HealthyGamerGG - Bobby Scar

Episode Date: February 20, 2020

Dr. K talks with ex-melee pro and Twitch product manager Bobby Scar Stream Schedule: https://www.twitch.tv/healthygamer_gg Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/healthygamergg/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome, guys. So welcome to the Healthy Gamer G-G stream. My name is Dr. Alok Kanojia. I'm a psychiatrist practicing in Boston, Massachusetts. We have a very exciting stream today. We're going to have Bobby Scar, Bobby Scar, I think. Bobby Scar Newman. I'm confused. But, oh, and a hype train. Fantastic. So we're going to talk to Bobby. I think Bobby wants to talk a little bit about Dharma. So, um, it's a lot of, In the past, we've talked about the Sanskrit word called Dharma, which means duty or responsibility. And one of the big things that I advocate for is for people to find their Dharma. And I think that that becomes important because Dharma is that which us allow, that which allows us to tolerate negative things or suffering with like actually just a lot of strength. So it's easy to do hard things if they're aligned with your Dharma. on. And I think a lot of times people struggle because, thanks for the subs, sniffty, a lot of times people struggle because when you think about like the hard things that you have to do in life, you don't have like a good reason to do them, right? So if it's like getting out of bed or finding

a job, like finding a job in and of itself is not a good reason to, I mean, sure, like it's a good idea to have a job. But like money is not actually like a motivator that's going to help you overcome, let's say, video game addiction or depression or things like that. So you need like a really good, like you need a cause. Like you need a cause for yourself. So Harma is like a personal cause. And I think Bobby wants to talk some about that. What's up, man?

Not a whole lot. Can you just better, still surprisingly not back to normal, which, you know, is taking way longer than I expected. But can we just do a quick sound check? We can test. One, two. Does he sound okay? I hear you.

Okay. The people can hear me. What is up with it? Just a lot of... Yeah, okay, great. Oh, someone's saying make him a little louder. That's what it sounds like to me too. Okay.

Test one, two. All right. So, Bobby, so tell me, so first of all, I'm sorry. I know we've been scheduled to talk a couple of times. I just got, like, laid low for a really long time. Yeah. And have been kind of out for two weeks. So sorry about that. But hopefully I'm here now and hopefully I can help. So help me understand a little bit about, I understand you kind of reached out to us because you had some questions about Dharma. I just realized that you're like the one person I've responded to on Twitter too, by the way. Yeah, I did see you respond and I was like, oh, that's weird. You would be healthy gamer Gigi, but you have your own Twitter. Yeah. So, and I barely know how to use it. So.

Yeah, that should change. I should probably get on Twitter and spend a little bit less time on Reddit. Yeah, for sure. So tell me a little bit about what you wanted to talk about today and how we can be helpful. So, I mean, I reached out to you originally. First of all, that's a great question. I'm not sure that I know, and I'm interested in letting you drive. Okay. You know, you can poke around and play with some things. We've got some directions to kind of go in. Sure.

I reached out to you originally. You might if I do a quick interview? introduction? No, by all means. Yeah. For those of you don't know me. Yeah, I'm Bobby Scar. I am, if you do know me, then you know me from the melee community. I'm an ex-pro player. I was really good in 2009. Still good in 2012, trying to be good in 2019, but I don't have the time that the kids do. And I know, right? So I'm kind of like an elder you might call me at this time. So I transitioned into content creation and I'm a streamer, not full-time. anything, but I shout cast big tournaments and stuff like that, and I make some YouTube content.

But along the way, I kind of realized, you know, as I got a job and kind of gained more responsibility or whatever, I'd been tugged kind of in a direction my whole life. I'm sorry. And it was kind of, I guess I realized in retrospect, you know, I played this game, and I tried to get better at it pretty much obsessively from college. And, kind of as I looked back as I got older I was like oh man you know I learned how to create video content from the melee community I learned how to kind of like think from the melee community I kind of learned who I was and what I cared about from this community I got my first job through a connection in the community so I kind of like had an increasing sense that the game kind of made me everything that I am and taught me everything that I know and so kind of like looking back I realize I've been trying to build community to kind of make sure that other people can have access to the thing that gave me kind of like everything that matters to me.

Wow. Yeah. And so that took me to live streaming. So I work at Twitch. I've been at Twitch almost seven years now. So that's really long in the, you know, if you talk about like dog years, it's like two lifetimes in tech. Yeah.

And, you know, when we met, I think I told you, you know, you've seen The Matrix. I see myself more as Morpheus in this case and you're Neo where, I've been like scanning Twitch for someone to arise that's going to look a lot like you and kind of do the things that you're doing. And, you know, it happened in the last, I don't know, six months or so. And so I feel like I've spent a long time, you know, looking for you.

So I wanted to help. That's why I reached out originally. Okay. Well, yeah. So if you guys are just tuning in. So Bobby and I have had to, so we connected a little bit when I had to cancel because I was sick. And we were just kind of joking back and forth about which one of us is Neo and which one of us is Morpheus. I thought I was Morpheus and you were Neo, but we can get into that. The first thing

I want to just comment on, first of all, Bobby, is that it sounds like, you know, so I know that there's a lot of flack against gaming right now and like gaming communities and gamers. In 2019, the World Health Organization sort of classified video game addiction as a disorder. And recently, like President Trump made some comments about school shooters being related to violence related to video games and things like that. I just want to just kind of just point out that I think it's really amazing that it sounds like your involvement in the Mili community has really given you a lot of positivity. Like it's given you your first job opportunity.

It's taught you how to train. It's taught you how to think. And so like gaming is not evil. In fact, it sounds like it's a huge way to kind of help you figure out who you are. Yeah. Yeah. As far as I can tell, a game, when people are connected around it, it becomes this external and kind of objective way of communicating in a sense. We all agree to the rules of the game. And then once we agree, then we can really enter some dialogue about it. And it helps kind of, it also helps us kind of be more objective. And like, you believe what the game tells you in terms of like, if I win, then probably, Probably I know something that you don't, even if I can't express it or communicate it perfectly. So I don't know.

I found that in a weird way, a game can kind of help people connect on a human level. Like, if you don't have any objective kind of thing that we're all looking at, then we can be talking about two different things and kind of not realize it. I think my life has been about two key themes. One is communication and two is about belonging. I've kind of just been obsessed with how hard it is to communicate with people and how it's really interesting. A lot of the time, so I remember as a kid watching people in my family talk, and it was really clear that there were two different conversations happening. Well, you could totally tell that person one thought that it was the same conversation and person two thought it was the same conversation and like neither of them were correct. It's just very interesting how you can piece the puzzle of the conversation together even if it's wrong really easily.

Sure. I think maybe what you're referring to is that oftentimes when people have conversations, they're sort of just waiting for the other person to stop talking so that they can share their own thoughts. And it's almost like two concurrent monologues as opposed to an actual dialogue, which I see a lot. Is that kind of what you mean? In that, I think more it happens I notice in conflict. So say two people are not getting what they need. They're talking about it. I've been. kind of taken aback by like how unclear conversation participants can be about what the real issue is. You know, what are you really upset about is a question that I think that I ask a lot and I'm not sure how it's received,

but I don't hear asked a lot. And I think a lot of the time, you know, two people could make peace, but they never get to their real problem. And so you said the other thing that you've been kind of curious about is belonging. So can you tell me a little bit about that? Yeah, so, you know, growing up, so I was born in the East Coast to a Catholic family. And it's, sorry, I definitely have something stuck in my throat. I've been thinking about all the ways that I felt that I didn't fit in and all the, you know, little factors that conspired to make that, you know, really kind of obvious. But, you know, I didn't really fit into my family. I wasn't really into sports.

I deconverted from Catholicism in, I think, high school, which is an experience that I haven't really reflected on enough. It's like a big deal to kind of walk away from something like that without anything else to catch you. I didn't really fit in grade school. I had a series of friends where, like, kind of, I guess from my young perspective, I was betrayed or whatever, but we would have falling outs. I think in part because, you know, my parents spoiled me and, you know, I had a bunch of stuff. And so it's kind of a little bit weird to have a bunch of stuff. And then your friends don't have as much. And then it's like kind of I didn't know why that was the case, et cetera.

But anyway, so having not belonged for quite a long time, but then finding melee and like having this real sense that I do fit in was kind of nuts. It's one of those things where something was missing, but I didn't know what. and then I had this thing and it's like oh, this is the thing that was missing. Like, this is really great. And so what was it that you found with melee? Well, I think for the first time, you know,

to be honest, like I've reflected on this question a lot and I think that the the answer is that Elusive is what melee is. Yeah. Yeah. For the GameCube. By the way, thanks to profound soup for the gifted subs. Thank you.

We just had someone, yeah. Thanks for your support. You were saying, Bobby? Yeah, I think that it's kind of this sense of purpose that is purposeless. You have this pure sense of play. I think that's what I found. I found this sense of inspiration that came totally from within. So it's like, I want to get good of this game for no other reason than I want to.

And then also that it was kind of sustainable. And I could go really, really deep. And there were other people who were that deep and who were interested in that. I don't know about you, but I'm one of those people. where say a friend will say, hey, have you ever watched this series? Like, have you gotten into The Wire, for example? And I'll watch it, but I'll watch it and get really, really deep into the lore. And before I know it, I'm asking them if they know stuff and they don't.

So it's like I always feel like I go a little bit deeper in something that really interests me. And then I end up kind of like alone, you know, deep inside the lore of something. So that's not super sustainable. Like you may enjoy the content, but you don't get the human connection that comes with it, which I think is like critical. But it sounds like with Smash Brothers Millie, you found people who would get just as deep as you did. Yeah, it's both where, right? I got to, you know, when I think about belonging versus fitting in, it's like, belonging is when you can be fully yourself and still like accepted. Like I don't have to not be myself in order to like fit in.

That's that's the way that you belong. So it's like I can be myself as much as I want and other people will still be there and they'll be cool with me. Yeah, I think you're talking about sort of acceptance, right? So being yourself and being accepted for being yourself. Yeah. And fitting in is when you sort of become someone that you're not for the sake of acceptance. Exactly. And fitting in super toxic, for those of you don't know.

Yeah. Why do you say that? Why do I say that? Well, I feel that acceptance is a thing that we're hungry for. and authenticity is also a thing that we're hungry for, and those two things, you know, you end up on one side or the other with the realm of hungry ghosts if you choose to be purely authentic, but, you know, everybody hates you, you know, because you can't find a way to be authentic and to, like, exist with people. I don't know, it's difficult to transcend the need for, you know,

social interaction. Sure. Or if you, like, go fully in the direction of acceptance, but you sacrifice who you are, then, you know, you may feel good for a little while, but it'll come for you. You know, it'll... Have you gone down that road? Which one? Probably I've gone down both, yeah. Yeah, I've gone down both. I know my way around this space.

So, Bobby, is there something in particular that you wanted to talk about today or that I can help you with? Yeah, absolutely. But there's almost too many things. But one thing that we talked about was meeting people where they are. and there's a couple you want me to just cover a couple things sure so I listened to your

conversation with loser fruit yesterday and the rightness anger hurt what was there's more arrogance thing struck a really strong chord and I think if there's something there for me it's a different oh yeah is that what your sense is

yeah there's a different root you know I think I felt that she had a root that where you asked her a question and she gave an answer that I wouldn't have, but before that, I was pretty much my answers would have been exact. Okay. And I think that, yeah,

there's something really important there. Okay. What do you think is... The other thing that's come to mind is, there's this... I think it was Boris or something. I don't know. The dude you told to clean his room,

which I thought was really cool. Yeah. Bullious. Bullious, yeah. You talked to him about lying and how if you lie, you don't have to keep the thing, you know, that you're going to lie about, like in good order.

You can just have it be, in other words, you can have your life messy and you're just going to lie. So no one knows. I stopped lying a long time ago because I learned firsthand that it sucks and it just, yeah. But I have noticed, you know, from that conversation that the, okay, so I have a lot of thoughts and I think about the world in a particular way, but I have never decided to share what I think with other people. And so in a sense, it's not that I'm lying about it, it's just that I'm hiding it. And so I've never gone in there and cleaned it up and made it presentable.

And I think that there's something like important about accepting for myself the way that I think. That makes sense. Like I don't quite, I don't want. Yeah, I have the sense that I don't want other people to know the way that I think. Why not? why do I why do I have that sense or yeah what is it that makes you feel like other people there's a part of you that you don't want to show to other people yeah

I've had that sense my whole life okay so I'll talk a little bit about my history like or you know my kind of something more personal so in my family my dad's side there's a disease called CMT sharko Marie tooth it's like a degenerative kind of disease and I know that both my dad and his dad like have gone to extreme lengths to hide it from other people so like their whole life is about not being seen as weak because like their body is degenerating right and so they're always hiding something I'm pretty confident that that

same anxiety passed to me because I've had the sense my whole life that like I've been hiding something and for me I think maybe I just replaced it with like I don't belong or something like that But I've been looking for what I've been hiding my whole life, and I've never found anything. Like, what do I have to hide where if people found out the thing, then I would be outcast forever. I have a deep sense that there is something there, but I've never been able to find it. So that you want to hide something about who you are. And your hypothesis is that this was essentially something that you learned from your dad and your grandfather. Yeah. And I don't have the disease. It is a, what do you call it?

an inherited disease and I just didn't get the gene. So it's like, if I had it, then I would have filled in the blank with the same thing. And then everything would have been fine because my worldview would have made sense. But now it's been built on this thing that doesn't, you know, I'm trying to say there's like a hole. Yeah. So it sounds like you have, you feel like you need to hide something, but you can't understand what it is that you need to hide. Yeah. And so, you know, I've filled that in with a bunch of things along the line.

And, you know, it's like I've had a bunch of working. Yeah. So I've had working hypotheses about what it might be that I need to hide over time. And the answer is changed. But one thing that I still feel that I do hide without any reason is the way I think. I feel like if people know that about me, then they won't accept me. Yeah. So why do you think that that's unfounded, though?

It's possible. It is probably founded. It is probably well founded. I mean, didn't we talk about how. Yeah, go ahead. Didn't we talk about how you have a lot of kind of interpersonal conflict between people when you share your thoughts because they're not able to meet you where you are? And you're not able to meet them where they are? Yes.

So it sounds like when you actually show who you are to people that it isn't well received. I think that that's true. I also have the sense that when I approach a conversation from the perspective that I have something to hide, it tends to go much more poorly than if I show up without having you. hide anything. In other words, like, I'll hide some of my assumptions that help make the story make sense. Like, words that I'm saying don't make sense to other people, and I realize after the fact that I didn't say the, like, first part of the story. So let's just pause for a second and just think about this for a second. So you say that you have something that you feel like you need to hide about yourself. And let's just understand what the different hypotheses are for why someone

can think that. Okay? Yeah. So the first is that, you know, so I tend to have like an ammo, which tends to be around some scars, which is that you do actually have something to hide. And that's a very genuine feeling and that if we dig, we'll find something that will fit our hypothesis of there is something I need to hide. I just don't know what it is. But we have to pause for a second because that hypothesis in a sense, part of what I don't like about that kind of thinking is that it always presumes that the answer is like one layer deeper. And if we don't find anything, it's that we're not digging deep enough. Right?

So it's kind of tricky because it's like, if I believe that there's some like deep, juicy psychological root to all of your problems, I can continue to believe that. And if I don't find it, I can just say that, oh, it's deeper, it's deeper, it's deeper. So it's actually, it's not a very scientific hypothesis because it's not falsifiable. Agree. Second thing is, how much do you know about epigenetics or inherited trauma? Have you learned anything about this stuff? studied this.

Okay. No. I've only heard from you. So I think this is kind of an very interesting kind of field of frankly pseudoscience. So this is really in the qualitative research realm. So it hasn't really been that borne out, but is kind of a promising and kind of intriguing field. So the first is that when we think about what we inherit from people before us, we tend to think about genetics. Right.

So like if your dad has a certain hair color or eye color, your mom has a certain hair. color or eye color, you're likely to have those hair colors or eye colors. Sometimes, you know, depending on whether it's recessive or dominant, things can skip a generation. So we know that there's genetic inheritance from generations past. And there's a really interesting book. So this is more of a qualitative exploration about this concept of inherited trauma, which looked at Holocaust survivors and specifically the children of Holocaust survivors. And that the children of Holocaust survivors exhibited some signs or symptoms of PTSD, which really didn't map on to like any kind of trauma because they were never traumatized.

Right. So it was sort of like they had some version of PTSD, even though there was never a sentinel event, so that they believed and acted in certain ways, like almost like you are, right? So where you're trying to hide something, and that that can be actually passed on from generations previously. So there are kind of two scientific measurements. mechanisms through this. One is through epigenetic changes. So we have the actual sequence of our genes, and then we also have epigenetics, which is like the activation or disactivation of

particular genes, and those can actually be passed on too. So as you activate, let's say, like certain genes that maybe make you more prone to anxiety, even like you can pass on some degree of that epigenetically. It's still an emerging field. The science is not really clear. I guess pseudoscience is a little bit unfair. It's just an emerging field that we don't really understand. Right. The other thing is that it may not be something that's on the epigenetic level, but is something more on the social or psychological or like upbringing level, right?

So it's not nature on the epigenetic. It's nurture. So essentially, like, if your dad was anxious and like taught you how to hide, then you can sort of mimic his behaviors. Yeah. So children of abusive parents will oftentimes, be abusive. There's some really interesting research about if you have a child with an anxiety disorder and you have a parent with an anxiety disorder, you can actually treat the parent's anxiety disorder

and the child's anxiety will get better, even without any direct treatment. I totally believe that. And so then, so we have two scientific kind of causes for the first thing is that either this has happened, either you feel like you need to hide things. Number one, because there's something deep down that you need to hide. The second is that there could be some degree of an epigenetic phenomenon going on in terms of, like you said that, you know, and that's something that you've kind of pieced together, right? So that there's something like a tradition of, and that may have changed actually the way that your dad's genes were activated, and that can be passed along, or that it was sort of the way

that you were raised and taught and certain behaviors were modeled for you. And then we get to the really wild stuff, which is frankly like the sort of, um, Garmah reincarnation, like that kind of thing, which, I mean, I think is, so first of all, is a little bit more spiritual. But I think generally speaking, you know, I think a lot of these like more spiritual or non-scientific concepts are actually supported by science the further that science advances. So if we think about karma in this idea that like you, you are born with certain things that are from beyond this life. That's basically what karma says. is that all causes have effects and that all effects have causes. That's really all karma is saying.

It's actually like Newtonian physics. So every action has an equal and opposite reaction. And so if you look at your particular life, that your particular life has causes, so the effects of your life, the way that you are today, is actually affected by things that happened before your life even began. Yeah. Which sounds like that's true. Yeah.

So the interesting thing. From the perspective of like my worldview. you anyway, I think if that's true. What do you mean by that? Like the, I really want to get this thing out of my throat, man. This is killing me. This never happens. Go get some water. You got, you get some water? Okay. Is that going to make it go away? I guess it kind of does, yeah. You have post nasal drip? Is there actually something in your throat or you feel like clearing your throat? There was, but I think that I, the water flushed it out. Okay, good. You're on top of it. Um, so I said, from the perspective of my worldview, that makes sense.

So basically, like, I've gone to all sorts of lengths to figure out why I feel, like, not good enough. Not good enough, I know is a theme. A lot of people feel that way. I have a very deep sense of it. And I've, like, tried to fix it. So I've tried to understand it. And so belonging and community is the number one thing that's helped me feel like a good enough person. But I've noticed that if I'm in the melee context, you know, I feel good.

it seems I leave that context, you know, it kind of goes out the window. And I found that to be very interesting. And so I've kind of noticed that I have these different personalities in relation to different communities. And I've thought pretty deeply about that. Like as a Twitch staff and as an employee, I feel one way. You know, with my family, I feel a different way. With the melee community, I feel a different way.

With like my wife's friends, I feel a different way. I've played with that. I actually like meditated for an hour a day for 100 days to try to like get deeper into my mind. I found that we could talk about that a little bit later, but I felt very anxious when I meditated. I don't think that I wasn't, you know, I didn't have the right, well, anyway, I didn't kind of accept the thoughts as they came. I was trying to be enlightened. I actually straight up was like, all right, I'm going to achieve enlightenment. And I know that my idea about that was like not well-founded. So, Bobby, I'm going to jump in for a second. So you say

that you kind of have a sense that you're not good enough. Yeah. And that you've tried a lot of different reasons are a lot of ways to fix that because you're assuming that that's like some kind of pathology or that's something wrong with you. And you tried meditation and different kinds of environments and circumstances to help you feel good enough. Yeah. Okay. So I have a really crazy question for you.

Have you considered the fact that maybe you're actually not good enough? Yes. That's been hypothesis number one. And how do you feel about that? I mean, I believe it. I believe that I believe that I'm not good enough for sure. So I feel great about it. It makes everything make sense. Yeah, so does that cause you suffering?

That's a good question. What I'll say is that that idea does not cause me suffering. I feel totally fine with the idea that I'm not good enough. What does cause me suffering is to have reflected back to me, something that I don't believe is true. So if someone else kind of, you know you were when you were talking about when you're talking with loser fruit you said something about cutting yourself some slack and that being something that she could try maybe it was with the guy you had before Mitch Mitch Jones okay but anyway my kind of response as you asked that question you know the one that comes for me is that I don't cut myself any slack and I like that and I want other people to know that I don't cut myself any slack so that when they ask me questions like In other words, I wish that I had some way of saying, like, you don't believe that I've done this due diligence, but I have.

So just stop asking questions along this line unless you really want to get into it. Because, like, I've already done this work. Like, I don't cut myself any slack. So I don't need you to, you know, ask me a billion questions about. There are a couple of different things going on here, okay? Cool. The first is how you relate to other people, which is, who, fucked. So we've got to get into that, and I can help you with that.

But the second thing is, I want to offer another option. So I, so generally speaking, when people feel like they're not good enough, we almost assume that that is like a sense of inadequacy, right? Yeah. Do you feel inadequate? No. Okay, so good. So now I think you are one of the very rare people where your sense of not good enough. So I don't usually say this to most people, right?

Like, so for most people that I talk to, if they tell me that they don't feel good enough, we try to dig into how their insecurity is actually like, comes from a root. that is unfair. In your case, I actually think you're not good enough. Okay. Because it's strange, right? Because in your sense, you're not good enough doesn't actually cause you a problem. It doesn't cause you suffering. So I think your sense of not being good enough is actually the calling of an incomplete karma. Oh, I totally agree with you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not, yeah, I'm not, yeah, I totally agree with you. And so in your case, I think that that force, that causes you to strive to be a little bit better, which I don't think you need to be better. I think you do something that's a little bit unhealthy with that, but you need to help yourself understand that you're, first of all, you're not good enough.

And secondly, that that's okay and that over time, you will become good enough in the way that you need to be and in the way that the world needs you to be. I'm trying super hard. To what? To be the me that I think the world's asking me to be. Yeah, so that's your problem is because you're trying super hard. And the more you try, the less authentic you become. Okay, I think that that is true. So you're right.

So what you need to do is just understand that you don't need to try to be anyone else. You just need to be you. Oh, people won't like me if I'm me. So then we get to the second part, right? Which is the fuck, which is the way that you're right? That's why I don't be who I am. People won't like me if I'm me. I believe that.

Yeah, that's because, so I don't, that's a problem. I agree. Okay. But that we're going to have to. Going to go slower. We're going to go into how you relate to other people. But the first thing that I want you to understand is that I don't think you're good enough. And I think your good enoughness is not like a deficiency or inadequacy.

And I'm glad that you actually don't feel inadequate. because I think this is rare. Your good enoughness is actually just a sense of incompleteness. It's like a ball that's been thrown up in the air and hasn't come down. And so just have faith that, and maybe this is where, you know, I would encourage you to. And yeah, okay, so we got to get to the other people because that's your hesitant. I think that's what the way that you relate to other people makes it hard for you to accept the person that you are. because other people are not willing to accept that person.

But I don't think that they actually see that person. I think they see some distorted version of that person. Because I think you've got other kind of things that come out when you relate to other people and when you talk to other people. But let's start with. So I think it's okay for you to not be good enough. I think you're not good enough. I think you have just an incomplete Dharma. Right.

So that sense of not being good enough is your Dharma. So until that voice is quieted, you should continue to start. strive to be whatever the world needs you to be. Also to be yourself, because the world is not going to ask you to be anything that you cannot be. Mm-hmm. Ooh. I feel, okay. I think that what you're, I understand what you're saying. Here's, let me repeat back. I don't necessarily get, I'll tell you what I do understand. I felt that people have told me that I need to be a different person and I found that as I listen to them, they don't feel that anything's gotten better. And so I've learned to kind of not trust when people tell me, oh, you need to talk in this way or you need to do this,

you need to do that. And that rather they're pointing at a sense that they can't quite put their finger on what the real problem is. Okay. And so when you say the world is telling you, like I kind of try to listen to, let's call it reality. Like people can tell me things, but oftentimes the words, the content is not like really where the meaning is or where the money is, as you put it. So I feel like what you're saying is that if I read between the lines, the world is not and has not asked me to be not me. It's just asked me to be me. Yes. And also, the world has told me that I have a feeling of not good enough and my not good enough comes from a job not yet done, which is my feeling. But that's not coming from the world. That's coming from you.

Which part? The feeling of not being. good enough. Okay. So the world is asking you to be a different person. They're not the world, but individual people. So I'll give you an example of the world telling you that you're good enough. And that's Mealy. Yeah, for sure. So when you think about the Mealy community, you just showed up and you were just you. I just showed up. Yeah, I never did. And that was sufficient. That was enough. You felt like you belonged. So we actually have evidence that when you show up in the right place at the right time and you be the person that you're, that you are, that everything is. That everything is. is hunky dory and kosher and wonderful.

And that's you fulfilling your Dharma. Okay, can I ask you a different question? Can I pivot slightly? Here's the thing that happens in melee that lets me show up as me. And I have a question all the time when I interact with people. It's even happening right now of like, why? Like, why am I here? Why are we talking?

Why does anybody care? Like, why? There's a why question that with melee, the answer was melee. And there was no question below. it. Yep. Like me talking to you, I'm excited to talk to you, so maybe that's a good enough why. Like, I'm here because I want to be and I just want to, I just want to talk with you. But I find that like social anxiety and even, you know, I'm really working on parenting because I have a three year old and I don't want to pass my insanity to him. I have a why question of like I want to do a good job as a dad,

but it's like it's not a why. It's like, how do I do that or what does that mean or what does it look like? It gets complicated and then I'm in my head and I'm all vodka, right? Right. where um is that the right word yeah sure but listen so how do i be me who am i good okay so how do you be you so here's the problem with being you the problem with being you is you're concerned about the consequences of being you and the more you become concerned about the consequences of being you the less you become you right hell yeah i'm concerned about the consequences i learned right that I should be concerned about the consequences there's a lot of pain that's that's what you got to unlearn right so that's the pain that you got to process because let me explain something

to you you can't you can't right like like like does that make sense to you or no no no zero so so you know you have a three year old right so your three year old like comes up to you sometimes and wants to do something and then like like what's the last thing your three year old ask you to do? Be a monster. Okay. Be a shark. Okay. And so like, eat the corn and the tomatoes that the farmer's growing. Okay. And did you do that? I did. Okay. So was that what was the consequence? Did you mess them up? No. But I think if I said no, I don't care about your stupid shark. That wouldn't have been bad. That would have been bad. I agree. But what, what did you feel like? What was the authentic you telling you to do?

I really would have preferred to rest. Okay. I chose to be a shark. Okay. Right. So net net net. Net net I prefer to be a shark. Okay. So so and that like that's that's what being a parent is, right? Like your kid sometimes shows up and like wants you to be a shark and you want to rest. And if you're just going to do your Dharma to your child, it's like being a shark for a little while. there's the other thing that you need to understand. If you tell your child from time to time

that daddy really doesn't want to be a shark right now, I'm super tired. Is that going to mess him up? No, that would be a nice way to say it. But I feel guilty sometimes. I don't know. I've been listening to how you talk about, you know, how you are with your kids, and I think it's really good,

and I want to learn how to do that better. How to be less apologetically me. I have this kind of thing that's in my mind of like being a little bit more shameless. What you need to do is stop trying to be better. like this is the problem is that you have a sense of of of incompleteness right but then you think that the solution to that incomplete list if you're not good enough the solution is to get better that's where you're making a mistake you don't need to be better just because you're not good enough doesn't mean that you need to be better because that sense of completeness or becoming

better is going to happen like you didn't create smash smash happen to you whatever is going to happen to you Like, you get that your kid happened to you. Yeah. Like, you didn't, like, your kid is amazing? Yeah. Did you make it? No. So, like, like, if you didn't make that amazingness, what makes you think you can fuck

up that amazingness? Yeah, you're right. You're right. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, you're right. You're right. Right about what? You're right.

It's like completely ridiculous. It's a delusion of control to believe that I can, that I, like, yeah, that I super duper influence my. it because I do realize, you know, through meditation, I barely even control myself, you know. Yeah. So, so this is where... But I think that I can both control myself, predict the bounces of what I'm going to do and how he's going to hear it at that particular moment so that I can craft him into a... It's ridiculous. Exactly. Right. So that's the thing. You can't craft him into anything. You can't make him be good

and you can't make him be bad. So also just share something from the field of psychiatry. So sometimes when I'm working in the emergency room, which is not something, thankfully, I do. much anymore, but I actually kind of miss it. So sometimes you get a kid who comes in who's like completely, oh, who has something that we call SLS, shit life syndrome. Like that's the diagnosis. They have like ADHD and PTSD and depression and this learning disability and this kind of thing and they've been in juvie and they've got this caseworker. So like there are all these like diagnoses that we check. But really what it is is there's this wonderful nurse practitioner who works in the emergency room who's like, she's just, she's a veteran. So she's been doing it for a long time.

and she was like a brilliant person taught me a lot about psychiatry. She's like, this kid doesn't have any of this stuff. This kid has shit life syndrome. And then, so then something funny happens. So like when you meet the kid and the kid is like a complete asshole or whatever and you try to be compassionate or empathic or whatever, and you make some progress with the kid. And then at some point you meet the parents.

And then one of two things happens. When you meet the parents, you start to ask yourself, how, can you still hear me? Are we frozen? Uh-oh. Hold on. Twitch chat. Am I live? Frozen.

Crash. Okay, hold on. Oh, are we back? Can you hear me? Bobby? I can hear you. Okay. So I was, where did we lose you?

I thought it froze for a second. You're asking chat? You didn't lose me, but. Oh, okay. So you heard the story about, then you meet the parents, okay? Yeah, one of two things. It happens.

You either, so at some point, like, you know, you meet a really, like, messed up kid, and then you meet the parents and then you say, oh, that's why they're that way. Like, how did this kid end up like this? And then you meet the parents. You're like, oh, that makes perfect sense. That's how. But sometimes you meet the parents, and they're like the nicest, most wonderful people in the world. They have two siblings who are also, like, wonderful people. And you're like, how the fuck did that happen?

We have no idea. That sometimes, I mean, I know it sounds insensitive, but, like, sometimes you just get, like, a bad kid. And it's not the kid's fault, but it's also not the parents' fault. my point is that you know like your kid is amazing and you didn't really make him that way he's just who he is right it makes sense to me and so you can't craft him into something but you can certainly do right things or you can do wrong things right

there are times where you can say like you know I'm too tired and there are also times where you can like be a shark so you can do your Dharma to him but you don't control the karma you control the Dharma you control what you do you don't control what happens to him. Yeah. And who he becomes. You just do the best that you can. And at times, it's important to tell him that you're tired because he's got to understand that like other human beings have like feelings and limits. You know, and he can start to learn compassion and things like that. So I think that you can, you know, logic yourself and thought loop yourself into thinking that you're doing a bad job no matter what you're doing. And so to kind of sum up, I mean, I think, yeah, I think I think, I think, you know, your problem is that you try too hard to control the consequences of your behaviors. For sure. For sure. Yeah, I see that. And so, okay, so let me just think. Is that sufficient on that? Do we want to talk about other people?

Do you need a, you know, an analogy about nature to drive things home? No, I think I understand what you're saying. Okay, so help us understand what I'm saying. I think that, I mean, you talk about it all the time, man. And I know it from playing melee. Like, if I'm trying to win, the best thing to do if you're trying to win is like, don't try to win. Like, you just have to play. Like, it's always a paradox at the end of the day.

I think that you're telling me that I'm not seeing, I'm seeing a paradox as cause and effect. Where, like, I can just try to be better and that's going to do the thing. but if I want to be better, I need to not try to be better. Exactly. Right? If I want to be who I am, then I need to stop trying to. Trying is the devil. I mean, I'm trying to figure out who I am so that I can be who I am.

I'm trying to control being who I am. Which is kind of ridiculous. Trying, trying, trying, trying. Like you can't, you know, sentence doesn't come out of your mouth without the word trying. Yeah. It doesn't come out of my head either, right? My head is. Exactly. So that's how we're seeing what's in your head and that's the problem. You need to pull out trying. And this is where...

I think it's related to other people. I agree. So I think I completely agree. So I will get into that. But now I want to just go back for a second and just remind you that. Okay, let me just think about this. So oddly enough, I think your sense of not being good enough is actually could be your solace here. So for a lot of people feeling not good enough is a sense of inadequacy, which makes you want to try harder. but if you can accept that you're, and I think you're halfway there because your sense of not being good enough doesn't cause you suffering. It's not a sense of inadequacy. It's just the sense of something half done, right? And so if you can take solace in the fact that the other half is going to come when it's going to come, that a flower is going to bloom when it blooms. Like you can see the bulb and you can say it hasn't bloomed yet. And like that doesn't have to be a problem. And the flower can think like, oh, I need to bloom.

But like, no, you're going to bloom. it's just going to happen when it happens. And that's what Smash taught you. So your karma is teaching you this already. That in order to create this amazing child, you didn't need to try to do anything. You just needed to be the person that you could be, be the best person that you could every day for your son.

And as long as you do that, he seems to be doing pretty good. And you're afraid that you're going to curse him with all of your negativity and stuff like that. Don't worry about it, man. If it's in his karma to get cursed, he's going to get cursed. and it's not something that you can control. You can just control the most that you can do. So take solace in the fact that you actually don't need to try

and that your sense of completeness is going to come. It's going to come the same way that Mili came, the same way that your son came into your life, the same way that like important things are happening into your life, the same way that you are, you were Morpheus looking for Neo and then lo and behold. I knew you were going to come. I knew it.

I predicted it. I knew it was going to happen. Yeah, so maybe you are Morpheus, right? So that's the thing. So take solace in that, right? That life is going to give you what you need. And you actually don't need to try. Because the most amazing things that you've done in life have been without trying.

So it's not a winning strategy, buddy. No, it's a terrible strategy. Yeah. So now we can... It's difficult to learn that strategy generally. And I'm excited to get to the next part because I think that's in the way. Yeah, I completely agree. So good. So let's talk about what's the next part? Other people.

Absolutely. Good. So let's talk about other people. I've got two camps. You're one of my people or you're not? If you're one of my people, I could be myself. If you're not, I cannot. And I've noticed that I have a, you know, if there's a score system, you start out, I don't even know where you start out. But I've noticed that I have no mechanism to kind of increase my sense. trust only to decrease. And that once it's decreased, it'll never go back up.

It's like totally messed up. Okay. How long do you have that system? I think as long as I can remember, to be honest. What's your, can you tell me a little bit about your upbringing? Yeah. So, yeah, I have one little brother. He was, he was, he's two and a half years younger than me, something like that.

I was, I think, pretty much showered with attention. Like, I think my parents, my parents' parenting style was basically, like, love, you know, love my kid, like, just purely express love, like get stuff for them. And then I think my dad had this strategy of if there's something that I don't like, criticize it until they stop doing it. So, you know, I've kind of wondered, you know, we talk a lot. When you get into psychology, you kind of think about the story that kids tell themselves. And I kind of have this feeling that before my brother was born or whatever, or even before my dad got concerned that I was a brat,

the game that I was playing was basically just show up and be me and everything's going to be totally chill, right? People are going to get stuff for me, everybody's excited about me, everybody wants to listen to what I have to say. And then one day, my dad starts saying, you know, as I'm just doing my normal stuff that always is a winning strategy, he's like, hey, you know, you're being a brat. Like nobody likes a brat and like kind of making fun of me.

Then if I cried about it, it's like, you know, you're being a crybaby or whatever. And it's like, well, that's fucked. You know, what happened to the old game where I just, you know, you never did this. I'm bringing all this up just because I feel like this is kind of how I've thought about how to explain how I work

because it is difficult to explain. Sure. So, so, yeah. I'm just laughing. Why are you laughing? I'm laughing because, so the more that I get conclusions from other people, the harder my job is. You don't want conclusions.

You want... Right. So your conclusions are generally... So when I get conclusions from people, so it's clear that you've thought a lot about this. And I've noticed this in the couple of conversations we've had, Bobby, that sometimes it's hard because I have to like unravel your conclusions to try to get the raw data so that I can make my interpretation.

You'd rather me give me the raw data. Yeah. I think you're going to give me whatever you're going to give me. And it's fine. I'm just laughing because it just means I have to, you know, it's just my thought process is going to be different. And I think for overall, it's generally good that people are thoughtful and reflective because the upside of what you do is that we cover a lot more ground because, you know, I don't have to stop and digest everything. But let me ask you this. Did you ever kind of get back to where you were with your dad?

No, not yet. Not quite. Recently, I think something happened where my dad was worried that I wanted, because I moved away and I changed my last name. you know, there's a couple things I think he interpreted as me, like, distancing myself. But we had a conversation and came to a head and I pretty much told him like, hey, man, like, I love you and I'm your son and like, I want to, you know, I want to, I want that to be the case and there's nothing else going on. I think since then we've kind of connected a lot more. Like I noticed something changed. But my dad was very much like more the dictator and the authority, you know, he's very high stress. He's a very anxious person. I think he's like a workaholic to kind of cope.

And my mom kind of keeps the peace. And my mom was kind of the one who like listened and stuff. I never got along with my little brother. We like fought a lot. He kind of picked on me and my mom told me to like because I'm older. This is maybe when I was six or seven. It's like my responsibility to just like kind of take it. And that I think was very formative.

Like I remember that. I have very few memories from my childhood. but I remember that very clearly. How do you think that affected you? Well, I think that it makes me more patient. You know, I've noticed that I'm a very patient person. Like, I can listen to other people when they're feeling hurt for a very long time. So I can sit with feeling hurt, I guess, for a long time.

But on the other hand, I don't really know how to take negative or critical words from other people. I don't know how to deal with it. aside from kind of letting it in and believing it. That's a conclusion, but I guess I've just noticed that when my brother did that, it's like for me to not react, like I had to find a way to not react. And so that's created a bunch of behaviors and coping strategies and stuff. Like what? I definitely think that kind of just wondering if they're right is a pretty effective strategy

to not react to something. So my brother would be like, oh, you know, you've got a piece of pizza face or whatever when I had acne. And it's like, I could be upset, but if I stop and think about, well, maybe I do, you know, and then I feel like some shame or whatever, then I don't really react. What's wrong with reacting? That was what my mom was asking me to do, in other words. I interpreted it as, like, don't react to the, you know, if he's making fun of you, like you're the older brother, so be patient. And be patient in my mind was don't react. Okay. Isn't that what that means?

Sure. Like what would she ask me to do it? Yeah. Yeah. I think I just, I have a lot to say actually, but I'm just thinking about it. So let me ask you this. So I'm almost getting the impression that, you know, in your dad, your relationship with your dad was sort of, you started out in a particular place. And then you kind of got bumped down a notch because you were being obnoxious.

And then you got bumped down another notch because you were. you were being a cry baby, and that in a sense, it's been really hard to claw your way back up. Yeah. For what it's worth, I don't have any real memory of being in that original place, but I'm sure that I was, you know, from like videos and stuff. You just remember the backslide. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah.

So I remember, like, at a certain point, I kind of understood my dad as more of a force of nature and less of a person with feelings and motivations and kind of like control. That's helped me. And when you think about other people and when they lose ground in your eyes, how do you think about them? Do you think about them as people or do you think about them as forces of nature? Forces of nature for sure. Absolutely.

For sure. No question. One of the things that really struck the core was when you asked a question of like, okay, so if someone does something to hurt you, I'm also very, very sensitive. I feel hurt all the, you know, very easily. Like, is it better if they have a good reason or a bad reason? Like, a bad reason is kind of like unacceptable in my mind. And I just kind of don't even consider that that's possible.

So there has to be a good reason. And the best good reason I can think of for like lots of people ignoring me and stuff is that, you know, they're kind of motivated by other things. And like, I'm not really part of the equation. It helps numb the pain for me to think that someone did something and it hurt me. And, but like they weren't really thinking about it. Bobby, you experienced a lot of hurt, man. Yeah.

Yeah, I think I have the empathic sponge thing, dude. When my wife will tell me stories about, like, you know, her coworkers or whatever, and like, you know, they did this thing and, like, it wasn't quite right, and she's upset about it. I feel like I feel her hurt in judgment, but I feel the other persons, like, struggle to be good enough and to be seen well in other people's eyes. And then it's like, I feel, I feel so much when she tells me that. I feel like I feel the whole world of hurt. So you caught yourself. You almost said I feel hurt all the time, but you didn't quite say that.

Do you feel hurt all the time? Almost all the time, yeah. Yeah, I do. It feels like the incompleteness that I have, to be honest. It feels like... You got to get that? No, I don't think it's for me. I don't have an appointment.

It feels like I deserve it. but it feels kind of sad, but it feels motivating at the same time. Hold on a second. Sorry. Yeah. Dr. Kay with the phone, dude. Who is it? Who? Sounds like a dog barking. Hold on a second. Yeah, for sure. It's 1104. My time. I hope I don't have an appointment. I don't think I do.

Homie sounded convinced when he said, I'm here to see you. He sounded convincing to me, too. I may have to step outside for a second and just figure something out. Yeah, so Bobby, I mean, so it's that feeling of in that, it's that feeling of not being good enough? No, I feel like, no, it's different. It feels like someone else, it feels like someone else or lots of other people feel hurt and it's my job to do something about it. Like I feel like I have to protect them from from kind of what I experienced, the hurt that I experienced. That's what it feels like when we talk about me feeling hurt all the time. That's what it feels like. It really does. It feels like what?

I feel like I'm hurt because I identify with other people and how hurt they are and that I need to do something about it. Okay. Let me just think for a second. Let me figure out who's in my office too, okay? So I'm going to just, I'm going to have to stop at about 10 or 15 minutes. Is that okay? We can pick this up. But I just want to go back to, so when you feel hurt, you feel like you have to protect other people from that hurt? Yeah. Yeah, I feel a Papa Bear instinct. So if my wife is telling me about a coworker and how that person's like not doing their job or whatever, I remember when I couldn't do my job and like no one taught me how to do my job. And that's fucked. Right. And I know other people looked at me in this way, you know, where it's like, oh, you suck, but it's like no one taught me. That's not fair. And I feel like it's time for me to step in and make it clear that like you can't just treat people like that. It's okay for people to not know. what they're supposed to do. But then it's so, but there's so many different layers of that thing happening all the time. So what gets overwhelming? What, what, what ups, what kind of conflict do you have with other people? Can you give me a little more to go on? Yeah, so like we were talking a little bit,

I feel like I'm, go ahead, go ahead. So you were kind of talking about how like, you know, sometimes people say things to you and you feel like, like you, you know, you do your due diligence and they'll question you. and then you'll feel like they don't respect that you're doing your due diligence. Right, right, right, right. Yeah, I think that the conflict. So here's the conflict that I think that I have. I show up to work every day and I show up in most places every day feeling like I've got a job to do. And it's like a big job.

I also am aware that this is more of a conclusion. So I won't even add that part. And so I'm coming to work and I'm having a conversation and it's like, I understand that the stakes, for example, like community is very sensitive. So I've really deeply studied community. You need to find a way for people, like lots of different kinds of people, to find their way in and be accepted, really be accepted, without compromising the integrity of the thing that people are coming together around. It's very delicate and it's very sensitive.

And if you get it slightly wrong, you can compromise the integrity of the community, which is devastating to everybody, or you can ostracize someone who's trying to come in. And that's also devastating to me personally. So the stakes are very high. and I'm trying to communicate this and I'm trying to do this kind of like very advanced in my mind very technical

very delicate dance and like other people aren't on that level they're not thinking about it the same way and I can't get them to think about it the same way and I know that the you know the decision or whatever other perspective is out there could hurt a lot of people does that make sense?

Yeah so so that sounds incredibly frustrating Yeah. What upsets you about the way they treat you? I just felt it. The thing that gets me very, very angry is, like, what I perceive is unearned confidence. Oh, my God. Like, I get so angry if someone's saying, like, no, no, no, it's just this way.

Like, it's simple, and they don't even, they don't have the full picture. So, like, kind of a disrespect of the, when you brought up arrogance, it's like, okay, in my mind, all human beings were like naturally arrogant. Whenever anybody says something, they want to believe that what they just said is correct, right? So provided that that's going to be true, and I don't want to say anything wrong, I have a deep sense of not saying anything wrong, I need to be aware of my own arrogance. And so I need to check everything that I think is right because it's probably, it might be wrong. But it's because I think it's right, that's like zero data. It's like, you know. And so I'm trying to,

to hold that for me and for other people. Like, I find that I do that in the melee community. I try to hold our arrogance in check. And they let me do it in the melee community in a lot of other places. I don't, no one lets me do that. And so I get very angry because it's like, no, no, no, you're just literally being biased. Like any executive at any company, you know, Nintendo or could tell me, oh, I know this, that, and the other, but it's like customer dog. I'm your customer and you don't know your customer. I know you don't know your customer because of everything you're saying. It shows me that you don't know what you're talking about. So just like, Why do I even need to talk to you?

That's kind of the anger that I feel. And so what do you think it is that people, so we were talking earlier about how, you know, you not being good enough is reinforced by the way that other people treat you. But this seems different, right? So I think what they're responding to is not the authentic you. Yeah. What are they responding to? So what you just said, I don't know if I, I hear it and it makes sense, but I'm not sure that I believe it. What don't you believe?

What you're responding to is not the authentic you. I think maybe I think it's the authentic me. The me that's trying, I think is the authentic me. No, it's not. Exactly. So that connection has not been made up here. Like when you said it, I was thinking to myself like, no, no, no, no. So very good.

So the authentic you doesn't try. if you're trying you're not the authentic you oh oh oh right so the authentic you is being it's not trying I think also what's going on is something they're triggering something but what comes out is actually not the authentic you what comes out is some sense of now this is important so I think there's also inadequacy like this sounds like inadequacy you're like you guys are not giving me the respect that I deserve absolutely yeah it's all that you go I can tell I don't shrug anything off so but that's not the authentic you so then the question becomes so then I think like your whole like like it's not your premise is wrong you're doing this weird thing where you have a sense that you're not good enough and that's your incomplete karma and that actually doesn't cause you any suffering or lack of peace or anything like that that you actually have been complete and good enough several times

in your life. Oh, okay. Okay. I just have a flash of something. I'm sorry to cut you off. Go for it. Okay, so I feel like what I'm trying to do,

my karma, my Dharma is like, I'm trying to cast AOE belonging. Let's call it that, right? You're doing AOE healing. I'm trying to cast a belonging. And I kind of do it in the melee community, and I'm trying to build the tools

that I would need and that my community would need to grow way faster. That's my idea. That's what I want to do. I want to do it for us, but I also want to do it for other people like me

and other people like us. which includes you. I'm trying to control that outcome. Yeah, you're very welcome. I'm trying to control that outcome. And I feel so close, Dr. K, to being able to do it. I feel like I'm so close. If only, right, if only I had the respect,

where people would listen or only, if only these things, then it would be done. And not only would I be complete, but like it would bring, you know, something really important to the people of the world, which is what I have to do. And I feel like people are in my way. That's what makes me crazy.

What do you think about that? I think at once it could be true, right? It could be true that I'm right about some things that are really important. I also think that, you know, I think about other people. I'm like, I'll get upset about it, but I'll also kind of... So, Bobby, go ahead. I'm going to cut you off. Okay, sorry.

Yeah, do it, do it. Here's the problem. So I think that you have this burden on your shoulders. and first of all, you're trying to do it, right? So that's mistake number one. And the harder you try, like, the more you try, you're like, I want this. Like, it's like, it's almost like, I'm going to use this weird analogy. It's like you're trying to get someone to love you.

Yeah. Like, I want you to love me. I want you to love me. I want you to love me. And then in comes someone in the middle and gets in the way of you making someone love you. And then you get mad at that person because why are you in the way of this great work that I'm trying to do? I'm trying to save humanity with AOE belonging and you are like getting in my way.

And then I think what they're responding to is not your authenticity, but like this whole complex. Like this is not you. Like the way that you created belonging is not through trying, it's through being. It's a subtle difference. Subtle, subtle, subtle, subtle. And I think what they're responding to

is your frustration that they are not getting in the line. And I don't think you can blame them for that because that's fucking, you know, you're like, you're telling them that like, it's like you're playing whackamol and they're like the one nail that is like a little bit above popping out of the bench and you're trying to hammer them into place and they don't like it when you hammer them. And that too is like there's some part of you, I think that sort of longs for this kind of sense of, you know, the greater good and that everyone needs to get in line. and it's like a little bit like, you know, like, I mean, there's a lot of, you know, the road to creating the greater good is like tramples on to all kinds of people. Right. And I think that what you what you really need to do is like, first of all, take a step back from trying to create this thing so hard like that. So if you can solve the trying, I think a lot of this stuff is going to get better. But then secondly, like, it's not that you're inadequate. It's just that they're responding to you being an asshole. Which I believe is probably true.

Which I think sometimes you can become. And the reason that you become an asshole is because you're trying so hard and someone is getting in your way. I'm also trying really hard to not be an asshole. But it turns out that trying to not be an asshole and trying to doesn't add up into doing the thing and not being an asshole. I mean, so I think this is where like, you know, taking a page out of your mom's playbook, I think what you need is patience, right? So the first thing is that you can't make this thing happen. because it's like false. Like if this one person gets in line like what you're going to,

what you're trying to create is like not going to actually happen. Secondly, the things that you need to accomplish what you need, what you want to in life to do your Dharma, they're actually going to pop up and help you out. Like you're playing an RPG where like you walk into a town and there's a guy there who's ready to join your party. You don't have to make him.

He's there. And like you're, that person and like so whether you're Morpheus and I'm Neo or the other way around, like you predicted my. rise within the world of Twitch and here I am to help you out. And so you've got to take a step back and do what you need to do. And if there are forces that are getting in your way, you know, don't take it personally because it's not personal. They just don't understand.

They may not be as deep of thinkers as you are. But like you can't blame them for being what they are. You can't be mad at a cucumber for not being a flower. Right. And somewhere along the way like your relentless pursuit of this. great thing, I think, is letting you engage in all kinds of bad mental stuff in your head. I agree. Yeah, I agree with you. And so... Can I ask a question? Sure. My question is back to who am I, but who am I if I'm not trying? Like, I haven't been anyone who's, I've been trying for a

long time. Yeah, but you haven't, right? So like when you, it's purpose without purpose. That's not trying. It's the thing with nothing underneath. You've been it, Bobby. Yeah. You've been it. So like, like I have a meditation practice for you and then unfortunately I'm going to have to stop. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I did actually make an appointment. So not the guy's fault. I just, just texted him incorrectly. But so I want you to like just like, like what do you like to do with your kid? Again, I'm trying to figure it out. I like playing outside. I like playing outside. Do you ever watch your kids sleep? Yeah, that's pretty dope. So like, so I want you to just watch your, your kids sleep, right? And then like, like, I can't leave my sleeping children alone.

So I have to like attack them and kiss them and rub their feet and things like that. Yeah. And, and just bother them to no end. But so I want you to think about like, you know, when you're doing, when you're in that moment and they're being who they are and you're being who you are, where's the trying? Right. So like sit and just do that and look for the trying. and then the next time you're in conflict with someone, look for the trying. Okay.

Right? Like just take a snapshot of watching your child's sleep and take a snapshot of an interaction with another person where they're not being the thing that you will want them to be or whatever. And just see how different those two moments are. And then you tell me, so we're going to have to do follow up, so I apologize for having to cut things a little bit short,

but you tell me then which one is the real you? All right. For sure. I'll do that. I'm going to look for the trying. Yeah. Look for the trying, right? And look for the absence of trying.

Look for the trying and look for the being. Yeah. And I think the more that you can gravitate towards your authentic self, I think like you've done it a couple of times already and you're going to continue to do it. And then we can get into like what's the deal with this grand, you know, this grand work that you have to do. Like I don't doubt that it's grand work. But when you start thinking of it as grand. work is like when it gets into a problem. Like I run into all kinds of problems when, you know, I take

seriously that people think I'm here to like save them and stuff like that. There's a real cult mentality that if we're not careful is going to grow in healthy gamer. Yeah, for sure. And, and so it's, it's just, I mean, it's just about individual conversations, right? It's not about, I mean, AOE healing is cool and all, but it's not about what the viewer count is. It's not about other people. It's a conversation between me and you. Yeah. And that's the karma that we do. And as long as we stick with that trauma we're doing great and I think you've got to learn how to just be yourself a little bit more yeah the other the other thing is like it might be right the last thing is like I don't know where this like deep well of hurt that seems to never end comes from I don't think it comes from the outside

I think it comes from within we got to understand you know where did you learn to hurt so easily and like what's what's the deal with that yeah bad because I think most anger has its origins and hurt and you seem to me to be incredibly angry. Yeah, for sure. And so that means that you got hurt somewhere, right? And like, even when you respond to those people in those moments, like, why don't you guys take me seriously? Like, that's you, that's like anger that's coming from hurt. Like, they're hurting you with their words. And then you respond with anger. So, like, I don't know what that. That's completely separate from what we were talking about earlier. Like, yeah. So that we can get into. But, yeah.

Anyway, cool. Good work today. I got to run. Okay, cool. So, sorry, guys, but I think in your case, your meditation practice is to catch the trying and to watch your child's sleep. We'll do. Okay. And then if you've watched something, maybe you can lead everyone else.

Are you going to leave me live? Are you ready? I'm actually not live right now because I'm on a Mac and it's like impossible. Who should I raid?