space on the record, on the show, Colin? I think we have. Yeah. Safe space? Yeah. You won't let us play it, but I understand why. It's got to be on the deluxe reissue in a couple of years.

Yeah. Yeah. That thing is unbelievable, dude. Yeah. He's talented. So I've heard, I've firsthand heard stories. Brian Garris shared the story. So have we.

It's on the show. It's documented in our biggest episode ever. To us, Will. So I, you know, we didn't experience anything, but I would love to know. So there's been rumblings that the studios haunted. I, uh, up until it was, I've heard about it for years. And I was like, yeah, I don't know, whatever. I don't really see anything.

I'm here all the time. Um, and I've heard it from. several bands. Obviously, the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, story is pretty well documented. I, uh, I never put a ton of stock. I'm like, oh, it's just bands being silly. It's all good. Um, one day, I'm writing an end song.

And the power kind of does the dip thing. I was like, that was weird. That never happens. Okay. And then the radio comes through, uh, the guitar. And it's, and we're talking about, somebody who is going through like a hard time right before it me and Greg were sitting there writing

and this radio station just starts playing and it's a lady who goes are you going through a hard time God cares for you are you going through a hard time God cares and I'm recording luckily I'm like I got the button going and this comes through

through the rig I'm not even in an amp so I don't know how I'm getting ground noise like I'm in a plug in a computer Yeah. Yeah, that's impossible. And I'm like... Not impossible, but...

Okay. Yeah. And it's fucking on the end record. It's the start of that song, The Hesitation Wounds. That's literally like some spooky thing that just popped in the studio. And I just remember recording and going,

fuck, man, just fucking haunted here. I was just like... Wait. I actually had one. So now I'm like, all right, maybe it's a little fucked up here. I don't know. Bellville's crazy.

They used to make war shit. I don't know what's going on. Dude, so you're telling me the Will Putney STL Tone Hub pack available is part of the haunting? I was haunted through it. That seems impossible. I don't know how it happened. It's amps that pick up that frequency.

I know. That's why to this day, I'm like, that's never, I've never gotten radio through a pedal into a plugin before it's never happened. Oh, that's irrefutable. I dare you're fit. What was Brian's, was it not, similar. It was the power and then a radio went off. He had the power thing.

Yep. He had the power thing. They heard the sound. Yeah. I don't know, man. I don't know. Jury's out, but I will say that like late, the cool thing about the studio too was like, well, when would you usually clock out? Like

five, six in the evening? No, probably later in that, I think. I think it depends. You're right. You would go until, you're right. My mistake. So basically, when we done for the day, Will will go home and we were just kind of left to our devices there, we could like go and go upstairs and practice and play and like do whatever we wanted at full volume because it didn't, that's all that was there, you know?

Yeah. And the area that it was in, it was like totally normal. And I will say that like when the lights were all off and when it was dark, it was just a spooky big old room for sure. So like walking from the bunk room to like the stairs to leave is definitely like a, kind of thing. Taking out the trash at night type. Exactly.

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I don't miss much about the spookiness. I'm in the woods now, you know? Yeah. And it's like nice and I got mountains in nature.

But there was definitely something to the unsettled nighttime vibe there. Well, I mean, you got the Blair Witch around you now. So I wouldn't get too good. Yeah. I'm in like hereditary. What's that red light over there thing going on over here? You know. Yeah.

How's the new studio? You loving it? I love it. It's awesome. Is it done? Yeah, pretty much. I mean, it's always, everything's a work in progress forever, you know, but we moved here and like right before COVID pretty much and just kind of turned it in, converted space into studio space, living space or bands and everything.

I mean, it's awesome. The living space. I fully can maximize time and it's just so much chiller and there's more room and stuff. It's been awesome making records here. The living space for bands thing is so fucking cool. It's such a huge bonus if and when you get to utilize that because it just takes away from everything. You can literally just only focus on the product.

It's so cool. Yeah, I love the like move in, isolate vibe. I don't like distractions for records. If we want a day off, we want to go out, have fun, that's cool. But it's like, I like taking some reality away. It helps like kind of narrow. your thought process a bit, you know. Well, I wanted to ask you about something.

Yeah, what do you got? I believe, now, I think this has been talked about on another podcast, so we don't have to get too in depth, but I wanted, I want to bring it back because it's loose in my memory. You did a stray record, and you did

a thing where you played an amalgamation of horrible noises into the isolation cabinet. Yes, I did do that. And what was this called? What was the game called? This is so stupid. Colin, do you know this?

So we had this, there's this thing called the death riff. Do do do do do do it. It's just a shit riff that shit bands play that, you know. How does it go? Do do do do do do do. Here, pick up that sweet Donable. The R2V2? Yep, yep.

And then starting at the bottom string, go. give me 7-8-7-8-7-8-7-8 go up the strings. Yep. That's it. So do-do-do-do-d-de-it and then go back down. Yeah, that's it. Okay.

It's a garbage riff. So we just call it the death riff because this just makes you want to die. Anyway, yeah, we, Tom and the gentleman in Strait, we like to gamble. And we thought it would be funny to place a bet on who could out. last somebody else listening to like torture music in these cab iso boxes so the whole bit in the short was we played the death riff pitched all over the place for whom the bell to bass line also out of tune over all that people screaming uh everyone's stripped to their underwear hands and feet tied thrown into iso boxes completely black kind of hard to breathe

probably should have checked if oxygen was the thing, like beforehand, a little scary. And then we had a couple of Mesa boogies just blasting this like MP3 that we made, like fucking Guantanamo torture music. And everybody had a little cable. Somebody was sitting on the couch in another room. And when you tapped, you pull on the cable and then somebody comes in and let you out. So like you don't know when the other guy leaves. So it's all right.

Last man standing wins the pot. And you don't know. Think about that. You don't know. Yeah. Chaos. I think we all threw on like a hundred bucks or something. Wasn't too crazy.

And then, yeah, I won, clearly. Because I could fucking stand any torturing me with music. You're being tortured. It's my job. Yeah. How long did you make it? Yeah. I took a nap, actually.

That's how I knew I won. I woke up from a nap and I was like, dude, I got this. Wow. And how long were you in? Three hours, 13 minutes or something like that? Yeah. That's awesome. Dude.

You got to have fun, you know, you got to have fun. Yeah. I could have beat you. I went to Alcatraz the other day. Yeah. Oh, shit. You know damn well, my first thought was, I could have made it. Oh, dude.

I could have made that. It does. When they, I did a tour there once and when they described, like, this prison was particularly brutal because you could hear the city. Yeah. Like on good nights, you could just hear people out. You could always just hear people talking because of the wind and the fire. And it's just like, oh, that's so brutal. I could do it.

That's brutal. I'm different. I'm not much of a swimmer. You can make the swim. You can make the swim. It's the current, though, that fun. I'm worried about the current. All right, all right.

Believe me. All right. Be harder, I guess. I'm like, okay, I'm swimming. Like a regular swimmer. I can make. Let's talk better lovers. Yeah, please.

Better Lovers, cool. Better Lovers was what formed out of every time I die, obviously. It was so pretty much after the split, those guys all had intentions of continuing. You know, like the four members of Every Time I Die that wasn't besides the singer. And they were just going, writing, doing things. I was still involved with those guys and bouncing music back and forth. Didn't know what the hell was going to happen with that. Of course.

Andy was like still in the mix. Like they were just going to do this band, find a new singer. Wouldn't be called Eid. We'll just move on. Right. And, you know, I'd been making the records with them for a while now. And it was like, cool. I'm in.

Whatever it's going to be. Let's just figure it out. That sort of progressed to where like, what's demo these songs? We got kind of like an EP that might feel pretty good. And then we'll shop a singer or just like figure that out, you know? and towards the end of that they were like yeah Andy's not really involved

don't know what's going on yet we'll see what's up and sort of up until like the day they were coming to the studio is like is Andy coming? Is this going to be a thing? Yeah. And love Andy. He's just, man's fucking killing it. He's on TV. I think he was maybe holding out on kind of letting him know he didn't want to do a full-time band because of that too.

Yeah. It was one of those things where it was like everyone, you know, everyone's so close and loves each other. And he's just like, I didn't want to let you guys down, but I don't know if I can do this. Totally. Sure. They're like, all right, Jordan's got it. Jordan's brilliant guitarist.

And we just came in and made the record kind of those four songs without him. Not sure where that was going to go or anything, you know. And it was like, cool, let's try some singers out. At this point, I was just in the role of a buddy producer helping them with songs kind of thing. but I hadn't really there was no talk of me doing the band we weren't really sure if there was even going to be another guitarist

you know Greg popped up as an idea for frontman so they sent him some songs and we heard a little bit back and I was like yo we should do this like Greg's a fucking animal and that very quickly turned into like him signing up going to the studio

recording shit and me getting these songs as these songs were finally getting done and stuff. We were just sort of like mutually flirting with the idea of if I could do the band and stuff. And I was like, man, if Greg's in on this, I think I am too. Oh, wow. Yeah. And it became this like, all right, am I doing this fucking, am I playing guitar or what?

Yeah, yeah, are we doing this or what, you know? But it was like, yeah, I got, you know, I was like, luckily where the world is right now, I feel like tours are happening. they're coming together further than records are. Used to be like, hey, we're ready to make a record and then we'll plan touring. And now I get calls like, all right, we got our European tour here and this,

so we need an album by this side. So it's like, we got winter 2025 locked in. Let's get started. I was like, all right, well, if we can stay ahead on the touring and shit, I'll just figure it out. You know, because I was like, I really like making music with these dudes. And I saw this as an opportunity to like, you know,

do a full-time band for probably the first time in my life, which sounds crazy, but like, end is not a full-time band. Everybody else has other stuff. Brendan's full-time with counterparts. Matt, who germs is now full-time with T. Casey's strain. You know, Jay, open a barbershop. Greg, produces records like me. Like, we're not touring 10 months out of the year.

It just can't happen. Yeah. And better lovers wants... Yeah. It's just to get it out, you know? Play what we can do and move on. and better the lovers wants to go. And I was like, you know what?

This is my last shot to do this the way I was looking at it. 40's fucking creeping up on me. And I was just like, fucking I'll do it. I'll just go for it. I love hanging with these dudes and playing. And I was like, this will be the, this is, I'm looking at it. It's like, all right, I'm going hard for the last time with this. Yeah.

Do you think you took any of your traveling for granted earlier in your life? I think when, so when COVID, like stopped and the world opened back up and went on tour like a bunch which I hadn't done for a long time at that point we did a full U.S. store, we did a European tour, we started to do shit and I loved it I was like man I fucking love getting out of the house

like who didn't after COVID you know I think the first show back we played was like Furnace Fest and I was just like dude I fucking love playing shows like what have I been doing you know Like, and then I was, so I was like, you know, that didn't go away, really, you know, it wasn't just like the honeymoon phase of that come back. I was like, man, I fucking like getting out of this chair and playing and fucking jumping into a crowd and going, you know, and it's like, I, uh, it just like hasn't, it hadn't really happened for me full time ever, you know, I've done, I've made a ton of music.

I've, like, worked on a million records, written a million records, but I never was like a full time touring guy. And I was like, let me, well, that's my, that's my, that's the fucking phase. of life I want to be in now, you know. Interesting. It's funny how it works that way, because I'm like just now getting that itch again after being like I'm pretty good on even playing, you know? Really? Yeah, dude, I thought I would never do it again.

I mean, I thought I'd play a show or two here and there with the side project, and that would be it for life. And then I was like, you know what? Let me jump into this. See if I'm missing anything in my life, you know? And I don't know. It's been like really invigorating for me to be that act. again with a band.

That's awesome. When I come home, I'm more focused on records. Yeah. I just love it. It was really, really fortunate for the opportunity for that one. Part of this interruption, we have some very special messages for you. Colin, what is that shirt you're wearing? This very sick into another shirt I'm wearing.

I got from Mad Vintage. Mad Vintage. What is that about? Mad Vintage is a website you can go to right now to get badass vintage, hardcore metal, punk, rock, all of the, et cetera, tees. That's right. He's got all kinds of stuff. It's all cool. It's got all the measurements on there. You don't have to worry about nothing. You have to know your own body and then you got to worry about what you want because he's probably got it.

And you better hurry up because we're going to probably buy it before you. Yes. You can use code Hardlore 15 to get 15% off anytime. And he wanted me to say that he's also always looking to buy stuff if you. You got stuff you're wanting to offload? Hey, Mad Vintage might be your back. Keep an eye out. Maybe he'll have some stuff from my personal vault. We'll see how I'm feeling.

If you want to feel good all the time, you better rock Mad Vintage. You know what else makes me feel good all the time, Bo? You are a professional. I know. Athletic Greens. AG1, baby. We're the biggest fans. Tell me about AG1, Bo.

AG1 is unbelievable. It is a supplement that I take every single. goal day. And it's as easy as an 8 ounce glass of water and a little scoop from a jar. That's it. A little scoop of yummy powder makes me require. I need less coffee in my day. I have more

energy. I was my daily vitamin antioxidants, I was screwed before. Now guess what? I'm not screwed because AG1 fixed me right up. I don't know what I would do without this thing, especially as a part-time

traveling show and as a traveling musician. Yep. We work with what we got, and generally what we got are soft, crappy bodies filled with the worst stuff you can possibly intake. AG1 changed that for me, genuinely. And if you use the very special link in the description of this episode, it'll take you to AG1.

You can get five free packets of AG1 that you can take with you anywhere that we are. We're about to go to Florida. I'm taking some with me. You will, you will, if you stop me at FYA, the first person that stops me at FYA and asks me for a packet of AG1, I'm going to give you one. Boom. So whoever listens to this, if you find me at FYA, I'm going to give you a packet of AG1. And you also get a year supply of vitamin D, vitamin K drops, which I was looking at my bottle today when I took my AG1. They really mean a year.

Let me tell you, because there was so much in there. It's unbelievable. Gorgeous. Today's episode is also, as always, brought to you by Manscapes. I love it. Listen, if you listen to hardcore and punk, you probably stink a little bit. Yes. It's a given.

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Back to the episode. I got some shots out of a cannon for Will. Oh, shit. Okay. Yeah. I got some. Shoot them. What are your top three favorite guitar heads,

to record with. Top three guitarists. I like a classic 5152. That's kind of my baby. I like my Friedman JJ 100, which is a pretty cool Marshawn steroids kind of amp. Right. And then number three, I don't know.

Those are like, those are probably my two favorite. Are you still? And then it kind of, then it'll kind of depend, you know. Are you still sweet on the Archon? Yeah, he gets some love. I've been torn with that, actually, and I like playing out of it. We'll go PRS for number three, yeah. Okay.

All right. Are you a solid state man live? No, I'm a amp guy live. I'm running two heads into two six by 12 cabs, like a psycho, and I love it. Power. How do the Eton guys feel about that? I feel like they were the ones that put everybody on to the, like, D.I. Solid State heads?

No, Jordan's. a marshal guy. He just runs two 8-hundredths into two Marshall cabs. Him and his dad built this fucking weird-ass marshal cab. Yeah, our stage looks like a garage show on Amazon cabs. It's awesome. When we toured with them

in 2017, the best live guitar tone I ever heard was they each had a marshal going through powering a cab. Jordan had another marshal going into like one of those red box D.I. Splitter things. And Andy used an archon to

do the same thing, and front of house would blend the cab with the DIY mix? That's cool. We did a similar thing this summer with the rigs. They were pulling some lines. I think we did some UK shows like that. But yeah, lately we've been just rocking two amps each. It's been awesome. Is that what you do for better lovers too? Yeah, that's the better lovers. The end rig is, the end rig we're both using 50150s. Okay. When I saw you, I didn't get a chance to actually see any of you guys, but I came to watch you guys play at the Salt Shed here in Chicago. Was that Under oath? Yeah, that was the summer. That's right. That was that, that one. You guys sounded great. So that would have been that rig. So that adds up.

Yeah, that was like our fifth show ever maybe or something like that too. We were pretty green on the band now. So I'm looking. You got to see it. it next year. It's, it's, it's better now. Yeah. I've yet. I haven't said, oh, wow. Better lovers, better now. New album coming soon. It's better, better, better, better lovers. Yeah. Were you a big Etid guy before working with them? Yeah. I've always been a fan of the band. I like all, I like many versions of Eaton, you know, from when they first started to where they are now. So it was cool to hop into that timeline for sure. Is the writing more collaborative now?

Are you in the mix big time as a writer? Yeah, we have a lot of... It kind of works like N similar with me and Jordan because we're both, we both crank songs out. So like he'll do a few, I'll do a few, we'll do a bunch together. We're actually, we're about to start recording new material. Wow. And we're just all going to get in a room and do it.

Cool. Because I've done so much writing for projects just in a computer by myself. It's pretty rare. It's weird. It's like I haven't had a band experience. You know, like, I was even telling them. I'm like, dude, I don't even remember the last time I fucking sat in a room with all my dudes and our shit and just wrote a song on the floor like that.

Same. And it's like, you forget that that's just the what you're supposed to do it that way. It's conducive to making good art. Yeah. I mean, I like my tools. was like I'd like being able to isolate and get ideas out with a laptop or at the studio or whatever. But it's like there's some, there's the other side of that too. Like, cool shit can happen in a room with people.

Nothing beats a fella just playing some drums. Yep. And then you start riffing over that and then they do a cool drum thing and you go, I'm going to do a guitar thing with that cool drum thing. Yeah. Dude, I actually think there's nothing better than when a riff is kind of figured out and then the drum part completes it. When the drummer figures out, oh, what if we do it this way? And you just go, oh, that's such a good feeling.

How good is a good drummer? The best. It's the most important thing. Oh, you finished it for me. Thank you. Yeah, it's good now. It was boring when I thought of it. I mean, it all hangs on that being the case.

I think I've taken Chris for granted. I've only ever been in bands with Chris as the drummer. And I think he's a very good drummer. and I've like taken that for granted so much, you know? Yeah, Chris is awesome. It's very telling when you work, like, because I've seen the best and the worst, it's very telling when you get used to a good drummer and then a bad drummer shows up. And it's like, oh, fuck, everything's worse.

And it's your fault. It really is. I mean, like, that's, it should be the foundation of the band, the drummer being pretty good. Other than a vocalist, it's number two for me of why it's sick. Yeah. It's definitely, drummers are, a good drummer is a gem. Yeah, because they're so hard to find two.

Every drummer is in four or five bands. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. You ask some best drummer to work with. Who would you say is like the most impressive guitar player you've ever worked with? Most impressive guitar player. That's tough. Actually, uh, there's a lot of them.

I don't know. Everyone's got, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, it's hard to fit. It's kind of hard to pin one. Hit me, hit me with a riffer and then hit me, hit me with the noodler. So give me the, the noodle carb heavy. Shreddler of the year. The keto. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Shreddler of the year.

Sean from The Artist's Murder is a, is a big riff that he's got a really good picking end. And it's some speed on that that a lot of people don't. He's definitely up there for me. I'm a big fan. I like, and then there's like, you know, I don't know, other people have, there's a lot of different layers to guitarists that make them cool. I like John from this band North Lane that I work with for like sort of the out-of-the-box creative stuff that he does with guitar.

Nick from Night versus another band. Everyone's check out Night versus, if you have. Yeah, it sounds like it. It's a very, it's not a hardcore band, but it's a very talented band. He's got some tricks that no one does, you know, where it's like shreddy, but it's cool. You still like it. Yeah, I don't know.

I don't do a lot of wanky guitar guys. It's tough. Not a lot of solo shredders. Yeah. Shout out to Buzz from Earth. He's a really good player. Dude, Buzz is awesome. And he's a hell of a bags player too.

On Warp Tour, he would fucking, him and Ken would just send people home. They were so good. Buzz can fucking, Buzz can rip a lick. He's got a few in there. Wow. That's fun. You know, these are the things that only you get to witness so often. Yeah. I mean, you get to witness too. We all get to see these bands. That's true. You can tell, I mean, that's part of one thing that I'm like now is almost mandatory if I'm going to work with a band is I got to actually see the band play or at least get a video or something.

I've been tricked by that in the past before, but it's like, you know when you see a band if they're the fucking. shit or not. Yeah, for sure. It's like, it's very, a live show can be very revealing in this world. You know, and I feel like take a lot of, I think it weighs a lot of me too if I'm going to work with a band. I think in this visual age we're in, that's half the battle. Yeah.

And I don't, I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing. To be honest with you. I suppose it's a good thing, but there's so many times I've read stuff like even about my band or I've felt that way about other bands that I've grown to be a fan with. It's like, I didn't get it, and then I saw him live, and it was like, oh, okay, no, I got it. Yeah. Yeah. There's definitely been, I've definitely been not so hot on a band and then seen them live and been like, okay, I understand this now.

This is, now I get it, you know. And I think the other way, too, or I've loved the band, went to see him live. And I was like, oh, fuck, that band sucks. Like, maybe I don't, maybe I don't like this band. Maybe I like that producer, you know. Yeah. Right. Oh, wow.

Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So, but yeah, before I work with a band, I get a gauge of how hard my job is about to become, if I can see. Wow. That's research. Yeah. Wow.

Good job. I like that. Smart. Speaking of Will Putney, the guitar player, we have a question we like to ask all of our guests. Okay. The question is, who do you do? Meaning, let's say, me as a guitar player, I do Eddie Van Halen. You know, I do fucking

Doyle. Okay. Who's Will Putney do? Who's the guy where you were like, this guy? I'm going to try to implement some of this. And not just like visually, but just your vibe. Who are you subconsciously pulling from?

I'm subconsciously pulling from the brothers and at the gates all the time probably. Fuck you. Sick. I'm a little Kirpaloo fanboy. Who isn't? I like, what would Kurt do here? That creeps in every once in a while.

You know, shout out to Kurt. Love Kurt. He's the best. I used to pull more from, like, I kind of like the Russian Circles guitarist. I get a lot of inspiration from him. Cool chord progressions. Love to tapy stuff.

I do, like, I do pull some tricks from. Are they from here? I feel like that tricks. I've seen him bopping around. Yeah. But, uh, Swedish. Yeah. Yeah.

Classic Swedish mellow death bands In flames, haunted, soil work. So you're a Gothenburg man over a Stockholm man. I'm a Gothenburg man. Those are my early riff daddies when it comes to that kind of stuff. And then if I'm a Stockholm man, because they go, they go 7, 6, 3, 2. That's it. Yeah, yeah, there it is.

I like 7-8-4-1. I love 7-8, dude. Doodling, do you. Yeah, right. Bro, you fuck with 7.8. I love 7.8. 2-1 on the A and then 3-2 on the E. That's Stockholm, baby.

You know what's so confusing at the greats, at the gates part is like a lot of the riffs are pretty, pretty complicated. I think it's, what's the first song? Is it blinded by fear? Yeah. The part this, dun dun dun dun dun dun da-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d. It's fucking fast. I always thought it was triplets.

I thought it's not. It's not just down straight picking. Oh, that's hard. That's even harder. It is even harder. We did a cover. The triplets don't add anything there other than technicality. It doesn't make a sound.

And the chance for something to, it can like fuck up. We did. We did a cover of under a serpent sun this year. The Fit did for a split with the Abrevlin. So we had to like digest that song. And it was fun. Just would kind of break down the riffs. through a metal zone up just to give it all its glory.

Yeah, yeah. It was cool. But it was like, fuck. There's little nuggets of like masterclass shit hidden in some of those songs. Big time. I mean, who is it in the band that's like a big time pop writer? And at the gates? Yeah.

Well, I didn't know that. That's cool. Somebody isn't there writing for Britney Spears or some shit. What? No. No. I swear to God. Hang on.

I don't know. I can live research. Yeah. Tombow was the guy who Brittany Spears was like super cool to us. Talk to us a lot. Very cool. They're a very cool band.

I respect that band very much. They are cool. We kind of, I have a few guys in where, uh, collectively we're like, we punish people. Like, you know, you're in a band. You get punished by fans and stuff. We like, we want to be punishers every once in a while. And they're the band for us. So if I see that, if I see that,

finger out or something. I'm like, I'm going to go talk to them. I'm going to go fucking bother him. Like, I'm going to do the thing that happens. And so we just, we lay into him. Thomas Lindberg. But they take it. Yeah. Thomas Lindberg. Is a pop songer. Selim. Salem. Britney Spears.

What? What? Nealson. Britney Spears again. Nirvana in the liner notes. Misery Index vocals. Yeah. Magnus Carlson. Wait, this has to be two different Thomas Lindbergs. No, it's him, dude, I swear. Check his wiki. Wow.

That can't be. He's out here grinding on Britney Spears. I need it. I need a, I need a confirmation on this. Send a text. Dumba. Send a live text to Thomas Lindberg. Yo, Tommy.

You know, Brittany? The summer value of he is. I'm pretty sure a Swedish guy is, like, Like the guy in pop- Yeah, yeah, yeah. But isn't that, no, what's that guy's name? Thomas Lindbergh Wiki, I'm going to look him up. Thomas.

I'm looking at his wiki. It doesn't say anything about anything. No, man, I don't think so. It's got to be a different Thomas Lindberg. All right. Celine Dion, dude. 100%. All right.

I want to believe you, but. Me. He must have taken it off himself. He don't want that out there. Yeah, yeah. I'm my bad for exposing me, brother. If this was me making this claim, I'd be roasted. No, there's no roasting. It's him. You'll see.

All right, we'll see. Wikipedia, anybody can edit that thing. That's the whole. Yeah, yeah, Wikipedia said it was real. It's the donors. They want them donations so bad, but they don't know that they took Britney Spears off Thomas Lindberg's page, and therefore I won't be given a cent. Yeah, not getting that $2 now.

Well, in addition to being a prolific producer songwriter, he was a really nice guy. Oh, good. They are very nice. Yeah. Shout out to out the gates. Good. Very good. Let's talk, let's talk of eating.

He's got, he's special. You're vegan. I am vegan, yeah. Now, now, now being vegan on tour is relatively easy. Yeah, it's fucking kind of awesome, actually. I, uh, it's fun. It's, I kind of tore to eat. You know, it's like almost as cool, maybe cooler than the actual show part sometimes.

Oh, yeah. Welcome to our show. Welcome to Hibbler. I like to get to a city. I like to see where the spots are. You know, I'm a big eater. I'm not a party guy, so I take it out of my stomach, you know. And, yeah, I'm a big eater, and it's been a great year of food all over the world.

What are your, what's some big meals this year you've had? Some big, I'm a big Thai guy. So we actually went to Thailand. and that was, I think I had, we were there for two days. I'd say about 48 hours on the ground. I would have had seven to eight noodle dishes while I was there. I mean, we fucking got it in. We did Japan too.

And we ate, there was like a 24-hour dumpling place in Tokyo that we ate out of fucking vegan dumplings. Yeah. That's crazy. We got them. We got them as many as you want. And then we were there for a couple days. and by the end I was like, yeah, 40, the veggie dumplings, and he goes, 20. I go, nope, 40, he goes 20.

I'm like, brother, 40. Trust the second. 20 left. It was just defeated. We won. 20 left. Yeah. Wow.

So that was some good eating. The Asian culinary master class that is Japan is fucking awesome. I bet the three of us would agree that New York, New Jersey have some of the collective best food available in the. the country. Yeah. What are some spots that you love in that, in that area? What are your spots your go-to?

Vegan spots? There's like the, the best vegan restaurant of eating that. This is a place, ABCV in New York. It's pretty bitchy, pretty expensive meal. But head chef's actually a hardcore guy. There you go. Okay, there we go. And he's like, you should come to my restaurant.

Okay, cool. We go. And I'm like, oh, okay. This is the best meal I've ever had. He's like, yeah. I'd love to stay. tonight, but I'm going to Martha's vineyards to cook for Martha Stewart. So, you know, have a good show.

And I was just like, well. So it is her vineyard. Yeah, yeah. So I knew it. But ABCV is, that's the best meal I've had all year. Wow. Shout out to fucking that spot for sure. And then best vegan pizza.

This place, Pauly Dees. If you frequent the Monarch in Brooklyn or St. Vitus, you're probably, you're only like a 10-minute drive away. I know just Justin from Closecase could probably vouch for that place too. But he brought me a slice. We usually get screamers, also a good spot. But he's, he's a food quest guy. So he brought both pizzas. He's the OG. Yeah. And he's like, oh, I got you this and I got you this too. And I'm like, cool. And then I'm eating one. And I'm like, what, what's this? This is something. This is another level. So that's Pauli G's for pizza. And then I like piece food. That's a good spot.

I got all the vegan spots. You just... Yeah. Yeah. Peace foods is just two in New York now. And it's just like, they make their own... They make a steak and a mushrooms. That's pretty fucking wild.

They do some pretty gnarly stuff. Will, are you a coffee guy? I would say I'm a big coffee guy. You suck down a cup every now, man? I've been known to suck. I'm a two a day guy. Two? Yeah.

I like that. Two is... When I'm going to bed after two, I'm like, why am I so tired? Yeah. And then I realized I didn't have my third. I used to be like, let's just have a pot. Fucking going all day.

But now I make them bitchier and I just kind of, I'm just one of those guys now. What are your... Just fancier. I'll do the pour over. I get the good stuff. You know.

When you go out... You let the filth. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Every gimmick you could throw at it. Yeah. I'm made out of it. When you go out for a cup,

where are you going? What are some coffee spots that you like? What's the snobbies? In Jersey, my favorite coffee is this place, Mod Cup. It's in Jersey City. We order beans from them. You might have had those beans at the studio. Probably good.

They're a regular. That's a good cup of coffee. I'm like, I'm big into Onyx. It's a good roastery. Sweet Bloom in Colorado is pretty fucking nice. Onyx? They got coffee now? Yeah, yeah.

Onyx? I think it's hardcore, Jason. They just did a... They did like a Walrus audio collab. There's some shit there. Oh, I was just joking. That's awesome. No, no, there's something going on there.

There's a skull on a fucking logo and stuff. Like, they're halfway there. I'm on my way. Yeah, you know. On the way. You had the McPland yet? I'm not a McDonald's guy. Fair enough.

I just fucking, I just fucking write it off. Fuck. Yeah. I know this is... I know we were doing it. good, you know? We're like, oh, yeah, we got a lot in common, but... We're doing all right.

Because something I do want to talk about is the Gaza benefit stuff that you did. I thought that was amazing. Oh, thank you. Yeah, it was fucking pretty easy to make a little, get a little money raise without too much effort. I love that. Yeah, I pre, thank you to all the people that, um, that actually made the donations and stuff. We, yeah, I don't know what the total was, but I mean, it's fucking thousands of dollars. So it did a lot of mastering for that.

And you're, I mean, you're offering your time. So that's. Yeah. Which is thousands of dollars. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's one of those things where it's like, I always get asked to do stuff cheaper than I normally quote.

So it was like, cool, there's an opportunity for people to get some work done cheap and raise money. That's awesome. It's a win for everybody. For the best cause in the world right now. Yeah. Sometimes it just works out for everybody. And then you get some refugees, some stuff. surprise.

And I can get yell that in my DMs. You fucking, what? You don't like the fuck. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But yeah. It was, it was an easy one. I don't mind doing stuff like that, you know. Beautiful. Well done. I love that. Thank you. Made me feel good.

Happy to fucking. Happy to. You told me about the ghosts. You told me about who you do? You believe in aliens, well? I do. I do. I don't know what the fuck they are.

I don't think they're going to be, I don't think they're us or like some version of people that are going to, I just think it's got to be at the odds are, you know, I'm a man of science. Yeah, sure. Something's out there. They're green or gray or something. There's no. Something fucking weird. They're just like it's, yeah, it's not going to be, we're not going to fucking have a conversation with it. You know, it's just going to be some other thing.

But it's there. That's what it sounds like. We got to get them in a band, you know. What's your favorite, what's your favorite alien movie? Movie? Just like a movie about aliens. Because I'm a sucker for a good. It might be a rival.

Dude, I was going to say arrival. Look at that. In terms of sheer rewatchability. Yeah. I love it. I love the fucking language thing. I love the fucking, they're trying to help us because we're fucking humanity sucks. The message is so beautiful.

It's like, it's like the most human message. It's like if you, if you knew. it was all going to go to shit, would you do it anyway? Right. To enjoy the good times? It's beautiful. I really like Contact. I think Contact's awesome.

Contact is awesome. Contact has, as a studio guy, has one of my favorite, like, studio blunder in a movie. Oh, please, do tell. There's a scene where Jody Foster's, like, talking to the aliens, like, they got the radio shit, and she's got a lexicon reverb, which is, like, a thing you put on drums or vocals. Wow. Just like turn it, turn in the dial to like get here, to hear the aliens coming through. But they just, like, the graphics.

Yeah. Some fucking prop guy needs to get fired. Yeah, it's a classic fucking studio blunder in a movie. But that's just an, that's like only an audio guy would notice that. Yeah, it's just me, you know. Yeah. But isn't it funny, like movies when, when there's a guitar player, like now I lose my mind or like a drummer, I'll lose my mind if it's,

if it's not, if it doesn't look realistic. And now like other things, like just as you get into hobbies, you're like look at something and it kind of takes you out. Yeah, definitely took me out. I was like, the ladies turn reverb up.

Like, what the fuck's going on? Bair. Bair. That's why I didn't, I didn't like that movie Green Room. Mm. I liked overall,

I thought it was fine. But the like, the integration with hardcore music and like, A, playing at the Nazi, bar. Would just not happen.

You're canceled right away. You're done. They played at a Nazi bar. It's so over. You know? And then when they play at the Nazi bar, they cover Nazi punk's fuck off, which like, if you're going to play at the Nazi bar, I get it.

But then they go to the next song and all the Nazis are moshing? Yeah, they're back. Yeah. They're like, I was just keep it going. With one non-anti-Nazi song, you won the whole Nazi crowd. They don't want to mosh that bad. Music is a weapon, dude.

It's a powerful tool. The band, the, like, death metal band that plays before them at the show is kind of sick, though. Yeah. It's like probably some straight up awesome band. It's probably fucking incantation or something. It's like some real death metal band and who are. They told Disman, hey, do you want to play a Nazi band? They're like, yes.

Yesterday, I discovered, I discovered yesterday that Magruder Grind is on Veep, the HBO show. Really? Really? Really? Yeah. Playing at the, I think it's the auto bar too. It looks like the auto bar. That's fucking awesome. Veep's just on.

And it's like some scene where like these fucking two guys go to the one of the like president's AIDS likes to go to these like noise shows. Yeah. And then they go and I'm like, I hear like three seconds of music come through. And I'm like, okay, that was a real band. That wasn't just like, I was like that was a legitimate blast beat with like ride action and shit. I'm like, I gotta find out who that was. They look it up and yet they were like on Veepe playing in a bar.

I was like, look at that. I was just talking about the extended Ace Ventura scenes where he sings for Cannibal Corps last night. Oh, dude. The like TV only version is like unbelievable. I like how pure that is. I like that that was just Jim Carrey being like, I just fucking love Cannibal Corp. So they're going to win this movie. Yeah.

Which is like, I would, where is that now? You know? Yeah, put some bands on. On the very last day of our tour with Cannibal Corpse, Alex Webster was hanging out in our room. I think we had played and he was just kind of warming up. So I hated Toronto must have been playing. And we were just talking and I hit him with a, hey man, sorry.

I know you've been asked this a thousand times. But like, was Jim Carrey cool? And he was like, dude, he was the nicest guy I've ever met. Wow. He was just like really welcoming, took care of us, super nice. And it was a lot of fun. She's like, fuck, yes. That's the best.

I feel like I'd be cool if I was on that level. You kind of won love. Yeah. You're like, I don't know, people who are like that successful and famous that are dickheads. I'll just never understand it. I know because every single decision you can make a decision every day to make someone else more successful. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. You have the power to just constantly make people's lives. So it's like being a dick on that level, you're like, All right. You suck. Extra bad. You're an inherent dick. You're the biggest dick you I've ever seen.

So Jim Carrey, if you're watching, thanks for being cool. Hell of a year, 1994. Good job, Jim. Well, you know, we're winding down now. Will, this was a blast, really. Thanks, man. This was fun. Appreciate you guys.

I'm a fan of the show. I'm a fan of the bands, you know. Oh, thank you. I'm a fan of your love for Eat Down Concrete. No, you know I'm on here every day. Jersey won't be disgrace. I feel like we would be remiss if we didn't talk about Knocked Loose and working with Knocked Loose.

Oh, yeah. Sure. They're dear friends of the show. Dear friends in my own heart. Knock loose. I got put on to them on their demo or like the two-song thing that they had with all my friends, whatever that was.

I forgot what that was at this point. But I remember just hearing it and be like, this band's cool. And then they played was it mixtape fest Was that the Long Island Festival? I remember the name. Yeah.

It was like some short-lived fest. I don't know if it happens anymore, but I remember there was like a day where like E-Tid and Stray and they were playing. And I was like, I'm going to go to the show and see what this band's all about. And then I remember leaving being like, I fucking have to work with this band.

At the time they were like, they were like starting to like get some heat a little bit, but it was like pretty off, under the radar still. But I was like, we got to figure out just so we did it. Just a way to get them here. I remember, like, actually, it's been a, at that point, it had been a while since I, like, went after a band, you know. Oh, cool.

And I remember talking about them being like, yo, I really want to do this record. And I kind of see where this is headed. And I see what the influences are. And, yeah, it's awesome. I just fucking love those guys. They were, like, they're the right band to kind of carry the torch for that. that's not for this kind of side of the world of extreme music because they're real dudes. They put on bands like in the scene.

They're like are. It's like the good guys one. Yeah. Jim Carrey. It's a real Jim Carrey situation. It's a real Jim Carrey situation. Yeah. Because it's like, yeah.

I mean, there's even like 10 minutes into talking about it's like these kids are so nice. They're going to fucking, you know, if they could put the pieces together on this and that, is just going to be a thing. And I think, you know, a lot of their success is just like everybody wants to see them win too because they've done so much solid shit for people. And yeah, they're great. What all did you record with them? We did laugh tracks and, what was that?

That would have been 2017 maybe. Was that? I don't even know, man. It's all a blur now. When was laugh tracks? Let's have a peek. I think, um, yeah. Was it before us?

2016. It would have been before you, I think. Yeah. Wow. It came out in 2016. So maybe 2015, we would have recorded that or something. I did not know that. Yeah.

It just went, you know. Yeah. So it's cool. I've been lucky to be a part of that trajectory with those guys for a while now. That's awesome. Yeah, there are excitement. That works you do with them lives forever. And I would say definitely cemented you as the guy.

for any band trying to do anything like that. Yeah, I got hit up by a lot of knock-loose bands after that, which was kind of back to what I was saying before, where I was like, man, I don't, I want to give it to them, you know? And it is like a blessing and a curse when you make a record that reacts, you know, or a band that pops like that is like the copycats show up pretty quickly, you know. And it's, yeah, I try to try to kind of.

to reserve my energy for the right projects like that, you know, and steer clear some of that. But, you know, I'm happy that they got young kids into a style of music that was, you know, they kind of brought back what I enjoyed about going to shows and stuff as a kid and seeing the scale of it now. It's like, fuck, they might be like the biggest hardcore band ever. Yeah, they're definitely on their way there. And you're right. They're excitement and, like, enthusiasm towards everything that they're doing. is the coolest part.

And their knowledge, they listen to, they check out fucking everything. Every band. Yeah, that was what really grabbed me. I was like, man, we're talking about like fucking prayer for cleansing. I don't remember what it was, but I was like, how do you know this? Like, you weren't even alive. Like, how are you, you know, they would blow my own mind a lot with like the encyclopedia of knowledge they had, too, on where shit came from.

Right. And I think that translates, I think that's why their music is believable and real and stuff. like actually rooted in the right lineage of stuff. It's not just like, intention and ethos. Yeah, you know how it is. It's all it is. That's all it matters.

Yeah. Straight up, dude. Now, if you, tomorrow, a band hits you up, a band you never worked with to be like, Will, we want you to do this. What would you be most excited to make?

What kind of record would you be most excited to make as a producer, engineer? Like, do you, are you dying to do some, and indie pop music as a, for a change? Or do you like staying in the Has Breakdowns realm? No, I mean, I wouldn't say I'm dying, but I just like bands that are good, man. It's easy.

It doesn't have to be a specific genre or anything, you know. I've done some stuff, you know, I did some stuff with like Four Year's Strong this year, which is like, what, like a pop punk band, if you would call it that. Yeah. There's like really poppy songs that we've worked on that are awesome. I had a blast. As fun as the heaviest record I made all year, you know. And then I did some music with that band Northland.

It's like a completely electronic song more, you know. And it's like, so I don't care. You know, if the band's good, I'm interested in stuff that's just exciting. Because there's anything that has its own sort of lane that I could relate to. Yeah. Whatever it is. If I can find a connection to it and the band's good, I'm stoked on it. That's a perfect dancer. That's what you want to hear.

Yeah, I don't really have like, you know, there's not one path for me, I don't think, for producing records in the near future. Beautiful. Yep. Beautiful sentiment. Yeah, thanks. Well, Will, thank you so much for being here. Appreciate it, guys. This was a blast.

Happy to see this. Happy to see the hard Lord grow, man. Thanks. There's been countless bands at the studio who have you guys on in the background while we're tracking. Aw. You get some play. Now they get to watch this one. Imagine that.

Yeah, now when they come like, you go and watch my episode, and you're going to fucking listen. That's right. They're going to hear that last bit and be like, okay, guys, we've got to be good because that's what he likes. Yeah, it's not really that hard. It doesn't sound that hard, right? Just rock.

Just don't suck. Yeah. Just rock. Just rock. Yeah. It's hard for some people. I love it. Not you guys.

You guys are good. Well, you know, there were bumps in the road to rocking. Yeah. Eventually, the plan is eventually rock. So, Will will help you eventually rock. Yeah, I do think everybody sucks for a long time. Yeah. So that has a thing, too.

I don't know how long, I mean, I think I'm fine now, but I definitely sucked for a while. I wouldn't, yeah, yeah. The choir. Keep preaching. Yeah. So if you suck, it's okay. Because everybody's sucking is temporary. Rocking is forever once you figure out.

But, you know, Metallica. If you're listening, you don't have to do the song twice, do a nice bridge, change it up. Call it. Call me, I got a nice bridge idea for you. He's got good bridges. Thank you so much, Will. Thank you all for listening. We will see you next week.

Bye. Thank you, guys.