HealthyGamerGG - Bobby Scar Pt. 2, Belonging, Acceptance, Inadequacy

Episode Date: February 27, 2020

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Um, I heard what, uh, I was listening to what you're talking about. You mentioned you're going to trigger some stuff. I was like, no, no, no, no, no. Um, I don't know that I'm going to trigger some stuff, but I, I just meant that we'll pay attention to when, uh, when the ego is triggered. Yeah. Uh, yeah, ups and downs, but I think yesterday I had a, I, I, I entered a place where I felt like I was, um, like I can tell that there's two modes that I'm in. one is very small and activated, and I'm kind of stuck in this hurt, anger, shame thing, and then another, which kind of doesn't even understand that. It's like a much more confident place that. So I kind of have noticed that when I'm noticing trying. Okay. Trying what?

Well, the practice that you basically gave me was to notice trying. Yep. Because I was trying all the time. And I noticed, I mean, I would love to share the conclusion, you know, kind of the bigger insight that I thought I got. Can I do that? Yeah, please. So I feel that what I uncovered is this sense. So I wrote it down on this little whiteboard. But so like, I decided long ago that kind of the world and other people are acceptable as they are. Like, I don't really resist what, what is the external world's telling me. And then like, but because people react negatively to me all the time,

or I felt that they did as a kid that I'm unacceptable. Okay. So I feel like, but I know that deep down, I only kind of care about the other people around me or whatever, and I'm not going to hurt them, you know, and I want to be nice and I want to be friends.

And so I feel like what I noticed is, okay, I have this inner sense of, I just want to be nice, but then the outer response is never that we just be friends and things are simple. It's always, in my young part or whatever, my young mind, it's like, it always goes wrong. So I decided that basically the problem is somewhere in the middle. Like there's something going on that's about me where I can't get out that I want to be friends and want to be nice and stuff.

So what I'm trying to do is I'm kind of trying to control how the stuff that's in gets out into your brain. Yeah, you are trying. You're trying to control other people's perceptions of you. That's 100. That's what I notice that I'm trying. And I also notice that the trying comes with a sense of panic. Yes, absolutely. I'm panicking at a very low level pretty constantly.

Okay. And panic to me, it's kind of like, even if I write something on my hand in big letters, I can't see it because I'm like ruffling through the papers of how to fix the thing. Like in panic, there's like such little awareness. It's just on one thing. Okay. So let me just pause. Okay. Are we good on volume?

Perfect. Okay. Sorry. I was adjusting volume. So I couldn't give you 100% attention. But can you tell me that part again about so you accept other people for who they are? But somewhere along the way you decided that you yourself were unacceptable. That's right.

And that when you interact with people, you feel some degree of panic. So panic is a manifestation of fear. And fear is related to a particular outcome. Yeah. What is the outcome that you're afraid of? Well, okay, that's interesting. So I guess the outcome that I'm afraid of simply is that people, are not going to see the real me.

Okay. But it's really, it's kind of a bigger story where it's my fault. You know, I'm going to mess this up again. Okay. So tell me about when you started messing things up. So as I thought about it, I kind of realized that my thinking that I mess things up started from a very young age. I have little flashes of, um,

You know, I remember my uncle John was hella cool with me. I remember the people who felt safe. And I remember it was a small list of people. And I also remember that circumstances changed and that the safe people would sometimes become unsafe. And I didn't know why. So I want you to just understand for a minute. We're going to dig into that for a second, okay? But the first thing that I want you to understand is that your mind operates in different modes.

Yes. Right? So when you're with safe people, the some sense. scar is dormant. Okay. And so then that complex of like I need to make sure that this person likes me, I need to be careful with what I say. That complex, like that's why you think about your uncle because your sumscar was

dormant. And then what happens is the sumscar activates around other people or some people who you thought were safe do something that activates where your buddi, your intellect, says, oh, this actually matches the sumscar. We're actually not safe right now. This is that situation. Yes. It looks like a horse, but it's actually a wolf.

And oh my God, we have to be careful. It's like a wolf in horses clothing, right? So it's a, I didn't get the wolf in horses clothing. It's a bad analogy. I was just kind of saying that like it looks like one thing. But I think I understand what you're saying. It looks like one thing, but then your mind says actually it's not what you think it is. That person is not safe.

that person is dangerous and we have to be back on we have to go back to controlling the way that they think about us yeah so tell me about tell me about like who like what do you remember about like when you started to feel like you had to control other people's perceptions that's a really good question give me give me a second i can remember excuse me i can remember being like four or five or and being around aunts and uncles and having the sense that I'm supposed to say something and not knowing what that thing is. I also remember pretty clearly the feeling of when I did talk about what was interesting to me, which is nerdy shit.

No one understood what I was talking about. And people will kind of look at each other and everybody would be like, oh, this is weird. And so, I guess I didn't draw the conclusion yet that the answer or the solution was to control, but I do remember feeling that feeling that I respond to with the trying at a very young age. Yeah. Your question was when did I know, when do I remember actually trying though, right?

Sure. We can we can stay where we are there. So I want you to just put yourself in the mind of a four or five year old who tries to talk to an adult. and the adults kind of like, it's clear that they sort of care about you, but then they kind of, oh, oh. Yes. How does that make the four-year-old feel?

What happens in the four-year-old's mind? You're asking about what I think I'm different four-year-old. I identify so strongly with the four-year-old that I find that when you ask me that question, I feel you're just asking me. Yep. Okay.

What happens in your mind? What happened in your mind? It's almost worse, right? That this person, like, has to love me and care about me and they can't find what I'm talking about interesting. It's like, holy shit, I must be so weird and boring or whatever that, like, the deck stacked in my favor. Absolutely.

It's still screwing it up. So now we see actually that the Sumskar is enhanced because of their caring of you. Yeah. Right? The, the hurt that you feel, you're like, these people, they have to accept me. Yeah. But it's clear to me that they shouldn't want to. Yes.

Yeah. Actually, as you bring that up, I noticed, like, an inherent discomfort with the feeling that someone might accept me or want to be around me because they're compelled to, not that they are voluntarily choosing. Like, I have a hair, like a hyper sensitivity to. Yep. So now we get to also something. So I think when you try to control other people's reactions towards you, I imagine that that's quite painful for you. Yeah.

And you can't help yourself. Could I refine? I mean, this could be just, you know, ridiculous. This could be, you know, ego and stuff. I mean, I would love help with understanding what's going on in my mind, actually. My sense is that I carry the sense that I'm unacceptable, with me all the time. And that I actually am not necessarily trying to control the other person's reaction

so much as perfectly filter out what I am putting out there to avoid the part that's like the unacceptable me. So I am in a sense trying to control their reaction, but from my own locus of control, right? Absolutely. Controlling my presentation. Yeah. So, you know.

Great. So I think you're spot on. So that's what I mean. So what I'm saying is that you're not letting people form a genuine and authentic judgment of you as a person. Absolutely not. I feel I've already made that decision on their behalf. Actually, one of the things I noticed with the trying as I was, you know, in the past week is that, for example, if at work I want to get something, you know, I think that something's really important and it's the right thing to do. I will immediately go to a line of reasoning that's basically like, I know that you shouldn't agree with this idea just because I'm saying it. I'm so untrustworthy.

So don't look at me, look at the evidence and the document that was produced and like the track record. Like look at the objective stuff because if you look at me, I know that you're going to conclude that I'm bad and wrong. You should do this idea in spite of the fact that I'm attached to it or associated with it. Does that make sense? Makes a lot of sense, right? Like pre-determined that. Yeah. So your conclusion is that in that too, so you're trying to filter the part of yourself, which is unacceptable.

and you're relying on documentation and logic for people to, because if they actually saw you, the more they're able to uncouple you from your work product, the better the work will be. And if they see who you are, then they're not going to have faith in you. The work should stand on its own two feet and it shouldn't be like tainted by association with you. Right.

So, and so I, unfortunately also i think happens to be true in terms of like when i think about ideas for myself i shouldn't just believe what i think because i think it because that's like you know what i should be super objointed that i've kind of that that that's true because i but anyway that was a that was a tangent so so let's go to why do you so when you filter what does that feel like for you when you filter who you are and present it to the rest of the world what does that feel like for you. Yeah, it feels terrible. What feels terrible? It feels terrible. Mostly, what feels terrible about it? Honestly, when it feels really bad is the bigger picture feeling that I have

is that I'm here and I just want to be helpful and I don't want to hurt anybody and I don't need anything in return. And no matter what I do, that will never come across. That's what it feels like in my mind. Like, I don't know. I feel like I want to do. My intent is to, sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead.

It's like, the ideas that I like are ones that everybody likes. And so, like, I'm coming and I'm trying to say, like, hey, I think I know how to help. Like, we could do this thing and then it's going to be good for you and you and you and you and actually everyone wins. And it's better because these people are hurting and they'll hurt less. And like, y'all are stressed out. You'll be less stressed out. Like, let's just do this. And it's like, there's this idea that feels super pure that's just going to get, it's almost like a dog that's going to get kicked.

It's like this innocent kind of thing that for whatever reason I can't. So when the idea gets kicked, do you mean that something pure is going to get rejected? Yes. Yes. Okay. Why do you think that happens? And it's going to be my fault. Because the reason it gets rejected is because it ends up getting associated with you. Well, to be honest, so it's like I already know the end of the movie.

You brought that up with somebody else before where I'm not, this is not, now that we're talking about it, it's very clear to me. This is not logical. But I've predetermined that that's how it's going to end. Okay. Like there's something that I have that I want to share with the world and it's a good, pure thing. And at the end of the day, it's going to get rejected and it's going to be my fault. Who did that to you when you were young? what did you share with people that was rejected damn dude isn't it like everything my thoughts

my attention is it everything my offers to help okay um like my presence yeah is that how you felt did you feel like your your presence was offensive like does something come to mind yeah yeah for sure um can you share that with us presence being offensive i think like grade school. Tell me about that. Yeah, I have a couple, I have a number of memories that are that are around friends that I had when I was young that I had falling outs with for various reasons and kind of sense that it was my fault or something.

I don't know where to start because I think it's kind of tangled in some ways. Sure. So why don't you just start with, just start anywhere. All right. Just give me a memory. So I remember being really good friends with this kid who lived across the street. Beautiful. It was a summer home. He was older than me.

So maybe I was five or six. Maybe he was eight or nine. And I thought that he was the coolest person in the history of the world. And, you know, we hung out. Like, we did stuff. So on and so forth. He would come to my house. I would go to his house.

And then one day, he asked me, he was like, hey, let me see your laser pen. My mom had just bought me a laser pen. It was like 90 bucks or something like that, which is a lot of money when you're that young. I don't know why my parents would buy a night. Anyway. And so I went to grab it and I like opened the drawer where it was and it wasn't there. So long story short, you know, it was like pretty clear that he stole it and like he was just doing that as just a stupid kid. Like stupid kids draw attention to things that that they did. And I definitely remember, ooh, so I remember that my parents kind of got involved and they talked to his parents and it was kind of like he wouldn't

admitted and was not upset about it. And they were like, okay, this is, you know, you can't be friends with him. And I distinctly remember feeling like I didn't really care that he stole the laser pen. I'd rather be, I'd rather have a friend. And so I almost felt like it was my fault that they found out that they stole it, that he stole the thing. Because if they didn't find that out, then I still would have my friend.

So you felt responsible for y'all's friendship ending? Yeah. I remember feeling responsible. Yeah. I remember just feeling like I had this thing that was, you know, kind of beautiful to me or precious to me, like a really cool friend. And it was gone. And I didn't do everything that I could have to stop that from happening. And so it's almost as if you had filtered yourself and not shared that with your parents. Yeah. Then y'all would still be friends. Yeah, maybe we would. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I. I also remember later, which I think is like built on top of this one wound or whatever, that, you know, he told me these stories about this game Clock Tower where he was like, oh, yeah, you could do anything. And like I found this woman and like killed her and stuffed her in a basement or some shit. And I remember it's kind of messed up and I didn't understand how messed up it was at the time. And I remember that I shared that in second grade when a teacher said some shit about like, are video games violent or good or whatever? I love video games, but for whatever reason, I volunteered this information. But then I found out that was a lie. So it kind of re-contextualized the relationship I had with him in the first place

where not only did he steal this thing and not care, but also lied to me about some things that I thought were super cool. So now I've got this judgment from my younger self for even thinking that he was so cool. So you blame yourself for thinking he's, that you blame yourself for him thinking that he was nice to you when he was mean to you. Yes. So that I have a lot of that. Yeah, okay, it's probably separate.

I have a lot of that. Like, I notice that when I look back at myself, I really feel not good about who that person was. In what way? What do you not feel good about? I just feel like, what do I feel not good about? I feel like such an idiot when I think that I'm okay and something gets recontextualized as I'm not okay. Does that make sense?

Makes perfect sense. So let me put it to you. It's like when I have the slight hope that I am acceptable, because like this whole subscar is about unacceptable. When I have this slight hope that I am and then I learned something later that's like, oh, you were actually wrong there too. It's like, wow, I was such an idiot for even like hoping. Yeah. So that actually does sound very related. It just as you tie those two things together, right? Because what I'm hearing from you is that you have learned that your confidence and your perception of acceptability turns out to be false. Yeah. But that too, so I want you to

noticed this, that is very selective would be. That's selective reasoning. Say more. In the place where I'm at, I don't even see it, which is proof of the phenomenon. Exactly, right? So like that's, so if we just think about, you know, can a five-year-old

appropriately judge the intentions and quality of friendship that an eight-year-old offers? Absolutely not. It's fucking absurd. Five-year-olds will get owned day after day after day by eight-year-olds.

You literally don't know what's going on. Yeah, literally. Like you just, you do not even have, you're playing, it's like you're playing a game without a controller. It's like Shrek. It's like Shrek,

how little kids can watch Shrek and all these jokes just go way over. Like, absolutely. No awareness that they, and so Shrek is running circles around little kids. Yeah. And yet, so even when we stop and think about that,

but like that's not how you see yourself, right? you have a standard that you should have known better. You shouldn't have let him take advantage of you. Yeah. In a sense, what you're doing is not, you're being unacceptable towards yourself. Like you are not accepting who you are. Yeah. Right.

And I think that that's the crux. So, I mean, we're talking about other people not accepting you and where the feeling of unacceptance comes from. I think wherever it comes from, it's certainly reinforced by yourself or propagated. actually by yourself. I think the lynch pin here is that you don't accept who you are. It's not about actually showing people. So it's actually funny because you kind of think other people can't see the real me, but what it really is that is that you don't think that the real you is worth showing. Because you aren't okay. That's why you have to filter. Because you're tainted.

I agree with everything on a visceral level, except the phrase that I don't think the real me is worth showing. It's like I think maybe what feels more correct is that I've already looked and I know it's not good enough kind of thing. So it's not that it's worth showing. It's just that I know what I'm going to show and it's not what it needs to be. Actually, the thing that clicked for me yesterday, I was talking to a good friend and a guru. And he was kind of asking about when I chose to look at myself that way, when I chose to not be acceptable. to myself. And that does seem like the original,

that seems like the thing that persists. Yeah. My own, yeah, go ahead. I completely agree. I mean, I think this is propagated by you, right? So now we have to understand. So even though Bobby, this is, this causes you suffering. This is how, this whole complex is based to protect you.

Yeah. Because if you believe that you are unacceptable, then you can't, then other, if other people, then you have to filter. Because if they see what's unacceptable, it's going to be a no-brainer. They're going to reject you. But this really comes down to where, so two things, right? So one is where that belief comes from and when you started to build your life around that belief.

Early. So now I'm going to ask you, when you feel this way at work, like when you feel like the rejection is inevitable, it's going to be kind of a weird abstract question that may not sense. How old are you? actually my sense of internal structure collapses. Absolutely. I think I must be so young because I don't even have a sense of like my physical body. Absolutely. Yeah, it makes perfect sense.

So I think what you are. I think that's a good practice. I mean, I just want to share that because I think it would be helpful for others. Like if you notice that sometimes you feel like you have structure and sometimes, if you track that, sometimes you feel like you have literally no structure. Like that's, I think, really meaningful because that's the thing that really clicked for

me is that I have a sense of my structure right now talking to you. Yep. But when I think about being at work, I actually don't even. Yeah. I feel like I don't have a body. So when a somscar activates, it returns your mind to the age at which it was formed. So, and so I think what's happening is like a four or five year old doesn't really have a sense of internal structure. Right?

They don't. So I think what's happening is like you're evoking these thoughts or feelings that come from there. They don't actually come from the here and now. They come from the past. Yeah. And so, I'll just give you another example. So I was working with someone and they had a lot of social anxiety.

And we were talking through like what that meant for that, like what that felt like for them. And then, you know, like I kept on asking questions and like he was just unable to give me any kind of sophisticated answers. Like I was asking like, what's the feeling? and he's like, I don't really know, like, what's the, you know, so then we were talking about, so he wanted to get a, he wanted to get a job, but he felt embarrassed to go into, like, a place and ask for an application for a job. And as we talked to, like, how irrational that is, like, it didn't really make a dent. And so then, like, eventually, like, we got to, like, I pushed him and I pushed him and I pushed him and I pushed him. And his response was, I just don't want to.

Yeah. And that's it. right it's not complicated it's not like Freudian there isn't this deep subconscious conflict it's just somewhere along the way when he interacts with people when his mind formed this idea I just don't want to it's like not even a fully formed like grammatically correct sentence the core of it is I just don't want to and that's actually enough that can be the end of the road yeah and the interesting thing is he's doing way better now because like now he realized that like in him there's a part of his mind that is just not going to want to do something.

And you can't make sense of it. It's not some deep subconscious conflict. There's no edipal want to sleep with your mom and knock out your dad or like any of these deep complicated stories. It's just within him there's a seven year old who just didn't want to go to school because he was bullied. And he didn't want to put himself in front of people. And he just doesn't want to. That's it. It's the end of it.

Yeah. There's nothing to unpack. There's nothing to explore. that's it. And he carries that seed of I just don't want to with him all the time. And there are times where that seed emerges, like most of the time, like he's able to do things with his friends and stuff like that. He actually does want to do things. He does want to get a job. He wants to get a job at particular places. He thinks the people who work there are cool. He'd like to work there. He thinks it would be fun to work there. And when he thinks about walking up to them and asking them for

a job application, the I just don't, he gets a case of the I just don't want to. And that's the samscar that activates. And the real challenge here is that people think, so like Bobby, you think this is you. Right. You operate under the assumption that this is who you are. Like your conclusions, you don't treat this as like an external thing. You treat this as you. Yeah.

So he just feels like he's a lazy fucker because he's got a part of him that just doesn't want to. And he identifies with that. he doesn't understand that that is just a sumscar that activates from time to time. And if you actually look at your life, that you are valued by many people, that he's appreciated and loved and people think he's cool and funny and also physically and sexually attractive, and like all kinds of stuff that he just like, I just don't want as is not able to hold that. And so in your case, I mean, you say that you have all this kind of conflict and that you're unacceptable and that you've gotten really, really good. it filtering yourself, which is probably how you rationalize your success. But it sounds like you have a kid and you're married and you have friends and you have meaningful relationships.

And also you've held a job for years. And so you're not so abrasive or toxic that they fired you, which they do. And so like, let's just think about that for a second. Are you so good at filtering that you have fooled all of these people? So the way that I rationalize it is actually with a sense of duty and responsibility to the other people who feel the way that I feel. I think somewhere along the line I got the sense that I wasn't alone in feeling I was unacceptable. I think that this is important because I think that I actually grew like this separate part with that belief. In other words, I don't necessarily rationalize it.

In other words, if you ask me why I think I'm successful, I would say that, like, I get it. I get the struggle. I build products for the people who have the struggle that I have. Not everybody has the struggle that I have, and I don't think that I'm better than them at all. I just think that if you haven't gone to this deep, dark place of all that stuff, and you haven't really looked around, you don't get how sensitive it is as a four-year-old, as a five-year-old, as a seven-year-old. And so when I'm building products, I'm holding the four, five, six, seven-year-olds and all of us, like, in that, design. And I feel that like, do you know what I mean? So that's, I'm with you. So that's your

Dharma and that's your karma. So this is how karma and Dharma relate. They're so related. Yeah, it's crazy. So explain that to us. So I've had experiences in my life that have been painful. They haven't killed me. And for a long time, I thought I was alone in that. And that really hurt. and so I know how much hurt there is in that feeling. And because I know how much hurt there is, I know how important it is to tend to that and how hungry people are for that kind of tending and that kind of attention.

So I know that, you know, through that negative experience, I have something that, you know, later on, I don't know how it happened inside me, but I decided that we're not alone and I can do something about it. And if I never had the experiences, is if I never had, if I didn't have the karma, if I wasn't led to the place where I was where I made that decision, that that's the thing that I'm going to fix. Then, you know, I could never have the duty and responsibility to do it.

So perfect. Right. So your karma, even your hurt and your suffering. Yeah. Set you up to do your duty or responsibility. Yeah. They made you the person that you are. And without those experiences, you would not be able to have hurt and suffering at the forefront of

creating products for like creating stuff at Twitch. Yeah, exactly right. Which is kind of bizarre because when you think about product developers at Twitch, I don't think that that's the kind of thing that they would be thinking about. But I think if, you know, you've been at Twitch for six years and Twitch has done very well over the last six years. I think part of the reason is because you're keeping something really like deeply spiritual for lack of a better term.

I mean, I just call it spiritual, but maybe psychological, whatever. at the forefront of the work that you do. And it doesn't surprise me that you're successful there. At the same time, I feel right, it's a part of the exact same narrative where it's like, hey, this is the thing that I'm doing and it works and you will never, you, right, the others, the people who find me unacceptable, you'll never believe me and never let me do the work that I feel I have to do. That's where the conflict comes in and where I really start to control and have that anger,

or hurt swirl. Good, so let's talk about that. So the first thing is that I think that these things are not actually related. I think the Dharma and karma is sort of a genuine sense of who you are. And I think the unacceptability, like the Dharma is what lets you tolerate and get away with your feelings of unacceptability. But I don't believe for a second that having the Dharma that you have makes people like you. And that if you've been successful at Twitch for six years and you've managed to get married and you're have friends and stuff like that, that human beings are pretty good at like judging other human

beings. And that there's something that they see in you that they actually do wholeheartedly accept. Otherwise, because here's the thing, you're abrasive, right? Yeah. It depends. It depends on if I feel that I, but yes. So let's just say yes. Let's just say yes.

And so just think about this for a second. For someone who's as abrasive as you are, they sure as hell have to accept. something deep within you to have to like work with you on a day to day basis. Yeah. Right? Yeah, I am very different. Yeah. Different contexts.

But, but I think ultimately like I have to agree. I mean, I think you're. What is my sense? I have this sense that the, you know, I'm unacceptable. The people who accept me anyway, those are the safe people. The people who don't, those are the unsafe people. That's kind of how I've rationalized it. Sure.

There's some people who can, who can accept someone even like me. Yeah, so I think that that makes sense. I don't think that that's really a rationalization. I think that's actually just an accurate observation. That for with some people, you know, you have the perception that you show them the real Bobby and they accept you and therefore they're safe. And that there's a larger camp of people who can't, you can't let them see the real Bobby because they won't accept you. And then you're like abrasive and combative and you don't understand why they don't understand what you're trying to tell them and stuff like that. And it sounds like actually in some ways you're hard to work with.

Yeah, that's probably true. Yeah. And the bizarre thing is that... I'm sure that that's true. I'm sure that that's true. And the bizarre thing is that... And I don't know what to do about it. Yeah, we'll get to that. Yeah. So, but the bizarre thing is that if we really look at your situation, if you have an abrasive person who people continue to work with, rather than them being unacceptable, their acceptability has to be way higher because your abrasiveness is making it, like, harder to deal with you.

Sure. Yeah. So in a really weird way, I think like the safe people or larger, that that group is way larger than you realize. Yeah. So I think you're right about that. Yeah. Yeah. So now the question is like, where do we go from here? Okay.

So the first is I want you to recognize that, you know, as we start to think those kinds of thoughts, that runs contrary to the perception and construction that you've made. Right? Which is that your perception is that you're unacceptable on the inside. and through a lot of lot of surface level filtering, you can create an appearance of acceptability. But what I'm actually hearing is quite the opposite, is that on the outside,

you can sometimes be difficult and abrasive. So you're not creating anything like the filter. You're actually creating like a negative filter, not a positive filter. Yeah, negative filter. Despite the negative filter that you're putting out in terms of your abrasiveness and your internal sense of your unacceptability,

people are able to see through that bullshit and still value working with you some capacity. Yeah, my real sense, actually, so I have the sense that I'm acceptable, deep, deep down, but no one will ever, ever know it. Like, whatever, however I talk, however I interface with the rest of the world, I, in other words, like there's some gold deep down, but there's so much shit between the gold, which is me or whatever, that no one will ever see the good, that's the struggle that I live with every day. Okay. I know deep down there's value and then I want to help. And then if I, if only I didn't, if only I wasn't such a problem, that stuff could get out into the world.

So give, does that make sense? Makes perfect sense. Okay. So what I'm hearing is, so I'm going to ask you a question. When, so tell me about, if you remember anything, about when someone didn't dig through the shit and find the gold. When they looked inside you, you opened the doors and they just saw a sea of shit. And they like ran away.

I remember feeling misunderstood as a kid where so okay I have a really strong memory I don't know if I brought it up where it was a Sunday and I was playing with my cousins that I bring that memory up I was having so much fun it was the kind of childish joyous fun where you know the whole rest of the world's gone and you're just where you are and then on Monday it turned out that I had homework that I was supposed to do and I just you know I had you know my pen I was caught with my pants down and this is maybe the third time that I forgot to do homework or something. something like that. And I remember really getting the riot act or whatever. I remember that really being like, hey, you, you've got a problem here and this cannot happen anymore. And so it's kind of recontextualizing that joyous fun with, right? Like, who gave you the riot act? I couldn't. My parents and I think the teacher was like not, not particularly happy. Okay. I remember one time very clearly I was in fourth grade. I remember it so well that something happened. The teacher said something and like I was actually listening to them, but I think I was doing it in an abrasive way where it was kind of a know-it-all way. And I actually got punished just for clarifying what the teacher had said, because I knew that

somebody else didn't understand what they said. And I just felt like, what the F, you know, I'm actually trying to help you do your job and I'm getting punished. Like, that makes no sense. So I, it's almost- This is what I thought I was supposed to do, and I'm getting punished for what I'm supposed to do. Yeah. So what I'm hearing is that you offered your gold and they perceived it as shit. Yeah, yeah. I feel like when I think back to my childhood, there was a lot of mixed messages. Like there was a lot of times when I would be in trouble for no reason. Like maybe my dad would be having a bad day and he was just stressed and I didn't, I couldn't

understand that he was just venting. Can you tell me about your dad? Yeah, my dad. I think that if people knew my dad, it would make so much sense out of me. he uh he's so okay he's like basically always the coolest guy in the room um he's a shorter italian guy i think he's 5-7 or something like that you know it's like a he doesn't look like joe pesci at all you know he's skinnier and stuff uh he's more vata for sure uh but you know he tells a story where he went to a party one time and a woman said to him like uh who are you like

you're somebody right he was like I could have been somebody kind of thing and he definitely like yeah he he runs the show it was very clear for like the whole extended family he's like the patron the padron

and he is very vocally critical about kind of like anybody being lazy or not pulling their weight or whatever and so he kind of uses humor but he's using humor to kind of keep everybody in check and that makes sense he's like policing and what do you think that what you say you said earlier that if people like knew

my dad they they'd understand you better how does that help us understand you i've said i said i've said i've said it for a long time but i don't necessarily know that i thought about why i think it sure why do i think it yeah what does that tell you about what does that tell us about you well i've got his blood in me and also i grew up as you know under his kind of power and authority. And if you see the way that he acts, you'll, you'll sense a tremendous amount of stress and anxiety as well as like a loud kind of personality. What, what does, in what way does he act that makes you feel stress and anxiety? I, he feels a lot of stress and anxiety. Like, I think that all of his external stuff is just dealing with his internal state.

you know, the fact that like his body system is telling him like, like flooding him all the time with like threat signals or whatever. Okay. I feel definitely consistently overwhelmed by like my body telling me that like there's something really wrong. Hmm. I think he does too. What is your body telling you is wrong?

Now? Sure. The world's, the world's in a bad spot. We've got to do something. Okay. There's people suffering. I think it's 60% of people are lonely in America.

So it's like two out of three or something like that. I don't know. Some crazy number. And you feel that in your body? I can, yeah. What does that feel like? Tightness in my chest. Like a kind of burning focus.

It's a sense of like fire and like a, it's like the laser beam, right? It's a strong focused energy in a direction. And it comes with kind of like an impatience. and an anger around why isn't anybody looking at this? I kind of feel that a lot. Yeah. My dad told me his dad was actually a union organizer, so not a union leader or whatever,

but he was the guy who was in the factory saying, like, what are we doing? Yeah. These guys are making all the money and we're getting screwed. Like, what are we doing? And he was so nuts about it that he actually fucking, right, founded a union. Yeah.

Like that kind of feeling. I feel like I've got that in me. you know absolutely you do that's bit the i learned that very late in life by the what what what is it that's bitta yeah yeah i feel like i've got all i've tried dosha that's how i feel but you well you're primarily vata and bitta so i'm sure i mean everyone has some degree of dosha's but if you have a fair amount of color in your face for example and then you know we also see that you know you're you're irritable abrasive driven focused all bithic attributes uh huh um And yeah, so Bobby, I think, yeah, you're right.

You know, when you talk about your dad, I certainly think that that's significant, but I'm still a little bit curious about how he contributed to you becoming the person that you are. He thought I was, he was stressed all the time that I was not going to make it. I remember him walking around just being like, this kid's not going to make him. he's just not going to make it i'm not going to this kid's not going to make it i remember he would say it's not a one-time thing he would say that a lot just kind of like throwing his hands up this kid's not going to make it i can't protect him what is what does that do to you what does that do to a kid something yeah uh especially when i felt deep deep deep down that that was not correct right it's this feeling of there's something down here that he can't see and not

nothing I fucking do will ever change that, right? Yeah. How could it be that there actually is something good here and he can't see it? Like, you know what I mean? How could it be? Like, there must be something so wrong in the rest of me that that's what it feels like, right? Yeah. So what have we been talking about for the past 30 or 40 minutes?

We've been talking about this. Absolutely. Yeah. I've been talking about the sense that like there's something. So a lot of things are clicking, right? So you said that there are a couple things. One is that he can't see it. And all he sees is you fucking up and forgetting your homework.

And he also lets you know whatever it is, like random stuff. Yeah. So that's actually a significant detail because it's not. So if it's just one thing, then you end up with a somscar that you're bad at homework. You're like, oh man, I suck at school or I'm not good at studying. No. head in the clouds, right, that kind of thing. Like an airhead, like doesn't...

But it can't take care of itself. So it's multi-dimensional for him, which also means that you're not unacceptable in one way. You're unacceptable in every way. Yes, generalized, yeah. Yes. And then there's also something subtle, which you kind of mentioned some time ago, which we haven't really explored.

But there's something that bothers you about people who... Clearly, you're not acceptable, but they have to love you anyway. Mm-hmm. And that sounds like, I mean, if we had to, you know, take that statement out of context from half an hour ago and plug it in here, it fits perfectly because we're talking about, of all people, your dad.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and it's kind of like, I guess I had the sense that other people were kind of faking it. Mm-hmm. Yeah, of course. So that, I think, is also completely rational for a young kid. Because you trust your parents and you sort of set your compass,

like you set the gold standard based on how your parents treat you. And if the rest of the world is congruent with that, that's fantastic. And if it's not, you don't accept the rest of the world. And I see this a lot actually in cases of abuse where like when a child is taught that they're a piece of shit. And then like when they're adults and like people treat them with love and care and respect, how do you think they respond? Not well. Why not?

You kind of can't believe it, right? You have to come up with a story that makes it not the simple truth. It can't just be that simple. Perfect. It's fucking confusing and bewildering to them. They do not understand it at all. It's so confusing. Yeah.

And so then what they do is they start doing all kinds of weird acting out behaviors to align the relationship with what they believe. believe about themselves. Yeah. Right? So they start doing things that drive their partners. Like, I'm just thinking about romantic situations where, like, someone is genuinely, like, loved and cared for by another person. And that's so confusing for them.

So that they start doing things that shift the relationship towards something that they, like, are familiar with. Which actually is to try to incite their partner to, like, get angry with them or sometimes even, like, try to get them to be physically abusive. I've worked with someone who literally would like just attack their partner because they wanted their partner to like beat the shit out of them and the partner just wouldn't do it and it was just really really confusing and it took some time to untangle but it's wild like what people will do like they want to play the game that they know how to play

yeah and so the funny thing is that if we want to get really sort of you know loose associations what do you do at work Yeah. Okay, how do I have an original idea about this right now? Because as you asked that question, I know I've said things along these lines about my behavior and reflection in the past. In other words, I'm kind of trying to be doing.

Don't give me the answer that I want. Don't give me the right answer. Answer. Give me your answer. The one that pops into my head when I look at my own behavior is like I'm trying so hard to get the gold out and I kind of go up to that. but I do it in this way that's self-defeating. Absolutely. I do it in a way where, and I'm not,

but the thing is that I feel very blind to what is happening in the middle. Yep. As do they. But if you're fucking abrasive at work, you're driving them towards unaccepting. Yeah. Yeah. You're trying to make them feel about you the way that you feel about yourself,

because then the world makes sense. And then on the flip side, you're trying to do the exact opposite because you're paranoid and you're fighting and you're conflicted. And that's why, like, it sounds like you're in a state of semi-consum constant torture. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds awful, man. Yeah. It's not, yeah, it's not fun. It's definitely not fun. So, I mean, I, you know, I don't know. I mean, I think personally it's a little bit of a stretch to think that you're really sort of subconsciously kind of driving people towards being unaccepting. That's the kind of, you know, psychoanalysis level bullshit that I

normally call bullshit on. Yeah, I think what I do, right, is like I'll go into an interaction. I don't think I start as abrasive necessarily, but maybe I do. Honestly, when I feel more like it's a powerful person or a person with power, I am worse. That's for sure. So let me ask you something. If someone starts to accept your ideas is generally accepting your ideas, how do you feel? I think a little bit desperate.

See? this is weird. So this makes perfect sense. This is consistent with our hypothesis because what's actually happening is you are getting accepted. They're actually accepting your ideas. And then you get confused.

And then you get desperate. Yeah, I think I get desperate. It's like there's a thing here that I want so badly and like I can't let it get away kind of thing. And so what do you do in your interaction? with them. Like dump. Absolutely. Dump. What does that mean? So there's basically, it's like a dam. There's like a dam of all these things that I've wanted to share with people for years and years and years. And so, you know, it's like I feel like no one is ever going to listen sort of thing because of because I suck.

And so if I sense that someone is listening, it's like the dam just blows open and all of, there's so much that I want to say and it's very, very overwhelming and disorganized. And then how do they respond? Like they're overwhelmed and have no idea. And then what does that do to the size of your dam? Well, I think once the good comes out and it runs them over, like if they haven't received it properly, then the angry starts to come out actually. Sure. And then I think the next day what you do is you build your damn higher. Yeah, for the next person. Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Right.

So now we're seeing like, like, this is all kind of tied together because like what happens is when you get a little bit of acceptance. Yeah. You flood them with it. And so then what happens is like you get back to this kind of idea that like you're reinforcing this idea that you're like they're not going to accept what you have. And then you have to build the walls higher. Yeah. And actually, to be honest, it's like it starts from the, in other words, even when I interact with people, it's like I start from the premise that. they're not going to accept me. And maybe if they accept things, it'll be because of my resume and because of the quality of the... So I focus the whole conversation

on these things that I'm not even sure when I'm talking with you, I'm not sure if anybody cares about. Okay, so... It's kind of like I'm preparing a case for why they should... It's like I'm preparing a case. Yeah, I understand.

And I killed somebody, you know, but then on the other hand, look at all these good things. And maybe on the balance, you can get over, you know, this damn because of all this stuff over here. So, Bobby, my, I'm going to try to offer, so first of all, let's just take a step back, because I'd like to offer you something kind of concrete, which I hope will let you move forward

in like a, at least one serious step. Because I'm getting the sense that we're sort of teasing a lot of stuff apart, but I'm getting a growing sense within me of like, what do we do about all of this? Yeah. So first of all, help me understand what we've covered today and what you think, like, where are we? Like, recap for me what you understood from our discussion today. Give me one sec. So I had not said explicitly the part about my dad kind of, my experiences of my dad giving me the sense that there may be something good here, but like no one will ever see it.

And it's like there's so much in the way that's bad. I had never explicitly said that. And I think that that's super core. Aside from that, I think that I'm aware of most of what we discussed. And I think what we're talking about is kind of a double bind where... I put this. And I feel like that's where the sense of what do we do about it comes from. Even in me, because I've worked very, very, very desperately on, you know, this problem.

in that I at the same time believe that I'm good and that I'm completely, I believe that I'm like good and complete at the same time. Yep. And that that causes me to act in super confusing ways. Yep. To myself and to other people. Absolutely. Is that maybe the simplest way to put it?

Beautiful way to put it, right? So, so you're confusion. This is a problem of confusion. This is a problem of someone who is taught that love involves physical abuse and then just gets fucking confused. because there's a part of them that also realizes that they deserve honest and authentic love that involves no abuse. And there's a part of them that also has learned. Go.

When I look for acceptance from my dad, I think that what the case that I want to provide is I'm almost saying, hey, dad, I heard everything that you told me. And I started from the premise that I'm not going to make it. And so I thought about this, which is bad, and here's the answer. I've mitigated this problem with myself. I've mitigated this one with myself and I've mitigated this one. And that's why you should trust me. In other words, I know that I'm bad and I've done all this work to like be acceptable for this one moment. What do you?

What do you think about that? So that sounds like that's a very common pattern in your life, right? Have you done that with you? It's like when you bring up the abuse, which is not my experience, but it's like I want someone to hit me so that then, right? we can kind of get closer. I know that the hit's going to happen. Let's just get it over with. And then we can find our way to a place where, like,

we can be okay with the fact that I got hit. Yeah. Yeah. So what I'm hearing is, let's just, let's just, here's what I'm hearing from you in terms of like, you're the premise that you're unacceptable and damage control. You're saying, okay, why don't you guys just tell me I'm incompetent to begin with

so that I can get to all of the reasons why you guys should still value what I'm doing? 100%. Let's just get the fact that I'm incompetence completely out of the way. Let's get it out of the way. Even if I'm incompetent, I still think you guys should buy this blender for 1999 plus shipping and handling. And if you buy one right now, you're going to get a second one for free. That's exactly right. Right? That's exactly right.

Yeah. In other words, I'm the shittiest user of a blender. I cut all my fingers off. I can blender. Like, you should trust me because I'm an idiot. Yeah. No one understands. incompetent blender customers more than me.

Yeah. So how do we get out of this? Okay, so a couple of thoughts. Okay. So the first is you have to let go of the premise that you're unacceptable. And I realize that's easy to say and hard to do. But the tricky thing here is that when you're letting go, so why is it hard to let go of the premise you're unacceptable? Because it opens you up to understand.

uncertainty and potential failure. So in a weird way, you've got a game plan that involves Bobby being unacceptable. Yeah. And so the problem, I think what's really difficult is that you sort of built a party around, you know, let's say like you're playing like an RPG and you like build a party that's like all mages. And then like you built this party and then you've come up with the strategy to like still win with all mages, even though all mages is like, like generally speaking a terrible party, but also my favorite kind of party to play. And so I come up with these like super convoluted strategies of like, you know, spamming consumables and buying scrolls and stuff early on in the game until my mages actually

come online and then I fucking start tearing things apart. Because you can just CC and like AOE the shit out of anything that comes your way. And this is why you're successful. Because you came up with this sort of like premise that's messed up. But then you also have a lot of faith. and when your strategy comes online. Yeah. And that's the bullet points, right?

Because you're like, let's call me acceptable and let's move to the bullet points because the bullet points, like, that's when my pages may just come online. And like, it doesn't matter that it doesn't matter that we can't use swords or armor or we have no healers. You guys think that this is busted because you think that you need a tank and you think you need a healer. But I can show you without all this stuff with my all-mage strategy, you can still do it. Yeah. So the really tricky thing here is that if you abandon your premise, you also abandon your solution and you abandon your possibility for success. You're re-entering a zone of uncertainty that could lead to failure once again. So I think that's part of the reason you attach yourself to this premise, because at the end of the day, this strategy, Bobby, has worked for you.

Yeah. So I want to ask, does it make a difference where, like you said, I can show you that this works? And it's true I can show you, but not if you don't look. And I've got this other thing about like, you'll never let me show you kind of thing. Sure. Does that change your analysis at all in terms of how I should think about it? Not really, because I think it's just, it's just part of the, you know, it's part of the complex. It's part of the mechanism.

So you have a sum scar, but then you also have these other like coping mechanisms that you've created in your mind to account for that. And I think that like to unravel. So the really tricky thing. So, you know, when I, I'm just trying to think about this. So one of my supervisors once told me that growing up is the process of abandoning what works. Yeah. And that kind of struck me and I was kind of confused about that. And then, you know, the more that I thought about it, it's sort of like, well, I mean, when you're two and you throw a temper tantrum, like you can kind of get away with that.

But as you get older, there are things that you used to do that you have to give up. And like later in life, so for example, when I talk about medical students, so medical students are very, very grades oriented. And that's worked very well for them because they're at the top of their class in high school, top of their class in college, honors students, did excellent, like, you know, have 3.9 GPAs and did really well on standardized tests. And they come to med school and they hit the hospital. And then suddenly it's not about tests anymore. And so they've always tried to be the best. and so that they ask you over and over again, how am I doing?

And we say, you're doing fine, you're doing great. Good job. Good job, kid. Good job. And then when grades come around, what grade do you think they get? I mean, I've had this experience. Not a good one. So they get an average grade, which is, in their mind, not a good one.

And then they get really fucking confused because they're like, you said I did a great job every day. And I just got an average grade. And then we say, well, yeah, that's because you're average, because we're comparing you with other medd students who are also showing up every day and working really hard. and you're now average. And it kind of just blows their mind.

So some kids get honors. Okay? And so then the, I mean, the try hard, but they're all tryhards. They get really confused and they're like, you said I did a great job. Yeah. I asked you what I need to do. They don't say it like this because they're too terrified of you. Like, I've spent my whole life with the professor telling me, you need to study this, this, this and this.

And you will get an A on a test. and I came here and I asked you, what do you want me to do? You laid out my responsibilities. I've fulfilled every one of those responsibilities. Why don't I get an A? And so what we have to do is teach them to abandon what works. And so what I try to explain to the med students is that like it doesn't matter like whether, like I'm not the standard that you should be judging yourself by. Right.

You're nodding. So it looks like you understood something. What are you about what are you thinking? So I think I'm the person who asked that question directly. And if I don't get the answer that you're giving me, I get very angry. Yep. In other words, I feel it's acceptable to give this person an average grade when you've, you know, but then the next thing that you need to say is, okay, the way to get a better grade than average is to abandon what's worked.

Like you need to cult. And that's real growth. You know, that's real leadership. And I respect that. That's a good answer. So if I get some dumb ass answer like, well, blah, blah, blah. I get very upset. Yeah.

So a lot of times the med students get upset. Thankfully, I've had some years to practice this. And so what I tell them is like, you should be not thinking about what I want is your supervising physician. You should be thinking about your patient's needs. Yeah, for sure. And the kids who get honors are the ones that actually don't, and it's not that they don't care about what I want.

They do everything. But their focus is not on the grade. Their focus is on the patient. Yeah. That's my strength is that my focus is generally on the people who need and that I serve them. But then when it comes to my relationship with the professor, like, it's contentious. It's contentious. And I don't make it easy for the professor. I, okay, that I need to sit and think about that. So the point here is that, like, Bobby, I think you've got a winning strategy. And just

like all of the med students who have a winning strategy that gets into that point, what I try to impress upon the med students is you're no longer studying for a grade. Like, I don't think you guys get this. one day you're going to be, it's funny, I told this story yesterday, one day you're going to be on an airplane and someone is going to ring a button, like a call bell, or not sorry, you're going to hear an announcement where the air host or the air hostess is going to say, is there a doctor on the plane? And then you're going to be terrified. It's happened to me. It's the most terrifying experience in the world. Scariest thing that's ever happened to me. And then you wait and you cross your fingers because you hold.

that there's someone else. Right? You hope that someone else does it. No one does. And they say it again. And then you're like, well, fuck,

I got to do this because this is what I trained for. And you hit the call bell. And then they go over and, you know, they call you over. And then you go and then like, like there's a pregnant lady

who's like, has bad stomach cramps. And then the pilot asks you this question, which is, should we land the plane immediately? That's what you need to be studying for. and that's what you should think about every day when you come to the hospital. Understand it's not about pleasing me.

It's not about knowing the names of your medications. It's that like one day someone is going to need your help. And are you prepared for that moment? Because it's fucking terrifying. Yeah. Is she having indigestion or is she having a placental rupture where not only is she losing the baby, but she's going to die within 60 minutes from internal bleeding? Or did she eat too much dairy?

And in that moment, you can't say, I mean, my personal fear is I can't say I'm a fucking psychiatrist. I don't know real medicine. Yeah. Right? So that's what I'm scared of. And so somewhere along the way the med students get that it's no longer about the grade and you're actually becoming a doctor and that people's lives are going to depend on you, even if you're a psychiatrist who spends this time talking to people on Twitch. If I'm on a subway or if I'm on an airplane, like I can't say, I'm sorry, I'm supposed. spend most of my time on Twitch, I can't help you.

Unacceptable. So they have to abandon what works. And what you have to do is abandon what works, and it's going to be terrifying. You have to let go... What works in my case. So you have to let go of your list. You have to let go of your list, and you have to let go of your unacceptability. Yeah.

So if I let go of the unacceptability, then the list goes to. Beautiful. Right? But there's a lot of comfort in that whole package for you. because that's what's worked. So you have to let yourself potentially fail. And what I mean by potentially fail is you have to give other people their agency back, which you take away from them.

Yeah. Right? You have to let them. Yeah. Right? So you have to let them be okay with your idea not being okay. That I don't think you can do. So that's something you need to work on, right?

So in the, so this is, I'm going to go back to kind of the abusive person. So the most terrifying thing for that person is actually like accepting the possibility that this person genuinely loves them. Because if this person treats them abusively and then five years ago from now they leave, the person in the abusive relationship is actually okay with that because they always knew it was going to happen. This is a game I've played before. I can deal with abandonment. I know how to do it. And as long as you hold on to the possibility, as long as you hold on to the possibility, as long as you hold on to that idea that I'm not worth

loving, it's easy to deal with abandonment. What's terrifying is actually like accepting someone's love and believing that you're not worth abandoning, not like carrying those, you know, putting those walls up, and then the possibility of

abandonment. People do not want to do that. They say, I can't take it. If I presume that I'm going to fail at the beginning, I can take a failure. But if I let myself hope and believe that I can be loved and that I can be successful, and then I fail, uh-uh, can't do it. It's going to destroy me.

I'm not that strong. So there's something very protective about all of this stuff for you. Yeah. Right? It's the same reason why half of our audience doesn't give it their all when they study for a test. Yeah. Because if you study for a test and you studied as hard as you could and you get a B, you're fucking dumb. But if you're lazy, you get to hold on to being smart because I didn't give it my all.

Yeah. Giving it your all is the most terrifying thing in the world because then if you fall up short, you're short and there's no excuse. Yeah. So I think you've got to give it your all and I think you've got to let go of control. Couple of other things to remember. One is that I want you to recognize that this sumscar exists within you, right? So it's not correct. It's not wrong.

It's just a piece. Yeah. It's like if you're developing a strategy for smash, Like, you know, you can, there are different characters that have different strategies. It's not like one is the dominant truth. It's just there are different ways to play the game. So in your case, you have a four or five-year-old that sometimes thinks this, all this unacceptability stuff like that.

And it's going to dictate, it's going to want to dictate your actions. As best as you can, as you see that, just notice that it wants to dictate your actions. But that it doesn't, you don't have to let that dictate your actions. Just see it within you. It doesn't mean it's wrong. right so like you're in a double bind because you've got one horse that's pulling you this way and one horse that's pulling you this way put the horses together there's still individual horses they're not different but you can move in one direction even though one of them is like like you know you can have that four year old within you and acknowledge that that person is there and still move forward and still speak and still recognize that I don't have to convince people I'm going to actually just I'm going to choose to let go of the unacceptability and also the absolute cheat code God mode of my logic. I'm going to let go of them both.

I'm going to share my ideas and then I'm going to let people like because I know that like there's a part of me that doesn't want to just share my idea. You guys, you guys have to listen to all of it. Don't just listen to part of it. Don't judge me halfway. Like I like actually and I love watching your stream because you approach this so differently. You start with your idea. And you, if I were you, my show.

stream would have been two months of me saying like, okay, I've thought about this. I could have been wrong in this. In other words, I never would have shared my ideas because I would have just shared this extensive case about like why you should listen to me, even though you probably, do you know what I mean? No. Like when you, imagine if you started your stream and you're like, hey, I know that you guys don't spirituality. Let me like, do you know, and you kind of defended this angle. You're just totally obsessed with why people shouldn't believe you and you're just attacking these beliefs that you believe could be out there. And then after all that, then you share your ideas. Yeah. So, so, so I mean, I, it's like such a shit way to talk. Absolutely. So like the reason that I

people don't, I don't, because it doesn't work, right? So like, like, this doesn't work. I can tell you. So Bobby, like, let me tell you right. What I think I do with you right. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I think what so like I don't, I don't, I don't know that I'm going to help you. I don't know that what you're going to say is going to be acceptable to you. I just, I have no idea. Right. So what I have is a sense. of faith in who I am, but I don't have the winning strategy. And not to draw too much

of a comparison between the two of us, but I think that's the only thing that worked because I've tried it your way and doesn't fucking work. It doesn't. It is that you be the person that you are and you let your compass of trying to help these gamers on Twitch

and 60% of people are lonely. And you go to those people, you go to your colleagues at Twitch and you say, hey, I have this idea, I'd love to share it with you guys. And you don't try to convince them. You let them, you, you know, it's the cake that's in the display case.

You're not the person who's giving out samples. You're just going to make your cake. You're going to stick it in the display case, and you're going to let them choose. And if they want it, they're going to have it. You're not the person who's like, hey, would you like to try it? Hey, hey, hey, try this.

Oh, put a little smear of this on this. Why don't you dip it in here? Like, you know, like, just take a step back and give what you have to give and let the world receive it. And recognize that there's the four-year-old, the five-year-old, who's going to be terrified about that.

There's all the whole gold nugget and shit. Like what you need to do is give them a shit cake with a gold nugget on top. Just give it all to them. Don't try to just give them the gold and don't try to hold back the shit. Just give it all to them. Because they see it all anyway. I know it's terrifying. But I think that there's like you're just not, you're not that manipulative to where you can really hide that much, Bobby.

You're not very manipulative. So you're like low on the sociopathy scale. Like, you're a kind of strategy of filtering information and stuff like that works. You just have to be way more sociopathic for that to be a successful strategy for you. The last thing that I'll leave you with is we've got to talk about your mom. Okay. So another thing, and I don't know that we have to do this today, but one of my supervisors once told me it's the parent that they don't talk. So one parent's the smoking gun.

And then there's another parent that they don't talk about. And the money is with the parent that they don't talk about. There's plenty with, yeah, there's plenty there. Okay. It flipped, though. I will tell you it flipped. If I was 18, I would only talk about my mom. Sure.

Not talked about my dad. Right? So there's a lot about acceptability and who you became to be. And I'm sorry that, you know, it sounds like there were many experiences where you really did just try to be yourself and the world punished you for it. Yeah. And I think you just need to recognize that like that happened to you. And just because the world has punished you in the past, I mean, there are overwhelming numbers of people who have accepted you for who you are. are.

And yet this sumscar has not been processed because like it's not, some scars can't fight against each other like that. Like you, you were beloved in the smash community. You know, it's clear that, you know, my Twitch chat likes you. I like you. You're married. Yeah. Your wife likes you presumably.

You have a three year old. He's kind of a fan. He likes me a lot. Yeah. He thinks I'm cool. Yeah. Do you feel unacceptable with him? Dude, sometimes.

Yeah. So notice. that right and understand that's that's that's last week for sure i've noticed it more because that was the practice you gave me yeah i do notice it more so but that's not coming from him it's coming from you a hundred percent right so that the thing that i the thing that was said to me yesterday that i think really helped uh was that it's like i at a certain point when i was very young i chose to have me be the me that my dad saw or that somebody else saw and like i had to re-remember who the the me was that made that decision.

Because that me is the one that's, you know, does that kind of make sense? It makes sense. So I'll put it to you another way. So I think what, so some scars and the things that you cope around them are learned behaviors. Yeah. So like I think about anxiety.

I mean, not all, like sometimes it's, you know, true biological anxiety that wasn't learned. But for a lot of people, especially the kind of anxiety that I see a lot now, it's like a learned anxiety. It's just your brain literally trying to cope or adapt. a certain set of circumstances. And I don't know, I mean, I think you made a choice. I don't know if I would call it a choice, but I definitely think that you, I mean, yeah,

you can call it a choice. I think it was sort of a subconscious choice, maybe is a good way to put it. But I think you learned to accept your dad's premise about who you are in the same way that the person who gets into an abusive relationship who has abusive parents learn to accept their opinions, like their parents' opinions of who they are. And so I completely agree And that's why we got to go back to like where this started, right? And I think sure, maybe it was the four year old

I think these subscar has been kind of added on to Those are all pieces that are strengthening it Yeah But there's just this general idea that like You know you're not acceptable number one And secondly that There's something about people that are that you love and respect Being forced to associate with you

Despite your smell Yeah Good way to put it. And just notice those things. And I'd say like, you know, Bobby, I think you've got a unfortunately long road ahead of you, but I think, you know, I have faith that you're going to do well. Not because you have a winning strategy, but because I think you're going to continue to try. I'm definitely going to continue to try. Yeah.

Thoughts or questions? Do you have any? I would like to meditate again and have a practice. I kind of did some chanting. but I only kind of do it at home, like when you can hear me. I think that feels really good. Like letting it out as opposed to forcing it is a big difference. Yep.

Yeah. Give me a second. And then I also feel like, yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. I was just going to say I also, you know, when I've kind of done sort of parts of myself, I kind of thought about what's going on in my experience, I think I actually have like a pretty strong third eye experience when I am understanding something.

But the practice of pointing my finger, I never connected the dots between those two places, I guess. And I wonder if there's something there that I could... Let me just think for a second. Okay, let me just think for a second. I'm going to just take a quick ad break because I've been told to do that one. And then I just need to think. And then we'll teach meditation when I get... And I need to blow my nose and stuff. So I'm going to just run to the restroom. Let's talk about meditation when I get back. Okay. Okay. Ad is still there? Okay. Let me think. No ads? Chat, should we do something new or something old?

Should we do the same one again? So how do we teach you a meditation about acceptability? Let me think. Do you want something that's a little bit more focused or more contemplative? Contemplative is my go-to strategy, so maybe that's not... Like, I'm good at it, but on the other hand, I use it to deal with my, as a coping strategy, not as a. Yeah. So, I mean, I'm not, I think sometimes when it comes to meditation, the goal is for you to have a practice that's easy, kind of easy for you to do.

So we can try to do something contemplative. I'm just trying to figure out. To be honest, I think that, so I think that if I could, um, so there's a place when I was learning how to, how to wave dash, it's like an advanced tech and Super Smash Brothers. where if you're trying to learn something in a video game, you kind of just go into it being like, okay, I'm going to beat this level. I'm going to learn how to do this. And it doesn't matter if it takes a week or a month or a year.

You're just going to kind of do it. And you kind of, it's like an inner faith or something that you're just going to keep trying and it's, it's okay to mess up. And I really love that part of video games. And I'm wondering, like, if there's a way to kind of, like, just recommit to, being me and not worry about the consequences of being me.

That was the thing that you said last time that really stuck with me. I think I live in the consequences of being me. And so I'm trying to refocus, like, where my mind is to not five seconds after whatever I'm thinking about saying. But just where I, does that make sense? Yeah. Okay. That's helpful.

So I think that we're going to do something that maybe is a little bit different. But let me just think about how to structure this. How can I, how do you feel about. breath-oriented meditations. My breathing sucks, so I feel really good about it. What does that? I breathe very shallowly. I find it very difficult to breathe deeply.

I find that I kind of feel like I, like, I don't know if it's gas or whatever, but something will build up when I'm trying to breathe deeply that kind of gets in the way. Then I kind of feel like I have to burp or something, which also doesn't work. I don't know if that's super weird, but... Okay. First thing that I want you to do is sit up straight and close your eyes. Let me get a pillow. Sure.

Hips above knees. Yep, very good. Okay. So I'm going to teach you a technique around the double bind, okay? Mm-hmm. So I want you to notice... Do you have a tennis ball by chance or something that's tennis ball shape? Can you go grab it?

I can. So if you guys have a tennis ball, go grab one. If you don't have a tennis ball, we're going to try to use your fist, okay? So, Bobby, I want you to close your eyes and breathe in and out through your nose. And tell me first if you can discern whether one nostril is more open than the other. I think my right. Okay, so go ahead and block your left nostril and breathe in through your right. it doesn't

anything or it doesn't matter yeah so just block one nostril and breathe in and then after one breath switch and then check the other nostril full breath? Yeah just confirm whether you're left gang

or right gang maybe left I don't know kind of in the middle I think left's more clear okay so then what I want you to do is to take the tennis ball and stick it under your left

armpit kind of up into the armpit like push it up yep you kind of feel it pressing into your like up in there okay kind of make it almost a little bit uncomfortable like pressure yeah it's a little i feel a little bit of like in the back kind of okay so so like almost like imagine if you were like leaning with your armpit over a railing okay good so close your eyes now observe your breath and with each breath notice notice which nostril is more open, and then try to catch the transition. So you can put your fist into your armpit if you want.

The other thing that you can do is lay down on the, if you guys are watching it home. It switched. It switched. Do you catch it? I think it did. So if it's switched, then move the tennis ball. Other armpit. Can I confirm it?

Yeah. Switch the tennis ball. Now catch it this time. So the other thing that you all can do Because the fist can be a little bit awkward Is that you can lay down On the side of your open nostril So if your left nostril is open

Lay down on your left And if your right nostril is open Lay down on your right It switched again Are you catching it? I think it was between two breaths Like it was the exhale So I'm trying to focus

At the it kind of the back or top of your nose Because that's where you may feel the switch. And you're going to get one breath in there with both nostrils open. Maybe a couple. I feel like it's switching really fast. It starts on the, yeah, it's switching super fucking fast. Okay. So now we have your problem, right? So I think this is, so you got it, so you could stop for a second, Bobby. So what I'm going to do, let's try to do it slightly differently. Which one's open now? Left. Okay. So I want you to, your couch in the back. I want you to lay down on your left side.

Okay. And just kind of... Just lay down on your left. Nope. Just lay down on your left side. Yeah, it's very strange that his is switching correctly. So I think this is the right technique for him. I won't be able to hear you.

Okay. So lay down on whichever side is open and then watch it switch and then come back after it switches. All right. And try to catch yourself in the middle of the switch. Yeah, it's very. strange. It normally does not switch that fast. Yeah, he can relax. Oh, fuck. How do I tell him to put a pillow under his head? Because he looks fucking awkward. Jesus, that looks uncomfortable. He looks so stiff. Poor Bobby. He tries so hard. Okay. I think I caught it, dude. Okay, so it was quick.

Okay, good. So first of all, you know, you can lay down in a more relaxed fashion. You don't have to like keep your head or like, Like, you could have, like, gotten on a pillow just comfortable. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, first of all, it's very unusual that your, your, your, noughties are switching so rapidly. Like, usually it takes, like, at least, like, 30, 60 seconds. So, but this also is cool because I think this is the right technique for you.

So, Bobby, we've been talking about the double bind. What you need to learn how to do is to live in between two things. To live in the tension as opposed to being pulled on, the two sides. So there's a tension within you. And I think it's clear to me that like you need to live in the space of that transition. So there's going to be one breath in there where either inhalation or exhalation, things are going to be even and balanced before you switch over. So just spend time in the middle of those two things. And what you can you can also do is like you don't, I mean, this is weird. I've never had someone who switches so quickly. So I don't know that

you need to... I've got a theory about this, by the way. Go ahead. I think that I learned very young not to trust myself, so my left and right hemispheric brains don't trust each other. So there's just a bunch of like... I don't know if that makes any sense, but I just like, as I think through things,

I noticed that I switch from like, what is the meaning and how does this make sense holistically to, well, none of the facts support this. And it's like they're kind of disagreeing and they're fighting all the time. Right. So you need to find your corpus callosum, which is the thing that connects your two. hemispheres, right? So you need to find, you need to live in the in-between spaces.

A battleground. That's, so, so it shouldn't, it shouldn't be a battleground, right? So I, what I want you to understand, so like, imagine that I have two, you know, if I take like two boards and I lean them against each other, those two boards are opposing each other, and you could argue that that's a battleground, right? Because one of them wants to fall this way, the other one wants to fall this away. When I set them up, there's actually like, there's no conflict. There's just the tendency of one board

and the tendency of the other board are creating conflict and opposition, but in between them, there's actually peace and balance. And you need to start learning how to live in that space, and I think this is a technique that's going to help you with that. Just like you said,

if your two hemispheres don't touch each other, fantastic. So start to live in the in-between spaces. Do you have any idea what that feels like? Could you kind of maybe say a word or two about what it might feel like to live in the tension? Yes, I can, but I'm not going to. So part of this is tricky because I'm trying to teach you sort of a middle technique without the beginning and without the end. So this is sort of the preparatory technique.

The main thing, though, is that the other thing you can do is you don't necessarily have to use the tennis ball if you're switching very rapidly. you can just observe your breath and catch the switch naturally. Okay. So I don't think that you should have it ping ponging back and forth so rapidly. So if you want to, you know, have it breathe for a couple minutes and then you want to force a switch, you can. Breathe for a couple minutes and then you want to force a switch. But see if you can catch the natural transition. And when that transition happens, just fully implant yourself in that space with one breath that is both right.

nostril and left nostril. And then you tell me how it feels to live in the in-between. Okay? Thoughts, questions. That feels good. Thanks so much for everything that you're doing, man. Yeah, man, it's been a pleasure. Thanks for coming on a couple times and also, you know, rescheduling so rapidly.

For sure. Any thoughts on who we should raid? I was thinking I would stream, so I mean, if you want to... Yeah, we can just raid you. Let's raid Bobby. Are you streaming? I'm about to. I wasn't because the camera won't let me,

it wouldn't let me, you know, you couldn't see me. Go to Bobby. I was streaming. Okay. Which underscores Scar. All right.

Thanks a lot, Bobby. We'll raid you in a few minutes. Take care. Yeah. You too. Oh, wow. Thank you, Mash Stars, for the, how many is that?

Holy. 100 gift bomb. Thank you very much. For the, you know, gigantic pile of subs. Okay, so for a couple of things to make things, so, you know, sometimes I struggle on stream because I'm not sure like what to teach, because some stuff is very applicable to the person and I think less applicable to

Twitter chat. Dodged what? I'm confused. Why does people say dodged? Oh, they dodge the subs. Thanks for the 100 gifted subs, really, MASH stars. We really appreciate it. So that'll go to, you know, it'll go to fun something or other.

So I'm sorry if that, you know, that meditation practice was like odd for you guys because it's very strange that Bobby's like switching so rapidly. But if you guys are, if you're struggling in some way and you feel like you're in a double bind, that practice could be good for you too. So this practice is part of something called swara sadhana. Swara means breath or sound. And yoga is sort of a particular set of practices. that are sort of designed to get you to enlightenment purely through the breath. And it's different from vipashina because Swardasadhana isn't really about doing things with your breath, which is more brown I am.

It's about observing nuances of the breath. So I'll give you guys kind of another practice. So if you close your eyes and you pay attention to your breath, you'll feel the flow of air through your nostrils, right? And now I want you to figure out which of your nostrils is dominant. So one of your nostrils is going to be more open than the other. Left gang or right gang? Okay.

So now what I want you guys to do, if you all ready for the next level, this is going to be hard. Left gang, right gang. So if you guys have some practice with this. Now I want you to notice the direction of the breath. Okay. Within your nose. So what I mean by that is, so if you think about your nose, like this, right? So here's your right nostril. Here's your left nostril. Dr. K. Okay. So you can feel,

ooh, let's use like a brush or something. Yeah. So you can feel the breath around here, or you can feel it here, or you can feel it here. There's going to be a dominant place where your breath is coming out of your nostril. It's going to be equal both sides. very rarely. Does this make sense to anyone? There's going to be one area like it could be here or here where you're going to feel the breath more. There are five distinct zones. So what you guys want to do is as you breathe, just notice which zone you're in. Right? So this is tricky because like, so sorry as Ha'an is hard. It's like a more subtle practice and it's like really not for everyone which is fine. Doesn't mean you're bad at meditation. The whole point.

of teaching different meditation techniques is because like some people know what charging the laser beam feels like and other people are like I have no idea what that is and other people you do left gang right gang and they're like yeah that makes perfect sense how do you guys not understand this so what you guys want to do is just pay attention to the different zones of your nose and just focus on that and try to feel what they are so what I'll ask you guys is that I'll tell you that there are a certain number of zones in each nostril so you guys tell me what are are the zones of each nostril. So I'll say, let's say five, okay? So there are five directions that your breath can go within each nostril and, and try to just see, try to find all five in each nostril. And that's your meditation practice, right? So it's not so important what it is right now, but as you, so what I want you guys to do is, um, is understand. So try to catch all five of them. the zones are what you need to figure that out. I'm not going to tell you what they are.

And if you guys don't know what I'm talking about, that's actually completely fine. Right? So for those of you who think your five head like digital donger, that's just four directions, buddy. Where's the fifth?

And do this practice, do it throughout the day because you're not going to, like, does this make sense? Like if one zone is active, that's the zone that's going to be active right now. You can continue watching the breath, but it's going to be the same part that's going to be active.

and so practice it for a while. So listen, guys, I just want to thank you guys again for all of the support and for all the subs and things like that. You know, our...