HealthyGamerGG - "Can I be Fully Healed?" from C-PTSD

Episode Date: June 3, 2020

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And so what's your name, friend? William. William. Welcome William. Thank you. And I understand where you had asked a question on our AMA stream. Is that right? Yeah. And what was your question? Well, I have a lot of different questions, though, but one of the ones are the one you have in the title.

So can someone actually be fully healed? Okay. And what did I say back then? I don't remember I was drunk. I didn't I didn't ask that question. I asked, um, yeah,

I asked about more, it's kind of the same. It's, like I thought I had gotten better. It's a little bit what you talked in the Recful stream where you know, where you, um, think you get better.

But after a while, it hits you again, basically. Um, and, and that's where I am at, basically. Yeah, I thought I dealt with my things, but it turned back again and stuff like that.

Okay. So, so when you, when you say it turns back or like, so it sounds like you made progress and then you start to slip back? Yeah, I thought I thought I was done with it, like completely. Okay. Which my psychologist also thought. But then like after two months, it came back again. And it was. so clear because, um, so what I could do before was I could actually listen to my emotion, like, why am I feeling, oh, okay, I'm getting these kind of, um, flashbacks or things like that. But this time, it was more like a constant noise, uh, or noise, constant feeling how I felt that dragged me down. Um, and I couldn't really listen to a specific thing if it makes any sense. Like, it, it was lasting for long periods. Let's just take a step back, William. So first, I

want to ask you for a definition. So when you say, can someone be fully healed? Right. So let's start with your perception. When you're asking that question, what do you think fully healed looks like? To me, it is more like you can take it really without it affecting you. Okay. And we'll get to what it is in a second. Okay, without it affecting you. Okay. Yeah. Maybe that's it. I don't know what else.

Okay. Yeah. So then tell me, can you tell me a little bit about what you've struggled with and then, you know, tell us what you struggled with, what got better, and then how you slipped back. Okay. So I have, yeah, a very narcissistic parent. Okay. So. Can you tell us what that means?

Um, I mean, there's a lot to tell, but she, it was just, the world was evolving just around her, basically. She treated all only for her own benefits. I mean, so, I mean, the reason why she even got us kids born was for her to be able to stay in the country as well. she didn't really want to raise kids. Help me understand how you know that. Well, she directly said it to me when I confronted. Because I've always, yeah, there's been a lot of questions. I've always tried to fit the puzzle pieces together with all the information I got them from, you know.

Can you tell us what the puzzle pieces look like? well there's so much to say but I wondered how a person can behave like they can like how can a person be or how did that person become who that person is like how is it possible so for instance my grandma took care of me when I was younger um the case yeah because my mom wasn't there and my grandma was really really nice person um so I didn't understand really why my mom out the way she turned out to be. So, Will. It doesn't really make sense for me.

If it's okay with you, here's what I'm envisioning. I'm envisioning that there are people in our audience right now who may have a narcissistic parent and don't realize that that parent is narcissistic. Okay. So what I'd love for you to do if you feel comfortable with it is to tell us, like give us an example of something that your mom did or a couple of the puzzle pieces. When you were asking, how did she end up this way? like what did you see that made you start to ask her,

did you ever want kids? Right? Because that like, well, yeah. So, I mean, ever since I was born or as far as I remember, she told me that she hated me and that I just take space in the world and that I'm a total useless piece of shit. And she always put me into really high demands, like told me really high things or.

Okay, yeah, like, she minified me extremely much. Like, I wouldn't pass, like, middle school. And when I passed middle school, she told me I wouldn't pass high school. And when I passed high school, she would tell me, you know, nothing really pleased her. And she would just, yeah, minify me always, like, by these tasks. Like, and I don't know, there's so much, like, I could never walk beside her. I was actually always walking behind her when we were out walking in town or things like that. She had posters of herself and she in the house, which I actually, yeah, I didn't think that much until my friends pointed it out.

But also, she always claimed like the biggest room. I'm being very analytical here because I'm a very analytical person. I see that. Yeah, she always claimed the biggest room. When I compared to my friends, when I was over at their places and stuff like that, they would sacrifice it for their kids. So they would take the smallest room and give the biggest room to their parents, to their kids. But my mom, which was like basically never at home, took the biggest room.

She, when we wanted things or things like that, if it did not give her for any benefit, if it was just, yeah, let's say computer or computer game, she would not really spend money for that. But if it was more for her own benefit and status, she would help out, like, you know, maybe getting into better school or stuff like that, she would step up and do it. So she could brag more with her friends about how amazing her kids were. So for instance, when I met her friends, and they asked me like, oh, who's this little guy?

It's very seldom that I even could present myself. It would usually be my mom speaking for me, and it would be so little. So it could be, oh, yeah, that's my youngest son. He's eight years old or so. And then she just goes immediately to my brother, which, you know, he's an A student. He's actually a doctor as well. My condolences. But yeah, so it was always drifting towards that immediately.

Even when people asked me, she would just convert it directly to my brother and be like, oh, but his brother is a doctor, blah, blah, blah, and his dude, you know, he's awesome, blah, blah, blah and stuff like that. So what is there as a narcissistic parent? That's great. Thank you so much. I mean, it's not great. It's terrible. You've had to do that.

But that's exact. Because I think that, you know, when you say those kinds of things, I think it helps people understand, like, that terminology. And I think it's good that it sounds like you've been working with psychologists. So it's clear to me that you're analytical, you know what you're talking about. You're pretty familiar with this stuff. If there's something else I could add on it as well that maybe clarifies it, is they, I don't know. Like, I guess it's a little bit connected with, like, sociopath as well. They're very good at playing with people's emotion just for their own benefit.

What do you mean by that? So my mother played a lot of the victim card. She was like, oh, I'm, yeah, I don't know how much to go into details, but basically she was like, oh, yeah, it's poor me. I'm single mom raising YouTube kids, but literally it was her choice doing it, and she's done a lot of really, really crazy things behind the scenes. I'm probably not going to go into it here, I think. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. But yeah. Yeah, I'm glad you feel comfortable sort of saying, yeah, I'm not going to, I don't feel comfortable talking about that. That's very important. I am quite comfortable talking with it. I just, yeah.

I think it doesn't fit so much. I don't know. Like, it's a little bit more, yeah, I'll just stop myself there. Okay, sure. Yeah. So, Will, just one point about that. I want you to feel very comfortable not talking about something that you don't want to talk about. Yeah.

But generally speaking, if your thought is that it's not relevant, then I would question that because I think the whole point of these conversations is that when people give me raw data instead of their analysis, I tend to be able to help them more because if I get your analysis, I'm dealing with your biases and I can't form my own picture.

So I'm not trying to pressure you into saying it. I want to be very clear about that. And we don't have to talk about it now. My point is that... Well, I can talk about why I'm restricting myself a little bit. Let me just change battery on my headset just a one second here. Okay, can I hear you?

Yeah, I hope so Perfect. Okay, it's Because of the Well, work-related, I have probation And that's why I'm thinking Okay, let's just steer clear. Let's not even take a chance. Can you tell me about your older brother? You have one sibling? Yeah, just one sibling. Yeah, can you tell me about him?

Well, he's a doctor. Okay. Five years older than me. Okay. Probably the kindest brother I could ever wish for. Really? But yes, but I think he never, ever really understood how I felt. I thought he did at one point when he called me one time and said, dude. Oh, so what was happening was I moved out and what happened was my mom started projecting it towards my brother,

which has never ever happened before. I was always the one taking it. um uh yeah all the shits that she had to project or so uh which i guess because i'm smaller and it's easier and she portrayed me as the bad person because i never lived up to her demands and stuff like that um but um yeah so when i moved out he was calling me and he was like shit dude i'm sorry I didn't know it was this much. Like, I've been just experiencing this for two, three days, and I can't imagine you've been living this through your entire life.

Yeah. How does it feel to say that, Will? What are you feeling right now? I felt that he understood at that point. What do you feel now? I don't know. Like, as you say those words. Yeah, I can still, I can still, uh,

I can still feel how I felt back then. And what is that feeling? Tell us about that. Oh, why am I here? What do you mean? It's like, what am I doing here? Why am I here? Why am I existing even?

Like, yeah. So when your brother called you and told you, that I can't believe you've been dealing with this your entire life. I've just been dealing it with two or three days. The way that you felt was why am I here? No, no. Oh, oh, you mean at that point. Sorry, sorry. I thought you meant what the feelings of those feelings were.

Sorry. Yeah, what that feeling was, I felt like, oh, shit, finally my brother understands me. Okay. Because I don't know. Yeah, you can stop me also at whenever you. you want because I don't know. T's and stuff. But first time, I mean, I had suicidal thoughts

already when I was like around eight. And I was really, really considering like yeah, I don't know. I shouldn't. Yeah. I should have been dead, I guess, when I was like 12. What I mean by that? The day after. You should have been dead when you were 12. Well, like, yeah, I tried to jump off a clip. But in the end, I got flashbacks from my

grandmother, which is the one and the main reason why I'm still alive, I guess, but I somehow managed to lunge myself back to safety again. But I was literally outside the cliff. And I talked to my brother the day after. I was like, yeah, I was supposed to be dead yesterday and stuff like that. What did he say? So I don't remember really too much because it's like, because I talked a lot with my brother about the past and stuff like that as well. And we both have like kind of no memories of her childhood, like till we're 15 or something like that. But from what I think and from what I do believe and I remember is that, yeah, he was like, oh, oh, shit. Because he hasn't been really that good with talking with emotions.

Sure. And I don't know how much he actually remembers because I told him like a year ago, I was like, dude, I'm feeling so bad. I'm really at a bad point. And he was like, oh, it's just D vitamin. So it's, I don't know if it's some doctor thing or if it's, yeah, I don't know. But yeah. So can I ask you, do you, so can you tell us a little bit about like pulling yourself back from the cliff? Why did you do that?

I got flashbacks from my grandmother that she would be crying so much and it would be very egoistic to do it. actually it was just a flashback of my grandmother crying see and I managed to somehow launch myself back to safety do you regret not jumping I don't know good answer I'm glad you didn't jump yeah but I think it's okay to not know right whether you made the right choice there or not Is your grandmother still alive? She is. What's your, how's she doing? Pretty bad right now, which has also been a very major point on how it's affected me.

How long has she been pretty bad? Well, I got to know the reason why she couldn't take care of me anymore when I was eight years old onwards. She wasn't an accident. And after that, she just got bad. all the way. What was bad? I mean? It never, she,

she had problem walking and stuff like that. And, um, it just got worse and worse. And, um, yeah. And I,

I got, after a while when I kept, like, I kept visiting her, right? And she got, yeah, bad also in, in,

in the memory and thought-wise. So she confused me with my brother, even with my uncle and stuff like that. So it felt like I wasn't really meeting my grandma anymore. Like she was starting to, yeah, fade away. How long has that been going on? Two years. Two years? When her, oh, the accident or her memory?

No, no, her memory. Two years-ish. Okay. Two, two, three years. And I got so much guilt. It takes me, it takes me a while to get there, even. to visit her because it's another city. And even when I visit her, the feeling is also not right.

Because, yeah, she's just so confused and stuff like that. Sure. So I decided to, and which was so hard for me to do, but I decided to try to work with myself and because I could barely even visit her as well because I was at a pretty bad condition. But that led me to feeling even more guilt because I didn't visit her on top of that. So it was just a bad loop on top of that with everything else I had. You felt like you were abandoning her?

Yeah. I felt like the only one that I could trust in this world. Yeah. You felt like the only one you could trust in this world was heard. So what would you feel by when you sort of disqualification? decided to work on yourself. No, I knew hi. I had to.

I knew I had to. It was, yeah. What are you feeling right now? Well, it's, yeah, I don't know. It's just that, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I'm feeling I will never really get again, basically. But yeah.

Yeah. I'm imagining that you're kind of just remembering, you know, how much she met to you and that. Yeah. I think she was the only one that made me human, to be honest. Yeah. Or somewhat human, but yeah. William, do you feel alone?

For sure. For sure. Is that the main part of it? I don't think so. I think there's so many other parts on it. I've been thinking about it. too, if it is. But I think, like, even if...

So I can even be with friends and stuff like that, and still feel lonely. It's just that... I don't think... I think there's so much more into it. Tell us. Well, I think... I mean, when I've been in a relationship,

I know what happiness can be. I don't have to fake it. I know how the world should be when you're a functional human. So I've touched upon that part. And you know it's possible. Yeah. But I think it was through distraction that I reached it as a relationship.

I think, yeah, I've dealt with all my problems when I'm at the peak, like when I'm feeling good. But yeah. How do you feel when you're feeling bad? When I'm feeling bad? I don't have motivation. I have so many different kind of bad periods. Sure. So it depends on which one you mean.

So let's start by tell us the different kinds of bad. Excellent. Excellent point on your part. Yeah. I mean, I guess that's already one of them, one I've been already telling is it's my childhood, basically. And yeah, that was. I didn't understand why what function I even had to, why I was existing.

Because what I just heard from my mom was that she hates me and that I just take place in the world and that she doesn't even want me. And so I took D-Rout. Yeah. I, what struck me a lot was like when a friend told me like, dude, whose life are you actually living for? it's not even your life and I'm like, what do you mean? And then that's the kind of first time I opened up. I was like living the life to try to pleasure my mom,

basically or to meet up her demands, which was never met anyways. Been crazy how crazy that she really could never say thank you or have never even heard her say, I love you or stuff like that. That was totally out of the dictionary. It's more like when she told me to do things. It was always never good enough, no matter what I did.

Like, if I vacuumed the house and I, she came home and saw it, she would scream at me and also say the way, like, you have not vacuum cleaned, right, as in intending that I haven't done it very much, even though I might have still done it. How old were you watching how do you vacuum the house? Oh, 10? Yeah, I don't know, quite early. I did a lot. I did shopping. I helped her, uh,

helped her, um, doing, washing clothes. I, yeah, there's a lot of things. But,

uh, yeah, too. Older? No, she's the oldest. Hmm. Did she have to help a lot around the house?

I don't know how much. From the story, from what I understand, I'm not really, sure. I haven't asked too much about it. And I don't remember who told me it, but it might be from her. So it might be very false. I take everything she says with a very grain of salt. I can't really trust my mother. So I don't really, if it's from my mother, then, which I think it is, she said that she took care of her siblings because parents were out and stuff.

Like my grandpa was at prison and my grandma had to take care of her or something like that. oddly enough, I don't know if she's mistaken there. Wait. She may be right that she took care of her siblings, and we'll get to that in a second. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay, yeah.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Different kind of bads. Sorry. I trailed off a little bit. So that would be like, yeah, I took detours. Oh, yeah. And she made me do a lot of things that I...

Okay, so this kind of bads. I'm trailing off a little bit too much here, I see. I'm just going to try to talk. about the bads. The bads were... William. Yeah. You're doing fine, bro. Okay.

Yeah. So the bads were like... You're doing actually really well. Thank you. It's... I tried to always... When I was younger, I tried to always... Um...

Make my mom happier, so the punishment would be less, verbally and stuff like that. So I always, when I came home, I looked if there were her shoes inside, so I could prepare what kind of state I could be in. And I can't hear by our footsteps before. Like, if I were to play computer games, I had study materials next to me. So I would like shut off the screen and put it in front of me just to make her not rage as much as she would towards me. just to prevent as much as I could and, you know, try to even flatter her by some compliments and stuff like that. But so, yeah, that kind of bad is like I tried to do something.

I kind of dis, not really, I didn't really disgust it at that time. But, like, I had to live through it and still feel bad about it in that punishment. And then there is, later on before I even talked a lot about this and managed this, I had the different kind of bad as in everything was extremely heavy. No matter what I did. You mean like physical heaviness? And mentally, especially. You felt like your body was heavy?

yeah everything I did you described it really good when you say debuff it really is a big debuff yeah because and it affects on everything um so but at that bad time of debuff last like the heaviness that one yeah um because it's been in periods and stuff like that i felt it mostly when I broke up with my girlfriend. So that one lasted for, I would say, two years, but before that I had gone through it for a very long time. But I think, like, I was living with it. So, like, my thoughts were when I broke up with my girlfriend again was like, holy shit, has it been this bad? Maybe I, because I wasn't quite a long time relationship.

So I think I faded it out for like five and a half years. And... Do you mind if I ask how old you are? I'm 29. Okay. Yep. So, yeah, I think I didn't really remember, but there's actually a lot of things there

that I could also mention, actually, in that period, too. But... Go for it, bro. Yeah, I didn't understand how heavily I've been through it every day. because I think I got used to it so much at that time, even though I still know it's been really shitty. Like I even wrote a diary how often my mom would scream at my ear and telling me how useless I am and stuff like that. Even when I was begging or banging my head against the wall and screaming for her to stop, she would still continue to do that. So I wrote a diary how many times she does it at my probably worst period.

And I stopped after like a week when I realized she did it on average one. to one and a half hour per day. Just screaming at these things and stuff like that. But yeah. Sorry, I lost a little bit of what I was. That's cool, man. I think you're doing a really remarkable job of trying to keep track of the conversation. You don't actually need to keep track of it so much.

I'm keeping track. Can I ask you a couple of other? So first of all, dude, it sounds like you've been through like you've just have a really shitty life. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I cannot imagine having your mom, you know, like be banging your head against a wall signaling to her in every way that you know how, that you are distressed and that you were hurting and that she doesn't give a shit and just keeps hurting. To be honest, I think she was actually enjoying it even more. There's a lot of things I've tried. I mean, I started even ignoring her. I tried to ignore

technique because yeah I remember I talked to my grandma and said dude I think I can't I can't last anymore like I'm I'm so broken and I'm quite young when I'm saying this I was like yeah because I was thinking about moving out already when I was like yeah 11 12ish and uh well that's when I started ignoring her for one and a half year as well I tried so many different techniques just to try to see what works and what you know so even when we were living in the same roof i ignored what happens to someone who tries a lot of techniques and none of them work well that that's my other uh dark side so the first yeah these first that i'm talking about like even though it still felt so heavy and stuff like i still felt like i knew or i knew i i had possibilities to actually work with methods that would

helped me. Like, I tried to discover a lot by myself how to improve and stuff like that or visiting the psychologist and things like that. So I still kind of felt hope. But especially when it beat me again down to these bad loops. And especially when it went longer and longer, I felt more and more hopeless. Like, oh shit, maybe there is no way to go. Like, I've done everything by the textbook. I've tried so many things. So that's my second bad where I start to feel,

because now I don't feel as heavy as before. Definitely not. But there has been periods, yeah. But they're not as heavy as before. Definitely not. before I could think out, yeah, suicidal thoughts like four or five times per day. But now it's more, yeah, the way of it's hopeless. And I'm not, yeah, getting anywhere.

I've tried a lot. Yeah, so I'm actually a little bit surprised that you, you're still alive. Does that, is that weird to hear? No, no, no. I actually say that to everyone I meet that I share this story. I don't know why I'm still alive. That's how I'm saying. I literally don't know why I'm still alive.

And that's why I don't want to promise anyone as well when it comes to them saying like, yeah. But yeah, that's another. Yeah. But yeah. I get you. So we're going to think about, I'm going to just, can I collect my thoughts for a moment? Yeah. So let me start with this, William.

I feel like I've asked you 2% of the questions that I want to ask. And I understand 2% of what I want to understand about you. Okay. And at the same time, I feel like I, you know, people come on here for answers. And so we have to take a step back and acknowledge that the answers are, you know, I don't really have answers. But the thoughts that I have for you aren't going to be accurate because I really don't know. You know, we've just scratched the surface of who you are. Yeah.

Yeah. At the same time, you know, I want to share with you something that a patient of mine who had tried to commit suicide several times, you know, And one day I asked him because he feels a lot the same way you do. And so I was like, you know, so it sounds like you don't really have any like reason to live. Like what? You know, you don't have hope, which is fair because you don't have any reason to hope. Right? Because like we just tell people like, oh, just like keep hoping, keep hoping. I think people who say that don't really understand what.

Yes. The lives of the people that they're talking to have been. Like I cannot, you know, to be an eight year old child and yelling at your mom to stop and banging your head against a wall because what she's saying is hurting you and for her to continue yelling at you for like 60 minutes or 90 minutes is just like why the fuck and then like how many days can an eight year old hold on to hope with that happening how many years can you hold on like you know at some point the hope runs out and i get that i don't think it's reasonable for you to hope.

And also, I want you to hope and I hope that I can help you hope a little bit. And if I can't, that's okay too because I don't think it's my place to believe that I can get you to hope. Does that make sense? Like, I'm gonna give it a shot. But if you choose not to hope

at the end of this conversation, like that's totally cool, man. Like, I have no problem with that. I'll be sad. But at the same time, like, I won't blame you for it, right? Because like, why the fuck would you Oh, like you've been doing this for 29 years. And, you know, it sounds like whenever you start to claw your way forward,

something just pulls you back. And what's pulling you back, I mean, you know, I almost get the sense that you're swimming in the ocean and you have a cannonball attached to your legs. And you can work really, really, really hard to swim to the surface and get a breath of fresh air. And then you're kind of like put, like you're not pulling the cannonball up. But like any time you start to slack a little bit,

that cannonball is there just drags you down. and I don't see a point in you continuing to try to swim to the surface if you can't ever get rid of the cannonball. Like that's just no way to win life, like live life. Yeah. So the question is, why do you live? And I don't mean that. I'll give you that an answer. Yeah.

Right? And I don't mean like, like, I don't mean that in a philosophical sense. No. I get you though, because I've been thinking about that extremely much as well. One of them is I tried to know. not be to be egoistic. Or maybe that's the main reason. But that also runs out

after a while. But yeah, basically, like, even though what I feel as I feel, I know logically, like, for instance, my brother would be devastated. And before that, like, when my grandma was... No, no, no, I don't think you're getting... Hold on. All that stuff is fine.

I mean like literally like why are like so I'm not saying okay so let me tell you what this patient told me okay okay so he's like you know you tried to kill himself a bunch of times and and so like I was like why don't you kill yourself like you know why are you no longer suicidal he had suicidal thoughts but he wasn't intending on killing himself and then I asked him you know why is that and he's like well you know after the third or fourth time I realized

that as much as I wanted to kill myself and I would try to kill myself, my body wouldn't let me. So literally the reason he's alive is not because he has a reason to live, but because there's literally a force literally within his body that keeps him from killing himself.

And that there's something inside you that wants to live more than you want to die. Right. That is the reason I think you're alive. Yeah, I do recognize with that as well. Yeah. And it's fucking weird because you want to die, but there's something inside you that's like, no, man, we're not going to do that.

Right? And in his case, like he was like he literally realized that he was trying to kill his body. So there was some part of his being that was like putting pills into his mouth and trying to kill himself. And there was another part of his body that was like, this is bad for me. I don't want this. And he would vomit. And so one thing. I don't mean this in sort of a philosophical or psychological sense.

I mean, like, literally, if we look at it scientifically, there is something within you that is striving for life. And that's the only, if we really look at it scientifically with all the shit that you've been through, if you haven't killed yourself, the reasons to kill yourself are like, let's give it a score of a thousand. And if you haven't died, that means that there's something inside you that is worth 1,001, fighting against that. Can we just acknowledge that for a moment? Does that make sense?

Yeah. And so I think your way forward is an understanding like what the fuck is that? Right? Because if we can try it like and I think you can talk about all of the things that are bad in your life and the different kinds of bad you experience, fantastic. I think each of those are particular debuffs that you need to cleanse before you get healed. And I do think that you can get healed. And the reason that I think you can get healed is very, it's scientific. It's not hope.

It's not philosophical. It's not even psychological. It's just that I see a guy who has something within his whole being of a person that wants to live more than you want to die. And I just don't think you understand what that is. And I think you've lived your whole life being confused about that thing. But as you begin to understand it, you'll actually find hope. But it's not going to come from like me telling you that life is. is, you know, worth living, which I do think it is. And I do think you should continue to live.

I'm glad you're alive. And I do have hope for you. I think you can be fully healed. Let me just say all of those things. Because I really do believe that. And yeah, I mean, yeah, I think they too. I think it comes from, it starts with the exploration of like, and I think you're in the right spot. Like, you're like, you know, why am I here? And it's not a rhetorical question. That doesn't mean I don't have any reason to live. Although that could be true. But the question is, if you have no reason to live and yet you continue to exist and you have no reason to be there, there has to be a reason why you're here. And finding that thing is going to be the start of your journey. Right. So like, we have to accept as a fact that you are here. Yeah. And that like, this is the other

thing. Now we get philosophical because I think like there is order in the universe. Like I think things happen for a reason. And I don't mean that in terms of like a divine reason. I mean like literally if I hold this pen and I let go, it's going to fall. It fell for a reason. Like, like if there's rain, that means that there are going to be clouds, right? That there's like order and rhythm to the universe. And that if you're alive, like I don't think that order in the universe breaks down at some arbitrary point, which is what a lot of people who claim to be scientific believe. Right. So they sort of that yeah, there's like an order to clouds and rain and stuff, but there's not an order to life. They just sort of draw this arbitrary dividing line, which in my mind, let me know if I'm losing you

or if this is getting abstract. Do you follow on what I'm saying? I think so, yeah. Okay. Anyway, so I think that there's a, there's a reason that you're alive. Yeah. And I think we have to explore kind of what that is. the second thing is in terms of your question of can you be healed fully healed fully healed yeah I think so although maybe not

let me think about that for a second I think you can be healed enough to where you can no longer want to die and you will cling on to life I do believe you can be fully healed as well but as a clinician and a scientist I can't put my money on fully healed, but I do feel comfortable putting my money on healed enough.

Yeah. So if you would put a percentage on it, how much would it be, so to say, if... I think 80%. 80%. Okay. Yeah. That's cool.

Yeah, I was guessing around 80, 90, myself as well. Yeah. I think 90's a little bit optimistic. Do I believe it's possible? Sure. But I'd put my money on 80. Yeah. And here's...

And I want to hear a little bit more about, like, your backslide and when you started feeling better and stuff. But even before we go there, I'll share a couple of thoughts if that's okay with you. Do you want to jump in and say anything or ask questions, by the way? No, I'm fine. Okay. So I'm going to share with you a couple of thoughts, and then I want to ask you a little bit about how you started to feel better and now how you feel worse.

Okay. So I think the problem with getting fully healed is that like you think about getting fully healed is like 80%, but it's not really 80%. It's like, like, so did you ever play Fallout? No. Okay. So in Fallout, you have like different body parts and you can like target and damage different body parts. Right. And then like depending on what you damage, you like lose some ability. Like if someone like wounds your leg, then your movement speed is reduced. If they wound your arm, you can't shoot things. You know. And so I think when we talk about 100%, I don't know if you can get 100%, but I think you can like heal your leg and like have the movement debuff gone. And so I think it's actually in a weird way, optimistic that you have a lot of different kinds of bad. Because if it was just one blob of bad, like, I don't know what to do about that. But the feeling of loneliness is like a particular thing that I think you can improve.

The feeling of motivation, I think it's a particular thing that you can improve. And the feeling of hopelessness, I think is a particular thing that you can improve. I think the feeling of being extremely heavy, which hits you for two years at a time, is a particular thing which you can improve. And I think all of these things are maybe related in some way, but I think they're discrete things. So, for example, your feeling of extreme heaviness sounds to me like clinical depression. Sounds like you suffer for something called neurovegetative depression. And the cool thing is that we have good scientific evidence that there may be mental health treatments that you can engage in,

which will drastically reduce the hurt from that thing. The feeling of loneliness, I think, also is something that we can address. The feeling of, oh, and this is a big one, is worth. Like, you literally have not been taught that it's okay for you to exist. Like, I don't know how else to put that. But, like, literally, you were taught that it's not okay for you to exist. So most eight-year-olds sort of have this fundamental sense of that it's like okay for me to be here right now.

Right? Like they walk up to you and they're like, daddy, can I have food? Because they have a presumption that like, it's okay for me to be here. It's okay for me to walk up to my dad. And it's okay for me to ask him for food if they feel hungry. Like you were actually the most devastating thing is you are not given like a baseline permission to exist as a human being. And so I don't know how you're going to find why you're going to find why you're,

you exist if you're not even allowed to exist in the first place. Does that make sense? Yeah. It's like you don't even deserve to have Eric Reeve is like what you were told. So it sort of starts and this is where I think like, you know, fully healed. Maybe we can actually like, you know, go from, we can crit heal you to like 100%. I think that's possible. Unlikely, but possible.

And, and the, what the crit heal looks like is for you to have a basic sense that you are allowed. to belong in the world. And I think you've got to be careful because you're saying, I don't feel like I belong. I think that's even, the reason that you haven't made progress is because I think you're,

you're not really meeting yourself where you're at. It's not even that, like, why do you belong? That's not even like, that's one step ahead. It's, are you even allowed to belong in any way, shape, or form? That's the first question you've got to answer. Because I think right now in your head, there's a part of you that the answer is no. Like, you don't deserve to be here at all.

Like, what do you think about that? Yeah. So I have thought about that as well a lot. So I tried to really live in the now. So I tried to be very neutral on that point. But before that, yes, 100%. But now I still try to be very neutral. And I would say, yeah, I don't know where I'm at that point.

Okay. Probably wouldn't say no or yes. So, William, I'm tempted to go down this road with you, but I think it could be hard for you to understand because I don't know how to explain it adequately. And I think we're going to lose our viewers even more, but I'm going to give it a shot. Is that okay?

Okay. So let's start with the idea that you don't even deserve to be here in any way, shape, or form. Forget about why am I here. It's like you're not allowed to be here to begin with. With me there? Okay. Okay.

So why am I here as a question that's like for level two? Level one question is do I get to be here with me? Then you said, okay, so that was a question where you used to ask yourself, do I even get to be here? Do I get to spawn in at all? Or do I like sit in the lobby and like never get to spawn in and don't get to play the game? Like why I'm playing the game is a separate question. Do I even get to spawn in with me?

Yeah, yeah. Then you said you started being in the present. And the more that you're in the present, it sounds like it's easier to get away from the question of do I get to spawn in at all? Yes? Yeah. Yes. Now, let me ask you a question. Is being in the present, does that give you, do you feel like you have permission to exist?

Or do you distract yourself from the question of whether you have permission to exist? Probably distracting myself from the question, I would say, yeah. Okay. I hope people are able to follow that. Because that's really important, right? Because what I think your perception of sliding back is, which in turn is going to make you hopeless, right? So the more that you feel like you're moving forward and you slide back, the more your hopelessness is going to increase. That's logical.

With me? Yeah. Right? So, but I think that the reason that you're right to be hopeless because that's not actually getting healed, that's like getting shielded. Right? And so a shield sort of gives you the same effect as healing, but it's not really healing. Because when the shield goes away, like, you're back to square one. And then you start to ask yourself, can I get healed when actually what you're doing is you're distracting, which is like a shield.

It's bonus hit points. It's not actual healing. Yeah. So now I have to think, even if that's the case. So I feel like I understand you. Now I have the problem of where do we go from here? So I'm going to need a second. Do you have questions?

No. Okay, that would help me a lot if you did, but... Well, you can ask me questions if there's something unclear. No, I mean, there's a lot that I want to know about you, but I feel like we're on the same page that, you know, your attempts to get better aren't really getting you better, which I agree with. I just don't know how to heal you, which I have to just give me a second. Okay, so I'm going to think out long. Right, so you don't even deserve to exist. So how do we help you understand that you deserve to exist? And do we want to ask you more questions about...

So the safer route is probably we just ask you more questions about how you got, how you came to know that you don't deserve to exist. or we can just try to give you an experience of you taking your existence for granted and for you to understand and sit and feel within yourself that you deserve to be here. Something to add on as well. Yeah. That might give you. So I think this with the existence part, I think that also is very much connected to the loneliness that I feel like.

even when friends say that, oh, yeah, you mean a lot to me and stuff like that. It's kind of like I don't really believe them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I do have worked with a lot of self-compassion and taking, like, compliments better. In the real world? I have done like that extremely many times, yes. like where I disassociate myself, well, extremely much. Like, even when I'm at a party with friends that are close to me and everybody's happy,

I just wonder, like, what am I doing here? Oh, right. I have to fake my happiness around them and stuff like that. Yeah. There's a lot. Yeah, the ghost thing is, yeah, it's very, it has been many of that times, yes. Yeah, sorry for derailing you. So you were saying, you know, your friends have.

Yeah, I'm just getting the sense that, like, you know, like you're playing a game where you're like, you know, you can interact with NPCs and stuff, but you're like, you're like ethereal. You're not like a real character. And it's like the NPCs are sort of there and you're interacting with them, but you don't, I mean, it makes sense to me that you can't understand. So it sounds like you're confused, not confused, but you really can't digest. Maybe that's the word I'm looking for, that you bring value to other human beings. Is that fair? Like you don't. like you sort of get what they're saying but like it doesn't yeah exactly yeah you can't digest it

like it's not yeah right it's like it's like they can't touch you like their hand just goes right through you it's like not landing with you and and i think that comes back because you haven't like zoned into the world yet like you have to be like in the world and like existing there and understand that you're there for other people to be able to affect you yeah and i think a lot of the stuff that people have tried isn't working like the reason you can't get healed is because you don't have a physical body right you got to zone in first and like not be a ghost and then you can like get HP back but it comes with this basic it comes to the basic idea that you do not belong in this world and to me what do you think about that yeah i mean it makes

sense. But when I was in a relationship, I could, like, I did touch upon the world and stuff like that. And none of these thoughts has occurred or anything like that. I, like, the, the colors of the world just, I appreciated it so much more, like autumn colors and stuff like that, like all small things. Like, because I, before that, I really faked a lot, like, fake it till you make it. I faked my posture and things like that to be happy. But when I was in the world, I didn't even have to fake it. I could see it all. And it became super clear for me.

Yeah. So you're like a ghost that had incarnated. And like, you know, ghosts see the world in shades of gray. And they pretend. But you would become a person. So it's actually great that you went there because my next question was going to be, can you tell me about your relationship? Can you tell me about your relationship?

How he was or? Sure. Like, how'd you meet? You're dating a girl. You said girlfriend, right? Yeah. Well, technically, yeah, through friends. Yeah, through friends.

I'm thinking there was one time we met earlier. But through friends, yeah. Tell me about her. But there were some things that she noticed, which I filtered totally, right? I'm not really sure why I even, because every time I've had a girlfriend and talked and tried to introduce them to my parents. I don't remember why I did it or if it was my mom forcing me to do it. I don't really remember why, but they were all super terrified with it, which I have.

They all are super terrified. Who's they? The girlfriends I've had, the different ones. Yeah. And but the one that was in a very long time, she noticed also how toxic my mom was towards me. And I thought I didn't even think anything of it because that was such a kind of low-tier toxicness, so to say, where I didn't even... As your mom being nice. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And I didn't like that was so out of my filtration, but she mentioned that night. She was like, dude, I got so infuriated. I wanted to like kind of scream back at her or punch her. But I didn't even notice that. And she had to highlight that because usually it's so much worse. Who said I want to scream at someone? My girlfriend at that time. So she felt like screaming at your mom?

Yeah. And punching her. Yeah, at my mom because my mom was trash talking me so much. What was she saying? Do you remember? Like, so I was doing the cooking and stuff like that and, uh, um, yeah, working and stuff like that. So she said, uh, I, I think she said something along the line like, oh, uh, I, I hope you take care of him. He's so useless. He doesn't even know how to cook and take care of himself.

Uh, and things like that. Um, but yeah, it got totally out of my radar. I didn't even think of it. that much. How does it feel to have someone who wants to defend you like that? It felt nice. Like, it felt really nice because in that time, as I said, I was really living the world. And I think that's maybe why I also filtered her talk even better than ever. Because I guess, no matter if I ignore her and stuff like that, it still sips in through my ears, no matter what, no matter what I do.

And even if I pretend not to hear her or put like earphones and ear plugs in my ears, they still go through. I still get affected by it. But there I didn't even care about it. Sure. And so tell me about you guys were together for five and a half years. That's a long time. Yeah. Yeah.

And we actually moved in immediately even together. But yeah, we talked about a lot before and met. before that as well. And when did you all break up? Three years ago. And were you happy for the time that you all were together? Yeah.

Yeah. What ended up happening? Did you feel like you had substance or were you still a ghost? I realized also, I picked up a lot of things. I realized, but I don't know exactly at what order it becomes. but I realized I picked up some toxicness from my mom that I said to her and she said it back to me.

Like, I think I realized my toxicness and stopped myself, but then I realized that she was quite toxic in the same way as my mom being in a different way. I mean, it was a little bit more toxic relationship in the end that killed it, I would say. What was toxic about your relationship? Or it was actually much more on to that than that. There was some things we didn't really agree on. Like what? So William, here's what I'm trying to do.

So I'm seeing the beginning of your relationship where you're happy. There's someone who cares about you is defending you. And I'm wondering what happened to that relationship. Yeah, I think it started fading out like a reference point like it faded out more and

it started becoming heavy being in the relationship too in the end like it really did like yeah something I kind of googled because I tried a lot

because I think I have like fear of fear of embattlement and stuff like that so I tried a lot to get this relationship to work we even broke up like Yeah, three times. The third time I really got the courage to really end it. But it took more. Maybe it was things from the past that got back to me again,

but it took more to actually be in the relationship. Like it consumed so much more energy. What became hard about the relationship? Everything. I mean, I don't know if it makes sense, but it's, yeah. And we didn't really see like we did before as well, like the, yeah, like the sparks of being in a relationship. So I'm getting a lot of vagueness from you. I'm getting a lot of conclusions and a lot of vagueness.

And I really don't understand. You gave me a lot of color and substance to the beginning of your relationship. Yeah. But I'm not seeing a whole lot of color and substance at the end. You call it talks about. Yeah, we tried to. Yeah. So we tried to.

So I tried to get it to work for a long time because, you know, that's what you hear. What were you trying to get to work? Our relationship to work that we had. What was not work? So what I'm hearing very clearly is your efforts and the hopelessness. But I'm not hearing like what the problem was. There was like, for instance. we didn't agree on

like the dividing parts of like fixing the house, cleaning and cooking, like those trivial things and and tell me how did you guys disagree about that? Well William, why did you want to break up with her?

There was a lot of reasons, a lot of reasons. From trivial to more complex. But yeah, to sum it up, it was like consuming more energy than actually giving. Don't sum it up. Tell me, tell me

why. I don't know how personal it is. I don't want to say it without her permission and stuff like that. Oh, okay. That's totally fine. That's completely. So yeah, it's too hard for me to actually say it's here. Okay, but

You know what they are. Yes, I would say so, yeah, for sure. Because I was the one proposing to even break up to and stuff like that. Yeah. So I kind of raised those things to get it to work, but it didn't. So that's why I was like, yeah. So can you tell me what, you know, you said after a couple of years it started to become parter? Like, what became parter?

to be in the relationship yeah so what about the relationship became hard yeah but i mean to even um i don't know it felt like it hindered me a lot too like um she was so shy so whenever we had to meet friends i had to be the one contacting and stuff like that and i started

irritating about these stuff as well like there was a lot of things i started to get irritated about and stuff like that as well did you feel like she wasn't pulling her weight in the relationship? Like she wasn't her fair share? Yes. Yes. Definitely. That's one of the bigger ones. Well, that's one of the bigger reasons. Can you just map out the other bigger reasons? Like once again, you don't have to say anything that you're concerned about. Yeah, I, I mean, is that okay to share with us or is that not okay to share? Well, first, let's, because I don't want you to say things that you don't want to say. But like if I'm, yeah, no, I'm, I'm going to skip that because I want her permission first. I'm not going to.

So let me, okay, then let me say this. But we went on a psychologist to get it, to try to fix it as a complex. Oh, wow. That's good for you. So, yeah, we really tried a lot of things. But yes. Have you been dating? Now?

Yeah. You guys broke up three years ago, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've been on some dates. And, yeah. I have, yes And how's that friend? Somewhat disappointing

but yeah, but one of them was quite nice, I would say but I don't think it's going to lead to anywhere. Why not? Because she doesn't really want to have anything serious. And you're looking for something serious?

Yeah, I would say so. But I've been thinking a lot about just being happy and stuff like that too in the relationship. So that's kind of what we agreed and now as we are where we are. Yes. Okay. But yeah, I would definitely want that more serious.

William, so what can I help you with? I would want to hear, I actually got a lot of inspiration from your community. It's an awesome community. So I'm actually digging into which, yeah, sparked some more new hopes for me as well. and I've actually done something else that has made me feel so much better now as well. So I'm actually more at the, yeah, it's been good, but yeah, I guess the future will tell. What have you been? So it sounds like you started feeling better after, because at the very beginning you said you started feeling better after being like active in our community, then you started to slip back.

So can you tell us about that? Yeah, well, yeah, that slipping back was even before or even in the community. But I tried an SSRI alternative, which helps a lot. So yeah, that just lifted me up a lot. And I found something that correlates to me a lot. Someone linked some C-PTSD, if you know what it is. Yep. Yeah.

And it resonates extremely much with me. So I'm actually reading a book about it now. Good. In hopes. And so far 40, 50 pages in and I feel like it's describing me literally. Yep. So what's the book? It's called from, well, CPDSD.

From surviving to thriving. Cool. Yeah. Okay. So can you tell me when did you start to get better? Because it sounds like you started getting better recently. So it sounds like there was... It was when I took this alternative.

I don't know if it's better. It just... It just removes the debuffs, so to say, but I don't know what happens if I stop it or... Like, the wound is still there, which I have to hear... Deal, right? So it's going to be interesting to see when I stopped doing that for a while, what's going to happen as well.

So I'm confused. Are you feeling better nowadays? I am feeling better. better when I started taking it, yes. How long have you been taking it? One and a half month. Okay. And so it sounds like you now, and your psychologist is aware that you have C PTSD or no?

I actually called her up and mentioned it when I got to know about it. And we actually took a session again and stuff like that because she was not really surprised if I've fallen back, but I told her that I've fallen back to. the battle tracks and stuff like that. But I'm really confused. Have you fallen back or are you doing better? I'm sorry. I feel after I'm taking the alternatives,

I feel better. Like I have energy to do things now. It's not a big weight. I can't even do my hobbies. I can't even game. I couldn't even game before. Like I got disgusted. me playing even because i anything i did was just horrible what yeah um so i even though when i

forced myself to do things i couldn't uh but now i actually can do things um good for you man yeah definitely um so yes i am better but i wonder if i'm better only because i'm taking them and then when I stop, I come back exactly where I was before. And is that what I can help you with? So what can I help you with? I was wondering if you knew where to go next. Fantastic. From my point of view.

Yeah. Okay. That I can certainly help you with. So first of all, William, it sounds like you're doing better. Yeah. And what I'm hearing from you is fear that the only reason you're doing better is because you have this artificial medication that's tampering with your neurochemistry

in that you're not actually doing better. So now, let me tell you what healing looks like. Okay? So, like, I guess what I'm hearing from you is, can I still get healed, or is this another shield? Yeah. Like, because the medication feels like a shield, and that's, I think, exactly what it is.

And can you be fully healed? And maybe what you're looking for me is direction in how to get fully healed or how to get healed. And what's the role of medication? How do you move forward? And the short answer is that I think, okay, so here we go. And then I'll give you a chance to ask questions, and then maybe we'll meditate and then we'll wrap up.

Does that sound okay? Yep. Okay. So I'm going to start by sharing with you something called Buncha Goshi theory, which is GOSHA means sheath, like what you put a sword in, you know, like a sheath. And then Bunch means five. So the idea here is that you have five layers of being.

So when we think about William, William is like has a physical body. And then William also has thoughts. Like those are separate things, right? Like if I, if you lose an arm, are you still William? Yeah. If you have a body and then unfortunately like your grandmother, it sounds like she's got dementia. And I, you know, it's a terrible thing to deal with. You know, she has a physical.

body, but like who she is as a person has sort of slipped away, right? So do you see that like who a person is, is not like mind or body? It's like mind plus body plus actually other stuff. So a couple thousand years ago, yogis are Ayurvedic physicians called Vaidyas, I'm clear exactly, you know, what they were, said that basically there are five layers of being. So the first layer of being is physical. the second is energetic, the third is emotional, the fourth is intellectual, and the fifth is spiritual. And I think in order for you to be healed, you've got to get like healing done on all of those levels.

Okay, so let's talk about each of your problems. I wonder if I should draw this out. Can you hold on a second? I'm going to go grab. Do you want iPad? Do you want diagrams? Plans? Sure.

Okay. Give me a second. Okay. Let's just take a quick break. Run to the restroom if you need to. I'm going to grab water, and then I'm going to grab my iPad. Okay, can you see, we're good to go? The check in with Twitch hat.

Can you all see that? Okay. All right. So, William, your question is, how do you get fully healed? Right? Yeah, and where, yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm going to tell you how you can get fully healed.

Okay. So it starts with this, SpongeGor. So you have physical, energetic. And what I'm going to do is break down your quote-unquote diagnosis amongst these. And so you're going to see how all of the things that are wrong with you, not I mean all, but that's grandiose. So I'm going to show you the different, essentially you've got like five layers. And what's going on is that each of your layers has been attacked and damaged in different ways. for the process of full healing actually requires you to heal each of these layers and it requires you to heal each of the layers.

And then the other problem that I'll try to show you is why you feel hopeless because the things that you're healing are actually not on the layer that the damage was done. And I'll explain what that means. Okay. So the first thing is you have this sense of sluggishness, right? So let's do like diagnosis here. Okay. And then let's do like treatment over here. So if we think about sluggishness, do you think that that's physical, energetic, emotional, intellectual, or spiritual?

Your body being heavy. Physical. Okay. So sluggishness. I don't know. Actually, no way. Yeah, wait. It's energetic.

Very good. So it's actually on more than one. And. Okay. So let's think about like, so does talking to your psychologist help you with your feelings of slugginess? If it helped, yes. Does it? I mean, it came back again.

Okay. But not as a not as heavy as before as well. Okay. So this is a good example of like if we have, you know, emotional treatment here. So if we do medication, that gives us a lot of healing, right? If we do talk therapy. So that's actually the emotional mind, right? So if we do emotional treatments for physical problems, we get a little bit of benefit.

But do you see how medication helps way more than talking about your feelings? So the other interesting thing, okay, so we'll get to that. So the other thing that you can do is, have you ever done Chi Gong or Pranayam? Do you meditate with us on stream? I've meditated for a while, yes Okay, so there are some kinds of meditation That are called Braanayam or in the Chinese system What's your ethnicity by the way?

Yeah, it's Chinese And what part of the world are you in? Sweden Okay, so like if you do pranayem or chi-gong These are specifically meditative practices That are aimed at boosting your energetic self Or your chi or your prana Does that make sense?

Mm-hmm. So it's like not like meditating on, you know, the nature of things or stuff like that. It's not an intellectual meditation. It's like an energetic meditation. So if you guys have ever heard of the Wim Hof method, have you ever heard of Wim Hof? No. So Wim Hof is this guy who learned this like form of, I think, Tibetan meditation where like he can now do things that are physically impossible in terms of like resisting cold. So he'll go and like sit and in a guy.

And so the thing is like what he does is like physically not possible. You can't be in hypothermic water for an hour and like not lose fingers. But that's literally what Wim Hof is capable of doing. What Wim Hof does is Brannium. So like this shit absolutely works. There's also data that suggests that doing Brannium actually makes you resistant to heart attacks, which I can go into the physiology of like how that works. but because it's actually really fascinating.

The point is that you can actually do things through pranayam and chie gong that will boost your energy. I don't know how else to put it, but like when you feel sluggishness, if I were to do blood tests, I may find vitamin D being low, right? So that's an example of something that leads to depression. Low level vitamin D levels lead to depression. It's possible that you're vitamin D deficient. But you just feel sluggish.

If I take you to a doctor and they listen to your lungs and I take you to like an orthopedic surgeon and I get him to like test your strength, nothing is physically going to be wrong with your body. Do you get that when you're sluggish? But something, it feels like literally like your sluggishness is an energy problem. And there are some techniques what the yogis realized is like there are some techniques that you can do to boost your energy because you're not doing something physical. It's like they're working specifically on the energetic body. Another good example of this is yoga or Tai Chi. And there are studies that show that yoga and Tai Chi is superior to exercise at treating things like arthritis. And if you go to people who are experts in yoga and you ask them, why do you think that yoga is superior to exercise?

Because in both of them, you're moving, right? So like, why is yoga superior to Tai Chi in some clinical trials? There's a great paper by, for example, Chen Chen Wong in the New England Journal of Medicine from like 2010, 12, where she does a trial on osteoarthritis and compares Tai Chi to exercise and finds that Tai Chi is superior. And so the question is if both of these are physical practices, scientifically, how is it that Tai Chi outperforms exercise because you're moving your body in both cases? Does that make sense?

Like how that you should get the same effect. But clearly scientifically, we are finding that Tai Chi is not the same as exercise. And if you ask Tai Chi masters, what they say is, yeah, it's because we work on an energetic level, not just the physical one. What does that mean? No one has any fucking idea. Like, scientists have been trying to find evidence of chi or prana, and they've never been able to find it. All we know is that when you incorporate, when you design a practice that's based on this hoity-toity, unscientific principle of energy, it actually outperforms purely physical practices. That is a scientific fact.

So my point is that in terms of healing yourself, you can do these things. Okay? And what that's going to do over time is when you take out the medication, you're going to lose the benefit of the medication. You with me? Yeah. But if you do these things in the meantime,

this is going to make a very slow plus. Very, very slow. And if you do this for six months and then you stop medication, you're going to have like a plus that's left over. And you'll do better without medication. Does that make sense? Okay. So basically, the thing about energetic practices in Bruneiom is that they're going to heal you. It's like a regeneration buff. You're going to heal like one hit point every week. And so if that's all you do when you're feeling super depressed and sluggish, it's not going to be faced enough for you to notice any difference. With me? Yeah. I can't see your face now. That's why I'm asking. Oh, okay. And at the same time, it's because I have the iPad pulled up. Gotcha.

So, oh, actually, but maybe, yeah, I have to have it pull up. But at the same time, it is going to heal you over time. The other problem is that if you are sluggish, you're not going to have the time or energy to be able to do yoga or braonam. Does that make sense? Yeah. So what we have to do is start with medication so that you feel more energy and then you use that shield or the artificial energy boost of. medication to start to do other things that are going to lead to more long-term healing. You good with that?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Now we're going to talk about other things. So then, okay, so this is fine. But is your problem restricted to physical and energetic stuff? No. Where does C PTSD go?

And we'll explain what that is in a second. Where do you think CPTSD fits on the left? Like, emotional? Absolutely. Okay. So let's explain what C-P-T-SD is. Can you tell us what it means? Complex PTSD. And what makes something complex PTSD versus regular PTSD? An event that continuously happens over a period of time rather than just one event. Excellent. So let's say that, you know, I'm walking down the street and I walk past some of the riots that are going on.

And a police officer shoots a rubber bullet and I'm carrying my groceries. which actually happened to a lady, and the bullet hits me in the face, and even people have lost eyes and stuff. So that's a one-time event that leads to post-traumatic stress disorder. All you need is a single event to end up with post-traumatic stress disorder. Post-traumatic stress disorder affects people in particular ways. It's characterized by flashbacks, nightmares, things like that,

but their intrinsic sense of self is not necessarily destroyed by a singular event. Because if I walk down the street and like I'm Dr. Kay and I'm like, I feel confident in who I am as a human being and something chromatic happens to me, that's terrible and it could be destroy me as a human being. But it doesn't have to destroy me as a human being. What complex PTSD is is when trauma happens to you over and over and over and over again. So when William tells us that he is an eight-year-old boy who is screaming at his mom to stop and banging his head against a wall and she continues. to yell at him for an hour and a half. And that shit happens day after day after day after day. That is a whole different ballgame from being like shot once or being robbed or being raped or whatever.

That's complex PTSD. Okay. So now let's think about what are the treatments of complex PTSD. What do you think medication is going to do for that? It just gives you this temporary buff that we talk to. about like right so that's kind of like talking for emotions talking like acting at like acting on an emotional level for a physical problem only gives you like one point of healing does that make sense and so medication for an emotional problem only gives you one point of healing does that

make sense yeah yeah so i i want uh could i add something out as well sure um so i i think what we tried to cure was like regular PTSD, so to say, with my psychologist. And that's why I guess it caused so much confusion why I'm still feeling as I did and stuff like that. Excellent. So you're, you took, you took the next part right out of my mouth. The real truth is that complex PTSD doesn't go here. It goes here. And this is where PTSD goes. Because with what complex PTSD, what happens is that your sense of a human being gets fucked. That's a spiritual problem. This goes back to ghost.

Why am I here? Right? That's not emotions. Do I deserve to live? Does that make sense? Like, that's not an emotional issue. That's like a spiritual issue. what do you think about that

huh yeah yeah it makes totally sense because it's uh i mean it didn't really help me exactly so this is why talk therapy is going to be one plus two plus or three pluses what do you think yeah it makes sense one plus right so your psychologist can help you here if you had regular PTSD but the psychologist is only going to be a one plus over here. And this is the biggest problem that I think,

actually your psychologist can't help you with three pluses, but they have to do that kind of work. So this is the biggest problem that I see with like a lot of quote unquote mental health diagnosis is that like, so the reason that I'm an effective psychiatrist is because I actually don't do a whole lot of psychiatry. What I do is a lot of spiritual work because I think people like you, when I said that at the core of your problem, Will, or William, is that like you don't even know if you deserve to live. So we can deal with the suicidality and the negative emotions and shame and all that shit.

All of that stuff is over here, right? So this is shame, you know, feels bad man, right? That's all emotional stuff. And now we get to another problem, which is that you're an analytical guy. So what you try to do is essentially like, like you use analytical. treatments for emotional problems, and this is the worst, is that when you ask yourself, like you have this feeling of being a ghost, right? And then what happens is you start asking yourself questions about do I deserve to be here?

You start to use your analytical mind to solve a spiritual problem. And that doesn't actually get you shit or maybe one plus. Does that make sense? I guess this is the reason why I can't really listen to it as well. like the emotions as I feel what do you mean say more about that so like I try to listen to my emotions why am I feeling sad and shit right now

but it's more like a constant noise and it's it's more because it's on the spiritual level rather than the emotional or either one so your analytical an analytical approach to your emotions is going to get you even if it's emotional the analytical approach is not going to help very much And if it's spiritual, it's not going to help very much.

The whole reason that people like you have trouble getting fully healed is because your treatments do not line up with the sources of your problems. Right. For a physical problem, you need a physical treatment. For an energetic problem, you need an energetic treatment. For an emotional problem, you need talk therapy. For complex PTSD, you need to figure out why am I here and how do I deserve to live. That's not going to happen to through talk therapy. That's going to happen through something like meditation, right?

And how does meditation help? You have to sit and you have to feel that you, like, it's kind of hard to describe. Or happiness in a relationship, right? So during the good years with your girlfriend, because where does happiness in a relationship go here? It's not just emotional. Maybe it's emotional, right? So maybe it goes over here too. I'm not really sure.

Okay. But the key thing is that I think when you were happy in the relationship, the reason that you felt more human and less of a ghost, the reason you saw the world in color is because she gave you a sense of belonging. What do you think about that? No, for sure, for sure. And so what happened is she answered this question for you. Do I deserve to live? And the way that she interacted with you as a human being made you think that the answer is yes. And as the relationship declined, your sense of deserving to live was still young and fragile.

So two years of a relationship with a shy girl who doesn't understand quite as much about life as, let's say, someone else does, could not strengthen you enough. She couldn't do, in two years of loving you and making you feel like you belong, she could not undo 22 years of emotional damage and complex PTSD, which makes you feel. perfect fucking sense, right? And then when when the relationship goes sour, it's not enough. And so can you be fully healed? Absolutely. Now I feel confident because I've talked myself into it and I've convinced myself. And the way that you get fully healed is that you do this. And this kind of goes back to earlier when I was saying, okay, like it actually like you have lots of different problems. Absolutely. And so fully healed doesn't come from medication. It comes from. It comes from all of this shit because you have shit going on on every part of your being.

Right? The only thing that I'm not sure is it doesn't sound like you have an intellectual problem. What is that exactly? So I don't hear like strong cognitive biases about the way that you view yourself. Right. So like some of the people that I talk to, like a good example of this like a couple weeks ago, we interviewed Sweet Anita. And Sweet Anita felt like she doesn't deserve to like take care of herself.

So cognitive bias goes over here. Oh, I guess I've worked a lot on that part. Absolutely. And that's why I don't think we see it. Because you did CBT or psychologist. Yeah. Right? Self compassion helped a lot, extremely a lot.

And meditation helped a lot in that part too. Yep. I would say. Right. So the cognitive, so let's just think about this. So in emotion creates a cognitive bias. Does this make sense? Like the emotion is on the emotional level, and then you feel like you're a piece of shit.

And then your analytical mind creates justifications for why you're a piece of shit. But that's a separate part of your mind. And you can use self-compassion. Sorry, guys, this is getting messy. So self-compassion is going to target this. And CBT, which is cognitive behavioral therapy, is going to target the analytical construction based on the root of your negative emotion. Do that make sense? Yeah.

Okay. Questions? You wrote meditation at the spiritual. It's any kind of general meditation or what? No. I have been meditating for quite a while. Yep. So you need to do meditations that are geared towards discovering your sense of self.

So this is, because like this, people call this meditation too. Self-compassion like metta meditation is over here. So that's like self-compassion level, like loving kindness meditation. Yeah. Right? So there are lots of different kinds of meditation. And they work on different levels. There are also some meditations like I'll ask people to do investigative meditations.

Like what is the sound of the breath? That's like kind of an intellectual meditation. So you need to do like, who am I? And in particular, there are a few powerful mantras that will help you answer this. question. Okay. But that's the kind of... I'll teach you something today. I just got to think about this. The first thing that I need to do is check in with you, though. Does this make sense? It makes a lot of sense.

Yeah, I'm actually really happy to actually even see it in picture and then and noticing and seeing the parts like, because I believe I've come really far away even in these like 21 years, even though I have like aimlessly gone somewhere, I think it still learned me something along the way. And it makes sense when adding everything. Because yeah, maybe it's more like all these sections I have to work on. And there's like one last piece I haven't, which I guess is like the spiritual, which I haven't really dealt with.

So yeah, it actually makes much sense. And yeah. And so here's why I think your hopelessness is completely understandable. Because when you have complex PTSD and you go to a professional and they give you a medication, that's not going to work. And so basically the basic problem that I think the reason that you're hopeless, and it's not your fault, I think you've actually done remarkably well given the hand that you were dealt. It's actually fucking amazing.

Is that you're like all of your treatments are like all over the place. You're trying to solve stuff with some koshas from like other koshas. And so your effect size, it's going to be kind of like you're, you know, I'm continuously like trying to heal your right arm, even though the damage is in your left leg. And the issue is that you get a little bit of bandwidth. You get a little bit from here. You get a little bit from here. And then over time, though, it feels like that's not really working because you're not

targeting your treatments towards what you've done. Or actually, that's not even entirely true. because I think you've actually like because you had problems here and here too. It's just you've done, you've actually found good treatments, right? So you had emotional feelings of, and this is

exactly why it's beautiful. So you had emotional feelings of shame and then you say self-compassion helped with that. And this is the mistake, this is the diagnostic mistake that people make. When someone has complex PTSD and they're filled with shame and they get treated with self-compassion,

they think they are fixed. But they're not fixed because they never got to this. Hmm. Right? And so then you get hopeless because you said, okay, I have complex PTSD. I have all these negative emotions. I learn self-compassion and I'm not fixed. And then hopelessness is completely reasonable because complex PTSD.

You thought you did the treatment for complex PTSD. And you're not better. And so then you're hopeless. Absolutely, man. You should be hopeless because you thought you did what you needed to do and you did a lot which you can tell us and you're like, hey, I actually grew a lot there. Hey, the medication is actually really helping.

And you're not fully healed. And so then your question is beautiful. Now we come back to your original question. Can I become fully healed? And it's completely reasonable for you to ask that question because you did this and you did this. And you talked to a psychologist. And you found yourself not being fully healed.

Yeah. And then you start to question. You're like, if I talk to the psychologist more, if I add on more medications or if I learn more self-compassion, will I be fully healed? And the thing is, you actually know the answer to that, Will. And the answer is no, you're not going to be fully healed. Not from that. Yeah. And so I feel like this picture and the overview, it feels like it can capture kind of any problem, I guess. And absolutely. Like it's an overview of everything, basically.

Yes. And this is what the yogis learn. They said that a human being can be. divided into these five layers and that an attack on one layer deserves a treatment on that same layer and that a strong gosha or one strong layer can buffer or protect you from other layers. So when I deal with people with cancer, right, that's a gigantic attack on the physical and the energetic. And if they are deeply spiritual people and have a lot of emotional support, they, they do way better. When your grandmother,

so grief is an emotional attack, right? It's a different calling. So grief attacks you here. And so when that happens, your physical, it almost reverberates. So you get energetic damage and you get physical damage. And there are studies that show that if someone loses a loved one and I give them a vaccine, their immune response to the vaccine is lower. Essentially, vaccines become ineffective in people who are in grief. And that's a physical effect based on an emotional

insult. It's an energetic effect based on an emotional insult. When you go to see your grandmother and she's not there on the inside, that's an emotional blow which contributes to your sluggishness. Do you see that? And so it's all connected. And so the cool thing is that you can strengthen one area and it'll kind of protect you from the others. And that's how like people, this is where resilience comes from.

So somewhere in here, William, I think you're actually very strong intellectually. And that has basically been like how you stay alive. Because you've been emotionally fucked. You've been, I don't know if like you're physically active or whatever. Maybe you're strong physically as well. But like spiritually, like, you know, you've something's been missing. And you've just basically, your intellect has been like carrying the rest of your sheaths.

And that's why you're alive. Because somewhere in there, there's something here that is like, you know, keeping you going. Okay. Final questions, thoughts? No, I'm actually really, really happy and glad. Cool. Yeah, I didn't expect too much because I felt very hopeless and stuff. And I didn't expect you to even have an answer and stuff like that. Yeah, well, sometimes I surprise myself.

It's, yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, I mean, I don't think I can fix you, but I can give you this. So now, let me just think about meditation. I'm glad that I've given you some hope. Which was not my intention and for which I apologize. Yeah. Other than that, I don't know. No.

Okay. So now the question is, I feel like, okay, so I feel like that's sort of enough, but I also feel like I should give you the first step in the meditation practice for how you discover whether you deserve to be here. Okay. So I have a good answer. I have the technique that I think you eventually need. I just don't know if you're ready for it. And I think the technique, what you need.

So I very rarely feel this way, but sometimes I'm inspired to give someone a mantra. But a mantra or mantra is something that's usually given in a very specific way. And I feel like I know that. So sometimes when I work with people, I feel this inner sort of inspiration that this mantra is going to help this person. I just don't know if you're ready for it yet. So let me just think about this. And let me think about the prospect of giving a mantra over the internet

and giving it to people who are not ready for you. I just have to think through this. What is that that holds it? Is it because of not enough meditation experience or what is it that is holding that back? I don't know if you're capable of understanding the mantra yet because I just don't know where you are spiritually. There's a part of me that says that you're ready for it

and just go for it. But I have to just think about whether I can come up with something else that is... We'll do the trick. Hold on. I'm going to need a minute, okay? Yeah. No worries. Okay, we'll try this.

I'm not going to... I'm going to ask you a couple questions, then we'll just see where this goes. I don't know where this is going. So, I'm giving you... Okay, so if we ever... You know, if we ever had the opportunity to meet in person, William, I'm going to teach you a mantra on that day. But if we never meet that, then someone else will show up and they'll teach you what you need to know. So I want you to sit up straight.

You're tall, right? No, no, no, no. You're not? Okay, you look tall. No. So whatever. Okay, so just sit. Okay, so sit up straight, round out your shoulders, pull them back a little bit. Good. Okay. Close your eyes. And I want you to feel your hands. Just feel the presence of your hands. I'm going to ask you a couple of questions, okay? So now hold one of your hands up in front of your face and look at it. Just look at it for a second.

Okay. And I want you to, I'm going to ask you a question, is that you? What do you think? Yeah, I mean, it's a container of me, yeah. It's a container of you. Yes. But it's not you. Right?

So put your hand down, close your eyes. So now let me ask you something. If I have a container that has, let's say I have a box and in the box is bread. Is the box the same thing as the bread? No. Okay. So now I'll ask you again, or let's just reflect for a moment. So feel your hands.

and don't touch your hands. Just keep them palm face up in your lap. So kind of like this, people are watching, right? So just keep them palm face up. Okay, or what you can do is lay your right palm on top of your left palm. Actually do this. Lay your right palm on top of your left palm and sort of like a circle and let it sit in your lap.

Let your hands rest in your lap. And I want you to ask yourself the question, are these are my hands me actually separate your hands place them on your lap and then ask yourself is this me like are you your hands what do you think i mean i would say no okay so then eyes closed good yeah now put your hands together your right hand on top of your left hand let your thumbs touch so you're doing this yeah okay so you're you're basically doing this Yeah. Okay. So now I'm going to ask you kind of a weird question. Absolutely a leading question. So don't get led. Just really pay attention to yourself. When your hands are together and you form that circuit, do you feel like there are more of you? Yes. It's fucking weird, right? Yeah. I mean, I think it's the posture with the arms that does it a lot. Like, I'm widening myself now. Yeah. Absolutely. So now like, now, now,

Now here's your question, okay? So what the fuck is that? Like, that's just fucking weird. How does your sense of your body being closer to you have anything to do with the position of your hands? I mean, it felt like I just took more space. And yeah, you're right. It's just weird, right?

Like, it's weird. So now here's the question. So now close your eyes. hands part, feel the disconnection of you, feel that you are not your hands. Okay, and now I want to, so now bring a hand up in front of you, look at it, and look at it. Now, is the hand that you see or you or less you or the same amount of you is when you are closing your eyes and your two hands are in your lap? maybe even less yeah it's fucking weird

so I'd answer but like you're going on your feeling right you're not telling me what I want to hear maybe no I was trying to feel what I felt on the other arm like I was comparing what I saw and I was comparing what I still had my other arm on the lap so I was referring to those points yeah that's brilliant that's good good innovation

okay okay so like now I'm going to ask you questions now we're going to reflect Okay. So like, what are you feeling closer to and further away from? What's that? Because you've got a sense of something, right? It's like furthest here. Yeah. Closer in your lap and even closer when they're together. Yeah. It's like it's a quite weird posture as well. Yep. But what is the thing that you are getting closer to when you do these three things? Like, like, like, like. myself, if I can explain it. Yeah. So what is that? You're not supposed to answer. You're not supposed to answer. So now, William, we, so the first meditated practice is that I want you to become familiar with this thing.

So do this practice so you can look at your, and you're already doing it right, because it's good that you're making a comparison. So, you know, you can look at your hand or you can look at your face in the mirror and then you can close your eyes and then try to just, I, I don't know how else to put this, but like move on. So there's like, I want you to imagine a road where like the regular world is over here in that sense of Eunice is over here. I want you to don't even necessarily try to find what is over here. Just learn how to move back and forth between them. Right.

So there's this, there's this, and there's this. So you can do, and you can do it by looking at yourself in the mirror. You can close your eyes in front of a mirror and just kind of be in front of it. And then you can do this and sit up straight and then feel that closeness to you. When you say learn, you mean learn to have this feeling without doing that? No. I'm saying that just become familiar with the weird idea that you can come closer. Just move further and closer away from yourself and get familiar with that rumped.

Okay. Okay. And now I'm going to ask you, so now sit up straight. Yeah. Can you sit with your legs crossed? They are, yeah. Oh, oh, yeah. Sorry.

Like this? Yes. Excellent. Now, next thing is can you put your right heel on top of your left thigh? Can you sit like this? Or can you can't do that from a flexibility standpoint. Don't work. Don't worry. I can. Okay. Now, I have your other leg down, right? Yeah, my foot's down here. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, don't worry. Yeah. So now I want you to sit like this. Okay. Also the thumbs touching each other. Yeah. Yeah.

And now, so relax and now feel, do you feel closer to yourself again? Yeah, it feels like, it feels like another part is attached. Like it's more in the below as well, yeah. Yep, good. Yeah. Okay. So now I'm going to ask you the question, William. Does this person, does what you feel deserve to be able to?

I don't know. Yes. That's the right answer. Okay. So now this is your practice. Okay, so you can just sit with this person that you are, and you're right that it feels more attached. It's cool. I'm glad I think you're doing it right.

So if you guys are wondering how the yogis came up with the yoga postures, this is how they did it. This is where muddras come from. It's because they're able to detect certain things about the self, for lack of a better term, that facilitates connection to the That's why meditated postures. This is the posture, by the way, that Buddha and Shiva, you know Shiva is? Like he's like one of the Hindu gods. So Shiva and Buddha use this posture.

This, this. It's called Bhairava Mudra, which means fierce or terrifying. This is actually what this mudra is means. And that's the translation, Bhairava. So it's a mudra of intensity because it brings you very intensely to yourself. and it's also kind of like severe and it can be scary and terrifying. But yeah, if you're feeling more attached, that's good. You're doing it right.

So you just play around with this man. That's all you got to do. And try to find out, just try to get in a hang out. You don't even have to find out who you are or anything like that. Occasionally, I want you to ask the question about whether this person deserves to be here. But you don't have to, you're not necessarily looking for an answer. I don't want you to figure out who you are any fucking, you know, yoga, calendar spiritual stuff, don't worry about any of that. I just want you to hang out with that dude

for a while. Do the practice. I would say if you want to sit, if you can sit for like, you know, I tell people to start with three to five minutes and you've done a remarkable amount of connection in like less than 60 seconds. So the quality of meditation is more important than the quantity of time that you meditate. The reason that quantity of time is important is because you want to train yourself for having high quality meditation on a more often basis. But 60 seconds of what you did is actually fine. If you can get there. Do you know what I mean by get there? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So if you can get there, great. And then ideally you want to do this like 15 to 20 minutes, like at least three days a week, ideally even every day or five days a week or six days a week.

And just hang out with yourself. And then, you know, one day we'll meet in person, I hope. Or someone else will meet. And if you've been doing this practice diligently, I'm going to be able to tell. And if I can tell, I'm going to give you a mantra. Oh, cool. And I mean about you can tell, though? It's the same way that I, because here's the thing, William. I don't know if you've done this before, if you've noticed this before. But sometimes I teach people to meditate and they have these weird experiences.

And then everyone at home is like, I don't know what the fuck this guy is talking about. So like, I don't know how I know how to ask you questions and teach you practices. that are going to help you understand something about yourself. But I just know. And sometimes based on the way that you answer me, I can tell that you're doing it right or you're doing it wrong. Because what I'm asking you to do, because your words cannot translate your experience.

So when you say that crossing your legs makes you feel more attached, I know you're doing it right. I don't even know what the fuck that means, but I know it is similar to like what I feel. And it's the whole reason that I asked you to do it. the reason I asked you to sit that way is because I wanted you to feel more attached. But I didn't know what to call that. And that looks like it's our time.

Okay. All right. So any last questions? No. I don't think so. Okay. Say good luck to William. You're going to say good luck to William?

No. No luck for William. Okay. Sorry, one. Yeah. That's fine. All right, dude, seriously, though, thank you very much for coming on. You know, I think you can absolutely get healed, man.

I think I should be the one thanking you, really. Really. Yeah. Well, I'm glad it's helpful and, you know, sorry for being, well, you're welcome. And, you know, sorry for being general, but don't give up hope because I really think you can. Yeah. I think you can get there. Okay?

Yeah. Take care, man. Thanks. Take care. Bye-bye. okay all right so

let's do okay so hopefully that made sense guys I don't know and if for those of you that meditation didn't work don't worry about it we teach a lot of different things

um uh okay so um I just want to go ahead and yeah so can I say

Can you get going now? Can I finish talking? No. It's really distracting. I'm having trouble getting my groove. Can't give me some space? No. Okay.

I don't even know if you understand what I'm doing, but okay. You want to sit in my lap? That's fine. Can I have a kiss? No. Okay. All right. So let me just, uh...

All right. So guys, let me explain something to y'all, okay? Um, so that, you know, what, when you guys, like, when we were doing fundraising, like, part of what we want to do is map out some of this stuff like bunch gosha theory for you guys so that you can make it more excessive. What are you doing? I can't, I'm trying to wrap up with them. And I've got a spiel and I have to collect my thoughts. And if you're threatening me with your tongue and your finger, then I can't do that. No. Go. Get out of here. Go. I think she understands that you guys are watching. Okay, so, yeah, so punch course theory is very, very helpful, and I highly, highly, you know, I don't know how you guys would be able to do that, but, you know, it's something that we want to teach a little bit more comprehensively. It's really hard to just, like, sit and lecture about it.

You're just... So we're working on how to make that information more accessible to you guys. A couple of other things. So, you know, we've got, I think we're still figuring out what we're doing on Wednesday. We've got J.D. and on Friday. On Wednesday, our coaching platform launches. So thank you very much for all of your support. And so we've also got, you know, if you guys want to follow us on circle media and things like that and see posts about, you know, various things that we're working on, y'all can use exclamation point circles.

and we have a lot of people that we want to thank, but I think we may just go ahead and do that. Actually, yeah, we'll do that next time because we're over time and I've got to run. LifeLock, how can I help? The IRS said I filed my return, but I haven't. One in four taxpaying Americans has paid the price of identity fraud. What do I do? My refund, though.

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