HealthyGamerGG - Becoming a Psychiatrist, Nihachu? How We're Shaped Mentally | Dr. K Interviews

Episode Date: May 10, 2021

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Welcome. Hello. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too. And so people call me Alloker Dr. Kay. Can you tell me how you would like to be addressed today? I'm Nikki. Nikki, okay.

Yeah. And welcome, Nikki. Thank you so much for gracing us with your presence. Thank you so much for inviting me. As much as I haven't watched too many streams, I am a fan. I am really, really. actually thankful for what you were doing here. So yeah.

Well, yeah, so thank you very much for coming on. And, you know, I appreciate the gratitude. Is there something in particular that you want to talk about today or something that we can help you with, Nikki? I'm not 100% sure. Perfect. Although I did start therapy today. Really?

And we talked a bit about my anxiety. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah. Started therapy today and came on stream, both in one day? I know, I know. It's mental health awareness a month, you know. Yeah, wow. Good for you. Yeah. And have you been in therapy before? I have. I've been through therapy all my adolescence life.

So like ever since I was a young teenager, I went through therapy. Okay. Yeah. Do you mind if I ask you some questions about? about that? No, for sure. Okay. You know, just a reminder that if I ask you anything that you don't feel comfortable answering, you're welcome to not answer it. But I think a lot of people are curious about, you know, how to get into therapy, what it does for you, things like that. Can you tell us a little bit about what your experience with therapy has been like? For sure. So I've been

into, I was in Cyport's. That was the first experience I had when I was with therapy, when I was very young. I got admitted into a psych ward. And that's how I started my first therapy. That's where I got diagnosed the first time and how I started to work with antidepressants and different kinds of therapy. And I actually went through DBT twice, which really helped me. Yeah. Hmm. Can you explain to us what DBT is? Oh, God, what is it? I'm not quite sure what it is in English, because I did it in German, but it's basically, like, I think it's behavioral therapy. It's to, um, so it's like impulse control, I would say. Yeah, I think your experience of it is perfect. I don't know that people need like a technical definition, but. Can you just kind of tell us about what it's been like for you?

So the first time I went through it, I thought it was, I didn't, I didn't quite, you know, I wasn't ready for it yet. But it's basically they taught me how to, I did self-harm when I was younger. It's not a secret, you can see it. I don't do it anymore. But they taught me how to get that into, like how to control that, how to kind of, how to kind of, of like kind of learn different things that I can do instead of harming my body harming myself. And we did a lot of, I'm not quite sure what it is in English, but we did quite a lot of like meditation and like being aware of your surroundings and of yourself, which I think really helps

and is really good. What is it in German? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is there a way to literally translate that? Like awareness, like awareness practice, I would say. Beautiful.

That's a, that's a beautiful way to describe what it is. Mm-hmm. And feel free to just use the German word if you can't come up with English. Okay, okay. Yeah. You know. So it's funny because a lot of people, so early on when I was training to become a psychiatrist, I had a patient whose English was not their first language.

And everyone just sort of assumed that that would mean that the therapy wouldn't go well. But I actually found that that was actually like one of my best sort of therapy experiences because since we didn't speak the same language, like we didn't assume anything. So we were like defining terms that like normally, you know, I would say, oh, like how was your childhood and someone would say good? and then we just move past it even though it may not have been good or I interpreted things one way. And so I actually think working with people who don't speak your language or like you guys just have a little bit of a, you know, language gap can actually be really, really good because you don't fall into assumptions. Yeah, no, I think that's a really good way to see it. So, yeah, because I also love the way that you translated. Aksum kite.

Yeah. Aksumkite. Cite. Achtzomkite, yeah. Good job. Good job, all over. Thank you. Yay for me.

And so how does, what did they teach you that helped you control your impulses? Um, I think, I think for me it was mostly, I need, it wasn't, it wasn't mostly about my impulses. It was mostly about needing like something that I can rely on. Because growing up I didn't have that much. I have it that match. And therapy actually helped me in a way where it's like, hey, if you ever need something and you don't know where to go, you have the therapy that you can go to. If you don't know who to talk to, you have your therapist you can talk to.

In the psych word, I had people to take care of me. I think That was a big thing. I'm very bad with, like, looking for help because I always, I'm like, I'm so self-aware. I know what I'm doing. I can do this by myself. So even, like, going to therapy now, it's like, it's a very big step. But I think I need it where, like, I need something to rely on. I need something to fall back on.

And that's, I think that's what therapy was for me and what helped me. Yeah. So sort of like a home base or kind of retreat or, yeah. Can you tell me a little bit about what growing up was like for you? I moved a lot ever since I was young. I moved every half a year. I also grew up without a father. My mom, there is addiction running in my family,

and my mom sadly suffered from it for the most part, which I back then didn't understand. And it was sort of like I got thrown. own into new situations and then pulled out of it without me having a saying in it and then and then um not knowing where to go or what to do um and then once i moved out at 17 i had to grow up really early because i had to take care of my mom um so i wow yeah i kind of just i kind of just uh started to be more independent and that really helped me streaming really helped me i was a very insecure kid. I was very shy and very, very quiet growing up. So, yeah, streaming helped me a lot.

Moving out by myself helped me a lot because I had that distance from my, from my child, like childhood from my family, and that helped me understand everything that I didn't understand when I was younger. And what are some of the things that you gained understanding about? What did you come to understand that was confusing as a kid? I, for example, saw the sight of my mom. My mom always struggled with her current boyfriends, with her ex-boyfriends, with money. We didn't have much money growing up. And I sort of started to understand that as much as addiction is and can be seen as an illness, it's not her fault.

She did not mean to treat me the way that she wanted to. too. She maybe just didn't know any better. And I actually really love my mom now. And we're really, like, tight and good with each other. So, yeah. Yeah. And why did you move every six months? Mostly, so there's one thing that I can't talk about on the internet, which I can't tell. But mostly it was because of my mom and her boyfriends. She always moved to her boyfriends because she didn't have money. But my mom is a very pretty woman. And so she got to date men that are rich. I don't know.

Yeah. So we always moved to them really quickly. And it really quickly didn't work out. So we had to move away. Okay. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that there's something that we want to steer clear of. I'm still not quite sure what to avoid.

So I may need your guidance. I'm not trying to ignore. I just don't know. what it is that we can't talk about quite yet. So apologies, if I stumble towards it, okay? Just let me know. Yeah, of course, of course. And so you mentioned that you didn't grow up kind of knowing your father.

Is that something that's still the case? Or it sounds like you've really repaired your relationship with your mom. You all have become really close. You all love each other, support each other a lot. Do you mind if I just ask quickly, like that? Oh, yeah. I had a father figure when I was really. very young. But very

quickly, that turned, that's what I can talk about. Totally fine. Yeah. And then I found out that he's not my father when I was nine years old. And my real father actually, he knows me, like he knows, my mom

showed him my Twitch, he knows Niachu, but I have never known him and he always said that I'm not his daughter until we did a father, like a test that he's my father. but yeah he he's not in my life i don't i don't really mind it either though yeah i i can i can see how you know it's sort of like you know you never sort of he was

never in your life to begin with so it's not like you lost anything yeah exactly at the same time i can imagine that you know it can it may be hurtful for him to say things like you're not it was at first definitely i definitely at first was very hurtful but I got over it very quickly. Yeah. Do you mind if I ask how you did that? Because that does seem remarkable. I feel like, I don't want to blame it on that,

but I feel like because I've moved so many times, because I've dealt with getting over people, losing people, getting thrown away, like thrown out of the situation. I feel like because of that, I've gotten really, really good at just getting over people in general. Like, as much as I am. hurt for the first few days or for the first for the first time um i i quickly move on from that i just

yeah um niki you seem just incredibly resilient thank you um and i almost feel a little bit sad saying that because i i think it's been rough that you've had to be so resilient you know i sometimes wish that people had lives where they didn't have to be quite as resilient and bounce back quite as much as you've had to. It sounds kind of rough. It makes me the person I am today. I actually want to become a psychiatrist. So I feel like because of all the things that I have been through,

I don't want to say like, oh, I've been through so much, but all of the things that I have been through because of that. I think you can't say that. I think that's fair. Yeah, I learned how. to um I have a lot of empathy and I I know how a lot of people feel and also I am pretty resilient so if someone tells me that I take it in but it's not like weighing on me so much can you help me understand um you wanting to become a psychiatrist why on earth

um save yourself Nikki before it's too late I just want to help people um at first I wanted to become a psychiatrist in a children's and adolescence psych ward because that's what I've been through and I think that helped me a lot. But the more I am here as a streamer and content creator, I feel like a lot of content creators could really use some professional help. So I would really like to do something in this area as a professional, mental health professional. And, okay, can I just think for a second? Yeah, for sure. I'm trying to understand the boundaries of this conversation and trying to restrain. I'm mostly very open.

I am fine with talking about mental health about my issues. I talk about it a lot on my own stream. If there's anything that I don't want to talk about, I will tell you, and I won't feel offended or anything. So don't worry at all. Yeah, that I figured out. The boundaries that I need a moment to think about are my own. Oh, okay. Oh, okay.

Sorry. So there's there's all part, you know, I'm having all these thoughts about supporting you in your goal, like in terms of, you know, how can we, you know, what, because I'd love to support you, but I think that that's not really the relationship that we have. In terms of, you know, if you want to talk to people or want research opportunities or whatever, which we just talked about a little bit, you know, I know a lot of people in a lot of places. and I think you'd be a wonderful fit just having talked to you for five or ten minutes in a lot of the clinical settings I've seen and so there's a part of me that very strongly wants to support you in a very much more like practical way

like I want to introduce you to you know are like the person who runs the adolescent I'm going to steer clear of a particular diagnosis but there's a particular residential unit where people will come and stay for 30 or 60 days. Most of them are women. They teach a lot of DBT there. And I think that that could be like a really wonderful place for you to work clinically if you ever became a psychiatrist. So I'm personally just restraining all of that energy to try to support you and your goal. And just thinking about what's appropriate and what

isn't to say. I see, I see. And so like, so help me understand a little bit. So, I mean, I hear this a lot from streamers, too, because, you know, we work with a lot of streamers here at HG. And so you're a streamer. You're a good streamer. I was a successful streamer. And how do you think about, you know, potentially becoming like a licensed mental health professional versus like your streaming career? So I never intended to become a big streamer. I don't think many people do

I don't think many people start and I're like oh I'm going to be this big streamer so it has always been my goal and my dream to become a psychiatrist and I will not just throw that away just because I have a different career path now I feel like as much as streaming is a wonderful job

and I would love to do it forever it is not a secure job that you know you can do forever so I think I will just do streaming for as long as I can for as long as I have fun, for as long as it's, you know, I can pay my rent with it and I can pay my uni and everything with it. But I feel like at some point everyone just falls off. So, or most people. So, and like, I will, I will still work towards my plan A, which is psychiatrist,

even though, but I will not, I don't know, I really know how to say it, but like, I will, not give up streaming, but I will still work towards becoming a psychiatrist because you never know. I could go live today and have zero viewers. Yeah. So, yeah. Um, you know, I know this sounds weird, but you may be able to become a psychiatrist and a streamer. It's true. It is actually possible, which I didn't, I didn't realize, you know, I don't, I don't know how true that was maybe a year or two ago, but it appears to be true now. Yeah, yeah, you're right. So, and so it sounds like you're in uni, you're doing, uh, I took this year off because of COVID. I just couldn't handle it mentally. But, uh, after like once everything comes down, I will definitely go, go back to uni. Yeah, I wasn't

year once. So I just start again. And do you, Nikki, do you mind if I ask, just estimate of how old you are? I'm 19. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. How long have you been streaming? Two years. Oh, wow. Mm-hmm.

It's been my job for one year now. You seem older. I hear that a lot, yeah. How do you interpret that when people say things like that? I agree, because I had to grow up very, very quickly. So, and I have very, I have a lot of friends that are in their early, mid to late 20s. So I don't have many friends that are in like 18, 19, 18, 19, 17, 18, 19. So I think, yeah, I think that makes sense.

Yeah. It's sad that you had to grow up early. Yeah, but it made me the person I am today. And I'm actually, as much as I still struggle with myself, I'm pretty happy with who I am. And who are you? I'm Nikki. I am here to help people and make people laugh and smile. And as long as I can do that, I'm happy.

I did a lot of volunteering growing up. And that's definitely also what I want to do continuing on. I couldn't do it during COVID, but yeah. Yeah, this may sound like a weird question. Why is it important to you to make people happy? I think because I know what it feels like to be at your lowest. And I don't wish that upon anyone. Not even my enemies.

I don't have enemies, but the people that I don't like. I just don't want, I just, yeah. You know, I'm really curious who has enemies nowadays. I don't know, yeah, I know, right? It's like, I mean, I'm sure they're out there, but I'm sure some people do, and I, you know. Right. I, yeah, I have people I don't like and people you don't like me, but we're not enemies. I'm not making anything to make their life miserable or anything.

And you said that you enjoy making people happy because you know what it's like to be unhappy. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? I don't know. I just had a lot of bad experiences in my life, I would say. Like, I'm not, I always, whenever I do this, I'm like, oh, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just trying to talk about myself and I come off as, oh, I'm just talking about myself here and making myself seem. I don't know. I don't like talking about myself in that way much.

I don't like telling people that I've had bad experiences of my life. But I definitely did. And I definitely had, I don't know, just very low points. Yeah. It's hard to me to talk about that. Yeah. Why is it hard for you to talk about that? I don't know.

Maybe because I am at a position right now where my life's good. I don't have to, you know, as much as I still have a lot of struggles, and especially with myself, I am financially stable and I am doing a job that I love and I have many friends and I'm out of that. that I feel like I am not allowed to talk about the bad times in my life because it's, you know, it's not like that anymore. So why should I talk about it? Um, so I think, I think that's what makes me struggle. Can I think for a second? Mm-hmm. For sure. So Nikki, I think, you know, it's, it's, I really enjoy talking to you. I think we're having a very lovely conversation. Um, I think it could help a lot of people to hear your story. And at the same time, I'm not, I'm not. I'm not. I'm, not hearing anything that we're talking about that will actually be helpful to you. Yeah. And something very sneaky is happening, which is that you're coming on here and you're helping other people. You're sharing your experiences for the sake of educating other people.

But we're really steering away from anything that could be helpful to you. Does that make sense? Yes. That makes sense. Okay. So you're a sneaky one. So let's think a little bit about that for a second. Okay.

We can respect that boundary, right? If you don't want to talk about things that could help you. And I think, by the way, there's a theme running here, which is that you don't like reaching up for help. You don't like showing people and now everything's better. There's that. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

So, but we can actually choose to respect that, right? Like, we can just acknowledge that that thing is there, that you don't want, you don't want us to throw you a pity. party, right? Yeah. You don't want us to like think like, oh, like, Nikki's head like such a hard child. Exactly. Like you're happy sharing your, your, your story of triumph. Like, yeah, it was really hard, but you can do it too. Like you're happy saying that. You're happy being an inspiration if it helps other people. But yeah, you don't want us to be worried about you. Exactly. 100%. Yeah. Right. Which is fine. If we decide that. So I'm, I see you. you're getting emotional. I've maybe caught you a little bit. Sorry.

But you are so, you are so incredibly self-aware, Nikki. You understand yourself so well. You've grown so much. So I'm just, I'm putting it out there. Normally I'd like skirt around it. I won't, you know, I wouldn't like pin you. Like, I feel like I've trapped you somehow. That's all right. So how, what do you think about that? Like, um, no, I, I do agree. Um, I do agree with that, especially the, oh, I don't, we don't want to throw you a pity pot. because I do get babyed on the internet a lot, where it's like, oh, poor Nikki, and oh, she's doing this, but poor her.

Well, I'm sitting here and I'm like, yeah, but it's all right. Like, you know, I'm fine. So I feel like, if I would talk about how right now I struggle with a lot of anxiety, which is true, I feel like people would then again be like, oh, poor her. I hope she's okay, which is fair enough, but I don't want that. Like, I want to be here for my chat and I want to make my chat laugh. They don't have to be there for me because I am just their source of entertainment.

Can I think for a second? Yes. I'm going to need a long second, maybe like a minute. That's okay. I'm so sorry. No, no, no. It's not, I think. So I need to think more.

when people are more insightful. Because usually, like, if people are slow with how they progress, it gives me plenty of time. I mean, not like people are slow, but like, the more insightful you are, the more I have to, like, take a step back and, you know, just hold on. Okay. Okay.

Soutle. There's a lot going on here. That's okay. I'm here. Okay. So the first thing is that I think I want to kind of toss something out to you. maybe you can help me think through it. So one is that people baby you, right?

I think that can be insulting and demeaning. But I would suspect that when you get babyed, there's a subtle difference between people babying you and caring about you. And I think that you probably dislike both. Yeah, probably. And one of those is fair, right? Because we don't want to baby you. We don't want to like,

say like, oh, like, oh, Nikki does it. Like, poor thing. She's so hurt. She's so incapable of. No, because you're very capable. Yeah, exactly. You're financially independent at the age of 19 in university, have career aspirations. You spawned in a really, really bad location when you were born on this earth. And with a lot of challenges. And despite the fact that you had like a crappy spawn, you have managed to accomplish at the age of 19 just a ridiculous amount.

and we're just getting started. So I think that babying you is not fair. Yeah, I agree. At the same time, I think that you don't, it makes you uncomfortable when people choose to care about you. I agree.

What's up with that? Maybe, maybe I'm just not used to. I don't want to, again, oh, I just not used to people care. about me. There's that voice. You see that voice? Yeah, I know.

I know. I know. I know. I see. Yep. It's constantly there. But yeah, I have an example, for example. For example, for example.

I'm in this group, in this friend group. And they are streamers. They're all streamers, all content creators. And they talk over me a lot. And it's a thing. It's a thing. And I've recently. got into this into like i talked to like two of the people or three other people and then they they

suddenly let me talk and as much as i was always like oh i wish i could talk i wish i could say my mind oh you know um once i actually could i didn't know what to say because i was so used to being talked over and not finishing my sentences not being heard that once i actually got heard once people actually listened to me, I did not know what to say. And I think that is the same thing with people caring about me, where it's like, as much as I always wanted it, and as much as I always wanted to feel safe and feel secure and how people care about me, now that I have people care about me, I just don't know what to do with it. Yeah, beautifully said. And what I'm hearing from you is that it's sad, but you sort of didn't learn.

how to be cared for. Mm-hmm. And so I think what I'm hearing from you is that you've really like adapted to surviving on your own. You know, because like you don't need other people to take care of you because that voice in your head doesn't. Yeah.

It's always watching out for you, isn't it? Yeah, it really is. Yeah. Interesting, huh? Mm-hmm. Can you tell us about that voice? voice in your head? Oh, that voice, it does not like me. It does not want me to succeed.

I think it helps me to be more self-aware, but at the same time, it just makes me sound hypocritical a lot of the times. Yeah, so what kinds of things does it say to you? I think it started, I had an eating disorder throughout my entire life. my mom's a model, so she kind of put that down on me. And that voice started when I was very young. And at first it was just the thing, it repeated the things that people in school told me that my mom showed me. It repeated my own insecurities.

And the older I got, the more it just repeated. It kind of just made me feel like I don't deserve good things happening to me. you know yep so let me ask you a weird question does the voice help your success or hinder your success

that's the question I don't know and certain things I would say definitely it hinders it on the surface I would say it hinders it but on the other hand I think I need to

I need that voice to tell myself I can overcome it I think I just constantly need that challenge of something else working against me and working against what I want. So I, yeah. If that makes sense. Makes a lot of sense. And now I'm going to, because this is the thing, Nikki, you make too much sense. Right?

So I asked you the hard question, which usually it takes us an hour and a half to get to, oh, actually, the voice isn't all bad. But you get there right away. So I need to... It's a therapy. A little bit. I know the normal one. So like, you know, I feel like I'm like in an anime where like we've caught up with the manga and now I need to make filler. Right.

I just need to pause for a second because this is going to be a filler. I'm sorry. No, no, no. It's on the contrary. So, um, man. You understand so much. Thank you. Okay.

How would you feel if chat cared about you? I would feel... At one hand, I would feel, like, at one hand, I would feel, like, thankful. And I would be like, that's very sweet. That's very nice. And on the other hand, I would feel like, that's not your place to be. And then on the other hand, I would probably feel like, please don't. Okay.

So we're going to pay attention to on one hand and on the other hand, okay? Anytime you say that or anytime you think that. So for example, the voice in your head, does it help your success or hinder your success? On the one hand, it's toxic and on the other hand, it's a challenge that drives me forward. Yeah. Right? Yeah. So, and when we go back to chat and when we ask like, you know, do they, how would you feel about them caring about you?

Like there's a part of you that can feel gratitude. There's a part of you that says, no, no, no, it works the other way around. Mm-hmm. And then what's that third part of you? Um, like, it's not their place to be. Like, they have their own things to care about, I guess, maybe. Yeah. So whose place is it to care about you?

My friends and my family. that's a good answer is that actually how you feel I think I mean I guess chat that's a very hard question I do feel thankful that chat cares about me I do

I love my audience my audience is the sweetest audience yeah yeah but maybe maybe they should care about me in a different way than my friends and family should care about me because we we didn't establish the word care what is the word care what does the word care say and intel i think it's like chat should care

about me in a way of oh is nicky happy doing the work that she does is nicky happy providing us with the content that she that she does is she safe and happy no no safe and healthy like those things but they can't actually change much about it as like i said i'm very happy with my audience, and that is because they act the way that they do. And I think if they care about me in a way of I want to make this community save, because I care about my streamer, then I'm very happy, and I think that's what they should do. But they should not care about me on a personal level where they will reach out to me on my business email and ask me if I am okay and if I want to talk to them, because that is not

their place to be. Yeah, so that sounds like very good boundaries. So now I'm going to ask you, do you sometimes find yourself, well said. Now I'm going to have to pause. This is going to be the stream that we call the Battle of Pauses. And I think you're winning right now. The score is like 8 to 1. Oh, no.

Okay. So how do you feel about yourself when you're making your chat happy? I feel good about myself. I if when I have a good stream where I see that my chat is having fun I call that a successful stream and a good stream mm-hmm okay seems like give me a second that's totally fine I'm so sorry I feel so bad why because you keep having to pause so what's why do you feel bad about that I'm not sure I don't know. What would make you feel good?

That's a hard question. Um, I don't know. I'm happy to be here. I feel good to be here. I'm very thankful that I got invited to this. I am too. I'm, I'm doing well right now. Are you concerned that I'm not doing well?

Yeah. Yeah. And so when you get concerned that I'm not doing well, how does that make you feel? not well yeah right because you're not maybe you're not making me happy and when you don't make me happy how do you how do you feel

unhappy like like I didn't succeed yeah what does it feel like to not succeed like that voice that told me I won't will be louder yeah so and remind me of that so the voice is telling you

oh, you shouldn't be this difficult. You should be simpler. Exactly. And you should let Dr. Kay work you to a revelation. And that everyone can watch the revelation. And then you can have, you can cry and you can have learned something new about yourself. And then it's going to be exactly what it's supposed to be. Everyone will be happy.

Exactly. But the voice is telling you, no, no, no, don't, don't disrupt the boat. Right? So, so I think I'm going to stop asking you. some questions and I'm just going to tell you. Okay. So like, but so Nikki, that's a problem. Right?

Because you've got to be really, really careful about. Oh, I don't even know how to say this. Do you see how that's a problem? I do see how that's problem. Help us out. I have learned, especially in the last year and a half that that is a problem because I have met certain people that told me one thing and I would believe that thing and I would adapt to that thing and then they would act a different way and I would try to act that way and adapt to that way.

But in the end, I could not because I couldn't steer the boat in the correct direction because I didn't get any directions and because I constantly need to, from my end, I need to succeed. I need to be, I don't know, I don't know how to explain it, but I feel like, I feel like I see myself as something that everyone can fall back on. I will adapt myself to everyone and everything around me, whether or not it's beneficial or good for me. And because I get these different directions and no directions at all, I feel very, very lost a lot of the times. Yeah. So now we're going to come back to another question, or a question that we've asked before. So who are you? Wow. I am, I'm still Nikki. You're damn right, you are.

I still am a person with ambitions and goals in life and who is independent by themselves. I just maybe sometimes try to adapt myself too much to other people. Well said. So now we get into a tricky situation because as you give the right answers, and as I say things like well said, that may calm down the voice. Do you see that? Yeah.

Yeah, because now you're being vulnerable enough. Like, oh, that's a hard question. Like, oh, Dr. Kay, Mickey's scared. Yeah. And like, so the more that you like struggle, like, the more of the voice is like, good job, Nikki. You're being what they want you to be. Mm-hmm. Right. And so this is tricky.

Because like, like you said, you know, you adapt yourself a little bit too much. You're very good. You're a chameleon. You can be what people need you to be. Mm-hmm. And this is the tricky thing is that like, you know, when you're like, you're like, I think that there's a lot of genuineness, but there's like a lot of dialectic, actually. So the D and DBT stands for dialectical.

And what dialectical means, I think you understand it very well. I mean, it's clear. So the dialectic is like the two sides of the argument. So on the one hand, I'm Nikki. And on the other hand, I actually am a little bit confused about who I am at times. and or maybe another way to put it, I think, because you have started to learn who you are, is I give up who I am for what people want me to be.

Mm-hmm. And so, like, I think that that's challenging. Any thoughts? I agree. Yeah. I think that sounds very accurate. Yeah, so, so this is going to sound kind of weird, but you know the voice in your head? when other people tell you the same thing that the voice in your head tells you,

how do you respond to that? Yeah, you're right. I have learned, oh, sorry, I have learned growing up and going through therapy. I've learned how to take compliments. We had a whole therapy session, group session about how to take compliments. So whenever someone gives me a compliment, I say, thank you. Yeah, that's really nice of you. but it is only when someone says something negative about me that I actually take it in

and I I process it and it actually reaches me I think that's why it's very hard to be a streamer because I do see a lot of negative things yeah so so I and I think this is where maybe you know maybe we can try to like I'd like to help you swim in the water of like why you do that Right. So like you've got this negative voice in you. Part of it, you know, feels like it's like hurts you because it does hurt you. And at the same time, it also like helps you succeed. Right. And so then there are times where, you know, I think that like you have to be careful. I mean, we haven't talked about your romantic relationships. But I think sometimes people for whom negativity resonates with them can open. themselves up to abusive relationships or abusive dynamics. And we can kind of hear this a little bit because you had that group of friends that always

talked over you. And you're like resenting it on the one hand, but it feels right on the other. And then you've got like these two or three people who actually give you the space to speak. And that's what you've always wanted and you're really uncomfortable. And this is the dialectic. It's like, I want to speak. But boy, does it feel good when I get talked over? because then your voice is like you see you don't have anything good to say anyway exactly you don't know how to talk anyways

yeah so it's kind of tricky and so then the question becomes like what what makes you like and then when people compliment you I think this is tricky so I know you had a therapy session where you learned how to act how to accept a compliment

you practice acting but you don't actually you don't actually accept it what gets in the way? Probably that voice, not wanting me to succeed, not wanting me to feel good about myself and feel good about things that people compliment me on. Yeah, and what's your understanding of why your voice doesn't want you to feel good?

What is it doing there? Why is it doing that? It's trying to keep me in the place where I have been for the majority of my life, because that's comforting because that is the safety net that I that I have. I fall in like when we talk about romantic relationships I fall in love with people who make me feel safe

and that might be me trying to get out of that place that the voice is keeping me in that safety net but that also like you said opens me up to a lot of abusive relationships because that is then the safety net that I try to fall back gone and a lot of the times it doesn't work out.

So I think that is what the voice is doing. It's trying to keep me in that place where I've been my entire life, where it is easy to stay because I don't have to work to get out of it. Well said. So here's what I kind of heard. So I think, I know it sounds weird, but I think the voice is protecting you. Right. And this is actually like devastating, but it happens to be true that

you have survived abuse and neglect. Mm-hmm. And there's a very interesting adaptation to like surviving abuse and neglect, which is like this idea that you don't deserve any better. Because then at least it makes sense, right? If I'm like fundamentally, oh, you want to finish? Yeah, like human beings try to make sense of everything.

Everything, we need to make sense of it. So I totally agree. I've heard that a lot of times. I've learned that while I did psychology myself, I know that that is the thing. I need to make sense of it. Why did I get abused? Why did I get neglected? What made me, like what made people want to do that to me? And the thing that that voice tells me, it's because you deserve it.

Because whatever you did, you deserve it. And I say, okay, right, that makes sense. I deserve it. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm going to point something out. I think we're going to skirt close to the area that we're not going to talk about. So you don't have to talk about it, but I'm just going to illustrate something.

Right. So if we go back to like early on and if you can share something, I think it could be illustrative. But it's enough for you to just think it. You don't actually have to answer my question. I forgot what I was going to say with that. Oh, no. Okay. So, so when you're growing up and you're moving around a lot and things are bad, right?

your mind comes up with like some kind of way to help you survive that. Right? And so you come up with like this adaptation. And then the interesting thing is that like that adaptation makes sense. Like it's sort of like your mind comes up with this idea. And there's interesting stuff about cognitive development stuff that we can talk about. But essentially your mind like comes up with a formula for the way that the world works. You have to make sense of the way the world works.

And to grow up the way that you did, the only logical conclusion. and that a smart, insightful person like yourself can come to, is that you don't deserve to be treated well. Because clearly, you know, you had lots of data to suggest that you don't deserve to be treated well. And then something really important happens, which is that voice in your head says that, you know what, as long as you don't deserve to be treated well

and we're all on the same page, as long as we know the final boss that we're dealing with, we can win, we can survive. You're completely okay. If you don't rely on anyone else, if no one cares about you, I can take care of you. I will protect you. I will make you succeed. I will help you become a psychiatrist that transforms and enriches the lives of many, many people.

And it's going to be a shell that you show the rest of the world. And I'm going to be with you on the inside. We're not going to let anyone else in. And so it can become terrifying because it's a safety net. I think you used a beautiful phrase there. and now things get really, really dangerous because if people start to care about you and you let them in,

what does that say about you? That I'm vulnerable? Sure. That I think that is also like a big thing. I have tried to let people in and then that trust that I've given the people got abused. So then the voice gets louder and tells me to see, see, that's why you shouldn't trust people.

That's why we are in here, you and me, but everyone else is out there. Yeah, so now I'm going to say something. This may not make a whole lot of sense. I think the thing you've got to be really careful about Nikki is I think that voice knows how to pick the right people to let them in and convince you that I was right all along. I agree. 100%. My mom has the same issue. Yeah. My mom and I actually talked about that a lot. I agree. Can you help us understand that a little bit? Because I know we know what we're talking about. I'm not sure that everyone can follow.

So I think it is people in your life, as a person that has met many people in their lives growing up and moving a lot, have certain patterns of how to get to know you, how to talk to you. you, what their hobbies are, the way they approach other people. And I think I don't do it consciously, but subconsciously, I see those patterns and I take the toxic patterns and I blend them out. They're not there for me. But subconsciously, I know that these are toxic patterns and these patterns will hurt me. But I will still, because I don't see them consciously, I will let these people in. And then once I get hurt by them, on one hand, I'm surprised and I tell myself, why did I deserve that? And on the other hand, I tell myself, yeah, but these, you knew that. You knew that. That was, that was what you wanted. That was what you, what you needed, I guess.

Yeah, it's, it's tricky, right? Because I, I think there's a part of, because like, Nikki, you are very, you will be a very good psychiatrist if you become. Thank you. So I think you're, you're really good at reading people. And I think you're really good at like knowing what they are and what they're going to give you. And I think there's a part of you that now we're really getting into hypothetical territory, but I'd say that there's a part of you that sees all of the stuff on the surface that you want from those people and also detects like everything underneath the surface. And it also reassures you because it says, hey, look at all this beautiful stuff on the surface. This person is going to be the right person for you. And then underneath, they know that that person is going to

make you feel about yourself the way that you sometimes do when you listen to that voice. Yeah, definitely. It's hard. So now we get to, yeah, so let me just, let me think for a second. Do you, do you have a sense of how to change this? I mean, like I said, trying to let people in. And as much as I will, I know I will get hurt in the future, trying to let people in, trying to let people understand me and my vulnerabilities. Yeah. I'm not sure. Yeah.

So, so I think that's a good, that's a good strategy. I think it could be bumpy. Mm-hmm. So what I- As everything is, as every recovery process is. Well said. also very resilient of you. But, you know, Nikki, I'd actually prefer if it's okay with you to try to like lead you down a path now that's a little bit different.

Yeah, for sure. And the thing is trying stuff, I don't think is actually your strong suit. I think you're very insightful. And so what I'd love to do is actually try to leverage your ability to understand your capacity for awareness. And actually it has nothing to do with anything outside of you. It has everything to do with what goes on inside you. So the first thing is that recognize that the voice in your head is your survivor, right? Like you are a survivor.

And I think the really terrifying thing is that like you've concluded that you're not like a good person on the inside. Now I know that there are parts of you that has come to realize that that's not true and stuff like that. So totally fine. But this goes back to like if someone compliments you, you're like, you know, it bounces right off or you learn how to pretend to take it in. And then if someone's like really nasty to you, they're like, you know, it kind of sinks in and you're like, yes, that's correct. So that's what we're talking about, okay? And the only way that the world can make sense if you grow up with the history that you have, which once again, we don't need to go into.

Is it okay that I just reference it like that? Yeah, yeah, for sure. So like, you know, and if you feel like I think it could be illustrated, but you don't have to, if you can feel your, if you can share your experience of like a particular memory, you don't have to tell us what happened, but just how you learn to believe that about yourself. You know, something like that. Not quite yet, but let me just keep going.

But I think it could be helpful. So the world makes sense because you don't deserve to be cared for. And then what happens is like something in there as you're navigating those protective mechanisms, we see a lot of these coping mechanisms like eating disorders, you know, self-injurious behavior, substance use. We see all these different things. And if you really look at those, I, you know, I bet money, and you can answer this if you want to, that when you were engaging in self-injurious behavior, it would shut up the voice in your head.

And this is the really interesting thing about self-injurious behavior is that a lot of times it's not any intention to harm yourself. It's actually a very powerful, almost meditative technique that brings your awareness to the present. And all of the voices in your head shut up because there is something incredibly painful that demands 100% of your attention. Yeah. Hence why DBT. Absolutely, right? So what DBT does is it trains you to replace that injurious behavior with another meditative technique or awareness technique or grounding technique. that causes your mind to like let go of those thoughts and focus on one thing. And so I think the real challenge is going to be, and I feel like I want to build up to this better,

is that if you are worth caring for, it rewrites your history. Because that means that like everything that happened to you really shouldn't have happened to you. Yeah. Wow. That's just wrong. that just yeah I just realize that that's way

that's crazy because I always tell myself yeah no it's it's okay that it happened because it made me the first name today but if you say it like that you're right oh god yeah right it's it's hard

because here's the thing Nikki it's not okay that that stuff happened to you but that you know oh god damn it Nikki

okay so you know what is that we can just take a second yeah oh god take as much time as you it's okay

it's all right oh wow I've never I've never looked at it that way actually it was always like oh I'm so strong for getting over it and telling myself it's okay that it happened. But in reality, I know that it shouldn't

have happened. So what is it like to have that thought? I still want to, I still just want to do good with it. Like, as much as it shouldn't have happened, it, I can, I learn from it and I can take so much experience from it that I can use to help people. And I think, I think if I think if I I can manage to either and do this for someone else, like that it doesn't happen for someone else or help someone else to deal with it and to cope with what happened. I think as long as I can do that, it's going to be worth it. I know I'm just like projecting it on other people again,

but I feel like that's all I can do. So here's sure. So I think you're, the voice in your head is struggling. now, okay? Which is good. But you're saying like, if I can turn it into something good, then it makes it worth it. Nikki, no, it doesn't. Nothing is going to make it work. Nothing is it going to make it okay, right? And I don't mean to bludgeon you. I feel like I'm pulling out of that. No, yeah. No. I'm not going to let you sneak away, right? Because you're doing it, like your mind's trying to do it. Like, oh, then it'll be okay. If I can, if I can protect a hundred people's

pain by sacrificing myself, then that makes the sacrifice worth it. And this is what I'm telling you. This is why I think you're not going to be able to let people care about you until you recognize that fixing no amount of people's lives makes it okay, what happened to you. There's no amount of self-sacrifice that, like, I'm not going to let you do that. Saving a thousand lives doesn't make it okay. Right? Like worth it.

That's what you've got to get rid of. Uh-huh. Because that's once again, like that's you putting other people ahead of yourself. Mm-hmm. I tend to do that. Yes, you do. And so if you really want to be able to let people care about you, you have to let yourself come first sometimes.

Mm-hmm. And I think you're learning that. Mm-hmm. you know and I think you're right that chat there are boundaries that are important but when it comes to your friends and your family and when it comes to other people like wanting to listen to your opinion like you actually have it and here's a crazy thing so you think that your value is determined on the number of people that you help like I believe you have value no matter what you accomplish like that core thing there's nothing there's nothing you can do that that counteracts that voice in sight

like that's like you see what I'm saying there's like there's like the like you don't have to do shit mm-hmm yeah you have intrinsic value Nikki has intrinsic value she doesn't have to prove anything

she doesn't have to make it and like what happened to her was bad and there's nothing that will make it worth it I'll have to think of like days after Penny for your thoughts What are you thinking right now? Head empty

I'm getting that I'm getting you just nodding along in the way that you're supposed to which is fine I think also insightful that I encourage you to continue to think about those things but I think maybe we're short-circuited for the day

yeah so I don't know what to do now So, yeah, thoughts, questions, do you have any, you don't have to have anything in your mind? Because I think this is sort of what we go for, right? I think it's fine to process this, maybe talk to your therapist next week about it, whatever. Yeah, right. No, I don't think I have any questions about that now. But, like I said, I really like what you do, like what you want. work? Do you want to tell me, or I know a lot of my viewers are in chat right now, do you want to

tell us more about your work and what you do? Sure. Yes, we can certainly go to safe ground in the safety that of telling people about what we do. Because I don't think I can talk much about myself anymore. Yeah, I think we're done. I think it's Gigi. So yeah, sure, I'm happy to do that. So my name is all of Konoja. I'm a, I'm a psychiatrist that practices in Boston. I spent about seven years studying to become a monk and then met my wife and fell in love. And then she wanted to be married to a doctor. And so I went to medical school. She wanted to be married to a neurosurgeon, but I decided that wasn't for me. So I picked the next best thing, which is psychiatry.

and then what I really found is that there are a lot of you know mental health the the mental health challenges that people face nowadays are expanding changing very rapidly and that some of these perspectives that psychiatry has are like missing something so and I think Nikki actually you illustrate this really well where man you are incredibly resilient incredibly insightful I'm sure you'd be a wonderful clinician you have a very high IQ, which is emotional quotient. So I think your ability to read other people and understand what they need is like really high. And at the same time, despite all of the therapy, despite all of the intelligence, there's a perspective here about what is the self that I think is missing from

kind of like psychiatric treatment. Because at the end of the day, like we can, you know, you can do therapy and you can make these uncoveries in therapy, but sort of really grappling with this idea. of who am I and do I have worth as a human being and being taught that I don't have worth as a human being overcoming that being resilient and being positive and sacrificing yourself for the rest of the world is noble and wonderful and makes the world a better place and is also unfair to you.

So these kinds of perspectives is what we try to help people with is that there's definitely a mental health or mental treatment component. I think seeing a therapist is a wonderful thing. And I think you're just a really fantastic example of someone who's really internalized. I think it is amazing that you're saying that you don't really engage in self-injurious behavior anymore. We haven't really talked about it, but it sounds like some of your eating behaviors are probably better under control, things like that. And so I think you're a wonderful example of what we try to balance in people,

which is that there's like a mental health component or like mental treatment component. right, which is like the clinical psychiatry. And then there's almost like a more spiritual component, understanding yourself component, finding your purpose in life, trying to figure out, you know, what is the root of these patterns of who you engage in relationships with? How can we understand those things? So that's really what we try to do. And we started in the gaming community because I'm a degenerate gamer.

And what I really found is that a lot of people in this community like need help and need support. And the other really interesting thing is that I found that the standard psychiatry stuff, part of the reason it doesn't work ideally is because we actually don't play to the gamer's strengths. And in your case, Nikki, like, I think playing directly to the strength of your insight, like going out and trying stuff, like, you don't need to do that. You can actually figure most of it out up here. And I think that's what you've managed to do your entire life. Right? Thank you. You've learned how to survive and adapt, like all in here. Mm-hmm.

And so that's kind of the approach that we take. Mm-hmm. I like that. Now I'm curious, whenever I say you're insightful, like, do you, does that sink in or do you swat it? No, it does sink it. I, I take, I appreciate that a lot. Yeah. Like hearing that from, especially he was, you know, a psychiatrist, a trained professional, I do appreciate that actually a lot.

Yeah, you're sneaky enough to be a good psychiatrist. Thank you. Yeah, so that's what we do. You know, we can wrap up now if you want to. We can talk about meditation a little bit. I think this is going to be old news to you, but I was thinking about maybe taking a moment to explain a couple of things. We haven't talked much about diagnosis and stuff like that,

and I'm purposely not asking you that question because I don't want to. But if people are curious, you know, I can share some information that may or may not relate to Nikki, but I think is just useful information to know. Does that feel safe to you? Yeah, for sure. Okay. So the first thing is that, you know, what we're hearing from Nikki, and this happens to a lot of people, is that when we grow up in situations where sometimes we deal with things like abuse and neglect, we have to learn, like, almost as a survival mechanism, like how to read other people. So there's a lot of evidence that shows there's a really interesting. study on people who have borderline personality disorder, which is a diagnosis that relates

to early childhood trauma, where if someone's smiling, if I'm smiling, and then I get mad, if you look at that, like, if we were to like pause or like take a recording of that video and watch that transition, like, I'm smiling and then maybe this is like halfway and then I'm mad, you know, if we look at that transition and we break it up into a hundred still photos, where photo number one is 100% smile and photo number two, I mean photo number 100 is 100% angry. Most of us have to cross the halfway point before we can tell that someone isn't smiling anymore. We have to be at like 70% towards anger.

People with BPD can detect anger when people are like 80% smiling. So something happens in our brains when we grow up in environments that are traumatic, where when everyone else is smiling, we are actually able to pick out like negative things. And so it changes the way that we think. It's absolutely adaptive mechanism. There's an interview that we did with Coco B a couple, maybe about almost a year ago now,

where, you know, he grew up in an abusive household. And I asked him, like, how many seconds did it take from when your dad walked into the door, whether you knew, like, you know, today is a bad day or today is a good day? and he's like less than two, less than three. Like you know right away. So your brain is actually wiring to detect negative sentiment from other people.

And that can be really, really challenging because like even people who like you 80% of the way there, all you're going to see is the 20% frustration that they have. And that can be very hard for you to like interact with other people because even though most of the people are happy, all you're seeing is people being angry. And so, you know, I think that's something that we see a lot with trauma. The other interesting thing is that when people, you know, go through traumatic experiences, you develop this voice in your head that kind of talks about how you're a bad person. That voice gets reinforced by seeing the 20% frustration in every person you meet because

it's like, you see, I told you so, I told you so. Sometimes we also get into weird patterns and we didn't talk too much about this, but I'll leave this for you for later. but that let's say you meet two people. I haven't asked you about your sexuality or anything, but I'm just going to assume a heteronormative perspective for a second. So let's say you meet two guys. And like one of them genuinely cares about you. And one of them is an asshole who pretends to care about you.

And the interesting thing that can happen is that sometimes the genuine caring actually makes you feel so uncomfortable that you pull away from it. And you kind of pick the devil that you know. And so this is where like, that awareness of that discomfort, it becomes really, really important and sort of not giving into that discomfort or at least noticing, okay, am I giving into this? Like, why do I not like this guy? Like, what is my mind telling me? Which voice in my head is the one telling me that this is not the right

guy? And what is it that, like, why am I so enamored with this person? Oh, they're so caring. They're willing to drop everything for me. You know, they met me three days ago and they're going to move across the country to be with me. And you can feel so loved. But the problem is like that same guy, six months later, is going to move across the country for someone else. And then the voice in your head is like, see, I told you so. I told you you were unlovable.

He just got to know you. And you couldn't keep up the act for so long. So you got it. We're not talking about you. We're not talking about you. Remember, we didn't ask you any of the stuff. I'm talking about people. Generally.

I know. General people. See? That's stuff about, you know, you being unlovable, right? Because that's what we're talking about. Is that sometimes that voice tells you that you're fundamentally unlovable, because if you are lovable, it changes everything. And so a lot of times when we deal with those voices, we also get into, you know, our bodies, our minds, our brains, have to cope. They have to survive.

They have to adapt. So the voice itself is one adaptation. and then we also find, I basically have seen three things consistently. One is substance use. One is self-harm. And third is eating disorder. Eating disorder is the way that we get control over our life. I'm not in control.

I don't get to choose. I'm moving every six months. I don't get to choose who my mom hangs out with. But I get to control what I put into my body. And even when there are lots of signals from your body that are telling you you should eat something, you are going to say no. despite how hard things get, oddly enough, the harder things get, the more out of control your world is, the more empowered you feel by taking control of all of these sensations from your body.

You are going to win. At least in this temple that is my body, I get to decide what happens. And so we see this really interesting correlation between the eating disorder gets worse when your circumstances get worse. and it's like you trying to internally balance stuff. Self-injurious behavior, we talked about a little bit. Sometimes self-injurious behavior can be the result of like you actually like wanting to hurt yourself. But for some people, for a lot of people, it actually seems to be almost like a meditative technique.

When I hear people talk about it, when I ask them like, how do you feel before you do it? How do you feel when you do it? How do you feel after you do it? Sounds to me like meditating. Because you enter this no mind state where your mind is fully focused on the cutting or the burning or the whatever, right? And then substance use is sort of the easy oblivion. This is one that we do gaming to. I'm just going to load up this particular game and I'm going to forget about all my problems. And yeah, so kind of like wrapping things up, you know, here's what I'd say. If anyone

is struggling with either substance use, eating disorder behaviors, or self-harm, you guys should really do yourself the benefit. I think Nikki is the Nikki that we're seeing today who's incredibly adaptive and has managed to be like really successful at the age of 19 and all that good stuff. I think that she's accomplished through like doing a lot of hard work on your own, but also having some expert guidance. So I encourage anyone to go see a licensed mental health professional if you guys are dealing with any of that stuff. And also to try to understand like the fundamentals of sort of like who you are. You know.

And at some point, Nikki, I know it's terrifying, but at some point, you're going to push that back. Let me think about this. I was about to say at some point I hope you realize that you are worth caring for intrinsically and I know that there's a part of you that can get on board with that but there's a part of you that may be push that way so I'm going to say something else which is going to be a little bit more terrifying and a little bit more defiant I'm going to choose to care about you whether you like it or not why do you think you deserve it or not

I told you there's the baseball bat again I'm going to just care you can you can go fuck yourself I don't know well that doesn't be that you care of me though. Huh? That doesn't mean you care about me though then. Yeah, it's a little bit of joke. I know. I'm going to choose to care about you, no matter what you do.

Whether you become a psychiatrist and you save thousands of lives, good for you. And if you choose not to do that, I still think you're a worthwhile person who deserves a place on this earth and deserves happiness. Thank you. Sinking in somewhere. I don't know how much your swat to get aside. but yeah enough for today I would say so I think normally I would offer to teach you meditation

but I think today is a day where we're not going to do that I think we're going to just let you I've learned a lot about meditation that's the other thing and and maybe what I would yeah so I think we're just going to let you go now okay Okay, thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate that a lot. Yeah, dude, you've been awesome. Thank you, thank you. Good luck to you. Thank you. All right. Bye.

Oh, man. Chat. She is pogged, dude. Incredibly strong.